JACKSON V AEG LIVE July 24

th
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Alimorad Farshchian
(MJ Doctor)
Ms. Bina: your honor, our intention at this point is to call Mr. Briggs. We have another
witness who is coming at 10:00 a.m. tomorrow; so rather than break up his testimony, I think we
should show some of the testimony by video, since its 3:05.
The court: okay.
Mr. Panish: can we take a break?

The court: all right. 3:15. which means probably 3:20, but, you know.
17-minute recess taken.
The following proceedings were held in open court, outside the presence of the jurors.
Discussion held off the record.
Mr. Panish: the estate doesn't determine whats relevant for the trial admissibility.
The court: true. But it's too late now to be making an objection. You had the opportunity to
make an objection, and it's -- it's long past that.
Mr. Panish: no, it isn't. She just handed these exhibits -- if the exhibit is to refer to in the
transcript, Im not having a problem. I'm saying exhibits -- because these are every medical
record. I don't have a right to object to medical records that are not relevant or discussed with
the doctor in a deposition? Is that what you're saying?
Mr. Boyle: this one doesn't even have a deposition stamp on it.
Mr. Panish: Im saying if the doctor is questioned about the deposition, and you've ruled on
that, that's fine. But you said did --
The court: that's not what we're talking about.
Mr. Panish: you said I missed the time. Im talking about documents that aren't discussed
with the doctor that are not relevant. So we're just trying to say since the estate said, they all
come into evidence?

The court: what documents are you trying to put in? The testimony, we've already gone
through that. What documents are you talking about?
Ms. Cahan: these are the medical records Dr. Farshchian has of his treatment of Michael
Jackson that were produced and discussed at his deposition or referenced in portions of the
testimony that is going to be played. And it's a single document, each is a single document.
And so there's been no precedent in this case whatsoever, nor should there be, of removing
portions of documents for relevance reasons. If they have some specific concern, Id be happy to
address that. But it's -- there's no --
Mr. Panish: this is the first medical records --
Ms. Cahan: when we discussed the stipulation --
Mr. Panish: -- that have been offered through videotape, so I don't know where they're
getting precedent. What I suggest is we do the video with the doctor with the exhibits. I don't
know why you jumped on me for that, your honor, the time was long gone.
The court: well, it is -- it is --
Mr. Panish: Im saying documents that she just drops on us that she wants to get in that are
not discussed with the physician that you've already ruled on, I haven't waived anything.
The court: let's just get to the documents. What is it about the documents that you're
objecting to?
Mr. Boyle: we just were handed them. One of them does not have a Farshchian bates stamp on
it. This one does not have a Farshchian bates stamp on it, nor a "highly confidential" stamp,
which would indicate that it actually did go through the estate, the one that says deposition
exhibit number 2 on it. So I would like some time to figure out why. And then the second one

doesn't have any deposition sticker on it, so I don't know that the second one was discussed in the
deposition.
Ms. Cahan: your honor, it's the same set of records. Your honor, what happened was he
produced it at his deposition before it had been bates stamped and reviewed by the estate. That
was with the consent of the estate. It was discussed in his deposition. Thats the one that's
exhibit 12707 that has a deposition stamp on it. Then the exact same set of records went through
the estate, got bates stamped, and were marked highly confidential pursuant to the agreement
with the estate. There was no redaction, and that is the second document. So it's two copies of
the same set of records, just with different -- one was the unstamped, unreviewed by the estate
copy used in the deposition; the other was after the estate reviewed it, made no redactions or
changes.
The court: but the problem is just because the estate --
Mr. Panish: let's just play the deposition; the exhibits that are referred to, we'll all know;
and when the deposition -- before -- she just wants to move them all in. She doesn't have to do
that right this second. Whatever foundation is laid with the doctor, youve already ruled on that,
so those can be played. That's fine. I'm saying if there are other exhibits that are not
Ms. Cahan: there's only one exhibit. It's one set of medical records.
Mr. Panish: just because it's a set of medical records, if you don't question him about it, and
its not related to some issue in this case, it's not relevant in the case. That's what Im trying to
say. You just don't blanketly say these are all your records, yes, they all go into evidence. That's
not how it works.
Ms. Cahan: this is one document that contains his medical records. He authenticated it as his
records of his treatment of Michael Jackson at the deposition. It's discussed at length and will be
showing when we play the deposition on a split screen, the portions of records he's talking about.
We wanted to move them into evidence. Last time we dealt with this, your honor, when we were
talking about the stipulation, it was certain -- there was a stipulation agreed to by everyone that
these would be presumptively admissible unless there was some specific issue. This is the first
time we've heard relevance.

Mr. Panish: they're authentic. Okay? If he is asked about it at the deposition, fine, they
can put it up. I'm not saying that, and Im not saying it's not authentic. But some records, they
have nothing to do with this case, not admissible. Whatever she asked him in the deposition, she
can show it, there's no objection to it.
Ms. Cahan: it's one document, so I don't know what the problem is.
Mr. Boyle: it's not just one document; it's all the medical records.
Ms. Cahan: but it's a document --
The court: I don't think it matters. Whatever is being shown to the jury -- just because it
was introduced at the deposition doesn't make it all relevant for purposes of trial. Now,
presumably plaintiffs you would have, you know, objected; but I don't know if you knew all that
was going to be --
Mr. Boyle: we were just handed it.
Mr. Panish: any question that she asked in the deposition with a specific record that's
already been run through the court, we're okay with that. The problem is just haphazardly just
putting all medical records in because someone identified them. That's all my issue is. What
Ive suggested is we play the deposition, she can put up whatever she's questioning him about,
we'll see what's left and whether theres appropriate relevancy or other objections.
The court: during the deposition, can you just present the portion of the document that he's
referring to?
Ms. Cahan: that's -- we're showing the pages hes talking about as he's talking about them.

Mr. Panish: that's okay.

Ms. Cahan: I just don't want to lose the ability to finish playing this video today; so if we could
deal with it afterwards, that would be fine with me, but I don't think it's appropriate -- we've
never broken up e-mail strings into the relevant and not relevant e-mails and made them
partially admissible on that basis.
Mr. Panish: medical records are not e-mails, number 1.
Ms. Cahan: and Im not hearing any specific objection as to what is wrong with these records.
But I think we're all in agreement we can go ahead and play the video showing the pages that are
being discussed and the testimony that's being played and then address it.
Mr. Panish: fine. No objection. That's fine. You know, when you just say, okay, they're
all in, thats different. No problem showing what she asked him. We don't have a problem with
that. We had our time to object. If we didn't, or you overruled us, fine. No problem. But let's
just play the deposition and see where we're at, which documents he discusses. I don't know
specifically.
The court: there's something here about an insect sting?
Ms. Cahan: yes.
Mr. Panish: let's just play it and then well see. I think we're getting in a big beef about
nothing.
The court: okay. Bring them in. I believe we're going to play a deposition.

