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Water Well Board Meeting
Water Well Board Meeting
BOARD: So what youre saying is, is that by you doing the report and not having him check it, there was some mistakes
made and it wasnt in malice. Thats all I
MACHAIN: (inaudible) Yeah, I wasnt trying to mislead anyone, like I said we had water it was a good well we did what
we did
BOARD: (inaudible) the casings, thats all
MACHAIN: I wasnt trying to mislead anybody on this he was very concerned he had some paperwork stating we had 232
feet in there and I got that off to him because he said thats all he wanted and then he would move on and send me a
check and thats what he stated and its been an ongoing battle ever since, you know, the reason why the the you guys
never got the report, I had to hand it over to my attorney and we were litigating for all this time we went to court I dont
know what date it was I forget but I can look it up for you.
BOARD: The other is the non-conforming.
MACHAIN: I gave him a copy in his mailbox to sign over there I even I checked it off on the well completion report he
was supposed to sign it for us, we never got anything back from him, he wouldnt even take my calls after a while he
said, you know Im not even talking to you anymore. You know, I off..you want me tocan I speak a little about this
because I have a lot to tell you
BOARD: not right now, lets keep to the subject.
MACHAIN: ok
BOARD: Does the board have any questions for, and lets keep it to the subject please, not you know of what these
things are here right now. Not to say were not going to talk about the other. (inaudible)
BOARD: Roger I would just say that the one question the depth to bedrock is up to opinion, my opinion of where I hit
bedrock could be very different from somebody else by 5 feet. What do I feel is firm and consistent maybe somebody
else(inaudible)think its still soft or broken or weathered. So Im not concerned about that 5 foot
BOARD: So what youre saying in most reports there is a variation. No matter what.
BOARD: I think they can (inaudible) my world
BOARD: I think the board would agree to that. Am I right? Yeah
BOARD: And thats only in, Im only discussing line 9 on the completion report. Because thats, theres a discrepancy on,
of 5 feet between the two. So I personally dont have a concern with that 5 foot discrepancy.
BOARD: Ok, is that it.
BOARD: Yeah.
BOARD: Do you have any questions for Bob or
BOARD: No.
BOARD: Hugh
BOARD: Roger, the way I read this complaint, Mr. Pellino is questioning whether or (inaudible) he owes Derry Well for
232 feet of casing. He brings up a whole bunch of incidental stuff but the complaint is did he owe them for this casing.
BOARD: 212
BOARD: 12 feet of additional casing.
BOARD: 212 (inaudible) right
BOARD: Right, understood. Thats the way I read the complaint. All the other stuff is a matter for another day.
BOARD: Mr. Pellino wants to know if he owes them x number of thousand dollars for 212 feet of additional casing
MACHAIN: And attorneys fees.
BOARD: And attorneys fees, and collection fees
MACHAIN: That what we were awarded in court
BOARD: That doesnt mean we shouldnt address the rest of this stuff
BOARD: How does the rest of the board feel about that?
BOARD: What? That issue has already been handled by a higher authority. I dont think we have the right (inaudible) to
question.
BOARD: Do we have a court decision? (inaudible)
MACHAIN: Yes we do. The only problem was, once Mr. Pellino notified the BOARD: of his contentions here, um, then it
was, I believe put on hold until you guys decided whether or not we did in factpu
BOARD: Put on hold by the court? (inaudible)
MACHAIN: Didnt you get the information on that? I think I got something that Pellino said ahhhh
BOARD: No, I didnt get any paperwork on that
MACHAIN: oh thats what I thought but I could be wrong but regardless, we did get judgment whether its on hold
because of this. I think it is, but I dont know. He would, he might know, hes a smart guy.
TOOP: Its on stay pending on your investigation
BOARD: ok, so do we have any evidence here that you did or did not put in, do you have any evidence of how much
casing you put in the ground.
MACHAIN: Ok, well evidence would be nice if I went up there with a camera to show him, we did do it, evidence is this
McKissick and Erik Shwed putting the pipe in the ground(inaudible) and thats what we did, but heres what I did
Roger, all right, and this is the truth, and I think hed be willing to admit this
BOARD: Can you continue to direct this to (inaudible)
MACHAIN: I will, I offered to him, I will come up there, lets say you owe me $3,000, I will come up with a pocket of
$3,000 in my pocket, with my camera, color camera, go down the hole, we can count each 20 foot increment on the
threading, and you can see this, allright, he knew, you can see it, I will go down there and I guarantee you, together well
look at this and count them. And I said this very nicely, matter of factly, Im not going to charge you to go down there,
usually theres obviously a fee. And it takes forever to get up there too. Its a good, you know a bit of time.
