14
CONVERSATIONS
Unlocking the secrets
TAN SRI ABDUL KHALID IBRAHIM CAME TO PROMINENCE AFTER
THE “DAWN RAID” OF THE LONDON STOCK EXCHANGE IN 1981
WHICH DELIVERED THE GUTHRIE GROUP INTO MALAYSIAN HANDS.
AT DAWN ON MARCH 9, THE FORMER CEO OF PNB WAS PART OF
ANOTHER COUP WHICH BROUGHT SELANGOR UNDER PAKATAN
RAKYAT. THE MENTRI BESAR TALKS TO TERENCE FERNANDEZ AND
MARIA J. DASS ABOUT UMNO, PIG FARMING AND THE STATE’S
DIRECTION UNDER HIS LEADERSHIP.
Tan Sri, the integrated pig
farming issue is getting
out of hand. Is it true you
approved such a large area?
Well, the exco during (then
mentri besar Datuk Seri Dr
Mohamad) Khir Toyo’s time
approved over 300 acres
(120ha) of land. And he
admitted that he in fact agreed
in principle. There’s no issue
here. Let me explain. When
I came in (as mentri besar)
I read all their reports, quite
elaborate reports. I don’t think
they made a decision without
much thought. This indicated
that they were serious. They
went around town … they
even went overseas, did
environment reports, studied
them and made their decision.
And as a professional, I looked
at the decision and said “hey,
this is reasonable”.
But of course I wanted to
make sure of some issues such
as integrity and equality where
all pig farmers are involved
and the sharing of the co-
operative is fair. So I improved
the implementation process
and said “OK, we approve it”.
After all, the other option
is to just leave them as they
are and there will be pig
farms everywhere; or ban pig
farming altogether which is too
drastic. This is the best option.
It is clean and sophisticated. So
we had three options and we
chose the best one.
Your administration
seems to be going out of
your way to bridge the
cultural and religious
divide – a legacy of
your predecessor. Do
you fear you may
be alienating the
Malay/Muslim
community with
these overtures,
including
preaching
a more just
economic policy
for non-Muslim
communities?
Not at all. Part of my
exco team includes
three people from
PAS who are highly
professional ... doctors,
architects. Dr Hassan
Ali is a motivator with a
PhD in town and country
planning. They look at
things very
rationally, so
even if
you have a so-called Islamic
framework, you have to take
care of all the people who are
going to live with you.
Your detractors say you are
compromising on Malay
rights.
Oh ya, I’m quite sure they are.
The people from Umno are
using it to say how PAS and
even I betrayed the Malays by
allowing this sort of thing (the
pig farming issue) to happen.
But politically, we are
in a different environment.
Fifty years have passed.
We are already globalised
and this is the way to go. In
Ijok, the younger generation
contributed the majority of
my votes. They came from the
21-40-year age group. They
wanted change. Those who
are close to retirement don’t
seem to want much change.
People are getting more and
more globalised and vocal.
And only now the BN realises
that newspapers are not the
only communication platform.
They don’t go into the internet
or alternative media.
So is it safe to say there
won’t be any more temple
or church issues in
Selangor, with the previous
administration seemingly
reluctant to approve new
places of worship?
The exco has started a
committee headed by
Teresa Kok,
which includes Dr A. Xavier
Jayakumar and Ronnie Liu for
non-Muslim affairs. First we
must accept this: How many
churches or temples do we
have so we can secure them
… are they in the right place,
so we can rectify it if they are
not. They should not be on
TOL (temporary occupational
licence) land or squatter areas.
If need be, we must recognise
the land for religious purposes,
then we charge them rental of
RM1 a year. We are moving
towards this.
Previously, each time there
was a request for a church,
one was told it could not
take the shape of a church,
no crosses must be visible
and the location is in some
industrial area. Churches
end up looking like
factories! Even the Shah
Alam church took 26 years
to establish.
We must change this. Even
like pig farming, they raise
their songkok for this and that.
It is not the way to go. We must
change this mindset.
