Case: State of Missouri v. Darren Wilson Transcript of: Grand Jury Volume XIII Date: October 16, 2014 This transcript is printed on 100% recycled paper Gor: Rea 515 Olive Street, Suite 300 St. Louis, MO 63101 (314) 241-6750 1-800-878-6750 Fax: (314) 241-5070 Email: schedule@goreperry.com Internet: < >State of Missouri v. Darren Wilson Grand Jury Volume XIII October 16, 2014 Page 1 DARREN WILSON GRAND JURY ber 16, VOLUME XIII Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 www.goreperry.com Electronically slaned by B4dabe1-2279-4718-a080-beaaeesiebiaElectronically slaned by iv. Darren Wilson Grand Jury Volume XIII October 16, 2014 1 SUIT COURT OF LOUIS COUNTY 2 STATE OF MISSOURI 3 4 STATE OF MISSOURI é 7 vs. 8 9 DARREN WILSON 10 1 12 The following is a hearing before the Grand 13 Jury of St. Louis County, at the offices of st. 14 Louis County Prosecuting Attorney's Office, 100 5 South Central Avenue, in the City of Clayton, State 16 of Missouri, on the 16th day o: 17 before 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 www.goreperry.com [343a6e1.1279-47 15-aa60-b9420633e92aState of Mi: souri v. Darren Wilson Grand Jury Volume XIII October 16, 2014 3 1 APPEARANCES OF COUNS 2 3. FOR THE STATE: 4 Ms. Kathi Alizadeh & Ms. Sheila Whirley 5 t Prosecuting Attorneys for ouis é 7 100 South Central Avenue, 2nd Floor 8 Clayton, MO 63105 9 (314) 615-2600 10 1 12 13 14 16 7 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 www.goreperry.com Electronically slaned by B4dabe1-2279-4718-a080-beaaeesiebiaElectronically slaned by State of Missouri v. Darren Wilson Grand Jury Volume XIII October 16, 2014 rage 5 | 1 GRAND JURY HEARING VOLUME XIII | 2 MS. ALIZADEH: Good morning. | 3 {All say good morning.) | 4 WITNESS 34, | 5 of lawful age, having been first duly sworn to | 6 testify the truth, the whole truth, and | 7 nothing but the truth in the case aforesaid, | & deposes and says in reply to oral | 9 interrogatories, propounded as follows, to-wit: | 10 EXAMINATION | 11 MS. ALIZADEH: Now, this is Kathi | 12 Alizadeh. It is October 16th, 2014, it is 9:14. | 13 This is the first of the day. We hada little late | 14 start today. I'm present, with Sheila whirley from | 15 the prosecutor's office, all 12 grand jurors are | 16 present, as is the court reporter and we're getting | 17 ready to hear from the first witness of the day who | 18 has been sworn. | 19 BY MS. ALIZADEH: | 20 @ You and I met with your attorney and | 21 Sheila prior to you coming in here today; is that | 22 right? | 23 A That's right. | 24 Q And remember that I told you that the | 25 court reporter is taking things down and there will | Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 Www.goreperry.com [343a6e1.1279-47 15-aa60-b9420633e92aState of Missouri v. Darren Wilson Grand Jury Volume XIII October 16, 2014 rage 6] 1 be a recording, but before we start the recording | 2 I'm going to have you introduce yourself. Do you | 3 remember me telling you that? | 4 A Yeah, uh-huh. | 5 Q And then I told you that after we start | 6 the recording, we are going to refer to you by a | 7 number instead of your name, okay? | 8 A Right. | 9 Q And your number is going to be 34, okay? | 10 A Okay. | 11 @ So could you please state your name for | 12 the grand jurors? 13 A Witness 34. | 14 @ And how old are you, sir? | 5 A | 16 Q And whereabouts do you live? | 17 A (Redacted) | 18 Q Okay. (Redacted) | 19 A (Redacted) | 20 @ How long have you lived in the St. Louis 21 area? 22 A I have been in St. Louis since = Q Do you live in the Canfield Green 24 Apartment Complex? 25 A No, I have a : Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 Www.goreperry.com Electronically slaned by B4dabe1-2279-4718-a080-beaaeesiebiaState of Missouri v. Darren Wilson Grand Jury Volume XIII October 16, 2014 Page 7 Q Okay. A . Q And what do you do, what kind of work to do you do for a living? A Sort of like work. Q Okay. All right. Now having been identified, I will ew Ao es wn have the court reporter start the recording and then 9 we will have you, we will refer to you by your 10 number, okay? ql A All right. 12 Q (By Ms. Alizadeh) Sir, prior to the 13 recording being started, you identified yourself and 14 for the recording purposes we're going to refer to 15 you as Witness Number 34; is that right? 