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ML12052A108
ML12052A108
ML12052A108
or otherwise reviewed for accuracy by participants or the NRC. It may contain typographical mistakes or other transcription errors.
Title:
Docket Number:
(n/a)
Location:
(telephone conversations)
Date:
NRC-944
Pages 1-457
NEAL R. GROSS AND CO., INC. Court Reporters and Transcribers 1323 Rhode Island Avenue, N.W. Washington, D.C. 20005 (202) 234-4433
2 3 4 5
WEDNESDAY
7 8 6 9 10 11 12 13 1 15 16
17
MARCH 16,
2011
18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25.
NEAL R.GROSS
COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS
14 3 OALnc ICl AkIn A%/X N W
2 (CONFERENCE CALL INITIATED) 2 3 4 DAN Executive Team. DORMAN: You're talking to the
about
*(phonetic):
Yes,
this
is
fl%
6 7
8
Director of the Executive Team. How are you doing? Tony also has asked me to give you a call three turbines to make that are available. the purchases We need to them
and airlift
DAN
DORMAN:
Yes,
we
have
written
identified
DAN DORMAN:
Okay.
purchased or does USAID need to purchase them? I have not had any
about purchasing.
They are
just
looking
NEALR.GROSS
COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 -www.nealrgross.com
(202) 234-4433
was any discussion as far as money changing hands. was just getting-4 f transport, there has got Well, if it is
a military
to be a mission assignment
Yes,
and USAID is
going
E
equipment --
There's
assignment
for
the
IC 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
Deputy, this is
for MILAIR.
just a list,
go ahead and get that started. Is there a point of contact there where I
can have someone call from the military to get weight and dims and the location to pick up? MALE PARTICIPANT: (Pause.) MALE PARTICIPANT: Hang on a second.
Okay,m uh-hun. I'm going to. give you a is embedded with USAID I
Yes,
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who is
okay.
So, the phone number is
MALE PARTICIPANT:
MALE PARTICIPANT:
--
MALE PARTICIPANT: 14 F miniOkay. MALE PARTICIPANT: 11 17 12 18 16C 13 to Jeff Colwaltick (phonetic), Washington. Okay. And he should be able And that would get you who is NRC embedded
C ( C
19 14
20 15 16 17? 18 19 20C 21 22 23 24 25 Okay, that specs. * Pat Electric, is
MALE PARTICIPANT:
to connect you with Pat Long to get those specs. And Pat Long is that correct? MALE Long is PARTICIPANT: with USAID Our here, understanding but he has is the with General
Oh,
All right.
Thanks.
NEALR.GROSS
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6 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 2 (phonetic). That's not consistent with the list that going to smaller b
with --
about these GE turbines. MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: (inaudible), Yes. And, you know, after
I mean,
I mean we are talking 200 tons here. C5 them over here. the airport.
They'll probably come into Yokota. And, then, the question I mean, is, what are we
heavy lifters;
we've
got to make sure the roads are good. I mean, did GE and TEPCO talk about minimum
equipment,
thinking,
you
know,
you know,
a couple of RHR
(202) 2344433
7 1 2 3 portables, MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: Right. Right. We were looking at
positive (inaudible,
possibly "displacement
compressors") 6 7 8 9 1
1
railroad engines? MALE PARTICIPANT: trying to figure out, Actually, Hey right, for sir. Well, that's what we're
wait one, please. that's a hard number, I mean, you got 200 tons, that from
12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 2 25
these things?
the source? MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE hard number PARTICIPANT: the size of (inaudible). Yes, these that's a pretty And,
about
things.
you know,
basically,
And that's a pretty massive engine. MALE PARTICIPANT: the nuclear power I know. plant Are or are they they
thinking
about
thinking about supplying power without power in MALE about of. that. Because, that region? PARTICIPANT:
to the people
that are
Well, I
I'm
not
sure
That's
hadn't
thought
apparently,
NEAL R.GROSS
COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com
The AID folks are telling me that the sir, I need to sir. go and talk to the
actually,
Ambassador.
I apologize,
Okay.
Sorry.
NEAL R.GROSS
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9 1
2 (CONFERENCE CALL INITIATED) MALE PARTICIPANT: Hey, how you doing?
3 4 5 6 7-
Okay. Good,
update
for
910
12
m*
12-
14
15
mmu
17
18-
19-U---21
22
23
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1~
3 4 5 6
7
--
MALE
PARTICIPANT:
Okay.
don't
know
though. I'm
that
Well,
say
just
trying
have
they
8 9 10 1 12 13 14 15 16 17
watched TEPCO executives say that the Unit 2 wet well was no longer intact, that it was. So, and by the afternoon they said
conflicting information from those folks for a while. You know, if I don't doubt you. And, I mean,
chips.
18***
20 21
Itm
2223
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Ml
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I agree with that. we've got to go.
LIN
15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
M -N -
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NEAL R. GROSS
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care of that for you. MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: AMY: Hello. Hello. Thanks, You bet. Jim. Take care.
7
8 9 1 11 12 13 1 1 1 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 So, I'm the
Amy.
This is
Director
here
them should have arrived from Heathrow at Norita about five hours ago. AMY: Correct. I have heard from them.
the seven that were on that flight are confirmed And they do have my phone and I told them
So,
that they'll
NEALR, GROSS
COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1202)2.34-4433 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. WASHINGTON. D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrqross.com
15 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 2 2 when they (inaudible, AMY: here to convene? possibly "convene together")? sorry, when they get
Arrange time, Is
DAN DORMAN:
would like to get on the phone with them. AMY: will be a little the list there's quickly. here. interest Absolutely. Absolutely. hold on. Now it
between Norita Airport and back. yet that he's en route, So, waiting for is I
guess
that right?
DAN DORMAN:
Amy,
like you to do for us then. AMY: DAN Okay. DORMAN: Once Chuck is checked into bit, with
Chuck and the team members in your offices, can talk to them by phone. AMY: Okay. NEAL R.GROSS
(202) 234-4433 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701
so that we
www nealrgross.com
16
1
2 for us,
DAN DORMAN:
So,
if
that would be really helpful. AMY: Sure. Absolutely. And give us a little Chuck you then, has landed establish and a bit of he's time in for
3
4 heads-up Tokyo, 7 8 9 1 11 12 13 14
1
maybe,
then, and,
could
that meeting,
and ready to receive his call. AMY: information? Definitely. Can I get your contact but just in case.
It's
DAN DORMAN:
816 --
AMY:
816.
--
DAN DORMAN:
5100.
AMY: DAN
Officer and,
ask to be connected
a better wouldn't
of when that
anticipate
he'll
DORMAN:
NEAL R. GROSS
COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005.-3701
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17 five o'clock maybe Tokyo time we could have that phone 2 3 as well, 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 1 16 17 18 19
20
call? AMY: Exactly. That's what I was thinking a little bit of leeway
which is
But let me get a better idea. Can I also-email you to confirm? Would
that work?
DAN DORMAN: ET07
--
Okay,
me give you my BlackBerry number and email as well. DAN DORMAN: AMY: So, Okay.
21 22 23 2 2 A-S-I-N-K,
DAN DORMAN:
AMY: -I"
Yes.
(202) 234-4433
www.nealrgross.oom
DAN
DORMAN:
So,
asink,
A-S-I-N-K,
ANY: ofda.gov.
Yes,
just
to confirm,
it's
O-F,
as
O-F,
as in Frank,
D-A.gov?
All right.
Thanks.
14
16 17
18
19 20
21
22 23 24
NEAL R.GROSS
COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
19 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 you? CHUCK CASTO: DAN 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 hours ago to E DORMAN: I'm great. We sent a current over a couple on of Dorman. CHUCK CASTO: DAN DORMAN: Hey, Dan, how you doing? How are (CONFERENCE CALL INITIATED) DAN DORMAN: you there, Chuck? CHUCK CASTO: DAN DORMAN: This is Hey, Chuck. Chuck, this is Dan Good afternoon, Chuck. Are
10
one-pager at
NRC'S
understanding Daiichi
of
conditions
Fukushima Have
(inaudible,
you seen that? CHUCK CASTO: were just meeting withW gotten to that yet. DAN understanding that. I is DORMAN: still Okay. pretty All much right. Our with to be I haven't seen it yet. We
a moment ago,
but we hadn't
consistent continues
possibly
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22
10 1~ 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 .2 21 22 23 24 25 we have a is ahead. DAN DORMAN: question Okay. that's One of the areas that very important to 4. our The I'm CHUCK CASTO: DAN DORMAN: CHUCK CASTO: Yes. But one of the things that Well, go ahead. No,
--
go
assessment
the current
condition at Unit
looking at an MSNBC blurb right now that says that it involves the outer shell of the containment building. We've been assuming that it pool. And so, involves the fuel in the
root of that fire and any threat that it the fuel in the pool is one important area.
NEAL R.GROSS
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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22
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Yes. One other thing we've gotten, we got a at report Unit 5, from and
one-pager,
the decreasing
level
pressure
was a 47-meter decrease over gives the amount of water of that being
and it
remaining.
weight
decreasing
level
fuel
uncovered about five hours from now at Unit 5. But it also reported diesel that they would be for Unit 6 to
using an operational
generator
Daiichi they had evacuated out 10 kilometers. DAN kilometers is DORMAN: Daiene was evacuated 10
our understanding.
Daiichi,
which is
CHUCK CASTO:
DAN DORMAN:
24 25
NEAL R. GROSS
COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE.. N.W.
22 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 piece, earlier. DAN DORMAN: we had had some were And, then, I guess the other with that Jim all Trapp the
There
workers had been evacuated from the site. understanding they were are is that they remain at the
evacuated
from the
available
with emergency
1 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
that all the staff have been evacuated from the site. We've tempered that a little bit. and the terms of
Those are some of the challenges current things that we're looking at in
information needs. CHUCK CASTO: we can get. Well, we'll get you whatever
You know how information is. DAN DORMAN: CHUCK CASTO: Yes. But who's with you? Is it
just you? DAN DORMAN: first Lewis, brought you up, Chris Miller, Yes. No, it was when we Rob
other
supporting staff in
the room here. Yes, get. NEAL R.GROSS we'll get you whatever As you know, the
COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com
12
from what I've gotten from the Embassy here, who I haven't talked to yet, but,
the Ambassador,
they're worried about the 170,000 Americans That's their primary goal. NEAL R. GROSS
COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
They're here
24
1 2 3 4 5 6 7
to protect them. DAN DORMAN: CHUCK CASTO: you know, think, if Right. And that's their focus. So, I
we're here to support the Ambassador, that's got to be our focus. VIRGILIO: clearly, Yes, when we Chuck, think this about
is our
Marty.
mean, that is
8
9 i 1i 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
as we have outlined what are our objectives right now. And, clearly, the top priority
support to the Ambassador and the U.S. I would say in second the is support for
Government then,
recovery of
these reactors.
third is
gathering
for us,
operating fleet and applicants. CHUCK CASTO: MARTY those terms. CHUCK CASTO: Right. Just to switch subjects a Jim Trapp's request, to get are you being access we to Absolutely. So, Right. about it in
VIRGILIO:
think
try
periodic
meetings. that
conducted
NEAL R.GROSS
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5 6 7 8
1G 11 12 13 14 1 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 NEAL R. GROSS
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Okay.
Does that make any sense? Yes. Chuck, this is Dan, Dan. but let
I'm sorry,
you is
CNN or
11 12
13-*
*-
--
muIU-K
15 16 17 18 19
20
Yes,
and I
think if
you
not
worst-case,
likely outcome
2 22 23 24 25
MALE
PARTICIPANT:
Well,
the
one-pager
the attachment
a couple
ago has a dose projection for the current wind for a dirt fire with a release of half of the spent-fuel
NEAL R. GROSS
COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS
tiq 9,iA I51 ANn AVF NW
28
I
2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2 2 22 23 24 25
pool at Unit 4. But, say the shell as I said, we are seeing reports that of the building is burning, not the
spent-fuel pool. MALE PARTICIPANT: Yes, I think that we've the next -is if kind of
got to project at the next level of event, you know, what we are doing right now okay,
that's got to
then
But
we've
think one or
could keep more stable on our recommendations. DAN DORMAN: last 24 hours pool, and the big Well, items and have I think over the Unit 4
been
that
and there was a period 24 hours ago Tony were telling us that in their Unit
assessment was that we had X vessel material 2. And that was driving us 24 hours ago. CHUCK CASTO: trying to say, you know, just Dan. If Right.
what if fire
assume. that
(phonetic)
that spent-fuel
pool?
What's
there was,
what's
outcome? NEALR.GROSS
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\ Ql.&
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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 that DAN DORMAN: attachment out don't is to If there was, we would which you're what you've got be is, recommending obviously, that a
that
evacuations lot -I
50 miles, that
know
aware
they're -kilometers
about 12 miles.
18
19 20
mmm
21
22 23 24 2 But whatever we can do, just think about
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4
whatever we can do to stabilize our path here. MALE PARTICIPANT: Well, Chuck, at this
CHUCK CASTO:
Right.
--
6
7
MALE PARTICIPANT: what are your needs, doing -CHUCK CASTO: MALE projections. I mean, that you got is, Right.
you know,
based on
8
9
1
11 12 13 14 15 1 17
PARTICIPANT:
--
in
terms
of
those
the other piece of that document you know, looking ahead and
assuming,
PARTICIPANT:
18
19 2C 21 22 23 24 25
CHUCK CASTO:
and
think
that's
think you can go to the Prime Minister or "Look, we don't know if but if you do, you're here is
NEAL R. GROSS
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31 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 11 1 13 1 1 1 17 with you. leave it how hear know, figure whipsaw, they're the outcome." MALE PARTICIPANT: we have given you in And that's what we hope
that piece of paper. Yes. other us Yes, and I don't know when but, and they you I'll
something we're
just
stood
that out.
you know,
but I would rather give the bounding scenario and move to something more
1 2 2 21 22 23 24 CHUCK CASTO:
25
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Yes.
--
PARTICIPANT:
CHUCK CASTO:
I'm sorry
--
I'm sorry,
Oh. is
Yes,
well,
what we
kind of halfway in
between, hearing.
and this may be the same thing that you're We heard at the :111" a
--
KS>
CHUCK CASTO:
Absolutely,
NEAL R.GROSS
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33 1 2 3 work 5 look, with on that and see what the holdup is MALE PARTICIPANT: CHUCK CASTO: the Ambassador Yes. I can there.
"Hey,
this is
of where we're going with the Americans." 7 8 MALE PARTICIPANT: that we sent toe Yes, and we have a We could send it
-document
to you.
Are you --
CHUCK CASTO:
I'll
get it
fromo And
the conference room just as I walked out. get it MALE from 01 PARTICIPANT: Okay. Sounds
good.
And
until
you
te
us
otherwise,
we'll
fl
Yes,
email address. and I think we should room certainly conference all Then, that. you
be stood up with a working conference by morning our time. room So, know, now with eventually,
computers
we'll have
access
to it.
just check. a
There's
couple
NEAL R.GROSS
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34
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 about And this probably ought to send you via latest you Operations a Center status which one is update. have We'll been our send
also
two-pager
which would
titled,
"NRC Talking Points". CHUCK CASTO: MALE dose Okay. We've we've been sent just talking tocon? talking
the
other piece
Chris was
about,
the one-pager on why we nee So, there are four things that I would
11
12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2 21 22 23 24 25
like you to make sure you have -CHUCK CASTO: MALE background. CHUCK CASTO: be, Right, right. And we should Yes, I'll
--
PARTICIPANT:
the group I think coming in we have a conference room. dosimeters. We have TLDs.
soon or is
And the Embassy has been really good about getting us supplies and printers and all that. So,
Good,
good. I'm
Just as an aside,
hours that they've been working. CHUCK CASTO: some crew rest. MALE PARTICIPANT: Yes, yes. Yes, we've got to get them
3
4
6
7 8 9 IC 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
21
CHUCK CASTO:
out for everybody because we can't all start -all flown over here. 24 hours. the team, So,
I've got to figure who I can get crew rest and out people. MARTY VIRGILIO: Yes. I okay? personally want
and cycle in
shift to adjust to be with you. CHUCK CASTO: Okay. to And, you Marty, just in the WHO
case,
know but
can can I
get get
through your
(phonetic),
your
cell,
personal
22
23
CHUCK CASTO:
All right.
---
MARTY VIRGILIO:
24
25
CHUCK CASTO:
Okay.
--
MARTY VIRGILIO:
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36
1
2 3
4
5
6
CHUCK CASTO:
MARTY
Right.
-and I'm here to
VIRGILIO:
7 8 9 10 1i 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 2 25
support you. CHUCK CASTO: Well, and I do want to get a then, get them to the
briefing from Jim and Tony and, hotel, and they can be part of I'm sure I'll
going to take the duplication that in each of that. MALE assume that PARTICIPANT: going to half,
and we'll just work to allow shifts for that we have, something like
the disciplines
Okay. try to
I'm work
going the
to
you're
days,
MALE PARTICIPANT: you would be most effective. CHUCK CASTO: Marty on midnight shift. (Laughter.) NEAL R. GROSS Yes.
Hey,
get
to
put
That's great.
37 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 MARTY VIRGILIO: the alternative. CHUCK CASTO: Yes. I could be there and you That's okay. I recognize
9S
10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2 2 2 23 24 2 helpful. great. CHUCK We'll CASTO: just do And a so, that right would to be the priorities, eventually, MALE PARTICIPANT: CHUCK CASTO: So, Right. I think I got the And we
and I will convey that to the team. I think what we're at thinking least is that
right to the Ops Center from our conference room, we get it stood up. So,
bridge
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38
I
conference room. Yes, hopefully, we are getting information I don't know if we are
2 3 4
out of those meetings that they're having. MALE PARTICIPANT: If you're not, let me
7
8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 don't know
Yes. have
I mean, been
if
you
--
I
any
getting
information out the back door. MALE PARTICIPANT: CHUCK CASTO: No. No. be a if way, if we
That may
information out the back door -MALE PARTICIPANT: CHUCK CASTO: feeding us, and give us CNN. LE PARTICIPANT: Yes a reed. -Yes, yes. and get them they call us than watching
16
17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
from WANO,
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you want to think about having an executive you know, the federal
call with IAEA and INPO and DOE, family plus INPO or WANO, bit. Maybe us closer
and just strategize a little between there the is industry and what
connections knowledge
6 7 8 9 1 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
and
and pool
what
resources there are. MALE PARTICIPANT: door for us today, opened that something
somebody over there to work for you. CHUCK CASTO: a good idea. MALE then, tomorrow
--
PARTICIPANT:
I'll
close
with
CHUCK CASTO:
MALE PARTICIPANT: CHUCK industry could resource and CASTO: out I there
think and
harvest,
rather
than --
mean we're
but the more eyes on the thing that we the experience, you know, tell particularly you the other in Reactor you
from our Mark 1 sources -place, Safety Marty. Course, You know, that 800
and I'll
that NUREG,
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40 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 lengthy, walks models know, I don't know but it if is you all have been dead-on. I mean looking at it follows in and
that or not,
can walk
see all the considerations. And MELCORE, MAAP, all those computer
to do some modeling --
not a hundred.
I'm sorry.
number of
computer models
that
have already
this event for BWR Mark 1 containment. And I read the whole NUREG, on my flight over here. all these events which is quite
down
perfectly.
the Ops Center and people are not we have an instructor for the 800 the Ops Center, that would be
into
then,
in
that
NUREG and those core codes, got codes that will model
molten
www.nealrQrosscom
DOE has been just itching to find a niche here. 3 4 if there's some specific scenario you want INEL
run, just let us know and we can reach out to Pete. CHUCK CASTO: I would just ask for their know, they've that got can all run it the this for of
6 7 8 9 10 1i 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2 2 2 23 24 2
recommendations. science. event, Peach sites. And, out, They that Bottom.
these this
codes event.
have
They
ran
They ran
this
event
for a number
you know,
you may just want to reach to reach out and ask them are based on MELCORE, and I but have
I can't remember all those code names, lot of different ones. Do they
recommendations about the crust that forms and keeping water on it, and keeping the right pH, And, you know, if all that stuff.
core and then you talk about the time for the concrete to disassociate, you know, that NUREG says it's a
And,
of course, the
one of all
and
literally,
you know,
NEAL R.GROSS
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42 1 2 that is -is But, anyhow, I just would highlight that NUREG. Perspectives that
Safety?
this down.
already been thought out. 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 1 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 priority, That's ask do is tell looked at, modeled, So,
everything.
the one thing the NUREG doesn't really to stop it, how to mitigate it,
you how
other than keeping water on it. But the Lab may have some recommendations. MALE PARTICIPANT: the next shift working on that, Lyons. CHUCK CASTO: Yes. Yes. So, I would have Right. So, we'll get
somebody from WANO join us to open up that line. MALE an action PARTICIPANT: Yes, we'll shift, follow up. too. And
INPO
to identify somebody
us out the back door out of those meetings. MALE PARTICIPANT: going to try to get you in CHUCK CASTO: in Yes. Well, first, I'm
and get us
I mean,
you know,
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43 that would be the ideal. MALE PARTICIPANT: sure I can do. Yes, that one I'm not
PARTICIPANT:
The
equipment
is
and
CHUCK CASTO:
MALE PARTICIPANT:
We think they're at the air base CHUCK something. MALE PARTICIPANT: CHUCK CASTO: CASTO:
FERMAC
(phonetic)
or
I'm sorry,
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44
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2Q
2
here.
I'm sorry.
MALE PARTICIPANT: Air Base. CHUCK CASTO: it's Allen, right? MALE PARTICIPANT: CHUCK CASTO: me he's part of, Yes, a Yes,
and it's,
basically --
It's
Allen.
basically, what it
something, need.
I think is
also, our
hooked
when they
flying and
somebody who can analyze that information and help us independently recommendations. MALE PARTICIPANT: know, ideally, your role, it, See, if this is you can why, get you the verify protective action
22 23 24
to endorse Government
activities,
some sort of a pivot point for this. CHUCK CASTO: Right. Right. Yes. See,
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we
need
the
fed and,
family, then,
you
know, in
the
fed I
bringing
WANO.
"INPO".
get the National Labs plugged in. MALE PARTICIPANT: CHUCK CASTO: that's already been Yes. I think, given hate to keep
Particularly, and I
modeled,
but given
that that's
already been
some information. MALE PARTICIPANT: an action item for next shift. CHUCK CASTO: Okay. We'll get, yes, we'll And we'll get that as
MALE PARTICIPANT:
get somebody from INPO to come on over and join you. And that will be the link to the U.S. industry and
1 need to
talk
to you guys
All right.
Before you
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46 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 1 12 13 14 1 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Japan. CHUCK CASTO: MALE Okay. And DTRA is just exactly. but I'm I Defense pumps go, let me make you quickly aware of one other item. CHUCK CASTO: Okay. About 30 hours ago, made available the four
Agency
1200 to 1800 gallons per minute up to 150 psi. about four hours ago,
sitting on the dock waiting for TEPCO to pick them up. So, they're getting a little frustrated.
They just want to know where to take these things. CHUCK CASTO: Where are they at? Where
PARTICIPANT:
thinking
area, but I'm not sure. CHUCK CASTO: MALE Okay. But they're there in
PARTICIPANT:
PARTICIPANT:
waiting for TEPCO to tell them where to take them. CHUCK CASTO: Okay. Well, you know,
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47 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1C 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2 21 22 23 2 2 want WANO Team, I got to need a about that down the road. MALE PARTICIPANT: make you aware of it. CHUCK CASTO: batch point, Yes. a I think they're going batch point. I Yes. I just wanted to
concrete
MALE
PARTICIPANT:
But
the
pumps
we're
thinking can help get water where it's CHUCK CASTO: that. But, yes. Yes. Yes. Yes,
there's
there's things even further down the road there, that we have to start lining up, to start lining that stuff up. MALE PARTICIPANT: The Reactor
Safety
I was just talking to them, and they're starting You know, based on the TMI experience, I mean there was
to brainstorm.
CHUCK CASTO:
MALE PARTICIPANT:
the long-term we
need to start thinking about. CHUCK so CASTO: is And, Exelon Marty, is our the reason I
bad
biggest
BWR
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48 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Reactor We'll that"). CHUCK Safety CASTO: And some the Perspectives after on they works BWRs. for Yes, yes. CHUCK them, CASTO: but Yes, the TMI operator, he of (phonetic), operator, them. and they have ex-TMI operators think George what's working for the guy
And I
his name,
that was -MALE PARTICIPANT: CHUCK no. MALE CASTO: (Inaudible)? Yes. Not Mortensen
they're
And if
we can,
to be the industry conduit, to get, here you more are. And the you know,
through WANO,
people like Exelon plugged into us some recommendations kinds of from them, The
advice,
those
things.
Reactor
Safety
Team,
would
recommend they take a hard look at that NUREG. MALE (inaudible, PARTICIPANT: possibly "get Yes, we'll to do deal that. with
them
and give us
thoughts
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49 MALE PARTICIPANT: 2 3 4 as an action. CHUCK CASTO: Okay. I'm going to go see Okay, we'll take that
this Assistant to the Ambassador and talk with him. MALE PARTICIPANT: CHUCK CASTO: you soon. I'll I'll All right. be talking. I'll call
1
6 7
MALE PARTICIPANT: 9 MALE PARTICIPANT: 1 11 12 13 14 1 what you've got to do. CHUCK CASTO:
All right.
Thank you,
sir.
All righty.
16
17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
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50
I
2 3 4
(CONFERENCE CALL INITIATED) MALE PARTICIPANT: Chuck Casto coming Stand by. up
on the ET conference as the Ops Officer. CHUCK CASTO: I'm here. Hi, Chuck.
Hey, letter
that from
little
10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Chuck, I guess, MALE PARTICIPANT: communication from Naval about that. CHUCK CASTO: So, there's another player, You know, we had some tonight all
Reactors earlier
that we need to get coordinated with. MALE PARTICIPANT: Yes, we have been,
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51 1 2 3 4 you were at the time. the Naval Reactors, You may have been flying. well, one of their ships, But the
Ronald Reagan,
PARTICIPANT:
and,
he throws scan it
quickly, able
and he took it
I wasn't
to look --
head of the Technology Department from Naval Reactors. MALE PARTICIPANT: Okay. We can follow
with that through our liaison team -CHUCK CASTO: MALE more Yes. -is and it find that out a
they're
modeling.
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52
2 3 4
MALE
PARTICIPANT:
Well,
we'll
get
our
liaison team following up on that. CHUCK CASTO: Yes. So, you've got it. Naval Reactors,
MALE PARTICIPANT: 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 2 titled, the CHUCK CASTO: Right. the Office of Naval Reactors, pager that we sent. CHUCK CASTO: Yes.
Chuck,
(inaudible).
MALE PARTICIPANT: and figure that out. CHUCK CASTO: that piece of information, Yes.
So,
and then you'll handle it. Yes. think the letter was was, in you Naval know, the
Department
Reactors,
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53
I
2 3 4
whoever that is. MALE PARTICIPANT: CHUCK CASTO: Okay. Thanks, guys.
the
(inaudible)
6 7
Do you want to (inaudible) for a minute. Have you got a second, Chuck? CHUCK CASTO: Yes, I.do. Okay. Pat (inaudible, possibly
1 1 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 2 23 2 2 Go ahead, "Island").
Go
ahead.
Go ahead.
Did you have anything you wanted to -No. Just, Chuck, we got the
information on what your suggestions were. reference materials we have been using
Incident Response Center for a couple of days. CHUCK CASTO: PAT: NUREG CR-6150. CHUCK CASTO: PAT: we're looking know, for, Yes. I guess
---
Good. the
you that
54
I 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11
12
we could help you with? CHUCK CASTO: would reach out to Yes, that's what I said. those I
models
that they have and get some recommendations Lab about projection on dose. it I'll tell
outcome in a station blackout for this length of time. PAT: CHUCK assume it's Right. CASTO: So, you
--
could
just
about
course
Right.
CASTO: -with the Mark 1
13 14 15 16 1 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
containment.
Now
the
question But, to
is,
you
know,
what
all. other
you've
start
running
some in
they have
they reference
that NUREG.
recommendations
about
what
releases
talking about and how far. PAT: CHUCK Okay. CASTO: Yes, I think what we're of the
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55
1
2 3 4 the Lab.
PAT:
CHUCK CASTO:
They're really smart people there. PAT: TOM: Okay. This is Tom Lyle (phonetic). that GE Hitachi has got an
No.
we would like to get tied into somehow. MALE PARTICIPANT: for you in We've Tokyo. requested a
phone number
And our GE
contact here,
Wilmington
(phonetic),
up and introduce ourselves directly. CHUCK CASTO: Yes, I would love to get
somebody embedded in GE as well. MALE PARTICIPANT: Eva Yes, is they haven't her
(phonetic)
shaking
But the
promised to give us that information. CHUCK CASTO: we're talking to, then. Right. if Marty can call Then, we need to elevate who
I mean,
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56 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18
19 of me.
and see how we can get embedded in would be as good as being in quite as good as EOC, Thank you.
TEPCO,
or wherever,
PARTICIPANT:
Do
you
have
your
PARTICIPANT:
Have
you
got
your
Yes,
but,
for
BlackBerrys
The Embassy is
trying to get
you know,
20 21 22 23 24 25
is
for Amy's BlackBerry. CHUCK CASTO: this point -and what I'll Yes, Amy orI, do is it? I'll because at just call in
What is
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57 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 see if hour, Then, start half. CHUCK CASTO: Okay. So, So, if I'll call
--
So,
maybe, in
Marty,
if
I'll
just
call in
the next hour. MARTY VIRGILIO: Yes, that would be good. because we'll a hour and a
you check in
in an
call you in
13
1 1 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 around ET. that.
--
Allen, to
help be a
me
out
again
there's
going
flight
tomorrow,
that's
seem to know
ET,
Tokyo,
Tokyo and the plant at 9:00 a.m. MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: CHUCK CASTO:
We haven't heard that. We haven't heard that. Well, I'm sitting here
NEALR.GROSS
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talking to --
Allen is
the man
--
ALLEN:
Allen Remick
Allen Remick
they got the green light to go plant at 9:00 a.m. MALE PARTICIPANT:
That's
great.
That's
That is
CHUCK CASTO:
12,
AMS
(phonetic).
1 13 14 1 1 17 18 19 20
21 22
MALE
Right.
Right.
But
MALE PARTICIPANT: we can get that information? CHUCK CASTO: that information in or something?
ALLEN: analysis of it Yes, we
Is
Yes,
Allen,
can
--
we
will
do
an
23 24 2 SITREP?
CHUCK
CASTO:
You're
going
to
give
ALLEN:
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59
1
Yes. to
He's when
going they
3
4 5 6
they're morning,
When
get
data I'll
tomorrow get a
SITREP from him. MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: CHUCK hours, and, then, CASTO: So, Great. Great. Thank you. they'll do it in 15
7 8 9
10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19
up.
sometime in
some analysis. ALLEN: probably be, well, I can't now. CHUCK CASTO: ALLEN: Yes. I'm going to guess it will
I'm sorry,
CHUCK
CASTO:
Sometime
during
the
day
20
21 22 23 24 25
Okay.
