LETS TALK BITCOIN

Episode 116 ... and a Great Chain of Numbers with Tim

Swanson
Participants:
Adam B. Levine (ABL) Host
Andreas M. Antonopo!os (AA) Co"#ost
Step#anie Mrp#$ (SM) Co"#ost
Tim S%anson (TS) At#or o& '(reat C#ain o& Nm)ers and e*onomist
Toda$ is +ne ,
t#
-./0 and t#is is Episode //1.
This program is intended for informationa and educationa purposes on!.
Cr!ptocurrenc! is a new fied of stud!. Consut !our oca futurist" aw!er and
in#estment ad#isor before ma$ing an! decisions whatsoe#er for !oursef.
%&': 2e!*ome to Lets Ta!3 Bit*oin4 a t%i*e %ee3!$ s#o% a)ot t#e ideas4 peop!e and
pro5e*ts )i!din6 t#e di6ita! e*onom$ and t#e &tre o& mone$. M$ name is Adam B. Levine
and toda$4 %eve 6ot a treat. Tim S%anson is a resear*#er4 o)server4 at#or4 &trist and
s*epti*. Toda$4 Step#anie Mrp#$ and I sit in )t t#is s#o% is a)ot t#e %or!d a**ordin6 to
Tim. Lets 6et started. 7.8019
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
TS: Hi 6$s4 its 6reat to )e #ere. M$ name is Tim S%anson. I %rote a )oo3 *a!!ed '(reat
C#ain o& Nm)ers t#an3s to t#e *ommnit$. T#ro6#ot t#is pod*ast4 Im sre I!! #ave
some *riti*ism o& *ertain aspe*ts o& t#is spa*e4 )t Id !i3e t#e !isteners to 3no% t#at I rea!!$
t#in3 t#is te*#no!o6$s 6reat4 its %or!d *#an6in6 and4 despite m$ *riti*ism4 I t#in3 t#e %or!d
o& t#ese peop!e and I dont %ant t#is *riti*ism or s*epti*ism I #ave to re&!e*t on t#e peop!e
t#at Ive ;oted in t#e past. T#eir opinions are *omp!ete!$ not s#ared %it# mine. T#e$
%o!d disa6ree. I 5st %anted to sa$ t#at p &ront. Ive )een dis*ssin6 t#is isse %it#
+onat#an Levin at Coinometri*s and <o)ert Sams %#o is at Cr$ptonomi*s. He is t#e &onder
o& Cr$ptonomi*s. Cr$ptonomi*s is a %e)site #e #as and #e %as an interest rate #ed6e &nd
trader &or a)ot // $ears. T#e isse is t#is does t#e Bit*oin net%or3 re%ard proportiona!!$
re%ard t#e proo&"o&"%or3 t#at is 6oin6 into ever$ se*ond or %#atever... t#e #as# rate... does
t#at a*ta!!$ proportiona!!$ re%ard and se*re t#e net%or3 at t#e same time= Ho%
Co!ored*oins is an a%esome idea )t it t#ro%s a %ren*# into t#is s$stem. I *an e>p!ain #o%.
7-8.?9
%&': Im *rios... I mean4 a6ain4 t#ere are !ots o& di&&erent... it seems !i3e %#en $o )i!d
on top o& a )!o*3*#ain t#at doesnt #ave %#at $ore tr$in6 to do4 &ndamenta!!$ )a3ed into
its *ore me*#anism4 t#at t#is sort o& t#in6 is 3ind o& inevita)!e is t#at $ore tradin6 not
#avin6 to reinvent t#e %#ee!4 $ore not #avin6 to *reate $or o%n Bit*oin or !an*# $or
o%n *#ain and do a!! t#e minin6 and st&& )t4 in e>*#an6e &or t#at4 t#ere are disadvanta6es.
T#ats t#is4 ri6#t= 7-8@-9
TS: E>a*t!$. I #ate to se it )t $ore 3ind o& &ree"ridin6 i& $ore sin6 t#ese #a*3s. I #ate
to *a!! t#em #a*3sA t#e$re )eati&!. Conterpart$ %as a)!e to t#ro% it in )t4 in a sense4 its
not a )i6 dea! toda$ or tomorro% or even t#is $ear4 )t &or e>amp!e4 i& $o #ave a *o!or or a
&inan*ia! instrment t#ats %ort# t%i*e as m*# as t#e Bit*oin net%or3 itse!&4 t#en it *reates
an e*onomi* in*entive to *reate a B/C atta*3 to do)!e"spend t#at4 %#atever t#at portion is.
A6ain4 its not isse t#ats toda$ )t its an isse t#at *o!d )e do%n t#e road i& t#ese
instrments ta3e o&&. 7@8.19
%&': T#e )asi* premise #ere is t#at it doesnt matter no% )t i& %e )i!d on t#is &ondation4
t#en %e!! #ave pro)!ems in t#e &tre4 i& t#is s**eeds. I& it doesnt s**eed4 t#en it %ont
matter= 7@8/19
TS: <i6#t. It sonds a )it pessimisti* )t $ea#4 t#ats prett$ m*# t#e 6ist o& it. 7@8/?9
%&': 2e!! no. Im tr$in6 to smmariDe )e*ase Im tr$in6 to nderstand %#at t#e )asis is
#ere. It #as seemed to me4 &rom %at*#in6 t#e Bit*oin spa*e t#at4 in pra*ti*e4 %#at #appens is
t#at as %e 6et *!ose to somet#in6 t#at %i!! )e a pro)!em or t#at peop!e per*eive to )e a
pro)!em4 and t#is seems !i3e its &air!$ o)vios!$ %o!d )e an o)vios pro)!em and )e
)o66in6 do%n t#e net%or3 and t#ered )e isses4 t#at peop!e &rea3 ot and overrea*t and start
6oin6 in a !ot o& di&&erent dire*tions tr$in6 to so!ve t#e pro)!em. 2eve seen t#is %it# t#e
)!o*3 siDe and ot#er st&&. (avin Andresen 6ave a state o& Bit*oin4 )asi*a!!$4 at t#e
Amsterdam *on&eren*e. In t#at4 #e )asi*a!!$ ta!3ed a)ot #o% #e t#in3s t#at t#e )!o*3 siDe
!imit is 6oin6 to #ave to 6o a%a$. T#ese pro)!ems are %or3in6 t#emse!ves ot. T#ere #as to
)e r6en*$ )e*ase t#ere is so m*# st&& to &i>. 708..9
TS: One o& t#e so!tions t#at *o!d e>ist in t#e &tre &or t#is %o!d )e side *#ains. A6ain4
Im not ne*essari!$ endorsin6 an$ side *#ain pro5e*t )t t#e idea is $o #ave t#is
transa*tiona! *rren*$ t#ats pe66ed and $o *an move )a*3 and &ort# in a t%o"%a$. Eo
intervie%ed Astin and Adam a)ot t#is. T#at is one possi)!e so!tion and a6ain4 its &art#er
do%n t#e road. Ive ta!3ed to 7A!e> Mersai4 t#e Co*omo=9 %a!!et 6$ and #e sa$s $es4 #e
re*o6niDes t#is in*entive to atta*3. In &a*t4 I #ave t#is arti*!e %ritten a)ot it %#i*# *ame ot
$esterda$. T#e ana!o6$ I se is4 it %o!d )e !i3e #avin6 Fa! B!art4 t#at rent"a"*op4 standin6
in &ront o& t#e va!t and not 5st standin6 in &ront o& t#e va!t )t standin6 in &ront o& a!! t#e
#o!din6s o& Gort Kno> on a &ie!d. Sre4 #e mi6#t )e a)!e to *at*# one or t%o *at )r6!ars4 or
somet#in6 !i3e t#at )t i& t#ere is an or6aniDed *rimina! enterprise4 t#ats done t#e
*a!*!ations4 t#e$!! &i6re ot He$4 t#eres a parti*!ar *o!or t#at *an )e do)!e"spent and
its %ort# t#e e&&ort to do so. A6ain4 $o #ave to #ave smart *rimina!s )t t#ere are
potentia!!$ smart *rimina!s ot t#ere. T#is is somet#in6 t#at is &art#er do%n t#e !ine. Its not
6oin6 to #appen toda$ and ma$)e t#ere %i!! )e so!tions4 !i3e $o s66ested. 7B8//9
%&': Toda$ on Lets Ta!3 Bit*oin4 %ere 5oined )$ Tim S%anson and Step#anie Mrp#$.
Tim4 %e #ad p!anned to #ave $o on to 3ind o& a*t as a 6est #ost )t I4 a*ta!!$4 am rea!!$
%antin6 to *arr$ on t#is *onversation a)ot $or stats as one o& t#e ver$ &e% in&ormed
*r$pto*rren*$ s*epti*s %#o Ive ever met. Eore one o& t#e &e% peop!e %#o #as %ritten a
)oo3 a)ot t#e *r$pto*rren*$ spa*e. '(reat C#ain o& Nm)ers its &o*sed on t#e -..
