Transcript of the Testimony of Morris Glaze

Date: November 14, 2013 Volume: I Case: In Re: Joplin Critical Investigation

Printed On: November 27, 2013

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Morris Glaze

In Re:

Joplin Critical Investigation

Page 1

IN RE:

JOPLIN CRITICAL INVESTIGATION

SWORN STATEMENT OF

MORRIS GLAZE

Taken on Thursday, November 14, 2013, from 3:01 p.m. to 3:24 p.m., at the law offices of Juddson H. McPherson, LLC, 626 S. Byers, in the City of Joplin, County of Jasper, State of Missouri, before SHARON K. ROGERS, C.C.R.650, a Certified Court Reporter and a Notary Public within and for the County of Jasper, and State of Missouri.

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Morris Glaze

In Re:

Joplin Critical Investigation

Page 2

APPEARANCES

MR. THOMAS E. LORAINE Loraine & Associates, LLC 4075 Osage Beach Pkwy., Suite 300 Osage Beach, MO 65065

tellaw@loraineandassociates.com

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S T I P U L A T I O N

IT IS HEREBY STIPULATED AND AGREED that this Sworn Statement may be taken by steno-mask type recording by SHARON K. ROGERS, a Certified Court Reporter, and afterwards reduced into typewriting. It is further stipulated that the signature of the witness is hereby waived, and that said Sworn Statement of said witness shall be of the same force and effect as though said witness had read and signed Sworn Statement.

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Page 4 I N D E X Page/Line DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. LORAINE . . . 5-4

E X H I B I T S

Exhibit #A.

7-3

Advice of Rights

Exhibit #25

11-8

7/18/13 memo

Note:

Exhibits in separate binder

(sic) - typed as spoken (ph.) - phonetic

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Morris Glaze

In Re:

Joplin Critical Investigation

Page 5 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. A. Q. MORRIS GLAZE Having been first duly sworn and examined, testified as follows: DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. LORAINE: Q. Mr. Glaze, I'm going to tell you, you're not an employee of the City and I'm asked to talk to unfortunately you guys as well as the employees of the City. If you were an

employee of the City I would ask you to sign one of these. For consistency everybody else You don't have to,

has agreed to do this.

but this is an Advice of Rights that the City people are looking at, and since you're a member you probably ought to see it any way. So if you would read it over and if you feel comfortable sign it, and we'll go from there. I'll have to read it to you, also, because it says I'm going to. Okay, I understand it. What this basically is, the City can only know what its employees know. The City as an

entity has no collective brain except for the people that work for it, okay? All right. So when we talk about City people we want

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Joplin Critical Investigation

Page 6 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. A. Q. them to tell us the truth, we want them to tell us even if the truth gets them in trouble with us on a hiring and firing basis, or if they don't want to tell us the truth then we can go back to you as a City Council member and say, you know, this guy wouldn't tell us anything and it's necessary for him to talk and can you make him talk. And I can

make him talk if you give me that authority. And if they don't talk then you fire them, you know. Sure. So it is a pretty serious way to get results. However, if they say something when you're talking to them that might be criminal in the City we can't use that against them because we're forcing them under penalty of their job to tell us. And it's a method that's been

authorized by the Supreme Court of the United States on municipal entities and the fire districts and the water districts, everything like that, and therefore we're trying to use that so that's what it is and what it is, okay? Okay.

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Page 7 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. A. Q. Q. So if you would execute that for me I'd appreciate it. (Witness complies) (Exhibit #A)

And I feel that since you guys have given me the credibility to your investigation you ought to all know what we're doing with the City employees. Yes. Mr. Glaze, I can't tell you how much I appreciate you coming in and meeting you. There are three matters, and I know you know that because you saw my contract, but I'm going to point them out to you. There are Does that make sense?

three matters under investigation plus any collateral matters that do arise. The first

matter, and for brevity sake I don't know if it's proper order or not, but the first matter is did somebody steal something off of City Manager Rohr's desk, and it's a note, was that done and if so who did it. one of the issues. That was

The second issue was did

Mr. Scearce violate some City or ethical duties when he either knew or should have known about for better words a bookie operation being run in one of his rental

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Page 8 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 units. Adding collateral to that did his

subsequent statements or nonstatements, was there anything unethical about them and when I guess the City or the Joplin newspaper, whoever wanted to know that information, was that unethical. And the third matter, really

the big matter, three big matters, the third big matter was did Mr. Woolston violate any ethical considerations being a real estate agent and allegedly mixing real estate business with City business. Those are the

three main areas and the collateral areas that come off of that. That's what I was And I hope

asked by contract to investigate. that's what I'm doing. I think I'm doing.

That's certainly what

So to that extent is

there anything about any of those matters that we talked about or anything else that needs to be discussed with you and me on a one-on-one basis and do you have other people that I should talk to that might have more information than you yourself? For example,

you might know hearsay, but not know the truth. You might know a rumor, but not know But I'm asking you who

whether it's valid.

