Ron Waters Transcripts

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IN THE COURT OF COMMON PLEAS
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FIRST JUDICIAL DISTRICT OF PENNSYLVANIA
TRIAL DIVISION
3 APPEARANCES:
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IN RE:
: TESTIMONY OF
5 ANDREW NOTARISTEFANO, ESQUIRE
Assistant District Attorney
COUNTY INVESTIGATING : STATE REPRESENTATIVE
6 For the Commonwealth
GRAND JURY XXVII
:
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C-21
:
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MISC. NO. 0000526-2014 :
9 ALSO PRESENT:
10 BRAD BENDER, ESQUIRE
--11 MARK GILSON, ESQUIRE
December 5, 2015
12 FORTUNATO PERRI, ESQUIRE
Grand Jury Room
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
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TESTIMONY
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5 NO.
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--EXHIBITS
--DESCRIPTION PAGE
(No exhibits marked.)
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MR. NOTARISTEFANO: Do we have a

Quorum?
GRAND JUROR: Yes, we do.
MR. NOTARISTEFANO: It is December 5,
2014. The time is 11:21 a.m. We are here
with State Representative Ron Waters as well
as his attorney, Fred Perri.
Mr. Waters, you have been previously
sworn by the Supervising Grand Jury Judge,
Diana Anhalt; is that correct?
STATE REPRESENTATIVE WATERS: Yes.
MR. NOTARISTEFANO: Do you understand
all of your rights and responsibilities and
the oath that you took?
MR. NOTARISTEFANO: Do you understand
that you have a right to an attorney, and, of
course, you have one sitting before you?
MR. NOTARISTEFANO: And you
understand that your obligation is to tell
the truth that you are under oath here today?
MR. NOTARISTEFANO: And if you feel
as though you have a legal basis not to
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answer any questions, that you may tell me to

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stop and that I will stop and you can go out
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in the hallway and speak to Mr. Perri in
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confidence and then come back in here; you
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understand that?
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STATE REPRESENTATIVE WATERS: Yes.6
MR. NOTARISTEFANO: Mr. Waters, are 7
you willing to answer my questions here
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today?
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BY MR. NOTARISTEFANO:
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Q Mr. Waters, before I get into any specific
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questions about why we are here today, I want you to
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tell the members of jury about yourself. I want to
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tell them your background, your job when you were
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first elected. We obviously know that you are a
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State Representative, the district that you
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represent. Where you worked previously before you
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became a State Representative.
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Let me start first, were you born and
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raised in Philadelphia?
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A Yes.
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Q What neighborhood?
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A I was born in Elmwood and moved to North
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Philly. I lived in the Johnson Homes. Then moved
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community with the drill team. I had formed my own

drill team to help bring children into a safe
environment and teach them life skills. And then I
got involved working with the person who used to the
be the State Representative, Anthony Williams. I
worked with him and his dad with the Community
Outreach Program that we have. There was crime in
our neighborhood and they was recruiting people to
help to combat this -- to get the men to stand up
and fight this. As a result of that and the work I
was doing there with the drill team and working with
those guys, I was the one that everyone said would
be a good replacement, the successor for the
previous State Rep.
Q So you get elected in 1999?
A Yes.
Q These are two-year terms?
A Yes.
Q House Representative for Pennsylvania
General Assembly, right?
A Yes.
Q How many times have you been reelected?
A I am going to say my first election was a
special election, which was in May of '99. I had to
run the next year. We run every even number year
to West Philadelphia at 61st and Chestnut.

Q Please keep your voice up so that everyone
can hear you.
What kind of jobs did you have before
you become a State Rep?
A All kinds of jobs. As a teenager, working
for a place that made Christmas decorations. I
delivered the newspaper as a teenager where I almost
lost my life as a paperboy being robbed. I worked
at -- I went to -- I use to be a taxi cab driver. I
went to training to become an auto body repair
person. I went to training as the manpower of a
government program to learn how to have auto repair
skills. I did that for most of my younger life.
And then later on I got an opportunity to work at
the Philadelphia Parking Authority. I worked there
from 1986 until 1999. In 1999, I was elected to the
State House to the present day.
Q How did you get into politics? How did
you get elected? What drew you there and how did
you get in?
A I always look at it like I was kind of
like drafted to come into there. I was working at
the Parking Authority and I was gainfully employed
there and outside of that I was doing work in the
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for office. So it would be -Q 2000, 2002 -A So, I guess I got it eight times.
Q And you were just recently reelected?
A Yes.
Q As you are sit here today, you are a
serving member of the State House of
Representatives, right?
A Yes.
Q What district do you represent?
A 191 located out in West Philly, Southwest
Philly, and Yeadon Borough, Delaware County. And
now I have some of Yeadon and Darby Borough.
Q Has this always been the district that you
represented?
A Yes.
Q What you are telling us is that the border
changed recently?
A Yes.
Q Other than that change, were there any
other neighborhoods that you represented before the
recent change with Yeadon Borough?
A No.
Q Mr. Waters, I want to get into the facts
of this case.
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You and I have discussed the facts of

this case; is that correct?
A Yes.
Q And we have gone over the things that were
recorded with your dealings with Mr. Tyron Ali,
correct?
A Yes.
Q And you dealt with Mr. Ali from 2010 to
2012?
A Yes.
Q You are aware that there were
approximately a dozen recordings, that Mr. Ali, when
he met with you, that he was wearing a recording
device and that you were caught on tape, so to
speak, approximately a dozen times?
A Yes.
Q You are also aware that you accepted cash
payments from Mr. Ali, right?
A Yes.
Q You are aware that you personally accepted
nine cash payments from Mr. Ali totaling $8,750,
right?
A Yes.
Q And that is true, correct?
A Yes.
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Q And was there something about his dress or

his persona that led you to believe that he did have
these resources and that he could be helpful to you?
A Yes.
Q Tell us about that.
A He was dressed very nice. He had a very
nice suit on. Based on my way -- the way I thought,
it was a very nice expensive suit, nice shoes. He
had -- everything about him looked like he had
money.
Q The cash payments that he made to you, how
would he give them to you?
A In an envelope.
Q What kind of envelope?
A It was an envelope like you get from the
bank.
Q The cash payments, did they occur at a
restaurant called Raspberries in Harrisburg?
A Yes.
Q And some occurred either inside or near
your car, right?
A Yes.
Q There were payments inside your district
office in Philadelphia, right?
A Yes.
Q You are also aware that on your behalf -maybe that is a bad phrase.
You are aware for one of your
birthday parties, Mr. Ali gave $400 to Leslie
McGirth, who was organizing your birthday party, and
that paid for the Michael Jackson impersonator at
the door for that birthday party, right?
A Yes.
Q Mr. Waters, when Mr. Ali first met you, he
met you in your office in Philadelphia, correct?
A Yes.
Q And you aware that he introduced himself
as a lobbyist and said he wanted to gauge any
interest in your area and see if that -- he wanted
to gauge your interest and whether or not you would
help him, right?
A Yes.
Q What do you remember from that meeting of
what he talked to you about with respect to what he
could do for you?
A He said that he had connections or people
who he was working on behalf of and that they could
be very helpful and that he could be very helpful
through his connections. He could be very helpful
through his connections to me.
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Q And once at a birthday party?

A Yes.
Q You also remember him giving you cigars at
your birthday party?
A Yes.
Q Mr. Waters, Mr. Ali would discuss with you
certain issues that were beneficial to his
clients -- now you know them to be fictitious
clients -- but at the time you believed them to be
real clients that he was a real lobbyist for?
A Yes.
Q Some of those issues being privatization
of liquor stores, Marcellus Shale issue, the voter
identification bill, as well as trying to obtain a
collections contract with the Parking Authority,
right?
A Yes.
Q You did, in fact, set up a meeting to
facilitate an introduction for Mr. Ali with the
Executive Director of the Philadelphia Parking
Authority, who was Vince Fenerty, right?
A Yes.
Q Did you have a relationship with
Mr. Fenerty?
A Yes.
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Q How far back did you and Mr. Fenerty go?

A My entire time working for the Parking
Authority.
Q A long time?
A A long time.
Q Did you have a good relationship with
Mr. Fenerty?
A I had a good relationship. He was not
always executive director when I knew him then. As
a matter of fact, he wasn't executive director
during any of the time I was working there and he
was working there.
Q Prior to setting up that meeting with
Mr. Fenerty, you had accepted numerous cash payments
from Mr. Ali, correct?
A Yes.
Q When Mr. Ali made these cash payments to
you, he was acting as a lobbyist talking about
certain issues?
A Yes.
Q Mr. Waters, do you remember how that
conversation came up about the Parking Authority
with Mr. Ali?
A He talked about his ability to have a
positive impact on the collections of outstanding
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Authority?
A Yes.
Q Tell us what you remember from that
meeting and what happened.
A I remember Vince calling his staff into
the meeting. For some reason something I guess he
picked up that he needed to have other people there
present while he discussed the possibility of his
new process, I don't know what you call it, that Ali
wanted to share with him, new collection process and
how it would be more helpful in their ability to
make the collections. It would increase -- not the
profits, but the collections.
Q What was Mr. Fenerty's reaction to this?
A He acted kind of -- he listened. But he
accounted kind of nonchalant and he -- he didn't -he agreed not to do it.
Q Do you remember him attending one of your
birthday parties?
A Mr. Ali?
Q Yes.
A Yes.
Q And that was after the meeting with
Mr. Fenerty; is that correct?
A I can't say the time when that happened,
debt owed to the Parking Authority, City, School

District, that is how that rolls out.
Q Can you elaborate a little more about what
you remember from when he brought up the Parking
Authority?
A He said that he knew -- he was aware that
there was outstanding debt, and to my knowledge he
even had some figures that he had given me about
this outstanding debt, and that this new process or
procedure that the company could provide would help
to collect that money, which I thought would be good
for the Parking Authority.
Q So what did you do?
A I called Vince Fenerty, who is now the
Executive Director, and asked if he is interested in
a meeting to hear about this new option.
Q What happened?
A And Vince Fenerty agreed to meet him.
Q Did you go with him to the Parking
Authority and accompany Mr. Ali in that meeting?
A I did go to the meeting.
Q Did you introduce Mr. Fenerty to Mr. Ali?
A Yes.
Q Did Mr. Ali talk about his proposal to try
and obtain a collections contract with the Parking
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but I know I had a birthday and I know we did have a

meeting. I just don't remember the sequences.
Q Mr. Waters, do you remember thanking
Mr. Ali for the money every time he gave you a cash
payment?
A I did thank him.
Q Did Mr. Ali discuss any pending
legislation with you?
A Yes.
Q What pending legislation?
A He talked about the voter ID. He talked
about liquor privatization. And he talked about
Marcellus Shale. And I don't know if he talked
about anything else. But I remember him talking
about those three particularly.
Q Let's go through them briefly. We will
spend a little more time on one of them.
Marcellus Shale, is that an issue
that was pressing to the citizens of Philadelphia?
A No, not at all.
Q The liquor privatization, was that an
issue that was pressing?
A It was a conversation we had and it was
pending legislation.
Q Did the two of you have several
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conversations about proposed legislation about

liquor privatization?
A Yes.
Q And we had talked about this previously,
right?
A Yes.
Q You were concerned about union jobs,
right?
A Well, it is a union -- the union
represents the workers at the state stores, yes.
Q And that was something that was on your
mind because you were a former union person
yourself, right?
A Yes.
Q Let's talk about the voter identification
bill. What was your position on that bill?
A My position was "no."
Q Was it always "no"?
A Always "no."
Q Mr. Ali gave you $2,000 to vote "no" on
that bill, correct?
A Yes.
Q You accepted that money?
A Yes.
Q You didn't tell him, "I am voting 'no' on
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it anyway. You can keep your money," right?

A No.
Q Do you remember Mr. Ali asking you for a
personal favor about a job?
A Yes.
Q What did he ask you?
A He asked me if how long I knew the
sheriff. I did know the sheriff from working. The
sheriff use to be a State Representative. So before
he became sheriff we had established, you know, a
working relationship. As a matter of fact, he was a
close friend at one time.
Q Can you tell us the name of the sheriff
that you are referring to?
A Jewel Williams.
Q So tell us about that conversation with
Mr. Ali about the sheriff.
A He told me that he was in need of a job
for someone at the sheriff's office and he wanted to
know if I could talk to the sheriff about this
person obtaining a job there. I told him -- I
remember saying that I don't know much about those
jobs there. I said that I know Jewel. I just told
him I will talk to him.
Q And you took money from him on that day,
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right?
A Yes.
Q And he said to you that was a down payment
on that, that he was giving you money to contact
Jewel for the individual that was close to him,
right?
A Right.
Q And you didn't decline his money; you took
it?
A I took it.
Q That happened in your office?
A Yes.
Q And all these cash payments, you never
reported them, correct?
A No.
Q You didn't report them on a financial
disclosure form, right?
A No.
Q A statement of financial interest?
A No.
Q Or any campaign forms, correct?
A No.
Q You're aware that you were required to
report them, right?
A Yes.
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Q You're aware that you're required to

disclose them, right?
A Yes.
Q Nonetheless, you did not do any of that,
right?
A No, I did not.
Q Mr. Waters, why not?
A I just didn't do it. It is -- I should
have done it. I wish I would have done it, but I
didn't. I just didn't do it.
Q Mr. Waters, a couple of questions I should
have asked earlier. Did you receive any ethics
training when you became a State Representative?
A Yes.
Q Can you tell us a little bit about that
ethics training and can you tell us if you have to
periodically undergo training again?
A You do.
Q Tell us about it.
A I can't say exactly how often, but we do
have a requirement that we are brought up-to-date
about the ethic laws and any changes to the ethics
law and we go through that training. I believe it
is maybe every two years during a term.
Q During that training, do they tell you
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about requirements about reporting any kind of

financial assistance that is given to you as a State
Rep?
A There are guidelines. Yes, there are
guidelines.
Q Mr. Waters, what is your salary?
A It has just changed because of the cost of
living. It is now $85,000, a little over $85,000.
Q Is there a per diem on top of that?
A We get per diems when we come to the
Capitol.
Q What is the per diem and how much?
A That has changed a lot too. Right now, it
is up to $172 for each per diem day. Normally, it
is for when you go to a session or a committee
meeting and then you travel over 50 miles is the
threshold to this meeting and stay overnight. So it
is just taking care of the cost of any expenses that
you incur as a result of coming up to Harrisburg or
going to another place where we have to travel 50
miles for and stay at places.
Q Mr. Waters, I just want to touch on a
couple things about your relationship with Mr. Tyron
Ali.
When he first met you, he told you
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evidence that has been presented and that you have

just admitted to, you are still willing to testify
here and you just have testified here, right?
A Yes.
Q In fact, you signed a cooperation
agreement with the Commonwealth, the District
Attorney's Office, this morning; is that correct?
A Yes.
Q Even though there are no charges yet, you
have already agreed to accept responsibility for
what you did, right?
A That is correct.
Q You have agreed to waive your preliminary
hearing, right?
A That is correct.
Q In the event that they return an
indictment, you've agreed to waive your preliminary
hearing, right?
A That is correct.
Q You've agreed to plead guilty at the very
first opportunity, right?
A That is correct.
Q To certain charges, right?
A That is correct.
Q And you've agreed to cooperate fully?
that he was a lobbyist, that he had gotten his

lobbing license back, and he told you that he had
certain clients that he was working for and that he
wanted to talk to you about certain issues, and that
throughout these meetings, whether it be at dinner,
on the phone, or in your office, or anywhere else,
he would talk to you about issues that were
important to his clients, which you know now are
fictitious clients; is that correct?
A Yes.
Q And when he made cash payments to you, he
told you that it was because he wanted to have a
working relationship with you about these issues to
benefit his clients, and, in fact, some of the
payments were made for specific things; is that
right?
A Yes.
Q You are sitting here testifying in front
of a Grand Jury this morning even though there are
no charges formally lodged against you at this
moment today; is that correct?
A That is correct.
Q So even though there are no charges, in
the event that this Grand Jury does return an
indictment against you with respect to certain
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A That is correct.
Q You've agreed to pay restitution in the
amount of $9,150, which includes the $8,750 that was
paid directly to you as well as $400 that was paid
to Ms. McGirth for the Michael Jackson impersonator,
right?
A That is correct.
Q You've also agreed to pay the cost of
prosecution, right?
A That is correct.
Q Now, as you testify here today, you have
no idea what your sentence could be?
A I do not.
Q You don't even know who the judge is yet?
A I don't.
Q Or if there would be a judge?
A I don't.
Q What you do know is that under the terms
of your cooperation agreement, the judge could
sentence you up to 45 years in prison?
A Yes.
Q And the judge could sentence you to no
prison?
A Yes.
Q That would be up to the discretion of the
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judge, right?
A That is correct.
Q Mr. Waters, I want to give you the
opportunity now to talk about why you did this, what
you were thinking, and how you feel about it sitting
here today?
A I accepted these cash advances or gifts
from Mr. Ali. I shouldn't have accepted them. I
take full responsibility for accepting these gifts
and I should have put them down on my financial
report or should not have accepted them at all. I
accept that. I know I made a mistake. I should not
have accepted them. I say that again and again and
again. I have beat myself over the head from time
to time and asked myself why I exposed myself to
this. I will -- I regret it. I regret it. I
regret taking it -- not taking it, but accepting it.
As a legislator, I should know better. I've been
trained better. I -- you know, I just made a
mistake. I just wish I hadn't. I wish I could go
back. I don't know what I could have been thinking
about to tell you the truth. I don't know what I
was thinking about when these meetings occurred.
That is not the kind of person I am. I've always
worked for my district. I've always worked real
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system that, in my opinion, in Pennsylvania worked

fine. It doesn't serve underaged children. It does
not serve visibly intoxicated people. It does not
stay open, like, after hours. These are reasons why
I was opposed to it.
On committees, I would talk about how
much of the tax obligation does the liquor stores
pay to the State and it came out that they pay 100
percent of their taxes owed to the State. I asked
the question, how much does the regular business pay
to the State. They said, well, an average of 90
percent of what they owe to the State. So, I
thought that was a net loss by doing that. I
thought it was a bad way to go.
In addition to the fact that there
are people who work at these stores that work real
hard in my opinion. I go there. I have frequented
those stores. I know how they serve me when I go
there in Pennsylvania. And I know how they act in
other states. I know the difference. I thought
these people work. They have families to take care
of. I have some neighbors of mine who work at the
state stores. I just was not in support of it.
On top of all that, in my opinion, it
was an effort which I have been seeing within many
hard for my district representing their interest and

something like this has never happened. It is just
recognizing what I did. I allowed myself to be
exposed and I regret it.
Q Mr. Waters, I have a couple extra
questions.
We had talked about liquor
privatization and that was something that Ali
claimed that his client was interested in, right?
A Yes.
Q And you had multiple conversations about
the privatization of liquor stores, right?
A Yes.
Q I also brought up the fact that you had a
past history of being in a union and that you had
certain position about liquor privatization because
it could affect union jobs, right?
A Well -Q Maybe I didn't -- we talked about it this
morning, whether it was in front of the Grand Jury
or not.
Why don't you just elaborate on what
I just said?
A It was a lot of reasons why I was opposed
to it. I just didn't see where we would take a
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states to go after unions and to dismantle unions.

So that was another reason why I was opposed to it.
So there was a series of reasons why
I was opposed to it.
Q Thanks for the explanation.
I think more of what I was getting
into was there was actually -- was the union issue,
that you were afraid that the privatization would
result in loss of jobs for union employees, right?
A Well, they are union employees, yes.
Q Okay. One union that was really
interested or maybe that you were concerned about, I
don't want to put the words in your mouth, was Local
1776?
A That is correct.
Q Does that ring a bell?
A Yes.
Q Wendell Young, do you know him?
A Yes.
Q Who is that?
A He is one of the union leaders.
Q Is he a union leader of 1776?
A I believe that is the union, yes.
Q The question is, did you ever talk to
Mr. Young on behalf of Ali with respect to liquor
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A Did I talk to Wendell Young and Ali
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together?
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Q No. Did you talk to Wendell Young on
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A No.
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Q The other question I have is, did you ever
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talk to either Vanessa Brown or Louise Bishop -- by
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the way, you know who they are?
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A Yes.
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Q Two other State Representatives?
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A Yes.
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Q Did you ever talk to either one of them
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about taking money from Tyron Ali?
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A No.
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MR. NOTARISTEFANO: Mr. Waters, I am16
going to ask you and your attorney,
17
Mr. Perri, to step outside the courtroom and
18
we are going to ask the jurors if they have
19
any questions for you.
20
--21
(Whereupon, State Representative
22
Waters and his attorney exited the Grand
23
Jury Room.)
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--25
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GRAND JUROR: I want to know besides 1

Tyron Ali, did he do this in the past.
2
GRAND JUROR: How did he come to
3
trust him? Did he know him?
4
GRAND JUROR: Did they ever research
5
his lobbying company?
6
GRAND JUROR: Where did he come from? 7
Where did he pop up from?
8
GRAND JUROR: Did he meet him when he 9
started doing the tapes?
10
MR. NOTARISTEFANO: I will ask him
11
specifically.
12
GRAND JUROR: After all this is said
13
and done, are Ali's charges going to be
14
dropped?
15
MR. NOTARISTEFANO: Yes. That
16
happened two years ago.
17
--18
(Whereupon, State Representative
19
Waters and his attorney entered the Grand
20
Jury Room.)
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--22
MR. NOTARISTEFANO: For the record, 23
we are back with Mr. Waters and his attorney,
24
Mr. Perri. It is 12:02 p.m.
25
30
GRAND JUROR: When and how long had
he known Mr. Ali? How did he meet him? And
how long has he known him?
GRAND JUROR: Before he talked to
Ali, did anybody influence him to start
collections, to take money?
MR. NOTARISTEFANO: I think those are
two different things. Before he talked to
Tyron Ali, did anybody influence him to start
a collections contract? I think you are
talking about two different things.
You mean just taking money?
GRAND JUROR: Yes.
MR. NOTARISTEFANO: So before Mr. Ali
started giving him money, did anyone
influence him to take money from a lobbyist
or Mr. Ali or how do you want me to ask it?
GRAND JUROR: From a lobbyist.
GRAND JUROR: Has he ever dealt with
other lobbyists before that?
GRAND JUROR: Everyone keeps saying
that Ali came to him saying he could do this
and that for them. Exactly what did he tell
them he would do for them besides give him
money?
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Q The members of the jury basically have
three lines of questioning for you. I will start
off with the first line of questioning that has to
deal with Mr. Ali.
The first thing, I will ask you about
your relationship with Mr. Ali.
How did you meet Mr. Ali?
A Mr. Ali was brought to my attention
through my oldest daughter, Monica. She is the one
who informed me -- she is in the day care business.
She has been in the day care business for a long
time. She had informed me he was trying to meet
with me, but he couldn't meet with me. I believe
she and I were on the phone talking -- my
recollection is not as good as it used to be. I am
sorry. But I remember some way Ali presented
himself at my office and his name was mentioned, He
is here. She said to me, That is the guy that I was
telling you about. She said, He is trying to have a
meeting with you. So I said, Okay. So based on
what I had been told that he was trying to meet with
me but he couldn't get a meeting with me, my
daughter was saying that she knew him, so I
decided --
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MR. PERRI: Could we just take a

break?
MR. NOTARISTEFANO: Sure.
--(Whereupon, State Representative
Jury Room.)
--(Pause.)
Jury Room.)
--MR. NOTARISTEFANO: Okay. We are
back with Mr. Waters and Mr. Perri and it is
12:07 p.m.
Q Mr. Waters, you had just told us about how
your daughter, Monica, made the introduction to you
with respect to Mr. Ali. Just a couple of
follow-ups about that.
What understanding, if any, did you
have as to what Monica's relationship with Mr. Ali
was? You touched on it a little by saying she had a
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legislator, maybe I could help give him some

direction into how he could acquire a liquor
license. Now, that -- he never talked to me about
the liquor license to my knowledge, but that is what
she said she talked to him about. At least that is
what he said why he wanted to meet me.
Q Did you know of or have you seen Mr. Ali
before that first meeting that you talked about?
A Probably in the circles. I go to a lot of
events and I might have seen him at some events.
Q Did you ever research his company or his
lobbying firm or who he said he was working for?
A No, I did not.
Q How did you come to trust Mr. Ali?
A Through the conversations we had. If I
remember, he presented himself to me was that he was
willing to be helpful. He wanted to be helpful. He
had some great connections with people who had lots
of money and he wanted to be helpful.
Q That actually segueways into the next
question that the members of the jury had, which
was, what did Mr. Ali tell you he could do for you
other than give you money?
A He never mentioned anything else. He
never said anything other than the fact that these
day care. Can you elaborate, please?

A Mr. Ali had a day care or was running a
day care. In some way he was connected to a day
care. He talked to her about maybe building his day
care by buying up other day cares, including her day
care. That was some conversation they were having.
This is what I was told. I was not at that
conversation. This is what I was told.
Q When you say, This is what I was told, was
that what you were told at the time you met Mr. Ali
or since then?
A Umm, I can't say.
Q I guess when you first met Mr. Ali, what
was your understanding as to who he was and what his
relationship with Monica was and why you agreed to
meet with him the first time you met with him?
Do you see what I am getting at?
A Yes. Pretty much, because of the fact
that it was my daughter. That is all I needed for
me. He said he could not meet with me according to
what he told her. So he went -- he met -- he knew
her through the day care business. And now he told
her, this is what he told her. According to what my
daughter said, that he was interested in acquiring a
liquor license, and by my job or my position as a
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resources were at his disposal. He never said

anything other than that.
Q We went over the actual payments that he
made to you; resources, in general, could be
something broad.
So when you say -- and he did tell
you the resources he had available to you, that he
could be helpful to you, what did you take that to
mean and did you believe him and believe that he
could help you in the way or ways that you are going
to tell us now?
A Yes. Because he gave me something that
made it kind of substantiate his claim that he could
be helpful.
Q I asked you a compound question. It
wasn't fair on my part. I asked you two questions
in one. Let me ask you the first part a little bit
more specifically.
When he said that he had resources to
help you, other than just giving you money under the
table, so to speak, which is what happened here,
what did you understand the resources to mean that
he could help you with? In what way could he help
you other than just giving you money under the
table?
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A That was the only understanding I had,

that it would be financial help.
Q The third line of questioning that the
jurors have for you was, have you ever dealt with
other lobbyists before?
A Yes.
Q Have you taken money from other lobbyists
before that you have not reported?
A No.
before in exchange for a favor, whether it would be
personal or professional?
A No.
before where there was a potential conflict of
interest? In other words, they were asking you to
help out something that you might have had a
personal attachment to and they were giving you
money where you may be in a particular conflict?
A No.
MR. NOTARISTEFANO: Okay. Mr.
Waters, would you please step outside again?
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--MR. NOTARISTEFANO: We are back on

the record with Mr. Waters. It is 12:17 p.m.
Q Mr. Waters, the question now is, have you
ever taken money from a lobbyist in the past that
you have reported?
A I've taken checks from lobbyists in the
past at an event. As an elected official, you have
fundraisers. You need to raise funds and I reported
those checks. It was always made out to my PAC,
those checks.
Now, the only other time that
lobbyists have given me support is in regard to an
outreach event I had where they made the check
payable to POTS -- what you call those mobile POTS
people have. If I have an event for senior citizens
and there is a check made out to the people who are
actually the sponsor of the event, I've asked
lobbyists if they can support it and they've made
checks out payable to them. Every check made
payable to me went to my PAC. Those other checks,
other than that, were made payable to the Committee
to Elect Ron Waters, and I turn those over to my
PAC. Those are direct payments that were from
Jury Room.)
--MR. NOTARISTEFANO: Does anybody have
any additional questions?
GRAND JUROR: He is saying he has
never taken money from a lobbyist previously,
or if he has taken money from a lobbyist, has
he ever completed a financial disclosure?
MR. NOTARISTEFANO: What I asked him
was have you ever taken money from a lobbyist
that you did not report; and he said, no.
GRAND JUROR: So if he has taken it,
has he reported it?
MR. NOTARISTEFANO: I can ask him.
GRAND JUROR: I just want to know.
MR. NOTARISTEFANO: Do you want me to
ask him has he taken money from a lobbyist he
has in the past reported?
GRAND JUROR: Yes, and, if so, then
why not this time?
MR. NOTARISTEFANO: I'll ask him.
Jury Room.)
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lobbyists from my fundraising events. That is the

full extent of any money I got from a lobbyist that
was made out directly to me, if that helps answer
that question.
MR. NOTARISTEFANO: That answers that
question. Thank you.
The Madam Secretary is going to
advise you at this time.
GRAND JUROR: Representative Waters,
you are hereby notified that your subpoena is
a continuing one. That means should the Jury
desire further evidence and/or testimony from
you, you will be notified to appear before
the Grand Jury by mail, phone, or through
your attorney if you have one at that time.
Do you understand?
--(Testimony concluded.)
---
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CERTIFICATION
I hereby certify that the
proceedings and evidence are contained fully and
accurately in the notes taken by me on the trial of
the above cause, and this copy is a correct
transcript of the same.
Christine Staranowicz
Official Court Reporter
(The foregoing certification of

this transcript does not apply to any reproduction
of the same by any means unless under the direct
control and/or supervision of the certifying
reporter.)
afraid [1] 28/8

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citizens [2] 16/19 39/17
delivered [1] 6/8
even [6] 7/25 14/8 22/19 22/23 23/9 24/14
City [1] 14/1
DESCRIPTION [1] 3/5
event [6] 22/24 23/16 39/9 39/15 39/17 39/19
claim [1] 36/13
desire [1] 40/12
events [3] 35/10 35/10 40/1
claimed [1] 26/9
device [1] 9/14
ever [10] 28/24 29/7 29/13 30/19 31/5 35/11
client [1] 26/9
Diana [1] 4/10
37/4 38/8 38/10 39/6
clients [7] 12/8 12/9 12/10 22/3 22/8 22/9
did [57]
every [4] 7/25 16/4 20/24 39/21
22/14
didn't [9] 15/16 17/25 19/8 19/16 20/8 20/10 everyone [3] 6/2 7/12 30/21
close [2] 18/12 19/5
20/10 26/19 26/25
everything [1] 11/9
collect [1] 14/11
diem [3] 21/9 21/12 21/14
evidence [3] 23/1 40/12 41/4
collection [1] 15/10
diems [1] 21/10
exactly [2] 20/20 30/23
collections [7] 12/15 13/25 14/25 15/12 15/13 difference [1] 27/20
exchange [1] 37/11
30/6 30/10
different [2] 30/8 30/11
executive [4] 12/20 13/9 13/10 14/15
combat [1] 7/9
dinner [1] 22/5
exhibits [2] 3/3 3/6
come [6] 5/4 6/23 21/10 31/3 31/7 35/14
direct [2] 39/25 41/21
exited [3] 29/23 33/6 37/25
coming [1] 21/19
direction [1] 35/2
expenses [1] 21/18
committee [2] 21/15 39/23
directly [2] 24/4 40/3
expensive [1] 11/8
committees [1] 27/6
director [4] 12/20 13/9 13/10 14/15
explanation [1] 28/5
COMMON [1] 1/2
disclose [1] 20/2
exposed [2] 25/15 26/4
Commonwealth [2] 2/6 23/6
disclosure [2] 19/17 38/8
extent [1] 40/2
community [2] 7/1 7/6
discretion [1] 24/25
extra [1] 26/5
company [3] 14/10 31/6 35/11
discuss [2] 12/6 16/7
F
completed [1] 38/8
discussed [2] 9/1 15/8
compound [1] 36/15
dismantle [1] 28/1
facilitate [1] 12/19
concerned [2] 17/7 28/12
disposal [1] 36/1
fact [9] 12/18 13/10 18/11 22/14 23/5 26/14
concluded [1] 40/19
district [10] 1/2 2/5 5/17 8/10 8/14 11/23
27/15 34/18 35/25
confidence [1] 5/4
14/2 23/6 25/25 26/1
facts [2] 8/24 9/1
conflict [2] 37/15 37/19
DIVISION [1] 1/3
fair [1] 36/16
connected [1] 34/3
do [30] 4/1 4/3 4/12 4/16 8/10 10/18 10/20
families [1] 27/21
connections [4] 10/21 10/24 10/25 35/18
13/21 14/13 15/17 15/18 16/3 18/3 20/4 20/8 far [1] 13/1
contact [1] 19/4
20/10 20/18 20/20 20/25 24/13 24/18 28/18
favor [2] 18/4 37/11
contained [1] 41/4
30/17 30/22 30/24 31/2 34/17 35/22 38/16
feel [2] 4/24 25/5
continuing [1] 40/11
40/16
Fenerty [9] 12/21 12/24 13/1 13/7 13/14
contract [3] 12/15 14/25 30/10
does [8] 22/24 27/2 27/3 27/7 27/10 28/16
14/14 14/18 14/22 15/24
control [1] 41/22
38/3 41/20
Fenerty's [1] 15/14
conversation [5] 13/22 16/23 18/16 34/6 34/8 doesn't [1] 27/2
fictitious [2] 12/8 22/9
conversations [3] 17/1 26/11 35/15
doing [4] 6/25 7/11 27/13 31/10
fight [1] 7/10
cooperate [1] 23/25
don't [11] 15/9 16/2 16/13 18/22 24/14 24/15 figures [1] 14/8
cooperation [2] 23/5 24/19
24/17 25/21 25/22 26/22 28/13
financial [6] 19/16 19/19 21/2 25/10 37/2
copy [1] 41/6
done [3] 20/9 20/9 31/14
38/8
correct [25] 4/10 9/2 9/6 9/24 10/10 13/15
door [1] 10/7
fine [1] 27/2
15/24 17/21 19/14 19/21 22/9 22/21 22/22
down [2] 19/3 25/10
firm [1] 35/12
23/7 23/12 23/15 23/19 23/22 23/24 24/1
dozen [2] 9/12 9/15
first [13] 1/2 5/16 5/20 7/23 10/9 21/25 23/21
24/7 24/10 25/2 28/15 41/6
drafted [1] 6/23
32/4 32/6 34/13 34/16 35/8 36/17
cost [3] 21/7 21/18 24/8
dress [1] 11/1
follow [1] 33/22
could [25] 10/20 10/22 10/23 10/24 11/3
dressed [1] 11/6
follow-ups [1] 33/22
14/10 18/20 24/12 24/19 24/22 25/20 25/21
drew [1] 6/20
foregoing [1] 41/19
26/17 30/22 33/1 34/20 35/1 35/2 35/22 36/4 drill [3] 7/1 7/2 7/11
form [1] 19/17
36/8 36/10 36/13 36/23 36/23
driver [1] 6/10
formally [1] 22/20
couldn't [2] 32/14 32/23
dropped [1] 31/15
formed [1] 7/1
COUNTY [2] 1/6 8/12
during [3] 13/11 20/24 20/25
former [1] 17/12
couple [4] 20/11 21/23 26/5 33/21
forms [1] 19/21
E
course [1] 4/18
FORTUNATO [1] 2/12
each [1] 21/14
COURT [2] 1/2 41/16
Fred [1] 4/7
earlier [1] 20/12
courtroom [1] 29/18
frequented [1] 27/17
crime [1] 7/7
F
friend [1] 18/12
front [2] 22/18 26/20
full [2] 25/9 40/2
fully [2] 23/25 41/4
fundraisers [1] 39/10
fundraising [1] 40/1
funds [1] 39/10
further [1] 40/12
G
gainfully [1] 6/24
gauge [2] 10/13 10/15
gave [4] 10/4 16/4 17/20 36/12
general [2] 7/20 36/4
get [10] 5/12 6/19 6/20 6/21 7/9 7/15 8/24
11/15 21/10 32/23
getting [2] 28/6 34/17
gifts [2] 25/7 25/9
GILSON [1] 2/11
give [5] 11/12 25/3 30/24 35/1 35/23
given [3] 14/8 21/2 39/14
giving [6] 12/3 19/4 30/15 36/20 36/24 37/18
go [13] 5/2 13/1 14/19 14/21 16/16 20/23
21/15 25/20 27/14 27/17 27/18 28/1 35/9
going [7] 7/23 21/20 29/17 29/19 31/14 36/10
40/7
gone [1] 9/4
good [5] 7/13 13/6 13/8 14/11 32/16
got [4] 6/15 7/4 8/3 40/2
gotten [1] 22/1
government [1] 6/13
GRAND [13] 1/7 1/12 4/9 22/19 22/24 26/20
29/23 31/20 33/6 33/12 37/25 38/24 40/14
great [1] 35/18
guess [3] 8/3 15/6 34/13
guidelines [2] 21/4 21/5
guilty [1] 23/20
guy [1] 32/19
guys [1] 7/12
H
had [35] 7/1 7/24 10/21 11/6 11/9 11/9 13/8
13/14 14/8 14/8 16/1 16/23 17/4 18/10 22/1
22/2 26/7 26/11 26/14 26/15 30/1 32/13
32/22 33/19 33/25 34/2 35/15 35/18 35/18
35/21 36/7 36/19 37/1 37/17 39/15
hadn't [1] 25/20
hallway [1] 5/3
happened [7] 14/17 15/4 15/25 19/11 26/2
31/17 36/21
hard [2] 26/1 27/17
Harrisburg [2] 11/18 21/19
has [16] 8/14 21/7 21/13 23/1 26/2 30/3
30/19 32/4 32/12 38/5 38/7 38/7 38/12 38/13
38/17 38/18
have [65]
having [1] 34/6
he [140]
head [1] 25/14
hear [2] 6/3 14/16
hearing [2] 23/14 23/18
help [11] 7/2 7/9 10/16 14/10 35/1 36/10
36/20 36/23 36/23 37/2 37/17
helpful [10] 10/23 10/23 10/24 11/3 15/11
35/17 35/17 35/19 36/8 36/14
helps [1] 40/3
her [6] 34/4 34/5 34/21 34/22 34/23 34/23
here [13] 4/5 4/22 5/4 5/8 5/13 8/6 22/18
23/3 23/3 24/11 25/6 32/19 36/21
hereby [2] 40/10 41/3
him [41] 7/6 10/16 11/9 12/3 13/9 14/18
14/19 15/10 15/18 16/6 16/14 17/25 18/21
18/24 18/24 18/25 19/5 28/18 30/2 30/3 30/5

30/9 30/15 30/16 30/22 30/24 31/4 31/4 31/9
31/11 32/24 34/16 34/16 35/1 35/5 35/10
36/9 38/9 38/14 38/17 38/21
himself [3] 10/12 32/18 35/16
his [31] 4/7 7/6 10/24 10/25 11/1 11/2 12/7
13/24 14/24 15/5 15/8 19/8 22/1 22/8 22/14
26/9 29/23 31/6 31/20 31/24 32/18 33/6
33/12 34/4 34/14 35/11 35/11 36/1 36/13
37/25 38/24
history [1] 26/15
Homes [1] 5/25
hours [1] 27/4
House [3] 6/18 7/19 8/7
how [27] 6/13 6/19 6/19 6/20 7/22 11/11 13/1
13/21 14/2 15/11 18/7 20/20 21/12 25/5 27/6
27/10 27/18 27/19 30/1 30/2 30/3 30/17 31/3
32/8 33/19 35/2 35/14
I
I'll [1] 38/21
I've [5] 25/18 25/24 25/25 39/8 39/19
ID [1] 16/11
idea [1] 24/12
identification [2] 12/14 17/15
impact [1] 13/25
impersonator [2] 10/6 24/5
important [1] 22/8
includes [1] 24/3
including [1] 34/5
increase [1] 15/12
incur [1] 21/19
indictment [2] 22/25 23/17
individual [1] 19/5
influence [3] 30/5 30/9 30/16
informed [2] 32/11 32/13
inside [2] 11/20 11/23
interest [5] 10/14 10/15 19/19 26/1 37/16
interested [4] 14/15 26/9 28/12 34/24
intoxicated [1] 27/3
introduce [1] 14/22
introduced [1] 10/12
introduction [2] 12/19 33/20
INVESTIGATING [1] 1/6
involved [1] 7/4
is [76]
issue [4] 12/13 16/18 16/22 28/7
issues [6] 12/7 12/12 13/19 22/4 22/7 22/13
it [69]
J
Jackson [2] 10/6 24/5
Jewel [3] 18/15 18/23 19/5
job [5] 5/15 18/4 18/18 18/21 34/25
jobs [6] 6/4 6/6 17/7 18/23 26/17 28/9
Johnson [1] 5/25
judge [6] 4/9 24/14 24/16 24/19 24/22 25/1
JUDICIAL [1] 1/2
jurors [2] 29/19 37/4
jury [17] 1/7 1/12 4/9 5/14 22/19 22/24 26/20
29/24 31/21 32/2 33/7 33/13 35/21 38/1
38/25 40/11 40/14
just [24] 8/4 16/2 18/23 20/8 20/10 21/7
21/18 21/22 23/2 23/3 25/19 25/20 26/2
26/22 26/23 26/25 27/23 30/12 33/1 33/19
33/21 36/20 36/24 38/15
K
keep [2] 6/2 18/1
keeps [1] 30/21
kind [8] 6/4 6/22 11/14 15/15 15/16 21/1
25/24 36/13
kind of [1] 15/15
kinds [1] 6/6
knew [5] 13/9 14/6 18/7 32/24 34/21

know [28] 5/16 12/8 15/9 16/1 16/1 16/13
18/8 18/10 18/20 18/22 18/23 22/8 24/14
24/18 25/12 25/18 25/19 25/21 25/22 27/18
27/19 27/20 28/18 29/9 31/1 31/4 35/7 38/15
knowledge [2] 14/7 35/4
known [2] 30/2 30/3
L
later [1] 6/15
law [1] 20/23
laws [1] 20/22
leader [1] 28/22
leaders [1] 28/21
learn [1] 6/13
least [1] 35/5
led [1] 11/2
legal [1] 4/25
legislation [4] 16/8 16/10 16/24 17/1
legislator [2] 25/18 35/1
Leslie [1] 10/4
Let [2] 5/20 36/17
Let's [2] 16/16 17/15
license [4] 22/2 34/25 35/3 35/4
life [3] 6/9 6/14 7/3
like [6] 6/22 6/23 11/9 11/15 26/2 27/4
line [2] 32/4 37/3
lines [1] 32/3
liquor [12] 12/13 16/12 16/21 17/2 26/7
26/12 26/16 27/7 28/25 34/25 35/2 35/4
listened [1] 15/15
little [6] 14/3 16/17 20/15 21/8 33/25 36/17
lived [1] 5/25
living [1] 21/8
lobbing [1] 22/2
lobbying [2] 31/6 35/12
lobbyist [12] 10/13 12/10 13/18 22/1 30/16
30/18 38/6 38/7 38/10 38/17 39/6 40/2
lobbyists [9] 30/20 37/5 37/7 37/10 37/14
39/8 39/14 39/20 40/1
Local [1] 28/13
located [1] 8/11
lodged [1] 22/20
long [6] 13/4 13/5 18/7 30/1 30/3 32/12
look [1] 6/22
looked [1] 11/9
loss [2] 27/13 28/9
lost [1] 6/9
lot [3] 21/13 26/24 35/9
lots [1] 35/18
Louise [1] 29/8
M
Madam [1] 40/7
made [17] 6/7 11/11 13/17 22/11 22/15 25/12
25/19 33/20 36/4 36/13 39/11 39/15 39/18
39/20 39/21 39/23 40/3
mail [1] 40/14
make [1] 15/12
manpower [1] 6/12
many [2] 7/22 27/25
Marcellus [3] 12/13 16/13 16/18
MARK [1] 2/11
marked [1] 3/6
matter [2] 13/10 18/11
may [3] 5/1 7/24 37/19
maybe [6] 10/2 20/24 26/19 28/12 34/4 35/1
McGirth [2] 10/5 24/5
me [27] 5/1 5/20 10/25 14/8 18/7 18/18 27/18
30/17 32/11 32/13 32/14 32/14 32/19 32/23
32/23 34/20 34/20 35/3 35/6 35/16 36/12
36/17 38/16 39/14 39/22 40/3 41/5
mean [3] 30/12 36/9 36/22
M
means [2] 40/11 41/21
meet [10] 14/18 30/2 31/9 32/8 32/13 32/14
32/22 34/16 34/20 35/6
meeting [15] 10/18 12/18 13/13 14/16 14/20
14/21 15/4 15/6 15/23 16/2 21/16 21/17
32/21 32/23 35/8
meetings [2] 22/5 25/23
member [1] 8/7
members [3] 5/14 32/2 35/21
men [1] 7/9
mentioned [2] 32/18 35/24
met [8] 9/13 10/9 10/10 21/25 34/10 34/13
34/16 34/21
Michael [2] 10/6 24/5
might [2] 35/10 37/17
miles [2] 21/16 21/21
mind [1] 17/12
mine [1] 27/22
MISC [1] 1/9
mistake [2] 25/12 25/20
mobile [1] 39/16
moment [1] 22/21
money [28] 11/10 14/11 16/4 17/23 18/1
18/25 19/4 19/8 29/14 30/6 30/12 30/15
30/16 30/25 35/19 35/23 36/20 36/24 37/7
37/10 37/14 37/19 38/6 38/7 38/10 38/17
39/6 40/2
Monica [3] 32/10 33/20 34/15
Monica's [1] 33/24
more [5] 14/3 15/11 16/17 28/6 36/18
morning [3] 22/19 23/7 26/20
most [1] 6/14
mouth [1] 28/13
moved [2] 5/24 5/25
Mr [31] 5/3 5/7 5/12 9/8 9/12 9/21 13/7
13/14 13/15 13/17 13/21 15/14 15/24 18/17
20/7 21/6 21/22 21/23 30/14 30/17 31/24
31/25 32/7 33/16 33/16 33/19 34/10 35/14
37/21 39/3 39/5
Mr. [40] 4/8 8/24 9/5 9/18 10/4 10/9 10/9
12/6 12/6 12/19 12/24 13/1 13/23 14/20
14/22 14/22 14/24 15/20 16/3 16/4 16/7
17/20 18/3 20/11 25/3 25/8 26/5 28/25 29/16
29/18 30/2 32/5 32/8 32/9 33/21 33/24 34/2
34/13 35/7 35/22
Mr. Ali [25] 9/18 10/4 10/9 12/6 12/19 13/23
14/20 14/22 14/24 15/20 16/4 16/7 17/20
18/3 25/8 30/2 32/5 32/8 32/9 33/21 33/24
34/2 34/13 35/7 35/22
Mr. Fenerty [3] 12/24 13/1 14/22
Mr. Perri [1] 29/18
Mr. Tyron [1] 9/5
Mr. Waters [9] 4/8 8/24 10/9 12/6 16/3
20/11 25/3 26/5 29/16
Mr. Young [1] 28/25
Ms [1] 24/5
much [5] 18/22 21/12 27/7 27/10 34/18
multiple [1] 26/11
my [30] 5/8 6/9 6/14 7/1 7/23 11/7 13/2 14/7
17/17 25/10 25/25 26/1 27/1 27/17 27/24
32/9 32/10 32/15 32/18 32/23 34/19 34/23
34/25 34/25 35/4 36/16 39/11 39/22 39/24
40/1
myself [4] 25/14 25/15 25/15 26/3
N
name [2] 18/13 32/18
near [1] 11/20
need [2] 18/18 39/10
needed [2] 15/7 34/19
neighborhood [2] 5/23 7/8
neighborhoods [1] 8/21

neighbors [1] 27/22
net [1] 27/13
never [7] 19/13 26/2 35/3 35/24 35/25 36/1
38/6
new [4] 14/9 14/16 15/9 15/10
newspaper [1] 6/8
next [2] 7/25 35/20
nice [4] 11/6 11/7 11/8 11/8
nine [1] 9/21
no [28] 1/9 3/5 3/6 8/23 16/20 17/17 17/18
17/19 17/20 18/2 19/15 19/18 19/20 19/22
20/6 22/20 22/23 23/9 24/12 24/22 29/4 29/6
29/15 35/13 37/9 37/13 37/20 38/11
nonchalant [1] 15/16
Nonetheless [1] 20/4
Normally [1] 21/14
North [1] 5/24
not [26] 4/25 10/15 13/8 15/12 15/17 16/20
20/4 20/6 20/7 24/13 25/11 25/12 25/17
25/24 26/21 27/3 27/3 27/23 32/16 34/7
34/20 35/13 37/8 38/11 38/20 41/20
NOTARISTEFANO [1] 2/5
notes [1] 41/5
notified [2] 40/10 40/13
now [13] 8/13 12/8 14/14 21/8 21/13 22/8
24/11 25/4 34/22 35/3 36/11 39/5 39/13
number [1] 7/25
numerous [1] 13/14
O
oath [2] 4/14 4/22
obligation [2] 4/21 27/7
obtain [2] 12/14 14/25
obtaining [1] 18/21
obviously [1] 5/16
occur [1] 11/17
occurred [2] 11/20 25/23
off [1] 32/4
office [8] 8/1 10/10 11/24 18/19 19/11 22/6
23/7 32/18
official [2] 39/9 41/16
often [1] 20/20
Okay [4] 28/11 32/21 33/15 37/21
oldest [1] 32/10
once [1] 12/1
one [13] 4/18 7/12 10/3 15/18 16/17 18/12
28/11 28/21 29/13 32/10 36/17 40/11 40/15
only [2] 37/1 39/13
open [1] 27/4
opinion [3] 27/1 27/17 27/24
opportunity [3] 6/15 23/21 25/4
opposed [4] 26/24 27/5 28/2 28/4
option [1] 14/16
organizing [1] 10/5
other [21] 8/20 8/21 15/7 27/20 29/7 29/11
30/20 34/5 35/23 35/25 36/2 36/20 36/24
37/5 37/7 37/10 37/14 37/16 39/13 39/22
39/23
our [1] 7/8
out [9] 5/2 8/11 14/2 27/8 37/17 39/11 39/18
39/21 40/3
outreach [2] 7/7 39/15
outside [3] 6/25 29/18 37/22
outstanding [3] 13/25 14/7 14/9
over [6] 9/4 21/8 21/16 25/14 36/3 39/24
overnight [1] 21/17
owe [1] 27/12
owed [2] 14/1 27/9
own [1] 7/1
P
p.m [3] 31/25 33/17 39/3
PAC [3] 39/11 39/22 39/25

PAGE [1] 3/5
paid [3] 10/6 24/4 24/4
paperboy [1] 6/9
Parking [11] 6/16 6/24 12/15 12/20 13/2
13/22 14/1 14/4 14/12 14/19 14/25
part [2] 36/16 36/17
particular [1] 37/19
particularly [1] 16/15
parties [2] 10/4 15/19
party [4] 10/5 10/7 12/1 12/4
past [5] 26/15 31/2 38/18 39/6 39/9
Pause [1] 33/9
pay [5] 24/2 24/8 27/8 27/8 27/10
payable [4] 39/16 39/21 39/22 39/23
payment [2] 16/5 19/3
payments [12] 9/18 9/21 11/11 11/17 11/23
13/14 13/17 19/13 22/11 22/15 36/3 39/25
pending [3] 16/7 16/10 16/24
PENNSYLVANIA [5] 1/2 1/13 7/19 27/1
27/19
people [9] 7/8 10/21 15/7 27/3 27/16 27/21
35/18 39/17 39/18
per [4] 21/9 21/10 21/12 21/14
percent [2] 27/9 27/12
periodically [1] 20/17
PERRI [6] 2/12 4/7 5/3 29/18 31/25 33/16
person [5] 6/12 7/4 17/12 18/21 25/24
persona [1] 11/2
personal [3] 18/4 37/12 37/18
personally [1] 9/20
Philadelphia [8] 1/13 5/21 6/1 6/16 10/10
11/24 12/20 16/19
Philly [3] 5/25 8/11 8/12
phone [3] 22/6 32/15 40/14
phrase [1] 10/2
picked [1] 15/7
place [2] 6/7 21/20
places [1] 21/21
plead [1] 23/20
PLEAS [1] 1/2
please [3] 6/2 34/1 37/22
politics [1] 6/19
pop [1] 31/8
position [4] 17/16 17/17 26/16 34/25
positive [1] 13/25
possibility [1] 15/8
potential [1] 37/15
POTS [2] 39/16 39/16
preliminary [2] 23/13 23/17
present [3] 2/9 6/18 15/8
presented [3] 23/1 32/17 35/16
pressing [2] 16/19 16/22
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yourself [2] 5/14 17/13
T-6 October 22, 2010
Special Agent Claude Thomas, Pennsylvania Office of Attorney

General, Badge number is 118, A Certification #A-1418, todays
date is Friday, October the 22nd, year 2010. The time is 9:28
hundred hours, about to place this device on CI #2010-01 for
consensual intercept with subject Waters and others in reference
to investigation #36-662, device is being activated at this time
and device will be deactivated at a later time today. I will be
deactivating the device. And the device is being placed on TA at
this point, 2010-01.
CT
You dont get much sleep, do you?
TA
Thats for dead people.
CT
The old school saying, sleep when youre dead.
TA
Most people dont understand when you go talking

like this, you got to keep the business going. And do
this business.
CT
Yes you have to function as you normally would. That

is a given. Have to function as you normally would. I
will put it on once this car in front of us (U/I) and that
person leaves. Just believe me when I say you never
know. Definitely dont want to take a chance. Its like
talking to opening you never know whos around.
If you want (U/I), change up the pen. The pen is all we
can change. So if you have one of your (U/I) I am the
brightest ink of all from the republican party, then
you have one of those pens, Ill put that on there as
well.
TA
Alright.
CT
You headed out?

bit.
TA
Okay.
In fact, Ill just follow you a little
1 | Page
CT
So you know where youre going, right?
TA
Yeah. Ah hmm.
CT
Good.
TA
Its 6027 at Ludlow.
CT
Look better than me cuz I dont know.
TA
Alright.
CT
(3:27) Ill follow you.
TA
Yep. See you in a second.

(15:00) See Im fucking turning here.
(U/I).
(35:08) Hey Monica, are you here?
Ok. Im here too.
Im just coming alright.
(38:40) Hey there. Good morning.
UM#1
Whats going on?
TA
(Laughs). (U/I).
UM#1
Yeah.
TA
Uhm the representative. Hes actually expecting me.
UM#1
Is he?
TA
He should be.
UM#1
What time?
TA
Ten.
UM#1
Hold on. Can you wait right here. Cuz were in a staff
meeting.
2 | Page
TA
Ok sure.
UM#1
Good morning.
TA
Good morning.
UM#1
Whats up T? I apologize for that.
TA
How you doing?
UM#1
I apologize (U/I).
TA
Hey thats alright.
UM#1
Asalamualaikum.
TA
Walaikum Salam, brother (U/I).
UF
Right upstairs.
UM#1
No they want him to wait a second.
UF
Ok.
UM#1
(U/I).
UF
Ok. You can have a seat right here (U/I) sir.
UM#1
Have a seat brother.
TA
Thanks man (U/I).
UF
Thank you.
TA
Thank you. Good morning ladies.
UM#1
February, March something like that. Whats up?
TA
At least you got something going? We did open up a

law center, though.
3 | Page
UM#1
I know.
TA
But thats a different story.
UM#1
Yeah yeah I know cuz Ive been by there several times.
TA
Yeah you know what. Sharif Sharif was actually uhm

gonna come over but he took a job at Zarwin Baum so
he may still come over part-time.
UM#1
Did (U/I) though.
TA
No thats Claire Harrison.
UM#1
Ok.
TA
Wolf Block.
UM#1
Gotch ya.
TA
Then both both firms actually.
UM#1
Last time you talk to Mel cuz.
TA
I havent.
UM#1
He said aint talk to you, man.
TA
Steve Steve just left me brother.

mean so it was like.
UM#1
I beg to differ.
TA
And I was like.
UM#1
You know we was tight.
TA
I- I-
4 | Page
You know what I
UM#1
All three of us was tight.
TA
Between me and you I was sort of hurt cuz you see

where Im at.
UM#1
(U/I) Steve.
TA
They got the other boy.

(U/I) look man, Im worth a
couple million dollars. I dont need that crap.
UM#1
(U/I). I know that.
TA
You know what I mean. So Im not Im not its just one

of those things where you signed the check, its your
signature but we use stamps. Which is why now every
check thats signed is right here.
UM#1
Correct.
TA
Right.
UM#1
Right.
TA
Cuz that almost changed my life.
UM#1
Yeah.
TA
We got, we got we got two banks. One in New York

and one out of Florida that Im lobbying for because
they ah they didnt have any choice so they gave me
back my lobbying license. So we are in full swing.
I
got just under ten mill and were looking to do stuff.
UM#1
Alright, you still at the same place?
TA
Oh yeah yeah. Nothings changed.
UM#1
Ok.
TA
You know what I mean.
5 | Page
UM#1
Yep.
TA
Theres a small lapse.
UM#1
Ah hmm.
TA
In time because that had to get straighten out. This

piece.
UM#1
Right.
TA
Because they held me up you know what I mean.
UM#1
(U/I) they get their money.
TA
Uh uh. Who told you that?
UM#1
You dont talk to people
TA
But listen man, I havent seen you.
UM#1
I know.
TA
John look, you know me better than that.

If if
something was really that wrong, I would have just
dealt with it but a lot of things people just talk.
UM#1
Yeah.
TA
They dont know.
UM#1
Yeah.
TA
You know what I mean. They dont know.
UM#1
I was with Steve last week actually. Last, last, when

was it?
TA
I think between me and you, thats my brother.

got scared.
6 | Page
He
UM#1
Yeah.
TA
He got scared. He was like.
UM#1
Rightfully so.
TA
Well not rightfully so.
UM#1
Thats his cousin.
TA
I know. I know. I know. A lot of people. A lot of

people got you know its like this is some kind of
witch hunt cuz we know Ty. He got money. What is,
what is that about? You know what I mean?
UM#1
We know that much (U/I) thats why I was like (U/I).
TA
Dont need to be doing that madness.
UM#1
I havent heard from you. We went past the spot a few

times (U/I).
TA
Ah hmm.
UM#1
(U/I).
TA
Thats nice of him to come look for me man.

should call him up and let me say hi.
UM#1
Yeah.
TA
Hed be in shock cuz I havent seen him.

seen him.
UM#1
You still got his number. He has the same number.

Steve got the same number.
TA
I dont remember it.
UM#1
(U/I).
7 | Page
You
I havent
TA
I dont even remember it. Well last night somebody

was telling me they seen, I forget who it was, that you
know at the end of the day, its it was a mistake.
UM#1
Ah hmm.
TA
They did what they needed to do.
UM#1
Ah hmm.
TA
We got it straightened out.
UM#1
Ok.
TA
You know I was made whole quite some time ago so.
UM#1
Right.
TA
Im just looking to do one thing here because you

know that bar you were talking about.
UM#1
I was going to bring it up, yeah.
TA
Ok so thats where we are because Joe has some other

things going.
UM#1
Oh ok.
TA
Nobody has any money.
UM#1
Right.
TA
Im willing to provide it as long as we can make some

money. You know what I mean.
UM#1
Yeah (U/I).
TA
Yesterday.
UM#1
(U/I) yesterday.
8 | Page
TA
Yesterday ah hmm.
UM#1
You see how its changing.
TA
It but you know what.
UM#1
You see that the faces are changing.

people down there now
TA
The thing the thing thats hard to kind of put together

is where they getting the money from for all the
rehabs? Because nobody is lending? So must be
people using their own money.
UM#1
Thats what it is. See whats happening is a lot of the

drug boys, they flipping over bricks now. Leaving the
other bricks alone and now you know white bricks
now are going to (U/I).
TA
Real estate.
UM#1
Yeah cuz its sweet.
TA
When did you leave the other place?
UM#1
Uh shit. Been here since March. So I left there.
TA
Thats good that he got you a job though.
UM#1
Yeah.
TA
You needed something steady.
UM#1
Yep. Six months out went to Senator Williams for nine

months. Took a chill for six months and came.
TA
Hows hows your son?
UM#1
The twins?
9 | Page
Its all white
TA
Yes.
UM#1
The twins they one has severe autism you remember

that.
TA
Yeah I remember. Yeah.
UM#1
(47:35) Ahm the two now one of them has severe

autism. Both of them have a little you know we just
hoping that (U/I) one of twins is not talking at all yet.
Thats the one with severe autism. But shes getting
SSI for both.
TA
Ah hmm.
UM#1
You know. She actually just got an increase in it. So I

mean you know, were okay financially in terms of
supporting their issues but its just a immensive
stress, like we had them at Pencrest.
TA
Ah hmm.
UM#1
On Broad and Pike.
TA
Yeah I know where it is.
UM#1
And he made it more one on one as opposed to this is

the one with the severe autism so now hes over at
Ellwyn on Henry Avenue and he goes every day and
the bus picks him up and brings him back to
Education Works, the day care center that they go to.
TA
Ah hmm.
UM#1
So I mean hes doing a lot better. Hes ah more

responsive. They had to put a tube in his ears to
increase his hearing. They were saying because he
had multiple ear infections the sound or something
may be distorted but hes been great since he ah he
got that thing put in his ear.
10 | P a g e
TA
Diet and exercise is so important.
UM#1
Yeah well they have so much energy at three man.

And ah he has a ver very distinct diet. I mean like
certain things I try to trick him and put it on a fork as
opposed to a spoon. He looks at it and pushes it
away. So I wait you know. Trick him, give him
something that he likes.
TA
Ah hmm.
UM#1
And put on something that he wont eat and he just

push it away. Even with ice cream. You know hes
hes vanilla. So if its not white, he wont put it in his
mouth.
I mean even banana.
Banana anything
strawberry. Hell look, push it right away. Hell push
it to your mouth. You eat it. Vanilla, hell grab your
hand and you know take the spoon from you and eat
it but (U/I).
TA
Children with autism have very different set of they

have a different set of interpretations with things that
we would consider to be normal.
UM#1
Mm hmm.
TA
You know part of that distortion comes from their

ability to not readily interpret things as we should see
them.
UM#1
Right.
TA
You know because theres always some resistance.
UM#1
Ah hmm.
TA
Cuz theyre trying to make up their mind.
UM#1
Right.
TA
You know.
11 | P a g e
UM#1
Yeah (U/I).
TA
And sometimes theyre trying to understand what that

really is.
UM#1
Yeah. You can see that in the thinking process when

he looks at it, okay.
TA
Ah hmm.
UM#1
Ah nope that color aint right. (U/I) Im not putting it

in my mouth.
TA
Im glad to see you are doing well though.
UM#1
Hey man Im (U/I) square you.
TA
Yeah.
UM#1
Im still trying to get the bar actually I was talking to

this guy (U/I) cuz you see what happened to Bruce,
right?
TA
No.
UM#1
Oh man.
TA
Hawkins?
UM#1
Huh?
TA
Bruce Hawkisn?
UM#1
No (U/I).
TA
No. What happened to him?
UM#1
(U/I) from the Americas (U/I).
TA
Yeah yeah yeah.

12 | P a g e
UM#1
One day I come Fox News and theres Bruce coming

out.
TA
Oh God.
UM#1
Yep. State Police ran up in there and said that shady

things going on with titles and all that stuff. And ah I
hear he is working in a overnight stocker in a
supermarket.
TA
He got jammed up that bad, huh?
UM#1
Yeah.
TA
I tell you something. The the piece that people dont

understand is if you have one person to do something
and they are important to you, your lawyer, your
accountant, have another guy watching that guy.
Thats critical because at the end of the day the truth
comes out. Thats number one. Number two, you
need to have enough money and be patient for that to
happen. Because its a process. But look who Im
talking to. Im preaching to the choir.
UM#1
Right absolutely.
TA
You know the deal.
UM#1
Yeah yeah.
TA
It takes awhile to ah get get things right. I mean for

me it took me thirty days but it was thirty days after
so much fall out.
UM#1
Yeah.
TA
You know what I mean cuz you know I know

everybody and everybody knows me back.
UM#1
Right.
13 | P a g e
TA
You know what I mean. But thank God my real friends

didnt desert me.
UM#1
Right
TA
(Laughs).
UM#1
You talk to Mel?
TA
I have not. I have not. I havent. After that situation

with Stace man. I have not seen at all. Have you seen
Stace?
UM#1
No I didnt think he was still in the country (U/I).
TA
They said he was down in Florida. I sent Steve had

asked me to sent him to give him money to buy his
ticket. You know I like Stace man so I gave it to him
but I dont know what happened.
UM#1
So Stace didnt run with ahm whatchamacalls money?
TA
Whos money?
UM#1
(U/I).
TA
Come on man.
UM#1
(U/I).
TA
You believe that?
UM#1
Hey man, I dont know what to believe.
TA
You know.
UM#1
(U/I) Mel using him as a scapegoat.
TA
Who knows.
ODAT has got so many problems.
Theyve had some problems for the past five years.
14 | P a g e
You know.
UM#1
Really?
I know he had some tax problems (U/I)
brother went to his place and hes been down there
(U/I) somebody needs to talk to you man. Are we over
yet? No.
TA
Do you see how life is? You see how life is?
UM#1
(U/I).
TA
Whats going on brother?
UM#1
(U/I).
TA
(On the phone).

Its Tyron Steve.
(Laughs).
Not yea man.
You alright?
Yeah.
You alright?
You alright?
Alright man.
I just want you to know that everything has been cool
for quite some time. I just dont have that phone
anymore. Probably. Hows that probably. Thats real
good. No because well you know how it went. You
know what I mean. Thank God we were able to get it
straightened out.
And I and I did get back my
lobbying license. You know so. Yeah. Yep. So we got
it under control. Anyway brother, its good talking to
you. Alright. Ill see you. Bye-bye. Here you go
brother (hands phone back).
UM#1
Are you serious?
TA
Good morning. Good morning.
UF
Good morning.
15 | P a g e
(Background conversation).
TA
(59:21) Sure.
that.
Only a few people make me wait like
UF
(U/I).
TA
How are you?
UF
(U/I) finishing up with a meeting upstairs.
TA
Oh ok.
UF
With Brian.
TA
Is he ready now?
UF
(U/I).
TA
Ok. Oh my. Anything you give me for free John you

know I will take it.
UF
Cutting out all my carbohydrates, sweets, then Ill do

the (U/I). I usually get a good work out at Bally (U/I).
TA
Thanks. Low hello. Its been too long.
RW
Yeah.
TA
How are you sir?
RW
I know who this brother is.
TA
How are you doing sir? Oh I said man they send my

seat, Ill get completely grey and old.
RW
Oh no.
TA
Howve you been?
RW
Im fine. How ya doing?

16 | P a g e
TA
See what happens.
RW
Yeah.
TA
Everything is cool now.
RW
Yeah.
TA
They gave me back my.
RW
(U/I).
TA
Yeah.
Everybody in the day care business know
everybody else.
RW
Yeah thats true. Thats true.
TA
How are you doing?
RW
Thats true.
TA
I see you got Ya-Ya down there.
RW
Yeah yeah. he works for (U/I). Hes been here almost

a year now. He started like February. Yeah.
TA
He needed something steady.
RW
(U/I) helping people out. Can only, makes you feel

good about yourself. You got something to give.
TA
(Laughs).
RW
Thats what we do here.
TA
(1:01:58) You know most of the things that are going

on now see they are looking at some redistricting
again.
RW
Oh yeah. Every ten years.

17 | P a g e
TA
So it will be interesting to see how some of the

development projects kind of get waited around
because what they assume will be correct for the last
three or four years, once that redistricting takes
place, its not going to be the same people that youre
dealing with anymore.
RW
No. Well pick up new people. Were going to pick up

a lot of new youll some of the people but youll get
a lot of new people. Depending on where I go, I know
for me because they tore down the housing
developments over in South Philadelphia, that I lost a
lot of people in that so I got to make that up when
they do the redistricting. I mean I dont get them
back once they build but they werent there for
statistics statistics when that was done. So now I got
this ahm loss population that I will get back but and
thats probably I dont know how many thousands of
people and then when they put, do the development
back up again, if I still got the same area. Im gonna
get all these new people but they wont be counted in
my numbers for resources. Its deep the way they
have it.
TA
Part of the part of the fundamental flaw beyond what

you just talked about is being able to compensate for
some of those resources that youre going to lose.
RW
Yeah.
TA
[1:03:35] Right now Im lobbying for some financial

services businesses. Two of them are banks.
RW
Ok.
TA
So weve got a couple of projects in the works. One in

North Philadelphia and the one right where you are.
RW
Ok.
18 | P a g e
TA
Um, its sizable because its over five hundred

thousand dollars.
RW
Ok.
TA
Um, I dont know yet what their set asides gonna be.
Im coming to talk to you first because you know how
it is. I dont want you to hear about it from anybody
else but me. Cause Im the guy thats taken the lead
on this. The total investment might be like two
million dollars.
RW
Ok.
TA
You know? So I said let me just come over, say hi,

cause I havent seen you in a year and a half, you
know?
RW
Has it been that long? It cant be that long.
TA
Its, its been that long.
RW
It has? Wow.
TA
Its been that long. I just talked to Steve actually.
RW
Ok.
TA
And I havent talked to Steve in a year and a half.
RW
Ok.
TA
Cause after that little piece I had to get back together,

you know, and the fact whos lobbying for you now?
Anybody?
RW
Lobbying, what do you mean lobbying? In what way?
TA
For anything thats legislative.

Do you
somebody looking at it before it actually
19 | P a g e
have
RW
Goes
TA
Goes up?
RW
Well we got departments in the House.

Now it
depends on what the legislation is. Ill send it to
whoever, um, who probably have expert knowledge of
this particular area. So its no one particular person
thats an expert on all the stuff that I do.
TA
Well no there, there some there, there are two

senators that Im thinking about now. Nothing will go
through until they, they talk to me because part of
what were doing is looking to see how the scope of
these projects are going to affect whats taking place
there now and because its all banking and financial
services, everybody knows thats what I do. You
know, so maybe we can have that conversation later
on.
RW
Okay.
TA
But I just want to come pass, say hi, see whether or

not, you know, we could talk about this because this
is going to be good. Um, most of the time we dont
have a lot of say. This time because Im in charge of
the project, I have all the say.
RW
Okay, okay, that helps.
TA
Well you kow the the see what Nutter did with the one
set of folks? Theres going to be a lawsuit against the
city. This lady came through. She wants to set up
three ahm grocery stores that are sizable. About the
same size of Shop Rite. Shes got three letters of
credit. One for ten million, one for seventeen million,
one for like nine or another ten million. The city gave
the land to John Westrom over there in Brewerytown.
And now the fights going to be she wants her land
back or their going to have to compensate her. So I
dont know how these folks in council are going to get
20 | P a g e
that done because that seems next to impossible and

beyond that.
RW
Whats impossible, to give her land back to her?
TA
Yep.
RW
What if they use (U/I) eminent domain or what?
TA
They might have to. I think one one of the ahm one
situation is down in Brewerytown where John is.
RW
Right.
TA
The other situation is up in Germantown piece of

which Donna Reed Miller controls.
RW
Ok.
TA
So at some point, Im going to be getting involved

with that. You know and and Im not trying to push
anybody but were not going to ah let that happen
because at the end of the day, what is this about? Its
about jobs, its about growth and its about taxable
income. You know and and as far as Im concerned,
those three tenants make up a rising economy. And
for now, I mean, even in the other businesses like Im
dealing with, everybodys got a problem and and for
the most part, they cant find the right work force and
they cant find capital. I cant help them with the
work force but I can help them with the capital. So
being able to invest in small projects even something
that you might now of, that lets say that the person.
Do you remember the Hilal Bilal. Do you remember
that I was involved with that whole set up? Lets say
that the project is I dont know, two hundred grand.
They go to the bank. The FICO score is 680. Theyre
not gonna get financing. With us, they might. Were
looking for the right business plan, the right
managerial team, and the ability for those folks not to
just revenue, but to have a real plan to pay us back
21 | P a g e
within a five year period. Those are the things that

will help us help them.
RW
Ok.
TA
You know. Last night I was talking to Rosita. Ahm she

kind of understands where we are. I mean I I dont
Ive been in this for long enough that I dont really
have to prove myself you know. The other piece is
that were able to free up dollars for small businesses
that the banks have no way of doing because all credit
lending at any FDIC insured bank because of the way
their insurances work, they must meet those FICO
requirements. If they cant meet them, they cant lend
the money. Its kind of interesting when you hear the
president say you know were freeing up money or
were giving the money to banks to lend to people.
Well unfortunately the way this really works if the
insurance companies for the banks or the reinsurance
companies for those banks say that youve got to have
a 780 FICO score, you got to be employed for fifteen
years and if you have a wife or a husband, they must
also have similar similar FICO score and they must
have assets as well. Youre not gonna get people
lending. Youre not going to get people lending in
your neighborhood, youre not going to get people
lending in Rositas. Louise maybe. Cuz shes got
another piece where those folks over
RW
(U/I).
TA
(1:09:43) Overbrook Farms and all that.

Their
properties are worth six, seven, eight hundred
thousand dollars without even trying. You know but
for the small mom and pop you know, we ran into a
situation where one of the Dominican guys, he wanted
to open up a grocery store. And he has the building
but he doesnt have the money to purchase stock and
inventory and he doesnt have the money to get all of
the zoning requirements fulfilled. So my thing is you
know he needs thirty grand thats what Im going to
22 | P a g e
give him. You know and the interest rate is not going
to be something that is not commensurate with the
state requirements or the banks requirements. Were
going to keep it prime plus one. Because that is a
premium lending rate. Youre not going to get that for
people who have FICO scores of less than 600. It is
impossible. One of the reasons for that again is the
fact that the banks are being held to such a standard.
You know people say well the banks have already paid
off part of the money that was given in terms of the
TARP and part of the stimulus and theyve even paid it
back with interest. The truth of the matter is that
while the economy is dwindling, even though the
banks are another financial institution like AIG, while
they were going belly up, the interest that they are
paying is basically just keeping things on even keel..
Its keeping the status quo. Its not growing the
economy. The growth of the economy comes from
small business and forty or fifty percent of the newer
jobs that are going to be created, number one they are
only temporary, number two, they come with no
benefits and number three, these are unproven
sectors of the economy. Nobody right now has the
technology to create a new economy and thats what
we need. You know so in the meantime, while we are
waiting for that to happen, guys like me and two other
guys, were looking at small projects where we can
actually fund it ourselves or use one of our clients
and have them fund it in tandem with us. We will own
part of the business but the person, if they are willing
to give up a small percentage, I am willing to give
them whatever they need in order to move forward
because I know you know we were even thinking
about a bar you know I was talking to Ya-Ya about that
forever. But then getting the liquor license is one
thing, you got to get through the zoning piece. And
then youve got to be able to say to the leadership
thats in the neighborhood, yes we understand what
we need and heres how we think we can help. Not
everybody is willing to listen to that conversation you
know so Im reaching out to the folks that I know that
23 | P a g e
I can actually talk to and beyond that they have the

neighborhood at their best interest. You know the
neighborhood and their best interest. I sound I sound
like so intelligent right?
RW
(U/I). Thats where I am
TA
(1:12:31) At a cellular level. I was telling somebody

that last night. I said you know if its procurement
lobby oh this is the other thing. Let me let me begin
this piece by saying this. The money for non-profits
its flowed pretty well in the past six or seven years.
When the change of leadership occurs because it will,
and thats either way it goes, its gonna change. Ive
got one client that will provide grant money
specifically to minority owned businesses that are
non-profits.
RW
Ok.
TA
If theyre not, we dont want to talk to them.
RW
Ok.
TA
You know ahm.
RW
This is like not grants, this is going to be like loans?
TA
No its its its what we call a PPP. Its a public private

partnership.
RW
Ok.
TA
We will get the grant dollars right from here. We will

partner them with our bank or a bank that is one of
our clients. And well have the ability to actually form
a true partnership. And like I said, Im willing because
I understand I have the conversation with somebody
at Temples SBDC Center I understand that people
cant afford to pay much more than prime plus one.
For the first, I would I I dont have anything on paper
24 | P a g e
yet, but I would dare to say that for the first twenty
four months, my relationship, I feel is so good with
our client that they will actually allow for prime plus
one for twenty four months. You cant beat that. Cuz
youre gonna get some kind of loan modifications
after twelve months with anybody you go to right
now.
Especially on foreclosures.
How are the
foreclosures situation in your neighborhood?
RW
Well its funny that you would ask that ahm just
yesterday I was talking to with a friend of mine whos
in real estate. He was talking about the problem hes
having.
I know they were suppose to have a
foreclosure protest yesterday down at City Hall.
TA
Ah ha.
RW
With John Dobbs.
TA
Ah ha.
RW
And (U/I). So Im looking at maybe having some

resource information (knock on door). Whats up?
UM
Excuse me bro, I need to speak to you for a second.
RW
Ok. Im looking at doing
UM
(U/I) important call.
RW
- some outreach to find out At (U/I) what is what is

the foreclosure powers in the neighborhood and.
TA
No problem. We can help you with that.
RW
Yeah. I want to be able to help people, you know. I

havent gotten a lot of complaints about it. As many
as I think I should be getting but.
TA
Because they might not know.
25 | P a g e
RW
They may not know.
TA
They may not know.

Thanks for setting up the
meeting. That was very nice of you. That was mighty
white of you.
UF
(U/I).
TA
Wow. Now thats a good slogan.

incarceration.
UF
Ah hmm.
TA
Thats a good slogan.
UF
(U/I) project. Thats one of the projects they working

for. Remember I told you (U/I) non-profit.
TA
Oh I cant really see it from here.
UF
(U/I) I know that ahm (U/I) they working straight with

Graterford.
TA
With the lifers?
UF
Ah hmm.
TA
I was involved with that. I was actually on the

advisory board for parole and probation for the state.
UF
Yale over jail (U/I) ahm quotes (U/I).
TA
Really?
UF
Yeah that they want the kids to say Yale over jail,
Penn State over.
TA
Thats a perfect opportunity to get the colleges

involved.
Just speaking to your point about
foreclosures ahm in your neighborhood because you
have transient residents you know they may be living
26 | P a g e
Education over
with mom or the grandmother and they go back to the

house and the next thing you know three or four
months down the road, they are up for sheriffs sale.
The moratorium that was passed for for this
mediation for this forced mediation between the
lender and the homeowner ah ultimately will expire.
And so what you are going to see even though there is
sort of a alull in terms of the foreclosures now, you
are going to see a spike again I mean do do you have
any conversations with anybody from PFHA?
RW
Uh uh.
TA
Ok. The folks at PFHA because of this situation with

PHA theyve got some real concerns because while
they money was being lent to provide first time home
buyers with grant money as well as initial payment
money, some of those properties will wind up in an
upside down mortgage situation. Where the person
you know they bought the house the house for lets
say eighty thousand dollars, theyve got a two year
fixed and after those two years are over, theyre gonna
see a spike in their interest maybe four or five percent
which doesnt sound very significant except when
those properties are re-assessed the taxes are going to
be much higher included in that because you are
taking a risk on the homeowner, you have forced
mortgage insurance which is called PMI and in
addition to that youre gonna have the new interest
rate for the old mortgage. So in other words, its I
dont you cant call it a property tax increase because
its not a tax right? But it is a cost of living increase.
RW
(U/I).
TA
Yes.
RW
Still has the same effect.
TA
Yes call it by another name but it has the same effect.
27 | P a g e
RW
Same effect, right.
TA
(1:18:30) So so those things are important. The other

thing is if youre part-time in terms of your
employment and you were full-time when you got the
mortgage, what happens next is that the scalpers will
come in, they will offer the folks a much more
discounted price, its typically twenty or thirty
percent below fair market value and suddenly what
these folks are sitting on is a gold mine you know.
Shirley was having all these mortgage foreclosure ah
seminars. Those things dont work. What you need is
a real solution to a real problem.
Part of the real
problem is that people do not take the time to read
their mortgage contracts. The other piece of that is
even if they could read it, they dont understand it
right?
RW
Right.
TA
So being able to get the legal ease out of the mortgage

contact is critical right? The other piece for that is to
ensure that if someone is just receiving partial
unemployment benefits or if theyre only employed
part-time, to work with the lender to be able to down
size that mortgage by doing one of two things. You
can put the amount of money that someone owes now
you can put that into whats called a forbearance
agreement. And they can actually add that in on the
back of the mortgage.
That is one of the most
effective ways to rescue someone from being
homeless. and at the end of the day, you know what
in my opinion, and I could be wrong, but at the end of
the day, fighting homelessness is what this is this is
what it comes down to. It comes down in my mind to
fighting homelessness. In addition to being able to do
ah a forbearance agreement, you can also have the
person enter into a payment arrangement that allows
them to pay one, one and a half, one and a quarter,
one and a third are the payments that theyre behind
now which allows them to catch up. And if thats not
28 | P a g e
possible, you can allow the person to refinance their

property bearing.
RW
Well how, how do we get the people in to maybe

discuss you know especially people who are in
jeopardy of losing their homes. And then you got
these other issues. Now some of that stuff sounds
like its legislative.
TA
Some of it is. Thats why Im talking to you.
RW
Right. Sounds legislative in terms I mean I think that

if there are problems with understanding your
mortgage arrangement or agreement that they maybe
need it simplified.
TA
Yes.
RW
Ok.
TA
Yes.
RW
And I think in other cases were doing it with

something (U/I) but there is no reason why stuff
should be so complicated that you must have some
other expert read it to you or interpret it for you.
TA
And even if they lets lets say you know typically in

order to get that passed you need a study. Well
whoever puts up the cash for the study, whosever
sponsoring it may inject into that study a biased
opinion so its very important that whoever is is
looking at the creation of that feasibility study, that
they be non-connected. So that there is no bias.
RW
Yeah well that can happen.
TA
But its difficult. It is difficult because when you look

at the American Tax Petroleum Institute or I think its
API, the American Petroleum Institute, most of your
legislators get money out of this group. Right. So its
29 | P a g e
difficult and Im using Im picking on them for a

second but there are also folks who get money from
the American Bankers Association. So it would be
difficult for them to appoint a legislator to take over
this task. And even if you went to the committee,
maybe the legislatures who are on that committee
may also be getting money at the same time.
Everybody is feeding from the same trough. That is
why, in my opinion, and I brought this Im gonna
probably have someone bring this to the floor before
session is out which is simply to look at utilizing
specific non-profit groups that truly have no interest
no interest financial or otherwise except to say that
they would like to fight homelessness.
RW
Right.
TA
You know.
RW
But we got I mean the legislature can do that and but

we do have different governmental agencies that are
ahm authorized and given the jurisdiction to do
studies. I mean some of the some stuff we come up
with, we make a resolution to whatever that
department or agency is to conduct a study on this
particular issue and then they will take it and theyll
come back with their findings and you know.
TA
We dont want what happened to the DROP program

happen here. Because they had to get a study done
and then they needed a study to see if that study was
viable.
RW
(U/I).
TA
(Laughs).
RW
(U/I) the mayor had his study (U/I) the mayor (U/I).
TA
Did you hear about this?
30 | P a g e
RW
(U/I). The mayor was) going fix the one to do the

study.
TA
Right.
RW
To bring the results he wanted (U/I).
TA
(1:23:58) Right right right.
RW
(U/I) so said were going to do our study.
TA
Right.
RW
So you know what I mean. So I mean and youre right.

It has to be unbiased because all right now, Im just
sayin, all were trying to do is figure out how do we
simplify and uncomplicated some of the agreements
because some people and, really right now with house
on the water is because they entered into this when
they deregulation where they were getting people
these properties that the knew that these people
couldnt afford but they didnt even care. It was like
unload these properties and now people are you know
you know owe more than the propertys worth but
thats another reason why maybe because they didnt
understand what they were (U/I) and maybe if it was
simplified easier to read, thats just why something
like this would be helpful to preventing this mass
underwater crisis that we have going on in our county
right now. So that right there is is is the good reason
for doing it.
TA
(1:24:58) Well Ill tell ya. I think youre absolutely

right. The fact that one of the lenders is willing to
take a look, take a step back, maybe they cant do
anything, let the foreclosure crisis because remember
now, the people who originate, the bank who
originates the loan, sells the loan in a package.
RW
Yeah.
31 | P a g e
TA
The packaging has nothing to do with the servicing

organization so the folks that Im working for even
though they may not be able to help ahm create a
better financial situation for the house, for the home,
what they are willing to do is say hey look, well help
them start a business so that they can pay for that
home or help them get or, you know get involved with
some community projects so that we can help out.
You know and as ah as soon as I heard it, I said I know
Ron probably probably going crazy with all this stuff.
RW
No I havent heard, I havent gotten much of a kick

from this ah for doing this foreclosure stuff. Thats
my district. I understand it because I have some part
TA
Leannas gotten a lot of kick.
RW
Has she? Well I guess people are running up there.
TA
Ah hmm.
RW
My people are are rather renters and they wouldnt be

concerned expect for if the landlord is going to lose
the property and that happens in some cases too. The
the renter is the victim of the effect the landlord is
underwater and the property now you know he cant
afford to keep it. And then what does that mean for
their homes? You know thats (U/I) I have a lot of
Section 8 and I have a lot of just renters that that
really make up a great deal of transient population
(U/I).
TA
Ah hmm.
RW
But when I go out to Yeadon a lot of those folks out

there, but not all of them cuz they started accepting
Section 8 up there too. And Section 8 is really what
allows so many people to be able to go to these
suburban communities right now.
32 | P a g e
TA
The the piece that I think that a lot of the lenders were
were not looking at is that while you provide someone
with the initial capital, the initial down payment to
acquire that house, if you are not educated enough to
be relevant in todays work force, youre going to lose
that house -
RW
True.
TA
- anyway.
RW
Anyway.
TA
So so the next piece is about being educationally

relevant and that is also a difficult thing. Ahm so one
of the proposals that I will probably be putting
together in the next probably week or so is a simple
one pager that talks about what kind of jobs are going
to be available where the jobs can where you can for
them at the community college or one of the institutes
and then there is one other thing that I am looking at
and its this. The state of Pennsylvania has two
hundred fifty two million dollars thats out there. Ok.
Property taxes, different different types of monies
that are owed to the state. Ah I winded up creating a
program for a collection agency.
Now I put two
hundred something thousand dollars of my own
money behind it. The place is is ready to go. Ahm
unfortunately its not in your district cuz we be
having a different conversation but we will be looking
at ways to develop that work force and then possibly
create another project in a different part of the city
because you can always have your main headquarters
one place and then have smaller satellite offices
where you only hire between two and five people. A
receptionist, and four servicing agents or four
collectors and that by itself will generate a couple
hundred thousand dollars a year.
RW
(1:28:47) Ah ha.
33 | P a g e
TA
You know. Its just putting people back to work. This

is this is not rocket science you know. In some cases
it might be.
RW
(U/I) Greedy man. A lot of those people who ran into

got these problems because of greed. They were
going after stuff because it sound good and they
didnt Three forty six to change flight. Why does it
cost so much money to change of flight?
UF
(U/I).
RW
(U/I).
UF
It use to be seventy five dollars.
RW
It use to be a hundred.
UF
I remember when it was 75.
TA
A hundred.
RW
I used to, I paid a hundred
TA
Hundred.
RW
- immediately. I mean I paid a hundred the same day.

I pay.
UF
Well thats what for you and (U/I) Southwest (U/I).
RW
Southwest this is, is this Southwest?

Southwest.
UF
Yeah, it use to be $75. I was going to change to get

back here.
RW
(U/I) I need to talk to these people alright.
UF
Ok so Ill tell them. (U/I). Im on hold (U/I) hang up

with them right now but thats a lot of money.
34 | P a g e
I think this is
RW
That is a lot.
UF
(U/I). Ill tell them to hold.
RW
Yeah let me talk to those people. Schucks. $346 to

Im not going until like a month from now. Its not like
no big problem. Its not the same day.
TA
Well can you just cancel your reservation and then re

re re ah.
RW
Thats what Im gonna do cuz Im sure if I cancel then,

I mean they cant charge you for canceling. The flight
is not until November 18th so they cant charge you. I
know you have so many days to cancel without a fee
so Im just gonna cancel.
TA
Yeah that that sounds like the better deal.
RW
Yeah so (U/I).
UF
But can you cancel with Southwest? If its Southwest?

I dont know I know online you cant.
RW
You cant cancel online? What do you mean?
UF
They ah its like a (U/I).
RW
I mean with the whole flight wasnt 346. I dont even

think the flight was three hundred forty six dollars.
UF
Right.
RW
(U/I).
UF
(1:30:53) I dont think you can cancel though on

Southwest.
Like they have like good prices and
everything you know the baggage fly free but they
have other stipulations to that lock you in and I think
once you buy your ticket you kind of locked in with
35 | P a g e
them, you can exchange but I think it is more so

TA
Just cancel.
UF
If you cancel you might not get his money back.
TA
What.
UF
Thats what Im saying. Youre kind of locked in with

Southwest.
RW
Yeah but now they
UF
Its like a (U/I).
TA
Dont fly Southwest anymore.
RW
We did it with them.
UF
Unless you had insurance.

thats different.
RW
Im sure I had insurance.
UF
Ok, that might be different.

see.
RW
Call and find out.
UF
I usually just go I.
RW
Three hundred forty six. Its like the Michael Nutter

soda tax. You know. I bought a bottle a two liter
bottle of soda at PathMark, the one in Upper Darby. It
was seventy nine cents for a pepsi right. Now Im
looking at the two cents on the ounce soda tax would
have been sixty four ounces that would have been one
hundred twenty eight, that would have been a dollar
and twenty eight cents tax on a seventy nine cent
bottle of soda. So its like well the PathMark on
Monument Road in Greys Ferry you wouldnt go there
36 | P a g e
If you have insurance,
I dont know.
I didnt
to shop now you are forced to go shop in Upper Darby

because, and now that wont help Philadelphia.
UF
No it doesnt.
RW
Why would you pay a dollar and twenty eight cents on

something that only costs seventy nine cents.
UF
I know.
RW
Thats a thats totally a crazy thing. And then have

some places where they got three liter bottles of soda
then what would the tax be. The, like that pop top.
TA
Let me just share this with you. We supported him.

Financially, tremendously. Ok. Upwards of seventy
five grand.
RW
Ok.
TA
Alright cuz I was writing those checks. Heres the

problem. He aint looking out for nobody man.
RW
No.
TA
Look at me now. Nobody.
RW
You know and thats one of the problems with black

these black mayors that we had so far. You know I
look at Maynard Jackson, the Marion Berries, when
they turn people into millionaires, they turn black
people and people of color into millionaires while
they were mayor.
They helped people get their
businesses up and running and provided to be prime
contractors in whatever. There is people who are still
spending the money that they made and still have
TA
In the eighties.
RW
(1:33:41) (U/I).
37 | P a g e
TA
Yep.
RW
That that they developed in the eighties while they

were mayor because Maynard Jackson said you aint
building this airport if black people aint involved.
And thats it. Now I dont know who Goode, Street, or
this mayor is helping to become a people of color
millionaires.
TA
I think.
RW
(U/I) strong business people. I dont know.
TA
I I swear to God, Streets having a meltdown. Let me

tell you something ok. One of my boys saw him the
other day. You know that little clown Charles Gibb.
RW
Yeah I know him.
TA
Ok. Smart kid.
RW
Right.
TA
But has no business in politics. Politics is a contact

sport.
RW
Right.
TA
If you cant take a hit, dont get in the ring brother.
RW
Right.
TA
Dont get in the ring. You gotta know what you are
dealing with. I told Sharif I said listen, the first time
he came to me, I said I guarantee you Franks gonna
give it to you eventually man. Just just dont go at the
old man like that. I told Kenyatta when he was
running up against Harris. I said listen man. Thats
my boy. You cant just run up in there like that
because the democrats are going to lose what Harold
had which was the chairman of the Casino Gambling
38 | P a g e
Commission. You remember me and you were sitting

down there talking about that.
RW
(U/I) seniority because you want to run.
TA
Because you are selfish.
RW
(U/I).
TA
Because you are selfish. Everybody has to pay.
RW
Right.
TA
I saw Kenyatta last night. I say listen man, just

remember something. What do I do best? I write
checks, right? Your job is to make sure you can
govern and stop being up Williams ass like that. And
he just looked at me and I told him I said you are a
state rep. Go and take off that Michael Jackson outfit
you got on. You know. Bring yourself into a place
where you look responsible, you act responsibly, and
people see you as a vital source of critical
information. You know anybody can get stuff on the
news. They can find anything in the newspaper but
be able to have that Socratic method always at your
fingertips. Always question the why, the when, the
how so that your constituents can benefit from your
leadership. I know thats that might be a nuance to
you but thats what were looking for. This is one of
the reasons why I dont, you know I havent put out
any money probably in about a year because weve
been saving that war chest cuz I know we can put out
a hundred fifty, two hundred thousand dollars for the
election. But but its not gonna help us because we
know where this election is going.
RW
Right.
TA
You know and Sestak showed up late. He showed up

late. Onorato wasnt there (laughs).
39 | P a g e
RW
Yeah, hes not (U/I).
TA
No and honestly I think you know folks are gonna

have to get in their head that theyre gonna have to
work with Tom Corbett.
And and part of that
transition is being able to talk to republican lobbyists
like me to help them bridge that gap because whats
important in your neighborhood, housing, education,
the ability to have people be able to afford food, you
know.
RW
Right.
TA
(1:36:49) These are things that are close to Corbett. I

know for a fact the education piece is definitely close
to him. You know there is a little or no difference on
what Onorato says and what Corbett says. The other
piece is I dont see how Corbetts, at least in my
interpretation is, there may be some things that may
have to be chiseled. I dont want to use the word cut.
They have to be chiseled away so that you can make a
fund a little bit larger for some of the programs that
are very important. I dont know how Onoratos going
to be able to increase those amounts of money
without raising taxes. Take for example, when South
Philadelphia, somebody purchases a property for lets
say two hundred fifty thousand dollars and it was ten
years ago, well the assessments have not been up-todate so that persons paying theyre not paying their
fair share down in south Philly cuz Fumo made sure of
that. You know fast forward that mortgage twenty
years, theyre paying taxes on a property that was
assessed for two hundred fifty thousand dollars which
might be you know six percent or five percent or
whatever it is. But the house now is worth eight
hundred, nine hundred thousand dollars.
RW
Right.
TA
Now you got people in North Philadelphia where

theyre calling it Brewerytown and the houses are two
40 | P a g e
hundred thousand dollars and these people are paying

a much higher percentage. Thats what you gotta look
at. You cant talk about the numbers because you can
make the numbers do anything you want them to do.
RW
(U/I)
TA
Its its the percentage you have are much better grasp
at whats the reality. You know.
RW
Sure sure. Anybody can play a numbers game (U/I).

Its funny you mention that because when he was like
15 or 16, he kind of like wrapped himself around me
when I first ran and came in and introduced himself
and tried to work with me and it got to a point where
he started to frustrate me a little bit because he
started talking about stuff that he didnt know what
he was talking about. And Sharif was real close. The
next thing I know hes sitting around talking about
you know he wants to run against me. Im like ok
come on
TA
Kenyatta right.
RW
No.
TA
Who?
RW
Charles Gibbs.
TA
Oh God no no no. Dont say that name.
RW
He started saying, he tried to position, (U/I) himself

like (U/I).
TA
Oh no no.
RW
(U/I) captain ever. Thats how he got notoriety.
TA
No.
41 | P a g e
RW
He went to law school, he was a law school graduate.
TA
Hes a flunkie man. Thats Sharifs flunkie. Ron look,

you know I consider you a friend. I always have. I
told Frank, I told Michelle. Nobody is going to come
running up against my folks like you cuz I would put
fifty grand up there and I would you know they were
teasing me last week you know you have a lot of rage
in you now. I said no I dont have a lot of rage. Most
of the folks who are leaving office, I have a great deal
of respect for my elders. I always have. I think if you
go to someone and you try to talk to them as opposed
to beating them over the head, especially when they
are not capable of having that fight. The wealth that
people would normally get money from, those wells
have been exhausted. Ok. Kenyatta is lucky that
Williams backed him up.
RW
Right.
TA
(1:39:56) You know and and Williams is lucky to have

Hughes. I mean, I remember when that situation I was
down at the Vault in town when that situation with
Curtis happened and I went over there to talk to
Curtis. I said listen, if you need to send me five
hundred dollars cuz theyre getting ready to fine ya,
as a matter of fact, Vance was representing Curtis at
that time so we had that conversation. then I went
over to City Hall and you have people that work with
the legislatures in their office but they think that they
are in charge of these peoples offices. And I think
when Sharif was over at Shirleys place, he was busy
cutting deals.
RW
Yeah thats why she got rid of him.
TA
She was paying, he was trying to pay off some of his

Daddys debts using her office. Now.
RW
Yup. Exactly.
42 | P a g e
TA
Thats not right.
RW
Right.
TA
Then she had Earl Matthews in there. Thats another

flunkie of his.
RW
Right.
TA
You know, I told (U/I), when was it? Two, three

months ago. I said listen man, I understand youre in
a bad spot. Your uncle aint here. They stuck you
with this. Im telling you Sam Katz is getting ready to
make a move. You know, we already sat down, talked
about it with the folks that are close to him. At some
point, Nutters going to be in a place where he is very
uncomfortable because the folks up on the main line,
the folks down town, theyre going to support one of
their own. Theyre not theyre not going to support
anybody else.
RW
[1:41:21] Well its only because they supported him

the first time that he got elected, but now I think he
lost it, I dont think he can depend on their vote.
TA
Well, are you running, is anybody running against

you?
RW
Mm hmm.
TA
Alright. Do you have what you need?
RW
Im no, not really. I, I got stuff I always need, one of

the things that I always need
TA
Well here. This is for you, okay? Thats a grand.
RW
Okay, my man. One of the things that I always need
TA
I love you like a brother man.
43 | P a g e
RW
I love you too. One of the things that I always need
TA
Just remember me. Im looking for some support and

guidance because we got, we got two projects. I aint
wanna talk about that shit in front of your daughter
cause I know thats not good. But one of the problems
is Louise. This Will Mega situation, its gotta be
controlled because hes looking to do it again.
RW
Oh, Im sure he is.
TA
Alright. So, look now I got back my lobbying license.

Im able to bring even more money to the pot because
I can get money from Trinidad. You know what I
mean? Aint nobody gonna, how the fuck are they
gonna know?
RW
Right. What we need now
TA
Its so good to see you man.
RW
We need (U/I).
TA
Ill tell you something. I missed, I, I missed you but I

needed to clear this shit up.
RW
Yeah.
TA
Before you know what I mean?
RW
Right.
TA
Start making...
RW
(U/I) you always asked me could you be a part of my
TA
Always.
RW
(U/I).
44 | P a g e
TA
On the campaign.
RW
Can you be my campaign manager? Anytime
TA
You remember that?
RW
(U/I).
TA
I was always trying to help.
RW
Well you know what, and I guess for me you know like
I, I caught myself working, um, consistently in a way
where even right now you know after you have a
primary election and you get up to the following day
and the following day passes, you dont have an
opponent. But I hear people say shucks, Im going on
vacation now because you know I aint gotta work for
this stuff for another year.
TA
Aint nobody trying to help me.
RW
But then, but for me my thing is no Im going right, I

work every day like I got an opponent you know and I
run every election like I have an opponent, but Im not
actually going to spend a lot of money like I have an
opponent because money is hard and you cant take it
for granted that you can always raise money. And its
always good to have a war chest.
TA
Always.
RW
Because thats always the deterrent when somebody is

looking for who to run against.
TA
You can always just give them something.
RW
Yeah.
TA
Ill talk to you next time but the other piece when we
were talking about your campaign manager piece and
that was almost two years ago. If you dont have a
45 | P a g e
campaign committee formed yet, I would like to

suggest that you consider me as one of those folks
and Ill tell you why. Because I am representing the
bank, nobody can get the money faster.
Thats
number one. Number two, theyre willing to listen to
me in terms of the projects. Um, you know you can
think about that. But I will be up in Harrisburg a lot
more now.
RW
I havent seen you lately.
TA
Well I havent, you know what, it took such a toll on

me number one. It took me like three months to get
myself back together and then we both out Cambria
Legal Center in Shirleys district cause you know
thats where most of my stuff is, its up there. But I
want to do something down here. Why? Because there
is opportunity here.
RW
Lots of it.
TA
Lots of opportunity.
RW
Oh yeah.
TA
How you, how you hire Ya-Ya? I was shocked when I

seen him. I said, hes one of them Men United boys,
you know they looking at him.
RW
Men United Boys? Downstairs?
TA
Ah hmm.
RW
Howd I find him? I met him one day when I was ahm
going out visiting prisons. He was at one of the
prisons out there.
TA
Yeah he was an inmate.
RW
He was an inmate and I didnt even know him then.

But I happened to go to the cells and I always go to
46 | P a g e
the cells encouraging the guys to come home and get

be law abiding and dont return back to victimizing
people.
TA
Ah ha.
RW
I do that a lot. As a matter of fact, its one of my

passions and ahm and I been working a great deal on
on criticizing they way that the criminal justice
system currently exists.
TA
Ah ha.
RW
And what weve been doing as lawmakers is we come

up with these crazy laws and it only causes more
people to go to jail but we havent done anything to
increase public safety so thats where Im making a
that comparison. Do you feel any safer? No. Guess
what? We locked a whole lot of people up in the last
ten, twenty years and you still dont feel safe. So Ive
been making a comparison that its a systematic new
way of eliminating people from competition with
you cant compete if they are in jail and now they
cant compete if they got a felony on their record.
TA
Jail is a business.
RW
Jail is a business.
TA
And one of the things you know I was just laughing

with Monica. I use to be on the Advisory Board for
Parole and Probation (laughs).
RW
Really?
TA
Yeah.
RW
Get out of here.
TA
Me, Vince, Fansene
47 | P a g e
RW
(U/I) yeah yeah.
TA
Kathy Battle, the whole squad cuz Kathy actually made

me an honorary member for the Guardian Civic
League.
RW
Ok.
TA
And I just got my thirty second degree.
RW
Ok.
TA
You know the other piece was we, Maleek and I, we

had start putting together a program so Tommy was
actually over at his house and we were talking about
raising you know fifteen, twenty thousand dollars to
do one thing and that is to sponsor a GED program for
men and women who have just returned to society
that dont have that. Thats still something Im willing
to look at.
RW
We got to we got to
TA
We could do a pilot program with you.
RW
I would love that.
TA
You know.
RW
We got to figure out how we we engage these people.

We integrate them back into the community ahm when
theyre not feeling locked out and feel as though
theres no hope. And you know, so thats one of the
things because we have been targeting.
We had
targeted for this ahm prison population.
TA
Ah hmm.
RW
And you the state the state was trying to build eight
new prisons. They got enough in a bind to build four
but the goal was to build eight. Thats what they
48 | P a g e
wanted to build. I got this directly from DGS. I was

shocked when I heard. I was shocked when I heard
four but a little while ago I heard the goal was to build
eight and Im like whoa. What does that mean. That
means.
TA
Whos the PC on this or who was the proposed PC?
RW
On on the prison
TA
On the prison piece, yeah.
RW
For me or for the state?
TA
The state.
RW
That
TA
Who was the prime contractor?
RW
They got, right now they got ahm whats this guy
TA
Nicoletti?
RW
Not Nicoletti.
stuff like
TA
Well he built the one round there by Shirley.
RW
But yeah but he trying to build one up the street now.
TA
Ok.
RW
I met with him last Thursday.
TA
Cuz I talked to Jim week before last and thats got

them in a pickle because he laid out like seven, eight
hundred thousand dollars to capture a piece of real
estate close to one of my other buildings.
RW
Right, on Lehigh Ave?
Nicoletti is trying to do some other
49 | P a g e
TA
Yep yep yep and now they mad right cuz Kathy and
Shirley you know, Kathy and Shirley aint gonna see
eye to eye on the on the size of anything.
RW
Right right.
TA
Kathy tried to put one over on Shirley and you know

that aint happening.
RW
No.
TA
Shirley aint gonna let that happen.
RW
No.
TA
Henry is not gonna let that happen.
RW
Right.
TA
So I told Kathy, I said look the biggest thing you can

do is to go back to her and say Senator look, I
delivered a message in its original content.
RW
Ok.
TA
I didnt modify it as a matter of fact. I was so anxious

to speak with you about it, I didnt carefully consider
the content of the message.
RW
Ok.
TA
Talk to the woman.
RW
Yeah.
TA
You know everybody knows you know I know Shirley

like the back of my hand now.
RW
Right right.
50 | P a g e
TA
You know, you got to talk to her because the minute

she thinks youre trying to bully her, that is the wrong
thing to think for her.
RW
(U/I).
TA
No.
RW
Shell come up one side of you and down the other.
TA
Man look, I laugh. I laugh. Ron, I swear to God I got a

headache from laughing David Oh is now over there
by Zarwin Baum right cuz he thinks hes going to be
council. That aint gonna happen. I remember when
when he was running
RW
He ran the last time.
TA
Yeah but see nobody is interested in putting him

anywhere. He will not make peace with Chinese,
thats number one. Him and Glenn Hing (sp) do not
see eye to eye. Him and Jack Kong dont see eye to
eye. Him and Mon Soon Park, the other Korean guy,
they dont see eye to eye. So when you dont see eye
to eye and Im not grouping all Asians together even
though they do look all alike, he dont see eye to eye
with his own folks. Theyre not going to vote for him.
RW
Right.
TA
You know, he might get the people who own who own
the Laundromats, stuff like that the restaurants and
all that but how many people are we talking about ten.
RW
Yeah.
TA
RW
And a lot of them only live in Philly.
TA
I took him to go see Shirley. Man she blasted him out

51 | P a g e
of that office.
RW
Oh yeah.
TA
And I felt badly because I told him, I said David,

youre gonna need the vote in North Philadelphia to
bring to bring you into a place where you are running
at large. At least I will help you bridge that gap with
the senator here so at least you can have a
conversation that makes sense.
RW
Right.
TA
And his thing was ok, lets go. So we go up there and

what does he start talking about? How great Governor
Ridge is. Oh.
RW
Oh
TA
Oh Lord. Do you know what I mean? That thats not

because Ridge hooked him up with Elaine Chow.
Elaine Chow was his girl when Bush was in office.
RW
Right.
TA
You know what I mean, so you cant say things even if

thats what youre thinking, man. You went to law
school. Relax. You know, so dont dont dont but
you know this is the problem with most lawyers right.
They think theyre the smartest guys in the room, you
know.
RW
They were trained that way.
TA
It actually their ego is trained that way, not

necessarily them cuz Ive seen a few of them try to
make it in the real world. It does not happen. It some
of them like Charles Gibbs for example.
RW
Oh yeah.
52 | P a g e
TA
Sharif Street. Perfect example.
RW
(U/I).
TA
(U/I) Matthews. Perfect example. I told Sharif, I said

listen man, this is me and you talking man. We came
up almost together.
RW
Right.
TA
Why dont you cut your hair and then that other fool,
that Tommy St. Hill got running around with him
trying to oust Curtis. You aint gonna oust Curtis.
RW
Yeah, Louise Tynes.
TA
Yeah cut your hair. Look presentable, wear a tie

sometimes. Try, wear a suit that doesnt look like
youre going to Saturday Night Fever. Cmon (laughs).
Isnt it true though?
RW
Yeah.
TA
It is true.
RW
Reeses whole presentation was bad. First of all, he

was wearing a suit that didnt fit him and (U/I).
TA
(U/I) daddys clothes.
RW
(U/I) (laughing)
TA
(U/I) daddys clothes (laughing).
RW
(U/I) trying to present to the public man.
TA
A rebel with no cause.
RW
Yeah.
TA
No cause whatsoever.
53 | P a g e
RW
Hes gotta get his act together. You know, so, but that
ego thing was definitely something that was a
problem for him and ahm, I can imagine a problem for
Charles
TA
I sent him a client from Venezuela, Sharif, when he

was over at Wolf Block. Nice looking girl. Thirty-five
but shes loaded right. I said you know what Im
gonna hook you with this just talk to her because they
were involved with those check cashing businesses
right. She walked into his office and because of the
disarray that was there, she didnt even bother
speaking to him.
RW
Really?
TA
Really.
RW
He was with Wolf, what was it Wolf?
TA
He was with Wolfblock at the time.
RW
Yeah he invited me down there to, he was doing the

ah pay day loans.
TA
Yes, there you go.
RW
Yeah.
TA
Check cashing business.
RW
(U/I) yeah, check cashing.
TA
I didnt want to mention it you know, try to have some

level of a of mystery but.
RW
That hurt him when he ran too. Cuz people brought

that up, which hurt Tom Knox too.
TA
Well you know.

54 | P a g e
RW
Tom Knox made a lot of money off that (U/I).
TA
Tom Tom and one other guy named Adrian Rubin.

Rubin is a mastermind. He is brilliant. He doesnt
care about anybodys feelings. He is there to do one
thing. Increase his own value. Thats it. And Tom
Knox has enough money. Tom dont care. He said if
Sam dont run, hes going to run again. Whats he
gonna spend this time, twenty million?
RW
He got it. Its amazing how those guys have that kind
of money. I think he went and spent ten million the
last year.
TA
Yeah.
RW
He did.
TA
Well we live around the corner from him so he just

bought a place for seven million and ah the one guy
was saying his his his ah his butler, the little Mexican
boy with the sombrero right. Im in the right (laughs).
RW
(U/I).
TA
Don Carlos. I dont know if hes illegal or not, but he

saw me and he (U/I) came over. I said whats the
matter. He said ah Mr. Knox you know, hes having a
party at the Union League. So well probably go to
that.
RW
Ok.
TA
You know but.
RW
I mean, we have to see, I mean we havent, I dont

know if anybody could beat Nutter right now.
Somebody should be out there. I mean, you cant I
mean what is the problem, the election is only months
away. And they its next May. (U/I) we dont we have
55 | P a g e
no clear candidate thats running for mayor. None.

TA
Sid Booker. Let me tell you something. Sid Booker.

Duckie. He, Nutter and Duckie fell out. Nutter and
Sid fell out. So I dont know who is going to vote for
them.
RW
Nutter and Duckie fell out?
TA
Absolutely.
RW
Oh yeah.
TA
They had a bad falling out.
RW
Yeah cuz the mayor, the mayor did something to

offend him. I cant think of what it was.
TA
I forgot now what it is but it was a big deal.
RW
Yeah.
TA
It was a big deal. You cant how you going to upset

Duckie.
RW
Right.
TA
Come on now. Yeah. If it was Bob (U/I), I would

understand that fool. But Duckie, no man, you cant
do that. You know.
RW
(U/I).
TA
How about this young boy Keith trying to run against

Brady and now the talk in the land is that Sulvio is
about to make that run and he might be running at
large but the word around town is that he might
actually be running against Curtis.
RW
Thats what I heard.
56 | P a g e
TA
But now I see. I already told Curtis, I said you know

were here for you.
RW
Right.
TA
You know.
RW
Curtis told me that too. That they got Sulvio is

looking. He works for Bob Brady.
TA
Yeah yeah he work down in DC.
RW
Right.
TA
And I told, I said man, listen, were smoking a cigar.

We are over there at Mahogany right. I said what is
the problem. Why are you looking to do this. All
youre going to do is anger and isolate people you
know. I dont see where the logic lies and again.
RW
(U/I) He said something named Keith is running

against Bob. Not Keith
TA
Yeah. You got it. Dr. Keith (U/I).
RW
Yeah.
TA
Hes getting ready to do it again.
RW
Hes gonna do it again.
TA
Hes going to do it again.
RW
Cuz I thought Bob, because Bob has his way of buying

people out. You know. Hell get to you. Hell offer
you something to get out of the race, because he I
dont think he wanted to deal with Keith.
TA
He couldnt.
RW
Keith got this presence about him man.

57 | P a g e
TA
Well.
RW
He got a lot of people ready to But he left a lot of

people hanging when he dropped out the race. He left
a lot of people hanging.
TA
Well can I just say this to you.
RW
Uh huh.
TA
Ive known Keith for many years. The way that Keith
developed his following is that he use to throw parties
while he was in medical school. You know I had a
piece of a club up in Torresdale and Keith and I would
see each other all the time at different venues. Thats
how he started getting the vote out. Ahm it was all
young people and they were all over twenty one.
RW
(1:56:46) Yeah right he had a lot of young followers.
TA
The other.
RW
Ready to go to work for him. They dont care nothing

about Bob Brady.
TA
No. And and at the end of the day, you also have one
another gentleman. Elvin Ross was, hes going to be a
problem. He is bright but he has no charisma at all.
But you know some guys theyre just so bright they
dont need charisma.
RW
Whos he going to work for?
TA
I dont know yet but I will I will know in about a week

or so you know. Richie Hoy is running for traffic
court. Marnie is running for traffic court. I I told
Marnie, I said sweetheart, this Shes ahm Donnas
daughter up in Frankford up there. I said up in
Rhawnhurst or wherever it is. I told her, I said look, if
you want to run for traffic court, you should not be
58 | P a g e
running for traffic court because you need a job. You

should be running for the position of a traffic court
judge because you would like to make a difference in
the way Philadelphia dispenses justice for people who
have traffic or moving violations.
RW
And
TA
Thats it.
RW
And thats a good reason for running.
TA
You know not because you need a job cuz she just lost
her job.
RW
Thats what the guy.
TA
You know.
RW
- who won the last time. He ran cuz he needed a job.

the one with all the eleven thousand dollar suits.
TA
My boy Willie.
RW
Willie Singletary.
TA
(Laughs). Yeah. Sounds like I know all the bad people,

right Veronica?
RW
Ah hmm.
RW
(U/I) ran for judge and won.
TA
And won.
RW
He won because he got the number one slot.
TA
Ah hmm.
RW
Thats how he won. He automatically.
59 | P a g e
TA
Whoever is first.
RW
(U/I).
TA
You got it.
RW
You get votes automatically but he got away with it

because if they would have exposed the fact that he
owed eleven thousand dollars, he had what fifty five
unpaid moving violation tickets and while he was
campaigning, hes riding on his motorcycle. I mean
like they would show him on cameras riding his
motorcycle with his group to go out and campaign
and this guy dont have a drivers license.
TA
(Laughs).
RW
How you going to be a judge.
TA
As wrong as the day is long.
RW
How you gonna find anybody guilty cuz you gonna

find a person who got one ticket guilty they hey how
you gonna find me guilty? Im better than you. How
does he find anybody guilty. But they let theyve
seated him. Because the guy who came in second
place didnt contest it, I think it was Wayne John. I
think Wayne John was next in line and I think.
TA
Karens husband, Wayne?
RW
Yeah.
TA
Ok.
RW
Right, the judges husband.
TA
Hes another fool. (Laughs).
RW
If he wouldve contested it, it mightve made it had to

go to trial to see if this guy was qualified and he
60 | P a g e
obviously wasnt. Theres no way that he shouldve

been allowed I dont have no problem with Willie
Singletary
TA
No no no no no.
RW?
(U/I).
TA
Whats out there?
RW
What you dont.
TA
Whats out there?
RW
How you gonna be a judge? How you going to convict

anybody. You got to let everybody go because you
owe eleven thousand dollars.
TA
Hes litmus standard for not what you should not be a

judge.
RW
Exactly. How you gonna be a judge? Thats like a

bank robber who got you know whos been robbing all
these banks. Nobody knew it until after he got to be a
municipal judge or Common Pleas judge that he
robbed a bank. How you gonna sit up there and be a
judge? You know what I mean?
TA
The the other piece with Willie is the fact that were
sure if if hes questioned on that again, hes going to
have some problems.
RW
No (U/I).
TA
And Im gonna tell you something. You see the PUC is

in trouble right now because of that indictment with
John Perzel right? So they got some problems. They
got all these illegal boys driving around in taxi cabs
and all kinds of stuff like that but look at the situation
with the Sheriffs sister-in-law. Thats crazy. She lost
her job.
61 | P a g e
RW
Yeah.
TA
You know. Stop fixing tickets.
RW
(U/I).
TA
Yeah you know it.
RW
But she asked for the investigation.
TA
That cost her her job. (Laughs).
RW
She asked for the investigation.
TA
Dont say it like that Ron.
RW
She did. She called up and said I want you to come

investigate my staff and then when they, I say all the
time Ali. When I worked for the parking authority,
people would call up and say that ahm we need yall
to come and enforce whatever the area was right. So
the person calls up. We listen, we listen. Alright.
Well send an officer out there. They call back two
hours later, hey you gave me a ticket. You know what
I mean? I aint mean my car. You know what I mean?
What you mean. You asked for the parking authority,
you get what you ask for. You asked for enforcement,
they not gonna come around and do selective
enforcement. Theyre investigate all the problems
and they write the tickets accordingly. Thats what
Glenn Reese did. She asked for the investigation
thinking that they would not gonna look at
everything. They got, she was, she was the most
prominent person and perpetual person in doing
ticket fixing. And now she moved somewhere. She
was in West Philly, she sold her house. She called me
for a couple nights to help her to get a job. I (U/I).
TA
Could you imagine that.
62 | P a g e
RW
Making a hundred thousand dollars. I dont know a

place thats gonna give you that kind of money first of
all. Next you are hot right now. I mean this was right
after she got fired. You all over the papers. Im not
gonna make any phone calls. And you know this is.
TA
Yep.
RW
Why would you even ask me. She lived around the
corner. We grew up together. She lived on 61st and
Samson.
Her father moved with her.
Hes he
remained there until his wife died but I knew her
brothers. We use to work at (U/I) Mercy, and I know
her sister. She stayed there too until the sheriff
moved her out too. What, Mt. Airy they livin now?
TA
Mt. Airy yeah. And the sheriff, hes real sick.
RW
Yeah.
TA
You know and look at this little situation they got

going on with Jewell.
RW
Yeah.
TA
Because Zarwin Baums raising money for him. You

know David Oh is up to that and Norm Zarwin thinks
hes a king maker now since Lenny Claire is no longer
there. But the situation with Jewell, I mean I dont
know man. I really dont know.
RW
(U/I) also running.
TA
Not that boy Untermeyer. Not him again.
RW
Not him again. No. Not Untermeyer.
TA
Cuz he Greg could not get it.
RW
Somebody else mentioned somebody. But he tried to

run against the incumbent Sheriff. I mean you wait
63 | P a g e
till theres an open shot.

TA
Yep and then you make your move.
RW
Wait your turn until theres an open spot.
TA
There you go.
RW
You work there already. Thats when you make your

move. Dont try to run against John because nobody
had a problem with John. You know so now Jewell
wants it. He didnt want the appointment. Ahm but
ahm you know he wants to run. I dont know if he
could win or not.
TA
Hes never going to get the vote that can be captured

by Barbara Dailey. Thats number one. Number two.
RW
Thats what Carol wanted to get.
TA
Ah hmm.
RW
Carol, I think Carol Campbell wanted that woman to

get it.
TA
Ah hmm. This what happens when you aint seen

somebody in a year and a half. You just talk about
everything.
RW
Ah hmm. (U/I).
TA
Do not eat the Twix. Do not eat the Twix.
RW
(U/I).
TA
Ok. You on a diet? Ok. Seafood diet. See candy diet.

Ok.
RW
(U/I).
TA
(Laughs). Al Sharpton looks like hes losing a massive

64 | P a g e
amount of weight.
RW
Hes lost a lot of weight.
TA
Looks like hes sick.
RW
Yeah.
TA
He looks like hes sick.
RW
(U/I).
TA
I should have come to the damn picnic. I forget when

it was.
RW
(U/I).
TA
Oh my. You and Reverend Al.
RW
(U/I).
RW
Hes got this Barbara Daily. Shes right there.
TA
Shes under. Yeah she was. She was the under sheriff.
But she was his chief of staff.
RW
Right.
TA
That was her official title.
RW
Right.
TA
But heres the other piece that bothers me. If Jewell

makes this run, hes going to open up that office to
scrutiny. Im telling you this from me. You know I
know.
RW
Right.
TA
Im telling you. Hes gonna open up the office to

scrutiny. So whoever is going to run against Jewell
65 | P a g e
may get more financial support than Jewell.

should have taken the appointment.
He
RW
Yeah.
TA
You know because you know that office has been long
a target of the city controllers office.
RW
Right.
TA
And you got to pay attention to those things.
RW
Right.
TA
You have to pay attention to those things.
RW
(U/I) make it ah they really want to eliminate it and

just make it appointment by the sheriff. I mean by
the mayor.
TA
Its kind of crazy.
RW
Yeah.
TA
Write your cell phone number down here for me so.

Ill call you on Monday cuz Ill be up in Harrisburg.
RW
Ill be up there Monday. I got a
TA
You going to the thing at the steel workers?
RW
Oh I dont know. I dont normally go to the one before

the general but I might go this time.
TA
Im gonna be up there.
RW
You gonna be there?
TA
State and thanks. I talk to.
RW
Thats the same one.

66 | P a g e
TA
Yeah.
RW
Yesterday (U/I) asked if I would go with him.
TA
Yeah well last night I was with his niece. I was with
Ivy cuz she getting ready to be
RW
She running too?
TA
Yeah.
RW
What, at large?
TA
No no no no. Commissioner. Election commissioner

(U/I).
RW
Right.
TA
Now now poor thing. Shes twenty five years old and
is as cute as a button, right? She aint got no clue. No
clued.
RW
(U/I) and, and Sam
TA
I told her last night.
RW
Sam was saying too, he dont know about that.
TA
Yeah.
RW
You cant decide you want to run
TA
Want to run against Marge. Come on now.
RW
Run against Marge. Run against Anthony.
TA
Anthony.
RW
And its going to be, she cant run against a republican

so it gonna be one of them two. Anthony Clark or
67 | P a g e
Marge.
TA
Well if she puts Anthonys bad habits out there, shes

got a chance.
RW
(U/I).
TA
RW
I know Anthony very well.
TA
You know hes got a couple bad habits.
RW
Sure. Everybody does.
TA
Ok.
RW
You know Anthony.
TA
Yeah right so if she.
RW
He ran twice. And thats the problem. (U/I) and the

first time he ran, he dropped out and (U/I).
TA
Edgar yeah yeah yeah yeah.
RW
And ahm then it took took a deal to pay off his debt
not even realizing he was gonna win. And he won
even though he wasnt even running anymore. He
was still on the ballot and he came in number one.
TA
I always say people like that name Anthony.
RW
Yeah, Anthony and Clark I mean. We just had the
TA
Sounds like Daryl or Gussy Clark.
RW
Yeah and Daryl Clark (U/I) I just know that this light
bulb is is it in there? Theres no bulb in there at all.
UF
The way that chair turns.

68 | P a g e
RW
Yeah. Oh yeah here it is. Over here (U/I).
UF
Do you want me to go get a light bulb? Where they at?
RW
Yeah, you dont know. I dont know either.
UF
Oh.
RW
I got to look for them.
UF
(U/I). Somebody downstairs right now.
RW
Im going to put one of those um, long lasting light

bulbs up there.
TA
The ones from GE are the best.
RW
Which ones like these?
TA
Ah ha.
RW
Yeah. They do last a long time.
TA
They do. They last a long time.
RW
They last a long time.
UF
(U/I). I gotta get ready for (U/I).
RW
Yeah, I gotta get ready, I got an appointment at 12
TA
Me too. In about twenty minutes.
RW
(U/I). Yeah, all the way up in Germantown.
UF
Oh gosh.
RW
Yeah.
TA
Use your brains to break the chains.

69 | P a g e
RW
Yeah thats what I tell you. Thats my thing man. Im

telling (U/I).
TA
You just bumped me on purpose. Dont you try it.

Shes trying to injure me Ron. See that? She trying to
injure me.
RW
This is my baby girl. This is my first born here man.
TA
(2:08:14) I know.
RW
Yeah. People cant believe, I cant believe shes her

age. I mean cuz Im looking at wait a minute, am I
(U/I). Slow down baby girl. Slow down.
TA
Its amazing all the things that are taking place.
RW
Sounds good, man.
TA
All the time.
RW
All the time.

[2:08:32]
TA
Look its good seeing you brother.
RW
Yeah.
TA
I will. I will call you Monday.
RW
Alright.
TA
Alright? And then well try to see what we think
RW
We got to just have meetings every now and then.
TA
And lets figure out. Sure, and just figure out what
makes sense for us. You know?
70 | P a g e
RW
Alright. Alright. Ok.
TA
If I could find if I
RW
He, he, I see him up in Harrisburg. He said, Whos

running your campaign?
I want to be on your
campaign. He always offer to help out.
RWs
Um hmm.
daughter
RW
Every time I would see him.
TA
Im one of those people I like to help people. I always

do.
RW
Do you have a card with you?
TA
You know what, I dont. But I will make sure I bring

one for you.
RW
(U/I).
TA
I have your number.
RW
Let me put your phone number in
TA
Oh, oh sure. Its 215, 215, 868. Here let me write it

down for you.
RW
Ok. (U/I).
TA
Can I write it on here Ron?
RW
Yeah.
TA
Can I write it right here?

[2:09:24]
UF
(U/I).
71 | P a g e
RW
Oh yeah. That what happens with me too.
UF
You know what I heard.

The other thing about
wearing their pants down that I was trying to get out
to the guys. I put it on my facebook page but they
were saying that in jail too not just because they took
the belt from them, but it (U/I).
TA
Because youre taken.
RW
Yeah right.
TA
Right. Youre not taken.
UF
And I was like some of these guys knew that means.
RW
Thats what it means.
UF
Hey if you are available, you know they think its

because of the belt and they make you look tough.
RW
Thats why they say (U/I). You got to figure out why
somebody looking at your butt.
You should be
questioning that. Youre showing it off. You know
what I mean.
UF
Yes.
RW
Some of those guys man.
TA
All the young boys who are crazy.

soon.
RW
Alright.
TA
Its good seeing you as always.
RW
Good seeing you man.
TA
Alright. Ill talk to you soon.

72 | P a g e
Ill talk to you
RW
We gotta keep in touch, okay?
TA
Ill call you on Monday.
RW
Ok.
TA
Ill be around.
RW
Alright.
TA
Ill be around.
RW
Alright.
TA
Monica, did you drive down?
UF
Huh.
TA
Did you drive down?
RW
Did you drive down?
TA
Did you drive down or you need a ride up?
UF
Oh no I drove.
TA
Ok. Ron, Ill see you soon. Ill call you Monday.
Alright hon. Bye-bye. See that. Told you my friends
dont forget me. Good seeing you (U/I).
RW
(U/I).
TA
Take good care. (U/I).
UM
Assalamualaikum.
TA
Walaikum salam. How you doing?
RW
Fine. You?
73 | P a g e
TA
Good.
TA makes phone call to SSSA Thomas.
TA
(2:12:19) Hey sir, how are you?

Good. Are you, where are you?
Ok.
Im leaving the office now. He took the money.
Said thank you.
He took the money. All of it and said thank you.
And it was a very good conversation.
Im, Im at 60th and Market. So do you want to meet
and 30th and Market?
Or, where is good for you?
Thats good?>
Ok.
Alright. Ill see you at 30th and Market. Ill be there in
about fif, ten, fifteen minutes.
Ok, we can meet even closer to that then. If if you.
Yeah. Let me, let me see wheres an easy, easyplace.
Ahmm, right there at. I just want to clear her. You
know what, 30th and Market is fine.
Ill see you right there. Alright then. Thank you. Byebye.
CT
(2:13:25) Let me do that first.

This is Senior Supervisory Special Agent Claude
Thomas deactivating tape again on todays date being
Friday, October 22, 2010, current time is twelve noon
exactly. Tape being deactivated.
74 | P a g e
T-12 November 8, 2010

This is Claude Thomas, Senior Supervisory Special Agent, Pennsylvania
Office of Attorney General. Badge #118, A-Certification #A-1418. Will be
making a consensual intercept between CI 2010-01 and State
Representative Ronald Waters. Todays date is Monday, November 8,
2010. Time is 14:06 pm. The number to be dialed is area code (267)
246-6185. Call will be made at this time.
RW
TA
RW
TA
RW
TA
Hello. (U/I background noise).

Hey Ron how are you doing?
Ok. Hold one minute. Hold on.
Yeah, sure. Go ahead.
(U/I background noise)
Hey there sir. How are you doing? I didnt catch up with you
on Sat Hello?
[call dropped] [TA places another call to the number]
RW
SSSAT
TA
Your call has been forwarded to an automatic voice messaging

system
Maybe U/I call him back.
Try the number again?
[TA places another call to the number]
RW
TA
Your call has been forwarded to an automatic voice messaging

system.
Hes in a place where there are a lot of people. I could hear it.
Call being, tape being deactivated at this time.
1 | Page
T-23 December 8, 2010

This is Senior Supervisory Special Agent Claude Thomas, PA Office of
Attorney General. Badge #118, A-Certification #A-1418. Todays date is
Wednesday, December 8, 2010. Current time is 16:28 hundred hours.
About to make a consensual intercept between CI#2010-01 and R.W. at
(267) 246-6185 in reference to investigation #36-622. Uh this recording
would be a, a will be made at this time.
(PAUSE UNTIL 2:53)

RW
[2:53] Yes. Yes.
TA
Hey Ron?
RW
Hey.
TA
Hey, its Tyron. How are you doing sir?
RW
Hey, how you feeling my brother?
TA
Good. Good man. I, uh, I was actually up in Harrisburg and I

was trying to figure out if you might have been up there or not.
I tried calling your office earlier but, uh, I couldnt get through
where I was where I was, uh, driving. Are you up there any
time this week?
RW
Uh, no. Unless they get my car fixed, um, I, but, other than
that I dont plan on being up there. They got two more days
man. I still have this car they loaned to me about a month ago
now.
TA
Mmm.
RW
Problem, problem with them getting my car back to me. Uh

cause I had a, um, a little damage to my bumper. Nothing
major.
TA
Mm hmm
RW
They had to replace -- had to replace the bumper just some

scrapes on it. And there was something else that lit up on my
dashboard they had to look into. I dont know if they had to
order some parts and thats the delay. But, um, but anyway so
you still up there?
1 | Page
TA
No, we came back down this morning. From what I

understand, um, either Friday afternoon before 2:00 or
Monday morning the committee assignments are going to be
handed out.
RW
Ok.
TA
Have you heard that?
RW
Um, no. But, you know I dont know when they are going to be
handed out. I can find out. Yeah, I, I dont know what
committees Im gonna get on.
TA
But, remember what we talked about.
RW
Right. Ok.
TA
This guy, um, there, there may be a new uh, I, I believe he was
a member at one point. You, you remember the Italian guy.
Whats his name Dante Santoni?
RW
Yeah. Hes on Gaming Oversight.
TA
Yeah. Um, he, uh, he may actually be, uh, one of the folks on,
on that on that committee that we talked about.
RW
Hes the chairman on the Gaming Oversight Committee.
TA
Um, what Ive talked I understand that. Were talking about

the other committee.
RW
Ok.
TA
You know? He might be, uh, might be over there. Im not sure
yet. So, on Monday I will know more. Do you, uh, do you
foresee being up in Harrisburg anytime next week?
RW
I hope they have my car ready. [5:27] Its too late for me to call
them right now to see whats going on, but I hope if they have
my car ready Monday Ill go up there. It dont matter, whatever
day my cars ready Im going up there to get my car back and,
um, give them back this loaner car.
2 | Page

TA
Ok.
RW
(5:40) I have no way of knowing when its gonna be. But, right
now were planning, the plan is to be up there Wednesday
because, um, the Black Caucus is gonna have the election of
the ordinance.
TA
Right.
RW
So, I, I have it scheduled for Wednesday. Thats the only, um,

thing that I know about right now. The day I know about right
now that Ill be up there.
TA
Besides, uh, besides the normal folks whose name will appear
undoubtedly in the hat, do you think anybody else might be
looking for, uh, might be looking for a leadership post?
RW
The leadership post is already gone.
TA
No. I mean in terms of a Black Caucus, Im not talking about

the party.
RW
Whoa, whoa, whoa, um, well
TA
Cuz I hear from what I understand Im talking to the guy

whos gonna be the guy. Ha ha ha ha
RW
Oh, ok. Well Ive already been voted.
TA
Ok.
RW
My position was already voted on. (6:36) They elected me as

chair. They just didnt elect the other people. Because when
the when the thing went down with, with Dwight Evans, um,
everybody was told just you know surprise that nobody, um,
really you know like nominated anybody else for any other
positions and voted on it. So, we might just keep it the way it
is.
TA
And I whole heartedly agree. People are looking for people who
they can trust and who they feel, um, can present their
agendas in the best possible way. In addition to that their
looking for someone that, uh, thats a familiar face. And God
knows you youve been that. You know?
3 | Page
RW
Oh yeah. Yeah. I tried too. I tried to register as a pompous

ass, or an extremist, or as a terrorist, or a racist. You know
what I mean? We want the U/I thats going to be at the table.
Thats all.
TA
I hear ya. Alright, so let me let me ask you let me do this, do

you want me to call you Wednesday morning see where you
are.
RW
Ok
TA
Or Tuesday afternoon. Maybe Ill call you Tuesday afternoon

and, uh, well see if we can get together up in Harrisburg on
Wednesday. You know? Cuz there will be some re-shuffling at
the last minute and I want to make.
RW
(7:54) Ok. Ok.
TA
How are you doing otherwise, everything alright?
RW
Yeah, its all good man. All good. Going to New York over the
weekend.
TA
How was that?
RW
The, uh, Pennsylvania, um, Society weekend event you know

they have every year up there.
TA
I know, but, uh, I dont know who goes but I know that one
year Seidel had gone. I was invited to go, but I never made it.
RW
He goes. He, he definitely went when he was gonna be a

candidate for mayor. Thats when
TA
Yes
RW
People go
TA
Yes, yes to raise that money.
RW
Yeah
4 | Page

TA
[8:33] To raise money. I told you the two, the two clients that
were representing now theyre both out of New York. You
know what I mean? Thats why when I tell you, uh, money is
not really our primary concern it really isnt. You know? Its
not our primary concern.
RW
Ok. Good.
TA
You know? The, uh, the other piece that I wanted to ask yet
and Im not sure if this is going to come up or not, but, uh,
how, I really havent gotten your thoughts - and we can talk
about this on Wednesday - but it seems like the more its being
discussed the more its being accepted and thats the
privatization of the stores.
RW
Well, the, um, what Ive been hearing is that its, its, its pretty
much gonna be a done deal, and you know, theres going to be
a lot of people in favor of it, um, so its, its thats why they feel
its gonna be a done deal. Now I know we havent gotten any
pushbacks yet from the union.
TA
Mm hmm.
RW
But I know, I know its gonna come.
TA
Well let me ask you this, while I do have you on the phone and
were sort of talked about it, can you talk to Wendell?
RW
Well, sure.
TA
Ok. Because their you know what their concern is. Their
concern is that 3,000 workers out of their local 1776 are gonna
windup either unemployed or displaced and that is simply not
the case. Not with the, uh, not with the proposition that were
gonna push. You know? Um, Ive outlined a carefully thought
out plan in terms of retraining, uh, health care benefits, a
living wage, uh, other types of benefits. When I see you on
Wednesday well talk about it some more. But, uh, Ron Ill tell
you something: if this thing becomes private, if, if this really
does happen, um, we will be quite happy. And by we, I mean
us. You know what I mean?
RW
Ok.
5 | Page

TA
Itll work well for, for us. Um, I will, I will call you Tuesday
afternoon and, uh, and Ill hopefully - you know what time are
you going up to Harrisburg? You think youll go up there
Wednesday morning?
RW
Uh, absolutely.
TA
Alright.
RW
Absolutely.
TA
Ill call, Ill call you Tuesday afternoon and then after youre
finished Ill a, Ill a give you a call and well see if we can hook
up on, uh, Wednesday afternoon or Wednesday morning
whichevers better for you.
RW
Ok.
TA
Alright, my friend. Talk to you soon.
RW
Alright, you take care, brother.
TA
Alright
RW
Bye-bye
[11:16]
Tape is being deactivated, tape is being deactivated at this time again on

todays date Wednesday, December 8, 2010. Time is 16:39 hundred
hours.
6 | Page
This is Senior Supervisory Special Agent Claude Thomas, badge

number 118, A certification number is A-1418, about to make a
consensual intercept to RW. The number to be called is his office
and that number is area code (717) 772-9850. Intercept will be
made between RW and CI 2010-01 on todays date being
Wednesday, December 15, 2010. Time is 10:48 hundred hours.
The call will be made at this time.
TA
SSSAT
RW
=
=
=
Consenting Party
Senior Supervisory Special Agent Claude Thomas
Ron Waters
???
Representative Waters Office. April speaking.
TA
Hi.
This is Tyron Ali.
Can I speak with the
representative please. I was just on the phone with
him.
???
Uh, hold on please.
TA
Thank you dear.
RW
[2:11] (U/I).
TA
Hey Ron.
RW
Hi.
TA
Im here now.
RW
Ok.
TA
Is twelve oclock good for you in your office?
RW
Yeah.
TA
Alright.
RW
Yeah.
1 | Page
TA
You, what, what, what is your address over, I know

youre in the Irvis Building.
RW
Ah.
TA
What floor is it and the number.
RW
What is my, what is it 328 (U/I).
???
Yeah.
RW
328 yeah.
TA
Room 328 in the Irvis Building.
RW
Ah huh.
TA
Alright. Ill see you at twelve oclock sir.
RW
Ok.
TA
Thanks. Good bye.
RW
Bye.
SSSAT
Tape being deactivated at this time, 10:51 hundred

hours.
2 | Page
1
2
PENNSYLVANIA OFFICE OF THE ATTORNEY GENERAL

DISTRICT ATTORNEY'S OFFICE
3 Penn Square
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania 19107-3499
5
6
7
8
9
Investigation #: 36-662
10
11
12
Transcription of audio file: T-28 December 15, 2010
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
Transcribed by:
21
Brenda Pardun, RPR, Court Reporter and Notary Public
(December 15, 2010)
2
3
AGENT CLAUDE THOMAS:
Pennsylvania Office of
Attorney General, badge number is 118, A
certification number A1418.
This device is being activated to record
consensual conversation between R.W. and
CI-2010-01.
Today's date is Wednesday, December the 15th,
10
2010.
Current time is 1153 hundred hours.
11
be deactivated by myself at a later time.
This tape will
12
(Pause from 00:37 to 01:05.)
13
This is Claude Thomas, senior supervisory
14
special agent, Pennsylvania Office of Attorney
15
General, badge number is 118.
16
number is A1418.
17
A certification
This device is being placed on CI-2010-01,
18
on today's date, being Wednesday, December 12th,
19
year 2010.
Current time is 1154 hours.
20
(Pause from 01:35 to 13:03.)
21
TYRON ALI:
Thanks.
Thank you.
Hey, Joel.
JOEL:
TYRON ALI:
How are you?
Hanging in.
(13:16)
(13:16)
afternoon.
know I'm actually here?
Yeah, hi.
This is Tyron Ali.
Could you let Ron
Thank you.
(Pause from 13:38 to 14:30.)
TYRON ALI:
No, I'm just waiting.
(Pause from 14:36 to 15:44.)
11
TYRON ALI:
(phone call)
12
outside room 328.
13
wait inside or wait outside?
14
18
19
Okay.
Oh, sure.
Hi.
I'm actually
Do you want me to (15:52)
No problem.
Thank you.
Bye-bye.
16
17
Thank
you.
10
15
Good
Oh, hi.
you.
How are you?
Tyron Ali.
Thank
Nice to meet you.

FEMALE 1:
to meet you.
Danielle -- (inaudible) -- nice
He's right next door.
20
TYRON ALI:
21
FEMALE 1:
Okay.
You can have a seat right here.
1
2
TYRON ALI:
you.
No, I'm okay.
Thank you.
Thanks.
Thank you. Okay.
(16:25)
(Pause from 16:25 to 17:37.)
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
Hey there, sir.

Im alright.
How are you?

You got the bow tie on.
Oh, youre going to start teasing me,
too?
8
9
Thank
RON WATERS:
kiddin?
No, man.
I love bow ties. Are you
I love bow ties, man.
10
TYRON ALI:
11
RON WATERS:
12
TYRON ALI:
How's it going?
I used to wear them all the time.
You know what, I'll give (17:56)
13
you a deal.
One of my friends grabbed it, not this
14
one but another one, and said, Man, that's a
15
clip-on.
16
I said, No, this is not our ties.
17
How's it going?
18
RON WATERS:
19
You tie that?
20
TYRON ALI:
21
RON WATERS:
Good.
Oh, yeah.
Um-hum.
That's as good as a clip on.
That
why he thought it was.
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:
clip-ons.
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:
10
(18:12)
(18:12)
It's perfect.
[laughing] Thank you.

We used to wear -- I used to wear
I never learned how to tie them.
Right.
One of these days I'll show you.

Yeah.
Yeah.
I appreciate that,
because I would love tying my tie myself, man.

love wearing bow ties.
11
TYRON ALI:
12
RON WATERS:
13
over.
14
-- he stepped down.
15
Brownlee.
[18:24]
How did things go this morning?

Good.
The election is
Everybody moved around except for Jake.
16
TYRON ALI:
17
RON WATERS:
He's
He made room for Michelle
Can I borrow one of these?

Yeah.
She's now the secretary.
18
And Vanessa is the vice-chair.
19
treasurer.
Kenyatta will be
And --
20
TYRON ALI:
21
RON WATERS:
How did that happen?

I don't know he was selected -- he
never said he wanted it.
it, so thats how come her name came up, and nobody said
anything, so she got it, because Kenyatta wanted it
but he never said anything.
5
6
7
8
9
TYRON ALI:
Vanessa had expressed interest in
So, Kenyatta's going to wind up
being the secretary?

RON WATERS: Hes going to be --no he was
secretary, now he's going to be treasurer.
TYRON ALI:
10
RON WATERS:
11
TYRON ALI:
12
RON WATERS:
He's going to be the treasurer.

Yeah.
Okay.
He's going to be
13
treasurer.
And Vanessa's vice-chair, and Michelle
14
Brownlee is secretary.
15
TYRON ALI:
16
RON WATERS:
You're staying on it; right?

Yeah, I'm still on as chair.
17
elected chair back on November 16th.
18
already elected for chair.
19
TYRON ALI:
20
RON WATERS:
21
chairmanship.
So, I was
Okay.
But we only voted for
We didn't go through the rest of the
I was
-- the rest of the members.
2
3
TYRON ALI:
Who else is on there, (19:46)
(19:46) Ron?
RON WATERS:
Well, everybody's a member besides
Cruz.
Cruz wrote a letter saying he don't want to
be on the black caucus anymore.
his letter.
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:
10
TYRON ALI:
11
RON WATERS:
12
wrote a letter.
13
it's okay.
14
So, we accepted
When did that happen?

No.
Yesterday?
He did that a while ago.
You're kidding me.

Yeah.
About almost a month ago he
But he never participated, so, (20:06)
He never participated.
TYRON ALI:
Yeah, but, see, that, that, kind of --
15
that lack of cohesiveness is what creates the gaps,
16
and the gaps are what lets the problems in, you
17
know.
18
RON WATERS:
Right, right.
So, now, he's not
19
here.
So, where he was like a missing person, an anti-
20
member, now he's gone, so we don't have to deal with that
21
anymore.
But we can still deal with issues that relevant
to -- (inaudible) --.
make sure I tell these people I need a (20:36)
(20:36) press release for the legislation I passed.
I did a bill --
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:
And I have -- I've got to
Um-hum.
For the national organization
saying that we should, all over the state, oppose
the legislation they did in Arizona with -- the
racial profiling legislation they did, and that's
10
good for Latinos, because those are the ones in
11
Arizona where they was being targeted.
12
TYRON ALI:
13
RON WATERS:
14
TYRON ALI:
15
RON WATERS:
Absolutely. (21:04)
Illegal immigrant.
Absolutely.
You know?
I remember.
So, he always said that nobody
16
dealt with Latino issues, that's a damn lie.
And
17
when that boy got beat up in the state and killed,
18
the immigrant worker, we was on top of that, asking
19
for an investigation.
20
man, I forgot to tell them I need to do a press release
21
on that I got to get it sent out there --
You know, I got to get the -- oh,
1
2
TYRON ALI:
Donatucci's wife, have you?
3
4
RON WATERS:
(21:35)
(21:35)
She -- yeah.
Last night
she was in council with the ward leaders.
5
6
You haven't heard anything about
TYRON ALI:
What are they going to do with
her?
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:
10
TYRON ALI:
11
RON WATERS:
12
TYRON ALI:
13
RON WATERS:
14
TYRON ALI:
15
RON WATERS:
They gonna support her.

Okay.
They have -The special election?
Yeah, a special election.
When?
In March?
(21:46)
February 1st.
February?
Okay.
February 1st.
And she's going to
16
be the democratic candidate.
Bob Brady is on board.
17
All the ward leaders are on board.
18
(On the phone) I need a press release put together
19
about last -- about the -- what we did in Atlanta with the
20
Bob Bogle (ph) and the -- and the resolutions that
21
they voted on unanimously, my two resolutions.
So,
10
I need that to be -- the one bill with the Arizona,
and the one for cultural competency, (22:30)
(22:30) another bill.
national -- yeah, let them know.
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
Okay?
And those are now

Okay?
Well --- end up doing it.

No.
You know, it was such a
blistering commentary in the Daily News yesterday,
and I just thought it was so uncalled for.
10
Did you read the article?
11
RON WATERS:
12
TYRON ALI:
No.
Which one?
The article which was a (22:58)
13
response to the op-ed piece that Marian Tasco had
14
written --
15
RON WATERS:
16
TYRON ALI:
17
RON WATERS:
18
TYRON ALI:
19
RON WATERS:
20
TYRON ALI:
21
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
-- the week before -Yeah.
Yeah.
-- with Cruz.
Yeah.
You know, I don't understand where
that level of aggression comes from, but it must
11
come from a very deep place, because, clearly, it's
been baggage that he's brought with him (23:17)
(23:17) and has -- continues to rear its head.
mean, you can't get anything done that way.
know?
RON WATERS:
You
I heard he called -- I heard he
talked about his money he didn't get, and then
Jewell was just in here.
something about a lap dog or something.
He said -- he mentioned
10
don't know if that's true or not.
11
article.
12
13
And so, I
I didn't see the
But I know I got to get a copy of it.

TYRON ALI:
Alright, well what's your fax number?
(23:38) I'll have somebody fax it over to you.
14
RON WATERS:
15
TYRON ALI:
16
RON WATERS:
17
TYRON ALI:
215-748-1687.
This is home; right?
Yeah.
Yeah.
[23:47]
The other thing, while we're
18
looking -- I don't know if you've read any of the
19
research or not, but there are only about, probably
20
seventeen -- I guess it's probably fourteen or
21
seventeen states that have yet to privatize this
12
liquor piece.
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
Okay.
The other piece is, we're
doing an entire report that looks at these four
things.
right?
three thousand state workers.
got the ability to push smaller commercial brands.
You've got the ability to develop commercial
And the first problem is the union problem,

Because we've got local 1776 that's got
Beyond that, we've
10
accounts, and then, as any private business, you
11
would have the ability to look at the capital
12
markets for infusions of capital and
13
to be able to borrow money at a cheaper rate.
14
Now, the folks that we represent in New
15
York, as I told you last week, you know, the biggest
16
piece is to make sure that the research that we put
17
together is actually something not only can we let
18
it be for public consumption, but that it makes
19
sense for Pennsylvania.
20
we're on the right track.
21
RON WATERS:
You know?
And I think
I know 1776 is going to be opposed
13
to it, and you expect it to be.
TYRON ALI:
Yes.
RON WATERS: Um, and I know that's -- one
of the concerns that people are going to have is
with -- only because of free market, then what are
going to be the -- right now, people are making a
living for wages, and after that becomes private,
anybody can, you know, pretty much open up a liquor
store as long as they qualify.
10
Will they -- what
standards will they have to be -- (inaudible) --?
11
TYRON ALI:
Okay.
Part of what we are going
12
to propose -- look, you've got to look at
13
it this way, you know and I know that sometimes
14
during the holiday season they tend to hire more
15
folks; right?
16
three thousand workers.
17
hundred.
18
that, we're looking to introduce -- that's why the
19
legislation that has to be introduced has to be
20
almost two-part. One specifically dealing with how
21
they're going to address that unemployment or
So, I don't know that it's actually

It might be twenty-eight
It might be twenty-seven hundred.
Beyond
14
underemployment situation.
then the other piece is almost de facto, it's
how's the business going to operate.
That's number one.
And
In terms of the folks who are in the
union, my suggestion is that we create a training
program that allows these folks to be certified in
that particular industry.
program comes about, you know, you bring in your
professionals, you bring in some industry
Now, how that training
10
relationships, you bring in some sponsorships to be
11
able to benefit from those kinds of training, and
12
then you may not be able to hire everyone,
13
but the majority of those people should be able to
14
keep their jobs.
You know?
15
RON WATERS:
16
TYRON ALI:
That's critical.
Thats important. Yeah.

You know that and I know that,
17
especially with unemployment looming at nine and a
18
half percent.
You know?
19
RON WATERS:
20
TYRON ALI:
21
entire situation.
Exactly. Exactly. Exactly.

It's actually the crux of the
15
But, at the end of the day, the other piece
is to make sure that, you know, what needs
to happen is what's actually happening.
Pennsylvania needs to privatize.
time.
And
It's about that
I mean, there are huge opportunities not
just to create commercial accounts and for
import/export like any normal business, but the fact
of the matter is that these liquor stores, they only
10
serve the demographic that they're situated in.
11
the first time, they would actually be able to do
12
more than that.
13
should do.
14
organic or it should grow through acquisitions.
15
None of those things are happening right now.
16
it's stagnant, and it needs to move forward.
17
know?
18
And that's what a business
It should grow and expand.
RON WATERS:
It should be
So,
You
How has it affected
19
other -- other states where they had moved from
20
state-owned to -- state-approved stores to --
21
For
TYRON ALI:
In the research that we've done
16
thus far, and it's certainly not that -- it's a work in
progress -- when you look at New York, for
example, where you have over three
hundred -- I'm sorry, six hundred stores, you're
looking at leasing space anywhere from thirty-four
dollars to almost, I think it was a hundred and
eighty-six dollars per square foot.
the problems, because the state has to create
this -- this -- this budget that allows for these
That's one of
10
folks to be able to pay either the rent or acquire
11
the building to be able to, then, house this
12
liquor -- this liquor store.
13
longer going to be.
14
That is no
And I don't know in Pennsylvania, I
15
don't know as of yet -- and this is something that
16
we're in the process of getting to -- how many of
17
these sites are actually owned by the state, and,
18
then, what's the fair market value, because all of
19
those things -- sure.
20
21
RON WATERS:
I don't know that they own any of
them buildings, not the state stores.
They rent.
17
think they rent all of them.
TYRON ALI:
mean?
couple.
In New York, I know that they own a

Or they did, anyway.
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
the capital budget.
10
Well, see -- see what I
Yeah.
In Pennsylvania, at least -Right.
Okay.
At least that money won't be in

You know?
That -- the other piece, the other piece which
11
is even more important than that, is whether or not
12
the leadership is going to accept this.
13
And it's this fact:
14
liquor store simply serving the demographic, your
15
tax is capped.
16
business, you can look at the fact that that tax
17
revenue is going to multiply.
18
it's going to multiply.
19
numbers yet.
20
accounts, when you look at the possibility for
21
import/export, or even doing business across state
For now, when you've got a
Right?
But once you have a true
Now, I don't know how
We haven't gotten to the
But when you look at commercial
18
lines, you've got the ability to increase that tax
revenue.
the -- the employment, underemployment
situation aside, that's the biggest thing.
And that, to me -- I mean,
RON WATERS:
Because people who mark it up,
where, like, they -- the state stores can't mark --
all the state stores got to sell them for the same
price.
9
10
11
12
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:
Right.
But if they're independent stores,
they -- the price can fluctuate?

TYRON ALI:
The price could fluctuate,
13
but here is what -- and that's competition, and
14
that's good for everybody.
15
But, beyond those things, here's the piece
16
that I think some folks have missed.
When you look
17
at the sale of wines or you look at the sale of
18
spirits, a lot of times you don't see beer in that, in
19
those two categories.
20
don't know that it's really aggressive growth, but I
21
know that there's been some growth in looking at the
There has been some growth, and I
19
microbreweries in Pennsylvania.
York, and Virginia have quite a few (30:52)
microbreweries.
project for these liquor stores will allow these
microbreweries to put their business, their product
line in these new businesses.
brand awareness.
their company.
Pennsylvania, New
This new approach, this new housing
And it gives them
It gives them the ability to grow
And I'm quite sure that there's going to be
10
some tax credit issues that accompany the
11
legislation.
12
You know?
And it's good for everybody, because it
13
raises the tax revenue.
It allows smaller business
14
to participate in the larger scheme of things.
15
Beyond that, the folks who are unemployed,
16
underemployed, seasonal employment folks, this
17
certification program that we're proposing is going
18
to allow these folks to be better trained.
19
the end of the day, if you are unemployed or
20
underemployed, you need to be retooled for the jobs
21
that are relevant for today.
And at
And this -- this
20
industrys still very relevant.
be retrained. (31:54)
3
4
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
10
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
Six hundred -Six hundred nineteen stores.

State stores?
Yes.
So, New York still has the state
No.
No.
They've (32:07)
privatized.
14
15
Yes.
store system.
12
13
(31:54) You're talking New York,
New York.
11
They just need to
RON WATERS:
They got six hundred nineteen
stores that are approved to sell.
16
TYRON ALI:
I don't know that all of them are,
17
but these are the number of sites that they've got
18
so far.
19
20
21
You know?
RON WATERS:
And they're all independently
operated.
TYRON ALI:
Well, New York does not support
21
chain-owned liquor stores.
independently owned.
RON WATERS:
They're
(32:27)
(32:27) They're all
independently --
5
6
You know?
TYRON ALI:
They're independently owned.
Right.
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:
10
TYRON ALI:
11
RON WATERS:
12
TYRON ALI:
13
RON WATERS:
14
TYRON ALI:
So -Right.
So, you could go buy beer, wine, or
Spirits, yes.
Hard liquor.
Hard liquor.
Um-hum. (32:38)
And brew -- and beer, too?
You know what, I'm not certain as
15
to whether or not they allow the microbreweries into
16
those stores.
17
what's today's date?
18
would say by the time you guys get -- because the
19
package is going to be here before the 10th of
20
January.
21
stats, because we're going to propose it to your
But, again, you know, probably in the next Today's date is the 15th, I
We should have all the numbers and all the
22
committee.
RON WATERS:
Because I know, like, in (33:05)
(33:05) Jersey, that's what it is.
to like a Canal store
you could buy beer or you could buy wine or you
could buy hard liquor in those stores.
could -- and their hours are different too.
you go there up till 10:00 and buy -- well,
Pennsylvania has a couple stores that stay open 'til
10
You go in Jersey
-- (inaudible) --
I think you
I think, if
10 o'clock too, you know, a few of them.
11
TYRON ALI:
They also -- you know, that's one
12
of the things that sort of makes sense is (33:33)
13
for those stores to be open twenty-four hours.
14
One of the issues that has to be dealt with is a
15
comment that's been sort of floating around, and the
16
comment is this:
17
readily available, that you're actually encouraging
18
people to drink.
19
though.
20
for that.
21
business, the mathematics sort of correlates to the
You know?
If liquor's more available, more
And that's not necessarily true,

And there's several arguments
I mean, most of the time, in any small
23
fact that if you're open, you're going to do more
business.
(34:07) been the position of the manufacturers to
please drink and not drive, and if you are going to
drink, do so in moderation.
going to continue.
You know?
And it's always (34:07)
And those messages are
You know?
I think that it also provides the
opportunity for more awareness, actually, about the
negatives of drinking and driving.
I think you can
10
do workshops and that kind of thing, and that would
11
probably help as well.
12
The name of the game here is (34:32)
13
simply to create a business that is both necessary
14
and creates tax revenue.
15
day, those are the problems that we're faced with.
16
Those are the problems that you kind of need to
17
solve, besides the four-billion-dollar gap that's
18
coming.
19
I mean, at the end of the
RON WATERS: Oh, yeah, man.
I know that's --
20
what we want to do, is take that money to fill this year's
21
or next year's gap.
24
1
2
TYRON ALI:
but any help at all -- (35:01)
3
4
It's not going to happen that way,
RON WATERS:
(35:01)
Oh, it won't fill
that gap.
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
The other thing is that you're going to be
Any help at all.

They wont make that much money - No.
No. [35:05]
able -- this is something else that people are not
10
really -- those who are not informed really don't
11
understand, and it's this:
12
acquisition of the license, include the tax
13
revenue from the sale of those licenses, you come up
14
with a pretty decent number, depending on how they
15
structure the sale of these new licenses.
16
17
18
RON WATERS:
When you look at the
How many stores do they plan
on -- I mean, do they have a limit?

TYRON ALI:
My, my proposition, at least based on
19
the proposal that we're doing, is that we look at a
20
pilot program.
21
accept that or not.
Now I don't know if they're going to

But the point is, that's
25
exactly what we're going to propose.
program with a handful of stores, maybe a
dozen, and see how this works.
4
5
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:
9
10
And let the pilot run while the
current structure is still in place.
Create a pilot
Still exists, right.

Okay, so, that means that -- the
pilot would last for how long?

TYRON ALI:
I proposed, in our document,
twelve months.
11
RON WATERS:
12
TYRON ALI:
13
RON WATERS:
So, for a year.

Yes.
So, that means they wouldn't get
14
the money for that gap until a couple years anyway,
15
you know, if the pilots are successful --
16
TYRON ALI:
Well, there is something called
17
mark to market, and what we're looking at is, when
18
you -- when you do that, you're basically taking
19
into effect, into account the money from those
20
stores, based on the sale of the licenses.
21
that, you're also able to look at how and when these
Beyond
26
sales are actually going to take place.
that, it's ease of transition.
people don't like aggressive transition.
So, if you can make it smoother, they will probably
accept it.
Besides
You know,
Besides that, you know, beyond the fact
that we have to propose the bill through your
committee and then look at what amendments needs to
be made in order so that we can get the bill out of
10
committee and then get it re-proposed in the senate,
11
I mean, it's going to take some time.
12
So, I think, twelve months is sort of a
13
safe bet.
14
RON WATERS:
15
TYRON ALI:
You know?
Okay.
You know, we're not looking --
16
this is not going to be an overnight process.
17
is a slow walk.
18
RON WATERS:
19
TYRON ALI:
20
21
Okay.
Because it's going to change the
way that Pennsylvania is doing business.

RON WATERS:
This
Okay.
27
1
2
TYRON ALI:
both sides.
3
4
And that requires cooperation on
A lot of cooperation, actually.
RON WATERS:
I know they got these
kiosks (inaudible) --
TYRON ALI:
Yeah, they tried them in Wegmans,
and honestly, I don't know what the impact -- what
the fiscal impact has been.
far as sale of the wine product, more exposure for
the manufacturer, and then greater tax revenue from
The fiscal impact, as
10
that particular manufacturer, that particular
11
bottling company, and then I don't know what the
12
distribution costs are.
13
if that single source of effort, what the
14
implications have been.
15
RON WATERS:
So, I don't know
Well, I know Wegmans and Sheetz
16
and stores like that will probably support what you
17
want, because they want to be able to sell, in the
18
open market.
19
TYRON ALI:
20
folks.
21
York.
We're not worried about those
We're worried about our own folks in New

You know, that's the key.
28
As I said to you, they don't really -- New
York does not support chain-owned stores, (38:25)
(38:25) and that has not come up yet in
Pennsylvania.
that.
only a few families or a few businesses that can,
one, raise the capital; two, be able to raise -- to
run the business effectively and efficiently; and
then, three, be able to deal with any coincidental
Maybe there may be some resistance to
But the truth of the matter is that there are
10
costs that come up in order to either subsidize the
11
business or to help the business make more (38:52)
12
money.
13
RON WATERS:
14
TYRON ALI:
15
Um-hum.
You know, this is not New York.
It's a totally different aspect.
You know?
16
RON WATERS:
Well, that's big.
17
And then the Rite-Aids and the CVSs and all
18
those stores that were looking for this stuff to
19
become privatized before, because I think thats what
20
Ridge was going to do and it didn't happen while Ridge
21
was in office, and that's when the Rite-Aids was
29
like, oh, yeah, we want to be able to have the --
that's when they started closing down a lot (39:19)
39:19) of mom and pop drug stores.
TYRON ALI:
The real issue here is -- you
know, besides what we've just talked about, you have
one other thing going on, and it's simply this:
There has to be set-aside monies for the folks to
have support in the event that they believe that
they're suffering from that disease known as
10
alcoholism.
You know?
11
know, for right now, all we're looking to do is look
12
to folks like you for support and (39:51)
13
guidance --
14
RON WATERS:
15
TYRON ALI:
16
RON WATERS:
And we'll get to that.
You
I know.
-- to move this thing forward.
And I appreciate that because --
17
-- (inaudible) -- with independent stores, because,
18
like they did with the lottery and with gambling, but
19
those were done on a regulatory basis.
20
set aside money for compulsive gambling.
21
TYRON ALI:
Um-hum.
But they did

Remember?
They have GA, AA, and NA.
30
You know?
I know that SugarHouse and the other
folks, they winded up having to put aside, (40:26)
(40:26) some money specifically for that.
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
credits.
They got to - - yeah.

You know?
But how do you do that?
Well you do it in the form of tax
I mean, that's my proposal.
You know?
The other piece, the other piece that makes
10
sense is for a nonprofit organization to really lead
11
that effort.
12
are already engaged in that sort of, like, (40:51)
13
there's one, you know, GPUAC, they have several
14
programs.
15
Trusts, which are involved in the research and
16
funding of several other programs.
17
And you've got a couple of them that
And then you've got Pew Charitable
The issue then becomes whether or not those
18
folks are going to run that program like the EARN
19
centers, or whether or not they're going to do
20
something that is more therapy based, as opposed to
21
have it almost like a classroom.
You know, that's
31
really the question.
This is definitely going to happen. (41:20)
RON WATERS:
It's just a matter of time.
(41:20) Got to be ready though,
because, you know, those question that you're
saying, they are going to come up and those
resistance are going to be held.
(inaudible) -- this is going to lead to compulsive
gambling.
their homes and gambling their savings you know,
And I --
This is going to lead to people losing
10
people looking at all the negatives of it, crime and
11
all that kind of stuff.
12
So -- but we have to figure out, (41:48)
13
because people will say, well, the stores are more
14
readily available, who's, how, what -- each store is
15
a little bit more profit motivated, and they're more
16
likely to sell liquor to an individual who's an
17
intoxicated person at these stop-and-gos do, and --
18
(inaudible) -- and they are more likely to sell
19
liquor to a person, even if their age is questionable,
20
because theyre more driven by profit than they
21
are than, than anything else.
32
TYRON ALI: [42:22]
Okay.
Let's go back a little
bit.
earlier about the training program?
training program addresses those issues.
5
6
RON WATERS:
The
But they got that now.
And --
[Overtalking.]
7
8
Do you remember me talking to you
TYRON ALI:
There is -- there is legislation,
yeah.
RON WATERS:
I have a bill for that.
And my
10
bill just ran, and I keep getting -- it passes through
11
the House and gets to the Senate, and then they keep
12
piling all this other shit on top of it, man,
13
because these guys are like, well, this is a great
14
vehicle to grant, who could be opposed to that, so
15
then they start sliding their stuff in there, and
16
that slows the vehicle down, because now everybody's
17
like, well, I don't have a problem with that, but
18
this other stuff's, you know, is problematic.
19
TYRON ALI:
20
RON WATERS:
21
So --
That's where the politics come in.

Yeah.
And I told my staff, you
know, we're going to reintroduce it again.
We get
33
it through the House.
Donatucci was always able to
get it through the committee, and we
unanimously got -- got a unanimous vote on
the House.
like, this is going to be the first bill coming out
of liquor control that's going to be signed into
law, but these other members are pilling their shit on top
of it.
It goes to the Senate, and they're
I don't know, man.
TYRON ALI:
10
RON WATERS:
It would slow it down.
Well, look -If I can get it to work clean, I
11
think in this case, if they do look at this,
12
hopefully it will be done anyway, but they
13
got to get that bill through.
14
TYRON ALI:
Can I close this door?
15
Let me just share something with you.
16
Look, [closes door], here's the truth.
17
the chairman.
18
gonna have to exercise that God given right of
19
leverage.
20
this is for you.
21
All right?
All right?
At the end of the day, you're
I don't know -- I don't know how you --
RON WATERS:
You're
Oh, thank you.
34
TYRON ALI:
I don't know how that -- how you
do that.
(43:59) But the one that bothers me that
we talked about is Kenyatta.
of how he moves with Anthony.
there.
All right? Because

But we will get
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
What I would like to do, do you think,
9
10
We will get there.
Friday -- do you think Friday you might be in the

office?
This Friday coming up?
11
RON WATERS:
12
TYRON ALI:
13
Right.
Yes.
Yeah, I can be there.

All right.
How about maybe 2
o'clock?
14
RON WATERS:
15
TYRON ALI:
16
RON WATERS:
Usually after 2:00.
(44:26)
After 2:00?
I'll be there before theyre
17
trying to get me appointed at 1:00.
18
do it because between 1:00 and 3:00 I'm already
19
committed to something.
20
before 1:00 or after -- hopefully before 1:00.
21
TYRON ALI:
22
RON WATERS:
23
TYRON ALI:
I couldn't
So, I could have a meeting
All right.
How about 12 o'clock?
12 o'clock, I'm going to call you.
35
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
Okay.
And I'm going to -- the (44:50)
(44:50) reason I'm going to call you is, I might be
close to there probably around 1:00, 1:30, but let's
just keep talking.
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
8
9
10
11
12
Okay.
By Monday -- are you coming back
up here Wednesday?
RON WATERS: No. I shouldnt be back [45:02]
TYRON ALI:
You're not going to be back until
January 4th?
RON WATERS:
No, I might come back up
13
here, to tell you the truth, because I'm really
14
thinking about some things that -- that I got to
15
come up here and talk to my staff about.
16
not going to be until next week.
17
18
TYRON ALI:
And that's
Well look, that will pay for your car.
[laughter] All right?
19
RON WATERS:
20
TYRON ALI: I'll give you a call Friday,
21
see where you are.
22
be back up here.
23
Appreciate it, man. Appreciate it.
And then on Wednesday, I should

All right?
RON WATERS:
Okay. All right.
36
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
(45:32)
Eventually, we're going
Kenyattas not on the committee.

He's not on?
He aint on liquor control.
Oh, I thought -- oh, these were
all black legislative caucus --
10
RON WATERS:
11
TYRON ALI:
12
RON WATERS:
13
Kenyatta (inaudible) --
to need to get the bill out of committee.
There's -- there's a lot going on.
-- (inaudible) -Got it.

Only black person on the
liquor control committee --
14
TYRON ALI:
15
RON WATERS:
16
TYRON ALI: It's you, John Myers. Did he retain it?
17
RON WATERS:
18
TYRON ALI:
19
RON WATERS:
20
-- is me.
He probably will stay on.

Um -Kenyattas not on that.
I don't
remember seeing any committee --
21
22
Let's go back to this then.
TYRON ALI:
right?
Dante Santoni is going to stay;
37
RON WATERS:
I heard -- well, you said that --
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS: he wants it, but I'm hearing that he's
Yeah.
Yeah.
going to stay on liquor - - on gaming
oversight.
TYRON ALI:
Okay.
Listen, do me a favor.
Friday, I need to know who all the members are going
to be, because I'm sure that --
9
10
RON WATERS:
I can find out - - word is going to
leak out about these committee assignments.
11
TYRON ALI:
12
RON WATERS:
Um-hum.
-- (inaudible) -- and (46:36)
13
Harry Readshaw, he's going to be on [inaudible].
14
And what's her name, [inaudible] McGeehan is
15
going to be transportation.
16
17
TYRON ALI:
That's huge,
man.
18
RON WATERS:
19
TYRON ALI:
20
RON WATERS:
21
You're kidding me.
guy.
That's huge.
That's huge.
That's huge.
I'm shocked at this
He came from committee or committee --
38
which was like nothing, and when Mark Spello (ph) ran for
leadership, he positioned himself to get a (47:00)
(47:00) professional licensure, which was huge.
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:
Um-hum.
And now he's going to
transportation.
who's moving these -- who's got the seniority.
be, like, damn, boy, you get these powerful
committees, man.
10
11
I don't know where everybody is,
I want to get on transportation.
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:
13
TYRON ALI:
14
RON WATERS:
15
TYRON ALI:
Naw. (47:21)
No?
Only eleven years.
Eleven.
Oh, I'm sorry.
It's been
what -- who's there twenty years?
17
RON WATERS:
18
TYRON ALI:
19
RON WATERS:
20
TYRON ALI:
21
But you have been there for twenty
years plus.
12
16
think --
Twenty years?
Only a couple, right?
Louise Williams, Curtis Thomas.
Any of those two people on -- you
39
RON WATERS:
She don't even have twenty years
yet.
-- (inaudible) --
(47:47) Williams, Curtis Thomas and -- you mean
regulars?
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
8
9
10
I think Louise (47:47)
Um-hum.
And maybe Thaddeus Kirkland.
Do you think any of those folks
will wind up on liquor?

RON WATERS:
requested.
Well, see, I don't know if they
I requested it.
11
TYRON ALI:
12
RON WATERS:
You requested it.

I asked to be back on (48:05)
13
there, because it's a popular -- I'm going to tell
14
you right now, as short as we are in members, the
15
Democratic caucus, we're probably going to get six
16
committees easy.
17
last time, so I'm sure people are going to get six
18
committee.
You know, I had six committees
19
TYRON ALI:
20
RON WATERS:
21
to spread us around.
All right.
Okay.
You know, because they got
You know, we can't cover the
40
committees if they don't do that.
other people start passing through.
TYRON ALI:
[48:29]
So, I hope some
I think we'll be okay.
You know, look, at the end of the day, it's not --
for me, it's not about numbers.
relationships, because -- I've always been that
way.
8
9
And I deal with very few people.

RON WATERS:
I know.
I know you do.
TYRON ALI:
tie and my suit?
12
You like my suit?
You like my bow
Wow.
RON WATERS:
I like you, bow tie, white shirt, you
13
are (48:48) super clean today, Mr. Ali.
14
(inaudible) -- in gray.
15
It's not -- it don't look like that, man.
16
that.
17
TYRON ALI:
18
RON WATERS:
19
We'll see you --
I have a gray pinstripe.
Thank you.
I like
Thank you.
I need a new suit, man.
--
(inaudible) --
20
21
That's
a sharp suit, man.
10
11
It's about
TYRON ALI:
out.
One of these days we've got to go
41
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
(49:10)
Yeah.
When things calm down.
(49:10)
This thing with Angel is -- it's
going to create some --
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:
Angel is an angry -Yes.

-- Latino.
And --
Yes.
And he has had bad attendance on
10
the floor.
11
committees.
12
saying that they don't want him on their (49:31)
13
committee because he don't show up for health and
14
services.
15
He don't show up for -- I mean, I'm going on three
16
committees that he's on.
He don't come.
17
come to the house floor.
So, he's got the worst
18
attendance on the house floor.
19
He's got bad attendance in his

And most people who are chairs are
He don't show up for children and youth.
He don't
He barely won his election in November.
He
20
only won by, I think, a hundred forty-six votes --
21
(inaudible) -- primary, primary, a hundred forty-six
42
votes.
And now they're investigating him (49:59)
(49:59)because they feel as though there's some
fraud even in that so they're investigating
him and --
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:
Because of the petitions, yeah.

Petitions.
There's a lot of shit
man.
And then he had sent a letter talking
about I'm resigning from the black caucus, people in
10
Philly said, that makes him that much more
11
vulnerable.
12
issues.
13
to be a part -- where else you going?
14
caucus are you going to that's going to be focused
15
on blacks and Latino and minority community issues?
16
There is no place else to go.
17
tried to start their own committee years ago,
18
something, something, African-Latino group -- and it -- it
19
didn't work.
20
either the caucus.
21
Perzel, but he couldnt do it [inaudible].
The black caucus deals with Latino
How dare you say you don't want (50:17)

What other
Rosita
They didn't have the support from

They were trying to do it with John
43
TYRON ALI:
You know, at the end of the day,
some folks who are in leadership, it's
(50:52) unfortunate, because they don't -- they
don't have the personality for it.
the tenets that other leaders kind of hold dear.
You know, this is -- this is a difficult time.
this requires a great deal of patience, a lot of
humility, and, to some extent, the ability to take
something simple and make it more effective and
They don't have
10
efficient.
11
it's extremely difficult to do that.
12
not be doing that at the risk of your (51:32)
13
constituents being sacrificed.
14
And
If you've never been trained to do that,

And you should
And with the legislative process the way
15
that it is now, because of the fact that the budget
16
is going to be what it is, there's going to be no
17
sacred cow in the pasture.
18
going to be looked at.
19
means tested, and that is a fact.
20
21
You know?
Everything's
Everything is going to be
When I sit down with my own colleagues and

we try to figure out, you know, how this is going to
44
work and when is it going to work and why is it
going to work, you come back to the same (52:03)
(52:03) thing.
This is -- this is -- I know that sounds a little
bit like Reaganomics, but it is what it is.
got to cut spending.
7
8
9
10
11
You've got to cut costs.
You know?
You've
You know?
Ron, who represents you?
Who's your
lobbyist up here?
RON WATERS:
Some people come to lobby me, but I
don't have, like, someone who lobbies for me.

TYRON ALI:
Somebody that provides you with a
12
fair amount of information based on (52:31)
13
whatever you might be voting on.
14
RON WATERS:
15
TYRON ALI:
Nobody.
Well, I'd like you to keep me in
16
mind for that spot, because I do as much -- I do
17
probably more research than most of the folks, because
18
I'm not lazy about it.
19
RON WATERS:
20
TYRON ALI:
21
seriously.
I can tell. Right.

You know, I take my job very
I always did.
45
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
I can tell. I know that.

You know us Indian people, (52:50)
(52:50) man, we work like heck.
the only Indian -- well, there are two of us up
here.
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:
14
TYRON ALI:
15
RON WATERS:
16
TYRON ALI:
from the Middle East.
18
RON WATERS:
19
TYRON ALI:
20
21
This guy named Amir -- I mean,
How did you get a name like Ali
It's a long story.
It's a long
story. (53:07)
13
17
Who's the other one?
and you're Indian?
11
12
And I'm
Hushmanda, some kind of name that I can't --
9
10
You know?
That is what I'm -- [Overtalking.]

[Overtalking.]
-- you're an Arab, man.
Actually, my mother's family is
My dad's from India.
Okay.
But it was good seeing you, as
always.
RON WATERS:
You, too.
46
I will call you on Friday.
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
All right. (53:25)

(53:25)
You been to the Sands?

No, no, no.
-- (inaudible) -Okay.
You met April, right?
No, no.
10
FERON WATERS:
11
TYRON ALI:
12
FERON WATERS:
13
RON WATERS:
14
TYRON ALI:
16
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
19
RON WATERS:
21
Hi.
Hi.
Tyron Ali.
Nice to meet you.
Nice to meet you. (53:35)

I thought you met April before, as
I know.
All right.
April's my keeper
staff.
18
20
Hi.
many times as you've been up here.
15
17
Thank you, sir.
Very nice meeting you, April.

She's been with me from day one.
This is black caucus staff.

TYRON ALI:
This is Danielle.
Hi, Danielle.
47
Female 3:
RON WATERS:
never stay put.
4
5
Hi.
Where is -- this girl can
All right.
TYRON ALI:
This is Dave.
Hi, Dave.
Tyron Ali.
Nice to
meet you.
RON WATERS: Daves the executive director, and the
lady who is missing right here is our research
analyst.
9
10
Maybe she's out doing some research.

TYRON ALI:
FEMALE 4:
12
RON WATERS:
13
he is a good friend.
14
TYRON ALI:
Nice meeting you.

