Professional Documents
Culture Documents
Transcript of Summary Judgement Hearing
Transcript of Summary Judgement Hearing
120106GoldenDawn
Volume I
Pages 1 - 65
APPEARANCES:
For Plaintiff: Law Offices of Harris Zimmerman
1330 Broadway, Suite 710
Oakland, California 94612
BY: MICHAEL JAMES CRONEN, ESQ.
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3 THE CLERK: Calling Case C-05-00432, the Hermetic
4 Order of the Golden Dawn versus David Griffin. Counsel, please
5 step forward and state your appearances.
6 MR. CRONEN: Good morning, Your Honor, Mike Cronen for
7 Plaintiffs, Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn, Inc. And Mr. Sam
8 Webster is our client representative.
9 THE COURT: Good morning.
10 MR. HEVIA: Good morning, Your Honor. Jorge Hevia
11 representing Mr. Griffin.
12 THE COURT: And Mr. Griffin is in court?
23 MR. HEVIA: Your Honor, may I ask if the Court got our
24 statement of recent cases?
25 THE COURT: I did.
3
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8 personal time is no business of the Court's, but I want to say
9 that there is some sensitivity on the part of the Court and
10 staff to secondhand smoke. And I want to say to Defense Counsel
11 that the filings that you have sent to chambers have had an
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12 parties by Counsel, by the parties on each other. And by that I
13 mean name calling, accusing one side or the other of committing
14 crimes in this court, before this Court, or lying to this Court,
15 or otherwise characterizing the arguments or the people involved
16 in this case, either attorneys or clients.
17 The problem that this causes to the Court is that
18 dealing with that kind of behavior is time consuming, it clouds
19 the message that you and your clients are trying to bring to
20 this Court, and generally speaking, it disadvantages the clients
21 of this case and the resources of the Court.
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17 so.
18 So, here is what I'm going to do this time. I was
19 thinking about what should I do, to make, if you will, the
20 punishment fit the crime here. And what I've decided to do in
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21 associate or paralegal. And then, that should be done by next
22 Friday.
23 If -- I am not going to give you any help in terms of
24 telling you exactly what I'm thinking about, but just to give
25 you an egregious example, one side accuses the other side of
7
4 of this Court.
5 If the -- if the editing is not adequate in the
6 Court's determination, then the Court will decide what the
7 appropriate sanction is, including striking the offending
8 document. And then in the future -- and this is going to go out
9 both to the lawyers and to the clients -- any future violation
10 of this rule that I have previously set down for you, will
11 result in the Court issuing sanctions to its full authority,
12 which could include anything up to and including dismissal of
13 the case, issue preclusion, monetary sanctions, or other
25 understandable, Counsel?
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8
3 suborning perjury --
4 THE COURT: I don't want to hear that. I don't want
5 to hear that, because --
6 MR. CRONEN: I don't want to hear it either, you know.
7 It's very offensive.
8 THE COURT: What I'm saying to you is the remedy from
9 your perspective is this, to the extent -- and again, I have
10 avoided pointing fingers. But the level of work required by one
11 side or the other will be -- and the nature of the brief that is
12 submitted pursuant to this order, subject to a possible motion
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3 here. But there is no point at this point in making findings of
4 any blame, because I want to maintain my impartiality.
5 So if I don't address the specifics, Counsel, you
6 don't need to address the specifics.
7 MR. CRONEN: Your Honor, I understand. I just wanted
8 to make my point, because it's my reputation, too, that's at
9 stake.
10 THE COURT: I understand that, and that is why I'm
11 doing what I'm doing.
12 MR. CRONEN: Okay.
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8 Just use the name of your client. It makes it much
9 easier to read your briefs. And we save a lot of space that way
10 as well.
11 MR. CRONEN: "Plaintiff" and "Defendant" acceptable,
12 too?
13 THE COURT: I would rather you use the -- you use the
14 "HOGDI."
