Client: Doctor Mims, my therapist. Haha. Counselor: Hi! Client: Hello.

Counselor: I just want to thank you for coming in today. Client: Absolutely. Counselor: Before we get started I just need to tell you a little bit about informed consent. Client: You look different today. Counselor: Do I? Client: What is it? Counselor: I didnt put make up on. Client: Ohhhhh! Thats what it is. The-a-your eyeliner. Thats whats different. Counselor: Yeah, eyeliner and mascara. Client: I like it! Sometimes you got to soften it up for people, keep the fans interested. Counselor: Yeah, I mean. Client: Its just a different look, a little softer. Counselor: My work sees it all the time. Client: Really? You just roll out and like, lets go. Counselor: Yeah, exactly. But, umm, so for informed consent I just want to let you know that everything said here today will be confidential. I will be the only one to see this tape. Umm, so on that noteClient: What about your supervisor? Counselor: Well since you are my supervisor Client: So technically Counselor: I dont think you will be seeing the tape. Client: I wont, I will be reading the transcription. Counselor: You wont, you will be reading the transcription.

Client: I suppose thats true. Counselor: Right. And we wont have, umm, supervision with the group, so they wont be seeing it either. Client: Exactly. Counselor: But, on that note, we are being audio and video recorded at this time. So if at any time you want me to stop the tape just let me know and I will stop it and delete it for you. Client: Ok. Counselor: Ok? Umm, and then with the confidentiality, I just want to let you know that there are some limitations. Umm, so if you ever say anything about wanting to harm yourself or othersClient: Mmhmm. Counselor: -or if you allude to knowing anything about child abuse or elder abuse, umm, you know, I-I am required to report that. Ok? Client: Mmmhmm. Counselor: Umm, and then, I just also want to let you know about the boundaries to my competency. Client: Mmhmm. Counselor: I am strictly a trainee, I am a student. So umm, you know, Im just here to practice basic listening skills, umm, Im not trained to give you any actual advice. If you do feel like you need counseling, umm, we do have a counseling center on campus that I would be glad to make you an appointment with, ok? Client: Alrighty. Counselor: Alright. And then, umm, before we get started I also want to, you know, just bring up, umm, we do have a lot of differences, umm, we have some similarities as well. We are both women, umm, Im a white woman, youre a black woman, umm and, youre and educator and Im a student, and youve been married and have children, and Ive never been married or have children. Umm, so we do have some differences, and umm, so we may not see the world the same, we may not view everything the same. Umm, so if there is ever anything that youre, uh, talking about that I dont understand just, umm, bare with me. I want to ask for your forgiveness and, umm, willingness to explain it further to me to help me understand as much as possible. Ok? Client: Alright. Counselor: Alright, well umm. You know, being in class with you and what not, I have learned a little bit about you.

Client: Ok. Counselor: Umm, so I justClient: What do you know about me? Counselor: Umm, well I guess I know that youre married. You have children. Client: Yep. Counselor: Umm, I know that you LOVE your children. I know that you dont mind saying what you mean. I know that you are corky, and you know-I know a lot about your personality and what not, at least your personality in class, because you did say that you have split personalities sometimes. Client: Sometimes in class. Counselor: That-thats true as well. But, umm, I just wanted to see if there was anything, uh, specific on your heart today that you wanted to talk about with me. Client: Lets see. Well what would you like to know? About me that you dont know? Counselor: Well, umm, I want to know a little bit about your background, if you would want to tell me. Umm, because I know that you said that umm, you know, getting your doctorate completely changed your life and your familys life and-and everything. And, umm, youve talked a little bit about where you come from, but not much. Client: Ok. Umm, a little bit about my background. I am- uh I grew up in a really small, low income, poor neighborhood called Braddock, and its right outside Pittsburg, PA. And its, umm, kind of-its close to the river and it used to be like a-uh-a very industrial steel mill kind of town. Umm, my grandparents all worked in a steel mill and that was a really lucrative business, and then umm, when the steel industry changed that town went really really really poor. And so crime, and drugs, and a lot of other things set in in the 80s and so I grew up umm, in that town where there was just a lot of umm, -there was a lot of love because it felt very communal, but now I think retrospectively and with my training I can see I was enmeshed in a lot of umm, mental health issues, I suppose. Umm, I am-I come from a single parent home, my mother raised me and-uh three of my brothers and sisters. I have an older brother, a younger sister, and an older sister that I grew up with. Uh, my father wasnt in my life very much at all, umm, the memories I do have of him are these flashes of abusive events and incidents with my mother and us running from him and moving from place to place. So thats the gist of my memories of my father primarily. Ummwhat else? Umm, so growing up in that environment I didnt have