Life Transformation With Joan Sotkin

BY ANTHONY TREAS
© 2007 ACTIVATE YOUR POTENTIAL LLC

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ANTHONY: Hello, this is Anthony Treas and today I am with Joan Sotkin. Joan
Sotkin is the author of Build Your Money Muscles, Nine Simple Exercises for
Improving Your Relationships With Money. How are you doing this afternoon,
Joan?
JOAN: Terrific. How are you?
ANTHONY: I’m doing just fine. Now I definitely, I’m really excited to talk about
prosperity here with you today. And you have a different angle than some of the
different interviews I’ve done before on money and prosperity. So I’m really
excited about talking to you here today. Now before we get into that, I’m just
wondering if you would just take a brief minute here to introduce yourself?
JOAN: All right. Well, I have a big website called Prosperity Place, where there’s
lots of free information to help people improve their relationship and money and
themselves, and I have a pod cast called The Prosperity Show. And I got into this
work because I had two millionaire brothers and I couldn’t rub two pennies
together and I wondered why. And so about 25 years ago I asked the question,
how come they can be doing what they’re doing and I’m stuck where I am? And
over the years I’ve just learned a lot of things through experience and became very
interested in the psychological aspects of money and why people do what they do
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with their money. And I had also, I’ve been into metaphysics for a long time and
had heard we create our own reality and came to believe that, and I wondered how
we did that. And so, a lot of the theories that are in the book Build Your Money
Muscles and on my website are built around what I learned as I went on this
journey to figure out the whole money thing.
ANTHONY: Excellent. Now you have mentioned in your information that you,
yourself, have had some financial troubles and...
JOAN: Yes. It was definitely a journey of experience, not of knowledge.
ANTHONY: Exactly. So you do have some personal experience. Now, what

would you say are the most common roots of money problems that people deal
with?
JOAN: Well, first, let’s kind of back up and say what I feel is an important thing to
understand, is that your money is congruent with who you are today. In other
words, it’s not you and your money and you re two separate things. Your money is
perfect in terms of who you are, so that in order to change your financial position,
you have to change some core things about yourself. And what we focus on is
thoughts, beliefs, emotions and behaviors. Now a lot of the prosperity systems
focus on beliefs but I don’t think that you can, at any one time, pick out the
operative beliefs. At any one time there’s like hundreds of beliefs in operation and
it’s really difficult for people to recognize their own beliefs. But what we can
recognize is our thoughts and our feelings, and by focusing on those and shifting
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those, you automatically shift the beliefs, which shift and it also, as you shift the
emotions, it shifts the behaviors so that you develop, in effect, a new congruency,
something else becomes congruent with you and that becomes the new financial
position or your new financial identity. And the big problem with most of the
systems that are out there, everything they say is true. You do the affirmations.
You get your mind in the right place. You change your thoughts, beliefs and
emotions. And they all look at some aspect of that. But what I think is really
important is something I call the identity factor, which is what kicks in anytime
people start to change. And the minute you start making major changes in your
life, you become disoriented.
You get what I call the moving stupid’s. Which is like, when you move from one
house to another and you really want to be in the new house but you get
disoriented, you get stupid. You lose your key’s, you bump into things, that sort of
thing. And so you get disoriented and there’s a tendency to move back to where
you were. Also, there’s the fear of losing your identity. As you begin to change,
you don’t know who you are and it gets very confusing. You also change your
position in your peer group and your position in your family of origin. And
because of this and the fear of being alone, which is the biggest fear behind
money, is that people tend to go back to where they were before.
ANTHONY: Wow. So you just mentioned our identify factor. Would you say
that’s something like our comfort zone? Is that something that you would refer
that as being identify factor?
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JOAN: Comfort zone would be a micro way of looking at it. The identify factor is
who you are.
ANTHONY: Okay.
JOAN: For example, if, and in the book I outline three different financial positions
that people occupy, either less than enough, just enough or more than enough. So
let’s say you’re a just enough person.
ANTHONY: Okay.
JOAN: Where you always have just enough money to cover your bills. You have
just enough money to pay off the credit cards. You’re at a just enough level. You
have an identity as this just enough person, so there’s not going to be a whole lot
of abundance in your world. So what happens, let’s suppose you do a lot of this
work and you start moving up the financial ladder. Well, because you’re a just
enough person, no matter how much money you have, it’s still going to be just
enough. In other words, you’re going to create your life stories so that you’re in a
bigger house, so that you have bigger expenses and you’re going to do everything
that you can to maintain that just enough position, because that’s what’s familiar
to you. The minute you have a dollar more than enough, it’s a whole new set of
decisions you have to start making, so that’s the financial identity, but there’s also
who you are in relationship to the rest of your family. And for example, a lot of the
people I talk to are what you might call the identified patient of the family, where
they’re the ones who have all the trouble or they’re the black sheep of the family.
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The black sheep of the family never feels supported so they have trouble making
money. And if you’ve always been the black sheep of the family and you start
improving your life, not only are you going to feel uncomfortable vis-à-vis your
family, they’re going to be uncomfortable and they’re going to do everything they
can to keep you in your old position.
ANTHONY: Wow.
JOAN: What also happens with your friends, as you start making more money
they’re going to start treating you differently and you’re going to have, and the
main thing that people act out through their money is the fear of being alone, and
that kicks in, so people just go back to that just enough position. And if their new
just enough position is too rich for their peer group, they’re going to make the
money go away and they’ll go back to where they were. It happens over and over
again, especially with people who inherit a lot of money or suddenly get an inflow
of money, before you know it they’re right back where they were before.
ANTHONY: So back to my question. The common root of money problems is

