Participants Adam B. Levine (ABL) - Host Andreas M. Antonopoulos (AMA) - Co-Host Stephanie R. Murphy (SRM) - Co-Host e!!

Coleman ( "C) - #uest. Bitcoin Alliance o! Canada se$ment starts at %&'(% ABL: )he date is une* +,* +-%.. )his is episode %/ o! Let0s )al1 Bitcoin2 Ma1in$ it up as you $o. Comin$ up on today0s sho32 -Stephanie0s Bac1 !rom Porc!est4 She tells us all a5out it* ever heard o! a 6oven Bacon Sand3ich7 8ou 3ill today. -Listener Mail' 9pen #arden availa5ility* and the various options on the mar1et !or cold stora$e -: sit do3n 3ith e!! Coleman !rom the Bitcoin Alliance o! Canada !or an interestin$ i! tiny discussion o! the M5it* 3hat is it* 3hy it0s important* and 3hy you mi$ht 3ant to chan$e your 3allet ri$ht no3 to use it. -)hen 3e0ve $ot a tri!ecta o! stories a5out various $overnmental or$ani;ations declarin$ thin$s a5out technolo$y they don0t seem to understand. -6e tal1 a5out the apparently racist history o! marria$e licenses and the !irst sei;ure o! 5itcoins 5y the <=A

:! your ne3 to 5itcoin chec1 out letstal15itcoin.com>learn to 5e directed to the 5itcoin education pro?ect i! you li1e 3hat 3ere doin$ please revie3 us on itunes or your pre!erred podcast plat!orm. )his helps others !ind the sho3 5ut ?ust $enerally 3e really appreciate it. 6e do a hour lon$ sho3 t3ice a 3ee1* that0s a lot o! content* and it can 5e over3helmin$ to ne3er listeners. :@m eAcited to announce a 5rand ne3 tool to help share the sho3 called $ivepodcast.com. Bsin$ your phone* ?ust ta1e a screen shot o! the podcast player at the time you 3ant to share* email the ima$e to clipC$ivepodcast.com 3ith the description and the su5?ect and the email address o! the !riend you0d li1e to send it to. )his service $ra5s a %- minute clip o! the sho3 startin$ !rom the time indicated 5y the screen shot* posts it* and emails it to your !riend in a nice clean !ormat. )his is an eAperiment* please $ive it a try and tell us 3hat you thin1.

Hi* and 3elcome to lets tal1 5itcoin* a t3ice-3ee1ly sho3 a5out 5itcoin* crypto-currencies* and the !uture o! money. :! your 5rand ne3 to 5itcoin* please visit letstal15itcoin.com>learn to 5e directed to the 5itcoin education pro?ect 3here you can !ind !ree classes and lectures that can turn you !rom

5rand ne3 to eApert in no time !lat. My name is Adam B. Levine* :@m a 3riter and spea1er 3ho li1es to tal1 a5out complicated topics in understanda5le terms. Money is a5stract* and crypto currencies don@t help 3ith that pro5lem* 5ut do you 1no3 3hat does7 <iscussion and loo1in$ at the situation throu$h many eyes. oinin$ me !or that discussion is Andreas M. Antonopoulos an eApert in decentrali;ed net3or1s and system security.

AMA' Hello. ABL' <r. Stephanie Murphy is a scientist and a syndicated radio host. SRM' Hi. ABL' )here0s lots on the doc1et today on lets tal1 5itcoin. Stephanie* you0ve 5een a3ay !or the last 3ee1. 6e 3ere runnin$ pre-recorded sho3s last 3ee1 5ecause you 3ere at Porc!est. 6hich is a li5erty orient event. Can you tell us a little 5it a5out it7 SRM' 8eah* !or any5ody 3ho is 3onderin$ a5out the name* its short !or the porcupine !ruit !estival. )he reason it@s called that is 5ecause it@s an event that@s put on 5y the prestate pro?ect 3hich 3e0ve tal1ed a5out on this sho3 5e!ore. )he prestate pro?ect is a movement o! li5erty lovin$ people to move to De3 Hampshire and $et active !or !reedom in 3hatever 3ay it means to them. )he !reestate pro?ect puts on a couple o! events a year and one o! them is Porc!est 3hich is a campin$ !estival. Porc!est is held in northern De3 Hampshire* a 5eauti!ul area 3ith 3hite mountains. 6hen you thin1 campin$ and in the middle o! the 3oods your thin1in$2 3ell* ho3s 5itcoin $oin$ to 3or1 there 5ecause the internet doesn0t seem to 5e too relia5le and it 3asn0t. )he camp$round@s mea$er internet connection $ot totally !looded 5y the second day o! Porc!est 3hen people start to actually $et there. But* !ortunately there 3as a 5itcoin only 3i!i net3or1 that some 5itcoiners 5rou$ht* 5itinstant actually 5rou$ht the 5itcoin only 3i!i net3or1. )he net3or1 helps people do 5itcoin transactions so that they could connect 3ith their phones or computers to di!!erent 5itcoin 3e5sites* 3allets* 3e5 3allets* the 5itcoin client electrum and Etclient and so !orth. Bitcoin 3as hoppin$ at Porc!est* even in the middle o! the 3oods. 8ou $o to Porc!est and there0s an order o! may5e %&-people campin$ at this one camp$round and all o! them are sel! identi!ied as li5ertarians or li5erty lovers or !reedom enthusiasts* 3hatever you 3ant to call it. :@m not tal1in$ a5out the li5ertarians as the political party* : am tal1in$ a5out people 3hom support human !reedom. )here are tal1s and speeches* dance parties* all 1inds o! stu!!. : tau$ht a yo$a class and : 3as helpin$ run the !irst aid tent* in 3hich 3e had volunteers 3ho provided voluntary !irst aid to people 3ho needed it in the 3oods. 6e also provided preventative stu!! li1e2 5u$s spray* tic1 removers* sunscreen* and all 1inds o! $oodies. )hat@s 3hats its li1e and you 3al1 around this camp$round and there0s this place called the A$ora Falley 3hich is a ro3 o! campsites 3ith people sellin$ stu!! and people displayin$ their various pro?ects and havin$ 5ooths that are associated 3ith their pro?ects and in A$ora valley* it 3as !ull o! 5itcoin stu!! and : mean 5asically* :0ve 5een $oin$ to Porc!est !or many years* every year : have a 5last and love it. But in the past :0ve noticed that people 3ho $o this event are really into

alternative currencies and in the past they 3ere usin$ a lot o! silver rounds to trade* to 5uy !ood or tshirts* or 3hatever they 3anted to 5uy that 3ee1. So there 3ere lots o! di!!erent silver rounds circulatin$ in the past* even some copper rounds. But this year* there 3as so much less silver and copper* and so much more 5itcoin. :t 3as ?ust really interestin$ to see 5ecause people seemed to 5e ditchin$ these physical metals in !avor o! 5itcoin. Dot every5ody has cellphone service up there in the middle o! the 3oods* 5ut veri;on users 3ere a5le to connect to .# and some people had this App called 9pen #arden 3hich is a mesh net3or1in$ App 3hich allo3s you to connect to the internet throu$h other people@s devices and 3e0ve tal1ed a5out mesh net3or1in$ on the sho3. So that 3as helpin$ some people $et online and there 3as o!! course this 5itcoin only 3i!i that 3as helpin$ people out 3ith 5itcoin transactions. So : didn0t even see any physical 5itcoins the 3hole time : 3as there* it 3as only people sendin$ 5itcoins to one another it seemed to 3or1 out really 3ell. :t al3ays is a !ascinatin$ culture 3hen people come to$ether !or Porc!est* 5ecause li5ertarians have a reputation !or 5ein$ a little 3ac1y and its a very color!ul $roup o! people. :t@s %&-- people* yet everyone comes to$ether and it 3ent pretty smoothly. : 3as runnin$ the !irst aid tent* 3e didn0t have any serious in?uries* 3e 3ere there !or a lot o! people 3ho had minor thin$s* and that 3as nice to have volunteers 3ho 3ere helpin$ out 3ith that. But the people there 3ere also very $enerous and $ave us 5itcoin tips and cash donations to cover the costs o! the supplies - state supplies 3e provided* stu!! li1e that. A couple o! people reco$ni;ed me !rom lets tal1 5itcoin* that 3as cool. : remem5er last year at Porc!est* 5itcoin 3as ?ust startin$ to come out on the scene* actually !unny story -- : tal1ed to a $uy 3ho 3as a !riend o! mine* and he said that t3o years 5e!ore Porc!est* he 3as minin$ 5itcoins* and he 3as minin$ a5out a 5loc1 a day 3ith his pentium ( on a cpu. GLau$hterG . He 3as $ettin$ &- 5itcoins a day eventually he 3as li1e : don0t 1no3 i! this is 3orth the electricity and he stopped 5ut he had those 5itcoins stoc1ed up and no3 hes really $lad he saved them. Do3 hes sEuirrelin$ them a3ay on paper 3allets* so there 3ere a lot o! 5itcoin early-early-early adopters there and people 3ho 3ere really eAcited a5out 5itcoin. : remem5er last year at Porc!est* Mandra1e has a 5usiness called #eor$ia0s !amous 5a1lava and they don0t ?ust sell 5a1lava they sell you all 1inds o! !ood 5ut they 3ere doin$ !ood vendin$ in the pavilion* 3hich is one o! the main areas o! Porc!est. Last year he 3as sellin$ these sand3iches called a train-3rec1 and its 5asically 5acon 3eaved to$ether into a mat* so he literally 3eaves the 5acon. 9n top o! that* you can put all di!!erent thin$s li1e2 $yro meat* ve$eta5les2 li1e lettuce tomatoes onions and sauce. :ts really very $ood 5ut he 3as sellin$ those !or a5out % 5itcoin last year 3hen they 3ere 3orth a little over H dollars. He hun$ on to those 5itcoins and no3 thats a %%- dollar sand3ich. )his year he did the same thin$* !ood vendin$ and did a lot o! 5itcoin transactions. )here 3ere IR codes every3here* there 3as a computer screen 3ith a IR code 3here you could pay !or any 1ind o! !ood you 3anted2 a train3rec1* a train-3rec1 omelet* all 1inds o! stu!!. )hey had a really pro!essional setup. : thin1 he did a couple hundred 5itcoin transactions* not a couple hundred 5itcoins 3orth o! sales* 5ut a couple hundred transactions. So : thin1 5itcoin 3as tremendously success!ul and really interestin$ly* in this environment that0s in the middle o! the 3oods. : 3as ?ust !ascinated 5y that 5ecause it sho3s that 5itcoin can 3or1 any3here i! people are interested and have the drive to do so.

