10/20/13 BOMB Magazine: Roni Horn by Mimi Thompson

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THEARTISTSVOICESINCE1981
BOMBSITE
RoniHorn
byMimiThompson
BOMB28/Summer1989,ART

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RoniHorn.PhotobyPeterBellamy1989.
RoniHornworksinaBrooklynstudiofullofmachinedobjects,drawingsin
progressandpinkconeshapedmoldsthebeginningsofnewsculpture.Ona
tablearephotographstakeninIceland,alocationthathasbeenaninspiration
andkeyinfluence.

MIMITHOMPSON HowdidyouendupchoosingIcelandasaplacetogo?
RONIHORN ItsaquestionthatImalwaysaskedandIdonthavearealanswer
forit.IoncelookedIcelandupinthedictionaryanditfellbetweenicehockey
andiceskating.ThatsprettymuchascontrolledachoiceasImade.Buthaving
gonethere,thereevolvedarelationshipthatIcouldntseparatemyselffrom.
EachtimeIdgo,therewouldbeengenderedtheideatogobackandbackand
back.Iguesstherealreasonistherelationshiptoyourselfthatispossibleina
placelikethat.Theresnothingmediatingit.Thereisnothingtoobscureormake
morecomplexaperceptionorapresence.
MT Andyetitshighlydramatic.
RHThedramacomesfromitsyouth.Thelandscapeisuniqueinthatthe
geologyisveryyoung.Itslikealabyrinthinthedefinitivesense.Itsbigenough
togetlostin,butsmallenoughtofindyourself.Thereislittleerosionand,asa
result,unexpectedsymmetriesexistinunexpectedplaces.Americahas
everythingIcelandhas,butitstenthousand,twentythousand,onehundred
thousandyearsolder,dependingonwhereyoulook.Growingupinaveryold
landscapeNewYorkCityitsoriginsaresecretedfromthepresent.Imean
thatthegeologicalaspectofthelandscapeinNewYorkCitycanonlybe
experiencedtheoreticallyatthispoint.InIceland,youunderstandempirically
exactlywhatthisplaceis:itswhatandhow.Thataccessibilityeffectsthenature
ofonesexperience,theexperienceoftheworld.Anyplaceyouregoingtostand
in,inanygivenmoment,isacomplementtotherestoftheworld,historically
andempirically.Whatyoucanseeinthatmoment,whatyoucantouchinthat
moment,isconfluentwitheverythingelse.
MT Isthiscountryakindofarmatureforyourideas?
RHNo.Ifyouvebeeneatingsomethingforalongtimeorifyouvebeen
committingcertainactsforalongtime,theyenteryourvocabularyandyoupiss
themoutinacertainway.IthinkIcelandissomethingIvebeenconsumingfora
longtime.HowiteffectswhatIdoormyproductsexcrementorsculptureis
notinaparticularlygraphicway,butinapalpableandundeniableway.Its
definitelynotaliteralinfluence.