fear?
JOAN: Well, you could say fear. I think that we use our money to act out a series
of hidden emotions.
ANTHONY: Okay.
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JOAN: And these are emotions that we learn in early childhood. So that what you
might say is that there are threads of emotion around which your life stories are
woven. And your financial stories are just part of your life story. Remember, your
money is congruent with who you are.
ANTHONY: Correct.
JOAN: So that if you have, and your thoughts, beliefs, emotions and behaviors are
all habits. So when I say to someone..., “What do you think the basis is?” They’ll
say, “I have a low self image.” Well, low self image is a habit. However you think
is a habit. Whatever you believe is a habit. So if you have the habit of deprivation
or you have the habit of abandonment, you have the habit of shame or feeling
trapped, those feelings are going to keep coming up over and over again and
you’re going to be acting them out through your money. And it’s never about
money, it’s always about relationships, because money is the energy of
relationships. You can’t have money...the money has its value when it passes
between two people or entities. So people are not afraid of running of money,
they’re afraid of running out people, because money is always attached to people.
So to answer your question when you say, what is the basic root of all money
problems? It’s really your relationship with yourself... and how you’re willing to
deal with the world around you. So it is about money but it’s not at all about
money, because when you’re feeling broke, that’s really about relationships.
One of the antidotes to fear of running of money is to go connect to people.

Because when people tell me they’re really hurting financially, I know they’re
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feeling really alone. One of the CDs that’s available on my site is called Letting
Go of the Aloneness That’s Blocking Your Prosperity. Because that feeling of
aloneness is one of the main feelings that people act out through their money.
ANTHONY: Now your book, Build Your Money Muscle, what do you mean by
building your money muscle? You mentioned the just enough person, is that
really...to get to the next level, is that part of building your money muscle?
JOAN: Well, think about it. If you’re in a gym and you haven’t been lifting
weights and you suddenly try to pick up a 100-pound weight, you’re going to hurt
yourself.
ANTHONY: Correct.
JOAN: And it’s the same thing with money. If your habit is, if you’ve got a habit,
or a set point of say, $40,000.00 a year, well, you’re really good at handling that
$40,000.00 a year. In order to handle large sums of money you have to build up
the skills or the money muscle to deal with that kind of money or you’re going to
hurt yourself. And it’s really interesting, because when people do get
inheritances...their friends will say, “Boy, I wish that happened to me.” And I do a
lot of coaching with people who have inherited a lot of money and they haven’t
got a clue as to where to start. And one of the problems I have with a lot of the
prosperity material is, they work a lot on the mind set and the thoughts, beliefs and
emotions, but they don’t focus a lot on financial skills. And I think you have to
learn how to move money around the board. You have to learn how to manage
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cash flow. And it’s not very sexy. It sounds very boring. But if you don’t know
how to manage money you’ll never get wealthy. And a lot of people just want to
do the affirmations and they want to change their thoughts and beliefs, but
somewhere along the line you have to count your money.
ANTHONY: Yeah, we’re never really taught in school on the importance of

