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Ydanis Rodriguez Transcript
Ydanis Rodriguez Transcript
------------------------x
TRANSCRIPT OF THE MINUTES
of the
COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS
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August 4, 2010 Start: 9:00 am Recess: xx:xx pm
HELD AT:
Council Chambers City Hall
B E FOR E:
INEZ E. DICKENS Chairperson
COUNCIL MEMBERS:
Council Member Vincent M. Ignizio
Council Member Robert Jackson
Council Member Karen Koslowitz
Council Member James S. Oddo
Council Member Annabel Palma
Council Member Joel Rivera 1
A P PEA RAN C E S [CONTINUED]
Inez E. Dickens opening Statement Chairperson
Committee on Standards and Ethics
Nadir Joshua Counsel
Committee on Standards and Ethics
Rafael Perez Sergeant at Arms
New York City Council
Carl D'Alba Security Director
New York City Council
Counsel to Council Member Ydanis Rodriguez
Complainant
Financial Division New York City Council
Eisha Wright
Senior Supervising Analyst Financial Division
New York City Council
Danielle Porcaro Community Liaison Speaker Quinn's Office New York City Council
Pakhi Sengupta
Senior Legislative Financial Analyst Financial Division
New York City Council
2
3
Jeffrey Eodus
First Deputy Director Finance Division
Johanna Garcia
Director for Legislative and Budget Affairs Office of Council Member Jackson
Maria del Carmen Arroyo Council Member
New York City Council
Angel Audiffred Chief of Staff
Office of Council Member Rodriguez
Jessica S. Lappin Council Member
New York City Council
Ydanis Eodriguez Council Member
New York City Council
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS
[Background noise]
SERGEANT AT ARMS: Quiet please.
[Background noise)
[Gavel banging]
CHAIRPERSON DICKENS:
This brings--
SERGEANT AT ARMS:
[Interposing]
8 Quiet please.
9
CHAIRPERSON DICKENS:
This brings
10 to order the Standards and Ethics Committee
11
12
hearing of Wednesday August 4th, 2010.
Good
morning.
I am Council Member Inez E. Dickens,
13 Chair to the Committee on Standards and Ethics.
14 I am joined by my colleagues
15 Council Member Robert Jackson of Manhattan,
16 Council Member Karen Koslowitz of Queens, Council
17 Member Annabel Palma of the Bronx, our Majority
18 Leader Council Member Joel Rivera, Council Member
19 Vincent Ignizio of Staten Island and our Minority
20
Leader James Oddo.
We are also joined by our
21 Committee Chair attorney, Nadir Joshua and
22 Sergeant of Arms Rafael Perez and Security
23 Director Carl D'Alba.
24
The Committee on Standards and
Ethics is meeting today pursuant to Section 10.80
4
1
COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS
2 of the Council Rules to investigate an allegation
3 that Council Member Ydanis Rodriguez acted
4 inappropriately during an interaction with a
5 Council staff member.
6
COUNCIL MEMBER PALMA:
Pursuant to,
7 pursuant to Article 7 of the Public Officers law I
8 move that we go into executive session to consider
9 this matter as it relates to the potential
10 discipline of a Council Member.
11
CHAIRPERSON DICKENS:
Council
12 Member Palma has made a motion that we go into
13 14
executive session.
Is there a second?
COUNCIL MEMBER RIVERA:
I second
15 the motion.
16
CHAIRPERSON DICKENS:
Council
17 Member Rivera seconds the motion. All those in
18 favor say aye.
19 20 21 22
MANY VOICES: Aye. CHAIRPERSON DICKENS: [No nays] CHAIRPERSON DICKENS:
Knowing that
Nays?
23 the ayes have it and there being no nays, I am now
24 going to close this portion of the meeting and
25
reopen in executive session.
I ask that members
5
1
CHAIRPERSON DICKENS: We are now
COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS
2 of the public and Council staff except Committee
3 staff clear the room and the floor. Council
4 Member Rodriguez and his counsel and the
5 complainant may, of course, stay in the room.
6 Sergeant of Arms?
7
SERGEANT AT ARMS: Ladies and
8 gentlemen, at this time everyone has to exit the
9 room, we're going into executive session.
10 [Repeats instructions in Spanish] .
11 [Pause]
12
CHAIRPERSON DICKENS: Thank you so
13 much and at this time I also want to acknowledge,
14 I also want to acknowledge that New York State
15 Assembly Member Adrianna Espaillat as well as many
16 of the other community people are here. Thank you
17 so much.
18 [Pause]
19 [END Standard Ethics 8-4-
20 2010 part 3.mp3]
21 [START Standard Ethics 8-4-
22 2010 part 4-1.mp3]
23 [Background noise]
24 [Gavel banging]
6
2 meeting in executive session. We are here to
3 investigate an allegation made against Council
4 Member Ydanis Rodriguez; specifically
5 ~an employee in the Finance Division reported
6 to Speaker Quinn that on Friday June 25th, 2010,
7 she was poked in an area between her throat and
8 her upper chest by Council Member Rodriguez. ,...
9 ....... 's duties include staffing the Council's
10 11
1
COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS
12 The Speaker referred this matter to
13 the Committee on Standards and Ethics on Monday,
14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22
June 25th•
The Committee opened this matter and
appointed a Subcommittee to conduct a preliminary
investigation.
The Subcommittee consisted of
myself, Council Member Inez E. Dickens and my colleagues Council Member James Oddo and Council Member Annabel Palma.
On Tuesday June 29th, 2010 the Subcommi ttee conducted Ln t e r v i ew s wi th-. Council Member Ydanis Rodriguez, and the following
23 Council employees who were identified by either
24 or the Subcommittee as potentially
25 having information that may be relevant to the
7
1
Pakhi Sengupta, Eisha Wright.
The Subcommittee
COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS
2 preliminary investigation: Angel Audiffred,
3 Latonia McKinney, Danielle Porcaro, Jeffrey Rodus,
4
5 also had informal conversations with all of the
6 members of the Manhattan delegation because the
7 incident is alleged to have occurred at the end of
8 the Manhattan delegation meeting.
9 The members of the delegation were
10 asked if they noticed or saw any unusual
11 interaction between a staff member and a Council
12
Member.
Neither the Council Members nor the staff
13 member in question were identified. None of the
14 15 16 17 18
members of the Manhattan delegation indicated that they saw any incident between a Council Member and
a staff member.
Based upon the interviews of each
witness the Subcommittee reported to the Committee
's claims were substantiated.
The
that
19 Committee, through Committee Counsel, notified
20 Council Member Rodriguez of its intention to
21 proceed with a hearing by letter on July 22nd,
22 2010.
23 That letter set forth general
24 guidelines for the hearing including that Council
25 Member Rodriguez could be accompanied by counsel,
8
1
submitted by him or by the Committee.
The
COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS
2 would receive a list of potential witnesses that
3 could be called by the Committee at the hearing
4 and that he would have the opportunity to make a
5 statement at the beginning and at the end of his
6 questioning.
7 And a separate letter dated July
8 23rd, 2010, the Committee further noticed Council
9 Member Rodriguez of the list of potential
10 witnesses, that he would have the opportunity to
11 submit witnesses to appear at the hearing and that
12 he could propose questions for each witness
13
14 Committee reserved the right to call all or none
15 of Council Member Rodriguez' suggested witnesses
16 and to use all or none of Council Member
17 Rodriguez' suggested questions.
18 Today the Committee will hear from
19 the following witnesses: Council Member Maria del
20 Carmen Arroyo; Mr. Angel Audiffred, Joanna Garcia;
21 Council Member Jessica Lappin; Ms. Danielle
22 Porcaro; Council Member Ydanis Rodriguez; Mr.
23
Jeffrey Rodus; Ms. Sengupta;
and Ms.
24
Wright.
Witnesses may make a statement to the
2 5
Committee prior to their questioning.
The initial
9
1
Committee.
Each witness's statement and the
COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS
2 questioning will be conducted by Committee
3
Council, Nadir Joshua.
The Committee may ask any
4 follow up questions it deems appropriate.
5 This portion of the hearing though
6 in executive session is being recorded by the
7
8 questions and answers will be recorded and the
9 recording will be transcribed in accordance with
10 Council policy.
11 The Committee will decide whether
12 the allegations of misconduct against Council
13 Member Ydanis Rodriguez is substantiated based on
14
a preponderance of evidence.
Should the Committee
15 find that the allegation is substantiated it will
16 submit a report to the full Council along with a
17 copy of the transcript, redacted to protect the
18 complainant's identify.
19 The report will contain a
20
recommendation for appropriate sanctions.
The
21 Committee will now begin to hear testimony and we
22 will start with But before we go, I'm
23 asking is there any other, does Council Member
24 Rodriguez have - - to record this hearing? I
25 didn't hear that.
10
1
COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS
2
COUNSEL FOR COUNCIL MEMBER
3 RODRIGUEZ: Oh no.
4
CHAIRPERSON DICKENS: Are you the
5 attorney for Council Member Rodriguez--
6 COUNSEL FOR COUNCIL MEMBER
7
RODRIGUEZ:
[Interposing] Yes I am.
8
CHAIRPERSON DICKENS: Okay.
9
COUNSEL FOR COUNCIL MEMBER
10 RODRIGUEZ: Am I allowed to--I can take notes?
11 Yeah, okay. We're not recording.
12
13
14
15
CHAIRPERSON DICKENS: Okay .....
good morning.
Good morning.
CHAIRPERSON DICKENS: This is the
16 statement I'm going to read.
17 Okay.
18
CHAIRPERSON DICKENS: Thank you for
19 joining us today and as you have been previously
20 instructed with respect to this investigation you
21 will not be retaliated against or in any way
22 disciplined for making your original complaint.
23 Until this matter is resolved Council Member
24 Rodriguez has been instructed that he and his
staff are not to have contact with
u.
11
1
COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS
2 If you think you are being
3 retaliated against by the Council Member, any
4 member of his staff or anyone else in the Council
5 for making this complaint, you should immediately
6 contact Committee Counsel Nadir Joshua.
7 if you have a prepared
8 statement you may read it into the record. And
9 after your statement, Attorney Joshua may ask you
10 questions to gather additional information about
11 the alleged incident between you and Council
12 Member Rodriguez. We may interrupt you if he
13 needs clarification about any of your answers.
14 This is to ensure that the Committee has a full
15 and clear picture of what occurred.
16 You should let Mr. Joshua know that
17 if you do not understand any questions he asks and
18 you are free to stop at any point if you desire to
19
take a break.
This hearing is being taped and
20
will be transcribed.
This investigation is
21 pursuant to Council policy.
22 You are asked to answer truthfully
23
all questions asked of you.
If it is determined
24 that you have been untruthful in your appearance
2S before the Committee, you may be subject to
12
1
COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS
2 disciplinary action up to and including
3
termination.
Do you understand the statement I
4 have read?
5
6
~ Yes.
CHAIRPERSON DICKENS:
You may read
7 your statement now but would you please identify
8 who is with you.
10 ......
11 Good morning. My name is ........
12 ~ I work for the Finance Division as a
13
14
15
16
and staff the
and
Committee and
the.- Committee on--..
I've worked at
17 the Council for over three and a half years and in
18 that time I have been the Finance Analyst to the
20 I would like to read my statement
21 in regards to the incident that occurred on June
22 25~h, 2010 between Council Member Ydanis Rodriguez
23
and me.
On Thursday June 24"n, a meeting of the
24 New York City Council Budget Negotiating Team
25 occurred to review the proposed budget agreement
13
1
COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS
2 between the Mayor and the City Council, between
3 3:00 and 4:00 that afternoon.
4 Immediately following the BNT
5 meeting all Borough delegations of the Council met
6 in assigned rooms in City Hall to also review the
7 proposed budget agreement. I was assigned to the
8 Bronx Borough delegation. During this review I
9 was pulled from the Bronx to answer a question by
10 the Manhattan Borough delegation in regards to the
11 proposed decision for the Council to fund the
12 Puerto Rican Studies Institute known as El Centro
13 and the Dominican Studies Institute which are part
14 of the City University of New York System at
15 $250,000 each which left each institute with a
16 decrease of $220,000.