16 A That's all right. 7 Q And, sir, just back up a little bit and 18 restate what you already said, how old a man are 19 you? 20 A 21 Q And you live ? 22 A Right. 23 Q All right. Are you familiar with the 24 Canfield Green Apartment Complex? 25 A Part of it, yes. Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 Www.goreperry.com Electronically slaned by B4dabe1-2279-4718-a080-beaaeesiebiaState of Missouri v. Darren Wilson Grand Jury Volume XIII October 16, 2014 vege | a Q You've been there before? | 2 A Yes. | 3 Q I'm going to show you Grand Jury Number | 4 25, which is a map, an aerial view of some streets | 5 and buildings. This being Canfield Drive, do you | 6 recognize that as being streets and buildings that | 7 will be Canfield Green Apartment Complex? 8 A Yes, uh-huh. 9 Q Okay. And, sir, do you remember 10 August 9th of this year, which was a Saturday? 11 A Yes, uh-huh. 12 Q And earlier that morning, did anything 13. special happen? 14 A Yes. 15 Q Prior to what you ended up seeing that you 16 are here for today, prior to the shooting, did 17 anything unusual or special happen in the morning? 18 A Before the shooting? nd Q Right. 20 A Uh, well, nothing. I was on my way to 21 work and I had 22 to come back and get it. 23 Q Okay. So you 24 2 25 A Uh-huh, yeah. Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 Www.goreperry.com Electronically slaned by B4dabe1-2279-4718-a080-beaaeesiebiaState of Missouri v. Darren Wilson Grand Jury Volume XIII October 16, 2014 rage 9] 1 Q And so you said you were leaving for work? | 2 Be eights | 3 @ Do you remember about what time of day it | 4 was that you were leaving for work? | 5 A I don't know exactly what time, but it was | 6 in the morning. | 7 @ And do you recall this being a Saturday? =| 8 A As far as I can remember, yes. | 9 Q Was it light outside? | 10 A Yes, it was light. | 1. Q Okay. And how was it that you were | 12 leaving for work? 13 A 14 15 I turned around to 16 come back the Canfield 17 Apartments. 18 Q So you were all the way to 19 and then you had to return around and come back to 20 the Canfield Apartments? 21 A Uh-huh. 22 Q When you were coming back to the 23 apartments, when you got to the apartment complex, 24 were you coming from West Florissant or were you 25 coming the back way? Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 Www.goreperry.com Electronically slaned by B4dabe1-2279-4718-a080-beaaeesiebiaElectronically slaned by State of Mi: souri v. . Darren Wilson. Grand Jury Volume XIII October 16, 2014 1 A 2 Q 3 here, and 4 A 5 Q 6 A 7? Q 8 A 9 Q 10 back then, 1 A 12 Q 13 A 14 Q 16 A 7 Q 18 two-door, Page 10 No, I was Flor ant. coming from Wes Ok If this is West Florissant over I'm motioning to the left of the map. Right. You can't see West Flori ant on this map. Right, okay. You came in from this direction? Right, right. What kind do you have, at least what were you driving? Okay. And is this a Right, it is a Does it have anything on It has a And what about, is it a four-door or 19 A It is 20 Q And about what year is it? 21 A 5 22 Q And so when you were coming back to the 23 Canfield Green Apartments, were you driving that 24 2 A Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 www.goreperry.com [343a6e1.1279-47 15-aa60-b9420633e92aState of Missouri v. Darren Wilson Grand Jury Volume XIII October 16, 2014 Page 11 Q And you were driving this direction on Canfield Drive? (indicating) A Right. Q Okay. Now, right here in front of you is a laser pointer. ous ene A Uh-huh. Q And there's a little gray button right 8 there. So if you press it, you can use that to show 9 on the map. 10 So as you were, let me ask you this, 11 were you with somebody in your 2 12 A Yes, one of the guys that work with me. 13 Q Is this guy somebody that is a friend of 14 yours? 