This is Brother Ali.
And, ah,
All right?
He doesn't like to use the L word.
I lobby.
16
RON WATERS:
17
TYRON ALI:
18
RON WATERS:
19
Nice
meeting you.
11
15
I'm sure I'll see you again.
He's a lobbyist.
All right, man.
We got some stuff coming up too, man,
-- so if like to help --
20
TYRON ALI:
21
RON WATERS:
Let me know.
Let me know.
We got our annual -- we got a
48
couple things.
4th.
We got the swearing in on January
TYRON ALI: Right.
RON WATERS:
And then we got the Afro-American
month celebration that happens every year on February
8th.
7
8
9
TYRON ALI:
Ron, whatever you need, just let
me know.
RON WATERS:
10
TYRON ALI:
11
RON WATERS:
12
TYRON ALI:
Alright.
Alright. Just let me know.
You got a card on you?
No, man.
Just call me on
13
my cell phone.
You know how it is.
14
though, I am going to be opening up, in the near
15
future, an office here in Harrisburg.
16
RON WATERS:
17
TYRON ALI:
18
RON WATERS:
19
TYRON ALI:
20
21
Good.
You know what I mean?
You should. You should.
You would come -- you don't smoke
cigars, do you?
RON WATERS:
At some point,
No.
49
TYRON ALI:
We got to encourage that.
RON WATERS:
I had my, like
-- (inaudible) -- and mostly when we were,
like, on trips, we would go, like, we was at, like,
cigar bars -- (inaudible).
6
7
TYRON ALI:
time.
Next time.
Yeah, yeah.
Of course.
There's a place here.
I'll call you Friday.
RON WATERS:
All right.
10
TYRON ALI:
11
RON WATERS:
12
TYRON ALI:
13
(Pause from 55:16 to 56:44).
14
TYRON ALI:
15
I'm leaving now.
Thanks.
Take care.
Bye-bye.
(55:16)
Hey there, sir.
Okay.
I can't -- yes,
Thanks.
16
(Pause from 56:57 to 1:02:30.
17
AGENT THOMAS:
18
Tape is now being
deactivated.
19
(Pause from 1:02:34 to 1:02:59)
20
AGENT THOMAS:
21
deactivated.
Next
Tape is now being
Time is 1250 hours.
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* * * * *
51
CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER
2
3
I hereby certify that the foregoing is a
true and accurate transcription of the recordings in
the aforementioned matter.
6
7
________________________
Brenda J. Pardun, RPR
Notary Public
10
11
12
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T-41 January 31, 2011
This is Claude Thomas, Senior Supervisory Special Agent,

Pennsylvania Office of Attorney General, badge number is 118, A
certification #A-1418. I am a Senior Supervisory Special Agent.
This device is being placed on CI-2010-01 in reference to
investigation number 36-622. Todays date is Monday, January
31, year 2011. Current time is 18:52 hundred hours. CI will be
meeting with RW within the confines of the city of Harrisburg,
county Dauphin County. This device will remain activated until I
deactivate it at a later time.
TA
SSSAT
RW
???
=
=
=
=
Consenting Party
Ron Waters
Unknown
Start of Video Track #1 (T-41).

TA
Do you have the paper? The paper (U/I).
???
(U/I).
???
[2:44] How you doing sir?
TA
Hi. How are you?
???
Can I help you with anything?
TA
I, no, were good. Thank you.
???
(U/I).
???
(U/I).
TA
Ok. Alright. Thats fine. (U/I). Good evening.
???
Hi.
TA
Need a table for two please?
???
Ah hmm.
1 | Page
T-41 January 31, 2011
TA
Thanks. Back in the corner.
???
Do you want a booth or a table?
TA
Table.
???
Right here (U/I).
TA
Yeah thats fine. Thank you.
???
Welcome.
TA
Thanks.
???
(U/I).
TA
Certainly.
???
Are we expecting one more?
TA
Yes.
???
Then would you like anything else to drink while youre

waiting?
TA
Ah no. This is fine. Can I have another napkin though?
???
Absolutely.
TA
Thank you.
???
(U/I).
TA
[6:19] Thank you.

Coke?
???
A Diet Coke?
TA
Absolutely.
You know what can I have a Diet
2 | Page
T-41 January 31, 2011
TA
Thank you.
???
Youre welcome.
TA
Thank you.
???
No problem (U/I).
[Background conversations]
TA
[On the phone]

[21:42] Hey Ron. Everything ok?
Oh ok. I think I see you too. I think I see you too.
Alright.
How are you sir?
RW
Good. How you doing man?
TA
How you doing? Everything alright?
RW
Yes sir.
TA
Good to see you. Long day huh?
RW
(U/I) it wasnt that bad.
TA
Nice tie.
RW
Thank you.
I knew that you would be wearing
something nice, man (U/I). So how you been? You
alright?
TA
Good. Good
RW
(U/I).
TA
Good.
3 | Page
T-41 January 31, 2011
RW
You and your bowties, man.
TA
Yeah they tease.
RW
(U/I).
TA
They tease me. Good to see you.
RW
Ah you too.
TA
How did your ah Martin Luther King thing, how did that
come along?
RW
We didnt have it this year. They ahm, the hon, the hon,
the honoring people they (U/I).
TA
Ok.
RW
Yeah we skipped it. My staff was exhausted. They was

bugging me man, bugging me every year so what we
did, we decided to do some other community outreach
(U/I) we had to cancel last week because of the weather
ahm but they been well received by the community.
People just go nuts. Whats going on with this ahm
(U/I) energy, energy deregulation?
???
(U/I).
RW
Yeah. Can I get an Arnold Palmer?
???
An Arnold Palmer? Sure.
TA
Some of the ah, when you say that, that theyre being
well received.
RW
Yeah I mean people, people in the community coming

out to learn about (U/I) we had someone last week even
in spite of the bad weather people were still calling,
you still gonna have it?, they still wanted to come out
you know even though we had like snow last time. It
was scheduled for Thursday, we had the storm
4 | Page
T-41 January 31, 2011
Wednesday people still wanted to come out. Thats how,

Im like why people want to come out in this kind of
weather (U/I).
TA
[24:30] Ill tell you something with the economy the

way that it is, any cost cutting measures at all, people
are willing to embrace them.
RW
Its bad out. Its bad.
TA
But it was worse. It was worse.
RW
Some people. Even before coming here the guy called

me up and asked me could I find him a job. Theres
supposed to be a job fair tomorrow I believe at Valley
Forge (U/I).
TA
Yes.
RW
(U/I).
TA
At the Dolce ah Hotel.
RW
Yeah.
TA
Yeah.
RW
Im sure even in spite of the weather you will see

people still show up and rightfully so (U/I) food on the
table.
TA
You know Ill tell you something. Until the folks who
are graduating recognize that they are suppose to be
job creators as opposed to job seekers, nothings going
to change. Not right now.
RW
Yeah.
TA
See you guys need some boxing gloves in the House.
RW
[25:31] Ah you know. I was, I was looking forward to

5 | Page
T-41 January 31, 2011
coming back today. We werent suppose to be in today.

TA
Ah hmm.
RW
We were supposed to be in.

Well I got Tuesday,
Wednesday and Thursday.
Appropriations meeting
(U/I) long meetings like five hours each day and ah but
I, but Monday we were supposed to be off for the ahm.
We broke down last week (U/I). This stuff about (U/I)
they allowed the amendments to go forward. They say
ahm they put back off of that (U/I).
TA
Yeah committee.
RW
(U/I) they took a lot of heat off of that. Oh yeah.
TA
You guys need to mobilize.
RW
Yeah. Yeah.
TA
Mobilize. Re-energize.
RW
Yeah.
TA
But dont victimize.
RW
Oh no. We dont do that. We dont victimize. Thats the

other side. They (U/I). They believe in that man. (U/I).
who we are. (U/I). Here we are ahm. You know its
funny cause a lot of people told me that when I (U/I)
like the first thing I heard when I came in today. Hey
Rep. (U/I) ready to rumble (U/I).
TA
Yeah.
RW
(U/I).
TA
Ahm.
RW
(U/I).
6 | Page
T-41 January 31, 2011
TA
Whats your soup of the day?
???
It is black bean with smoked bacon.
TA
Alright. Let me have the ah clam chowder.
???
The clam chowder? Cup or a bowl?
TA
A bowls fine.
???
A bowl?
TA
Yeah. And I would like a ah you know what, he hasnt

really had time to look over the menu.
???
Ok. Ill give you.
TA
Can you give us a couple minutes.
???
Yeah.
TA
Thanks.
home.
RW
Yeah.
TA
So oh.
RW
(U/I).
TA
Did you see what was going on? I heard from one of
the, one of the reps she might have been in the middle.
She almost got knocked out.
RW
Really?
TA
You know the story changes.
RW
Yeah (U/I)
TA
(U/I).
Somebody called me at.
7 | Page
I was actually at
T-41 January 31, 2011
RW
There was nobody, wasnt nobody throwing punches

man. No, it didnt get that bad. It didnt get that bad.
People will exaggerate but ahm nah. But it, it was
heated. It was, it was very, very, very heated but ahm it
seems as if they backed off that and decided it aint
worth the heat they going to catch and ahm so
everything is back to normal.
TA
[28:28]
This is the first time the at least I can
remember in the last twenty, twenty five years where
you guys actually have six chairs.
RW
To who?
TA
Chairs.
RW
Who. Black Caucus?
TA
Yeah.
RW
Lets see. We got ahm.
TA
Roebuck, Louise.
RW
Roebuck, Louise, ahm Rosita.
TA
Ah hmm.
RW
Ahm Thomas.
TA
Ah hmm.
RW
And ahm who else do we have? Oh Myers.
TA
Ah hmm.
RW
Myers. Yeah. So we got six.
TA
Yeah.
8 | Page
T-41 January 31, 2011
RW
And, and we say Preston. That might be seven.
TA
Joe.
RW
Joe Preston. (U/I). We got (U/I), Preston. They been

chairs for awhile. Ahm (U/I) and Rosita, Myers (U/I) ahm
Thomas and Louise. Seven. Yeah.
TA
Seven huh.
RW
Seven.
TA
Thats even more than--
RW
Yeah.
TA
--I thought.
RW
Yeah. We got seven chairs. Yeah, out of twenty-one

members, one third of them, the caucus is chairs.
TA
[29:48] I was just, I was, I was sort of ahm (U/I).
RW
I didnt even see him today. (U/I) but you know hes
not on that committee anymore. Its Rosita, and I did
see her.
TA
Ah hmm.
RW
You know she, shes on there. Its Rosita and ah.
TA
Whos on which one?
RW
On the.
TA
No were talking about something else.
RW
Yeah.
TA
Alright.
9 | Page
T-41 January 31, 2011
RW
Im thinking about gaming. (U/I).
TA
Uh huh.
RW
No, hes on, but I didnt even see him today.
TA
Uh huh.
RW
[30:45] So what do you need to know from me?
TA
I need to know if you can, you know what I mean?
RW
Yeah.
TA
Make that transition to that liquor committee.
RW
Well the leader told me today that theyre working on

the, they waiting for the results of tomorrows election.
You know this is going to be a bad day to hold election
on.
TA
Ah hmm. Turnouts going to be very limited.
RW
I didnt even hear anybody whos talking about it at all.

You know so I mean I dont even know if people know
theres (U/I) election.
TA
(U/I). But I am glad that you are on appropriations.

Thats great.
RW
Some of those (U/I) fools are trying to get me off.
TA
Youre kidding me.
RW
Yeah. They wanted to (U/I) back up.
TA
Oh.
RW
So the other way around whatever, whoever, the chair

of the committee.
10 | P a g e
T-41 January 31, 2011
TA
Ah hmm.
RW
They get to put on there who they want to put on there

(U/I). Chair want me on there.
TA
Whos on there from Philadelphia delegation?

RW
Ah (U/I).
???
Have you guys decided now?
RW
Yeah. Yeah.
???
Alright.
RW
I was looking for onion soup. I didnt see that (U/I). Is

there any meat in here?
???
The baked (U/I) wrap? No. None at all.
RW
(U/I).
???
Ok.
RW
Ahm are you waiting for me to finish? Give me ah a

(U/I). Ill have a hmm (U/I).
???
Sure.
RW
(U/I).
???
And that comes with a salad. What kind of dressing

would you like?
RW
Ill have to have (U/I) no do you have a vinaigrette?
???
Raspberry or balsamic?
11 | P a g e
T-41 January 31, 2011
RW
Raspberry.
???
Yes. Alright. For you sir?
TA
Im going to make your life so easy.

exactly what hes having.
???
The exact same thing?
TA
Exact same thing.
???
Alright.
RW
Make it easy.
TA
Make it easy.
???
Ill put that in for you guys. And.
RW
Can we get more bread?
???
Yeah.
RW
(U/I).
TA
[1:25] From, from what I understand, everybody got

two of the five committee that they selected.
Unfortunately, in terms of the black caucus, you guys
really only have two well you got four positions on
anything thats really major. I mean Rositas budget is
not going to be nothing that. Its not going anything to
talk about. Louise because of the, split between health
and human services, she nor or John is going to have
anything to talk about. Youve only got Peyton on
transportation.
You, Cherelle and Jewell on
appropriations. This is, this is completely at least from
where I stand, looks like you guys have been
marginalized.
RW
Well thats part of our complaint. The media called me

today
from
Pittsburgh
about
the
committee
12 | P a g e
Im going to have
T-41 January 31, 2011
assignments about the fact that (U/I). That we didnt

have no one on Health and Human Services (U/I).
Nobody on Judiciary. Nobody on, ahm, any of us on
liquor control?
TA
No.
RW
No. None of us on liquor control.

thing.
TA
No.
RW
(U/I) when they got. I said none of us on judiciary and

then, then ah I said they packed us on health and
human services, not to say that thats not relevant to
our community but, but the other, the other committees
there are relevant to our community too. And he said
well you know you guys did lose a lot of people in your
Democratic Caucus. I said yes we did. Thats the only
reason why, I said no black people (U/I). We even
gained one.
TA
Right.
RW
He said oh really. I said thats true. So I said we dont

need five on one committee and none of the other. They
could have just split us up.
TA
[3:25] I dont ah I dont understand how this is going to

work because I dont, I just dont see how you can be
effective. I mean you got younger people who have no
idea where the resources are. You got guys like me
advising some folks on what you should, shouldnt do,
how you could move around. The problem is so the
money is now being appropriated by committee. Ahm
unfortunately you have no say. You know what I mean
so how do you intend, can you, can you combat that? I
mean you are on appropriations so maybe you might be
able to work something out but I cant see you getting
cooperation unless you are you know. Someone said to
me the other day Ron is such a gentle person. I said I
13 | P a g e
Thats the other
T-41 January 31, 2011
know. I dont know how hes going to ah be forceful

cause at the end of the day thats almost what you have
to be.
RW
Part of the problem is for us, in the Black Caucus, is

that, the other day when I had (U/I) committee
assignments because he did come at first very
aggressive.
TA
Ah hmm.
RW
[5:01] And but the caucus members wanted to come

out aggressive in a way where it didnt make sense.
You dont go to a gun fight with a knife, you know, and
thats what they was going for. So I had (U/I) and let
them know that we (U/I). Members wanted to argue
about (U/I). And that makes (U/I) they wanted to
boycott appropriations for that reason (U/I). How does
that make sense? So (U/I) but what came out of that
argument was the leadership was that (U/I) they dont
see the caucus as (U/I) speaking as one then that kind
of like makes us (U/I) in a frivolous way (U/I) really
accomplish a thing. So its not, its not necessarily that
they (U/I) as much as it is like how do we be successful.
Weve always been able to raise hell, but at the end of
the day (U/I) our thing is that we have to figure out how
do we pick the right argument, the one worthy of a fight
if were going to get leadership to respond to us (U/I)
makes sense and, and we all feel comfortable being
united behind it but (U/I) we got some people who act
like they were (U/I) the enemy. You know that (U/I).
TA
Well they are.
RW
Yeah. Ah hmm.
TA
Right?
RW
Ah hmm.
TA
We agree on that?
14 | P a g e
T-41 January 31, 2011
RW
Right.
TA
Ok. Look at me.
RW
Yes.
TA
Right.
RW
(U/I) but he, but he wrote a letter. You know he wrote a

letter saying that he is ahm he no longer wants to be a
member of the Black Caucus (U/I). Im gonna publish
the letter too.
TA
Do you think. Well let me, if you publish it.
RW
Ah hmm.
TA
What, what do you think the repercussions are going to

be?
RW
I dont care, for him maybe because that he wrote it.

(U/I) I mean he didnt hide it. He, he said it himself
(U/I). I mean he, he put it out there first. So (U/I) but,
but (U/I) came to me today and said why dont we
publish it? It really wasnt that important to me.
TA
Ah hmm.
RW
But he has.
TA
Thank you dear.
RW
But that was.
TA
Here you go.
RW
That was his decision. Ahm he represents African

Americans in the district so how does he go back to his
district and tell people--
15 | P a g e
T-41 January 31, 2011
TA
Thank you.
RW
That I dont want to be there (U/I).

(U/I).
TA
[8:36] Hmm. I will tell you this. Part of the back lash
that youre going to be facing eventually is not an issue.
Has to do with this little situation between Cruz and
(U/I).
RW
Who?
TA
Rosita.
RW
(U/I).
TA
Working in unison against you personally. I dont know

how you combat that.
RW
Those two working against us?
TA
Ah hmm.
RW
Well I dont want to get into a fight with Rosita (U/I). I

think that she can be a loose cannon (U/I). Its just the
kind of a person she is. (U/I) But shes also painted
herself to be like the victim. You got to be careful with
her. When she was doing stuff she did before she went
out and told the press, she was on TV and the radio a
lot, talking about how she was being punished for
voting for what she thought was in the best interest of
her constituents (U/I).
TA
Shes made her bed many years ago but can I say
something to you?
RW
Um hmm.
TA
[10:40] In New York, part of what works particularly in

the general assembly has to do with the ability of the
different caucus chairs being able to help finance some
16 | P a g e
Our by-laws said
T-41 January 31, 2011
of the efforts of their members, their caucus members.

Now I guarantee you if Rosita thought that you could be
helpful to her-RW
Um hmm.
TA
She wouldnt challenge you.
RW
Right.
TA
You know and Im not the only one that saying this. I
mean all guys who are lobbyists besides the fact that
were, were trying to figure out which way the wind is
going to blow in terms of this privatization in the liquor
stores. Beyond that, if you could create some unity and
you know less of the fragmented effort, it would be
helpful. I mean look we appropriated I dont know its,
its about ten thousand dollars per committee.
RW
Um hmm.
TA
Thats a little less than a hundred thousand dollars.

How many reps can raise a hundred thousand dollars?
Forget that. How many reps can raise ten thousand
dollars in twenty minutes?
RW
(laughing).
TA
You know what I mean. Its not going to happen.
RW
Right.
TA
Thats what made Dwight so damn successful.
RW
Made who?
TA
Dwight. Dwight.
RW
Oh yeah.
TA
You know.
17 | P a g e
T-41 January 31, 2011
RW
Yeah, but then he had (U/I).
TA
Yeah.
RW
(U/I).
TA
[12:27] But, but the thing is. Youre considered senior

member of the House. I mean even though the Rs have
much of the control, there is still room to negotiate if
you can provide a reason to them for having to
negotiate. You know. And, and one of the critical, one
of the critical pieces and I, I dont know how you, how
you get around it because I think its a little too early to
tell. But part of the concession has to be not just
whats right for the constituents today, but long term.
Lets look at this.
First of all, the leadership in
Pennsylvania is probably not going to change for the
next eight years.
RW
(U/I).
TA
Right.
RW
Ah hmm.
TA
Thats probably a given.
RW
Ah hmm.
TA
Beyond that, you got to figure out that you got such
young members in, in your caucus. Tony, Vanessa,
Michelle. When I say young in terms of time served.
RW
Ah hmm.
TA
You know. Youve really got to become that beacon of

hope you know and leadership is not a popularity
contest. You know, so you almost got to say to yourself
what do I want out of this on a week-by-week basis.
18 | P a g e
T-41 January 31, 2011
RW
Ah hmm.
TA
Because they dont know where the money is. Thats

number one. They dont know how to raise money.
And then they dont know anybody to help them raise
money. Your vice-chair doesnt even have a chief-ofstaff man.
RW
No.
TA
RW
Ah hmm.
TA
Thats, that is an incredible story and situation.
RW
She hasnt even had staff the whole term.
TA
And then three thousand dollars in fines. Thats

ridiculous.
RW
Thats how much her fines are?
TA
Yeah.
RW
Three thousand dollars in fines?
TA
Ah hmm.
RW
What for filing reports late (U/I)?
TA
[14:23] Ah hmm. I dont know item by item what the

ahm what the line items were but in terms of the
aggregate amount.
RW
Ah hmm.
TA
Its three grand. Thats between us. Right?
RW
Wow. Well I know last month she didnt get a paycheck

because she failed to file a report, that was due at the
19 | P a g e
T-41 January 31, 2011
end of November.
TA
Ah hmm.
RW
Then they charged her you know twenty dollars a day

she didnt get that done until almost the end of the
month. This month. So she just, she, shes (U/I). She
has a lot of issues, man.
TA
Thank you.
???
Now be careful not to touch the bowls. They are (U/I)

very hot.
TA
You know what. Can you take this?
???
Yes I can.
TA
Thank you. You want another one of those?
RW
Yeah.
TA
Arnold Palmer. You dont drink?
RW
(U/I).
TA
This is just a Diet Coke.
RW
(U/I).
TA
You know what. The place that we were going to more,

more as we come up here is ah the Firehouse.
RW
(U/I).
TA
Yeah.
RW
(U/I) down the street.
TA
Yeah. I like that place. I thought this was really nice

too. You know and its close. I figured you might be at
20 | P a g e
T-41 January 31, 2011
the Crowne. Its just across the street you know.

RW
Yeah (U/I).
TA
What do you think about, you think you could work

with her, or no?
RW
Who Rosita? Who Louise? (U/I). I mean her and I (U/I).

We hang out a lot (U/I) at different community stuff
(U/I).
TA
Yeah.
RW
(U/I).
TA
I hear the but.
RW
Yeah. Im not sure. Im not sure. Part of her problem is

that she comes across sometimes (U/I) demeanor about
her that turns people off. Talk down to people (U/I).
She respects me. I could work with her. I just got to
work with her (U/I). Just have to keep (U/I). You know
what though? Dwight always used to say, You got to
have money. You got to raise money. You got to have
money.
TA
[18:35] Can I tell you something?

aside a half a million dollars.
RW
Really?
TA
Um hmm.
RW
Wow.
TA
Im looking, ah, one, two, three hundred North Third

Street across the street from the Verizon Building.
RW
Um hmm.
TA
Were ready to set up shop.

21 | P a g e
Weve already put
T-41 January 31, 2011
RW
Hmm.
TA
You know. Cause Steve Wodjak and them theyre not

going to be able to do (U/I).
RW
No?
TA
No. (U/I). Not to that extent. But there are other

lobbying groups who are very, very ah connected.
RW
(U/I).
TA
Thats the word

relationships.
RW
I havent seen him up here lately.
TA
He was up here, he was up here last week.

were.
RW
I seen the girl that works for him. Holly?
TA
Holly Kunzler? Yeah.
RW
(U/I).
TA
[19:47] I just, I dont, I would like to help the caucus

members, but you know the truth is you, you almost
have to be like John the Baptist you got to be the voice
of one in the wilderness. You need to devise almost
like a 4-2-1 strategy. Four chairs you know constantly
communicating. Two people representing both sides of
the issues on behalf of the caucus and then you as the
leader in the back supporting the decision that comes
out of the caucus. I mean that in my opinion and I
mean excuse me, certainly youve been at this longer
than I have, but just from, just looking from outside in,
its too much strife, Ron. Too much like its no longer
there. The honey pots melted away. Theyre trying to
feed at the same trough that some of the other
for
it.
22 | P a g e
They
got
their
own
We both
T-41 January 31, 2011
democrats are feeding at. Thats not going to happen

and they certainly dont have the relationships like
some of the other Rs. You know even just outside of
Philadelphia. Take for example John Taylor. You know
what I mean.
They dont have those kinds of
relationships.
RW
Okay.
TA
I know Johns going to be the guy sort of rolling the

dice, figuring out whats the next move.
RW
Right.
TA
You know. Hows your relationship with him?
RW
Oh good. I always kept a good relationship with him.

Hes a reasonable guy (U/I). We both have so many
interests. (U/I).
TA
Ah hmm.
RW
(U/I) He has because John Perzel (U/I) become like the

main guy as far as ahm Vince Fenerty (U/I).
TA
Fenertys son is in a world of trouble I think.
RW
Is he?
TA
Something happened. This is a couple months ago

was on the phone with somebody and then ah.
RW
His son?
TA
Vince. Yeah. Yeah.
RW
I didnt know he had a son.
TA
[22:05] Yeah. I dont know ah what the situation is. I

mean things that dont concern me, I, Ill, I swear to God
I try not to even listen.
23 | P a g e
T-41 January 31, 2011
RW
Yeah.
TA
You know. Its too much. You know. Im trying to keep

our focus. The other thing is this.
RW
Ah hmm.
TA
How the hell did Peyton wind up on transportation?
RW
I dont know. I think ahm (U/I).
TA
Youre on professional licensure. Right?
RW
(U/I).
TA
Yeah.
RW
(U/I).
TA
Ah hmm.
RW
(U/I) that and appropriations.
TA
Can I tell you something?
RW
Ah hmm.
TA
He voted for Dermody?
RW
(U/I).
TA
Im telling you.
RW
(U/I).
TA
Ron look. Our job is to know what, whats going on.
RW
Right.
TA
Right?
24 | P a g e
T-41 January 31, 2011
RW
(U/I).
TA
He voted for him. That is going to be one of the three

(U/I).
RW
Yeah but he was ahm, he was ahm, Dermody ran under,

unopposed right? You mean (U/I).
TA
No. Check your records. Tell him you voted for him. I
dont know if you could even.
RW
(U/I).
TA
I dont even know if, if they would disclose that.
RW
Ah hmm.
TA
But Im telling you, he voted for him.
RW
(U/I).
TA
You know my information is usually right on point.
RW
Yeah. So what is your relationship with Tony?
TA
[23:54]
You know what, Im going to tell you
something. When he first came out, right, Maliks son
called me and he was like yo, Ty. This kid is coming
out of Frankford man, hes just like he needs some
help. He needs some money. But I was not really first
of all I didnt know who he was.
RW
Ah hmm.
TA
Or where he came from. I knew he had a relationship

with Seth. I mean Seth and I use to smoke cigars
together you know what I mean. I, he knows me, I know
him you know what I mean.
RW
Right.
25 | P a g e
T-41 January 31, 2011
TA
But I dont, Im, Im telling you eventually Tonys going

to be become an integral part of your caucus. Hes not
going anywhere. You know Marias been trying to
knock him off. Its not going to work.
RW
Right.
TA
That young fellow who hes got as his chief of staff.
RW
Ah hmm.
TA
For his (U/I).
RW
Ah hmm.
TA
He may try to usurp Tonys fire but thats not going to

happen either.
RW
Ah hmm.
TA
You know.
RW
Well do you think Maria (U/I).
TA
Ah hmm.
RW
His fight has always been with Tina Tartaglione (U/I).
TA
Well remember her most recent fight was with Marnie

Almonte.
RW
Ok.
TA
You know.
RW
Yeah. Tony, he was just a lucky guy. He did come out

of nowhere. Ahm and he won because the other two
guys was fighting each other they werent even paying
attention to him.
26 | P a g e
T-41 January 31, 2011
TA
Ah hmm.
RW
(U/I) he cant beat us. They knocked each other out and
left him standing. Bingo, he wins by default.
TA
[25:43] Look the guy that, that we were trying to talk

to, have a conversation with, turns out its not going to
be necessary cause he cant you know, Kenyatta
Johnson.
RW
Yeah.
TA
No go.
RW
Yeah.
TA
Leave that alone.
RW
Yeah.
RW
But he might, hes supposed to be running for council,

right?
TA
Ah the word on the street is that he is, but the problem

is not him, its his chief of staff (U/I), the problem.
RW
Oh big time. (U/I) crazy. Is he still on his staff?
TA
As far as I know.
RW
(U/I).
TA
I havent checked recently.
RW
(U/I) you know hes got a bad history with them two.
But thats (U/I).
TA
That, thats you know, and the other thing now do, well
word, I dont, I dont know if ah I dont know how long,
how Jewell is going to fair with this situation that is
very, very difficult to avert the sheriffs office. I dont
27 | P a g e
T-41 January 31, 2011
think its wise to try to even make that move you know.
RW
Yeah. (U/I) but the mayor, the mayor of Philadelphia

(U/I), the mayor has no (U/I). He wants that. He dont
want ah, he dont want ah let it go to elections. He
wants (U/I) and he might be able to get away with it
(U/I).
TA
DWRT.
RW
And the thing about that.
TA
Well you know (U/I) relief, it had nothing to do with

vote. It had to do with Carl Singley.
RW
Hmm.
TA
[28:21] Singley, the, the contract went out to bid right.

The contract is eight million dollars. Multi-million
dollar contract.
RW
Right.
TA
So Singley is actually representing the ah GC prior to

the new bid. And then they accused one of the guys in
the finance department of bid rigging but you know
who Carl Singley is man. He will say whatever is
necessary to get his point across. I mean you know you
dont get to be the dean of the law school for no reason.
You know what youre doing.
RW
Right. Right. Right.
TA
You know.
RW
Right.
TA
The City of Philadelphia will take care of itself because

Nutters got guys who run (U/I) foundation. Hes got
Doris Hamilton, hes got a bunch of heavy hitters.
28 | P a g e
T-41 January 31, 2011
RW
Ah hmm.
TA
You know and, and the truth is, ah people like him you
know. They do not see him as a conniving underhanded person who will not keep your word. They see
him as someone who is sincere. And the state house
has to almost take care of itself because again you know
its like were looking at John (U/I).
What could he
possibly do in that role? Zero. The only people who will
have some --
???
Your food will be up very shortly.
TA
Thank you dear.

Who will have some kind of
maneuverability are the folks on appropriations.
RW
Right.
TA
Thats it. Because at least you have the option to

oppose and youve got the option to support.
RW
Right.
TA
[30:14] You support enough. Then you get to pick one.

I mean if you guys again can form some kind of unison
in, in your voice and I cant see it, I cant see you,
Jewell, and Cherelle doing that. I just cant because
look at where shes coming from.
RW
Yeah.
TA
The man walked her down the aisle.

upset.
RW
Yeah.
TA
RW
Shes the one that was screaming to (U/I).
29 | P a g e
Shes already
T-41 January 31, 2011
TA
Well hes onto other things.
RW
Really.
TA
You know. Ahm a couple people are speculating what

that may be. Ahm but I think he felt very, very, I dont
want to use the word embarrassed, but I think the word
is slighted, when they type up his name and just stuck
it on the door. I mean that seemed sort of out of place
and, and.
RW
What, on the new office?
TA
Yeah, on the new office. Yeah. You know.
RW
You ever go inside of his office for a meeting?
TA
Ah hmm. Huge.
RW
Huge man. (U/I).
TA
Do you know what his office (U/I).
RW
(U/I). I heard of seven million dollars. Wasnt it?
TA
Little bit more.

office.
RW
(U/I).
TA
RW
Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well that was in the paper. (U/I).
TA
[33:02] So Ive been told.

Im going to tell you
something else. Part of being in the leadership position
that you are in now, in order to look after your lambs,
so to speak, you have to be able to look after yourself.
You know what I mean. I dont, and, and part of that
looking after yourself is identifying who you can work
with. You know? I feel, Ill, Ill tell you something, I
He had two point two just for one
30 | P a g e
T-41 January 31, 2011
was, we were out last week because Im, Im pretty sure

that tomorrow is the first, probably by the third week of
February, we should have our office maybe third week,
maybe the end of the month and the piece that Im
trying to figure out is, ok so weve got, we got six chairs
right?
RW
Seven.
TA
Seven, but we only work, we only do care about six.
RW
Ok.
TA
Um, you know. Chester boys not one of our people.
RW
Ok.
TA
You see what Im saying?
RW
Yeah.
TA
Alright so for our, for our purpose, we have six.
RW
Ok.
TA
I mean he could be you know it, it depends. I dont

really, I mean, I have some people who know him who
like him. If I need that route, that, that road opened up,
it, its fine. Its like: how can we appropriate ten
thousand dollars a committee? Who can we sort of
reach out to? And, and honestly, the first person I
thought about was you cause I dont trust some joker. I
dont.
RW
Okay. Alright.
TA
I shouldnt say that. But, but thats how I feel. Because

they dont understand this. They dont understand
that.
RW
Right.
31 | P a g e
T-41 January 31, 2011
TA
You know what I mean? When you say something, just

do it.
RW
Um hmm.
TA
I dont want to hear fifty million excuses.
RW
Let me know how, you know, I can be of, how I can be

helpful.
You know, um, I just got a look at the
members, look at the leadership. You know leadership
is always supposed to be able to devise a solution. Part
of being a leader.
TA
Besides, besides, um, I guess it would be -- Tony didnt

raise that much right? (U/I).
RW
(U/I).
TA
(U/I). How much did he (U/I)?
RW
Last time (U/I)?

He doesnt have, I mean he has
fundraisers, but to get you a total amount that he raised
(U/I).
TA
If you could work with three, lets divide it by fifty

percent. If you could pick three of the chairs that you
could work with, who? Louise?
RW
Louise. Absolutely her. Um, well, you know who I want

to work with? I want to work with, um, you talking
about like as a caucus, Black Caucus?
TA
Yeah.
RW
I really would like to work with (U/I), I would like to

work with Rosita. I think she is, shes gonna need
protection because they getting ready to come after
her-- [36:50]
TA
Whos getting ready to come after her?

32 | P a g e
T-41 January 31, 2011
RW
(U/I) Meehan, (U/I) Jewell claims that Dwight, and I

dont even think hes (U/I). He said four people (U/I)
are going to come after her in the next election. [37:34]
TA
Believe it. Because those names are very familiar.

Those are the folks who voted against him.
RW
Oh. Brian nominated (U/I). Curtis Thomas. He said he

saw Rosita (U/I).
TA
[38:13] Im going to tell you why. And, and whether

she did or not is almost ahm, its almost one of those
things that simply doesnt matter. Look at what she
had in terms of committees. Look at the assignments
and then look at the budget that she had. Shes been
there for a long time.
RW
Oh yeah. (U/I).
TA
You know. He never really treated her and a couple of

other people with respect. I mean theres no other
word for it. You know. A, again, theres you know
sometimes you and, and our guys. We talk among
ourselves all the time. If you said to me, these are the
three people that I want you guys to work with, I just
want some kind of assurance that Wodjac if hes steps
in and says hey Ron you know we want to work with
you. I mean I was here first. Thats number one.
RW
Right.
TA
Number two I think you know me better than, than

Steve.
RW
Right.
TA
And the other piece of this I dont want somebody just

you know muscling in. Because we will bring, I can
bring resources but its like do I have your word that
were not going to get into a place where were
33 | P a g e
T-41 January 31, 2011
marginalized.
You know cause my guys are from
Trinidad man. They dont know anything about this
stuff. They got someone theyre trying to make some
things work you know, trying to look at some other
opportunities you know.
???
Be careful. The bowls are very hot. They can be.
TA
Thank you.
???
(U/I).
TA
Thank you.
RW
(U/I).
TA
Yeah. Food here is actually pretty decent.
RW
Yeah. (U/I). Steve is working with the, ahm, (U/I).
TA
Not that I know of, that Im aware of.
RW
(U/I).
TA
Health care. Hes got a lot of the health care contracts.
RW
(U/I).
TA
Im sorry?
RW
How involved is he with the state taking over, I mean

not the state, the state selling the liquor stores?
TA
[40:36] I dont, I dont believe that ah that he is

involved. And if he is, you know they kept that under
wraps. As I told you before, you listen to all of the
gossip, it gets to be too much. You know. Cause if I tell
you something, (U/I).
RW
(U/I).
34 | P a g e
T-41 January 31, 2011
TA
Wheres he going to get all of her juice from now?
RW
(U/I).
TA
And that girl (U/I). Shes damaged goods.

Thats
DeWeeses wife (U/I). Thats my only concern is that. I
dont mind working with Louise. Who else did you say?
Louise?
RW
Louise. Maybe ahm ah how about Curtis?
TA
Thomas?
RW
(U/I).
TA
Ok.
RW
(U/I). I talk to him a lot.
TA
Ah hmm.
RW
Yeah.
(U/I).
TA
Hmm.
RW
(U/I). But a lot of other people like (U/I) but hes off a
lot. Hes kind of (U/I).
TA
John.
RW
Yeah. He claims this is his last term though.
TA
Yeah.
RW
Who else we got, Curtis? You dont like (U/I).
TA
[1:46] Its not, its not, no, no, no, no, no. Its not like,
I feel as though he knows things.
35 | P a g e
He can go
T-41 January 31, 2011
its just where hes situated.

RW
Ok.
TA
Now if you want to work with him, Ill work with him.
You know.
RW
He may need the help too.
???
How is everything?
TA
Good.
???
Wonderful.
TA
Thank you.
man.
RW
Ah hmm.
TA
And he cant do anything without Pileggis say so

anyhow.
RW
No he cant (U/I).
TA
You know what I mean? But if you want to reach out to

him on the (U/I) I mean Ill help that. Ill help you.
RW
Right.
TA
You know. Cause hes been there a long time.
RW
Oh yeah.
TA
And he will forever be a chair. You know. Plus he

doesnt upset the balance. You know. Hes a preacher
too wasnt he?
RW
Hes a preacher.
TA
Yeah.
Its just the fact that hes out of Chester
36 | P a g e
T-41 January 31, 2011
RW
And hes been there for me you know.
TA
Ok.
RW
He was black caucus chair before me. He gave me

advice (U/I) on what to be careful about, and he always
respected, you know (U/I).
TA
[2:59] And if you have to put one of those chairs on

reserve, who, who would you pick as number four?
RW
Reserve, probably Preston.
TA
Joe. Now what committee is he in.
RW
(U/I).
TA
How could that be helpful to us?
RW
(U/I) What committees (U/I).
TA
Appropriations.
RW
(U/I).
TA
Banking.
RW
(U/I).
TA
Professional licensure.
RW
(U/I).
TA
You guys dont have anybody on the judiciary.
RW
But thats not over were gonna get somebody on there.
TA
Ok. But the, the name of the game is will they listen to
you. You know what I mean.
37 | P a g e
T-41 January 31, 2011
RW
They did when I was on there.
TA
Ok.
RW
(U/I) for a whole two years.
TA
Ok.
RW
Oh yeah..
TA
Now that would be helpful.
RW
Yeah. Did you hear it?
TA
Yes.
RW
We gonna get somebody over there. It might be me,

because everybody says I should be doing (U/I).
TA
You should be. You were there.
RW
Yeah (U/I). I might get that back, but I dont want it

back if it means I cant have appropriations.
TA
Right, of course.
RW
They considered that as a promise to the committee.
TA
Sure. [4:56]
RW
So I want it back. I want that.

committees I was in before.
TA
Ah hmm.
RW
Well I know its selfish (U/I).
TA
Not really if you know what youre doing. Whys that

selfish.
RW
(U/I).
38 | P a g e
I really want all the
T-41 January 31, 2011
TA
You know what youre doing.
RW
(U/I).
TA
Right.
RW
Cause ahm I might, I might get judiciary (U/I).
TA
[5:38] Now Im going to tell you something. If you

could find it possible to steer your efforts to the liquor
committee.
RW
Um hmm.
TA
Thats the one. I mean the judiciary is also helpful, but

if we absolutely had to pick one, it would be liquor.
RW
And theres no blacks on there at all.
TA
None. The other piece of this. I dont understand why

and, and maybe you can help me with this. Most of the
foreclosures that are taken place in Philly.
RW
Right.
TA
Are for black folks right?
RW
(U/I).
TA
How come nobodys on banking? What is that?
RW
(U/I) I dont think nobody tried to get on it (U/I).
TA
But it almost seems and I mean Ive thought this for a

long time. It seems like the committees are segregated.
RW
It is segregated but (U/I) how do we get respect, how

(U/I) get together (U/I) be against something (U/I).
Whatever it is. (U/I) when something bad happens.
(U/I). Four members were there. (U/I) and spoke. The
39 | P a g e
T-41 January 31, 2011
mayor came from the city of Philadelphia and spoke.

TA
Who.
RW
(U/I).
TA
Im curious. Go ahead. Im sorry.
RW
And we want to talk about getting something done.

(U/I) when they come and dont see (U/I) it would have
been a great time (U/I). They need us. They need the
Black Caucus (U/I).
TA
[10:02] Let me say this to you about that. Your guys

really need to try to come together. Find one or two
issues make sense that are timely. And that you can get
financial support for. In other words it cant be
homelessness right?
RW
Ah hmm.
TA
It cant be that. It has to be something that makes good

financial sense. It has to be. And it cant be better
roads, and it cant be, it cant be anything in the
abstract. Do you follow what Im saying? I mean it
cant be anything to do with education either because
most of the stuff, most of the, the, the, the issue with
education not going to be you know improvements,
theyre going to be cuts. So you, you dont want to pick
something that is unpopular by default. You dont want
that. Mothers against drunk driving there is no money
(U/I). There is a lot of empathy, a lot of sympathy but
theres no money for that. As a matter of fact you will
find that seven out of ten causes a lot of sympathy, lots
of empathy, doesnt make good financial sense.
RW
(U/I).
TA
This is, this is. Go ahead.
RW
The game (U/I).

40 | P a g e
T-41 January 31, 2011
TA
[11:57] Let me just talk about the privatization of the

liquor stores first. We could lobby the manufacturers
(U/I) to create a fund that allows for that, that consumer
education. Anybody whos on the consumer affairs
committee can handle that. You know. Besides that
RW
Thats Joe Preston.
TA
Ok. We got to, you know, you know what it is too. You
and I got to meet a little bit more frequently because
were ready to give. Its just what are we giving for.
RW
Ok.
TA
You know what I mean? Ive got them. You know what I
mean?
RW
Okay.
TA
Ive got them. Its no issue. Its just how can we, what,
ok so we, we look at consumer education, right? We get
some, some, some effort behind it. And then we look at
maybe one or two in the next week that makes sense
and then well try to do something with that. And each
time you know well just, just make sure that who you
decide to work with is somebody you can work with.
You know what I mean? I mean really work with and if
theyre not going to constantly question (U/I).
RW
You say a chair or a member?
TA
I would prefer a chair simply because of status, but if

its a member and were trying to create some debt then
a member works just as fine, you know?
RW
(U/I) Definitely Louise, and probably Curtis. Right off

the top of my head.
TA
Ok. [13:52].
41 | P a g e
T-41 January 31, 2011
RW
(U/I) but he does do his homework.
TA
Well hes a lawyer. Hes going to do his homework you

know.
RW
(U/I). I see his potential, and he hasnt burnt me.
TA
Ah hmm.
RW
You know and ahm to my knowledge (U/I).
TA
[16:31] Ill tell you what our thoughts are on him. Hes
not a great communicator. Hes not a great facilitator.
RW
Right.
TA
But he is action-oriented.
RW
Yeah.
TA
You know.
RW
(U/I). And I dont think hes a great motivator because

when I look at the streets (U/I) since hes been mayor, I
dont think the people, I dont think (U/I). I dont think
people respond to him (U/I).
Video Ends. Switch back to Audio Tape #40.
TA
[1:30:05] People, people see him in the light of hes a

little heart but at the end of the day, I trust him to do
the thing thats right by me as well.
RW
Yeah.
TA
And, and, and, and thats saying more. You know Ron,
you have a lot of Philadelphia relationships man. I had
no idea you came up from (U/I) too.
RW
Yeah man. Eastern Shore.
42 | P a g e
T-41 January 31, 2011
TA
Yeah.
RW
Yeah. Yeah.
TA
A lot of relationships.
RW
Yeah.
TA
You know.
RW
Yeah.
TA
So, so being able to sort of engage or caucus, I mean, I,

I, yesterday, the day, not yesterday Im sorry. Friday,
Thursday, Tuesday of last week, I went about meeting
with so many folks. Again these are not Philadelphia
folks, these are folks who are migrating to the United
States. Things are changing in Trinidad. And so, not
only re we able to pull resources from home, but were
able now to pull resources from the folks who migrated
before this set of folks.
RW
Hmm.
TA
You know what I mean? And it took me twelve years to

be in this position but nobody questions when I tell
them I need x, thats real, its not ah a situation where
theyll say oh well you know we dont agree with this.
No I run (U/I), but for all intent and purposes-- sure why
not. Some coffee at least.
???
Coffee?
TA
Yeah.
???
Ok.
TA
Would, do you have cappuccino?
???
Cappuccino? Yes.
43 | P a g e
T-41 January 31, 2011
TA
You want one drink for the road man? You want a
drink? Enjoy yourself. What do you want?
RW
A drink of what?
TA
Whatever you like. Im sure shell facilitate that.
RW
Do you have wine?
???
Wine?
RW
Yeah, you do have wine over here.
???
Ok.
RW
Yeah.
???
Coffee for you?
TA
Ahm no Ill have a glass as well.
???
(U/I).
RW
(U/I).
???
(U/I).
TA
[1:32:28] Why not. I never get to have dinner with him

so sure. (U/I) the packet itself, I mean, I dont know
how many guys at least now can really put anything
together. Number one, its too difficult and number
two, everybodys broke. So unless you have ahm the
ability to kind of reach out to folks who are recent
migrants, theyre coming here with some money or
theyve been here and they have grown some of their
resources (U/I) college. They got a professional license
like accounting or something like that.
???
(U/I).
44 | P a g e
T-41 January 31, 2011
TA
Thank you dear. If you can get any of those folks on,
an accountant, a lawyer, a doctor, all those things are
very helpful. But its far and few between.
RW
Yeah.
TA
What you will find are a lot of business people. People

who have, Im telling you something. Like in your
neighborhood, you dont have a lot of Pakistani people
but in South Philadelphia, there are a lot of Pakistani
people. And guess what? They all own their own
business. Everybody. You know what I mean?
RW
South Philly?
TA
Yeah. They rent those garages.
RW
Right.
TA
They all have those food carts or those food trucks.
RW
Right.
TA
A carts making three or four hundred dollars a day.

They have trucks making about seven or eight. Do the
math. These guys speak no English. Theyre trying like
hell to stay off the radar.
RW
Right.
TA
[1:34:18] They dont have ah resources to learn to

speak English and that kind of stuff. They only thing
that they have are guys like me whove been here for
twenty something years.
RW
Yeah.
TA
And can sort of teach them the ropes.
???
Have a wonderful day guys.
45 | P a g e
T-41 January 31, 2011
RW
Thanks you too.
TA
Thank you dear.
???
Would you like to try one of these (U/I).
TA
Ahm.
RW
(U/I).
???
Do you need a few more minutes?
RW
(U/I). Ill have the vanilla ice cream.
???
Ice cream? Vanilla or chocolate?
RW
Vanilla.
???
Ok.
TA
Let me have the ahm the tiramisu.
???
Tiramisu?
TA
Yes.
???
Alright.
TA
How is it dear? Good?
???
Its really good.
TA
Ok.
???
Its made fresh.
TA
Ok. Well chair, heres to you.
RW
Yeah man.
TA
And a great year.

46 | P a g e
T-41 January 31, 2011
RW
Yeah.
TA
Successful year.
RW
(U/I) I got two more years to be in this position (U/I).
TA
What would you do?
RW
I dont know.
TA
You talking about leaving the House?
RW
No.
TA
Oh.
RW
(U/I) to have me leave to run for that city council seat,

but Im looking for something bigger here (U/I).
TA
Stay here. Dont go down there. Philadelphia is a war

zone.
RW
Yeah.
TA
You know this whole thing with Cindy Bass, this is

going to become a mess. Then you got Marion looking
at Jamie cross-eyed again you know. Its too much.
They, they, they were talking about pushing Cherelle
into Donnas seat. That will never happen. Not going
to happen. Number one thats not even her district.
RW
No, no, shed have to move. Shed have to move.
TA
Then theres you know.
RW
(U/I).
TA
And then the situation with Jewell.
RW
Yeah.
47 | P a g e
T-41 January 31, 2011
TA
(U/I).
RW
I dont know if hes going to commit (U/I) I dont think

its going to happen.
TA
I think a lot of people wasted their money.
RW
Ah hmm.
TA
[1:36:20] Because he and this is between us ok? He had

a situation going on with some Korean folks from the
Asian Federation. I was on that board.
RW
Ah hmm.
TA
Ah things didnt pan out.
RW
Ah hmm.
TA
Some folks are out some money.
RW
Yeah. Yeah.
TA
Thats Jewell.
RW
Yeah.
TA
You know. For better or worse.
RW
Yeah.
TA
Thats Jewell. He says things before they happen.
RW
Yeah.
TA
Thats the problem.
RW
Yeah.
TA
Cause people dont like that.

48 | P a g e
T-41 January 31, 2011
RW
Ah hmm.
TA
You know what Im talking about.
RW
But he, but he cant keep stuff to himself.
TA
Well you see its like this. The parking authority was
very, very important for a very long time. So when
Clarisse got jammed she just ran. That would have
been a great platform for him but he chose to leave it
alone because of his own misdeeds.
RW
Ah hmm.
TA
And thats ok. Jewell you know he pushed it so many

directions so quickly and people see him as somebody
thats not focused. Look at the Earline (U/I) situation.
You know she dont need to be no traffic court.
RW
(U/I).
TA
Come on man. You know Earline does.
RW
(U/I) rehab.
TA
Nose candy. Tick tock. Tick tock.
RW
Yeah.
TA
What time is it? Can I go out?
RW
(U/I).
TA
[1:38:02] I dont know for the life of me and I met her

daughter. Shes a very, very smart young woman. Um,
but unfortunately you know, we, we get these folks in
there and, and we trust the folks who put them in there.
You know. Its, its this whole traffic court situation,
parking authority situation, Im going to tell you
something. The clerk of quarter sessions has millions
49 | P a g e
T-41 January 31, 2011
of dollars thats owed to the city of Philadelphia. Its

money that cannot be collected.
RW
Right.
TA
Alright.
RW
Thank you.
TA
Thank you so much dear.
???
Do you guys need anything else right now?
RW
Nah. I dont.
TA
Do you want a cup of coffee for afterwards?
RW
No. No. Yeah. Yeah. Ok.
TA
I think after were done this, well probably.
???
Ok.
TA
A cup of coffee. Thank you. Thank you dear. So the

clerk of quarter sessions has millions of dollars thats
owed. Right. But its uncollectable.
RW
Yeah.
TA
Vivian Miller didnt do jack about it.

happen.
RW
Yeah.
TA
The other piece is this. Do you know how much money

is owed? You use to work there. The parking authority
has the actual ticket, they have the ticket with the
interest and the penalty and then they got the actual
charge (U/I).
RW
Right.
50 | P a g e
She just let it
T-41 January 31, 2011
TA
Ticket, interest, penalty and collection.
RW
Um hmm.
TA
Then you got the boot and tows.
RW
Um hmm.
TA
I mean there are five or six categories that you can

actually isolate. Pick one and say ok this is what I want
to have happen. This is the number of dollars we think
that are truly collectable and these are the resources
that were going to look at in order to help bring in
some revenue into the City of Philadelphia. Now why
isnt anyone looking at that?
RW
I dont know.
TA
You want me to tell you why? Cause Maria calls this

Puerto Rican guy named Michael Munoz. He owns this
company on, on Torresdale Avenue. Its called Revenue
Collections Bureau. See the Puerto Ricans man they
take care of themselves.
RW
Right. (U/I).
TA
Yeah. Sold the house.
RW
Hmm.
TA
And rolled.
RW
(U/I).
TA
Ah.
RW
(U/I).
TA
(Laughs). Is she anybodys tight friend.
51 | P a g e
T-41 January 31, 2011
RW
(U/I).
TA
[1:40:48] Hes actually a pretty nice guy.
RW
Ah hmm. (U/I).
TA
Ah hmm.
RW
I knew her when were growing up. (U/I).
???
How was the pie?
TA
Good.
???
(U/I).
RW
Ice cream is very good. (U/I). She got stupid man. She
cant ask for a recommendation (U/I).
TA
Ah ha.
RW
(U/I).
TA
You know why.
RW
(U/I).
TA
Come on now.
RW
Yeah.
TA
You know why.
RW
(U/I).
TA
Every time.
RW
Every time.
TA
Every time.
52 | P a g e
T-41 January 31, 2011
RW
(U/I).
TA
[1:42:33] Ah hmm. Ill tell you something. Jewell is

one of those guys he will cut the deal.
RW
Yeah.
TA
And seal the deal.
RW
Yeah.
TA
You will not know it.
RW
Yeah.
TA
One thing I have to give to him, hes slick. You know.
RW
(U/I).
TA
I told him one day. I was sitting down outside. We were

all just hanging out at my friends restaurant and I said
to him, I said Jay, watch what youre doing man
because you got this Korean boy and youre talking a
bunch of shit. You know what I mean.
RW
Yeah.
TA
And he was like I have no idea what youre talking

about. I said Jewell. Come on man this me youre
talking to.
RW
Right.
TA
What do you think I do all day.
RW
Yeah.
TA
RW
I know that you worked with those Koreans (U/I).
53 | P a g e
T-41 January 31, 2011
TA
Ah hmm.
RW
(U/I) Pay day loans. He was involved with that. (U/I).
TA
Hmm.
RW
(U/I) I know he fought for the Stop and Gos. He went

against me when I was trying to stop the bad behavior
with them. He went against me on the radio saying
nobody gonna stop them. You know what I mean? (U/I).
TA
Well the other thing is this right. They do not keep the
surroundings of those establishments even remotely
clean. Its ridiculous.
RW
(U/I).
TA
Right.
RW
(U/I).
TA
Were you ever on Education?
RW
Uh uh.
TA
Never huh?
RW
No never done that.
TA
Roebuck gets a lot of money.
RW
(U/I).
TA
[1:44:54] Jewell is trying to get ah oh my god. Theres

an Indian guy who owns a restaurant in Center City.
Hes trying to get some money from the guy right.
RW
Ah hmm.
TA
This is just between us.
54 | P a g e
T-41 January 31, 2011
RW
Ah hmm.
TA
The guy told him no. He started creating all kinds of

problems for him.
RW
Did he?
TA
Yeah. Guy called me up and he was like Ty come on

man.
RW
Yeah. Like a shake down.
TA
Ah hmm. Exactly a shake down.
RW
Thats what he does man. Thats what he does.
TA
He was trying to get money from the daycare centers.

That didnt work.
RW
Yeah.
TA
Jewell can only victimize people who dont, you ok?
RW
Yeah (U/I).
TA
Uh oh. Excuse me dear.
???
Yes.
RW
(U/I).
TA
There is. We need anoth, another glass.
RW
(U/I) flying around.
???
Ok.
TA
Another glass.
???
Absolutely.
55 | P a g e
T-41 January 31, 2011
TA
Thank you.
RW
Yeah so he had, um, I used to be with him a lot (U/I).
TA
He is old.
RW
Hes old. (U/I).
TA
Thank you.
RW
(U/I).
TA
[1:47:11] Im going to tell you something.

start, hes going to start wondering because.
RW
He already has.
TA
Whatd he say?
RW
He was tellin me, you got to be careful with this guy,

hes under investigation.
TA
Did he know that the case was already over?
RW
No.
TA
Jewells got to get his facts straight man.
RW
It dont matter.
TA
RW
He needs to get his facts together. He never waits to

get his facts together. He just want to say what he
wants to say when he wants to say it, and how he wants
to say it (U/I).
TA
Ron, can I
long time.
get vetted
who it is,
Once we
tell you something? Ive known you for a

Youve known me for a long time. When you
by any governmental agency, I dont care
and you have your license back, that only
56 | P a g e
T-41 January 31, 2011
says two things: one, you have your license, and two
clearly what they were checking out didnt check out.
RW
Ah hmm.
TA
You know what I mean. I went to Jewell and I said

Jewell I said listen. I, I put up three hundred thousand
dollars for this building in his neighborhood. This is
when he and I really got into a falling out. I said Jewell,
can you help us with a grant, man. He said, Ty, yeah
man no problem. Now it has twenty collection stations
upstairs. Desks, chairs, phones, that kind of stuff. And
then downstairs, I put a little law office.
RW
Yeah.
TA
I put it as a conference area in the, in the lower level. I

said listen, all we really need is probably fifty grand.
You know what he said to me.
RW
(U/I).
TA
It will cost you fifteen.
RW
He did?
TA
I said it will cost me what? I said Jewell Im just trying

to put in a neighborhood legal clinic man. This is your
neighborhood. You know that place was a heroin den.
RW
Right.
TA
You know where Im talking about. Twentieth and

Cambria. Right around from the, from where the ah the
Philabundance place is on Lehigh Avenue.
Mark
Niccoletti (sp?) just bought a whole bunch of stuff over
there. He was like fifty will cost you fifteen. I said
Jewell I didnt ask you the price. I asked you if you
would help me.
RW
What he want to do put 15 in his campaign.

57 | P a g e
T-41 January 31, 2011
TA
Yeah.
RW
(U/I).
TA
Yeah. And the thing about it is Ron honestly I, if I was

stuck, I probably would have done it.
RW
Right.
TA
But the truth is I wasnt stuck.
RW
Right.
TA
[1:50:17] You know what I mean. At the end of the day

look, some of, some of the neighbors came to me and
they were like if we could use it like an alcohol
anonymous place, Im looking for an attorney now that
we could put in there. You know. Money is not the
issue man. You know. Its not the issue. Can we please
do something together that makes good sense for
everybody involved.
RW
(U/I).
TA
Its just how he does it.
RW
(U/I).
TA
You know what I mean. Oh my god.
RW
He dont care. (U/I).
TA
Jewell is one of those guys clearly hes got some

relationships.
RW
Ah hmm.
TA
Ah some folks that told me you watch a guy dodge

fifteen bullets.
58 | P a g e
T-41 January 31, 2011
RW
Ah hmm.
TA
Eventually you have to question the marksmanship and

whether or not its a real gun.
RW
Yeah.
TA
RW
Yeah. Yeah.
TA
And Im not questioning the marksmanship.
RW
Yeah.
TA
And Im not questioning whether or not its a weapon.
RW
Right.
TA
Im questioning who the shooter is.
RW
Yeah who the shooter is.
TA
Right.
RW
Right.
TA
I know that day he saw me coming out, I think I was

coming out of your office, Im not sure. And he asked
me something like what are you doing here. I said what
are you doing here? What am I doing here? Come on
man.
RW
(U/I).
TA
Oh really.
RW
Yeah. (U/I).
TA
Oh ok.
59 | P a g e
T-41 January 31, 2011
RW
(U/I).
TA
Let me tell you something.
RW
(U/I).
TA
I can blow Jewell out of the, can I tell you something?
RW
Ah hmm.
TA
I can finance the guy to run after him now.
RW
Yeah. Yeah.
TA
The guy is already ready.
RW
Yeah. (U/I).
TA
Thats not true.
RW
(U/I).
TA
The thing about Jewell that you have to and actually I

like the guy.
RW
Ah hmm.
TA
[1:54:20] What I dont appreciate is his behavior. He

will say almost anything that comes into his head.
RW
Yeah he will.
TA
Thats also a problem.
RW
(U/I).
TA
You know Im standing there Im going back a few

years.
Im standing there with one of the vice
presidents from Bank of America. Young girl. Nice
looking girl.
60 | P a g e
T-41 January 31, 2011
RW
Yeah.
TA

He decides to make a
comment. Dont do that because shes not that type of
person. You know what I mean. Just respect that man.
RW
(U/I).
TA
Not something you can buy.
RW
He thinks a lot of himself. (U/I).
TA
You know. Ill tell you something. Where I really lost

all respect for him is when he got his girl that job with
Earlene. I was like Jewell come on man. You serious.
RW
Yeah. (U/I).
TA
And she is a difficult person to deal with.
RW
Who? Earlene?
TA
Uh hmm. Jewells girl.
RW
(U/I).
TA
I dont know her name.
RW
Oh. Lawanda (sp).
TA
Heavy set chick right?
RW
Yeah.
TA
Yeah.
RW
Yeah. Real thick. (U/I).
???
All finished with that sir?
61 | P a g e
T-41 January 31, 2011
RW
I am. And it was delicious.
???
Wonderful.
TA
Time for coffee.
???
Coffee? Two coffees?
TA
Thank you.
???
Do you need (U/I).
TA
Want a cappuccino?
RW
Yeah Ill have whatever you have.
TA
Yeah. Cream sure. Thanks.
???
Cappuccino? Coffee?
TA
Do you want coffee?
RW
What are you having?
TA
Ill have a cappuccino?
???
So two cappuccinos?
TA
Yeah.
???
Ok.
TA
Its steamed milk anyway.
RW
Yeah.
TA
Do you have any of that chocolate sauce?
???
I can see if I can get some from the back for you.
TA
Thanks.
62 | P a g e
T-41 January 31, 2011
RW
Yeah.
TA
Thats one of the reasons why nobody knows who I

meet with and I meet with.
RW
Right.
TA
Ahm what are conversations are like because of people

who are instigators like. Ill give you an example of
something. Norm Zarwin, you know who that is?
RW
Who?
TA
Norman Zarwin. Norman is a principal for Zarwin

Baum. Ok. Jewell tried to get a fundraiser through
them. He got in touch with David Oak. You know David
is always trying to run for some office so they gave him
a fundraiser. Jewell thinks hes in. Youre not in. How
are you going to be in with Norman Zarwin. First of all,
your last name doesnt start or end with the word gold.
RW
Ah hmm.
TA
If Goldstein, Silverstein. Something like that maybe.

You know. Stop playing games. He thinks that he is the
only person who understands how to politic.
RW
Yeah I know.
TA
And hes not the, hes not even, he, hes not even
capable of making a deal, I mean a real deal. And when
I say a real day, I mean over ten million dollars. Its
never cut a deal crap to deal with. Hes never done
that. You know when they were building the Fresh
Grocer and all that kind of stuff over on the east side of
Broad, he wasnt really involved. I mean Shirley called
him in and told him what was going to happen.
RW
Right.
63 | P a g e
T-41 January 31, 2011
TA
Because Wendell Whitlock and them, those were her

people. You know what I mean?
RW
Yeah.
TA
But eventually Andrew Karn, well his wife, you know,

that whole North Philadelphia scene is getting ready to
be shaken up because you remember Roxanne Jones
chief of staff? Mike Joyner?
RW
Yeah.
TA
Between us, me and you here.
???
(U/I).
TA
Thank you dear.
???
Do you need spoons (U /I).
TA
Ah Im ok. Thank you.
???
Ok.
TA
Actually you know what, bring them.
???
Ok.
TA
Thanks. Hes getting ready to run.
RW
(U/I).
TA
(U/I) he just asked me for twenty grand. I mean cause

thats what he thinks he needs. You know short term
cash.
RW
(U/I).
TA
No, no, no.
RW
(U/I).
64 | P a g e
T-41 January 31, 2011
TA
Is it a judge? Somebody running for judge maybe?
RW
Maybe.
TA
Im going to tell you something else. One of the union

boys (U/I).
RW
Oh yeah. (U/I).
TA
Ah hmm.
RW
Yeah (U/I).
TA
Kevin?
RW
(U/I).
TA
Mel.
RW
Ahm who else. (U/I).
TA
Gary.
RW
Gary.
TA
Williams.
RW
Yeah Gary Williams.
TA
Could you see Gary up here in a suit and a tie. Come on

now.
RW
(U/I).
TA
He got to cut those fingernails first.
RW
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
TA
And I like Gary.
65 | P a g e
T-41 January 31, 2011
RW
Yeah.
TA
Good guy. Hes a very good guy. Hes not malicious.
RW
No.
TA
Thats what I should say. Hes not malicious.
RW
He claims that ah (U/I).
TA
Whats Frank doing now? Nothing, right?
RW
Nah.
TA
Hes just home.
RW
(U/I). You know what I mean?
TA
[2:00:41] I thought you know, I really thought Harold

would have had that opportunity.
RW
Yeah.
TA
But Kenyatta boy.
RW
Yeah. Harold, he wants to be a candidate.
TA
For what?
RW
For council seat.
TA
Oh come now.
RW
Yeah he called me. He called me man.
TA
Its not going to happen.
RW
He said uhm (U/I).
TA
Well I will say this about that. I dont think so.
66 | P a g e
T-41 January 31, 2011
RW
I told (U/I). He got killed eight years ago (U/I).
TA
He is not, he is not helpful.

He, he, hes well
intentioned but hes not helpful. Ahm besides that, he
has people dont see him as a leader. They dont see
him as a source of information. They do not see him as
someone who cannot live without caring for his
constituency.
RW
Who? Hal?
TA
Yeah. They dont see him as any of those things. They

see him as a use to be cop and I love Harold. Harolds a
great guy.
RW
Yeah.
TA
If he was here, I would say the same thing.
RW
Yeah.
TA
They see him as use to be cop.
RW
Yeah.
TA
Use to be guy who caught bad guys.
RW
Yeah.
TA
Never really a state rep. He never brought any money

to that Point Breeze area. And thats where the money
is needed.
RW
Right.
TA
I mean Tony Peytons a freshman for all intents and

purposes.
RW
Right.
TA
Brought back five million already.

67 | P a g e
T-41 January 31, 2011
RW
Right.
TA
Everybody is sort of raised an eyebrow though. Dwight

gave Vanessa a million dollars to go and give to, they,
they, the (U/I) I guess its a bird sanctuary.
RW
Nobody could figure it out (U/I).
TA
Was that his friend?
RW
I dont know.
TA
Ok.
RW
Makes you wonder (U/I).
TA
Right.
RW
Yeah. (U/I).
TA
Is that your friend?
RW
Yeah.
TA
Yeah.
RW
Yeah.
TA
That, thats what I heard. Thats why Im saying it.
RW
Yeah. Yeah.
TA
You know. So many little kids need, need books and

youre giving a million dollars away to a bird sanctuary.
RW
Yeah man, nobody could figure that one out (U/I).
TA
I dont ah, I dont know what ah, what the logic was
behind that.
68 | P a g e
T-41 January 31, 2011
RW
Nobody did (U/I).
TA
Philadelphia has lost so much.
RW
(U/I).
TA
[2:05:12] If we can ah let me ask you something. If I

could raise a couple thousand bucks for like a cause
between you and, and maybe one or two other reps in
terms of folks who are not just the, the, the, the, the
caucus, but in terms of a committee. Which committee
would you say?
RW
Ahm (U/I).
TA
Yeah ah hmm. Cause we got to start moving. You know

what I mean. Its already the end of the month.
RW
(U/I) One of the things that I do. I just feel as though

we, one, one of my pet peeves is how do we more to
show veterans that we appreciate them, how do we do
more than show senior citizens (U/I). I believe we had
to do something where it would have impact in (U/I)
and nobody would be upset with you for doing it (U/I).
TA
Ah hmm.
RW
But in other (U/I).
TA
Ill tell you something. A lot of people admire your

staying power. I know we do you know. Beyond that, I
mean were sitting here were having dinner up in
Harrisburg, its after hours, youre doing the job after
hours. You know. Folks dont do that anymore Ron.
They just dont. You know nobody cares enough. They
dont care about the issues, they dont care about the
people, they dont care about the impact, they dont
care about the lives. I mean, its, look, Im going to tell
you something. Couple years ago we were doing a
foursome on a golfing trip, couple of senators and
theyre not from Philly. Theyre not from Pennsylvania.
69 | P a g e
T-41 January 31, 2011
Theyre from outside of Pennsylvania.

And their
number one concern was you know what are we going
to do later.
RW
Right.
TA
[2:09:36] You know a lot of people dont recognize the

fact that Pennsylvania is made up very, very hard
working public servants. The problem is you dont
have a lot, I mean you have wealth here but its not
uncommon wealth. You know what I mean. Its not like
California. Its not like Florida. Its not like Nevada, its
not, its, its not, its not like New York. You know. The
common guy in New York gots a couple dollars. Thats
one of the reasons I prefer to deal with people from the
migrant community thats not based in Philadelphia
because in Philadelphia you have a lot of stagnation
going you know. The real estate market is not doing
well. Nothing else is doing really well. Bio-Tech hasnt
even really come to Pennsylvania as of yet. I mean the
only big three that they got is that shale project, the
deregulation and then the privatization of the liquor ah
the liquor controlled stores.
RW
The liquor stores.
TA
The other piece is this. If you, if you really, really want

to look at something that would make a lot of money
and people just dont know how to utilize the resource
is the convention center. I mean they just dont know
how to market it. They dont. Philadelphia is not a
world class city but there are world class attractions
here you know.
RW
Well I hear that a lot of people are already (U/I).
TA
Ah hmm.
RW
Given though the expansion (U/I).
TA
Dwight did not do a great job. He did a job that was

70 | P a g e
T-41 January 31, 2011
great for him.

RW
(U/I).
TA
(U/I). Theyre worlds apart.
RW
Right.
TA
You know. And whether or not you know Rosita ah

whether or not she ah she voted for him, whether or not
the votes were cast for somebody else, but the point is
ahm she will be taken care of. She is a survivor. Shes
seen as a go-to person and thats, thats, thats the
other reason why I wanted to talk to you because see
this is what were doing here. This is very, very
important because you have a platform path. I dont
know you know Dwight tried to help Vanessa by making
her vice-chair. Honestly he did her a disservice because
people will see that she cannot, she cannot perform in
that capacity. She just cant do it.
RW
(U/I). I think shes trying to position herself to be chair

after (U/I).
TA
I dont know how much clout she has. I know she does
not have any money.
RW
Ah hmm. She has no money (U/I). She wants to

pretend. She likes to think she has money. She dont
have the money.
TA
Shes an activist.
RW
Shes an activist.
TA
Actually what we call her is a re-activist. All she does is

react.
RW
Right.
TA
Shes not pro-active about anything.

71 | P a g e
She just knows
T-41 January 31, 2011
quite a bit about the octave necessary to get the

attention of people who dont have anything else to pay
attention to.
RW
(U/I).
TA
You know.
RW
Yeah, but one of her main things is that, one of her

main problem is that she thinks she knows but she
dont know. There was a talk (U/I). He always had this
great saying that (U/I). He use to say it isnt the things
that get you in trouble, he said, it isnt the things that
get you in trouble. Ah no. It isnt the things that you
know that get you in trouble, its the things that you
know that just dont happen to be so that get you in
trouble. And thats her. It isnt the things she know
that get her in trouble, cause she knows things. But she
also thinks she knows things that just aint so, so she
knows that shes excited about something that at the
end of the day thats not true. You know, youre very
excited about something that just dont happen to be
so, and you know you try to slow her down.
TA
You cant.
RW
(U/I) if you are not around her then shes going to be all
over the place by the time you get to know her (U/I) you
get to wrap your arms around her (U/I) the damage is
done.
TA
Its already too late.
RW
Its already too late.
TA
[2:14:15] I, Ill tell you something. She ahm she

actually wanted to work with someone that I know,
another lobbyist, but you know his words were to me
and this was last week Thursday, a week before last
Thursday, nah it was a week before last Thursday. He
said you know ahm we just dont think that she has
72 | P a g e
T-41 January 31, 2011
ahm the footing, the platform or the capability. Thats

not good. That is not good man.
RW
She dont have none of those things. But what she has
is ah they helped her you know I used to tell her (U/I). I
told her, I said you couldnt have a better (U/I)
TA
Thats terrible.
RW
No but I told her the reason why is because shes going

to get help that she wouldnt have gotten before (U/I).
TA
Right.
RW
(U/I).
???
Together?
TA
Yes.
RW
(U/I).
???
(U/I).
TA
You can take it now hon.
???
Ok.
RW
(U/I).
TA
Can I have some change?
???
Absolutely.
TA
And I need a receipt.
???
(U/I).
TA
Thank you.
RW
(U/I).
73 | P a g e
T-41 January 31, 2011
TA
Ill tell you something with regard to Vanessa, I just

think you know eventually shes not going to be there.
Thats from me to you because
she does not
understand basic politics. Like youve been there for a
long time right? Just because Dwight is appropriation
chair or was, doesnt mean that she shouldnt have tried
to be a student of yours or at the very least try to
encourage a mentor relationship because at the end of
the day you could have helped her if you wanted to.
Shes, shes your neighbor literally. You know.
RW
Well I do, I do you know (U/I) some of the things that

dont happen is because of the fact that she will call me
first, she has began to call me more but she still does
things. We had a fundraiser over the weekend for a
school (U/I) where we had uhm it turned out to be good.
It was Saturday, it was amazing, in spite of the weather
you know, parents, students, faculty everybody came
out (U/I), it worked out perfectly, (U/I) the school was in
her district (U/I) but it moved to my district (U/I).
TA
Ah hmm.
RW
Parents came to me, they didnt go to her, they came to

me they asked me if I would help do a fundraiser. They
wanted to do a skate party (U/I). I thought about it, and
I said why dont you do a bowling party (U/I) might be
more fun. Skate (U/I) make people nervous. Lets do a
bowling party. I told them where to go for a bowling
alley.
???
(U/I).
TA
Thank you Jen.
???
Have a wonderful evening guys.
TA
You too.
74 | P a g e
T-41 January 31, 2011
RW
(U/I) person gave up the bowling alley totally for free.
TA
Wow.
RW
And gave everybody free bowling shoes and (U/I).

Know I know that she heard about this (U/I)
TA
Ah hmm.
RW
(U/I) she should have been a part of it (U/I).
TA
Well.
RW
You know but all her friend who are around her came to
that party to (U/I).
TA
Do you remember when I first came to you?

have been about four or five years ago.
RW
Ah hmm.
TA
[2:19:03] I mean I always admired you because I never

thought that you were somebody that I was not capable
of, of really talking to or somebody that I thought that I
could get advice from you know because we are
involved in so much and we still are. Theres a day care
center, theres Cambria Legal, its this, its that.
Somethings always popping up.
RW
Ah hmm.
TA
You know and the truth is, is that as, as, as the time has
gone on, and Ive gotten a little bit older in the game
and you try to understand some of the things you
know, one of the things that I learned is be very, very
careful about who you let into your circle. Now you
may not be the richest guy on the block, you may not
be the sharpest guy on the block, but just make sure
you know who you are dealing with.
RW
Right.
75 | P a g e
It must
T-41 January 31, 2011
TA
You know. I know in my heart you know Louise, Louise

knows a lot of lobbyists ok. Her son is one of the best
in the, in the state.
TA
And who does she invite to her house?
RW
Ah hmm.
TA
She dont invite none of them Wodjac boys. She invited

me.
RW
(U/I).
TA
You know.
RW
(U/I).
TA
What do you have in mind?
RW
Uhm you know Ill say this. The only thing I do is stay
focus on working for (U/I). After that things started to
happen (U/I).
TA
Let me ask you something. When, are, youre here

tomorrow, youre not here Thursday and Friday right?
RW
(U/I).
TA
[2:21:29] You know what would be helpful? This is

what would be helpful. If you could, and Im not telling
you to do this, its just a suggestion. Reach out to
Taylor. If you can position yourself to be on that
committee, and I dont know what kind of
conversations need to take place probably with
Dermody, probably with (U/I) ahm a way for you to
position yourself on the judiciary. If you can get into
the habit you know I, you know the old saying, success
is not a sometime thing, winning itself is (U/I). And you
even if your entire focus has been marginalized, you
76 | P a g e
T-41 January 31, 2011
cant be marginalized because you are the voice. You

are that person that people will look to not just for ahm
guidance, leadership, the ability to negotiate, they also
look for someone who can sort of breathe some fire and
I know thats not your typical personality but no matter
what you do or how you do it, everybodys watching.
Everybodys watching you know. You know that guy in
north Philly they call John the Baptist. You know John
right? He use to have.
RW
Ah.
TA
He use to have a cane, hed be screaming and the truth

of the matter is nobody really cared what he was talking
about. But he was the guy, the voice, that lone voice
that everybody heard. And Im not suggesting that you
be that because I know thats not your personality. I
know that. But now that youre in the position that
youre in, you know there are a lot of guys who will
come sit down and talk to you much like I am now.
Everybody has some things that would probably be
helpful but again you know its like for me its about
loyalty. Its not about anything else. I would never deal
with certain member of the House or of the Caucus
cause its, it you cant trust them. You cant put your
name on it. You cant you know I know most of the
stuff that we could do together one its important, two
it affects people in a positive way and three it makes
good financial sense. I mean thats leadership. At least
thats what I think leadership is. You know?
RW
[2:24:10] I know you used to always say you want to

chair my campaign or --
TA
Cause I could raise money man.
RW
Yeah.
TA
RW
Yeah.
Yeah.
77 | P a g e
T-41 January 31, 2011
TA
I could raise you know not too many guys on a humbug

just go sit there and raise twenty, twenty five thousand
dollars. You know what I mean? On a humbug. Just,
just get it done, you know? Just get it done because the
thing about it is this right. And Im sharing this with
you because I had the same conversation, ah, probably
like three or four weeks ago. I dont think you raised
over a hundred thousand dollars. I dont think so. I
can put you in a situation where its not a hundred
grand, but you will consistently raise small amounts of
money. Cause we can put it together for you. You
know?
RW
Yeah.
TA
And, and, and the truth is, it doesnt hurt. Im a

lobbyist so and, and we have, I would like to think, a
good working relationship.
RW
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
TA
And beyond that, we can put some of the caucus

members together. You could be that hand that literally
feeds them because I dont know how to get to Vanessa.
I really dont. Shes an activist. She likes to talk a lot.
Then she talks about things I really dont understand.
You know my colleagues dont understand her. Um,
give you a joke. She was in a meeting with somebody
like I guess it was the end of last year and had to move
it on the side and they were falling out. They were
falling -- Ron, Im telling you they were laughing like.
They were laughing like hell. I said that is horrible.
RW
If you could, it you could get, if you could, I would like

to be able to, to be able to, this is something that I
havent concentrated on a lot.
TA
U hmm.
RW
Its not that I havent had the ability to do better in

78 | P a g e
T-41 January 31, 2011
terms of fundraising.
should.
I dont concentrate on it like I
TA
I know.
RW
People always, like Dwights put together a team of

these two girls that he hired just to --
TA
You know who they are?
RW
Just to raise money.
TA
You talking about Jallilla (sp) and Ameena (sp)?
RW
Yeah.
TA
I know who they are.
RW
Just to raise money. (U/I) cause he was always talking

about it. To his credit he always would talk about it
(U/I).
TA
But if. Go ahead.
RW
And I never concentrated on it.

I guess I always
concentrate on working (U/I). I know if I had a problem
I would raise money cause (U/I) if you raise money your
raising it to fight a battle so if you dont have battles
then you dont need to raise money, and um, so I just
work hard so that hopefully that means that would
serve as, why challenge him? People used to tell me,
Ron work hard. If you work hard, then if somebody
wants to run against you, let them run against you; say
theyre going to do this, that and the other, and then
theyll be able to look and say, wait a minute we already
got Ron. Hes already here right now. Why do we need
you? But you know but the truth of the matter is it
wouldnt hurt to have a hundred thousand dollars. Or
two hundred thousand.
TA
Shit, Ron it wouldnt hurt to have ten grand. You know

79 | P a g e
T-41 January 31, 2011
what I mean.
RW
(Laughs)
TA
Because with the, the thing about it is with ten you can
leverage it to fifteen, fifteen to twenty-five. I mean
theres leveragability.
RW
Yeah.
TA
The other thing is this.
RW
Well I almost got 30 in there right now.
TA
Ok. Well thats a start.
RW
Yeah.
TA
You know, thats a start.
RW
About twenty-seven.
TA
Well we, we can round it out to thirty. Hows that?
RW
Yeah, yeah.
TA
But what I was going to say to you is this. You can work
hard, but hard work in politics is not insulation from
rivalry.
RW
No. Thats true.
TA
And, and I think thats what you were trying--
RW
Yeah.
TA
Trying to get to. The other piece is this. Seventy five

thousand dollars in two years time does not guarantee
that youre going to be able to stave off that opponent.
But a hundred and twenty five thousand dollars you see
what Im saying?
80 | P a g e
T-41 January 31, 2011
RW
Yeah.
TA
You need a database of a hundred and fifty to two

hundred people that will give you two hundred fifty
dollars just on the humbug.
RW
Yeah.
TA
You know?
RW
Yeah.
TA
I can, see the thing, the thing about it is this man. Its
like: how much do you want to work with our group?
Because at the end of the day I mean raising the money
is not really the issue. Its just if I, if can I work with
Representative Waters, will he listen to the stuff that
my people as they say, you know will they come back
and say oh he made me feel terrible, Tyron, you know?
There are some guys that I wouldnt even be having this
conversation with. But I know I feel in my heart that if
we were to go down this road I think it would be
successful.
RW
Okay.
TA
Because you dont have to talk to twenty people, youre

just talking to me. And if you tell me Ty look I need x, y
and z, Im just going to go and get x, y and z. You
know, because at the end of the day what are we
looking for? Were looking for votes on legislation,
were looking for the ability to kind of move our agenda
around.
RW
Right.
TA
And were trying to do so in a manner thats consistent

with the beliefs and with the policies that are already
implemented. Its not a difficult thing were asking,
81 | P a g e
T-41 January 31, 2011
you know?
RW
(U/I).
TA
Its not. I, I saw Dermody put something together.

Hes, ah, hes looking to force a bill to ah into the
legislature that will allow them to examine, ah, the
criminal backgrounds of people who are employed by
nursing homes and, ah, elder care facilities. Now that
would be helpful except most of the folks who, ah, have
criminal backgrounds you know they are applying for
jobs you dont know, I mean you dont know how that
would really affect those people and then again, are you
talking about just felonious crimes are you talking
about non-violent felonious crimes. What are you
talking about? So I thought that, I thought that his
memo required greater definition and as the chair of
the Black Caucus you can bring that to their attention. I
will help you mobilize those folks cause honestly, I
know a couple of the chairs already who I have what I
would like to think is a decent working relationship.
The folks who fall by the way side - hey look you cant
please everybody, but the folks who help us support
our agenda, well support theirs. I mean you know at
the end of the day were just trying to make sure that
we have a voice. Thats all. You know?
RW
A good relationship.
TA
Yeah.
RW
This guy, this guy you know him now I fought so many
bills that, I didnt see this one yet. But I do know
people who work in senior citizens facilities that after
we do this up in Harrisburg we create this new reason
why people cant work in this profession or that
profession then we are systematically pushing them out
to, to, to, to nowhere. Were pushing them over a cliff
and ah friend of mine who had worked I think it was ten
years for this nursing facility and Congress passes a bill
government signs into law he loses a job.
82 | P a g e
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TA
Mmm hmm.
RW
Now heres a person that has a proven track record and

a history of being a great employee.
TA
Mmm hmm.
RW
Lose his job (U/I).
TA
Mmm hmm.
RW
So I was (U/I) and this is a big part of my argument. We

up here dont look systematically (U/I) which is good
because the people who are going to vote against this
(U/I.
TA
Right.
RW
(U/I) cant be no more about people who are going to

vote against it then (U/I). (U/I) look at this bill I got
signed into law. Well at the end of the day, what did
they do long term? It did nothing but disenfranchise a
whole lot of people, for your simple (U/I) gratification
of knowing that the bill has you as its prime sponsor.
So Dermody and all of them, I dont mind (U/I).
Dermodys a prosecutor (U/I).
TA
Mmm hmm.
RW
Dermody is.
TA
Mmm hmm.
RW
So, so (U/I).
TA
Right. Yes that prosecutorial mindset, everybodys a

criminal. Like.
RW
Everybodys a criminal.
83 | P a g e
T-41 January 31, 2011
TA
Mmm hmm.
RW
That they, thats what you want to think, but I, I see

things differently. I see that youre going to hurt a lot
more people (U/I).
TA
Well lets, lets, lets put that in context. Hes going to

hurt a lot of black people.
RW
Yeah, absolutely.
TA
[2:33:08] Ok. You know what I mean. So, so at the end

of the day, its you know, the, the truth of the matter is
look, they come you know, folks from the western part
of the state or the central part of the state, ahm they
come to the table with a number of predispositions
about us in Philadelphia, how we do things, why we do
things, when we do things. And they dont really take
the time to understand why things are the way that they
are. You know, and, and thats, thats ok man. Ahm
that guy (U/I). Im just going to tell you this, ok. Why is
he with you?
RW
(U/I) who (U/I)?
TA
Mmm hmm, John.
RW
Oh, he came (U/I). He needed a job. He worked for

(U/I) so they let him go. He just started hanging around
the office and we had an opening so he just sat in the
chair, and eventually ah I let my staff actually talk me
into it, we had no guys there. Hed be alright.
TA
Im telling you this as a friend ok. Everybody needs a

second chance. I understand that. But what were see,
John is a guy from the street, he knows a lot, he knows
a lot of people, you know. Thats why I prefer to meet
with you up here. Because I dont trust too many
people. And I know some folks who know him from
back in the day.
84 | P a g e
T-41 January 31, 2011
RW
Mmm hmm.
TA
You know so just be careful man.
RW
Oh yeah.
TA
Just be careful because he was jammed up pretty bad.

Bad.
RW
Really?
TA
Yes really. You dont know what they use to call him?
RW
Uh mmm.
TA
Two Guns. He only got that piece of (U/I) because of

Malik.
Malik helped him out. Bilal (U/I) helped him
out.
RW
Mmm hmm.
TA
Ahm whats the other guys name? Ray somebody.
RW
Ray Jones.
TA
Ray Jones. Thats it. But you know, I, and, and the
truth is at the end of the day man in, in Philadelphia,
got to be careful.
RW
I understand. I know.
TA
But ah.
RW
(U/I).
TA
But there are.
RW
(U/I). [2:35:29]
TA
If, if we could do this in the, next like next week, cause

85 | P a g e
T-41 January 31, 2011
Ill have something.

RW
Mmm ok.
TA
I got something for you now, you know what I mean?

But, ah, think about, think about, if we can raise a
couple grand which we can, who, how can we bring
some of these people into you know saying hey you
know Ron took care of me. You know he helped me out
like, look for somebody who needs a little bit of money,
do something. And, and just, lets just give it to him.
You know what I mean, just say here this, you know Im
the chairman, Im trying to take care of my own.
RW
Mm hmm.
TA
Thats the only way Ron. It, its not about issues, its
about support. You know what I mean?
RW
Theres some people that could use (U/I).
TA
Not.
RW
(U/I).
TA
Not Vanessa.
RW
(Laughs)
TA
Thats your girl.
RW
I know shes good, but Im not worried about that. I,

the reason why Im not is because I havent seen what
she had really tried to turn that around on her own.
TA
Ok.
RW
Ok.
TA
Right.
86 | P a g e
T-41 January 31, 2011
RW
Thats the part (U/I).
TA
Well.
RW
If I see a person is trying herself to do something and

they went as far as they can but theyre still coming up
short, thats different. But what I see a person that is
traveling, I see a person that doing all this other stuff
and I know people who she owes money to who are
(U/I).
TA
Who?
RW
Janise.
TA
Law?
RW
Yeah.
TA
Ah really?
RW
You ever talk to her?
TA
I heard about her man. Janise is a bad girl. She know

what she doing.
RW
She didnt get paid.
TA
Uh oh. Can I tell you who else didnt get paid?
RW
Who?
TA
The law firm man.
RW
Hmmm.
TA
The law firm.
RW
Oh yeah they helped her case. (U/I).
TA
The law firm got a judgment against her man.

87 | P a g e
T-41 January 31, 2011
RW
Exactly.
TA
Thirty gs. Thirty gs.
RW
They didnt get paid ahm there was a girl in her (U/I).
Her name Julie, Joy, Joyette or something like that.
(U/I) she came to me and said that she worked for the
woman and she owed me and never paid me. (U/I). She
broke too. But you making money and you spending
the money staying in Harrisburg (U/I) pay that woman
(U/I).
TA
Im going to ask you something. Somebody told me she

liked to hit the slots. Is that true?
RW
I dont know.
TA
Ok well now Im telling you.
RW
Mmm.
TA
She likes to hit the slots. Right. You know Ron Ill tell
you something man. The crew that we move with.
RW
Mmm.
TA
[2:38:21]
You know look at, look at, how many
lobbyists are from Philadelphia?
RW
Not a lot.
TA
Pedro tries, Camptropelio tries, John tries, but these

guys theyre lawyers who are lobbyists. Theyre not
lobbyists.
RW
Mm hmm.
TA
Theyre, theyre approaching this thing from a place

that is so safe and so secure and at the end of the day,
its really unrivaled in terms of how boring it can be.
88 | P a g e
T-41 January 31, 2011
They dont really have vision. They dont have

resources, not really. I mean the only guy that I could
really think of that might be able to do something is
Nelson Diaz. And hes not leaving Blank Rome anytime
soon.
RW
Mmm.
TA
You know?
RW
Right.
TA
You know man we could, we could definitely put

something together. You know? We could definitely
put something together.
RW
Ah.
TA
If we could meet, if we could meet up here like twice a

month, you know what I mean?
RW
Okay, okay. Fine, lets do it.
TA
Mm hmm.
RW
(U/I) get myself in a position where I can help them.
TA
Yeah.
RW
That will get their attention.
TA
Yeah.
RW
Money talks.
TA
Not even the money, right?
RW
Um hmm.
TA
Its your intentions.
89 | P a g e
T-41 January 31, 2011
RW
Mmm hmm.
TA
You know one of the, thats like looking out for your
children.
RW
Yeah.
TA
You know?
RW
Yeah.
TA
Cause essentially thats what they are. You know what I

mean? My...
RW
They ah.
TA
My grandfather says to me all the time, boy I dont

know where you get all them thoughts in that head of
yours.
RW
Oh man.
TA
But the thing is if you work with folks, folks will work
with you.
RW
Yeah.
TA
And then, you know, the hope, the hope is that they
remember you know? Thank you so much. Its on the
table.
???
Alright thank you.
TA
(U/I).
RW
(U/I).
TA
Mmm hmm.
RW
(U/I).
90 | P a g e
T-41 January 31, 2011
???
Good evening.
RW
You have now got to be our guy.
TA
Right.
RW
Thats what they said. They called me. (U/I) you have
to be our guy. Youre the one that (U/I).
TA
[2:40:38] If we were going to work with somebody in

the Senate, who would it be?
RW
Um.
TA
Who are you comfortable with?
RW
Shirley Kitchen.
TA
In the Senate?
RW
Her and Vince.
TA
Let me tell you something, ok.
RW
Mmm hmm.
TA
(U/I) Shirley about five hundred thousand dollars (U/I)

to that center.
RW
Mmm hmm.
TA
It never happened.
RW
Mmm.
TA
You know?
RW
Right.
TA
She bullshitted us all the way to the bank cause it

wasnt like we didnt take care of her. We did, for a
91 | P a g e
T-41 January 31, 2011
very long time. I cant, you know stupidity is doing the

same thing over and over and expecting different
results. We cant work with her.
RW
Mmm.
TA
Not initially anyway.
RW
Okay.
TA
Now if think that you might be able to work with her on

your own, thats different.
RW
No, no.
TA
Cause I will provide the resources.
RW
No, no.
TA
RW
She, she, why she didnt do it I dont know. Cause she

has
TA
Well she lost. She couldnt do shit because of Vince.

Vince was gone.
RW
Yeah (U/I).
TA
But see you know what I mean.
RW
Thats who she had.
TA
Right.
RW
Yeah that was her (U/I).
TA
Yeah.
RW
But he was like but he, he think that if you (U/I).
92 | P a g e
T-41 January 31, 2011
TA
Right.
RW
That was his problem.
TA
Well who, you know, its not just Vince thinks that.
RW
Well no.
TA
And, and wait till Farnese ah with. I saw, I saw him the
other day. I said Larry, smile man. [2:42:06] Where are
you? Over here?
RW
Im right there.
TA
Alright. Ill walk across the street with you.
RW
Ill work with almost anybody in there because most of

the people (U/I).
TA
We need somebody.
RW
(U/I).
TA
See Shirley is not on Appropriations.
RW
Uh huh.
TA
So that is going to dictate who we work with.
RW
Well they got Vince.
TA
You know.
RW
Hughes.
TA
Ok.
RW
Yeah. I mean he (U/I).
TA
Well then me, you and Vince, you know at some point,
lets get some stuff going me and you first and then,
93 | P a g e
T-41 January 31, 2011
you know, when we get to that bridge, well cross it.

RW
(U/I). Hes fine. I mean hes (U/I) good advice. And I

told him what he did to Vanessa was outstanding.
TA
What did he do with her?
RW
He pretended that, that two million dollars that they got

for that, um, one for the rec center (U/I).
TA
Oh for her?
RW
That it was her doing.
TA
Her doing, yeah.
RW
That shit had been in that committee for over (U/I)

years.
TA
Where are you? Over here?
RW
Yeah.
TA
Oh youre right here.
RW
It had been sitting inside that damn -- Vince had

actually started that shit moving six years ago.
TA
Oh, you drove over here?
RW
Yeah.
TA
Oh ok.
RW
Yeah. You know I said that was very creative of you. I

said I dont know anybody else would have gave her
TA
When you go in the car, Ill give it to ya, alright?
RW
Two million dollars.
94 | P a g e
T-41 January 31, 2011
TA
Cause I dont want to give you nothing out here.
RW
Ok.
TA
Yeah.
RW
Two million dollars, and then let you take credit for it.
He just laughed at it.
TA
Its the usual amount. Its five hundred in there.
RW
Ok my man.
TA
Alright.
RW
My man.
TA
Thank.
RW
Thank you my brother.
TA
Youre welcome.
RW
I appreciate you man.
TA
I will, ah, Ill give you a call on Thursday. I wont be

here Friday but lets see if we can do this again next
Monday.
RW
My man.
TA
And I will get a couple thousand dollars together

probably by the fifteenth or the next. Just isolate who
you want to help.
RW
Ok.
TA
And Ill get the money. Alright?
RW
My man.
95 | P a g e
T-41 January 31, 2011
TA
Alright Ron. Thanks man.
RW
Thank you. Thank you.
TA
Youre welcome brother.

bye.
No problem.
Alright.
Bye-
[2:45:04] Hey there sir, Im ready, whenever you are.

It. Ok. It went well. Alright. Ok. Alright. Bye-bye.
SSSAT
[2:51:10] Again this Claude Thomas, Senior Supervisory

Special Agent, once again todays date is Monday,
January 31st, year 2010. Current time is 21:43 hundred
hours. Ah recording device will be deactivated at this
time.
96 | P a g e
T-44 February 6, 2011
Office of Attorney General

Investigation No. 36-622
TA
SSSAT
RW
???
=
=
=
=
Consenting Party
Ron Waters
Unknown
RW
Yes.
TA
Hey there sir. How are you doing?
RW
Im alright.
TA
Im sorry. I just missed your call.
RW
Oh yeah. Yeah.
TA
Good news.
RW
Everything okay.
TA
Yeah man. Everything, I mean you know just working

hard but good news today in the paper at least.
RW
Whats that?
TA
You got one more. Well Maria, you know, that special
election we were talking about the other day.
RW
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. She won.
TA
Mmm hmm.
1 | Page
RW
Yeah, the vote, the voter turnout was, it wasnt good but
you knew that based on the weather and, and ah but
none of that so see what happened was her, her ah, the
brother of the guy who passed, he had already secured
seven hundred absentee ballots you know, like last week
so he was, he knew that, that was like cash in the bank.
TA
Yeah Ron did a good a job for his brother. He did.
RW
Yeah.
TA
He did, well for his sister-in-law I should say.
RW
Yeah.
TA
Are we on for ah well can you do dinner next week,

Tuesday?
RW
Ahm but Im, Im not sure. I just was talking to another

one of the members.
TA
Mmm hmm.
RW
And they said that something was, there was something

that was already scheduled for, for, for that day. I got to
find out if its true or not. And if there isnt anything
already on the schedule, then yes.
TA
Ok. Just so that.
RW
Ill let you know.
TA
We can continue where we left off you know.
RW
Ok.
TA
There are a couple of items that are coming up. I have to

take a look at my email when I go ah to the office
tomorrow and just see.
2 | Page
RW
Ok.
TA
What ah, what issues might be of concern or might be

helpful. How you doing otherwise? You ok?
RW
Oh yeah. Yeah, Im trying.
TA
You sound tired man.
RW
I dont know whats going on. Im, I ah you know ah I, I

feel tired for some reason too. But ah but it, you know, it
was a real busy, hectic day today.
TA
Mmm hmm.
RW
Very hectic. And then I got members calling me out they

all pissed off because of some things that ah Senator
Lance said so ah I, I got to check that stuff out too.
TA
What did Anthony do now?
RW
Something, something he did. Something he said. Ah in

the Tribune, and I got, I got to find out what it was. I, I
did, I havent seen it but I got ah look at it for myself.
TA
By, by any chance, did you get a chance to ah, did you
have the opportunity to talk to Preston?
RW
No I havent seen him.
TA
Ok.
RW
I havent seen him. Ah Ill probably see him Monday.
TA
Ok.
RW
Yeah were back in session on Monday so ah Ill probably

see him then.
TA
Ok.
Well Ill be up there Monday and Tuesday and

3 | Page
probably Wednesday too. So Ill give you a call.

RW
Okay.
TA
Monday morning see if youre.
RW
Ok.
TA
Free for Tuesday and then well do that.
RW
Okay. Alright.
TA
Alright. Alright sir.
RW
Alright.
TA
Thanks for calling.
RW
Alright. Thanks.
TA
Alright. Goodbye.
SSSAT
The preceding communications took place between CI

2010-01 and RW in reference to case number 36-622. I
recorded this conversation in reference to this case
number.
I am Claude Thomas, Senior Supervisory
Special Agent, Pennsylvania Office of Attorney General,
Badge #118, A certification #A-1418. Todays date is
Thursday, February the 3rd, year 2011 and the current
time is 19:06 hundred hours. This tape is now being
deactivated.
4 | Page
Office of Attorney General

Investigation No. 36-622
Senior Supervisory Special Agent, Pennsylvania Office of Attorney

General, badge number is 118, A certification number is A-1418.
Todays date is Wednesday, February the 9th, year 2011. Current
time is 18:55 hundred hours. This recording device will be placed
on CI-2010-01 in reference to investigation #36-622. CI will be
recording conversations between CI and RW within the confines of
the city of Harrisburg, county of Dauphin County. This tape will be
deactivated by myself at a later time.
TA
SSSAT
RW
???
=
=
=
=
Consenting Party
Ron Waters
Unknown
TA
(3:07) Hi. Good evening. Two.
???
Two?
TA
Mmm hmm. (U/I).
???
He went to the other way.
TA
Ah no actually. Theres someone else.

Thanks. Thank you.
???
And am I looking for a male or female?
TA
Male.
???
Okay. Is this him coming?
1 | Page
Corner is fine.
TA
No. I just spoke with him a few minutes ago. So maybe

hes running a little bit behind.
???
Okay. Thats fine.
TA
Thank you.
???
Well look for him. Ill tell, Ill let my manager know. Do
you want anything to drink other than water?
TA
Ah Can I have a Diet Coke? Thanks. Actually, you know,

Ill switch that. A cup of coffee.
???
Coffee?
TA
Thank you.
???
Youre welcome.
TA
Thank you.
???
(20:15) Does your friend live far away?
TA
Ahm no were both actually coming up from Philadelphia.
???
Yeah. Maybe theres some traffic somewhere, something

got held up.
TA
Maybe. Thank you dear.
???
Youre welcome.
???
Hey how are you doing?
TA
How are you?
???
Good.
TA
(26:55) (on the phone) Hey there sir. You ok?

Oh okay. Alright. Bye-bye.
2 | Page
Hi.
???
(30:01) Sir, would you like to have a newspaper while

youre waiting?
TA
Oh no. He should be here. He just called me.
???
Okay.
TA
Thank you.
RW
(30:56) Whats up man?
TA
I thought you got kidnapped.
RW
Oh God. Oh God. No, no, no, no. It wasnt, it wasnt, it

wasnt like that. Yeah how you been though?
TA
Good. Good.
RW
Yeah. Yeah (U/I) day most people want to come in talking

about.
TA
Call it what it is.
RW
(U/I).
TA
You enjoy it.
???
There you are. Glad you made it.
RW
Yeah.
???
(U/I). How are you? Would you like something to drink

besides water?
RW
Ah yeah. Glass of Riesling?
???
Riesling? Absolutely.
RW
Yeah.
3 | Page
TA
What happened last night? So they just left yall hanging?
RW
(U/I) You know they need the Black Caucus to be on

board so they can have a shot at getting this stuff passed.
You know, questions get asked. They answer them, but I
keep asking questions, nobodys answering so Im getting
tired. Maybe they need to bring these experts in at some
point, then they dont (U/I) so all I have (U/I). I dont like
doing that because when I tell them look, we going out for
dinner, (U/I), then they dont do it, Im not gonna, Ill be
reluctant to do it again. Ill be reluctant. I need to make
sure and theyre gonna have to give me some
reassurances they gonna follow through with it and I dont
know how they do that cause I dont like the way (U/I).
TA
I will ah tell you something. Normally when something

like that happens, one of two things took place. A phone
call was made, delay that because of this.
RW
Mmm hmm.
TA
Or hes not the one. We got to call somebody else.
RW
Yeah.
TA
You know the drill.
RW
Yeah.
TA
You know.
RW
(U/I) if you dont know (U/I) the flipside because (U/I) that
might have happened. Somebody might have made a
phone call. (U/I) or you know the only power (U/I).
TA
Its, its unfortunate but what may take place is the

marginalization of the left ahm may or may not, you
know. Eventually I hope that ah you recognize the folks
who will be sincere and meet you now and can follow
through. And stack those bench marks against those
4 | Page
people who would like to know you and would like to

follow through but will not or cannot because of the
politics. In other words, one youll waste your time, one
you will waste your time and your resources you know.
Youll, youll waste a little bit of time in each case because
you have to get to how can we work together and
sometimes that takes a little bit of doing but as I come up
here, ahm more and more, and Im understanding the
issues a little bit more you know. A lot of effort is being
giving in Washington to the Lets Move campaign. You
now and then here, ah you got a couple of folks who
would like to mirror that effort. Where do you stand on
that? [35:48]
RW
On the eh, (U/I).
TA
No, this is the obesity issue.
RW
Oh.
TA
Well get to the voucher in a second. Thats another,

another part of the conversation. But in terms of the
effort for the reduction of childhood obesity, where are you
on that?
RW
Ah I feel ah, the ah problem for me is stopping (U/I)

people (U/I). A lot of it is fast-food industries and other
processed food people (U/I) they, they got specific income
(U/I). Theyre pushing to make life easy for them (U/I).
How do we slow that down? (U/I). I think education, (U/I),
peoples lifestyles.
I mean thats a, thats a major
problem. But how do you get people to at least start
recognizing that there is a problem and for me, its, you
know, where I stand. I stand on trying to fix it. How do
we fix it (U/I)? How are you get people to try to stop
feeding their children (U/I). Theres a guy named Jeff
Brown (U/I)grand opening in a couple of weeks as you
know (U/I) Shop Rites.
TA
Mmm hmm.
5 | Page
RW
Ahm talked to him yesterday (U/I) he wanted me to be

there for a groundbreaking ceremony, but my thing is, to
your point which I dont really get how people (U/I). We
got get serious (U/I) but for me, (U/I) Ive been working
with a lot of doctors. We got a white paper with (U/I). So
Im trying to show where the ah the issues that (U/I) we
ahm (U/I) go to the doctors office for treatment for the
problem that we are ah we brought on ourselves, and all
they do is give us treatment to keep us comfortable, but
continue in the same lifestyle. You see what they do is,
they dont cure you of the problem. They give you
medication so you can live with the problem and ahm so
(U/I) so thats, thats where (U/I).
TA
The.
RW
(U/I).
TA
The physicians are part of the construct ah that allows

you to look at the systemic problem.
RW
Yeah.
TA
Poor diet ahm more than required caloric intake.
RW
Yeah. [39:53].
TA
And then the diseases that are ah derived out of that

process by abuse of food. Ahm but to bring it full circle,
youre going to need some input and this is just my
suggestion, ahm from the registered dietary association,
the, the group of dieticians, registered dieticians, youre
going to need some input from the agricultural lobby.
Youre going to need some input from the manufacturing
lobby.
RW
Okay.
TA
Ahm beyond all of those, you know, those four groups

aside, youre going to need to reach out to some of the
agricultural scientists you know. It, it, it, it, it is truly a
6 | Page
very, very large problem. Heres a question for you cause

Im going to show you something Im working on, ahm if
we were to propose ah sending something like that and
when I say like that, I mean specifically addressing the
adolescent obesity issue. Who could we work with to, to
get something like that ahm get some support for it, who
could we, besides yourself, who would you suggest we
reach out to?
RW
You could reach out to someone who (U/I) chairs from

agricultural committee. I would think they (U/I). Ahm,
youre talking about in the House of Representatives?
TA
Yes.
RW
Or outside?.
TA
No, in the House.
RW
Yeah, the agriculture committee. Find out whos on there

whos also sensitive to the same issues (U/I).
TA
And in terms of the caucus, cause were going to need

some ah some help there, who would you think, who
would you.
RW
Black caucus?
TA
Yes.
RW
Probably, Vanessa Brown. Ill tell you shes either, I think

that its good to have a woman in there. Someone who
looks for the issues.
Understands it, and can be
educated. But needs to be educated because she goes off
sometimes and thinks that she already got so much
knowledge. I think its a (U/I) issue. (U/I) one of our
meetings she even brought up childhood I mean uhm
(U/I) malnutrition does not necessarily mean that a
person is thin. She said you could be thin and still be,
you could be healthy, I mean, you could be (U/I) I mean
shes fat so (U/I) malnutricious.
7 | Page
TA
Who was saying this?
RW
Vanessa was saying it.
TA
Oh.
RW
Shes not thin.
TA
Okay.
RW
Cause shes heavy. So she was like you could still be

heavy (U/I) a lot of caloric food but you aint really
nutritious at all. You got a lot of weight it dont mean
(U/I) malnutritious (U/I) shes somebody that I can work
with (U/I).
TA
Vanessa huh?
RW
Yeah. Shes not the only one but theres other people.
TA
Mmm hmm.
RW
Ah (U/I).
TA
Mmm hmm.
RW
Ah, lets say females are Louise.
TA
Mmm hmm.
RW
Shes the chairwoman of children and youth. [44:02]
TA
Mmm hmm.
RW
(U/I) for her committee. Im on the committee, but
???
Excuse me gentleman. Are you ready to order or do you

want a few minutes to
TA
Ahm.
8 | Page
TA
Ah I need a couple of minutes.
???
Okay.
TA
Please.
RW
Now you got the issue you want to take on now?
TA
Well I think it makes good sense because to start

something up, you know, look, I got all of this stuff that
Im just fiddling through, some of our plans have some
concerns, some requests you know. Ahm its just really
trying to identify who are we going to work with.
You
know we, we certainly ah identified whos going to be on
what committee.
RW
Right.
TA
You know, now its ah, now its who are we going to work
with ahm, hows it impact our clients and then beyond
those things, you know at the end of the day, which,
which cause, which concern, what do we champion first.
RW
Right.
TA
[45:35] You know because the issue with, ah, the

privatization of the liquor licenses, its still the top priority
for us.
RW
Uh huh.
TA
Have you identified anybody that we might be able to

work with in that committee?
RW
There was (U/I). That is, uh, is definitely (U/I). I was

talking to the leadership about it yesterday, and they
brought that up (U/I).
TA
Mm hmm.
9 | Page
RW
(U/I). I think that they all think (U/I) House is going to

pass (U/I).
TA
Right.
RW
They really think that (U/I) its gonna go through (U/I).
TA
Do you want my help? Because we could help. Let me,

let me just share something else with you.
The
privatization issue is of paramount importance. So you
and I both know that its passage in, in the Senate
requires specific committees to be cooperative, right?
Youre going to need Finance, youre going to need
Appropriations.
RW
Mm hmm.
TA
So think about it and if you would like me to look at a

couple of fund raisers to drum up support on the
Senatorial caucus side, let me know.
RW
Okay.
TA
You know? You can just, ah just to go back to the point

that we were talking about earlier, um the obesity issue,
so, so you said Vanessa and, and ah...
RW
Probably Louise.
TA
Louise.
RW
Definitely Louise because see, for her, for her, she knows
that Im already dealing with this on my own as a, as a
major problem in our community. (U/I) as well as one
guy is a heart surgeon because he is one of the, one of the
two African American heart surgeons in the state. He has
become like my ah go-to person on help on these issues
we put together these ah conferences, plus he is also part
of my think-tank. I got a think-tank (U/I) health related
problems, so this, this, this definitely works for me
because childhood diabetes is a very serious issue. I
10 | P a g e
know that the Presidents wife is trying to get a little more

attention for the veterans family. So at one point this was
her issue. The First Lady. What really got me (U/I) in
this stuff was (U/I) this guy named Huckabee who ran for
President.
TA
Mike Huckabee.
RW
I was at a conference. This guy was talking about health

related issues because (U/I) massive related deaths (U/I)
he had (U/I) 911, 9-1-1 (U/I) people really be alarmed, got
their attention (U/I) people died on that day, and then he
was talking about Katrina, how that (U/I) how many
people died in Katrina, we still dont have an exact
amount of people who died in Katrina and how (U/I) the
warning was there, the levee should have been repaired,
there was a lot of stuff that should have happened that
would have prevented that tragedy from happening (U/I).
Now I didnt know where he was even going with this it
was going with this we were at a health conference but he,
he was clever in how he uses that analogy that we had in
America about hundred thousand people who die every
year (U/I) people die from cigarettes, people die from a
disease called substance abuse, people die from lack of
proper treatment in hospitals, chronic conditions (U/I),
people die early from diabetes or heart disease (U/I). He
said now you do the math and then divide that by twelve.
He said that that means on average that fifty thousand
people die every year prematurely from, from health
related issues that are preventable. So ahm he said now
take it even further, divide that by thirty. He said youll
see that 1500, 2000, people a day (U/I). So when he
started talking about that, I said, I started to (U/I) that
was a great message (U/I) why arent we doing something
about this (U/I) citizens to die unnecessarily. So what Im
saying is, Im very sensitive to this diabetes, to ahm
obesity (U/I), but its a lot of added people now that are on
insulin at an early age because of eating disorders that
are disgraceful and condition, conditions keep on
happening.
11 | P a g e
TA
Mmm hmm. [53:13]
RW
So its not healthy whatsoever.
TA
Mmm hmm.
RW
(U/I) It does not have to happen. It can be stopped but

how are we going to get education to get people to buy
into this stuff so that they remove themselves from this,
while we bring in the supermarkets with options (U/I)
products that wont kill them. Now I think that those two
things have to be coupled together: education and
knowing how to shop and have that ability to shop and
ignore the stores (U/I) bad eating habits.
TA
This, the thing that Im going to say is that there are some
topics and some issues that are, they make a lot of sense
to champion because of a number of people that they
effect, the untimely death that they bring on, these
diseases, and then if you try to combat it through
education, you could probably get a lot of support.
However, ahm those things require a tremendous amount
of research and a tremendous amount of time. Ahm it
also requires like minded individuals to come up with
white papers.
RW
Mmm hmm.
TA
Studies, it requires research grant money. It requires

ahm in-depth resources and then you got to structure
how those resources are going to be distributed and then
ultimately who gets ah what part of each grant. And, and
thats always with academicians and with ahm studies
from say a university. Thats always the struggle because
the universities are competing for grant dollars
constantly. So while the obesity issue ahm and I, I
understand that I brought it up, but while that, that is a
good cause, it is not ahm, its not here and now you know.
It, its something that has to be worked on progressively.
RW
Oh absolutely.
12 | P a g e
TA
You know. Are you ready to order?
RW
(U/I).
TA
Think you know what you want? Okay. She should be

back over here.
RW
Yeah.
TA
You know.
RW
Long term.
TA
[55:49] Long term you know. And I think even if we dont

utilize, um, the assistance of the two folks you mentioned
for lets say a bill that kind of addresses and Ill just read
a couple of these things off to you here cause this is just
draft one. But ahm the pricing point of food ah then you
got some of the health concerns ah where the agricultural
produce is being grown because of pesticides and other
ecological toxins.
RW
Mmm hmm.
TA
Then you got ahm what I consider to be the crux of the

problem from the education perspective which is when,
when you have a mother, a single mother on welfare for
example, um, there is no prerequisite that requires her to
attend a nutrition class to learn to how to shop, how to
cook or how to feed her children.
RW
Mmm hmm.
TA
And then you got, you got, to try to sponsor some dialogue
in the school and then in addition to all of those things,
ahm exactly what you spoke about it which is also
included in draft one of this first copy, the fast food
industry. You know ensuring that co-working ah the
postings are prominently displayed in public areas which
they are doing now but they also need to ensure that the
13 | P a g e
postings are in several languages because the cultural ah

make up of Philadelphia and, and, and Pennsylvania is
changing rapidly and then holding forums with dairy
farmers and agricultural farmers and then you know
doing studies to look at statistical information ahm and
how that gets distributed. [57:28] All of those things are
very important and, and key to getting it done correctly.
But it takes a long time you know. The issues that are
sort of timely and that are here and now that require, um,
bipartisan support is the shale issue. Is the privatization
of the liquor, ah, licenses. Those are also the items on the
table that you and your colleagues can derive benefit
from, you know? It, its trying to figure out you know how
do we ahm, how do we create that, that, that extension
because you want to go into a place where you
understand that its necessary. Once you figure out
whether its necessary or not, then you can select who
from your group do you think you can really count on for
support. In other words, you want, you dont want to
find, ah, you dont want to find yourself in a place where
you thought you could count on this person but you cant.
You know because you know this at the end of the day its
all about who. Ill give you an example. If, if we were
looking at the privatization project as opposed to
something like this, which you know we are, instead of
Vanessa or Louse, cause I know neither of their postings
in terms of their committees are relevant, who could we
work with?
RW
(U/I) The only other person, I dont know how you feel
about him in particular, but he usually does the research
for these things, and that would be Curtis Thomas.
TA
I feel fine with Curtis I mean Ive known him for a long
time never had any business dealings with him. Ahm,
what would you like?
RW
(U/I).
TA
Ah no, no, no. Its fine, its fine.
14 | P a g e
RW
(U/I).
TA
We had the scampi last time we were here.
???
(U/I).
TA
I know what Im going to have.
RW
What are you going to have, man?
TA
Im going to ah, you know, if, if, if it, if it worked the first
the time, dont ah.
???
(U/I).
TA
Dont do anything else.
???
(U/I).
RW
(U/I).
???
(U/I).
RW
(U/I).
???
(U/I).
RW
(U/I).
???
(U/I).
RW
(U/I).
???
(U/I).
RW
(U/I).
???
No theyre (U/I).
RW
(U/I).
15 | P a g e
???
Ok. Alright. What kind of dressing would you like to have

on your salad, or you can have soup instead?
RW
What kind of soup?
???
We have (U/I) and New England clam chowder.
RW
Ill have a salad. Dressing, do you have (U/I)?
???
Balsamic vinaigrette or raspberry vinaigrette?
RW
Raspberry vinaigrette.
???
Thank you, sir.
TA
Ill have the same. Thats easy.
???
Oh, it is, absolutely.
RW
Very good.
TA
Thats easy enough.
TA
The, the piece, the piece is this cause you can see whats
going on in my brief case. Ive got like you know the day
care situation, thats going out of control. Childhood
obesity issue. You got some other people looking at the
insurance industry. Whats going to take place in terms
of the teenage ah insurance issues that are coming up
more and more because children are drinking and driving
at the most alarming rate in our history.
RW
Mmm hmm.
TA
You know and then we got the voucher issue which Im

going to talk to you about now. Ahm, I was told to ask
and I, and I dont know if, if this might be helpful to you.
We do book drives every year at the day care center. Now,
does your office ever do book drives?
16 | P a g e
RW
We, we ahm (U/I).
TA
But in terms of books in the opening of the school year,

that are utilized in pre-kindergarten like what we do, have
you ever had one of those?
RW
No.
TA
I think this summer that would be a great thing to sort of

consider.
RW
Yeah.
TA
Because not only can we bring a lot of value to the table

because of that.
RW
Right.
TA
We, you can actually sort of ahm look at how the books
get distributed for example, if its going to licensed
facilities or if its going to facilities with ahm folks who are
not licensed but on their way to becoming licensed. It
sort of allows you to sort of trace the progress of that
business. And in time, that would become very beneficial.
You know? [01:03:42]
RW
Now you talking about, now, you, you give these books.
TA
Mmm hmm.
RW
To day care centers?
TA
Yeah. Yeah.
RW
Really?
TA
Mmm hmm.
RW
And they (U/I).
TA
See that would mean that we would have to work

17 | P a g e
someone on the education committee.

RW
Yeah.
TA
Now if we were working with somebody on the education

committee, who might that be? Who would you pick?
RW
I would only say the chair of the committee (U/I).
TA
So that would be Roebuck?
RW
Mmm hmm.
TA
Okay.
But do you think, heres, heres a, heres a, the
question. You know Ive, Ive worked pretty hard to look
at who do we know, ahm are these folks already
positioned on committees that would be helpful to us,
giving us ahm the ability to ah voice our cause for our
client and then can we work with these ah folks long
term? The entire key here is long term.
RW
Right.
TA
You know they look at me and they say well Ty youre a

finance guy, youre a lobbyist.
RW
Right.
TA
Ah you understand what needs to happen what were

trying to do is understand is when can we expect it to
happen.
RW
Okay.
TA
You know.
RW
Okay.
TA
And, and the truth is, Ron look, you know I like you.
RW
Mmm hmm.
18 | P a g e
TA
Beyond like, I respect you.
RW
(U/I).
TA
[1:05:14] You know, and I feel like we can have a solid

working relationship.
RW
Right.
TA
You know.
RW
Right.
TA
It, its like this, if we bring Curtis to the table, I mean, will
he work with us? If we bring Vanessa to the table, would
she work with? If we bring Louise to the table, will she
work with us? You know?
RW
I think her only because I think she is vulnerable. She

needs help.
TA
Who is vulnerable?
RW
Louise.
TA
Why do you say that?
RW
Vulnerable, yeah.
TA
Vulnerable in what sense?
RW
Cause she has to have, um, theres some things, she

needs to start producing something, okay?
TA
Louise?
RW
Yeah. I aint saying that shes not productive, but thats

because of her (U/I) personality, but when it comes down
to substance (U/I), but then she falls short, and I love her
as a person, but I think she needs to start being
19 | P a g e
productive.
committee.
that.
I mean ineffective, shes the chair of a

You know, most people dont view her like
TA
Most people dont deal with her?
RW
They dont view her like that.
TA
They dont view her as?
RW
Productive.
TA
Oh.
RW
(U/I) I mean (U/I) shes still got the rep.
TA
What if I said this? Shes a very nice person.
RW
She is. She is, but that isnt the same. You know, like
she was talking to me yesterday about how shes going to
run a committee, but the people dont respect her on that
committee.
TA
Who said that to you, somebody in the caucus?
RW
(U/I) a long time.
TA
Huh?
RW
(U/I).
TA
Hmmm.
RW
Frank Oliver used to step in her face all the time and tell
her you got to be you got to run your committee, you got
(U/I) the majority.
TA
Mmm hmm.
RW
(U/I) was running the committee.

He just totally
disrespected her. Right in front of all the members. You
20 | P a g e
cant have that. You the chair you got to (U/I).

TA
You know, there are some folks and, and Im not saying
this for any other reason but just to make this statement,
there are some folks you know, youre familiar with the
program The Center for Progressive Leadership.
RW
Mmm hmm.
TA
Okay. There are some folks who need a refresher course

you know every once in awhile. [1:07:52] But the, the
other piece is this, even if we worked with her.
RW
Mm hmm.
TA
If we try to get a bill, ah, introduced and, and lets assume

that we get it pass the House.
RW
Mm hmm.
TA
Were going to get killed in the Senate.
RW
Why?
TA
Because were looking for, we need at least

Appropriations sponsor and who would that be?
RW
Vince.
TA
You sure?
RW
Sure.
TA
You can bring Vince to the table?
RW
Yeah, for this.
TA
Okay.
RW
Mm hmm.
21 | P a g e
one
TA
How about on the, on the, on the liquor, look you, you

know Im a republican.
RW
Mm hmm.
TA
If, if we were looking for some support on both the

Marcellus Shale issue and the privatization of the liquor
license issue, do you think that we could count on his
support through you?
RW
Vince?
TA
Yes.
RW
I dont know. Im gonna be honest with you. Marcellus

Shale maybe but the liquor I dont know.
TA
What do you think his, his, um, the impediments are for
him on the liquor issue?
RW
He doesnt want to go against the union.
TA
Oh, look. Heres the thing. Okay, Local 1776 theyve got
their issues. Ive spoken to a couple of folks who are close
to Wendell.
RW
Right.
TA
Their biggest concern has to do with the pension plan.
RW
Right.
TA
You know that and I know that.
RW
Right.
TA
Um, thank you. Beyond that, beyond that, I am quite

sure you know, nobody here is insensitive to the need of
the working American.
RW
Right.
22 | P a g e
TA
Nobody is insensitive.
RW
Right.
TA
So I am quite certain that were going to be able to craft a

plan.
RW
Yeah.
TA
That includes and is not subjected to ah any kind of real

discrimination because the (U/I) republicans are (U/I).
RW
Yeah.
TA
Um, it would be nice if we could look at bipartisan

support and at the same time, constantly, ah, benchmark
and check in with him or you, and you, I should say, as to
how this fits into what you need.
RW
Right.
TA
Who else in Philadelphia can do that for you?
RW
Um, on the Republican side? John Taylor, hes the chair

of the committee. The majority chair. Do you know him?
TA
I do not, but its not, its
RW
You need to.
TA
Well we, there are people who do and thats not, that, my,
my strengths.
RW
Okay.
TA
Has nothing to do with being able to reach out to

somebody in the House on the Republican side. Its to
reach out to the folks who we have some relationships
and friendships with.
23 | P a g e
RW
Okay.
TA
And enhance or strengthen them.
RW
Alright.
TA
You know somebody else will, will take care of that. If our
client tells me to deal with that, then I will.
RW
Okay.
TA
You know? Unless you can arrange a meeting for me?
RW
Ill look into it.
TA
Is that a yes or a political no?
RW
No, no, no. I will, Ill talk to John.
TA
Okay, thank you.
RW
Ill talk to him today.
TA
Okay.
RW
See if he wants to (U/I) somebody who is interested in

privatizing. Ill be straight up with him.
TA
Okay.
RW
Id like you to talk and have a meeting.
TA
Yeah.
RW
Can arrange it just to tell you, you know, what their idea
looks like.
TA
Oh we dont have to do immediately. Let me, give me until

Monday and Ill let you know because like I said, its a
team of us working.
24 | P a g e
RW
Mm hmm.
TA
Somebody might have reached out to him. I dont want to

step on anybodys toes.
RW
Okay.
TA
Im the new guy on the block anyway.
RW
Okay. Okay.
TA
You know.
RW
(U/I).
TA
Ahm its more than pressure.
RW
Mmm hmm.
TA
No, no, thats putting it kind.
RW
Thats polite I know.
TA
Mmm hmm. So if we can work with you know how do you

think we might be able if, if, if Louise is, if shes not ahm
not someone who is very confrontational at least from
what I hear and what I understand, perhaps we can do
something small with her that makes sense.
RW
Okay.
TA
Maybe not even the introduction of a bill but perhaps give

some small issue, something mundane, a voice on the
floor.
RW
Well shes got a voice.
TA
You know.
RW
Its a matter of if she uses it (U/I) its not like she dont
have a voice, its a matter that she dont have credibility.
25 | P a g e
Its a matter of (U/I).

TA
Okay.
RW
So.
TA
Okay. See that, that, thats the other thing you know.
RW
Mmm hmm.
TA
My, each, each day coming up here and.
RW
Mmm hmm.
TA
Looking at whats taken place and, and trying to work

with the members. One thing that I, I sort of understood
earlier but I really understand it now, you really have to
try to find that persons specialty.
RW
Mmm hmm.
TA
There are some folks who are specialists and then there
are some folks who are generalists.
RW
(U/I).
TA
You seem to be a generalist.
RW
Mmm hmm.
TA
Like you know about everything. [01:13:30]
RW
Mmm hmm. I try. Well everything that I think is

important to the people who sent me up here. (U/I) but
now I got to have to figure out how to do some things
political, ahm in this environment (U/I) and still able to be
effective.
TA
Things like what? Tell me.
RW
Well, ahm, let me tell you something, for me, one of my

26 | P a g e
weakest areas (U/I) is that I concentrate too much on my

main concerns constituent service and outreach (U/I) to
get something out of the House (U/I) because you know at
the end of the day a lot of people look at us as to, you
know how effective you are as a politician (U/I) they raise
a lot of money (U/I) before they come up here they make
sure that they have that kind of money but it gives ahm
credibility (U/I).
(U/I) its something that I feel is
important that I havent given a lot of attention. You
know that Dwight (U/I) Dwight is (U/I) because he was
the chairman of very important committee, but he was
able to raise a lot of money (U/I) went to his head (U/I).
You got to look at everything. Learn from it (U/I)
TA
Sure.
RW
(U/I) Dwight (U/I) raising money (U/I) million dollars in

his ahm PAC.
TA
Quietly we have considerable resources in ours.
RW
Mmm hmm, right.
TA
More than that.
RW
Right.
TA
Much more than that.
RW
Yeah.
TA
You know the thing that makes me I dont want to use the
word important, but, but makes me sort of indispensable.
RW
Mmm hmm.
TA
In this particular situation.
RW
Mmm hmm.
TA
Is the fact that I brought the money to the table. Period.

27 | P a g e
RW
Mmm hmm.
TA
You know. Its our group from Trinidad.
RW
Okay.
TA
Ahm were not based in Philadelphia so ahm less talk,

more action you know.
RW
Yeah.
TA
If, if and I share this with you in confidence, if you need,

here, here, heres how it, the, and I know you know this,
but look, PHA, typical client right?
RW
Right.
TA
Theyre quasi-governmental agency.
RW
Right.
TA
Theyve got connections on the city side, the state side,

the federal side.
RW
Right.
TA
Senatorial side in the state.
RW
Yeah.
TA
And, and the senate side federally as well.
RW
Mmm hmm.
TA
The issue is, if a law firm sort of courts PHA.
RW
Mmm hmm.
TA
And the law firm does a fundraiser for PHA.
28 | P a g e
RW
Mmm hmm.
TA
Or someone who would like to be in power at PHA.
RW
Mmm hmm.
TA
Ahm or they connect that person through relationships

with the director of PHA, lets say they get that person a
job. Right. Thats a good thing but its not a great thing.
RW
Right.
TA
What makes sense is when youre able to provide value. I

provide value.
RW
Okay.
TA
I pride, provide value because nobody does research like

me. Thats number one. Number two, when I understand
the issue, I own the issue.
RW
Okay.
TA
And to be able to look at the relationships that we have

and the friendships that weve developed over the years, in
and outside of the United States.
RW
Right.
TA
I bring another kind of value.
RW
Okay.
TA
You know.
RW
Okay.
TA
If we were looking at, look, Vince is having a fundraiser

ahm in about a week. Right. [01:19:20]
RW
Yeah.
29 | P a g e
TA
Now those folks are going to become important to him.
RW
Mm hmm.
TA
[1:19:24] You know? Theyre going to be important. The

top line of the fundraiser is about twenty-five hundred
dollars. Now if we did a fundraiser or I helped raise funds
for your campaign.
RW
Mm hmm.
TA
Who is your treasurer now?
RW
A lady employee named Paula Wright.
TA
Paula Wright? Wha, look, I have a client in Philadelphia

that is a collection agency.
RW
Mm hmm.
TA
The parking authority man, thats millions of dollars that

is not collected.
RW
Hmm. Hmm. Wow. Yeah they do.
TA
Do you know anybody there that might be able to help me

get this in as a contract for the client?
RW
Who the Parking Authority?
TA
Yeah.
RW
Yeah. I know Vince Fenerty.

years.
TA
I know.
RW
Yeah. I know Vince.
TA
Sometimes you know, you, you hesitate to ask because I

30 | P a g e
I used to work there for
dont know what your relationships are like there still.

You know?
RW
Hell yeah. They need us a lot of times. A lot of times I give

them a heads up if they try to make a move on them up
here, and they appreciate that. Yeah, call him and ask
him, you know.
TA
But do you think that he could deliver for us?
RW
Who, what you mean on a contract?
TA
Yes. Well not us, but our clients.
RW
Sure.
TA
Mm hmm.
RW
Yeah.
TA
To do collections?
RW
Nobodys on it?
TA
The only folks that are doing ah some portion of the

collection requirement for the Parking Authority is the
NCO Group.
RW
Who? [01:21:00]
TA
NCO. And then theres a smaller collection agency thats

based on Torresdale Avenue.
Its called Revenue
Collection Bureau.
RW
Mmm.
TA
And, no, there are no African-American owned firms that

have this contract.
RW
Yeah.
31 | P a g e
TA
Or even a portion of it. You know the, the, here, the other
part of the equations the faster you move.
RW
Yeah.
TA
The more I am able to report back to our client. Hey, this

is whats, this is what we are able to accomplish for you.
RW
Okay.
TA
How quickly can you move?
RW
Okay. (U/I) call to him.
TA
Ron, its over forty-five million dollars.
RW
Yeah.
TA
Its not something small.
RW
Right.
TA
And, and just so that you are aware there are three
components to the contract. There is the servicing of the
ticket, there is the collection of the actual ticket amount.
RW
Mmm hmm.
TA
There is the collection of the ticket and the penalty and

theres also ahm the boot and towing fees.
RW
Mmm hmm.
TA
[1:22:14] So and, and the truth of the matter is look, we

have a, a guy in Trinidad who is a client right, but most of
our folks, we view them as partners. Thats just the way
this is.
RW
Mm hmm.
32 | P a g e
TA
If were working together, were working together. I would

love to see you, I dont know why youve never, ah, made a
run for Senate. You know somebody else said that to me
last week.
RW
Oh yeah.
TA
You know.
RW
They say that to me all the time.
TA
Because, because you have the charisma, you know the

issues, you have the friendships, the relationships, you
have, the only thing youre really lacking is the resource.
You know?
RW
Oh man look, Id scare the shit out of those guys if I had

some money.
TA
Mm hmm.
RW
Thats another thing. As a matter of fact thats something

they said to me one time. They said that to me about,
um, I make them nervous, they were glad I dont know
how to raise money cause they said if I knew how to raise
money I was gonna be a threat. You want me to shake
some people up, get their attention, let me concentrate on
the fundraising and dont -- stop all the other stuff that I
do. Trust me, Id shake some people up. (U/I) one thing
or another because, let me tell you something, they had
Black History this month (U/I) yesterday she comes up to
me (U/I) we had the Harriet Tubman re-enactment, we
had the Lincoln University (U/I)
TA
Mmm.
RW
We had ahm local (U/I) drill team perform (U/I) .
TA
Thank you.
33 | P a g e
???
Youre welcome.
RW
(U/I) Black Pennsylvanian (U/I).
TA
Oh yeah.
RW
Yeah. (U/I). All day, yesterday (U/I) it was a great event,

great event. And I said that to say this, yesterday (U/I) at
the ahm there was a group of guys who are interested in
taxing (U/I) assert a tax on Marcellus Shale (U/I) who
asked me to please sit down and talk to them. They
wanted to network with the Black Caucus so that we
could empower each other and form an alliance so that we
could leverage our power (U/I) friend of or affiliate of the
Black Caucus on both sides of the aisle. Whatever the
charisma that is (U/I) it must be something that is, is
catching on. Ive got more and more and more people
from leadership coming to me for stuff. They wanted me
to run for leadership (U/I) its about Dwight. I really want
to take Dwight out. (U/I) somebody else in there (U/I).
The only reason I didnt do it is maybe Im just too
considerate, and I thought that it would look like they
were using me, but they really want to take out him (U/I)
didnt want to deal with that (U/I). So I just said thank
you, but no thank you. They still talk to me about you
gonna be a leader. Whatever the charisma or whatever it
is thats there, the only thing thats missing is the money.
Thats whats held me back (U/I).
TA
Thank you.
???
(U/I).
RW
(U/I). What gets in their way is (U/I). Josh hurt himself by

moving too fast and not thinking about how other people
would perceive him. He had Ed Rendell who was his
sponsor and supporter (U/I).
TA
Who was this?
RW
Josh Shapiro.
34 | P a g e
TA
Oh, oh, oh. (U/I) boy (U/I)
RW
Now hes going to be leaving pretty soon hes running for

commissioner.
TA
Mmm hmm.
RW
Hell learn.
TA
Mmm hmm. But just, just to address your point, right

there are a lot of folks who come into their own after
theyve been exposed and theyve had intriguing life
experience. Theyre qualified in any event.
RW
Mmm hmm.
TA
But theyre resourcefulness is enhanced because of the

life that they lead, the example that they set, the talent
that they naturally have.
RW
Mmm hmm.
TA
Youre one of those people, youve been that for a long

time. You know, youre a role model. What, what, the
thing that you got to come to terms with is that my God,
your God, other guys God, never said for you to be poor.
RW
No.
TA
Never said that.
RW
No.
TA
In the Book it says be fruitful, multiply.
RW
Yeah.
TA
They werent only speaking about children.
35 | P a g e
RW
No they werent, no they werent, no they werent, sure.
TA
You know.
RW
(U/I).
TA
The other piece is that you will find a group of people who
are coming out of college now that are smart.
RW
Mmm hmm.
TA
They are tenacious.
RW
Mmm hmm.
TA
And their parents have money.
RW
Mmm hmm.
TA
And theyre staying in Philadelphia.
RW
Mmm hmm.
TA
These young people need leadership and a lot of them are

going to be in the surrounding areas of your district. You
know I had a meeting with some folks ah one lady ah the
director actually of one of the universities. She heads up
ahm a very prominent university its very close to you in,
in the SPDC world and what they were discussing was the
need for grants. Now being able to bring somebody like
that and connect them with you.
RW
Yeah.
TA
[1:28:45] Is an important thing, because perhaps we can

work through the, the, the, the DCED folks. Bridge that
gap across the aisle and sponsor a grant. See the thing
is, just like I want you to be helpful and, and I want you
to be, ah, someone that I can reach out to, I also want to
help you. I want you to be helpful to us but I want to help
you.
36 | P a g e
RW
Okay.
TA
You know, I want to be your guy but I want you to be our

guy.
RW
Okay.
TA
In the House. I dont want any, any, I dont want anyone

to ever think that I do not understand the burdens that
are placed on you. Cause look, look at what we are doing
here, were having dinner, right? This is a time when you
could have been at a fundraiser with somebody else. And
I understand that, Ron.
RW
Mm Hmm.
TA
And I appreciate your time.
RW
Mm hmm.
TA
You know I do. You know? Its just when somebody,

look, I told one of the folks in, in New York, I said look,
somebody approaches you, you know, Ill, Ill work with a
lobbying group and this is my guy.
RW
Mm hmm.
TA
Tyron. This is, this is the guy you need to talk to.
RW
Mm hmm.
TA
You know. And, and its not for significant things. Its for
things that you may or may not have the time to deal
with. You know what I mean?
RW
Yeah.
TA
Like, like, let, lets make an example of this. Lets say that
somebody wants to talk to you about privatizing water.
Well you dont know well, all of, I dont know all the things
37 | P a g e
that have to do with that, the person might, but now hes
tying up your time.
RW
Yeah.
TA
You know, if you tell him, look, I want you to talk to Tyron
Ali. This is the guy, this is his phone number.
RW
Right.
TA
Set up a meeting with Tyron. That way youre insulated

one and two, you have the ability, I can tell you what
makes sense and then we can work for something else. I
mean these are four different projects that I have here.
RW
Right.
TA
Now I can sit here and talk to you about.
RW
Right.
TA
But at the end of the day, talking about the projects is one
thing; how is it going to be helpful to you?
RW
Right.
TA
To your cause, to your constituents. At, at the end of the

day Ron look, you, it, its okay for you to help everybody,
but you have to kind of look at the fact that if people are
building up their war chest, they can come against you.
RW
Right.
TA
Now if you have enough in your coffer, it kind of puts

them off from doing that.
RW
Oh yeah.
TA
You know that.
RW
Yeah. Oh yeah.
38 | P a g e
TA
You know.
RW
Yeah. Yeah. Oh, I know, if I had (U/I) everything else to

maintain (U/I) the mayor of Philadelphia said that to me
(U/I).
TA
Each elect, each election cycle is like you know, each

senator raises about two hundred thousand dollars.
RW
Wow.
TA
Or three.
RW
Hmm.
TA
[1:31:36] Do you remember when Larry Farnese was

running for Vinces spot?
RW
Right.
TA
Fumo raised, ahm, three hundred thousand dollars for

him.
RW
Right.
TA
In less than a week. From nine Senators out of the

western part of Pennsylvania.
RW
Really?
TA
Yes. Now Im not going to tell you how I know that.
RW
Okay.
TA
But Im going to tell you that that is the absolute truth.
RW
Right.
TA
You know.
39 | P a g e
RW
I dont doubt it.
TA
Im not telling you that I can raise three hundred

thousand dollars in a week, Im telling you that we have
three hundred thousand dollars on hand.
RW
Right.
TA
In excess of that.
RW
Mm hmm.
TA
Much more in excess of that. You know its just, its just
trying to find the right relationships, the right friendships
to work with. Like for example, we have the client in
Philadelphia. Theyre building a collection agency.
RW
Right.
TA
You have a relationship with the Parking Authority if we

can look at a proposal.
RW
Mm hmm.
TA
To the Parking Authority, if we can look at some ways to

help them, and eventually since youre supporting our
cause, we want to support your cause. You know?
RW
Okay, okay, okay.
TA
And thats not quid pro quo. Thats just common sense.
RW
Right.
TA
Do you think that you could lend some attention to that

issue?
RW
Yeah. Sure, sure. I just gotta make sure that I get it right.
TA
And, and, the, the thing is, you know, look at the way the
president raised money. He had a great youth presence,
40 | P a g e
he had a great internet presence. Right. [01:33:24]

RW
Right.
TA
And, and the piece that nobody really looks at is when

you raise certain amounts of money through very direct
means and theyre small amounts. In other words, it
shows that you have real depth.
RW
Mmm hmm.
TA
With your constituents.
RW
Yeah.
TA
Small amounts of money, five thousand here, twenty-five

hundred dollars here, but if you do four twenty-five
hundred dollar fundraisers, one a month or one every two
months, eventually people will say to themselves, even if
youre trough of money isnt that great, they will say he
has great support because when you look at the campaign
finance report, you see you know four hundred donations.
RW
Yeah.
TA
Four hundred contributions.

These are important
benchmarks and its not one group giving you fifty
thousand dollars. Its not that. Its your people helping
you.
RW
Right.
TA
I can handle that.
RW
Yeah.
TA
But, but again, its, its whether or not youre willing. Ill
put forth the effort man, you know Im Indian, Im, I work
like heck.
RW
Yeah.
41 | P a g e
TA
You know.
RW
Yeah.
TA
I will help you.
RW
(U/I) the person I just got (U/I) having a drink with was
Indian.
TA
She was Indian?
RW
Yeah, yeah.
TA
From where?
RW
Ah, I forgot (U/I) talking (U/I) stuff about the history.
TA
Oh American Indian.
RW
American Indian.
TA
I see.
RW
(U/I) I go from one meeting with one lady to another I

keep forgetting (U/I).
TA
[1:35:10] The key to all of this, and again, there, there,

there are only three things that you have to take a look at:
What is the issue?
RW
Mm hmm.
TA
How can we impact the issue?
RW
Mm hmm.
TA
And what are the resources that they bring the client, and
what are the resources that we have already in place?
RW
Okay.
42 | P a g e
TA
In terms of relationships.
RW
Mm hmm.
TA
This is not rocket science. It is not a math equation. It is

simple good political common sense. Thats it.
RW
How does the (U/I) you want to talk about the contract
(U/I)?
TA
Oh.
RW
(U/I).
TA
Okay. Um, Im going to answer that question with just

one word. The word is proposal.
RW
Mm hmm.
TA
We submit a pa--, a five page document that outlines

what the Parking Authority does in terms of their
responsibilities, how they collect money, what are some of
the ineffectiveness policies or the inefficient policies that
make them not as productive or as revenue efficient as
they ought to be and then look to the future. How can we
so, help them solve the problem, how can we continue to
impact the pro--, the problem in a positive way and then
at the end of the day, how would the Parking Authority
recognize greater revenue? Because once they recognize
greater revenue, they less dependent on, on different
subsidies. They also have a greater say at that point in
their own inner workings and beyond that, look at what,
lets just look at the good political common sense. We
send in the proposal, we give it to you, you take it to
them. Vince Fenerty looks like a super star. What do you
think hes going to do? Hes going to return that favor and
even if he doesnt, we will.
RW
Yeah.
43 | P a g e
TA
You know.
RW
So is that kind of money still out there that they havent

collected (U/I).
TA
Yes.
RW
Are they not effective? Or? Or (U/I).
TA
It, its, its not that theyre not effective, ahm Ive written
three collection manuals over you know ten years or so in
the business. One of the things that people do not
understand is the difference between servicing and
collection. If we were to be able to get our client involved
at an earlier stage in the process, we would be able to
impact the revenue faster. You know in terms of what we
could collect. Lets say that the ticket is not, theyre not
going to start collection after the first thirty days, or fortyfive days. We would have a servicing contract where were
working in tandem with the efforts of the Parking
Authority. And then collect or put the person on a
payment plan. Which makes, it makes good sense, the
Parking Authority doesnt have to put out any resources.
Ron this doesnt cost them a dime.
RW
Hmm.
TA
You know, yes?.
???
(U/I) another glass of wine?
RW
No, Im done.
???
Done?
RW
(U/I) could I have coffee?
???
You would like coffee?
RW
Yeah.
44 | P a g e
???
Are you finished with this or are you still (U/I)?
RW
(U/I). I cant eat anymore but its too good to throw away.
???
(U/I) box it up?
RW
I think that is a great idea.
???
Okay, and Ill get your coffee.
RW
(U/I).
???
(U/I).
RW
That was really good.
???
(U/I).
TA
It was a good choice.
RW
(U/I).
TA
So, so, the collection thing is one piece. Okay, well bench
that for now. It, dont, what I would say to you and Im
certainly only making a suggestion.
RW
Mmm hmm.
TA
Think about what we talked about. Let me bring some

resources to the table. You know give me the opportunity
to do that and if the Marcellus Shale. [01:39:53]
RW
(U/I).
TA
Look the Marcellus Shale project, I know a lot more about

it than most people. Why, because weve been working on
this thing for over a year.
RW
Oh.
TA
We knew what was going to happen. Right.

45 | P a g e
RW
Yeah.
TA
Give me the opportunity to talk to those folks.
RW
Mmm hmm.
TA
And then lets figure out who we might be able to work

with see the point of a lobbyist at least in this particular
situation is to get all the knowledge you can and at the
same time, bring some resources but still be insulated
from the process.
RW
Okay.
TA
Dont let them waste your time.
RW
Okay.
TA
You know.
RW
Okay.
TA
This is how its done in DC.
RW
Mmm hmm.
TA
Thats why they call us the third halves. Im not kidding

you.
RW
(U/I). Oh boy. (U/I).
TA
Mmm hmm.
RW
[1:40:42] (U/I) going back to the Parking Authority is that

something you said you would actually have to give to
Vincent if the meeting is arranged or give it to me in
advance?
TA
I think that you, here, heres the thing. If you, if I give it

to you, just be our point person, make sure Vince does
46 | P a g e
what he says hes going to do.

RW
Hmm.
TA
You know, just arrange it. And in addition, because you

were a supervisor, you know how much money they dont
get paid. You can talk to him if you have that kind of
relationship.
RW
Oh yeah.
TA
Do you think you do?
RW
Yeah.
TA
Okay.
RW
Vince and I can talk about anything, man. (U/I) just a

manager, but he wasnt like that when I left there. He was
okay. Shrewd guy, knows all the politicians, but hes
shrewd. Very shrewd. Oh, thank you.
TA
You want some dessert? Hmm hmm. Take this as well.
RW
(U/I).
???
Would you like yours boxed? No?
RW
(U/I) tell I love food?
???
(U/I).
RW
(U/I). I better not.
TA
Heres the cream.
RW
Okay.
???
(U/I).
RW
No (U/I).
47 | P a g e
???
No, youre good?.
RW
(U/I).
TA
Oh yeah.
RW
We dont have any meetings (U/I). Im telling you, man, I

got more, I dont know whats going on, man. (U/I) has
really increased, especially during the time, I mean he was
always there, Frank Oliver (U/I). I remember a guy whos
now a lobbyist (U/I) I remember one day I was there and
he said you dont dress like the rest of those guys (U/I)
but I was pretty nervous, he said I like the way you dress.
I said okay.
TA
I love that tie.
RW
Yeah, I know I get a lot of compliments (U/I) what he was

saying was that I tried, I try to dress (U/I) a little
contemporary but ahm (U/I) Frank Oliver (U/I) person
who is not trusting and ahm (U/I) cause hes been around
for a long time (U/I). But hes still there (U/I) he said
theres a lot of places you could go (U/I) since I became
chair of the Black Caucus (U/I) now that hes in
leadership, how that leadership in the democratic caucus.
I have a leadership role within the caucus now theyre
coming to me too they want my input in decisions theyre
making. So, Im looking at them like, wow.
I mean this
major ahm this is: the Capital. You understand? This is
the Capital. Ive been part of the leadership meetings, to
talk about stuff, the decisions they would make, and they
want my input before they made them. And then I sit
there yesterday to watch all those (U/I) they showed up
they stayed and wanted to be seen you know what I mean.
(U/I) I mean, damn. Im sitting there talking, cameras
rolling. You know, we on TV talking about the events were
on (U/I) look at the amount of people here from the
General Assembly whove come to be a part of our event.
Everybody start applauding. And they all stood there
smiling. Democrats and Republicans (U/I) wanted to be a
48 | P a g e
part of it. You know hes one of those fanatical guys, but
hes a majority leader. He was there, he spoke. You know
other people wanted to speak, wanted to be recognized.
Im telling you I looked at that as kind of a golden
opportunity and then I thought about the thing earlier
that same day I was at a press conference (U/I) you know,
over me, and I say this not to be bragging or boasting, but
obviously there was something happening here that could
be great you know (U/I) use this support to be able to get
some things done. Okay it, cause its very real. And
sometimes (U/I) but I know that all I gotta do is maintain
it and at the right time things will happen. As for me
right now, its a matter about building it, maintaining it,
and sustaining it. And then things when the opportunity
comes, it will already be there and it can be put to use
(U/I) because the relationships are definitely there.
TA
Ill share something with you.
RW
Mmm hmm.
TA
Theres a time and a season.
RW
Mmm.
TA
For almost everything.
RW
Right. Right. Exactly. I agree with that.
TA
You have done many, many good things. And as a result

of that, people recognize your heart.
RW
Yeah.
TA
They recognize the compassion that you have not just for
your constituency.[01:47:23]
RW
Mmm hmm.
TA
But for the things that ail them every hour of each day of
their life.
49 | P a g e
RW
Right.
TA
Heres the other issue. It also affects their children.
RW
Right.
TA
You know as a champion of the ex-offender program,

everybody knows that you are working tirelessly to reduce
the recidivism rate.
RW
Right.
TA
Everybody knows that you are behind education.
RW
Mmm hmm.
TA
[1:47:54] Everybody knows that youve done what you

could do while on Appropriation to help support the
financial cause of most of these other issues cause you
got to get the money.
RW
Right.
TA
Okay. In order to, you talked about building it, so youve

built it. Lets talk about the secondary portion of that.
Lets talk about sustaining it.
RW
Right.
TA
You need resources to sustain it. And Im telling you, as

sure as Im sitting here--
RW
Mm hmm.
TA
I would like to be part of that equation.
RW
Okay.
TA
You know.
50 | P a g e
RW
Okay, you said that more than once. You said that long
years ago.
TA
Ive been telling you this for a long time.
RW
(U/I). This is nothing new.
TA
Right.
RW
Youve been saying this you talk about my campaign care,

and all this stuff and youd like to be a part of that. You
know so its, its like a lot, a lot of it into the works, you
know, its like you put together all the ingredients of what
it takes in order to produce the final product. I guess, uh,
Ive been able, maybe just, you know, without even
knowing, been able to do the things to lay the foundation.
TA
Mm hmm.
RW
You know, now its, now its, now its time to get to the
next level.
TA
And, and heres the other thing that I wanted to inject into
this conversation about the Parking Authority. It has
been losing money for a long time.
RW
Really?
TA
Yes. Ahm.
RW
Because of people not paying or?
TA
Well they lost a lot of money because their collection

efforts have not evolved with the present economic issues
that people are facing. I mean youre not going to pay a
parking fine for fifteen dollars, or twenty five dollars or
forty-three dollars if you have to give your daughter or
your son money to go to school.
RW
Right.
51 | P a g e
TA
Youre just not going to do that. So part of the effort

thats required is for the Parking Authority to take a much
more sensitive stand and look at working with the
customer as opposed to not working with the customer.
RW
Yeah.
TA
And again, there are not that many solutions to this, its
either youre getting paid or youre not. And the way to
ensure that youre getting paid is by entrusting something
that important to people who are truly professionals.
[01:50:25].
RW
Mmm hmm.
TA
In that industry. You know. Ron this is not some small

amount of money. I mean I remember twelve years ago
when I was EVP for St. Hill, we were looking at fourteen
million dollars. Its not some small thing and thats just
in tickets.
RW
Mmm hmm.
TA
What about the penalties, what about the interest, what

about the actual ah judgments that sometimes youre able
to get especially if the amount thats owed is over a
specific amount of money. You know.
RW
Yeah.
TA
You need to ah again you I hope you, you understand that

I come to you with nothing but sincerity and, and beyond
that, ah a certain amount of intuitiveness, and some
insight.
RW
Mmm hmm.
TA
I sincerely want you to be successful. I do.
RW
You do.
52 | P a g e
TA
Ive been telling you this for six years.
RW
Yeah.
TA
Now.
RW
Yeah. Yeah.
TA
I, I mean Ive been telling you this since I was thin.
RW
I know.
TA
You know.
RW
Yeah.
TA
Ive been telling you this when Im, when up to three

hundred pounds and now Im down.
RW
Yeah.
TA
To, two, two twenty five. Im still telling you this.
RW
(U/I).
TA
Almost. Yeah. But look man, you have three lunches a

day, I mean you, you know. This is not something new
were talking about sir.
RW
What are you at now?
TA
Two twenty five. I lost seventy-five pounds.
RW
(U/I).
TA
And then see the thing about it is if you can encourage,

endorse and mentor somebody else, that makes sense too.
RW
Okay.
TA
You know.
But well talk about that later on down the

53 | P a g e
road.
RW
Okay.
TA
Excuse me dear. Can I have the check please. You know.

Ahm are you going to be in the office on Friday?
RW
(U/I).
TA
Alright. Look this is what I suggest we do if you agree

with me, then tell me yes or no. Give me two or three
days to put together ahm a three-pager that you could
just sort of read through.
RW
Okay.
TA
And maybe you can discuss it with whoever you need to

and then well come back to the table. And the other
piece of that, thats the A part of what I want to ask you,
the secondary part is think about giving me the
opportunity to work along side some of the folks. Im a
registered lobbyist, Ron. Nothing but good is going to
come out of that. Work with them and then bring those
issues to you. I do that for other people.
RW
Okay.
TA
RW
Mmm hmm.
TA
Because how many lobbyists from Philadelphia are there?

Not that many. Less than twenty. You know the majority
of the folks, the majority of the opinion that youre going
to have ah exists within the confines of Harrisburg and
western Pennsylvania. [01:53:13]
RW
A lot of problems too (U/I) even lobbying firms (U/I).
TA
Mmm hmm.
54 | P a g e
RW
(U/I).
TA
Right. Somebody you know for Gods sake. I just need a

receipt dear.
RW
(U/I).
TA
Can I have this one? And some change. Thank you.
RW
(U/I) I told people, ahm, it was one of my colleagues (U/I)

other peoples opinions (U/I) probe with Jewell.
TA
Yes.
RW
(U/I) said to me.
TA
Yes.
RW
(U/I) He aint shit, you know, cause he saw us talking

over Louises house.
TA
Right.
RW
You know, and this (U/I) guy, you know hes under
investigation. First of all, he talked to some people that,
under investigation, probably talking about his
relationships thats under investigation (U/I) since Gail,
Mike Veon these are all people that he was connected with
(U/I).
TA
Right.
RW
You know?
TA
Right.
RW
He was down there kissing Bill Dewees butt.
TA
Mmm hmm.
RW
(U/I).
55 | P a g e
TA
Mmm hmm.
RW
(U/I). You listen to me I listen to you (U/I) you gotta

watch the people who youre listening to (U/I) crazy stuff
(U/I) so he come to me (U/I) who you talking to? You the
one in the papers (U/I) casino up there in Mount Airy
(U/I) people wondering, people talk wondering how he
keeps getting out of these jams (U/I) grand-jury
investigation and everything else he keeps getting out of
this shit (U/I) free walking again. Makes you wonder.
TA
You dont have to wonder.
RW
Yeah I know.
TA
Alright. You dont have, Ron, can I say something.
RW
Yeah.
TA
To you.
RW
Yeah.
TA
Thank you so much dear.
???
Youre very welcome. Well thank you gentleman. Have a

great (U/I).
RW
(U/I).
TA
That situation that occurred more than, almost two years

or little more than two years ago. Let me tell you this. We
had a situation where over a million dollars a year was
coming in. Right. From different places, going into one
account. So when the monies being dispersed, the funds
are coming out.
RW
Yeah.
TA
Right. My name, Im the owner. [01:56:30]

56 | P a g e
RW
Oh.
TA
Who else are they going to come for? Nobody ever called
me and said hey look you didnt pay these folks. Never
did. Theres a reason for that. The other thing Jewell
should look at is that Ive been in Philadelphia since I was
sixteen years old. I went to school here. Ive worked
here. I worked very hard here. Ah Ive achieved and Im
not tooting my own horn here, but I think my English is
okay. Ive made some friends. Ive accomplished some
level of success. At times, youre going to find yourself in
a difficult predicament and if you have some honor and
some integrity, the truth will come out. And thats what
happened and that is the only reason that my liberty was
not compromised. You can look at the bank statements
and you can see it. And the other thing I will say to you is
this, he said this about me to someone who is very close
to me. And thats in leadership. And they just sort of
looked at him and moved their face. Cause everybody
knows what Jewell is.
RW
Everybody knows.
TA
I am a registered lobbyist. Do you think they would ever

let me be a registered lobbyist if I was going to be charged
or if I had a felony conviction?
RW
Yeah, yeah.
TA
Is he crazy?
RW
Yeah, but (U/I) theres such a thing as reason, and theres

such a thing as rhyme. Hes not giving a lot of reason
(U/I). It has nothing to do with (U/I).
TA
True. [01:58:16]
RW
It has everything to do with what he wants to do (U/I).
TA
Theres also that little situation he is sort of jealous about.

57 | P a g e
RW
Right.
TA
You know. Ahm look Ive raised a lot of money for folks in
my life. I have done fairly well.
RW
Right.
TA
I am not forty years old. On paper, Im a millionaire. Im

not boasting.
RW
Right.
TA
Im not boasting.
RW
Right.
TA
But theres a reason that my life didnt change. You know

its because my family, weve achieved a certain level of
success. Weve worked very hard. Sometimes theres
nothing you can do about that unguarded moment. Ive
been a lobbyist for five years. Of course theyre going to
look at you. Youre raising millions of doll, we have
money. What do you think is going to happen?
RW
Right.
TA
And were not giving Jewell any. Could you imagine if we

invested three hundred thousand dollars in his
neighborhood.
RW
Mmm hmm.
TA
And did not ask him for anything.
RW
Yeah.
TA
I dont have to. I understand the law. I understand how

to move things around. I understand how to make things
occur.
58 | P a g e
RW
The only reason I say it is because, I mean, this guy, look

you aint the first person.
TA
Mmm hmm.
RW
(U/I). This is, this is, this is, this is what his options
going to be (U/I).
Right.
TA
RW
This is what his options are: hes either gonna look at it

and come and intercede in the conversation to see if he
can direct it, or look at it and talk down about it because
he cant direct it, or hes gonna try to spook you in a way
that makes you feel as though you should decline it. Ive
watched him. I watched everything they could do. Its
never one of support. Its never where he sees the
resources and says (U/I) thats the way were going to
solve it, you know lets try to make it work for both of us,
he would never do that.
TA
Right.
RW
Okay, he would only want to see it work for himself. (U/I)

its gonna be something bad. Hes not the kind of person
that try to talk to somebody (U/I) shes a bitch. Wait, wait
a minute ago you was in love with me now all of sudden
since you cant have your way now youre a bitch. So for
him its that kind of way.
TA
Ill tell you something else. Him and his colleague from
North Philadelphia, I mean Ron Brooks, I think I shared
this with you. Im going to tell you again. Just so that I
can refresh your memory. While I was at the law firm, I
was making hundreds of thousands of dollars.
Im
expensive.
RW
Mmm hmm.
TA
Always have been. But I do the work.
RW
Yeah.
59 | P a g e
TA
They wanted me to raise eighteen million dollars for

Berene Institute.
Okay.
Ahm there, there, ah Tim
somebody, the accountant, and Spencer.
Norman
Spencer.
RW
(U/I).
TA
You know, you know, you know.
RW
Yeah.
TA
They just didnt want to pay me. And Shirley and I, I love
her to death.
RW
Mmm hmm.
TA
We got into a tiff. Jewell was part of that. Because I was

not going to let anyone run me. Not going to let that
happen. I cant. Were in business. Beyond that, I felt
like I had been loyal. I had been ah a real ahm friend to,
to, to those folks in North Philadelphia. It, because thats
where I was raised. Thats what I know.
RW
Mmm hmm.
TA
But at the end of the day, you cannot keep doing the
same things expecting different results. I was very loyal to
them and the results were negative.
RW
Thats right.
TA
So I have learned to branch out you know. Not just

branch out but to help out you know. Thats one of the
reasons why I started looking for clients outside of, of
Philadelphia.
RW
Okay.
TA
Because there are people who need my help, who simply

do not understand the process. Not only do they not
60 | P a g e
understand the process, they dont understand politics.

RW
Right.
TA
You know a shift in policy can create a real opportunity.

Or it can take away an opportunity.
RW
Right.
TA
You know Im, Im not going to sit down and even you
know try to understand why Jewell would say things
about me to somebody in leadership like you or my other
friend you know. But I understand why. You know, I
understand why. See he, he doesnt have his own money.
RW
Mmm hmm.
TA
So he has to go around and create value and create favors

and then lie to people about what he can and cant do.
RW
Right. [02:03:16]
TA
Everybody I talked to said hey look. If, if youre innocent,

youre going to be okay, and theyre going to give you a
lobbying license and youre going to be fine.
RW
Yeah.
TA
And thats exactly what happened.
RW
Right.
TA
You know. Beyond that, I didnt lose my name. I mean

there were some people who said hey, maybe. I dont
know. Maybe he did this, I dont know. But the people
who really know me, they say wait a second. Ty got a lot of
money. He dont need them. What is that? You know.
Look man at the end of the day, Im just looking to be
helpful.
RW
Okay.
61 | P a g e
TA
And to be a resource to the people who see me as such.
RW
Okay.
TA
You know. Like I said, it would take me, maybe like three
days.
RW
Mmm hmm.
TA
To put together something for you.
RW
Okay.
TA
You know.
RW
(U/I).
TA
And then well go and.
RW
(U/I).
TA
Ill give it to you. [2:04:07] Let me ask you this, would

Vince be the person that would make the decision on
something like this?
RW
Yeah.
TA
Oh, okay.
RW
At the Parking Authority?
TA
Mm hmm.
RW
Hes the man. (U/I) you know. I mean he had a sponsor

at one time that, um, you know (U/I) know what he was
doing, and that was John Perzel.
TA
Right.
RW
But I dont know what was going on with that now (U/I).
62 | P a g e
TA
Right.
RW
(U/I) but the Republicans that are in charge now.
TA
Mm hmm.
RW
Are (U/I) the Parking Authority whats going on there

(U/I).
TA
If Vince is the person that would make the decision. I will

make sure that it is a good decision all around.
RW
(U/I) a guy named Bill (U/I) two guys (U/I) the top dogs
there. They got this other guy there named (U/I), but hes
not over Vince, he just took over the way they pay the
tickets (U/I) got jammed up in that investigation.
TA
Mmm hmm.
RW
That she brought on herself.
TA
Im not laughing but you can certainly appreciate.
RW
I know.
TA
The comedy of it all.
RW
Yeah. (U/I).
TA
And, and, and the thing is, he moves quickly, we move

quickly. You know.
RW
Yes.
TA
And if hes somebody that you have a relationship with,

this is the business of politics. This is how we work it
through, and again, you know.
RW
(U/I).
63 | P a g e
TA
I cant.
RW
Thats a (U/I) relationship (U/I).
TA
Sure.
RW
(U/I) times that he was in my house (U/I).
TA
Mmm hmm.
RW
(U/I) I got his number on speed dial, Ill give him a call.
(U/I) no knowledge of this stuff, man, and he was able to
act quickly and swiftly (U/I).
TA
Wow.
RW
(U/I) this is Philadelphia (U/I). So he knows that. (U/I).
TA
Right.
RW
The other one is, of course, Dwight, (U/I) I mean you dont
even see him on the floor (U/I).
TA
You have some very how can I describe them, anxious

friends of Dwight right now. They are very anxious. And
its not in a good way.
RW
Yeah.
TA
Yes. You know. Ahm again you know, a time and a

season for everything.
RW
Yeah.
TA
And his time and season you know Im not saying that it
is expired completely but for right now, ahm you know
you have to be that person that everybody knows you to
be. Be that leader that everybody expects you to be and
they know it.
RW
Yeah.
64 | P a g e
TA
You know. You, you, you will, help you know. You will
help people look at things a little bit differently and for
that, they will grateful. [02:07:50]
RW
Yeah.
TA
As our clients will be grateful you know.
RW
Okay. Well, I appreciate your conversation.
TA
Ron, I appreciate your time.
RW
Politics, man, you know always factors in. Its always

better to get a second opinion an outside opinion.
TA
Absolutely.
RW
(U/I).
TA
And, and the

reach out to
caucus to get
aisles. I can
out.
RW
Okay.
TA
You know cause were all lobbyists. You know. (U/I) you
know. So I will call you in the morning.
RW
Alright.
TA
Alright and Ill be in Philadelphia tomorrow afternoon.
RW
Yeah, me too.
TA
Ahm.
RW
Oh, this lady is great, man.
other thing, you know, I could, you could

you know ahm some of the folks in the
information or some of the folks across the
reach out to folks nationwide and figure it
65 | P a g e
TA
Ha ha.
RW
If we come
TA
Yes, yes.
RW
Back here again I want her to be our server. Make sure.
TA
Okay. Great. Make sure. [2:08:42] Um, I actually have

another meeting now, um, but I will call you in the
morning, and then look, just tell Vince, you know?
RW
Right.
TA
Explain the situation.
RW
Right.
TA
Alright?
RW
Okay.
TA
Alright sir.
RW
Alright.
TA
Ill see you soon.
RW
Alright.
TA
Thank you.
???
Thank you.
TA
Thank you dear. Do you have your phone, Ron? Ron?

Do you have your phone? Did you pick it up?
RW
Yeah I did.
TA
Okay. Let me just.

