Part 1 of Deposition of George Miller for Klayman-v-Judicial-Watch-FLSD-1-13-cv-20610
Due to technical difficulties, I cut and pasted the text from PACER-generated pdf to Word.
Part 1 of Deposition of George Miller for Klayman-v-Judicial-Watch-FLSD-1-13-cv-20610
Due to technical difficulties, I cut and pasted the text from PACER-generated pdf to Word.
Part 1 of Deposition of George Miller for Klayman-v-Judicial-Watch-FLSD-1-13-cv-20610
Due to technical difficulties, I cut and pasted the text from PACER-generated pdf to Word.
Case 1:13-cv-20610-CMA Document 127-1 Entered on FLSD Docket 05/27/2014 Page
1 of 243 In The Matter Of: LARRY E. KLAYMAN v. JUDICIAL WATCH, INC. ___________________________________________________ GEORGE MILLER Vol. 1 May 23, 2014 ___________________________________________________ Case 1:13-cv-20610-CMA Document 127-1 Entered on FLSD Docket 05/27/2014 Page 2 of 243 GEORGE MILLER - 5/23/2014 1-800-325-3376 www.merrillcorp.com/law Merrill Corporation - New York Page 1 UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF FLORIDA LARRY E. KLAYMAN, ) ) Plaintiff, ) ) -vs- ) CASE NO. ) 13-20610-CIVJUDICIAL WATCH, INC., ) ALTONAGA/Simonton ) Defendant. ) _________________________________) DEPOSITION OF GEORGE MILLER FRIDAY, MAY 23, 2014 7:40 a.m. REPORTED BY: ERIKA SJOQUIST, C.S.R., R.P.R., C.R.R. C.S.R. No. 12350 Case 1:13-cv-20610-CMA Document 127-1 Entered on FLSD Docket 05/27/2014 Page 3 of 243 GEORGE MILLER - 5/23/2014 1-800-325-3376 www.merrillcorp.com/law Merrill Corporation - New York Page 2 1 DEPOSITION OF GEORGE MILLER, VOLUME 1, TAKEN AT 7:40 2 A.M., FRIDAY, MAY 23, 2014, AT 5700 RALSTON, SUITE 100, 3 VENTURA, CALIFORNIA, BEFORE ERIKA A. SJOQUIST, C.S.R., 4 R.P.R., C.R.R., C.S.R. NO. 12350, CERTIFIED SHORTHAND 5 REPORTER, IN AND FOR THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA. 6 7 8 APPEARANCES OF COUNSEL: 9 FOR THE PLAINTIFF: 10 LARRY KLAYMAN, ESQ. 11 ATTORNEY AT LAW IN PRO PER 12 2520 CORAL WAY, SUITE 2027 MIAMI, FLORIDA 33145 13 310-595-0800 LEKLAYMAN@GMAIL.COM 14 (VIA VIDEO CONFERENCING) 15 ALSO PRESENT: DINA JAMES, PARALEGAL TO MR. KLAYMAN 16 (VIA VIDEO CONFERENCING) 17 FOR THE DEFENDANT: 18 SCHWED KAHLE & KRESS, P.A. 19 DOUGLAS J. KRESS ATTORNEY AT LAW 20 11410 NORTH JOG ROAD, SUITE 100 PALM BEACH GARDENS, FLORIDA 33418 21 561-694-0700 DKRESS@SCHWEDPA.COM 22 (VIA VIDEO CONFERENCING) 23 24 25 Case 1:13-cv-20610-CMA Document 127-1 Entered on FLSD Docket 05/27/2014 Page 4 of 243 GEORGE MILLER - 5/23/2014 1-800-325-3376 www.merrillcorp.com/law Merrill Corporation - New York Page 3 1 I N D E X 2 DEPONENT EXAMINATION PAGE 3 GEORGE MILLER (MR. KRESS) 5, 135 (MR. KLAYMAN) 128 4 5 6 7 E X H I B I T S 8 NO. PAGE DESCRIPTION 9 Exhibit 1 95 Cuyahoga County Court of Common Pleas Criminal Court Division, 10 True Bill Indictment for Criminal Nonsupport - F5 11 State of Ohio vs. Larry Klayman 12 Exhibit 2 82 Cuyahoga County Prosecutor web page - Press Release -- 2/3/12 13 Exhibit 3 95 Court of Common Pleas Division of 14 Domestic Relations Cuyahoga County, Ohio, Case No. DR07 15 316840, Judgment Entry Re: 7/28/2009 16 Exhibit 4 96 Court of Common Pleas Division of 17 Domestic Relations Cuyahoga County, Ohio, Case No. DR07 18 316840, Judgment Entry Re: 7/2/2010 19 Exhibit 5 102 Case No. DR07 316840, 2/22/2010 20 Capias Ordered for Plaintiff Larry Elliot Klayman 21 Exhibit 6 24 2/8/2012 e-mail from Larry 22 Klayman to George J. Miller, re: Retention Agreement with Klayman 23 Law Firm 24 Exhibit 7 40 5/7/2012 e-mail string between George Miller and Larry Klayman 25 Re: Voeltz vs. Obama, et al - Case 1:13-cv-20610-CMA Document 127-1 Entered on FLSD Docket 05/27/2014 Page 5 of 243 GEORGE MILLER - 5/23/2014 1-800-325-3376 www.merrillcorp.com/law Merrill Corporation - New York Page 4 1 Exhibit 8 37 7/23/12 Klayman Law Firm Billing Statement 2 Exhibit 9 43 9/12/12 e-mail from Larry Klayman 3 to George Miller, re: Retention Agreement with Klayman Law Firm 4 Exhibit 10 5 Conwebwatch web page - "Larry 5 Klayman, Failed Lawyer" - 8/10/12 6 Exhibit 11 5 The Nation web page - "Klayman Watch" - 7/10/07 7 Exhibit 12 5 Miami New Times web page - "Larry 8 Klayman, Conservative Wingnut Lawyer, Gets Reprimanded By 9 Florida Bar, Is Broke" - 11/1/11 10 Exhibit 13 5 Renew America web page - "The good virgin's birther case" - 11 12/8/12 12 Exhibit 14 47 Orly Taitz, Esquire web page - "My yesterday's presentation to 13 CCIR and update on article2SuperPAC-Larry Klayman 14 $25,000 fundraising for non-existent law suit affair" - 15 2/23/2012 16 Exhibit 15 104 Orly Taitz, Esquire web page - "Clarification regarding 17 article2legal fund and Larry Klayman" - 2/26/2012 18 19 20 INSTRUCTION NOT TO ANSWER: 15:20, 16:17, 19:20, 20:2, 20:9, 83:17, 87:17, 87:24 21 22 23 24 25 Case 1:13-cv-20610-CMA Document 127-1 Entered on FLSD Docket 05/27/2014 Page 6 of 243 GEORGE MILLER - 5/23/2014 1-800-325-3376 www.merrillcorp.com/law Merrill Corporation - New York Page 5 1 VENTURA, CALIFORNIA 2 FRIDAY, MAY 23, 2014 3 7:40 a.m. 4 5 6 (Exhibits 1 - 15 premarked before deposition.) 7 8 GEORGE MILLER, 9 HAVING BEEN FIRST DULY SWORN BY THE REPORTER, WAS 10 EXAMINED AND TESTIFIED AS FOLLOWS: 11 12 DIRECT EXAMINATION 13 14 BY MR. KRESS: 15 Q Good morning, Mr. Miller. 16 A Good morning. 17 Q My name is Doug Kress, and we met via video 18 conference just a few minutes ago. I represent Judicial 19 Watch in a lawsuit filed by Larry Klayman. And this 20 morning, I'm going to take your deposition. 21 And since we are doing this by video 22 conference, it's important that we take our time and try 23 not to speak at the same time because that would become 24 confusing for both of us and difficult for the court 25 reporter. And I'll ask you to follow that rule as well Case 1:13-cv-20610-CMA Document 127-1 Entered on FLSD Docket 05/27/2014 Page 7 of 243 GEORGE MILLER - 5/23/2014 1-800-325-3376 www.merrillcorp.com/law Merrill Corporation - New York Page 6 1 as a few additional ground rules. 2 If I ask you a question, please answer it out 3 loud and clearly so we can all hear you and so the court 4 reporter can take it down for the record. If the 5 question calls for a "yes" or "no," please try to say 6 "yes" or "no" as opposed to "huh-uh" or "uh-huh" because 7 those get confusing. 8 If you do not understand me, do not answer the 9 question. Tell me you don't understand, and I will 10 rephrase it so you do understand. Uhm, if you should 11 need a break for any reason, let us know, and we will 12 let you take a break. 13 A Yes. 14 Q Do all the rules sound fair and reasonable to 15 you? 16 A They do. 17 Q Okay. 18 MR. KLAYMAN: And I might add, Mr. Miller, I'm 19 counsel for myself, pro se, Larry Klayman, as you know. 20 Before you ask a question, pause to give me an 21 opportunity to object if I need to make an objection. 22 THE WITNESS: Yes. 23 MR. KLAYMAN: And try to look into the camera 24 as much as you can. 25 BY MR. KRESS: Case 1:13-cv-20610-CMA Document 127-1 Entered on FLSD Docket 05/27/2014 Page 8 of 243 GEORGE MILLER - 5/23/2014 1-800-325-3376 www.merrillcorp.com/law Merrill Corporation - New York Page 7 1 Q What is your address, Mr. Miller? 2 A 2041 Jamestown Way, Oxnard, California. 3 Q And how old are you? 4 A Sixty-six. 5 Q Can you tell me about your professional 6 background or work experience? I'll let you just tell 7 me instead of trying to ask you a bunch of questions 8 about it. 9 A I'm retired now, but originally, I was a 10 mechanical engineer and transitioned into manufacturing 11 operations in the 1960s; worked in the consulting field 12 for firms like Booz Allen Hamilton in New York. 13 I came out to California in 1980 to run an 14 operation locally, and started my own business in 1986 15 and ran that until I retired around 2010. 16 Q What was the name of your business? 17 A I had two businesses; one was Proaction 18 Management Consultants, and one was The Facilitative 19 Group, both involved in similar businesses of operations 20 management consulting. 21 Q Proaction Management & Consultants, and what 22 was the other one? 23 A Proaction, not "proactive." 24 Q Okay. Proaction Management Consultants? 25 A Proaction, T-I-O-N. Case 1:13-cv-20610-CMA Document 127-1 Entered on FLSD Docket 05/27/2014 Page 9 of 243 GEORGE MILLER - 5/23/2014 1-800-325-3376 www.merrillcorp.com/law Merrill Corporation - New York Page 8 1 Q Okay. I think that's what I'm saying. 2 A Okay. It's not coming across. 3 Q Management Consultants? 4 A Correct. 5 Q And the other one was the -- 6 A Facilitator. 7 Q -- Facilitator Group? 8 A Facilitator Group, correct. 9 Q What was the nature of the business of 10 Proaction Management Consultants? 11 A Operations management consulting and related 12 business systems. 13 Q What's that mean in lay terms? 14 A Operations management consulting is the science 15 of managing a manufacturing business and all the related 16 systems required to provide the information to support 17 that. 18 Q Okay. And what -- what was the nature of the 19 business of The Facilitator Group? 20 A It was almost identical. 21 Q So, also operations management? 22 A Consulting, right. 23 Q Were both businesses located in California? 24 A Yes. 25 Q Did they operate outside of California? Case 1:13-cv-20610-CMA Document 127-1 Entered on FLSD Docket 05/27/2014 Page 10 of 243 GEORGE MILLER - 5/23/2014 1-800-325-3376 www.merrillcorp.com/law Merrill Corporation - New York Page 9 1 A Mostly outside of California and outside of the 2 USA. 3 Q Okay. Did they operate in Florida? 