Professional Documents
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4-28-2015 Transcript Defense Witnesses 51
4-28-2015 Transcript Defense Witnesses 51
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Criminal Action
No. 13-10200-GAO
51-2
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APPEARANCES:
OFFICE OF THE UNITED STATES ATTORNEY
By: William D. Weinreb, Aloke Chakravarty and
Nadine Pellegrini, Assistant U.S. Attorneys
John Joseph Moakley Federal Courthouse
Suite 9200
Boston, Massachusetts 02210
- and UNITED STATES DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE
By: Steven D. Mellin, Assistant U.S. Attorney
Capital Case Section
1331 F Street, N.W.
Washington, D.C. 20530
On Behalf of the Government
FEDERAL PUBLIC DEFENDER OFFICE
By: Miriam Conrad, William W. Fick and Timothy G. Watkins,
Federal Public Defenders
51 Sleeper Street
Fifth Floor
Boston, Massachusetts 02210
- and CLARKE & RICE, APC
By: Judy Clarke, Esq.
1010 Second Avenue
Suite 1800
San Diego, California 92101
- and LAW OFFICE OF DAVID I. BRUCK
By: David I. Bruck, Esq.
220 Sydney Lewis Hall
Lexington, Virginia 24450
On Behalf of the Defendant
51-3
I N D E X
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3
Direct
ROGERIO FRANCA
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By Mr. Watkins
By Mr. Weinreb
Cross
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MARK SPENCER
By Mr. Fick
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JOHN CURRAN
By Mr. Watkins
By Mr. Mellin
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91
KENDRICK BALL
By Mr. Watkins
By Mr. Mellin
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105
BRANDON DOUGLAS
By Mr. Watkins
By Mr. Mellin
108
122
SONYA PETRI
By Ms. Conrad
By Mr. Weinreb
125,145
SAM LIPSON
By Ms. Conrad
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144
Redirect
Recross
51-4
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E X H I B I T S
DEFENDANT'S
EXHIBIT
3240
85
3226A
Photograph
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3226B
Photograph
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3226C
Photograph
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3320
Chart
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3321
Chart
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10
3303-7A
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3303-7B
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3309
Summary chart
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3306-14
YouTube files
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3303-9
Chart
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3318-1
Skype summary
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3306
Computer folder
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3260
Photograph
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3258
Photograph
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DESCRIPTION
FOR ID
RECEIVED
51-5
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THE CLERK:
THE CLERK:
Be seated.
THE COURT:
THE JURORS:
THE COURT:
8
9
00:27
P R O C E E D I N G S
Good morning.
Again, I want to be assured that you've
abided by my instructions.
THE JURORS:
THE COURT:
11
Mr. Watkins?
12
MR. WATKINS:
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15
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Okay.
Thank you.
The defense
Have a seat.
It's
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Yes.
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14
00:28
Have a seat.
21
your last name for the record, keep your voice up and speak
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25
THE WITNESS:
51-6
00:29
00:29
BY MR. WATKINS:
Q.
A.
Brazil.
Q.
A.
Yes.
Q.
A.
No.
Q.
A.
Portuguese.
10
Q.
11
interpreter.
12
A.
Yes.
13
Q.
14
A.
Yes.
15
Q.
You and I?
16
in English?
17
A.
Yes.
18
Q.
19
A.
Yes.
20
Q.
21
22
A.
I will.
23
Q.
24
A.
Yes, I am.
25
Q.
51-7
00:30
00:30
A.
In 2006.
Q.
A.
Q.
A.
Q.
A.
Yes.
Q.
When did you -- what year was it that you came to the
United States?
10
A.
In 2006.
11
Q.
12
A.
I was illegal.
13
Q.
14
A.
15
Q.
16
A.
Yes, I do.
17
Q.
18
A.
2006.
19
Q.
20
A.
Allston.
21
Q.
22
A.
Yes, I did.
23
Q.
24
25
A.
Yes.
51-8
00:31
00:31
Q.
a group of Russians?
A.
Q.
A.
say hi.
10
Q.
11
A.
Was good.
12
Q.
13
A.
Yes.
14
Q.
15
A.
Yes.
16
Q.
17
A.
Yup.
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Q.
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friends with?
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A.
21
Q.
22
23
A.
24
Konstantin is Morosov.
25
Q.
Yes, I do.
And during that time in Allston -- how long did you live
51-9
00:32
00:32
A.
Q.
During that time there, did you also meet a Russian by the
A.
Q.
A.
Yes, I did.
Q.
10
Tsarnaev?
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A.
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others.
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Q.
14
A.
Yes.
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Q.
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socially?
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A.
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party.
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Q.
20
A.
21
Q.
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A.
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Q.
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A.
No.
25
Q.
51-10
00:33
00:33
A.
Yes.
Q.
A.
Yes.
Q.
A.
Yes.
Q.
A.
Cambridge Street.
Q.
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move there?
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A.
12
13
Q.
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15
Cambridge?
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A.
Brighton.
17
Q.
In Brighton?
18
A.
Brighton.
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Q.
20
21
A.
Yes, I did.
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Q.
23
A.
20 Harding Street.
24
Q.
And when was that that you moved to Cambridge, as best you
25
can recall?
Was
51-11
00:34
00:35
A.
Q.
A.
Q.
A.
Q.
I'm sorry?
A.
Q.
10
A.
11
Q.
12
A.
13
Q.
14
15
A.
Yes.
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Q.
17
18
A.
Yes.
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Q.
20
A.
21
Q.
And was that all through this period that you lived there,
22
the year and a half or two years that you lived there?
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A.
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Cambridge.
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Q.
51-12
00:35
that time?
A.
Q.
visit with?
A.
Abubakr.
Q.
A.
Yeah.
Q.
10
A.
Yup.
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Q.
12
A.
Nope.
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00:36
MR. WATKINS:
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jury.
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MR. WEINREB:
There is no objection.
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THE COURT:
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Okay.
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into evidence.)
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BY MR. WATKINS:
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Q.
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there?
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A.
Yes.
25
Q.
Can you point out and identify who each of the people in
51-13
A.
Abubakr Turshaev.
THE COURT:
Mr. Watkins.
BY MR. WATKINS:
Q.
00:37
00:37
All right.
MR. WATKINS:
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Q.
11
12
A.
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Abubakr Turshaev.
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Q.
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A.
Yes.
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Q.
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at that point?
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A.
Who?
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Q.
Vishkan Vakhabov.
Sorry.
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MR. WEINREB:
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MR. WATKINS:
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THE COURT:
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I'm sorry?
But anyway, why don't you clarify that, if you'll -MR. WATKINS:
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00:38
00:39
THE COURT:
BY MR. WATKINS:
Q.
A.
Q.
A.
Yes.
Q.
A.
Yes.
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Q.
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photograph?
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A.
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Q.
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A.
In the kitchen.
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Q.
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A.
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Q.
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A.
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in my basement.
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in Boston sometimes.
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Q.
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A.
Left side Vishkan, the middle one is me, and the right
51-15
Q.
00:39
00:40
-- in Allston?
Now, is that something that you liked to do?
A.
Q.
A.
No.
Q.
A.
No.
Q.
you working?
Do you drink?
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A.
Yes.
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Q.
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A.
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at night sometimes.
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Q.
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would he be there?
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the week?
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A.
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Q.
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A.
Yes.
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Q.
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A.
Yes, also.
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Q.
25
51-16
00:41
00:41
A.
Q.
A car mechanic?
A.
Yeah.
Q.
A.
Q.
Was there a time where you drove with him to look for a
job?
A.
Yes.
10
Watertown.
And I
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12
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Q.
14
A.
No.
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Q.
16
A.
Yes.
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Q.
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A.
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20
Q.
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A.
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Q.
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A.
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Q.
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A.
Yeah, one day I went with Vishkan and Abubakr to see his
I don't know
51-17
00:42
00:43
fight.
Q.
A.
Yes, he did.
Q.
A.
No.
Q.
on occasion.
A.
Do you --
10
Q.
All right.
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12
A.
Not at all.
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Q.
14
A.
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Q.
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in your home?
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A.
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talked to him.
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Q.
And was that the -- well, what was his reaction to that?
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A.
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that kind of thing," and I said to him that friends don't come
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25
Not at all.
He
51-18
00:43
00:44
Q.
A.
me.
Q.
don't do what?
A.
Q.
10
A.
11
Q.
Now, when you say you kept quiet yourself, why did you
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A.
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Q.
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A.
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Q.
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A.
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was high, and I never could have a nice time like friend to
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friend to talk to him about that, like the drugs, the alcohol.
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Q.
22
23
A.
24
25
Q.
Yeah.
Friends
Was there a time when you came home and Tamerlan was doing
Yeah, one day I came from my job, and I met him inside my
51-19
00:45
00:45
A.
Q.
A.
Q.
And what makes you say that they were buying drugs?
A.
Excuse me?
Q.
A.
10
Q.
11
A.
Yeah.
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Q.
13
A.
14
Q.
15
A.
16
17
Q.
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A.
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Q.
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A.
Yes, he did.
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Q.
Now, did you and Tamerlan ever talk about faith and
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religion?
24
A.
25
That is no
51-20
00:46
00:46
Q.
A.
Catholic.
Q.
A.
Yes.
Q.
A.
No.
Q.
brother?
A.
Yes.
10
Q.
11
A.
I saw him twice knock on the door looking for his brother.
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Q.
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not.
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A.
Yes.
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Q.
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A.
Yes.
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Q.
18
19
A.
20
Q.
21
22
A.
23
Q.
And were these times that his brother was there or not?
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A.
25
51-21
00:47
Q.
A.
No.
Q.
Now, you told us that you lived for about a year and a
A.
Q.
city?
A.
10
11
MR. WEINREB:
MR. WATKINS:
I'm sorry.
years.
12
00:47
Yes, Stoughton.
I misheard.