Ms. Cahan: yes. Your honor, defendants call as their next witness, by video, Dr. Alimorad
Farshchian. That's
A. -l-i-m-o-r-a-d, f-a-r-s-h-c-h-i-a-n.
The court: thank you.
Excerpts of the videotaped deposition of Alimorad Farshchian were played.
Q. The first thing I'm going to ask you to do a lot of this is for the sake of the record --
could you please give us your full name?
A. My full name is Alimorad Farshchian.
Q. Let me take and mark as Exhibit 2 what I believe you're referencing, which are Mr. Jackson's
medical records that you gave us here today.
MR. PUTNAM: If I can have this marked as Exhibit 2 and entered into the record and then
provided it to the deponent.
Q. I'm going to before we go through how you met Mr. Jackson and the history of your
treatment of Mr. Jackson, I'm going to first get a little bit of your medical background.
A. Okay.
Q. So starting with that, where did you go to undergrad school?

A. Rutgers University.
Q. And what year did you graduate?
A. '83.
Q. And what kind of degree did you receive?
A. I was doing premed.
Q. Premed. And then did you go to medical school?
A. Yes.
Q. And where did you go to medical school?
A. I went to medical school at Spartan Health University.
Q. And where is that?
A. Saint Lucia.
Q. Saint Lucia.

A. Abroad. I've been there.

Q. And what year did you graduate?
A. '87.
Q. And what degree did you receive?
A. It was an MD,
Q. And then after medical school, what did you do next?
A. I did research.
Q. Where did you do research?
A. At SUNY, State University of New York.
Q. And which SUNY were you at?
A. In Brooklyn.
Q. And what type of research were you doing?
A. I was doing cardiac research.

Q. And did you start doing that research at SUNY Brooklyn in 1987?
A. '88.
Q. And for how long did you do that?
A. Three to four years.
Q. And after that, what did you do next? I
A. I did a year of residency in internal medicine, and then I did three years of residency in family
medicine, and then I went to private practice.
Q. Okay. So let's break that down for a second. Where was your one year residency in internal
medicine?
A. In Tennessee. Chattanooga, Tennessee.
Q. And what was the name of the institution?
A. University of Tennessee, College of Medicine, Chattanooga.
Q. And then you had a threeyear residency in family practice - excuse me, family medical
practice. Where was that?

A. At Philadelphia.
Q. And what was the name of the institution?
A. The University of Pennsylvania at Chestnut Hill Hospital, Chestnut Hill.
Q. And then you went into private practice, and was that approximately in 1996?
A. 97.
Q. And where did you enter private practice?
A. I started private practice in Maui, Hawaii. And then I moved on to the state of Florida in
1999, and in Miami Beach.
Q. And what type of private practice were you doing?
A. I do regenerative medicine.
Q. For those of us who are not doctors, what does that mean?
A. Regenerative medicine deals with restoring regenerating cells to their normal function or to
close to normal function.
Q. And are you Board certified? Can you be Board certified for this?

A. There is no Board certification.

Q. Are you Board certified in anything else?
A. No.
Q. Is there any kind of certification that can occur for this?
A. For orthopedic regenerative? No. It's a fairly new field.
Q. Are you currently employed?
A. Selfemployed.
Q. Yes. - And is that a continuation of your private practice?
A. Yes.
Q. And is that still in regenerative medicine?
A. Yes.
Q. And are you what is the name of your private practice?
A. The Center for Regenerative Medicine.

Q. And for how long has that been the name of your practice?
A. I believe since 2001/2002.
Q. Are there any other doctors in this practice?
A. No.
Q. Do you have an official title?
A. Medical director.
Q. And is your office located here in southern Florida?
A. Yes.
Q. So starting at the beginning, Dr. Farshohian, were you ever Mr. Michael Jackson's physician?
A. Yes.
Q. And did you treat him?
A. Yes.

Q. And commencing approximately what year did you treat Mr. Jackson?
A. In April of 2001.
Q. Did the time come when you no longer treated Mr. Jackson?
A. Yes.
Q. And when did that come?
A. 2003.
Q. So approximately two to three years you were Mr. Jackson's physician?
A. I was one of his doctors.
Q. How did you come to meet Mr. Jackson?
A. Well, he was down here doing his last record, and he was having an issue with his ankle. He
was getting ready for a concert that he was supposed to do in Madison Square Garden, and he
had he had to rehearse for that concert. And he had an ankle issue that was more like a
sprained ankle, that wasn't healing because he had to continuously dance on it. So he looked into
doing orthopedic regenerative medicine. That's what I do. And that's why he came to us.
Q. And do you know how he learned about you?
A. No, I don't know.

Q. And how did you first learn that Mr. Jackson was interested in meeting with you?
A. Made an appointment, just like anybody else.
Q. Dr. Farshchian, could you tell us what this is exactly, this Exhibit 2?
A. These are the records that I kept during Mr. Jackson's visits to our office.
Q. So let's start with this Bal Harbour meeting, okay? In looking at this now, having read what
was written by Mr. Cascio, do you have any better recollection as to when that happened in terms
of your meeting Mr. Jackson? Did this happen towards the beginning of your treatment of Mr.
Jackson?
A. I think it happened toward sometime in June, May/June of 2001.
Q. Okay. So if you -
A. That would be my best recollection.
Q. Okay. So if you first met with Mr. Jackson in April of 2001, this would be a couple of
months later?
A. (Nods head affirmatively)
Q. And so this meeting that occurred at the Bal Harbour Hotel over two days two days are
mentioned here -- this happened after you had initially treated Mr. Jackson in your offices?