%ave o& te*#no!o6ies t#at are *omin6 ot. Eo and I &irst met %#i!e $o %ere doin6 resear*#
&or t#e )oo3. T#e !ast time %e ta!3ed4 %#i*# %as not too !on6 a6o4 $o dont o%n an$
Bit*oin4 #avent invested in an$t#in6 and 6enera!!$4 $ore not drin3in6 t#e Koo!"Aid. Can
$o 3ind o& ta!3 to s a)ot %#at $or e>perien*e #as )een in t#is spa*e and %#$4 some#o%4
$ore a)!e to resist %#ere ot#er peop!e *annot= 7B8B19
TS: M$ )a*36rond... I %as %or3in6 in C#ina t#e !ast B"1 $ears and #ad a nm)er o& &riends
%#o #ad )een ta!3in6 a)ot Bit*oin. I )i!t some minin6 ma*#ines )t didnt rea!!$ t#in3 o&
t#e a*ta! te*#no!o6$ as somet#in6 t#at %o!d #ave an$ !astin6 po%er. I ended p #avin6
t#is rea!!$ interestin6 emai! *onversation %it# a 6$ named Hi5a$ Bo$apati %#o *onvin*ed
me a)ot it4 a)ot a $ear and a #a!& a6o4 t%o $ears a6o. I net%or3ed a !ot %#en I moved )a*3
to t#e IS and I t#in3 t#e te*#no!o6$ is a*ta!!$ *oo!4 it *o!d )e t#is 6rond )rea3in6 st&&
)t4 in pra*ti*e4 so &ar t#e on!$ apps an$ones a*ta!!$ made t#at #ave )een sed are 6am)!in6
and dr6s. A6ain4 I 3no% t#ats *oo! &or some peop!e )t4 in m$ vie% #avin6 !ived in a
deve!opin6 *ontr$4 $o dont 6o to t#at *ontr$ and sa$ He$4 t#e %a$ $o 6$s )e*ome
%ea!t#ier is )$ openin6 p a !ot o& *asinos and #andin6 ot opim. T#ose t%o arent t#e
drivers o& 6ro%t#. I& t#e$ %ere4 Ma*a and Las He6as %o!d )e t#e nm)er one e*onomies
in t#e %or!d and t#eir *ontries. Instead4 its Ne% Eor3 and S#an6#ai. 718B?9
S(: Tim4 Ive 6ot to 5mp in #ere and *#a!!en6e $o a !itt!e )it )e*ase Ive )een sin6
Bit*oin &or t#ree $ears and Ive never sed it &or eit#er o& t#ose prposes. I mean4 some o&
t#e t#in6s I #ave sed it &or are )$in6 &ood4 )$in6 drin3s and )$in6 t#in6s on!ine. No%
Im 3ind o& 5o3in6 )t Ive )o6#t a !ot o& t#in6s t#at arent dr6s or 6am)!in6. Have $o
seen some o& t#e ot#er ses &or Bit*oin= 7,8-/9
TS: Sre4 de&inite!$ and I t#in34 !on6 term4 t#ats #ope&!!$ %#at %i!! )e t#e ma5orit$ o& t#e
)!o*3*#ain )t i& $o do a tra&&i* ana!$sis4 and t#eres a rea!!$ 6ood paper *a!!ed 'A Gist&! o&
Bit*oins %#i*# *ame ot !ast $ear4 and over B.C o& t#e net%or3 %as4 at one point4 Satos#i
Ji*e or Frime Ji*e or t#ese 6am)!in6 sites and anot#er B"/.C %as Si!3 <oad. 7,8009
S(: Ma$)e t#e s#eer nm)er o& transa*tions )t Satos#i Ji*e %as &amos &or #avin6 tons o&
tin$ !itt!e transa*tions so I dont 3no% i& its rea!!$ &air to sa$ !i3e most o& t#e net%or3 %as
Satos#i Ji*e. 7,8BB9
TS: At its #ei6#t it %as and $o a*ta!!$ see t#is on t#e )!o*3*#ain. I& $o 6o !oo3 at
B!o*3*#ain.in&oK*#arts and $o !oo3 at transa*tiona! !o6s in Ma$ -./-4 it spi3es and it
)asi*a!!$ do)!ed. Eo #ave t#is 6i6anti* presen*e t#at #e!d &or over a $ear )e&ore t#e$ #ad
some rea! *ompetition. 7L8/19
S(: OK4 #o!d on. 2#at a)ot t#e srve$ &rom Mero Hed6e= Have $o seen t#at= T#at %as
done arond t#e same time4 I )e!ieve4 %#ere peop!e a*ta!!$ se!&"reported t#at t#e most
*ommon se o& Bit*oin %as 6i&ts4 tips4 donations and *#arita)!e prposes. 7L8-L9
%&': Se!&"reportin6 is an interestin6 distin*tion t#ere Step#anie. 7L8@/9
S(: Eo *an dismiss an$t#in6 se!&"reported )t t#ere are peop!e ot t#ere %#o do 6ive tips
and donations %it# Bit*oin. I mean4 t#at %as a*ta!!$ t#e ot#er t#in6 t#at I %anted to
mention t#at Ive sed Bit*oin &or. I t#in3 t#at %as t#e &irst t#in6 I ever sed Bit*oin &or %as
to send someone a tip on!ine. 7L8009
%&': Lets ta3e a step )a*3 &rom t#is &or a se*ond. It seems !i3e at t#e time t#at $ore
ta!3in6 a)ot Tim4 t#ere rea!!$ %asnt m*# e!se to do %it# Bit*oin. I& $o %anted to se it
&or )$in6 t#in6s4 t#at rea!!$ %asnt so avai!a)!e to $o as t#ere %erent man$ options &or it
and so it seems !i3e %#enever $o #ave t#is t$pe o& innovation4 it a!%a$s starts on t#e &rin6es
&or t#e peop!e %#o are !east served )$ t#e e>istin6 options. T#e$ *ome in and #ave t#e most
reason to se t#e ne% te*#no!o6$ t#at ena)!es %#atever t#e #e*3 t#e$ %ant to do and t#en
t#ats t#e t#in6 it 6ets sed &or. Over time4 t#ats )ein6 di!ted. Step#anie4 %eve #ad t#is
on6oin6 *onversation a)ot %#et#er or not t#e !i)ertarianism is 3ind o& )ein6 s*3ed ot o&
t#is t#in6 over time. Its )asi*a!!$ t#e same t#in64 ri6#t= 7?8-/9
TS: Sre4 so $ove )ro6#t p a &e% t#in6s t#ere. A6ain4 Im not sa$in6 t#is is t#e on!$ app
or %ont )e t#e on!$ app )t i& $o !oo3 at t#e )!o*3*#ain )e#avior4 /) no)od$ !i3es to spend4
ever$one #o!ds " $o see t#at meme 'HOJL4 ever$one 5st %ants to #o!d. Eo see t#at on
a*ta! )e#avior4 I posted an arti*!e on Coindes3 a *op!e o& %ee3s a6o t#at s#o%ed #o% t#e
vast ma5orit$ o& to3ens dont move on*e peop!e #ave t#em. Eo a)ot a /.C"/BC amont
t#ats !i;id and t#e rest o& t#em are 5st stored &orever. Feop!e are !i3e O#4 %#at #appens
i& it #its /.4...4 or %#atever... even %#en pri*es %ere 6oin6 p to N/...4 peop!e didnt e>it
t#e s$stem. Even i& t#e$ %anted to t#o6#4 t#e$ *o!dnt. T#eres 5st not eno6# !i;idit$
&or t#at. In 6enera!4 t#e a*ta! )e#avior is most peop!e dont spend )it*oins t#at #ave t#em4
t#e$ #o!d it &or spe*!ative prposes and t#ose %#o do4 t$pi*a!!$ spend it on to3en t#in6s4 or
on vain t#in6s or %#atever. 7/.8/,9
S(: Come on Tim. Ho!d on a se*ond. Eore ma3in6 a !ot o& va!e 5d6ements a)ot t#e
%a$ t#at peop!e se t#eir )it*oins. I mean4 %#at i& its norma! to4 primari!$4 )e in savin6s
mode and 5st )e*ase peop!e dont rea!!$ e>#i)it t#at )e#avior %it# do!!ars4 $o *o!d sa$
t#e$ #ave t#e opposite pro)!em and t#e$ spend too m*# do!!ars and t#e$ never save
an$t#in6 and its a *!tra! t#in6. Isnt t#at 5st a va!e 5d6ement t#at $ore ma3in6 on
#o% peop!e spend t#eir )it*oins or not= 7/.80/9
TS: Some o& it *ame a*ross t#at %a$. Im tr$in6 to des*ri)e t#e reason %#$ t#e$re doin6 it
and t#e reason %#$ t#e$re doin6 it is )e*ase its a de&!ationar$ asset so it tota!!$ ma3es
*omp!ete sense. Im not tr$in6 to )as# peop!e. Its t#e same t#in6 %it# 6o!d4 even t#o6#
6o!d #as )een arond &or a %#i!e4 peop!e arent sin6 6o!d da$ to da$4 even t#o6# t#e$
te*#ni*a!!$ *o!d and its )e*ase its a de&!ationar$ asset. T#e$ e>pe*t it to 6o p in pri*e4 or
t#e$ e>pe*t it to 6o do%n in pri*e and so t#e$re #o!din64 or so on. I sspe*t t#at most o& t#e
peop!e t#at are 7adio *ts9 arti*!e are peop!e %#o are nder %ater in t#e !ast t#ree to si>
mont#s. T#e$ )asi*a!!$ )o6#t at t#e pea3 and its 6one do%n and ma$)e t#e$ %i!! )e*ome
more !i;id4 as time 6oes )$4 )t t#e a*ta! data on t#e )!o*3*#ain %#i*# is p)!i* s#o%s t#at
peop!e dont spend and t#ose %#o do spend4 primari!$ spend &or i!!i*it a*tivities. A6ain4 Im
not sa$in6 t#ese peop!e s#o!d )e t#ro%n in 5ai! or 7adio *ts9 not *ondoned or %#atever4 I
#ave no parti*!ar opinion on t#at. Im 5st sa$in6 in t#e &ive $ears t#at its )een arond...