Thank you.
Okay, it looks okay.
66 | P a g e
Good night.
RW
Does this door work?
TA
Yeah its open. Um, Ill call you in the morning.
RW
Okay.
TA
And Ill see you on Thursday.
RW
Alright.
TA
Ill bring something for you.
RW
Alright.
TA
Alright. Thank you sir.
RW
Thank you.
TA
Youre welcome.
RW
(U/I).
TA
And look. You know the truth is the next time I come up
here, well go to ah McGraths or the Firehouse.
RW
Okay.
TA
Alright. Alright.
RW
(U/I).
TA
See you now. Ill call you first thing in the morning.
SSSAT
The device is being deactivated again todays date is

Wednesday, February the 9th, year 2011. Time is 21:05
hundred hours.
67 | P a g e
Tape%52(%February%14,%2011%
CLAUDE%THOMAS:%%Pennsylvania%Office%of%Attorney%General,%Badge%Number%118%%A%Certification%
Number%is%A1418.%Today's%date%is%Monday,%February%14th,%year(2010.%Current%time%is%19:22%
hours.%This%recording%device%will%be%placed%on%CI%2010(01%in%reference%to%investigation%number%
36(622.%%CI%will%be%having%a%recorded%communications%with%Rep%RW%and%within%the%confines%of%
the%city%of%Harrisburg,%and%County%of%Dauphin%County.%This%tape%will%be%deactivated%at%a%later%
time%by%myself.%%
%
TYRON%ALI:%Hi%there%
HOSTESS:%Hello,%how%are%you?%
TYRON%ALI:%Two%for%dinner%please%
HOSTESS:%Two%for%dinner.%Did%you%make%a%reservation?%
TYRON%ALI:%No,%I%did%not%
HOSTESS:%Hey,%going%crazy%
[3:35]%
TYRON%ALI:%So%I%see.%Thank%you.%
HOSTESS:%And%you'll%be%able%to%see%who's%coming%in%the%door%this%way,%ok?%
TYRON%ALI:%Yes,%thank%you.%
HOSTESS:%And%Megan%will%be%your%server.%
TYRON%ALI:%Thank%you.%
HOSTESS:%Alright%
TYRON%ALI:%Hello%Megan,%how%are%you?%Again.%
FEMALE%SERVER:%I'm%good,%how%are%you?%
TYRON%ALI:%How%are%you%doing?%
FEMALE%SERVER:%I'm%very%good.%How%are%you?%
TYRON%ALI:%Good.%Same%dinner%guest,%I'm%just%waiting%for%him%to%arrive.%
FEMALE%SERVER:%Okay.%What%would%you%like%to%drink?%
TYRON%ALI:%Can%I%have%a%Diet%Coke?%
FEMALE%SERVER:%Yes.%
TYRON%ALI:%Can%I%have%another%napkin,%please?%
1%
%
FEMALE%SERVER:%Yea.%
TYRON%ALI:%Thank%you.%
[4:14%%pause]%
12:21:00%
TYRON%ALI:%Hey%there,%sir.%How%are%ya?%
RON%WATERS:%Alright.%
TYRON%ALI:%How%ya%doing?%Good?%
RON%WATERS:%Yea.%
TYRON%ALI:%Aw,%long%day?%You%look%great.%Nice%tie.%
RON%WATERS:%(laughs)%Thank%you.%
TYRON%ALI:%You're%always%dressed%so%well.%
RON%WATERS:%Man...%
TYRON%ALI:%What%happened%today?%
RON%WATERS:%I'm%trying%to%represent,%that's%all.%
TYRON%ALI:%Oh,%ok.%
RON%WATERS:%(Laughs)%yea.%
TYRON%ALI:%All%the%well(dressed%gentlemen%of%Philadelphia.%
RON%WATERS:%Yea.%
TYRON%ALI:%How%you%doing,%you%alright?%
RON%WATERS:%I'm%alright,%how%you%been?%
TYRON%ALI:%Well....busy.%
RON%WATERS:%What%time%you%get%up%here?%
TYRON%ALI:%This%morning?%%
RON%WATERS:%Oh%you%live%around%here?%
TYRON%ALI:%Yea,%my%grandmother,%she%passed%away%around%2:30%this%morning%and%I%had%some%
things%so%organized%that%it%would%affect%us%if%I%did%not%do%it%so,%you%know%we%had%to%be%up%here%
all%day.%But%its%ok,%God's%taking%care%of%her%now,%man.%You%know?%It's%okay.%
FEMALE%SERVER:%Hey,%how%are%you?%
2%
%
RON%WATERS:%Hi.%Good%how%you%doing?%
FEMALE%SERVER:%What%can%I%get%you%to%drink?%
RON%WATERS:%I'll%have%a,%how%about%Riesling?%
FEMALE%SERVER:%Riesling?%
RON%WATERS:%Yes.%
FEMALE%SERVER:%Ok.%
RON%WATERS:%Yea,%Riesling.%Thats%always%good.%Whatever%man,%they%probably%full.%
TYRON%ALI:%There's%a%big%crowd%at%the%firehouse%too.%
RON%WATERS:%Is%it?%OK.%
TYRON%ALI:%They%got%this%whole%Shale%situation%going%on.%
RON%WATERS:%Ok.%Who?%
TYRON%ALI:%Marcellus%Shale.%
RON%WATERS:%Oh%yea?%
TYRON%ALI:%I%just%came%away,%I%just%met%with%some%folks%from%the%Auditor%General's%office,%some%
folks%from%the%House,%couple%of%Senators,%tomorrow%I%think%Vince%is%having%his%little%thing.%
RON%WATERS:%What%is%he%having?%
TYRON%ALI:%A%fundraiser,%here%in%the%morning%at%7:30.%I%don't%think%we're%going%to%participate%
only%because%we%have%our%guy%already.%
RON%WATERS:%Ok,%(laugh)%he%had%a%press%conference%today..%
TYRON%ALI:%What%happened?%Really,%for%what?%
RON%WATERS:%It%was%a%press%conference%on...uh...oh,%the%agenda.%The%agenda.%You%know,%some%
of%the%things%that%they%value%%
[14:42]%
TYRON%ALI:%It%terms%of%what?%
RON%WATERS:%You%know,%they%know%the%cuts%are%coming%%
TYRON%ALI:%%Yes.%
RON%WATERS:%%And%so%they%want%to%talk%about%stuff%that%they%want%us%see%us%work%on%jobs,%ah%
they%want%to%see%us%work%on%uh%campaign%reform,%they%talked%about,%they%talked%about,%it%was%
like%criticizing%the%Republicans%for%not%moving%on%certain%things.%%
3%
%
TYRON%ALI:%Mm%Hmm%
RON%WATERS:%And%what%they%had%moved%on%so%far,%is%not%important%to%the%people%who%
represent,%you%know%the%corporate%folk.%
TYRON%ALI:%Sure.%
RON%WATERS:%All%right.%
[15:20]%
TYRON%ALI:%But%you%know,%at%the%end%of%the%day%you%have%to%be%able%to%extract%value%from%
things%that%you%would%not%normally%associate%with%having%value.%I'll%give%you%an%example.%Did%
you%get%a%chance%to%talk%to%Vince,%you%didn't?%
RON%WATERS:%I%haven't%talked%to%him.%Every%now%and%then,%he%needs%me%for%something,%he'll%
call%me.%Or%I'll%call%if%I%need%him%for%something.%Every%time%I%call%him,%he%be%like,%you%need%me%for%
something.%You%know.%He%calls%me%every%now%and%then,%rarely%he'll%call.%He'll%call%me%for,%he'll,%
you%wanna%talk%about%the%ah,%about%the%fact%that%he%has...but%how%much%money%you%said%about%
that%they%have%in%uncollected%money?%
TYRON%ALI:%In%2%years%it%was%1.7%million.%
RON%WATERS:%Ok.%
TYRON%ALI:%That's%just%two%years.%
RON%WATERS:%Ok.%
TYRON%ALI:%And%that's%what%they%know%about.%
RON%WATERS:%Ok.%
TYRON%ALI:%You%know?%
RON%WATERS:%1.7%in%2%years?%
TYRON%ALI:%Yes.%
RON%WATERS:%Uncollected?%
TYRON%ALI:%Mm%Hmm.%Those%are%the%actual....they're%not%audited,%they're%unaudited%but%it's%
from%ParenteBeard,%the%auditor%that%was%assigned%to%them.%%
RON%WATERS:%Hmm.%So,%I%mean%so%what,%so%this%is%money%that%is%uncollected%on%top%of%the%
normal%collections%agency?%
TYRON%ALI:%Yes.%
4%
%
RON%WATERS:%Ok.%So%is%that...I'm%sure%the%number%has%to%be%higher%than%that,%the%total%amount%
they%are%owed.%%
TYRON%ALI:%Of%course.%
RON%WATERS:%Normally%people%don't%pay.%
TYRON%ALI:%And,%you%know,%the%truth%of%the%matter%is,%beyond%what%is,%look,%you've%got%to%take%a%
look%at%the%categories,%right?%So%you%might%have%tickets%and%fines,%you%have%red%light%cameras,%
you%have%some%of%the%situations%with%handicap%parking,%those%types%of%tickets%for%privilege%
parking.%
RON%WATERS:%Right.%
TYRON%ALI:%Then%you've%got%the%parking%fines%for%different%types%of%events.%
RON%WATERS:%Right.%
TYRON%ALI:%Then%you've%got%the%penalties%associated%with%that.%And%then%you've%got%the%actual%
collections%from%the%kiosks.%Because%sometimes%you%may%get%a%parking%ticket,%there's%a%kiosk%
there,%you%may%have%a%ticket%there%plus%the%kiosk%fine,%but%I%don't%know%what%that%is...%
RON%WATERS:%Yea,%that's%about%$10%more.%
TYRON%ALI:%Yea%
RON%WATERS:%Over%a%regular%ticket.%
TYRON%ALI:%You%know,%so,%there%are%a%plethora%of%issues.%And%you%know,%the%thing%I%want%to%kind%
of%bring%home,%because%I%know%you%and%I%have%been%sort%of%talking%about%it.%Look(%I%have%that,%
with%you%that%being%able%to%sort%of%assist%you%in%what%your%vision%is,%you%know%what%I%mean?%And%
I%think%that,%I%think%that%it%would%be%helpful.%Besides%that,%you%have%to%almost,%you%know%the%
truth%of%the%matter%is,%all%of%the%non(profits%are%going%to%become%desperate%for%cash.%Period.%
Right?%Now,%if%we%were%to%be%able%to%look%at%the%non(profit%organization%that%did%something%
important,%I%mean,%Ron,%look,%at%the%end%of%the%day%I%see%you%as%a%partner%in%this,%whether%you%
agree%with%that%or%not.%That's%how%I%see%you.%Because%that's%the%only%way%you%can%make%actually%
make%this%make%sense.%You%can't%do%it%any%other%way.%And%now%it's%like,%ok?%What%are%the%things%
that%are%important%to%you?%I%understand%the%recidivism%issue,%what%else?%%
RON%WATERS:%Like,%oh,%I'm%willing%to%keep%this%until%next%week.%The%next%couple%days%I'm%gonna%
be%in%DC.%I%got%some%of%these%places%that%I%need%national,%the%National%Black%Caucus.%[inaudible]%
((%I%did%two,%one%on%immigration%reform,%the%other%one%on%dealing%with%the%cultural%competency%
and%continual%education%and%that's%gotten%national%attention.%So%the%health%disparity%issues%that%
become%more%my%issue,%of%course%we're%gonna%wanna%do,%I%mean%recidivism%yes,%and%the%fact%
that%the%justice%system%isn't%working.%Ok.%Because,%at%least%in%my%opinion,%because%prison%is%not%
solving%the%problem,%but%it's%finding%who,%([inaudible](%in%control.%
5%
%
20:06%
TYRON%ALI:%You%have%your%[inaudible](%
RON%WATERS:%Huh?%
TYRON%ALI:%You%have%your%(???)%
RON%WATERS:%Yea,%I%do.%%
TYRON%ALI:%What's%yours?%
RON%WATERS:%([inaudible](%
TYRON%ALI:%Oh%([inaudible](%
RON%WATERS:%Yea,%yea.%
20:19%
TYRON%ALI:%Um,%with%regard%to%recidivism,%what%do%you%see%in%terms%of%like,%how%things%are%
moving?%Do%you%see%them%moving%forward?%Do%you%see%progress%being%made?%
RON%WATERS:%Well%I%see%more%and%more%people,%I%was%at%the%installment%last%night%of%the%black%(
([inaudible]((%they%held%a%assembly%out%there.%They%had%a%guest%speaker%come%in%from%New%York,%
something%about%(([inaudible]((%different%religions%coming%together.%Not%religions,%but%different%
denominations%of%Christian%religions%coming%together.%And%then,%they%shape%the%conversation%
into%this%Michelle%Alexanders%book%The%New%Jim%Crow%and%we%want%to%do%that,%and%then%the%
Mayor%got%up%after%him%and%the%Mayor%was%doing%a%speech%but%the%Mayor%didnt%have%anything%
left%to%say%because%he%wanted%to%say%the%same%thing%this%guy%was%saying,%and%Arlene%Ackerman%
was%there,%the%school%superintendent%and%she%wanted%to%speak,%but%he%had%already%stole%her%
thunder%and%he%definitely%stole%my%thunder,%so%what%Im%saying%is%that%if%we%deliver%the%
president%say,%he%stole%her%thunder,%so%everybody%safety%be%now%looking%at%this%issue%as%
something%that%can%be%correct,%I%deal%with%it,%I%deal%with%it%because%its%a%public%safety%issue,%%to%
me,%and%if%we%don't%champion%this%in%terms%of%how%the%end%process,%or%at%least%be%crime(
stoppers,%you%got%to%be%crime(fighters.%I%believe%that%we're%not%really%serving%the%public%well.%
And%that's%where%I%come%from%on%that%issue.%But%the%health%imperative%is%another%issue%too%that%
seems%to%me%(([inaudible]((%this%last%trip%I%had%a%think%group,%um%a%think%tank%of%physicians%that%
work%with%me.%And%now%Im%looking%at,%I%need%somebody%to%tell%me%today,%the%things%I%probably%
need%to%get%a%legal%advisor%attached%to%what%I'm%doing%now%because%I'm%growing%and%more%
public%awareness,%I'm,%people%know%the%name%so,%they%hear%my%name,%people%know%who%I%am%so%
it's%not%like%I%don't%have%like,%I'm%not%saying%a%household%name,%but%I%do%have%some%level%of%
credibility.%%
[22:24]%
6%
%
TYRON%ALI:%Sure,%that's%beyond%credibility.%People%associate%you%with%the%cause.%You%know?%If,%
for%nothing%else,%certainly%the%ex(offender,%recidivism,%progressive%movement.%They%see%you%as%
such.%
RON%WATERS:%Right.%
TYRON%ALI:%But,%you%know?%At%the%end%of%the%day,%unless%you%are%able%to%look%at%working%with%
community%groups,%grassroots%organizations,%non(profits.%The%non(profit%piece,%as%I%shared%this%
with%you%a%couple%of%weeks%ago,%we%have%appropriated%money%by%committee.%Period.%Ok?%And%
the%easiest%way%to,%not%just%deal%with%the%issues%that%we%think%are%important,%but%to%deal%with%
the%money,%the%financing%behind%it.%I've%already%looked%at%the%best%possible%way%to%do%it,%and%for%
me%it's%a%non(profit.%You%know?%And%it's%like%trying%to%figure%out,%ok,%who%do%we%include%in%this?%
And%it's%like,%if%we%do%include%this%person,%what%does%that%person%bring%to%the%table%((%
RON%WATERS:%Right.%
TYRON%ALI:%((%for%us.%%%
RON%WATERS:%%Right.%
TYRON%ALI:%But%there%has%to%be%mutual%benefit.%You%know%at%the%end%of%the%day,%I%have%a%boss%
too.%You%know?%
RON%WATERS:%But%what%are%some%of%the%main%issues,%I%know%that%there's%one%with%the%
privatizing%of%the%state%stores((%
TYRON%ALI:%Yes.%
RON%WATERS:%That%that%is%important%to%you?%
TYRON%ALI:%The%Shale%issue%is%an%important%issue.%
RON%WATERS:%The%Shale%is?%In%what%way?%
TYRON%ALI:%Here's%the%thing:%They%put%together%a%Marcellus%Shale%coalition%that%has%full%
members%and%associate%members%and%we%would%like%to%bring%our%client%to%the%table,%perhaps%
not%now,%but%maybe%eventually,%as%a,%an%associate%member.%Beyond%that,%we%want%to%know%
what%else,%in%terms%of%opportunities,%lie%within.%And%I'll%give%you%an%example:%When%they%
continue%to%hydrofrack,%the%toxicity%that%comes%into%contact%with%well%water%is%incredible.%So%
maybe%we%could%create%a%non(profit%organization%to%make%people%aware%of%the%toxicity%of%the%
well%water%or%the%contamination%that%could%be%caused%from%hydro%fracking.%There,%Ron%look,%I%
could%paint%the%picture%a%hundred%million%ways,%it's%what%make%sense%for%us%now.%
RON%WATERS:%Ok.%
7%
%
TYRON%ALI:%%And%then%what%are%the%long(term%objectives%and%then%who%are%our%partners%in%this,%
you%know?%Who%are%our%people?%We%have%two%or%three%little%things%that%are%on%the%table,%I%
mean%this%is%not%a%little%thing%but%it's%on%the%table.%
RON%WATERS:%Right.%
TYRON%ALI:%You%know,%If%you%could%help%us%out%with%it%I%would%greatly%appreciate%it.%You%know%I%
would.%Because%getting%jobs%in%Philadelphia%is%a%critical%issue,%but%then%to%be%able%to%fund%the%
jobs,%that%is%also%the%critical%issue.%And%then%beyond%funding%the%jobs%and%getting%some%of%the%
some%some%some%project%together%to%be%able%to%do%those%things,%you%still%need%a%way%to%raise%
awareness.%And%the%only%way,%the%best%way,%the%most%reasonable%way%to%do%that%is%through%a%
non(profit%organization.%
RON%WATERS:%Ok.%
RON%WATERS:%Yea.%
TYRON%ALI:%Plus,%we%can%always%get%public%dollars%and,%and,%private%partnerships,%you%know.%Sort%
of%focusing%in%on%the%same%goals.%We%could%raise%money%privately,%we%could%raise%money%
publicly.%And%to%be%able%to%have,%you%know,%a%partner%in%that%deal,%that's,%that's%what%my%hand%is.%
I%told%you.%In%Harrisburg,%I%told%our%folks...%
RON%WATERS:%Right.%
TYRON%ALI:%You're%the%only%person%I'm%dealing%with.%You%know,%I'm%not%hop,%skipping%and%
jumping%around.%
[25:59]%
RON%WATERS:%Ok%then%let's%go%down,%dealing%with%the%Marcellus%Shale%thing,%now%because%that%
has,%you%know%that%is,%that%came%up%in%there%today%too%but%it%came%up%only%because%they're%
saying%that%there%has%to%be,%they%know%there's%gonna%be%jobs%there%but%it's%also%a%problem%with,%
is%the%Marcellus%Shale%being%taxed%appropriately%and%it's%like,%the%economic%environment%that%
we're%in%right%now,%we%should%be%certain%until%every%available%revenue%source%we%can....%
TYRON%ALI:%Well,%well%here's%a%question:%
RON%WATERS:%If%you%let%them%off%the%hook...%
TYRON%ALI:%You%can't%look%at%it%as%letting%them%off%the%hook.%Look,%there%are%a%lot%of%ways%you%
can%raise%money%and%not%quote(unquote%"let%them%off%the%hook".%Have%you%ever%heard%of%
something%called%DISC?%DISC%is%actually,%it's%an%acronym%for%a%surcharge%that%allows%((%Alright,%I'll%
give%you%a%better%example.%Somebody%in%Allegheny%County,%for%example,%passed%away%in%a%fire%
of%Bassets%clothing.%If%they%had%this%DISC%surcharge,%this%surcharge%would%have%paid%for%the%
installation%of%the%new%gas%pipes%and%that%is%something%that's%not%off%the%table,%as%of%yet,%with%
8%
%
the%Shale%project.%That's%a%very%good%way%to%increase%the%delivery%system,%it's%a%great%way%to%tax%
it,%and%it's%a%great%way%to%keep,%you%know,%beyond%the%creation%of%the%job,%now%you%can%actually%
sustain%it.%You%can%sustain%the%delivery%system,%you%know%what%I%mean?%And%you%can't%get%it%
without,%you%can't%get%the%natural,%you%can't%get%to%the%natural%gas%unless%you%have%the%right%
delivery%system%in%place.%Again,%that%leaves%an%opportunity%for%a%non(profit%organization%so%that%
you%can%actually%educate%the%consumers,%outside%of,%of,%you%know,%Philadelphia,%because%
Philadelphia%really%has%nothing%to%do%with%that.%In%the%counties,%you%can%educate%those%folks%
about%what's%going%on.%And%at%that%point,%you%can%actually%lobby%your%colleagues%for%that%cause.%%
TYRON%ALI:%And%if%we%can%put%money%behind%it%and%you,%see,%I%keep,%I%told%you%this%before.%If%
your%folks%see%you%as%the%go(to%guy,%nothing's%gonna,%nobody's%even%going%to%think%about%
running%against%you.%If%they%see%you,%and%let's%say%it's%someb%((%let's%pick%a%guy%like%Wheaton.%I%
know%he's%a%polite%guy,%ok.%But%let's%say%that%we've%already%appropriated%some%money%for%
education.%And%he%comes%to%you%and%he%says,%you%know,%Chairman,%look,%we%need,%we%need%
$1500%man%for%a%scholarship%to%send%this%kid%to%learn%how%to%be,%and%there%is%a%program,%to%
allow%young%men%and%women%to%learn%how%to%detoxify%the%water,%how%to%be%a%well%tester.%You%
know,%and%you%give%them%one%or%two%scholarships.%People%will%come%to%you%and%they'll%say,%
"Wow,%man!%That's%something%that%we%couldn't%get%before!"%
RON%WATERS:%Yea%
[28:52]%
TYRON%ALI:%The%the%it's%not%just%that%the%politics%have%changed,%the%opportunity%has%changed.%
We're%talking%about%80,000%new%jobs(%this%is%not%something%small.%
RON%WATERS:%No%
RON%WATERS:%No%
TYRON%ALI:%This%is%not%some%small%little%thing.%
[29:11]%
RON%WATERS:%We%want%to%be%able%to%take%a%tour%of%the%facility%and%arrange%this%with%the%
leadership%so%they%can%take%a%tour.%But%that's%really%on%my%way%out%to%(([inaudible]((%we%want%to,%
we%want%to%walk%through%there%around%1:30%(([inaudible]((%because%um,%the%northeastern%part%
of%the%state,%it's%going%to%be%a%lot%of%not%only%the%drilling,%but%also%some%development%out%there%
in%terms%of%building%the%hotels,%restaurants%and%other%commercial%merchants%because%of%the%
amount%of%employers,%employees%thats%gonna%be%out%there.%We%went%out%there%because%that's%
gonna%be%like%a%model%to%present%to%the%rest%of%the%um..But%I%want%to%do%it%because%as%the%
chairman%of%black%caucus,%I%also%want%to%be%able%to%encourage%people%of%Philadelphia%who%are%
9%
%
out%of%work,%so%they%see%that%as%an%employment%opportunity.%But%then%you%gotta%get%it%so%they%
are%properly%trained%and%educated%to%take%advantage%of%that,%cause%you%right,%80,000%jobs.%And%
it's%not%gonna%help%people%from%Philly.%
TYRON%ALI:%And%see%if%you%had%a%non(profit%organization%that%gives%these%folks%transportation,%
right?%
RON%WATERS:%Right.%
TYRON%ALI:%To%the%work%site,%from%the%work%site.%I'm%not%speaking%about%Marcellus%Shale,%I'm%
just%speaking%about%in%general,%transportation%is%going%to%be%key%and%you%know%there's%going%to%
be%money%in%that%department.%
RON%WATERS:%Right%
TYRON%ALI:%You%know.%Beyond%that,%education%is%always%interesting.%
RON%WATERS:%Right%
TYRON%ALI:%And%then%you've%got%education%and%awareness%about%the%pros%and%cons%of%hydro%
fracking.%
RON%WATERS:%OK.%
TYRON%ALI:%There%are%a%number%of%ways,%I%mean,%at%the%end%of%the%day%it's%whether%or%not%we%
have%the%support,%your%support,%needed%to%put%together%the%non(profit%and%then,%figure%out,%you%
know,%how%we%would%fund%it.%But%how%we%would%fund%it%is%not%as%important%as%whether%or%not%
you%would%support%it.%Especially%for%people%in%your%area.%
RON%WATERS:%Well,%why%couldn't%the%funding%come%from%Marcellus%Shale?%
TYRON%ALI:%Funding%can%come%from%wherever,%does%it%matter?%
RON%WATERS:%No,%Im%just%saying,%one%of%my%arguments%is%that%there%are%environmental%issues%
with%this,%with%this%project%that%Marcellus%Shale%should%be%required%to%pay%for.%%
TYRON%ALI:%I%agree%with%you.%I'm%gonna%show%you%something.%We've%got%right%now,%on%the%table,%
a%couple%of%ideas%on%how%we%might%be%able%to%fund,%finance%and%eventually%grow%a%very,%very%
unique%type%of%non(profit.%Cause%you%can,%you%can%bring%all%of%the%resources%that%you%want,%at%
the%end%of%the%day%if%you%can't%bring%the%people%together%to%make%it%work,%than%it%wont%make%
any%sense.%(Gives%RW%materials?)%
RON%WATERS:%(([inaudible]%
[32:40]%%
TYRON%ALI:%I%actually%left%it%in%my%office,%but%basically,%what%it%is%is%this:%it's%looking%at%three%
different%types%of%outcomes(%one%is%the%education%situation,%one%that%would%help%folks%
10%
%
understand%what%other%kinds%of%opportunities%are%available,%and%then%three,%an%actual%
scholarship%fund.%
RON%WATERS:%Right.%
RON%WATERS:%Right%
TYRON%ALI:%And%I%think%if%we%can%get%the%scholarship%portion%of%this%figured%out,%I%think%it%would%
work%fairly%well.%What%do%you%think?%
RON%WATERS:%Yea,%I%think%it%all%looks%good%
TYRON%ALI:%Do%you%have%any%scholarship%deal,%any%scholarship%requirements%now?%
RON%WATERS:%Well%the%Black%Caucus%is%doing%a%scholarship%thing,%we%did%one%last%year.%We're%
doing%a%separate%one%this%year.%People%gonna%respond%a%lot%better%than%they%did%last%year.%
TYRON%ALI:%How%much%money%do%you%guys%typically%raise?%
[33:35]%
RON%WATERS:%Actually,%ah,%actually%we%gave%out,%10,%well%actually%it%ended%up%being%9%because%
one%person%didn't%comply%with%all%the%rules,%but%9%scholarships%of%$2500%apiece.%
TYRON%ALI:%Nine%scholarships%for%how%much?%
RON%WATERS:%$2500%apiece.%This%year%we're%only%doing%$1000%a%piece%because%$2500...%
TYRON%ALI:%And%it's%nine%scholarships?%
RON%WATERS:%Well,%10.%
TYRON%ALI:%So%$10,000?%
RON%WATERS:%But%last%year%it%was%supposed%to%have%been%$25,000,%but%what%happened%was%one%
of%our%students%didn't%comply%with%our%rules%so%they...%
TYRON%ALI:%Who%controls%that%non(profit?%
RON%WATERS:%This%was%ah,%this%was,%theres,%we%have%a%foundation,%but%I%call%it%a%foundation%
because%it%has%money%in%it.%We%used%the%money%that%was%in%it,%we%let%it%sit%in%it%for%about%7(8%
years,%and%um%it%was%$37,000%sitting%there.%And%the%treasurer%was%investing%it.%But%I%discovered%
the%money%was%there,%invested%in%CDs%and%stuff.%I%said,%we%didn't%give%you%that%money%to%sit%
there,%we%gave%you%that%money%to%use.%So%we%used%it%for%the%scholarships.%Usually%we%going%to%
do%$1000%(([inaudible]((%We%not%gonna%follow%the%foundation.%But%the%foundation,%we%finally%put%
together%a%board%of%members%for%the%foundation.%The%foundation%was%pretty%much%a%flunk.%And%
we%got%a%great%group%of%reps,%great%group%of%people%together,%Stanley%Prodder%(phonetic),%Cory%
11%
%
Coleman,%Sanchez.%We%got%a%great%group%of%four%complementary%board%members.%And%we%
decided%the%board%to%do%the%fundraiser%for%that%rather%than%the%black%caucus%so%that%could%do%
something.%That's%it%though.%And%they%agreed%to%do%it.%So%we%got%some%people%committed%to%
raising%money%for%them.%
[35:24]%
TYRON%ALI:%And%you're%creating%a%village.%What%if%we%partnered%up%creating%a%village%with%the%
group%that%donates%the%scholarship?%Does%that%work?%
RON%WATERS:%Yea,%create%a%village%that%is%a%whole%complement,%including%education.%
TYRON%ALI:%You're%in%control%of%that%thing,%right?%
RON%WATERS:%What?%
TYRON%ALI:%You're%in%control%of%that?%
RON%WATERS:%Yes.%It's%all,%it's%dealing%with,%its%dealing%with%education,%public%safety,%
neighborhood%beautification,%wealth%development%and%health.%Those%are%the%projects%I'm%in%
control%of.%
TYRON%ALI:%And%the%people%who%receive%these%scholarships?%Are%they%all%from%your%community?%
From%your?%
RON%WATERS:%No%
TYRON%ALI:%Where%are%they%from?%
RON%WATERS:%The%state.%
TYRON%ALI:%Oh%the%state.%
RON%WATERS:%People%who%qualify%to%get%them,%we%do%it%through%a%group%called%Scholarship%
America.%Percy%is%the%one%that%told%it%to%me,%Percy%was%running%it%last%year.%Percy%told%me%about%
the%group.%And%I%like%it%because%it%removes%us%from%being%in%the%selection%process.%We%have%a%
target%group%we%go%after,%group%within%cities%and%counties%that%have%large%minority%populations,%
and%we%give%the%students,%you%know,%standards%of%to%qualify%for,%and,%but%I%like%it%when%they%do%
it,%it%removes%us%from%it.%You%know,%I%don't%want%us%to%look%like%we%picked%all%the%people,%it%just%
removes%any%cloud%of%suspicion.%
TYRON%ALI:%%But%the%thing%is,%probably%in%your%neighborhood,%I%could%see%that%there's%probably%a%
greater%need%than%say%in%another%district.%%
RON%WATERS:%There%is.%
TYRON%ALI:%Because%the%high%school%dropout%rate%where%you%are%is%incredible.%
12%
%
RON%WATERS:%Well%we%encourage%them%to%make%sure%that%they%try%and%get%as%many%
Philadelphians%as%they%can.%I%assign%all%the%black%caucus%members%to%try%to%encourage%people%in%
school%districts%in%their%areas%to%apply%to%it.%That's%what%we%really%do.%Take%advantage%of%it,%get%
the%application%in,%meet%up%to%the%guidelines(which%is%only%writing%an%essay(%and%have%a%certain%
GPA%score.%
TYRON%ALI:%This%sounds%like%this%is%something%very%close%to%your%heart.%If%we%could%help%out,%how%
much,%how,%well(how%can%we%help?%
RON%WATERS:%Well,%you%know,%were%looking%for%sponsors.%%Well,%you%know,%we%send%out%letter%
to%sponsors.%Last%year%we%had%like%a,%like%I%said,%a%Percy%and%who%else%gave%us,%a%few%people%did.%
Crown%Cork%&%Seal%reached%out.%Who%else?%PECO.%Um%I%can't%remember%what%they%did.%But%we%
reached%out%to%all%the%groups%that%had,%not%non(profits%but%who%give%to%non(profits.%
TYRON%ALI:%Do%you%think%that%the%non(profit,%if%we%could%do%something%with%the%non(profits,%do%
you%think%it's%easier%than%the%parking%authority?%For%you%to%be%able%to%sort%of%coordinate%for%us?%
RON%WATERS:%Ah,%well%why%not%both?%You%know?%I%mean%if%that%is...%
TYRON%ALI:%Now%you're%talking.%
RON%WATERS:%(laughs)%You%know,%I%think%I%know%Vince,%you%know%what%I%mean?%
TYRON%ALI:%Can%you%help%us%get%a%contract?%
RON%WATERS:%With%him?%
TYRON%ALI:%Yes.%
RON%WATERS:%Oh,%I%don't%know.%
TYRON%ALI:%Ok.%
RON%WATERS:%I%don't%know.%I%can't%promise%you%that%because%this%guy%is%um,%I'm%not%saying%the%
answer%is%no%but%I%don't%make%no%promises%that...%
TYRON%ALI:%No,%no,%no%I%understand.%
RON%WATERS:%You%know...%
TYRON%ALI:%And%I%appreciate%it.%Can%you%make%a%half%a%promise?%
RON%WATERS:%(laughs)%How%old%do%you%think%I%am,%man?%This%is,%I%mean%the%things%that%I've%
done...%
TYRON%ALI:%All%these,%all,%you%know%at%the%end%of%the%day,%we%know%that%we%need%to%give%back.%
We%understand%that.%
RON%WATERS:%Yea%
13%
%
TYRON%ALI:%Because%we're%the%ones%who%are%making%decisions,%and%at%the%same%time,%making%
money.%%
RON%WATERS:%See,%now%that,%they%gave,%the%parking%authority%gave,%they%give%that...%
TYRON%ALI:%This%is%uh,%this%is%ah%some%of%the,%some%of%the%information%that's%been%forwarded%to%
me%so%far%(([inaudible]((%you%know?%And%if%we%can%figure%out%a%way%to%combine%some%money%
from%one%side%over%here,%right?%Some%money%from%over%here.%
RON%WATERS:%Right%
TYRON%ALI:%And%put%it%into%a%non(profit%over%here,%to%me%that%makes%the%most%amount%of%sense.%
You%know?%(To%server:%Can%we%have%two%menus?)%%
FEMALE%SERVER:%We're%only%doing%the%buffet%tonight%
RW/TYRON%ALI:%Ohhhhhhh%
RON%WATERS:%That's%not%right.%That%is%not%right.%
TYRON%ALI:%Im%at%IHOP?%
RON%WATERS:%No%wonder%that,%no%wonder%I%dont%see%nobody%getting%up%walking%through%that%
door.%They%got%the%greatest%crab,%that%crab%cake%last%week%was%delicious.%
FEMALE%SERVER:%Oh%yea.%Well%we're%not%doing%the%menu,%if%I%could%offer%it%to%you,%I%would.%But%I%
can't.%
RON%WATERS:%No,%no.%You%can't%control%that.%No%problem%
TYRON%ALI:%I%had%breakfast%here%this%morning,%too.%
TYRON%ALI:%Yep.%
RON%WATERS:%Ok.%I%was%wondering%why%I%see%those%tables%that%are%in%front%of%you%eating.%%
[40:33]%
RON%WATERS:%This%is%a%hot,%this%is%hot%that%Marcellus%Shale%thing.%
TYRON%ALI:%Well,%um%we%have%some%meetings%lined%up%with%folks,%who%are,%couple%of%folks%who%
are,%let's%just%say%they're%point%people.%
RON%WATERS:%Ok.%
TYRON%ALI:%You%know%what%I%mean?%
RON%WATERS:%Ok.%
14%
%
TYRON%ALI:%And%for%now,%it's%like,%ok%so%we've%got%a%couple%of%people%here,%right?%I'm%still%looking%
for%somebody%here.%And%I%don't,%you%know,%I%don't%know%enough%about%this,%I%know%what's%
wrong.%You%know,%I%know%that%there's%almost%2million%dollars%out%there.%%I%know%that%they%have%2%
collection%agencies,%I%don't%really%know%what%their%results%are%because%they're%privately%owned%
companies.%They%don't%need%to%publish%their%earnings...%
RON%WATERS:%No?%
TYRON%ALI:%Or%their%results.%No.%They%don't%need%to.%So%that%was%the%biggest%impediment%I%had%((%
RON%WATERS:%Ok.%
TYRON%ALI:%((%to%like%putting%something%together%that%would%look%like%a%proposal.%
RON%WATERS:%Ok.%
TYRON%ALI:%Instead,%I%had%to%go%to%their%financial%statements%to%figure%out%what%was%actually%
lost,%what%was%collected,%what%is%uncollected,%and%then%out%of%that,%you%know,%%how%do%much%do%
they%anticipate%collecting?%
RON%WATERS:%Oh.%
TYRON%ALI:%It's%a%lot%of%headache%but%I%mean,%at%the%end%of%the%day,%we%will%do%the%work,%I%will%do%
the%work%if%I%think%it's%doing%what%we%want%it%to%do.%We%always%want%to%be%in%a%position%to%say,%
look%at%how%much%money%we%gave%back.%%
RON%WATERS:%Right.%
TYRON%ALI:%Yes,%we%made%a%lot%of%money,%but%look%at%how%much%money%we%gave%back.%You%
know?%
RON%WATERS:%So%how's%things%going%with%the%state%store%stuff?%Cause%that%seems%to%be%your%
thing%too...%
TYRON%ALI:%We've%got%some%real%work%ahead%of%us.%
RON%WATERS:%You%think%so?%
TYRON%ALI:%I%do,%because...%
RON%WATERS:%Because%of%the%Senate?%
TYRON%ALI:%Yes.%Um,%because%your%um%friend.%
RON%WATERS:%Which%one?%
TYRON%ALI:%(([inaudible]((%
RON%WATERS:%Oh,%ok.%What's%up%with%him?%
15%
%
TYRON%ALI:%He's%gonna%um,%well%let's%just%say%that%he%is%anxiously%awaiting%to%see%how%he%could%
um%take%care%of%Tony.%
RON%WATERS:%Take%what?%
TYRON%ALI:%Take%care%of%Tony.%
RON%WATERS:%Oh!%He%always%looking%out%for%that!%
TYRON%ALI:%Like%I've%noticed.%
RON%WATERS:%(laughing)%That's%all%he%does%man,%is%it%(???)%man.%
TYRON%ALI:%(sighs)%
RON%WATERS:%%It%is%what%it%is.%
[42:54]%
TYRON%ALI:%At%the%end%of%the%day,%you%know,%like%I%said%to%you,%I'm%taking%it%nice%and%slow%
because%I%know%it's%not%going%to%come%around%for%a%while.%In%terms%of%the%privatization,%we%went%
through%what%could%be%possible:%brand%awareness,%store%expansion,%smaller%breweries%actually%
coming%into%that%market%place.%All%of%those%things%will%never%go%anywhere%until%and%unless%they%
get%the%issues%with%Local%1776%under%control.%%
RON%WATERS:%Oh%
TYRON%ALI:%Do%you%follow%what%I'm%what%saying?%So%the%Shale%issue%is%really%the%important%
piece,%that%comes%second.%The%other%piece%that%probably%between%the%two%of%those,%like%one%
and%a%half,%is%the%non(profits.%How%do%we%continue%to%fund%some%of%the%non(profits%search%and%
assist,%when%we%know%full%well%there's%no%sacred%cow%in%the%pasture,%everything's%going%to%get%
cut.%You%know?%
RON%WATERS:%They%gonna%get%cut%bad.%The%non(profits.%
TYRON%ALI:%Do%you%give%scholarships%to%community%college%at%all?%
RON%WATERS:%No.%Do%I%give%em?%
TYRON%ALI:%Yea.%
RON%WATERS:%No,%I%can%try%to%get%some%from%them.%Kids%that%we%gave%scholarships%to,%none%of%
them%picked%community%college%as%their%school.%Last,%I%mean%we%did%last%year%they%picked.%We%
changed%it%a%little%bit%this%year%to%say%that%every%scholarship%participant%has%to%plan%on%going%to%a%
school%in%the%state.%We%didn't%do%that%last,%we%were%over(excited%on%our%part,%we%didn't%think%
about%it.%But%I%think%two%out%of%nine%went%to%schools%outside%of%the%state,%University%of%Sciences.%%
TYRON%ALI:%Maybe%we%can%do%something%about%that.%
16%
%
[44:36]%
RON%WATERS:%Well%we%changing%it%this%year,%we%told%them:%You%have%to%go%to%a%school%in%this%
state.%Um,%let's%get%something%to%eat%man,%I'm%hungry.%I%aint%eat%nothing%since%
TYRON%ALI:%Sure.%I%hear%ya.%
RON%WATERS:%You%musta%ate%already.%%
TYRON%ALI:%I%ate%twice.%
RON%WATERS:%Since%you%here?%
TYRON%ALI:%No.%You're%actually%dinner%number%two%
RON%WATERS:%Ohhh%(laughing).%Well%I'm%gonna%get%something%now.%
TYRON%ALI:%Sure.%
(RW%goes%to%buffet)%
[51:15]%
TYRON%ALI:%I%went%to%this%place%called%stocks%on%2nd.%%
RON%WATERS:%Yea,%I%ate%there%before%
TYRON%ALI:%I%like%that%place.%
RON%WATERS:%Yea,%that%place%is%cool.%They%got%the%military%thing%on%the%same%block%called%the%
Second%Level%or%something%like%that.%It's%a%really%nice%place.%It's%not%like%a%restaurant,%it's%like%a%
really%nice%bar.%
TYRON%ALI:%I,%I%just,%it's%amazing%to%me%like%um%how%different%some%of%the,%some%of%the%senators%
are%from%Philadelphia.%
RON%WATERS:%Oh%they're%very%different%
TYRON%ALI:%In%terms%of%their%ability%to%just%connect%with%you.%You%know?%Not,%just,%just%talk%to%
you%like,%like%they're%really%interested%in%speaking%with%you.%
RON%WATERS:%Man.%You%don't%know%what%happens%to%people%when%they%get%to%the%Senate.%
Friends%in%the%House,%then%no%idea%what%happens%to%them.%You%know%we%worked%with%some%of%
them%when%they%was%in%the%House.%They%go%there%and%then%they%pretend%like%you%work%for%
them.%Im%tellin%you,%something%about%that%name%Senator.%It's%like%they%ah,%that's%why%nothing%
gets%done.%They%done%stopped%a%lot%of%stuff%that%we%had%done.%Isn't%there%uh%what%the%guys%
name,%the%Republican%is.%The%real%problem%comes,%got%defeated,%I%forget%him%name.Perzel.%
People%talked%about%um,%someone%to%get%rid%of%him.%Heres%the%thing,%we%could%do%the%deal,%but%
we%cant%sit%down%and%work%it%out.%(([inaudible]%
17%
%
TYRON%ALI:%I%don't%know%how%you%combat%that%but%I%think%you%start%by%doing%something%small.%
RON%WATERS:%Like%what?%
TYRON%ALI:%I%don't%know.%Clean%up%the%park.%Take%trash%off%the%streets.%Organize%a%campaign%for%
needle%exchanges.%You%know%there%are,%you%know%you%do%educational%workshops%on%almost%
anything%you%can%think%about.%
RON%WATERS:%Now%that's,%that's%where%it's%needed.%
TYRON%ALI:%That's%why%the%non(profits%are%so%important.%
RON%WATERS:%That's%needed.%Educational%workshops.%
[54:14]%
TYRON%ALI:%What%was%your%mission%behind%creating%a%village?%What%does%that%do?%
RON%WATERS:%It%was%um,%the%view%of%support%was,%what%really%got%me%thinking%about%it%was%I%
started%noticing%so%many%churches%had%same%program.%Mostly%substance%abuse%or%like%after(
school,%you%know%they%had%the%same%stuff.%And%there%was%a%dude%at%DBA%who%rolled%up%when%
they%had%had%like%a%clean%parenting%program%or,%none%of%them%really%had%stuff%like%wealth%
development,%how%to,%you%know,%show%how%the%people%learn%how%to%create%their%own%wealth,%
how%to%save,%how%to%manage%your%business.%And%Ive%been%noticing%that,%the%ones%who%have%
stuff,%most%of%them%dont%even%know%about%it.%So%what%would%a%nickel%look%like?%So%most%of%the,%
most%of%what%I%believe%to%be%part%of%the%network%should%improve%aides%that%could%help%to%
establish%and%build%a%foundation%for%small%community%growth.%Out%of%that,%I%started%thinking%
about%what,%you%know,%the%network%would%look%like,%and%thats%when%I%always%remember%people%
say,%(([inaudible]((%They%dont%hear%that.%But%nobody%ever%says,%well%lets%create%a%village%here.%
Lets%find%the%votes,%whoever%loses,%you%know,%so%I%came%up%with%the%concept%called%creating%a%
village,%so%there%would%be,%creating%it%would%be%action%roles,%concrete,%consciously%taking%place.%
You%know,%we%dont%have%a%village,%but%even%if%you%start%seeing%it,%dont%stop.%%Because%its%
constantly%growing.%So%its%all%about%creating,%creating,%creating.%%So%thats%all%that.%And%as%I%said,%
I%thought%through,%I%thought%one%of%the%main%things%that%we%needed%if%it%were%to%be%successful,%
education%is%everything,%its%a%crossover%to%voter%education,%voter%registration,%um%block%of%
votes,%get%things%done,%how%to%establish%an%agenda.%What%would%they%want?%What%would%be%the%
thing%that%would%um,%did%the%um%voting%block%meeting,%wealth%development,%something%our%
communities%always%done%in%the%past,%other%people%have.%Cause%we%don't%manage%our%money%
properly.%We%are%just%the%farmers,%not%investors.%You%know,%you%know,%help%major%problems%in%
our%neighborhood.%I%wanna%know%about%the%Indians%man,%how%is%that?%Um%the%Native%
Americans.%
TYRON%ALI:%I%can%speak%to%you%for%the%Indian%folks%from%India.%They%don't%really%care%about%
wealth%development.%All%they%care%about%is%wealth%preservation.%
RON%WATERS:%Right.%
18%
%
[57:37]%
TYRON%ALI:%They%just%don't%want%anybody%taking%their%money,%thats%about%it.%
RON%WATERS:%Yea.%
TYRON%ALI:%And%in%their%economy,%$1%circulates%many%more%times%than%in...%
RON%WATERS:%The%black%community%
TYRON%ALI:%a%lot%of%other%communities.%
RON%WATERS:%A%lot%of%Blacks.%Blacks%is%a%one(way%ticket.%It's%going%right%out,%we%don't%get%it.%
That's%what%I%mean%about%the%brother's%running%it:%how%do%we%recirculate%it?%How%do%we%keep%in%
so%it%passes%through%more%and%more%hands%in%the%neighborhood?%%
TYRON%ALI:%So%if%we,%if%we%look%at%a%non(profit%for%education,%right?%
RON%WATERS:%Yea%
TYRON%ALI:%Or%a%non(profit%for,%I%don't%want%to%call%it%wealth(building%or%wealth%preservation,%
but%really%something%that%reaches%out%and%speaks%to%the%importance%of%saving.%I%think%that%if%you%
%if%you%(%remember,%the%example%you%know,%he%who%saves%has,%you%know.%Give%some%thought.%I%
mean,%Ron%look,%give%some%serious%thought%to%what%kind%of%non(profit%organization%would%make%
sense%in%your%community.%This%is%not%for%the%whole%of%Pennsylvania,%just%your%community,%you%
know?%Would%it%be%scholarships?%Would%it%be%doing%Driver's%Ed,%you%know?%Doing%educational%
workshops%for%childcare%aids%at%daycare%centers?%Would%it%be%teaching%folks%how%to%plant%a%
garden?%You%know?%Small%things%that%are,%that%don't%require%a%lot%of%resources,%and%some%things%
that%you%can%get%the%complete%credit%for.%Cause%you're%going%to%be%the%person%spear(heading%the%
effort.%
RON%WATERS:%Well%I%have%another%non(profit%that,%it's%not%mine,%but%I%helped%create%it,%but%it's%
all%fresh%start,%first%start,%fresh%start.%They%do%that%program%that%deals%with%education%that%is%for%
young%people.%
TYRON%ALI:%What%age?%
RON%WATERS:%Its%for%teenagers.%
TYRON%ALI:%And%how%does%that%benefit%them?%What%does%it%do?%
RON%WATERS:%They%give%everybody%in%school%that%are%failing,%not%doing%well,%truant%and%
delinquent,%to%turn%them%around.%(([inaudible]((%a%couple%kids,%but%there's%1500%kids%in%it.%
TYRON%ALI:%1500?%
RON%WATERS:%Yea%
TYRON%ALI:%Really?%This%is%in%Pennsylvania?%
19%
%
RON%WATERS:%It's%in%Delaware%County.%
TYRON%ALI:%Delaware%County?%
RON%WATERS:%The%DA's%in%Delaware%county,%well%it%really%wasn't%a%DA%who%started%it,%it%was%
agent%part%of%our%victims%unit,%but%the%agents%who%counseled%people%were%not%helpful,%and%
ended%up%that%the%Darby%counsel%people%were%extremely%helpful.%Gave%them%a%site%so%then%they%
could%stay,%rent(free%and%now%the%point%are%to%get%them%to%adjudicate%kids%in%the%program%rather%
than%send%them%away%to%prison.%It's%really%successful.%I'm%really%proud%of%that%one.%
TYRON%ALI:%Who%else%did%this%with%you?%
RON%WATERS:%A%lady%by%the%name%of%Leslie%Magert%(phonetic).%
TYRON%ALI:%She's%a%school%teacher?%
RON%WATERS:%No.%
TYRON%ALI:%What%is%she?%
RON%WATERS:%She's%just%one%of%those%concerned%parents%who%had%children%in%the%school,%in%the%
(?)%school%district%that%was%a%struggle,%who%wrote%in%to%find%out%about%something%that%had%to%do%
with%her%son.%She%wrote%there%and%she%went%there%and%found%out%that%her%son%was%not%there.%He%
had%completely%up%and%(after%research%on%it)%found%out%that%not%only%was%it%not%just%her%son,%but%
somebody%else's%son,%it%was%a%bunch%of%kids%that%had%issues%that%kept%them%from%going%to%
school,%having%them%in%trouble%with%the%law.%And%she%came%to%me%and%asked%me%if%I%would%help%
them%develop%a%program%that%would%help%them%reach%the%kids%and%put%them%back%on%track.%%
[1:01:30]%
TYRON%ALI:%And%issues%was%like%drug,%I%guess?%
RON%WATERS:%No,%it%wasn't%drugs.%
TYRON%ALI:%No?%
RON%WATERS:%I%mean%drugs%would%not%(([inaudible]((%but%so%far,%so%they%have%no%hope,%no%
desire%to%be%successful.%Like%her%son.%It%started%with%just%her%son.%Then%a%couple%other%kids.%Like%I%
said,%then%it%grew.%It%grew.%And%um,%I%just%gave%them%money.%
TYRON%ALI:%What%kind%of%resources%are%you%talking%about?%%
RON%WATERS:%I%just%gave%them%grant%money.%That's%all%they%came%to%me%for.%
TYRON%ALI:%A%lot?%Or%something%small?%
RON%WATERS:%No.%I%gave%her%appropriate%at%the%time,%I%guess%$70($75,000%of%a%grant.%
TYRON%ALI:%All%together,%right?%
20%
%
RON%WATERS:%Yea%
TYRON%ALI:%But%that's%a%small%amount%of%money.%That's%not%a%lot.%
RON%WATERS:%It%is.%It%is.%But%then%I%got%other%people%to%give%her%money.%Like%Verizon.%Other%
people.%Because%they%had%grant%programs%too.%But%then%she%started%charging%kids,%not%kids,%the%
parents,%a%cost%associated%with%it,%but%it%was%minimal.%Maybe%like%$15.%Cause%they%had%a%summer%
camp%program%too.%
TYRON%ALI:%But%how%could%you,%could%you%still%garner%support%for%that%kind%of%thing%in%the%
House?%%
RON%WATERS:%%Yeah.%
TYRON%ALI:%If%it%wasn't%her,%but%something%similar%to%that?%
RON%WATERS:%Yea.%
TYRON%ALI:%Yea?%
RON%WATERS:%Because%there's%more%of%that%needed.%%
[1:02:55]%
TYRON%ALI:%But%this%is%when%Dwight%was%head%of%Appropriation,%now%it's%somebody%else%
RON%WATERS:%Right.%Well%hes%close%with%her.%That's%why%I%'m%on%the%probation,%I'm%real%friendly%
with%them.%
TYRON%ALI:%Ok.%
RON%WATERS:%Yea.%So%I%wouldn't%worry%about%it.%Dwight%was%head%of%Appropriations,%now%its%is%
Cynthia.%%
TYRON%ALI:%Ok.%
RON%WATERS:%Dwight,%I%mean%Dwight%knew%about%the%program%because%he%supported%it%
because%he's%about%education%too.%%
TYRON%ALI:%Right.%
RON%WATERS:%I%knew%that%but%do%you,%and%you%talking%about%non(profit%things%that%make%a%
difference%in%the%community,%this%is%one%that's%very%very%successful,%I'm%very%proud%of%it.%
TYRON%ALI:%How%long's%the%program%been%around?%
RON%WATERS:%About%four%years,%maybe%
TYRON%ALI:%Oh%it's%new.%
RON%WATERS:%Mm%Hmm.%
21%
%
TYRON%ALI:%How%many%folks%would%you%say%you%could%get%to%support%it?%
RON%WATERS:%In%the%House?%
TYRON%ALI:%Yea%
RON%WATERS:%Right%now,%we%had%Donatucci,%but%he%died.%%And%Anthony%Williams.%So%we%had%
one%in%the%House,%one%of%them,%one%in%the%House%and%him%in%the%Senate.%
[1:03:59]%
TYRON%ALI:%And%you%think%you%could%get%Anthony%to%support%this%again?%
RON%WATERS:%He%already%is.%He's%still%doing,%they%got%a%grant%right%now%they%waiting%to%get,%they%
got%some%money%from%the%one%of%the%departments,%Pennsylvania%Commission%on%Crime%and%
Delinquency,%has%grants%for%safety,%public%safety%programs.%And%they%available%to%programs%like%
this%too.%
TYRON%ALI:%See%that%the%interesting%thing%that%Anthony%does%eventually%what%he%does%is%he%
steals%all%of%the%thunder.%
RON%WATERS:%All%of%it.%Any%credit.%
TYRON%ALI:%He%won't%leave%you%with%anything.%
RON%WATERS:%Nothing.%
TYRON%ALI:%So%if%this%were%something%that%you%were%going%to%do%it,%you'd%have%to%sort%of%have%to,%
have%to%do%it%on%the%strength%that%you're%going%to%be%able%to%bring%it%home.%%You%know?%
RON%WATERS:%The%people%who%run%it,%Leslie,%always%gives%me%credit%for%it.%Because%it%would%
have%never%got%started%if%it%wasn't%for%me.%He%didn't%even%pay%any%attention%to%it.%He%only%got%on%
board%when%it%got%to%be%successful,%started%getting%record%this,%starting%seeing%being%interviewed%
by%news%people,%them%showing%up,%people%like%Crosby,%Byron%Scott,%and%the%lady,%um%started%
coming%out%and%doing%interviews%on%the%program%because%it%became%totally,%it%grew%so%quickly.%
And%once%he%started%noticing%all%the%attention%it%was%getting,%he%was%like%whoa,%I%better%start%
finding%some%way%to%help%it%out%too.%
TYRON%ALI:%See,%the%thing%about%it%is%this,%let's%say%that%we%needed%his%help%right,%we%would%turn%
that%program%down%flat.%Let%me%tell%you%why.%%If%we're%helping,%I%mean%we%expect%to%be%helped.%
RON%WATERS:%Yea.%
TYRON%ALI:%I%mean%that's%just%the%normal%course%of%things.%%
RON%WATERS:%Right.%
TYRON%ALI:%And%I%don't%think%that%he%would%be%selfless%enough%to%look%at%that.%That's%why%I%go%
back%to,%if%you%and%I%can%come%up%with%a%project%that%makes%sense,%we%both%fund%it.%You%know%
22%
%
but,%you%know,%Ron%look,%I'm%not%a%politician,%ok%I%lobby%for%a%living,%that's%what%I%do.%You%know?%
You%have%the%hand%that%reaches%where%we%need%it%to%reach.%I%can%only%bring%it%so%far,%it%doesn't%
matter.%And%that's%the%truth.%That's%true%of%anybody%that%does%governmental%relations.%You%can%
only%take%it%so%far.%You%really%need%someone%to%recognize%the%fact%that%hey,%these%people%are%
trying%to%do%something%and%maybe%I%can%help%them.%You%know?%
RON%WATERS:%Right.%I%mean%programs,%our%community%has%a%need%for%programs.%I%don't%want%to%
do%another%drug/alcohol%abuse%program.%I%want%to%do%um,%there's%another%group%of%people%in%
our%community%that%need%help%and%nobody%can%help%them.%Going%back%to%expenses,%people%
come%up%all%over%parts%that%need%to%be%mentored.%There's%nobody%mentoring%to%help%these%
people%stay%on%track,%not%get%mixed%up,%go,%get%back%with%their%families,%raise%their%children,%get%
a%job%and%become%a%law(abiding%citizen.%
TYRON%ALI:%But%then%how%do%you%get%them%to%that%place?%I%mean%you%would%have%to%have%a%
number%of%different%relationships%in%place.%
RON%WATERS:%That's%how%we'd%do%it.%
TYRON%ALI:%You'd%need%someone%from%Urban%Affairs.%
RON%WATERS:%Who?%
TYRON%ALI:%You%(%Urban%Affairs,%to%champion%your%cause.%You'd%need%somebody%on%
Appropriation.%You'd%need%somebody%on%Appropriation%in%the%Senate.%You'd%need%somebody%
that's%on%the%Committee%for%Youth%and%Aging.%You'd%need%somebody%on%Consumer%Affairs.%I%
mean%it%would%take%you((%
RON%WATERS:%But%we%got%all%of%that.%Consumer%Affairs,%Bill%Preston%already%said%we%gotta%do%
something%about%recidivism.%That's%what%he%talk%about..%
TYRON%ALI:%What%do%you%think%about%Preston?%
RON%WATERS:%Children%and%Youth...he's%ok.%I%mean%you%gotta%give%him%directions,%you%can't%let%
him%go%on%his%own%because%he's%got%his%own%ego.%So%you%gotta%be%able%to%handle%issues%that%he's%
not%in%control%of%that%if%he%controls%it%then%it%don't%know%where%it's%gonna%go.%Probably%((
[inaudible]((%but%the%issue%((%
FEMALE%SERVER:%Do%you%want%another%Riesling?%
RON%WATERS:%No%I%don't.%
FEMALE%SERVER:%Another%Pellegrino?%
RON%WATERS:%Yes.%
TYRON%ALI:%Darling,%can%I%have%a%cup%of%coffee?%
FEMALE%SERVER:%Absolutely.%Would%you%like%cream%as%well?%
23%
%
TYRON%ALI:%Do%you%have%espresso?%
TYRON%ALI:%Cappuccino?%
TYRON%ALI:%Cappuccino.%
FEMALE%SERVER:%Coffee.%Cappuccino.%%
TYRON%ALI:%You%want%dessert?%
RON%WATERS:%No.%
TYRON%ALI:%Ok.%
1:08:47%
RON%WATERS:%But%um%there's%a%group%of%people%out%there%right%now%that%is%like%a%kind%of%a%
mentoring%group%that%will%help%a%group%out%of%that%could%be%served,%that%could%almost%serve%as%a%
maximum%hour%where%(([inaudible]((%I%think%that,%you%know%I'm%involved%with%another%group%of%
people,%I'm%involved%in%so%many%groups.%They%came%to%me%like%doing%a%documentary%on%what's%
wrong%with%the%criminal%justice%system.%If%it's%gonna%be%permitted,%they're%trying%to%find%a%way%of%
presenting%it%that's%different%than%any%other%way%that%they've%presented%so%far,%and%they%came%
to%me,%Reverend%Wilson%Goode,%some%other%people%going%around%and%meet.%You%meet,%basically%
through%a%conference%call%with%the%other%people,%because%you%meet%here%with%the%local%people%
who%are%trying%to%show%what's%wrong%and%how%do%you%get%it%right.%One%of%the%problems%is%you%
talking%about%something%different,%I'm%already%connected%with%the%guys%who%are%in%talks%with%it,%
ok%because%we%have%programs%that%deal%convicts.%They%have%what%is%a%group%of%guys%that%who,%I%
know%who%call%me%their,%what%do%they%call,%it's%like%the%person%that's%in%charge.%%
TYRON%ALI:%(to%server)%Thank%you.%
RON%WATERS:%Um,%conductor.%
TYRON%ALI:%Mm%Hmm%
RON%WATERS:%Because%they%have,%they%have%an%internal%group%called%positive%peer%intervention.%
Where%you%actually%have%a%couple%different%volunteers%for%it.%We%had%the%program%start%on%the%
outside,%peer%intervention%program%starts%on%the%inside%which%makes%it%unique.%The%men%are%
conditioned%on%the%inside%to%be%prepared%on%what%they're%expected%to%do%on%the%outside.%
There's%no%other%program%that%does%that.%Even%the%Department%of%Corrections%don't%do%that.%
They%don't%prepare%people%who%are%coming%home,%they%just%tell%them%to%be%good.%They%don't%
get,%they%don't%get,%what%makes%this%unique%it's%not%done%by%the%Department%of%Corrections,%it's%
done%by%the%man%himself,%who%had%decided%that%we're%gonna,%we're%gonna%take%charge%of%our%
24%
%
life,%we're%going%to%prepare%men%to%go%home%to%our%own%network,%our%own%community%because%
we%understand%each%other,%we%trust%each%other.%We%don't%trust%the%other%people.%
TYRON%ALI:%So%if%we%set%up%a%non(profit%organization%to%look%at%the%kinds%of%resources%that%one%
needs%to%re(enter%society,%is%that%what%you're%talking%about?%
[1:11:37]%
RON%WATERS:%And%mentoring.%%Arts%and%Crafts.%Job%preparedness.%Rather%than%re(entry,%they%
should%call,%this%is%called,%this%goes%deeper%than%re(entry,%this%goes%deeper%than%re(integration.%
That%stuff%starts%on%the%outside.%We're%talking%about%preparing%men%who%have%(???)%and%are%still%
inside.%When%you%start%them%on%the%inside%and%prepare%them%for%the%outside%you%have%a%better%
chance%of%them%coming%out%and%not%having%unrealistic%expectations%and%if%they%don't%have%
unrealistic%expectations,%they%can%come%out%prepared%to%proceed.%
TYRON%ALI:%Tell%me%if%you,%if%it%were%up%to%you%if%you%could%make%a%wish%list%and%sort%of%make%it%
come%true,%what%would%be%on%that%list%to%make%this%work%for%you?%How%would%you%make%it%work?%
RON%WATERS:%It%would%be,%ok...%
TYRON%ALI:%Trying%to%help%you%here,%Ron%(laughs)%
RON%WATERS:%Ok,%it's%a%network.%It's%a%network%that%has%to%be%on%the%outside.%The%growth%of%the%
(([inaudible]((%is%uninspected%right%now,%because%the%person%has%people%look%down%on%them.%So%
maybe%you%have%to%have%people%who%are%committed%and%I%had%600%people%who%had%signed%a%
script%to%me,%saying%that%they,%these%are%people%low%on%jobs,%saying%that%they%are%to%live,%coming%
back%into%the%community,%that%law(abiding%citizens,%taking%care%of%their%family,%getting%a%job%
whatever%it%is,%taking%that%job,%no%matter%if%it's%minimum%wage,%with%a%plan%for%growing%and%
earning%their%trust%back%in%the%community.%My%philosophy%is%that%a%person%can't%pay%their%debt%
back%to%society%while%they're%incarcerated.%Them%are%some%of%the%misunderstandings%that%we%
have.%They%can't,%they're%serving%time.%When%they%come%out%there%they%pay%their%debt.%So%how%
do%we%get%people%prepared%to%come%back%out%and%how%do%we%get%the%community%to%accept%
them%as%someone%worthy%of%giving%them%a%second%chance%because%they%have%indeed%proven%
that%they%are%reformed.%I%have%600%people%that%sent%me%a%letter%as%part%of%this%group%saying%I'm%
committed%to%coming%out%as%being%a%law(abiding%citizen,%I'm%committed%to%getting%underneath%
your%umbrella%and%I'm%not%going%to%embarrass%this%organization.%Those%kind%of%things%are%great%
in%terms%of%how%do%we%bring%people%back%and%return%the%men%that%have%been%their%back%to%the%
wall.%Nothing%like%that%is%gonna%help.%Nothing%like%that%is%gonna%help.%Today,%you%know,%it's%a%
shame%but%it%is%what%it%is%and%if%we%can%do%that%we%can%start%shaping%the%law,%(([inaudible]((%the%
law%and%proving%that%that%there%is%such%a%thing%as%a%redeemed%person.%
[1:14:36]%
TYRON%ALI:%Alright.%For%me%to%make%this%something%sort%of%acceptable,%it%has%to%have%a%plan%for%
sustenance.%I'll%give%you%an%example.%You%need%specific%employers%in%the%neighborhood%that%will%
25%
%
hire%these%people.%You%need%banks%that%will%work%with%these%people.%You%need%to%have%a%
childcare%network.%You%need%to%have%a%GED%network.%And%then%you%need%to%figure%out%a%
continuing%education%program.%If%they're%pursuing%their%GED%to%get%into%a%university%or%a%trade%
school.%So,%you%said%you%had%600%people%write%you%this?%
RON%WATERS:%That's%right.%
TYRON%ALI:%Do%you%have%them?%Do%you%have%the%letters?%
RON%WATERS:%Yea.%
TYRON%ALI:%Now%if%we%put%together%a%non(profit%program,%specifically%on%that,%see%I'm,%that's%I'm%
trying%to%figure%out%what%the%cost(benefit%is.%Like,%if%I%pitch%that%to%our%clients,%how%do%we%
benefit?%
RON%WATERS:%First%of%all,%let%me%tell%you%what((%how%Detroit,%Michigan%did%it.%Michigan%has%cut%
down%on%their%prison%population%by%about%(([inaudible]((%What%they%did%is%they%continue%to%fund%
the%prison%system%at%the%same%fee,%while%prison%population%comes%down.%What%they%did%with%
the%excess%money%that%was%realized%was%they%allowed%non(profits%to%acquire%the%grants,%along%
with%being%able%to%run%a%program%that%would%help,%to%help%make%sure%that%these%men%coming%
out%and%the%women%coming%out%were%successful%with%programs%that%would%serve%them%so%they%
would%not%be,%not%recidivate.%So,%but%it%was%based%on%performance.%So%if%you%had%a%non(profit%
that%is%walking%with%these%men%when%they%come%out,%put%them%on%the%right%path%in%terms%of%
jobs,%life%skills,%and%make%sure%that%they%are%doing%what%they%should%be%doing%and%not%
recidivating,%that%kept%risk%compilations%down%so%there%was%no%increase%within%the%prison,%like%
before%in%Pennsylvania.%Theyre%preparing%for%a%prison%increase.%Rather%than%prepare%for%an%
increase,%why%dont%we%stabilize%it%and%allow%the%non(profit%to%benefit%from%it%and%it%was%good%
because%it%promoted,%cause%it%not%only%did%they%cut%down%on%the%prison%population,%public%
safety%increased.%It%was%a%model%that%they%have%that%could%be%used%all%over.%
TYRON%ALI:%Alright,%so%that%is%what%is%good%about%the%program.%The%folks%that%are%funding%the%
program,%what%do%we%get%out%of%it?%
RON%WATERS:%You%get%the%money%coming,%you%get%the%money%that%the%state%has.%Right%now%the%
state%has%over%a%billion%dollars%that%goes%to%law%enforcement.%Security%grows%because%they%
already%built%more%prisons,%security%grows.%Five%thousand,%another%40%million%dollars.%This%is%to%
add%to%the%2%billion%plus,%whatever%it%is.%Ok,%we%don't%want%to%build%more%prisons,%cause%that's%
what%they%gonna%do,%they%gonna%build%more.%We%don't%want%to%build%more%prisons.%What%we%say%
is%lets%stop%the%prison%growth,%let's%find%a%way%to%help%these%men.%This%is%what%I'm%doing,%this%is%
what%I'm%doing%now.%%(([inaudible]judiciary%(([inaudible]((%Let's%stop%the%prison%growth.%%
TYRON%ALI:%(([inaudible]((%
RON%WATERS:%Let's%do%something%different,%we%cant%keep%going%in%the%same%direction.%Let's%use%
the%model%of%Detroit.%Let's%get%the%funding%at%the%same%level%so%now%let's%work%on%rehabilitating%
26%
%
and%redefining%men%and%women%so%that%they%come%back%out.%The%non(profits%now%get%access%to%
this%money%because%as%the%prison%population%increases,%that%means%that%the%prison,%rather%than%
reverting%back%to%the%general%fund,%they%keep%it%at%the%same%level%but%in%order%to%maintain%and%
maybe%keep%them%out%of%trouble,%rather%than%%re(victimizing%new%people,%which%is%public%safety,%
we%mentor%them,%we%help%them%develop%and%we,%our%people%already%worked%with%a%guy%on%
Saturday.%I'm%always%working%with%people%about%getting%guys%jobs.%%
TYRON%ALI:%Is%this,%is%this%program%akin%to%like%the%Doe%fund?%
RON%WATERS:%The%who?%
TYRON%ALI:%The%Doe%Fund?%Or%Men%United?%
RON%WATERS:%For%Better%Philadelphia?%
TYRON%ALI:%Yes.%
RON%WATERS:%They%broke%up.%
TYRON%ALI:%I%know.%But%is%this%something%like%that?%
RON%WATERS:%Yea%
TYRON%ALI:%That%you%have%in%mind?%
RON%WATERS:%I%was%trying%to%meet%with%them.%I%got%out%of%it%when%the,%the%money%started%to%
come%in.%
TYRON%ALI:%Oh%ok%
RON%WATERS:%Because%there%was%arguments%between%people%Al%Calhoun%(phonetic)%these%guys,%
Ray%and%all%those%guys.%
TYRON%ALI:%Ray%Jones.%
RON%WATERS:%Yea,%they%started%arguing.%But%no,%but%Ray%wasn't%but%Al%was%on%the%same%page,%it%
was%other%guys%like%Mark%(([inaudible]((all%those%guys,%they%started%pressing%him%about%the%
money%and%I'm%like%you%know,%I%don't%need%to%be%in%this%shit%no%more.%I%helped%start%it,%back%in%
2002,%with%Police%Commissioner%Sylvester%Johnson%and%Ray,%Malik,%a%few%guys%started%it,%got%it%
up%and%running,%doing%some%things%and%um%(([inaudible]((%
TYRON%ALI:%I%don't%know%how%much%good%they%actually%did%though.%%
[1:20:16]%
RON%WATERS:%They,%their%problem%was%that%they%were%more%reactive%rather%than%preventative.%
They%would%go%out,%when%they%heard%about%the...nah%I%can't%say,%they%tried%to%do%some%
interaction,%going%out%on%on%the%street%corner%cause%I%was%out%with%them,%going%to%the%
basketball%courts,%going%to%the%corners%and%stop(and(go's,%those%were%the%guys.%It%could've%
27%
%
worked.%It%could've%worked,%they%had%to%change%it%from%being%reactionary.%You%can't%keep%
showing%up%where%crime%happens,%it%just%doesn't%(??)%you%have%to%figure%out%how%to%make%it%
stop.%
TYRON%ALI:%And%you%think%there's%a%good%pot%of%money%in%the%house%for%this?%Out%of%the%General%
Services%Fund?%
RON%WATERS:%Well,%you%have%to%follow%a%model%of%Detroit,%Michigan.%They%kept%the%funding%
level%the%same,%but%when%they%started%saving%$200%million%and%$300%million,%they%said%the%non(
profits%who%are%geared,%who%could%help%make%sure%that%the%prisoners%are%all%law(biding,%they%get%
that%money.%So%it%kept%down%on%their%cost%from%increasing,%to%stabilize%it,%and%in%return%it%
provided%a%safe%community.%
TYRON%ALI:%And%you%think%we%could%do%this?%
RON%WATERS:%Yea!%That's%my%goal.%And%I%talked%to%Caltigirone%(phonetic)%about%it.%
TYRON%ALI:%How%much%money%do%we%need%to%start%it?%
RON%WATERS:%Oh%I%don't%know,%how%much%money%we%need,%I%don't%know,%about%money.%Most%
of%the%stuff%is%already%done.%What's%not%done%is%if%we%went%to%this%guy,%I%told%Caltigirone%we%
would%see%this%guy,%Kofi%Asante%who%has%the%fatherhood....%
TYRON%ALI:%The%National%Comprehensive%Initiative%for%Fatherhood%yea.%
[1:21:54]%
RON%WATERS:%We%went%to%go%see%him.%He%had%a%nice%PowerPoint%presentation.%He%loves%that%
program.%This%is%a%lot%of%ways%that%we%can%establish%something%that%can%make,%that%has%all%the%
networks%in%play,%that's%what%Kofi%does.%See,%we%don't,%some%of%this%stuff%we%don't%have%to%
reinvent,%it's%already%in%place.%We%could%utilize%the%network,%I%mean%not,%it's%not%a%network,%it's%
networking%them%together.%Corbett%like,%you%know%Corbett%the%governor%he%liked%what%Kofi%had,%
you%know%there's%a%way%to%get%the%money,%ok%you%just%have%to%establish%the%program.%Public%
safety%has%to%be%one%of%our%number%one%initiatives,%I'm%so%glad%I'm%back%on%judiciary%because%my%
mission%it's%to%go%back%to%the%house,%I%want%to%inform,%or%write%letters%for%the%governor,%or%not%
the%governor,%the%speaker%to%have%what%they%call%the%compes...committee%as%the%whole,%where%
the%House%shuts%down%to%anything%the%conversation%or%issue%of%public%safety,%how%do%we%get%it%
right,%this%is%not%right%what%we're%doing,%obviously.%How%do%we%get%it%right?%How%do%we%create%ah%
create%a%safety,%security,%and%the%best%way%to%do%this%is%through%education%and%jobs,%and%the%
creation%of%a%job.%There's%men%that%have%job%skills%who%are%in%jail.%Or%we%can%get%them%job%skills%
when%they%come%home.%Or%create%programs%while%they%incarcerated%so%they%come%home%with%
job(ready%skills.%This%stuff%is%doable.%It's%all%doable.%And%if%we%really%want%to%show%that%we're%
doing%something%with%people's%money,%then%this%is%shit%we%gotta%do.%%
[1:23:44]%
28%
%
TYRON%ALI:%Again,%you%know,%it's%one%of%those%things,%do%you%think%that%you%can%garner%support%
from%the%House?%
RON%WATERS:%Yea.%I%had%it%with%Dwight%before%he%was%gone,%I%got%it%with%some%of%the%members%
now.%But%I%definitely%can%get%it%with%a%lot%of%the%leadership%I%had%is%way%back%so%we%cool.%
Dermody%always%agrees%with%me%that%we%have,%and%he's%a%former%prosecutor,%that%what%we're%
doing%in%the%courts%isn't%working.%It's%not%working,%I%mean%it's%clear%aint%working.%We%keep%doing%
the%same%shit%man,%we%getting%the%same%results.%
TYRON%ALI:%So%if%we,%if%we,%let%me%see%if%I'm%reading%this%right.%So%you%think%you've%identified%the%
problem.%
RON%WATERS:%Yes.%I'm%a%lawmaker.%
TYRON%ALI:%And%you%think%that%we%can%garner%enough%support%in%the%house,%to%push%the%agenda%
through%and%ultimately%work%it%through%the%Senate%to%get%funded.%
RON%WATERS:%Right.%If%we%get,%if%we%have%groups%of%something%to%compare%it%to,%what%we're%
doing%with%what%other%states%are%doing(%other%states%are%way%ahead%of%us.%Pennsylvania%is%so%far%
behind%on%this%issue.%Virginia,%Texas,%New%York,%Detroit,%Michigan,%some%of%the%other,%I%think%23%
states%are%cutting%down%on%their%prison%population.%We're%the%only%state%that's%going%up.%The%
only%state%that's%going%up,%building%new%prisons%man.%The%rest%of%them%maybe%is%stabilizing.%
We're%the%only%state%going%in%the%wrong%direction.%It's%an%argument%that%could%be%made,%and%
now%that%I%got%the%clergy%talking%the%same%stuff,%the%Attorney,%not%the%Attorney%General,%the%
Auditor%General%is%talking%the%same%stuff%now,%he's%monitoring%these%books,%he%says...%
TYRON%ALI:%Wagner?%
RON%WATERS:%Yea,%Wagner's%saying%it%too.%Wagner%had%a%press%conference%a%few%weeks%ago.%
Saying%the%same%thing%now%too.%This%is%the%new%movement,%this%is%the%civil%rights%movement.%
This%is%how%we%get,%this%is%how%we%stop%doing%what%we're%doing%and%try%to%find%a%fix%and%started%
working%out%what's%wrong%with%these%men,%what's%wrong%with%our%society%and%how%do%we%try%to%
turn%the%lives%around%of%these%men%and%increase%public%safety.%I'm%tired%of%not%being%able%to%sit%
on%my%porch%like%I%used%to%30%years%ago,%and%I%know%a%lot%of%people%are%tired%of%it.%You%know,%we%
have%to%break,%we%keep%saying%we%have%to%get%back%control%but%we're%not%doing%it.%Also%have%this%
school%superintendent%on%my%side.%I%got%a%lot%of%people%on%my%side%on%this%thing.%I%think%it's%this,%
maybe%you%can%help%me%but%it's%just%a%way%of%how%do%you%grab%it,%take%control%of%it%and%offer%
people%a%positive%way%that%already%know%that%stuff%too,%but%these%people%are%spending%their%
time%on%it%to%give%them%some,%some%enough%vision%that%they've%been%umm%I%have%the%vision,%but%
making%sure%that%other%people%can%see%it.%People%know%that%what%I'm%saying%is%right,%it's%just%a%
matter%of%how%do%I%give%it%some%identity%where%people%will%see,%now%here's%the%model,%here%is%
something%that%we%can%point%to.%Here's%something%that%will%work.%The%former%police%
commissioner,%Commissioner%Johnson,%he%wants%to%help,%cause%he%retired%now.%There's%a%lot%of%
ways%and%we%gotta%stop%this%shit%man.%We%go%to%a%federal%prison,%they%expect%61,000%inmates%
29%
%
over%the%next%three%years,%up%from%51%to%61.%That's%10,000%more%people%going%to%jail.%And%then%
add%to%that,%that%means%jails%are%gonna%be%maxed%out%again.%So%that%means%they%gonna%build%4%
more.%I%mean,%sooner%or%later%we%gotta%say%enough%is%enough.%I'm%saying%now%is%enough.%Let's%
turn%it%around.%Listen,%you%have%to%present%something%that%they%can%buy%into.%If%they%can%spend%
this%kind%of%money%on%prisons%man,%imagine%why%they%cant%spend%money%on%public%safety.%We%
should%be%the%one%grabbing%the%public%safety%issue%by%the%balls.%%
[1:27:50]%
TYRON%ALI:%Can%you%have%your%legislative%director%put%together%a%small%package%for%me?%
RON%WATERS:%Yea...%
TYRON%ALI:%As%to%what%you%want%to%do,%what%we,%first%of%all,%let's%start%at%the%beginning.%What%
the%mission%statement%of%the%non(profit%would%be,%who%we%would%put%in%terms%of%board%of%
directors,%maybe%2(3%people%for%now,%nothing%major,%cause%you%want%to%try%a%pilot%program.%And%
then%how%much,%you%know,%in%terms%of%resources,%let%them%itemize%for%me%what%we%need%in%
order%to%breathe%life,%not%to%fund%the%whole%thing((%
RON%WATERS:%No...%
TYRON%ALI:%((%Just%to%breathe%life%into%it.%%
RON%WATERS:%%Breathe%life.%
TYRON%ALI:%%You%know?%Let's%just%assume%that%we%could%help%it,%help%it%get%its%first%real%breath,%
cause%%
RON%WATERS:%Right.%
TYRON%ALI%((%I%think%that's%what%you're%talking%about,%you%know?%
RON%WATERS:%Yea.%
TYRON%ALI:%And%then%we%could%go%from%there.%I'm%interested%in%helping.%%You%know,%but%
sometimes%when%you%want%to%help,%you%have%to%know%how%to%help.%You%know?%And%sometimes%
then%it's%not%the%easiest%thing%to%identify%cause,%the%problem%at%times%is%large%and%then%it%is%deep.%
[1:29:05]%
RON%WATERS:%Well%you%know%when%I%look%what%Geoffrey%Canada%did%up%in%New%York%in%the%
Harlem%Children's%zone,%so%for%him%now%to%be%a%national%model,%everybody's%looking%at%this%guy%
as,%and%he's%no%different%than%you%or%me,%you%know?%He%just%had%an%idea.%He%had%a%vision.%You%
know,%now%the%guy%Kofi%from%last%week,%it's%you%know%five%years%ago%they%had%an%income%of%41%
million%dollars,%you%know%from%a%$5,000%donation%now%they%have%41%million%dollars,%you%know%
it's%a%lot%of%money%that%he's%getting%for%just%taking%care%of%the%neighborhood,%just%taking%care%of%
the%neighborhood.%Ran%on%the%cause%around%children,%keeping%them%on%the%right%path,%sending%
30%
%
these%children%and%successfully%get%through%all%the%way%to%college%and%developing%the%
neighborhood.%I%mean%he%has%developed%the%neighborhood%block%by%block%and%turned%those%
properties%that%were%abandoned%shells%into,%into%expensive%properties%that%have%raised%the%
property%value%for%everybody%around%the%damn%neighborhood.%He%has%done%a%model,%schools,%
everything%inside%of%this%facility.%This%neighborhood%transformation,%thats%what%this%is%about,%
public%safety,%you%know.%Stop%crime,%it%showed%that%black%people%can%learn,%it%showed%that%
people%of%color%could%learn,%it,%he's%done%a%tremendous%job.%And%I%don't%see%why%we%can't%do%
something%similar%to%that%intervention.%
TYRON%ALI:%Well,%you%know,%a%lot%of%times,%as%I%told%you%in%the%beginning,%policy%has%shifted,%
policy%shifted.%So%I'm%looking%to%you%for%leadership%on%this%because%you%know%this%is%outside%of%
my%scope,%number%one.%Number%two%I%dont%know%enough%about%the%problem,%but%we%are%
willing%to%help%solve%the%problem,%you%know?%You%know%you%can%always%count%on%me.%%
[1:31:07]%
TYRON%ALI:%But%if%you%can%have%someone%put%together%a%little%three%or%five%pager.%You%know?%
And%again,%our%folks%are%strange%in%the%sense%that%if%you%overwhelm%them,%they%stay%
overwhelmed.%(laughing)%Cause%they%ask%a%lot%of%questions%and%what%I'm%trying%to%do%is%find%a%
strategy%to%breathe%some%life%into%this%project%without%anyone%being%overwhelmed%by%the%
project,%you%know?%
RON%WATERS:%It's%a%new%venture%for%them%and%I%wouldn't%want%them,%or%even%you%to%either%
concern%yourself%about%you%know,%trailing%it%I%mean,%going%through%the%new%trail.%There%are%
people%who%are,%like%my%daughter,%Monica,%you%know%her.%She's%one%of%the%board%members%of%
creating%a%village,%%but%there%are%there%are%some%things%that%the%community%needs%in%order%for%it%
to%be%able%to%be%that,%in%the%City%of%Brotherly%Love%and%we're%in%a%great%place%to%do%it%too,%
because%its%America's%birth%place,%back%towards%gaining%control%of%it's%own%destiny.%That%kind%of%
stuff%has%to%happen.%
TYRON%ALI:%I%agree%with%you.%I%agree%with%you.%And%again,%we%go%back%to,%and%I,%we%go%back%to%
you.%We%go%back%to%the%public%seeing%Representative%Waters,%not%just%doing%the%popular%thing,%
but%doing%the%right%thing%for%the%right%reason,%at%the%right%time.%You%know,%all%of%those%things,%all%
of%those%things%are%important.%And%the%fact%that%we%can%help%support%makes%all%the%sense%in%the%
world.%I%understand%and%I%appreciate%you%saying,%you%know%Ty%we%don't%have%to%reinvent%the%
wheel.%Then%show%me%what%parts%of%the%wheel%we%need%to%invent.%And%then%teach%me%how%to%
move%that%wheel%you%know,%because%I%will%help%you%build%another%wheel.%%
[1:33:10]%
RON%WATERS:%Ok,%and%I%understand%that.%There's%a%lot%of%stuff%that%you%specialize%in.%This%is,%this%
has%been%one%of%my%issues.%I%see%it%as%something%important.%I%see%it%as,%I%know%that%other%people%
have,%the%resources%are%out%there,%I%go%to%the%wrong%bars,%and%then%it's%snowing.%There's%a%lot%of%
31%
%
people,%I%know%the%(???)%these%people%have%a%tons%of%money,%and%they,%it's%like%they%((
[inaudible]((%but%he%has%stock%money.%You%know%he%got%the%$41%million%and%he%said,%ya'll%gotta%
stop.%Cause%we%didn't%have%the%capacity%to%do%what%these%corporate%people%wanted%him%to%do.%
So%like%rather%than%taking%and%sit%on%the%money%and%not%use%it,%it%got%to%be%so%much%that%he%had%
to%spend%a%little%on%a%piece%of%that.%%Let%me%first%manage%what%you%already%get%and%do%something%
with%that%before%you%pour%more%money%into%my%program.%And%so%I%think%that%the%money%is%out%
there...%
TYRON%ALI:%Who%in%the%House%do%you%think%would%support%this%with%you?%
RON%WATERS:%Dermody.%I%think%um%if%I%could%get%the%speaker%to%agree%to%do%this%committee%of%
the%whole,%because%out%of%this%committee%of%the%whole%I%have%to%be%able%to%also%tell%them%what%I%
believe%we%need%to%start%working%on,%we%going%to%stop%investing%tax%payer%dollars%in%punishment%
and%re,%re(directing%that%money%towards%real%public%safety.%It%has%to%be%(%the%blueprint%has%to%be%
in%place.%The%blueprint%Detroit%that%had%a%blueprint%in%place.%I%believe%I%have%a%blueprint.%I%just%
need%to%make%sure%that%I%have%the%ability%to%um%put%it%together.%
[1:35:06]%
TYRON%ALI:%And%you%think%you%can%put%something%together%for%me%by%next%week.%
RON%WATERS:%We%can%get%something%together.%I%got%two%right(hands%that%work%for%me,%these%
guys%in%jail.%They%got%nothing%but%time%on%their%hands.%They%don't%even%want%the%credit,%they%just%
do%the%work.%These%guys%stick%around%by%themselves%all%day,%they%got%the%research,%they%got%
computers%and%shit.%They%just%um%they'll%do%anything%I%tell%them%to%do.%I%got,%I%have%never%ever%
agreed%to%anything%to%be%able%to%actually%have%the%hardest%criminals%in%the%world%working%for%
me.%Why%do%you%do%it?%Cause,%SCI%Graterford%is%the%fifth%largest%maximum%facility%in%the%nation.%I%
got%the%lifers%inside%of%there,%the%hardest%of%the%hardest%criminals%man%working%for%me.%The%
secretary%of%corrections%knows%it.%Of%course%the%superintendent%knows%it,%they%all%know%it.%%
TYRON%ALI:%That's%impressive.%
RON%WATERS:%That's%right%man.%
TYRON%ALI:%%I%can't%say%any%other%person%has%that.%
RON%WATERS:%No%
TYRON%ALI:%Can%you?%
RON%WATERS:%In%the%world.%In%the%world.%We%just%had%to%call%a%call%out%back%in%2000((%let%me%tell%
you%what%we%did.%That's%why%I%can%talk%about%evidence.%Back%in%2007%we%had%something%called%
the%Old%School/New%School%call%out.%It%was%at%the%Community%College%of%Philadelphia.%Guys%that%
work%for%me%put%together%a%platform%for%them%to%speak%to%people%of%the%community%about%the%
senseless%crimes%going%on,%so%we%put%together%a%teleconference,%technology%to%have%people%
come%to%community%college%and%speak%to%them%and%see%a%video,%not%video,%see%the%screens,%we%
32%
%
had%a%projector%up%there.%Well%the%guys%from%Graterford%that%see%the%people%that%go%to%the%
college%and%the%people%at%community%college%could%see%the%people%at%Graterford.%We%had%900%
inmates%waiting%for%them%in%their%auditorium%in%the%backdrop,%12%guys%on%the%panel%who%were%
selected%to%speak%about%senseless%crime.%To%tell%these%men%in%the%community%to%raise%good%sons%
at%home,%be%a%man,%stop%sending%your%son%up%there%for%us%to%raise%your%child.%Keep%his%ass%at%
home.%You%know,%they%asked%me%to%put%this%together.%I%was%scared.%My%career's%on%the%line%with%
this.%
TYRON%ALI:%Right,%right.%
RON%WATERS:%In%19,%in%2006,%there%were%406%homicides%in%the%city,%right?%406.%In%the%first%14%
days%of%2007,%there%were%26%homicides%in%the%city.%So%not%only%did%we%have%a%terrible%year%in%
2006,%but%2007%was%getting%to%be%even%worse%with%the%killings.%
TYRON%ALI:%Its%always,%it's%difficult.%%
RON%WATERS:%Guess%what?%After%we%had%that%call%out,%first%of%its%kind%ever%in%the%history%of%the%
world,%first%of%its%kind,%I%got%the%Department%of%Corrections%to%agree%that%they%would%hear%it%too.%
Those%900%men%in%the%backdrop,%looking%at%the%audience,%to%the%2500%people%I%had%at%the%
community%college,%Gave%all%those%guys%marching%orders,%about%go%back%out%there%and%fix%it.%%
There%were%no%homicides%in%the%city%for%10%days%after%that%broadcast.%I%mean,%I%feel%sincerely%
that%this%shit%works.%These%guys%have%what%they%call%street%credibility.%They%could%talk%to%some%
stuff%that%you%and%I%can't%talk%to,%to%these%guys%in%the%neighborhood.%That's%why%they%go%to%the%
schools,%to%educate%(([inaudible]((%and%then%those%guy%talk%to%them,%I%can't%talk%to%them%like%
these%guys%can.%They%can%talk.%You%don't%want%to%come%up%here.%So%what%I'm%saying%is%that%we%
have%some%models%of%programs%that%we%have%that%are%genuine%precedent.%We%have%something%
that%will%work%already%and%it%works.%And%if%we%saved%I%dont%know%how%many%lives%in%2007,%with%
the%program,%from%14(0%in%10%days,%that%wasn't%a%coincidence%brother(%that%was%the%guys%at%
Graterford%and%what%took%me%out((%people%claimed%that%Kenyatta%and%all%those%guys,%he%wasn't%a%
State%Rep%then,%they%said%how%did%you%get%those%guys?%Those%were%real%gangsters%
TYRON%ALI:%Can%I%give%this%to%you%hun?%and%I%need%a%receipt.%
FEMALE%SERVER:%Ok%Ill%grab%the%check.%
TYRON%ALI:%Ok%
RON%WATERS:%They%come%to%me,%how%did%you%get%those%guys,%these%real%gangsters,%these%real%
gangsters,%real%real%hard%nose%gangsters%to%get%them%to%do%what%you%had%them%do?%And%I%told%
them,%I%don't%know.%I%don't%know%how%I%got%them%to%do%it.%But%I%got%it%done.%%
TYRON%ALI:%Kenyatta,%you%think%he%would%support%it?%
RON%WATERS:%He%already%does.%He%loves%it.%
TYRON%ALI:%But%he's,%he's%leaving.%You're%not%gonna%have%his%vote.%
33%
%
RON%WATERS:%Yea,%dog,%he's%gone.%%(([inaudible]((%
TYRON%ALI:%He's%out%of%there.%
RON%WATERS:%He's,%even%when%he's%on%council,%he'll%be%on%board%with%me.%Cause%Curtis%Jones%is%
on%board%with%me.%
TYRON%ALI:%Curtis?%
[1:40:11]%
RON%WATERS:%Curtis,%yea.%We%had%a%meeting%with%the%judges.%And%the%DAs%on%this%stuff.%We,%
they%establishing%a%(RR?)%program%too.%Everybody's%on%board%with%this.%Man,%we%gotta%stop%
going%in%this%direction,%this%is%great.%This%is%great%for%public%safety,%this%is%great%for%education%of%
kids,%this%is%great%for%bringing%our%men%home%and%putting%them%back%together%with%their%family%
and%raise%their%family.%There's%guys%at%Graterford%also%have%a%new%program%that%they%want%to%
start%that's%gonna%bring%the%men%and%the%children%together%so%they%can%stop%the%cycle%of%
generation%of%generations%going%to%jail.%%
TYRON%ALI:%I%just,%I%think%it's%a%wonderful%idea.%Um,%you%know%again,%it's%about%not%knowing%
enough%about%the%issue.%You%know,%I%had%a%long%conversation%with%Sultan%Akmed.%(phonetic)%
RON%WATERS:%Akmed.%
TYRON%ALI:%And%we%just,%you%know,%I%had%helped%him%that%I%don't%know%enough%about%the%issue%
to%say%that%I%helped%them%and%it%made%the%difference,%you%know?%
RON%WATERS:%He%be%out%there%looking%for%help,%too.%
TYRON%ALI:%(to%server)%Thank%you%love.%
FEMALE%SERVER:%You're%receipts%in%there%for%ya.%
TYRON%ALI:%Uh%huh,%thank%you.%
FEMALE%SERVER:%Have%a%wonderful%evening%guys.%
TYRON%ALI:%You%too.%Probably%see%you%tomorrow.%
RON%WATERS:%He%understands%the%significant...%
FEMALE%SERVER:%I'm%off%tomorrow.%
TYRON%ALI:%Wednesday.%
FEMALE%SERVER:%I%have%a%day%off.%%
TYRON%ALI:%(laughing)%
RON%WATERS:%One%day.%
34%
%
FEMALE%SERVER:%One%day,%yea.%
TYRON%ALI:%One%day.%She's%pleasant.%
RON%WATERS:%She%is.%She%was%our%server%last%year,%last%night%
TYRON%ALI:%Yes,%she%was.%She%was%the%same%girl.%Yep.%%%The%biggest%thing,%you%know,%I%think%it's%
your%neighborhood,%just%because%of%the%sheer%poverty,%I%think%it's%worse,%cause%that%poverty%
is...it's%not%something%that%you%can,%that%takes%one%generation%to%climb%out%of%it.%It%is%a%multi(
generational%effort.%That's%the%problem%because%most%young%people,%you%know%they're%5%or%6%
years%old,%young%kids%and%their%father's%incarcerated,%and%then%it%takes%the%little%boy%growing%up%
to%sort%of%help%that%generation%along.%He%can't%look%to%his%dad%cause%his%dad%is%lost.%You%know?%
[1:41:22]%
RON%WATERS:%That's%so%truth.%It's%so%sad.%But%we%gotta%get%these%lawmakers%all%to%realize%they%
gotta%stop%writing%some%of%these%damn%laws%they%write.%
TYRON%ALI:%You%and%your%folks.%
RON%WATERS:%Yea,%well...%
TYRON%ALI:%(laughs)%
RON%WATERS:%They%pass%those%bill%last%week,%passed%a%bill,%it's%hard%not%to%vote%in%favor%of%this%
stuff,%but%it%was%dealing%with%homeless%people%who%come%into%the%city%who%was%on%Megans%list%
of%a%certain%predators,%and%that%they%must%register%and%if%they%don't%register,%they%get%two%years%
in%jail.%Now...%
TYRON%ALI:%But%if%they're%sexual%predators,%you%don't%think%they%ought%to%register?%
RON%WATERS:%Yea.%They%should.%But%giving%them%two%years%in%jail%is%is%kind%of%extreme.%Now,%
first%he%was%homeless,%now%you're%gonna%give%him%two%years%in%jail.%Now%you%took%him%from%
being%homeless%to%homeless,%I%mean%to%a%home.%And,%and%I%didn't%argue%the%bill%because%I%didn't%
want%to%argue%against%anything%that%sounds%good%(([inaudible]((%My%argument%is%what%are%you%
doing%with%the%guy%while%he's%in%jail?%
TYRON%ALI:%Sure.%
RON%WATERS:%He's%gonna%come%home.%Now,%what%you%could%do%is%nothing.%Then%he%comes%
home,%he%says,%shit,%that%wasn't%too%bad.%I%had%three%hots%and%a%cot.%Now%I'm%coming%back%out,%
homeless%again,%shit%I'm%going%back%to%jail.%I%won't%sign%up%again.%Ok?%That's%all%he%has%to%do,%
basically%under%the%law,%all%he%has%to%do%is%not%register.%And%once%he%don't%register%he%gets%three%
years,%minimum.%So%he%goes%to%jail%for%two%years,%comes%out.%He%tries,%now%he's%struggling,%he's%
homeless%again.%Now%he's%cold%in%the%winter,%what%do%you%think%he's%gonna%do?%Fuck%signing%
that,%I%won't%sign%that%cause%if%I%don't%I%get%two%years.%And%go%back%to%jail.%Those%are%the%kind%of%
unscientific,%not%thought%out%laws%we%came%up%with.%
35%
%
[1:44:18]%
TYRON%ALI:%But%what%percentage%of%people%do%you%actually%think%think%that%way?%
RON%WATERS:%About%not%signing%up%again?%
TYRON%ALI:%Yes.%
RON%WATERS:%The%ones%who%go%to%jail%and%find%out,%that%this%aint%too%bad,%I%could%do%two%years.%
I'm%%Im%thinking%that,%my%thing%is,%what%if%you,%why%don't%we%$75,000%(([inaudible]((%Why%you%
just%gonna%lock%them%up%with%these%people%in%jail,%you%know?%%
TYRON%ALI:%Alright...%
RON%WATERS:%If%you're%not%careful,%they'll%come%out%and%rape%somebody%cause%they'll%be%mad%
and%angry%and%what%they%call%addicted%to%justice,%somebody%gotta%pay.%Things%like%that%if,%he%
gone%come%out%mad%and%he%comes%out%ok,%then%he's%going%back%again.%The%only%thing%is%
spending%taxpayer%dollars,%but%if%comes%out%(([inaudible]((%he%gonna%take%it%out%on%somebody%
and%the%guy%will%come%out%and%kill%(([inaudible]%
TYRON%ALI:%Look,%let's%try%to%do%this:%put%the%talking%points%together%for%me,%let's%see%if%we%can%
breathe%a%little%bit%of%air%into%this%and%I%will%find%the%money%to%put%it%together,%right?%But%you%
gotta%start%helping%me%now.%
[1:45:21]%
RON%WATERS:%Listen,%I'm%going%back,%I%found%out%today%I'm%going%back%on%judiciary%
TYRON%ALI:%Alright.%
RON%WATERS:%I%have%to%say...%
TYRON%ALI:%Well%we%passed%a%law%saying%they%gotta%collect%all%the%parking%tickets%and%you%can't%
do%that%(laughing).%
RON%WATERS:%Oh%no,%I%mean%all%this%stuff%is%done%.%
TYRON%ALI:%We'll%figure%it%out...I%know.%Why%do%you%think%Im%coming%to%you?%You're%the%man%to%
get%the%man,%that's%how%it%is.%
RON%WATERS:%They%said%they%want%me%back%on%there%because%the%chair%said%that%nothing%going%
on,%they%need%me%back.%The%leadership%say,%we%need%you%back.%Go%back%to%that%committee,%get%
some%life%into%it%again.%
[1:45:57]%
TYRON%ALI:%Where'd%you%park?%You%outside?%Ok,%I'm%gonna%walk%with%you%cause%I%got%something%
for%you.%Where%are%you?%On%this%side?%
36%
%
RON%WATERS:%Yea,%I%don't%know%if%we%can%go%out%here%though.%
TYRON%ALI:%No,%I%don't%%
RON%WATERS:%They%got%them%all%blocked%off.%
FEMALE%SERVER:%Thank%you%gentlemen.%
TYRON%ALI:%I%saw%you%all%day%today,%didn't%I?%Thank%you.%
FEMALE%SERVER:%Yes,%yes%you%did.%%
RON%WATERS:%(???)%
FEMALE%SERVER:%Yes,%I%did,%and%be%festive%so%I%can%look%good%for%my%guests.%
TYRON%ALI:%Thank%you%very%much.%
RON%WATERS:%Alright.%%
TYRON%ALI:%I%think%we%can%come%out%this%way.%
RON%WATERS:%Yea.%%[inaudible]%
TYRON%ALI:%I%was,%I've%been%here,%a%round%here%all%day%long.%
RON%WATERS:%Really?%
TYRON%ALI:%Yeah,%you're%meeting%number%I%think%5%or%6%or%something%like%that.%
RON%WATERS:%(laughing)%You%gonna%blow%up%man.%[inaudible]((%%
TYRON%ALI:%300,%no%I'm%not%gonna%do%that.%No,%I'm%not%gonna%do%that.%%
RON%WATERS:%Is%that%how%you%did%it%the%last%time?%
TYRON%ALI:%That's%how%I%did%it.%Now%I%learned%my%lesson.%
RON%WATERS:%I%see%you%didn't%eat%just%now,%man.%
TYRON%ALI:%No,%yea%no%you%can't%do%that.%
RON%WATERS:%Thank%you%for%dinner%though%man%
TYRON%ALI:%Oh%you're%welcome%brother.%Anytime.%But%the%thing%about%it%is,%with%regard%to%the%
project,%if%we%put%something%together,%as%long%as%it's%sustainable%((%
RON%WATERS:%It%has%to%be.%
TYRON%ALI:%((%as%long%as%it's%sustainable...%
37%
%
RON%WATERS:%It%has%to%be.%
TYRON%ALI:%You%know%we'll%be%able%to,%this%is%me%right%here.%
RON%WATERS:%Watch%it,%watch%it%
TYRON%ALI:%It's%ok.%
RON%WATERS:%%But%you%know,%they%also%got%this%guys%who's%a%Senator%on%the%federal%level%
named%Jim%Webb%out%of%Virginia,%who%tried%to%do%the%same%thing.%He%called%for%reform.%
[1:47:42]%
TYRON%ALI:%Where%are%you%parked,%over%here?%
RON%WATERS:%Yea,%down,%right%up%the%street%
TYRON%ALI:%Ok.%
RON%WATERS:%Closest%parking%space%I%could%find.%You%right%here?%
TYRON%ALI:%Yea,%yea.%Let%me%give%you%this%man,%(([inaudible]((%Thats%for%you%alright.%
RON%WATERS:%Alright,%thank%you%brother.%%
TYRON%ALI:%Alright.%
RON%WATERS:%Man,%you%take%care%
TYRON%ALI:%Alright%man.%Ron%look,%I'll%call%you,%Ill%call%you%Friday.%
RON%WATERS:%Friday?%
TYRON%ALI:%Yea.%
RON%WATERS:%Alright.%
TYRON%ALI:%Alright.%%[1:48:07]%
%
CLAUDE%THOMAS:%This%device%is%being%deactivated%at%this%time,%again%Monday,%February%the%
14th,%year%2011,%current%time%is%21:11:00%hours.%Is%that%when%you%just%gave%it%to%him?%%
%
(Tape%not%deactivated)%%
TYRON%ALI:%Yup.%%
CLAUDE%THOMAS:%Ok.%%
TYRON%ALI:%And%I%said,%here%man,%this%is%for%you.%
38%
%
CLAUDE%THOMAS:%Ok.%I%was%hoping%you%didn't%let%him%get%in%the%car%cause%he%would%look%at%me%
and%say,%he%won't%know%where%he%knows%me%from.%
TYRON%ALI:%No,%I%would%never%let%that%happen.%
CLAUDE%THOMAS:%But%in%the%future,%if%something%like%that%happen,%and%cause,%you're%gonna%get,%
youre%gonna%have%an%occasion%where%someone%doesn't%have%a%ride%and%so%forth%and%they%may%
say%can%you%give%me%a%ride%and%your%position%is,%I%do%not%conduct%any%business%around%this%
person%or%allow,%around%him,%I%keep%it%separate%or%I%don't%conduct,%I%do%not%conduct%any%business%
around%him%or%allow%him%to%see%my%associates.%
TYRON%ALI:%This%is%what%I%was%trying%to%tell%you,%they%keep%calling%my%phone.%
CLAUDE%THOMAS:%Ok.%
TYRON%ALI:%Like,%Ty,%where%you%at?%
CLAUDE%THOMAS:%So%you...did%you%call%them%back%and%say%where%you%at?%
TYRON%ALI:%No,%I%didn't%say%nothing,%because%I%was%waiting,%you%know%what%I%mean?%
CLAUDE%THOMAS:%Yea,%yea,%you%know%we%know.%Where's%McGraths?%
TYRON%ALI:%You're%gonna%have%to%give%me%some%cash%
CLAUDE%THOMAS:%I%got%you.%%
TYRON%ALI:%Alright,%I%don't%really,%is%uh%this%is%the%representative%calling.%
CLAUDE%THOMAS:%Right,%right.%
%
39%
%
T""57""March"1st,"2011"
CLAUDE" THOMAS:" Special" Agent," Pennsylvania" Office" of" Attorney" General." Badge" number" 118." A"
certification" number" is" A1418." Todays" date" is" Tuesday," March" 1st," year" 2011." Current" time" is" 17:03"
hundred""hours."This"recording"device"will"be"placed"on"CIS2010S01"in"reference"to"Investigation"Number"
36S622."CI"will"be"proceeding"to"a"location"within"the"confines"of"Harrisburg"City,"Dauphin"County"and"
meeting" with" VB," recording" conversations" in" reference" to" this" investigation." This" tape" will" remain"
activated"until"I"deactivate"it"at"a"later"time."
SS"07:08SS"
(Phone"rings)"
TYRON"ALI:"(On"the"phone)"Hello?"Youre"at"your"office?"Okay,"I"am"three"blocks"away."You"couldve"just"
picked"me"up."But"no."Ill"be"there"in"a"couple"of"minutes."Alright,"thanks."Are"you"inside"your"office?"Are"
you"inside"the"office"or"outside?"Youre"inside?"Okay."No,"no,"no,"Ill"come"in."Ill"come"in."Alright."
Thanks.""
SS18:03SS"
TYRON"ALI:"(Knocks)"
"
UNIDENTFIED"FEMALE:"Hey,"why"you"knocking?"Were"still"open.""
TYRON"ALI:"(Laughs)"Okay."
UNIDENTIFIED"FEMALE:""This"is,"people"just"howl"at"this"time."While"youre"with"him,"Im"gonna"head"out"
TYRON"ALI:"(???)"How"are"you"dear?""
"
UNIDENTIFIED"FEMALE:""If"Im"not"here,"you"got"somebodyHave"a"good"evening,"Ill"see"both"of"you"in"
the"morningWell,"Ill"see"you"in"the"morning."Ty,"tomorrow"
TYRON"ALI:"(Laughs)"Bye."
UNIDENTIFIED"FEMALE:""Alright."
TYRON"ALI:"Hey,"can"I"talk"to"you"for"a"minute?"
VANESSA"BROWN:""Yeah."You"want"a"glass"of"water?"You"want"to"catch"your"breath?"
TYRON"ALI:"No,"no,"no,"no,"no."Im"good."Im"good."Just"running"around."So,"my"guy"from"D.C.,"he"called"
me."You"want"them"not"to"be"able"to"take"out"the"money?""
VANESSA"BROWN:"How"do"you,"tell"me"the"process"first"and"then"Ill"tell"you"if"I"want"you"to"do"it"or"not."
TYRON"ALI:"Its"not"the"process."This"is"something,"here.""The"process"isthe"process,"but"we"have"a"bit"
of"a"chip"to"play."This"is"for"who?"This"is"for"Tolbert."Or"its"for"the"neighborhood"coalition?"
VANESSA"BROWN:""This"is"for"the"community,"the"190th"district."Thatslet"me"do"this"first."
1"
"
T""57""March"1st,"2011"
TYRON"ALI:"So"its"a"community"grant?"
VANESSA"BROWN:"Well,"they"didnt,"I"dont"know,"I"was"new."I"was"a"freshman,"green"as"green"can"be."
and"Ron,"Ill"tell"you"the"story"again,"Ron"said"to"me,"Did"you"get"your"whim?"He"said,"Because"theyre"
giving"it"out"and"you"need"to"go"get"run"and"get"yours."And"then"Ron"is"like,"today"or"the"next"day,"so"
um"I"ran"upstairs"and"I"said,"Hey!"What"about"my"share?"and"thats"when"I"got"the"money."They"said,"
Okay,"the"moneys"gotta"be"in"by"the"end"of"the"day"tomorrow."I"mean,"the"um,"the"requests"for"the"
money,"have"to"be"in"by"the"end"of"the"day"tomorrow."They"said,"Do"you"have"anyone"we"can"get"that"
can"do"that"in"24"hours?"That"can"turn"it"over?"And"I"said,"Yea,"Lee"Tolbert"gets"it"all"the"time"So"I"
went"to"Lee"and"I"think"he"used"your"probably"to"go"to"D.C."for"$50,000"and"he"said,"No"problem."I"
said,"Now"this"money"is"my"money"for"community."I"said,"Are"we"clear"with"that?"Its"not"for"West"
Philadelphia"Coalition,"this"is"going"to"go"through"you"to"the"community."Its"a"501c3,"youre"my"
fiduciary."He"said,"No"problem."Thats"when"they"submitted"the"paperwork"which"I"never"got"to"see"
because"I"was"on"the"House"floor"and"the"paperwork,"the"way"they"submitted"it,"was"all"for"operating"
costs."For"their"organization."And"not"to"do"any"community"projects.""
TYRON"ALI:"Not"to"do"any"community"projects?"
VANESSA"BROWN:"Which"I"just"found"out."Which"is"probably"my"fault"because"I"should"have"probably"
looked"at"it"a"long"time"ago."
TYRON"ALI:"Mm"hmm."
VANESSA"BROWN:"And"looked"and"how"they"wrote"it"out."
TYRON"ALI:"You"dont"have"a"copy"of"it"at"all?"
VANESSA"BROWN:"I"can"get"it."Im"sure"I"probably"have"it"in"an"email."
TYRON"ALI:"Do"you"have"access"to"it?"
VANESSA"BROWN:"It"might"take"me"a"minute"to"get"it."
TYRON"ALI:"Can"I"get"the"application"number?"Cause"that"would"be"helpful."
VANESSA"BROWN:"Sure.""Do"you"want"me"toHow"much"time"do"you"have?"
TYRON"ALI:"I"have"enough!"Im"done"for"the"day.""
VANESSA"BROWN:""Do"you"have"enough"time"for"me"to"get"the"application"
TYRON"ALI:"Yeah,"yeah,"yeah."Im"done."I"just"need"to"get"this"to"my"guy"tonight"so"we"can"move"on"it."
VANESSA"BROWN:"Let"me"get"it."Okay."So"I"saved"everything"thats"on"it."
TYRON"ALI:"Okay."
VANESSA"BROWN:"So"I"should,"just"give"me"a"few"moments"to"look"it"up."
2"
"
T""57""March"1st,"2011"
TYRON"ALI:"Take"your"time,"dear."
VANESSA"BROWN:""So,"now"that"they"told"me"that"they"have"the"money,"and"I"said,"Well"good,"we"
need"to"get"together"so"we"can"decide"whos"going"to"get"what.""
TYRON"ALI:"MmShmm"
VANESSA"BROWN:""And"if"its"cleared"all"of"this,"he"said"he"needed"$10,000"to"go"to"the"community."
Yeah,"out"of"that"money."So"he"brought"me"to"the"office"and"said"I"need"to"take"it"out"of"that"money."
Now"it"was"supposed"to"be"all"for"operating"costs"but"now"$10,000,"Im"going"to"have"to"figure"out"how"
to"get"$10,000"to"the"community,"right?"(Laughs)"So,"I"forget,"they"say"all"this"stuff"in"the"beginning"once"
they"dont"remember"anything."(Inaudible)"(Sighs)"The"contract"is"fully"executed"to"implement"what"has"
been"sent"to"the"Comptroller"for"processing"
TYRON"ALI:"Can"you"print"that"up"for"me?"
VANESSA"BROWN:""Yeah."
TYRON"ALI:"Okay."
VANESSA"BROWN:""Let"me"find"the"number,"oh"here"it"is:"The"account"information"is"as"follows."Yup."I"
believe"in"my"heart"of"hearts"that"were"going"to"get"where"we"need"to"be,"were"just"going"to"have"to,"
ya"know."Hes"going"to"play"his"games,"but"hes"going"to"do"what"I"need."Because"hes"scared"to"death"
that"it"may"be"more"that"hes"not"getting."You"know?"
TYRON"ALI:"MmShmm."
VANESSA"BROWN:""Let"me"see"if"I"can"find"the"contract.""
TYRON"ALI:"Vanessa"
VANESSA"BROWN:""Oh"wait,"Im"dealing"with"two"people"because"hes"theirs."(Inaudible)"So"I"had"half"of"
it"split"up"for"the"coalition"(??)."I"think"the"numbers"on"the"same"page."
TYRON"ALI:"Yeah,"thats"what"I"need."Thanks."So"we"can"actually"track"it"down."
VANESSA"BROWN:""Now"lets"see"if"I"can"find"the"actual"contract."
TYRON"ALI:"That"would"be"perfect."And"we"only"applied"for"the"grant,"what?"The"15th"of"February?"Or"
was"it"before?"
VANESSA"BROWN:""No!"We"did"that"last"year!"
TYRON"ALI:"Okay,"November"right?"
VANESSA"BROWN:""Uhh,"Im"not,"well"as"soon"as"I"got"in"here"in"2009,"weve"been"waiting"a"long"time."
So"I"got"swornSin"in"December,"I"would"say"it"was"anywhere"between"March"and"October"of"2009.""
3"
"
T""57""March"1st,"2011"
TYRON"ALI:"Okay,"so"the"actual"originateMarch"of"2009"was"the"origination"day?"
VANESSA"BROWN:""Yeah,"somewhere"around"there."
TYRON"ALI:"Okay."Did"you"need"a"Senate"sponsor"for"this?"Or"you"just"
VANESSA"BROWN:""No,"that"came"from"Dwight"who"made"that"happen."
TYRON"ALI:"Okay."Hey,"do"you"thinkhey."Does"he"need"something"out"of"this"too?"
VANESSA"BROWN:""Who?"Dwight?"
TYRON"ALI:"Dwight,"yeah."
VANESSA"BROWN:""No.""
TYRON"ALI:"Okay."
VANESSA"BROWN:""He"could"care"less"about"that,"about"getting"money."
TYRON"ALI:"You"never"know.""
SS26:30"
TYRON"ALI:"How"much"money"do"you"think"Lee"needs"out"of"this,"I"mean"really?"How"much"do"you"think"
he"really"needs"out"of"this?"
VANESSA"BROWN:""He"wants"10,"but"I"think"hed"really"be"happy"with"3S5.""
TYRON"ALI:"With"5?"If"he"takes"3S5,"who"do"you"think"is"going"to"be"controlling"the"rest"of"the"money?"
VANESSA"BROWN:""Lee"still"will,"because"he"has"to."
TYRON"ALI:"Okay."
VANESSA"BROWN:""Cause"hes"gonna,"he"has"to"because"PCCD"is"holding"him"accountable"for"the"(???)."
That"I"cannot"get"around."
TYRON"ALI:"Of"course,"but"youll"still"be"able"to"guide"him"as"to"where"it"would"go?"
TYRON"ALI:"I"just"want"to"make"sure"he"understands"his"position."
VANESSA"BROWN:""A"lot"of"times"I"think"he"(???)"
TYRON"ALI:"Of"course."
VANESSA"BROWN:""Cause"I,"you"know,"we"gotta"be"careful"because"a"lot"of"times"he"can"smile"in"your"
face"but"be"pissed"off"and"kick"me"in"my"back."
4"
"
T""57""March"1st,"2011"
TYRON"ALI:"Thats"why"I"was"saying"to"you"earlier"that"its"so"important"for"you"to"almost"have"someone"
there"that"you"can"trust,"or"someone"who"has"your"best"interest"at"heart."He"knows"how"I"amShes"not"
going"to"play"those"games.""
VANESSA"BROWN:""How"do"you"twowhat"is"your"past?"What"is"your"history?"How"did"you"meet?"
TYRON"ALI:"With"him?"
VANESSA"BROWN:""Yeah."How"did"you"
TYRON"ALI:"Um,"we"knew"some"people"in"common."Ive"known"him"from"my"days"at"the"first"law"firm."I"
mean,"we"go"back"a"long"time."But"weve"always"been"in"different"groups,"but"he"knows"who"I"am."You"
know?"I"just"want"to"make"sure"that"he"does"not"try"to"usurp"your"authority"and"do"something"that"he"
should"not"be"able"to"do."
VANESSA"BROWN:""Because"if"he"takes"that"5,"then"the"rest"of"it"should"be"spent"for"my"needs."There"
should"be"no"disputing"on"it."
TYRON"ALI:"Were"you"able"to"locate"the"contract"or"no?"
VANESSA"BROWN:""No,"Im"not."Youre"going"to"have"to"call"Dwight"and"get"it."
TYRON"ALI:"Alright,"I"can"get"it."I"can"get"it."
VANESSA"BROWN:""Cause"he"then"came"to"me"and"put"it"above"my"LA"and"I"never"received"it."
TYRON"ALI:"Sure."
VANESSA"BROWN:""Cause"I"never"dealt"with"the"(Inaudible).""That"was"all"the"administrative"stuff."I"may"
not"have"it."
TYRON"ALI:"At"the"time"that"you,"you"ah,"from"the"time"that"you"applied"for"the"grant,"basically"there"
was"almost"a"year"and"a"half"waiting,"right?"
VANESSA"BROWN:""Right."
TYRON"ALI:"Is"that"typical"for"you??"Typically"grant"cycles"are"two"behind,"not"six"behind."Because"thats"
what"youre"saying."
TYRON"ALI:"You"have"to"wait"six"cycles?"
VANESSA"BROWN:""(Inaudible)"
TYRON"ALI:"I"thought"Dwight"liked"you."
5"
"
T""57""March"1st,"2011"
VANESSA"BROWN:""I"thought"that"(Inaudible)"Kenyatta"just"got"his"at"the"same"time."Hes"the"one"that"
gave"me"the"heads"up."He"said,"Mine"just"came."Wheres"yours?"He"said,"You"better"check"on"that."
Because"he"know"we"were"in"the"same"cycle."But"then"we"didnt"get"into"any"cycles"after,"so"theres"
nothing"after"this"for"us."
TYRON"ALI:"This"is"the"only"grant"that"you"have"access"to?"
VANESSA"BROWN:""Thats"it"and"you"were"big,"because"I"tried"to"put"in"for"the"following"cyclesSS"
TYRON"ALI:"Yes."
VANESSA"BROWN:""And"Dwight"was"like,"Dont"even"think"about"it."No."Cause"I"kept"saying,"okay"well"
Im"waiting"for"that"but"let"me"put"in"for"the"next"cycle"so"I"can"start"having"my"stuff"kicking"out."And"he"
was"like,"No."Theres"nothing."
TYRON"ALI:"Let"me"ask"you"something."So"you"have"control"basically"of"about"$45,"do"you"have"a"plan"for"
that"money?""
VANESSA"BROWN:""No,"not"yet."
TYRON"ALI:"Do"you"know"how"to"double"that"money?"Do"you"know"what"to"do"with"it?"
VANESSA"BROWN:""No."No."Because"I"didnt"want"to"make"a"plan"until"I"knew"it"was"here."
TYRON"ALI:"Okay."
VANESSA"BROWN:""Because"you"start"promising"people"stuff"and"then"you"cant"deliver"
TYRON"ALI:"No."
VANESSA"BROWN:""If"it"comes"around"(?)"theyd"probably"kill"you."
TYRON"ALI:"I"understand."
VANESSA"BROWN:""So"I"didnt"promise"anybody"anything."
TYRON"ALI:"So"nobody"knows."
VANESSA"BROWN:""No."
TYRON"ALI:"Thats"good."
VANESSA"BROWN:""Just"us."
TYRON"ALI:"Okay."
VANESSA"BROWN:""And"Gerald"and"Lee,"thats"it."Ive"told"no"one."
TYRON"ALI:"Keep"it"that"way."You"ready"to"go?"
6"
"
T""57""March"1st,"2011"
VANESSA"BROWN:""You"told"me"to"keep"something"under"the"lid,"it"doesnt"move."
TYRON"ALI:"No,"only"until"tomorrow."Give"me"until"tomorrow"or"tonight"
VANESSA"BROWN:""Im"not"gonna"tell"anybody"
TYRON"ALI:"Just"leave"it"
VANESSA"BROWN:".."until"we"know"who"its"going"to"go."
TYRON"ALI:"Yes."
VANESSA"BROWN:""And"then"we"call"them"up"and"we"say,"Hey!"Guess"what?"(Inaudible)"
TYRON"ALI:"Actually,"the"best"thing"to"do"is"uh,"wait"until"they"need"something."You"know?"
VANESSA"BROWN:""MmShmm."
TYRON"ALI:"My"guys"outside"but"do"you"mind,"oh"do"you"want"to"drive?"To"Gilligan"Island"(Laughs),"to"
Gilligans."I"cant"even"say"it."
VANESSA"BROWN:""(Laughs)"Im"taking"you"so"low,"you"cant"even"handle"it."You"(Inaudible)"(Laughing)."
TYRON"ALI:"No.""
VANESSA"BROWN:""Im"taking"you"slumming"(Laughs)."
TYRON"ALI:"Are"you"teasing"me?"(Laughs)."
VANESSA"BROWN:""Im"taking"you"slumming"(Laughing)."Hes"like,"I"cant"even"say"anything,"Gilligans"
Island"(Laughing)"
TYRON"ALI:"Thats"all"I"keep"thinking"about."
VANESSA"BROWN:""Next"youre"going"to"say,"Ahoy"matey!"(Laughing)"
TYRON"ALI:"Thats"all"I"keep"thinking"about"is"Gilligans"Island."
VANESSA"BROWN:""Oh,"youre"so.(sigh)"
SS32:04SS"
TYRON"ALI:"The"thing"about"it"is"normally"if"Dwight"sponsors"a"grant,"he"takes"a"portion"of"it,"usually."
VANESSA"BROWN:""This"is"so"low."
TYRON"ALI:"It"wouldnt"even"matter."Actually"it"does"matter."Why"do"you"think"he"let"you"just"ride?"
Because"of"the"other"grant?"
VANESSA"BROWN:""Oh"why"I"didnt"get"any"other"ones?"
7"
"
T""57""March"1st,"2011"
TYRON"ALI:"MmShmm"
VANESSA"BROWN:""But"Kenyatta"didnt"either"and"he"didnt"even"get"what"I"got.""
TYRON"ALI:"He"got"even"less."
VANESSA"BROWN:""No"he"got"$50,"we"both"got"$50"and"he"took"it"out"because"he"didnt"like"Kenyatta."
He"said"(Inaudible)"because"um"when"we"were"running"as"freshmen,"I"went"up"to"him"and"I"said,"I"need"
$10,000"and"he"said,"What?"I"dont"even"know"you!"And"I"said,"Okay,"then"I"need"$5."He"started"
laughing."He"said,"I"see"youre"joking"with"me."So"anyway,"so"he"got"up"on"this,"I"was"up"on"the"stomp"
speaking"and"he"came"to"the"event"and"Kenyatta"was"there,"and"he"said,"Kenyatta,"you"lucky"she"know"
how"to"ask"because"she"getting"$10"and"you"getting"$10,000"too."
TYRON"ALI:"Sure"
VANESSA"BROWN:""Then"when"(Inaudible)"the"same"thing"happen"(Inaudible)"but"I"cant"give"her"and"not"
give"you"any."
TYRON"ALI:"That"says"a"lot."Because"someone"told"me"the"other"day,"we"were"actually"looking"at"ballot"
positions"for"two"folks"that"were"working"with."And"she"said"to"me,"she"goes,"You"know,"if"it"werent"
for"Kenyatta,"Vanessa"wouldnt"even"be"here."I"said,"Really,"how"do"you"figure"that?"And"shes"like,"
He,"I"promise"you,"hes"the"one"who"told"to"look"at"her"ballots.""
VANESSA"BROWN:""They"all"think"they"know."They"dont"know."
TYRON"ALI:"(Laughs)"
VANESSA"BROWN:""This"place"is"so"incestuous."
TYRON"ALI:"It"is,"it"absolutely"is."Absolutely"is.""
VANESSA"BROWN:""He"didnt"even"know"I"was"running."I"didnt"even"tell"anybody"I"was"filing"my"
petitions."How"would"I"even"read"the"ballot?"What"do"you"mean"about"my"ballot?"Im"thinking"petitions.""
TYRON"ALI:"It"is"your"petitions."
VANESSA"BROWN:""Yeah,"no."
TYRON"ALI:"Not"yours."Tommys."
VANESSA"BROWN:""No."Yeah."No."Nobody"even"knew.""They"didnt"even"know"what"I"was"doing."Only"
people"S"I"keep"stuff"so"closeS"the"only"people"knew"was"me"and"my"dad."
TYRON"ALI:"People"are"always"ah,"you"know,"people"will"always"think"they,"or"say"things"they"believe,"ya"
know?"
SS34:54"
8"
"
T""57""March"1st,"2011"
VANESSA"BROWN:""Wheres"your"guy?"
TYRON"ALI:"My"who?"
VANESSA"BROWN:""You"said"your"guy"is"where?"
TYRON"ALI:"Oh"heshe"mightve"left"already."
VANESSA"BROWN:""So"youre"okay?"Youre"fine"to"leave?"You"dont"have"to"
TYRON"ALI:"Yeah,"yeah,"yeah."Were"fine"to"leave"
VANESSA"BROWN:""SScheck"with"anybody?"Im"right"here."
TYRON"ALI:"This"is"you"here?"
TYRON"ALI:"Oh."
VANESSA"BROWN:""Now"you"got"to"remember"Im"on"the"road"and"I"live"out"of"this"car."
TYRON"ALI:"(Laughs)."Its"okay."It"is"okay."
TYRON"ALI:"Its"so"interesting,"being"up"here,"how"it"is"so"different"from"every"other"place"that"Ive"been.""
VANESSA"BROWN:""(Laughs)"This"is"a"strange"placeHarrisburg."Buckle"up"for"safety!"(?)"
TYRON"ALI:"Oh"my"God."(Laughs)."Are"you"really"like"that?"
VANESSA"BROWN:""Can"you"get"it"with"all"my"stuff"in"the"way?"
TYRON"ALI:"I"got"it."No"its"alright."
VANESSA"BROWN:""I"have"one,"you"know"what."You"might"not"be"able"to"get"it"because"some"days"it"
clicks"and"some"days"it"doesnt."
TYRON"ALI:"It"doesnt"work.""
VANESSA"BROWN:""Dont"worry"about"it."Yeah."I"forgot"about"that."That"reminds"me,"maybe"tomorrow"
Ill"call"them"and"have"them"come"get"it"and"fix"it."
TYRON"ALI:"People"are"beginning"to"talk,"theyre"trying"to"figure"out"where"is"Mr."Evans"this"session.""
VANESSA"BROWN:""He"was"there"today."He"was"up,"I"dont"know"why."He"mustve"had"a"deal."(Driving)"
Oh"Im"sorry."I"missed"that"they"were"letting"me"go."He"mustve"had"some"deal"to"make"today"because"
he"was"up"here"and"he"came"up"on"the"House"floor"for"a"hot"second."
9"
"
T""57""March"1st,"2011"
TYRON"ALI:"Ill"tell"you"something,"you"gave,"you"did"him"a"huge"favor"and"its"unfortunate"that"you"cant"
leverage"it"because"its"too"late."
VANESSA"BROWN:""So"what"was"the"favor?"
TYRON"ALI:"Helping"him"get"that"check"to"the"bird"sanctuary"folks."
VANESSA"BROWN:""Oh"yeah."Yea."Thatll"work"out"better"for"him"than"it"ever"will"for"me"probably."Well,"
no"cause"Im"going"to"get"back"in"there"and"work"it"and"figure"it"out."
TYRON"ALI:"Absolutely"because"the"check"did"come"from"you."
VANESSA"BROWN:""MmShmm"
TYRON"ALI:"You"know"what"I"mean?"Leveraging"those"relationships"is"a"key"part"
VANESSA"BROWN:""And"the"spring"is"time"for"me"to"call"them"because"were"supposed"to"plan"the"check"
presentation,"because"they"got"the"check,"they"got"the"award"letter"in"December."It"was"between"
Thanksgiving"and"December"and"they"wanted"to"do"it"then"and"I"said,"No."This"is"bad"timing."So"Im"
going"to"stand"here"and"give"you"over"two"million"dollars"while"the"rest"of"this"district"is"hungry?"I"dont"
think"so."I"said,"Well"wait"until"the"spring"after"the"holidays."And"then"we"can"do"this."People"are"out"
of"work"and"they"dont"have"a"turkey"for"Thanksgiving"or"toys"for"Christmas."Bad"timing."So,"Im"glad"
you"mentioned"that."Ill"tell"Takiesha"to"get"in"touch"and"Rob"Stewart"to"get"in"touch"with"those"folks.""
TYRON"ALI:"The"thing"about"it"
VANESSA"BROWN:""If"this"gets"too"warm"let"me"know."Cause"I"am"anemic."I"can"never"have"enough"heat."
TYRON"ALI:"Im"from"Trinidad."Its"okay.""
VANESSA"BROWN:""Alright."
TYRON"ALI:"The"thing"about"it"is"that"when"you,"when"you"try"to"hold"those"discussion"with"folks"and"try"
to"be"an"active"participant"in"a"relationship"such"as"that,"where"youre"providing"them"with"resources"
and"you"want"them"to"also"be"participating"as"a"community"partner,"its"very"difficult"to"have"those"
conversations"after"the"moneys"gone."You"know?"Its"very"difficult."You"have"to"hold"them"accountable"
while"you"have"them"there."
VANESSA"BROWN:""Right."While"you"have"their"attention."
TYRON"ALI:"And"
VANESSA"BROWN:""They"sure"were"jumping"in"front"of"my"face"like"popcorn"trying"to"get"that"money"
and"now"that"theyve"got"it,"Ive"heard"nothing"but"crickets"from"them."I"cant"even"get"a"blueprint,"a"
plan,"nothing."
TYRON"ALI:"The"interesting"thing"is"that"they"will"all"be"like"that.""
10"
"
T""57""March"1st,"2011"
TYRON"ALI:"Unless"youve"got"enough"support"or"some"relationships"that"will"help"people"understand,"
heySSS"
VANESSA"BROWN:""Shes"not"playing."
TYRON"ALI:"Yea."Dont"uh,"you"know?"
VANESSA"BROWN:""Well"let"me"tell"you"something."The"meeting"yesterday"with"Brian"Preston"went"
extremely"well,"for"one"thing"and"one"thing"only."We"overlooked"our"most"obvious."So"were"worried"
about"minority"inclusion."He"looks"at"us"and"says,"Call"the"funder."Whos"the"bank?"I"said,"PNC."He"
says,"Thats"Carol"Lawrence."I"said,"I"know"Carol!"He"says,"Well"call"her!"Tell"her"to"hold"the"money."
Until"they"prove"they"have"minority"inclusion."And"shes"the"person"that"will"want"to"see"the"numbers."
TYRON"ALI:"Thats"right."
VANESSA"BROWN:""Let"her"know."She"probably"doesnt"even"know."Shes"got"so"many"problems,"she"
could"care"less."Make"her"care."
TYRON"ALI:"When"I"was"dealing"with"the"West"Philadelphia"Financial"Institute,"Ive"known"Carol"for"
many,"many"years."She"and"Phil"Happener,"the"other"Vice"President"from"the"Center"City"branchS"that"
was"our"guy."But"with,"with"Brian,"Brian"has"enough"problems"right"now."
VANESSA"BROWN:""He"said"that"they"want"all"the"money"back."He"told"me"about"that."
TYRON"ALI:"Right."Remember"what"I"told"you?""
TYRON"ALI:"I"told"you"that"theyd"want"the"money"back."
VANESSA"BROWN:""And"I"didnt"ask"about"it."He"came"right"out."He"was"very"forthright"about"that."Uh"he"
said"that"he"thinks"he"can"salvage"things."He"was"on,"HUD"called"he"was"in"my"office."I"said,"Would"you"
like"me"to"step"out?"He"said,"No."He"was"like,"I"have"nothing"to"hide."And"he"talked"to"HUD"and"uh"
theyre"drafting,"reScrafting,"drafting"something"to"try"to"save"the"day."
TYRON"ALI:"I"wonder"if"hes"going"to"retain"his"job."
VANESSA"BROWN:""He"seems"pretty"confident"that"itll"all"work"out,"but"you"never"know"about"this"
TYRON"ALI:"They"always"are."They"always"are."Until"somebody"gets"a"phone"call"at"2:00"in"the"morning"
and"suddenly"theres"just"a"shift"in"policy."And"here"comes"the"unemployment"person."
TYRON"ALI:"Hey,"guess"what?"
11"
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T""57""March"1st,"2011"
VANESSA"BROWN:""Get"the"HR"call."
TYRON"ALI:"Yep."
VANESSA"BROWN:""Uh,"Brian"could"you"please"come"down"to"my"office?"
TYRON"ALI:"Actually,"nowadays,"you"just"get"a"text.""
(Laughing)"
VANESSA"BROWN:""Thats"pretty"messed"up."Now"Ive"heard"of"the"guys"breaking"up"with"the"girls"that"
way."
TYRON"ALI:"Yeah,"yeah."In"New"York,"its"like"the"newest"thing."
VANESSA"BROWN:""Breaking"up"by"text?"Wow."
TYRON"ALI:"Breaking"up"by"text."
VANESSA"BROWN:""Thats"terrible.""
TYRON"ALI:"This"afternoon"someone"said"to"me"that"ah,"because"were"kind"of"looking"at"some"other"
issues,"weve"got"the"school"voucher"thing"now"thats"kind"of"playing"itself"out."And"we"were"talking"
about"the"associate,"the"associate"members"for"the"Marcellus"Shale"coalition."And"one"of"your"dear"
colleagues"says,"Shes"so"nice,"if"she"would"just"learn"how"to"be"tough!"
"
(Laughing)"(Sigh)7
TYRON"ALI:"But"you"know"what,"at"the"end"of"the"day"
VANESSA"BROWN:""They"always"have"a"but"somewhere,"always."
TYRON"ALI:"Yes,"yes,"yes."
VANESSA"BROWN:""Everybodys"got"big"buts."
TYRON"ALI:"The"toughest"part"about"all"of"this"is"to"make"sure"that"you"get"what"you"need."
TYRON"ALI:"Because"theres"a"difference"between"being"able"to"survive"and"being"selfish.""
VANESSA"BROWN:""Well"heres"the"deal."They"got"all"these"buts,"but"in"all"of"the"buts,"none"of"them"
got"4.5"million"dollars"in"the"last"term"to"their"district."None"of"them"can"get"up"and"say"that."I"have"
brought"home"four"and"a"half"million"dollars."Ill"take"the"big"but."(Laughs)."
TYRON"ALI:"I"see"Mr."
12"
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T""57""March"1st,"2011"
VANESSA"BROWN:""And"some"of"them"still"dont"even"know"I"have"that"money."
TYRON"ALI:"The"odd"thing"about"it"is"that"in"your"district,"theres"so"much"room"for"development."And"
VANESSA"BROWN:""People"just"dumped"a"whole"lot"of"money"in"it."
TYRON"ALI:"Trying"to"find"the,"trying"to"find"the"right"kind"of"economic"partner"is"a"little"bit"of"a"search."
VANESSA"BROWN:""Well"heres"a"good"thing""on"Lancaster"Avenue,"they"just"opened"up"a"Rainbow"
shop,"which"is"a"national"brand"market."I"cant"believe"it."Somebody"just"called"the"other"day"and"said,"
Rainbow"just"opened"on"Lancaster"Avenue!"Im"like,"you"gotta"be"kidding"me."I"didnt"think"wed"ever"
get"them"back."We"used"to"have"Rainbow,"Sharmen"Shop,"Payless,"Rite"Aid"and"then"something"
happened"and"they"all"closed"up"in"like"a"matter"of"two"years"and"left."Killed"the"Avenue."And"now"it"
looks"like"were"coming"back"up."But"I"think"it"has"a"lot"to"do"with"Peoples"Emergency"Center."And"this"is"
in"Michelle"Brownlees"part"of"my"Castor"AvenueS"developed"a"property"that"is"right"in"the"middle,"right"
in"the"heart"of"the"business"corridor"that"is"absolutely"fabulous"real"estate."Its"very"upscale."It"looks"
nothing"like"the"rest"of"the"avenue."And"that"may"be"the"one"cap"piece"thats"catalyzing"all"of"this"to"
happen,"this"new"development"and"the"interest."And"to"our"neighborhood."
TYRON"ALI:"Did"anybody"bother"to"go"and"talk"to"the"site"manager"there,"as"to"why"they"built"there?"
VANESSA"BROWN:""I"will"when"I"get"back"to"Philadelphia"because"I"just"got"the"call"since"Ive"been"up"
here."Said"that"theyre"opening"up."But"I"sure"would"like"to"find"out"what"was"the"main"attraction,"what"
attracted"them"to"that."I"did"talk"to"Walgreens"and"Walgreens"may"be"interested"if"we"can"get"enough"
square"footage"for"them.""
TYRON"ALI:"And"the"right"tax"credits."
VANESSA"BROWN:""Yeah."And"I"believe"that"Lancaster"Avenue"was"expanded"into"the"KOZ,"the"Keystone"
Opportunity"Zone."
TYRON"ALI:"Those"Keystone"Opportunity"Zones,"dont"they"come"with"a"10Syear"tax"abatement?"
TYRON"ALI:"I"thought"it"was"a"good"incentive"but"I"never"was"certain"as"to"whether"that"was"enough."
VANESSA"BROWN:""For"smaller"projects,"its"attractive."But"sometimes"they"still"dont"have"the"capacity"
to"pull"it"all"together."I"know"that"Alpha"Office"Supply,"before"Jim"Brown,"James"Brown,"passed"away,"
was"looking"to"develop"on"Parkside"because"they"came"to"me,"they"thought"it"was"my"district."But"it"was"
Kathy"Mandarinos."And"they"said,"We"want"to"take"advantage"of"the"Keystone"Opportunity,"Dwight"
sent"us"to"talk"to"you"and"were"building."And"Im"like,"Thats"not"my"district."(Laughs)"
TYRON"ALI:"Isnt"Lee"Tolberts"office,"the"West"Philadelphia"Coalition"for"Neighborhoods"and"Business,"
isnt"that"on"Parkside"Avenue?"
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T""57""March"1st,"2011"
VANESSA"BROWN:""It"is."Its"in"the"um,"whats"the"name"of"that"building?"Millet"Parker"owns"this"whole"
giant"commercial"complex."And"he"has"the"methadone"clinic"there,"hes"making"a"killing."Hes"got"
Discovery"Charter"paying"a"ton"in"real"estate."And"then"hes"got"the"earn"centers"there."Hes"got"a"lot"of"
good,"stable"businesses"that"are"paying"him.""
TYRON"ALI:"A"methadone"clinic"is"always"good"business."
VANESSA"BROWN:""Yeah."I"mean"we"need"to"hold"them"accountable."Because"theyre"getting"away"with"
murder."Theyre"making"millions"and"not"doing"anything."No"community"reinvestment"dollars,"they"
dont"even"clean"up"the"trash"from"their"clients"out"front."We"need"to"get"in"there"and"talk"to"them."
Especially"if"I"get"redistricted"up"to"include"them.""
TYRON"ALI:"Your"um,"your"colleague"is"back"on"judiciary"as"of"yesterday"afternoon."(Laughs)"
VANESSA"BROWN:""Ron"is"something"else."
TYRON"ALI:"He"also"is"probably"going"to"have"a"need"in"the"event"that"they,"the"sex"offender"bill"that"is"
being"talked"about"now"by"Mr."Ahkmed."It,"I"just"thought"it"would"be"such"a"unique"thing,"now"that"I"
know"that"you"have"a"methadone"clinic"in"your"neighborhood"and"then"another"program"that"kind"of"
speaks"to"that"issue"with"sex"offendersS"now"that"would"make"sense."And"with"the"two"of"you"
sponsoring"something"like"that"
TYRON"ALI:"its"easy"to"get"House"support"for"something"of"that"nature."
VANESSA"BROWN:""Well"Ron"has"risen"in"his,"I"think"his"authority,"and"respect"of"the"leadership"because"
this"whole"incident"with"the"man"that"they"wanted"to"let"go,"which"they"did"not,"um"(Laughs),"I"had"
made"a"comment,"cause"they"said"that"the"youngSthis"guys"going"through"a"custody"thing,"a"domestic"
issue."The"young"lady"sent"information"to"the"press"that"he"was"an"exSoffender"working"for"the"House"of"
Representatives."And"a"reported"called"and"said,"What"is"your"policy"on"hiring"exSoffenders?"So"they"
said,"No"comment."We"dont"discuss"employees"personal"issues."And"hung"up"the"phone."So"I"said,"
You"shouldve"transferred"the"call"to"Ron"Waters."(Laughs)"And"let"him"talk"about"our"position"on"exS
offenders."He"wouldve"given"them"an"earful."You"shouldve"transferred"that"call"to"Ron!"And"then"she"
looked"at"me"and"she"said,"Uh,"you"all"havent"talked"to"Ron"about"this"staff"issue"have"you?"They"
dont"want"him"involved"because"he"would"fight"for"the"young"man."I"said,"No,"it"hasnt"gotten"to"that"
level."I"think"that"what"you"have"put"on"the"table"is"satisfactory"and"I"think"well"live"with"it."They"
suspended"him"for"four"days"instead"of"firing"him"for"what"he"did"wrong."I"said,"I"dont"think"anybodys"
going"to"complain"about"the"four"day"suspension."Hell"take"it"and"come"back"and"be"happy"that"he"still"
has"a"job."So,"no,"Rons"not"on"it."She"said,"Oh"thank"you."Im"like,"when"the"hell"did"he,"Rons"up"that"
that"they"scared"of"him?"
TYRON"ALI:"Its"a"long"story"but"Rons"made"a"new"friend."
14"
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T""57""March"1st,"2011"
VANESSA"BROWN:""So"I"see."So"I"see."So"that"was"yesterday"and"I"was"like,"Oh,"Ron"has"trump"cards."He"
just"got"reloaded."
TYRON"ALI:"(Whispering)."Thats"why"I"told"you,"if"you"need"me"to"make"that"phone"call"at"someit"will"
be"fairly"easy"to"do."
VANESSA"BROWN:""Well,"when"we"really"have"something"we"need"to"trump"it."Right"now,"theres"small"
potatoes."Theres"nothing"that"big."Ugh,"Ron"wanted"to"go"to"dinner."I"forgot"to"ask"you"if"youd"mind"if"
he"went."
TYRON"ALI:"I"wouldnt"mind."Call"him."
VANESSA"BROWN:""He"has"a"car,"he"could"meet"us"out"here."Well,"when"I"get"into"the"parking"lot."(?)"is"
telling"her"thats"where"we"are."
TYRON"ALI:"Oh,"this"is"it?"
TYRON"ALI:"Oh"I"see."
VANESSA"BROWN:""Its"not"an"island!"
(Laughing)"
SS51:23"
VANESSA"BROWN:""Alright,"let"me"call"Ron,"see"what"hes"doing."I"thought"he"was"going"back."He"says,"
No,"Im"staying."I"loves"per"diems!"(Laughs)"He"taught"me"to"have"a"dare"respect"for"them"too.""(On7the7
phone)"Hey,"are"you"still"in"your"um,"I"want"to"say"apartment."Are"you"still"in"your"room?"(Laughs)"Well,"I"
was"calling"you"about"dinner."Me"and"Ty"just"stopped"up"on"Johnstown"Road"to"Gilligans."You"want"to"
come"up"here"and"meet"us?"Gilligans"on"Johnstown"Road,"right"past"ColonialIm"thinking"right"before"
or"uh"Colonial"Park,"where"the"mall"is."Yeah."Yeah,"its"called"Gilligans."Yeah."Its"only"five"minutes"away"
from"you."Its"not"that"far."Im"near,"Im"where"Taco"Bell"and"Verizon"if"youre"coming"up."Yep."You"turn."
Yep,"its"on"your"right,"its"on"your"leftShand"side"and"Verizon"is"on"your"left."Youll"see"a"Taco"Bell"and"a"
Verizon."Its"before"you"get"to"the"mall"and"the"movie"theater."Okay."(To7TA)"Hes"coming."Its"like"a"
sports"bar"and"a"restaurant."They"got"a"pool"table."They"got"TVs"everywhere.""
SS54:22"
VANESSA"BROWN:""Can"you"handle"this?"
TYRON"ALI:"I"can"handle"it,"sure,"sure."
UM:"Hi."How"are"you?"
VANESSA"BROWN:""Hi"(Inaudible)""
15"
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T""57""March"1st,"2011"
TYRON"ALI:"Do"you"have"a"card?"Cause"you"need"this"address,"right?"
VANESSA"BROWN:""I"have"another"person"thats"coming.""
UM:"Why"dont"you"give"that"to"her?"
TYRON"ALI:"Can"we"grab"a"booth?""
UM:"Out"here"in"the"round"or"back"in"the"dining"room?"
TYRON"ALI:"Back"in"the"dining"room"is"okay."
UNIDENTIFIED"FEMALE:""Hi"
TYRON"ALI:"Hi,"how"are"you?"
UM:"There"you"go,"enjoy."
TYRON"ALI:"Thank"you."
UM:"Youre"welcome."
VANESSA"BROWN:""(On7the7phone)"No"were"still"in"Harrisburg."North."And"its"Houck."HSOSUwhat"is"it?"
HSOSUSCSKSS."Okay?"Ill"see"you"when"you"get"here."Yeah,"and"youll"know"it"when"you"see"the"Verizon"up"
on"your"left"hand"side."You"turn"at"that"light."Okay,"bye."Hell"be"here."Now"that"he"knows"what"the"heck"
hes"doing."
(Laughing)"
TYRON"ALI:"You"know"its"kind"of"interesting"because,"Ive"been"so"busy"um"cause"Ive"
WAITRESS:""Hello,"how"are"you"guys"doing"today?""
TYRON"ALI:"Good."
WAITRESS:""My"names"Jamie,"Ill"be"taking"care"of"ya."Can"I"get"you"something"to"drink?"
VANESSA"BROWN:""What"would"you"like?""
TYRON"ALI:"What"would"you"like?"
VANESSA"BROWN:""Well"you"know,"me."I"just"want"some"hot"water"with"some"lemon"wedges."
WAITRESS:""Okay."
TYRON"ALI:"Let"me"have"a"Rum"and"Coke?"
WAITRESS:""Okay."
16"
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T""57""March"1st,"2011"
TYRON"ALI:"Thanks."No,"but"its"kind"of"interesting"because"weve"got"so"many"things"going"on"and"then"
there"are"those"folks"from"Philadelphia"who"are"the"older"lobbyists"that"are"like,"Suddenly"hes"got"all"
this"clout!"He"knows"everybody."They"fail"to"realize"like,"I"was"Director"of"Governmental"affairs"for"two"
law"firms"and"Executive"Vice"President"for"one."So"its"like,"I"just"never"really"needed"to"use"what"I"have,"
you"know?"
TYRON"ALI:"Now"theres"so"much"opportunity"its"like"
TYRON"ALI:"Well,"its"kind"of"like"where"do"you"not"jump?"Because"on"the"Shale"issue,"thats"one"thing."
The"privatization"of"the"liquor"stores"thats"the"other.""The"DISK"issue"from"the"utility"companies."Then"
weve"got"a"whole"bunch"of"stuff"going"on"on"the"PUC"side.""
VANESSA"BROWN:""DISK"issue?"Like"satellite"disk?"
TYRON"ALI:"UnhSunh."DISK"actually"is,"its"a,"its"not"actually"an"acronym"because"its"incorrect,"but"it"is"
the"difference"between"a"taxSthe"label"of"a"taxS"and"the"label"surcharge"on"the"Shale"project."
VANESSA"BROWN:""Okay."
TYRON"ALI:"Because"some"people,"you"know,"the"promise"of"the"leadership"and"the"governors"is,"you"
know,"you"will"not"tax"it."So"there"could"be"a"surcharge."That"surcharge"is"so"critical"because"it"would"
help"with"the"implementation"of"redundancy"systems."If"you"had"redundancy"systems"or"actually"newer"
systems,"that"gas"explosion"in"Allentown"probably"would"not"have"happened."You"know,"so"its"um,"its"
fairly"interesting"work"if"you"can"get"it."I"see"um,"my"dear"from"Mr."Wojack"and"hes"like,"he"saw"me"the"
other"day"and"hes"like,"one"of"his"guys"John"Hawkins"is"like,"Hey!"What"are"you"doing"here"Tyron?"Im"
said,"You"know"what?"I"could"ask"you"the"same"thing."
VANESSA"BROWN:""Good"for"you."
TYRON"ALI:"And,"the"um,"that"thing"that"I"was"talking"to"you"about"with"Rosita,"it"doesnt"have"to"be"her."
Heres"what"happened"yesterday."Horsey"jammed"her"a"little"bit"and"it"wasnt"really"her"fault"because"
theres"some"people"that"hes"dealing"with"who"happened"to"know"her."And"she"felt"obligated"because"
she"did"not"want"to"create"a"problem"so"I"understood"that."
WAITRESS:""And"are"you"guys"waiting"for"some"more"before"you"order?""
VANESSA"BROWN:""Im"going"to"order"a"cheesesteak."
TYRON"ALI:"Sure."
WAITRESS:""Okay."So"just"put"that"in"a"while?"
VANESSA"BROWN:""Yes,"thank"you."
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WAITRESS:""Youre"welcome."
TYRON"ALI:"So"she"felt"obligated,"and"you"know,"I"said,"Its"okay."I"just"thought"
VANESSA"BROWN:""
"
TYRON"ALI:"Well,"you"know"I"saw"him"and"it"was,"awhile"back.""Are"you"okay?"
VANESSA"BROWN:""(Laughs)"
TYRON"ALI:"I"saw"him"a"while"back"and"hes"like,"You"know,"we"should"talk."Not"unless"youre"paying"
me"will"we"talk.""
VANESSA"BROWN:""Thats"what"Mike"said?"
TYRON"ALI:"Thats"what"I"told"him."
VANESSA"BROWN:""Oh."
TYRON"ALI:"You"know?"
VANESSA"BROWN:""Cause"thats"how"he"talks"to"everybody"so,"he"got"his"own"medicine"there."
TYRON"ALI:"These"guys,"you"know"they"try"very"hard"to"join"this"little"club,"but"unfortunately,"they"dont"
have"the"resources"to"join"this"club."So,"it"is"what"it"is."But,"if"you"look"at,"in"your"neighborhood,"see"I"
want"to"say"something"to"you"but"I"want"to"say"it"in"a"manner"that"will"help"you"to"understand"what"the"
reasons"are"for"people"like"us."This"is"your,"third?"This"will"be"the"beginning"of"your"third"term,"right?"
VANESSA"BROWN:""Second."
TYRON"ALI:"Second?"Youre"not"yet"out"of"the"woods"in"terms"of"having"people"say,"Were"not"going"to"
run"a"candidate"against"Vanessa."
VANESSA"BROWN:""Right."Which"I"understand."
TYRON"ALI:"The"reason"that"Im"saying"that"to"you"is"this:"I"had"a"meeting"two"weeks"ago,"and"
sometimes"its"difficult"for"me"to"convey"to"you,"not"just"how"much"I"understand"but"how"much"I"know,"
because"I"dont"think"you"pick"up"on"the"small"things"I"may"say"to"you."Like,"you"know,"I"might"just"
mention"I"saw"someone"today."Theres"a"reason"I"might"say"I"saw"someone"today"because"we"probably"
had"a"conversation,"and"that"conversation"probably"had"something"to"do"with"you."
VANESSA"BROWN:""Oh."
TYRON"ALI:"If"we"didnt,"I"probably"wouldnt"mention"it."Because"I"try"to"be"fairly"careful"about"what"I"
say,"who"I"say"it"in"front"of"and"in"general,"what"my"conversations"are"like."When"I"told"the"other"day"
that"I"saw"Sharif"
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TYRON"ALI:"There"was"a"reason"that"I"told"you"that."
VANESSA"BROWN:""He"was"asking"for"your"support?"
TYRON"ALI:"Right."Always."Always."And"we"have,"you"know,"full"disclosure,"we"have"always"supported"
him."But"I"feel"like"you"can"be"the"nonSprofit,"charitable"Rep"in"your"part"of"the"world."Why"do"I"say"that?"
Because"people"can"identify"with"your"story"and"so"theres"no"rule"or"regulation"that"says"you"cant"be"
involved"with"a"nonSprofit"group."And"so"you"shouldnt"just"have"one,"or"two,"or"three."One"for"domestic"
violence,"one"for"addiction"and"dependency,"one"for"victims"of"violent"crimes."One"for"
VANESSA"BROWN:""MmShmm"(Inaudible)"
TYRON"ALI:"Sure,"sure."You"know?"And"what"that"allows"you"to"docan"I"just"be"frank"with"you?"
VANESSA"BROWN:""Sure."
TYRON"ALI:"Because"I"feel"like"
VANESSA"BROWN:""At"this"point."
TYRON"ALI:"The"thing"is"I"feel"like"youre"here,"but"youve"never"actually"been"spoken"to"by"a"lobbyist"
that"understands"the"protocol"and"the"system"still."
VANESSA"BROWN:""No,"the"only"person"would"be"Morgan"Plant,"who"has"been"very"open"and"forthright"
with"me"but"thats"it."
TYRON"ALI:"I"dont"know"who"that"is.""
VANESSA"BROWN:""Stout"white"woman."She"deals"with"the"nurses"
TYRON"ALI:"Oh"from"the"union?""
VANESSA"BROWN:""She"works"with"the"um"
TYRON"ALI:"Shes"not"the"AFSCME"right?"
VANESSA"BROWN:""No."
TYRON"ALI:"No?"Okay."
VANESSA"BROWN:""She"deals"with"the"morticians,"the"cemeteries,"she"has"all"of"their"and"she"gives"me"
small"donations."
TYRON"ALI:"The"um,"when"we"talked"about"looking"at"the"casinos,"even"though"theyre"not"in"your"
backyard,"per"se,"but"theyre,"but"theyre"close"to,"theyre"in"close"proximity,"they"certainly"dont"want"
that"publicity."Some"of"their"patrons"are"going"to"come"from"your"neighborhood."Getting"them"as"an"
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economic"partner,"lets"say"they"put"up"the"seed"money"for"$5,000,"we"do"a"study"thats"sponsored"by"
Temples"SPDC,"theres"that"pot"of"money,"$1.2"million"that"we"can"actually"look"at"for"the"allocation"of"
resources"to"domestic"violence"victims."Now"youve"got"the"casinos"being"held"accountable."The"
interesting"thing"is:"how"do"you"get"them"to"move"on"that"first"$5,000?"Thats"where"your"relationships"
come"in."Someone"that"can"talk"to"them"in"a"way"that"you"cant"or"in"a"way"that"youre"not"allowed"to.""
You"know,"some"people"have"that"relationship."I"remember"you"know,"years"ago"one"senator"called"me"
up"and"he"said,"Hey"Ty,"you"know"we"need"this"or"this"is"what"were"planning"on"doing."And"ultimately,"
we"didnt"even"really"need"to"talk,"we"just"understood"each"other"
VANESSA"BROWN:""That"sounds"like"Boomer"
TYRON"ALI:"You"know,"it"was"just,"its"just"one"of"those"things,"and"its"just"one"of"those"things"where"you"
dont"even"have"to"talk"about"it,"with"another"Senator.""
VANESSA"BROWN:""Im"sad"I"didnt"get"to"meet"him."
TYRON"ALI:"Hes"a"fantastic"guy."
VANESSA"BROWN:""Thats"what"I"hear."
TYRON"ALI:"He"really,"hes"really"bright."Hes"bright.""
VANESSA"BROWN:""Everybody"says,"just"wait"till"hes"out"and"back"on"the"streets,"youll"meet"him."
TYRON"ALI:"Thats"right"(Laughs)"Thats"right."Thats"right."But"the"thing"about"it"is"that,"you"know"when,"
I"told"you,"when"I"met"you"the"first"time"and"it"was"like,"Hey,"she"has"a"golden"heart"and"people"are"
taking"advantage"of"her."Shes"getting"all"of"her"stuff"mixed"up."And"there"was"the"issue"with"the"filing"
and"so"um"
TYRON"ALI:"The"fines,"right."And"it"was"like,"okay"shes"going"through"this"now,"but"who"can"we"get"thats"
from"Philadelphia"that"I"consider"to"be"like"a"son"to"me,"who"can"I"get"to"kind"of"help"here."And"then"the"
other"person"said,"Oh"its"Ty,"okay."You"know,"and"it"was"like,"Its"Tyron."Okay"Im"the"only"person"
from"Philadelphia"doing"what"Im"doing."Theres"nobody"else."Because"people"dont"trust"anybody."You"
know?"Last"night"we"went"out,"and"I"forget"where"we"wentwe"went"to"McGraths,"and"then"we"went"
to"Stocks"on"2nd."And"the"one"Senator"said"to"me,"Look,"I"know"youve"got"the"slicked"back"hair"but"I"
trust"you."And"Im"like,"my"hair?"Okay."I"dont"try"to"be"anything"that"Im"not."You"know?"I"understand"
my"job"and"I"understand"how"to"do"it."And"beyond"that,"I"think"I"understand"the"personalities"because"
some"people,"theyre"like"processSdriven,"right?"They"understand"the"process."But"then"there"are"some"
people"who,"sort"of"understand"the"relationships."And"thats"where"I"would"like"to"see"you"go."For"you"to"
understand"the"process,"it"will"take"up"too"much"of"your"time."Itll"probably"bore"you"to"death."Thats"
what"Takeisha"is"there"for"and"whoever"else"is"there."But"the"relationships"are"the"ones"that"are"worth"it"
for"you"to"concentrate"on."You"know"any"good"lobbyist"really"functions"as"an"echo"of"what"their"clients"
are"looking"for,"but"theres"a"secondary"echo,"and"that"echo"comes"from"the"legislature."Because"you"
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cant"get"these"two"voices"to"speak"to"each"other"if"there"is"a"disconnect."So"a"lobbyist"is"really"the"
conduit"between"the"legislature"and"their"client,"whether"its"economic"or"charitableit"doesnt"matter,"
you"know?"And"it"also"helps,"like"with"your"situation"with"(???),"he"would"roll"you"under"the"bus"in"24"
seconds"flat"
TYRON"ALI:"Because"one,"youre"a"woman"and"two,"he"feels"like"he"can"do"it.""
VANESSA"BROWN:""If"he"thought"it"was"a"game,"its"done."
TYRON"ALI:"But"he"sees,"if"he"sees"someone"there"that"he"hasnt"seen"on"that"side"before."And"just"by"
the"mere"fact"of"me"being"there,"it"would"sort"of"help"him"understand,"wait"a"second,"shes"got"some"
help"now."You"know"what"I"mean?"
VANESSA"BROWN:""I"think"thats"what"saved"me,"because"people"kept"looking"over"my"shoulder"seeing"
that"big"dude"and"saying,"Wow,"if"I"mess"with"her,"Im"messing"with"him."
TYRON"ALI:"Clearly."And"again,"you"know,"I"dont"make"those"calls"very"often"where"I"actually"need"help."
But"when"you"told"me"about"the"Brian?"situation"I"said,"You"know"what?"Im"just"going"to"give"her"a"
little"taste"of"how"we"can"outSmaneuver"not"just"the"people"but"the"system."Because"you"know"its"one"
of"those"things"you"get"trained"in"doing,"you"know?"Its"like"with"Brian"suggesting"minority"participation."
Heres"the"thing:"they"did"away"with"the"minority"contractors"issues"through"M"bank,"remember"they"
dissolved"the"minority"business"enterprises"council."So"theres"no"real,"theres"no"real"legislative"
requirement."
TYRON"ALI:"So"for"him"to"even"suggest"something"like"that,"one"it"shows"that"hes"really"trying"to"resolve"
whatever"the"issue"might"be,"but"two,"it"kind"of"speaks"to"the"fact"that"hes"looking"out"for"his"people."
You"need"to"be"seen"as"someone"that"does"just"that."Thats"like"Ron."For"years,"I"mean"years,"he"and"I"
would"see"each"other"and"Id"turn"around"and"be"like,"Look"man!"Were"here!"And"hed"be"like,"I"
know."When"we"need"you"well"let"you"know."And"then,"situations"come"up,"and"hes"like,"Hey."You"
know,"are"you"guys"still,"you"know,"willing"to"help"here?"And"I"told"him,"I"said,"Look,"not"only"are"we"
willing"to"help"you,"were"willing"to"help"you"for"the"long"term."Because"in"the"House"of"Representative,"
the"Philadelphia"delegation,"a"few"of"you"are,"what"I""would"consider"to"be"new,"and"then"the"folks"that"
are"not"so"new"are"being"marginalized"because"theyre"being"put"on"committees"with"zero"impact."
Right?"So"how"do"you"get"the"new"ones"built"up,"how"do"you"get"the"older"folks"in"there"to"not"be"
marginalized?"By"not"introducing"their"ideas,"not"just"to"people"across"the"aisle,"but"to"folks"who"are"
willing"to"listen."If"you"have"two"or"three"projects"that"you"would"look"at"for"the"next"one"year,"what"
would"they"be?"
VANESSA"BROWN:""Number"one"is"the"library."You"mean"community"development"projects?"
TYRON"ALI:"MmShmm."MmShmm"
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VANESSA"BROWN:""The"library."The"52nd"Street,"Philadelphia"Free"Library"already"gave"me"the"plan."Its"a"
four"million"dollar"project"to"renovate"that"abandoned"vacant"library"that"they"have"down"the"street"
from"my"office."They"want"to"make"it"a"media"library"with"no"books,"just"technology."They"want"to"bring"
the"kids"in,"train"them"on"every"aspect"of"computer"technology."
TYRON"ALI:"How"much"money,"whats"the"capital"cost?"
VANESSA"BROWN:""Its"going"to"be"$2"million."
TYRON"ALI:"$2"million?"Can"you"set"up"a"nonSprofit"and"sponsor"maybe"a"$25,000"grant?"
VANESSA"BROWN:""And"Dwight"told"me"to"start"raising"the"money."
TYRON"ALI:"You"cant."
VANESSA"BROWN:""He"said,"he"said"I"need"to"do"it"as"a"foundation"and"start"going"to"folks"and"letting"
them"know"that"this"is"my"new"pet"project."
TYRON"ALI:"You"can"do"a"501c6."Set"it"up"as"a,"as"either"a"coalition"of"partners"and"vendors,"but"you"
need"the"initial"seed"money."If"you"sponsored"it"with,"is"that"his"district?"
VANESSA"BROWN:""They"have"$2"million."
TYRON"ALI:"Who"has"it?"
VANESSA"BROWN:""The"library."I"need"to"match"it.""
TYRON"ALI:"So"its"actually"a"$4"million"project."
VANESSA"BROWN:""Right."Its"a"$4"million"dollar"project"but"we"need"$2"million""
TYRON"ALI:"So,"they"can"create"a"P3"relationship."But"would"they"support,"would"they"support"that"kind"
of"a"relationship."See,"this"is"the"other"thing,"when"youre"looking"at"projects"in"excess"of"$100,000,"the"
requirements,"the"financial"audit"requirements,"are"vastly"different."So"in"setting"up"a"p3"relationship"
VANESSA"BROWN:""Now,"I"dont"know"what"P3"is."
TYRON"ALI:"Public"Private"Partnership."
SS1:13:14SS"
WAITRESS:""Can"I"get"you"guys"anything"else"right"now?"
TYRON"ALI:"Can"I"get"a"diet"coke?"
WAITRESS:""Is"Diet"Pepsi"ok?"
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TYRON"ALI:"Yeah"thats"fine,"thanks."Um,"part"of"the"issue"there,"is"who"is"going"to"be"your"partner."You"
need"a"bank,"right?"You"also"need"a"research"facility."Thats"always"helpful."Like"a"University"for"example.""
Therese,"I"forget"her"last"name,"you"know"who"Im"talking"about"right?"
TYRON"ALI:"She"and"my"dear"friend"from"Temples"SPDC,"because"he"got"me"my"first"job"with"a"venture"
capital"group"ever,"so"he"always"thinks"that"I"owe"him,"which"I"do"because"I"learned"so"much"in"a"year,"
not"just"financial"operations"but"really"how"to"invest"in"companies"and"make"them"do"some"very"
interesting"things."Partnering"with"those"folks"is"one"thing,"if"they"dont"behave,"a"lobbyist"is"a"tool"to"
make"people"behave."We"are"like"secondary"chiefs"of"staff."You"know"you"have"your"operational"chiefs"
of"staff,"and"then"you"have"your"folks"who"are"resource"chief"of"staff."I"mean"at"the"end"of"the"day"we"
understand"there"is"no"quid"pro"quo,"but"the"ability"for"you"to"get,"or"to"be"able"to"draw"people"to"listen"
to"what"you"have"to"say"and"for"them"to"have"the"resources,"those"are"virtually"impossible"things"to"get"
in"todays"economy."So"you"need"to"pick"your"partners"well."Im"going"to"tell"you"something."
(Whispering)"Tony"Payton."Problems,"big"time."You"know,"and"uh,"well"see."Because"theyve"already"
enlisted"my"help"to"look"at,"you"know,"who"has"the"potential."And"I"sat"him"down"because"I"dont"pull"
any"punches."
TYRON"ALI:"I"sat"him"down"last"night"and"I"said,"Listen,"you"know"me,"youve"known"me"for"a"long"time."
You"know"the"reason"Im"sitting"you"down"is"because"I"have"something"important"to"say"to"you."This"is"
not"four"years"ago."We"dont"care"how"much"money"youve"brought"to"your"district."Be"advised."It"is"
what"it"is,"you"know?"And"the"reason"that"thats"happening"is"because"some"folks,"both"house"and"
senate"believe"that"Mr."Payton"is"instigating"for"their"removal,"their"involuntary"retirement.""
VANESSA"BROWN:""Hes"too"busy."He"needs"to"stay"in"his"own"lane.""
TYRON"ALI:"You"know,"um,"again,"Im"sharing"this"with"you"because"its"important,"you"know,"its"sort"of"
a"new"sort"of"friendship"and"so"to"understand"how"I"operate,"why"I"do"the"things"that"I"do."Because"I"
know"sometimes"its"going"to"look"like,"did"he"really"just"say"that?"Did"he"really"just"do"that?"Its"because"
were"trying"to"accomplish"a"task"that"is"not"a"small"thing."Not"a"small"thing,"you"know?"And"at"the"end"
of"the"day"
VANESSA"BROWN:"""I"think"Oliver"wants"Tony"Paytons"job."Hes"just"waiting"for"his"election."
TYRON"ALI:"Not"just"him,"its"an"entire"group."
VANESSA"BROWN:""Wow."Well"he"pissed"off"the"parking"authority,"I"know"that."
TYRON"ALI:"MmShmm."Its"in"my"bag"actually."
VANESSA"BROWN:""I"know"he"was"on"Dwights"team,"because"he"was"Dwights"golden"child,"his"guard."
TYRON"ALI:"Im"going"to"share"something"with"you."It"might"have"been"that"way"it"was"initially"
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WAITRESS:""Is"your"appetizer"okay?"
VANESSA"BROWN:""Yes."
WAITRESS:""Do"you"want"another"rum"and"coke?"
TYRON"ALI:"No,"Ive"got"this"thank"you."
WAITRESS:""And"are"you"guys"going"to"wait"until"the"other"people"get"here"to"order"your"dinners?"Is"that"
what"youre"doing?"
VANESSA"BROWN:""Do"you"want"to"wait"for"Ron?"
TYRON"ALI:"Yeah!"
WAITRESS:""Okay."
SS1:18:06SS"
VANESSA"BROWN:""I"think"she"wanted"us"to"order"right"away."It"must"not"be"her"night."
TYRON"ALI:"What"I"was"going"to"say"to"you"is"that,"because"hes"on"transportation"now,"he"has"new"
objectives."What"he"doesnt"realize"is"that"when"you"run"around,"word"gets"around."The"one,"one"of"
your"colleagues"said"to"me"the"other,"I"guess"it"was"Thursday,"shes"like,"You"know,"Ty,"they"all"come"
and"talk"to"me,"and"I"listen,"and"I"smile,"and"I"laugh."But"I"dont"believe"a"word"any"of"them"says."When"
you"say"it"to"me,"I"know"where"youre"getting"yours"from."Sure"its"true,"I"said."(Laughs)"And"I"am"very"
low"key"about"it."I"dont,"you"know,"look"at"where"we"are,"were"in"the"middle"of"nowhere,"for"example."
At"Gilligans"Island."
(Laughing)"
VANESSA"BROWN:""Youll"never"live"that"down"
TYRON"ALI:"No"I"will"not."I"like"it,"its"nice."Its"nice."
VANESSA"BROWN:""Its"clean,"its"quiet."Theres"nobody"in"here."
TYRON"ALI:"Yeah,"its"good"to"know"places"like"this."The"only"reason"Im"kind"of"harping"on"Mangia"Qui"is"
because"one"of"the"ladies"that"we"were"out"with"last"night,"she"was"like,"Oh"you"have"to"go"there!"And"
Im"like,"Okay,"okay."
VANESSA"BROWN:""Well"next"time"well"go"there."
TYRON"ALI:"Next"time"well"go"there."
VANESSA"BROWN:""Tonight"I"just"wanted"
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T""57""March"1st,"2011"
TYRON"ALI:"To"be"happy."
VANESSA"BROWN:""Maybe"I"was"just"selfish."Yeah,"not"have"to"keep"looking."
TYRON"ALI:"With"your"potato"skins."
VANESSA"BROWN:""Well"that"too."I"think"I"just"was"being"selfish."Maybe"I"just"wanted"your"attention."
TYRON"ALI:"(Laughs)"
VANESSA"BROWN:""Didnt"want"to"share"it"with"the"world"walking"by"you"like,"Hey!!"Hey!"
TYRON"ALI:"(Laughs)"You"know"whats"funny"is"that"there"actually,"I"was"walking"somewhere"with"my"
sister"and"she"said"to"me,"shes"like"Is"there"anybody"on"this"street"that"you"dont"know?"And"Im"like,"
Well,"yeah,"there"are"a"few"people."But,"again,"even"with"Ron"coming"here,"he"would"be"fairly"curious"
as"to"us"sitting"here."
VANESSA"BROWN:""Thats"why"I"invited"him"up"here."
TYRON"ALI:"You"know?"Because,"again,"one"of"those"things"you"know,"he"was"made"to"understand"a"few"
things."Because"Ive"only"been"up"here"for"four"months,"yet,"some"fairly"important"projects"have"found"
their"way"to"my"desk,"you"know?"So."
VANESSA"BROWN:""Where"is"your"desk?"
TYRON"ALI:"In"Philly."
VANESSA"BROWN:""You"dont"even"carry"a"brief"case"around."
TYRON"ALI:"No,"no,"no."You"know"I"own"Cambria"Legal"Center"in"Philadelphia."I"own"that."We"have"our"
office,"its"been"built"out"here"in"Harrisburg."Weve"got"an"office"in"Florida"too."Its"not"just,"its"not"just"
one"little"thing."The"problem"is,"I"think"I"may"need"to"move"up"here"
VANESSA"BROWN:""We"would"like"that."
TYRON"ALI:"But"I"really,"well"
VANESSA"BROWN:""It"doesnt"matter.""
TYRON"ALI:"No,"it"doesnt."
VANESSA"BROWN:""Because"youre"making"money."
TYRON"ALI:"Thats"right."And"thats"not"being"selfish,"thats"me."That"is"me."And"it"has"nothingVanessa,"
Ill"tell"you"something."I"love"my"job."I"love"what"I"do."I"love"how"I"do"it."I"love"the"people"I"work"with."But"
at"the"end"of"the"day,"do"you"know"how"difficult"it"is"to"get"someone"to"really"understand"what"you"do?"
VANESSA"BROWN:""Oh"yeah."
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TYRON"ALI:"Its"difficult."Its"difficult."Because"of"the"long"hours,"I"mean"yesterday"I"didnt"get"home"until"
three"oclock"in"the"morning."
VANESSA"BROWN:""You"went"all"the"way"back"to"Philly?"
TYRON"ALI:"I"did."I"did."And"its"hard"because"someone"will"say"to"you,"Oh"youre"out"having"a"good"
time."
VANESSA"BROWN:""Its"work."I"get"that"all"the"time.""
TYRON"ALI:"Its"work."
VANESSA"BROWN:""Youre"out"there"having"such"a"good"time."Thats"my"job."What?"Do"you"want"me"to"
get"out"there"and"tell"people,"I"dont"want"to"be"bothered"with"you"today?"I"have"to"be"cordial"and"
happy.""
TYRON"ALI:"Not"only"that,"you"have"to"be"aware"of"what"they"want.""
VANESSA"BROWN:""MmShmm,"yeah."
TYRON"ALI:"That"takes"a"certain"level"of"being"awake.""
VANESSA"BROWN:""Thats"right."
TYRON"ALI:"In"terms"of"being"
VANESSA"BROWN:""Oh,"and"not"to"miss"the"signals"when"theyre"giving"them"to"you."Thats"the"other"
thing."
TYRON"ALI:"Depends"on"the"signals."(Laughs)"Some"signals,"I"tell"you"something."I"guess"it"was,"what"is"
today,"Tuesday?"
VANESSA"BROWN:""Youre"not"having"(?)"
TYRON"ALI:"No.""
VANESSA"BROWN:""Its"not"your"thing?"
TYRON"ALI:"On"Monday."No,"its"not"that"its"not"my"thing,"you"know"I"have"to"be"in"the"mood."Monday"
we"were,"where"were"we?"
VANESSA"BROWN:""You"didnt"even"look"at"the"menu."Youre"gonna"be"so"prejudice"to"my"little"place."
TYRON"ALI:"Why"do"you"think"I"wouldnt"like"a"place"like"this?"
VANESSA"BROWN:""Hmm?"
TYRON"ALI:"You"think"that"Im"too"stiff?"(Laughs)"
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T""57""March"1st,"2011"
VANESSA"BROWN:""I"dont"know"that"its"stiff."Its"just"so"privileged."
TYRON"ALI:"(Laughs)"Its"not,"its"not"that."
VANESSA"BROWN:""I"dont"blame"you"though,"youre"just"privileged."
TYRON"ALI:"I"have"to,"ya"know."We"used"to"go"to"Cook"Ems."No"one"even"believes"that"I"know"where"
Cook"Ems"is."Do"you"know"Cook"Ems?"
VANESSA"BROWN:""(Laughs)"You"cant"even"say"it"out"your"mouth."
TYRON"ALI:"Right,"right,"right.""
VANESSA"BROWN:""(Laughs)"They"go"like,"What??"
TYRON"ALI:"I"used"to"own"a"nightclub"so"how"stiff"can"I"be?"You"know?"
VANESSA"BROWN:""I"hear"the"LCB"is"hitting"all"the"bars"in"Philly"again."
TYRON"ALI:"They"already"started."One"of"our"clients,"they"um"we"had"a"small"problem"with"one"of"our"
clients"a"few"months"ago."They"raided"the"Oasis,"they"took"away"their"smoking"permit"from"penthouse,"
so"we"were,"we"were"trying"to"figure"out"where"all"this"was"coming"from"and"once"we"figured"it"out,"we"
were"like,"Oh,"okay."I"see"Mr."Verve"has"resigned"his"post,"or"will"shortly."And"thats"good,"thats"good"
for"everybody"who"owns"a"bar.""
VANESSA"BROWN:""Yeah,"I"agree"because"thats"my"familys"business."
TYRON"ALI:"In"what"sense?"
VANESSA"BROWN:""The"pub."30"years."
TYRON"ALI:"Really?"
VANESSA"BROWN:""The"Baby"Grand"on"Germantown"Avenue."
TYRON"ALI:"The"Baby"Grand.""
VANESSA"BROWN:""My"moms"the"manager,"my"uncle"owns"it.""
TYRON"ALI:"Wheres"it"next"to?"Im"trying"to"place"it.""
VANESSA"BROWN:""Wayne"Junction."The"train"station"is"there."
TYRON"ALI:"Yeah,"where"the"cabs"park."Right."
VANESSA"BROWN:""Theyre"at"the"4400"block,"theyre"right"down"the"street.""
TYRON"ALI:"Oh"my."
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T""57""March"1st,"2011"
VANESSA"BROWN:""Whats"that,"Berkley"Street?"
TYRON"ALI:"MmShmm."
VANESSA"BROWN:""Is"that"Berkley"that"comes"out"to"Germantown?"
TYRON"ALI:"So"do"you"go?"
TYRON"ALI:"No."Do"you?"You"know"my"day"care"center"is"around"the"corner?"
VANESSA"BROWN:""Really?"
TYRON"ALI:"Yes."I"own"Logan"Child"Care."
VANESSA"BROWN:""Okay.""
TYRON"ALI:"Thats"why"I"find"it"so"funny"when"people"are"like,"Oh"youre"so"""People"dont"really"know"
me.""
TYRON"ALI:"No,"we"have"a"good"time."Usually"have"a"good"time"anyway."I"was"telling"brother"man"when"
he"gets"here,"Im"like,"Look,"when"were"done,"were"going"to"go"smoke."He"starts"laughing."I"said,"No"
Ron,"not"that."
VANESSA"BROWN:""Thats"what"he"would"prefer."
TYRON"ALI:"Yeah"(Laughs)"Right?"
VANESSA"BROWN:""I"dont"know"anything"about"that.""
(Laughs)"
VANESSA"BROWN:""But"I"read"the"paper."
TYRON"ALI:"Right."But"even"him"it"took"him"a"second"to"say,"oh"this"is"it?"Like,"yeah,"okay,"well"deal"with"
this."Because,"unfortunately,"you"know"like"Hughes"for"example."He"is"at"a"crossroads"because"hes"
become"third"fiddle"and"now"he"doesnt"know"what"to"do"about"it."Now"he"was"dealing"with"some"folks"
who"were"really"trying"to"help"themselves"instead"of"help"him."And"we"talked."And"he"was"like,"Oh"no"
you"know,"that"faade"is"there"to"keep"the"public"in"play."And"I"saw"him,"when"did"I"see"him?"A"month"
ago."And"was"like,"Hey"Ty,"can"you"call"me?"And"then"two"weeks"go"by"and"hes"like,"Hey"Ty!"Can"you"
call"me?"Im"not"going"to"call"you?"For"what?"Weve"already"selected"who"were"going"to"work"with,"
at"least"for"the"next"12"months."Im"done."I"know"where"you"are."I"know"where"Ron"is."I"know"where"our"
other"guys"are."I"know"where"the"other"lady"is."You"know,"weve"only"tried"to"touch"base"with"Rosita"
because"I"was"offered"a"deal"to"bring"in"the"gold"jewelry"to"be"sold"in"the"casino."That"is"the"only"reason"
that"were"still"in"touch"with"Rosita."And"even"if"that"doesnt"come"to"pass,"because"its"a"lot,"you"know?"
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T""57""March"1st,"2011"
And"the"person"whos"creating"the"deal"for"us,"mm,"I"cant"say"that"I"really"trust"him."So"in"the"next"two"
months,"if"I"dont"see"what"I"need,"we"cut"him"off,"we"cut"her"off."But"you"need"not"to"get"so"down"about"
things."Oh,"your"attorney"at"Cozen"OConnor,"Omen"Adam?"What"is"it?"
VANESSA"BROWN:""Adam"Bowen."
TYRON"ALI:"Adam"Bowen."See!"Right,"we"will"be"having"a"conversation"in"the"next"couple"of"weeks."
VANESSA"BROWN:""MmShmm""
TYRON"ALI:"Why"would"I"know"that?"
VANESSA"BROWN:""I"dont"know."(Inaudible)"Youre"turning"into"EF"Hutton"
TYRON"ALI:"Whats"this?"
VANESSA"BROWN:""Youre"turning"into"EF"Hutton.""
TYRON"ALI:"In"what"sense?"
VANESSA"BROWN:""When"you"speak"I"just"say"hmm"(Laughs)"
TYRON"ALI:"Oh.""
VANESSA"BROWN:""Let"me"make"sure"Ron"didnt"get"lost,"because"he"shouldve"been"here"by"now.""
TYRON"ALI:"Oh,"(Sigh)"Knowing"him,"hes"probably,"Hey"Ty"
VANESSA"BROWN:""(Laughs)"Thats"funny."
TYRON"ALI:"But"I"love"him"to"death."Hes"so"funny"though."He"really"is."
VANESSA"BROWN:""He"went"to"me"today,"I"said"whatever"dirty"old"thing"is"on"your"mind,"remove"it."He"
started"laughing."I"said"its"all"over"your"face."(On7the7phone)"Are"you"okay?"Okay."I"wanted"to"make"sure"
you"didnt"get"lost."
TYRON"ALI:"Or"sidetracked."Call"up"and"say,"Ron"are"you"lost"or"sidetracked?"You"can"let"me"know."
VANESSA"BROWN:""MmShmm."Some"woman"calls,"thats"the"end"of"that."
TYRON"ALI:"MmShmm."(Laughs)."Theres"one"place"here"I"think"I"want"to"go."The"Red"Door?"
VANESSA"BROWN:""Yeah?"
TYRON"ALI:"Yeah,"I"havent"been"there."When"they"took"me"there"yesterday"they"were"like,"Oh,"when"
youre"in"a"situation"where"you"need"to"meet"with"someone,"and"its"really,"really"quiet."And"Im"like,"
Okay."I"dont"like"to"get"told"what"to"do.""
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TYRON"ALI:"Everybody"has"a"suggestion."Kissing"butt"cause"they"know"whats"up.""
VANESSA"BROWN:""(Laughs)"(Inaudible)""
TYRON"ALI:"Its"been"going"on"for"some"time"now."Its"only"because,"I"guess"its"only"because"weve"got"
our"hands"wrapped"around"so"much"and"theres"so"much"at"stake."
VANESSA"BROWN:""Want"to"look"at"the"menu?"
TYRON"ALI:"Im"sure"I"know"whats"on"it.""
VANESSA"BROWN:""After"this"meal,"youre"gonna"go"have"dinner."(Laughs)."
TYRON"ALI:"You"know,"if"you"dont"stop."
VANESSA"BROWN:""My"goodness."(Laughs)."
TYRON"ALI:"Ill"tell"you"something"
VANESSA"BROWN:""Are"you"staying"here"tonight?"
TYRON"ALI:"No."I"never"stay.""
VANESSA"BROWN:""You"dont"drive"back,"your"driver"drives"back"right?"
TYRON"ALI:"Well,"yeah,"yeah."Its"
VANESSA"BROWN:""What"does"he"do"while"hes"here?"
TYRON"ALI:"I"have"a"place."But,"I"find"this"town"to"be"toxic."No"I"want"to"go"back"home,"sleep"in"my"own"
bed,"watch"my"own"TV,"talk"on"my"own"phone"and"hang"out."Up"here,"Harrisburg"is"um,"an"acquired"
taste."
TYRON"ALI:"I"know"it"must"have"taken"some"use,"taken"some"getting"used"to"right?"
VANESSA"BROWN:""Im"still"not"used"to"it."
TYRON"ALI:"Ok."Thats"honesty."
VANESSA"BROWN:""I"almost,"when"they"ended"the"session"early,"I"almost"got"in"car"and"went"home.""
TYRON"ALI:"Today?"
VANESSA"BROWN:""It"was"very"hard"not"to"do"that."It"was"12:30"when"he"said,"No"more"votes."I"went"
downstairs,"and"I"got"in"my"car"and"I"started"it"up."And"I"said,"Man,"I"oughta"hit"that"turnpike"and"not"
look"back."And"I"said,"Aw,"I"gotta"come"right"back"up"tomorrow."Ill"stay."
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TYRON"ALI:"Its,"you"know,"its"one"of"those"things,"you"know"I"was"told,"Yo,"Ty."One"of"the"things"you"
have"to"understand"when"youre"in"Harrisburg"is"you"know,"you"can"be"only"so"effective"if"youre"not"
white."Okay."You"know"I"think"the"legislative"black"caucus"is"as"unimportant"as"they"are"
unimportant."I"said,"Well"
VANESSA"BROWN:""That"sounds"like"Angel"Cruz."(Laughs)""
TYRON"ALI:"No,"it"wasnt"him."
VANESSA"BROWN:""You"know"he"resigned"from"the"Caucus,"did"Ron"tell"you"about"that?"
TYRON"ALI:"You"know"what,"heres"the"truth:"its"probably"better."
VANESSA"BROWN:""Yeah,"cause"hes"acid.""
TYRON"ALI:"I"dont,"I"dont"know."Yesterday"with"Maria"getting"ousted"from"the"board"
WAITRESS:""Are"you"two"doing"okay?"
VANESSA"BROWN:""Yeah,"were"fine."Our"guest"is"just"about"here."
WAITRESS:""Okay.""
TYRON"ALI:"SSFrom"the"DRP."I"laughed"and"laughed"and"laughed"and"laugh"when"Carmen"was"like,"Did"
you"guys"know?"Sure!"But"I"dont"have"to"tell"you."Because"Im"a"republican"and"youre"a"Democrat,"
right?"We"dont"play"with"each"other"so"Were"not"in"the"same"sandbox."Unfortunate."I"just"want"to"
see"who"shes"going"to"wind"up"running"against"Tony.""
VANESSA"BROWN:""Shes"a"funny"(Inaudible)""
TYRON"ALI:"Well"they"act"like"theyre"seasoned"politicians."When"theyre"simply"seasoned"selfish"people."
Thats"all"it"is.""
VANESSA"BROWN:""MmShmm."Her"and"her"husband.""
TYRON"ALI:"You"know,"when"I"was"fairly"young,"you"know"someone"once"told"me"that"if"youre"not"being"
used,"youre"of"no"use."And"I"guess,"you"know,"I"fell"into"that"category"for"a"long"time."And"eventually"
you"find"yourself"becoming"selfSaware."Like,"wait"a"second,"if"youre"getting"$300,000"in"this"grant,"how"
come"Im"getting"$12,000?"What?"That"doesnt"sound"right."Theres"no"balance"of"economics"here."
TYRON"ALI:"Thats"why"I"want"you"to"think"long"and"hard"and"I"need"you"to"do"it"quickly."In"the"next"two"
weeks."What"kind"of"nonSprofit"are"we"going"to"set"up?"Who"we"can"get"$25,000"from"to"do"the"first"
study?"And"then"we"can"either"form"the"partnership"with"someone"huge"
VANESSA"BROWN:""What"about"the"CDC?"
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TYRON"ALI:"Which"one?"See"heres"the"thing."Do"you"know"the"difference"between"the"CDC"and"the"
CDFI?"
VANESSA"BROWN:""No."CDFI"is"a"financial"
TYRON"ALI:"Institute."And"they"get"to"handle"their"own"funds."CDC"needs"a"fiduciary."I"dont"like"anybody"
handling"my"money."
VANESSA"BROWN:""Not"unless"the"CDC"is"a"501c3?"
TYRON"ALI:"If"the"CDC"is"a"501c3,"Ill"have"to"check"it,"but"I"believe"the"same"rules"apply."
VANESSA"BROWN:""You"know"what,"yes,"youre"right."Because"we"have"Peoples"Emergency"Center."And"
then"we"have"Peoples"Emergency"Center"CDC"but"the"Peoples"Emergency"Center"handles"the"funds."
Absolutely"right."Absolutely"right."They"handle"the"funds."Interesting."So,"I"talked"to"community"council"
two"years"ago"for"mental"health"and"retardation."
TYRON"ALI:"MmShmm."
VANESSA"BROWN:""And"you"asked"me"for"the"large"institutes"and"they"handle"multiSmillions"of"dollars"
of"contracts."
TYRON"ALI:"MmShmm."
VANESSA"BROWN:""and"for"mental"health."And"I"said,"Why"dont"you"start"a"CDC?"But"he"didnt"have"
the"capacity"and"didnt"know"how"to"do"that."I"said,"Because"you"could"get"a"lot"of"money"funneled"to"
you"from"CDC"to"help"the"surrounding"neighborhood."You"have"all"this"transient"community"coming"in"
through"this"community,"but"you"really"need"to"do"something"for"the"mental"health"issues"and"
surrounding."You"need"to"help"with"blight,"we"can"get"money"to"do"neighborhood"revitalization,"blight"
elimination,"safety."We"can"do"street"lighting."All"that"kind"of"things"we"can"run"through"here"for"an"
organization."So"thats"something"to"think"about."
TYRON"ALI:"How"much"money"would"be"associated"with"a"project"such"as"that"in"terms"of"startup"costs?"
VANESSA"BROWN:""I"would"like"to"see"a"corporate"sponsor"who"would"give"$100,000"every"year"for"ten"
years."
TYRON"ALI:"Um,"Dwight"did"that"with"Home"Depot."I"remember"that"
VANESSA"BROWN:""We"have"Lowes"in"our"community.""
TYRON"ALI:"Lowes."At"some"point,"and"I"guess"it"comes"with"your"level"of"comfort,"but"at"some"point,"
when"you"realize"that"I"will"get"things"done"for"you,"having"the"ability,"the"empowered"ability"to"go"and"
negotiate"on"your"behalf,"thats"the"key."That"is"the"key."
SS01:38:29"
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VANESSA"BROWN:""I"need"to"look"myself."
TYRON"ALI:"Im"actually"just"looking"for"the"address."I"think"its"10"Houck."
VANESSA"BROWN:""She"just"said"10"Houck"Road."
TYRON"ALI:"Oh"its"road,"okay.""
VANESSA"BROWN:""So"youre"going"to"have"him"pick"you"up"from"here."
TYRON"ALI:"I"dont"know."Well"see."Im"just"putting"it"in"here"so"
VANESSA"BROWN:""Im"not"going"to"bring"you"back?"
TYRON"ALI:"Vanessa,"trust"me"when"I"tell"you:"that"is"the"last"thing"Im"worried"about."
VANESSA"BROWN:""Let"me"find"out"you"have"breadcrumbs,"throwing"them"out"the"window.""
TYRON"ALI:"(Laughs)"No."
VANESSA"BROWN:""Where"is"this"girl"taking"me?"Gilligans"island?"Damn"Gilligans"(Laughs)""
TYRON"ALI:"Gilligans"island."Ive"neverand"I"wouldve"never"guessed.""
TYRON"ALI:"Lowes"is"perhaps"a"good"fit."Anything"with"national"brand"awareness"is"a"good"fit."But"you"
have"to"be"able"to"apply"pressure."When"you"talk"about"the"people"you"have"in"the"street"on"your"street"
teams,"thats"physically"helpful,"but"not"really."Being"able"to"propose"legislation"that"imposes"taxes"or"
fines,"for"specific"issues"as"it"relates"to"commercial"businesses"is"always"helpful."Its"almost"like,"you"are"
legislatively"always"threatening"the"balance."And"that"brings"them"to"the"table.""
VANESSA"BROWN:""He"said"Gilligans?"Where"the"hell"are"you?"(Laughs)""
TYRON"ALI."It"brings,"you"know"it"brings"them"to"the"table"without"you"soliciting,"you"know,"Hey"we"
need"this,"we"need"that."Theres"a"way"to"bring"them"without"even"talking"to"them."
VANESSA"BROWN:""MmShmm."Okay."
TYRON"ALI:"I"cant"imagine"that"you"have"notall"this"time"youve"been"on"your"own,"by"yourself."
VANESSA"BROWN:""Why"cant"you"imagine"that?"
TYRON"ALI:"Because,"its"hard"to"manage"the"process,"manage"the"people,"manage"the"operation"if"
youre"by"yourself."Poor"Takeisha,"she"doesnt"know"if"shes"coming"or"going."Shes"so"scatterbrained"its"
like"
VANESSA"BROWN:""I"talked"to"her"today."I"said,"You"need"another"person"in"here"Get"rid"of"the"intern."
SS01:41:18"
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TYRON"ALI:"There"he"is!"(Laughs)"Looking"all"smooth."Whats"up,"sir?"
RON"WATERS:""(Laughs)"Hey."Okay"man."How"you"doin?"You"alright.""
TYRON"ALI:"Good."Good,"good."
VANESSA"BROWN:""I"know"he"wants"to"sit"here.""
(Laughs)"
TYRON"ALI:"Oh"okay."
VANESSA"BROWN:""I"know"you,"you"want"to"sit"next"to"the"lady.""
RON"WATERS:""She"got"me"pegged"man."She"got"you"beat"man.""
(Laughs)"
WAITRESS:""Hello.""
RON"WATERS:""Hi."
WAITRESS:""Can"I"get"you"something"to"drink?"
RON"WATERS:""What"are"yall"drinking?"I"know"what"I"want,"I"want"a"hot"tea."
WAITRESS:""Hot"tea?"
RON"WATERS:""Yes."
TYRON"ALI:"As"soon"as"you"show"up"you"get"the"royal"treatment."Pull"out"the"chair"for"you,"stuff"like"
that.""When"youre"the"chairman,"thats"what"happens,"right?"
VANESSA"BROWN:""Hes"so"spoiled."Hes"so"rotten."
(Laughs)"
RON"WATERS:""Yeah"and"dont"I"love"it."(Laughs)"Yeah,"you"know"me"and"Vanessa"got"a"thing"going"on,"
you"know"what"I"mean?"
TYRON"ALI:"Oh"okay."(Laughs)."Were"among"friends"so"its"alright."How"was"the"thing"last"night?"It"went"
okay?"
RON"WATERS:""It"was"very"nice."The"one"with"Bob"Bogle?"
TYRON"ALI:"Want"to"hear"something"funny?"
RON"WATERS:""MmShmm"
TYRON"ALI:"So"he"comes"backand"he"finds"out"hes"been"ousted"from"the"board"of"the"DRPA."(Laughs)"
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RON"WATERS:""He"has?"Who?"
TYRON"ALI:"Everybody."
RON"WATERS:""Bob"Bogle?"He"was"on"the"DRP?"Oh"wow."I"didnt"know"that."Johnny"Docs"people."
TYRON"ALI:"So"now"folks"are"
RON"WATERS:""Cause"there"was"some"folks"that"came"up"and"were"talking"about"Johnny"Doc,"mentioned"
the"DRP,"mentioned"that"they"wereSS""
TYRON"ALI:"So"is"your"buddy"over"in"Frankford."Maria,"Maria."(Laughs)"
RON"WATERS:""Who?"The"council"woman?"Yeah,"shes"gone.""
TYRON"ALI:"I"told"Juan,"one"day"youre"going"to"see"me"and"youre"going"to"be"struggling,"cause"youre"
going"to"want"to"talk"to"me"and"youre"not"going"to"be"able"to."That"day"has"come."
RON"WATERS:""Yeah."Yeah."
TYRON"ALI:"We"sure"have"suffered"right?"
RON"WATERS:""We"definitely"did."
TYRON"ALI:"We"have"suffered."So"now"its"our"turn."
RON"WATERS:""Chances"go"around."(Inaudible)"used"to"always"say,"Crosby"says"everybody"gets"their"
turn,"you"just"have"to"live"long"enough.""
WAITRESS:""Did"you"want"a"couple"of"minutes"then"to"look"over"the"menu?"
RON"WATERS:""Oh"no,"Im"okay."
WAITRESS:""Oh,"youre"not"dining?"
RON"WATERS:""But"you"know"what"
TYRON"ALI:"You"should"eat"something."Dont"not"eat"anything,"make"sure"you"eat.""
RON"WATERS:""What"do"you"have"that"is"a"popular"item"for"like"an"appetizer?"
WAITRESS:""Appetizer?"The"crab"and"spinach"dip,"the"Gilligans"alternative,"our"crabSstuffed"mushrooms."
RON"WATERS:""No,"I"dont"want"no"mushrooms."What"was"the"first"thing"you"said?"
WAITRESS:""Crab"and"spinach"dip?"
TYRON"ALI:"No"he"wants"some"cod.""
(Laughs)"
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RON"WATERS:""Cod?"(Inaudible)"
TYRON"ALI:"Right."
RON"WATERS:""What"did"yall"eat?"
TYRON"ALI:"We"havent"eaten."
RON"WATERS:""Oh."
VANESSA"BROWN:""Give"us"another"minute."We"havent"even"ordered."We"havent"decided"yet.""
RON"WATERS:""Oh,"you"havent"ordered?"
VANESSA"BROWN:""No,"we"were"waiting"for"you."The"guest"of"honor.""
TYRON"ALI:"We"were"waiting"for"your"highness,"your"highness.""
VANESSA"BROWN:""The"royal"hiney.""
RON"WATERS:""I"was"waiting"to"see"this"guy"in"the"morning."
VANESSA"BROWN:""He"didnt"hear"that"one.""
RON"WATERS:""I"heard"you,"your"royal"hiney.""
VANESSA"BROWN:""(Laughing)"
TYRON"ALI:"Yeah!"We"were"out"last"night"til"3"brother.""
RON"WATERS:""Yeah?""
TYRON"ALI:"Oh,"I"was"tired."I"was"tired."But"Ill"be"there"in"the"morning."
RON"WATERS:""I"got"back"um,"I"dont"know"what"time"I"got"back?"Around"11:30?"
VANESSA"BROWN:""You"drove"all"the"way"to"DC"and"back"by"yourself?"
TYRON"ALI:"Yeah."
RON"WATERS:""Yeah."DC"is"closer"to"here"than"it"is"from"Philly."
RON"WATERS:""About"20"miles"closer."And"its,"no,"no"toll"booths,"its"amazing"how"that"is."Its"straight"
road.""But"I"felt"energized"after"that"thing."I"felt"good."Bob"Bogle"was"happy."I"was"glad"to"see"Senator"
Casey,"we"go"back."Margowitz"sent"one"her"staff"people"there."Marion"Tasker"was"supposed"to"come,"
they"called"her"name"out."But"I"was"happy"to"be"there"and"speak"on"behalf"of"the"Black"Caucus."See"
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sometimes"when"I"go"out"its"not"just"fundraising,"its"for"the"caucus."When"I"speak"about"the"caucus."I"
speak"about"how,"things"with"Bob"Bogle"
(Tyron"Ali"laughing)"
RON"WATERS:""Meeting"with"Senator"Casey"about"how"could"he"get"the"message"out,"how"could"he"help"
us,"cause"he"said"he"would."So"now"weve"got"the"Inquirer,"who"never"was"a"friend"who"would"report"
stuff"on"black"people,"it"was"a"rare"thing."Now"he"wants"to"sit"down"with"Bob"and"have"an"interview"on"
what"were"doing."Everybody"started"clapping."I"said,"yeah,"because"they"noticed"that"we"are"getting"
attention."We"are"doing"a"lot"of"stuff."They"showed"the"Black"Caucus"in"the"paper"a"couple"of"times."
VANESSA"BROWN:""Front"page."Cause"if"you"didnt"tell"the"story,"who"would?"
RON"WATERS:""Thats"right."Thats"exactly"right."So"I"thanked"them"and"everyone"applauded"
VANESSA"BROWN:""Are"you"ordering"anything,"or"are"you"upset"that"I"(Inaudible)."
TYRON"ALI:"Oh."Ron,"what"is"wrong"with"this"lady?"Can"you"tell"her"I"grew"up"in"Logan"and"Im"alright"
man?"She"keeps"thinking"Im"stiff."(Laughs)"
RON"WATERS:""He"aint"stiff"at"all.""
TYRON"ALI:"So"listen,"they"have"two"meetings"on"Thursday,"Ill"call"you"and"give"you"the"details,"but"it"
have"to"do"with,"remember"that"guy"that"Nutter"had"as"the"chair"of"exSoffender,"before,"or"after"Malik,"
Ron"Cooey?""
RON"WATERS:""Was"it"Ron"Cooey?"Yeah."
TYRON"ALI:"I"dont"know"whats"going"on,"but"we"will"know"Thursday."
RON"WATERS:""He"had"a"relapse."Thats"when"he"moved"him"out"of"that"place"on"54th"and"Woodland.""
VANESSA"BROWN:""That"big"guy?"The"real"big"guy."
TYRON"ALI:"You"gotta"be"kidding"me.""
RON"WATERS:""That"was"a"while"ago!"
TYRON"ALI:"But"hes"doing"something"now,"he"got"involved"in"something"else."
RON"WATERS:""Yeah."
TYRON"ALI:"And"believe"it"or"not,"he"has"a"lot"of"supporters."
RON"WATERS:""Hes"a"really"good"guy."
TYRON"ALI:"He"is"a"smart"guy,"a"very,"very"smart"guy.""
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RON"WATERS:""But"now"they"want"to"open"another"prison."Now"they"got"one"scheduled"to"go"in"over"
63rd"and"Ludlow."Right"where"the"church"is."That"big"church"on"the"corner."
VANESSA"BROWN:""Thats"crazy."
RON"WATERS:""They"want"to"do"a"female"prison,"well"not"a"prison,"but"a"female"place"for"people"turning,"
Its"supposed"to"be"for"women,"where"they"can"have"their"children"live"with"them,"something"like"that."
TYRON"ALI:"That"is"not"the"answer.""
RON"WATERS:""No."
TYRON"ALI:"Whos"behind"this"one,"Nicolletti"again?"
RON"WATERS:""I"dont"know."Because"I"know"that"Nicolletti"had"come"and"talked"to"me"about,"he"
wanted"to"do"that,"he"and"some"guy"named"Jim"Davis."
TYRON"ALI:"Yeah,"Jim"is"my"boy."He"runs"Liberty"Management."Old"white"boy."My"man."
RON"WATERS:""Right."Right."So"I"told"him,"I"said,"listen,"cause"I"told"him"about"the"problem"over"there"in"
southwest"Philly."I"said,"You"know"what?"Ima"tell"yall"now,"doing"a"prison"or"anything"like"this"is"gonna"
a"hard"sell."You"know"so,"Im"gonna"give"you"a"tip."Yall"gotta"get"your"message"together"and"make"it"
strong"cause"you"gotta"talk"to"the"community."And"if"they"opposed"to"it"then"Im"going"to"be"with"the"
community."Because"I"told"them"
TYRON"ALI:"Oh,"okay."Before"the"rockets"start"going"off,"let"me"talk"to"you"for"a"second,"alright?"Heres"
the"deal."
RON"WATERS:""Yeah?"
TYRON"ALI:"Sir,"Tuesday"I"have"a"meeting"with"Jim"at"the"Union"League.""
RON"WATERS:""Okay."
TYRON"ALI:"I"will"let"you"know."
RON"WATERS:""Okay."Okay."
TYRON"ALI:"Alright?"Cause"they"called"crying"already"because"Shirley"doesnt"set"them"up."She"set"em"
up."She"set"em"up."Yo,"can"I"tell"you"(laughing),"they"were""they"were"crying,"Ty!"I"dont"get"it!"
RON"WATERS:""But"the"got"a"facility"down"in"her"district"on"Lehigh"Avenue."Cause"she"was"opposed"to"it"
at"first"because"the"community"was."See"but"thats"the"problem."You"gotta"get"somebody"like"that"to"
TYRON"ALI:"Now"you"gonna"make"me"lean"back"and"put"up"my"leg"because"now"I"gotta"talk"to"you."
Listen,"(Whispering)"they"lied"to"her.""
RON"WATERS:""Oh"okay."
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TYRON"ALI:"They"lied"to"her."Caused"what"happened"was,"Jim"was"like,"Yo"man,"I"know"you,"you"come"
down"there"and"talk"to"them"cause,"they"listen"to"you"Ty."I"said,"Who"do"you"want"to"come"down"
there?"
RON"WATERS:""(Inaudible)"
TYRON"ALI:"Kathy"Batt"
VANESSA"BROWN:""Kathy"Batts?"
RON"WATERS:""Shes"the"one"who"took"us"on"the"tour."
TYRON"ALI:"Shh."Shh."So"now,"so"now,"they"done"gave"me"honorary"something"for"your"group."
RON"WATERS:""Which"one?"
TYRON"ALI:"All"the"police"people.""
TYRON"ALI:"Yeah,"so"now"they"done."They"gave"me"a"little"something."I"started"laughing"Ron,"cause"I"
said,"I"asked"them,"What"that"cost?"About"$.25?"
(Laughing)"
TYRON"ALI:"So"hell,"I"called"them"out."I"said,"Man,"look"Ill"be"sheriff"like"you."(Laughs)"
RON"WATERS:""You"take"that,"and"a"dollar."Youll"get"a"small"frosty."
(Laughing)"
TYRON"ALI:"So"we"laughing"and"talking."Jim"said"to"me,"he"goes,"I"dont"know"what"to"say"Tyron."I"mean,"
I"dont"know"what"to"say."I"said,"Well,"I"know"this"is"a"challenge"for"you,"but"the"truth"might"be"good."
(Laughing)"
RON"WATERS:""Aw"man."
TYRON"ALI:"They"cant"say"anything."You"know"what"I"mean?"Cause"its"hard"for"them"to"even,"its"hard"
for"them"to"lie"to"me"cause"I"know"their"games.""
RON"WATERS:""Yeah."
TYRON"ALI:"So"then,"they"brought"in"that"guy"that"used"to"be"an"old"drug"dealer,"Jim"Harden."The"
Republican"ward"leader."
RON"WATERS:""Oh"okay."Okay."
TYRON"ALI:"From"out"of"Germantown."They"sent"him"up"there"to"go"talk"to"Shirley."So"thats"
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T""57""March"1st,"2011"
RON"WATERS:""So"they"lied"to"her?"I"thought"they"talked"to"her"about"a"candidate"for"warden."
TYRON"ALI:"They"did."They"did."I"know"they"did."Cause"I"was"there."
RON"WATERS:""Okay."
TYRON"ALI:"You"know"what"I"mean?"
RON"WATERS:""Okay."
TYRON"ALI:"So"its"now"empty."Its"empty."
RON"WATERS:""It"is?"
TYRON"ALI:"Its"empty."Because,"remember"now,"the"way"that"we"had"it"set"up,"Little"Pages"right"here."I"
own"that"building"on"the"corner."
RON"WATERS:""Right."
TYRON"ALI:"Mark"owns"the"prison"on"the"side."But"he"owns"the"other"building."The"other"building,"the"
process"got"stopped"because"when"the"city"
WAITRESS:""You"guys"decided"or"you"want"more"time?"
RON"WATERS:""Oh."Go"ahead."
TYRON"ALI:"Start"with"the"lady.""
VANESSA"BROWN:""Im"going"to"have"a"salad."
WAITRESS:""Okay."
VANESSA"BROWN:""Can"I"have"a"little"extra"dressing"on"the"side?""
RON"WATERS:""(Inaudible)"No,"I"dont"eat"salmon."
VANESSA"BROWN:""And"hes"going"to"have"the"same."
WAITRESS:""Okay."
TYRON"ALI:"Can"I"have"the"shrimp"marinara?"Is"it"good"here?"Wait"a"second,"what"would"you"
recommend?"
WAITRESS:""I"mean"it"depends"what"you"like."Do"you"like"steak?"Seafood?""
TYRON"ALI:"Seafood.""
WAITRESS:""Um,"our"Chicken"Chesapeake"is"very"good."Seafood"parmesan"I"like."
TYRON"ALI:"Ill"go"with"that."
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WAITRESS:""Seafood"parmesan?"
TYRON"ALI:"Yeah.""
WAITRESS:""You"get"one"side"with"that."Salad,"broccoli,"zucchini"and"squash"marinara,"rice,"coleslaw."
TYRON"ALI:"Rice"is"fine."
WAITRESS:""Rice?"
TYRON"ALI:"Yeah."
WAITRESS:""Thank"you."Ill"take"these."
TYRON"ALI:"Thank"you"dear."
WAITRESS:""Youre"welcome.""
SS01:52:56"
TYRON"ALI:"So,"so"we"will"know"whats"going"on"on"Tuesday."
RON"WATERS:""Okay."
TYRON"ALI:"Jim"is"like"Listen,"cant"you"guys"help"us?"I"said,"Listen,"I"can"help"you."Did"I"show"you,"we"
all"have"business"cards"now?"Did"I"show"you"my"business"card?"Hes"said"no."(Laughing)"Cause"now"hes"
stuck."Now"hes"stuck."Like,"Ty"come"on"man,"we"can"go"to"Union"League"and"talk"about"business"
(Laughing)"
RON"WATERS:""Right,"right."Whens"the"meeting?"
TYRON"ALI:"Tuesday.""
RON"WATERS:""Thats"the"same"day"the"Governor"does"his"budget"hearings."I"cant"wait"to"hear"this"one."
Its"going"to"be"ugly."
TYRON"ALI:"There"is"no"sacred"cow"in"the"pasture"my"friend."
RON"WATERS:""No."Thats"their"fault."They"couldve"raised"revenue.""
TYRON"ALI:"They"couldve"raised"taxes,"it"wouldve"been"simpler."
RON"WATERS:""They"couldve"raised"taxes."For"a"small"amount,"theres"400"people."
VANESSA"BROWN:""Tobacco."
RON"WATERS:""Tobacco,"Delaware"loophole."
VANESSA"BROWN:""What"you"looking"at"me"like"that"for?"
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RON"WATERS:""Its"money."I"mean"we"have"to"go"after"every"dollar,"just"like"we"did"last"budget.""
VANESSA"BROWN:""You"still"like"tobacco?"
RON"WATERS:""Yeah"
VANESSA"BROWN:""Smokeless"tobacco."
RON"WATERS:""Were"the"only"state"that"dont"tax"it."
VANESSA"BROWN:""Cigars"
RON"WATERS:""Were"the"only"state"that"dont"tax"it.""
VANESSA"BROWN:""Lookterrible."
WAITRESS:""Can"I"clear"this"plate"for"you?"
TYRON"ALI:"Thank"you."
RON"WATERS:""One"of"the"members"has"a"cigar"manufacturer"in"his"district"so"hes"against"it"because"he"
says"he"dont"want"the"cigar"company"to"leave."
TYRON"ALI:"Which"one?"Which"one?"Up"near"Pittsburgh?"
VANESSA"BROWN:""Theyre"not"going"to"leave"because"of"the"taxes."
RON"WATERS:""Where"they"gonna"go?"Anywhere"they"go"theyre"taxing"already.""
VANESSA"BROWN:""Right,"right!"Theyre"not"going"anywhere.""
TYRON"ALI:"Who"has"a"cigar"manufacturer"in"their"district?"
RON"WATERS:""One"of"the"members,"Im"trying"to"think"of"which"one"it"is.""
VANESSA"BROWN:""Hell"be"at"his"office"tomorrow"trying"to"make"a"deal"for"cigars."
RON"WATERS:""Yeah."But"its"a"cigar"manufacturer"
TYRON"ALI:"I"get"the"best.""
RON"WATERS:""Ill"think"about"it."Its"not"in"Philly."I"think"its"in"the"Northeast"part"of"the"State.""
VANESSA"BROWN:""You"and"Jewells"smoke"the"thing"together?"
TYRON"ALI:"Who?"
VANESSA"BROWN:""You"and"Jewells"smoke"together?"
TYRON"ALI:"Who?"
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T""57""March"1st,"2011"
VANESSA"BROWN:""Jewells."Uh"oh."
(Laughing)""
TYRON"ALI:"Ron,"shes"making"me"laugh!"
VANESSA"BROWN:""Order."
TYRON"ALI:"So,"so"Sammy"send"me"this,"where"is"it?"This"is"Youll"enjoy"this."I"hope"I"still"have"it."Now"
they"come"and"asking"me"for"stuff.""
RON"WATERS:""Really?"
TYRON"ALI:"Yeah."I"hope"I"have"it.""
RON"WATERS:""Okay."
TYRON"ALI:"I"tell"you"boy,"after"one"day"its"another"one."
RON"WATERS:""You"have"anything"yet?"
VANESSA"BROWN:""MmShmm."Why"you"getting"hungry"now?"
RON"WATERS:""UnhSunh."I"dont"know"why"I"dont"have"much"of"an"appetite"today.""
VANESSA"BROWN:""I"thought"I"would"have"one.""
TYRON"ALI:"It"erased,"basically"their"asking"for"my"support"for"him"for"sheriff."
RON"WATERS:""Jewell,"he"got"(Inaudible)"for"sheriff."
TYRON"ALI:"Unh"unh."The"Palestinian"boy."You"know,"thats"his"man."Used"to"be"my"man."(Laughs)"
RON"WATERS:""Oh"really?"
TYRON"ALI:"Yeah!"We"used"to"be"tight!"
RON"WATERS:""Hes"running"for"sheriff?"Who"else"is"running"for"sheriff?"
TYRON"ALI:"Theyre"saying"no"one"else"is"running"for"sheriff."His"buddy,"he"told"him,"he"was"like,"Yo,"I"
know"you"and"Ty"tight"like"I"didnt"even"respond,"Ron."When"I"looked"at"it,"I"started"laughing."I"said,"
Look,"your"buddy"already"left"the"caucus"right?"Look"what"hes"sending"me."
RON"WATERS:""MmShmm"
TYRON"ALI:"MmShmm."(Laughing)"
RON"WATERS:""Hes"just"running"around"now"trying"to"start"trouble"everywhere."He"mad.""
TYRON"ALI:"He"upset."He"is"upset."
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RON"WATERS:""Whatd"he"want"you"to"do?""
TYRON"ALI:"Fundraiser."
RON"WATERS:""You"dont"give"up"nothing."
TYRON"ALI:"Im"not.""
RON"WATERS:""I"dont"get"him,"man,"hes"like"a"meanSspirited"person.""
VANESSA"BROWN:""Its"selfShate."
RON"WATERS:""Yeah."He"always"want"to"strike"at"people."He"wants"to"be"more"powerful"than"he"is."
(Inaudible)"He"won"by"144"votes,"you"know"what"Im"sayin?"And"he"had"to"fight"for"those"100"votes."You"
know?"I"dont"think"that"case"is"even"settled"yet."
TYRON"ALI:"At"some"point,"you"know"the"kid"who"works"for"Tony"Payton?"Jorges"son."
RON"WATERS:""Yup."Yeah,"yea,"I"saw"him"this"morning"too."
TYRON"ALI:"He"aint"smart"like"us,"man."
RON"WATERS:""I"aint"saying"hes"smart"like"us."Just"want"him"to"beat"that"asshole."
(Laughing)"
RON"WATERS:""That"guy"came"to"Harrisburg"saying"(Inaudible)."We"only"let"him"say"he"was"in"it"because"
we"thought"that"it"was"the"right"thing"to"do."But"he"never"really"participated."Now"hes"out"attacking"
people."
TYRON"ALI:"Im"gonna"tell"you"something."I"sat"him"down"last"night."I"sat"him"down."I"said,"Let"me"tell"
you,"bro."You"know"I"love"you"as"much"as"I"love"it"when"I"get"a"headache."So"lets"just"be,"let"me"just"put"
something"out"here"to"you."You"saying"some"stuff"about"our"folks"and"theyre"getting"to"hear"it."So"
unless,"you"know,"unless,"its"something"kind,"could"you"please"refrain?"Thats"not"what"I"said,"Im"being"
kind."He"just"looked"at"me."Cause"you"know"Tony"knows"us."
RON"WATERS:""Yeah."
TYRON"ALI:"He"knows."(Laughs)"
RON"WATERS:""Yeah"you"know."We"met"today"and"Curtis"said"someone"was"talking"in"Sherelles"office"
about"the"committee,"the"reassignments"in"committee"and"he"was"saying"that"some"committee"he"was"
taken"off"of,"you"know,"it"happened"to"a"lot"of"us."I"dont"want"to"leave"community"service,"I"like"
community"service."But"Im"off,"ok."But"Curtis"talkin"about,"you"know"they"took"him"off"of"some"
committee"
VANESSA"BROWN:""He"talking"about"appropriation?"
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T""57""March"1st,"2011"
RON"WATERS:""Oh"no,"no."He"talkin"about"whatever"the"new"juggling"that"took"place."He"got"moved"
too."So"I"think."He"comes"in"Cherelles"office"talking"about"it,"so"I"said,"Listen,"you"gotta,"you"gotta"stop"
worrying"about"these"problems"like"that."And"um,"he"said,"Yeah"but"we"got"She"said,"Those"who"
come,"come."Those"who"dont"come,"thats"ok"too."But"we"gotta"keep"moving"forward."We"cant"get"
caught"up"with"the"people"who"are"hesitating"or"dragging"their"feet."We"gotta"move"forward"with"what"
we"got."I"think"that"the"executive"members"have"a"very"cool,"calm,"collected"when"it"comes"down"to"
what"we"need"to"do."I"think"we"have"demonstrated"both"leadership"and"discipline"and"respect,"okay?"
Now"these"other"people"thats"not"coming"forward,"they"may"bring"it"with"they"come."So"lets"not"worry"
about"them."Lets"show"them"by"example"what"they"want"to"be"a"part"of."Okay?"So"let"them"hesitate."
Were"going"forward"
VANESSA"BROWN:""I"noticed"when"you"asked"Cherelle"yesterday,"she"didnt"even"acknowledge"you."
RON"WATERS:""I"know."We"cool."The"Dwight"thing"man."Dwight"He"been"there"20"years."Hes"going"
forward"with"his"life."He"said"that"at"community"its"his"last"term."Yall"cant"hurt"me."Im"fine."He"was"
very"clear."Hes"was"very"clear"that"hes"got"money."He"has"property."He"has"a"future."He"has"a"full"
pension."You"know"he"got"a"lifetime"ahead"of"him."Dwight"is"fine."
VANESSA"BROWN:""He"said,"You"got"more"years"ahead"of"you"than"I"have"behind"me."
RON"WATERS:""Thats"right."Hes"set"for"life."(Inaudible)"He"got"elected"as"State"Rep."He"just"didnt"get"
chair"of"the"committee."Time"to"go"forward,"know"what"I"mean?"I"tried"to"talk"to"him"but"you"know,"
look."I"didnt"do"anything"to"him."I"was"doing"it"for"him."I"rallied"for"him."We"held"meetings"for"him."I"
wasnt"trying"to"get"over.""I"didnt"accept"the"position"in"leadership"just"because"I"thought"they"was"
doing"a"bait"and"switch."You"know"what"I"mean,"well"switch"this"one"for"that"one."
VANESSA"BROWN:""Which"was"a"mistake.""
RON"WATERS:""Now"I"know!"Like,"dag,"yo,"what"difference"did"it"make?"It"wasnt,"and"thats,"you"know,"
Im"ashamed"to"say"that"now."Bill"Preston"mentioned"that"praise"in"the"press"the"other"day"though.""I"
dont"know"if"you"saw"the"Tribune,"you"should"see"the"Tribune,"front"page"about"us"and"not"getting"key"
committee"positions."
TYRON"ALI:"Marginalized"is"the"word."
RON"WATERS:"""Yeah,"yup."It"was"a"nice"article,"though."It"was"fullS"It"had"quotes"in"there"from"Jake,"
quotes"in"there"from"Jake"complaining,"he"was"like,"you"know,"we"was"like"an"afterthought."You"know,"
cause"I"said"there"was"going"to"be"some"corrections,"like"what"the"promise"was.""So,"you"know"but,"for"
the"most"part,"its"time"right"now."For"all"of"us,"this"is"the"time."Were"going"to"pick"ourselves"up."We"
aint"gonna"sit"around"and"mope."And"mope"because"that"guy"didnt"get"elected."
VANESSA"BROWN:""I"only"think"its"just"one"person"moping,"I"dont"think"anyone"else"is"moping"around."
Did"you"see,"you"missed"when"Thomas"was"upset"with"Margo"today?"
RON"WATERS:""No."What"happened?"
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T""57""March"1st,"2011"
VANESSA"BROWN:""Well"first"of"all"Margo"came"up"to"me"today,"and"you"know"how"she"is,"and"she"
apologized"for"not"speaking"to"me"because"she"had"to"apologize"to"Greg"Patelli"yesterday"and"I"was"
standing"there,"I"didnt"know"that"they"had,"that"there"was"something"going"on"between"the"two"of"
them"with"Marcellus"and"the"drilling"of"the"forest."The"forest"drilling."
RON"WATERS:""Yeah."The"severance"tax?"
VANESSA"BROWN:""Anyway,"theyve"been"disagreeing"on"some"stuff"in"the"press."And"today"when"she"
came"to"apologize"I"said,"I"need"to"talk"to"you"about"the"comments"you"made"at"the"Democratic"Reform"
show."
RON"WATERS:""Yeah!"At"the"retreat!"
VANESSA"BROWN:""At"the"reform"show."And"I"said,"I"didnt"appreciate"your"comments"when"you"said"
that"there"were"people"who"were"scourge"of"society"
RON"WATERS:""Yeah,"scourge!"
VANESSA"BROWN:""And"I"didnt"appreciate"that"you"said"there"are"people"who"didnt"want"any"help."
Who"refused"help"and"you"know,"wanted"to"stay"downtrodden."You"know,"she"said,"People"just"refuse"
help."And"she"said,"isnt"that"how"she"said"it?"
RON"WATERS:""Yeah!"Downtrodden"and,"and"scourge."
VANESSA"BROWN:""And"scourge"of"our"society."And"I"said,"I"really"take"issue"with"people"who"describe"
other"folks"like"that."I"said,"Its"one"thing"to"look"at"when"I"look"at"(Inaudible)"to"use"those"terms"but"
for"you"to"use"it"was"extremely"offensive"to"me."
RON"WATERS:""Yeah!"Right."
TYRON"ALI:"Mmm"
VANESSA"BROWN:""Shes"like,"There"are"people"who"just"dont"want"help"and"are"crying"in"their"misery"
and"want"to"stay"in"their"position!"And"I"said,"Margo,"I"dont"agree"with"that."I"dont"think"anybody"
wakes"up"and"says,"I"want"to"be"a"low"life"today."I"want"to"be"a"drug"addict"today."I"want"to"be"a"
nothing."I"want"to"be"a"junkie."Nobody"that"I"know!"Do"you"know"people"like"that?"
RON"WATERS:""Now"I"have"
VANESSA"BROWN:""Because"I"dont"know"anybody"like"that!"I"dont"know."She"says,"Well"I"have"
encountered"people"that"Ive"try"to"help"and"they"just"didnt"want"no"help."I"said,"Maybe"theyre"so"
messed"up"in"their"life"that"stops"them"from"accepting"your"help!"I"said,"Maybe,"you"ever"thought"that"
maybe"they"got"a"bad"hand"and"cant"overcome"it"like"maybe"you"or"I"can?"I"said,"These"Gods"people!"
Youre"a"minister."These"are"Gods"people!"
RON"WATERS:""Yeah."Shes"a"minister?"
46"
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T""57""March"1st,"2011"
VANESSA"BROWN:""Yes!"
RON"WATERS:""Shes"a"minister?"
VANESSA"BROWN:""Yes!!"I"said,"These"are"Gods"people"that"youre"talking"about!"
RON"WATERS:""I"never"knew"she"was"a"minister."
VANESSA"BROWN:""I"said,"For"the"love"of"God,"how"can"you"bring"up"a"dialogue"like"that"in"the"company"
of"the"enemy?"
RON"WATERS:""Yes."Yes!"
VANESSA"BROWN:""So"she"said"to"me,"Were"never"going"to"win"if"we"keep"talking"about"it,"that"were"
taking"care"of"the"least"of"these."
WAITRESS:""I"can"get"that.""
RON"WATERS:""Jesus"asked"us"a"question"about"
WAITRESS:""This"is"the"Caesar"with"extra"dressing."
VANESSA"BROWN:""Thank"you,"love."
RON"WATERS:""Jesus"asked"that"question:"What"have"you"done"for"the"least"of"these?"
VANESSA"BROWN:""For"the"least"of"these"So"I"said"
WAITRESS:""I"just"gotta"go"grab"your"rice."Ill"be"right"back,"okay?"
SS02:06:31SS"
VANESSA"BROWN:""So"I"said."So"I"said,"Margo,"its"better"that"you"lose"a"conversation"or"debate,"than"
win"with"him."
RON"WATERS:""Yeah"
VANESSA"BROWN:""I"said,"Sometimes,"its"better"to"lose."I"said,"If"you"think"as"a"party"were"losers"
because"we"protect"the"innocent,"then"theres"something"wrong"with"that,"Margo."So"she"says,"I"dont"
mix"my"politics"with"my"ministry."Ive"served"those"people"those"peoplein"my"ministry"but"when"I"
come"up"here,"this"is"about"politics!"I"said,"I"dont"know"how"you"separate"the"two."
WAITRESS:""Can"I"get"you"guys"anything"else"right"now?"
RON"WATERS:""Can"I"have"another"tea?"
WAITRESS:""Heres"some"extra"hot"water"for"you"and"when"that"runs"out"I"can"fill"it"up"for"ya."
RON"WATERS:""Oh"okay."
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T""57""March"1st,"2011"
WAITRESS:""Just"dont"touch"anything"but"the"handle"because"that"part"gets"really"hot."
RON"WATERS:""Okay,"thank"you.""
VANESSA"BROWN:""You"need"another"tea"bag?"
WAITRESS:""Anything"else"besides"that?"
RON"WATERS:""No,"theres"tea"right"here."Okay."
WAITRESS:""Okay."
VANESSA"BROWN:""So"um,"I"said,"At"this"point"Margo,"I"think"were"going"to"have"to"agree"to"disagree"
RON"WATERS:""Can"you"get"me"silverware?"
VANESSA"BROWN:""Oh"heres"yours."I"have"it.""
TYRON"ALI:"I"got"it,"I"got"it."
VANESSA"BROWN:""So"I"says,"We"have"to"agree"to"disagree"at"this"point."I"said,"I"just"wanted"you"to"
know"that"I"would"not"have"spoken"to"any"other"member"but"I"spoke"to"you"out"of"love"as"a"sister."And"I"
just"wanted"you"to"know"how"that"made"me"feel."
RON"WATERS:""Well"
VANESSA"BROWN:""Normally"I"would"not"have"addressed"it"but"because"of"who"you"are"I"will"address"it."
RON"WATERS:""Okay."Well"she"heard"me"when"I"went"cause"I"was"sitting"out"and"I"said,"Scourge?!"You"
know"what,"because"I"remember"when"she"ran"for"election,"some"of"these"people"was"out"there"helping"
her"knock"on"doors"
VANESSA"BROWN:""How"about"I"remember"when"they"said"in"the"newspaper"that"she"had"financial"
problems?"
RON"WATERS:""Yeah!"
VANESSA"BROWN:""Cause"some"people"would"have"called"her"a"scourge.""
RON"WATERS:""Thats"exactly"what"theyd"do"
VANESSA"BROWN:""In"some"peoples"eyes"she"is"a"scourge."I"said"the"same"thing"to"her."I"said,"Some"
people"would"consider"me"if"they"look"at"my"issues."So"how"dare"you?"How"could"you"say"that?"
RON"WATERS:""People"get"brand"new."
VANESSA"BROWN:""So"then"as"Im"finishing"up"with"her,"here"comes"Rep."Thomas"on"that"cane."Young"
lady!"and"he"steps"the"cane"down."I"need"to"talk"with"you!"I"said,"(Gasp),"shes"getting"her"ass"kicked"
every"which"way"With"Greg"yesterday,"me"now,"and"we"aint"even"finished"and"now"here"comes"
48"
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Thomas!"So"he"says,"Just"one"moment!"I"understand"that"you"are"no"longer"on"Urban"Affairs."She"says,"
Yeah."He"says,"(Inaudible),"because"you"know"she"lobbied"them"to"get"her"off"cause"she"wanted"off"his"
committee."He"said,"Yeah"that"kinda"makes"sense."So"he"stomped"that"cane"down"again"and"said,"You"
think"that"were"going"to"deal"with"issues"in"Delaware"county?"And"she"goes,"I"just"need"Upper"Darby"
because"that"is"more"suitable"to"my"county."He"says,"Well"we"deal"with"your"issues"in"Urban"Affairs"
and"you"gonna"find"yourself"in"trouble"if"you"keep"separating"yourself"from"Philadelphia."You"better"be"
careful"doing"that!"And"he"slammed"that"cane."So"at"that"point"I"said,"See"you"later!"
TYRON"ALI:"Shell"be"isolated."
RON"WATERS:""Thats"what"shes"gonna"do."
TYRON"ALI:"Shes"going"to"isolate"herself"from"grant"opportunities"and"other"kinds"of"economic"
development.""
VANESSA"BROWN:""So"he"says,"You"keep"separating"yourself"from"Philadelphia"and"see"what"happens"
later."He"let"her"have"it"today.""
RON"WATERS:""Well"she"has"separated"herself"from"Philly."Even"when"she"was"first"
VANESSA"BROWN:""The"first"thing"she"said!"
RON"WATERS:""Even"when"she"was"voting"against"us"on"almost"everything."
VANESSA"BROWN:""Yeah,"(inaudible).""
RON"WATERS:""Yeah,"and"Im"like,"she"cant"she"aint"gonna"win,"they"want"that"seat"back,"trust"me."They"
coming"after"her.""
VANESSA"BROWN:""Yeah."If"she"votes"like"that,"they"have"their"own"(inaudible)."They"dont"need"you"to"
vote."
RON"WATERS:""No,"they"dont"need"her."And"then"they"got"the"people"like"ADTC"to"go"after"and"go"and"
fight"to"get"them"to"support"her."They"will"not"do"it.""
VANESSA"BROWN:""Mm"Hmm."
RON"WATERS:""They"was"like"
VANESSA"BROWN:""And"then"look"at"what"shes"doing"(Inaudible)"
RON"WATERS:""I"know."I"know.""
VANESSA"BROWN:""She"got"more"money"out"of"them"then"we"would"have"ever"gotten.""
WAITRESS:""How"is"everything?"
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T""57""March"1st,"2011"
RON"WATERS:""Everythings"ok."(Inaudible)"But"people"who"knew"her,"better"than"I"did,"told"me,"You"
dont"know"her."They"told"me,"You"dont"know"her."They"said,"You"wait."
SS02:11:11"
VANESSA"BROWN:""I"had"to"talk"to"her"about"her"behavior.""
RON"WATERS:""Oh"yea,"I"was"ready"to"say"that"to"someone."Because"when"she"say"scourge,"she"aint"
talkin"about"white"people."
VANESSA"BROWN:""No!"
RON"WATERS:""Know"what"I"mean?"(Inaudible)"I"didnt"get"that."Im"moving"on."But"I"did"my"part."I"
helped"her."I"was"asked"to"help"her."I"met"her."But"then"after"the"way"shes"acting"now,"its"like"she"
acting"like"she"got"it"all"together."Look"around."Live"and"learn."You"know?"
VANESSA"BROWN:""They"messing"with"Michelle."Did"she"tell"you"what"they"did?"
RON"WATERS:""No."
VANESSA"BROWN:""Michelle"went"over"and"all"of"her"staff.""
RON"WATERS:""Shes"got"Daisy?"
VANESSA"BROWN:""Well"shes"got"Daisy."Shes"got"a"very"expensive"staff."Shes"got"Daisy,"shes"got"
Carrie"and"shes"got"(?)."Cause"theyve"all"been"with"the"caucus"now"for"over"20"years"a"piece."Each"of"
them!"So"thats"about"60"years"of"experience"she"got."So"with"that,"they"wont"allow"her"to"hire"anybody"
else."
RON"WATERS:""Daisy"alone!"Daisy"makes"more"than"April."
VANESSA"BROWN:""Shes"done."Theyre"like,"Youre"done."You"cant"hire"anybody"else."Youre"over"your"
budget."And"shes"like"(Inaudible)"
RON"WATERS:""No,"but"she"had"to"realize"that"they,"those"people"are"cost"reformers,"they"only,"they"
looking"out"for"Daisy."(Inaudible)""
VANESSA"BROWN:""Well"Michelle"shouldnt"pay"for"it."Thats"not"Michelles"issue.""
RON"WATERS:""Well"somebodys"gotta"pay"for"it."And"ones"those"reports"come"about"how"much"this"
person"makes"and"this"person"
TYRON"ALI:"Its"a"riot."
RON"WATERS:""And"when"people"start"looking"at"what"shes"getting,"ok,"and"you"take"a"look"at"what"
youre"getting."Guess"what?"Youre"gonna"be"the"one"that"has"a"problem."(Inaudible)"I"thinks"Daisy"
makes"more"than"some"members"make."Ok?"
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TYRON"ALI:"Freshmen"members"anyway."
RON"WATERS:""Freshmen,"yea"freshmen."Daisy"has"been"here"for"more"than"10"years,"shes"making"a"
hell"of"a"salary."Its"still"your"budget."
VANESSA"BROWN:""(Inaudible)""
TYRON"ALI:"The"person"whos"going"to"suffer"in"that"whole"situation?"Gary."Cause"he"um,"he"made"the"
call"to"one"of"our"guys"about"three"weeks"ago."Were"gonna,"we"might"be"able"to"be"helpful."Heres"the"
problem:"Now,"he"wants"to"run"after"Jewells."
RON"WATERS:""Hmm?"
TYRON"ALI:"He"wants"to"run"after"Jewells."
RON"WATERS:""I"know."
TYRON"ALI:"Hes"like,"Tyron,"Im"moving."I"said,"Gary,"I"love"you"like"a"brother,"but"youve"got"some"
other"folks"who"are"much"more"financially"capable"of"handling"a"campaign"than"you"are."
TYRON"ALI:"You"know"me,"Ron!""I"dont"pull"any"punches."I"tell"it"like"it"is."You"dont"like"it,"thats"you."
RON"WATERS:""Right."Hes"trying"to"be"ward"leader"too."
TYRON"ALI:"Hes"a"nice"guy!"
RON"WATERS:""Yea."
TYRON"ALI:"You"know?"(Cell"Phone7keeps7ringing.7Does7not7answer)"When"I"call"you"bro,"and"you"take"3S4"
days"to"call"me"back,"thats"what"happens.""
RON"WATERS:""(Laughs)."
TYRON"ALI:"No,"you"pick"up"that"phone"when"I"call"you"man."
RON"WATERS:""Yea."
TYRON"ALI:"If"you"dont"pick"it"up,"I"mean,"youll"never"know"why"Im"calling."
RON"WATERS:""Thats"the"way"it"is."
TYRON"ALI:"The"thing"about"it"is"you"can"have"all"the"friends"you"want,"people"like"to"see"competence."
(VANESSA7BROWN:77and7RON7WATERS:77inaudible)"
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T""57""March"1st,"2011"
WAITRESS:""Do"you"want"more"diet"soda?"
TYRON"ALI:"Yea,"thanks."
WAITRESS:""Youre"welcome."
SS02:16:00SS"
RON"WATERS:""(Oh7the7phone7with7unknown)"No"committee"assignments"are"different."I"dont"know."We"
might"have"to"do"it"again."I"can"get"my"staff"to"do"it"again."All"you"have"to"do"is"send"themAbsolutely."
Ill"tell"you"who"to"send"them"to."Send"them"to"Valerie."She"gets"in"the"office"at"8:00."No,"you"do"it"by"
email?"At"pahouse.org."Shes"the"oneyea."And"the"other,"I"have"to"call"for"committee"assignments,"ok?"
Ok."Yea.""
VANESSA"BROWN:""I"asked"yesterday"to"introduce"my"legislation,"in"urban"affairs."
TYRON"ALI:"Huh?"Are"you"talking"to"me?"What"did"you"say?"Im"sorry."
VANESSA"BROWN:""Yesterday"in"the"House,"I"introduced"legislation."The"legislation"for"the"tax"on"
(Inaudible)"
(RON"WATERS:""continues"telephone"call)."
TYRON"ALI:"Vanessa,"its"important"that"you"hear"the"banks"position."
TYRON"ALI:"Im"also"going"to"finance"your"next"campaign."(Laughs)."
VANESSA"BROWN:""I"gotcha.""
TYRON"ALI:"Who"proposed"that?"Brian?"
VANESSA"BROWN:""No,"this"is"one"Im"proposing."This"one"is"on"the"senior"citizen"housing."Get"their"
health"care"through"AAA,"put"them"in"a"waiver"program"to"protect"their"homes"for"the"families"in"order"
to"compensate"the"state"for"all"its"services"they"receive"and"lets"just"to"say"that"the"house"is"$50,000"or"
less,"that"it"should"be"protected."They"dont"need"to"go"into"the"waiverSS""
RON"WATERS:""Why"dont"you"send"them"all"to"me?"Ill"put"them"up"on"the"internet."
VANESSA"BROWN:""Because"the"program,"the"way"the"program"is"originally"designed"for"people"who"
have"homes"of"$100,000"or"more"who"could"afford"to"pay"for"their"health"care"but"were"relying"on"the"
AAA,"all"those"folks"that"were"moving"into"Pennsylvania"for"the"services,"the"health"services"that"we"
offered"to"seniors."We"have"one"of"the"best"plans"in"the"country,"right,"for"Medicare"and"Medicaid."So,"
the"loophole"is"the"people"who"are"poor"are"getting"their"homes"taken."But"the"reality"of"it"all"is"the"
state"doesnt"even"take"their"home"because"it"cost"too"much"money"to"go"through"the"process."All"the"
liens"are"still"on"the"home"so"they"can"never"do"any"equity,"they"cant"do"anything."Theyre"stuck"in"a"
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T""57""March"1st,"2011"
waiver"program"and"the"home"just"sits"there"with"no"title"when"the"person"dies."No"one"in"the"family"
can"do"anything"with"the"house"because"the"state"is"claiming"ownership"and"never"taking"it."So"all"these"
boarded"houses"are"sitting"around"with"$150,000"
RON"WATERS:""What"are"you"talking"about?"
VANESSA"BROWN:""The"waiver"program"that"your"mom"waswhen"they"was"trying"to"get"your"moms"
house."
RON"WATERS:""Oh,"yea."SpinSdown."
RON"WATERS:""Its"a"terrible"thing"they"do,"taking"peoples"property."I"mean"taking"
TYRON"ALI:"Dont"look"at"me"and"laugh."You"know"what"Im"going"to"say."
RON"WATERS:""I"know,"but"theyre"doing"that."And"they"want"to"get"my"mom"to"sign"for"that."We"had"a"
happy"hour"there"and"me"and"my"sister"had"an"argument"over"it."I"know"now"shell"probably"say"I"told"
her"one"thing."I"cant"believe"the"voicemail"about"my"office"pool.""
TYRON"ALI:"Which"one?"Up"here"in"Harrisburg"or"home?"
RON"WATERS:""In"Philly."
TYRON"ALI:"Oh."
RON"WATERS:""I"dont"remember"my"staff"(Inaudible)"because"this"is"ridiculous."
TYRON"ALI:"Whos"that"in"charge"of"that?"Is"that"YaSya?"
RON"WATERS:""Mm"Mm."
TYRON"ALI:"Oh."You"still"got"him"with"you?"
RON"WATERS:""Yea."We"went"to"the"representative"yesterday,"the"CCPD"yesterday"had"this"event"
dealing"with"exSoffenders."
TYRON"ALI:"Oh"good."Every"time"I"talk"about"that"brother"I"laugh."I"have"to."
RON"WATERS:""Who?"YaSYa?"
TYRON"ALI:"Two"guns,"my"man."Im"telling"you."Its"terrible."
RON"WATERS:""Hes"loaded."
TYRON"ALI:"I"know!"Hes"got"a"permit."Thats"why,"when"she"says,"Ty,"you"so"stupid."I"just"laugh."
(Laughs)"
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RON"WATERS:""Im"finished."
VANESSA"BROWN:""They"had"really"good"news."
TYRON"ALI:"Back"in"the"day"Vanessa."(Laughs)"
TYRON"ALI:"How"did"that"work"out"with"Brandon?"Did"you"get"that"resolved"already?"
VANESSA"BROWN:""Yea,"they"gave"him"a"suspension."
TYRON"ALI:"Oh"it"was"him?"
VANESSA"BROWN:""They"figured"out"they"didnt"want"me"to"tell"because"it"was"a"HEPA"violation."
RON"WATERS:""(On7the7phone)"Was"Valerie"in"today?"
VANESSA"BROWN:""Cause"he"would"fight"for"him."
TYRON"ALI:"Oh.""
VANESSA"BROWN:""Oh"theyre"giving"him"a"fourSday"suspension."He"dont"need"anything"else."
(Inaudible)"
RON"WATERS:""100"black,"or"black"100"I"believe"its"called"
VANESSA"BROWN:""Oh"you"want"to"put"the"ad"out"for"that?"
RON"WATERS:""My"committee"assignments"came."And"they"were"listed"on"the"web."Im"back"on"
judiciary."
VANESSA"BROWN:""
RON"WATERS:""They"told"me"during"the"services"Im"happy"to"be"back"on"judiciary,"yea."
VANESSA"BROWN:""You"didnt"like"it?"
RON"WATERS:""She"need"that"ad"done"by"8:00,"I"mean"10."
TYRON"ALI:"You"know"what,"my"sisters"birthday"was"actually"four"days"ago."And"the"cake"was"
spectacular."
VANESSA"BROWN:"""Where"did"you"go?"
TYRON"ALI:"Miel.""
VANESSA"BROWN:""Wheres"that?"
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T""57""March"1st,"2011"
TYRON"ALI:"Its"um,"its"on"Sansom"Street."Its"downtown."But"the"owner,"the"original"owner"is"one"of"my"
really"good"friends."And"even"the"family"that"owns"it"now,"were"very"close"to"them"because"they"did"my"
wedding"cake,"but"boy,"I"have"to"bring"you"one"of"those."
VANESSA"BROWN:""What"kind"of"cake"is"it?"
TYRON"ALI:"Its"a"strawberry"shortcake"for"her,"but"I"want"to"bring"you"one"of"their"crme"brulee.""It"is"
spectacular."They"have"a"chocolate"and"a"vanilla"bean."Really,"really"good"stuff."
TYRON"ALI:"Theyve"won"a"lot"of"competitions."
TYRON"ALI:"Im"gonna"use"that,"Its"not"a"lot,"but"its"got"to"be"correct."(Laughs).""
RON"WATERS:""Hey,"look."You"have"to"make"things"very"simple"when"youre"talking"to"people"man.""
Because"people"make"it"complicated."Im"like,"its"not"a"lot,"just"do"it"right."Its"not"complicated."I"dont"
want"to"hear"about"it"was"difficult"to"do."Cause"its"not"difficult."
TYRON"ALI:"Somebody"asked"me"the"other"day"like,"Who"do"you"think"is"a"good"process"manager"as"it"
goes"to"relationship"manager"of"the"house?"I"said,"Well"look"at"the"chair"of"the"black"caucus"now."I"
mean"Thaddeus"is"more"of"a"relationship"kind"of"guy,"hes"not"process"driven."You,"because"of"your"
background,"youre"process"driven."
RON"WATERS:""You"better"learn"that"if"you"work"for"the"parking"authority!"
TYRON"ALI:"(Laughs)"Its"like"the"parking"authority!"Thats"what"I"was"going"to"say!"You"took"the"words"
right"out"of"my"mouth!"He"was"like,"How"do"you"know"that?"I"said,"Because"Ron"and"I"have"been"
friends"for"years!"I"know"what"Im"talking"about."
RON"WATERS:""You"better"believe"it."
TYRON"ALI:"Hes"a"very"processSdriven"guy"so"if"you"give"him"something,"make"sure"its"right."You"know?"
RON"WATERS:""You"had"to"be"clever"and"shrewd"on"the"street"man."You"write"a"ticket,"you"dont"know"
who"its"going"to."Politician,"criminal,"(Inaudible)""
TYRON"ALI:"Well"when"we"meet"with"Jim,"Tuesdayare"you"up"here"Tuesday?"
RON"WATERS:""Mm"Hmm."
TYRON"ALI:"Ill"come"up"here"so"you"and"I,"we"can"sit"down."Because"I"want"to"hear"what"they"have"to"
say."(Laughing)"
RON"WATERS:""Yea."Cause"the"neighborhoods"going"to"fight"it."Ladys"already"got"a"petition"drawn"up,"
shes"going"to"fight"it."
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TYRON"ALI:"I,"I"told"them"what"to"do."I"said"the"first"thing"you"gotta"do"is"stop"thinking"that"theres"only"
one"game"in"town."Thats"number"one!"
RON"WATERS:""Yea!"All"they"gotta"do"is"go"to"(Inaudible)."
TYRON"ALI:"Two,"cause"see"thats"the"problem."
RON"WATERS:""Hm?"
TYRON"ALI:"Thats"the"problem."Cause,"you"know,"Michael"Carr"being"there."You"know"what"I"mean?"You"
know,"all"the"usual"suspects.""
RON"WATERS:""Yea.""
TYRON"ALI:"My"thing"is,"look,"if"you"want"to"come"talk"to"one"of"our"guys,"you"gotta"come"talk"to"me,"
bro."I"dont"care"who"you"are."You"could"be"the"president,"you"come"talk"to"me"alright?"
RON"WATERS:""Mm"Hmm."
TYRON"ALI:"(Laughs)"He"said,"Tyron"are"you"serious?"I"said,"No,"Im"not"serious."Im"Tyron"Ali."Nice"to"
meet"you."
RON"WATERS:""So,"let"me"tell"you."As"long"as"I"got"this"term"to"serve"as"the"Black"Caucus"chairman,"the"
one"thing"I"want"to"establish"is"that"we"are"a"force"to"be"reckoned"with,"we"are"substantive,"and"I"want"
to"bring"us"all"together."But"right"now,"we"dont"have"everybody."Because"our"people"fighting."
TYRON"ALI:"Well"I"know"that"Angels"just"dying"for"you"to"call"him."(Laughs)"
RON"WATERS:""To"do"what?"
TYRON"ALI:"Just"kidding!"(Laughing)"
RON"WATERS:""Call"him?"
TYRON"ALI:"No."Dont"call"him."Dont"call"him."
RON"WATERS:""That"guy,"I"dont"even"respond"to"him"man."That"gives"him"somethingyou"know"how"
they"say,"dont"even"dignify"him"with"a"response."You"know"what"Im"saying?"He"aint"that"important"to"
me"man."
VANESSA"BROWN:""Mm"Hmm."
TYRON"ALI:"The"problem"is"I"guess"he"hasnt"gotten"to"that"place"intellectually,"where"if"youre"not"black"
you"are"white"and"if"you"are"not"white"you"are"black.""
RON"WATERS:""Well"
VANESSA"BROWN:""He"doesnt"know"who"he"is." "
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TYRON"ALI:"I"tried"to"explain"to"him"that,"you"know,"I"told"him"that"if"you"identify"with"being"
Puertoriqueno,"you"should"know"that"the"Taino"and"the"Naino"Indians"were"not"Indians"at"all."They"were"
the"indigene"and"where"did"they"come"from?"You"know,"when"you"dont"know"your"history,"brother,"
dont"come"talking"to"me"because"I"know"mine."
RON"WATERS:""Yea."I"dont"think"he"cares."
TYRON"ALI:"You"hit"it"on"the"head."He"does"not"care."
WAITRESS:""Are"you"finished"with"your"plate?"
TYRON"ALI:"Yes,"I"am."Thank"you"
RON"WATERS:""(Inaudible)."
TYRON"ALI:"Of"course,"people"from"Spain"that"say"Im"European."
VANESSA"BROWN:""Yea,"like"people"from"Cuba."They"dont"say"
TYRON"ALI:"Where?"Cuba?"
VANESSA"BROWN:""Yea"they"dont"think"that"theyrethey"think"theyre"white."
TYRON"ALI:"Some"of"them."Some"folks"from"the"DR,"they"think"that"theyre"white.""
RON"WATERS:""Yea,"but"somebody,"you"know"what"though,"thats"somebody"who"had."Its"funny,"
yesterday"somebody"said,"Is"he"Cuban?"
TYRON"ALI:"Me?"
RON"WATERS:""No,"no."
TYRON"ALI:"Oh,"Cruz?"
RON"WATERS:""I"said,"No,"hes"Puerto"Rican."But"hes"not,"I"bet"you"in"the"census"report"he"probably"
puts"down,"when"they"ask"him"for"his"nationality,"I"bet"he"puts"down"white."
TYRON"ALI:"He"just"puts"that"C"for"Caucasian.""
(Laughing)"
RON"WATERS:""I"dont"want"to"waste"no"time"talking"about"that"guy."
TYRON"ALI:"But"it"is"entertaining."
RON"WATERS:""Yea"Yea"
TYRON"ALI:"You"gotta"talk"about"somebody."Come"on"now."
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(Laughing)"
RON"WATERS:""He"was"a"pretty"decent,"there"was"a"guy"who"I"took"out"who"was"a"pretty"decent"guy"
named"Ben"Ramos."
TYRON"ALI:"Juans"brother"right?"
RON"WATERS:""I"dont"think"it"was"Juans"brother"or"not.""
TYRON"ALI:"Pedro,"Ben"and"Juan."
RON"WATERS:""They"all"brothers?"Ok."
TYRON"ALI:"Former"city"solicitor."
TYRON"ALI:"Yea."
VANESSA"BROWN:""Angels"so"funny,"he"says,"Hes"not"one"of"us!"
TYRON"ALI:"Who"said"that?"
VANESSA"BROWN:""Angel."
RON"WATERS:""Oh."Yea."
VANESSA"BROWN:""He"says,"Ha"hes"not"one"of"us!"
RON"WATERS:""Yea."He"dont"like"him."
VANESSA"BROWN:""Uh"huh."
RON"WATERS:""I"like"Angel."I"saw"Angel"go"down"with"us."
VANESSA"BROWN:""He"fought"for"me"for"my"campaign."
RON"WATERS:""He"worked"with"you?"
VANESSA"BROWN:""He"spoke"for"me"at"the"gay"and"lesbian"community"event."
TYRON"ALI:"LGBT?"
VANESSA"BROWN:""Yea,"cause"I"couldnt"make"it."They"had"me"go"somewhere"in"the"neighborhood"and"
Angel"said,"I"will"represent"you"down"there.""He"was"when"he"spoke"for"me"at"my"reSelection"
campaign."
TYRON"ALI:"Wait"the"one"of"16th"and,"what"is"it"13th"and"Race"or"13th"and"
VANESSA"BROWN:""William"Vey?"No,"this"was"
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TYRON"ALI:"The"girl"who"was"the"director"down"there,"those"was"my"people."
VANESSA"BROWN:""Yea"thats"where"it"was!"
TYRON"ALI:"Susan"Higgenbotham."Yea."Janie"sent"me"down"there"to"talk"to"her"cause"I"knew"theyre"your"
folks."I"said,"Alright,"Ill"talk"to"her"for"you."
SS02:30:11SS"
RON"WATERS:""Let"me"tell"you"who"I"saw"yesterday."Whos"that"person"running"against"Danny?"Who"was"
telling"me"that?"If"she"keeps"doing"this"prison"shit"shes"going"to"have"problems."
TYRON"ALI:"What"happened?"What"happened?"
VANESSA"BROWN:""Not"to"the"second,"the"next"one."
RON"WATERS:""If"shes"behind"this"other"prison"
VANESSA"BROWN:""Theyre"not"behind"it."
RON"WATERS:""Cause"she"already"lost"the"Southwest"part"of"the"city."
TYRON"ALI:"I"told"her"what"was"going"on!"
RON"WATERS:""Now"if"she"calls"me"and"to"handle"it"and"I"see"she"doing"the"same"shit,"she"gonna"have"a"
problem."But"the"only,"maybe"she"wont"because"she"dont"have"a"candidate"running"against"her.""
TYRON"ALI:"Oh"yes"she"does."
TYRON"ALI:"Yea"but"you"dont"have"to"say"that,"Ron."Becausehuh?"
VANESSA"BROWN:""Shes"doing"good"social"work."
RON"WATERS:""Yes"she"is."
TYRON"ALI:"Can"I"tell"you"something?"
RON"WATERS:""Whats"that?"
TYRON"ALI:"Shes"getting"some"help."
RON"WATERS:""Huh?"Shes"getting"some"help?"Oh."
TYRON"ALI:"(Laughs)."Shes"getting"some"help.""
RON"WATERS:""Them"people"right"there."She"needs"to"capitalize"on"that,"cause"she"(inaudible)"if"shes"
willing.""
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TYRON"ALI:"Well,"they"dont"like"her"politics."They"like"the"fact"that"she"was"a"school"teacher.""
RON"WATERS:""Yea."
TYRON"ALI:"That"really"hits"home."
RON"WATERS:""Yea.""
TYRON"ALI:"You"know?"
TYRON"ALI:"And"I"said"to"Mike,"I"talked"to"him"last"week,"I"said,"Listen,"man."Uh"at"some"point"we"gotta"
sit"down"and"figure"out"whats"what"because"your"man"Katz"aint"in"the"race."And"Knotts"is"out."And"you"
know"we"cant"deal"with"your"boy."So"what"are"we"going"to"do?""
RON"WATERS:""Mandatory?"
TYRON"ALI:"mm"Hmm."
RON"WATERS:""The"only"one"running"for"Mayor"is"Milton"Street."
TYRON"ALI:"Can"I"tell"you"something?"The"boy"from"North"Philly"is"helping"them"though."(Inaudible)"
RON"WATERS:""Oh"Im"sure"he"is."
TYRON"ALI:"She"just"looks"up"at"me"and"shakes"her"head"like,"I"cant"believe"he"just"said"that."
(Laughing)"
TYRON"ALI:"I"like"Milton,"man."I"like"his"politics."
VANESSA"BROWN:""(Laughs)"Behind"bars?"Which"side"of"the"bar"are"you"talking"about?"
RON"WATERS:""He"has"small"candidate."
TYRON"ALI:"Im"going"to"tell"you"something."He"makes"a"good"point."
RON"WATERS:""Ok.""
TYRON"ALI:"People"who"have"been"incarcerated,"nonSviolent"offenders,"and"a"lot"of"folks"that"need"
addiction"therapy,"are"serving"out"sentences"for"no"really"good"reason."
VANESSA"BROWN:""They"should"have"been"in"the"diversionary"program."
TYRON"ALI:"So"he"makes"a"good"point."Heres"the"thing:"Hes"not"the"right"vehicle"for"that"message."
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VANESSA"BROWN:""(Laughs)"right."He"said,"It"takes"one"to"know"one."
TYRON"ALI:"Ya"know?"
RON"WATERS:""Who"said"that?"Whos"saying"that?"
VANESSA"BROWN:""Milton!"
TYRON"ALI:"Yea!"
VANESSA"BROWN:""He"said,"Takes"one"to"know"one."Yea!"
RON"WATERS:""Milton"is"trying"to,"matter"of"fact,"trying"to"get"all"the"exSoffenders"in"the"city"to"vote"for"
him."
TYRON"ALI:"300,000"
RON"WATERS:""That"would"be"about"300,000"people."
TYRON"ALI:"Mm"Hmm."And"unfortunately"
RON"WATERS:""And"they"got"families"too."
TYRON"ALI:"Can"I"just"say"this"to"you?"Im"saying"this"to"you"here."Now,"there"is"a"young"white"lady,"
about"27"yearsSold."Very"attractive"
RON"WATERS:""What"is"she"doing"right"now?"I"like"her"already."
(Laughing)"
TYRON"ALI:"She"did"about"three"years"for"fraud.""
RON"WATERS:""Ok."
TYRON"ALI:"But"she"has"it"in"her"head"that"she"wants"to"be"helpful."You"know?"She"wants"to"be"helpful."
RON"WATERS:""Ok."
TYRON"ALI:"(Laughing)"Im"having"a"hard"time"talking"about"this"(Laughing)""
(Laughing)"
RON"WATERS:""She"did"three"years?"Milton"did"eight"years!"And"hes"not"attractive!"
(Laughing)"
TYRON"ALI:"She"said,"Ty,"I"just"need"to"work"on"somebodys"campaign"to"get"my"issues"heard."
(Laughing)"
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RON"WATERS:""We"ought"to"get"her"on"our"staff,"for"real."Cause"we"on"that"stuff.""
WAITRESS:""Are"you"finished"with"your"plates?"
TYRON"ALI:"She"wont"move"from"where"she"is."Shes"in"New"York."
WAITRESS:""Any"dessert"or"coffee"for"you?"
RON"WATERS:""She"lives"in"New"York?"
TYRON"ALI:"Yes."Yes."Shes"in"New"York."
WAITRESS:""Dessert"and"coffee"or?"
TYRON"ALI:"Do"you"have"espresso"or"cappuccino?"
WAITRESS:""Yes."
TYRON"ALI:"Which"one"do"you"have?"
WAITRESS:""Both."
TYRON"ALI:"Oh!"Can"I"have"a"cappuccino?"
VANESSA"BROWN:""Im"fine."What"desserts"do"you"have?"
WAITRESS:""I"can"bring"out"the"dessert"tray"for"you."
RON"WATERS:""But"you"know"though,"that"issue,"they"did"a"big"article,"somebody"showed"me"today,"
Andy"Hoover,"you"know"from"the"ACLU,"they"did"like"a"section."You"know"how"they"got"a"different"
section"A,"section"B,"they"did"a"whole"section"about"whats"wrong"with"the"criminal"justice"system"in"our"
state."
VANESSA"BROWN:""Who?"The"Inquirer?"
RON"WATERS:""No,"it"wasnt"the"Inquirer."I"think"it"was"the"Patriot"News."Its"huge!"They"did"a,"like"an"inS
depth"study."
TYRON"ALI:"I"dont"trust"that"newspaper."
RON"WATERS:""Yea."But"it"might"not"be"them."Cause"he"showed"it"to"me."I"dont"know,"for"some"reason"
might"have"been"another"major"newspaper.""
VANESSA"BROWN:""It"doesnt"sound"like"something"they"would"cover."
RON"WATERS:""Yea,"yea."It"doesnt."But"it"was"like"an"inSdepth."Andy"showed"it"to"me."It"talked"about"all"
kind"of"problems"we"have."Why"we"are"not"functioning."We"have"people"just"wasting"taxSpayer"dollars."
TYRON"ALI:"Speaking"of"judges,"the"administrative"judge"of"traffic"courtS"she"is"upset."
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RON"WATERS:""Upset"about"what?"
TYRON"ALI:"Arlene."
RON"WATERS:""Arlene"who?"
TYRON"ALI:"Green."
VANESSA"BROWN:""She"dont"want"her."None"of"the"other"judges"want"her"on"there.""
RON"WATERS:""Oh!"
VANESSA"BROWN:""The"sitting"judges"dont"want"her."
TYRON"ALI:"Because"of"atSwill,"because"she"
VANESSA"BROWN:""Well"because"she"dont"work!"She"dont"work!"
RON"WATERS:""Yea,"she"dont"work."Shes"on"drugs."
TYRON"ALI:"Well"theres"a"reason"she"doesnt"work."
RON"WATERS:""Forever."And"shes"going"to"stay"on"it"until"she"can"claim"permanent"disability."She"
doesnt"want"to"work."
TYRON"ALI:"Heres"the"problemS"let"me"make"sure"that"this"is"the"problem,"because"they"cannot"remove"
her.""
VANESSA"BROWN:""I"know"this."
TYRON"ALI:"You"can"say"whatever"you"want"but"shes"a"sitting"judge."
RON"WATERS:""But"she"aint"comin,"she"might"not"ever"come"back"to"work."
TYRON"ALI:"Maybe"not."Now"um."
RON"WATERS:"""Thats"Jewells"candidate.""
TYRON"ALI:"Thats"exactly"why."Remember"when"he"was"walking"around,"Hey!"Her"daughter"is""you"
might"want"to"hire"her"(laughs)."Look"Im"going"to"choke!"
RON"WATERS:""I"dont"know"how."
TYRON"ALI:"Thats"what"I"said!"I"dont"know"how!"