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Page 9 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. Q. A. Q. A. A. told you the rumor, should I talk with them, and try to follow these lines back to the sources so that we can hopefully get to the bottom of what you want to know, all right? Right. I've got a collateral situation I can

talk to you about. Okay. Let's talk about it.

I was approached by a citizen back in the earlier part of this year, about May or April, that they allege that Mr. Golden and Mr. Scearce were representing the Elks Lodge in the land purchase that Wallace-Bajjali was doing for the senior care facility at 26th and Maiden Lane. Golden and Scearce were representing -The Elks Club who owned the property that Wallace-Bajjali was wanting to buy for the senior care facility. Now that's what

citizen told me, and that citizen's name is Gary Box. G-A-R-Y Box. I've heard his name somewhere.

What does he do? He is actually now a representative for Wallace-Bajjali. But he told me that there's

another citizen that he would divulge if he

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Page 10 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Q. A. was spoken to that would confirm this allegation that Mr. Golden and Mr. Scearce actually jacked the price up on the property that Wallace-Bajjali bought from the Elks Club. Golden and Scearce? Yes, and I took this rumor to the City Attorney. He interviewed both Councilmen.

They both denied it and that's as far as it went. But this is a confidential

correspondence between the City Attorney and myself that says privileged and confidential on it. In that memo he uses Gary Box's name,

but he never interviewed Gary Box. The general counsel? Yes. May I see that? Am I going to be in trouble? For showing me that? Yes. You're my boss. Are you going to make you No.

get you in trouble for showing you that? There again it's privilege -By the City.

Well, you authorized me to look

into these matters.

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In Re:

Joplin Critical Investigation

Page 11 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. A. Q. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. There you go. I just want to make sure

everything is on the table here. It's on the table. Let's mark it. We'll

make it on the table.

I guarantee you I plan Sir, I'm

on getting to the bottom of this.

handing you, and I haven't looked at it yet, but I'm handing you what you've given me as Exhibit #25 and I'm going to for the record ask you is this the document that you just handed me that was a privileged communication between the City Attorney Brian Head and yourself due to the investigation you just talked to me about? Yes, and I believe there was distribution on it to the Mayor, also. And no one else? Not that I know of. So the City Manager or nobody else would be involved? No, sir. May I read this, sir? Yes. Thank you. Am I to understand from this, Mr.

Glaze, that the two members in question, Mr. Scearce and Mr. Golden, were in fact, members

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Page 12 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. A. Q. A. A. Q. Q. A. Q. A. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. of this lodge? Yes, they are. For example, is Mr. Wallace also a member of the lodge? Not that I know of. Are you a member of the lodge? No. Are any of the other Council members members of this lodge, if you know? I don't know. Is the City Attorney a member of the lodge? I don't know that. I don't think so. Mr.

Box is a member of the Elks. Okay. Mr. Box is a member of the Elks and

they didn't want to deal with Mr. Box they're saying? That's what Mr. Scearce says. Did Mr. Box indicate that he never heard that he wasn't to deal with anybody at the lodge? I don't know, we never discussed that. So I need to talk to Box? Yes, and Mr. Box would give up another witness. How do I get hold of Mr. Box? I've got his cell number. Do you want it?

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Page 13 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. A. Q. Q. A. Q. That would work if you'd give it to me. Sure. I tell you what, give it to me and then do me one favor, and call him and introduce who I am, I'll give you one of my cards, and just say I'll be calling him, if you would do that. Sure. Because otherwise he's not going to talk because nobody will. Do you want his number now? Yes, give me that number. It's 417-434-3351, and his work number is 417-208-5096. That's Mr. Box? Yes, did you want me to call him now? You don't have to. When you get out of here.

Just mention my name and that I'll be probably chatting with him, and maybe not today but some time in the next couple of weeks. I probably will try to get him today,

if I can. Sure. Just let him know who I am and that it's okay, you would like me to talk to him, so

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In Re:

Joplin Critical Investigation

Page 14 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. A. Q. maybe that will ease him, okay? Yeah, we've already pretalked about this. Good. I appreciate that. I appreciate that.

Now is there anything else we should talk about concerning those three items or any collateral manner? The reason I always say

collateral matter is because this would have not been picked up -Yeah, you know, the only thing about Scearce's gambling is all the rumors I heard when I was running for office in 2012. And what were those that I need to know about? I don't even remember who told me, but they just said, you know, there's an FBI probe on Scearce on gambling, and that's all I know. And people told me that I should bring that out to the public and I said, well, I don't know anything that's true here. I'm not

going to use that in a campaign, you know. That's a good way to get sued. Sure. Public figures, you guys as public figures, and I've done a lot of work in this, as public figures people can say pretty much

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In Re:

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Page 15 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. A. Q. A. Q. A. A. Q. A. Q. whatever they want to say about you according to the New York Times case, but if they know that it's not true and then they say it that's called actual malice and that's when you get in trouble. Sure. If they don't know anything about it they shouldn't say anything either. That's my position. And I think you followed a good position and I'd be careful with that issue. Yes. Just as a tidbit. I mean there was five of us running for three seats. I won, Bill won.