13
BY MR. WATKINS:
14
Q.
15
A.
16
17
18
Q.
19
A.
Yeah.
20
Q.
21
A.
Yes, I did.
22
Q.
23
A.
Stoughton, Massachusetts.
24
Q.
And did you move with one of your roommates down there, or
25
51-22
00:48
00:48
A.
On my own.
Q.
down to Stoughton?
A.
No, never.
Q.
A.
Q.
I'm going to talk about that in a little bit, but did you
A.
Did he come
10
11
Q.
12
And did you learn through them that Tamerlan Tsarnaev had
13
MR. WEINREB:
14
MR. WATKINS:
15
THE COURT:
Go ahead.
It's hearsay.
16
BY MR. WATKINS:
17
Q.
18
for a time?
19
A.
20
Konstantin.
21
Q.
22
23
A.
No.
24
Q.
Now, was there a time when you saw Tamerlan Tsarnaev again
25
Was there a time -- and did you know what time it was that
51-23
A.
Q.
A.
Q.
Russia.
MR. WEINREB:
Objection.
THE WITNESS:
After that.
MR. WEINREB:
Objection.
9
00:49
00:49
10
THE COURT:
11
Go ahead.
No.
Overruled.
12
BY MR. WATKINS:
13
Q.
14
Russia?
15
A.
16
Q.
So what kind of work were you doing when you saw Tamerlan?
17
A.
18
Q.
I'm sorry.
19
A.
Yes.
20
Q.
21
A.
22
Q.
23
limousine driver?
24
A.
Yes.
25
Q.
A limousine driver?
51-24
A.
hotel, and it was almost the time for me to come out of the car
walking toward the walk side, and I saw him and said, "Hello,
Tamerlan."
00:50
I said, "Good.
And he just gave me his cell phone number, "Call me," and
9
00:50
But I never
10
11
Q.
12
13
A.
14
white.
15
Q.
16
A.
17
Q.
18
A.
19
Q.
And how did you know that that was his wife?
20
A.
21
Q.
Had you met that woman before when you were living on
22
Harding Street?
23
A.
Once.
24
Q.
25
Now, when you saw him, was there something about the way
51-25
00:51
00:51
A.
Yes.
Q.
A.
Q.
A.
Yes.
Q.
to you?
10
A.
Sorry.
I didn't understand.
11
Q.
12
A.
13
you know.
14
Q.
15
A.
Yup.
16
Q.
17
A.
18
Q.
19
A.
To me, yeah.
20
Q.
21
A.
Yes, we did.
22
Q.
23
A.
24
Q.
25
A.
No.
That's all.
I said no.
51-26
00:52
Q.
Did you -- did that seem odd to you in any way, that he
A.
Excuse me.
Q.
converting to Muslim?
A.
Yeah.
Q.
A.
10
Q.
11
A.
12
MR. WATKINS:
13
00:53
14
BY MR. WEINREB:
15
Q.
16
17
A.
No.
18
Q.
19
A.
20
Q.
21
off?
22
A.
23
24
MR. WEINREB:
25
THE COURT:
Thank you.
No further questions.
Thank you.
51-27
1
2
MR. FICK:
MR. WEINREB:
6
7
00:54
00:55
down.
jury:)
MR. WEINREB:
10
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12
of each one.
13
14
15
THE COURT:
16
MR. WEINREB:
17
THE COURT:
18
MR. FICK:
19
THE COURT:
20
MR. FICK:
21
THE COURT:
22
MR. WEINREB:
23
MR. FICK:
24
25
Last night?
Yes.
Yeah, I did.
I don't think I ever got that motion.
It's sealed.
We emailed it.
51-28
1
2
MR. FICK:
THE COURT:
MR. WEINREB:
THE COURT:
looked at it.
All right.
That's it?
10
MR. WEINREB:
11
MR. FICK:
12
13
MS. CONRAD:
14
(Pause.)
15
MR. FICK:
16
17
00:56
00:55
MR. WEINREB:
Yes.
Thank you.
I don't know.
I didn't notice.
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
tenuous significance.
51-29
should be excluded.
00:57
links between it and what the defendant did or may have done or
10
11
00:58
MR. FICK:
12
13
14
15
16
17
2012.
18
19
happens to the wife of a shahid, what are the rewards for the
20
wife of a mujahidin.
21
22
What significance
23
24
25
51-30
00:59
00:59
10
The recordings
of him.
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
51-31
MR. WEINREB:
THE COURT:
MR. WEINREB:
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11
12
13
14
15
THE COURT:
16
MR. FICK:
17
18
20
19
01:00
THE COURT:
9
01:00
There is no relevance --
THE CLERK:
the record, keep your voice up, and speak into the mic.
21
THE WITNESS:
22
23
BY MR. FICK:
24
Q.
25
A.
Good morning.
51-32
Q.
my equipment here.
01:01
So, Mr. Spencer, can you please remind the jury where it
A.
Q.
A.
10
11
electronic evidence.
12
Q.
13
left off in the prior phase of the case, I would like to put up
14
15
Exhibit 3308.
16
01:02
17
18
A.
I do.
19
Q.
20
21
A.
It is.
22
Q.
23
24
A.
That's correct.
25
Q.
And there was testimony from, I think, both the FBI and
51-33
01:03
01:03
A.
Correct.
Q.
A.
Yes.
Q.
A.
Correct.
Q.
And then this HP, that was a desktop computer from Norfolk
Is that right?
10
Street in Cambridge.
Is that right?
11
A.
That's my understanding.
12
Q.
13
A.
Yes.
14
Q.
Okay.
15
16
A.
Yes.
17
Q.
Okay.
18
19
20
investigation?
21
A.
Yes.
22
Q.
23
24
Sony computers?
25
A.
Yes, we did.
51-34
Q.
findings?
A.
Yes.
01:04
MR. FICK:
Q.
the screen?
A.
multimedia file that was found on the CD, in this case the
10
Honda, and whether it was found on the Sony and whether it was
11
12
MR. FICK:
Your Honor --
13
Q.
14
A.
Yes.
15
16
01:04
MR. FICK:
publish.
17
MR. CHAKRAVARTY:
No objection.
18
THE COURT:
19
No objection?
All right.
20
BY MR. FICK:
21
Q.
22
A.
23
Q.
24
information?
25
A.
File names.
51-35
01:05
Q.
A.
Correct.
Q.
A.
Q.
A.
Yes.
10
Q.
11
12
A.
I think so.
13
Q.
14
15
A.
16
17
01:05
Okay.
Yes.
MR. FICK:
18
MR. CHAKRAVARTY:
No objection.
19
THE COURT:
20
MR. FICK:
21
Okay.
And publish.
22
BY MR. FICK:
23
Q.
24
25
computers?
51-36
01:06
01:07
A.
computers, yes.
Q.
A.
Q.
A.
Yes.
Q.
10
minute, if we could.
11
MR. FICK:
12
13
Q.
14
memory reference.
15
16
determine what was the username for the Mac operating system on
17
that computer?
18
A.
I did.
19
Q.
And what was the username for the Mac operating system?
20
A.
21
Q.
22
23
A.
It was.
24
Q.
25
A.
But let
51-37
01:07
01:08
Q.
A.
Q.
A.
KTsarnaev26.
Q.
It
And did you determine what was the active Skype user on
10
11
A.
Yes.
12
Q.
13
A.
KORussell26.
14
Q.
Now, did -- you testified, I think the last time you were
15
16
computer to find out what search terms may have been entered in
17
Internet searches.
18
A.
Yes.
19
Q.
20
21
A.
Yes.
22
Q.
23
24
A.
25
Yes.
MR. FICK:
51-38
(Pause.)
Q.
3307A.
01:10
01:10
If I
A.
Yes.
10
Q.
11
12
field?
13
A.
14
Q.
Okay.
15
A.
Yes.
16
Q.
17
18
the results?
19
A.
Yes.
20
21
MR. FICK:
3303-7A.
22
MR. CHAKRAVARTY:
No objection.
23
THE COURT:
24
25
MR. FICK:
Admitted.
51-39
01:11
THE COURT:
be sure.
MR. FICK:
THE COURT:
Thank you.
MR. FICK:
I apologize.
I just want to
This is 3303-7A.
BY MR. FICK:
Q.
can you just read what that search is there, the top one?
10
A.
11
for you?"
12
Q.
13
A.
14
15
01:11
MR. FICK:
16
THE COURT:
Okay.
17
MR. FICK:
18
19
BY MR. FICK:
20
Q.
21
22
A.
Yes.
23
Q.
And just to -- can you read the search terms there that
24
25
A.
"Wife of mujahidin."
51-40
01:12
Q.
A.
Yes.
Q.
two computers?
A.
I did.
Q.
10
MR. FICK:
11
Honor.
12
Q.
13
01:13
14
15
A.
It is.
16
Q.
17
as to what is installed?
18
A.
19
computer.
20
21
It is.
MR. FICK:
Exhibit 3309.
22
MR. CHAKRAVARTY:
23
THE COURT:
24
25
BY MR. FICK:
No objection.
Okay.
51-41
01:14
01:14
Q.
software, and then the two following columns have each of the
A.
That's correct.
Q.
that?
A.
10
Q.
11
12
A.
13
to compromise it.
14
Q.
15
A.
16
17
18
19
20
Q.
21
22
A.
Correct.
23
Q.
24
25
A.
There were.
51-42
01:15
01:16
Q.
A.
Q.
A.
Q.
Tamerlan's Samsung?
When you say "volume," inside each volume, then, there can
Right.
Is that fair?
10
A.
Yes.
11
Q.
12
A.
13
14
15
Q.
16
17
18
A.
Right.
19
Q.
And what was the password for all three of those volumes?
20
A.
AllahuAkbar1.
21
Q.
22
is that?
23
A.
24
25
51-43
01:16
01:17
Internet.
Q.
A.
Correct.
