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How To Build A Vacuum Tube Tesla Coil (VTTC)

by Xellers on June 7, 2009 Table of Contents How To Build A Vacuum Tube Tesla Coil (VTTC) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Intro: How To Build A Vacuum Tube Tesla Coil (VTTC) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Step 1: Vacuum Tube? What's a Vacuum Tube? . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Step 2: The Triode . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Step 3: The Vacuum Tube Oscillator . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Step 4: Our Tesla Coil Schematic . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Step 5: Parts! . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Step 6: Assembling the Base . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Step 7: Winding the Secondary Coil . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 2 4 5 5 6 6 9 9

Step 8: Testing . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 10 Step 9: Sparks! . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 11 Step 10: Conclusion . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 12 Related Instructables . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 12 Comments . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 13

http://www.instructables.com/id/How-To-Build-A-Vacuum-Tube-Tesla-Coil-VTTC/

Intro: How To Build A Vacuum Tube Tesla Coil (VTTC)

Can't find a neon sign transformer? Want to build your first Tesla Coil without facing the complexities of going solid state? Here's some good news, vacuum tube Tesla Coils, which have mostly been overlooked in recent years as obsolete, can be just as rewarding as any other type of coil without breaking the bank. Noteworthy: I am a freshman in high school as thus cannot afford an expensive camera, some of the pictures in the instructable will not be very good. Additionally, I was in eighth grade when I built this project. Updates will come soon, hopefully including more detailed instructions, higher quality pictures, and maybe even a video. Also, while this project does work in its current form, I have detected some problems and and working to fix them. You would best be advised to postpone your building until then - it seems that theses tubes could operate more efficiently at higher frequencies and my primary RLC tank circuit's natural frequency is much higher than my secondary side RLC circuit's natural frequency; a new secondary coil with a frequency of approximately 1.5MHz is being designed and the primary circuit will be retuned. I expect a great leap in performance, with sparks possibly as long as 7" to 9". 3/10/10: I decided to try to estimate the resonant frequencies of my primary and secondary circuits using deepfriedneon's formulas, and I found that my coil is oscillating about 100kHz above my primary circuit. I don't have any parts to fix this now, but will add a capacitor or two to the primary circuit to lower its frequency soon. IMPORTANT: I found a 6.3V at 12A Hammond power transformer and replaced my 5V computer power supply - the results were truly impressive; I am getting better performance with one tube than I ever got with two, filament voltage really matters! Here is a quick video:

4/16/10: The MOT plate transformer burnt out because the secondary windings were damaged by previous experiments (SGTC,s, Jacob's Ladders, etc.). It was replaced with a larger one and the sparks are now almost 7" long - this coil performs as well as Steve's did with only one tube and with a poorly tuned primary oscillator! (Video soon!) Thanks!

Image Notes 1. 5" long sparks using only one 811A tube, and the coil is about 100kHz out of tune! Results when coil is properly tuned (when I buy a new capacitor) should be amazing.

http://www.instructables.com/id/How-To-Build-A-Vacuum-Tube-Tesla-Coil-VTTC/

http://www.instructables.com/id/How-To-Build-A-Vacuum-Tube-Tesla-Coil-VTTC/

Step 1: Vacuum Tube? What's a Vacuum Tube?

In the early 21st century, many of us have never even heard of vacuum tubes, and the few who have only know that they were used in old electronics. Therefore, before I begin this project, I feel the need to explain how they work. Lets take a look at picture 1. This is the standard symbol for a vacuum tube diode. A diode only conducts electricity in one direction. They can be used to turn an alternating current into a direct current. In the diagram, the bottom half hexagon is the filament. It is just like the filament inside of an incandescent lightbulb. The line above it is called the plate. The circle around the filament and plate represents the (usually glass, sometimes metal) envelope of the tube. Almost all of the air inside of this envelope has been evacuated, there is a vacuum. This will become important later. Now, lets take a look at picture 2. Here we have applied a voltage between the filament and the plate. The filament is negatively charged, and the plate is positively charged. While the electrons in the filament are attracted to the plate, there is not enough voltage for them to do so on their own. So how can we get them to jump? Take a look at picture 3. In picture 3, a few new things have appeared.First, we have a 10 volt power supply connected to each side of the filament. Just as in an incandescent lightbulb, this heats the filament up. The negative side of the power supply is still connected to the filament, but the positive side is not. Notice that now, the negatively charged electrons are stil flowing into the filament from the 100 volt power supply, but something is different. Why are they floating around the filament? As the filament heats up, thermionic emissions occur. Essentially, the electrons are shaken off of the filament by its thermal energy. This can happen because there is a vacuum. So now, the question is: What happens when we connect the positive side of the 100 volt power supply to the plate? Take a look at picture 4 to find out. In picture 4, the positive side of the 100 volt power supply is connected to the plate. We have zoomed back towards the tube. In the picture, the electrons floating around the filament are moving towards the plate! There are no air particles to hinder their passage, so after the thermionic emission occurs, the positively charged plate attracts them, and they accelerate towards it, hit it, and move along the wire back into the power supply. That's how a vacuum tube diode works. The principle of operation is relatively simple, but a Tesla Coil such as the one that we are building is an oscillator. That means that there is a feedback system that turns the diode on and off, to accomplish this, we use a triode. Read on the find out how it works.

