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Interview With President Barack Obama Interviewed by Steve Inskeep
Interview With President Barack Obama Interviewed by Steve Inskeep
Interview With President Barack Obama Interviewed by Steve Inskeep
Interviewwith
PresidentBarackObama
Interviewedby
SteveInskeep
Date:Wednesday,May28,2014
Transcriptby
FederalNewsService
Washington,D.C.
MR.INSKEEP:Iwanttobeginthisway.Yourehereatthishistoricplace,tryingtospeakwitha
senseofhistory.AndIwasthinkingofpastpresidentsthatIknowyouhavestudiedandcommented
on.Andacouplecametomindwhowereabletoexpresswhattheyweretryingtodointheworldin
aboutasentence.Reaganwantedtorollbackcommunismbywhatevermeans.Lincolnhasafamous
letterinwhichhesays,IwouldsavetheunionbytheshortestmeansundertheConstitution.Asyou
lookatthemomentofhistorythatyouoccupy,doyouthinkyoucanputintoasentencewhatyouare
tryingtoaccomplishintheworld?
PRESIDENTOBAMA:ImnotsureIcandoitinasentencebecausewerefortunateinmanyways.
Wedontfaceanexistentialcrisis.Wedontfaceacivilwar.WedontfaceaSovietUnionthatis
tryingtorallyablocofcountriesandthatcouldthreatenourwayoflife.Instead,whatwehaveis,asI
sayinthespeech,thismomentinwhichweareincrediblyfortunatetohaveastrongeconomythatis
gettingstronger,nomilitarypeerthatthreatensus,nonationstatethatanytimesoonintendstogotowar
withus.Butwehaveaworldorderthatischangingveryrapidlyandthatcangeneratediffusethreats,
allofwhichwehavetodealwith.
AndIthinkthatthemostimportantpointofthespeechtodayformeishowwedefineAmerican
leadershipinpartisthroughourmilitarymight,butonlyinpart,thatAmericanleadershipinthe
21
st
centuryisgoingtoinvolveourcapacitytobuildinternationalinstitutions,coalitionsthatcanact
effectively,andthepromotionofnorms,rules,laws,idealsandvaluesthatcreategreaterprosperityand
peace,notjustinourownborders,butoutsideaswell.
MR.INSKEEP:IsyoursentencethenpursuingU.S.interestsabroadwithoutgoingtowar?
PRESIDENTOBAMA:Well,therearegoingtobetimeswherewemighthavetogotowar.And
thatswhyIthinkitsveryimportantforusnottogetintothesesimplisticwaysofthinkingaboutit,
eitherwepullbackentirelyandwereisolationist,oralternatively,everyproblemaroundtheworldis
ourstomanage.Rather,youknow,whatwehavetodoisclearlydefinewhereisitinournational
intereststousemilitaryforce,sometimesunilaterally.Andtypicallywhenwehavedirectinterests,core
interests,oursafety,oursecurity,ourlivelihoods,theprotectionofourallies,youknow,international
opinionmatters,butwemayhavetoactonourown.
Whenitcomestothekindsofissues,though,thatdominatetheheadlinesaconflictinSyria,aRussian
incursionintoUkraine,thekidnappingof200younggirlsinNigeriainthosecircumstances,weare
goingtobemosteffectivewhenweuseawiderangeoftoolsdiplomacy,sanctions,appealsto
internationallaw.Insomecases,ajudicioususeofmilitaryforcemaymakesense.Butinthose
circumstances,ithastobeinamultilateralsystemwhereothercountriesareparticipating,wearenot
goingalone,becausewhenwemakesurethatothercountriesareparticipating,thatmeansthatweve
doneourhomework,wevethoughtthroughtheconsequences,wevebuiltlegitimacy,andwerenot
carryingtheburdenentirelyonourown.