Cabins belonging to
political parties have
mushroomed on open
spaces and playgrounds
around Selangor. Will
you be demolishing these
illegal structures?
We have given instructions to
all local councils to follow the
law. Ronnie is in charge of this.
We have to work in stages.
All public amenities must be
protected. But that issue we
are not pushing yet as there
are bigger issues we are
tackling such as protecting
forest reserves. We want
to contain the reserve
land from deforestation.
There are about 4,000ha.
With the playgrounds, it
is a matter of one or two
acres, but here we are
talking of thousands of
hectares.
Some of these forest
reserves are alienated
to state-linked
companies.
Ya lah, to some state
agency, but there is a
slight twist. There is a
joint venture. The state
agency gets a small 30%. If
the company fails, the state
will suffer, if the
company
theSun
makes money, it gets 70%. So
we are reviewing it. If we don’t,
there is a bigger problem.
So these playgrounds, we
leave it as it is until we sort
out certain major issues.
Of course we are coming
back to them as we need to
provide alternatives, and if the
playground has been intruded
into, we take action.
One reason open spaces
continued to be developed
under the previous admin-
istration was the state
government’s refusal to
gazette them as requested
by the prime minister.
We will gazette them now.
But we must also understand
the meaning of zoning. To
these people, zoning means
tomorrow you can de-zone.
So we have to explain zoning
and a lot of research has to go
towards this, as we don’t want
situations where you zone one
area and then later discover
that it is not suitable.
Of course the (state) staff
have to face up to the new
way of thinking. At every
discussion we ask about social,
financial and environmental
implications. So they really
need to get used to us. Because
last time it was just “saya
setuju” (I agree), you don’t need
to consider any implication.
Once you get a letter (from
the top), everything else is
irrelevant and you don’t need
to think or write a report. But
the culture is different now and
is starting to take a bite at them!
Do you trust your officers?
They were once working
The people hand-in-glove with the
from Umno former administration. How
are using it to do you reconcile this fact
with the reality that you
say how PAS need them to help you run
and even I the state?
betrayed the I have to live with it because
Malays by if I want to make changes and
want the people to be with
allowing this me, I cannot throw everyone
sort of thing out, no one will trust me as an
(pig farming agent of change. Of course, if
issue) to they cannot cope with the new
happen. But way of working and thinking,
they can opt not to work with
politically, we us. Of course I have taken a
are in a differ- positive attitude that everyone
ent environ- is interested in change.
ment. Fifty
But it is difficult to discard
years have the old ways, one reason
passed. We being that one has built
are already this relationship with his
globalised and previous boss over the last
this is the way eight years.
I can see things change. Now
to go.” they realise, as there was a
recent statement by Khir Toyo
on the duplication of land titles
which hurt a lot of staff. He
said it was “in-house” work. It
frightens everyone. It could be
one or two persons involved,
but if you say “in-house work”,
then I have to pacify everyone.
Now I am winning their trust.
At one stage they said “this chap
will protect me”. But now this
chap is not protecting anyone!
He is protecting whoever he is
protecting (laughs).
Speaking of fraud in land
offices, it is a problem that
previous administrations
have failed or refused
to address. What makes
you think yours will be
successful in resolving it?
First, we need to have proper
electronic recording such as E-
Tanah which is in place; then
you must make it available
and be transparent, and the
procedure must be well known
and there is no such thing as
official secrets any more. I am
unlocking the secrets so that
| THURSDAY APRIL 17 2008
more people will gain access to
their records and there will be
fewer instances of duplication.
So you have uncovered
more dirt apart from the
dodgy land deals?
Yes, but I have to take the
attitude that I am not here on a
witch hunt. I am here to develop
Selangor and at the same to
make the requisite changes.
We see you have roped in
the Anti Corruption Agency
for this.
Oh ya, the ACA was here this
(April 9) morning and they
have said they will be doing
forensic accounting. Of course
the ACA also needs to learn
to live with us and share
information and make a case.
