INTERFAITH ALLIANCE STATE OF BELIEF

RADIO SEPTEMBER 26, 2015

RUSH TRANSCRIPT: JACK MOLINE
Click here for audio
[REV. DR. C. WELTON GADDY, HOST]: A
few weeks ago, Rabbi Jack Moline, Executive Director of Interfaith
Alliance, was with us to discuss what he hoped we would and would
not hear from Pope Francis during his unprecedented address to a
joint session of Congress. Well, that address happened on Thursday
morning of this past week, and Im very happy to have Jack back with
us once again, to analyze what we heard - as well as some other
pressing issues at the intersection of religion, government and
politics.
Jack, thanks for being here again!
[RABBI JACK MOLINE, GUEST]: Thanks for having me again,
Welton. Its always a pleasure.
[WG]: Man, I can just imagine what Washington must have been like
this week. I guess nobody complained about road closings
[JM]: Well, I have to say that I was in synagogue on the day that the
pope arrived in town and made his tours, and I've never been so glad
to be able to walk where I was going.
[WG]: I bet! Well, let's get there. We have anticipated this speech and
now we've heard what went on. So Pope Francis tackled the whole
question of global climate change right away during the White House
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ceremony, and then took time to express his deep concern regarding
religious liberty. What caught your ear during the Capitol Hill address?
[JM]: Well, like a lot of people, I'm reflecting on his discussion of
families, and what constitutes families. I think he threatened the
needle very carefully in terms of choosing his words, but I still
maintain a certain amount of concern that he was attempting to
advance an image of family that does not include some of the more
profound and welcome changes that we've had in America over the
course of the last summer, including the affirmation that marriage
equality produces family equality, and that we have to continue to
advocate for those values within American society.
What Roman Catholics believe and other religious groups believe
about the nature family is, of course, up to them and protected by the
Constitution. But what Americans do is also protected by the
Constitution, and not affected by what any particular religious group
believes.
[WG]: So do you think he approached it in a way that gave a little bit
of comfort to the diversity that was in the room? Or did he come
down, in your opinion, on one side harder than another?
[JM]: Well, I have a view of this that is both from high up in the air,
and very close to the ground. I think if you look at the entirety of his
speech - and particularly his emphasis on the work of Dr. King and
Dorothy Day, and on the contemplative approach that he emphasized
with Thomas Merton - I think it's fair to defend that the pope was
defending a broad range of perspectives on society. And I don't want
to follow the lead of a lot of our more right wing analysts, who are
trying to drill down into what he was saying to justify the case against
gay marriage. I think, very much in keeping with his personality, he
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left open lots of possibilities without shying away from his own
convictions.
[WG]: Yeah. That's well said. What did you think about him dealing
with fundamentalism?
[JM]: Look, I think if there was anything that delighted and surprised
me in his speech, it was that call for an understanding that - in my
words - religion serves humanity, rather than the other way around.
And I think we have a lot to look forward to with a sense of openness
emanating from the Holy See as a result of his representations here.
[WG]: Yeah. Did he talk about climate change as much as you
thought he would?
[JM] He did not emphasize it quite as much, but I thought he framed it
magnificently as a responsibility that we have to future generations.
And he also went into some very dangerous territories in a
conservative-dominated legislative chamber when he talked about
capitalism. And frankly, the two things go together - the exploitation of
resources being something that he cautioned against not just
because it is something that disadvantages the poor, but because the
notion that we can exploit whatever is at hand is dangerous for the
home we live in. So I thought it was very elegant and very eloquent.
But of course the devil is always in the details, so the nice response
that he got from those who were listening will now have to be
considered outside the religious context of his representation as a
matter of legislation and policy.
[WG]: You know, you and I, Jack, talked about our shared concern
that a faith leader - no matter how prominent - needs to avoid any