15 MR. CRONEN: Okay.
16 THE COURT: That's perfect. "David Griffin" is
17 perfect, and that way, I'll know who's what. But if you get
18 into "Defendant" --
19 MR. CRONEN: And "Counter-Claimant" --
20 THE COURT: -- then you get Defendant position or his
21 Counter-Claimant position, and it is not necessary or helpful at
22 that point.
23 All right. I want to go to the questions. And for
24 those of you who have not been in this court before,
25 presumptively, in this district, you don't get the right to
11
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12 Court thinks that it needs information -- it needs your
13 positions in order to -- in order to properly reflect the
14 parties' positions. So, I want to get, as much as possible,
15 brief, objective, responsive answers.
16 If your answer is such to the question that you
17 think, "Gee, this is adverse to my side," I am giving you the
18 opportunity at the end of each section to add anything you want,
19 if you feel you need to. But on these questions there's no
20 hidden agenda. Don't tell me that I've asked the wrong
21 question, or the question is irrelevant, or beside the point.
22 It may very well be, but these are the questions that the Court
23 had in reviewing your papers.
24 So I'm asking you -- there's a lot of questions, more
25 than I usually ask. And I really just need answers, and let the
12
1 chips fall where they may. Because they are not trick
2 questions, it's just what I need in order to flesh out my
3 thinking.
4 So, and, I also should tell you that the rules here
5 are that you don't just get to answer what was on the homework
6 assignment; there are pop quiz questions as well.
7 MR. CRONEN: Okay, sure.
8 THE COURT: So be prepared for those. Because as I
9 continue to prepare, the Court continues to prepare, additional
10 questions arise that didn't get onto the take-home, if you will.
11 So, with that in mind, let's start with Question
12 No. 1.a. and in fact, there, the preliminary question, I've
13 given you sort of a sense of what leads up to the question.
14 And I will start with the Defendant. So, Counsel?
15 MR. HEVIA: Yes, Your Honor. Defendant David John
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17 acquired a vested property interest in the U.S. mark, and that
18 opposing party never has had full control of use and ownership
19 of the H.O.G.D. mark.
20 In the first recital of the agreement, both parties
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21 right to usage in the United States of America and worldwide of
22 the granting party's respective name -- names, when used in
23 conjunction with the trademark or service mark as defined by the
24 Lanham Act Citation. Paragraph 2, Covenants: Neither party
25 shall interfere with or otherwise directly or indirectly
14
14 THE COURT: No, the Court has them. You have got
15 them, right?
16 MR. CRONEN: I'm sorry, which case are we referring
17 to?
18 THE COURT: Yeah, which case?
19 MR. HEVIA: Iskenderian v. Iskenderian, filed
20 November 17, 2006, State of California, Appellate Decision, that
21 they have jurisdiction in trademark matters also. It is not the
22 precedent, but we believe that it is very persuasive.
23 THE COURT: What is your response to 1.a.?
24 MR. CRONEN: I don't think he actually responded to
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15
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3 THE COURT: All right. Do you have anything to say on
4 that particular point?
5 MR. CRONEN: I guess this is going to get to
6 Your Honor's point, in Preliminary Question 1 and a couple of
7 other of these questions. And that is, this agreement is -- is,
8 I believe, hopelessly ambiguous.
9 I have tried mightily to make some sense of it,
10 myself, in my own office. Mr. Zimmerman and I have gone over
11 it, you know. And, I'm not sure. Judge Orrick (Phonetic) used
12 to say "If it walks like a duck and quacks, it's probably a
13 duck."
14 This does have language about usage of names; it
15 doesn't say what names. And usage of marks, I believe, it was
16 also -- that sounds like license language to me.
17 THE COURT: Why don't we go on to Question d,
18 because on what authority do you rely on to support the
19 Plaintiff's contention that it is a license or a cross-license?
20 MR. CRONEN: Essentially just the language of the
21 agreement, itself, where it says "usage of a name," and that
22 generally implies a license arrangement. Certainly not an
23 assignment --
24 THE COURT: Do you have legal authority to that
25 effect?