Image Notes 1. This is the filament 2. This is the plate 3. This picture was created by me using "Paint", it was not take off of the internet.

Image Notes 1. This picture was created by me using "Paint", it was not take off of the internet.

http://www.instructables.com/id/How-To-Build-A-Vacuum-Tube-Tesla-Coil-VTTC/

Image Notes 1. This picture was created by me using "Paint", it was not take off of the internet.

Image Notes 1. This picture was created by me using "Paint", it was not take off of the internet.

Step 2: The Triode

The first true electronic amplifier was the vacuum tube triode. It works because like charges (in this case, electrons) repel each other. Take a look at picture 1. It looks similar to the symbol for a vacuum tube diode, but it has an extra part that looks like a grid between the plate and filament. This grid normally allows electrons to pass through itself for diode operation, but as it grows more and more negatively charged, it allows less and less electrons to travel from the filament to the plate due to electrostatic repulsion. In this way, you can regulate the flow of a relatively large current by using a relatively small one.

Image Notes 1. This picture was created by me using "Paint", it was not take off of the internet.

Step 3: The Vacuum Tube Oscillator

A Tesla Coil is essentially a very large oscillator. When the primary side of the coil oscillates at the natural frequency of the secondary side, resonance is achieved. This is a fundamental concept that is used in all Tesla Coils and other resonant transformers (such as the ones found in many switch-mode power supplies, and CRT television sets). The Vacuum Tube Tesla Coil that I detail here uses a configuration known as an Armstrong Oscillator. In the standard model of a transformer, there are two coils, a primary and a secondary coil. Currents are usually induced from the primary coil to the secondary coil (although the opposite sometimes happens, usually with destructive results), this is a concept that we will not go over now, if you are unfamiliar with it, then this is a good place to become acquainted: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transformer. However, an Armstrong Oscillator works by introducing a third coil, called the feedback, or sometimes "tickler" coil. Currents are not only induced from the primary coil into the secondary coil, but also into the feedback coil. This feedback is then used to turn off the oscillator by blocking current from flowing into the primary coil. However, when the primary coil is turned off, current is no longer induced into the feedback coil, and it no longer blocks current from flowing through the primary coil. In this way, the cycle repeats indefinitely, until it is interrupted, or the power is switched off. The basic schematic for an Armstrong Oscillator using a vacuum tube is given in the first picture. (This picture is from Steve Ward's site: http://www.stevehv.4hv.org/VTTCfaq.htm, you can read more about VTTC operation there)

http://www.instructables.com/id/How-To-Build-A-Vacuum-Tube-Tesla-Coil-VTTC/

Step 4: Our Tesla Coil Schematic

Here is the particular schematic for the Tesla Coil that we will be building. I do not take credit for its creation - it was made by Steve Ward and you can find the full - sized image on his site here: www.stevehv.4hv.org/VTTC1/dual811Aschematic.JPG . A few things that you should note are that I have found that you should make the primary coil (L1) slightly larger but allow for it to be tapped every other turn. Also, I've noticed that a slightly larger (~2nF) tank capacitor (C1) works better for my coil, but this could vary. Also, if you are adventurous enough, you might consider using a level shifter to double the voltage to the 811A tubes to 4000VAC RMS and then use a staccato circuit (something you should consider even without the level shifter) to keep the tubes running cool. However, since this is a slightly more advanced project I will not cover it here (yet!).

Step 5: Parts!
Here are the parts that I used, and the approximately how much each one cost: ~$30 (2) 811A Vacuum Tube Triodes ~$0 (1) Microwave Oven Transformer ~$10 (1) 30kV 1.0nF Polystyrene Capacitor (2 or 3nF will also work here, I found that larger capacitance increased the performance slightly) ~$15 (1) Bundle of 1000 ft. of 28 AWG Magnet Wire ~$10 (1) Bundle of 100ft. of 16 AWG Insulated Audio Wire (Can be purchased from Radio Shack) ~$3 (2) Small Circuit Boards ~$10 (1) 1' x 1' x 1" Wooden Board (This price is for about 10 of these boards) ~$5 (1) Box of Nails ~$0 (2) Ferrite Toroid Cores (Should be at least about 1/2" in inner diameter, these are not critical parts) ~$2 (4) 3kV 1.8nF Ceramic Disk Capacitors ~$10 (1) 50W 5k Resistor ( = Ohm Symbol) ~$7 (2) 20W 30 Resistors ~$0 (1) 6.3 VAC 10A Filament Transformer (You can use 5 volts from a modified computer power supply instead if you want to save some money, but the performance will decrease)