checks and balances...in dealing with money and how money is something you
really need to, it affects your life.
JOAN: Right. And money is like people. It goes to people who love and take care
of it.
ANTHONY: That’s a good way of putting it. Now, what are the steps then for
someone, let’s say...you used the example that...let’s say I’m just a just enough
person. How do I become someone who can handle more money? Or...let’s say,
I’d like to have more financial abundance in my life?
JOAN: Okay. Well, first of all, I think it’s important to understand that you’re not
going to shift your financial position quickly.
ANTHONY: Okay.
JOAN: Another one of my pet peeves, like if you get rich quick.
ANTHONY: Yes.
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JOAN: In order to change your financial position, you have to morph. into a new
person. So I start out with helping people just adapt to the process of change. Most
people have done everything they’re doing over and over again for a long time.
And I thought, when you said, “Well, how do we become prosperous?” I say
things like, “Change the direction of the toilet paper. Just get used to changing so
that you can adapt to the feeling of disorientation that’s going to come when you
begin to change.” So like, if you’ve never saved any money. If you’re a just
enough person then you don’t have a savings account.
If you have credit card debt then you’re a less than enough person. But, if you’re a
just enough, take a dollar a week and put it in a drawer somewhere. Because I
guarantee that after you have five to $10.00, you’re going to start obsessing about
that money, because you’re not accustomed to having anything extra. See, this is
not do things fast and flip real estate houses and...this is about shifting how you
deal with your habits and changing them. So I start out by helping people adapt to
change. In Build Your Money Muscles, I also have a technique called the power
word technique, which is based on one of the energy psychology techniques, and
it’s a technique where you use this power word. You give your subconscious
instructions and you use the power word to help you let go of your resistance to
change. And this power word is used for many different parts in my program.
The first thing is to adapt to the process of change. The second thing is to become
financially aware. It absolutely amazes me that people want to become prosperous
and they haven’t got a clue as to how money works. Would you agree with that?
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ANTHONY: Yes, absolutely.
JOAN: That, that’s something that people have to learn? And I think it’s really,
really important. So, those two things can take some time. The financial awareness
thing, to me is an essential part of the whole program. Because a lot of people
suffer from what I call financial vagueness syndrome, which is like, you never
know how much is in your bank account and you’re worried about checks
bouncing and you just, it’s just vagueness about money. So that the financial
awareness step...like people get impatient. “Well, I want to get rich.” Well, yeah,
but first you have to learn about money. And so there’s a number of steps. And in
my book, each of the things is...each of these chapters has as many things to do as
there are theories. It’s a very quick book to read and then there’s just a lot of
things to do and that you can do over time. So first you’re going to condition
yourself for change, then you’re going to develop financial awareness. And then
one of the core things is to identify your financial patterns and the underlying
emotional themes.
ANTHONY: Yeah.
JOAN: What that means is to look at...what’s your pattern? Do you go up and
down? Is it always not enough? There is a pattern to what you do financially. And
then there are systems that I use for recognizing the emotions that you’re acting
out through those financial patterns. Does that make sense to you?
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ANTHONY: Yes, it does. Now, you talk about that a lot of people, they get down
to really wanting to make some financial changes in their life, and they come
across these other programs that talk about...affirmations and changing beliefs.
And that’s good and all, but it almost seems like a lot of people aren’t willing to
put in the action, what I’d like to say the action where you are going to have to
learn some financial skills, where you’re going to know where your money’s at,
know more about finances. Would you agree with that or is that a part of it?
JOAN: Absolutely. And this is not a magical thing that happens, where you do the
affirmation and the money shows up. And there is an awful lot of fantasy thinking,
about people who think that, that’s what’s going to happen. At some point you
have to count your money, you have to take care of the money. Because what
happens if you don’t do that, let’s say something magical happens and the money
shows up. You’re not going to know what to do with it and you’re going to wind
up in the same position you were in before. And, people generally want their lives