I'll
talk to you in
MALE PARTICIPANT:
All right.
MALE
PARTICIPANT:
All
right.
Thanks,
NEAL R.GROSS
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60
you.
11
12
13
1E
18 19
20
21
22
23
24 25
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61
1
2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 calling is with (inaudible) so ago, of the
(CONFERENCE CALL INITIATED) DAN DORMAN: JOHN MONAGER: DAN DORMAN: JOHN MONAGER: DAN DORMAN: JOHN MONAGER: DAN DORMAN: JOHN MONAGER: Hey, John? Yes? I've got the Executive Team. Hey, This is who's this, Dan Dorman. Mike?
Hey, Dan, how you doing? Okay. How are you? Pretty good. all except
Pretty good.
Hey, we all just got over here, for the guy on (inaudible) DAN DORMAN: JOHN from TTT.
MONAGER:
and we've been getting some briefings, land, et cetera. And it's actually
interesting, quite busy. But, with that, I guess the reason we're
they've invited the NRC to go to a meeting at an is eight hour the o'clock and a half, here, a which meeting who is is with the
TEPCO
licensee,
and NISA,
four spent-fuel
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(phonetic) site. 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 and 4, water. there, answer, down, C-H-I one. MALE PARTICIPANT: JOHN MONAGER: Yes. Unit 1 and 2 is boiling MALE PARTICIPANT: JOHN MONAGER: That's Daiichi. Daiichi site, yes, the
I'm sorry --
leveled the structure for the Unit the way down to the approximate the fuels. So, there's no
bottom of
water in
retain water. JOHN MONAGER: Someone et cetera. of course, has And no ability about dropping to retain sand in
talked
To us, is water,
obvious
You know,
there is,
Units of
1, 3,
those had at
1 and
actually
through all
NEALR. GROSS
COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701
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63 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1e 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2 21 22 23 24 2 guess in there so where it is, want is Unit 2, there is a partial hole cut in It's of there it aerial fire the top of the
MONAGER:
fire truck with a nozzle -They have cut the hole explode from hydrogen
like the other two units. MALE from what PARTICIPANT: we've seen, Right, we've right. some And I
seen
things
that we infer that that's on the vertical wall of the building. Let me go back to your original question. I've got some other got John Monager Embassy. half with on folks who came in here. We've the
They've got a meeting in about an hour and a TEPCO what and NISA to do who are the seeking Unit 1 our best 4
advice
for
through
Unit 3 and
64 1 2 3 4 4 are experiencing zirc/water reactions. that the explosion in Unit 4 has left They believe the Unit 4
spent-fuel pool with no ability to retain water. believe that, essentially, the walls of that
They spent-
fuel pool are gone. 6 7 8 MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: Correct. So, they are looking
for our best advice on how to address that situation. They're talking about things like dumping sand on it.
1 1 1 13 14 15 16
17 -is
JOHN military.
MONAGER:
Right.
That's
from
the
Even though we said an hour and a half, probably have to leave here at 7:30. an hour. MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT:
there any immediate --
we
So,
it
gives us
18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 reaction is
MALE
PARTICIPANT: sand or
Well, dirt
my would
immediate be the
dump If
(inaudible).
you confirm the walls are gone and it you've got to cover it up with
The heat,
just going to
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65 1 2 3 4 up. 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2 21 22 23 24 25 there's just that has insulate it. turns sand in I mean I don't know when sand melts and but I don't know if you want the
Well,
research on it
back with you. MALE PARTICIPANT: the different (Inaudible) possible last night for
options
(inaudible). MALE PARTICIPANT: were two options. if Yes, the dirt and sand I mean, instead
And we need to bring those resources to bear if there. Hey, let's go back to they have the
units,
entire getting
potentially
getting sand
the No.
they're all the way down to the side of the fuel pool, right? I mean, |I M it looks like
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66 fuel 2 3 4 talking 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 2 there? MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: JOHN MONAGER: an obvious answer, So, Yes, Yes. you know, boron, yes, I mean it is we're still here. just
--
pools.
So,
don't
think sand's
going
through
that. And my battery's going dead. MALE about PARTICIPANT: Unit 4. Well, The we're ones only can
sand for
other
take water,
recommendation. MALE PARTICIPANT: can get water in them, Yes. I them. mean, if you
Water
and
boron
or
MALE
PARTICIPANT:
Are
you
guys
still
the water,
et cetera. or if it
you know,
you know,
recommendations
to date?
You know,
my understanding that everything we've been doing just information-gathering. And looking through our charter, you know, NEAL R. GROSS
COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701
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67 1 2 3 4
mm
mmmUm
mUm
-
-m
7
81
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-m
-mmm-
NEAL R.GROSS
COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
1ig',>% 9"4A.AA.".%"
WA.RHINr.TON
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2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 II
68
12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24
25
NEAL R.GROSS
COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., NW.
69
2
3
4
M-
M-
5 6
7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 telling a list of interesting, questions,
MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: Right. I mean, what's
K>
these
seem
like
very
elementary
though. MALE PARTICIPANT: things Well, can we give them what could work?
and priority-wise
That's all we want. MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: anything. We'r Okay. Yes. I mean we're not
them to do
e giving
them our
best advice.
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70 1 2 3 4 5 know. JOHN MONAGER: So, guys, we're talking JOHN MONAGER: MALE Right, right. That's about all we
PARTICIPANT:
7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 1 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 2
the meantime,
with the
All right.
All right.
listening --
Because we had seen a report from IAEA that indicated that Unit 5 pool -specific. it it It was we think it's the pool; it wasn't and
inferring
of getting
they're exposing
fuel in Unit 5. And there was some indication in that they they
had an operable diesel generator could use to pump water to Unit 5, any confirmation secondary to,
Unit 6 that
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information on Unit 5,
JOHN MONAGER:
7 8 9 1 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 NEAL R. GROSS
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So,
do we want to rerun
some of the last calculations -MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: a Mr. Roberts Hang on a second. No, go ahead. I just talked to
Okay.
JOHN MONAGER:
which were not necessarily intended to be this is dose or broad points. consequences And or any of their that, is but,
basically, three
dialog.
dialog
around
72
It
the
You're saying they're talking points. MALE PARTICIPANT: Yes. Yes, it seems like the
9
10 11 12 13
trying to be made around that their attention point, restoring what they
focusing that
15 16 1 18 19
offsite
and
particular
29 2
22 23 24 25
MALE PARTICIPANT:
So,
what is
it
they're
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73 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2 21 22 23 24 You know, do for you? JOHN MONAGER: we're trying to I think that's it do the turnover. for now. We're And they sense? JOHN MONAGER: Yes, that makes sense. And we have heard that point, it MALE PARTICIPANT: to bring more resources in MALE To bring more people,
PARTICIPANT: focus
was don't
on restoring
because that's something down the line. four pumps at that we provided
MALE PARTICIPANT:
some of those pumps are (inaudible) -MALE mention (inaudible). have (inaudible). MALE PARTICIPANT: John, what else can we PARTICIPANT: They didn't
going to be working here pretty much 24/7. have another center called the -MALE PARTICIPANT: JOHN MONAGER:
essentially.
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74 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 1 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 going down. MALE PARTICIPANT: Yes, if you could call right now. MALE PARTICIPANT: JOHN MONAGER: We We've got a -do have a land line Tony down person, still or MALE PARTICIPANT: basically. So, we're going to have Correct. It's the
MONAGER:
trying to work through that. MALE PARTICIPANT: JOHN MONAGER: Okay. up now with also. right, we'll talk the
Chuck is
Ambassador going through some items, MALE to you guys later, from us. JOHN MONAGER: No. So, PARTICIPANT: All
guess,
if
you
call back, you're going to call my cell phone? MALE PARTICIPANT: a cell phone? JOHN MONAGER: Yes, we're on a cell phone (Inaudible). You have
the Ops Center on your land line and get hooked up to the executive bridge in about a half an hour, we'll
2 3
4
So,
go right into that for the ET bridge and just keep it going. MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: JOHN Bye-bye. MONAGER: Fine. Great. All right. Thank you. Good enough.
5
6
7
8 9 1 1 121 13 14 1 16 17 18 19 20 21
22
23
24
25
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76
(CONFERENCE CALL INITIATED) 2 3 4 talking MALE PARTICIPANT: points, not intended It to was be intended to be something is on
letterhead
to TEPCO or anything.
And there
a bit Fix
of frustration on the Naval Reactor the problem now, 7 8 9 10 1 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2C 2 22 23 24 25 about thank you very much,
(inaudible). not
(inaudible).
water,
(inaudible),
PARTICIPANT:
know,
but
they
haven't really done anything with the (inaudible). MALE PARTICIPANT: We came down to
MALE PARTICIPANT: produced report at 33 percent and NHK reported NISA with
containment
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77 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12
13 percent
--
33 percent damage was reached? MALE PARTICIPANT: Maybe if term, to we have all of what are they be radically
going
MALE PARTICIPANT:
MALE PARTICIPANT:
Thirty-three percent.
--
fuel
damage
14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24
25
(inaudible, and 4,
possibly
"containment possibly
reached").
Units 3
(inaudible,
"uphold")
the 50 percent
that we've had. MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: Both of them? Both of them
(inaudible) with containment? MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: have is, if they wait No. No? No. (Inaudible).
until
o'clock --
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78 1 2 3 4 5 they've got,
into the air
you know,
--
want to press the issue of (inaudible)? MALE PARTICIPANT: 9 3 and 4 have (inaudible, (Inaudible) "clear from John, reactions
possibly
boiling down,
but they're not in play right now. MALE PARTICIPANT: Well, I wonder if the
uncovered at this point and whether they can get water in there. With the radiation
shields in
MALE PARTICIPANT:
MALE down, I
Well,
when that
these
are
could mean
they are
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79 1 2 3 4 going,. but
--
(inaudible)
PARTICIPANT:
Keep
it
down
to
two,
mean
it's
There's a minimum of 23
23 feet above them four days ago. MALE PARTICIPANT: (Laughter.) MALE PARTICIPANT: it's it's But (inaudible) to be a But they're just Right.
wondering if
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80 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 there is about four, be done? I put water in. MALE PARTICIPANT: covering with dirt. mean I guess Yes, and we're talking can it even
I mean,
that's also
the challenge.
MALE PARTICIPANT: no roof on (inaudible). MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: of equipment can you get in
No, Yes.
this is
4. what kind
I mean,
13
1 1 1 .1 18 19 maybe here.
(inaudible) coming from the pool. MALE PARTICIPANT: level? I think it's down here, It's probably
(inaudible, possibly "at this") MALE PARTICIPANT: Here. The question is, possibly "hand pump')? MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: efficiency in getting a fan in MALE PARTICIPANT: NEAL R.GROSS
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21 22 23 24 25
Yes,
yes.
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6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 2
(inaudible).
(Inaudible,
possibly
"The pump, in
could just get the pump and get one shot") there, you could pump it in. Yes. But it
the hose
MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: days to get the hoses. pumps pump"). need (inaudible,
They
really don't
(Inaudible) they'll pump dirt out of the ground. MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: that. to tell you, the another piece call, is Yes, yes.
we got
from
(inaudible)
they did get the plane up over the air base, have we detectable unable iodine and cesium in to get any
were
quantitative
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82 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 statement up further? then, (inaudible)? MALE PARTICIPANT: Do you want to mark it back to her. And, it with or 100, (inaudible, MALE PARTICIPANT: The air base is
(inaudible). It's 75
but it's
directly west
"you").
Because it's
about the same radius from the plant. And if you need any more specifics on
that, what we've got -MALE running this. MALE PARTICIPANT: (inaudible), hear anything put in So, their the we're going to run (inaudible)? We PARTICIPANT: Okay. We'll start
didn't
about
(inaudible,
possibly
I'm doing the (inaudible). MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: Yes. I'm going to put in a
that we've
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83
2
3 4
MALE
This
(phonetic),
5 6
7
Monager,
sir? sir.
MONAGER (phonetic):
Yes,
8
9 1 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21
22 assessment,
reestablishing a line, and we're just going to keep a line open. MALE PARTICIPANT: JOHN MONAGER: MALE John. JOHN MONAGER: We'll put it Okay. on mute, too. Okay.
PARTICIPANT:
Thanks. we We the
recognize
rad team needs to get (inaudible). In fact, our assessment, our new dose
and --
23 24 25 there?
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84 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 probably you put music. JOHN going to MONAGER: have Yes. up. I think They're we're still it JOHN MONAGER: Yes, we're here. All right. you just I think if did, it's
or whatever
to hang
setting up the phones here. MALE PARTICIPANT: All right. Okay. Okay. So, we'll give
9 1 12 1 13 1 1 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 2
MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: JOHN MONAGER: you guys a buzz back. All right.
All right.
Thank you.
Bye-bye.
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85 (CONFERENCE CALL INITIATED) 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 dynamic here. CHUCK phone CASTO: with Hey, the we just had a and very the (inaudible)? MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: Yes. Marty, I have Chuck anything public, it's MALE anything about document Right theirs now, about PARTICIPANT: Do we want in to say
actions,
protection
action
inconsistent
(inaudible,
which it
would
different
the
points
PARTICIPANT:
call
Ambassador
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86 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 Director of Nuclear Technology Propulsion and Thomas. Program, Admiral for the Naval Ren Nuclear
Mueller,
(phonetic),
12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
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87
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
K5X
NEAL R. GROSS
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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10
*mm
- m-m
m88
-nm m
-Um
d---
19 2C 21
2] 24 25
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9
10 11 12 13 14 1 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 NEAL R.GROSS
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90
1
2 3 4 on it,
Okay.
Yes,
we'll
get
done a calculation. CHUCK CASTO: MALE They haven't, They're no. just shooting
PARTICIPANT:
6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
Yes.
says,
it
has Mueller,
Ren
Offendorf with
this area
Okay. then,
And,
--
the Admiral?
the Ambassador
would
like
one-pager
or
something,
bullet
points,
that
reconcile
these differences
or explain
by the time he has the call with the White House at 7 nine o'clock our time, which is two hours from now. TEPCO has asked for So, they may be
8Meanwhile, 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2 21
2
in an hour,
us to come over and meet with them. reaching out for some advice. MALE PARTICIPANT:
Beyond
what
John
Monager has asked for? CHUCK CASTO: asked for. MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE about PARTICIPANT: Okay. We talked with John I don't know what John has
they're
for advice
that Units 1 and 2 are boiling off. CHUCK CASTO: Yes, So, that's probably the
23 2 2
MALE
PARTICIPANT:
Right.
We're working
on a timeline to support John right now. CHUCK CASTO: Okay. So, you've got two
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92 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 is bought probably Yes. MALE PARTICIPANT: CHUCK CASTO: a 202. He's in Yes. So, it's Yes, 202 area code? probably. Yes, Washington? CHUCK CASTO: Yes, I believe so, right. things you're working on there. MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: number you gave was for whom? CHUCK M-U-E-L-L-E-R. CASTO: He's the It's Troy Director J. of Mueller, Nuclear Got it. Well, Chuck, the phone
Technology for the Naval Nuclear Propulsion Program. MALE PARTICIPANT: CHUCK CASTO:
M-U --
Washington.
We just had a
videoconference with him and the Ambassador. MALE PARTICIPANT: CHUCK CASTO: Okay. off? So, Okay. was very heated.
And it
Because
He wants
www.nealrgross.com
1c 11 12 1 14 15 1 ;MALE 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 2 Ambassador. MALE PARTICIPANT: CHUCK CASTO: Okay. need to come through Chuck? CHUCK CASTO: Yes, they sent it to the they did send it PARTICIPANT: Well, it sounds like
PARTICIPANT:
They
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94 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 (inaudible) percent. with fuel. MALE PARTICIPANT: Should we do NR. what? MALE PARTICIPANT: The Procedures Okay. is I'm following up working on spent get busy. MALE PARTICIPANT: CHUCK CASTO: MALE Okay. thanks. should Thanks. be doing us. I mean they need to work with us. MALE PARTICIPANT: CHUCK CASTO: Yes.
--
we've been working with them all through the time, nobody mentioned this. CHUCK certainly visceral. But, anyhow, I'll let you go, CASTO: Yes. Well,
they're
so you can
PARTICIPANT:
Team
actions out of this? MALE 33 PARTICIPANT: percent and these it's We're are running (inaudible)
not going to be
95 much different. MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: That's fine. Who's coming up with
the Ambassador?
He's going
minutes,
the Ambassador.
think
that's
with the Ambassador yet. MALE PARTICIPANT: going to do with it right now, I'm not sure what we're do with the Chairman.
At some point,
update on the status. MALE "Where was") PARTICIPANT: the Japanese (Inaudible, (inaudible, possibly possibly
meeting that Tony had just come from that (inaudible). They were in and TEPCO the meeting. It was with (inaudible)
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96
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 2 additional? interagency public. So, this and I'll that's (inaudible, possibly "there was going to be a")
meeting to go into detail about what (inaudible). MALE PARTICIPANT: Dan, are you
comfortable that you've got a list MALE (inaudible). MALE PARTICIPANT: PARTICIPANT:
Yes,
yes.
Make
sure
that we get that updated of all that we're now working on. MALE PARTICIPANT: and get back to him, if
the different
things
PARTICIPANT:
"I can do whatever you want.") MALE I started TEPCO, PARTICIPANT: If you wouldn't mind?
one that is
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97 1 2 3 4
5
documents the
together,
--
and,
then,
also,
document
recommending that
PARTICIPANT:
Is
this
going
out
to
No, in
this is that
not. one;
The Rod
his. possibly
That's
"shotgun following
But what's the other one? on-MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT:
MALE
PARTICIPANT:
Yes,
it
will
be
up
Yes. put
Yes,
that's we It
that Okay.
coming.
98 1 2 3 4 5 (inaudible). MALE bigger thing. MALE in PARTICIPANT: So, is there anything PARTICIPANT: We're not sure of the MALE PARTICIPANT: Our talking points
6
7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
the bigger document? No, not at all. But what I was trying for the
we're trying to get to a one-pager this looks a lot closer to that. MALE PARTICIPANT: more of a, Well, this the is
Ambassador,
problem, definitely
though,
this
is
(inaudible).
K>S
I'm
not
sure
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1 2 3 d 5 6 7
(CONFERENCE CALL INITIATED) MALE PARTICIPANT: DAN DORMAN: MALE Yes? Admiral Donald Dan?
PARTICIPANT:
(phonetic) wants to talk to both you and the Chairman. So, they're getting the Chairman on the line, and
they're patching in
MALE PARTICIPANT:
MALE PARTICIPANT:
Okay,
my work here is
PARTICIPANT:
Okay,
let's
get
you
MALE PARTICIPANT:
This is
what we sent.
Do you want send that to somebody in MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: Okay.
Naval Reactors?
(Inaudible) send it
to.
try to get a hold of (inaudible). MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: (Inaudible). I know. It's either go and don't If we
with what we got there or else just erase it even put it say that on there because we're working it.
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101
1 2 3 4
people. MALE PARTICIPANT: (inaudible). (Inaudible.) MALE PARTICIPANT: They're saying that the got were coming from Our understanding is we
6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2 2 22 23 24 25
initial
high
readings
we
(inaudible,
possibly "readings")
from Unit 4,
but were
(Inaudible).
PARTICIPANT:
Admiral So,
Donald
is
asking to just speak to the Chairman. be kind of keyed into that. MALE PARTICIPANT: the Chairman beforehand? cold. I
we want to
PARTICIPANT:
First,
brief
the
(Inaudible). MALE PARTICIPANT: The Chairman's coming in cold. (Inaudible) (Inaudible). All right. Let me know the issue.
We're
trying
to is
the to
(Inaudible).
recommendation
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102 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 first brief the Chairman and then have the phone call. (Inaudible.) MALE PARTICIPANT: (Inaudible) hot items
that we ought to get up on the track or (inaudible). MALE PARTICIPANT: We should say that, in
protective measures
Amazing point in
that,
10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 2
if
then
(inaudible).
I don't think
we can hide from that. (Inaudible). MALE does after provide we had PARTICIPANT: 6 Actually, which five we NRC NUREG-1353 pulled out
reached out,
Essentially, all say the same, 6 which was developed in all the
(inaudible)
materials
There's lead,
(inaudible)
cetera.
getting this emailed over to our contacts. I thought Chuck said he had this NUREG,
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103
1
2 3 4
but
there
is
actually
an
Alternative is
6,
which
if
else left,
the
Chernobyl
event.
So,
MALE PARTICIPANT: 7 dirty. 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 .25 (inaudible), reaction concrete. to MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT:
really have to got your real experts to sit we don't understand caved over or is it the condition. Is
just the liner's cracked and the Naval Reactors is pour water on,
concrete's cracked?
pour water on, pour water on. Concrete, concrete. I've got Naval a lot of negative suggested no, I'm
Reactors
"Well,
not sure about concrete." MALE PARTICIPANT: to take to set up a batch? MALE PARTICIPANT: right? But minute answer, I Yes, where's the batch How long are you going
this is
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104 1 2 3 where again? MALE PARTICIPANT: here's on the top. NUREG. It came out of NUREG -It's a MALE PARTICIPANT: And that came out of
6
7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24
25 retype it.
and Amy (inaudible)? We're doing that. as we speak. She has And
MALE PARTICIPANT: (phonetic) is MALE (inaudible)? MALE PARTICIPANT: may not haveM, but she's got MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT:
--
doing it
PARTICIPANT:
Well,
she
she
has
to
She tried
don't
if
we have
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with Naval Reactors? MALE PARTICIPANT: A xdmiral Donald. P ardon me? Admiral Donald? Acdmiral Donald? Inaudible).
MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: (Inaudible). MALE Chairman -PARTICIPANT:
5 6
7 8 9
Did
you
give
the
1 13 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2 2 22 23 24 25 26
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MALE PARTICIPANT: They know each other. (Inaudible) MALE PARTICIPANT: that we received the GE
out
(inaudible,
possibly "where the breach is")? MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: the RTS? MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE (Inaudible, break"),
-well,
PARTICIPANT: "It
possibly
and in
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106
I
2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 1 1 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 2 2 that Naval second, meeting.
coming up on the bridge. MALE PARTICIPANT: JACK: John Hi. This is is Jack? Jack. stepping out for I don't a
Monager
while ago about the conversation with Naval Reactors. MALE PARTICIPANT: JACK: okay, Yes.
got to quiet down? MALE PARTICIPANT: (Pause.) JACK: So, Okay. Sorry about that. that Chuck mentioned the ET are working Thank you.
Reactors
together to figure out a path forward. include some kind of calculations (inaudible,
protective action or a
1") or something like that. I'm just kind of fishing right now because most everybody has left the room and there's a lot of NEAL R. GROSS
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107
1
3 4
--
Jack,
this is
Marty.
6 2 7
Definitely.
Exactly.
And
that
We're
trying
to connect
right now to get that accomplished. JACK: talking a little Marty, bit you know, we have here, been too,
behind
the
scenes
17
13 18
19 20 21 22 23 24 25 done.
MARTY
VIRGILIO:
Jack,
that's
how
we
MARTY VIRGILIO:
JACK: MARTY
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108 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2C 21 22 23 2 2 t419 to MARTY VIRGILIO: JOHN MONAGER: possibly "some"). MARTY VIRGILIO: Well, we sent it to We sent it We information (inaudible)? MALE PARTICIPANT: I mo "to (inaudible, we sent it don't know that they did anything that sophisticated. I think they developed their talking points based on
engineering judgment. JACK: MARTY understand that. JACK: Thanks a lot. MARTY VIRGILIO: JOHN MONAGER: We're getting TEPCO meeting. MARTY VIRGILIO: that we sent Okay. on Did you get for the the Okay, Hey, ready Jack. this is John. to that Okay. I appreciate it, Marty. Okay. Okay. But we're trying to
VIRGILIO:
Marty, to
head out
(inaudible)
only have
There's a set of recommendations should be doing with regard to those pools. JOHN MONAGER: All right. So,
on what we
you sent it
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109 1 2 3 John. dirty, If MARTY VIRGILIO: MALE PARTICIPANT: you can't Yes. It Okay. was quick and dirty, dump anything in,
sand, dolomite,
those pools. 6 It comes out of a NUREG So, it's that Chuck had
Okay.
Perfect.
Good luck.
Are we interested in
here--
18 19 20 2 22 23 2 2 MARTY VIRGILIO: MALE PARTICIPANT: MARTY VIRGILIO: Yes, we're working that. We're working that.
We've been working that all night and trying to see what's better information we can get off those
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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 1 18 19 2< 21 22
K>
Yes.
Okay.
Hang on.
do you need anything else from us? CASTO: No. You're working the
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1il
1
2 3 4
on
the
line now,
and we're
going
to start
engaging
wi th him. CHUCK We're done. MALE PARTICIPANT: Thank you, Marty. You're welcome. CASTO: Okay. Thank you, sir.
E 7
2 S
MARTY VIRGILIO:
IC
ill 12
131
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112 11 2 3 Trautman. (CONFERENCE CALL INITIATED) STEVE TRAUTMAN: Hello. This is Steve
I was trying to reach Dan Dorman. MARTY VIRGILIO: Steve, it's Marty
Virgilio and Dan. STEVE 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 1 17 1 19 20 21 22 23 24 2 issue. Jaczko doing? MARTY VIRGILIO: this morning? STEVE TRAUTMAN: Well, we've been in a All right. How are you TRAUTMAN: Hey, Marty, how you
while working on this thing based on the events of the day. Hey, because we have been trying to reach Chairman we've got ourselves Japan. the in a bit of an
Chairman
briefed the Chairman yet. STEVE TRAUTMAN: Chairman on what yet? MALE PARTICIPANT: On this particular You haven't briefed the
Here's my characterization of where we are. STEVE TRAUTMAN: MALE Yes. Naval Reactors
PARTICIPANT: NEALR.GROSS
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113 1 2
3
developed a set of talking points that included what actions needed to be taken and what consequence would occur if the actions weren't taken. NRC developed a our assumptions and the
with regard to the reactors and spent-fuel pools, 8 if nothing changes, this is what we see as
consequence.
And are they the same?
9
12
K>
13 14 1.5 16 17 18 19 2G 21 22 they're 50 miles STEVE nearly, for TRAUTMAN: Okay. I mean, to me,
they're protective
identical. actions.
contamination out there, and that was -MALE exactly right. STEVE TRAUTMAN: So, the y're not apples PARTICIPANT: Exactly. That's
23
24 2E
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114 1] 2 3 and oranges -or they're not apples and apples. Right.
MALE PARTICIPANT:
Sl-\
12 13 14 15 16 17 18 .19 20
21 22
23 24 25 way.
MALE PARTICIPANT:
No,
I don't see it
that
STEVE TRAUTMAN:
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115 1 2 3 4 you wouldn't. ground in I'm just telling you my guys on the
that's
what they came away with. MALE PARTICIPANT: STEVE TRAUTMAN: Okay. Okay? And so, that's the
6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
kind of engagement we're trying to have. you that I don't believe the consequences
our organizations have laid out are different. MALE PARTICIPANT: Ambassador, citizens, people?" STEVE TRAUTMAN: Now, obviously, honest is you know, Right. And I think the
once again
trying to say,
people can argue the same point many different ways. And if good we end up losing one of these plants, possibility
--
there's a of these
we're
going
to
lose
all
plants
MALE PARTICIPANT:
STEVE TRAUTMAN:
Yes.
-because you're going
to have to be away.
And, is
right now,
I recall correctly.
I worry
And the whole issue that we're trying get to is, if this thing goes down badly in
to
the near
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116 1 2 3 4
5 6
future,
there's
lot
of
American
citizens,
both
that we're
PARTICIPANT:
What
STEVE TRAUTMAN:
7 8 9
11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2
21
Yes. to be
22
23
STEVE TRAUTMAN:
MALE
Okay.
--
PARTICIPANT:
downtown
this
24 25
morning.
So,
Mike,
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117 1 2 3 4 5 doing? MIKE WEBER: Okay. So, I'm sorry, go ahead. possibly "Things MIKE WEBER: Yes. Morning, Hi, Mike. Steve. How are you
STEVE TRAUTMAN:
(Inaudible,
are")
better than they are in Japan. STEVE TRAUTMAN: Yes, I agree with that.
So, is has of
that's what I see as the issue here on view of what the NRC and what our
Ambassador,
this
has been
they're not
consistent.
15
16 17 18 19 20 21 MALE PARTICIPANT: Right, right.
22
23 24 251
(5>
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118
3
4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 that's -MALE
MALE PARTICIPANT: As an aside, while you all have been focused on the reactor, this morning we have been focused on the spent-fuel pools. STEVE TRAUTMAN: Yes, I agree with you, PARTICIPANT: And we have just
provided to our guys over there a list a dozen actions that we are going
recommendations
best step with regard to those pools. STEVE TRAUTMAN: I mean I agree with you.
Both the spent-fuel pools and the reactors need to be dealt with. MALE PARTICIPANT: STEVE TRAUTMAN: MALE PARTICIPANT: Yes. It's not either/or here. And it sounds like
they've lost the integrity of the walls on the Unit 4 pool. STEVE TRAUTMAN: MALE PARTICIPANT: NEALR.GROSS
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119 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 1 19 2 21 22 23 24 2 do that be -that. So, how do we bring this to conclusion, so awareness. STEVE TRAUTMAN: All right. I appreciate best this point. STEVE TRAUTMAN: MALE PARTICIPANT: recommendations on how Yes, So, they sir. we've provided our should be dealing
with that. STEVE TRAUTMAN: MALE Okay. So, just for your
PARTICIPANT:
that the Ambassador feels like we're on the same page? MALE PARTICIPANT: Well, Mike is here and
Mike will be on the eight o'clock. STEVE TRAUTMAN: I don't want you guys Yes, but that's going to
disagreement
to get to the Ambassador and come to some unity prior to that eight o'clock meeting. MALE via Or is a PARTICIPANT: call with the And you're wanting to Chairman and Admiral
Donald?
there some other way you -The bottom line is, from
we can come to agreement that we're we just need to figure out how to
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1
2 3
I mean,
if
you want,
we
can all hook up together with the NRC guy right now on a bridge, your guy in Japan, so that we can all come then, they can go in to the
to some mutual agreement. 5 6 7 8 9 1 1 12 1 14 15 16 17 18 19 2 21 22 23 2 2 call in Casto on with a unified front eight o'clock meeting.
And,
bridge or do you want to do it? STEVE TRAUTMAN: MALE Let me think a minute. We're Steve. Say that again, please? We're getting Chuck trying to get
PARTICIPANT:
PARTICIPANT:
the phone.
Chuck Casto is
team over in
NRC EOC.
that work?
Do you guys
want to set that bridge up? MALE PARTICIPANT: STEVE TRAUTMAN: right now. Yes, that will work. I'll have him
All right.
