Professional Documents
Culture Documents
Four Decadesat ITBombay
Four Decadesat ITBombay
Four Decadesat ITBombay
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FOUR DECADES
AT IIT BOMBAY
s.p. sukhatme
in conversation with rohit m anchanda
Contents
preface 7
1. recollections 11
Joining the Institute 12
First Impressions 18
The Early Years 24
Previous Directors 27
Faculty Colleagues and Other Staff 53
Initiatives as the Director 67
My Team 96
Directors of Other iits 100
Chairmen of the Board of Governors 107
Officials in the Ministry of hrd 112
11. reflections 115
On Teaching and Research 116
At the Institutional Level 125
On Students and Alumni 145
111. thoughts for the future 157
about the author 180
about the interviewer 181
abbreviations 182
PR EFAC E
The Indian Institute of Technology, Bombay, came into existence in 1958 and it is currently celebrating its Golden Jubilee.
As part of many activities during this year, a book on the history
of iit Bombay has been written by Professor Rohit Manchanda,
a faculty member of the Institute. The book entitled Monastery,
Sanctuary, Laboratory describes the story behind the creation of
the iits after independence, the steps taken for the formation
of iit Bombay, and the early years first in Worli and subsequently in Powai. It then goes on to trace the growth and evolution of
the Institute to its present position where it has achieved a certain amount of global distinction.
I was closely associated with the writing of the book as a member of an Institute Committee appointed to help Rohit. In the
course of writing the book, he had to collect a large amount of
information from the past. Among other things, he browsed annual reports, Senate reports, agenda and minutes of meetings of
the Board of Governors, and correspondence and papers of the
Directors of the Institute. He has also relied on the information
supplied by various faculty members (past and present), alumni
and many other persons associated with the Institute in various
capacities. This information was generally obtained by recording
interviews with the persons concerned.
As part of his information-gathering mission, Rohit spent quite
a few hours with me in December 2006. We had five sessions,
lasting for about seven or eight hours and these conversations,
in which Rohit posed the questions and I did most of the speaking, were recorded. In his book, Rohit has used a small amount
suhas p. sukhatme
October 2008
C HAP T E R I
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RECOLLECTIONS
JOI N I N G T H E I N S T I T U T E
12
sps: Well, first of all Rohit, thank you for having me on this programme. I will try to do my best so that you get adequate information and we get a fine history book written. Now to your
question
It is interesting that events sometimes unfold in a very natural way. I received my Doctor of Science degree from mit in
1964. After that I was working in the usa, in a company in Cambridge, Massachusetts. While I was working, I was pretty sure
that I wanted to return to India and I was sure too that I wanted to teach. By teach, I dont mean just teach. I mean teaching
and research. As it happens, that was the period when the iits
had just been set up. iit Kharagpur was the oldest one established in 1951. iit Bombay was set up in 1958 with assistance
from the ussr, followed by the iits at Madras, Kanpur and Delhi which received assistance from West Germany, the usa and
the uk respectively. All were new institutes and the idea behind
setting them up was exciting because they were expected to set
new trends in engineering education and research in the country.
Even in the usa at that time, one got a feel that something new
was happening, even though communication was not what it is
today. But I was pretty sure that I wanted to come back to India
and that if I wanted to teach and do research, an iit would be the
place for me to go. By the way, I was also interested in a research
career by itself. Atomic Energy was one area in which I was interested. In fact, the thesis work which I did for my doctoral
degree was sponsored by the usa Atomic Energy Commission.
I had a deep interest in atomic energy then and it continues to
this day.
So in 1964, when I was working in the usa, I wrote a number of
letters to various persons in India. I wrote to the Directors of
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iit Bombay and iit Delhi. I also wrote to Dr. Bhabha directly
and one or two other persons. I sent a one-page biodata and a
covering letter stating my interest in a teaching and research
career. One of the first to reply was iit Bombay and interestingly
enough, it was Brigadier Bose, the Director who himself replied.
He wrote saying, I am glad to receive your letter indicating your
interest in coming here. At your level, we would probably take
you as an Assistant Professor. (He was straight away telling me
that he would be able to make an offer!) I would certainly be
interested in knowing your plans to come back so that we can
discuss the matter further. This was the substance of what he
wrote. It was a short letter, but what I appreciated was that he
took the time to reply to me immediately. My recollection is that
the Director of iit Delhi did not reply to me. However, I did
get an envelope from iit Delhi containing an application form
for a faculty position. From the Atomic Energy Establishment,
Dr. Bhabha also did not reply, but I got a letter from their
Administrative Officer saying that they were happy to know
that I was intending to return to India. The officer went on to
say that I should contact them after returning to India and they
would see what could be done. Now obviously that is not the
way you want things to move. You dont want to come back all
the way and then see whether you are going to get a job. I was
looking for some job offer from India, while I was working in the
usa. One or two other places also indicated their interest in me.
The two iits were of interest to mei it Delhi and iit Bombay.
iit Delhi was of interest because I grew up in Delhi and iit
Bombay because my mother tongue is Marathi. Of course, prior
to that I had not stayed in Bombay, only visited it a few times.
Interestingly enough, when I went to the usa in the September of 1958, iit Bombay had just started functioning. While
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going to America, I stayed in Bombay for four or five days. Professor Katti, whom I knew, had just joined iit Bombay. He had
completed his Ph.D in Soil Mechanics from Iowa State University and received a job offer as Assistant Professor from iit
Bombay while in the usa. When he came to know that I was
in Bombay, he said Why dont you come over to our Institute?
I want to show it to you. It is temporarily in Worli in a building belonging to the Silk & Art Silk Mills Research Association
(s asmira). He gave me directions for coming to Worli by bus
and we agreed to meet at four in the afternoon. So I went there.
Professor Katti was very happy to see me and he showed me
round. He had been there only two months, but was full of enthusiasm. I remember he introduced me to Professor Kelkar. Professor Kelkar was then the Planning Officer of the Institute. At that
time, there was no Director. Thus it is very interesting that my
first association with iit Bombay occurred sort of unwittingly.
I had no idea at that time that eventually I would come back to
work at the Institute.
Coming back to 1964, I got the application forms from iit
Bombay and iit Delhi and filled them up. My application to
iit Bombay was considered in absence by a selection committee. There was no interview and I was offered the post of an Assistant Professor with some increments. This was unusual for
iit Bombay at that time. iit Delhi also replied to me. At that
time, Mr. K.B. Chandiramani was the Educational Adviser in the
Ministry of Education. He was closely involved in the setting up
of the iits and was visiting the usa. The Director of iit Delhi,
Professor Dogra, requested him to meet me. So he called me up
when he was in Boston and expressed his desire to meet me. We
met for half-an-hour. It was a brief meeting, not an interview. I
think he was supposed to carry some impressions back. He did
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and apparently they were positive because iit Delhi also sent
me an offer of a faculty position as an Assistant Professor. So I
had two offers and I had to choose between them.
I really cannot tell you why I chose iit Bombay. As I said, I grew
up in Delhi and had some affinity for Delhi. But somehow, I felt
that Bombay was the better place at that point of time. It is possible that my decision was subconsciously influenced by the fact
that Brigadier Bose himself wrote to me. Perhaps it made a difference. It is possibleit does make a difference. As I said, he
wrote very short letters. But he used to take the trouble to write
himself. When I had accepted the position (after I had thought
it over), I wrote back to him saying I am accepting your offer,
but I need some time to join because I am working in the usa. I
need six months. And he said that was acceptable.
rm: So again he replied ?
sps: Yes, he wrote to me. I still have that letter with me saying
I am happy you have accepted. You have asked for six months
time so I expect you will join us in October. But please dont ask
for a further extension. That will be difficult for me to give.
I thought that was very fair. And so the die was cast, so to speak,
and I joined here on the 11th of October 1965. I still remember
the day. It was a Monday. That is how it all began.
rm: So it would appear that even from the early days, an institution such as iit Bombay was taking what are now known as proactive measures. You spoke about the additional increments you
were offered, you spoke about Professor Bose replying to you directly. So it would appear as if, when there was an outstanding
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candidate in sight, the Institute would go out of its way to attract him. Of course, the tradition has been continued over the
years, but I never knew that it started so early.
sps: Thats right. And you know, these actions do influence you.
Later on as the Director, I tried to play a similar pro-active role
in recruiting faculty. If I spotted a good person, either I would act
or I would request the Head of the Department to act on my behalf and pursue the candidate by indicating our interest. I think
it is still being done at our Institute and that is one of the reasons
why iit Bombay gets good faculty.
r m: Do you have any memories of any other colleagues who
might have joined around the same time as you and were recruited in a similarly enthusiastic fashion ?
sps: I think there were a few, but not many. I know that Professor Kar joined the Department of Mechanical Engineering two
years before me. He also had a Ph.D from the usa. If my recollection is correct, he also came straight from the usa and joined
here. I do not know what he was offered and whether he was given increments. Another faculty member who joined in Civil Engineering around 1969 was one Dr. Kelkar. I am pretty sure he
was given some increments. He was even reimbursed for his air
ticket from usa to India. So I was not an exception.
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F I R S T I M PR E S SION S
rm: Your first encounter with iit was in September 1958 when
you were on your way to the usa. But then when you came back
to join, the Institute had shifted from Worli to Powai and so you
were confronted with a new landscape, a new setting all together. Could you perhaps recall for us your initial impressions when
you joined here? Your initial impressions of the campus and the
physical setting that you hadnt encountered before. And then
perhaps move on to the academic environment that had already
been created in the first few years.
sps: When I joined, the Institute was seven years old. The departments had been set up. On the campus, we had separate
buildings as exist now for Mechanical Engineering, Civil, Electrical and Metallurgical Engineering and Physics on one side of
a long corridor. Then on the other side, we had Chemical Engineering and Chemistry and the annexes of Civil and Electrical
Engineering. We also had the bays housing the workshops and
laboratories. And of course, the Technical-cum-Storage Sheds
(t cs). So in a sense, a certain structure existeda physical structure. I think we had eight hostels then. Hostels 9 and 10 were
built a few years after I joined. The main roads were all laid out
in 1965 though they were a lot narrower then. My first impression was that it was a very pretty campus. October is not the
best time for an outsider to come to Bombay. It is hot, it is humid and it is dusty. I wouldnt recommend it to anyone else. But
the fact is you cannot quite choose the time when you are going to join. Even then, my first impressions were What a beautiful campus! Quiet, serene. The palm trees lining the side of
the main road were a source of joy, as was the quiet lake. Watch-
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ing the sun set over the lake with the hills of Powai in the background was sheer ecstasy. These were things which straightaway
attracted me. I stayed in the Staff Hostel in Room 23 a single
room overlooking the lake. This room had been allotted to me in
advance and was available on the day I joined. All in all, the campus made a very good impression on me with its natural setting
and its new buildings.
Then, of course, I interacted with the faculty. I joined in October in the middle of the semester and had no teaching to do during that semester. My teaching was to begin in January and I had
about two months to settle down. In that time, I could go to the
library, meet people and come to know them. All this was in a
way good. So I met faculty, one by one, and my general impression about the faculty (and this stayed with me over the years)
was that they were a very dedicated group. My earlier impressions of teachers in India came from the Banaras Engineering
College. In Banaras also, the teachers were dedicated. But here
at iit Bombay, if anything there was even more dedication. It
was very noticeable. Every one took his job seriously. This was
the first thing which struck me about the Mechanical Engineering Department. Obviously, I cannot speak for all departments
because my initial interactions were limited.
The second thing which immediately occurred to me was that
though we had a ussr influence (so to speak), the autonomy given to the teacher was complete. An instructor was the person
who decided everything as far as his course, his subject for the
semester was concerned. It is still like that today. The syllabus
was broadly written, but it was for the instructor, the teacher to
convert as much of the syllabus into reality as he could. He could
alter it a little. Question papers were set by the person teaching
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the course and the answer books were corrected by him. The only external examiners were those who came to judge the B.Tech
home papers and the M.Tech and Ph.D theses.
r m: Was it a surprise for you that this sort of system existed
here? Had you not expected it?
sps: I hadnt expected it. Because you see I had been to Banaras
as a student where there was a rigid syllabus, you were taught
through the year and at the end of the year, exams were held.
There was a question paper set by somebody whom you never
saw and never came to knowthe traditional university system.
And then two months later, the results would be announced. In
contrast, here everything was internal, which is what I had got
used to in the usa. So it was a pleasant surprise to see that this academic autonomy existed at our iit right from the beginning.
rm: I am very interested to learn that you had not known about
this before, the academic autonomy part of it at least.
How much of the reputations of the iits had sprinkled over to
the usa during the time that you were there at mit? How much
did one know about the iits?
sps: Not too much. I just knew that the iits had been set up and
I had met a few alumni who had passed out of the iit system.
For instance, I met Bharat Shiralkar from the 62 batch. He had
stood first in Mechanical Engineering at iit Bombay and then
came to mit as a graduate student. It was about the time I was
leaving mit. But beyond meeting a few alumni, I really didnt
know much about the iits.