4 A We have done work in Florida. 5 Q What kind of work have you done in Florida? 6 A Mostly -- 7 MR. KLAYMAN: Objection. Relevancy. 8 THE WITNESS: -- onsite analyses of 9 manufacturing firms, providing information on operations 10 management, and consulting in compliance with government 11 contracting regulations related to finance and 12 operations. 13 BY MR. KRESS: 14 Q Okay. So your education I believe is as a 15 mechanical engineer? 16 A That's right, originally. And then I took some 17 business courses subsequently since I drifted into 18 business in the late 1960s. 19 Q And you retired in 2010, you said, correct? 20 A Yes. I actually kind of phased my work out 21 because I was spending more and more time on political 22 activism and less and less time on work, and I just 23 thought it was more important. So I stopped working and 24 focused on this just about exclusively. 25 Q Okay. So now, do you consider yourself to be a Case 1:13-cv-20610-CMA Document 127-1 Entered on FLSD Docket 05/27/2014 Page 11 of 243 GEORGE MILLER - 5/23/2014 1-800-325-3376 www.merrillcorp.com/law Merrill Corporation - New York Page 10 1 political activist? 2 A Yes. 3 Q Tell me the nature of your activities as a 4 political activist? 5 MR. KLAYMAN: And George, I instruct you just 6 to answer the questions that he's asking you, okay? 7 THE WITNESS: Yes, okay. 8 MR. KLAYMAN: Okay. 9 THE WITNESS: I originally started off in about 10 -- in 2008 or 2009, I was very upset because of the 11 economic crash and the huge detrimental effect it had on 12 my investments. So I started studying why that occurred 13 and how the markets were made to crash, how real estate 14 crashed, how the stock market crashed, how currencies 15 were manipulated, and how that related to election 16 politics. And I concluded that some of that really 17 didn't have to occur at all. 18 And then after that, the national election came 19 up, and Obama was elected. And during my studies, I 20 found out this was really not a good guy to be running 21 the country at all. So I began to actively oppose that 22 at the national level, and that's really what led me, 23 ultimately, to meet -- to meet Larry Klayman. 24 I also, when this tea party movement started in 25 2009, I joined a tea party initially to take action. At Case 1:13-cv-20610-CMA Document 127-1 Entered on FLSD Docket 05/27/2014 Page 12 of 243 GEORGE MILLER - 5/23/2014 1-800-325-3376 www.merrillcorp.com/law Merrill Corporation - New York Page 11 1 that time, people weren't very politically 2 sophisticated. We were mostly new to this. We knew 3 nothing about what was going on at all. That was quite 4 an eye opener. I subsequently started the Ventura 5 County Tea Party later in 2010. And part of our 6 activity is that the membership voted that we should 7 investigate Obama more thoroughly, which we did. And in 8 carrying out the wishes of the membership, we, 9 ultimately, worked on engaging Larry to support some of 10 the cases at the national level as well. 11 And then I was also involved in local politics, 12 being involved -- working with one of the major 13 political parties, the Republicans. You know, they were 14 both pretty bad, but Republicans looked a little -- a 15 little less worse. And I was a state delegate. I was a 16 member of different political organizations. I 17 campaigned for various candidates. I wrote publicity 18 for various candidates. 19 And then last year, we -- we ended up starting 20 a newspaper because we felt there really wasn't good 21 news in Ventura County at all. And I spend a lot of my 22 time on that now as well. 23 BY MR. KRESS: 24 Q What's the name of the newspaper? 25 A CitizensJournal.US. Case 1:13-cv-20610-CMA Document 127-1 Entered on FLSD Docket 05/27/2014 Page 13 of 243 GEORGE MILLER - 5/23/2014 1-800-325-3376 www.merrillcorp.com/law Merrill Corporation - New York Page 12 1 Q Is it an online paper then -- 2 A Yes. 3 Q -- or is it a -- okay. 4 A It is online. 5 Q And what is your role in the Citizens Journal? 6 Are you publisher or? 7 A I am the publisher. 8 Q Have you been elected to any political offices? 9 A I don't really have the -- the demeanor or the 10 desire to be in elective office. I work behind the 11 scenes. 12 MR. KLAYMAN: George, when I question asks for 13 a "yes" or "no," just give a "yes" or "no." 14 THE WITNESS: Yes. 15 MR. KLAYMAN: That's what I'm directing you. 16 BY MR. KRESS: 17 Q Mr. Miller, are you represented by counsel for 18 the purposes of this deposition? 19 A I'm sorry. For what? For this deposition? 20 Q For this deposition, are you represented -- are 21 you represented by counsel? 22 MR. KLAYMAN: I'll stipulate to that. He's 23 represented by me. 24 BY MR. KRESS: 25 Q So, it's your belief you are represented by Case 1:13-cv-20610-CMA Document 127-1 Entered on FLSD Docket 05/27/2014 Page 14 of 243 GEORGE MILLER - 5/23/2014 1-800-325-3376 www.merrillcorp.com/law Merrill Corporation - New York Page 13 1 Mr. Klayman in this matter? 2 MR. KLAYMAN: For purposes of the deposition. 3 THE WITNESS: For this deposition. I don't 4 feel he, you know, he's representing me as a client or 5 anything like that. But I've been in contact with him 6 about it, and we have similar interests in this matter. 7 BY MR. KRESS: 8 Q Are you -- are you compensating Mr. Klayman for 9 his assistance to you in this deposition? 10 A No. 11 Q Paying him? 12 A No. 13 Q Is he paying you in any fashion for testimony? 14 A No. 15 MR. KLAYMAN: I'll let you answer that. 16 That's a totally objectionable question, 17 Mr. Kress. It invades the attorney-client privilege and 18 invades work product. 19 MR. KRESS: Well, are you his -- are you 20 stating -- 21 MR. KLAYMAN: He just answered the question. 22 You can go on, Mr. Kress. 23 MR. KRESS: Are you stating you are his 24 attorney? 25 MR. KLAYMAN: For purpose of this deposition, Case 1:13-cv-20610-CMA Document 127-1 Entered on FLSD Docket 05/27/2014 Page 15 of 243 GEORGE MILLER - 5/23/2014 1-800-325-3376 www.merrillcorp.com/law Merrill Corporation - New York Page 14 1 yeah, I just stipulated to that. 2 MR. KRESS: Okay. Are you his attorney for 3 purposes of trial? 4 MR. KLAYMAN: I will be representing him for 5 purposes of trial in terms of objecting to your 6 questions, yes, because I'm a plaintiff pro se. And I 7 have a right to object to the questions. 8 MR. KRESS: I understand you have a right to 9 object, but -- 10 MR. KLAYMAN: I am not being deposed, 11 Mr. Kress. Move on. 12 MR. KRESS: I'm just -- I'm trying to determine 13 whether I should ask questions. Like, for instance -- 14 MR. KLAYMAN: That's as far as you are going to 15 get because you are getting into attorney-client 16 privilege. 17 MR. KRESS: All right. Well, I'm going to ask 18 this question. I'm sure you are going to object and 19 instruct him not to answer, but... 20 BY MR. KRESS: 21 Q Before the deposition began, you stepped out 22 and spoke privately to Mr. Klayman, correct? 23 MR. KLAYMAN: You can answer that, George, but 24 not the substance of the conversation. 25 THE WITNESS: Well, he approached me about the Case 1:13-cv-20610-CMA Document 127-1 Entered on FLSD Docket 05/27/2014 Page 16 of 243 GEORGE MILLER - 5/23/2014 1-800-325-3376 www.merrillcorp.com/law Merrill Corporation - New York Page 15 1 trial and asked me if I would -- 2 MR. KLAYMAN: No, no. That calls for a "yes" 3 or "no," George. 4 MR. KRESS: Well, and I'll get into that later. 5 MR. KLAYMAN: When a question asks "yes" or 6 "no," you respond either "yes" or "no." 7 THE WITNESS: Would you ask the question again, 8 Mr. Kress? 9 BY MR. KRESS: 10 Q I will, yes. 11 Before we began here, we were sitting in the 12 room, and then Mr. Klayman called you privately, and you 13 went and stepped into another room and spoke to 14 Mr. Klayman, correct? 15 A I did, yes. 16 Q What did you talk about? 17 MR. KLAYMAN: You are not -- instruct you not 18 to answer. 19 20 (Witness instructed not to answer.) 21 22 MR. KRESS: All right. We may address that 23 later. 24 THE WITNESS: May I say something? May I say 25 something? Case 1:13-cv-20610-CMA Document 127-1 Entered on FLSD Docket 05/27/2014 Page 17 of 243 GEORGE MILLER - 5/23/2014 1-800-325-3376 www.merrillcorp.com/law Merrill Corporation - New York Page 16 1 MR. KLAYMAN: No, you may not. 2 THE WITNESS: Okay. It's really quite simple. 3 MR. KLAYMAN: I instruct you not to answer. 4 Okay. That's work product, attorney client. 5 MR. KRESS: Uhm... 6 MR. KLAYMAN: Just answer questions. 7 THE WITNESS: Which question? 8 MR. KLAYMAN: There's no question pending. 9 MR. KRESS: There's no question pending, but 10 one will be coming. 11 BY MR. KRESS: 12 Q When did Mr. Klayman first approach you about 13 testifying in this case? 14 MR. KLAYMAN: You are not to respond to that. 15 George, you are not to respond to that. Okay? 16 17 (Witness instructed not to answer.) 18 19 THE WITNESS: Yes. 20 MR. KLAYMAN: That's attorney-client privilege. 21 MR. KRESS: I think we might to have the court 22 intervene. This is a witness. 23 MR. KLAYMAN: That -- I'm representing him for 24 purposes of this deposition. 25 MR. KRESS: All right. We -- I'm going get Case 1:13-cv-20610-CMA Document 127-1 Entered on FLSD Docket 05/27/2014 Page 18 of 243 GEORGE MILLER - 5/23/2014 1-800-325-3376 www.merrillcorp.com/law Merrill Corporation - New York Page 17 1 through the substance of it, and then we may have to 2 call -- 3 MR. KLAYMAN: We can talk about it, but get 4 your questions out there. 