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~$5 (1) Small Container of Epoxy Glue (This is for gluing the secondary coil down, if you want to experiment (like me) then you shouldn't glue the coil down) ~$5 (1) 1' of 4" Diameter PVC Pipe (Primary Former) ~$3 (1) 1' of 2" Diameter PVC Pipe (Secondary Former) Total: ~$100 This is actually a very crude estimate, and shipping costs will differ depending upon where you buy from and where you live. The parts marked $0 were either salvaged (like the Microwave Oven Transformer) or they were free samples (like the Ferrite Toroid Cores) or were already owned (I used a computer power supply instead of a costly filament transformer).

http://www.instructables.com/id/How-To-Build-A-Vacuum-Tube-Tesla-Coil-VTTC/

http://www.instructables.com/id/How-To-Build-A-Vacuum-Tube-Tesla-Coil-VTTC/

Step 6: Assembling the Base

While there are no general guidelines on how to do this step properly, you should strive to fit everything on one board and keep connections as short and simple as possible with as few overlapping and/or twisted wires as possible in order to minimize stray capacitance and inductance. Here, you can see my main board with all of the major parts. One thing you may have noticed is that some of my photos appear to show a coil with a different base - this was the original variant of the coil which did not work as well because of the long hookup wires.

Image Notes 1. Secondary Coil 2. Microwave Oven Transformer 3. Alligator Clips for the Primary Taps 4. Tank Capacitors 5. Feedback Coil 6. Primary Coil 7. Vacuum Tube Protection Circuitry (Resistor and Inductor Circuits) 8. Vacuum Tubes 9. Filament Power From the Computer Power Supply 10. Mains Power for the Microwave Oven Transformer 11. RF Filter - Found Inside of an Old Microwave 12. 5k 50W Resistor 13. Connections to Feedback Coil 14. All Ground Point Lead Here (To the Microwave Oven Transformer's Case) 15. 1.8nF 6kV (Equivalent) Capacitors Connected Across the Resistor 16. Helping Hands Holding Up a Grounded Discharge Rod 17. This Wire Leads to the Bottom of the Secondary Coil - it is Connected to the Microwave Oven Transformer's Case (Ground)

Step 7: Winding the Secondary Coil

Unfortunately, I did not take pictures of this part of my construction - both of my hands were too busy winding and holding! The ideas involved in winding an effective secondary coil are very simple, but some things are easier said than done. All that you are really doing is winding wire around your 2" PVC pipe former. Here are a few general guidelines for winding your own coil: DO NOT: 1) Break the wire - if the wire snaps half way through, it is better to buy a new roll (or buy are bigger one in the first place) than to solder the broken wires back together. This is not a good idea because you will risk serious damage to your coil - there will be problems with unwanted discharges (the secondary coil could potentially arc to the primary coil and ruin the entire primary circuit; very bad) and the coil can also destroy itself by burning through the plastic form or by melting the solder you used to hold the rip together, thus unwinding the secondary coil. 2) Drill Holes in the Secondary Coil Former - this is the most common mistake, and you will pay the price for it with this coil. If you drill holes in the secondary former, there will be a huge risk of the coil discharging through the inside of the pipe or discharging upwards though the secondary former (at the top) and damaging itself (not to mention that the impressive sparks won't be flying into the air, but rather melting through the secondary former). 3) Wind the Secondary Coil Haphazardly - If you cross windings or wind them on top of each other, the performance of your coil will suffer greatly and the secondary coil will be at risk of damaging itself. While its okay to make one or two small mistakes (with emphasis on small!) near the bottom of the secondary coil, you will regret it if you do not wind well. DO: 1) Use relatively thick wire for winding the secondary coil - increasing the thickness of the wire you are using will make it easier for you to wind the secondary coil and will decrease the chances of the wire snapping. 2) Wear gloves while working with your coil and/or wash your hands very well - some of the various molecules in your sweat and on your hands, if caught on the secondary coil, can decrease performance. While you can wind the coil with sweaty hands, you will notice that the sparks will be shorter than if you had used dry, washed hands or worn gloves. 3) Work slowly and deliberately - its not a race, you will make fewer mistakes if you are willing to commit a few hours to winding the coil. Sometimes, if you make a

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mistake earlier on, you might want to unwind and then rewind the coil entirely. For this particular coil, I wound the secondary half way through before I noticed some crossed windings and rewound the whole thing. 4) Use shellac (I used the spray-on type) or polyurethane to cover your secondary coil - this will help to prevent the coil from unwinding and will hold everything together well, it also looks and feels very nice. Give it a good day to dry off after the shellac (even if the can only says 15 minutes) as the secondary coil might erupt in flames if the coating has not dried thoroughly.

