from the Power department...

Reactive Power

Posted by khan on 19 July, 2010 !"#0 am Real power of $enerator depends upon power input. when load on a $enerator increases, stator current increases. %ue to counter emf the speed is reduced which is a$ain attained by openin$ of the fuel valve. %ue to increase in current terminal volta$e drops which are corrected by increasin$ e&citation current. 'uestion is that the reactive load also re(uire current due to which counter emf would increase then why only e&citation current is increased to meet the )*R+ demand, -as reactive power no effect on power input, Reply to this post... Posted by .+* on 20 July, 2010 /"20 pm 0 like to always refer to the reactive capability curve provided with a synchronous $enerator. 1his curve represents the limits of operation of a particular $enerator, and in my estimation, is useful in describin$ how the ener$y input to the $enerator can be 2split2 or divided. *s we all know, *. power systems with real and reactive components can be represented with a ri$ht trian$le. 3ne le$ of the trian$le represents watts4 the other side of the ri$ht an$le represents )*rs4 and the hypotenuse represent the total ener$y, )*. 0f the e&citation is sufficient to keep the $enerator terminal volta$e e(ual to the volta$e of the electrical system with which the $enerator is synchroni5ed to, then there is no reactive component 6)*rs7 at the $enerator. *ll of the power, )*, is $oin$ out as watts, and none as )*rs. 0f e&citation is increased, which would try to increase the $enerator terminal volta$e above the volta$e of the electrical system with which the $enerator is synchroni5ed, then la$$in$ )*rs will be present at the $enerator terminal. 0f the tor(ue bein$ input to the $enerator are held constant as e&citation is varied, then the amount of watts will decrease as the amount of )*rs increases in the la$$in$ direction as e&citation is increased. 1he )* 6hypotenuse7 of the power trian$le isn8t chan$in$4 9ust the division of ener$y between real and reactive components. +o, as the an$le of the hypotenuse increases above 0 de$rees, if the len$th of the hypotenuse 6the total ener$y input to the $enerator7 remains the same, the len$th of the ad9acent side of the power trian$le decreases, which means the real power output 6watts7 decreases. :ow, how all of that is affected, or not, by counter emf is unknown to me. .ounter emf has never been monitored on any synchronous $enerator 0 have ever seen operatin$, even ones in the lab at university. 0t8s always a theoretical parameter, which is the domain of $enerator desi$ners and manufacturers.

0, as a technician, have to believe that any and all effects of emf and counter emf and back emf and air $ap and conductor si5in$ and conductor spacin$ and twists per turn and all of those thin$s which can8t be chan$ed durin$ operation were all properly accounted for by the $enerator desi$ners and manufacturers and anyone choosin$ an e&citation system 6*)R, *utomatic )olta$e Re$ulator7. 0 don8t know if increasin$ e&citation to chan$e the )*r component of the power trian$le actually chan$es the tor(ue input to the $enerator or not. 0 know it doesn8t chan$e the ener$y flow rate bein$ admitted to the prime mover. ;ut, 0 also know it does have an effect on the total power output of the $enerator. 3ne last thin$ about the reactive component of electrical power. <hen we put *. ener$y into an electric motor 6usually an induction motor7, the power factor of that motor tells us how efficient that motor is at convertin$ the electrical power input to tor(ue output. +ince the power factor is a number less than one, that means that some of the ener$y is 2lost2 to reactive elements and not all of the ener$y input is bein$ directly converted to tor(ue output 6horsepower, or, 2real power27. +ince there8s no real difference between motors and $enerators, 0 think it8s relatively the same with synchronous $enerators, e&cept that the power factor can be 2controlled2 with the e&citer 6*)R7. ;ut, how all that relates to counter emf, a$ain, that8s all 2e$$head2 stuff. *nd when you find a counter emf meter, please write to let us know= 1ake a di$ital photo$raph, and we8ll ask you to post it somewhere we can all view it= Reply to this post... >our use of this site is sub9ect to the terms and conditions set forth under ?e$al :otices and the Privacy Policy. Please read those terms and conditions carefully. +ub9ect to the ri$hts e&pressly reserved to others under ?e$al :otices, the content of this site and the compilation thereof is @ 1999 2010 :erds in .ontrol, ??.. *ll ri$hts reserved. Asers of this site are benefitin$ from open source technolo$ies, includin$ P-P, By+'? and *pache. ;e happy.

from the *utomation ?ist department... What makes a generator increase load

Posted by kumarash on 10 *u$ust, 200! C"D9 pm 0f a $enerator is runnin$ at 100B< of a $as turbine rated 120B< and a command is issued from Bark ) to increase load to 120B<. <hat happens to $enerator that it increases load to 120B<, Reply to this post...

