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NATIONAL COMMISSION ON
TERRORIST ATTACKS UPON THE UNITED STATES

Minutes of the August 14, 2003 Meeting

The Chair called the Commission to order at 9:05 a.m. on August 14, 2003. Chairman
Kean, Vice Chair Hamilton, and Commissioners Ben-Veniste, Cleland, Fielding, Gorton,
Lehman, and Roemer were present.

Minutes. The minutes of the July 31, 2003 meeting were agreed to, after the incorporation
of two minor changes.

Access. The Chair reported on his August 13 meeting with Judge Gonzales. The Judge
confirmed that all NSPDs, all PDDs, and the four drafts of NSPD-9 would be made
available to the Commission; however, no notes may be taken on these documents. The
Judge indicated that he was very nervous about making these documents available, and that
he would strongly prefer that the Commission not publicly disclose its access to these
documents. If asked, he prefers that the Commission respond by saying that it "has the
materials it needs."

Since the Commission had not agreed to minders during interviews with former
government employees, the Judge asked if they could see the transcripts or recordings of
these interviews. The Chair denied this request The Vice Chair and Commissioner Gorton
suggested that if the Commission receives testimony from former government officials that
differs from past accounts, then the Commission can consult with the parent agency on an
ad hoc basis.

The Chair voiced the Commission's concerns to the Judge regarding restrictions on note-
taking as a condition of obtaining access, adding that the Commission hasn't agreed to such
conditions. Commissioner Ben-Veniste noted that this decision could be made at a later
date. Commissioner Fielding observed that the Commission was in uncharted water, and
that it does not want to commit to anything beyond what it needs.

The Vice Chair stated that he never recalled seeing presidential deliberative documents, and
surmised that Congress must be a source of the Judge's concerns. Commissioner Ben-
Veniste stated that the extraordinary circumstance of the attack justifies the Commission's
level of access.

Commissioner Roemer thanked the Chair for raising these issues with the Judge and
working them through. He noted that NSPD-9 is one of many key documents, and that the
Commission needs to be able to assess how effective the NSC is in fighting terrorism under
both administrations. Commissioner Lehman added that he had heard that 280 people now
worked at the NSC, and wondered if the body had become too bureaucratic.

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Commissioner Roemer asked about access to MONs and PDBs from both the Clinton and
Bush administrations. Regarding the MONs, the Executive Director responded that there
was only one during the Bush administration, and that it is held very closely because it is a
post-9/11 operation still in effect. He added that the Commission already has MONs from
the previous administration.

Regarding PDBs, the Executive Director noted that they are encompassed by a CIA request,
which also includes any questions about or comments on PDB material. The decision to
release PDBs will be made at the level of the President. The Executive Director reported
that he did not know what the White House would decide, but that the Commission has
been very up front about its need for PDBs.

Commissioner Roemer stated that these are the essential documents; if the Commission
doesn't get them, it can't understand the problem, tell the story, and make
recommendations. The Executive Director said that this was a fair appraisal, and added that
the Commission needs answers on all of these key access questions. He added that the
Commission is now at the climactic wave of decision-making, and these decisions will
need to be made in the next few weeks. The terrain will need to be clear prior to the next
interim report.

After two requests by the Chair, the Vice Chair noted that the Commission was denied
access to the PEOC.

Commissioner Gorton said that it would behoove both the White House and the
Commission to disclose agreements on access. The Chair, he added, needs to be able to
answer questions accurately. Commissioners Roemer, Ben-Veniste, and Cleland concurred.

The Vice Chair wondered whether it served the national security interest to acknowledge
what the White House has made available to the Commission. He noted that the
Commission has received access to everything it has requested thus far, and sometimes it is
advantageous to be ambiguous in government policy. He said that the Commission could
not argue that its requests do not create a precedent, adding that the Intelligence
Committees will bear down hard on the White House. Commissioner Roemer stated that
the White House had been very clever about not establishing precedent. They retain the
documents, but the Commission views them over there. The White House, he contended,
has put together a response in a way that protects its rights.

Commissioner Fielding stated that the Commission shouldn't resolve this issue today. The
Commission does not need to prove what it has, as the report will clearly show what the
Commission has received. Furthermore, that the Commission could specifically comment
on what it has not received. Commissioner Ben-Veniste added that the White House would
have to give the Commission everything in order to honor the Judge's non-disclosure
request.

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Commissioner Gorton concurred with the Vice Chair's point, and suggested that the Chair,
Vice Chair, and Executive Director think the issues through and come up with
recommendations in early September. Commissioner Lehman, noting that the Judge had
requested a personal favor from the Chair, stated his belief that this [the White House] is a
group with which the Commission can work, and that the Commission ought to think twice
before risking relations.

Commissioner Ben-Veniste noted that the press knows what the Commission has asked for;
if the Commission says that it has received everything up until this point, they'll know. He
observed that the White House has cooperated, but the agencies have not. Yet, at the same
time, the same agencies refer decisions to the White House. The Executive Director
responded that the White House understands that it is accountable for executive branch
agencies.