17
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8 were co-owners of the mark from the date that it was issued.
9 Getting back to the case that we submitted,
10 Iskenderian v. Iskenderian, the Court of Iskenderian, quoting
11 McCarthy on trademarks, states (As read), "One method of
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12 this restaurant chain with her own garlic sauce and everything
13 else.
14 And the case, the holding of the case is that the
15 person with those rights, the mother, the original rights, kept
16 them. And the outsider, the daughter-in-law, didn't. And the
17 whole notion is, in that case, the mother had transferred her
18 entire -- her entire interest in the restaurant.
19 They did not recite good will specifically being
20 transferred, but she transferred everything, the whole -- like
21 we say in the trademark business, if you -- you know, sell
22 something lock, stock and barrel, you don't need that good will
23 necessary, that -- that incantation language, as you might
24 ordinarily if you are just selling the mark.
25 So here, Vartkes had assigned her entire interest,
19
16 with him.
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17 THE COURT: All right. I want to move on to Question
18 1.c. And I'll start with Plaintiff's Counsel, because this is
19 really where the rubber meets the road.
20 We have cross motions for summary judgment. We've got
1 still in effect.
2 THE COURT: Correct.
3 MR. CRONEN: At least three. It's ambiguous. That
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21 -- there's no question of fact that the agreement is ambiguous.
22 If it is a cross-license, as has been mentioned here and
23 there -- not by us, by the way, I'm not sure exactly what this
24 is -- it extinguished upon the dissolution of the partnership.
25 And if it's a settlement agreement, as Mr. Hevia seems
21
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22
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3 may have without express permission of H.O.G.D.I.?
4 MR. CRONEN: I'm sorry, I'm not -- I'm having trouble
5 finding a period. Oh, the "notwithstanding"?
6 THE COURT: Yes.
7 MR. CRONEN: From there. And your question, sir? I'm
8 sorry.
9 THE COURT: The question was, why does the last
10 sentence of Paragraph 2 not give the Griffin-Behman partnership
11 the right to license the Golden Dawn mark to any successors that
12 they have without express permission of your client?
23 H.O.G.D.I.?
24 MR. HEVIA: It gives them the -- it gives both parties
25 permission to license third parties so long as the landmarks of
24
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8 warrant and represent."
9 Why should Paragraph 3 of the agreement not be
10 interpreted to mean that the Griffin-Behman Partnership had
11 ownership rights in the, quote, "Hermetic Order of the Golden
12 Dawn" name?
13 MR. CRONEN: We're not sure what names and marks are
14 at issue. That's kind of one of the issues here. I don't know
15 what names and marks they're talking about. And that's kind of
16 the problem from the very beginning.
17 Remember, we have a design element in our registered
18 trademark. And they refer to a Golden Dawn mark, a Hermetic
19 Order of the Golden Dawn, and some of these other organizations
20 that are different. And it's just -- I don't know.
21 THE COURT: All right. Do you have a response to
22 that?
23 MR. HEVIA: Yes, Your Honor. We do. The plain
24 language of the agreement, again, save for acknowledging that
25 the other party claims a right therein. As to what marks are
25
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12 opposition.
13 The mark mutuality of the marks in the agreement was
14 the OHIM E.U. "Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn," and the U.S.
15 "The Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn."
16 THE COURT: Response?
17 MR. CRONEN: One other point, I think, coming back to
18 what you had asked about, in the last sentence of Paragraph 2,
19 it said "Both parties shall have the right to license and/or
20 warrant other temples without interference or permission of the
21 other party, provided the temples adhere to the landmarks of the
22 original order."
23 But again, it says "license or warrant," and we don't
24 know license what, or warrant what.
25 THE COURT: We have covered that point.
26
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17 not. The partnership, apart from its other activities of
18 operating the Confederatio, licensing several temples,
19 lecturing, publishing various materials and the web site, --
20 THE COURT: Slow down, please.
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21 THE COURT: What is your position on that?