5 MR. KRESS: Because he's a -- he's a -- he's a 6 witness. I mean, you can't prevent me from finding out 7 what was discussed with the witness by saying there's an 8 attorney -- you are his attorney. 9 MR. KLAYMAN: Yes, I can because that's 10 attorney-client privilege, Mr. Kress. 11 BY MR. KRESS: 12 Q Do you have any type of fee agreement or 13 retainer agreement with respect to -- with Mr. Klayman 14 with respect to this deposition or the testimony at 15 trial? 16 MR. KLAYMAN: You can answer that. 17 THE WITNESS: We have no financial agreement. 18 BY MR. KRESS: 19 Q Any written agreement whatsoever? 20 A We have no -- 21 MR. KLAYMAN: You can answer that. 22 THE WITNESS: We have no written agreement. 23 BY MR. KRESS: 24 Q What verbal agreement do you have, if any? 25 A Well, I was asked if I would testify on this Case 1:13-cv-20610-CMA Document 127-1 Entered on FLSD Docket 05/27/2014 Page 19 of 243 GEORGE MILLER - 5/23/2014 1-800-325-3376 www.merrillcorp.com/law Merrill Corporation - New York Page 18 1 matter, and I said that I would. 2 Q Okay. 3 A And he said -- 4 Q When was that? 5 A This goes way back. This is two years ago when 6 these events happened. At the time, we both were 7 extremely upset at the lies told by your company. And 8 at that time, Larry said that he was going to sue. I 9 didn't believe him. So, I really had no idea this would 10 ever happen, I'd be sitting here today, but at the time, 11 I said, "If you need help, I will testify as to what 12 happened and what was done to -- to our fundraising 13 effort for Article II PAC, for Constitution Action Fund, 14 for our case, for Michael Voeltz, for our boarded case 15 in California, and that you people really screwed up big 16 time. So, yes, I was very motivated to testify. Any 17 other questions? 18 Q I have a lot of questions. 19 A Go ahead. 20 Q We are going to be -- we're going to be here 21 for a while. 22 A Okay. 23 MR. KLAYMAN: Please avoid the sarcasm, 24 Mr. Kress. 25 MR. KRESS: He asked me if I had more Case 1:13-cv-20610-CMA Document 127-1 Entered on FLSD Docket 05/27/2014 Page 20 of 243 GEORGE MILLER - 5/23/2014 1-800-325-3376 www.merrillcorp.com/law Merrill Corporation - New York Page 19 1 questions. 2 MR. KLAYMAN: That's fine, but no more sarcasm. 3 Just be -- just be a gentleman to my client. 4 MR. KRESS: I am being a gentleman with your 5 client. 6 MR. KLAYMAN: Thank you. 7 BY MR. KRESS: 8 Q And -- okay. Do you intend to travel to 9 Florida for the trial? 10 A Excuse me? 11 Q Do you intend to travel to Florida for the 12 trial? 13 A It was my intention I had to go to Miami for a 14 trial, which has been postponed once already. 15 Q Who is paying for your airfare? 16 A It's my impression -- 17 MR. KLAYMAN: You are not to answer that. You 18 are not to answer that. 19 20 (Witness instructed not to answer.) 21 22 BY MR. KRESS: 23 Q Are you paying for your own airfare? 24 MR. KLAYMAN: You are not to answer that. 25 Attorney-client privilege. Case 1:13-cv-20610-CMA Document 127-1 Entered on FLSD Docket 05/27/2014 Page 21 of 243 GEORGE MILLER - 5/23/2014 1-800-325-3376 www.merrillcorp.com/law Merrill Corporation - New York Page 20 1 2 (Witness instructed not to answer.) 3 4 BY MR. KRESS: 5 Q Who is paying for your hotel when you are here? 6 MR. KLAYMAN: You are not to answer that. 7 Attorney-client privilege. 8 9 (Witness instructed not to answer.) 10 11 BY MR. KRESS: 12 Q Okay. When did you first meet Larry Klayman? 13 A I first met Larry Klayman in December of 2011, 14 but I had -- face to face. 15 Q Okay. Did you speak to him or communicate with 16 him before December 2011? 17 A Yes. 18 Q And in what circumstances did you speak to him 19 prior to December of 2011? 20 A Well, you know, Larry's a very famous person, 21 having been the founder of the organization, which now 22 pays you. And he's been involved extensively in various 23 causes for liberty and justice. And I've always been a 24 great admirer of Larry, and I contacted him a couple of 25 times, once when he was running a rally in Washington, Case 1:13-cv-20610-CMA Document 127-1 Entered on FLSD Docket 05/27/2014 Page 22 of 243 GEORGE MILLER - 5/23/2014 1-800-325-3376 www.merrillcorp.com/law Merrill Corporation - New York Page 21 1 DC. And numerous times, I tried to get him to work for 2 us to take on cases, but it wasn't until December 3 of 2011 where I actually met him and was able to talk in 4 detail about it. 5 Q Okay. So, you -- but you contacted him before 6 that and tried to get him to help you? 7 A Excuse me? 8 Q You had contacted him before December of 2011 9 and sought his assistance, correct? 10 A Correct. 11 Q In other matters? 12 A Yes. 13 Q Tell me what occurred in December of 2011 with 14 respect to Mr. Klayman? 15 A Well, I met him, and I immediately brought up 16 the topic, which is of mutual interest. I told him what 17 we were trying to accomplish. He indicated that he 18 agreed with it. And I asked him if he would consider 19 representing us, and he was amenable to that. And we 20 met the following week and worked out a tentative 21 agreement, which I then had to get ratification for from 22 my group of people. 23 So, we had a major teleconference after that, 24 and we agreed -- we hammered out the details of how it 25 would work, and then we moved forward from there. Case 1:13-cv-20610-CMA Document 127-1 Entered on FLSD Docket 05/27/2014 Page 23 of 243 GEORGE MILLER - 5/23/2014 1-800-325-3376 www.merrillcorp.com/law Merrill Corporation - New York Page 22 1 Q Who is your group? 2 A Well, uhm, at that time, I was involved in the 3 Obama Ballot Challenge effort, which was a national 4 group, a very loose affiliation of people, who 5 communicated by telephone and e-mail. And we started 6 off with the New Hampshire Ballot Challenge, since 7 that's the first one in the country, and developed some 8 relationships during that time. 9 I was also the lead person that ran a website 10 called "Obama Ballot Challenge" that attempted to report 11 on what was happening in that movement and also reported 12 -- attempted to motivate people to get involved in the 13 movement, to contribute money, to contribute legal 14 services, to file cases all over the nation. 15 And then subsequently, I was involved with some 16 different organizations that were being used as vehicles 17 to raise funds. 18 Q So, you've extensively worked on the Obama 19 challenges even before communicating with Mr. Klayman, 20 correct? 21 A Yes, yes. 22 Q For instance, Mr. Klayman was not involved in 23 the New Hampshire matter? 24 A I don't know if he was or not. 25 Q Well, you didn't involve him in the New Case 1:13-cv-20610-CMA Document 127-1 Entered on FLSD Docket 05/27/2014 Page 24 of 243 GEORGE MILLER - 5/23/2014 1-800-325-3376 www.merrillcorp.com/law Merrill Corporation - New York Page 23 1 Hampshire matter, did you? 2 A No. No, I didn't. 3 Q You're an admirer of Larry Klayman? 4 A Yes. 5 Q Are you a friend of Larry Klayman? 6 A I would consider myself a friend now just 7 because we've worked together and been through a lot of 8 battles together. 9 Q Okay. 10 A I mean, he hasn't been to my house. I haven't 11 been to his house or anything like that, but, you know, 12 we are on very -- we are on good terms. 13 Q Okay. What was the -- you talked -- you talked 14 about a couple of these groups. 15 What was the name of the group that was looking 16 to hire Larry Klayman? 17 A The name of the group. It was just some 18 individuals, you know. We are just people. We didn't 19 have a corporation. We didn't have an organization. 20 Q Who are the names -- who are the names of the 21 people? 22 A Well, there are really dozens of people. But 23 the ones that were most centrally involved in the 24 organization were myself, Captain Pamela Barnett, Sam 25 Sewell. We are the ones that actually formed the Case 1:13-cv-20610-CMA Document 127-1 Entered on FLSD Docket 05/27/2014 Page 25 of 243 GEORGE MILLER - 5/23/2014 1-800-325-3376 www.merrillcorp.com/law Merrill Corporation - New York Page 24 1 fundraising organization. There were many others 2 involved, too. 3 One of the things we had to do is figure out 4 which cases we were going to work on. So, some people 5 submitted different cases; among them, Mike Voeltz from 6 Florida, and Pamela Barnett for the California case. 7 Those are the two cases that we initially wanted to have 8 Larry represent us on. And then we had delusions of 9 grandeur, it turned out because we wanted to have him go 10 through several states and work with lawyers in 11 different states and have more of a coordinated effort. 12 And you, folks, did a really good job of sabotaging that 13 for us. Thank you. 14 MR. KRESS: Move to strike as nonresponsive. 15 MR. KLAYMAN: It was responsive. 16 BY MR. KRESS: 17 Q So, let's go to the exhibits, Mr. Miller. Do 18 you have those in front of you? 19 A I do, yes. 20 Q Can you, please, go to Exhibit 6? 21 22 (Exhibit 6 identified.) 23 24 A Yes. The retention agreement? 25 Q Yes. Okay. You are familiar with this Case 1:13-cv-20610-CMA Document 127-1 Entered on FLSD Docket 05/27/2014 Page 26 of 243 GEORGE MILLER - 5/23/2014 1-800-325-3376 www.merrillcorp.com/law Merrill Corporation - New York Page 25 1 document, correct? 2 A Yes. 3 Q It's an e-mail from Larry Klayman to you, dated 4 February 8, 2012, correct? 5 A That's correct. 6 Q And is this -- is this the only retention 7 agreement that you have with Mr. Klayman related to the 8 Obama cases? 