17 As I did not know the rationale
18 behind this funding decrease I sought out the
19 Finance Division Director Preston Niblack for this
20 information before speaking to the Manhattan
21
delegation.
He shared that since the Council
22 would restore CUNY's operational need of $21.4
23 million and funded the Vallone Scholarship, CUNY
24 would find the funds to keep each institute whole.
25 I then went into the Red Room where the Manhattan
14
1
information.
The delegation did not have any
COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS
2 delegation was meeting and shared this
3
4 follow-up questions or concerns in regards to my
5 response and I was able to leave the Red Room and
6 return to the Bronx delegation.
7 The Chair of the Higher Education
8 Committee, Ydanis Rodriguez, was in the Red Room
9 where I shared this information along with his
10 Chief of Staff, Angel Audiffred. Neither Council
11 Member Rodriguez nor Angel contacted me or anyone
12 in my division during or after this meeting. And
13 later that night the handshake between the Mayor
14 and the Speaker took place at City Hall on the
15 proposed budget agreement.
16 On Friday, June 25th, another BNT
17 meeting occurred around 3:00 P.M. to review any
18 proposed changes that any of the Borough
19 delegations might have brought up the night
20 before, any details overlooked at yesterday's
21 meeting, and to discuss possible designations to
22
be included at the budget adoption.
Immediately
23 following the BNT meeting the Borough delegations
24 were asked to meet so that these changes and
25 possible designations could be decided upon.
15
9 10 11 12 13 14
1
COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS
2 The Bronx delegation was one of the
3 delegations to be finished early so I left the
4 Green Room and went upstairs to use the lavatory.
5 Upon my return, my Deputy Director, Latonia
6 McKinney who was assisting the Brooklyn delegation
7 in the Council Chambers asked me to retrieve a
8 colleague, Eisha Wright, to discuss the DOVE
initiative and review designations.
I went back downstairs to find Eisha in the Red Room reviewing this initiative
one on one with Council Members.
She was
currently meeting with Council Member Mark-
Viverito.
I excused myself and shared the request
15 for her presence when she finished with the
16 17 18 19 20 21
22
23
24
25
Manhattan delegation.
I then walked out of the
Red Room and crossed paths with Council Member
Rodriguez and Angel.
I greeted Council Member
Rodriguez with a handshake when he said he needed to speak with me.
He began leading me to the Green Room but there were Bronx delegation members still in the room and he then backed up--backed up still searching but there was no room available for a
private conversation.
He then pulled me back into
16
1 2
He
COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS
the Red Room a few feet away from the door.
3 stood with his back to the wall and I stood facing
4 him with my back to the center of the room with
5 only a few inches of space between the two of us.
6 This was my first conversation with him in
7 approximately a week or so.
8 Council Member Rodriguez stated
9 loudly and sternly I do not appreciate as Chair of
10 the Higher Education Committee not being consulted
11 on the decision to not fund the Puerto Rican and
12 Dominican Institutes. While saying I do not
13 appreciate it, he has his pointer, middle and
14 index finger half cupped for emphasis of these
15 words which culminated in him poking me in the
16 area between the top of my chest plate and the
17 bottom of my throat.
18 It was after the word appreciate
19 20
that he dropped his hand.
In shock I leaned back
and said okay.
The Council Member continues but
21 at a lower voice decibel that the two institutes
22 should not have to wait on CUNY to secure the
23
remaining funds.
Instead the Council should make
24 the institutes whole by using the $400,000 from
25 the operational support funding.
17
1
Chambers.
I ran into Latonia on the steps and I
COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS
2
Still in shock and confused as to
3 why he was sharing this with me, I responded I
4 will share this with leadership. I do not recall
5
what his response was.
I quickly walked away from
6 him and began walking upstairs to the Council
7
8 told Latonia that Council Member Rodriguez just
9 yelled at me over the funding for the Puerto Rican
10 and Dominican Institutes and how he poked me.
11 She was upset over the exchange and
12 13
stated that she would say something to him.
I
told her no.
She was tired and upset and I didn't
14 think it should be her place to say something.
15 She asked me a few times if I was sure and I said
16
I told her I would send an email to Jeff
yes.
17 Road, First Deputy Director in the Finance
18 Division.
19 I continued upstairs and walked
20 through the chambers to the lavatory where I began
21
I gathered myself together and walked
to cry.
22 downstairs and using my phone and through my
23 personal email account while returning downstairs
24 I sent Jeff an email titled Rodriguez issue which
25 I stated: Council Member Rodriguez came at me
18
1
Literally came at me.
It was sent at 4:57 P.M.
COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS
2 about the institutes not being fully funded.
3
4 I saw Council Member Rodriguez
5 still around the area where the copier machine was
6 in between Ramon Martinez' office and the Red
7
I did not want to engage any further with
Room.
8 him and I went into the main waiting area outside
9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17
of the Speaker's and Chuck Meara's offices.
I was
hoping to see Jeff, Preston or Ramon Martinez, First Deputy Chief of Staff to the Speaker but I
did not.
I did not receive Jeff's response on my
phone so I thought he didn't respond. But apparently he did.
About 15 minutes later I walked out into the corridor and ran into Latonia again
outside of the member's lounge.
I began to cry
18 again and Latonia thought something else had
19 occurred and I shared I was still upset over the
20 earlier incident and I told her I could still feel
21
his fingers at my throat.
She suggested that we
22 leave since I was so upset.
23
When entering the Green Room to
24 gather my belongings, Council Member Jackson and
25 Council Member Arroyo were sitting in the room and
19
1
COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS
2 Joanna Garcia who is the Interim Executive
3 Director of the Black, Latino and Asian Caucus was
4 also there. And she asked if I could speak to the
5 Chairs about the Coalition of Theaters of Color
6
Initiative.
Still upset I asked if she could give
7 me a moment to gather myself which she did.
8 Latonia was ready to go but when I
9 told her about the briefing request she sat with
10
me while I gave the briefing.
It was about 5:30
11 P.M. when I finished with Council Members Arroyo
12 and Jackson. And when walking out, we ran into
13 Jeff who wanted to speak to me about capital
14 funding.
15 Latonia had to leave for child care
16
issues and I remained with Jeff.
Neither Jeff nor
17 I referred to my email or his response that I
18 19
hadn't received on my phone.
I figured we would
discuss later.
He wanted me to go over cultural
20 capital projects with the Speaker before leaving
21 for the night and I told him I needed to return to
22 our offices at 250 Broadway to retrieve my capital
23 binder.
24 I walked over and found my
25 colleague Pakhi Sengupta still in the office. And
20
1
COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS
2 as we were--as we are in the same unit we often
3 vent to each other about difficult situations we
4
face in our positions.
I shared with her the
5 exchange I had with Council Member Rodriguez and I
6 knew when I returned across the street I needed to
7 discuss with Jeff and Preston.
8 Pakhi supported me in my decision
9 to share with Jeff and Preston and she also
10
suggested that I tell the Speaker directly.
I
11 returned to City Hall and walked into the waiting
12 room outside the Speaker's Office. Jeff came out
13 and I blurted out the story to him. Jeff
14 immediately called the Speaker and Ramon into the
15 16
waiting room.
He told them that Council Member
Rodriguez had put his hands on me.
The Speaker
17 asked me to share with her the entire story and
18 demonstrate how the Council Member had touched me.
19 During this time Preston entered
20 the room and now my entire leadership was aware of
21
this situation.
The Speaker requested Liz Fine or
22 Jim Caras from the General Counsel's Office to
23
come over and speak to me.
The Counsel then moved
24 me into Chuck Meara's office for privacy. And Jim
25 and Nadir Joshua from the General Counsel's Office
21
1
COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS
2 came In and I shared what had happened.
3 The Speaker then returned and said
4 she was going to file a complaint with the
S 6
Committee on Standards and Ethics. was okay with this and I said yes.
She asked if I Jim and Nadir
7 returned to the room and went over the procedure
8 of the Committee and I was asked not to speak to
9 anyone about the incident, I should not speak with
10 Council Member Rodriguez or his staff and the
11 Council Member or his staff should not speak to
12 me.
13 They shared that I could file a
14 police report but I chose to handle the matter
lS
internally.
I was given the option to leave for
16 the night or continue working and I chose to
17
continue working.
I needed to keep busy. And Jim
18 and Nadir gave me their cell phone numbers. I had
19 regained my composure and went back to work.
20 Between 8:00 and 8:30 P.M. that
21 night I returned to the office and at the entrance
22 of 250 Broadway I ran into Danielle Porcaro, Kate
23 Seely Kirk [phonetic], Melanie LaRocca [phonetic],
24 Eunic Ortiz and others who were leaving the
25
building.
They invited me out with them but I
22
1
COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS
2 declined. Danielle pulled me to the side and
3 shared that Pakhi told her what had happened and I
4 told her that I just shared with the Speaker and
S leadership. And since there was a large crowd we
6 didn't discuss further.
7 I went inside and upstairs and
8
found Pakhi still in the office.
I told her that
9 I had shared with the Speaker and leadership and
10
that the Speaker had filed a formal complaint.
11 then asked her to not share this situation with
12 anyone and she told me about Danielle and I told
13 her not to worry about it because she had shared
14 before the formal complaint was filed.
lS I straightened up and prepared for
16 a 9:00 A.M. meeting I had with Jeff on Saturday
17 for leaving for the night. This concludes my
18 statement. Thank you for this opportunity to
19 20 21 22 23 24
share what led to and occurred on Friday, June
I'm happy to answer any question you may
have at this time.
CHAIRPERSON DICKENS: Thank you so
much for your statement. And an initial set of questions will be asked by the Committee attorney.
25
MR. NADIR JOSHUA: Hi
So
23
I
1
hand dropped and he poked you.
How many times did
COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS
2 you indicated that the Council Member, when he met
3 with you, used three fingers and at some point his
4
5 he poke you?
6 I t was around two to
7 three times.
8 9
MR. JOSHUA:
Thank you.
COUNCIL MEMBER IGNIZIO:
I'm sorry
10 Committee Chairman, Council Member Ignizio, can
11 you demonstrate the air what you're referring to
12
in terms of three, so I just get a visual.
I know
13 it can't be heard on the--just so we can--sorry to
14 interrupt.
15 It, it's, it was like
16 when he was saying I do not appreciate, so it's
17 18 19 20 21 22
like I, do not, appreciate. it's.
In this area.
So
COUNCIL MEMBER IGNIZIO:
Okay so
it's three fingers and a thump--
[Interposing] Hum.
COUNCIL MEMBER IGNIZIO:
--type of
23 thing.
25
HR. JOSHUA:
Thank you.
So you
24
1
It was too chaotic, I,
COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS
2 also indicated that the incident happened around
3
sort of outside of the Red Room.
Do you remember
4 anyone who was in or around the Red Room at the
S time of the incident?
No. The incident
6
7 happened inside the Red Room and though there were
8 many people in the room with my back facing the--
9 with my back to the inside of the room I, I do not
10 recall anyone specifically who was there at the
11 time.
12
MR. JOSHUA: And you said that
13 there were members who were in the Green Room.
lS
MR. JOSHUA:
Do you remember who
16 those members were?
17 No.
Okay. All right.
You
18
MR. JOSHUA:
19 indicated that when he met you, when he spoke--
20 when the Council Member spoke to you initially,
21 your words were he said loudly and sternly that he
22 didn't appreciate not being told about the
23 changes. Would you say that his statement to you
24 was audible by other people in the area?
-
2S
2S
1
MR. JOSHUA: Okay. So I mean--
COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS
2 I would say yes but I don't, I don't know.
3
4 right. Not that you know whether or not other
5 people heard but it would--it could be possible
6 for someone else to have heard.
7 Yes.
8
MR. JOSHUA: Okay. And then you
9 said after that his, his tone sort of--
10 [Interposing] Dropped.
11
MR. JOSHUA: --decreased and he
12 became less audible to other people.
13 ~ Yes.