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people were aware that research work had to begin at the Institute. That was clear to them. That feeling was in the air.
r m: Was it simply because of the lack of time that one could
spare towards research? Or was it something to do with the
ethos that prevailed at that time?
sps: It was not just lack of time. Time was one factor because
many of the faculty members were associated with setting up
laboratories and that takes a lot of effort. But it was not just
time. I would say that some could have had the time for research,
but the facilities for doing research were exceedingly poor. You
know, iit Bombay was set up with help from the ussr and we
got a fair amount of equipment and instruments from there. In
addition, many of our younger faculty went to the ussr for doing their candidates degree, equivalent to a Ph.D. But you know
communication with the ussr was never smooth. For example,
suppose as part of the programme of assistance, some equipment
was to come. You would want communication between someone
on this side who was to receive the equipment and someone on
that side who was to send it. The person here would tell what
was needed and lists would be sent back and forth. That never
really happened with the ussr. What happened was that packages came directly that had to be collected from the docks. And
so some of the equipment wasnt that useful and certainly it was
not something that came because somebody here wanted it. It
came because somebody there thought it would be useful. Thats
not a good situation to be in, but really that is what happened.
So barring a few laboratories here and there in the Institute, facilities in the form of high class instrumentation or equipment
were just not there for us to do quality work.
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23
E A R LY Y E A R S
r m: How much time, how many years did it take you to start
your research activities and do something worthwhile?
sps: I think that the first good quality research that I did was
probably around 1968 or 69, three or four years after I joined.
The initial years were spent mostly in setting up the lab, experiments for students and things like that. The first really good
quality work which got published in a good journal, the Journal of Heat Transfer of the asme, was in 1969. It was the first
Masters thesis done under my supervision and interestingly, the
student was Professor G.K. Sharma of our Institute, who was a
young lecturer then. I took care to identify a problem which was
doable from the point of view of our facilities and yet worthwhile
from the point of view of research at an international level.
rm: Otherwise it wouldnt have got published.
sps: Yes, it wouldnt have been published. And that is what is important when you come back. You cant say, This is the research
I did with sophisticated instruments in the usa and I am going
to do similar work here in India. I would have been nowhere.
In the usa, I had done experimental work on condensing mercury, something that was fairly high flown stuff even for the usa.
A lot of care was needed and safety measures taken. Obviously I
couldnt have come back and said this is what I know and this is
what I am going to do. So it took some time, but eventually I did
settle on some problems which were worthwhile and doable, and
worked on them with my students.
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PR E V IOU S DI R E C T OR S
rm: Perhaps we could now move on to the people that you came
across and your recollections about them, first the other Directors who preceded you. You would have seen Professor Bose in
action, following that Professor Kelkar, then Professor De, Professor Bedford and Professor Nag. So in various capacities, how
did they come across? What were their styles of functioning?
What were their quintessential characteristics?
sps: Well, thats a tall order! I was fortunate to be associated
with each of them. I will speak in general terms and try to give
an overview.
Professor Bose was the founder Director of the Institute. He
joined in 1959 and was the Director up to 1969.It was during
the early part of his tenure that the Institute moved from Worli to Powai. He was the one associated with the initial construction work, getting it moving and I think a lot of credit is due to
him for having got the Institute going on the new campus. It
was a time in which both steel and cement were in short supply and their sale was controlled, and to add to this, we had the
war with China.
First a few words about the setting. Powai was an isolated place
in the early sixties. It was isolated even when I joined in 1965.
We had just one bus route from Vikhroli station to here; that
was 392. The other bus route was 337 which used to go past the
iit from Ghatkopar to Andheri. It was not a frequent service.
So 392 was the lifeline to the Institute. The last bus used to leave
Vikhroli station at 9.40 pm. If you wanted to return to the Insti-
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tute by bus, you had to be on a local train which would get you
to Vikhroli before 9.40. Sometimes, we used to come out of the
local and run to catch the last bus. At that time, it used to stop
on the slope going down to the station.
But to come back to Professor Bosewe owe a lot to him for
getting the physical structure in place as quickly as possible.
He was a civil engineer, came from the army and had been associated with a lot of construction work. He knew how to get
things done. However, quality did suffer on account of the hurry and shortage of materials and we have paid heavily for it in
later years.
I have mentioned earlier that one of the reasons I joined here
was that I liked his style. That he took the time to reply to me.
That was one of his characteristics. I would say he probably
knew all the faculty members by name. The number was a little
smaller than now and we used to meet more frequently at Staff
Club functions and other occasions. With fewer outside distractions, people tend to get together. If Professor Bose met a faculty member during any function, he would enquire about the
family and so on. I think he liked doing that. At heart, he was an
exceedingly nice person.
Here I must recall what happened when I first met Professor Bose. I told you, I joined on Monday, October 11th, 1965. I
was staying with my uncle in Colaba. When I asked him how I
should go to iit, he said,I am not too sure, but Powai means
you have to go somewhere near Powai Gardens. To go there,
we used to get off at Vikhroli station and take a bus. So your
best bet is to get off at Vikhroli and take a bus or a taxi. There
were no rickshaws back then. So I did as my uncle had sug-
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gested. There was just one taxi standing outside Vikhroli station. He took rs 2 and dropped me at the Main Building of
the Institute at 11.30. I asked for the Directors office and was
guided upstairs. I went up, met his secretary, one Mr. Kulkarni,
and introduced myself. He went inside and told the Director
that I had come. Professor Bose was with somebody then, but
called me in. As soon as I went in, he said,I am happy you have
come. We have been looking forward to your joining. It is very
good. Then he said something very interesting. He looked at
his watch and said, It is quarter to twelve. You know what you
should do first. You should go upstairs and sign your joining report. If you dont sign before noon, it will mean that you have
joined in the afternoon and if you have joined in the afternoon,
you will only get half a days pay for today. You dont want to
lose half a days pay, do you? I said,No. Half a days pay was
about rs 20 at that time. He told his secretary to phone upstairs in the Administration office. Mr. Sherikar was the concerned person. He was an Office Superintendent then. Later
on he became the Deputy Registrar. So I went up and signed
the joining report. That was my first encounter with Professor
Bose. You see he looked at things in a very practical manner.
I met him off and on, sometimes in his office but more often
at some function in the evening. He was the same age as my father. So the relationship was also like that. I respected him a
lot and he in turn had a soft corner for younger faculty. His attitude was, so long as they are doing well, working hard, thats
fine. That was his way of handling things. Overall, these impressions about him remained with me. He had been the Principal
of the College of Military Engineering in Pune before coming to
iit. So I am sure he could discipline people if he wanted to, but
that was not his style.
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He rarely lost his temper. I only recall seeing him angry, once
or twice. Another characteristic about him was that he was
punctual. He didnt like people being late. I think it was the
army training. I remember one meeting; I think it was a meeting of the Senate Standing Committee scheduled for 2 oclock.
He was there on time. Some of the members came a few minutes late. He kept quiet until everyone had settled down. Then
he said,Gentlemen, this meeting was at 2 oclock. I want all of
you who came late to stand up and apologize for coming late.
Three or four faculty members stood up and said they were sorry. He said,Fine, now we will carry on. (r m: Really quite different from the situation that prevails today.) He was particular
about time. I think it is quite fair to expect people to come on
time for a formal meeting which has been announced. You must
come on time. It is something which carries over to me, something which I feel strongly about. As the Director, if I would
have a meeting, I would expect people to come on time. I dont
see why one cannot schedule things properly. If a meeting is not
your priority, then say so and dont come, but if you are going to
attend, come on time. I think people like Professor Bose who
had these habits, influenced younger persons for the better by
their actions.
Professor Bose was not a research-oriented person. He could see
the importance of research and he tried to tell faculty members
to do research. But you know, if you have not done research on
your own, you are not likely to make an impression. I dont think
a beginning was made in his period. I would say we started to get
into a research mode. His tenure was a period of setting up the
whole physical plant, the buildings, the laboratories, the hostels,
the staff quarters, etc. Getting the campus up and going was an
enormous job. It took a lot out of him and out of the people con-
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engineer had a broad feel for the humanities and the sciences.
One could see the difference between him and Professor Bose
immediately. To Professor Kelkar, an undergraduate engineering curriculum meant first the teaching of sciences. Physics,
Chemistry and Mathematics taught to engineering students because these subjects are important in their own right. Subjects
in the Humanities and Social Sciences taught for their own sake
as beautiful subjects and then, of course, engineering subjects
taught first as a science and then as an art. To him, this was education. In a sense, this is the guiding philosophy of many of the
worlds best universities. Professor Kelkar believed in this passionately. This vision had been implemented in Kanpur during
his tenure and he wanted this to happen in Bombay also during
his four years here. It is not as if we had no humanities subjects
or science subjects in the curriculum prior to that. We had them,
but the emphasis which he would have liked to see was missing.
In addition, Professor Kelkar wanted to introduce a semesterbased credit system and a continuous evaluation system as in
the usa. He wanted all these things to happen and he could see
immediately that this would also require a change in the structure of the academic bodies at the Institute. He sensed it within
a few months of coming here. Or maybe, he knew it even before coming.
rm: And what sort of system prevailed at iit Bombay at that
time?
sps: There was no continuous evaluation in a course; no tests,
quizzes or assignments. We only had a mid-term exam and an
exam at the end of the term. Also we did not have a credit system. The academic year was the basis for promotion. In order
to get things moving, Professor Kelkar straightaway appoint-
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efforts are wasted. When you recall these events in perspective, you begin to appreciate the persons art in getting things
done. It influences you and I suppose it influenced me too, the
way I got things done later. Not that there is something devious about it. It is the practical way to approach matters when
you have a large body of people to be satisfied.
To come back to the two Committees, the Hira Lal Committees
task was to work out the details of the credit system, the continuous assessment system, the grading pattern, etc, while the Mallik Committee was appointed to formulate the new curriculum.
Both were compact five-member committees. It so happened
that I was a member of both. Professor Kelkar called me and
told me,This is intentional. I want you on both committees because the two cant work in isolation. One must know what the
other is doing and you are the link between the two. I am appointing you for this purpose. Indeed, I was fortunate to be associated with both because the experience which I gained was
invaluable. The other members on the Hira Lal Committee were
Professors Subba Rao, Bannerji and Tyagi, while on the Mallik
Committee, the other members were Professors Mehta, Madhavan and Mahajan. I must tell you that we worked very hard. The
reason was simple. The Committees were formed in March 1972
and Professor Kelkar wanted a beginning to be made in July that
year. Prior to that, we needed to go again to the Senate and seek
its approval. So we wrote interim reports, went to the Senate,
secured its approval and from July that year, the semester-based
system was introduced.
rm: Thats very quick!
sps: Yes indeed. The reports generated a lot of comments. The
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sps: No, not always. Let me tell you about the Hira Lal Committee. Professor Hira Lal had done his Ph.D studies in England. When he started the work of his Committee, he said,You
know, I dont know what this credit system is. He was blunt,
but passionate about what he spoke. He had a style of his own,
smoked a pipe and all that. So he said,I dont know what this
credit system and relative grading is all about. But I have been
appointed as chairman and we have been given a responsibility.
Professor Kelkar knows what he wants. So lets talk it over and
see what can be done. By the end, when our final report was
ready, you couldnt have found a more passionate believer in the
new system then Professor Hira Lal. You should have seen the
way he presented the final report to the Senate. Professor Hira
Lals English was outstanding. His choice of words was impeccable and while writing, he was particular about the grammara
hyphen here, a comma there. If you wrote a draft, he would look
at it and smile.This is okay, but you know Sukhatme, I think it
needs some touching up. Lets sit down. And he would sit down
and correct it, word by word. Even today, I recommend that you
read the Rules Committee report if you have not done so before. It is written in good English and is a model of clarity. It
went through many drafts through all of us before it was finalized and as I said, to this day we are following it, albeit with
some variations.
But let me come back to the Bedford Committee. At that
time, we had at the Institute level, a Senate Standing Committee which considered all matters before they came to the Senate, and we had an Academic Committee for each department.
There was no distinction between matters related to the undergraduate and the postgraduate programmes, and between matters concerning the curriculum on the one hand and evaluation
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r m: You have spoken at length about Professor Kelkars academic insights and breadth of vision. Have you any recollections
about his administrative style of functioning?
sps: Not too many. I really wouldnt be able to comment too
much on his administrative style. What I can tell you is that
his way of doing things was always to speak politely. There was
never any unpleasantness in what he said. His way of speaking
was refined and even when he was annoyed, he had a way of putting things. You had to understand the language to know that
he was annoyed.
One thing I do recall is that at times he could be ambiguous. For
example, if you sent him a routine note requesting permission
to serve on some committee outside the Institute or to do some
work for an outside agency, it would come back with his initials
pkk written in big letters on it, nothing more. The first time this
happened to me, I was not sure what to make of it. I asked a colleague and he said,If it has come back with his initials, it means
he has approved your request.
rm: We will move on to Professor De now, your salient recollections of his tenure. He had a long tenure here.
sps: Oh yes. Professor De had a fairly long tenure. He joined
us as the Director in July 1974. But he wasnt new to the Institute. He was one of the first faculty members in the Mechanical
Engineering Department and joined iit Bombay in 1958. He
was here till 1969, excepting for a period of three years when
he was in the ussr studying for his Candidates degree. From
1966 onwards, he was the Head of the Department. Then he
was selected as the Director of the Central Mechanical Engi-
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and Resources Engineering was the area suggested for iit Bombay. As far as the other iits were concerned, Kharagpur started
the Centre in Cryogenic Engineering, Kanpur in Materials Science, Delhi in Energy Studies and Madras in Ocean Engineering. If my recollection is right, the Centre for Environmental
Science and Engineering was also started in Professor Des time.