ABL' So : have a couple o! Euestions here. :! 5itcoin 3as 5ein$ used as a primary !orm o! payment*

one o! the thin$s people tal1 a5out a lot* even in conteAt o! a city 3here there0s lots o! internet connectivity* is the relative slo3 speed o! con!irmin$ transactions and ho3 that0s not very conducive o! retail eAperience. 6here you 3ant to 5uy somethin$* and you can ?ust hand ?ust hand them the money* instead you have to hand them the money and then they have to 3ait & minutes in order !or a con!irmation to come 5ac1. 6as there any 1ind o! pro5lem 3ith that* that you ran into 3as it even somethin$ that people considered or tal1ed a5out7

SRM' : didn0t hear any5ody 3ho 3as 3orried a5out that. : did 5uy a couple thin$s 3ith 5itcoin 3hile : 3as at Porc!est* the merchant 3ould al3ays see the transaction pop up ri$ht a3ay and then they 3ould trust it* it 3as usually people that : 1ne3 or at least 3e 3eren@t $oin$ any3here* 3e 3ere at the same camp$rounds. AMA' Ri$ht. SRM' So its not li1e as i! : 3al1ed out o! a retail store* a little di!!erent in that respect. )here 3as a Lamasue machine that came to Porc!est they had revolution co!!ee setup and they had they had the Lamasue machine at the co!!ee shop 3here they 3ere in a little tent site in the middle o! the 3oods ABL' Could you remind our listeners 3hat the Lamasue does > is7 SRM' 8eah* a5solutely. )he Lamasue machine is a 5itcoin vendin$ machine and it 3as invented 5y a couple o! $uys 3ho : 1no3 in De3 Hampshire2 Matt 6oodloc1* osh* and Jach Harvey and they developed this device 3hich is really cool. 8ou hold a IR code to it and you say2 o1ay : 3ant to send some 5itcoins here* so you can hold up your phone or a piece o! paper or a card or 3hatever and then you !eed cash into the machine* it reco$ni;es the cash and then it 3ill send 5itcoins to the address that you speci!ied* you can0t $et cash out o! the machine 5ut you can chan$e cash into 5itcoins and 3hy 3ould you 3ant to do that any3ay. GLau$hterG. So* that 3as 3or1in$ out in the middle o! the 3oods* most o! the time the internet 3as !ine !or that machine to 3or1 it didn0t seem to have a pro5lem 3ith the con!irmations. : don0t thin1 anyone 3as really payin$ too much attention to that. ABL' My understandin$ o! ho3 5itcoin 3as 3or1in$ there* 3as you said* 5itinstant provided essentially a up lin1. SRM' 8es. ABL' 8eah* and there 3as 3i!i there* so. :0ve 5een havin$ this conversation on and o!! 3ith a !e3 people. A situation li1e that* 3here there is only one essentially 3ay out isn0t it possi5le !or a 5ad actor to essentially sit on that line and 5e a5le to read transactions comin$ in* and pre-send them 5e!ore they $o out7 Aren@t there potential security implications !rom only havin$ one 3ay out to the 5roader net3or1.

AMA' :! you can 5ecome the only node that provides in!ormation a5out the 5loc1chain* the only node that can 5e contacted* either 5y 5loc1in$ out other nodes or e!!ectively 5y spoo!in$ other nodes you could potentially mislead the entire Porc!est community to $o on a !or1ed 5loc1 chain that 3as not related to the real 5loc1chain and then dou5le spend everythin$ on the real 5loc1chain or on the ma?ority consensus 5loc1chain* : should say. =ssentially* you could create a locali;ed illusion and then dou5le spend that on the main 5loc1chain 5ut it 3ould ta1e Euite a lot o! 3or1 to do somethin$ li1e that. 9ne o! the $ood thin$s a5out Porc!est and that particular community is that almost everyone there 3ould pro5a5ly have access to $uns* soK GLau$hterG. SRM' : don0t 1no3 i! that0s a $ood thin$* 5ut there 3ere some people 3ith $uns. May5e an element o! social-ostracism i! some5ody 3as actually doin$ somethin$ malicious and 3as !ound out. : do have a Euic1 correction thou$h* it 3as not 5itinstant that provided the 5itcoin-only 3i!i it 3as actually Lamasue. My 5ad* : $ot that miAed up. AMA' So i! they are the primary source o! 5itcoin and actually ta1en !iat in the meantime* it 3ould really 5e 5ad !or their reputation to try to dou5le spend that. : thin1 that0s a $ood com5ination* it outlines their motives. But a$ain* this is a really minor use case or possi5ility* it 3ould ta1e a lot really hard 3or1 to pull somethin$ li1e that o!!.

ABL' And it relies on you 5ein$ really remote too. :t relies on you havin$ so !e3 connections out* that you 3ould have to have only one or t3o. AMA' 8ou suspect that no-one can $o on the Feri;on .# net3or1 that you said 3as there !or eAample and !i$urin$ out that the transactions aren@t $oin$ throu$h as they should 5e $oin$ so that 3ould 5e a 5it di!!icult althou$h you can spoo! cell to3ers. : thin1 the 5ottom line 3ith these thin$s is that its a rather remote possi5ility and 3ould 5e !ound out relatively Euic1ly.

SRM' : can ?ust picture the horror movie trailer no32 out in the middle o! the 3oods* a 5unch o! anarchists 3ith no internet* some5ody tries to do a dou5lespend 5ut Euic1ly !ound out. GLau$hterG AMA' 8eah* eAactly. SRM' 6e sa3 actually a lot o! 5itcoin 5usinesses 3ho 3ere tryin$ to esta5lish their reputation or maintain $ood 3ill 3ith the community. =ri1 Foorhees 3as there !rom coinapult* he actually sponsored a dance party on Saturday ni$ht 3here he 3as < in$ and that 3as a lot o! !un. )here 3as the 5it tent that 3as sponsored 5y some 5itcoin 5usinesses. )here 3as a hu$e 5itcoin presence and : thin1 its only $oin$ to $ro3 at Porc!est !rom no3 on. :t 3as !ascinatin$ to see the di!!erence 5et3een last year at this time and this year at this time and ho3 !ar 5itcoin has come and 3here 3e

3ill 5e neAt year. ABL' Any5ody $rum5lin$ 3hile you 3ere there7 8ou 1no32 L9h this 5itcoin thin$* :0d rather 5e usin$ silverM or somethin$ li1e that* or did it ?ust sort o! !ade7 SRM' : didn0t hear any5ody sayin$ that 5ut : $uess : ?ust missed tal1in$ to those people 3ho aren0t interested in 5itcoin. GSRM li$ht Lau$hterG AMA' : thin1 its lovely that you $ot people 3ho are really s1eptical and especially a5out money to sho3 such a 3illin$ness to em5race this currency 5ecause you 1no3 e!!ectively they don0t 5elieve that !iat is via5le as a currency. : thin1 that is the !oundational 5elie!* : don0t thin1 they trust !iat or the $overnment that 5ac1s the !iat. So persuadin$ s1eptics is : thin1 a pretty 5i$ milestone. NNNMusicNNN ABL' So i! money is an illusion* then 5itcoin is an illusion that you $et to 5asically ma1e up your o3n mind a5out on ho3 you 3ant to see it as. )his is especially true 3hen it comes to denominations* even thou$h the common 3ay people li1e to thin1 a5out 5itcoin is as a 3hole 5itcoin. )hen you 1no3 i! i have a !raction o! that then its some decimal point li1e .-% 5itcoin or -.--% 5itcoin 5ut there is actually another 3ay to thin1 a5out it. 8ou could ta1e the decimal point and move it 3here you 3ant. )here are implications to that* it chan$es the 3ay you thin1 a5out it in your head in a certain 3ay. :0m here 3ith e!! Coleman* he@s a 5oard mem5er o! the 5itcoin alliance o! Canada. 6e@ve 5een tal1in$ a5out this idea o! 3hen its appropriate to shi!t your perspective and speci!ically to move to the end o! it. So e!!* 3hy is this somethin$ that should 5e important to people ri$ht no37 "C' 6ell* Adam : thin1 its mainly ?ust a usa5ility issue 3here 3e are startin$ to see that 3ith 5itcoins stayin$ !or lon$ periods o! time at around %-- dollars its ?ust not practical to price small items 3ithout a trail o! points and ;eros in !ront o! them and that0s ?ust not user !riendly.