14
MR. JOSHUA: Okay. So you've
15 identified Pakhi Sengupta, Latonia McKinney,
16 Jeffrey Rodus, and Speaker Quinn and Danielle
17 Porcaro as people who you spoke to about the
18
incident.
Is there anyone else at the Council who
19 you spoke to about the incident?
20 Eisha Wright.
21
MR. JOSHUA: And what is Eisha
22 Wright's position at the Council?
23 She lS the Supervising
24 Legislative Financial Analyst.
25
MR. JOSHUA: And you had previously
26
1
MR. JOSHUA:
So do you know if she
COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS
2 said in your statement that Ms. Wright was in the
3 Red Room and that you had gone into the Red Room
4 to get her to go to another meeting.
5 Yes.
6
7 witnessed the interaction with you and Council
8 Member Rodriguez?
9 No I don't think so
10 because she was--it's--involved doing her, her
11 work that--and I think her back was--would--would
12 13
be to, to us.
MR. JOSHUA:
So when did you speak
14 to Ms. Wright?
15 Some time in between--
16 before leaving, before leaving City Hall, so
17 sometime before she went upstairs to deal with the
18 Brooklyn, Brooklyn delegation because I think she
19 saw me with Latonia being upset and so we talked
20 about it.
21
MR. JOSHUA:
Okay. And so did she
22 approach you about the incident or did you
23 approach her?
24
She, she approached
25 just not necessarily about the incident, she just
27
1
COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS
2 approached because she saw where I was upset.
3 MR. JOSHUA: And what did you tell
4 her?
5 And I told her that I
6 had just had an incident with Council Member
7 Rodriguez.
8
MR. JOSHUA: And did you say
9 anything else?
10 No.
11
MR. JOSHUA: And how did she
12 respond?
13
14
15
Upset.
MR. JOSHUA: Did she say anything? No. She could--no she
16 was just--expressed concern, wanted to make sure
17 that I was okay but she then had to go on to the
18 Brooklyn delegation.
19 MR. JOSHUA: And did you talk to
20 her at any other point about the incident?
21 She asked me again if I
22 was okay later that night.
23
MR. JOSHUA: And what did you tell
24 her about that--
25 [Interposing] And I
28
1
COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS
2 said that I was fine. But at that point the
3 formal complaint had been filed so I had no
4 longer; I didn't give any details after that.
5
MR. JOSHUA: Okay. So you told her
6 that you filed a complaint.
7 Yes.
8 MR. JOSHUA: And was anyone else
9 around when you spoke to?
10 No.
11 MR. JOSHUA: To Eisha. Was anyone
12 else around when you spoke to Latonia McKinney
13 about the incident?
14 15
No.
MR. JOSHUA: Was anyone else around
16 when you spoke to Jeff Rodus about the incident?
17
Yes.
Because we were
18 in the waiting room, the waiting room area outside
19 of the Speaker's Office. So the Speaker's staff
20 in that area, they were around. That was it.
21 MR. JOSHUA: Did you talk to any of
22 them directly?
23 No.
24 MR. JOSHUA: About the incident.
25
No.
29
1 2
MR. JOSHUA: Was anyone else around
COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS
3 when you spoke to--you mentioned that there were
4 several people who were also around when you spoke
5 to Danielle Porcaro but none of the--did you talk
6 to any of those people?
7 No.
8
MR. JOSHUA: Have you spoken with
9 anyone else at the Council about your interaction?
10 No.
11 MR. JOSHUA: With Council Member
12 Rodriguez. And you reported it directly to the
13 Speaker.
14 Yes.
15 MR. JOSHUA: And why did you report
16 the incident?
17 Because it was an
18 incident and I felt that she needed to know what
19 had happened between a Council Member and one of
20 her staff.
21 MR. JOSHUA: Did anyone encourage
22 you to report the incident?
23 No.
24
MR. JOSHUA: Okay.
So those are my
25
questions.
If the Council Members have additional
30
1
COUNCIL MEMBER 0000:
COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS
2 questions.
3
CHAIRPERSON DICKENS: If my
4 Committee has any?
5 [Pause]
CHAIRPERSON DICKENS: Council
6 7 8
Member Oddo?
9 when you spoke to--with Council Member Rodriguez
10 in and around the Red Room, was his Chief of--do
11 you recall if his Chief of Staff was around?
12 I know that he was with
13 us when he was looking for an area to talk to me
14 but I don't know if he was standing right next to
15 us when we had this--
16 17 18
COUNCIL MEMBER 0000:
[ Interposing]
Okay--
--conversation.
19 COUNCIL MEMBER 0000: --okay the
20 only other question I have is do you believe that
21 Council Member Rodriguez when, when you say he had
22 his fingers cupping that he intended to touch you
23 or do--was it incidental? Do you--or you don't
24 know?
25
I don't know.
I wo u.I d
31
1
COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS
2 like to believe that it wasn't intentionally but I
3 don't know if it was or wasn't.
COUNCIL MEMBER 0000: Okay thank
4
5 you.
6 Thank you.
7
CHAIRPERSON DICKENS:
Council
8 Member Jackson?
9 10
COUNCIL MEMBER JACKSON:
Thank you
and friend.
Madam Chair.
Good morning
11 But you had--you, in your testimony that you read,
12 you had indicated that Council Member Rodriguez, I
13 believe you said in a somewhat loud voice or loud
14 voice said he did not appreciate, and he
15 emphasized that you had said that you were within
16 several inches of each other.
17 I would classify that as within a
18 foot of each other when he was communicating with
19 you. And you showed that he was emphasizing with
20 his hand. And that he touched you or poked you
21
between your chin and your chest.
I guess my
22 question is what was the--before him communicating
23
with you, what was, sorry.
How would you
24 characterize Council Member Rodriguez' demeanor
25 during or before this conversation?
32
1
COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS
2 When I, when I went to
3 greet him and I was shaking his hand, he had a, he
4
didn't have a happy demeanor.
So I knew that, you
5 know, it was serious like he had--he needed to
6 have a serious conversation with me.
7
COUNCIL MEMBER JACKSON: And how
8 was your demeanor prior to that incident?
9 10
......
Happy_
COUNCIL MEMBER JACKSON: Okay. And
11 how would you characterize Council Member
12 Rodriguez' demeanor during the interaction? And
13 how would you characterize your demeanor during
14 15
that interaction?
I:
C £
He, the seriousness
16 stayed as he was making his statement I do not
17
appreciate.
Once his voice lowered and he began
18 to speak about his idea of where the funding
19 should come from, he kind of resumed to the normal
20 demeanor that I'm used to him being more, you
21
know, friendly and open. Mine was of shock.
So I
22 believe, you know, I believe that if I had a
23 mirror in front of me my eyes would be as wide as
24 they could possibly be and I just--I became
25 serious.
33
1
COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS
2
COUNCIL MEMBER JACKSON:
Now you
3 had, you gave testimony that the two of you were
4 basically very close In proximity. And so close
5 enough that where he was talking to you, that he
6 actually poked you several times.
7 Yes.
8
COUNCIL MEMBER JACKSON:
During
9 this incident did you, if you are aware, did you
10 step back or did you remain in the position in
11 which you were?
I leaned back.
I don't
12 13
think I took any steps back.
I just kind of just
14 leaned back.
15
COUNCIL MEMBER JACKSON:
In your
16 opinion do you believe that Council Member
17 Rodriguez, if you have an opinion at all, do you
18 have an opinion on do you believe that the Council
19 Member was aware that he was poking you?
20 I don't know. Again I
21 would like to think that he--it wasn't intentional
22 but I don't know.
23
COUNCIL MEMBER JACKSON:
Now you
24 had testified that this took place in the Red Room
25 near the door, is that correct?
34
1 2 3
COUNCIL MEMBER JACKSON: And you
COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS
That's correct.
4 said that your back was facing the Red Room so in
5 essence you were facing more, I guess, towards the
6 door, is that correct?
7 Yes. The wall.
8 COUNCIL MEMBER JACKSON: So Council
9 Member Rodriguez' position of his body was facing,
10 his face was facing in towards the Red Room.
11 Correct. Okay. And this took place the day after
12 the handshake. Is that correct?
13 14
Correct.
COUNCIL MEMBER JACKSON: Okay.
15 Okay. Thank you.
16
Thank you.
17 CHAIRPERSON DICKENS: The
18 Committee, also, I want to note at this point that
19 we have asked for and received a copy of the email
20 exchange between Mr. Jeffrey Rodus and you""
21 ....
22
Okay. Council Member
23 Ignizio.
24
COUNCIL MEMBER IGNIZIO: Yes, thank I have in my possession that email which
25
you.
35
1
question.
Is this something that, from your
COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS
2 reads Council Member Rodriguez came at me about
3 the institutes not being fully funded, literally
4
came at me.
With that, you imply physically with
5 a touching aspect.
6 Have you ever encountered a
7 situation which would have made you believe that
8 Council Member Rodriguez would have done something
9 like this or was it totally a shock to you that
10 this is not his demeanor as a general rule and
11 this, you know, I think you understand the
12
13 perspective, came out of left field, that I didn't
14 think this was within his?
15 I did not think that
16 this incident would ever occur.
17
COUNCIL MEMBER IGNIZIO:
So nothing
18 prior to this ever occurred--
19 [Interposing] No.
20
COUNCIL MEMBER IGNIZIO:
--where he
21 would raise his voice or he would, you know,
22 where--
24
or to any of the other Committee staff.
It hadn't
25 happened.
36
1 2
COUNCIL MEMBER IGNIZIO: Okay. And
COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS
3 just so I put this in context, historically if a
4 Council Member were to be adamant or emotional
5 have you experienced that in the past of--no
6 touching, clearly, but a Council Member, you know
7 sometimes, me, I speak with my hands a lot, as you
8 can see, I just, that's how I am.
9 R. J. has a loud voice sometimes.
10 I mean something like that where that's elicited
11 emotional response from a Council Member that you
12 have, hey, the guy or the girl was just upset.
13 They're upset about a budget item but, you know,
14 that was that. Have you ever experienced that in
15 the past?
16 Not towards me.
17 18
COUNCIL MEMBER IGNIZIO: Not
towards you.
Okay.
Thank you very much.
Thank
19 you Madam Chair.
20 CHAIRPERSON DICKENS:
21 how would you describe your relationship with
22 Chair Rodriguez prior to this incident, how would
23 you describe your relationship?
24 It was a new working
25
relationship.
I think we were just learning each
37
1 2
COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS
other.
I do--we didn't spend a lot of time around
3 each other, just trying to help him get through
4 the preliminary and executive budget hearings and
5 making sure that he understood CUNY's budget, so
6 new, professional, courteous.
17 well as the _ Commi ttee on
18 CHAIRPERSON DICKENS: And but were
19 you wi th.- prior to being--January 1 of
20 2010.
21 Yes.
7 8 9
10 11 12 13 14 15 16
22
CHAIRPERSON DICKENS: All right.
And now how long have you been on staff with the Council?
Over three and a half
years.
CHAIRPERSON DICKENS: Well were you with any other Committees other than & If?
I'm currently and
~~- .. a •• '_ Committee, as
Yes.
also on the
CHAIRPERSON DICKENS: So prior to
23 you also worked on the same Committee.
24 Yes.
2S
CHAIRPERSON DICKENS: All right.
38
1
COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS
And also on
you said. Yes.
CHAIRPERSON DICKENS: So at times,
2 3 4
5 Council Members have all been told about various
6 cuts and enhancements to items on the budget.
7
_:
Yes.
8 CHAIRPERSON DICKENS: All right.
9 Have you ever in the past had an experience with
10 one of your Chairs, since you have two Committees?
11 12
~:
Yes.
CHAIRPERSON DICKENS:
That were hit
13 with a cut to their budget and how did they handle
14 it? How did other Council Members handle it? You
15 understand what I'm asking?
16 Yes.
17 CHAIRPERSON DICKENS: What is the
18 procedure for Council Members that you know of, if
19 there is a cut? Is that we come at you or ask you
20 about it or what--what--
21
[Interposing] No.