Posted by .+* on 12 *u$ust, 200! 1"01 am 0sn8t it obvious, 0t does so because it is commanded to do so, you said so yourself. *ll $ood $enerators do as commanded, don8t they, +eriously, thou$h, and in as few words as possible, when an operator clicks on Raise +pdE?d or increases the Pre +elected ?oad .ontrol setpoint when the unit is bein$ operated in Pre +elected ?oad .ontrol mode the fuel flow rate into the turbine is increased, which increases the tor(ue bein$ produced by the turbine, which the $enerator converts to amps, which results in an increase in load. For the e&act details of what8s happenin$, read on. 0f one wants to make somethin$ spin, one needs to supply some force to it. 1hat force is usually referred to as tor(ue. 1he more tor(ue applied to somethin$, the faster it will usually spin. %ecrease the tor(ue applied to somethin$, and it will usually slow down. * $as turbine is a device that produces tor(ue, and the amount of tor(ue bein$ produced can be varied, and is in direct proportion 6usually7 to the amount of fuel bein$ burned in the combustor6s7 of the $as turbine. 0ncrease the fuel flow rate, and the amount of tor(ue bein$ produced by the turbine will increase. %ecrease the fuel flow rate, and the amount of tor(ue bein$ produced by the turbine will decrease. 1he $enerator 6more correctly called an alternator7 used with GH desi$n heavy duty $as turbines is a synchronous $enerator. 0t is the nature of synchronous $enerators bein$ operated in parallel with other synchronous $enerators on an *. $rid to supply a load which is much $reater than any sin$le $enerator that they will all be runnin$ at the same speed, and no sin$le $enerator and its prime mover 6the $as turbine in your case7 can operate at speeds hi$her or lower than the other $enerators with which is it connected, because they are synchronous $enerators 6alternators7. 1here is a formula that describes the relationship between the fre(uency of an *. system and the speed and type of synchronous $enerators connected to the system" F I 6P J :7E120, where F is the fre(uency 6in -ert57 of the $rid, P is the number of poles of the $enerators 6an even number never less than two, and the number of poles of any $enerator is usually fi&ed and can8t be chan$ed while the $enerator is runnin$7, and : is the speed of the $enerator rotor, usually the field 6in RPB7. 1he 6synchronous7 $enerators used with Frame 9H GH desi$n heavy duty $as turbines are two pole $enerators and are directly connected to the turbines 6i.e., there is no reduction $ear between the turbine and the $enerator, and the $enerator is not connected to a 2free2 turbine which spins independently of the a&ial compressor of the turbine7, so that8s why the 100K speed ratin$ of the turbine is C000 RPB because the $rid the $enerator is connected to is a #0 -5 system 6nominally7. 6:ote there are no appro&imations in this formula, and note that speed and fre(uency are directly proportional. 0ncrease the speed of a synchronous $enerator and it8s fre(uency will increase4 decrease the fre(uency of a $rid to which a $enerator is connected and the $enerator speed will decrease proportionally4 speed and