22 MR. HEVIA: We acquired a property interest, or were,
23 alternatively, co-owners in the mark when it was issued. At the
24 time the partnership was owned by David John Griffin and
25 Patricia Behman, they acquired a property interest.
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29
3 No. 2.
4 And it is an important question, regarding considering
5 the motions that were filed on November 19 and 20th, when the
6 Defendant did not seek leave of Court to file these motion under
7 the cited local rule. What is your best argument?
8 MR. HEVIA: We could not have possibly filed those
9 motions until such point as opposing party filed a reply brief
10 which relied in part on a declaration which attempted to
11 introduce into evidence the non-renewal of one mark as evidence
12 of non-usage of another mark.
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3 upon yourself, taking self-help to file such a -- what otherwise
4 would be lay-filed motions?
5 MR. HEVIA: Your Honor is, of course, correct.
6 However, we read 7.3(d) to -- because of its further elaboration
7 on statement of recent decisions, that anything that could not
8 have been replied before would have been covered by that rule.
9 We also felt that if a motion to strike would be
10 precluded from a reply memorandum that is flawed on its face,
11 because of 7.3(d), then the opposing party could basically file
12 anything that they want, and we would be precluded from
1 at. And I'm telling you, in the future, that is not going to be
2 tolerated.
3 I don't need to hear a response from you.
4 MR. CRONEN: I just don't -- one response is that I
5 don't think they could have a good faith belief in complying
6 with the local rule, because none of the materials that they
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8 those things have existed for some time.
9 THE COURT: I don't really want to hear argument.
10 MR. CRONEN: That's fine.
11 THE COURT: They violated the rules, as far as the
6 third line of defense. We believe that our use of the mark from
7 1994 onwards has been lawful. Sleekcraft refers to unlawful
8 use.
9 Now, we do believe that our use was lawful. It has
10 been continuous since 1994. So yes, it would be barred by
11 laches.
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12 THE COURT: All right.
13 MR. HEVIA: If the Court were to find it unlawful,
14 which we do not concede and do not believe.
15 THE COURT: Response?
16 MR. CRONEN: That they don't have any position with
17 respect to Sleekcraft, because they fit right into it. They
18 copied the mark, right down to the registration notice.
19 THE COURT: Let me ask you a question now. H.O.G.D.I.
20 contends that the Golden Dawn mark is incontestable, and submits
21 the certificates attesting to that fact, which is dated April of
22 2006.
23 MR. CRONEN: Yes, sir.
24 THE COURT: When was the -- when was H.O.G.D.I.'s
25 Section 15 affidavit filed with the U.S. Patent and Trademark
33
1 Office?
2 MR. CRONEN: Approximately around that time.
3 Generally speaking, we filed those between the fifth and sixth
4 year after registration. We did not represent the corporation
5 at that point. They had filed their renewal, and had not filed
6 the incontestability certificate at that time.
7 So, we -- I believe it was -- I don't know, six months
8 before, let's say, within a --
9 THE COURT: Is there any evidence of that in the
10 record?
11 MR. CRONEN: Yeah, I don't know. I don't know if the
12 filing date was in the record or -- I may be able to discern
13 that from the notice, itself.
14 THE COURT: But you concede that the affidavit had to
15 be filed within one year of after the expiration of the
16 five-year usage?
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17 MR. CRONEN: No, the law is that you get the Section
18 15 incontestability after five years of continuous use, and you
19 can file it essentially at any time. You don't have to file
20 between the fifth and sixth years, but you may.
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21 license agreement, it went away, and if it is a license
22 agreement, it went away. Different rules applying in the
23 different situations.
24 THE COURT: Do you agree with that?
25 MR. HEVIA: No, Your Honor, we do not. Though we do
35
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36
1 did not apply. If it did apply, they would have had four years
2 from May 30th, 1998, to challenge the agreement. They did not.
24 4?