The,
22 for areas like that, for those kinds of purposes
23 they usually discuss with Ramon Martinez, they
24 talk to Preston Niblack or Jeffrey Rodus. They
25 would--because they're the ones that are always ln
39
1
--for the budget. CHAIRPERSON DICKENS: --who Preston
COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS
2 the room when it comes to negotiating--
CHAIRPERSON DICKENS:
[Interposing]
3 4 5 6
Can you tell me--
7 Niblack is?
8 Preston Niblack is the
9 Director of the Finance Division.
10
CHAIRPERSON DICKENS: Okay. - - so
11 he is the Director for the Finance Division.
12 Yes.
13
CHAIRPERSON DICKENS: And what
14 about Jeffrey Rodus?
15 Jeffrey Rodus is First
16 Deputy Director of the Finance Division.
17 18 19 20
CHAIRPERSON DICKENS: Council
Member Oddo?
COUNCIL MEMBER 0000: Thank you
at some point in, after
Madam Chair.
21 the alleged incident took place, did--was there a
22 moment when you shared this--the details of this
23 situation with a colleague and they encouraged you
24 to inform someone higher up in the Council
25 hierarchy where you indicated no I'd rather not or
40
1
COUNCIL MEMBER 0000: No. Where I
COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS
2 I don't want to?
4
5 don't want to make it an issue or something to
6 that effect?
7 8
No. The--I knew that I
was going to share with Preston and Jeff.
I think
9 in my statement I said that Pakhi Sengupta said
10 that I should, that I should tell the Speaker
11 directly myself instead of having Preston and Jeff
12 relay the incident. And I agreed with that and I
13 didn't even had a, you know, I didn't have to
14 worry about it anyway because Jeff brought the
15 Speaker in immediately.
16 COUNCIL MEMBER 0000: Okay. And
17 when you say loudly and sternly, could you just
18 say it to the degree, to the decibel level so that
19 I could better judge what your definition of
20 21
loudly and sternly is.
I'm smiling because I,
22 if anyone knows me; they know I have a very quiet
23 voice. So I'm not--I don't even know if I could--
24
COUNCIL MEMBER 0000:
[ Interposing]
25 Okay.
41
1 2 3
-= Sure.
COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS
._. Do that in.
COUNCIL MEMBER 0000: Okay. But
4 let me ask you one last question. Would you be
5 willing to demonstrate on me the actual touching?
6
7 COUNCIL MEMBER 0000: Madam Chair,
8 is that allowed?
9 CHAIRPERSON DICKENS: Absolutely.
10 I can even - -
11
COUNCIL MEMBER 0000:
[Laughing] I
12 don't know if I want that.
13 [Demonstration]
14
COUNCIL MEMBER ODDO: Like that?
15 Okay so it was not--it wasn't [demonstrating] but
16 it was I don't appreciate [demonstrating] Thank
17 you. That's it Madam Chair.
18 MR. JOSHUA: So the record should
19 20
reflect that
and Council Member Oddo
said I
were facing each other and when
21 don't appreciate, used three fingers to touch an
22 area between his throat and upper chest.
23
CHAIRPERSON DICKENS:
Demonstrate -
24 - although Council Member Oddo was--to demonstrate
25 had occurred between you and Council Member Ydanis
42
1
CHAIRPERSON DICKENS:
Do any of my
COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS
2 Rodriguez.
3 Correct.
4
5 Committee members have any other questions? Thank
6 you.
7 8 9
10 11
MR. JOSHUA: No, no, we thank you.
CHAIRPERSON DICKENS:
Thank you.
Thank you Committee.
[Pause]
CHAIRPERSON DICKENS:
I'm going to
12 call Ms. Eisha Wright - - .
13 [Background noise]
14
CHAIRPERSON DICKENS:
I want to
15 note that for the Committee, I want to note for
16 the Committee that was told she could
17 remain in the hearing room during the questioning,
18
but she chose not to.
Good morning. Would you
19 please state your name and your title and your
20 longevity with the Council?
21 22 23
MS. EISHA WRIGHT:
Good morning.
Good morning, my name is Eisha Wright.
On now?
Oh.
Good morning, my name is Eisha Wright.
I'm a
24 Supervising Legislative Financial Analyst in the
25 Finance Division and I've been with the City
43
1
COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS
2 Council since 2001.
3 4
much.
CHAIRPERSON DICKENS: Thank you so Thank you for meeting with us this morning.
5 You previously met with Council Member Palma,
6 Council Member Oddo and myself concerning an
7 investigation into an allegation of an incident
8 between Council Member Rodriguez and
9
...
The Committee on Standards and Ethics is
10 holding a hearing today to investigate
11 allegation further.
12 If you have a prepared statement
13 you may read it into the record. After such
14 statement, Committee Counsel, Nadir Joshua may ask
15 you questions to gather additional information
16
about the alleged incident.
He may interrupt you
17 if he needs clarification about any of your
18 answers.
19 This is to ensure that the
20 Committee has a full and clear picture of what
21
happened.
You should let Mr. Joshua know that if
22 you do not understand any of the questions he asks
23 of you and of course you are free to stop at any
24 point if you would like to take a break. After
25 Mr. Joshua's questions, Committee members may ask
44
1
pursuant to Council policy.
You are asked to
COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS
2 you additional follow up questions.
3 This hearing is being taped and
will be transcribed.
This investigation is
4 5
6 answer truthfully all questions asked of you. If
7 it is determined that you have been untruthful in
8 your appearance before the Committee, you may be
9 subject to disciplinary action up to and including
10 termination.
11 In addition, when you previously
12 met with Council Members Palma, Oddo and myself,
13 you were asked not to share the contents of this
14 incident or the Committee's investigations with
15 any press, any Council Members or anyone else
16 17 18 19 20
employed at the Council.
This prohibition remains
in effect.
Do you understand?
MS. WRIGHT:
Yes.
CHAIRPERSON DICKENS:
Thank you so
much.
Do you have a prepared statement or are you
21 ready to begin?
22
MS. WRIGHT:
I'm ready to begin.
23 do not have a prepared statement.
24
CHAIRPERSON DICKENS:
Thank you.
2S
MR. JOSHUA:
Thank you Eisha.
In
45
I
1
COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS
2 your position at the Council do you have regular
3 contact with Council Member Rodriguez?
4
MS. WRIGHT: No my first time
5 meeting with Council Member Rodriguez was on June
6 25th after the Manhattan delegation, I had to meet
7 with him to discuss one of the citywide Council
8 initiatives which was a domestic violence and
9 empowerment initiative.
10
MR. JOSHUA: And in that
11 interaction, how would you describe that
12 interaction?
13
MS. WRIGHT:
This was my, again, my
14 first time meeting with him, the interaction was
15
okay.
I don't know him personally.
I just
16 discussed three initiatives that he, excuse me,
17 three groups that he shares with Council Member
18 Jackson that was previously shared with Council
19
Member Martinez.
That was my first time
20 interacting with him.
21
MR. JOSHUA:
How would you describe
22 the Council Member's demeanor in that interaction?
23
L1 S. vJR I G H T :
Looking back after,
24 you know, knowing what took place he did appear to
25 be a little upset but again I've never had any
46
1
COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS
2 interaction with him so I don't know him
3 personally or know what his behavior is like--
4
MR. JOSHUA:
[Interposing] But at
5 the time of the incident did you perceive him to
6 be upset or is that just in retrospect?
7
MS. WRIGHT: Well he seemed a
8 little rushed but I was more focused on trying to
9 get through the initiatives to go upstairs and
10 meet with the Brooklyn delegation so, you know--
11
MR. JOSHUA:
[Interposing] You said
12 rushed, did you mean hurried as he seemed like he
13 was in a--needed to leave or be in another place?
14 15
MS. WRIGHT: A little hurried, yes.
MR. JOSHUA: Okay.
But he didn't--
16 did he seem--he didn't seem angry or agitated?
17 18
MS. WRIGHT: Not with me, no.
MR. JOSHUA:
Okay. And how was
19 your demeanor in that interaction?
20
MS. WRIGHT: My demeanor was fine.
21 I had just finished meeting with Council Member
22 Jackson and I was getting ready to ask to leave
23 the room and Council Member Jackson called me back
24 and said that Council Member Rodriguez was
25 actually here now so we could finish discussing
47
1
questions about that.
When did you first learn of
COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS
2 the initiative.
3
MR. JOSHUA: And when did--so the
4 interaction took place on Friday--
5 6 7
MS. WRIGHT:
MR. JOSHUA:
MS. WRIGHT:
[Interposing] Yes. --June 25 th __
June 25th, after the
8 Manhattan delegation had wrapped up their meeting.
Okay.
In your
9
MR. JOSHUA:
10 position do you have regular contact with
11 ~
12
13
MS. WRIGHT: Yes.
MR. JOSHUA: Can you describe your
14 interactions generally with her?
15
MS. WRIGHT:
Sure, we're both
16 Financial Analysts so oftentimes we'll meet
17 together to discuss, you know, a bunch of
18 documents and find better ways to coordinate with
19 our agencies.
20
Okay.
So
MR. JOSHUA:
21 identified you as a person she spoke with about
22 the alleged incident with Council Member
23
24
Rodri9uez.
So I'm just going to ask you some
25 the alleged incident?
48
1 2
delegation.
I was in the office by myself
COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS
MS. WRIGHT: After I had returned
3 back to the office from meeting with the Brooklyn
4
5 wrapping up, you know my paperwork. And ........
6 came in the office and I looked at her and her
7 face was--she appeared as if she was crying, her
8
face was red.
So I asked her what was wrong. And
9 she began to explain to me what took place with
10 her and Council Member Rodriguez.
11
MR. JOSHUA: And had you heard
12 about an incident at any point prior to that?
13
MS. WRIGHT: Well when I actually
14 had finished wrapping up In the Manhattan
15 delegation my boss, Andy Grossman and another
16 colleague, Regina, was standing outside of Ramon's
17 office--
18
MR. JOSHUA:
[Interposing] I'm
19 sorry could you just state Regina's last name?
20
MS. WRIGHT:
Regina Ryan.
So they
21 were standing outside of Ramon's office and Regina
22 said to me--
23
MR. JOSHUA:
[Interposing] Ramon? Ramon Martinez, I'm
24
MS. WRIGHT:
25
Regina said to me that either
sorry.
49
1 2
So I had, you
COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS
4S ...... or Pakhi Sengupta was crying.
3 know, looked back over my shoulder and saw
4 _' s back inside of the Green Room so I
5 figured that she wasn't crying and then when Pakhi
6 came out of Ramon's office I saw she wasn't crying
7 and then I went over to, back over to 250
8 Broadway. At that time I don't know what had
9 10
taken place.
It was when I got back to 250 and I
saw tha t _-.1It
explained to me what
11 happened to her while she was also in the Red
12 Room.
13
MR. JOSHUA:
So what did
14 say to you?
15
MS. WRIGHT:
16 that either when she was either coming in or
17 coming--going in or coming out of the Red Room
18 that Council Member Rodriguez had basically
19 cornered her and had expressed verbally to her
20 that he was upset at the fact that he was not
21 included in any of the items pertaining to his
22 Committee. Whereas like citywide Council
23 initiatives. And she said that he had physically
24 got in her personal space and had like pointed in
2S her neck, you k n ow , into her throat area--
50
1 2 3
COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS
MR. JOSHUA: [Interposing] And-MS. WRIGHT: --telling her how
4 upset he was.
5
6 7 8 9
10 11
MR. JOSHUA: And the record should
just reflect that Ms. Wright is now pointing at
her own neck to demonstrate how •••••
had
indicated that the Council Member allegedly pointed at her.
MS. WRIGHT: Yes.
MR. JOSHUA: Is that all she said
12 to you?
13
14 said.
15
16 17 18 19 20 21
22
23
24
MS. WRIGHT: Yes. That's all she
MR. JOSHUA: And how did you
respond?
MS. WRIGHT:
I told her that she
needed to say something because it's not her fault that he was not aware of the process or aware of the items that were taking place in his Committee. So I told her that she needed to say something to Preston about it.
[JjR. JOSHUl\:
To Preston?
HS. WRIGHT:
Preston Niblack, our
25 Director of the Finance Division.
51
1 2
COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS
MR. JOSHUA: Did you say anything
3 else?