Q.
A.
10
Q.
Why was that something that you chose to break out for the
11
12
of significance to you?
13
A.
14
15
16
17
Q.
18
19
computers?
20
A.
21
Q.
22
23
A.
Correct.
24
Q.
25
51-44
A.
Yes.
01:18
01:18
MR. FICK:
Q.
3306-14.
A.
Q.
10
pages long.
Is that right?
11
A.
Yes.
12
Q.
13
14
the Samsung?
15
A.
16
17
18
Q.
That's correct.
Okay.
19
MR. FICK:
20
MR. CHAKRAVARTY:
21
THE COURT:
22
23
MR. FICK:
24
BY MR. FICK:
25
Q.
All right.
51-45
01:19
01:20
name.
A.
That's correct.
Q.
Okay.
name?
A.
file name.
Is that right?
10
Q.
11
12
before.
13
chart depicts?
14
A.
15
16
Q.
17
A.
Correct.
18
Q.
19
A.
Yes.
20
Q.
Did you -- using the same forensic tools, did you create a
21
22
identified --
23
A.
Yes.
24
Q.
25
called?
Can you remind the jury what this file is, what this
51-46
A.
NetAnalysis.
Q.
A.
Q.
A.
Yes.
6
7
01:20
01:21
MR. FICK:
MR. CHAKRAVARTY:
THE COURT:
10
No objection.
All right.
11
BY MR. FICK:
12
Q.
13
14
A.
Yes.
15
Q.
And I'm just pulling out the first couple of things here,
16
17
18
A.
I have.
19
Q.
20
website is?
21
A.
22
23
Q.
24
25
A.
Yes.
51-47
Q.
from the Samsung laptop analogous to what you did with the
A.
Yes.
5
6
01:22
01:23
MR. FICK:
THE COURT:
MR. CHAKRAVARTY:
THE COURT:
10
All right.
11
BY MR. FICK:
12
Q.
13
14
15
A.
Yes.
16
Q.
17
18
A.
"Photos:
19
Q.
20
history, can you just read the search -- or not the search
21
terms, but the page titles for like the first two of those
22
23
A.
24
Q.
And can you read the very last one through down at the
25
bottom?
CNN.com."
51-48
01:24
A.
Q.
And then on the next page of the exhibit, read those two
search terms for March 4th -- or not search terms, but those
A.
YouTube."
Q.
A.
Yes.
10
Q.
11
12
A.
Yes.
13
Q.
14
communications?
15
A.
16
01:25
Yes.
MR. FICK:
17
18
Q.
19
Exhibit 3308-001.
20
21
A.
22
23
24
MR. FICK:
25
Exhibit 3318-1.
51-49
01:26
01:26
MR. CHAKRAVARTY:
No objection.
THE COURT:
All right.
MR. FICK:
Yes, please.
BY MR. FICK:
Q.
A.
Q.
Up here at the top, what are the two terms here, the
What do those represent?
10
with?
11
A.
Tamerlan Tsarnaev.
12
Q.
13
14
A.
Yes.
15
Q.
16
instant messages that went back and forth between those two
17
18
A.
19
Q.
20
21
22
MR. CHAKRAVARTY:
that Mr. Fick is doing.
23
THE COURT:
24
MR. FICK:
25
BY MR. FICK:
Is that fair?
51-50
01:27
01:28
Q.
fair?
A.
Yes.
Q.
Can you read the text that I've just highlighted there
A.
Q.
And the next page of the exhibit, can you read that piece
A.
10
Q.
11
12
conversation?
13
A.
Yes.
14
Q.
15
16
right?
17
A.
That's right.
18
Q.
19
20
this?
21
A.
22
23
Is that
Is that
Yes.
MR. FICK:
24
MR. CHAKRAVARTY:
25
THE COURT:
No objection.
All right.
51-51
01:29
MR. FICK:
BY MR. FICK:
Q.
A.
It is.
Q.
And are these images that were sent from the Awliya
A.
10
Q.
Sure.
11
A.
12
Q.
I'm sorry?
13
I'm sorry.
Okay.
MR. CHAKRAVARTY:
14
15
16
01:29
THE COURT:
Okay.
17
BY MR. FICK:
18
Q.
19
20
21
22
23
A.
24
Q.
Being sent?
25
A.
We saw
51-52
Q.
A.
Q.
A.
Yes.
01:30
01:31
MR. FICK:
Q.
10
33 -- I'm sorry.
Wrong one.
3306.
11
12
A.
I do.
13
Q.
14
this folder?
15
A.
16
17
18
19
20
Q.
21
22
23
24
Samsung?
25
A.
Yes.
51-53
based on what the user would have access to, which is similar
Q.
evidence?
A.
Similar, yes.
8
9
01:32
MR. FICK:
10
THE COURT:
11
MR. FICK:
12
MR. CHAKRAVARTY:
13
THE COURT:
14
15
BY MR. FICK:
16
Q.
Okay.
Now --
17
01:32
MR. FICK:
18
Q.
19
20
21
A.
Yes.
22
Q.
23
A.
24
25
51-54
01:33
01:34
Q.
that?
A.
Q.
Okay.
is that what the desktop of the Samsung would have looked like
10
A.
11
might be different.
12
13
14
15
Q.
16
17
18
A.
19
Q.
20
21
A.
22
Q.
23
A.
24
user to jot down some notes with some basic formatting and
25
51-55
01:35
Q.
A.
Q.
We did.
10
11
non-Cyrillic characters?
12
A.
Yes.
13
Q.
14
15
MR. CHAKRAVARTY:
There's no
16
17
of it.
18
19
01:36
THE COURT:
evidence.
20
MR. CHAKRAVARTY:
21
22
and --
23
24
25
THE COURT:
read.
MR. FICK:
51-56
01:36
BY MR. FICK:
Q.
A.
and a light road, then they would have followed you, but the
Join
It is
Repentance, 9:41-42."
10
Q.
11
vehicle related, and if you could just read the last line for
12
me, please?
13
A.
14
Q.
15
the screen what has previously been admitted as 3306-3 and -3A,
16
17
01:37
So, anyway, Mr. Spencer, can you please read the English
And then you can skip the two things that seem to be
Muhammad 7."
18
19
A.
Yes.
20
Q.
And I'll just ask you again to read the English parts of
21
22
A.
23
24
(Muhammad, 4).
25
Truly, Allah
51-57
2
3
them, Allah will punish them through your hands, will belittle
them and will grant you a victory over them, and will heal the
9
10
12
11
01:38
Fight
01:38
(Al-Ankabut, 6.)
13
14
15
16
which is good for you, and you may like something which is bad
17
for you.
18
ayat 216).
19
Q.
20
(Surah-2, Bakara,
Thank you.
And so, again, those are the full texts of what we can
21
Is
22
that fair?
23
A.
Yes.
24
Q.
25
51-58
01:39
A.
list of what files and folders a user would see with their
default options.
Q.
Inside.
A.
Q.
"Document"?
A.
That's correct.
Q.
And so is this what you would see if you had the password
Inside what?
10
11
the summary of what you would see inside that TrueCrypt volume?
12
A.
13
right.
14
15
Q.
16
folder, right --
17
A.
Right.
18
Q.
19
01:40
This is the list of files and folders that you would see,
You would not see, with default settings, the system
And then this, for example, that I circled now toward the
20
21
A.
22
Q.
23
A.
Correct.
24
Q.
25
51-59
01:40
01:41
hierarchical structure?
A.
Windows computer.
Q.
level, so to speak?
A.
volume.
Q.
Right.
And if I paged down into, for example, the next page, what
10
A.
11
Q.
12
folder with the name I just circled there on top, that 2012
13
14
A.
Right.
15
Q.
And so are these the files that are inside that subfolder?
16
A.
Right.
17
correct.
18
Q.
19
A.
20
2012-07-16 001.
21
Q.
22
23
24
A.
Correct.
25
Q.
51-60
01:42
01:43
Or the fourth
A.
folder.
Q.
A.
Yes.
Q.
A.
I'm sorry.
Okay.
10
"Hereafter Series."
11
Q.
12
A.
13
14
Q.
15
V-D-O-K-H?
16
A.
Yes.
17
Q.
18
A.
19
Q.
Okay.
20
21
22
A.
Yes.
23
Q.
24
the screen the exhibit itself with its contents and open up
25
51-61
01:43
A.
Q.
A.
Q.
10
correct, "Document"?
11
A.
Correct.
12
Q.
13
14
15
16
01:44
We
17
18
A.
Yes.
19
Q.
I'm going to open another one and assign it the sub number
20
3306B, and one more and assign it the sub number 3306C.
21
22
volume, I'll open a file and assign it a letter 3306D, and then
23
24
25
And
Again, these are all things that are contained within this
one encrypted volume on Tamerlan's Samsung laptop.
Is that
51-62
01:47
01:47
right?
A.
That's correct.
Q.
Exhibit 3306-8.
exhibit?
A.
TrueCrypt volume.
Q.
It's "Documents"
10
instead of "Document"?
11
A.
Yes.
12
Q.
13
A.
14
Q.
15
A.
Yes.
16
Q.
17
A.
18
19
Q.
20
21
22
A.
Yes.
23
Q.
24
A.
25
51-63
01:48
01:49
Q.
A.
Q.
A.
Q.
A.
10
then "Stuff."
11
Q.
12
A.
13
Q.
14
A.
15
Q.
16
17
A.
Yes.
18
Q.
19
I'm sorry.
20
A.
Yes.
21
Q.
22
A.
23
Q.
24
A.
Same.
25
Q.
I'm sorry.
Or actually,
A different subfolder?
51-64
01:49
01:50
Is that right?
A.
Q.
A.
folder.
Q.
A.
Q.
10
A.
11
Q.
12
A.
13
Q.
14
A.
15
Q.
16
A.
17
Q.
And the various names of the files here, these are names
18
19
20
A.