ABL' :0ll a$ree that that0s not user !riendly* 5ut do you thin1 that there0s any con!lict here 3ith the direction that the development has 5een $oin$. :t seems li1e you@re ri$ht* it doesn0t ma1e a lot o! sense to have a 5itcoin that0s 3orth a hundred dollars 5e the standard unit o! accountin$* 5ecause a lot o! transactions occur at level 5elo3 that 5ut at the same time* is there a di!!erentiation 3here 3e have to stop payin$ attention to num5ers 5ecause they 5ecome dust* 3here they come to a point 3here they aren0t usa5le. Ho3 does the community $o a5out ma1in$ a chan$e li1e this7 "C' : de!initely don0t thin1 its at odds 3ith any development approach in !act the ma?or clients are all inte$ratin$ support !or the m5it ri$ht in to the so!t3are so you can s3itch to it and see everythin$ in that 3ay* its de!initely !ar a5ove the threshold that they0re loo1in$ at 3hen they@re sayin$ somethin$ is so small it@s dust* that it@s in the 3ay and its not an advanta$e to thin1 o! that unit.

)hat@s de!initely a much lo3er level 5ut you raise a $ood point* 3hich is that there is t3o thin$s $oin$ on here2 there0s practical usa5ility* and ho3 our mind thin1s a5out somethin$. )here is t3o 3ays you can approach the m5it thin$* you can say* on one hand : 3ill thin1 o! everythin$ in terms o! m5it. :! i had a %-- 5itcoins : 3ould thin1 o! it as %--*--- m5its. 9r* : 3ould ?ust use this as a tool* the same 3ay : 3ould s3itch in 5et3een 1ilometers and meters accordin$ to 3hat 1ind o! a distance :@m tal1in$ a5out. :0ll use meters !or small distances and 1ilometers 3hen :@m $oin$ on a lon$ trip* and you can apply that 1ind o! mentality to 5itcoin 3ith the m5it and the normal 5itcoin 3ithout chan$in$ your mindset at all.

ABL' )hat@s a really interestin$ perspective* : haven0t thou$ht a5out it in that 3ay* 5ut that ma1es a lot o! sense to me. 9ne o! the interestin$ parts a5out this chan$e is* it@s not li1e some3here in the pro$ram 3here someone !lips a 5utton and everyone is s3itched over to this ne3 unit o! measurement. :t seems almost li1e a chic1en-e$$ pro5lem 5ecause i! vendors aren0t o!!erin$ product at a certain num5er o! m5its then users don0t thin1 a5out the num5ers o! m5its* instead they are thin1in$ a5out the !ractions o! 5itcoins. :t seems li1e 5oth sides have to come to$ether and ma1e these chan$es at 5asically the same time in order !or it to 5e a easy chan$e !or every5ody to ma1e. Have you put some thou$ht into ho3 somethin$ li1e this is actually $oin$ to happen7 Certainly* theoretically* i! 5itcoin is $oin$ to succeed* 3e 3ill have to have these re-denominations. )he num5er o! 5itcoins doesn0t chan$e* its ?ust the 3ay 3e loo1 at them* and the 3ay 3e divide them chan$es. So* ho3 do you thin1 3e 3ill $et to that place7 "C' : thin1 it can loo1 li1e a chic1en and e$$ pro5lem i! you vie3 the pro5lem as ho3 do 3e $et every5ody to start usin$ this unit. : don0t thin1 that0s necessarily the pro5lem. : thin1 the pro5lem is2 ho3 do 3e $et people in!ormed and com!orta5le 3ith the ne3 unit so that 3henever it comes up its intuitive to that. As lon$ as 3e solve that pro5lem* then people are $oin$ to use 3hatever tool it is !or the ?o5 and : see it as a 5it o! trend 3here normal everyday thin$s are $oin$ to start usin$ the m5it more 5ecause its so much more intuitive than tal1in$ a5out point-;ero-this or point-;ero-one-!ivethat 5ut : can still ima$ine scenarios 3here someone 3ho has %-*--- 5itcoins pro5a5ly 3ont s3itch over to thin1in$ a5out it as %- million m5its. But then a$ain* its totally up to you. )hat di!!erentiation 5et3een the too : thin1* is per!ectly !ine. 8ou don0t have so much o! a chic1en and e$$ pro5lem $ettin$ people to s3itch its ?ust a matter o! $ettin$ people com!orta5le 3ith somethin$ di!!erent so they can use 3hatever is easiest.

ABL' : can see that part o! it 5ut* this is somethin$ that : have come up a$ainst and : can0t ima$ine that :@m the only one. )here are some services out there that have s3itched to tal1in$ to m5its especially micro-tippin$ services the reddit 5ot is an eAample o! that they tal1 a5out m5its a lot and : 5elieve there are some tippin$ services out there 5esides that 5ut : cannot recall them o!! the top o! my head. )hat0s 5een con!usin$ to me 5ecause :0ve 5een used to loo1in$ at 5itcoins so 3hen : see these other num5ers* it ta1es me a 3hile to clic1 and its harder to do the math 3hich is !unny as the o5viousness o! it simply movin$ a decimal point. : have had a little 5it o! a di!!icult time 3ith this. <o

you thin1 there are 3ays that 3e can improve usa5ility on this or do you thin1 this is ?ust somethin$ 3here people ?ust have to learn and it 3ill happen eventually.

"C' : thin1 a lot o! it is ?ust ma1in$ the choice that ma1es sense. Li1e : said 5e!ore 3ith meters and 1ilometers* i! your tal1in$ a5out a small amount o! money it ?ust ma1es sense to use m5its* there0s no reason to involve decimal places. :! your tal1in$ a5out a lar$er amount o! money* o! course it ma1es sense to tal1 a5out 5itcoins. 6hen you $et to that underlyin$ mental pro5lem to ho3 does it 5ecome intuitive to me* ho3 does it start ma1in$ sense to me* : thin1 your on to somethin$ there. Personally* 5e!ore my o3n mental s3itch happened : had to $o throu$h and chan$e all my so!t3are to 3or1in$ in m5its and then it started to ma1e sense to me* i started to $et an intuition !or it.

ABL' So its a5out immersin$ yoursel! into it 5asically and ma1in$ it the ne3 normal !or yoursel!.

"C' <e!initely* and also 3e@re usin$ the term m5it* : thin1 somethin$ simple and easy to say is really important. :! you thin1 a5out this as a Lmilli5itcoinM that0s ?ust . eAtra units to hold in your 5rain at the same time.

ABL' So* lets tal1 a5out that actually 5ecause you 1no3 m5it is one o! those thin$s that ma1es sense on paper 5ecause its totally accurate. :s it a micro or milli5it7

"C' :t@s milli5it.

ABL' 91ay* so it@s milli5itcoin. :t ?ust seems to me that there0s a pro5lem 3ith the names* 5ecause the names aren0t cra;y intuitive its not li1e a L5uc1M. )hey typically have multiple sylla5les so : 3as thin1in$ a5out the satoshi unit 5ecause you can call that a tosh* somethin$ one sylla5le and easy to associate that is meanin$!ully di!!erent !rom 5itcoin.

"C' Adam* : thin1 you 5rou$ht up a $reat point there 3ith the L5uc1M 3hich is no5ody really instituted the 3ord 5uc1* it is simply slan$ !or dollars* ri$ht7

ABL' )hat0s true.

"C' :t0s somethin$ that spread on its o3n ?ust 5ecause it 3as easier. "or mysel!* 3hen : 3as thin1in$ a5out the possi5le names !or the unit that is -.--% 5itcoin none o! the names 3ere intuitive to me* none o! them sense to me. At the 5e$innin$ : thou$ht 3e 3ere $oin$ to call them millicoins or milli5itcoins* or milli5its. 6hen : immersed mysel! in the conversation : reali;ed that m5it is ?ust somethin$ that 3e started to say* : didn0t even intentionally thin1 : 3as $oin$ to 5e usin$ the 3ord m5it as much as it turns out : have 5een.

ABL' 8eah* its !unny de!initely $oin$ into this conversation : 3asn0t sure 3hat 3e 3ere $oin$ to call it either 5ut m5it is the easiest thin$ o! all o! them 3hile still indicatin$ 3hat in !act it is* i! you don@t 1no3 3hat it is. 6hen 3as the time 3here you thou$ht to yoursel! this is 3hen 3e have to start seriously considerin$ usin$ this7 :ts somethin$ 3e tal1ed a5out the sho3 early on* 5ut 3e haven0t 5een a5le to $et to it recently* 5ut it@s 5een a Euestion. 6e receive all these micro transactions and it 3ould 5e a much 5i$$er and interestin$ num5er i! 3e 3ere tal1in$ a5out donations in terms o! m5its rather than !ractions o! 5itcoins 5ut at the same time* 3e haven0t made the s3itch yet. 6hat 3as the meanin$!ulness !or you* 3as there a num5er in particular* an event7 "C' )his is 3here : 3ould touch on mday 3hich is o! course on une +nd* 3hen tal1in$ a5out 3hen the s3itch occured and one o! the thin$s that has come up as a natural milestone is that it@s 5een t3o years since the m5it passed the B.S cent this is somethin$ 3e have a 3ord !or and use all the time :@m not an American mysel! 5ut this is the 3orlds most circulated currency so its a $reat $au$e !or 3hat a natural unit is. As its 5een over t3o years* : thin1 its a pretty $ood indicator that its time to start thin1in$ a5out it* 5ut : thin1 3e have this underlyin$ !eelin$ a5out the volatility and the eAchan$e rate* is this $oin$ to stay* are 3e $oin$ to $o 5ac1 and !orth a little 5it here 5e!ore 3e more !or3ard7 Do3 that 3e are seein$ a prolon$ed stay at a much lar$er evaluation its startin$ to ma1e a lot o! intuitive sense.

ABL' )he BS dollar isn0t the only thin$ out there 5ut its the standard as !ar as monetary units are concerned 5ecause its somethin$ most people can re!erence -- at least their o3n currency a$ainst. "or me* its 5een a5out these hundred dollar mar1s* i !eel that 3e have one that naturally occurs at a %-- dollars 3e have one that occurs at the neAt re-denomination at %-*--- and a %--*---. <o you thin1 its that type o! pro$ression 3e have to see and does that mean 3e have a more natural !uture o! these ahead* once 3e ma1e one s3itch the !ollo3in$ ones 3ill 5ecome more natural.