But the long and short of it
is that the ACA also has its
own political masters in the
federal system. So sometimes,
even after their hard work,
the decision to pursue the
case is not in their hands but
unfortunately in the hands of
the AG (attorney-general). The
AG on whatever wisdom he has
or influence, may not pursue it.
So we are learning to work with
the local ACA and later on learn
to fight the bigger group.
So, you aren’t confident of
the eventual findings of the
investigations?
Well, during our discussions
with the ACA, Ronnie and
Hassan Ali were there. They are
experts in lodging ACA reports
from their non-government
days (laughs) … as many as
20 to 30 and none have been
pursued. I am not very opti-
mistic, but at least now, people
are seeing that we are doing
something about it and these
people (Ronnie and Hassan)
have the training to push for it.
You said you would run
Selangor as a corporation.
Having had a look at the
books, are we strong
fiscally?
Yes, fortunately. Selangor is in
much better shape because of
the urbanisation. The quit rent
received by Selangor is much
higher than other states in the
peninsula. It is in a vibrant
environment and I think the
state has enough resources to
sustain itself. The budget is
always a balanced budget. But
the state can always improve.
For example, I look at the fund
management; they could get
2-3% on their liquid funds, but
I can stretch it a bit by 4-5%.
And 2-3% over RM200 million
– that pays the salaries of
everyone for one or two years.
So the state has these
resources, but how you refine it
to move into a more competitive
and value-added level takes a
bit of time, but it is there.
It is not that you are taking
over a losing company – then
to move up you must cut cost.
If you translate the state into
a company, this company has
resources and turnover, but
you can make it better. That
means if someone can make
it grow 2-3%, you can make it
grow 7-8% with a lot of work.
Can you do without federal
funding, since the Rural
Development Minister
had announced that such
funds will go directly to BN
appointees in the state?
We are not worried about that.
If they channel it to Selangor,
the multiplier will still be in
Selangor. But, I don’t want to
waste my time going to the
federal government asking for
money because I have enough
theSun | THURSDAY APRIL 17 2008
work on my hands managing
the resources.
I am quite happy if the
federal ministers do this
because the people will now
know that these are the people
who should not be there. So
over time, they will be cast
aside. The more they continue
to do this, the better we are
politically. Let me say to you
... these people, they are in
Umno ... one example is this
pig farming issue. The report
shows that MCA proposed this
and then Umno worked with
them, saying “let’s do it”.
Nothing to do with racial
reasons; it is socially good and
economically viable to have a
clean and modern pig farming
industry.
Now here comes a chap
who wants to champion Umno
who ignores MCA and now
says it cannot be done. Can you
imagine? If MCA continues to
lick Umno I don’t know what
level of dignity they have! This
is the partner that they have.
Can you imagine this? And
none of the MCA leaders are
willing to speak up. And here
Umno says forget about the
pig farmers, forget about the
Chinese, even though they
are in a weak position. I am
enjoying this. It is a good thing
for us. Let the Chinese and the
Indians open their eyes to what
sorts of fellows they are dealing
with. Hey, it’s true you know.
If I were an MCA man who
promoted this, and now I am
being betrayed, what am I going
to tell the other Chinese? This
is what people tell me and I say
promote it so society knows
that this is what you have
experienced the last 50 years.
Back to the earlier
question, you have said
Selangor can be self-
sufficient.
Of course, but I still grumble
as Selangor pays a lot more
in taxes than other states. If
they don’t want to go through
the states due to political
affiliations, I am not worried,
but if they don’t want to invest
in the people of these states, I
think it is unconstitutional as it
is ultra virus to their decision-
making as the people in these
states pay taxes.
I think they are doing it
(investing in Selangor). If
they aren’t or they try to do
like in Terengganu when it
was under PAS, subduing the
state government there, they
are killing themselves. They
are shooting themselves in
the foot! Lower growth in
Selangor means lower growth
in Malaysia.
How has investor
confidence been over the
last month?