It's not as if that issue is not before the public anyway at this point, the newspaper has done a pretty good job of that. read it. Anything else? I've

You mentioned about Mr. Woolston, you know, I'm friends with Mr. Woolston since I've been on the Council and he -Are you social friends with him? No, I mean we drink coffee occasionally and we've played golf before, but we're business

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In Re:

Joplin Critical Investigation

Page 16 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. A. Q. Q. A. Q. friends. But I said to him, I said, you've

abstained a lot on these real estate transactions. said he was. Are you okay with that? I wasn't counseling him or He

anything, I just wanted to make sure that everything was on top of the table about all these real estate transactions he's involved in. I also have talked to him about that so we'll see. Because there's a perception. I think this

would be hard for him to overcome in the community. I understand what you're saying. I tell you

it's so hard to be - if I was a lawyer on the board, you know, and I was doing something with the City from a legal standpoint either pro or against you all of a sudden you're heading your head, you know, and when does it quit? stop. Sure. So I know what you're saying. I'm trying to When does it feel good? When you

figure out on the Scearce rumors -They came from everywhere, and I don't

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Page 17 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. A. Q. remember any particular person. were so rampant. I guess political people being political people that get voted for I suspect these will reflect in both of these guy's elections, or already have. Well, you know, Bill got through the election okay. He got the majority vote. I mean they

With this stuff? Yeah, but it wasn't made public. I mean it I'd I

was just a rumor mill going around.

think he'd have a tough time now running. think Mr. Woolston is going to have a tough time in April. Who is Mr. Wilson? Mr. Woolston. Oh, Woolston.

I think he's going to have a tough time, and Scearce, I don't think he's going to run again. He matures out 2016 as well as I.

I'm not going to run again. Not having enough fun? Well, that will give me ten years and I'll be 65 and it should be younger people. I should

open my seat up to younger people is my

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Page 18 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. A. A. Q. Q. A. Q. opinion. Well, we old guys still have a little bit of life in us. We have a little bit of life in us, but I want to do some other things, too. plenty of volunteer work. There is that. I should know? No, off the top of my head -The catch all question is there anything else I should know? You know what I'm Anything else that you think There's

investigating and you know why I'm investigating it, and I think if there's something else, I mean this perception that you gave me, I had not heard about that. This is the first time I've seen this so I appreciate this. To me this is interesting.

I mean if the FBI thing were real and if it was real and if it was indicted then it would be interesting, but it's less interesting, you know, the secret memo deal, I've already disposed of that. Oh, have you? Yes, it's not there. It's not there.

Last time Bill told me it was found and he

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Page 19 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. Q. Q. A. A. Q. said that it will come out who found it, and I said, Bill, somebody is going to get fired over this or somebody is going to be totally upset like Mr. Rohr. Yeah, Mark was pretty adamant about it. did talk with him about it, also. been stolen. you know. I

It's not

I'm telling you that so that

Please don't discuss what we talk

about today with anybody until I get my report out. Sure. But in business that's your desk. And what's on it is not mine.

It's not mine.

No, and nobody should have access to it. Mr. Rohr told Mr. Seibert in a briefing that somebody had taken it off his desk. He also told me that and yet he couldn't tell me why that was. But I know where it came Do

from so I will be reporting that to you. you want to see the note, the famous note? Yeah.

(Short break taken 3:20 to 3:24 p.m., back on record) (By Mr. Loraine) talking to me. Thanks for coming in and I'm pleased to help you and

your city and I hope that my investigation

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Page 20 1 2 3 4 5 (SWORN STATEMENT CONCLUDED) A. will be complete enough to do that. Thank you very much.

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REPORTER'S CERTIFICATE

STATE OF MISSOURI ss: COUNTY OF JASPER I, SHARON K. ROGERS, Certified Court Reporter in the State of Missouri, do certify that pursuant to the foregoing Stipulation the witness came before me on the 14th day of November, 2013, was duly sworn by me, and was examined. That examination was then taken by me by

steno-mask recording and afterwards transcribed; said Sworn Statement is subscribed by the witness as hereinbefore set out on the day in that behalf aforesaid and is herewith returned. I further certify that I am not counsel, attorney, or relative of either party, or clerk, or stenographer of either party or of the attorney of either party, or otherwise interested in the event of this suit.

_________________________ SHARON K. ROGERS, CCR-650

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