MR.INSKEEP:WhatshouldleaderslikeSyriasBasharalAssadorRussiasVladimirPutintake
awayfromthisspeech,inwhichyoudidspeakpassionatelyaboutnotgoingtowarunnecessarilyand
saidyouwerehauntedbythedeathsofAmericansoldiers?
PRESIDENTOBAMA:Well,Ithinktheycantakeawayfromitthattheyhavetobeonguardwhen
theyactoutsideofinternationalnorms,thatwearegoingtopushaggressivelyagainstthem.Werenot
alwaysgoingtopushusingmilitaryactionsinitially.Theremaybecircumstancesinwhichwemobilizein
theinternationalcommunitytotakeinternationalaction.
ButasIspokeabout,whenyoulookateventsinUkraineoverthelasttwomonths,thereisnodoubt
thatourabilitytomobilizeinternationalopinionrapidlyhaschangedthebalanceandtheequationin
Ukraine.IjustspokeyesterdaytothenewlyelectedpresidentofUkraine.Mr.Putinhasjust
announcedthatheismovinghistroopsbackfromthebordersofUkraine.Andthatsanapplicationof
Americanleadershipthatissustainable,consistentandismostlikelytoproducethekindsofresultswe
want.
MR.INSKEEP:ItsinterestingaboutUkraine,though,Mr.President,becausealotofanalystshave
lookedatthatsituationandsaidthisisanareawherePutinmayhavehadaweakhand,buthegained.
HegainedCrimea.HeassertedhisinfluenceoverUkraine.
YouspeakofUkraine,though,asasuccess.Doyoufeelthatyouvebeensuccessfulinachievingyour
aims?
PRESIDENTOBAMA:Youknow,IthinkitsamistaketothinkthatsomehowMr.Putinreflected
strengthinthissituation.UkraineisnotjustnextdoortoRussia.Ukraine,inthemindsofmost
Russians,hasbeenacentralpartofRussiafordecades,forcenturies.AndfromMr.Putins
perspective,hewasoperatingfromapositionofweakness.Hefeltasifhewasbeingfurtherand
furthersurroundedbyNATOmembers,folkswhoarelookingwesteconomically,fromasecurity
perspective.AndeveninUkraine,thecrownjeweloftheformerSovietsystem,outsideofRussia,a
oligarchythatwascorruptwasrejectedbypeopleonthestreets.Andsowhatyousawwasa
scrambling,areactiontopeopleintheUkrainesaying,wewantadifferentwayoflife.
ThefactthatCrimea,whichhistoricallyisdominatedbynativeRussiansandRussianspeakers,was
annexedillegallydoesnotinanywaynegatethefactthatthewayoflife,thesystemsofeconomic
organization,thenotionsofruleoflaw,thosevaluesthatweholddear,areascendant,andyouknow,
theothersideisgoingtobeonthedefense.
ThatdoesntmeanthatwethinkthatUkraineshouldnthaveagoodrelationshipwithRussia.Wethink
itshould.AndIhavesaiddirectlytoMr.Putinwewant,ultimately,Ukrainianstomakeadecision
abouttheirownfutures,andthat,Iassume,willincludestrongrelationswithRussiaaswellaswith
Europe.
MR.INSKEEP:YouregoingtomakeRussiagiveCrimeaback.Doyouhavetheabilityorthe
leveragetodothat?
PRESIDENTOBAMA:Well,youknow,Ithinkweregoingtohavetoseehowitplaysitselfout.Im
goingtoseeMr.Poroshenko,thenewlyelectedpresidentofCrimeaornewlyelectedpresidentof
Ukraine,nextweek,andImsurethatllbeatopicofdiscussion.
MR.INSKEEP:LetmeaskaboutSyria,Mr.President.WhiteHouseofficialshavesaidthatyouare
reviewingthepossibilityofmilitarytrainingforSyrianrebels.Therehasbeen,itssaid,limitedtraining
byintelligenceagenciesuptonow.