a lot of influence and models of umm, what I want to be when I grow up, you know. I think the furthest outreach for a career that I had was the interactions I had with teachers, and unfortunately all of the teachers and umm, key professional individuals that I interacted with in the school system-none of them looked like me. And so umm, really I think that umm, a big part of my upbringing, and a lot of black childrens upbringings, is that what keeps you in school is activities in sports, and so I was really a student athlete. And uh-I played basketball and I ran track, and umm, the last year of my high school career my mother moved us one more time, and umm, I moved to the-our rival school district kind of, Pent Hills. And so, we moved there, and Im so glad-I was so sad when we moved because no one wants to move their senior year when you grew up entirely with one school district, and especially not to the rival school, but it was such

a great move because I wasnt college bound until I got to this new school. And when I got to this new school I had a guidance counselor who was a black female, and she really just took the time to talk to me about what was next. And you-we-you know you hear about college and things like that, and my mom saying she wanted us to go to college and an education was so important, but there wasnt any context around that. And so umm, moving there really set me on the college track, and I think everything that happened after that was just kind of a series of me doing what comes next and doing what comes next, and umm, doing a lot of walking out on faith, trusting that there was something bigger for me than umm- beyond what I could see. So, thats a little bit about my background. Counselor: Wow. Well it looks like youve definitely come much further than, you know, where you started out. UmmClient: Is my background surprising to you? Counselor: Well, from what youve said before, umm, you know, I knew that you came from a poorer area and that you really wanted to go above and beyond umm, what-you know I guess was more expected of where you come from. Client: Mmhmm. Counselor: Umm, and so I mean I knew a little bit about that, so that part wasnt really surprising. I think the most surprising was-umm, about your dad and having to move from place to place. Umm, because I could never fully understand having to go through that. Client: Mmhmm. Counselor: Umm, but you also mentioned umm, that you didnt think where you came from had any impact on what you wanted to do, but then you also said that umm, looking back there were a lot of mental health issues where you came from and also, you know, coming from an abusive home when your dad was there. You dont think that had any impact? Client: Umm, I think that on some unconscious level perhaps. I think Ive always been very empathic and I was-what I remember most about my childhood is crying all the time, and not fearful/sadness crying, but always having this really umm, salient connection with emotions. I just remember being really really emotional my entire childhood, and that was so different than everyone else. And I didnt know if everyone just didnt feel as intensely as I did or they didnt express it, and I think that umm, on some unconscious level its always been there, th-this helping altruistic- connecting with people- being very empathic-, thats always been a part of who I am, but I think that I never-its hard to take what youre passionate about and align it with something thats purposeful- you know, and also prosperous. Like that took a while to realize that umm, I love helping people, Im very emotional, and God has given me some gift of communication, and like-what does that mean? You know, Id never seen a counselor, umm I had no exposure to like-college professors or umm-. The only outlet for that-that was conceivable for me was being a teacher, but there was a part of me that always wanted to be a teacher and when I graduated from my doctorate program my mother reminded. She said, you remember you used to umm, she said I used to put up umm-what was it, I cant remember. Something on the wall where you could write chalk on it, and I would put it up on the wall, and Id line all my baby dolls and teddy bears up and Id have class with them all the time. And every time we were allowed to get toys, like I would just get things that were of an educator-like oh I can teach my babies this. And so anytime she saw me

playing I was either playing out being a mom or I was playing out being a teacher, and I forgot about those memories. So I think its always been there, but umm, you hit a certain place in your life when theres context for the past and as a child I didnt have that language, you know. I didnt understand that I was in an abusive, came from an abusive family situation, I didnt understand a single parent mom-you know, she was just mom. I didnt realize she was my age, with four children by herself, with no college education, no resources. We didnt have a car, living in like a one bedroom at times in efficiency-just these things I could imagine having to do right now for my children, that now all of a sudden-especially becoming a mother, I have so much more context for watching children grow up, and my childhood, and the perceptions of a child, and whats important to you as a child. And it just gives you umm, a different perspective on hindsight. So, I think now I have the language for some things, and umm, that segways into-in terms of my family structure, what was around me was-my mother was a victim of