A. Yes.
Q. And the conversation that you just mentioned, where Mr. Jackson indicated that he wanted to
get off the drugs, did that take place at the hotel?
A. It might have.
Q. It might have. Are you uncertain, as we sit here today, where that took place?
A. Yes.
MS. FARSHCHIAN: If you don't remember.
THE WITNESS: It was a long time ago.
BY MR. PUTNAM:
Q. Yeah, important to know, unless she's going to --
A. It could have been in my office. It could have started at my office. We talked about that a lot.
Q. You did. And that was going to be my follow-up question. So this was an ongoing discussion
you had with Mr. Jackson?
A. A few times. I'm sure we spoke a few

Q. Do you recall the first time that he said to you that he wanted to clean himself up from drugs?
A. I don't recall that.
Q. In your treatment of Mr. Jackson, is there any specific drugs that he was trying to get off of?
A. Demerol
Q. Did Mr. Jackson tell you he had a problem with Demerol?
A. Yes
Q. And did he indicate to you how that problem manifested itself?
A. You mean what it would do to him?
Q. Uh-huh
A. Well, he would not be able to -- his main concern was his kids. Always his kids.
"Everything I do for my kids. All the money I make is for my kids. I spend more time with my
kids." It was more spending time.
Q. Did Mr. Jackson did you ever come to have an understanding as to how long Mr.
Jackson had had a Demerol problem at this point?

A. I was not at that point, I really was not, like, a follower of Mr. Jackson, his music or his
history or, you know, looking in the papers or magazines, all that. I really didn't know. Most
people that read the papers knew that he's got some sort of issue with medications. At that point,
to me, he was just a regular patient and all that. But as I got to know him, and, you know, let's
say, for example, visit him at the at the hotel or read a little bit into him, whether it was
Internet and so on, then I realized, yes, I mean, this has been an ongoing problem.
Q. Did Mr. Jackson tell you that he was addicted to Demerol?
A. Maybe not in those certain words.
Q. What did he say to you?
A. I don't remember what his exact words.
Q. Did you come to have an understanding that he was addicted to Demerol?
A. Yes.
Q. And did you come to have an understanding that he had been addicted to Demerol for some
time?
A. Yes.
Q. Did Mr. Jackson seek treatment for that addiction from you?

A. Yes. Eventually, he did.

Q. Eventually.
A. Yes.
Q. And did you treat him for his addiction to Demerol?
A. Yes.
Q. And how did you treat him for that addiction?
A. Okay. To treat Michael for that problem, I felt that because he travels quite a bit, he needs
something that would be with him constantly. So I chose the Naltrexone implant. It normally
lasts within 60 to 90 days in the body. Its action is it inhibits the effects of narcotics.
Q. Uhhuh.
A. So let's say you do take the narcotic, but if you're wearing that, the narcotic would not work
on you, whether it's Demerol or Oxycontin, so on. So you take it again, and it won't work on you.
So eventually it's not causing you the feeling of euphoria, so you stop doing the drug. That's the
concept behind that.
Q. And where do you well, did the time come where you, in fact, implanted this in Mr.
Jackson?
A. Yes.

Q. And did you explain to Mr. Jackson that you were going to implant this?
A. Yes, of course.
Q. And did you implant it more than once?
A. Yes.
Q. And how many times, if you can recall, did you have the implant? We'll go through the pages
if it makes it easier.
A. I have to look at it to tell you. Maybe four, five times.
Q. Why don't we do that?
A. Right now?
Q. Yeah, to make it easier. We'll go through this, and then I'll come back. I'm sorry if it makes it
a little out of order. We'll try to do the best we can. So moving back to Exhibit 2.
A. For the best for me to figure this out, can I borrow the original?
Q. What we will do, sir, is we can pick up on July 14th, 2002.
A. Or you can go backwards. I was going to go backwards to figure it out.

Q. All right.
A. We did that on 7/2/2003 one time. That's one time. April, twice. January, three times. I'm
looking for procedure notes.
Q. Three times so far, right?
A. Four times. On 11/26. And one time originally.
Q. Had you ever done this before?
A. only one other time.
Q. You had. How did you learn about it?
A. Well, when you're doing your training in family medicine, and that's what I did with my
original training, you're exposed to you have to do several months of rotation in psychiatry,
so you get exposed to the kind of treatments that are used for narcotic addiction. And the main
treatment is taking the oral form of Naltrexone. So that's the common knowledge. The implant
is also back then, it was more popular. They are not doing it as much anymore.
Q. Why is that?
A. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. They are doing I think it comes in injectable forms now that
lasts a little less time. But carrying an implant in you, it's always you know, you carry risk
of getting infections. So that could be one of the reasons that they're not doing it so much. And
that was one thing that we had with Michael, you know, because he did have his skin would

get an allergy when you put that thing in there, and he wasn't very comfortable wearing it. But it
worked.
Q. And where do you put it?
A. You normally put it right in the abdominal area, like usually lower than the bellybutton. And
usually to the right side of it or left side.
Q. And does it have to be removed after about 90 days or does it break down?
A. Usually you remove it. Usually you remove it.
Q. Okay. So why don't we continue with the history starting with page 3 of Exhibit 2.
A. Exhibit 2, page 3. What date is it?
Q. The last date we discussed was May 7th, 2001.
A. Yes.
Q. And now we're a little over a year later, July 14th, 2002.
A. Yes.
Q. It says, "MJJ," and then it says, "Fed Ex'd him some info about Buprenex," BUPR
ENEX, "detox program."

A. Yes.
Q. And you had noted earlier that sometime in late spring or late summer of 2001, you had
you started to have conversations with Mr. Jackson about getting him off drugs, correct?
A. What year?
Q. The year before this.
A. Yes. . The spring before this. . Yes. .
Q. And then -- .
A. It was what we always talked about, yes.
Q. So by this point, you have you've sent him some information about Buprenex, for that
reason?
A. Yes.
Q. And tell me, what is Buprenex?
A. Buprenex is a type of - it falls in the opiate group, but it has a special property that - it also
is an antagonist. It's an aqonist and antagonist. Agonist means that it works for you; antagonist
means it's opposite. So it blocks the receptors, the opiate receptors in a way. So, per se, your
body would not go through withdrawal, and you're not really getting euphoria. And you take

that, as you are detoxing, until you get something like Naltrexone, and then you take it every day.
Naltrexone inhibits the effects of opiates.
Q. Was the idea to take the Buprenex instead of the Demerol?
A. Yes. That was the idea at that time.
Q. And was it something that you discussed with Mr. Jackson?
A. Discussed and sent him the papers twice. He read it and looked at it, and finally he was
convinced or agreed to do it, yes.
Q. And was this the first form of detox that Mr. Jackson did with you?
A. This particular one, actually I don't believe we ended up doing it. Even the Buprenex one,
even though we talked about it, I believe that he looked into it through another physician, who
kind of talked him out of the Buprenex.
Q. Do you know what physician that was?
A. (Shakes head negatively)
Q. We already talked about the implants, which we'll get to in the chronology in a moment.
Were the implants the first form of detox program that you did with Mr. Jackson?
A. Well, yes, it was the first step.