Step 8: Testing
When you're finally ready to turn your coil on, be sure that you have a large open area to work in where there is no danger of sparks from the coil setting anything on fire. I would recommend testing the coil at a lower voltage first (using a Variac - I would start by testing it around 30VAC input first and then working up to full power) instead of plugging it in to see what happens. Also, a 10 ampere FAST safety fuse is REQUIRED in series with the mains electricity you are using in order to prevent electrical fires and other nasty scenarios in the event that your coil does not work properly. Before you plug anything in, however, you should use a multimeter to make sure that your connections are all correct and that your vacuum tubes are not damaged (ie. burnt our filament, shorted grid and filament, etc. - all of these have happened to me when working with vacuum tubes) On the first attempt, do not expect to immediately be rewarded with roaring sparks - be glad if your coil works at all. Once you have established that it does, then attach a small topload to the top of the secondary coil (I like to use a filment lightbulb wrapped tightly in aluminum foil) and use the taps on the primary coil to tune your coil for maximal spark length. Note: you will need some sort of breakout point like a sharp nail if you use a topload of any sort). Here are some pictures of my Tesla Coil's first light:

http://www.instructables.com/id/How-To-Build-A-Vacuum-Tube-Tesla-Coil-VTTC/

Step 9: Sparks!
If you're satisfied with the way your tests are looking, then you can plug everything in and enjoy the plasma! Interesting experiments you can try include observing discharges inside of an argon filled lightbulb, inside of a vacuum tube (be careful some tubes might produce small amounts of X-Ray radiation if you do this by way of Bremsstrahlung), and you can light up fluorescent tubes at a distance. Also, if you remove the breakout point and tune a nearby radio (and sometimes a faraway radio too) to the resonant frequency of your coil (Usually somewhere on the AM band) you will be able to hear the 60Hz buzz of the coil.

Image Notes 1. 5" long sparks using only one 811A tube, and the coil is about 100kHz out of tune! Results when coil is properly tuned (when I buy a new capacitor) should be amazing.

http://www.instructables.com/id/How-To-Build-A-Vacuum-Tube-Tesla-Coil-VTTC/

Step 10: Conclusion

This is a page where I will answer general (and sometimes specific) questions that you have and will try to help to explain some of the deeper operating principles principles of the Tesla Coil. On a different note, the 811A also makes a great audio output tube!

Image Notes 1. 811A in Class A2 2. 5AQ5 (Equivalent to 6V6GT) driving the 811A in Class A2. 3. 12AX7 Preamplifier - Made from a dead Heathkit HD-11 Q-Multiplier. 4. A 12V power transformer being used as an audio output transformer, will be upgraded soon! 5. Filament Transformer (Same as the one used in the VTTC). 6. Power Transformer - A lucky find from an HP Nixie Tube Voltage Meter.

Related Instructables

Amazing plasma globe tricks that you never knew before!!! by Plasmana

Jiffycoil's Tesla Coil projects (Photos) by jiffycoil

Tesla Coils for Dummies (Photos) by Xellers

Work safely with high voltage by kovo

How to build a Tesla Coil by DevCoder

Step By Step Plans To Building A 250,000 Volt Tesla Coil by Tesla Coiler

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Comments
50 comments Add Comment view all 111 comments
Mar 11, 2011. 4:22 PM REPLY

jp333 says:
i have built a vttc i have found the plans on your web site and nothing is happening wen i test it there was a loud hum sound and that was it . the tubes are not heating up and the grid circuit does not seem to be working but the continuity is ok. also continuity is ok thou the rest of the Tesla coil please help specs 1 k mot 1.85uf microwave oven cap two 811a's veritable resistor in gird with 0.0022uf cap

jp333 says:

Mar 14, 2011. 9:48 PM REPLY hello i am still having problems with my coil. i have done some readjusting to my coil and also remove 1.85uf microwave oven cap as the tank cap and replace it with an a new one but still no success . it seems like to me feedback coil isn't picking any thing up at all and i don't know y . i hope these photos can help.

Xellers says:

Mar 14, 2011. 10:15 PM REPLY What are the dimensions of your feedback coil? From what I see, it looks like only 1 turn of wire! One things you should consider is that the LC circuit formed by L1 and C1 is a tuned circuit that should resonate with the secondary coil and topload! You MUST make sure these are tuned properly, or else you will get little or no output - I would suggest making a completely new primary circuit (new primary coil and new capacitor) with the specifications I give in the instructable, that way, you know that everything is already approximately tuned. You CANNOT use a microwave oven capacitor in your primary circuit because the voltage rating is a bit low and its capacitance is way too high!