RON"WATERS:""She"looks"a"little"bit"like"her"mom.""
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TYRON"ALI:"No"she"doesnt!"(Laughs)"You"know"she"just"finished"up"at"West"Virginia"Tech."Smart"girl"too."
Its"just"amazing"how"the"apple"fell"so"far"from"the"tree.""
RON"WATERS:""Far!!"It"had"to"man."You"gotta"give"her"some"credit."Some"kudos."That"girl."
TYRON"ALI:"(Laughing)"When"we"would"get"together"wed"just"laugh"cause"its"so"funny."Oh"its"funny."
VANESSA"BROWN:""Its"not"fair,"you"guys"have"so"much"more"to"look"than"us"young"ladies."
RON"WATERS:""What"do"you"mean?"So"much"more"to"look"at?"What"you"talking"about"baby?"Youre"
supposed"to"be"married,"not"supposed"to"be"looking."I"told"her,"I"said,"SS"
TYRON"ALI:"(Laughing)"Thank"you."
WAITRESS:""Youre"welcome.""Ok"we"have(Describes7the7available7desserts)."
RON"WATERS:""Whats"that"one"on"the"side?"
WAITRESS:""Malibu"rum,"pineapple"and"coconut"cake."
RON"WATERS:""Malibu"rum"
VANESSA"BROWN:""That"sounds"like"you."Tooty"fruity"(Laughs)"
RON"WATERS:""Does"sound"like"I"got"something"wrong"with"me."It"does"sound"like"me."
VANESSA"BROWN:""It"does"sound"like"you."
RON"WATERS:""Which"one"dois"popular?"
WAITRESS:""I"mean"theyre"all"pretty"popular."Everyone"orders"different"stuff"
RON"WATERS:""Ok."
VANESSA"BROWN:""You"know"what"you"want.""
RON"WATERS:""I"think"Im"going"to"have"
WAITRESS:""You"want"this"one?"
TYRON"ALI:"What"you"do"is"you"eat"one"and"you"can"box"one."
WAITRESS:""To"go?"
RON"WATERS:""No,"no."
TYRON"ALI:"Just"order"two!"
RON"WATERS:""No,"no,"no,"no."
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TYRON"ALI:"Bring"him"two,"just"put"on"in"a"box."Ron!"Stop!"Please,"have"a"good"time,"tomorrow"youre"
done."Um,"this"one.""
WAITRESS:""Ok."
TYRON"ALI:"Same"thing"hes"having.""
RON"WATERS:""My"man."
VANESSA"BROWN:""Take"it"back"home."
TYRON"ALI:"I"got"you"brother.""
VANESSA"BROWN:""You"going"back"home?"
TYRON"ALI:"I"was"up"in"the"hallway"right,"up"in"the"hallway."Dude"come"hit"me"with"all"of"this."I"said,"he"
said,"I"see"your"ring"there."I"said,"Ok."Yea."You"know"what"I"mean?"Trying"to"get"something"out"of"
me."Dont"ask"me"for"nothing"man."Four"years"ago"yall"wouldnt"even"talk"to"me."Dont"go"with"that"
now.""
RON"WATERS:""Did"you"know"that"he"had"a"dinner"the"other"night?"Right?"
TYRON"ALI:"Mm"Hmm."
RON"WATERS:""Did"you"know"that?"That"he"had"a"dinner?"
TYRON"ALI:"At"some"point,"we"need"to"get"that"whole"caucus"together."I"dont"know."Probably"in,"maybe"
in"March."At"the"end"of"this,"beginning"of"next"month.""
RON"WATERS:""Ok."Ok."
TYRON"ALI:"You"know"that?"
RON"WATERS:""You"know,"this"is"something"that"Vanessa"and"I"and"another"member"talked"about."
Establishing"
TYRON"ALI:"What?"How"fantastic"it"is"that"youre"the"chair?"
RON"WATERS:""Yea"(Laughing.)"
TYRON"ALI:"Oh.""(Laughing.)"
VANESSA"BROWN:""Yes."Now"we"have"Mr."Wonka"(Inaudible)"
TYRON"ALI:"Let"me"know."Let"me"know."
VANESSA"BROWN:""Its"just"a"phone"call."
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RON"WATERS:""The"ACC"wont"do"nothing"with"us."
VANESSA"BROWN:""No."They"could"care"less"about"us.""
TYRON"ALI:"Say"what"you"just"said"because"I"didnt"hear"the"last"part.""
RON"WATERS:""The"ACCC"wont"
TYRON"ALI:"Oh."Oh.""
RON"WATERS:""They"dont"care."If"we"lose,"they"wont"cry."They"go,"Were"alright"if"we"lose"to"another"
democrat."
VANESSA"BROWN:""And"they"keep"asking"us"(Inaudible)"
TYRON"ALI:"Well.""You"can"create"a"subScommittee"PAC."
RON"WATERS:""Yea.""
TYRON"ALI:"And"each"committee"could"have"a"subScommittee"where"you"divide"treasurer"and"a"
secretary."Instead"of"having"one,"you"have"four."
RON"WATERS:""Thats"something"I"want"to"establish"in"my"tenure"too."
TYRON"ALI:"Ok."Ok."
RON"WATERS:""And"we"have"frontSrunners."
VANESSA"BROWN:""We"said"we"want"to"start"initiating"dues"with"our"members."We"have"to"raise"money"
to"put"in"the"PAC"because"if"we"dont"invest"in"ourselves,"how"is"somebody"else"going"to"do"that?"
TYRON"ALI:"Well,"I"want"to"tell"you"something."Part"of"the"issueSIm"going"to"tell"you"this"because"were"
friendsone"of"your"members"said"to"me"yesterday,"Well"you"know,"we"need"to"know"our"place."I"
said,"What?"What"place"is"that?"What"place"is"that?"
VANESSA"BROWN:""Excuse"me?"
RON"WATERS:""When"you"say"one"of"our"members,"you"mean"a"Democrat"or,"not"black"caucus?"
VANESSA"BROWN:""That"sounds"like"
TYRON"ALI:"Believe"me."A"democrat."
VANESSA"BROWN:""Cause"that"sounds"like"a"dog."
RON"WATERS:""We"need"to"know"our"place?"
TYRON"ALI:"They"have"never"seen"the"caucus"as"something:"1."Vital"and"2."Important."Now"I"understand,"
I"mean,SS"
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TYRON"ALI:"No,"not"him.""I"told"Thaddeus"when"you"became"the"chair,"I"said,"Let"me"tell"you"something."
Sometimes"you"have"to"want"to"see"something"done."And"if"that"is"the"spirit"with"you"come"to"the"table"
with,"then"you"let"somebody"else"do"it"if"you"cant."Dont"be"malicious"in"your"support."Have"some"
integrity."Because"Maclin"and"a"couple"of"the"other"boys"from"the"minority"subScontractors,"theyre"like,"
Ty,"what"you"gonna"do?"I"said,"Well,"I"know"Ron."Its"not"that"difficult"to"have"a"conversation."But"we"
need"some"kind"of"cohesiveness,"you"know?"When"was"the"last"time"you"talked"to"him?"
RON"WATERS:""Right."He"came"to"my"office,"him"and"the"attorney,"Secretary"Jim?"Whats"his"name?"
TYRON"ALI:"Jim."I"dont"know"his"last"name"but"I"know"who"youre"talking"about."
RON"WATERS:""We"had"a"good"meeting."Jim,"the"other"guy"he"brought"with"him,"he"knows"his"stuff"
about"contracts."Inside"and"out."He"knows"a"lot"of"stuff."
TYRON"ALI:"He"knows"a"lot"about..."Hes"very"similar."Do"you"remember"Hanford?"Hanford"Jones?"He"
used"to"work"for"Roundtree."Hes"like"a"walking"encyclopedia,"man,"about"minority"contractor"
requirements."AScertification"requirements,"I"mean"hes"a"very"very"smart"guy."But"again,"book"smart,"
because"they"cant"do"anything"with"it."They"dont"know,"they"dont"know"how"to"get"behind"the"curtain."
You"know?"
RON"WATERS:""Right.""
TYRON"ALI:"Which"is"unfortunate"but"
RON"WATERS:""Theory"is"one"thing,"but"practice"is"something"else."
TYRON"ALI:"True."
SS02:43:42SS"
RON"WATERS:""I"like"whipped"cream."
VANESSA"BROWN:""I"bet"you"do.""
TYRON"ALI:"See,"Im"about"to"excuse"myself."
(Laughing)"
RON"WATERS:""No,"this"is"nothing."We"talk"crass"together"all"the"time."You"know"what"I"mean?"You"know"
who"else"is"bad?"
VANESSA"BROWN:""Who?"
RON"WATERS:""Louise"Williams"Bishop."
(Laughing)"
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TYRON"ALI:"I"had"breakfast"with"her"last"week,"Thursday."Thats"my"lady."
VANESSA"BROWN:""When"she"starts"talking"about"her"past"
RON"WATERS:""She"talkin"crass"
VANESSA"BROWN:""Shes"seen"some"stuff"in"her"day."
RON"WATERS:""She"has"a"comment"today"dealing"with"something"with"the"legislation"with"the"children"
who"have"been"victimized"by"sexual"predators."I"told"everyone,"You"haveI"been"with"you"for"a"long"
time."You"can"tell""
VANESSA"BROWN:""And"her"prayer"today,"her"prayer"today"for"Donatucci"was"beautiful."
RON"WATERS:""She"was"on"point"today."Gotta"give"it"to"her.""
TYRON"ALI:"She"called"me"when"my"grandmother"died"and"prayed"with"me"on"the"phone."
VANESSA"BROWN:""Wow."
TYRON"ALI:"But"you"know,"when"her"son"passed"away,"both"my"wife"and"I,"we"were"right"in"the"room"
when"he"died."You"know?"
RON"WATERS:""How?"
TYRON"ALI:"Yea,"sarcoidosis."
RON"WATERS:""I"never"heard"of"it."One"of"those"rare"diseases."
TYRON"ALI:"Mm"Hmm."
RON"WATERS:""Deadly."
VANESSA"BROWN:""My"family"tells"me,"they"listen."I"have"all"sinners."They"listen"to"her"video.""
TYRON"ALI:""She"makes"me"laugh.""
VANESSA"BROWN:""She"says"my"name"all"the"time"on"the"air."She"says,"Oh,"we"always"talking"about"
you!"
SS02:45:30SS"
TYRON"ALI:"Hey,"just"out"of"curiosity,"what"are"they"going"to"do"with"Maria"anyway?"You"hear"anything?"
RON"WATERS:""What"you"mean?"
TYRON"ALI:"I"heard"they"were"going"to"put"her"on"liquor,"man."
RON"WATERS:""No."
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TYRON"ALI:"Then"I"heard"no."
RON"WATERS:""Nope."
TYRON"ALI:"Then"I"heard"yes."Then"I"heard"no."And"from"what"I"understand"her"brotherSinSlaw"is"
contemplating"something"else."Right."No"cause"we"talked"to"them"the"week"before."
VANESSA"BROWN:""She"might"get"up"there"and"like"it."
TYRON"ALI:"Right!"You"know"it"only"takes"on"session"for"you"to"understand,"that"this"is"a"good"place"to"
be"for"10"years."
VANESSA"BROWN:""Especially"if"it"helps"her"to"stay"close"to"her"husband."
TYRON"ALI:"(Laughs)"Well,"especially"for"the"health"care."
RON"WATERS:""She,"well"hes"not"going"to"be"able"to"control"this"election,"the"special"election."Is"it"
open?"Wide"open?"They"going"to"be"lined"up?"
TYRON"ALI:"It"is"going"to"be"difficult."
RON"WATERS:""Its"going"to"be"difficult."We"better"have"a"candidate."
TYRON"ALI:"WellSS"
RON"WATERS:""He"cant"have"it"both"ways.""
TYRON"ALI:"Heres"the"thing,"he"will"be"the"candidate"
RON"WATERS:""Why"he"want"to"run?"He"dont"want"to"come"up"here,"man."Run"the"other"way."
VANESSA"BROWN:""Why?"
RON"WATERS:""Hes"got"all"those"jobs"in"control."Make"more"money."
TYRON"ALI:"Well"think"about"it"like"this."Sometimes,"the"ego"gets"in"the"way"of"money."You"know?"Power"
trip."He"might"even"put"somebody"else"up"to"run"against"(?)"
RON"WATERS:""Oh"you"mean"not"him"coming"up"personally."You"mean"somebody"else"run"against."
TYRON"ALI:"All"of"those"things."All"of"those"things"are"possible."
RON"WATERS:""Oh"yea."I"dont"doubt"that."
TYRON"ALI:"Theres"one"girl"that"works"for"him,"Tootie,"thats"my"girl."
RON"WATERS:""Yea."Yea."
TYRON"ALI:"Vanessas"looking"at"me"like,"You"know"Tootie?"(Laughs)"
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T""57""March"1st,"2011"
RON"WATERS:""Yea."I"saw"her"the"other"day."
VANESSA"BROWN:""Let"me"find"out."Let"me"find"out"some"stuff."Im"going"to"keep"my"eye"on"you."
TYRON"ALI:"(Laughing)"
RON"WATERS:""When"did"I"see"her?"Was"she"in"DC"yesterday?"I"think"she"was"in"DC"yesterday."
TYRON"ALI:"She"was"down"there?"
TYRON"ALI:"They"having"a"ward"leaders"meeting"down,"actually"I"think"its"in"my"building,"I"think"its"
tomorrow"night."North"Philadelphia"Ward"Leaders"something."Because"Mike"Joyner,"Mike"Joyner"
RON"WATERS:""Ok."
TYRON"ALI:"You"know,"Rosita"called"me"like,"Hey"look"you"know,"cause"she"dont"get"along"with"Cheryl,"
right?"
RON"WATERS:""She"dont?"
TYRON"ALI:"Uh"uh."
RON"WATERS:""Who"does"she"get"along"with"then?"
VANESSA"BROWN:""She"dont"get"along"with"her"damn"self."
RON"WATERS:""I"dont"know"who"she"gets"along"with.""I"think"shes"smart"enough."I"think"she"knows"a"
lot."But"she"just"be"all"over"the"place."She"was"at"that"there"event"we"was"at"last"week"and"told"Mike"
um"
VANESSA"BROWN:""Mike"who?"
RON"WATERS:""The"Shop"Rite"event"
TYRON"ALI:"Mike"Brown."
VANESSA"BROWN:""Mike"Vatcher."
RON"WATERS:""She"told"him"off.""
VANESSA"BROWN:""I"dont"think"he"was"invited."
RON"WATERS:""I"think"he"was"invited"cause"she"wanted"to"speak."I"guess"she"wanted"to"speak."He"told"
her"off."
VANESSA"BROWN:""I"thought"you"said"she"told"him"off."
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RON"WATERS:""Oh"yea."He"didnt"pay"it"no"mind,"because"he"like,"you"know"he"understand"what"kind"of"
person"she"is."You"cant"satisfy"her."
TYRON"ALI:"You"know"what?"He"and"the"other"gentleman,"Brown,"theyre"very"very"smart."
RON"WATERS:""Jeff."
TYRON"ALI:"Thats"it."Jeff"Brown."Yea."Good"people."Good"people."Heres"the"problem."Because"its"such"
an"unregulated"industry,"they"may,"if"someone"calls"them,"they"may"actually"provide"the"produce,"but"
thats"not"enough."When"you"take"a"look"at"the"revenues"they"receive"as"opposed"to"the"dollars"
reinvested,"it"is"a"miniscule"amount."Dont"worry."
VANESSA"BROWN:""And,"I"cant"tell"you"what"Jewells"spent,"like"$30,000"in"grant"money"with"them."
RON"WATERS:""Who"Jewells?"
VANESSA"BROWN:""Yes."And"then"every"time"who"comes"in"the"office,"he"gives"a"voucher."
RON"WATERS:""Oh,"yea."
TYRON"ALI:"Its"helpful."
VANESSA"BROWN:""And"it"keeps"him"elected.""
TYRON"ALI:"Mm"Hmm,"its"helpful."
VANESSA"BROWN:""Because"hes"always"giving"out"vouchers."
RON"WATERS:""He"has"the"um"
TYRON"ALI:"Shirley"does"it"too?"
RON"WATERS:""Uh"huh."
TYRON"ALI:"Oh."Thanks."
RON"WATERS:""He"has"his"way."But"the,"see"Jewells"used"to"get"his"money"through"Dwight."Dwight"gave,"
thats"what"Im"saying"
VANESSA"BROWN:""He"probably"just"took"it"into"the"super"market"and"they"just"recycle"the"money"
around."
TYRON"ALI:"They"got"that"piece,"that"lady"in"Germantown."Shes"got"like"a"$15,000,000"approval"letter"to"
build"a"supermarket"up"in"the"Northwest."Shes"got"the"letter."I"havent"seen"it,"but"Ive"got"it"on"good"
grounds"that"shes"got"the"letter."Unfortunately,"she"couldnt"move"Dwight"where"she"needed"him,"you"
know,"so."Wendell"Whitlock"and"the"other"fool"is"asking"me"something"about,"Would"you"help"up"get"
the"money"for"the"next"grocery?"I"said,"Let"me"tell"you"something."I"told"you"guys,"you"want"me,"its"
half"a"million"dollars."Dont"come"to"the"table"unless"youve"got"my"money"bro!"
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RON"WATERS:""Mm"Hmm."Mm"Hmm."
TYRON"ALI:"(Laughs)"And"I"can"say"that!"
RON"WATERS:""Right."Right.""
TYRON"ALI:"Cause"I"got"my"business"card!"
RON"WATERS:""Ok."Ok."
TYRON"ALI:"(Laughs)"Its"like,"because"Shirley"said"to"me,"this"is"going"back"years,"shes"like,"What"do"
you"think?"I"said,"I"dont"think"unless"Im"paid.""
TYRON"ALI:"(Laughs)"She"looked"at"me"sideways,"upside"down."All"around."
RON"WATERS:""(Laughs)"Thats"cool.""
TYRON"ALI:"It"is"what"it"is."We"all"went"to"school."Hard"knocks"or"otherwise."And"youre"not"going"to"
provide"me"with"any"sense"of"direction,"unless"that"path"leads"to"the"bank."
VANESSA"BROWN:""A"depository.""
TYRON"ALI:"It"is"what"it"is."Years"ago,"what"would"I"tell"you?"Ron,"you"know,"it"took"me"years"before"I"was"
able"to"say"to"myself,"Wait"a"second!"You"could"do"this"for"you!"
RON"WATERS:""Yea,"yea.""
TYRON"ALI:"You"know?"You"dont"have"to"be"under"the"thumb"of"a"law"firm,"you"know?"You"dont"have"
to."You"take"the"initiative"to"learn"the"issues,"you"develop"a"sense"of"what"is"right"and"what"is"for"right"
now."And"that"is"how"you"runSS"
WAITRESS:""Do"you"want"a"small"box?"
TYRON"ALI:"No."
WAITRESS:""Youre"done"with"it?"
TYRON"ALI:"Did"you"get"one"for"him"to"go?"
WAITRESS:""Yes,"its"right"here."Yup."Do"you"want"a"little"box"for"your"potato"skin"or"are"you"done"with"
it?"
VANESSA"BROWN:""No."Im"finished."
WAITRESS:""And"is"it"separate"checks"or"one?"
TYRON"ALI:"No,"its"one."
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WAITRESS:""Alright."
TYRON"ALI:"You"kicking"us"out?"
WAITRESS:""No!""
TYRON"ALI:"Alright."
WAITRESS:""Im"leaving"soon."I"have"to"go"to"my"other"job."
TYRON"ALI:"Uh"oh."
RON"WATERS:""Other"job?"
TYRON"ALI:"Youre"working"hard."
VANESSA"BROWN:""After"this?"What"do"you"do?"
WAITRESS:""Well"I"just"started"at"the"brew"house"so"I"gotta"train"tonight."The"one"girl"is"leaving,"this"is"
her"last"night."And"they"want"her"to"train"me."Ive"been"here"six"years"but"I"got"a"fullStime"job"over"there"
bartending"so,"yea."
WAITRESS:""Yea."I"worked"from"10:00"this"morning"and"now"I"gotta"go"over"there"but"I"can"have"
somebody"check"on"you"still."
VANESSA"BROWN:""Yea."
TYRON"ALI:"You"can"send"the"check"though"so"we"can"take"care"of"you."
WAITRESS:""Yea,"thats"why"the"check"is"right"here."
TYRON"ALI:"Awesome,"thank"you."
SS02:53:55SS"
TYRON"ALI:"At"this"level"in"the"game,"they"sat"me"down"with"some"bulls"from"Allegheny"County"last"
night.""
RON"WATERS:""Really?"
TYRON"ALI:"(Laughs)"Im"saying"to"myself,"Well"what"could"we"possibly"have"in"common?"Turns"out"we"
have"a"lot"in"common."Shale."
RON"WATERS:""Who?"
TYRON"ALI:"Shale"coalition."It"will"allSS"Its"pretty"sad"that"Philadelphia,"that"whats"going"to"happen"in"
Philadelphia."
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VANESSA"BROWN:"""Right,"cause"we"dont"get"the"local"share"that"they"got"that"money,"it"stays"up"there.""
TYRON"ALI:"But"at"the"same"time"
VANESSA"BROWN:""We"cant"even"get"our"guys"jobs"out"there."
TYRON"ALI:"But"at"the"same"time,"you"may"be"able"to"be"helpful."
RON"WATERS:""Up"there"in"the"Northeast?"Remember,"we"supposed"to"take"a"tour"up"there?"I"got"to"talk"
to"Dorothy"about"that."
VANESSA"BROWN:""I"watched"on"PCN"yesterday"at"their"training"facility"in"Williamsport."
TYRON"ALI:"A"bunch"of"young"guys"who"dont"know"anything."
VANESSA"BROWN:""Theyre"making"lots"of"money."
TYRON"ALI:"But"they"dont"know"anything!""
RON"WATERS:""Its"about"100"miles"outside"of"Philly."You"go"to"a"plant."You"just"got"to"relocate"or"stay"
and"come"home"on"the"weekends."
VANESSA"BROWN:""Yea."Thats"right."
RON"WATERS:""You"know,"just"like"the"laborers"do."332."
VANESSA"BROWN:""Lord"have"mercy,"these"boys"are"making,"what?"$30S$40"an"hour!"
TYRON"ALI:"But"whos"going"to"do"it?"Who..?"Let"me"ask"you"something."Charlie"Whiting"from"(?)."You"
think"theyre"going"to"be"savvy"enough"to"put"togetherSS"
WAITRESS:""Whenever"youre"ready."
TYRON"ALI:"You"can"take"it"now"honey.""You"think"theyre"going"to"be"savvy"enough"to"say,"Oh,"well"
were"going"to"put"together"a"training"program"and"look"for"some"dollars"to"get"that"done."I"dont"need"
any"change,"love."
WAITRESS:""Ok,"thank"you"very"much."
TYRON"ALI:"I"just"need"a"receipt."
WAITRESS:""You"can"have"this"one.""
TYRON"ALI:"Thank"you,"darling."
WAITRESS:""Thank"you"very"much"guys."Have"a"good"night."
VANESSA"BROWN:""Good"night."Good"luck!"
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WAITRESS:""Thank"you!"
TYRON"ALI:"Now"if"they"could"put"together"
RON"WATERS:""Whoa"whoa"hold"up."You"gave"her"two"hundreds?"Or"two"fifties?"
VANESSA"BROWN:""Yea!"
RON"WATERS:""Oh"two"fifties."I"was"about"to"say,"shit.""
TYRON"ALI:"She"wasnt"that"cute!"Come"on!"
RON"WATERS:""No!"Man,"I"was"about"to"ask"you,"get"some"glasses"for"you,"brother."
(Laughing)"
RON"WATERS:""I"been"with"you"too"many"times"brother"and"I"know"how"you"tip!"
(Laughing)"
RON"WATERS:""At"the"union"league"you"give"a"hundred."Shit,"she"wasnt"that"nice!"
SS02:56:08SS"
TYRON"ALI:"Oh."But"the"thing"to"look"at"putting"together"a"public"school"program."I"considered."
VANESSA"BROWN:""You"got"to"incorporate,"thats"right."You"need"a"boarding"place"for"that."
TYRON"ALI:"I"considered"looking"at"the"Marine"Institute"for"that."Heres"the"problem:""
RON"WATERS:""They"still"dont"have"any"accreditation."
TYRON"ALI:"Well"the"accreditation"is"not"really"the"issue."The"issue"is"the"management."The"chick"whos"
whos"the"president,"she"asked"me"to"come"in"after"that"whole"spencer"meltdown."I"told"her,"I"said,"
Look,"its"$30,000"a"month"if"you"could"swing"it."She"was"like,"I"could"for"a"short"time."I"said,"No,"I"
dont"live"like"that."It"has"to"be"a"longSterm"engagement."But"I"would"help"them."Because"when"they"
were,"when"they"had"applied"for"that"$18,000,000,"I"was"the"one"who"wrote"the"proposal."We"couldnt"
get"it"through"because"there"was"Dwight"and"Shirley"and"Kim"and"everyone."Lorie"and"Leon,"it"was"crazy."
But"I"said"to"myself,"Thats"one"thing"I"want."If"they"come"to"me"with"some"kind"of"sensible"plan,"
something"sensible,"because"even"though"they"may"not"have"their"accreditation"you"can"credit"specific"
courses."You"follow"what"Im"saying?"
VANESSA"BROWN:""Interesting."What"about"a"(inaudible)."Do"you"know"them?"Do"you"know"Arta?"She"
has"a"training"program,"she"trains"for"Shop"Rite."
TYRON"ALI:"No"I"dont."
VANESSA"BROWN:""Shes"down"at"JFK"at"Love"Park."
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TYRON"ALI:"Oh,"shes"across"the"street"from"us."
VANESSA"BROWN:""In"a"beautiful"facility"there."
TYRON"ALI:"See"this"would"need"a"real"corporate"partner."Like"a"credit"card"company."But"see,"I"dont"
want"to"use"my"relationships"unless"I"have"a"relationship."
RON"WATERS:""Yea."
VANESSA"BROWN:""Do"you"still"have,"what"is"it?"HSB?"
TYRON"ALI:"HSBC"
VANESSA"BROWN:""Hong"Kong,"Shanghai."
TYRON"ALI:"Hong"Kong,"Shanghai."Yup."One"of"their"boys"is"on"our"board."
VANESSA"BROWN:""Theyre"in"my"district."Theyre"both"financial"firms."Why"are"they"there?"They"need"a"
better"area."
TYRON"ALI:"Can"I"tell"you"something?"Can"I"tell"you"something?"Every"bank"has"something"called"CRA"
compliance"that"they"have"to"sorta"put"up"with."Because"its,"itsthe"banking"industry"has"checks"and"
balances"for"the"folks"who"are"actually"reinvesting"real"dollars"back"into"the"community."Um,"me"
personally,"I"prefer"Wachovia."I"think,"you"know,"PNC"is"good"too."PNC,"throughout"the"entire"financial"
meltdown,"they"remained"solvent."Very"good"bank,"I"like"Wachovia."HSBC"has"a"lot"of"money.""
TYRON"ALI:"Lots"and"lots"of"money."
VANESSA"BROWN:""And"theyre"not"giving"us"any."Theyre"giving"some"classes."
TYRON"ALI:"Well"again,"you"know,"if"you"move"from"here,"and"you"say"well,"maybe"I"know"somebody"
who"was"a"lobbyist"or"is"a"lobbyist"and"might"have"real"experience"with"the"banking"industry.because"
Jim,"from"the"West"Philadelphia"Financial"Institute,"he"cant"offer"you"that"kind"of"help"because"hes"not"
a"banker."Theyre"small"business"lenders"and"theyre"not"even"that."You"know,"we"have"real"experience.""
I"mean"look"at"those"Hilal"Bilal"restaurants,"nobody"helped"them"out.""I"remember"Curtis"calling"me,"Ty,"
you"better"call"Feldman"because"uh"we"getting"we"sitting"to"foreclose.""I"said,"Can"I"tell"you"
something?""I"dare"you"to"foreclose"because"youre"going"to"have"about"fiveShundred"brothers"looking"
for"them"two"jobs.""
Ron"Waters:"UhShuh."
Tyron"Ali:"At"13th"and"Walnut.""He"never"tried"it.""He"never"tried"cause"they"knew"It"was"real.""You"know"
what"I"mean?""You"threaten"us"all"you"want,"brother.""We"aint"[sic.]"paying"no"mortgages!"
[laughter]""
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SS03:00:38SS"
Tyron"Ali:"I"am"[inaudible]"number"twelve"up"so"quick.""
Vanessa"Brown:"[inaudible]."
Tyron"Ali:"You"should"write"it"on.""Thats"what"I"told"him.""I"think"thats"what"they"actually"did"do"because"
of"Boo"(?)"got"sick"and"that"was"it.""
Ron"Waters:"How,"hows"he"doing"now?"
Tyron"Ali:"Hes"not"doing"good.""The"problem"with"him,"you"know,"he"just"wouldnt"listen,"man."He"just"
wouldnt" listen." " Because" we" got" him" up" to" nineSthousand" dollars" a" week." " And" then" when," when" the"
vendors" would" come" around," you" know," the" bread" guy," the" meat" guy," would" come" around" for" a"
payment,"he"would"just"hand"them"a"little"brown"bag,"like"Here,"hold"this."Cant"do"that.""Youve"got"to"
have"a"bank"account.""Youve"got"to"be"able"[laughter]"""
Ron"Waters:"Yeah."
Tyron"Ali:"Youre"running"things"like,"you"know,"Sam"Christian"days.""You"know"what"I"mean?"
[Laughter]"
Tyron"Ali:"I"see"[inaudible]"the"film.""Did"you"see"the"film?""
Ron"Waters:"Which"one?"
Tyron"Ali:"Uh,"American"Gangster.""
Ron"Waters:"Uh"no.""
Tyron"Ali:"Bo!Baines!(?).""I"wanted"them"to"put"Youngblood"on"there.""
[Laughter]"
Ron"Waters:"[inaudible].""Criticize"everybody,"man.""[Inaudible]."Hes"a"horrible"man."[Inaudible].""Ill"tell"
you"theres"probably"[inaudible].""I"said,"Why"they"calling"up"saying"his"name"is"George?"And"then"he"
said,"Yea,"his"names"[inaudible]"Youngblood.""
[Laughter]"
Ron"Waters:"But"they"didnt"go"into"the"details"of"his"past."
Tyron"Ali:"Right.""Right."
3:02:17"
Ron"Waters:"Hes"got"a"lot"of"nerve"trying,"trying"criticizing"me.""[Inaudible]."
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Tyron"Ali:"Let"me"ask"you"something.""How"soon"do"you"think"you"can"talk"to"your"folks"about"putting"
together"the"PAC?"
Ron"Waters:"I"need"to""
Vanessa"Brown:""Its"just"a"phone"call.""
Ron"Waters:"Well,"yeah."
Vanessa"Brown:"You"need"a"treasurer"
Ron"Waters:"Yeah.""
Vanessa"Brown:"a"chairman"
Tyron"Ali:"And"a"secretary."
Vanessa"Brown:"And"a"phone"call"to"the"[inaudible].""Citing"number"and"you"go"to"the"bank"and"get"your"
paper.""Take"it"to"the"bank"and"set"up"your"account.""You"can"do"it"in"less"than"twentySfour"hours.""As"
long"as"you"have"your"treasurer,"youre"good,"youre"fine.""
Ron"Waters:"[inaudible]""
Tyron"Ali:"And"how"long"does"the"government"take,"sir?""Who"is"the"government?""How"long"you"going"
to"take"to"do"it?"
Ron"Waters:"Me?""
Tyron"Ali:"Do"it"by"Friday.""
Ron"Waters:"Okay.""
Tyron"Ali:"Its"the"start,"its,"its"the"start"of"the"end"of"the"first"quarter."
Vanessa"Brown:"Who"are"we"going"to"get"to"be"the"chairman"and"the"treasurer?""
Ron"Waters:"[inaudible]"treasurer.""We"shouldnt"need"that.""
Vanessa"Brown:"No.""
Tyron"Ali:"No.""
Vanessa"Brown:"Or"the"chairman.""
Tyron"Ali:"You"just"direct"the"programs.""See"if"you"can"direct"the"programs,"well"be"able"to"get"what"we"
need"immediately.""Because"that"
Ron"Waters:"[inaudible]"the"PAC"would"not"be"proposed.""
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Tyron"Ali:"Hear"me"out.""Hear"me"out.""You"can"use"it"for"political"contributions."
Ron"Waters:"Right."
Tyron"Ali:"But"you"never,"ever"set"up"just"a"PAC.""Its"like"setting"up"a"forSprofit"and"a"nonSprofit,"you"do"it"
simultaneously.""
Vanessa"Brown:"501"C4.""
Tyron"Ali:"Right."You"know?""You"set"up"a"nonSprofit"and"a"PAC."
Vanessa"Brown:"If"you"do"the"C4,"the"C4"can"have"political"activities.""
Ron"Waters:"Well,"weve"got"that"already.""
Vanessa"Brown:"We"have"the"C4?"
Ron"Waters:"Well,"we"supposed"to"be"the"C4."
Vanessa"Brown:"Then"if"were"the"C4"we"have"it""
Ron"Waters:"We"supposed,"I"mean"the"caucus"is"supposed"to"be"C4.""
3:04:06"
Tyron"Ali:"Ive"never"seen"paperwork."
Ron"Waters:"[inaudible]"we"supposed"to"be"the"C4"and"the"foundation"is"a"C3.""
Vanessa"Brown:"Were"a"C4"
Tyron"Ali:"You"can,"you"can,"the"way"that"you"fund"your"PAC"is"through"money"from"the"program.""Well,"
well"talk"about"it.""You"see"what"Im"saying?""
Ron"Waters:"Yeah.""Yeah,"the"PAC"which"we"would,"we"are"allowing"to"be"for"reSelection"funds"would"be"
both"political.""We"have"the"foundation"for"it,"community"sense.""
Tyron"Ali:"Okay."
Ron"Waters:"And"the"foundation"has"the"capacity"to"raise"its"own"money.""It"has"to"serve,"it"cant"be""
Tyron"Ali:"Tomorrow,"when"I"come"to"your"fundraiser,"right?""Lets"take"a"check"of"who"are"the"largest"
businesses"that"are"going"to"be"there.""
Ron"Waters:"Well,"I"dont"know"about"tomorrow,"because,"you"know,"because"I"didnt"call.""I"just"found"
out"yesterday!"I"thought"it"was"another"day."
Tyron"Ali:"So"youre"not"having"it?"
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(VB7on7telephone7call)7
Ron" Waters:" No!" " I" [inaudible]." " And" Ive" got" some" letters" went" out." And" I" got" a" lot" of" letters" back"
because" a" lot" of" lobbyists" leave" the" business" or" go" to" another" firm." So" we" was" getting" all" returnStoS
senders.""All"last"week"[inaudible].""[inaudible]"
3:05:35"
Tyron"Ali:"You"have"the"new"directory?"
Ron"Waters:"Huh?"
Tyron"Ail:"You"have"the"new"directory"from"PAGR?"
Ron"Waters:"We"get"the"one"from"HTC"2."I"dont"know"where"they"get"theirs"from.""
Tyron"Ali:"No"because"there"are"several"folks"that"have"either"been"terminated"
Ron"Waters:"Right."
Tyron"Ali:"Or"withdrawn"
Ron"Waters:"Right."
Tyron"Ali:"You"need"the"new"one."Right."Ill"get"you"a"copy."
Ron"Waters:"Yea."
Tyron"Ali:"Okay.""
3:06:00"
Ron"Waters:"You"know,"if"we"talk"about"this,"weve"got"to"set"up"a"PAC.""I"mean"some"things"that"Ive"
been"doing,"you"know,"we"got"a"foundation."All"9"slots"are"filled."We"got"good"people"that"are"supposed"
to"be"(inaudible)."
Tyron"Ali:"ButWho?"
Ron" Waters:" Cory" Coleman." With" AmeriHealth." " Theyve" got" two." " They" got" AmeriHealth," the" one" in"
Nashville.""Keystone"is"the"one"local."
Tyron"Ali:"Remember"that"girl"from"health"partners,"Bernadette?"
Ron"Waters:"Yeah."
Tyron"Ali:"Thats"my"girl.""
Ron"waters:"Yeah,"uhShuh."
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Tyron"Ali:"Thats"my"girl."I"mean."
Vanessa"Brown:"Bernadette"Mullins?"
Tyron"Ali:"Mulligan.""
Vanessa"Brown:"Mulligan."
Tyron"Ali:"Yeah."
Vanessa"Brown:"Yeah"shes,"shes"a"very"good"friend."
Tyron"Ali:"UhShuh.""Shes"good"people.""
Vanessa"Brown:"Yeah,"she"is."
Tyron"Ali:"I"just,"its"funny"because"I"told"Knoxs"butler.""He"said,"Listen"man,"we"should"all"have"lunch,"
you"know,"come"over"to"my"place.""You"know,"well"sit"down"and"talk."Cause"the"Chinese"consulate"is"
over"at"Knoxs"house"like"four"days"ago.""And"its"easy"for"me"to"pick"up"the"phone"and"call"his"wife."
3:07:15"
Ron"Waters:"We"need"to"get"on"this,"uh,"PAC"thing"though."
Ron"Waters:"Oh"they"probably"could.""
Tyron"Ali:"Whos"your"treasurer?"
Ron"Waters:"Paula"Wright."Shes"great."
Tyron"Ali:"UhShuh."Not"my"girl"Paula"People?"
[Laughter]"
Ron"Waters:"No."Not"Paula"People.""
Vanessa"Brown:"The"sultan,"whats"his"name?"Oh"no,"Im"thinking"Paula"Patrick."[Inaudible]"
Ron"Waters:"Oh."
Vanessa"Brown:"Whats"her"husbands"name?""
Ron"Waters:"The"judge?"
Vanessa"Brown:"Yea."What"is"her"husbands"name?"Its"on"the"card.""He"says"he"runs"North"Philly.""
[Laughter]"
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Ron"Waters:"I"dont"know"he"must"know"Bill"Reyes.""
[Laughter]"
Tyron"Ali:"Oh"my."
Ron"Waters:"I"dont"know"whos"running"North"Philly.""Aint"[sic.]"nobody"running"North"Philly."""
Vanessa"Brown:"It"looks"like"nobodys"running"North"Philly."Its"a"disaster."
3:08:17"
Tyron"Ali:"Actually"you"know,"you"know"something?""I"dont"know"uh"just,"just"to"revisit"that"North"Philly"
question.""What"do"you"think"about"Mike"Joyner?""What"do"you"think?"
Ron"Waters:"Trying"to"think"of"who"hes"getting"into"first."
Tyron"Ali:"UhShuh."Your"girl."
Ron"Waters:"Oh!"Thats,"you"know,"he"used"to"travel"with"her.""
"[laughter]"
Tyron" Ali:" UhShuh." " Cause" shes" the" one" who" called" me!" " And" that" was" like" yesterday" anywayslook,"
sorry,"but"uh.""
Ron"Waters:"Usually"[inaudible]."
Tyron"Ali:"I"just,"you"know?"
Ron"Waters:"Yeah,"but"whats"going"on"with"him?"Man"cause"I"saw"him"last"week."
Tyron"Ali:"Hes,"hes"too"wishySwashy.""I"was"like,"Yo,"dont"give"up"ten."I"want"to"be"able"to"pick"up"the"
phone"and"call"him,"make"sure"its"not"disconnected.""Hows"that?"
Ron"Waters:"Yeah,"he"came"up"here,"he"came"up"here"a"couple"weeks"ago"
Vanessa"Brown:"Yeah?"
Ron"Waters:"With"some"guys"
Vanessa"Brown:"Did"he"say"a"few"words"to"the"wise?""
Ron"Waters:"From"the"uh"taxi"cab"driver"
Vanessa"Brown:"With"the"terrible"Germantown"cab."
Ron"Waters:"Yeah"the"Germantown"cab"company."
Vanessa"Brown:"My"mom"said"its"the"worst"cab"company"in"the"city."
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Ron"Waters:"They"dont"want"to"belong"to,"to,"to"the"
Vanessa"Brown:"Theyre"terrible!"
Ron"Water:"To"the"Parking"Authoritys"regulations.""
3:09:30"
Tyron" Ali:" Well" they," they" because," because" they" made" their" due" with" Mike" and" Perzel" when" he" was"
there.""Now"theyve"got"two"Russians"over"in"there,"right?""The"daughter"and"the"father."
Ron"Waters:"Right."Yeah,"right."
Vanessa"Brown:"Theyre"terrible."
Tyron"Ali:"Well,"as"far"as"theyre"concerned,"theyre"doing"a"great"job.""
Vanessa" Brown:" She" said" she" had" to" get" out" of" the" cab" because" it" had" gotten" so" hot." She" said," Im"
getting"out!"Pull"over!"
Tyron"Ali:"Now"that"the"Dominicans"got"in"game,"you"know,"because"they"transporting"the"drugs"in"the"
taxis"right?"
Ron"Waters:"Nah."
[Laughter]"
Vanessa"Brown:"You"know"my"mom"reported"the"guy"and"then"the"next"day,"shes"in"another"cab"
Tyron"Ali:"And"then"the"tow"trucks."
Vanessa"Brown:"and"the"cab"driver"drives"past"by"her"like"this,"You"reported"me!"
Ron"Waters:"Oh"my."
Vanessa"Brown:"Like"he"was"going"to"get"out"and"beat"her"up."
Tyron"Ali:"What"Im"saying"to"you"is"this:"the"people"that"they"purchase,"because"you"know"there"was"a"
part" of" the" legislation" thats" in" place" requires" all" of" the" taxi" cabs" that" hold" medallions" to" adhere" to"
specific"rules"and"regulations"including"where"they"purchase"their"paper"from,"the"rolls"of"paper"for"the"
receipt."
Ron"Waters:"Right."
Tyron" Ali:" Mike" Evenman," such" a" smart" guy," created" this" insurance" company" down" in" West" Virginia,"
where"they"all"must"be"insured."
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SS3:10:47SS"
Tyron"Ali:"Now"I"can,"if"we"can"propose"something"that"may"be"helpful?"
Ron"Waters:"Sounds"good.""Im"doing"something"with"uh,"I"want"to"make..."I"went"to"some"states"where"
you"cant"hail"a"cab"from"the"street."
Tyron"Ali:"UhShuh."
Vanessa"Brown:"You"have"to"call."
Ron"Waters:"You"gotta"[sic.]"call."They"only"can"take"phone"calls.""I"think"it"was"in"Atlanta."I"know"Atlanta"
is"one"of"them.""I"think"we"should"have"it"in"Pennsylvania,"at"least"in"Philly.""
Vanessa"Brown:"Really?"
Ron"Waters:"Yeah,"I"cant"stand"the"way"these"cabs"operate"out"there."They"pull"over"and"they"make"US
turns,"man,"they"run"through"red"lights.""You"know,"they"block"traffic.""
Tyron"Ali:"Now,"there"are"a"lot"of"Indian"people"who"would"be"interested"
Ron"Waters:"In"that?"I"thought"thatSSS"
Tyron"Ali:"Of"course"because"youve"got"everybody"up"in,"up"in"Upper"Darby"and"Yeadon.""
Ron"Waters:"Right."
Tyron"Ali:"Upper"Darby,"Yeadon,"and"certain"parts"of"West"Philadelphia"who"are"nothing"but"cab"drivers.""
Ron"Waters:"Right.""Yeah."
Tyron"Ali:"You"know?""
Ron"Waters:"See,"I"already"called,"its"being"drafted.""Thats"what"I"want"to"do.""They"should"not"be"able"
to,"we"gotta"[sic.]"control"over"them."Over"at"the"Parking"Authority,"man.""Id,"Id"never"forget"I"called"
this"cab.""I"called"them"through"what"you"call"a"1034"request,"that"means"I"got"a"car"that"was"illegally"
parked"that"needs"to"be"town."He"called"and"Ill"never"forget.""He"said,"uh,"taxis"[inaudible].""And"then"he"
went"with"another"one.""He"said,"thats"a"cab?!""A"lot"of"people"they"were"like,"Yeah!""Because"they"
used"to"be"ticket"writers.""They"dont"know"how"rough"and"rude"those"guys"can"be.""I"mean"theyll"make"
a"USturn.""Thats"what"piss"me"off.""The"other"day,"one"cut"me"off."I"said,"I"cant"believe"this.""Theyll"
stop," do" it" right" when" they" pick" up" a" passenger." So" Im" saying," we" can" stop" that" because" they," they"
creating"hazardous"conditions"out"there."Make"it"like"other"states"and"you"can"only"pick"up"a"person"who"
has"called"for"a"cab."
Tyron"Ali:"Why"you"dont"like"taxis,"man?"
Ron"Waters:"Its"not"that"I"dont"like"them.""I"dont"like"some"of"the"drivers.""Theyve"got"a"lot"of"drivers"
right" now." " And" unfortunately" too." " I" would" not" have" a" problem" with" them" if" they" werent" rude." " Just"
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because"you"became"a"cab"driver"doesnt"mean"you"the"police.""They"act"like"they"are.""And"they"look"at"
you"crazy"if"beep"the"horn."I"aint"gonna"beep"the"horn"no"more,"ok?"Im"gonna"go"and"[Inaudible]""
Ron"Waters/Tyron"Ali:"The"pen"is"mightier"than"the"sword!"
[Laughter]"
Tyron"Ali:"Thats"funny."That"is"hysterical."
Vanessa"Brown:"[inaudible]"remember"this"place."
Tyron"Ali:"I"remember"it!"
Ron"Waters:"But"its"a"safety,"its"safety"too!"
Tyron"Ali:"Thank"you."Can"I"make"the"argument?"
Ron"Waters:"Okay,"I"want"to"hear."
Tyron"Ali:"If"I"sat"here"and"spoke"Spanish"to"you,"and"you"kept"saying,"huh?,"or"anybody,"you"know.""
Sometimes"in"order"for"people"to"understand"whats"going"on,"they"think"that"raising"their"voice"helps.""
The"other"thing"is"when"you"are"an"immigrant,"you"come"here"and"you"are"driving"a"cab.""In"America"you"
have"a"lot"of"order.""In"Liberia,"Uganda,"West"Africa,"Ghana"specifically,"[inaudible],"in"India"or"in"Panaji"
you"do"not"have"that"level"of"regulation.""You"know,"one"point"we"uh"we"were"representing"guys"
Ron"Waters:"[inaudible]."
"Tyron"Ali:"Right.""We"were"representing"the"guys"from"the"uh"International"Taxicab"Brotherhood"and"uh"
I,"I"tried"to"put"myself"in"their"position.""And"I"understood"some"things"that"they"typically"are"incapable"
of"sharing"with"the"public.""And"Ill"give"you"an"example.""Now,"when"you"were"once"able"to"actually"be"
selfSemployed," youre" not" truly" selfSemployed." " Every" [inaudible]" you" pick" up" is" now" attached" to" a"
document"or"a"record.""You"cant"really"make"as"much"money"as"you"used"to,"so"that"hustle"mentality"is"
there.""And"sometimes"they"are"reckless"and"illegal"in"the"way"that"they"drive.""However,"its"part"of"their"
schedule" to" make" as" much" money" as" possible" in" order" to" pay" their" taxes," feed" their" families," pay" for"
repairs"on"the"vehicle,"and"pay"for"gasoline,"which"continues"
Vanessa"Brown:"to"go"up.""
Tyron"Ali:"To"increase."
Vanessa"Brown:"$3.55"looking"at"the"sign."
Tyron"Ali:"Im"not,"Im"not"you"know,"advocating"that"they"do"thing"that"are"illegal.""Im"just"saying"that"
my"folks"in"New"York,"these"are"some"of"the"issues"that"they"struggle"with"on"a"daily"basis.""And"even"
here"in"Philadelphia"thats"what,"well"not"here"in"Harrisburg"but"home,"thats"what"they"struggle"with.""
And,"and"the"piece"about"being"educated"enough"of"being"able"to"speak"the"language"in"order"to"adhere"
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to" the" regulatory" issues" that" are" in" place" now," they" dont" have" that." " You" know?" " So" is" it" the"
governments"fault"that"people"do"what"they"do?"
[Laughter]"
Ron"Waters:"I"used"to"drive"a"cab."
Tyron"Ali:"Did"you?"
Ron"Waters:"Yeah.""I"had"to"drive"a"stickSshift."
Tyron"Ali:"Okay."
Ron"Waters:"[inaudible]"gear"shift"was"in"the"column,"you"know.""I"used"to"drive"my"own"cab."
Tyron"Ali:"Okay,"so,"so"you"of"all"people"should"understand.""
Ron"Waters:"I"do"understand"
Tyron"Ali:"You"dont"agree."
Ron"Waters:"But"we"need"to"regulate"it."
[Laughter]"
Ron"Waters:"Listen,"Im"not"saying"that"its"going"to"pass.""I"dont"know"how"its"going"to"happen.""But"I"
think"its"gotta"attention.""These"guys"gotta"[sic.]"stop"driving"like"that,"they"cause"accidents.""And"then,"I"
had"my"daughter"in"the"car,"and"then"that"guy"cut"in"front"of"me,"and"its"not"the"first"time"theyve"done"
that.""Ive"had"that"happen"many"times."
Tyron"Ali:"UhShuh."
Ron"Waters:"You"know,"feel"that"they"should"feed"their"families,"but"I"want"to"live.""I"want"to"feed"my"
family"too!""I"mean,"theyve"got"[inaudible].""See,"the"parking"authority"gave"them"the"medallion,"and"put"
the"um,"the"uh,"credit"card"um"machine"inside"the"cabs"
Tyron"Ali:"Yes."
Ron"waters:"and"they"theyve"got"to"use"the"credit"cards.""Parking"authority"made"them"clean"the"damn"
cabs."
Tyron"Ali:"Yes."
Ron"Waters:"They"look"like"a"cesspool."
Tyron"Ali:"Some"of"them"are.""
Ron"Waters:"Yeah,"uh"some"of"them"look"like"a"cesspool.""And"then"they"got"have"the"medallions,"they"
gotta"[sic.]"do"regulatory.""They"just"cant"be"freeSagent"anymore."
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Tyron"Ali:"Can"I"tell"you"something?""Theres,"theres"a"place"where"you"can"be"a"freeSagent"and"theres"a"
place"where"you"can"be"an"entrepreneur.""Unfortunately,"the"two"dont"always"go"handSinShand.""When"
they,"you"know,"you"remember"a"medallion"being"50S60"thousand?"
Tyron"Ali:"Medallion"now"is"threeShundred"grand."
Ron"Waters:"I"heard,"I"was"shocked"when"I"read"that"
Tyron" Ali:" Mike" owns" 75%" of" all" the" medallions," and" he" is" raping" and" pillaging" from" these" people." I"
mean"
Ron"Waters:"Who,"who?"
Tyron"Ali:"Mike"Edelman."And,"and"now"the"down"payment"used"to"be"like"twenty"grand"
Vanessa"Brown:""See"thats"what"needs"to"be"regulated.""
Tyron"Ali:"Twenty"grand,"now"its"$75,000"
Vanessa"Brown:"How"we"treat"the"people."
Tyron" Ali:" Of" course," well," heres" the" problem." " One" group" owns" the" medallions," one" group" owns" the"
actual"vehicle.""And"so"in"order"to"feed"your"family,"youre"just"going"to"deal"with"it."
Ron"Waters:"Right."
Tyron"Ali:"You"know?""
Vanessa"Brown:"Somebody"should"be"looking"out"for"them.""
Tyron"Ali:"I"take"it"you"dont"like"taxicab"drivers.""
Ron"Waters:"Oh,"no"I"love"taxicab"drivers.""
Tyron"Ali:"Okay."
Ron"Waters:"I"like"safe"driving,"taxicab"drivers.""
Vanessa"Brown:"If"you"were"the"taxicab,"I"wouldve"been"happy.""[inaudible]."
Ron"Waters:"I"was"so"bad"when"I"had"a"cab."
Tyron"Ali:"You"used"to"drive?"
Vanessa"Brown:"I"had"a"baby"
Ron"Waters/Vanessa"Brown:"[inaudible]"
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Vanessa"Brown:"I"had"a"stepSbaby."I"used"to"pick"him"up"[inaudible]."
3:18:57"
Tyron"Ali:"Thats"a"good"idea.""
Ron"Waters:"Whats"that?"
Tyron"Ali:"Driving"[inaudible]"
Ron"Waters:"Nah"
Tyron"Ali:"Broad"and"Olney."
Vanessa"Brown:"market"
Tyron"Ali:"Yup.""
Ron"Waters:"Broad"and"Olney."16th"and"Market.""
Vanessa"Brown:"They"used"to"love"it."
Tyron"Ali:"Right"there"by"the"A"Plus"on"Langley.""
Ron"Waters:"Some"people"do"that"from"Markets."
Tyron"Ali:"Yup"shop"rite."
Ron"Waters:"My"mother"did"it."The"one"on"61st."
Vanessa"Brown:"I"had"Shoppin"Bag,"48th"and"Brown."
Tyron"Ali:"You"know"how"many"guys"from"Iran"and"Iraq,"a"lot"of"folks"who"are,"you"know,"they"are,"they"
are"displaced"for"one"of"the"better"words.""They"drive"a"lot"of"[inaudible],"you"know?"They"drive"taxicabs.""
I"agree"it"needs"to"be"better"regulated,"but"I"think"it"needs"to"be"better"regulated"on"both"the"owner"and"
the"operator"side,"not"just"[inaudible],"you"know?""Of"course"
Ron"Waters:"We"can"do"the"regulator"side."
Tyron"Ali:"Of"course,"Ill"have"them"sent"you"an"issue"paper"on"taxicabs"now"you"making"me"think!"
[Laughter]"
Ron"Waters:"I"want"them"to"think."
[Laughter]"
Tyron"Ali:"Oh"no!""They"dont"even"speak"English!""
[Laughter]"
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T""57""March"1st,"2011"
Ron" Waters:" And" thats" the" part," that" the" part," thats" the" problem." " I" know" they" dont" speak" English,"
thats"okay.""I"dont"want"to"take"away"anybodys"right.""
3:20:07"
Tyron"Ali:"Why"dont"we"start"a"nonSprofit"on"education"of"owner/operators"in"taxicabs?""Make"owners"
of"the"medallions"pay"to"the"system."See,"now"that"would"be"[inaudible]."
Vanessa"Brown:"You"can"do"all"kinds"of"stuff"like"that:"financial"literacy,"you"can"do"health."
Ron"Waters:"This"is"what"taxicab"drivers"[inaudible]."
Tyron"Ali:"Why"not?"In"New"York"they"have"several"program"like"that."
Vanessa"Brown:"If"its"in"their"community,"I"mean,"its"wonderful."The"immigrant"indigent"community."
Ron"Waters:"The"issue"is"if"the"guy"learns"how"to"drive."
Tyron"Ali:"Hes"got"something"with"him."See,"Im"telling"
Tyron"Ali:"Okay."
Vanessa"Brown:"I"think"he"took"a"taxicab"last"night."
Ron"Waters:"No"it"wasnt"that"
Vanessa"Brown:"Did"you"take"a"cab?"
Tyron"Ali:"They"charge"you"by"the"[inaudible]?"
[Laughter]"
Ron"Waters:"The"problem"is"this"asshole"in"the"right"lane"going"over"to"the"left"lane."
Tyron"Ali:"Did"you"take"his"tag"number?"
Vanessa"Brown:"He"had"his"daughter"in"the"car,"thats"why.""
Tyron"Ali:"Hes"got"this"tag"number,"watch."Right?"
Ron"Waters:"Naw"[sic.],"I"aint"[sic.]"
Tyron"Ali:"Okay.""
[Laughter]"
Ron"Waters:"I"was"so"mad.""I"was"furious."That"doesnt"make"any"sense."Then"I"got"on"the"phoneS"time"
for"some"legislation.""
89"
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[Laughter]"
Ron"Waters:"Thats"right."Thats"gon"[sic.]"get"their"attention."It"has"to."Its"going"to"get"their"attention."
Tyron"Ali:"Let"me"ask"you"something."
Ron" Waters:" And" if" it" change" the" behavior," thats" fine." " Thats," thats" all" legislation" is" supposed" to" do.""
They"write"laws"to"punish"people.""Thats"to"tell"you"dont"do"that"no"damn"more.""Thats"all.""If"you"do"it,"
you"have"to"deal"with"the"consequences.""But"it"tells"a"person,"I"aint"doing"that"no"more!"
[Laughter]"
Tyron" Ali:" Again," I" revert" back" to" my" original" statement," in" their" countries," they" dont" have" any"
regulation.""
Ron"Waters:"I"know,"but"they"aint"[sic.]"in"their"country"right"now."
Tyron"Ali:"I"understand"that.""
Ron"Waters:"When"in"Rome,"do"as"the"Romans"do.""
Tyron"Ali:"Oh"okay."Okay!"
[Laughter]"
Vanessa"Brown:"Speak"English"here."
Tyron"Ali:"Right.""Right.""Genos,"yeah."
Ron"Waters:"She"understand!"You"know"what"I"mean?"And,"and,"and,"and"I"welcome"them."I"have"a"lot"
of,"of,"of"immigrants"in"my"district."
Tyron"Ali:"I"know!"
Ron"Waters:"A"lot"of"African"immigrants.""[inaudible].""Just"respect"the"community"where"you"live.""That"
guy"put"me"and"my"daughter"life"in"jeopardy.""Pissed"me"off.""
Ron"Waters:"But"the"guy,"but"they"saw"African"as"legit,"you"know"
Vanessa"Brown:"[inaudible]"scared"you"to"death!7
Ron" Waters:" I" got" a" dome" on" my" daggone" roof." I" got" medallion" on" my" daggone" hood." " And" Im" a" cab"
driver,"Im"allowed"to"do"this.""Okay?"
Vanessa"Brown:"[inaudible],"Ty."
Ron"Waters:"I"dont"know"[inaudible]"
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Tyron"Ali:"Im"not"trying"to"win!""Im"trying,"Im"trying"to"see"how"we,"how"we,"you"know,"make"it"a"little"
more"flexible.""
Ron"Waters:"Yeah,"we"gon"[sic.]"do"that"because"I"know,"its,"Im"always"open"for"conversation."And"this"
good" conversation." " But," somewhere" along" the" line," they" have" to" know" when" driving" a" cab," theres" a"
privilege."
Tyron"Ali:"Oh"my!"Okay!"
Ron"Waters:"Driving"is"a"privilege."Right?"
Tyron"Ali:"Okay."
Ron"Waters:"Right."
Tyron"Ali:"Okay."
Ron"Waters:"Not"a"right,"its"a"privilege.""And"you"can"do"some"things"that"would"make"you"violate"that"
privilege.""And"you"can"have"it"taken"from"you.""Okay?"Now,"Im"not"saying"take"away"your"privilege,"Im"
saying"we"should"remember"that"it"is"a"privilege."I"had"to"remember"that"when"I"drive.""Right?""Aint"[sic.]"
no"different.""
Tyron"Ali:"You"could"tell"you"from"the"Parking"authority.""
[Laughter]"
Ron"Waters:"Hey"man,"look.""I"want"to"be"an"enforcer.""But"man,"when"I"drove"the"cab,"I"was"a"young"
boy.""They"had"[inaudible]"damn"care.""Because"they"knew"I"couldnt"drive.""
[Laughter]"
Ron"Waters:"I"was"like"all"over"the"place."I"like"this"guy.""Ill"teach"him"how"to"drive.""I"never"drove"a"stickS
shift."So"I"had"to"think"about"letting"off"the"clutch"and"all"that."Thinking"about"the"gears"and"all"this.""Aw,"
you"cant"drive"a"stickSshift?"He"said,"Well"teach"you"how"to"drive"one,"and"they"did.""And"you"know"
what"you"do"[inaudible]"cab?""Me"and"my"boys"[inaudible]"and"it"was"much"easier"then.""All"you"had"to"
do"was"bring"in"a"waiver"or"something"and"a"list"of"your"passengers"turn"your"money"in."But"it"was,"it"
was"not"much"regulated"back"then.""They"gave"me"a"brand"new"cab,"man.""I"used"to"pick"up"my"girl.""Or,"
you"know,"we"used"to"drive"down"Chester"Street.""It"was,"it"was"five"of"us"who"had"yellow"cabs.""And"we"
would"all"park"and"drive"
Tyron"Ali:"Thats"one"hell"of"a"gang"youve"got!"
Ron" Waters:" They" wave," we" supposed" to" stop." We" aint" [sic.]" stopping!" " Were" gonna" ride" all" the" way"
around"town."
[Laughter]"
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Ron" Waters:" We" would" ride" around" and" my" girlfriend" sitting" in" the" front" seat," Im" surprised" all" of" us"
didnt"get"fired."[inaudible]."
Tyron"Ali:"Dont"be"so"harsh"on"the"little"cab"drivers,"okay?""They"aint"[sic.]"nobody."
Ron"Waters:"I"aint"[sic.]"pick"up"one"damn"person."
[Laughter]"
Ron"Waters:"And"then"called"in"and"said,"Ill"give"you"another"four"hours.""He"said,"Alright,"you"got"it."
I"didnt"come"in"with"nothing."
[Laughter]"
Vanessa"Brown:"Just"driving"they"car"
Ron"Waters:"Yeah,"yeah"I"had"a"car.""I"had"a"car.""
Tyron"Ali:"You"had"a"cab.""
Ron"Waters:"I"had"a"cab!""Yeah.""
Vanessa" Brown:" You" think" thats" bad?" His" father" had" a" funeral" home" and" he" came" to" the" prom" in" a"
hearse.""
Ron"Waters:"Yeah,"hearse."
Vanessa"Brown:"He"rode"up"to"his"girl"[inaudible]"
Tyron"Ali:"Blair!Hopkins!"did"that."
Vanessa"Brown:"[inaudible]"
Tyron"Ali:"We"were"at"somebodys"fundraiser.""Come"to"pick"up"the"whole"posse"now"in"a"hearse.""I"said,"
Blair,"what"are"you"doing?""Shes"like,"Thats"my"ride,"Ty!""
[Laughter]"
Ron"Waters:"Yeah.""Whats"his"name,"we"were"talking"about"hearses"yesterday,"too.""Um"[inaudible]"with"
the"um"Terry"funeral"home.""
Vanessa"Brown:"Greg."
Tyron"Ali:"Yeah.""
Ron"Waters:"Greg,"yeah"Greg"he,"was"there.""He"was"there.""I"was"surprised"when"I"saw"him"there."
Vanessa"Brown:"Well"hes"
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Tyron"Ali:"Hes"always"trying,"hes"always"trying"to,"you"know.""He,"he"probably"will"get"it"though.""
Ron"Waters:"Whats"he"trying"to"get?"
Vanessa"Brown:"He"wants"it"in"our"neighborhood."At"40th"and"Fairmount."
Ron"Waters:"He"wants"to"do"cremation?"
Vanessa"Brown:"Yea"
SS3:26:25SS"
Tyron"Ali:"Whos"neS,"is"that"your"district?""
Tyron"Ali:"Well"he"might"not!"
Ron"Waters:"[inaudible]"
Tyron"Ali:"It"doesnt"matter"
Vanessa"Brown:"But"its"state."
Tyron"Ali:"Its"state.""
Vanessa"Brown:"Somebody"[inaudible]"
Ron"Waters:"Im"telling"you"
Tyron"Ali:"Yeah."UhShuh."
Ron"Waters:"[inaudible]"just"like"when"she"tried"to"deal"with"the"[inaudible]"issues.""She"couldnt"do"that,"
that"was"state.""
Vanessa"Brown:"And"hes"got"the"state"license."
Ron"Waters:"Thats"right.""Thats"what"Im"saying.""
Vanessa"Brown:"Thats"all"[inaudible]"
Ron" Waters:" He" dont" care." " He" dont" know" and" hes" changing" his" mind." " And," and" I" say" she" can" do"
[inaudible]"some"issues.""
Vanessa"Brown:"But"shes"taking"it."
Ron"Waters:"She"cant"do"anything"with"that"license"that"you"guys"have.""
93"
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Tyron"Ali:"Its"state"issued."
Ron"Waters:"That"is"state"issued.""And"when"we"said"were"going"to"put"points"against"the"operator"and"
start"giving"violations"against"them,"like"the"drivers"license."Boy,"he"got"mad.""We"got"their"attention.""
[Inaudible]"so"pissed.""She"wanted"Tommy"Blackwood"to"do"that."She"knew"that."Thats"why"she"got"mad"
at"me.""As"a"matter"of"fact,"she"voted"against"the"legislation."She"was"the"only"member.""[Inaudible].""
SS3:27:50SS"
Tyron"Ali:"Its"uh,"my"young"boy,"Charles,"he"want"to"be"somebody"now.""
Ron"Waters:"Who,"Charles"Gibbs?"
Tyron"Ali:"Yeah,"he"want"to"be"somebody"now.""
Ron"Waters:"He"used"to"uh,"uh"I"dont"he"used"to"I"think"he"not"a"traffic"judge"yet,"is"he?"[Inaudible]."
Vanessa"Brown:"I"thought"he"just"passed"the"bar"being"a"lawyer.""[inaudible]""Whats"up"with"that?"
Tyron"Ali:"Well,"you"know.""I"told"him,"I"said,"Charles,"Ill"tell"you"something"man.""Its"okay"for"you"to"
have"a"law"degree.""Whats"not"okay"is"for"you"to"be"perceived"as"a"moron."
[Laughter]"
Ron" Waters:" He" used" to," when" he" was" like" fifteen," sixteen," he" used" to" be" with" me" all" the" time." " You"
know"
Tyron"Ali:"What"a"nice"kid.""He"used"be"with"all"of"us!"
Ron"Waters:"Yeah."
Tyron"Ali:"Do"you"remember"Earl"Mathews?""
Ron"Waters:"Yeah."
Tyron"Ali:"That"my"boy!"You"know?"
Vanessa"Brown:"They"were"rainmakers!"
Tyron"Ali:"Whos"a"rainmaker?"
Tyron"Ali:"Who"[inaudible]?"
Vanessa"Brown:"Who"was"the"other"guy?"
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T""57""March"1st,"2011"
Ron"Waters:"I"dont"think"he"was"a"rainmaker.""
Vanessa"Brown:"I"thought"he"was"with"the"
Tyron"Ali:"No,"no."
Tyron"Ali:"No.""
Tyron"Ali:"Charles,"Charles.""
Tyron"Ali:"Will"is"not"a"rainmaker,"okay?""
Ron"Waters:"He"was"uh,"the"guy"who"wanna"run"against"Tom"Brady.""
Tyron"Ali:"Heath"Leapheart"(?)."
Ron"Waters:"Heath"Leapheart"(?)."
Tyron"Ali:"My"man.""
Ron"Waters:"He"had"the"rainmaker.""
Tyron"Ali:"Him,!Colongie!(?),"[inaudible]"our"whole"crew."
Ron"Waters:"Will"Vega"(?)"um"
Vanessa"Brown:"He"says"Wills"not"around."Hes"a"wannabe.""
Ron"Waters:"Well"he"was"
Tyron"Ali:"Tried"to"be.""
[Laughter]"
Ron"Waters:"Well"he"was"with"them."I"dont"know"if"he"considers"
Tyron"Ali:"Yeah"he"tried"to"be."
Vanessa"Brown:"He"didnt"even"wannabe."
Ron"Waters:"He"tried."
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Tyron"Ali:"No"because"these"guys"are,"by"societys"definition,"geniuses.""Look,"you"say,"and"I"understand,"
you"know,"the"perception"of,"of"some"of"these"folks"who"are"bright,"talented,"young"people,"like"Kiwana"
(?),"right?""Bright,"talented,"young"people,"but"they"fail"to"be"able"to"do"this.""
Ron"Waters:"Yeah,"yeah.""
Tyron"Ali:"They"fail"to"be"able"to"do"this.""
Tyron"Ali:"And"that"piece"is"common"sense!""You"know?"
Ron"Waters:"Well,"they"have,"they"have"their"own"
Vanessa"Brown:"Theyre"so"full"of"themselves.""
Ron"Waters:"Yeah,"they"are"full"of"themselves.""They"have"their"own"agenda."Then"Heath"became"their"
leader.""And"then"he"left"them.""
Vanessa"Brown:"He"sold"them"out.""
Tyron"Ali:"UhShuh"
Ron"Waters:"He"sold"them"out."
Vanessa"Brown:"For"a"job."
Ron"Waters:"For"a"damn"job."
Tyron"Ali:"That"was"it!"
Vanessa"Brown:"And"he"couldve"had"the"position."
Ron"Waters:"And"he"couldve"had"the,"aw,"[inaudible]"too!"
Tyron"Ali:"UhShuh,"thats"why"he"made"the"deal."
Ron"Waters:"Thats"right."
Tyron" Ali:" Jaime" called" me" and" he" was" like," Ty," were" going" partying" tonight" and" be" down" there" at" uh"
where"were"we?""We"were"down"at"Sea"view."Jaime"Foxx"party!""
Ron"Waters:"Okay.""
Tyron"Ali:"Me,"Chris"Sample,"my"wife,"a"couple"other"folks,"we"VIP"in"there,"right?"
Ron"Waters:"Yeah."
3:30:32"
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Tyron"Ali:"You"dont"like"Chris?"
Vanessa"Brown:"Not"me."
[Laughter]"
Tyron"Ali:"She"dont"like,"she"dont"
Ron"Waters:"You"talking"about"Chris"who"was"with"Lynn"Abraham?"
Tyron"Ali:"Yeah!"
Ron"Waters:"Yeah!"
Vanessa"Brown:"[inaudible]"my"district."
Tyron"Ali:"Okay."
Vanessa"Brown:"The"whole"familys"for"it."So"I"call"Chris"
Tyron"Ali:"[inaudible]."
Vanessa"Brown:"I"called"Chris"down"at"the"DAs"office"
Tyron"Ali:"UhShuh."
Vanessa"Brown:"I"said,"Chris"petition"[inaudible]"entire"familys"name.""And"I"was"going"to"court"and"Im"
going"to"ask"Lynn"[Inaudible]"Please"dont"call"me,"please"dont"call"me"to"court!"[inaudible]!""I"said,"
Chris,"you"used"to"work"for"the"District"Attorney!"You"going"to"let"this"man"violate"you"and"your"family"
like"that?""He"said,"I"dont"need"to"be"in"it."Please"dont"call"me!""I"said,"Goodbye"Chris."
Tyron"Ali:"Had"I"known"you,"it"wouldve"been"a"phone"call"and"be"easy.""
Ron"Waters:"Yeah."
Vanessa"Brown:"I"do"if"I"had"called"you,"youd"be"like"get"your"behind"down"there."
Ron"Waters:"Yea."
Tyron"Ali:"Chris"is"a"bright"guy."Hes"a"bright"guy."
Vanessa"Brown:"Hes"spineless."
Tyron"Ali:"Be"kind.""Be"kind.""No,"hes,"hes"a"nice"guy.""Chris"is"uh,"you"know"anybody"that,"that,"that"uh"
is"able"to"withstand"that"level"of"scrutiny"is"like"you"guys,"being"able"to"just"do"the"job"and"thats"hard.""
Thats"hard."
Ron"Waters:"Well,"its,"its,"its"hard"to"do"the"job"and"then"take"all"the"hard"issues"
97"
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Tyron"Ali:"Yes."
Ron"Waters:"of"our"jobs"
Tyron"Ali:"Yes."
Ron"Waters:"Because"we"cant"just"let"Chris"do"the"job"from"the"back,"weve"got"to"be"in"the"front"of"the"
[inaudible]"
Vanessa"Brown:"Yea,"we"couldnt"have"cried"and"said,"Dont"call"me."
Ron"Waters:"Im"shocked"to"hear"that.""
Tyron"Ali:"Me"too."
Ron"Waters:"Yeah"that"he"was,"that"he"was"scared.""Who"would"be"scared"[inaudible]?"
Tyron"Ali:"UhShuh."
Vanessa"Brown:"Exactly."
Tyron"Ali:"Like"fright"night."
Vanessa"Brown:"He"was"crying!"
Ron"Waters:"She"got"so"many"people"so"scared."
Vanessa"Brown:"The"girl"came"out."
Tyron"Ali:"You"know"something?""She"has"always"been,"ever"since"I"worked"for"Lou,"she"has"always"been"
so"kind"to"me,"you"know.""When"we"were,"[inaudible],"from"ATXStelecom,"she"called"Clark,"we"had"him"
as"a"client,"just"like"that,"you"know?"
Ron" Waters:" See" she" has" influence" and" thats" why" [inaudible]" her." Her" connection" are" not" going" to"
[inaudible]."
Tyron"Ali:"You"know"Jeff"just"raised"like"$70,000"for"[inaudible]."
Ron"Waters:"Did"he?""Wow.""
Tyron" Ali:" Call" me" up" and" was" like," Ty," where" you" all" at?" " I" said," Where" yall" at?" You" just" need" me."
What"you"need?""Okay.""Because"at"some"level"of"the"game,"she"will"be"there,"you"know?""And"so"as"
long"as"the"door"is"open,"thats"all,"you"know,"for"now,"for"now.""Until"probably"about"I"would"say"May"of"
next"year"when"his"term"is"in"full"swing;"its"really"trucking"along.""Youre"going"to"see"some"changes."But"
not"
Ron"Waters:"Who,"the"governor?"
Tyron"Ali:"Youre"going"to"see"some"real"changes.""
98"
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Ron"Waters:"Oh,"yeah"but"the"next"year"the"changes"will"be,"there"will"be"some"major"changes"in"our"
community.""But"thats"when"the"impact"of"what"were"doing"this"year"[inaudible].""[inaudible]."
Tyron"Ali:"I"just"wonder"whats"going"to"happen"to"the"daycare"centers."
Ron"Waters:"Theyre"going"to"be"in"trouble.""
Vanessa" Brown:" I" just" [inaudible]" introduce" my" legislation" to," remember" about" the" budget" to" get"
passed?" " They," they," made" me" withdraw" it?" They" said" in" the" event" of" a" budget" impasse," they" are"
considered" a" social" standard" that" they" would" get" paid." " And" um" Dwight" made" Louise" take" it" out" " of"
committee,"he"told"herSS"
Ron"Waters:"[inaudible]"budget"process."
Tyron"Ali:"OurSS"
Vanessa"Brown:"Im"putting"it"up"again."
Ron"Waters:"I"had"one"that"said"that"schools"should"not"be"impacted,"they"have"to"pay"back.""So"what"
happened"was"one"year"the"school"district"didnt"get"the"money,"I"think"we"passed"the"final"budget"until"
December.""And"the"school"district"[inaudible]"a"lot"of"money"all"over"the"state"[inaudible].""And"my"thing"
was"that"they"should"not"be"responsible"for"the"interest"that"they"had"to"pay.""[inaudible]."
Vanessa"Brown:"If"thats"additional"revenue,"how"can"they"have"$500"million?""What"do"they"do"with"the"
hundred"million?""
Ron"Waters:"Let"me"ask"you"a"
Vanessa"Brown:"Thats"a"lot"of"money."
Tyron"Ali:"[inaudible]"
Vanessa"Brown:"Thats"a"lot"of"damn"money.""
Tyron"Ali:"Start"a"[inaudible].""That"would"allow"me"to"go"and"talk"to"Miss"[inaudible].""And"then,"its,"its"
one"thing"when"youre"starting.""Well"light"that"fire"to"the"point"where"its"a"bonfire.""And"Ill"be"where"it"
is." Itll" be" where" it" needs" to" be," because" you" need" to" be" able" to" work" together" by," through" congenial"
means" or" nonScongenial" means." " Okay?" " Get" that" PAC" together." " Im" telling" you," well" have" some"
conversations"next"week.""[inaudible].""Because"theyve"got"it.""
Ron"Waters:"Yeah,"aw"man"look"we,"this"is"something,"this"is"a"way"for"us"to"establish"ourselves.""That"
were" going" to" look" out" for" our" members." " And" we" have" friends" out" there" who" are" supportive" of" our"
99"
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T""57""March"1st,"2011"
issues,"who"look"out"for"them"too!""But"this"is"going"to"be"about"what"is"important"and"who"supports"our"
issues"
Vanessa"Brown:"And"were"not"going"to"be"taken"seriously"unless"we"have"money"in"our"pockets."
Ron"Waters:"Thats"right.""And"this,"and"this"would"help"keep"our"members"in"check"too"because"we"got"
some"renegades"amongst"ourselves."
Tyron"Ali:"Here,"can"I"just"be"completely"frank"with"you"here?"
Ron"Waters:"MmShmm."
Tyron"Ali:"And"this"is,"this"is"what"happens,"excuse"me,"so"Wojack"is"starting"to"make"his"rounds,"because"
Eds"not"there,"so"he"is"doing"some"other"things.""He"split"up"his"staff,"part"Republican"part"Democrat,"in"
order"to"keep"feeding"at"the"trough.""When"was"the"last"time"somebody"seriously"approached"the"Black"
Caucus"besides"myself?""It"doesnt"happen.""Youve"known"me"since"I"was"thin."
[Laughter]"
Tyron"Ali:"Thats"a"long"time.""
Ron" Waters:" You" know," the" Black" Caucus" has" not" traditionally" [inaudible]." " Four" years" Ive" been" here,"
never"been"[inaudible].""We"had"to"find"another"thing"that"keeps"us"together.""
Tyron"Ali:"But,"but"can"I,"can"I"just"make"a"suggestion?"
Ron"Waters:"And"that"aint"[sic.]"going"to"keep"everybody"because"theyre"going"to"bring"more"people."
Tyron"Ali:"What"happens"is,"and"its"great"that"you"guys"are"here"together,"because"it"is"Vice"Chair"and"
Chair.""
Tyron"Ali:"Dwights"no"longer"Chair."
Ron"Waters:"Right."
Tyron" Ali:" So" to" be" able" to" create" perpetuity," let" me," let" me" exchange" that" word" for" something,"
longevity.""
Tyron"Ali:"Right?"
Tyron"Ali:"You"need"to"be"when"somebody"[inaudible]"you"need"to"be"able"to"direct.""Because"what"that"
does"is"first"of"all,"it"earns"respect,"secondly,"it"get"them"to"go"oh.""And"thats"all"you"need.""
100"
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T""57""March"1st,"2011"
Vanessa"Brown:"Right"
Tyron"Ali:"You"know?"
Vanessa" Brown:" You" got" the" leaders" running" into" trouble" when" you" write" the" thousands" of" dollars" of"
check"
Tyron"Ali:"UhShuh."And"you"do"so"with"the"blessing"of"the"group."
Ron"Waters:"Blessing"of"the"group?"
Tyron"Ali:"With"the"blessings"of"the"group,"even"if"it"is"not"a"shared"ideal"you"know?""And"you"know"you"
have"my"support"and"I"know"you"know"that"
Ron"Waters:"This,"this"is"something"that"
Ron"Waters:"And"thats"something"that"we"talk"about"
Tyron"Ali:"Treat"the"little"Indian"people"good"man."
Ron"Waters:"I"always"do."
Tyron"Ali:"No!"Because"now"youre"running"after"my"cousins.""The"taxi"drivers!"
Ron"Waters:"No"
[Laughter]"
Tyron"Ali:"Okay."But"uh"
[Laughter]"
Tyron"Ali:"Thats"
Vanessa"Brown:"[inaudible]"family"name."
Tyron"Ali:"Right."Right."[inaudible]."But,"but"
Ron"Waters:"We"have"a"special"medallion"for"them."
Tyron"Ali:"Tomorrow"morning,"Ill"be"up"here."
Ron"Waters:"Okay!"
Tyron"Ali:"You"sure?"
101"
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T""57""March"1st,"2011"
Ron"Waters:"Yeah."
Tyron"Ali:"Its"on?"
Ron"Waters:"Its"on,"its"alright.""
Tyron"Ali:"Okay."
Ron"Waters:"Eight"o"clock.""
Tyron"Ali:"Um"
Ron"Waters:"We"gotta"get"some"breakfast"or"something.""
Ron"Waters:"Yeah."
Tyron"Ali:"UhShuh."What"are"you"doing"in"the"morning?"
Vanessa"Brown:"Im"up"here"
Tyron"Ali:"What"are"you"doing"with"Kenyatta?""
Ron"Waters:"Well,"we"sell,"I,"I,"him"and"I"am"going"to"sit"down"and"talk."
Tyron"Ali:"Okay."
Ron"Waters:"He"wants"to"talk"to"me"[inaudible]"
Tyron"Ali:"Well,"theyre"covered"
Vanessa"Brown:"[inaudible]"personal"stuff?"
Ron"Waters:"I"dont"know"what"its"about.""
Vanessa"Brown:"So"it"doesnt"include"me?"
Ron"Waters:"I"dont"know!"Its"on"my"schedule"that"Im"meeting"with"him"tomorrow."
Vanessa"Brown:"But"Im"not"with"[inaudible]."
Ron"Waters:"I"think"he"wants"to"talk"about"the"council"race"or"something."
Tyron"Ali:"Well,"in"terms"of"the"council"race"
Vanessa"Brown:"Free"Library"of"Philadelphia."
102"
"
T""57""March"1st,"2011"
Tyron"Ali:"In"terms"of"the"council"race,"um,"you"know,"we"never,"look"you"know,"you"know"weve"had"our"
differences.""But"heres"the"problem,"if"we"let"it"go"to"somebody"else,"well"have"no"communication.""So"
its"better"to"be"able"to"talk"to"somebody"and"not"get"your"issue"heard"then"they"dont"hurt"you"because"
theyre"neutralized.""As"opposed"to"somebody"that"you"dont"have"communication"with"
Ron"Waters:"No,"no"the"only"problem"I"have"
Tyron"Ali:"You"follow"what"Im"saying?"
Ron" Waters:" My" problem" is" this:" " Im" hoping" that" he" goes" in" there" and" remains" as" an" independent"
operator"instead"of"taking"orders."
Tyron"Ali:"He"will"be,"at"least"for"the"first"four"years.""I"mean"thats"just"a"given.""
Ron"Waters:"No,"Im"talking"about,"hes"a"freshman"in"state"rep"too."
Tyron"Ali:"UhShuh."
Ron"Waters:"And"he"has"been"pretty"cool"as"far"as,"but"not"totally"cool.""I"dont"want,"whats"it,"Tony"to"
want"[inaudible]"
Tyron"Ali:"Well"thats"exactly"
Ron"Waters:"[inaudible]"talk"to"me."
Tyron"Ali:"Well,"thats"whats"going"to"happen."
Ron" Waters:" And" it" happens" in" these," it" happened" to" that" black" woman" [inaudible]." " To" those" people"
who"surround"themselves"around"him"Tommy,"Tommy,"whats"his"name?"
Tyron"Ali:"St."Hill."
Ron"Waters:"St."Hill,[inaudible]"
Tyron"Ali:"[inaudible]"
Ron" Waters:" And" the" uh" one" more," three" of" them" in" particular." " They" surrounded" Lou" and" told," and"
made"everybody"think"you"cant"talk"to"Lou"unless"you"go"through"me.""And"thats"pretty"much"whats"
wrong"
Tyron"Ali:"But"John"Street!was"one"of"those"guys,"too.""
Ron"Waters:"Yeah."
Tyron"Ali:"You"know?""Well"hes"caring"too"much"of"Tony."
Ron"Waters:"Thats"exactly"right!""Hes"carrying"Tony."And"Kenyatta"did"not"want"to"do"this.""I"was"at"the"
maybe"[inaudible]."But"I"dont"live"over"there.""But"nobody"wanted"Tony"controlling"council"seats."
103"
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T""57""March"1st,"2011"
Tyron"Ali:"But,"its,"its,"its"going"to"be"too"late.""
Ron"Waters:"No,"I"dont"see"[inaudible].""I"just,"I"just"say,"I"just"pray"that"it"be"that"if"and"when"he"wins,"
that"he"wont"have"to"be"dealing"with"somebody"who"wants"to"control"him.""
Vanessa"Brown:"If"he"could"get"his"money"independently,"he"will"prevail"[inaudible]."
Tryon"Ali:"But"thats"not"going"to"happen.""
Ron"Waters:"I"want"him"to"be"his"own"man."
Vanessa"Brown:"Thats"his"problem.""Is"that"
Tyron"Ali:"He"has"no"friends."
Ron"Waters:"Yeah"he"needs"his"money.""
Vanessa"Brown:"If"he"did"not"need"his"money,"he"would"not"do"[inaudible]."
Ron"Waters:"Sometimes"I"think"
Vanessa"Brown:"No"he"doesnt"like"his"situation.""
Ron" Waters:" Sometimes" I" think" hes" been" staff" for" long." " Sometimes" I" think" people" dont" forget" that"
youre"no"longer"staff.""Youre"elected"official"and"I"think"people"sometimes,"in"themselves,"might"forget"
that"too.""And"remember,"forget"I"aint"[sic.]"got"to"answer"you"no"more,"you"aint"[sic.]"my"boss.""My"
constituents"are"my"boss."
Tyron"Ali:"Its"very"difficult"for"that"to"happen."
Ron"Waters:"It"is!""
Tyron"Ali:"Ill"tell"you"
Vanessa"Brown:"[inaudible]"millions"of"dollars"in"my"pocket."
Tyron"Ali:"UhShuh.""
Ron" Waters:" But" thats" what" Tonysee" Tony" owns" this" group" that" gave" him" all" this" money" to" deliver"
these"vouchers.""And"people"come"up"to"see"me,"people"coming"to"talk"to"me"about"this"stuff.""And"they"
all" say" the" same" thing," He" has" to" deliver." " They" didnt" think" he," Ive" got" a" copy" of" some" people"
[inaudible]"
Vanessa"Brown:"They"voted"it"out"of"committee"today."
Ron" Waters:" Yes." " I" dont" know" if" they" voted" it" out," but" Tony" went" with" the" Republicans" and" the"
amendment."They"had"an"amendment"that"said,"cause"Arlene"Ackerman"told"me"that"in"December"or"
104"
"
T""57""March"1st,"2011"
January,"perhaps"kick"that"student"out"because"hes"too"difficult"to"work"with.""That"money"doesnt"go"
back"to"what"that"child"should"have"properly"[inaudible]"to"the"schools.""Its"these"with"the"problems."
Vanessa"Brown:"Thats"ridiculous."
Ron" Waters:" They" had" an" amendment" that" correct" that." " Because" they," they," they" didnt" know" that.""
Somebody"in"the"Senate"thought"of"that"amendment"and"said"let"the"money"follow"that"child.""Thats"
what"Im"saying."
3:43:25"
Tyron"Ali:"Excuse"me,"one"second.""
3:43:25"
[Restaurant7noise/bathroom]"
3:45:00"
Tyron"Ali:"Sure,"thanks."
3:45:27"
Ron"Waters:"They"gon"[sic.]"take"that"student"and""
Vanessa"Brown:"Are"you"ready,"Ty?"
Ron"Waters:"They"gon"[sic.]""kick"him"out.""This,"this,"I"dont"see"the,"I"think"that"its"common"sense"that"
the"money"should"follow"the"child."
Vanessa"Brown:"Absolutely,"I"agree"with"you."
Tyron"Ali:"[inaudible]"you"cant.""
Ron"Waters:"Right.""But,"but,"but,"but"what"does"that"do"to,"the,"to,"to"part"of"the"education"that"is"by"
constitution"guarantees"every"child"an"educational"opportunity.""Now"the"money"went"into"the"private"
school"and"then"the"private"school"kicked"that"student"out"and"the"student"cant"go"back"and"the"money"
it"got"to"go"back"to"the"private"school."
Tyron"Ali:"How"about"the"fact"that"the"public"schools"are"going"to"close"and"there"may"not"be"any"room"
for"that"child?""
Ron"Waters:"Yeah."Thats"what"going"to"happen"
Tyron"Ali:"Host"of"issues."
Ron"Waters:"Its"a"whole"host"of"issues.""Its"a"whole"host"of"issues.""
Tyron"Ali:"Well"I,"I"
105"
"
T""57""March"1st,"2011"
Ron"Waters:"I"dont"want"to"take"a"state"dollar"program"and"say"that"Im"limited"to"my"zip"code.""If"I"want"
my" child" to" go" to" Lower" Merion" district," they" should" be" able" to" go" there." " Thats" what" I" call" parental"
choice."
Vanessa" Brown:" Well" they" should" open," I," I" agree" [inaudible]" but" they" should" open" up" elementary"
schools"to"choice.""
Ron"Waters:"Yeah.""
Vanessa"Brown:"[inaudible]"different"age.""
Ron"Waters:"Right."[inaudible].""And"they"want"[inaudible]"they"want"it.""
Tyron"Ali:"Its"one"of"those"things"where"theres"no"easy"answer.""[inaudible].""Because"its"not"in"their"
best"interests"
Ron"Waters:"We"have"
Tyron"Ali:"politically.""
Ron"Waters:"We"have"invited"Tony"to"come"to"my"office,"to"talk"about"vouchers."
Tyron"Ali:"Politically,"its"not.""
Ron"Waters:"He"didnt"show"up."They"was"going"to"take"us"out"to"dinner"one"night,"explain"
Tyron"Ali:"Oh,"I"remember"that."
Ron"Waters:"And"they"didnt"show"up.""They"have"never"called"to"reschedule."Cancelled."
Tyron"Ali:"I"remember"that.""
Ron"Waters:"They"dont"want"to"talk"to"us.""They"just"want"us"to"do"what"they"say"do.""
SS03:"47:28SS"
Tyron"Ali:"My"guy,"hes"already"here.""Were"right"next"to"your"van,"dear.""Let"me"just"grab"my"briefcase"
from"here.""
Ron"Waters:"Well,"Im"rolling,"baby.""
Vanessa"Brown:"Alright.""
Ron"Waters:"See"you"later."
SS03:47:52SS"
Ron"Waters:"Take"care.""
106"
"
T""57""March"1st,"2011"
Tyron"Ali:"No,"darling,"Im,"Im"gonna"[sic.]"my"guys"already"here.""Listen,"I"will"see"you"in"the"morning,"
right?"
Ron"Waters:"Okay."
Tyron"Ali:"And"well"talk.""
Ron"Waters:"Okay.""
Tyron"Ali:"And"leave"Jim"Davis"to"me.""
Ron"Waters:"Alright."
Tyron"Ali:"Alright."
Vanessa"Brown:"Here"you"go."
Tyron"Ali:"Thank"you"so"much.""Ill"see"you"soon."
Vanessa"Brown:"Okay."I"aint"[sic.]"taking"[inaudible]."
Tyron"Ali:"I"know!"
Vanessa"Brown:"Alright!"
Tyron" Ali:" Thanks." " Ill" uh" Ill" give" you" a" call" tomorrow" and" we" will" uh" we" will" work" through" this" Tobin"
situation.""
Vanessa"Brown:"Okay."
Tyron"Ali:"Ill"call"you"in"the"morning"around"nine."
Vanessa"Brown:"Okay"
Tyron"Ali:"I"just"have"to"get"home.""
Vanessa"Brown:"Okay."
Tyron"Ali:"Thank"you.""
SS03:49:00SS"
Claude"Thomas:"This"tape"is"now"being"deactivated.""Time"twenty"fiftySone"hundred"hours.""
107"
"
T"58%March%2,%2011%
0:00%
Investigator%Claude%Thomas:%Senior%Supervisory%Special%Agent%Pennsylvanias%office%of%attorney%general.%%
Badge%number%is%118.%%A%certification%number%is%A"1418.%%Todays%date%is%Wednesday,%March%the%second%
year%2011.%%Current%time%is%1935%hours.%%This%recording%device%will%be%placed%on%CI"2010"01%in%reference%
to% investigation% number% 36"622.% % The% CI% will% be% proceeding% to% location% within% the% city% of% Harrisburg,%
county%of%Dauphin%County,%and%record%communications%with%RW.%%This%device%will%remain%activated%until%
deactivated%by%myself.%%
1:05"2:08%%
[Silence]%
2:09%
[Music]%
2:14%
[Door-slam]%
2:40%
[Door-opening]%
3:34%
Unknown%Female:%%Excuse%me.%
3:41%
Tyron%Ali:%Hi,%two%for%dinner%please.%%
Unknown%Male:%Two?%
Tyron%Ali:%Yes.%
4:07%
Tyron%Ali:%Mhhm,%yeah%thats%fine.%Thank%you.%
Unknown%Male:%Alright.%
Tyron%Ali:%Hey%Megan.%
Unknown%Female:%Hey.%
Tyron%Ali:%How%are%you?%
1%
%
AK%
T"58%March%2,%2011%
Unknown%Male:%Inaudible%
Tyron%Ali:%Thank%you.%
4:36%
[Laughter]%
5:02%
[Coughing]%
5:42%
Unknown%Female:%Hi,%how%are%you%doing?%
Tyron%Ali:%Hi,%how%are%you?%
Unknown%Female:%Good.%
6:44%
Phone-dials8:18%
Unknown%Female:%Can%I%get%you%something%to%drink?%
Tyron%Ali:%Yeah,%can%I%have%a%rum%and%Coke%please?%
Unknown%Female:%Rum%and%coke?%%Okay.%
Tyron%Ali:%Mhhm,%thanks.%
10:00%
Tyron%Ali:%Hey%Ron,%its%Tyron.%%Umm,%its%about%uhh%7:50.%I,%uh,%just%wanted%to%know%whether%or%not%you%
were%enroute%(sic)%to%Raspberries.%%Umm,%please%call%me%back%and%uh%let%me%know%if%uh%if%youre%late.%
Thank%you.%Buh"bye.%%
12:38%
Unknown%Female:%Here%you%go,%sir.%
Tyron%Ali:%Thank%you,%dear.%%
Unknown%Female:%Youre%welcome.%%You%waiting%for%someone?%[Inaudible]%%
Tyron%Ali:%I%dont%know%if%he%is%delayed%or%if%hes%not%gonna%(sic)%show.%
2%
%
AK%
T"58%March%2,%2011%
Unknown%Female:%Okay%
Tyron%Ali:%Umm,%Ill%let%you%know%in%about%ten%minutes.%%Im%just%waiting%for%him%to%call%me%back.%
Unknown%Female:%Okay,%thatll%be%fine.%%Alright,%just%let%me%know.%
Thank%you.%
Unknown%Female:%Now%let%me%explain%our%menu.%%Now,%this%is%our%new%menu.%%We%have,%weve%brought%
back%our%uhm%salad%bar%with%bread.%%It%comes%complimentary%with%the%entres.%%If%you%order%a%sandwich%
its%an%extra%five%dollars.%%But%if%you%want%to%do%it%by%itself,%it%s%twelve%dollars.%%
Unknown%Female:%Okay?%
Tyron%Ali:%Okay.%
Tyron%Ali:%Thank%you%
Unknown%Female:%Youre%welcome.%%
18:37%
Unknown%Female:%Here%you%go,%sir.%%
[pause]%
Unknown%Female:%Youre%welcome.%%Hows%everything?%%You%ready,%or%youre%going%need%to%wait?%
Tyron%Ali:%Im%going%to%wait.%
Unknown%Female:%Okay,%alright.%%Just%let%me%know%when%youre%ready.%
Tyron%Ali:%I%will,%thank%you.%%
20:42%
Tyron%Ali:%How%are%you,%sir?%
Ron%Waters:%All%good.%%
Tyron%Ali:%I%was%looking%for%you%in%the%daylight%with%a%flash%light.%Laughter.-I%said,%is%he%coming?%How%are%%
you?%
%
Ron%Waters:%Man,%I%got%uh%went%through%a%little%nap%man.%%
Tyron%Ali:%Oh,%okay.%Tired,%huh?%
3%
%
AK%
T"58%March%2,%2011%
Ron%Waters:%[inaudible]%head%cold%
Tyron%Ali:%Uh%oh%
Ron% Waters:% Yeah.% Oh...I% feel% it% coming% on.% % But% I% know% Im% going% to% do.% % When% I% feel% it% coming% on,%
[inaudible]%
%
21:33%
Unknown%Female:%Hi,%how%are%you%doing?%%Can%I%get%you%anything%to%drink?%
Ron%Waters:%Yeah,%hot%tea,%please.%%
Unknown%Female:%Hot%tea?%
Tyron%Ali:%A%shot%of%whiskey%will%fix%that,%right?%
LaughterTyron%Ali:%Hows%your%day%going?%
Ron%Waters:%Ill%get%that%later%on.%Ill%see%what%you%have.%What%you%have?%
Tyron%Ali:%Rum%and%coke.%Makes%sense,%at%this%time%of%the%day.%%
Ron%Waters:%Yeah.%
21:57%
Tyron%Ali:%You%guys%winded%up%in%the%double%session%today,%huh?%%
Ron%Waters:%Theres%usually%a%tightness%in%the%sprinkler%system.%[Inaudible]%
Tyron%Ali:%Ansul%systems?%
Ron%Waters:%Huh?%
Tyron%Ali:%Ansul%systems?%
Ron%Waters:%No,%the%sprinkler.%%The%uh%the%building%trades%uh%they%want%new%uh%they%want%buildings%that%
newly%constructed%buildings%that%have%sprinkle%systems%in%em.%%
Tyron%Ali:%Uh"huh%
Ron%Waters:%Some%people%will%um%you%know%some%of%the%uh%developers%in%that%area%[inaudible].%%So,%It%
adds,%I%forgot%what%it%is,%around%they%said%about%a%dollar%something,%dollar%forty%cents%per%square%foot.%%
Um,%so%you%cant%put%a%number%[inaudible].%%You%want%to%protect%your%family%for%the%investment.%Some%of%
4%
%
AK%
T"58%March%2,%2011%
it%deals%with%new%expansion%of%properties.%%[inaudible]%They%didnt%want%that.%Its%amazing%how%they%have%
uh%they%try%they%need%a%couple%of%ways%of%forcing%the%agenda.%%Rather%they%call%for%the%previous%question%
that%they%did%at%the%end%of%last%session.%
Tyron%Ali:%Yeah.%%
Ron%Waters:%Or%they%say%whatever%you%find%or%introduce%remains.%%We%cant%win%no%fights%right%now.%
23:22%
Tyron%Ali:%Heres%a%suggestion.%%
Ron%Waters:%Uh"huh.%
Tyron% Ali:% Whenever% the% developers% are% looking% for% real% solutions% to% problems% such% as% that,% there% are%
ways%to%get%through%them.%%
Ron%Waters:%Okay.%%
Tyron%Ali:%Um%however,%we%cannot%and%may%not%include%new%construction.%%
Ron%Waters:%Okay.%
Tyron%Ali:%There%are%ways%around%that.%
Ron%Waters:%Okay.%%
Ron%Waters:%Now%thats%what%I%call%a%hot%cup.%
Unknown%Female:%[Inaudible]%
Ron%Waters:%Hot%tea.%%
Unknown%Female:%What%kind%of%tea?%[Inaudible]%
Ron%Waters:%[Inaudible]%missing.%%Do%you%have%any%honey?%
LaughterRon%Waters:%You%go%girl.%%
Laughter%
Ron%Waters:%I%like%this%place,%man.%
Tyron%Ali:%I%do,%too.%I%do,%too.%
Ron%Waters:%That%place%last%night%wasnt%happening.%%
5%
%
AK%
T"58%March%2,%2011%
Tyron%Ali:%You%know%something.%%I%will,%I%will%share%this%with%you.%You%see%how%she%was%giving%me%a%hard%
time.%%
Ron%Waters:%Yeah.%%
LaughterUnknown%Female:%[inaudible]%regular%tea%and%also%decaffeinated.%%
Ron%Waters:%[inaudible]%
Unknown%Female:%[inaudible]%%
25:08%
Unknown% Female:% Its% a% good% one.% % Alright?% % Okay.% % When% yall% ready% to% order% just% let% me% know.% % My%
names%Kim,%okay?%
Ron%Waters:%Thank%you.%%
Tyron%Ali:%Okay%thank%you%dear.%
Unknown%Female:%Youre%welcome.%%Did%you%want%another%drink?%
Tyron%Ali:%Um,%no%could%I%just%have%a%diet%coke?%
Unknown%Female:%Sure%can.%
25:21%
Tyron%Ali:%Thats%for%you.%Thats%$500.%
Ron%Waters:%Aw,%thank%you.%
Tyron%Ali:%Sure.%Youre%welcome,%brother.%%
Tyron%Ali:%Did%you%have%a%good%turnout%this%morning?%%
Ron%Waters:%%Pretty%decent.%%You%know,%we%got%some%stuff%in%the%mail.%Thats%what%normally%does.%
Tyron%Ali:%Good.%
%Ron%Waters:%You%know,%people%send%stuff%early.%%We%send%letters%and%we%uh%[inaudible].%%So%thats,%I%got%
uh%I%need%to%[inaudible].%%
Tyron%Ali:%Uh"huh.%
%
6%
%
AK%
T"58%March%2,%2011%
Ron%Waters:%Hey%look,%I%had%to%make%phone%calls.%%We%got%to%plan%far%in%advance%because%[inaudible]%%
Tyron%Ali:%Thats%right,%thats%right.%%
26:32%
Tyron%Ali:%And%I%will,%I%will%share%this%with%you.%%You%know,%to%be%able.%%I%should%I%have%my%cards%like%next%
week.% % And% essentially% this% is% whats% happening.% % Cambria% Legal% Center% is% going% to% become% the% entity%
through%which%all%of%our%clients%will%be%represented.%
Ron%Waters:%Okay.%
Tyron% Ali:% Because,% it% ,it,% it% takes% the% format% of% a% legal% center,% I% dont% have% to% disclose% as% much% as% I%
normally%would.%
Ron%Waters:%Okay.%%
Tyron%Ali:%Understand%what%Im%saying?%
Tyron%Ali:%Right.%
Ron%Waters:%Right%
Ron%Waters:%So%you%like%it%that%way?%
Tyron%Ali:%Its%not,%its%not%that%I%uh%like%it%that%way.%Everybody%prefers%it%that%way.%%[inaudible].%%You%see,%
you%see%%what%Im%saying?%%So%it%becomes%a%practical%issue.%%You%know?%But%I,%but%what%I%was%going%to%say%
to%you%uh%in%terms%of%uh%the%uh...%
[Sneeze]%
Tyron%Ali:%God%bless%you.%%
Ron%Waters:%Thank%you.%
Tyron%Ali:%In%terms%of%the%non"profit,%right?%%What,%what,%what%is%that?%%I%know%the%ex"offender%thing%is%
close%to%your%heart.%%But,%but%besides%that,%right,%what%is%another?%
Ron%Waters:%Health%
Tyron%Ali:%Health,%huh?%%
27:55%
Ron%Waters:%[inaudible].%...resolution.%
Tyron%Ali:%Excuse%me,%uh"huh%
7%
%
AK%
T"58%March%2,%2011%
Ron%Waters:%And%now%I%we%go%last%week%I%run%up%to%DC,%they%call%me%up%there.%%To%uh%[inaudible].%%You%
know,%she,%she%likes%it.%%I%think%its%definitely%something%she%champions%herself.%%They%dont%have%to%do%
that%[inaudible],%you%know?%%She%said%uh%she%wants%to%be%the%one%who%introduces%my%resolution.%
Tyron%Ali:%%See,%see%the%resolutions%all%well%and%good.%%What%were%looking%at%is%look%uh%one%of,%one%of%
your%folks,%you%know%who%were%talking%about%Lets%Move%thing%that%Michelle%Obama%is%dealing%with.%
Ron%Waters:%Uh"huh.%Right.%
Tyron%Ali:%So,%for%me,%Ive%kind%of%got%something%like%that.%%%
Ron%Waters:%%Okay.%
Tyron%Ali:%%But%what%I%want%to%do,%and%I%dont%know%what%your%thoughts%are,%but%its%to%set%up%a%non"profit%
that%we%can%have%a%small%amount%of%success%that%we%can%create%a%pilot%program%from.%%Not%something%
like%with%health%necessarily%or%something%uh%that,%that,%that%you%like%besides%those%two.%%Is%there%like%a%
third%or%a%fourth%option?%
Ron%Waters:%Uhm%
Tyron%Ali:%Cheers,%to%you%sir,%and%your%new%appointment.%
Laughter%
Ron%Waters:%Thank%you.%%
30:10%
Cell-Phone30:24%
Ron%Waters:%Thanks.%
30:32%
Ron% Waters:% So% Im% trying% to% think% of% something% else% that% would% be,% uh.% % Um,% the% other% thing% is% that%
[inaudible].%%On%the%agenda,%you%know,%the%uh%voter%education%and%voter%registration%and%uh%to%develop%
power%from%those.%%Thats%something%else%that%we%[inaudible].%
Tyron%Ali:%Something%for%Obama.%%
Ron%Waters:%No%[inaudible].%One%of%the%things%that%is%lacking%in%our%community%is%[inaudible].%%We%dont%
have%any%[inaudible].%%
31:%23"32:32%
[inaudible]%%
8%
%
AK%
T"58%March%2,%2011%
32:32%
Tyron% Ali:% Let% me% tell% you% something,% alright?% % You% see% Jim% Davis,% Jim% Graham% rather,% Im% sorry.% % Jim%
Graham?%%Because%they%have%the%career%center,%we%can%actually%put%together%a%program%that%not%only%
they%can%utilize%for%the%GED%uh%students%who%are%over%18%and%eligible%to%vote.%%Who%can%create%a%program%
[inaudible].%%Anything%that%you,%Ill%just%say%this%to%you,%because%I,%I%feel%like%you%have%the%capability%to%
move%away%from%the%local%spotlight%and,%and,%and%sort%of%get%some%of%that%national%attention.%%If%we%can%
create%a%pilot%program%that%serves%disenfranchised%citizens%and%it%also%addresses%voter%education%along%
with% voter% registration% and% then% help% the% new% voters% understand,% not% just% the% importance% of%
registration,%but%the%importance%of%consistently%voting.%%You%know,%those%could%be%the%talking%points%for%
an%introduction%under%the%power.%%
Ron%Waters:%The%power%of%the%[inaudible].%%You%know%who%called%me%today?%[inaudible]%
Tyron%Ali:%Jessie?%
Tyron%Ali:%Thats%fantastic!%
Ron%Waters:%[inaudible].%
Laughter%
Ron%Waters:%[inaudible]%Yes!%[inaudible]%
34:42"35:13%
[inaudible]%%
Tyron%Ali:%When%is%he%[inaudible].%
Ron%Waters:%We%can%go%eat.%%
Tyron% Ali:% If% you% want% me% take% you% guys% out% to% dinner,% wherever.% % Let% me% know.% % Philly% or% up% here,%
wherever.%%Just%let%me%know.%
Ron% Waters:% [inaudible]% I% gave% myself% a% Brooklyn% [inaudible].% % [inaudible]% corporate% properties.%%
[inaudible]%Its%like%something%that%they%know%that%is%important.%%[inaudible]%
35:46"36:50%
[inaudible]%
36:52%
Tyron%Ali:%Thats%huge.%%Thats%huge.%
9%
%
AK%
T"58%March%2,%2011%
Tyron%Ali:%Make%sure%its%uh,%its,%its%one%of%those%things%that%what%with,%medical.%%See%anything%with%the%
medical% doctors% are% usually% [inaudible]% concerned% about% because% doctors% are% some% interesting% folks.%%
They%tend%to%have%these%insurmountable%egos.%%
Ron%Waters:%Well%they%do,%theyve%got%maids.%
Tyron%Ali:%Yes,%and,%and,%and%there%is%a%reason%why%so%few%medical%doctors%are%in%your%line%of%work.%%They%
are% incapable% of% understanding% the% balancing% act,% you% know?% % Theres% some% folks% who% popularize%
themselves%as%physicians%and%as%leaders%within%their%communities.%%And%while%you%may%have%a%medical%
degree,%it%doesnt%lend%itself%to%understand%all%of%the%idiosyncrasies%of%politics.%%It%doesnt.%And%so,%erring%
on%side%of%caution%is%always%an%important%thing.%%Ill%give%you%an%example:%the%University%of%Pennsylvania,%
they%have%a%huge%vascular%program,%huge.%%However,%you%know,%uh,%the%University%of%Pennsylvania,%you%
know,%theyre%lobbying%to%get%more%and%more%money.%%They%are%not%able%to%get%as%much%as%they%once%
did.%%So,%align%yourself%with%doctors%perhaps%from%Johns%Hopkins%Medical%Center.%%May%be%better%off%for%
you,% and% very% different% in% terms% of% the% approach.% % Besides% that,% University% of% Pennsylvania% Medical%
Center,%the%hospital,%is%actually%a%good%hospital.%%But%it%is%not%as%world"renown%as,%lets%say,%Johns%Hopkins%
University%or%Boston%Medical.%%Im%sorry,%Massachusetts%General.%%Its%not,%its%not%as%well%known%because%
on%the%Congressional%level,%when%you%really%want%to%make%an%impact,%youre%not%really%looking%for%a%local%
institution.%%You%want%something%where%these%folks%are%truly%at%the%top%of%their%game%and%considered%the%
leaders%in%their%community.%%Not%the%uh%vascular%surgeons%of%the%University%of%Pennsylvania.%%They%can%
be%adjunct%professors,%they%could%be%professors.%%They%are%required%to%teach%a%certain%amount%of%hours%
and%they%sort%of,%uhm,%they%up%sell%that%like%its%something%very%unique.%%And%it%probably%is,%but%its%very%
different% when% you% have% Johns% Hopkins% University% on% your% card% as% opposed% to% the% University% of%
Pennsylvania.%%Especially%the%cost%"%dollars%are%tied%to%this.%Theres%no%way%University%of%Penn%than%Johns%
Hopkins,%impossible.%%
Ron%Waters:%So%youre%saying%that,%so%much,%that%my%staff%[inaudible].%
Tyron% Ali:% Yes,% yes,% yes% thats% one% thing.% % The% other% thing% is,% you% have% to% make% some% headway% into%
different% um% medical% institutions.% % Like,% for% neurology,% for% example,% Jefferson% University,% wonderful%
institution,%because%every%medical%center,%every%medical%complex,%every%university,%thats%attached%to%a%
teaching% hospital,% for% example,% um,% they% all% have% their% specialties.% % And% understanding% those% nuances%
makes%you%look%like%you%truly%understands%not%just%the%industry,%but%you%understand%what%theyre%good%
at.%%You%know%where%the%dollars%are%attached%and%you%also%know%how%to%make%them%more%uh%aware%of%
the%problems%at%the%local%level.%%And%try%to%address%that,%you%know,%one%step%at%a%time.%%But,%essentially%
youre%bringing%the%leaders%of%the%group%to%the%discussion%table.%%Youre%not%just%bringing%in%one%intuition.%%
Because%then%it%looks%biased%too.%%You%know,%if%you%do%it%at%the%national%level,%you%know,%think%globally%
act%locally.%%There%you%go.%
Ron%Waters:%Okay.%%So%that%happens,%what,%that%makes%sense.%I%like%that%angle.%
10%
%
AK%
T"58%March%2,%2011%
Tyron%Ali:%Johns%Hopkins,%Doctors%Without%Borders.%%The%Shine%Dine%institute.%%I%mean%I%could%help%you%
out%here,%you%know,%I%know%these%folks.%%
Ron%Waters:%Thats%what%I%need,%I%need%to%know%who%to%send%it.%%Cause%lets%say%it%passes%the%national%
[inaudible].%%
Tyron% Ali:% Okay.% % The% American% Medical% Society% as% a% trade% organization,% and% when% I% say% trade% I% mean%
industry%trade.%%Yes,%you%know,%yes,%but%again,%what%exactly%is%tied%to%sending%that%kind%of%information%to%
them.% % I% mean,% are% they% willing% to% create% a% non"profit% with% us% that,% you% know,% sort% of% looks% at% specific%
health%issues?%%I%mean,%at%the%end%of%the%day,%if%your%approach%is%truly%health,%picking%one%or%two%physical%
ailments% is% something% that% can% get% you% tied% to% something% that% may% not% be% popular.% % And% if% its% not%
popular,%theres%no%money%attached,%like%sarcoidosis,%for%example.%%Nobody%knows%what%that%is.%
Ron%Waters:%Right,%right.%%
Tyron%Ali:%You%know?%
Ron%Waters:%Thats%weird.%
42:46%
Tyron%Ali:%It%is%weird.%%Um%if%you%talk%about%lupus,%for%example,%is%getting%more%of%a%voice.%%Schizophrenia%
is%getting,%you%know,%uh%more%of%a%voice.%%But,%but%vascular%disease%like%peripheral%arterial%disease,%um%
people%want%to%hear%about%that%%because%its%important.%%However,%however,%they%dont%truly%have%the%
attention% for% that.% % They% are% more% interested% in% stem% cell.% % Theyre% more% interested% in% the% Susan% G.%
Komen%Foundation%because%there%are%dollars%attached%to%that.%%When%you%mentioned%to%me%the%other%
day%that%you%have%a%think%tank,%you%know%of%medical%doctors,%I%always%listen%to%things%like%that%and%then%I%
try% to% understand% exactly% what% you% mean.% % Normally% when% you% have% a% group% of% physicians% that% are%
attached%to%a%specific%issue,%they%have%an%agenda.%%And,%and%they%might%not%be%willing.%%The%problem%with%
doctors%is%that%theyre%never%willing%to%finance%their%ideas%and%you%cant%deal%with%people%like%that,%its%a%
waste%of%your%time,%my%friend.%
Ron%Waters:%Yeah%it%is.%[inaudible].%%They%have%no%lobby%going.%%
43:56%
Tyron% Ali:% Yeah,% because% they% dont% want% to% pay% guys% like% us,% you% know?% % They% truly% do% believe%
everything%is%free.%%Theres%a%guy,%theres%a%guy%out%in,%hes%in%Canada.%%Hes%Indian.%%Um.%%Well"respected%
surgeon.%%And%Ill%tell%you%something,%dont%uh,%if%you%could,%the,%the%big%thing%today%really%is%neurological%
science,%you%know?%%There%are%less%and%less%dollars%attached%to%HIV%but%there%are%a%lot%of%dollars%attached%
to%autism.%%%
Ron%Waters:%%Hmm.%
11%
%
AK%
T"58%March%2,%2011%
Tyron% Ali:% % You% see,% you% see% what% Im% saying?% % There% is% not% straight% path.% % You% have% to% be% able% to%
understand%some%of%the%issues%from%focal%points%and%then%be%able%to%talk%to%the%legislature%about%what%
needs%to%happen%so%you%can%have%a%comprehensive%program.%
Tyron%Ali:%Yes.%%The%other%thing%is,%autism%could%be%tied%to%several%different%items:%genetics,%environment,%
water%supply,%you%know?%
Tyron% Ali:% There% was% a% study% that% was% published% by% a% British% physician% and% uh% you% know,% he% sort% of%
refuted%the,%the,%the%uh,%the%uh,%the,%the,%the%uh%information%that%speaks%to%the%vaccine%and%how%helpful%
it%could%be%in%there%logically%against%that%disease.%%Um,%again%thats%one%voice.%%You%need%uh%a%group%of%
like"minded%individuals%who%would%then%provide%resources.%%
45:50%
Ron%Waters:%For%who?%
Tyron%Ali:%Provide%resources.%%You%know?%%Like,%like%speak%to%something%that%is%general,%not%too%specific,%
and%make%sure%that%theres%large%following.%%Ill%give%you%an%example.%%One%of%the%symptoms%of%autism%is%
ADD% or% AD/HD.% % People% know% about% these% things% so% there% is% a% voice.% % There% is% a% voice% that% is% in%
Philadelphia,%Harrisburg,%anywhere%you%look,%you%can%get%support.%%And%when%you%get%support,%you%can%
create%a%non"profit.%
Ron%Waters:%Yeah.%
Tyron%Ali:%You%see%what%Im%saying?%%Right,%thats%what%Im%talking%about.%%Did%you%get%a%chance%to%look%at%
the%menu?%
Ron%Waters:%No%[inaudible]%
Tyron%Ali:%No,%no%cod.%
Ron%Waters:%I%know%what%to%get.%%
Tyron%Ali:%Oh%you%know%what%you%want?%%
Ron%Waters:%[inaudible]%crab%cakes.%
Tyron%Ali:%Crab%cakes.%You%know%what,%Im%looking%for%em.%
Ron%Waters:%Maybe%[inaudible]%
Tyron%Ali:%I%thought%they%changed%the%menu%a%little%bit.%%But%they%do%have%uh%your%pan%seared%Atlantic%
Cod.%
12%
%
AK%
T"58%March%2,%2011%
Tyron%Ali:%The%cod%that%you%liked?%It%has%
47:%14%
Ron%Waters:%Ill%do%the%chicken%soup.%
Tyron%Ali:%Thats%good.%%%Uh"huh.%
Ron%Waters:%Uhh..%
Tyron%Ali:%And%its%chicken%and%dumpling%soup,%so%that%must%be%good.%
Ron%Waters:%Thats%right.%
Unknown%Female:%Hi%
Tyron%Ali:%Hi,%I%think%were,%were%getting%there.%
Ron%Waters:%Yeah%we%are.%
Tyron%Ali:%Which%one%would%you%like?%%The%chicken%soup?%
Ron%Waters:%Chicken,%yeah%chicken%and%dumpling%soup.%
Unknown%Female:%Chicken%and%dumpling%soup?%
Tyron%Ali:%Two%please.%
Unknown%Female:%Youre%welcome.%
Tyron%Ali:%Bowls.%
Unknown% Female:% I% just% want% to% let% you% know% inside% the% dumpling% they% have% a% small% amount% of% feta%
cheese%inside.%
Tyron%Ali:%Okay.%
Unknown%Female%:%Is%that%okay?%
Ron%Waters:%What?%
Unknown%Female:%Theres%feta%cheese%inside%um%the%dumplings.%
Ron%Waters:%Cheese%is%okay.%
Unknown%Female:%Okay.%Thought%Id%just%let%everybody%know.%
Ron%Waters:%[inaudible]%no%other%meat.%
13%
%
AK%
T"58%March%2,%2011%
Unknown%Female:%Oh%no,%no%just%cheese.%%
Ron%Waters:%Okay.%
Unknown%Female:%Okay?%%Just%want%a%bowl%each%
Tyron%Ali:%Yeah""%
Ron% Waters:% Now% and% I% know% that% night% that% we% was% here% with% um% before% you% had% crab% cakes% on% the%
menu.%[inaudible].%
Unknown%Female:%This%is%a%brand%new%menu.%Just%started%this%week.%
Unknown%Female:%Uh"huh.%%
Ron%Waters:%%It%looked%brand%new.%
[laughter]%
Unknown%Female:%Yeah.%Yeah.%[inaudible]%cups%or%bowls?%
Tyron%Ali:%Bowls.%%
Unknown%Female:%Bowls?%
Tyron%Ali:%Yes.%
Unknown%Female:%Ill%get%that%for%you.%
Tyron%Ali:%Thank%you.%Can%you%bring%some%bread%for%us%too%please?%
Unknown%Female:%[inaudible]%%
Tyron%Ali:%Thats%fine.%%
Unknown%Female:%Okay,%do%you%want%to%get%some%sides%or%just%salad%for%it?%
Tyron%Ali:%Um,%okay,%thats%fine.%%You%should%eat%some%salad%too%cause%youre%not%feeling%that%well.%
Ron%Waters:%No%[inaudible]%
Tyron%Ali:%You%did,%so%youre%skipping%tonight?%
[laughter]%
14%
%
AK%
T"58%March%2,%2011%
Unknown%Female:%Always%eat%your%vegetables.%
[laughter]%
Ron%Waters:%Youre%absolutely%right%[inaudible]%
Unknown%Female:%Alright.%
Ron%Waters:%Alright%[inaudible]""%
Tyron%Ali:%Save%that%for%the%entre%[inaudible]""%
Ron%Waters:%[inaudible]""%
Tyron%Ali:%What%would%you%recommend%being%that%the%menu%is%new.%
Unknown%Female:%This%is%new.%%I%can%tell%you%what%we%try%tonight.%%Uh,%the%half%chicken%is%very%good,%with%
the%glaze%um%honey.%
Tyron%Ali:%Uh"huh.%
Unknown%Female:%Black%pepper,%very%good.%%Um,%smoke%cheddar%rigatonis%very%good%
[sneeze]%
Unknown%Female:%Bless%you.%
Tyron%Ali:%Bless%you.%
Unknown% Female:% And% what% is% did% we.% % Everything% else% we% try% was% the% hamburger% and% um% so% we% um%
nachos%that%we%have.%
Ron%Waters:%Oh%that,%that%chicken%sounds%good.%
Tyron%Ali:%Thats%what%Im%going%to%have.%
Ron%Waters:%Yeah%
Unknown%Female:%Do%you%want%the%uh%[inaudible]%
Ron%Waters:%The%um%roasted%garlic%potatoes?%
Unknown%Female:%Thats%very%good.%You%want%to%get%that?%%
Ron%Waters:%Yeah.%%
Still%the%soup?%
Tyron%Ali:%Yes.%
15%
%
AK%
T"58%March%2,%2011%
Ron%Waters:%Aw%absolutely.%
Tyron%Ali:%Of%course,%absolutely.%
Unknown%Female:%Help%yourself%to%the%salad%bar.%
Tyron%Ali:%Thank%you,%dear.%%When%you%get%a%chance,%could%I%have%a%refill?%%Thank%you.%
49:35%
Ron%Waters:%Now,%I%like%that.%%You%know,%what%you%just%said.%%[inaudible]%main%issues.%%[inaudible].%%
Tyron%Ali:%Yes%
50:12%
Tyron%Ali:%Yes.%%See,%see%the,%the,%the%other%thing%is,%see,%Im%trying%to%get%you%to%this%place%where%you%see,%
and%I%know%that%you%do,%but%just%to%clarify%a%certain%thing.%%Let%me%just%share%something.%%So,%this%is%our%
central%issue:%autism.%%Nobody%knows%what%causes%it.%%You%can%talk%to%the%doctors%about%[inaudible].%%%You%
can%talk%about%the%tobacco%issues.%%
Tyron%Ali:%You%know,%you%know%what%I%mean?%%
Ron%Waters:%Yeah.%
Tyron%Ali:%You%can%talk%about%this%issue%with%big%pharma,%different%[inaudible].%%Right.%Now%we%have%folk%
at%Pfizer,%we%have%a%couple%of%folks%at%GSK%that%we%can%reach%out%to,%you%know?%
[pause]%
51:11%
Tyron%Ali:%Whos%going%to%talk%to%you%like%this?%%%
[laughter]%
Ron%Waters:%This%is%good%for%me%because%this%discussion%about%the%non"profit%[inaudible]%
Tyron%Ali:%Wheres%he%from,%the%school%districts?%
Ron%Waters:%No,%he%works%out%here.%He%works%with%the%governor%in%some%kind%of%way.%
Tyron%Ali:%Okay.%
Ron%Waters:%But%he%oversees%in%discussions%[inaudible]%
16%
%
AK%
T"58%March%2,%2011%
Tyron%Ali:%Mmmhmm.%
Ron%Waters:%Um,%but%he%met%with%us%last%week.%%But,%as%I%said%hes%a%doctor%person.%%Doctor%person%who%
is%umm%University%Penn%um,%you%know,%heart%surgeon%[inaudible].%%%
Tyron%Ali:%Anything%that%we%do%with%you%
Ron%Waters:%Uh"huh%
Tyron%Ali:%We%will%do%specifically%with%you.%%Im%not%
Ron%Waters:%No,%no%I%aint%[inaudible].%%They%werent%as%specific%as%you%are%
Tyron%Ali:%They%dont%know%
Ron%Waters:%No,%they%dont%
Tyron%Ali:%They%dont%know.%%
Tyron%Ali:%Hes,%hes,%hes,%hes%uh%you%know%um,%most%doctors,%most%doctors,%as%we%were%just%talking,%
they%are%very%good%in%their%area.%%The%minute%you%get%out%of%that"%
Ron%Waters:%Yeah.%
Tyron%Ali:%Youre%in%trouble.%
Ron%Waters:%Oh%yeah%[inaudible]%
Tyron%Ali:%Because%you%cant%understand%the%relationship%and%the%skill%sets.%
Ron%Waters:%Yeah.%But%he%asks%for%[inaudible]%to%what%you%are%doing%because%its%natural.%%You%only%need%
two% African% Americans% who% have,% who% have% um% the% capability% in% the% state% in% the% end.% % One% of% the%
professor,%and%he,%who%still%is,%is%a%practice%surgeon%um%so%I%mean%he%does%add%some%of%that%credibility%
but%hes%not%a%leader%[inaudible]%just%because%
Tyron%Ali:%No.%
Ron% Waters:% No,% because,% and% he% dont% want% to% be.% % He% promotes% me.% % He% tries% to% put% me% out% front.%%
Because%he%knows%that%he%cant%carry%this%forward,%but%I%can.%
Tyron%Ali:%Right.%
Ron%Waters:%But,%um,%but%they%are%not%in%charge%of%this.%%Is%this,%I%was%saying%its%funny%because%we%were%
talking%about%[inaudible]%but%they%didnt%have%a%clue%about%how%[inaudible].%
Tyron%Ali:%How%the%fish%swims.%
17%
%
AK%
T"58%March%2,%2011%
Ron%Waters:%Yeah.%I%know%you%do.%
[laughter]%
Ron%Waters:%[inaudible].%%And%that,%too.%Whos%that%guy?%%
Tyron%Ali:%Thats%what%she%said%about%me?%%
Ron%Waters:%Yeah.%
Tyron%Ali;%She%was%eyeing%up%my%soup.%
Ron%Waters:%Yeah%
[laughter]%
%Ron%Waters:%[inaudible].%Trying%to%figure%out%how%all%that%stuff%falls%to%place.%%Not%just%any%[inaudible].%
Tyron%Ali:%I%appreciate%you%saying%that,%Ron.%%Thank%you.%
Ron%Waters:%Yeah.%
Tyron%Ali:%You%know%Im%the%only%guy%from%Philly%thats%our%color,%you%know?%%Ive%seen%uh%our%boy%from%
Wojak%up%here%today].%%I%was,%I%was%coming%around%the%corner%and%he%was%like,%so%they%put%you%up%here%
now,%uh?%So,%what%do%you%mean,%they%put%me%up%here?%%I%put%me%up%here,%bro.%You%know?%But%uh%
Ron%Waters:%Now,%I%was%talking%to%some%members%today.%%
Tyron%Ali:%Uh"huh.%%
Ron%Waters:%Um,%about%caucus%[inaudible]%
Tyron%Ali:%Yes.%
Ron%Waters:%[inaudible].%%
55:22%
Tyron%Ali:%You%do.%You%do.%
Ron%Waters:%Gotta%get%
Tyron%Ali:%Maybe%we%should%have%dinner%with%Preston%next%week.%
Ron%Waters:%Yeah.%%Again?%
Ron%Waters:%No.%We%gotta%do,%we%gotta%plan.%%I%think%that%[inaudible]%%%
18%
%
AK%
T"58%March%2,%2011%
Tyron%Ali:%Well,%the%thing,%the%thing%about%its%when%we%were%starting%up%our%PAC.%%
Ron%Waters:%Alright.%
Tyron%Ali:%Cause%our%PAC%
[sneeze]%
Tyron%Ali:%God%bless%you.%%
Ron%Waters:%Thank%you%man.%
Tyron%Ali:%Is%based%out%of%New%York.%%
55:53%
Tyron%Ali:%What%made%it%so,%um,%I%guess%the%adjective%is%successful%because%they%knew%that%I%knew%the%
Indian% people.% % And% in% order% to% garner% resources% whenever% we% needed% it,% I% was% able% to% do% that,% as%
opposed%to%doing%fundraisers.%%Because,%honestly,%fundraisers%in%this%economy%is%a%waste%of%time.%%You%
have%to%build%friendships,%build%relationships,%and%be%able%to%have%access.%%If%you%can%have%access%and%you%
can% draw% down% on% those% relationships% that% say,% hey,% this% important% to% your% group.% % How% would% you%
feel%about,%what%might%you%be%able%to%bring%to%the%table,%because%this%is%what%we%believe,%and%this%is%how%
we%truly%believe%in%terms%of%the%legislature,%how%we%can%bring%a%public%awareness%to%your%problem.%%We%
cant% do% it% by% ourselves.% % We% need% to% be% able% to% have% resources% in% place% to% write% issue% papers,% to% get%
studies%done.%%And,%and%there%are%folks,%Ill%give%you%an%example.%%Um,%a%couple%of%gas%stations,%uh%one%of%
them%is%very%large%gas%station.%%Its%not%in%Pennsylvania%but%they%wanted%it%to%be%converted%to%a%daycare%
center.%%Now%they%couldnt%let%that%happen%%
Unknown%Female:%There%you%go%sir.%%
Tyron%Ali:%"%because.%%Thank%you%dear.%You%need%a%phase%2%test.%
Ron%Waters:%Okay.%
Tyron%Ali:%In%order%to%look%at%soil%content.%
Tyron%Ali:%Yes.%You%know?%%So%in%order%to%do%that,%what%we%did,%we%created%a%non"profit%organization%and%
partnered%up%with%the%bank%to%be%able%to%do%financial%literacy%for%that%day"care%center.%%
Ron%Waters:%Okay.%
Tyron% Ali:% And% that% project,% I% mean% the% project% didnt% go% forward% because% the% folks% ran% out% of% money.%%
But% thats% the% way% that% we% can% get% the% fish% to% swim% in% our% direction.% % You% have% to% understand% the%
process,%you%know?%
%
19%
%
AK%
T"58%March%2,%2011%
Ron%Waters:%What%about%[inaudible]%
Tyron% Ali:% Heres,% heres% the% piece,% youve% got% two% different% types% of% memberships.% % Youve% got% full%
membership%in%the%associate%level.%%Now,%if%youre%PAC,%lets%say%you%set%up%a%non"profit%organization%to%
serve%as%an%advisor%group,%to%the%Shale%membership.%%Uh%now,%lets%say%uh,%and%let%the%Black%Caucus%sort%
of% leverage% that% relationship.% % Because% remember,% everybody% in% that% Shale% membership% or% associate%
membership%is%paying%fifty"thousand%dollars%on%the%full%membership%piece%and%fifteen%thousand%on%the%
associate%membership%piece%per%year.%
Ron%Waters:%Okay.%
Tyron%Ali:%But%on%more%than%thirty%organizations.%%So,%youre%looking%at%a%sizable%number%of%dollar%and%the%
fact%that%we%can%create%501(c)3%around%that,%you%know,%the%health%thing%makes%you%look%fantastic.%%It%is%a%
public%situation%that%we%brought%in%autism,%we%brought%in%something%else,%we%brought%in%another%piece%
like%diet%and%nutrition.%%Those%things%[inaudible]%spectacular.%%With%the%[inaudible],%youll%be%able%to%bring%
in%resources.%
Ron%Waters:%[inaudible]%diabetes?%
Tyron%Ali:%Diabetes%would%be%popular.%%Everybody,%I%think,%in%some%way%shape%or%form,%has%a%member%of%
their%family%or,%or%,or%their,%their%close%circle%that%might%be%affected,%you%know.%%But%again,%people%love%
the%little%kids.%%Juvenile%diabetes%might%be%a%piece.%%
Ron%Waters:%Yes!%
Ron%Waters:%thats%what%Im%talking%about.%%
Tyron%Ali:%Okay.%%
Tyron%Ali:%Yeah,%the%data%centers.%Yeah.%
Ron%Waters:%[inaudible]%like%three%more.%
Tyron%Ali:%You%know,%thats,%thats%the%data%centers%are%owned%by%uh%Horst%and%Deepak%Chopra.%%A%guy%
from%uh%Norway,%Sweden%and%uh%Deepak%Chopra%who%is%from%%Boston%General.%%
Ron%Waters:%Right.%
Tyron%Ali:%I%mean,%Ive%met%his%son.%
Ron%Waters:%Right.%
20%
%
AK%
T"58%March%2,%2011%
Tyron% Ali:% Hes% a% very,% they,% they,% they% own% uh% a% clinic% out% in% Los,% Los% Angeles.% % Very,% very% smart% guy.%%
Very,%very%smart%guy.%%You%know?%%Um,%the,%the,%I%like%that%because%[inaudible]%health%system,%you%know?%%
That%might%be%the%piece.%
Ron%Waters:%Okay.%Okay.%
%Tyron%Ali:%I%should%call%Louise%tomorrow.%%Where%are%you%tomorrow?%%You%in%Philly%or%here?%%
Ron%Waters:%Ive%got%a%committee%meeting%tomorrow.%%Ill%be%here.%
Tyron%Ali:%Okay.%
Ron%Waters:%But,%juvenile%diabetes%[inaudible].%%I%have%to%do%the%main%thing.%%
Tyron%Ali:%[inaudible]%theyve%got%dollars%for%that,%you%know?%
Ron%Waters:%Right,%right.%
Tyron%Ali:%And%the%General%funded%that%money%for%that.%%Yeah,%thats%what%Im%talking%about.%%Its%great%to%
be%a%champion%of%a%cause.%
Ron%Waters:%Right.%
Tyron%Ali:%But%you%need%to%be%a%champion%of%a%cause%thats%popular.%%
[laughter]%
Ron%Waters:%[inaudible]%you.%
1:01:07%
Ron% Waters:% I% think% theres% a% lot% [inaudible]% in% this% economy.% % [inaudible]% more% than% this.% % These% are%
cultural%issues%that%we%have%in%our%population%that%they%[inaudible].%%[inaudible].%
Tyron%Ali:%Yeah.%
Ron%Waters:%[inaudible]%a%ripple%effect.%%[inaudible].%%
Tyron%Ali:%Uh"huh.%
Ron%Waters:%We%want%culture.%%You%know,%[inaudible]?%
Tyron%Ali:%Yes.%
Ron%Waters:%Based%on%[inaudible]%on%those%things%%%
Tyron%Ali:%Yes,%heart%attacks.%%
Ron%Waters:%Yeah.%
21%
%
AK%
T"58%March%2,%2011%
Tyron%Ali:%Gastric%issues.%%
Ron%Waters:%Right.%
Tyron%Ali:%They%have%a%lot%of%esophageal%issues%because%they%smoke%so%much.%%
Ron%Waters:%Yup.%
Tyron%Ali:%You%know.%%They%have%um%rising%rates%of%prostate%cancer,%you%know.%But,%Im%in%love%with%that%
juvenile%diabetes%idea%for%education%purposes%
Ron%Waters:%Education.%%Education.%%
Tyron%Ali:%only.%That%allows%
Ron%Waters:%Right.%
Tyron%Ali:%us%to%be%a%conduit%between%the%school%district%and%the%legislature.%%Youve%got%a%lot%of%public%
schools.%We%can%look%at%the%parochial%and%the%public%schools.%%We%can%look%at%the%charter%schools.%%We%
can%talk%a%host%of%different%[inaudible].%%And%this%is%the%kind%of%program%that%you%can%start%locally%
Tyron%Ali:%and%expand.%%And%expand%And%I%mean,%theres%always%dollars%attached%to%that.%
Ron%Waters:%Right.%%And%that%would%grow%beyond%this%being%just%the%caucus.%
Tyron%Ali:%Yes.%
Ron%Waters:%Okay?%%Thatll%make%me%[inaudible]%because%I%want%to%help%the%[inaudible].%
Tyron%Ali:%Whos%the%chair?%
Ron%Waters:%%John%Myers.%
Tyron%Ali:%Oh%man.%%Oh%boy!%%I%know%hes%sick.%%What%does%he%have,%cancer?%
Ron%Waters:%I%dont%know%
Tyron%Ali:%Clarence%told%me%he%was%real%sick.%%
Tyron%Ali:%Ive%seen%Clarence%a%couple%weeks%ago.%%
Ron%Waters:%[inaudible].%%
Tyron%Ali:%Just%in%case.%
Ron%Waters:%Just%in%case%you%cant%show%up.%Mark%will%take%over.%[pause]%Okay?%
%
22%
%
AK%
T"58%March%2,%2011%
Tyron%Ali:%And%the%other%thing%that%uh%would%make%sense%whatever%material%we,%we%print%up%
Tyron%Ali:%""to%have%it%logged%into,%translated%into,%sorry,%into%uh%Cambodian,%Liberian.%
Ron%Waters:%Right.%
1:03:56%
Tyron%Ali:%Uh,%Spanish.%%All%of%those,%all%of%those%immigrant%communities%where%dollars%are%taxed.%
Ron%Waters:%Right.%
Tyron%Ali:%And%we%can%find%the%membership%from%the%consulate%because%they%have%folks%that%they%know.%
Ron%Waters:%Right.%
Tyron%Ali:%And,%and%then%expand%your%donor%list.%%Thats%the,%uh%Ron%and%I%know%this%sounds%sort%of%self"
serving,%but%the%truth%is%you%have%to%expand%your%donor%list.%
Ron%Waters:%Yes.%
Tyron%Ali:%And,%and%I%know%thats%going%to%take%you%out%of%your%comfort%zone.%%
Ron%Waters:%Yup.%
Tyron%Ali:%But%that%is%what%it%is.%%
Ron%Waters:%Yeah%it%is.%%And%thats%where,%thats%one%problem%where%I%have,%Im%not%the%best.%No%where%
near%the%level%I%should.%%And%I%know%I%have%my%strengths%and%weaknesses.%%I%know%I%do.%
Tyron%Ali:%The%piece%with%that%young%woman%this%morning,%Anita?%%She%scares%me.%%
Ron%Waters:%For%real?%
1:04:45%
Tyron% Ali:% Uh"huh.% % Because,% you% dont% know% who% I% am% and% for% you% to% [inaudible]% start% this% those%
speaking%clients.%%[2-snaps].%%Just%like%that.%%I%mean,%we%are%friends,%you%know%what%I%mean?%And%Brians!%
the%kind%of%guy,%I%mean%theres%this%one%guy%who%works%for%him.%%Mustafa%Rasheed.%%Mustafa%Rasheed%
and%I%grew%up%next%door%to%each%other.%%
Ron%Waters:%Right.%
Tyron%Ali:%So%to%go%to%him%and%say,%hey%what%are%you%doing%now?%%
Ron%Waters:%Right.%%
23%
%
AK%
T"58%March%2,%2011%
Tyron%Ali:%or%talk%to%Nicole%[inaudible].%
Ron%Waters:%Maybe%she%didnt%have%a%good%interaction%
Tyron%Ali:%I%think%he%must%have%said%something%to%her.%%And%hes%very%terse.%%Very%abrasive.%You%know,%
guys%who%have%a%lot%of%cash.%%And,%you%know,%try%to%tell%people%exactly%how%they%feeling,%thats%about%it.%%
You%deal%with%it%however%you%need%to.%%But,%but%
1:05:36%
Tyron%Ali:%How%did%you%meet%her?%
Ron%Waters:%She%used%to%work%for%the%senator.%Hughes.%
Tyron%Ali:%Oh%okay.%Back%in%the%day.%
Ron%Waters:%Uh"huh.%%Thats%how%I%met%her%until%he%let%her%go.%%And%then%
Tyron%Ali:%Was%it%uh%a%cordial%parting%or?%
Ron%Waters:%I%think%so.%%
Tyron%Ali:%Okay.%%
Ron%Waters:%Im%not%sure.%%
Tyron%Ali:%It%didnt%seem%like%it.%
Ron%Waters:%It%might%not%have%been.%%It%might%notve%(sic)%been.%%But%he%dont%look%good%[inaudible].%
Tyron%Ali:%Uh"huh.%%
Ron%Waters:%You%know%
Tyron%Ali:%Hell%find%a%place%for%you.%
Ron%Waters:%Yeah,%hell%probably%do.%%
Tyron%Ali:%Hes%very%much%like%Chaka%like%that.%%
Tyron%Ali:%Chaka%dont%let%good%people%go.%%
Ron%Waters:%No.%Heck%no!%
Tyron%Ali:%Look%at%how%he%kept%Blondell.%
24%
%
AK%
T"58%March%2,%2011%
Ron%Waters:%Yup.%
Tyron%Ali:%Look%at%how%long%he%kept%Cindy.%%
Ron%Waters:%Oh.%
Ron%Waters:%Yeah.%%
1:06:19%
Ron%Waters:%[inaudible]%local%races?%
Tyron%Ali:%Oh%man.%%
Ron%Waters:%[inaudible]%council%races?%
Tyron%Ali:%See,%the,%the%thing%about%it,%and%I,%and%I%say%this%to%you%with%all%sincerity,%I%really%do%try%to%help%
you%shine.%%%
Ron%Waters:%%I%see%that%man.%
Tyron%Ali:%%You%know%what%I%mean?%
Ron%Waters:%Right.%
Tyron%Ali:%Especially%now%that%I%have%not%just%the%opportunity,%I%have%the%power.%%
Tyron%Ali:%And,%and%those%two,%if%one%is%missing,%youve%got%problems.%
Tyron%Ali:%You%know,%when%somebody%says,%well,%who%should%we%talk%about%that,then%they%call%you%and%
you%say,%well,%you%know,%we%do%have%um%an%advisor%on%this.%%His%names%Tyron%Ali,%you%need%to%call%him.%
Ron%Waters:%Right.%%
Tyron% Ali:% You% know% what% I% mean?% % Because% then,% thats% when% you% need% to% have% a% conversation% with%
him.%
Ron%Waters:%Right.%
Tyron%Ali:%You%cant%ask.%
Ron%Waters:%You%mean%
Tyron%Ali:%How%about%that?%
%
25%
%
AK%
T"58%March%2,%2011%
Ron%Waters:%""%with%a%think%tank?%
Tyron%Ali:%No,%this%PAC.%
Ron%Waters:%Oh.%
Tyron%Ali:%With%the%set%up%of%the%PAC%and%the%nonprofit.%%Because%I%can%talk%to%them%in%a%manner%that%""%
you%know,%I%can%be%frank%""%%
Ron%Waters:%Right.%
Tyron% Ali:% ""% whereas% you% might% be% somewhat% restricted.% % You% see% whats% right% here?% % This% helps%
tremendously.%%Because%they%know%from%jump%whats%going%on.%
Tyron%Ali:%Mmmhmm%
Ron%Waters:%Yeah.%
Tyron%Ali:%Yeah?%
Tyron%Ali:%Yeah.%
Ron%Waters:%I%told%this%before,%[inaudible].%%He%is%one%of%the%worst%people%that%can%give%me%advice.%%
Tyron%Ali:%Whos%that?%
Ron%Waters:%Jewell.%
Tyron%Ali:%Aww.%God.%
Ron%Waters:%No%I%knew%what%[inaudible]%
Tyron%Ali:%He%going%have%his%own%trouble.%%It%will%happen%eventually.%
Ron%Waters:%He%has%good,%he%has%never%given%me%good%advice.%%He%probably%
Tyron%Ali:%On%his%best%day,%he%could%never%be%you.%%How%bout%that?%
Ron%Waters:%He%knows%that.%%%
Tyron%Ali:%He%could%never%be%you.%
Ron% Waters:% He% doesnt% have% the% credibility% that% I% have.% % Hes% been% working% in% there% because% hes% in%
politics%and%he%does%know%a%lot%about%that.%%Hes%not%about%that.%%Hes%a%[inaudible].%
26%
%
AK%
T"58%March%2,%2011%
Tyron%Ali:%Ron,%look.%%Honestly,%I%will%tell%you%this%even%if%we%werent%sitting%here.%%Hes%not%your%league.%%
Hows%that?%
Ron%Waters:%Yeah.%
Tyron%Ali:%He%doesnt%have%that%level%of%class%or%clarity%
Ron%Waters:%Mmhmm.%
Tyron%Ali:%""about%the%issues.%%
Ron%Waters:%Right,%right.%
Tyron% Ali:% You% know?% % And% then% he% does% not% have% uh% people% approaching% him% that% genuinely% either%
adore%him%or%tremendously%respect%him.%%
Ron%Waters:%Right.%
Tyron% Ali:% Everybody% who% comes% to% him,% comes% to% him% with% an% agenda% for% themselves.% % Theyre% not%
trying%to%help%him.%%
Ron%Waters:%No.%
Tyron%Ali:%Were%trying%to%help%you,%you%know?%%Theyre%not%trying%to%help%him.%%You%know%like%he%was,%he%
was%saying%to%one%of%my%friends%that%he%doesnt%know%is%a%friend%of%mine,%the%lawyer%from%Zarwin%Baum.%%
That%came%back%to%me.%%He%said,%Ty,%I%guess%he%must%not%understand%how%things%are%truly%done%but%we%
will%give%him%uh%a%new%uh%introduction%to%how%we%operate.%
Ron%Waters:%Right.%
Tyron%Ali:%You%know,%you%cant%go%to%Zarwin%Baum%and%start%threatening%Norman%Zarwin.%%Thats,%thats%
you%just%dont%do%stuff%like%that.%%You%know,%you%want%this%and%start%demanding%stuff.%%You%cant%do%that.%
Ron%Waters:%He%thinks%like%that.%
Tyron%Ali:%You%cant%do%it.%%
Tyron%Ali:%You%cant,%you%cant,%you%know,%Norms%an%old%guy%but%he%is%
Ron%Waters:%I%dont%know%if%thats%the%[inaudible].%[inaudible]%step%down%and%[inaudible].%
Tyron%Ali:%Yeah.%
Ron%Waters:%I%say,%maybe%thats%not%the%only%way.%%Because%he%has%[inaudible].%
Tyron%Ali:%Hes%got%Blank%Rome%
27%
%
AK%
T"58%March%2,%2011%
Ron%Waters:%Hes%got%
Tyron%Ali:%I%know,%I%know.%%
Ron%Waters:%And%[inaudible]%
Tyron%Ali:%Mmhmm.%
Tyron%Ali:%He%asks%me%one%day%and%he%said,%What%are%you%doing%with%that?%I%said,%Hear%me%out%when%I%
tell%you%this,%Tyron.%%Took%it%like%a%champ,%bro.%
Ron%Waters:%Yeah.%%
[laughter]%
%[cough]%
1:10:00%
Ron% Waters:% % I% dont% know.% % You% gotta% earn% the% respect% of% people.% % You,% you% just% dont%
automatically...theres%no%such%thing%as%kings%and%queens%today%in%this%country,%man.%%You%know"%%
Tyron%Ali:%%You%have%to%work%together.%
Ron% Waters:% % You% gotta% work% together.% You% gotta% respect% people% and% then% expect% to% be% respected% in%
return.%%And%he%think%he%can%just%get%respect%and%dont%have%to%give%anything.%%You%know%who%I%am?%%Do%
you%know%who%I%am?%%Thats%his%attitude.%%Do%you%know%who%I%am?%%Even%on%a%date%with%girls.%%Its%funny%
how%this%guy%gets%attitudes%when%were%out%together%and%I%start%getting%attention%of%women.%%And%even%if%
he%got%attention%another%one,%he%wants%attention%from%both%of%them.%This%guy%[Laughter]%this%guy%got%a%
major%problem,%man.%Hes%like%a%real%child.%He%just%mad%if%somebody%else%shows%me%some%attention%even%
though% he% has% his% own% attention.% % I% can% tell% you% whats% wrong% with% this% guy.% % You% know,% its% not% even%
worth%talking%about%because%its%how%weak%he%is%as%a"%%um%%I%mean,%now,%he%gonna%probably%be%Sheriff%
because%nobody%else%is%running.%%And%um%but%it%is%what%it%is.%%Im%glad%hes%out%of%here%because"%%I%mean,%I%
know%he%still%gonna%be%in%Philly%but,%for%the%most%part,%he%cant%be%up%here%causing%mischief.%%Because%
thats%all%he%does.%%You%know,%where%he%is,%hes%causing%mischief.%%Im%glad%we%got%rid%of%him.%%
1:11:16%
Tyron%Ali:%%Whenever%the%time%is%right,%and%Im%only%reminding%you%because%I%put%my%client%on%hold,%if%you%
can,%when%you%can,%please%call%Vince%Fennerty%about%the%amount%of%money%thats%owed%to%the%Parking%
Authority%for%me.%%Because%that%will%be%very%helpful%in%putting%together%our%proposal.%[pause]%And,%and%as%
far%as%
Ron%Waters:%%What%time%is%it%now?%
28%
%
AK%
T"58%March%2,%2011%
Tyron%Ali:%%Its,%um,%its%like%quarter%to%nine.%%
Ron%Waters:%%Let%me%call%him%now.%%
Tyron%Ali:%%Okay.%
Ron%Waters:%%See%if%I%can%get%a%hold%of%him.-%Oh,%Im%missing%a%lot%of%calls.-%Im%gonna%see%on%my%phone%is%
on%vibrate%or%something.%[inaudible]%the%number%[inaudible]%%Im%missing%a%call%from%you!%%
Tyron%Ali:%%Yeah%
Ron%Waters:%%Three%calls?%%
Tyron%Ali:%%I%thought%wed%be%in%your%section%but%I%guess%not.%%Ill%fix%that%next%time.%%
Ron%Waters:%%You%called%me?%%
Tyron%Ali:%%I%called%you%a%couple%of%times%because"%
Ron%Waters:%%I%see%that,%man.%%
Tyron%Ali:%%[Laughter]%
Ron%Waters:%%I%never%knew%it.%%Im%missing%some%calls,%man.%%Thats"%%Of%course,%man.%%I%missed%a%whole%
lotta% calls.% % My% phone% aint% ringing.% % Its% not% doing% it.% % Except,% you% know% what?% % I% mustve% turned% the%
ringer%off.%%I%did%not%know%%[inaudible]%
Tyron%Ali:%%Thats%alright,%brother.%%
[pause]%
Ron%Waters:%%Let%me%see.%%Lets%see%what%we%got%[inaudible]%now.%%
[pause]%
1:13:04%
Ron%Waters%(On%Phone):%%Hey%Vince.%%Whats%up%man?%%[pause]%%No,%I%dont%need%anything%right%now%but%I%
just%wanted%to%know%something%about,%um,%Parking%Authority.%%I,%I%was,%um,%talking%with%somebody%and%
they% said% that% you% have% a% lot% of% uncollected% dollars% out% there.% % Somebody% with% a% company% thats%
interested%in%doing%%[inaudible]%%[pause]%%Linebarger?%[pause]%Six%years?%%Uh"huh.%%[pause]%%Okay.%%[pause]%%
I%knew%that%man.%%But%they%had%brought%me%a%proposal.%%They%said%that%they%could%help%you%to%be%able%to%
explain%yourself,%from%a%couple%million%dollars%to%like%"%%Even%though%youre%collecting%seventy%percent,%
its%still%so""%%I%know.%%I%remember%from%the%years%being%there%with%the%people.%%People%be%a%little%hard%
headed.%%[pause]%%My%man.%%You%alright%though,%man?%%How%are%things%going%down%there?%%[pause]%%Hey,%
hey,%hey,%hey%Vince.%Let%me%rush,%let%me%run%out%of%here%[inaudible].%%Let%me%get%back%[inaudible].%%You%
know,%I%had%a%bad"%%um%a%hit"%%um%I%dont%know.%%%The,%the%abominable%taxi%cab%the%other%day.%%[Laughter]%%
You%know,%this%guy%just%cut%right%in%front%of%me%to%go%pick%up%a%cab,%right?%%And%I%ran%out%down%the%street%
%
29%
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LG%
T"58%March%2,%2011%
with% my% daughter.% % And% this% happens,% time% and% time% again,% U"turns,% you% know% those% guys,% U"turn%
wherever%you%want%to.%%They%had%really%gotten"%%They%got%much%better.%%No,%no,%no,%%listen%to%me.%%They%
got%much%better%since%you%guys%took%it%over.%%Because%I%remember"%%Oh%yeah,%man.%%But%it,%it%was%one%
group%over%here%the%other%day%that%was%bitching.%%This,%this%Germantown%cab%company%up%here%bitching%
because%theyre%like,%they,%they%cant%afford%the%medallion%costs.%%And,%um"%%[pause]%%Yeah.%%They%called%
me%and"%%[pause]%%[Laughter]%%Yeah.%%Yeah.%%Yeah.%%[pause]%%Okay.%%Mmhmm.%%Okay.%%[pause]%%No.%%No.%%
Listen,%what%I%told%them,%I%said,%I%told%them%to%talk%to%John%Taylor%%because%I%know%he%is%on%the%uh%"%%I%
know%hes%like%the%contact%that"%%Yeah,%I%know,%I%know.%%[Laughter]%And%my%window%too,%man.%%But%I%just%
said,%let%me%talk%to%you%about%that.%%Now%the%other%thing%is,%now,%what,%what%do%you%think%about%what%
they%do%in%Atlanta,%Georgia?%%You%cant"%%Taxicabs%are%not%allowed%to%pick%people%up%out%on%the%street.%%
You%have%to%be,%um,%dispatched%to%pick%people%up.%%%
Female%Waitress:%%Did%yall%run%everybody%off?%%
Tyron%Ali:%%[Laughter]%%I%hope%not.%%
Female%Waitress:%[Laughter]%%I%said"%%Its%all%nice%and%quiet%in%here.%%
Ron%Waters(On%Phone):%%Yeah.%%Okay%Alright.%%Okay.%%%
Tyron%Ali:%%Thank%you.%%
Ron%Waters:%%Alright.%Take%care.%Alright.%
Female%Waitress:%%Did%that%tea%help?%%
Ron%Waters:%%It%did.%%Absolutely.%%
Female%Waitress:%%Here%you%go.%%Enjoy%the%chicken.%
Tyron%Ali:%%Thank%you,%maam.%%
Ron%Waters:%%Oh,%that%smells%good.%%
Female%Waitress:%%Now,%dont%yall%forget%the%salad%and%get%you%some%bread%also.%%Okay?%%
Ron%Waters:%%Okay.%%Okay.%
Tyron%Ali:%%Um...Thank%you.%
Female%Waitress:%%Youre%welcome.%%
[pause]%%
1:18:13%
Ron%Waters:%%He%told%me%to,%um,%to%get%your%information.%%And%you,%he%told%me,%in%fact,%he%told%me%that%
you%can%call%him.%%%
30%
%
LG%
T"58%March%2,%2011%
Tyron%Ali:%%Well.%%Okay.%%
Ron%Waters:%%[inaudible]%
Tyron%Ali:%%What%number%you%want%me%to%call%him%on?%%
[inaudible]%%
[pause]%
1:19:07%
Ron%Waters:%%Alright.%%Heres%his%mobile%number.%%This%ones%his%mobile.%%%
Tyron%Ali:%%Okay%
Ron%Waters:%%267%
Tyron%Ali:%%Mmhmm.%
Ron%Waters:%784"7615%
Tyron%Ali:%%Give%me%"%%Give%me%again.%%267%
Ron%Waters:%784%
Tyron%Ali:%784%
Ron%Waters:%7615%
Tyron%Ali:%%7615.%%You%know"%%
Ron%Waters:%%The%only%thing%Im%gonna%ask%you%to%do%is%give%me%till%tomorrow%to%call%him%and%give%him%
your%name.%
Tyron%Ali:%%Sure.%%Sure.%
Ron%Waters:%Okay?%%That%way%hell%know%youre%[inaudible]%
Tyron%Ali:%%Actually,%before"%%
Ron%Waters:%[inaudible]%%%
Tyron%Ali:%%I%dont%even%know%that%thats%necessary.%%What%we%could%do%is%this.%%We%go%down%there%and%
see%him.%%When%you%talk%to%him%about%the%collection%piece?%%You%and%I,%we%go%down%there%and%take%him%
out%to%lunch%at%the%Palm.%
Ron%Waters:%%Its%gonna%get%worked.%%
31%
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LG%
T"58%March%2,%2011%
Tyron%Ali:%%You%know%what%I%mean?%%In%the%end,%I%could%always%talk%to%my%client%about%how%helpful%you%
have%been.%You,%you%see%what%Im%saying?%%
Ron%Waters:%Yeah.%%
Tyron%Ali:%%Okay?%Thank%you,%sir.%%I%appreciate%it.%%
Ron%Waters:%%Aww%man,%you%
Tyron%Ali:%%I%appreciate%it.%%Thank%you.%%
%[Laughter]%%
Ron%Waters:%See%Ron%what%he%want.%[inaudible]%
Tyron%Ali:%%Right.%
Ron%Waters:%%[inaudible]%ourselves%is%that,%you%know,%and%somebody%need%a%job.%
Tyron%Ali:%%Mmhmm%
1:20:16%
Tyron%Ali:%%That%taxi"cab%situation%is%really%uh"%
[Laughter]%%
Ron%Waters:%%I%aint%gonna%deal%with%that.%%I%just,%I%just%have%fun,%man.%%
Tyron%Ali:%%But%see,%the%thing%about%it%is%I%can%always%go%to%the,%to%the%folks%who%employ%me%and%talk%to%
them.%%And%say,%hey%look.%%Heres%a%guy%whos%willing%to%help%you.%%%
Ron%Waters:%%Yeah.%
Tyron%Ali:%%Are%you%willing%to%help%him?%%
Ron%Waters:%%Yeah,%yeah.%%
Tyron%Ali:%%And%because%I%speak%their%language,%its%a%little%bit%easier.%%And,%and%because%I%look%like%them,%
its%easier%for%me%to"%
Ron%Waters:%%Right,%relate"%
Tyron%Ali:%%"have%that%conversation.%%You%know?%%
Ron%Waters:%Yeah.%
Tyron%Ali:%%Because%most%of%the%guys%who%drive%out%from%your%area?%
%
32%
%
LG%
T"58%March%2,%2011%
Ron%Waters:%%Mmhmm%
Tyron%Ali:%%Theyre%actually%Sikhs%from%Punjab.%
Ron%Waters:%%Mmhmm%
Tyron%Ali:%%You%know?%%My,%um"%%One%of%my%colleagues%was%saying%to%me,%that%its%so%helpful%because%Im%
from%a%mixed%background.%%
Ron%Waters:%%Mmhmm%
Tyron%Ali:%%I%grew%up%in%a%black%neighborhood%in%Philadelphia,%went%to%school%in%Philadelphia.%%
Ron%Waters:%%Mmhmm%
Tyron%Ali:%%%How%helpful%it%is%to%be%able%to%relate"%
Ron%Waters:%%Mmhmm%%
Tyron%Ali:%%"to%the%folks%who%are%from%Philadelphia%and%beyond.%%
Ron%Waters:%%Thats%right.%%
Tyron%Ali:%%Because%of%the%experiences%that%Ive%had%traveling%outside%of%the%country%and%that%kinda%thing.%%
Ron%Waters:%%Okay%
Tyron%Ali:%%But%I%saw%your%girl%checking%me%hard,%man.%%
Ron%Waters:%%Who?%Jade?%%
Tyron%Ali:%%Mmhmm%
Ron%Waters:%%Yeah,%thats%why"%
Tryon%Ali:%%This%morning.%%
Ron% Waters:% % Because% I% think% she% started% talking% but% then% after"% % Before% long% she% found% out% that% you%
knew% more% about% the% subject% than% she,% about% budget,% than% she% did.% % You% know.% % I% mean,% shes% in% the%
game.%%And%uh.%%I%think%that%she%probably%[inaudible]%We%havent%either%%[inaudible]%%Im%not%sure%if%shes%
at...I%mean,%she%said%shes%a%good%girl%so%I%dont%know%how%well%she%can%[inaudible]%Because%she%was%out%
there% on% her% own.% % I% think% that% was% the% problem.% % Thats% another% one.% % Another% reason% why% she%%
[inaudible]%%She%just%had%a%baby.%%[inaudible]%%Shes%was%with%Wojak%for%a%while,%they%let%her%go.%%Angela.%%
Angela.%%Thats%her%name.%%
1:22:07%
33%
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LG%
T"58%March%2,%2011%
Tyron%Ali:%%Angela.%%You%know,%a%lot%of%these%folks,%they%dont%have%the%D.C.%experience.%%Thats%number%
one.%%They%dont%have%the%New%York%experience%either.%%So%they%come%being,%um,%students%of%the%folks%
who%wrote%the%book%about%the%subject.%
Ron%Waters:%%Right.%
Tyron%Ali:%%But%they%never%really%had%to%deal%with%the%subject%matter.%%
Ron%Waters:%%Right.%%They%got%theories.%%
Tyron%Ali:%%Youre%right.%%Weve%got%this...weve%actually%financed,%funded"%
Ron%Waters:%%Yeah.%%
Tyron%Ali:%%"millions%of%dollars.%%
Ron%Waters:%%Exactly.%%
1:22:33%
Tyron% Ali:% % You% know% what% I% mean?% % The% other% thing% I% want% to% say% to% you% is% this.% % Right% now,% Parking%
Authority,% they% have% Rendells% people% working.% % Linebarger.% % Then% they% have% something% called% ACS,%
which%is%Academy%Collection%Services.%%And%then%they%have%Michael%Munoz,%which%is%Revenue%Collection%
Bureau% on% Torresdale% Avenue.% % Theres% also% a% small,% uh,%group% that% is% owned% by% the% NCO% group% thats%
doing%some%work%on%the,%on%the%parking%tickets.%%But%the%pieces"%we%dont%want%put%on%the%contract.%%Tell%
Vince% we% just% want% to% ""% we% want% to% be% able% to% service% the% account% as% opposed% to% collecting% because%
different%rules%and%regulations%apply%if%we%do%servicing.%%Like,%Hi.%%Good%afternoon%Mr.%Ali.%%Im%just%calling%
about%your%traffic%ticket%number%XYZ%123%and%we%would%like%to%know%when%youre%going%to%pay%it.%%Please%
call%us%at%this%number.%%In%other%words,%were%doing%the%auto%dialer%piece"%%
Ron%Waters:%%Right%
Tyron% Ali:% % Right?% % Were% not% really% collecting% it.% % Were% just% servicing% it.% % In% other% words,% were,% were%
staying% relevant.% % You% know?% % Whereas,% with% the% other% collection% accounts,% itll% take% forever% to% try% to%
collect% those.% % These,% we% can% give% him% a% per"call% cost,% and% I% can% have% my% client% become% a% platinum%
sponsor%%
Ron%Waters:%%Okay.%
Tyron%Ali:%%""%or%a%gold%sponsor%to%your%campaign.%%%
Tyron%Ali:%%You%know%what%I%mean?%%
Ron%Waters:%%Well,%we%gonna%do%that.%He%said,%he%said,%Ron,%you%want%me%to%meet%him?%%Yep.%Okay.%Give%
me%his%information.%%%
34%
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T"58%March%2,%2011%
Tyron%Ali:%%Its%major%dollars%attached%to%that.%%
Ron%Waters:%%Okay%one%company,%%you%mentioned%two%names.%%I,%I,%I%dont%know"%%
Tyron%Ali:%%ACS%and%Linebarger.%
Ron%Waters:%%Yeah.%
Tyron%Ali:%%Yeah.%%We%know%them.%%
Ron% Waters:% % [inaudible]% closet% route?% % Even% though% theres% [inaudible]% collecting% seventy% percent,%
theres%major%dollars%out%there.%%
Tyron%Ali:%%Mmhmm.%%
Ron%Waters:%%So"%
Tyron%Ali:%%And%like%I%said,%we%dont%even%really%want%the%old%stuff.%%We%want%the%stuff,%like,%they%bill%it.%%
Like,%they,%the%person,%um,%got%the%fine%or%parking%ticket%a%month%ago.%%We%wanna%just%be%able%to%call%and%
say,%or%send%a%letter%and%say,%hey%can%you%please%pay%this?%%
Ron%Waters:%%Mmhmm.%
Tyron%Ali:%%You%know?%%One%of%the%things%that%we%had%proposed.%%When%you%get%a%parking%ticket%is%to%also%
get%a%telephone%number%for%that%person.%%Because%what%it%also%does%is%allows%you%to%pull%from%a%larger%
database,%especially%for%the%politicians,%who%do%campaign%calls%and%polling.%%%
Ron%Waters:%%Right.%Right.%
Tyron%Ali:%%Because%theres%nothing%that%restricts%what%you%can%do%with%that%telephone%number.%%At%least%
theres%no%legislation%in%place%yet"%
Ron%Waters:%%Mmhmm%
Tyron%Ali:%%"because%there%is%no%phone%number%yet.%%You%have%the%Parking%Authority%in%a%way%like%that"%
Tyron%Ali:%%You%see%what%Im%saying?%%Introduce%the%legislation%so%that%they%can%get%their%money%faster.%%
This%is%not%about%collecting.%%This%is%about%collecting%money%more%efficiently.%%
Ron%Waters:%%Mmhmm%
Tyron%Ali:%%Reduce%costs%and,%and,%and%increase%dollars.%%
Ron%Waters:%%One%of%the%things%that%they%want"%%Ill%tell%you%this.%%%
Tyron%Ali:%%Mmhmm%
35%
%
LG%
T"58%March%2,%2011%
Ron% Waters:% [inaudible]% complaining% to% us% about% the% deadline.% That% people% were% paying% their% tickets%
before%the%penalty%kicks%in.%%
Tyron%Ali:%%Yeah.%
Ron% Waters:% % We% were% like,% well% thats% good,% aint% it?% % They% said,% no.% % Not% good.% % Because% they% losing%
money%if%people%pay%like%they%should%pay,%which%is%a%fine.%%You%know,%the%added%penalty%almost%doubles%
the%ticket.%%
Tyron%Ali:%%Right.%%You%remember%that,%that%printout%I"%%I%dont%know%if%I%ever%shared%it%with%you%but%I%think%
I%did.%%
Ron%Waters:%%Yeah%you%did.%%
Tyron%Ali:%%Okay.%We%know%what%the%numbers%are.%%%
Ron%Waters:%%Right.%Right.%%
Tyron%Ali:%%You%know.%%
Ron% Waters:% % Thats% why% I% was% happy% when% I,% when% you% said% that.% % I% told% him,% no,% because% you% said%
theres%a%million%out%there.%%He%couldnt%say%nothing.%%
Tyron%Ali:%%Right.%[Laughter]%%You%cant%say%no.%%Right.%
Ron%Waters:%%I%knew%that.%%
Tyron%Ali:%%Right.%%[Laughter]%%
Ron%Waters:%[inaudible]%%You%know,%I%tell%people%all%the%time.%%Youve%got%people%who%think%vision%is%the%
same%thing%as%discipline.%[inaudible]%passing,%are%stuck%on%the%floor.%[inaudible]%%But%you%cant%sleep%on%
the% floor.% You% gotta% listen% to% the% legislature.% % Because% we% dont% want% these% people% in% the% committee%
meetings%on%the%floor.%%
Tyron%Ali:%%Right.%
Ron% Waters:% % Okay?% % We,% we,% we% we% delegate(?).% % We,% we,% we,% the% commentary% meetings.% % They%
empower%us"%%
Tyron%Ali:%%Mmhmm%
Ron% Waters:% % "with% the% information% we% need% in% the% office% so% that% when% something% comes% up,% we% can%
respond.%%
Tyron%Ali:%%The%one"%%The%one,%uh,%gentleman%was%saying%to%me%last%night.%%Hes%actually%a%senator%from%
the% western% part% of% the% state.% % Not% last% night.% % The% night% before.% % He% said,% you% know% Ty,% you% seem% to%
know%a%whole%lot%about%a%whole%lot.%%
36%
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LG%
T"58%March%2,%2011%
Ron%Waters:%%Yeah,%%its%true.%%[Laughter]%%You%do.%I%know%its%like%a%rare%sort%of%thing.%You%really%do.%Id%be%
like%damn.%%Its%funny,%you%were%always%a%little%bit%%[inaudible].%
[Laughter]%%
Ron%Waters:%[inaudible]%%You%wanna%give%your%information%to%Ashley.%%
Tyron%Ali:%%She%want%my%number.%%I%knew%it.%%I%tried,%I%tried%to%run%away%from%her.%Did%you%see?%
Ron%Waters:%%Yeah,%I%know.%%[Laughter]%She%want%your%card,%your%number.%%
Tyron%Ali:%%Mmhmm.%%She%was%like,%can%I%get%your%email%address?%%I%said,%I%dont%do%email.%%You%know%I%
dont%do%email.%%
Ron%Waters:%%Yeah.%%Well%she%knows%that%you%could%help%her%become%better%at%what%she%do.%%
Tyron%Ali:%%Shes%very%abrasive,%man.%%[Laughter]%%You%know,%as%a%lobbyist,%you%need%to%set%your%opinions%
aside.%%
Ron%Waters:%%Absolutely.%%
Tyron%Ali:%%Nobody%wants%to%hear%that.%%
Ron%Waters:%%Yeah.%%Everythings%about%standing.%%
Tyron%Ali:%%Yes.%%Were%not%playing%chess%on%a%board.%%Were%playing%chess%in%the%street.%%[Laughter]%%You%
gotta%know%what%youre%doing.%%
Ron%Waters:%%Yeah.%%Yeah.%%Thats%right.%%Thats%a%good%point.%%
Tyron%Ali:%%It%is.%%
[pause]%
Ron%Waters:%%Youre%right.%%Thats,%thats%what%you%are.%%A%great%chess%player.%%
Tyron%Ali:%%How%is%that%food%for%you?%%Its%okay?%
Ron%Waters:%%Yeah.%The%cod%"%its%different%man.%%
Tyron%Ali:%%Thats%nice.%%
Ron%Waters:%%They%have%good%food%here.%%%
Tyron%Ali:%%Mmhmm%
Ron%Waters:%%Wow.%%Its%pretty%good.%%[inaudible]%%Because%I%knew%they%had%good%food%at%the%other%one%
because%most%people%go%over%there%to%the%Golden%Sheaf.%%
37%
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T"58%March%2,%2011%
Tyron%Ali:%%Yeah.%%
1:28:58%
Ron%Waters:%%Where%they%have%closed%rooms.%%Oh%yeah.%%The%people%called%again.%%They%said%they%wanted%
to,%wanted%to%reschedule%that%meeting%with%the%uh%voucher%people.%%
Tyron%Ali:%%Who%is%it?%%
Ron%Waters:%%The%people%with%the%vouchers.%%
Tyron%Ali:%%Oh.%%Oh.%%Oh.%%SI"%%Is%that%SIG%thats%doing%this%or%somebody%else?%%
Ron%Waters:%%Uhh.%I%think%its%Student%First.%
Tyron%Ali:%%Do%they%own%that%company?%
Ron%Waters:%%I%dont%know%but%they%might.%
Tyron%Ali:%%They%might.%%Oh%of%course.%%Lots%of%money.%%
Ron%Waters:%%%They%gotta%be%the%same%for%all%the%[inaudible]%%
Tyron%Ali:%%But%see"%%But%see,%well,%SIGs%%the%entity%that%provided%the%money%so%maybe%they%own%Students%
First.% % But% the% interesting% thing% about% this% is% that% we% could% actually% leverage% the% non"profit% about%
education%in%the%schools"%%
Tyron%Ali:%%"and%if%and%when%the%voucher%program%goes%through"%
Tyron%Ali:%%We%can"%%The%only%way%theyre%gonna%get%your%support%is%if%they%provide%support.%
Ron%Waters:%%Thats%right.%%[Laughter]%%Thats%right.%%
Tyron%Ali:%%You%know%what%I%mean?%%Thats%how%it%works.%%
Ron%Waters:%%Im%not%giving%my%name%for%nothing.%%
Tyron%Ali:%%And%thats%not,%thats%not"%%
Ron%Waters:%%I%dont%even%know"%%I%dont%even%know%what%Tony%%got%out%of%it.%
Ron%Waters:%%For%meeting%with%our%board.%%
38%
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T"58%March%2,%2011%
Tyron%Ali:%%The%thing%about%it%is%[inaudible]%with%someone%else%on%Saturday%night,%actually,%because%he%is%
fairly%new%%himself%in%terms%of%being%a%senator.%%We%can%have%conversations%that%simply%are%inappropriate%
for%you%to%have.%%
Tyron%Ali:%%And%we%can%put%them%in%a%corner%and%beat%them%up%as%much%as%we%like%because%they%have%to%
deal%with%us.%%You%know?%%And%then%we%can%help%them%understand%some%things%because%a%good%lobbyist%
does%three%things%for%his%clients%and%he%does%three%things%for%the%folks%who%he%has%relationships%with,%she%
has%relationships%with.%%The%first%thing%is%to%provide%information.%%%
Ron%Waters:%%Correct.%
Tyron%Ali:%%The%second%is%to%be%able%to%provide%the%tools%for%the%comprehension%of%that%information.%%%
Ron%Waters:%%Right.%%
Tyron%Ali:%%And%then,%the%third%thing%is%to%be%able%to%find%out"%
Tyron%Ali:%%"and,%to%some%extent,%be%able%to,%to%look%at%the%moving%parts%around%that%issue%and%put%them%
in%order.%%%
Ron%Waters:%%Mmhmm.%%
Tyron%Ali:%%And%the%order%of%those%things,%they%fall%into%these%categories.%%Critical%priorities,%priorities%and%
things%that%are%important.%%%
Ron%Waters:%%Mmm%
Tyron%Ali:%%And,%and%%you%must%be%savvy%and%experienced%enough%to%bring%your%business%acumen%to%the%
legislative%process%because%if%you%can%do%those%two%things"%%I%mean,%not%only%are%you%going%to%successful%,%
you%become%a%resounding%success.%%Take%for%example,%Vince%Fumo.%%A%lawyer%and%a%Wharton%MBA%grad.%%
Ron%Waters:%%Mmhmm.%%Yeah.%%
Tyron%Ali:%%You%know?%%Those,%those%are%the%kinds%of%guys%who%are%able%to%take%the%lock%and%the%key%and%
put%those%two%together.%%You%know?%%Its%the%car%and%the%steering%wheel.%%%
Ron%Waters:%%Right.%%Right.%%
Tyron%Ali:%%And%based%on%my%experience,%my%training,%my%academic%background"%%legal%and%finance"%%Im%
in%a%unique%position%because%most%people%have%not%had%my%kind%of%experience.%%%
Tyron%Ali:%%Not%at%thirty"seven%years%old.%%You%know?%%
39%
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T"58%March%2,%2011%
Ron%Waters:%%I%think%youre%a%little%bit%ahead%of%yourself.%%
Tyron%Ali:%%I%hope%not.%[Laughter]%%
Ron%Waters:%%You%have,%um"%%You%have,%um,%a%good%sense%of%discipline%and,%you%know,%the%knowledge%to%
walk%around%here%[inaudible]%%Even%as%we%were%driving%%[inaudible]%%he%was%telling%me,%get%the%attention%
of%the%man.%%[inaudible]%%Get%the%man.%Not%%[inaudible]%%but%get%the%man%on%that%floor.%%%
Tyron%Ali:%%Fumo,%guys%like%DeWeese,%are%sort%of%looked%on%as%living%legends%because%those%are%the%kind%
of%folks%that%generations%to%come%will%be%speaking%about%them%and%that%is"%%Youre%in%that%category%to%
some%extent%too%because%look%at%all%the%things%that%youve%done.%%Nobody%has%fought%for%the%ex"offender%
issue%like%you%and%everybody%knows%that.%%
1:33:02%
Ron% Waters:% % You% know% today"% % Let% me% tell% you% a% little% something% that% happened% today.% % We% got% an%
African% American% Parliamentarian,% Rezden% Moore.% % The% first% African% American% Parliamentarian% in% the%
history%of%the%state.%%When%the%democrats%came%into%majority,%he%wasnt%a%parliamentarian.%%He%was%just%
a%[inaudible].%%%
Tyron%Ali:%%Mmhmm.%
Ron% Waters:% % Then% the% other% guy% who% had% been% a% parliamentarian% with% [inaudible]% % So% when% we% took%
over% the% house.% % The% other% day,% % um% Daniel% Gliman(?)% [inaudible]% our% party% but% you% know,% hard% times%
and"%%He%said%uh%weve%gotta%do%something%else%to%compete.%%I%said%we%gonna%get%ready%for%[inaudible]%
and%so%we%did%it.%%Now%what%the%Republicans%did%not%want%was%to%get%rid%of%taxes%[inaudible]%so%sorry.%%
Didnt% keep% my% seat.% % They% wanted% me% to% vollunteer% % [inaudible]% counsel% on% advisory.% [inaudible]% % He%
stayed%there%for%two%terms.%%But%doing%that%position%meant%that%he%was%on%the%payroll%[inaudible]%at%the%
Republicans%party%for"%%So%now%the%Republicans%that%went%over"%%They%said,%it%was%just%gonna%get%worse.%%
Rezden%should%stay%here.%%But%Rezden%hadnt%%shown%up%on%the%stage.%%I%wanted%to"%%I%went%to%our%leader%
and% said,% look% Rezden.% % You% know.% % But% he% said,% oh% but% theres% a% problem.% % We% gotta% get% the% majority%
leader% and% the% speaker% to% sign% off% on% it.% % I% said% okay.% % So% I% went% to% the% majority% leader.% % The% majority%
leader% was% like,% oh% yeah,% well.% % You% know?% % And% I% knew% what% had% happened.% % I% already% what% had%
happened%because%the%two%of%them%had%already%told%us.%%He%didnt%care.%%He%had%no%clue.%%He%didnt%like%
Rezden% so% he% went% pretending% that% he% was% the% spokesperson% for% the% Black% Caucus.% % Then% the% Black%
Caucus% was% upset% with% Rezden% Moore% and% said,% we% dont% care% what% you% do.% % He% had% the% audacity% to%
come%back%and%tell%me%because%he%knew%I%was%gonna%find%out%anyway.%%
Tyron%Ali:%%Mmhmm%
Ron%Waters:%%So%he%tried%to%come%back%and%like%cushion%it%a%little%bit%and%tell%me,%yeah,%yeah,%we%dont%
like%Rezden%Moore,%man.%%We%dont%like%what%he%did%with%Jake%when%Jake%ran%for%leadership%a%couple%of%
terms%ago.%%Like"%%But%you,%maybe%you%and%I%could"%%But%dont%speak%with%me.%%Thats%okay.%I%went%to%a%
[inaudible]%headed%back%up.%%I%went%to%talk%to%two%of%them.%%He%said,%well%I%thought%yall%were%upset%with%
him.%%I%said,%were%not%upset%with%him.%%He%said,%thats%what%I%heard.%%I%said,%you%didnt%hear%it%from%me.%%
%
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T"58%March%2,%2011%
He%said,%well%yall%not%on%the%budget,%right?%%Yall%didnt%have%your%elections.%%I%said,%yes%we%did.%%We%had%
our%elections.%%And%Im%the%chair.%Theres%a%protocol.%%And%we%uh"%%We%talked%to%all%the%board%and%they%
said,% we% have% Rezden% too.% % They% said,% we% like% Rezden.% % They% all% went% up% there% individually% talk% to%
Turzai(?)% with% Rezden.% % Respect% our% protocol.% % Ron% Waters,% the% chair.% % So% today% Ive% been% % [inaudible]%%
Rezden% called% me.% % He% said,% Ron.% % Whats% up% man?% % You% know.% % Im% still% here.% % You% know.% % Now% the%
conversation%I%has%with%Turzai%about%was%about%a%month%ago.%%%
Tyron%Ali:%%Mmhmm%
Ron%Waters:%%Nothing%happened.%%So%now%Im%like"%%Now%Im%curious.%%He%said,%yeah%I%talked%to%Billy%the%
other%day%and%we%tried%to%work%on%it.%%I%said,%listen.%%Hold%on.%%Hold%on.%First%of%all,%Bill%is%full%of%shit.%%I%said,%
hes"%%I%didnt%wanna%say,%let%him%know%that%he%was%the%problem.%%But%I%said,%there%was%a%problem%in%our%
caucus.%%There%was%a%member%who%went%out%of%order%and%made%it%look%like%we%had%a%problem%with%you%
but% we% dont.% % I% said,% but% Im% gonna% fix% this% shit% today.% % So% I% went% in% there% to% talk% to% Dermody% again.%%
Dermody%was%like,%well%I%dont%know,%man.%%What,%what%if%he%could%[inaudible]%The%letters%are%on%Turzais%
desk%so%he%wont%release%it.%%I%said,%but%this%is%a%problem.%%What%are%we%gonna%do?%%He%said,%alright,%Ill%tell%
you%what.%%Lets%go%up%there%and%talk%to%the%speaker.%%So%we%go%up%there%and%the%speaker%will%talk%to%him.%%
He%said,%yeah%Ill%talk%to%him.%%I%said,%speaker%you%know%um"%%What%about%the%arrangement%making%Rezden%
the%[inaudible],%right?%%He%said,%yeah,%you%know,%yeah,%you%know%what.%%I%dont%know%what%happened.%%I%
said,% well% it% didnt% happen% and% Im% trying% to% find% out% why% it% didnt% happen% because% remember% that%
everything%around%this%podium%falls%under%the%right%wing.%
Tyron%Ali:%%Mmhmm.%
Ron%Waters:%%I%said,%I%aint%saying%thats%wrong"%
Tyron%Ali:%%Right.%
Ron%Waters:%%"but%it%doesnt%look%like%Pennsylvania.%%%
Tyron%Ali:%%Right.%%
Ron%Waters:%%Pennsylvanias%a%blue%state.%%%
Ron%Waters:%%But%one%look%at%this%background%up%here%and%its,%its%opposite.%%Opposite.%%What%do%you%call%
that?%[inaudible]%but%look%at%the%podium%[inaudible]%a%reasonable%amount%of%constituents%up%here.%%They%
look% up% here% and% see% everybody% [inaudible]% in% a,% in% their% positions% up% there.% % It% wont% look% like%
Pennsylvania.%%He%said,%Ill%tell%you%what.%%[inaudible]%not%if%it%goes%back%down.%%Before%I%could%get%you%my%
chair,% theres% a% guide% coming% on% Tuesday.% % A% tour% guide.% % He% made% me% call% him% and% I% said,% Rez,% if% you%
gonna%be%[inaudible]%this%guy%right%here%[inaudible].%%I%thought%it%was%a%member.%%I%thought%it%was%a%new%
member,%right?%%Tall%white%guy.%%I%said,%look%[inaudible].%
Tyron%Ali:%%Christian%Callahan.%%
41%
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T"58%March%2,%2011%
Ron%Waters:%%You%know%who%he%is?%
Tyron%Ali:%%Hes%chief%of%staff%to%the%majority%leader.%
Ron%Waters:%%Thats%right.%%Hes%the%chief%of%staff.%%He%said,%were%gonna%take%care%of%this,%today.%%Today.%%I%
said,%oh%really?%%He%said%[inaudible]%%I%said,%and%what%did%you"%%What%did%you%do?%%He%said%he%was%there%
proposing%it.%%I%said,%okay.%[inaudible]%because%I%dont%wanna%get%[inaudible]%%We%gonna%take%care%of%it.%%
He%said,%I%guarantee%you.%%We%gonna%take%care%of%that%there.%%So%I%go%um"%%They%have%a%recess.%%After%the%
recess%is%over,%um,%I%get%a%tap%on%my%shoulder.%%I%turn%around%and%look%and%its%Turzai,%right?%%He%said,%Mr.%
Chair,%Mr.%Chair.%%He%said,%when%you%get%a%minute,%when%you%get%a%minute"%%I%said,%I%got%a%minute%now.%%
Um.%%He%showed%me%the%sheet.%%See?%%I%signed%it.%%I%signed%it.%%I%signed%it%this%week.%%I%signed%it.%%Now%all%
yall% gotta% do% is% um% um% get% Dermody% to% sign% it.% % And,% and,% and,% and% itll% be% over% with.% % And% I% knew%
Dermody%was%gonna%sign%it,%right?%%So%Im%like,%okay.%%He%said"%%I%said,%let%me%tell%you%something.%%I%said,%
you%know,%this%is%easily%completed.%%He%said,%yeah,%youre%right.%%He%said,%you%know.%%Theres%a%lot%of%stuff%
going%on.%%I%said,%I%know.%Its%a%lot%going%on%for%me%too.%%I%understand%that%but%still,%I%want%to%thank%you%
because%you%said%you%were%gonna%do%it%about%a%month%ago.%%I%said,%but%at%least%its%done%now%and%I%want%
to%thank%you.%%I%tried%to%be%diplomatic%as%I%could.%
Tyron%Ali:%%Of%course.%%
Ron%Waters:%%I%said,%and%I%thank%you%for,%for,%for%doing%that.%%He%said,%Im%going%right%down%there,%right%
now,%and%Im%gonna%give%this%to%Dermody.%%He%wanted%me%to%watch%him.%
1:40:11%
Tyron%Ali:%%You%should%have.%%
Ron%Waters:%%I%did!%I%watched%him%go%right%down%there%and%do%what%he"%%Now,%he%aint%gotta%do%that.%%You%
know,%these%guys%cold.%They%play%hardball,%man.%%You%know.%%Now,%they,%they%dont%have%to%do%that.%%They%
got%way%more%in%the%booths%than%we%got.%%Top%senate%and%the%Governors%office.%%But%the%big%fact,%that%
not%only%did%I%ruffle%his%feather%and%make,%and%get%him%to%do%it,%and%the%way%I%handled%it.%%He%came%back%
to%show%me%the%piece%of%paper.%%I%signed%it.%%See?%%I%signed%it.%%Okay?%%Im%gonna%go%right%there%and"%%The%
speaker%signed%it.%%And%give%it%to"%%It%that%bipartisan%commissions.%%He%had%four%signatures%on%there.%%He%
only%needed%one%more.%%I%going%down%there%to%sign%this.%%Mr.%Dermody,%will%you%sign%this?%%Thank%you.%%He%
signs%it.%%Rezden%calls%me%up.%%Thank%you.%%Whatever%you%say.%[Laughter]%%
Tyron%Ali:%%Wow%
Ron%Waters:%%And%then%guess%what%happens%after%that?%%Now,%the%speaker%calls%me%up%to%the%podium.%
Tyron%Ali:%%Mmhmm.%
Ron%Waters:%%He%said,%um"%%He%said,%everything%okay%now?%%I%said,%I%want%to%thank%you.%%I%said,%you%a%man%
of%swift%actions%and%I%really%appreciate%that.%%He%said"%%He%start%smiling%and%I%never%see%this%guy%smile.%%He%
starts%smiling%at%me.%%He%said,%youre%right.%%Goodnight.%%
42%
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T"58%March%2,%2011%
Tyron%Ali:%%Thats%the%key.%%Swift%action.%
Tyron%Ali:%%Decisiveness.%%
Ron% Waters:% % Precisely.% % So,% you% know.% % And% now% that% was% good% for% our% leadership% because% Rezden%
Moore,%they%didnt%want"%%They%couldnt%let%him%go%but%they%couldnt"%%Since%the%chief%clerk%wasnt%paying%
the%salary,%he%came%out%of%the%democratic%caucus%and"%%That%makes%over%a%grand%a%year.%%So%weve%been%
paying% him% to% keep% him% in% a,% in% a% room,% out% of% sight.% % But% it% came% off% payroll.% % I% did% something% they%
couldnt% even% do.% % Okay?% % So% I% know% that% I% did,% like"% % Thats"% % Then% one% of% the% guys% um% who% work% for%
leadership%um"%%When%I%was%up%there,%I%said%Dermody%its%done,%huh?%%He%said%yeah,%yeah.%%A%guy%come%
up%to%me"%%He%said,%Mr.%Chair.%%He%said,%the%powerful%chair,%Ron%Waters,%got%it%done.%%[inaudible]%%And%the%
speaker%heard%him.%%I%mean,%not%the%speaker%but%the%major"%%He%said%right%to%the%leader.%%He%said,%you%got%
it%done.%%Powerful%chair.%%I%dont%know%what%that"%%That%in%itself%is%a%reason%to%be%proud%but%I%feel%it%as%
though%I%must%have%some%influence.%[inaudible]%%He%said,%Ron,%you%dont%realize%that%these%people%respect%
you.%
Tyron%Ali:%%They%do.%%
Ron%Waters:%%They%trust%you.%
1:42:36%
Tyron%Ali:%%I%can%tell%you%that%for%a%fact.%%You%have%a%tremendous%amount%of%respect.%%
Ron%Waters:%%Yeah.%
Tyron%Ali:%%The,%the%interesting"%%You%know,%one%of%the%things%that%[inaudible]%I%can%tell%you%this%because%
weve%known%each%other%for%a%long%time.%%The%spirit%with%which%you%come%to%the%table%allows%people%to%
treat%you%well.%%
Ron%Waters:%%Yeah.%
Tyron%Ali:%%And,%and%that%is%a%difficult%thing%sometimes%to%accomplish.%%You%know,%whether%they%be%D%or%R.%%%
Ron%Waters:%%Yeah.%
Tyron%Ali:%%You%know,%its,%its%sort%of%like%being%Christ,%man,%because%at,%at%some%level%of%the%game,%youre%
not%gonna%be%well"treated%by%your%own%people.%%
Ron%Waters:%%Oh.%%Oh.%%Oh%yeah.%%
Tyron%Ali:%%But%folks%on%the%peripheral,%folks%outside,%folks%who%are%familiar%with%your%character.%%Theyre%
gonna%come%to%you,%praise%to%you,%give%you%favor%beyond%what%is%going%to%be%considered%normal.%%
Ron%Waters:%%Yeah.%%I%know%my%own%people.%%They"%%These%guys,%you%know,%[inaudible]%%
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T"58%March%2,%2011%
Tyron%Ali:%%Whats%up%with%Rosita,%man?%
Ron%Waters:%%I%dont%know.%
Tyron%Ali:%%What,%what%is%going%on%with%her?%%Can%I%tell%you%something?%
Ron%Waters:%%She%acting%[inaudible]%
Tyron%Ali:%%Listen,%listen%to%me,%okay?%%Im%telling%you%this%because%Im%gonna,%Im%gonna%be%patient%but%
only%for%so%much%longer.%%
Tyron%Ali:%%One%of%my%boys%call%her,%right?%%Im%trying%to%get%something%done%and%they%call%me%up%and%ask%
me%like,%Ty.%%Look,%man,%if%we%put%yall%in%a%situation%where%yall%can%represent%the%guy%whos%bringing%in%
the%gold%to%be%sold%at%the%casino,%like%gold%chains,%diamonds"%%That%kind%of%stuff.%%You%know,%can%we%count%
on%you?%%I%said,%well,%well,%how%you%gonna%count%on%me%when%you%didnt%give%me%nothing?%
Tyron%Ali:%%Because%I%can%have%that%conversation%with%them.%%Were%friends.%%He%says,%man%uh"%%Do%you%
know%the%chair?%%I%said%I%know%the%chair.%%He%said,%um"%%Do%you%know%her%well?%%I%said,%yeah,%Im%in%her%
district.%%What%do%you%mean%if%I%know%her%well?%%So%were%talking%and%talking%and%then%I%give%them%her%
number%and%he%calls%her.%%And%I%told%her%she%was%going%to%call.%%He%was%going%to%call.%%
Tyron%Ali:%%So%she%did%not%take%the%phone%call%for%whatever%reason.%%%So%we%were%going%out%to%dinner%and%
uh,%with%a%couple%of%folks%and%I%invited%her.%%I%went%to%her%office%myself%and%I%said,%you%know,%Rosita,%I%
need%to%talk%to%you%about%something,%something%that%is%very%important,%not%just%for%me%but%its%going%to%
be%very%important%to%you.%%And%she%said,%oh%no%problem.%%You%know,%just%let%me%know.%%I%said,%Im%gonna%
call%you.%%Im%gonna%call%you.%%Um,%please%pick%up%the%phone%because%Im%not%calling%you%to%say%hi.%%
Tyron%Ali:%%And%uh"%%We%got%on,%on,%on,%uh"%%We,%we%scheduled%something.%%And%then,%um,%for%whatever%
reason,%uh,%she%did%not,%uh,%accept%the%confirmation%call.%%So%I%called%her%office%yesterday.%%I%said,%Kendall,%
what,%whats%going%on?%%Because%heres%the%thing.%%We%have%enough%support%on%the%Republican%side%that%
we%dont%need%to%talk%to%Democrats.%%
Ron%Waters:%%Thats%true.%%
Tyron%Ali:%%Okay?%%Let%me%put%it%out%here%for%you%because%Im%a%very%nice%person%until%I%start%becoming%
aggravated.%%
44%
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T"58%March%2,%2011%
Tyron%Ali:%%And%now%Im%being%aggravated%because%youre%making%me%look%like%a%fool.%
Ron%Waters:%%She%has%[inaudible]%fifteen%votes%[inaudible]%in%any%committee.%%Alright?%%You%dont%have%to%
talk%to%her.%%And%they%got%this%one.%
Tyron%Ali:%%I%dont.%%Im%trying%to%be%respectful,%Ron.%
Ron%Waters:%%I%know.%%I%know.%%%
Tyron%Ali:%%You%know%what%I%mean?%%Besides%that,%I%told%her.%%I%said,%Rosita,%we%picked%you.%%Im%in%your%
district.% You% know% what% I% mean?% % Dont% make% me% start% acting% up% because% we% act% up% in% a% very% specific%
way.%%
Ron%Waters:%%You%cant"%%Listen.%%I%dont%know%if%you%dont%know%her%or%anything"%
Female%Waitress:%%That%chicken%is%in%the%same%position.%
Ron%Waters:%%Huh?%
Female%Waitress:%%That%chicken%is%in%the%same%position.%%
[Laughter]%
Female%Waitress:%%Makes%me%feel%like%yall%dont%even%like%it.%%
Ron%Waters:%%Oh%Ive%been%eating%mine.%%
Tyron%Ali:%%Me%too.%%He,%he,%hes%been%eating"%
Rom%Waters:%%I,%I,%I%want%mine%to%take%with%me.%%
Female%Waitress:%%You%wanna%take%it?%%Okay.%%I%can%wrap%it%up%for%you.%%No%problem.%%%
Tyron%Ali:%%We%never%made%it%up%there.%%
Ron%Waters:%%Because%Im%used%to%having"%%What%I%pull%sometimes%[inaudible]%
1:46:38%
Tyron%Ali:%%Whats%your%relationship%with%her.%%%
Ron%Waters:%%Rosita?%%There%is%no%relationship%to%anybody%that%trusts%her.%%
Tyron%Ali:%%Oh%okay.%%
Ron%Waters:%%The%only%people%who%she%tries%to%bend%over%backwards%to%work%with%are%the%white%people.%%
They%all%white.%%They"%%She,%she,%she"%%%
45%
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T"58%March%2,%2011%
Tyron%Ali:%%You%can%leverage%a%relationship%but%see,%this%is%one%of%those%things%where%I%dont%want"%%I%only%
want%my%folks%involved.%%And%I"%
Ron%Waters:%%No.%
Tyron%Ali:%%You,%you%see%what%Im%saying?%%Our%folks%involved.%%
Ron%Waters:%%I%could,%I%could%talk%to%her.%%I%could"%%I%mean,%we%could,%we%could%sit%down%with%her.%
Tyron% Ali:% % You,% you% know% what?% % The% next% time% we% have% dinner,% Ill% call% you% like% three% or% four% days%
before"%
Ron%Waters:%%Yeah.%%Lets%do%that.%%
Tyron%Ali:%%"and%bring%her%with%you.%%
Ron%Waters:%%Yeah.%%Sit%down%and"%
Tyron%Ali:%%You%know%what%I%mean?%%Sit%down%and%just%rap.%%
Ron%Waters:%%Sit%her%down.%%Because%shes%one%of%those%very,%extremely%complicated"%%You%dont%know%
where%her%head%is.%%I%was%up%in,%um,%in,%um,%what%is%that,%I%guess%thats%the%East%Falls%section%and%they%
opened%up%a%new%ShopRite%up%there.%%
Tyron%Ali:%%Mmhmm.%%Jeff%Brown%and%them?%%
Ron%Waters:%%Yeah.%%He%came%there%and"%%%
Tyron%Ali:%%What%a%nice%guy,%man.%
Ron%Waters:%%Beautiful%guy.%
Tyron%Ali:%%Nice%guy.%%
Ron% Waters:% % I% mean,% this,% this% guys% unreal,% man.% % You,% you,% you% know.% % For% him% to% be% a% successful%
business%person%like%he%is%and%to%still,%to%keep%that%local%cause%very"%
Tyron%Ali:%%Thats%the%key.%%
Ron%Waters:%%Hes,%hes%deep.%%Hes%a,%hes%a%very%nice%guy.%%Hell%break%his%neck%to%speak%to%you.%%You%
know.%%He%wanted%me%to%speak%at%the%event.%%
Tyron%Ali:%%Mmhmm.%
Ron%Waters:%%He%said,%you%know,%we%got%a%lot%of%representatives%here%but%we%got%the%Chair%of%the%Black%
Caucus%here.%%I%think%he%could%speak%for%everybody%and%Im%gonna%call%Ron%Waters%up.%%So%I%spoke%about%
my%experience%in%that%area%and%stuff%he%does%for%[inaudible].%%She%got%out%of%her%chair%and%went%to%the%
back.%%And%another%guy%named%Mike%Basher%who%was%Jeff%Browns,%like,%sidekick"%
46%
%
LG%
T"58%March%2,%2011%
Ron%Waters:%%Told%him%off%%[Laughter]%about,%I%want%to%speak.%%Mike%totally%handled%it.%%He%said,%man%I%
gotta%talk%to%Rosita.%She%jumped%up%and%jumped%all%over%me%about%how%she%want%to%speak.%%I%said,%Mike,%
let%me%tell%you%something.%%I%know%her.%
Tyron%Ali:%%Mmhmm.%
Ron%Waters:%%You%let%that%kinda%stuff%bother%you%and%youre,%youre%fighting%a%losing%cause.%%There%is%no%
winning.%%Theres%no%win%there.%%Shes%just"%%She%talks%very,%like%intelligent.%%I%think%she%studies.%%I%think%she%
has%information%but%she%has%no%common%sense%to,%to%go%with%it.%%Hers%is%all%theory,%technol"%tech"%%um,%
technical% stuff.% % So% she% reads% it.% % So% she% memorizes% it.% % But% when% it% comes% down% to% how% to% work% with%
other%people,%she%doesnt%have%that%ability%man.%
Tyron%Ali:%%See%we%could%always%make%the%phone%call%to%one%of%my%boys%in%the%leadership%and,%and%lean%
on%it%that%way%but%I%would%rather%not.%%
Ron%Waters:%%Dont%do%that.%
Tyron%Ali:%%You%know?%
Ron%Waters:%%That%would%only%cause%a%fight%because%shes%very%arrogant.%%And%thats%why%I%got"%%Thats%
what%got%her%in%trouble%before%with%leadership.%%Now%she%might%respect%Dermody.%%She%might.%%But%she%
got%into%this%thing%where%she%wasnt%giving%Bill%DeWeese%any%respect,%wasnt%giving%Dwight%any%respect.%%
And%part%of%it"%%
Tyron%Ali:%%Thats%why%they%made%her%suffer%for%so%long.%%
Ron%Waters:%%Oh%yeah,%yeah.%%They%came%after%her.%%
Tyron%Ali:%%Were%nice%guys,%man.%%Were%just%trying%to%talk%to%you.%%Thats%all.%%You%know?%
Ron%Waters:%%I%dont%know.%%I%got%along%with%all%of%those%guys.%%It%was%a%fight%that%she%started.%%At%least%she%
didnt%did%anything%wrong%so"%
Tyron%Ali:%%Well,%maybe%you%could%talk%to%her.%%
Ron%Waters:%%Ill,%Ill%try%but%right%now%the%[inaudible]%you%got%going%is%the%reservation%on%the%other%side.%%
Tyron%Ali:%%[Laughter]%I%know.%%
Ron%Waters:%%You%got%him%on%her%committee.%%Oh%that%changes%[inaudible]%because%nobody%else%will%run%
with%him.%
Tyron%Ali:%%Okay.%
Ron%Waters:%%You%know?%%Because%he%has%such%sad%attendance"%
47%
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LG%
T"58%March%2,%2011%
Tyron%Ali:%%Okay.%
Ron%Waters:%%"and%a%bad%voting%record.%%You%want%to%have%a%solid%footman.%%You%know?%%Somebody%who%
[inaudible]%and%make%sure%you%won.%%In%the%last%term,%almost%every%committee%we%won%they%were%trying%
to%get%him%off%of%it.%%Nobody%wanted%him.%
Tyron%Ali:%%Mmm.%
Ron%Waters:%%Thats%another%one%that%[inaudible].%%Its%extremely%hard%but%he%is%who%he%is.%%So%we%gonna"%%
So,%so"%%Theres%a%couple%of%things%that%I%would%like%to%see%us%do.%%
Tyron%Ali:%%Okay.%%
Ron%Waters:%%One%is%create%this%PAC%because%that%is%really%going%to%empower%the%Black%Caucus.%
Tyron%Ali:%%Okay.%
Ron%Waters:%%And%create%this,%this%non"profit%dealing%with%the,%um,%the%issues%that%we,%uh,%some%of%the%
issues%that%we%want%to%champion.%%%
Tyron%Ali:%%Okay.%%
Ron% Waters:% % That% generates% some% financial% support% in% dollars% because% these% issues% are% still% in% an%
uncertainty.%%But%it%is%a%problem"%
Tyron%Ali:%%Mmhmm.%
Ron%Waters:%%"and%a%crime%that%the,%the%business%is%growing%[inaudible].%%People%got%diabetes%and%tying%it%
to%those,%those%dialysis%centers%weve%got%going%down.%%It%used%to%be%eight%hours%that%people%had%to%go%
through%treatment.%%Yeah.%
Tyron%Ali:%%Three%hours%now.%
Ron%Waters:%%And%theyre%still%done%for%the%rest%of%the%day.%
Tyron%Ali:%%Uh"huh.%%Twice%or%three%times%a%week.%%
Ron%Waters:%%Three%times%a%week%and%theyre%done.%%I%went%and%took%a%tour%of%one%out%in%Cobbs%Creek%
Parkway.%%I%was%with%my%boy%over%there,%Dr.%um"%%Who%was%I%with?%%Oh%Dr.%Percy.%%He%was%out%[inaudible]%
that%week.%%He%said%theyre%getting%ready"%%He%does%some%research%and%theyre%getting%ready%to%open%up%
thirty%of%them%in%the%Delaware%Valley.%%Or%thirty%more.%%Yeah,%I%already%got%them%all%over,%he%said,%but%
theyre%getting%ready%for%more.%%Now%theyre%doing%shift"work.%%Theyre%doing%three%shifts%a%day.%%Three%
shifts% a% day.% % Pull% them% out% and% the% person% would% be%there% for% four% hours.% % Eight% to% twelve,% twelve% to%
four,%and%probably%four%to%eight.%%Or%whatever%theyre%doing.%%Maybe%six%to%ten.%%Whatever%it%is.%%They%got%
three%shifts%and%every%chair%is%filled%and%they%get%written%off.%%Obviously%theres%something%wrong%with%
failure,%something%wrong%around%ignorance.%%Something%is%wrong%that%is%contributing%to%very%expensive%
medical%bills.%%%
48%
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LG%
T"58%March%2,%2011%
Tyron%Ali:%%It%is?%
Ron%Waters:%[inaudible]%%
Ron%Waters:%%This%kind%of%stuff%has%to%be%addressed.%%Thats%is,%is"%%Its%life%changing.%%You%cant%go%on%with%
your%life%like%you%could%before%if%youve%got%three%days%out%of%the%week,%youve%got%to%go%to%treatment.%%
You%cant%work%now%because%how%many%jobs%can%you%go%to%work%if%youve%got%to%be%off%three%days%out%of%
the%week?%
Tyron%Ali:%%I%understand%that"%%I%heard%you%mention%this%guys%name%more%than%once.%%And%I,%I"%%This%is,%this%
is%our%position%on%this.%%Going"%%Let%me%give%you%an%example.%%So%they%open%up,%you%know,%thirty%of%these%
centers.%
Tyron%Ali:%%So%we%go%and%we%say,%hey.%%Um.%%Youre%in%our%district%so%whats%going%on?%%
Tyron% Ali:% % That% is% short"sightedness.% % What% makes% sense% is% you% look% at% how% many% new% facilities% get%
opened"%
Tyron% Ali:% % "and% whether% no% new% facilities% get% opened.% % It% becomes% irrelevant% because% the% folks% were%
going%to%talk%to%other%people%that%manufacture%syringes,%the%people%who%manufacture%the%actual%dialysis%
equipment.%
Tyron%Ali:%%You%see%what%Im%saying?%%The%people%who%actually,%uh,%manufacture%the%drug.%
Tyron% Ali:% % This% is% how% you% expand% your% donor% base.% % You"% % And% that% is% the% easier% way% as% opposed% to%
visiting% third% assignments.% % Champion% one% thing% and% I% think% you% do% it% so"% % Excuse% me.% % So% well.% % Ex"
offenders.%%
Tyron%Ali:%%You%know?%%I%tried%to"%%See,%weve%gotta%get%you%to%that%place%where%we%can%make%two%or%three%
phone%calls%and%raise%twenty"five%thousand%dollars%without%having%to%fund%raise%because%fund%raisers%are%
a%waste%of%time.%
Ron%Waters:%%Okay.%
49%
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LG%
T"58%March%2,%2011%
Tyron%Ali:%%Theyre%a%waste%of%time.%%
Ron%Waters:%%Okay.%%
1:54:33%
Tyron%Ali:%%If%we%set%up%that%non"profit%organization,%were%gonna%be%right%where%we%need%to%be.%%We%set%
up%the%non"profit%organization%in%like%the%next%thirty%days.%%Right?%%We%do%the%PAC%thirty%days%from%that.%%%
Ron%Waters:%%Alright.%%
Tyron%Ali:%%Who%will%you%name%the%chairman?%
Ron%Waters:%%Oh.%%We,%well%be%figuring%that%out.%%
Tyron%Ali:%%Im%obvious.%%I%cant%chair%and%I%cant%be%secretary.%
Ron%Waters:%%Well%have%to%figure%that%out.%
Tyron%Ali:%%Who%can%you%trust?%%
Ron%Waters:%%Uh.%%Theres%some%folks.%%I"%%It%would%have%to%be"%%Because%Im%gonna%tell%you"%%
Tyron%Ali:%%In%the%Caucus?%%
Ron%Waters:%%Well%the%PAC%would%have%to%be"%
Tyron%Ali:%%It%would%have%to%be%some"%%You%would%need%at%least%two%of%the%folks%from%caucus.%%How%about%
Louise,%man?%%
Ron%Waters:%%What%about%her?%%
Tyron%Ali:%%You%think%she%would%be%like%secretary?%%
Ron%Waters:%%What,%of%the%PAC?%
Tyron%Ali:%%Yes.%%Or%the%non"profit.%%Either%one.%%
Ron%Waters:%%Oh,%sure.%%I%think%the%non"profit.%%
Tyron%Ali:%%Okay.%%%
Ron%Waters:%%Yeah.%%%
Tyron%Ali:%%You%want%her"%
Ron%Waters:%%Shes,%shes%a%good"%%I%mean,%were%good%friends%and%all%so.%%
Tyron%Ali:%%I%know.%%Shes%good%people%too.%%Ive%known%her%for%a%%long%time.%%
50%
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LG%
T"58%March%2,%2011%
Ron%Waters:%%But%you,%you%know%what.%%We%got,%we%got%people%out%there"%%We%gotta%figure%out%who%we%
can%trust%because%the%PAC"%%The%PAC%has%to%also%be%a%creation%that%the%current%Chair%established.%%But%I%
dont%never%want%to%be,%%if,%%if%Im%Chair%or%not"%
Tyron%Ali:%%Mmhmm.%
Ron%Waters:%%Not%be%able%to%have%say"so.%
Tyron% Ali:% % Of% course.% % And% you% tie% that,% you% tie% it"% % The% way% that% you% tie% it% is% you% tie% it% to% the% bank%
account.%%
Tyron%Ali:%%Because%what%we%would%do%is%wed%set%it%up%in%such%a%way,%um,%that%you%would%require%dual%
signatures%for%dispersal.%%%
Ron%Waters:%%Right.%%Right.%
Tyron%Ali:%%Its%a%wrap.%
Ron%Waters:%%Right.%%Right.%%%
Tyron%Ali:%%And%Ill%handle%that%for%you.%%It%aint%no%big%thing,%you%know?%%But%I%think%once"%%And%you%know%
the%other%thing%is,%when,%when%folks%come%and%talk%to%you%about"%%See,%Ill%tell%you%something.%%Theres%a%
huge% difference% between% building% a% house,% knowing% where% the% rooms% are% located% and% understanding%
their%use.%
Tyron%Ali:%%Folks%might%tell%you,%well,%you%know,%theyre%building%thirty%new%dialysis%centers.%%What%does%
that% mean% to% you?% % Because% at% that% point,% theyre% wasting% your% time.% % You% know,% come% to% you% with%
enough%respect%to%understand%how%valuable%your%time%is.%%You%know,%when%we%sit%down%and%talk.%%You%
know%I%love%you%like%a%brother.%%But%this%is"%%We%have%to%get%some%things%accomplished.%%%
Tyron%Ali:%%So%that%we%can%live%like%brothers.%%%
Ron%Waters:%%Yeah.%%Yeah.%%Yeah.%%%
[Laughter]%
Tyron%Ali:%%You%know%what%I%mean?%%%
Ron%Waters:%%Yeah.%%So%we%can%go%to%nice%restaurants%and%have%nice%servers%coming%out%and"%
Female%Waitress:%%Aw.%%Nothing%but%the%best.%%Nothing%but%the%best.%%I%cant%tell%you%any%other%night%when%
you%come%in%here%but"%%When%Im%working.%%[Laughter]%%
51%
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LG%
T"58%March%2,%2011%
Ron%Waters:%%Nice,%nice,%nice"%%
Tyron%Ali:%%Aw.%%Megans%always%nice%to%us.%%%
Ron%Waters:%%Yeah.%
Tyron%Ail:%%Shes%always%nice.%%
Ron%Waters:%%You%hit%a%home%run%today.%
Female%Waitress:%%Oh.%%Thank%you.%
Ron%Waters:%%And%the%other%lady%here"%
Tyron%Ali:%%Megan.%Uh"huh.%
Female%Waitress:%%Megan?%%
Tyron%Ali:%%Shes%wonderful.%%%
Ron%Waters:%%Wheres%Megan?%
Tyron%Ali:%%Were%talking%about%you%behind%your%back.%%%
[Laughter]%%
Ron%Waters:%%What%did%they,%what%did%they%do?%%They%only%picked%the%great%servers%in%this%restaurant%or%
what?%%
Tyron%Ali:%%Thank%you.%
Female%Waitress:%%Really?%%Yep.%%
Ron%Waters:%%You%gotta%be%A"number%one%to%work%here,%huh?%
Female%Waitress:%%Yep.%%Yeah.%%It%is%a%fun%place%to%work.%
Tyron%Ali:%%You%know,%because%you%could%be"%%All%Im%saying"%%All%Im%suggesting%to%you"%%You%look%at"%%Take%
this%page%out%of%Dwights%playbook.%%You%never%really%used%to%meet%with%anybody.%%%
Ron%Waters:%%No.%%
Tyron%Ali:%%Why%is%that?%%Understand%the%drill.%%If%you%come%to%talk%to%me"%
Tyron%Ali:%%"you%need%two%things.%%
52%
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LG%
T"58%March%2,%2011%
Tyron%Ali:%%Exactly%what%you%want%to%say"%
Ron%Waters:%%Mmhmm.%%
Tyron%Ali:%%"and%a%check.%%[Laughter]%%Am%I%lying?%
Ron%Waters:%%Thats%right.%
Tyron%Ali:%%You%know?%%Because%I%have%to%be"%%You%know,%for%me%to%do%what%I%need%to%do%for%you,%I%have%to%
want%to%be%able%to%listen%to%you.%%Im%not%saying%this%is%quid%pro%quo%but%it%helps.%%Its%all"%
Ron%Waters:%%But%you%know"%%Its"%%You"%
Tyron%Ali:%%If%you%want%me%to%keep%representing%your,%your%interests,%you%gotta%keep%sending%me%back.%%
Thats%how%that%works.%%
Ron%Waters:%%Do%you%know%who%itll%be?%%You%know%who%is%gonna%work%with%this"%
Tyron%Ali:%%Whos%this?%
Ron%Waters:%%"for%the%time%being?%
Tyron%Ali:%%Mmhmm.%
Ron%Waters:%%Frank%Oliver.%
Tyron%Ali:%%Okay.%
Ron%Waters:%%He%retired.%%Hes%not%a%member.%%
Tyron%Ali:%%We%need%someone%active,%man,%and%you%cant%put%Michelle%Brownlee%in%there%because%"%
Ron%Waters:%%Oh%no.%
Tyron%Ali:%%"%she%is%too%damn%new.%%%
Ron%Waters:%%No.%%No.%%Im%just%saying"%%But"%%Not%on%the%non"profit%side%but%on%the%PAC%stuff.%%
Tyron%Ali:%%Frank,%Franks%got%a%lot%of%[inaudible]%influences%that%know%about%this.%%Think%about%a%female.%%
Diversity.%%Two%females%and%a%male.%%You%know?%
Ron%Waters:%%What,%what,%what"%%What%positions%do%we%need%to%fill?%
Tyron%Ali:%%You%need%on,%on,%on%the%non"profit%side,%right?%%Youd%be%Chair.%%Of%course.%
Tyron%Ali:%%I%mean,%%Louise%could%be%secretary.%
%
53%
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LG%
T"58%March%2,%2011%
Tyron%Ali:%%Then%on%the%PAC%side,%you%need%to%be%Chair"%
Tyron%Ali:%%"but%you%also%need%somebody%to%treasure.%%So%you%need%one%person.%%So%if%you%could%have%two%
women,%people%you%could%get%along%with.%
Ron%Waters:%%Okay.%%%
Tyron% Ali:% % You% know% what% I% mean?% % People% you% can% trust% that"% % And,% and% people% who% understand%
relevancy.%
Tyron%Ali:%%Folks%you%can%talk%to%and%put%into%place%some%deliverables%and%they%respect%you%so%much%they%
would%just"%%And%this%would%give%Louise%an%opportunity%to%be%more%productive%for%you.%
Female%Waitress:%%Did%yall%want%any%coffee%or%anything%to%drink?%
Tyron%Ali:%%Of%course.%%%
Female%Waitress:%%What%kind%of%coffee%would%you%like?%
Ron%Waters:%%No,%I%dont%want%anything.%
Tyron%Ali:%%You%dont%want%any%dessert?%%You%dont%want%another%cup%of%tea?%
Ron%Waters:%%Nah.%%Im%okay.%%%
Tyron%Ali:%%Can%I%have%a%cappuccino%please?%%
Female%Waitress:%%Mmhmm.%
Tyron%Ali:%%Thank%you,%dear.%%%
Ron%Waters:%%This%cold%is%taking%[inaudible].%
Tyron%Ali:%%Are%you%going%back%to%Philly%tonight?%%
Ron% Waters:% % No.% % No.% % No.% % Im% going% back% to% the% room% and% Im% gonna% stop% at,% um,% one% of% those%
restaurants"%%Those,%those%convenience%stores"%
Tyron%Ali:%%Mmhmm.%
Ron%Waters:%%Im%gonna%get%some"%%[Sneeze]%
Tyron%Ali:%%God%bless%you.%%
54%
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LG%
T"58%March%2,%2011%
Ron%Waters:%%"some%tea.%%%
Tyron%Ali:%%So%I%guess%were%not%smoking%tonight.%
Ron%Waters:%%No.%
Tyron%Ali:%%Because%you%would"%%It%might%aggravate%your%cold.%%%
Ron%Waters:%%It%would.%%It%would.%%I%see%that%smoke%[inaudible]%
Tyron%Ali:%%Well,%as%soon%as%you%get%over%it,%get%on%it.%[Laughter]%%
Ron%Waters:%%Oh,%wow.%%Thank%you,%brother.%%Thank%you.%%%
Tyron%Ali:%%Only%a%hundred%people%in%America%roll%that%cigar.%%
Ron%Waters:%%Really?%
Tyron%Ali:%%Yeah.%%Leave%her%be.%%Yes.%%
Ron%Waters:%%That%seems%a%very"%%Now%which%side%do%I%plant%it%on?%%That%sounds%weird.%%%
Tyron%Ali:%%Just%cut%it%right%here.%%
Ron%Waters:%%I%got%a,%um"%%That%PAC,%Im%telling%you.%%Now%I%know%its%not%a%priority.%%%[inaudible]%whether%
she%call%me%or%not.%%%That%would%be%the%last%video%at%the%board%meeting.%%I%got%a%team%ready%immediately%%
[inaudible]%%It%would%be%easy%to%get%twenty"seven%[inaudible].%
2:01:10%
Ron%Waters:%%What"%%This%is%something%that%I%always%said%I%wanted%to%do%today.%%I%wanted%to%tie"%%I%thought%
maybe"%%I%dont%know%what%it%would%be.%%Just%imagine%a%PAC%would%probably%maybe%be%a%hundred%people%
or%more%who%would%be%committed%so%we%could%get%a%thousand%dollars%a%piece.%%
Tyron%Ali:%%And%see,%I%can%be%the%person%in%charge%of%fund%raising"%
Tyron%Ali:%%"because%I%can%do%it%in%a%way%that%you"%
Tyron%Ali:%%"cant.%%If%you%just%give%me%a%little%seat"%
Ron%Waters:%%Yeah.%
Tyron%Ali:%%"as%the%Chair%advisor.%
55%
%
LG%
T"58%March%2,%2011%
Ron%Waters:%%Right.%%Yeah.%
Tyron%Ali:%%You%know%what%I%mean?%%The%Chairs%advisor.%%
Ron%Waters:%%Yeah.%%Yeah.%
Tyron%Ali:%%Or%special%assistant%to%the%Chair.%%%
Ron%Waters:%%Special%assistant%to%the%Chair.%%[Laughter]%%Okay.%%
Tyron%Ali:%%You%know?%%Thank%you,%dear.%%%
Ron% Waters:% % You% got% a% huge% committee% of% a% hundred% companies% committed% to% a% thousand% each% or%
something.%
Tyron%Ali:%%Its%five"thousand%because%what%you%do%is"%%You%break%it%accordingly%based%on%your%target.%%
Ron%Waters:%%Okay.%
Tyron% Ali:% % You% want% twelve"hundred% and% fifty% dollars% per% year% which% is% essentially% like% two"hundred%
dollars%a%month.%%Now%you%get%the%donor%list%from%X,%the%donor%list%from%Y.%%And%the%way%that%you%can%get%
Rosita,% you% can% get% her% to% help,% is% not% by% explaining% it% to% her% but% tell% her% she% has% never% been% a%
quintessential% % fund% raiser.% % Youre% willing% to% step% out% on% a% limb,% reach% out% to% her,% and% help% her% be% a%
shining%example%of%what%a%Chair%of%a%committee%ought%to%be.%
Ron%Waters:%%Hmm.%
Tyron%Ali:%%Two%things,%leadership%and%resources.%%You%gotta%almost%pitch%Rosita.%%%Its%kind%of%strange.%%I%
cant%imagine,%after%all%these%years,%I%gotta%sit%there%and%make%two%phone%calls"%%
Ron%Waters:%%I%know,%man.%
Tyron%Ali:%%But%since%they"%%First%of%all,%I%dont%call%a%whole%lot%of%people.%
Tyron%Ali:%%You%know?%%People%call%me.%%I%dont%call%a%whole%lot%of%people.%%
Ron%Waters:%%She%has%[inaudible]%%if%he%cares%%[inaudible]%%%%%
Tyron%Ali:%%If%Harold%was%still%here"%%[inaudible]%Kenyatta.%%Id%call%Harold%at%Donalds(?),%man.%%I%love%the%
brother.%%Where%you%at?%%You%know%what%I%mean?%%Youre%my%buddy.%%Just%like%me%and%you%sit%down%and%
talk,%me%and%Harold%go%out%and%sit%down%and%talk.%%You%know,%but%the%dynamic%trio,%Jewell,%Harold%and%
John,%nowadays%no%more.%%Plus%Harolds%really%sick%anyway.%
Ron%Waters:%%Yes%he%is.%%%
56%
%
LG%
T"58%March%2,%2011%
Tyron%Ali:%%Hes%real%sick.%%And%then%Karen,%she%got%that%stomach%problem.%%I%dont%know%which%ones"%%%I%
havent%seen%them%in%a%little%while.%%
Ron%Waters:%%You%saying%he"%%%
Tyron%Ali:%%No%dear,%its%one%check.%%%
Female%Waitress:%%One%check?%%
Tyron%Ali:%%One%check.%%Thank%you.%%%%
Ron%Waters:%%%You%mean%the%one%where%he%[inaudible]%%
Tyron%Ali:%%Uh,%no.%%His%daughter.%%Yeah,%shes%working%for%the%Sherriffs%office%for%a%minute.%%%%
Ron%Waters:%%Oh.%Right.%%
Tyron%Ali:%%But%I%aint%seen%her"%%%
Ron%Waters:%%He%has%three%daughters.%%I%mean,%its%one%of%the"%%Yeah,%he%has%three%daughters.%
Tyron%Ali:%%Yeah.%%He%had%quite%a%few.%%
Ron%Waters:%%Yeah.%%Yeah.%
Tyron%Ali:%%Because%his%grandkids%go%to,%uh,%that,%that,%uh,%that%school%down%there%in%South%Philly.%%
Ron%Waters:%%Okay.%%Yeah,%um.%%You%said%that,%Serena?%%Selena?%%You%said%Serena?%%
Tyron%Ali:%%Yeah.%%Mmhmm.%%
Ron%Waters:%%Um,%and,%um.%%Yeah%Karen.%%Thats%right.%
Tyron%Ali:%%Shes%such%a%wonderful%person.%%%
Tyron%Ali:%%I%think,%uh"%%I,%I%know%she%was%very%ill,%you%know?%%%
Ron%Waters:%%Yeah,%the%PAC,%the%PAC%and%the%non"profit.%%
Tyron%Ali:%%Yep.%%And%you%know%with%us%helping%you,%you%aint%gonna%"%%Because,%Ron,%you%know%Im%a%hard%
working%person.%
Tyron%Ali:%%You%know,%I%get%it%in%and%I%get%it%done.%%%
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Ron% Waters:% % Yeah.% % So% the% PAC,% the% PAC% goes% on% somebodys% one% way,% but% the% non"profit% goes% after%
grants.%%
Tyron%Ali:%%But%see%you%can%move%the%money%from%the%non"profit%to%facilitate%the%company.%
Ron%Waters:%%Who?%
Tyron%Ali:%%You%can%leverage%money%from%the%non"profit%to%facilitate%the%PAC.%%%
Ron%Waters:%%Right.%%%
Tyron% Ali:% % Let% me% give% you% an% example.% % Lets% say% we% got% two"% % Lets% say% we% got% a% pharmaceutical%
company% and% a% tobacco% company,% % right?% % Explain% to% them% that% youre% looking% at% autism.% % Okay?% % We%
utilize%me.%%%Go%and%sit%down%and%talk%to%them.%%This%is%what%the%Black%Legislative%Caucus%of%Pennsylvania"%%
These%are%our%topics%and%agendas%for%X%number%of%months.%%%
Ron%Waters:%%Alright.%%%
Tyron%Ali:%%Um.%%Does%your%business%have%anything%that%they%would%like%to%add%or%is%there%an%issue%paper%
that%they%would%like%to%write,%specifically%addressing%this%issue?%%Whos%in%charge%of%your%governmental%
affairs%group?%%Talk%to%these%key%people.%%Get%the%information%and%then%start%combining%it%in%such%a%way%
that%it%eventually%leads%to%the%check%writing%ceremony.%%Then%we%move%the%money.%%We%move%it%around%
and%its%completely%okay%to%be%able%to%get%from%one%place%to%the%next%without%raising%any%eyebrows.%%But%
the%PAC"%%The,%the%interesting%thing%about%the%PAC%is"%%The%PAC%can%support%legislation%and%the%non"profit%
can%either%support%it%or%restrict%it%or%endorse%it.%%And%they%can%get%money%from%people%who%have%an%issue%
or%people%who%are%against%the%issue.%%%
Ron%Waters:%%Thats%true.%
Ron%Waters:%%Yeah.%%Non"profits%are%a%rallying%instrument.%%
Tyron%Ali:%%You%can%rally%support.%
Ron%Waters:%%Yeah.%
Tyron%Ali:%%You%can%rally%support%nationally.%%
Tyron%Ali:%%And%the%fact%that%these%people%have%low%growth.%%The%fact%that%Ill%be%standing%around%to%set%it%
up"%%What%the%rules%and%regulations%are,%what%the%regulatory%issues%could%be,%will%move%aside,%you%know.%%
And,%and,%uh,%move%on,%on%the%side%of%the%non"profit%first.%%%
Tyron%Ali:%%Then,%set%up%the%PAC%because%its%a%little%bit%easier%to%do%that%way.%%
%
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Ron%Waters:%%[inaudible]%That,%thats%a%good,%good%[inaudible]%and%get%it%set%up%by%spring?%
Tyron%Ali:%%Yep.%%%
Tyron% Ali:% % And% then% next% week% or% week% after% next,% me,% you% and% who% else?% % Next% week,% we% should%
definitely%have%dinner%with%Louise.%%Get%her"%%Get%her,%her,%uh,%her%position%on%it,%sort%of.%%%
Ron%Waters:%%Okay.%Yeah.%
Tyron%Ali:%%You%know?%%And%then,%uh,%well"%
Ron%Waters:%%See,%%I%think%shell%be%okay%because%she%was%with%me%when%[inaudible]%
Tyron%Ali:%%Oh%good.%%
Ron%Waters:%%Yeah.%%She%was%right%there.%%I,%I%mentioned%something%to%her%about%this.%%I%told%her%about%
you.%%She%was%like,%oh%yeah.%%
Tyron%Ali:%%Yeah.%
Ron%Waters:%%Yeah,%she%likes%you%so"%
Tyron%Ali:%%Louise%always%did%like%me.%
Ron% Waters:% % Yeah,% I% think"% % I% think% in,% um"% % I% think"% % And% she,% she,% I% mean"% % Shes% kind% of% unorthodox%
[inaudible]%
Tyron%Ali:%%Mmhmm.%
Ron%Waters:%%"but%shes%not%slow.%%%
Tyron%Ali:%%No,%shes%not.%%Shes%a%very%smart%lady.%%Thats%why%I%love%her%to%death.%%Shes%a%very%smart%
lady.%%%%
Ron%Waters:%%And%she%has%this%great%ability%to%get%everybody%to"%
Tyron%Ali:%%Everybody.%
Ron%Waters:%%[inaudible]%%And%she%has%a%lot%of%national%contacts%too%[inaudible]%%
Tyron%Ali:%%What?%
Ron% Waters:% % Michael% Jackson% resolution.% % After% Michael% died,% Louise% Williams% offered% a% resolution,% a%
condolence% % resolution% about% him% and% his% history.% % So% then% thats% an% awkward% moment% too.% % Louise%
offered%a%resolution%but%Vanessa%already%said%that%she%wanted%to%become%the%new%[inaudible]%%It%became%
an%argument%about%whose%resolution%was%he%gonna%introduce,%Louise%or%hers.%I%dont%know%what%this%guy%
did.%%So%Vanessa%[inaudible]%%
%
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Tyron%Ali:%%Louise%did,%right?%%Yes.%%Yes.%%%
Ron%Waters:%%Louise%comes%to%town%and%she%says,%from%a%child.%%He%used%to%come%to%my%house%and%eat%
dinner%with%my%children.%%She%said,%you%know,%him,%Jermaine,%um,%Tito%(?)%and,%um,%uh"%
Tyron%Ali:%%Ill%just%take%the%receipt%when%youre%coming%back%too.%%
Female%Waitress:%%Okay%%%
Tyron%Ali:%%With%some%change,%please.%%%
Female%Waitress:%%Mmhmm.%
Tyron%Ali:%%Thank%you.%%%%
Ron%Waters:%%His%kids%came%to%my%house%and%eat%with%my%kids.%
Ron%Waters:%%[inaudible]was%telling%my%husband%he%was%bringing%to%town,%you%know.%
Tyron%Ali:%%Jimmy%Bishop.%%Thats%right.%%
Ron%Waters:%%Jimmy%Bishop.%%Hes%the%one%they%chose.%%She%said,%I%know%him%personally.%%You%know,%so"%%
Tyron%Ali:%%Mmhmm.%%%
Ron%Waters:%%Yeah,%and%I%offered%the%resolution%first.%%So%we,%we%ended%up%seeing%no%resolution%at%all.%%
Now,%Louise,%today,%is%[inaudible]%to%do%it%again.%
Tyron%Ali:%%Let%her%do%it,%man,%because%shes%a%beautiful%person.%%You%know?%
Ron%Waters:%%Yeah,%but%listen.%%You%aint%gonna%win%this%battle.%%The%only%thing%you%gonna%do"%%Shes%got%
more%credibility%%and%respect.%%%
Tyron%Ali:%%Ive%seen%the%way%that"%%[Laughter]%%
Ron%Waters:%%Shes%got%more%credibility%and%respect"%
Tyron%Ali:%%Yes.%
Ron%Waters:%%"in%any%caucus%than%what%Vanessa%does.%%Let%her%have%it.%%%
Ron%Waters:%%She%know"%%And%plus"%
Tyron%Ali:%%Yeah.%%%
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Ron%Waters:%%She%knows%the%guy%personally.%%Asking%him%would%be%early%sign"on,%so%you%name%comes%up%
early%like%right%behind%early%[inaudible].%%Come%on,%now.%%I%do%it.%%I%always%lose%on%account%of%somebody%
else%be%the%person%[inaudible]%I%said,%alright.%%I%said,%you%need%to%find%a%sponsor%and%Ill%sign%on.%%Yes.%%Its%
the%art%of%negotiating,%man.%%Its%not%a%battle.%%
Tyron%Ali:%%Well,%you%should%be%the%co"sponsor%because%you%know%what%happens%next,%right?%%%
Ron%Waters:%%Whats%that?%%%
Tyron%Ali:%%The%guy%who%actually"%%The%doctor"%
Ron%Waters:%%Yeah.%
Tyron%Ali:%%"who,%who%was%responsible%for%treating%Michael.%%%
Ron%Waters:%%Yeah.%
Tyron%Ali:%%He%was%from%Trinidad.%%%
Ron%Waters:%%I%can%co"sponsor.%
Tyron%Ali:%%Yeah.%%You%co"sponsor.%%%
Ron%Waters:%%Which%she%did.%%%
Tyron%Ali:%%You%the%Chair.%
Ron%Waters:%%Well,%what%she%did.%%Because%she%didnt%want%to%be%just%a%black%kid%from"%%She%asked%a%white%
girl%to%sign.%%And%then"%%So%she%got%her%name,%a%white%name.%%%And%then%she%said,%because%[inaudible]%%
Tyron%Ali:%%Sure.%%Sure.%%%
Ron% Waters:% % So% my% name% would% be% third% on% the% list% and% they% always% have% the% top% five% names.% % The%
prime%sponsor%and%then%four%other%names,%and%everybody%elses%name%just%sits%in%the%back.%%%
Ron%Waters:%%When%it%comes%up%on%floor%for%a%vote,%theyll%list%the%top%three%names"%
Tyron%Ali:%%Mmhmm.%
Ron%Waters:%%""%and%others.%Okay?%%So%my%name%is%gonna%be%right%in%the%middle,%okay?%%
Tyron%Ali:%%Good.%%
Ron%Waters:%%So%that%was%the%strategy.%%I%said,%Im%fine"%
Tyron%Ali:%%And%politically,%its%the%right%strategy.%%
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Tyron%Ali:%%The,%the,%the,%the%one%thing%I%enjoy%about%Louise%is%how%intelligent%she%is.%%%
Ron%Waters:%%Shes%wise.%%She,%I%mean"%%She,%she"%
Tyron%Ali:%%Yes.%%
Ron%Waters:%%She,%she,%she"%%She%has%a%different%kind%of%wisdom%than%Frank.%%Frank%Oliver%was%another%
wise%person%but%his%wisdom%was%a%little%more%organized,%you%know.%%But,%but%what%she%does%is%that%she%
understands%how%other%people%think%because%she%has%a%lot%of%involvement.%
Tyron%Ali:%%Mmhmm.%
Ron%Waters:%%And%her%children%[inaudible]%%
Ron%Waters:%%Shes%been%around%them%a%lot.%%She,%shes%talked%to%them%a%lot.%%
Ron%Waters:%%She%kind%of%understands%the%way%they%think.%
Tyron%Ali:%%Yes.%
Ron%Waters:%%I%think%they"%%They,%they%just%have%different%styles.%%Thats%what%it%is,%they%just%have%different%
styles.%%But%her%and%I%have%grown%very%close%over%the%years.%
Ron% Waters:% % I% mean,% very% close.% % I% mean,% so% close% that% some% people% thought% that% her% and% I% had% a%
relationship.%%%
Tyron%Ali:%%Okay.%%
Ron%Waters:%%But%we%dont.%%But%she%has%a%true%love%for%Ron%Waters.%%
Tyron% Ali:% % Absolutely.% % Im% gonna% share% something% with% you.% % Everybody% at% her% house% that% day,% she"%%
There,%there%were%some%people%that%she%reached%out%to%because%politically,%its%correct%but%I%know%that%
group.%%I%dont%know.%%The%first%time%I%ever%went%to%her%house,%right?%%She%was%having%something%and%she%
said,%Tyron.%%You%know,%I%dont%really%wanna%ask%you%but,%but%I%need%something.%%I%said,%Louise,%you%know%
me.%%What%do%you%need?%%She%said,%we%need%like%a%hundred%turkeys.%
%
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Tyron%Ali:%%Man,%I%had%them%boys%drive%up%to%her%house%and%drop%it%off.%%She,%she%called%me%up%and%she%
said,%oh%this%is%amazing%because%you%dont%understand%how%much%we%needed%this.%%%
Tyron%Ali:%%I%told%her"%%I%said,%you%know,%look.%%You%know%where%Im%from%and%you%know%all%my%friends.%%
You%know,%were%here%to%help%each%other.%%
Tyron%Ali:%%She,%she%said%to%me"%%She%said,%its,%its,%its%amazing%that%you%are"%%Ive%seen%you%grow%in%your%
career%and%now%youre%lobbying%us%in%Harrisburg.%%%
Ron%Waters:%%Yeah,%man.%%Yeah.%
Tyron%Ali:%%She%said"%%[Laughter]%%Its%been"%%Its%been%a%journey.%
Ron%Waters:%%Im%glad"%%%Im%glad%you%got%your,%um,%your%ID.%%
Tyron%Ali:%%Yeah.%%%
Ron%Waters:%%That%stuff"%
Tyron%Ali:%%Well%Hughes%was%teasing%me%because%I,%I%saw%him,%uh,%at%Capital%Grill.%
Ron%Waters:%%Okay.%
Tyron%Ali:%%And%he%said,%uh"%%Well%you%got%your%ideas%and%man,%theyre%gonna%send%it%to%me.%%I%promise%
you.%%[Laughter]%
Ron%Waters:%%And%I%see%you%walking%around%with%it.%%%
Tyron%Ali:%%Yeah.%%Because%a%lot%of%folks,%um"%%People"%%You%know,%Ron,%I%try%to%keep%myself%as%innocuous%
as%possible.%%Number%one%because%I%keep,%I%keep%my,%my%ideas%and%my%thoughts%to%myself.%%And%unless%
Im%dealing%with%you,%then%Im%not%dealing%with%you.%%The%most%I%will%say%to%you%is%hello.%%%
Tyron%Ali:%%Its%like%with%that%young%lady%this%morning.%
Tyron%Ali:%%I%dont%know%her.%
Tyron%Ali:%%I%dont"%%Shes%as%cute%as%a%button"%
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Tyron%Ali:%%"but%I%dont%know%you.%%You%know?%%And%none%of%my%friends%really%know%you.%%So%guess%what?%%
You%know?%%
Ron%Waters:%%But%see"%%In%the%game"%%She%wants%to%be%a"%%I%think%she"%%She%wants%to%be%a,%a%major%player.%%
And%then%most%people%do%want%to%be%a%major%player%and%you%know?%%But%I%think%shes%had"%%She,%she,%she%
definitely%has%to%take%a%back%seat%to,%uh"%
Tyron%Ali:%%To%who?%
Ron%Waters:%%To%you.%%[Laughter]%%I%mean,%like"%%I%mean,%shes%always%talking%about%fund%raising%decisions,%
um,%but%I%think%she%wanted%to"%
Tyron%Ali:%%I%would%gladly,%man.%%[Laughter]%%
Ron%Waters:%%I%thought%you"%%I%dont%know%why%I%thought%but%for%some%reason%I%just%took%it%for%granted%
that%you%guys%knew%each%other.%%You,%Oroco,%um"%
Tyron%Ali:%%Yeah.%
Ron%Waters:%%Who,%who,%who%you%said%really%dont%have%any%clients%anymore.%
Tyron%Ali:%%Not%much.%%No%he%dont.%%Hes%here%trying%so"%
Ron%Waters:%%But%see,%thats%why%he%protects%you.%%He%said"%
Tyron%Ali:%%Mmhmm.%
Ron%Waters:%%Now%I%wonder%why%he%last%told%to%you%because%he%leaves"%%But%he%dont%really%understand%
that%issue.%%
Tyron%Ali:%%But%see,%what%you%gotta%tell%Oroco%is%listen.%%You%gotta%tell%him,%Tyron,%we%met.%%He%knows%who%
I% am.% % I% know% who% he% is.% % Because% what% that% does% is,% it% insulates% you% from% everything.% % Always% gotta%
protect%yourself.%%
Ron%Waters:%%Yeah.%
Tyron%Ali:%%You%know?%%You%tell%him,%you%see%that%young%man%you%met?%%Looks%like%hes%half%Pakistani,%half%
Uzbekistani?%%He%got%called%in.%%[Laughter]%%%
Ron%Waters:%%Yeah.%%[Laughter]%%%
Tyron%Ali:%%And%at%some%point,%you%know,%me,%you%and%him,%well%go%out.%%Well%go%out%to%McGraths%or%
something.%%Go%out%for%a%drink.%%You%know?%%
Ron%Waters:%%We%could%have%a%beer.%%
Tyron%Ali:%%Thank%you,%love.%%
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T"58%March%2,%2011%
Tyron%Ali:%%Thank%you%so%much.%%
Ron%Waters:%%Yeah.%%Hes%another%one%who"%%
Tyron%Ali:%%Here%you%go,%darling.%%Thank%you.%%%
Female%Waitress:%%Thank%you%and%have%a%good%one.%%
Ron%Waters:%%[inaudible]%
Tyron% Ali:% % Oh% those% folks?% % See% the% thing% about% it% is,% they% dont% understand% the% dynamics.% % The% more%
schools%you%have%in%your%district,%the%more%leverage%you%have.%%The%more%capability%you%have%because%
now%they%really%do%need%your%help.%%%
Ron%Waters:%%Oh%they%do.%%%
Ron%Waters:%%They%do.%%%
Tyron% Ali:% % And,% and% to% have% people"% % Look,% I% have% a% lawyer% buddy% of% mine.% % He% just% got% a% grant% for% a%
million% dollars,% right?% % Now% we% helped% him% out% a% little% bit% on% the% proposal% side.% % This% was% actually% last%
year.%%Um,%he%wanted%to%get%some%green,%you%know,%um,%busses%that%were%ecologically%friendly.%%And%it%
was%a%federal%grant%for%a%million%dollars.%%Now%we%were%able%to%get%those%kinds%of%proposals%written%and%
then% have% them% comprehended% in% such% a% way% that% they% are% not% just,% um,% endorsing% the% facts% but% the%
opinion%of%the,%of%the%research%is%so%strong%that%you%cannot%really"%%excuse%me%"argue%against%it.%%%
Tyron%Ali:%%They%dont%have%any%choice%because%were%lobbying%so%well%and%so%strong,%all%you%can%do%is%
endorse%the%project.%%Plus%its%better%for%the%environment.%%Its%better%for%the%kids.%%Its%more%safety.%%The%
drivers%have,%uh,%the%ability%to,%uh"%%Because%of%the%types%of%window%panes%that%are%in%the,%uh,%in%the,%in%
the%busses,%they%actually%have%better%clarity%and%visibility%throughout%storms.%%%
Ron%Waters:%%Really?%%Okay.%
Tyron%Ali:%%Oh%yeah.%%%
Ron%Waters:%%Okay.%
Tyron% Ali:% % We% put% it% together% for% them% because% we% work% with% a% Korean% girl.% % She% has% a% PhD% from%
Harvard.%%Smart%chick.%%%
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T"58%March%2,%2011%
Tyron%Ali:%%She%loves%me%to%death.%%She%thinks%Im%the%smart%chick.%%[Laughter]%%I%said,%oh%no,%no,%no,%no.%%
She%said,%is%that%you,%Marin.%%I%said,%%on%Tuesdays.%%[Laughter]%%%
Ron%Waters:%%What%day%is%it%today?%%%
Tyron%Ali:%%Yeah.%%[Laughter]%%
Ron%Waters:%%Im%going%in,%man.%%%
Tyron%Ali:%%Alright,%my%friend.%%%
Ron%Waters:%%I%gotta%get"%%I%feel%really%bad,%man.%%But%Im%glad%that"%%%
Tyron%Ali:%%I%know%this%is%gonna%sound%kinda%strange%but%eat%a%piece%of%chocolate.%%
Ron%Waters:%%I%will%but%the%other%thing%is%I%dont%have%any%[inaudible]%session.%%I%dont%know%what%time"%%I%
believe%it%is%in%[inaudible].%%I%think%it%meets%at%ten.%%%
Tyron%Ali:%%Its"%%Yeah.%%Yeah.%%Yeah.%%I%have"%%They%just"%%Somebody%just%faxed%over%to%the%office,%uh,%the%
dates%that%you%guys%are%in%session%and%that%kind%of%thing.%%
Ron%Waters:%%Yeah.%%Were%gonna%be%in"%
2:17:45%
Tyron% Ali:% % So,% so% let% me% just,% just,% just% go% over% it% so% I% understand.% % You% want% me% to% start% working% on%
putting%together%a%non"profit?%%
Ron%Waters:%%Uh"huh.%%
Tyron%Ali:%%Okay.%%[inaudible]%%
Ron%Waters:%%You%gotta%make%sure%we%have,%um,%the%issue[inaudible]%of%the%non"profit.%%
Tyron%Ali:%%The,%the,%the%issue,%the%issue%could%be%anything%you%pick.%%
Ron%Waters:%%Uh"huh.%
Tyron% Ali:% % Because% the% way% were% gonna% set% it% up,% um,% with% your,% with% your% input% a% hundred% and% ten%
percent,%is%well%set%it%up%generally.%%%
Tyron%Ali:%%So%you%can%talk%about%financial%education.%
Ron%Waters:%%Uh"huh.%
Tyron%Ali:%%You%can%talk%about%juvenile%diabetes.%
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T"58%March%2,%2011%
Tyron%Ali:%%You%could%talk%about%podiatric"%%You%could%talk%about%anything%you%want.%%
Ron%Waters:%%Right.%%Right.%%
Tyron%Ali:%%And%what%we%do%is"%%Well%set%it%up%so%that%you%can%look%at%a%new%issue%every%quarter%and%look%
at% a% donor% list% from% a% different% industry% every% quarter.% % Even% if,% even% if% you% use% the% same% people,% its%
twelve"hundred%and%fifty%dollars%a%year.%%You%get%five"hundred%people"%As%a%matter%of%fact,%Im%sorry.%%You%
get% a% hundred% people% at% five"thousand% dollars,% twelve"hundred% and% fifty% dollars% a% year.% % Twenty"five%
hundred%dollars%each%year.%%%
Tyron%Ali:%%Look%at%the%money%youre%looking%at.%%%
Ron%Waters:%%I%know.%
Tyron%Ali:%%Half%a%million%dollars.%%Thats%the%math.%
Tyron%Ali:%%People"%%I%dont%understand%how%people%who%run%for%office%dont%know%about%the%economics%
of%politics.%%What%is%that?%%%
Ron% Waters:% % Because% a% lot%of%people% run%to%be%of%service.%%You%know,%and,%and,%and%what%happens% is%
that"%%%
Tyron%Ali:%%Yeah,%but%it%aint%free.%%
Ron%Waters:%%A%guy%calls%me,%a%guy%calls%me"%%This%is%the%guy%who,%who,%who%like%[inaudible].%%He%came%
from%the%[inaudible]%He%only%comes%around%the%hall.%%He,%he,%he%always%wanted%to%[inaudible]%He%has%this%
thing%that%doubt,%doubt%does%not%mean%to%harm%me%but%doubt%is%standing%in%the%area%of%which%Im%about%
to%shoot.%%[Laughter]%%
Tyron%Ali:%%Wow.%%Okay.%%%
Ron% Waters:% % So% what% it% is,% is% that% people% are% gonna% start% shooting% in% a% certain% direction.% % Dont% be%
standing%in%that%direction.%%Hed%be%like"%%He%wanted%me%to%like%call.%%He%said,%hes%creating"%
Tyron%Ali:%%Can%I%just,%can%I%just%say%this%to%you?%%If%Tony%does%not%deliver%this%voucher%program"%
Ron%Waters:%%Oh,%man.%%%
Tyron%Ali:%%Look%at%me%when%I%tell%you%this.%%
Ron%Waters:%%Yeah.%%Yeah.%%I%know.%%I%know.%
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Tyron%Ali:%%Im%not%kidding%you.%%
Ron%Waters:%%I%know.%%%
Tyron%Ali:%%Its,%it,%it,%it%is%[Scoff].%%They"%%The%term%that%I%would%like%to%ascribe%to%this%particular%issue%is%
worldwide%spectacle.%%
Tyron%Ali:%Yeah.%%Not%the%glasses%either.%
Ron%Waters:%%He%knows"%%Theres%no%way%that%anybody%could%get%that%much%money%beyond%somebody%
[inaudible]%%Like%me,%Im%talking%to%him.%%Yeah.%%I%dont%have%it.%%I%dont%have%it.%%By%next%week,%Im%gonna%
have%four%million%dollars%in%the%back.%%Whered%yall%get%that%money?%%%Shoot.%%Did%he%get%it?%%Nobody%ties%
up%that%much%money"%%I%think%first%of%all,%he%convinced%some%people%that%he%could%win%the%election%and%he%
didnt%because%he%promised%on"%%And,%and%I%knew%that%%the%governor%%or%whatever%juice%that%he%claimed%
he%was%going%to%be%able%to%generate,%I%could%live%without%it.%%%
Tyron%Ali:%%Plus,%you%know,%he%helped%split%the%vote.%
Ron%Waters:%%Huh?%
Tyron%Ali:%%He%helped%split%the%vote.%%%
Ron%Waters:%%Yeah.%%Oh%yeah.%%They%said%he%could%be%powerful.%
Tyron%Ali:%%Mmm.%%Thats%possible%%
Tyron%Ali:%%We%know%for%sure%he%took%the%vote%from%Onorato.%%%
Ron%Waters:%%Yeah.%%That"%
Tyron%Ali:%%%Because%Ron%Bush%called%me%up%and%he%was%like,%yo,%what%is%going%on?%%I%said,%I%told%you%guys"%%
[inaudible]%told,%uh,%Onorato"%%Hes%like,%yo,%you%need%1.8%and%he%made%some,%um,%accusatory%remarks%to%
Sam%and%to%Tony.%%So%I%met%with%Tony%and%Tony%was%like,%where%are%you%guys%on%this%issue?%%I%said,%um,%
actually%we%do%not%have%a,%uh,%horse%in%the%democratic%race.%%Hows%that%for%an%answer?%
Ron%Waters:%%Mmhmm.%%%
Ron%Waters:%%Yeah.%
Tyron%Ali:%%But,%but%at%the%end%of%the%day,%you%have%to%take%care%of%you.%%%
Ron%Waters:%%Yeah.%
68%
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T"58%March%2,%2011%
Tyron%Ali:%%You%know?%%And%find%some%good%people%around%you,%who%love,%adore%and%respect%you%and%are%
willing%to,%to%help%you,%uh,%be%the%focal%point%of,%of,%of%the%caucus%and%be%able%to%do%some%things.%%%
Ron%Waters:%%Did%I%tell%you%where%Im%going%next?%%Ill%tell%you%where%Im%going%next.%%Where%everybody"%%
Well%it%should%have%been%this%time%but"%%If%you%know%anything%about%me,%I%took%a%back%seat.%%He%wanted%
me%to%go%out%for%leadership.%%%
Tyron%Ali:%%Okay.%%
Ron% Waters:% % They% thought"% % They% knew% that% when% they% took% [inaudible]% out,% that% means% that% there%
would%be%nobody%of%color%for%leadership.%%So%they%were%trying%to%figure%out%who%would%be%a%good%person%
for%us%to%support%and%the%guys%came%to%me.%%Joe%Markosek%and%all%these%other%people%who%took%the%write%
out"%
Tyron%Ali:%%Mmhmm.%
Ron%Waters:%%"they%want%you%to%run%for%leadership.%%
Tyron%Ali:%%Well"%
Ron%Waters:%%They%wanted%me%to%be%the%whip.%%%
Tyron%Ali:%%We%have%some%relationships%with%some%other%folks,%especially%from%the%Western%part%of%the%
State.%%
Ron%Waters:%%Yeah.%
Tyron%Ali:%%Um,%think%about%that.%%At%least"%%%
Ron%Waters:%%[inaudible]%%
Tyron%Ali:%%People%need%to%know%youre%serious.%
Ron%Waters:%%Right.%%Right.%%[inaudible]%%
Ron%Waters:%%Okay?%%But%I%have%a%feeling%that%hes%gonna%go%back%on%it.%%
Tyron%Ali:%%Of%course.%%
Ron%Waters:%%But%Im%still%a%leader.%%%
Tyron%Ali:%%Of%course.%
Ron%Waters:%%Okay?%%
Tyron%Ali:%%Youre%a%leader%without%any%of%that.%%
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Ron%Waters:%%Of%course.%%Dwight%was%a%leader.%%I%mean,%everybody"%%He%was%a%leader.%%I%mean,%of%course%
he%was%the%black"%%I%mean,%he%wasnt%the%Chair%of%the%Black%Caucus%because%he%didnt%need%to%be.%%He%was%
in%a%position"%%He%influenced%the%Black%Caucus%and%the%positions%of%the%party.%%Alright?%%%
Ron%Waters:%%Im%real%close%with%the%Appropriation%Chair%now.%%%
Tyron%Ali:%%Mmhmm.%
Ron%Waters:%%And"%%Im%close%with%him%and%I%gained%his%respect.%%If%I%go"%%After%this%term%is%up,%if%I%go%to%
leadership"%
Tyron%Ali:%%Mmhmm.%
Ron%Waters:%%Okay?%%And%I%have%this%unraised%capacity%with%the%PAC?%
Ron%Waters:%%And%the,%um,%non"profit"%
Tyron%Ali:%%Yes.%
Ron%Waters:%%"that%were%still%doing%with%the%issues%through%our%community.%%
Tyron%Ali:%Yes.%%%
Ron%Waters:%%You%know%that"%%I%mean,%I%could%still%do%that%and%still%be%a%leader.%%%
Tyron%Ali:%%Mmhmm.%%Mmhmm.%%
Ron%Waters:%%So%no%matter%who%Chair%the%Black%Caucus,%they%gonna%still"%%Me%and%them%are%still%gonna%
work%together.%%
Tyron%Ali:%%Well%see,%I%think%the%other%thing%is%that"%%And%youre%hitting%on"%%Youre%hitting%the%nail%on%the%
head.%%is%that%at%that%point,%title%is%not%critical,%although%its%still%important.%%Because%people%will%know,%
hey%Ron%control%X,%Y,%and%Z.%%It%doesnt%matter%what%you"%whether%or%not%he%holds%that%title,%he%is%the%
man.%%
Ron%Waters:%%Thats%right.%%Still%the%man.%
Tyron%Ali:%%The%man.%%
Ron%Waters:%%Im%the%man.%%And%thats%how%people%treat%me.%%Senators%and%all%of%them.%%
Tyron%Ali:%%Of%course.%%%
Ron%Waters:%%Like,%Ron,%man,%how%you%doing?%
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Tyron%Ali:%%One%of%the%things%that%I%would%like%you%to%think%about%is%whom%the%senate%will%[inaudible].%%Not%
necessarily%on%the%democratic%side%either.%
Ron%Waters:%%Right.%%Right.%%%
Tyron%Ali:%%You%know?%%Because%honestly%if%we%put%something"%%If%we%put%something%together%thats%big%
enough,%were%not%gonna%be%able%to%get%what%we%need%from,%from%your%side%of%the%fence.%%%
Tyron%Ali:%%You%know%what%I%mean?%%%
Ron% Waters:% % Right.% % No,% were% good% there.% % These% people"% % You% know% I% work% with% up% there% already?%%
[inaudible]%of%the%criminal%justice%system.%%I%work%with%Greenleaf%,%him%and%I%sit%down%[inaudible].%
Tyron%Ali:%%Greenleaf?%%
Ron%Waters:%%Yeah.%%And%those%other%guys%who%asked%to%meet%with%me%and%I%did,%named,%um"%%You%met%
him.%%Went%over%two%years%ago.%%Nice%guy.%%With%a%B.%%Was%it%Baker.%%No,%not%Baker.%%What%is%it?%
Tyron%Ali:%%Brubaker?%%%
Ron%Waters:%%Brubaker.%%Yeah.%%
Tyron%Ali:%%Okay.%%%
Ron%Waters:%%Brubaker.%
Tyron%Ali:%%Senator%Brubaker.%%Good%guy.%%%
Ron%Waters:%%He%came%to%me"%
Tyron%Ali:%%Yeah.%
Ron%Waters:%%He%said,%Ron,%Im%gonna%introduce%myself%to%you.%%He%called%the%office%ahead%to%set%up%a%
meeting.%%%
Tyron%Ali:%%Mmhmm.%
Ron% Waters:% % And% we% had% breakfast% and% he% said,% I% want% to% know% more% about% the% Black% Caucus.%%
[inaudible]%%I%said,%um,%how%many%black%people%do%you%have%in%your%district?%%He%said,%I%dont%think%I%even%
have%one%percent.%%%
Tyron%Ali:%%Mmhmm.%
Ron%Waters:%%I%said,%you%still%interested%in%the%Black%Caucus?%%He%said,%Im%interested%in%the%Black%Caucus.%%%
71%
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Ron%Waters:%%He%said,%because%I%just%want%to%know.%%%
Tyron%Ali:%%Right.%%%
Ron%Waters:%%We%sat%down%and%we%talked%so%we%have%that%relationship.%
Tyron%Ali:%%Mmhmm.%
Ron%Waters:%%Brubaker,%not%Brubaker,%but,%uh,%the%other%one"%%Greenleaf"%
Ron%Waters:%%"had%reached%out%to%the%Black%Caucus%before%I%was%Chair%about%some%things%he%wanted%to%
undo%about%the%criminal%justice%system%that%he%did%under%Lynne%Abrahams%direction.%
Tyron%Ali:%%Mmhmm.%
Ron%Waters:%%So%I%went%to%his%office,%his%district%office"%
Tyron%Ali:%%Mmhmm.%
Ron% Waters:% % "and% met% with% him% and% told% him,% Im,% Im% concerned% about% these% issues% too% but% Im% not%
Chair%of%the%Caucus%so%I%cant%do%much%except%for%[inaudible].%%I%have%some%relationships%on%the%other%
side,%you%know?%
Tyron% Ali:% % And% we% will% help% you% develop%those%because%well,%well% bring% some% folks% when% the% time% is%
right.%%And%its%not%something%that%we%need"%%You%know"%%All%I,%I%want%you%to%think%about%is%that%this%is%not%
a%marathon"%
Tyron%Ali:%%"in,%in%terms%of%a%sprinting%marathon.%%%
Tyron%Ali:%%This%is%more%like%a%long%run%marathon.%%%
Ron% Waters:% % How% about"% % How% about% Kitchens?% % Do% you% want% to% bring% her% in% at% all?% % Not% as% a% lead%
person"%%I%mean,%but%its,%uh"%%Will%she%work%with%any%Democrats%at%all?%%
Tyron%Ali:%%Well,%were%going%to%have%to"%
Tyron%Ali:%%"but%not%Shirley.%%%
Tyron%Ali:%%Shirley%burned%us%on%a%half%a%million%dollars.%%%
72%
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Ron%Waters:%%She%did?%%
Tyron%Ali:%%Oh.%%I%told%you%the%story.%
Ron%Waters:%%Okay.%%Alright.%
Tyron%Ali:%%We%cant%let%that%happen%again%because%then%Im%gonna%have%some%folk%upset.%%We%cant%have%
that.%
Ron%Waters:%%Okay,%Ill%take%her%out.%%How%about%Mike%Stack%might%be%good.%
Tyron%Ali:%%Stackey%might%be%good.%%%
Ron%Waters:%%Because%thatll%win"%%Of%course%thatll%move%Vince.%%%
Tyron%Ali:%%Mmhmm.%
Ron%Waters:%%Hughes%[inaudible]%%
Tyron%Ali:%%We%dont%have%to%decide%on%it%now,%you%know?%%And%again,%the%other%thing%is,%anything%that%
were%involved%in,%that%you%help%us%with%the%deliverables,%you%automatically%with%us.%%%
Ron%Waters:%%Okay.%
Tyron%Ali:%%You%see%what%Im%saying?%%
Ron%Waters:%%Okay.%
Tyron%Ali:%%Like%Mr.%Fennerty%for%example.%%%
Ron%Waters:%%Oh%yeah.%
Tyron%Ali:%%You%know?%%%
Ron%Waters:%%I%know%[inaudible]%%
Tyron%Ali:%%If%we%get%one%or%two%million%dollars%to%collect%from%him,%its%a%wrap.%%%
Ron%Waters:%%But,%but%listen.%Wherever"%%Where%I%ran%into%him"%%Thats%why%it%was%good%that%I%knew%that%
so%that%when%he%threw%that%out,%I%was%like,%yeah%we%gonna%[inaudible].%
Tyron%Ali:%%Mmhmm.%%%%
[inaudible]%
Tyron%Ali:%%Thatd%be%good.%%When"%%Youll"%%Put%the%meeting%together.%%Well%go%to%The%Palm,%take%them%
out%to%lunch%and%solve%it.%
Ron%Waters:%%Sure.%%%
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Tyron%Ali:%%You%know?%%
Ron%Waters:%%Sure.%
Tyron%Ali:%%Im,%Im%gonna%get%a%couple%things%together.%
Ron%Waters:%%Okay.%%Alright.%%
Tyron%Ali:%%And%talk%to%Louise.%%%
Ron%Waters:%%Okay.%
Tyron%Ali:%%Alright?%%Now,%Ill,%Ill%give%you%a%call.%%%
Ron%Waters:%%OH%shell%be%up%here%next%week.%%
Tyron%Ali:%%Yeah.%%Maybe%we%can%have%dinner%Monday.%
Ron%Waters:%%Yeah.%
Tyron%Ali:%%You%know?%%She%might%go%back.%%She%goes%back%though.%%%
Ron%Waters:%%No,%she%goes%back.%%
Tyron%Ali:%%Thats%the%problem.%%
Ron%Waters:%%She%goes%back.%%%
Tyron%Ali:%%Wanna%have%breakfast%Monday?%%
Ron%Waters:%%Lets%see%how"%%Lets%see%how%early%she%can%get%up%here.%[inaudible]%
Tyron%Ali:%%Maybe%Ill,%Ill%call"%%Im%sorry?%
Ron%Waters:%%Hey,%when%she%comes%up,%shell%wanna%eat%breakfast.%%Tell%her%to%come%up%at%like%11:00.%
Tyron%Ali:%%Yeah.%
Ron%Waters:%%We%dont%start%[inaudible].%%%
Tyron%Ali:%%You%want%me%to%call%her%or%youll%call%her?%%%
Ron%Waters:%%We%dont%start%till%one.%
Tyron%Ali:%%You%call%her.%%%
Ron%Waters:%%Yeah.%
Tyron%Ali:%%Because%thats%official%business.%
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Ron%Waters:%%Yeah.%%Um,%Ill%talk%to%her.%
Tyron%Ali:%%Alright,%then%Ill%call%you%like,%uh,%tomorrow%afternoon%or%something%and%well%put%it%together.%
Ron%Waters:%%Alright.%
Tyron%Ali:%%Alright?%%Alright,%my%friend.%%[inaudible]%Ill%see%you%soon.%%%
Ron%Waters:%%Thank%you.%
Tyron%Ali:%%Oh,%youre%welcome.%%You%know%I%always%got%you.%%%
Ron%Waters:%%Alright.%%[inaudible]%
Tyron%Ali:%%Ill%call%you%tomorrow%afternoon%and%well%get%this%thing%moving.%%%
Female%Waitress:%%Goodnight%gentlemen.%%
Tyron%Ali:%%Goodnight%darling.%%Thank%you.%%%
[pause]%
Unidentified%Male:%%Thank%you.%
[pause]%
Tyron%Ali:%%Thank%you,%dear.%%
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T""63"Part"1"+"March"10,"2011"
Tyron"Ali:"++at"least"thats"what"I"think."
Investigator"Claude"Thomas:"Uh,"this"is"Claude"Thomas,"Senior"Supervisory"Special"Agent,"Pennsylvania"
Office"of"Attorney"General,"Badge"number"118,"A"Certification"number"is"A1418."Todays"date"is"F"+"
Thursday,"March"the"10th,"year"2011."Current"time"is"16:34"hundred"hours."About"to"record"a"consensual""
communication"between"CI"2010+01"in"reference"to"Investigation"number"36+622"and"RW,"number"RW"
being"called"at"is"area"code"(267)"246+6185."That"call"is"being"placed"now."
"
1:03"
[Phone&rings]"
Automated"Message:"You"call"has"been"forwarded"to"an"automatic"voice"message"system."2+6+7+2+4+6+6+
1+8+5"is"not"available."At"the"tone"++"
[Call&ended&by&Tyron&Ali]"
"
Tyron"Ali:"[Inaudible]"Voice"mail."
Investigator"Claude"Thomas:"Hm?""
Tyron"Ali:"Voice"mail."
Investigator"Claude"Thomas:"Ok."Well"try"back"in"a"little"bit."
T""63"Part"2"+"March"10,"2011"
Tyron"Ali:"[Inaudible]"
Investigator"Claude"Thomas:"Uh,"this"is"a"return"call"to"Rep"RW."A"preamble"will"be"placed"on"at"the"end"
of"the"call."
"
00:25"
[Phone-rings]"[Inaudible]"
Ron"Waters:"Umyes."
Tyron"Ali:"Hey"Ron!"Good"afternoon,"sir,"well,"actually"its"good"evening"now."Its"Tyron!"How"are"you?"
Ron"Waters:"Hey"man!"How"you"feelin"over"there?"
Tyron"Ali:"Good,"good."Listen,"I"got"a""can"you"talk"for"five"minutes?"I"gotta"question"for"ya."
Ron"Waters:"Ok."I"gotta"go"inside"of"a"board"meeting"that"Im"running"late"to,"but"I"got"a"couple"minutes."
What"do"you"need?"
Tyron"Ali:"Ok."Heres"the"thing."The,"the"Judge."Whats"his"name"again?"I"cant"remember"this"guys"name"
to"save"my"life."
Ron"Waters:"[Inaudible]"Elkin."Elkin."
Tyron"Ali:"What"is"it?"
Ron"Waters:"Elkin."E+L+K+I+N.""
Tyron"Ali:"Uh"huh."
Ron"Waters:"Tolliver."T+O+L+I+V+E+R."[sic]"
Tyron"Ali:"Ok,"Im"putting"my"schedule"together"for"next"week."What"kinda"support"are"you"looking"for"
from"me"for"him?"
Ron"Waters:"Oh."Um,"I"dont"even"know"+"hell"be"happy"to"get"some"money,"I"know"that."Um,"he"havin"
an"event"next"week"and"the"tickets"are"twenty"five"dollars"apiece."
Tyron"Ali:"Ok"
Ron"Waters:"So"
Tyron"Ali:"How"much"do"you"want"me"to"give"to"him?"
Ron"Waters:"Well,"I"had"+"I"promised"him"that"I"would,"uh,"get"at"least"a,"a"table"to"the"event,"but,"cause"
we"could"do"that"or,"or"any"better""Id"be,"Id"be"glad."
1"
"
T""63"Part"2"+"March"10,"2011"
Tyron"Ali:"Ok."How"much"is"the"table?"
Ron"Waters:"Event,"I"guess"the"table"would"be"ten"tickets."So"thats,"thats"not"bad."
Tyron"Ali:"Ok."And"Im"just"putting"this"in"my"schedule:"the"meeting"with"Vince"next"week,"Vince"
Fennerty,"is"it"Thursday"or"Friday"of"next"week"were"gonna"meet"at"The"Palm?"
Ron"Waters:"Ok."You"called"him"already?"
Tyron"Ali:"No,"no,"no."I"was"waiting"for"you"to"tell"me"when"to"call"him."Do"you"want"me"to"call"him?"
Ron"Waters:"No,"Ill"call"him!"Dont"worry"about"it."Ill"call"him,"because"I"dont"want"him"toforget."You"
know,"Ill"tell"you"what."Let"me"call"him,"and,"uhmatter"of"fact,"after"I"leave"this"meeting,"Ill,"Ill"call"him"
and"ask"him"about"next"Thursday"or"Friday,"umwhat"you"say,"lunch"or"what?"
Tyron"Ali:"Lunch"or"dinner.""Next"Thursday"or"Friday.""Your"call"man."
Ron"Waters:"All"right"well"find"out."Well"check"with"him."See"what,"wha""you"know,"which"works"for"
him."
Tyron"Ali:"Ok."And"the"other"piece"is"that"I"did"get"the,"uh,"the"study"back"from"the"PUC."So"++"
Ron"Waters:"Ok."
Tyron"Ali:"++"the"sooner"we"get"this"thing"done,"the"better"well"all"be."
Ron"Waters:"Ok."
Tyron"Ali:"All"right?""
Ron"Waters:"Ok."
Tyron"Ali:"So"just"call"me"and"let"me"know"because"Im"puttin"my"schedule"together"for"next"week."Plus"
weve"got"that"Sam"Staton"thing"next"Thursday,"right?"
Ron"Waters:"Yeah,"thats"next,"uh,"thats"the"17th"+"is"that"Thursday"or"Friday?"Wait,"what"day"is"that"on?"
I"think"its"the"17th."[Inaudible]"++"
"
3:10"
Tyron"Ali:"The,"the"thing"for,"for,"a""ju""just"out"of"curiosity,"cause"I"wanna"make"sure"I"do"this"the"right"
way."Um,"for,"for"Tolliver,"right?"What"you"want"me"to"do?"You"want"me"to"bring"cash?"Or"you"want"me"
to"bring"a"check?"
[4-second"Pause]"
2"
"
T""63"Part"2"+"March"10,"2011"
Ron"Waters:"Umyou"know"what?"Uhif"you"do"cash,"it"would"help"me"out."I"gonna"tell"you"why."Yeah,"
yeah,"do"it"that"way."Do"it"that"way."Ok?"
Tyron"Ali:"Do"cash?"
Ron"Waters:"Yeah,"yeah,"do"it"that"way."
Tyron"Ali:"Ok."
Ron"Waters:"[Inaudible]"because,"umyeah,"if"you"could"do"that."Thatd"be"better,"ok?"Lets"just"do"it"
that"way."
Tyron"Ali:"And,"and"dont"forget"man."Tell"Vince,"you"know,"this"is"a"partnership"deal."You"know?"
Ron"Waters:"I"know."
Tyron"Ali:"We"will""we"+"you,"you"know"what"Im"saying?""All"right?"
Ron"Waters:"Yeah.""Okay."
Tyron"Ali:"And"were"still"on"for"Monday"night""7:30,"right?"
Ron"Waters:"Absolutely!"
Tyron"Ali:"Ok."All"right,"my"friend."I"will,"uh"++"
Ron"Waters:"All"right."
Tyron"Ali:"Ill"see"you"on"Monday,"ok?"Have"a"good"weekend."
Ron"Waters:"[Inaudible]"
Tyron"Ali:"All"right"Ron."
Ron"Waters:"You"too."
Tyron"Ali:"Buh"bye."
[Call-ended]"
Investigator"Claude"Thomas:"The"preceding"call,"telephone"conversation"between"CI"2010+01"and"Rep"
RW"was"in"response"to"a"return"call"to"Rep"RW"at"(267)"246+6185."And"that"is"in"reference"to"a"previous"
conversation"regarding"support"solicited"by"RW."Todays"date"is"Thursday,"March"10th,"year"2011."
Current"time"is"16""excuse"me""18:22"hundred"hoursand"this"is"in"reference"to"Investigation"number"
36+622."This"call""or"recording"is"now"being"deactivated."
3"
"
T"64%March%14,%2011%
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PHILADELPHIA DISTRICT ATTORNEY'S OFFICE
3 Penn Square
19107-3499
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Transcription of Audio File:
T-64 March 14th, 2011
13
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Transcribed by:
Linda M. Lee, Notary Public
T"64%March%14,%2011%
(March 14, 2011)
2
3
TYRON ALI:
UNKNOWN SPEAKER:
TYRON ALI:
(Rustling background noise)
TYRON ALI: Hey, man. How are you doing?
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
10
RON WATERS:
11
TYRON ALI:
12
We good?
Mmm-hmm.
Okay.
All right.
Listen -Did you call me back?
Yeah, I did.
let me ask you a question real quick.
13
RON WATERS:
14
TYRON ALI:
This, this little
situation for Thursday night, right?
16
or --
17
RON WATERS:
18
TYRON ALI:
Thursday
Uh-huh.
-- Friday for the fundraiser
19
for Judge -- what's the guy's name?
20
his last name?