Yes.
21
Q.
22
A.
23
Q.
24
encrypted volume?
25
A.
Yes.
folder.
51-65
01:51
01:51
Q.
volume?
A.
Q.
A.
Q.
A.
10
Q.
11
A.
12
Q.
And apart from the TrueCrypt volumes, did you make similar
13
14
on the Samsung?
15
A.
Yes.
16
Q.
17
3306-10.
18
A.
19
20
Q.
21
the same.
22
A.
Additional items.
23
Q.
Additional items.
24
25
It is.
Page 3?
A.
More items.
I'm sorry.
51-66
01:52
01:53
Q.
And these are all image files within that folder we've
A.
Yes.
Q.
Page 4?
A.
More files.
Q.
5?
A.
Q.
Of that folder?
A.
Correct.
10
Q.
11
A.
12
13
Q.
14
A.
Additional files.
15
Q.
16
at in this folder?
17
A.
Yes.
18
Q.
19
20
A.
21
folder.
22
subfolder of "Umar."
23
Q.
24
A.
Right.
25
Q.
What is RealPlayer?
51-67
A.
Q.
01:54
01:55
So -- okay.
And the second page of the exhibit is simply more files.
Is that right?
A.
That's correct.
Q.
A.
10
11
Q.
12
A.
13
Q.
14
A.
Additional files.
15
Q.
16
17
A.
18
19
Q.
20
21
A.
Images.
22
Q.
23
A.
More images.
24
Q.
25
A.
More images.
51-68
01:55
Q.
A.
Images.
Q.
A.
Q.
A.
Q.
10
A.
Images.
11
Q.
12
A.
More images.
13
01:56
MR. FICK:
14
very short bits of two more items from inside one of the
15
TrueCrypt volumes.
16
17
18
(Pause.)
19
MR. FICK:
20
21
22
Q.
23
24
25
51-69
MR. FICK:
All right.
THE CLERK:
8
9
10
11
02:33
02:23
We'll do that.
The
12
13
MR. WEINREB:
14
15
16
17
18
19
last night, in the event that the Court rules against the
20
21
22
23
24
25
THE COURT:
Yes.
51-70
defense.
02:33
02:33
THE COURT:
Okay.
here in the courtroom from witnesses who are under oath and are
10
cross-examined.
11
that.
12
13
14
15
16
MS. CONRAD:
17
18
19
THE COURT:
20
MS. CONRAD:
21
Right.
There's certain people -- I would suggest
22
THE COURT:
23
MS. CONRAD:
24
25
is relevant, especially --
51-71
1
2
3
02:33
10
11
jury that he would take the Fifth about some other matter.
12
may have witnesses, for example, who would take the Fifth with
13
14
15
16
17
18
02:33
THE COURT:
THE COURT:
another matter, if he's invoking when asked to testify here -MS. CONRAD:
Okay.
19
20
MR. WEINREB:
21
THE COURT:
22
MR. WEINREB:
23
MS. CONRAD:
24
MR. WEINREB:
25
We
No.
Okay.
This is where we have not agreed.
These are dueling versions.
Essentially, the government's view is
51-72
02:33
something that the witness saw or heard with their own eyes and
retelling it accurately.
impressions, for example, Mr. Vakhabov says the only thing that
10
11
12
THE COURT:
13
MR. WEINREB:
14
02:33
Yellow is?
The black -- the yellow is the
15
THE COURT:
16
MR. WEINREB:
17
MS. CONRAD:
18
MR. WEINREB:
19
THE COURT:
20
MS. CONRAD:
Yes, exactly.
Right.
And this is the --
Okay.
So the blacked-out -- may I just say,
21
22
the only thing that could have caused Jahar to do this would be
23
24
that.
25
It's speculation.
I get
51-73
so?
THE COURT:
5
6
MS. CONRAD:
lunch anyway.
THE COURT:
MR. WEINREB:
That's fine.
Then there's another witness, this Mirra
10
been a sufficient showing that she won't get better by the end
11
12
MS. CONRAD:
13
MR. FICK:
It's chronic.
-- that causes her great distress, and the
14
15
beside herself.
16
17
02:34
9
02:33
THE COURT:
18
representation.
19
20
Okay.
All right.
21
MR. FICK:
22
23
courtroom.
24
25
Thank you.
51-74
screen.
Q.
it appear to be?
A.
Yes.
8
9
02:35
02:40
Does
MR. FICK:
10
11
them one after the other -- so this is 3306, Umar desktop, new
12
13
Q.
14
15
16
one browses the internet and hits a web page that has pictures
17
on it?
18
an automated way?
19
A.
20
21
22
computer.
23
Q.
24
A.
25
Q.
51-75
the Samsung, can you infer anything about whether they were put
A.
02:42
No.
MR. FICK:
one audio recording in 3306 from the encrypted files and put up
10
MR. FICK:
12
MR. CHAKRAVARTY:
14
15
THE COURT:
Thank you.
You
17
THE COURT:
19
you.
16
18
Bear with
11
13
02:50
I mean, is that
20
21
22
THE COURT:
23
MS. CLARKE:
He tried.
We could do some more pictures.
But we
24
25
51-76
02:50
the break.
earlier.
MS. CLARKE:
THE COURT:
10
Dolakov dispute.
11
here to read?
MS. CONRAD:
13
THE COURT:
16
MS. CLARKE:
19
THE COURT:
20
MS. CONRAD:
24
25
Yes.
And Dolakov, is there -- what's the status
18
23
If we took --
MR. WEINREB:
THE COURT:
22
But we just
of that?
17
21
12
15
It would be the
14
02:50
differences.
THE COURT:
I'll
the record, especially since we have some time, there are some
51-77
Friday.
4
5
MS. CLARKE:
.
03:16
10
THE COURT:
11
MR. WATKINS:
12
THE CLERK:
13
up to the box.
All right.
Mr. Watkins.
Remain standing.
14
15
THE CLERK:
16
Have a seat.
THE WITNESS:
Step
the record and spell both your first and last name.
17
03:17
18
C-u-r-r-a-n.
19
20
Q.
21
A.
Good afternoon.
22
Q.
23
A.
24
Q.
25
A.
Yes, I was.
J-o-h-n,
51-78
03:17
03:18
Q.
A.
Q.
A.
I have.
Q.
A.
I'm sorry?
Q.
A.
I'm 73.
Q.
10
A.
11
Q.
12
A.
13
Massachusetts.
14
15
Q.
16
17
A.
18
19
Q.
20
A.
21
22
and I learned how to throw a jab and the basic punches and
23
movements.
24
Q.
25
A.
I did.
Yes.
51-79
03:19
03:20
Q.
doing training?
A.
Q.
10
A.
11
Q.
And is that mainly what you've been doing for the last
12
four decades?
13
A.
Yes.
14
Q.
15
16
A.
17
Q.
18
A.
19
20
Q.
21
A.
22
Q.
23
A.
24
25
And eventually I
It
We had the
51-80
03:21
Q.
A.
Yes, I do.
Q.
A.
instructions.
it was trying to work with him, teaching him how to box the
03:21
10
11
Q.
12
13
A.
14
European mode.
15
Q.
16
17
A.
18
teaching is.
19
20
He
And so
He did.
Coming to your gym, some kids have skills coming there but
Most do not.
MR. WATKINS:
21
MR. MELLIN:
22
THE COURT:
23
Q.
24
A.
I do.
25
Q.
Let's wait.
51-81
A.
Q.
03:22
03:23
MR. WATKINS:
Q.
Can you identify who the two people in that picture are?
A.
Q.
of when he was coming to the gym and you were working with him?
A.
10
Q.
11
12
A.
13
14
15
Q.
16
umbrella organization?
17
A.
18
United States.
19
Q.
20
21
A.
22
23
years.
24
And our club was certified under the LBC, which is a six-state
25
It is.
USA Boxing is a
51-82
03:24
03:24
region.
Q.
A.
I am.
Q.
And have you really always been your career with one
exception?
A.
Q.
10
style.
11
A.
Yes.
12
Q.
And can you describe how that's different than the style
13
14
A.
15
16
17
18
19
20
Q.
21
tried to change?
22
A.
23
24
Q.
25
A.
They
While you were coaching him, was that something that you
I did.
51-83
03:25
03:26
Q.
A.
Q.
A.
would -- Tamerlan would try harder when his father was there.
10
Q.
11
A.
Periodically.
12
13
14
Q.
15
16
A.
17
front desk.
18
19
advantage of, you would put your foot down and say you have to
20
pay.
21
22
Q.
23
24
A.
25
Yes.
51-84
03:27
03:27
Q.
A.
Q.
table here?
A.
Q.
A.
I do.
10
Q.
When you'd see Jahar in the gym with his brother -- well,
11
12
A.
13
14
Q.
15
16
A.
17
2006, and then I had him on the National Golden Gloves team.
18
19
Q.
20
I want to go to an
21
MR. WATKINS:
22
MR. MELLIN:
23
MR. WATKINS:
24
MR. MELLIN:
25
THE COURT:
Overruled.
Relevance.
51-85
Q.
2
3
THE COURT:
Q.
First of all --
THE COURT:
Mr. Watkins.
A.
Gene McCarthy, the other trainer that was working with me.
Yes.
MR. WATKINS:
10
Q.
11
12
A.
13
Gene McCarthy.
14
Q.
15
correct?
16
A.
Yes, I do.
17
Q.
18
03:29
9
03:28
This --
MR. MELLIN:
19
20
21
This is
THE COURT:
Objection to
The
It's to
22
23
24
Q.
25
A.
51-86
03:29
03:30
Q.
in Lowell?
A.
Q.
Class?
A.
Correct.
Q.
Yes.
10
A.
Yes.
11
Q.
12
First, how does that fit into the USA Boxing umbrella
13
organization, if it does?
14
A.
15
16
17
rules that were set up by USA Boxing, and so they would allow a
18
19
20
Q.