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RoniHorn,PairObjectIII:ForTwoRooms(detail),1988,twosolidforgedandmachined
copperforms17diametertaperingto12diameterover35,with5/8convexityatsmallend.
CourtesyofGalerieLelong.
MT Thereseemstobearomanticnotioninyourworkasearchforpurityof
form,ofanidealstate.
RHIdontknowaboutpurity.
MT Fewofusdo.
RHIseetheseobjectsthatIproduceasexistinginaveryimpureworld,
fraughtwithentropyanddirt.Buttheimpuritydoesnotcomefromthedirt.That
is,theworldisalsofraughtwithPlato,sotospeak.(Theworldisakindof
hybridoramalgamationoftheseforms.Animpuritywithpureelements.)
ThedirtIamtalkingaboutisnotjusttheliteraldebrisoftime,butthenatureof
circumstancewhichistheconditionofthingsastheyare.Usuallythiscondition
isextremelycomplexandlessthanideal.IbelievetheobjectsImakemust
recognizetheseextremesactivelyand,tosomeextent,astheconditionsoftheir
existence.Inthemostrecentinstallation,PairObjectVI:ForTwoLocationsin
OnePlace,twosolidmachinedcopperconesaredumpedontheirsides.What
arenormallythebasesarenowvisibleastwo13disks,directlyaddressingthe
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viewersdescentintothespace.Untiltheviewerisactuallyintheroom,thetwo
disksarepresentonlyasgraphictwodimensionalforms:acircleandanellipse,
operatinginthreedimensionalspace.
Theseareobjectstowhichthewordsplatonicandpurewouldnotbe
inappropriate.Butthatisonlytrueifyouconsiderthemasobjectsin
themselves.Theinstallationoftheseformsreflectsanacuteawarenessof
circumstantialreality.Inthissense,theycannotbetakensimplyasobjectsin
themselves.Thereisalsotheissueoftheirbeingapair.
Thatis,thepairform,byvirtueoftheconditionofbeingdouble,activelyrefuses
thepossibilityofbeingexperiencedasathinginitself.Thesimplestateof
doublenessincludes,asintegral,thespaceorintervalbetween.Sotwiceover,
thisworkinsistsonarecognitionofcircumstance.Icompletedaworklastyear
whichalsousesthepairform:PairObjectsII:ForTwoRooms.Twoidentical
solidmachinedcopperobjectsareplacedinneighboringspaces.Theviewer
walksintothefirstroomandseesthefirstobject.Experiencedasaunique
thing.Walkingintothesecondroom,anidenticalobjectispresentinanidentical
relationtotheworld.Theviewerrunsthroughaverycomplexnarrativeinreal
timewhichistheexperienceoftheworkitself.
Basically,Imtalkingaboutthingswhichareformallyredundantand
experientiallycumulative.Thenarrativeinvolvestherecognitionofuniqueness
throughthesequentialexperienceofthingswhichareidentical.Thenthe
subsequentandirreversiblelossoftheuniqueidentity.Obviouslythenotionof
beingidenticalisapurelyidealonesincewhenyouhavetwothings,nomatter
howperfecttheidentity,youalwayshaveathisandathat,ahereandathere.
Inbothpiecesweretalkingaboutthecriticalroleofrelationindefiningthe
form.
MT Isthispure/impurearomanticideal?
RHMyworkcertainlyincludeselementswhichmightbeunderstoodas
romantic.Buttheoverallsynthesislieselsewhere.
HereinFebruary1989,ifyoulookatmostcontemporarywork,weretalking
aboutsculpturethatisproducedtofulfilltheneedsofdomesticspacetoa
degreethatisnotacknowledged.Youhavethishighlytamed,conventionalized
contextinwhichtheartobjectisperceivedtoexist.Thenotionofdomestic
spaceaccountsformaybefivepercentoftheoptionsoftheexistenceofspace,
soitspossiblethatfivepercentoftheworkwouldaddressdomesticspace.That
kindofpastoralcomfortthatsofferedindomesticspacethatscaleofevents,
thatkindofinertiamysculptureisrarelyabletoexistinthoseterms.Ona
physicallevel,ifyouthinkaboutsculptureexistingingeologicalterms,which
arethetermsIthinkabout(andIdontmeanthatasaconceit),thenwere
talkingaboutamaterial,physicalrealitybeingpresentintheworldofnatural
forces.
GettingbacktothePairObjects,thesearentprettyshapesstandinginaspace
andusingmaterialinanarbitraryway.Thewholetraditionofmakingattractive
shapeswithattractivematerialsthebronzecastingtraditiontonameone,is
reallyoffensiveatthispoint.Thistraditionstrivesforthesameadvantageover
pragmaticrealitythatpaintingsachievethroughtheirexistenceina
conventionalizedspace.Butwhichisalsopartoftheirform.Iamtalkingabouta
grossmisunderstandingofsculpture.Thatis,themakingofobjectsasmerely
thingsthathaveshapeinthreedimensions,butrefusetheresponsibilityof
existenceinthreedimensions.