to change but they don’t want to change. That’s the big secret. Okay, that’s...
ANTHONY: Yeah, that’s...
JOAN: ...the identity factor, okay? And the fact is, if you’re serious about
changing your financial position, you’re going to have to change your relationship
with money. I love it when people, particularly the metaphysical people say, “I
really want to get rich.” And I’ll start asking them a question and they’ll say, “But
I don’t care that much about money.” Well, surprise! If you don’t care that much
about money, you’re not going to get rich. Because money is an energy force that
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can be totally out of control. Have you ever heard the expression, my money is out
of control?
ANTHONY: No, I have not.
JOAN: Okay. Well, people will say to me, “My spending is out of control. My
money is out of control.”
ANTHONY: Oh, yes. Yes, I see.
JOAN: Okay. And well, money has to be controlled. Money can slip through your
fingers. It can burn a hole in your pocket. You’ve heard of all the expressions.
ANTHONY: Yes.
JOAN: Because it’s so easy to spend it. And there’s somehow this magical belief
that if all this sudden money comes in that you’re going to be able to buy all these
things. And the fact is, you have to learn how to spend less than you have, because
if you don’t spend less than you have you can’t build wealth.
ANTHONY: Well, I think one of the main points that I know that I would want to
get across to the people who are listening to this, and to all the other interviews in
this whole project in itself, it’s really emphasizing that nothing is going to change
without taking action. You can listen to all these interviews. You can read all the
books on financial prosperity. You can read the books on whatever your career or
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your expertise or what have you, but nothing is ever going to change. Your
financials are never going to change, your relationships are never going to change,
your person, yourself, is never going to change, without taking action. You can
read everything about affirmation. You could read everything about changing your
belief’s. You could read everything about manifesting. But nothing is going to
change without taking action. And I...
JOAN: And without changing.
ANTHONY: Yes.
JOAN: In other words, for your money to change, you have to change.
ANTHONY: That’s right.
JOAN: And that’s why I start the book with conditioning yourself for change.
Little things like, a lot of people in the morning, they squeegee the shower
doors...to get the water off, to do that in a different pattern. To change the dishes
in your closet, where they are.
ANTHONY: Yeah.
JOAN: So that you get used to things that aren’t automatic. So, that you create
new neuro pathways in your brain. And the idea is to adapt to change before you
try to change something that’s enormous.
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ANTHONY: Yeah.
JOAN: And to make small...the problem is people want to get rich quick, it’s in
our society now. And it’s...they want the big TV, they want everything today. And
the problem is, if you have everything today, what are you going to do tomorrow?
It’s really the process that matters.
ANTHONY: Yeah.
JOAN: And so learning how to take that dollar a week and put it in a drawer and
when you have $50.00 to open up a savings account. And in order to have more
than enough, then you have to not spend it all. Isn’t that simple? That’s about as
simple as it gets.
ANTHONY: Yeah.
JOAN: So you have to create a container for where the extra money’s going to be.
And then you have, what’s really weird is that, when you have money in a savings
account, it feels different from when you have no money in a savings account. You
put $1,000.00 in a savings account, there’s a feeling that goes with it. I don’t know
how to describe it but it feels different.
ANTHONY: Yeah.
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JOAN: And so you have to get used to the feeling of having more. And all of these
are small, tiny, little steps, but if you’re willing to take them. And that’s why I
have, like a one-year coaching program. Because I found that what happens is, if
you do it just one session at a time, after three or four session’s people go, “Oh, I
don’t have to do this anymore.”, because they’re at that point where they’re
starting to change.
ANTHONY: Yeah.
JOAN: They’re starting to deal with the identity factor and they just go back to
what they were doing. It happens over and over again.
ANTHONY: Yeah. And I think it’s in so many things that...at first, and I’m sure
you come across people like this, too, whether it be in your dealing with people
with financials, they get really excited. You’ll probably like present..., “Okay, put
a dollar a week or a dollar a day in your drawer.” And they get all excited for the
first week or two. Then before you know it, its like, “Are you still putting that
dollar away?” No.
JOAN: Absolutely. You can’t casually decide to change your financial position.