Xellers says:

Mar 11, 2011. 5:49 PM REPLY Hello, I'm quite glad that someone actually went and tried this instructable out! As for your coil not oscillating, one possible culprit is the feedback coil. In any circuit involving an Armstrong oscillator, I always try reversing the feedback coil connections if it doesn't start up. As for the parts you listed, what what do you mean when you say a "1 k mot"? What parameter is " 1 k" describing? Also, where did you use the microwave oven capacitor? There is no place in this circuit for one and if you inserted it somewhere, it might be causing problems. What sort of grid resistor are you using? If it's not a high enough wattage resistor, it will quickly die and if it's too big or too small, the coil might not oscillate properly. When you say that the tubes are not heating up, do you mean that the filaments are not lighting? If so, there's something wrong with the filament transformer circuit (for example, if you inserted the microwave capacitor across the tubes' filaments, then that would cause the filament power supply to short circuit). Finally, what do you mean when you say the "continuity is ok"? What exactly were you testing? The easiest way for me to try to diagnose the problem is to look at what you built. If possible, can you upload and post some pictures of your coil from different angles so that I can see what you did (if you do, please make sure the photographs are detailed enough for me to see what's going on)? Also, if you have access to a video camera, can you post a video of yourself quickly demonstrating what happens when you turn the coil on? Good luck! Xellers

jp333 says:
(removed by author or community request)

Mar 5, 2011. 11:57 AM

http://www.instructables.com/id/How-To-Build-A-Vacuum-Tube-Tesla-Coil-VTTC/

Xellers says:

Mar 5, 2011. 12:07 PM REPLY Unfortunately, as much as I would like to help, I'm afraid I can't do that because I don't understand what your comment means. If you want to audiomodulate your VTTC, the easiest way to do this would probably be to add a full wave rectifier and filter capacitor to your power supply and then to use a TL494 PWM interrupter to switch an SCR or MOSFET that control whether the filament of your tube is grounded or not. Basically, the idea is to build a staccato-like circuit onto a CW VTTC, but to interrupt the semiconductor via a PWM audio signal instead of a 555 timer.

Jimmy Proton says:

where did you get the vacuum tubes? i cant find any as cheap as you got

Aug 16, 2010. 12:41 PM REPLY

gigavolt says:

Aug 29, 2010. 11:44 AM REPLY I got my tubes from ebay, they were $40 for a matched pair from K5SVC. K5SVC is a great seller of all sorts of high quality tubes.

Jimmy Proton says:

well, i was looking for less than that but iv'e decided not to build this one 'cuz it cost to much money

Aug 29, 2010. 6:14 PM REPLY

savka says:
You could find old tv. It is a real treasurechest for vacuum tubes. You can also find HV capacitors in there.

Jan 19, 2011. 2:21 AM REPLY

Jimmy Proton says:

The problem is, I don't know where to get one, but I've always wanted one!

Jan 19, 2011. 12:33 PM REPLY

savka says:
do you have any recicling centre nearby?

Feb 1, 2011. 2:59 AM REPLY

Jimmy Proton says:

yeah but i never get to go

Feb 1, 2011. 7:36 PM REPLY

Xellers says:

Feb 1, 2011. 2:25 PM REPLY Somehow, I doubt that an old TV would contain many useful parts - in a VTTC, one usually pushes all the parts (especially the tube) as far as they go, and this could easily lead to catastrophic failure with an old tube or with other old parts. Given that you can buy a small VTTC-worthy tube like a GU50 for several dollars on ebay, and given that it's probably better than anything you could find in an old TV, I think it's worth the investment. If you're not looking for maximum efficiency and just want to build a small coil that works, I'm sure you could find the rest of the parts you need for very little money.

304TL says:

Jan 12, 2011. 5:24 AM REPLY I would kindly submit that the reason you burned out the first MOT is that the design you copied is fundamentally flawed. Using a larger transformer may make it last a bit longer, but the key problems from the original schematic still persist. Identifying what the problems are, is left as an exercise for the interested reader wishing to copy the design. Never mind that this contraption will instantly kill you, if you have a spark flowing to your hand (as shown in one of the photos) and you then accidentally get the other hand near the oscillator coil or the top of the tubes. But the colors in the photos are pretty (being positive here.)

Xellers says:

Jan 12, 2011. 10:23 AM REPLY OK, I certainly agree with the second part of your comment, but I think you're quite dead if your hands wander in that direction at any point during the "contraption's" operation. As for the first part, can you elaborate? From what I can tell, this "fundamentally flawed" design is what almost any Armstrong Oscillator-based VTTC would use - what's missing? I'm not trying to be defensive here, I just want to improve the design because I think you're right I've already killed another MOT with this thing and I want it to stop!

asustec001 says:
thank very good

Sep 23, 2010. 10:31 PM REPLY

-max- says:
that looks SUPER dangerous to touch!!! did it burn you?

Jun 28, 2010. 1:55 PM REPLY

http://www.instructables.com/id/How-To-Build-A-Vacuum-Tube-Tesla-Coil-VTTC/

electricfan says:
The answer is= IT WILL NOT BURN YOU!!!!!!! iF YOUR CAREFUL!!!

Jul 9, 2010. 8:14 AM REPLY

-max- says:

Jun 29, 2010. 5:07 PM REPLY can you tell me the values of all the parts? I'm planing to make an table top version of this... also, i will tweak it so that is an AM transmitter!