7//8@L9
S(: I!!i*it a*tivities= F!a$in6 a 6ame on!ine is an i!!i*it a*tivit$4 rea!!$= 7//8009
TS: Feop!e as3 me %#$ are $o 3ind o& s*epti*a! a)ot it. A6ain4 I t#in3 t#at t#e te*#no!o6$
is rea!!$ *oo! )t instead o& 6oin6 to t#e p!a*es %#ere4 &or e>amp!e4 t#at most se o& it %o!d
)e done %#i*# %o!d )e N(Os in severa! *ontries4 %e #ave peop!e %#o sit arond on
<eddit a!! da$... t#e$re nder%ater s*ammers )asi*a!!$. Its 5st an entire 6eneration o& nerds
and )ea*# raiders. Sre4 t#ere are di&&erent 6ames and st&& !i3e t#at $o *an p!a$ )t t#ose
a*tivities arent 6ro%in6 t#e e*onom$A t#e$ arent 6oin6 to )rin6 in ne% !e6itimate *stomers
or *!ients. I& $o %ant to #ave a ne% e*onom$4 $o need to"" 7/-8/?9
S(: Le6itimate p!a$ers= Eor 5d6ements are a!! over t#e p!a*e. Le6itimate... OK. I&
some)od$ 6ets into Bit*oin... i& some)od$ &inds ot a)ot Bit*oin )e*ase t#e$ %ant to p!a$
a 6ame on!ine4 $ore te!!in6 me t#e$re not a !e6itimate person= 7/-8-?9
TS: Sre4 I 6ess I pro)a)!$ s#o!d rep#rase t#at. I& $o !oo3 at a deve!opin6 e*onom$4 an
emer6in6 e*onom$4 $o dont 6o p to !oan s#ar3s4 $o dont 6o p to )i6 *asino operators
and sa$ He$4 6ro% m$ e*onom$. No4 $o 6o p to peop!e %#o )rin6 !e6itimate e*onomi*
6ro%t#... 7/-80,9
S(: Eore 3ind o& s#i&tin6 t#e 6oa!posts #ere I &ee!4 !i3e... OK4 (!a6#ter) &irst its on!ine
6amin6 is i!!e6itimate and t#en its !oan s#ar3s and *asinos. I mean4 I dont t#in3 an$one... I
t#in3 Bit*oin 6ames on!ine 3ind o& remove !oan s#ar3s and *asinos &rom t#e e;ation )e*ase
$o dont rea!!$ need a *asino i& $o *an 6o to p!a$ a 6ame on!ine4 ri6#t= 7/@8.,9
TS: Are $o ta!3in6 a)ot 6am)!in6 6ames or are $o ta!3in6 a)ot Hm)!e Bnd!e=
7/@8//9
S(: 2e!!4 %#atever4 it doesnt rea!!$ matter. T#ere are a!! 3inds o& di&&erent 6ames on!ine
and an$one *an 5d6e t#em #o%ever t#e$ %ant )t its n&air to !mp a!! 6ames on!ine t#at
invo!ve Bit*oin in %it# i!!i*it and i!!e6itimate a*tivit$ and sa$ t#at an$one %#o ses t#em is
an i!!e6itimate ser t#ats not 6ro%in6 t#e e*onom$. I disa6ree %it# t#at. 7/@8@-9
TS: Sre4 its a &air point. A6ain4 Im e;atin6 i!!e6itimate %it# entertainment. Im not
sa$in6 t#at t#e$re not movin6 mone$ or t#eres not e*onomi* a*tivit$. Its 5st not 6ro%in6
an e*onom$ )e*ase $ore not )rin6in6 in a*ta! 6ro%t# se6ments. In order to do 6ro%t#...
$o #ear t#ese peop!e sa$ O#4 Bit*oins 6oin6 to rep!a*e t#ese e*onomi* en6ines4 %e!! it
needs to *reate t#ose e*onomi* en6ines in Bit*oin and not 5st *ontine to move mone$
arond. 7/@8BL9
S(: OK4 %e *o!d te!! Ant Mi!!ies stories a!! da$ )t I 3no% some peop!e %#o 6ot
interested in Bit*oin )e*ase t#e$ %anted to p!a$ Sea!s %it# C!)s4 Bit*oin po3er on!ine and
no% t#e$ #ave )sinesses %#ere t#e$ se Bit*oin %it# t#eir )siness. It is a tota!!$ !e6itimate
)siness or somet#in6 t#at $o mi6#t *a!! !e6it4 !i3e t#e$re se!!in6 *and$ on!ine4 or &ood4 or
somet#in6 !i3e t#at. I disa6ree %it# t#e notion t#at pop!ariDin6 t#e se o& Bit*oin4 t#ro6#
6ames4 doesnt 6ro% t#e e*onom$ )e*ase it does. 7/08-B9
%&': I t#in3 t#e ar6ment #ere is t#at its not (JF *ontri)tin6 a*tivit$ and t#ats its not
a*ta! &ndamenta! e*onomi* a*tivit$4 its persona! spendin6 and t#at is e*onomi* a*tivit$ )t
not in t#e va!e prod*in6 %a$ t#at Tim is de&inin6 it #ere. 7/08@,9
S(: 2#$ does e*onomi* a*tivit$ &or persona! spendin6 not prod*e an$ va!e= Are $o
ta!3in6 a)ot ta>es= 7/080@9
%&': No4 Im ta!3in6 a)ot i& $o !oo3 at )road metri*s4 t#e %a$ t#at %e a*ta!!$ measre
prod*tivit$4 %e dont se person to person *ommer*e in t#ose measrements. 7/08B-9
S(: Ta!3in6 a)ot t#e deve!opin6 %or!d4 t%o t#irds o& t#e %or!ds e*onom$ is in S$stem J4
nre6!ated4 nta>ed4 o&& t#e )oo3s4 person to person transa*tions and4 in t#e same )reat#4
$ore sa$in6 t#at it doesnt 6ro% t#e e*onom$ to #ave t#ose 3inds o& transa*tions. I see a
*on&!i*t t#ere. 7/B8.?9
%&': A6ain4 it depends on %#at *ontr$ $ore ta!3in6 a)ot. In t#e *ontr$ I %as ta!3in6
a)ot4 I %as ta!3in6 a)ot t#e IS. 7/B8/09
S(: OK. 7/B8/B9
%&': In t#e IS4 t#ats #o% %e de&ine (JF and a6ain4 I t#in3 t#at Tim is pro)a)!$ spea3in6
&rom )ot# t#e IS and t#e C#ina perspe*tive4 ri6#t= 7/B8-.9
TS: Sre4 t#eres a*ta!!$ a rea!!$ simp!e... t#eres somet#in6 *a!!ed Tota! Ga*tor
Frod*tivit$. T#ats %#at e*onomists se to measre %#et#er or not an e*onom$ is 6ro%in6.
Eo se t#e same amont o& inpts and t#ose inpts )e*ome more prod*tive as time 6oes )$.
Eo see t#at in C#ina. T#e %a$ t#ose inpts )e*ome )etter is t#ro6# ed*ation4 t#ro6#
trainin64 t#ro6# te*#no!o6$ and $o dont #ave t#e same t#in6 #appenin6 %it# Bit*oin. In
&a*t4 )e*ase o& t#e %a$ miners %or34 and t#eres not m*# $o *an do to ma3e t#em
ne*essari!$ )etter4 e>*ept &or somet#in6 ma$)e !i3e side *#ains and so on. M$ point %it#
6ro%t# %it# 6am)!in6 i& 6am)!in6 6re% e*onomies4 %e %o!d #ave a 6ro%in6 e*onom$
%it# Bit*oin. 2#ats 6ro%in6 in Bit*oin are t#in6s on t#e ed6es4 !i3e Coin)ase and Cir*!e4
are t#ese 6reat %onder&!4 eas$ to se too!s4 )t it de&eats t#e %#o!e prpose o& #avin6 a
)!o*3*#ain )e*ase t#e$re *entra!iDed trst 7inadi)!e9. 7/18/.9
S(: 2#at a)ot t#in6s !i3e @,*oins or some o& t#e te*#no!o6ies t#at are ma3in6 Bit*oin
easier to se on Geatre F#ones= 7/18/,9
TS: Sre4 t#ose are 6reat and Im rea!!$ 6!ad peop!e are ma3in6 t#in6s !i3e t#at. Ive ta!3ed
to... %#ats #is name... Mars#a!! &rom Oi*3*oin I t#in3 t#ats a prett$ *oo! idea too4 HTML
B4 Ga*e)oo3 %a!!et. A6ain4 $o need to #ave )it*oins in order to se t#em. Feop!e dont
%ant to spend )it*oins4 t#e$ #o!d t#em and t#ats tota!!$ &ine and t#at ma3es sense i& its a
de&!ationar$ *rren*$ and so on. M$ point is t#at i& $ore 6oin6 to tr$ and 6ro% t#is
e*onom$4 $o need to ta3e t#at into a**ont %#en )i!din6 a )siness mode!. A6ain4 5st as
peop!e !i3e to #o!d and save4 t#en ma$)e &i6re ot some %a$s to *reate derivatives4 *reate
some %a$ to *reate interest o&& o& t#at and &i6re ot #o% to ma3e a !oan %it# t#ose.
In&ortnate!$4 t#at ta3es a !ot o& time4 t#at ta3es a !ot o& *omp!ian*e4 it ta3es !e6a!
&rame%or3s and attorne$s to #ire. O)vios!$4 Im 6oin6 to 6et a !ot o& #ate mai! &or sa$in6
t#at )t t#ats #o% peop!e treat )it*oins toda$. I& t#ats #o% peop!e treat t#em4 t#en i& $ore
6oin6 to do a *onsmer )e#avior std$4 t#en $o *an sa$ OK4 Im 6oin6 to ma3e a )siness
oriented to%ards t#at. Feop!e *an sa$ O# Tim4 $ore %ron6 a)ot a!! t#e 6am)!in6 and
arond %#at 6ro%s and st&& !i3e t#at )t $o *an disa6ree %it# t#at a!! $o %ant )t i& $o
%ant to a*ta!!$ see #o% peop!e se it and %#$ t#e$ se it4 t#e$ #o!d it as a store o& va!e. I&
t#e$ #o!d it as a store o& va!e4 t#e$ s#o!d )i!d a )siness arond t#at parti*!ar t#esis.