ANTHONY: It’s got to be, you have to have faith in it.
JOAN: You have to be obsessed with it. You have to be obsessed with it.
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ANTHONY: Yeah.
JOAN: When I started this whole thing, I started physically, because I was a
physical mess. I was really sick. And the doctors told me I could never be healthy
and I would probably wind up in an institution. So, I had started, this was way in
the early ‘70s, and I started reading the facts, to even some of the few little health
things that were around. And somewhere along the line I read that it takes seven
years to change all the cells in your body. And I figured, “Well...seven years, I can
deal with seven years to heal.” It took me 21 years to get to the point where I could
say, “I’m healthy.” And I had to be obsessed with it for that long, because it’s so
easy to go back to where you were. I have not, and for me the health thing turned
out to be great, because I have not had sugar, alcohol, caffeine or processed foods
since 1973. And that allows you to develop a certain amount of discipline which
is...
ANTHONY: Well, yeah.
JOAN: ...what you need. But it all boils down to a willingness to take care of
yourself. To treat yourself like someone you love. If you ask me the one thing that
could make this work for you, one thing, it’s to treat yourself like someone that
you love. Because if you are, then you’re talking to yourself nicely and you’re
feeling good about yourself and you’re giving yourself the food you need to power
your vehicle and you’re meditating so that you’re relaxing. It’s a holistic thing.
You can’t just fix your money. You have to fix your relationship with yourself and
the world around you.
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ANTHONY: And it’s really an unfortunate thing that sometimes...people wait for
the worst thing to happen to really start making some changes in their lives. Some
people who may develop cancer...or people who develop different kinds of health
ailments. Or a family member dies in a particular way, and you see how they were
living and you’re living the same way, and that causes you to change. And
sometimes that can cause someone to make some changes but it’s really
unfortunate that for many people it takes something like that to wake them up to
make some changes.
JOAN: But that’s life. That’s life, so that’s what it takes. And for someone in the
business that I’m in, you have to be very kind and non judgmental about where
people are.
ANTHONY: Yes.
JOAN: I can’t fix anyone. All I can do is live by example and share with people
what I’ve learned.
ANTHONY: That’s right. That’s right.
JOAN: I can’t force anyone to do anything. I have this prosperity group that meets
in Santa Fe twice a month and people come in and go out. And I love it, because I
benefit from it because I go to every single meeting. But it’s, my job basically, is
to love people. And maybe my loving them it will help them love themselves.
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Because I know that the more they’re willing to love themselves, the better their
lives are going to get.
ANTHONY: That’s right.
JOAN: And it’s really quite simple but, yes, you have to be willing to take action
and to do the, you’ll pardon the expression, work. There’s a certain amount of
work to it, okay?
ANTHONY: Yeah.
JOAN: And one of...the power word technique which I introduce in the book, is to
help people release their resistance to doing what has to be done and also, to learn
how to be easy on yourself. Like I have a client who, she said, “My biggest
problem is I don’t balance my checkbook.” And she expected me to say,
“Well...here, I’m going to coach you and you’re going to learn to balance your
checkbook.” But it turns out she’s someone who is a people pleaser. She does
what other people want her to do. And I thought it was fabulous that she wasn’t
balancing her checkbook, because she was disobeying and that was fabulous. So
it’s a very personal thing. And it’s about feeling, being able to support who you
are, that authentic self. So that part of it is learning how to say, “That doesn’t work
for me.” My basic theory is that, one of the sayings I teach people is, “If one of us
has to be uncomfortable it doesn’t have to be me.” And the corollary to that is,
“No, is a complete sentence.” So that when you begin to set your boundaries,
when you begin to support and respect yourself, that empowers you and that
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allows you to move in this new direction. Just doing the affirmation isn’t going to
help, unless you also change the way you deal with yourself and how you treat
yourself.
ANTHONY: Yes. And that’s really...providing this information so that people will
choose to make those changes in their lives and providing this information that
they would eventually get the guidance that they need. Such as people like
yourself, who not only this information very well but also have experienced it and
can also help people make these little incremental steps. And whether it’s small