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a
2
Yes,
All right,
call.
11 12 12
17
19 2C 21 22 23 24
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122 1 2 3 (CONFERENCE CALL INITIATED) STEVE TRAUTMAN: Mr. Muller This is be Steve Trautman. calling in on a
should
trying to get Chuck on the line. STEVE TRAUTMAN: MALE Headquarters 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2C 21 22 23 24 25 this, Mike, there? CHUCK CASTO: MALE Yes, I'm her e. Okay. I think we're Mr. bridge. MALE PARTICIPANT: Mr. Muller, you have Okay. This is the
PARTICIPANT:
Operations Officer.
has called into the ET conference. MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: Okay. Thank you.
Trautman on the bridge. MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: Still on the bridge. Casto, are you
Chuck
PARTICIPANT:
that's okay with you? Go for it. Okay. What we've been
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2 3
4
5 6
9 10
11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 CHUCK CASTO: with you on the phone call. MALE PARTICIPANT: CHUCK CASTO: Okay. Urgent is to Yes, and we agreed on that
That's urgent.
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i9m qq4-44.on
6K>
PARTICIPANT:
Agree.
Recovery
is,
25
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127
2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12
*m
mmmm
K>
K>
13 14 15 16 .17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MALE PARTICIPANT: headquarters can help me. on this? about still on I'm the looking 7:30 Which one then? Maybe
What is
at page
Eastern
Daylight
valid,
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I would have to --
7:30
3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10
in
you issued this morning has the same language. MALE PARTICIPANT: The one that we sent
11
12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 .21 22 23 24 25 from shift 07:30 MALE PARTICIPANT: we had, had Yes, that in that discussion that we midwere
KI
yesterday, we
earlier
yesterday,
information
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129
I
2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 1 16 17 18 1 20 21 22 23 24 25 we've got Which one is Chairman. us. that time.
We subsequently had information about 150 Unit 2. So, I think this morning we were
pounds in
looking at just the one spent-fuel pool. I understand Chairman Jaczko has joined
Yes.
So,
valid for right now? DAN DORMAN: I think the one that we sent
over this morning that says evacuation out to 50 miles is the latest information. MALE PARTICIPANT: But let me interject
for a moment for the Chairman's benefit. Chairman, our team we have Naval on in Japan, Reactors on, here and at
and we're
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130 1 the Ambassador thinks that Naval Reactors and NRC have provided different recommendations to the Ambassador. 3 4 we're 6 7 NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MALE wrestling PARTICIPANT: with are, first, Okay. And the issues priority that on
place
taking care of the reactors and the spent-fuel pools, which are in much degraded condition this morning than they were last night. And, then, if -They're
9 1 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 consequence priority.
I'm sorry?
management
But it's
a matter of
Okay.
196
2C 21 21 23 24 25 seeing STEVE TRAUTMAN: Because everything we're both at the
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1 .11
2 3
6 7
8
9
12 13 12
four or five hours ago that says the information that we have, would based on the spent-fuel condition, if Unit 4,
support
evacuation up
to 50 miles
the wind
changes,
which we don't expect before the weekend. NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: Well, are the to 50
currently
order
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132 1 miles?
2
3
MUO-mm
EM
5
7 8] 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23
24.
NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: on what we know, evacuation? MARTY VIRGILIO: This is What assessment of those Marty. trying No.
So,
right now,
based
would we be recommending
a 50-mile
No,
Chairman.
we're
to
do is
is
get
an
where
hours ago. NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MARTY VIRGILIO: Okay. We haven't made a
different recommendation,
a lot of
unknowns that we're trying to make known. NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: are leaning forward here,
get better or get worse?
At this point,
if
we
do we think this is
going to
MARTY VIRGILIO:
It's
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133 if 2 3 you think about the spent-fuel 4 doesn't have a spent-fuel pools. pool Right now, anymore. It
Unit
appears
got fuel there. 5 1 NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MARTY VIRGILIO: 7 8 1 9 1 1 12 13 14 appears fuel Okay. and 3, it
the spent-
pool,
appear that
they're making
up the levels.
U E
K3~
22 22 23 24 25 is STEVE TRAUTMAN: Steve Trautman again. NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: Yes. Yes, Mr. Chairman, this
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134 1 STEVE TRAUTMAN: you have just said. And I so, agree with everything my view of what the
2 3
two pieces.
7 8 4 9 5
S*_
MARTY
VIRGILIO:
And,
Chairman,
where is to
think we're complementary with Naval Reactors 12 17 11 have provided some good advice the core, with and regard I
they the
reactors provided 17
advice we
can with
regard
spent-fuel pool. 26 1 NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: three sentences, tell me what I'm sorry. the message is So, in
23
we're delivering to the Ambassador. 24 MALE disagreeing. PARTICIPANT: We and NR are not
25
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KS
s
1ic
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12
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2 2
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COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
137 1 2 3 4 Chuck, NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: do you have any good -All right. I think,
any access at all? CHUCK CASTO: Very little. Okay. Here's where going to get
in my mind,
Does anyone disagree with that? MALE PARTICIPANT: NRC CHAIRMAN No. This is going we, to I
JACZKO:
to have three reactors out of control and possibly up to six spent-fuel pools. MALE PARTICIPANT: Agreed. I think we need to
take whatever actions are necessary to deal with that. That is the message I think we need to deliver to the as soon as of possible. U.S. If that involves need a to
Ambassador general
evacuation
citizens,
we
instruct that to be done immediately. Does anyone disagree with that? ADMIRAL DONALD: Donald at Naval Reactors. I agree with you. NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: Okay. Let's get Chairman, this is Admiral
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138 1 2 3 line with that message to the Ambassador. Ops Center, Admiral I need you to get me on the to the White House
Donald
I need Muller.
and mobilizing their military to do so. NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: worried about the U.S. Right now, citizens. I'm going That's a
secondary matter with the core. MALE PARTICIPANT: Mr. Chairman, I don't
think we could practically get them out of here. NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: Well, and, that's what then,
--
we are
Okay.
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139 1 2 3 considering MALE PARTICIPANT: actions, moving Second, in the we have to be direction of
actions to evacuate American citizens. NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: fine. I'm fine with that. CHUCK CASTO: This is To what degree? Okay, good. That's
6 7 4 5 9 of Japan?
To what degree
CHAIRMAN Chuck,
JACZKO: got
At to
this
point, me
I a
you've
give
recommendation here.
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2
3 -and I
Okay.
Well,
I think
I think
Admiral
Donald --
4 5 6 7 8 9 i0 1 12 13
14
that's not something that the NRC can do. ADMIRAL DONALD: Correct. What I need to do is knows I what our
recommendation
And
appreciate
that that's going to lead to a lot of activity and a lot of other action, but I think we need to get that
right
15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 2 25
talking Japan,
about
is
the
status
of
in
not necessarily
evacuations If we still
around
the facility, et cetera. miles have U.S. is that the appropriate as a message,
distance, but
I think
personnel issues that need to be addressed. BILL BORCHARDT: Yes, Chairman, this is
Bill Borchardt. If out to 50 this happened in That the U.S., be our we would go evacuation
miles.
would
recommendation. NEALR.GROSS
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141 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 the NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: BILL BORCHARDT: appropriate guidance to Okay.
pass on at this point. NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MALE PARTICIPANT: Okay. But I would think
you're also passing out KI to everyone else as well. MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE have enough KI. PARTICIPANT: Not necessarily. I don't know that we
12 13 14
MALE 2,
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142 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 that, this at far as the pools. MALE PARTICIPANT: is Chairman, 50 I think as as a
evacuation I
concerned, that is
miles for
starting
point,
think
suitable
your
I think, again,
procedures
moving
this thing goes really badly. NRC CHAIRMAN this to point, lean as JACZKO: I said, in I that Yes. And I think
point
forward
13
this point
14
15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Send it message.
*
MALE PARTICIPANT: Okay. So, that is a fourth NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO:
those to me in
JACZKO:
And again,
let me
(202) 234.4433
statements?
MALE PARTICIPANT: ADMIRAL DONALD: Do it. Chairman, this is Admiral
i0 11 12 13 14 19
12
17
18
19 20
21
22 23 24 25
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1
2 3 4 (CONFERENCE CALL INITIATED) MALE PARTICIPANT: This is the
you would like to speak with? NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MALE PARTICIPANT: NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO:
1 12 13 1 1 16 17 18 1 2 21 22 23 24 2 everybody by.
Roger that,
to a separate
conference bridge along with the White House Situation Room. NRC CHAIRMAN just JACZKO: so we have If we can keep
else on,
the
background,
want everyone on the ET? NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MALE PARTICIPANT: Yes. sir.
Roger that,
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145 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 bridge, sir. NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: had a chance to catch their Now that everybody's is there anybody please. MALE PARTICIPANT: NRC CHAIRMAN Okay, sir. Again, now that am I speaking, NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: Just one voice
JACZKO:
everybody's had a chance to catch their breath -still on the bridge? MALE PARTICIPANT: You're still on
the
breath,
who disagrees with those four points? MALE PARTICIPANT: Mr. Chairman, we were
just talking about the fourth point. NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MALE PARTICIPANT: Yes.
And I guess it
20
21 22 23 24 25 NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: Yes, that's a
decision we'll leave up to the Administration. MALE PARTICIPANT: Okay. How they do that.
146
1
2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 1 18 19 2 21 22 23 24 25 26 here. sir.
But,
again,
does
anyone disagree
with me
making those four statements? MALE PARTICIPANT: BILL BORCHARDT: NO. No disagreement here,
Chairman,
Yes?
K>
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147 1 2 3 you on? ADMIRAL DONALD: 5 6 7 8 9, 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 2E conference very soon. NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MALE PARTICIPANT: Okay, great. MALE working on it. PARTICIPANT: Mr. Chairman, they're I'm on. (CONFERENCE CALL INITIATED) NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: Admiral Donald, are
&
I
They do have the Situation Room on the
line and they'll relay that message. MALE PARTICIPANT: Hey, Chairman, this is
Yes.
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148
2
3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10
*7
How are you? to relay to you.
Greg, this is
I have
a couple of other people on the line just to make sure we get them right.
12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 2 say, right now it's reactor at Daiichi or is NRC CHAIRMAN And, No. 2-Greg, is this for the
broader to the entire site. Okay. NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: Yes, the entire, the
And that seven o'clock this morning? NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: of 6:45 this morning. NEAL R.GROSS
1202t 234-4433 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. WASHINGTON. D.C. 20005-3701
is
as of,
let's
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2(
3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 2 evacuation 50 miles. NEAL R. GROSS
COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. WASHINGTON. D.C. 20005-3701 www.rnealrgross.com
Actually,
No.
3.or No.
4? 3: recommend
I'm on No.
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31
5 6 7 8
9
ii 12 12 12
15 16 17 18 19
20
21
22
23
24 25 ADMIRAL DONALD:
And, plus -this is
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151 1 2 3 4
Admiral Donald of Naval Reactors
--
the
effort
that
it's
going
to take
and
the time
that
it's
going to we really
have to get things moving sooner rather than later. NRC CHAIRMAN points clear? JACZKO: are those
They
are,
Greg.
Let
me
11 12 13 14 1 1 17 18 19 20 21, 22 23 24 25
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152 1 2 3 4
good morning.
Naval Reactors and a few others on the line. I guess I'll turn to you, Greg. Hi, Greg, to turn
Okay.
Hi there,
Greg.
There's
four
items
that right now I have concurrence from my team here at NEAL R. GROSS
COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701
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6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 it is important. So, up there. And, No. 4, given the likelihood that I'm sorry, Greg. You broke
You're going to have to go start again. And I just spoke tof and
he's going to get on the line now. NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: Okay. sounds like this
Because it
NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: I get better at it. (Laughter.) MALE PARTICIPANT: was that last? NEAL R. GROSS
Greg,
I'm sorry,
what
COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 o WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com
154
I
2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 is going
to be joining us momentarily.
So,
think
we'd wait. MALE PARTICIPANT: Can I ask one Okay. Got it. in the interim? and do
question
Have you chatted with your colleagues they concur with your assessment? NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO:
at DOE,
11
12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 2 you. possibly protective (inaudible). just here. wanted
I have not.
We can
I just thought
was important to relay this as soon as possible. MALE PARTICIPANT: sure that No, I no, I agree. blocked I up
to make
hadn't
NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: get some sleep tonight. It sounds like it MALE "work So, I
"factor")
(inaudible,
possibly
"interest")
Okay.
Good.
Thank
NEAL R. GROSS
COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE, N.W.
155 1 2 3 4 NRC again. CHAIRMAN Yes, Okay. JACZKO: you on yet? I'm here, Good. Okay, I'll start John.
5 6 7 S
9
11
13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24
25
6,--
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I And
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COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701
156 1 2 3 4 5 Chuck and furthermore, it appears that this event will likely
and not better, at this point. again, if I can just have disagree my team, those
everybody,
anybody
with
statements as I've said them? MALE PARTICIPANT: went to Chuck stepped out. and we have no, He the
6
7 8 9 10 1i 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 would see only about Japan, worst Japan? likely the to deliver.
folks in
the room have no comments. NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: So, Okay. Thank you. I wanted
DONALD:
This
is
Admiral
Donald
And I agree with those messages. Greg, to get worse, not of when you and say it's
better, U.S.
thinking from
general
evacuation
citizens
I ask, scenario
once again,
as far as what
NRC a
CHAIRMAN worst
JACZKO:
At
this
point,
scenario
probably
being
three
eventually
NEAL R. GROSS
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157 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 have some type of predict release. Again, it's difficult to coupled with in a degraded Those
condition, possibly with spent-fuel pool fires. are all significant events.
11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 2 down, then, Three six spent-fuel ponds go up in reactors flames. melting And what, if
for example,
the wind kept blowing in that direction? NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: At this point, I
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158
1 2 3 4 5 50 miles. to Tokyo. But, again, we looked last night at one I don't know that we've run a model out yet
That took us it
6
7 8 9 I 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24
reactor
fire doesn't seem to be one that would take to 50 miles at this point, based on our
analyses. But I would caution -fourth statement -part of this and, is again, for the we
just simply
just don't know the condition of the core. know the condition of the spent fuel. the direct modeling. So, these are, but, we think, details to really,
We don't
We don't have
you know,
bit in
implication. thinking =
29
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159
2 3 continue
i think that's something that we would have to to work through and work with the various
parties that would need to be involved to do something like that. 6 7 8 impact on the U.S. homelands,
So,
there
would
be
no
Hawaii,
No.
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160
his
been given by the NRC team the same points that I just reiterated to you.
~Greg,
NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO:
C
tells you
are you saying that you see those points being or those are just what your data
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1 2 3
6 7
9 10 11 12 13 14 1 16 17 18 1 2 21 22
23
[
your view, Greg, the cause of that?
do you guys,
what's
24 25
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3
4 5
have some of our technical folks on the line. Mike, can you answer that question? Can you repeat the question,
7j
9
1 1 12
_What
MIKE WEBER:
13
14 1 16 17 18 19 2 21 22 23 24 25 the call? structure collapsed. pile. is
Okay.
So,
it
is
MIKE
WEBER:
That's
right.
The
pool
no longer in So,
existence.
Yes.
Okay.
Is
State on
MALE
PARTICIPANT:
State
is
not
on
the
call.
Okay. MALE PARTICIPANT: But wi e have our team
NEAL R.GROSS
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163 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 1 12 13 14 1 16 17 18
19
/
there
in
Japan,
and
they
are
working
to
brief
the
Ambassador.
UReactors, DoD channels? ADMIRAL Deputy minutes, brief the DONALD: CNO just
Yes.
Okay.
And
this through
Sir, in
I've
just
had my of
the
last
couple
up to the Secretary
a couple of minutes
on?
don't
believe
so.
points and send them over? NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: NEAL R. GROSS
COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., NW. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701
Okay,
I will.
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and see if
8
9 10 11 12 We probably should. Should we the Deputies?
This is
approach the 0800 (inaudible),
13
1 1 117 18
.
I have a --
probably,
think we need
So,
you
and
can
get
together and talk about who should be there. M do. I'll ENE M, Good. That's what we'll
19
20 21 22 23 2 25
come down and see you now, Okay. NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: And, folks, I'm
scheduled to be on the Hill at 10 o'clock to testify. Or, actually, I'm sorry, 9:30. So, if necessary, I
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165 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 1 16 17 18 19 best I can. it's in this, and to which committee? NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: the House on, it Energy and Commerce and I'll But, have Mike Weber available, if you need me, if you need us.
of course,
but it
Yes,
obviously.
And
I would not make any of these messages public, you disagree. But you'll get on the eight o'clock CVTs (phonetic)? NRC Yes. Actually, and I'm downtown. It it might be easier, might be easier if CHAIRMAN JACZKO: Yes, I'll
be able
to
do
the
20
21 22 23 24 2 birth?
/MALE
-sure.
What's your date of And what's your Social?
PARTICIPANT:
166 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 2 2 26
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MALE
PARTICIPANT:
And,
then,
Greg,
always spell your last name wrong. NRC CHAIRMAN cat, Z, as in zebra, K-O. PARTICIPANT: Okay, we'll get you JACZKO: It's J-A-C, as in
CHAIRMAN or I'll
JACZKO: just be
Okay. on a
And call.
I'll I'm to
looking at the time. get there by 8:00. line. But, if I can, So,
I'll
MALE PARTICIPANT:
Thanks, Mr.
guys.
Chairman? Yes?
the Ops Center on a circuit line? NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MALE PARTICIPANT: ADMIRAL Donald. DONALD: Okay. Right.
NEAL R. GROSS
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167 1 2 3 4 5 McDermott. 7 8 6 9 JOSH BATKIN: Hey, Brian. So, you've (CONFERENCE CALL INITIATED) MALE PARTICIPANT: up on the ET bridge. JOSH BATKIN: Hello. Hi, Josh. This is Brian Josh Batkin is coming
BRIAN McDERMOTT:
spoken with the Chairman? BRIAN MCDERMOTT: JOSH Chairman, then? IAN (phoretic). BATKIN: Say it You've again? spoken with the
1 1 2 1 16 17
JOSH BATKIN: 18 19 2 21 22 23 24 25 JOSH BATKIN: made or that is doing press as well? IAN: No.
Okay.
Okay.
So,
are
we
Okay.
So,
was
a clecision
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1 2
3 JOSH BATKIN: interesting night, IAN: I guess. Yes, sir. That's one way to put Okay. Wow, you guys had an
5-
4
5 6 7
MALE PARTICIPANT: it. JOSH Thank you. Do you engaged? earlier? MALE PARTICIPANT: the Admiral Donald call. JOSH BATKIN: Okay. Was it know when BATKIN: All
8
9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 much.
right.
Good
work.
first
It
So,
he got a little
bit of rest before today starts? MALE about an hour ago. JOSH BATKIN: Okay. Great. Well, So, and thank PARTICIPANT: Yes. We engaged him
the right
thing to do.
All right.
Hang in
there.
Hey,
Josh?
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169
3. 4
-JOSH 7
8
BATKIN:
Okay. So,
--
MALE PARTICIPANT:
four points on the CVTs call
I'll
JOSH BATKIN:
Okay.
--
MALE PARTICIPANT:
as our position,
and
expect
any pushback
from
the other
agencies
because, call.
you know,
Okay.
in
the
Right,
PARTICIPANT: (phonetic)
forwarded
the email
and Tom
Okay.
You might,
for that
And,
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170 1 2 3 4 role. folks; have So, just you would want to make sure that our folks, our PNT (phonetic) folks,
our modeling
whether they're,
have any questions before that call. 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 17 our folks? MALE PARTICIPANT: JOSH BATKIN: Yes. They would be part citizens out of of Our folks in Japan? MALE PARTICIPANT: JOSH BATKIN: Understood.
to get U.S.
17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 John JOSH BATKIN: MALE Monager and Okay. Let me were clarify that. 45
going
about
minutes ago to the meeting with NISA and TEPCO. and TEPCO were requesting information
NISA and
recommendations
COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) r 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com
171 1 2 3 4 .5 6 7 8 9 i 11 12 13 1 1 16 17 18 1 2 21 22 23 24 2 that report an IAEA the first four units' fuel pool, and particularly
which they described Unit 3 as having a reaction ongoing. pool as that having And they described been substantially no longer
spent-fuel to the
damaged
point
the walls
were
shows that you can get a fire out of that pool? MALE PARTICIPANT: JOSH BATKIN: Okay. And pools 5 and 6 also Yes.
Five. having in
Five.
decreasing
to a point
about another
two that would have fuel uncovered in JOSH BATKIN: before you can see a fire? MALE PARTICIPANT: JOSH BATKIN: MALE was Okay. Okay. And,
generator on Unit 6 that they could use to inject fuel to the Unit 5.
NEAL R.GROSS
COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., NW.
172 JOSH BATKIN: 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 1 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 2 soon, guys. Well, for MALE Okay. But that was an IAEA
PARTICIPANT:
report of information that's now about a day old. JOSH BATKIN: Right, right. Okay. Okay.
the
handling
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173 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 i 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 2 can get in McDermott. NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: Is Hi, Brian. (CONFERENCE CALL INITIATED) MALE PARTICIPANT: Chairman Jaczko being
transferred to the ET conference. NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: BRIAN McDERMOTT: Hello. Hi, Chairman. Brian
and we've got folks coming together for assistance briefing. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: Okay. Let's
postpone that right now. BRIAN McDERMOTT: NRC distract people. CHAIRMAN Well, Okay. I don't want to
JACZKO:
without
taking away from whatever immediate actions we need to deal with. BRIAN McDERMOTT: to postpone that, sir. Okay. No, I think we're going
174 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 1 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 2 NEALR.GROSS
COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
BRIAN
McDERMOTT:
You
need
to
be
on
secure videoconference or there in person. NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: to get over to the White House. BRIAN McDERMOTT: there? NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: Can you just So,
--
Okay. Okay.
Then, Thanks.
I need
gave the information to the White House. just double-back and make sure that
they have
175
BRUCE:
Yes,
BRIAN MCDERMOTT: the bridge with please? BRUCE: advised, Okay. I've
the Commissioners'
Brian.
I will.
assistance
briefing
bridge
have left the conference. BRIAN McDERMOTT: some hanging on, BRUCE: (Pause.) Okay, the links are now in muted. Okay. everyone. Thank you. This is Brian I'll That's fine. If you've
talk to everybody.
Roger that.
that we probably only have some on the call. have some? NEAL R.GROSS
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176 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 well, TOM HIPSCHMAN: the Chairman's Office is here. Okay, Tom. least All one. right, We'll Yes, Tom Hipschman from
BRIAN McDERMOTT:
give you what we have. We're Commissioners' going to its reschedule normal the
assistance call in
format at
on significant events from over the evening, 1 11 12 13 14 1 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 in this point. degraded, explosion got a lot going on right now. going to take questions. The last of pool bottom night. the line: That Unit 4 had So,
serious in a the
explosion to the
building
can no point.
That's hear,
salient And,
collapsed. basically
right now,
pool
and there's a lot of focus on that. You know, Units 1 and 3 are probably not Right now, in we're running terms of
--
sort of
projections
NEALR.GROSS
COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE.. N.W.
177 1 2 3 4 5 say 'difficult". term, You end up with a very large source-
actual dose mapping and projections because just the one unit would take you out to 50 miles in PEGs. So, we're working to do that. terms of
6
7
11 12 13 14 15 20 16 1'7 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 21
M AIR L M.IU H I.b b B R
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~MALE PARTICIPANT:
sometime this morning. BRIAN McDERMOTT:
Sometime.
I thinkk 1Tt2r-
4
5 6 7
--
Sometime
this morning,
very shortly,
8 9
1 1 12 13 1 1 16 17 18 19 2 21 22 23 24 25 NEAL R.GROSS
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1~0
/------
HIPSCHMAN:
Brian,
this is
Tom.
Would you like me to send out just a quick 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 be fine, note to the other offices saying that you're going to have a brief later on and I can just give them, you want, I can just give them a brief summary? BRIAN McDERMOTT: Tom. Fine. Yes, that would and if
15
16
2i
18 19 20 21 2.2
23 BRIAN McDNRMOTT : Yes.
24 21 to talk
going you
about
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recommendations
ultimately
into account the spent-fuel pools at all six units -6 TOM HIPSCHMAN: BRIAN McDERMOTT: TOM HIPSCHMAN: note and will, tell them to Okay. -Okay. and three reactors. I'll as send a quick I'm sure they
7
8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
(inaudible),
and mark it
BRIAN McDERMOTT: TOM HIPSCHMAN: BRIAN McDERMOTT: TOM HIPSCH-AN: BRIAN McDERMOTT:
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181 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 you doing? CHARLIE MILLER: CHUCK CASTO: All right. I had Miller here. CHUCK CASTO: Hey, Dr. Miller. How are (CONFERENCE CALL INITIATED) MALE PARTICIPANT: on the ET conference. CHARLIE Chuck Casto coming up
told Marty I would try to check in once an hour or so, and, really, I don't think I've done that yet -CHARLIE MILLER:
CHUCK CASTO: --
12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 anyhow.
Okay.
for the last two hours,
Of course, we had other activities going on. CHARLIE MILLER: Absolutely. Okay.
20
21 22 23 24 25
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182
1C
11 12 13
'5
KS~
And,
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183 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 11 12 13 14 15 1 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 2 2 him. I know, know, it's CHARLIE MILLER: more concerned about Okay. Did he seem to be that, you know, their they recognize that that may be out of to make that recommendation, but
jurisdiction it up
would leave
to the DC,
you know,
just propose
this morning.
that he wouldn't want to act on? CHUCK CASTO: Yes, he did. That one, you you think
I didn't get the feeling that that one was, something he was just so, looking for. I mean I
you know,
you guys
were telling us the other day that those rates are low and no long-term health effects; now you're coming up
with sending every American out of here. CHARLIE MILLER: to understand is Well, I think what he has
last couple of days. CHUCK CASTO: said, you know, Yes, hey, and that's what I at that time, told
maybe
one spent-fuel
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reactors,
multiple
spent-fuel
maybe four reactors and four spent-fuel pools. 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 you know, changed. CHARLIE MILLER: clarity on that: it's Yes. Yes, I mean, I think, it's yes, the CHARLIE MILLER: CHUCK CASTO: Right. that condition has
You know,
a spent-
fuel pool leaning toward a negative problem. CHUCK geometry on that. CHARLIE MILLER: Right. 2, Now, but I think, though, Chuck, for CASTO: Yes, and, then, the lost
a chance our
to talk
to him were
that
recommendations
based upon the conditions at the time and the actions, as well as we knew them, may be taking to try that we thought the Japanese to use seawater. But it's
obvious over the last number of days that the actions either haven't have been been discontinued, anyway, haven't and worked, and have
augmented
conditions
185
So, as conditions have gotten worse, we
have had to change our recommendation to make sure -CHUCK CASTO: Yes. -that we're prudent in
CHARLIE MILLER: protecting American citizenry. CHUCK essentially what I CASTO: told him,
Yes,
and
think
that's
Charlie.
I think that's
what he got out of it. NADER: Just Chuck, real this is Nader. I don't know if you're
quick,
aware of this, but the Japanese have these monitors in various areas across their country that have live sort of data. Is there any downside for Kirk (phonetic) to
try to get his hands on this live information? CHUCK CASTO: can pursue that. And, also, you may not be aware that Yes, I don't think so. I
FERMAC is
going to start
tomorrow morning, which will be tonight for you. MALE PARTICIPANT: Yes, it's 9:00 a.m.
Tokyo time tomorrow morning. CHUCK CASTO: Right. Yes. Yes, that : they
NEAL R.GROSS
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186
1
2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17
are going to have air assets and sample. MALE PARTICIPANT: CHUCK CASTO: information, us. CHARLIE MILLER: know, Are All right. Chuck, do you So, Okay. DOE will download that
over to
did DOE get our fixed-wing aircraft over there? they putting portable equipment on aircraft
that's available to Japan? CHUCK Alan. CHARLIE MILLER: at Andrews (Inaudible) Vegas. are located was CASTO: I don't know. I can ask
And I
just curious if
18
EU
221 22 23 24
25 pushing a little bit harder on --
Yes.
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187 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 1i 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 2 right. CHARLIE reasonably-achievable MILLER: Which may be a more you know, some N CHARLIE MILLER: CHUCK CASTO: on it, it Okay. You know, if you can get
(inaudible) the
magnitude
that too.
CHUCK
CASTO:
Yes,
absolutely.
mean
you've got military bases here. CHARLIE MILLER: And the question, too, I mean
I think what they've got to work out, opinion is whether you try to
evacuate
people from the country or you relocate them to a safe haven in a country, because there's many parts in the
country that won't be affected by this. CHUCK CASTO: Yes, that's a good point,
evacuation in
trying to get everybody out of the country. CHUCK CASTO: Yes. Yes. Somebody in one
NEAL R. GROSS
COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701
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188 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 take there, CHUCK CASTO: CHARLIE Yes. -medical doctors on of those meetings or something brought up KI, you
know,
but I don't
think,
we don't have an
inventory
over here.
MILLER:
of the United States out of panic. CHUCK CASTO: Yes. And -oversold. people not to
And it's
MILLER:
Telling
you're
absolutely
effects can occur from it. CHUCK CASTO: Yes. So, it isn't something
For people who may at the risk But there's could cause
things
NEAL R. GROSS
COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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189 Well, So, let me get our team just walked in a briefing from them, from TEPCO. call
and I'll
CASTO:
Yes.
And
that's
why
the=
we may get into EOC tomorrow morning. CHARLIE MILLER: CHUCK CASTO: then, we're still Okay. EOC. And,
The regulatory is
CHARLIE MILLER:
CASTO:
anything --
CHARLIE MILLER:
CHUCK CASTO: --
All right.
significant out of the
TEPCO briefing.
NEAL R.GROSS
fg9Y2i 1.4-44,
COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE.. N.W. WASHINGTON. D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealr~qross.comn
All right.
Thank you.
Yes.
NEAL R.GROSS
COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
191
1
2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 DoD, that guys on give it me right
(CONFERENCE CALL INITIATED) CHUCK CASTO: Hey, Charlie. are you there?
Chuck,
Yes,
Okay.
Okay. I
information from TEPCO. CHARLIE MILLER: to me first, and, Okay. then, I Maybe you should need to give you
from the Reactor Safety people. CHUCK CASTO: Okay. But we need to hear -Good, because that's what
reactor safety. Okay. And you I'm going the to put the But
specifics.
here's the basic strategy we would like to propose to you guys: That you talk with Admiral Mueller and
and we're going to give you a list needs to to be moved plant to as the
closest to
facility
that
possible,
NEAL R.GROSS
COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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AATI
wacI
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. o fY
qrm 1
nalnrmmac r-nm
192 1 2 3 equipment, is to the air base or whatever military base possible place that Americans can do of
the closest
Mueller,
he's
got
pumps
somewhere
in-
Okay.
in-country
trying to sell.