fre(uency are directly related. +o, we8ve established that when a two pole 6synchronous7 $enerator is connected to a #0 -5 $rid with other $enerators that it will be operatin$ at C000 RPB 6: I 6120 J #07E2 I C000 RPB7, and when the prime mover 6the turbine7 is directly coupled to the $enerator that it, too, will spin at C000 RPB. *$ain, this is because the $enerator rotor is locked into the same speed 6in synchronism with7 the other $enerators at a speed that is dictated by the fre(uency of the $rid and the number of poles of the $enerator 6which never chan$es7, and the turbine shaft is directly connectedEcoupled to the $enerator rotor. Further, it is the nature of most *. $rids that there are so many $enerators, of various number of poles, so many all supplyin$ such a lar$e load that any one sin$le $enerator and its prime mover can8t usually have any appreciable effect on the fre(uency of all the other $enerators and the speeds of their prime movers 6unless the prime mover bein$ loaded or unloaded has a very lar$e power ratin$Ecapacity in relation to all the other $enerators and the load7. <hen a $enerator is accelerated to rated speed durin$ startin$ prior to synchroni5ation, the prime mover is producin$ 9ust enou$h tor(ue to keep the $enerator 6and turbine and compressor, in this case7 speed e(ual to the fre(uency of the $rid 6in this case, C000 RPB7. <hen the unit is synchroni5ed, the power 2output2 of the $enerator is very low, usually, because durin$ synchroni5ation the turbine speed 6and $enerator fre(uency7 is ad9usted to be 9ust sli$htly hi$her than a speed which would be e(ual to $rid fre(uency. 1his means that there is sli$htly more tor(ue bein$ produced by the turbine than is re(uired to keep the $enerator rotor spinnin$ at a fre(uency e(ual to $rid fre(uency. <hen the $enerator breaker is closed, the speed of the $enerator rotor, and the turbine and a&ial compressor, actually slows down. >es, that8s ri$ht4 the speed decreases because once the $enerator breaker closes the $enerator is then locked into synchronous speed which is a speed that is proportional to the $rid fre(uency of all the other $enerators it8s now operatin$ in parallel with. %urin$ synchroni5ation, the fuel flow rate, on the other hand, is held constant once the desired speed is achieved, which means that the tor(ue is bein$ held constant. %urin$ synchroni5ation, when the turbine 6and $enerator7 speed is increased to be 9ust sli$htly above $rid fre(uency there is more tor(ue bein$ produced than is re(uired to keep the rotor spinnin$ at a speed that is e(ual to $rid fre(uency. <hen the $enerator breaker closes and the $enerator speed slows down, which slows down the turbine, the tor(ue remains the same because the fuel was not chan$ed. 1hat e&tra tor(ue is converted into amps by the $enerator, and more amps e(uals more load. 1hat8s what a $enerator is" a device for convertin$ tor(ue into amps. 6* motor is a device for convertin$ amps into tor(ue. *ctually, the only difference between a motor and a $enerator is the 2direction2 of current and tor(ue flow into or out of the machine.7 1he basic formula for power 6<atts7 is" P I ) J 0, where P is power 6in <atts7, ) is $enerator terminal volta$e 6in )olts7, and 0 is armature current 6the alternatin$ current flowin$ in the stator of the $enerator7. 6For a three phase $enerator the entire formula is P

I )J 0 J 6CL60.#77 J PF, where, CL60.#7 is the s(uare root of three 6a fi&ed value, 1.MC2, 0 think7, and PF is the power factor of the $enerator 6which is a number never $reater than 1.0, and which we will presume to be 1.0 for the purposes of our discussion7. .oincidentally, the terminal volta$e of most synchronous $enerators is almost a fi&ed value, as well, and doesn8t usually vary by more than appro&imately NE #.0K, which on an 11,0000 )olt $enerator is only about ##0 )olts 6out of 11,0007. +o, since one of the terms of the three phase power formula JisJ a fi&ed value 6the s(uare root of three7, and we are presumin$ one of the terms 6PF7 to be fi&ed and e(ual to 1.0, and the $enerator terminal volta$e is, for all intents and purposes, a fi&ed value, the way that a $enerator produces more power is to increase the number of amps flowin$ in the stator. 1he way that amps are increased in the $enerator stator is by providin$ more tor(ue from the turbine into the $enerator4 more tor(ue e(uals more amps. ?ess tor(ue e(uals less amps. 6<e are presumin$ that the prime mover is always producin$ at least sufficient tor(ue to keep the $enerator rotor spinnin$ at synchronous speed. <hen it doesn8t, the $enerator actually becomes a motor and keeps spinnin$ at synchronous speed and draws current from other $enerators on the $rid. 1his is what8s known as 2reverse power2 or, 2motori5in$ the $enerator.2 0t8s JveryJ bad for steam turbines and reciprocatin$ en$ines even for very short periods of time4 not so in9urious for $as turbines for short periods of times, especially sin$le shaft $as turbines like GH desi$n heavy duty Frame 9H $as turbines.7 :ow some people are $oin$ to say that when a unit with a GH +peedtronic turbine control system is automatically synchroni5ed to the $rid that it loads up to 2+pinnin$ Reserve2, and they are correct. 1here is some lo$ic that, once the $enerator breaker is closed durin$ auto synch8in$, increases the amount of fuel bein$ put into the turbine which increases the tor(ue bein$ produced by the turbine and since the turbine speed can8t increase 6because it8s directly coupled to the 6synchronous7 $enerator which is now connected to the $rid and it8s speed is bein$ controlled by the fre(uency of the $rid to which it8s connected7 the e&tra tor(ue that8s bein$ produced by the addition of the fuel $ets converted into amps. +o, it should be clear that tor(ue, amps, and load are proportional to each other. *n increase in fuel results in an increase in tor(ue which results in an increase in load4 a decrease in tor(ue results in a decrease in amps which results in a decrease in load. :ow. for a GH desi$n heavy duty $as turbine to be operated in parallel with other $enerators on a $rid, it is operated in %roop speed control mode. 1his is one of two $overnin$ modes for most prime movers 60sochronous bein$ the other one7 and is the mode that allows the turbine and $enerator to smoothly and stably participate in powerin$ a lar$e load while paralleled with other $enerators. 6+ome people refer to this as 2sharin$ load2, and while that8s technically correct the same term is also used in another description of %roop speed control and this double usa$e causes lots of problems for most people. +o, we8re $oin$ to refer %roop speed control mode as the $overnor 6control system7 mode that allows the stable and smooth production of power by a prime mover and $enerator when connected to a $rid with other $enerators.7