9 MR. KLAYMAN: Objection. Assumes facts not in 10 evidence. Leading. 11 BY MR. KRESS: 12 Q You can answer. 13 MR. KLAYMAN: You can answer. That's a legal 14 objection. 15 THE WITNESS: Yes, as far as I know. 16 BY MR. KRESS: 17 Q Okay. Let me ask it a different way. I just 18 want to try to avoid any objections. 19 Did -- did you, personally, enter into any 20 other agreements with Larry Klayman with respect to 21 Obama litigation? 22 MR. KLAYMAN: Objection. Assumes facts not in 23 evidence. Leading. 24 You can respond. 25 THE WITNESS: No. Case 1:13-cv-20610-CMA Document 127-1 Entered on FLSD Docket 05/27/2014 Page 27 of 243 GEORGE MILLER - 5/23/2014 1-800-325-3376 www.merrillcorp.com/law Merrill Corporation - New York Page 26 1 BY MR. KRESS: 2 Q Okay. Did you hire Larry Klayman to file an 3 Obama challenge? 4 A Well, it depends on what you mean by "you." I 5 did not personally take on any obligation, but I did 6 commit our fundraising efforts to do that. And many 7 people attempted to help me with that, and we intended 8 to raise enough money to not only do the Voeltz case, 9 but the California case and cases in other states as 10 well; and, if necessary, take this to the Supreme Court, 11 which we knew would be quite expensive, you know, beyond 12 our personal means to finance. So we needed to raise 13 funds from people who were motivated to act on this. 14 Q Okay. Well, the letter that's before us, as 15 Exhibit 6, is only -- you are the only recipient of the 16 letter, correct? 17 MR. KLAYMAN: Objection. Leading. Assumes 18 facts not in evidence. And document speaks for itself. 19 BY MR. KRESS: 20 Q You can answer. 21 MR. KLAYMAN: You can answer. 22 THE WITNESS: I was the point person. 23 MR. KLAYMAN: It was an improper question, but 24 you can answer that. Okay. 25 THE WITNESS: Okay. Answer an improper Case 1:13-cv-20610-CMA Document 127-1 Entered on FLSD Docket 05/27/2014 Page 28 of 243 GEORGE MILLER - 5/23/2014 1-800-325-3376 www.merrillcorp.com/law Merrill Corporation - New York Page 27 1 question. I was the point person on this thing. I was 2 the one that was the entrepreneur that found Larry 3 Klayman, met Larry Klayman, made the proposal, 4 marshalled the resources, wrote the agreements, but 5 other people were involved in this as well. 6 BY MR. KRESS: 7 Q Okay. And the other people, you mentioned 8 Pamela Barnett and Sam Sewell. 9 Anyone else that you can identify? 10 A I'm not sure I want to identify them and drag 11 them into this thing unless that's necessary for the 12 case. 13 MR. KLAYMAN: You can identify them, George. 14 THE WITNESS: I can answer it? 15 MR. KLAYMAN: You can identify them, George. 16 Yeah, you can answer. 17 THE WITNESS: Okay. Well, for example, the 18 following week after I met Larry Klayman, Tony Dolz 19 (phonetic) accompanied me for the negotiations to hammer 20 out the scope of the case and the financial arrangements 21 in Beverly Hills, meeting Larry Klayman. 22 BY MR. KRESS: 23 Q Let's go through the process of hiring Larry in 24 a little more detail. You communicated with him in 25 December of 2011. And then was that by phone or -- that Case 1:13-cv-20610-CMA Document 127-1 Entered on FLSD Docket 05/27/2014 Page 29 of 243 GEORGE MILLER - 5/23/2014 1-800-325-3376 www.merrillcorp.com/law Merrill Corporation - New York Page 28 1 was in person, correct? 2 A I met him in person at the time. 3 Q Okay. What happened next with respect to 4 hiring Larry Klayman, either through you or through a 5 group you are affiliated with? 6 A Well, I followed up with a call, which he did 7 not respond to. And I had a mutual friend call him and 8 persuade him to talk to me. And then we talked, and 9 then we established a meeting, a face-to-face meeting in 10 Beverly Hills, which we did that -- the very next week, 11 I think, or maybe the week after. I can't remember the 12 exact chronology. 13 And then I had to go out to our followers and 14 -- and I communicated to them the essence of what Larry 15 wanted to do and what we had tentatively agreed on with 16 Tony, and we got agreement from a lot of people to do 17 that because they said they would help spread the word 18 and raise the money, and they were in accord with what 19 Larry and I wanted to do. 20 Q Okay. So, there's this collective effort to 21 hire Larry. 22 MR. KLAYMAN: Please don't characterize his 23 testimony. 24 MR. KRESS: Larry -- 25 MR. KLAYMAN: That's improper. Case 1:13-cv-20610-CMA Document 127-1 Entered on FLSD Docket 05/27/2014 Page 30 of 243 GEORGE MILLER - 5/23/2014 1-800-325-3376 www.merrillcorp.com/law Merrill Corporation - New York Page 29 1 MR. KRESS: Let me just as the questions. 2 BY MR. KRESS: 3 Q Who hired Larry to represent -- who hired Larry 4 for the purposes of the Florida Obama litigation? 5 A Well, this group of people, basically. 6 Q Okay. Is there a written agreement with -- 7 between Larry and a group of people? 8 A The only thing we have is this document -- 9 MR. KLAYMAN: Asked and answered. George -- 10 MR. KRESS: Please let him answer. 11 MR. KLAYMAN: I'm allowed to make an objection. 12 MR. KRESS: You can object to the form. 13 MR. KLAYMAN: I am. Asked and answered. 14 THE WITNESS: Excuse me? Answer it? 15 MR. KLAYMAN: Objection is asked and answered, 16 George. 17 BY MR. KRESS: 18 Q And you can answer the question, which is -- 19 MR. KLAYMAN: Yeah, after I make the objection, 20 you can answer the question. 21 MR. KRESS: Of course. 22 THE WITNESS: Yeah, it was understood with the 23 group I was speaking for them. So we perceived the 24 agreement was the group, and that our commitment was to 25 raise funds through our fundraising vehicles, which Case 1:13-cv-20610-CMA Document 127-1 Entered on FLSD Docket 05/27/2014 Page 31 of 243 GEORGE MILLER - 5/23/2014 1-800-325-3376 www.merrillcorp.com/law Merrill Corporation - New York Page 30 1 would fuel this effort. 2 BY MR. KRESS: 3 Q Who is the client? 4 A Who was the client? 5 MR. KLAYMAN: That's both a legal conclusion 6 and calls for legal conclusion. 7 MR. KRESS: Larry, you are being very invasive 8 and -- 9 MR. KLAYMAN: You are asking improper 10 questions, Mr. Kress. 11 MR. KRESS: No, I am not. 12 BY MR. KRESS: 13 Q Who was the client? 14 MR. KLAYMAN: I'm allowed to object. 15 MR. KRESS: You are allowed to object to some 16 extent. 17 MR. KLAYMAN: I will object, and please be 18 respectful to me as well as my client, and let me make 19 my objection. Do not talk over me. That's 20 attorney-client privilege. 21 MR. KRESS: Not who the client was. 22 MR. KLAYMAN: He already testified. Asked and 23 answered. He already testified to it. 24 MR. KRESS: I don't think we do -- 25 BY MR. KRESS: Case 1:13-cv-20610-CMA Document 127-1 Entered on FLSD Docket 05/27/2014 Page 32 of 243 GEORGE MILLER - 5/23/2014 1-800-325-3376 www.merrillcorp.com/law Merrill Corporation - New York Page 31 1 Q What -- what's the name of the client? 2 MR. KLAYMAN: You can answer the question, 3 George, that's fine, but I have to make a question, so 4 please -- objection. Don't talk over me when I have an 5 opportunity to make an objection. You can answer the 6 question. 7 BY MR. KRESS: 8 Q And the question is: What was the name of the 9 client subject to Mr. Klayman's -- 10 MR. KLAYMAN: (Inaudible.) 11 (Mr. Klayman talking at the same time. 12 Mr. Kress and witness are talking.) 13 THE WITNESS: There are some legalities 14 involved in there, which I may not understand. Let me 15 give you an analogy of something I do understand. When 16 I was in the consulting business -- 17 BY MR. KRESS: 18 Q I just want you to -- 19 MR. KLAYMAN: Wait, let him answer. 20 THE WITNESS: Would you just listen, please? 21 MR. KLAYMAN: Be respectful of my client, 22 please. 23 THE WITNESS: When I was in the consulting 24 business, we had both a client and a customer. The 25 client was the ultimate beneficiary of the work. The Case 1:13-cv-20610-CMA Document 127-1 Entered on FLSD Docket 05/27/2014 Page 33 of 243 GEORGE MILLER - 5/23/2014 1-800-325-3376 www.merrillcorp.com/law Merrill Corporation - New York Page 32 1 customer might be the one that engaged me. So, I would 2 characterize myself as Larry's customer, but the client 3 was Michael Voeltz, in this particular case. 4 BY MR. KRESS: 5 Q Okay. That's fine. Thank you. 6 Are you aware of a written agreement between 7 Larry Klayman and Michael Voeltz for the purpose of the 8 Obama litigation? 9 A I don't know. That's really not my bailiwick. 10 Q Okay. Don't know one way or the other? 11 A I don't know, no. I don't know. 12 Q Okay. And just so it's clear on the record, 13 because all the objections and the talking -- 14 MR. KLAYMAN: Wait a second. Wait a second. 15 MR. KRESS: I haven't even asked a question 16 yet. 17 MR. KLAYMAN: Yeah, but you are making 18 sarcastic -- 19 MR. KRESS: I'm not making sarcastic remarks. 20 I'm trying to clarify the record. I'm going to do it. 21 MR. KLAYMAN: I'm allowed to make objections. 22 MR. KRESS: I haven't asked a question yet. 23 MR. KLAYMAN: But let me make objections, and 24 you won't have a problem. If you give me an opportunity 25 to object, like I did when your clients were being Case 1:13-cv-20610-CMA Document 127-1 Entered on FLSD Docket 05/27/2014 Page 34 of 243 GEORGE MILLER - 5/23/2014 1-800-325-3376 www.merrillcorp.com/law Merrill Corporation - New York Page 33 1 represented and made their own objections without even 2 you. So give me an opportunity and don't be sarcastic 3 with George. 