Thisseemstofitwithsomethingyoudescribedinyourspeechwhenyoutalkedabouta$5billion
counterterrorismfund,whichwouldaffectplacesincludingSyria.Idliketounderstandwhatyouthink
haschangedinSyriawhat,ifanything,isdifferentaboutthesituationinSyria,asopposedtoacouple
ofyearsago,whensomeofyouradviserswantedlargerscaletrainingoftherebels,andIbelieveyou
declined.
PRESIDENTOBAMA:Well,Ithinkthatsnotanaccurateportrayalofeitherwhatwehavedoneor
whatthedebatesbeenabout.
MR.INSKEEP:OK.
PRESIDENTOBAMA:TheissuehasalwaysbeeninSyriahowdowemosteffectivelysupporta
moderateopposition,recognizingthattherearegoingtobelimitstohowrapidlywecanrampupthe
capacityofthatopposition.Andwhatwedontwanttodoissetfolksupforfailure.Whatwedont
wanttodoismakepromisesthatwecannotkeep.
Icantspeaktoalltheworkthathasbeendonewithrespecttoboththepoliticaloppositionaswellas
thearmedoppositionthatarefightingagainstMr.Assad,butIthinkitsbeenstatedpubliclywehave
beensupportingthem.
Ultimately,IdidnotthinkthenandIstilldonotbelievethatAmericanmilitaryactionscanresolvewhat
isincreasinglyasectariancivilwar,andIalsobelievethat,ultimately,theonlywayyouregoingtogeta
resolutionthatworksfortheSyrianpeopleandtheregionisgoingtoisgoingtorequiresomesortof
politicalaccommodationbetweenthevariousgroupsthere.
ButwhatwecandoistoworkwiththeneighborsintheregionJordan,Turkey,theGulfstates,
LebanontodealwiththerefugeeflowsthatarecomingoutofSyria,todealwiththehumanitarian
crisisthatexiststhereandtobuildontheframework,theprogressthatwehavemadeoverthelast
coupleofyears.WeveseensomesuccessintheSyrianoppositiongainingmorecapacity,gaining
moretraining,gainingmoreeffectiveness,andbuildingonsomeofthatsuccess,itisconceivablethatin
combinationwiththeotherworkthatisdoneonthediplomaticfront,thatwereabletotipwhat
happensinSyriasothatitsmorelikelythatwecanarriveatapoliticalresolution.
MR.INSKEEP:Areconditionsbetternow,then,foramorerobustaidingoftherebelsandtrainingof
therebelsthaninthepast?
PRESIDENTOBAMA:Well,Iwouldntsaytheconditionsarebetter.Ithink,inmanyways,the
conditionsareworse.Butthecapacityofsomeoftheoppositionisbetterthanitwasbefore,whichis
understandable.
Thinkthinkaboutwhothisoppositionis.Themoderateopposition,asopposedtothejihadiststhat
haveseenthechaosthereasanopportunitytogainafoothold,thosearehardenedfighters.Whenyou
talkaboutthemoderateopposition,manyofthesepeoplewerefarmersordentistsormaybesome
radioreporterswhodidnthavealotofexperiencefighting.Whattheyunderstoodwas,isthattheyhad
agovernmentthatwaskillingitsownpeopleandviolatinghumanrightsin,inthemostprofoundway,
andtheywantedtodosomethingaboutit.
Butcreatingacapacityforthemtoholdground,tobeabletorebuffviciousattacks,forthemtobeable
toalsoorganizethemselvesinwaysthatarecohesive,allthattakes,unfortunately,moretimethanIthink
manypeoplewouldlike.
MR.INSKEEP:IwanttoaskaboutChina,Mr.PresidentEastAsiamorebroadly.Yourecently
visitedthere.YouworkedtoreassureU.S.alliesintheregion.Itsunderstood,ofcourse,theU.S.has
specificcommitmentsforexample,todefendJapan
PRESIDENTOBAMA:Right.