7/,8@/9
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
%)*E+T:
Kr$ptoKit is t#e %or!ds &irst C#rome )ro%ser Bit*oin %a!!et. Its t#e easiest4 &astest Bit*oin
%a!!et pa$ment s$stem %it# a simp!e one *!i*3 insta!!4 it ta3es 5st se*onds to 6et $or %a!!et
set p and )e*ase Kr$ptoKit &inds t#e address and pa$ment &or $o4 t#eres no more &ssin6
arond or ta) s%it*#in6. Kr$ptoKit is more t#an 5st a %a!!et. It *omes %it# a pre"!oaded
F(F en*r$pted so*ia! net%or34 ne%s&eeds &rom <eddit and (oo6!e and p to date *#arts &rom
e>*#an6es. Gina!!$4 Kr$ptoKit dire*tor$ a!!o%s $o to ma3e t%o *!i*3 pa$ments %it# an$ o&
t#e BitFa$ mer*#ants. On*e $o insta!! Kr$ptoKit4 $o %ont need an$t#in6 e!se. Gor more
in&ormation4 or to do%n!oad Kr$ptoKit4 visit Kr$ptoKit.*om. 7/L8/L9
%)*E+T:
Hi Listener4 #ere at Lets Ta!3 Bit*oin4 %ere )i!din6 a 6!o)a! net%or3 o& *orrespondents4
a)!e to *ontri)te on t#e 6rond perspe*tive %#en *r$pto*rren*$ re!ated in&ormation *omes
a*ross t#eir &i!ters. I& $od !i3e to 5oin or 6!o)a! *onversation4 send an emai! %it# $or
name and 6eo6rap#i* or *!tra! ni*#e to app!$P!etsta!3)it*oin.*om. +st !i3e Bit*oin4 t#e
on!$ )arrier to entr$ is $or time and 6ood %or3. T#an3s &or !istenin6. 7/L8019
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
%&': 2#at do $o t#in3 o& Jo6e*oin %it# its F< and ver$ in&!ationar$...= I mean4 !i3e t#e
in*entives arent to #o!d t#at. Jo $o #ave 6reater #opes &or t#at )e*ase o& t#e
&ndamenta!s= 7/L8BL9
TS: Anot#er *oin 5st started a!! a)ot t#at4 a %ee3 a6o. A6ain4 I !i3e +a*3son4 Ive met %it#
#im severa! times4 and I t#in3 #es a 6reat 6$ and #es a mar3etin6 6r and I t#in3 t#at
Jo6e*oin did )rin6 a %#o!e !ot o& ne% demo6rap#i*s )t I t#in3 it %i!! )e dead in a)ot &or
mont#s. T#e %a$ t#is is #appenin6 is $o see t#is %it# t#e #as# rate. Net%or3 #as#rate4 i&
peop!e are n&ami!iar %it# t#is4 )asi*a!!$ s#o%s t#e stren6t# o& t#e se*rit$ o& $or net%or34
at !east one ;anti&ia)!e %a$ o& se*rin64 and anot#er %a$ o& ;a!it$ %#i*# %o!d )e #o%
dispersed and de*entra!iDed it is. Gor t#e prposes o& t#is4 ever$ t%o mont#s t#e net%or3
#as#rate in Jo6e*oin #as )een de*reasin6 )$ -.C or @.C. It *orresponds e>a*t!$ %it# t#e
)!o*3rate re%ards #a!vin6. B!o*3rate re%ards #a!vin6 is... t#is is pro6rammed into a!most a!!
*r$pto*rren*ies. In a *ertain amont o& time4 t#e )!o*3 re%ard %i!! 6o &rom B. to -B or -B
to /-.B4 %#i*# %o!d )e Bit*oin. T#ese )!o*3 re%ards are t#e s)sid$. Its t#e %a$ to )ri)e
miners to sta$ on)oard. Its t#e )i6 in*ome and i& $o !oo3 at4 &or e>amp!e4 %it# Bit*oin4
over ??C o& a miners in*ome *omes &rom )!o*3 re%ards. T#e$ on!$ re*eive a)ot .@/C
&rom a*ta! transa*tions. 2#en peop!e sa$ O#4 I dont %ant to pa$ transa*tion &ees4 no)od$
!i3es spendin6 transa*tion &ees and so no)od$ does. T#e same t#in6 %it# Jo6e*oin.
Jo6e*oins transa*tiona! vo!me toda$ is at t#e same !eve! it %as t#e ver$ &irst %ee3 %#en it
%as !an*#ed. It did t#is 6i6anti* para)o!a so it %ent p in t#e s3$4 it *ame )a*3 do%n and
t#e net%or3 #as#rates %ere 6oin6 do%n ever$ t%o mont#s )$ -."@.C. Im not tr$in6 to )e
mean to Jo6e*oin or t#ose devs t#at %or3ed #ard )t %#ats 6oin6 to end p #appenin6 is
t#e$re 6oin6 to 6ive a%a$4 essentia!!$ )e*ase t#is is pro6rammed &rom t#e )e6innin64
t#e$re 6oin6 to 6ive a%a$ a!! t#eir s)sidies in t#e &irst $ear to )ri)e t#e net%or3 operators4
t#e miners4 and t#e !a)or &or*e. T#e !a)or &or*e 6oes to some%#ere t#ats more pro&ita)!e to
mine so $o see t#is #appen t#e$ 6o to Lite*oin or some ot#er S*r$pt")ased *oin. Even
t#o6# t#e$ did *reate t#is *oo! meme and some)od$ !i3e m$ 6ir!&riend4 s#e said O#4 t#ere
are %omen at t#ese meet"ps. I #ad a meetin6 %it# t#is )an3in6 e>e*tive a)ot a mont# a6o
and #es !i3e Tim4 %#ats t#e )i66est di&&eren*e )et%een Jo6e*oin and t#e rest= I %as !i3e
2e!!4 $o 3no%4 %omen are t#ere. Hes !i3e O#4 its t#e %in6man *oin4 its t#ere to )e
6roov$ in &ront o& a!! t#ese ot#er %omen... at t#e )ar and ma3e $o !oo3 6ood and st&& !i3e
t#at. Eea#4 its a prett$ 6ood ana!o6$ and its 6oin6 to need a %in6man to srvive. T#ats t#e
6ist o& m$ arti*!e. I t#in3 its *oo! )t a6ain4 6oin6 )a*3 to tips " tips dont 6ro% an e*onom$
ne*essari!$ eit#er. T#ere is rea!!$ no a*ademi* !iteratre t#at s#o%s #o% tips 6ro% an
e*onom$. It a*ts as a &a*et4 it a*ts as a %a$ to distri)te to3ens and t#ats &ine i& $o %ant to
#ave &n and do reptations and *ontent. Ma$)e t#ats t#e %a$ to do e>periments )t to 6ro%
an e*onom$4 $o need to *reate an a*ta! enterprise t#at *reates e*onomi* 6ro%t# and tippin6
doesnt do t#at. Eo dont 6o to C#i!e4 $o dont 6o to C#ina and sa$ He$ C#ina4 $ore
pro)!em is $o 6$s dont tip eno6#4 so start tippin6. T#ats not #o% it %or3s. 7--8./9
S(: 2#at a)ot mi*ro"pa$ments= 2#at a)ot t#e e>periment %it# t#e C#i*a6o Sn Times
%#ere t#e$ did t#e Bit2a!! and peop!e #ad to pa$ to 6et t#eir arti*!es or %#atever and peop!e
sent N..-B4 %#i*# is prett$ m*# impossi)!e %it# a *redit *ard or Fa$Fa!4 ri6#t= 7--8/19
TS: Sre4 its impossi)!e to do it toda$ )t t#is is %#at (avin Andresen pointed ot in
Amsterdam. Hes !i3e " I& Bit*oin )e*omes pop!ar4 $ore 6oin6 to #ave a transa*tion &ee
t#at *osts more t#an %#atever t#e *ost... its 6oin6 to pri*e ot t#e poor4 )asi*a!!$. T#e
transa*tion &ee %i!! in*rease. 7F< note8 Q (avinRs ta!3 is in LTB episode //0 i& $oRd !i3e to
*on&irm or de)n3 t#at $orse!&9 I& Jo6e ever )e*ame pop!ar4 t#e transa*tion &ee t#at ever
*ame to e>ist4 i& t#e$ #ad one4 %o!d )e #i6#er t#an a *p o& *o&&ee4 or somet#in6 !i3e t#at.
7--8@?9
S(: In!ess t#at pro)!em is so!ved )$ de*reasin6 t#e need &or #i6#er transa*tion &ees )$
in*reasin6 t#e )!o*3 !imit4 or %#atever4 ri6#t= T#at pro)!em *o!d )e so!ved. Its not 6oin6
to )e a pro)!em &orever. 7--80?9
TS: T#ere are t%o t#in6s. Eore ri6#t %it# )!o*3 siDe4 t#at didnt e>ist. I& $o !oo3 )a*3
at t#e ver$ )e6innin64 Satos#i4 t#ere %as no )!o*3s siDe4 t#ere %as no transa*tion &ee. In )ot#
7inadi)!e9 &or di&&erent prposes )t4 6enera!!$ spea3in64 to !imit spam and4 in t#e end4
no)od$ 7adio *ts9 and no)od$ !i3es to pa$ &ees. In order to in*entiviDe miners to do %#at
t#e$re spposed to do %#i*# is provide t#is !a)or4 provide t#e se*rit$ and transa*tiona!
vo!me4 $o need to 6ive t#em somet#in6. T#ere is no &ree and t#ats one o& t#e t#in6s I
t#in3 t#at peop!e s#o!d stop sa$in6 its %#at Bit*oin is. Bit*oin is a*ta!!$ rea!!$ e>pensive
and i& $o !oo3 at t#e transa*tiona! *osts4 toda$ its a)ot N@B o& transa*tion and i& $o do
transa*tions divided )$ #o% m*# miners are paid and t#ats e>treme!$... t#e %a$ t#at is paid
ot is t#ro6# to3en di!tion. An$ #o!der o& Bit*oin pa$s in in&!ation ta> ever$ ten mintes.
7-@80@9
S(: 2#ere did $o 6et t#at nm)er &rom= 7-@80B9
TS: B!o*3*#ain.in&o #as a *#art it s#o%s $o ever$ da$ a)ot #o% m*# its 6oin6 to *ost.
A!! $o do is 5st ta3e t#e transa*tiona! vo!me4 divided )$ #o% m*# miners are essentia!!$
paid. 7-@8B@9
%&': Its not t#e *ost to a sin6!e miner4 its t#e a66re6ate *ost o& t#e %#o!e amont o&
mone$ )ein6 pt in to minin64 essentia!!$ t#ro6# e!e*tri*it$ and e;ipment and ot#er t#in6s
!i3e t#at4 re!ative to t#e amont o& transa*tions t#at are 6oin6 t#ro6#. T#e net%or3 is sper4
sper redndant ver$4 ver$ over"*ompensatin6 and )e*ase o& t#at t#ere is a !ot o& %aste
and mone$ 6oin6 in. Its not a *ost t#ats *arried )$ an$)od$ otside o& t#e miners. 7-08/09
TS: Ees and no. T#e miners are paid ever$ ten mintes t#ro6# sei6niora6e4 ri6#t= T#at
sei6niora6e %o!d )e t#e s)sid$ is di!ted to ever$ones s#ares. In a sense4 i& t#ere are /...
s#ares toda$4 in t#e ne>t ten mintes4 %e #ave /./.. 7-08-?9
%&': Tim4 t#at depends on #o% $ore de&inin6 di!tion )e*ase I t#in3 a !ot o& peop!e !oo3
at t#e Bit*oin mone$ spp!$4 !i3e m$se!&4 %#i*# is to sa$ t#ere are -/ mi!!ion o& t#em.