4 S
it.
MS. WRIGHT: No I believe that was I mean I did give her a hug and told her that
6 I was sorry that happened to her but that was
7 basically it.
8 MR. JOSHUA: And this conversation
9 about the incident happened at 2S0 Broadway in the
10 Finance Division?
11 12
MS. WRIGHT: Yes it did.
MR. JOSHUA: And do you remember
13 what time the conversation happened?
14 lS 16
MS. WRIGHT:
It was late in the
afternoon.
I don't recall the time.
MR. JOSHUA: Did you have any
17 further communication about the incident?
18 MS. WRIGHT: No.
19 20
MR. JOSHUA: Okay.
So other than
responding that ••••••
should tell Preston
21 Niblack about the incident did you say anything
22
23
24
else to ...... ,?
remember.
MS. WRIGHT: Not that I can
I mean I was really sorry that that
25 happened to her but, you know, again I told her it
S2
1
COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS
2 was not in her control and that if the Council
3 Member had issues that he should speak to the
4 proper people about it, not, you know, direct
5 anything towards us.
6 MR. JOSHUA: And you said that ...
7 _ was crying and that's why you initially
8 spoke to her. Can you just generally describe her
9 demeanor?
10
MS. WRIGHT: Well when I saw her
11 she had appeared as if she had finished crying.
12 Her eyes were very red and she was very flustered-
13
14 15 16
MR. JOSHUA: [Interposing] Okay. MS. WRIGHT: --so I said to her, what's wrong, are you okay. And she
17 began to tell me what took place over in the Red
18 Room at City Hall.
19
MR. JOSHUA: Was--
20
MS. WRIGHT:
[Interposing] She was
21 visibly upset.
22
MR. JOSHUA: She w~s visibly upset.
23
Was anyone with you when you spoke to MS. WRIGHT: No.
-_?
24
2S
MR. JOSHUA: Was anyone around you
53
1
COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS
2 when you spoke to ~
3
MS. WRIGHT: No we were the only
4 ones in the office.
5
6
MR. JOSHUA: At that time.
MS. WRIGHT: Yes. At least that I
7 could see 'cause we were over by my area, my
8 cubicle.
9
MR. JOSHUA: Okay. Did you talk to
10 anyone at the Council about the alleged incident
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
between and Council Member Rodriguez?
MS. WRIGHT:
boss Andy Grossman.
MR. JOSHUA:
mention it to him?
MS. WRIGHT:
that day.
MR. JOSHUA:
Friday June 25th?
MS. WRIGHT:
[vIR. JOSHUA: I mentioned it to my
And when did you
I believe later on
So the day, being
21 And what did you say
22 to him?
23
24
MS. li'7RIGHT:
him that, you know,
I just basically told
-I had s awn ••••
25 when I came back to the office and that she
54
1
COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS
2 appeared upset and I told her--told him, you know,
3
what ••••• told me regarding Council Member
4 Rodriguez.
5
MR. JOSHUA: And how did he
6 respond?
7
8
MS. WRIGHT:
He didn't really have
much to say about it.
He said, you know, she
9 should follow up with Preston about it.
10
MR. JOSHUA:
So do you know where
11 you were when the alleged incident happened?
12
MS. WRIGHT: Apparently I was in
13 the Red Room when it took place but I had my back
14
to her and so I didn't see anything.
I was
15 communicating with Council Member Jackson and
16 Lisa, I don't know her last name, she's from
17 Council Member Mendez' office about the domestic
18
violence initiative.
So I was in the room but I
19 didn't hear what was taking place.
20
21
22
23
24
tVlR. JOSHUA: Have you spoken to
anyone else at the Council?
MS. WRIGHT: No.
MR. JOSHUA: About the incident
with - And have you spoken to any C:)uncil
Member about-- 55
1 2 3 4 5 6
observation of
COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS
MS. WRIGHT:
[Interposing] No.
MR. JOSHUA: --the incident. Okay.
Thank you.
MS. WRIGHT: You're welcome.
CHAIRPERSON DICKENS:
I'm opening
7 it up for Committee members, Council Member
Jackson.
8 9
COUNCIL MEMBER JACKSON: Good
10 morning Ms. Wright, how are you?
11 12
MS. WRIGHT:
I'm well thank you.
COUNCIL MEMBER JACKSON: Good.
13 I've listened to your testimony about the, what
14 you were told occurred and what you witnessed as
15 far as your, your conversation and your
16
And it's obvious that
17 you did not witness the incident, the alleged
18 incident whatsoever is that correct?
19 MS. WRIGHT: Yes that's correct.
20 COUNCIL MEMBER JACKSON: And you
21 said that you've worked for the Council since
22 2001.
23
MS. WRIGHT: Yes.
4
COUNCIL MEMBER JACKSON: And right
2S now your position is a Senior?
56
1
2
COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS
MS. WRIGHT: A Supervising
3 Legislative Financial Analyst.
4 S 6 7 8
COUNCIL MEMBER JACKSON: Okay
Supervising?
MS. WRIGHT:
Financial Analyst.
COUNCIL MEMBER JACKSON: Financial
And _
works in your
Analyst.
Okay.
9 division in your unit?
10
MS. WRIGHT: No she works in my
11 division but in another unit.
12
COUNCIL MEMBER JACKSON: Okay. And
13 how would you describe your relationship with her?
14
MS. WRIGHT: We are very close
lS friends.
16
COUNCIL MEMBER JACKSON: Close
17 friends?
18 19
MS. WRIGHT: Urn-hum.
COUNCIL MEMBER JACKSON: When you
20 say close friends, as colleagues, do you, do you,
21 are you friends outside of work or only in work?
22 Have you gone to dinner with her? To family
23 outings or what?
24
2S
of work.
MS. WRIGHT: We are friends outside She helped me plan my wedding.
S7
1
COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS
2 3 4
COUNCIL MEMBER JACKSON: Okay.
MS. WRIGHT: So we're very close. COUNCIL MEMBER JACKSON: Okay. And
5 how would you describe her personality?
6
MS. WRIGHT: She's very sweet. She
7 has a very calm demeanor. She's very
8 approachable, professional, honest person.
9
COUNCIL MEMBER JACKSON: And as far
10 as her honesty and integrity, in your opinion?
MS. WRIGHT:
I think she's very
11 12 13
honest and she holds herself with high integrity.
COUNCIL MEMBER JACKSON: Urn-hum.
14 Have you ever witnessed where she was loud or
15 screaming around the office?
16 MS. WRIGHT: No.
17 COUNCIL MEMBER JACKSON: And do you
18 have any knowledge of her having any alleged
19 incidents with any individuals internally as far
20 as staff or with Council Members, anything?
21
MS. WRIGHT: No.
22
COUNCIL MEMBER JACKSON: Okay. No
23 further questions, thank you.
24
CHAIRPERSON DICKENS: Thank you.
25 Council Member Ignizio.
58
1
2
3
4
COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS
COUNCIL MEMBER IGNIZIO:
Yes, thank
you.
Sorry, thank you very much.
Pardon me, Jim.
I kicked him on accident.
How was the touching
5 described to you if you may verbatim from .........
6 to you?
7
MS. WRIGHT: IIIIIIIfsaid to me
8 that Council Member Rodriguez approached her, got
9 into her personal space and, you knowr as he was
10 talking to her, used his finger to like point in
11 her throat and tell her how unhappy he was with
12 the way the process was in--the fact that he was
13 not included initiatives that were under his
14 Committee.
15
COUNCIL MEMBER IGNIZIO: Were any
16 descriptive words used in the description of the
17 touch? Forceful, just a poke, a point, something
18 to, something like that?
19
20
22
23
MS. WRIGHT:
She said it was more
of a poke but she said she tried to let it go but
then she could actually feel after she walked away
that, you know, wow he was like touching me.
COUNCIL MEMBER IGNIZIO:
Yes f:vla' am.
24 In the past in your dealings with Council Members
5 or staff, whatever, have you had any situations
59
1
MS. WRIGHT: And I've never seen or
COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS
2 whereby there's been an emotional but not physical
3 response, a Council Member who got angry, walked
4 away, stormed off, you know, is that part of, part
5 of doing business sometimes Council Members get
6 upset and they will vent their frustration and
7 walk away or is this something new that you have
8 just, you know, this is a new thing that you've
9 heard of recently?
10
MS. WRIGHT:
In my experience, this
11 is new. Again I've been with the Council since
12 2001.
13
14
COUNCIL MEMBER IGNIZIO:
Right.
15 heard of a Council Member who was verbally
16 disrespectful to any staff member.
17
Council Member IGNIZIO:
Including
18 raising their voice to a member, to a staff
19 member, excuse me.
20
MS. WRIGHT:
Including raising
21 22 2 3
their voice, yes.
COUNCIL MEMBER IGNIZIO:
Okay thank
you very much.
No further questions.
24
CHAIRPERSON DICKENS:
Thank you so
2S
much.
What Committee are you a Financial Analyst
60
1
MS. WRIGHT:
I cover the Committee
COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS
2 to?
3
4 on Juvenile Justice which has oversight over the
5 Department of Juvenile Justice, the Committee on
6 Fire and Criminal Justice Services.
7 8
CHAIRPERSON DICKENS:
Urn-hum.
MS. WRIGHT:
I cover the Department
9 of Probation, the Department of Correction,
10 Indigent Defense and Legal Services as well as the
11 Gov Ops Committee in which I manage the Law
12 Department.
13
CHAIRPERSON DICKENS: And so over
14 the years you've had occasion to be the messenger,
15 if you will, of delivering to Council Members,
16 cuts and/or enhancements to a budget item.
17 18
MS. WRIGHT:
Yes.
CHAIRPERSON DICKENS: And during
19 the years, since 2001 you've done that--
20
MS. WRIGHT:
[Interposing] Since
21 2005 I've been with Finance--
22 23
CHAIRPERSON DICKENS:
[Interposing]
Since 2005.
Have you had occasion where any
24 Council Member that you had to deliver news that
25 cut occurred to their budget item, was that, is
61
1
MS. WRIGHT:
Yes oftentimes Council
COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS
2 that normally discussed with you? Were cuts--you
3 delivered the message that the cuts occurred but
4 do the Council Members generally discuss with you
5 their dismay or their dislike or their reasons--
6 requesting reasons to you as a Financial Analyst?
7
8 Members do, you know, defer to us because we're
9 the first line of contact and we'll discuss the
10 initiative, you know, whether it's a cut or an
11 enhancement and then I will give that message to
12 my Director, you know, my Assistant--my Deputy
13 Director Andy Grossman who then will relay the
14
message to Preston.
But we do often communicate
15 about the initiatives. Members often want to have
16 more detail about it and such.
17 CHAIRPERSON DICKENS: But
18 ultimately where do Council Members, the
19 20 21
discussion has to go.
To get--are you the final--
MS. WRIGHT:
[Interposing] No.
CHAIRPERSON DICKENS:
--are you the
22 decision-maker?
23 24
[vIS. ~]RI GHT:
No I'm not the
decision-maker.
The decision-maker Idould be, you
25 know, my boss Preston Niblack and the Speaker.
62
1
CHAIRPERSON DICKENS:
Council
COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS
2
CHAIRPERSON DICKENS:
Thank you so
3 much.
4
COUNCIL MEMBER IGNIZIO:
I was just
5 going to--
6
CHAIRPERSON DICKENS:
[Interposing]
7 Council Member Ignizio.
COUNCIL MEMBER IGNIZIO:
Yes.
8 9
Council Member Ignizio.
I was just going to say
10 in fairness, the Council Member in question lS
11 relatively new, he may not be aware of the
12 protocols on who to, who to speak to in regards to
13 budgetary items.
14 So him speaking to--this is not
15 directed to you, this is more so to the Committee,
16 him speaking to a staff member, you know, asking
17 questions or expressing some dismay in some things
18 that didn't make it is to me potentially fair and
if he didn't know the process that's fine.
It's
19
20 the emotional response and the potential physical
21
that's concerning for me.
I jus t wa n ted to ...