25 MR. HEVIA: We do not believe, again, that there's a
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3 Neither ourselves over them or them over us retained
4 any supervision or control for the other, but entered into the
5 agreement for the orderly use of the same, similar mark.
6 THE COURT: All right. We will take ten minutes now,
7 and then move on to Question No. 5.
8 MR. HEVIA: Your Honor, on the filings and the
9 secondary smoke?
10 THE COURT: I'm sorry?
11 MR. CRONEN: I'm sorry, Your Honor.
12 THE COURT: Yes?
1 papers.
2 So therefore, in light of what you just said, if that
3 is your final answer, then neither party -- then the Court is
4 suspending the obligation of filing chambers copies.
5 MR. HEVIA: Thank you, Your Honor. I would, if I
6 could, comply.
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8 MR. HEVIA: Sorry.
9 THE COURT: Ten minutes.
10 (Recess from 10:28 to 10:47 a.m.)
11 THE COURT: Okay, we are back on the Record, and up to
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12 THE COURT: Very brief. Tell me which points.
13 MR. HEVIA: As to the matter of the nature of the
14 agreement, and as to the transfer of good will from Behman to
15 Griffin.
16 THE COURT: Fine.
17 MR. HEVIA: On the nature of the agreement, I would
18 point out that apart from Paragraph 2, which permits both
19 parties to record a copy of the agreement with the PTO, this
20 certainly -- a proof that each party acquired a property
21 interest in the mark of the other.
5 because of the esteem that she had for him as a magician, she
6 gifted him the magical tools of the late Dr. Isreal Regardie.
7 THE COURT: All right.
8 MR. CRONEN: Your Honor, Mr. Hevia has a couple of
9 times referred to his not having seen the document related to
10 the entire good will. This, I mentioned to you earlier, was 88.
11 I don't know whether -- Your Honor, I've made copies. Here is
12 one for Mr. Hevia.
13 If I may approach the bench, just to show you -- this
14 was given to --
15 THE COURT: Well, wait. Is this in the current
16 record?
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17 MR. CRONEN: This is in the current record, yes.
18 THE COURT: What is the citation to the record?
19 MR. CRONEN: It is --
20 THE COURT: I believe I have seen this document or a
1 to Mr. Hevia.
2 MR. HEVIA: Yes, Your Honor.
3 MR. CRONEN: That was -- that was a month after -- you
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21 Griffin.
22 THE COURT: All right. Counsel?
23 MR. HEVIA: Your Honor, we submitted our recordation
24 to the USPTO on or about February 20th, 2003. Thirteen months
25 later, we did indeed receive this notice.
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43
3 there was any continuity of one -- again, I've not seen anything
4 that indicates that there was any commercial activity going on,
5 on the part of this Defendant, any time prior to about two
6 thousand and -- I forget the date, -three or -four. So, there
7 really wasn't any good will in the notion of commercial activity
8 to transfer.
9 In terms of the lock, stock and barrel that Mr. Hevia
10 has said was transferred, there's no evidence of that. We don't
11 see an adding machine or a postage machine or anything like that
12 being transferred. There was simply a naked assignment of
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3 MR. CRONEN: Well, for one thing, the publication of
4 that book does not bear that mark. It was by Golden Dawn
5 Publishing or something else. So, that's not relevant.
6 A website is not a commercial activity if you are just
7 displaying information on it, and they're not selling anything.
8 We have some indication that a few folks sent him some checks; I
9 guess they filled out a form. We don't even know they sent him
10 a check. We don't know. We know they filled out a form. They
11 may just have filled that out in confusion, believing it was my
12 client.
23 that those names are just indication that people were confused,
24 and thought they were joining their organization. I would note
25 that of the three people mentioned, Ralph Fytton -- and this is
45
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8 Temple in September of 2002, and he was, six months later,
9 recruited by Mr. Cicero for his organization, and licensed as
10 The Hermetic Sanctuary of Ma'at.
11 THE COURT: All right.
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12 THE COURT: All right.