Crrent!$4 t#ere arent -/ mi!!ion o& t#em ot )t t#e nm)er t#ats re!evant is t#at -/ mi!!ion
and t#e sei6niora6e $ore ta!3in6 a)ot is 5st movin6 s &rt#er to%ards t#at point. Ees4 its
di!tion )t its s*#ed!ed p!anned di!tion t#at ever$)od$s a%are o&. 7-080?9
TS: Sre4 $ore ri6#t. Ever$one nderstands4 in t#e )e6innin64 t#is is 6oin6 to #appen
ever$ ten mintes. 2e #ave in&!ation o& //C " t#e mone$ spp!$ is 6oin6 to e>pand //C t#is
$ear. Its paid &or )$ ever$one4 in t#at sense4 its a ta> on ever$one. Im not ne*essari!$
6oin6 to dispara6e t#is verss ;antitative easin6. Im not sa$in6 Im de&endin6 ;antitative
easin6 )t Im sa$in6 i& $o a*ta!!$ !oo3 at t#e data4 t#ats e>a*t!$ %#ats #appenin6. 7-B8/-9
S(: Eo said4 a &e% mintes a6o4 t#at Bit*oin is de&!ationar$ so %#i*# one is it= Is it
in&!ationar$ or de&!ationar$= 7-B8/L9
TS: In ine!asti* mone$ spp!$4 t#ere is no %a$ to *#an6e it. In t#e !on6 rn4 its de&!ationar$.
In t#e s#ort rn4 and t#e &irst ten $ears4 its a*ta!!$ prett$ in&!ationar$. A&ter t#e ten $ears4
a&ter t#e s)sidiDation disappears4 it )e*omes ;ite de&!ationar$. <i6#t no%4 in t#e )ootstrap
p#ase4 its #i6#!$ in&!ationar$. A*ta!!$4 a!! *rren*ies are. Its not 5st Bit*oin. Jo6e*oin
%as even more and Lite*oin and so on. Eo raise a rea!!$ 6ood point Adam. Eo #ave t#is
t#in6 in e*onomi*s " mar6ina! *ost e;a!s mar6ina! va!e. T#e do!!ar in $or po*3et it
doesnt *ost a do!!ar to ma3e t#at. T#e &a*e va!e o& t#at is 6oin6 to )e si6ni&i*ant!$ #i6#er
t#an %#atever it *osts. T#ats t#e %a$ it %or3s %it# state sei6niora6e s$stems. In private
sei6niora6e s$stems4 !i3e $o %it# *r$pto*rren*ies4 $o #ave in t#e !on6 rn4 mar6ina!
va!es e;a!s mar6ina! *osts. Satos#i pointed t#is ot #imse!& in t#e ori6ina! 7GA-=9 #e said
t#at t#e va!e o& t#e to3en %i!! e;a! t#e *ost o& e>tra*tin6 t#e rent. Essentia!!$4 ener6$
e;a!s %#atever t#e va!e o& t#e to3en is. I& $ove a N/... to3en4 N/... %ort# o& ener6$
%i!! )e )rned to *reate t#at to3en or to se*re t#at to3en and so on. It *o!d )e N/.4...
to3en i& N/.4... %ort# o& ener6$ or *apita! )ein6 )rnt on t#e ot#er end. T#e reason t#is is
important is )e*ase miners4 a6ain4 are )ein6 paid t#e s)sid$ and t#e$re 6oin6 to #ave to
start dmpin6... or t#e$ do dmp... and $o see t#is s#ort term ve!o*it$4 i& $o %i!!4 o& t#e
to3ens. T#e$ se!! t#ese on t#e mar3et and so ever$ da$4 t#ere is at !east at t#e pri*e toda$4 !i3e
N- mi!!ion %ort# o& to3ens )ein6 dmped on t#e mar3et. T#e$ #ave to do t#is4 t#e$ *ant 5st
#o!d to it4 its not &ree to t#em )e*ase t#e$ #ave t#e rea! *osts to pa$. T#e on!$ peop!e rea!!$4
ri6#t no%4 %#o are )ene&itin6 &rom t#e Bit*oin pri*es and so on4 are TSNCI %#i*# is a ASIC
prod*er4 ener6$ *ompanies and rea!!$4 rea!!$4 rea!!$ !ar6e &arms. On t#e minin6 side o&
t#in6s4 t#ose are t#e peop!e %#o are )ene&itin6 &rom it. Ever$one e!se4 t#ese mar6ina!
p!a$ers4 are sa!!$ operatin6 at a !oss4 are operatin6 !osses. I sa% t#is &irst #and in C#ina
%#en I %as )i!din6 t#ese ma*#ines and peop!e4 )asi*a!!$4 mined ri6#t no% toda$4 )e*ase
t#e$ )e!ieve its 6oin6 to appre*iate in va!e !ater on. In &a*t4 t#e$re over"se*rin6 t#e
net%or3 7adio *ts9 B/C. Im not sa$in6 t#is is %#$ Im s*epti*a! o& t#e sitation4 Im 5st
tr$in6 to e>p!ain t#e to3en di!tion and %it#ot t#at s)sid$4 t#e$ %o!dnt )e se*rin6 t#e
net%or3 in t#e &irst p!a*e. 7-,8@@9
S(: Jont $o t#in3 t#at4 over time4 i& $ore sa$in6 t#at N@B per transa*tion is !i3e t#e
appro>imate amont t#ats )een pored into t#e net%or3... dont $o t#in3 t#at4 over time4
t#at %i!! tend to%ard more e&&i*ien*$ i& &or no ot#er reason t#an peop!e %i!! rea!iDe t#e$re
operatin6 at a !oss and t#e$!! sa$ O#4 %eve 6ot to do somet#in6 di&&erent!$4 i& t#e$re
miners= 7-,80?9
TS: T#ats a rea!!$ 6ood ;estion. T#ere are at !east t#ree e>*eptions to t#e r!e. An
e*onomi* pro&essiona! miner4 someone %#os doin6 t#is &or pro&it is !i3e " OK4 Im 5st 6oin6
to stop operatin6 i& Im not ma3in6 as m*# mone$ as it *osts4 ri6#t= T#ere are e>*eptions to
t#is t#ere are #o))$ists4 %#o are 5st #avin6 &n and resear*#ers4 tr$in6 to &i6re ot #o%
t#e s$stem %or3s and t#en t#ere are )otnet operators. Botnet operators dont rea!!$ e>ist
an$more %it# Bit*oin. T#e$ve 6one on to ot#er CFI")ased *r$pto*rren*ies )t &or a
%#i!e4 t#ere is a rea!!$ 6ood paper (I *an send it to $o4 i& $o %ant) its 'MonetiDin6 Sto!en
E!e*tri*it$ MonetiDin6 Bit*oin C$*!es. 2#at $o #ad is $o #ave !e6itimate p!a$ers ot
t#ere %#o %ant to mine and t#en $o #ave4 %e %o!d *a!!4 i!!e6itimate p!a$ers4 peop!e %#o
operate t#ese )otnets and %#at #appens %it# )otnets is it s;eeDes ot mar6ina! p!a$ers4 it
in*reases or arti&i*ia!!$ in&!ates t#e di&&i*!t$ ratin6 and4 as a res!t4 %#en p!a$ers %ant to 6et
)a*3 in a&ter )otnets #ave 6one4 t#e di&&i*!t$ ratin6 is e>treme!$ #i6# and t#e$ *ant p!a$ t#e
6ame an$more. In addition4 )otnet operators e>terna!iDe t#e *osts4 &or e>amp!e o& e!e*tri*it$4
o& #ard drives4 o& CFIs )e*ase o& t#e rea! depre*iatin6 *apita! 6oods ri6#t t#ere4 t#at #ave
no% )een %orn ot and some)od$ #as to pa$ )a*3 *osts. In t#e !on6 rn4 sre4 Im sre it
%i!! 5st )e ASIC *entra!iDed some%#ere %#ere t#e *#eapest ener6$ is. In &a*t4 I ma3e t#at
ar6ment in anot#er paper. As &ar as t#e N@B4 it %i!! a*ta!!$ 6o p transa*tiona! vo!me
*o!d *ost more and %e sa% t#is ear!ier %#en %e #ad a pri*e pea3 o& N/...4 or %#atever4 t#e
*ost %as !i3e N,B. Im not sa$in6 it %i!! t#ere is a *orre!ation4 not ne*essari!$ *asation )t
it t$pi*a!!$ does &o!!o% %#atever t#e to3en va!e is. Gor t#e one parti*!ar reason t#at peop!e
on!$ se )it*oins primari!$ drin6 a )!! rn or drin6 a &re;ent movement and t#en it sta$s
t#e same. T#ats %#$ &or si> mont#s4 sin*e Je*em)er4 t#ere #as )een no added transa*tiona!
vo!me on t#e )!o*3*#ain. T#ere is st&& on t#e ed6es )t on t#e )!o*3*#ain itse!&4 it #asnt
moved. T#ere are a)ot 1.4... transa*tions a da$. 2#en I &irst 6ot into %ritin6 a)ot t#is
st&& si> mont#s a6o4 t#e a*ta! amont o& mer*#ants %as a)ot -.4... and no% %ere over
1.4.... Eo #ave a trip!in6 o& mer*#ants4 $et no ne% transa*tiona! vo!me and t#ats )e*ase
peop!e !i3e to #o!d t#e to3en. T#ats tota!!$ &ine )e*ase its t#eir o%n de*ision and t#e$ see
it as a de&!ationar$ 6ood )t a6ain4 i& $o %ant peop!e to spend it and $o %ant to )e a)!e to
pa$ miners t#ro6# transa*tion &ees4 $o need to do somet#in6 and $o need to in*entiviDe
t#at. In a se *ase4 no)od$ !i3es to pa$ &ees and no)od$ %ants to pa$ miners t#at %a$.