It was a spin-off from the Civil Engineering Department and
Professor Narasimhan was the first convener. The Regional Sophisticated Instrumentation Centre (r sic) was also established.
This was an initiative of the Department of Science and Technology. Five centres were set up in different parts of the country
and iit Bombay was picked for the western region.
Moving to the other aspect which I alluded to earlier, the decade
from 1974 to 1984 was a difficult period from the point of view
of administering the Institute. You may recall that we had the
emergency during that period and although iit was not directly involved, indirectly the effects of the emergency were felt.
When I say that iit Bombay was not directly involved, I mean
that nobody here was arrested, nor were there any disturbances
on the campus. But certainly there were undercurrents which
disturbed the peace of the campus. No question about it. In
that sense it was a difficult period. It was also a difficult period because unionism came to iit Bombay. The non-academic
staff formed the Non-Academic Staff Association (n asa). Now
when a union is new, it has to make its presence felt and it does
so by being belligerent even on minor issues. Similarly the faculty of the Institute formed the Faculty Forum. It too got organised and wanted to show its might.
rm: Any examples?
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sps: There were some issues, but I dont think we should go into
the details. I recall, there was a case of a faculty member who was
on a temporary appointment and whose appointment was not
extended. The Faculty Forum made a big issue out of it. Looking
back, I dont think that one or two of the things which the Faculty Forum did at that time were necessary. They wouldnt act
like that now. (r m: I see.) But when you are new, you do these
things in the heat of the moment, partly because you have the
enthusiasm and partly because you have to make your presence
felt. You do that by making a bigger thing out of an issue than
you need to.
rm: Any examples of the undercurrents that existed during the
emergency?
sps: It is not something that you can lay your hands on, but certainly the Governments control over small things seemed to
have increased during the emergency. There were directives saying that on the campus you must see that this is done or that is
done. For instance, I know that some of these letters were concerned with the birth control programme. It is not easy for the
Director to handle such issues and they make life difficult.
rm: Was there a sense of threat to the Institutes autonomy?
sps: Yes and no. Yes, there was certainly a threat to the Institutes administrative autonomy, but no, there was no real threat
to the academic autonomy. In spite of all the difficulties he
faced, Professor De handled things well. He does not articulate
his thoughts well, often speaking in a somewhat disjointed fashion, but when it comes to executing what he wants to do, he is a
very firm person. Basically at heart, Professor De is an exceed-
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after the Committees work was over. The five of us used to meet
at our homes for dinner once every few months and this continued for at least ten years.
As far as new academic programmes are concerned, I think the
interdisciplinary programme in Industrial Management started during Professor Bedfords time. This was part of the on-going process initiated by Professor De. Otherwise, things moved
very smoothly.
rm: So now we come to your immediate predecessor, Professor Nag, known for his flamboyant manner. What are your recollections of him? You were the Deputy Director when he was
the Director.
sps: I was appointed as the Deputy Director in December 1983
when Professor De was the Director. Professor De retired in 1984
and I continued on as Deputy Director. So I was the dd both
with him and Professor Nag.
rm: For iit Bombay, after a number of years we had some one
coming in so to speak from outside.
sps: Yes, from outside.
rm: And how was that received?
sps: You know at iit Bombay, the faculty are really very nice
people. Professor Nag had no problem because he was an outsider. In fact, he was not even from the iit system; he was from Jadavpur. He brought to the job some unique experience. He had
served in Delhi as Secretary to the Department of Electronics.
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outdated by the time they came to us. As a result, most computational work of any significance had to be done by going to
tifr. There was no other way till 1980 because there was nothing worthwhile we could do with the computers here. The Institute got its first good mainframe computer in Professor Nags
time. It was an excellent addition, really useful to us.
rm: So it was his initiative?
sps: Yes, he went out of his way and fought to get the extra few
crores needed to buy the new mainframe machine. We wouldnt
have got the money easily. The request had been made. But requesting the Ministry for something and getting the money are
two different things. It is to Professor Nags credit that he got
the money for the mainframe sanctioned.
There were some other things too. For instance, the M.Sc programme in Biotechnology started in his time. The initiative
came from the Department of Biotechnology of the Government of India. They wanted to know if we would start the M.Sc
programme and the Institute quickly said yes. In fact, it has
been one of our very successful academic programmes. Our
M.Phil programme in Planning and Development run by the
h&ss Department also started in his period. That was a new
concept. No iit had an M.Phil programme then and we had to
go to the iit Council to get it approved. It has proved to be a
good activity for the Department and for the Institute.
Then I must mention the School of Management. It was during
Professor Nags time that the Institute started to think in terms
of having a School of Management. The basis for it was laid by
appointing a Committee, chaired by Professor Madhavan, which
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put down the broad principles for setting up the school. Why
have a School of Management within an iit ? In what way would
such a school be different from an iim ? These were some of the
issues addressed by the Committee. The report of the Committee was considered by the Senate and the Board. There was considerable discussion and in the end the report was approved.
However, the School could not be started in Professor Nags
time. I think the primary reason was lack of funds. The Ministry
of Education was not prepared to fund the new activity fully and
the Institute had to look to outside sources. Two organizations,
icici and Hindustan Lever, agreed to give a crore each, but that
was not enough and the matter had to be kept pending.
During Professor Nags tenure, sponsored research picked up a
lot and so did consultancy work. He was a great believer in institute-industry interaction and having been a consultant to industry for many years, he encouraged faculty members to do
consultancy projects with industry.
But having said all these positive things, I must confess that the
period from 1984 to 1994 was a difficult one. This was the big issue. We were starved of funds. This was the real issue. Indeed,
none of the iits received adequate funding to meet their needs
and aspirations.
r m: Was this especially towards the end of Professor Nags
tenure?
sps: Yes, the last five years were particularly difficult. It was
very obvious that we were not getting enough money to run
the Institute. What happens then is that things that can be deferred are postponed to the next year or even indefinitely. For
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ed to a cause, the cause of education. He had a fine academic career, did his Bachelors degree from the College of Engineering
in Anantapur and was selected as an engineer in the Department
of Atomic Energy. He worked there for a few years and was doing
well. They did not want him to leave when he was selected by iit
Bombay. But he joined here and I dont think he had any regrets,
because he enjoyed teaching and interacting with students. He
had a subtle sense of humour and was very soft spoken. He was
in Power Engineering, excellent at his subject and known for his
contributions. He did some good consultancy work for industry as well.
r m: While we are on Professor Hariharan, there is a related
question. I might have asked it later on, but I will ask it now. In
his interview for the History Book, Professor Hariharan had recounted how he felt strongly that iit Bombay should have detached itself from the undergraduate programme and become
predominantly a postgraduate teaching and research institute.
Was this vision of his strongly spelt out? Did you for example
concur with this view?
sps: Well, many of us have felt that way. You may recall when I
was the Director, I said at many faculty meetings that this Institute was set up to match the worlds best universities at the
undergraduate and postgraduate levels. While we have to some
extent achieved the first goal of having a strong ug programme,
we are still a long way from achieving the second. So I share Professor Hariharans view that we need to put more emphasis on
the pg programme. But you know our success with the ug programme has made it very difficult for us to get out of it. You cant
go around saying that from tomorrow we want to close down the
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was the case with many other colleagues, our association began
in the Staff Hostel where we all stayed in the sixties. I stayed for
only one year, but that one year was important because you know
we were all bachelors at that time, we used to go out in the evenings, eat together in the mess and play tennis together. All this
was the basis for enduring friendships.
Professor Narayanamurthy was Dean, r & d and then Dean, Resources Mobilization, during my tenure as Director. Prior to that,
he had served as the Head of the Chemical Engineering Department. He is a fine teacher known for the clarity of his concepts
and his ability to present things well. He is a very fine administrator as well. We have been good friends for years and I came in
close contact with him because he served as a Dean in one capacity or other throughout my five-year term.
The area of Resources Mobilization was new to us and yet it was
necessary for the Institute to venture into it. There were no procedures in place. So the obvious questions which arose were: How
do you go about it? Whom do you talk to? What kind of feelers
do you send out to prospective donors? And so on. I think Professor Narayanamurthy handled the job well. He laid down the
basis for mobilizing resources from private sources and streamlined the procedures. He was very good at doing such things and
as a result, small irritants which bother people dealing with you
from outside were removed. What was equally important was
that he was willing to take initiatives on his own.
Let me give you an example. For the School of Information
Technology, we received a good donation from our alumnus,
Kanwal Rekhi. Thats another story which I will take up separately. Now Nandan Nilekani was also interested in funding the
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will explain everything to the Board later in the form of an agenda item for information. Thats all. That shows you the kind of
person Professor Menon is. He had full faith in us. So that part
was taken care of.
Now it was back to Professor Narayanamurthy. If I remember
correctly, he was sitting in front of me. I said,Now, its your job.
He was on the phone to Nandan immediately to say that we were
ready. Nandan told us whom we should contact, so that a proper agreement could be drawn up and the necessary papers exchanged. This took a few days. The shares were then transferred
and immediately sold. My recollection is that it was a good time
to sell and the money was with the Institute well before the financial year ended. The whole transaction required a fair amount of
work on Professor Narayanamurthys part. Today, I make it sound
easy by saying in a few sentences that it was done. It required going back and forth between the parties and also some negotiation. But everything was done and done to perfection. That is
because we had a Dean who took the responsibility on himself. If
you talk to Professor Narayanamurthy, he will probably give you
more details of what was involved. I recall this story to illustrate
the dynamism and commitment which he brought to his job.
Amongst other things, he also streamlined the process of letting
donors know what was happening with the money they had given. This was something the Institute had not done well in the
past. When you have alumni or organizations giving you money, they like to know what you are doing with it every year. This
is particularly true if the amounts involved are large. You cant
just say, Yes, the money is with us. We are looking after it. Dont
worry. Thats not the way. You have to keep a separate account
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and write annually to the people concerned. Professor Narayanamurthy was very good in these matters and I think he did an outstanding job.
rm: So in this way, resources really picked up in his time.
sps: Yes, they did. Resource generation really picked up during
my tenure and the credit should go to the Dean. He was the one
at the ground level, mooting new ideas and executing them. Professor Narayanamurthy was truly a wonderful colleague.
Professor Madhavan was another fine colleague. He served the
Institute in many ways. He was the Head of the Chemical Engineering Department, Dean of r & d, and worked on many committees. You may recall my mentioning that we were together
on the Curriculum Committee during Professor Kelkars time.
Professor Madhavan was also an outstanding teacher. He was
known for the clarity of his thinking and his willingness to spend
hours with students. He was the recipient of the best teacher
award. You might also be interested in knowing that he played
basketball well and there was a time when the staff-student basketball match was not all that one sided.
rm: I think in some ways he was the architect of the vision for
the School of Management.
sps: Thats right. He was the Convener of the Committee which
prepared the report for the Senate. The report laid down the
basis behind establishing a School of Management. It felt that
since the som would be located in an iit, it should have some
distinctive characteristics and should focus on areas like Tech-
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the ussr, but had to return in 1962 without his advanced degree
because of the war with China. Nevertheless, he never gave up on
his Ph.D. He took up a topic in heat transfer in the seventies and
completed the work when he was about forty five years old!
Professor Jagadish and I were very close because we were in the
same laboratory and taught courses which overlapped. He was
a unique person because he was one of the few people I have
known who straddled the two culturesscience on one side and
arts on the other. (r m: I have heard a lot about him.) The technical subjects of interest to him were gas turbines, jet propulsion
and wind energy. Apart from his competence in them, he was a
connoisseur of music and was proficient in playing the sitar. He
loved nature and wild life and visited many of our national parks.
He was liked by all because of his gentle nature and helpful attitude, and it was a great shock when he passed away in 1988 at
the young age of fifty two.
By now you may have come to the conclusion that I am only going to speak about the past. So let me dispel that impression by
describing one person who is still very much in the Institute and
with whom I have been associated for more than thirty years.
I am referring to Professor Uday Gaitonde in my department.
ung, as he is known, joined iit Bombay as a student in 1968.
I came in contact with him in his final year when I supervised
his B.Tech. project. He was our silver medalist in 1973 and I was
delighted when he joined the Ph.D programme as a research
scholar under my supervision. For his Ph.D, he worked on the
problem of measuring the thermal conductivity of liquids and in
particular, liquid mixtures. The idea was to build a set-up which
could measure the k-value to a reasonable accuracy and then see
if we could come up with correlations for predicting k-values of
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Amongst the technical staff, there were many who served the Institute well. Two names which come instantly to mind are those
of Mr. E.T. Randelia and Mr. Kasbekar. I knew both of them
well and in my opinion, they were exceptional people. Mr. Randelia was in the Internal Combustion Engines Laboratory of
the Mechanical Engineering Department. He joined iit Bombay almost at the beginning and was responsible for much of
the erection work in the laboratory in the early years. He was
best known for his ability to explain the working of I.C. engines
and he would do so rigorously to batch after batch during the
practical sessions. His explanations were very lucid and all the
students liked him and still remember him. Mr. Kasbekar was
initially in our Nuclear Engineering Laboratory and later moved
to the Electrical Engineering Department. He was an M.Sc in
Physics and did his M.Tech in Electronics at the Institute as a
staff member. He too was very good and sincere in his work. I
remember him too because of his love for walking. He was very
regular about taking his evening walk and we must have crossed
each other hundreds of times.