RON WATERS:
This uh --
Uh-huh.
15
21
Let me,
Elkin whats
Tolliver. That's Friday night.
T"64%March%14,%2011%
TYRON ALI:
It's Friday.
Okay.
Listen,
did you want me to bring that for you so you
could take care of him or do you want me to --
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
6
7
8
9
10
RON WATERS:
matter to me.
Yeah, either way.
TYRON ALI:
All right. So you want me
to just bring it for you then?
12
TYRON ALI:
13
RON WATERS:
14
TYRON ALI:
it to you. See you.
TYRON ALI:
Yeah, you can do that.

All right.
Okay?
I'll bring
Bye.
He didn't give the answer I
was hoping for.
18
I asked the question period

AGENT:
All right.
All right, man.
17
19
It don't
I mean, whatever is easiest for you.
RON WATERS:
16
-- just give it to him and
he can take care of you?
11
15
Yeah --
He said, you know, you can give it to me.
This is uh, Claude Thomas, Senior
20
Supervisory Special Agent, Pennsylvania Office of
21
Attorney General, A Certification Number 118.
T"64%March%14,%2011%
This is a postamble on today's date being
Monday, March 14th, year 2011.
1919 hours.
Current time is
That recording -- that preceding
recording was between CI 2010-01 and Rep RW in
reference to Investigation Number 36-622.
communications was a follow-up to a previous
communication on Thursday, March 10th, 2011, as well
a preceding communications today, approximately
10
11
five minutes prior to this recording.