21
22
A.
23
24
Q.
25
The
And that's
51-87
03:31
03:31
A.
Yes.
Q.
Golden Gloves?
A.
Yes, I did.
Q.
A.
Q.
A.
10
Q.
11
A.
12
Q.
13
mean?
14
A.
15
16
Q.
17
A.
That's correct.
18
Q.
And in that year, who was the trainer who was selected to
19
go?
20
A.
21
Q.
22
Lake City?
23
A.
That, I did.
24
Q.
25
A.
51-88
03:32
03:33
Q.
on them?
A.
Correct.
10
Q.
11
12
A.
13
fight.
14
and then he ran out of gas and completed the fight, but he just
15
16
Q.
17
18
A.
I was.
19
Q.
20
A.
I did.
21
Q.
22
else?
23
A.
24
that time.
25
Q.
This is once you got to Salt Lake City, you were checking
51-89
03:34
03:34
A.
and --
Q.
ahead of me.
A.
Nationals.
He did win.
10
Q.
11
A.
12
Q.
13
Mr. Daniels?
14
A.
15
Q.
16
A.
Correct.
17
Q.
18
19
A.
20
21
Q.
22
A.
23
Q.
24
A.
Yes.
25
Correct.
51-90
03:35
03:36
Q.
A.
Q.
Now, did you act as his trainer beyond 2009 when you were
A.
Gloves.
Q.
A.
No.
10
Lowell.
11
12
13
14
15
Champions.
16
competition.
17
Q.
18
19
A.
20
Q.
21
22
again?
23
A.
24
25
Q.
He would stop by
51-91
03:37
A.
Q.
A.
Q.
A.
the whole system has changed now that, in order to fight in the
10
11
Q.
12
A.
13
headgear.
14
03:37
MR. WATKINS:
As a matter of fact,
15
16
Q.
17
18
A.
I'm sorry?
19
Q.
20
A.
21
Q.
22
A.
23
Q.
And you --
24
A.
25
his sport.
I mean, it wasn't
51-92
03:38
Q.
Right.
A.
Q.
All right.
right?
A.
Q.
The times you saw him he was nine or ten years old,
10
correct?
11
A.
Correct, I believe.
12
Q.
13
A.
Correct.
14
MR. MELLIN:
15
MR. WATKINS:
16
THE COURT:
17
03:39
Thank you.
Nothing further, your Honor.
You
18
MR. WATKINS:
19
20
THE CLERK:
21
22
right hand.
23
24
THE CLERK:
25
Thank you.
Step
Have a seat.
51-93
03:40
03:40
THE WITNESS:
K-e-n-d-r-i-c-k, B-a-l-l.
Q.
A.
Good afternoon.
Q.
A.
Worcester.
Q.
A.
Yes.
10
Q.
11
A.
Yes.
12
Q.
13
A.
I do PCA work.
14
Q.
PCA.
15
A.
Personal care.
16
Q.
17
18
A.
Yes.
19
Q.
20
A.
21
Q.
22
A.
23
Q.
24
A.
25
Q.
How long have you owned Camp Good Get Right Boxing [sic]?
51-94
03:41
03:41
A.
Q.
A.
No.
Q.
A.
Q.
A.
Q.
A.
10
11
Q.
12
A.
Yes, I did.
13
Q.
How long did you -- how far did you get in your boxing
14
career?
15
A.
16
Q.
17
A.
18
Q.
19
you?
20
A.
21
Q.
22
23
A.
24
25
So I would be
51-95
03:42
03:43
Q.
A.
Yeah.
coach.
Q.
A.
Q.
A.
Yes.
10
Q.
11
A.
12
13
14
own.
15
Q.
16
it?
17
A.
18
19
20
21
Q.
22
A.
23
24
Q.
25
A.
Yes.
51-96
03:43
03:44
Q.
A.
Q.
abilities?
A.
Yes.
Q.
A.
Yes.
10
Q.
11
A.
12
Q.
13
14
A.
15
Q.
16
A.
17
Q.
18
A.
19
Q.
20
A.
Yes.
21
Q.
22
A.
Twice.
23
Q.
24
Daniels?
25
A.
Do
51-97
03:45
03:45
Q.
A.
In Tamerlan's favor.
Q.
A.
Q.
A.
Yes.
10
11
12
you would go against those regions, and you'd come down to the
13
finals.
14
Q.
15
16
A.
Yes.
17
Q.
18
ordinarily?
19
A.
20
Q.
21
Gloves Nationals?
22
A.
Yes.
23
Q.
24
Nationals?
25
A.
So
Yes.
51-98
Q.
3
4
03:46
03:47
MR. MELLIN:
This
THE COURT:
MR. WATKINS:
THE COURT:
MR. WATKINS:
I'm sorry?
10
11
Q.
12
A.
Yes.
13
Q.
14
A.
15
16
Q.
17
18
A.
(Indicating.)
19
Q.
20
A.
(Indicating.)
21
22
Q.
23
24
A.
Yes.
25
Q.
In
51-99
03:48
03:49
A.
of experience.
Q.
boxed?
A.
Was anything about his style that struck you, the way he
10
Q.
Is that
11
12
A.
13
Q.
I'm sorry?
14
A.
15
Q.
Why not?
16
A.
17
18
punches.
19
20
21
Q.
22
an impression on you?
23
A.
24
Q.
25
A.
He stood out.
So you
Was there anything about his personal style that also had
51-100
03:49
03:50
Auditorium, when I first seen him, he was walking down the hall
where all the guys get -- basically see the doctor and
everything.
hall.
that were pretty tight fitting, and a pair of boots that looked
foil.
10
MR. WATKINS:
11
Exhibit 3242.
12
13
MR. MELLIN:
14
THE COURT:
15
MR. MELLIN:
I give up.
No mas.
I was going to say that, but I took it
16
back.
17
Q.
18
19
A.
20
Q.
21
22
A.
Yes.
23
Q.
24
A.
I asked him could we get some work, some sparring with one
25
of my heavyweights.
51-101
03:51
03:51
Q.
heavyweights?
A.
Minor, once.
came to spar with Owen, the first time, with the heavyweight.
Q.
A.
alone.
Yes.
And I was
10
11
12
Q.
13
equipment that --
14
A.
15
16
was, like, you know, we can give you a cup and headgear, but he
17
18
of let it go.
19
Q.
20
A.
21
Q.
22
A.
23
couple rounds.
24
a knee and then he came right back and was good -- it was good
25
work.
So he came alone,
So we
So we basically kind
But --
He took
51-102
03:52
03:53
Q.
A.
some sparring.
Rodriguez who was moving up in the ranks, that he can get some
work with him also because the last time -- the first time when
Tamerlan came down, he did four rounds with my cousin Owen, and
Yes.
10
rounds in.
11
Q.
12
13
A.
14
15
16
17
believe the next time we talked, he would come down and give
18
him some work, but he was saying he'll take it easy on him
19
20
Q.
21
A.
22
23
24
real deal.
25
He fought at middleweight,
I'll take
51-103
Q.
A.
They sparred.
and then he got in with Edwin, which we tried to stop him, the
tried to tell him again, and other trainers there were trying
03:54
03:54
So we
puncher.
head.
10
right moves, and Edwin was making a lot of good moves where
11
12
down.
13
14
15
Q.
16
spitting up?
17
A.
18
He was good.
19
Q.
20
A.
21
Q.
22
A.
He did; he did.
23
Q.
24
A.
25
again, he said that he's going -- he goes Edwin was better than
After the second round, Tamerlan got out the ring, and
And Tamerlan was spitting up blood
Yeah.
51-104
03:55
03:56
what he thought.
and he'll come back and he'll spar with him again.
Q.
A.
can't remember the year, but 2000 -- it was the year of the
bombing.
crowd sitting.
10
11
Q.
12
13
A.
14
Q.
15
A.
Yes.
16
Q.
17
18
A.
February, yes.
19
Q.
20
Tsarnaev then?
21
A.
22
came over.
23
bit.
24
guys from the gym was sitting in the -- on the side over there.
25
Yeah.
So this
He
51-105
Q.
A.
No.
03:56
03:57
MR. WATKINS:
Q.
A.
Good afternoon.
Q.
10
A.
11
Q.
12
ring.
13
A.
14
Q.
Okay.
15
16
A.
17
Q.
Yes.
18
A.
19
off.
20
Q.
2013?
21
A.
Yes.
22
Q.
23
correct?
24
A.
25
Q.
Okay.
51-106
03:57
03:57
that was in 2010, correct, when you thought it was funny the
way he dressed?
A.
Yes.
Q.
A.
different style.
Q.
A.
No.
10
Q.
11
A.
No.
12
Q.
In that video clip that was shown, did you see the
13
14
A.
Tamerlan?
15
Q.
16
A.
No.
Right.
17
MR. MELLIN:
18
MR. WATKINS:
19
THE COURT:
20
MR. WATKINS:
21
THE COURT:
22
MR. WATKINS:
23
MR. MELLIN:
24
25
Thank you.
Nothing further.
You're finished?
Yes.
Brandon Douglas.
Your Honor, objection to this testimony.
Cumulative.
THE COURT:
51-107
it is.
3
4
MR. MELLIN:
testimony, so --
5
6
THE COURT:
Remind me.
03:58
03:59
MR. WATKINS:
chronological order.
2013.
10
11
12
Tsarnaev four days before the bombing or three days before the
13
bombing.
I think it --
14
THE COURT:
15
MR. WATKINS:
16
THE COURT:
17
MR. WATKINS:
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
51-108
3
4
MR. MELLIN:
evidence.
THE COURT:
up to the box.
Remain standing.
10
11
THE CLERK:
12
Step
Have a seat.
Spell your
13
04:01
04:00
THE WITNESS:
14
D-o-u-g-l-a-s.
15
16
Q.
17
A.
Watertown.