BOARD: So you offered?
MACHAIN: I offered him to go down there and show it, cuz he said Im bringing in another company for $1,500 to do
this, and Im like save your money, youre going to be spending it on that for nothing and then be mad at yourself.
Instead of giving him the $1,500 bucks you can put it towards what you owe us.
BOARD: So youre confident there is that much casing in there?
MACHAIN: Not just confident, 110%. I offered to him. Now, Mr. Schofield just tells me a couple of weeks ago, Mr. Pellino
would like me to go back up there and do that. He didnt want anything to do with me up until all of this. Now, were
good buddies, (inaudible) he asked me to go up and do this.
BOARD: As far as you know, is the well working properly?
MACHAIN: As far as I know, yeah. I cant believe that there would be any problem with it. There was nothing, he not
saying there is a problem with it. All we see is the issues of this casing. Thats the only big hang up and he doesnt want
to pay for it.
BOARD: Does the board have any other questions? (inaudible), Id like to thank you very much and maybe bring the
Pellinos into the hearing.
MCKISSICK: Thank you.
BOARD: Will you introduce yourselves please.
PELLINO: My name is Vincenzo Pellino.
TOOP: My name is Audra Toop
PELLINO: Ok this well
TOOP: First of all, we did have the well checked, and theres more problems than from our initial complaint. (inaudible),
weve been going back and forth with Mr. Schofield. The dimensions that you have on the reports, (inaudible), are
incorrect. The depth, the amount of casings
BOARD: Now there is two different reports, which one are you
PELLINO: June 17
TOOP: June 17th, even the last one submitted by ahh McKissick.
BOARD: That has a completion date of 5/23?
TOOP: Ah, yeah, it was 5/29
PELLINO: 5/29 was when they drilled (inaudible)
TOOP: We actually brought with us, their original invoice they left on the property. This is an original, its dated 5/30,
this was the day after they completed the job. This is the day they brought up the holding tank. We know, I mean, Im
not even sure how relevant that is, but it was done on 5/30, I mean 5/29.
BOARD: So, you mentioned you got evidence that there is in fact a different amount of casing in there and a different
depth of well? And that evidence is?
PELLINO: Yes
TOOP: Um, well, we have a letter from Hartley Well, who went down, I only brought one copy
BOARD: Give it to the Chairman
TOOP: The depth is 259, the amount of casings are 230, with 228 feet going into the ground. Directly underneath the
bottom of the casing is the only (inaudible) water source coming in. Thats surface water.
BOARD: (inaudible).
TOOP: Right below the casings is ahh a pit, it looks like a 2 foot pit. This is where the water is coming in, you can see little
rocks at the bottom, then you can see a little bit of a smooth surface, you can see an additional hole, which we believe is
to be the bedrock, at 230 feet. You go into the hole, there is no water, once they went into the hole in the bedrock,
theres no water, period. Only coming in from directly underneath the casing.
PELLINO: Closer to the rock
TOOP: We noticed excessive corrosion, there was excessive rust. They pulled the pump out. The pump was completely
covered in a brown sludge. So, ah, Mr. Pellino did express to Mr. Schofield that there (inaudible), brown water coming
into the house. It stains the toilet, the shower, this has been going on from day one. Which he addressed, they said it
was going to clear up in a couple of months, it never cleared up, I know, I have stained fingernails. Im not even sure
what they did. I..we dont know, but we
BOARD: Do you have the camera? The film from the, from Hartley?
TOOP: We didnt, the original reason we wanted them to go down to was just to check the measurements. Had we
known we were checking more problems. I mean, we thought we were just getting dirt in the water.
BOARD: So you didnt record it?