domestic violence-now I have the language for that. My brother had some serious psychological issues, that as a child I used to go why does Mike always go hunting, he used to hurt animals and had a BB gun, and I just thought he liked to hunt, you know, it was this boy thing. He was the only boy in my life so, it was just a gender specific quality, but now as a doctor Im like-yeah that wasnt right, that was really weird, and he probably shouldnt have been doing that, and he had some other problems. And umm, my older sister-I was watching her live through gay identity development as a child, and umm-you know. I remember her being like eight years old and she had a recital or concert or something and she hated dresses, like hated them. My mom dressed her up. And I remember like-why do you look like that? And the words for that was that I always felt like when my sister dressed up like a girl she looked like she was in drag. Like it never was a good fit, it never-even as I remember us being like teeny teeny teeny, I had to be like two years old, and I would wear a bathing suit and my brother and my older sister would wear trunks to swim. And I had like-I just remember weird gender nonspecific things that Id be like, why dont you have to have make up? You know, and I wanted a perm and curls, and she wanted a really tight afro or like a high top fade, and just, and it was the just way, you know, it-you dont have a language for it so you just make it specific to that persons personality. And umm, my youngest sister went through a really troubled-behavioral issues in school, she didnt graduate from high school, umm, a lot of promiscuity in the neighborhood, things like that. And in hindsight I didnt know until three years ago, but in hindsight-textbook classic sexual abuse. You know, and I didnt know until three years ago when she shared with me that she had experienced sexual abuse. And so, there were a lot of things around me that umm, looking back now, I think Ive always been in a place of being a healer and being empathic, and the intense emotions I thought I felt had so much to do with what my family was surviving and going through, and watching different things play out. So maybe it was always written, but I didnt find it until later. Counselor: Well, uh. Client: Is that a lot? Counselor: Yes. Client: What are you thinking? Counselor: Well umm, youve definitely had a lot of experiences growing up with, kind of the same thing you deal with in your profession, umm, obviously. Umm, and in some ways, you know, Im sure it was hard, but it gives you so much more knowledge and experience umm, for what you do now. Client: Mmhmm.

Counselor: And, like you said, I mean-it could definitely be unconscious, you know-umm, going through what you experienced growing-growing up, you know, I mean-not only with your siblings, but you know, where you came from and your parents, and you know, everything combined. Of course you didnt know back then, exactly what, you know, what it was-like you said you didnt have the language or what not. But-yeah, you definitely have more experience for it umm. But like you said, you did get your masters in counseling and then your mother reminded you about teaching. Client: Mmhmm. Counselor: Umm, and I know you did do the counseling side of it before, for a few years. Umm, so now that youre a teacher umm, for-you know-for what you went to school for, do you think thats-this is exactly where you were meant to be, or do you think its both sides of it? Client: Umm, I think that right now Im exactly where I need to be. Umm, it brings purpose to me, and thats a good feeling, but umm, so many different things that I spent most of my life feeling like they were these random acts of unconnectedness that now Im in a profession where all of the different skill sets that Ive had and the experiences that Ive had-I can do so much with them now, you know? It has made me really equipped with a diverse arsenal of teaching techniques and methods and ways to umm, make material and a topic very personal to students. Umm, but I spent a long period of time thinking that-umm, why am I doing all these things, like just random stuff. For instance, in undergrad umm, I got licensed to do cosmetology, so I worked at a salon. I did hair, and Im so good at it, and I think its because I have an artist in me. Umm, I draw and I paint. I went into the military for a while, was in the army for a couple years umm, just really random experiences that I had-I worked at the YMCA for a very very long time, and umm, I just kind of like, everything I did-it just didnt have any kind of glue pulled it all together. And now in-in my profession, it is, it makes some sense why I had all of these experiences cause I have a lot to draw from. But I do think Im exactly where I need to be. I do have a very strong calling to get back to therapy umm, cause Im good at it. And I think that is cause God has really given me a spirit of being a healing agent, and umm. So I know at some point in time I need to do private practice, but umm, I-I will always do that along side teacher cause teaching is just such a good fit for me, you know, I dont know if I would be good at anything else, but Im really good at teaching. Umm, thats a good feeling, cause I-you know, coming from my background I always deal with the cognitive dissonance of imposter syndrome-feeling like Im not here, why are people calling me a doctor? You know, and I think anytime you finish your degree you feel like theres no way that happened, and Im still waiting