I think I could go on and on describing the work and achievements of faculty members and members of the staff who have
served the Institute well. I have given you a fair glimpse though
and this is probably a good place to stop.
rm: Some of them are the unsung heroes of iit Bombay over
the years. It is nice that you have shared your memories of them.
Next time when we meet, we will move on to your experiences
as Director.
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can move things forward for the better in the right direction. I
also gave an idea of some of the things we wanted to do. For instance, I said we would need to look at the undergraduate curriculum and its reorganization. This had not been done for nearly
ten years. In addition, we probably needed to introduce some
new academic programmes. We needed to increase our commitment to sponsored research. Faculty members had to make this
more of a postgraduate institute with more research and more
consultancies. There could be no two ways about it. I said that
in spite of the fact that we have teaching to do, there is time to
do research. I am not convinced if somebody tells me that he has
too much teaching. To be quite honest, there is no such thing at
the Institute. Then I made an important point. I said we had to
increase our enrolment; it had been stationary for ten years. So
I did make a number of points and I felt that in an overall sense,
my comments were well received.
Then I spoke about myself personally. I said I would continue
to do teaching even as the Director, though to a lesser extent
than before. I also gave the faculty members an idea of the some
of the formal duties of the Director. How many committees he
chairs and how many meetings he has to attend. I went on to say
that when you add it all up, it comes to a very sizeable number.
You get to see me quite often at formal functions also, I said,
like the convocation ceremony, the foundation day function,
etc. Therefore I said, I shall be grateful if you dont ask me to
inaugurate workshops, conferences and the like. Please request
other officers in the Institute to do the honours. I request you
to exempt me. I also told them that on certain mornings in the
week, I would not be in the Main Building. I would be in my Department looking after my academic duties. If you read my letterhead carefully, I said,You will see that it says Director and
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ber 17th. He called me as soon as it came and said, I have received this letter and I am issuing your letter of appointment
immediately. You can take over tomorrow. I said,No, I would
not like to take over tomorrow. He asked me why and I told
him, This is an academic post and just now we are in between
semesters. It would be appropriate for me to join on the first
working day of the next semester, which is the second of January. It is just fifteen days away and I would prefer to join on that
day. I told him that the Indian Institute of Science has a tradition that a new Director joins on the first of July because that is
the beginning of the academic year. Dr. Chidambaram is from
iisc. He said,I appreciate what you are saying and I like your
idea, but these are difficult times. You know some complication
may arise; somebody might bring a stay order. Such things can
happen. I said, I have nothing to fear. I was selected on merit
and there was no wrong-doing. So if there is some problem, Ill
face it. Dr. Chidambaram gave his approval and it was agreed
that I would join on January 2, 1995.
Now it so happened that on January 2, I had my first lecture
at 9.30. I was teaching the first half of the ug course on Heat
Transfer that semester. So I delivered my lecture from 9.30 to
10.30, then walked to the Main Building and signed my joining
report in the Board Room. The idea behind all this was to convey that it is good to follow certain traditions.
In any case, I had fifteen days between the time I was formally
appointed and I joined, and I used that time well. I met a number of people in the Institute to seek their views on the kinds of
things that needed to be done. I had a set of pages and at the top
of each page, I put headings like academic programmes, administrative issues, infrastructure and so on. After each discussion,
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I jotted down the issues, some major and some minor, and prepared some kind of an agenda for action. That set of papers is
here with me just now, a little faded after all these years.
rm: Would you be so kind as to share with us some of the notings made on those papers?
sps: That will come out as we go along. I must mention that this
bunch of papers was on my desk for five years throughout the
time I was Director. From time to time, I used to refer to the
notings made to remind myself about what issues had been tackled and what still remained to be done. In some cases, my thinking changed and then a particular issue was dropped or modified,
while in some instances, new issues were added. Looking back, I
can say that many of the things I had planned for were done in
my five years.
I will digress again for a moment to emphasize the need for an
action plan when you begin your term as the head of an institute. If you dont have one, you will just run the institute on a
day-to-day basis and that is not good enough in the long run. Of
course, you may not succeed in executing everything you would
have liked. Take for example, an issue concerned with the academic programmes. You may have a view point on what needs
to be done, but you have to go through committees and through
the Senate to obtain approval. Sometimes they may not agree
with your view point. After all, there are no short cuts in a democratic set-up!
rm: That brings me to the question I wish to bring up. During
your time as Director, what were the key initiatives taken which resulted in the achievement of some of the items on your agenda?
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move at first sight. But it was consciously done, presented carefully to the iit Council with facts and figures, and finally adopted with no real discontentment. In 1995, the tuition fee was
only rs 1000 per year, a miniscule amount when you consider
that we were spending nearly rs 100,000 per student per year.
The idea behind raising the tuition fees was not to make a profit, but to charge the student a reasonable fraction of the expenditure incurred on him. The plan was to raise the tuition so that
the student would pay about 15 to 20 per cent of the cost of education. This would essentially affect ug students, since pg students get a scholarship. We felt that most parents could afford
to pay an amount around rs 15,000 or 20,000 and that a rise in
tuition fees would make students aware that they were spending something.
r m: And any way, loans or scholarships would be available to
those who needed them?
sps: Of course, anyone who had got in on merit and needed monetary help would have access to a loan or scholarship.
There was a clear provision for that situation. Now a tuition increase has to be common to all iits. One iit cannot act on its
own. So the process is quite long and drawn out. First it has to be
agreed to by all the iit Directors after consultations in the respective Institutes and then it has to be formally approved by the
iit Council. A fair amount of coordination is required.
rm: And persuasion?
sps: And some persuasion too! The instantaneous reaction of
most persons to a proposal to increase fees is always No, no!
Students will protest; so and so will protest. But if you present
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the facts which I have just mentioned and tell that most universities the world over derive at least 15 to 20 per cent of their educational expenses from tuition fees, then people realize that
there is nothing unusual about what is being suggested.
rm: It seems that iit Bombay took the initiative in this matter.
sps: I was one of the Directors who felt strongly about the matter. First the subject was discussed at all the iits and then jointly
by the Directors. A proposal was then sent to the Ministry to be
put up to the Council. It so happened that I presented the proposal on behalf of the iits at the Council meeting. I must tell
you that we had done some preparatory work before the meeting. That is always useful. By the time I finished making my brief
presentation to the Council, the members were so convinced
that one or two suggested that we should increase the fees even
more than what had been proposed. I said, No. The idea is not
to make money but to show that technical education is costly;
the idea is to charge a reasonable amount consistent with practices elsewhere and at the same time, to make provisions for
those who cannot afford to pay the increased amount. And so
the proposal to increase the tuition fees was adopted. The increase was introduced in a phased manner. If my memory serves
me right, the fees were raised to rs 12,000 in 1997, to rs 17,000
in 1998 and to rs 22,000 in 1999. I must also mention another
feature of the hike. It was made applicable only to new students
entering the Institutes from July 1997 onwards.
r m: Perhaps, we could move on now to the research programmes. In what ways did research activity at the Institute
change during your tenure and what were the initiatives taken
in that respect?
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interaction with staff from there coming here and getting their
degrees as well.
Sponsored research work certainly got a big boost during my tenure. The activity grew both in terms of the number of projects
being handled, as well as the size of some of the projects. That
growth has continued ever since and it has been good for the Institute. Consultancy activities also picked up in a big way, particularly international consultancy projects. Such projects were
unheard of earlier. A number of international agencies and organizations started coming here to get consultancy work done.
Now, I should like to move on and speak about some other activities. As the Director, I felt that there are certain times of
the year when the Institute needs to project itself to the outside world. I picked four days for this purpose. These were the
Foundation Day, the day of the Convocation, Teachers Day
and Alumni Day. I picked those four days as days on which we
would do something special and interact with the people concerned. Let me begin with March 10th, the Foundation Day,
the day on which Pandit Jawaharlal Nehru laid the foundation
stone of the Institute in 1959. When I joined in 1965, we used
to have an open house on Foundation Day. We would invite the
general public and particularly school children from Mumbai to
come over. They would be taken around and shown the Institute. Then there were a few years when Foundation Day was not
celebrated at all. Subsequently, for a few years, we used to invite some one to give a lecture on that day and it was called the
Foundation Day lecture. In fact, one year I delivered the Foundation Day lecture. That was in 1988. I had just completed my
study on the brain drain of iit graduates. (r m: A burning issue
in those days!) It was a topic of interest to many and mine was
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sps: Thats right. I remember you were on the dress sub-committee headed by Professor Nadkarni. He got the dresses designed outside. We had two or three alternatives which we
looked at and then selected one.
r m: I think students also responded very positively to the
change made.
sps: Yes, they were happy and proud. In an overall sense, it is a
much better function in terms of the aesthetics, the dcor and
the precision with which it is carried out. By the way, it is interesting to note that it has been copied by other universities. The
third step which I took was to introduce a function on Teachers
Day, September 5th. Prior to that, I had to go to the Senate to
say that we needed to recognize our good teachers and give them
suitable awards. There was quite a discussion in the Senate on
the subject of whether we should recognize excellence in teaching or not. There were some members who felt that if you start
giving awards for good teaching, some faculty members would
start handing out good grades to all students regardless of performance. However, most Senate members disagreed. They felt
strongly that good, dedicated teaching needs to be rewarded and
that good teachers do not necessarily give good grades.
rm: I dont think ones philosophy can change overnight just
for an award.
sps: Quite right, good teachers remain good teachers regardless of whether we institute awards or not. The report prepared
for the purpose was formally adopted by the Senate. The Institute had planned on giving a certificate of appreciation and a
small amount of money, but then our alumni in America who had
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formed the iit Bombay Heritage Fund came along and raised
the amount to rs 10,000. I believe now the amount has been
further increased, which is fine. It is important to note that the
awardees are picked through a formal procedure laid down by
the Senate in which student input plays a key role. The procedure itself has undergone some modifications from time to time.
That is bound to happen and that is the way it should be. The
bottom line is that the Institute is now recognizing ten faculty
members for their teaching skills every year and quite appropriately, the recognition is given on Teachers Day.
Finally Alumni DayWe had begun to celebrate this day with
our alumni in December every year during Professor Nags time.
During my tenure, we formalized the programme further. I recall that we decided to have the function on the last Sunday of
the year. The day begins with alumni and their families coming to the Institute through the morning, gathering on the Lecture Theatre lawns and in the Main Building for a get-together.
This is followed by lunch and a programme in the afternoon in
the lt. The Director starts the programme by describing some
of the things that have happened during the year and then the
alumni take over. The batch celebrating its Silver Jubilee has a
special role to play and the planning is largely left to them. There
is some light hearted talk and some serious discussion as well.
After that in the evening, the alumni of the Silver Jubilee batch
have their own dinner and celebration. Overall it is a good occasion for alumni to link up with the faculty and to get a glimpse of
how things are changing in the Institute. It is also a good occasion for alumni to link up amongst themselves. Finally, I should
mention that we also introduced another award in 1997 called
the Distinguished Service Award. This is given on Alumni Day to
a select set of alumni who in the Institutes view have rendered
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were going to earn during the year from tuition fees, licence fees
for campus housing, other sources of revenue, etc. Let us say
that this added up to an amount Z. This amount would be subtracted and the Ministry would agree to release (X+Y- Z). So at
the end of the year, you were left with nothing. You had spent
whatever you had received. Next year, it was a clean slate. New
values would be agreed to for X and Y and a new value of Z would
be subtracted. That is the way we were running the Institute
from the beginning till 199394. In fact that is the way all autonomous organizations under the government run.
One of the obvious disadvantages of the erstwhile funding
scheme was that under it there was no incentive to increase the
value of Z. Why increase the tuition fees? Why should one try to
earn money for the Institute or look for donations if eventually
the amount earned was going to be deducted from(X+Y)? That
is why fees were never increased in the past. However, the moment you switch over to an incentive-based scheme, one looks
for ways and means to earn a little more. The Ministry recognized this fact and in 1992, discussions were held with the Directors of the iits and iims. A consequence of these discussions
was the introduction of what was called The Block Grant Scheme
from 199394. Under this scheme of funding, the Ministry said
that in 199394, it would give the Institute a block grant fixed
on the basis of the previous years expenditure on the main items
like salaries, pensions, scholarships, electricity and water, etc.
They would increase this by 6 per cent to account for inflation
and would also add expenses which might occur due to some
unusual situations. The Ministry also said that if the Institute
wanted to start any new activities over and above what was possible through the block grant, it would have to tap other sources.
