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Jim Shaw
On prog-rock operas, Schulz sermons and the power of dream machines; taken from the
current issue of Dazed
Arts+Culture (/artsandculture)
Q+A (/q-and-a)
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Jim Shaw

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JimShawisoneofthoseexceptionallycreativeoriginalsthatcanturntheirhandtoanything.For
noisefans,heisbestknownasoneofthefoundingmembersofDestroyAllMonstersthe
endlesslyinfluentialprotopunkbandheformedinDetroit1973withartistMikeKelleyandsinger
Niagarathatbroketheboundariesbetweenart,music,videoandeverythinginbetween.Shaw
andKelleyleftthebandafterthreeyearstostudyatCalArts(whereJohnBaldessariwas
teaching)inLosAngeles,wheretheybothsetaboutbecomingrenownedartists(Kelleytragically
tookhisownlifeearlierthisyear).Shawbeganhiscareerworkinginspecialeffects,before
establishinghimselfwithaninventivefineartthatgainedseriousattention.
HisseriesMyMirage(198691),recentlypublishedinbookform,isanarrativeseriesof170ever
changingartworksthat,throughthetaleofwanderingyoungBilly,tellthestoryofUSpopculture
itself.Thevarietyofpaintings,drawingsandobjectsthatmakeuptheseriesprovedthatShaw
coulddoalmostanything,fromreinventionsofHieronymousBoschandNormanRockwelltoMad
magazinecoversandcomicbookspreads.Followingthat,heembarkedonhisongoingDream
DrawingsandDreamObjectsseries,andhasalsocreatedbannerpaintingsandafictionalreligion
calledOismandcuratedtheamateurartshowThriftStorePaintingsfortheICA.Ontheeveofa
massivesoloshowattheBALTICinGateshead,DazedspoketoShawaboutreligiouscraziness
andtappingintoyourownsubliminalbrainwavesforinspiration.
Dazed&Confused:IveheardrumoursthatyouremakingaprogrockoperaaboutOism
JimShaw:Itsmoreaconceptofaprogrockoperathatscontinuallybeingdelayedbylackof
funding.Originallyitwasalsolackofmefiguringoutwhatthehellitwasgoingtobe.ButIhave
figuredout
alotofthat.Eversincetheeconomiccrash,thesparemoneythatwentintoprojectslikeprogrock
operashasbeenlimited...Thisprogrockoperaisgoingtobeinterpretedintermsofartworksand
ideas,butnotbyactualperformancesatall.
D&C:Aperformancethatdoesntexist?
JimShaw:Yeah.Partofthereasonfordoingthisistheloomingprospectoflikelyfailurethis
constantpromisethatmightnevergetmade,likeOrsonWellesslastmovie.
D&C:Doyouhaveanideaofthestoryofyouropera?Narrativeissomethingyouveexplored
inunusualforms.
JimShaw:Imusingoperaasanexcusetolayoutthehistoryofmyfakereligion.Oneofthe
thingsIwasconstantlyworryingaboutwas,IsthisgoingtoenduplikeTheOsmondsThePlan?,
whichwasa(1973)conceptalbumaboutMormonismthatwasnotparticularlysuccessful.Orlike