for someone to call me like-we found something wrong with your paper work, we want your doctorate back umm, but its not going to happen-like, its mine. And umm, so I deal with that and then also the fact that once you-Americas strange in that the title doctor comes with a status and prestige that has nothing to do with your income, it has nothing to do with anything except for just a title. Like, we here doctor-were like oh, you must be ok. And so of course from my background-my family think that Im very umm, well off and comfortable, and I am, but Im also like not just like ballin, but education has taught me how to make money go further and make really good financial decisions, and umm, I know how to have more than one stream of income, like my entire income is not just dependant on one job, theres a lot of things that Im doing that umm, bring in income as well. And so, I think that that has been the biggest shift and that is exacerbated by the part of me that because higher ed has been predominately white male, being a very young black female and my background have really informed how I teach and how I connect with students, and its so different than any other classroom, and I know that having been in college, but also just from students reactions they are very surprised of how I teach and how I handle the material and what we do in class. And they are even more surprised

that afterwards, theyve actually learned something too, we werent just kind of, playing around in class as well. So umm, but I know that for my colleagues who evaluate my work, thats different, its very different. Its kind of like, what are you doing in class?-Im like, were having group-like why are yall in group?-cause theyre having group therapy. I had a colleague ask me, well what do you do if they really bring up deep issues?-Im like, we talk about them. You know, and umm, but its interesting to see, just the response to it, and umm, coming to Georgia Southern has been great for me cause Ive been really, even when I was recruited on my interview umm, colleagues, Dr. Stewart and Dr. Spencer were just like, dont change a thing about who you are when you come here, no matter what, dont change a thing, you know. And I took a lot of uh-umm, classes from folks that are-like Dr. Spencer retired and hes kind of given me cross-culture, hes like-make it yours you know, and hes taught it for fifteen twenty years, hes like make it yours, I fully trust you. And so, for someone who is that-uh-skilled in that area and has been doing this for a long time and is very successful and they are inspired by who I am as a young professional and excited, it was just so affirming for me like, Im alright?-I can do this?-Yes! You might be creating a whole other pedagogy and way of doing things but do it, its working. So thats been a really really helpful part of my professional identity. Counselor: Has that helped your imposter syndrome? Client: It has, it has. I think that I am an imposter. Ive kind of embraced it umm, I am an imposter Im a complete anomaly. Nobody knows how young I am, their-they kind of assume, and Im comfortable with that. Im-Im not very old at all, Im only 32. And people do that when I say that because apparently they think Im like 40 or like 38-ish, but like umm. No, Im still so so young and thats important, I think, for people to know and be inspired by. So. Counselor: Well, that obviously affects the way you teach umm, like you said. Umm, do you think that it affects it in a-in a positive way for the way that umm, your students respond? Client: Mmmm. Positive and negative, more positive than negative. I think that uh, when I walk in a classroom what Im up against is umm, the racial barrier because theres a lot of students that have never had a black professor, let alone a black female professor, let alone a black female professor who is their age or younger. So, I have those competing uh, demographics up against me when I walk into a classroom. Students think Im a student, I could pass for a student-generally. Umm, so thats a part of it. The other part of it is with those competing dynamics umm, theres a creditability issue. When I walk into a classroom the students kind of get to know me, they want to know Im credible. Like if youre too young, you know-what is it about you, like-why are you our teacher?-what can I learn from you? And umm, the way that Ive learned to deal with that is that umm, I dont answer the question. I dont really try very hard to umm, separate myself from students. I try to teach, I do peer teaching, I-I-its important to me that students feel equality in the classroom, and I have some insight to offer, but I want us to generate meaning and knowledge together and be part of a process where we will all become better and grow. And I think because of that the authority lines kind of diminish. Theres a respect that I think students have for me, but umm, I dont feel like they-the respect comes from their experience in the classroom and not just like, oh I have this old professor that I have to respect because theyve been around forever, its earned in a different way. And I think that umm, its kind of like if someone wants to fight you but you wont fight, it seems really ridiculous. So I dont get into a power struggle in the classroom with students, I just kind ofinteract with them like theyre my peers and when students are older than me Im so respectful of umm, my elders in the classroom. So I think that thats the difference. I just kind of have a different philosophy about learning.