5 A Well, I call him a friend. I help him out 16 a lot. 17 Q Do you know his name? 18 A » he goes by. I never question him 19 too much, he never likes me getting into his 20 business too much. 21 Q = You call him 2 | 22 A Right. | 23 Q And he's | 24 A | 25 Q And you've worked with him though? | Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 Www.goreperry.com Electronically slaned by B4dabe1-2279-4718-a080-beaaeesiebiaState of Missouri v. Darren Wilson Grand Jury Volume XIII October 16, 2014 11 Canfield Green Apartment Complex, did you see Page 12 | 1 A Yeah, I've worked with him several times. | 2 @ So was he going to work with you that day? | 3 A Yes, uh-huh, right. | 4 @ Do you know is he African-American or is | 5 he Caucasian? | é A African-American. | 7 Q Okay. So is just a name you call | & him? | 9 A Right, uh-huh. | 10 Q So as you entered, were coming into the | 12 anything unusual? 13 A Yes, when we got turned into Canfield, 14 coming up Canfield, all of the sudden, I call it a 15 truck, but it is like a van, more like a van, you 16 know what I'm saying? And it is parked kind across 17 the street and there is a car in front of us, okay. 18 And we saw the police and a young man struggling. 19 Q Okay. So let me stop you. Use that 20 pointer and show me was the police car on Canfield 21 Drive on this main street? 22 A Yeah, it was headed back towards West 23 Florissant. It is on this street. If this is West 24 Florissant, it is on this street here. I can't 25 think of exactly whereabout in there, but somewhere. Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 Www.goreperry.com Electronically slaned by B4dabe1-2279-4718-a080-beaaeesiebiaState of Missouri v. Darren Wilson Grand Jury Volume XIII October 16, 2014 Page 13 But anyway, his car was headed back towards West Florissant. Q Okay. A The police car was. There was one car right in front of me when I was there. My car there, I'm just not saying definitely this is the spot. My car there and another car right there and ew Ao es wn the police car right there headed back that way. 9 (indicating) 10 Q Okay. So he was, you were facing the 11 police car? 12 A Right. 13 Q And his police car was facing you? 14 A I'm sorry, say that again? 15 Q Was the police car then facing? 16 A Right, right, right, like coming back 17 toward West Florissant. 18 Q Okay. Now, was this a marked police car? nd A It had police on it, Ferguson Police. 20 @ You could tell by looking at it, it was a 21 police car? 22 A Yeah, uh-huh. 23 Q And did it have like a light bar on it, do 24 you remember? 25 A Yeah, yeah, it was one of the regular Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 Www.goreperry.com Electronically slaned by B4dabe1-2279-4718-a080-beaaeesiebiaState of Missouri v. Darren Wilson Grand Jury Volume XIII October 16, 2014 11 like across the street so nobody can really get by, Page 14] 1 police cars of Ferguson, like the van thing like. | 2 You know, it looked like a SUV or something like | 3 that. I'm not for sure. | 4 Q Were the lights on the car going, like the | 5 red and blue lights, do you recall them being on? | é A No, I don't, I don't recall that. | 7 Q Okay. So was that police car when you | & first saw it, was it moving or was it standing | 9 still? | 10 A It was sitting still, but it was kind of = | 12 you know what I'm saying? 13 Q Okay. So did you have to stop your car? 14 A Yes, yes, we had to stop. 15 Q And the car in front of you, was it 16 stopped also? uv A Yes, it was stopped. 18 @ Do you remember anything about the car in 19 front of you? 20 A It was white and he turned around and then 21 I remember, I had to be close to one of those exits 22 there, one of those because I turned around in one 23 of those exits and went back out. And then I came 24 around to the back part and came in off of Chambers, 25 I came in off of Chambers back there. Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 Www.goreperry.com Electronically slaned by B4dabe1-2279-4718-a080-beaaeesiebiaState of Missouri v. Darren Wilson Grand Jury Volume XIII October 16, 2014 Page 15| 1 Q So we'll get to that part. That happens | 2 ina little bit, right? | 3 A Right, uh-huh. | 4 Q@ So you don't turn around immediately? | 5 A No, no, I don't turn around immediately. | é @ Okay. So there is a white car in front of | 7 you? 8 A Uh-huh. 8 Q And could you see the people in the white 10 car, people or person? 11 A I wasn't really paying attention to them, 12 you know, I don't remember seeing them, I was 13 looking at the police truck really. 