<e discussed what happens durin$ synchroni5ation, when the turbine speed is increased to make the $enerator fre(uency 9ust sli$htly hi$her than the $rid fre(uency 6this is $enerally referred to as speed matchin$7. *nd to increase the speed re(uires an increase in tor(ue, which comes from increasin$ the fuel flow rate to the turbine. <hen the $enerator breaker is closed, the turbine speed can8t chan$e and any attempt to increase the turbine speed will 9ust cause additional tor(ue to be produced, and the $enerator converts the tor(ue to amps, which becomes load. <hen a GH desi$n heavy duty $as turbine with a +peedtronic turbine control panel is bein$ operated in %roop speed control mode, and the operator wants to raise or lower the load, what happens is that the turbine speed reference is increased or decreased, which causes the fuel flow rate to be increased or decreased, in an attempt to make the actual turbine speed increase or decrease by increasin$ or decreasin$ the amount of tor(ue bein$ produced by the turbine. ;ut, since the actual turbine speed can8t increase or decrease, any tor(ue increase results in an increase in amps which results in an increase in load, and any tor(ue decrease results in a decrease in amps which results in a decrease in load. +o, when an operator clicks on Raise +pdE?d or increases the Pre +elected ?oad +etpoint when the unit is bein$ operated in Pre +elected ?oad .ontrol, what8s really happenin$ is that the turbine speed reference is increasin$, which results in more fuel bein$ admitted to the turbine, which results in e&tra tor(ue which can8t result in increased speed so the $enerator converts the tor(ue to amps, which results in an increase in load. *nd all $ood $enerators do as commanded, especially when it8s at the behest of a Bark ) +peedtronic turbine control system. Reply to this post... Posted by Bikas on 12 *u$ust, 200! 10"C/ pm 1hat is $reat e&planation .+*. 08d like to e&tend this story on steam turbines. 0 believe that basic lo$ic is the same" what is fuel with $as turbines, that is steam with steam turbines. 0f $enerator8s circuit breaker is open, then more steam supplied to the turbine will cause turbine to rotate faster, but after immediately after synchroni5ation, more steam will produce more tor(ue and because, speed is constant, there will be more amps and hence, more power output to the $rid. -owever, there are some thin$s that are not clear to me. Generator8s output power can be increased by addin$ more steam to the turbine, say, by openin$ turbine8s control valves 60 assume turbine has only hi$h pressure and low pressure sta$e7. 0 think that turbine can increase its tor(ue also by not openin$ control valves, but increasin$ steam pressure which is e(uivalent. 0 wonder what approach is used more fre(uently. 0 also believe it has a lot of in common with so called 2e&ploatation concept2 6turbine or boiler leadin$7.