18
Q.
19
A.
Dallas, Texas.
20
Q.
21
A.
Yes.
22
Q.
23
A.
Yes.
24
Q.
25
A.
Yes.
51-109
04:01
04:02
Q.
A.
Q.
A.
Yes.
Q.
A.
Political science.
Q.
point?
A.
Yes, sir.
10
Q.
11
A.
2005.
12
Q.
13
A.
Yes, sir.
14
Q.
15
16
A.
Yeah.
17
Q.
18
kinds of sports?
19
A.
20
21
Q.
22
A.
Yes, sir.
23
Q.
24
to you.
25
A.
Okay.
51-110
04:02
04:03
Q.
A.
Q.
martial arts?
A.
Q.
10
A.
11
12
13
Q.
14
15
A.
16
17
Q.
18
A.
Yes, I do.
19
Q.
What is that?
20
A.
21
Q.
When you first came to Boston, did you also have a day
22
job?
23
A.
Yes, I did.
24
Q.
25
A.
The Wai Kru gym in Brighton, how long have you been going
51-111
04:04
04:04
Q.
the gyms?
A.
Yes, sir.
Q.
A.
Q.
A.
At Wai Kru.
Q.
10
athletic skills?
11
A.
12
Q.
As an athlete.
13
A.
14
15
16
dangerous competitor.
17
Q.
18
A.
No, sir.
19
Q.
20
MR. MELLIN:
21
THE COURT:
Objection.
Overruled.
22
Q.
23
A.
I may answer?
24
25
additionally.
A variety of reasons.
Proximity to
51-112
04:05
04:06
Q.
A.
Yes, sir.
Q.
When you would work out with him, what would that entail?
A.
sparring as well.
Q.
10
A.
11
degree.
12
beginners.
13
of his size and skill level with beginners and people of that
14
15
16
relationship.
17
Q.
18
A.
Yes, sir.
19
Q.
Were you aware that he won the Golden Gloves, the local
20
Golden Gloves?
21
A.
Yes, I was.
22
Q.
23
A.
Yes, sir.
24
Q.
25
A.
Yes, I was.
51-113
04:06
04:07
Q.
A.
I do.
Q.
Golden Gloves?
A.
Briefly, yes.
Q.
A.
That issues with his citizenship had denied him entry into
that tournament.
Q.
10
A.
11
Q.
12
A.
13
14
15
Q.
He took it personally?
16
A.
Yes, sir.
17
Q.
18
A.
19
Q.
20
MR. MELLIN:
21
THE COURT:
Objection.
Sustained.
22
Q.
23
A.
24
Q.
25
A.
51-114
political subjects:
Q.
A.
Yes, sir.
Q.
A.
Q.
9
04:08
04:08
MR. MELLIN:
10
THE COURT:
Objection, relevance.
Sustained.
11
Q.
12
Russia?
13
A.
Yes, of course.
14
Q.
15
A.
Yes, sir.
16
Q.
17
18
A.
19
20
Q.
21
22
temperament?
23
A.
24
25
Q.
We were having a
And his demeanor when he was discussing this, was it -What was his
51-115
04:09
04:09
A.
Yes.
Q.
A.
Q.
A.
Q.
A.
10
and then part time for several more years after that.
11
Q.
12
13
A.
14
Q.
15
A.
16
frequently.
17
Q.
And then once you started working part time less so?
18
A.
19
Q.
20
all?
21
A.
Yes, sir.
22
Q.
23
MR. MELLIN:
24
THE COURT:
25
Q.
Objection.
Sustained.
51-116
04:10
04:10
Dagestan?
MR. MELLIN:
THE COURT:
Objection.
Sustained.
Q.
Tsarnaev's demeanor?
A.
Yes, sir.
Q.
A.
The
10
Q.
11
12
wear?
13
A.
14
15
Q.
16
A.
Yes, sir.
17
Q.
And then later when you saw him, how did those two things
18
change?
19
A.
20
21
Q.
22
A.
23
Q.
24
25
A.
Always?
51-117
04:11
04:12
Q.
Yes.
A.
No.
Q.
A.
Yes.
Q.
A.
manifested.
Q.
10
A.
11
shoes on the mats and in the rest of the gym downstairs, which
12
13
14
disruptive to classes.
15
16
17
18
19
Q.
20
A.
Yes.
21
happened, yes.
22
Q.
Did he stop?
23
A.
24
Q.
25
He would use
51-118
04:13
04:13
A.
Q.
A.
Q.
A.
Q.
I'm sorry.
A.
Q.
10
A.
11
Q.
Who else did you see in the gym with Tamerlan Tsarnaev?
12
A.
13
Q.
I'm sorry?
14
A.
15
16
Q.
17
gym?
Right.
I was there
18
MR. MELLIN:
19
THE COURT:
Yes.
Objection.
Overruled.
20
A.
21
day.
22
Q.
23
April 12 of 2013?
24
A.
25
Q.
51-119
A.
Q.
surveillance cameras?
A.
04:15
I'm aware.
MR. WATKINS:
THE COURT:
MR. MELLIN:
9
04:14
I do.
your Honor.
10
THE COURT:
11
MR. WATKINS:
12
THE COURT:
Exhibit 3273.
All right.
13
Q.
14
in this video.
15
A.
Yes.
16
Q.
17
A.
That's Tamerlan.
18
Q.
19
A.
(Indicating.)
20
Q.
21
identify him?
22
A.
No, sir.
23
Q.
24
from?
25
A.
Who's that?
51-120
04:17
04:18
Q.
Q.
A.
Yes.
Q.
What is that?
A.
Q.
Did you later learn that your gloves had been used at Wai
Kru gym?
10
A.
Yes, sir.
11
Q.
12
A.
I learned that Tamerlan had gone in the back and took two
13
pairs of gloves, one for himself and one for his brother.
14
Q.
15
A.
16
Q.
Was that something he'd ask for permission from you for?
17
A.
18
Q.
19
A.
20
Q.
You mention that you were not present at that time but
21
22
A.
23
Q.
24
cross paths?
25
A.
Did you
51-121
Q.
MR. MELLIN:
THE COURT:
MR. WATKINS:
last thing.
7
8
04:20
Objection.
Yeah, sustained.
Your Honor, may we -- this will be the
Perhaps we could --
THE COURT:
I would
9
04:19
MR. WATKINS:
10
THE COURT:
I'm sorry?
11
12
Q.
13
14
MR. MELLIN:
Objection.
15
THE COURT:
16
MR. WATKINS:
17
18
Q.
19
20
MR. MELLIN:
21
THE COURT:
Objection.
You may answer that.
22
A.
Yes, sir.
23
Q.
24
A.
25
51-122
1
2
04:20
04:21
MR. WATKINS:
Exhibit 3230.
MR. MELLIN:
Objection.
THE COURT:
MR. WATKINS:
MR. MELLIN:
Q.
A.
Good afternoon.
10
Q.
11
12
A.
Yes.
13
Q.
Okay.
14
correct?
15
A.
Yes.
16
Q.
17
18
A.
No, sir.
19
Q.
20
A.
No, sir.
And that's the last time you actually saw him, too,
21
MR. MELLIN:
22
MR. WATKINS:
23
THE COURT:
24
25
down.
Thank you.
Had you
Thank you.
Court
51-123
THE CLERK:
public:)
06:03
MR. WEINREB:
evidence, put them up on the screen and send them back with the
10
jury.
11
12
13
14
Moreover --
15
06:03
We object to that.
THE COURT:
16
17
18
MS. CONRAD:
19
20
21
in --
22
23
24
25
THE COURT:
You can
That's going to
51-124
06:04
exhibit.
MR. WEINREB:
MS. CONRAD:
MR. WEINREB:
I do not believe -The Court has ruled --- the document with all sorts of
were redacted, what was being withheld from them should be put
10
in front of them.
11
12
13
14
MS. CONRAD:
15
THE COURT:
16
notebooks.
17
it.
18
19
06:04
At least it should be up
MS. CONRAD:
Adding this
They have
They'll just read
20
THE COURT:
That's fine.
21
22
THE CLERK:
23
24
THE CLERK:
25
MS. CONRAD:
Be seated.
The defense calls Sonya Petri who's --
51-125
1
2
THE COURT:
MS. CONRAD:
THE CLERK:
name for the record, speak into the mic and keep your voice up.
THE WITNESS:
THE COURT:
Will you
13
THE WITNESS:
14
MS. CONRAD:
Sorry.
Thanks.
Let me know.
15
16
hooked up.
17
Thank you.
We're
18
06:06
P-E-T-R-I.
11
12
All right.
THE CLERK:
9
10
06:06
Okay.
I don't know
3
4
DIRECT EXAMINATION
19
BY MS. CONRAD:
20
Q.
21
A.
Good afternoon.
22
Q.
23
A.
24
Q.
25
A.
I am a paralegal.
51-126
Q.
A.
Q.
A.
I cannot.
Q.
Okay.
7
8
THE COURT:
06:07
9
06:07
MS. CONRAD:
10
THE COURT:
11
MS. CONRAD:
12
THE COURT:
13
MS. CONRAD:
14
There we
15
go.
16
BY MS. CONRAD:
17
Q.
18
A.
Yes.
19
Q.
20
A.
It is an FBI 302.
21
Q.
And when you say "FBI," you mean the Federal Bureau of
22
Investigation?
23
A.
Correct.
24
Q.
25
A.
51-127
Q.
A.
Yes.
Q.
How many?
A.
Thousands.
Q.
8
9
06:08
06:08
MR. WEINREB:
appropriate.
10
This is not
THE COURT:
11
a 302 is.
12
13
MS. CONRAD:
14
THE COURT:
15
MS. CONRAD:
16
THE COURT:
Great.
17
18
interview.
19
20
21
22
23
24
reports.
25
51-128
06:09
BY MS. CONRAD:
Q.
whom?
A.