TOOP: No, but
PELLINO: I will pay again
TOOP: If Derry Well would like to, with the States presence, we needed a third party because they were only going to
show us casings. And we saw how the camera, how the numbers were set, the dimensions were all set on the camera,
there is no doubt in my mind they would have configured it to add on that additional 2 feet, to make the 232, but we
needed a third party present, to make sure that they were showing us what we needed to see. The dimensions, thats
what we wanted to originally find out, until we got to the bottom. The bottom of that well was a problem. And this is
not what we contracted for. As far as the Well Completion report, signed by Robert Machain, he testified, in court,
when asked directly by the judge, was this submitted to the State, his answer was yes. That is what started this
investigation, coming here, finding out if this report was in fact on record. They presented this as being on record with
the state. It was done in malice, it was done to mislead. He lied to a judge, we put that in the motion to have the judge
set aside the judgment or put a stay on until this investigation was done, but he was forced. Mr. Pellino was forced to
have his well measured. The dimensions were all over the place, and the only thing we could come to the conclusion of,
is they were changing the dimensions to make it appear, because their first original invoice, they have the well depth at
285 feet, 232 feet of casings, they dont include the depth to bedrock on it. The he gets the well completion report, then
it says 220 feet, so it appears there is 12 feet of casing into bedrock. Now, we know, we have the, well looked at, from
ground level down, is 228 feet, they say the bedrock is at 225. I know what I saw, I saw the bedrock at 230 feet. But,
giving them the benefit of the doubt, which is being generous right now, um they installed 3 feet of casings into the
bedrock? 10-20 feet is standard and that would be consistent with every other bedrock well.
BOARD: How do you know where the bedrock is?
TOOP: You can see it, when they get down to the bottom(inaudible)
BOARD: hold on, hold on, let her finish
TOOP: When you see this 2 foot cavity you can actually see the separate hole. And when they went in with the camera,
you can see how its a smoother surface, what we sawand Hartley well didnt want to commit to it, they said it was a
gray area, if its a gray area, Derry Wells can come up with their camera, in the presence of the state, there has to be a
third party, they cant check their own work. If they decline, well be more than happy to spend the $725 to have them
come back out, in the presence of the state, and go down the well. Thats how confident I am of the dimensions I just
gave you.
BOARD: I need to back you up a little bit, and Im going to let the board ask you some questions. What started, what
started your questioning?
PELLINO: Well, when
BOARD: Try to keep it brief
PELLINO: The well was $10,200 and I said, for $10,200, I need to know what you did for the work, and I want to know
why Im getting brown water, why its 232 feet of casings
BOARD: So brown water was an issue earlier on
PELLINO: It was an issue. But, I wanted to know why other wells, compared to mine have a depth of 400 feet while mine
has a depth of 265 (inaudible) 115, this is what Im thinking, the numbers are off
BOARD: Ok, Im gonna, Im gonna go through as you talk, so that way there we can remember. So, when you talk about
the brown water, have you have the water tested?
PELLINO: Ah As far as I know, its bad water
BOARD: (inaudible)
PELLINO: I drank it, I got sick off it.
TOOP: No (inaudible)
BOARD: You did not have it tested?
TOOP: No, he wont drink it, but no it has not been tested.
BOARD: So you dont know if its iron, you dont know the ph levels or anything
TOOP: No
BOARD: about it. Ok. And then you said that, um you questioned whether
PELLINO: (inaudible)
BOARD: in your mind, youre thinking its a 250 foot well, 150 feet of casing, 115 feet (inaudible) only because you dont
know the well drilling world so thats just a laymans thought
PELLINO: The more questions I asked, the more deceptive he became.
BOARD: But that was your thought, that was your thought was that, youre thinking that well this much casing, this
much. Now, today you understand the difference?
TOOP: Yeah
PELLINO: No, I dont know the difference. They were trying to close the gap to get to the bedrock which is 2 feet minus 2
feet. They never hit that rock with the casing.
BOARD: That opinion
PELLINO: Its just hanging there. So I ask him the question what it was, and just say how much do I owe you, $3,000 then
he changes to $3,700 and it just kept going on. Um, his worker, ah Steve Banton calls me up and says oh you better pay
Bob his $3,000. Im like, how much casing is in there, what did you do on the well, and he couldnt commit to anything
and he hung up on me. So he said $3,000, he said 37 the numbers were all over the place
BOARD: Wait, hold on a second, Steve who?
PELLINO: Banton
TOOP: Steve Banton, He actually, he is the one who hooked Mr. Pellino up with Derry Well, and apparently he has his
own company Artisan Contocook Artisan Wells.
BOARD: Whats the relationship between the two of you?