They're in Yokota. Those are the ones that ones that I'm talking
about. CHUCK Are they diesel? MALE PARTICIPANT: CHUCK Mueller CASTO: has got I don't know. whatever big diesel they pumps are, at CASTO: Yes. Yes, diesel pumps?
Well, four
That and all the other equipment we're going of what needs to be moved to the so we can
to the plant,
as soon as possible. And we've kind of broken a little They haven't been -bit here
stiff-arming us,
WASHING~TflN
n fl
9'fnr
I-37n1
vww naIrnmQ
wnm
193 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 1 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 back, that John, because about today, pools. equipment. units. CHARLIE MILLER: All right. Let's get So, have them and discussing designs of cooling water systems. John TEPCO. well, and Tim and them have made So, some progress So, with
maybe we can pump some water to these things. So, give I'm going to put them on the phone and you the Is attributes that okay? Yes. Dave Skeen is Okay? I'm going here the pumps and
CHUCK CASTO:
Tim
Cohn
(phonetic) and John Monager and Tony. JOHN MONAGER: So, what we were thinking
they need cooling for the four spent-fuel we're looking for essentially for the this four
Multiply everything
by four
on that for some of the pools. JOHN MONAGER: Okay. Good. Something that we can
n5 '
AA'V)
%A1AQW1Kk-.Tr%1 nP
0( 'XW _'A7(A1
jnrc'
194 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 1 1 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 2 2 We'll do. MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: I Please proceed. Okay. So, the notion it. MALE PARTICIPANT: Okay, John, okay. possibly floor. MALE PARTICIPANT: So, if I send it to So, email it email to CHARLIE MILLER: MALE PARTICIPANT: Yes. Yes. Okay. Yes. Well, you can
email us that as soon as possible. MALE PARTICIPANT: to get you guys? MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE catch PARTICIPANT: you? We Okay. Hey, where they is a good your Yes, where is the email
understood
took
fourth floor, and we get the webmail. MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: "encrypt") We got them back. And there's (inaudible,
MALE PARTICIPANT:
That's fine.
We'll get
NEAL R.GROSS
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COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 1A1A4ZL41Mf'rW nN rl 9 ')AIW.7f
vAwnaArnr^Q
rnrr
195
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 notion. Now, I guess what NEAL R.GROSS
COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
was
fire
have We
those want to
ground-based get
rocket
two different
meters
gallons per minute. You know, those backup trucks, fire rocket to that, so one notion is on the have you would have and as a
ground, the
aerial
ladder
the aerial fire department snorkel truck. So, you would have both means. the You would
have
gallons
We would also somehow look for those ladder trucks that could also reach that 30-meter
elevation distance at somewhere around 500 gallons per minute. MALE monitor nozzles. MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: Monitor nozzles? Correct. And a ladder PARTICIPANT: Yes, they're called
truck usually will have one on the very end of it. MALE PARTICIPANT: Okay. So, that's the
they were
saying,
the
196 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 1 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 guess, type of issue with that is the head loft and that positive
suction head sucking from the ocean. MALE PARTICIPANT: pipe for the suction pipe. MALE need rigid pipe. meters or so for PARTICIPANT: And each Yes. Yes, is plus, you 800 need know, Plus, you need a rigid
probably
some type
of booster
pump down by
probably a diesel booster pump right down by the ocean there, there, about and, sucking you in there, so there's that not pipe, fire much head up
know,
pressurizing
going
launchers trucks
fire
positioned up there. MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: (inaudible). Yes, and that also, I
eventually,
you're just going to clog up -MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: Right. -the fire rocket
things and the ladder truck. MALE PARTICIPANT: So, you're looking for
these booster pumps from our assets that DoD has? MALE PARTICIPANT: Yes. Yes, or any place
NEAL R. GROSS
COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
197
in the U.S. Government. MALE trucks, however, PARTICIPANT: probably Right. have And the to come fire from
would
unless
you
have
information that's different. MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: if we had military them up, bases We'll work it. We'll work it. Yes. I But, mean, Okay? even they
I mean, could
here,
MALE PARTICIPANT:
MALE
PARTICIPANT:
Strap
them
on
the
MALE PARTICIPANT: 1E it to DoD to figure out. MALE PARTICIPANT: 2C 21 MALE the attributes, PARTICIPANT:
Well,
let's
just
leave
just
give
them
22
23 24 25
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198 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 2 can mount mounted on they makes JOHN somehow, yes. MALE those PARTICIPANT: in a monitor Yes, do you Or know is if MONAGER: That sit on the ground
version?
that
only for at the top of the ladder truck? JOHN MONAGER: them on They make both kinds. or they're You
physically called
ladder
think
they're
monitor nozzles. MALE PARTICIPANT: nozzle on the ground, that high. JOHN MONAGER: No, it It will. can. They've got both it's But if it's a monitor
Yes,
yes.
if and
whatever it
there with the head launch from the ocean and, the height of the reactor building, which
COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. WASHINGTON. D.C. 20005-3701
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199 1 2 3 MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE change there? MALE PARTICIPANT: for that. MALE number, PARTICIPANT: We don't have the We don't have a number PARTICIPANT: Yes. What's the elevation
4
5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 30. But if
but you could probably -MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: Less than 30 meters. Yes. So, it's probably
ocean,
what we'll find. MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: less than 30 meters. MALE PARTICIPANT: is Yes, but that's what Okay. Yes, but it's something
21
23
you can't draw that much volume that far away with the fire trucks.
--
24 2
24
So,
that's
why you
need
some
booster
pump
MALE PARTICIPANT:
Right,
right.
NEALR, GROSS
COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
200 1 2 3 4 5 6
7 that's
--
PARTICIPANT:
--
to
pump
by
the
PARTICIPANT: So,
Well,
the tsunami
was
MALE PARTICIPANT:
MALE PARTICIPANT:
Fifty.
-50 feet. So, it's
probably more like 30 feet height difference, meters, 30 feet, I would believe. Yes, it's very
not 30
likely
departments
have
MALE PARTICIPANT:
We've got
the general
MALE
One
other
thing
they blew
that, is So,
these
buildings
the debris
blocking them getting real close can you throw in Is a bulldozer? any type I mean of
there
that?
they
probably designed stuff for Chernobyl and all. MALE PARTICIPANT: Well, when asking for
NEAL R.GROSS
COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
I9MV Md4.kq4.L WASHINGTON. D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealraross.com
201 1 2 3 4 path. MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE path, PARTICIPANT: Yes. They need to clear a anything, ask for whatever we can get. MALE PARTICIPANT: They need to clear a
5
6 7 8 9 10
1
and their radiation fields are screaming. MALE PARTICIPANT: Do they have anything vehicles to do their
there
in
terms
of
shielded
12 13 1 1
out of this and make a phone call. MALE PARTICIPANT: Okay. I know the
Ukrainians have that. MALE lead come, just PARTICIPANT: the blocks I mean lead, and all? how does Is there
pelletized lead? MALE 1 20 21 22 23 24 25 Officer. wondering, PARTICIPANT: lead. And That's I what I was
pelletized
Do
you
have
other
NEAL R. GROSS
COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE.. N.W.
202 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 (inaudible), the line? BILL BORCHARDT: Yes, I did. We're then, go something. MALE PARTICIPANT: Hey, Bill, you came on assets that you're recommending or have you gone
have lead shielding from the outages. MALE PARTICIPANT: to need a lot more than that. MALE PARTICIPANT: Yes, but it's Of course, we're going
getting ready to meet with the Chairman and, into the hearing. I'm calling to see if
there was
anything that changed that I need to let the Chairman know about. MALE PARTICIPANT: Thanks, Bill. This is
19 20
18>
22 23
/ 24
25
N
l
.
n
A.4
WA~S.INnTON
wwO-.7A1
wuw nAIlrnrmq
rnm'
~203
13 14
15 16
17 18 19 20 21i 22 23 2 2BILL BORCHARDT: MALE that phone call don't know who it that PARTICIPANT: typed it All right. Somebody it that was on I
up and sent
to him.
was that he got a copy it. they So, have we got some that
cleared
reading
NEAL R.GROSS
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1 2 3
4.. Bil.l?
You got any questions on that, BILL BORCHARDT: MALE PARTICIPANT: a TEPCO meeting. some help on No.
4
5 6 7 8 9 10 !1 12 13 14 1 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 2 25 great. Operations know, you came in,
we had to
receptive
maybe
working on trying to design some kind of systems to move assets to American installations
the plant as we can to pre-stage assets, piping, all to stray the spent-fuel pools. And extensive list they've also given us
qui te
an
that. they wanted 'fo themselves. So, we're just now getting started. on As the
we're for:
just the
started and,
system
pools
then,
especially thing.
and
MALE And I
Well, suggestion
that is
be the up
Center,
Operations
Center,
COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON. D.C. 20005-3701 www.tteatrgross.com
205 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Chuck. Mike Weber, anything else? No, it's Charlie, Charlie? We haven't Bill. Sorry. had a ourselves. maybe the been trying to push up there for a day or two. we're saying, yes, move And
an American facility nearby. And Ops so, I think can between us INPO locate and all DoD, this
Center
help
equipment. BILL BORCHARDT: MALE PARTICIPANT: For instance, Okay. And we're adding some
that we know that they're going to need long-term. BILL BORCHARDT: Right. Okay. Thanks,
CHARLIE MILLER: BILL BORCHARDT: CHARLIE MILLER: chance to tell has got Chuck yet,
but the Reactor Safety Team recommendations given with regard that they we We
some alternative
structural
And
recommend that
need a way to be able to deliver sand. MALE PARTICIPANT: up onto the conference bridge. BILL BORCHARDT: NEAL R.GROSS
COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
Yes,
that's
fine,
pools that have geometry for water and some pools that might be sand. CHARLIE MILLER: BILL know, BORCHARDT: Right. So, we go both. You
pools
1, 2,
(inaudible,
JACZKO:
Charlie Miller here. NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: CHARLIE MILLER: Fine. Hey, John, can you Hi. How are you?
Just very high level on what the technical basis, 1, what is going on at the site? Chairman, we've got pools that
Mr.
spent-fuel
25
have lost their ability to be able to hold the fuel. NEAL R.GROSS
COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE.. NW.
I~~V~
V)~~
~ACAQUIdfTM~I
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207 1 2
3
CHAIRMAN
JACZKO:
Okay.
I'm sorry.
CHARLIE MILLER:
Charlie --
4 5
NRC CHAIRMAN can you just speak a bit more slowly? CHARLIE there are at least little
JACZKO:
Oh,
whoever and a
it
is,
bit louder
little
MILLER: one,
Okay.
Mr.
maybe two,
spent-fuel
9 10 11 12 13 1 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 2
that have lost their ability to contain the fuels. other words, it's It uncovered. may be just the It's in
(inaudible),
Therefore,
radiation levels from that are going way up, getting much larger reading. with the conditions We think,
that we need to expand the recommendation, recommendation for evacuation. NRC because fuel the CHAIRMAN JACZKO: Okay. of are
So, the
it's spentwe to is
radiation the
levels, radiation no
because levels
integrity, that
high, actions
believe undergo,
there's
other mitigative
NEALR.GROSS
COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE.. N.W.
208
I
2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 11 12 13 14 1 1 17
unless Chuck has information we don't. CHUCK CASTO: Yes, they've pretty sir, much I Yes, think thanks, our Charlie. feeling to is that
abandoned
attempts
mitigate
particularly the spent-fuel pools. NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: point, we expect that will Got it. progress So, to at some a more
And we're
in
the process,
seems they are somewhat receptive to devising a whether pool, water or sand, depending strategy on the
but devising a
and moving
18
19 20 21 22 2 2
2
assets
towards
onto American facilities to pre-stage. NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MALE getting access? CHUCK more, CASTO: I've got, we're getting PARTICIPANT: Okay. And, Chuck, are you
NEAL R.GROSS
COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. nr C 'fflO-fq7f1 ~WAR-INWSTnN V2AA~4'
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I'~fl~
209 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 regulators, government TEPCO, CHUCK CASTO: Conti. it's is not We've got access to the
meetings, though
even
And my understanding
TEPCO EOC and the regulators -MALE PARTICIPANT: CHUCK CASTO: Okay. No, I'm sorry, the
NISA's EOC,
Our push is
to continue to
get access to TEPCO's Emergency Operations Center. MALE PARTICIPANT: CHUCK CASTO: for the regulator, be fantastic. we're It Okay. looks like we've got it That will then, some you real
And good.
know,
give
information. NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: for the reactor conditions? CHUCK CASTO: The Reactor Safety Team What is the timing
people are probably the best people to answer that. MALE just got out of PARTICIPANT: a meeting We with asked the them --we the They not
22 23
24 25
for
reactors,
currently believe
NEAL R.GROSS
COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701
(202) 234-4433
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210 1 2 3 sure what but the levels are in the reactor pressure for
vessel,
they do
believe
they have
injection
all the reactors. MALE PARTICIPANT: do not have instrumentation, Let's be clear. Chairman. They
They have no
6 7 8 4 9 5
instrumentation, in
that's
water
level.
into
making
you
presumption
we really
that
don't
going
know,
know,
is
it
or isn't
12 13 1 10 15 16 17
There's no confirmation
actually going anywhere. NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: Okay. then? Yes. And, then, also, So, we still
11
concur with the recommendations, MALE PARTICIPANT: I would say, to meet on Chairman, this
spent-fuel
19 20 21 22 23 24 25
morning at 10 o'clock
from now. I mean --
or something.
That's 12 hours
Okay.
we
Yes.
don't see --
that's not a sense of urgency here. NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MALE PARTICIPANT: Yes. 12 hours from
You know,
NEAL R.GROSS
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211 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2 21 22 23 21 2 I mean go ahead, now, to have a meeting about a mitigation strategy for
the spent-fuel pool. NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MALE PARTICIPANT: Mr. Chairman, So, Okay. we're just going to
and start moving what we think is site and get or it staged wherever. on So,
American that,
installations,
ultimately,
someone at a high
the stuff into the site. NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: So, Chuck, anything? Okay. Okay. Good. calm -those right but
we're
forward
NEAL R.GROSS
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1 2 3 4
5 7
8 9
11 12 13 14 1 16 1 18 19 2 2 22 23 24 25
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we're good with all four of them and ready to go. NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: CHUCK mode, CASTO: now that Okay. Good. into got the that
We're
moving
a lot more aggressive on the mitigation side. NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: Okay. for the And just to folks we the in
9 10 11 12 13 14 1 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
confirm,
and
this the
may is
be still
event action
driven, by
think, reactor
protective
standpoint is
PARTICIPANT:
alone,
that's the biggest change at this point recommendation. Okay. I Okay. that's an
think
important subtlety. NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: terms of the 50 miles, last I Okay. knew, Okay. But in
more from the Unit 2 than from the spent-fuel pool. MALE PARTICIPANT: Yes, and I think the is,
information we're getting for protective measures even if you add the others, it's going
to get a lot
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214 1 2 3
4
But if
think you're going to see the thing to the point where that's probably still the appropriate recommendation
5
6
Okay.
given the current
7 8 9 10 1 12 13 14 1 1
17
meteorological conditions and everything. NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: Well, thanks, everybody. Yes. Okay. Okay.
Good work.
Keep at it.
I'm going to go testify. MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE Chairman. NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT:
--
PARTICIPANT:
Thank you.
18 19 2C 21 22 23
24
BILL interrupt
BORCHARDT:
This
is
Bill.
Let
me
I want to make
sure that I'm clear when I talk to the Chairman. The thought was due change to in our recommendations about I the
Chuck's
understanding
25
BILL BORCHARDT:
Yes,
go ahead.
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215
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 2 that it's one, the new, MALE PARTICIPANT: it get In gone. Our understanding of
the Unit 4 spent-fuel pool is the side bottom of such that it will fuel.
the active
effect, Whereas,
the reactor
building are
explosion went upwards and took the top, lead us to believe that the sides are gone. BILL BORCHARDT: additional pool, source-term, which is Right. which us
the pictures
it's Unit
the 4 our
spent-fuel
causing
to change
recommendation for protective action? MALE PARTICIPANT: the Unit 4, long-term. up here, because it The unit they had Now that's not a worst
showed
reaction
going, and the Unit ls and 2s were boiling. CHUCK CASTO: I Bill, this is Chuck.
think the other part of that was we've and and final
just not seen any mitigation of any of the events, we would just all take the all four the spent-fuel into pools the
probably
reactors
conclusion because we've not seen any mitigation. BILL BORCHARDT: CHUCK CASTO: Yes, So, right. you've got to assume
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216
1
2 3 4 5 6
BORCHARDT:
Fine.
Okay.
And
8 9 10 11 12 13 14 1 16 17 18 19 2 21 22 23 24
2
RASCAL
on Unit 2. JIM TRAPP: It's based Yes, on Bill, the this is Jim Trapp. and the case
RASCAL
runs,
And what our RASCAL run said was worst-case, (inaudible, possibly "pit") 4,
2 meltdown with no fission product barriers. So, that's why the Chairman remembered
that and was more focused on Unit 2. BILL BORCHARDT: make sure that if no one Yes, but I just want he says to as
takes, anything
and maybe
--
this is
NEAL R.GROSS
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Right,
right.
Okay.
"nuclear")
is
Daiichi,
right?
Daiene
emergency,
fuel cooling at Daiene. BILL BORCHARDT: go track the Chairman down. MALE PARTICIPANT: MARGIE: This is Margie? CHUCK CASTO: MARGIE: Hey, Yes, Marge. Okay, so yesterday flow for maybe from 10 Can I I've got it. Thanks, guys. I've got to
Chuck.
we started getting a pretty good information a little while. But we It got did stop an after about flow
hours.
information
Mopa
a contact that we have here. result, we them called to give in us some the that
we
told
Japanese,
and we started
to get
I can try to go through those informal panels right now, if that will help. I don't know
218 CHUCK CASTO: Margie, I think some of that And we're setting the channels are
6 7 8 9 1 11 12 13 14 1 1 17 18 19 2 21 22 23
today,
tell
you
over a beverage someday. opening back up. Let's if it you suggest, until if
if
you don't mind, let's try to give our time, Is and, that
then, okay?
MARGIE:
Well,
but I
want to be clear here. guys. Mopa. CHUCK understand that. MARGIE: it, to if be CASTO: It was a
back-panel
Right.
Yes.
Yes,
we
Okay.
but we can
sit
on
stuff, sit --
get
something,
you want
24
2
CHUCK CASTO:
on
NEAL R.GROSS
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219
I
2
3
it
MARGIE:
CHUCK
Okay.
CASTO:
--
how
the
dialog
CHUCK CASTO: 7 8 9 1 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 2 we'll minute. -CHARLIE MILLER: to inject. But get back let's go here, again. We want were giving us. CHUCK CASTO: Charlie. I'm sorry. the problem. MARGIE: CHARLIE Yes. MILLER:
we pursue it,
then
MARGIE:
CHUCK CASTO:
Okay.
Chuck,
that you
Okay.
ahead with
Tim,
and,
then, in a
inject here
Thank you.
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220 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 1 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 2 the water CHUCK CASTO: the equipment. Okay, we were talking about
Filters,
hoses,
fittings, if
I we
guess monitors to shoot the water, can get it. And right now,
a bulldozer, is getting
John
the of
those pumps need as far as net positive suction heads, heights, getting. MALE PARTICIPANT: CHUCK soon as we can. MALE PARTICIPANT: CHUCK CASTO: into these Okay. CASTO: Okay. get that to you as and everything. That's what I believe he's
We'll
pools
earlier
when
they
were
injecting
borated
seawater.
They had those intermediate pools setup. a possibility. pumping into an So, if
That's still
intermediate
I know you mentioned earlier that you had some other mitigating work. NEAL R. GROSS
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actions
221 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 lost, pool. CHUCK could put water in CASTO: them, But the other ones, if we because morning, CHARLIE MILLER: Yes. and The Reactor Safety I'm going to let it
Dave Skeen walk you through what they are because would pools, change at of least for the pools, have lost
course,
that
going
meeting
and we'll give this info to them. DAVE SKEEN: Okay. That's great, Chuck.
We've been doing some brainstorming here, trying to figure out if on 3 and 4 spent-fuel they've really lost integrity pools. The structural people
are saying there's really no use to put water on there anymore because all you're going to do is contamination. As it steams, spread the
I think they only have one spent-fuel pool that's lost geometry, right, and lost structure. Unit 4, we think they
DAVE SKEEN:
Yes,
you still
would want
to put
NEAL R. GROSS
COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
222 water in them, wouldn't you? MALE water in speak know, it in them, but PARTICIPANT: Yes. If we can get
now,
One of them,
seismically, might be cracked, DAVE SKEEN: been dry this long, it's already if
Right.
(inaudible,
CHUCK CASTO:
DAVE SKEEN:
Yes.
-by putting water in there
and
steaming
it,
all
you're
doing
is
spreading
the
contamination with the steam at some point. CHUCK Dave, let's CASTO: Yes. But, like I said,
go both paths.
and 2 are headed the same way and, have to do sand there. CHUCK CASTO: and 2, do Right. both 3
You're paths.
right. So,
Let ' s
go
ahead I and
solution and 4,
recoi mend
water;
since
they had
NEAL R. GROSS
COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
223 zirc/water reactions, 2 3 4 to do something different. Yes, and that's probably just
DAVE SKEEN:
drop sand and try to shield, you're trying to cut down dose at this point. So, you're just trying to cover
up the ruble that's left. CHUCK CASTO: 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 you know. DAVE SKEEN: CHUCK CASTO: And, a crust built up. DAVE SKEEN: That's right. too. Right, So, because also, it Yes. Go about spreading it. depends on whether there is Now did you read the NUREG? Dave, it can about putting water help. They still
recommend it. DAVE SKEEN: CHUCK CASTO: Right. It depends on how you do it,
you'll be insulating the ruble, going to build up and it's at some point,
let the things be hot and burn a little if the shield is insulated, So, or is that's it the
even
more
contamination?
NEAL R.GROSS
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224 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 1 19 20 2 22 23 24 2 you can get is from a you, we there, you can probably get better information than we have. CHUCK CASTO: to haul yet. Well, in they thought about They
sand or water.
Yes,
right.
some
just
talking rate
you should
And it's
hundreds of thousands
of rads right now about 20 meters above the spent-fuel pool. CHUCK CASTO: helicopter isn't Okay. an Yes. isn't So, dropping really an
option,
option. DAVE SKEEN: some data But what I would say is, that that, tells you what if
the dose is
really now,
coming off
that will help you. And if you look back at Chernobyl, one of
the lessons they learned from that from the helicopter pilot -I think they had eight pilots that flew until basically -the cables that they had to
they died,
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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 2 2 too. NEAL R.GROSS
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to the reactor they were taking more dose. CHUCK CASTO: DAVE SKEEN: Yes. So, if there's a way that the they can
pilots may know what are the longest cables use, if they start dropping material,
to give them as
We're going to do both strategies. water. DAVE forget starting they had about SKEEN: 5 and Okay. 6.
And, You
also, know,
don't they're
Units
too.
generator
working,
the Unit
spent-fuel of the
pool had dropped to about within six feet fuel, but they were thinking that
top of the
diesel from Unit 6. CHUCK CASTO: had cross-tied. into their But, Yes, we had heard that they as we're they invite to us get
hopefully, hopefully,
meetings,
going
more and more information as we go here. DAVE SKEEN: Yes, that's what our hope is,
www.nealrgross.com
226 CHUCK CASTO: 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 1 17 18 19 20 21 4, I Okay. DAVE SKEEN: think you've got But, from what we can tell on to try to somehow will taking Well, of we Unit from if recommended 2, because but that that not
allow
them
access
above,
or whatever is
DAVE
SKEEN: field went into the secondary over the top you could
the debris
probably dump sand on top of that debris field that's the pool and that would give you some
but you may not get down completely to the the spent-fuel pool on that Unit 3. again, we're just
ruble pile in
And,
22
23 24 2
NEAL R.GROSS
COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
51
7 DAVE SKEEN: 9 1 1 12 13 1 1 16 17 18 19 2 2 22 23 2 2 CHUCK CASTO: All right. So, I want to get these guys
out of here and get over to TEPCO. MALE quick question. pumps, these in is it PARTICIPANT: All right, Chuck, a
The assets that you asked for, your understanding that time? the Navy
these has
Or do we have
to go out and search for it? CHUCK CASTO: No, Admiral Mueller has -Okay. Mueller has them
Admiral
All
right.
So,
you
want us to engage Admiral Mueller right now, for additional information? CHUCK CASTO: need those pumps. MALE PARTICIPANT: Okay. Yes,
not wait
NEAL R.GROSS
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19M
pumps to the closest American installation that he can get them to, 4 5 to the site, until we get permission to
bring them into the site. MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: All right. Got it.
7 because 9 10
But give him the whole list lot more pumping pumps that
they have access to that we could use. MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: Okay. Got it. We've got. And I'm going to go I'm All right.
13 12 13
Okay.
can we
fax this list? 15 1 from TEPCO, 191 2 21 22 23 24 25 the case. another list, would, I will email the RST, what these specs are
as soon as we get them. And we're going to, material and I'm going to fax you And if if you you
Charlie
Dave,
great
could hook up with Admiral Mueller. phone number there. CHARLIE MILLER:
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229 1 2 3 4 5 who can do CHUCK what. CASTO: It's Yes, and INPO, going have and decide to an be the
Admiral.
I'm guessing
aircraft
carrier or a C5. (Laughter.) So, it's probably going to keep to have to be -in, it might
7 8
but,
nevertheless,
INPO plugged
1 11 12 13 1 1 1 1 18 1 2 21 22 23 24
25
you know,
you've
but if
done your
INPO
--
work
with
the
Reactor
Safety
their recommendations on how to address the spent-fuel pools, I know our guys are great and they're bright
because of a lot of experience Exelon and others have. It would be nice if we could see if they have any
We're with I
This is
Dave Skeen.
--
NEAL R. GROSS
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Okay, you
great. on
If the
Admiral
and
INPO
and
guys
strategies
identified,
then when the guys get back from TEPCO, to have some more design needs, it.
they're going
for you --
PARTICIPANT:
All right,
CHUCK CASTO:
Yes.
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T' 1
5 6 7 8 9 1 1 12 13 14 1 1 1 1 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
sir. BILL BORCHARDT: MALE PARTICIPANT: BILL BORCHARDT: room. The hearing has Thank you. Hey, Hi. Bill. So, we're in but we're a back just
started,
caucusing,
going over some facts. And what I just wanted to do was triplerecommendation- that Given we the that
check would
the have
evacuation a similar
circumstance. and
spent-fuel it's
on
Unit
the possibility
be the
appropriate evacuation distance? MALE PARTICIPANT: that, Charlie? CHARLIE MILLER: at it, Bill. MALE PARTICIPANT: CHARLIE MILLER: is Mike's up there. Okay. Currently, as it Yes. Let me take a shot Do you want to answer
conditions,
we would
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232 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8But 9 10 1 12 13 14 1 1 1 1 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 calculations Yes. CHARLIE that, MILLER: if the And wind they've shifts, even they got could saying is, So, we need some help from there to go out further
than that. But we've got some calculations that at 50 miles you would be getting doses beyond would protective only come action recommendations. if there's that show that are Now this shift,
into play
a wind
which is
into that with regard to the percentage of core melt and the number of pools that have lost their
integrity. BILL BORCHARDT: MALE it All right. So, then, what Charlie is to
PARTICIPANT:
could be worse;
message there would be that that recommendation potentially be altered if the situation
continues
degrade or does not get any better. MALE PARTICIPANT: Like beyond 50 miles.
would
NEAL R.GROSS
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233 1 2 3
4
"love")
to have anybody run with that. BILL BORCHARDT: Okay. But even burn if, I
mean,
out
--
if
the
zirc
itself
5
6
CHARLIE MILLER:
BILL BORCHARDT:
Right,
-and,
right.
then, the release
7 8 9 1 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
slows significantly down then? MALE PARTICIPANT: BILL BORCHARDT: Right. I mean it's kind of like
a finite time period burst of radioactivity that would be released? CHARLIE MILLER: BILL BORCHARDT: CHARLIE that, but you've too, MILLER: also that got, are Right. Right? Well, you it would be for core of than
know, in.
the And,
conditions, course,
weighing are
one spent-fuel
would relate over a 24-hour period about zirc fire CHARLIE MILLER: BILL again? NEAL R.GROSS
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was a
BORCHARDT:
www.nealrgross.com
234
I
PARTICIPANT:
It's
sustained worth of
2 3 4 5 6 7
you're talking
about a day's
CHARLIE MILLER: release should you put in exercise protective action. MALE PARTICIPANT:
Absolutely.
Oh,
yes,
a 24-hour pool. CHARLIE MILLER: the point is we don't it's make Yes, right, right. that But we
any assumptions
(inaudible),
sure you appreciate that. MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE definitely want to PARTICIPANT: evacuate not Yes. And you would because
(inaudible)
Yes.
Right.
Okay. that
I
it's
know
nice,
and
there's
three
cores'
worth
of
inventory
and
four
NEAL R.GROSS
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235 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 1 17 18 19 2C 21 22 23 24 2 sure of basis. we're if "revisit" right now. spent-fuel would that pools, and if you had all that activity,
cause us
to revisit
the U.S.
territories
issue that we're saying, you know, all along that it's extremely
would be any radiation exposure to the U.S. its and territories. four fuel But if
coast or
get us to revising that statement? CHARLIE first. Okay? BILL BORCHARDT: CHARLIE MILLER: Yes. Revising it, of course, MILLER: That's All exactly right, what he said doing
we're
would depend upon the meteorological MALE PARTICIPANT: we have one second to answer, CHARLIE MILLER: BILL BORCHARDT: MALE that. And doing PARTICIPANT: No. Okay. But
conditions.
we
want
to
source-term then,
analysis
(inaudible).
we go to NARAC,
but NARAC is
NEAL R. GROSS
COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701
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236 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 right. expectation. CHARLIE MILLER: It wou ldn't be a what I three Tokyo, too. MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: Right. Yes, and that's
the priority
MALE PARTICIPANT:
we need to --
So,
MALE PARTICIPANT:
appropriate because --
BILL BORCHARDT:
MALE PARTICIPANT:
Yes.
-that :'s
the
first-
order priority. BILL BORCHARDT: Sure. similar to from the would at the
was making before about the releases reactors and the four spent-fuel
pools
MALE PARTICIPANT:
Yes,
likelihood of that. BILL BORCHARDT: Thank you. MALE PARTICIPANT: Hey, Bill? Right. Yes. Okay. All
NEAL R.GROSS
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237
I 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 i1
16
apparently,
very concerned about the nuclear emergency. BILL BORCHARDT: MALE PARTICIPANT: people to pull together on Okay. You know, the he asked his and the
tsunami
there is
grave situation. BILL BORCHARDT: MALE PARTICIPANT: BILL BORCHARDT: Right. Okay? Thanks. And that's Okay.