Q. And if I would ask you, have you ever heard of a Dr. Van Valin?
A. No.
Q. I'm wondering if that was the physician? Okay. Let's go on. Next it says, "7/21/O2: MJJ."
Then it says, "Sent patient some information on Buprenex quick detox program again, since did
not get any response from him and his intention to intervene." Does that mean a week later you
sent him some more stuff?
A. Yes, I sent it to him again, because at a time, or in general, most of the time, it was very
difficult to get in touch with Mr. Jackson himself, meaning that you had to go through body
guards, you had to go through his secretary. It was very difficult. So I wasn't sure if he received
it, because he did not ~ he did not reply. He did not call me back and say "okay." So I just
wanted to make sure that he got it.
Q. A time came where you were seeing Mr. Jackson on a somewhat regular basis in person,
correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And you would travel with him sometimes?
A. Yes. What happened to him, and it's going to come up later right here, that that when he
had a problem with he had some sort of infection in his leg. And it just happened that, you
know, he was going to Germany at the same time. So we traveled with him.
Q. And did a time come also where you would be at Neverland with him?

A. Well, there was, like, a weekend I went there, and there was a couple of other weekends
possibly that I went there.
Q. And Christmas?
A. Christmas for sure. One Christmas.
Q. Okay. Moving on to the next entry, which is page 4 of Exhibit 2, it says, "10/20/02: Michael
Joseph Jackson. Phone call: Patient states he needs some help, him, with his addiction problem.
He does not wish to go to an outpatient rehab facility despite the pressure from family. Discussed
with him option of Naltrexone," NALTREXONE, "implant and its success
rate. He stated he will think about it and let me know." Do you recall that phone call?
A. Yes, I do.
Q. And did Mr. Jackson tell you that he didn't want to go to an outpatient rehab facility?
A. Yes. He was really adamant about that. He really did not want to go because of privacy
reasons and paparazzi.
Q. And it says here "despite the pressure from his family." Did Mr. Jackson talk to you about
pressure from his family?
A. Well, I knew that the mother wanted him to to yes, yes.
Q. What did his mom want him to do?

A. Wanted him to go I knew the family does not want him to do you know, they were
kind of annoyed with drugs and everything. So they wanted him to stop the drugs.
Q. And did he tell you that?
A. I think he did, yes.
Q. So this is in October of 2002. The next entry says, "11/4/2002," and again, initially it has
it talks about HR, 64; BP, 110 over --
A. Heart rate, blood pressure. His weight was a little bit under, 128. So that's the procedure,
basically. You use some Betadine to clean the area, then you use a small blade and you cut
through the skin. And right around the subcutaneous tissues, you insert this palate implant, chip,
however you want to call it.
Q. How big is it?
A. Maybe about
Q. About that big? . A
A. About oneandahalf centimeters.
Q. And is it is it thin?
A. Yes.

Q. Okay. And so if I understand it correctly, then on --

A. It's cylindrical.
Q. Oh, really? So if I understand it correctly, then on November 4th, 2002, you inserted the
Naltrexone implant into Mr. Jackson?
A. Yes.
Q. Where did that occur?
A. At the office.
Q. Is that here in Miami?
A. Yes.
Q. So this was an inoffice procedure?
A. Yes. These are inoffice, outpatient procedures.
Q. And was an anesthetic used for this procedure?
A. Just local. Lidocaine, 1 percent.

Q. Okay. So he wasn't put under for the procedure?

A. No, he wasn't.
Q. And then it says, "Followup in two days," correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And then we have 11/6/02. It says, "Phone call. States he is doing well. Tolerating some
minimal agitation, anxiety, some insomnia, a lot of yawning, minimal sweating. He states he will
be seeing his primary care and attending group therapy and seeing a psychologist as early as
tomorrow." Now, do you recall where did you have that conversation, that follow-up
conversation with Mr. Jackson by telephone?
A. Yes. Phone call.
Q. And do you recall, was Mr. Jackson --
A. He was supposed here he was supposed to come back and see us a couple of days later. But
again, he flew back. He had to go. You've got to realize that this is a 10-hour production, coming
from Neverland all the way here to Miami, between going to the airport, flying. And he would
make the trip to come and get so if I was making the phone call, he probably wasn't able to
come that day.
Q. And that's what I was going to ask you, if you could recall whether he was staying in Miami
afterwards or whether he had already gone back to Neverland.
A. I'm not sure here, because I he did spend some time in Miami, but I'm not sure if it was
here or later.

Q. Okay. And but these notes reflect your recollection of what Mr. Jackson said to you at that
time?
A. Yes.
Q. And do you recall what he said about seeing a psychologist?
A. Yes. He wanted to. You know, it's just not enough to put the implant in. It just needs to be
reinforced. You've got to do the 12-step program, which is basically you rehearse these steps,
better by yourself than with somebody else.
Q. Did you provide any recommendations to Mr. Jackson as to doctors or psychologists he could
see?
A. Not really. He says he has somebody back home that follows him.
Q. Did you communicate in any way with any physician of Mr. Jackson's at that time? Any
other physician?
A. Not that I recall. Mr. Jackson was very private on everything.
Q. And do you recall what he said about experiencing some insomnia?
A. Yes. He had --at the time he had some experience of insomnia. He was seeing a herbologist
back then who would help him.

