Confidential

Personnel Investigation Case #15-065

April 02, 2015
Makofske: This is Sergeant Makofske with the CSPD Internal Affairs Section.
Today is Thursday, April 2nd, 2015. The time now is approximately 2:01 p.m. Im
interviewing Officer Alison Detwiler, IBM 1121, regarding IA Case #15-065. Also
present is Internal Affairs Sergeant Joel Kern.
Alison, you were given the Garrity Advisement before I started the recording. Do
you have any questions about it?
Detwiler: I do not.
Makofske: How long have you been an officer with CSPD?
Detwiler: Twenty-two years.
Makofske: Do you have any prior law enforcement experience?
Detwiler: Yes. Summit County Sheriffs Department.
Makofske: For how long?
Detwiler: Like two years.
Makofske: And whats your current assignment?
Detwiler: Patrol Stetson.
Makofske: And your current shift?
Detwiler: 9a to 7p.
Makofske: Were here to discuss a traffic stop which occurred a little over a
week ago on March 25th near the intersection of South Carefree Circle and West
Enchanted Circle. Its documented under Case #15-13423. Have you had a
chance to review that case report?
Detwiler: Yes, briefly. Ill keep it in case I need to reference it.
Makofske: Do you remember the traffic stop?
Detwiler: I do. Very well.
Makofske: Would you please start at the beginning and tell me what happened?

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Detwiler: Yeah. Id like to start even before the traffic stop a little bit. We had
gone to a call for service, myself and Officer Nelson, just prior to that on an
alarm, and so I was in the general area with him, and we were both east on
South Carefree, I believe, but I was ahead of him quite a ways, and all of a
sudden, he says something on the air like, Alison or Dispatch, Ive got traffic.
Alison, come around and get back here, you know, and it had some urgency to
his voice, I thought, because he knew I was close as we had just left that call for
service, so he was requesting me to come back to his location really quick, so I
flipped a U-turn and came back to Enchanted where I saw him pulled over there
behind this car, and I pulled up and about that time, both of us exited the cars.
I believe he hadnt even exited his car at that point, and we both approached the
car, him on the drivers side and me on the passenger side, so I didnt know
much of anything, really. I just saw the car pulled over, a dark sedan with super
dark, tinted windows on the passenger side, and I was just being the cover
officer, just standing back trying to view what I could view the best that I could in
the car and just let Dave handle the contact.
I could hear him talking to the occupants in the car, but I really couldnt hear what
was being said. I heard Dave reference identification more than once. I need to
see your identification. I need to see your identification, so I assumed that they
werent providing it, but I couldnt hear any conversation within the car, like, what
was being said. I could hear them talking but couldnt clearly hear anything, so I
just stood back and watched, and the next thing I knew, Dave escalated pretty
quick, his voice and his responses escalated fairly quickly. I saw him step back
from the car just ever so slightly. I think he opened the door at that point and had
his Taser out and started yelling at the driver to exit the car which concerned me
greatly because I didnt know what he had seen in that car. Thats when I pulled
my gun and decided to be the lethal cover. I didnt know if he didnt he didnt
give me any kind of signal as to what was going on, and I had no idea, so I just
went to lethal and held the passenger and tried to do the best I could to focus on
the passenger, asked him to keep his hands where I could see them.
And once or twice, his hands dropped out of my sight, so I said probably at least
three times, Hey, put your hands up where I can see him, and he would, but
there was a couple times where I felt really uneasy, like, I couldnt see him. The
windows were super dark on the car, and Dave was trying to get the passenger
out, and I was just trying to communicate with Dave, Look, just handle just
handle that guy, like, I just dont want both of us I was trying to be just cover. I
didnt want two people out of the cars, so I was trying to slow him down a little bit,
like, just whatever you just get him detained and put him in a car and then well
deal with this guy because I felt like he was sort of ramped up, and I was trying to
keep it kind of calm. And so he does. He takes the guy back to the car. I still have
no idea, really, whats going on. Im just standing there, and Im keeping an eye
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on the passenger, and then he comes back to the passenger side of the car,
opens the door, and the guy was being really verbal, like, You dont have any
right to you dont you havent presented identification, whatever he was
saying. He was saying a bunch of, You dont have a right to pull me out of the
car, just a bunch of stuff, and so I was trying to just really do the de-escalation
thing because Im pretty good at it, and I was like, Look, dude, youre not under
arrest. I just want to check you for weapons and keep this I have no intent to
arrest you. I just want to make sure that you dont have any weapons on you.