MR.INSKEEP:whenJapanattacked.IdliketoknowifyouhavealargerobjectiveinEastAsia.
DoestheUnitedStateshaveaninterestbeyonditsspecificalliancesinpreventingChinafrom
dominatingEastAsiaandthewatersaroundEastAsia,whereChinasbeenmakingsomeaggressive
moves?
PRESIDENTOBAMA:Well,wedonothaveaninterestinstoppingChinafrombecomingsuccessful.
ChinaisthemostpopulouscountryonEarth,atsome
MR.INSKEEP:ButImaskingtheirpower,nottheirsuccess.
PRESIDENTOBAMA:No,Iwell,Iunderstand.Butatsomelevel,theyregoingtobeabigdogin
thatneighborhood,andwewelcomeChinaspeacefulrise.Inmanyways,itwouldbeabiggernational
securityproblemforusifChinastartedfallingapartattheseams.SowewewanttheChinesepeople
tosteadilyhaveahigherstandardofliving,wewantChinatohaveincreasedcapacitytoparticipatein
internationaleffortsaroundissueslikeclimatechange.
WehaveaveryspecificconcernwhenChinaisnotfollowingbasicinternationalnorms,basicrulesof
theroad,whereitdoesnotfeelboundbythekindofinternationalpracticesthathavehelpedto
underwriteChinasrise.Imean,partofthereasonChinasbeensuccessfulistheresbeenrelative
peaceinAsia,therehasbeenfreedomofcommerceinAsia,freedomofnavigationinAsia.Allthat
facilitatesthetradethatiscreatinggreatwealthinsideofChina.Well,ifinfactthatinternationalorder
hasbenefitedChina,thenweexpectChinatohelpupholdtheveryrulesthathavemadethem
successful,nottakeadvantageofthem.
Andsotherearebasicprinciplesthatbigcountriesdontjustpushlittlecountriesaroundbyvirtueof
size.Therearemechanismswhereby,throughinternationallaw,maritimedisputescanberesolved.
Andwhatwehavedonethenisworkedwiththecountriesoftheregiontosayletscreateacodeof
conductthatinwhich,withouttakinganypositiononwhetherthisparticularrockinthemiddleofthe
waterbelongstothispartyorthatparty,letsfindasystematic,legalwayforustoresolvethese
disputeswithoutresolvingtoconflict.
AndsotojustthebottomlinehereisChinaisgoingtobeadominantpowerinAsia,nottheonlyone,
butbyvirtueofitssizeanditswealth,itisgoingtobeagreatpowerinAsia.Werespectthat.And
werenotinterestedincontainingitbecauseweareinanywayintimidatedbyChinawereconcerned
aboutitbecausewedontwanttoseeconstantconflictsdevelopinginavitalregionoftheworldthat
also,youknow,wedependonintermsofoureconomybeingsuccessfulyouknow,thosearealotof
marketsoutthere,wesellalotofgoodsoutthere,and,youknow,wedontwanttoseethese
conflagrationsthatcanendupimpeding,youknow,ourowninterests.
MR.INSKEEP:Soundslikeyouwanttoavoidtripwireoveranyparticularrockintheocean,asyou
said.
PRESIDENTOBAMA:Well,youknow,Ithink,morethanthat,whatwealsowantistobeableto
strengthenandconstantlyreinforceinternationalnormsbecausewebelieve,Ibelieve,thatAmerica
benefitswhenthosenormsarenotonlybeingupheldbyusindividuallybutwhereallcountriesbuyin,
wherethereisasensethatallofusbenefitfromsomebasicrulesoftheroad.AndChinanowasa
risingpowerneedstobepartofthatresponsibilityofmaintainingrulesthatmaintainpeaceandsecurity
foralotofcountries.