Q. when you say he was helping him, he was helping him with his insomnia?
A. I believe so.
Q. Do you remember what Mr. Jackson told you about his insomnia?
A. He said he always had a difficult time sleeping.
Q. Did he ever ask you to treat him for his insomnia?
A. No.
Q. Did you ever come to believe that his insomnia was as a result of his drug addiction?
A. No, I didn't believe that.
Q. Did you believe that they were related in any measure?
A. It could have been.
Q. How could it have been?
A. I mean, anything in medicine is possible. Thats why I'm saying it could have been. To me, his
insomnia was caused possibly I mean, these are all theories after the fact. But possibly,
when you he had a you have this area in your -- inside of your nose called the turbinates,
and if you remove the turbinates, it's possible that you produce what they call empty nose
syndrome and producing insomnia. To me, that was the cause of it. '

Q. Because portions of his nose were now missing?

A. Was taken out.
Q. Interesting. How do you spell that, the thing that you said that you removed?
A. Turbinate, TURBINATE. The next entry is two days later, which is
11/8/O2. We're still on page 4. It says, "Phone call: He states he had a good night's sleep. He
states he is being followed by a personal physician at home." Do you see that?
A. Yes.
Q. And again, you don't know who that personal physician was?
A. (Shakes head negatively)
Q. But this does reflect that two days later you had a telephone call with Mr. Jackson?
A. (Nods head affirmatively.)
Q. Does this reflect your notes from that conversation?
A. Yes, of course.

Q. Doctor, as you know, we were going through your notes, which is Exhibit 2, and where we
left off, I think we're now to page 6. Doctor, is it fair to say -- you had noted a number of times
that you had met with Mr. Jackson that are not indicated in the notes here. So is it fair to say that
not all of your meetings with Mr. Jackson are here?
A. Yes.
Q. But this does reflect the times that you took notes after various individual meetings?
A. This reflects the times that I saw Michael Jackson as a patient.
Q. Thank you. And there are other times where you saw Mr. Jackson in a more personal vein.
Those are not reflected here?
A. Exactly.
Q. Now, the next entry is three days later,. 11/26/02, and it begins with "Patient returns, his
ankle wound is better, but he has taken the implant out by a physician at home. Wishes to do
another implant." Do you remember what this represents?
A. Yes, I do. I do. He had he saw a doctor locally. Whether he was home or whether he was
in New York, I don't know where. And the doctor didnt know what this is. And it was itching
him again. It looks red over there. Again, this was an area that because it was itching him a lot,
he would continuously scratch it. So the doctor didn't know what it is, so he took it out. All
right? But Michael wanted it really wanted this to do this, so he came back again to get
the procedure done.
Q. Just to make sure I understand that, you had gone to West Germany. You had treated him
over several days. A point came where you returned to the States?

A. Yes.
Q. And upon your return to the States, you went your separate ways?
A. Yes.
Q. And while you were in that time period, when you were not with Mr. Jackson, he saw
another physician who removed the implant that you had put in?
A. Yes.
Q. And as of 11/26, Mr. Jackson came back to you and said that he had had the implant
removed, but he would like another?
A. (Nods head affirmatively)
Q. Did he say the name of that physician?
A. No, he didnt say.
Q. Did he say why he wanted another implant put in?
A. No. I mean, we both knew why he wanted the implant. That was established already. I mean, I
don't remember. Maybe he did. Maybe he did say that.
Q. And then it goes on to talk -notes the procedure. Then we have sterile conditions, incision,
and the Naltrexone, which is N-A-L-T-R-E-X-O-N-E, the implant, was again inserted?

A. Yeah.
Q. So this is a second time you implanted?
A. Yes.

Q. Do you recall where the second procedure occurred?
A. Again, I believe it was done in my office.
Q. Okay. Going to the next entry, on page 9 which is the 11/27/02 entry, it says, "N/V/D."
A. It means no Nausea, Vomiting or Diarrhea.
Q. All right. Then we have Vitals again. Then "Abdomen: Implant well placed." What does that
mean?
A. Again, you look at the implant. You make sure it's not infected. You make sure it's not red
around you make sure nothing no oozing coming out. So every time you're going to
check it, every time I saw him, you know, it is just simple: You pull up your shirt, you look at it.
Q. And then a little further down in that entry, it says, "A/P." What does that mean?
A. It says, "Assessment and Plan." What did he think is going on; what his plans would be.

Q. And the first entry there is, "1. Naltrexone," N-A-L-T-R-E-X-O-N-E" Implant: Continue
current TX. Patient sober X 20 days." What does that mean?
A. That means he's sober times 20 days.
Q. Which means since the first implant, its been about 20 days of sobriety?
A. Yes.
Q. What does "Current TX" mean?
A. Current treatment. Continue current treatment.
Q. Then two days later we have a followup, which is 11/29/O2, also on page 9. It says, "Feels
very good, sleeping well. No sign of opiate withdrawal." Now, what does that entry mean, if you
recall?
A. Well, it means, you know, you're concerned about somebody who you worry still about
any kind of withdrawal, any kind of anxiety. He's doing well at this point. At this point, I was
very comfortable, the way he was doing.
Q. Now and what signs of opiate withdrawal would you have been looking for?
A. At this point, really not much, because you're talking about 20, 30 days later.
Q. Had you treated others for for in a detox program before Mr. Jackson?

A. Yes.
Q. was this a large part of your practice?
A. No, not at all. I mean, this was I've treated sporadically. I mean, my practice is
completely orthopedic regenerative medicine, and we deal with arthritis, sports injuries, you
know, what Mr. Jackson came to us initially.
Q. Initially for. But there were others that you treated for drug withdrawal?
A. Yes, of course. Yes.
Q. You continue on, you have your vitals, and then, "ABD: Narcan implant wellplaced." Now,
what's a Narcan implant?
A. I think these are synonymous.
Q. Okay. So just another name for the same implant?
A. Yeah. Yeah.
Q. Then you go on to talk about the wound. Once again, you say, "Narcan implant: Continue
current TX, continue current therapy. Patient sober times 20 days," correct? Then the next page,
page 10, we have 12/20/2: "Feels very good, sleeping well. No sign of opiate withdrawal. Vitals
continue." Again, you have the Narcan implant at its place. "Wound looks clean. Healing." And
you have the APs are the same as before, except "Patient sober, now going over him." that
continue, which you add here: the 12 steps with. What does that mean?

A. Well, the 12step program is any anybody, whether it's alcohol, whether it's any type of
medicine that you try to stop, it's essentially, this 12step program you it really relies on
God. Hey, God, help me go through this. God, let me stop. Each of the steps, really, is somewhat
connected asking for God to give you power to stop.
Q. I'm sorry.
A. So we went over this with him, with Michael. I gave him, you know, something, an imprint
from the Internet that these are the 12 steps. Please do it every day, memorize it, and go on with
it.
Q. Now, this was on the 2nd, and the procedure itself, that happened on the 26th. Were you
continuing to see him personally during these days?
A. These days, yes.
Q. Okay. And do you know, was he where was he staying in Miami at the time, if you
know?
A. I don't remember exactly where he was staying, but I think there was a period of time he was
afraid of paparazzi and all of that, and I wanted to really supervise him. So he stayed with us for
a few days, at my house.
Q. So there was a period of time where he stayed with you?
A. Yes.
Q. Was that on more than one occasion?