TOOP: Ah, were friends, I actually stay at that house.
BOARD: ok ok all right. So Steve Banton works for another company
PELLINO: Brings the contract over to me (inaudible) saying
BOARD: Doesnt Steve Banton work for another company?
TOOP: Mmmhhmm Yep
BOARD: Ok, all right.
PELLINO: But he said this is the contract, I looked at it and he said I doused in the area and the well should go right here
and basically tells
BOARD: Steve Banton tells you this?
PELLINO: Yes, so I say ok, they went on to do this well and I told him, I need to be present when the work gets done
BOARD: Was a, again, like I said Im going to continue with questions. Was there a potential of putting this well in a
conforming place instead of a non-conforming place?
PELLINO: Yes, he wouldnt do it
TOOP: Right, he said he wanted it in one spot and it was actually in
BOARD: So were you present during this time because youre talking a lot
TOOP: Yeah, I actually know everything.I the day they completed the well, I was right there
BOARD: Ok ok just trying to keep it clear. So the well couldve gone to a conforming spot but because of the douser and
where they recommended it to go in a different spot.
PELLINO: I dont believe in that anyways
BOARD: Well, but still the well couldve gone, you had the land, you had the setback. Do you understand what those
setbacks are?
BOARD: People explained to you
TOOP: No. He know it was supposed to be so many feet away from the um
PELLINO: septic tank
TOOP: Septic Tank but
BOARD: Nobody explained to you the 75 foot from the set the lot line or the road or anything like that.
TOOP: No
PELLINO: I have plenty of land too
TOOP: Right. Plenty of land
BOARD: Ok.
BOARD: Can I ask a question?
BOARD: Yes.
BOARD: This Steve Banton person, as infamous as he may be, sounds to me like he selected the site by his dousing
TOOP: Well, I we
BOARD: Were talking about setbacks, were talking about 50 feet, youre talking about you know this guy Steve Banton
whoever he is, and hes telling you, you dont know. Well who called him?
TOOP: He actually just called out of
PELLINO: Comac, um
BOARD: You talked to other well companies
PELLINO: Yes
BOARD: So obviously this Steve Banton, you know
TOOP: Steve Banton did
BOARD: Clearwater is up that way so
TOOP: He he did ah represent, he is the one who actually brought Mr. Pellino the contract
PELLINO: He brought the contract to me said he was (inaudible) for Derry Wells
TOOP: He brought the contract for Derry Wells said
BOARD: Thats fine
TOOP: And we had no reason to question he wasnt an employee of Derry Wells, thats how he represented himself
MACHAIN: He never said he was, (inaudible) Clearwater originally
PELLINO: You said that in court, so dont worry about it
TOOP: We are speaking now, so please um
BOARD: Direct to here
TOOP: There, there was no question on whether he worked, I mean hes the one bringing the contract. We had no
reason to question he was even with another company. No reason
PELLINO: Is (inaudible) like a subcontractor thing, is that whats going on with this scam. It looks like a scam.
BOARD: Well I think he can sell for as many companies as (inaudible)
TOOP: Right, I mean were not questioning on where he comes (inaudible)
BOARD: So now Steve Banton was kind of the front person for you with Derry Well, thats fine and Derry Well is a
licensed company so thats all fine. So Steve Banton then doused the well, the location of the well, where the well is
gonna go, everybody agreed to it blah blah blah and so now Derry Well drills the well
PELLINO: I was never there, never met them
TOOP: Derry Well
BOARD: Ok so, I guess Im gonna let Steve ask questions
BOARD: I dont care for Steve Banton doesnt matter. But, I think I misunderstood when you were talking about depth to
bedrock and amount of casing. Youre saying that the depth to bedrock is below the bottom of the casing.
TOOP: It, it doesnt reach
BOARD: The casing doesnt go in competent bedrock?
PELLINO: No, its 2 feet above
TOOP: 2 feet above it
BOARD: I want to see a videotape of it
TOOP: We actually dont have a videotape of it but
BOARD: Thats fine
TOOP: We can have the company come back out
PELLINO: (inaudible) he declined to do it so
BOARD: (inaudible) theres way too much stuff going on. thats up to you, you can go back and forth
TOOP: (inaudible) theres been too much confusion
MACHAIN: I wouldnt do it if you paid me twice that amount
PELLINO: (inaudible) thank you
BOARD: I dont doubt that Derry Well put in a substantial amount of casing. 230 feet, 228 feet 235 feet. I suspect thats
how much casing is in there.