13 MR. CRONEN: I do anticipate motions for costs and
14 attorneys' fees potentially, at the end, but --
15 THE COURT: No, I understand that.
16 MR. CRONEN: Okay.
17 THE COURT: This is the question -- before we get into
18 the "Are there any other issues," I have a pop quiz question for
19 the Plaintiff, which is as follows:
20 Section B of H.O.G.D.I.'s reply brief addresses
21 matters raised in Mr. Griffin's reply in support of his motion
22 for summary judgment. Why should the Court not grant Griffin's
23 motion to strike the reply as to this aspect of H.O.G.D.I.'s
24 reply brief as an improper surreply filed by leave of the Court?
25 MR. CRONEN: I'm sorry, I'm just not --
47
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17 I think it was the 20 -- I would be talking out of school at
18 this point. I believe I had a right to --
19 THE COURT: Did the Court grant that permission?
20 MR. HEVIA: Not to my knowledge, Your Honor.
1 to proceed.
2 THE COURT: No, I'll check on it. But what's good for
3 the goose is good for the gander.
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21 And that was in conjunction with that Ordo Roseae mark, the
22 other -- the now expired registration. You see them both up
23 there.
24 And that was Ms. Monastre's article with Mr. Griffin,
25 so she was, you know, operating at that time as -- under the
49
1 partnership, I presume.
2 THE COURT: Mr. Hevia?
3 MR. HEVIA: Our position is that we have continually
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3 THE COURT: All right. Response?
4 MR. HEVIA: They executed the agreement as H.O.G.D.I..
5 We executed it as H.O.G.D.. We have always been very careful to
6 differentiate ourselves, and to make it very clear that we are
7 not affiliated with the Florida corporation or H.O.G.D.I..
8 We believe that they breached their contract by
9 appropriating our name. We also believe that they breached it
10 for a series of other reasons: Trying to implicitly repudiate
11 the contract on or about April 23rd, 2003; trying to once again
12 implicitly repudiate the contract on or about November 5th,
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8 of Ma'at, Golden Dawn, Open Source Golden Dawn, the Sodalitas,
9 et cetera, and others, and states that it has licensed them
10 without any supervision or control.
11 Apart from what is on the record, Your Honor, and I
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12 discovery requests such that there's enough time for the
13 responding party to respond to the request before the date set.
14 Obviously, the request that you are attempting to
15 require deemed admissions were filed in such a way as to be
16 construed as being filed after the close of discovery. I don't
17 understand how that -- that is not an ambiguous rule.
18 MR. HEVIA: The only case that I've found on point is
19 a Seventh Circuit case. I don't know the cite, offhand. It's
20 in my papers.
21 It does not reach the question as to whether a request
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17 written discovery are due.
18 So, I don't agree. I'll look at this further, but I
19 don't agree with your characterization.
20 Anything you want to say on this?
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21 not discussed in the papers, or in response to the Court's
22 questions?
23 MR. CRONEN: I will stand pat, and not bring up the
24 material that we discussed at the beginning of this hearing.
25 That was one of the matters I was going to reserve for the end
56
1 here, but --
2 THE COURT: All right. Anything further you want to
3 say?
14 enforced.
15 MR. CRONEN: Thank you, Your Honor.
16 THE COURT: Put another way, the rules that I've
17 imposed are for the protection and for the benefit of your
18 client and you, and the integrity of the process. They are not
19 flexible, nor am I.
20 MR. CRONEN: Thank you, Your Honor.
21 THE COURT: You need to figure out what movie that
22 comes from, because that's a quote from a movie.
23 MR. HEVIA: Thank you, Your Honor.
24 THE COURT: Let's move on -- just to put a little bit
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3 THE COURT: The tentative is what the tentative is.
4 And I have to say, broadly, again, I want to -- first of all, I
5 think I'm going to direct the parties to order a transcript of
6 these proceedings.
7 I want the Record to have been in the parties' hands
8 about what the Court has ordered, so I'm going to order the
9 parties to jointly share in a transcript of these proceedings.