attempt at dictating US government policy. Did the pope come off as

being a pastor or as a politician?
[JM]: Oh dear. So his approach was definitely pastoral, Welton, but
I'm willing to take Speaker Boehner at his word that he invited the
pope as a world leader, and as the head of the nation of the Vatican and not as the Holy Father of the Roman Catholic Church. So I think
that his gentle approach to policy meant that most people who were
there listening to him with their legislative ears on, rather than their
church ears on, heard a very good articulation of policy positions he
hoped that Congress would embrace - but presented in a way that
was far less confrontational than other world leaders who've
addressed Congress.
[WG]: Well and one reason I wanted to revisit that is, I actually was
surprised at listening to some of the people traveling with the pope
who obviously had been briefed on what they should say about why
the pope was here and what he would be doing, and the ones that I
heard were very upfront in saying, he is the head of a government as
well as being a pastor for everybody that wants him across the world;
and yes, he needs to speak as a politician as well as being a pastoral
leader. I was surprised by that.
[JM]: Well, I hate to hand anything to Bill O'Reilly, Welton. But you will
recall that I was deployed on behalf of Interfaith Alliance years ago
when Pope John Paul II died and flags were lowered to half-staff in
this country. And we had some problems with that
And Mr. O'Reilly said to me on his television program that he found
my objection to be illegitimate, because the pope was the head of
state: he had a secretary of state and a full complement of diplomats,

and that this was not lowering the flag in honor of a religious leader.
Maybe I have to agree with him all these years later.
[WG]: Well you know what, whatever anybody thinks about what you
just said, I think historically that's the first time anybody ever
complimented O'Reilly on this show!
Well, talking about critics, Paul Gosar, a Republican member of
Congress whos also a Roman Catholic, skipped the event over the
pope's focus on climate change. Do you have any thoughts about
that?
[JM]: I really don't have any thoughts about that. I think that if
anything illustrates the pope's emphasis on Thomas Mertons
openness to dialogue, it is that we had most of the members of
Congress and most of the members of government who were there to
hear someone they knew they would not agree with on everything.
And I think anybody who closes his or her mind to hearing dissent is
not acting within the best values of the United States of America.
We have a two-party system because we presume that theres going
to be more than one policy position on the matters that affect
American lives. And we have elections so that people have a choice,
and they can indicate what they agree with and what they disagree
with. Anybody who absents himself from a speech because they don't
want to hear what's going to be said, I think, is making a huge
mistake, and can't very well represent diverse positions within his or
her own constituency. I think that's different than saying, I don't think
it's appropriate for a particular individual to address Congress, or I
don't like the way someone was invited. I know we had this
controversy the last time Speaker Boehner invited somebody to

address Congress, but to say, I know what he's going to say and I
don't want to hear it - I have problem with that.
[WG]: Yeah. Well you know, neither one of us is Catholic, and I don't
know what you've been thinking watching the really hyper actions that
some people have seemed to demonstrate over the fact that he is in
Washington and was speaking to Congress and to other audiences. I
thought the media was really more enthusiastic, in some ways, than
I've ever heard them be about the about the fact that a religious
leader is in town - and I think they saw him as a religious leader not
so much as a politician. I'm curious, both what you thought, and what
youve heard from your friends and allies who are Catholics about
what this visit from the pope means.
[JM]: So, one of the hallmarks of your tenure as president of Interfaith
Alliance was your rightful emphasis on the potential for religion to
have healing power in our society. And if I'm going to applaud the
pope's visit here as a religious leader, it is that it has been
recognized, and especially in the media, that somebody of his
demeanor - even though he is deeply devoted to values that some
people will agree with and some people will completely disagree with
- but his demeanor allows for religion to have that healing power; to
invite people in; to address matters of concern in a way that is
positive and effective.
And so I'm fine with the media's attention to him as a religious leader
because in the end - we sometimes forget this, but even though the
media can shape perception - in the end, the way he behaves is the
way he should be judged. And he's behaved himself in a manner that
is appropriate for a head of state, I would think. He's got other
responsibilities, and those are not state occasions; and so I'm OK
with that.
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In terms of what I've heard from people in my community, I think