This tape is about to be deactivated at
12
1920 hours.
13
14th, 2011, Monday.
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That
And again on today's date being March
(End of recording.)
T"64%March%14,%2011%
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true and accurate transcription of the recordings
in the aforementioned matter.
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___________________________
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T""65""March"14,"2011"
Investigator"Claude"Thomas:"Claude"Thomas,"Senior"Supervisory"Special"Agent,"Pennsylvania"Office"of"
Attorney"General,"Badge"number"118,"A"Certification"number"is"A1418."Todays"date"is"Monday,"March"
the"14th,"year"2011."Current"time"is"19:38"hundred"hours."This"consensual"device"is"being""recording"
device"is"being"placed"on"CI"2010N01"in"reference"to"Investigation"number"36N622."CI"will"be"proceeding"
to"a"location"within"the"confines"of"the"City"of"Harrisburg,"County"Dauphin,"to"record"communications"
between"CI"and"Rep"RW,"in"reference"to"this"investigation"number."This"device"will"remain"active"until"it"
is"deactivated"by"myself"at"a"later"time."
[Background+noise,+traffic,+sirens]"
"
8:38"[Talking+to+wait+staff]"
Tyron"Ali:"Hi."Two"for"dinner"please?"
Female"Host:"Two?""Okay."
Tyron"Ali:"MmmNhmh."
Female"Host:"Right"this"way"please."
Unknown"Female:"How"are"you?"
Tyron"Ali:"Hey!"How"are"you?"
Female"Host:"Is"that"table"by"the"window"good"for"you?"
Tyron"Ali:"Hmm."
Female"Host:"Right"here?"
[Long+pause]"
Tyron"Ali:"Thanks.""And"that"sections"closed?"
Female"Host:"Yes."
Tyron"Ali:"Okay."
Female"Host:"Whoops."[Inaudible]"
Tyron"Ali:"[To+unknown]"Hey!"[To+Female+Host]"Thanks."
Female"Host:"[Inaudible]"that"way"your,"your"partner"probably"can"see"where"you"are."Okay?"
Tyron"Ali:"MmmNhmm."Thanks."
[Long+pause]"
1"
"
T""65""March"14,"2011"
Felicia:"Good"evening,"sir,"how"are"you?"
Tyron"Ali:"How"are"you?"
Felicia:"My"name"is"Felicia."Ill"be"taking"care"of"you"this"evening."And"I"see"you"are"waiting"for"someone."
Can"I"get"you"something"to"drink"besides"water"while"you"wait?"
Tyron"Ali:"No,"Im"fine"thanks."
Felicia:"Youre"welcome."For"our"soup"of"the"day,"we"have"a"vegetable"soup,"and"with"any"entre"the"
salad"bar"is"included."
Tyron"Ali:"Okay."
[Background+noise]"
"
15:55"
Tyron"Ali:"How"are"you"sir?"
Ron"Waters:"Im"all"right."
Tyron"Ali:"Nice"tie!"
Ron"Waters:"Thanks."[Laughs]"
Tyron"Ali:"How"you"doin?"Sit"here."
Ron"Waters:"All"right."How"you"feelin"man?"
Tyron"Ali:"Good."[sighs]"Long"day?"
Ron"Waters:"Oh"man."We"had"long"hearings.""People"come"up"and"talking"revenue,"um,"PUC,"um,"
different"groups."You"know,"this"is"very"interesting,"this"committee,"I"mean,"cause"you"get"to"have"so"
many"groups"that"rely"on"state"funding"for"their"existence"and"they"gonna"come"see"us"[inaudible].""
Tyron"Ali:"The"interesting"thing"is"that"even"though"the"proposed"budget,"some"people"think"its"gonna"
take"on"a"differentuh,"a"different"life."Because"theres"gonna"be"different"cuts,"from"one"to"the"next."
The"only"thing"thats"really"logical"is"from"the"Department"of"Public"Welfare"NN""
Ron"Waters:"Yeah."
Tyron"Ali:"NN"into"ECE."Anything"beyond"that"does"not"work."Does"not"work."Does"not"work."
Ron"Waters:"Yeah,"you"cant"just"take"from"those"programs."
Tyron"Ali:"Well,"theyre"gonna"take"from,"from"one"of"them."And"my"guess"is"that"the"eligible"poor"will"NN"
2"
"
T""65""March"14,"2011"
Ron"Waters:"Suffer"most."
Tyron"Ali:"[Laughs]"Well,"theyre"gonna"find"some"ways"to"make"them"illegible"[sic]"[laughs]"or"ineligible""
anyway."
Ron"Waters:"Well,"its"gonna,"its"gonna"give"new"definition"to"the"word."Cause"its"gonna"be"really"
rough"on"the"people"[inaudible]."I"mean,"its"bad"enough"for"people"to"go"out"and"really"work"full"time"
still"[inaudible]."
Tyron"Ali:"Im"just"curious"as"to"what"the"litmus"test"is"going"to"be"for""to"prove"ineligibility."And"I"dont"
know"how"they"even""how"you"would"even"begin,"because,"supposing"the"person"makes"five"percent"
above"the"threshold.""
Ron"Waters:"Right."
Tyron"Ali:"What"happens"then?"
Ron"Waters:"And"they"are."
Tyron"Ali:"And,"and"then"you"find"out"that"youve"got"several"other"issues,"right?"Youve"got"people"who"
typically"get"welfare"benefits,"are"receiving"cash"and"healthcare."
Ron"Waters:"Right."
Tyron"Ali:"But"theyre"also"receiving"LIHEAP"assistance"NN"
Ron"Waters:"Right."
Tyron"Ali:"NN"theyre"also"receiving,"uh,"daycare"assistance"
Ron"Waters:"Right."Yeah."
Tyron"Ali:"NN"and"in"some"situations"theyre"even"receiving,"ah,"food"subsidies."So"there"five"different"and"
unique"situations"that"come"about"when"you"change"the"litmus"test"for"the"eligible"poor."
Ron"Waters:"And"dont"forget,"some"of"them"get"subsidized"living."
Tyron"Ali:"Housing."Thats"right."PHA."Yep."
Ron"Waters:"So"you"got"people,"who,"without"all"those"subsidies,"you"gonna"have"more"homeless,"or"just"
you"gonna"have"more"and"more"families"living"together."""Theres""no"way"they"can"survive."
Tyron"Ali:"And,"and"then"wha""what"comes"out"of"that"are"a"number"of"other"social"problems."
Ron"Waters:"Yeah.""Oh,"absolutely,"yes."
"
18:47"
3"
"
T""65""March"14,"2011"
Felicia:"Scuse"me."Good"evening,"sir,"how"are"you?"
Ron"Waters:"Hi."Good!"How"you"doin?"
Felicia:"Im"doin"fine,"thank"you"and"welcome"to"Raspberries."My"names"Felicia."Ill"be"taking"care"of"you"
this"evening."
Ron"Waters:"Okay"Felicia."
Felicia:"Could"I"get"you"started"something"to"drink"besides"water?"
Ron"Waters:"Um,"yeah,"you"know,"I"want"some"hot"tea,""do"you"have"hot"tea"with"lemon?"
Felicia:"Some"hot"tea?"
Ron"Waters:"With"a"lemon?"Yeah."
Felicia:"For"you"sir?"
Tyron"Ali:"Um,"let"me"have"unsweetened"iced"tea."
Felicia:"[Inaudible]"salad"bar"up"there"and"our"soup"of"the"day"is,"um,"we"have"a"vegetable"soup.""
Ron"Waters:"Okay."
Felicia:"And"the"salad"bar"is"included"with"entre"and"its"only"like,"appetizer"or"sandwich."Its"an"
additional"five"dollars.""
Ron"Waters:"Okay."
Felicia:"Ill"get"your"drinks."
Tyron"Ali:"Thank"you."
Felicia:"Youre"welcome."
"
19:39"
Tyron"Ali:"Hey"man.""
Ron"Waters:"Whats"happenin?"
Tyron"Ali:"Tollivers"gonna"win?"
Ron"Waters:"Huh?"
4"
"
T""65""March"14,"2011"
Tyron"Ali:"Hes"gonna"win?"
Ron"Waters:"Who?"
Tyron"Ali:"Tolliver."
Ron"Waters:"Yeah!"When"he"was"an"incumbent""he"had,"um,"he"served,"um,"two"terms,"um"hes"only"uh,"
the"guys"sixty"one,"I"think,"so"hes"looking"to"serveHow"this"thing"work?"Is"it"six"year"terms?"Yeah,"six"
year"terms."So"hes"lookin"to"serve"one"more"term,"then"hes"gonna"think"if"he"wants"to"get"these"
portions"out"to""when"his"[inaudible]"reelection"[inaudible]"""
Tyron"Ali:"MmmNhmm."
Ron"Waters:"And"then"hell"have"three"more"years"before"hell"be"forced"by"law"to"retire."So"we"dont"
know"what"hes"gonna"do"if"he,"if"he"uh,"runs"again."
Tyron"Ali:"I"know"everybodys"really"looking"forward"to"those"ballot"positions."
Ron"Waters:"Yeah."Thats"in"Philly."
Tyron"Ali:"Yes."
Ron"Waters:"We"counted"twenty"two"judges"[inaudible]."
Tyron"Ali:"Yeah."Well"they"called"me"about"Marnie."
Ron"Waters:"Who?"
Tyron"Ali:"Marnie?"Donnas"daughter?"
Ron"Waters:"Donna"who?"
Tyron"Ali:"Donna"Aument."
Ron"Waters:"Oh."Shes"runnin"for","um"NN"
Tyron"Ali:"Traffic"Court."
Ron"Waters:"Yeah."She"made"a"major"blunder."If"N"I"think"this"is"the"one."I"was"at"Marian"Tascos"
announcement."
Ron"Waters:"And,"this""I"think"this"is"the"girl"youre""talkin"about."She"made"a"major"blunder"that"day."
First"of"all,"shes"at"Marian"Tascos"announcement,"and"theres"other"candidates"there"who"""you""show"
up"where"you"need"to"be.""She"gets"up"there"and"is"allowed"to"speak""I"think"she"was"there"to"speak"on"
behalf"of"her"mother,"and,"her"mothers"a"ward"leader,"right?"
5"
"
T""65""March"14,"2011"
Tyron"Ali:"Yes."
Ron"Waters:"Yeah,"okay,"she"gets"up"there"and"says,"This"might"not"be"the"proper"place"to"say"this""
and"then"she"goes"ahead"and"says"it"anyway."[Laughs]"
Tyron"Ali:""What"did"she"say?"
Ron"Waters:"Her"announcement,"NN"
Tyron"Ali:"What"did"she"say?"
Ron"Waters:"NNtalkin"about"her"candidacy."
Tyron"Ali:"Oh,"oh."Okay."
Ron"Waters:"So,"for"the"most"part"NN""
Tyron"Ali:"[to+wait+staff]"Thank"you."
Ron"Waters:"NN"I"mean,"thats"like"raining"on"somebody"elses"parade."
Tyron"Ali:"MmmNhmm."MmmNhmm."
Ron"Waters:"Everybody"was"there"for"Marian."Nobody"was"there"for,"for"her."If"she"would"not"have"
shown"up,"she"wouldnt"have"even"been"missing."So,"okay."The"last"time"I"was"here"I"got"[inaudible]"
black"tea."
"
22:13"
Felicia:"Are"you"gentlemen"ready"to"place"your"food"order?"You"still"need"some"time?"
Ron"Waters:"You"ready?"
Tyron"Ali:"Yeah.""
Ron"Waters:"Okay."
Tyron"Ali:"You"go"ahead."You"got"first."
Ron"Waters:"All"right."Im"gonna"try"this."This"right"here."Um,"you"know"what,"for"starters,"Id"like"to"try"
this,"the"chicken"and"dumpling"soup."
Felicia:"Okay."Cup"or"a"bowl?"
Ron"Waters:"Gimme"umgimme"a"bowl."Only"a"dollar"seventy."For"the"entre"
Tyron"Ali:"Get"whatever"you"want,"boss."
6"
"
T""65""March"14,"2011"
Ron"Waters:""Im"gonna"tryhm."Last"time"I"was"here,"I"think"I"had"the"salmon."And"now"Im"thinkin"NN"
Felicia:"Well,"they"changed"the"menu,"so"NN"
Ron"Waters:"Again."
Felicia:"Yeah."[Laughs]"
Ron"Waters:"This"city"
Felicia:"So"we"have"a"new"menu"
Ron"Waters:"All"right."Give"megive"me"the"tuna."
Felicia:"The"tuna?""
Ron"Waters:"Yeah,"grilled"tuna."
And"how"would"you"like"that"prepared?"Cause"I"know"some"people"like"it"well"done,"or"just"
likemedium?"
Ron"Waters:"Lets"go"with"medium.""
Felicia:"Medium?"
Ron"Waters:"Well,"only"if"I"can""I"like"med"N"what"do"you"call"it?"Um,"not"N"anything"medium"and"well"
done."What"would"that"be"called?"
Felicia:"Between"medium"and"well"done?"
Ron"Waters:"Yeah,"a"little"better"than"medium,"okay?"
Tyron"Ali:"Medium"well."
Ron"Waters:"Medium"well."I"like"the"way"that"sounds."You"ever"have"it"ordered"that"way"before?"You"
have?"
Felicia:"Thank"you"sir."
Ron"Waters:"Thank"you."
Tyron"Ali:"Um,"Ill"just"have"the"chicken."The"rotisserie"half"chicken?"Thats"fine."Thanks."
Felicia:"All"right,"and"that"comes"with"the"salad"bar."Would"you"like"me"to"bring"the"soup"out"first?"Or,"do"
you"want"the"salad"bar"first?"
Ron"Waters:"Yes,"first."I"dont"want"salad"bar."
7"
"
T""65""March"14,"2011"
Tyron"Ali:"Yeah."Thank"you."
Ron"Waters:"Do,"do"you"have"bread"you"could"bring"out?"Do"you"bring"out"any"bread"or"anything?"
Felicia:"Some"bread?"Its"up"at"the"salad"bar."
Ron"Waters:"Oh,"its"up"there"too?"Okay."
Felicia:"Ill"take"this"for"you."
Tyron"Ali:"You"know,"we"were,"we"were"actually""I"took"out"a"fellow"lobbyist"the"other"day?"
Ron"Waters:"Really?"
Tyron"Ali:"And,"uh,"she"was"saying,"she"said,"You"know"the"minute"I"have"to"get"up""Im"not"going"
anywhere."
Ron"Waters:"Yeah."
24:42"
Tyron"Ali:"[Laughs]"I"said,"I"know."I"know."Hey""where,"where,"where"you"parked?"Are"you"close"by?"
Lets"take"a"walk"for"a"second."
Ron"Waters:"Okay."
Tyron"Ali:"Let"me"do"this.""[To"Felicia]"Well"be"right"back,"okay"love?"
Felicia:"Okay."
Tyron"Ali:"Well"be"right"back."
[Background+noise]"
Tyron"Ali:"We"come"through"here,"couldnt"we?"Are"you"right"here?"
Ron"Waters:"Im"right"on"2nd"Street."
Tyron"Ali:"Okay."Well"walk"over"there"for"a"second."Too"many"people"in"here.""
Ron"Waters:""Okay.""
Tyron"Ali:""[Whistles]"So"hows"your"day"going"otherwise?"
Ron"Waters:"Oh,"fine."Fine."Ill"be"right"back"at,"at,"at"the"meetings"tomorrow""we"can"start"early"
tomorrow."[Inaudible]."
Tyron"Ali:"MmNhm."
Ron"Waters:"And"uh,"[inaudible]"tomorrow,"to"look"at"the"next"stages.""
8"
"
T""65""March"14,"2011"
Tyron"Ali:"I"might"be"up"here"at"nine"in"the"morning"myself."Nine"or"ten."
Ron"Waters:""Oh,"you"going"back"home?"
Tyron"Ali:"Oh"yeah."I"go"back"every"day."
Ron"Waters:"Oh"man!"I"didnt"know"that."
Tyron"Ali:"Uh"huh."
Ron"Waters:"But"you"got"a"ride,"so"that"makes"that"easy."
Tyron"Ali:"Yes,"yes."Yes."Oh,"you"did"find"a"little"spot."
Ron"Waters:"Yeah,"I"had"[Inaudible]"
"
25:52"
Tyron"Ali:"Its"better"over"here."We"uh,"you"know,"Ron,"we"support"you."But"if"you"say"support"Tolliver,"
okay."""
Ron"Waters:"Well,"he"needs"help."
Tyron"Ali:"Okay."
Ron"Waters:"Um,"right"now"hes"a"bit"[inaudible]"and"hes"having"this"event."The"figures"twentyNfive"
dollars."So"I"told"him"I"would""I"already"sent"one"check"for"a,"a"table."
Tyron"Ali:"Yeah."
Ron"Waters:"So"
Tyron"Ali:"Can"I"jump"up"here,"in"the"front?"
Ron"Waters:"Yeah."
Tyron"Ali:"All"right."You"got"some"mud"here."
Ron"Waters:"So,"I"wanna"go"ahead"on"that""oh"yeah,"thats"fine."This"stuff"right"here,"though,"I"started"
taking"this,"this"is"weight"control"stuff"right"here,"man."
Tyron"Ali:"Yeah,"I"hear"you."Its"too"much"a,"too"much""too"many"people"in"there."
Ron"Waters:"Okay."
Tyron"Ali:"This"is,"uh,"one,"two,"three,"four,"five,"six,"seven."You"count"that."Thats"seven"fifty."
Ron"Waters:"Whoa!"Damn!"
9"
"
T""65""March"14,"2011"
Tyron"Ali:"All"right?"
Ron"Waters:"What"is"NN"
Tyron"Ali:"Count"it"and"make"sure."
Ron"Waters:"Okay.""
[Alarm+dings]"
Ron"Waters:"Let"me"get"this"light"off"man."
Tyron"Ali:"Yeah."
[counting+money]"
[Music+starts+playing+loudly]"
Ron"Waters:"Thats"it?"
Tyron"Ali:"Uh"huh."
Ron"Waters:"My"man!"Shucksprecciate"you"my"brother!"
Tyron"Ali:"No"worries."
Ron"Waters:""Tollivers"gonna"be"in"great"shape!"Hes"gonna"be"happy"man,"you"know?"
Tyron"Ali:"Ooh."
Ron"Waters:"Heres"where"I"keep"my"receipts"up"here.""
Tyron"Ali:"Turn"that"down."Let"me"just"ask"you"one"thing:"
[Music+stops]"
Ron"Waters:"Uh"huh."
Tyron"Ali:"The"meeting"with"Vince.""
Tyron"Ali:"On,"uh""is"it"gonna"be""just"because"I"gotta"put"it"on"my"schedule."What"day"this"week"is"it"
gonna"be?"Do"you"know?"
Ron"Waters:"VinceuhIm"back"in"Philly"on"Thursday."Solet"me"call"him"now."
Tyron"Ali:"Okay.""
Ron"Waters:"What"we"gonna"talk"about,"um,"lunch"as"well"[inaudible]?"
10"
"
T""65""March"14,"2011"
Tyron"Ali:"Um,"well"take"him"to"The"Palm."You"know"what"I"mean?"
Ron"Waters:"All"right."Let"me"see"whats"good"for"him."
Tyron"Ali:"Or"to"the"Capital"Grille,"whichever."
Ron"Waters:"Oh."He"might"have"a"favorite,"downtown."
Tyron"Ali:"We"all"do."[Both+laugh]"
Ron"Waters:"But,"you"know,"The"Palm."I"havent"eaten,"at"The"Palm,"man,"in"probably,"I"dont"know,"I"
dont"even"know"if"I"ate"there"last"year."Used"to"eat"there"all"the"time."
Tyron"Ali:"Well,"lets"go."
Ron"Waters:"Yeah."I"like"the"food"there."Soup,"everything."They"got"good"food."
Tyron"Ali:"Yes."
"
28:40"
[On+the+phone+with+Vince+Fenerty]"
Ron"Waters:"Hey"Vince."All"right."How"you"feelin"my"brother?...I"wanna"uh,"check"wit,"check"wit"you"on"
your"schedule"for"this"week."You"have"some"free"time"maybe"later"on"in"the"week,"like"Thursday?"Go"to,"
go"to"lunch?...Nothin!"Just"wanna,"uh,"member"I"was"talking"to"you"last"week"about"the,"um,"the,"uh,"
the"businessman"I"wanted"to"introduce"you"to,"about"your,"um,"uncollectibles"and"stuff?..Yeah."Like"for"
you"to"meet"him"and"um,"noNnothin"other"than""no,"no,"no"pressure,"no"strings"attached,"no"nothin."
Just"like"for"you"to"meet"him."Okay?...Okay."Im"lookin"at,"Im"up"here"Monday,"Tuesday,"and"
Wednesday,"so"how"about"like,"Thursday"or"Friday?...Okay"my"man"All"right.OkayWhats"up"man?"
You"uptightYou"uptight?...Okay"[Laughs]."Aint"nobody"up"here."The"Park"Auth""I"mean,"they"aint"
fuckin"with"the"Park"Authority,"up"here"or"anything"right?...All"right."Cause"we"met"with"the"PUC"today"
and"they"clearly"said"they"dont"have"anything"to"do"with"the"taxi"cabs"in"Philly"man,"you"know,"so"we"
was"like,"GoodOkayOkay."You"know"I"do."If"I"found"out"somethin"man,"you"know."Okay?...All"right"
Vince,"take"care"manAll"rightAll"rightgood"enough."Thanks."All"right."
[Call+ends]"
Ron"Waters:"Hes"gonna"call"me"tomorrow"morning."He,"hes"not"at"the"office""hes"gotta"check"his"
schedule."
Tyron"Ali:"Okay."Okay.""
[Car+door+opens]"
Tyron"Ali:"Besides"that"seven"fifty,NN"
11"
"
T""65""March"14,"2011"
[Car+door+closes]"
Tyron"Ali:"NNwhat"else"could"we"do"for"Tolliver?"
Ron"Waters:"Thats"all"for""I"mean"right"now,"[sighs]"I"mean,"Ill"talk"to"his"campaign"ma""matter"fact,"
thats"who"I"miss,"um,"Ill"make"sure"she"got"that"check."Um,"but"um,"other"than"that""I"dont"know"what"
else"hes"got"goin"on."""(30:41)"
Tyron"Ali:"How"much"is"he"raisin"total?"
[Phone+rings]"
Ron"Waters:"I"dont"know.""
Tyron"Ali:"Okay."
Ron"Waters:"Well"find"out"this"week."
Tyron"Ali:"Oh"NN""
Ron"Waters:"You"know,"last"week"was"the"day"to"finally,"um,"you"know,"who""whos"really"a"legitimate"
candidate"when"people"file."
Tyron"Ali:"Yes.""
Ron"Waters:"I"wanna"find"out"who""find"out"from"her"if"anybody"else"filed."Uh,"okay,"well."But"
Automated"message:"Please"leave"your"message"for"2"""
[Call+ended]"
Ron"Waters:"Thats"alright,"maybe"shes"home."
[Phone+rings]"
"
31:43"
[On+speakerphone]"
Audrey:"Hello?"
Ron"Waters:"Hey."Audrey."
Audrey:"Hey!"
Ron"Waters:"I"miss"your"call?"
Audrey:"Uh,"yeah,"but"its"okay,"I"was"on"my"way"to,"um,"Paulas,"to"pick"up"the"check?"
12"
"
T""65""March"14,"2011"
Ron"Waters:"Yeah."
Audrey:"And"then"I"thought"about"it,""I"said,"Am"I"supposed"to"give"her"the"tickets,"or"give"em"to"you?"
So,"I"just"left"a"message"sayin"well,"Ill"ask"her,"but,"you"know,"I"figured"youd"probably"want"them,"so,"
sure"enough,"you"know,"she"said,"Oh"yeah,"no,"no,"no,"give"them"to"him."So"
Ron"Waters:"Okay."
Audrey:"I"got"the"check"NN"
Ron"Waters:"All"right,"Okay."
Audrey:"NN"and,"uh,"so"when"are"you""where"are,"where"are"you"gonna"be"tomorrow?"I"can"get"you"the"
tickets."
Ron"Waters:"Harris""Harrisburg."Just"hold"em.""Ill"see"you"when"I"get"back,"Ill"be"in"here""Ill"get"back"
on"Thursday."
Audrey:"Oh"okay."
Ron"Waters:""Hows"he"doin"though?"
Audrey:"Did"you"get""did"you,"uh"tell"people,"so"theyll""know,"so"that"at"the"last"minute"you"wont"be"
havin"people"to"fill"the"tickets?"
Ron"Waters:"No,"dont"worry."I""those""Ill"get"rid"of""Ill"be"able"NN"
Audrey:"Okay."
Ron"Waters:"Ill"find"ten"people"to"give"those"tickets"to."Im"keepin"two"and"Ill"give"the"rest"of"em"aw""I"
only"need"to"give"out"eight"after"that."
Audrey:"Okay."
Ron"Waters:"Hows"he"makin"out?""
Audrey:"Thats"an"improvement!"Ill"see"you"Thursday!"
Ron"Waters:"Hows"things"goin"as"far"as"his"campaign?"
Audrey:"Great!"We"went"out"Delaware"County"uh,"and"we"had"a"meeting,"yesterday"out"in"Wallingford?"
Ron"Waters:"Okay."
Audrey:"You"know,"wannato"be"seen,"we"have"to"be"seen,"we"as"committee"people,"you"know,"we"try"
to"go"to"those."And"sure"enough,"who"was"there?"Keith"was"there"
Ron"Waters:"Okay."
13"
"
T""65""March"14,"2011"
Audrey:"Asher"was"there,"and"then,"who"comes"struttin"in"late,"but"Delores?"And"she"didnt"even"sit"in"
the"same"area."She"walked"right"passed"us."
Ron"Waters:"Mm."Good."Let"her"sit"NN"
Audrey:"MmmNhmm."
Ron"Waters:"Let"her"sit"out"in"the,"in"the"pasture"for"it."
Audrey:"MmmNhmm."So"we"were"there""so,"so,"you"know,"it"was"voting"for,"um,"making,"uh,"nu""uh,"
recommendations"for"the"people"to"be"on"the"county"ballot,"so"it"wasnt"about"local."And"then"Anthony,"
uh,"was"there."He"gave"a"lil"pep"rally"speech."
Ron"Waters:"Okay."
Audrey:"You"know"and"[inaudible]said,"and"I"asked"him"a"question","did"you"hear"what"Anthony"said?"He"
said"he"dont"get"involved"in"the,"uh"primary"politics,"so"
Ron"Waters:"Wait."Anthony,"Anthony""you"talkin"about"Senator"Williams?"
Audrey:"Yup."
Ron"Waters:"He"said"he"dont"get"involved"with"primaries?"
Audrey:"Yup."He"said"he"doesnt"deal"with"primary"politics."So"I"said"""
[Ron+Waters+and+Tyron+Ali+laugh]""
Audrey:"Thats"what"he"said."
Ron"Waters:"This"guy"is[laughs]"I"cant"believe"that."I"bet"if"it"was"his"primary,"he"dont"want"nobody"
tellin"him"that"shit."[Car+door+opens]"Thats"all"right."
Audrey:"Oh,"I"know,"too,"but"NN"
Ron"Waters:"[Laughs]"
Audrey:"NN"he"looked"around"the"audience"and"he"saw"NN"
Ron"Waters:"All"of""yeah."
Audrey:"NN"who"he"saw"NN"
Ron"Waters:"Yeah."
Audrey:"NNI"dont"know."
Ron"Waters:"Thats"what"he"did."
14"
"
T""65""March"14,"2011"
Audrey:"And"thats"why"he"said"it."
Ron"Waters:"No."You"hold"your"ground""whoever"you"are,"be"proud"of"who"you"are."You"cant"be,"you"
cant"be"playin"wishy"washy."Thats"what"happened"to"NN""
Audrey:"You"know"what?"
Ron"Waters:"NN"these"guys"last"year,"they"tried"to"act"Republican"[exits+vehicle]"to"Republicans"and"you"
cant"do"that.""
Audrey:"[Inaudible]"
Ron"Waters:"Democrat"has"to"be"Democrat"and"Republican"has"to"be"Republican."[Car+door+closes]"Stay"
true"to"yourself."You"know,"you"aint"gotta"worry"about"that""wishy"washy""that"girl"up"there"right"
now,"Margo"Davidson."Thats"what"her"problem"is,"she"doin"the"same"thing.""
[Ron+Waters+and+Tyron+Ali+walk+back+to+restaurant]"
Audrey:"[Inaudible]"too"much,"you"know?"
Ron"Waters:"Yeah."He"dont"get"involved"with"primaries?"
Ron"Waters:"Yeah."
Ron"Waters:"Yeah."
Ron"Waters:"Wow."Thats,"thats""sad."Im,"Im"sorry."Well,"why"was"he"there"then?"I"mean,"cause"if"
thats"what"he"had"to"say,"why"would"he"
Audrey:"Uh,"I"dont"know"[Inaudible]party"told"him"to"get,"you"know""pep"rally."[Inaudible]"said"that"um,"
the"Republicans"[Inaudible]"Bob"Brady"before"him"NN""
Ron"Waters:"Well"NN""
Audrey:"NN"You"know,"they"came"in"together."
Ron"Waters:"Well,"I"know"Bob"Brady"aint"like"that."
Audrey:"[Inaudible]"St."Pattys"Day"party"together."
Ron"Waters:"Okay."Okay."All"right."So"everythings"okay"with"him?"
Audrey:"Yeah,"everythings,"everythings"good."
15"
"
T""65""March"14,"2011"
Ron"Waters:"Okay."All"right.""
Audrey:"Everythings"good."
Ron"Waters:"All"right."I"just""somebody"was"askin"me"if"he"was"okay."I"just"was"checkin."
Audrey:"Yeah,"Everythings"lovely."[Inaudible]"people"goin"out."Everybodys"talkin"
Tyron"Ali:"Might"as"well"get"the"bread.""
Ron"Waters:""All"right."All"right,"good."
Tyron"Ali:"[To"Ron"Waters]"Which"one"do"you"want?""
Ron"Waters:""[To"Audrey]"[Inaudible]"
Tyron"Ali:"[To"Unknown"Female]"Wheres"your"bread?""
Unknown"Female:""Excuse"me?"
Tyron"Ali:"Bread?"
Unknown"Female:"Bre""oh,"its"on"the"other"side."Um,"under"the"light?"
Tyron"Ali:"Oh","okay."Thanks."[pause]"[To"self]See,"the"other"piece"is"likeI"guess"you"cut"it"yourself?"[To"
Unknown"Female]"Do"you"cut"this"yourself?""
Unknown"Female:"Yes,"you"cut"it"yourself"sir."
Tyron"Ali:"Oh,"okay."
"
36:31"
Tyron"Ali:"With"regard"to"NN""
Tyron"Ali:"Yeah,"man,"were""Im"not"doin"this"again."
Ron"Waters:"Yeah."
Tyron"Ali:"Umis"that"all"right"for"you?"This"amount?"
Ron"Waters:"Yeah."[Inaudible]"
16"
"
T""65""March"14,"2011"
Tyron"Ali:"No,"I"dont"do"stuff"like"this."Ron,"to"be"quite"honest"with"you,"I"dont"even"go"to"the"grocery"
store,"brother."
Ron"Waters:"Yeah."
Tyron"Ali:"No."
Ron"Waters:"Yeah."
Tyron"Ali:"Its"delivered."So,"I"dont"know."Some"things"I"think"Ive"passed.""
Ron"Waters:"One"of"these"NN"
Tyron"Ali:"This"is"good"for"you?"This"is"for"you."
Ron"Waters:"Okay."Thank"you."
Tyron"Ali:"Im"not"eating""youre"welcome.""
"
37:00"
Tyron"Ali:"When"you,"uh,"when"you"talk"to"Tolliver,"I"mean,"that"five"hundred,"that"was"for"you,"you"
know"that."
Ron"Waters:"Thank"you.""
Tyron"Ali:"Yeah,"no"worries."But"when"you,"when"you"talk"to"him,"I""make"sure"Ill"meet"him.""
Ron"Waters:"Okay."
Tyron"Ali:"You"know"what"I"mean?"In"case"our"boys"need"somethin"
Ron"Waters:"Okay."
Tyron"Ali:"out"there."
Ron"Waters:"Okay."
Tyron"Ali:"And"then,"you"can,"uh;"you"can"give"him"the"two"fifty."Know"what"Im"sayin?"
Ron"Waters:"Okay."
Tyron"Ali:"Or"however"you"break"it"up."Its,"its"up"to"you,"really."Cause"we"deal"with"you."
Ron"Waters:"Okay."I"buy"it."You"know"what?"
Tyron"Ali:"Mm."Guess"who"called"me?"
17"
"
T""65""March"14,"2011"
Ron"Waters:"Whos"that?"
Tyron"Ali:"Tommy"Blackwell."
Ron"Waters:"Whats"goin"on"with"him?"
Tyron"Ali:"Hes"getting"ready"to"run"up"against"Vanessa"Hodge."
Ron"Waters:"He"gonna"come"at"her"again?"
Tyron"Ali:"You"think"Im"playin?"
Ron"Waters:"He"aint"NN"
Tyron"Ali:"Im"tellin"you."Listen"NN""
Ron"Waters:"He"said"that"before."And"then"did"nothin."
Tyron"Ali:"Listen"man."The"older"lady"that"Jannie"deals"with"over"there?"I"dont"know"her"name."
Tyron"Ali:"She"um,"she"went,"she"went"and"told"a"couple"folks"that"Vanessa"wont"come"to"community"
meetings."
Ron"Waters:"She"dont?"
Tyron"Ali:"I"know."
Ron"Waters:"She"said"she"dont"come"to"community"meetings?"
Tyron"Ali:"Yeah."Thats"what"she"did."She"said,"Vanessa""[long+pause]"[Laughs]""said""[Laughs]"N"
running"joke."
Tyron"Ali:"Nah,"no,"no."Its"a"running"joke"between"NN""
Ron"Waters:"Okay."
Tyron"Ali:"NN"she"and"I."But,"that,"thats"gonna"be"funny"to"watch."
Ron"Waters:""I"dont"know"man."He""you"know,"when"he,"when"he,"when"he,"when"he"did"not"file"his"
petitions"right,"and"then"he"ran,"uh,"and"then"he"said,"Well,"Im"still"runnin."Um,"Im"gon"be""Im"gonna"
run,"um,"as"an"independent."
18"
"
T""65""March"14,"2011"
Ron"Waters:"And"thats"what""fortunately,"it"would"have"been"a"good"time"to"run"as"an"independent"
because"there"was"no"Presidential"Election,"and"you"know,"[inaudible]"thered"be"long"lines"NN"
Tyron"Ali:"Mmm""hmm."
Ron"Waters:""NN"at"the"polling"places,"meaning"that,"you"could"have""if"you"got"a"crew"set"up,"you""N"at"
these"polling"places","they"could"be"instructing"the"people"as"they"vote"on"how"to"do"a"write""in."Cause"
thats"how"you"have"to"run"a"write""in."
Ron"Waters:""Said,"Yeah,"man,"Im"gonna"get"with"a"staff,"teach"people"how"to"do"it,"and"all"that"stuff,"
man."Yeah,"Ima"be"already"down"there"talkin,"at"the,"um,"Union"Hall,"333"Union"Hall."Im"like,"okay,"that"
makes"sense."Nothin"man."See,"what"happened"to"himunless"somebody"gonna"help"him""he"lost"his"
sponsors."But"his"sponsor"was[inaudible]."
Tyron"Ali:"Uh,"theres"a"little"bit"of"a"little"situation"takin"place.""I"dont"know"all"the"details,"but"when"I"
do,"which"will"be"probably"Thursday"or"Friday,"Ill"letcha"know."
Ron"Waters:"Okay."Okay."
Felicia:"Its"very"hot."
Ron"Waters:"Okay."
Felicia:"Enjoy."
Ron"Waters:"Okay."Thank"you."
"
39:49"
Tyron"Ali:"The"piece"NN"
Ron"Waters:"Okay,"so"NN"
Tyron"Ali:"NN"the"piece"that,"that""I"hope"that,"uh,"I"hope"he"understandssee,"this"the"thing:"and"I"dont"
know,"even"though"Fenerty"might"be"Executive"Director"of"the"Parking"Authority,"I"dont"think"he"
understands"this."
Ron"Waters:"MmmN"hmm."
Tyron"Ali:"You"have"tickets"that"are"current"
Ron"Waters:"MmmN"hmm."
19"
"
T""65""March"14,"2011"
Tyron"Ali:"but"need"to"be"collected."What"do"I"mean"by"that?"Theyre"less"than"fourteen"days"old"or"
less"than"ten"days"old."
Ron"Waters:"Right."
Tyron"Ali:"They"need"to"be"serviced.""
Ron"Waters:"Right."
Tyron"Ali:"You"have"the"collectibles"for"thirty"days"NN"
Ron"Waters:"Yeah."
Tyron"Ali:"NN"you"have"ninety"days,"you"have"a"hundred"and"eighty"days."
Ron"Waters:"Right."
Tyron"Ali:"And"then"you"have"the"other"kinds"of"fines."Like,"for"red"light,"parkin"in"a"handicap"spot,"
parking"in"a"loading"dock"
Ron"Waters:"Right."
Tyron"Ali:"Beyond"the"normal"thirty"day""thirty"minute"allotment."
Ron"Waters:"Right."
Tyron"Ali:"So"therea"number"of"things,"if"he"wanted"to"give"us"a"contract"
Ron"Waters:"MmmNhmm."
Tyron"Ali:"There"a"number"of"areas"he"can"select"from."
Ron"Waters:"Right."
Tyron"Ali:"And"Im"really"countin"on"you"to"kinda"move"him"in"that"direction."
Ron"Waters:"Well"we"gonna"meet"with"himhes"gonna"call"me"tomorrow"morning,"he"saidwhen"he"
gets"in"the"office"set"up"his"schedule"[inaudible]"hell"call"me"back."Hell"let"me"know"NN""
Tyron"Ali:"But"can"you"talk"to"him?"[Laughs]"
Ron"Waters:"Listen."I"was"working"at"that"job"when"he"was"just"a"booter"himself,"man.""
Tyron"Ali:"Oh"wow!"Oh"so"youve"known"him"for"a"long"time."
Ron"Waters:"Long"time!"
Tyron"Ali:"Okay.""
20"
"
T""65""March"14,"2011"
Ron"Waters:"Like,""I"dont"even"gotta"tell"him"my"name"on"the"call."I"mean,"he"got"me"on"speed"dial,"I"got"
him"[inaudible]."We"could"[Inaudible]"on"girls"together."[Both+laugh]"
Tyron"Ali:"Thats"good.""
Ron"Waters:"Yeah."
Tyron"Ali:"You"know,"I"wanna,"I"want""you,"you"can"understand"this.""
Ron"Waters:"Right."
Tyron"Ali:"I"want"to"shine"for"my"client."
Ron"Waters:"MmmNhmm.""(41:43)"
Tyron"Ali:"Because,"uh,"Cur""Curtis"Thomas"told,"uh,"Rocco"NN"
Tyron"Ali:"NNhe"said,"You"know,"you"cant"have"everything"now."You"know,"Im"one"of"only"two"or"three"
guys"who"are"from"Philly."I"mean"really,"from"Philly,"doin"the"lobbyin"piece."There"is"nobody"else."
Number"one,"those"guys"dont"have"those"resources."Number"two,"they"dont"have"the"relationships,"
you"know?"
Ron"Waters:"Well,"most"of"the"ones"I"know,"dont"have"the"resources,"and,"um,"umand"most"of"the"
ones"that"arent,"arent"really"no,"they"not"from"Philly."Im"thinking"about"the"ones"that"we"used"to"
deal"with"us"a"lot"was"Wodjaks"people"NN"
Tyron"Ali:"Yeah."
Ron"Waters:"NN"course,"you"know,"look"at"Holly"
Tyron"Ali:"Holly,"John,"and"Tab."
Ron"Waters:"Yeah."Tab"NN"
Tyron"Ali:"The"dynamic"trio."
Ron"Waters:""NN"Tab"left."
Ron"Waters:"[inaudible]"and"hes"somewhere"in"D.C."now."
Tyron"Ali:"Hes,"uh,"Director"of"Public"Policy"for"Verizon."
21"
"
T""65""March"14,"2011"
Tyron"Ali:"Yeah."And"now"theyve"got"that"new"guy,"uh,"Lawrence?"As"his,"uh,"replacement"over"at"
Temple."
Ron"Waters:"Okay."
Tyron"Ali:"So"theres"no"realI"mean,"John"Hawkins"is"John"Hawkins,"and"Holly"is"Holly."You"know?"
Tyron"Ali:"But"in"terms"of"guy"being"from"North"Philadelphia,"lobbyingits"unheard"of."[Laughs]."
Tyron"Ali:"Even"when"I"was"Director"of"Government"Affairs"at"the"law"firm,"like,"there"is"nobody"else.""
Ron"Waters:"Right."
Tyron"Ali:"You"know"what"I"mean?"
Ron"Waters:"No."And"most"of"the"guys"dont"really"have"use"of"resources."I"think,"like,"like"Ernie"Delco,"
you"know,"who,"was,"um,"he"seemed"to"me,"for"the"most"part"N""you"didnt"know"where"he"was""who"he"
was"workin"for,"aint"nobody"really"claimin"him."Um,"I"think"his"wife"had"a"lot"on"the"ball."Yeah,"but"
youre"right."None"of"those"guys"really"had"a"lot"of"some"of"the"resources."
Tyron"Ali:"And"were"registered."Im"licensed."I"mean,"were"just"tryin"to"find"our"way."You"know,"
because"at"the"end"of"the"day,"look."What"are"we"tryin"to"do?"Bring"jobs"back"to"Philly."
Ron"Waters:"Right."
Tyron"Ali:"And"I"know"that"sounds"a"little"strange"but"it"is"what"it"is."
Tyron"Ali:"And"if"we"can"benefit"from"the"employment,"our"folks"who"are"otherwise"unemployed"or"
underemployed?"Thats"key."
Ron"Waters:"I"agree."Now,"going"back"now,"you"said"Tommys"gonna"run"again?"
Tyron"Ali:"Yes."
Ron"Waters:"You""I"know"somebodys"comin"after"her,"I"know"that,"because"
Tyron"Ali:"Yeah."
Ron"Waters:"you"know,"um"NN""
Tyron"Ali:"Can"you"do"NN""
Ron"Waters:""NN"Sharif"would"want"to"do"it"again,"but"he"cant,"because"NN"
22"
"
T""65""March"14,"2011"
Tyron"Ali:"Hes"got"his"own"issues"now."Part"of"the"problem"is"that"the"facilitation"of"the"contracts"outta"
HUD."HUDs"rebuttal"was"that,"uh,"he"made"a"statement"that"his"contractsfor"the"law"firm"had"come"
through"HUD."HUDs"rebuttal"was"that"they"had"no"idea"about"any"contracts"for"his"law"firm."They"found"
out,"after"doing"a"little"investigating,"that"it"had"come"through"PHA."
Tyron"Ali:"So"theres"a"seemingly"conflict"of"interest,"because"NN"
Ron"Waters:"NNBecause"of"his"dad."
Tyron"Ali:"Well"not"only"his"dad,"but"he"sits"on"PHAs"board."
Ron"Waters:"Oh,"I"didnt"know"that."
Tyron"Ali:"Yeah!"Sharif""Sharifs"dad"assigned"him"that,"that"position"when"he"was"between,"uh,"
between"jobs."He"was"at"Wolf"Block,"and"then"they"let"him"go.""
Ron"Waters:"Right."
Tyron"Ali:"And"now,"you"know,"between""while"he"was"in"that"transitional"period,"they"put"him"on"the"
board"of"PHA."
Ron"Waters:"I"know"he"was"working""I"know"he"was"working"for"that""it"was"something"dealing"with"
housing,"but"it"was"with"the"um,"with"the"DAP"program?"
Tyron"Ali:"Okay."
Ron"Waters:"Or"somethin"where"he"was"working"with"Tony"Lewis."Where"Tony"Lewis"used"to"work"NN"
Tyron"Ali:"Yeah."Its"not,"its"not""it,"it,"its""DAP"program"through"something"called"HADV""the"Housing"
Association"for"Delaware"Valley."
Ron"Waters:"That"what"you"talkin"bout?"That"NN"
Tyron"Ali:"Well"he"was"an"honorary"member"of"the"board"as"well."
Ron"Waters:"Oh,"okay."Okay."
Tyron"Ali:"You"know?"It"was"actually"Sharif,"Tony"and"Tab.""
Ron"Waters:"Right."
Tyron"Ali:"Yeah."
Ron"Waters:"Okay."
Tyron"Ali:"Tab"was"actually,"uh,"honorary"Chair."
23"
"
T""65""March"14,"2011"
Ron"Waters:"Okay."
Tyron"Ali:"Thats"how,"you"know,"we"had"gotten"some,"uh,"communications"with"uh,"with"Tony."
Tyron"Ali:"Cause"at"one"point,"I"was"going"to"partner"up,"uh,"one"nonNprofit"that"we"were"involved"with"
"Ron"Waters:"Right."
Tyron"Ali:"NN"with"his""with"their"nonNprofit.""
Ron"Waters:"Okay."
Tyron"Ali:"But"the"money"was"drying"up"so"quickly,"we"knew"what"was"coming."
Ron"Waters:"Yeah."
Tyron"Ali:"We"scrapped"the"idea"because"we"couldnt""wouldnt"be"able"to""even"if"we"funded"it"
initially,"which"I"thought"I"would"do"
Ron"Waters:"MmNhm."
Tyron"Ali:"Uh,"I"wasnt"prepared"to"sustain"it.""
Tyron"Ali:"Cause"it"would"of"taken"too"much"money"to"deal"N""
Tyron"Ali:"And"then"we"couldnt"figure"out"who"are"corporate"partners"would"be,"and"time,"and""its"
always"some"kind"of"an"issue."
Ron"Waters:"Okay."Okay."
"
46:43"
Tyron"Ali:"Dawn"Tancredi""you"talk"to"her?"You"dont"deal"with"her,"do"you?""
Ron"Waters:"UnhNunh."
Tyron"Ali:"This"girl"wants"to"be"a"judge"so"badly."
24"
"
T""65""March"14,"2011"
Ron"Waters:"Oh"yeah?"She"runnin"this"time?"
Tyron"Ali:"Yup."But"see,"heres"the"problem:"I"dont"know"anybody"that"knows"her."Now,"if"she"sent"
somebody"to"come"talk"to"me"NN"
Tyron"Ali:"NN"butI"like"to"know."You"know?"If"I"dont"know,"then"I"say"so"and"then"I"move"ahead."
Ron"Waters:"Okay."
Tyron"Ali:"Where"is"this"thing"Friday"night,"anyway?"So,"well"be"together"most"of"the"week"then,"
because"NN"
Ron"Waters:"[Inaudible]"yeah"
Tyron"Ali:"NN"well"be"at"the"Staten"stuff"NN"
Ron"Waters:"Thats"on"Thursday."
Tyron"Ali:"Yeah."
Felicia:"Scuse"me."Would"you"like"some"more"hot"water?"For"your"tea?"Another"tea"bag?"
Ron"Waters:"I"think"I"would."
Felicia:"You"okay?"
Ron"Waters:"I"think"I"would."Yes."
Ron"Waters:"Yes,"um,"more"hot"water"and"the"same"tea."
Felicia:"Okay."
Ron"Waters:"That"was"the,"uh,"the"red"one."
Felicia:"The"red."
Ron"Waters:"Yup."
Felicia:"Okay."And"can"I"take"your"bowl"away"for"you?""
Ron"Waters:"Absolutely."
25"
"
T""65""March"14,"2011"
Felicia:"Thank"you"kindly."
[Long+pause]"
"
47:49"
Ron"Waters:"Um,"so"what"are"you"doin?"Are"you"workin"on"any"judges?"
Tyron"Ali:"We"have""we"had,"uh,"one"little"situation"runninyou"know,"I"only""Im"only"lookin"for"
things"that"can"benefit"our"clients."
Ron"Waters:"Okay."
Tyron"Ali:"You"know?"Um,"like"a"Traffic"Court"Judge,"yes."Uh,"Common"Pleas,"okay""if"a"friend"asks"me."
Who""go"head."
Ron"Waters:"Who"you"got"for"Traffic"Court?"
Tyron"Ali:"Richie."
Ron"Waters:"Who?"
Tyron"Ali:"Hoy."But,"see,"they"asked"me"to"be"on"his"finance"committee,"last"year"NN"
Ron"Waters:"Okay."
Tyron"Ali:"NN"and"then"NN"
Ron"Waters:"Yeah,"I"know"this"[inaudible]"NN"
Tyron"Ali:"NN"Mark"NN"
Ron"Waters:"How"many"people"runnin"for"that?"
Tyron"Ali:"Fifteen."
Ron"Waters:"God."Thats"worse"than"before."
Tyron"Ali:"Yeah."Its"fifteen"slots."Well,"fifteen,"uh,"nominees"NN""
Ron"Waters:"I"think"its"only"one"NN"
Tyron"Ali:"NN"Fif""fifteen"candidates,"I"should"say."
Ron"Waters:"Isnt"NN""
Tyron"Ali:"Its"one"slot."
26"
"
T""65""March"14,"2011"
Ron"Waters:"One"slot."
Tyron"Ali:"Heres"the"problem:"the"lady"who"left"NN"
Tyron"Ali:"NN"Thomasine"Tynes,"was"tellin"my"boy,"she""he"said,"um,"N"older,"Caucasian"lady."And"they"
would"like"to"have"a"white"female"NN"
Tyron"Ali:"NN"replacing"a"white"female."
Ron"Waters:"Okay."
Tyron"Ali:"Thats"why"when,"when,"um,"one"of"the"uh,"gentleman"close"to"Ramsey"said"to"me,"he"said,"
Look,"leave"Hoy"alone."Were"going"this"way."
Ron"Waters:"Okay."
Tyron"Ali:"And"then"Donna"came"to"me"and"she"said,"Hey,"look."You"know,"I"know"you"guys"are"friends"
with"Maria,"and"this"and"that,"but"we"would"appreciate"your"support."And"honestly,"I"dont"know"that"
uhwhether"or"not"we"give"her"support,"I"think"she"will"just""she"will"win"anyway."
Ron"Waters:"Okay."
Tyron"Ali:"The"horse"in"the"race"thats"gonna"be"runis"Savage"v."Maria."Because"we"have"not"taken"a"
position"on"that"yet."
Ron"Waters:"Okay."
Tyron"Ali:"You"know,"because"ya""le""ah""e""lemme"tell"you"something,"and"Im"not"complaining,"I"just"
think"it"is"sosad"that"you"have"good"business"people"in"North"Philadelphia"and"West"Philadelphia"and"
in"Southwest"Philadelphia."But"you"give"the"Parking"Authority"contract"to"someguy."Whatever"color"he"
might"be."But"why"do"you"have"to"give"it"to"somebody"up"in"the"Northeast?"
Ron"Waters:"Cause"Vince"is"from"the"Northeast."
Tyron"Ali:"I"understand"that."I"understand"that."
Ron"Waters:"And"all"his"connections,"um,"John"Perzel,"um,"John"Taylor""
Tyron"Ali:"[To"Felicia]"Thank"you."
Ron"Waters:"You"know,"all"of""thats"where"the,"the"Republican"stronghold"is"in"Philadelphia."Its"more"
than"likely"that"this"guys"a"Republican."
27"
"
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Tyron"Ali:"No"hes"not."See,"thats"the"thing."
Ron"Waters:"Oh"he"isnt."
Tyron"Ali:"He"is"not."
Ron"Waters:"Whoa."
Tyron"Ali:"See,"that""you"know"I"do"my"homework."
Ron"Waters:"I,"I"know"that."
Tyron"Ali:"You"know"I"do"my"homework."
Ron"Waters:"[To"Felicia]"Thank"you."
Tyron"Ali:"Listen,"the"guys"a"Puerto"Rican,"all"right?"His"name"is"Michael"Muoz."He"hangs"around"
Marias"husband,"Toms."Toms"is"a"Republican."You"understand"what"Im"sayin?"
Ron"Waters:"Right."
Tyron"Ali:"Muozs"son"is"a"lawyer."
Ron"Waters:"Okay."
Tyron"Ali:"But,"lawyer,"eh""I"mean."Republican"or"Democrat,"couldnt"he"at"least"look"out"for"one"OCA"
thats"not"NN"
Ron"Waters:"Yeah."
Tyron"Ali:"You,"you"know"what"I"mean?"
Ron"Waters:"Well,"you"know"what?"What"I"need"then,"what"I"need"then"is,"um,"can"you"give"me,"you"
gave"me"the,"you"IDd"one"thing."
Ron"Waters:"See,"theres"fifteen"of"em.""
Ron"Waters:"Cause"one""now,"whos"the"other"contractor?"
Tyron"Ali:"The"other"contractor""the"first"one"was"a"group"from"Parkside"Avenue."But"they"are"a"wholly"
owned"subsidiary"of"an"NCO"group,"which"is"Jewish"owned."
Ron"Waters:"Okay."
28"
"
T""65""March"14,"2011"
Tyron"Ali:"Right?"
Tyron"Ali:"And"then"youve"got,"uh,"another"uh,"small"collections"agency"
Ron"Waters:"Right."
Tyron"Ali:"that"handles"the"dunning"notices."
Ron"Waters:"Okay."
Tyron"Ali:"And"then"youve"got"this"RCB,"this"Revenue"Collection"Bureau,"which"is"located"on"Torresdale"
Avenue."
Ron"Waters:"Right."Okay.""
(51:59)"
Tyron"Ali:"And"the"thing"about"it"is,"like,"you"know,"I"support"you"of"course"NN""
Ron"Waters:"Right,"right."
Tyron"Ali:"NN"for"the"duration."
Ron"Waters:"Right."
Ron"Waters:"Right."I"got"it."All"right,"we"cool."
Tyron"Ali:"You"gotta"put"him"in"a"corner"and"be"like,"look."
Tyron"Ali:"Im"serious.""
Ron"Waters:"Oh."
Tyron"Ali:"I"had"to"do"that"with"somebody"at"the"bank"not"that"long"ago."
Ron"Waters:"No."
Tyron"Ali:"You"know,"youve"got"X"number"of"dollars"thats"outstanding"
Ron"Waters:"Right."
Tyron"Ali:"How"much"money"did"we"put"in"your"bank"last"year?""You"know?"
29"
"
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Ron"Waters:"Well"we"need"to"find"that"out,"because"we""when"I"mentioned"to"him"about"you"know,"just"
based"on"what"you"had"already,"reminds"me"of."
Tyron"Ali:"Yes."
Ron"Waters:"I"was"able"to"respond"real"quickly"when"he"said,"Well,"we"got"somebody."I"was"able"to"tell"
him"say,"Well,"you"still"got"a"lot."You"know,"uh,"still"got"a"lot"out"there."I"dont"know"if"I"told"him"how"
much,"but"I"think"I"told"him"that"you"still"had"two"million"still"out"there."
Tyron"Ali:"Millions"of"dollars,"because"lets"assume,"lets"assume,"lets"assume"that"the"Parking"Authority"
writes,"for"arguments"sake,"three"million"dollars"in"tickets"a"year."All"right?"
Ron"Waters:"Right."Well,"they"went"way"over"that."You"know"that."
Tyron"Ali:"Right."Lets"assume,"for"arguments"sake,"that"they"only"collectedfifty"percent."Now,"we"know"
the"numbers"seventy."
Ron"Waters:"Right."
Tyron"Ali:"But"lets"say"its"fifty."
Ron"Waters:"Right."
Tyron"Ali:"Were"still"looking"at"1.5"million"that"they"have"not"collected."
Ron"Waters:"Exactly."
Tyron"Ali:"And,"and"thats"just"the"elementary"NN"
Ron"Waters:"Right."
Tyron"Ali:"NN"mathematics"behind"it."Thats"not"even"mathematics."Thats"just"arithmetic."
Ron"Waters:"Right."Right."
Ron"Waters:"Thats"real"basic."Well,"its"gonna"be"important"that"uh,""see"now"what"Im"gonna"need,"I"
guess"before"we"get"to,"um,"meet"with"him"on"Thursdayor"Friday,"whatever"the"day"it"is,"I"know"I"need"
for""I"mean,"youll"be"there."Will"your"client"be"there"too?"
Tyron"Ali:"I"will"be"there."
Ron"Waters:"Okay."So,"well"be"able"to"talk,"as"business"people,"or"men,"Im"a"legislator,"you"know,"still"
not"alleged"and"Im"still"NN"
Tyron"Ali:"You"understand"the"job"situation."
Ron"Waters:"Yeah."
30"
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Tyron"Ali:"I"mean,"let"me"tell"you"how"deep"this"is."Years"ago,"when"I"owned"a"collections"agency,"we"
were"lookin"to"do"some"business"with"Verizon."They"wanted"a"minority"contractor"so"bad;"they"bank"
rolled"the"entire"project."In"other"words,"they"gave"us"the"money"to"start"up."
Ron"Waters:"Okay."Really?"
Tyron"Ali:"Yes!"Ron,"you"know"me."I"know"how"to"cut"a"deal."Psh."We"would"make""you"know,"we"could"
make""you"could"make"NN"
Tyron"Ali:"After"expenses"
Ron"Waters:"Right."
Tyron"Ali:"Four"hundred"thousand"a"year."
Tyron"Ali:"Minimally."
Tyron"Ali:"Yes."Think"about"it"like"this:"our"collection"rates"arewhatever"we"can"agree"on."Okay?"
Tyron"Ali:"Typical"collections"rates,"if"it"is"a"true"collection"account,"they"start"at"twenty"percent."
Tyron"Ali:"So"when"youre"looking"at,"I"dont"know,"if"you"look"ata"million"dollars."
Tyron"Ali:"Our"collection"fee"is"NN"
Ron"Waters:"Two"hundred"thousand."
Tyron"Ali:"Two"hundred"thousand"dollars."But,"in"order"to"collect"a"million"dollars,"statistically,"for"every"
uh,"one"dollar"thats"placed,"youre"going"to"collect"probably"eight"cents,"if"its"a"tertiary"based"account."
If"its"longer"than"ninety"days."
Ron"Waters:"Okay."
Tyron"Ali:"Okay?"Tertiary"account"and"its"over"ninety"days."So"if"he"gives"us"eight"million"dollars,"the"
chance"of"us"collecting"one"million"dollars"are"pretty"damn"good.""
Ron"Waters:"Okay."Mmm."
31"
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Tyron"Ali:"Pretty"good,"and"you"know,"when"you"look"at"Michael"Muozs"website,"RCB,"it"says"that"
theyve"collected"over"a"hundred"million"dollars"for"the"city."With"all"due"respect,"if"he"was"sittin"here"
Id"say"it:"Puerto"Rican."You"employ"Puerto"Rican"people.""
Tyron"Ali:"You"employ"people"from"the"Northeast."What"about"people"from"North"Philadelphia?"West"
Philadelphia?"Southwest"Philadelphia?"Ca""do"you"have"a"partnership"agreement"in"place"with"a"nonN
profit"to"put"people"back"in?"I"have"that"situation"all"of"the"time."Where"we"would"look"at"folks"who"are"
on"WelfareNtoNWork"programs?"
Tyron"Ali:"And"get"them"back"to"work."Even"if"its"part"time."Start"off"small."
Tyron"Ali:"Hate"to"sound"like"a"lobbyist,"but"thats"exactly"what"it"is."
Ron"Waters:"Maybe"
Tyron"Ali:"[Laughs]"
Ron"Waters:"Hey"man,"its"your"job,"brotha"
Ron"Waters:""its"your"job."But"for"me?"Its"an"education."You"know"why?"Becauseyou"know,"some"
lobbyists"who,"who"I"spend"some"time"with,"not"a"lot,"but"you"know,"but"one"good"thing"about"you"is""
that"its"not"justI"mean"its"not"just""lobbyin,"but"its"also"a"little"bit"of"education"on"how"to"do"things"
even"above"passing"a"bill."You"know,"because"of"what,"you"know,""[Inaudible]"bill,"they"need,"um,"passed,"
you"know,"about"the"House"
Tyron"Ali:"I"appreciate"you"saying"that"sir.""
Ron"Waters:"Yeah."
Tyron"Ali:"The,"the"piece"is,"honestly?"
Tyron"Ali:"People"think"that"the,"the"caucus""the"caucusing"in"order"to"create"amendments,"or"in"order"
to"get"a"bill"through"NN"
Tyron"Ali:"NN"is"really"what"lobbying"is"about"and"thats"probably"true""if"its"an"elementary"relationship."""
32"
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Tyron"Ali:"I"dont"consider"this"that."
Ron"Waters:"No,"no."
Tyron"Ali:"At"all."Ive"known"you"for"too"long."
Ron"Waters:"Yeah."
Tyron"Ali:"The"other"piece"is"this:"how"else"can"legislators"be"reelected"unless"there"is"a"special"
relationship?"How,"how"is"that?"
Ron"Waters:"Right."
Tyron"Ali:"Thats"impossible."
Ron"Waters:"Right."
Tyron"Ali:"Because,"initially,"what"will"happen"is,"the"attorney,"who"typically"represents"the"lob""the"
legislator?"Will"make"a"call."
Ron"Waters:"Right."
Tyron"Ali:"Will"make"a"call"to"the"folks"that"are"lobbying"this"legislator."
Ron"Waters:"Right."
Tyron"Ali:"And"then"the"pressure"begins."
Ron"Waters:"Right."
Tyron"Ali:"This"is"a"little"bit"different."
Ron"Waters:"Mm."
Tyron"Ali:"Because"I"know"you."
Ron"Waters:"Right."
Tyron"Ali:"And"because"you"know"me."And"because"I"like"and"respect"you."But,"the"other"piece"is"that"
thats"where"that,"that"very,"very"difficult"word,"leverage,"comes"in."You"know?"You"wanna"be"able"to"
leverage"your"relationships,"you"wanna"be"able"to"do"things"better."
Ron"Waters:"Yeah."
Tyron"Ali:"In"a"situation"like"this"NN""
33"
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Tyron"Ali:"NN"for"the"Parking"Authority"and"in"order"toraise"the"revenuethink"about"it"like"this:"the"
Parking"Authority"has"to"deliver"millions"of"dollars"every"year"to"the"school"district."Are"you"aware"of"
that?"
Ron"Waters:"Yeah,"but"its""yeah,"after"they"give"the"city"twenty"five"million."
Tyron"Ali:"Okay."So"theyre"different"parts."Collections"agencies"N"outside"collections"agencies"helps"
offset"the"revenues"that"are"spent"NN"
Ron"Waters:"Oh,"they"need"more."
Ron"Waters:"They"need"to"collect"more."I"think"they"normally"collect""it"used"to"be"about,"twenty"nine"
million"[inaudible]"on"a"average,"good"year."Then"they"would"give"the"city"twenty"five"and"give"the"um,"
the"um,"school"district"the"remaining"money."Um,"I"dont"even"know"how"thats"working,"because"with"
the"city"NN"[Tyrons+phone+goes+off]"school"district"deficit"what"it"is"right"now,"they"probably"need"to"do"
an"even"better"job"of"collecting"that"money"to"help"offset""see,"if"they"collected"more"money"NN"
Tyron"Ali:"If"they"did"NN"
Ron"Waters:"the"more"they"collect"NN"
Tyron"Ali:"NNyes."
Ron"Waters:"the"more"extra"it"would"be"going"toward"the"school"district"that"needs"more."
Tyron"Ali:"The,"the,"the"other"piece"is,"the"Parking"Authority""people"dont"understand"how"they"get"
their"capital."Theyre"capitalized"through"bonds."
Ron"Waters:"Right."
Tyron"Ali:"And"when"you"look"when"a"bond"rating"company"looks"at"the"internal"infrastructure"
financially"
Tyron"Ali:"of"the"company"that"theyre"underwriting"
Tyron"Ali:"they"like"to"see"that"your"receivables"are"in"good"shape."
Ron"Waters:"Right."Exactly."
34"
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Tyron"Ali:"And"thats"another"point"to"bring"to"his"attention."
Ron"Waters:"Right."I"feel"you."
Felicia:"Ooh,"sorry."All"right."Enjoy!"
Tyron"Ali:"Thank"you"dear."
Ron"Waters:"It"looks"good."
Felicia:"Can"I"get"you"anything"else?"
Ron"Waters:"Im"fine."
Tyron"Ali:"Im"okay."Thank"you."
"
1:00:21"
Tyron"Ali:"This"is"not"just"another,"uh,"collection"agency,"you"know,"that"were,"were,"that"were"lookin"
at."We"actually"know"the"deal."And"Ill"tell"you"somethin:"part"of"that,"part"of"that"is"because"Ive"been"in"
the"business"for"so"long.""
Ron"Waters:"Right."
Tyron"Ali:"As"Executive"Vice"President"for"St."Hill."So"we"know"how"to"make"it"move,"and"then,"you"know,"
we"gotta"be"able"to"look"out."
Ron"Waters:"Okay."Wow,"this"looks"good,"man."Somethin"different."[Long+pause]"I"know"I"aint"gonna"
eat"all"this,"so"Ill"just"do"what"I"always"do"[inaudible]."
Tyron"Ali:"Yeah."
[Long"pause]"
Ron"Waters:"So,"you"know"what"happened,"though,"I"think"if"Tommy,"if"Tommy"wanted"to"run"
[inaudible]"Vanessa."
Ron"Waters:"He"should"a"ran"the"last"time."He"would"have,"he"couldve,""I"think"he"would"a"won"if"he"
would"a"had"Jannie"on"his"side."
Tyron"Ali:"I"agree"with"you."
35"
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Ron"Waters:""Cause"with,"cause"if"Sharif"had"Jannies"help"Sharifs"gonna"have"to"[inaudible]"name"for"
himself."Tommys"deal"[inaudible]"a"name"for"himself."""The"big"reason"Vanessa"won"that"seat"
not"because"she"defeated"Tommy,"but"Tommy"defeated"himself"or"hurt"himself""kicked"his"
own"self"out"[inaudible]."If"he"came"at"her"this"time"and"said"I"made"my"mistakes,"I"know"what"
happened,"even"if"he"wanted"to"tell"the"truth,"[inaudible]"and"everything."You"know,"where"he""
whatever."Im"back!"I"think"he"would"of"got"his"seat"back."But"now?"If"she"works"real"hard,"
which"she"dont"do,"but""I"mean"I"say"that"for"this"reason."
Ron"Waters:"She"spend"too"much"time"here."She"spends"too"much"time"doin"other"things"that"have"
nothing"to"do"with"the"fact"that"shes"gone."To"me,"I"mean"like,"a"couple"weeks"ago,"she"was"in"Florida.""
Ron"Waters:"Fuck"Florida!"
Tyron"Ali:"Yup."
Ron"Waters:"You"need"to"be"home"every"day."You"cant"take"this"shit"for"granted!"You"gotta"be"home"NN""
Tyron"Ali:"Yup!"
Ron"Waters:"NNevery"day."She"went"there"another"time."What"are"you"doin?"Oh,"I"needed"to"come"up"
here"[inaudible]."What"are"you"talkin"about?"You"owe"a"ton"of"money."She"owes"people"money."
She"is,"she"is"in"deep"debt."
Tyron"Ali:"I"know."
Ron"Waters:"Cant"pay"her"mortgage."In"deep"debt."I"think"she"owes"loads,"loads,"thirty""forty"thousand"
dollars."In"campaign"debt."People"were"bitchin,"sayin"that"she"cant"pay"em."Um,"I"told"her"she"needs"
to"pay""even"if"you"cant"pay"it"off"at"once,"I"know"you"cant,"pay"somethin."
Tyron"Ali:"Right."
Ron"Waters:"Pay"one"payment.""
Tyron"Ali:"Right."
Ron"Waters:"Pay"in"installments."Make"a"commitment"that"you"gonna"do"this."Even"if"you"givin"em"two"
per"diem"checks"out"of,"out"of"a"month."I"had"owed,"um,"that"guy"Greg"Harvey,"I"dont"know"if"you"know"
him."Hes"like"the"campaign"lawyer."
Tyron"Ali:"Ive"heard"of"him."
36"
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Ron"Waters:"He"writes"the"laws"that"the"judges"[inaudible]."Hes"as"thorough"as"that."I"had"him"as,"as,"
um,"do"my"second"election."When"I"had,"uh,"friend"come"after"me""I"found"the"petitions"with."And"I"
hired"Greg,"with"a"level"of"success."You"know?"He"went"before"that"fuckin"judge,"man,"that"judge"
accepted"every"complaint"or"objection"that"Greg"made."He"didnt,"he"didnt"question"one"of"em."Every"
single"one"of"em."Knocked"that"guy"off"my""he"was"going"so"low"underneath"of"the"three"hundred"dol,"
three"hundred"threshold"that"I"eventually"had"to"say"okay."We"got"him"down"to"two"eighty"somethin."
We"were"like,"you"cant,"hes"not"qualified."
Tyron"Ali:"Yeah.""
Ron"Waters:"[Inaudible]"cause"Greg,"cause"what"this"shit"was"costin"me."[Laughs]"Greg"charges"a"lot"of"
money"by"the"hour."
Ron"Waters:"And,"but,"I"think+I"can"say,"I"had"to"pay"him"off."I"wasnt"havin"that"NN"
Ron"Waters:"NN"and"he"knew"I"didnt"have"it."
Ron"Waters:"But"he"knew"I"was"workin"towards"payin"him."
Ron"Waters:""If"I"can"get"past"this"Ill"probably"be"in"office."So"I"did."
Tyron"Ali:"Forever."
Ron"Waters:"And"I"paid"him"off."
Tyron"Ali:"Right."
Ron"Waters:"You"know,"I"paid"him"maybe"like"five"hundred"a"month"or"somethin,"man."You"know"I"was"
new,"I"had"debt,"but,"guess"what?"I"made"an"agreement"with"him,"and"I"paid"him"off,"and"thats"it."Okay?"
Im"lookin"at"her,"and"she"hasnt"made"a"payment."How"you"gonna"[inaudible]"actin"like"you"at"home."
Tyron"Ali:"I"like"Vanessa."You"know"I"do."
Ron"Waters:"I"do"too."I"do"too."
Tyron"Ali:"But,"but"somebody"has"got"to"pull"her"aside"and"tell"her,"Hey."This"is"business."
Ron"Waters:"This"is"business."I"agree"with"you."It""cause"it"is"business."Marty"Williams"told"me"that"shit,"
man,"earlier"in"my"career."
37"
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Ron"Waters:"He"said,"This"is"a"business."You"know?"See"I"know,"you"know,"cause"I"guess"he"probably"
thought""as"though"maybe"a"new"guy"comin"in,"I"might"not"see"that"far""
Tyron"Ali:"Right."
Ron"Waters:"But"after"being"in"it?"Yeah,"youll"learn"there."But"he"told"me"up"front,"its"a"business."This"is"
your"business."
Tyron"Ali:"You"know"I"used"to"sit"next"door"to"Harvey"at"the"law"firm."
Ron"Waters:"Oh"really?"
Tyron"Ali:"Yeah."My"office"was"first,"his"was"second."
Ron"Waters:"Okay."
Tyron"Ali:"Smart"guy."
Ron"Waters:"Oh"man."
Tyron"Ali:"Nothing"like"his"son."
Ron"Waters:"MmmNhmm."Harvey"was"a"guy""he"took"care"of"business"and"he"demanded"respectand"
people"liked"him."You"know,"I"mean,"after"a"while,"he"started,"you"know,"makin"some"[inaudible]"with"
some"things"."
Ron"Waters:"People"questioned."But,"for"the"most"part,"people"liked"him"or"they"questioned"him."Tony"
dont"have"that."Some"people"N"he"dont,"he"dont,"he"dont"enjoy"that."Hes"not"his"daddy."Not"sayin"he"
has"to"be"either."[Pause]"But,"anyway,"so"well"see"what"Tommy"does,"you"know,"hes"gotta"get"some"
money."
"
1:07:41"
Tyron"Ali:"Well,"heres"a"question"for"you."
Tyron"Ali:"Whose"team"are"you"gonna"be"on?"
Ron"Waters:"If"he"runs?"
Tyron"Ali:"Yes."
38"
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Ron"Waters:"I"gotta"be"with"him."
Tyron"Ali:"Okay."All"right.""
Ron"Waters:"I"have"to."
Tyron"Ali:"All"right."
Tyron"Ali:"Im"asking"you."
Ron"Waters:"Okay."I"have"to"be."
Tyron"Ali:"Okay."
Ron"Waters:"And"my"reason"is"simple."When"Tommy"ran"against"Mike"Dorsey,"I"told"Tommy,"Im"not"
against"you,"but"I"cant"be"for"you."See,"cause"Mike"is"the"incumbent."I"know"he"pissed"you"off,"I"know"
he"pissed"off"your,"your"stepmom."I"know"he"pissed"off"a"whole"bunch"of"people."Thats"just"the"way"he"
is."But"I"have"a"rule,"my"rule"was"that"I"support"incumbents."That"keeps"me"out"of"trouble."For"the"most"
part."Its"a,"its"a"pretty"simple"rule,"so"that"when"people"come"to"me"for"support,"I""Im"very"quick"to"
say"I"support"incumbents."Unless"I"have"a"very"good"reason"[inaudible]""If"I"stick"to"that"
Tyron"Ali:"Youll"be"okay."
Ron"Waters:"Ill"be"okay."Thats"why"I"said,"I"gotta"be"with"him."
Tyron"Ali:"MmmNhmm."We"wanna"be"helpful"
Tyron"Ali:"to"Kenyatta."But,"were"not"sure."
Ron"Waters:"Hey"look,""yall"reason"aint"gotta"be"my"reason.""I"mean,"my"reason"is"that"the,"the,"the""
this"keeps"me"out"of"trouble"a"little"bit."If"I"say"I"support"incumbents""if"thats"my"rule"of"thumb,"that"
gives"me"the"same"answer"all"the"time,"and"I"aint"gotta"play"NN"
Tyron"Ali:"Sure."
Ron"Waters:"NN"and"dance"around."I"aint"gotta"dance"around."As"a"politician."Now,"as"a"personI"can"do"
what"I"wanna"do."
Tyron"Ali:"What"are"you""see,"heres"the"thing:"were"tryin"to"figure"out"if"Johnny"Docs"boy,"Billy"
Herman?"Henon?"He""Herndon,"whatever"his"last"name"is."Billy"Henon."William"Henon."
Ron"Waters:"Is"he"runnin"for"judge?"
Tyron"Ali:"Hehes"gonna"be"runnin"for"Kenyattas"seat."
39"
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Ron"Waters:"Oh."Hes"runnin"for"that?"
Tyron"Ali:"He"will"be."
Ron"Waters:"Oh,"oh."
Tyron"Ali:"You"understand"what"Im"sayin?"
Ron"Waters:"Yeah."
Tyron"Ali:"Right."
Ron"Waters:"Right."You"know"what?"This"is"another"thing:"and"its"between"you"and"me."
Ron"Waters:"Found"out"over"the"weekendfriend"of"mine"tells"me,"Rodney"look."Down"he"goes.""Tellin"
me"about,"you"know,"his,"his"priority"[inaudible]"appointment"by"the"Governor."
Tyron"Ali:"So"it"is"true."
Ron"Waters:"But,"well,"yeah""well,"no""I"had"heard"it"too,"that"he"was"on"the""that"he"had"been"
appointed."
Ron"Waters:"But"I"was"waitin"for""to"find"out,"cause"I"was"talkin""I"asked"Jewels,"he"know"[inaudible]."
Tyron"Ali:"Yeah."
Ron"Waters:"But,"but,"um,"when,"when"Rodney"called"me,"and"he"verified"whats"up,"he"said,"Yes,"the"
Governor"offered"it"to"me,"he"said,"well"hes"probably"getting"out"of"his"[inaudible].""Then"he"went"into"
this"Kenyatta."Bout"how"Tony"[inaudible]"is"pissin"people"off."And"people"are"banging"down"their"
support"for"Kenyatta."
Tyron"Ali:"Thats"exactly"right."
Ron"Waters:"[Laughs]"Hes"makin"enemies"man,"for"Kenyatta."I"dont"know"if"hes"deliberately"
sabotaging"that"guys"race,"or"if"he"is"uh"
Tyron"Ali:"I"think"that"Kenyatta"believes"because"initially,"I"went"to"him"on"behalf"of"a"law"firm"because"
we"were"representing"Harold,"and"uh,"I"said,"Kenyatta,"could"you"please"just"wait."I"mean,"I"know"
Harold."Harold"is"like"a"godfather"to"me,"you"know,"thats"my"boy."He"said,"uh,"No."I"said,"What"would"
it"take"for"you"not"to"run?""
Tyron"Ali:"Ron,"as"Im"sitting"here"next"to"you,"he"said"to"me,"Give"me"a"quarter"of"a"million"dollars."
40"
"
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Ron"Waters:"Wha?!"
Tyron"Ali:"I"looked"around,"and"I"said,"I"cant"believe"you"just"said"something"like"that"to"me"and"Im"
leaving."So"I"saw"him"NN"
Ron"Waters:"[Laughs]"Wait"a"minute."I"believe"you"because"I"know"you"have"no"reason"to"lie."His"dad"
was"workin"at"the"Senators"office.""
Tyron"Ali:"He"was"an"aide."
Ron"Waters:"Heh?"As"an"aide?"
Tyron"Ali:"He"was"an"aide."He"wasnt"even"nobody."
Ron"Waters:"Who"the"fuck"made"him"think"that"he"[laughs]"deserved"that"kind"of"payoff?"
Tyron"Ali:"But,"but,"but,"the"thing"is,"the"thing"is,"what"do"you"think"of"him?"Now."Have"you"seen"him"
grow?"
Ron"Waters:"I"think""yeah,"Ima"tell"you"what"I"think"his"shortcoming"is."I"think"that"he"still,"in"his"mind,"
maybe"subconsciously,"still"sees"himself"as"Tonys"aide."I"dont"think"they"even"establish"any""I"think"
that"he"does"things"because"he"canmaybe"be"a"little"more"outspoken"than"he"used"to"as"a,"as"a"aide."
Maybe,"in"the,"in"the"open,"see"cause"he"was"real"close"with"Hardy."See,"thats,"thats"how"Tony""thats"
how"Kenyatta"gave"[inaudible]."Kenyatta"really"spoke"to"Hardy,"cause"Kenyatta"needed"someone"to"take"
him"underneath"his"wing"and"to"give"him"you"know,"help."And"Hardy"was"willing"to"do"that"for"young"
people"who"he"liked,"and"thats"how"Tony"got"with"Kenyatta,"so"they"had"that""thats"that""thats"that"
tranquil"way."But,"I"dont"think"that"Kenyatta"has"mentally"separated"himself"from"the"position"he"used"
to"have"before."I"dont"know"if"he"plays"those"video"games"with"Tony,"because"I"know"thats"pretty"much"
"I"never"played"with"him"so,"I"never"had"that"kind"of"relationship"with"him"where"that"we"were"boys."
We"cool,"he"knows"that"we"need"each"other"to"a"certain"degree,"hes"my"ward"leader,"he"knows"Im"the""
Chair,"he"knows"thathe"hears"the"same"things"I"hear."Around"Willies"we"get"to"see"whats"popular"with"
you."And"thats"the"switch"you"got"to"invent."
Rona"Waters:"[inaudible]"
Felicia:"[Inaudible]"
Tyron"Ali:"Thank"you"dear."
Ron"Waters:"You"know,"can"I"pack""can"you"pack"this"up"for"me?"
Felicia:"I"sure"can."
Ron"Waters:"[Inaudible]and"not"too"big""I"dont"want"it"to"fly"all"over"the"place."
41"
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T""65""March"14,"2011"
Felicia:"Okay."
Ron"Waters:"All"right,"thanks.""But"he,"but"he"hears"the"same"thing""I"could"run"against"someone"and"
take"the"ward"and"I"know"he"worries"about"that"cause"I"see"the"way"he"reacts"sometime."And"rightfully"
so,"I"mean,"I"know"you"gotta"be"careful","I"understand."[Inaudible]"run"against"him"cause"somebody""
you"could"take"him"out."
Tyron"Ali:"You"can."
Ron"Waters:"Yeah!"I""yeah"but""but"see,"but"""I"know"that"I"wont,"unless"he,"unless"he"really"pisses"me"
off,"like,"trust"me""he"has"in"the"past."Almost"to"that"point,"cause"that"candidate"that"I"said"had"to"get"
Greg"Harvey"to"knock"off,"supposedly"that"was"his"candidate,"and"then"he"was"groomin"another"guy"to"
run"against"me"named,"um,"Ross,"and"um"NN"
Tyron"Ali:"Elton"Ross."
Ron"Waters:"No,"no."
Tyron"Ali:"Yeah."Young"guy.""
Ron"Waters:"Yeah."
Tyron"Ali:"Clean"cut."I"know"Elton""hes"a"lawyer."
Ron"Waters:"No,"no,"no."This"aint"that"Ross."
Tyron"Ali:"Not"this"Ross?"Okay."
Ron"Waters:"This"guy"was"not"a"lawyer,"but"he,"he"was,"he"has"a"substance"problem.""
Ron"Waters:"And"he"always"had"a"substance"problem."But"he"already"liked"this"guy,"you"know,"and"he"
was"like,"Tonys"boss."I"mean,"this"guy,"Tony"would"let"this"guy"drive"his"fuckin"car,"um,"when"Tony"had"
the"green"Navigator."He"would"drive"Tonys"car"down"to"8th"and"Butler"to"pick"up"his"crack."Know"what"I"
mean?"Thats"how"fuckin"crazy"this"guys"boss"was."Everybody"like,"He"drives"car"with"set"of"eight"
license"plate"goin"to"pick"up"crack"at"a"known""shits"on"camera.""It"was"so"the"trash"people""
everybody"goin,"they"pickin"up"they"crack,"so"anyway."He"was"grooming"him"to"run"again."And,"and"I"
knew"it."And,"uhso"what"happened"was,"this"is"how"things"work"out,"he"had"a"relapse"and"went"deep"
into"his"drug"problem."He"had"to"be"put"into"a"NN"
Felicia:"Sorry,""
Ron"Waters:"Oh,"thank"you."Youre"doing"a"great"job."
Felicia:"Would"anyone"like"dessert?"Or"coffee"or"anything?"
Tyron"Ali:"Need"to"bring"it."Thank"you."
42"
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T""65""March"14,"2011"
Ron"Waters:"He"had"got"so"deep"in"the"drug"problem,"that"he"had"to"go"into"a"rehab,"and"everybody"
knew"about"it."So"nobody"was"gonna"support"him."So"Tony"knew"that,"that"his"chance"of"winning"was,"
was,"was"next"to"nothin."[To"Felicia]"Okay,"thank"you."
Felicia:"Your"welcome."
Ron"Waters:"So"he"had,"um,"so"he"had"to"back"off."But"that,"that,"that"dont"mean"I"dont"remember"
what"he"was""willing"and"planning"and"doing"to"me."So,"he"has"his"ways."Thats"where"the"trust"factor"is"
missing"sometimes"[inaudible]."
Tyron"Ali:"The"thing,"the"thing"about"it"is,"at"least"from"my"experience,"every"person"who"is"in"a"position"
of"power,"that"power"originates"from"some"place."
Ron"Waters:"Right."Right."
Tyron"Ali:"Andin"even"the"most"powerful"people"have"support,"they"get"support"NN"
Ron"Waters:"Right."
Tyron"Ali:"NNand"then"they"know"how"to"recruit"support."
Tyron"Ali:"You"know?"With,"uh""would"Dwight"not"be"in"there?"Hes"not"gonna"take"as"many"chances"as"
he"once"did."For"the"simple"fact"that"there"was"always"a"conduit,"there"was"always"a"goNto"person"that"
he"could"talk"to."And"he"cant"do"that"anymore."
Ron"Waters:"You"mean"Tony?"
Tyron"Ali:"MmmNhmm.""
Ron"Waters:""Yeah."
Tyron"Ali:""You"know?"
"
1:17:23"
Ron"Waters:"Damn,"now,"check"this"out:"do"you"know"about"this?""Somebody"was"telling"me"today,"
Marian"Tasco"[inaudible]"runnin"because"of"that"DROP"program?"
Tyron"Ali:"Yes."You"didnt"see"what"happened?"
Ron"Waters:"I"saw"what"happened"with"the"DiCiccio."
Tyron"Ali:"Right."
Ron"Waters:"Right."
43"
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T""65""March"14,"2011"
Tyron"Ali:"Can"I"have"the"uh,"raspberry"cheesecake"and"a"cappuccino"please?"
Felicia:"And"a"cappuccino?"And"for"you?"
Ron"Waters:"Mmm."
Felicia:"You"need"some"time?"[Laughs]"
Ron"Waters:"[Laughs]"Where"are"we"now?"
Felicia:"Dessert"is"right"here"on"the"back."
Ron"Waters:"Where"is"it,"over"here?"[Long"pause]"[Inaudible]"homemade"rasp""raspberry""you"know"
what?"Let"me"try"that."
Felicia:"Okay."
Ron"Waters:"Yeah,"yeah."So"that"is"where"something"I"heard"the"other"day"that"I"think"the"courts"are"
making"a"ruling,"or,"or"she"might"be"N"they"might"be"N"cause"she"had"the"challenger"and"I"heard"she"has"
two."Did"they"take"her"to"court"and"challenge"her"qualifications?""I"heard"that"might"come"up."
Tyron"Ali:"It"absolutely"will"come"up."I""Ill"tell"you"something:"for"Councilman"Rizzo,"uh,"for"Councilman"
DiCiccio."They"have"made"their"positions"clear.""
Tyron"Ali:"Rizzos"takin"the"money."
Ron"Waters:"Right."
Tyron"Ali:"And"hes"gonna"run"again."
Ron"Waters:"Right."
Tyron"Ali:"And"DiCiccio"is"gonna"take"the"DROP"money"and"hes"not"running"again."
Ron"Waters:"Right."
Tyron"Ali:"Excuse"me."People"see"Marian"Tasco"as"someone"that"is"playing"the"public"for"a"fool."
Tyron"Ali:"She"will"not"make"a"decision,"and"she"will"not"make"that"decision"known"publicly."
Ron"Waters:"Wow."
44"
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Tyron"Ali:"So"people"are"calling"into"question"her"character."Because,"are"you"going"to"take"the"money"
from"the"tax"payers"and"then"come"back"for"another""another"run?"
Ron"Waters:"Yeah."
Tyron"Ali:"Or,"are"you"gonna"take"the"money"and"just"go"quietly"into"the"night?"
Ron"Waters:"Thats"what"shes"supposed"to"do."
Tyron"Ali:"I"think,"I"think"people"would"respect"her"more"NN"
Ron"Waters:"If"she"do"that."
Tyron"Ali:""If"she"did"that."Now,"that"brother"that"used"to"run"her"NAC,"[inaudible]?"A"good"friend"of"
mine.""
Ron"Waters:"Right."
Tyron"Ali:"And"I"ran"into"him"a"few"days"ago"and,"his"position"is"similar"to"mine:"if"youre"gonna"run,"run.""
Ron"Waters:"Right."
Tyron"Ali:"And"build"your"public"trust"and"eventually"people"will"forgive"and"forget."
Ron"Waters:"Right."
Tyron"Ali:"But"dont"do"it"now."Dont"do"what"your"doin"now"because"it"is"the"wrong"time."Youre"getting"
a"check"for"four"hundred"and"forty"thousand"dollars"and"people"dont"have"food"to"eat."They"dont"have"
money"to"pay"their"mortgage."Their"children"are"hungry."
Ron"Waters:"Right."
Tyron"Ali:"And"theyre"in"your"district."
Ron"Waters:"Right,"right."
Tyron"Ali:"At"the"end"of"the"day,"she"is"creating"a"problem"that"should"not"even"be"a"problem."
Ron"Waters:"Especially"with"all"the"pride"and"credibility"that"she"has"established"for"herself.""
Tyron"Ali:"Listen,"with"the"Logan"sinking"homes,""she"was"getting"1.7"to"3"million"dollars"a"year."Where"
did"that"money"go?"
Ron"Waters:"Whatcha"mean"she"was"gettin?"
Tyron"Ali:"That"was"the"set"aside"for"the"Logan"sinking"homes,"because"remember"there"were"plans"at"
one"point"to"build"a"huge"mall"over"there,"between"8th,"and"8th"and"Louden,"and"going"right"into""uh,"
its"right"off"of""I"guess"that"would"be"5th""and"why"are""uh,"close"to"5th."Is"that"5th?"7th?"Its"7th"and"
the"Boulevard."
45"
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Ron"Waters:"Yeah."
Tyron"Ali:"Thats"the"triangle"for""for"the"uh"NN"
Ron"Waters:"Right"its"[inaudible]"
Tyron"Ali:""NN"for"the"Logan"homes,"yes."
Ron"Waters:"Right."
Tyron"Ali:"And"nothings"been"done"with"that"land?"
Ron"Waters:"Nothing!"
Tyron"Ali:"So"where"did"the"money"go?"
Ron"Waters:"Right."Matter"fact"theres"a"sign"that"somebody"has"up"there"that"talks"about""that"asks""
questions"about"that"stuff"and""theres"a"sign"that"somebody"has"posted."I"think"they"asks:""what"
happened"to"the"money?"
Tyron"Ali:"Right."Its"over"fourteen"million"dollars"cause"she"got"that"appropriation"was,"uh"not"just"for"
one"budget"cycle,"it"was"for"quite"a"few."
Ron"Waters:"Wow."
Tyron"Ali:"So,"she"should"take"the"mo""see,"the"thing"about"it"ispeople,"the"general"public"has"no"idea"
whats"going"on."
Ron"Waters:"Yeah,"thats"true."
Tyron"Ali:"They"dont."
Ron"Waters:"They"dont."
Tyron"Ali:"They"just"dont,"you"know?"
Ron"Waters:"They"dont."
Tyron"Ali:"They"just"dont."
Ron"Waters:"And"thats"what"a"lot"of"these"people"play"on."
Tyron"Ali:"Yes."
Ron"Waters:"When"they"do"what"they"do."
Tyron"Ali:"Yes."
Ron"Waters:"Is"that"people"really"dont"know,"you"know,"or"itll"just"go"away."
46"
"
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Tyron"Ali:"Yes."
Ron"Waters:"You"know"what"I"mean?"Even"if"they"do"know,"its"just"gonna"go"away."Cause"its"gonna"be"
somethin"else"gonna"get"their"attention."And"that"was"[inaudible]."You"know,"man,"that"is"a""so,"so"the"
courts"wont"be"able"to"rule"if,"if"she"can"stay"on"the"ballot"or"not"because"I"heard"thats"why"they"
jumped"off"of"Rizzo,"was"because"it"wasnt"David"Oh"it"was"because"they"feel"as"though"the"courts"are"
gonna"rule"if"hes"challenged"that"he"cannot"be"a"candidate."Thats"what"I"believe"[inaudible]"supposed"
to"be"was"it"possible""the"ruling"on"this."
Tyron"Ali:"[Sighs]"For"David"to"lose"this"time"its"going"to"take"a"miracle."
Ron"Waters:"Well,"David,"yeah."Well,"the"Republicans"are""I"mean"they"have,"they"have"put""its"a"
shame"cause"Frankie"Rizzo"really"did"a"good"job."Frankie,"but"Frankie"messed"up"so"bad"when"he"made"a"
comment"about"the"DROP."He"said,"he"mentioned"that"he"said"thats"what"his"family"would"want"him"to"
do."And"going"to"your"point"about"people"hungry"and"starving""all"that"kinda"shit."I"mean,"you"ran"to"be"
a"public"servant,"for,"for"everybody,"and"not"for"your"family."
Ron"Waters:"You"should"not"bring"them"in,"thats"personal."When"you"say"well,"Im"gonna"take"the"
money"cause"I"think"thats"what"my"family"would"want"me"to"do"NN"
Tyron"Ali:"Right."
Ron"Waters:"Fuck"that"sh""that"didnt"go"over"well"with"me"at"all."But,"outside"of"that,"I"think"he"has"a."a"
great"uh,"reputation"as"being"a"good"counselNatNlarge,"who"was"willing"to"help"you,"no"matter"what"your"
registration""no"matter"where"you"live"in"the"city.""Hed"help"them."
"
1:23:43"
Tyron"Ali:"We""see,"heres"the"other"thing:"Republican"City"Committee"is"in"real"distress."McGeehan,"
Canuso,"DiDinardo""these"guys"have"done"what"they"wanted"for"so"long"that"the"partys"in"complete"
disarray."
Ron"Waters:"Right."
Tyron"Ali:"Now,"at"some"point,"theyre"gonna"realize"that,"uh,"if"you"talk"to"Bill"Green"NN"
Tyron"Ali:"NN"and"you"can"convince"him"to"change"his"party,"you"got"a"winner."
Tyron"Ali:"You"got"a"winner."
47"
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T""65""March"14,"2011"
Ron"Waters:"Yeah,"right,"you"know."
Tyron"Ali:"And"Im"not"sayin"this"time."See,"people"dont"understand."If"you"wanna"break"the"cycle,"run"a"
woman"first."Get"people"thinking"differently."And"then"you"run"a"guy"who"cant"lose.""
Ron"Waters:"Yeah."
Tyron"Ali:"By"that"time,"people"already"fed"up,"you"know?"
Ron"Waters:"Manthis"is"ridiculous."
Tyron"Ali:"Thank"you,"dear."
Felicia:"Youre"welcome."Enjoy!"
Ron"Waters:"Enjoy?""
Felicia:"[Laughs]"
Ron"Waters:"Im"already"full,"just"lookin"at"these"things."
Felicia:"You"want"me"to"wrap"that"up"too?"
Ron"Waters:"Oh"man."
Tyron"Ali:"My"one"friend"used"to"tell"me"all"the"time"when"we"would"go"out,"he"said,"Ty,"whenever"you"
call"me,"I"know"Im"gon"be"all"right.""
[Both+laugh]"
Ron"Waters:"This"looks"like""it,"its"way"bigger"than"I"thought"it"was"gonna"be."What"is"this,"a"
cheesecake?"
Tyron"Ali:"Yes."Its"a"raspberry"cheesecake."
Ron"Waters:"I"like"that"idea"about,"um,"Green."
Tyron"Ali:"Im"tellin"ya."
Ron"Waters:"I,"I"could"see"him"being"Mayor"one"day."
Tyron"Ali:"Im"telling"you."
Ron"Waters:"Yeah,"I"could"see"him"being"Mayor."He"could"definitely"be"Mayor.""
Tyron"Ali:"Yes."
Ron"Waters:"I"think,"I"think"Wilson"Goode,"I"used"to"think"that"maybe"he"have"a"chance"if"he"would"run"
citywide"[inaudible]"NN"
48"
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T""65""March"14,"2011"
Tyron"Ali:"He,"hes"too"polarized."
Ron"Waters:"Yeah."He"hasntyeah."
Tyron"Ali:"Hes"too"polarized."And"that,"that"little"situation"with"Latrice?""
Ron"Waters:"Yeah."
Tyron"Ali:"I"mean,"thats"my"girl."
Ron"Waters:"Yeah,"yeah."
Tyron"Ali:"You"know,"but"that"does"not"work."
Ron"Waters:"That"was"bad."I"mean,"for"her"to"say"the"stuff"that"she"said,"was"bad"enough,"but"for"him"to"
come"out"and"defend"her"the"way"that"he"defended"her"when"she"was"dead"wrongfirst"of"all,"she"had"
no"business"goin"after"Jeff"Cole"with"the"signs,"you"know"what"I"mean?"Callin"him"a"racist"and"stuff,"in"
City"chambers,"in"Council"chambers."Nobody"really"knew"what"was"goin"on""between"the"two"of"them."
She"started"that"fight."You"cant"beat"the"media."And"especially"him"because"this"guy"makes"a"living"out"
of"burying"people,"man!"And"NN""
Tyron"Ali:"Jeff"Cole."
Ron"Waters:"Yeah,"Jeff"Cole.""
Ron"Waters:"You"know,"and"hes"the"one"that"got"a"lot"of"this"shit"changed"up"here"in"Harrisburg"right"
now"we"did"on"your"dime"stuff"were"doin"man."
Ron"Waters:"You"know?"And"then,"him,"what"he"should"a"did,"was"grab"her"by"her"panties"or"whatever"
when"he"got"her"in"bed,"and"called"her"and,"Dont"you"ever"[inaudible]".""Do"some"dumb"shit"like"that."
And"he"had"to"educate"her."He"needed"to"educate"her."Not,"hey,"not,"not"pacify"her."And"let"her"know."
Look,"my"career"is"on"the"line"here"and"I"dont"want"N"I"dont"need"this,"you"know?"He"should"a"brought"
her"in"and"straightened"her"out."
Tyron"Ali:"I"dont"think"he"could."
Ron"Waters:"Why,"cause"he"fell"head"over"heels"in"love"with"this"little"girl,"who"I"guess?""I"mean,"he"aint"
the"most"handsome"guy"in"the"world,"but""[Both+laugh]"
Tyron"Ali:"He"aint"good"lookin"like"you,"right?"[Both+laugh]"
Ron"Waters:"I"mean,"it"is"what"it"is."But"I"think"he"was"just"whipped."I"think"the"boy"[inaudible]"her."
Tyron"Ali:"Do"you"know"her?"
49"
"
T""65""March"14,"2011"
Ron"Waters:"Oh"sure!"I"knew"her"before"he"was"dating."I"mean"I"never"messed"with"her."I"used"to"think"
her"momma"was"the"one"that"was"[inaudible]."
Tyron"Ali:"Pat."Pat"is,"yeah."MmmNhmm."Pats"actually"better"looking"than"she"is."
Ron"Waters:"No,"man!"Hands"down."Hands"down,"man."I"think"she"used"to"think"she"looked"like"her"
mother.""She"look"like"her"father.""Her"dad"[inaudible]."
Ron"Waters:"[Inaudible]."
Tyron"Ali:"Yeah."
Ron"Waters:"I"think"her"husband"finally"woke"up"and"realized"how"pretty"she"was"but"then"one"time,"she"
used"to"travel"by"herself"a"lot,"[inaudible]he"started"travelin"with"her"and"maybe"he"found"out"that,"you"
know,"she"mighta"been""he"thinks"she"was"travelin"with"her"daughter"all"the"time""with""that"hurt"his"
career."I"mean,"cause"that""and"then,"and"then"I"started"seein"her"at"the"Dell"with"another"dude!"And,"
and"he"was"there."And"so,"so"Im"in"the"booth,"and"I"see"him"there,"by"himself"in"the"booth,"cause"he"
used"to"be"with"her,"next"thing"I"know,"hes"in"a"booth"by"himself,"and"she"walked"by"with"another"dude."
Im"like,"I"cant"believe"this."And"hes"sittin"there"like"he"got"a"attitude,"you"know?"And"I"dont"want"to"
be"talkin"to"him,"but"I"knew"he"knew"that"she"was""and"youre"right."He"probably"couldnt"a"done"
better.""He"probably"just"kinda"complacent."
Tyron"Ali:"Latrice,"Ive"partied"with"her.""
Ron"Waters:"Yeah."
Tyron"Ali:"Ive,"Ive,"Ive"been"to"a"number"of"events"with"her."
Ron"Waters:"Right."
Tyron"Ali:"And,"um,"one"thing"I"will"tell"you:"she,"uh,"she"has"a"good"time."
Ron"Waters:"Yeah."Oh,"Ive"been"to"some"parties"with"her."[Both+laugh]"I,"I,"I"like"Latrice."I"like"her"mom."I"
like"her"mom"even"more,"man."Her"moms"is"good"people,"man."
Tyron"Ali:"Yes,"yes."
Ron"Waters:"But"she"had,"um,"um,"um,"she"had"this"uh,"when""I"mean"she"ran"against"La,"La""um,"
Rosita"Youngblood."She"was"going"for"State"Rep."
Tyron"Ali:"I"wish"she"would."[Laughs]"
Ron"Waters:"She"did!"
Tyron"Ali:"No,"I"wish"she"would"this"time!"
50"
"
T""65""March"14,"2011"
Ron"Waters:"Oh."She"ran,"but"she"was"a"terrible"candidate."Terrible."And"there,"there"was"an"event"
where"she"was"at,"and"instead"of"her"showin"herself"she"crawled"out"of"the"place"underneath"the"tables"
and"shit."
Ron"Waters:"Im"like,"no,"she"didnt."What"is"she"afraid"of?"She"cant"be."She"needs"to"stand"up"and"show"
people."Thats"not"[inaudible]"a"person"who"wants"to"run."That""I"think"word"got"out"about"the"way"she"
cowered"and"everybody"was"like,"She"aint"serious."So,"so"nobody"really"supported"her"after"that."But"
Jewel"had"brought"her"up"there"to"Harrisburg"and"introduced"her"to"the"Speaker."Cause"at"that"time,"
the"Speaker"couldnt"stand"Rosita."It"was""not"the"Speaker,"um,"the"Leader."I"think"it"was"Bill"DeWeese"
was"the"Leader"at"the"time."Yeah,"Bill"was"the"Leader."I"think"they"gave"her"some"money.""
Tyron"Ali:"I,"I,"uh,"I"just"hope,"you"know,"she"finds"her"way."Because"NN"
Ron"Waters:"Who?"
Tyron"Ali:"Latrice,"because"it"doesnt"last"forever."She"thinks"shes"got"a"job"for"life,"and"it"doesnt"work"
that"way."Things"change."
Ron"Waters:"Well,"shes""I"dont"know."Yeah,"I"like"her,"as"a"person""I,I"hope"that"um,"I"hope"she"grows"
up."I"think"she"thinks"that"shes"a"whole"lot"better"lookin"than"she"really"is."
Tyron"Ali:"[Laughs]""
Ron"Waters:"Thats"my"problem"I"got"with"her""I"think,"I"think"in"her"opinion"she"thinks"shes"drop"dead"
gorgeous,"anshes"alright."She"aint"drop"dead"gorgeous,"you"know."She"alright."
Tyron"Ali:"The,"uh"NN"
Ron"Waters:"I"mean,"she"wears""thats"why,"I"forgot,"[inaudible]"Jeff"Cole"investigated"her."Cause"of"her"
attitude."
Tyron"Ali:"Oh."
Ron"Waters:"Ill"tell"you"something.""I"mean"look"at"it."Why,"all"of"a"sudden",he"investigating"her?"What"
was"he"investigating?"The"time"she"reports"to"work"eleven"oclock"in"that"af""eleven"oclock"in"the"late"
morning."What"time"did"she"sign"in?"Eight""thirty."What"time"did"she"leave"to"go"to"lunch?"The"other"
staff,"they"[inaudible]"in"the"office,"is"sittin"there,"working"their"asses"off."Then"theyre"watchin"her"
come"in,"sign"in"whenever"time"she"signs"in"and"leave"when"she"wants"to"leave""[inaudible]"the"
investigation."Latrice"gotta"realize"that"when"you"go"inside"that"fucking"building,"you"on"camera,"when"
you"scan"your"ID,"that"shit"registers""[laughs]+I"think"of"this"a"little"later""I"think"it"was"the"other"staff"
that"turned"her"in."
Tyron"Ali:"Other"people"were"tellin"on"her."
Ron"Waters:"Yeah."
51"
"
T""65""March"14,"2011"
Tyron"Ali:"You"know,"and"because"nobody"wants"to"believe"it"to"be"true."Youve"got"the"attention"of"
Councilman,"so"now"you"are"capable"of"writin"your"own"rules."
Ron"Waters:"Yeah."
Ron"Waters:"And"thats"what"she"did."Cause"the"other"people"sittin"there"watching"arent"gonna"that"
shit."Plus,"she"was"makin"pretty"good"damn"money."She"was"makin"what?"Um,"ninety"grand?"
Tyron"Ali:"Ninety"thousand,"yeah,"umm"hmm."
Ron"Waters:"That"shit"dont"fly"over"well"either"when"other"people"workin"next"to"you"makin"twenty."
"
1:32:19"
Ron"Waters:"Workin"harder"than"you."So,"it"looks"like"were"gonna"have"a"meeting"with"Vince,"um,"
anything"that"you"might"need"for"me"to"say,"that"is"a"segue"into,"um,"why"I"thought"it"was"important"for"
the"two"of"yall"meet""will"be"helpful"to"me."To"make"sure"that,"um,"I"think"for"the"most"part,"I"could"just"
bounce."We"could"just"bounce"off"each"other."
Ron"Waters:"But"theres"certain"things"that"I"do"need"to"know."Uh,"without"being"a"lobbyist"for"you,"Im"
not"allowed"to"do"that,"but"at"the"same"time,"make"sure"that"I"am""at"the"same"time,"helpin"facilitate,"
um,"something"that"would"be"in"their"best"interest,"because,"if"not,"theyre"still"fallin"short."Were"
collectin"under"thirty"percent,"or"whatever"that"number"might"be."I"dont"know"what"it"might"be""
maybe"he"knows,"but,"he"knows"its"a"lot."If"its"seventy"percent,"probably"made"up"of""is"that"seventy"
percent"all"hard"collect?"Or"is"that"collections"of"everything"that"is"due"the"Parking"Authority?"
Tyron"Ali:"Thats"everything"thats"due"the"Parking"Authority."
Ron"Waters:"So,"you"got"a"lot"of"that"seventy"percent"who"are"people"who"just"pay"they"tickets"anyway."
Ron"Waters:"Like,"people"who"got"a"ticket,"all"right?"Twenty"six"dollar"ticket"Im"gonna"go"pay"that"
twentyNsix"dollar"ticket,"and"whatever"that"uh,"that"short"period"is,"so"that"you"dont"have"to"also"incur"
the"um,"penalties."
Tyron"Ali:"Right"because"theyve"got"a"collection"agency"handling"the"dunning"notices."
52"
"
T""65""March"14,"2011"
Tyron"Ali:"They"have"one"doing"the"dunning"notices"and"they"dont"typically"call"folks.""
Ron"Waters:"Okay."
Tyron"Ali:"What"they"will"do"is"dun"you"to"death."
Ron"Waters:"Okay."
Tyron"Ali:"And"its"worked"pretty"well"for"em."
Ron"Waters:"What"does"dun"mean?"
Tyron"Ali:"Dun"is"a"dunning"notice."It"tells"you"that"you"owe"money"to"a"creditor."
Ron"Waters:"Okay."
Tyron"Ali:"Um,"the"creditor"in"that"situation"being"the"Parking"Authority."
Ron"Waters:"Right."
Tyron"Ali:"Now,"if"we"can"get"a"small"slice"of"that,"and,"and,"honestly,"Ron,"and"truth"and"in"fact,"exactly"
what"you"just"said,"there"NN""
Ron"Waters:"Right.""
Tyron"Ali:"NN"is"exactly"what"I"need"you"to"tell"him."
Ron"Waters:"Oh"yeah?"
Tyron"Ali:"Yes."Exactly"that."I"mean,"because"we"cant"get"into"the"nuances"of"the"financial"NN"
Ron"Waters:"Right."
Tyron"Ali:"NN"picture,"because"we"dont"know"the"exact"amount."
Ron"Waters:"Right."
Tyron"Ali:"Any"documentation"that"might"be"available"publicly"NN"
Ron"Waters:"Right."
Tyron"Ali:"NN"is"already,"in"essence,"too"far"gone"to"make"our"argument"current."
Ron"Waters:"Okay."
Tyron"Ali:"Our"argument"has"to"be"on"the"issue."
Ron"Waters:"Okay."
53"
"
T""65""March"14,"2011"
Tyron"Ali:"That"they"need"a"minori""it"doesnt"even"have""its"not"even"minori""its,"its"not"even"about"
minority."They"just"need"another"collection"agency."Because"NN""
Ron"Waters:"They"already"got"a"minority"with"[inaudible]."
Tyron"Ali:"Because""it,"it,"it"doesnt"matter."The"point"is,"Im"tryin"to"be"in"a"position,"or"to"situate"our"
relationship"NN""
Tyron"Ali:"NN"so"that"we"are"beyond"that"whole,"oh"well."
Tyron"Ali:"You"know"what"I"mean?""
Ron"Waters:"MmNhm."
Tyron"Ali:"I"want"it"to"be"a"true"partnership"between"us,"because"this"will"help"you"do"some"things"that"
you"need"to"do."
Ron"Waters:"Alright."Okay."
Tyron"Ali:"As"I"told"your"girl"earlier"today,"things"change."
Ron"Waters:"Yeah."
Tyron"Ali:"Gotta"be"able"to"move."
Ron"Waters:"Yeah."
Tyron"Ali:"You"cant"take"it"for"granted,"because""let"me"ask"you"a"question:"how"much"did"you"raise"last"
cycle?"
Ron"Waters:"Uh,"election"cycle?""
Tyron"Ali:"Yes."
Ron"Waters:"I"dont"even"know."
Tyron"Ali:"Lets"assume"it"was"NN"
Ron"Waters:"Not"a"lot,"I"know."
Tyron"Ali:"You"think"fifty?"
Ron"Waters:"Probably"[inaudible]."
Tyron"Ali:"You"think"that"will"be"enough"this"time?"
54"
"
T""65""March"14,"2011"
Ron"Waters:"For"the"next"election?"
"
1:35:35"
Ron"Waters:"I"dont"know."I"always"like"to"have"more"than"I"have."I"know"that"some"of"these"guys,"these"
guys,"um,"and"a"lot"of"it"comes"from"people"who"live"in"atNrisk"districts."Kind"of"people"that"will"lose"it"to"
a"Republican"or"vice"versa."Usually"have"the"ability"to"raise"more"money,"and"so,"for"me,"its"kinda"hard,"
because"Im"the"stage"at"[inaudible]district,"if"I"lose"its"gonna"be"to"another"Democrat."You"know,"I""but"
"I""but"I"would"like"to,"I"would"love"to"be"able"to"have"at"least""its"not"any,"anything"unreasonable,"
you"know?""[Inaudible]"wish"I"had"like"a"hundred"grand."
Tyron"Ali:"Yeah,"yeah."And"I"am"telling"you"NN""
Ron"Waters:"[Inaudible]"that"uh,"I"mean,"people"would"even""this,"I"mean""my"reputation"in"my"
community"and"stuff"is"service"as[inaudible]over"there."But,"of"course,"the"other"part"people"look"at"it"
too,"is"how"much"money"does"a"person"have."
"
1:36:52"
Tyron"Ali:"Ill"tell"you"something:"you"can"count"on"our"support."Period."Moneys"not"really"an"issue"for"
me."Lot"of"people"have"that"issue."I"dont,"you"know?"
Ron"Waters:"Okay."
Tyron"Ali:"And"Im"not"sayin"that"to"say"it,"Im"just"saying,"It"is"what"it"is."
Ron"Waters:"Okay."It"is"what"it"is."[Laughs]""
Tyron"Ali:""It"is"what"it"is."
Ron"waters:""Aint"braggin"if"its"facts,"you"know?"Theres"a"difference"between"the"two."
Tyron"Ali:"And"its""and"I"dont"know"if"its"fortunate"or"unfortunate,"but"its"been"that"way"for"a"long"
time."You"know,"but""Ill"tell"you"something:"somebody"asked"me"if"I"feel"discriminated"against"and"I"
said,"I"do."Im"in"a"situation"where"Im"neither"black"nor"white."
Tyron"Ali:"Right?"Although"we"understand"that"I"gravitate"to"this"side"of"the"table."
Ron"Waters:"Right."
55"
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T""65""March"14,"2011"
Tyron"Ali:"Because"I"grew"up"in"Logan,"I"understand"it."But,"if"I"were"white,"Id"probably"have"an"easier"
time"NN"
Ron"Waters:"Oh,"absolutely."
Tyron"Ali:"NNmoving"through"certain"issues."And,"if"I"was"black,"I"would"probably"have"an"easier"time"
moving"through."The"fact"that"Im"an"anomaly""Im"Indian,"Im"from"Logan,"Im"Catholic,"you"know?"Its"
one"of"the""Who"is"that"guy?"You"know?"
Ron"Waters:"Nah,"you"know"what"though?"I"think"a"lot"of"people"maybe"ask"that"question,"but"you"know"
a"lot"[laughs+],you"do"your"homework."[Laughs]"You"do"your"homework,"man."
Tyron"Ali:"My"dad"always"used"to"say,"It"doesnt"matter"what"else"is"goin"on"NN"
Tyron"Ali:"NN"as"long"as"you"have"the"information."
Ron"Waters:"Thats"exactly"right."
Tyron"Ali:"It"is"what"it"is,"right?"
Ron"Waters:"It"is"what"it"is."
Tyron"Ali:"And"beyond"that,"I"mean,"I"want"you"to"be"in"a"position"where"you"can"actually"help"some"of"
these"folks."Ill"tell"you"somethin:"your"girl"gon"need"ya!"
Ron"Waters:"Whos"that?"
Tyron"Ali:"Vanessa."Shes"gonna"need"some"help."
Tyron"Ali:"Shes"gonna"need"some"help,"""
Ron"Waters:"Been"meanin"to"tell"ya,"you"know"who"saved"her"the"last"time,"but"that"helps"not"gonna"
be"there"this"time.""
Tyron"Ali:"Dwight."
Ron"Waters:"Yup."
Tyron"Ali:"Yup."
Ron"Waters:"Because"he"hated""and"I"had"to"tell"her,"Geez,"I"said,"oh,"thats"your"best"hand,"I"said,"
You"gonna"get"help"because"of"him"[inaudible]."I"told"her."Cause"I,"I"knew"it"based"on"what"I"knew"
about"people"who,"who"come"to"her"aid."Who,"like"Dwight"NN"
56"
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T""65""March"14,"2011"
Ron"Waters:"Cant"stand"her"father."So""I"mean"not"her"father,"but"his"father."
Tyron"Ali:"His"father,"yes."
Ron"Waters:"And,"so"I"knew"that"was"gonna"automatically"bring"her"to"him."If"Tommy"woulda"ran,"that"
help"wouldnt"have"been"there,"okay?""The"thing"that,"that,"um,"that"Vincent"did,"with"giving""lettin"her"
take"credit"for"that"medical"center"on"52nd"St.""that"million"dollars?"That"had"been"in"the"pipeline"for"
over"six"years."And"when"Tarique"was"runnin"around"sayin"she"was"bringin"him"back"to"the"district,"
playing"on"peoples"ignorance""I"mean,"shit,"she"just"got"there."What"the"hell"she"supposed"to"bring"
back"that"fast"anyway?"But,"he"made"a"deal"all"of"a"sudden,"thats"when"Dwight"said"okay,"you"know,"uh,"
they"went"and"did"some"searchin"to"find"out"what"kinda"projects"that"had"been"dormant,"and"just"let"
her"go"up"there"and"get"the"[inaudible]."That"money"prob""that"money"still"aint"got"to"many"people."
[Inaudible]"so"Vince"and"I"told"him"to"his"credit,"I"said,"You"a"great"guy,"man."You"let"her"take"credit"for"
that"project,"knowin"that"it"was"really"somethin"that"you"did."He"was"just""he"said,"Look."And"then"
Dwight"did,"you"know,"what"Dwight"just"did"that"to"put"Tarique"down."You"aint"got"to"get""so,"she"not"
gonna"get"that."Were"not"even"gonna"be"there"for"her,"fact"I"said,"if"Tommy"ran?"Dwight"would"be"
there.""Maybe"he"[inaudible]"cause"it"looked"like"Tommy"[inaudible]."
Ron"Waters:"Hes""I"dont"know"if"he"would"NN"
Tyron"Ali:"Plus,"he"was"busy"cutting"deals"that"he"had"no"right"to"cut."
Ron"Waters:"It"musta""its"something"about"that"district."Mike"Horsey"did"the"same"shit,"man."
Tyron"Ali:"Well"people"see"it"as"land,"and"they"see"it"as"being"underdeveloped,"underutilized,"
underappreciated."
Ron"Waters:"Right."
Tyron"Ali:"So,"you"know,"most"of"us"who"are"in"that"business,"they"tend"to"think"from"time"to"time"that"
theres"a"possibility.""
Ron"Waters:"Right."
Tyron"Ali:"You"know,"and"we"will"do"whatevers"necessary"[inaudible]."Breathe"life"into"that."Of"course,"
that"doesnt"always"work."You"know,"this"prison"situation"up"at"63rd"and"Ludlow."
Tyron"Ali:"I"mean,"I"dont"know"what"your"thoughts"are,"but"you"know"we"should"reach"out"to"Jim"
Graham"at"some"point"next"week"and"then"make"him"come"up"here."Dont"cut"him"any"slack."Make"him"
come"up"here"and"the"three"of"us"sit"down"and"have"dinner."
Ron"Waters:"Yeah,"he"[inaudible]."I"wanna"talk"to"him"to"find"out"what"the"hell"happened."Because""a"girl"
"who,"who""the"lawyer"who"he"had"show"up"for"him"in"court?"Only"infuriated"the"situation."When"the"
57"
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T""65""March"14,"2011"
Zoning"Board"asked"her,"Well"why"didnt"you"go"through"the"proper"protocol"before"you"did"the"zoning?"
Did"you"talk"to"the"community?"She"said,"No."We"were"trying"to"expedite"the"project."
Tyron"Ali:"Who"was"the"attorney"who"said"that?"
Ron"Waters:"It"was"a"white"lady"who"came"up"and"said""the,"the,"the"developer."I"cant""I"dont"know"
her"name,"man."I"could"get"it."
Tyron"Ali:"Yes,"get"it."So"we"know"who"not"to"deal"with."
Ron"Waters:"I"cant"believe"she"said"that"in"front"of"all"those"people,"including"the"Zoning"Board,"like,"did"
you"say"that"[inaudible]"you"just"wanted"to"step"on"this"community?"That"wasnt"cause"it"was,"to""it"
was""it""expedited"for"your"interests"and"fuck""I"dont"believe"she"said"that,"man."So,"I"say"that"this"
way"that"he,"he"only,"um,"and"Nicoletti,"only"put"another"nail"in"their"coffin"or"maybe"another"few"nails"
in"their"coffin."It"was"bad"enough"already."
Tyron"Ali:"Mark"is"not"really"known"for"his"communication"skills."
Ron"Waters:"Okay."
Tyron"Ali:"He"drinks"too"much,"okay?"[Laughs]"
Ron"Waters:"Okay."
Tyron"Ali:"Ive"been"to"many"parties"with"Mark."
Ron"Waters:"Okay,"but"hes"got"a"lot"of"money."
Tyron"Ali:"Uh,"well,"yes,"uh,"but"Jim,"Jim"is"a"solid"guy."Hes"a"solid"guy,"um,"and,"and"he"is"a"very"linear"
thinker."
Ron"Waters:"Right."
Tyron"Ali:"So"I"can"have"a"conversation"with"him."Like,"look,"this"is"NN""
Tyron"Ali:"I"can"have"a"conversation"with"him""a"very"direct"conversation,"you"know?"But"again,"its,"its"
a""you"and"I"will"talk"about"it."You"know,"sometime"this"week,"because"Im"gonna"tell"you"something:"
the"revenue"dollars"that"will"come"out"of"that"NN"
Ron"Waters:"But,"thats"why"N"this"is""for"me,"when"you"check"out"Jim,"and"Nicoletti,"and"just"talk"about"
it?"Only"thing"I"ask"them"is"NN"
Tyron"Ali:""Excuse"me,"hun?"Excuse"me?"Can"I"have"the"check"please?"
Felicia:"Sure."
58"
"
T""65""March"14,"2011"
Ron"Waters:"Only"thing"I"ask"them"advice"on"is"how"to"do"it"right."
Tyron"Ali:"Yes."
Ron"Waters:"And"then"you"got"me"there,"that""I"can"talk"about"how"people"need"to"come"to"this"
decision"openNminded."
Tyron"Ali:""MmmNhmm."
Ron"Waters:"But"the"way"he"did"it"now,"hes"has"[inaudible]"because"you"dont"say"that"to"the"crowd."
Because,"he""especially"with"that"attorney"showin"up,"man."So"what"he"has"to"do"now,"I"have""he"has"
to"think"about"the"stuff"he"wants"to"do,"on"his"own."He"needs"to"get"in""he"needs"to"set"foot"in"
community"meetings."
Ron"Waters:"Now."
Tyron"Ali:""Here"you"go,"darling.""
Ron"Waters:"This"NN"
Tyron"Ali:"Can"I"have"a,"uh,"receipt"please?"
Felicia:"Sure."
Ron"Waters:"This"is"all"in"the"papers"man."Its"been"the"front"page"of"the"papers"the"last"two"weeks."
Ron"Waters:"Everybody"talkin"about"it,"all"over"Philadelphia."Its"big,"its"a"big"stink."He"has"to"try"to"
figure"out"how"to"put"these"fires"out."I"dont,"you"know,"and"I"dont"know"how"he"does"that."
Tyron"Ali:""Well"
Ron"Waters:"But"the"community"already"is"suspect."
Tyron"Ali:"He"needs"the"right"guy"to"talk"to"the"right"guy."Right?"
Ron"Waters:"We"got""yeah!"No"NN"
Ron"Waters:"Yeah!""
59"
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T""65""March"14,"2011"
Tyron"Ali:""Okay."
Ron"Waters:""He"need"to"sit""all"right,"you"got."But"I"dont"want""I"cant"do"it"in"a"public"places,"or"
anything."Thats"how"bad"it"is."Ima"tell"you"this:"the,"the,"the,"the"um,"the"temperament"in"the"
community"right"now"is"outrage."Anybody"I"talk"to,"Hell"no."Hell"no,"not"my"community,"and"he"had"a"
chance"to"do"it"right."He"had"a"chance"to"do"it"right.""Because"the"taxes,"the"revenue,"and"the"community"
coulda"asked"for"something."You"know,"the"community"coulda"asked"for"somethin.+
Ron"Waters:"Some,"some,"some"security"that"theres"gonna"be"something,"a"benefit"for"them"outside"of"
whatever"jobs"or"vending"opportunities"that"maybe"they"can"pursue"a,"a"commitment"for"something"
else"in"the"community"that"NN""
Tyron"Ali:""Let"me"tell"you"something:"Mark"and"his"team"are"people"that"are"takers."Period.""
Ron"Waters:"Right."
Tyron"Ali:"So,"in"order"to"combat"people"who"take"NN"
Tyron"Ali:""NN"what"you"have"to"do"is"move"the"food"source."
Ron"Waters:"Uh"huh."[Laughs]"
Tyron"Ali:"And"the"food"source"in"this"case,"are"the"activist"community."
Ron"Waters:"Yeah."
Tyron"Ali:""So,"if"you"shift"them"into"play,"NN"
Tyron"Ali:"NN"cause"right"now"theyre"out"of"play."
Ron"Waters:"Right!"
Tyron"Ali:""You"shift"them"into"play,"NN"
Ron"Waters:"Right."
Tyron"Ali:"NN"youll"be"all"right."
Ron"Waters:"Well,"thats"what"he"gotta"do,"cause"they"are"definitely"out"there"right"now."Im"tryin"to"
get"him"to"put"them"in"play."Im"like,"Yeah,"talk"to"these"people,"let"em"know."He"didnt"do"none"of"it.""
Tyron"Ali:""You"cant"have"that"kind"of"conversation"with"him."Jim"and"I?"
60"
"
T""65""March"14,"2011"
Ron"Waters:"I"think,"I"think"what"Nicoletti"done"did"was,"when"you"say"hes"a"taker,"I"believe"that"NN"
Tyron"Ali:"Im"tellin"ya,"I"know"Mark""NN"
Ron"Waters:"Not"Jim."I"look"at"Mark"NN"
Tyron"Ali:""Jim"is,"Jim"is"a"leaner"thinker,"he"is"a"logical"thinking"human"being."Mark"is"a"businessman,"you"
know?"And"while"we"are"probably"all"businessmen,"uh"NN""
Tyron"Ali:"I"just"think.""Thank"you,"dear."I"just"think"NN"
Tyron"Ali:"Thats"for"you,"doll."Thanks.""
Felicia:"Thank"you."
Tyron"Ali:"I"just"think"that,"uh,"you"know"theres"room,"theres"room"for"uh,"theres"room"for"negotiation."
Ron"Waters:"It"is."
Tyron"Ali:"Thats"just"my"opinion."
Ron"Waters:"It"is."He"got"a"lotta"cleanin"up"to"do"though."
Tyron"Ali:""Yes"it"is."
Ron"Waters:"Because"he"had"some"people"in"the"community"that"are"activists"in"their"own"right."
Tyron"Ali:"Uh"huh."
Ron"Waters:"Who"be"knowin"how"to"do"this"and"has"street"credibility,"and"he"got"the"newspapers"
against"him"too."So"he"gone"take"some"cleaning"up."
Tyron"Ali:""Well,"look"man,"I"think,"you"know.""Just"as"you"see"Im"tryin"to"help"you?""Help"me,"help"you."
Ron"Waters:"Okay."
Tyron"Ali:"You"know,"I"hate"to"borrow"the"line"from"Jerry"McGuire"
Tyron"Ali:""but"thats"exactly"what"it"is."You"gotta"help"me,"help"you."
Ron"Waters:"Look,"when,"when,"when"[inaudible]"Vince."
Tyron"Ali:"Youll"be,"youll"be,"uh,"Cuba"Gooding"Jr."Okay?"[Laughs]"
61"
"
T""65""March"14,"2011"
Ron"Waters:"Junior."
Felicia:"Thank"you."
Tyron"Ali:""Thank"you"dear,"goodnight.""
"
1:47:32"
Tyron"Ali:"I"will,"uh,"Ill"give"you"a"call""oh,"well,"were"gonna"go"out"the"same"way."
Ron"Waters:"Yeah."
Tyron"Ali:"Im"going"to"uh,"Ill"give"you"a"call"tomorrow"NN"
Ron"Waters:"Okay."
Tyron"Ali:""NN"and"then"uh,"or"Vince"calls"you,"just"send"me"a"text"message."
Ron"Waters:"Okay."
Tyron"Ali:"And"then"Ill"probably"see"you"if"not"Wednesday,"definitely"Thursday."
Ron"Waters:"Definitely"Thursday."
Tyron"Ali:"And"Friday."
Unknown"Female:"[Inaudible]"
Tyron"Ali:""Hi,"good"evening."
Ron"Waters:"All"right."Cause"Thursday,"you"know"NN""
Ron"Waters:"Yeah,"Thursday"at"Sandras.""What"time"[inaudible]?"
Tyron"Ali:""You"know"what,"uh,"what"time"is"it?"Eight"oclock?""
Ron"Waters:"[sighs]"
Tyron"Ali:"I"know"its"later"in"the"evening,"I"just"gotta"figure"out"where"they"have"me."Uh,"Im"sure"Im"in"
Philadelphia,"but"I"dont"know"what,"what,"whats"on"my"calendar"for"that"time."
Ron"Waters:"You"know"where"it"is,"right?"Its"at"Galdos."
Tyron"Ali:""Yeah."They"sent"me"the"eNvite,"so"Im"sure"it"has"all"the"ticket"information"on"there"and"all"the"
other"good"stuff."
62"
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T""65""March"14,"2011"
Ron"Waters:"Yeah."Yeah."
Tyron"Ali:"But"see,"I"need"to"talk"to"Sam"because"we"dont"know"whats"goin"on"with"Ivy."All"right,"
brotha."
Ron"Waters:"Oh,"he"didnt""oh,"oh,"oh"yeah.""
Tyron"Ali:""you"know?"We"dont"know"whats"goin"on"with"Ivy.""
Ron"Waters:"Okay."
Tyron"Ali:"But,"uh,"Ill"be"in"touch"with"you"tomorrow."
Ron"Waters:"Okay."[Inaudible]"
Tyron"Ali:""All"right."If"you"hear"from"him"first,"just"give"me"a"call."
Ron"Waters:"I"will."
Ron"Waters:"No,"thank"you."
1:48:35"
"
1:49:00"
Tyron"enters"vehicle"
[Background+noise]"
"
1:49:56"
Investigator"Claude"Thomas:"The"time"is"21:28"hundred"hours."Again,"on"todays"date,"being"Monday,"
March"the"14th,"year"2011."This"tape"is"now"being"deactivated."
63"
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T""69""March"17,"2011"(Part"1)"
"
Investigator" Claude" Thomas:" This" is" Claude" Thomas," Senior" Supervisory" Special" Agent," Pennsylvania"
Office" of" Attorney" General," Badge" number" 118," A" certification" number" is" A1418." " Today's" date" is"
Thursday,"March"17th,"year"2011."Current"time"is"1202"hundred"hours.""I'm"about"to"make"consensual"
intercept"between"CI"82010Q01"and"Rep."RW(Ron"Waters)"in"reference"to"investigation"number"36Q622.""
The"number"being"called"is"area"code"717Q772Q9850."
[Background+noise,+traffic]"
"
[1:01]"
[Phone+Rings]"
Female"Secretary:"Good"afternoon,"Representative"Water's"Office."
Tyron"Ali:"Uh"Hi,"Good"afternoon,"is"uh"is"Ron"in"by"any"chance?"
Female"Secretary:"Um"he"isn't..."
Tyron"Ali:"Ok...Thank"you"dear."
Female"Secretary:"[inaudible]...youre"welcome."
"
[1:28]"
Claude"Thomas:"...and"deactivated."
""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
1"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
T"69%March%17,%2011%(Part%2)%
%
Claude% Thomas:% Uh,% this% is% Claude% Thomas,% Senior% Supervisory% Special% Agent,% Pennsylvania% Office% of%
Attorney%General.%%Badge%number%118.%%A%certification%number%A1418.%%Todays%date%is%Thursday,%March%
17th,% year% 2011.% Current% time% is% 1204% hundred% hours.% % About% to% make% consensual% intercept% recording%
between% CI% 2010"01% and% Rep.% RW% in% reference% to% Investigation% Number% % 36"622.% % The% number% being%
called%is%area%code%267"246"6185.%
[0:51]'
[Phone'Rings]'
Ron%Waters:%%Hey,%this%is%Ron.%
Tyron%Ali:%%Hey%Ron,%good%afternoon%my%friend,%how%are%you%doing?%
Ron%Waters:%%Man%alright...man%I%never%heard%from%Vince...%and%um""%
Tyron%Ali:%%You%haven't%heard%from%Vince?%
Ron%Waters:%%Nope,%I%even%called%him%back.%Um,%I%left%a%message%with%his,%uh,%staff%person%and%she%said%
that%she%will%%hell%get%back%with%me%and%never%returned%the%call.%%So,%I'll%probably%call%him%again%`cause%
normally%he%gets%back%with%me.%I%know%he's%got%a%lot%he's%trying%to%deal%with%but...I%don't%think%anything%is%
going%to%happen%today...but%I%will%call%him...I%will%call%him%again.%
Tyron%Ali:%%Alright%you%know,%this%is%important%to%us%so...%
Ron%Waters:%%Oh%I%know,%I%know""%
Tyron%Ali:%%You%know%what%I%mean?""%
Ron%Waters:%%I%know""%
Tyron%Ali:%%So%if%you%reach%out%to%him%and%just%let%me%know.%The%other%thing%is%we%wanna%make%sure%
tomorrow%night...tomorrow%night%did%you%text%me%where%the%ah,%fundraiser%was%going%to%be?%
Ron%Waters:%%Uh%lemme%uh...I%know%it's%at...the%place%is%called%Keya%Graves%it's%on%like%Main%Street%and%
Woodland%Avenue%in%Delaware%County,%in%Darby%Borough,%um%I%can't...I%think%the%address%is%like%11...I'll%
get%it.%
Tyron%Ali:%%Ok,%if%you%could%just%text%it%to%me%that%would%be%great.%
Ron%Waters:%%Matter%fact,%I'm%gettin'%ready%to%go%to%an%event%with%Senior.%%His%campaign%manager%is%going%
to%be%at%the%event.%I'll%uhh%get%it%right%back%to%you.%I'll%text%you.%
Tyron%Ali:%%Ok...alright%sir,%well%see%if%you%can%get%a%hold%of%Vince,%you%know%we%would%appreciate%the%
audience""%
Ron%Waters:%%Alright%then...%%
%
%
1%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
T"69%March%17,%2011%(Part%2)%
%
Tyron%Ali:%%...and%let%me%know%what%the%address%is%going%to%be%and%I'll%be%there%tomorrow%evening.%
Ron%Waters:%%Ok.%
Tyron%Ali:%%Alright?...Alright%sir,%thank%you%bye%bye.%
Ron%Waters:%%Thanks%[cut'off]%
[3:12]'
Claude%Thomas:%%The%tape%is%being%deactivated%again,%todays%date%March%17,%2011%time%1207%hundred%
hours.%
%
%
%
2%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
T"76%March%28,%2011%
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PHILADELPHIA DISTRICT ATTORNEY'S OFFICE
3 Penn Square
19107-3499
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T-76 Mar 28th 2011
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Transcribed by:
Linda M. Shaw, Court Reporter & Notary Public
T"76%March%28,%2011%
(March 28, 2011)
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00:00
TYRON ALI:
This is Supervisory Special
Agent, Pennsylvania Office of Attorney General.
Badge Number is 118, A Certification Number is
A-1418.
recording to Rep RW, number being called is area
code 267-246-6185.
Investigation Number 36-622 on today's date,
About to make a consensual intercept
This is in reference to
10
Monday, March 28th, 2011; current time is 1928
11
00:01 hundred hours.
12
conducted with the consent of CI 2010-01. [phone ringing]
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RON WATERS:
14
TYRON ALI:
15
This recording will be
[01:10] Hello.
Hello.
Hey, Ron.
How are you
doing,sir?
16
RON WATERS:
17
TYRON ALI:
Are you in a meeting?
18
TYRON ALI:
No.
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20
21
I'm all right, man.
This is Drexel on, on TV.

TYRON ALI:
I'm just listening to

Yeah.
I was calling you because I
know that more than a week has passed by.
T"76%March%28,%2011%
thought that we would have had the Vince
situation locked up by now.
RON WATERS:
He hasn't called you?
Oh, no.
I didn't even, I
didn't even call him, I haven't called him.
will, um, call.
doing?
What's up, man?
TYRON ALI:
Yeah.
What you been
Nothing at all, just working
hard, you know, trying to make sure that we get
the right results for our clients.
10
the reasons I'm reaching out to you.
11
think you will be able to have that
12
conversation with Vince?
13
14
RON WATERS:
That's one of
When do you
I'll call, I'll call him
tomorrow.
15
TYRON ALI:
Tomorrow?
Okay.
And listen,
16
let me put this out here to you while I have you
17
on the phone.
18
I don't know what your schedule is like, but let
19
me know what day you, he, and I can sit down at
20
The Palm.
21
week.
I have a couple of days.
I'll be in Philadelphia later on this
T"76%March%28,%2011%
00:03
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
You will be in Philadelphia?

I will be.
I'll be in
Philadelphia in the the next four, maybe Thursday
and Friday.
for me.
Either one of those days will work
RON WATERS:
Well, I will, I'll be here.
will be here on, um, I'll be here Monday, Tuesday,
Wednesday, and I know Thursday, we'll be here too,
'cause we have people coming for Thursday.
10
think Thursday is only a half a day, though.
11
00:04
12
meeting with the Department of Education.
13
Department, with the School District on Thursday.
14
So, I'll be here tomorrow.
15
committee meeting tomorrow, then I have to leave
16
and go to Philly.
17
You know that prison there, they wanted
18
to build up there as Cobbs Creek and Ludlow.
Thursday, I'll be back in Philly, I have a

I mean, not the
I'll be here for a
They got a meeting tomorrow.
19
TYRON ALI:
20
RON WATERS:
21
Yes.
The community, the community up
there who was opposed to it, still wanted to, they
T"76%March%28,%2011%
had scheduled a meeting and they're
still going forward with that meeting anyway and
that meeting is tomorrow, tomorrow evening.
I'll have to leave here, ride back to Philly
tomorrow, tomorrow evening and go to that meeting.
Then I, then I'm coming back to Harrisburg, 'cause
I gotta be here first thing, oh, um, so I gotta make a
round trip tomorrow, tomorrow evening.
be back here Wednesday.
10
day.
11
go back to Philly.
So,
But I'll
Thursday, I'll be here all
Then Thursday I'll be leaving to
12
TYRON ALI:
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RON WATERS:
14
TYRON ALI:
Okay.
[04:52]
What's going on, man?

Well, you know, when I get a
15
phone call from my client and the guy's like,
16
"Hey, Ty, I thought, you know, I thought we were
17
showing some progress here."
18
you know, the thing, the thing --
19
20
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RON WATERS:
I don't,
You know, I'm gonna call Vince
right now.
TYRON ALI:
You gonna call him right now?
T"76%March%28,%2011%
Okay.
2
3
RON WATERS:
know.
I'm gonna let him know, you
I did call you last week.
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:
Right.
And, and I, you know, and, and,
you know, unless you never got my my message.
a return phone call.
on here.
TYRON ALI:
10
RON WATERS:
11
TYRON ALI:
12
13
I never got
I gotta find out what's going
Well, the phone call is -It's not so very good -Well, the phone call is one
thing -RON WATERS:
-- of him up here, man, 'cause
14
sometimes he's trying to make a move, you know,
15
that he wasn't in favor of, and you know, he needs
16
his friends up here.
17
this is the first time he ever did not
18
return the call.
19
TYRON ALI:
So, I don't know why he, he,
Yeah.
Well, you know, people
20
-- here's the thing, Ron.
You know, I support all
21
kinds of initiatives and at the end of the day,
T"76%March%28,%2011%
for us to work together, for us to do
things together, we gotta work together.
you just gotta bring him to the table.
what I'm saying?
we're in this together.
ask me to do, you know I got you.
mean?
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
fundraiser,man?
11
him?
12
You know
Because as far as I'm concerned,
10
And Vince,
You know, anything you

You know what I
Right.
And how was Tolliver with the
Everything went all right for
RON WATERS:
Yeah.
He called me up and
13
thanked me with, with, "I appreciate it."
14
didn't hear anything from, from his staff.
15
TYRON ALI:
16
RON WATERS:
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00:06
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Leslie?
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TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:
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tried.
21
Campaign Manager.
Mm-hm.
His organizers, but -Who's that; Leslie?
No, not Leslie.
Is that
Leslie, Leslie
Leslie, Leslie, the other one, like a

Leslie is like a Campaign, I
T"76%March%28,%2011%
00:07
call her the Campaign Manager.
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:
It's a woman by the name of
Audrey Harris.
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:
Who is his Campaign Manager?
Audrey Harris.
Yeah.
She's a good friend.
Mm-hm.
And Laverne, too.
A matter of
fact, I think I know, I know her better than
10
Audrey, to tell you the truth, but she's real
11
00:07
close to Elka's wife.
12
TYRON ALI:
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RON WATERS:
Mm-hm.
You know, they are all these
14
nice looking women that call themselves The Divas.
15
And, I mean, they don't call themselves Divas.
16
These were nicknames, they were given the name
17
00:07
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looking, elder woman, elderly women.
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Divas because they all, you know, nice
TYRON ALI:
Well, I'll tell you something,
20
I'll tell you the only thing that I know; you can
21
find pretty girls as long as you have guys on a
T"76%March%28,%2011%
piece of paper that's green.
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
Ha, ha, ha.

Right?
I know they're there.
So, look.
Look, listen, you
gotta talk to Vince, Ron, because look, at the end
of the day, we're trying to accomplish something
here.
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RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
Right.
And you know, if you need me,
you know I'm there.

RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
Right.
I'm telling you I need you.
14
be able to bring this thing home.
15
And, and --
16
RON WATERS:
17
TYRON ALI:
I need to
Right.
-- let him know, let him know,
18
I mean, we're right here.
If he needs to talk to
19
me, I'm there, you know.
20
truthfully, look, once this thing starts rolling,
21
as I told you, you'll have the ability to reach
22
out to other people and that will help you look
23
exactly the way we want you to look.
And, and
T"76%March%28,%2011%
10
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
Right.
Right.
So, just, just see if you can
talk to him.
You know, call him tonight, call him
tomorrow, but let's see if we can get a meeting
Thursday or Friday.
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
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11
Okay.
I gotta get this done and it
will be beneficial for you and for me.

RON WATERS:
Oh, I know.
I just, I don't
12
know why, why he didn't call me back.
13
really called him about a business or anything
14
other than what were good for his business.
15
TYRON ALI:
16
RON WATERS:
I never
Right.
But this, this could be good
17
for his business, too.
18
normally to help protect them when there was
19
something coming down there, and I think that it
20
would have been detrimental for him.
21
TYRON ALI:
But it was
Mm-hm.
T"76%March%28,%2011%
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RON WATERS:
But I don't know.
I'll call
him.
didn't call me back or maybe he didn't get the
message.
He might have a good reason for why he
I don't know.
TYRON ALI:
Well, you know, the truth of
the matter is, whether or not he calls you is
irrelevant, and something that, honestly, it's not
really my business.
home the contract.
10
What's my concern?
Bringing
You know that and I know that,
'cause we're bringing jobs to Philadelphia.
11
RON WATERS:
12
TYRON ALI:
Right.
We're bringing revenue to
13
Philadelphia.
And at the end of the day, what are
14
we trying to accomplish?
15
two things.
16
that our client is happy, because once our client
17
is happy, I'm happy, then I make you
18
happy.
We're also just trying to make sure
Right?
19
RON WATERS:
20
TYRON ALI:
21
back.
Not just one of those
Right [laughing].
All right, man.
Let me know tomorrow.
Well, call me
All right?
T"76%March%28,%2011%
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00:10
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RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
care.
All right.
I will.
All right, Brother.
Take
Bye, bye.
TYRON ALI:
Tape is being deactivated at
1938 hundred hours.

(End of recording.)
T"76%March%28,%2011%
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____________________________
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Linda M. Shaw, Notary Public
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3 South Penn Square

19107-3499
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T-77 Apr 1st 2011
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Transcribed by:
Linda M. Shaw, Court Reporter & Notary Public
(April 1, 2011)
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(00:00:00)
CLAUDE THOMAS:
Special Agent,
Pennsylvania Office of Attorney General, Badge
Number 118, A Certification Number is A 1418,
today's date is Monday, excuse me, today's date is
Friday, April 1st, year 2011, current time is
10:57:00 hours.
This recording device will be placed on
10
CIA 2010-01, in reference to Investigation Number
11
(00:00:12) 36-622.
12
location within the confines of the City and
13
County of Philadelphia to meet with RON WATERS and
14
individual VF in reference to this Investigation
15
Number.
16
(00:00:52) activated until I deactivate it after
17
the meeting.
18
(00:03:25)
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up a little.
20
(00:04:12)
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I'm here to see a Vince Fennerty.
I will be proceeding to a
This tape will, recording will remain
MAN'S VOICE:
TYRON ALI:
Sir, you need to pull
Good morning.
Thank you.
(00:04:14)
2
3
MAN'S VOICE:
Second floor.
It's
Elevator A.
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5
What floor is he on?
TYRON ALI:
Thank you.
(Elevator
sounds.)
MAN'S VOICE:
TYRON ALI:
MANS VOICE: --[inaudible]-- (Elevator sounds.)
TYRON ALI:
9
10
11
morning.
Basement?
No.
Please, please.
Hi, good
I'm here to see Vince Fennerty.

WOMAN:
Do you have an appointment with
(00:06:42) him?
12
TYRON ALI:
13
WOMAN'S VOICE:
14
TYRON ALI:
15
WOMAN'S VOICE:
16
TYRON ALI:
17
RON WATERS:
18
TYRON ALI:
19
RON WATERS:
20
TYRON ALI:
21
Hi.
We do.
Thank you.
Did you park downstairs?
No.
No?
What's your name?
Tyron Ali.
Yes.
(on phone) Hey.

Hey, Ron, are you here?
Yeah, I'm here.
Oh, I'm here too.
(00:07:32)RON WATERS: Im in Vinces office. Where are you?
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
WOMAN:
TYRON ALI:
11
12
13
I am.
(inaudible)
Okay.
Thank you.
We'll come and get you.

Okay.
Thank you.
Hi.
WOMAN:
Come on back.
Thank you.
Nothing has started yet.
(00:09:47)TYRON ALI:
WOMAN:
Okay.
Okay.
We're going to move back
to this blue area.
14
TYRON ALI:
15
(Sound of many people talking.)
16
TYRON ALI:
17
WOMAN:
18
Good morning.
Thank you.
I guess
you're meeting in here.

RON WATERS:
20
Betty White, the D.J.
22
Okay.
I guess, I don't know.
19
21
Hi.
Thank you.
10
Yeah.
All right.
I am on the second floor.
WOMAN:
And then, it was backwards, was

And then it was one more.
Youre welcome to have a seat.
Okay.
Good morning.
(00:10:53)RON WATERS:
All right.
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:
RICK DICKSON:
TYRON ALI:
RICK DICKSON:
TYRON ALI:
10
How are you, sir?

All right.
Good.
This is Rick Dickson.
Hi.
Hi.
What's your name?
Tyron Ali.
RICK DICKSON:
11
12
you.
Tyron Ali.
How you doing?
Tyra?
Tyron Ali.
Nice to meet
Nice to meet you.
13
RON WATERS:
Yeah.
14
VINCE FENNERTY:
15
TYRON ALI:
16
RON WATERS:
17
TYRON ALI:
18
VINCE FENNERTY:
19
RON WATERS:
20
WOMAN:
[inaudible]
21
Sit down.
It was.
Relax.
Thanks.
I dont know where I'm sitting yet.
Where?
Yeah.
21
But, um, yeah.
Okay.
We'll just roam around.
Okay.
I mean, [inaudible] it was Emma.
I'm gonna tell you, though, if
(00:11:35)it wasn't for this opportunity that just
came out of nowhere, now, you know, I been
thinking about this, Rick.
this June will make the twelfth year that since
when I was sworn in.
RICK DICKSON:
RON WATERS:
I've been doing this,
You're kidding?
Yeah.
I'm like, you know, when
I started here, a person in the first grade now is
graduating from high school, you know.
10
twelve years, you know.
11
(00:11:52)that kind of stuff.
12
13
But when you started here at
the Parking Authority -RON WATERS:
15
RICK DICKSON:
Yeah, that was '86.

-- you and I both had
hair.
17
RON WATERS:
18
RICK DICKSON:
19
WOMAN:
20
RON WATERS:
21
You gotta think about
RICK DICKSON:
14
16
It's
Yeah, we did.
Right.
Dark hair.
Right.
Bring a picture tomorrow.

Yeah.
Dark hair.
Rick, Rick
(00:12:08)and I'm trying to think of who else,
(00:12:08)Hoppy, and you know this class I'm
putting you in, and I guess maybe Steve Aven (phonetic),
what class was that?
WOMAN:
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
WOMAN:
RON WATERS:
Hoppy and --
What class?
What class was that?
What are you talking about?
Like gentlemen?
Yeah.
No, no, no, no.
RICK DICKSON:
11
12
had you (inaudible)
13
RICK DICKSON:
Ah.
Okay.
Hoppy.
See, I trust out to that,
RON WATERS:
Yeah.
Me too, man.
16
wait to get out of that suit and tie.
17
week, you know.
18
20
21
They should have
too.
15
19
The
best-dressed class.
10
14
Corrine?
I couldn't
Waited all
But I gotta --
RICK DICKSON:
You guys in session this
week?
RON WATERS:
(00:12:43)RICK DICKSON:
I'm on a probation now.

Oh, okay.
(00:12:43)So, we meet every department gets money
from us, from, from the state.
UNKNOWN MALE:
RON WATERS:
Except us.
A justification.
Y'all give money away.
No, not you
guys.
Y'all gotta give
money.
anything.
for the last two weeks now, different department.
I guess they gonna be trying to say the Department
Y'all don't have to worry about getting

But, yeah, but that's the, ever been
10
gonna have to write more tickets, because you
11
(00:13:17)know, they cut back on money for the
12
schools.
13
WOMAN:
Yes.
14
RON WATERS:
Yes.
Three hundred million dollars.
15
I don't know how y'all gonna make up that
16
difference.
17
UNKNOWN MALE:
You know, some people --
18
UNKNOWN MALE:
Don't look for it here.
19
RON WATERS:
20
it.
21
(00:13:24)UNKNOWN MALE:
Some people don't even look for
What was it?
It's almost
(00:13:25)700 million dollars they were talking
about yesterday.
RON WATERS:
That's crazy.
from.
That's crazy.
I don't where the money's coming
We ought to make you guys city-wide.
6
7
What?
RICK DICKSON:
Don't give us any more jobs,
Ron, please.
RON WATERS:
Y'all have --
RICK DICKSON:
We don't need any more
10
jobs.
11
12
gonna stop the booting from banking hours.
13
WOMAN:
14
RON WATERS:
This guy on the job, man.
That was me, actually.

When I was there. The booting, like,
15
two o'clock in the afternoon.
16
about it.
17
18
You don't have to worry
You can park a car anywhere.

RICK DICKSON:
That's why Vince was a boot
--
19
WOMAN:
20
TYRON ALI:
21
He
That was actually my idea.

I'm Tyron, I'm Tyron Ali.
(00:14:19)RICK DICKSON:
This was a booting supervisor that
10
works from 10 to 2.
RON WATERS:
WOMAN:
VINCE FENNERTY:
WOMAN:
We
So, your little advantage is
Sunday.
VINCE FENNERTY:
11
(00:14:22)night.
12
the night.
14
Booting, booting works 24/7
Well, we boot till 1 a.m.
RON WATERS:
10
13
10 a.m. and 2 p.m.
don't boot afternoons.
8
9
Right.
every day except Sunday.
6
7
We boot --
We release in the middle of the
We tow in the middle of
RON WATERS:
Because the livestop was only
in the 6th and the 9th when I was here.
15
WOMAN:
Right.
16
RON WATERS:
17
WOMAN:
18
VINCE FENNERTY:
It wasn't like it is now.
And the 3rd and the 4th.

Six, nine, three, four, then
19
it went to the expressways and the Boulevard, and
20
then city-wide.
21
(00:14:39)there.
That was when John Street was

That's a long time ago.
11
(00:14:39)
RON WATERS.
MAN:
WOMAN:
MAN:
RICK DICKSON:
Yeah.
2001 or '02.
It was '02.
Two.
Yeah.
The wildest summer of
my life.
RON WATERS:
Lot of changes, then he took
over monitoring the taxicabs and those guys got
their complaining in about the medallion costs too
10
much.
11
(00:15:00)VINCE FENNERTY:
12
money.
13
14
RON WATERS:
VINCE FENNERTY:
19
They don't want
It's the cost of doing
business for everybody.
17
18
Sure they are.
to pay for the credit card, you know.
15
16
They're making tons of
WOMAN:
The processing fees are very
high.
VINCE FENNERTY:
Twenty-four percent.
How
20
many of them would have been killed, okay, if they
21
(00:15:17)still were carrying hundreds of dollars
12
(00:15:19)in cash in their pockets.
targeted anymore.
They're not
3
4
VINCE FENNERTY:
The other thing is, we
programmed it so everybody has gotta basically
give them a tip.
tip."
four, five dollars, or other.
You have to hit a button, "No
We have tip on the credit card two, three,
RON WATERS:
10
Really?
VINCE FENNERTY:
11
(00:15:36)agree with fare?
12
two, three, four, five?"
13
RON WATERS:
14
VINCE FENNERTY:
Okay. So, they just hit, "Do you

Yes.
How much tip,
Hit it, total.
Okay.
Okay.
Most of the cab drivers will
15
tell you, they're making more money with us.
16
the one --
17
WOMAN:
18
VINCE FENNERTY:
It's
He's gotta pay taxes.

It's the ones, they all, you
19
know -- well, the fact is, is they all think we're
20
a branch of the Internal Revenue Service, that
21
(00:15:55)now, they gotta claim for more than 10
13
(00:15:56)dollars a shift.
2
3
UNKNOWN MALE:
They suspect the process fee.
They don't trust America.
RON WATERS: Most of the people that
are driving these taxi cabs, they barely speak
English, man, you know, so.
7
8
WOMAN:
Well, they have to take a
English class before they get --
RON WATERS:
Wait a minute.
10
Come here and tell me your argument.
11
(00:16:12)WOMAN:
12
No, no, no.

(Laughing)
All right
VINCE FENNERTY:
About a year ago I went to a
13
meeting at an unnamed State Rep's office outside
14
the city.
15
RON WATERS:
16
VINCE FENNERTY:
17
Uh-huh.
The cab drivers kept
harassing him.
18
RON WATERS:
Okay.
19
VINCE FENNERTY:
20
went outside.
21
(00:16:21)me two questions.
When it was over, everybody
I said, "Now, I want you to answer

First, how many of
14
(00:16:21)them can vote?
can vote your District, so what the fuck do you
care?"
4
5
RON WATERS:
Second, not one of them
Yeah, man.
You know what I
mean?
VINCE FENNERTY:
RON WATERS:
So, come on.
Yeah, yeah.
That's why I want
to pass a bill, I wanna introduce a bill -- I
ain't gonna pass it.
I don't know how it's gonna
10
fly.
But I talked about this the other day with
11
(00:16:47)the Secretary of Transportation about
12
the model of what I experienced when I was in
13
Atlanta.
14
I had went out to one of those clubs and I wanted
15
to get back to my hotel room.
16
telling me the cabs don't stop for people on the
17
streets.
And I was out there trying to get a cab.
You ever took a cab?
18
UNKNOWN MALE:
19
RON WATERS:
20
UNKNOWN MALE:
21
Out there, people
Not in years.
Yeah.
You ever take cabs?
No.
15
call.
3
4
RON WATERS:
You have to, you have to
You have to call them.
They
only respond by dispatch.
UNKNOWN MALE:
Wow.
WOMAN:
VINCE FENNERTY:
Yes.
If I did that here and
they said they couldn't take cabs they'd put a
contract out on me.
10
RON WATERS:
No, they wouldn't, yeah, the
11
(00:17:20)State would have to do this, so I would
12
--
13
14
VINCE FENNERTY:
But somehow the Parking
Authority would get blamed for it.
15
WOMAN:
But, do you like that idea?
16
RON WATERS:
No, but I think that, this is
17
what I think.
I think for a couple reasons, it
18
gets like, there got to be, like, a intermediary
19
between who the passenger will be and I think that
20
creates some kind of protection for the taxicab
21
(00:17:37)driver.
'Cause when he rides around, he
16
(00:17:38)don't pick anybody up.
be a black guy out there on Saturday night waiting
for a cab.
right past you, man, because you know, they just
don't pick up people who they feel suspect about.
So, I think that if you are just, if you have
called in and people have cell phones, you can
call in no matter where you are for a taxicab.
You can forget it.
VINCE FENNERTY:
And there will
He gonna ride
That's just like the pizza
10
man, Ron.
You call them to the bait house, you
11
(00:18:07)rob 'em and kill 'em.
12
RON WATERS:
13
WOMAN:
14
VINCE FENNERTY:
Yeah.
Sure.
But if I'm looking for -You know they're gonna stop
15
on the street in front of the house, so you call
16
in that address.
17
their hand.
18
before they get to the door, they rob them.
19
Okay.
They get out with the pizza in

They get to the door, or
RON WATERS:
20
with it.
21
(00:18:20)could happen.
Yeah.
But that's -- I don't go
I guess that could happen.
I guess it
17
(00:18:21)WOMAN:
But if you go to a meeting, say,
in town, and you want to get a cab real fast, by
the time you call them, you wait, like, ten,
fifteen minutes to get a dispatch --
RON WATERS:
WOMAN:
Mm-hm.
-- as opposed to in one minute
hailing it.
TYRON ALI:
Mm-hm.
VINCE FENNERTY:
10
your social visit today?
11
12
with you Vince.
13
14
What is the purpose of
I wanted to come here to speak
I have Mr. Ali.
VINCE FENNERTY:
Because you just love me so
much.
15
RON WATERS:
I just saw you the
16
other day.
I just saw you.
Happy to see
17
you again, man, you know.
18
You got John Taylor up there.
19
allies up here that's watching what you guys are
20
(00:18:55)doing.
You got me up there.

You do have some
Even the Tony Paytons and all
18
(00:21:59)them guys --
VINCE FENNERTY:
RON WATERS:
Yeah.
-- who come out with their
little petty ideas because they mad about
something, but I still have a history here.
to --
VINCE FENNERTY:
RON WATERS:
9
10
11
WOMAN:
Dennis Rosen.
That was Dennis Rosen?
13
UNKNOWN MALE:
14
VINCE FENNERTY:
15
RON WATERS:
18
19
That's right.
You guys look like --
VINCE FENNERTY:
17
You came from here.
That is right.
12
16
I got
Yeah.
Who was it?
He got old, too.
'Cause he was here when I first
started, Dennis was.

VINCE FENNERTY:
He was the Director of
Enforcement.
RON WATERS:
Yeah.
20
think he was called that.
21
He was a -- I don't
He was called Chief of
19
Enforcement then.
RON WATERS:
VINCE FENNERTY:
RON WATERS:
UNKNOWN MALE:
started.
UNKNOWN MALE:
RON WATERS:
10
He was OS 1?
No, not when we first
Oh, Barbara was.
was the head guy.

He came in '86?
RON WATERS:
12
VINCE FENNERTY:
Yeah.
RON WATERS:
17
RON WATERS:
20
He was
beginning?
VINCE FENNERTY:
19
He was then.
You thought I was here from the
16
18
Oh, yeah.
Director of (inaudible).
14
15
That's right.
When I, in '86, I believe he
11
13
No, he was OS 1.
Barbara was.
Yeah.
Yeah, I did.
I felt like I was, you know.
went through a lot of growth.

UNKNOWN MALE:
But he was all with Vince.

I went through a lot of growth.
20
(00:19:58)I mean, I might be older than Vince.
2
3
VINCE FENNERTY:
You're older than
me, too.
4
5
You are.
RON WATERS:
Sunday.
My birthday is, My birthday is
I'll be 61.
VINCE FENNERTY:
WOMAN:
VINCE FENNERTY:
UNKNOWN MALE:
10
Happy birthday.
Wow.
RON WATERS:
You're a lot older than we are.

Are you shitting me, you only 61?
I'll be 61 on Sunday.
11
12
young girls you run around with how old you are?
13
UNKNOWN MALE:
14
RON WATERS:
15
WOMAN:
16
18
UNKNOWN MALE:
21
No.
tell.
RON WATERS:
20
He doesn't tell 'em at all.
If they don't ask, he doesn't
17
19
How old do you tell these
Leave well enough alone.

Ron's version of "don't ask,
don't tell."
(Everybody laughing.)
(00:20:33) UNKNOWN MALE:
Yeah.
That's a good one.
21
I like that.
RICK DICKSON:
[inaudible] --
RON WATERS:
But I did, but you know it, though,
it don't even matter.
I think women just feel comfortable
knowing that they got someone who is, you know.
VINCE FENNERTY:
RON WATERS:
UNKNOWN MALE:
No, no, no.

You notice he said "women,"
not a woman.
10
WOMAN:
11
MAN:
12
Mm-hm.
Yeah.
Yeah, well.
13
RON WATERS:
14
VINCE FENNERTY:
15
I think over all.
RON WATERS:
17
UNKNOWN MALE:
Yeah.
Corrine is here.
We really need to change
this subject.
19
THE WOMAN:
20
UNKNOWN MALE:
21
RON WATERS:
22
He's not going to get out of
this one.
16
18
I'm waiting to hear this. Cmon.
I'm curious now.

I bet you are.
You know, I would love to be a
(00:21:10)fly on the wall, boy, when you all, when
22
(00:21:12)you girls are talking sometimes, man.
That would be very interesting.
believes that he has a client that could be
helpful in terms of, there are still some
uncollected debt due to Parking Authority.
believe that he has a client that it could be
very, could be very helpful in helping you to
collect that debt, 'cause it's millions of
dollars.
Anyway, Mr. Ali
And he
And I feel offended knowing that people
10
owe.
I used to go out there and write tickets,
11
might be every Sunday, making double-time.
12
13
RON WATERS:
I know that.
I was OS, I wasnt OS -- I mean, I
14
was always -- I was OT33.
15
VINCE FENNERTY:
16
RON WATERS:
That's right, OT33.
That's right, nobody worked
17
overtime but me.
And you know, but I enjoyed my job,
18
I did, so.
19
go out there and work in the rain and the snow and
20
the heat and a person didn't pay their debt, I
21
(00:22:13)would feel offended.
Now, people didn't pay -- if I had to
Course you guys
23
(00:22:14)didn't want the people to pay the ticket
right away.
charge, he used to get on us, like, "These people
pay the tickets in eight days.
well, that's good for them.
us because if the pillary kicks in.
VINCE FENNERTY:
And there was Steve, when he was in
What's up?"
Like,
That ain't good for
No.
We want you to pay, no
matter what.
RON WATERS:
10
done.
11
(00:22:31)you know."
12
Yeah.
No, Steve, that's what I
He go, I said, "We can't help that, Steve,
VINCE FENNERTY:
If you pay them in eight days
13
theres no --If you pay them before they become delinquent,
14
there's no double, there's no charge by ACS for contingency
15
collection or anything like that.
16
off the windshield are people we want.
17
18
RON WATERS:
21
The people who do
this, (inaudible)
19
20
All right.
So, and people who pay
VINCE FENNERTY: And then they see the big orange

boot.
Big yellow boot now.
It's yellow now?
24
RON WATERS:
It's yellow now.
You got a lot of good things.
Y'all had really, I guess, Corrinne and all of
you, 'cause Corrine said that was her, some of this
stuff was her idea.
every successful man is a woman and I understand
that.
agency has grown.
status and, and, and with a decent job.
10
But always behind
But I really appreciate the way that this

Put more people in employment
VINCE FENNERTY:
So what's your idea?
11
We winded up about three
12
years ago investing about 400 thousand dollars in
13
the Woodstock Civic Association Building.
14
a client that essentially wanted to do two things.
15
One was to create a law firm in the middle of
16
North Philadelphia.
17
us are guys from collection agency backgrounds,
18
finance backgrounds look at specific types of
19
contracts that would lend to revenue and jobs.
20
Part of the problem with most collection agencies,
21
(00:24:08)they run amuck of Federal Law 95109.
We have
And the other, because all of
25
(00:27:08)They don't typically have the resources
financially to move the debt through the system.
The other big hurdle I see over the past fifteen
years is, how do you actually get somebody to pay
in this economy?
process for an actual collector makes all the
difference in the world.
we would get the labor force from for this
particular client, we looked at TWC.
So stratifying the certification
When we looked at where
We looked at
10
a couple of the other earn centers and found out
11
(00:24:42)that if you could provide a paralegal
12
certification training program, you could actually
13
get a whole lot more done and a lot more
14
accomplished because, essentially, our client's a
15
law firm.
16
that was part of it.
17
would we be able to create an opportunity for the
18
investment in the software product?
19
product per user is actually seven thousand
20
dollars.
21
(00:25:12)license agreement with Comtronics out in
It's Cambria Law Center.
So, that was,
The other part of it was,
Software
What we've done is create a four-user
26
(00:25:12)Washington State.
actually ready to go.
you know, based on what we know in terms of the
receivables numbers, whether or not it's
collectible, what the diminishing capacity for
collectibility is, what makes sense.
look at some of the numbers from the Parking
Authority, even though the collection rates are
high, what's uncollectible, or uncollected, is
10
still a great number.
11
(00:25:46)WOMAN:
12
And so, the client's
We're just looking to see,
And when you
Would you agree with that?
Mm-hm.
VINCE FENNERTY:
Mm-hm.
We already do everything
13
that you just said, though.
14
We retain the debt in-house, with ACS for four
15
years.
16
anything out to a collection firm that is less
17
than four years old.
18
TYRON ALI:
We're under contract.
That is part of it.
We can't send
We're not really interested
19
in anything that you have in-house.
Everything
20
that we look at as an OCA, really for us, makes
21
(00:26:14)better sense.
The older the debt, just
27
(00:26:14)like student loans, right?
the more mature the debt, the faster you can
actually get it collected.
us, you know, you're not putting a bill collector,
the standard bill collector, on the phone.
not what we're looking for.
firm that makes sense.
8
9
VINCE FENNERTY:
Sometimes
The issue being for
That's
It's gotta be a law
We're under contract with
Lineberger, who is a law firm in Center City, Philadelphia,
10
does BRT.
I think they also do the courts.
11
(00:26:47) We fired Penn -- was it Penn?
They do us.
12
UNKNOWN MALE:
No.
13
UNKNOWN MALE:
Oh,God I'm drawing a blank.
14
VINCE FENNERTY:
15
Penn Credit Collection.
16
UNKNOWN MALE:
17
20
21
It was Penn Collection,
No.
No.
They were out of
Harrisburg.
18
19
Who was it that I fired?
VINCE FENNERTY:
they were.
I can't remember who
It will come to me.

WOMAN:
No, I can't think of their name.
We had a credit
28
(00:27:16)collection agency that acted exactly the
way that you described, and about four or five
years ago, we got rid of them after a couple of
incidents.
were nasty, that when cases were withdrawn from
them, they wouldn't mark the files withdrawn.
There were multiple incidents and we got rid of
them.
was collecting their debts and moved the
They had collectors on the phone that
And then we went, we looked at the way the City
10
collections over to Lupman.
11
(00:27:45)Lupman?
12
TYRON ALI:
13
VINCE FENNERTY:
Are you familiar with
Of course.
We moved it over to
14
Lineberger and they're the only collection firm
15
that we use, after four years, for all of the debt
16
on parking tickets.
17
for us.
18
didn't have, I'd be very glad to listen.
19
They do a reasonably well job
But if you have something that they
TYRON ALI:
Part of what Lineberger uses
20
their automated service systems pretty much
21
(00:28:11)automates the collection debt process.
29
(00:28:15)The other, I guess it was three or four
nights ago, there was a story, and I'm just using
this as an example, where folks were taken out of
their bed who owed, I guess, in excess of ten
thousand dollars.
WOMAN:
UNKNOWN MALE:
TYRON ALI:
9
10
That was Traffic Court.

Traffic Court.
Traffic Court.
But all of
those things, they originate with a ticket.

WOMAN:
And moving violations.
11
And moving violations.
All
12
I'm suggesting is that while you may not have that
13
level of an individual owing monies on a
14
particular ticket, you still have incidences where
15
Lineberger may have the debt originally, and they
16
are not successful.
17
secondary and tertiary paper.
18
you're able to collect at which stage.
19
there have, Lineberger does not have a hundred
20
percent collections.
21
(00:29:08)four, five or six years old, it just
You've got the primary,

It's whether or not
So there,
I don't care whether they're
30
(00:29:10)doesn't happen, and so when you, when
you look at what's not collected, for whatever
reason, those are sort of the things that, you
know, nobody ever gets a start with prime paper
that's 30, 60, 90 days old.
happen, you know.
this is one other thing that I would like to
mention.
Harrisburg for New Jersey or Delaware or New York,
It just doesn't
When you look at the folks,
When you look at a OCA that's based in
10
the person that's collecting that money knows --
11
12
Okay?
13
maybe it wasn't Penn, 'cause whoever the
14
collection agency out of Harrisburg was, we made a
15
decision that however was going to do it was gonna
16
be local.
17
coming in here for a meeting.
18
also one of the reasons why we went to Lineberger
19
and we also looked at the rate of collections they
20
were doing on delinquent real estate taxes, which
21
(00:30:11)they had a very high collection rate.
We're not doing that.
The thing that we did when we -- I, I think
So, when we called them, they were

Okay.
And that was
31
(00:30:15)And we went over to Lineberger for that.
Okay?
gives 'em to them and they have them forever to
try to collect.
have money up to us, excuse me, upwards of a dozen
years or more.
you're going with this.
8
9
Now, they have them, after four years, ACS
Okay.
There's no write-offs.
We
And I don't understand where
TYRON ALI:
What was going to say before
you said that you wanted it local, that's actually
10
the point that I was trying to make is getting into a
11
(00:30:42)situation where you have people who
12
actually know what they're actually talking about
13
as opposed to just running it through like a
14
normal collection account.
15
collection agency just makes all the difference in
16
the world and the fact that our client is not a
17
collection agency makes life a little bit easier.
18
VINCE FENNERTY:
19
TYRON ALI:
20
VINCE FENNERTY:
21
(00:31:05)are there?
Having a local
Who is your client?
Cambria Law Center.

And how many lawyers
32
mean, it's been two years.
lawyers and two paralegals, but it's not exactly a
start-up because they have, they're holding
somewhere in the neighborhood about eight million
dollars right now.
7
8
9
They're not that old.
VINCE FENNERTY:
They've got two
Who, who are their
clients?
TYRON ALI:
I do not know all of their
10
client list.
11
(00:31:25)in here was specifically to lobby for
12
different contracts for them in Philadelphia.
13
My, the reason that they brought me
VINCE FENNERTY:
What are their, if I
14
might ask, who else are you lobbying?
15
Court has no collection agency.
16
TYRON ALI:
No.
Traffic
We're, we're, I lobby
17
in Washington, New York, Philadelphia, Florida,
18
and outside of the United States.
19
VINCE FENNERTY:
No.
I thought you
20
meant Cambridge Law Center brought you in to lobby
21
(00:31:48)for four different.
33
it's, it's not just, it's the Water Department.
It's parking tickets, it's PECO, it's PGW.
host of different things that we're looking at.
5
6
They, they did, but we have,
VINCE FENNERTY:
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:
10
Yes.
FENERTY:
None.
12
RON WATERS:
13
VINCE FENNERTY:
No.
And how's theirs?
RON WATERS:
16
VINCE FENNERTY:
19
They, it just sits out
there, basically
15
18
Yes.
Authority, Traffic Court doesn't have none?
TYRON ALI:
17
Yes.
Parking Authority, not Parking
11
14
Things they
recommended?
It's a
Really?
- - they suspend your
license, and that's it.

WOMAN:
But every now and then, they do
what they did the other night.
20
RON WATERS:
21
VINCE FENNERTY:
22
and knock on your door.
23
(00:32:23)WOMAN:
Okay.
And then they go out
Issue, like, a warrant
34
a body warrant?
WOMAN:
RON WATERS:
WOMAN:
6
7
What, they have a warrant, like
Yeah.
Yeah.
And every now and then, they
will do that amnesty program.

VINCE FENNERTY:
They need to be
modernized over there.
They have ACS who does the
collections and the biggest tool that they have
10
that we don't have is they can suspend your actual
11
(00:35:39)license.
12
suspend your --
We can suspend your, we can
13
RON WATERS:
14
VINCE FENNERTY:
15
License plate.
-- license plate, but
after six tickets.
16
RON WATERS:
Yeah.
17
VINCE FENNERTY:
Which someday, I'd like
18
to move it to three, because we boot at three, but
19
they can suspend your ticket if you owe 98 --
20
suspend your license if you owe one 98 dollar
21
(00:32:59)ticket.
35
that way?
What you mean?
VINCE FENNERTY:
RON WATERS:
VINCE FENNERTY:
RON WATERS:
VINCE FENNERTY:
They can do
What's that?
Move it to three?
Yeah.
Did you talk to (inaudible).

Not yet.
It's gotta go
on to Title 75.
I think Pittsburgh wants to move
it down, too, 'cause they're doing it.
But
10
traffic court doesn't even have what's called
11
(00:33:19)Cyber Collect, and I've sent them over
12
to talk to them about it.
13
ticket.
14
ticket with a check, its bogus.
15
you make it an NSF check.
16
boot notice, okay?
That's, you pay your
One of the biggest scams is you pay your
17
WOMAN:
18
VINCE FENNERTY:
It's an NSF check or
You figure you get a
Mm-hm.
You write a check,
19
process it, takes you off the boot notice.
Well,
20
we, oh, four or five years ago, one of your
21
(00:33:45) compadre up there from Reading, Mr.
36
(00:33:50)Calsroan (phonetic), came up with a company by
the name of Cyber Collect.
this and Im thinking "Listen, this sounds like great, but
how would it work?"
check bounces ACS immediately notifies Cyber Collect.
The minute that, there's a Federal law that
they're allowed to do this.
is put by you from your check routing service,
they put a click on, somehow they put a -- your bank on
And he called me and tell me
When you write us a check, if that
The minute that money
10
notice that somehow there's this NSF check, they suck that
11
(00:34:27)money right out, plus a five-dollar or
12
ten-dollar fee for them to do it.
13
zero bounced checks anymore.
14
couldn't -- traffic court's so far behind, I can't even get
15
them to do that.
16
17
RON WATERS:
We have almost
- [inaudible] -- I
You got any idea how much they
got uncollected?
18
VINCE FENNERTY:
19
RON WATERS:
I have no idea.
They could learn so much from
20
you all, man.
I mean, people, there's people that
21
(00:34:53)complain about getting the ticket until
37
(00:34:56)somebody double parks and blocks them
in.
somebody blocks their driveway and they can't
leave.
Authority Officer when they need one, but there's
other people who say it's efficient at the Parking
Authority and this goes back to when I was working
there.
from the Police Department and others about how to
People complain about getting a ticket until
But there's people who want a Parking
There's a lot that people can learn
10
be efficient officers and an efficient agency.
11
(00:35:23)want to say in traffic court, which used
12
to handle parking tickets had to learn y'all
13
branched off and it's much more efficient and
14
effective than they are.
15
UNKNOWN MALE:
And the people that are over
16
at Traffic Court now, there's very few of them.
17
There's probably less than a dozen that were there
18
when they handled parking tickets.
19
RON WATERS:
20
UNKNOWN MALE:
21
Mm-hm.
And parking tickets, when
(00:35:47)they handled them, were a joke.
If
38
(00:35:48)there were two hundred cases, if two
were found guilty in the court room -- I know.
used to go over during hearings.
two people guilty of a parking ticket, it was a
lot.
If they found
They didn't care.
RON WATERS:
VINCE FENNERTY:
discharge, discharge.
RON WATERS:
It's worse than that.

And it was discharge,
It seemed like anybody with a
10
parking ticket could go home.
11
12
WOMAN:
Yeah.
13
RON WATERS:
14
VINCE FENNERTY:
Isnt that correct?
They discharged everyone.

Right.
Yeah.
It was low on their --
It was very low, very
15
low.
They wouldn't collect anything.
And back to
16
your client, you've done your job.
17
in, but I'd like to hear something from the people
18
that actually run it before I would even think
19
about doing anything.
20
compared to what we have because, I'm, I'm, I'm,
21
(00:36:33)just not to hurt anybody's feelings but
You've come
Of exactly what they do,
39
(00:36:38)I don't believe in fixing something
that's not broken.
TYRON ALI:
I understand.
VINCE FENNERTY:
And I think our
collection at this point is not broken, 'cause
we've hired a law firm.
experience that you have described as collectors
and all that.
doing a good job, but worse than that, okay, they
10
didn't listen to the direction that we gave them,
11
(00:37:01)and just went off on their own
12
unprofessional, nasty.
13
right way to say.
14
I went through that
They embarrassed us.
And that, I guess, is the
UNKNOWN MALE:
They created a newspaper
15
article for one of their writers --
16
VINCE FENNERTY:
17
UNKNOWN MALE:
18
19
They weren't
There's one article.

-- the wife got a ticket and
it was supposed to be -VINCE FENNERTY:
withdrawn and we sent the
20
withdrawal notice and they just said, "We didn't pay
21
attention to it.
22
It's collectible."
Once you
(00:37:27)give it out, it's collectible.
40
criteria that they were gonna use that they were
only allowed to collect tickets within this range
and they just completely disregarded it.
VINCE FENNERTY:
Well, we gave them
And of course, one of the ones
they went after was a columnist for the Daily News.
wrote a story about it, and he wrote a small story about
it.
and I talked to him.
He was gonna do a whole Sunday article on it

I said, "Why are you just
10
telling me about that now?"
And I don't even
11
(00:37:51)remember who it was but he's not there
12
anymore at the Inquirer.
13
give me a week to look at this?"
14
should I?"
15
before.
So why don't you give me a week and make
16
a deal?
You can blast me on that story that I
17
know you have already written."
I said, "Why don't you

He said, "Why
I said, "Because I never lied to you
18
UNKNOWN MALE:
19
VINCE FENNERTY:
20
rewrite."
21
(00:38:12)this."
Mm-hm.
"You're gonna have to
I said, "But I need a week to look at

I said, "Your story could be
And he
41
(00:38:15)better."
And he, he said, I said, "You
have to take my word for it."
you within a week."
He said, "I was just gonna call you."
I'd call you Thursday."
for Sunday?"
you better start rewriting because I fired them."
He said, "What?"
contract.
I said, "I'll call
I called him a week later.

"I said I told you
I said, "When's your deadline
He said, "Tomorrow."
I said, "Well,
I said, "They violated the
I fired them."
I said, "I fired them
10
yesterday."
I said, "The Freedom of Information
11
(00:38:41)requests weren't what it was then."
12
said, "I'll fax you the letter."
13
rewrite the whole thing and it turned our, instead
14
of being a bad article against the Parking
15
Authority, it was a good one.
16
collection agency for a year with stuff laid out
17
there until we found what we wanted to do with it,
18
'cause as soon as they got fired, other collection
19
agencies were in here and I was totally against,
20
okay, somebody in Harrisburg or Pittsburgh, or you
21
(00:39:08)know, I won't even talk Jersey or
And he had to
We were without a
And
42
(00:39:11)Delaware.
Okay?
They're not here.
They're not paying City wage tax.
can't see giving that kind of business to somebody
that's not in the State.
across Lineberger by accident.
good, they did a good presentation for us and we
actually shopped how they handled people, okay,
without them knowing it and they were very, very
professional.
Theyre not, I just
And finally, we came

And they did a
They have an office that you go
10
into, beyond professional, and they've been giving
11
(00:39:36)us pretty good results and they've taken
12
people to court and got judgments against them.
13
TYRON ALI:
Yeah?
14
VINCE FENNERTY:
We're well above that
15
stage.
In fact, I think the thing's in the other
16
office.
17
first batch of 25 filings.
18
to publish who owes us parking ticket money
19
because parking ticket revenue and the IDs for parking
20
tickets and the camera tickets, they come from
21
(00:40:08)PennDOT or the State's DMVs.
Action News even did a big story on the

See, we're not allowed
We're not
43
(00:40:10)allowed to release that information to
the press to say, or through Freedom of
Information, or anything, how many who are your top
25 scofflaws, because that information is derived
from the files of the DOTs.
disseminated to anyone other than the agency using
it.
the driver, so we don't disseminate that one.
Once we're able to file in court, court records
It can't be
Also, okay, the individual may claim he's not
10
are public records.
11
(00:40:43)copy of that, and that's how we've
12
gotten some good press on suing people.
13
upwards of about a hundred filings in court now,
14
right?
15
WOMAN:
Okay.
Mm-hm.
They can then get a
But we're
Yeah, and I go to court
16
probably once a week with a couple of cases a
17
week.
18
TYRON ALI:
Part of the issue, and I'm
19
not specifically addressing Lineberger or any
20
other outside OCL law firm that collects money,
21
(00:41:05)part of the issue becomes the
44
(00:41:08)origination point for information.
And
then, how do you port that information so that it
actually restricts or allows access for that
collection activity to begin?
the highlights of this Comtronic system is that
when you port the information, the information
automatically restricts the data base.
words, you cannot access the file, whether you are
the client or whether or not you are the OCA
One of the, one of
In other
10
that's working the file.
You cannot access it
11
(00:41:39)without the pass code which originates
12
with the client.
13
know, Lineberger is very good at what they do.
14
They're a large outfit.
15
of different types of resources but one of the
16
things that they lack is telephony sophistication.
17
They just don't have it.
18
four hundred calls in an hour.
19
have it.
20
they do business, and quite honestly, it's a
21
(00:42:10)little bit different of a strategy for
So, it's a very unique, you
They've got lots and lots
They cannot pump out
They don't have it.
They just don't

That's not the way
45
(00:42:14)them.
They don't have that.
With
Cambria, it's a little bit of a different
situation.
telephony issues sorted out.
those things, when you talk about revenue and
paying taxes and making sure that you're employing
Philadelphians, our group is originally out of New
York.
years.
You've got the software, we've got the

And beyond all of
I've been in Philadelphia for 17 or 18

I used to be Executive Vice President for
10
St. Hill.
11
(00:42:40)mean, I've been lobbying for almost ten
12
years, but it's not something new.
13
the process.
14
you know, folks that we can go to and say, "Hey,
15
look, this might actually be a little bit of a
16
better fit than what you're using now."
17
trying to reinvent the wheel.
18
to do is improve on a process that's already in
19
place.
20
21
This is not something that's new.
We understand
We looked at a host of different,
VINCE FENNERTY:
We're not
What we're trying
Well, like I said,
(00:43:05)you're a lobbyist.
46
Yes.
VINCE FENNERTY:
Okay.
I don't have, if
I'm gonna consider anything, I want to talk to the
people that run it.
TYRON ALI:
Understood.
VINCE FENNERTY:
Because your system
would, no matter how sophisticated, it would not
fit us.
still trying to build the car on the street and
Because while you're collecting, I'm
10
I'm still collecting it, too.
Okay?
So, if they
11
(00:43:27)pay us, okay, through a notice, it comes
12
right off.
13
there would be quite a substantial, if we went
14
with them, quite a substantial investment would
15
have to be made, okay, which your client would
16
have to pay for, for an on-line interaction with
17
ACS, our computer vendor.
18
payment at 11:01, at 11:02 it's marked paid on our
19
file and so, we're not up.
20
(inaudible) looking for that.
21
(00:43:58)exclusive.
If they were to make a payment to you,
Okay?
So, if you take a
We don't have
There is no
You could send twenty
47
(00:43:59)letters, make two hundred phone calls.
My booting crew boots them.
on that.
You get no commission
TYRON ALI:
Well, let me just address
that specific issue.
information, let's assume that something comes
from Headquarters that says, "You know what, at
12:04, this ticket's been paid and it needs to be
not just withdrawn, but all collection activity
Reporting of the
10
needs to cease and desist."
11
(00:44:24)It's web-based, so it's in real time.
12
It's not, it's not a situation where you've got
13
some kind of delay for information.
14
work that way.
15
16
WOMAN:
interact with your -TYRON ALI:
18
VINCE FENNERTY:
20
21
It doesn't
So our ACS would have to
17
19
That's in real time.
Yes, yes, yes.

I'd be very willing to
talk to somebody from the company.

TYRON ALI:
Okay.
It's a little bit of
(00:44:46)a different strategy because in today's
48
(00:44:48)world, you need to keep pace.
WOMAN:
Yeah.
TYRON ALI:
And a lot of outside
collection agencies just do not have the resources
or the manpower to be able to actually make that
kind of investment.
VINCE FENNERTY:
We are, we always were
and we definitely are, we're ahead of every agency
in Philadelphia on how to collect money.
Right.
10
We know how to collect money.
11
(00:45:11)been on our tail about how do we do this
12
and how do we do that because they have literally
13
hundreds of millions of dollars in uncollected bail.
14
15
TYRON ALI:
Clerk of quarter
sessions.
16
RON WATERS:
17
TYRON ALI:
18
Yeah.
Vivian Miller and Company, I
mean, that's, that's a fiasco of itself.
19
VINCE FENNERTY:
20
TYRON ALI:
21
The courts have
(00:45:32)daughter.
Which is --
I figured out it's her
49
We're actually looking
right now with the courts to see if there's a way
to interact, and then we would have to go back to
Harrisburg again or probably have to go back to
Harrisburg to tweak the statute because the courts
are interested and if they can isolate, even in
the future when somebody puts bail up, okay, get
the make and model of their cars, copy of their
IDs if they run on the bail.
How they transfer
10
that over to the Parking Authority to add it to
11
(00:46:07)the boot file.
12
13
RON WATERS:
Wow.
Thats something.
You guys
are gonna be all over the place, man.
14
VINCE FENNERTY:
And it would be no
15
expenditure on our part.
Okay.
If the Court did
16
it, they would have, you know, we would come up,
17
we would get the boot fee.
18
agency for them.
19
we boot it, we got the car, the car's held up for
20
bail, too.
21
(00:46:24)well as --
We're not a collection
They can send all their notices,
It would require a State statute as
50
though? - [inaudible] --
3
4
WOMAN:
RON WATERS:
We
You would get the boot fee, but
the, but the Courts would get the --
7
8
You know, the boot fee?
would get the boot fee.
5
6
Who would get the money,
WOMAN:
The bail.
So they would come
over with release papers.
RON WATERS:
10
Yeah.
VINCE FENNERTY:
If it wasn't, if it was
11
(00:46:40)not, if it was, if it was booted, okay,
12
only for court ticket, for court fees.
13
motor's got nailed for court fees and there were no parking
14
tickets, okay, Court would get it all.
15
Okay.
16
priority, okay, for parking tickets, parking
17
tickets would be paid first.
18
and storage always gets paid.
19
(00:47:04) And then the court fees would get
Let's say, my
If it was booted as a
Naturally, towing
51
(00:47:05)paid next.
2
3
RON WATERS:
parents?
4
5
VINCE FENNERTY:
RON WATERS:
VINCE FENNDERTY:
Not recent, but towards the
end of last session, Family Court was talking to
10
Taylor --
11
12
Would they be interested in
going after them?
8
9
Deadbeat parents, actually
Family Court is also --
6
7
What about for deadbeat
Okay.
VINCE FENNERTY:
-- about possibly doing
13
something very similar, okay, for booting vehicles
14
for deadbeat parents because there already is a
15
statute under Title 75 to suspend one's license
16
for deadbeat parents.
17
a way to do a seizure for deadbeat parents' cars.
18
So, before the end of this session, you'll
19
probably get both of those bills to them.
20
21
RON WATERS:
So, they, were looking at
Okay.
Okay.
Did you guys ever
(00:47:51)have a bill that you wanted to have to -
52
[inaudible] -- (00:47:53) I want you to know, you've got
some friends up there.
out, but you got other friends up there, too.
4
5
Perzel, well, Perzel is going
VINCE FENNERTY:
Give me a good one, give me
one.
RON WATERS:
Remember when he was here,
Champion, was for, what was that bill then?
um, he was doing some scofflaw bills.
WOMAN:
10
11
Yeah, about 25 people.
VINCE FENNERTY:
12
Oh,
That may, that may --
Oh, yeah.
VINCE FENNERTY:
There is one or two of them,
13
in fact, they're both sitting right there right
14
now.
15
RON WATERS:
Yeah.
16
VINCE FENNERTY:
Which we're in the
17
process of seeing who wants to be the sponsors on
18
'em.
19
Okay.
So, you may just have volunteered.
RON WATERS:
Oh, man.
20
be careful what you ask for.
21
I gotta do it.
You gotta
Careful what you ask for.
They're both sitting,
53
1
2
(00:48:30)they're sitting under my phone, Ron.

RON WATERS:
Yeah.
No problem.
No problem.
When I talk to people, I always mention part of
my, when I talk about my history, is that my
Parking Authority.
when I speak.
I do that almost all the time
VINCE FENNERTY:
WOMAN:
RON WATERS:
Those handicapped --
And you get votes that way?

No, I'm not that to the public.
10
What I mean (laughing) I'm in Harrisburg a lot of
11
(00:48:48)the time.
12
VINCE FENNERTY:
Those handicapped medallions
13
for some cabs.
There is also right now Parking
14
Authority gets one dollar --
15
RON WATERS:
16
VINCE FENNERTY:
17
Yeah.
-- on each
parking ticket to run taxi.
18
RON WATERS:
Right.
19
VINCE FENNERTY:
You know these taxi
20
drivers have lived in your office for the last couple
21
(00:49:05)of years say our fees are too high.
54
Mm-hm.
VINCE FENNERTY:
Yeah.
We get no source
of income other than the fees that we charge, the
fines that we collect, and the one dollar off of a
parking ticket to run taxi and limo.
to raise the fees on the taxi drivers and limo
drivers.
get another buck or two off of the parking
tickets.
10
So, we have
The only way we can reduce it is if we
RON WATERS:
Okay.
11
So, we're looking at
12
definitely introducing something like that and
13
whoever the sponsors and cosponsors along with
14
that will be the heroes of the taxi industry
15
because the sole purpose is not doing, is only two
16
things, reducing the fees that the drivers and
17
owners pay, okay, and giving the Parking Authority a
18
little more money, so I can put a few more inspectors on
19
the street at night when all the hacks are coming
20
out and the out of the suburban cabs are coming in and the
21
(00:50:00)unlicensed cabs are coming in and
55
(00:50:03)grabbing up the medallion cab work.
Okay.
yellow stations and all that.
four more enforcement guys out there, okay, I'll
be able to chase them back, chase them away like
we did in the day.
legislation.
The cheaper rate, the hacks are at the

If I can get two to
So we have two pieces of
RON WATERS:
WOMAN:
Okay.
Okay.
When are you introducing that,
10
cause I have to order paper parking tickets.
11
It will be introduced,
12
but it's a Title 75 bill.
If we get it, if a
13
Title 75 bill passes, it will either be, like,
14
June 29th or November 29th.
15
RON WATERS:
16
VINCE FENNERTY:
17
WOMAN:
18
19
20
Am I right?
Yeah.
Title 75 --
Yeah, 'cause if I order six
months' worth of parking tickets, then I -VINCE FENNERTY:

It'll be awhile.
I'll tie that into my
56
(00:50:48)dispatch-only taxicab bill.
2
3
VINCE FENNERTY:
Well, dispatch, that's a Title
53.
RON WATERS:
Yeah, I know.
Well, anyway,
you know, if these inspectors are going to do some
of these stop-and-goes, too, man, let's see if we
can find the underage who drink, underage who --
VINCE FENNERTY:
RON WATERS:
10
-- [inaudible] --
11
12
right now?
13
We can't do that.
I know that.
UNKNOWN MALE:
Thats a joke man.
What's, what's our collection
Our collection rate's
14
like 76 percent, closure rate's about 82
15
percent.
16
VINCE FENNERTY:
About three years ago,
17
the Mayor said, well, me and him and Asher at a
18
meeting with Michael when he first became, right
19
before he became Mayor.
20
think our closure rate was what, 77 percent?
21
And at that point, I
Yeah.
Something around there.
57
So, he said 77 percent
collection rate, and he said, "Hmm, God, even
PGW's better than that."
he said, "Could you tell me why that is?"
I said,
"Do you want me to give the real answer?"
"Yeah.
I want the real answer."
gonna feel stupid when I tell you."
"No.
have to go out and PGW doesn't have to go out and
And I looked at him and
I said, "Because you're
Tell me the real answer."
10
catch that house to boot it.
11
(00:52:05)off.
12
put the boot on."
13
question."
14
15
And he said,
I said, "I don't
They'd turn the gas
I gotta go out and find the car to

"Okay.
That's a stupid
That's exactly right.

RON WATERS:
(Inaudible) a billion dollars'
worth of debt.
16
VINCE FENNERTY:
17
RON WATERS:
18
VINCE FENNERTY:
Mm-hm.
Right?
For PEW.
With the Parking
19
Authority, we'd break right in the door to go
20
repossess their furnace.
21
(00:52:24)(Everybody laughing.)
58
Nobody wants to touch the
daggone thing.
don't want to inherit that billion dollar debt
with it.
Nobody will buy it because nobody
UNKNOWN MALE:
Bet not to assume.
VINCE FENNERTY:
We got tagged in the
paper today because, you have as much experience
as anybody else, somebody's down the impoundment
lot at midnight on a Friday night.
They got
10
towed.
They owed 600 dollar's worth of tickets.
11
(00:52:48)By the time were done looking at it, they
12
owed 11 hundred.
13
make your arrangements Monday if you don't have
14
it.
15
They said a supervisor was rude, da, da, da, da, da.
16
Excuse me.
Well, you gotta go over BAA and
A supervisor, I don't know who was on, talked to them.
17
RON WATERS:
18
VINCE FENNERTY:
19
20
21
Impoundment lot supervisor?

Impoundment lot
supervisor, which I, which -RON WATERS:
Caputo or Ricky, Ricky, what
(00:53:02)was that, Ricky Bernhart?
59
(00:53:02)WOMAN:
wouldn't be there.
3
4
They won't be there at
midnight.
WOMAN:
(Inaudible.)
Richie's the only
manager.
7
8
But at midnight he
VINCE FENNERTY:
5
6
Yeah.
VINCE FENNERTY:
Okay.
Caputo's in
booting with Terry.
RON WATERS:
10
booting before?
11
(00:53:02)WOMAN:
Caputo went back?
Wasn't he in
No.
12
RON WATERS:
Well, he went from --
13
VINCE FENNERTY:
He went from
14
Manager at the impoundment lot to Deputy Manager
15
of booting.
16
RON WATERS:
Okay.
17
VINCE FENNERTY:
And told to get in the DROP
18
program over a bad incident.
And he, but, and then, they
19
said about the supervisor, it's in there, Christine Flowers
20
wrote it.
21
(00:53:50)down, "Don't let that man drive tonight.
The Supervisor even said to the people who came

He's
60
(00:53:50) been drinking."
Now, you know what the drunk patrol is that we
deal with out there, so, I had some drunk, okay,
in with somebody else to get some reporter's ear.
soon as I got down to the thing, they said, "Don't
let the man drive."
some drunk acting up down there.
I know what I had.
RON WATERS:
VINCE FENNERTY:
10
come to see us?
11
12
WOMAN:
13
TYRON ALI:
Which he wasn't, they said.
Mm-hm.
As
I had
It wasn't Pat --
So, who can you have to
It was Pat (inaudible.)
She's been here a few times.