It could for instance make a proposal to increase the fees joint-
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ly with the other iits and bring it for the consideration of the
iit Council. It could also approach alumni for help. More importantly, if an amount was saved from the block grant plus the
earnings from other sources and that saving put into an endowment fund, the Ministry would match that saving with an equal
amount. This was the incentive part of the scheme. It was a kind
of challenge to the iits and the iims. It was also something new
on the Indian scene. Hence, there was fair amount of discussion
with the Ministry. The Directors were quite confident that the
Institutes could face the challenge of generating funds from other sources and in fact, they welcomed the introduction of the
block grant scheme. So when I took over in 1995, the scheme
was on. It had just started.
I was convinced that apart from increasing our earning from a
number of sources within the Institute, we needed the support
of our alumni and perhaps through them other outside sources. In 1995, we knew that many of our alumni who had passed in
the sixties and seventies had been very successful in India and
abroad. Some of them over the years had even indicated their
willingness to help the Institute. But one first needs to have an
infrastructure or a framework in place, particularly when one is
thinking of large donations. You need to have a list of projects,
small and big, which require funding, you need to go out and tell
potential donors about these projects, and you need to set up
processes within the Institute to receive the money and account
for it. So one of the first things I did in 1995 was to go our Board
with a proposal to create the position of a Dean for Resources
Development (r d). Later on the name has been changed to Resources Mobilization. Be that as it may, the important thing for
the Institute was that we had two outstanding persons as the
first two Deans for Resources Development. Professor Phatak
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was the first Dean for a three year period and he was followed
by Professor Narayanamurthy. Both of them did a wonderful job
in making our needs known and in meeting potential donors.
I am making this remark because I feel that what Phatak and
Narayanamurthy did was unusual for the Indian scene. There is
simply no tradition in the Indian university system of going out
and seeking funds in a systematic fashion from private sources.
At about the same time in 1995, some of our alumni in the usa
were keen to set up an organization which could work for the
welfare of the Institute and act as a receiving house for channeling donations made there. iit Kanpur had set up such an organization and the advantages of doing so were well known. If
set up as a non-profit organization, certain tax benefits accrue to
donors within the usa. There was no reason not to set up such
an organization, but it needed dedicated office bearers to run it.
iit Bombay was fortunate to have alumni who were willing to
spend their time for this purpose. To name a few, we had Anil
Kshirsagar, Raj Mashruwala, Sandeep Pandya, Ram Kelkar, Paritosh Choksi, Mahesh Krishnamurthy and Deepak Sabnis. They
really put in a lot of effort in setting up the iit Bombay Heritage
Fund. They needed quite a few documents and papers from our
side and we supplied those. Of course, it helped that I knew all
of them personally. There was an air of excitement and enthusiasm about the whole venture. I still remember Anil calling me
up in 1996 and telling me that the Heritage Fund had been formally registered and some time later, I recall his calling me again
to say that it had obtained the tax free status from the Internal
Revenue Service. That was an important step and it wouldnt
have happened without the dedication of many of our alumni.
No praise can be too high for what they did then and continue
to do for the Institute.
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To come back to the funding pattern and the effect the above
measures had on the Institute, let me give you the figures for the
financial year 199899. This was the last full year for which I was
the Director. In that year, the total inflow of funds to the Institute was rs 108 crores. Out of this, rs 68 crores was the grant
from the Ministry, sponsored projects brought rs 16 crores and
consultancy rs 5 crores, income from all other sources including tuition fees yielded rs 12 crores, and donations came to rs 8
crores. So you get an idea of how things had changed. The grant
from the Ministry remained our primary source, but income
from other sources and from donations now added up to a sizeable amount of rs 20 crores. Five years earlier, this component
was just a crore or two.
rm: Together they were already nearly 20 per cent!
sps: That is right. They added up to about 20 per cent of the
total inflow. Such inflows make a difference. For instance, our
School of it could be established only because of the generous
donations which we received.
r m: Were the donations of rs 8 crores received in 199899
matched by the Ministry?
sps: No, no. These donations were not supposed to be matched.
The agreement with the Ministry was that if we saved something
from the inflow for a year and put that saving in the Endowment
Fund, then the Ministry would match the amount put in.
rm: So, did that happen? Did iit Bombay then start to have an
Endowment Fund?
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look up to them as much as they look up to faculty. For example, when a well-known alumnus visits the Institute and gives a
lecture in the Lecture Theatre, he or she provides inspiration to
the students. In their minds, the students think, I could be like
that one day. We want our alumni to come here, to talk to us, to
feel that this is their Institute and to help in any way that they
can. That is the way it should be. And I dare say our alumni have
done us proud in that respect. I have no doubt they will continue to do so in the future.
I think, I have given you a fair idea of some of the things we did
during my tenure. I have described the new initiatives we undertook in our academic programmes and I have spoken about
the growth of our sponsored research and consultancy work. I
have told you about the new funding scheme adopted, about the
linkages built up with alumni and about some of the donations
which have come from them. I think it would be fair to say that
when I left in January 2000 at the end of my five-year term, the
changes that had taken place had left the Institute in a much
better shape and that the future looked a whole lot brighter.
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So I come back to repeating what I said earlier. If I achieved anything during my five years, it was because I had an excellent team,
a team that worked. That can happen if you know each other
well. At times it may happen that you disagree with what one of
them has done, but you dont say Why did you do that? You
take it in your stride. Then your colleagues work with confidence
and in an overall sense, things move in the proper direction. I
thought I would mention this aspect because it is important for
the growth of the Institute that we work as teams and that we
draw on the strength of the faculty.
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DI R E C T OR S OF T H E O T H E R IITs
rm: I would like to move on now to your experiences as a Director when it came to dealing with the Directors of the other iits.
I believe this interaction is of central importance. Could you expand on that aspect?
sps: Let me first mention the persons who were the directors
of the other iits. Professor Raju was the Director of iit Delhi. He and I were selected at the same time, so his term more
or less coincided with mine. At iit Kanpur, Professor Malhotra
was the Director and he was succeeded by Professor Padmanabhan. They were previously from Delhi and Madras and I knew
them from earlier times. It was the same story at iit Kharagpur.
We had Professor Chopra as the Director and he was followed
by Professor Amitabh Ghosh. I knew Professor Chopra from his
iit Delhi days because he and I both worked in the area of Solar
Energy and I knew Professor Ghosh even better because he was
a Professor in the Mechanical Engineering Department at iit
Kanpur. At iit Madras, Professor Swamy was the Director and
he was followed by Professor Natarajan, whom I knew rather
well because he was from the Mechanical Engineering Department and worked in the area of Thermal Sciences. And finally at
iit Guwahati, we had Professor Buragohain who was an alumnus of iit Bombay. He had obtained all his degrees in Civil Engineering from here and I had known him almost from the time
I joined the Institute. These links do help.
The iit Directors meet quite frequently, perhaps five or six
times in a year at one of the iits. The reason for this is that
there are many issues of common interest. There is a Directors
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Secretariat at iit Delhi and that Secretariat prepares the agenda for the Directors meetings and handles the paper work. So if
you want an item to be taken up, you send it there. It is collated
along with the other items and that forms the formal agenda for
the next meeting. Of course, many things are also discussed informally at the Directors meetings.
rm: It is a separate office, is it? The Secretariat?
sps: Yes, it is a separate office and it is located in Delhi because
the Ministry is there. Many of the decisions have to be ultimately conveyed to the Ministry. Interestingly enough, the body comprising the iit Directors is not mentioned in the Statutes or in
the iit Act. It has simply evolved over time as a necessity. It
plays an important link role because if you want to implement
anything which is common to all the iits, you need to discuss
it with the Directors. They in turn, take it back to their respective organizations for discussion. For example, I mentioned the
issue of raising the tuition fees at the iits. This was an issue of
common concern and was discussed in all the iits. However, the
finer elements of that issue were finalized in the Directors meeting and the draft of the agenda item to be considered by the iit
Council was prepared in the Directors Secretariat.
There are many other examples. For instance, issues concerning
the Joint Entrance Examination (j ee) come up for consideration
regularly. There is a separate board for the purpose consisting
of the jee Chairmen from each iit and the Directors. However, sometimes the Directors find it necessary to discuss the
issues on their own as well. The same is true for the Graduate Aptitude Test in Engineering (g ate). Some other issues are
the funding pattern, the current years budget, new activities
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overall peace and harmony, the facts become known at the other iits and they are under pressure to do some thing. So these
are the types of issues which get discussed amongst the iit Directors. It is very important to ensure that we do not do some
thing on our own which will have repercussions in the other Institutes. The more you do things on your own for issues which
matter across iits, the more problems you create for the other iits and for yourself in the long run. I think during my tenure, we had a set of Directors who at least agreed on the nature
of the problem. Professor Chopra was the senior most amongst
us and he was a blunt person. Whenever there was some issue
of a promotion for a group of staff or a salary scale or an interpretation of a rule, he used to say, Let us thrash this out. This is
what iit Delhi has done so far, this is what Kharagpur has done,
and so on. What are we agreed on now. I am under pressure to
take this kind of decision at Kharagpur. You will also be under
pressure tomorrow. So let us agree on a common approach; an
approach which is just towards our employees and yet not unduly lenient. In any case let us not do any thing quietly at our iit
thinking that it will buy us peace. That is an illusion. We never
buy peace that way. I thought his arguments made a lot of sense
and in many instances, particularly involving non-academic staff,
I admired his wisdom. Not that he always got his way on every issue at the Directors meetings. (r m: I see.) After careful discussion, we would arrive at a decision and we would agree to stick to
that decision. Professor Raju was another person who believed
in this procedure totally and I think by and large, we found that
it helped us a lot.
This does not mean that all our problems with the non-academic staff got resolved. That is just not possible. You would have
seen that from time to time the staff would indulge in agitations
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CH A I R M E N OF T H E B OA R D OF G OV E R N OR S
rm: Perhaps we could now move on. Another group of functionaries with whom the Director has to work with are the Chairmen of the Board of Governors. They can be the guiding lights
for the course that an Institute takes. In your memory were there
any specific Chairmen of our Board and were there any specific visions that they had which you felt were important in guiding the Institute?
sps: It will be better if I restrict myself to the two persons who
were Chairmen during my tenure because I came to know them
well. The first was Dr. Chidambaram who was the Director of
ba rc and then the Chairman of the Atomic Energy Commission. I was acquainted with him even before I became the Director because I had met him a few times in barc and elsewhere.
He made his approach clear to me straight away at the beginning. You have a full-time job and I have a full-time job, he
said. As Chairman of the Board, I claim no special knowledge
of the iits, excepting that I know the system, and I know you
and many others at the Institute. So I am going to defer to you
on all routine matters in which proper administrative procedures have been followed. Ill never question your decisions. If
you say this paper is to be signed by the Chairman, I will sign it.
I am not going to even read through those papers. There is no
question of that. The issues where the Board or I come in are
the larger issues, policy matters, issues which have long range
implications. Dr. Chidambaram kept to those guidelines right
through and that was very helpful. I remember at the first or second meeting of the bog after I became the Director, there was
some routine item put up for the Boards approval. Dr. Chidam-
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baram said, Why does this item come to the Board at all. All we
do is to look at it and say okay. This has been the practice all
these years, I said I cannot change it overnight. His response
was No, this has to change. He made it clear that routine items
like approval for people going abroad for conferences and so on
should not have to wait for a Board meeting. Such papers should
be approved by the Director with the authority of the Board. At
every Board meeting, there should be an agenda item informing
the Board of all such decisions taken by the Director. There may
also be some important but routine items like reports of selection committees which by their nature require the approval of
the Board. In that case, he made it clear that he would approve
them as the Chairman and that they should be brought to the
formal attention of the Board later.
rm: This is very enlightening.
sps: This practice had been adopted to some extent earlier. But
now suddenly, a whole lot of papers did not have to wait for a
Board meeting and the Boards approval. The Chairman asked
us to prepare an item for the next meeting listing all such routine items and requesting the Board to delegate the authority to
the Chairman or the Director. This was done and duly adopted.
So this was Dr. Chidambarams practical way of handling matters. Looking back, I would say his motto was Lets get on with
the business. The system has to function.
rm: It has to be based on trust.
sps: Yes, I agree. He was also keen to reduce paper work. You
know, Rohit, paper work will be our bane. Since we are on that
subject, let me give you another example. It turns out that the
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tle time to discuss any thing in depth. They are constantly involved with day-to-day crises. If you have no problems involving
violence or strikes, no problems with the unions, no court cases,
etc and if your educational calendar is moving on schedule (admissions, examinations, results all on time), then they are happy. In India, these are their immediate concerns today. The long
range issues are kept on the back burner for as long as possible.
And then, as I have mentioned earlier, the officials keep changing. Next to the Secretary, the person whom we have to contact
quite a lot is the Financial Adviser. During my tenure, there were
four Financial Advisers in the Ministry, one after another, all for
relatively short periods.
The only official who was in mhrd right through my tenure, was
Dr. Awale. He was the Joint Educational Adviser dealing directly
with the iits. He was also the Secretary of the iit Council. Dr.