oneofthemanybornagainChristianrecordswithnotverygoodmusicalnumbersthatcameout
inthewakeofJesusChristSuperstar.ItsprobablygoingtobemorelikeTalesfromTopographic
Oceans(byYes,1973),aweirdmixtureofpoeticstuffandhamfistedthings,butitsgotto
maintainacertainrelationshiptoreality.Onethingaboutrealoperaisthatthereslongsequences
ofexploratorysingingthatareprettyunmemorableattimesinthingslike(Wagners)RingCycleor
thisnewoperathatthefilmcomposerHowardShoredidbasedonCronenbergsTheFly.Long
segmentsofsomeonesinging,Ohblahblaaahblablahblahitsjustnotengaginginany
particularway.Imhopingitwillbealittlepunchierthanthat.Partoftheabsurdityofdoingarock
operaisthatIma
terriblemusician.
D&C:Whydoesreligionfascinateyou?
JimShaw:ItssomethingIpersonallyleftbehindwhenIwas11or12.WehadthisEpiscopalian
ministerthatwouldliterallygivesermonsbasedonPeanutscomics.Very,verymiddleoftheroad.
WhenIwasanadultIwasexposedtotheweirdnessofbornagainChristianstuffonTV,
somethingthatwascompletelyhiddenfrompublicviewthenexceptfortheoccasionalscathing
reference.IwasjustfascinatedwiththisotherculturethatexistedinAmericathiswasbefore
theytookoverpoliticsandtheRepublicanParty.Iwasinterestedinthefactthatnomatterwhat
progresshappens,wekeepfallingbackintothat.
D&C:Yourworkissoaccessible,butyoualsoseemtobeexploringyourowninternal
landscape...
JimShaw:Iwanttheretobethingsthatpeoplecanaccessbutalsohiddensecrets.Ifits
completelyhermetic,theonlywayanyonecouldbeinterestedisifitsworthalotofmoney,
becauseoncesomethingssuccessfulthenpeoplepayattention.Iwantpeopletogetsomething
outofmywork.Iwanttheretobesomethingthatdrawsthemin,likethetopofapaperbackdraws
youintoapotentiallyfabulous,potentiallyterriblebook.
D&C:Istheresomethingyoulikeaboutnotbeingpinneddownstylistically?
JimShaw:IhaveADD,ormaybeitsADHD.ThroughoutmylifeIdidavarietyofthingsandnone
ofthemwereallthatsuccessfulfinancially,soitwaseasytoleavethembehind.Iliketakingleft
turns,butIhavethisfearthateverybodywantstoseetheworkIvedonewhenIverenderedthe
shitoutofstuff,andImjustgettingtoooldtodothatfortherestofmylife.Iwantittobeabit
moreabouttheideas.
D&C:YouwereinDestroyAllMonstersforthefirstthreeyearsoftheband,withMikeKelley.
Howhasmusicinfluencedwhatyouvedonesince?
JimShaw:Well,ItookviolinandviolainjuniorhighbutIneverpracticed.Iwastheworlds
poorestviolist.Thethingaboutanelectricguitaristhatitdoesnttakealotoftalenttogetsome
noiseoutofit.NowImutilisingmyvoiceIvebeenlisteningtoalotofmusicfromvarioustime
periodsandworldplacesandIfeellikenobodyseverreallypushedthevocal.Stufflikepygmy
vocalising,theTahitianChoirandshapenotesingingarejustmarvellous,soImtryingtowork
someofthatintothemusic.Thethingis,withmusic,itactuallyfunctionsatanimmediately
emotionallevel,whereasifyoureemotionalinvisualartyourepunishedforit,andperhapsrightly
so.Sentimentalitycanovertakethereeasily.Itsinnateinmusic.
D&C:Doyoustilllovecomics?
JimShaw:Ifallbackintothem.Ivebeendoingthesethingsabouttheaestheticsofcomicslately,

becausesomuchofwhatIdoisaboutrenderingthingsinpencil,intonesofgrey.Rendering
thingsincomicsisapure,symbolicversionofsomething.Itsanabstractionintohighcontrast
linesitsjustadifferentwayofpicturingthings.IvebeenlookingalotatWilliamBlake,whois
kindofthefirstcomicartist.IdidthesedrawingsreworkingWilliamBlakebutdoingitinthestyleof
theleadingSupermanartistofmyyouth,WayneBoring.Anextremelystylisedwayofdrawingthe
humanbody.ImcontinuingtoutilisealotofthoseaestheticelementsandIvealsodonecomics
thattellthesamestoryastheprogrockopera.
D&C:Blakewasavisionary,whichknitsintoyourDreamworks.
JimShaw:ThemiracleoftheDreamserieswasthattheartworkalreadyexistedinmydream,soI
didnthavetobotherwithtoomuchhardworkorresearch.ThethingabouttheOismseriesisI
havetoresearcheveryaspectofitandspendalotoftimeonthat,soitsaslowergoingthing,
andthatsoneofthereasonsthatthebookofOismandtheprogrockoperaaresofarbehind
schedule.WhenIfirststartedIthought,yeah,Illgetitdoneinsixmonths.Itsbeen12years.
D&C:Tellmealittleaboutyourprocesses?
JimShaw:SomeofwhatIworkonistediousrendering,andthats95percentsweatvsfiveper
centinspiration.Therearetimeswhenthingsfloatintoyourheadandtimeswhentheydont.I
dontwanttobesomeonewhohadalotoftheirideasbackintheir20sandisjustregurgitating
thesamestuffoverandoveragain.IdeliberatelychangedthekindofartworkthatIwasdoingso
thatIwouldntbedoingthesameartworkfortherestofmylife.Ihavemybestluckhavingideas
whenIhaveagoodnightssleepandlounginginbedlisteningtothisdevicethatputsyouinto
alphaandbetastatesforlike,halfanhour.
D&C:Whatsthesleepmachinelike?
JimShaw:ItscalledHolosync.Itusessoundstosetuparhythmfromeartoear,whichcreatesa
brainwavesituation.Ontheotherhand,ifyouhaveabunchofdreamsyoujusttranscribethem
andtheretheyare!Thevastmajorityofdreams,asfarasIcantell,arejustsiftingthroughthe
thingsthatyoureworriedabout,andeveryonceinawhilethereswishfulfilment.Thenyouget
onesthatarebizarreandprofoundandpropheticandIthinktheyreessentiallyyourbodys
naturalDMTkickingintogear.Itsvery,verysimilartoreligiousexperiences.Thelongeryoucan
prolongthoseglimpses,itswherethecreativeprocessiskickedintohighgear.
November9February17,TheRinseCycle,BalticCentreforContemporaryArt
(http://www.balticmill.com),GatesheadNE8
PhotographybyRenataRaksha
More: Arts+Culture (/artsandculture) Q+A (/q-and-a) rock (/tag/rock)

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