"C' : thin1 there are a lot o! people 5etter Euali!ied to tal1 a5out that than me and that 3ould 5e anyone 3ho has lived in a country that has $one throu$h re-domination themselves 5e!ore. )hese are not uncommon in the 3orld0s currencies*3e have situations due to de!lation or chan$e in the pe$$in$ o! a currency 3e have a shi!t in num5ers that happens and people in those countries 3ould pro5a5ly tell you that they $et used to it a!ter a 3hile. : don0t 1no3 i! 3e 3ill have to $et used to it* the di!!erence movin$ !rom the 5itcoin to the m5it and movin$ !rom m5it to somethin$ . decimal

places over is Euite a radical di!!erence in terms o! the overall $ro3th reEuired 5y the 5itcoin economy its a much smaller di!!erence to $o !rom one dollar per 5itcoin to one dollar per m5it than it is to $o !rom one dollar per m5it to %--- dollars per m5it. :! 3e0ll see that in my li!etime it 3ould 5e a $reat thin$ 5ut it 3ould also 5e a $reat pro5lem to have and i! 3e have it* : $uess 3e0ll $et to it 3hen 3e $et to it. )he nice thin$ a5out the m5it is that its in the middle there* as lon$ as 3e stay a5ove %dollars us per 5itcoin and 5elo3 %--*--- dollars us per 5itcoin* it is still rou$hly usa5le.

ABL' So !or someone 3ho has listened to this conversation and 3ould li1e to chan$e their client themselves so that they can start thin1in$ a5out 5itcoins in terms o! m5its and multiply their holdin$s 5y doin$ so* in their head. Can you 3al1 us throu$h ho3 someone usin$ the standard satoshi client 3ould ma1e this chan$e7

"C' :t0s very easy 5ecause this has 5een 5uilt in 5y people doin$ the development 3or1* so i! you0ve $ot the standard client* and you ?ust $o to the settin$s menu* and $o to options* you0ll see a display ta5 there and 3hen you clic1 on that there 3ill 5e a section that says units to sho3 amounts in and one o! the options there is m5tc. So you ?ust chose one* hit o1ay* and you@re ready to $o* it0s really that easy.

ABL' "or people not usin$ the satoshi client* is there some3here they can $et some more in!ormation on this7

"C' <e!initely* in !act that is 3hy 3e setup the 3e5site em-5it.or$ ?ust to provide instructions !or di!!erent clients* to ans3er some 5asic Euestions* to provide some $raphics* ?ust those sort o! resources !or people. :! you0re usin$ 5loc1chain.in!o or electrum or somethin$ li1e that 3e have the instructions up there !or you too.

ABL' 8ou said there are some compleAities !or people s3itchin$ their 5usinesses

"C' : thin1 that0s somethin$ that 3e !or$et a little 5it in this conversation. 6e can tal1 a5out 3hat 3e 3ant to use as units and 3e can tal1 a5out the community and in a $eneral sense. But there are t3o very di!!erent types o! situations people are !aced 3ith. 9nce is2 : 3ant to s3itch my o3n personal client and s3itch the 3ay : thin1 a5out this and the other is i! : have a pu5lic !acin$ 3e5site 3hen does it ma1e sense to denominate my prices or values in 5itcoins or in m5its and that0s a very di!!erent thin$ and that0s 3hy : setup em-5it.or$ and launched the mday pro$ram so that 3e can raise the level o! a3areness to a level 3here it 3ill 5e practical !or 5usinessmen 3ith pu5lic !acin$

3e5sites to use these denominations in re$ular pricin$. :! :@m a 5usiness o3ner or an eAchan$e o3ner or some5ody 3ho is sellin$ anythin$ in 5itcoins : mi$ht loo1 at my 3e5pa$e and mi$ht say2 oh 3ell -.-% 5itcoins !or somethin$ doesn0t loo1 very $ood and : pre!er to use m5its 5ut : have a Euestion o! are people really $oin$ to 1no3 3hat this is. 9ne o! the other thin$s :@m $oin$ to 5e doin$ over the summer is runnin$ some surveys a5out $eneral a3areness2 :! you see somethin$ priced in a m5it* do you 1no3 3hat that cost is li1e* does it ma1e sense to you7 )his is to help provide that level o! user research !or 5usinesses that are as1in$ that Euestion. 6e also 3ant to provide $raphics and simple thin$s li1e that that ma1e it easier to 5rand your 3e5site.

ABL' )he ma1in$ sure that your customers understand the thin$ you are actually tryin$ to convey to them is really important 5ecause other3ise you0ve ta1en 3hat is already a very small !raction 3hich mi$ht seem reasona5le to some people out there* 5ut instead you0ve replaced it 3ith %-- o! this other unit* and they not 5e a5le to tell that the other unit is 3orth a lot less than they 3ere displayin$ a !raction. )hat0s a pro5lem !or pretty much every5ody involved.

"C' :t is* 5ut there0s t3o thin$s that ma1es this a lot easier !or 5itcoin than it 3ould 5e than chan$in$ any other currency. )he !irst one is that i! your sellin$ somethin$ in 5itcoins* your $enerally sellin$ it to people 3ho 1no3 a lot a5out 5itcoins* its a little 5it o! a specialist community* people 3ho use 5itcoins are a little ahead o! the curve* its still such an early technolo$y* they may have 5een 5rou$ht into it 5y a !riend or a !amily mem5er 5ut chances are i! they have that !riend or !amily mem5er 3ho is an eApert. So they0ve $ot a much closer relationship to 1no3led$e and eApertise in 5itcoin than someone does in say a dollar or a currency li1e that. )hat aspect helps a lot* the second aspect !or 5usinesses to consider is i! you $ot -.-%-% price on somethin$* this is already a pro5lem !rom a user-!riendliness point o! vie3* that is already somethin$ that someone 3hom is not totally com!orta5le 3ith decimal places or those types o! intuitions con!uses them as to ho3 much it is 3orth* and 3hat is a $ood price and a 5ad price. )hat is an eAistin$ pro5lem that can 5e reduced ?ust 5y s3itchin$ to the m5it* those t3o thin$s ma1e it a lot easier !or a 5usinesses sellin$ thin$s in 5itcoins to ma1e that s3itch than it 3ould 5e !or us to ad?ust the dollar or somethin$ li1e that.

ABL' Ri$ht* that ma1es sense. 8ou said that in the past you0ve had m5it day* and you0ve $ot the em5it.or$ site* so 3hats neAt in this movement* are you plannin$ to do some pu5lic outreach7 :s there a plan !or another m5it day or are 3e 3aitin$ a year !or that7

"C' 6ell : didn0t choose m5it day* m5it day is une +nd every year* the reason !or that is that its the anniversary o! 3hen the m5it passed the BS cent. )his year 3as the t3o year anniversary o! m5it day* and neAt is year . o! mday. :t0s $ood to remind people the Euestion 3e0ve 5een as1in$ !or a 3hile and its a $ood 3ay to 1eep trac1 o! ho3 lon$ 3e0ve 5een as1in$ this Euestion.

ABL' So 5y the time 3e roll around to m5it day neAt year do you thin1 this 3ill 5e pervasive or do you thin1 its $oin$ to ta1e a 3hile to $et people on 5oard7 "C' 6e0ll have to 3ait and see 5ut my personal intuition is that i! 3e $et around to another year and 3e0ve 1ept the evaluation in the ran$es o! 3hen m5its ma1e the most sense* people are $oin$ to reali;e that they0ve already heard a5out this a year a$o* and thin12 3e0ve 5een 3onderin$ a5out this !or a year* it0s pro5a5ly time no3 to ma1e the s3itch. So there0s a sense in 3hich its never to early to start thin1in$ a5out this stu!! and start in!ormin$ people 5ecause even i! it does ta1e a 3hile !or everyone to 5uild that intuition then they0ll 5e a5le to loo1 5ac1 and say2 L9h yeah* 3e have 5een tal1in$ a5out this !or a 3hileM

ABL' e!! Coleman* em-5it.or$. )han1 you very much !or your time.

"C' : appreciate it Adam.

NNNMusicNNN A<' letstal15itcoin is heard each 3ee1 5y thousands o! people 3ho are participatin$ in the ne3 di$ital economy. 9ur listener 5ase o! 5itcoin o3ners* miners* investors* technolo$ists* and merchants is $ro3in$ !ast. 6e o!!er a limited num5er o! short advertisin$ slots in each sho3 to 1eep our listeners en$a$ed and to provide maAimum impact !or our sponsors. :! you0d li1e to tal1 to us a5out letstal15itcoin send us an email at sponsorsCletstal15itcoin.com

A<' :! : sho3ed you a 3e5site 3here you could easily purchase electronics !rom the 3orlds lar$est distri5utor 3ith 5itcoins at ;ero percent mar1up* 3ould you thin1 it 3ould 5e too $ood to 5e true7 #ood ne3s* its real and its at 5itcoinstore.com. Choose !rom hal! a million items* save money on ama;on and ne3 e$$* and convert your 5itcoins !or real 3orld items. 8ou can even 5uy 3ith privacy* all 3e need is a shippin$ address. But don@t ta1e my 3ord !or it* see !or yoursel! at 5itcoinstore.com

ABL' So last 3ee1 : spo1e 3ith Stau; !rom open $arden* Stephanie mentioned that open $arden is an application that is used !or people 3ho had any sort o! connection to essentially create an ad-hoc mesh net3or1 that they could then use to maAimi;e their internet connection 3hile they they 3ere at Porc!est !or eAample. )hat0s 5asically 3hat the service does in $eneral no matter 3here you are. 6e $ot a listener Euestion that said this' : !ind the potential o! mesh net3or1s really interestin$* anythin$ distri5uted in pu5lic has to 5e $ood ri$ht7 )he open $arden pro?ect seems interestin$ 5ut its 5loc1ed

5y A)O) P my carrier. : !ail to see the point o! mesh net3or1s i! they can 5e shutdo3n 5y a carrier and he $oes on a little 5it !rom there. )he important part is 3e reached out to to Pai$e !rom open $arden 3ho is their community mana$er* she 5asically said that 3hile yes its 5loc1ed in the $oo$le play store you can still visit open$arden.com and do3nload it directly on to your device !rom there. =ven i! you have a carrier that doesn@t allo3 it* as lon$ as you can access the internet they can@t actually stop you !rom usin$ this pro$ram* chec1 it out at open$arden.com AMA' Can 3e say yay !or android7 Because that0s the 3ay you $et it on there 5ecause android is open.