probably the biggest manufactured story of this visit was his activities
yesterday during Yom Kippur. I received so many press inquiries from
people wanting to know if Jews were offended that he was coming on
Yom Kippur; and nobody that I spoke with in the Jewish community
was offended. It was only people wanting to know if we were offended
who made this a story. He came on a state visit; he came to minister
to his flock in the time he wasnt interacting with government; and he
didn't want a seat in synagogue - which meant nobody had to give up
a place for him. So what possible objection could we have?
[WG]: Yeah. Well Jack, let me just say up front before I move to the
next question, that I have covered only a half of what I wanted to
cover on this interview and the time is up; so I will just say to you right
now that we need you to come back really soon, because the
Interfaith Alliance has once again rolled out the five questions that
need to be posed to political candidates. I want us to talk about that
but we can't do it today. There's one thing we have to talk about,
though, and that is though all eyes seem to have been on the pope
this week, there's been another news story that has to be addressed.
Ben Carson, who's making a strong run for the Republican
presidential nomination, was on Meet the Press last week. I want our
listeners first to hear what he said:
(Meet the Press Transcript)
[CHUCK TODD]: Should a president's faith matter? Should your faith
matter to voters?
[BEN CARSON]: Well, I guess it depends on what that faith is. If it's
inconsistent with the values and principles of America, then of course
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it should matter. But if it fits with the realm of America and consistent
with the Constitution - no problem.
[CHUCK TODD]: So do you believe that Islam is consistent with the
Constitution?
[BEN CARSON]: No I don't. I do not. I would not advocate that we put
a Muslim in charge of this nation. I absolutely would not agree with
that.
[WG]: Jack, that got some mainstream criticism; but at the same time
Family Research Council President Tony Perkins came out in strong
support. I know you didn't support that; I want to know what you
thought.
[JM]: So, thank you for asking that question. The time that I havent
been asked about the pope, I've been asked about Ben Carson which is an interesting juxtaposition.
This is only the most recent example of what I'm calling the politics of
otherness that has infected candidates in all sorts of races, but most
especially in the race for president. We've had people condemning
gays and lesbians; we've had people condemning people of Mexican
origin, whether they're here legally or not; we've had people
condemning the poor; and we've had people condemning the rich. It
is almost as if the path to the White House is paved with making one
group of people feel that they're better than somebody else in the
United States. And that's, I think, what Dr. Carson has done. It is
reprehensible for him to speak that way of American citizens who are
members of the Muslim faith community, just as it's reprehensible for
any candidate to designate any class of Americans as being less than
equal.
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I'm very distressed when we have anyone pointing at a minority and

saying, Theyre only four-fifths a citizen of the United States. That
bothers me tremendously.
[WG]: Absolutely, and we really do have to talk more about that and
some other the things that are going on in the election. That's all the
time we've got, though, for today.
Rabbi Jack Molene has served as a congregational rabbi for over
thirty years, most recently at the Agudas Achim Congregation in
Alexandria, Virginia. Having held a number of leadership positions for
numerous Jewish, interfaith and community organizations, today thank God - Jack is Executive Director at Interfaith Alliance.
Jack, as always, let me thank you for being with us on State of Belief
Radio; but more than that, let me thank you for the large influence
that you are exerting in a nation that badly needs you and Interfaith
Alliance. Thank you.
[JM]: Thank you, Welton, and let me encourage your listeners to help
us continue that effort by supporting State of Belief Radio, and by
supporting Interfaith Alliance.

Rabbi Jack Moline

Jack Moline is Executive Director of Interfaith Alliance. In a career
spanning four decades, he has established himself as a powerful
voice fighting for religious freedom for all Americans, regardless of
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their faith or belief system. As a rabbi, he has worked to create

common ground between people of diverse religious and secular
backgrounds. As an advocate, he has led efforts to secure services
for this disabled, increase the supply of affordable housing, promote
marriage equality, ensure pay equity and especially, protect civil rights
for people of all faiths and sexual orientations.
A native of Chicago, he holds the title of Rabbi Emeritus of Agudas
Achim Congregation in Alexandria, Virginia, where he served for 27
years. Rabbi Moline is an adjunct faculty member of the Jewish
Theological Seminary and the Virginia Theological Seminary,
educating future leaders in the Jewish, Christian and Muslim faith
communities.
A long time board member of Interfaith Alliance, serving as chair of
the board from 2006-2008, Rabbi Moline comes to this role with a
wealth of experience in interfaith advocacy. In addition to his work
with Interfaith Alliance, he has served as chair of the Interfaith
Relations Committee of the Jewish Council for Public Affairs, vice
president of the Washington-Baltimore Rabbinical Assembly and
board member of the Faith and Politics Institute. He serves on the
advisory boards of Clergy Beyond Borders and Operation
Understanding DC. He has served as president of the Washington
Board of Rabbis and is past chair of the Alexandria Interfaith
Association. He also served as the first director of public policy for the
Rabbinical Assembly and was executive director of NJDC.
Rabbi Moline also has advised and written for many public figures,
including President Bill Clinton, for whom he provided advice on
international affairs and the presidents personal challenges. He was
invited to offer a blessing to the Obama and Biden families before the
2013 presidential inauguration.