22
CHAIRPERSON DICKENS:
Thank you
23 Council Member.
24
COUNCIL MEMBER IGNIZIO: All right.
25
63
1
COUNCIL MEMBER PALMA:
Thank you.
COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS
2 Member Palma?
3
4 Thank you Madam Chair. Ms. Wright do you remember
5 when you sat with Council Member Rodriguez to
6 discuss the DOVE initiative if it was before or
7 after he had his interaction with
8
MS. WRIGHT:
I'm not sure but I'm
9 going to say that it had to have been after
10 because when I left the room that's when I saw my
11 boss Andy Grossman and Regina Ryan, you know, and
12
Regina had said to me someone's crying.
So it
13 must have been before.
14
COUNCIL MEMBER PALMA:
Okay thank
15 you, no further questions.
16
CHAIRPERSON DICKENS: Would you
17 speak into the mic?
18
MR. JOSHUA:
Sorry, you said, the
19 last thing you said is that it must have been
20 before the incident?
21
MS. WRIGHT:
I believe so because
22 again I was meeting with Council Member Jackson
23 first.
24
MR. JOSHUA:
Uh-huh.
25
MS. WRIGHT: And we discussed all
64
1
then I have a follow-up question.
If the
COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS
2 the items Council Member Jackson, gave his
3 approval and I was exiting or ready to leave the
4 room and Council Member Jackson called me back and
5 said Council Member Rodriguez is there, you can
6
discuss these three items with him.
So I'm
7 thinking during the time that I was talking to
8 Council Member Jackson, this must have taken
9 place.
10
MR. JOSHUA:
so you think your
11 conversation with Council Member Rodriguez
12 happened after the alleged incident which--
13
MS. WRIGHT:
[Interposing] Yes,
14 after.
15
MR. JOSHUA:
--happened.
Thank
16 you.
17
COUNCIL MEMBER PALMA: And, I'm
18 sorry, and your conversation with Council Member
19 Rodriguez took place in the Red Room.
20
MS. WRIGHT:
In the Red Room.
21
COUNCIL MEMBER PALMA: Thank you.
22
CHAIRPERSON DICKENS: Council
23 Member Ignizio.
24
COUNCIL MEMBER IGNIZIO:
I'm sorry,
, r; L J
65
1
little hurried.
But I was more focused--he was a
COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS
2 conversation took place after, how would you
3 describe Mr. Rodriguez' demeanor, potentially
4 after the, whatever you would call it,
5 conversation and potential incident with l1li
6 ~
7
MS. WRIGHT:
I'm sorry, repeat the
8 question, I think I understand but.
9
COUNCIL MEMBER IGNIZIO:
Sure.
I
10 mean you're saying, your testimony you just said
11 your conversation with Council Member Rodriguez
12 occurred after the potential incident with ....
13 _
14 How would you then describe his
15 demeanor? Was he leaving that, you know, if the
16 testimony is that he was an emotional response,
17 whatever, did he carry that with him to your
18
conversation?
Did you notice any angst, emotion,
19 anger, whatever, we're here discussing, carried
20 out, you know, if you have--if I'm arguing with
21 Jimmy when I turn to go to him, even though I may
22 not mean to carry it with you, you carry that
23
emotion with you.
Did you see any of that?
24
ns . WRI c:;HT :
Again, he seemed a
25
66
1
enough.
Thank you very much.
COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS
2 little hurried and maybe a little frustrated but
3 I'm thinking in hindsight after finding out what
4 the incident was that maybe that was partially the
5 reason but again this was my first time
6
interacting with him.
So I was just, you know, In
7 a rush myself to go--not in a rush but going over
8 the initiatives to go up to the Brooklyn
9 delegation.
10
COUNCIL MEMBER IGNIZIO:
So not to
11 put words in your mouth, seemingly you came and
12 whatever questions he had you were going to answer
13
and you were going on your way.
So if he was
14 emotional or not, there was something--
15
MS. WRIGHT:
[Interposing] I was
16 really unable to tell.
COUNCIL MEMBER IGNIZIO:
Okay, fair
17 18
19 CHAIRPERSON DICKENS: Are there any
20 other questions from the Committee? All right,
21 seeing none, thank you so much Ms. Wright for
22
coming in this morning.
I want to just remind
23 you, you should not have any discussion with the
24 press, other Council Members, Council Member
5 Rodriguez and/or his attorney or anyone else here
67
1
COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS
2 at the Council other than the Committee attorneys.
3 4 5 6 7 8
MS. WRIGHT: Yes. CHAIRPERSON DICKENS:
Thank you.
MS. WRIGHT:
Thank you.
[Pause]
CHAIRPERSON DICKENS: Witness
Danielle Porcaro.
Good morning.
Thank you Ms.
9 Porcaro, would you please give your name, your
10 11 12 13 14 15 16
title and how long you've been employed at the Council?
MS. DANIELLE PORCARO:
[Off mic]
Danielle Porcaro, Community Liaison for over six years.
CHAIRPERSON DICKENS:
Thank you for
meeting with us this morning.
You've previously
17 met with Council Members Palma, Oddo and myself
18 concerning and investigation into an allegation of
19 an incident between Council Member Rodriguez and
20 The Committee on Standards and
21 Ethics is holding a hearing today to investigate
22 s allegation further.
23 If you have a prepared statement
24
you may read it into the record.
Do you have such
25 a statement?
68
1 2 3
about the alleged incident.
He may interrupt you
COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS
MS. PORCARO:
[Off mic] No.
CHAIRPERSON DICKENS: After such
4 statement, Committee Counsel, Nadir Joshua may ask
5 you questions to gather additional information
6
7 if he needs clarification about any of your
8 answers.
9 This is to ensure that the
10 Committee has a full and clear picture of what
11
occurred.
You should let Mr. Joshua know that if
12 you do not understand any question that is asked
13 and of course you are free to stop at any point if
14 you would like to take a break.
15
After Mr. Joshua's questions,
16 Committee members may ask you additional follow-up
17 18
questions.
This hearing is being taped and will
be transcribed.
This investigation is pursuant to
19 Council policy.
20 You are asked to answer truthfully
21
all questions asked of you.
If it is determined
22 that you have been untruthful in your appearance
23 before the Committee, you may be subject to
24::iisciplinary action up to and includinq
5 termination.
69
1
COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS
2 In addition, when you previously
3 met with Council Members Palma, Oddo and myself,
4 you were asked not to share the contents of this
5 incident or the Committee's investigations with
6 any press, any Council Members and/or anyone else
7
employed at the Council.
This prohibition remains
8 in effect. Are you--
9 10 11
[Off mic]
MS. PORCARO: [Interposing] I understand.
CHAIRPERSON DICKENS:
--prepared to
12 answer questions? Thank you.
13 14 15
MR. JOSHUA: Hi Danielle. MS. PORCARO: [Off mic] Hi.
MR. JOSHUA: You said that you're a
16 Community Liaison at the Council and you've been
17 18 19 20 21
in that position for six years. other positions at the Council?
Have you held any
MS. PORCARO:
[ 0 f f m i c ] lj'J e 11 I
started off six years ago in the Speaker's--the Council Member Quinn's District Office, her
22 scheduler. And then when she became Speaker I
23 became Community Liaison.
24
MR. JOSHUA: And in
ur position
25 do you have any regular contact with Council
70
1
COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS
2 Member Rodriguez?
3 4
MS. PORCARO: [Off mic] No.
MR. JOSHUA: In your position do
5 you have any regular contact with
6 7 8
MS. PORCARO: [Off mic] Yes. MR. JOSHUA: What kind?
MS. PORCARO: [Off mic] I am the
9 Speaker's Arts Liaison so she just works for
10 Finance so we work closely during the budget and
11 not during budget times on
12
MR. JOSHUA:
I'm not sure that your
13 mic is on, you're loud enough but I'm not sure
14 that your mic is on, would you just press the
15 back, up a little I think. Yeah, it's--yeah,
16 there you go.
17 18 19 20
MS. PORCARO: Hello. Oh there you
go.
MR. JOSHUA: Thank you.
MS. PORCARO:
[Laughing] I'm just
21 very loud.
22
t1R. JOSHUA: So you work VIi th _
23 IIIIIIpretty regularly.
24
25
MS. PORCARO: Yes.
MR. JOSHUA: And how long have you
71
1
COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS
2 worked with her?
3 MS. PORCARO: I think around two
4 years she started her, doing in
5 6
Finance.
I think it was about two years ago.
MR. JOSHUA: Okay.
7 identified you as a person she spoke with about
8 the alleged incident with Council Member
9 Rodriguez. I'm just going to ask you some
10 questions about that.
11 12
MS. PORCARO: Sure.
MR. JOSHUA: When did you first
13 learn of the alleged incident?
14
MS. PORCARO:
I was on the Finance
15 Division floor that day, later in the afternoon
16 and another colleague Pakhi told me of the
17 incident.
18
MR. JOSHUA: What is Pakhi's last
19 name?
20
MS. PORCARO: What is her last
21 name ... Pakhi. What's her last name?
22
MR. JOSHUA: Sengupta?
t1S. PORCP.,RO: Sengupta, yeah.
t1R. JOSHUA: So--
MS. PORCi\RO: [ Ln t e r po s i nq ] Sorry 23
24
25
72
1
So Pakhi
COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS
2 Pakhi.
3
MR. JOSHUA:
--what did Ms.
4 Sengupta tell you?
5 MS. PORCARO: She just said that a
6 Council Member got close to he was
7 screaming in her face and pointing at her.
MR. JOSHUA: She said?
MS. PORCARO: Council Member
8 9 10
Rodriguez got--was yelling at ••••
11 knows that and I are close so I asked--I
12 don't know, I think I asked Pakhi how'_' s
13 doing, whatever, in this budget process and she
14 said oh she got yelled at today and a Council
15 Member Rodriguez was pointing at her, over an
16 incident of funding or something.
17
MR. JOSHUA: And where did that
18 conversation--that conversation took place in the
19 Finance Division.
20 21
MS. PORCARO: Correct.
MR. JOSHUA: And you were there
22 talking to Pakhi generally?
23
MS. PORCARO:
Yeah, just chit-
24 chattinq.
25
t1R. JOSHUA:
And Pakhi initiated
73
1
MR. JOSHUA: --to your question,
COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS
2 the conversation--initiated the information--
3
MS. PORCARO:
[ Interposing]
4 Correct, correct.
MR. JOSHUA: Sharing what happened
5 6 7 8 9
with--
MS. PORCARO: [Interposing]
Correct.
MR. JOSHUA: --Council Member
10 Rodriguez, what had allegedly happened. When did
you speak to about the incident?
11 12
MS. PORCARO:
Later that day I saw
13 her on my way out of 250 Broadway and I said oh I
14 heard what happened are you okay, what's going on.
15 And that sort of--and she just said that she had,
16 you know, I said did you tell anyone what happened
17 so she said she told the Speaker and I was like
18 great and, you know, gave her a hug and said have
19 a--basically have a great weekend. And it was a
20 Friday I believe and so.
21
MR. JOSHUA: Okay I just want to
22 return, I'm sorry--
t1S. PORCARO:
[Interposing] Ye a h .
23 24
25 your conversation with Pakhi.
74
1 2 3
COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS
MS. PORCARO: Yeah.
MR. JOSHUA: So Pakhi told you that
4 the Council Member allegedly yelled at and poked
5 or pointed--
6 7 8 9
10
11 horrible. How could that happen? That sort of
12 deal, is she okay. What's going on?
MS. PORCARO: [Interposing]
Pointed, poked.
MR. JOSHUA: --at How
did you respond to that?
MS. PORCARO: Oh my god. That's 13
MR. JOSHUA: And in between the
14 time where you spoke with Ms. Sengupta and you
15
spoke with
did you speak to anyone else
16 about the incident?
17
MS. PORCARO: No.
I mean it was a
18 short period of time between that, yeah.
19 20 21
MR. JOSHUA: So when you met with •••• wha t exactly did she tell you?
tvlS. PORCARO:
I said oh I heard
22 what happened. You know, she said, yeah, you
23
know, he yelled in my face.