TOOP: Theres 230 feet. All we needed was because, as I said the invoice left at the house doesnt say anything about
the depth to bedrock, so he he didnt understand why there were excessive casings in there you know just looking at
other reports on the road, he knew for a bedrock well, the dimensions seemed off
BOARD: Those variations in the casing, the depth to ledge, there is some variations to those, not not that you dont
know how much casing is but 2 feet you know one way or another ahh you know theres some variations there. And I
Im looking at this the 285 vs the 265 and I think it became 260
BOARD: 259
BOARD: 259 well we would call 259 a 260 foot well, ok ahh you know again, you paid for a package anyway so not to say
that they shouldnt have reported it properly to us but you didnt get, have to pay any more money between 260 and
280 all right, you know
PELLINO: (inaudible) youd get better quality water at 450 feet Im paying for it, you should go down there and get it.
BOARD: The fact is in New Hampshire you could go 1,000 feet and have brown water. Thats the real world so
TOOP: Theres no guarantee
BOARD: Its stated in the contract
TOOP: (inaudible), it was coming in and it was staining everything
BOARD: Well, see, thats the world according to John Hartley you know, so we got two different worlds here, were
hearing from Derry, were hearing from John and again not to (inaudible) this, so we can get on with our lives, get us the
information, we will then make the academic judgment of whats going on and give you a decision.
BOARD: So a suggestion for you, where is the pump set? Because you talked about the pump. At what level is the pump
set at?
TOOP: Yeah, Its its set down a hundred feet and its actually its not centered in the well, I thought I
BOARD: Well, yeah ok so youre talking maybe it may have a torque arrester or something on it ah the guide that goes
around the pump.
TOOP: Right, right
BOARD: Ok well unfortunately unfortunately for Derry Well, Ricks going to be up there when you videotape this, and
those things will be (inaudible), ok. But a suggestion is is if you got your well pump down into the bedrock and out of the
casings, some of that iron might go away.
TOOP: Its set a hundred feet down, so
BOARD: I know but again, as a layman, you may not understand but youre in the casings, the casing rusts if theres a
little bit of a low ph it wants to oxidize that casing and it keeps coming off. So if you got the well pump down deeper
which depending on the company that you have make these recommendations but get the pump down into the bedrock
so youre not coming by that casing all the time. And that can help that, so
BOARD: I (inaudible) from this conversation that Derry Well had no idea they had brown water so having this discussion
about pump elevation is probably moot
TOOP: Um (inaudible)
BOARD: (inaudible) the two of you
BOARD: We can debate this for the next 6 years. So save you time, to save us time candidly get us the information and
Ricks going to be on site, then we can have a conversation about lowering the pump raising the pump, whatever we
want to do but lets start from square one so its not he said she said anymore cause its to me when youre in a decision
making world
TOOP: We could be here all day
BOARD: Exactly, it could be pain for you and pain for us, so get us that info and then I can assure you we will make a
decision
BOARD: I have a question for Mr. Pellino, I think you told me that Derry Well Company did not install the pumping
system, was it just the tank or the pump?
PELLINO: The holding tank
TOOP: The holding tank
BOARD: Ok, just the holding tank that was installed by your plumber?
PELLINO: I asked them.I hired a plumber.
BOARD: Ok
PELLINO: They would not install it, because they said it was too far to come out. Im like, I got not water (inaudible) and
I had to pay $200 to have it done
BOARD: Ok, so they did install the pump. You just had a contractor come upok
PELLINO: The holding tank (inaudible) plumber
BOARD: Ok
TOOP: Thank you so much
PELLINO: Thank you for your time
BOARD: Ok So can we expect to see that stuff when?
TOOP: Were going to contact Hartley Well right now, on our way out.
PELLINO: Well get on it soon. Well get on it soon. As soon as I can.
BOARD: Ok, thank you
I, Audra Eileen Toop of 2 Neptune Road, East Boston, MA 02128, hereby swear under the pains and penalty of perjury,
the above transcription of a hearing before the New Hampshire Water Well Board on August 22, 2013 is true and
accurate to the best of my knowledge. Availability of the recordings are held at the New Hampshire Department of
Environmental Services.
______________
Audra Toop