Awale was one person who was accessible and in most cases, he
knew the background of the problem you were discussing. One
could also speak to him on the phone at any time and this was
very helpful. In general, he was supportive of the iit system, not
iit Bombay alone but the system in general. It was good to have
some one like him there, somebody who knew the system and
wanted to help it to the extent that he could.
rm: Well, we have had a treasure chest of recollections from you
on your five very eventful years as the Director.
sps: Yes, five reasonably eventful years. I may have meandered
occasionally during our conversation, but I believe I have conveyed the essence of what was achieved. Of course, I must remind you, Rohit, that while initiating all these new activities,
one has to keep the Institute running smoothly on a day-to-day
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REFLECTIONS
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got these books issued and made my first set of lecture notes
from these books. Since I taught the course for many years, I
modified my notes every year and gradually they acquired coherence and continuity. My teaching style also evolved through
the years. At first, I used only the black board and chalk and
today also for a course which involves a fair amount of analysis, I would use essentially the same technique. I feel that this
is the most effective way of communicating with a class up to
a strength of about 60 students. (r m: Yes.) I would prefer the
class strength to be around 30 or 40, but even up to 60, a big
black board with chalks of different colours is really what you
need. You have to use the board well, start at one end at the top
and then move down and across from one panel to the next.
The need to take recourse to other techniques arises when you
have to show a complicated sketch or picture or you have to illustrate a process that shows changes occurring with time. In
that case, it is best to use images or movie clips projected from a
computer or another device. It is unwise to use power point presentations completely for delivering lectures in a course. This is
particularly true when the course involves analysis and requires
derivations. You have to remember that it is not just information that you are conveying, but a thought process. In order to
do that effectively, you have to proceed line by line on the board
rather than just project the matter on a screen. So it may seem
old fashioned but the black board and the chalk perhaps coupled with some projections is probably the most effective way
to teach a subject involving mathematical derivations and analysis. After teaching the course on Heat Transfer for three years,
I felt I should write a textbook on it and I began to do so in
1968. (r m: That was very early.) At that time, there was no book
on the subject written by an Indian author. I decided to give it a
try. I finished writing the book in 1969 and it was published by
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is always somebody ready with some unusual question. Very often that student will not ask the question in the class. After the
period is over, he or she will meet you and say, Sir, you made this
statement. But I dont quite follow you or agree with you. Under
certain circumstances, what you say would not hold. And the
person would go on to describe the situation for which my derivation might not hold. In such cases, my response was to say that
I would think over the query and that the student should meet
me the next day. Then on the next day, I would clarify whether I
was right or wrong, or whether the student had found a situation
which was an exception. Whatever it is, at the end, having clarified the situation, the student is happy, you are happy and more
importantly you now see the larger ramifications of the problem
you were presenting in the class.
rm: So the teacher remains a student at heart?
sps: In a manner of speaking, yes. That kind of attitude helps
and that is what makes teaching exciting and challenging, particularly when you have good students. Let me say one more
thing. You have to take your teaching duties seriously. You cannot say I know this topic and just walk into a class to teach it.
Before every lecture, whatever be the topic and however many
times you may have taught it, you need to be alone for a few
minutes and plan out what you will cover during the hour. You
need to feel a little nervous. (r m: Hmm.) You need to ask yourself whether you are proceeding at the right pace, whether you
need to solve a particular numerical problem or give it to the
class to solve. You must walk into the class with your mind focused on the challenge of doing well and with the attitude that
you want to do well. Once that is the case, than teaching is fun.
Fortunately, with me, it has always been that way.
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attention. I worked also on the effects of free stream turbulence on forced convective heat transfer across tubes and on
natural convection heat transfer from fin arrays. Fins are used
extensively in practice for enhancing heat transfer in natural
convection. We studied different configurations with different
orientations and developed correlations useful for design purposes. In all these areas, I had a long term plan of action and
executed it from one year to the next through a series of Ph.D
and M.Tech students. So in any year, I generally had one student
working with me in each of these areas. Then another area of interest was the measurement of thermodynamic and transport
properties of various substances and the prediction of properties of mixtures. In this connection, you will recall that earlier I had mentioned the work on thermal conductivity of liquid
mixtures. I was also interested in the measurement of thermal
conductivity of insulations and the study of the heat transfer
process within fibrous insulations. We built the standard guarded hot plate apparatus for making this measurement and interacted quite a bit with various industries. All the above work was
considered for the Bhatnagar award. Finally I should mention
some important research done later. This was our experimental work on forced convection laminar flow inside tubes having
twisted tape inserts and our work on condensation of refrigerants on low finned tubes. We measured the heat transfer coefficients for a number of refrigerants and a variety of tubes and
came up with a comprehensive correlation with a physical basis
valid for a number of fluids.
The work on Solar Energy started later and was concerned
with thermal applications. Most of it was done with the help of
M.Tech students and was developmental in nature. One of the
major projects undertaken was to build a half ton capacity solar
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rm: And as the Director? While you were Director, which elements of the job gave you the most satisfaction?
sps: Well, I suppose the initiatives that we took with respect to
our academic programmes and the establishment of the schools
of management and information technology gave me the most
satisfaction. Next to that would come the recognition of individuals for what they had done for the Institute, recognition given through the best teachers awards, the distinguished alumnus
awards and the distinguished service awards.
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stitution moves along, it goes through ups and downs. Right now,
we are on an up. iits are being looked up to, the brand produced
by us is being saluted, and the newspapers are full of news about
us. People respect an iit for its academics, for its research, for
its development and for its interactions with industry. They are
proud of our alumni. So this is very much a period of an up. Internally also, there is a sense of satisfaction because this is the
highest we have gone up in public esteem so far. But I would hesitate to say that this is a golden period. I think we can do better,
probably much better.
rm: Time will tell.
sps: Yes, that is a good way to put it. Time will tell. Perhaps, fifty
years down the line, people might call this a golden period.
rm: Perhaps we could move on now to the ways in which the academic flavour of iit Bombay has evolved over the years, especially with the additions to its early core engineering strength.
We had the traditional engineering departments like Civil Engineering, Electrical Engineering, etc, and the science departments in place fairly early on. But then, we started to see the
introduction of new centres and interdisciplinary programmes,
such as the Industrial Design Centre, the Biomedical Engineering programme, the Biotechnology programme and others not
traditionally associated with engineering. In the course of the
introduction of these new disciplines, would you be able to remember the general reaction of your faculty colleagues in the
Institute?
sps: The Industrial Design Centre (i dc) was the first addition
in 1969 or thereabouts. What I remember is that the building
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opposite Mechanical Engineering in the corridor was originally built to be an Annexe for the Mechanical Engineering Department. Suddenly one day in 1969 when it was ready for occupation,
we were told that it would not be available for Mechanical Engineering and that instead a new centre was to come there. Some
of us who had been allocated lab space in the Annexe were a little
upset, but there was nothing we could do about it.
There was really no consultation or discussion with the faculty
about starting a new activity like Industrial Design in the iit.
Not that there would have been any opposition to such an endeavour. By and large, my experience has been that faculty colleagues
have not had much to say about the start of an activity outside
their department. Indeed, their thoughts are mostly centred
around the working of their department. Even today, it is much
the same. If something new is to happen within a department,
the immediate reaction is How is it going to affect me? Will my
funds be affected? Will my lab space be reduced? Will my teaching load increase? That is the way faculty members look upon
the introduction of anything new. So if you start a new centre like
idc, which does not affect them directly, I do not think there are
any strong feelings either for or against such initiatives.
The start of the interdisciplinary programmes, one by one, in
the late seventies and early eighties elicited a little more discussion because they had to be physically accommodated in
the existing departments. Also in some cases, like the Energy Systems Engineering programme, or the Corrosion Science
and Engineering programme, there were some commonalities
with existing courses. Thus in the Senate, some of the conservative members felt that there was no need to start these new
M.Tech programmes at all. Everything that was proposed could
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Department should not only play a strong role in the undergraduate curriculum, but have an active on-going programme
of research. This feeling comes partly from my background of
having been at mit. mit has very strong departments in economics, philosophy, linguistics, anthropology, literature and so
on. Having seen the role of these subjects in the undergraduate
curriculum there and having undergone an undergraduate programme in India in which there no subject in the humanities
and social sciences, I feel that I missed something.
I think I mentioned earlier that in the beginning, the Humanities and Social Sciences Department at iit Bombay was seen as
a kind of service department. There were only six faculty members, two for teaching English, two for philosophy, one for economics and one for teaching the Russian language. Basically
their job was to teach their subjects to about three hundred undergraduate students in the first and second years. I think they
repeated their lectures two or three times a week. This role was
considered appropriate for them till Professor Kelkar came in
1970. He took stock of the situation and it was during his four
years that the department was expanded to about 16 or 17 faculty members. Apart from teaching the core courses in the first
half of the undergraduate programme, they also started to teach
elective courses in the final year. Suddenly the department acquired a certain status and this has remained over the years.
The interesting thing to note is that in spite of the discouraging ambience, some of the early teachers in the h&ss Department were outstanding. I still remember Mrs. Swamidasan who
used to teach Philosophy. One would see her quite often sitting
down under the mango tree at the end of the corridor near the
Chemical Engineering Department and discussing something
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about her subject with one or two students whom she had met
on the way home. That image of her sitting down and explaining something very patiently remains etched in my mind. Later on I came to know her well because we were members of an
Institute committee. The teachers at that time were good dedicated people and they needed the boost they got during Professor Kelkars time. Subsequently the Department has not grown
much over the years. Today it runs a M.Phil programme in Planning and Development which is doing reasonably well and there
are a fair number of research scholars working for their Ph.D
degrees. Considering these activities and the potential for doing much more, the Department is relatively small. There are
only about three or four faculty members in each of the areas,
Economics, Sociology, Psychology, Philosophy and English. In
my view, these are sub-critical groups. I believe we need a larger department which interacts vigorously in research projects
with the other departments, schools and centres. In addition,
it may be worthwhile to separate a discipline like Economics
and create a separate Department of Economics. This view
has not been articulated before, but I believe it needs serious
consideration. The proposed department could have a faculty
strength of say ten to fifteen members, run a postgraduate degree programme of its own and focus its research in areas of interest to an institute of technology. Indeed, I feel that such a
department could play a very useful role in the overall growth
of the Institute.
rm: That is to say, along with the technology-oriented School of
Management?
sps: Yes, something like that. It would result in more interdisciplinary research in the Institute.
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fact, very often the cost in India is higher because of import duties, shipping costs, etc. So money does play an important role
in giving a boost to research and it is important to note that it
is one of the constraints. If we want iit Bombay to come up to
the standard that Caltech has set, say fifty years from now, we
should be willing to spend money like Caltech is spending for
continuously updating its research facilities. Then we can hope
to attract better students and more post-doctoral fellows, and a
higher quality of work will follow. It is a vicious circle. iit has
partly broken out of it. It is not as if we are not getting any students for research; it is not as if we have no money for building
up research facilities. Something good is happening, but a lot
more needs to happen and that is why the pace is slow.
rm: I suppose we need to wait for a wealthier India.
sps: We need to wait for a wealthier India. Yes, that is one way
to put it.
r m: Remaining on the r & d front, one of the initiatives that
has been taken at iit Bombay is the setting up of various centres, some independent of the departments. These centres were
meant to stimulate interdisciplinary research and bring departments together. For example, I am speaking of the Centre for
Studies in Resources Engineering (c sr e) or the Advanced Centre for Research in Electronics (a cr e). There have been a number of centres of this kind. Looking at them over the years, do you
think they have succeeded in serving their intended purpose?
sps: Yes, to a certain extent they have. Before I proceed to amplify that statement, let me clarify some thing. In our Institute,
the word centre has a variety of meanings. We have centres like
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minal to the Santa Cruz terminal. The ubiquitous post box was
designed by idc in the seventies and then re-designed more recently. The logo of the Posts and Telegraph Department was also designed by idc. These are visible products. Consider the
work of our Centre for Environmental Science and Engineering.
Faculty members from cese have been involved in preparing
reports concerning the environmental impact of many national and local projects. Similarly faculty in the Civil Engineering
Department has been requested to submit its opinion on many
transportation problems and construction issues. Some of the
issues are controversial and it is not unusual for the Institute to
take a stand based on its technical assessment. I can say confidently that our consultancy efforts are definitely valued.
Our faculty has also been active in many projects of national importance. Consider for instance, the development of
the Light Combat Aircraft (l c a). The Aerospace Engineering Department has done a number of projects for it. Some of
the projects done by our faculty members for the space programme, particularly by the Micro-Electronics Group, have
been highly appreciated. Projects done in Mechanical Engineering and Civil Engineering for the Department of Atomic Energy are also noteworthy. So in many ways, the Institute
has done useful work for industry and for government departments, both in strategic and non-strategic areas and the volume
of that work continues to grow. The only thing we have to guard
against while doing consultancy work is not to get trapped into doing routine work which is of a repetitive nature. You see,
Rohit, such work earns you money, but after a while it is nothing more than that. Let us say you have a machine or an instrument which measures some property and industry needs the
measured value. It could be the viscosity of a liquid or the com-
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pressive strength of concrete. I am just mentioning two examples. I could pick out dozens. You happen to have the machines
and industrial firms come because they value the test report issued by the Institute. It opens up many doors for them. So they
come over and over again for getting such testing work done.
On paper it sounds good. The Institute earns money, the faculty member concerned earns money and even the technical staff
in the laboratory earn money. But in reality, it is not the kind of
activity in which the Institute should be involved. Such work
is best left to test houses. The same remarks also apply to Continuing Education Programmes (c ep). The Institute conducts
a number of ceps all round the year. These programmes help
in the dissemination of knowledge and also earn good revenue.