I--she said he poked
24 right here, in that area, at her ...
25
tvlR. JOSHUA: Could you just
75
1
MS. PORCARO: And I think that was,
COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS
2 describe that? So we could--
3 4
MS. PORCARO: [Interposing] Like-MR. JOSHUA: --demonstrate it on
S the record--
6 7
MS. PORCARO: --poked--yeah.
MR. JOSHUA: --so the record should
8 indicate that Ms. Porcaro is poking in an area
9 between her throat and upper chest.
10
11 you know, she was kind of just, you know, I think
12 was just tired from the budget and everything and
13 she was just kind of, you know, we didn't talk too
14 long, I just gave her a hug and said, you know, I
lS hope you don't have to work a lot this weekend.
16 That was it.
17 We didn't talk about it too long.
18 It was more of just like a I can't believe it
19 happened, are you okay. And she did say that she
20
told the Speaker.
Because I said did you tell
21 someone what's going on and she said I told the
22 Speaker. And that was it--
23
tv18.. JOSHUA:
[Interposing] So who
24 initiated the conversation?
25
r1S. PORCARO:
With •
I:ii d .
76
10
11
1
MR. JOSHUA: And so then you had a
COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS
2 I said I heard what happened.
3
MR. JOSHUA: And where was the
4 conver--where did the conversation--
5
MS. PORCARO:
[Interposing] In
6 front of 250 Broadway.
7
MR. JOSHUA: And you said I heard
8 what happened and then did she describe what
9 happened?
MS. PORCARO: Yeah.
MR. JOSHUA: And what exactly did
12 she tell you.
13
MS. PORCARO: That's when she said
14 oh he yelled at me and he was pointing right here.
15 And got close to her and whatnot.
16
MR. JOSHUA: And you responded
17 that? What exactly?
18
MS. PORCARO: Oh my god are you
19 okay--
20
21
23
MR. JOSHUA: [Interposing] Okay.
MS. PORCARO: --I can't believe
that happened.
It's horrible.
24 conversation that entailed what? I just want to
25 know, so to the best of your recollection what
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1
COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS
2 exactly was said between the two of you.
MS. PORCARO:
It's kind of hard to
3 4
remember.
I mean I think it was just like
5 surprise, you know, she just kind of being like
6
done with the budget.
It was like towards the
7 end. And then I think the rest of the
8 conversation entailed about are you working this
9 weekend, you know, I hope you can get out--it was
10 a Friday at like 7:00 o'clock, I think or 6:00
11 12 13 14 15 16
o'clock or so, so I was like oh I hope you can
leave soon.
I think the conversation just went
to budget talk.
Yeah.
MR. JOSHOA: And then how did the
conversation end?
MS. PORCARO:
Just, you know, I
17 think I gave her a hug or whatever and, you know,
18 said have a good weekend.
19 20
MR. JOSHOA: And In that
••• told you that she'd already
conversation
21 reported the incident to the Speaker.
22
MS. PORCARO:
IVlR. JOS HOA:
Correct.
23
Okay.
Did she tell
4 you anything else?
25
MS. PORCARO:
No but then she
78
on
1
COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS
2 called me on Monday and told me that it was being
3 reported to the General Counsel's Office so to not
4 speak about it, which I hadn't at that point.
5
MR. JOSHUA:
So can you describe
6 's demeanor when she told you about the
7 incident?
8 MS. PORCARO: She's a pretty kind
9 of calm demeanored, you know, she doesn't really
10 get loud or agitated. And it was sort of just
11 kind of like kind of tired and this is what
12
happened.
It wasn't anger.
It was just sort of
13 like this happened to me kind of complacent, you
14
know, nothing--she wasn't angry.
She was just
15 kind of calm if I remember correctly.
16
MR. JOSHUA: Was anyone with you
17 when you spoke to
18
MS. PORCARO:
There were people
19 around but the conversation was just between the
20 two of us.
21
23
24
MR. JOSHUA: And so who was around?
MS. PORCARO:
It's hard to
remember.
I believe there was--I was--I believe I
was
ing out for dinner with some colleagues.
25 I believe it was, shou d I say names?
79
So
1
MR. JOSHUA:
So have you had any
COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS
2 3
MR. JOSHUA: Yes.
MS. PORCARO: Danielle Castaldi-
4 Micca who's one of my colleagues in outreach, Kate
5 Seely Kirk who works in the Speaker's District
6 Office, I believe was there. Maybe Brian Footer
7 who works the Speaker's scheduling, scheduler.
8 Again they were like--it was kind
9 of like a bunch of people waiting to get to the
10 subway and she happened to walk up and we had like
11
an aside.
So they were there but I don't know if-
12 -I don't believe they--I mean they didn't--I don't
13 believe they heard our conversation.
MR. JOSHUA: And did you talk to any of them about the incident?
14 15 16
MS. PORCARO: No.
I mean since
17 then people have been talking about it but no, not
then, no.
No.
18 19
MR. JOSHUA:
Since then people have
20 been talking to you about it?
21
MS. PORCi\RO:
Not to me
22 specifically but generally speaking, you know,
23 it's been a topic of conversation like what's
24 going on, what happened, what--you know.
25
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1
MS. PORCARO: No.
MR. JOSHUA: Any Council Members? MS. PORCARO: No.
MR. JOSHUA: Council employees? MS. PORCARO: Well I had it--I was
COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS
2 conversations with anyone at the Council about it?
3 4 5 6 7
8 supposed to staff the Speaker today and I had to
9 tell someone I couldn't and loosely explained why
10 and they cut me off and I told Casey the
11 12 13
scheduler--
MR. JOSHUA:
[Interposing] Right.
MS. PORCARO: --I told him I
14 couldn't staff her and I said I have to be here
15 for a hearing and he was like uh, and then he just
16 stopped me so.
17
MR. JOSHUA: Okay. And aside from
18 that conversation have you spoken to any--
19 20
21
22
MS. PORCARO: [Interposing] No. MR. JOSHUA: --any other--
MS. PORCARO: [Interposing] No.
MR. JOSHUA: --staff members.
So
23 where were you when the alleged incident happened?
24 [Pause]
2 5
MR. JOSHUA:
If you know.
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COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS
MS. PORCARO:
I can check my
schedule but I'm sure just at 250 Broadway.
I was
4 not at City Hall that day.
5 6 7 8 9
10 11 12 13
MR. JOSHUA: So you did not
witness--
MS. PORCARO:
MR. JOSHUA:
MS. PORCARO:
MR. JOSHUA:
you since spoken to
MS. PORCARO: [Interposing] No---the alleged--
--no.
--incident. And have about the incident? No.
MR. JOSHUA: So other than the
14 conversation on--there was a conversation you said
15 that she had with you on Monday about--
16
MS. PORCARO:
[ Interposing]
17 Telling--yes, saying that it's been at the General
18 Counsel and then we have not talked about that
19 since.
20
MR. JOSHUA: And in that
21 conversation she told you that you were not to
22 speak to anyone else.
23
24
25
MS. PORCARO: Correct.
MR. JOSHUA: Okay.
Thank you.
CHAIRPERSON DICKENS: Council
82
1
MS. PORCARO:
[Interposing] Oh
COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS
2 Member Ignizio.
COUNCIL MEMBER IGNIZIO:
Hi Ms.
3 4 5
Porcaro.
How would you describe the word--how
would you describe from her words .e ••••• ' s
6 words to you regarding the touch? What word did
7 she use to describe what allegedly occurred?
8
MS. PORCARO:
I don't remember the
9 words really as much as she was just saying that
10 he got close to her--I guess he said, you know,
11 got close in her face and yelled at her and then
12 poked in this general region.
13
COUNCIL MEMBER IGNIZIO: And that
14 was Ms.--because from my perspective your
15 conversation with Pakhi is not germane at all.
16 I'm only concerned--
17
18 right.
19
COUNCIL MEMBER IGNIZIO:
--about
20
your conversation with
Did she
21 describe a poke or did she use any word like yell
22 or poke or what descriptive words did she use
23 before--
24
JV1S. PORCAFO:
[ Inte
s i riq ] It's
25
hard to--I'm sorry.
I'm having a hard time
83
1 2
remembering.
I might have--in like I might have
COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS
3 said to her--
4 [Crosstalk]
5 COUNCIL MEMBER IGNIZIO:
6 [Interposing] If you don't--if you don't remember
7 don't say it--
8
MS. PORCARO: --I don't remember.
9 I don't remember. Yeah--
10
11 saying--
12
13
14
IS
COUNCIL MEMBER IGNIZIO: --I'm just
MS. PORCARO: --I don't remember. COUNCIL MEMBER IGNIZIO: Okay.
MS. PORCARO:
- - was saying that.
COUNCIL MEMBER IGNIZIO:
Fair
16 enough. And historically in your years in the
17 Council, how long have you been with the Council?
18
MS. PORCARO: A little over six
19 years.
20
COUNCIL MEMBER IGNIZIO: Have you
21 heard of or been involved in any situations where
22 Council Members either yelled or poked or
23 potentially inappropriately touched a staff
24 member?
2 5
MS. PORCARO: No.
84
1 2
COUNCIL MEMBER IGNIZIO: Okay.
COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS
3 Thank you very much. No further questions.
4 CHAIRPERSON DICKENS: Council
5 Member Palma?
6
COUNCIL MEMBER PALMA:
I don't have
7 any questions at this time. Nadir asked his last
8 two questions were the ones that I wanted to ask.
9 Thank you.
10 CHAIRPERSON DICKENS: Does the
11 Committee have any other questions? Then thank
12 you.
13 14 15
MS. PORCARO: Thank you. [Pause]
CHAIRPERSON DICKENS: Mr. Joshua,
16 will Ms. Pakhi Sengupta.
17 MR. JOSHUA: She'll be coming in.
18 Yeah she's here.
19
CHAIRPERSON DICKENS: Yeah, come on
20 in. Good morning. Would you please (jive us your ...
21 see how to turn on the mic?
22
fiR. .JOSHUA:
It's in the back.
23
MS. PAKHI SENGUPTA: Hello? CHAIRPERSON DICKENS: Would you
24
25 please give us your full name, your title and how
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1
COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS
2 long you've been with the Council?
3 4
MS. SENGUPTA:
Pakhi Sengupta,
Senior Legislative Financial Analyst.
I've been
5 here since April 2007.
6 7 8
CHAIRPERSON DICKENS: April 2007?
MS. SENGUPTA:
Yeah.
CHAIRPERSON DICKENS:
Thank you for
9 meeting with us today. You previously met with
10 Council Member Palma, Council Member Oddo and
11 myself concerning an investigation into an
12 allegation of an incident between Council Member
13
Rodriguez and
The Committee on
14 Standards and Ethics is holding a hearing today to
15 16 17
investigate ••••••
allegation further.
If you have a prepared statement
you may read it into the record.
After such
18 statement, Committee Counsel Nadir Joshua may ask
19 you questions to gather additional information
20
about the alleged incident.
You may--he may
21 interrupt you if he needs clarification about any
22 of your answers.
23 This is to ensure that the
24 Committee has a full and clear picture of what
25
happened.
You should let Mr. Joshua know if you
86
1
pursuant to Council policy.
You are asked to
COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS
2 do not understand any of the questions he has
3 asked and of course you are free to stop at any
4 point if you would like a break. After Mr.
5 Joshua's questions, Committee members may ask you
6 additional follow up questions.
7 This hearing is being taped and
will be transcribed.
This investigation is
8 9
10 answer truthfully all questions asked of you. If
11 it is determined that you have been untruthful in
12 your appearance before the Committee, you may be
13 subject to disciplinary action up to and including
14 termination.
15 In addition, when you previously
16 met with Council Members Palma, Oddo and myself,
17 you were asked not to share the contents of this
18 incident or the Committee's investigations with
19 any press, any Council Members, or anyone employed
20
at the Council.
That prohibition remains in
21
effect.
Do you have a statement?
22 23
PAKHI SENGUPTA:
I do not.
CHAIRPERSON DICKENS: Mr. Joshua,
24 please?
25
NADIR JOSHUA:
Hi, Ms. Sengupta.