A. Maybe two occasions.

Q. Okay. And when he stayed with you, did the children stay with you as well?
A. One time.
Q. One time. And did any other people stay with you that were here because of Mr. Jackson?
A. No. I believe they got them in the hotel. His bodyguards.
Q. And Im not going to ask you the exact address, but what city was this in?
A. This is in North Miami Beach, Bay Harbor Island. Bay Harbor Island.
Q. Do you know Grace Rwaramba?
A. Yes.
Q. Was Grace staying with you at the time?
A. I don't remember if Grace was staying in a hotel or she was staying yes, she might have
stayed at the house.
Q. But she was here during one of those times?

A. Yes.
Q. And was this may sound like an odd question unless it's right: Various reports have
indicated that Mr. Jackson at the time was staying in your converted garage; is that correct?
THE WITNESS: Where do these various reports come from?
BY MR. PUTNAM:
Q. On the Internet; it's in Mr. Cascio's book.
A. You mean yeah, what we did yes, yes. We did convert our garage to a guest room.
Q. Is that where they were staying?
A. That was Michael's room.
Q. And so you can recall, as we sit here today, that on at least two occasions he stayed with you
during this time?
A. Yes.
Q. And did you ever treat him at your house?
A. No.

Q. Now, on the next entry, which is on the same page, it's 12/4/02. There we have just "no sign
of opiate withdrawal." Vitals. Again you indicate that the Narcan implant at its place. Wound
looking clean. You continue to to note the APs. You say, "Narcan implant: Continue current
PX therapy. UJ, exercise, 12-step program with him." What does that mean?
A. I think the UJ is a misspelling.
Q. A typo?
A. A typo.
Q. So basically I exercised the 12step.
Q. What do you mean by exercising the 12step program?
A. Again, just like what we were doing: He would keep one note in his hand, I keep one note in
my hand, and we would read it together.
Q. All right. The next entry comes on the next page, 11. It's nearly two months later. It's
11/20/O3 Michael Jackson. Do you see the entry? The top of page 11 sir.
A. 1/20.
Q. 1/20/O3, yes. It begins with "Patient returns for another implant, been sober for more than
two months, states has been following the 12step program." Do you have an understanding as
to what you meant here?
A. I beg your pardon? _

Q. What did you mean when you wrote that?

A. The patient returns for another implant. He's been sober for two months. And he says that he
was doing it doing the 12-step program.
Q. And so this would be the third implant that you put in Mr. Jackson at this point?
A. Yes.
Q. And again, this would be a procedure that you had performed here in Miami, in your office?
A. Yes
Q. When you put in this third implant on the 20th, you took out the second implant?
A. Yes, I should have said "taken out."
Q. And then we it goes on, and it notes there, under the AP: "Narcan implant: Continue
current TX," which is therapy. "Patient sober two months." Correct?
A. Yes.
Q. So at this point, we've had three implants. He's been sober for two months, in your
estimation?

A. Yes.
Q. Then the next entry is 4/3/O3. So a little over two months later, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. It says, "Patient returns for another implant, been sober for almost 6 months, states been
following the 12step program at least once a week with private social worker at home." Is that
what Mr. Jackson told you?
A. Yes.
Q. Did he tell you who the social worker was?
A. No, he didn't tell me that.
Q. And when you said here that he had been sober for almost 6 months, you meant he hadn't
been using Demerol?
A. Yes.
Q. You werent familiar with any other narcotics that he was trying to detox from, are you?
A. No.
Q. And --

A. But this medicine would stop any type of narcotics.

Q. Any opiate?
A. Any opiate.
Q. You then go on to note, as you had previously under the procedural note, you summarize
your insertion of another Naltrexone implant, is that correct?
A. Yes. That was in April.
Q. On this instance, it says, "The implant on the right side, using sterile condition, was removed
and steri strip was placed." So if I understand correctly, are you going from side to side?
A. Yes, going from side to side, to give a break to each side.
Q. So this would now be the fourth implant; is that correct?
A. Yes.
Q. The next entry is July 2nd, '03, 7/2/03, which is, one second, about three months after the
previous procedure, correct?
A. Yes.

Q. And there it says, "The patient returns for another implant, been sober for almost 9 months,
states been good with the 12step program at home." Does this represent the meeting that you
had with Mr. Jackson on the 2nd?
A. Yes.
Q. And at that point, he told you that he had been doing well with the 12 step program?
A. Yes.
Q. And he had been sober from Demerol for about 9 months?
A. Yes.
Q. At this point you put in another implant, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And this is now the fifth implant?
A. Yes. And once again, this goes to the left side, so you're switching sides again?
A. (Nods head affirmatively)
Q. At the end of that entry, under the AP there's a Number 3, which is somewhat different than
the prior. It says, "Patient can follow up with local physician at this point."

A. Okay. This was the time that I felt he had enough. And, you know, he's been he's been
sober and he accomplished. So he can follow up with his doctor.
Q. So was this the end of your professional relationship with Mr. Jackson?
A. (Nods head affirmatively)
Q. Did you continue to see him on a personal basis?
A. Yes.
Q. For about how long did you continue to see him on a personal basis?
A. The last time I saw Mr. Jackson was the day that he was arrested. The day after two days
after, in Vegas. The weekend after he was arrested. That was the last time.
Q. And is this the arrest that took place in California?
A. Yes.
Q. And so a couple of days after that, you saw Mr. Jackson in Vegas?
A. Yes.
Q. How did it come to be that you saw Mr. Jackson in Vegas at that time?

A. You mean --
Q. Did you run into him?
A. No.
Q. How was it that you saw him?
A. No. No. He we spoke about it, and I flew up to see him, to see how he's doing.
Q. How was he doing? How was he doing?
A. Not too good.
Q. Not too good. Had his drug use started again?
A. No.
Q. Was there any time after you saw Mr. Jackson the last time in your professional capacity on
July 2nd, 2003, was there any time after that point that you and Mr. Jackson discussed in any
way his drug use?
A. No
Q. Do you recall Mr. Jackson ever speaking with you about any attempt at interventions?