However, the Institute has to avoid the trap of conducting programmes which are below a certain level.
To sum up, iit Bombays interaction with the outside world
through consultancy work, through sponsored research and
through continuing education programmes has grown steadily
over the years and we have done well.
rm: And while we are on the subject of iit Bombays relationship with the wider world, we come to the tricky question of
iit Bombays projection in the media. How have the media, the
press, television and so on been portraying us? What impressions have you gathered over the years about this aspect?
sps: As far as the media were concerned, till about 1975, we hardly existed. (r m: Is that so?) I dont recall reading anything in the
newspapers reporting something that had happened at the iit.
Of course, there was hardly any television coverage then. The only real exception was the convocation in 1972 when Indira Gandhi
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and perhaps settled there, then the comment usually was that
iit was a nice place. Their child had received a good education,
got admission abroad easily with an assistantship and was now
doing well. On the other hand, if it was a parent whose ward had
not got through the jee, it was not unusual to receive an earful.
What good was the iit doing? they would say. All it did was to
give its students a degree and than they all went abroad. Why
should the nation spend money on it? These were the points of
view being expressed and that is how the issue of the brain drain
started coming into focus in the eighties. People started to talk
about it. The comment, Some of your students go abroad gradually changed to A lot of your students go abroad to All your
students go abroad. It was a little disconcerting and it happened
quite often, as soon as you identified yourself as being from an
iit. No amount of arguing helped. You could say that all iit
alumni did not settle down abroad. A fair number did, but a fair
number were in India as well. But we made no impact. The press
loved the brain drain story and played it up from time to time.
It was with this background that I conducted the study on the
brain drain of iit Bombays B.Tech alumni.
r m: I was about to ask if that was a part of the stimulus for
your study.
sps: Yes, that was the stimulus. It does not feel nice to be repeatedly told by people outside the iit system that all your students go abroad when you know that is not the case. At the same
time, the fact was we had no solid data of our own. Sometime in
1985, I received a letter from Dr. Rajeswari of the Department of
Science and Technology (d st). It was a general letter addressed
to all the iits asking if anyone at the iit would be interested in
conducting a study on the brain drain. I contacted her immedi-
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brand name now. It feels nice to read some of the things written,
but I think the media are overdoing it. They are talking and writing a little too much. Take the Joint Entrance Examination as an
example. It was always a difficult exam and getting through was
a tough proposition. It is so today. The main difference is that
there is far too much discussion on the nature of the papers and
their duration. There is a lot of publicity when the results are
declared, there are write-ups on the coaching classes and interviews with the All-India rankers, and so on.
In an overall sense, the public view the iits in a more mature
manner and they agree that iits have contributed to the nations
growth. There is no question about that. Names like Narayanmurthy and Nilekani are household names. People know that
they are iit alumni and that they have built up a giant company
like Infosys right here in India. As Chairman of aerb, if I was introduced to anybody as the former Director of iit Bombay, there
was instant recognition. One noticed a great deal of respect for
the institution. In educational institutions abroad, there is certainly an awe. I think the programme 60 Minutes shown on cbs in
June 2003, had a lot to do with this feeling. Its nice to know that
there is all-round respect for the iits today, not just iit Bombay
alone, and many now agree that it was far-sighted decision to establish them. Most people have also welcomed the governments
decision to set up more such institutions.
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ent. They are going to occur. There is no point in saying they are
good or bad, they are right or wrong. We have to live with them
and adjust to them.
Now coming to the issue of interaction between students and
faculty members, I shall speak of the interaction which takes
place outside the class room. I think it is important to recognize first that iit Bombay is located in a big city with many attractions and activities. Even in 1965, Powai was not very far
from the city and in addition, a fair number of students used
to have their homes in the city. My guess is that about 50 or 55
percent had their homes in Mumbai or Pune, or had close relatives there. Because of this nearness, the weekend was a time
when students would disappear from the hostels. Hostels always had a deserted look on Saturdays and Sundays. That is so
even today, although the percentage of students from Mumbai
and its surroundings has reduced considerably. Real interaction
between students and faculty is possible on a residential campus
only through programmes, cultural or social, which occur during the weekends, either in the evening or during the day time.
That has never been a highlight of the calendar at iit Bombay.
You organize something on a Saturday evening, the chances are
you wont be too successful in rounding up students or faculty
to take part in it. On a week day, there are other compulsions.
Many students may have a test on the next day or an assignment to submit because of which they find it difficult to participate. The net result is that student-faculty interaction outside
the class room at our Institute has never been a feature of campus life. It has always been weak and has, if anything, become
weaker over the years. I am stating this as a fact. I am not passing any value judgement on it. That is the way it is. It would be
fair to say that here the interactions between faculty members
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and students have always been more business like and generally
restricted to office hours. Students meet you by appointment
or drop by your office and many faculty spend a fair amount of
time in such discusions. However if by student-faculty interaction you mean that the two sit around over a cup of tea and discuss everything under the sun, then that kind of thing does not
happen too often at iit Bombay.
In spite of this overall state of affairs, there have been some faculty members who have had close associations with students.
They have always been a small number. They have enjoyed having students visit them at home and in turn have taken part in
many hostel functions. Some have been wardens of hostels for
long periods and enjoyed the work involved. In this connection,
the first name which comes to mind from the old days is that of
Professor Isaac. He was the warden of Hostel 3 for a long time
and if you dropped in at his house in the evening, it was quite
common to meet a few students. He enjoyed having students
around him and the feeling was mutual. The other name which
comes to my mind is that of Professor T.R.R. Mohan of the
Metallurgical Engineering Department. I remember that when
alumni who had passed in the seventies came to visit the Institute later, they would invariably ask for Jimmy Isaac or Mohan.
Thats nice, isnt it?
I said a few moments ago that student-faculty interaction outside office hours has probably decreased over the years. One of
the reasons for this is that faculty involvement with the outside
world has increased enormously over the years. In the sixties,
there was hardly any sponsored research or consultancy. As a result, faculty members rarely had any reason to travel outside the
Institute on this account. Also, very few faculty members were
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members of Government committees or of selection committees requiring outside visits. I remember that as a professor in
the seventies, I used to have to go out only about once or twice
a month and this was a lot compared to other faculty. Today the
situation is very different. A typical faculty member interacts
with a number of government agencies, educational institutes
and private organizations. This is due to the increase in consultancy work, sponsored research and continuing education programmes organized outside the campus. It is also because of
the advice sought by government and municipal agencies and
by other educational institutes wanting faculty to come over to
deliver lectures. So for a variety of reasons, the commitment of
the faculty to the outside world has increased. It is necessary
because it is a part of the overall activities of the Institute, but
it probably has had the effect of decreasing student-faculty interaction further.
rm: So in this scenario, there shouldnt really be a great danger
of students feeling neglected compared to the past?
sps: I think as a general statement what you are saying is correct; students shouldnt feel that way. But I must hasten to say
that that all students cannot be lumped under one category as
if they are all the same. We admit an amazing variety of students. They come from different economic classes, from different communities and from different regions, and it is a fact
that a few of them withdraw into their shells when they come
here. They dont want to project themselves. Very often they are
shy, diffident and self-conscious. They feel that if they say something, somebody will react and so they tend to withdraw, stay
within themselves and sometimes even physically, stay within
their hostel room as much as possible. We need to identify such
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students and see that they are taken care of, that they come out
of their shells and their personality blossoms. It is my belief that
every student who comes here has something in him. It is a question of finding out what it is. To come back to your question,
while I agree with your statement that students in general do
not need us beyond the normal academic interaction, there is a
small number, perhaps only 5 or 10 percent, who do. We need to
identify them and see that they are not neglected. If we can do
so, we would be really doing our job.
rm: Perhaps the danger of that sort of neglect is greater now because we are all so absorbed in our various assignments.
sps: Thats right. That danger is there and thats where the Dean
of Student Affairs, the wardens, student counselors and a number of other people whom we have appointed are important. Fellow students are also very important. It is they who notice such
persons more readily. They can facilitate the task of identifying
students who need help. I think that in this particular respect
we can do a lot more with our students.
rm: Every time something like a tragedy happens on the campus, the collective conscience is aroused and a lot is said of the
pressure under which students have to perform here. Do you
think that this pressure or this exacting atmosphere is a thing
of the recent past or has it always existed? Have there always
been students who have suffered?
sps: Some pressure has always existed and will continue to exist. It is a fact of modern life in a competitive atmosphere and
we cannot wish it away. Having made that point, may I say that
the number of tragic incidents on the campus is small. The
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media makes a lot out of each incident and people say a lot of
things because one doesnt like to see a young person take his
or her life. It affects all of us and makes us introspect. But, I repeat, the number is small. Lets face it. If you have 4000 students on the campus, there will always be some with problems.
They may have problems associated with their academic performance or with their personal lives or something else. The important thing is to have mechanisms to identify such students
and help them resolve their problems.
r m: Do you think the proportion of students who face these
problems has increased?
sps: No, not at all.
r m: One of the reasons that is cited for this withdrawal into
their shells by some students is the internet and the unlimited
access that we have on campus. In some ways, this is a matter of
pride for iit Bombay. In how many measures do you feel that
the presence of internet is a blessing and in how many measures
is it a curse to the student?
sps: My first comment on your query would be that the internet is now a necessary part of our modern technological lifea
necessary tool. It is, in a manner of speaking, a necessary evil.
You cant manage without the internet any more. For those who
are young, it is a tool with which they have grown up. Just like
waking up, eating food and going to sleep every day, there is the
omnipresent computer which they access all the time. They access it for obtaining information, for contacting people, for entertainment and for all manner of things. In that sense, it is a
blessing. However, the important thing is that an educated per-
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son learns how to handle his time and does not spend unnecessary time on an activity like surfing the internet. He uses it
where it is necessary and doesnt spend his time where it is not
giving too much in return. In short, he views the internet as a
tool which is his slave and does not let it enslave him.
There is always talk on the campus that we should restrict internet access for students, particularly at night, and some measures have been implemented. Quite frankly, I do not believe in
such censorship. Let us not do such things. In the long run, they
do not work out. I think ultimately we have to rely on the good
common sense of the majority of our students and they have that
quality in ample measure. Maybe from time to time, we need to
have people lecturing on the subject of using the internet optimally and not wastefully. That could help.
But what does one do with the few students whom we spoke of
earlier, who stay aloof and lead a withdrawn life sitting in their
hostel rooms? For such students, unlimited access to the internet can be a curse because we know that some of them spend
hours watching movies or playing some games. I think the only answer is to identify them, counsel them, try to alleviate their
worries and get them back into the mainstream. It is not an easy
job, but it has to be done on a one-to-one basis.
rm: We move on now from students currently on the campus to
students who have left us and are now our alumni, many of them
distinguished. One point of concern when I read interviews given by some alumni in the media or read what they have written
is that they attribute their success more to what they learnt in
their hostels as they put it than to what they picked up in the
class room. Sometimes, these are alumni who have made it big
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and are now in the spotlight. This notion seems to strongly influence fresh students coming in every year. How do you react
to this notion and what is your stand on this?
sps: Yes, I have read these views expressed by alumni of all iits.
The book on iitians written by Sandipan De is an example of
what you said. Though the book has many laudatory things to
say about the iit system, there are many places where the point
is made that the real learning was outside the class room. For
that matter, if you read the book Five Point Someone by Chetan
Bhagat, you find similar thoughts being expressed. In fact the
book treats the academic world at iit Delhi with contempt. I
think these books do not take a holistic view and convey an incorrect impression.
Of course, one learns a lot in the hostels and on the playing
fields; nobody denies that fact. I myself stayed in a hostel for
four years during my undergraduate days. I cherish my stay
there and the lifelong friendships which developed as a result.
In a hostel, one learns to live with others, one learns about the
diversity of India and one learns to manage ones problems on
ones own. A stay in a hostel makes you more independent and
teaches you to manage without good food! If there are some
social or cultural programmes in the hostel or in the Institute and you are part of the organizing team, you learn the art
of managing such events or if you are part of the fund raising
activities, you learn the business of finding sponsors. So in a
variety of ways, residing in a hostel is beneficial for ones future. Having noted that fact, one has to also recognize that the
B.Tech degree is ultimately given for the scholastic ability displayed through the prescribed course of studies. Quite frankly,
if somebody says later that all his learning was in the hostel, he
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is talking rubbish. Generally the alumni who make such statements are persons who have not remained in the area of engineering and technology. They are obviously intelligent and have
been admitted to an iit through the jee. It is also likely that
they have good personalities and good communication skills.
Somewhere along the line during their stay at iit, they realize
that they were not meant for a career in science and engineering. Consequently, the moment they get their B.Tech degree,
they drift to a career in areas like marketing, advertising or other areas which they could have gone into with any other type of
Bachelors degree, say a degree in the arts or commerce. (r m:
Quite.) When they look back and ask themselves the question:
Have I needed my knowledge of Physics anywhere? The answer is Not really. Have I used my understanding of Chemistry anywhere? or Have I ever had to use any techniques of
differentiating and integrating expressions learnt in Calculus?