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Rabbi Moline has authored two books and has contributed to many
publications. He is a popular speaker and has offered commentary on
PBS, CNN, CBS, Fox News, the Washington Post, National Journal,
Huffington Post and other news outlets.
Rabbi Moline is a graduate of Northwestern University (School of
Communications, 1974). He studied to become a rabbi at the
University of Judaism (now the American Jewish University) in Los
Angeles and the Jewish Theological Seminarys (JTS) Jerusalem and
New York campuses. Ordained in 1982, he received an honorary
doctorate from JTS in 2012. He became full-time rabbi and part-time
Jewish chaplain at the Federal Correctional Institution in Danbury,
Connecticut upon ordination. In 1987, he became rabbi of Agudas
Achim Congregation of Northern Virginia, in Alexandria.
Rabbi Moline is a long-suffering supporter of the Chicago Cubs. He
lives in Alexandria, VA with his wife of 37 years. He is the father of
three grown children and the proud grandfather of one.

Rev. Dr. C. Welton Gaddy

Author of more than 20 books, including First Freedom First: A
Citizens Guide to Protecting Religious Liberty and the Separation of
Church and State, the Rev. Dr. C. Welton Gaddy led the national nonpartisan grassroots and educational organization Interfaith Alliance
for 16 years, retiring in 2014. Dr. Gaddy continues his work with the
Alliance as President Emeritus and Senior Advisor. He serves as

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Pastor for Preaching and Worship at Northminster (Baptist) Church in

Monroe, Louisiana.
In addition to being a prolific writer, Dr. Gaddy hosts the weekly State
of Belief radio program, where he explores the role of religion in the
life of the nation by illustrating the vast diversity of beliefs in America,
while exposing and critiquing both the political manipulation of religion
for partisan purposes and the religious manipulation of government
for sectarian purposes.
Dr. Gaddy provides regular commentary to the national media on
issues relating to religion and politics. He has appeared on MSNBCs
The Rachel Maddow Show and Hardball, NBCs Nightly News and
Dateline, PBSs Religion and Ethics Newsweekly and The Newshour
with Jim Lehrer, C-SPANs Washington Journal, ABCs World News,
and CNNs American Morning. Former host of Morally Speaking on
NBC affiliate KTVE in Monroe, Louisiana, Dr. Gaddy is a regular
contributor to mainstream and religious news outlets.
While ministering to churches with a message of inclusion, Dr. Gaddy
emerged as a leader among progressive and moderate Baptists.
Among his many leadership roles, he is a past president of the
Alliance of Baptists and has been a 20-year member of the
Commission of Christian Ethics of the Baptist World Alliance. His past
leadership roles include serving as a member of the General Council
of the Cooperative Baptist Fellowship, President of Americans United
for Separation of Church and State, Chair of the Pastoral Leadership
Commission of the Baptist World Alliance and member of the World
Economic Forums Council of 100. Rev. Gaddy currently serves on
the White House task force on the reform of the Office of Faith Based
and Neighborhood Partnerships.

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Prior to the fundamentalist takeover of the Southern Baptist

Convention (SBC), Dr. Gaddy served in many SBC leadership roles
including as a member of the conventions Executive Committee from
1980-84 and Director of Christian Citizenship Development of the
Christian Life Commission from 1973-77.
Dr. Gaddy received his undergraduate degree from Union University
in Jackson, Tennessee and his doctoral degree and divinity training
from the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary in Louisville,
Kentucky.

State of Belief Radio

State of Belief is based on the proposition that religion has a positive
and healing role to play in the life of the nation. The show explains
and explores that role by illustrating the vast diversity of beliefs in
America the most religiously diverse country in the world while
exposing and critiquing both the political manipulation of religion for
partisan purposes and the religious manipulation of government for
sectarian purposes.
Each week, the Rev. Dr. C. Welton Gaddy offers listeners critical
analysis of the news of religion and politics, and seeks to provide
listeners with an understanding and appreciation of religious liberty.
Rev. Gaddy tackles politics with the firm belief that the best way to
secure freedom for religion in America is to secure freedom from
religion. State of Belief illustrates how the Religious Right is wrong
wrong for America and bad for religion.

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Through interviews with celebrities and newsmakers and field reports

from around the country, State of Belief explores the intersection of
religion with politics, culture, media, and activism, and promotes
diverse religious voices in a religiously pluralistic world.

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