10 But my general view at this point is probably that the
11 motions will be denied. Again, that could change, but I only
12 say that as an operating assumption for the purposes of these
13 dates.
14 MR. CRONEN: I understand.
15 THE COURT: Because I don't -- I would rather not
16 vacate the trial date. So, noon on the 29th of December. Is
17 that --
18 MR. HEVIA: That's fine, Your Honor.
19 THE COURT: All right. It is going to require you
20 folks to meet and confer in good faith, because the next sort of
21 test of compliance with the Court's rule and the new spirit of
22 cooperation among the parties is going to be that the
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8 that nature of cooperation. Because if you recall, we were
9 ordered by Your Honor to the Attorneys' Lounge to handwrite a
10 scheduling order, because we didn't get cooperation.
11 THE COURT: Well --
1 but you will see in the Court's rules that with respect to
2 exhibits, the Court -- deposition excerpts, the Court does not
3 want to take time to rule on what I call ticky-tack objections
4 on authenticity if there's no real dispute, you know, best
5 evidence rule, Queen Caroline's Rule, any rule.
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12 at fault, and I will issue an appropriate order. So, I'm not
13 going to pre-judge you.
14 We are starting a new era here of cooperation in this
15 case, if the case survives these motions, and I expect you to
16 come up with a result that maintains the positions of your
17 clients, understanding you're now going to be at trial, not the
18 time to fight out the last argument.
19 Yes, Mr. Hevia?
20 MR. HEVIA: A small administrative matter. We will
21 move to appear telephonically on January 8th, because we have to
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17 January 8th, he is going to be working.
18 THE COURT: Well, he can be available by telephone.
19 MR. HEVIA: All right, sir.
20 THE COURT: If that's okay. But you need to be here.
15 outside trial.
16 And nobody is going to get any benefit from that, but
17 I'm not going to put off the trial because of the scheduling,
18 because of his scheduling.
19 MR. HEVIA: I understand.
20 THE COURT: The two other things I want to raise,
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21 which is, now that we have turned a new leaf in terms of the
22 presets of the Hermetic Order, whoever owns the rights of good
23 will, what is the prospect for -- I know you have had
24 discussions, settlement discussions, about a further settlement
25 conference in this case.
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14 the, you know, the war footing of just before trial, they've
15 heard what instructions the Court is going to give, because I
16 will rule on instructions as much as possible at the pretrial,
17 the in limine motions and et cetera, the parties are then in the
18 best position to, before they actually step into trial, to
19 settle. And cases more contentious than this have settled at
20 that point.
21 MR. CRONEN: Sure.
22 THE COURT: And the last point I want to ask about is
23 whether the parties, given the amount of time that it is likely
24 to continue to take, after the order is issued in this case,
25 assuming just for argument's sake that both motions were denied,
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3 more time.
4 MR. CRONEN: No, Your Honor, we would prefer the
5 Court.
6 THE COURT: All right, fine. Then I don't need to ask
7 you, because it doesn't really -- it's irrelevant at that point.
8 I'm not going to pressure anybody.
9 All right. Ms. Ottolini, is there anything that you
10 wanted to --
11 MR. HEVIA: No, Your Honor.
12 THE COURT: Counsel?
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3 allow inappropriate conduct before a jury. That will not be
4 allowed to take place, and the consequences will be very severe.
5 All right, gentleman, thank you very much.
6 MR. CRONEN: Thank you, Your Honor.
7 MR. HEVIA: Thank you, sir.
8 (Conclusion of Proceedings)
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3 CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER
4 I, BELLE BALL, Official Reporter for the United States
5 Court, Northern District of California, hereby certify that the
6 foregoing proceedings in Case No. C-05-432 JSW, The Hermetic
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8 a certified shorthand reporter, and were thereafter transcribed
9 under my direction into typewriting; that the foregoing is a
10 true record of said proceedings as bound by me at the time of
11 filing.
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