I have more than enough
investors coming to make
deals with me. I got calls from
international investors who
have funds and say “I allocated
US$500 million (RM1.6 billion)
for you, you decide (where to
invest)”. So I call them back
and say “I’m sorry, I am now
mentri besar, not your fund
manager!” (laughs)
Do they now feel it is easier
and cheaper to do business
in the state?
I trust it is easier and
cheaper (laughs). We have
received many proposals.
I told them to give me a bit
of time, so I can settle the
administration. If I go out now
and do investment marketing
when the infrastructure and
administration cannot cope
with their needs, they will be
frustrated, so I must get myself
ready first.
Is it prudent for the
Selangor govt to be
involved in rescuing the
Port Klang Free Zone
(PKFZ)? What is in it for the
state? Already RM4.6 billion
of taxpayers’ money has
gone towards bailing it out.
Provided that the value is
right, if the government
writes off the value, I can
manage it and the government
can have a share in it. The
intentions of PKFZ are good,
but how to implement it in a
more efficient and effective
way? The idea of making
an industry within the free
trade zone has been done in
Malaysia for many years, but
the question is where is your
cost? Is it in real estate or is it
in trade? Unfortunately this
whole thing is a real estate
ploy to make gains by being a
contractor and all that. But of
course, with PKFZ, if the cost
is too prohibitive, people will
not come if you charge them
based on your high cost (of
operations) and your trading
margin is very small. That
allows a lot of turnover. But
I think I can manage it if you
have a net worth of people
who can do it. The government
must be open minded, they
If they don’t must write off their losses.
want to go Then they can move on.
through the
But what about the RM4.6
states due to billion of our money?
political The state will not be doing a
affiliations, bailout! Later on, if managed
I am not well, the value of PKFZ will be
higher and we will own it.
worried, but
if they don’t There are high hopes of a
want to invest rehabilitation of the PKFZ
in the people with Klang Port Authority
of these GM Datin Paduka O.C.
Phang’s contract not
states ... they being renewed and the
are shooting appointments of Datuk
themselves Ong Tee Keat and Datuk
in the foot. Lee Hwa Beng as Transport
Minister and port authority
Lower growth chairman respectively.
in Selangor We know that and I can sit
means lower down with them and speak to
growth in them on a business-to-business
Malaysia.” platform. Our idea is that
you must be able to manage
it, that’s all; not a political
upmanship. It is in the state of
Selangor. If it is prosperous,
the state will prosper, so it
is in my interest and I have
also to provide infrastructure
connecting to PKFZ. Initially
people were talking about the
politics of it, but that’s human
nature. At the end of the day
you have over RM4 billion
invested, and how do you want
to make it happen?
We know you are not giving
up your parliamentary
seat in Bandar Tun Razak
for Datuk Seri Anwar
Ibrahim. But don’t you
15
think you are way over your
head taking on all these
responsibilities? Is it good
for the people?
We have a mentri besar’s office
in Ijok (his state seat). They
(Khir Toyo’s administration
which set it up during the Ijok
by-election) didn’t use it. Now I
use it. It is fully utilised! (laughs)
Bandar Tun Razak is a
question of getting the Datuk
Bandar to work efficiently with
the 10 opposition members of
parliament, that’s all.
Do you know that Selangor
has vacancies for two advisory
board members in DBKL? Now
the Datuk Bandar knows who
he is dealing with.
Give me a few months so I
can stabilise the whole thing. I
think I can cope. The question
is you must have the support of
and quality people who work
with you. Like a CEO, once you
get the best lieutenants around
you, it is plain-sailing. It just
takes a bit of time.
So you have capable people
to delegate duties to?
Yes, many. This is the
challenge of a lifetime. I had
that experience when I was
about 32 or 33 years old at
PNB. I enjoyed it. Now if I can
get three or four people of that
nature, they move everywhere.
And they must have the right
spirit of doing things.
Fortunately Selangor is not
a troubled state. It is like if you
are going into a company that
has problems, then you have a
nightmare. Here you just need
to refine and fine-tune it, and it
will run well.