4 MR. KRESS: Okay. 5 BY MR. KRESS: 6 Q Just to make sure we are clear on the record, 7 I'm trying to speak as evenly as possible, the only 8 agreement for the retention -- only written agreement 9 for the retention of Larry Klayman's services with 10 respect to the Florida Obama litigation is what's 11 reflected in Exhibit 6, correct? 12 MR. KLAYMAN: Asked and answered. 13 MR. KRESS: And he can answer it again. 14 MR. KLAYMAN: Ask and answered. 15 MR. KRESS: He can answer the question. 16 THE WITNESS: Yes. 17 MR. KLAYMAN: He testified to quite long 18 answer. 19 MR. KRESS: Thank you. 20 THE WITNESS: Yes, again. 21 COURT REPORTER: Counsel... 22 MR. KRESS: Yes. 23 COURT REPORTER: Please, do not talk over one 24 another. You're starting to make me angry, and I can't 25 throw my shoe through the phone. (Laughter.) Case 1:13-cv-20610-CMA Document 127-1 Entered on FLSD Docket 05/27/2014 Page 35 of 243 GEORGE MILLER - 5/23/2014 1-800-325-3376 www.merrillcorp.com/law Merrill Corporation - New York Page 34 1 MR. KRESS: All right. You could, but it 2 wouldn't do much good for you or anyone else. I 3 apologize, and we'll try. 4 BY MR. KRESS: 5 Q Okay. So let's -- let's talk about this 6 agreement here in -- in Exhibit 6, but first of all, did 7 you, either independently or on behalf of the group, 8 agree to the terms reflected in Exhibit 6? 9 A Well, what we agreed to is that we would make a 10 maximal effort to raise money from our donors. 11 Q Okay. The agreement refers to an upfront 12 retainer of $18,000. 13 Was that paid? 14 MR. KLAYMAN: Objection. Mischaracterizes the 15 document. The document for itself. 16 George, take a look at the document. 17 THE WITNESS: Okay. I'm looking at it. 18 MR. KLAYMAN: I ask, Mr. Kress, that you don't 19 mischaracterize documents please. That's not -- 20 MR. KRESS: I'll read it word for word. 21 MR. KLAYMAN: It's not correct or ethical. 22 BY MR. KRESS: 23 Q I'll read it word for word then. 24 In paragraph 2, it says: 25 "To file suit in Florida, we will need Case 1:13-cv-20610-CMA Document 127-1 Entered on FLSD Docket 05/27/2014 Page 36 of 243 GEORGE MILLER - 5/23/2014 1-800-325-3376 www.merrillcorp.com/law Merrill Corporation - New York Page 35 1 an upfront retainer of 18K, which will need to 2 be kept at this level throughout the course of 3 the case replenishing it monthly." 4 And it goes on to say: 5 "I will bill for out-of-pocket 6 disbursements and expenses and my hourly rate 7 of $395 per hour, which is reduced from my 8 usual minimum rate of $600 per hour. The 9 statements will issue on the 1st of each month 10 and be payable upon -- or payable on receipt." 11 Did I read that correctly? 12 A Yes. 13 MR. KLAYMAN: It's not accurate. 14 MR. KRESS: I'm asking -- 15 MR. KLAYMAN: No, no, it's not accurate because 16 you are mischaracterizing the document. What you are 17 doing is unethical. 18 MR. KRESS: It's not unethical. 19 MR. KLAYMAN: It's unethical. Read the next 20 line. 21 MR. KRESS: Okay. We can -- I want to ask him 22 questions about that. 23 MR. KLAYMAN: The objection, because you are 24 distorting the document, the document speaks for itself, 25 and you are not reading the whole document. Case 1:13-cv-20610-CMA Document 127-1 Entered on FLSD Docket 05/27/2014 Page 37 of 243 GEORGE MILLER - 5/23/2014 1-800-325-3376 www.merrillcorp.com/law Merrill Corporation - New York Page 36 1 BY MR. KRESS: 2 Q Was an upfront retainer of $18,000 paid by 3 Larry Klayman -- paid to Larry Klayman? 4 A Not -- not on the terms that were done here. 5 We were not able to all the money before he started, but 6 to his eternal credit, he agreed to start anyway in the 7 interests of our country. 8 Q Okay. Was the $18,000 retainer paid at some 9 point? 10 A Yes. 11 Q At what point was it paid? 12 A It was actually after the hearing. So, he 13 actually went and did the hearing without having the 14 full amount, but we finally did raise that and part of 15 the expense money. 16 Q How much was -- how much was Larry paying -- 17 Larry Klayman paid in total from the group related to 18 the Florida Obama litigation? 19 A It was about 21,000 something. I don't 20 remember the exact amount anymore. 21 Q Did that -- was that based on fees, expenses or 22 both? 23 A Well, the retainer was 18,000. There was some 24 feels over and above that, which we were able to 25 partially reimburse him for. Case 1:13-cv-20610-CMA Document 127-1 Entered on FLSD Docket 05/27/2014 Page 38 of 243 GEORGE MILLER - 5/23/2014 1-800-325-3376 www.merrillcorp.com/law Merrill Corporation - New York Page 37 1 Q Okay. Did you pay for any of his -- his 2 expenses? 3 A Again, 18,000 was retainer and the rest was -- 4 went towards his expenses. So, I think that would be a 5 yes. 6 Q Okay. Did Larry Klayman issue any billing 7 statements to you or to the group? 8 A Yes. I believe there's one in the exhibits, is 9 there not? 10 Q Yes. Is that -- we will refer to that one. If 11 you could look at George Miller Deposition Exhibit 8, 12 please. 13 14 (Exhibit 8 identified.) 15 16 A Exhibit 8. Yes, I see it. 17 Q Okay. And you are familiar with this document, 18 correct? 19 A I am, yes. 20 Q Other than this billing statement -- well, let 21 me ask it -- let me ask it a little bit more clearly. 22 Did Larry Klayman issue any bills to you or to 23 your group related to the Florida Obama litigation? 24 MR. KLAYMAN: Hold on, George. 25 Asked and answered. You already referred to a Case 1:13-cv-20610-CMA Document 127-1 Entered on FLSD Docket 05/27/2014 Page 39 of 243 GEORGE MILLER - 5/23/2014 1-800-325-3376 www.merrillcorp.com/law Merrill Corporation - New York Page 38 1 prior document, which set forth amounts of retainers, 2 and you misstated what was in there as well. There was 3 18,000 that was Florida and 25 of it was California as 4 well. 5 Go ahead. You can answer, George. I just want 6 to make sure you focus on the question. 7 THE WITNESS: Yeah. There was the initial -- 8 there was the initial retainer agreement and some 9 dunning on that, and there was this particular bill in 10 Exhibit 8, plus he referred to much larger amount of 11 time he had put in that he did bill us for. And at that 12 time, he felt he was not going to be compensated for it. 13 BY MR. KRESS: 14 Q Okay. So, let's just break that down a little 15 bit. 16 Mr. Klayman sent you Exhibit 6, correct? 17 A Let me go back to Exhibit 6 again. I don't 18 remember which one it is. Yes. Yes, he did. 19 Q Okay. And that refers -- I will try to 20 characterize it because -- there's some reference in 21 there to retainers and so forth. And then he sent you 22 Exhibit 8, which is a billing statement. 23 Did Larry Klayman send you any other written 24 bills or billing statements or invoices for his services 25 in the Obama -- Florida Obama litigation? Case 1:13-cv-20610-CMA Document 127-1 Entered on FLSD Docket 05/27/2014 Page 40 of 243 GEORGE MILLER - 5/23/2014 1-800-325-3376 www.merrillcorp.com/law Merrill Corporation - New York Page 39 1 A I didn't see any hard copy or digital image, 2 but we discussed the scope of what he had done for us 3 that exceeded both of these substantially. 4 Q Okay. I just want to -- but I just want to 5 make sure it's clear on the record. 6 Did he send you any written documents -- I'm 7 looking for written documents right now -- that were 8 bills or invoices for his services in the Florida Obama 9 litigation other than Exhibit 6 and Exhibit 8? 10 A Not that I'm aware of, no. 11 Q Okay. And I just to make sure that I'm clear 12 on this. Uhm... regardless of the amounts stated in 13 Exhibit 6 and Exhibit 8, it's your recollection that 14 Larry Klayman was paid approximately $21,000 by the 15 group for the Florida Obama litigation? 16 MR. KLAYMAN: Objection. Improper question. 17 Compound. You are mixing apples and oranges. You can 18 ask him for each particular document, but not on a 19 compound question like that. 20 BY MR. KRESS: 21 Q You can answer, if you understand. 22 A Why don't you ask them separately so even I can 23 understand. 24 Q When you -- you testified earlier, I believe, 25 that the group paid Larry Klayman approximately $21,000 Case 1:13-cv-20610-CMA Document 127-1 Entered on FLSD Docket 05/27/2014 Page 41 of 243 GEORGE MILLER - 5/23/2014 1-800-325-3376 www.merrillcorp.com/law Merrill Corporation - New York Page 40 1 for his services in the Florida Obama litigation, 2 correct? 3 A Correct, yes. 4 Q Was that based on -- well, at what time was he 5 paid? Do you remember what month? 6 A He was paid in dribs and drabs, as we could 7 collect the money. And we would save enough to send it, 8 and he would call us up begging for it sooner. So we 9 would send it pretty much whenever he asked when we had 10 some. 11 Q Uhm-hum. And if you could refer to Exhibit 7, 12 please. 13 14 (Exhibit 7 identified.) 15 16 A Yes. 17 Q Okay. There's actually two e-mails referenced 18 on this one page. The first one is at the bottom of the 19 page, and it's from Larry Klayman to George Miller, 20 May 7, 2012, at 8:43 p.m. And it states: 21 "George, Sam and Pamela." 22 So that's you, Sam Sewell, and Pamela Barnett, 23 correct? 24 A Yes. 25 Q And it states: Case 1:13-cv-20610-CMA Document 127-1 Entered on FLSD Docket 05/27/2014 Page 42 of 243 GEORGE MILLER - 5/23/2014 1-800-325-3376 www.merrillcorp.com/law Merrill Corporation - New York Page 41 1 "This confirms that I will take this 2 through the hearing on defendant's motion to 3 dismiss if you pay the agreed retainer in full 4 of 18,000 before the hearing. You agreed to 5 pay about 3,000 this week with more coming next 6 week. The remainder of the retainer at this 7 point in time is 11K. Thank you for your 8 cooperation and best, Larry Klayman." 