SRM' : received an email !rom a listener that : thou$ht 3as per!ect to tal1 a5out on the sho3* 3e $et a 5unch o! Euestions on letstal15itcoin 1inda li1e' :@m ?ust startin$ to $et into 5itcoins and : 3ant to 1no3 ho3 to do this speci!ic aspect o! 5itcoinin$ and : love to tal1 a5out these Euestions 5ecause : thin1 people 3ant to 1no3 5ut are a!raid to as1 5ecause they thin1 it sounds li1e a ne35ie Euestion. But no Euestion is too ne35ie !or us and 3e love to tal1 a5out everythin$ so than1 you !or this Euestion. So the listener 3rites2 my Euestion is ho3 do you trans!er 5itcoins !rom an account on your computers to a paper 3allet. Please ma1e it as simple as possi5le 5ecause : am not that techsavvy please $o into as much detail as you can or $ive eAamples. Andreas do you have any eAamples7 AMA' Sure* so the paper 3allet itsel! is really ?ust a 3ay to store 1eys and so each paper 3allet has a pu5lic address 3hich is the same as your 3allet address* it starts 3ith the num5er %. :t also has a private address that@s hidden pre!era5ly covered 3ith some type o! security stic1er to ma1e sure it cannot 5e compromised easily. So the 3ay you send to it is rather simple* it 3ould 5e the same 3ay you 3ould send money to a !riend* you $et the pu5lic address o!! the 3allet and you 3ould update your address 5oo1 on your online 3allet and then you 3ould ?ust send 5itcoins to it. Do3 those 5itcoins essentially $et loc1ed on the 5loc1chain 3ith the paper 3allet 1ey and ?ust sits there on the 5loc1chain until you unloc1 it 3ith the other part o! the paper 3allet. So the nice thin$ a5out that is* it creates some interestin$ scenarios. "or eAample* i! your usin$ the sa!e paper 3allet or the open paper 3allet structure 3hich : 5uilt 3ith community support* you end up havin$ a 5ac1up stu5 and that essentially means that you can send 5icoin to it ma$ically* and i! you have one paper 3allet in your home sa!e* one i! a 5an1 sa!etey deposit 5oA* or in someone else@s sa!e or in sa!e1eepin$. =ssentially you@re sendin$ the money to 5oth locations. )hat@s an interestin$ phenomenon* you cant really do that 3ith physical money or 3ired money* so you can do 5ac1ups 3ith that system. :t@s as easy as sendin$ to an address 5ut it $ets more di!!icult 3hen you have lots o! paper 3allets* it 5ecomes di!!icult to remem5er 3hich address 5elon$s to 3hich 3allet and !or that 3e have $ot some ne3 so!t3are released at open paper 3allet 3hich $ives an alias to each 3allet. So* 5asically it com5ines an ad?ective* a color* and an animal name. So your 3allet instead o! 5ein$ named %EJ.&5 they are named cuddlypurplelion *lau$hterG and snea1y5lac1viper* or 3hatever. :n this 3ay its easy to remem5er and easy to !ind in a stac1 3ith very memora5le names.

SRM' 9pen paper 3allet has a lot o! di!!erent !eatures that : thin1 some other paper 3allets don@t have. But* its 3orth mentionin$ that there are other types o! paper 3allets out there. "or instance* 5loc1chain.in!o a popular 3e5 3allet also has a 3ay to eAport your 3allet to a paper 3allet* and they have step-5y-step directions on the 3e5site i! you have a 3allet there. 9ther 3allet 3e5sites* the names are escapin$ me ri$ht no3. AMA' Let me help you out* the $rand!ather o! them all is pro5a5ly 5itaddress.or$ 3hich is also the one 3hich 3e used code to derive open paper 3allet* 5oth o! 3hich are open source. )here is also 5itcoinpaper3allet.com 3hich is developed 5y Canton 3ho is a 3ell 1no3n community mem5er and o! course the ori$inal casascius paper 3allet 3hich 3as developed 5y Mi1e Cald3ell. So* there is actually a pretty 5i$ !ield and a lot o! them are open source* and all o! them are s3appin$ ideas around and 5its o! code* and they are developin$ Euite rapidly. ABL' )here is another option* its a paper 3allet* 5ut its also more li1e a paper 5ac1up* i! you use the armory 3allet then you have the option to print out unencrypted versions o! your private 1ey. 6hich is a little 5it di!!erent than a paper 3allet* paper 3allets usually incorporate some security !eatures. But as !ar as a strai$ht 5ac1up that you can tie to your eAistin$ 3allets* that another 3ay to do it. But its not the same as cold stora$e. AMA' 8eah* lets clari!y the di!!erence* ?ust 5rie!ly. A paper 3allet 5ac1up o! a online 3allet* allo3s you to recover your 3allet i! the online 3allet $ets destroyed someho3. Ho3ever* it doesn@t ta1e your 5itcoin o!!line. )hat means its simultaneously accessi5le !rom 5oth online account and the paper 3allet. A cold stora$e paper 3allet is the only place the 1eys eAist and its the only place those 5itcoins are tied to is the paper 3allet itsel!. So you literally move everythin$ o!!line and you can only access them 3ith a paper 3allet* and that0s a sli$htly di!!erent model. :t depends i! you 3ant to do sa!e lon$ term stora$e or 5ac1up.

SRM' 8eah* : thin1 that0s a $reat eAplanation !or any5ody 3ho is curious a5out that and i! you have any more Euestions you can let us 1no3 5y email at mailCletstal15itcoin.com NNNMusicNNN AMA' Last 3ee1* an over;ealous attorney at the !inancial re$ulators here in Cali!ornia send a cease and desist to the 5itcoin !oundation to tell them to stop tradin$ virtual currencies. As is o5vious !or anyone 3ho 1no3s 3hat the 5itcoin !oundation does* they don@t actually trade virtual currencies. So this 3as a 5it o! a 3eird situation 3here its almost li1e a scare tactic and : thin1 a lot o! people 3ould pro5a5ly assume that a lot o! these letters 3ent out due to a 1ey3ord search 5ut nevertheless it create a 5i$ scare across the 5itcoin industry 3hich made people 3onder i! they could 5e 3rapped up in this over 5road re$ulation on 3ho is and 3ho is not a money transmitter. : loo1ed into this and : !ound out that the national money transmitter association does not have a money transmitters license. 9! course they don@t* they don@t transmit money they are an association.

SRM' But that0s a per!ect analo$y. AMA' :t is* isn@t it. :t@s interestin$ to 1no3 that in this !i$ht* the money transmitter association is actually an ally 5ecause they 3ere almost hounded out o! eAistence 5y these over-;ealous re$ulators that are tryin$ to 5loc1 money transmitters !rom operatin$. As a result* money transmitters have a lot o! di!!icult openin$ 5an1 accounts and their 5an1 accounts 1eep $ettin$ !ro;en even i! they are operatin$ 3ith a license. :t@s interestin$ 5ecause 3e thin1 o! money transmitters as the ones 3ho are !ully compliant 3ith the re$ulations and on the side o! the man to play the $ame 5ased on the rules. But they are $ettin$ hounded ?ust as much as virtual currencies 5y the 5an1s 3ho have no interest in $ettin$ competition !rom these little players. ABL' But aren@t those the 5an1s* aren@t the 5an1s also money transmitters 5y the de!initions that 3e are tal1in$ a5out. AMA' 8eah the 5an1s are money transmitters 5ut the 5an1s don@t 3ant other money transmitters 3ho aren@t 5an1s playin$ :n their playin$ !ield. So they 5asically don@t allo3 them to open 5an1 accounts 3hich is 1ind o! amusin$ ri$ht7 )he same $ame they are playin$ a$ainst 5itcoin* : thin1 this cease and desist 3as ?ust a mis!ire and pro5a5ly the attorney 3ho sent it had no idea 3hat 5itcoin is or 3hat the 5itcoin !oundation is. But* 3e are $oin$ to see a lot o! these silly moves 5y unin!ormed pu5lic 5ureaucrats 3ho ?ust send these thin$s out. "or them it has no cost* its career 5ro3nie points and all o! the cost* panic* and dama$e to 5itcoin e!!ects other people that they don@t really care a5out. 6e are $oin$ to see a lot more o! these stupid moves. SRM' "ortunately* : see a lot o! people not ta1in$ this letter very seriously 3hich : thin1 is a $ood si$n. Althou$h : can see ho3 it 3ould 5e 1ind o! scary. But it seems li1e 3hat 3e see over and over a$ain* there is 5i$ 5usinesses and 5i$ interests 3hich have the re$ulators on their side or poc1et and they 3ant to 1eep competition out. AMA' 6ell* the re$ulators are operatin$ li1e a $uild. =!!ectively* they don@t en!orce any re$ulations on the 5i$ 5an1s* 3e@ve seen that a$ain and a$ain. )hey don@t really protect consumers and 3e@ve seen that a$ain and a$ain. So 3hat do they do7 SRM' Ri$ht. AMA' =ssentially they 1eep out competition* they 1eep the ravel out. GLau$hterG SRM' )hey send out letters Andreas. AMA' Ri$ht* GLau$hterG yeah. 6ho do they send out letters to they don@t send out letters to hs5c money launderin$ 5illions, they don@t attac1 any o! these tar$ets. )hey don@t $o a!ter me$a-criminals they only $o a!ter those 3ho are tryin$ to encroach on the lucrative 5usiness o! the 5an1s. )he re$ulators in the end* are $uilds* in the old !eudal sense.