He shook his head no. He was verbalizing that he wasnt going to get out of the
car. Dave started to pull him out before I could do anything else, and Daves
pulling him out of the car, and then just he gets him upright and I still at that
point thought it was just my impression that we probably could have handled it
with him standing upright. Like he wasnt physically fighting us, but Daves like,
Take him to the ground, and the next thing I knew he was like throws him in
the grass right there beside us, and I just kind of went with it.
I had his, like, left arm a little bit, and the guys screaming and yelling, and there
was like a post office guy, I think, down the street, and he was like, Are you
watching this? Are you watching this? And I think Dave grabbed his cell phone
and kind of tossed it away from him, and the guys screaming and yelling and
Daves like, Youre under arrest now, and puts him in my car, and I was just
kind of standing there in the dark because I missed so much just being the the
cover officer, and hes screaming in my car, What am I arrested for? And Im
like, I dude, I youre going to have to talk to Officer Nelson. This is his stop.
What did you stop the car for? Dude, I dont know. It wasnt my traffic stop. It
happened before I got here. And then it was Fuck the police, and This is the
reason I hate the fuckin pigs, and youre all a bunch of fuckin pigs, and at some
point I was able to deescalate him in the car, and Im like, Look, I dont know
what happened prior to my arrival here, but it looks like youre going to just get a
summons. Ill serve and release you. Ill deal with you so you dont have to deal
with him, and I tried to get him to calm down, and he did, and he was very, like,
Im sorry. I dont mean to yell at you. Youre not the person Im upset with.
Youre not the officer Im upset with. I want all of his information.
Im like, Well make sure you have that, and Biscaro comes and talks to him at
one point for a couple minutes in my car, and I ended up I talked to Sgt.
Biscaro and I said, Why dont I serve and release him and keep keep Nelson
completely out of this to try and keep this to deescalate as much as possible and
have no more contact with him, and so thats what I did. Dave wanted me to
charge him with whatever we did Interference, and I did the summons and
handled it so that there wasnt any more contact because that obviously, thats
where the deal was.
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I do think that he escalated things unnecessarily by his behavior in the car and
his unwillingness to just be cooperative with the police, but I have to tell you,
working with Nelson as much as I do that his I dont know how to put it. His
the way he escalates himself so rapidly, I think, sometimes escalates things more
than they need to be, and its frustrating. He just thinks he gets so excited that
his ability to take things up here, brings things up there, and thats frustrating for
me. I feel like Ive been put in sort of a bad spot by that, but having said that, the
guys in the car were obviously not very cooperative, or at least, the passenger
wasnt because I tried to do my best to keep it sort of calm.
Makofske: Okay, so the passenger was issued a ticket, and the driver was
issued a ticket
Detwiler: Right.
Makofske: And they were sent on their way.
Detwiler: Yes.
Makofske: Did you discuss the call or the traffic stop with with Dave or Sgt.
Biscaro after they had left?
Detwiler: I just briefly went over to Biscaro when he got there and kind of told
him what I had which was like I didnt know anything. I never even knew why
the car was pulled over. I was so in the dark on most of it, but I couldnt hear
much. I couldnt see much, so I felt like I was just kind of sucked into into this
whole thing, sort of, and then we went back to the sub and did the reports, and I
just put in what I saw and knew. At one point, Dave said, Did you put in your
report that he locked the passenger door? I think that was the only Im like, I
dont remember if he did or didnt, like Im not going to put that in my report
because I dont remember if he did or didnt. And that that was about it. And I
gave Dave a copy of my report, and I tried to just put in whatever I remembered,
and you know its not a lot because I didnt see hardly anything from my side nor
did I hear much. I felt sort of in the dark over there, you know?