Xellers says:

Jul 2, 2010. 7:17 PM REPLY The values of the parts are all specified within the instructions, and you can visit Steve's site (there's a link) if you need some more information. Also, this *is* a tabletop coil! Regarding the AM transmitter, this is probably not the best way to go about building one, the 811A is better suited for building a linear amplifier or a modulator than it is for making an oscillator. I would use something like a 6146A (or B) tube as an oscillator and a pair of 811A tubes in a 500W RF amplifier for an AM transmitter. If you do build a transmitter, then please post some pictures and tell us how you did it!

-max- says:
also, if you want to answer my question, how to build a table top VTTC (vacuum tube tesla coil your more than welcome!

Jul 3, 2010. 9:22 AM REPLY

-max- says:

Jul 3, 2010. 9:13 AM REPLY it will be a while before i build it as a gather info on it, but i think this schematic is useful... i took your schematic, (the second pic) and took out all the static, moved some components around, and then added a audio transformer and ac-to-dc converter. the third schematic is similar to the first schematic without modification.

savka says:

Feb 23, 2011. 3:33 AM REPLY I have 2 nice new EI-ni PL-519 tubes. It is a penthode rated at 7Kv. I also have new mot. I don't want to use schematic with transformer T3 for audio-modulation, but because I have a penthode I would apply audio-input to some of the grids. What grid should I use? Should I apply audioinput to both tubes, or just one? Jul 3, 2010. 4:19 PM REPLY You can follow the link in step 4 to the complete schematic. The parts are listed in the schematic, as well as in step 5. A cost estimate is also given in step 5. In order to modulate the coil, you need steady DC power supply; in this particular schematic, the oscillator is only active during the positive half cycles of the current provided by the MOT. This means that you are already modulating a 60Hz signal into the coil, and this is reflected by the loud buzzing noise it makes when it is turned on. To modulate audio, you would need a full wave rectifier and a filter capacitor in the power supply (I can already see a half wave rectifier in your second schematic, but this will still cause some hum, use a full wave rectifier). However, if you continued to use the MOT in this configuration, it would destroy the tube almost immediately - you would need to significantly reduce the power supply voltage, which would in turn reduce the spark size. Also, this would add about $50 to the cost of the project because MOTs are relatively easy to come by and you can find one for next to nothing (if you can't find one for free inside of a broken microwave oven), while other high voltage plate transformers are rare nowadays and would probably have to come out of vintage radio gear. (I have also posted this comment an answer to your question)

Xellers says:

-max- says:

Jul 5, 2010. 3:33 PM REPLY i'm now using this schematic but i don't know if it will work. i have many new questions on my question "how to build a table top VTTC (vacuum tube tesla coil)" will this schematic work?

http://www.instructables.com/id/How-To-Build-A-Vacuum-Tube-Tesla-Coil-VTTC/

-max- says:

Jul 4, 2010. 7:39 PM REPLY can you give me some info on the tubes why they will break? and do i have to use a MOT, cant i use another transformer like a BIG wall-wart (wall adapter) or a bunch of batteries?

Xellers says:

Jul 4, 2010. 9:30 PM REPLY 1) Vacuum tubes will arc over, resulting in catastrophic failure and destruction. 2) I'm sorry, but if you do not know why you need to be using a microwave oven transformer, then you probably shouldn't be using one in the first place. I do not want to give you information that could be potentially harmful; the "hobbyist approach" (learning by doing, rather than by understanding) works well in some cases, but I do not believe that it is wise to be building Tesla Coils without some proper foundations in electrical engineering. Find a book or website that explains vacuum tube operation, and then read the article on Steve Ward's site about designing VTTCs.

-max- says:
i just want a safer transformer. don't vacuum tubes work at low voltages? not a lethal 2.5KV @ 100ma+ ?

Jul 6, 2010. 7:00 AM REPLY

Xellers says:

Jul 6, 2010. 8:30 AM REPLY You are correct, many vacuum tubes work with relatively low voltages on their plates. In fact, some types of later "space charge" tubes (like the 12DZ6, for example) were even designed to work with only 12 volts on their plates. Some smaller space charge tubes have been run with only 3 - 6 volts on their plates! However, these types of tubes are usually not capable of any significant power output (most of them can't handle more than a watt or so of output power in class A), usually they were designed for use as RF amplifiers in the first stages of a radio circuit. Some other types of "subminiature" tubes and small 7 pin tubes can work with relatively low voltages of several dozen volts on their plates, but these too suffer from weak power handling abilities. The smallest type of tube that can be used in a VTTC is a strong RF amplifier from a radio receiver, or a weak RF oscillator (or amplifier) from a radio transmitter (when I talk about "strong" and "weak" here, I am talking about how the particular tube compares in terms of plate dissipation power with other similar tubes). The smallest VTTCs can run with only about 200 or so volts on the plates of their tubes, but they only produce sparks a few millimeters long. I'm sure you've already seen this, but this is more or less what you should expect if you plan on building a small VTTC: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dYJ2U0IHJ00 . Another popular tubes for small VTTCs is the PL504. However, the voltages on the plates of even the smallest VTTCs are still lethal. The minimum voltage required to operate a tube like the 811A is only a few hundred volts, but don't even expect it to be able to oscillate.