0n turbine leadin$ mode, turbine8s controller is controllin$ power output by ad9ustin$ control valves. 1hat, inevitably, leads to steam8s pressure chan$in$. 0n such case, boiler controller is increasin$ or decreasin$ coal feeders speed. Bore speed means more coal in the boiler. Bore coal in the boiler means more heat, more heat means hi$her pressure 6or more steam=,=7. *m 0 on the ri$ht track, 1hanks. Reply to this post... Posted by electrics on 12 June, 2009 2"0# pm -ello, 0 ponder on this issue for a lon$ time, there are a few (uestions if you allow me to ask sir. now, if we increase the load of a syn. $enerator while opeatin$ under normal conditions and doesn8t increase the fuel so what happens, i think if we don8t increase the fuel any so the $enerator will be$in to slow and it will stop till the kinetic ener$y of the primemover and alternator is consumed totally and the $enerator will have so bi$ currents true, but this is 9ust a amateurish $uess pls tell me what happens if fre(uency controller doesnt intervene with the load incrase, in theory now the load is not e(ual the power bein$ produced so what happens, this is my first (uestion. my second (uestion is, they always say that the $enerator speed $ets slower if load increases, so this is a matter rea$rdin$ fre(uency controller or the nature of a sync. $enerator, 21he mechanical source of power for the $enerator is a prime mover such as diesel en$ines or steam, $as, water, and wind turbines. *ll prime movers behave in a similar fashion. *s the power drawn from them increases, the rotational speed decreases. 0n $eneral, this decrease in speed is nonlinear. -owever, the $overnor makes this decrease in speed linear with increasin$ power demand.2 for e&ample this is a passa$e from a book, so pls tell me how can a sync. $en can $et slower as load increases, what makes it to slow down, 0 also wanna ask you as third (uestion, a diesel $enerator has a sli$htly hi$her fre(uency than #0 h5 while workin$ no load true, so does it make difference between workin$ alone and workin$ in synchronisation with an infinite $rid, if true why need to be a bit hi$her than #0 , pls en$lihten me sir... Reply to this post... Posted by HnricO1$n on 12 *u$ust, 200! 2"CD am

0n essence, you are increasin$ the tor(ue applied on the $enerator shaft 6power, but speed is constant7 *nd this increases the an$le between Ho 6induced volta$e in stator7 and the volta$e at output terminals 6theoretical A and f, constants, and connected to an infinite power net7. 1his an$le is tor(ue dependant 6called tor(ue an$le7 more an$le P more power delivered P more power drained from drivin$ machine. 0f the $enerator is workin$ as a motor, this an$le is ne$ative. 0f the machine is under no load condition 6open circuit7 this an$le is 0. Reply to this post... Posted by QushwahaOrOk on 2M 3ctober, 200! D"12 pm 0t8s true that more fuel to prime mover increases the tor(ue, which increases the load an$le in the $enerator. 0t8s also true that ma$netic field stren$th of rotor increases as load an$le increases, which causes to increase the current throu$h stator windin$s thus the B<. ;ut what causes the rotor current to increase, i.e. e&citation current to increase, Reply to this post... Posted by .+* on 2! 3ctober, 200! #"21 am Rotor field stren$th is a function of e&citation current from the synchronous $enerator e&citer, sometimes referred to as the 2*)R2 6*utomatic )olta$e Re$ulator7. 1he *)R, when operatin$ in automatic mode, is attemptin$ to keep the $enerator terminal volta$e e(ual to the $enerator terminal volta$e setpoint by varyin$ the e&citation current applied to the $enerator rotor which is directly proportional to the rotor field stren$th. *s the current in the stator windin$s increases, the tendency is for the $enerator terminal volta$e to decrease 6because of what8s called 2armature reaction27, but the *)R will increase the e&citation current which increases rotor field stren$th which overcomes armature reaction to keep the $enerator terminal volta$e constant. +o, 0 take e&ception to your statement that it8s true 2that ma$netic field stren$th of rotor increases as load an$le increases, which causes to increase the current throu$h stator windin$s thus the B<2. 3ne cannot appreciably chan$e the load 6B<7 of a synchronous $enerator by chan$in$ the rotor field stren$th4 it8s done by chan$in$ the tor(ue bein$ applied to the $enerator. 1he increase in rotor field stren$th is the JresultJ of increased stator amps which are tendin$ to decrease $enerator terminal volta$e, not the cause of increased stator amps. 0f the stator amps are increased 6by increasin$ the tor(ue applied to the $enerator rotor7 and nothin$ was done to chan$e the rotor field stren$th the $enerator terminal volta$e would decrease and the reactive power output of the $enerator would chan$e. Remember the formula for the power produced by a three phase synchronous $enerator" P I ) J 0 J 6CL60.#7 J PF. ?ook at the ratin$ of the $enerator8s terminal volta$e4 it8s usually plus or minus #K of some nominal value, say 11 Q), or 1C.! Q). +o, about the ma&imum effect one can have on the output of the $enerator with the rotor field stren$th is to chan$e it by plus or minus #K, which is very little, and that8s only under theoretically ideal conditions.