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RoniHorn,PairObjectVI:ForTwoLocationsinOnePlace,installationatJayGorney,entrance
view,1989,twosolidforgedandmachinedcoppercones,13diameterx11height.Courtesy
ofJayGorney.
MT Yourinterestinlandscapehasbeenaboutchangingcertainurbanor
architecturalenvironmentsby,inyourwords,resettingthespace.Doyouever
thinkaboutworkingmoredirectlywithnature?
RHIthinkaboutwhatIhaveaccessto.Outdoorpiecesinterestmeagreat
deal,butIrefusetoproduceobjectswhichwillexistfortwotosixmonthson
budgetsof$10,000.Thisisnotsomethingworthentertaining.And,forthemost
part,IrarelyentertaincompetitivecommissionsasoptionsbecauseIfeelthatif
youregoingtodevelopaform,thenecessityfortheformisalsopresent.It
meansyoumustrealizethework.Itsapieceofyouridentity.
MT Itsapieceofyourtime.
RHYes,anditsnotadivorceableflirtationwithasociallyacceptablepossibility.
MT Soyouseetheneedforthepiecetocontinueforalongtime.
RHInrealtime.Idontcareifitslongorifitsshortaslongasitsreal.
MT Youwouldntworkwithmaterialsthatdisintegrate?
RHIhavepowderedgraphitepieces.
MT Butnotactuallyintheland,inthedirt,inthelandscapethatinvolvesyou.
RHIthinkthelongevityofthepiecesdependsontheobjectsrelationshiptothe
world,butitsactivelychosenandactivelycongealedinthisform.Itslongevity
isaproductofconsolidatingtheserelationships.Itsnotsomethingthats
expeditedbyapoliticaldecision.Thedurationofapieceshouldnotallowitself
tobecompromisedbythesethings.

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Iceland,HornBjarg.
MT Iagreewithyouthere.ButwhatImthinkingaboutisyourdesiretogetas
closeasyoucantothesourcewithoutanythingmediatingyourrelationshipto
thematerial.Youwanttogetasclosetothesunasyoucan.
RHThoreausaidthat.Andhislifewasreallyspentgettingridofanymediating
element.Ididthisgoldpiecein1982,aproductofbeingapawnbrokers
daughter.MyfatherhadapawnshopinHarlemanditwasaninventoryof
objectsmostofwhichweremadeofgold.Thethingthatwasmostimpressive
aboutmyfathersgoldwasthatitwasjustaveryanonymousyellowmetal.I
couldneverreconcileittotheliteraryexperienceofgold,whichwasthis
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materialcapableofsplendorlikeJasonandtheGoldenFleece.Ineverhadthe
experienceofgold.
MT Itwasacommodity.
RHItwasacommodity,butitwasdecorativeandyoucouldalloyitwith
materialsthatwouldultimatelytakeawayitsidentity.Ithadthisimagevalue
whichwasneverheldupbyitscorporalreality.Thegoldpiecewasabouttaking
awayallofthesecivilizingcorruptionsthatgoldhadgonethrough,whether
beingusedasasurfacephenomenonorasjewelry.Myideawastogivebackto
golditscorporalpresence,toletitbeonehundredpercentwhatitis.Youvegot
thisextraordinarymaterialwhichiscapableofexistinginmundanereality.Its
notsoplatonicthatitwontadmittoaverydirectrelationwithnaturalforces.
Whenitinteractswiththesun,yougetthesunasfirstexperience,asan
empiricalreality.IunderstoodJasonandtheGoldenFleecewhenIdidthat
piece,butIdidnthavethatexperienceuntilIdidthatpiece.
Backtothelandscapemallarchitectureisvernacularmallasalandscape.
Usuallyvernaculararchitectureisassociatedwithindigenousmaterials.Now,
however,weretalkingaboutalandscapedictatedbysocialandpolitical
parameters.Thesethingsdominatethecontext.
MT Thefactofarchitectureusingindigenousmaterialsisntreallyafactornow.
Materialsareglobal.
RHYouhavepostindustrialindigenousnow.Mostpetroleumproductsare
comingfromtheMiddleEast.SalmanRushdieisaffectingthepriceofplastics
today.Thevernacularencompassestheglobeinaveryliteralsensein1989.In
thepast,thenotionofglobewasaromanticgesture.Thatis,theexperienceof
otherpartsoftheworldwaslargelyagestureoftheimagination.Peopledidnt
knowwhatwentonbeyondtheirimmediatesurroundings.KafkawroteAmerika
outofthisawareness.Eventhoughitisakindofcomedy,hisknowledgeofthe
countryishalffantasy.Obviouslynow,themediamakesthedistantnear,and
entirelyvisible.Itgivesconcretenessandcredibilitytowhatisnotimmediately
present.Now,wevereallygotitandIdontthinkitsromanticandIdontthink
itsquantitativelyless.
MT Justradicallydifferent.Soyourchoiceoflandscapeasaninspirationand
referenceisreallyapoliticalchoice.
RHYes,becauseIdontseeitasbeingabouttreesanddirt.Iseeitasdefining
whattheidentityofagivenplaceis.
MT Iwasinterestedinthechangeinsurfaceinthesenewpairobjectpiecesin
contrasttotheearlierleadpieceswhichwereveryhandled.
RHTheleadpiecesarereallyoneononeobjects.Theyneededashapethat
wasuniqueinordertoridthemofmetaphorortoapproachthat.Thesepair
objectsaremachined.Theyarequantitativelyidenticalandqualitatively
identical.AndthatiswhyIusedmachinetechnology,tocreateidenticalthings.I
havenospecialattachmenttohandtechniquesortheuseofadvanced
technology.ThetechniquesareselectedfreelybasedontheformIamworking
with.
MT Itsaboutreplication.
RHYes,itsaboutreplicationandidentity,ofbeingabletoreproduceidentities,
butnotinfinitely.Althoughmachiningholdsthatpossibility.Itsjustabouttwo
objectsandthespacebetweenthemwhichisinseparablefromthem.
MT Yourestartingwithtwoinsteadofonedenyingoneindividualthingora
senseofoneness.
RHYes,Ithinkthatstrue.Withoneobject,itspresenceisemanatingoutinto
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theworldwithitasitscenter.Withtwoobjectsthatareoneobject,youhavean
integraluseoftheworld.Youhavethenecessaryinclusionofcircumstance.
MT Itslikehavingtwosuns,twoorbits.
RHTwosuns?Yes.ThereisapieceIdidin1986,WhentheHowandthe
WhataretheSame,whichistwospheres.Theconditionofthesphereisthat
youcanapproachfromanypointinspaceandstillseethesamething.Itspretty
radical,conceptually.Theotheraspectofthesphereisthatitsactivelyanoun
andaverbitcarriesbothidentities.Itcentersanditisthecenter,
simultaneously.