Commissioner Ben-Veniste inquired about the status of the Air-Threat Conference Call.
The Executive Director stated that the Defense Department had transcribed the recording
by the end of July. The transcript was then forwarded to the Justice Department. Levin said
he would resolve the issue between Tuesday and Thursday a.m. but could not, and that it
was his fault. Commissioner Ben-Veniste stated that this was unacceptable, and requested
that Commission send a letter to Levin with a copy to Gonzales.

Commissioner Lehman stated that it should be very clear to the agencies that they do not
want to be named in the next interim report. The Vice Chair suggested that the Commission
send a letter in the near future to each agency head thanking them for what they've
provided, telling them what the Commission has yet to receive, and informing them about
the interim report in September. Commissioner Ben-Veniste praised the idea;
Commissioner Fielding suggested that the Commission send the letter in draft form.

The Executive Director suggested that the Commission: 1) ask for agency replies in
advance of the next meeting, and 2) request that the agencies make all policy decisions
determining the Commission's access to these issues. The Commission agreed to send
letters to agency heads in the next 24-48 hours.

Commissioner Roemer inquired about the status of EOF Document Request No. 2. The
Executive Director responded that the Commission has all of the Bush material and hopes
to have all of the Clinton material in the reading room by the end of the month. He added
that OMB submissions on the counterterrorism budget were delivered the previous day.

Regarding DCI Document Request No. 8, the Executive Director noted that the due date
was July 17. Of the forty categories of documents, the agency had delivered one-third of the
requests in whole or part. A few of the documents are so sensitive that they are being held
at the CIA. He added that the Commission had not been given access to the most sensitive
high-level policy documents. Commissioner Roemer observed that the delay was
unacceptable, and suggested that the Commission send a letter to Stan Moskowitz. The

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Executive Director recommended that, in addition to the generic agency letter, that the
Commission instead consider meeting with Moskowitz in person.

Commissioner Ben-Veniste asked if the staff could provide a "road map" of the documents
so that the Commissioners will know what they need to review.

Public Activities. The Chair outlined the staff proposal for three policy roundtables in the
fall, co-hosted by partner institutions. Commissioner Roemer believed that the proposal
leaned too much toward disappearing from the public eye, and that the Commission should
exclusively coordinate each event. He and Commissioner Lehman suggested that the
Commission look at the DNI and MI-5 proposals, Saudi Arabia, and transportation and
airport security. The Executive Director noted that the Director General of the MI-5 had
offered to brief the Commission at one of its upcoming meetings.

The Vice Chair and Commissioner Roemer suggested that public hearings should have
more focus. The Vice Chair added that witnesses should address specific arguments.
Commissioner Ben-Veniste suggested that the Commission focus on fact gathering in
public hearings on topics such as airport security and the FAA and NORAD. He added that
the Commission should show the families that it is following up on issues close to their
heart and not allowing slippage. The Chair suggested that the Commission look at the sky
marshal issue; Commissioner Lehman raised the topic of INS and Customs. Commissioner
Ben-Veniste asked when the Commission was going to discuss intelligence failures, adding
that he would like to talk about what such a hearing would look like.

Commissioner Lehman stated that the Commissioners are not blank slates and already
know most of what they need to know. The issue is not the inductive process and lengthy
briefing books. The Commission, he added, needs to get on with the task of holding
hearings and that he would give up poring over hundreds of pages of documents to do so.

Commissioner Gorton noted that the Commission is moving constructively. He believes

that a significant amount of staff time should be devoted to the question of what happened.
As for policy recommendations, he stated that the Commission could almost make some
today; while others would require more study. Neither, he stated, should require huge
amounts of staff time.

The Executive Director reported that seven out of the eight teams are having difficulty
keeping up with the document flow.

Process vs. Substance. The Vice Chair stated his preference that the Commission begin to
discuss more substance at Commission meetings. He conceded that it was important to
discuss access questions, but that at some point, the Commission needs to dedicate more
time to substance. He suggested that the next interim report describe the substantive
questions that the Commission is pursuing. The Commission doesn't have to take a
position, but it should begin to shift emphasis from process to substance.

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The Vice Chair asked that the Commission entertain the idea of an access subcommittee.
The Commission agreed that two Republicans and two Democrats should sit on the
subcommittee. Commissioners Fielding, Gorton, Roemer, and Ben-Veniste were nominated
and accepted.

Commissioners Roemer and Ben-Veniste asked that the length of Commission meetings be
extended to allow for more substantive discussions. Commissioner Ben-Veniste asked that
briefing binders be sent the Friday before Commission meetings.

Warning Briefing. The Commission received a SECRET-level briefing on warning from

three intelligence experts: Assistant Director for Central Intelligence for Collection Charles
E. Allen, former National Intelligence Council Chairman Fritz W. Ermarth, and former
NSC Senior Director for Intelligence Programs Mary O. McCarthy.

The meeting was adjourned at 1:00 p.m.

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