Counselor: Right. And thats one thing I was kind of wondering is umm, if you think that once you get past those barriers that you were talking about if umm, you know-if you do have a deeper trust and umm, respect for you than they would if someone that just was older and white and male and walked in. Client: Mmhmm. I think its a different-I dont know if its more, but I think its different. I think that umm, the respect that students have for Dr. Haizlip is different than the respect that students have for Dr. Burgen, its just different. Umm, and-but I know and Im comfortable with that respect that Im given comes from umm, the experience that students have in the classroom, and I wouldnt want it any other way. And I think what is different, and well talk about this-we talk about this a lot in my cross-cultural courses, is that umm, part of the privilege that comes with being male and part of the privilege that comes with being white and upper middle class is that youre given the benefit of the doubt. Umm, when a white male, older white male walks into the classroom the assumption is that he is knowledgeable, and so he has to really fuck up for it to like, you know, for you to be like-hes kind of an idiot, but the students assume that hes qualified, capable, and credible right off the bat; whereas, what I am up against not having those privileges, not being male, not being white, not coming from umm, an upper middle class family, all of those different dimensions of my identity that makes me a minority is that I al-I walk into a situation and have to overcome barriers, which is kind of different. You know, and so, but I think my gift is that I used them in there-they can be powerful tools for educating the students. I want my students to see me as black. I want them to see me as female. Im comfortable with students knowing my age, and that doesnt take away from umm, my gifts or my knowledge in the subject area. Counselor: Like you said, its more earned than just assumed. Client: Yeah, earned privilege is very different than unearned privilege. And that would probably be the difference between me and umm, other professors that have some of those privileges. Counselor: Well umm, I wanted to kind of go from there and segway into your family umm, that you were talking about earlier cause umm, I know you mentioned you know, that you family as in your mom and your siblings and what not, but umm, your family today. Your husband and your little girls umm, you know-now that you have them and you are a doctor and what not, when you look back at where you came from and your upbringing and what not umm, do you generally look back and are happy and excited that your-that you changed that for your children, or are you still kind of sad when you look back? Client: Mmhmm. Umm, Im mostly very encouraged. Uh, this summer we drove from Washington over here to Georgia and we stopped in Maryland and in Pennsylvania. And the reason we stopped in Pennsylvania was to visit my mom, but I wanted them to see where I grew up. And so we went back to my old neighborhood and drove through the alley that I used to live in, and umm, I showed them the park that I played in as a kid. And so the first that I remember is when you cross this bridge to get into like-the hood umm, I remember my oldest daughter like, are the doors locked?-you know. She had this response like-why are we in this place?-and as I started telling them this is where I grew up they were like-uhhhh, mannn, this was your house?-you know-and I was like, yeah, this is where mommy lived, and umm, some of the same people still lived there on the streets and umm, families that I was familiar with. And it was just really interesting to watch my children, theyre so bougee, they have such a umm, different sense of upbringing like, you know. They live in like a 4,000 square foot house, like, you know. Its-theyre not even like-theres a pool, like theres not even like-its-theyre completely different than umm, my upbringing. And so umm, for them, they dont have the context yet for that, like. It was

interesting for me watching their reactions, and Im proud but theres also some values that umm, I want to be protective about that I got from living there. I want them to care about social justice, I want them to care about equality, I want them to understand poverty, and be very aware that they have privileges that a lot of people dont have and to not take advantage of those things and you know, make sure that they are growing up in an educational setting like, theyve been around college their whole life you know. College is like work, you know-where you going?-to school, like-why is everyone going to school? And umm, my daughter asked me the other day why am I-why do I need to stay in school like forever?-you and daddy are still in school-I was like-well Im not really in school, she like-but you do go to school, and Im like-well technically yeah, but umm. And I told her that umm, well if you dont go to school then people will pay you for your time, and I said, if you do go to school then people will pay you for your gifts. And she was like-well what does that mean?