Well, we'll, we'll discuss
14
it with our folks and figure out what the next
15
steps are.
16
mention of before, before we kind of close out.
17
Part of the responsibility, at least for us on our
18
team, is to look at how we can solicit clients
19
from the Philadelphia neighborhoods to bring money
20
back into Philadelphia.
21
(00:54:44)step for us.
In terms, there is one thing I'd like to make
Now, this is an important

It's an important step for
61
(00:54:47)our client.
why we have really, really concentrated on
lobbying specific members of both the House and
the Senate.
what those folks in those communities are looking
for and how we can help them.
agenda for us is job and revenue increase and they
go hand in hand.
That makes us understand even more
VINCE FENNERTY:
10
with that, but --
11
12
13
That's one of the reasons
I'm in full agreement
Yeah.
VINCE FENNERTY:
job.
And the number one
-- you've done your
You've got the --
14
TYRON ALI:
Oh, sure.
15
VINCE FENNERTY:
16
the runs and what --
17
TYRON ALI:
18
VINCE FENNERTY:
19
TYRON ALI:
But now, I need to see
Point taken.
And what everything is.
Point taken.
20
your time.
21
I appreciate
There have been many,
62
(00:55:28)and Ron can tell you, there's many
people who have walked in here with good ideas.
TYRON ALI:
Mm-hm.
VINCE FENNERTY:
Okay.
Some have been
successful in selling them to us and some haven't.
know, if, if you have something better, we're always going
to look at it.
something that's not broken.
But if it's equal to, I'm not fixing
TYRON ALI:
I, I couldn't agree with you
10
more.
Again, these are web-based applications.
11
(00:55:51)They focus and furnish information in
12
realtime.
13
experience, that's the reason they're recruiting
14
specifically for these projects.
15
collection agency business better than most guys
16
17
18
Beyond those things, based on my own
VINCE FENNERTY:
I understand the
If you worked for Tommy
St. Hill.
TYRON ALI:
I was Executive Vice
19
President of the entire general collection deal.
20
It was over, I was managing over a billion-two for
21
(00:56:11)Verizon.
My first year with them, I
But you
63
(00:59:11)made them fifteen million dollars.
mean, I did very well at St. Hill and I did very
well for them.
Is Serena Blanco still here?
VINCE FENNERTY:
TYRON ALI:
Yeah, she is.
Oh, okay.
But, but by that
same token, things have changed.
agency business has evolved.
longer, let's beat them over the head.
VINCE FENNERTY:
10
TYRON ALI:
The collection
And so, it's no
Right.
You know, we're looking for
11
(00:56:31)different strategies, different economic
12
situations, and perhaps, results, as well.
13
you look at 77 percent collections, that's unheard
14
of.
15
over, that's also sort of unheard of.
16
of money.
Right?
When
But when you look at what's left
17
VINCE FENNERTY:
18
TYRON ALI:
It's a lot
It's a lot of money.
It's a lot of money and you
19
need to get it.
That's the point.
20
get it.
21
You need to
In the parking ticket
64
(00:56:55)business we've never been able to really
figure out how much of it is real money, because
as this man can tell you, probably half of that,
that's left was written on bogus tags, dead tags,
okay, a stolen tag that somebody stole from
somebody else, okay, the people, you know.
kind of scenarios, clone tags, just general
deadbeats that just don't pay anything and don't
own anything.
10
RON WATERS:
Duplicate tags, you said?
11
12
clone tags, yeah.
13
14
WOMAN:
All
There's clones, there's
Delaware actually reissues tags.
We have a problem with them.
15
VINCE FENNERTY:
It's just like we, we,
16
we (inaudible) far and few between.
17
stolen vehicles that we impound, okay, with the
18
VIN plates replaced.
19
goes through every car before we sell it so that
20
don't happen.
21
(00:57:49) Everything's cloned on them now.
And a lot of
And we have an expert that
They also now clone cars.

You
65
(00:57:50)could get cars either stolen from
dealerships, okay, or are cloned.
the car that actually was stolen, okay, they clone
every identification off it and put it on another
car, okay.
and you not know it.
it, okay, and they'd steal an exact car from you,
of your make.
have your car.
Okay.
And
So, your car could be stolen, okay,

You could still be driving
You're driving a Buick, you still

Everything is cloned on it.
10
Somehow they got all your information, they steal
11
(00:58:27)a car, they duplicate it, okay, it's in
12
Ron Waters' name, running around with a cloned tag,
13
a cloned VIN on it.
14
and we can't explain why.
15
it, okay, and then you get an impoundment notice.
16
Or some very good State police officer, the locals can't
17
detect it, detects it's a cloned vehicle.
18
And then, the whole scheme goes back.
19
this is all scientific.
20
the collections out there are people who just
21
(00:58:59)don't care.
And you're getting tickets

Until somebody impounds
Okay.
I mean,
There's a lot, a lot of
Okay.
A lot of people, a
66
(00:59:01)lot of it is debt that just is never
gonna be collected.
TYRON ALI:
We do not approach
it that way.
We believe that all money can be
collected, it's just the strategy that's in place.
WOMAN:
I see.
TYRON ALI:
Theres gonna be some debt
that's too old, but that's about it.
your time.
10
Thank you.
11
MAN:
12
TYRON ALI:
13
VINCE FENNERTY:
14
Nice meeting you too.
Thanks.
-- take him over to see
Traffic Court somehow.

RON WATERS:
16
VINCE FENNERTY:
Yeah.
Yeah.
Because they have no
collections.
18
RON WATERS:
19
WOMAN:
20
Ron, you ought to take --
Very nice meeting you.
15
17
I appreciate
Yeah.
You ever thought about them?
It's nice meeting you.
It's very nice meeting
67
(00:59:39)you.
VINCE FENNERTY:
RON WATERS:
VINCE FENNERTY:
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
Call, Thomasina.
Yeah, oh, I know her very well.

Call Thomasina.
You know whats amazing -The Clerk of Quarter
Sessions --
UNKNOWN MALE:
TYRON ALI:
What's that?
The Clerk of Quarter
Sessions, I couldn't believe how much money they
have out there.
It's like ridiculous.
It's
10
hundreds of millions of dollars that nobody is
11
(00:59:48)doing anything.
12
VINCE FENNERTY:
13
rate is astonishing good.
14
TYRON ALI:
15
VINCE FENNERTY:
Okay.
Well, our collection
I know.
I know.
And it's because we
16
pursue it.
We've closed every loophole
17
that we can if we're not collecting and the thing
18
with the collection agencies, whoever, well, we
19
don't use collection agencies, the phone calling,
20
we do it a very minimum, because you have to make
21
(01:00:12)sure, there could be 20 Vince Fennerty's
68
(01:00:12)in the phone book.
wrong one, pow.
newspapers.
If you call the
I got a problem with the
So you know --
TYRON ALI:
You gotta source the
information correctly at the point of origin, and
then you've gotta be able to process it.
like processing a million checks the same way each
time.
VINCE FENNERTY:
It's
You owe a gas bill, the
10
newspapers always want to be on the collector's
11
(01:00:39)side.
Again, deadbeats.
12
TYRON ALI:
13
VINCE FENNERTY:
14
15
Mm-hm.
Right.
Make a mistake with a
parking ticket, we like to be beat up.

TYRON ALI:
Consumer friendliness.
16
Don't collect the money.
17
go to the school and where do they get that money?
18
From you guys.
19
Meanwhile, the kids must
VINCE FENNERTY:
But the only, the only
20
people that are hated worse than us are the
21
(01:00:57)Internal Revenue.
22
TYRON ALI:
I know.
I know.
69
here, they started calling PEO, Public Enemy
Number One.
anything, to her credit, Radda Cutler came in here
with a kinder and gentler approach.
VINCE FENNERTY:
UNKNOWN MALE:
article.
collection agency.
11
TYRON ALI:
(01:01:21)and Company?
13
TYRON ALI:
16
Tom Furz wrote the
And it's not Don Donnegar
VINCE FENNERTY:
15
I can't remember that name.
I can't think of the name of the
12
14
But, but when I was
We were really, but it wasn't
10
Yeah.
No.
It was actually Don Donnegar
and Rich Temple.

TYRON ALI:
It's not Steve Cusick or his
dad, Arthur, right?
17
VINCE FENNERTY:
18
TYRON ALI:
No.
Those are the larger of the
19
collection agencies outside.
20
Cusick sounds familiar.
70
Yeah.
RON WATERS:
Steve and Arthur.
Joe Moore is calling me.
calls me almost every day.
one time before.
He
The guy was in here
UNKNOWN MALE:
For what?
UNKNOWN MALE:
I'm going to have to go.
It's
nice meeting you.
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
Nice meeting you.

It's very nice meeting you.
10
Take good care.
11
12
had a lot of stuff on his record.
13
was mostly arrests.
14
stuff expunged.
15
he gets that stuff cleared up, come back again.
16
He came back again.
But when he was here before, he

He says that it
He said he has since then got that
And Bill Raymond once told me, if
I told him --
17
UNKNOWN MALE:
18
RON WATERS:
Who's that?
Joseph Moore is his name.
19
was the one, I keep looking at my phone, I'm like,
20
what?
21
(01:02:10)him to other places to look for a job.
This guy, he called me like every day.
He
I sent
He
71
(01:02:13)was so focused on getting hired here I
think his heart was set on seeing if he could get
in here somewhere.
phoned in, they be hiring at towing something --
But somebody told me if he
UNKNOWN MALE:
VINCE FENNERTY:
RON WATERS:
Towing.
That's promotional [inaudible]-
Thats what I remember it was but
somebody, whoever he talks to was telling him that they are
VINCE FENNERTY:
That's next week.
I'm doing, I'm doing
10
AP.
They're all packed.
11
(01:02:31)it's somebody with, if it's somebody
12
with, if he had open jobs and he got found not
13
guilty.
14
RON WATERS:
15
VINCE FENNERTY:
16
RON WATERS:
17
If
Right.
That's not a problem.
Well, it was an open arrest, he
said.
18
TYRON ALI:
19
RON WATERS:
Right.
And, and they never pursued it.
20
It was just arrest.
21
Well, that's an open job.
72
(01:02:49)You gotta go get closure on the job.
RON WATERS:
VINCE FENNERTY:
If he's found not
guilty, it's not a problem.
5
6
Yeah.
RON WATERS:
He 'sposed to got it all
expunged now.
VINCE FENNERTY:
Well, you don't even
have to get, well, if he got it, if he got, first,
if he got, he would have been turned down.
10
not for a not guilty being on his record.
11
12
Not,
Right.
VINCE FENNERTY:
13
don't care about that.
14
'em, "Go get it expunged.
15
record."
Not being expunged.
I tell 'em when I hire
16
RON WATERS:
17
VINCE FENNERTY:
Get if off your
Okay.
Because it will be on
18
there in the future.
You know what I'm saying?
19
If you go somewhere else, somebody is going to hold
20
it against you.
21
Yeah.
73
turn 'em down for open jobs, that means he had
open court cases he never went back and finished.
4
5
6
RON WATERS:
I don't, okay, but if I
Well, I hope he got it
straightened out.
VINCE FENNERTY:
And if he, like, I get
guys calling me all the time.
my lawyer and he told me it shouldn't be on there.
I should have had a pardon."
10
RON WATERS:
"Yeah.
I talked to
Mm-hm.
11
12
yo, "You did this burglary.
13
drugs in 1994, and you did six months or eight
14
months but you don't get that expunged."
15
RON WATERS:
16
VINCE FENNERTY:
17
RON WATERS:
18
VINCE FENNERTY:
Okay.
And I go back,
You sold these
Yeah.
No.
It don't get expunged.

Yeah, thats a pardon.
And unfortunately, I
19
even find, and if they're clean for a couple of
20
years, I, I find cases where these kids, okay, get
21
(01:03:51)caught not selling drugs, okay, with
74
(01:03:57)possession.
RON WATERS:
VINCE FENNERTY:
stupid.
Yeah.
Okay.
They're too
They go listen to these Public Defenders.
RON WATERS:
Yeah.
VINCE FENNERTY:
All right.
Look,
you're not gonna go to jail just, you know, take
the plea.
9
10
11
RON WATERS:
Take the plea.
VINCE FENNERTY:
And then they got a
(01:04:07)fucking conviction.
12
RON WATERS:
They got a conviction --
13
VINCE FENNERTY:
They got a conviction
14
and a probation period which they've completed and
15
I won't turn somebody down for that, but if you
16
come in here and you just got your probation done
17
last week --
18
RON WATERS:
19
VINCE FENNERTY:
20
Yeah.
(01:04:20)in another year.
-- come back and see me

I want to make sure
75
(01:04:22)will stay clean.
2
3
RON WATERS:
just passed yesterday at --
4
5
But what about this bill they
VINCE FENNERTY:
that bill.
RON WATERS:
VINCE FENNERTY:
I got no problem with
-- at City Hall?
I got no problem with
that bill.
RON WATERS:
Okay.
Take, take this, check
10
the box off.
Now, the only problem I have with
11
(01:04:31)this, Vince, is that in a time of open
12
records, I mean, suppose a person comes in here
13
who's a repeat offender, okay, and they're still
14
on parole.
15
VINCE FENNERTY:
16
RON WATERS:
I'm not gonna hire 'em.
Yeah, but that just saying you
17
still gonna do the criminal background check, even if the
18
damn thing says you don't check the box or not, you
19
still gonna - [inaudible] --
20
21
VINCE FENNERTY:
Hey, look, I have people
(01:04:49)come in all the time.
They check the
76
(01:04:52)box, "no."
a record there.
Okay, it comes back, there's
I'm not talking to them no more.
RON WATERS:
Right.
VINCE FENNERTY:
They blew it.
I get them in an oral
interview, okay?
gonna say, "We will check your record.
this."
their record.
9
10
and all that?

VINCE FENNERTY:
the pee test.
Okay.
You gotta take
You gotta do it all.
RON WATERS:
14
VINCE FENNERTY:
15
UNKNOWN MALE:
16
TYRON ALI:
Yeah.
I don't know --
National Recovery.
National Recovery Bureau,
NRB?
18
VINCE FENNERTY:
19
TYRON ALI:
20
VINCE FENNERTY:
21
We require
They gotta take the pee test
13
17
I'm
They gotta sign the form for us to check
RON WATERS:
11
12
I'm gonna talk to 'em.
Yeah.
Okay.
Absolutely.
Not RCB, right?
Not Munnos
77
(01:05:19)and Company?
2
3
VINCE FENNERTY:
TYRON ALI:
Yeah.
That's, that's,
that's the name that rings a bell.
6
7
That's another
department.
4
5
Okay.
VINCE FENNERTY:
Okay.
And they check "yes."
I've done, I've completed every interview.
RON WATERS:
Mm-hm.
VINCE FENNERTY:
Okay.
And somebody, it
10
was yesterday, somebody from, a girl that I
11
(01:05:32)interviewed last time that she just came
12
in yesterday for the final interview, from --
13
Rochelle Hudson.
She was from Kirk Thomas.
14
RON WATERS:
15
VINCE FENNERTY:
16
Okay.
TYRON ALI:
18
VINCE FENNERTY:
20
21
And she checked
"yes" on the box.
17
19
Okay.
Youre a good friend?

Yeah.
breaks my balls all the time.

RON WATERS:
Yeah.
Mine, too.
Right.
He
78
Yeah.
VINCE FENNERTY:
RON WATERS:
VINCE FENNERTY:
He's a piece of work.
He's a piece of work, man.

He fucking just broke
my balls up in Urban Affairs Committee.
got in a fucking screaming match, okay, with Chris
Ross who I think is one of the nicest guys on the
fucking Hill.
9
10
11
RON WATERS:
Chris is.
VINCE FENNERTY:
RON WATERS:
13
VINCE FENNERTY:
14
RON WATERS:
16
17
18
19
20
21
I like him.
He had a screaming
(01:06:07)match with Chris Ross --
12
15
He got, he
No, no, no.

-- over taxi drivers.
Nah.
What he, what he doing
with taxi drivers?

VINCE FENNERTY:
With Germantown Cab.
He ain't even in Germantown.

RON WATERS:
Oh, come on, now.
They came to
me about that bullshit.

VINCE FENNERTY:
Guess who - you want to hear two
(01:06:21) and two equal four?
Guess who they hired as
79
(01:06:21)their lobbyist?
RON WATERS:
VINCE FENNERTY:
RON WATERS:
VINCE FENNERTY:
MAN:
RON WATERS:
No.
Who?
As their consultant?
Who?
Mike Horsey.
That is absurd.
Oh, you know what though?
wants to meet with me Monday.
yeah.
10
11
TYRON ALI:
Wait a minute,
Actually, he was
(01:06:30)(inaudible).
12
13
He
RON WATERS:
Hey Joe, I am currently At the
Parking Authority.
14
TYRON ALI:
(Inaudible)
I saw John at
15
Sam Staten's affair and I said, "John, what's
16
up?"
17
Germantown piece?"
18
hundred thousand dollars that Everman's charging.
19
making 300, 340 thousand.
20
down 65 thousand.
21
(01:07:09)Grayson and Salamon.
I said, "What's going on with this

He says, like, it's three
He's got 'em putting
I talked to Zack
Zack said to me,
They're
80
(01:07:09)he's, like, "Look, Ty, you guys get, you
know, 140, 150,000 dollars down.
because they're charging 'em 450 dollars a week
and the business is actually a little bit down, so
it's tough for them to get the money up."
VINCE FENNERTY:
That makes sense
Mark, with Germantown
Cab, they're a partial rights.
allowed Germantown.
Okay.
a medallion.
Under their, they're
Okay.
They're only
They don't have to buy
10
grandfathered in by the PUC.
11
(01:07:37)purchase one Certificate of Public
12
Convenience from us and renew it every year.
13
Where Medallion Cab have to have a medallion.
14
It's one cab, one Certificate of Public
15
Convenience.
16
which is 150 dollars a year.
17
from us.
18
19
Okay.
TYRON ALI:
They only have to
And one fee for that cab,

That's their assessment
Mm-hm.
Plus, they have to be
81
(01:07:58)inspected twice a year.
TYRON ALI:
Mm-hm.
VINCE FENNERTY:
Germantown Cab, they're
a partial rights cab.
They're 1,500 dollars a
year.
We have to police them the same as everyone
else.
Okay.
twice a year.
They're flooding the market with these cabs.
won't put shields in 'em.
Now, they have to be inspected by us

They have no start-up cost.
Okay.
They
They're not showing up
10
for inspections and they have an attorney by the
11
(01:08:19)name Michael Henry who's promising them the
12
world.
13
Okay.
14
can't come out of their territory or else these
15
businessmen, okay, who are, who have spent 300,000
16
dollars-plus for a medallion or these poor cab
17
drivers that ride by here every day that are
18
leasing it.
They're fighting us every day in court.

They're fighting us.
19
TYRON ALI:
20
VINCE FENNERTY:
21
We have to, they
Mm-hm.
Okay.
There's no work
(01:08:42)for them if I let Germantown run all
82
(01:08:42)over them.
Stay up where you're at.
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:
VINCE FENNERTY:
RON WATERS:
Right.
Right.
You got too many cars.
Right.
This guy's losing his
home and everything, foreclosing on his home and
everything.
misdemeanor is all.
expungeable.
10
He said it's a summary and a

Everything else he's got is
VINCE FENNERTY:
11
(01:08:59)what he's got.
12
to see me?
13
RON WATERS:
I, I don't remember
How long ago was he in
He was in -- what, what was it
14
last time he was here to put it, the first time,
15
Joe?
16
of people since then.
About two years ago.
17
18
19
VINCE FENNERTY:
I know he's seen a lot
What's his phone
number?
RON WATERS:
20
267-978-9616.
Okay.
21
(01:09:23)to Vince.
What's your phone number?

All right.
Okay?
I just gave it
So listen, when you
83
(01:09:25)come in, bring all your evidence you
have to about [inaudible]-
TYRON ALI:
hired Horsey.
and done better.
6
7
That's pretty funny they
Okay.
VINCE FENNERTY:
All right.
He said he
Even if I had a slot
open, okay, I gotta get a report to us from the

State Police.
11
12
I know.
VINCE FENNERTY:
It's gonna take me four
weeks.
14
15
RON WATERS:
Okay.
All right.
But he'll
bring it in if you, if you --
16
VINCE FENNERTY:
See, I get it all
17
online.
18
have any arrests, it'd come right back to me the
19
same day.
20
21
Okay?
has the most recent State Police Report.
10
13
Or expunge.
They could have hired that switch
RON WATERS:
8
9
Okay.
If you guys gave me somebody that didn't
RON WATERS:
Okay.
Okay.
But the way the
84
(01:10:02)inadequate State Police are, if they
have a hit, they gotta send it to me by mail and
it takes four weeks.
RON WATERS:
VINCE FENNERTY:
RON WATERS:
7
8
9
Okay.
TYRON ALI:
I'll get him in.
Okay.
He'll give you a call.
All right.
All right.
Take care.
Okay?
At one point, we did,
indeed, represent the International Taxi Cab
10
Brotherhood.
11
(01:10:06)knowing all these things about --
12
That's how I winded up doing, yes,
VINCE FENNERTY:
If you would have told
13
that to Carly, it would have pulled his glock out and
14
shot you on the spot.
Without trial.
15
RON WATERS:
Without trial.
16
TYRON ALI:
17
Solomon, Grayson, Ademan,
they're all --
18
RON WATERS:
19
TYRON ALI:
I know.
-- part of the team.
I've
20
known Drew since I was probably 21 years old.
21
(01:10:38)Nice guy.
He's very effective at what
85
(01:10:38)he does, and Zack is brilliant.
RON WATERS:
Hold on.
VINCE FENNERTY:
Hold on.
We're not, we're not
having that many problems -- (inaudible) have
calmed down and he called.
and see me --
RON WATERS:
VINCE FENNERTY:
He wants to come in
Mm-hm.
-- and I told my
secretary, I said, it was yesterday afternoon.
10
said, "Don't give him no appointment.
Go over to
11
(01:10:57)Legal and find out if he's got any
12
active suits against us.
13
suits against us, I can't talk to him without his
14
attorney --
If he has any active
15
TYRON ALI:
16
VINCE FENNERTY:
-- and my attorney
VINCE FENNERTY:
Although I don't think
17
Counsel.
there."
18
19
he does.
And what we're trying to do with new
20
(01:11:09)regulations, is we're really trying to protect
86
(01:11:09)them a little bit better.
to require, we are requiring the owners of the
vehicles, okay, to put better vehicles out there,
okay, that we want no more going to New York.
TYRON ALI:
VINCE FENNERTY:
Nothing past five years.

Oh, no.
It's going to
be nothing past --
TYRON ALI:
VINCE FENNERTY:
10
11
We are going
TYRON ALI:
Two years?
-- two years.
Got it.
Two years?
12
TYRON ALI:
Mm-hm.
13
RON WATERS:
14
TYRON ALI:
15
VINCE FENNERTY:
For taxis?
Yeah.
Right now what they're
16
doing is, they're going to New York and buying a
17
cab --
18
TYRON ALI:
Mm-hm.
19
VINCE FENNERTY:
-- that New York forces
20
out.
And that's what I'm getting here, or they're
21
(01:11:38)going out to the suburban --
87
Oh, wow.
VINCE FENNERTY:
-- or out to the
suburban Police Departments and buying police
cars.
TYRON ALI:
Mm-hm.
RON WATERS:
VINCE FENNERTY:
A thousand dollars.
Yeah.
For about five
or six thousand dollars.
Well, the investment,
and the statute says the owner of the medallion,
10
okay, the investment in the medallion, okay, is
11
(01:11:55)also their responsibility to put good
12
cars on the street, which they're putting much
13
better cars on the street in the last five years.
14
But you still need to be upgraded.
15
York, you don't get in a piece of shit like this
16
here.
17
TYRON ALI:
18
VINCE FENNERTY:
You go to New
Mm-hm.
We're not New York,
19
okay.
You go to Atlanta, okay, you don't even get
20
in a piece of shit like this.
21
(01:12:16)where in the hell did we get into a
If you go to --
88
(01:12:16)filthy rotten cab?
RON WATERS:
VINCE FENNERTY:
Probably in Jersey.
No.
Where they have
Mardi Gras.
5
6
Somewhere.
RON WATERS:
Oh, New Orleans.
Yeah.
Oh,
yeah.
VINCE FENNERTY:
We went down to New
Orleans one time to a convention.
gets in the cab with me, okay.
Kathy Rhodes
She had a white
10
sun dress on, she got out of the cab, we were
11
(01:12:37)sweating.
12
conditioning.
13
whole back of her dress was black.
There was no air
Her sweat attracted the dirt.
14
RON WATERS:
15
VINCE FENNERTY:
The
Wow.
Okay.
I came back and
16
I went on a rampage about the inside of the car,
17
see, because the impression I had of New Orleans
18
was horrible and I didn't want that here.
19
RON WATERS:
20
VINCE FENNERTY:
21
Right.
But, you know, right
(01:12:58)now, the biggest problem we have right
89
(01:12:58)now is Germantown Cab.
that has taken up their cause, okay, is Curt
Thomas.
RON WATERS:
Curt?
The only person
But he is a, but this
guy is one of those out-on-the-range guys.
mean, this, this guy, he does that stuff.
can't control him.
8
9
VINCE FENNERTY:
Rep and half of my 18th Ward, where I'm Ward

Leader, down in Fishtown in north Philly.
11
12
Yeah.
VINCE FENNERTY:
No.
'Cause he --
Not up in Germantown.
He's always been brought in --
14
RON WATERS:
15
VINCE FENNERTY:
16
We
Curt Thomas is my State
10
13
You got what, 66?

No.
I got 31 and 18.
I got Fishtown and Kensington and Port Richmond.
17
RON WATERS:
Oh, well, you're a Ward Leader.
18
VINCE FENNERTY:
19
RON WATERS:
Yeah.
Well, who was (inaudible)?
20
Was that 66?
21
Oh, that's 66.
That's
90
(01:13:33)where I have to go --
RON WATERS:
VINCE FENNERTY:
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

That one's put with
Taylor.
I got Taylor in 31.
in part of 31.
and I got Curt in part of 18.
I got Mike O'Brien in part of 18
RON WATERS:
VINCE FENNERTY:
his district is.
Oh.
is.
11
TYRON ALI:
13
VINCE FENNERTY:
14
Urban Affairs hearing.
15
there.
16
Okay?
Yeah.
Okay.
Okay.
We go up for an
Michael Henry's up
They're up there, Germantown's up there.

And the new guy, Mike Horsey's, up there.
TYRON ALI:
But he's not, he's not
registered.
19
RON WATERS:
20
TYRON ALI:
21
But that's where
I know.
12
18
Okay.
Germantown is up where Rosita
10
17
I got Mike O'Brien
He used to work here.

He's got to be a consultant.
(01:14:09)He's not, he's not registered.
91
RON WATERS:
VINCE FENNERTY:
Mike worked here.
Yeah.
He's one of us.
Okay.
He worked with us before he got there.
RON WATERS:
Yeah.
VINCE FENNERTY:
I remember that.
All right.
So, he
said, "I'm up on Germantown Cab now."
"You'd be better off being with Afghanistan."
RON WATERS:
10
I said,
He wants to meet with me.
VINCE FENNERTY:
Oh, fuck.
11
He wants to -- my staff in
12
Harrisburg called me and said he wants to meet
13
with me and Vanessa Brown on Monday.
14
VINCE FENNERTY:
15
RON WATERS:
16
17
18
I have no idea what this is
about.
VINCE FENNERTY:
Oh, it's about
Germantown Cab --
19
RON WATERS:
20
VINCE FENNERTY:
21
Duck 'em.
(01:14:37)and --
You just told me.

-- and the regulations
92
Traffic Court.
I thought he was running for
VINCE FENNERTY:
RON WATERS:
VINCE FENNERTY:
TYRON ALI:
No, no, no, no, no.
Oh, he didn't file.

Never.
He didn't file.
Christine Soloman, Christine
Solomon's going to be the pick.
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
Okay.
Marnie Alman, she's not
10
going to get in.
Donna begged me yesterday, she
11
(01:14:47)was, like, "Could you please" -- 'cause
12
everybody was down at Chicke and Petes last night and
13
she begged me.
14
can't."
She was, like, "Ty."
15
RON WATERS:
16
TYRON ALI:
17
RON WATERS:
18
TYRON ALI:
Donna who?
Donna Aument.
Oh.
Yeah.
Oh.
'Cause they're
19
getting, there's a huge push --
20
RON WATERS:
21
I was, "I
Where would she go?
(01:14:49)supporting them.
She was
93
push.
3
4
-- to get rid of Maria, huge
Where actually -VINCE FENNERTY:
Who would they like to
get rid of?
TYRON ALI:
Maria Quinones.
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
Yeah, I know that.

Huge push.
So, we're going
to be on the opposite side of that fight.
gonna go with Danni.
10
11
RON WATERS:
The (inaudible).
Yeah, yeah.
12
RON WATERS:
13
TYRON ALI:
Okay.
Just like that young kid,
14
Tim Wysonewsky, the Business Manager for
15
Kensington, we're actually, we're going out
16
Thursday, I guess.
17
something, but we are really gonna try to
18
influence that particular race.
19
for us.
20
21
We're going to The Palm or
RON WATERS:
We're
It makes sense
Mm-hm.
Makes sense for us, you
94
(01:15:26)know.
2
3
VINCE FENNERTY:
Who
are you with, with that?
4
5
Which was that?
TYRON ALI:
Danny and Maria.
We want, we
definitely want Danny.
VINCE FENNERTY:
Everybody wants Danny.
She's, they're both my friends, but Danny's my
friend for a long time.
TYRON ALI:
Dannys a good guy.
10
guy.
11
12
against Maria Quinones for Council.
Talk to John Sabotina.
13
14
Danny's a good
TYRON ALI:
No, he's running
Yeah.
For Council.
And you
know what's weird, is her hiring Carlos.
15
VINCE FENNERTY:
16
TYRON ALI:
17
RON WATERS:
18
TYRON ALI:
For what?
She hired Carlos Matos.

She hired him?
Yes.
Yeah.
19
Carlos.
20
where are you guys gonna be?"
21
(01:15:59)we're with you guys."
She hired
So Anhelm tells me, he's like, "Yo, Ty,

I said, "Listen,
95
2
3
TYRON ALI:
Okay.
You know?
'Cause the deal's
being cut now.
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
Mm.
When I worked for St. Hill,
I remember when we were looking at the parking
tickets and that kind of thing.
saying to myself, "Wow, that's a lot of money."
There were literally thousands, and I'm going back
And I remember
10
13, 14, years.
11
Yeah, about 13 years.
12
that were, like, what we thought was just two
13
or three million dollars winded up being so much
14
more, but I guess the efficiency has grown
15
trememdously.
16
Has it been that long?
(01:16:30)
The number of tickets
VINCE FENNERTY:
Realistically, out of,
17
we're at about 82 percent closure.
18
percent's out of there, my professional guess is.
19
Okay.
20
Ten percent of it's bullshit.

Okay.
Out of the 18
96
about 18 --
3
4
TYRON ALI:
Okay.
There's only
So you're really at about
90-something percent.
VINCE FENNERTY:
Okay?
This is, this is
Philadelphia.
And you can't explain this
to a reporter.
floating all over the fucking world.
People don't renew their tags.
Okay.
There are dead tags

Okay.
They're dead tags.
10
Okay.
11
(01:17:14)they have their brother's who died, in
12
the basement, put 'em on the cars.
13
registered with a perfectly good tag.
14
these fucking tags around, okay.
15
tags around getting tickets on it, okay, then when
16
they get the boot notice, they put their other tag
17
back on, switch them.
18
have magnets on the back of tags, their own tag
19
that they drive around.
20
21
They have them in their basement, okay,
RON WATERS:
Car's
They run
They run the
There's people actually
Oh, yeah.
Hey Ty, they got a
97
(01:17:22)bogus tag.
RON WATERS:
Yeah.
VINCE FENNERTY:
They got a bogus tag
that they slap over.
parking ticket on it, it don't mean nothing.
Okay.
off, so that way, they don't get caught by the cop
whith the livestop.
When they park, we write the
When they drive away, they take it the fuck
RON WATERS:
yeah.
10
that.
11
12
shit out there.
13
RON WATERS:
Yeah.
I thought about
There's all kind of
Do they still have these people
14
putting emblems on their tags that was against the
15
law?
16
State House.
17
blocking some of the numbers on the license.
18
19
20
21
I found that out before it even went to the

Cops would always put the emblems,
VINCE FENNERTY:
Ramsey, Ramsey issued an
order that there's nothing on the tags.

RON WATERS:
Good.
Okay, about two years
98
(01:17:56)ago.
RON WATERS:
VINCE FENNERTY:
Okay.
parking down by CJC.
RON WATERS:
VINCE FENNERTY:
But there's still some
Yeah.
Okay.
Blocking part of
the taxi --
RON WATERS:
Right, right, right.
VINCE FENNERTY:
And they're even
10
slicker.
They take a piece of paper, slide it
11
(01:18:09)over the VIN number so we can't get the
12
17 digits --
13
RON WATERS:
Yeah.
14
VINCE FENNERTY:
-- to write them, for
15
the tag out to write the ticket.
16
order, if the tag is blocked, impound it.
17
RON WATERS:
18
VINCE FENNERTY:
He issued us an
Whoa.
Impound it.
19
Obstructed tag, and then we actually cut
20
them off.
21
Mm-hm.
Okay.
99
okay?
tag, and then we have to send over to his office
and they have to go fucking see him to get their
car back.
8
9
RON WATERS:
Yeah.
They got to pay for
another license plate.

VINCE FENNERTY:
They have to, they have to
fucking pay for how many days they're fucking
10
getting off of work for it.
11
(01:18:46)ain't had one in a year.
12
RON WATERS:
13
VINCE FENNERTY:
14
RON WATERS:
15
We cut them off,
Write the ticket, impound it for an obstructed
6
7
Okay.
Commissioner.
16
Okay.
I mean, I
Two days?
Okay.
He's a hell of a daggone
I like that guy right there.
VINCE FENNERTY:
I haven't had one.
17
had one from the University of Pennsylvania, the
18
parking.
19
him, the guy gives him a whole bunch of shit.
20
21
Okay.
Carl goes down on it, and the guy gives
RON WATERS:
Yeah.
Then we find out he
100
(01:19:17)works for U of P as a detective.
calls me and says, "You wanna call your girlfriend
over there?"
President for Public Safety.
Police Department.
so, I call her.
she said, "Did you cover your tag?"
Okay.
He
Maureen Rush is the Vice

She came up in the
She was a Police Chief.
She said, "What?"
RON WATERS:
VINCE FENNERTY:
"Oh, yeah."
cover your VIN?"
"Yeah."
11
(01:19:41)month.
You got 30 days.
12
out of here."
13
RON WATERS:
14
VINCE FENNERTY:
like, four detectives.
16
spot.
17
think you are?"
And they only had,
She suspended him on the
RON WATERS:
19
VINCE FENNERTY:
21
Get the fuck
Whoa.
18
that problem anymore.
"Did you
"See you in a fucking
"Get the fuck out of here.
20
Walked in,
Uh-huh.
10
15
Okay.
Now she,
Who do you
Ah.
I mean, I don't have
I tell you, man, I
101
(01:19:53)tell you, one of the worst tickets I
ever wrote was on a off-duty Police Officer's car.
He said, "You didn't see that fucking FOP on my
car?"
that on the ticket too?"
smart-assed motherfucker."
what, but I usually, 'cause cops always got
attitude.
got in my face.
10
I said, "Yes, I did.
You want me to write
He said, "You
But I'll tell you
Those are the only people that really

But I wrote a lot of tickets.
VINCE FENNERTY:
11
(01:20:19)older cops.
12
RON WATERS:
Older cops.
Older,
They're the ones that don't
13
want to change, 'cause at one time they was the
14
only ones writing tickets.
15
time to adjust to the fact that there's a new
16
Sheriff in town.
17
VINCE FENNERTY:
18
RON WATERS:
19
20
21
So it took them a long
Mm-hm.
And that we now have the
authority to write these daggone tickets.

VINCE FENNERTY:
Up until --
They hated us for that.
102
we would write the tickets and certain culture
would go down.
Clarice would let them off on their tickets.
BAI, I was this, I was that.
RON WATERS:
VINCE FENNERTY:
Mm-hm.
RON WATERS:
VINCE FENNERTY:
11
What do you think Jerry
Connors is doing?
10
Up until last summer,
I know.
Guilty, guilty, guilty,
guilty.
RON WATERS:
They tell me, anybody going
12
down to damn PBA now is saying they walk out of
13
there with a frown.
14
Hearing Officer's case.
15
have a" -- 'cause Clarice was doing some --
Jerry's monitoring every

He's saying, "You better
16
VINCE FENNERTY:
17
RON WATERS:
18
19
weird shit.
-- weird shit.
--- weird shit.
She was doing
She calls for the --
VINCE FENNERTY:
20
wanted the audit.
21
She was the one who
Yeah.
She called me.
103
winded up getting jammed up.
She called for the audit and
RON WATERS:
Just like people who call the
Parking Authority and said, "I want you to come
down here and enforce the area."
call us saying, "I got a ticket."
you called for enforcement."
And then they
Mm-hm.
I said, "Well,
VINCE FENNERTY:
TYRON ALI: Actually, can I e-mail it to you?
10
I'll e-mail you all my information.
11
12
13
14
TYRON ALI:
Do you have your card?
Well, this guy, this, this -That's funny.
Thank you,
sir.
RON WATERS:
I'll never forget one time,
15
Vince, this guy impressed me so much with one act.
16
I mean, a lot of stuff that he did, but this one thing
17
dealing with the Police that stands out.
18
ticket on my PPA van.
19
20th and Chestnut.
20
I went in there and got a sandwich and a cup of
21
(01:21:48)soup.
I got a
I'm in a loading zone at
It was a Dunkin' Donuts there.
I'm sitting in my van eating my
104
(01:21:48)meal.
A cop pulls up behind me.
him.
loading zone.
eating, I drive off.
me and pulls me over at 20th and Market.
"I got a ticket for you."
what?"
I said --
I see
He's in a no-stopping zone 'cause I'm in the

So then, so then, after I finish
He drives off right behind
He said,
I said, "A ticket for
He said, "For being in the loading zone."
TYRON ALI:
10
Wow.
RON WATERS:
I said, "I can park in the
11
(01:22:11)loading zone."
He said, "No, you cant.
12
gives me a ticket.
13
here.
14
back here.
15
on a PPA van for being in a loading zone."
16
"Let me see the ticket."
I give Vince the ticket.
17
guy is a miracle worker.
He wanted the cop's name,
18
found out if he has a car.
19
personal car.
20
PPA person.
21
(01:22:46)out on me for a ticket that he got in
I don't argue with him.
He
I come back
We was at Broad and Callowhill then before we moved

Yeah.
I said, "Vince, a cop writes me a ticket

Vince said,
This
The cop has his own
He got a ticket in Frankford by a

So what he did, he just made, he took it
105
(01:22:49)his own personal car.
have to do anything with the ticket.
the Captain up there at the Ninth, Ninth District
and told the Captain what happened.
told the cop who wrote me the ticket, "You go down
to the fucking Parking Authority at Broad County
Hill and pick the goddamn ticket up and you pay
that damn ticket."
professional.
10
or some shit.
11
12
13
I didn't even
Vince called
The Captain
'Cause that was not
It was -- I don't know -- vengeance
RON WATERS:
Retaliation.
But I said, "Damn, Vince.
didn't know you could do this shit."
14
VINCE FENNERTY:
You gotta make 'em
15
respect you, and that's what I've always said.
16
Like, I got one, I got one case now.
17
what I'm gonna do with it.
18
(inaudible) Sheriff punch one of my PAs in the
19
face.
20
21
RON WATERS:
I don't know
I had a Sheriff
What?
So, went over to Ninth
106
(01:23:31)District.
They sent it to the DA's
office.
thing back from a guy named Gozzy, I think, so
whoever the PEO was.
one-on-one file, private criminal complaint.
From what -- I haven't gotten an official
DA's office said it was a
RON WATERS:
VINCE FENNERTY:
8
9
10
Not no more.
Get the fuck out of
here.
RON WATERS:
State law changed that.
VINCE FENNERTY:
Well, we said that.
11
(01:23:48)State law changed it.
12
RON WATERS:
13
VINCE FENNERTY:
14
RON WATERS:
15
VINCE FENNERTY:
16
Changed it around.
We wrote that.
Right.
We said that.
And they
said, "Not enough evidence."
17
RON WATERS:
Bullshit.
18
VINCE FENNERTY:
I said, "I, I, I'm
19
gonna wait till it comes back and I'm going to go
20
talk, I'm going to go call Seth"
21
(01:23:56)fuck is this?
What the
107
here when that law, 'cause it would protect
teachers, I think it was to protect teachers and
PEOs, was, was classified as a protected class.
5
6
State law.
VINCE FENNERTY:
RON WATERS:
VINCE FENNERTY:
10
Denny O'Brien's
house, remember?
I remember I was
it.
Yeah.
The protected class.
Denny OBrien sponsored
He was State Chairman of the Judiciary.

RON WATERS:
Right.
11
12
we were subjects were beaten, spit on,
13
everything.
14
RON WATERS:
15
VINCE FENNERTY:
Okay.
Because we kept,
Mm-hm.
Okay.
And nobody could
16
get locked because we weren't in a protected class
17
and Denny ran the bill for us.
18
RON WATERS:
19
VINCE FENNERTY:
20
protected class.
21
Yeah.
Okay.
Yeah.
And put us in a
108
class.
3
4
RON WATERS:
Right.
And now, you good.
VINCE FENNERTY:
Christ.
That was 1991
or '93.
RON WATERS:
VINCE FENNERTY:
RON WATERS:
It was awhile ago.

Yeah.
It was a while.
I was, I was
10
working here when that happened.
11
(01:24:36)thankful because PEOs were getting their
12
ass kicked out there.
13
VINCE FENNERTY:
I was so
Elijah carries that
14
bill around in his briefcase because we still get
15
cops that don't understand it.
16
RON WATERS:
17
VINCE FENNERTY:
18
19
You
don't have to file a personal complaint anymore.
5
6
We're a protected
Right.
Right.
That, he still carries
that original.
RON WATERS:
I still carried it around, too,
20
when I was here.
I don't blame him.
21
And, and, and we, we
109
(01:24:51)still, we still get it.
2
3
RON WATERS:
Yeah.
Well, he done a
lot of good things.
4
5
Mm-hm.
VINCE FENNERTY:
So, what they got?
Two
lawyers and two paralegals.
TYRON ALI:
Two lawyers and two
paralegals, but that's not the kicker in the ass.
The kicker in the ass is the fact that we've got
the Earn Center, so everybody's going to wind up
10
being a certified paralegal.
11
(01:25:09)Master System is incredible because it's
12
a web-based application.
13
Jim and say, "Hey, Jim, Ticket Number 00374, cease
14
and desist now."
15
plug it into your system here, immediately we can
16
update.
17
18
19
The Comptronic Debt
Let's say that you call
You make the phone call, you
VINCE FENNERTY:
Who are the two
attorneys that work there?

TYRON ALI:
We've got two young guys, man.
20
One guy who just graduated from, from law school
21
(01:25:30)and another guy from Temple.
110
it, though?
3
4
TYRON ALI:
Who's the principal on
I actually own a piece of
it.
VINCE FENNERTY:
Mm-hm.
be honest with me and tell me.
TYRON ALI:
Well, I'm telling you.
We're having this conversation.
VINCE FENNERTY:
No, 'cause see,
10
everybody calling me (inaudible).
11
12
13
No.
VINCE FENNERTY:
We don't -You don't fucking bring
me a lobbyist in here.
14
TYRON ALI:
15
VINCE FENNERTY:
16
Well, you gotta
No.
No.
We put up --
But you know, you
didn't tell me.
17
TYRON ALI:
We, we put up --
18
VINCE FENNERTY:
Look at this.
He comes in all
19
decorated.
He comes in decorated
20
and he's a lobbyist.
21
(01:25:52)bringing me the owner.
You tell me you were
111
2
3
VINCE FENNERTY:
me the lowdown.
4
5
Huh.
Well, we, we -You didn't fucking give
I'm not gonna break his balls.
TYRON ALI:
[inaudible] -- I said that in the
beginning.
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
Which won't be the first time.

No, no, no, no, no.
But I
said, we put up the 300,000 dollars to get them
going, you know.
10
VINCE FENNERTY:
See, we -- what I said,
11
(01:26:07)I wasn't being kind.
12
TYRON ALI:
13
VINCE FENNERTY:
14
No, no, no.
TYRON ALI:
16
VINCE FENNERTY:
18
I want to find
something that's not fucking (inaudible).
15
17
That's fine.
I understand.
If there is, if there's
something there, it doesn't mean I can't -TYRON ALI:
Look, man, were not fucking
19
Lineberger, but we're trying to -- how long have
20
you known me?
21
It's been ten years, right?

A long time.
112
said we shopped Lineberger, we shopped Lineberger
by accident.
Lineberger.
TYRON ALI:
VINCE FENNERTY:
And (inaudible).
tell you the honest truth.
impressed with them.
every weekend.
11
12
Okay.
I'm gonna
And I was so
I go down the shore a lot,
Wildwood.
13
Nope, nope.
I got a condo down there. [inaudible]
RON WATERS:
When I
Let me tell you how we shopped
10
I'll be honest.
RON WATERS:
Down in Wildwood.
Yeah.
VINCE FENNERTY:
So one, me and my
14
brother alternate paying my mother's real estate
15
taxes.
16
trust -- you know, I usually have what it
17
(inaudible), you know, what the fuck you gonna do?
18
And I worry about it because my Dad's dead 15
19
years and my Mother has never changed the name
20
from Vincent Fennerty --
21
(01:27:04)her name.
I trust him about as much as I fucking
See, I'm Junior -- to
113
2
3
Mm-hm.
VINCE FENNERTY:
So, you get some
reporter searching real estate tax records --
TYRON ALI:
Mm-hm.
RON WATERS:
VINCE FENNERTY:
Uh-huh.
Oh, yeah.
-- and come up with
Fennerty, Fennerty Delinquent, and I would have to explain
it's my mother's, and you know, they could love
this story.
10
11
first.
12
13
If they don't go to the press
VINCE FENNERTY:
Yeah.
Yeah.
If they,
if they call --
14
RON WATERS:
Yeah, I know.
15
VINCE FENNERTY:
If they ran it and
16
didn't call, I think I could have a good libel
17
suit, but --
18
RON WATERS:
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
19
VINCE FENNERTY:
So I always check.
20
I guess it's four or five years ago, whenever,
21
(01:27:27)before we started with Lineberger.
So
Has
114
(01:27:31)to be four or five years ago.
I call
and check it.
get Susan to check it.
my other properties.
nothin' delinquent.
know, I always check on the mortgage companies,
too.
Call over Jack Kelly's office,

I said, All right.
Here's
Check and make sure there's

The house I'm livin' in, I
RON WATERS:
Mm-hm.
VINCE FENNERTY:
Because I have
10
experienced one time, I get a Delinquency Notice
11
(01:27:50)from the City.
12
from the fuckin', from CitiBank.
13
when it got down there, got in the supply.
14
O'Neil's got office, got the City to track it.
15
But I always check everything just because I want
16
to avoid any paranoia.
17
is fine.
18
divorced from Marge, well, separated from Margie.
19
She was living down -- I said, "Check Bowery
20
Street."
21
(01:28:12)you owe some money on that?"
I look at the statement

CitiBank paid it
Brian
So, she says, "Your house
Your mother's house is fine."
Margie always paid it.
I was
She said, "Don't

Said,
115
(01:28:14)"What?"
it was two-and-a-half years or three-and-a-half
years worth of taxes."
Thursday.
was, you know, I said, "How much is the total?"
Well, the house taxes down in Port Richmond, they
were about 600 bucks.
almost, it was either three or three-and-a-half,
either two-and-a-half or three-and-a-half years,
Okay?
She said, "I don't remember if
Now, this was on a
So I said, "All right."
And I
So, I guess it was
10
she paid half of it.
Don't ask me why.
11
(01:28:29)her on the phone.
Now, we're all real
12
good now.
I said, "You know,
13
what's with the house taxes?"
14
out of it.
15
was fixing it up.
16
a bee in my bonnet about a few things you did, so
17
I just didn't pay them."
Then we weren't.
Okay.
I call
And she had moved
It was sitting there vacant.

And she said, "Oh, well, I got
18
RON WATERS:
Oh.
19
VINCE FENNERTY:
So the Delinquency
20
Notices were going back to the property.
Well,
21
(01:29:05)she had just moved out so she got all
116
(01:29:06)delinquent and nobody told me.
"What the fuck?"
that night.
to know anything, so I went down, down the next
morning.
process in the basement of the concourse of MSB.
"Oh, no, sir.
(inaudible) these fuckin' people.
9
10
I said,
And I was going down the shore
I stayed up here, didn't want anybody
I went down and did the four-hour
You gotta go to List line."
RON WATERS:
(inaudible)
Yeah, I know.
VINCE FENNERTY:
I get, finally get over
11
(01:29:29)to the final line.
12
to do was pay it.
13
question is, people said, okay, Sue from Jack
14
Kelly's office said, "If you go and go through the
15
lines and you want to pay the whole thing, a lot
16
of times they'll say, Okay.
17
you pay it in full."
18
attention, so I go through this line.
19
the next line."
20
21
Okay.
Now, all's I wanted
And if, you know, normal
We'll waive this if
I didn't want no special

"Oh, no,
So, I'm sittin', right?
RON WATERS:
Mm-hm.
Now, you know my
117
(01:29:54) temper.
I was embarrassed.
didn't want anybody to know who I am.
goin', "Hey, Vince.
People
How you doing?"
RON WATERS:
VINCE FENNERTY:
Right?
Yeah.
I just went, what the
fuck?
So I finally got up the whole line
where I'm s'posed to be.
having misdirected you for the last couple of
lines.
"Sir, we're really sorry
You shouldn't have had to do this.
10
case is in Collections at Lineberger."
11
(01:30:10)Lineberger?"
12
RON WATERS:
13
VINCE FENNERTY:
"What's a
Oh.
All right.
So, it's
14
about two o'clock.
15
over to Lineberger's office, down in the
16
Concourse.
17
Center.
18
There's two or three people ahead of me.
19
my turn.
20
ever dealt with.
21
Okay?
This
They tell me, you gotta go
Under 2 Penn Center or 3 Penn
So, I walk over.
I go and I sit.
I wait
I give it the most professional people I
Wow.
118
Okay.
"Look," they said, "we, you're at this point.
There's no waiving it.
the only thing we can do is we can split it in
half for you."
Okay.
RON WATERS:
VINCE FENNERTY:
And they said,
We can give you,
Okay.
"Pay half now, okay,
half in three months."
Okay.
(01:30:46)Half in three months.
Okay.
They said,
10
"We'll stop our attorney's fees."
11
couple hundred bucks attorney fees on it.
12
stop it if you pay it in full, then.
13
additional things."
14
can work out?
15
nasty, okay.
16
I'm a deadbeat.
"We'll
There's no
I said, "There's no deal I
Nothing this, nothing that?"
Never
And I'm thinking, I'm sittin' there,
17
RON WATERS:
18
VINCE FENNERTY:
19
They had a
(01:31:06) I was.
Mm-hm.
Okay?
Because
I didn't know I owed it
119
(01:31:06)but they were my taxes.
no problem.
the check for the whole thing and I see that all
she had to do was tell me she wasn't fuckin'
paying 'em, 'cause I think by the time everything
was over --
I'll pay the whole thing."
RON WATERS:
VINCE FENNERTY:
I said, "Okay,
I wrote
Mm-hm.
-- it was 900 bucks in
additional fees.
10
RON WATERS:
Mm-hm, mm-hm.
11
12
that process, okay, of the professionalism, how it
13
was handled, and this was at a point, okay, when
14
we got rid of National Credit Bureau, (inaudible)
15
and didn't have anyone, and I didn't know who they
16
were.
17
RON WATERS:
18
VINCE FENNERTY:
19
20
21
But when I went through
Mm-hm.
Okay.
That the
professionalism they gave.

RON WATERS:
You liked their style.
I liked their style and
120
I wanted it.
And then, and then, they ended up on
my table, like, three months later.
RON WATERS:
Okay.
VINCE FENNERTY:
(1:31:53)
And I had already, and
I actually told 'em, "You had me."
"Because of a marital thing," I said, "was paid in
full that day," I said.
wanted to know what date I paid it.
RON WATERS:
10
I said,
But everybody, they
Mm-hm.
VINCE FENNERTY:
I wouldn't tell 'em
11
(01:32:04)nothin'.
I'm sure they went back and
12
figured out what it was that whoever it was that
13
handled it --
14
RON WATERS:
Mm-hm.
15
TYRON ALI:
16
VINCE FENNERTY:
17
told they did a good job.
Of course.
18
TYRON ALI:
19
VINCE FENNERTY:
20
them.
21
-- should have been
Of course.
But I wouldn't tell
Okay.
121
VINCE FENNERTY:
Okay.
But I, I, I told
them after we met with them three or four times
that I personally experienced it.
were, I couldn't say that my people would have
been that nice.
TYRON ALI:
And it, they
Sure, you know, the other, the
other move becomes the PR issue for you, and I
understand that.
of central issues.
That is perhaps a core central
10
11
four years.
12
collect the tickets for that.
13
computer systems and everything for us.
14
be five.
Okay.
ACS has the job for
They process the tickets, they

They run all the
Used to
We just knocked 'em down to four.
15
TYRON ALI:
Mm-hm.
16
VINCE FENNERTY:
And two years ago.
17
there's other scenarios where we can pull stuff
18
out.
19
more than 2,500 dollars at any time.
20
(01:33:00)have to wait to four years.
And
We can pull stuff out if an individual owes

It don't
And we pull
122
(01:33:01)that out and send them right over to
Lineberger for collection.
collection.
response off of that.
That's fresh
They usually get a pretty good
TYRON ALI:
Mm-hm.
VINCE FENNERTY:
Or they get to, they
file the MC Court motions on 'em right away and
scare the shit out of them.
scenario where I can pull it out other than four
10
years.
11
(01:33:24)does a good job.
12
limited.
13
of it.
And that's the only
And, you know, they do a good job.
ACS
Phone calling is very
I don't believe Lineberger does too much
14
TYRON ALI:
They don't.
15
VINCE FENNERTY:
We have, we know we
16
haven't directed them to do that.
Because
17
National Credit was doin' it and we took such a
18
fuckin' roasting about the phone calls and
19
harassing people for parking tickets on the phone.
20
Okay.
21
(01:33:48)calling.
We really haven't started it.
ACS does
123
Mm-hm.
VINCE FENNERTY:
Mm-hm.
Okay.
They use a firm
to do calling and they get pretty good results
with that.
Rick wants to do more of it.
release people on the phone, and I think
Lineberger probably would do a pretty good job at
it, just based on what, the good experience I had.
reporters don't fuckin' believe the Parking
But we have never really went on and

Every time you
10
Authority.
11
(01:34:13)tells them the story.
They believe the fuckin' asshole who
12
TYRON ALI:
13
RON WATERS:
14
16
Sure.
That's the story.
I mean, that's the story.
15
TYRON ALI:
18
RON WATERS:
21
22
They still do Parking Wars?
I know this sounds almost -VINCE FENNERTY:
20
That's the,
And the thing that gets, and
17
19
But
Do what?
Do they still do Parking Wars up
there?
VINCE FENNERTY:
No, its over.
They said this
season's the final season we got 75,000 dollars going in

(01:34:29)the pool to get.
124
TYRON ALI:
Okay.
The one thing that, and I
know this sounds very trivial, but one of the
things that gets collection agencies into trouble
all the time is the fact that they don't Mirandize
folks over the phone, you know, that this is an
attempt to collect a debt--
VINCE FENNERTY:
TYRON ALI:
-- and give them that spiel
10
and always, it's, it's --
11
(01:34:44)
12
Right.
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
Is the debt large?
Yeah.
The fee is 2,000
13
dollars per incident.
14
they'll charge her, yeah.
15
mindful of all those things.
16
It's astronomical what
VINCE FENNERTY:
So, you gotta be
We have the reputation
17
for being brutally, brutally forceful in all our
18
collection methods.
19
driveway and take your car.
20
right now at the Northeast, they got their car
21
(01:35:07)isolated.
I'll go right up your

Okay?
I got somebody
They cut a boot off the car.
125
(01:35:14)
his driveway in the back, okay, with another car
in front of it.
soon as they move that other car, you know, I'm
pulling them fuckin' bolt cutters out.
fuckin' opening that gate and I'm taking that
fucking car out of that driveway right out of that
fuckin' garage.
Okay.
He's got it in
I got a manager up there.
RON WATERS:
there?
11
12
RON WATERS:
13
VINCE FENNERTY:
Yeah.
Okay.
Seventh District.
Well, right there.
15
RON WATERS:
16
VINCE FENNERTY:
17
I'm
You gonna have the Police
10
14
As
Okay.
Okay.
They cut the
boot off, guy has a couple of thousand in tickets.
18
RON WATERS:
Mm-hm.
19
VINCE FENNERTY:
Okay.
The car is
20
buried in his driveway.
I'm not wastin' time with
21
(01:35:39)another car in front of it.
As soon as
126
(01:35:39)that other car comes out, okay, I'll get
it.
RON WATERS:
Okay.
VINCE FENNERTY:
out if I have to.
three weeks.
Don't move, then we'll call, we'll call the
District.
We'll wait it out two or
They got another junker there.
We'll tell them what we got.

RON WATERS:
10
11
Okay?
I will wait that sucker
Mm-hm.
VINCE FENNERTY:
We'll then move the
(01:35:54)other car and take it.
12
TYRON ALI:
Most people who are
13
listening to what you're saying, they don't really
14
understand the pressure that's on the PPA in order
15
to collect.
16
RON WATERS:
17
TYRON ALI:
Mm-hm.
Because to be able to
18
finance all of these other projects, including the
19
schools.
20
21
RON WATERS:
Yeah.
It's ridiculous.
It's
127
(01:36:09)hundreds of millions of dollars.
saying.
RON WATERS:
VINCE FENNERTY:
I'm
Wheres your bathroom? [inaudible]

Straight back.
Go straight as
far as you can walk, make a right.
RON WATERS:
I'll be right back.
Vince, I need
that other thing, too, that we talked about. You got two of
of them? [discussion in background between Waters/Fennerty]
TYRON ALI:
You walking out or are
10
you coming back?
11
12
bathroom.
13
TYRON ALI:
14
RON WATERS:
15
Ill be right back.
Just went to the
Oh, okay.
No, Im just going to the restroom.
I gotta go to the game, though, man.
16
VINCE FENNERTY:
17
TYRON ALI:
All right.
Everybody's going to the
18
game.
They brought us, they brought me in 'cause
19
I used to be Executive Vice President for St.
20
Hill.
21
(01:37:14)Place.
I started lobbying.
I lobbied for Moody's
I lobbied for France and
128
(01:37:15)Associates.
Governmental Affairs about, maybe about a year,
year-and-a-half ago I was brought in specifically
to lobby the Black Caucus because I'm on, I'm on
the Republican lobby.
6
7
But --
VINCE FENNERTY:
These guys are my
friends.
8
9
And I was Director of
TYRON ALI:
I understand.
We're just
trying to move --
10
VINCE FENNERTY:
I mean, we grew, we grew, we
11
(01:37:31)grew up here, okay, together, me and
12
him.
13
VINCE FENNERTY:
He knows what broads I
14
fucked and I know --[inaudible)I could tell you stories.
15
You know, I wasn't being a wiseass.
16
You know, I had what they call a Motif 33?
17
TYRON ALI:
18
VINCE FENNERTY:
19
(inaudible) fuck her.
20
No.
I fucked the three of those
I, I usually have dinner
129
(01:37:54)with one of them, and week before last
Monday, he goes, "Ty, I just want you to know, I'm
going to be a little late."
all right?"
got." (Laughing).
Said, "Yeah.
VINCE FENNERTY:
TYRON ALI:
little bit of a shake.
that's astronomical.
up a business.
12
13
400,000.
14
15
This young lady I've
--[inaudible]--
They're not look for anything

They're trying, you know --
VINCE FENNERTY:
11
They're trying to start
We're in, we're in, almost
VINCE FENNERTY:
Traffic Court.
You
All these guys are looking for is a
10
I said, "Okay.
There you got to go to fucking
They got nobody doing it.
16
TYRON ALI:
We probably will.
16
VINCE FENNERTY:
17
TYRON ALI:
18
VINCE FENNERTY:
(inaudible) Thomasina.
Yeah.
And see if ah, they might want
19
to put an RFP out or something like that.
20
there's, nobody's doing it.
21
(01:38:37)as a pilot program.
But there's,
You could take it in
130
Mm-hm.
VINCE FENNERTY:
Mm-hm.
Okay, which wouldn't require
an RFP.
The pilot program, I mean, see the
problem I think they have with some of the Traffic
Court, and it could be worked out is there's
different fees on everything.
TYRON ALI:
VINCE FENNERTY:
Yes.
Okay.
So, there's a
CAT fund fee, a livestop fee, this fee.
The
10
actual fine is 69 dollars, so if you got 20
11
(01:39:07)percent --
12
TYRON ALI:
13
VINCE FENNERTY:
14
TYRON ALI:
15
VINCE FENNERTY:
Mm-hm.
Okay.
And I'm only using 20% --
Yes, yes, of course.

If you got 20 percent,
16
each portion, this collector would have to take a
17
20 percent shave, and I don't think anybody would
18
object to it.
19
get their license back if the ticket isn't fully
20
paid?
21
(01:39:25)I don't think they can get past it in
Okay.
But then, how does somebody
They can't get past that over there.
Okay.
131
(01:39:25)the District Justice level because
nobody uses collection agencies in District
Justice.
buddies that get a lit - -.
If we had Constables here, then Philadelphia Traffic
Court would collect a hell of a lot more money
because they'd be able, they ain't got nobody
fuckin' doing it.
They use the Constables, which are their
TYRON ALI:
10
We don't have Constables here.
Mm-hm.
VINCE FENNERTY:
You, you live in Bucks
11
(01:39:45)County, Delaware County?
12
live?
13
TYRON ALI:
14
VINCE FENNERTY:
15
TYRON ALI:
16
VINCE FENNERTY:
17
Where do you
Rittenhouse.
Oh, you live here.
Yeah.
Okay.
But you live out
there.
18
TYRON ALI:
19
VINCE FENNERTY.
20
your door.
21
(01:39:52)in Bensalem.
Mm-hm.
Okay.
You get a ticket.

Okay.
They knock on
Okay.
Let's say,
And you live down
132
(01:39:57)here in Philly, that Constable's coming
and knocking on your door for one ticket.
TYRON ALI:
Yeah.
VINCE FENNERTY:
Okay.
Or if you got
three, they're coming and knocking on your door,
"Yo, we'll take the payment right here."
days of the scams are what the Constables are
over.
It used to be all kinds --
TYRON ALI:
And if you don't pay,
10
they'll issue a bench warrant.
11
12
warrant.
TYRON ALI:
14
VINCE FENNERTY:
Mm-hm.
TYRON ALI:
17
VINCE FENNERTY:
19
Down here they don't do
that.
16
18
They'll issue a bench
You get picked up.
13
15
And the
mm-hm.
Okay?
Traffic Court,
our tickets are, the low end is 30, is 26.

TYRON ALI:
Mm-hm.
20
21
they're only --
The high end's 300 and
133
1
2
Handicap piece.
VINCE FENNERTY:
hundreds of dollars.
TYRON ALI:
VINCE FENNERTY:
6
7
Everything over there's
Mm-hm, mm-hm, mm-hm.

There's nothin' under a
hundred and nine or something like that.

TYRON ALI:
When he and I, we were
talking, he said to me, he goes, "Look, if you
guys are willing to, we will try to help you get
10
some of the things positioned because it creates
11
(01:40:38)jobs, it's taxes, it's this, it's that."
12
VINCE FENNERTY:
I couldn't even sell
13
one cyber collect.
I mean, ACS fought me that
14
this is crazy.
15
said, "My lawyer's looked at it.
16
said, just, it was a pain in the ass.
17
lot of computer programming.
It's illegal.
18
TYRON ALI:
19
VINCE FENNERTY:
I said. "Do it."

It's legal."
I
I
It was a
Mm-hm.
And I, the only reason
20
I threw that up is 'cause I didn't know where you
21
(01:41:01)were coming from.
134
2
3
Sure.
VINCE FENNERTY:
This Calderone
called me and asked me could somebody come down.
TYRON ALI:
What?
VINCE FENNERTY:
TYRON ALI:
VINCE FENNERTY:
Tom Calderone?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Of course.
Calderone asked me, speaking of
Calderone, he asked me could somebody come down.
know, I didn't know him.
10
like [inaudible]-
11
12
If he walked in a door, it's just
Sure.
VINCE FENNERTY:
But somebody called.
13
said, "Yeah."
14
fascinated me.
15
it out.
16
fee right out, it's Federal law.
17
and I said, "And we have people bounce checks to
18
us all the time."
19
vehicle's booted or towed.
20
21
Now, I
And this guy had this idea and it

Okay.
I hired a lawyer to check
He gave us the statutes.
They can cut, zap a

Right.
I looked
We don't take checks if your
TYRON ALI:
Mm-hm.
Okay.
But I mean, the
135
(01:41:39)whole thing bounced checks all over the
world.
We looked at it, okay, not costing me anything.
They're charging the (inaudible) that bounce the
check.
And I said, "Let's see if it can work."
TYRON ALI:
VINCE FENNERTY:
it.
and screamed.
Mm-hm.
So, we told ACS to do
Well, man, they drug their feet, they kicked

They admit now that they never saw
10
anything like it.
When the bank routes a check to
11
(01:42:05)cyber collect, a copy to them to debit
12
the account.
13
before it goes in, they're notified, that money
14
comes right the fuck out.
Okay?
Make that, whoosh.
15
RON WATERS:
16
VINCE FENNERTY:
I mean,
Yeah.
Okay.
I've had people
17
call and say, "Geez, you're doing something and
18
we're not doing nothin'."
19
TYRON ALI:
20
VINCE FENNERTY:
21
(01:42:18)bounced.
Mm-hm.
Yeah.
My mortgage payment
Because they got to it
136
(01:42:21)before you did.
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:
VINCE FENNERTY:
Mm-hm.
Yeah.
Okay.
It would, I
can't get them over to Traffic Court to do it.
TYRON ALI:
These web-based applications
are changing the way municipalities, quasi-
governmental agencies are actually being able to
collect more and more money.
10
RON WATERS:
Well, he needs to probably sit
11
(01:42:37)down -- I don't know if they're
12
interested in it, but they should be based on what
13
Vince is saying, in Traffic Court, because I'm
14
sure they'll probably go the whole --
15
VINCE FENNERTY:
Well, I just told him, I
16
said, "They can't get past the fact that on a
17
traffic ticket there's the fine, there's the
18
surcharge for CAT.
19
livestop.
There's a surcharge for this, this,
20
and that.
Well, how does the whole ticket get
21
(01:42:56)paid, because we don't release the
There's a surcharge for
137
(01:42:58)license until the whole ticket's paid.
They, they have to get to the understanding, okay,
that, okay, if their fee is 20 percent -- I only
use that for an example -- and somebody owes a
thousand bucks.
are.
percent, the collected.
loaf is better than --
Everybody takes an equal cut of the 20
TYRON ALI:
10
11
Everybody takes whatever the fees
Eighty percent of the
-- than none.
VINCE FENNERTY:
-- none.
Right, right.
12
VINCE FENNERTY:
13
get past that over there.
14
RON WATERS:
15
VINCE FENNERTY:
Okay.
But they can't
Yeah.
And when you were in
16
the bathroom, I said, this, you can't do that in the
17
counties 'cause the counties have Constables.
18
RON WATERS:
19
VINCE FENNERTY:
20
RON WATERS:
21
(01:43:32)
Yeah, they do.

That's all --
We don't have Constables in Philly.
138
So, Traffic Court is sitting alone.
with their own Warrant Officers fifteen years ago, and
budget cuts.
now.
They did away
They run these guys from ROR around
RON WATERS:
VINCE FENNERTY:
There's no Constables.
Yeah.
Once in awhile, going
out and hitting the bigger ones.
RON WATERS:
10
TYRON ALI:
Right.
Mm-hm.
11
12
to do it.
13
that.
14
the Warrant Officers should be knocking on all the
15
doors for the one and the two and the three's, go
16
knocking on the doors the same as the cop.
17
can't do it here.
18
do another collection effort.
19
But that's not the way
You get a good newspaper story with
Okay?
But when these tickets age, okay,
It's too massive.
RON WATERS:
You
They have to
But as an elected official in
20
these tough economic times, I'm trying to figure
21
(01:44:12)out, this is my reasoning, how can we
139
(01:44:12)make sure people pay the debt owed to
the City?
VINCE FENNERTY:
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
VINCE FENNERTY:
Okay?
You going to get
somebody back over to talk to me?

TYRON ALI:
VINCE FENNERTY:
10
11
you.
Yeah. Yeah.
All right.
I'll get somebody to talk to
12
VINCE FENNERTY:
13
TYRON ALI:
14
VINCE FENNERTY:
Okay.
All right.
And we'll see what we
can do.
16
TYRON ALI:
17
RON WATERS:
18
TYRON ALI:
19
RON WATERS:
20
TYRON ALI:
21
That's what I'm doing.
Mm-hm.
15
Right.
(01:44:30)game.
I appreciate your time.

Yeah.
Okay.
Thank you so much.

Great.
I gotta go to the City.

He's ready to go to the
140
Yeah.
free tickets to the game.
VINCE FENNERTY:
Somebody gave me some
One day, he's up here.
He comes up, like, 5 o'clock one afternoon to
bullshit.
I know, he's calling me.
It's summertime.
off and he's gonna fish for (inaudible).
kidding you.
10
We're in here bullshitting.
Next thing
He's got his coat on.
He's got his jacket off and tie

I'm not
I go down and calm him down, okay.
RON WATERS:
I got a grand, too.
11
--[inaudible]--
12
He ain't gonna leave his car, out
13
standing in front of his car because it got late.
14
The stamp wasn't on it.
I signed it --
15
RON WATERS:
Yeah.
16
VINCE FENNERTY:
17
RON WATERS:
18
VINCE FENNERTY:
-- on the step.
Yeah.
Okay.
It's my cut.
19
That don't work for me, it's a private lot.
20
Right?
21
(01:45:07)clock him.
He's ready to punch and I was ready to
141
there, cool me down.
man. I'm surprised they don't have --
4
5
He's worse than me.
But this guy right here,
VINCE FENNERTY:
RON WATERS:
VINCE FENNERTY:
Yeah.
fightin' with somebody.
Two of us on the street
That's how it used to be,
huh?
11
RON WATERS:
12
TYRON ALI:
13
RON WATERS:
14
TYRON ALI:
15
I call him the next
day, it's like fuckin' twenty years ago.
10
He come up
That's how it was, man.

Wow.
That's how it was.
I appreciate your time.
I'm
sure I'll see you again.
16
RON WATERS:
He's a guy who really worked
17
his way up.
He didn't come in here with a silver
18
spoon.
19
(01:45:32)everything else, man.
He was out there bootin' cars and

That's right.
142
job.
RON WATERS:
It's important to know the
And I always gave him this kind
of credit, too.
'Cause I came here, Wilson Goode
was Mayor.
different administrations.
I watched this guy be here through different
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:
VINCE FENNERTY:
10
11
12
13
(01:45:50) RON WATERS:
And I saw the people change.
Sure, they do.

Two percent and all.
All's you had to do is work.
I said, Vince --
VINCE FENNDERTY:
And that's what a lot of these
people understood.
RON WATERS:
-- always found the
14
way, not just to survive but even advance.
15
democratic City, he found a way to advance. (01:45:45)
16
17
18
19
20
21
VINCE FENNERTY:
In a
You doing your own
lobbying or are you with somebody?

TYRON ALI:
We lobby for the Shale
project, Petrochem Chemical in Trinidad.

VINCE FENNERTY:
(01:46:07)your own company?
I mean, are you with
143
2
3
I own it.
VINCE FENNERTY:
So you're the,
you're the principal.
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:
I'm the guy.

So, you shouldn't have wore
that thing in here today?
VINCE FENNERTY:
Okay.
I'm gonna break his
balls, too, once I realize he was one of us.
TYRON ALI:
10
RON WATERS:
Okay?
I'll try.
Vince, I gotta run.
See ya.
11
I'm thinking to myself,
12
what's he bringing me a fuckin', 'cause I was cold
13
at the beginning, wasn't I?
14
TYRON ALI:
15
VINCE FENNERTY:
16
TYRON ALI:
17
VINCE FENNEERTY: -- What the fuck. What the fuck.
18
RON WATERS:
19
that on.
20
(01:46:33)
No, that's all right.

I'm thinking --
I didn't expect anything else.
I didnt even notice he had
I didnt even notice he had that on.

VINCE FENNERTY:
[Inaudible] He
144
(01:46:33)said he was going to bring these people
in and do collections.
the fuck is he bringing me a fucking lobbyist for?
What the fuck?
somebody that --
Right.
I'm thinking, What
He brings me a salesman, not
TYRON ALI:
We, our PAC is almost 3.5
million, our PAC.
for the past six months, I guess.
And so, we have been in-house
RON WATERS:
10
TYRON ALI:
Yeah.
You know, just moving
11
(01:46:52)through, moving through and making some
12
friends, relationships, and new partnerships.
13
RON WATERS:
You get my thing, you get my
14
thing on the scholarships?
15
that's a good thing you're doing with the swimming
16
pools.
That's good.
17
18
I see you guys --
VINCE FENNERTY:
I didn't get anything
from you.
19
RON WATERS:
I gotta make sure you get it,
20
'cause --
21
Now, stop it.
Okay?
145
(01:47:09)We go through this every year.
you wanna send me a check?"
didn't send me something.
RON WATERS:
VINCE FENNERTY:
mailing list."
write the check.
Okay.
"Vince,
It's no lie, and you
No.
This is -I said, "I'm not on the
He faxes it over to me.
I (inaudible).
RON WATERS:
He do.
VINCE FENNERTY:
He do.
-- office.
Okay?
10
the very next year, I still don't get the
11
(01:47:25)solicitation.
12
RON WATERS:
13
VINCE FENNERTY:
And
I'll find one.

Okay.
There's two
14
people in the world like this, okay, that I go
15
through this with; him and Brian O'Niell.
16
Ann Marie will call me --
17
RON WATERS:
18
VINCE FENNERTY:
Okay.
He's a bipartisan man.

Ann Marie will call me,
19
"Vince, we didn't hear from you for the fund
20
raiser."
21
(01:47:43) one on Thursday."
"What fund raiser, Ann Marie?"
Okay.
This is Monday.
"The
I said,
146
(01:47:43)"I'd be glad to be there, but nobody
invited me.
through this, Ann Marie?
mailing list."
All right?
where I live."
I said, "I'll be there, no
problem."
friggin' mad 'cause she must have friggin' wrote
it down and somebody didn't add me to the mailing
list.
How many years have we been going
Right?
Nobody put me on the

I said, "You know
Well, she must have been so
When I went home, okay, Vince Fennerty
10
hand-delivered by Ann Marie personally at my
11
(01:48:10)friggin' door.
12
give her the 150 anyway.
13
RON WATERS:
I was just gonna go and
(Inaudible) Next week a group
14
of community people are giving me, like, a
15
fundraiser.
16
17
18
It's not, it's for my birthday.
VINCE FENNERTY:
They sent me the
frickin' text twice.

RON WATERS:
And it's only ten dollars.
19
They go to a ten-dollar thing.
You come and eat,
20
have music, dance, everything.
So, I don't, this
21
(01:48:27)way, I see some of you people who work
147
(01:48:29)here could afford to come to that.
going to bring some flyers here.
VINCE FENNERTY:
I'm
I remember when -- what
were we in the 11? -- so, Taylor was elected in 84.
And I remember when we were raising money for him.
We all were young, okay, and we needed money for Election
Day to pay the bills.
a beef and beer on a Sunday afternoon at the AD Club
down at Port Richmond and we made 860 dollars
10
This is for Election Day.
profit and we thought we hit big time.
11
RON WATERS:
12
VINCE FENNERTY:
13
Yeah.
We won the election
with it.
14
RON WATERS:
Yeah, but, he's a good guy.
15
VINCE FENNERTY:
16
times have changed --
17
RON WATERS:
18
VINCE FENNERTY:
But I mean, that's how
Yes.
-- and you can just
19
look at that, and that was off a five-dollar beef
20
and beer.
21
You know, that's kind of
We ran
148
(01:49:09)funny.
folks and I told Sabatino last night, I said,
"Look, if you guys need our help, just let me
know.
do you guys have in mind?"
goes, "Wow.
and not winning." That's right.
RON WATERS:
14
And he goes, "What number

So I told him.
He
That's the difference between winning
TYRON ALI:
What is, What is the number?
No, the amount that we're
(01:49:32)willing to put towards --
12
13
We'll be there."
Is it a ballot number?
10
11
We were talking to Savage's
RON WATERS:
Oh.
(inaudible) money.
Okay.
Yeah.
VINCE FENNERTY:
Danny's a good guy.
15
I like that we're helping him out.
16
Maria hates him.
17
RON WATERS:
18
TYRON ALI:
That's why
Yeah.
And now, he's on the, on the
19
private organization of liquor stores and he's on
20
that, he's on that committee (inaudible).
21
(01:49:49)gonna get real interesting then.
It's
149
introduced a bill on that.
other day.
4
5
TYRON ALI:
He said nobody's even

I talked to him the
But it's coming.
It's
coming.
RON WATERS:
When I saw him at the table
with you the other day, I said, "What's up with that?"
He said, "No, it's not even (inaudible).
VINCE FENNERTY:
They wanted him to be
10
Caucus Secretary and he would, John said no.
11
said, "I'm not interested in being Caucus
12
Secretary and giving the Chairmanship up.
13
He said, "I have too much, I have too much
14
seniority."
15
TYRON ALI:
16
VINCE FENNERTY:
17
Liquor Control Committee.
18
be."
19
Secretary."
He
No."
Sure.
He said, "I have the
That's where I want to
He said, "I don't want to be Caucus
20
RON WATERS:
Maybe he's a whip or a leader.
21
VINCE FENNERTY:
Yeah.
Maybe something
150
like that.
RON WATERS:
Yeah, yeah.
TYRON ALI:
VINCE FENNERTY:
Some piece of leadership.

He said, "I don't want
to be in charge of fuckin' office spacing and, and
and, no."
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
Right.
That's more administrative
than, than, than anything else.
10
RON WATERS:
Well, he's already got a
11
(01:50:24)committee.
12
can have additional staff and all that kind of
13
stuff, which is where -- see, for me to go
14
leadership, it pays because after I finish my term
15
as Black Caucus Chair and then need to have
16
another person of color in, in leadership.
17
wanted to do that with me last time.
18
19
TYRON ALI:
They
How many years do you have,
ten?
20
21
So, as a committee, yeah, he
RON WATERS:
(01:50:43)
It'll be twelve years in June.
TYRON ALI:
Twelve, twelve years in
151
(01:50:43)June?
RON WATERS:
When I got sworn in.
Now they,
'cause they wanted me to run for leadership this
last election.
to do the white.
But I knew they was getting ready
TYRON ALI:
Mm-hm.
RON WATERS:
So like, wait a minute.
Y'all
ain't going to do this bait-and-switch thing, man,
'cause it look like y'all saying, "We'll get rid
10
of this Black guy.
We'll take this black girl."
11
(01:50:58)said, "I ain't goin' for that.
12
alone."
13
get somebody of color inside their leadership
14
team.
TYRON ALI:
16
RON WATERS:
18
Leave me
But they said, next year, they need to
15
17
Mm-hm.
So, for me, it might make sense
next term.
TYRON ALI:
Well, I mean, last night we
19
were up there for quite some time.
20
actually at McGrath's last night.
21
Oh, really?
We were
152
going on.
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
I mean, a bunch of things
Okay.
But the redistricting, the
reapportionment, that's really the key issues that
are kinda, sort of being moved around now.
RON WATERS:
Black Caucus, meeting next
week.
I'm bringing in somebody, Scott Casper, or
somebody else to talk about redistricting, and how
10
it's going to turn out.
11
Perfect.
12
RON WATERS:
13
TYRON ALI:
14
VINCE FENNERTY:
15
Yeah.
(Inaudible) work now, CIA.
there?
16
TYRON ALI:
17
RON WATERS:
18
VINCE FENNERTY:
19
20
21
How many people work
Three.
Vince, I gotta go.
And you wasted enough
time.
RON WATERS:
(01:51:40)it.
I'm gonna miss it.
I'm gonna miss
153
to come in.
RON WATERS:
VINCE FENNERTY:
here and talk.
in the bathroom --
I will.
TYRON ALI:
VINCE FENNERTY:
who you are."
I will.
Get somebody to come in
When we were talking when you were
Get, get, get somebody
Thank you.
I appreciate it.
I said, "I don't know
I said, you know, that, that was true.
10
was cold to him, you fucking bringing me a fucking
11
(01:51:52)lobbyist.
12
RON WATERS:
13
TYRON ALI:
14
right.
15
right.
16
I didn't know you didnt know -That's all right.
It's just full disclosure, Ron.
VINCE FENNERTY:
That's all
It's all
I'm thinking, "He's
17
bringing me a lobbyist.
18
somebody that knows what the fuck's going on and
19
he's fuckin' bringing a lobbyist."
20
21
RON WATERS:
(01:52:05)really does.
I want to talk to
This guy knows.
He knows.
And he's been a real good
He
154
(01:52:05)friend to me, because this guy knows the
pulse out there.
makes a very interesting conversation because Vince
knows where the bodies are buried.
where the bodies were buried and he knows what's
going on out there, so he's been real helpful
giving me [inaudible] --
Reminds me of you.
TYRON ALI:
VINCE FENNERTY:
10
TYRON ALI:
You know, so, it
This guy knows
We're think, we're think -All my friends are Democrat--
I'm a Republican, but here's
11
(01:52:34)the thing, my Mom's a Muslim, my Dad's
12
Hindu, my wife's Italian, I'm Catholic.
13
So, I wind up, you know, everywhere.
14
with the Pakistani Taxi Cab Collectors, the
15
drivers.
16
brought me in, sit down and talk to 'em.
17
Right?
You know,
They didn't go for anybody else.
RON WATERS:
They
He has a lot of people who are
18
Democrats who love this guy.
They had no problem
19
working with Vince.
20
things I couldn't figure out before when I was PEO
21
(01:53:01)Leader, Supervisor, but later on, it
And that's one of the
155
started becoming more clear to me about --
VINCE FENNERTY:
And see, the one thing,
the one thing I've never done is lie to anybody
about anything.
I won't lie.
TYRON ALI:
Yeah.
VINCE FENNERTY:
If I -Full disclosure.
If I don't, if I don't
like what somebody says, like, somebody says to
me, you know, like, I had somebody in here the
other day for interview for PO, last week.
10
lucked out, okay.
11
Leader, a decent Rep.
12
the size of him.
13
written all over him.
14
RON WATERS:
15
VINCE FENNERTY:
Okay.
[inaudible]-- was a decent Ward

I looked at him.
I looked at
That has Worker Compensation case
No.
This guy can't fucking
16
do the job.
I looked at him, he might be able to
17
do it in the winter, gonna fuckin' sweat himself.
18
He'll be out on an IOD in the summer, or else
19
he'll have a heart attack.
20
that.
21
He's not in shape for
But this guy --
156
I told him, I said,
"This is not," I said, "No."
take this guy."
interview, number one, and now I found out it's
even gonna be easier.
RON WATERS:
I said, "I can't
He couldn't get past the
No.
But Vince, that has been a
problem for years here.
that looked at the Parking Authority as a place to
go to --
10
There has been people
VINCE FENNERTY:
-- to dump people.
11
12
they would send their worse here, and I remember
13
because I had to supervise some of these duds that
14
were sent here.
15
So when they go out on the street, they can't even
16
read what the handbook, they couldn't even read the
17
name of the street [inaudible] -
18
19
-- to dump people.
Some people, they couldn't read.
VINCE FENNERTY:
now.
Or, yeah,
We give them a test
We got a test we checked --
20
RON WATERS:
This was years ago.
20
VINCE FENNERTY: But I tell them all, if somebody
21
(01:54:20) comes in there that's really bad, -[Inaudible]-
157
(01:54:25) "I told you, send me a fucking candidate.
Fucking put your trash out at your curb.
your mother fuckin' trash."
RON WATERS:
VINCE FENNERTY:
Don't send me
Thats right.
That's what I tell them.
"Don't
send me your trash."
RON WATERS:
someone that's gonna be here --
I would never want to send you
VINCE FENNERTY:
These people have to go
10
out and write tickets.
They have to represent the
11
public.
12
be able to read and write and they have to at
13
(01:54:47)least --
They have to be articulate.
14
RON WATERS:
15
VINCE FENNERTY:
They have to
Look decent in a uniform.

-- look decent.
I had a kid
16
come in here from Joe Dudas, okay.
17
was warm a couple weeks ago, wanted to be a
18
part-time security guard.
19
sandals and shorts and a muscle man shirt in
20
fuckin' mid-March.
Okay?
21
said, he walks in.
Lawrence, I don't know where I
22
was.
23
(01:55:10)what would come out of my mouth.
The girls would wink.
Come in here when it
He came in in fuckin'
In June he walks in.
Okay.
They had a bet

Okay.
158
(01:55)15)I looked at him.
the chair.
"Oh, yeah."
dressed like that.
"Are you here for a job interview?"

"Not with me.
TYRON ALI:
VINCE FENNERTY:
Okay.
fuck?"
No.
Get out of my office
Out."
I couldn't even sit in
I still don't understand.

"Get out.
Get out."
And you could have imagine, I said, What the

I said, "Can I send him back dressed in this?
I said, "He demonstrated he has no common sense
10
to come in for an interview."
11
(01:55:43)sense would he use writing a ticket?
12
RON WATERS:
Nah.
What kind of common
And once they, once they
13
get sworn in, whatever it is, the process is now,
14
now you got a problem on your hands because once
15
they be here long enough to be in District Council 34.
16
VINCE FENNERTY:
17
RON WATERS:
[inaudible] -- probation.
Yeah, now you got a problem because
18
now you got binding arbitration.
You got all
19
these damn steps you gotta take to give in to a
20
person that had no intention of coming here
21
(01:56:05)working in the first place.
They
159
(01:56:06wanted -- I know a girl got hired here when
she was pregnant -- I don't know how she passed
the urine test -- got hired here when she was
pregnant, had no desire to go out on the street.
5
6
VINCE FENNERTY:
How much
you think that weighs?
7
8
Hold that.
TYRON ALI:
I don't know, maybe less
than half a pound.
VINCE FENNERTY:
10
TYRON ALI:
This is about a pound.
Okay.
11
12
ticketing devices are a pound and a half.
13
had some slug claim he was (inaudible).
14
15
16
RON WATERS:
thing.
Okay.
Our hand-held
I just
Okay?
I never had the hand-held
I had the paper one.

VINCE FENNERTY:
A hand-held, a
17
hand-held ticketing device equals the weight of a
18
king loaf of Stroehmann bread plus a half a pound
19
of cheese or ham.
20
21
RON WATERS:
Mm-hm.
Okay.
That's what it
160
(01:56:44)equals.
the clinic and say he ruptured a disc in his back
carrying this.
4
5
I had some motherfucker go to
Okay.
RON WATERS:
What about the carpal tunnel
cases you have?
VINCE FENNERTY:
Some of them might be
legit, but we don't have them anymore because we
have the hand-held computers.
that.
They can't claim
So, he goes up to clinic and claims this.
10
He's giving them a hard time.
11
(01:57:05)forget he pulled an AWOL at five and a
12
half months is his probation.
13
RON WATERS:
14
VINCE FENNERTY:
15
them for another six.
16
RON WATERS:
17
Okay.
He seems to
Mm-hm.
Okay.
And I extended
What, he was still on
probation?
18
VINCE FENNERTY:
19
probation.
20
Okay.
21
(01:57:14) Okay.
He's still on
I'm waiting to get him back to work.
As soon as he goes, "Chooo.
Bye-bye.
If you're pulling that with me
161
(02:57:14)when you're on probation, what you are
going to do to me and this Agency when you're
full-time?
RON WATERS:
(Inaudible).
Sometimes I think
that was the worst thing.
I know Mayor Goode had
good intentions when he said that you could be in
the Union.
did it, but put them in the Union and give them a
binding arbitration?
I know he had good intentions when he
And I know how hard it was
10
for me as a supervisor to have to manage PEOs that
11
(01:57:44)come here from John Street's office when
12
he was (inaudible).
13
TYRON ALI:
14
RON WATERS:
15
16
17
Mm-hm.
From Anna Burr's (phonetic)
office or some [inaudible].

TYRON ALI:
Most of that stuff --
You should have seen years
ago what they gave us to work with.
18
RON WATERS:
Yeah.
19
VINCE FENNERTY:
It was unbelievable.
20
Those like him and I, and I always and I still do,
21
(01:58:08)I worked the later and I generally don't
162
(01:58:12)come in till 9:30.
o'clock and I'm here until 8 o'clock at night.
TYRON ALI:
VINCE FENNERTY:
Okay.
Maybe 10
Mm-hm.
Okay.
I've always
worked the later and he always worked later and
the shit we had to put up with.
saying (inaudible) a big fuck you.
RON WATERS:
VINCE FENNERTY:
Know what I'm
Yeah.
How's that.
And he'd
10
go, "Out."
And then, I'd have to go through the
11
(01:58:29)hearings.
12
me.
13
nobody's telling my supervisors, "Fuck you."
14
not happening.
15
or four of them this week, okay, got suspended
16
for stupid falsification of logs.
I'd have the politicians call
And I always held a firm line, even when I --
You know, I just don't get it.
17
RON WATERS:
18
VINCE FENNERTY:
It's
I got three
That's grounds for termination.

I got a tow truck driver in
19
the middle of the night, they're calling for livestops.
20
Okay.
21
(01:59:00) sitting in the lot under the fuckin' camera, and
Calling, and he aint answering up, okay. He's
163
(01:59:05) then falsifies his fuckin' logs.
I got a pole crew, okay.
it?
Market.
they did these jobs and all this and changed this
sign.
Joe Clark, and [inaudible]- called him down, and eatin'
hoagies at the [inaudible]- time at Second, at fuckin'
Second and Market.
Okay.
Bye.
Okay.
Where's the foreman on
They're supposed to be at 15th and
Okay.
All their forms are filled that
And Joe, whatever his name is, the boss,
He was going down for lunch.
10
you are guys doing here?
11
(01:59:32)here."
12
falsed up.
"What
You're not assigned
He pulls the log.
It's all
Bye.
13
RON WATERS: What's Randy doing now? -[inaudible]-
14
VINCE FENNERTY:
15
TYRON ALI:
16
RON WATERS: [Inaudible]-
17
VINCE FENNERTY:
18
RON WATERS:
Yeah, he's involved.
That's great.
in DROP.
--[Inaudible]--
I know.
But telling me, they
19
(01:59:56) said, -[inaudible]- pension [inaudible]-
20
DROP [inaudible]-
He said, "I don't
164
(02:59:56)know where that lie is coming from, but
--[inaudible]--
VINCE FENNERTY:
here after me is Dickson.
TYRON ALI:
That's the minimum, right?
eighty-eight thousand?
RON WATERS:
VINCE FENNERTY:
11
12
13
Two hundred and
For what?
Drop over.
Drop.
I think they said, I
(02:00:10) think DiCiccio.

RON WATERS:
He hasnt been there long.
Marion's figure's up to about 450.
14
TYRON ALI:
15
VINCE FENNERTY:
16
288?
I think that's what.
TYRON ALI:
He's gonna die here.
The minimum's what?
10
The only one that'll be
Four something, yeah.

-[Inaudible]- The lowest
out of them is Rizzo, 190.
17
RON WATERS:
Yeah.
18
VINCE FENNERTY:
Yeah.
But it's like DiCicco
19
spent his whole career in Traffic Court before he
20
went there.
21
Oh, he's there.
What you gonna
165
(02:00:02)do, -[Inaudible]- to David Oh?
VINCE FENNERTY:
RON WATERS: Okay.
VINCE FENNERTY:
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:
VINCE FENNERTY:
RON WATERS:
10
That's what I thought.

We endorsed him.
Yeah.
Yeah.
He's a good guy, though.
He's a good guy.
Yeah.
He's a good guy.
I like
him.
11
TYRON ALI:
I can't believe it's been
12
(02:00:31)all these years.
13
14
TYRON ALI:
15
RON WATERS:
16
TYRON ALI:
17
RON WATERS:
18
Yeah.
All right.
Thanks.
Take care, man.
Bye.
Did you park on the lot?

No.
Okay, I got mine covered.
I'm staying, Vince.
19
TYRON ALI:
[inaudible]-- I have a car that
20
drives -- no, no, no, no.
21
of that.
22
I have someone taking care
Thanks.
Everything all right with you
166
(02:00:54)here?
around.
Your Uncle Riley, he's always
Okay, Baby?
WOMAN:
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
I love you.
I love you back.
Thanks.
I think that might
actually work.
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:
What we gotta do here?

Give them ten.
He was a little nervous
10
about that --
11
12
it is.
13
find out after the fact, you know what I mean, it
14
looks like you're trying to hide something.
15
Thank you.
I know, but you know how
If you don't tell people and then they
16
RON WATERS:
17
TYRON ALI:
18
RON WATERS:
19
JIMMY:
20
RON WATERS:
21
Yeah.
(02:01:28)JIMMY:
(Inaudible.)
I know.
Jimmy, take care now, okay?
Good seeing you, brother.

All right.
Always a pleasure, man.
167
This guy was in my squad, in nine.
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:
Good seeing you, too, man.
Nice to meet you.

Remember when we were in south
Philly, and somebody I wrote a ticket on, and I
was walking your beat?
(Inaudible.)
UNKNOWN MALE:
RON WATERS:
Yeah.
That was one time, man, that I
was a little nervous about our safety, man.
10
(02:01:44)(All talking at once.)
11
UNKNOWN MALE:
12
RON WATERS:
14
UNKNOWN MALE:
in the mob.
We was in South Philly.

Yeah, Like, he was, like, a toady
He was into whooping like that.
16
RON WATERS:
17
UNKNOWN MALE:
18
Yeah, we werent scared but
[inaudible] --
13
15
He was [inaudible]-
No, no.
He was a, he was a mobster.
I learned awhile back,
don't write any tickets in South Philly.
19
RON WATERS:
20
right.
21
Still that rule count.
All
You take care.

I didn't know you wanted to
168
(02:02:07)go to the ball game, man.
gotten you more tickets.
3
4
RON WATERS:
No, I gotta go back. If you
can, 'cause my daughter --
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
I can't do it now, yeah.

Oh, you can't?
But I'll get you some
tickets, man.
RON WATERS:
(Inaudible) today and I found
10
out the game was at 1:05.
11
(02:02:26)mother --
12
13
14
I could have
TYRON ALI:
So, I'm like, her
Is that you in there
somewhere?
RON WATERS:
Her mother's already told her
15
that I'm taking her to the game.
So now, she's
16
all excited.
17
I had to run and follow this on news.
18
not until, I mean, the game is really at 4.
19
still in school, so, you can't go.
20
latest copy of his signed statement?
21
"Yeah, I'm going to the game."
Then
The game is
You
What is the
-[inaudible]-
This is an old one.
169
2
3
TYRON ALI:
This is (inaudible.)
Yeah.
That thing was so
nice, wasn't it, for Sam?
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:
PHYLLIS:
RON WATERS:
PHYLLIS:
10
Oh, yeah, it was.

It was beautiful.
It was.
Aren't you a former employee?

Absolutely.
Do you remember me?
RON WATERS:
I was Supervisor 33.
11
(02:03:08)PHYLLIS:
No, don't give me your
12
supervisor number.
I never was in ticketing.
13
Come on, now.
14
RON WATERS:
15
PHYLLIS:
16
once.)
17
18
(Laughter.) Im Ron Waters.
I knew it was you -- (All talking at
I just wasn't sure.

RON WATERS:
Isn't it?
Yeah.
Yeah.
meeting to talk about something.
19
PHYLLIS:
Just come to a
How you doing?
I was hoping you didn't forget
20
us.
21
Oh, no.
Can't forget this.
170
(02:03:32)PHYLLIS:
I mean, Christ's sake.
RON WATERS:
PHYLLIS:
RON WATERS:
PHYLLIS:
He is the Parking
Truth.
He is Mr. Parking
Authority.
8
9
You can't forget him.
Authority.
6
7
Yeah.
RON WATERS:
He's Mr. PPA, no doubt about
it.
10
PHYLLIS:
Shit, when I get out of here
11
(02:03:41) in fourteen, I'm gonna be Mrs. Parking
12
Authority.
13
TYRON ALI:
14
RON WATERS:
15
TYRON ALI:
16
RON WATERS:
17
PHYLLIS:
18
Where are you parked?
All right, love, brother.

All right.
I'm gonna be Mrs. Parking
Authority.
19
RON WATERS:
20
PHYLLIS:
21
Yeah, right over here.
What's your name again?
Phyllis.
Phyllis.
Okay.
171
up with Vince?
What do you think is the best way?
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
so bad.
to get it done.
How do we, how do we follow
Well, this is -They want this fuckin' thing
I mean, I'll pull out 10,000 dollars just
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
Do it.
If they're willing to do it.
10
11
you would take cards with you, man.
12
TYRON ALI:
Just do the follow-up.
You know me, Ron.
13
light, but look, today's Friday, right?
14
you Monday.
15
RON WATERS:
16
go out and have a drink or two.
17
18
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:
20
TYRON ALI:
21
I travel
I'll call
The next time we can probably
That'd be great.
to take him out.
19
I wish
Do that that way.

I understand.
(Inaudible.)
I'd love
172
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
All right, brother.

All right.
All right.
You give me a call.

I just, I just,
hey, look, Stack called me the other day,
actually, not Stack, Dewees.
is that?"
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
Lou was like, "What
Yeah.
You know how it is.
You
always try to let people know up front so that
10
there's no issue, you know?
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get outta here.
13
TYRON ALI:
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RON WATERS:
15
TYRON ALI:
16
RON WATERS:
I don't know how we're gonna
Where are you?

Right here.
Oh, okay.
Yeah.
Yeah.
We gotta move
17
some of these cars around so we can get outta
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here.
19
[inaudible]TYRON ALI:
Give me your stub, man.
20
I'll take care of it for you.
21
No, it's already, it's taken
173
1
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(02:04:57)care of.
TYRON ALI:
How you doing?
They stamped it already for you?
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
How are you?
Yeah, they stamped it.

Okay.
Look, man, we'll hook
up on Monday, all right?
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
Okay.
Talk to Vince over the weekend.
need to get this shit done.
10
going on, Ron.
11
RON WATERS:
12
TYRON ALI:
13
14
s'posed to get out?
There's a lot, there's a lot
He's my friend.
I know, but look -How you doin'?
How am I
Do I go out the same way?
15
PARKING ATTENDANT:
16
RON WATERS:
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PARKING ATTENDANT: Yeah, follow the same.
18
TYRON ALI:
19
have dinner Monday.
20
We
Yeah, where you at?
I'm right here, the white one.
I'll call you Monday.

Well talk.
All right.
We'll
174
I'll let you know what's
going on with that reapportionment.
later.
RON WATERS:
(Traffic noise.)
TYRON ALI:
back-up.
hey.
Katie.
All right.
All right.
A bit of
(Background conversation.)
Thanks.
See you
(Phone ringing.)
Actually --
Hello?
Yes.
Hi,
Oh, my goodness, I completely -- oh,
10
you're from Progressive, okay.
11
(02:08:53)can I call you back in about 30 minutes,
12
please?
13
Okay.
14
(02:09:32)Thanks.
15
(02:10:15)Hey, I'm right across the street from
16
the Wok.
17
Okay.
18
street from where you dropped me off.
19
corner of 31st and Market on the right-hand side.
20
Okay, thank you.
21
(02:10:39)(Traffic noise.)
Is that possible?
I will.
Thank you.
Yes.
Okay.
Katy,
Yes, it did, it did.

Bye bye.
Oh.
Thanks.
(Traffic noise.)
All right.
Um, yeah, yeah.
Okay.
I thought as much.
I'm directly across the

I'm at the
175
(02:11:35)CLAUDE THOMAS:
deactivated.
the 1st, year 2011, current time is 13:10 hundred
hours.
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Tape is now being
Again, on this day, Friday, April
(End of recording.)
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____________________________
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Linda M. Shaw, Notary Public
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!
!
T#79!April!8,!2011!
Claude! Thomas:! Senior! Supervisory! Special! Agent,! ! Pennsylvania! Office! of! Attorney! General,! ! Badge!
number! is! 118,! ! A! Certification! number! A1418.! ! Todays! date! is! Friday,! March! 8th,! year! 2011.! ! Current!
time! is! 14:24! hundred! hours.! ! This! recording! device! is! being! placed! on! CI! 2010#01! in! reference! to!
Investigation!number!36#622.!!CI!will!be!proceeding!to!a!location!within!the!confines!of!Darby!Borough,!
Delaware!County,!to!record!communications!with!an!individual,!first!name?!!
Tyron!Ali:!!Leslie.!!
Claude!Thomas:!Leslie!McGirth.!This!recording!device!will!remain!on!and!active!until!I!deactivate!it!at!a!
later!time.!
[Pause]((
[08:17](
Tyron!Ali:!!Hi.!
Terry:!Good!afternoon,!how!are!you?!!
Tyron!Ali:!!Good,!good!is,!ah,!Leslie!here?!!
Terry:!!Yeah,!Leslie.!
Leslie!McGirth:!!Mister!Ali,!hi.!
Tyron!Ali:!!Hi,!Leslie!how!are!you!dear?!!
Leslie!McGirth:!!Good.!!
Tyron!Ali:!!Good.!!
Leslie!McGirth:!!Its!good!to!see!you.!!
Tyron!Ali:!!Nice!place!you!have!here.!
Leslie!McGirth:!!Oh!thank!you,!thank!you.!!
Tyron!Ali:!!Nice!place.!!
Leslie!McGirth:!!This!is!Ms.!Deevis!(sp)!this!is!one!of!the!young!ladies,!we!closed!down!today!for!State!
Rep!!!
Tyron!Ali:!!Oh,!hi.!!
Leslie!McGirth!Waters!to!finish!up!everything.!This!is!my!husband!Mr.!McGirth.!!
Tyron!Ali:!!Hi,!how!are!you!doing?!!
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T#79!April!8,!2011!
Leslie!McGirth:!!All!right!so!Im!going!in!my!office.!Ill!show!you!the!form!of!the!stuff!thats!going!on!the!
tables.!!
Tyron!Ali:!!That!looks!really!nice.!!
Leslie!McGirth:!!Yeah!
Tyron!Ali:!!That!looks!really!nice.!!
Leslie!McGirth:!!We!are!staying!nice!and!busy!for!Ron.!!
Tyron!Ali:!!Yeah.!!
Leslie!McGirth:!!Mmm#hmm.!!
Tyron!Ali:!!Hes!a!good!guy.!Rons!a!good!guy.!!
Leslie!McGirth:!!He!deserves!it.!What!shes!doing!here,!were!doing!a!money!tree!branch.!And!were!
going!to!do!a!tree!stump!and!then!when!people!come!they!get!add!their!branch.!And!they!put!their!
name!on!it!and!then!they!tape!their!dollar!to!it.!And!then!they!do!another!branch,!like!how!you!do!the!
family!tree.!
Tyron!Ali:!!Mmm#hmm!
Leslie!McGirth:!!Yeah.!And!I!thought!that!he!would!get!a!kick!out!of!that!and!well!take!it!down!at!the!
end!of!the!night!and!roll!it!up!and!he!gets!to!go!home!and!look!at!it!and!just!get!a!kick!out!of!everybody!
that!signed!his!tree.!!
Tyron!Ali:!!This!is!a!nice!building.!!
Leslie!McGirth:!!Thank!you.!Thank!you.!Thank!you.!We!are,!(inaudible)!you,!you!gonna!have!to!say!it.!!
Tyron!Ali:!!Thank!you.!!
Leslie!McGirth:!!I!am!actually,!just!been!re##,!ahm.!
(9:59)(
Tyron!Ali:!!Heres!the!four!hundred!I!promised!you.!!
Leslie!McGirth:!!Oh,!thank!you,!thank!you.!!
Tyron!Ali:!!Youre!welcome.!!
Leslie!McGirth:!!I!am!going!to,!I!did!a,!Ron!will!tell!you,!when!anything!comes!in!my!hand!Im!just,!Im!
thorough!with!it.!
Tyron!Ali:!!Good!
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T#79!April!8,!2011!
Leslie!McGirth:!!So,!Im!gonna!just!show!you!with!the!donation,!Im!printing!it!off!now!#!#!
Tyron!Ali:!!Oh!sure.!
Leslie!McGirth:!#!#!and!I!just!want!to!go!over!what!youre!giving!to,!ahm,!Ron!tomorrow.!!
Tyron!Ali:!!Okay.!!
Leslie!McGirth:!!So!I!just!want!you!to,!Im!going!to!sign!it,!but!I!just!want!you!to!put!a!little!initial!on!
there,!to!note!that!I,!that!this!came!to!my!hand!today.!!
Tyron!Ali:!!What!else!do!you!do!in!here!besides!the!Fresh!Start!program?!
Leslie!McGirth:!!Well,!ah!#!#!
Secretary:!Excuse!me,!Michael!Jacksons!on!the!phone.!!
Leslie!McGirth:!!Okay.!Marty!Jackson,!why!do!I!know!that!name?!!
Secretary:!Louis!(inaudible).!
Leslie!McGirth:!!Oh.!Okay,!all!right.!Excuse!me!one!second.!!
Tyron!Ali:!!Sure.!
Leslie!McGirth:!!(on!the!phone)!Hello?!!Yes.!Yes.!Okay.!Okay.!Very!good,!very!good.!So!we!got!Michael!
Jackson?!Very!good.!Yes,!Janice!is!going!to!be!there!also.!Alright,!well!very!good!and!thank!you!for!being!
there!early!because!we!want!him!to!be!there!before!State!Rep!Waters!gets!here.!Okay.!!Okay.!!Now!is!
that!that!Michael!Jackson!that!will!be!there!quarter!of?!Okay,!alright,!but!we!dont!want!him!there!any!
later!than!quarter!of!because!the!escort!is!bringing!in!the!State!Rep!at!eight!oclock.!Okay,!okay,!alright.!
Very!good,!and!just!bring!me!a!receipt!so!I!can!sign!off!on!that!before!I!pay!him.!Okay,!alright,!thank!you.!
Alright,!bye#bye.!Okay,!thats!what!youre!doing.!We!are,!umm,!you!are!doing!the!red!carpet.!And!I!just,!
you!can!just!initial!this.!!Thats!what!I!took!from!you.!!
Tyron!Ali:!!Sure.!!
Leslie!McGirth:!!Okay.!!Umm,!we!have!the!red!carpet!and!thats!going!to!be!outside.!And!we!have!the!
Green!Grove!(sp)!who!are!going!to!be!there.!We!agreed!on!#!#!
Tyron!Ali:!!You!need!a!copy!of!this!right?!!
Leslie!McGirth:!!Yes.!Michael!Jackson,!and!we!just!negotiated!the!price!with!him!because!he!wanted!
over!two!hundred!some!dollars!for!a!hundred!and!twenty.!The!red!carpet!is!a!hundred!and!fifty.!And!the!
photographer!is!going!to!come!out.!So!thats!the!main!attraction!all!the!stuff!that!youre!giving!us!for!the!
party.!Thats!going!to!make!outside!nice!#!#!
Tyron!Ali:!!Anyway!that!we!can!help.!Look,!I!have!known!Ron!for!the!majority!of!my!professional!career!
so,!anything!we!can!do!to!help!him!out!is!fine.!!
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3!
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T#79!April!8,!2011!
Leslie!McGirth:!!He!is!going!to!be!in!awe.!He!is!really!going!to!be!in!awe.!!
Tyron!Ali:!!Hes!a!good!guy.!!
Leslie!McGirth:!!He!is.!!
Tyron!Ali:!!Hes!a!good!guy!and!one!of!the!things!that,!in!his!new!position,!there!is!a!lot!of!new!
opportunities.!!
Leslie!McGirth:!!Okay.!
Tyron!Ali:!!But!there!is!also!a!lot!of!new!challenges.!!
Leslie!McGirth:!Okay.!
Tyron!Ali:!!So,!in!order!to!help!bridge!that!gap,!you!know,!weve!pledged!our!support!to!him.!!
Leslie!McGirth:!!Mmm!hmm,!okay.!!
Tyron!Ali:!!You!know?!!
Leslie!McGirth:!!Okay.!!
Tyron!Ali:!!But,!Im!sure!tomorrow!will!go!off!without!a!hitch.!!
(14:04)(
Leslie!McGirth:!!Its!going!to!be!fabulous.!When!he!gets!into!Darby,!there!I!always!set!up!an!escort.!So!
theyre!going!to!meet!him,!the!minute!his!vehicle!hits!Darby!theyre!going!to!stop!him,!and!then!theyre!
going!to!escort!him!in!with!flashing!lights!like!hes!somebody!special!which!he!is.!And!then!theyre!going!
to!bring!him!down!and!the!street!will!be!blocked!off,!and!we!have!security!thats!going!to!be!outside,!we!
have!six!men!who!are!going!to!be!outside.!Where!its!going!to!direct!traffic!because!it!gets!dark!back!
here.!!
Tyron!Ali:!!Mmm#hmm.!
Leslie!McGirth:!!And!theyll!be!out!here!in!their!black!suits!and!they!have!yellow!vests!and!stop!signs!and!
the!flash!lights!and!where!theyre!going!to!be!bringing!people!out!of!their!cars!safely.!!Theyre!going!to!
be!parking!them!safely!and!bringing!them!into!the!facility.!And!they!will!move!his!cones!from!where!hes!
going!to!park!at!and!have!him!escorted!in.!And!then!when!he!gets!to!the!front!entrance!of!!Kia!Graves!
(sp)()()(
Secretary:!Excuse!me!(inaudible).!!
Leslie!McGirth:!!Yes.!
Secretary:!Can!I!ask!for!my!(inaudible).!!
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T#79!April!8,!2011!
Leslie!McGirth:!!You!know!what,!I!gotta!see!if!I!have!it!in!the!drawer,!peek!in!here!#!#!!
Secretary:!!Okay.!!
Leslie!McGirth:!!#!#!peek!in!here!for!me.!!Thats!when!the,!hes!going!to!be!met!on!the!red!carpet!with!
Michael!Jackson,!the!Dream!Girls,!I!dont!know!how!many!of!the!Sister!Sledges!are!going!to!come.!I!
talked!to!Cathy.!Theyre!taping!now!for!the!Oprah!Winfrey!show.!So!theyre!going!to!come!out,!the!
Sisters.!So!hell!be!greeted!by!them!and!the!Mayor.!!And!its,!I!just!think!hes!just!going!to!be!in!awe!that!
we!all!took!the!extra!effort!to!do!the!different!things!that!were!doing!for!him.!!
Tyron!Ali:!!He!deserves!it.!!
Leslie!McGirth:!!He!does.!He!does.!I!know!that!its!not!tape!in!there,!so!Ill!see!if!its!another!roll,!box.!I!
hope!were!not!all!out.!But!peek!down!the!bottom!too.!!
Secretary:!!Okay.!
Tyron!Ali:!!How!long!have!you!guys!been!in!existence?!!
Leslie!McGirth:!!The!Fresh!Start!program?!!
Tyron!Ali:!!Mmm#hmm.!!
Leslie!McGirth:!!Now,!seven!years.!!
Tyron!Ali:!!Seven!years.!!
Leslie!McGirth:!!Thanks!to!Ron.!!Mmm!hmm.!!Yes.!
Tyron!Ali:!!Him!and!I,!we!were!talking!last!week!because!weve!got!a!number!of!different!projects!that!
are,!that!were!looking!at.!You!know,!because!people!send!us!stuff!all!the!time.!But,!he!did!talk!to!me!
about!you.!!
Tyron!Ali:!!So!at!some!point,!Im!in!Harrisburg!most!of!the!week.!But!maybe!next!week,!the!end!of!next!
week!we!should!share!some!time!and!tell!me!exactly!what!you!are!trying!to!accomplish.!!
Leslie!McGirth:!!Sure,!absolutely!#!#!!
Tyron!Ali:!!For!the!next!fiscal!year.!!
(16:36)(
Tyron!Ali:!!Because!you!know,!a!lot!of!the!grants!have!sort!of!been!closed!out.!!
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T#79!April!8,!2011!
Leslie!McGirth:!!I!know,!it,!it,!it!is!hard,!it,!it,!it!is!rough.!Ron!knows!I!havent!been!paid!for!six!months!but!
it!doesnt!stop!me.!Ive!cashed!in!my!retirement!money!to!give!to!the!kids!because!you!cant!start!
something!with!them,!they!depend!on!you.!!
Tyron!Ali:!!Mmm#hmm.!
Leslie!McGirth:!!You!just!vanish,!because!of!that!income.!!
Tyron!Ali:!!Have!you!talked!to!Tony?!!
Leslie!McGirth:!!Oh,!absolutely.!They!support!as!much!as!they!can.!!You!know,!they!do!their!support,!and!
Ive!been!covered!by!every!news!station!and!even!Byron!Scott!now!comes!faithfully,!um,!every!
Thursday.!You!know!what,!go!back!over!to!Dobsons!and!just!tell!him!to!give!us!a!roll!of,!um,!take!that!
over!to!(inaudible)!#!#!!
Secretary:!(inaudible)?!!
Leslie!McGirth:!!Yeah.!!
Secretary:!Okay.!!
Leslie!McGirth:!!And!just!tell!them!that!we!need!some!tape.!!
Secretary:!Okay.!!
Leslie!McGirth:!!Alright?!Alright.!And!hell!give!it!to!you.!And!well!take!care!of!it.!!
Tyron!Ali:!!Yeah,!its!a!difficutheres,!theres!so!many!challenges.!Particularly!now,!out!of!the!
Department!of!Community!and!Economic!Development.!!
Leslie!McGirth:!!Right.!!
Tyron!Ali:!!Youve!got!some!true!fiscal!challenges!because!what!youve!seen!happen!is!the!number!of!
programs!they!were!reduced!from!a!hundred!and!twenty#seven!to!fifty#six.!!
Leslie!McGirth:!!Right.!
Tyron!Ali:!!Typically!how!do!you!fund!your!programs!here?!!
Leslie!McGirth:!!Well,!Im!very!good!when!it!comes!to!a!budget.!!
Leslie!McGirth:!!Um,!but!the!funding!that!Ron!gives!and!the!funding!that!the!Senator!gives,!um,!Verizon!
gives!ten!thousand,!and!Ron!knows!that!here!I!wont!let!anybody!get!rich!off!of!it.!!You!understand?!!So!
everything!thats!given!goes!back.!!
Tyron!Ali:!!Mmm#hmm!
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T#79!April!8,!2011!
Leslie!McGirth:!!We!make!sure!that!that!funding!that!comes!in!here!that!is!actually!going!to!whatever!it!
costs!to!operate!this!program!to!give!back!and!here!to!the!kids.!By!me!giving!up!my!job,!do!I!need!a!
salary?!Yeah,!so,!but!its!a!very!minimum!salary.!!I!take!twenty!dollars!an!hour,!um,!to!do!it.!!My!goals!
and!priorities!at!home!is:!as!long!as!my!kids!are!healthy!and!safe!and!theyre!educated!and!different!
things!like!that!I!dont!look!for!anything.!!Being!I!pay!my!bills!and!things!like!that,(is!it!logical!to!most!
people?!!Umm!umm,!absolutely!not.!But!my!heart,!my!heart,!is!um,!is!in!this!for!the,!for!the!kids.!So,!
again!I!just!make!sure!that!everything!is!operable,!the!cell!phone,!the!business!line!here,!the!internet.!
The!Borough!doesnt!charge!me!a!dime!to!house!this!building.!!They!pay!for!taxes,!everything,!they!pay!
for!electric,!they!pay!for!heating,!the!electricity.!You!know!I!go!after!every!program!there!is!for,!for!food!
and!different!things!like!that.!We!cry!out!when!its!time!for!supplies,!like!now!when!were!at!our!down#
time!where!theres!no!grant!money,!um!the!fire!department!to!the!average!person!like!you,!they!gave!
five!hundred!dollars.!To!you!it!would!be!like!thats!giving!me!a!penny,!to!us!it!was!like!Christmas.!You!
know,!where!you!used!that!hey!man!we!can!get!ink,!and!we!can!pay!for!the,!um,!the!cell!phone,!we!can!
pay!for!the!office!phone,!until!that!grant!comes!in.!So!I!do!everything!to!make!sure!that,!um,!bills!and!
things!are!paid.!!
Tyron!Ali:!!Which!grant!are!you!waiting!on!now?!!
Leslie!McGirth:!!We!are!waiting!on!the!grant!thats!for,!um,!and!thats!from!the!senator,!and!its!twenty#
thousand,!and!again!to!the!average!person!thats!nothing.!Its!the!Commonwealth!of!Pennsylvania!
Department!of!Community!Economic!Development!grant.!!
Tyron!Ali:!!When!did!you!apply?!!
Leslie!McGirth:!!That,!this!should!be!in!by!April!the!20th.!!
Tyron!Ali:!!Oh,!you!havent!applied!for!it!yet?!!
Leslie!McGirth:!!No,!no,!no,!no.!!It!should!be!in!the!banking!account!by!April!the!20th.!!
Tyron!Ali:!!Okay,!so!they!already!sent!you!the!letter.!!
Leslie!McGirth:!!Oh!yeah,!oh!yeah!#!#!
Tyron!Ali:!!Good.!!
Leslie!McGirth:!!#!#!we,!we!have!everything.!!
Tyron!Ali:!!Good.!!
Leslie!McGirth:!!For!that,!yeah.!And!then!that!pays,!most!of!that!is!already!spent!#!#!!
Tyron!Ali:!!Thats!good.!!
Leslie!McGirth:!!Because!it!will!go!towards!the!back!bills,!and,!and!things!like!that.!And!then!we!have!a!
summer!camp,!we!do!a!summer!camp!for!(inaudible)!girls.!Well,!its!fun!to!(inaudible)!the!children,!the!
children!come!in.!!
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T#79!April!8,!2011!
Tyron!Ali:!!This!is!such!a!small!amount!though.!!
Leslie!McGirth:!!Absolutely.!Absolutely.!!
Tyron!Ali:!!Youd!almost!need!something!to!partner!that!with!to!sort!of!make!it!make!sense.!!
Leslie!McGirth:!!Mmm!hmm,!yeah,!absolutely.!!
Tyron!Ali:!!Your!operating!budget!here,!for!your!fiscal!years,!how!much!would!you!say!normally?!!
Leslie!McGirth:!!Umm,!probably!about!a!hundred!and!some!thousand.!!
Tyron!Ali:!!Per!year?!!
Leslie!McGirth:!!Mmm!hmm.!!
Tyron!Ali:!!Okay.!!
Leslie!McGirth:!!Thats!what!we,!what!we!really!need,!and!whats!spent!out,!mmm#hmm.!!
Tyron!Ali:!!Well,!youve!done!a!good!job,!I!mean!youve!kept!it!running!for!seven!years,!right?!
Leslie!McGirth:!!Yeah.!
Tyron!Ali:!!Theres!something!to!be!said!for!longevity.!!
Leslie!McGirth:!!Unh!huh,!and!most!people!close!down.!!
Tyron!Ali:!!Most!people!dont!make!it,!they!dont!make!it!past!year!two.!!!
Leslie!McGirth:!!Mmm!hmm,!and!thats!why!the!press!they,!they!constantly!come!out!to!support!it.!
Constantly.!Because!theyre!in!disbelief!and!they!see!a!program!that,!that!is!really!run!and!its!not!a!
program!where!you!see!people!that!have!five!people!in!a!program!and!they!say,!Well!come!on!if!we!can!
get!five!more!so!that!we!can!keep!the!funding.!!We!have!hundreds!of!kids!that,!that!come!out.!!
Tyron!Ali:!!How!do!you!staff!the!outfit?!!
Leslie!McGirth:!!Welfare!to!Work.!!
Tyron!Ali:!!Okay.!!
Leslie!McGirth:!!Volunteers,!different!programs!that!allow!us!to!bring!people!in.!Seniors,!umm!that,!that!
come!out!#!#!!
Tyron!Ali:!!So!if!you!can!get!twenty!from!him!and!ten!from!Verizon,!thats!really!only!thirty#thousand!
dollars.!!So,!you!got!like!a!seventy!#!#!
Leslie!McGirth:!!And!it!goes!like!this.!!
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T#79!April!8,!2011!
Tyron!Ali:!!Sure.!!
Tyron!Ali:!!If!you!could!get!the!entire!amount!that!youre!looking!for,!where!do!you!think!you!might!be!
able!to!pull!that!seventy!thousand!from?!
Leslie!McGirth:!!Umm,!as!far!as!a,!the!grant#giver,!the!person!that!would!give!a!grant!out,!we!always!try!
to!see!how!much!more!we!can!get!from!Ron!and!the!Senator.!You!know!we!pretty!much!try!to!cry!out!
and!say,!one!year!the!Senator!gave!us!fifty.!To!continue!to!give!fifty,!we!really!need!it,!we!help!a!lot!your!
children.!And!we!dont!turn!anybody!away,!just!because!were!in!Delaware!County!we!dont!turn!away!
somebody!from!Philadelphia.!Our!program!is!for!the!communities.!!
!Tyron!Ali:!!Mmm#hmm!
Leslie!McGirth:!!Fresh!Start!teens!making!a!difference!in!our!communities.!You!know!so!we!dont!turn!
anybody!away!from!it.!!I!know!Philadelphia!gets!so!much!more.!They!have!a!program!thats!kind!of!not!
similar!to!mines!cause!I!gear!to!problem!teenagers.!But!there!is!a!program!thats!coming!to!69th!Street!
in!Upper!Darby.!This!mans!got!millions!of!dollars,!and!its!not!even!a!program!thats!operable!at!this!
point!and!you!wonder!#!#!
Tyron!Ali:!!Whats!the!name!of!the!program?!!
Leslie!McGirth:!!!Terry.!!
Terry:!Yes?!!
Leslie!McGirth:!!Whats!the!name!of!the!program!that!youre!getting!ready!to!help!with?!!
(24:02)(
Terry:!Leadership!Network!of!Philadelphia.!!
Leslie!McGirth:!!And!I!think!umm!who!helped!them!with!that!grant?!Bishop?!Louise!Williams?!!
Terry:!Uhh!
Leslie!McGirth:!!Or!was!it,!it!wasnt!Jannie?!!
Terry:!No,!it!was!Louise!Bishop!and!someone!else.!I!cant!think!of!her!first!name.!Some!!last!name!
Kitchens?(!
Tyron!Ali:!!That!would!be!Shirley.!!
Terry:!Shirley!Kitchens.!!
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T#79!April!8,!2011!
Leslie!McGirth:!!But!thats!for!Philadelphia.!!
Terry:!Yeah,!thats!for!Philadelphia.!!
Tyron!Ali:!!Who,!who!is!the,!ah,!the!principal!behind!that!program.!!
Terry:!Leadership!Network?!!
Tyron!Ali:!!!Yes.!!
Terry:!Umm,!Chester!Beckett.!!The!corporate!office!is!in!Upper!Darby,!he!just!moved!the!corporate!
office.!It!originated!in!Philadelphia!in!Cobbs!Creek!Parkway.!!Then!he!moved!to!Upper!Darby!which!
covers!Delaware!County.!His!main!support!is!coming!from!the!Department!of!Public!Welfare.!!But,!
Shirley!Kitchen!and!she!gave!him!a,!what!is!it,!a!citation!of!recognition!or!something,!if!thats!what!you!
call!it.!!
Tyron!Ali:!!Right.!!
Terry:!And!then!he!also!has!the!support!of!Louise!Williams!because!theyre!getting!ready!to!build,!if!
youre!familiar!with!the!Overbrook!section?!!
Tyron!Ali:!!Sure.!!
Terry:!!59th!and!Lancaster.!
Tyron!Ali:!!Mmm!hmm,!Im!familiar!with!it.!!
Terry:!Right!across!the!street!from!Ruskin!playground?!
Tyron!Ali:!!Im!familiar!with!the!spot.!!
Terry:!Thats!where!theyre!building!that!little!mini#mall.!!
Tyron!Ali:!!Yes!it!is.!!
Terry:!Next!to!!well!thats!where!its!going!to!be!at.!One!of!his!locations.!And!thats!going!to!be,!ah!#!#!
Tyron!Ali:!!But!why!didnt!they!look!at!your!program!as!opposed!to!recreating!a!new!program?!Why!was!
that?!!
Terry:!Some!people!just!dont!look!at!not!reinventing!the!wheel.!!
Leslie!McGirth:!!And,!and!were!not!
Tyron!Ali:!!Forgive!my!back,!Im!sorry.!!
Terry:!No,!no,!no!go!ahead.!!
Leslie!McGirth:!!And!were!not!housed!in!Philadelphia.!!
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T#79!April!8,!2011!
Terry:!And!the!kids,!the!kids,!the!kids!is!already!in!the!program,!you!know!what!Im!saying?!!
Tyron!Ali:!!Mmm!hmm.!!
Terry:!!So,!I!spoke!to!him!a!couple!of!times!and!asked!him!about!this,!that!and!the!other,!but!you!know,!
one!of!the!things!is,!you!know,!thats!Philadelphia,!this!is!Delaware!County.!You!know!
Tyron!Ali:!!Thats!unfortunate.!!
Terry:!!We!have##!
Leslie!McGirth:!!They!have!##!
Terry:!!Ron!Waters,!Ron!Waters!is!Philadelphia.!!
Tyron!Ali:!!But!he!also!covers!part!of!Delaware.!!
Terry:!Yeah,!but!hes!not!in!Darby,!but!he!loves!doing!what!he!does.!Thats!the!difference.!!
Tyron!Ali:!!Rons!a!good!guy.!!!
Terry:!Thats!the!difference.!!
Tyron!Ali:!!Rons!a!good!guy.!
Terry:!!Thats!the!difference.!!
Leslie!McGirth:!!We!had!a!program!here!in!Delaware!County.!It!was,!Terry!what!was!that?!Community!
Terry:!Community!##!
Leslie!McGirth:!!No,!no,!no,!not!community!!youre!thinking!about!Community!of!Friends!!the!one!that!
was!off!of!Lansdowne!Avenue?!!
Terry:!Friends!Helping!Community!Friends?!Something?!
Leslie!McGirth:!!No.!!
Terry:!Community!Net!!!no.!
Leslie!McGirth:!!It!went,!it!funneled!through!William!Penns!School!District.!!
Terry:!It!was!a!SOAR!(sp)!grant!they!got.!!
Leslie!McGirth:!!And!it!was!a!pro!!it!was!a!grant!that!they!were!supposed!to!actually!help!with,!with,!
with!the!!They!were!supposed!to!partner!with!different!programs.!The!fire!department!programs!such!
as!mine.!And!my!program!is!in!William!Penns!School!District,!and!I!met!with!the!Director,!they!got!
millions!of!dollars,!they!got!five#point#some!million!dollars.!And!because!that!money!was!not!properly!
used!and!because!it!didnt!filter!into!programs!such!as!mine!#!#!!
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T#79!April!8,!2011!
Leslie!McGirth:!!They!lost!it.!They!lost!it.!Let!me!answer!this.!
Tyron!Ali:!!Sure.!!
Leslie!McGirth:!!(On!the!phone)!Hello.!!Yes.!!Okay,!her!name!is!Maria!Wagner,!and!listen,!when!you!go!
shes!going!to!give!you!a!check!for!me!to!bring!to!me.!Its!for!ShopRite,!for!the!people!from!ShopRite!
that!are!coming!for!dinner.!Okay.!But!her!name!is!Marie!Wagner.!(So!shes!waiting,!you!got!the!picture,!
right?!!Very!good.!!Alright,!proud!of!ya,!alright,!bye#bye.!!
Tyron!Ali:!!Youve!got!your!hands!filled.!
Leslie!McGirth:!!Listen,!you!know!you!have!a!committee,!and!you!do!everything,!but!the!young!man,!he!
was!supposed!to!get!the!cake!for!Ron!and!he!calls!it!in!and!he!says,!you!know,!the!cake,!I,!the!picture,!I,!
its!too!late!for!it.!And!I!said,!What!do!you!mean!its!too!late?!I!said,!This!is!a!task!you!wanted!to!do.!
And!I!said,!We!met!Monday,!why!didnt!you!leave!from!here!Monday!to!care!of!your!task?!Well!how!
about!if!I!just!get!a!couple!cakes?!And!I!called!ShopRite!and!I!said,!Listen,!I!have!an!emergency.!I!said,!
An!embarrassing!emergency.!!I!said,!But!the!person!who!was!supposed!to!take!care!of!the!cake,!
didnt.!She!said,!Leslie,!dont!worry,!well!take!care!of!you.!I!said,!she!said!Get!the!picture!here.!!I!said,!
Ill!call!him!now!and!tell!him!!get!that!picture!there!now.!!So!#!#!
Tyron!Ali:!!At!a!time!like!this,!where!youve!got!tremendous!economic!pressures,!the!relationships!are!
key.!!
Leslie!McGirth:!!Absolutely.!!
Tyron!Ali:!!Theyre!key.!!
Leslie!McGirth:!!Mmm#hmm.!Absolutely.!!
Tyron!Ali:!!You!know?!!Umm,!you!have!my!cell!phone!number,!umm,!an!time!you!need!a!hand!or!as!a!
matter!of!fact,!I!will!talk!to!Ron!next!week!#!#!
Leslie!McGirth:!!Thank!you.!!
Tyron!Ali:!!And!figure!out!what,!what!we!may!have!thats!in!common,!that!makes!sense!and!then!based!
on!that!Ill!give!you!a!call!next!week!and!figure!out!what!we!might!be!able!to!look!at.!!
Tyron!Ali:!!But!Tony!needs!to!do!a!better!job!for!you!because!there!is,!theres!a!wealth!of!opportunity,!
even!in!this!building!as!it!is,!theres!a!wealth!of!opportunity.!Umm,!what!times!the!party!tomorrow!
anyway?!!
Leslie!McGirth:!!The!party!starts!at!eight!oclock.!Now!your!table,!your!table!is,!the!first!name!is!T#Y#R#O#
N!.!
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T#79!April!8,!2011!
Tyron!Ali:!!Yes.!!
Leslie!McGirth:!!And!the!last!name!is!A#L#I.!!
Tyron!Ali:!!Yes.!!
Leslie!McGirth:!!Right?!!
Leslie!McGirth:!!Okay.!!Alright!#!#!
Tyron!Ali:!!You!got!it.!
!Leslie!McGirth:!!#!#!so!thats!the!name!thats!on!the!table.!!
Tyron!Ali:!!Okay.!!
Leslie!McGirth:!!For!you.!!Okay.!!
Tyron!Ali:!!You!know,!you!could!actually!put!on!the!table!as!well,!you!can!put!Cambria!Law!Center.(!
Tyron!Ali:!!Thats!fine.!!
Leslie!McGirth:!!Now!spell!that!for!me.!!
Tyron!Ali:!!Its!C#A#M.!!
Leslie!McGirth:!!C#A#M.!!
Tyron!Ali:!!B#R#I#A.!!
Leslie!McGirth:!!B#R#I#A.!!
Tyron!Ali:!!Yup.!!
Leslie!McGirth:!!Law!Center?!!
Tyron!Ali:!!Law!Center,!yup.!!
Leslie!McGirth:!!Alright.!!
Tyron!Ali:!!Were!actually!in!North!Philadelphia!as!well.!!
Tyron!Ali:!!But!I!spend!a!majority!of!my!time!up!in!Harrisburg!because!I!lobby.!But!youre!doing!a!good!
job!Leslie,!just!keep!it!up.!!
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T#79!April!8,!2011!
Leslie!McGirth:!!I!(inaudible).!!
Tyron!Ali:!!You!know?!Did!we!meet!that!night?!We!met!that!night,!right?!
Leslie!McGirth:!!Yeah,!we!met!that!night!#!#!
Tyron!Ali:!!Yeah,!because!I!remember!your!name.!!
Tyron!Ali:!!You!know.!!
Leslie!McGirth:!!You!wrote!your!name!on!a!piece!of!paper!for!me.!!
Tyron!Ali:!!Yeah.!!
Leslie!McGirth:!!And!you!said!youd!call!me.!!!
Tyron!Ali:!!Call!me.!!
Leslie!McGirth:!!For!Rons!party!#!#!
Tyron!Ali:!!Yes.!
Leslie!McGirth:!!and!youd!let!me!know,!and!I!tell!you,!Im!so!excited!about!the!portion!that!youre!doing!
because!I!know!when!he!comes!up!hes!going!to!be!in!awe.!So!#!#!
Tyron!Ali:!!Ron!and!I,!we,!like!I!said,!we!go!back!a!long!way,!but!in!his!new!role,!in!his!new!role,!we!
believe!that!he!can!be!extremely!successful.!!
Tyron!Ali:!!And!in!order!to!do!so!you!need!to!be!seen!as!having!the!resources!to!do!so.!And!that!it!what!I!
bring!to!the!table.!!!
Tyron!Ali:!!That!is!what!we!bring.!We!bring!the!ability!to!make!change!occur.!
Leslie!McGirth:!!Now!are!you!on!the!floor!with!him!in!Harrisburg?!!
Tyron!Ali:!!I!mean,!no,!no,!no.!I!lobby,!but!you!know,!we!can,!we!do!have!access!you!know.!!We!have!
access!to!not!just!the!floor!but!the!folks!themselves!on!the!floor.!!
Leslie!McGirth:!!Right,!right,!right.!
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(31:28)!
Tyron!Ali:!!You!Know?!And!at!some!point!this!is,!this!is,!something!that!Id!like!to!share!with!you.!At!
some!point,!you!need!to!sort!of,!and!this!is!just!a!suggestion,!look!at!a!public#private!partnership.!
Because!if!youre!able!to!get!even!a!small!grant!from!Anthony,!theres!the!possibility!that!we!might!be!
able!to!assist.!Because!we!have!not!made!any!real!commitment!to!anyone!as!of!yet,!outside!of!
Philadelphia.!So!itd!be!interesting!if!we!could!do!something!with!you!first.!!
Leslie!McGirth:!!Okay,!okay.!!
Tyron!Ali:!!And!Im!only!doing!that!because!Ron!is!my!friend.!!
Leslie!McGirth:!!Now,!are!you,!would!you!consider!sitting!on!the!board!also?!Is!that!something!that!
youre?!
Tyron!Ali:!!You!know!what,!Ive!been!on!the!advisory!board!for!a!number!of,!ah,!number!of!different!
businesses!and!some!charitable!institutions,!my!plate!is!sort!of!full,!but!I!will!talk!to!Ron!and!see!if!we!
can!do!something!thats!positive!and!do!something!that!makes!sense!and!not!have!you!wait!for!a!year.!
All!of!those!things!are!helpful.!You!know,!well!get!a!chance!to!talk!tomorrow.!!
Leslie!McGirth:!!Okay,!okay.!!
Tyron!Ali:!!Well!get!a!chance!to!talk!tomorrow.!!
Leslie!McGirth:!!Very!good,!it!sounds!like!we!all!need!a!really!long!sit!down!for!this.!!
Tyron!Ali:!!Yes,!yes.!!
Leslie!McGirth:!!My!husband!and!I!were!excellent!cooks,!and!Ron!loves!to!come!and!eat!at!our!house.!!
Tyron!Ali:!!Oh,!really?!!
Leslie!McGirth:!!So!I!think!we!should!do!that.!!
Tyron!Ali:!!Well,!Ill!tell!you!were!in!Philadelphia!most!of!the!time!and!well!take!you!guys!out!to!lunch.!!
Leslie!McGirth:!!Okay,!very!good.!!
Tyron!Ali:!!Its,!umm,!Im!just!letting!my!guy!know!that,!ah!!
(33:10)(
Leslie!McGirth:!!Now,!Ali,!I!know!you!dont!want!this,!but!again,!Ron!will!tell!you!Im!just!thorough!when!
I!do!this.!Im!going!to!give!you!invoices.!!
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T#79!April!8,!2011!
Tyron!Ali:!!Oh,!sure,!sure.!!
Leslie!McGirth:!!And!everything!that!will!show!for!this!money.!!
Tyron!Ali:!!You!dont!need!to!but!okay.!!
Leslie!McGirth:!!I!know,!but!it!was!cash!that!was!given!#!#!
Tyron!Ali:!!I!understand.!
Leslie!McGirth:!!#!#!we!have!to!invoice!for!the!donation,!and!thats!just!what!I!do.!Thats!what!I!do.!!
Tyron!Ali:!!Thats!okay.!
Leslie!McGirth:!!And!he!says,!and!Im!telling!you,!you!talk!to!him!about.!!Hes!going!to!tell!you,!he!said,!
When!they!go!to!Harrisburg!they!say!Im!the!throughest!grant#keeper!they!have!ever!seen!in!their!life.!
Tyron!Ali:!!Its!important,!it!is!important.!!
Leslie!McGirth:!!It!is,!it!is.!I!just!want!to!give!you!a!copy!of!this!#!#!
Tyron!Ali:!!Sure.!
Leslie!McGirth:!!#!#!so!that!you!can!have!it,!and!then!Im!going!to!follow!up!#!#!!
Tyron!Ali:!!Thank!you!dear.!!
Leslie!McGirth:!!with!receipts!and!invoices.!!
Tyron!Ali:!!Okay.!!
Leslie!McGirth:!!!After!the!event!for!you.!!(Speaking(to(someone(else)!So!did!you!hurt!your!foot!or!
something?!!I!dont!want!to!hear!that!for!tomorrow!night.!Okay?!Darby!just!got!their!new!recreation!
center.!!
Tyron!Ali:!!Ahh!
Leslie!McGirth:!!And!my!son!is!out!here!and!he!was!over!there!playing.!Come!on!copier.!!We!need!an!
industrial!copier!machine.!!Thats!one!of!the!things!my!(inaudible).!!
Leslie!McGirths!Assistant:!(inaudible).!
Leslie!McGirth:!!Hmm?!!
Leslie!McGirths!Assistant:!(inaudible).!!
Leslie!McGirth:!!Introduce!yourself!say,!hello.!!
Leslie!McGirths!Assistant:!How!you!doing!(inaudible)?!
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T#79!April!8,!2011!
Tyron!Ali:!!Hi,!Tyron!Ali,!nice!to!meet!you.!!
Leslie!McGirth:!!This!is!one!of!the!young!men!that!we!have!working,!he!graduated!from!this!program.!
Tyron!Ali:!!Thank!you,!dear.!
Leslie!McGirth:!!And!we!made!him!come!back!to!work,!so!he!had!to!come!back!and!give!back!to!the!
program!also.!!
Tyron!Ali:!!Thats!good.!!
Leslie!McGirth:!!Mmm!hmm.!
Tyron!Ali:!!Re#investment!of!time.!!
Leslie!McGirth:!!Absolutely.!Absolutely.!
Tyron!Ali:!!Thank!you.!!
Leslie!McGirth:!!(Inaudible)!(Speaking(to(someone(else)!I!wonder,!do!I!have!it!here!or!does!
Terry:!You!say!you!got!a!key?!
Leslie!McGirth:!!(inaudible).!!
Tyron!Ali:!!Okay.!!
Leslie!McGirth:!!Make!sure!you!bring!your!dollar!for!the!tree.!!
Tyron!Ali:!!Oh,!I!will!make!sure.!!
Terry:!Show!him!the!
Leslie!McGirth:!!Oh,!the!computer!lab?!!
Terry:!Yeah,!and!the!credentials!thats!on!the!wall.!!
(35:25)(
Leslie!McGirth:!!Were!in!process!ofwere!looking!for!funding!towell,!were!asking!for!volunteers!for!
contractors!to!come!down!and!bring!us!a!counter!from!here!all!the!way!around.!But!its!the!hardest!
thing!going!after!the!contractors!for!it.!So!that!we!can!do!a!computer!lab!all!the!way!around.!And!with!
the!funding!that!were!going!to!get!from!Ron,!Ron!donated!all!the!computers,!but!we!had!way!more!
than!this,!but!they!all!crashed!on!us.!So!were!in!the!process!of!trying!to!get!more!computers!to!put!in!so!
that!we!can!have!the!counter!that!goes!all!the!way!around.!We!are,!we!house!for!cyber,!you!know!what!
cyber#!students!#!#!
Tyron!Ali:!!Sure.!!
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Leslie!McGirth:!!are!the!ones!that!do!their!own!work!on!the!computer.!!
Leslie!McGirth:!!So!during!the!course!of!a!day!we!have!about!eleven!kids!that!come!in!the!morning!just!
for!cyber,!and!then!all!the!kids!that!we!have!come!in!at!2:30!in!the!afternoon.!And!right!now!because!of!
the!condition!of!the!computers,!when!the!kids!come!in!in!the!evening!for!homework!we!cant!let!them!
get!on!em!because!they!have!to!be!here!for!the!cyber#kids.!!
Tyron!Ali:!!Do!you!have!a!different!room!besides!this?!Or!is!this!the!only!##!
Leslie!McGirth:!!No,!this!is!the!only!computer!lab!
Tyron!Ali:!!And!its!a!single!story?!!
Tyron!Ali:!!Okay.!!
Leslie!McGirth:!!And!Donatucci,!theyre!coming!here!(inaudible).!!
Tyron!Ali:!!I!saw!his!picture!over!there.!!!
Leslie!McGirth:!!Yes,!this!is!going!to!be!our!office!for!them!to!come.!The!girl!is!going!to!add!that!as!a!
special!attraction.!So!theyre!supposed!to!come,!Senator!Williams!is!supposed!to!come!
Tyron!Ali:!!When?!Tomorrow!night?!!
Leslie!McGirth:!!Well!no,!this!is!going!to!be!an!office!for!them.!Theyre!going!to!come!inthe!young!lady!
who!used!to!have!this!office!just!left!so!they!have!to!clean!up!in!there!and!its!going!to!be!a!room!where!
anybody!who!needs!to!come!in!to!talk!to!State!Representative!Donatucci,!or!the!Senator.!!Itll!be!here!in!
Darby!for!them!to!come!and!do!that.!!
Tyron!Ali:!!Thats!an!excellent!idea,!kind!of!brings!resources!
Leslie!McGirth:!!Exactly.!!
Tyron!Ali:!!Directly!where!its!needed.!!
Leslie!McGirth:!!Mmm!hmm,!and!then!they!get!to!see!firsthand!exactly!whats!going!on.!!
Tyron!Ali:!!Ill!tell!you,!youre!doing!a!great!job!Leslie.!!
Tyron!Ali:!!And!keep!up!the!good!work!
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Tyron!Ali:!!And!whatever!we!can!do!to!support!those!initiatives,!let!me!know.!!
Tyron!Ali:!!And!you!have!my!number,!not!too!many!people!have!that!number.!!
Tyron!Ali:!!Youre!welcome.!
Leslie!McGirth:!!And!listen,!State!Representative!Donatucci!just!now!gave!me!her!cell!
Tyron!Ali:!!Yeah,!Marias!a!good!person.!!
Leslie!McGirth:!!She!said!Im!giving!you!my!personal!cell!and!she!said,!anything!you!need,!Im!giving!
you!my!personal!cell!dont!hesitate!to!call!me.!!
Tyron!Ali:!!Thats!fantastic.!!
Leslie!McGirth:!!Well,!my!hubbys!here!so!I!can!hug!you.!!
Tyron!Ali:!!Good!luck,!okay.!!
Tyron!Ali:!!Good!luck!with!everything!tomorrow,!Im!sure!I!will,!Ill!see!you!
Terry:!Oh,!youre!not!going!to!(inaudible)?!!
Tyron!Ali:!!No,!I!will!be,!I!will!be.!!!!
Leslie!McGirth:!!(inaudible).!
Tyron!Ali:!!No,!Im!not.!!
Terry:!Oh,!ok.!!
Tyron!Ali:!!Im!much!more!of!a!finance!guy.!Its!very!nice!meeting!you.!!
Terry:!Pleased!meeting!you!too.!Thanks!a!lot.!
Tyron!Ali:!!Take!good!care.!!
Leslie!McGirth:!!Now,!is!somebody!going!to!come!with!you?!!
Tyron!Ali:!!Yesoh,!you!mean!as!an!accompaniment?!Probably!not.!!
Tyron!Ali:!!Probably!not.!!
19!
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T#79!April!8,!2011!
Leslie!McGirth:!!Youre!just!going!to!come!by!yourself?!!
Tyron!Ali:!!I!may,!it!depends!on!if,!well,!Ill!check!with!one!of!my!folks!and!see!if!anybody!wants!to,!you!
know?!!
Leslie!McGirth:!!Okay,!well!Ill!make!sure!that!you!at!least!have!two!seats!there.!!!
Tyron!Ali:!!Yes,!that!would!be!great!!
Leslie!McGirth:!!Alright.!!
Tyron!Ali:!!Thank!you!so!much.!!
Leslie!McGirth:!!Perfect,!alright!then.!!
Tyron!Ali:!!Talk!to!you!soon.!!
Tyron!Ali:!!Youre!welcome.!Bye#bye.!
Leslie!McGirth:!!Bye#bye.!Oh!theyre!in!early,!its!set!up!too.!!
Tyron!Ali:!!Oh,!yes!its!right!across!the!street.!!
Leslie!McGirth:!!Absolutely.!!
Tyron!Ali:!!Ill!just!borrow!your!awning!here!for!a!minute.!!
Leslie!McGirth:!!Do!you!need!an!umbrella?!!
Tyron!Ali:!!No,!no,!no.!I!should!be!okay.!!
Leslie!McGirth:!!Wheres!your!car!at?!!
Tyron!Ali:!!Itll!be!here!shortly.!Probably!in!two!minutes.!!
Leslie!McGirth:!!Then!why!dont!you!wait!in!the!door?!!
Tyron!Ali:!!You!know!what,!I!will.!Thank!you.!!
Leslie!McGirth:!!Yes,!dont!get!wet.!I!was!going!to!walk!you!to!the!car!with!an!umbrella.!!
Tyron!Ali:!!That!is!a!beautiful!place!over!there.!!
Leslie!McGirth:!!It!is!lovely.!And!Ken!gives!his,!his!heart!out,!you!know!we!couldnt!have!did!an!affair!like!
this!for!ten!dollars!a!person.!!
Tyron!Ali:!!No.!!
20!
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T#79!April!8,!2011!
Leslie!McGirth:!!Yeah,!were!going!to!have!a!VIP!room!upstairs!so!its!really!going!to!be!great.!!
Tyron!Ali:!!How!many!people!are!you!expecting?!!
Leslie!McGirth:!!Three!hundred.!!
Tyron!Ali:!!Three!hundred?!!
Leslie!McGirth:!!And!people!are!still!calling.!We!had!to!shut!it!off.!We!had!to!apologize.!Its!no!way,!
people!are!calling!for!tables!of!ten.!But,!we!absolutely!cannot!do!it.!We!cant!over!pack!the!place.!So!
thats!why!we!did!VIP!rooms!upstairs!also.!!So!some!of!the!dignitaries!can!go!upstairs.!
Tyron!Ali:!!So!theyre!actually!there!now!to!set#up,!to!help!set#up!for!tomorrow?!!
Leslie!McGirth:!!Yeah.!!Mmm!hmm.!And!were!all!going!on!over!with!the!tree!with!all!of!thatwere!you!
able!to!get!cake?!!
Unknown!child:!He!gave!me!a!little!piece.!!
Leslie!McGirth:!!Ok,!thats!alright,!well!be!grateful.!!
Unknown!child:!I!(inaudible)!it!already.!!
Leslie!McGirth:!!Well!go!out!and!get!some.!!
Unknown!female:!Okay.!!
Leslie!McGirth:!!Okay,!Im!surprised,!look!in!that!drawer.!!
Unknown!child:!Okay,!I!did!but!Ill!check!again.!!
Leslie!McGirth:!!Because!we!had!tape.!Ill!have!to!look!at!the!supplies.!And!wheres!her!cake?!For!
Spencer?!Is!that!mine!or!hers?!
Unknown!child:!Hers.!!
Leslie!McGirth:!!Do!I!have!one!on!my!plate?!!
Unknown!child:!(inaudible)!!
Leslie!McGirth:!!Yeah.!!
Unknown!child:!Is!it!that!one?!!
Leslie!McGirth:!!Yes,!absolutely.!!
Unknown!child:!Okay.!!
Tyron!Ali:!!How!many!young!people!are!going!to!be!there!tomorrow?!!
21!
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T#79!April!8,!2011!
Leslie!McGirth:!!None.!!
Tyron!Ali:!!None?!Oh,!this!is!strictly!an!adult!affair?!!
Leslie!McGirth:!!No,!cause!of!the!alcohol.!!Mmm!hmm.!!
Tyron!Ali:!!Got!it.!!
Leslie!McGirth:!!No!we!have,!I!think!(inaudible)!be!there!with!the!money!tree!and!things!like!that!
working!with!breeders!and!different!things.!But!no,!I!dont!believe!any!of!even!his!children!will!be!there.!!
Tyron!Ali:!!Mmm,!I!see.!!
Leslie!McGirth:!!Yeah.!Its!best!not!to!do!that!when!you!have!a!bar.!!
Tyron!Ali:!!Sure.!!
Leslie!McGirth:!!Mmm!hmm,!and!thats!decency.!!
Tyron!Ali:!!And!the!liability!and!insurance!for!the!event!and!all!those!things!play!in.!!
Leslie!McGirth:!!And!we!all!want!to!all!have!a!good!time.!We!want!to!be!able!to!dance.!Now!do!you!
come!to!any!of!the!senators!affairs?!!
Tyron!Ali:!!!You!know!what,!not!usually.!I!mean,!were!outside!of!that!district!so!typically!we!dont.!But!I!
was!very,!you!know!Im!very!concerned!that!you,!that!youre!able!to!get!some!of!the!resources!that!you!
need.!Because!it!seems!like!youre!doing!a!good!job.!!
Tyron!Ali:!!Were!definitely!going!to!have!a!conversation!with!Ron!
Tyron!Ali:!!Sometime!next!week.!Because!I!see!the!building!and!I!just!see!opportunity,!you!know?!I!was!
wondering!why!there!isnt!a!day!care!center!here,!you!know?!!
Leslie!McGirth:!!Oh!wow,!that!would!just!be!too!much.!We!actually!have!a!recreation!center!where!
probably!something!like!that!could!go.!!
Tyron!Ali:!!Mmm!hmm.!
Leslie!McGirth:!!At!the!Darby!Rec.!!
Leslie!McGirth:!!Yeah.!They!definitely!would!be!able!to,!and!I!think!they!want!to!do!something!like!that!
there!too.!Thats!a!huge!building!and!we!will!be!going!in!there!also.!Doing!things!with!them.!!
22!
!
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!
T#79!April!8,!2011!
Tyron!Ali:!!Something!like,!even!something!that!could!function!as!a!work!or!job!training!
Leslie!McGirth:!!Oh!absolutely.!!
Tyron!Ali:!!Like!a!smaller!version!of!an!Earn!Center.!
Tyron!Ali:!!Or!GED!classes.!!
Leslie!McGirth:!!Yes.!!
Tyron!Ali:!!I!mean!theres!a!host!of!things!you!could!do.!!
Leslie!McGirth:!!We!get!that!all!the!time.!We!get!kids!that!walk!in!all!the!time!in!reference!to!their!GED.!!
Tyron!Ali:!!And!then!in!Darby,!Im!not!very!familiar,!but!is!there!a!huge!immigrant!population!here?!!
Leslie!McGirth:!!Yes.!!
Tyron!Ali:!!I!know!that!there!are!lot!of!Liberians!that!sort!of!moved!in.!!
Leslie!McGirth:!!We!had!some!that!came!in!and!the!speak!French.!We!have!a!young!lady!from!Delaware!
County!Community!College,!who!specialized!in!French,!and!she!taught!them!English,!and!those!kids!are!
now!on!the!honor!roll.!And!one!of!the!young!men,!well!actually!a!couple!of!them!have!already!
graduated,!but!just!one!that!I!am!particularly!fond!of,!who!has!been!with!me!the!duration!of!this!
program,!is!coming!out!this!year!on!the!honor!roll.!So!you!know!who!that!is!Terry,!right?!Mohammad.!!
Terry:!Mohammed!(inaudible)?!!
Leslie!McGirth:!!Mmm!hmm.!And!his!brother!comes!out!next!year.!!
Terry:!And!(inaudible).!!
Leslie!McGirth:!!They!could!not!speak!a!lick!of!English!when!they!came.!And!his!father!came!and!he!was!
so!concerned.!And!we!said!well!get!somebody!that!will!come!in!and!teach!him.!!
Tyron!Ali:!!Having!
Terry:!(inaudible)!!
Tyron!Ali:!!Where!those!folks!are!being!taught!American!history!
Terry:!Hello.!Okay!(inaudible)!whats!up?!!
Terry:!I!cant!complain,!whats!going!on?!!!
23!
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T#79!April!8,!2011!
Tyron!Ali:!!Specifically!because!of!the!green!card!requirement,!those!things!were!always!very!helpful.!!
Leslie!McGirth:!!Mmm!hmm.!
Terry:!Oh!wow.!!
Leslie!McGirth:!!He!didnt!park!on!the!street?!!
Tyron!Ali:!!I!dont!think!so,!I!think,!because!we!are!both!unfamiliar!with!the!area!were!just!trying,!hes!
just!trying!to!probably!find!a!place!to!park!and!probably!grab!something!to!eat.!!
Leslie!McGirth:!!Alright,!alright.!!
Terry:!Do!me!a!favor,!do!me!a!favor.!Hang!up!the!phone!now.!!
Leslie!McGirth:!!Sorry!we!couldnt!offer!anything.!!
Tyron!Ali:!!Oh!no,!its!fine,!I!came!here!specifically!to!do!this!because!today!was!justmy!days!are!just!
interesting,!jam!packed!days.!But!we!knew!that!this!was!for!Ron!and!I!have!met!you,!and!besides!all!of!
those!things!I!promised!you!that!I!would!and!it!wasnt!a!political!promise.!!
Leslie!McGirth:!!Right.!Absolutely.!!
Tyron!Ali:!!Im!sure!youve!gotten!your!share!of!those!over!the!years.!!
Leslie!McGirth:!!Now!is!your!car!a!black!Mercedes?!!
Tyron!Ali:!!Yeah,!mmm!hmm.!
Leslie!McGirth:!!Hes!right!there.!!
Tyron!Ali:!!Oh,!hes!here,!great.!!
Tyron!Ali:!!Thanks!so!much.!!
Leslie!McGirth:!!Yeah!but!
Tyron!Ali:!!No,!its!ok,!I!dont!need!an!umbrella.!Its!fine.!!
Leslie!McGirth:!!Just!tell!him!to!move!up.!!
Tyron!Ali:!!No,!its!fine.!Thank!you!so!much!dear.!!
Tyron!Ali:!!Alright,!Ill!see!you!soon,!bye#bye.!Take!care.!!
Claude!Thomas:!This!tape!is!being!deactivated!at!15:10!hundred!hours.!!
!
24!
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T#79!April!8,!2011!
[Recording(Stops](!
25!
!
TAPE%80%%April%9,%2011%
!
CLAUDE!THOMAS:!Supervisory!Special!Agent,!Pennsylvania!Office!of!Attorney!General,!badge!number!
118,!A!Certification!number!is!A1418.!Today's!date!is!Saturday,!March!12th,!March,!excuse!me!9th,!
March!9th!year!2011.!Current!time!is!19:32!hours.!This!recording!device!is!being!placed!on!CI!2010P01.!In!
reference!to!investigation!number!36P662.!CI!will!be!recording!communications!with!Rep!RW.!!
!
5:30%
TYRON!ALI:!How!ya!doing?!How!are!you?!Good!evening.!Do!you!know!where!Miss!Leslie!is?!
UNIDENTIFIED!MALE:!I!believe!she's!inside!the!building.!
TYRON!ALI:!Okay,!thanks.!
TYRON!ALI:!Hey!Leslie!!How!are!you!doll?!
LESLIE:!Alright,!how!are!you?!
TYRON!ALI:!You!look!great.!
LESLIE:!Thank!you,!thank!you.!
TYRON!ALI:!Is!the!birthday!boy!here!yet?!
LESLIE:!Not!yet,!not!yet.!
TYRON!ALI:!Hi,!Tyron!Ali.!
UNIDENTIFIED!FEMALE:!Hi,!I'm!Julia.!
TYRON!ALI:!Nice!to!meet!you.!
LESLIE:!Would!you!like!to!see!where!you're!going!to!be!sitting?!
TYRON!ALI:!Oh,!sure.!
LESLIE:!Hang!out!a!little!bit.!
UNIDENTIFIED!FEMALE:!You're!name?!
TYRON!ALI:!Tyron!Ali.!
LESLIE:!He's!actually!a!guest!of!State!Representative!Ronald!G.!Waters.!So!you'll!see!him...!
UNIDENTIFIED!MALE:!!On!the!last!page.!Oh,!that's!Tyron!Ali.!Okay.!
LESLIE:!Yes,!that's...!
UNIDENTIFIED!MALE:!Right!here.!You!know!his!table.!Leslie,!will!you!escort!him!to!his!table,!because!its!
not!marked?!
[background!conversations0involving0other0persons]!
TYRON!ALI:!Thank!you.!
1!
!
TAPE%80%%APRIL%9,%2011%
LESLIE:!(inaudible)!Ron's!table.!
TYRON!ALI:!Okay.!Great.!
LESLIE:!Alright,!very!good.!
TYRON!ALI:!Everything!come!off!the!way!that!you!wanted!it!to?!
LESLIE:!Oh!God,!yes.!We're!waiting!for!Michael!to!get!here.!
[background0conversation0involving0other0persons]!
!
7:36%
TYRON!ALI:!You're!running!a!little!bit!behind?!
LESLIE:!Well!the!facility!is.!!
TYRON!ALI:!Oh,!I!see.!
LESLIE:!Yeah,!the!facility!is.!!
UNIDENTIFIED!MALE:!We're!here,!okay.!!I!Just!wanted!to!check!in,!let!you!know!that!we're!here.!We'll!be!
sitting!up!on!the!deck.!
LESLIE:!Is!that!Michael?!
UNIDENTIFIED!MALE:!Yeah.!
LESLIE:!Oh,!we!want!Michael!outside.!
UNIDENTIFIED!MALE:!Oh,!yeah!okay.!
LESLIE:!Cause!so!let's!meet!him.!This!is!the!young!man!who!has!paid!for!Mr.!Michael....!
TYRON!ALI:!Hi,!Tyron!Ali.!
LESLIE:...so!we!definitely!want!to...!
TYRON!ALI:!(inaudible)0!it's!okay.!
UNIDENTIFIED!MALE:!Good!to!see!you.!
LESLIE:!Yes,!so!we!!I'd!like!to!introduce!you!to!him.!
UNIDENTIFIED!MALE:!Okay,!let!me!bring!him!in.!
LESLIE:!Okay.!
TYRON!ALI:!The!place!looks!great!though!!
LESLIE:!Doesn't!it!look!beautiful?!
TYRON!ALI:!It!does!!You!did!a!great!job!!
2!
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LESLIE:!I'm!very!happy!with!it,!thank!you.!I'm!very!happy,!and!I!think!Ron's!going!to!be!very!happy.!
TYRON!ALI:!There's!no!way!he!wouldn't!be!happy,!Leslie.!Nobody,!you!know,!it's!so!important!that!
people!like!you!exist.!
LESLIE:!Aw.!Aw.!
TYRON!ALI:!It!really!is.!
LESLIE:!Thank!you.!!
[Leslies0discussion0with0facility0about0event]!
LESLIE:!Excuse!me,!one!second.!
TYRON!ALI:!Sure.!
[Long0Pause]!
!
27:45%
UNIDENTIFIED!MALE:!How!ya!doin!sir?!
TYRON!ALI:!Hey,!how!are!ya?!
UNIDENTIFIED!MALE:!Thanks!for!all!your!support.!
TYRON!ALI:!Oh,!no!problem.!No!problem.!My!pleasure.!
UNIDENTIFIED!MALE:!Giving!back!to!your!community.!
TYRON!ALI:!My!pleasure.!You're!welcome.!
[Long0Pause]!
!
54:10%![Rep0Ron0Waters0is0introduced]!
!
54:48%
TYRON!ALI:!Hey!Ron!!
RON!WATERS:!What's!up,!man?!
TYRON!ALI:!Happy!Birthday,!man.!
RON!WATERS:!My!brother.!!You!alright!man?!
TYRON!ALI:!Yeah,!yeah,!yeah.!
TYRON!ALI:!Before!you!run!around,!I!got!something!for!you,!from!our!folks.!
3!
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RON!WATERS:!(Laughing)!!Ahhhh.!You!know!how!to!make!a!birthday!special!right?!
TYRON!ALI:!Yes!!That's!right,!that's!right.!That's!right.!
!
58:25%
TYRON!ALI:!Leslie,!you!don't!have!a!small!birthday!card!do!you!by!any!chance?!
LESLIE:!A!small!birthday!card?!
TYRON!ALI:!Yeah.!
LESLIE:!No.!
TYRON!ALI:!I!shouldve!brought!one.!
LESLIE:!But!were!doing!that!money!tree.!
TYRON!ALI:!I!know...!
!
01:11:42%
TYRON!ALI:!I!have!another!function!I!have!to!go!to!
RON!WATERS:!You!have!to!roll!already?!Come!on,!you!just!got!here,!Ali!!
TYRON!ALI:!Ive!been!here!since!7:30!!Ive!been!here!since!7:30!!
RON!WATERS:!Alright,!yeah.!
TYRON!ALI:!I!was!on!time!Mr.!Chairman!
RON!WATERS:!(Laughs)!
TYRON!ALI:!Alright?!
[TYRON0ALI0and0RON0WATERS0proceed0to0leave0the0party]!
!
01:13:24%
TYRON!ALI:!Well,!they!sure!did!bring!Michael!Jackson!for!you,!sir.!He!might!be!living!!
RON!WATERS:!Oh!man!!I!was!surprised!man.!
TYRON!ALI:!She!did!a!great!job.!
RON!WATERS:!She!did.!She!did.!She!did,!man.!
TYRON!ALI:!Everybody's!here!for!you,!man.!!
UNIDENTIFIED!FEMALE:!Thank!you!sweetheart.!
4!
!
TAPE%80%%APRIL%9,%2011%
TYRON!ALI:!Where're!you!parked?!
RON!WATERS:!I'm!parked!right!around!there.!
TYRON!ALI:!Well!alright,!we'll!walk!up!there.!How!you!doing!man?!So!how!young!are!you!today?!
RON!WATERS:!61.!
TYRON!ALI:!You're!kidding!me.!
RON!WATERS:!Yeah!man.!
TYRON!ALI:!Wow,!man.!You!look!fantastic.!
RON!WATERS:!My!mom's!82,!I!was!born!on!her!21st!birthday.!
TYRON!ALI:!You're!kidding!me.!Wow!
RON!WATERS:!(Inaudible)!
TYRON!ALI:!Aw!man.!Leslie!called!me!up,!she!was!like....!
[Inaudible0exchange0with0passerby]!
TYRON!ALI:!But!these!people,!they!really!put!their!heart!and!soul!into!this!for!you.!
RON!WATERS:!They!did,!man.!
TYRON!ALI:!You!mean!a!lot!to!them.!!You!know?!
RON!WATERS:!I'm!glad!the!weather!turned!out!to!be!good.!
TYRON!ALI:!Yes.!Yes.!!
RON!WATERS:!I!couldn't!leave!man,!(Inaudible)!daughter!with!the!car!keys.!
UNIDENTIFIED!MALE:!Oh!okay.!Everything!is!all!been!handled,!its!good!now.!!
TYRON!ALI:!She!asked!me!yesterday,!you!know!I'm!not!one!for!press!but,!she!asked!me!yesterday!she!
said,!could!you!please!escort!him!in?!I!said,!I!tell!you!what,!you!need!somebody!prettier!than!me!to!do!
that.!!
[Both0laughing]![1:14:41]!
TYRON!ALI:!Hey,!thanks!so!much!for!putting!that!meeting!together!with!Vince,!man.!!You!know!what!I!
mean?!
RON!WATERS:!Yeah,!we!gotta!call,!get!the!follow!up.!
TYRON!ALI:!I!know,!I!know.!
RON!WATERS:!Its!not!gonna!be!a!problem!because!now!that!we!broke!the!ice!this!time.!
TYRON!ALI:!I!know.!I!know!you've!got!me!man.!
5!
!
TAPE%80%%APRIL%9,%2011%
RON!WATERS:!It's!just!a!matter!of,!um,!him,!um,!now.!You!know!I!can't!pressure!him!because!I!don't!
want!him!to!run!away.!
TYRON!ALI:!No,!no.!
RON!WATERS:!I!know!him.!I've!known!Vince!for,!I!dont!know,!25P26!years.!Before!he!was!top!dog!like!he!
is!right!now.!So!we!go!back!a!long!way.!!(Inaudible)!trying!to!help!you.!
TYRON!ALI:!I!know!you!will.!Our!folks!are!so!pleased!and!happy.!Not!just!pleased!and!happy!but!the!
impact!that!it!could!have...!
RON!WATERS:!Oh!yeah.!What!are!ya'll!gonna!do!about!the!traffic!court!thing?!Because!I!mean!he!said!
that's!where!they!really!need!a!better!method!of!collection!than!that.!
TYRON!ALI:!Look.!They!gave!me!$10,000!to!do!this!piece.!!!
RON!WATERS:!Okay,!okay.!
TYRON!ALI:!If!you!tell!me,!Tyron,!I'm!taking!you!to!traffic!court,!there's!5P10!million!dollars!in!there,!
we're!gonna!give!it!to!you!guys.!I'm!looking!for!the!path!of!least!resistance.!
RW:!!Okay.!
TYRON!ALI:!You!know!what!I!mean?!
RON!WATERS:!Okay.!So!you!don't!want!to!do!traffic!court?!
TYRON!ALI:!I!would!love!to!do!traffic!court.!
RON!WATERS:!Alright,!I!got!it.!
TYRON!ALI:!Here,!it's!$1,000!in!there!bro.!
RON!WATERS:!My!man!!
TYRON!ALI:!Alright?!
RON!WATERS:!Happy!Birthday!Ron!Waters.!
TYRON!ALI:!God!Bless!you!and!happy!birthday,!man.!
RON!WATERS:!My!man!(laughing).!
TYRON!ALI:!Alright.!I!told!you!Ron,!I!got!you.!
RON!WATERS:!I!know.!I!know.!
TYRON!ALI:!I!don't!deal!with!these!other!fools!up!there!like!that.!
TYRON!ALI:!Do!you!smoke!cigars?!
RON!WATERS:!I!told!you!every!now!and!then.!
6!
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TAPE%80%%APRIL%9,%2011%
TYRON!ALI:!I!brought!one!for!you!man.!
RON!WATERS:!My!man!!(Laughs).!
TYRON!ALI:!I!brought!one!for!you!that!you!will!not!find...!
RON!WATERS:!And!I!know!that!it's!of!some!high!quality...!
TYRON!ALI:!Yes,!that's!a!new!line.!It's!called!the!Prensato.!!!Yes.!
RON!WATERS:!Oh,!wow.!
TYRON!ALI:!It's!a!new!line.!So,!I!hope!you!enjoy!it.!That's!for!your!birthday.!!
RON!WATERS:!I!hope!so!too.!!I'm!sure!I!will,!man.!
TYRON!ALI:!You!know!what?!I'll!do!this.!
RON!WATERS:!What's!that?!
TYRON!ALI:!Let!me!get,!let!me!put!this!one!in!here.!You!can!put!that!one!in!this!little!bag,!and!Ill!grab!
these!two.!
RON!WATERS:!Okay.!
TYRON!ALI:!Put!that!one!in!there.!And!they!even!gave!me!a!box!of!matches!for!you!man.!So!you!know!
how!folks!are.!
RON!WATERS:!(Laughs)!Yeah...!
TYRON!ALI:!When!you!tell!them!it's!an!important!person!they!give!you!the!best,!you!know!what!Im!
saying?!
RON!WATERS:!They,!they!have,!they!have!sometimes!up!in!Harrisburg,!they!had!these!little,!they!got!like!
a!cigar!bar!up!there.!They!have!this!thing!P!P!
UNIDENTIFIED!FEMALE:!Hey,!Ron,!let!me!give!you!a!call.!!
[Laughing].!
RON!WATERS:!I!hope!everything's!alright!Mare.!!
UNIDENTIFIED!FEMALE:!Yeah,!me!too.!!
RON!WATERS:!Alright,!don't!forget!when!you!need!some...!
UNIDENTIFIED!FEMALE:!Hey!you're!supposed!to!be!in!there.!
RON!WATERS:!I!know,!I'm!walking!with!my!friend.!He!gotta!get!goin.!Hey,!as!soon!as!you!get!the!green!
light,!I'm!ready!to!go!with!you.!
UNIDENTIFIED!FEMALE:!Okay!
RON!WATERS:!I'm!there!for!you.!
7!
!
TAPE%80%%APRIL%9,%2011%
UNIDENTIFIED!FEMALE:!Thank!you!so!much.!
RON!WATERS:!Usually!I!go!into!the!schools!all!the!time!and!talk!to!the!kids.!I!do!it!all!the!time.!This!one!
I'm!looking!forward!to.!
UNIDENTIFIED!FEMALE:!Alright.!Thank!you!so!much.!
!
01:17:31%
TYRON!ALI:!If!we!were!gonna!go!to!Traffic!Court!who!would!we!have!to!deal!with?!Thomasina?!
RON!WATERS:!I!would!talk!to!her!because!I!know!her.!You!know!I!mean,!I!got,!we!both!got!our!numbers!
on!speed!dial.!She!would!give!me!good!advice.!!Good!leads.!
TYRON!ALI:!See,!the!thing!about!it!is,!I'm!looking!for!something!now.!That's!the!piece.!You!know!how!it!is!
Ron.!
RON!WATERS:!Right.!
TYRON!ALI:!These!people!are!paying!me!a!truck!load!of!money!to!do!this!thing,!you!know.!
RON!WATERS:!Right,!right.!
TYRON!ALI:!And!so!what!we're!looking!for!is!something,!even!if!it's!something!thats!like!a!pilot!program.!!!
Something!that!we!could!start!P!P!anything!that!we!could!start!in!the!next!30!days!P!P!
RON!WATERS:!!Okay,!okay.!
TYRON!ALI:!!P!P!would!be!helpful.!It!doesn't,!you!know.!Traffic!Court!would!be!great.!
RON!WATERS:!I!didnt!know!it!was!like!that!though!until!Vince!told!me.!
TYRON!ALI:!P!P!the!Parking!Authority,!the!Clerk!of!Court!Sessions.!!Any!of!those.!!
RON!WATERS:!What!is!going!on!with!that?!!Somebody!mentioned!that!that!was!up!for!election.!I!
thought!that!they!disposed!of!that?!
TYRON!ALI:!Um.!Vivian!Miller's!daughter!has!it.!I!think!it!may!be!a!little!bit!in!limbo.!I!don't!know!what!
the!whole!
RON!WATERS:!Yeah,!cause!she!would!have!to!run!for!election.!
TYRON!ALI:!PP!what!the!deal!is.!
RON!WATERS:!She's!!one!of!the!row!officers.!Unless!they!did!make!it,!unless!it's!appointed!now.!Is!it!an!
appointed!position?!
TYRON!ALI:!Yes.!
RON!WATERS:!The!Mayor!transferred!it!to!an!appointed!position!so!she!doesnt!have!to!run.!
TYRON!ALI:!Yes.!!Yes.!
8!
!
TAPE%80%%APRIL%9,%2011%
RON!WATERS:!!Okay!
TYRON!ALI:!!The!daughter!may!have!to.!You!know?!
RON!WATERS:!!Yeah,!Robin.!I!know!the!daughter!very!well!too.!
TYRON!ALI:!What!is!this!place!here?!
RON!WATERS:!This!is!the!same!thing.!
TYRON!ALI:!This!is!the!same!place?!This!is!a!huge!building.!
RON!WATERS:!Yeah.!Yeah.!Great!guy.!
TYRON!ALI:!But!they!were!so!pleased!that!we!were!able!to!get!the!audience!with!Vince!and!now!let's!
just!try!to!move!and!massage!things!along,!you!know?!
RON!WATERS:(inaudible).!
TYRON!ALI:!Yeah!sure.!But!don't,!oh!youre!keeping!that!with!you,!right?!
!
01:19:06%
UNIDENTIFIED!FEMALE:!Hey!!Birthday!Boy!!
RON!WATERS:!Hey!!April!!Whats!going!on?!You!going!to!the!event?!
UNIDENTIFIED!FEMALE:!Yeah.!
RON!WATERS:!You!have!to!go!down!there.!
UNIDENTIFIED!FEMALE:!Okay.!
RON!WATERS:!You!have!to!go!down!this!way,!around!the!corner.!Do!you!know!Tyron!Ali?!
UNIDENTIFIED!FEMALE:!Yeah.!Happy!Birthday,!Ron.!
TYRON!ALI:!Hi!April.!How!are!you?!Nice!to!see!you.!
UNIDENTIFIED!FEMALE:!Nice!to!see!you!too.!
TYRON!ALI:!Everybody!looks!different!out!of!work!clothes.!I!almost!didn't!recognize!you.!
RON!WATERS:!They!dress!up!real!nice,!don't!they?!
TYRON!ALI:!Yes,!they!look!fantastic.!
UNIDENTIFIED!FEMALE:!Were!you!surprised?!
RON!WATERS:!Yeah,!it's!nice.!They!even!got!a!Michael!Jackson!lookPaPlike!in!there.!!
UNIDENTIFIED!FEMALE:!Oh!my!goodness.!
RON!WATERS:!Yeah,!!they!have!a!,!I!dont!know!what.!
9!
!
TAPE%80%%APRIL%9,%2011%
TYRON!ALI:!They!have!a!live!band.!
RON!WATERS:!A!live!band.!
TYRON!ALI:!The!food!smelled!delicious.!
RON!WATERS:!Yeah.!I!don't!know!how!they!do!all!this!for!that!little!bit!that!they!ask!you!for.!You!get!way!
more!than!they!ask!you!for.!
TYRON!ALI:!(Whispers)!I!took!care!of!Leslie.!
RON!WATERS:!Okay.!
TYRON!ALI:!You!know!what!I!mean?!
RON!WATERS:!Okay.!
TYRON!ALI:!So!we!made!sure!everything!was!cool.!
RON!WATERS:!Alright,!alright.!
TYRON!ALI:!She!wanted!me!to!be,!she!wanted!the!law!firm!to!be!like!a!corporate!sponsor.!I!told!her,!I!
said,!I'll!take!care!of!this,!you!know!what!I!mean?!
TYRON!ALI:!No,!Ron,!look!man,!you!look!out!for!me.!!
RON!WATERS:!Okay.!
TYRON!ALI:!You!know,!I!just!need!to!bring!one!home.!
RON!WATERS:!Well!we're!gonna!work!on!that!one.!Cause!I!know!that!guy.!You!know,!I!mean.!I!know!
who!he!is.!
TYRON!ALI:!Tell!Vince!what!the!deal!is,!man.!I!mean,!look!the!deal!is!this:!we!got!10G's!to!spend!on!the!
thing.!He!needs!a!little!cut?!No!problem.!
RON!WATERS:!!Okay,!okay,!okay.!
TYRON!ALI:!You!know!what!I!mean?!No!problem.!
RON!WATERS:!Alright.!
TYRON!ALI:!Let!him!know.!Let!him!know.!
RON!WATERS:!Alright,!okay.!
TYRON!ALI:!I!mean,!the!piece!that!he's!missing!is!how!the!deal!is!constructed.!
RON!WATERS:!Okay.!!
TYRON!ALI:!You're!my!partner.!!
RON!WATERS:!Okay.!
10!
!
TAPE%80%%APRIL%9,%2011%
TYRON!ALI:!You!know!what!I!mean?!Period.!End!of!story.!Whatever!we!bring!to!the!table,!we!both!eat!!
RON!WATERS:!Alright,!alright.!Next!time!I'm!gonna!see!if!we!can!get!him!out!to!meet!at!a!restaurant.!
TYRON!ALI:!If!you!wanna!go!down!to!the...!
RON!WATERS:!Okay!!
TYRON!ALI:!You!know!what!I!mean?!!
RON!WATERS:!Look,!I'll!let!him!pick!where!he!want!to!go.!
TYRON!ALI:!What's!his!favorite!restaurant?!
RON!WATERS:!I!don't!know.!
TYRON!ALI:!Maybe!La!Veranda?!Or!if!he!wants!to!go!to!The!Capitol!Grille!and!if!he'd!like!to!go!
somewhere!else!after.!Alright.!
RON!WATERS:!I!dont!know.!!I'll!ask!him.!I'll!leave!it!up!to!him.!
TYRON!ALI:!Alright.!Happy!Birthday,!my!friend.!Alright.!I!will!be!in!Harrisburg!on!Monday.!And!just,!you!
know!how!to!do.!Lean!on!him!!!
RON!WATERS:!I!will!
TYRON!ALI:!Like!lean!on!me!!Lean!on!him!!!
RON!WATERS:!Alright.!
TYRON!ALI:!Take!good!care.!!
RON!WATERS:!Thank!you!for!this,!my!man.!!
TYRON!ALI:!Yes.!You're!welcome.!Let!me!just!,!ah,!make!this!call.!My!guy,!he's!around!here.!I'm!just!
trying!to!see!where!he!might!be.!Thank!you,!bro.!How!are!you?!!
!
01:22:08%
TYRON!ALI:!(on0phone.)!Hey!there,!sir.!!How!far!are!you?!Okay.!I'm!ready.!I'm!outside.!Alright.!Thank!you.!
[Background0Noises]!
!
CLAUDE!THOMAS:!Again,!this!is!Claude!Thomas.!Today's!date!is!Saturday,!April!9th,!year!2010,!2011.!
This!tape!will!now!be!deactivated.!Time!is!2100!hours.!
11!
!
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3 Penn Square
19107-3499
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T-82 April 26th 2011
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Transcribed by:
Angela N. Kilby, Court Reporter & Notary Public
(April 26, 2011)
(00:00:06)
AGENT:
This is Claude Thomas, Senior
Attorney General, Badge No. 118.
Certification No. A-1418.
Tuesday, April 26, Year 2011.
19:21 hours.
Today's date is
Current time is
This consensual recording device is
10
being placed on CI 2010-01 in reference to
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Investigation No. 36-622.
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CI will be proceeding to a location
13
within the confines of Dauphin County, Harrisburg
14
city.
15
device will remain activated until I deactivate it
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at a later time.
Recording communications with Rep RW.
(00:1:00).
17
(00:13:10)
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TYRON ALI:
19
MALE VOICE:
20
TYRON ALI:
21
you, buddy?
This
Hi.
Two for dinner, please.
How are you doing?