Magomed Dolakov.
Q.
A.
10
Massachusetts.
11
Q.
12
06:10
I think it
13
14
BY MS. CONRAD:
15
Q.
Absolutely.
16
A.
Sure.
17
Q.
18
A.
D-O-L-A-K-O-V.
19
Q.
20
A.
Correct.
21
Q.
And does the report tell you who conducted that interview?
22
A.
Yes, it does.
23
Q.
24
A.
25
Q.
M-A-G-O-M-E-D.
51-129
1
2
MS. CONRAD:
control --
THE COURT:
MS. CONRAD:
THE COURT:
MS. CONRAD:
I do that.
9
06:10
10
THE COURT:
way.
11
06:11
MS. CONRAD:
Right.
12
BY MS. CONRAD:
13
Q.
14
A.
15
Q.
16
A.
17
Q.
18
A.
Correct.
19
Q.
20
A.
I presume.
21
Q.
22
23
24
A.
25
Sure.
(As read:)
Dolakov
51-130
06:12
government.
kill people.
Q.
A.
(As read:)
2012.
10
11
12
13
MIT.
14
15
Q.
16
A.
(As read:)
17
because his sister was getting married and his mother was
18
having surgery.
19
06:12
20
21
front of his home talking with his friend Gaisanov in his car.
22
23
the police pulled them out of the car and searched them and
24
25
51-131
06:13
06:14
Q.
And going on to the second page, could you read the first
paragraph?
A.
first time, he had another contact with the police and FSB.
the mosque as not radical and advised that there are much more
mosque when he was stopped by the police and taken back to the
(As read:)
10
police station.
11
was taken.
12
13
14
Q.
15
A.
(As read:)
16
17
18
19
to a Somali male, and told the Somali male where he was from in
20
Russia.
21
22
23
24
25
Q.
Please continue.
51-132
06:15
06:15
A.
(As read:)
that Tamerlan acted and spoke the same way they did.
Dolakov
10
that Dolakov was saying and was not open to any other beliefs.
11
12
studying, but Tamerlan did not feel that any of these things
13
were important.
14
not hostile but they clearly did not have the same opinions on
15
16
Q.
17
paragraph on page 2.
18
A.
19
20
white robe.
21
of the robe.
22
23
was becoming physically aggressive toward the male and the male
24
eventually left.
25
All right.
(As read:)
51-133
Islam.
Q.
Okay.
A.
(As read:)
Dolakov up.
8
9
06:16
06:17
10
11
12
Q.
13
14
A.
15
16
17
18
Q.
19
20
A.
21
22
23
mujahidin."
24
25
argued with Tamerlan, advising him that the war was not easy
(As read:)
(As read:)
51-134
06:17
06:18
I'm sorry.
Dolakov told
Q.
Yup.
A.
Thank you.
10
Q.
11
A.
(As read:)
12
13
was fighting.
14
Q.
15
A.
(As read:)
16
17
18
19
Tamerlan said that the bomber was right, another "sign" that
20
21
Dolakov tried to
22
23
24
25
Q.
Please continue.
This upset
51-135
06:19
06:20
A.
(As read:)
and the war, and tried to explain to Tamerlan that there was a
Q.
A.
January of 2013.
Q.
A.
(As read:)
(As read:)
10
11
12
praying.
13
mosque, but they did not hang out outside of the mosque.
14
Q.
15
A.
(As read:)
16
17
told him that his wife works and he, Tamerlan, takes care of
18
their child.
19
Q.
20
paragraph, please.
21
A.
22
23
24
25
Okay.
(As read:)
51-136
a runny nose.
06:21
06:21
"training."
really did not want to go right then, but that Tamerlan was
10
persistent.
11
12
13
Q.
14
15
A.
16
Q.
Okay.
17
18
A.
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
(As read:)
Dolakov
51-137
06:22
06:23
of the house.
Q.
Okay.
A.
(As read:)
seat.
moved the box from the backseat and put it in the rear of the
10
11
Q.
12
A.
(As read:)
13
14
Brighton Avenue near the gym and the three entered the gym.
15
Dolakov believes they got to the gym around 3 p.m. and stayed
16
17
18
bag.
19
20
21
was always very quiet and often just listened rather than
22
saying much.
23
Q.
24
25
A.
Okay.
(As read:)
51-138
06:24
MS. CONRAD:
THE COURT:
MS. CONRAD:
06:23
MR. WEINREB:
I'm sorry.
Which one?
On page 5.
I'm not offering that.
If the government
MR. WEINREB:
THE COURT:
That's fine.
Okay.
10
BY MS. CONRAD:
11
Q.
Go ahead.
12
A.
13
Q.
14
Tamerlan."
15
A.
16
17
halal restaurant.
18
Q.
19
A.
(As read:)
20
Dolakov's apartment.
21
Q.
22
A.
(As read:)
23
24
25
marathon.
Thank you.
(As read:)
"After
51-139
06:25
06:25
Tamerlan or Dzhokhar.
Q.
Please continue.
A.
(As read:)
Q.
document, I'd ask you to read the first sentence that you see.
A.
(As read:)
If I may just
10
11
Q.
Please continue.
12
A.
(As read:)
13
14
15
16
17
18
what language you read the Qur'an in, you can still understand
19
20
21
22
23
Internet.
24
the Kavkazcenter.
25
51-140
MS. CONRAD:
THE COURT:
06:26
06:26
It's
the reading --
8
9
that.
6
7
Okay.
MS. CONRAD:
identification, then?
10
THE COURT:
11
MS. CONRAD:
Yes.
Okay.
Thank you.
12
BY MS. CONRAD:
13
Q.
14
15
A.
16
Q.
17
A.
18
Q.
And does this report tell you when that interview took
19
place?
20
A.
It does.
21
Q.
22
A.
23
Q.
And where?
24
A.
In Cambridge, Massachusetts.
25
Q.
51-141
06:27
06:28
A.
Q.
A.
Q.
A.
Dolakov thought that he may have seen him once before during a
Okay.
(As read:)
10
11
the gym.
12
13
and Dzhokhar spoke was at the gym when Tamerlan was showering.
14
Q.
15
16
A.
Yes, it is.
17
Q.
18
A.
19
Q.
20
A.
21
Q.
At where?
22
A.
Brighton, Massachusetts.
23
Q.
24
specifically?
25
A.
Okay.
Yes, it does.
51-142
06:28
06:29
Road.
Q.
A.
Q.
A.
Yes.
Q.
A.
Q.
I don't know.
10
page?
11
A.
12
13
14
Q.
15
16
A.
17
Q.
Okay.
18
19
A.
20
(As read:)
I'm sorry.
Sorry.
Start
(As read:)
21
22
Q.
23
say "blank"?
24
A.
Sure.
25
Q.
Okay?
I'm sorry.
51-143
06:29
06:30
A.
Q.
Sure.
A.
(As read:)
blank, ate lunch at the mosque, and then went to, blank's,
10
11
Q.
Please continue.
12
A.
(As read:)
13
14
15
16
individuals.
17
18
19
20
21
Cambridge, Massachusetts.
22
23
24
dinner.
25
two, and when it was time to eat, Tsarnaev served the food
51-144
not at the apartment; she was doing social work for some old
people.
Q.
5
6
THE COURT:
MS. CONRAD:
THE COURT:
same witness.
10
MS. CONRAD:
11
06:31
9
06:31
Okay.
Okay.
CROSS-EXAMINATION
12
BY MR. WEINREB:
13
Q.
14
A.
Good afternoon.
15
Q.
16
talking -- when you read the first interview with Mr. Dolakov,
17
18
19
A.
Uh-huh.
20
Q.
21
black pen?
22
A.
23
24
25
You were
Yes.
Certainly.
(As read:)
Dolakov believed
51-145
engineering.
MR. WEINREB:
06:32
06:32
Thank you.
BY MS. CONRAD:
Q.
A.
10
Q.
11
this?
12
A.
13
Q.
14
A.
15
Q.
Where?
16
A.
In Allston, Massachusetts.
17
Q.
18
A.
Jeffrey F. Hunter.
19
Q.
20
A.
At Vakhabov's residence.
21
Q.
22
23
A.
24
Chechnya.
25
Okay.
Certainly.
(As read:)
51-146
Chechen war.
years.
year.
Q.
In -- hold on.
A.
-- 2004.
9
06:33
06:34
(As read:)
10
11
Q.
Please continue.
12
A.
(As read:)
13
14
15
Q.
16
sentence.
17
A.
18
19
20
Tsarnaev are brothers and were residing in the same house when
21
22
Tsarnaev's parents.
23
24
25
Dagestani accent.
And please read the next paragraph, all but the last
Okay.
(As read:)
51-147
Q.
A.
(As read:)
06:35
06:35
However, as of approximately
10
behavior.
11
12
told him that just because you say you are a Muslim, it does
13
14
Q.
15
A.
(As read:)
16
17
18
19
travel to Dagestan.
20
21
traveled to Dagestan.
22
23
24
25
Tamerlan Tsarnaev
51-148
06:36
06:37
Q.
Please continue.
A.
(As read:)
Q.
A.
Q.
Yes.
A.
(As read:)
I'm going to stop you there and ask you to read the second
10
11
12
13
Q.
14
A.
(As read:)
15
16
17
18
inside.
19
20
21
22
practices.
23
24
25
Upon arriving at
51-149
1
2
06:38
MS. CONRAD:
MR. WEINREB:
THE COURT:
I have nothing.
Okay.
them.
10
11
12
13
06:38
14
process.
15
16
agents.
17
18
agents' notes and then put together in a report either that day
19
20
21
22
them.
23
24
25
51-150
06:39
06:40
evidence.
So
10
you may take all of those things into account in deciding the
11
12
13
14
15
16
to do that.
17
18
here.
19
don't think was spelled for you, so the second witness was
20
21
V-A-K-H-A-B-O-V.