14 Q What did you see at the police truck? 15 A Well, the police and the young man, they 16 were struggling. The young man was standing outside 17 the window and the police inside the window. And he 18 had ahold of the young man, and the young man had 19 ahold of him, and they are struggling with one 20 another. 21 Q Okay. So could you see the police officer 22 inside the truck? 23 A I could see him, but not clearly, you 24 know, I could see him. 25 Q And how many police officers were inside Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 Www.goreperry.com Electronically slaned by B4dabe1-2279-4718-a080-beaaeesiebiaState of Missouri v. Darren Wilson Grand Jury Volume XIII October 16, 2014 Page 16 | 1 the truck? | 2 A As far as I could tell, one. | 3 @ Now you say there was a young man standing | 4 outside the truck? | 5 A Yeah, uh-huh. | 6 @ Was he the only other person you saw | 7 outside or around the truck? | 8 A Yes, he was the only person that I really | 9 saw, you know, by the police. | 10 @ Can you describe anything about the man | 11 that was standing outside the truck? | 12 A Uh, as far as I could tell he was a young | 13 man, tall, you know, and like I say, at the time, 14 you know, like I couldn't really see him clearly, 15 you know what I'm saying? I could see he was a 16 black young male standing there. I turned to Mr. 7 , I said, man, you see this, we've got to get 18 out of here. 19 We didn't leave immediately, you know 20 what I'm saying? I didn't want to get blocked in. 21 I had an appointment to be at, you know what I'm 22 saying? 23 Q Okay. Now, when you say that they were 24 struggling. 25 A Uh-huh. Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 Www.goreperry.com Electronically slaned by B4dabe1-2279-4718-a080-beaaeesiebiaState of Missouri v. Darren Wilson Grand Jury Volume XIII October 16, 2014 11 window? Page 17] 1 Q And you said he had ahold of the officer's | 2 shirt and the officer had ahold of his shirt? | 3 A Right, uh-huh. | 4 Q Okay. was the officer sitting in the | 5 driver's seat of the police car? | 6 A Yeah, uh-huh. | 7 Q All right. And as best you could tell, | 8 was the police officer' window down? | 9 A Yeah, uh-huh. | 10 @ So each one is reaching through the | 12 A Right, uh-huh. 13 Q Did you see anything else going on in this 14 struggle? 15 A The next thing I heard was a shot, pow, 16 and then the young man took off running. 7 Q When they were struggling, did you see 18 anybody, either one of them punching or hitting the 19 other one? 20 A It looked like, looked like they were 21 going at it because I could see the young man, you 22 know, I could see him hitting at the policeman and 23 the policeman, you know, as far as I could tell was 24 going like this. And it looked like he was going 25 for his gun, you know what I'm saying? So I was Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 Www.goreperry.com Electronically slaned by B4dabe1-2279-4718-a080-beaaeesiebiaElectronically slaned by State of Missouri v. Darren Wilson Grand Jury Volume XIII October 16, 2014 Page 18 | 1 like. | 2 @ Okay. So when you say it looked like he = | 3. was going -- | 4 A I say looked like it, I'm not for sure, | 5 I'm not for sure. | é Q Sure. And that's what we want to make | 7 sure you describe why you think that. | 8 A Right. | 9 Q What was he doing that made you think -- | 10 A Because like when he leaned over like | 11 this, I see his right hand disappear, you know, and | 12 when we heard the shot, that's when I said, hey, it | 13 is time for me to go. You know, I turned around, | 14 like T said, one of those driveways down there it is | 15 to the left, because I was headed on West Florissant | 16 is from behind. | 7 I was going up this way, I turned | 18 around in one of them driveways. I see people | 19 standing out and stuff like that. and then T backed | 20 out and I headed out. As I was leaving, I heard | 21 three more shots as I was leaving. I didn't see | 22 them, I heard three more shots as I was leaving. | 23 (indicating) | 24 @ Let's go back to the point where you are | 25 still on the street. | Gore Perry Reporting and Video FAX 314-241-6750 314-241-6750 Www.goreperry.com [343a6e1.1279-47 15-aa60-b9420633e92a