7@.8-19
%&': T#e *onversation4 to t#is point4 #as !ar6e!$ )een a)ot Bit*oin. I t#in3 t#at its an
interestin6 part a)ot *r$pto*rren*$ )e*ase a6ain4 $o #ave a!! o& t#ese ot#er options ot
t#ere and t#e$ mi6#t not #ave t#e net%or3 e&&e*t $et )t t#e$re doin6 interestin6 t#in6s. As
$ore spea3in6 a)ot t#is4 Im sittin6 #ere t#in3in6 t#is sonds a !ot !i3e %#at Jan Larimers
%or3in6 on %it# Je!e6ated Froo&"o&"Sta3e (JFoS). T#ats %#at #e ta!3s a)ot too4 #e ta!3s
a)ot t#e in&!ation o& t#e mone$ spp!$ t#ro6# minin6 and st&& !i3e t#at. A6ain4 its 5st
a)ot #o% $o !oo3 at it )t #is so!tion... are $o &ami!iar %it# it= 7@.8B.9
TS: Sre4 $ea#. Ive seen #is paper. Ive !in3ed it4 I t#in3 in one &ootnote. 7@.8B09
%&': T#e point is t#at t#ere is no in&!ation in itA its 5st a de&!ationar$ environment. I dont
)e!ieve t#at t#ere are m*# in t#e %a$ o& transa*tion &ees )t its )e*ase t#e peop!e %#o are
si6nin6 )!o*3s4 %#i*# is to sa$... %#i*# is %#at miners do4 )asi*a!!$4 t#e$ si6n )!o*3s...
7@/8.L9
S(: Li3e t#at responsi)i!it$ is de!e6ated to sma!!er 6rops o& peop!e t#an t#e entire net%or3.
Is t#at ri6#t= 7@/8/@9
%&': <i6#t $ea#4 %it# t#e idea )ein6 t#at t#ere is sti!! a**onta)i!it$ in t#e s$stem )e*ase
its *omp!ete!$ transparent and so i& one o& t#e de!e6ates does somet#in6 %ron64 t#en n!ess
a!! o& t#em are doin6 it %ron6 at on*e4 t#en a!! o& t#e ot#ers p!s t#e entire net%or3
rationa!iDin6 t#e t#in64 *at*#es t#e )ad a*tor4 3i*3s t#em ot immediate!$ and t#e$ !ose
%#atever pa$ t#e$ %ere 6oin6 to )e o%ed &or t#e %or3 t#at t#e$ #ad )een doin6. Its a tota!!$
atomated position )t its a partia! *entra!iDationA its not a &ederated s$stem. At t#e same
time4 $o 6et rid o& a!! o& t#e monetar$ in&!ation t#at $o #ave %it# t#at. Tim4 does t#at sort
o& t#in6... is t#at %#at $ore !oo3in6 &or in *r$pto*rren*$ or i& t#ats not a 6ood e>amp!e4 is
t#ere a 6ood one $o *an t#in3 o&= Someone %#os doin6 it ri6#t= 7@/8BB9
TS: I t#in3 a!ts are a 6reat %a$ to e>periment %it# t#is st&&. Eea#4 proo&"o&"sta3e is a prett$
*oo! idea in 6enera! )t n&ortnate!$4 a!most a!! proo&"o&"sta3es t#at #ave e>isted to t#is
point4 #ave &ai!ed in some manner and so t#e$ end p )e*omin6 *entra!iDed4 !i3e Feer*oin.
T#e$ )asi*a!!$ #ave to #ave *entra!iDed *#e*3 o&&s )$ t#e dev team &or ea*# )!o*3 so it 3ind
o& de&eats t#e %#o!e prpose o& t#e de*entra!iDation. T#ere are di&&erent %a$s $o *an do it
and ma$)e Janie!s &i6red ot one %a$ to do anot#er %a$ o& *onsenss4 a trst!ess
*onsenss and I %is# #im t#e )est o& !*3. T#ere is anot#er pro5e*t4 I t#in3 its Step#en <eed
(chec$ed that on Googe, #as *ome p %it# t#e %a$ to &or3 Bit*oin to ma3e it proo&"o&"
sta3e. T#e pro)!em %it# an$)od$ tr$in6 to tin3er %it# Bit*oins proto*o! ri6#t no% is tr$in6
to 6et t#e miners to )$ into it. T#e$ve a!read$ 6ot a *ost *rve on #o% m*# its 6oin6 to
ta3e to re*op %#atever t#e *apita! *osts are. T#e$re on!$ 6oin6 to *$*!e *ode t#ats
pro&ita)!e to t#em. T#e$re on!$ 6oin6 to #as# st&& t#ats pro&ita)!e to t#em. Froo&"o&"sta3e
is not pro&ita)!e to an$ miner )e*ase t#ere is no sei6niora6e invo!ved. Essentia!!$4 t#ese
t#in6s %i!! #ave to )e done on t#ese ot#er !ed6ers and I %is# t#em t#e )est o& !*3. I& t#e
!istener %o!d !i3e to *#e*3 ot t%o di&&erent e>periments4 t#ere is one *a!!ed 'Sta)!e*oin
and one *a!!ed '(ro%t#*oin. (ro%t#*oin is an idea proposed )$ <o)ert Sands4 #es one o&
t#e 6$s I mentioned at t#e )e6innin6. He *ame p %it# t#is idea a)ot &ive mont#s a6o and
Im not sre i& #es 6oin6 to imp!ement t#e *ode )t t#e idea is $o #ave some 3ind o&
rea!i6nment o& t#e to3en ever$ so o&ten. Eo see t#is )est in Sta)!e*oin. Sta)!e*oin is a
pro5e*t t#at %as a &ina!ist &or a )!o*3*#ain a%ard !ast mont#. Basi*a!!$4 it %as a paper %ritten
)$ Gerdinando Ametrano and #es *ome p %it# t#is idea ever$ da$4 $or %a!!et is re)ased4
)ased on #o% man$ transa*tions t#e %#o!e net%or3 6ets. Sa$ $o #ad /.. to3ens in $or
%a!!et and t#ere %as -C transa*tiona! vo!me net%or3 %ide4 t#en $o 6et /.-. Basi*a!!$4
ever$ da$ $o #ad a re)asin6 o& $or a*ta! to3ens and o)vios!$4 peop!e %#o %ant a
de&!ationar$ *rren*$ %o!d never se it )e*ase t#e$re !i3e O# no4 t#is is in&!ation. 2e!!4
its a*ta!!$... its not tr$in6 to )e eit#er in&!ation or de&!ation4 its spposed to )e 5st &!ation.
Its 5st a re)asement to se proo&... 7@08/-9
S(: G!ation= (La6#ter) 7@08/@9
TS: Eea#4 5st &!ation. Its to 6et peop!e to se t#e to3en &or transa*tions. T#e isse %it#
Bit*oin t#o6# is4 in pra*ti*e and rea!!$ in t#eor$4 it *o!d on!$ rea!!$ )e sed as a store o&
va!e or as a medim o& e>*#an6e. Feop!e dont %ant to se it as a medim o& e>*#an6e4 in
pra*ti*e4 )e*ase its 7de&!ationar$=9 and )e*ase it *osts mone$ to a*ta!!$ se it. Its
%onder&! &or mer*#ants. Mer*#ants #ave ever$ reason to se it )e*ase it doesnt *ost t#em
an$t#in6 to a**ept it )t $o4 as a ser4 #ave to pa$ a &ee. Its !i3e i& $o %ant to 6o to
2a!mart4 $o dont to #ave to pa$ an$ &ee )t %it# Bit*oin4 $ore !i3e O#4 $o a*ta!!$
#ave to pa$ a &ee i& $o %ant to se it. 2it# Sta)!e*oin and (ro%t#*oin4 t#e idea is $o #ave
t#is re)asement %#i*# 3ind o& pa$s &or itse!&. T#e$ #avent %or3ed ot t#e %#o!e me*#ani*s.
Its sti!! in t#e dra%in6 )oard )t t#ese are t%o pro5e*ts t#at ma$)e !isteners %o!d )e
interested in tr$in6 to imp!ement. I 3no% I *o!d introd*e t#em to Gerdinando or <o)ert.