9 If you know, is the 18K that's referenced in 10 this May 7, 2012, e-mail from Larry Klayman the $18,000 11 retainer referenced in the February 8, 2012, e-mail? 12 A It's all the original retainer, yes. 13 Q Okay. Thank you. 14 And then if we go to the e-mail above that, 15 this appears to be from microma- -- 16 microcapmaven@aol.com. 17 Do you know whose e-mail address that is? 18 A Yeah, that's mine. 19 Q Is that yours? 20 A It's my -- my address. 21 Q So, that's from you to Larry Klayman. It says: 22 "We have already paid at least 9K." 23 And then I'm not going to read the whole thing. 24 I'm not trying to misrepresent it. I just don't think I 25 need to read the whole thing. Case 1:13-cv-20610-CMA Document 127-1 Entered on FLSD Docket 05/27/2014 Page 43 of 243 GEORGE MILLER - 5/23/2014 1-800-325-3376 www.merrillcorp.com/law Merrill Corporation - New York Page 42 1 MR. KLAYMAN: Well, but -- objection. 2 Objection. If you're -- well, take it -- 3 MR. KRESS: I am not -- 4 MR. KLAYMAN: Give me an opportunity to object. 5 MR. KRESS: Okay. 6 MR. KLAYMAN: If you distort this the way you 7 distorted the other one. 8 MR. KRESS: I object to your characterization. 9 BY MR. KRESS: 10 Q The first -- just reading the first sentence, 11 it says: 12 "We've already paid at least 9,000." 13 And then the last sentence says: 14 "That would leave 9K or less to go 15 according to my math. Where did I go wrong?" 16 What did you mean by -- by that statement, 17 "That would leave 9K or less to, go according to my 18 math. Where did I go wrong?" 19 A I think the memo speaks for itself. Add up the 20 numbers. It comes to eight, nine, $9,300. That would 21 mean that I owe -- that we owe less than 9,000 since the 22 retainer was 18,000. 23 Correct? 24 Q That makes sense to me. 25 A Okay. Case 1:13-cv-20610-CMA Document 127-1 Entered on FLSD Docket 05/27/2014 Page 44 of 243 GEORGE MILLER - 5/23/2014 1-800-325-3376 www.merrillcorp.com/law Merrill Corporation - New York Page 43 1 MR. KLAYMAN: Object. Move to strike. 2 Mr. Kress, please avoid the colloquy, okay, because 3 that's what causes me to have to object. I don't want 4 to have to interrupt your questioning, but please don't 5 put your own thoughts on the record. You are not 6 testifying. You're not under oath. I'll put you under 7 oath, and I can depose you. 8 MR. KRESS: Your client is asking questions. 9 MR. KLAYMAN: No, but it's improper. 10 BY MR. KRESS: 11 Q Well, let's go to Exhibit 9. Take a moment to 12 read this, please. 13 14 (Exhibit 9 identified.) 15 16 A Yes. 17 Q You are familiar with this e-mail? 18 A Yes, I am. 19 Q You recall receiving it from Larry Klayman on 20 or about August 9th of 2012? 21 A At this point, I can't deny it. It's something 22 we've discussed before. I remember hearing e-mails. 23 Did I receive it on that exact date? I don't know. It 24 looks like it from this copy. 25 Q Uhm-hum. I want to refer you to paragraph 3. Case 1:13-cv-20610-CMA Document 127-1 Entered on FLSD Docket 05/27/2014 Page 45 of 243 GEORGE MILLER - 5/23/2014 1-800-325-3376 www.merrillcorp.com/law Merrill Corporation - New York Page 44 1 It says: 2 "There is no formal contract" -- I'm 3 sorry, I misread that. It states: 4 "That there is no formal written 5 contract is not controlling. There is written 6 evidence of our agreement in the form of 7 e-mails and you owe the moneys under the legal 8 doctrines of promissory estoppel, quantum 9 meruit and unjust enrichment as well as breach 10 of contract. A contract can be oral as well as 11 written." 12 As the recipient of this e-mail, what did that 13 mean to you? 14 A Well, he's attempting to say that I, 15 personally, owe the money. I did subsequently clarify 16 that it was -- it was an effort to raise funds, and that 17 we had committed to try to raise those funds. 18 Otherwise, I agreed pretty much. I'm not a lawyer. I 19 couldn't tell you exactly what the word "estoppel" 20 means, but the bottom line is that we wanted to do this 21 project. We agreed to work and raise the funds with our 22 best efforts, and we continued to attempt to do that 23 during the life of this relationship. 24 Q Thank you. 25 But as of August 9, 2012, was Larry Klayman Case 1:13-cv-20610-CMA Document 127-1 Entered on FLSD Docket 05/27/2014 Page 46 of 243 GEORGE MILLER - 5/23/2014 1-800-325-3376 www.merrillcorp.com/law Merrill Corporation - New York Page 45 1 asking that you and Pamela Barnett and Sam Sewell pay 2 his bill? 3 A Well, depends again what you mean by "you." He 4 used "you" in there, but again, as I told you, we were 5 attempting to bring the group together to raise the 6 funds, yes. 7 Q Okay. Did you, personally, refuse to 8 contribute to Larry's legal bills or Larry's efforts 9 because of any comments that you read on Orly Taitz 10 website? 11 A Well, I will tell you -- 12 MR. KLAYMAN: Objection. Assumes facts. 13 Objection. George, hold on. 14 MR. KRESS: Wait. Don't -- let's not coach 15 him. 16 MR. KLAYMAN: I'm not coaching him. 17 MR. KRESS: If you have an objection, don't 18 coach him -- he's your client. 19 MR. KLAYMAN: It assumes facts not testified 20 to. Not in evidence. 21 MR. KRESS: I'll break it down a little bit. 22 MR. KLAYMAN: Break it down, please. 23 BY MR. KRESS: 24 Q I know that you, at some point, read that Orly 25 Taitz posted on her website that Connie Ruffley said Case 1:13-cv-20610-CMA Document 127-1 Entered on FLSD Docket 05/27/2014 Page 47 of 243 GEORGE MILLER - 5/23/2014 1-800-325-3376 www.merrillcorp.com/law Merrill Corporation - New York Page 46 1 that Larry Klayman had been convicted of a crime of not 2 paying child support; is that correct? 3 A Correct. 4 MR. KLAYMAN: Object. That mischaracterizes -- 5 hold it, George. Just a moment. 6 That mischaracterizes what was on the website. 7 It was that I was convicted of a crime, and the 8 information should be given that I -- 9 MR. KRESS: I object. 10 MR. KLAYMAN: Let me -- let me tell you 11 something. 12 MR. KRESS: I ask -- 13 MR. KLAYMAN: The questions that you you are 14 asking are misleading, and they mischaracterize what's 15 in -- what Connie Ruffley said. So, consequently, 16 please read to him that which was published on the 17 website because otherwise it's not ethical to do this. 18 MR. KRESS: This is plenty ethical. 19 MR. KLAYMAN: It's not. It's not. 20 BY MR. KRESS: 21 Q Mr. -- Mr. Miller, do you recall reading Connie 22 Ruffley's -- I'm sorry. 23 Do you recall reading Orly Taitz's website 24 posting from February 23, 2012? 25 A I don't remember the exact date, but it was in Case 1:13-cv-20610-CMA Document 127-1 Entered on FLSD Docket 05/27/2014 Page 48 of 243 GEORGE MILLER - 5/23/2014 1-800-325-3376 www.merrillcorp.com/law Merrill Corporation - New York Page 47 1 February, and she -- she used Connie's -- 2 Q My question is -- okay. We can -- we can go to 3 Exhibit Number 14. 4 MR. KLAYMAN: Let's do that. 5 MR. KRESS: Let's do that. 6 THE WITNESS: Okay. 7 8 (Exhibit 14 identified.) 9 10 BY MR. KRESS: 11 Q So, you are familiar with Exhibit 14, correct? 12 A Yes, I am. 13 Q Let me ask you this -- 14 MR. KLAYMAN: Give him an opportunity to review 15 it if you are going to ask him questions. 16 Go ahead, George, read it. 17 MR. KRESS: Well, I don't -- 18 MR. KLAYMAN: He's entitled to do that if you 19 are going to ask him questions on the exhibit. 20 BY MR. KRESS: 21 Q If you need to read the whole thing -- 22 MR. KLAYMAN: I'm instructing him to do it 23 because that's the way you should ask questions; give 24 him the opportunity to look at the document first. 25 That's the ethical thing to do. Case 1:13-cv-20610-CMA Document 127-1 Entered on FLSD Docket 05/27/2014 Page 49 of 243 GEORGE MILLER - 5/23/2014 1-800-325-3376 www.merrillcorp.com/law Merrill Corporation - New York Page 48 1 THE WITNESS: Okay. There's a lot in here. 2 What are your specific questions? 3 BY MR. KRESS: 4 Q My question is, did anything in Exhibit 14, 5 after you read it, cause you to refrain personally from 6 contributing to any of -- contributing money to any -- 7 MR. KLAYMAN: Hold it, George. 8 MR. KRESS: Let me ask the question. 9 MR. KLAYMAN: Ask it, but do not answer the 10 question because it's an improper question. I need to 11 make an objection. 12 BY MR. KRESS: 13 Q Let me start again, Mr. Miller. Hopefully, I 14 won't be interrupted this time. 15 Does any -- 16 MR. KLAYMAN: You are interrupted because the 17 questions are -- are inappropriate and unethical. 18 MR. KRESS: I will just state this on the 19 record. Mr. Miller was not originally identified as a 20 witness. He was -- we objected to him being called at 21 trial. The judge stated that he can only testify at 22 trial if you gave me the opportunity to depose him. 23 MR. KLAYMAN: That's fine. 24 MR. KRESS: If you are interfering with my 25 ability to depose him, then you are further -- it's Case 1:13-cv-20610-CMA Document 127-1 Entered on FLSD Docket 05/27/2014 Page 50 of 243 GEORGE MILLER - 5/23/2014 1-800-325-3376 www.merrillcorp.com/law Merrill Corporation - New York Page 49 1 further prejudicing us. 2 MR. KLAYMAN: No. What's -- what's -- what's 3 improper, Mr. Kress, is that you've asked him a 4 question, and you never asked him a foundation question 5 about whether he made contributions, okay. You are 6 assuming in your question. 