steps, and like you said, and that’s the good thing about this is that, about making
any kind of changes in your life, it’s really just starting out with those small steps.
JOAN: Right.
ANTHONY: And then continually moving forward and forward and forward.
JOAN: Right. So instead of thinking about being a millionaire, think about earning
10 percent more than you earn now.
ANTHONY: Yes.
JOAN: That becomes doable.
ANTHONY: Yes.
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JOAN: When people tell me, when I say to them, “Well, what do you need to be
comfortable?” And they’ll say, “A million dollars.” And they’re making
$40,000.00 a year. (Anthony Treas chuckling) Well, then they’re not planning on
being comfortable. Because they think that it’s easy to make a million dollars. It’s
not easy to make a million dollars. You’ve got to work at it. If you listen to
someone like Brian Tracy (ph), he says, “The people who are wealthy work a lot
harder than people who are not.”, and so if you just think in terms of, “Okay, what
do I do to have to make 10 percent more than I make now?” That becomes a
reasonable goal, a reachable goal. And then what you do is, you build success into
your own system.
So I say stop thinking about a million dollars, just think about a little bit more.
And say you’re making $40,000.00 a year now and you think of making
$44,000.00 a year. Well, what are you going to do with that extra $4,000.00?
Before you know it, people have a bigger house and a bigger car and they’re right
back to just enough. So you have to be willing to take that extra $4,000.00 and put
it into a bank account. It’s like paper trading. When you’re teaching people how to
trade in the stock market, they have to learn how to paper trade first, how to do it
on paper first, so that they’re not losing real money while they’re learning, and it’s
the same thing. It’s almost like you’ve got to paper trade with just a little.
Let’s say you’ve got 10 percent more a month than you’ve got now. What are you
going to do with it? And to make that real, supposing you had an extra $10,000.00
coming into your life. What would you do with it, other than spend it? Because
most people just spend it and wind up right where they are. So, it is so important,
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and this is the thing that, it just amazes me that people think you don’t have to do
this, you have to learn how to take care of money. You have to learn how
to...where do you put it? Supposing you won the lottery. What would you do with
the check? What would you physically do with it? And how would you find a
financial advisor? Now, before you have the money, that’s the time to look at a
financial advisor.
ANTHONY: Yeah.
JOAN: Because you’re not going to know what to do with it, other than spend it.
Do you see?
ANTHONY: I do. And we definitely have covered a lot of great information. And
for those who want to get more information from Joan, please click the link below
this audio and really take the time to listen to this interview a couple of times. And
then also, take notes and then begin implementing those little things that we’ve
provided you with here. So, click on that link below and get more information in
building your money muscle. Joan, is there any last thing that you would want to
mention before we close this call?
JOAN: I’d just ask that people do their best in loving themselves and the world
around them. It’s all about love and gratitude and peace. And when you’re able to
feel those things, when you can love, accept, acknowledge and appreciate
yourself, the world will mirror that back to you and you’re going to get paid.
______________________________________________________________________________________
ANTHONY: Well, those who are listening, we appreciate you taking the time to
listen to this. And Joan, I appreciate you taking the time and your contribution to
this project.
JOAN: My pleasure.
ANTHONY: Thank you and goodbye for now.
JOAN: Bye.
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Life Transformation With Joan Sotkin

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Life Transformation With Joan Sotkin

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BY ANTHONY TREAS

© 2007 ACTIVATE YOUR POTENTIAL LLC

JOAN: Terrific. How are you?

JOAN: Yes. It was definitely a journey of experience, not of knowledge.

ANTHONY: Exactly. So you do have some personal experience. Now, what

ANTHONY: So back to my question. The common root of money problems is

One of the antidotes to fear of running of money is to go connect to people.

ANTHONY: Yeah, we’re never really taught in school on the importance of

ANTHONY: Yeah, that’s...

ANTHONY: No, I have not.

ANTHONY: Oh, yes. Yes, I see.

JOAN: And without changing.

ANTHONY: That’s right.

ANTHONY: It’s got to be, you have to have faith in it.

ANTHONY: Well, yeah.

ANTHONY: That’s right. That’s right.

ANTHONY: That’s right.

JOAN: That becomes doable.

ANTHONY: Thank you and goodbye for now.

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