17 1 19 2 2 22 23 24 2 Bill.
All right.
Bye.
NEAL R.GROSS
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238 1 (CONFERENCE CALL INITIATED) MIKE: 3 Hi, John. Hey, how you doing, Mike?
my lord, that is
Hey,
went up to a meeting at TEPCO and met with a couple of individuals little from the regulatory body, and they were a didn't make much
two and a half hours ago, wanted to meet again So, and
met with them for a few hours to try to spec out some of this equipment. I'm not sure call earlier today, MIKE: Mike. I do. I've got the turnover. Okay. So, that's what we for the if you were involved in the
JOHN MONAGER:
more specifications
for cooling
four spent-fuel pools. MIKE: JOHN Okay. MONAGER: And the bottom line is,
NEAL R.GROSS
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239
well, would one is like they haven't to talk in accepted more it yet, but about they it
much
detail
4
tomorrow. But the bottom line is they need something by the weekend. 5
9
leave it
6 7 8 13 14 9 10 21 12 13
guess
the
this
people
approval
we met
today
with weren't
and two of them are with the Ministry, METI. MIKE: Okay. So, you know, it's just the as I'm
You're with
14 16 17
opposed
not sure
MIKE:
what do you need from us? We're going to describe, And I will I
work
23
Okay.
Do
you
want
the
Reactor
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1
2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 1 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2 21 22 23 24 25
minute or keep rolling? MIKE: No, go. So, for the thought is each, one a fourseparate,
independent train for each spent-fuel pool. MIKE: JOHN starting strainers. think about are, to make at the Okay. MONAGER: ocean. And So, you're you going need to be
suction
sure whatever
through
strainer doesn't clog up the fire nozzle. MIKE: JOHN strainers. Then, Right. MONAGER: you're You going know, so a suction of
to have
length
piping from the ocean up onto the beach, you know, 20-30 meters or so. And
that
change will be about 10 meters or so. So, going to put in right there, the notion is they're that need
241 JOHN 2 3 4 5 before was the MONAGER: pumps were The too problem far away. they've So, had now
they're doing two pumps. the beach and, building. So, then,
pumps
you would need four diesel-driven fire the beach with a capacity for 10
meters of suction head. 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2C 21 22 23 24 2 put, then, And, 4, MIKE: Okay. And, then, for Units 1 and away. So, For
JOHN MONAGER:
500 meters
for each of those, you need 500 meters of piping. the units in between, both of those. MIKE: Okay. 2 and 3,
MALE PARTICIPANT:
the ocean to the launch point -JOHN MONAGER: actually, we didn't Yes, to the launch point. they need any
look whether
elbow bends or any of that kind of stuff. Then, the at the end of that piping you will diesel-driven spray pumps with a
capable
of shooting to a height of greater than 50 meters from a distance of greater than 100 meters. NEAL R. GROSS
(202) 234-4433 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. WASHINGTON. D.C. 20005-3701 wwwneairgross.com
somehow
planted on cannons,
call
them fire
go ahead.
8 9 i 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 2 nozzles.
JOHN MONAGER:
Yes,
then it
you would
need
and transportable
the radiation
or whatever.
they just drive the truck up to those two points and the people I'm not get out of there extremely means with quickly. this So, piping
sure what
that comes
all
because I imagine it
You know,
be highly movable and transportable. MALE PARTICIPANT: they're wanting us have these things to provide on a trailer Okay. I don't but think if we
the trucks, or
something,
that's
(202) 234-4433
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243 1 2 3 4 5 running it. JOHN MONAGER: And operation, which I MALE PARTICIPANT: Installation and
think they would be probably the biggest issue so far. MALE PARTICIPANT: JOHN MONAGER: described, the line first there could be Yes. with that system we or in in the such you pipe and
6
7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2 21 22 23 24 25 are going system.
Now,
you will
the
that you're able to suck boron from a tank. want some to way, be you able know, something the along
So, the
pathway mixed,
to have
boron
injected
in case they do need that. MALE PARTICIPANT: JOHN MONAGER: Anything else? Yes. So, that's one
Then, as a backup system, with aerial booms. MALE PARTICIPANT: JOHN MONAGER: to and lift the up,
water cannon
sitting on
the top
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244 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 1i 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2C 21 2 23 24 2 minimum, Are you saying one per unit? One for Unit 4,
or what?
a minimum. the
one for each unit, and the same way how we're one train for each. Okay. with that diesel if not 12, pumps
You know,
storage tank, you've got at least 8, there. You've You've got four got of
storage tanks or whatever makes sense. MALE PARTICIPANT: Now what kind of head
do you need between the booster pump location and the base of the building? right? JOHN MONAGER: MALE from the ocean to Now the 10 meters was It's 27 meters
--
That's a 10-meter
(inaudible),
PARTICIPANT:
--
total
JOHN MONAGER:
So,
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245 1 2 3 then, you know, to add a little conservatism, then, 20 meters, 10 the
5 6 7 8 9 10 1 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23
24
(inaudible,
possibly convert
millisieverts
Three
millisieverts is the rad field around there right now. MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: That's 30 R per hour. There you go.
Yes.
do
center onsite where they said that it 300 millirem, is what they tell us. JOHN MONAGER:
good, you know,
Then,
we went
into
some
all
246
1 Then, the other notion, you know, some
2
3
type of remote-control
rad field
for measurement
One thing, we went back and forth on Unit the spent-fuel whatever, pool and the notion of sand, because we believe the walls dirt, were
clay,
blown out and the water level is active bit, fuel. and we
They said they don't have any indications They believe, which would be true, there
will be screaming radiation levels if knocked out. They said the walls,
*
but the spentan aerial, floor, and,
out,
fuel pool wall may not be the outermost wall. They showed us an aerial view, eye schematic the pool is of the spent-fuel (inaudible, NEALR. GROSS
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247 wall"). 2 3 4 that, So, Unit 4, they had the a decent level of confidence hadn't been
spent-fuel
pool
walls to
blown out
flood that up
6 7
9 1 11 12 13 14 15 1 1 1 19 20 2 22 23 24 2 can't know.
But,
MALE progress?
PARTICIPANT:
Are
there
fires
in
They didn't
MALE
PARTICIPANT:
You
know,
we
don't
Yes, 2.
they
also
said
they think
on Unit
They don't
MALE
PARTICIPANT:
This
is
the
Headquarters Ops Officer. Mr. conference bridge. Mr. Borchardt, are you there, sir? Hey, Bill? Borchardt is coming up on the
MALE PARTICIPANT:
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248 BILL BORCHARDT: 2 3 MALE PARTICIPANT: This is Hey, Bill Borchardt. Bill, we're in the
How can
BILL BORCHARDT:
We're just looking for another last-minute there's been any recent developments. MALE is PARTICIPANT: we're that Well, the most with recent and
what
Chuck
Monager. Toshiba
had a they
meeting finally
officials,
and
identified them
potential with
equipment their
needs
contend
degraded
conditions. And so, we're going to get rolling on that what could be arranged back through the
terms of delivering some of this equipment would be needing the spent-fuel to cool pool the fuel. 4 is They as
think
for
Unit
degraded as we thought. BILL BORCHARDT: from the U.S. Now they haven't accepted actively engaged in
They're
the discussions and interested? MALE PARTICIPANT: BILL BORCHARDT: Right. Okay.
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minimum, we can do what we need to do to see if line this up. BILL BORCHARDT: MALE PARTICIPANT: Right. And, then, it
we can
will be
up to them to decide,
are they going to ask for it? Yes. And they really
Right.
Well,
that
guess
somewhat
halfway
decent good news on the RTS on the reactor on all four units. They said, for the past 48 hours, they have
continued to inject,
low-pressure core spray system, which is better you're than a LPSI. down Low-pressure from the top.
core So,
spraying, LPSI, if
spraying
you're worried,
you know,
you're relying upon steam cooling. core news. Also -MALE PARTICIPANT: NEAL R.GROSS For spray is better than that.
all
four
units,
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250 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19
20
John? JOHN MONAGER: units, yes. MALE PARTICIPANT: gagged open, ensuring with They had the SRVs not They told us for all four
but the SRVs are wide open and they are air pressure the SRVs stay open, and
they keep pressure less than .1 megapascal within the primary system. Another for the reactor, for thing, I guess the success path 2,
the spent-fuel
pool
on Unit
they just right now have a small blowout panel They don't believe that hole is So, forth on ways we went to big enough.
hole.
back and
deliberately
make
reactor building. BILL BORCHARDT: again. This is Bill. I'm sorry to interrupt
We're still
Yes.
here.
-you
21 22 23 24 2
were telling me about the assessment of Unit 4. MALE PARTICIPANT: fuel pool does not appear to Yes, be the Unit 4 spentas degraded it may still the need as we be to
thus,
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COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
251
1
2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 IC 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2 2 22 23 2 25
get water into that fuel pool. BILL BORCHARDT: MALE that they are Okay. John use was describing core
PARTICIPANT: continuing to
low-pressure
spray to cool all four units. BILL BORCHARDT: on all four units? MALE PARTICIPANT: BILL BORCHARDT: MALE PARTICIPANT: BILL BORCHARDT: is that the wall was still not Right. For the reactor? Yes. And what you were saying damaged like we thought in Low-pressure core spray
loss of water
inventory
the spent-fuel pool. BILL BORCHARDT: MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE one idea. PARTICIPANT: So, we Okay. So, it's a thick -We had
(Inaudible). (inaudible,
(Inaudible).
possibly
high-level update for Bill and the Chairman, John? NEALR. GROSS
COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE, N.W.
252 JOHN interesting, 3 4 5 6 7 bulldozers they MONAGER: talk about One thing that in was the
the rad
fields
vicinity and being able to do work. these measurements are very high,
bulldozers cetera.
They talked about the dose rates once the go through decreasing significantly, by
And given the rad field, you causing that? if you rip apart your contamination, to believe in the
residual
really out
would there
lead me is
have
fuel
environment. And there you had the spent-fuel pool that You had a zirc/water reaction. You
spent-fuel
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253 MALE PARTICIPANT: 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 1 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 2 2 permission MALE to put PARTICIPANT: it on their Now we don't We have think equipment the vast. miles TEPCO So, away titled in issues were MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: Was that 20 to 30 R? Twenty to 30 R. Thank you. Yes. Some of the
frustrating
that they were dealing with. maybe it truck that was the Air Force or they did not take
advantage of. They have issues with vehicles that have to be not being
their country
escorted by
would have to be escorted and there's all restrictions on imports jazz, and all this, on
that kind of
if
you could get the directly actually you know, going onto quite 40-50
airlifted said is
they
to work
site yet.
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254 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 try to controversy. MALE PARTICIPANT: Yes. you know, to go? MALE PARTICIPANT: will cause a huge Yes. But the airlift, the Defense we're going to get that in it both sides, the morning. But we have
MALE PARTICIPANT:
issue with
Department. MALE Japanese craft. MALE PARTICIPANT: They could fly it PARTICIPANT: Yes, in. They also want but they have
Yes.
our people to install the equipment and operate it. MALE PARTICIPANT: Yes, that will be a
I think that's pretty much it. MALE anything else? BILL BORCHARDT: repeat back what No. you I think, were let me just me. we still reactor has been lost high but So PARTICIPANT: Bill, do you need
telling
they're injecting water into all the cores. believe cores. there's The fuel damage in all three
spent-fuel
levels
in
obvious
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255 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 1 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 because that we don't think anymore that the wall, pool, the has is
structural been
severely
potential
solely to refill
the path,
the rad levels went down? MALE the PARTICIPANT: bulldozers pushed Significantly away all down the
contamination or all the fuel. BILL BORCHARDT: MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: here to there. BILL BORCHARDT: Right. That's just Okay. All right.
confirming that there's been a significant release and a lot of (inaudible, possibly "flight out") in the
immediate area? MALE PARTICIPANT: BILL BORCHARDT: MALE Right. Okay. I've got it. When we said low-
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256 spray header that's taking it 2 3 that. Wait it, I lost it. a minute. I had one other -darn BILL BORCHAARDT: in -Yes, I understand
Yes.
4
5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 1 19 2 21 22 23 24 25 different changed with latest
there's
change
this
Chairman was on that call for? MALE PARTICIPANT: I would We not were say all at have
locations.
things
significant
enough
to change
any conclusions
you guys had. BILL BORCHARDT: MALE PARTICIPANT: Okay. Good. even though they
You know,
they said they've had core coolant for 48 hours, have no way to verify Mav Regardless, the thing's almost dry. So, you know, it.
All right.
anything --
I'm sorry?
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257 1 2 3 4 question. (inaudible, 6 7 MALE something for you. CHARLIE We're MILLER: getting Bill, third-hand I've got a PARTICIPANT: Bill, Charlie has
information is with
(phonetic)")
you and the Chairman. BILL BORCHARDT: CHARLIE MILLER: Not right now, no. We're getting requests
9 1
back from Public Affairs that the Chairman wants us to reduce the data (inaudible, possibly "runs") for the
haven't
really
been
CHARLIE MILLER:
16
17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
him going into the hearing, but I would advise that we talk to him first before we make any such commitment
as to exactly what was what. BILL BORCHARDT: CHARLIE MILLER: on that, okay? BILL BORCHARDT: CHARLIE MILLER: you, Bill. BILL BORCHARDT: All right. Yes, I think so. Okay, thank Okay. So, we're going to hold
All right.
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258 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 11 12 13 14 1 16 17 18 19 2 21 22 23 2 2 pelletized first, this They with them is have meeting JOHN MONAGER: with them tomorrow. So, we have a So, 10:00 a.m.
our hope is
we can
to work that,
to line
things up back here. But John's not dropping off yet. It's
just Bill and the Chairman dropping off. JOHN MONAGER: Okay. So, the next meeting
need for boron, John? JOHN MONAGER: they were like, well, system, were shouldn't we They We if put talked about it. At
like yes.
didn't
say,
needed boron. We lead. talked about lead said and shielding and
And they
they built
blankets
with tungsten or something like that. MALE refueling outage. MALE PARTICIPANT: Yes. PARTICIPANT: Yes, for their
NEAL R.GROSS
COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
259 MALE PARTICIPANT: 2 They have that available. MALE E two other things through you, MIKE WEBER: 6 7 came Center? MIKE WEBER: 10 1i 12 13 14 19 15 16 17 nation. MALE PARTICIPANT: shared some stuff. No, c came by and No. MALE in. Sure, Mike? sure. So, the that, other in the day, Ops PARTICIPANT: How about, can I run And they can use that.
PARTICIPANT: Do you
remember
8 13
iR
2[ 23
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2 3
6 7 8 9
12 1 12
13
interested interest,
helping, it's
everyone's
you know,
the culture or
the acceptability of requiring assistance from another nation or country. MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE these PARTICIPANT: discussions or Right, I'm right. wondering if if it we
negotiations
NEAL R.GROSS
COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
261 1 2 3 here. MALE PARTICIPANT: can do that or not. Yes, I'm not sure if but -we would not publicize that we are doing all this. MALE PARTICIPANT: We can work that back
MALE PARTICIPANT:
MALE PARTICIPANT:
just don't
go issuing a ton of press releases, 9 1 11 12 13 14 i 1 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 2 with and Casselberg. Related to boron, we understand what is MALE PARTICIPANT:
the sensitivity.
feasible. MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: Right. Okay. Anything else?
had a
conversation
channels --
and they can't actually find the source of that Japan was looking for boron. And
the request --
they located a stash at Diablo Canyon. And we and the Reactor Safety Team are
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requests,
found a military transport We need to know what form where they need it for how they're
to them.
and do
a plan
else do you need? 9 10 1 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 2J list. originator. MALE PARTICIPANT: Yes. It must be a wish list. JOHN MONAGER: Right. So, now there's also a
RICK CASSELBERG:
Tim has,
with Chuck,
was,
either.
PARTICIPANT:
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263
I
2 3 4 this stuff
Yes. or
with
the Government.
9
1
11
12 13 here.
Okay.
I think that's it
14
15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 maybe start that Charlie.
CHARLIE MILLER:
All right,
John.
This is
Have you got anything else of us back here of any nature? JOHN MONAGER: moving we're stuff aware in of Just let us just we let
know, us be
if know, able
you so to
closer, it, so
might
communicate that. CHARLIE MILLER: FEMALE thinking of All right. And Okay. we'll work on I
PARTICIPANT: some
saying,
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264 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 1 16 17 18 19 2C 21 22 23 24 25 26
(202) 234-4433
publish complete
it,"
maybe for
saying
like, it
"We'll and
give we're on
credit or
requesting But
whatever. it
we'll
work
think about
something
for someone to consider. MALE PARTICIPANT: that topic with them. Well, we didn't raise why
We were
just
wondering
you're probably right. MALE PARTICIPANT: FEMALE some things. MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: CHARLIE MILLER: MALE PARTICIPANT: very much for being there. MALE there. PARTICIPANT: Thank you for being Okay. All right. All right. Well, thank you, guys, Yes. Okay. But we'll work on
PARTICIPANT:
Okay. All
Thanks, right.
MONAGER:
265 (CONFERENCE CALL INITIATED) 2 3 4 MALE PARTICIPANT: JOHN MONAGER: we forgot to mention, or 6 7 8 9 1 11 12 13 1 1 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 2 NEAL R.GROSS
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John? Mike?
Hello, Hey,
Hey,
the
RST or maybe
folks
through
everything
blown apart.
and 4.
do
with
Unit
2,
where
you
(inaudible)? JOHN MONAGER: blowup panel that's Yes. And they have a small open, but they said
partially
purge any hydrogen. we floated ideas, which didn't go over too well, with even such things as a rocket-propelled You know, we
roofing
266
1 MALE PARTICIPANT: A helicopter with a
2
3
4
ball on it
or something?
JOHN MONAGER:
you
Yes,
know,
helicopter
with
possibly
concentrated
weight,
(inaudible,
5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
"buff them through"). MALE PARTICIPANT: that on this wall. it offline. JOHN MONAGER: Okay. All right. What size hole do you Yes. Hey, let's not do
We'll work
I don't know,
4 meters by 4
you know,
Wind's going to be all over the place. MALE PARTICIPANT: JOHN MONAGER: Yes.
they can't get people up there. Okay. Understood. the thoughts you know,
Yes,
one of
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267 1 2 3 these big forklifts with the big two prongs. on in it and pierce it, you know, piercing it Just go
and ripping
5 6 7
ideas was the ability of the plant. gone through so much that they're
9 1 1 1 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 2
hydrogen risk environment potentially? JOHN MONAGER: Potentially, yes. Yes. Okay. You know, they're worse
Okay.
than we would want. MALE PARTICIPANT: you're going through is Yes, and the material
them
siding.
corrugated,
tougher because of the typhoons and the But metal within thing, the but U.S., it's a can
environment. corrugated
things
definitely punch through it. MALE PARTICIPANT: JOHN MONAGER: Okay. So, it's stronger over
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MALE PARTICIPANT:
JOHN MALE JOHN
MONAGER:
PARTICIPANT: MONAGER:
All right.
Thank you.
Bye-bye. Bye-bye.
MALE PARTICIPANT:
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269
(CONFERENCE CALL INITIATED) MALE PARTICIPANT: Josh coming up. I don't hear him. this is Josh. Josh.
3
4
6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 OPA.
JOSH BATKIN: MIKE WEBER: JOSH BATKIN: MIKE WEBER: JOSH BATKIN:
Who's that, Webber? Webber. Hello, Hi. Two points for you and for sir.
release following the White House press release, which will be issued shortly, whether or not we also attach have used to come to those
17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
the
raw
data
that
we
conclusions. MIKE WEBER: JOSH clear, the BATKIN: Right. And from just the is yes. to be crystalas
directions
Chairman,
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270 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 call. CHARLIE MILLER: JOSH BATKIN: MIKE other agencies. JOSH BATKIN: MIKE WEBER: Correct, All right. correct. What we discussed WEBER: It's not our purview. we need discussing. it see simultaneously. the White If it is not ready right after we then is. trying to get that we do a quick
House
release,
ready right now, Josh. JOSH BATKIN: And, then, Okay. Great. Thank you. there were
four points that have been sent around today. MIKE WEBER: JOSH BATKIN: Yes. Point No. 4, we are 4. not
So, not
to make
sure all 4.
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271 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 literally so. The and what it paragraph in with respect to Point 1 is JOSH BATKIN: MIKE WEBER: front of -Yes? -the need to provide like a results to provide
those model
some context to it. JOSH BATKIN: MIKE WEBER: JOSH BATKIN: Sure. Okay. It should explain what it Absolutely. Because there could is Absolutely.
if a
to show
meteorological but
--
conditions.
You understand
JOSH BATKIN: MIKE WEBER: here among our technical blow make it out of
Right. -the sense I'm getting back you know, don't to the
proportion, we do
certain
that
have
recommendations But
paragraph that will provide that context. JOSH BATKIN: Okay. Great. I mean that
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272
ready to go soon.
2 3 MIKE WEBER: JOSH BATKIN: Okay. Okay. We're working it. Great. Any other
developments we need to talk to the Chairman or Bill 5 6 7 8 9 1 1 12 13 14 15 16 17 two? JOSH BATKIN: or something from earlier? MIKE WEBER: It was the one we discussed Within the last hour or two earlier call right now? MIKE that WEBER: You are aware from the for
the request
assistance from the Japanese? JOSH BATKIN: You're aware of the request Bill?
with him when John Monager was on the phone. JOSH BATKIN: John Monager was -yes, The one they discussed when he's aware. And so, we haven't formally And
18
19 20 21 22 23 24 25
so, we're trying to line up the equipment necessary to support that. JOSH received, BATKIN: Okay. Okay. Have Okay. not formally
Okay?
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273 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 1 1 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 JOSH BATKIN: MIKE WEBER: JOSH BATKIN: MIKE WEBER: JOSH BATKIN: MIKE WEBER: Okay. Thanks. Thank you. All righty. Josh out. Bye-bye. Thank you. Got it.
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COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
274 (CONFERENCE CALL INITIATED) 2 3 4 MIKE WEBER: Hi. Mike Webber. Hey, Mike. help. I I want to
MALE PARTICIPANT:
talk and offer you some technical guys are a highly-skilled technical
organization,
you want some folks to think out of you know, we kind of worked on the
8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2C 21 22 23
24
to know if
anybody like that in your Ops Center. MIKE WEBER: Sure. You're talking about
sending over some NRR staff? MALE PARTICIPANT: MIKE WEBER: MALE thinking is on a Sure. Yes. we'd welcome them. Okay. What I'm maybe
PARTICIPANT:
rotational
lab folks. we've been thinking through this thing and have some options. a lot different about, I'll bet you they're not a hell of
but we ought to talk through it. I don't know if you've seen this, but the
out
--
who
are
they?
--
the TEPCO
25
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275 saying, 2 3 guys. MIKE WEBER: Okay. "If you guys have any ideas, I've asked them to let us know." that with you
share
1 1 1 12 13
MIKE
Yes, folks
think
our
team
in
20
Tokyo is
doing
also,
from Toshiba.
22
23
Good. the
So, heck
what we're
24 25
sending you in
MIKE WEBER:
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276 1 2 3 MALE PARTICIPANT: their way to see you, guys will let them in I'll And once they head on so you
MIKE WEBER:
MALE PARTICIPANT: 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 2 2 Billings. MALE PARTICIPANT: BRIAN: Brian? BRIAN: Call up way?
to find you? MIKE WEBER: 2 White Flint. MALE PARTICIPANT: Okay. When they get We're on the fourth floor of
there, who should they ask for? MIKE WEBER: Who do you want them to see,
and
ask
for
Sally
Sally Billings?
be part of our Reactor Safety Team here. MALE PARTICIPANT: MIKE WEBER: Okay. that group is still
Because
brainstorming on what could be done to cool the pools and, also, cool the reactors. MALE PARTICIPANT: Okay. And you guys are
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277 1 2 3 4 going 24/7, right? MIKE WEBER: MALE That is correct. All right. We will
PARTICIPANT:
start sending somebody up there. MIKE WEBER: Okay. Great. Thank you.
6 7
Steve. Bye-bye.
8
9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
Bye-bye.
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278
1
2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 bridges.
PARTICIPANT:
but I'll
put the other ones up on the bridge. MIKE WEBER: Okay. That's good. Thank you.
MALE PARTICIPANT: MIKE WEBER: 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Mike. Headquarters and Eric? MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: (Pause.) MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE
PARTICIPANT:
Okay.
This
is
the
Ops Officer.
The persons
requested are
on your bridge. MIKE WEBER: CATHY HANEY: BRIAN: Hi, Hi. Hi, Mike. This is Mike. Brian. Cathy, Br ian, Eric, and Mi ke Weber.
MALE PARTICIPANT:
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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 i0 1 12 13 14 15 1 17 1 1 2 2 2 23 2 2 interest briefly. ERIC: JACK: ERIC: Yes, Eric, Thanks, Eric is this is Jack. on the line. Jack. I'm here.
the Chairman is
longer
concur
protective
action,
and we
recommend
nuclear power plant. That among is our likely to trigger a lot of and
congressional
committees
testimony
cetera. a group
Consequently, such as
Bill asked that we put together senior managers, on what is that the
yourselves,
could be prepared
doing about it
ambassadors Members,
on what we're doing. that you give be that here some the
consideration.
you'll
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280
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 in providing those kind of briefings. We'll make arrangements work with the staff back here to
equip you
with the tools that you need to do the communication, allow you to ask questions, et cetera, and, then, make
sure you're ready to go for those briefings tomorrow. Questions? BRIAN: No. Comments? That's fine. you know,
starting
1C
1i 1 13 1 1 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 doing is
I got a call -with the Chairman. MIKE WEBER: BRIAN: Chairman wanted code we have -MIKE WEBER: BRIAN: -She
Jennifer is
down
to MACCS,
at an exclusion zone beyond 50 miles. got know. MIKE WEBER: So, Sandia all cranking on those,
just
let
this would be a
large-
scale release that would deposit contamination beyond 50 miles? BRIAN: Yes. Well, I mean, what we're
we should
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281 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 1 12 13 14 15 16 this is assumptions chance -chance look for an exclusion zone beyond 50 miles. I we don't have a lot of details I of what had a
should
be making.
haven't
you know,
to talk
to Sandia in
with PMP because they can share with you and research the current assumptions that we're making for the
calculations. BRIAN: Yes, okay. Okay. The other thing, press release Brian -we just I'll do that.
MIKE WEBER:
this
mentioned,
17
1i 19 2C 21 22 23 24 25
Charlie,
same
position
agreeing
Japanese,
and going out with a press release -CHARLIE MILLER: CATHY HANEY: -Yes. that's one of the things
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282 i 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 for. MIKE WEBER: All right. heads-up that Okay? ERIC: No problem. That's what we're here from here. that, question. So, you've got a bunch of material to be spokesmen stakeholders. if that's we get White House. release, And so, it's going out with the press
Okay.
Should we information?
to pick up that
How do you want to handle the logistics? MIKE WEBER: We'll work out the logistics
We don't need to take your time now to do work with your staff to make those
but we'll
MIKE WEBER:
that we may be calling upon you to provide of support over the next several days.
kind
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283 1 2 3 4 on the mean, line, BRIAN: Okay. Hey, while I've got you well, both of you? I
I'm sorry, Charlie and Mike. CHARLIE MILLER: MALE PARTICIPANT: Okay. The others can stay on your interest.
5
6 7 8 9 or not,
Yes,
I.
11 12 13 14 i 16 17 18 19 2 21 22 23 24 2
You know,
to touch base with the RAs about the RSLOs. done that. I talked to all four RAs. Mike, you might be interested in
knowing
r
to themselves. we talked about
U
1 asked them
the
challenges
that
the Regions are facing with regard to communications. We have sent them a copy of the Chairman's Q&As he went down to the Hill with. to work our share points side. possibly that, "Nancy" or "an NCS") that
as manager in
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284 I 2 3 4 5 6 7 a 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 working interested with Scott. support Okay? MALE PARTICIPANT: So, A in. Yes, and I had talked email. going right? to be a huge challenge going forward. All
I sent an email
Chairman's Q&As and to let them know that I've touched based with the Regional Administrators. CHARLIE MILLER: from FSME on that, Great. just work So, if you need Scott.
through
that's one item. second item, we, Mike, NRR, you might be
You know,
scheduling this Commission meeting next week. MIKE WEBER: MALE Right. All right. We
PARTICIPANT:
assembled a scheduling note. shortly via email. And on our I'm sure
You'll be receiving it
that
we're over
going
to
be but
talking points
the weekend,
we've got you at the table. you, table cover. Marty with Virgilio, basic Eliot,
topic
areas
that
going
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MIKE WEBER:
What day are we doing this? Well, I was hoping it My staff for Monday. have to work it says
MALE PARTICIPANT:
was going to be Tuesday or Wednesday. that the Commission is pushing for it Yes, we'll too, Yes,
MIKE WEBER:
with staffing the Ops Center, MALE PARTICIPANT: MIKE WEBER: MALE it. MIKE WEBER: Okay.
PARTICIPANT:
We're working
All right.
All right.
MIKE WEBER:
Bye-bye.
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286
1
2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 1i 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Amy Powell. huge favor,
(CONFERENCE CALL INITIATED) JOSH BATKIN: Hi. This is Josh. Josh. ask a quick, Hello.
MALE PARTICIPANT: JOSH BATKIN: please? MALE PARTICIPANT: JOSH BATKIN: Hi.
Go ahead, Could I
Sure.
Schmidt and Amy Powell with a very brief the PEGs as well reached? It
MALE PARTICIPANT:
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287 (CONFERENCE CALL INITIATED) 2 3 4 MIKE WEBER: JOHN MONAGER: Hi, John. Hi, Mike. How you doing,
sir?
MIKE WEBER: JOHN MONAGER: Okay. Good, How are you? good, good. It's
JOHN MONAGER:
So, It's
it's
interesting,
just
everything
2
21.
22 23 24 25
1 2 3 4
be moved, the
Ambassador
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289 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 hurt if he's guys' having the call that takes place at 0800 Washington time? MALE PARTICIPANT: JOHN MONAGER: it here I'm not sure -0800 because which is your
Probably not
tomorrow morning,
tomorrow night. MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: JOHN MONAGER: Yes. Okay. So, this sounds like
State Department?
the Department of State
or maybe multiple departments, isn't part of. So, good potential you know, it
et cetera,
for a disconnect.
who we reach out to within the Department of Defense, et cetera, and it probably goes And if to a list of
individuals who are working it. this request here, of people, it and will
probably go
groups
you'll
have multiple
chasing the same thing. MALE that PARTICIPANT: support that is lines Yes. up in Well, it can't the for
advance
diplomatic channel
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290 1
2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 i0 11 12 13 14 15
16 17 Joe -he
Okay.