-max- says:
will a NST work for it?

Jul 8, 2010. 4:47 PM REPLY

Xellers says:
This question has already been answered, and the answer is no, unfortunately, it will not.

Jul 8, 2010. 5:54 PM REPLY

Plasmana says:

Jun 1, 2010. 4:02 PM REPLY I thought people are making VTTC with tubes they have kept from the past and didn't really bother reading about them until now... I am really surprised that manufactures still makes vacuum tubes now days! Now I am interested in making a VTTC as it seems simpler than making a SSTC, :) One question, I read somewhere that 811A tubes can overheat quite quickly when used in VTTC, just how do I tell if they are overheated? I really don't want to melt my brand new pair of 811A's...

Xellers says:

Jun 1, 2010. 4:23 PM REPLY Nowadays, most tubes are manufactured for HiFi audio or for radio transmitters, the 811A falls under the second category, although there are a few good HiFi amps out there that use 811As. One thing you should watch out for are people selling 811As as HiFi tubes, they'll cost you twice as much! In most cases, VTTCs push tubes far outside their safe operating zones, and can only be operated for short periods of time. Right now, my primary RLC is out of tune with my secondary, so this adds to the overheating effect. Determining whether a tube is dying really depends upon which model you are using. Some types of tubes are designed to run with their plates red, others are not. In most cases, you can run your VTTC until the plate becomes orange or yellow, at which point you must immediately turn the coil off to prevent arcing and tube destruction. Also, always use the exact (or slightly under the exact) filament voltage specified, too low and the coil will hardly work (this coil now makes 6" long sparks with the filaments at 6.3 volts and 1.5" long sparks with the filaments at 5 volts). I know it will be tempting, but never run the voltage any higher, that's why I only have one tube now when I started out with two - most filaments can handle many volts more than they are rated for, but the rest of the tube will melt (in my case, the grid melted and is now electrically connected to the filament). Btw, I was trying to use the same CD4046 driver schematic as is contained that PLL SSTC you linked me too, I got everything right, I think, but that CD4046 just wouldn't oscillate.... Good luck!

Plasmana says:
Wow, thanks for this information, I just only started learning about tubes. Also, does the grid glow as well? I will start off my VTTC at 5v just to test to see if everything works then Ill use 6.3v for the filaments.

Jun 3, 2010. 6:23 PM REPLY

electricfan says:

Jun 4, 2010. 2:03 PM REPLY DON'T DO THAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! THAT WILL RUIN THE THORIDE ON THE FILLAMENT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! IT IS BETTER YO RUN THE TUBE SLIGHTLY OVER THE VOLTAGE THAN UNDER IT. i KNOW WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT, I HAVE TALKED TO 10S OF 4HV MENBERS, ANTUQUE RADIOS MEMBERS. SO NEVER USE 5 VOLTS FOR A 6.3 VOLT FILLAMENT thanks, Paul

http://www.instructables.com/id/How-To-Build-A-Vacuum-Tube-Tesla-Coil-VTTC/

Plasmana says:

Jun 4, 2010. 5:22 PM REPLY Really? From all the information I have gathered about tubes, the filaments will be fine (and the tube) if you power them under 6.3v, however unlike the plate and grid, the filament is extremely sensitive to over voltage.. Show me the link to the thread about operating tubes under voltage, I'd like to know more :)

Xellers says:

Jun 4, 2010. 6:47 PM REPLY He is, in fact, correct. It is best to run the filaments about 0.1 volts above their ratings. It's better to burn out than to rust away! Watch the beginning of this video when he powers the coil up: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iw7jjp5gC58.

Plasmana says:

Jun 18, 2010. 8:59 AM REPLY Okay, my tubes and HV caps came in! :) Though it will take a while to build as I am a it of an perfectionist, I am going to try build a power supply for my tubes. Also, what sort of cooling fans should I use? I got loads of assorted fans to use. Jun 5, 2010. 9:45 AM REPLY Okay, I read up more info about tube's filaments, there is quite a bit of info about people decreasing the filament's rated voltage by approximately 0.2v and they still got similar performance but longer tube life. It seems only dr. spark is talking about increasing the filament voltage by 0.1v. I think the reason he does that is to make the filament more 'resistant' to the positive ions, am I right? I am not sure which one last the longest, have the filaments burn or rust away? This VTTC project is turning out to me more complicated than I thought! lol

Plasmana says:

electricfan says:

Jun 5, 2010. 1:05 PM REPLY well it doesn't realy burn or rust. this is what happens. more voltage- less filament life, less voltage- more loss of thoride. the tube will last longer if you use a LITTLE more voltage because you arn't going to run the vttc for long, mabey some 10s of hours in all

Xellers says:

Jun 3, 2010. 6:35 PM REPLY No, the grid should not glow. You only want thermionic emissions from the filament; the grid will start to act like a second filament if it is heated that high (if it is heated until it glows). It might look like the grid is glowing because the filaments are very bright in these types of thorated radio tube filaments (to increase emissions). =P

teslasparky says:

Apr 26, 2010. 6:25 PM REPLY i have a oil burner transformer it about 10 kv and 23ma if i was going to use this transformer what tube should i use, or is the transformer useless in this application

wondertech says:

May 15, 2010. 7:16 PM REPLY You could reduce the input voltage to 1/5 or 1/10 of line voltage with a low voltage transformer of adequate wattage. 10KV at 23ma is 230VA (volt-amps). The oil burner transformer is current limited to 23ma AFAIK so you will get 1KV at 23ma (23VA) at 12VAC in to it, and 2KV at 23ma (46VA) at 24VAC in. If the transformer is a constant voltage transformer, then I don't think this will work (see below). Note that 1KV is usually an RMS rating and the PEAK voltage is 1.41 times as high, 1.4KV. This is true of all non-CVT type transformer ratings-keep this in mind when selecting your tube. This will be a low power source for your project. I believe that the max current output will also drop with the reduced input proportionately, so you may only get 2.3ma and 4.6ma respectively, and about 2.3 - 4.6 Watts for your project (ie, less than 5 Watts). I have not looked inside an oil burner transformer, but I assume the ballast is integral to the transformer construction. This is what limits the short-circuit current. If it is a separate ballast coil, then you could eliminate it from the circuit, allowing the full 23ma to be drawn without overloading the transformer. Neon sign transformers could also be driven for a lower output this way. Their ballast is always part of the transformer construction, AFAIK, so available current could also be a problem. CVT's (Constant Voltage Transformer), also called saturable core transformers (I believe), are NOT designed to be powered by less than line (rated) voltage as they are constructed to maintain the exact same output voltage regardless of a wide range of input voltage. They are also current limited. Their output waveform is a clipped sinewave or squarewave like shape. MOT are this type of transformer. CVT can be identified by the magnetic shunt core plugs pressed into the frame between the primary and the secondary coil-forms and by the use of an oil-filled AC resonator capacitor connected to the secondary coil section. This cap is matched to the transformer for proper operation. If it is incorrect, the transformer will not saturate properly and output will drop off and be unregulated AFAIK. The plugs and the capacitor tune the transformer for output voltage and current limiting. I do not know anything about attempting to modify these values of these transformers, or if it can be done. I think the coils would have to be rewound, to accomplish a different operating voltage, or input/output voltage ratio. KL

http://www.instructables.com/id/How-To-Build-A-Vacuum-Tube-Tesla-Coil-VTTC/

Xellers says:

Apr 26, 2010. 7:49 PM REPLY Unfortunately, most tubes that are suitable for VTTC use are designed to have only 1 to 2 kV on their plates at currents somewhat higher than those supplied by your transformer. While some transmitting tubes were designed to work with as high as 30kV on their plates, they are not accessible to the average experimenter. I'm sure that if you convinced your local 100kW radio station to lend you one of their RF amplifier tubes (which costs several thousand dollars), then you might have a shot. Otherwise, I would use a more common microwave oven transformer with a more standard tube. (Here's what I mean when I say an "RF amplifier tube" - www.g8wrb.org/data/Machlett_Laboratories/ML-6696A.pdf - the thing can just barely take 10kV on its plate before arcing, and weighs a few dozen pounds!)

electricfan says:
The 803 are realy big-9 in tall! The 2 I have cost only $40. My final vttc will look wooded and a little steampunk. It will in produce 16 in sparks! The tubes- from 1943 and 41 one NOS one unknown Pics

May 15, 2010. 11:32 AM REPLY

electricfan says:

Apr 20, 2010. 5:07 PM REPLY in the plan are all grounds commen ? all the tubes and transformers are grounded so doesn't that te primary and seccondary share ground correct me if im wrong. thanks paul

electricfan says:
does the size of a secondary mater in termes of the spark length? thanks Paul

Apr 9, 2010. 2:16 PM REPLY

Xellers says:

Apr 10, 2010. 12:29 PM REPLY You ask a very good question - the secondary coil is one of the most difficult things to get right when it comes to building a Tesla Coil. Generally, secondary diameter increases as power increases, and secondary length is then selected to match the resonant frequency of the primary oscillator. Deepfriedneon has a good guide on selecting secondary sizes, I would read their Tesla Coil construction guide. For example, if I am building a 550W coil, they would suggest using a 4 inch diameter coil that is 20 inches in length. I would then calculate the resonant frequency of the primary oscillator and the number of turns and diameter of the wire used to wind the secondary coil.

electricfan says:

Apr 10, 2010. 4:28 PM REPLY so if i use a small coil on a big power coil, it would not work as well as a big coil? also i am using a 8 inch tall 1 inch wide coil, its taken me 3 weeks to wind because i'm using around 36-40 awg wire. i hate winding coils so would you sell me one? thanks you one of the best members i know Paul

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http://www.instructables.com/id/How-To-Build-A-Vacuum-Tube-Tesla-Coil-VTTC/