-and I was like-well, mommy has a lot of time to be home and be involved in your life and thats because the school pays me for my gifts, so I only work nine hours a week cause they pay for my gifts, but when mommy wasnt in school people paid me for my time, so I had to work all day and all night and thats why I wasnt home a lot because people were paying for my time, she was like-ohhh, I want my time, and I was like-I know. So, it was interesting to hear her umm-like she understands that, you know. And I know that comes from-she is growing up in an academic environment umm, were teaching her how to be a thinker. So, its different, than from how I grew up. Counselor: You must be really proud of that. Client: I am. Im proud of the women that my children are becoming, and my partner has so much more to do with that probably than me, but umm, hes an amazing dad. Counselor: Why do you think that he has more to do with it than you? Client: Umm, in my-in my marriage we dont have a lot of gender roles. We are umm, a couple that we play to our strengths, and hes good with our daughters. And Ive always been-had a role for my family as a provider umm, Ive always kind of worked, and brought in the most income and when we were having children it was like you know, hes dealing with the kids and I kept working, just different things like that. And hes an anomaly in terms of dads, like all of the schools know him very well, he does pick up and drop off every morning and every day, hes at all the doctors appointments, hes at all the soccer games, hes just involved so much. He does homework with the kids, and hes so much a part of umm, everything they do and much of that I miss out on because of my, you know-like umm, being a graduate professor, I teach at night. So, I miss the night t-routine, but then Im off all day, but they are in school, and so, just things like that. And umm, yeah hes just amazing, and I kind of coach him on being a father, Im like-well you realize its a girl, so you have to go about this differently you know, dont tell her its bad to cry, let her cry then talk to her about her feelings, and hes like-oh ok, youre right, I messed up on that one, I told her it was wrong. So hes just umm, hes a great parent, hes really a great parent. Counselor: But umm, you said-and it seems like that a lot of who theyre becoming has to do with, like you said, growing up in an academic environment umm, and what not. So that would have a lot to do with you too, as well as not having gender roles and playing to you know, yalls strengths like you said. Umm, you know, Im sure that has a lot to do with what-with how theyre growing up, so. Client: I hope so, I hope so. I see myself as like, I am like umm, me, my work, the things that Ive done as a provider, I am such- I am kind of like the foundation or the pillar of-just the pillar by which my family is being built upon. And so because of that, I dont get a lot of direct interaction like I want to, I do, but like umm, my-my partner, hes a good father, not only just because hes amazing and theres a natural quality that he has as a nurturer, but also because I have completely cleared our life out of any

distractions, so all he has to do is go to school, be successful, and be a good father, you know, thats it, everything else is covered. So umm- and thats an understanding that we have in our relationship in this season, and its a beautiful dance that we have going on and umm, but I dont ever want to take the credit for the part of parenting that is his accomplishment cause thats important. When you take a man out of tradition gender roles society can tell you its demasculating, and so he needs something that hes good at, and hes good at holding our family down, and he should have that. And so, he wears it with a badge of honor. But hes a great husband and a great father, and thats just as important as if he was the breadwinner in our household. And so, not being the breadwinner that comes with enough like, insecurities and so I want to make sure that I really build him up any other way, just like he builds me up, like-guess I cant ask you to cook the bacon since you bought it, Im like-yes!, you know. But he lets me have that too because we need to feel good about what we bring to our family and our relationship, and even though its very gender nonconformist in a lot of ways theres still value to it and so, thats why I say the women that they are becoming in this season, he laid the foundation for their childhood in a lot of ways, I might have set our family up, but he set our children up to you know. He finds their schools, their doctors-he does everything you know, I just kind of throw tid bits and write checks, and give referrals and say thats not going to work we got to find-you know, I get called in. A good example is umm, my daughter starts school and it was a really really bad fit for her, hed come home everyday like shes just crying when I drop her off, Im like-just give her some time, and finally he was like- I just think that you should come this morning because I just dont feel right about this. So two weeks into it, then mom gets called in, so that we can make a decision together, but the first two weeks hes doing all of that and I kind of get called in to talk about it if its an issue, so. Counselor: Well, I understand building him up and-and what hes doing in his