PARTICIPANT:
preparing for receipt of the request. JOHN MONAGER: Right. So that we're able to
MALE PARTICIPANT: respond promptly, should it JOHN MONAGER: thought is, federal too,
I'm not sure how much will the other get back "No, to you and we don't," say, "Yes, we
agencies
or "Yes,
we have
working on right now, John. JOHN MONAGER: have that kind of details? I did see Joe Williams
put together a hand -I guess it was which
So,
schematic,
18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
looked et off
pretty
good, And I
the it's
list --
of well,
cetera.
the BlackBerry --
looks pretty
because that's what we gave him. JOHN MONAGER: guys' Yes. So, where does your
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291 1 2 3 4 Charlie. 6 7 8 9 1 1 1 13 1 15 1 17 18 19 2 21 22 23 24 2 U.S. to the hopefully -Naval Reactors called and they're going to be sending somebody to come over and sit 24/7. So, with the RST through channels, the MALE PARTICIPANT: well, We're working through all it back
military,
different
but that's the primary channel. CHARLIE MILLER: Hey, John, this is
that will give us somebody embedded here. JOHN MONAGER: That would be good. Yes, there was a desire out-of-the-box our Japanese
MALE PARTICIPANT: to participate thinking colleagues. JOHN MONAGER: you know, Yes. to with us in
doing some to
provide
assistance
I mean it
mixed thoughts on the information out there between us and Naval Reactors, be good. MALE PARTICIPANT: same conclusion. So, Yes, we I think they came appreciate their and having everyone together would
support and welcome their cooperation. JOHN MONAGER: Japan Forces here -MALE PARTICIPANT: JOHN MONAGER: -Yes? wanting to know what the Now we also got a call from
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292 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 2 23 2 2 if status of the units and the spent-fuel pools, gave that, and we And there come
and, essentially, how could they help. you know, et there is cetera; this call out maybe it would
equipment, et cetera.
their way,
But these two guys, Cory Wright (phonetic) and Alex Robinson (phonetic), they want to stop by
how the military, the U.S. military on the islands out here could provide more assistance. MALE PARTICIPANT: use your contacts. (phonetic). that, if AID So, can Yes, I would, I mean,
You're there as part of the DART that's be an interagency to bear to initiative make the that
brought
arrangements
would also be beneficial. JOHN MONAGER: MALE Right. You have the diagram
PARTICIPANT:
now that We drew up. JOHN MONAGER: Yes. it So, you guys are fine through other routes
then? MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: Oh, absolutely. The Ambassador, he kind
we had a status as to whether or not we can or what. MALE PARTICIPANT: Now that we don't know
5 6 7
something out, we need to know. MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: other things, too. Okay. I guess there were two internal memo or
status report I guess DOE was sending out. MALE PARTICIPANT: Yes, here at the
Embassy they're going to be sending out an evacuation order for Japan here 50 miles radius of the plant. that to be
out,
non-essential
the discussions you guys had with Chuck earlier? CHARLIE MILLER: JOHN MONAGER: CHARLIE MILLER: Yes. Go ahead. Yes. You're saying that John. This
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294 1 2
3
4 is going
is
Yes.
The Japanese Government
MILLER:
decision?
No,
the U.S.
Embassy.
MILLER:
been
prepare
after the Ambassador puts his out. JOHN MONAGER: CHARLIE Okay. It's Okay. out Yes, to I 50 miles.
MILLER:
yes.
different we never
Chuck
then,
MILLER:
ones,
support
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295
1
2 3 4 exactly been
Okay. But
they'll by us
that then,
order
out, off
reviewed
signed
people here at the Embassy. 6 7 8 9 i0 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2C 21 22 23 24 25 Tony, fill here. MALE PARTICIPANT: Okay. John, we're that, has that you got MALE should be bracing PARTICIPANT: for questions. Okay. Embassy staff
Because when we go
out with our press release, lot of interest and questions. MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: know,
All right.
Yes.
to translate pertain
would
information here. CHARLIE MILLER: MALE PARTICIPANT: told that State And in Yes. has kilometers. Just issued an update, their press
release,
and we're in the process of issuing ours. MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: Okay. Then, the other thing, He wanted to just
a meeting.
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296 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 .14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 kind of the details that. team, basically Affairs, a Nakanishi. I attended mixture NISA. of a Conti METI, And meeting. Ministry of It was TONY NAKANISHI: Hi, Mike. This is Tony
Foreign they
TEPCO,
that
were very forthcoming with the information. MIKE WEBER: Good. We went through a lot of
TONY NAKANISHI: in
And I think a lot of the assumptions that the the NRC staff team, has is consistent with what
we have discussed during that meeting. One of the things, in one of the items that the
came up was
terms of
immediate steps, situation. feedback. debris pool pool. And And And
related to the Unit 4 spent-fuel pool they this were sort of to, looking for some the
pertained
basically,
the access
to the spent-fuel
one
gentleman
from
the
Ministry
of
Foreign Affairs had called me just a couple of hours ago. You know, he kind of apologized. He assumed
that he woke me up. But they indicated that they are going to NEAL R. GROSS
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297 move forward with this plan to go forward and remove 2 3 4 if there the debris and proceed to get the facility to cool the spent-fuel pool. At the meeting earlier, were any risks to that. that with that they had asked me they should be
relative
And I had
indicated
And I didn't know that they were planning in do in a is few hours now. to call the So, what we are NISA I
planning contact,
contact, the
the
consultation with
team here,
think we are basically saying that at this point you ought to move forward with that, understanding that
there is potentially going to be some harm to whoever is going to be conducting that. MALE the PARTICIPANT: high rad Tony, obviously, likely in in to a
fields
they're
hydrogen-rich environment. TONY NAKANISHI: MALE Right. And so, if they're they need
PARTICIPANT:
going to clear that debris with machinery, to be careful. Dave Skeen is walking in. NEAL R.GROSS
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298 Dave, he's been having we're talking to Tony Nakanishi, productive discussions with and his
counterparts in Japan. DAVE SKEEN: MALE to, in Okay. Good. And they're preparing
PARTICIPANT:
several hours I think, enter the Unit 4 area to clearing about debris. what And risks so, they're may having as
begin
discussions
they
encounter
they go about doing that. MALE are going to be PARTICIPANT: clearing Just understand in front of they the
the road
building so they can get the fire truck in. just moving debris outside now. MALE PARTICIPANT: outside of the building? MALE PARTICIPANT: fire truck close enough. if there's that anything, maybe we So, Yes, Oh, okay. So,
They're
they're
while thought
they're
they should
be aware
We
don't if
know you
assume, from
debris
away
around
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299 1 2 3 4 don't 6 7 8 9 10 1 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 2 22 23 24 2 they tried, over Unit 4? TONY NAKANISHI: I guess they Yes, that's correct. And But time. MALE PARTICIPANT: And was it directly we know MALE PARTICIPANT: We're going to tell
of the way to get that fire truck in. MALE what PARTICIPANT: the R field Yes. might Right. be And we but
there,
they're looking at it. MALE PARTICIPANT: readings for you, if We do have some actual
MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: 247 millisieverts per hour. MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE unfortunately. Did they mention it, TONY NAKANISHI: have the time. PARTICIPANT:
No. That
but they decided not to because something might have been higher. MALE PARTICIPANT: NEAL R. GROSS That the levels over
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300 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 1 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MALE PARTICIPANT: (inaudible) shine. 3 is gas (inaudible). MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: the rad load except Unit 3 and Unit 4. The control room, millirem per hour, they're saying about 200 onsite Keep going. That's all we had for between Unit 4 is When gas gets released, probably just shine, and building, MALE PARTICIPANT: TONY NAKANISHI: Fuel pool. -yes, fuel pool and Unit 3 would be higher? MALE PARTICIPANT: rads were too high. MALE PARTICIPANT: TONY NAKANISHI: Wow! M M That's what they said;
more degraded than Unit 4 in terms of spent-fuel? MALE PARTICIPANT: We don't know.
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301 still in the control rooms of all the units. MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT:
They said that's the general
they
keep got in
the
people 50
while people,
they're or area I
not don't
on
they've people,
like
know, about
another
staging
that's
millirems background. That's all they would give out. TONY number, that's room NAKANISHI: They mentioned 30, the
I'm assuming
at some point.
constant number. MALE PARTICIPANT: TONY NAKANISHI: you know, I Anything else? So, no, just in summary,
MALE Okay.
PARTICIPANT:
Wow,
that's
good.
MALE PARTICIPANT:
Now,
you know,
one of
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302 the things, 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 1 12 13 14 15 1 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 heightened we're terms of forthcoming of little Tony was talking about his meeting and how they were, points of et cetera. disconnect There was a couple between our meeting
being briefed and Tony's. were much more optimistic, you know. been But, I mean, you I
universal,
that
getting
that you're making contact and you're opening up those channels of communication. MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: our ability to work Yes. That's so important in with them to provide
about
with your
because they're at their most critical phase right now and we've got to work with them. MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: guys are there. Yes. So, thank goodness you the American flag,
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303
I
2 3
and you're doing a great service to the country. MALE possibility So, PARTICIPANT: Well, there may be a else, also.
we need to move
out of here. MALE PARTICIPANT: 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 1 16 17 18 19 2 21 22 23 24 2 phones. MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: CHARLIE
before you get off --
Yes,
need
to
take that
care you're
of
thankful
working
benefit of the world. MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: Yes. Well, if you can get us we would like It's tough
some good news by six o'clock morning, to have the Ambassador smile a little around here. MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: So, if
bit.
we head out,
we'll have
MILLER:
this is
John
when they have made note about how low the levels were NEAL R.GROSS
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304 1 2
3
in
Right.
-if there's any way to
4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 2.3 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 2 2
they've got no AC; they've got no diesel probably have no control over the
They
ventilation system. TONY NAKANISHI: CHARLIE MILLER: them that low? Right. So, how are they keeping
MILLER:
Okay.
I'll
definitely
keep that on my mind next time. CHARLIE MILLER: okay? TONY NAKANISHI: CHARLIE MILLER: MALE good. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Sounds Just as an aside thing,
PARTICIPANT:
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305 1 2 3 Thank you, Charlie. Thank you, All right. guys. Bye-bye.
IC
ic
11
121
13
14 15
1E
2C 21
22
26
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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
10
(CONFERENCE CALL INITIATED) MALE PARTICIPANT: Operations Officer. I This is a Headquarters wanting to
have Chuck
Casto
come up on the bridge. BRUCE: Put him up, please. Thank you.
MALE PARTICIPANT: CHUCK CASTO: BRUCE: Chuck. CHUCK CASTO: BRUCE: Yes, It it is is, Are
CHUCK CASTO:
Yes.
BRUCE:
Yes,
have
both
portions
just got
grilled on a
lot of things.
come back to us with that regard. But one question that Eliot has been asked we have any people onsite. in Tokyo. And I
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regulators'
EOC today,
to the
5 6 7
one? BRUCE: Where are those, Chuck? We don't know where they're
BRUCE:
CHUCK CASTO:
BRUCE:
CHUCK CASTO:
to the site, but I just don't know how to do it. got to figure that out today. BRUCE: we're Okay. trying
PARTICIPANT:
200
Hey,
Bruce?
Just
for
you
and
to
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morning that this has really overwhelmed TEPCO. is a national emergency for them, and it's
sort
You know,
this is
too big
BRUCE: Do you
No,
know,
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309
1
2
recommendation
that
U.S.
citizens
be
evacuated
from
within 50 miles of the site? CHUCK yesterday. CASTO: Yes, we worked on that
6
7 8 9 10 11 12 :13 14 15 16 17
18
19
20 21 22 23 24 25 receptive It to us, looks like TEPCO is being much more that they
are putting together mitigative strategies. seem to be more receptive to advice and help. BRUCE: might be overwhelmed. Well, I can understand
how they
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you
--
about
happened
yesterday on that,
BRUCE:
A little
bit.
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.311
1
2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15
16 first --
But they were the ones that need to cross the line
they
So,
anyhow,
I guess
don't know if
hold of me or us here. BRUCE: FEMALE liaison numbers, team has Somebody knows. PARTICIPANT: everybody's Yes. numbers, I think cell the
phone
getting a yes.
CHUCK CASTO:
BRUCE: -shift,
Shift?
yes. So, I'm
--
I'm
talking
to
you
off
ends inI M.J.: That's okay. I know, in This is M.J. I We've the
think
them to
and
them Jim
been
able
reach
out
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312 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 IC 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2 21 22 23 24 25 suggested (inaudible) think what we get -whenever we need. CHUCK CASTO: I think we What I'll do is, have three as soon as this
morning. soon as
And as those
briefings,
M.J.
and Bruce,
a download on that. But I think what we're waiting on is, waiting to on the is, what is DoD's I
we're with
capability
regard
request
that we sent in
last night?
us how much of that stuff they can get done. M.J.: talking about? CHUCK CASTO: the pumping systems. M.J.: got that. Okay. Yes, I know, I think Yes, the equipment list and That's that equipment list you're
ongoing. somebody to
sea boom
protect the suction of that -Didn't you suggest that? that we sent in,
I think it
was Richard.
that they are probably going to need the suction as well. I don't
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313 1 2 3 know. happen. VONNA ORDAZ: How are you? CHUCK CASTO: 6 7 8 9 IC 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 is harm's way, VONNA ORDAZ: Good. Question: you mentioned you Chuck, this is Vonna Ordaz. You know, we'll see if they can make that
were heading to the site or trying to get to the site? CHUCK CASTO: VONNA ORDAZ: Yes. Are you familiar with the
doses around the (inaudible)? CHUCK CASTO: Yes. Yes, I think ECO, what where of
that
kind
MALE PARTICIPANT: Chuck. CHUCK CASTO: considered a site; VONNA that is to the -CHUCK CASTO: it at. is. We're still But, you know, No, it's Yes,
that
ORDAZ:
21
22 23 24 2
we don't know how close to figure out where fortunate, NISA, it's they
trying we
were
wherever that
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314 I 2 3 4 Headquarters 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 .16 17 18 19 20 21 2 23 give to get him? BRUCE: Yes, he is. Yes, I'm on the bridge. All right. I'm going to just a This is talking, is. Somebody is And doing that this morning. it looks like, the way TEPCO their EOC. is the is
Ops Officer.
the Chairman coming up on the bridge. BRUCE: BILL Bill. MALE PARTICIPANT: BILL BORCHARDT: Is Hi, Chairman. Okay. BORCHARDT: Good afternoon. Hi.
CHUCK CASTO:
the Chairman
who has
couple of questions. CHUCK CASTO: Okay. Hello. Chuck Casto Hey, Chuck. Hey,
NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: CHUCK CASTO: NRC CHAIRMAN can you just -in any way, Yes,
sir?
JACZKO:
24
25
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315 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 1 13 14 1 16 17 18 19 2C 21 22 23 24 25 progress TEPCO is on to, well, got TEPCO. NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: CHUCK CASTO: us Okay. Government. CHUCK CASTO: Which information? TEPCO -Okay.
--
Mainly,
and
Conti,
the
We're embedded,
with their Government meeting. NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: pool indications, team in Japan? So, the spent-fuel I would say, our
CHUCK
They've been more receptive the cooling system, to DoD, and and
and designing in on
we've
requests
the equipment
they're getting back with how much equipment they can get in here. They've already, I understand that
they've started to move those big four pumps the site. NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: CHUCK CASTO: getting I So, you're -that and
towards
think
involvement
reaching out to us now on the designs of the systems. And John and all the guys are
mitigating
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11
1 2 3
5 6 7
8
9 10
12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: CHUCK CASTO: NRC just to repeat, believe one of CHAIRMAN Yes.
That you can imagine. JACZKO: Yes. 4 is is So, dry, again, and we
potentially
And we
think we absolutely know that pool No. walls have collapsed -NEAL R. GROSS
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234-4433 (202) o
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on pool No.
And again,
question,
where's
IC
15 1 19 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
the pool were damaged or down? CHUCK CASTO: Yes. I'm not going to get
NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: into that level of detail. is it's dry. CHUCK CASTO: inventory at all. NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: you. I appreciate it. CHUCK CASTO: MALE Yes, Yes,
Okay.
Good.
Thank
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318 1 2 3 4 hours ago. 6 7 8 9 10 1 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 consistent. were told, dropped off. MALE PARTICIPANT: But it's okay because But the the CHUCK CASTO: Chairman that Well, then, that's I need to tell not what we briefing before from Tony and John, and they indicated
that there was structural integrity to the core pool. CHUCK CASTO: MALE When was that? That was about four
PARTICIPANT:
because
understood just a few hours ago. MALE PARTICIPANT: Yes, we relayed that
from your team. the Chairman still No. I think on? he's
PARTICIPANT:
he's not going to get into that level of detail. we just need to be careful about consistency I know it's in
the information.
going to
CHUCK
CASTO:
Yes,
well,
we
were
that the walls were not there. MALE PARTICIPANT: Right. Because our
discussion with part of your team was we thought you had abandoned that pool the notion of putting coolant back in
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319 1 2 3 at sand or something else like that? CHUCK CASTO: all yesterday. We were No, we didn't suggest that
working
then,
said
let's
go
both
ways.
So,
integrity
although it 111 12 13
had drained or evaporated. CHUCK CASTO: FEMALE Dry? Bill, what did you
PARTICIPANT:
in
the room,
too,
RUAN
(phonetic):
Okay.
just
And let me try to give you the some of this information comes
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320
1 2
And he basically,
CASTO;
Yes,
they
can't You
keep
--
told last
night.
cannot
get
inventory above the bottom of the fuel. BILL RUAN: No. What Jim told me
11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 is gone, And basically, and at least in his opinion, everything else and, of course, pool left. CHUCK CASTO: BILL RUAN: Right. Unit 3, he believes CHUCK CASTO: So, it's drained.
MALE PARTICIPANT: CHUCK CASTO: BILL RUAN: CHUCK CASTO: you can't get water in BILL RUAN: it. Yes,
Right.
That's what
because
there's no fuel
there's no water in
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321 the pool. 2 3 FEMALE PARTICIPANT: BILL RUAN: Unit 2, you that hole. CHUCK CASTO: BILL RUAN: 10 11
12
Unit 3?
he believes
look at
the top of
the building
they created,
there's
It's
in
then,
that
our
discussion
--
and,
Chuck,
hope
13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 2 2
by the way
--
what Jim told me was Daiene has declared an emergency on Unit, they've declared an evacuation. So, maybe you triage this thing and try to
Well,
--
I don't know if
Bill
trying to get, so
on Unit
trying
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322 1 2 3 4 2, the CHUCK CASTO: make that hole bigger, outside. I don't You know, yes, Unit 2. Unit
so they can push water from know how you make the hole
bigger, but they need to take the top of that building down. MALE PARTICIPANT: Well, we have some
9
1 1 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
of Daiene to
--
MALE PARTICIPANT: like right up there. FEMALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: Daiene. MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT:
It's
north.
Yes,
it's
Oh,
it's
This is
pointed out, when you do your calculations nuclear engineering degree, know, what's the dose
to get your
rate
assembly?
You know,
And we've got how many fuel assemblies? BRUCE: Hey, Chuck? Yes? of the questions that we've and
323
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 2 up there, manipulate. anything. certainly, So, information Bruce, Bill may have something more up-to-date it than me. But
looked like there were a lot of attempts to try to And so, we've heard in
that they've got the power line back to that they're still CASTO: I've Yes, heard. working on it. we don't The have any
CHUCK on
that
only
thing,
I mean it's
always helpful to get power back. it's really just not going to
CASTO: In
In
some
cases,
there's
other cases,
there to do anything anyhow. BRUCE: CHUCK You Okay. CASTO: can't You know, you breakers can't or
power is
helpful,
you know --
power will help up at the other one. MALE PARTICIPANT: CHUCK CASTO: certainly, Because but Daiene. The power will help going to help at
Daiichi. power if
there's
nothing you
could do with
How
can
we help
you
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324 from this end? CHUCK CASTO: Well, you know, whatever we you know, I
In other words,
don't know if
you guys can get a bridge with Admiral the DoD people, INPO, GE, you know,
KSX
embedded
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325 licensee doing. 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 formal, with So, their recovery or whatever they were extra
hands would be helpful. FEMALE but is PARTICIPANT: it possible, Again, just not to be of case
because note in
(inaudible), they
type of brief
question
official
(inaudible,
possibly
"position")?
6\111
FEMALE here.
PARTICIPANT:
Okay.
One
second
MALE PARTICIPANT:
Anything else
for us,
No.
MALE PARTICIPANT:
Okay.
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326
CHUCK CASTO:
All right.
Thanks.
GROSS NEAL R.
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327
1
2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 is, the assembled, Headquarters
(CONFERENCE CALL INITIATED) MALE PARTICIPANT: Officer. This Chuck is Casto the is
Operations
coming up on the bridge. FEMALE PARTICIPANT: CHUCK CASTO: FEMALE the (inaudible, This is Chuck, Chuck. Hey, Chuck, you got are you there?
PARTICIPANT:
possibly "A Team"). Hey, I've got our team here I'll let Tim to the
CHUCK CASTO:
and John brief you on the latest with respect spent-fuel pools and whatever else.
I think one thing we just want to clarify on Unit 4 spent-fuel structural integrity pool, is it's likely dry, I guess but is it the
uncertain,
probably the best way to put it. will hold water or won't hold
either. And Bill Borchardt, if you can get that too. Okay. make sure that's he got information to
(202) 234-4433
328 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 1 13 1 1 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 So, of can at that, if tells tells us, you repeat this right. CHUCK CASTO: from METI and I think our best our best knowledge knowledge the Unit 4 MALE PARTICIPANT: that? I just want I'm sorry, Chuck, could
TEPCO,
us that
integrity of
spent-fuel pool is
PARTICIPANT:
the fuel cool. CHUCK CASTO: least do You can at least spray, you
That's
where
they're headed on that. MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: (Inaudible). I think, you know, I
don't know that we were clear with that with Bill this morning. So, I just want to make sure that he's Hey, Bill, I'm here, too.
additional
I gave you
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329 1 2 3 4 units 6 7 than much. PARTICIPANT: We don't know how much. have, Unit 4 Chuck? CHUCK CASTO: I guess Unit 3, you know, the other MALE PARTICIPANT: FEMALE PARTICIPANT: Okay. What about Unit 3,
spent-fuel
8MALE
9
they gave us yesterday that looks like steam is by Unit 2 and Unit 3. CHUCK that hole. opened and it's it's one CASTO: Yes, Unit 2, they opened They coming out of above the fuel pool
1 1 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 2
the picture.
building, that
appears
at
Richard,
what would
at least one level below where the spentis, which tells us that the whole building full of steam, and it's venting out
probably
through that hole. Unit atmosphere and 3, it's it looks like in it's open photo to the
steaming
this
heavily,
COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE.. N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com
330 it 2 3 confident 5 6 7 8 9 1C 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 2 (phonetic). walls, sound, -it up looks like there has been some kind of an explosion there, obviously, And help may me and it there, out, looks like they guys have, it seem -there's to be steam fairly the
that be
there
that
actually
structurally-
Right.
being demolished,
up against
they believe the more interior spent-fuel are in place and, if not,
pool walls
shine from around a walk around the plant. don't have that. CHUCK clarify that in CASTO: So, we probably
need
to
What do we want to say about them? NAKANISHI: gave a little We visited briefing Basically, NISA. it Tariakmishu last night
after my visit to the Conti. of people there. some of in there, many folks,
was a lot
we were in a little
trying to
more detail,
general,
information.
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331 1
CHUCK CASTO: the access road is TONY they had also sort of
blocked, NAKANISHI:
that right, Tony? Right. regarding they And one thing they to do
Unit 4,
communicated
intended
regarding the debrises that have sort of accessway fuel pool. So, at 6:00 a.m. this for fire trucks to go and cool
morning,
which
is
NAKANISHI:
an
hour
ago
here,
they probably
have started the activity to remove some of the debris around the access. my understanding is And, then, if it goes as planned, to try to
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332 inject water into the spent-fuel pool. 2 3 4 One thing they were looking for regarding that was sort of the NRC's there were any risk feedback on, that you know, should if be
issues
they
considering relative to that. with the ET and, 7 8 9 10 11 1 13 14 1 1 17 1 19 2 21 22 23 2 2 this is there, share communicating also,
the team here, we're basically this point the bottom line is
that at
get that pool cooled with water. And so, granted, there's risks associated
with dose and maybe potential criticality, or possibly even some hydrogen, basically, planned. depending on where they're headed,
the bottom line was they should proceed as So, I that was that point regarding Unit 4. believe today we're going to go back to So, So,
and there were some items that they wanted with us that we deferred it to today.
that's more details regarding the dose situation. we'll be heading over there at 10 o'clock, CHUCK CASTO: Anything -This is wait a Chuck. minute. Hold
I believe.
on.
add --
water into the spent-fuel pool I definitely believe is the right thing to do. One thing that we need to be
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333 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 1 12 13 1 15 16 17 18 19 2 2 22 23 24 25 could prepared amount there, of for and understand is, depending upon the
fuel exposure
that is
already occurring in
that fuel,
result of the overquenching. MALE already damaged. RICHARD anticipate DeVERCELLY: Correct. So, we of PARTICIPANT: Which may have been
potential It's
releases,
elevations
radiation, it
contamination.
needs to be cooled. MALE PARTICIPANT: Right. I mean, right? talking like There as a right,
I'm
throwing hot water on an iced-over windshield. would be fragmentation of the fuel cladding
result of overcooling. MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: probably melted. reaction actual to I mean, if all Right. A lot of the fuel is
be generating
decayed heat.
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334
1 MALE PARTICIPANT: -open, or whatever --
2 3 4 5 possibly,
MALE
PARTICIPANT:
Just
PARTICIPANT:
"There would be definitely a big shock.") MALE PARTICIPANT: more And they've even evaluated with on it know, that than some and
that It's
water's more
effective
effective of
some
sort They've
solid
shielding?
guessed
that
analysis
arrived at that conclusion? MALE doing analysis. they can. I don't PARTICIPANT: I don't think they're
My thought with the sand versus the water, know where you are in four days, a week,
baking, baking,
thousand degrees with the sand? MALE PARTICIPANT: With the sand, you may
help with shine, but you're not helping with cooling. MALE (inaudible) PARTICIPANT: You know, Yes. I mean, well,
months.
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335
1 2
3
insulated way down there -MALE PARTICIPANT: it says you cool, And I think that NUREG, molten
core, no matter what. MALE PARTICIPANT: E Even it's MALE PARTICIPANT: formed a crust -MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: Right. it gets some Right. It gets some cooling.
12
13
what you said was the status of the Unit 1 spent-fuel 14 15 11 15 13 1lE idea. we pool. CHUCK CASTO: I don't think we have any
We haven't seen any steam and we don't really, know the status of Unit 1 spent-fuel pool.
don't
like most of the American ones, you know. Right. it would take So, a long
that's
not urgent, 1.
but,
24 know.
The spent-fuel
they don't
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336 have an automatic makeup. 2 3 level, 5 6 7 8 9 I1 11 12 13 14 15 16 1 1 19 20 21 22 23 21 2 E M I this chatted gave lait anyhow
--
No,
get
PARTICIPANT:
They
don't
have
the
power anyway. MALE PARTICIPANT: makeup. CHUCK CASTO: Yes. So, for a GE plant The design has no auto
MALE
PARTICIPANT:
Right.
You
can
send
but there's nothing to do. Just Webber the one thought: and ET, list we
the
Team
equipment that
the U.S.
would consider
sending.
et cetera. out a
sending
conceptual design.
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337 morning to ensure that this stuff can come in. were looking for an update on that. 3 4 5 6 TEPCO again equipment here. You guys got anything up that alley? MALE PARTICIPANT: 9 10 11 12 13 14 1 16 17 1 19 2 21 22 23 24 25 again. MALE PARTICIPANT: should have all the list. MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: there, what's actually there. MALE PARTICIPANT: Well, we could shoot You sho uld have it. No, no I mean what's Well, y ou have it. You it. is No, all we have so far is, We also have a 10 o'clock meeting over at to talk about this design and where the So, we
four submersible pumps at Yokota Air Force Base and diesel-driven pump, and it's
That's all we've got so far. MALE PARTICIPANT: And that's all
(inaudible) information that said that it's out of Yokota. FEMALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: I'm just told it exists. So, Well,
on its way
(inaudible).
MALE PARTICIPANT:
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338
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 came in Morris. Earlier today, there was a request that you this. There was an email. too. Okay. Chuck, this is Scott Read it all, and we'll
Hey,
CHUCK CASTO: SCOTT spraying of water. CHUCK CASTO: SCOTT MORRIS: that? CHUCK CASTO: Webber to answer it, SCOTT look into it. MALE that. MORRIS:
11
12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 2 now, but I is
(inaudible)
or Mike
I guess, MORRIS:
(Inaudible)
still
PARTICIPANT:
Okay.
We
are
doing
I didn't know whether you had heard any more. I mean, the as yes, it is is, other apparently that steaming heard pools
guess that,
concern these
I have
expressed
spent-fuel
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339
steam going 3 4 down to go and lose up at inventory, rad levels are only to
the site,
and the
opportunity
bring in
going to
be limited just because of the dose rates onsite. So, raising it is it it would would behoove behoove
--
the folks
reason to
I'm
perhaps
7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
spent-fuel
Unit I and 2 don't go below a certain point the rad levels at least stable. Because if
then rad levels are, you know -PARTICIPANT: what. They They're have just no way
telling
dumping
available. That's why we're trying you can't get in they're still
You know,
And,
you know,
just trying to clear a road to the site. MALE want the hole is PARTICIPANT: right now I Yes. The reason just they one
guess 'it's
blowout panel. MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE system, they want hole, PARTICIPANT: Right. If there's a spray
like that,
www.nealrgross.com
340 1 2 the winds So, out here are, you know, significant, too.
they need a large hole. Also, regardless of whether the they get the
spray 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 1 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2 21 22 23 24 2 do it got to
or not,
reactor
building,
the reactor
They've got to vent that reactor building They wan to get that thing open, open,
open. We talked about, shooting there. MALE understand when the that. first of PARTICIPANT: Right. No, simply I a rocket-propelled threw grenade out an option or something to up
that,
measures
becomes
available,
maybe it
would be wise to
the two units where we think there still in still the pool, as evidence by the fact
that
steaming. CHUCK CASTO: all. get We're trying it stuff designed Yes. all. Well, we're going to we've yes,
BILL RUAN
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341 1
2 3 4
Ruan (phonetic).
I haven't heard for some time a report of
the water status going into the cores And I was just wondering if
of these units.