Hey, how are you, sir?
How are
MALE VOICE:
TYRON ALI:
WAITRESS:
TYRON ALI:
(00:13:50)
TYRON ALI:
be running a few minutes late.
Good to see you.
Good to see you.
(00:13:18)
Do you want menus?
WAITRESS:
TYRON ALI:
10
(00:16:15)
11
TYRON ALI:
12
(00:16:40.)
13
TYRON ALI:
14
WAITER:
15
TYRON ALI:
16
Good.
No, that is fine.
Thank you.
(00:13:36)
I am guessing he might
Do you need a wine list?

Hmm, you can bring it.
Hi again.
(00:13:57.)
How are you?
Are you my server?
Yes.
Yeah, can I have a cup of hot tea,
please?
17
WAITER:
Hot tea?
18
TYRON ALI:
19
(00:17:18.)
20
(00:18:25)
21
TYRON ALI:
Yes.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Mr. Chairman, how are you?
Do you
want to sit here?
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:
Okay.
Either one.
[engaged in phone conversation] All
right.
you can write something to talk about.
Well -- -- [inaudible] -- -- is part of it.
Maybe
-- [inaudible] --
Yeah, well, you have to find out, based
on what happened.
good.
But I'll call you back.
Sounds
(00:19:22)
10
TYRON ALI:
11
RON WATERS:
12
TYRON ALI:
13
RON WATERS:
Nice tie.
Thank you.
Long day?
Well, it's been a long couple days.
14
I went to, I told you, I went to Florida, took
15
the family to Florida.
16
TYRON ALI:
17
RON WATERS:
18
TYRON ALI:
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RON WATERS:
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TYRON ALI:
21
RON WATERS:
And -That's what you meant.

Yeah.
Oh.
Want a cup of tea?
Yeah.
Two.
(00:19:42)
I am going to give him mine.
Oh, no, man.
1
2
TYRON ALI:
No, no, no.
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:
WAITER:
What flavor do you have here?
This is a black tea, this is a
green tea, this is a green mint tea.

RON WATERS:
WAITER:
10
Uh-huh.
Orange, chamomile.
RON WATERS:
Chamomile is the one helps you go to
sleep, right?
12
WAITER:
13
RON WATERS:
14
I'm fine.
We carry this, right?
11
It is
fine.
It is fine.
Yeah.
I'll go with chamomile.
I am going
to sleep.
15
TYRON ALI:
Uh-oh.
16
Hey you.
17
FEMALE VOICE:
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TYRON ALI:
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FEMALE VOICE:
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TYRON ALI:
21
RON WATERS:
(00:20:11)
How are you?

Good.
How are you?
How are both of you?

Good.
Good, good.
(00:20:18)
I was supposed to go to sleep last
night.
But, unfortunately, I went in the house
when I got back, got right to work.
go to bed until midnight.
o'clock this morning to get started.
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:
10
You drove up here this morning?

Yes.
We were here since last night.
TYRON ALI:
Okay.
Yeah.
There are a couple of
interesting things going on.
12
God bless you.
13
RON WATERS:
14
TYRON ALI:
15
RON WATERS:
16
TYRON ALI:
17
Had to get up at 6
Yesterday.
11
So, I didn't
Thank you.
A couple of things going on.
Okay.
(00:20:55)
Let him finish with this.
you.
18
WAITER:
You are very welcome.
19
Can I get you gentlemen anything else?
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RON WATERS:
21
WAITER:
Do you have any honey?
Absolutely.
Thank
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
Can I get some honey, please?

Now, this is what I was told.
Let me see.
(00:21:13)
So, they are not going to
completely stop with the WAMs, some of them,
right.
sufficient funding to be able to get some projects
moved, the Department of Public Welfare --
RON WATERS:
10
11
TYRON ALI:
look.
12
13
And in order to look at a place that has
Oh, yeah?
Mmm-hmm.
That is where you need to
(00:21:39)
RON WATERS:
You know theyre moving a lot of
legislation -- [inaudible] --
14
TYRON ALI:
Mmm-hmm.
Well, there are a couple
15
of proposals that are going to come from the
16
right.
17
RON WATERS:
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WAITER:
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Can I offer you any appetizers?
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RON WATERS:
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WAITER:
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appetizers?
Okay.
Here you go.
You are welcome.
Thank you.
Can I start you off with any
1
2
RON WATERS:
the menu.
I don't know.
Uh, let me look at
Let me take a look at it.

TYRON ALI:
The welfare reform proposal that's
on the table, one of them is that if you have a
felony --
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
-- you are going to be subject
to random drug testing.
RON WATERS:
10
11
Right.
TYRON ALI:
Right.
That was from today.
Two is if you are receiving cash
assistance --
12
RON WATERS:
13
TYRON ALI:
Mmm-hmm --- that it would be seen as a loan.
14
If you have six months on a job, that job -- that
15
job, the employer, could send you a letter or send
16
the government a letter letting them know you have
17
been a steadfast employee, you have had no
18
problems.
19
actually be forgiven.
20
RON WATERS:
21
TYRON ALI:
And, so, the cash assistance could

(00:22:48)
So, you want them to pay it back?
If you are unable to prove you are
gainfully employed, I think that's what they were
looking at.
RON WATERS:
Huh.
I am trying to figure this
one out.
not a good employee, more than likely the employer
would fire you anyway.
Because if you, on the contrary, were
So, how would that be determined to be a
loan if you have to pay it back if you don't have
a job?
10
11
TYRON ALI:
things that -- (00:23:22)
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RON WATERS:
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TYRON ALI:
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RON WATERS:
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TYRON ALI:
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RON WATERS:
it's a blocked number.
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TYRON ALI:
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RON WATERS:
21
They make you keep your job.

-- would make you an admirable
employee.
15
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I guess you better do all the
I didn't.
Yeah.
Employee that is admired, anyway.
Yeah.
Let me see who is calling,
(00:23:30)
Mmm-hmm.
[engaged in a phone conversation]
Earlier, I know I got a phone call from a
10
blocked number. I didn't them, I couldn't get the voice.
They have this.
an unforgettable voice.
think so.
I am good.
Are you home?
dinner.
TYRON ALI:
I'm good, just having

Okay.
(00:24:11)
It's just been a long two days.
Were you up here with Mondesire?

RON WATERS:
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TYRON ALI:
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RON WATERS:
13
TYRON ALI:
15
So, can I call you back?
All right.
10
14
Yeah, well, I'm glad you
I'll call you back.
8
9
You know, like you got
Yeah.
What's wrong with Jerry, man?
Huh?
What is wrong with Jerry?
(00:24:27)
RON WATERS:
They had a rally today put together
16
by the NAACP, statewide rally.
17
had the turnout they, they wanted, or the
18
turnout they really need.
19
these guys' attention, man, you gotta fill the
20
steps up, you got to fill the third street up.
21
I don't think they
If you want to get
I seen the legislation, the crowd that
11
move legislation.
When the doctors -- [inaudible] -- --
health care, they came up here, that time they came up
man, I mean, thousands of doctors.
a doctor.
jacket.
You couldn't tell.
Maybe everybody wasnt
Anybody with a white
(00:25:07)
They look out there and see six, seven,
to ten thousand people, that gets their attention.
They think, we got to do something.
The motorcycle riders wanted to take
10
helmets off when they rode into Pennsylvania.
11
They had people Thursday all over the capitol,
12
over the capitol, they said to hell with this, we
13
surrender.
14
Pennsylvania anymore.
You don't got to wear your helmet in
15
TYRON ALI:
16
RON WATERS:
(00:25:33)
Mmm-hmm.
But it took a couple tries before
17
they got the numbers there.
18
you got to get if you want to get these guys'
19
attention (00:25:42)
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TYRON ALI:
21
That is the numbers
Mondesire historically
has never been a community organizer.
12
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
to split $10,000 up.
money.
approached me.
He is more of a community agitator.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Couple of things.
I got a -- I got
Cherelle doesn't have any
But --
RON WATERS:
They don't have any money in their
PAC?
10
TYRON ALI:
I keep going back to, if you would
11
form it, we would bring it.
12
some say in what happens.
13
14
(00:25:53)
Couple of other folks have already
8
9
Okay.
RON WATERS:
That way you can have
Yes, yeah.
Because, you know,
like --
15
TYRON ALI:
They already gave me ten grand.
16
now I am trying to figure out what to do with it.
17
That I can spend immediately, like, today,
18
tomorrow.
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RON WATERS:
So
That's why I said, it would be good
20
if the caucus. We never took care to develop their own PAC,
21
Black Caucus develop its own PAC.
We still dont have one.
13
1
2
TYRON ALI:
I can bring money, but I can't hold
a position there.
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS: Of getting somebody that know how to
8
9
10
I --
It would be a good idea, Ron.

It really would. Its just a matter
It would be a good idea.
do that.
The lady that runs my PAC, I can see if I can get
her to help.
11
TYRON ALI:
12
RON WATERS:
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TYRON ALI:
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RON WATERS:
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TYRON ALI:
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RON WATERS:
17
Oh, no.
Whats her name?

Her name's Paula.
Paula, she um
Not Paula Peoples?

Oh, heck no [inaudible].
Who?
Which Paula?
Um, the Paula Wright is my camp, is
my treasurer.
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TYRON ALI:
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RON WATERS:
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TYRON ALI:
Oh, okay.
Okay.
My campaign treasurer. (00:27:28)

Why don't you bring her to dinner
14
next time?
No?
(00:27:31)
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:
WAITER:
RON WATERS:
Well, we can -- I could always
(00:27:48).
Only problem with her --
You fellows decide on anything?

You know, umm -- [inaudible] --
These are starters.

TYRON ALI:
10
not the clam chowder.
11
dumping last time.
12
RON WATERS:
13
TYRON ALI:
14
RON WATERS:
15
Oh.
meet you home.
She is in Philly.
You liked the clam chowder, the,

The chicken and the
The soup?
Mmm-hmm.
Do you have any chicken and
dumpling soup?
16
TYRON ALI:
17
WAITER:
18
RON WATERS:
19
TYRON ALI:
20
WAITER:
21
TYRON ALI:
They do.
A bowl or cup?
Give me a -A bowl, yeah.
Two of them.
Two bowls?
Yeah, thanks.
(00:28:17)
15
What is her problem?
RON WATERS:
who she's campaign treasurer for.
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:
She -- I have am not the only one
first.
Who else is she for?

Tony Williams.
You know, he -- [inaudible] --
So I use his same treasurer.
good at what she does.
she may know what I am talking about.
10
sure -- [inaudible] --
11
12
TYRON ALI:
She is
But if you talk to her,

I am not
(00:28:43)
Okay.
Any word on Vince?
You know
I got to take something back home?
13
RON WATERS:
14
TYRON ALI:
15
She was with him
Let me call him, man.

They actually did make up my cards,
finally.
16
RON WATERS:
Oh did they?
Good. I think what
17
screwed, well not screwed it up, but what made them
18
cautious was when they saw that badge you was wearing.
19
20
21
TYRON ALI:
Tell Vince it's simply lobbying ID,
all right.
RON WATERS:
I know.
I know.
But they, you know
22
them guys get nervous.
Because there are so many rules
23
and regulations when youre dealin with that.
16
But after he had a chance to talk to
you, especially in front of other people, he had
to be real careful.
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:
I understand that.
walk away, how he got real familiar --
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:
9
10
Later on, you see after they all
how he normally is.

(00:30:03)
Yes.
-- and opened up.
Thats, thats
[background conversations]
[placing a phone call] His voicemail is full.
11
-- [inaudible] -- I know he goes down the shore a lot.
12
-- [inaudible] -- How you doing, Vince? This is
13
Ron Waters calling.
14
cell phone, but your voicemail came on and your
15
mailbox is full.
16
Tried to call you on your
So, I just wanted to leave a message on
17
your office phone.
Please give me a call when you
18
get a chance, 267-246-6185.
19
(00:31:17)
Thank you.
20
TYRON ALI:
And I tell you something.
21
other piece is this:
If we can, if we can look
22
at putting together an effort to deal with Vince,
The
17
deal with him, whatever he wants, because I have
to bring, look, they sent me up here.
been six months.
stuff together.
I have been trying to put some

I have been somewhat successful.
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
home.
Right.
But we need to bring some stuff
People need jobs.
8
9
It has
RON WATERS:
What was the thing about the, the,
with the traffic court?
10
TYRON ALI:
You said that --
That, he had mentioned traffic
11
court.
12
your relationship like with Thomasine Tynes?
13
Now, I don't know, maybe you can, whats
RON WATERS:
Cool, but whats going on with her
14
and, what's going on with her?
15
TYRON ALI:
16
-- [inaudible] --
I don't know anything about
traffic court.
17
RON WATERS:
(00:33:20)
[placing a phone call]
18
Good evening, Your Honor, this is Representative Ron Waters
19
calling.
20
are planning on having, dealing with the duties and
21
responsibilities that come with an office. Many times
22
Im trying to talk to you about an event that we
people vote for a person, but they have no idea what the
18
--[inaudible] -- the traffic court is one of the offices
we wanted to have someone on the panel to discuss
the duties and responsibilities on the daily
activities of your Honor with that office.
like to ask you about something else, too.
Can you please give me a call at
267-246-6185.
8
9
Thank you.
Plus, Id
[ends phone call]
I wanted to get in contact with her about

this other thing, too.
I like to sit down.
10
like, I don't even want to talk to her on the
11
phone.
I don't
12
TYRON ALI:
No, of course not.
13
RON WATERS:
14
TYRON ALI:
15
RON WATERS:
16
I already found out what she can't do it
That's why I left the -Of course not.

-- [inaudible] --.
17
because shes a city -- she can't do things on
18
election time.
19
election time, even though she is not a candidate.
20
I don't know why that is.
21
She's barred from doing things on
TYRON ALI:
(00:34:35)
Well, Christine Solomon seems to be
19
a shoe-in for traffic court, not Marnie.
Marnie.
McLaughlin, and Sean Kennedy.
actually end up on the African American, as the
African American frontrunner.
Then you've got Foglietta (phonetic),
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
10
Okay.
None of the bad guys are going to
12
secure --
14
RON WATERS:
15
TYRON ALI:
17
RON WATERS:
years or something.
19
people that got it.
21
He got number four slot.
That is
You talking about Marvin?

No, not Marvin.
Vincent.
No, I haven't even heard that name
floating around.
18
20
(00:34:54)
He is a good guy.
get it, like, Johnson?
TYRON ALI:
CP court?
Yeah.
RON WATERS:
13
Dane Gray might
On what?
11
16
Not
Well, he was an attorney for 28

He is one of the 40-some
He got a really good position on the

ballot, number four.
It could help him.
But I am not
20
going to be getting any help from anybody else.
(00:35:27)
3
4
TYRON ALI:
See, the thing about it is, I would
really like to give you ten grand.
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
Right.
But I want to be able to substantiate
it, because I don't want anybody saying to me,
hey, we haven't gotten anything yet, you know?
RON WATERS:
10
TYRON ALI:
Yeah, I know.
I know.
The sooner you can get it to me,
11
the sooner I can get it to you, you know?
12
(00:35:45)
13
RON WATERS:
I got to talk to Vince.
See what -
14
[inaudible] with Thomasine I have to sit down and ask her
15
about her collection process and how good is it
16
doing, and is there room for another, another
17
collection agency to help clean up a lot of the outstanding
18
debt.
19
See what she says.

TYRON ALI:
And you know what?
20
worth her while.
21
run, I will make sure we look after her.
We'll make it
I mean, when she is ready to
21
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
know, you help me.
helped me.
Ron, you know how this goes.

You know.
Thank you.
RON WATERS:
call me back.
something else.
Okay.
You have always
She'll call me back, though.
(00:36:44)
See, the thing about it is, if you
10
could, there is no way at all the, you don't
11
think there is any way at all you could talk to
12
Paula, Paula Wright to get the PAC going?
14
RON WATERS:
takes.
TYRON ALI:
16
RON WATERS:
17
TYRON ALI:
I'll ask her what it
Can I give you a suggestion?

What's that?
(00:37:09)
Have her, is she also a staffer,
or no?
19
RON WATERS:
20
TYRON ALI:
21
Oh, sure.
I mean, anybody --
15
18
She'll
I talked to her last month about
TYRON ALI:
13
You
No, she is not a staffer.

Okay.
Have her do the research,
send you a memo, and give me a copy of it.
And
22
then I'll tell you what the initial --
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:
Okay.
What the initial could be.
Okay.
Then we'll just start it up, man.
Yeah.
will be running.
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:
Mmm-hmm.
10
TYRON ALI: Yeah.
11
RON WATERS:
12
Because next year all of us
It would be nice if I could find a
way to secure some, some -- [inaudible] --
(00:37:41)
13
TYRON ALI:
14
RON WATERS:
15
TYRON ALI:
16
How much help do you think -- I told you
17
something I was told.
18
RON WATERS:
-- [inaudible] --- for all members.

Yes.
Yes.
Cherelle has no, no money.

I know.
19
I don't understand that.
20
committees that raise money.
21
was back on.
I don't understand that.
She is on -- she is on
Committees I wish I
- [inaudible] --
23
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:
Your Honor.
right?
5
6
I'm all right, baby.
TYRON ALI:
How you doing?
You all
See if we can meet her on Friday.
(00:38:17)
7
8
Mmm-hmm.
RON WATERS:
Yeah.
Oh, okay.
Wow.
(00:39:40)
Okay, okay, okay.

Wow.
Yeah.
Wow.
How do they keep looking
10
over you, baby?
11
time?
12
President Judge, then they going to separate it,
13
make one be Administrative Judge, one be the
14
President Judge.
I know.
Yeah.
You -- I don't know.
Second
Then when you got your chance to be
(00:40:01)
15
Okay.
Okay.
16
Right.
17
(00:41:20)
Okay.
Mmm-hmm.
Yeah, mmm-hmm.
Okay.
You think they might make
18
some stink?
You think they might make some stink
19
to try to slander his name, or something like
20
that?
(00:41:30)
21
(00:41:38)
Uh-Huh.
Okay.
Okay.
Okay.
22
(00:42:52)
What are you trying to lose
24
some weight or something?
though.
old.
Oh.
You ain't old
What are you talking about?
You are a young lady.
(00:43:47)
You are not
Yeah.
You're not retiring any time,
you forced to retire when you turn 70 there?
2014 you'll retire?
What?
like, what, 66, 67?
Wait a minute.
9
10
Oh, you'll be 70 then.
Okay.
Are you telling me you are;
(00:44:22)
Yeah.
Easy.
You look
(00:44:42)
Don't say that.
great.
11
I am
12
drinking some tea right now as we speak.
Maybe I
13
ought to put this out and give me a shot of
14
liquor.
15
MALE VOICE:
How are you doing?
16
MALE VOICE:
How, how are you two doing
18
RON WATERS:
Mmm-hmm.
19
(00:45:15)
Yeah, yeah.
20
(00:45:35)
Mmm-Hmm.
17
21
tonight?
like that.
He stayed small.
Drink liquor.
Yeah, yeah.
That was my father

He was an alcoholic.
25
He drank his liquor.
he --
His only problem was that
TYRON ALI:
Change the two cups.
RON WATERS:
Oh, he died in '86.
Change them.
You there?
But he was -- he
was shucks, he was about sixty, about your age, come
to think about it.
67.
He must have been about 68,
He was born in '29.
So, that would have
10
made him, no, he wasn't, heck, he wasn't even,
11
shucks.
12
died in June, June of '86.
No, no, longer than
13
that.
I got it wrong.
14
died in '96.
15
father ten years too soon.
He's been dead now for 15 years.
25.
16
Wait a minute.
He been dead 15 years.
21 years onto my age.
18
the math.
19
60s.
20
21
All right.
Whatever.
So, add
However you do
So, he was in his 60s.
He was in his
(00:46:42)
Okay.
drink?
He
I killed my
He was 21 years older than me.
17
He
What do you drink?
Drink gin and tonic.
What is your
Oh, that's easy.
26
1
2
TYRON ALI:
at the Palm.
Let's take her out to dinner Friday
(00:47:04)
RON WATERS:
Judge, there is a couple things.
One thing, I don't know, I think my staff did
reach out to you about, you know, the black caucus
was going host a couple, well, not a couple.
One event dealing with the duties and
responsibilities of the office.
You know, so many people had no idea the
10
person who they are voting for in the office that
11
they assigned them to.
12
to me for municipal problems, not state problems
13
or federal problems.
14
I get so many people come
And they don't know what their council
15
person does, they don't know what the state rep
16
does.
17
forum dealing with the responsibilities of the
18
office.
19
20
21
We want to put together a big informational
And with radio station WRD.

You know they let your girl go from
there. (00:47:53)
TYRON ALI:
Farrah.
27
1
2
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:
They do.
out for her.
Okay.
They do.
Thank you.
(00:48:35)
Yeah, yeah.
She is really a great person.
Okay.
Okay.
(00:49:20)
WAITER:
Gentlemen, are you ready to
order your main course?
11
TYRON ALI:
12
RON WATERS:
13
TYRON ALI:
You know what you want?

-- [inaudible] -I am going to get the chicken like
I always do.
15
RON WATERS:
16
TYRON ALI:
17
RON WATERS:
Okay.
18
RON WATERS:
Yeah, that's right.
19
Yeah.
We are going to try to look
14
I said, she is
the voice of that radio station.
10
It was terrible.
The chicken?
I think Babette's behind you.
(00:49:33)
There must be
some vegetarian food here if she is eating here.
20
TYRON ALI:
21
RON WATERS:
Salad.
Just a salad, okay.
I know her,
28
she is strictly -- she is vegan, as a matter of
fact.
(00:49:50)
3
4
Umm -- what you said, chicken, is that

what you got the last time?
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
Mmm-hmm.
Yeah, that work.
The rotisserie.
Well, did you want
the Atlantic cod?
RON WATERS:
No, no.
Chicken's fine.
10
TYRON ALI:
11
RON WATERS:
12
crab cakes, it was really good.
13
14
That was good.
WAITER:
Okay.
Last time -- came here one time the
Oh, yeah.
They have a crab
cake melt.
15
RON WATERS:
16
WAITER:
What is that?
It is on rye bread and they
17
don't fry the bread, but they put it in a pan with
18
some butter and it gets really crispy.
19
saut the crab cake and top it with coleslaw, make
20
it into a sandwich.
21
crab cakes.
Then they
It is really good if you like
(00:50:34).
29
RON WATERS:
cake Reuben.
coleslaw.
They put -- what is the stuff on there?

TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
10
WAITER:
Sauerkraut.
Yeah.
That sounds good.
I would
I'll stick with the chicken.
fries?
RON WATERS:
13
TYRON ALI:
14
RON WATERS:
16
No, sauerkraut.
Would you like it with the parm
12
15
Pastrami.
like to try that.
11
Crab
A Rueben they put coleslaw -- not
Sound like a Rueben almost.
really need.
vegetables.
18
with the --
Bring that for him too.

And the vegetables.
That's what I
You got vegetables?
WAITER:
17
Yeah.
I can get you some sauted
Like, the ones that come with the --
19
RON WATERS:
20
WAITER:
21
RON WATERS:
Okay.
-- chicken.
Yeah, some vegetables.
30
WAITER:
RON WATERS:
Is that instead of the fries?
Thanks.
WAITER:
TYRON ALI:
Yeah, instead of the fries.
vegetables.
You're welcome.
You should eat the fries and the
(00:51:19)
RON WATERS: --[inaudible]-- this waste.
(00:51:28) waste.
state reps over there, for the 182nd legislative
10
district.
11
12
13
There's one of my favorite
Oh, absolutely.
good.
Yeah, okay.
I am doing

(00:51:59):
That's why I thought you
14
would be a good -- a good person, because we don't
15
want to use candidates, even incumbents who are
16
currently running.
17
if we used someone who is not running, and someone
18
who really knows the full responsibilities.
19
we couldn't even think of anybody else for that
20
position but you.
21
No.
We thought it would be better
And
(00:52:19)
Wait a minute.
We want to look
Go to
31
good after this is over with.
Mmm-hmm.
(00:52:54)
kind of money.
got those tickets paid.
Oh, yeah.
(00:53:12)
Yeah.
Oh, well, he can probably,
he, I think, do he have any kids?
is single.
either.
I know he
I don't think he have any kids,
Okay.
Yeah, yeah.
Oh, he's being
playboy from the bench, huh?
11
12
That's how he
Yeah.
10
Oh, did he?
That's her saying make that
Okay.
(00:53:53)
Who?
He don't.
Oh, is she retiring?
13
(00:54:24)
A SUV Porsche?
money you guys making?
15
office, you know what I mean.
16
bought a $100,000 Benz.
17
bought the Porsche.

Okay.
Okay.
19
Oh, okay.
20
lot of people are.
21
They happy.
Who?
Okay.
14
18
He don't.
What kind of
I am in the wrong dang gone

You said, secretary
No, no, she, Green
Okay.
Right.
Right.
You don't know how many people are.

Yes, they are.
They are.
Oh.
A
32
(00:55:33)
The only reason he hasn't
been in trouble now is because for some reason he
keeps getting out of the stuff they get him in.
They got him in the DeNaples thing there and that
casino out in Mount Airy.
got caught in that thing with Veon and DeWeese.
get caught up in a lot of stuff.
way, he comes out of it.
before the grand jury, even though he's been,
10
okay. Okay.
Okay.
11
Well, so be it.
12
Okay.
13
(00:57:18)
Then in another, he
Some kind of
Even though he been
Okay.
Right.
He
Okay.
Okay.
Okay.
(00:56:24)
(00:56:49)
Does she ever a, Tonya told
14
me that she used to get high, I guess in chambers or
15
something like that.
16
Right.
17
18
(00:57:51)
doing it?
19
that.
21
that up?
Right.
Right.
They were both out there
Okay.
(00:58:05)
20
Right.
Yeah, I remember you said
They have, did the newspapers ever pick

Or was that ever talked about?
Because
33
that was a disgrace for this young guy.
You old
enough to be his mother.
saying something like that to you, a black woman.
Really, his grandmother,
(00:58:32)
Okay.
Okay.
(00:58:59)
Okay.
You know, I would
like to know if I can meet with you one day later
on in the week, or something in town.
Harrisburg now.
9
10
But maybe one --
TYRON ALI:
Could you check on our dinner?
(00:59:21)
11
12
I am in
RON WATERS:
You mean you staying overnight?
Oh, good.
13
TYRON ALI:
14
RON WATERS:
Okay.
Great.
(00:59:35)
Well, we'll get together.
15
get together next week.
16
fine.
17
eat?
Okay.
What you like to eat?
Okay.
That's
What you like to
What is your special meal?
18
(00:59:50)
You got to eat -- oh, they
19
got great restaurants up here.
20
me know what you want to eat.
21
they got a place that got you a drink, too, okay.
So, you just let

But I'll make sure
We'll
34
(01:00:13)
That's all good.
when you come up.
Okay.
Okay.
All right.
We'll get together next week
We were planning on having it next week.
But with the radio station, it's running out of
time now.
12th.
election is on the following Tuesday.
it is on the 17th.
So they are looking at doing it on the
12th of May.
Doing it down at -- at -- the

Yeah.
No,
We just want to -- it is an
10
informational-type of forum, where we are going let
11
people know --
12
(01:00:52)
13
Sixteen twenty.
14
right.
15
minute.
Okay.
Okay.
Okay.
I got you.
Let me write that down.
Great.
Okay.
All
Hold on one
16
(01:01:24 ) All right.
17
Six eight six sixteen twenty-one.
18
(01:01:30)
Okay.
I got it.
Okay.
I got you.
19
will contact -- who do I talk to there?
20
Okay.
21
know.
All right.
Good enough.
Okay.
I'll let them
35
Thank you so much.
care, too.
bye-bye.
All right.
See you next week.
Okay.
You take
All right,
All right.
Next week. Shes gonna [inaudible] --
TYRON ALI:
Good. She'll be here when?
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:
like that.
10
11
-- [inaudible] -Sure.
But, you know, I would actually
Thats fine with me.

TYRON ALI:
Yeah.
You know what?
Find out --
shes a vegetarian or something else?
12
13
RON WATERS:
a diet.
No, no.
She eats meat.
Shes on
She said she put on too much weight.
14
TYRON ALI:
We'll take her next door.
15
take her to the Golden Sheaf.
16
You know so we can sit down and actually talk.
17
Because I got to get some things going.
18
(01:02:35)
19
Tuesday?
We'll
Thats nice.
But getting back to this PAC situation,
20
I don't want to let this go.
Look, heres the deal:
21
If I tell our folks I need ten to start it and
36
keep pushing 10, 15, 10, 15, we'll get $50,000 in
there within three months.
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
Mmm-hmm.
Without raising an eyebrow.
know what I mean?
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
Whatever we get -- [inaudible] -Yeah.

-- [inaudible] --.
The thing about it is, Ron, these
10
folks have no leader, man.
11
are the guy.
12
RON WATERS:
13
TYRON ALI:
You got to be the guy.
You know, you are the guy.
too many guys -- I mean, with all due respect, you
15
don't really have a lot of folks like me who've
16
got the capacity, the capability, the know-how, to
17
put it together, to put the money together.
18
has always been me.
19
RON WATERS:
20
TYRON ALI:
You
Yeah, I am.
14
21
You
And not
That
You know that.

Right.
You know.
that to the other folks.
The logistics, I leave
37
RON WATERS:
her office tomorrow.
up here next week.
Because she is going to be

So --
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
Let me make sure I call
You know what day next week?

Tuesday.
Let's keep in touch over the next
few days.
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
Okay.
You know, just to make sure we get
10
that.
I'll have my folks make the reservation and
11
whatever else she needs.
12
talk to her. (01:04:05)
13
RON WATERS:
14
TYRON ALI:
So we can sit down and
Monday -- Sundays -Hey.
Just to let you know, FYI,
15
Darwin Beauvais became a partner at Zarwin Baum
16
Monday.
17
18
19
RON WATERS:
What does that mean?
Partner at Zarwin Baum?

TYRON ALI:
20
fundraiser.
21
of staff --
Who is that?
What are they?
The law firm that handled Jewell's
Darwin, who used to be Jannie's chief
38
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
lobbying group.
Oh.
Okay.
-- he is now a partner there in the
It is him, Sharif Street, David
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:
Because David Davids gonna be the council-at-
9
10
large, right?
Okay.
Just an FYI.
Okay.
And he is a friend.
(1:04:45)
That is the guy that Toy --
remember Toy --
11
TYRON ALI:
12
RON WATERS:
13
TYRON ALI:
14
RON WATERS:
15
TYRON ALI:
Andy Toy.
He running for -at-large too.
He don't have the party backing?
No.
Brady and Jamie Fleet were up
16
here.
17
the party endorsed Danny Savage, and then they got
18
Matos removed as ward leader because Savage's dad
19
is a federal judge.
20
21
The -- the thing about it is, strangely,
RON WATERS:
Yeah, but I heard they was talking
about that race thing, how she beat him badly the
39
last election -- [inaudible] -- 45 points or something.
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:
Honestly, he didn't try.
(1:05:32)
Now, what did she do to piss the
people off so much?
TYRON ALI:
Maria is all about her husband,
Tomas.
really don't know -- they don't know their place.
Tomas Sanchez is the director -- the cultural
director, I believe, at Temple University.
10
Tomas is linked up with some folks that
He
thinks he is God Almighty.
11
And what Maria has been able to do is
12
sort of bring together some of the non-profits,
13
like APM, Espranza, I forget the name of the
14
other folks on Kensington Avenue.
15
large non-profits that are run by folks like Dr.
16
Jesus Ciera (phonetic), Rose Grant, and a couple
17
other folks.
18
But it is very
The problem is, these folks don't vote.
19
So, she is literally spinning wheels in mud.
20
(01:06:26)
21
RON WATERS:
Wow.
40
1
2
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:
a full term.
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:
committees.
that?
It does.
Especially for her doing
(01:06:36)
Mmm-hmm.
I mean, she sits on the special
She did a full -- she beat -- who was
TYRON ALI:
10
RON WATERS:
11
TYRON ALI:
12
For her not to be supported
by the party says a lot.
3
4
Yeah.
Marnie Almond.
Yeah.
Yeah.
(01:06:49)
It was her, Marnie, Danny
Savage.
13
RON WATERS:
14
TYRON ALI:
15
RON WATERS:
Who was the incumbent?

Before Maria, I don't recall.
Was that the guy who went to jail?
16
There was the guy that went to jail.
The one that
17
cried -- the probe came out, he was there crying
18
in City Hall.
They had to get Bob Brady to walk him out.
19
TYRON ALI:
20
RON WATERS:
21
TYRON ALI:
Who, Mariano?
Yeah, yeah.
It could be.
It could be.
41
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
man.
Could be Rick Mariano.

-- [inaudible] --
Could be.
(01:07:25)
There is a lot going on at home,
There is a lot going on at home.
6
7
He had that.
RON WATERS:
There is a lot of elections coming
up.
You doing anything with Cindy Bass?
TYRON ALI:
10
RON WATERS:
Robert Fence is.

Okay.
I am sure he is.
11
But Cindy and I, I mean, Chaka and I, we don't
12
really get along.
13
RON WATERS:
14
TYRON ALI:
You know.
Okay.
I like Cindy.
But, you know, we
15
are not -- you know, I am -- excuse me one second.
16
(01:08:15)
17
(01:08:45)
18
RON WATERS:
19
20
21
This place must be safe to eat if
Babette Josephs' here.

BABETTE JOSEPHS:
these vegetables.
It takes a long time to eat all
42
RON WATERS:
You go swimming today?
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
(01:09:13)
WAITER:
I'm just glad -- (1:09:03)
Here you go, gentlemen.
careful, this is hot.
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
WAITER:
TYRON ALI:
Okay.
Be
I got it.
Thank you so much, Aaron.
You are so very welcome.
10
RON WATERS:
11
TYRON ALI:
12
RON WATERS:
13
TYRON ALI:
14
RON WATERS:
Do you want a piece of this?

No.
Are you sure?
I am full, man.
Okay.
(01:09:34)
I had -- my staff had went out, and
15
not knowing we were going to end early, bought me
16
a platter of this Jamaican food, ox tails, rice
17
and beans, cads.
18
This is just too much.
19
RON WATERS:
20
WAITER:
21
RON WATERS:
(01:10:01)
What are these here?
That is zucchini.
Oh, okay.
(01:10:11)
43
TYRON ALI:
The thing about it -- the thing
that really, really surprised me, I'll tell you
something.
because it was very public that they did not
endorse her, of course.
Is the way in which they did it,
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
Mmm-hmm.
She had no prior knowledge that's
what was going to happen.
The fact that -- well, Danny Savage is
10
actually acting like he wants the job, so that is
11
helpful.
12
But, you know, Ron, I'll tell you
13
something.
At this point it is every man for
14
himself, I am helping those who help me.
15
RON WATERS:
16
TYRON ALI:
17
RON WATERS:
18
know him.
Right.
You know.
Van Sant, I am trying to think if I
He wasn't -- (1:10:48)
19
TYRON ALI:
20
RON WATERS:
21
TYRON ALI:
You know him.

He work at the Parking Authority?
Umm, no.
44
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:
I know that name though.

Dad's a judge.
Okay.
You sure you don't want a piece?
I can't even finish this over here.
Hopefully I can bag this stuff up.
TYRON ALI:
Paula tomorrow.
before the end of the month.
Let's get this PAC situated
RON WATERS:
12
TYRON ALI:
14
I guarantee I can
squeeze out a couple of bucks to get it started.
11
13
(01:11:15).
The other thing is -- call
10
(01:11:01)
I'll call her now.

Call her now.
That's right.
(01:11:37)
Tell her you have somebody.
Im
15
willing to put in -- we'll put in, like, five
16
grand right away.
17
get it started.
18
RON WATERS:
19
TYRON ALI:
20
21
Just to
-- [inaudible] -We'll take care of her, too.
She
doesn't need to tell Tony anything.

RON WATERS:
No, she don't have to know about
45
this.
Just want to ask her how to get this started.
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:
Okay.
She don't have to run it.
just tell us what it takes.
up -- [inaudible] - how to do it.
6
7
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
10
RON WATERS:
11
TYRON ALI:
Tell her you'll give her a couple
Okay.
And I'll give it to you.
Okay.
Nothing big, couple of bucks, you
know.
13
RON WATERS:
I am looking for her underneath her
14
maiden -- her married name.
15
maiden name.
16
17
TYRON ALI:
Do I know her?
What is her married
name?
RON WATERS:
19
maiden name is Smith.

TYRON ALI:
21
22
I got her listed under her
No wonder I cant find it.
18
20
Cause she had to set mine
bucks to take care, to set it up.
12
She can
Her married name is Wright.
Oh.
I don't know her.
You know who is nice man, Leslie?

loves you.
She
Her
46
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:
wonderful.
8
9
She is good people, man.
No, you hear what I am saying to
you?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, okay.
[on the phone] Hi, Paula.
How you doing?
Oh, that's good.
Paula, quick question.
How much
trouble is it to set up one of those - a PAC
10
like you set up for me?
11
set them up?
12
Okay.
How much trouble is it to
So, now, so are those forms, are those the
13
kind of forms you can just download?
14
remember.
Been so long.
15
TYRON ALI:
16
RON WATERS:
17
I am
You might not
Okay.
Tell her to do the -- [inaudible] -Okay.
Okay.
Okay.
I wanted to
set up a PAC for the Black Caucus.
18
No, I just wanted to -- it was something I
19
thought about before and I never followed through
20
on it.
21
I need to follow through.
And now I am thinking about it again.
So I think
Maybe if you could --
47
if you could help set it up, I could give you
something for it.
Hell yeah.
Yeah.
Well, we will, if we had a
PAC.
I mean, people are ready to give us, umm, money in
the PAC, if we had it, in the event.
Mmm-hmm.
Okay.
All right.
Okay.
(01:15:44.)
Okay.
Okay.
Okay.
Okay.
All right.
No.
Okay.
Yeah.
Okay, dear.
Bye-Bye.
10
She said she'll do it.
11
TYRON ALI:
12
RON WATERS:
13
TYRON ALI:
14
RON WATERS: Well, I said, Ill give you a little
15
Mmm-hmm.
Now, look --
something [inaudible].
16
TYRON ALI:
17
RON WATERS:
18
TYRON ALI:
19
She'll do it?
Now listen.
Uh-huh.
Here's the thing.
Today's the
26th.
20
RON WATERS:
21
TYRON ALI:
Mmm-hmm.
I got to close out my year ending,
48
my quarter, Friday.
If she can set it up between tomorrow
and Thursday, and she can do it -- all she has to
do is download the forms, figure out who the
secretary is and who the treasurer is.
your money Friday.
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:
10
TYRON ALI:
11
RON WATERS:
12
TYRON ALI:
13
away.
RON WATERS:
15
TYRON ALI:
16
RON WATERS:
17
TYRON ALI:
Make sure she does it, Ron.

Okay.
So I don't have to -Okay.
I don't have to move that money
Okay.
Okay.
Okay.
It would make no sense losing it
when we could definitely use it.
19
RON WATERS:
20
TYRON ALI:
21
Okay.
You understand what I am saying?
14
18
I can get
Mmm-hmm.
Tony is going to be, like, wheres
Ron getting all that money?
49
1
2
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
8
9
Right.
That way people can start looking to you to do some other

things.
6
7
I didn't ask him
where he got his from.
3
4
Don't matter.
RON WATERS:
Mmm-hmm.
Its something that we
dont have - I dont see why we dont have one especially since many people dont give to the caucus,
the Black Caucus members especially.
[Inaudible] the
10
members they complain about that because they look at
11
these campaign reports and they see the same people that
11
give to them, give differently to other people.
12
TYRON ALI:
13
RON WATERS:
14
TYRON ALI:
15
We got to have our own PAC.

That's right.
And you should be
the person in charge of it.
16
RON WATERS:
17
TYRON ALI:
18
Yeah.
Mmm-hmm.
Rightfully so.
You are the
chairman.
19
RON WATERS:
20
TYRON ALI:
21
RON WATERS:
Uh-huh.
With all the right ties.
Mmm-hmm.
50
TYRON ALI:
You have ties to the community,
ties to different organizations.
You have been there long.
You know the drill.
4
5
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:
Long enough.
I am full.
(01:17:28)
This is excellent, this
food.
TYRON ALI:
10
RON WATERS:
11
TYRON ALI:
12
Mmm-hmm.
You like that?

It really is.
Why don't you -- you don't drink,
do you?
13
RON WATERS:
Yeah, sure.
14
TYRON ALI:
15
RON WATERS:
16
TYRON ALI:
Definitely have to do that.
17
(01:17:52)
I, umm -- the other thing,
One night we got to do that, man.

Okay.
18
Cruz -- we are going to have to sit him down
19
because he has a proposal to install video
20
surveillance in day care centers.
21
Here is the question, who's paying for
51
that?
2
3
RON WATERS:
I mean, the tapes are constantly running.
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:
Yeah, somebody has to pay for that.
Right.
(01:18:24)
Watching what -- I guess what's
going on with the kids --
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
Mmm-hmm.
-- and day care providers.
And the legislation, as it stands
10
now, there is no requirement of that, to that
11
effect.
12
RON WATERS:
You know, you got to be careful
13
with some of those bills.
14
people out of business.
15
TYRON ALI:
16
RON WATERS:
What that does, it puts
Well -Because the day care centers that I
17
know of, they having a hard time making ends meet
18
now.
19
TYRON ALI:
20
RON WATERS:
21
Mmm-hmm.
People can't afford it.
They would have to raise the price.

-- [inaudible] --
52
1
2
TYRON ALI:
Folks like us, we can afford it.
The white side can afford it.
VOICE:
RON WATERS:
Hello.
The plane landed at umm -- umm,
about 7:30.
first before we came home.
8:30 or 9 o'clock.
I don't know, we went to the market
Why?
10
11
(01:19:08)
Layla.
Layla.
Bye-bye.
12
Yes.
Got home, I guess,
Why are you asking me that?

Your mom there?
Bye-bye.
All right.
(01:20:10)
Umm, probably close to 9 o'clock.
13
By the time we went to the market -- we went to
14
the market.
15
So.
No, we did not.
It couldn't have been.
16
The plane didn't land until almost 7:30.
17
the airport probably about 8 o'clock.
18
you know,
19
No, she didn't.
20
We left
Because,
you have to go check -- no, she didn't.

Okay.
Now she got to do what?
You got to get something else besides
21
that.
You can't -- she can't do it on the
22
computer.
You can do it on the computer.
All
53
right.
(01:21:18)
Dear, can you pack this please?
delicious.
full.
I am glad I ordered it.
WAITER:
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:
This is
But I am
I am glad you enjoyed it.

Yes.
Thanks, Aaron.
(01:21:26)
No, we did not, Layla.
didn't land until almost 7:30.
The plane
Then we had to go
10
and walk from the plane all the way over to where
11
we had to pick up the baggage.
12
So, we had to walk all the way to the other -- out
13
the airport, all the way to pick up the baggage.
14
Remember?
15
Remember that?
Then we had to drive from the airport.
16
Okay.
That might be when we got in the car at the
17
airport.
18
had to drive home.
19
the super market.
20
to get some tea and you got those chips, then we
21
came home.
So we still wasn't home yet.

Okay.
We still
Then we had to go to
Remember?
Then we went to Wawa
All that stuff takes time.
54
Okay.
All right, baby.
All right.
So, you lost
the bet.
calculate time and space a little bit better,
okay?
you later.
You will.
You got to learn how to
You will.
You happy to see your mom?
give her your -- her cup?
Why not?
okay?
10
All right.
All right.
sweetheart.
I'll talk to
Okay.
You
That still in there?
Give it to her tomorrow,
All right.
Good night,
(01:22:56)
11
TYRON ALI:
12
RON WATERS:
13
Okay.
Is that your nine-year-old?

Yeah.
She wore me out in Florida.
I did everything --
14
TYRON ALI:
15
RON WATERS:
Who did you take?

I took her, and the old lady took
16
her kids.
She took -- she has a 14-year-old,
17
13-year-old, and took my daughter -- two of my
18
daughters.
(01:23:28)
19
TYRON ALI:
20
RON WATERS:
21
TYRON ALI:
Oh, that was nice.

I just wanted to make sure -I did remember you telling me last
55
Wednesday you were taking a couple days.
2
3
WAITER:
look at the dessert menu?
4
5
You gentlemen want to take a
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
WAITER:
12
RON WATERS:
13
TYRON ALI:
14
RON WATERS:
15
TYRON ALI:
16
RON WATERS:
Do you want a drink, man?

Yeah.
Have one.
Let me -- let me have a
All right.
What is that called?
Chivas Regal.
Regal, okay.
Yeah.
That's --
Give me -- do you have any
Riesling?
18
19
He had
Hell, no.
Chivas on the rocks, please.
11
17
He probably needs it.
a long day.
10
Yes.
WAITER:
Yes, we have Firestone
Riesling.
20
RON WATERS:
21
WAITER:
Okay, that will work.
Okay.
Do you want me to take that for
56
you?
TYRON ALI:
You know what?
too.
I'll have a Riesling,
Let me have the -- let me see here.
5
6
Yes, thank you.
RON WATERS:
What, they got more than one
Riesling?
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
They have quite a few, actually.

I'll take my glasses out then.
Which one do you want?
10
RON WATERS:
11
TYRON ALI:
12
really good, if you want that.
13
RON WATERS:
14
TYRON ALI:
15
RON WATERS:
16
TYRON ALI:
17
(01:24:16)
Oh -What would you like?
This is
What is it?
The chocolate towers.
Oh, yeah.
That's good.
They have a raspberry
cheesecake that's pretty good, too.
18
RON WATERS:
19
last time I was here.
20
TYRON ALI:
21
RON WATERS:
I think I had that.
I had that the
That was good.

Yeah.
Do you want that again?
Coconut cake.
Brown sugar --
57
that's various -- yeah, I am going to get the
cheesecake.
3
4
TYRON ALI:
Can we have two of the raspberry
cheesecakes as well for here.
WAITER:
TYRON ALI:
Ma'am, please stop working so hard.
8
9
Absolutely.
Thank you.
(01:24:53)
She
is going to have a baby soon.

RON WATERS:
I see that.
10
They say walking is good for the baby.
11
FEMALE VOICE:
Yeah.
I am actually told
12
working out is good for the baby as long as I
13
don't work too hard.
14
RON WATERS:
15
FEMALE VOICE:
16
There you go.

Which is what I do.
keep very good track of the heart rate.
17
RON WATERS:
How many months are you?
18
FEMALE VOICE:
19
RON WATERS:
20
TYRON ALI:
21
RON WATERS:
Seven-and-a-half.
Wow.
Doesn't she look like -Wow.
58
TYRON ALI:
Yes.
RON WATERS:
I have a lady in my office who is
four months pregnant and she is way bigger than
you are.
having twins or something.
know, I got so big so fast.
7
8
I told her, I said, you have to be
But you look great.

that very well.
RON WATERS:
Yeah, thank you.

Yeah, good for the baby.
11
walk right into your life.
12
Hit the ground running, man.
13
TYRON ALI:
14
time.
15
just left.
You are carrying
That walking is paying off.
FEMALE VOICE:
10
16
She said, yeah, I
Baby will
It be like, here I am.

(01:25:54)
I see them at the day care all the
She -- I think she just left, yeah.
She
(01:26:01)
RON WATERS:
Now that, you know, that -
17
[inaudible]--one, he comes up with some crazy stuff
18
sometimes.
19
TYRON ALI:
Well, I tried to reach him.
20
you know, he's such a unique individual.
21
times, I have difficulty deciphering what he is
22
trying to tell me.
You know.
At
And,
59
1
2
(1:26:22)
I finally met Tina Davis last
night.
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
Okay.
I am moving around a little bit.
Not really.
folks are, you know what I mean?
I am trying not to.
RON WATERS:
Right.
I know who my
I thought she was just
upstairs, table upstairs.
This is when they had
the -- the Amusement Association reception
10
upstairs.
That's what I said -- I thought it was
11
at the Crown, it was even better.
12
same hotel.
She was upstairs walking around.
13
Something about her.
14
TYRON ALI:
15
She is one of us.
RON WATERS:
17
TYRON ALI:
19
(01:26:52)
She is from South Philly, you know.
She is from Philly.
16
18
It was at the
You can see that.

Right?
She got that little
rowdiness in her.
RON WATERS:
Yeah, yeah.
She is not, like, one
20
of those, you know, Miss goody-two-shoes, you
21
know, with the superiority complex.
60
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:
Right.
(01:27:12)
-- [inaudible] --
She, like, want
me to do something.
TYRON ALI:
The lobbyist who brought her over
last night, she was with one of her staffers.
she's sitting there sizing me up, because I'm
smoking a cigar, having a cognac.
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
10
Philly?
11
there.
12
Yup.
And
Yeah?
Right.
And she is, like, from
He snatched her so fast out of
RON WATERS:
Oh, yeah.
He can probably see.
13
You know, he was, like, maybe plotting a little
14
bit.
15
TYRON ALI:
Right.
(01:27:49)
16
I actually had a two-hour conversation.
17
Do you remember the blonde chick from Allentown,
18
Karen Byers?
19
RON WATERS:
20
TYRON ALI:
21
RON WATERS:
Yeah.
She wants to run again.
She didn't -- she did one term?
61
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:
Two.
Yeah, I think it was two.
I know she lost the last election.

Mmm-hmm.
She is livid.
(1:28:15)
She got caught up with that -- that
movement that was going on.
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:
Tea Party folks.

The Tea Party folks.
kick a lot of members' butts up there.
D.C.
10
TYRON ALI:
11
RON WATERS:
12
TYRON ALI:
They -- they
That and
Mmm-hmm.
Yeah.
She seems like a nice enough lady.
13
But, you know, I did not appreciate the way that
14
she decided to end the conversation with me.
15
was, like, you are new up here, you need friends.
16
I am, like -- I'm listening to her.
17
being rude.
It
I am not
(01:28:45)
18
RON WATERS:
19
TYRON ALI:
But she was new.
Really?
But I am thinking to myself, I've
20
got 13 years under my belt.
What can you tell me
21
about lobbying that I do not already know?
62
(01:28:58)
2
3
RON WATERS:
around.
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:
She was trying to push her weight
Right.
Some weight that she perceived that
she had.
You know, we got members up here like
that.
One of them just left here not long ago.
She came out saying what I did.
Some people are
10
beginning to call her and want to talk to her.
11
-- [inaudible] --
12
Got people calling me.
13
You know, some of the stuff she is on.

(01:29:22)
As a matter of fact, we are on the floor
14
we were talking about her, what was she doing?
15
And they watch her votes.
16
doing?
Like, what she is
I'll say, I don't know.
17
FEMALE VOICE:
18
TYRON ALI:
19
RON WATERS:
-- [inaudible] --
How are you?
Hey, sweetheart.
How are you?
-- [inaudible] --
20
Black Caucus -- [inaudible] --
21
TYRON ALI:
Issue.
(01:29:39)
That is not a
63
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
to talk to her.
vote.
7
8
Issue.
Mmm-hmm.
That is the Whip's issue.
-- [inaudible] -- The Whip is who is
Not me.
TYRON ALI:
I am not telling members how to
She may be getting whipped.
How is
that?
RON WATERS:
She -- well, they got -- there is
10
people, trial lawyers call me, they -- they
11
already got a candidate they want to fully fund to
12
run against her.
(01:30:04)
13
Now the unions are calling me.
14
TYRON ALI:
15
RON WATERS:
16
Who is the candidate?

I don't know the person.
But it is
a guy.
17
TYRON ALI:
18
RON WATERS:
Okay.
It is a guy.
I said, I don't know.
19
It could be a woman.
But you never know.
She
20
took a seat, the guy's seat a long time, Mario
21
Scavello.
64
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:
against her.
Today.
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:
Mmm-hmm.
But they want to fully run somebody
-- [inaudible] --.
Wow.
But they are so pissed at her.
Mmm-hmm.
(01:30:32)
And her problem is that she comes
up here.
Instead of laying low, do a little
observing, you know, find out who is who.
You
10
can't come here and think that you are a member.
11
I don't push my weight around.
12
-- [inaudible] --
They don't give a shit.
And then the
13
problem with her, too, not only is she, you know,
14
saying something bad, now she is pissing off the
15
people who needs back home to help her.
16
is having problems here, she having problems at
17
home.
18
her, like, you know.
They want to separate
19
themselves from her.
(01:31:12)
20
TYRON ALI:
21
RON WATERS:
So, she
And she got a lot of members looking at
Oh.
I tried to a talk to her again
65
today.
She still got that arrogance about her.
That is just who she is.
You never know.
It may work for her.
It is turning people off.
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:
When you talked about Karen, it reminded
7
8
It may be a short-term success.

Yeah.
(01:31:23)
me what is going on with this girl.

TYRON ALI:
similar dispositions.
10
RON WATERS:
11
TYRON ALI:
Perhaps similar personalities,
Yeah, so.
(01:31:37)
Before I forget, Barbara Capozzi
12
brought down a little Jewish girl from New York.
13
They called, they want to have a meeting with me.
14
15
I met with them.
the town hall with Ann Brown.
16
RON WATERS:
17
TYRON ALI:
18
RON WATERS:
19
TYRON ALI:
20
21
I actually met her at
Okay.
Now, Kenyatta is not going to win.
No?
No.
They talked about him so bad
when he left.
RON WATERS:
What town hall?
(01:32:08)
66
1
2
TYRON ALI:
You know Ann Brown, down South
Philly, southwest.
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
Yeah, you might have been there, too.
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:
10
TYRON ALI:
11
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
14
RON WATERS:
15
TYRON ALI:
16
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
19
RON WATERS:
21
If it was recently, I was in
That was, like, three weeks ago.

Oh, I couldn't make that.
I was there.
Yeah.
(01:32:24)
He wanted me to take him
Thank God you didn't.

Yeah, because -Thank God you didn't.
These people are asking me to do
some stuff --
18
20
Here's the thing.
there.
13
17
Mmm-hmm.
Florida.
12
Yeah. Shes one of my ward leaders.
your damn mind?
Mmm-hmm.
-- that I am, like, are you out
I am not -- (01:32:38)
TYRON ALI:
Like who?
Omega.
67
1
2
RON WATERS:
No.
Hell, no.
He don't give a
shit.
Tony Williams' people, asking me to send
letters to Ann Brown's committee people, telling
them Ron Waters supports --
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:
10
TYRON ALI:
11
RON WATERS:
Don't you do it.

Hey, I am running next year.
Right.
I got to run every two years.
Right.
I do that to get him in, then they
12
look at me and say, you try to undermine me.
13
you crazy?
-- [inaudible] --
14
TYRON ALI:
15
RON WATERS:
16
Yeah.
Let me call you back.
18
All right.
TYRON ALI:
20
RON WATERS:
traffic --
Uh, wait a minute.

Hey.
Hey, Donna.
I am in a meeting, okay?
(01:33:27)
19
21
(01:33:13)
It was said at the meeting --
You there?
17
Are
Now -Thats Donna Laws, one of the
68
1
2
TYRON ALI:
She ain't -- she isn't -- she got
another one.
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
Yeah.
(01:33:37)
No, the guy who was her committee
person, African American guy, Greg Moses, he --
let me tell you, man.
Kenyatta except that -- except, well, a comment
I'll leave off the table because we are having
dinner.
10
11
He said everything about
But let everybody know, you know, Tony

Williams controls Kenyatta.
12
RON WATERS:
Yup.
Like a staff person.
13
that is the problem with him, is that he never,
14
ever, established the independence from.
15
(01:34:07)
16
TYRON ALI:
17
RON WATERS:
Mmm-hmm.
His prior role with him to his
18
current role.
You a legislator now.
19
you as a legislator, not as a staff person.
20
TYRON ALI:
21
RON WATERS:
See,
People have to see
Not an employee.
Not as a staff person.
Tony
69
Williams.
So, when they ask me to send letters to
the committee people, I said, wait a minute.
Brown and I had -- it took awhile for her and I to
establish this great relationship we have now.
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:
Ann
Mmm-hmm.
I can sit down and have dinner with
her and her husband.
month, where we sit down and have breakfast and
10
She invite me out once a
laugh and joke, don't even talk politics.
11
TYRON ALI:
12
RON WATERS:
No.
This is friendship.
13
Waters.
14
put that relationship on --
15
16
18
Now, you want me to go for Kenyatta and
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:
(01:34:56)
I met her at Ducky Berts event.
She came to me.
19
TYRON ALI:
20
RON WATERS:
21
Do you want to meet her, Capozzi?
Mind if I put it together?
17
She loves Ron
awhile.
Okay.
Good.
She came up to me, stood there for
I didn't know who she was.
(01:35:04)
70
TYRON ALI:
One of the kids we know, he got
shot.
That is the reason I wasn't there.
shot in his right calf Saturday afternoon
Saturday morning.
jail, that kind of stuff.
6
together.
brand new S-550.
And I know his mom, dad's in

You know.
Sid was riding around in his -- his
RON WATERS:
10
TYRON ALI:
Okay.
So, we were riding down Broad
Street.
12
RON WATERS:
13
TYRON ALI:
14
RON WATERS:
15
--
But Ducky, I, and Sid Booker were
11
He got
[inaudible] --
Is that the Cadillac?

No, Mercedes.
Oh.
Sorry, I missed it.
--
he has those cars, SB-1, SB-2.
16
TYRON ALI:
Mmm-hmm.
Yeah.
(1:35:47)
17
RON WATERS:
18
TYRON ALI:
19
We were at the NBA game, Sixers.
20
RON WATERS:
21
TYRON ALI:
He is -Sid is funny, man.
Okay.
And I saw a Nutter.
He said, we
71
are going to support him.
always?
I said, don't we
RON WATERS:
Mmm-hmm. (1:36:11)
TYRON ALI:
But, see, heres the thing.
And I left it at that, you know.

We get
this PAC, you got to be on her ass to set this
thing up in the next two days.
Friday, I'll have something for you.
RON WATERS:
Because, by
Okay.
10
TYRON ALI:
11
RON WATERS:
12
I have to call her and let her know I
13

Okay.
All right.
need it done --
14
TYRON ALI:
15
RON WATERS:
16
TYRON ALI:
17
RON WATERS: And if she cant do it, I get
18
19
20
Yeah.
-- like, yesterday.
Yup.
somebody else to do it.

TYRON ALI:
And the registration piece, you
know, it is only a day.
21
RON WATERS:
22
TYRON ALI:
Not even a day.

Right. Oh.
Because once its registered you
72
can accept money.
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
Okay. (1:36:45)
I am just very, very curious as to
what Kenyatta is going to do, because it will send
a strong message if he loses the council seat that
he is vulnerable on the state side.
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
to you.
Right.
Yeah.
me, right?
11
listen, man.
12
no permanent enemies.
13
him.
14
requires mature individuals.
In politics, no permanent friends,

This is what I am telling
I said, but you have to learn that politics
RON WATERS:
16
TYRON ALI:
Right.
Now, I know you and I, we have had
our little tiffs.
18
RON WATERS:
19
TYRON ALI:
21
He called me -- I'll show it
I saw him there that day, and I said,
15
20
(01:37:03)
All this time he don't want to talk to
10
17
Right?
Mmm-hmm.
But that was years ago.
maybe we can help you.

RON WATERS:
(01:37:28)
Mmm-hmm.
Let it go,
73
1
2
TYRON ALI:
Where is it at?
Okay, here.
That's what he sent me.
RON WATERS:
What does he want?
-- [inaudible] -
(01:37:47)
TYRON ALI:
Because I told him at some point I
would do a little fundraiser for him, but we are
not going to do anything major -- Babette just
returned.
9
10
RON WATERS:
That is why Greg is -- is --
11
TYRON ALI:
12
RON WATERS:
13
to.
Livid.
Adamant.
Enemy, someone opposed
He was, like -- -- [inaudible] --.
14
(01:38:15)
The thing that -- it out, the Ed
15
Thornton piece.
16
the same candidate.
Ed Thornton and Ann Brown usually support
17
TYRON ALI:
18
RON WATERS:
19
doing him.
20
Harper.
21
He, umm -- well, that is his issue.
Yeah.
This is how he is doing.
He is not
He is doing -- I mean, he is not doing
TYRON ALI:
Mmm-hmm.
74
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
He is doing Kenyatta.
Yeah.
(01:38:34)
Well, Jeff Felder said to
me, because when I saw him with Barbara, I said,
listen, why didn't you tell me you were with
Barbara?
after our girl.
girl, Lysette, running after Jannie.
He said, Ty, you know Tony sent somebody

Can't allow that.
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
10
name is.
Oh.
Yeah.
Lisa, Alisha, whatever her
Yeah.
11
RON WATERS:
12
TYRON ALI:
13
Tony had that
Yeah.
Yes.
-- [inaudible] --
Well, actually, honestly, I
had the opportunity to talk to her.
14
RON WATERS:
15
TYRON ALI:
16
RON WATERS:
She was hurt.
Mmm-hmm.
And upset.
You know.
I heard on the radio saying that he
17
decided to run somebody against me.
18
like, you know, that is not a good thing to put
19
out there.
20
TYRON ALI:
21
RON WATERS:
(01:39:06)
And I am,
Hmm-mm.
Run against a council person.
75
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
Yeah, yeah.
(01:39:28)
Aaron, can I have the check,
please?
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
People remember that stuff, man.
candidate.
She was a terrible candidate.

Mmm-hmm.
How about that?
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
10
RON WATERS:
11
TYRON ALI:
12
RON WATERS:
13
TYRON ALI:
That's true.
You know --- [inaudible] -She didn't make it out of the gate.
No, she wasn't even a candidate.
But Anthony Clark keeps calling me.
14
I said, Anthony, listen.
15
problem.
16
Well, she wasn't even a
You have a small
I can't help you with a small problem.

And he -- I know you want -- see, here
17
is the thing.
Somebody went and told him that,
18
you know, Ryan Boyer and I, we are friends, you
19
know.
20
Omar for traffic court.
21
who we support.
He said that I was going to support Sabir

That is my business,
(01:40:10)
76
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
You supporting Ivy.
supporting Ivy?
Mmm-hmm.
He said, well, can you help me?
I said, who told you I was
Ivy.
You look in the records, man, I have
never given that girl anything.
anything.
said, Tyron, look, we know Anthony will win.
will not pick a fight with Marge Tartaglione.
You know.
10
RON WATERS:
11
TYRON ALI:
12
Because Ryan said to me, he
Right.
RON WATERS:
We
(01:40:40)
That is smart.
go pick a fight with Marge.
13
I don't know
I am not going to
For what?
Right.
Originally, they weren't
14
looking to support her.
That was something more
15
that she wanted to do.
16
think that would automatically get us a record
17
issue.
18
But they are looking at the big picture.
19
(01:41:05)
She has that name.
Plus, she thought they would be with her.
20
TYRON ALI:
21
RON WATERS:
Mmm-hmm.
You know.
They are not going to go
77
against anything.
WAITER:
of.
-- [inaudible] -Your bill has been taken care
-- [inaudible] --
TYRON ALI:
do that.
Oh, my goodness.
Representative, you didn't have to
Now I am forced to return the favor.

Thank you.
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:
You absolutely do.
What did she do?
TYRON ALI:
11
Thank you so much.
12
RON WATERS:
13
TYRON ALI:
15
I'll get a rain check.
You do.
10
14
Thank you.
She took care of dinner.

(01:41:34)
Babette.
You took care of his tab?
A beautiful woman bought us dinner.
Thank you.
RON WATERS:
You know what?
People are really
16
going to start talking when they see us on the
17
floor next time.
18
TYRON ALI:
Thank you so much.
19
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
20
RON WATERS:
21
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
My pleasure.
Thank you, dear.

I am glad.
78
1
2
RON WATERS:
You know what?
is my No. 1 candidate.
TYRON ALI:
WAITER:
TYRON ALI:
You're welcome.
7
8
9
Aaron.
Yes, sir.
Here you are.
Thank you.
You always take good
care of us.
RON WATERS:
the Black Caucus.
I call her an honorary member of
See, when I first --
10
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
11
RON WATERS:
12
TYRON ALI:
13
RON WATERS:
14
TYRON ALI:
15
Babette -- Babette
That was before.
That was before.

That was before.
When I came here -Would you like to join us since you
bought us dinner?
16
RON WATERS:
She had --
17
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
18
TYRON ALI:
19
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
20
TYRON ALI:
21
RON WATERS:
-- [inaudible] --
(01:42:24)
Have one drink with us.

Oh, I have something.
Okay.
She had, uh --
79
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:
Great.
She had asked -- I got word when I
came in, she had asked why can't she be a member
of the Black Caucus.
back in '99, when I first came here.
Harold James was here at the time.
This was -- I heard this
And I said, she did?
represent black people.
of the Black caucus?
10
TYRON ALI:
11
RON WATERS:
I think
She said, I
Why can't I be a member
Mmm-hmm.
(01:42:51)
I said, you know, that makes sense.
12
So, every time I get a chance, I always tell people
13
about what she said.
14
than anybody else.
And she stands with us more
15
TYRON ALI:
Clearly she just --
16
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
17
RON WATERS:
-- [inaudible] --
Who was the chair of the Black
18
Caucus when you made that statement, that you
19
should --
(01:43:14)
20
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
21
RON WATERS:
Might be --
Was it Harold James?
80
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
RON WATERS:
3
4
5
Hardy was never chair of the Black
Caucus.
TYRON ALI:
You know Hardy used to sit next to
me at the law firm?
RON WATERS:
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
RON WATERS:
9
10
Yeah, he didn't win.
Okay.
He tried to run against
Frank Oliver, as a matter of fact.

BABETTE JOSEPHS:
12
RON WATERS:
13
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
14
RON WATERS:
15
TYRON ALI:
16
RON WATERS:
17
TYRON ALI:
Must have been that year.
Okay.
I remember -- -- [inaudible] --
(01:43:40)
Yeah.
You like Riesling?

I like Riesling.
Yeah, it is very sweet.
It is a
good dessert wine.
19
RON WATERS:
20
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
21
It was a long time ago.
He ran for it, but he didn't win.
11
18
Hardy.
Acosta was here.
Yeah.
Umm, it was -- it was Ralph
81
RON WATERS:
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
Black Caucus.
4
5
Wow.
(01:44:07)
RON WATERS:
Yeah.
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
RON WATERS:
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
TYRON ALI:
Puerto Rico -- [inaudible] --
Okay, okay.
-- [inaudible] --
Excuse me, sorry.
I'll get this
chair for her.
11
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
12
TYRON ALI:
13
When I look at the pictures
of him, he looks like a white guy.
10
And they took him into the
Good to see you.
-- [inaudible] --
There you go, dear.
Have a seat.
(01:44:26)
14
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
15
RON WATERS:
16
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
They were white PR.
Okay.
So, and I have been there only
17
once.
But they don't make any distinction at all.
18
There is no -- they don't see race the same we do
19
at all.
20
RON WATERS:
Okay.
21
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
But, so, they could let Ralph
82
in, who was very light-skinned, Puerto Rican.
said, how come you left him in, let him in?
Somebody, I don't know who it was, I don't think
the person is here anymore, said to me, well, when
when your people are slaves.
RON WATERS:
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
8
9
(01:44:58)
Yes.
I said, that depends how far
back you want to go.

RON WATERS:
Yeah.
10
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
11
Where have you been for awhile?
12
And when I
But, yes.
Yes.
(01:45:11)
What
kind of question is that?
13
RON WATERS:
14
BABETTE JOSEPHS: But it didn't help me to say yes
15
TYRON ALI:
16
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
17
-- [inaudible] --
Here is -- this is funny.

And I don't know when Puerto
Ricans were ever slaves -- [inaudible] --
18
RON WATERS:
19
TYRON ALI:
20
Niano and the Tiano Indians --
21
(01:45:25)
Puerto Ricans -Puerto Ricans are actually the
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
Yes.
83
TYRON ALI:
-- from Puerto Rico.
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
TYRON ALI:
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
TYRON ALI:
Guy said to me, wait a second.
But everybody's left.
Yeah.
There is no Tiano really left.
No, no.
You
don't need two -- two guys up here that are
lobbyists that are Indian.
and you.
Wait a second.
I said, here is the problem.
10
longer a lobbyist.
11
I am the only Indian.
12
RON WATERS:
13
TYRON ALI:
14
RON WATERS:
15
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
Aggie
Aggie's no
Aggie's with Blue Cross.
So,
Right, right.
From Trinidad anyway.
Oh.
I almost got to Trinidad.
16
- my niece was doing a project with guppies in the
17
nature preserve that's not far --
18
TYRON ALI:
19
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
20
TYRON ALI:
21
time.
Guppies.
Oh, wow.
Yeah.
I haven't heard that in a long
My -
84
1
2
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
Toronto.
3
4
TYRON ALI:
lovely broach.
How are you doing?
TYRON ALI:
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
TYRON ALI:
10
How are you doing?
That's horrible.
Perfectly
That is why we are all driven
to drink.
TYRON ALI:
13
RON WATERS:
Amen.
Yeah.
Amen.
(01:46:29)
It was a rough day in D.C.
They passing some crazy damn things right now.
15
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
16
not together.
17
they are not together.
But, you know what?
They are
Even though they say all those votes,

-- [inaudible] --
18
RON WATERS:
19
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
21
You okay?
Tough day.
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
12
20
Thank you.
horrible.
14
That is a
You always look great.
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
11
Now she is in
(01:46:17)
I tried.
Yeah.
Wait until they get to the hard
stuff.
RON WATERS:
Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
85
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
have any poor people.
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
No.
Because they don't think they
(01:46:48)
Your district, I know you encompass
18th Street.
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
I live at 19th -- really
between 19th and 20th and Pine and Lombard Street.
have very many poor people.
So, I
I actually had quite obvious high
10
unemployment, parts of Bella Vista, parts of Grays
11
Ferry.
12
invisible, but I think profound poverty of women
13
who live in high-rent areas and have --
And I have quite un -- really, really
14
RON WATERS:
Really?
15
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
-- and have -- their husbands
16
they are widowed.
17
through Social Security, and they were never
18
really attached to the workforce themselves.
19
Their husband's pensions and
And they were supposed to die at 80 and
20
they are 92 and they are still alive and they have
21
no money.
And they can't move.
86
RON WATERS:
Wow.
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
(01:47:47)
You can't move somebody that
age.
So, I keep -- I am trying to set up a
sort of patrol of old ladies in some of these
buildings around the square who, when they see
somebody who's, like, really frail and freezing or
something, they should figure out some way to get
her a food stamp card so she can eat.
those people cannot move.
10
TYRON ALI:
11
commonplace as well.
12
kind of an issue.
13
14
15
Because
They are too old.
It is fairly difficult, but fairly

And you deal with the same
(01:48:21)
RON WATERS:
Exactly.
Big time.
Especially
outside the -- [inaudible] -Even out in Yeadon, they have nice
16
houses, but a lot of people there having a hard
17
time paying their taxes.
18
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
19
RON WATERS:
20
21
Yeah.
Not just their mortgage.
Their
taxes are five or $6,000 year.

BABETTE JOSEPHS:
That's what happens with these
87
folks.
That's what mine are.
RON WATERS:
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
I have a house -- the floor plan is half
this size.
location.
Taxes?
RON WATERS:
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
Yeah.
RON WATERS:
11
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
13
So, all these old people who
are in Rittenhouse Square are in apartments.
10
12
(01:48:41)
I mean, you know, but its location,
Taxes.
Yeah.
Well, they are on fixed income.
(01:49:00)
TYRON ALI:
I was -- I will tell, you I was
14
pleasantly greeted by a young woman who was
15
working on your campaign.
16
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
Oh, yeah?
17
TYRON ALI:
18
Aaron, one second, please.
19
What would you like to drink, dear?
20
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
21
TYRON ALI:
And her name escapes me.
Oh --
We are just having a glass of wine.
88
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
Do you have something like Diet Coke?
WAITER:
TYRON ALI:
7
8
9
yes.
A vintage.
I'll have one, too.
Thank you,
(01:49:31)
That young man had absolutely no
business running against you.

BABETTE JOSEPHS:
No, no.
10
TYRON ALI:
11
I had not gotten the assignment from
None at all.
12
Cambria Law Center to lobby for them.
13
their director.
14
worked for Adrian Moody, I worked for Congressman
15
Blackwell at Saint Hill.
16
vintage one.
Probably not a good idea.
Now I am
But I worked for Bobby Vance, I
And I said to myself, I said, he does
17
not -- his name escapes me.
18
have a snowball's chance in hell.
19
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
20
TYRON ALI:
21
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
But I knew he didn't
I like it when people say --
I can't even remember -They say, that guy that ran
89
against you.
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
name?
his job.
Yeah.
Who?
Young kid.
-- [inaudible] -RON WATERS:
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
-- [inaudible] -- run against you?
10
TYRON ALI:
11
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
12
TYRON ALI:
13
RON WATERS:
14
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
15
think Daphne put him up --
16
TYRON ALI:
thinking.
18
19
At one point in 2006.
(01:50:17) Larry did that, right?

Yeah.
Yeah.
-- [inaudible] -Well, I don't think so.
John did it.
That's what I am
I am, like, no, no, no, no.

BABETTE JOSEPHS:
(01:50:27)
Then he turned around and beat
John in 2000.
20
21
They'll say, what, what was his
I say, wait, that is not my job, that is
17
Young kid.
RON WATERS:
him.
Then Johnny tried to run against
90
1
2
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
TYRON ALI:
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
away from me.
No.
TYRON ALI:
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
TYRON ALI:
WAITER:
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
Actually, since 2006, he stayed
(01:50:51)
10
So, I don't think
John is going to bother me anymore.
Yeah, right.
Bobby is not doing well.

No, he is not?
No, he is not doing well.
Can I take these plates for
you?
TYRON ALI:
Yes, you can clear the table.
Thank you, Aaron.

Bobby's not doing well because we were
at Paddy Whacks with -BABETTE JOSEPHS:
Who hosted that race?
Is that
Louise -- Quinones -TYRON ALI:
Yeah, Maria Sanchez-Quinones --
Quinones-Sanchez.
19
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
20
TYRON ALI:
21
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
Good for her.
Unfortunately --- [inaudible] --
(01:51:06)
91
TYRON ALI:
Unfortunately, there have been
certain shifts of policy that took place in the
past two weeks.
moved Matos out of the board leader position.
5
6
They were -- a federal judge has
You know Maria, she hired Matos

recently.
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
TYRON ALI:
build a bridge.
To try and -- to try and --
To try and garner some support,
(01:51:27)
10
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
-- [inaudible] --
11
TYRON ALI:
12
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
With Tartaglione.
13
TYRON ALI:
The problem now becomes
Yes.
Yes.
14
Emilio Vazquez is no longer with Matos, he has
15
broken the rank.
He is now with Danny.
16
RON WATERS:
17
TYRON ALI:
18
RON WATERS:
19
TYRON ALI:
Is he?
We are with Danny.
Okay.
Because the problem is Tomas, I
20
have known Tomas for years.
I went to him.
And
21
we own our own building and that kind of thing.
92
And I said to him, I said, Tomas, look, you have a
collection floor upstairs.
jobs into Philadelphia.
300 grand.
We need to bring some
I have already invested
What do we need to do?
(01:52:02)
And we went over -- Roberto Feliz was
running for -- Roberto Feliz was running for mayor
of Camden.
There was certain certain collection
contracts.
He said to me -- he looks me square in
the face, and he says, hey, listen, we have our
10
own collection agency guy, Michael Munos.
11
there is -- you will not even entertain a proposal
12
from us?
No.
We can't support your wife then.
13
RON WATERS:
14
TYRON ALI:
15
RON WATERS:
17
TYRON ALI:
18
RON WATERS:
19
TYRON ALI:
21
Okay.
(01:52:27)
That -- that's how that all
happened.
16
20
I said,
Oh, okay.
Because we were all with David Oh.
Okay.
But, you know, politics make some
strange bedfellows.
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
So, now, Matos (phonetic) is no
93
longer a ward leader.
TYRON ALI:
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
TYRON ALI:
So he would be no use to --
Well, he still has those
relationships -- thank you so much.
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
Hmm-mm.
judge.
(01:52:45)
-- [inaudible] -- his conviction?

I didn't read the ruling from the
But, summarily, it was --
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
-- [inaudible] --
10
Who is this guy?
Something happened at
11
the bench.
That is not right.
12
RON WATERS:
13
TYRON ALI:
Yeah.
(01:53:07)
My conclusion of what was shared
14
with me is that he may be predisposed to do
15
something corrupt or have some kind of -- commit
16
some kind of corrupt act while he is there as
17
ward leader.
18
Now, interestingly, Savage's dad is
19
federal judge.
20
right?
21
So, there could be, you know --
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
Why would a federal judge
94
jeopardize his cushy job in the world?
knows.
don't understand.
People do all kinds of weird things you
4
5
RON WATERS:
weird.
But, who
That would be weird.
(01:53:41)
So, now, what's his name lost his
position as ward leader.
mentioned.
Umm -- worked at the Parking
Authority.
Ward leader for one term.
10
TYRON ALI:
12
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
13
RON WATERS:
14
TYRON ALI:
Yeah.
Vazquez.
He was at the Parking
Authority.
17
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
18
TYRON ALI:
Yeah.
I used to be his supervisor.

He ran when Tony ran.
Right, Payton.
Mmm-hmm.
And, of
course --
20
22
Vazquez?
Vazquez.
RON WATERS:
21
You just
Emilio?
16
19
The other guy you
mentioned his name.
11
15
That would be
BABETTE JOSEPHS: Now he is coming back. He is

back.
TYRON ALI:
Right.
Well, there is a huge push
95
to unseat Mr. Payton.
(01:54:25)
RON WATERS:
Who is it?
TYRON ALI:
From your side.
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:
10
11
No.
The democrats, Bob Brady and them
has never -BABETTE JOSEPHS:
13
TYRON ALI:
14
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
15
to endorse my ward leader.
18
RON WATERS:
Yeah.
(01:54:45)
So, he went so far as to want
And I'll tell you what else he made
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
did endorse her.
20
But, what else?
22
That's exactly right.
a big mistake doing.
19
21
Always fighting with
Tartaglione.
RON WATERS:
17
The primary, right?
They never, ever endorsed him?
12
16
Yeah, I
talk to everybody.
Oh, yeah.
Well, I don't know.
Maybe he
I am not so sure it was a mistake.
RON WATERS:
No, he went, and when the person
who was running for Frank Oliver's seat against
96
Michelle --
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
RON WATERS:
-- [inaudible] --
He came up here, because the
candidate couldn't come up, and picked a
candidate's number, for ballot position.
(01:55:15)
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
RON WATERS:
Tony did?
Tony Payton did that.
Here you got a guy, Frank Oliver, who is
10
a senior member, who is here, who has nothing but
11
respect and credibility on the floor.
12
going to go and get in line with that?
13
about it.
14
They were there.

BABETTE JOSEPHS:
You are
They know
They saw it.

I saw all that stuff on the
15
internet about Franjoli, golly (phonetic),
16
whatever his name was.
17
me.
18
don't think they ever really talked to any real
19
voters.
And it was a total internet campaign.
20
21
It always just astounded

I
(01:55:50)
First of all, why was I getting all
this --
97
RON WATERS:
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
can't vote there.
Where is Michelle?
running.
office.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I knew her a little bit from Frank's
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
Yeah, yeah.
RON WATERS:
11
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
14
I was positive she was going to
win.
10
13
Because I knew she was
RON WATERS:
12
I am not in that district.
I kept saying, where is Michelle?
You can't vote.
That's another thing.
(01:56:08)
But I kept getting all the
stuff from whatever his first name was.

TYRON ALI:
The new move -- the new move is to
put Ken Washington into Jewel's seat.
15
RON WATERS:
16
TYRON ALI:
Yeah.
The problem is, Jewel is going to
17
run his daughter.
And then Gary Williams -- you
18
know, Shirley, she moved Gary from west of Broad.
19
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
I know Gary.
20
TYRON ALI:
21
BABETTE JOSEPHS: -- [inaudible] --.
Gary Williams.
98
TYRON ALI:
Gary was ward leader. (01:56:34).
RON WATERS:
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
He's the one --
laborer's committee.
TYRON ALI:
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
Yes, he is 322's lobbyist.
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
Yeah.
Her name's Jewel, too.
10
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
11
RON WATERS:
Yeah, yeah.
That is why he said he'd put her on
that.
13
TYRON ALI:
14
RON WATERS:
15
TYRON ALI:
16
RON WATERS:
17
I don't know -- oh, I did meet,
actually, Jewel's daughter someplace.
12
Ken Washington's on the
Uh-huh.
But he had Kevin -Kevin Lam?
-- who wanted -- I mean, he was
waiting.
18
He goes, from what I understand, if Bob
19
Brady ran Jewel against Andrew Carnes, it was an
20
option.
21
Jewel wanted it, so he got it.
Kevin Lam or Jewel.
And, of course,
And they gave
99
Kevin Lam a very good salary, which they had to
take back.
(01:57:19)
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:
I heard it was 80 grand.

Yes.
It was 80 grand, right?
Yes, for him.
Not being the state
rep, but he would make more than the state rep.
TYRON ALI:
BABETTE JOSEPHS: But now he is working for Jewel.
10
RON WATERS:
Right.
Then.
But, see, what happened was
11
-- remember, you could be working in somebody's
12
office, but on another part of the payroll.
13
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
14
RON WATERS:
15
Remember they do that kind of
stuff?
16
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
17
RON WATERS:
18
Yeah, yeah.
So, Kevin actually billed Jewel's
salary --
19
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
20
RON WATERS:
21
Right.
Hired himself below the --
Right.
So, Kevin was really on
Fumo's payroll, through Shirley.
Shirley --
100
(01:57:53)
2
3
TYRON ALI:
are right.
You are right.
You are saying it right.

RON WATERS:
You are right.

Yup.
And then when they made them all
cut down their staff, Kevin got the boot.
then he got knocked down a considerable amount of
money.
80.
And
Like, 80 down to, I think, like, half of
9
10
You
TYRON ALI:
Like, 48, 45.
Something like that.
Yeah.
11
He was very disappointed.
12
RON WATERS:
13
TYRON ALI:
14
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
15
TYRON ALI:
16
RON WATERS:
17
But I think he wants to be a sate rep
18
rep.
19
the work.
Oh, yeah.
Understandably so.
Yeah, yeah.
You know, understandably so.

So, it was crazy.
I think that he earned it.
20
TYRON ALI:
21
RON WATERS:
(01:58:23)
He really does
He doesn't live there though.

He don't live there, he lives in
101
West Philly?
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:
No, mmm-hmm.
He has to move.
should have been there.
there.
He should have been
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
RON WATERS:
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
He should have moved.
TYRON ALI:
I do.
(01:58:40)
So, do you hear anything about
I know all the folks.
know Ruth Rumps and all the folks over there.
12
But, you know --
13
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
14
TYRON ALI:
15
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
16
He should have moved.
my ward?
10
11
But, you know, he
Ruth's a good woman.
Ruth makes me laugh.

Ruth is a very good woman.
(01:58:54)
17
TYRON ALI:
She is a good person.
18
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
19
TYRON ALI:
Yes, she is.
But in the Bell Vista section, that
20
is where if any challenge comes out, that's where
21
you got to watch.
102
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
TYRON ALI:
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
RON WATERS:
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
TYRON ALI:
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
TYRON ALI:
going down that way.
Mmm-hmm.
TYRON ALI:
12
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
13
TYRON ALI:
You know the name.
-- [inaudible] --
(1:59:13)
He lives on Montrose.
Is that where he is, Montrose?

Yeah.
But that -- if I were a betting man
-- you know Vern Anastasio?
15
RON WATERS:
16
TYRON ALI:
17
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
not.
I don't remember him.

Loud mouth.
He works for me.
He better
I'll cut him off.
19
21
Vern?
Well, it is, like, Reed Street,
11
20
Who is that going to be?
Anastasio.
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
18
Bella Vista.
Bella Vista, where is that?
10
14
For me?
RON WATERS:
He used to work for you?
(01:59:34)
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
Yeah.
103
1
2
RON WATERS:
[inaudible] --
You got to have his staff.
Get -- enjoy that notoriety.
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
TYRON ALI:
Ninth and Montrose, he lives.
Ninth and Montrose.
Yeah, that is
Bella Vista, right?
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
Yeah.
(01:59:49)
See, they keep me in the loop, Ron.

This guy -He lives in the 11th, but he
10
seems to be the committee person for the 10th.
11
is not anymore.
12
lose badly.
13
14
I don't know.
TYRON ALI:
He is going to
insight?
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
16
TYRON ALI:
Okay.
Sure.
(02:00:07)
Vern is going to raise a lot
of money.
18
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
19
TYRON ALI:
20
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
21
Maybe he
Can I give you a little bit of
15
17
--
give to Vern.
For who?
Doesn't matter.
The point is --
I think it is -- whether he
104
1
2
TYRON ALI:
The point is -- the point is, make
ready.
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
TYRON ALI:
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
TYRON ALI:
Oh, I am always ready.
Make ready.
I am always ready.
(02:00:29)
Because, at this point, at this
point, you've got two dynamics at work.
You've
got some young folks who have already said -- and
I know, because I am on the street every day.
10
Hey, Ty, this is our little group now.
11
not -- these are not folks who live in Rittenhouse
12
who know you.
13
are folks coming out of the midsections of Grays
14
Ferry and Bella Vista and a couple of other points
15
you represent that are not as familiar with your
16
record.
17
And it is
These are not those folks.
I'll tell you something.
These
One of the
18
things I really do admire is -- whether or not he
19
gets to DiCicco's seat is, possible, Mark Squilla,
20
he is -- he is on the television every night.
21
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
I don't remember him at all.
105
Except he ran again Keller once.
2
3
TYRON ALI:
Billy Keller.
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
types running.
constituents.
TYRON ALI:
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
TYRON ALI:
10
It is the same
Hornstein is a different animal.

Same constituency, I think.
But --
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
I am trying to help Jeff, but
I'm --
12
TYRON ALI:
13
RON WATERS:
14
TYRON ALI:
15
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
17
There is too many Center city
Hornstein, Joe Grace.
16
Mark, he used to be
the President for NAC down in South Philly.
11
(02:01:26)
the other Jeff?
Which Jeff?
Hornstein.
Okay.
I don't live there.
What is
(02:01:56)
TYRON ALI:
We've got -- well, we've got one
18
kid here, who he is going to run for county
19
commissioner on our side.
20
RON WATERS:
21
TYRON ALI:
-- [inaudible] -Mmm-hmm.
106
1
2
RON WATERS:
for commissioner, Keller.
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:
5
6
7
I ran into some guy today running
Verner.
-- [inaudible] --
TYRON ALI:
Jeff Verner.
the lieutenant governor now.

RON WATERS:
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
11
I just took his
card out of my wallet.
10
Is that his name?
Okay.
Young guy.
Works for
(02:02:24)
I don't know him.
So, what did you hear about my
ward leader.
TYRON ALI:
Well, without speculating, all I
12
would tell you is, I would give you the same --
13
the same advice I give to anybody who is at war
14
without seeing it.
15
interesting and intriguing changes are comes to
16
Philadelphia.
17
Make ready.
Make ready.
Think about it like this.
Some
With the
18
exception of this gentleman and my dear friend for
19
many years, who else do we have?
20
RON WATERS:
21
TYRON ALI:
Who?
(02:03:00)
To do what -In terms of someone holding a
107
position as chair.
But we have no one.
--
Not in leadership necessarily.

Dwight, whatever.
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
Vince is
-- [inaudible] --
Vince is, right?
Fumo.
-- [inaudible] -But, here is the thing.

They deep in the minority.
Here is the thing.
Even Vince
10
Hughes or Tony, right?
11
in the senate, you have a minority of a minority.
12
What do you have?
What do you have?
13
RON WATERS:
14
TYRON ALI:
15
have?
With all due respect, even
Yeah.
What do you have?
What do you
(02:03:39)
16
RON WATERS:
17
chair appropriations.
18
they can't just do arbitrarily and release it.
19
They made some changes.
20
21
Then they change the rules for the

Everything they do now,
What was that they did, they had to go

into the --
108
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
Well, I think like itself
against the rules.
They made substantive changes and
wasn't supposed to be doing that.
RON WATERS:
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
RON WATERS:
this -- [inaudible] --
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:
10
TYRON ALI:
11
RON WATERS:
12
Right.
TYRON ALI:
14
RON WATERS:
15
TYRON ALI:
16
RON WATERS:
Yeah, nobody.
I didn't see it.

With Dwight and -Our paper home?
Yeah.
It is on the front page of
Dwight and who?

And Bob Barthy.
Oh.
School reform commission about that
-- that -- -- [inaudible] -BABETTE JOSEPHS:
19
TYRON ALI:
21
But now they got
(02:04:07)
18
20
Who is to stop him?
the --
13
17
They did it.
Oh, yeah.
Martin Luther King, the charter
school, right?
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
It's in all the papers.
109
1
2
TYRON ALI:
That charter school is huge.
(02:04:26)
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
RON WATERS:
Nutter has asked for an
investigation.
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:
Get to them somehow.
Is that Dwight's school?
Mmm-hmm.
He wanted to bring in this New York
-- I mean, this New Jersey firm called Foundations
10
to run the school.
11
called Musaica (sp) they already awarded to run the
12
school.
13
$6 million to run the school.
14
Foundation's there before.
15
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
16
But there was another company
And that is why they said we'll give them
It is not a very good idea for
people on our level to get that involved --
17
RON WATERS:
18
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
19
-- [inaudible] -- --
No.
You just get in trouble.
20
RON WATERS:
21
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
-- with an entity of any kind.

(02:05:04)
Yeah.
I would get -- that school has
110
never done well.
RON WATERS:
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
TYRON ALI:
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
9
10
Never.
Right.
This is the charter school.
schools.
His did worst than most.
12
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
Right.
(02:05:25)
But none of them do better than
public schools.
14
RON WATERS:
15
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
He had the one, too.

What do they expect?
What is
wrong with them?
17
RON WATERS:
18
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
19
-- [inaudible] -- together to
show everybody charter schools would do better than public
RON WATERS:
16
Yes, I understand.
This is the charter school.
11
13
It has never done well.
-- [inaudible] -I asked those questions about
the money that went into West Oak Lane, just to --
20
RON WATERS:
Right.
21
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
-- do the improvement stuff.
111
Which was probably spent correctly, should have been
spent.
RON WATERS:
Right.
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
(02:05:48)
Just because every aspect
wasn't a 100 percent success, doesn't mean it was anybody's
fault.
(02:05:55)
But you never get yourself that involved.
TYRON ALI:
What committees are you on now?
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
10
TYRON ALI:
11
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
12
13
14
Which one?
RON WATERS:
See, what they did this last time,
they took -- they gave all the state chairs -BABETTE JOSEPHS:
16
TYRON ALI:
17
RON WATERS:
the chair of.
State government.
Okay.
-- only one committee to committee
Which I don't necessarily --
19
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
20
RON WATERS:
21
Known as Daryl Metcalfe.
(02:06:01)
15
18
I have only one committee.
Yeah.
I wanted to be on agriculture.
They used to be on -- have
their chairmanship, then they was on other
112
committees, too.
2
3
(02:06:21)
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
agriculture.
RON WATERS:
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
republican.
I asked to be on
But then I saw no chairs were on --
Yeah.
No chairs.
So, Daryl Metcalf is a
He is crazy.
RON WATERS:
There is chairs.
Because on health
and human services, they got -- Mark Cohen is the
chair, is on that committee with --
10
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
11
RON WATERS:
He is also --
He also had health and human
12
services committee.
13
-- they did the same thing with Baker.
14
allowed -- it is certain committees for them to
15
have the crossover of chair being allowed to be on
16
another one.
17
18
21
And Baker
So, they
(02:06:55)
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
I guess because they do the
same kind of stuff.
19
20
He is chair there.
RON WATERS:
They pretty much do the same kind
of stuff.
TYRON ALI:
Well, you having a fundraiser any
113
time soon?
2
3
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
When I do --
4
5
No, but give me your card.
TYRON ALI:
I don't -- when was the last time I
carried a card?
Well, they just made some up for me.
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:
10
-- [inaudible] --
11
Yeah.
Let me -- if you have one -They came after her before though.
(02:07:16)
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
12
percent of the vote.
13
that time around.
14
who was another young jerk.
15
remember.
16
17
Kerry was not the problem
It was the Dougherty candidate
RON WATERS:
either.
Well, Kerry didn't even get 20
His name we don't
I don't remember that that name,
I know you did have a young person.
18
TYRON ALI:
Now --
19
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
Oh, this one, somebody asked
20
him how old he was in the ward meeting.
21
Norman was our ward leader.
This was when
And he goes, I am 23.
114
One of the committee women says, oh, my God, I got
shoes in my closet older than that.
3
4
TYRON ALI:
Do you have your cell phone with
you?
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
TYRON ALI:
this -- this stuff.

BABETTE JOSEPHS:
TYRON ALI:
12
TYRON ALI:
So that you can
reach me.
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
15
TYRON ALI:
Here, here.
(02:08:13)
If you need our help, just feel
free to call me.
17
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
18
RON WATERS:
19
TYRON ALI:
21
-- [inaudible] --
You can reach me.
14
20
I never
look at the messages.

BABETTE JOSEPHS:
16
I never listen to my --
I don't do it, either.
11
13
Yeah, but I --
Call me so that I can -- I don't do
10
(02:07:52)
Who are these people?
-- [inaudible] -What do you think's going to happen
with Billy Keller?

RON WATERS:
Do what?
115
1
2
TYRON ALI:
happen to Billy Keller?
3
4
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:
9
10
11
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:
Who was it?
How severe is it?

Oh, they came in and took a lot of
13
RON WATERS:
14
TYRON ALI:
15
RON WATERS:
was his partner.
And somebody else's office, too.
It was his partner.

Two -It was his partner.
His office and another office.
That's who it was.
17
TYRON ALI:
18
RON WATERS:
it since then.
Yeah, that's what I was told.
Was it the union?
TYRON ALI:
19
-- [inaudible] -- the investigation?
stuff out of his office.
12
16
Is he going to go to jail, you
mean?
What do you think is going to
(02:08:50)
Mmm-hmm.
I haven't heard anything else about
Don't mean it went away.
20
TYRON ALI:
21
RON WATERS:
It
No.
That didn't look good.
116
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
mean, doesn't look good.
At least six months.
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
No, I know it didn't go -- I

But it was how long ago now?
Yeah, it's been awhile.

You can reach me on my cell.
right.
Thanks for the card.
RON WATERS:
(02:09:18)
You heard nothing about it since
then?
10
TYRON ALI:
11
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
12
TYRON ALI:
13
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
14
All
No.
It just -Tyrone.
Mmm-hmm.
Is that your first name or last
name?
15
TYRON ALI:
Yes.
16
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
17
TYRON ALI:
18
The staff just gives me all kinds of
What's your last name?
There you go.
19
grief about not carrying ID.
The first day I came
20
up, he was, like, why aren't you carrying your ID?
21
I said, okay.
You going to give me that --
117
thanks.
I said, where is yours?
3
4
You going to give me that kind of grief?
I saw him in his Army fatigues at the

Italian Bistro.
(02:09:51)
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:
8
9
10
11
He goes, right here.
Mike Sant?
Yeah.
I like him.
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:
Every time I do a Comcast interview
-- [inaudible] --
13
RON WATERS:
16
17
18
Yeah.
I do them all the time.

Those are -- you know,
always helpful.
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
remember a word I said.
TYRON ALI:
People tell me they can't
But, that is okay.
(02:10:15)
Cody asked him to be on the show,
so did Louise.
19
You want to be on Cody's --
20
RON WATERS:
21
He
Mmm-hmm.
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
15
He is on TV a lot.
was on Comcast.
12
14
This was awhile back.
Shucks, man.
I got the super --
-- [inaudible] -- want me to interview him on the radio.
118
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
No, Wetzel's his name.

Wetzel.
I forgot to call my
granddaughter tonight.
RON WATERS:
it on her show.
this Sunday.
9
10
Gargolla?
I meant to ask Louise if we can do
Because he going to be in town
TYRON ALI:
charge of the prisons?
What's the Italian guy that's in

Gargolla?
11
RON WATERS:
Philly prison?
12
TYRON ALI:
13
RON WATERS:
14
thought you meant state prison.
Yeah, it's Philly.

No, that's Philly prison.
15
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
16
TYRON ALI:
17
Gambolla.
Gambolla.
That's it.
That's it.
Interesting character, man.
18
RON WATERS:
19
TYRON ALI:
20
for?
Ron Cowie.
21
fired him.
Yeah.
(02:10:52)
You know who I always felt sorry
He called me that night Nutter
He said, Tyron, I can't believe this
119
just happened.
I said --
RON WATERS:
But he had a relapse.
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:[inaudible]-- Because he had a relapse
TYRON ALI:
He didn't tell me that part, Ron.
Because I asked Gillison, I said what
did you guys do with Cowie?
Tyron, you know how it is.
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
10
11
RON WATERS:
He was, like, no,
Cowie?
Cowie, Cowie.
I heard he had a relapse.
in a program.
12
TYRON ALI:
13
RON WATERS:
He was.
He was.
(02:11:22)
And he had, you know, totally
14
kicked his addiction habit.
15
up again with these girls or something.
16
17
No offense,
baby.
TYRON ALI:
19
RON WATERS:
21
He said he got caught
Girls can bring you down.
18
20
He was
The woman is the key to everything.

That's right.
They can lift you
up.
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
I would like to think so.
120
think that is not true.
TYRON ALI:
I think it --
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
Can't make money -- we can't
even get health care.
can, they are going to end all accessibility to
abortion in this state.
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
9
10
11
12
13
14
They are going to end -- if they
(02:11:56)
No.
Well, as far as some of the folks
in D.C. are concerned, Planned Parenthood does 90

percent of the abortions.
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
be factually correct.
TYRON ALI:
Right.
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
16
RON WATERS:
18
19
20
21
From a spokesperson, that
was hysterical.
15
17
I didn't mean that statement to
Disgusting.
Disgusting.
You know the thing -- the secretary
of corrections -TYRON ALI:

policy issues?
State government.
So, you oversee
(02:12:27)
RON WATERS:
General Services.
Well, we oversee Department of
So, I was working for about
121
four years on getting better state contracting
opportunities for small and medium-sized
businesses.
minorities.
And, particularly, women and
We oversee elections, the part of the
state department that does elections.
So, for
four years I worked on removing barriers to
voting.
them, I want to remove them.
You know, the republicans want to erect
10
(02:13:00)
We oversee the Pennsylvania Human
11
Relations Commission.
12
for the first time ever.
13
rights, civil rights bill.
Which is being
14
introduced again tomorrow.
But, of course, the
15
republicans have no interest.
16
in power again.
17
So, I moved onto the floor

Last session, LGTB
We have to get back
We do constitutional amendments.
So, I
18
just threatened to kill the one against gay
19
marriage and they killed it themselves in the
20
senate because they knew I would never move it.
21
(02:13:34)
122
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
Do you remember Susan Higginbotham?

Sort of.
Sort of.
She used to run the LGTB Center on
13th and Pine, 13th and Walnut.
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
TYRON ALI:
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
TYRON ALI:
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
Probably --
I haven't seen her in many years.

Spruce.
Spruce.
Spruce, yeah.
It is William Way.
10
TYRON ALI:
I haven't seen her in a long time.
11
TYRON ALI:
It's in the district.
12
TYRON ALI:
Yeah.
13
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
14
put a face with a name.
15
TYRON ALI:
16
very nice.
17
issues.
18
I don't know if I ever could
But I know her name.
She is very nice.
Very caring.
She was very,
Well educated on her
(02:15:05)
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
So, we also do -- it is sort of
19
a toss-up between judiciary and us on
20
constitutional amendments.
21
constitution --
So, we had some other
123
1
2
RON WATERS:
Let me find out.
try to --
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
-- tried to make a no excuse,
that absentee balloting a reality.
the constitution that is a problem.
So, what else do we do?
RON WATERS:
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
9
10
I'll call Dave,
jurisdictions.
Because it is in
Needless to say -All kinds of things in the
Over -- the boxing -- some boxing
commissions.
11
We did some sort of bill to make some
12
teenage boxers, girls as well as boys, box in New
13
Jersey and Ohio and New York, some damn thing.
14
just had prime -- we do a lot of land transfers.
15
I made friends among republicans, I think, who
16
don't like the way Daryl is treating me, because I
17
have no problem with land.
18
land, I don't care.
19
republican district.
20
away.
21
You want to trade
I don't care if it is a
All right.
We'll transfer
(02:15:16)
RON WATERS:
Daryl -- Daryl Metcalf?
124
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
No, when I made friends with
some republicans, because for four years I was doing
all those land conveyances.
are all thank you, thank you, you helped me more
than the other republicans, you were great.
I don't care.
So, now they are watching Daryl treat me
like shit.
whether they have enough nerve to stop.
(02:15:39)
I don't think they like it.
10
RON WATERS:
11
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
12
And they
We'll see
You know, though -To make them stop.
Because
they are scared of them.
13
RON WATERS:
-- [inaudible] --
14
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
15
RON WATERS:
16
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
17
RON WATERS:
He treated me terribly.
The way he ran that committee.

Horrible.
He was in majority -- he was nasty.
18
He talks all nice and soft.
But he -- I did not
19
like him.
20
because I did not like the way he was treating our
21
chair.
I didn't even want to come to meetings,
You know, like what I wanted.
(02:16:03)
125
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
One time -- that is exactly
right.
English, when I was in the minority, I beat him on
making English the official language.
He had -- he had his gavel.
When I beat him --
I counted -- I knew I had all my votes.
I thought I had two of his.
moved to table the bill.
to kill it, you know, except I didn't -- I wasn't
quite sure and we tabled it and never came up
10
again.
11
As it turned out, I
And I would have moved
(02:16:33)
After that meeting, he had the gavel
12
like this over his shoulder, dangling it.
13
said, oh, Babette, and he held out his hand.
14
was standing there looking at him like this.
Of
15
course my hand wasn't there.
16
17
RON WATERS:
He did what?
He did what?
He hit
you?
18
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
19
RON WATERS:
20
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
21
And he
gesture. Clements.
He tried.
Who did?
He made a very threatening
After I beat him -- after I beat him on
126
one of the bills.
I think it was English only.
He is standing there with his gavel like
this and he held out his hand to me.
Babette, take my hand.
stood there, it was crazy, looking at him.
in his hand.
things.
You know, it is one of those
But that is how I interpreted that.
(02:17:24)
11
RON WATERS:
12
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
He is one of those fanatics.

Just a lot -- I have had a lot
of those gestures of anger --
14
TYRON ALI:
15
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
16
It was
I don't really care to be threatened.

just don't like it.
13
And I just
You knew what he was trying to do.
10
You know.
He said,
Really?
-- directed at me by men.
I can't think of a democrat.
All republicans.
17
Henry Hager, remember him?
18
TYRON ALI:
19
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
No.
And
Maybe not.
(02:17:42)
You are young.
I guess he was
20
-- Senator who really ushered in the permanent kind of
21
dominance of the republicans in the senate, which
127
seems to be endlessly permanent.
He -- he left and went to the insurance
industry.
money.
Hager, he -- he had some Merc -- they called him
Merc, because H-3 or something, his initials were
HHH, it is the chemical sign for mercury, I don't
know.
He came in to a tremendous amount of
I guess he is still alive.
Somehow.
His -- Henry
But very tall, skinny guy.
And standing next to him, I was just
10
right -- I was a freshman with my shorter and
11
smaller than me even assistant secretary,
12
whatever, she was Caucasian, but very dark.
13
am standing next to her, looking -- Henry Hager.
14
And I look at her face, it was, like, completely
15
drained of color.
16
a minute, I just thought, oh, her eyes and lips
17
got some enormous.
18
drained right out of her face.
19
because she was looking up, and Henry Hager had
20
his hand like this.
21
here over my head.
And I
Which I couldn't figure out for
But then I realized the color

And I looked up,
And he stopped it right about
128
RON WATERS:
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
that.
(02:19:15)
And she could see he was doing
That's why --
4
5
Wow.
RON WATERS:
Did he chair a committee or
something?
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
Something.
Maybe he was
lobbying for the insurance industry.
something to me about, I certainly hope you are up here,
because he knew me from lobbying, I have lobbied for
Because he said
10
various public interest groups.
11
or something, he said, I certainly hope you are going
12
to do everything I say.
13
I am looking -- changed her name to
14
August.
15
like, crumple up on the ground.
16
followed her eyesight.
17
18
And she looked like she was going to,

And then I
-- [inaudible] --
(02:19:55)
Those were the two big gestures that I

didn't care for very much.
19
TYRON ALI:
20
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
21
Now that you are up here
National Board
You were a lobbyist yourself?

Well, I advocated for the
-- [inaudible] --
That's what I do.
I put
129
it all together back in Philly in about -- right after
the Supreme Court decision, really.
around '76, '77.
together, I had to come up here.
here and saw what awful stuff went on, I just sort
of had run.
Like, around
And then I -- after I put it

After I came up
(02:20:32)
My ward leader at the time, the state
rep from the district, was Norman Berson.
friend.
He was a
I never would have run against him.
But
10
in the reapportionment of '82, they smooshed our
11
districts together.
12
the Sam Rappaport who died, the Sam Rappaport who
13
is still alive, they were both in real estate,
14
became the rep there in '82.
15
beat him in '84.
And Sam Rappaport, he is not
I ran in '82.
And I
16
So, I have been there since.
17
is about the same level of slime I would expect.
18
(02:21:08)
19
TYRON ALI:
Yeah.
20
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
21
TYRON ALI:
Wow.
Actually.
And Vern
130
1
2
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
the last one.
But they are --
TYRON ALI:
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
He is a little smoother than
They are cut from the same cloth.

Pretty much.
(02:21:18)
TYRON ALI:
One of my friends are DPW said, Ty,
you going to lobby now and run for senate?
said, no.
9
10
RON WATERS:
13
Why not?
You'll be around most of
the time.
11
12
Pretty much.
TYRON ALI:
No, no, no.
Right.
No.
(02:21:32)
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
So, that wouldn't surprise me.
14
There are some people who have genuine
15
neighborhood groups.
16
TYRON ALI:
17
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
18
TYRON ALI:
19
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
20
TYRON ALI:
21
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
Sure, sure.
You know, who do --
You are doing a great job.

Who do really good work.
You always have, you know.

Who I would be upset if --
131
TYRON ALI:
Can I share something with you?
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
TYRON ALI:
Sure.
(02:21:49)
And we took issue with it last
year.
But nobody said anything because they don't
know how to say it.
me, 2400 Chestnut Street.
But now that they've hired
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
TYRON ALI:
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
That apartment was there --
All Indian people.

All Indian people?
10
TYRON ALI:
All from the University of
11
Pennsylvania Drexel.
Lots of graduate students.
12
(02:22:15)
13
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
14
RON WATERS:
15
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
16
Now, that's -- now there's --
Wow.
Oliver Dutton.
Not an Indian
person.
17
TYRON ALI:
Clearly.
18
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
I think he lives there.
19
think Allison Schwartz.
Where does Allison live?
20
the Allison Schwartz, the Allison Schwartz.
21
Spelled the same way.
But I think she is --
I
Not
132
TYRON ALI:
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
TYRON ALI:
that live over there.
(02:22:45)
There are lots of Indian people

But they do not know you.
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
No, I would love to come have
you introduce me to them.
TYRON ALI:
Sure.
10
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
11
TYRON ALI:
12
No, I think she is the
committee person there.
Not the congresswoman?
you.
I'll do that.
I'll put something together for
(02:22:56)
13
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
I would love to do that.
14
I do these reports from Harrisburg,
15
where I just try and have a discussion, really,
16
more than anything else.
17
Let's see.
18
But I like to do this a lot.
19
206 South 23rd Street.
20
21
Which Allison is she?
She was -- I
don't know which building that is.

RON WATERS:
What are you doing on your phone?
133
Is that a Blackberry or what?
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
Trying to figure out whether I
know somebody in this building that's supposed to be
all full of Indians.
an Indian.
6
7
But I am not sure -- (02:23:44)

TYRON ALI:
There is a lot of graduate students
at 2400 Chestnut Street who are all Indians.
8
9
I know Oliver Dutton's not
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
But where are they registered
to vote?
10
RON WATERS:
11
TYRON ALI:
12
Maybe you can do a registration drive.
13
Mmm-hmm.
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
TYRON ALI:
17
RON WATERS:
18
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
20
21
They are not citizens if
they are Indian.
16
19
Right there on the corner.
That is a place to start.
14
15
Isn't that an apartment building?
Hey, I resemble that comment.

-- [inaudible] -You said they are Indians.
(02:24:04)
TYRON ALI:
been for a long time.
Yeah, but I am a citizen.
Have
134
RON WATERS:
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
You have -Native American Indians, you
mean?
TYRON ALI:
No, my dad's actually from India.
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
Yeah, Asian Indians.
If you
are an Indian from India, it is very likely you are an
Indian citizen, unless you are not an Indian
citizen. (02:24:24)
TYRON ALI:
You know what?
That might have
10
been true 15 years ago.
11
Indian kids who are below the age of 25 were
12
actually born here.
13
Malayalam, they speak Tamil, they speak Hindi.
14
(02:24:40)
15
Today, a lot of the
But they still speak
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
Well, if they are citizens and
16
they are registered to vote, some of them, I would like
17
to go.
18
TYRON ALI:
But even if they are not citizens,
19
they are in your district.
20
are citizens.
21
22
23
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
Their family members
I got to do a little bit of
triage.
TYRON ALI:
Of course.
That is what I am
135
trying to get across to you.
(02:24:59)
3
4
5
Thank you.
Besides that, all the Seven-Eleven

owners, man.
I told Vince, I said, listen.
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
They are all Koreans.
thought they were all Koreans?
TYRON ALI:
I told Vince --
RON WATERS:
Seven-Eleven?
No.
They are Vietnamese.
10
TYRON ALI:
11
I told Vince, I said, hey, listen.
Yeah, Vietnamese.
Now,
12
when you pay attention to us, you know I always
13
bring our folks out.
14
us, everybody stays home.
15
am going to meet with you guys.
You don't pay attention to
16
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
17
TYRON ALI:
18
meeting with you.
19
apples now?
20
21
Okay.
He goes no, no, no.
(02:25:33)
Yeah.
Okay.
How is that?
Now I don't feel like
You like them
See, before -- before, there were

certain -- you know when you are now making your
136
name, you got to go through some stuff, you got to
get some stuff done.
where I am in control.
But now I am in a situation

Which is always helpful.
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
TYRON ALI:
the phone and say hello, it is me.

RON WATERS:
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
10
11
TYRON ALI:
If you speak to my chief of
Can I share something with you,
Miss Josephs?
13
TYRON ALI:
Okay.
The day I call your chief of staff,
I am no longer Indian.
15
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
16
TYRON ALI:
17
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
18
TYRON ALI:
19
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
21
Right, right.
staff, whose card I will give you also --
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
20
How are you?
Right, right.
12
14
(02:25:56)
Especially when I can just pick up
Yes.
I will call you.

-- up hooking up to her anyway.
Oh, no.
schedule is or anything.
TYRON ALI:
Well, if you call me, you end -
Because I don't know what my

(02:26:24)
Well, we'll get through the
137
scheduling portion.
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
That's what she does.
RON WATERS:
Do you still have Tara down
Oh.
there?
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
RON WATERS:
Okay.
(02:26:31)
Tara -- what is her last
name again?
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
RON WATERS:
10
11
Yeah.
Hannah-Taliaferro.
Yeah, she is the Hannah.
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
But her husband is Taliaferro.
I think in her real life she uses Taliaferro.
12
RON WATERS:
That is exactly right.
13
worked at the Parking Authority she used
14
Taliaferro?
15
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
16
office.
17
she just sticks with Hannah.

RON WATERS:
19
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
20
21
But it is too much name for the
People can't remember it.
18
beautiful.
Okay.
When she
So, I think
She is a very nice person.

Oh, she is wonderful.
She is
(02:26:56)
RON WATERS:
I am very impressed with her.
138
heard you had her.
She used to be a ticket writer
at the Parking Authority.
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
Yeah.
Oh, really?
Now she is working for her -We give her -- we give her all
the parking problems.
RON WATERS:
BABETTE JOSEPHS: She knows a lot of people there.
10
TYRON ALI:
11
guys used to put in.
12
13
RON WATERS:
It sticks with you.
14
15
TYRON ALI:
remember it.
16
She remembers all that stuff?
She knows all the codes that you
You don't forget that stuff, man.

(02:27:18)
It is -- it is torturous to
But then you don't forget it.
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
It is funny about buildings,
17
that you say there are a lot of Indians in that
18
building.
19
TYRON ALI:
20
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
21
Mmm-hmm.
At 22 South 22nd Street, Sydney
Hillman, there is a lot of Chinese.
I am told
139
they are Chinese.
barrier.
3
4
4
5
There is a big cultural
RON WATERS:
Across from the Goodwill?
[inaudible] -BABETTE JOSEPHS:

Retirement Home.
RON WATERS:
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
RON WATERS:
9
10
It is the old -- [inaudible] --
Name is on the -PNC.
PNC is on Chesapeake.
--
[inaudible] -- (02:27:54)
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
Well, it is a joint before.
11
is -- [inaudible] -- -- joint boards.
12
They are involved in all that.
13
TYRON ALI:
14
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
15
RON WATERS:
All this fighting.
(02:28:08).
Where they had --- [inaudible] --
But, you know, I pass the facility
16
you talking about, I see lot of white people in
17
that facility.
18
TYRON ALI:
19
RON WATERS:
It
Mmm-hmm.
Because I watch -- I used to patrol
20
those people -- [inaudible] --
21
TYRON ALI:
Trust me when I tell you, the walls
140
reek of curry.
(02:28:24)
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
Really?
Yes.
Yes.
Because you'll see a
lot of them -- a lot of the graduate students that
are coming in from New York or that kind of thing,
and they have been accepted to Penn, they are -- a
lot of them are housed in that building.
8
9
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
TYRON ALI:
11
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
12
is where I grew up.
13
with cars.
14
is a very big city.
15
Are you?
You can hear it.
That
That is why I don't think Philadelphia
RON WATERS:
(02:28:58)
You know that about her.
She does
not drive.
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
18
RON WATERS:
I have no patience for that.
She walks and catches public
transportation.
20
21
Yeah.
That is why I have no patience
17
19
So.
I am a New Yorker.
10
16
So they are New Yorkers.
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
York.
That is from living in New
New Yorkers don't deal with this stuff.
It is too
141
much trouble.
enough to live in New York than deal with those
big machines.
4
5
It is too expensive.
It is hard
(02:29:20)
TYRON ALI:
There are a lot of license plates
in Philly from New York.
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
Oh.
Because they -- at one point, we
had a client of ours, Jewish fella, he heads up
the synagogue up there in Huntington Valley.
10
they were buying real estate like crazy.
11
doling out millions of dollars in a month.
12
cash.
13
14
TYRON ALI:
16
RON WATERS:
17
TYRON ALI:
19
20
21
Of
Sound like the Marcellus Shale
Snagging all that property.
15
18
I mean,
You know.
RON WATERS:
people.
And
(02:29:57)
Did you read the Patriot yesterday?

No, I didn't.
They said that a beaver had gnawed
through the terra cotta.

BABETTE JOSEPHS:
That's what caused the last
explosion, the beaver?

TYRON ALI:
No, the last water main break.
142
RON WATERS:
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
RON WATERS:
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
RON WATERS:
Oh.
Oh, oh.
-- [inaudible] --.
They had a hearing on that.

Water main break?
No, just the effects that the
Marcellus Shale is going to have --
TYRON ALI:
Make sure it is not radioactive
material they are using and used in the hydro
fracking.
10
RON WATERS:
Yeah.
11
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
(2:30:25)
It is hard.
It is hard to
12
figure out where the radioactivity comes from.
13
they are beginning to look at heightened levels
14
from Fukushima.
15
16
TYRON ALI:
It is amazing.
Absolutely amazing.
You know, at some point --
17
BABETTE JOSEPHS: That is interesting.
18
RON WATERS:
19
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
20
RON WATERS:
21
Because
do a couple days.
We should.
We should.
Because --
We should get Mike to do it.
Right.
Exactly.
-- [inaudible] --
Do a policy.
And
143
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
RON WATERS:
We got to do it -- I want to do it
downtown.
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
RON WATERS:
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
10
But --
-- [inaudible] --
(02:30:58)
That would just explode it.
RON WATERS:
Yeah.
We need to talk about if the
water is coming down to Philly, coming down to

Philly.
11
And we need to know how -BABETTE JOSEPHS:
Of course, in New York they
12
stopped all that drilling because the water goes to New
13
York.
14
them in New York.
They decided they didn't want to poison

(02:31:16)
15
RON WATERS:
16
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
17
RON WATERS:
19
do a hearing on that.
21
Right.
We need --
Also, New York has the best
water in the world.
18
20
We
should hear about.
8
9
-- [inaudible] -- -- breaks --
We need to find out -- we need to
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
You can wash with soap.
I am charged.
Open the tab.
You can wash your hair with
144
soap.
RON WATERS:
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
- it is soft water.
5
6
RON WATERS:
We don't have soft water in Philly.
RON WATERS:
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
You just drink it.
drink it now in Philly because I give up.
14
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
I just
I am used to it.
-- [inaudible] -The detergent, when you do wash
in the washing machine, you can do it with soap.
16
RON WATERS:
17
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
I use detergent.
Well, in Philly, you have to.
Otherwise you get scum wash.
19
RON WATERS:
20
TYRON ALI:
21
Took me years
just drink it?
RON WATERS:
18
No, very hard.
So the tap water in New York, you
13
15
New Yorkers --
to be able to drink the water after I moved here.
11
12
It is wonderful.
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
9
10
Because there was a soft hair -
(02:31:37)
7
8
Wow.
kitchens.
(02:32:10)
Yeah.
You can see it particularly in the
145
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
mineral in the water.
soft.
RON WATERS:
Yeah, because there is so much
New York, it is all very
That is why I refuse to drink the
tap water in Philly.
give it to my daughter, but they said she not
getting enough fluoride because it doesn't come in
spring water.
I buy the bottled water, I
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
There is also not much control
10
over what goes into bottled water or how it is bottled
11
or anything.
12
idea what you are drinking.
There is no oversight.
13
RON WATERS:
14
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
15
RON WATERS:
17
devil you don't know.
19
That is true.
(02:32:37)
At least you know the
carcinogens in city water, right?
16
18
Right.
You have no
TYRON ALI:
The devil you know, the better the
Right?
Isn't that the truth.
Isn't that the truth.
20
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
21
TYRON ALI:
All right.
(02:32:49)
You have to call me.
Let me know
146
when you are having a fundraiser so we can
definitely be in touch.
You have my cell phone number?
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
TYRON ALI:
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
fundraiser.
Thank you so much for dinner.

I am trying to find a
That is what I am trying to do.
TYRON ALI:
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
10
interested right now.
11
primary is over.
What do you mean?

A person -- people aren't
I have to wait until this
All the political --
12
TYRON ALI:
13
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
14
TYRON ALI:
15
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
16
TYRON ALI:
17
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
18
TYRON ALI:
19
Yes.
That is not true.

-- folks --
Some people are still interested.

In raising money?
Of course.
That's what I do.
That is what you do.
That is what I do.
do, actually.
20
RON WATERS:
21
TYRON ALI:
Okay.
But I love it.
That is all I
147
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
RON WATERS:
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
TYRON ALI:
Indian rally for you.
11
Indian group.
12
Yeah.
(02:33:28)
As my dad says, I live all over.

Well --
I tell him.
I tell him.
Let's arrange for us to get --
Sure.
Oh, get you to meet with
We'll set up a little
You'll have your own little
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
13
about being a vegetarian.
14
love Indian food.
Listen.
I am pretty careful
I just eat plants.
But I
I eat Indian food --
15
TYRON ALI:
16
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
17
TYRON ALI:
18
I live all over.
some of the folks there.
10
You live here --
an Indian restaurant.
Oh, well, maybe we can --- whenever I have the chance.
-- do a little something for you at

That might make sense.
19
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
20
TYRON ALI:
21
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
Love it.
It is all vegetarian.
Well, it isn't.
But it can be.
148
don't eat dairy much, either.
RON WATERS:
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
RON WATERS:
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
RON WATERS:
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
RON WATERS:
(02:34:03)
You are pretty close to vegan?

Yeah, I am pretty much.
Right.
Sometimes I eat butter.
Right.
And ice cream.
She pretty much a vegan.
vegetarian go a little bit to the extreme.
10
But you will eat the Indian food?
11
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
12
RON WATERS:
13
14
15
So, her
I love Indian food.
(02:34:20)
Do they have any good restaurants
here?
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
all the time and it closed.
16
TYRON ALI:
17
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
18
TYRON ALI:
19
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
20
TYRON ALI:
21
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
Yeah, they had one I went to

I tried to keep it open.
It was a deli -- New Deli?

The Taj Palace, it was called.
At the foot of the Capitol?

Deli is here.
Deli is here.
I have been there a couple
149
times.
But Taj Palace had a much more extensive --
2
3
RON WATERS:
You love Indian food, man?
(02:34:39)
I better be careful, man.
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:
careful, man.
ate it before.
different --
-- [inaudible] --- [inaudible] --
I might fall in love.
I better be
I ate it before.
I used to really experiment, all the
10
TYRON ALI:
11
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
I love it.
12
spicy.
13
spicy than people here.
I like it fairly -- fairly
Not the way the Indians eat it.
But much more
(02:35:04)
14
TYRON ALI:
15
Well, we'll think about doing that --
16
give me a call.
Yes, of course.
I am around.
17
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
18
TYRON ALI:
19
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
20
21
I will.
You like dohls?

I like dohls.
I like rice.
like -TYRON ALI:
Thank you.
Good night, hon.
150
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
I am not so a big on the Ritas
and that kind of thing, because it is dairy.
(02:35:20)
4
5
TYRON ALI:
days.
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
8
9
10
I am staying here the next couple
too.
-- [inaudible] --.
Yup.
They always take care of me.

RON WATERS:
You're a lucky guy.
You don't have
to go anywhere.
11
TYRON ALI:
12
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
13
TYRON ALI:
14
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
15
RON WATERS:
16
TYRON ALI:
17
RON WATERS:
18
TYRON ALI:
19
They gave me a nice room,
Hi, Rebecca.
I have to walk outside.
Good.
It is a nice night.
Yeah, it is a nice night.

-- [inaudible] -Yeah.
They do.
It took -- hey, I paid my
dues, right?
20
RON WATERS:
Oh.
21
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
I really would like to come
151
just talk about --
TYRON ALI:
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
RON WATERS:
We got to have a hearing, though,
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
RON WATERS:
Do a memo to him, or should we
See him tomorrow.
10
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
11
RON WATERS:
12
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
Let him know.
-- [inaudible] --
Where are we going, City Hall?

Yeah.
People can't park there.
But it is fine with me.
14
15
(02:36:00)
just go -- [inaudible] --
13
Here is what we are doing, here
on, we got to have a hearing -- [inaudible] --
7
8
We'll set something up.
is what we are doing in Harrisburg.
5
6
Oh, sure.
RON WATERS:
Where would be another place
downtown, for people to park?
16
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
They always take -- they go in
17
the convention center, I think, because they can park
18
there.
19
either been --
So, I think all policy hearings have
20
TYRON ALI:
21
RON WATERS:
-- [inaudible] -All right.
What's up?
152
1
2
Couple of my heroes right
RON WATERS:
All right.
here.
3
4
MALE VOICE:
You all right?
Good seeing you, too.
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
MALE VOICE:
TYRON ALI:
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
RON WATERS:
10
How you doing, Rep?
committee for --
How are you?
Hey, I am TJ.
Tyron Ali.
Good to see you.
How are you?
Nice to meet you.
Hey, Ty.
Nice to see you.
Yeah, he chartered the state
(02:36:42)
11
MALE VOICE:
For a little while.
12
RON WATERS:
Yeah.
13
MALE VOICE:
How are you guys doing?
14
BABETTE JOSEPHS: Long time.
15
what?
16
MALE VOICE:
17
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
18
RON WATERS:
19
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
20
MALE VOICE:
21
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
22
Now you are onto,
think.
(02:37:03)
Different things.
Different things.
Yeah.
Not like us, stuck in limbo.
There is -- -- [inaudible] -That is what the public doesn't
153
1
2
RON WATERS:
We got to get the -- have a -- you
said the convention center?
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
Convention center, and then the
other place I was at was Independence Visitor
Center at Sixth and Chestnut.
There must be parking at both those
places because Mike Sturla had people from all
over the state from policy at that voucher's
hearing.
10
RON WATERS:
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
11
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
There were, like, 15 people.
12
Mark Langella was there, and Mike Carroll.
13
all parking place.
14
RON WATERS:
15
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
16
instructions.
17
sure they had some.
18
19
We'll find out.
They were
Right, right.
I don't know.
I don't pay attention.
I get parking
But I am
States -- so, those two places must have

parking.
(02:37:44)
20
RON WATERS:
Okay.
21
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
Because -- and Sturla can
154
figure out --
2
3
RON WATERS:
He'll figure out where they have
it.
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
He seems like someone you could
probably talk to.
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
10
11
I think it is important that we
have --
7
8
RON WATERS:
invite --
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
13
RON WATERS:
it out.
I like Mike.
-- locally.
Or -- they can figure
I am sure they've done this stuff --
15
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
16
RON WATERS:
17
Oh, Mike is a great guy.
We'll figure out who we want to
12
14
Yeah.
Yeah.
He's having a hearing this
Thursday, Pasquez, in York.
18
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
19
RON WATERS:
20
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
21
RON WATERS:
Yes, in York.
(02:38:06)
Dealing with Marcellus Shale?

Yeah.
We'll talk with him, too, see who
155
they are inviting to talk about -- but we want to
talk about the possibility of the contaminants
flowing down from the western part of the state to
the eastern part of the state.
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
You know what else we have to
keep hitting and hitting and hitting this immigration
stuff that's coming at us very soon.
RON WATERS:
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
10
Really?
(02:38:27)
I think so.
I think Daryl's
going to start with his anchor babies --
11
RON WATERS:
Right.
12
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
13
RON WATERS:
14
know, ET is now here.
--[inaudible]-- Arizona law?
-- and martians invading.
Yeah, illegal aliens, man.
15
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
16
RON WATERS:
17
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
18
except there is a -- I have Googled.
19
Pittsburgh bedroom community, very high income,
20
called Cranberry Township, which has increased in
21
the last decade or so from 10,000 to 30 or 40.
You
I know.
Those guys -- he -- [inaudible] -Well, it is mostly rural,

There is a
156
1
2
RON WATERS:
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
down there.
5
6
(02:39:14)
And I -- -- [inaudible] -- -- represented as a

democrat.
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
11
Yeah, because they built a road
So, it just exploded.
10
That is a hell of an
increase.
3
4
Wow.
Where you parked?

Right here.
Second car.
Okay.
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
So, I -- -- [inaudible] -- --
much more reasonable -- [inaudible] --
12
RON WATERS:
13
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
14
There is a bedroom community of
15
Down here?
-- [inaudible] --- [inaudible] --
(02:39:52)
corporate republicans.
16
RON WATERS:
Okay.
17
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
I am sure they will vote
18
republican from Cranberry Township.
19
how -- -- [inaudible] -Yeah, yeah.
But they have no idea
20
RON WATERS:
They have no idea.
21
BABETTE JOSEPHS: They don't know that [inaudible]
157
RON WATERS:
-- [inaudible] --
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
RON WATERS:
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
Most of them are harmless.
Right.
They are pushing -- the Butler
County website is pushing all these agriculture
products.
RON WATERS:
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
Right.
And why do they want Daryl?
The farmers, they want illegal immigrants, right?
10
RON WATERS:
11
BABETTE JOSEPHS:
12
TYRON ALI:
13
It was very nice seeing you again.
14
RON WATERS:
15
TYRON ALI:
16
RON WATERS:
17
TYRON ALI:
18
RON WATERS:
19
20
21
Yeah.
They do the work.

-- [inaudible] --
Illegal or otherwise.
(02:40:33)
They do the work.

Take good care.
They do cheap labor, man.
Hey, we are not that cheap.
Those Mexicans are.
They got the
Mexicans working for Marcellus shale.

BABETTE JOSEPHS:
Of course.
can't be worried about -- [inaudible] --
So, those guys
158
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:
No, no.
Bye-bye.
I am rolling out of here.
(02:40:57)
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
She is a piece of work.

Thanks, Babette.
Thank you for dinner.
Thank you, dear.
Bye-bye.
10
RON WATERS:
Yeah.
11
TYRON ALI:
12
Really?
13
RON WATERS:
14
TYRON ALI:
15
get rid of her for awhile now.
She got --
Listen, man.
You said she got -- [inaudible] -Oh, Vern, yeah.
They are trying to
(02:41:11)
16
But listen.
Call Paula in the morning.
17
RON WATERS:
Okay.
18
TYRON ALI:
Call me back and let me know what
19
the deal is, because I got to call these guys, get
20
that money in.
21
RON WATERS:
Okay.
159
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
All right?
All right.
Thanks, Ron.
We'll do it man.
All right.
We will do it.
I'll call you tomorrow afternoon.
You, too.
You know I got you.
All right.
(02:41:30)
(02:42:10)
TYRON ALI:
Hey there.
I am walking towards
10
you.
11
I'll be right there.
12
(02:42:27)
Hey there, how are you?
13
(02:42:41)
Sorry about that.
14
(02:43:02)
15
AGENT:
16
tape is being deactivated.
17
Tuesday, April 26, year 2011.
18
19
20
21
I just walked him and Babette to his car.

(02:42:14)
Current time, 2203 hours.
(02:43:21)
This
Again, on this date,
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______________________________
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Angela N. Kilby, Notary Public
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3 Penn Square
19107-3499
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T-84 May 16th 2011
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Transcribed by:
(May 16, 2011)
(00:02)
CLAUDE THOMAS:
Attorney General, Badge No. 118, A Certification
No. A-1418.
2011.
8
9
Today's date is Monday, May 16, Year
Current time is 17:08 hours.

between CI 2010-01 and Rep RW.
Rep RW will be
10
called at area code 267-246-6185.
11
reference to Investigation No. 36-622.
12
(01:22)
13
RON WATERS:
14
TYRON ALI:
15
RON WATERS:
16
TYRON ALI:
17
RON WATERS:
18
TYRON ALI:
19
RON WATERS:
20
TYRON ALI:
21
This is in
(00:48)
Yes.
Hey, Ron.
Hey.
Hey, it's Tyron.
How are you?
What's up, Ali?

How are you, sir?
I am all right, man.
Good man, you doing the people's
work? You in Harrisburg?
1
2
RON WATERS:
No, I am doing the people's work in
Philly, running around.
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:
Philly.
Yeah.
People four -- you know, I
am the fourth chair, so I am taking care of some
ward things right now.
TYRON ALI:
(01:47)
Listen, man.
There are a couple of
votes that are going to be coming up in the next
week or so.
Umm, are you going to be up in
10
Harrisburg?
I may need your help.
11
12
RON WATERS:
this week.
13
TYRON ALI:
14
RON WATERS:
15
TYRON ALI:
16
17
I'll be up there next week, not
You'll be up here next week?
Okay.
-- [inaudible] -How you making up with setting up
that meeting with Thomasina?

RON WATERS:
Oh, that's fine, man.
She wants to
18
get together for awhile the other day.
So, its just a
19
a matter of us -- she came to Harrisburg, she
20
called me the first day she was up, she came, she was
21
supposed to come up on Tuesday, she came up on Monday,
22
but she did call me.
But what happened, she said she will
call me back but she never did.
And she apologized for it.
of stuff came up, and --
4
5
We can meet her, go out with her, sit

down and talk.
6
7
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
10
RON WATERS:
I can ask her.

All right.
She wants to, she acts like she
really care about my future, man.
12
13
Do you think we can meet her in
Philadelphia this week?
11
But, you know a lot
TYRON ALI:
Well, good.
So, umm -This is a great way
for her to help you with your future.
14
RON WATERS:
15
TYRON ALI:
16
I am not kidding you, Ron.
17
Yeah [laughing].
You got to
sit her down, man.
18
Look, I am going to call you tomorrow
19
afternoon.
See what you can do about maybe
20
Thursday or Friday having lunch with her.
21
right?
I'll pick up the bill.
All
We'll take her
someplace nice.
Grille.
Maybe we'll go to the Capital
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
head.
in this.
Okay.
Just put that in the back of your
You know, you eat, I eat.
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:
Were partners
Okay.
Please, I would say we probably
10
shouldnt take her to Capital Grille.
11
there, man.
12
13
TYRON ALI:
So, you want to go to
the Palm then?
14
15
All right.
Everybody goes
RON WATERS:
there, understand?
16
Yeah we can, no everybody goes
[Inaudible].
TYRON ALI:
Wherever you like to go.
If you
17
want to go down to one of the Stephen Starr restaurants,
18
or if you want to go someplace out in West Philly.
19
Call me between tomorrow and the next day and let
20
me know.
21
22
RON WATERS:
-- [inaudible] --
Where all those
people go, I just dont want to take her there, okay?
TYRON ALI:
I understand.
But, Ron, try to make this a priority,
man, so that we can -- you know, I have some
money.
to help me.
I'd like to give it to you.
But you got
You know?
RON WATERS:
You going to check with me on Wednesday,
right?
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:
11
TYRON ALI:
primary.
I'll call her.
Tomorrow --
10
12
All right.
Right.
Right.
Right.
So, I'll give her a call.

Okay.
So, the day after the
All right, great.
13
RON WATERS:
Yes.
14
TYRON ALI:
15
RON WATERS:
16
TYRON ALI:
17
I'll let you know which votes we are
I'll call you Wednesday afternoon.

All right.
All right, Ron.
Thanks, man.
18
going to need some help with when I talk to you
19
maybe Wednesday or Thursday.
20
RON WATERS:
21
TYRON ALI:
Okay.
All right.
See if you can set up that lunch
Thursday or Friday afternoon.
let me know.
All right.
RON WATERS:
Just call me and
Thanks.
All right.
(4:35)
4
5
CLAUDE THOMAS:
Tape is being deactivated.
Again, today's date, Monday, May 16, Year 2011.
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(04:55)
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______________________________
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19107-3499
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T-88 May 23rd, 2011
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Transcribed by:
(May 23, 2011)
(00:05)
TYRON ALI:
How are you?
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
Hey there sir, good morning.
Good morning.
Good, man.
How you doing, man.
How you doing?
okay.
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
I am all right.
Good.
Listen, I am calling you
10
because I got a phone call yesterday -- actually,
11
last night.
12
RON WATERS:
13
TYRON ALI:
14
You
Okay.
(00:20)
You know the House Bill 934 that's
up for consideration this morning?
15
RON WATERS:
16
TYRON ALI:
Okay.
Actually, it might be this
17
afternoon.
I really need your help with this,
18
because you know the Indian folks that we represent,
19
they have a vested interest, particularly in your
20
area and in Vince's, to not have any further
21
pressure be put on their folks when they come out
to vote.
They are asking for additional forms of
ID beyond the voter's registration card.
really need your help on this.
(00:53)
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:
10
Oh, wow.
When I come up this afternoon, I'll
TYRON ALI:
Okay.
All right.
RON WATERS:
13
TYRON ALI:
14
All right, man.

me.
Two's
Yeah.
All right, great.
I'll bring two up with
It is House Bill 934.
16
RON WATERS:
17
TYRON ALI:
18
Is two enough?
enough?
12
15
I need a no vote.
bring something for you.
11
And I
Okay.
(01:09)
I'll see you when I come up
tonight.
19
RON WATERS:
20
TYRON ALI:
21
RON WATERS:
All right.
What time can we get together?
Uh, I don't know.
You know, I'll
be spending the night.
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
So, I'll be here.

All right.
Are you at the Crown?
No I don't stay at the Crown.

Okay.
Where are you staying?
(01:23)
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
Can we make it around 9 o'clock this
evening?
10
of.
11
after.
All right.
Then you and I, we can go out for a drink
RON WATERS:
13
TYRON ALI:
Okay.
All right.
I'll call you, like,
around 8 o'clock tonight.
15
RON WATERS:
16
TYRON ALI:
17
Okay.
Because I have one thing to take care
12
14
I stay at the Quality Inn.
soon.
Okay.
Thanks, Ron.
I'll talk to you
Bye-bye (01:43)
18
(01:52)
19
CLAUDE THOMAS:
The preceding call was recorded
20
in reference to Investigation No. 36-662.
The
21
recording or communications took place between CI
2010-01 and Rep RW.
I am Claude Thomas, Senior Supervisory
Special Agent, Pennsylvania Office of Attorney
General, Badge No. 118, Aid Certification No.
A-1418.
2011.
Today's date is Monday, May 23, Year

That recording was in reference to a
return call which was placed by the CI earlier
today to this number and no message was left on
10
the answering machine.
11
deactivated.
12
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(03:02)
This tape is now being
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______________________________
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19107-3499
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T-90 May 23rd 2011
13
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Transcribed by:
(May 23, 2011)
CLAUDE THOMAS:
Supervisory Special Agent of the Pennsylvania
Office of the Attorney General, A Certification
No. A-1418.
2011.
Today's date is Monday, May 23, year

This recording device will be placed on
CI 2010-01 in reference to Investigation No.
36-622.
10
within the confines of Harrisburg City, Dauphin
11
County, recording conversations with Rep RW in
12
reference to this investigation number.
13
14
This recording will remain active until

I deactivate it at a later time.
15
MALE VOICE:
16
TYRON ALI:
17
MALE VOICE:
18
TYRON ALI:
19
MALE VOICE:
20
TYRON ALI:
21
(05:06)
(00:49)
Hey, my man.
Hey.
(02:29)
How are you?
How you doing?

Good.
Humid out here.
Yes, it is.
(02:37)
MALE VOICE:
TYRON ALI:
MALE VOICE:
TYRON ALI:
(07:51)
TYRON ALI:
Yeah.
Your car?
No.
Friend of mine.
(05:15)
Hi, Mr. Roebuck, how are you?
(07:53)
(08:05)
TYRON ALI:
10
MALE VOICE:
11
TYRON ALI:
12
MALE VOICE:
13
(10:40)
14
MALE VOICE:
15
You waiting for somebody?
How are you doing?

Okay.
How are you?
Good.
Okay.
(8:10)
(UI) -- there's too much
going on.
16
TYRON ALI:
17
MALE VOICE:
18
TYRON ALI:
19
MALE VOICE:
20
TYRON ALI:
21
MALE VOICE:
There is always too much going on

I am tired today.
Long day?
Huh?
Long day?
It was.
How about you?
1
2
TYRON ALI:
I like my job.
I think it likes me back.
MALE VOICE:
TYRON ALI:
Wednesday.
(11:43)
MALE VOICE:
TYRON ALI:
else.
10
11
Humid out here today, huh?

Yes, it was.
(11:19)
Your friend picking you up?

No, no.
I'm waiting for somebody
I think this might be him now.
Not him.
Yeah, that's him.

(00:12:00)
13
TYRON ALI:
14
RON WATERS:
15
TYRON ALI:
Hey, sir, how are you?

Great.
Let's just take a little ride
around the block.
17
18
(11:10)
(11:48)
12
16
It's not -- it's never that hard.
How you doing, man?
You all right?
(12:12)
19
Too many people are in there.
20
RON WATERS:
21
TYRON ALI:
Yeah.
- [inaudible] --
Yeah, too many people.
1
2
RON WATERS:
I was up here earlier, man.
Temple --
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS: -- had something up here. [inaudible]
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
8
9
10
11
Yes.
Yeah, he is -[inaudible]
Pull up quick right here.
gonna do this real quick.

RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
Were
Get this out of the way.
Okay.
Here is the situation.
Its House
Resolution -- the House Bill is 934.
12
RON WATERS:
13
TYRON ALI:
14
RON WATERS:
15
TYRON ALI:
16
RON WATERS:
17
TYRON ALI:
Right.
All right.
All right.
I need a no vote.
You said this Bill does what again?
They require people to bring -- in
18
addition to the voter's registration card, they
19
want people to bring other kinds of IDs.
20
RON WATERS:
21
TYRON ALI:
Sure.
You know, were trying to put
businesses in your area.
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
Yeah.
So, that
would be helpful to us.
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:
Okay.
All right?
Okay. Alright
Oh, man. They always (UI). They try to
disenfranchise more and more. [sound of money being
10
counted]
11
TYRON ALI:
This is, look here.
This is one,
12
two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten,
13
eleven, twelve, thirteen, fourteen, fifteen,
14
sixteen, seventeen, eighteen, nineteen, twenty.
15
16
Thats two grand.

(13:42)
17
RON WATERS:
18
TYRON ALI:
19
Okay.
Just please make sure you vote no
on that.
20
RON WATERS:
21
TYRON ALI:
22
That's for you.
as we can get.
Okay.
Okay.
Because we need as much help
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
Let's go back around.
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
All right.
All right?
All right.
Thank you, brother.
I appreciate it.
That's for you, man.
All right.
All right.
Too many people are in there.
10
RON WATERS:
Yeah. (13:58)
11
TYRON ALI:
12
You up here tomorrow?
13
RON WATERS:
14
Tomorrow, as a matter of fact, one of
Yeah.
(14:03)
15
the members, he kind of organized a karaoke night
16
-- karaoke night up here.
17
members are going to [inaudible] --
18
TYRON ALI:
19
RON WATERS:
20
TYRON ALI:
21
RON WATERS:
So, yeah.
So, some
(14:13)
-- the Brick House.

No, not Brick O's, the Brick House.
I've heard of it.
He said it's around the corner.
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
11
12
RON WATERS:
election is over.
RON WATERS:
18
19
20
21
- [inaudible] --
I have to learn my way, man.
You
(14:41)
You all
Yeah, doing all right.
Glad the
That's all.
14
17
It is close to
right?
TYRON ALI:
16
Okay.
How are you doing otherwise?
13
15
Stocks on Second.
know what I mean, serious business.
9
10
Stocks on Second.
Near Stocktons, or something.
guess --
4
5
Yeah.
Kenyatta won today by 43 votes.

Yeah, yeah.
They settled.
(UI)
I dont think theres anything (14:55)

I mean, she's rich enough.
She can retire
whenever she want to.

TYRON ALI:
Which senator was meeting with the
folks from Temple today?

RON WATERS:
there, Hughes came.
Was it Shirley?
Shirley was there, Kitchen
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:
I bet.
(15:14)
Hughes came there at the end.
I got there late and I left.
I was
leaving then.
left late.
Vanessa had -- I called her, asked her what was going on
on the floor.
It is getting ugly in here.
go.
Leannas not late, they leave before me.
She said, oh, we still debating.

I said, wow, I better
She was, like can you believe [inaudible] -- (15:38)
They said, how is she on Temple?
10
she all right on Temple.
11
right.
No issues.
I said,
They said, all
(15:46)
12
TYRON ALI:
(UI) for Temple.
13
RON WATERS:
14
He was there, too.
15
TYRON ALI:
16
RON WATERS:
17
TYRON ALI:
18
RON WATERS:
(UI) (15:50)
I think now [inaudible] --
He is a lobbyist.
He is a lobbyist?
Yes.
[inaudible] -- we have Rocco there,
19
Ed Kennedy.
I don't know who the fuck was [inaudible] --
20
Most of the time George Kennedy comes lobbying for
21
Temple.
(16:28)
10
1
2
TYRON ALI:
charge.
Rocco Pugliese is the guy in
Believe me when I tell you.
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
Okay.
Okay.
All right.
All right.
Okay.
(16:35)
So, Rocco is not the kind of person
that you can reach out to.
it was [inaudible] -- reaching out and really helping
us.
10
RON WATERS:
11
TYRON ALI:
12
RON WATERS:
13
TYRON ALI:
14
15
-- to look out.
As a matter of fact,
Right.
Right.
It is just getting people to look
(16:53)
RON WATERS:
Well, they had -- most of the
16
people feel comfortable with me, they trust me.
17
They know I'm not here --
18
TYRON ALI:
19
RON WATERS:
20
TYRON ALI:
21
RON WATERS:
I know.
-- to bullshit.
Right.
11
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:
corner me and shit.
what you say.
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:
Right, right.
Like, you know, people try to
I tell them, I don't care
That's right.
I'm going to tell you the fucking
truth.
[inaudible] --
going say [inaudible] --
10
man.
You have money, then you can get something done.

If you dont have the fucking money I aint
You know?
11
TYRON ALI:
12
RON WATERS:
13
TYRON ALI:
man.
RON WATERS:
17
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:
20
TYRON ALI:
22
Ron, you know I always look out,
Okay.
All right?
It should come up
tomorrow.
19
21
And I appreciate this, man, this is
I just need a no vote on House Bill 934.
16
18
Go right here.
this is great looking out for me, brother.
14
15
I'd rather just be straight up,
All right.
I be looking for it.
Thank you, sir.
I'll be calling
you.
RON WATERS:
Ill be looking for it. (17:37)
12
1
2
TYRON ALI:
tomorrow afternoon.
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
I'll probably be calling you
All right.
Thank you.
All right.
(17:53)
TYRON ALI:
MALE VOICE:
(18:55)
Thank you, sir.

Have a good night (17:55.)
10
TYRON ALI:
11
Yes, all right.
Thank you, sir, I am ready.

Okay.
How long?
(19:10)
13
(20:06)
14
TYRON ALI:
15
MALE VOICE:
16
TYRON ALI:
17
Make it up to the Capitol today?
18
MALE VOICE:
19
Drive safe.
(17:43)
12
Thank you.
working all day.
Hi there.
How are you?
Good, how are you?

Thank you.
I did.
I was up there
Go, please.
20
TYRON ALI:
21
MALE VOICE:
I know you guys just finished up.

Yeah.
13
MALE VOICE:
TYRON ALI:
MALE VOICE:
TYRON ALI:
MALE VOICE:
TYRON ALI:
What is it?
My name's Tyron.
Russ.
Nice to meet you.
Nice to meet you.
Nice to see you again.
Take care.
(20:26)
(21:46)
TYRON ALI:
10
Ron, doll.
Hello.
Okay.
I'm walking out.
(22:20)
11
(22:23)
12
TYRON ALI:
13
FEMALE VOICE:
14
TYRON ALI:
15
Do you want me to send you an e-mail?
16
FEMALE VOICE:
17
TYRON ALI:
18
FEMALE VOICE:
19
Hi, Margo.
Hi Tina.
How are you?
Hey, how you doing?
How are you?
Yeah.
I'll send it to you tomorrow.

You know where you are
sending it to?
20
TYRON ALI:
I hope so.
21
FEMALE VOICE:
Okay.
14
TYRON ALI:
Have you seen John Galloway?
Was he
FEMALE VOICE:
But I
there?
4
5
FEMALE VOICE:
He is probably at the
lounge.
TYRON ALI:
(23:09)
10
He was there.
don't know where --
6
7
Good seeing you.
All right.
CLAUDE THOMAS:
Thanks.
(22:49)
Device is being deactivated,
11
again, on today's date, Monday, May 23, 2010.
12
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(23:25)
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______________________________
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1
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3 Penn Square
19107-3499
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T-107 April 20th 2012
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Transcribed by:
(April 20, 2012)
2
3
CLAUDE THOMAS:
the Attorney General, badge number 118.
date is Friday, April the 20th, year 2012.
time is 17:51 hours.
8
9
Today's
Current

between CI 2010-01 and Rep RW.
Rep RW will be
10
called at area code 267-246-6185.
This is in
11
12
consensual recording will be taking place at this
13
time.
This
14
(Phone ringing)
15
FIRST UNIDENTIFIED VOICE:
16
SECOND UNIDENTIFIED VOICE: (Inaudible)
17
18
SECOND UNIDENTIFIED VOICE: (Inaudible)
19
20
RON WATERS:
21
TYRON ALI:
(1:25)
It's all good.
-- right there.
(Inaudible)
Hey, it's Ron.
Hey, hey, Ron.
Happy
birthday.
How are you doing?
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
I'm doing great.

Good, man.
Good.
How you doing?

I was
really planning on making it down this evening but
I got --
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:
10
TYRON ALI:
tonight?
RON WATERS:
13
TYRON ALI:
Are you going to be down
Oh, yeah.
To uh -- to the rec center?
Is that where you're going to be?
15
RON WATERS:
16
TYRON ALI:
17
Okay.
You coming down tonight?
12
14
-- stuck because I took on a
little bit of a -- another project
11
Okay.
Yeah.
We can meet there.
Okay. I'm not to be able to
make it this evening but it may ask you this --
18
RON WATERS:
19
TYRON ALI:
Okay.
I wanted to talk to you
20
anyway.
Are you going to be up in Harrisburg on
21
Monday?
Are you coming in on Sunday night or are
you coming in on Monday?
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
I won't be there till the 30th.

Until the 30th?
Yeah
Okay.
Can we meet --
Yes.
Can we meet -- I'd like to
see if we can meet up.
would you prefer to meet down in Philadelphia?
10
11
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:
15
TYRON ALI:
Thursday?
RON WATERS:
18
TYRON ALI:
How about Tuesday or
Um -Or even Monday, right?
Because the election is Tuesday.
20
21
Uh-huh.
Which day works better for you?
17
19
We can meet in Philly up
before then?
14
16
We could meet (inaudible) before
the 30th. We could meet in Philly.
12
13
There would be okay, or
RON WATERS:
bad.
Yeah, Monday would be kind of
Wednesday may not be bad.
1
2
TYRON ALI:
Wednesday might work better
for you?
RON WATERS:
Yeah.
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS: Thursday supposed to go to the prison
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:
Okay.
All right.
So I wouldn't try Thursday
because that takes up a lot of time getting up there
and back.
10
11
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:
13
TYRON ALI:
Um -- I don't care.
You tell me.
You want to meet in your
office or do you want to meet downtown somewhere?
15
16
Where -- where do you
want to meet on Wednesday?
12
14
Okay.
RON WATERS:
matter.
17
Either -- either or.
It don't
It's -- it's up to you.

TYRON ALI:
All right.
18
lunch at The Palm or something?
19
o'clock?
How about we do
Maybe like one
On Wednesday?
20
RON WATERS:
21
TYRON ALI:
Okay.
Or is your office a little
bit quieter? Which do you think?
RON WATERS:
probably be quieter.
TYRON ALI:
down and talk to you.
working for you?
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
Uh -- well my office will
Yeah.
Yeah, I need to sit
That guy John.
Is he still
John?
John.
Is he still working
for you?
10
RON WATERS:
11
TYRON ALI:
Yeah.
Yeah, he is.
Okay.
(3:35)
Let -- I want to meet
12
with you but I'd rather meet with you, just me and
13
you.
14
figure out an easy place that we could meet that's
15
not too noisy.
So why don't I call you on -- I'm trying to
16
RON WATERS:
17
TYRON ALI:
Right.
Um -- how about up at the --
18
well, I'll tell you what.
19
office open?
What time does your
At eight o'clock?
20
RON WATERS:
21
TYRON ALI:
No.
Nine.
At nine?
Could we meet at
your office at around, say, after hours that
evening after everybody's gone? Maybe around six?
It'll give me time to get back into town anyway.
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
All right.
All right?
So I'll call you
on Wednesday at around 2 o'clock to confirm, and
then I'll see you around six p.m. at your office.
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
10
All right.
All right, Ron.
Thanks, man.
11
RON WATERS:
12
TYRON ALI:
13
Okay.
soon.
All right.
All right.
I'll see you
Happy birthday.
14
RON WATERS:
All right.
15
TYRON ALI:
16
CLAUDE THOMAS:
Thanks.
You're welcome.
Bye-bye.
Recording being deactivated.
17
Again today's date April 20th, year 2012.
18
time is 1755 hours.
19
20
21
(End of recording.)
Current
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___________________________
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3 Penn Square
19107-3499
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T-110 April 20th 2012
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Transcribed by:
(April 20, 2012)
2
3
CLAUDE THOMAS:
Attorney General, badge number 118. Today's date
is Friday, April the 20th, year 2012, current time
is 1801 hundred hours.
consensual intercept with Rep RW and CI 2010-01 in
Will be making a second
This
10
recording will take place as CI contacts RW, area
11
code 267-246-6185.
12
This recording will take place and
13
be deactivated by me at the conclusion of this
14
recording.
15
(Phone ringing sound)
16
UNIDENTIFIED VOICE:
17
The mailbox
belonging to 267-2 --
18
AGENT:
19
This tape is being deactivated.
20
(End of recording)
21
Voice Mail.
2
3
4
5
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___________________________
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3 Penn Square
19107-3499
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Investigation #36-622
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T-113
April 23, 2012
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Transcribed by:
Brenda S. Shaffer, RMR, Court Reporter
(April 23, 2012)
2
3
CLAUDE THOMAS:
This is Claude Thomas,
Senior Supervisory Special Agent, Pennsylvania Office
of Attorney General, Badge number 118, A
certification number is A1418.
7
8
9
Today's date is Monday, April the 23rd, year

2012.

We'll be placing this consensual recording
10
device on CI 2010-01 in reference to Investigation
11
Number 36-622.
12
within the confines of the City and County of
13
Philadelphia and engaging in communications with Rep
14
RW in regards to this investigation.
15
16
This recording device will remain active until I

deactivate it at a later time.
17
(Silence.)
18
TYRON ALI:
19
(11:16) Yeah.
20
RON WATERS:
21
up, Mike?
(5:41) Hey, Ron, I'm here.

Happy birthday, man.
Thank you, my brother.
Okay.
How you doing?

Hey, what's
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:
How are you doing?
Are you all right?
Oh, man, I feel good.
That car
reminds me of for some reason the movie Usual
Suspects.
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:
I don't think I've ever seen that one.

You never saw that?
No.
Oh, man, great movie, man.
Spacey, Kevin -- what's the other guy's name?
Kevin
It was
10
one of those - you must see movies.
And a guy named
11
Keyser Soze.
12
involved with some major, major money and -- it's
13
hard to describe.
14
you'll watch it from beginning to end.
15
end, he got into a car like that, you know.
There was some people that was really
16
TYRON ALI:
17
RON WATERS:
This is one movie, if you see it,

And at the
Wow.
After he had fooled everybody.
18
this?
19
if he's missing.
20
6th, so that's about three weeks ago.
21
boy.
Who is
My son is missing. (Inaudible) He's a big boy

He has been missing since April
He ain't missing.
He's a big
He out playing, you know
what I mean.
TYRON ALI:
about 30, 20.
good.
5
6
7
RON WATERS:
gone, too.
TYRON ALI:
11
RON WATERS:
All right.
You're a day
Oh, man, you know all the right things
TYRON ALI:
Just the grind, you know.
16
TYRON ALI:
See what's
(Inaudible) (13:34)
Just us here, right?
your birthday, man.

RON WATERS:
She's
So what's going on?
going to happen next week.
15
Okay.
That's for
Happy birthday.
Thank you.
I appreciate it.
One of my -- one of my friends, she --
17
I guess it's her sister.
18
over at the sheriff's office.
19
said, can you help?
21
No, I'm good, I'm
(Inaudible) office back there.
10
20
Probably
older, a day wiser, a day more handsome, too.
14
Thanks.
Yes, sir.
So how are you feeling, man?
to say, man.
13
Hello.
20, yeah, yeah.
All right.
12
Hello.
She filled out an application

She said to me, she
I said, well, I'm going to try.
And I need you to do me a favor.

important person to me.
She's an
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
9
10
You know what I'm saying?

Right.
You know?
Right.
So
Did you ever talk to Jewell?
I need your help on that,

Did you ever talk to Jewell?
You know I can't have that
conversation with Jewell.
You know I can't.
But I
know you can.
11
12
Really?
RON WATERS:
So what happened with the application?
Anything?
13
TYRON ALI:
I don't know.
I don't know.
14
name is Angela.
15
I know she filled out an application.
16
hard to find a job now.
17
to get me a job, you know.
18
RON WATERS:
Sister's
I don't know all the information, but
Right.
You know, it's
That's why I came to the man
Right.
I'll find out what he has.
Right.
I'll talk to
19
him.
Jewell, what
20
happened with him -- in the beginning of his -- when
21
he was running for office, Jewell had promised
everybody in the world a job.
And he promised so
many dang-gone jobs is anybody gonna answer this here?
(Inaudible) But, anyway, he promised everybody in the
world a job.
sheriff so bad --
He wanted a -- he wanted to be the
TYRON ALI:
Yeah.
RON WATERS:
he really had to offer.
something.
-- he promised people more than what

And he even offered me
I looked at him like, I already know you
10
got too many people offers than you have positions to
11
fill.
12
with you.
13
know. He talkin about my daughter.
14
my daughter. Im like, no, Im okay. I'm going to support
15
you.
16
I'll just look at him and ask him about Angela.
So I went to him, like, why you -- I mean, I'm

You ain't got a promise me -- I'm with you, you
But I'll find out what he got down there and
17
TYRON ALI:
18
obvious reasons.
19
RON WATERS:
20
TYRON ALI:
21
He gonna get a job for
This is really important to me for
Right.
So I'm going to make your day.
This
is a down payment on that, all right, because I need that
to happen.
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
10
one, too, for me.
11
RON WATERS:
12
TYRON ALI:
13
RON WATERS:
14
15
Okay.
I need that to happen.
Okay.
I am just so tired.
Really?
And tomorrow is the election day.
Yeah, man, we got -- we got -Ron, make sure there's a grand in that
Okay.
Make sure it is.
All right.
Im trying not to do it in
(inaudible). (Sounds of money being counted).

TYRON ALI:
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
All right.
16
there, too?
17
I think -- how do you think your neighborhood is going
18
to do with the voter situation?
19
guys will be okay?
20
RON WATERS:
21
TYRON ALI:
22
RON WATERS:
Good.
There's a grand in
Tomorrow, man, I
Do you think you
The voter turnout is going to be low.

Okay.
It's low excitement, especially in
this area.
All the races are uncontested.
Brady, President Obama.
Patrick Murphy -- but, no, he's not uncontested but
they didn't spend any money over here, you know, so I
don't know why.
money.
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
11
RON WATERS:
13
14
Who else is running?
But I know the girl Kane has lots of
Um-hmm.
Murphy has, you know, support but not
-- he can't touch her financially.
10
12
Bob
this area.
Yeah.
But that's the only contested race in
I'm running.
TYRON ALI:
Yeah.
I'm not opposed.
(17:55)
That brings me to the other
situation.
15
RON WATERS:
16
TYRON ALI:
What's that?
I don't know what may come up in the
17
House over the next 90 days, but I'll probably need
18
your help again.
19
RON WATERS:
20
TYRON ALI:
21
RON WATERS:
Okay.
You know, so -Um -- we go back.
I know theyre gonna
work on another I know they have a new angle on a
voucher bill.
vouchers and charter schools.
is that still on your radar screen?
It's like a back door way of doing it,
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:
The state stores

State stores?
Yep, yep, yep.

That's, and what else did I hear that we
going to try to work on when we get back there?
Of
course, they want to reduce the size of the
Legislature, you know, get that vote. We already voted in
10
the House, its in the Senate now.
11
anything, but if you know something going on (inaudible).
12
TYRON ALI:
13
ground, brother.
14
just -- I'm hopeful that all of the efforts that
15
we've made over the past probably the last six
16
months, that it will pay off.
17
RON WATERS:
18
TYRON ALI:
Of course.
I haven't heard much of
I keep it low to the
You know that.
I am just, I am
Okay.
You know.
I have worked tremendously
19
hard in trying to build our own coalition, you know,
20
build our own team.
21
RON WATERS:
What's happening with the -- I mean,
10
what's happening with the -- what's the issue about,
because you've been missing.
a while.
4
5
TYRON ALI:
the truck.
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
know I'm diabetic.
RON WATERS:
10
I told you what happened.
I flipped
I told you.
I haven't seen you for
TYRON ALI:
Okay.
I flipped the truck.
I was -- you
I had a couple drinks.

Um-hmm.
I flipped the truck coming back down
11
from one of the fundraisers, and my guy was following
12
me.
13
RON WATERS:
14
TYRON ALI:
15
Um-hmm.
But he wasn't -- I should have
listened to him and not, you know, not driven but --
16
RON WATERS:
17
TYRON ALI:
You were driving?

I was driving, yep.
18
alcohol level was not that much.
19
little bit over.
20
RON WATERS:
21
TYRON ALI:
But the blood
It was just a
Okay.
So I had to deal with that little
11
situation.
You know, that kind of stuff takes you
out of the loop for a little bit.
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
But it's over now so.
But I'll be
back up -- I'll be in Harrisburg tomorrow.
6
7
Okay.
RON WATERS:
No, we won't be.
Tomorrow Bill
Deweese, he gets sentenced tomorrow.
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:
You're kidding me.

Yeah.
He was convicted.
Tomorrow is
10
his sentencing date so now he'll know what his fate
11
(inaudible).
12
13
TYRON ALI:
I mean,
is he going to be all right.
14
15
But is he going to be all right?
RON WATERS:
He's going to jail.
He says he's
going to jail.
16
TYRON ALI:
17
RON WATERS:
Okay.
He knows with everybody else that was
18
involved with what he was involved in all went to
19
jail.
20
the other legislators that were caught up in that stuff,
21
the Bonusgate and all that.
Mike Veon went to jail, Fumo went to jail, and
12
TYRON ALI:
Yeah.
You know what, man, all you got
to do is focus on your job.
At the end of the day just -- that's all I'm trying
to do is just focus on what we have coming up next in
the House and the Senate and just keep it moving
because it is -- it's a hard job.
know.
some folks, you help them.
11
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:
13
TYRON ALI:
14
RON WATERS:
15
TYRON ALI:
17
Right.
If you can't help them, don't make any
promises you can't keep.
12
16
It's not easy, you
And at the end of the day, if you can help
RON WATERS:
10
Exactly.
That keeps you out of any issue.
Right.
That's my experience.
How was the
party?
RON WATERS:
The party was nice.
It was at a rec
18
center.
And it's like a kind of new rec center out
19
in Darby.
20
people, the mayor, everybody, they love it.
21
spend a lot of time there.
And they're very proud of it.
The council
Children in the
They
13
neighborhood spend a lot of time there, so they
wanted me not to have my party where I had it last
year.
so that's what we did.
TYRON ALI:
man.
They wanted me to have it at the rec center,
That's why I love you.
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
Yeah.
That's why I love you.
I love you, too, man.
(22:03)
Just, please, if you can, just check
on that job for me with Jewell.
10
RON WATERS:
11
TYRON ALI:
12
Jewell like that.
13
RON WATERS:
14
TYRON ALI:
15
RON WATERS:
16
TYRON ALI:
17
RON WATERS:
18
TYRON ALI:
19
RON WATERS:
20
TYRON ALI:
21
You're always helping the community,
I will.
Because you know I can't talk to
Right.
But I know you can.
Yeah, I can.
I can talk to him.
Thanks.
Okay.
I'll be in touch.
All right, man.
I'll probably call you Wednesday.
you going to be down Wednesday or Thursday?
Are
14
1
2
RON WATERS:
I'll be here.
I ain't going anywhere.
I'll be right here in town.
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:
All right.
Checking out how my colleagues make
out.
Louise got -- Louise is going to win her race now
because --
8
9
Some of my colleagues is in some tough races.
TYRON ALI:
trouble?
10
RON WATERS:
11
TYRON ALI:
12
RON WATERS:
13
TYRON ALI:
14
RON WATERS:
16
TYRON ALI:
17
RON WATERS:
18
TYRON ALI:
20
21
Roebuck.
Yeah.
He's in trouble.
Because Anthony done gave the girl 25
again.
15
19
Louise is okay but you know who is in
Really?
Yep.
He gave her 25, man.
Twenty-five more grand?

Yep.
And she does not know enough to
understand how this works, you know.

RON WATERS:
She's got caught up in it.
operating like a pretty decent candidate.
She's
She's just
15
1
2
following what she's been told to do.

TYRON ALI:
But you know what.
day, right, Anthonys about Anthony.
going to say.
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
10
RON WATERS:
11
TYRON ALI:
12
RON WATERS:
I know.
Because we all need each other so you
No.
I hope she knows it.
All right, brother.

So she knows how (inaudible).
Right.
When he tells her to jump and she says,
how high?
14
TYRON ALI:
15
RON WATERS:
16
ain't jumping up there.
17
I had to deal with that before.
18
19
20
21
That's all I'm
can't so too much.
13
I know.
At the end of the
TYRON ALI:
How high?
And he says how high and she's like, I
Then what's she gonna do?
Where is your driver, man?
He just went to grab something,
probably something to eat.

RON WATERS:
Okay.
He better be prepared to -- I
mean, she better be prepared to deal with that
16
personality of his. Because he wanted to take Roebuck out
-- he hated Roebuck for at least 20 years.
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:
But why?
I don't know.
And Roebuck hates him,
too.
constantly running somebody against Roebuck.
this time hes invested heavily because I know that group
came up to see us (inaudible) you call Student First.
Roebuck never ran anybody against him, but he's
TYRON ALI:
10
And
Student First, yeah.
RON WATERS:
This other one, American Federation of
11
Children I think it's called, they came to see us,
12
too, in Harrisburg.
13
two years ago and they were like we are, you know, we
14
protect our friends.
15
that's not our friends.
16
said we got a lot of resources.
17
listening, are you all threatening us? (inaudible).
18
TYRON ALI:
They asked for -- this was about maybe
Yes.
And we go after the people

And we had really -- they
So to me I'm
They were definitely threatening
19
you.
20
is -- if you come help us we'll help you, you know.
21
But, I mean, it's one of those things where it
RON WATERS:
Yeah, yeah.
17
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:
It's politics as usual, man.

But I told Roebuck.
I even told him,
I said, Roebuck, man.
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
He needed to be smarter though, Ron.

Yeah.
He needed to be a little bit smarter.
I mean, I just for the life of me, you know.
to me a couple of weeks ago and he said, yo, Ty, I
need your help.
10
RON WATERS:
11
TYRON ALI:
12
I can't help you.

Right.
You know, I can't because I know the
position that you're in.
13
RON WATERS:
14
TYRON ALI:
15
RON WATERS:
16
TYRON ALI:
17
RON WATERS:
I like you as a person.

Right.
But I can't do anything.
But what he did though, he went after
his pastor at his church.
19
boards of his church.
20
leave.
TYRON ALI:
I can't.
Right, yeah.
18
21
He came
Okay.
He's head of the deacon
He's suing his pastor to
18
RON WATERS:
Now, that turned the black clergy
against him.
endorsing this girl and gave her about 60 people to
work the streets for her, and on campaign day they're
going to give her even more.
thousands of dollars.
thing.
after him.
this if he hadnt did that.
10
That's why the black clergy is
And they gave her
They said he did the wrong
Don't go after one of them clergy.
So they
They said he would have not gotten into
I asked him.
I said, why did you go after the
11
pastor.
12
to go.
13
People perceive that as a politician using their political
14
muscle to go after the head of a church.
15
that's how people are going to see it.
16
I'm head of the deacon board.
That guy got
I said, you know how people perceive that, Jim.
I said,
Then as far as the voucher, I tried to talk to
17
him.
I said how can you figure you can be for
18
vouchers in a way where it can be conditional.
19
don't have to say I'm against it.
20
support it but this is how it's got to be.
21
you not an anti, like a no.
You
Say, all right, I

That way
All you talk about is
19
vouchers.
2
3
TYRON ALI:
response.
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
You have to be intelligent about your
Right.
And he's not being very intelligent.
What he's doing is he's upsetting people.
RON WATERS:
Especially someone with a doctorate
degree.
That just goes to show you, he has a Ph.D.
Roebuck has a Ph.D.
10
TYRON ALI:
11
RON WATERS:
I knew he taught at Drexel.

Yes.
He was a professor.
Yeah.
12
has a Ph.D.
13
Roebuck instead of Representative James Roebuck.
14
tells people about that, too.
15
He
He's really going to be Dr. James
He doesn't use it a lot.
He
I don't think a lot
16
of people knew he was a doctor, he had a doctorate.
17
His whole thing is, and you're right, you're absolutely
18
right.
19
20
21
He wasn't too smart about how he did this.

TYRON ALI:
You can answer people.
You just have
to give them an answer that they can metabolize.

RON WATERS:
Right, right.
20
1
2
TYRON ALI:
universe.
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
That they can understand in their own
Right.
You don't have to be that -Right, that opposed to it.
That drastic, you don't have to be
that drastic.
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
No, no, no.

You can make your life easy or you can
10
make your life difficult and he has consistently made
11
his difficult,
12
13
RON WATERS:
But he's one of those guys that grew
up in a well-to-do family.
14
TYRON ALI:
15
RON WATERS:
You could tell.
You could tell.
You know Sears and Roebuck, right?
16
in the Roebuck family.
Okay?
17
people.
18
different than the one I grew up in.
19
up not far from each other in the neighborhood.
20
grew up around there.
21
Chestnut.
He's
So he comes from those rich
So he grew up in -- in an environment
I mean, we grew
He grew up around 58th and
21
1
2
TYRON ALI:
I mean, I feel
sorry for him, Ron, honestly.
3
4
How are you with him?
RON WATERS:
He don't listen.
He thinks he's
smarter than everybody else.
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:
Really?
Yeah.
I don't blame him for thinking
that he's smart.
I mean, it's not easy to get a
doctor's degree.
But that's the highest academic
degree you can get.
10
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:
Do you want to kick him a couple bucks
I don't know if -- I'm staying out of
it.
15
TYRON ALI:
16
RON WATERS:
Okay.
Because I tried to talk to him.
17
don't want to listen to me.
18
getting in that race.
19
20
21
So I
or no?
13
14
The doctorate.
don't blame him for that.
11
12
Yeah.
TYRON ALI:
We don't need to be
Well, then maybe we should be talking
to the girl.
RON WATERS:
He
Yeah.
But the race is tomorrow.
22
1
2
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:
get back?
7
8
9
10
She going to have some
debt she needs to payoff.
That's okay.
Yeah.
TYRON ALI:
you.
That's right.
Hello.
That's right.
Yes.
Do you want to go back inside until he

How are you doing?
Okay.
Okay.
All right.
I'll see
All right.
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
Do you want to go back in?

He's coming down here.
Even if we do
11
something that's just sort of a gesture.
12
have to be nothing massive, as long as she knows she
13
can talk to us.
14
RON WATERS:
15
TYRON ALI:
16
RON WATERS:
17
TYRON ALI:
It doesn't
Okay.
That would be good, you know.
Okay, okay.
Yeah.
Let me see how things are running
18
because all weekend I've been making my rounds.
19
know what I mean?
20
RON WATERS:
21
TYRON ALI:
You
Okay.
Trying to make sure everybody -- you
23
know what I'm saying?
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:
7
8
9
10
Okay.
Taking care of my folks.
I appreciate that.
Always, brother, always.
Where is the brother?
I hope you all
right.
TYRON ALI:
You know what it is, man.
you something, right.
I'll tell
I focus so hard between DC and
Harrisburg.
11
RON WATERS:
12
TYRON ALI:
Uh-huh.
And now is a situation where, okay,
13
Jordan is getting ready to do this piece, right?
14
he's going to take Harold's spot?
15
RON WATERS:
16
TYRON ALI:
17
RON WATERS:
18
TYRON ALI:
So
Right.
Right?
Right.
But then it's like, okay, Harold is
19
going to be the state rep for about six months and
20
now you got Gary in the race and you got Jewell's
21
daughter in the race.
24
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
Yeah, yeah.
You know, it takes time to really
figure out who you can really talk to, deal with, be
friends with, because, you know --
RON WATERS:
TYRON ALI:
RON WATERS:
Right, right.
-- you got to be careful.
Gary, I heard Gary.
Now, this came
from Gary's -- a guy that Gary worked for giving you
a ride, they said he ain't campaigning.
10
Milton Street --
11
TYRON ALI:
12
RON WATERS:
13
TYRON ALI:
14
gonna win.
They said
Milton gonna win.

Milton gonna win.
I'm going to tell it to you.
I'll see you later, man.
15
RON WATERS:
16
TYRON ALI:
17
(Silence.)
18
CLAUDE THOMAS:
Happy birthday.
Thank you.
All right.
Tape being deactivated
19
again on today's date, Monday, April 23rd, year,
20
2012.
21
Milton
25
2
3
4
true and accurate transcription of the recordings in
the aforementioned matter to the best of my ability.
7
8
9
10
11
12
______________________
13
Brenda S. Shaffer, RMR
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21

Ron Waters Transcripts

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1

MR. NOTARISTEFANO: Do we have a

answer any questions, that you may tell me to

community with the drill team. I had formed my own

to West Philadelphia at 61st and Chestnut.

You and I have discussed the facts of

Q And was there something about his dress or

Q And once at a birthday party?

Q How far back did you and Mr. Fenerty go?

debt owed to the Parking Authority, City, School

but I know I had a birthday and I know we did have a

conversations about proposed legislation about

it anyway. You can keep your money," right?

Q You're aware that you're required to

about requirements about reporting any kind of

evidence that has been presented and that you have

that he was a lobbyist, that he had gotten his

system that, in my opinion, in Pennsylvania worked

hard for my district representing their interest and

states to go after unions and to dismantle unions.

GRAND JUROR: I want to know besides 1

MR. PERRI: Could we just take a

legislator, maybe I could help give him some

day care. Can you elaborate, please?

resources were at his disposal. He never said

A That was the only understanding I had,

--MR. NOTARISTEFANO: We are back on

lobbyists from my fundraising events. That is the

(The foregoing certification of

afraid [1] 28/8

effort [1] 27/25

crime [1] 7/7

18/24 18/24 18/25 19/5 28/18 30/2 30/3 30/5

knew [5] 13/9 14/6 18/7 32/24 34/21

neighborhoods [1] 8/21

PAC [3] 39/11 39/22 39/25

ring [1] 28/16

start [4] 5/20 30/5 30/9 32/3

20/21 21/14 21/19 24/20 24/25 26/14 31/8

words [2] 28/13 37/16

T-6 October 22, 2010

Special Agent Claude Thomas, Pennsylvania Office of Attorney

You dont get much sleep, do you?

Thats for dead people.

The old school saying, sleep when youre dead.

Most people dont understand when you go talking

Yes you have to function as you normally would. That

You headed out?

In fact, Ill just follow you a little

T-6 October 22, 2010

So you know where youre going, right?

Its 6027 at Ludlow.

Look better than me cuz I dont know.

(3:27) Ill follow you.

Yep. See you in a second.

Whats going on?

Uhm the representative. Hes actually expecting me.

T-6 October 22, 2010

Whats up T? I apologize for that.

How you doing?

Hey thats alright.

Walaikum Salam, brother (U/I).

No they want him to wait a second.