Makofske: And was the car running while you were standing at the passenger
side?
Detwiler: I cant remember, to be honest with you. I cannot remember.
Makofske: Do you remember ever hearing if the exhaust was modified?
Detwiler: I dont. I knew that thats what I knew I remember seeing it, and it
looked big. It looked like a modified coffee can
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Makofske: Tail pipe?

Detwiler: Yes. I did see that, but I never heard the car, and so Im thinking it
must not have been running, but I I dont know. Honestly, Im not sure.
Makofske: Was the passenger side window up?
Detwiler: Yes, completely.
Makofske: So, you described there was a dark tint?
Detwiler: Really dark.
Makofske: But youre still able to see something?
Detwiler: Like, I can see his hands because theyre a little bit lighter than
whatever he had on or so it I could see just a little bit, but it was really hard to
see in the car, so there was a couple times it looked like, I dont know if he put
his hands to his sides or down, just enough that I was losing control of the sight
of them, and so I would say, Put your hands back up where I can see them, and
he did.
Makofske: So, he could hear you through the the closed window?
Detwiler: He must have because he responded when I did when I said that to
him.
Makofske: So, when his hands were visible to you, where were they?
Detwiler: I think he had them either on his knees or just like out in front of him
when when they were when I could see him. And then once or twice, theyd
flip wherever they to the side, down, which was concerning because Daves
behavior was so escalated that Im like Im over on this side of the car, not
knowing what he saw that brought him up there, then Im like, is there something
that I need to be worried about? And he didnt verbalize anything to me, but you
could see that something obviously alarmed him, right? I mean, he went to his
Taser, and so I just assumed there was some sort of threat.
Makofske: Do you remember seeing if the front windshield of the car was
cracked?
Detwiler: I dont remember that at all. I dont think I ever saw or looked at it.
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Makofske: Do you remember seeing the front license plate in the windshield of
the car?
Detwiler: No, I dont remember that at all.
Makofske: You said that the passenger, when he was detained in the back of
your car, that he was belligerent. Do you remember him talking about anything
else?
Detwiler: He he said a whole ton of stuff. He was talking about Ferguson and
this is why that happened, and youre all F-ing pigs, and this is the reason Ive
always hated the fuckin cops, and you didnt identify yourself, and Im like, Look,
dude. I mean, were in marked cars, and uniforms, and and then he went off
on the reason for the traffic stop, and he was asking me, and I still had no idea.
Like, I literally had no idea. I had no answers for him. Like, I did not know what
was going on, and I just told him to try and be patient and I would get to the
bottom of it and help him figure it out, and I I tried to just keep it as calm as
possible, and at one point he finally just calmed down and apologized to me and
said that he was sorry, that it wasnt me that he was upset with, and that there
was some decent cops out there and he appreciated me, and I had a civilian
rider with me. You know that, right? And so she heard a lot of that.
Makofske: Do you know of any other witnesses?
Detwiler: There was a post office guy at one point down the way that that he
was screaming at.
Makofske: That the passenger was screaming at?
Detwiler: Uh-huh. Hey, are you seeing me getting thrown on the ground, as
Nelson pulled him out of the car, so he was -Makofske: He was in uniform?
Detwiler: Yeah, yeah, in the you know, a mail truck. I believe he had his mail
truck there, and thats the only other person I noticed.
Makofske: Did it seem as if the passenger was resisting being pulled out of the
car?
Detwiler: It did.