5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 1 1 17 18 19 20 2 22 23 24 2
that status. MALE yesterday, that PARTICIPANT: ago, What what they told us
through (phonetic)
headers that,
whatever.
had to
fire
driven pumps hooked up to all four units, good core spray coolant for the past
48 hours.
they were very comfortable with that. Now Tony got a little bit different
information at a separate meeting. TONY Conti meeting. provided NAKANISHI: Right, and this is the
some data
caveat
that level
was basically indicating about half of the active fuel length was uncovered. MALE PARTICIPANT: TONY NAKANISHI: unit 2 is Which unit, Tony? This is 1 and 3. And 2, the
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342 1 2 other other you 4 ones because their (inaudible) was -so, the
thing they had mentioned was they are able to, know, even the though seawater was the core is has level maybe been is, half
uncovered, So,
stable. more or
my understanding stable.
less, 7
9 1 11 12 13 1 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 2 24 2
5,
shouldn't were in
have
any fuel
in
the reactor
shutdown. MALE PARTICIPANT: TONY NAKANISHI: Okay. Now although Unit 4, one other
So,
freshest-discharged
address
want
RST02,
is
that
a good
(202) 234-4433
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343 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 email
HOC@NRC.GOV.
MALE MALE
one?
MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE
PARTICIPANT:
01HOC.
RSTO01. --
No,
no,
no dot.
RST01HOC@NRC.GOV.
Got it.
RST01. --
PARTICIPANT:
No,
RST01,
01,
Oh,
okay.
address.
there's
forward it
Okay.
you know
how to get a hold of us. BRUCE: Chuck? Yes, Chuck, this is Bruce.
a phone call between you guys and the DOE folks. NEAL R.GROSS
COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS (202) 234-4433 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com
344 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 a 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 support it. want me to. CHUCK CASTO: it? Well, we were trying to Well, yes. Yes, we'll bridge. It's -is. MALE PARTICIPANT: couldn't we tie into one of Well, I guess we could at? you guys can Taggart MARTIN TAGGART (phonetic): This is Martin
(phonetic) from the liaison team. we were trying to set up a conference call
coordinate
going to be occurring in about an hour and a half. I sent you an email to see whether or not (inaudible) that call or not. MALE PARTICIPANT: they were ready to go. MALE PARTICIPANT: Bill Cook can do that, Hold on. Where's Bill The DOE guy said that
MALE PARTICIPANT:
going to support
What time is
MARTIN TAGGART:
NEAL R.GROSS
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345 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 time, 9 I1 11 12 13 14 1 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 2 up there, (Inaudible) up, make it convenient for you guys. The email I sent was and, support the if it. so, what They that's
whether or not you could support it would be wanted the time that you could it before
the
time
to do
flyover
scheduled for -CHUCK CASTO: MARTIN 9:00 a.m. our time. -eight o'clock our
TAGGART:
I guess would be nine o'clock your time. CHUCK CASTO: Right. Yes, well, just hook have
Get them,
them call Jim Trapp's cell phone. MARTIN TAGGART: CHUCK CASTO: Jim Trapp's cell phone?
PARTICIPANT:
I'll
go
get
him.
Alan,
or whoever it So,
is
they
can hook up Jim and the DOE guy here, can hook up and talk about the flyover. NEAL R. GROSS
COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701
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346 1 2 3 4 a lot. 6 7 8 CHUCK CASTO: BRUCE: Yes. MARTIN TAGGART: be Jim Trapp? CHUCK CASTO: Yes. Okay. All right. Thanks Okay. So, it's going to
MARTIN TAGGART:
A couple more. Any other questions, a couple more. an emergency, we The hear. Bruce? Daiene Any
10
also
declared
11
12 13 1 1 16 1 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
CHUCK CASTO:
Yes,
Jim's working,
Jim's I going
think going to work on that, on there, what we need to do. MALE PARTICIPANT: any other insights right now? CHUCK CASTO: Daiene? No. MALE PARTICIPANT: Daiene site. MALE dose rates. MALE PARTICIPANT: PARTICIPANT:
Okay,
Do we
know anything
about
Yes,
they
have
some
the dose rates at the site or near the site? CHUCK CASTO: From the newspaper, we got
NEAL R. GROSS
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347 60 MR at the gate. 2 3 information. MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: the flyover 7 they were? CHUCK CASTO: 9 1 1
12
MALE PARTICIPANT:
At Daiichi,
we got some
Yes,
there's one --
that we had,
but we don't
Right.
Yes,
yes.
because we don't have any that are accurate. but we don't know
13
14
MALE PARTICIPANT:
CHUCK CASTO: --
Twenty-five rem.
or 25 rem. We don't know
1 1 1 18 19 20
21
if
Okay. to
going
--
highly-elevated
readings,
22 23 24 25 It's high.
CHUCK CASTO:
That's
a good thing,
Bill.
BILL:
at that.
CHUCK CASTO:
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348 1 2 3 4 want 6 7 drop 9 thing they over, so, tried to use the helicopter and and they had to abort that. fly some water --
They couldn't
our helicopter theory isn't MALE PARTICIPANT: to put some lead shields
before they fly that. CHUCK CASTO: Yes. now So, isn't the helicopter an option.
probably
right
10
11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2 21 22 23 24 2
PARTICIPANT:
(Inaudible)
helicopter
(inaudible) dropping water. CHUCK CASTO: rates were too high. Anything guys have? BRUCE: doing, Out of all the Chuck? things you're Yes, it tried, and the dose
You want to
get folks near the site. CHUCK CASTO: site. That's a priority. FEMALE Yes, And-Do you know the move people near the
PARTICIPANT:
actual locations of the EOCs for the site, CHUCK CASTO: heard that. We still I don't think
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349 1 FEMALE PARTICIPANT: CHUCK CASTO: 3 working towards that. with METI and TEPCO is surely. 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 1 1 1 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Because, I mean, you could imagine one of our everybody, we're And so, moving But Okay. we're working. We're
closer So,
information.
The
you know,
in what we do,
but --
And to get
NEAL R.GROSS
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350 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 operators, our system, six units, is I if think even one of our operators even in
you've got four units like this, maybe for one operator this
TEPCO's
12 13 1 1 1 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 with them, between that thought, MALE Chuck. PARTICIPANT: Are the You just triggered utilities a
other
Japanese
pitching in?
Or can you see any help from them? MALE PARTICIPANT: We were in a meeting
and they said they had resources available, to 300 TEPCO total for the Daiichi They have site, and
200
included
employees.
borrowed
some from other licensees and have some fleets there, and they have some of the civil defense forces that. CHUCK CASTO: Yes, that's why I think
NEALR.GROSS
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351 1 2 3 they're undermanned. help them put in the going, You know, system right they were asking us to but in we're there not and
But one of the goals is, 6 7 8 9 1 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 try to get it know that equipment, somewhere, fit we it probably needs
if to
you know,
and all that stuff mocked-up. could do that at an American up and say,
installation, okay,
mock it
this system
then,
carry it
that would be success. MALE PARTICIPANT: JOHN MONAGER: Okay. Will you guys have
something this morning within the next hour or less on the equipment that's available? MALE PARTICIPANT: I've seen sketches. I don't know, John. I
process or thought pieces. CHUCK CASTO: with is, Well, you guys work on that, Admiral Mueller, DoD,
whomever,
whomever
to try to figure out what the status INPO has offered resources as well. NEAL R.GROSS
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352
I
2 3
Yes.
know that
5
6 7 8 9 1 11 12 13 1 1 1 17 18 19 2 2 22 23 2 2 was to get assemble you know, given is multi-dimensional accepting Government you know. it. So, you know, it's, obviously, a
the whole, it
all
that dynamic,
meanwhile,
we don't have any equipment. MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: to kind of Yes. The advice we have been be positioned, in
lean forward,
those systems and get them over here, that would be helpful. MALE PARTICIPANT: And just to
confirm,
you want these systems physically where? CHUCK CASTO: them to the What we told them last night nearest American facility
possible,
whatever bases,
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353 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 2 gotten another they'll CHUCK CASTO: That would be the best case,
to have all that stuff here already. MALE PARTICIPANT: CHUCK CASTO: meeting come You Okay. know, 10:00, we're and, going in
hopefully, have a
around.
hopefully,
we'll
contact at the Department of Defense that we can pull them in on that meeting has got through to walk a teleconference from the
because
someone
through
strainer all the way up to the spray nozzle, you know, sizes, boom, dimensions, boom. Yes, you know, we've got a paper cartoon but someone has got to make interconnections, elbows, boom,
from people
equipment, (phonetic)
down
the spent-
MALE PARTICIPANT:
We
asked for four of those last night. MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: NEAL R.GROSS
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354 nozzles. MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE than that, though. MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: this has equipment, got though, it's all Yes. But, all fits I mean, but with all someone So, the PARTICIPANT: Yes. This sounds different
great,
to make sure it
of this
to get
Okay,
but,
mean,
should we send this piece of equipment? MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: CONEYS? Yes, CONEYS, yes. I mean I we're
I don't know.
you know,
asking for about two to three miles of piping. MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: eight diesel-driven pumps. got to -MALE PARTICIPANT: Yes, I wouldn't worry Okay. You know, I we asked for think they've
You know,
too much about the nozzle. MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: Okay. Yes. Okay. I got it.
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355 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 2
hear
--
pieces to see if
MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: if we can't get miles of pipe. MALE PARTICIPANT: And readily these truck. all this
Okay. is
stuff For
example, be on a
pumps, or a
diesel,
to
can't be playing around with this. MALE with all this. Admiral Mueller. Okay. TRISH Holohan. Apparently, (inaudible). And you said you HOLOHAN: Yes, this is Trish PARTICIPANT: You know, and, And DoD then, can help us
they'll talk to
were going to talk to them about doses this morning. Is that dose information you're trying to get from
them? CHUCK CASTO: TRISH HOLOHAN: They're doing flyovers, Okay. DOE.
You're waiting to
CHUCK
CASTO:
DOE
FERMAC
is
doing
NEAL R. GROSS
COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
356 1 2 3 4 flyovers. TRISH HOLOHAN: CHUCK CASTO: from Tokyo up to the site. HOLOHAN: CHUCK CASTO: other site, too, Okay. We need to talk about the Okay. They're going to fly over
5TRISH 6 7
8
9 1 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2C
21
but
we need to find out the status of it. MALE PARTICIPANT: TRISH HOLOHAN: fly over the site? CHUCK CASTO: working on now. The FERMAC is Yes, that's what Jim Trapp's Okay. Will do.
going to fly from Tokyo up to the site. TRISH HOLOHAN: Okay. And, then, they're going to
22 23 24 25
it
through
or something.
don't
and assess to us
promised
to get it
as soon as
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357 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 1 1 17 18 19 20 21 22 23
24 though?
They're flying
That's great.
Okay.
MALE PARTICIPANT: available for dose rates? remote sites. TRISH HOLOHAN: monitoring and
there's
Well,
we
have
the
Now are you familiar with similar to the HPS? It's I the executive -think I understand
(Inaudible).
that what you're talking about? MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: Yes. Yes, I haven't seen any
That
was
from
the
IAEA,
25
MALE
PARTICIPANT: NEALR.GROSS
Well,
the
original
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358 1 2 3 report that I saw was from the IAEA. Which one are
you talking about? TRISH JAIF, HOLOHAN: I was talking about the
4
5 6 7 8
the Japanese Atomic -MALE PARTICIPANT: TRISH HOLOHAN: -Industrial Forum? yes, Yes. that Industrial Forum.
9
10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
we don't know whether or not that's valid data. MALE PARTICIPANT: Well, we're here on the let you know. Okay?
ground.
If
we
hear
something,
we'll
Thanks.
I've been
every hour,
Thanks.
We'll be here. (Laughter.) CHUCK CASTO: Yes, I know. You guys have
G02HOO@NRC.GOV,
is
that
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359
I 2
3 4 5
MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: CHUCK CASTO: an hour or so. MALE PARTICIPANT: CHUCK CASTO: Okay.
E
7 8 9
Okay.
All right.
10
12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2C 21 22 23 24 25 NEAL R. GROSS
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360
I
2 3 Headquarters
CHUCK CASTO: 7 8 9 1 1 12 13 14 1 16 17 18 19 20 2 22 23 2 25
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361
1
BILL: line.
(phonetic)
on the
2
3
We're connecting
and we're
going to hook these two groups together CHUCK CASTO: BILL: Yes? Hey, Bill?
6 4 7 5
1 11 12 10 13 1 1
16
17
18
19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Mueller is BILL: CHUCK pissed. No, I understand. I said we Thank you. talked to DoD.
CASTO:
them up there.
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COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
362
NEAL R.GROSS
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363 1 2 Ops Officer. on the bridge. MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE please. PARTICIPANT: Hello? Good evening. Hold for Buchanan, (CONFERENCE CALL INITIATED) MALE PARTICIPANT: This is Headquarters
MALE PARTICIPANT: BRUCE: (phonetic) on the ET. MALE PARTICIPANT: Yes, sir,
Okay. Hello?
Thanks.
13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 20 track. know?
BRUCE:
my first
shift.
MALE
PARTICIPANT:
I've
been
keeping
(Laughter.) BRUCE: What can we do for you? Can you just give me
NEALR. GROSS
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what I think the current status is. Units 1, 2, to do seawater injection. BRUCE: Affirmative. I'm sorry? and 3 reactors are continuing
possible
BRUCE:
BRUCE:
Yes,
4 has no water and possible zirc fire? BRUCE: We know that, we feel that it in has
zirc interaction or not? BRUCE: We don't know that. Okay. Okay. So, we
365 1 2 integrity, but that's not confirmed? BRUCE: NRC four points Yes. Okay. earlier. There I were don't
3
4
that
5
6 7
know if
you're familiar with those. BILL: Well, I'm here, Chairman. This is
Bill.
I can tell
8
9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 yes, it's still right? bottom line,
those four points at this point? MALE PARTICIPANT: valid, but we had Well, I think No. removed No. 4 is 4,
previously
Well, still
yes.
I mean, it's
believe
valid? MALE PARTICIPANT: a reasonable basis for No. 4. Okay. Okay. Okay. Good. We still think there's
NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: Thank you. That's what I needed. BILL: on the phone? NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: BILL: aligned,
20
21 22 23 24 2
Yes,
please.
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366 just had another conversation with Chuck Casto. 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 i0 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 2 from Naval fixes. that. because The I think the Ops Center No. 1 priority now
ought to be facilitating the movement of materials. SCOTT MORRIS: BILL: I have an update.
MALE PARTICIPANT:
NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: BILL: No. 1 got I mean (Inaudible) thing the is
being
able
deliver to the
we've
Ambassador a lot
talking of
there's
interactions
and we can't fall flat and say -NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: BILL: And we Okay. need theoretical
don't
We need -NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: SCOTT MORRIS: And Yes. I can offer you an
if
this is
I was on the phone with an individual out for That of Yakuza, Japan, who had
Reactors request
received pumps
the
the
various
and
hoses.
individual
request,
and equipment was delivered to Yokota, another military facility. NEAL R.GROSS
COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
I guess is
As of about six
367 hours 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 1 15 16 17 18 19 2 21 22 23 24 2 you, very, interrupt sketchy. NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: you, Okay. I'm sorry to too ago, according to this individual, on a the TEPCO truck
actually
equipment
flatbed
and drove it
when
the material
actually
the site or
Apparently,
there were no
Government officials escorting or with that particular TEPCO pickup. NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: SCOTT MORRIS: So, Okay. our Okay. information is
detailed for what I need to know at this pint. SCOTT Chairman, it's MORRIS: the Well, I'm offering is it to
because
Ambassador
obviously
urgent when it
Okay.
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368 1 2 3 going to add is or picked up, such that the equipment that was delivered, I should say, and did not include not like even
seawater nozzles.
strainers
potentially
who
has
engineered
solution on how to rig all this stuff up and is up with ways to get all the pieces
coming
they all arrive at the same place and can be mocked up and put in use. NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: SCOTT MORRIS: But Okay. that last bit, we're
working on facilitating. NRC CHAIRMAN was into JACZKO: we put Okay. basically and So, all Bill, our the
efforts
mobilizing
getting
I mean I
but we make it
have
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needs
facilitation
happens. NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: I'm going to jump out. do a quick meeting here and, touch a little then, I concur. I've got to go to I'll probably be in
bit later this evening. But, again, bottom line: our four points support
we still them?
that we still
JACZKO:
Yes,
JACZKO:
Bye.
370 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 Headquarters (CONFERENCE CALL INITIATED) MALE PARTICIPANT: Officer. This is the
Operations
assistance briefing bridge is to go when you are. MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: BRUCE This is BOGER: All
populated.
Bruce Boger.
please.
playback,
make
Headquarters
Ops
Yes, Mike
MIKE
FRANOVICH:
Mike
Franovich,
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371 1 2 (phonetic), (inaudible). JOHN LUBINSKI: MICHAEL John Lubinski, Michael NRR. Marshall,
3
4 5 6 7 8 9 10 1 12 13 14 15
MARSHALL:
Chairman Jaczko's office. DON: Don (inaudible), Bill Chairman's office. Commissioner
Watters,
Rebecca
Nease,
Region
Ben Reamer
(phonetic),
Region 1 Duty
12
1 18 19 2C 21 22 23 21 2
Officer.
(Inaudible). ANNETTE VIETTI-COOK: Office of the Secretary. LINDA HOWELL: ROBERT LEWIS: Linda Howell, Robert Lewis, Region 4. FSME. Office Annette Vietti-Cook,
Trip Rothschild,
(phonetic):
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372 1 2 3 complete. BRUCE BOGER: all. 7 8 14 9 12 16 1 12 13 14 1 This is Bruce Boger. All right. Good evening, TED CASSELMAN (phonetic): Ted Casselman,
position this evening. I'm going status of activities in With things are about afternoon. injected described unknown. For Unit 2, place. reduce seawater injection is taking and as The to give a brief Japan. to Unit 1, I will say that this being update on the
respect
earlier
seawater
reported
stable
functional.
Spent-fuel
16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
is containment
Secondary containment and they cut a hole to the likelihood of hydrogen gas buildup.
described as
Spent-fuel pool
possibly drained.
For Unit 4,
likely dry with the structural integrity in Unit 5, spent-fuel pool is NEAL R. GROSS
COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
reported to be
373 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 i 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 like little hazards to get been in Their direction direction reported to heating up. They have AC power available from a
diesel generator. The same for Unit 6. be heating up, but The spent fuel pool they have AC power
available through a diesel generator. And the general is currently talking points: the west the wind with that at
from
expected
to continue until
We've
contact with Chuck Casto and the team there. priorities flowing. are to They've continue had some to get the
information with
the Japanese
authorities
and feel
getting better information at this time. They would to acknowledge the site, that they would just a
closer
so perhaps
radiation levels to get to the site EOC. They would acknowledge, also, that the
licensee or TEPCO is
somewhat overwhelmed.
People had
left the site earlier, but they have been supplemented with additional people now. Our understanding is they
had about 50 before and maybe up to about 100 now. NEAL R.GROSS
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374 1 2 3 4 comment. MIKE FRANOVICH: BRUCE BOGER: 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 1 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 on that. Our priority now, frankly, has shifted Unit 2. Hey, Bruce? Can I answer any questions for you? Bill Ruan (phonetic) has an additional
MIKE FRANOVICH:
I've got a couple of questions for you, On unit status, the containment intact. reports now, TEPCO
Unit 2 says
but I thought I had heard last night that that they had a breach in the toris
verified itself
was being reported out of NISA. And so, I'm wondering about the status on integrity
with the folks on the ground? BRUCE BOGER: Don't believe so. We'll get back to you
MALE PARTICIPANT:
from doing status to getting equipment to Fukushima. MIKE FRANOVICH: fully appreciate that. I recognize that, and I
I was in
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375 1 2 3 4 But I do want to go down this list sure we're getting what seems to be a dated information. I want to make little it's to make bit of still
sure
correct or still
current. At
On Unit 3, we talked about some doses. the site post, 7 8 9 1 11 12 13 14 15 1 1 18 19 20 2 22 23 2 25 believe the 60 MR per hour, is that still The
current? current
FEMALE
PARTICIPANT:
information that we have been able to get and verify, yes. MIKE FRANOVICH: Okay. Again, at the NISA
press conference last night or yesterday morning their time, they were talking about a spike which is but that going
down ever since that spike, based on Unit 3 events the previous day. And I understand the status on Unit 4. For Unit 5, reactor is there's a note in here that we defueled. And there was an
earlier report that led me to believe that the reactor was not totally defueled, from NISA that meter. So, defueled on 5? FEMALE PARTICIPANT: NEAL R.GROSS
COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701
is
this correct,
that
the reactor
is
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376
I
2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
is verifying that. MIKE FRANOVICH: And, thing, and, Bill, I'll Okay.
why don't you go through your come back and ask my other
then,
we had kind of a cartoon about what that system looks like. The steps, of course, is we have to
finalize the list, get the suppliers to take all the equipment, collect it in a central location, make sure do a pre-assembly of
we've got the engineering done, the equipment, and operate it. to accomplish. Right now, we know then move it So,
that
the
equipment left an
namely,
five pumps,
and
escapes me
It's
So,
Forces of Japan are delivering that equipment. not the complete list. valves, the strainers, It's just the pumps.
NEAL R.GROSS
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377
1 2 3 4 Reactors, In fact, can this list. We who is have been us in contact with this this, so Naval effort. see if we can
helping
coordinate
they 6 7
actually locate the equipment. Meanwhile, Company has is taken doing our we have the Bechtel Engineering drawing, taken the work equipment and the So,
9 10 11 12 13 14 15 1 17 18 19 2 21 22 23 24 25
list
and
the
engineering
procurement work to get this stuff to the site. we're working with them to get that now, working on this project, So, right now. chaotic, done. The key policy issue is that remains I So, and
they're
that's kind of where everything stands what maybe an hour ago was a little
is,
asked for installers and operators for this equipment. Now that in, would be installers and operators of
equipment
you know,
a radiation area and possibly So, we don't have anybody install and operate
even a high radiation area. identified this system. So, right now
that would
face
as we
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our military to do it? the Japanese and tell and you operate it."? worked out.
Can we go back to TEPCO and to them, These "We'll install things still the system need to be something
3
4
5
6 7
8 9
10 11 12 13 14 1 1 17 18 .19 2 21 22 23 24 2 folks,
problem resolved would be great. MALE PARTICIPANT: BILL: somebody. So, You maybe know, Okay. the government we need to liaison get this
problem resolved. So, MALE anything to add? There is some that's kind of where we sit. PARTICIPANT: Okay. So, Bruce,
FEMALE PARTICIPANT:
K>
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379
2 3 4
there quickly
5
6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 2 2 calls NARAC, So, that information. Also, not as we're getting information like to, from we gave them
rapidly as we would
because,
apparently, they
we sent them information this morning, and the emails. So, we resent again this
deleted
afternoon.
So,
nine o'clock tomorrow their time. FEMALE PARTICIPANT: And But we are still that's all Local time, yes. we have.
the information
anything from (inaudible)? No, we're just getting the press a lot of
regarding
release
that
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380
1
2 3 4
went out.
FEMALE PARTICIPANT: Yes, we developed
Q&As for that press release. (Inaudible.) FEMALE (inaudible, possibly, MALE (inaudible). BRUCE BOGER: Go ahead, Mike. that PARTICIPANT: "finish them"). Bruce, Mike Yes, we did
7 8 9 1 11 12 13 1 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
PARTICIPANT:
MIKE FRANOVICH:
Those calculations
are posted that are linked to a recent statement don't seem to make any sense because the dose from a four-
unit reactor release on the spreadsheet or on the PDF file that is attached release is less than any it than from those of indication a of
without So,
assumptions.. is
release So, it
greater
doesn't seem to make any sense. PARTICIPANT: Well, we did the and
FEMALE
four-reactor release assuming certain assumptions, I don't have the press release with me. on the press release, the assumptions
And one was run on the 15th. Do you have the press release? MALE PARTICIPANT: NEAL R.GROSS
COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. WASHINGTON. D.C. 20005-3701
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have
the
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381 1 (inaudible). FEMALE PARTICIPANT: Okay. One was done We did the knowing the
2 3
on the 15th and one was done on the 16th. one-reactor release on the 15th,
assumptions that we had then, 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 1 16 17 18 19 2 2 22 23 24 2 questions, it is and get it. MIKE FRANOVICH:
that we did on the 16th
was with
four-reactor, reactors,
assumed
one
reactor
in
the
four
and then,
I think my point is
that
comes across
kind of questions that we're getting. FEMALE PARTICIPANT: Yes, they were based four-
on system condition estimates for a hypothetical reactor release, but we took into it
the assumptions
that not all reactors are releasing at the same time. So, I think we have the answers and the Q&As that
382 1 MALE PARTICIPANT: Other questions? 3 again. I want Bill was just At to go back for a minute to what on MIKE FRANOVICH: This is Mike Franovich Thanks, Trish.
"saying")
strategies. about,
some discussion
instead of water,
the approach? MALE PARTICIPANT: discussion whether or not I know it's they add sand still or under water. if So
There's pros and cons of both. you put that, sand on it, that it
just to cool it
Bill,
BILL:
on these spent-fuel pools. MIKE FRANOVICH: for Chuck Casto, with the Okay. My next question I know this Tokyo
they're morning,
TEPCO
but where is
that located?
that in
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383
1
2 3 still 5 6 7 8 9 1i 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24
25
PARTICIPANT:
Right
now,
they're
FRANOVICH:
Tokyo?
Okay.
And we
have Jim and Tony with NISA? MALE PARTICIPANT: This morning -they
And,
then,
conditions. R. of
Are they considering raising that again? this is driven with or is by the Are some strategies we more
that to
discussing limitation
them. there
working
discussion
perhaps going beyond that limit? MALE PARTICIPANT: not on the site, right? FEMALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: them embedded with TEPCO is statement.
embedded,
Well,
speak,
They
have
been
let's
to
TEPCO.
But
my
my picture --
terms here --
NEAL R. GROSS
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384 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 picture of put them in "embedded" means I put one or two people, the middle that of the organization So, and is I
they not
organization.
that
Okay.
so much --
more
16
17 18 19
KS>
20
21 22 23 24 25 FEMALE PARTICIPANT: Yes.
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COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
We did that earlier tonight. MIKE FRANOVICH: You did? Yes. Okay, I'll stop Okay.
FEMALE PARTICIPANT: 5 now. 7 TRISH additional just got in HOLOHAN: MIKE FRANOVICH:
Got it.
We
just
got
in
the we
8
9 1 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 1 19 2 21 22 23 2 2
information --
this is
Trish Holohan --
the additional information from NARAC that So, we're analyzing it now. 50
we've requested.
Coast of the U.S. MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: Other questions? This is (inaudible), I heard
One of them is
to establishing another power line into the facility. Do you have any information on that? MALE PARTICIPANT: We've heard that also. And that,
We asked Chuck that specifically earlier today. they but don't have any additional skeptical information whether on
that would,
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387 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 2 like question is, attack some of the breakers and things like that that might
he was leaning more toward the plan of and that's figure out
conference call that there had been five lethal doses. Do we have any information on possible radiation
fatalities? MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: (No response.) MALE to do is call. that So, morning PARTICIPANT: Okay. time What for have I would None in Okay, Okay. Other questions? here.
thanks.
suggest It
a different out at to
morning's phone
turns up
that we eight
calls
line
o'clock a
I'm
going
7:30 the at
and,
then, So,
with
tomorrow night.
join us
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388 1 2 3 4 MALE PARTICIPANT: BRUCE BOGER: Okay. Okay. Thanks, Thank you, all. Bruce.
You're welcome.
5 6
7 8
19
iC 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2C 21 22 23 24 2E
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389 1 2 3 Headquarters (CONFERENCE CALL INITIATED) MALE PARTICIPANT: Officer. Th. is Joh:n is Monager the is
Operations
coming up on the bridge. FEMALE PARTICIPANT: 6 7 8 4 9 JOHN MONAGER: Hey, We're r eady. is this t Iarty?
FEMALE PARTICIPANT: BRUCE (inaudible). JOHN MONAGER; BRUCE BOGER: JOHN MONAGER: a heads-up, now are over Hey, BOGER:
5
1 1 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23
(Inaudible). We wanted to give you guys Chuck and Tony the equivalent Room. They
down of
here
the White
House
Situation
such that they could show us And what they that the spentthe
a video of the Unit 4 spent-fuel pool. are going to show us, fuel pool has water, we believe, has is
had water,
potentially
entire time. We think the reason they're doing that is because or maybe I guess of maybe statements the Chairman's hearing the NRC has made yesterday
testimony
24 25
saying that Unit 4 the spent-fuel pool was dry. So, Chuck hasn't seen the video yet, but
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any clarifications or corrections we need to do. Did that make sense? MALE PARTICIPANT:
JOHN MONAGER:
Right,
Well,
I mean it's
MALE PARTICIPANT:
Bad
JOHN MONAGER:
Yes.
MALE PARTICIPANT:
Right,
believe
reported for the past, you know, 24-48 hours is and 2, 4, the spent-fuel pools are boiling;
reaction,
I'm not sure where we got that summary I know we were under the belief wall had been blown out, but
NEAL R.GROSS
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391 1 2 3 John. 5 McIntyre. 7 8 9 1 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 2 2 is yet, but if now. video? JOHN MONAGER: Chuck is down at the Conti anytime now. What time are you all going to see that DAVE MCINTYRE: John, this is Dave regardless of that, someone else would have had to
MALE PARTICIPANT:
you know,
I would imagine we would hear back from him within the hour. DAVE McINTYRE: JOHN MONAGER: MALE Okay, Okay. John, there were some thank you.
PARTICIPANT:
other questions related to whether you guys are still trying to get to the site EOC. JOHN MONAGER: morning with NISA, and NISA, which to Yes, is there's a meeting this like the Japanese request NRC, the
we're
going
ask,
broach,
MALE PARTICIPANT: you've figured out where it JOHN MONAGER: we've been No.
asking,
NEALR. GROSS
COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
392 things to be asked. The other meeting we're which is having this
just
chatted
to discuss the spent-fuel pool cooling system, going to broach in the subject about, as if a
bringing
not the ET
PARTICIPANT:
a concern related
the levels
what we would subject our folks to. JOHN MONAGER: guess my thoughts, emergency response. it's -Twenty-five. 25 rem limit or what, Right, right. You know, I
we would follow NRC guidelines for You know, I guess, it's what?
you know, we have dosimetry out et cetera. Yes, yes. You know,
Tim called.
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393 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 2 you know, dose, maybe putting maybe mixed I is that he gave us a briefing on that yesterday. MALE PARTICIPANT: we're in the position I don't think the sense of making the heroic
John,
sounds like to me it
would preclude us
from assembling and operating this equipment. JOHN MONAGER: thoughts thought Oh, oh, so, yes, you there was asked the the NRC
When
question, employees
thinking
government
operating
that's really the basis for the question. JOHN MONAGER: Yes, yes. Well, I mean,
I mean you have those explosions out there. someone U.S. is not getting in to the think dosed, but if for
you're those
potential about
explosions, too.
that
aspect,
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394 1 2 3 4 raise 6 7 it. TEPCO, MALE PARTICIPANT: So, when you talked to --
their need to assemble and operate this equipment? JOHN I MONAGER: think they Yes. haven't We'll asked definitely for the
equipment is
The question
whether they'll raise it. I guess my question for you guys is, if
9 1 1 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2 21 22 23 24 25
they raise the personnel support, say no or what? MALE PARTICIPANT: little more information. there. JOHN MONAGER: MALE had a name, report Yokota Right. We
would we definitely
Well,
believe
equipment is
PARTICIPANT: base
we base the
people,
soldiers
Defense Forces of Japan at 0600 picked up five pumps from that air base. JOHN MONAGER: Right. And are driving them on
MALE PARTICIPANT: the 196 miles to Fukushima. JOHN MONAGER: the difficulty is, if
Right.