RoniHorn,TheXV,1988,powderpigmentandvarnishonpaper,19201/2.
MT Theviewerapproachesyourworkfromabove.Usually,allthepiecessiton
thefloor.
RHTherewerethePostWorkswhichareupabove.Theyleanagainstthewall
andalltheactiontakesplaceupabove.Theyreallapproachedfromthepointof
viewoftheaveragehumanpresence.Thingsdontexistunlessyouexperience
them.Fromthepointofviewofthemaker,theyallnecessarilyexistapriori.
Theyareessentialtotheartistsexistence.Theseobjectsexistinveryliteral
relationshiptohumanpresence,notwithouthumanpresencenotinthemaking
andnotintheviewing.
MT Soyoureallydisagreewithsomeofthebasictenetsofminimalism?
RHImnotattemptingtodiscountitinmywork.But,inmanyways,myworkis
acriticismofminimalism.Usinggeometryisntenoughtoplaceitinthecontext
ofminimalism.Theattitudetowardsmakingobjectsasseparatefromhuman
experienceisnotoneIcanparticipatein.Idontseegeometryasanabstractor
conceptualthing.LaFontainesaid,Shallitbeagod,atableorapot?That
seemstocometomindwithpieceslikethecones.Myuseofgeometryandthe
geometriesthemselvesaresomundane.Itistheirconnectiontocircumstance
thisadulteratesthepuritymakethegeometryoftheworld,notidealistically
detached.ThereisasenseinwhichtheconeshapeImusingnowhasnoidentity
otherthanasetofproportionsandashape.Ithasnomaterialreality.Ithasno
analogintherealworld.Itsusevalueistheexperienceitprovidesfor.Asa
humanbeing,theepitomeofusevalueisexperienceandthisisyourconsumer
product.

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