MR.INSKEEP:Youvemadesomestatementsrecently,Mr.President,thatitseemsyouvebeen
tryingtoputyourselfinahistoricalcontext,ifyoucan.Youvetalkedabouthittingsinglesanddoubles
onforeignpolicy.Youtalkedabouthandingabatonfromonepresidentoronepersoninhistoryto
another.Iwonderifyoureatapointinyoursecondtermwhereeventhoughthereiswellovertwo
yearstogo,thatyouhavetothinkaboutnarrowingpossibilitiesandamorelimitedlistofthingsthatyou
canrealisticallyaccomplishinthetimeyouhaveleft.
PRESIDENTOBAMA:Well,Ithinkthatsalwaysbeenthecase.Thatwasthecasethefirstdayin
theOvalOffice.Youknow,youdontwalkintothepresidencyandcompletelyremaketheworldand
ignorehistoryandignoretheproblemsthatarealreadysittingthereintheinbox.Soyouhavetomake
choicesaboutwhatsimportantandwhatsnot.
Itsinteresting,though,youknow,thecommentImadeaboutsinglesanddoublesIthinkisisonlya
partialquote.WhatIsaidwasthatwhenitcomestoforeignpolicy,thatoftentimestheUnitedStates
hasmademistakesnotbyshowingtoomuchrestraintbutbyunderestimatinghowchallengingthe
environmentisoutthere,notthinkingthroughconsequences,thatthereisalotofblockingandtackling
toforeignpolicy,tochangesportsmetaphors,or,ifyouwanttosticktobaseball,thatalotofwhatyou
wanttodoistoadvancetheballonhumanrights,advancetheballonnationalsecurity,advancetheball
onenergyindependence,toputtheballinplay.
Andeveryonceinawhile,apitchisgoingtocomerightoverhomeplatethatyoucanknockoutfora
homerun.Butyoudontswingateverypitch.Andwehaveopportunitiesrightnow,forexample,and
Italkedabouttoday,toadvanceaIranianagreementontheirnuclearprogramthatcouldbehistoric.
Wemaynotgetit,buttheresachancethatitcouldstillhappen.Ihavenotyetgivenuponthe
possibilitythatbothIsraelisandPalestinianscanseetheirselfinterestinapeacedealthatwouldprovide
IsraelsecuritythatsrecognizedbyitsneighborsandmakesurethatPalestinianshaveastateoftheir
own.
Sotherearegoingtocontinuetobeopportunitiesthatcomeup.Andwhatwewanttodoismakesure
wereinapositiontoseizethoseopportunitieswhentheyarise.Butinthemeantime,theworkthatwe
dotohelpcountriesinNorthAfricasecuretheirbordersandrootoutterrorism,theworkthatwedoto,
youknow,makesurethatwehavehigherstandardsforlaborprotectionandenvironmentalprotection
whenitcomestotradeinAsia,theworkthatwedoinmakingsurethatyoungpeopleinLatinAmerica
arecomingtotheUnitedStatestostudythroughexchangeprogramssothatandthatU.S.students
areabletogotothosecountriestodevelopthecommercialtiesandculturaltiesintheWestern
Hemisphere,youknow,thatstuffsnotsexy.Itsnotgoingtobeonthefrontpageofthenewspapers.
Butinmanyways,thatswhatsgoingtoultimatelybemosteffective,thatsgoingtobewhatsgoingto
mostdeterminewhetherornottheUnitedStatesretainsitsprimacyanditsleadershipontheworld
stageinthe21
st
century.
MR.INSKEEP:Letmeaskaboutoneballyouvetriedtoadvanceyourentireterm.Youwantedto
closeGuantanamoinyourfirstyear.Aboutayearagoyougaveaspeechinwhichyousaidyou
wantedtocloseGuantanamo.YoureferredtoitagaininthisspeechhereatWestPoint.
PRESIDENTOBAMA:Justchippingawayatit.