7 MR. KRESS: Okay. 8 MR. KLAYMAN: And you are doing that 9 intentionally. 10 MR. KRESS: No, I am not. 11 MR. KLAYMAN: And that's what's unethical. You 12 are doing it intentionally, okay, and it's an improper 13 question. 14 MR. KRESS: It's improper of accusing me 15 unethical conduct. 16 MR. KLAYMAN: Well, then I'm asking that you to 17 stick to what -- what is, you know, what question was is 18 that you are assuming facts that he never testified to, 19 okay. You are putting him in his mouth. Just break the 20 questions down, and you can ask them. 21 BY MR. KRESS: 22 Q Mr. Miller, did you ever refuse to contribute 23 money to Larry Klayman's Florida Obama efforts, legal 24 services, because of anything that you read in 25 Exhibit 14? Case 1:13-cv-20610-CMA Document 127-1 Entered on FLSD Docket 05/27/2014 Page 51 of 243 GEORGE MILLER - 5/23/2014 1-800-325-3376 www.merrillcorp.com/law Merrill Corporation - New York Page 50 1 MR. KLAYMAN: Objection. It assumes facts not 2 testified to. He never said he contributed anything. 3 BY MR. KRESS: 4 Q You can answer the question. 5 A It definitely inhibited me from giving more. I 6 gave him some money prior to that. And, you know, 7 frankly, we had a really heavy heart-to-heart talk after 8 this came out because it really shook my confidence 9 quite a bit. I mean, look at this thing. This is 10 Ruffley -- 11 Q There's no question -- 12 MR. KLAYMAN: Let him answer the question. 13 MR. KRESS: There's no question before -- 14 THE WITNESS: I'd like to read you -- 15 16 (Mr. Klayman, Mr. Kress, and the 17 witness all speaking at the same time.) 18 19 COURT REPORTER: Stop, stop, stop, stop. Stop, 20 stop, stop. Stop. I don't know how many fingers you 21 think I have, but I can't do it. One person at a time. 22 Sorry. Excuse me. I'm talking. If you want this done, 23 if you want me to certify it, you will speak one at a 24 time. Got it? Does everybody understand one at a time? 25 MR. KRESS: We understand. Case 1:13-cv-20610-CMA Document 127-1 Entered on FLSD Docket 05/27/2014 Page 52 of 243 GEORGE MILLER - 5/23/2014 1-800-325-3376 www.merrillcorp.com/law Merrill Corporation - New York Page 51 1 COURT REPORTER: Thank you. 2 MR. KLAYMAN: You asked for it, and he's going 3 to answer. 4 THE WITNESS: This is the most -- 5 6 7 (Mr. Klayman, Mr. Kress, and the 8 witness all speaking at the same time.) 9 10 COURT REPORTER: Stop. You're doing it again. 11 12 (Mr. Klayman, Mr. Kress, and the 13 witness all speaking at the same time.) 14 15 COURT REPORTER: You're doing it again. Stop. 16 Please, stop. There has to be control. There has to be 17 order in this deposition. You have to speak one at a 18 time. That includes the witness. That includes both 19 the attorneys. One at a time. I will not certify this 20 record if you keep talking over each other because I 21 will not be able to get everything. 22 MR. KRESS: Thank you. 23 MR. KLAYMAN: George, just answer the question. 24 THE WITNESS: Okay. May I read you the words 25 that caused me the most angst and did the most damage to Case 1:13-cv-20610-CMA Document 127-1 Entered on FLSD Docket 05/27/2014 Page 53 of 243 GEORGE MILLER - 5/23/2014 1-800-325-3376 www.merrillcorp.com/law Merrill Corporation - New York Page 52 1 our program that you people have just about destroyed. 2 May I do that? 3 BY MR. KRESS: 4 Q Yes. 5 A Thank you. Okay. 6 "Mrs. Ruffley" -- these are Orly 7 Taitz's words in her blog. 8 "Mrs. Ruffley actually advised me that 9 Larry Klayman is not licensed in California" -- 10 which, by the way, is misleading, which I'll explain 11 later. 12 "She told me that he no longer works 13 for Judicial Watch" -- not that he said that he 14 did. 15 -- "and that donors should know about 16 litigation in Ohio" -- which is where the 17 litigation took place on the child support -- 18 -- "where he was convicted" -- 19 Really? Convicted? This was news to me. This 20 was quite a shock. 21 -- "recently of not paying large 22 amount in child support. She provided a lot of 23 information." 24 Really? I wonder what that was. 25 "I will publish only what is a public Case 1:13-cv-20610-CMA Document 127-1 Entered on FLSD Docket 05/27/2014 Page 54 of 243 GEORGE MILLER - 5/23/2014 1-800-325-3376 www.merrillcorp.com/law Merrill Corporation - New York Page 53 1 record. I am not publishing anything that is 2 not in public record." 3 Show me, please, where this is in the public 4 record that your employee, Judicial Watch, the manager 5 of the California thing, who has high visibility, who 6 shows up at public events, who crashes Orly Taitz's 7 session, volunteers this information. Are you kidding? 8 Yes. I'm very concerned, and I'm very angry. You've 9 destroyed our program, and you hurt our nation as well. 10 Any other questions? 11 BY MR. KRESS: 12 Q Are you finished with your answer, Mr. Miller? 13 I have a lot more questions. 14 A Good. Fire away. 15 Q Okay. So you read the paragraph that caused 16 you the most concern, correct? 17 A Correct. 18 Q All right. Do you know whether it was true or 19 false that Larry Klayman was not licensed in California? 20 A I've known that all along. He was supposed to 21 go pro hac vice. We knew that he is licensed to 22 practice in Washington, DC. and Florida. He sent me a 23 copy of his law license before we started this 24 assignment. 25 Q Okay. But just make sure we have it clear on Case 1:13-cv-20610-CMA Document 127-1 Entered on FLSD Docket 05/27/2014 Page 55 of 243 GEORGE MILLER - 5/23/2014 1-800-325-3376 www.merrillcorp.com/law Merrill Corporation - New York Page 54 1 the record, you understood that he was not licensed in 2 California, correct? 3 A I understood that. But the way Orly writes 4 this, it's like he can't even work on the case. She 5 only mentions the facts that were most pertinent, and 6 Mrs. Ruffley as well. 7 Now, why is Mrs. Ruffley making a big deal 8 about the fact that he's not licensed to work in 9 California when he can easily work in California, as 10 attorneys do all over the country, using pro hac vice? 11 It's very, very deceptive on her part, very misleading, 12 especially for someone, who is supposedly a legal expert 13 that works for the world's leading public interest firm, 14 Judicial Watch, which Mr. Klayman founded, by the way. 15 MR. KRESS: Objection. Move to strike as 16 nonresponsive. 17 BY MR. KRESS: 18 Q It was correct that he no longer worked at 19 Judicial Watch, correct? 20 A Correct. 21 Q There was litigation in Ohio, correct? 22 A Correct. 23 Q Prior -- 24 MR. KLAYMAN: Wait a minute. 25 BY MR. KRESS: Case 1:13-cv-20610-CMA Document 127-1 Entered on FLSD Docket 05/27/2014 Page 56 of 243 GEORGE MILLER - 5/23/2014 1-800-325-3376 www.merrillcorp.com/law Merrill Corporation - New York Page 55 1 Q Prior -- 2 MR. KLAYMAN: Objection. It's indefinite as to 3 time as to when he had knowledge. Objection. Move to 4 strike. 5 MR. KRESS: I'm going to follow up on that. 6 MR. KLAYMAN: Go ahead. 7 BY MR. KRESS: 8 Q As of February 23, 2012, did -- were you aware 9 -- well, let me strike that and start over again. 10 Prior to reading this website article, did -- 11 did you know that Larry Klayman was involved in some 12 type of litigation in Ohio related to child support? 13 A I did not know there was litigation. I had 14 heard he was behind on his child support payments. At 15 that time, we asked him. He explained the situation to 16 our satisfaction. I knew nothing about a conviction. I 17 didn't even know that this was a criminal matter. I 18 thought it was a civil matter, actually. 19 Q Okay. So, before the group hired Larry, you 20 knew there was some type of child support issue in Ohio, 21 correct? 22 A I can't remember the exact timing. You know, 23 we did some basic due diligence, and we knew of all 24 kinds of things on the blogs. You know, people attack 25 Larry Klayman all the time. We try to sort out what was Case 1:13-cv-20610-CMA Document 127-1 Entered on FLSD Docket 05/27/2014 Page 57 of 243 GEORGE MILLER - 5/23/2014 1-800-325-3376 www.merrillcorp.com/law Merrill Corporation - New York Page 56 1 true from what was not true. Basically, we concluded 2 that he was behind on his child support payments, and 3 that's due in part that he works for low rent clients 4 like us, and he puts in a lot of time on his own, 5 dedication time. So, to me, that was really, to some 6 extent, uhm, a pro; that this guy is struggling, trying 7 to make ends meet, working on cases like us, trying to 8 help the country. He's not one of these shyster lawyers 9 that charges high prices and profits vastly. This is a 10 cause for him. 11 Q Okay. All right. So, a few things to ask you 12 about what you just said. 13 You, as part of your due diligence, reviewed 14 Larry Klayman's background, correct? 15 A To some extent, yes. 16 Q And you found a lot of things on the web that 17 were, uhm, critical -- 18 MR. KLAYMAN: Objection. 19 BY MR. KRESS: 20 Q -- of Larry Klayman, correct? 21 MR. KLAYMAN: Objection. He never testified to 22 that. Assumes facts not in evidence. 23 MR. KRESS: Let me ask it this way. 24 MR. KLAYMAN: Yes, please, ask it in a 25 different way. Case 1:13-cv-20610-CMA Document 127-1 Entered on FLSD Docket 05/27/2014 Page 58 of 243 GEORGE MILLER - 5/23/2014 1-800-325-3376 www.merrillcorp.com/law Merrill Corporation - New York Page 57 1 BY MR. KRESS: 2 Q Did you find any information during your due 3 diligence regarding Larry Klayman that reflected 4 negatively on Larry Klayman? 