+o, one does not usually chan$e the load 6B<7 of a synchronous $enerator by chan$in$ rotor field stren$th4 that8s done by chan$in$ the amount of tor(ue bein$ applied to the $enerator rotor. 0f the tor(ue is increased, the amperes flowin$ in the $enerator stator windin$s increase, which increases the armature reaction which tends to decrease the $enerator terminal volta$e. +o, to maintain $enerator terminal volta$e, the e&citer re$ulator output is increased which causes more rotor field stren$th. 0f you really want to understand armature reaction, you can send your name, the name of the company you are employed by 6or he8ll probably take the name of your school if you8re a student7, and your email address to cepsiconRaol.com and re(uest a copy of his armature reaction document. Reply to this post... Posted by ssv on C1 Barch, 2010 10"11 am <hile increasin$ fuel flow, tor(ue will increase, which in turn will increase tor(ue an$le and which in turn will increase more current at the stator and so B< which in turn will increase armature reaction and which in turn will increase rotor field current to maintain the terminal volta$e. *ll this is clear. :ow my confusion is as follows" *s we know that 1or(ue I Force J an$ular displacement. :ow for increasin$ load we 9ust increase fuel to the turbine so as to $et more tor(ue. ;ut my (uestion is we don8t have the an$ular displacement of the rotor because the rotor speed is locked once it is on $rid, so as per above e(uation the 1or(ue would be 5ero because a$ain the speed is fi&ed. +o -ow we are increasin$ the 1or(ue by increasin$ fuel , to $et our desired B<. <hat is the mechanism happenin$ which is causin$ 1or(ue to become more , even while an$ular displacement is 5ero. Please don8t tell me that tor(ue is increased due to increase in fuel. By (uery is <-> as per above e&planation. ;est Re$ards ++) Reply to this post... Posted by .+* on C1 Barch, 2010 1"29 pm <hen the $enerator rotor is locked in synchronous speed with other $enerators on a lar$e $rid it is effectively a 2brake2 preventin$ any increase in speed which would normally be the result of an increase in fuel. <hen a $enerator is bein$ synchroni5ed with a $rid, it is usually done so with the $enerator rotor spinnin$ sli$htly faster than synchronous speed 6the synch scope is

rotatin$ clock wise in the Fast direction7. <hen the $enerator breaker is closed the speed of the $enerator rotor 6and the turbine7 slow down to synchronous speed, even thou$h the fuel is held constant. 1his results in a 2positive2 power output of the $enerator. 1he 2e&tra2 speed 6tor(ue7 that was causin$ the $enerator rotor to spin faster than synchronous speed before the $enerator breaker was closed is converted to amperes in the $enerator when the rotor speed is reduced to synchronous speed. 60f the synchroscope were held stationary at the 12 o8clock position and the $enerator breaker were closed, there would be 5ero power output from the $enerator, because the turbine is spinnin$ the $enerator rotor at synchronous speed.7 *nother way to think of it is that the turbine buckets are at a fi&ed distance from the turbine shaft. -ot $ases impin$in$ on the turbine buckets develop tor(ue 6force & distance, ri$ht,7. 0ncreasin$ the temperature of the hot $ases increases the force and therefore the 6force & distance7 and therefore the tor(ue. ;ut, the $enerator rotor, because it8s locked into synchronous speed with the $rid, can8t be spun any faster even thou$h the turbine rotor is 2twistin$2 the load couplin$ shaft harder because of the increased tor(ue. 1hat8s the tor(ue an$le, the increased twist bein$ applied to try to spin the $enerator rotor faster than synchronous speed. *$ain, tor(ue is force & distance. 0f the distance is fi&ed, then increasin$ the force 6by increasin$ the fuel7 will increase the tor(ue. 0f a turbine $enerator is producin$ power at say, 2#K of rated output, and suddenly the $enerator breaker were opened but the fuel wasn8t reduced, then the turbine shaft and $enerator rotor speed would increase very fast, and the unit would probably overspeed. 1hat8s because the amount of fuel bein$ burned to produce the force on the turbine buckets is much more than is re(uired to keep the $enerator rotor spinnin$ at synchronous speed. Please have a look at the www.wikipedia.or$ definition of 1or(ue, specifically the section titled 8Relationship between tor(ue, power and ener$y8. :ote, that the physical and mechanical en$ineerin$ definitions of tor(ue can be different. <hen additional tor(ue is applied throu$h the load couplin$ between a turbine and a $enerator, the couplin$ is 2twisted2 and the chan$e in an$ular displacement can actually be measured. *lso, there is a chan$e in the relationships of the ma$netic fields in the $enerator 6the rotor field and the stator field6s77, an an$ular displacement. +o, there is an$ular displacement. Reply to this post... Posted by ++) on # *pril, 2010 1"0M am 1hanks for the prompt reply.