Makofske: And what makes you
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Detwiler: It did seem like he was kind of, You have no right to do this, and I felt
like he was kind of leaning in as Dave was pulling him out a little bit, but there
was no real, for me, very passive resistive as opposed to, Ill fight, and if
somebodys fighting me, Im good with just fine, youre fighting, youre going to
the ground or whatever. A passive resister, I dont know. I think he was just more
being difficult, so I was thinking and that thats, I think, a lack of
communication on on Daves part a little bit because I didnt know what he was
going to do, and all of a sudden, hes so Im standing there just kind of going
and he took him to the ground, and I guess its just a matter of perception. Im not
saying he did anything different or wrong, but my perception probably would have
been to just pull him out and see if we had some cooperation. Thats just my
perception.
Makofske: So, you pull him out and you made some gestures. Dave put his
head on the ground
Detwiler: Dave like pat him somehow and some kind of an arm bar with that I
think his right arm, and and just almost immediately took him to the ground, so I
really was just kind of flowing
Makofske: Did you assist him at all with that?
Detwiler: Yeah, I had him like by his left arm, and he softly put him to the
ground and then, I mean, the whole time I was trying to like I rolled the Im
like, Look, dude, roll over, and Im brushing the snow off of him, trying to
trying to minimize the situation and not get him any more pissed off, and the guy
was screaming at me, No, dont dont brush this off now. No, fuck you. Leave
the snow on me, and hes saying stuff like that. Im trying to kind of make it
better, I guess, for
Makofske: Alright. So, Im just going to go through this kind of step-by-step. So,
Officer Nelson pulls him out of the car. It seemed to you as if the passenger was
pulling back.
Detwiler: Yeah, I feel like he was. I mean, he wasnt cooperative.
Makofske: He gets him out of the car, and then he
Detwiler: Well, it was sort of almost in one move, like he was pulling that arm.
The guy was sort of pulling back a little bit. I was kind of standing there because I
couldnt get in the way because Officer Nelsons like here, dudes here, and you
can hear me saying because I saw that YouTube thing. You can hear me
saying, Dude, youre not under arrest, because I was thinking we didnt have
anything. We just I just wanted to make sure he didnt have any weapons, and
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it was going to be sort of a done deal. Let me pat you down, and then we just
went to the ground, and so I was kind of over on his left side, and whether I had
I think I had his left hand a little bit at one point, but, I mean, I was just there, you
know?
Makofske: Were either you or Officer Nelson on top of him when he was on the
ground?
Detwiler: Nelson was, I think.
Makofske: Alright, and the passenger, hes hes on his stomach at this point?
Detwiler: Yes.
Makofske: Alright.
Detwiler: In the snow and the grass in that yard that was just right there.
Makofske: And so Officer Nelson has control of one arm and you have control
of the other arm
Detwiler: Right, right.
Makofske: His left arm.
Detwiler: Right.
Makofske: And then
Detwiler: And then we cuff him.
Makofske: Did you cuff him or
Detwiler: No, he Dave was holding onto him, and Im like, Where are the
cuffs? And he was like, I dont know, and then then he looked up and saw
them on the top of the car, so I grabbed the handcuffs, and I think he cuffed him.
I think.
Makofske: Did he have anything in his hands at this point?
Detwiler: He had that phone at some point, and I think Officer Nelson grabbed it
and threw it into the into the grass, into the snow, and he was
Makofske: And when you say, threw it, did he throw it very far?
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Detwiler: No, I mean, like, tossed it is probably a better word. He like tossed it
about a foot from the guy at best, just to get it out of the way.
Makofske: Alright, so that was right before he handcuffed him?
Detwiler: Right.
Makofske: Alright, and then you both pick him up, or
Detwiler: I dont know if I helped with that or not. I remember brushing the snow
off, so I was like, Why dont you roll over, and Im trying to, like, brush the snow
off, and Im like, Just sit up, dude. And hes yelling and screaming, and Im like
and Im explaining to him, Dude, all you have to do is let me pat you down. It
didnt need to be this, and he was screaming at me and
Makofske: So, hes detained in the back of your car?
Detwiler: Correct.
Makofske: And your civilian rider is sitting at the front of that car?
Detwiler: Yes.
Makofske: Now, did Officer Nelson have any more contact with the passenger
after he was detained in your car?