ABL' A 5i$ pro5lem here is li1e you said Andreas* there is really over 5road la3 3hich seems to 5e the one that they are potentially out o! compliance 3ith. Loo1in$ at the people 3ho are 5ehind the letter and the la3* its actually the same $uy. So he may not 1no3 3hat 5itcoin is 5ut !rom the perspective o! 1no3in$ 3hat the la3 does or doesn@t apply to he pro5a5ly has a pretty $ood idea o! 3hats $oin$ on. :! you loo1 at the speci!ic statute that is re!erenced' %,BSC%/H- there0s a clause in there that is a5out de!inin$ 3ho does or doesn@t !all under this rulin$. :t says in clause A2 anyone 3ho 1no3in$ly conducts* controls* mana$es* supervises* directs* or o3ns all or part o! a unlicensed money transmittin$ 5usiness. )his is actually a point 5rou$ht up 5y Aaron #reen5ur$ 3ho in Cali!ornia has a lot o! eAperience 3ith these !inancial re$ulators and ho3 much trou5le they can $ive to emer$in$ 5usinesses. )he !oundation has some prominent mem5ers in it* some o! 3hom are actual eAchan$es* some o! 3hich are unlicensed 5y the de!initions o! this in Cali!ornia. )here is a Euestion o! even thou$h the !oundation doesn0t do any transmission themselves* 5ecause o! the o3nership structure that they have. )hey still mi$ht !all under this* and even 5eyond that* there is a Euestion on ho3 much control they have over 5itcoin and 3here that standard sits in re$ards to ho3 this rule applies.

AMA' Here is the thin$* even i! the entire mana$ement team o! the association is o3ned 5y the eAchan$es* 3hich it isn@t there are mem5ers on the 5oard and plenty o! re$ular mem5ers 3ho have nothin$ to do 3ith the eAchan$es. So the idea that you can say that the la3 eAtends to the pro!essionals associations that have nothin$ to do 3ith the mana$ement o! this* ?ust 5ecause their mem5ers are a part o! this* ma1es a complete moc1ery o! the la3. :t@s so over 5road that it 3ould touch anyone in an association. By the 3ay* association is a protected ri$ht under the !irst amendment* and is one o! the core parts o! the !irst amendment* so the a5ility to create a pro!essional association 3hich does not control eAchan$es is a protected ri$ht. 8ou cant ?ust 5ar$e in there and say hey you are an eAchan$e* there is a 5urden o! proo!. :! the la3 is constructed over 5roadly that doesn@t mean it can 5e en!orced as such. )he !oundation and other association li1e that have a clear a!!irmative de!ense P that is an association protect upon 5y the !irst amendment and the re$ulator can $o stu!!-it. ABL' So on the topic o! continuin$ ne3s in this space* that really doesn@t do much to add to the conversation* 5ut 3arrants a 5rie! response. )he #,* 3hat does the #, actually descri5e7 AMA' )he #, are the , lar$est economies in the 3orld. ABL' :n their recent pu5lication* the #, released an articled titled2 protectin$ di$ital economies* 3hich isn@t tremendously lon$* 5ut lon$ enou$h that you 3ouldn@t typically read the 3hole thin$. )he important ta1e a3ay !rom it is2 there0s this push !rom the international community or at least in the international $overnments to ta1e a hardline approach to online crime. )he pro5lem 3ith this* is that anythin$ that is actually outside o! the eAistin$ !inancial systems is vie3ed as somethin$ that is a 5oon to online crime. :t is di!!icult to trac1 5ecause it doesn@t $o throu$h the eAistin$ $lo5al payment processors such as visa or master card* there are others 5ut those 3ere the ones mentioned in the

list. 6ith that in mind* their recommendation is to not only 5an 5itcoin 5ut any alternative payment mechanism that doesn0t have this type o! thin$ 5uilt in* 3here it has to $o throu$h a neAus 3here it $oes throu$h a place 3here the identity o! the people doin$ the transactions can actually 5e determined. Because i! you don@t do that it ma1es it easier to conduct online crime. SRM' : $uess 3e@re $oin$ to have to 5an cash. ABL' 8es* the cash ar$ument. But is it a !air ar$ument7 Bitcoins are transmissi5le in a 3ay cash isn@t P over distances. AMA' )he report should pro5a5ly tal1 a5out protectin$ us !rom di$ital economies not protectin$ 5an1s !rom di$ital economies* and that0s the 5ottom line. Certainly 3hen they tal1 a5out the $reatest threat 5ein$ terrorism* espiona$e* and online crime. : 3asn@t around in +--, or +--/ 5ut none o! it 3as terrorism* espiona$e* and online crime unless you consider all o! the stoc1 mar1et as online crime. :n 3hich case* yeah a5solutely. )hat 3asn@t the ma?or concerned o! $lo5al economies. : loo1 at this as dinosaurs 5rayin$ at meteor trails. GLau$hterG )here may 5e a 5it o! noise* 5ut in a !e3 minutes they 3ill 5e measured and their time is comin$ to an end. :@m not tal1in$ a5out the #, in $eneral* 5ut this 1ind o! 5ureaucratic* close minded* old school idea that i! your not a part o! the system you must 5e evil* i! you are a part o! the system you do no evil* people see throu$h that. )here is an entire $eneration o! people 3ho see that as ridiculous* so : 3ouldn@t really pay more attention to this* they misdia$nosed the pro5lem and there!ore all o! their solutions are irrelevant. SRM' #ood luc1 5annin$ all online payments that $o don@t throu$h a tracea5le processor* : thin1 its $reat that people 3on@t ta1e this very seriously.

AMA' :ts 3onder!ul the hu5ris that $oes into them assumin$ that they even have the po3er and technolo$ical capa5ility to do that. :! you 5ray enou$h to the meteor trails may5e the meteors not $oin$ to $et you. GLau$hterG ABL' Continuin$ on 3ith Euic1 hit and miss ne3s* 3e tal1 a lot a5out the BS 5ecause there has 5een a lot o! action recently in the BS. But* #ermany has ?ust come out 3ith an interestin$ determination 3ith re$ards to the taAin$ situation !or 5itcoin. )o summari;e* i! you hold 5itcoin !or lon$er than a year it is no lon$er somethin$ that is suscepti5le to capital $ains 3hich Andreas Peterson alerted us to this this mornin$. )he Euestion here is* 3hat happens i! the in!rastructure that develops the re$ulatory system is totally di!!erent !rom country to country. <oes it matter to 5itcoin7 6ill it 5e local complications* or does it create a pro5lem or $ood situation !or us do3n the road. AMA' :t isn@t di!!erent than any other !inancial system. )here are no $lo5al re$ulations and that0s pro5a5ly a $ood thin$. As it $ives room to maneuver and alternative approaches and interpretations as 3ell as local eAperimentation. :t seems li1e #ermany is doin$ thin$s that is more conducive to lon$ term holdin$ o! 5itcoin or usin$ 5itcoin as a 3ay to store value. Let me point out that this isn@t very di!!erent !rom 3hat is happenin$ in the BS. So the current la3 in the BS is that capital $ains

income !rom assets held lon$er than one year are $enerally taAed at a lon$ term capital $ains rate. :! your total income puts you in the %- or %& percent 5rac1et !or earned income then you 3ould pay ;ero on those capital $ains* and you 3ould pay %&Q i! your income is in the +- to +& percent 5rac1et. So even in the BS capital $ains have special treatment and that0s a $ood thin$* it encoura$es people to invest in thin$s in the lon$ term* 3hich 3ith 5itcoin ali$ns nicely 3ith the de!lationary principle. 8ou can call it hoardin$ or you can ?ust call it a currency that encoura$es savin$s* : thin1 that0s a $reat development and over time 3e are $oin$ to see that these re$ulatory environments !riendly to 5itcoin attract more 5itcoin investment. :! Cali!ornia 1eeps 5rayin$ at meteor trails and sendin$ scary letters* all they are $oin$ to do is ma1e sure that this is not the place the neAt 5i$ 5itcoin thin$ happens and #ermany or apan or someone else 3ill scoop it.

SRM' : have a sli$htly di!!erent perspective on it* : thin1 all o! these thin$s* anythin$ that $overnment does is inter!erin$ in the natural state o! thin$s* i! you 3ill. So* a capital $ains taA is an inter!erence 3ith the mar1et and the natural state o! thin$s. Removin$ the taA !or assets held !or more than one year is another inter!erence they are pushin$ and manipulatin$ the mar1et in di!!erent 3ays. :n reality 3e don@t 1no3 3hats 5est* 3ho is a re$ulator or $overnment person to say that : thin1 you should hold your 5itcoins !or more than one year and :@m $oin$ to incentivi;e you to do that 5ecause : 3ant to eAtract as much money !rom you i! you do. Do they don@t 1no3 the ri$ht decision a5out that* the individual has the ri$ht decision a5out 3hether they 3ant to sell their 5itcoins t3o minutes a!ter they $ot them* or to hold on to them !or a year* or to hold on to them !or their li!etime. Anythin$ that $overnment does is really ?ust pushin$ people !rom 5ein$ a5le to ma1e those decisions a5out their o3n money in a uninterrupted and natural 3ay. :t@s $reat that people mi$ht 5e a5le to $et around or $et a 5rea1 !rom this access system in #ermany. Perhaps there 3ill 5e 5itcoin holdin$ !unds that pop up in #ermany and people 3ill store their 5itcoins lon$ term there and may5e they can $et a3ay !rom some o! these re$ulations. But* : 3ould li1e !or everyone to 5e !ree o! them in the !irst place and 5e a5le to ma1e their o3n decisions to spend* save* $ive a3ay or do 3hatever 3ith their money that they please.