5 MR. KLAYMAN: Objection. Relevancy. 6 You can answer. 7 BY MR. KRESS: 8 Q You can answer. 9 A Well, sure. Lots of stuff. He's not exactly 10 popular with the left. He's not exactly popular with 11 government or organizations that are being investigated. 12 He is certainly not popular with Bill Clinton or Barack 13 Obama or any of their minions. 14 Q So, did you read any, for instance, articles 15 that were critical of Larry Klayman? 16 MR. KLAYMAN: Objection. Relevancy. Judge has 17 already ruled the articles are inadmissible. 18 BY MR. KRESS: 19 Q You can answer. 20 A We read various things on blogs. I can't say 21 that we read those particular exhibits that you have in 22 there. They didn't look familiar to me. 23 Q Okay. But you were aware that there was 24 negative press related to Larry Klayman before you -- 25 before you hired him, correct? Case 1:13-cv-20610-CMA Document 127-1 Entered on FLSD Docket 05/27/2014 Page 59 of 243 GEORGE MILLER - 5/23/2014 1-800-325-3376 www.merrillcorp.com/law Merrill Corporation - New York Page 58 1 A Well, yes. Any great man leaves a wake. 2 Q Okay. So, there's some good stuff out there, 3 there's some bad stuff out there, correct? 4 A Correct, yes. 5 Q But you -- 6 MR. KLAYMAN: Objection to using the word good 7 and bad. Vague and ambiguous. And move to strike. 8 BY MR. KRESS: 9 Q Do you understand the words "good" and "bad"? 10 A I have my own understanding. 11 Q I'll withdraw the question. I'll withdraw the 12 question. 13 But you -- you -- you gathered that 14 information, and you sorted through it to determine what 15 was, in your view, true or false, correct? 16 A To some extent, yes. 17 Q Okay. As of -- well, prior to reading Orly 18 Taitz's publication, which was Exhibit 14, did you know 19 that Larry Klayman had been criminally indicted for 20 failure to pay child support? 21 A No. 22 Q Okay. So, prior to this time, prior to reading 23 this, on February 23, 2012, internet blog or article, 24 you thought it was merely a civil matter, correct? 25 A Yes. Case 1:13-cv-20610-CMA Document 127-1 Entered on FLSD Docket 05/27/2014 Page 60 of 243 GEORGE MILLER - 5/23/2014 1-800-325-3376 www.merrillcorp.com/law Merrill Corporation - New York Page 59 1 Q The fact that he was indicted speaks negatively 2 of Mr. Klayman, doesn't it? 3 MR. KLAYMAN: Objection. Facts speak for 4 itself. 5 THE WITNESS: Is a person not innocent until 6 proved guilty anymore? 7 8 (Mr. Klayman speaking at the same 9 time as witness.) 10 11 BY MR. KRESS: 12 Q You mentioned that you thought it was only a 13 civil matter. You didn't know it was a criminal matter. 14 MR. KLAYMAN: Objection. Compound question. 15 You can answer, George. 16 BY MR. KRESS: 17 Q I'll withdraw the question because you've 18 already said it. 19 A I've already said it. 20 Q Okay. And in fact, if we go down back to 21 Exhibit 14 and read further on, couple paragraphs down, 22 it states: 23 "Larry" -- 24 MR. KLAYMAN: Paragraph 14 of what? 25 MR. KRESS: Exhibit 14. Case 1:13-cv-20610-CMA Document 127-1 Entered on FLSD Docket 05/27/2014 Page 61 of 243 GEORGE MILLER - 5/23/2014 1-800-325-3376 www.merrillcorp.com/law Merrill Corporation - New York Page 60 1 MR. KLAYMAN: Okay. 2 MR. KRESS: The last full paragraph on the 3 third -- well, what I'm showing as the second page of 4 the article. 5 MR. KLAYMAN: All right. 6 BY MR. KRESS: 7 Q And it states -- 8 MR. KLAYMAN: Let me make an objection. The 9 document speaks for itself. 10 MR. KRESS: Okay. I haven't asked a question 11 yet. 12 MR. KLAYMAN: I know the way you ask questions, 13 Mr. Kress. I'm just trying to get an objection, so you 14 can ask the question in a correct way. 15 BY MR. KRESS: 16 Q The last paragraph states: 17 "Larry Klayman, 60, of Los Angeles, 18 California was indicted on two counts of 19 criminal nonsupport. He owes $78,861.76 for 20 his two children, ages of 11 and 14. Two 21 hearings were held in domestic relations court 22 between 2009 and 2010. The last voluntary 23 payment was made on August 30, 2011, in the 24 amount of $1,014.26. Arraignment is scheduled 25 for February 7, 2012." Case 1:13-cv-20610-CMA Document 127-1 Entered on FLSD Docket 05/27/2014 Page 62 of 243 GEORGE MILLER - 5/23/2014 1-800-325-3376 www.merrillcorp.com/law Merrill Corporation - New York Page 61 1 Prior to reading Orly Taitz's posting, were you 2 aware of the information that I just read to you? 3 A I don't remember the exact amount. All I 4 remember is he was substantially behind in child 5 support, and I did not know it was a criminal thing. I 6 did not know he was indicted. I certainly didn't know 7 he had been convicted because he wasn't. A little bit 8 of misinformation there, yes? 9 Q So, Mr. Miller, going back to where I was -- 10 how much money did you contribute to Larry Klayman's 11 efforts in the Florida Obama litigation? 12 MR. KLAYMAN: Objection. That's leading, and 13 it doesn't ask the foundation question, Mr. Kress. I 14 can only assume, because you keep doing this, that you 15 are doing it intensionally. And that's why -- that's 16 why I consider this to be unethical because I don't mean 17 to be abrasive, but you know what to do. You are an 18 experienced lawyer. You've been a lawyer for a long 19 time. Ask the foundation question. Don't ask questions 20 that assume facts that are not in evidence. 21 BY MR. KRESS: 22 Q Mr. Miller, didn't you already tell us that you 23 contributed money to Larry Klayman's Florida Obama 24 Challenge efforts? 25 A Yes. Case 1:13-cv-20610-CMA Document 127-1 Entered on FLSD Docket 05/27/2014 Page 63 of 243 GEORGE MILLER - 5/23/2014 1-800-325-3376 www.merrillcorp.com/law Merrill Corporation - New York Page 62 1 Q How much? 2 A I did a contribution of a thousand, and I think 3 I did more, too. I can't remember the exact amount 4 anymore. It was over a thousand dollars from my 5 personal funds. 6 Q Okay. Thank you. 7 Do you believe that you, personally -- well, 8 let me ask it this way. Let me back up. 9 Did you ever, personally, make a decision to 10 refuse to contribute any funds to Larry Klayman's 11 Florida Obama Challenge as a result of reading that 12 paragraph that concerned you? 13 A I was certainly more inhibited. I mean, 14 there's a number of factors that go into making a 15 donation, like how much money you have, how strongly you 16 feel about the cause, how likely this is to succeed, and 17 all those other things. But that did make me less 18 likely to contribute more money, yes. 19 Q Okay. Did you ever make a conscious decision 20 to say, "I'm not going to contribute money because I 21 read on this internet blog that Mr. Klayman had been 22 convicted"? 23 MR. KLAYMAN: Objection. Relevancy. 24 You can answer. 25 THE WITNESS: I -- I don't -- I don't know. I Case 1:13-cv-20610-CMA Document 127-1 Entered on FLSD Docket 05/27/2014 Page 64 of 243 GEORGE MILLER - 5/23/2014 1-800-325-3376 www.merrillcorp.com/law Merrill Corporation - New York Page 63 1 know it was definitely a factor, but I can't tell you 2 exactly how that weighed with everything else, but it 3 was a negative factor for sure as it was for hundreds, 4 if not thousands, of other people probably. 5 BY MR. KRESS: 6 Q Okay. What other factors led to your decisions 7 regarding whether or not to -- well, let me ask it this 8 way. You said you contributed a thousand, maybe a 9 little bit more. 10 A Yes. 11 Q What other factors led to your decision not to 12 contribute more? 13 A I already told you that. 14 MR. KLAYMAN: Objection. Assumes facts not in 15 evidence. He didn't -- he hasn't testify to that. 16 BY MR. KRESS: 17 Q Well, you mentioned that you considered a lot 18 of factors, and this -- this internet article was 19 something that inhibited you. 20 A Yes. 21 Q What other factors did you consider? 22 A I thought I told you that already. Should I do 23 it again? 24 Q I didn't hear that. So, if you could, please. 25 A Okay. I mentioned when you -- when you Case 1:13-cv-20610-CMA Document 127-1 Entered on FLSD Docket 05/27/2014 Page 65 of 243 GEORGE MILLER - 5/23/2014 1-800-325-3376 www.merrillcorp.com/law Merrill Corporation - New York Page 64 1 contribute to a cause, you ask a lot of questions, like 2 how strongly you feel about the cause, how righteous is 3 it, how likely is it to succeed, how competent are the 4 people doing it, what are the opposition. Those are all 5 factors. 6 This is obviously a very big one and, you know, 7 based on the reaction we had from potential donors and 8 the public, in general, this was a disaster. It dried 9 up our funds. It hurt our credibility very badly, and 10 it was worse by the fact that it came from the very 11 organization that he founded. Kind of like, "Et tu, 12 Brutus." 13 This was just terrible when it happened. You 14 just -- it was -- everyone was kind of moping around, 15 and we tried to figure out how to react to it. I 16 finally wrote that open letter to Taitz to try to get 17 out to the public what the situation was; that these 18 weren't accurate charges, really, and also, they were 19 very colored. 20 It's interesting that she mentioned about -- 21 she mentioned about the child support, but she never 22 said a thing about the Hartman decision and the fact 23 that the divorce was actually done in Virginia, 24 originally, not in Ohio at all. And that the judge 25 probably did something illegal in that ruling. So, she Case 1:13-cv-20610-CMA Document 127-1 Entered on FLSD Docket 05/27/2014 Page