Detwiler: I dont think he did. I dont ever remember him talking to him again.
And I tried to I actually asked Biscaro, because I knew it was such a bad thing.
Im like, Let me handle this, please. Let me you and I you cover me, and Ill
deal with it. I think we can do this better without that just to keep it because it
was such a bad thing, I was like I was afraid wed get him out of the car and
Nelson would come over and he would blow up, and then wed end up in another
problem, so I was like, Just tell him to stay there and let me deal with it because
he was really calm and cooperative with me.
Makofske: Now, at some point the decision was made to issue a summons to
the passenger -Detwiler: By Nelson.
Makofske: By Nelson, so you had some dialog with

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Detwiler: Yeah, I went up and I said because hes told him, Youre under
arrest. Im still just kind of left in the dark, you know? What do you want me to
he was like, Do an E-ticket. Im like, What do you want me to do an E-ticket
for? So, he told me, and I was like, Okay.
Makofske: Did he tell you at any point why he had stopped the car, or why he
wanted you to cite the passenger?
Detwiler: He said he was going to charge him with the muffler or whatever at
the very end, like about the time that he told me about the E-ticket for the
passenger.
Makofske: Did you have any discussions with Dave about what -- what his
reasons for issuing the passenger a summons were?
Detwiler: No.
Makofske: Had you well, what did you think at that point?
Detwiler: I thought the passenger brought a lot of problems on himself by being
uncooperative, and I couldnt have been more direct with him. Stand up out of
the car. Youre not under arrest. Im just going to pat you down, and had he
complied with that, the situation wouldnt have turned into what it did.
Makofske: So, before Dave grabbed him and pulled him out of the car, you had
told him
Detwiler: I sure did, and it was very clear.
Makofske: And how many times did you do that?
Detwiler: I think I told him a couple times, Youre not under arrest. Im just
going to pat you down for weapons. And had he had he complied with that,
and I think we had very good or at least I felt very good cause to pat him down.
Hes in that dark in the car, being belligerent with Nelson. I could hear him
shouting things, but I couldnt hear the dialog. His hands went down several
times out of my view. I felt like that needed to be done, and I would have left it at
that. So, the fact that he wasnt compliant at that point was he very much
interfered with what was going on there and didnt need to he interfered with
the traffic stop almost from the get-go from what Nelson said, that he was yelling
at the driver to not provide ID and things like that, but I couldnt hear that.
Makofske: So, when he told you to cite the passenger for interference, you
didnt have any questions about that?
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Detwiler: No.
Makofske: When the passengers on the ground, did either one of you put your
hands on his head?
Detwiler: Nelson did, and honestly, I wouldnt have remembered that, but I saw
it on the YouTube thing. I saw him kind of shove his head down on the YouTube
thing, but I it happened so fast, I probably couldnt have remembered that if I
hadnt seen it.
Makofske: Given the context at the moment, why did you think he did that, or
did you think anything of it?
Detwiler: Honestly, like I said, I didnt even remember he had done it, so I dont
know. He wasnt, like, actively fighting us. He was he just didnt want to get out
of the car. He just wasnt going to get out of the car. There was no way the guy
was going to get out of the car. He was saying, Im not getting out of the car,
and he was verbalizing that he wasnt going to cooperate with us, basically. He
wasnt going to -- I dont think he had any plan of cooperating, but very passively
resisting which is in my game, a different game sort of.
Kern: Alison, you mentioned that different calls are in your experience of
working with Officer Nelson, that youve become frustrated about him escalating
situations more. Could you expand on that?
Detwiler: This is obviously uncomfortable for me, but I have a very different
style of work than he does, and I take great pride in my ability to deescalate and
control situations, and, I think as you guys know, Im not afraid to go hands-on, if
necessary. Im not afraid to fight, if necessary, but I think I do a real good job
deescalating things, and he is its sort of a known thing at Stetson that hes
super excitable and he escalates very rapidly, and you just sort of
unpredictable and so when he was I mean, hes just he just escalated over
there, and I didnt I mean, I guess my perception is I dont know when Im in
that situation what to think because sometimes I I think that he over escalates
himself. I think he gets so excited that he he isnt perceiving or its just hard to
explain. I just think he gets way up there, and because hes way up there, it
causes the situation to get way up there sometimes.