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1
COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS
2 You said that you've been with the Council Slnce
3 April 2007. Have you held any other positions at
4 the Council?
5 6 7 8 9
10 11 12
PAKHI SENGUPTA: No.
NADIR JOSHUA: In your position, do
you have any regular contact with Council Member
Rodriguez?'
PAKHI SENGUPTA: Sometimes, yes.
NADIR JOSHUA: Can you describe
what kind of contact you have with him? PAKHI SENGUPTA:
I staff the budget
13 negotiating team. So any matters regarding the
14 budget, if there are issues that come up that he's
15 involved with. But I've had pretty limited
16 interaction with him.
17
NADIR JOSHUA: And how would you
18 describe those interactions?
19
PAKHI SENGUPTA:
Fine, perfectly
20 normal, professional.
21
22 up?
23
24
NADIR JOSHUA: Can you just speak
PAKHI SENGUPTA: Yes.
Sorry.
NADI R ,JOSHUl,,:
In any of those
25 interactions, has he ever been agitated towards
88
10 11 12
1
PAKHI SENGUPTA: She's my colleague
COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS
2 you?
3
4
PAKHI SENGUPTA: No.
NADIR JOSHUA: Generally, how would
5 you describe his demeanor?
6
PAKHI SENGUPTA:
Fine,
7 professional.
8
NADIR JOSHUA: Professional, okay.
9 In your position, do you have regular contact with
PAKHI SENGUPTA: Yes.
NADIR JOSHUA: What kind of contact
13 do you have with her?
14
15 in the Finance Division. We collaborate, as all
16 Finance staff do, to provide information for the
17 budge negotiating team and for members throughout
18 the year during and throughout the budget process
19 and then also for other budgetary needs that come
20 up throughout the year.
21
NADIR JOSHUA: So you work with her
22 on a daily basis?
23
PAKHI SENGUPT,/\:
I mean she
Yes.
24 s e r v e s on .t i f f e r en t ommittees than 1.::10.
25
NADIR JOSHUA: Right.
89
1
remember.
I mean I know that it was
ring the
COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS
2
PAKHI SENGUPTA: But the
3 responsibilities that we all have within the
4 division, I mean, she and I share and collaborate
5 on those things.
6
NADIR JOSHUA: Would you describe
7 your relationship as just colleagues or also
8 friends outside of work?
9
PAKHI SENGUPTA: Both colleague and
10 friend.
11
NADIR JOSHUA: Okay. So
12 identified you as a person that she spoke with
13 about the alleged incident with Council Member
14
Rodriguez.
I'm just going to ask you some
15 questions about that.
16
17
PAKHI SENGUPTA: Sure.
NADIR JOSHUA: When did you first
18 learn of the alleged incident?
19
PAKHI SENGUPTA: About half an hour
20 after it happened. About 20 minutes to half an
21 hour after it happened.
22
NADIR JOSHUA: Can you just say for
23 the record when that was?
24
PAKHI SENGUPTA:
I honestly don't
90
1
2
COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS
day.
I really don't remember.
I know we had been
3 here for so many hours at that point that I
4
5
honestly don't remember.
But it was midday.
NADIR JOSHUA: Okay.
Then we'll
6 just stipulate for the record that it was Friday,
7
8
June 25th.
How did you learn of the incident?
PAKHI SENGUPTA:
How did I learn of
9 the incident?
10
11
NADIR JOSHUA: Yes.
PAKHI SENGUPTA: She told me.
12 _ told me.
13
14
NADIR JOSHUA: _ told you.
What did •••••• say when she told you about the
15 incident?
16
17
PAKHI SENGUPTA:
She came to me,
she was very upset.
I was actually speaking about
18 a different incident with another coworker who I
19
20
was frustrated with.
She seemed really agitated.
I asked her what was wrong.
She started to cry.
21 She said that there was an issue with Council
22
Member Rodriguez.
Basically she said that she was
23 pulled aside by him and was asked very harshly and
24 rudely why he wasn't told of a cut to I believe
the Dorn i n ic a n a
Puerto Rican Studies Institute
91
1
NADIR JOSHUA: And when she
COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS
2 within the budget since some decisions were made
3
as to certain cuts.
So she said that he was very
4 angry and that he was very uncomfortably close to
5
her, close to her face.
And took his forefinger
6 and put it on her, at the upper part of her chest,
7
close to her neck and pressed down.
She said that
8 she felt intimidated and very, very uncomfortable.
9 It was at that point I told her that she really
10 does need to tell someone.
11
NADIR JOSHUA:
So when she
12 described the incident to you, she said that he
13 used his forefinger and pressed down?
14
PAKHI SENGUPTA: Yes.
15
NADIR JOSHUA: Just for the record,
16 are you paraphrasing, or is that her exact
17 description?
18
PAKHI SENGUPTA:
I'm paraphrasing.
19 I don't know exactly what she said, but it was
20 that.
21
NADIR JOSHUA:
Did she demonstrate
22 it for you or did she just tell you?
Yes, she did.
She
23
PAKHI SENGUPTA:
24 demonstrated it on me.
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1
COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS
2 demonstrated, she just used one finger?
3
PAKHI SENGUPTA: She used one
4 finger and pressed down on my chest close to my
5 neck, like so.
6
NADIR JOSHUA: Just for the record,
7 Ms. Sengupta is pressing down on her chest close
8 to her neck, and she only used one finger. You
was upset and agitated when she
9
said that
10 was telling you the story.
11
PAKHI SENGUPTA: And crying.
12 NADIR JOSHUA: And crying. So this
13 conversation took place where exactly?
14
PAKHI SENGUPTA: At my cubicle on
15 the 15th Floor.
16 17 18
NADIR JOSHUA: At 250 Broadway? PAKHI SENGUPTA: Yes. At 250
Broadway.
19 NADIR JOSHUA: Did you initiate the
20 conversation or did she initiate the conversation?
21
22
PAKHI SENGUPTA:
I believe she came
by.
I was talking and then she initiated the
23 conversation about this inci nt.
24
25
NADIR JOSHUA: Did you have any
further--I'm sorry.
You responded that
93
1
[Pause]
COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS
2 should report the incident to someone?
PAKHI SENGUPTA: Yeah.
NADIR JOSHUA: Why did you say
3 4
5 tha t?
6
PAKHI SENGUPTA: Because she was
7 clearly agitated and if what he did was true, it's
8 extremely and unbelievably inappropriate and
9 unprofessional.
10
NADIR JOSHUA: I'm sorry, I'm just
11 going to pause for one second.
PAKHI SENGUPTA: Sure.
NADIR JOSHUA: Do we need to stop
12 13 14 15
the tape?
16 NADIR JOSHUA: Did you have any
17 other communication with about the
18 incident?
19
COUNCIL MEMBER KOSLOWITZ: There's
20 music playing.
21
22
23
MALE VOICE: Excuse me, I'm sorry? COUNCIL MEMBER KOSLOWITZ: Music. MALE VOICE: Somebody has it
24 p La y i n q ,
25
Ni\DIR ,JOSHUA:
I think maybe that's
94
1 2 3
CHAIRPERSON DICKENS:
Thank you.
COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS
been resolved.
I don't hear it anymore.
4 I'm sorry.
5 NADIR JOSHUA: I'm sorry.
6 PAKHI SENGUPTA: That's okay.
7 NADIR JOSHUA: Did you have any
8 further communication with about the
9 incident?
10
PAKHI SENGUPTA:
Yes.
She said
11 that she reported to the general counsel's office
12
or the Standards and Ethics Committee.
I don't
13 which is the appropriate.
14
NADIR JOSHUA: When did this second
IS conversation take place?
16
PAKHI SENGUPTA: Again, I really
17 don't remember exactly, but it was that day maybe
18
about an hour or two hours later.
I believe it
19 was probably an hour.
20
NADIR JOSHUA: Where did that
21 conversation take place?
22 23
PAKHI SENGUPTA:
The same place, at She came to me and
my cubicle on the 15th Floor.
24
she said I reported this.
We can't have any other
25
conversations about this.
Please don't tell
95
1
COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS
2 anyone else. That since it's being investigated
3 don't talk to anyone about it. But she did me and
4 I said good.
5 6
NADIR JOSHUA: You said that you
should report the
responded that
7 incident. Did you respond in any other way when
8 -'told you about it?
9 10 11
12 else to ••••
13
PAKHI SENGUPTA:
I was really
angry.
I'm not sure what you mean.
NADIR JOSHUA: Did you say anything
PAKHI SENGUPTA: Yeah, I mean I may
14 have said some things out of anger just about the-
15 16 17 18 19 20 21
NADIR JOSHUA: [interposing] The
incident?
PAKHI SENGUPTA: The incident,
yeah.
NADIR JOSHUA: Okay. Was anyone
around when you spoke with
PAKHI SENGUPTA: No. I'm sorry, 22 there may have been people on the floor. There
23 wasn't anyone around my cubicle.
24
NADIR JOSHUA: So now one else
25 participated in the conversation?
96
1
PAKHI SENGUPTA: Yes.
NADIR JOSHUA: With whom? PAKHI SENGUPTA: I spoke with
COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS
2 3
PAKHI SENGUPTA: No.
NADIR JOSHUA: Did you talk to
4 anyone at the Council about the alleged incident?
5 6 7
8 Danielle Porcaro and Kate Celikirk [phonetic] who
9 came by literally minutes after I had the
10 conversation with her. She had not reported the
11 incident as of yet. All of this happened in
12 probably a span of ten minutes. But I was livid.
13 I was really angry and upset and they just
14 happened to come by and see me and ask what was
IS wrong and I told them.
16 NADIR JOSHUA: And you spoke with
17 both Ms. Porcaro and Ms. Celikirk?
18 PAKHI SENGUPTA: Yes.
19
NADIR JOSHUA: What did you say to
20 them?
21
PAKHI SENGUPTA: Exactly what I
22 just said to you as far as what happened to
23 r I said that _ was really upset and
24
that she had been crying.
I just said that,
u
25 know, we've been working for hours and hours and
97
1
COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS
2 hours and we're all just exhausted and we're
3 trying to do the best that we can. And this is
4 really inappropriate and appalling.
6 respond?
7
5
NADIR JOSHUA:
How did they
PAKHI SENGUPTA:
They were angry,
8 disgusted and, you know, just kind of shared my
9 view, I guess.
10
NADIR JOSHUA:
So do you know where
11 you were when the alleged incident occurred?
12
PAKHI SENGUPTA:
I don't know,
13 because I don't know what time it happened, but I
14 was either at City Hall in another part of City
15 16 17
Hall or I was on the 15th Floor.
There's only two
places I could have been.
But I don't know where
I was.
The other thing that we also discussed was
18 that the matter could have been brought up to
19 absolutely anyone, including and up to the Speaker
20 as far as if Council Member Rodriguez had an issue
21
22 23 24
with not being told about a cut.
He could have
spoken to other members.
He could have spoken to
the Speaker.
He could have spoken to Ramon
Martinez, Chuck Meara, anyone.
So part of what we
2S discussed when we talked about it was we didn't
98
1
COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS AND ETHICS
2 understand why it was taken out on a staff member
3 who has the least amount of power in making
4 decisions about what cuts are corning down the
5 pike, or how to tell members as to what cuts are
6 corning down the pike.
7
NADIR JOSHUA:
So, have you spoken
8 to anyone else at the Council about the alleged
9 incident?
10 11
PAKHI SENGUPTA: No . .......,
NADIR JOSHUA: To 3 • right.
12 Have you spoken to the Council Member about the
13 alleged incident?
14 15 16 17
PAKHI SENGUPTA: No.
NADIR JOSHUA: Okay, that's all. PAKHI SENGUPTA: Okay, thank you.
CHAIRPERSON DICKENS:
Thank you.
18 The conversations that you described with_
19 and I believe you said Danielle Porcaro, these
20 occurred prior to your having met with committee
21 members, where we asked that you not--
22
P}\KHI SENGUPTA:
[ interposing]
23
Right. And it was prior to
even filing a
24
I mean, this happened in the span of
report.
25 f i v e , ten minutes.
99