A. Maybe.
Q. Maybe. What, as you sit here today, can you recall about such a conversation?
A. I don't know if I recall this from Michael himself, but what I do recall is that there was an
attempt at intervention by the family, but, again, Michael was very difficult to get to, with
bodyguards. So he might have it might have not happened.
Q. Okay. And do you know if this was that intervention was in the time period we're talking
about, which is the spring of 2002?
A. I don't know. It might have been afterwards. Maybe before it. I'm not sure.
Q. Okay. Were you familiar with whether Mr. Jackson ever took part in an inpatient
rehabilitation program?
A. No, Im not aware of that.
Q. Are you aware of Mr. Jackson ever participating in an outpatient rehabilitation program other
than your treatment of Mr. Jackson?
A. No, I'm not.
Q. And when Mr. Jackson first discussed with you trying to get off the Demerol, did he say why
he wanted to do that?

A. Yes. He put me under the impression because of his third child, Blanket, was just born, and
that was why he wanted to what he phrased, a monkey on his back, he wanted to just not
deal with it any more.
Q. So he used the phrase "monkey on his back" for his Demerol addiction?
A. Yes.
Q. And did he ever give you any ideas as to why he believed he had become addicted to
Demerol?
A. No.
Q. Did he ever discuss with you why he had initially started taking Demerol?
A. No. I don't know.
Q. Okay. In the time period where you were treating him, and as you'll recall from your medical
notes, there's a point at which, towards the end of when you were treating him, that you note that
he's now been clean for about nine months?
A. Yes.
Q. In the entire time you were treating him for his Demerol addiction, did any point come where
he stopped the treatment and started using again? To the extent that you know.
A. I don't know. I don't know.

Q. Did you ever come to have a suspicion that he might have?

A. I might have.
Q. Okay. And did you have that suspicion more than once during your treatment of Mr.
Jackson?
A. No.
Q. Were you aware of Mr. Jackson abusing any other form of drug?
A. No
A. Does that include alcohol?
A. Not include alcohol.
Q. Did Mr. Jackson abuse alcohol, to your knowledge?
A. I didn't see him drunk or abusing it, per se.
Q. I'm now going to ask you about some of the other doctors, to see if you because you
had indicated you knew he was seeing other doctors, correct?
A. In California, yes.

Q. And I only say that because she doesn't get the nods.
A. Sure.
Q. So I'm going to ask you the various names to see if you've heard of them, okay? Have you
ever a heard of Dr. William Barnett Van Valin?
A. No.
Q. Before Mr. Jackson's death, had you ever heard of Dr. Conrad Murray? .
A. No.
Q. Dr. Arnold Klein?
A. Yes, I heard it.
Q. And how had you heard of Dr. Arnold Klein?
A. Through the media.
Q. Okay. So you never heard about Mr. Klein from Mr. Jackson?
A. I don't think so.

Q. What about Mr. Steven Hoefflin?

A. No, I don't know Hoefflin.
Q. What about Dr. Allen Metzger?
A. Yes, I've heard of him being Michael's physician in LA
Q. And did you hear that from Michael?
A. Yes.
Q. Did you ever speak to Dr. Metzger?
A. I might have. I don't I don't really recall. But I might have, yes.
Q. Can you recall speaking to him at least once?
A. Yes.
Q. Can you recall what you spoke about?
A. We spoke about the implants, how it should be taken care of, what's supposed to what
should he do if he comes to visit him there, how should it look. Things like that.

Q. Have you ever met Mrs. Katherine Jackson?

A. Yes.
Q. And when was the last time that you spoke to her?
A. It must have been at the funeral. Very briefly.
Q. And prior to the funeral, when was the last time you had spoken to her before that?
A. Maybe on that Christmas. On the Christmas.
Q. That's the 2002 Christmas at Neverland?
A. Yes.
Q. And besides those two meetings, did you ever have any other occasion to meet Mrs. Jackson?
A. Yes. I believe I had a phone call with her.
Q. And when was the phone call?
A. While Michael was getting those treatments, I think she wanted to know about it, what's going
on.

Q. And so was she asking you about the implants?

A. Yes.
Q. And did she call you?
A. I think Michael called and put her on the phone.
Q. And did you explain to Mrs. Jackson that you were treating Michael for his addiction to
Demerol?
A. Yes.
Q. And did you explain how the implants would work?
A. Yes.
Q. Did you have can you remember any other aspect of that conversation with Mrs.
Jackson?
A. Not really.
Q. When was the last time that you talked with Michael Jackson?
A. Telephonewise? Telephonewise, sometime in the winter of 2004

BY MS. FARRELL:
So you had no personal knowledge of his health condition in 2009, correct?
A. No.
Q. Did you ever see Michael Jackson ingest himself with any drugs?
A. Never.
Q. Did you ever hear him tell you that he had injected himself with any drugs?
A. No.
A. Was it your impression in 2002, when you with Michael Jackson and when you first started
talking about any problems he had with drugs, that he wanted. to get better?
A. Yes.
Q. And was it your impression that he wanted to get better for the sake of his kids?
A. Yes.
Q. And would it be fair to say that his kids numberone priority?

A. Yes.
Q. And we talked earlier you talked with Mr. Putnam earlier about a conversation you had
with Katherine Jackson regarding the implants correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And did you understand that she was willing to do anything she could do to help him get
better?
A. Yes. Yes. Absolutely.
Q. WAs there anything that she said specifically that gave you that impression?
A. I don't recall, really, our conversation. But she was happy with this particular procedure.
And she was happy that - the concept of it, of course, is difficult to explain, but once she
understood it, I believe she was happy. One occasion in particular, I remember, that was in
Neverland, Michael did show the implant to his mother. Just his mother was there. She was
very happy.
End.
Ms. Cahan: that concludes the video testimony of Dr. Farshchian. For the record, the exhibit
that was identified during the deposition as deposition exhibit 2 is trial exhibit number 12707.
Mr. Boyle: certain parts of that were shown.