;est Re$ards ++) Reply to this post... Posted by ;ruce %urdle on C1 Barch, 2010 C"0# pm By basic mechanics te&t says that tor(ue I Force & radius of action. *nd increasin$ drive tor(ue will increase the an$ular displacement by which the rotor field leads the stator field up to 90 de$rees or so. ;ruce. Reply to this post... Posted by Jesus +antos on 12 *u$ust, 200! 2"C/ am <hat is rated to 120B<, the turbine or $enerator, Reply to this post... Posted by Phil .orso on / *pril, 2010 11"2D pm Qumarash... *ll answers thus far presume your $enerator is connected to a Grid. 0s that the case, Re$ards, Phil .orso Reply to this post... Posted by Baint on 1! *pril, 2010 9"#! am need to clarify one thin$ with Generator mode 0sochronous and %roop, the RaiseElower speed after synchroni5in$ which chan$e with mode of turbine , that mean F+R how control in 0sochE%roop , which chan$e actual in both mode , Reply to this post... Posted by .+* on 1! *pril, 2010 11"0C pm 1he Raise and ?ower +peedE?oad switches chan$e the 1urbine +peed Reference 61:R7 regardless of whether or not the unit is operatin$ in 0sochronous or %roop +peed .ontrol modes. <hen in 0sochronous mode, chan$in$ the turbine speed reference will chan$e the fre(uency at which the unit is operatin$. :ot the load, the fre(uency. <hen in %roop mode, chan$in$ the turbine speed reference will chan$e the power output of the unit. :ot the fre(uency, the load. 0sochronous mode is proportional plus inte$ral control. %roop mode is proportional control. 3ther than this, 0 don8t understand the (uestion.

Reply to this post... Posted by Gre$ : on 29 June, 2010 !"DC pm 0 have the same (uestion, but what if the $enerator is only rated for 100B<, By (uestion is" 0f the prime mover can produce 120B< of power, but the $enerator is rated at 100B<, how will the $enerator react when if the prime mover is puttin$ out 120B< of power, Reply to this post... Posted by .+* on 29 June, 2010 11"#1 pm 0f the $enerator ratin$ is lower than that of the prime mover, then there should be some kind of load limitin$ function to prevent the prime mover from puttin$ out more tor(ue than the $enerator can convert into amps. <hen current flows in a conductor, heat is $enerated. 1he ability of the $enerator stator 6and rotor7 to be cooled to prevent dama$e to insulation and from e&pansion 6thin$s usually e&pand when they $et hot, and they $et hot when current flows7 is one of the limits of $enerator operation. 0f the prime mover is producin$ more tor(ue than the $enerator can safely convert to amps, then there will be too much heat in the $enerator and eventually somethin$ will fail, usually the insulation. 1here8s also the couplin$ between the prime mover and the $enerator which must be considered. 1here are limits to the amount of tor(ue couplin$s can transmit, and the load couplin$, as it8s called, must be capable of transmittin$ 2rated2 tor(ue to the $enerator. Asually the load couplin$ 6and the $enerator7 are rated sli$htly hi$her than the prime mover. ;ut, if there are no other e&tenuatin$ circumstances or miti$atin$ factors which we are unaware of, strictly speakin$ the prime mover output should somehow be limited from producin$ more power than the $enerator is rated for in this (uestion. 0f the prime mover output is not limited and it e&ceeds the ratin$ of the $enerator, the $enerator will continue to produce power until it overheats and fails 6presumin$ the load couplin$ is capable of transmittin$ the hi$h tor(ue, also7. Reply to this post... >our use of this site is sub9ect to the terms and conditions set forth under ?e$al :otices and the Privacy Policy. Please read those terms and conditions carefully. +ub9ect to the ri$hts e&pressly reserved to others under ?e$al :otices, the content of this site and the compilation thereof is @ 1999 2010 :erds in .ontrol, ??.. *ll ri$hts reserved.

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