AMA' )hat 3ouldn@t 5e very pro!ita5le !or the 5i$ 5an1s thou$h. So* you@re $oin$ to have to !ind a 3ay to elect people 3ho don@t 3or1 !or the 5i$ 5an1s. #ood luc1 3ith that. GLau$hterG )hat@s the 5ottom line* the pro5lem is these re$ulations and these taA incentives are all to 1eep the incum5ents po3er!ul and to protect their 5usinesses and 5usiness models at the eApense o! innovation. )hat@s the 5ottom line and o! course 5itcoin is $oin$ to run head on into these re$ulations. Simply 5ecause it cannot 5e easily pi$eon-holed to one o! the classic !our cate$ories that these re$ulators understand* its a ne3 thin$. :t@s the same as 3hat 3e sa3 on the internet* !or the !irst several years on the internet* people 3ere tryin$ to !i$ure out i! this !ell under the re$ulation o! !aA machines* tv systems* telepathy* or the re$ulation o! ca5le tv systems. 9! course it didn@t !all under any o! these cate$ories* so no3 3e have a patch-3or1 o! re$ulation !or the internet that is 5ecomin$ increasin$ly draconian 5ut none o! them loo1 anythin$ li1e they did in the !irst decade. : thin1 3e see the same thin$ in 5itcoin* people really can@t !i$ure out 3here it !its and so your $oin$ to $et this patch-3or1

3here di!!erent decisions o! as to 3here it !its results in di!!erent re$ulations 3hich is pro5a5ly not a $ood thin$ in the lon$ run. NNNMusicNNN

A<' Do3 there0s a 3ay to 5uy 5itcoins 3ith your credit or de5it card. B)CEuic1.com* simply 5ecome a mem5er o! their 5itcoin 5uyers clu5 and you@ll 5e eli$i5le to start. Bnli1e other services you don@t have to 3ait . to & days* your 5itcoins arrive 3ithin minutes on B)CEuic1 and are delivered throu$h encrypted private 1eys that you control. :! you 3ant to 5uy 5itcoins 3ith a credit or de5it card and don@t 3ant to 3ait* B)C Euic1 is !or you. Chec1 it out today at B)CEuic1.com

ABL' 8ou@re listenin$ to letstal15itcoin the premier audio cast providin$ ne3s and insi$ht that cover the rapidly evolvin$ 3orld o! di$ital money. 9ur t3ice 3ee1ly sho3 includes analysis o! late 5rea1in$ ne3s* updates on 1ey technical* 5usiness* and re$ulatory issues and in-dept intervie3s 3ith the 1ey people drivin$ the ne3 di$ital economy. Let@s tal1 5itcoin o!!ers sponsors an attractive 3ay to reach a tar$eted and savvy audience* !or more in!ormation email sponsorsCletstal15itcoin.com

SRM' )his may 5e $oin$ o!! into the 3eeds a little 5it* But :@m ?ust $oin$ to put a thou$ht out there. )here 3as a recent decision in 3hich the supreme court in the BS ruled unconstitutional the de!ense o! marria$e act. 6hich is lau$ha5ly named* : $uess : am happy a5out that 5ut :@ll share my thou$hts on that in a moment. 6hat this la3 that 3as struc1 do3n stated 3as that states and the !ederal $overnment don@t have to reco$ni;e marria$e contracts 5et3een $ay individuals that 3ere married in another state. )hat means that strai$ht people en?oyed some privile$es such as immi$ration* taA* hospital visitation and these same privile$es 3ere not eAtended to $ay couples. )hat 3as struc1 do3n and : li1e the idea o! not havin$ discrimination 5ut really the 3hole $overnment involvement in marria$e is them tryin$ to incentives 3ith all these taA 5rea1s* and all the other thin$s that married couples $et that sin$le people don@t $et. 6hat they are doin$ is incentivi;in$ 3hat they thin1 is a $ood decision* 3hat they thin1 is moral* 3hat they 3ant people do. :@m sorry 5ut the $overnment doesn@t $et to decide ho3 :@m $oin$ to live my li!e. )o incentivi;e somethin$ they thin1 is moral is similar to them incentivi;in$ savin$ 3ith the taA 5rea1s !or holdin$ assets !or a lon$ time. May5e that0s not a $ood idea !or every5ody* may5e $ettin$ married is not a $ood idea !or every5ody and they should 5e a5le to choose that on their o3n 3ithout this pressure !rom outside. ABL' : thin1 its important to loo1 at the historical conteAt 5ecause the $overnment didn@t start o!! issuin$ marria$e licenses* it 3as somethin$ handled 5y local reli$ions and thin$s li1e that !or Euite a lon$ time. )hey only $ot into it in the last %&- years* the reason 3hy is 5ecause there 3as a need !or a continuous re$istry* to protect a$ainst overlap. )his 3as on a state level and 3e to this day don@t have a !ederal system !or marria$e is this another candidate to have its !unction ta1en over 5y a

5loc1chain. :nstead o! re$isterin$ 3ith one particular state your in and $ettin$ a marria$e license* you search the 5loc1chain to see i! there is any con!lictin$ entries !or either party and then you are a5le to add your marria$e on to there. Could this $o throu$h that channel7 SRM' : don@t 1no3 5ut : 3ould love to marry !our 3omen on the 5loc1chain all at once. GLau$hterG and :@m $oin$ to 5e doin$ that as soon as its possi5le. Adam the reason : thin1 that licenses !irst came a5out P : mean there0s a reason that the $overnment issues licenses and permits and that reason is so they can deny them i! they 3ant to. : don@t thin1 it had much to do 3ith 1eepin$ records 5ut they do li1e to do that as 3ell. As : understand it* the history o! marria$e certi!icates and marria$e licenses in the BS 3as a very racist one and they 3ould deny certi!icates to couples 3ho 3ere interracial and the only reason to have marria$e certi!icates 3as so that they could deny them to some people. Money also $oes alon$ 3ith it* no3 3hen you $et married you have to pay a !ee and in some cases you have to $et tested !or certain seAually transmitted in!ections such as syphilis 3hich is incredi5ly uncommon amon$ strai$ht people and its so ridiculous and comes 3ith all these antiEuated thin$s and !ees !or the state and reasons so 3hy they can deny you. ust the 3hole idea o! 5e$$in$ the $overnment !or permission to ma1e a private contract 3ith someone else and say that : 3ould li1e to have a committed relationship 3ith you and here are the terms.

AMA' : 3ould li1e to second that. My interest in activism in the <9MA case 3as !rom the simple !act that less than &- years a$o* 5e!ore Lovin$ vs. Fir$inia --)han1 you Mr. and Mrs. Lovin$ -- my marria$e 3as ille$al SRM' 6o3.. AMA' and that ru5s me the 3ron$ 3ay. SRM' 6hy 3as your marria$e ille$al7 AMA' Because accordin$ to the standards o! the day* my marria$e 3as an interracial marria$e so up to %/HR and until Lovin$ vs. Fir$inia : 3ould 5e 5anned !rom marryin$ my 3i!e. )hat simple reali;ation that : am currently livin$ a marria$e that ?ust &- years a$o 3as ille$al is a really stron$ motivation to not as1 5ut demand that others have the a5ility to do that. But you@re ri$ht at the end o! the day marria$e licenses are to stop misce$enation and all these other 5i;arre ideas a5out purity o! race. :t 3as a5out property chattel and denyin$ access to that institution.

SRM' : sa3 an interestin$ meme on !ace 5oo1 the other day sayin$ somethin$ li1e2 i! you 3ant to 1no3 3hy 3e have passports ?ust as1 =d3ard Sno3den 5ecause he ?ust $ot his revo1ed that is ultimately 3hy 3e have any 1ind o! permission slip !rom the $overnment. AMA' <o you 1no3 3hen passports 3ere started7 6orld 3ar one and in the pream5le to 3orld 3ar

t3o they 3ere all a5out stoppin$ the !lo3 o! e3ish people !rom country to country !rom 5ein$ a5le to escape the control o! $overnment across 5orders. A lot o! the $overnment institutions have their roots in very u$ly !orms o! discrimination.