The court: right. Okay. So we'll have to go over what certain parts, but we don't have to
do that now. Okay. 9:45 tomorrow. Have a good night.
(The following proceedings were held in open court, outside the presence of the jurors)
Ms. Cahan: your honor, we're going to meet and confer as to what they may have relevance
objections to see if we can minimize the amount of your honors time that we need to take up
with this.
The court: that's a good idea. There was something else -- oh, I know what I was going to
discuss with you. Hold on. This is a phone that was confiscated from this person who was
sitting in the audience. He took a picture of our jurors.
Mr. Panish: this is the one that happened from the door?
The court: it happened outside.
Mr. Panish: is this recently?
The court: today. I've told the deputy not to return the phone yet to him. Show the
driver's license. I recognize him. He's been in the audience. This is when they were outside of
the courtroom, so banning him from the courtroom isnt going to help with that. I can ban him
from the floor, although that would require deputy supervision. I don't know how much -- we
might have to ban him from the building entirely. I don't know how were going to be able to
monitor that, but we cant have that. That's unacceptable.
Mr. Putnam: as you know, your honor, it happened once before.

The court: it's happened before; and my understanding from Deputy Ruiz, this person has
been present and given an order about not taking photos. He's been handed a handout that
discusses whats permissible and not permissible, so --
Mr. Putnam: is he the guy in the suspenders?
The bailiff: yes.
Ms. Cahan: and he approaches us, your honor, and speaks to us despite the restriction.
The bailiff: he's the one that wanted to talk to you regarding the rules when we posted it the
first time.
Ms. Bina: he's one of the bloggers, your honor.
Mr. Putnam: the one who at the very beginning of the trial indicated that he was a
blogger, not a normal news source, and he tries to conduct interviews and thing of that nature.
He's approached me, he's tried to do interviews, and he approaches them. I don't know what
they've all talked about. If it's the suspenders guys with the bright shirts, he's here every day.
The court: I don't think I can tell him not to talk to you. I don't think there's any order about
that.
Mr. Putnam: Im saying we know who he is.
Mr. Panish: if it's the same guy with the -- he wears like the reporter's hat?

Ms. Bina: is there any way to tell from the phone whether he published that photo in any
way, sent it anywhere?
The bailiff: we can tell him to log on to it.
Mr. Panish: it's got a code.
Ms. Bina: Im just worried it might have been sent to twitter or something.
The court: can we look at it or is it code-protected now? I saw it before it was code-
protected, he showed it to me. He showed me --
Mr. Panish: maybe you should ask for the code and see -- maybe you should ask him --
let's put him on the stand, put him under oath, and say, "did you -- did you disseminate this
photograph to anyone?" I mean, I think that's legitimate. Bring him in, put him on the stand, and
swear him in. I'll question him.
The court: and if he says yes, then what?
Mr. Panish: then you've got an issue, because you --
The court: well, I have an issue now. He violated an order.
Mr. Panish: it's not as bad if he didn't -- Im not the judge, but I think there -- may be some
statutes dealing with disseminating a juror photograph different from your order. Now, I know
he's -- your issue with the order, I think, was clear; and nobody would dispute that nobody is
supposed to be taking photographs, let alone bringing cameras in the courtroom, or whatever
these are. So that's an issue. But if he disseminated it, we've got a bigger problem.

Mr. Putnam: what I would suggest, like a couple of other issues that we've addressed
previously on this, what we'll do is we can go and look and see what we might find and discuss
and be able to talk with your honor very briefly with your honor in chambers before you start.
Mr. Panish: I think you should ask him now, before -- you know, if there's something that
could be stopped --
The court: let me ask you, is the statute youre referring to criminal? Is it a criminal
statute? Because I can't question him on that without an attorney, so Im just --
Mr. Panish: give him his long form Miranda right now and see if he waives it.
Ms. Bina: if there's any question he might have committed a crime, we probably shouldn't be
questioning him.
The court: I don't know if it's a criminal statute counsel is referring to or not.
Mr. Putnam: that's why I proposed that we might look.
Mr. Panish: I think the deputy can advise him, Wed like to ask you questions. If you
don't want to answer, you have a right to have an attorney --" he knows how to do that. He can
advise him that; and if hes willing to waive that, come in and answer the questions. What Im
concerned about, he could maybe stop whatever has happened, potentially, you know, whether
he, maybe, sent it to another e-mail address and someone else is going to send it out, maybe.
Mr. Boyle: did you see him taking it and grab it right away?

The bailiff: yeah. My partner was outside with him. She's actually on the picture herself. So
she caught him right before he possibly could have sent it to somebody. But we can see through
the phone if he actually sent it to somebody.
Mr. Boyle: you got it pretty fast, though.
Mr. Panish: well, you don't know that he didnt take one earlier and disseminate it. But I
think you should find out now before --
The court: I think it's a little dicey to do that. But if he's not in custody, he can't be
Mirandize. But if I order him up here, he doesnt feel like he could leave; but you can go out and
question him, he's free to leave if he wants to leave. You can go out and ask him if he's
disseminated it or not.
Mr. Panish: I would like to know.
The court: what about the code?
The bailiff: the question I want to know from you, is he bound from the courtroom at all, or the
courthouse?
The court: I can't do that yet. I've got to talk to judge Buckley about that.
Mr. Putnam: we will look at these other things, your honor, to assist.
The court: I can ban him from the courtroom; but anywhere else, I probably need to talk --
the

The bailiff: so right now he's not allowed inside here or the overflow?
The court: okay. Overflow, too. But definitely this courtroom.
Mr. Panish: well, I think you're going to have to make findings on the order. I don't think
you can ban him from the court facility. This courtroom, yes. Courthouse is a different issue.
The court: and that's why I want to talk to Judge Buckley.
The court: but, anyway, you can ask him if hell give you -- voluntarily give you the code.
Mr. Panish: and if he sent it to anyone.
The court: and also whether he sent it to anyone. Any other questions?
Mr. Putnam: I just want to know if he sent it to anybody.
The bailiff: so if he says yes or no -- but you want me to specifically tell him he cannot come
back?
The court: into this courtroom, correct.
Mr. Panish: but you're going to keep his phone, correct?
The court: I am keeping the phone because -- the bailiff: or the floor?

The court: right now, just the courtroom. See if he'll voluntarily give you his phone number
so if we have to contact him, return his phone to him, we can do that. I don't know if -- does it
display his phone number?
Mr. Panish: it would be hard to call him on that phone if we had it.
Ms. Bina: maybe he has another phone.
Mr. Panish: get his attorney's name.
The bailiff: so Im going to just keep it?
Mr. Panish: yeah, you keep it.
Proceedings adjourned to Thursday July 25, 2013, at 9:45 a.m.