Not really. Then what did I learn at iit? Obviously I learnt
nothing of value in the class room. Whatever I learnt was in the
hostel and through extra-curricular activities. This is the kind
of logic which makes some alumni decry the content of what
is prescribed in the curriculum. I believe that in making such
sweeping statements, they still miss certain important points.
The B.Tech curriculum has courses in the humanities and social sciences and if you care for those courses and the electives
offered, you can learn a lot about society at large, about literature or some area in the social sciences. These studies broaden
your view and help you later on in life.
Consider for a moment a student of the Institute who after obtaining his or her B.Tech degree goes on to do a Ph.D. I dont
think you will find such a person saying that my years at iit were
wasted from the point of view of their academic content. The
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four years here are not just a matter of passing a few courses
in Physics, Chemistry or Engineering and learning a few techniques. The purpose of the four years is to get a grounding in the
basic sciences and engineering sciences, to develop certain analytical skills, to learn the art of doing creative design in engineering, and in parallel to get a feel of some aspects of the humanities
and social sciences. Ultimately as one absorbs this knowledge,
one begins to appreciate how nature can be described in terms
of certain fundamental laws based on experimental evidence.
Once you see the larger picture, you cannot possibly say My
four years of study were wasted.
r m: One may not have had to perform an integration or directly use ones knowledge of physics, but surely the analytical skills one has learnt come in use even if one ends up doing
something entirely different.
sps: Absolutely. I think such statements by alumni need to be
taken with a grain of salt. I believe they get a little carried away
and are not thinking back clearly or in depth about the four-year
curriculum which they underwent.
rm: Well your response brings me to another interesting point
concerning our alumni, namely that a few alumni from the iits
(including iit Bombay) who have made it in their areas of endeavour seem to be getting all the attention for the last six or
seven years. They are in the limelight and are our so-called poster boys. On the other hand, the many, many alumni of our Institute who have done useful things and done very well seem to
have been neglected and are hardly mentioned. Would you like
to point out the sort of contributions made by these alumni?
How do you think this problem can be addressed?
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airport. Whenever I am traveling, I invariably find that somebody walks up to me and says Do you recognize me? Sometimes I do, but very often I have to say I am sorry, I dont. The
person concerned than says I am so-and-so and I passed in this
year. Usually they tell me about their work and where they are
located. They are also keen to know how things are going on in
the Institute. We chat for a little while and then we go our way.
This is how one gets a picture of so many of our alumni working
in India. Let us be very clear. If iit Bombay is anywhere today,
it is as much because of all these unsung heroes as it is to the famous few who are in the limelight.
We have tried to address the problem of alumni who are not so
visible by laying more emphasis on the organization of Alumni
Day in December. This has helped us to bond better with them
and with each other. Senior faculty members of the Institute have
also been making it a point to link up with alumni groups in other
cities in India. Pune and Bangalore are good examples. However, I do not think we have really tapped the wealth of talent available with our alumni. I am not talking of money now. Donations
given by alumni are one way of acknowledging their debt to their
alma mater. I am talking of their intellectual talent, their administrative talent. Alumni can be requested to contribute in a variety of ways by coming to the campus, interacting with present
students and sharing their experiences. In this way, they can give
something back to the Institute and they are more than willing if
only we contact them. If we ask them, they never say no. This is
one area we need to work on, that is to build better bridges with
our alumni and involve them more with the Institute.
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national need. By the way, as an aside, may I say that the distance
education mode of conveying and receiving information is a subject in itself for doing research, very much an evolving area. (r m:
Absolutely.) It is of particular relevance to India because of the
rapid rise in student population and the corresponding shortage
of well-trained faculty for teaching.
Now let me move on to a new topic for discussionthe student
mix in the Institute. This is something which I have always been
concerned about. I do not know if you are aware, Rohit, that although the number of women students on the campus has increased over the years, the percentage has not changed much. In
fact, the available statistics show that the percentage of women
students has remained a little over 10 for the past six or seven
years. Today in 20062007, we have about 4500 students and
the number of women students is about 450. It is of interest to
study the wide variation in the percentage of women students
passing out through our different degree programmes. I carried out such a study along with my colleague, Professor Parikh
for the years 1999 to 2005. In the B.Tech and dual degree programmes (admission through jee), the average is only 5 percent!
In the M.Tech programmes, the percentage is about 10, while
in the M.Sc programmes, it is around 28. For the other Masters programmes (M.Des, M.Phil, M.Mgmt, and M.S) as well
as the Ph.D programme, the average percentage is 17. This data
is quite revealing. In particular, the low percentage of women
entering the Institute through jee should be a cause of concern
when we consider what is happening at the national level. The
number of women students joining undergraduate programmes
in engineering all over the country has increased dramatically.
Professor Parikh and I conducted two studies, the first in the
late 80s and the second in the late 90s, with the objective of
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quantifying the increase. Today, in a typical engineering institution in Mumbai, say vjti, women constitute 20 percent of
the student population. In comparison, the percentage about 25
years ago was probably around 5. If you look at southern states
like Kerala or Tamilnadu, in many engineering colleges women
today make up 50 percent of the class in many branches. I have
often described this increase as a silent revolution with far-reaching implications comparable in some respects to the green revolution and the white revolution. This silent revolution originated in
the southern states, has spread to the western states and is now
gradually making its presence felt in the north and the east.
rm: This is something like in medicine.
sps: Yes, but in medicine it occurred earlier. In engineering, the
increase in women enrolment has come much later. But let me
come back to the point I was making that the low percentage
of women students entering our B.Tech and dual degree programmes is a cause of concern. Consider a group of a few hundred very bright young women and men who have passed their
12th exam and are keen on a career in engineering. About half of
this group will be women and half will be men. The women are
as talented as the men, and certainly as capable of going in for
engineering as men. Yet in spite of this equality, today the position is that if 100 students out of this group qualify through the
jee, only four or five will be women and the remaining 95 or 96
will be men. A very large number of talented women, probably
more talented than some of the qualifying men, are not joining
an iit. In time, the percentage of women qualifying through
jee will undoubtedly increase, but the present trends indicate
that it will take a long time and that the iits will lag behind
other engineering institutions in the country in this respect.
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For this reason, I feel that we need to set in place some proactive policies which will accelerate the process of women coming to iit. Other engineering institutions have more women
and we should certainly have them as well. Among other things,
we should make it known widely that we have a fine residential
campus with hostels for women. We should also make it known
that women who come here receive the best education in the
country and that there is plenty of extra-curricular activity for
an individual to develop her personality.
r m: Could you outline some more proactive measures that
could be taken by iit Bombay to encourage the enrolment of
women?
sps: Well, I suppose an obvious measure is to waive tuition fees
and to offer more scholarships which would cover living expenses. I see no reason why we cannot do that. These would be steps
in the right direction. I believe some states like Gujarat and Rajasthan are already helping women students in this manner.
rm: Any other factors influencing the low enrolment through
the jee?
sps: Yes, there are. Let me bring another dimension into this
discussion. One of the reasons why the number of women entering through the jee is low is that while girls receive encouragement from their parents to study upto 12th and beyond, they
probably do not get that extra push needed to get through the
jee. On the other hand, boys do. The extra push is needed in the
form of money to be spent on tutorial classes or the money and
time spent in going to a place like Kota. A large number of the
boys who qualify spend a whole year after 12th in a place away
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from home preparing for the jee. Mind you, these boys are good
students to start with. The Kota experience makes them ready
for our entrance exam. It trains them so that they will be able
to get into an iit. Parents are not inclined to do the same thing
with girls and that is why a very small number make it through
the jee. While making these remarks, it might seem to you,
Rohit, that I approve of the presence of the tutorial classes
empire. I dont! But the reality today is that we cannot wish them
away. Ideally, I would like to see meritorious girls and boys prepare for the jee on their own as in the old days and secure admission to an iit without a break after the 12th exam.
Another fact which needs to be recognized is that engineering
is still seen as a mans domain by older people. We need to make
it known that it is not so any more. One needs to demonstrate
how successful some women engineers have been. We need to
show the variety of engineering activities they are engaged in
all over India. This is where iits can play a role. We can request
our women alumni to go out and speak at junior colleges or high
schools and tell girls to take up engineering studies at iits. One
can think of other innovative measures as well.
Finally one more point needs to be made. It has been suggested that in order to speed up the process of women taking up engineering careers, there should be a quota reserved for women.
It has been suggested that 30 percent of the seats should be reserved for women. Frankly I am not in favour of such a reservation. The winds of change are already there. What we need is to
take a variety of proactive measures to speed up the process. If
we do so, I think we can reach a goal of 20 to 25 percent at our
iit in another 10 years.
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rm: The new directions for growth which you have mentioned
will call for more faculty. How do we meet this need?
sps: Of course, growth in activities implies that iit Bombay
will require more faculty members. They are the key. In the coming days, if any thing is going to hold up iits growth in academic
programmes and research activities, it is going to be the quality and strength of our faculty. It is not easy to get faculty and we
need to work in different ways to try and encourage young qualified persons to come to this Institute. Today, we have only about
400. With the increase in student population which will come as
a result of the implementation of the new reservation policy regarding obcs and because of other increases, I foresee that after
25 years we may need a faculty strength between 600 and 700.
That is a tall order when you also consider the fact that on an average 3 to 4 percent of our faculty retire every year. Remember,
we have to hire that number every year just to keep the faculty
strength constant and that is proving to be quite difficult.
What we need to do is to create more attractive conditions here
with more incentives so that bright young people with excellent
credentials will want to join. Now most persons will say that the
first and obvious thing to do is to change the salary structure and
offer higher salaries. This is not possible for us to do on our own
because we are part of a system, the iit system. The basic salary and the allowances which go with it for each designation are
fixed by the Central Government and paid from the grant given
by the Ministry. But we can offer something more by way of incentives over and above what we are already giving. The existing
incentives are not inconsequential when we consider that almost
nothing was offered 20 or 30 years ago. Today when a young faculty member joins, we ensure he gets office space and internet
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access both from his office and his residence on the campus. We
allot the faculty member some laboratory space for his research
work if he is doing experimental work or try to provide him with
adequate computational facilities if his work is computer oriented. In addition, we provide a seed grant of rs 10 lakhs so that
he can get going with his research and write proposals to funding agencies. In addition, there are excellence in teaching awards
and a few awards for excellence in research and in technology development. These are paid from donations made by alumni.
The question is, what more can we do in order to attract outstanding people as faculty members and wean them away from
tempting offers from the usa, from multinational r & d laboratories set up in India and abroad, from it companies all over
the world and so on? I think we need to have a scheme by which
certain faculty members can be paid honoraria of the order of
rs 20,000 or 30,000 per month in addition to their regular salary. This top up would be made from endowments created for
the purpose from donations and would be paid to faculty who
meet high benchmarks set in terms of teaching standards, research output, book writing, etc. The government would not
be averse to the Institute making such payments because the
money would come from endowments set up from donations.
Of course, the amounts paid would be taxable. Thus a faculty
member getting an honorarium of rs 20,000 per month would
effectively get about rs 14,000 if he is in the 30 percent income
tax bracket. Whenever one creates such arrangements, there
will always be some heartburn because some faculty will get the
extra amounts and others wont. It is therefore important to announce the benchmarks well in advance and to have transparent procedures for deciding who gets the awards. In order to be
an effective mechanism, it is important that a reasonable num-
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research university of its kind in India with standards approaching the best in the world. Obviously for a country of Indias size,
one world-class institution is not enough. We need more universities of this type and the iits are the best bet among those
existing for attaining this level of excellence. The path I am suggesting is feasible and will find wide acceptance. It will place the
Institute on a stronger footing and we will be fulfilling our commitments to the nation even better.
rm: Well, this brings me to my next question. Would there not
be some difficulty in projecting this transition to the general public? After all, the iits are known for their B.Tech programmes.
Before making the transition, one must convince the public at
large that the transition to a research institute is desirable.
sps: As far as the public is concerned, I dont think there is
much of an issue at all. The public is concerned with the number of students we admit through the jee. So long as we do
not decrease that number, the general public is not going to be
troubled. Let us say, today we admit 500 students, some for the
B.Tech and some for the dual degree programme. Next year, if
we wish to take some more in the dual degree programme as
compared to the B.Tech programme, the public will go along
so long as we do not decrease the total number admitted and
we explain the reasons for our change. Now I am not suggesting any decrease in the number of admissions we make through
the jee. If anything, if you keep in mind some of the other suggestions which I have made for the future, we will have a gradual increase in the intake.
As far as the Institute is concerned, what is probably of more importance is that we should have the assent of the faculty. They
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33
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((*((
A B OU T T H E AU T HOR
180
A B OU T T H E I N T E RV I E W E R
181
A BBR E V I AT ION S
Pertaining to iit Bombay and the iit System
acre
Boa rd
C ou nci l
cdeep
cese
cep
cr ab
csr e
dd
dpgc
dugc
gate
h & ss
idc
jee
kr esit
lt
mhr d
nasa
pgapec
pgpc
rsic
saif
sine
som
ugapec
ugpc
182
Other Abbreviations
aer b
asme
barc
bhel
bhu
Ca ltech
dst
iim
iti
mit
obc
s asmir a
sc
st
tifr
vjti
183