T#e$ are a!%a$s interested in ta!3in6 to peop!e. 7@B8.L9
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
%)*E+T:
He$ t#ere LTB !isteners4 in t#e !ast si> mont#s4 %eve morp#ed &rom t#e Lets Ta!3 Bit*oin
s#o% into a &!! net%or3 o& *r$pto*rren*$ re!ated *ontent. Eo mi6#t #ave noti*ed $or
pod*ast &eed 6ettin6 a !itt!e *ro%ded and4 )$ no%4 $o pro)a)!$ #ave a 6ood idea %#i*#
s#o%s $o most en5o$. To s)s*ri)e to individa! s#o%s4 #ead over to
!etsta!3)it*oin.*omKs#o%s4 %#ere $o *an )i!d $or o%n *stom )!end4 s)s*ri)e to
individa! s#o%s and a!so 6ra) or &!! %ritten arti*!e &eed4 %#i*# is $or ti*3et to a %ide
variet$ o& Bit*oin stories and opinions. O#4 and one more t#in6 i& $ore into App!e
devi*es4 *#e*3 t#e App Store &or Lets Ta!3 Bit*oin to do%n!oad or &ree s#o% p!a$er and
virta! ma6aDine4 optimiDed &or iF#one B. Android version %i!! in*!de %a!!et &n*tiona!it$
and *rrent!$4 %ere in t#e p!annin6 p#ases on t#at. I& $o !i3e %#at %ere doin64 p!ease rate4
revie% and s#are. T#an3s &or !istenin6. Ba*3 to t#e s#o%. 7@18/L9
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
%&': Tim4 $o %rote... I 6ess... %as it t#e &irst )oo3 on t#e *r$pto*rren*$ -.. st&&4 t#e
Conterpart$s and Master*oins and N>ts and t#e varios ot#er pro5e*ts t#at are ot t#ere in
t#e spa*e= 2as t#is t#e &irst p)!i*ation on it= 7@18@/9
TS: Its &nn$4 it %as. It %asnt m$ 6oa! to do t#at. I pt to6et#er a )n*# o& notes. I
*onsider m$se!& a stdent4 !earnin6 &rom t#e *ommnit$. I #ave so man$ t#an3s to 6ive to t#e
*ommnit$. T#e *riti*ism Ive #ad isnt to%ards an$ one parti*!ar person or one parti*!ar
entit$4 or an$t#in6 !i3e t#at. T#ese are 5st 6ro%in6 painsA some *#a!!en6es and t#at #appens
in an$ e*onom$. 2it# m$ )oo34 I intervie%ed a)ot &or doDen di&&erent peop!e4 in*!din6
$orse!&A $o %rote a ver$ 3ind &ore%ord &or me. In #ere4 a)ot t#ese di&&erent -.. s$stems
and t#ere %asnt one parti*!ar p!a*e $o *o!d 6o t#at #ad it a!! !aid ot and I made an e&&ort
to tr$ and ta!3 to ea*# o& t#e !ead deve!opers o& t#ese pro5e*ts4 one on one4 or on S3$pe4 or )$
emai!4 or over t#e p#one and t#en I *ompi!ed t#eir intervie%s as %e!! as peop!e %#o do
investments4 entrepreners. T#e$ a!! #ave rea!!$ *oo! ideas and I *ertain!$ %is# t#em a!! t#e
)est o& !*3. I& $o %ant4 I *o!d 6o into some o& t#e interestin6 ideas i& $od !i3e. 7@,8-,9
%&': Id )e *rios. A6ain4 t#is is a )i64 %ide4 deep spa*e ri6#t no% and its rea!!$
dis*onne*ted. Some peop!e #ave t#e a)i!it$ to spend a!! t#eir time a)sor)in6 t#at in&ormation
)t *ertain!$ not ever$)od$. Eea#4 Id !ove $or perspe*tive on t#e spa*e. 7@,80/9
TS: I 6ess some o& s on t#e otside #ave #eard a)ot smart *ontra*ts &or a *op!e o& $ears
and I remem)er readin6 some o& Ni*3 SDa)os %or3s a &e% $ears a6o )e&ore I e;ated it %it#
t#is *r$pto*rren*$ spa*e. Hes t#e 6od&at#er o& a!! t#isA t#e inte!!e*ta! &at#er to t#is
movement. I dont !i3e to sa$ movement )t t#is its 5st t#is idea o& *reatin6 trst!ess asset
e>*#an6e4 trst!ess asset mana6ement. Smart *ontra*ts are4 5st in s#ort4 *ompter *ode t#at
e>e*tes itse!&. Its a *ontra*t t#ats a)!e to veri&$ and e>e*te t#e terms o& t#e *ontra*t. Its a
*oo! idea and it *o!d do t#is in a trst!ess manner. O)vios!$4 $ore 6oin6 to #ave #rd!es
%it# !e6a! isses4 do $o #ave a meetin6 o& t#e minds4 are $o indemni&ied on t#e *#ain and
so on. Gor stri*t prposes t#is is stri*t!$ t#eoreti*a! " i& $o *o!d *reate a )i!atera!
me*#anism &or e>*#an6in6 assets so $o dont ne*essari!$ need to e>it t#e s$stem. Gor
e>amp!e4 one o& t#e *ommon *omp!aints %it# Bit*oin is O#4 most mer*#ants are 5st 6oin6
to immediate!$ *onvert t#eir )it*oins to &iat. T#ats prett$ m*# tre )t i& t#ere %as a %a$
&or t#em to 3eep t#at and *reate a *!osed s$stem to %#ere t#e$ pa$ t#eir spp!iers4 t#e$ pa$
t#eir emp!o$ees in Bit*oin4 t#e same t#in6 *o!d #appen %it# smart *ontra*ts or ma$)e t#e$
*o!d trade tit!es o& t#eir #oses and tit!es o& t#eir *ars and so on. Its a prett$ *oo! ideaA it
*o!d de&inite!$ #e!p ot peop!e in t#e deve!opin6 %or!d. Not so m*# peop!e in t#e
deve!oped %or!d )e*ase %e a!read$ #ave a prett$ 6ood s$stem. Gor t#e most part4 peop!e
ar6e and Im sre I!! 6et #ate mai! &or t#at. In t#e deve!opin6 %or!d4 &or e>amp!e %it#
C#ina4 $o #ave a !ot o& mar6ina!iDed p!a$ers4 t#ese mi6rant %or3ers4 severa! #ndred mi!!ion
o& t#ese mi6rant %or3ers %#o move to *ities and t#eir *ontra*ts are *omp!ete!$ i6nored. I
*o!d 6ive $o nm)ers %it# t#at a !itt!e )it !ater )t t#e idea is t#is $o *o!d empo%er
peop!e %#o are nder")an3ed or nderprivi!e6ed4 a!t#o6# in pra*ti*e4 it pro)a)!$ %ont ta3e
p!a*e in C#ina )e*ase o& t#e %a$ t#e Fart$ %or3s t#ere. In t#eor$4 t#is %o!d )e a prett$
*oo! t#in6 to tr$ ot4 ma$)e in Hondras or (atema!a4 a!on6 %it# a JAO or a de*entra!iDed4
atonomos *orporation or somet#in6 !i3e t#at. O)vios!$4 t#ese t#in6s are sti!! in *odin6
)eta sta6es and no)od$s made a JAO4 &or a!! I 3no%. I see t#ere is o)vios!$ a !ot o&
potentia! %it# atonomos a6ents. I 3no% Mi3e Crrans ta!3ed a)ot t#is ;ite a )it. T#e
!istener4 i& t#e$re interested in JAOs its de*entra!iDed atonomos or6aniDations. T#ere is
no one *on*ise de&inition. I *o))!ed to6et#er prett$ m*# %#at Hita!i3 Bterin de&ines it as
t#is entit$ t#at !ives on t#e *#ain4 t#at a*tions *o!d on!$ *#an6e %it# a *ertain amont o&
votes. Basi*a!!$4 !i3e a m!ti"si6 entit$ in t#at it *o!d pa$ s#ares and it *o!d pa$ pa$ro!!. I
;ote $o4 e>tensive!$4 too in t#at *#apter as $o #ave a prett$ *oo! idea %it# de*entra!iDed
atonomos *onsenss p!at&orms4 I )e!ieve t#ats %#at $o se... 70.8@L9
%&': I 6ess I need to p)!is# t#at4 at some point. 70.80.9
TS: Its a 6ood paper. I !i3ed it. I 3no% Mi3e Crran #as #is o%n vie% and #e sa$s t#at m$
vie% is di&&erent t#an ever$one e!ses and it is. Atonomos a6ents4 t#e a*ta! term 6oes
)a*3 a)ot t#ree $ears i& $o !oo3 on t#e %i3i4 t#e Bit*oin %i3i4 it 6oes )a*3 to AmaDon %e)
servi*es )asi*a!!$4 tradin6 a pro6ram t#at pa$s itse!& and pa$s !a)or and *an rep!i*ate itse!&
on an AmaDon 2e) S#ard so i& it s**eeds4 it *an 6ro% on t#is s$stem and i& it doesnt do
%e!! t#en it %i!! s#rin3. T#e pro)!em4 o)vios!$4 %it# A2S is t#at it is *entra!iDed. I dont
t#in3 t#at ne*essari!$ a pro)!em )t prists %i!! sa$ t#at its a pro)!em. T#e idea %it#
de*entra!iDed atonomos is it moves it to %#ere its on a some 3ind o& *entra!iDed e>*#an6e
and it spposed!$ *an rep!a*e a!! t#e administrative or6ans o& an or6aniDation and so t#is
*o!d #e!p espe*ia!!$ %it# N(Os %it# t#eir over#eads4 pa$in6 -BC o& t#eir donations
to%ards administrators. T#e$ *o!d pa$ /..C to peop!e in t#e &ie!d #e!pin6 ot. T#ats a
prett$ *oo! idea. A6ain t#o6#4 I need to *ation !isteners a)ot t#e potentia! verss %#at
pro)a)!$ %i!! #appen. Gor e>amp!e4 in C#ina... t#is is t#e %a$ I te!! peop!e... %it# propert$
ri6#ts in C#ina4 most peop!e are 6iven a ,. $ear !ease4 t#ats %#at $o t#in3 $o #ave )$ t#e
State4 )t in pra*ti*e4 $o on!$ #ave !i3e a 0."B. $ear !ease and t#at !and *o!d )e 7inadi)!e9
an$ time it %ants )$ peop!e %it# 6ood 7reason=9. T#ere are 0 mi!!ion rra! C#inese %#o are
evi*ted ever$ $ear &rom t#e !and. T#e reason t#e$re evi*ted &rom t#e !and is )e*ase !o*a!
6overnments 6enerate a)ot ,.C o& t#eir anna! in*ome &rom !and sa!es. T#ese are rea!