I'll
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395 1 2 3 4 this whole notion out there that they haven't asked
of some issues already. MALE PARTICIPANT: JOHN MONAGER: Yes, Yes. yes. That was true. All right.
6 7
one of the emails out there? MALE PARTICIPANT: see if No, I talked to a Major It's Yokota Air a Major -well,
Base. Metudac
they're really not called "soldiers" from the Defense Forces of Japan
picked
equipment,
to Fukushima.
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396
1 2
3
4
7 8 9 1 -looking for
Right,
PARTICIPANT: we need to
find
out
where
1i
12 13 14 1 1 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
got
engineering the rest of the equipment JOHN MONAGER: Okay. -you know,
MALE PARTICIPANT: to be done. We're also in is the working in air base parallel can
what needs
parallel,
supply,
different supply streams working to get this stuff up there. JOHN MONAGER: MALE happen, then, is That's good. But to know, what you needs know, to if
PARTICIPANT: we need
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397 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 2 MALE PARTICIPANT: Right. o'clock information, see if somebody from TEPCO, when you talk to them, where is
this equipment going to be? We are also working with Naval Reactors to they can contact these guys en route, such that
we know where they are going to have this equipment, the staging area for it. So, it if you can help us with that
about
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should be pretty basic. MALE PARTICIPANT: Well, here's our plan: The stuff is
just basic,
to go
assemble it
with the --
with the Japanese that are actually going to assemble it at the site. So, the view is you assemble it. right? You have
MALE PARTICIPANT:
The Japanese
can write
their own assembly procedure and operating procedure. You disassemble it. take it to the site. The Japanese then take it. They reassemble it They
and they
operate it. JOHN MONAGER: That's sounds perfect. MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: where the staging area is. JOHN MONAGER: Yes, we're going to find Yes. So, we have to find out Yes, that sounds perfect.
out the staging area and some of these other issues. NEAL R. GROSS
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399
1 2 3 4 fields. Now, Oh, I'm sorry, the other I'm drawing a blank. issue was the high rad
5
6 7
8 9 10 11 12 13 14 1 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 JOHN MONAGER: agreement here. Now the thing for these pumps, et cetera. you know, that came to my mind was, I think we re in complete
The notion was to have them all ready on or whatever, They don't the a
the back of flatbed trucks or trailers, so they can just be driven in have the time or to have the exposure, to put it and parked.
exposure
going
couple miles per hour, beach. with They have the thing in,
you know,
on a truck or if it's
on a trailer,
(202) 234-4433
rate issue when you bring this stuff in? JOHN dose-rate issue. MALE PARTICIPANT: Okay. It changes all the time, 20 MONAGER: There is an incredible
6 7
JOHN MONAGER:
you know,
9 1 11 12 13 1 15 16 17 18 19
20 you know,
MALE PARTICIPANT:
Yes.
that's doing the remainder of the engineering on this. JOHN MONAGER: MALE that they Right. So, is we'll really make a sure
understand
design
Yes.
The other
thing is,
with a go with
connections,
21 22 23 24 25 You know,
Yes,
the engineers,
at Bechtel are working this problem as we speak. JOHN MONAGER: All right. We are going to
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401 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22
All right.
23 24
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402 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 (phonetic) not that? I reviewed the video. Tony and Brook it's Operations bridge. FEMALE PARTICIPANT: CHUCK CASTO: A couple of Hey, We're here, Chuck. hey, guys. One, a couple of (CONFERENCE CALL INITIATED) MALE PARTICIPANT: Chuck This Casto is Headquarters up on the
Officer.
coming
things.
work on more lines or a sneak line or a dedicated line or something, you. MALE PARTICIPANT: CHUCK CASTO: If Okay. you guys would work on so that we can get straight through to
You know, a at
about
that's field.
lot
of
things
four units.
I mean you really can't see anything. there. You don't know if it's
There's
something
steel or water.
a reflection.
COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com
5
6 7 8 9 1 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 o'clock p.m.,
The way I
got
it
was
five
Japanese Standard Time. FEMALE PARTICIPANT: CHUCK CASTO: So, it's Okay. been about 14 hours
ago or something like that. Clearly, greater rate. try some Unit 3 is steaming at a much
ineffective, future,
sometime
tanks and
you know,
my judgment,
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COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
404 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2 21 22 23 24 25 fix, and so is building has had an explosion. see in there, for the debris. I mean you can hardly To think that you're there and of a
going to shoot a crowd control cannon up in have some effective cooling of a zirc, spent-fuel pool, And I don't know if either way,
you know,
that's
a helicopter drop.
but you're not going to be able to drop into that spent-fuel I guess, pool. You
efficiently
a long-term fix. So, we still need to work on the permanent whatever you call it,
something quasi-permanent,
PARTICIPANT:
and I've got to go see the Minister of that and other issues. And, then, we
briefing here at
10:30,
and a
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PARTICIPANT: is fending
Hey, off
Chuck, news;
come
on,
the
you're
(inaudible, possibly "bothered") by name. CHUCK CASTO: that. Where was I going? on that. MALE PARTICIPANT: No, no, we're You guys distracted me I don't care about any of
CHUCK CASTO:
The Chairman,
you know,
we
need to probably let Bill and the Chairman know that on yesterday we were going by we thought the explosion, 4 spent-fuel that, with
there was structural damage to the Unit pool. We don't really know if there's
There's
there as
because
And Unit 3 is
I think
24
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406 1
3 4
5
6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 question. meeting, special MALE PARTICIPANT: of that video, do you? CASTO: They claim that it's a You don't have a copy
that takes a special video player software, and the file's too large
MALE PARTICIPANT: CHUCK CASTO: let us have that video. know, that thing gets
Look,
interested in sharing that thing with us right now. MALE PARTICIPANT: No, no, I was just
asking to complete. CHUCK CASTO: We asked Yes. and So, i I mean that was a good it was asked in the
that,
They say,
. NEAL R.GROSS
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407 I 2 3 4 5j 6 7 8 9 10 1i 12 13 1 1 1 1 1 19 2 2 22 23 24 2 away, some question, the video fuel pool? design tell that with me, and he looked at it. What's your assessment of it? I mean it's as the helicopter is flying by. Yes. on the facility but I couldn't just a split-second shot CHUCK CASTO: = .is from DOE,
a thing.
CHUCK CASTO:
the
BILL:
Do we know it's
Are we certain that that's the case? CHUCK Bill. from CASTO: Because Conti, Well, that's a good
where
the spent-fuel
pool is."
fuel pool that we was looking at. NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: CHUCK CASTO: feet away, Chuck, Chuck
--
the building.
right where we think the spent-fuel pool wind's blowing really hard today and
wind's
blowing the steam away from the spent-fuel pool." NEAL R. GROSS
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408 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 11 1 13 14 15 16
17
NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: CHUCK CASTO: what the hell we looked at. MALE PARTICIPANT: So,
Chuck,
think
the
Chuck?
You've got --
Chuck?
had an
a building that's
that's
split-seconds.
Chuck?
that -I'm
They're methods
18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
sorry,
Mr.
me the source of your belief the No. (sic) fuel pool? Well, that's
that there
CASTO:
what
we were us
about.
Yesterday
they
showed
snapshots,
and it
WA2MIF.T("AN
fl Cn 9r.
-?flr. 1
mw npnlrnrnqQ rnm
409
pool for Unit 4. 2 NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: the -CHUCK CASTO: the Japanese looked, 7 8 9 1 1 12 13 14 1 1 17 1 19 2 21 22 23 24 2 would guess, four units, after Government I'm sorry. showed us it TEPCO and Conti, snapshots, looked and like it the And again, they are
3
4
the explosion,
and
Those were outer walls of the building. saying, not still well,
the pool doesn't have an outer wall, with the outer wall, so they
associated be intact.
could
they
flew
helicopter
by
the
really inconclusive
as you look
at the video, which they showed us, with us, there said, it for whatever reasons. looks is like a reflection that
"Well,
the spent-fuel
guy says,
the spent-
and we think that's a water reflection." Off is to the side about 15 or 20 feet, I So,
you would assume that that's the spent-fuel pool with some amount of water in 14 hours ago. NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: NEAL R.GROSS
COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. WASHINGTON. D.C. 20005-3701
it,
left in
it.
Uh-hum.
So,
do you
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410 1
2 3 4 there is There 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 which it's at know, don't is have any change in pool, of water in CHUCK your view of the pool? CASTO: I would It say, with steam, the condition of the
pool,
hours ago. NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: CHUCK there was know how 14 CASTO: some much hours in So, of was Okay. we don't in know. it, You but we it's you
water in it
because tell
steaming,
but
today we can't
CHAIRMAN
the pool right now? That's what I was asking the would take a lot
the pool,
there's
You don't know the steaming rate, how there. There's a lot. let's say take
You know, you could assume that, the top at the fuel.
Their recovery methods are to try, again, they've, I think, failed once, to drop water
NEAL R.GROSS
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411 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21
22
you know, In
a riot, are a
controls.
those
highly-inefficient methods of trying to get water in spent-fuel pool, an especially in a building that's
had
everywhere.
And we are
not even sure that that pump has enough head to pump up to the top of that building. a good try. You should do it So, you know, but that's not an
maybe,
effective or a long-term solution. NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: So, at this point, Is that
you no longer believe that the pool is what I'm hearing? CHUCK o'clock yesterday, CASTO: I would
dry?
say,
as
of it.
five
JACZKO:
that's inaccurate?
CHUCK CASTO: We can
--
it's
so
23
24
inconclusive,
mean
--
we
really
can't
tell,
either
way.
NRC
CHAIRMAN
JACZKO:
Well,
so
it's
NEALR.GROSS
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412 1 2 3 4 inaccurate you're tell me. CHUCK CASTO: inaccurate to say it's dry. Okay. today, in it with the at five I would say it's probably for me It's to say okay it's if dry? that's Is the that case; what just
saying?
6
7 8 9 10 Okay. 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 We have video, that
appears
some water
o'clock yesterday or it
Anything else? Did we get Marty? MALE PARTICIPANT: Marty's here, yes. Marty, did you want
NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: to say something on the call? MARTY VIRGILIO: one dose limit No, that
between age or gender. NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MARTY VIRGILIO: Okay. saidElE
That
6-,-
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413
2
3 4
6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 So, NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: we're still comfortable -Well, tell okay. Good.
well,
me which of
CASTO:
NEAL R.GROSS
COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
414 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 11 12 13 14 1 16 17 18 19 2 21 22 23 24 2 Monager was dry? MARTY VIRGILIO: yesterday, and they That's what he told John asked John, given a dry source of it? MARTY VIRGILIO: Yes. TEPCO said the pool know, but know, dry. NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: they speak Right, right. No, I our necessarily dry? MARTY VIRGILIO: Well, speak that's not, you being 1. NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: good with Okay. that But we're not the pool is all of them. NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MARTY VIRGILIO: Okay. good with No. MARTY VIRGILIO: CHUCK CASTO: Yes.
I'm still
the statement
to the pool
to my credibility.
That's
the
where that statement came from. John Monager yesterday. NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO:
Okay,
that's
the
NEAL R. GROSS
COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
what are
the
four or
five
things,
what
things
could we do to control the radiation release? NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: CHUCK CASTO: only one. same thing. NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: CHUCK "Well, CASTO: Now Okay. today they're saying, I think, Okay.
to Jim Trapp,
we were just postulating that it NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MARTY VIRGILIO: I Okay. mean
would go dry."
that
was was
you had lost the integrity of the pool? NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: Okay. That's fine.
Okay. MARTY Government great. NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MARTY VIRGILIO: I'd like to see a better Yes. I am hopeful, than we had are now VIRGILIO: changing So, their TEPCO position. and the
That's
416 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 have that (inaudible). MARTY VIRGILIO: No, because we didn't question. where is was also MALE recording So, PARTICIPANT: dose at rates a in Notwithstanding rems per hour at in least we're the a
vicinity.
minimum,
there's
significant amount of fuel that's exposed. NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MARTY VIRGILIO: 30 rem between Yes. The last I saw
Right. and 4.
Building 3
I don't know
where that number came from. MALE PARTICIPANT: from uncovered fuel. MARTY VIRGILIO: NRC CHAIRMAN Right. Okay. And that, That's right. That's
JACZKO:
that dose measurement coming from? MARTY VIRGILIO: What I read was between
from the field team somewhere. FEMALE PARTICIPANT: But that's the
yesterday.
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417 1 2 3 4 and look. Unit 4. FEMALE PARTICIPANT: 6 7 8 9 the field? FEMALE Japanese website, PARTICIPANT:
--
provide that information? FEMALE PARTICIPANT: We ran (inaudible) I'd have 40 rems to go back in
(inaudible)
last night,
It
was
(inaudible)
11
11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
JAIF
No, over.
it
can't
(inaudible).
(Inaudible). MALE too. (Inaudible). MALE PARTICIPANT: can we provide you? NRC CHAIRMAN still JACZKO: So, again, are we Mr. Chairman, what else PARTICIPANT: Yes, he heard that,
comfortable with the four statements? CHUCK CASTO: We are here in Okay. Japan. But we have about the pool
so,
the source of
the information
NEAL R. GROSS
COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE, N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701
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418 NRC directly right, from CHAIRMAN JACZKO: TEPCO to John Okay. So, it was it's
Monager.
Maybe
maybe it's
wrong,
but what is
the likelihood,
you think,
that we have a full pool at this point? CHUCK CASTO: It's highly unlikely with
the steam that's boiling off of it. NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: indications of steam? CHUCK CASTO: Yes, it's on the Okay. And you have
-the
Unit 4.
steam. NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: CHUCK CASTO: Okay. steaming more than
Unit 3 is
Okay. is on Unit
their focus
--
Okay.
VIRGILIO:
K>
Yes.
Yes.
And those
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419
JACZKO:
Chuck,
is
it
KS>
at the meeting --
Marty,
I'm not on a
I understand.
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420 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 1 1 17 1 19 2 21 22 23 24 25 Thanks. Okay. ELIOT: Thanks, Mr. everybody. Eliot. it, this alone. NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: saying you're still Okay. 4? So, you're and, is fourth, that So, NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: again, we're still Okay. Well, thanks.
CHAIRMAN JACZKO:
have some question about the amount of water in fuel pool No. 4? Right. Okay. our Okay.
CHUCK CASTO:
Does the
views
about
recommendations? MARTY VIRGILIO: NRC CHAIRMAN 4? No, not the 50 miles. Okay. But the
JACZKO: Marty,
4 point is? MARTY VIRGILIO: yes, based Yes. Yes, I'm looking at and again, dose
based on -on
radioactive
Okay.
Okay.
Chairman,
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421 1 2 3 4 NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: ELIOT: Mr. Chairman? Yes? hearing anything correct? Yes, that's to Bye.
5 6
7
suggest we should be rolling back tonight, NRC correct. ELIOT: NRC wanted to add? ELIOT: No, no. I mean, Thank you. JACZKO: CHAIRMAN JACZKO: Yes.
8 9
Ii 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 .18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Unit 3. You know, dry, it, but it it's
CHAIRMAN
Anything
else
you
Chuck,
let
of the statements that I made? CHUCK CASTO: I don't, It I don't think so.
Unit 4 --
Okay.
the best
--
think is
Okay. 3, certainly on
Or on Unit
Okay.
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you know
NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: 5CHUCK 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 Thanks. Bye. CHUCK CASTO: BRUCE BOGER: CHUCK CASTO: BRUCE BOGER: a little while ago -Bruce? Yes, CASTO: --
It
will be dry?
Chuck?
What else do we need to -I think where we were headed Bill, don't go away -yes,
13
14 1 16 17 18 19 2 21 22 23 2 2
trying to figure out how to get the hard the rest of the stuff necessary to
establish a pumping system. CHUCK CASTO: BRUCE BOGER: working pretty Right. We heard the request. and trying We're our some to of
aggressively,
to work
way through some of our -bureaucratic-type encounter. paths going, out there. CHUCK CASTO: Bill things advises
we've
That's
great,
and
know
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1 2
13
happens.
1
1 16 1 1 19 2 2 22
If
and
--
oh,
I've
I
got to go to a meeting with the Ambassador and them, forgot, at 10:30 here, So, in two minutes.
We to
want to come through on that after committing to it the Prime Minister. MALE PARTICIPANT: to the point where we Yes. Well, to need
we may get
are going
there to sign off on a procurement for Bechtel. 23 CHUCK CASTO: Okay. We'll is. get whomever
24
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424 to a point where that might happen. him a heads-up along the way, CHUCK CASTO: this to? MALE PARTICIPANT: CHUCK CASTO: MALE PARTCICIPTANT CHUCK CASTO:
FEMALE PARTICIPANT: CHUCK CASTO: Head of the I)ART.
So,
--
if
you give
that's
Who's this,
I 'm sorry?
The DART?
MALE DART.
PARTICIPANT:
Yes,
he's hea d of
the
CHUCK CASTO:
Yes,
DART, That's
we're working well together. no problem. MALE PARTICIPANT: down the pike. Thanks. CASTO: All
Okay.
CHUCK soon.
right.
Talk
to
you
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425
1
2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 meeting, Headquarters
Operations
Chuck Casto
up on the bridge. FEMALE PARTICIPANT: CHUCK CASTO: Hey, We're here. hey, guys, Hey, Chuck.
Chuck. to another
11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 there was helicopter steam last night went by, at there's building. For me, I'm evermore convinced that
to that on it.
integrity
steam or smoke.
might have been a fire inside the building. tell. FEMALE PARTICIPANT: CHUCK CASTO: Unit 4,
You can't
correct?
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And the
mm
-m
18
19 20 21 22 23 24 25 So, I feel as
NEAL R.GROSS
COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
427 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 heard, confident in this stuff as you can to stick with the
Chairman's statement. MALE PARTICIPANT: that the Japanese and, Yes. were also, Now what we also talking a riot about cannon,
buckets
10
provide some additional water. FEMALE PARTICIPANT: You can see the
12 13 14 15 16 18
Yes,
they've
got
Yes,
I haven't
seen the TV
okay,
to this other
18
'9 20 23
I think.
We
22
23 24
they've
got
pumps
NEAL R.GROSS
COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701
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So,
FEMALE PARTICIPANT: as our No. there. CHUCK priority. All right, work. guys. CASTO: Get 1 priority now, is
equipment,
that's
Hey,
You guys are doing a great job. FEMALE PARTICIPANT: All right, Chuck, go
Thanks.
Bye. Bye.
FEMALE PARTICIPANT:
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429 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2> 21 22 23 24 2 meanwhile, to let based we're here. FEMALE PARTICIPANT: NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: the status is? of a worst-case would We're here. Hi. Do we know what Headquarters (CONFERENCE CALL INITIATED) MALE PARTICIPANT: This is the coming
Ops Officer.
Chairman Jaczko is
up on the bridge. NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MALE PARTICIPANT: Yes. Yes, Hello. Mr. Hello.
Chairman,
We were doing some MACCS runs on kind scenario Do to see what the the West Coast status of those
impacts results?
be.
we know
PARTICIPANT:
we wanted and
you know we just heard from Chuck Casto, on some information he just received
NEAL R.GROSS
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430
NRC have
CHAIRMAN other
JACZKO:
Okay. that
Okay. there's
So no
confirmation
haven't gotten the report back from NARAC on the runs they were doing on the West Coast implications. NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: Okay. I thought we
were running our own independent runs. VONNA ORDAZ: We can't do that beyond 50
MALE
PARTICIPANT:
Fifty Vonna is I
miles right.
is,
JACZKO: earlier in
understood,
the day,
and she
said we were going to run some MACCS codes of our own, independent from NARAC. MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: NRC CHAIRMAN Out of Research. Okay, out of Research. Yes, out of
JACZKO:
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and we may not be at the top of that list. NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: Yes, that's fine.
But we were going to do the MACCS runs. going to do that. FEMALE PARTICIPANT: NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: Okay. Is
Research was
8
9 FEMALE room, but we can
--
PARTICIPANT:
She's
not
in
the
10
11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 2
MALE PARTICIPANT: the Center. MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: but I don't think -NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: back to feeling confident
haven't
seen her
in
Yes, Yes,
So,
we're is an
that
the pool
accurate statement? MALE information we PARTICIPANT: just got Yes, based it's on the
from Chuck,
validating
where we've been all day. NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: Hey, if Okay. Okay.
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432 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 1 13 15 Thanks. FEMALE PARTICIPANT: NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: Thank you. Bye. MALE PARTICIPANT:
Jennifer and --
Okay.
NRC
CHAIRMAN
JACZKO:
Okay.
Thanks.
16
1E
2C 21 22 23 24 25q
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433 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 on the line. the line? MALE PARTICIPANT: Go ahead. MARTY VIRGILIO: This is Marty Virgilio. Yes, Naval Reactors is (CONFERENCE CALL INITIATED) MALE PARTICIPANT: Naval Reactors is on
I was looking for Steve Trautman. MR. is not in the BURROWS ECC (phonetic): now. Yes, is Mr. Mr. Trautman Burrows
8
9
right
This
10
(phonetic).
12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 2 22 23 2 25
Mr.
Roberts.
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434 1 2 3 with me, wanted (CONFERENCE CALL INITIATED) MALE PARTICIPANT: I have Tom Roberts here
and I guess we're hearing that Admiral Donald to talk to the Chairman to get some
4 5
6 7
clarification.
8
9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
K>
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.11
2 3 4
7 8 9
12 13 12
115
16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 2 2 MALE PARTICIPANT: plugged into that, radiologically to
--
Right.
And so,
are you
to advise on whether it
makes sense
MALE PARTICIPANT: more than radiological issues -MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT:
Yes.
No,
I think it's
has under consideration right now. You know, our position is that it is
NEAL R. GROSS
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436
wmmu mm
K'S\
E
11
14
1E 12
18 19 2 21
22
23
24
MALE PARTICIPANT:
MALE PARTICIPANT:
Right.
This is
--
--
(Inaudible)
25
MALE
PARTICIPANT:
This
is
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(202) 234-443
responding to the Ambassador's request at this point. MALE PARTICIPANT: isn't Okay. Let me ask the at the PEG
there an ALARA consideration here We made calculate relative that to if, your in fact,
level?
assumptions 7
50-mile
9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17
200
wouldn't
sense, wouldn't
we're make
talking
voluntary
departure,
sense to recommend voluntary departure in avoiding that level of population dose? MALE PARTICIPANT: opinion? MALE PARTICIPANT: Sure.
the name of
18
19 2 21 22 23 24 251 MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: That's my own personal view. And Right.
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438
I 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12
radiation is
just one factor. MALE PARTICIPANT: Right. on So, but what we or you are
are
charged
with
advising
--
radiation
PARTICIPANT:
And
that's
in
our
protective action to up to 50 miles. MALE PARTICIPANT: being so rigid in right strict thing is Right, but why are we The to
interpretation of PEG.
14
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439 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 is, you could get there. MALE PARTICIPANT: Yes, so the question
17
181
19 20 211 22 23 24 25
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440 .1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10
-mI
MIN
-mi
-
-U
mU m-,i
mmm-
-
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12A
13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
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asked to advise strictly on radiological grounds, would or would not take into consideration ALARA? MALE PARTICIPANT: Yes, if I would,
but
take in that
-on this
bear
decision.. MALE PARTICIPANT: VONNA ORDAZ: And Okay. other countries have
PARTICIPANT:
Ordaz is
In
the press
me,
releases
she is
here with
and
saying
in
the
press
releases
other
countries
are
acknowledging that the radioactive dose is many considerations. VONNA ORDAZ: Structural Right.
--
just one of
(inaudible)
--
MALE PARTICIPANT:
VONNA communications, ORDAZ:
--
transportation,
and other
Right, ka.
yes. S
-
''
"
COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS I~r.AL ISLAND M. UKUbb 1323 RHODE AVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com
(202) 234-4433
K>"
Thanks.
Yes,
we're
All right.
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444 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 he'll left think things, if (CONFERENCE CALL INITIATED) DAN DORMAN: JOSH BATKIN: DAN DORMAN: Hi, Josh. Who's that?
Hello.
Hello,
a good time.
This is
First of all,
important day for a number of reasons, great job of So, producing if information
important.
that
his
sleeping
bag
rolled out in the corner. JOSH BATKIN: (Laughter.) Put him get some quiet. My other two quick things were the in the corner by the table, so Awesome.
NEAL R.GROSS
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Chairman, o'clock
Marty, from
the Chairman is
the White
House again.
o'clock call tomorrow morning at the White House -MARTY VIRGILIO: to the White House for that. JOSH BATKIN: Right, he will be there for Right, right, he will go
the Situation Room at the White House. Is there any way that you guys could, so
as to further use all of the wonderful work that will go on over the night to update the information that we have, is there any way somebody could get him an
updated book or get me an updated book at House before eight o'clock? MARTY VIRGILIO: think. Yes,
the White
We could figure that out. JOSH BATKIN: Okay. Where would it be best to
MARTY VIRGILIO:
you're going to be with him? JOSH BATKIN: Yes, I'll be with him.
I'll
still
be here.
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446 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 I1 11 1 1 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 that. MALE PARTICIPANT: That's no problem. right office. feel now. So, update in book") at the sleepy. JOSH BATKIN: Yes, exactly. Yes, if somebody could just meet me at like 7:45 or something? Oh, no. No, you should be
No. southwest
gate
Yes,
around 6:00. MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: Right, So, right. we slip a somebody's
even if
JOSH BATKIN:
Does he have -he physically a second one has his in our one, yes,
you wanted
that to,
free.
Otherwise,
--
you
right.
Sorry
about
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447 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 minutes encourage MALE PARTICIPANT: him to call in, And, too, Josh, if you can, I mean,
absolutely. Yes, if
JOSH
do you
think,
Ask me in Yes.
the morning.
11
12 13
14
BATKIN:
Okay.
All
right.
Well,
15 16 17 18 19 20 .21 22 23 24 2 sign.
I'll
tell,
Josh,
from is not
come
things
radically different from when I left 16 hours earlier. JOSH BATKIN: Yes. I count that as a good
MALE PARTICIPANT:
JOSH BATKIN:
Yes.
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COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
448 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 2 that's have on it, MALE PARTICIPANT: JOSH always on. MALE PARTICIPANT: JOSH BATKIN: did he give any So, Okay. my other question was, on a high threshold to BATKIN: Yes, that's the number BlackBerry, a sign when some folks are saying things were better, but anyway. MALE just PARTICIPANT: so that when we Can we have your
down with the book, we can connect with you? JOSH BATKIN: Yes. Can you have my
BlackBerry phone number? MALE PARTICIPANT: JOSH personal cell. MALE PARTICIPANT: JOSH BATKIN: Oh, okay. the ringer I always BATKIN: Yes. Oh, yes, just use my
That's
instructions
about that just the last phone call we had. JOSH BATKIN: Okay. And I said, "If we need
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449 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 announcement saying, needed you know, to do and is he was empowering to make sure us to do what we a very high
that was
threshold,
the way I took his remarks. JOSH BATKIN: MALE Good. Great. Don't wake him up
PARTICIPANT:
unless we have to. JOSH BATKIN: And, is for Thank you. instance, That's great. if that not, next
made overnight,
that is
I think,
a reason to call him. MALE PARTICIPANT: Yes. Right. Yes, that's Okay. You mean the
BATKIN:
something there's no action for us on that. MALE PARTICIPANT: JOSH BATKIN: So, I Right, think right. he's sat through
But if
at the plant or anything, well, MALE PARTICIPANT: and I said I'd try not call from Admiral Donald, (Laughter.) NEAL R.GROSS
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from him at like 6:30. Shall we all him at home?" (Laughter.) They said,
They're like,
"What's
I said,
"Put him on the bridge." already on the bridge." wake him up." Okay.
"Okay.
9
1 11
I think that's
--
MALE PARTICIPANT: your night shift covered. JOSH BATKIN: MALE too. JOSH BATKIN: that Oh,
--
All right.
We've got
12
13 1 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
Okay, some
great. sleep,
PARTICIPANT:
someone delivered the book to him tonight while the meeting, like 15 or 20 minutes So, the into the thank you folks who
he was in meeting, to --
you it. on
updated working
document,
information
going for his use at the highest levels of government, so it is an important and vital and appreciated
We invented it
here on
MALE PARTICIPANT: JOSH BATKIN: So, appreciation on it. MALE PARTICIPANT: yes,
to everybody who is
It's
this
crew
that
invented the whole concept of the (inaudible, "go book" or "gold book"). JOSH BATKIN: Great.
possibly
That's great.
All right, good luck. MALE PARTICIPANT: tomorrow, All right. Talk to you
and-have a good night's sleep. JOSH BATKIN: Bye. You, too. Thanks.
452
1
2 3 4 5MALE 6 7 Ops Officer.
Chuck Casto coming up on the bridge. CHUCK CASTO: This is Chuck Casto. Chuck. You have
PARTICIPANT:
Hey,
8 9
10 1
MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: CHUCK get a hold of me. MALE though. CHUCK CASTO: number right. that was trying Okay. to CASTO: I
I don't know what the message is. PARTICIPANT: Okay. It wasn't us,
12
13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 Ministry of
It
call was.
the the
talking
2 NEAL R.GROSS
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I
z
5 6
71
8 9
10
ii1 121 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23
24
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454
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 13 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 2 rc And by the way, I'm headed trom the
K>
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COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
455
2
3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2 21 22 23 24 25 actions other And I think that's about it. CHRIS MILLER: Chuck, it's Miller. they're taking It some MALE PARTICIPANT: would be helpful, I And that sounds great. if they're planning
think,
sort of action to like provide additional water it would be really helpful if we understood in those
supplies,
levels
Right.
And
they and
promised to share their radiation results with us, we're with flying DOE, over now. get There's that flyovers
happening They
and
we'll
information.
information.
K>
they get
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no,
don't
get
the
that.
helicopters, hose,
6
7 8 9 1 1 12 13 1 1 16 17 18 19
called,
yes. beyond
mean,
long-term solution. Finally -and I'm about to go into a as get team out
but, the
then,
for our team as far as, what areas? you what getting a
you know, is
do we need just
--
people
you've
assembled
things done.
21
22 23 24 25 Nevertheless, there's still just a few of
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457 1 2 3 us, and we're spread thin. And the Japanese, when
4 5 6
7 meeting.
I've got
8 9
about what
MALE PARTICIPANT:
All right.
Well,
think
Let us know. 11. 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 soon. MALE PARTICIPANT: All right. CHUCK CASTO: Okay. I'll talk to you
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