MR.INSKEEP:IntheyearsinceyourlastspeechinwhichyousaidyouwantedtocloseGuantanamo,
itsourunderstandingthatonly12about12prisonershavebeensentbacktotheirhomecountries,
repatriated.Thevastmajorityarestillthere.Hasthatproblemprovedtobesodifficulttheresagood
chanceyoumayhandGuantanamooveryoursuccessor?
PRESIDENTOBAMA:NotifIcanhelpit.IthinkitisveryimportantforustocloseGuantanamo.I
thinkitisveryimportantasweendthewarthatoriginallygavegavelifetoGuantanamothatwenow
winditdown.
MR.INSKEEP:Couldyounotsendmoreprisonersbacknow?Isthatnotpossible?
PRESIDENTOBAMA:Well,theyouknow,Congresshasplacedsomerestraintsonus.And
MR.INSKEEP:Buttheyveloosenedthoserestraints.
PRESIDENTOBAMA:Well,Iunderstand.AndIpromiseyouthatwereusingeverypossible
availableavenue.Insomecases,itshardtoreturnprisonersbecausethecountrieswheretheycome
fromdontwantthemorcantprovideusassurancesthattheycancontrolthem.Itisahardproblem.
Itsatoughlegalproblem.Itsatoughsecurityproblem.
ButwhatIknowisthatwecannotingoodconsciencemaintainasystemofindefinitedetentioninwhich
individualswhohavenotbeentriedandconvictedareheldpermanentlyinthislegallimbooutsideofthis
country.ThatiscontrarytoU.S.traditions.Itfeedsterroristpropaganda.Itisnotultimatelygoingto
beeffectivewhenitcomestodealingwiththelongtermterroristthreat.Itmakesitharderforustoget
cooperationfromourpartners.
Anditiswildlyexpensive.Imean,wespend10,15timesmore,inmanycases,fortheseprisonersthan
wewoulddoinanormalsupermaxsystprisoninourfederalsystem.Soforallkindsofreasons,it
doesntmakesense.
AndImgoingtokeeponpushingbecauseIwanttomakesurethatwhenIturnthekeysovertothe
nextpresident,thattheyhavetheability,thatheorshehasthecapacitytotomakesomedecisions
witharelativelycleanslate.ClosingGuantanamoisone.Makingsurethatwehavetherightlegal
architectureforhowweconductcounterterrorismandthattheresgreatertransparency,asIdiscussed
today,thatsanother.Makingsurethatpeoplehaveasensethatwhenweusedrones,wedoso
lawfullyinawaythatavoidsciviliancasualtiesandinwaysthatareappropriate.Makingsurethatour
nationalsecurityapparatusishas,youknow,enoughlegalchecksandbalancesthatordinaryfolks,
notjusthereintheUnitedStatesbutaroundtheworld,canfeelassuredthattheirprivacyisbeing
respected.
Youknow,theseareallpartsofwhatIconsideraamajorpieceofbusinessduringmypresidency,
whichisrecognizingwevegotveryrealthreatsoutthereandwecantbenaveaboutprotecting
ourselvesfromthosethreats.Attimesweregoingtohavetotakeverytoughactionstomakesurethat
ourpeople,ourchildrenareprotected,butthattheresawayofdoingitthatcomportswithourlaws,
ourvalues,ourideals,thatgainslegitimacyaroundtheworldandthatisthereforesustainable.
And,youknow,werenotdoneyet,butwevemadeenormousprogress,inthesamewaythatweve
reducedthenumberofpeopleinGuantanamobyhalf,inthesamewaythatwerestartingtoconstrain
someoftheotherworkthatwevedoneinthisarea.ImconfidentthatbythetimeImleavingthe
presidency,thenextpresidentwillstillhavesometoughchoicestomake,butIthinktheyllhaveabasis
formakingthemthatisconsistentwithourbesttraditions.
MR.INSKEEP:Mr.President,thanksverymuch.
PRESIDENTOBAMA:Ienjoyedit.Thankyou.
(END)