nm)ers I *o!d 6ive $o a *itation. Eo end p #avin6 t#is ps# to%ards t#ese r)an areas
so $o #ave a)ot /-."/B. mi!!ion o& t#ese mi6rant %or3ers %#o end p t#ere %#ove 5st
)een evi*ted and t#e$ dont #ave an$ s3i!!s and t#e$ dont #ave an$ %a$ to #ave rea! 5sti*e4
i& $o %i!!. T#e idea is t#at JAOs *an #e!p %it# t#e pa$ro!!4 it *o!d #e!p %it# t#e *ontra*ts
and it *o!d #e!p t#em4 ma$)e4 %it# es*ro%s or even ar)itration. A!! t#ese t#in6s are *oo! in
t#eor$ and4 ma$)e4 *o!d #appen )t n!i3e!$ %o!d #appen in C#ina 5st )e*ase o& t#e %a$
t#e Fart$ apparats %or3s. I& I %as !istenin6 to t#is and $ore t#in3in6 o& %a$s to pt t#is4 I
%o!d 5st 6o to sma!!er *ontries or *ontries %it# a )etter r!e o& !a%. Ma$)e start
some%#ere in a poor area o& t#e IS4 %#ere t#ere is a !ot more nder")an3ed or nder"
privi!e6ed peop!e4 %#atever $o %ant to de&ine t#at parti*!ar se6ment as. Or $o 6o to
Hondras %#ere t#ere are a!! t#ese start"p *ities4 pro5e*ts and st&& !i3e t#at. Eea#4 JAOs
#ave t#is *oo! possi)i!it$ o& )ein6 a)!e to trst!ess!$ rearran6e or mana6e assets in a re!ative!$
transparent manner. O)vios!$4 t#ere are sti!! %ea3nesses on t#e ed6es and Id !i3e to see3
into %#at $o %ere ta!3in6 a)ot... $or *onsenss p!at&orm. 2o!d $o !i3e to mention a
!itt!e )it a)ot #o% $o envision t#is spa*e 6ro%in6= 70@80.9
%&': It sort o& &nn$. I read a!! t#ese papers and I dont %ind p p)!is#in6 a !ot o& t#em
)e*ase t#e$re not rea!!$... t#e$ tend to )e !on6 and not sita)!e &or p)!is#in6 rea!!$. T#at
one4 in a nts#e!!4 $o *an #ave an ot*ome t#at $o %ant to a*#ieve4 $o dont ne*essari!$
#ave to 3no% #o% to a*#ieve it4 $o t#en *an *reate a *r$pto*rren*$ )$ )$in6 into t#at
*r$pto to3en4 t#e$ im)e t#e ot*ome %it# va!e t#en on*e a *ertain t#res#o!d #as passed4
!i3e a Ki*3Starter *ampai6ns t#res#o!d4 t#en t#e entit$4 essentia!!$4 )e*omes a)!e to a*t on its
o%n and at t#e dire*tion o& its mem)ers. T#at to3en t#at peop!e 6et )a*34 t#en is sed as
voi*e %it#in t#e or6aniDation t#at $o dont spend $or voi*e4 $o e>er*ise $or voi*e4
essentia!!$. T#ere are a variet$ o& ot#er t#in6sA its a &air!$ *omp!i*ated isse )t t#e idea is
t#at i& $o ta3e a )i6 pi!e o& mone$ and $o set it aside %it# a sti*3er on it t#at sa$s T#is
mone$ *an on!$ )e 6iven to4 or retrieved4 or re!eased4 or %#atever to t#e person %#o ma3es
t#is ot*ome a rea!it$4 t#en %it# a de&!ationar$ *rren*$4 espe*ia!!$ over time4 t#at %i!! 6et to
)e a more and more and more and more attra*tive t#in64 nti! t#e e*onomi*s ma3es sense &or
it to a*ta!!$ #appen. Essentia!!$4 peop!e are *ommittin6 t#emse!ves to &nd an ot*ome4 not
*ommittin6 t#emse!ves to &nd a pro5e*t t#at mi6#t not s**eed. 7008B09
TS: Its rea!!$ *!everA I #ave to #and it to $o. T#ats %#$ I pt it in C#apter 04 I t#in34 is
%#ere its at. A6ain4 6oin6 )a*3 to t#ose s*epti*a! *omments I #ad at t#e ver$ )e6innin64 I
t#in3 t#at t#eres a !ot o& potentia! in t#is parti*!ar spa*e4 espe*ia!!$ i& $o 6o to t#e N(O
se6ment. T#e pro)!em4 in pra*ti*e t#o6#4 is N(Os dont pa$. A6ain !isteners4 i& $ore
e>pe*tin6 me to sa$ #o% t#is %ont %or34 Im not #ere to sa$ t#at. Im 5st 6oin6 to sa$
t#eres a !ot o& *oo! potentia! %it# t#is parti*!ar spa*e and $o need to *reate in*entives &or
peop!e to deve!op t#is *ode. I sspe*t peop!e %i!! *reate *ode &or t#is 5st )e*ase t#e$ %ant
to *#an6e t#e %or!d4 or %#atever. T#ats not ne*essari!$ sstaina)!e in t#e !on6 rn eit#er.
70B8@,9
%&': C#an6e t#e %or!d4 or %#atever... I !ove t#at. (La6#ter) 70B8@?9
TS: Eea#4 somet#in6 simp!e !i3e t#at4 ri6#t= 70B80-9
%&': Eo ta!3ed a)ot Sta)!e*oin and (ro%t#*oin. T#ose are t%o e>periments t#at I %as
not &ami!iar %it#. Are t#ere an$ ot#er t#in6s !i3e t#at t#at are 5st !i3e sper ni*#e= A6ain4
t#e *r$pto*rren*$ spa*e is so )i6 t#at even peop!e %#o spend a!! t#eir time pa$in6 attention
to it4 $o 5st *ant )e !oo3in6 ever$%#ere. 70B8B19
TS: T#eres anot#er one *a!!ed G!tter*oin )t t#ats prett$ m*# 7HOAs=9. T#e idea is
proo&"o&"transa*tion and it doesnt %or34 rea!!$4 in pra*ti*e. It )ro3e apart )t t#e idea is
prett$ *oo!. Eo )asi*a!!$ 6et paid to transa*t and in*entiviDe peop!e to spend4 so ma$)e t#is
is a %a$ to do tippin6A tippin6 in pra*ti*e so t#at %a$ $o dont #ave to re!$ on si!os. T#e
reason %#$ Jo6e is rea!!$ pop!ar4 or t#ese tip)ots4 is t#e$re *entra!iDed so t#e$re rea!!$
&ast4 and so on )t it de&eats t#e %#o!e prpose o& #avin6 a )!o*3*#ain. Ma$)e G!tter*oin
*o!d eventa!!$... some)od$ *o!d ta3e t#at and evo!ve it to somet#in6 t#at *o!d sti!! %or3
in a de*entra!iDed manner. I s#o!d point ot4 Im prett$ open to a!t*oins. I 3no% $o #ave a
6rop o& peop!e in Bit*oin %#o #ate t#emA t#e$ t#in3 t#at t#e$ destro$ it. T#ere are t%o
e*onomi* reasons &or %#$ a!t*oins %i!! a!%a$s e>ist. Nm)er one4 no)od$ 6ets paid to
deve!op Bit*oin *ode4 so i& $o #ave a ni;e s3i!! set4 i& $o *o!d )i!d a )!o*3*#ain %#i*#
on!$ ver$ &e% peop!e *an4 $o %ant to 6et paid &or t#at. I 3no% t#at sonds... it ma$)e
sonds *rass )t I dont t#in3 it does. Eo #ave )i!!s to pa$4 $o #ave a &ami!$ to &eed so $o
need to )e paid and so it *reates an in*entive to ma3e an a!t t#at %i!! pa$ $o. T#ats nm)er
one reason. T#e se*ond reason is %it# ASICs. ASICs are depre*iatin6 *apita! 6oods so t#e$
on!$ #ave a &or to si> mont# %indo% &or %#i*# t#e$ are pro&ita)!e )e&ore its no !on6er
*apa)!e o& #as#in6 and ma3in6 mone$. Eo need to trn t#ose *apita! 6oods into somet#in6
t#ats sti!! pro&ita)!e so $o *reate an a!t or $o trn it to%ards anot#er a!t. T#ese a!ts4 as a
res!t4 even t#o6# t#e$ started as pmp and dmps and t#ese s*ams and so on4 t#e$ve *ome
ot to )e... t#e ana!o6$ peop!e are sin6 no% is a Cam)rian e>p!osion o& 7sa*e=9. Eo #ave
t#is ne% mi>tre o& tria!s and tri)!ations. I 3no% t#at S// is an e>amp!e o& t#is. S// is a
di&&erent t$pe o& proo&"o&"%or3. Its e!even t$pes o& di&&i*!t$ settin6s t#at are )i!t into t#e
proto*o! and Jar3*oin %as one o& t#e &irst to imp!ement t#is. Im not ne*essari!$ endorsin6
Jar3*oin4 )$ t#e %a$ 6$s4 )t t#e idea is t#e$re tr$in6 ot %a$s to prevent ASICs
)e*omin6 t#e a*ta! %a$ to monetiDe t#ese *$*!es. Im not a6ainst ASICs4 Im 5st sa$in6
%#at #appens %it# ASICs is it !eads... on*e ASICs )e*ome *ommoditiDed4 t#e *ompetitive
advanta6e is ener6$4 so ever$one %i!! essentia!!$ 6o to %#ere t#e *#eapest ener6$ is4 %#i*#
*reates *entra!iDation and st&& !i3e t#at. T#e idea is4 %it# t#ese a!ts t#at %eve ta!3ed a)ot4
it 6ives $o a *#an*e to s*re% p on a *#ain and not destro$ NB"/.)n %ort# o& assets. I dont
%ant peop!e to #ave a ta3ea%a$ t#at Im )as#in6 Bit*oin *ore devs. I t#in3 t#e$ %or3 rea!!$
#ard4 t#e$ are nder"appre*iated and t#e mar3et doesnt va!e t#em4 even t#o6# ever$ones
&ree"ridin6 o&& o& t#eir se. Basi*a!!$4 $o #ave so*ia!iDed !a)or and privatiDed 6ames %it#
t#ese 6$s. T#e$ #ave to )e *atios %#en t#e$ deve!op *ode )e*ase t#e$ dont %ant to
destro$ )i!!ions o& do!!ars %ort# o& transa*tiona! *rren*$4 or store o& va!e or #o%ever $o
%ant to de&ine it. T#ese a!ts it 6ives $o a *#an*e %it# t#ese a!t*#ains to not )!o% p4 or
)an3rpt4 an e*onom$... a )i6 e*onom$ %#i*# is NBm %ort# o& st&&. I #ate to even sa$ NBm
is not %ort# m*# )t i& Jo6e*oin )!o%s p4 &or e>amp!e4 its on!$ N@-m %ort# o& mone$
spp!$4 a!most @ orders o& ma6nitde !ess t#an Bit*oin. Eo %ont #ave peop!e 5mpin6 o&&
)i!din6s or4 at !east4 #ope&!!$ $o %ont #ave peop!e 5mpin6 o&& )i!din6s. 70?8//9
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
C+E)-TS:
T#an3s &or !istenin6 to Episode //1 o& Lets Ta!3 Bit*oin.
Content &or t#is episode %as provided )$ Tim S%anson4 Step#anie Mrp#$ and Adam
B. Levine
T#is episode %as edited )$ Jenise Levine and Adam Levine
Msi* &or t#is episode %as provided )$ +ared <)ens and Jirt$ Beats
An$ ;estions or *omments= Emai! adamP!etsta!3)it*oin.*om.
Have a 6ood oneT 70?8@B9