ABL' So most o! the time on letstal15itcoin 3e tal1 a5out stories that have 5een ma1in$ their rounds* 5ecause 3e aren@t the most timely sho3 5ut in this particular case 3ith some o! the ne3 3riters :@m 3or1in$ 3ith !or the ori$inal content 5lo$ that 3e are $oin$ to 5e launchin$ soon. Bryan Cohen stum5led across essentially a <=A con!iscation report that 3as a sin$le line in a %-H pa$e lon$ document that pointed out 3hat 3e thin1 is the !irst sei;ure o! 5itcoins 5y a !ederal a$ency or any $overnmental a$ency. )his is not to say that the 5itcoin protocol itsel! 3as 5ro1en or violated* more than li1ely 3hat is happenin$ here is P and 3e don@t have the !ull story here* 5ut essentially 3hat happened is it is a sil1 road transaction that $enerated this and the $uy in Euestion $oes 5y the name Casey ones on the sil1 road !orums. 6e@ve happen to trac1 do3n 3ith the help o! some listeners 3ho he actually 3as and 3e have court records o! 3hen he 3as arrai$ned on so it does loo1 li1e this 3as simply a honey pot. Basically 3hat it loo1s li1e happened is that the <=A setup a !a1e sellin$ account on one o! these illicit 5lac1 mar1ets that operates on the )orr-net3or1 one o! them is called sil1 road and one o! them is called Atlantis* one o! them is called mar1et reloaded. 6e do 1no3 that the person 3ho 3as involved 3as at least active on sil1 road and there they 3ere sellin$ a couple di!!erent types o! dru$s. )he interestin$ part o! this case is that a!ter the <=A too1 control o! the 5itcoins as detailed in their report it loo1s li1e the 5itcoins have $one throu$h a num5er o! transactions. 6hen 3e !irst started loo1in$ at this story 3hat : 3as eApectin$ 3as !or the 5itcoins to ma1e one or t3o ?umps and then sit there 5ecause they are evidence. =vidence that 3as sei;ed in a case that can essentially 5e returned to the o3ner i! the o3ner applies !or it 5ecause !or these to 5e sei;ed there doesn@t have to 5e a char$e !iled there only needs to 5e a suspicion that somethin$ happened and then they are allo3ed to preemptively $ra5 it and then !i$ure out later 3hat to do 3ith it. 6hat actually happened in this case* once the 5itcoins $o into the <=A@s account it moved throu$h a 3hole series o! miAer or tum5lin$ transactions so 3e 3ere not a5le to trac1 do3n more than + o! the ori$inal %% 5itcoins that 3ere sei;ed. )his has some interestin$ implications 5oth on the 3hat the hell are the <=A doin$ 3ith the 5itcoins 5ut it also has some interestin$ implications are these 5lac1 mar1ets that are supposed to 5e sa!e even actually have the potential to 5e sa!e or does the anonymity 3or1 in 5oth 3ays so that 3henever you do any sort o! transaction that involves your address your puttin$ yoursel! in a lot o! ris1 5ecause these a$encies that are active out there.

AMA' 6ell : thin1 the other possi5ility is that he <=A never actually had these 5itcoins to start 3ith. 6e can@t tell !or sure that any o! these addresses 3ere o3ned 5y the <=A. So here is a sli$htly alternative scenario 3here the <=A arrests or arrai$ns this person and then pronounce that they sei;ed the 5itcoins in this address and in the 5an1in$ system 3hen they announce that they sei;ed the dollars thin$s happen. Ban1s !ree;e accounts* thin$s happen. :n the 5itcoin space that announcement had ;ero impact and there0s a really $ood chance that =ric ?ust moved the money.

SRM' 8eah that0s an interestin$ perspective* all the <=A sei;ure ni$htmare stories 3here someone is drivin$ in a car and has a 5unch o! cash on them !or some reason. : remem5er hearin$ a story a5out some $uy 3ho 3as movin$ across country and had his li!e savin$s 3ith him cash* %- or +thousand dollars and $ot pulled over 5y a cop. 6hat they 3ill do is char$e the money 3ith a crime and they 3ill sei;e it* it@s called asset !or!eiture* they can ta1e cars* or anythin$ that they 5elieve 3as involved in a dru$ transaction. But they can@t do that 3ith 5itcoins* : don@t thin1 they could any3ay. 6hat do you $uys thin17

ABL')here are a couple o! scenarios here* i! you sei;e the computer and its unencrypted and you0ve $ot a 3allet on there then technically you have sei;ed the 5itcoins its ?ust a Euestion i! you have the 1no3-ho3 to move them to someplace you control. Andreas : thin1 that0s an interestin$ point that you made a5out the sei;ure may5e its not a paper !iat thin$ 3here they say this is the 3ay it is no3 and eApect thin$s to happen 5ut 5ecause 5itcoin 3or1s di!!erently they didn@t happen. )he part that ma1es me thin1 that this is not a situation li1e that is that the %%.-+ 5itcoins that are re!erence in this came !rom a 3allet that had (- 5itcoins in total so :@ve $ot to ima$ine i! somethin$ is $oin$ to happen* its $oin$ to happen to the entire amount on the 3allet rather than this small transactional amount* it 3as only ,-- dollars at the time 3hen this transaction 3as made 5ut 3hy 3asn@t it the 3hole thin$ i! it is the <=A tryin$ to $ra5 it all.

AMA' 6ho 1no3s7 :t mi$ht simply 5e that the person involved used a separate destination 3allet !or the transaction itsel! and it 3as the only one that they 1ne3 to sei;e. So 3ho 1no3s really7 )he 5ottom line is that asset !or!eiture la3s as 3ell as money launderin$ la3s is a 3ay !or the state to shi!t the 5urden o! proo! o! an actual crime to the money that !inances potential crimes and as a result they increasin$ly move la3 en!orcement a3ay !rom the crime itsel! 3hich is perhaps the possession o! narcotics su5stances or the sale o! narcotic su5stances* to the money !lo3s themselves. 9! course the money !lo3s don0t have the same process ri$hts and asset !or!eiture is a very 5i$ sled$e hammer 3hich the $overnment can not only ta1e the money out o! circulation 5ut also strip the de!endant !rom any opportunity to de!end themselves 5y ta1in$ a3ay all their money so they can@t pay !or la3yers that0s the other pernicious aspect o! asset !or!eiture. )o me asset !or!eiture is a completely draconian and totalitarian approach to la3 en!orcement it shi!ts the la3 en!orcement !rom action o! committin$ the crime to the transaction 3hich is very closely associated to !reedom o! speech and association its more thou$ht crime than crime. 6e see this across la3 en!orce no3 days. :t@s easier to $o a!ter the thou$ht crime than the crime itsel!.

SRM' )hat $oes 5ac1 to 3hat 3e tal1ed a5out a couple o! times on the sho3 a5out2 is money launderin$ a crime7 :s any !inancial crime really ?ust speech. 9nce you@ve harmed someone that0s the crime* its not necessarily money 5ein$ moved around.

AMA' 6ell it helps eApand the de!inition o! crime until crime is 3hatever the po3ers say is crime and 3hatever you thin1 is crime really isn@t. :t creates a t3o tier ?ustice system 3here at the 5ottom you can have ;ero tolerance* asset !or!eiture* $uilty pleas* and plea 5ar$ains 3ith enormous threat 5ehind them and the other end o! the scale you can have discretionary !or$iveness* ;ero punishment instead o! ;ero tolerance it 5asically 5i!urcates the ?ustice system and creates these 3eird and perverse incentives !or la3 en!orcement. 8ou can $o 5ac1 to the discussion 3e 3ere havin$ 5e!ore* the 3ar on dru$s is really racist institution 5oth in its 5irth and its current implementation. )hey certainly don@t stop cocaine snortin$ 5an1ers 3hen they can stop and !ris1 ,--*--- minorities in Broo1lyn.

ABL' )he most appealin$ part o! 5itcoin to me is that lac1 o! ar5itrariness the lac1 o! a5ility to create la3s that only apply to one $roup di!!erently than other $roups. As 3e move !or3ard* and 3e have not seen this in money* 5itcoin accomplishes !or money this a$nostic neutral thin$ that 3e li1e to tal1 a5out* its a protocol plat!orm* the rules are the rules. :@m really curious to see i! this eAploration o! money as a plat!orm can eventually 5e transposed to other parts o! li!e. Li1e dru$ policy* or $overnment in $eneral. Any place 3here there are rules* it !eels li1e every5ody is treated the same 5ecause 3e are all the same on a 5asic level* there!ore 3e should all !ollo3 the same rules on a 5asic level. :! some people shouldn@t have to !ollo3 rules then may5e there shouldn@t 5e a rule a$ainst it in the !irst place.

AMA' : thin1 that0s a $reat insi$ht Adam* the 5ottom line here is that neutrality as eApressed in 5itcoins means its not a5out the sender or the recipient or the transaction itsel!* and transactions aren0t discriminated a$ainst 5ased on sender or recipient. :n a society 3here you have the rule o! la3 rather than the rule o! man* an empire o! la3s rather than men* as the !ounders used to say. =Euality o! ?ustice !or all* or eEuality o! application o! ?ustice then 5itcoin 3ould 5e a per!ect !it 5ecause it !its 3ith those principles entirely. Do3 i! you then assume 3hy are 3e havin$ this !riction 3ith 5itcoin* part o! the reason is that the rest o! society is no lon$er the rule o! la3 society* it is actually Euite a 5it a5out 3ho is the sender and 3ho is the recipient and ho3 much po3er do they have. :n that conteAt* 5itcoin seems incon$ruous. :t doesn@t !it into the model o! the eAistin$ !inancial and 5an1in$ system 3here you can ma1e Euic1 determinations o! 3ho is $ood or 5ad 5ased not on 3hat they do 5ut 3ho they are. NNNMusicNNN

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letstal15itcoin.com !or episode speci!ic address. :! you have any Euestions you 3ould li1e to 5e ans3ered on the air call us at %-,&&-3etal15itcoin )han1s to Andreas M. Antonopolis* <r. Stephanie Murphie* )homas 90Brien* Michael Mea$hen* and e!! Coleman !or providin$ content !or this episode. Music !or this episode 3as provided 5y #erald Ru5en !or more in!ormation on the music 3e used or the local sourced artists that created it please visit letstal15itcoin.com>music. Stay tune !or episode +- comin$ up on )uesday the +nd o! uly !eaturin$ more discussion and intervie3s. Letstal15itcoin is a start up and : am actually no3 loo1in$ !or people 3ho can potentially !ill in the $aps in my s1ill set. : thin1 : am pretty $ood at this sho3 thin$* and pretty $ood at this ?ournalism thin$ 5ut 3hen it comes to 5usiness decisions or technolo$y decisions these are not eAactly my stron$ areas* so no promises 5ut i! you are interested in this sort o! thin$ and loo1in$ !or a pro?ect to thro3 yoursel! in to %-- percent you can contact me at adamCletstal15itcoin.com.