role and what not, but it seems like in that you are kind of down playing your role. Client: Well, I feel good about my role. Umm, I think that it takes a while-when you take an approach in your relationship that isnt gender specific it takes a while for us to really work through, on an interpersonal level, insecurities that come with what umm, the world tells you you should be like as a mom. You know, I still have umm, I still feel sad when my youngest cries and she doesnt want mom, she wants dad, because thats who shes used to being there. I still feel that sense of mmm.. : (. I hate that Im not in some pictures and umm, it wont be that way forever, but the first part Ive made a great sacrifice. Umm, my two year old, I popped her out four weeks early cause I insisted the doctor to do so cause I had a statistics test and I was writing my dissertation. I popped her out four weeks early and I breast fed for like two weeks, and then put her on a bottle, and I was back at school, and my husband was home with her, and thats huge, you know. But I-during the first two years of her life, I left at five in the morning and I didnt come home every night until probably about midnight, and when I was home on weekends I was writing and working on my dissertation. So, I dont think-Im not consciously downplaying it, but Im being honest about-that wasnt-in this season of our life that wasnt the area that my contribution was, my contribution was the sustainability and the foundation, you know. My husband couldnt be a good father if all of the bills werent taken care of you know, he has nothing to worry about but our kids, and every time he opens the closet my children have clothes and plenty of options, every time he takes them to the doctors he pulls out an insurance card that comes from my job and my work you know, when he cooks for them at night I bought everything in there, not only have I paid for it, but I do the running too you know, and umm, my partners diabetic and he never has to worry about his medical care because its done, its taken care of, and not only that, every day they walk into the house, our house is spotless, laundrys done. And so I have a different role, Im not necessarily always at every soccer game, but I have all of these background roles that-it feels good. I dont get the outward recognition that kids are like, yay you were at my game, and those things count, its just not my

season to run in that lane, and that wont be forever but, you know. Part of being in a healthy relationship is playing your role for the season that you are in, and trying to do it with the least amount of resentment and feel confident in the contribution that you have to your family at that time. Counselor: So, looking back umm, you wouldnt change the sacrifices that you made or the role that you played? Client: No, I wouldnt. Because umm, my spirituality is the center of my life, and God created me to be someone that-Im not so gifted and so talented and so special, but the gift that he gave me is that I can endure more pain than anyone-than most people, and umm, my husband could not have done what I did, physically you know, with his diabetes and what he can do, he could not have pushed out a baby, commuted five hours a day. Theres a lot of things that hes just not built for that umm, and I am, because I have more endurance, and I can tolerate a lot, and I can see things through and, you know, I can draw on my strength when theres nothing left and umm. So Im built to run the race that I-that Ive run. And now, its his time, hes running his race, hes going through graduate school, and hes going to go into a doctoral program and umm, hes going to be amazing. And sometimes I get pissed cause Im like, youve got all the privilege-like his professors are my friends, and you know, they dont give him any concessions for the relationship but, because he has insight that I didnt have you know, like, he knows academia because his wifes a professor, and so hes navigating like, uh-uh-uh-pitfall please I saw that coming, my wife went through that. And so, sometimes Im like, must be nice to only have to worry about school, you know? Counselor: Little bit of resentment there? Client: Yeah! A lot of resentment, but we talk about it and he is so apologetic and so thankful and umm, but more importantly I know that God used me to clear those hurdles for him because he has a very great task that is part of what he will do. And there arent a lot of young black American male professors and when he does that hes going to reach a lot of people, and umm, God just used me to clear the path so he could run. Counselor: Well its really amazing that you have that insight to see your role and everything, and umm, you know, what youre doing for your husband now, even if there is a little resentment there. Client: Thats the human part of me. Counselor: Exactly. And thats ok. Umm, bu-but its just great to see how-how open your eyes are, but umm. It was really great to hear you know, a little bit about your background, umm and your teaching style and influence and-and what not, and then your contribution with your family now, umm, and I-I want to thank you for coming in today. Client: Absolutely. Counselor: And it was really great speaking with you.