22
23
24
25
51-151
MS. CONRAD:
THE COURT:
MS. CONRAD:
THE COURT:
MS. CONRAD:
06:42
respected.
Good.
If
that's okay.
THE COURT:
MS. CONRAD:
10
It is certainly okay.
Sam Lipson.
SAM LIPSON, duly sworn
11
THE CLERK:
Have a seat.
12
first and last name for the record, keep your voice up and
13
14
THE WITNESS:
15
06:42
16
BY MS. CONRAD:
17
Q.
18
grew up?
19
A.
20
Q.
Cambridge, Massachusetts?
21
living?
22
A.
23
health department.
24
Q.
25
A.
51-152
06:43
06:43
Q.
A.
I do.
Q.
A.
She does.
Q.
A.
Joanna Herlihy.
Q.
10
A.
J-O-A-N-N-A, H-E-R-L-I-H-Y.
11
Q.
12
A.
13
Q.
14
A.
15
Q.
16
A.
Yes.
17
Q.
18
A.
19
Q.
20
family?
21
A.
22
Q.
23
A.
24
family.
25
Q.
And who was the first person in that family that you met?
51-153
06:44
06:44
A.
Q.
A.
A-N-Z-O-R.
Q.
A.
Q.
A.
No, I wasn't.
Q.
A.
10
11
12
13
Q.
14
A.
Yes.
15
Q.
16
A.
17
18
Q.
19
A.
She does.
20
Q.
21
A.
22
Q.
Yes.
23
him by himself?
24
A.
25
Q.
And did you have some more contact with him as time went
51-154
06:45
on?
A.
I did.
Q.
A.
Q.
A.
10
11
12
Q.
13
14
15
16
17
06:45
MS. PELLEGRINI:
objection, your Honor.
18
THE COURT:
19
MS. PELLEGRINI:
20
I'm sorry?
To the one, 3260, I have no
objection.
21
22
MS. CONRAD:
Okay.
be published.
23
24
BY MS. CONRAD:
25
Q.
51-155
A.
Yes, I do.
Q.
A.
Q.
photograph depicts?
A.
And showing you Exhibit 3258, can you tell us what that
8
9
06:46
06:46
MS. CONRAD:
10
MS. PELLEGRINI:
11
THE COURT:
12
All right.
13
BY MS. CONRAD:
14
Q.
15
16
17
A.
Oh, yeah.
18
Q.
19
A.
This is an alley.
20
Q.
Right.
21
A.
22
23
Q.
24
elements?
25
A.
So when you say "in the alleyway," can you put your finger
The street is --
51-156
06:47
06:48
Q.
A.
very inviting.
tea at his house, that was sort of an offer that was put out
there I think almost every time -- I met him the first few
times.
You know,
10
Q.
Did that -- what kinds of things did you talk to him about
11
12
A.
13
14
a place to rent, and never did in the end, but we talked about
15
16
Q.
17
18
A.
19
Chelsea that was going to be available that would have been big
20
enough for the family but also had a garage that was attached
21
and would have allowed him to work in the garage and have a
22
23
Q.
24
25
A.
Yeah.
What's
51-157
06:49
06:49
Q.
A.
Yes.
Q.
A.
Yes.
Q.
A.
rental because it had leaded paint, and with younger kids, they
10
11
Q.
12
13
14
A.
Yeah.
15
Q.
16
A.
Well, there's Jahar and Ailina and Bella and Tamerlan and
17
18
Q.
19
A.
Yeah.
20
Q.
21
A.
Yes.
22
Q.
23
Exhibit 1185-01 --
24
25
MS. CONRAD:
So we talked a
What?
Okay.
I'll
51-158
06:50
06:51
everybody, please.
Q.
A.
Yes.
Q.
What is it?
A.
Q.
At 410 Norfolk?
A.
Yes.
Q.
10
A.
11
Q.
Can you just touch the screen and show us where their
12
13
A.
(Witness complies.)
14
Q.
15
of six?
16
A.
17
small.
18
19
Q.
20
21
A.
22
Q.
23
A.
Yes.
24
Q.
25
A.
Yeah.
So, yeah,
51-159
06:52
06:52
Q.
A.
cowboy.
He was a person of
10
11
Q.
12
A.
13
little Russian.
14
so great.
15
16
Q.
17
18
19
A.
Yes.
20
Q.
21
22
with physically.
23
A.
24
25
would say that that sort of muscular build that I first noticed
It was
Did you observe any changes in Anzor over the years from
Yeah.
51-160
Q.
A.
I was.
06:53
06:54
MS. PELLEGRINI:
BY MS. CONRAD:
Q.
MS. PELLEGRINI:
THE COURT:
10
MS. CONRAD:
No, go ahead.
11
BY MS. CONRAD:
12
Q.
13
14
A.
15
16
might be wrong with the car, there were times that he appeared
17
to be in pain.
18
Q.
19
20
A.
21
22
23
motions as possible.
24
had --
25
And how would you -- what observations did you make that
MS. PELLEGRINI:
Objection.
51-161
06:54
THE COURT:
BY MS. CONRAD:
Q.
complained of pain?
A.
He did.
Q.
MS. PELLEGRINI:
THE COURT:
THE WITNESS:
Objection.
10
that he was in pain, and not going into great detail about
11
12
13
BY MS. CONRAD:
14
Q.
15
a moment.
16
A.
17
Q.
18
A.
19
06:55
Sustained.
20
alley.
21
22
23
garage.
24
determined to do work.
25
Q.
And he
He
51-162
06:56
him?
A.
general.
Yeah.
10
Q.
11
A.
12
Q.
13
14
A.
15
16
17
18
06:57
Yeah.
What changes
19
20
21
22
But there was a -- she was covering herself on her head and --
23
Q.
24
covering or hijab?
25
A.
Yeah.
51-163
06:57
06:58
Q.
A.
Q.
A.
Q.
10
A.
Yeah.
11
had, you know, a shawl or dress, that was, you know, very
12
13
Q.
And later?
14
A.
15
Q.
16
17
A.
18
19
20
21
22
23
Q.
24
doing.
25
A.
Yeah.
Did
51-164
06:59
06:59
home-health aid.
cosmetology.
about it through my own work, and I was interested that she was
trying to do that.
Q.
A.
Sure.
would be like --
10
Q.
11
A.
Exactly.
12
thing.
13
Q.
14
professionally?
15
A.
16
17
18
Q.
19
that change over time or did the way she talked change over
20
time?
21
A.
22
often.
23
24
would speak of, you know, her fears and concerns mostly and how
25
Yeah.
And did
51-165
07:00
07:01
a high pitch that really made it seem like she was very upset,
or nearly upset.
Q.
MS. PELLEGRINI:
THE COURT:
THE WITNESS:
BY MS. CONRAD:
Q.
Objection.
10
11
A.
12
Q.
And did you notice -- but did you notice a change in how
13
14
A.
15
16
Q.
17
courtroom?
18
A.
I do.
19
Q.
20
A.
Yes.
21
Q.
22
A.
23
Q.
24
A.
He was eight.
25
Q.
No, I did not really run into them in the way that I would
51-166
07:02
07:02
A.
Very sweet.
Q.
A.
Skinny kid.
Q.
A.
conversations.
Q.
10
A.
11
12
13
Q.
14
apartment?
15
A.
16
17
18
Q.
19
A.
Oh, cheerful.
20
21
22
Q.
23
24
A.
25
older, of course.
I think he
You know, he
You know,
Was he -- would you sort of see him come and go from the
He was
51-167
Q.
A.
07:03
07:04
It looked
Q.
A.
10
Q.
And by the way, do you know more or less who the oldest
11
12
the oldest?
13
A.
Tamerlan.
14
Q.
15
A.
Jahar.
16
Q.
17
18
A.
19
20
hall.
21
charismatic.
22
23
Q.
24
years?
25
A.
Like he
Now, how did that change, or did that change, over the
51-168
07:05
07:06
this is based on having maybe run across him once a year over
Q.
A.
Q.
Now, let me just stop there for a second and let me just
10
the years.
11
four children.
12
A.
13
14
15
16
17
Tamerlan moved out at one point, but I didn't keep track of any
18
of that.
19
Q.
20
A.
21
22
Q.
23
remember?
24
A.
25
Q.
Yeah.
And how old was Ailina when she got married, do you
51-169
07:06
07:07
A.
Olmonty.
Q.
A.
Q.
A.
And so did Ailina move out at that point, or she had moved
10
Q.
Did you become aware at some point that Tamerlan had gone
11
12
MS. PELLEGRINI:
13
THE COURT:
14
THE WITNESS:
Objection.
15
BY MS. CONRAD:
16
Q.
17
A.
Yeah.
18
Q.
19
20
A.
21
Q.
22
A.
23
24
Q.
25
A.
Yeah.
Yeah.
51-170
07:08
07:08
Q.
A.
No.
I may have run across him, it might have been after he started.
building, I guess.
Q.
Dagestan and Jahar off in college, do you know who was living
10
A.
11
12
Q.
13
A.
14
Q.
Do you know if that was the name she was born with?
15
A.
16
Q.
17
A.
Katherine.
18
Q.
19
A.
Yes.
20
Q.
21
22
A.
23
24
25
Almost nonexistent.
So that would be
51-171
07:09
07:10
Q.
A.
No.
Q.
A.
it.
Q.
A.
10
11
if it was someone you don't know, you know, even though we had
12
13
Q.
14
A.
Yeah.
15
16
17
Q.
18
Now, are you aware there came a time when your mother
19
MS. PELLEGRINI:
20
THE COURT:
21
22
MS. CONRAD:
23
Objection.
Yeah, sustained.
Do you have --
questions.
24
THE COURT:
25
MS. PELLEGRINI:
I am.
I have cross.
51-172
THE COURT:
point.
more orderly.
THE CLERK:
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
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24
25
It will be
The
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4/28/15