Kern: If Im understanding you right, would it be fair to say that in your view if
Officer Nelson is escalating things, he doesnt have the the option to
deescalate or he doesnt take the time

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Detwiler: Correct, yeah, he gets and and it causes the other people in the
situation to also sometimes unnecessarily, i.e., the people in the car, if hes all of
a sudden screaming, that tends to make everybody else ramp up. So, its just a
really uncomfortable position to be put in, but I its frustrating for me that I have
a very different style of police work, so its I just its hard for me.
Kern: Do you think its just a matter of routine that this occurs or would it be only
on specific instances with
Detwiler: Its often. Its often. Yesterday I was working with him, and hes in the
county for some reason, which I dont know, and Im trying to clear a call, and
hes screaming for a Code 1, and hes screaming for officer Code 3, and Im
trying to get there, and its already stressful when youre trying to get to an officer
thats screaming that, and he just keeps yelling on the air, I need officers now.
And Im trying to think and maneuver through an intersection, and hes yelling on
the air, and its just unnerving when somebody gets I think it causes everybody
else to get there. I think clouds your perception of whats going on when youre
up here. Having been in a shooting, and you know Ive been in a shooting, had I
been screaming and yelling on the air and lost control, I think I would have
completely caused everybody else to have panic and who knows what could
have come of that?
Kern: Take the instance yesterday when you showed up. What else happened?
Detwiler: I showed up. I was actually with several officers then, but one of the
were talking a few one dude was fairly uncooperative from what I understand,
but he has 4 or 5 kids, and everybody else was cooperative, and its just -- I
mean, he just, like, sort of spins out of control, and Im not the only person that
thinks this. A lot of people on that shift are like, have expressed to me that they
try and stay away from it because its just like you never know if he really needs
help or if somethings really bad or hes just you just never know.
Kern: Well, for instance, yesterday, when you showed up after all that, were you
kind of like, What was all this for?
Detwiler: I was frustrated because I was trying to get you can only get there
so fast, no matter how many times you scream, it isnt going to get me there any
faster.
Kern: But you did you get there and go, Okay, why was I
Detwiler: Yes, yes. Yes.
Kern: Why was there a rush here?
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Detwiler: Yes. We had a handful of Doherty kids. I mean, yes, can kids be
dangerous? Yes, of course they can, and I dont know everything that happened
before I got there, so I dont want to throw him out there. I dont know. But I just
think in general hes way up here and sometimes when youre way up there, you
lose your sense of good perception of what really is taking place. Thats my
opinion, and thats just an opinion because I lost a lot of what happened in that
traffic stop being passenger, so.
Makofske: So, since the stop, have you had a chance to discuss it with Dave?
Do you know why he escalated at the drivers side?
Detwiler: No, I didnt really talk about it. I had a I had a female rider, and it
wasnt appropriate to and honestly, it just I just, like Im just better off if I
stay away from him. I just dont like his style. It doesnt work for me. And yeah, I
personally like Dave. Hes a great guy. I just dont work well with that. I just dont.
Im a whole lot more and I can escalate. Dont get me wrong. I have a
reputation for that, too, when I need to, but I have a very different style of police
work, and is that does that make his wrong? Not necessarily. Its just that its
different. Thats all Im saying.
Makofske: Did you talk about the stop with Sgt. Biscaro?
Detwiler: Just briefly when he was on scene, and I told him, like I dont even
know why he was stopped. I dont know I dont know what happened here. I felt
like I was sort of I did kind of express to him like, I felt like I was kind of sucked
into that whole thing, and thats not a great feeling when your sucked into his
stuff because I never you never know what youre going to get sucked into.
[Chuckling]
Kern: Was the rider a friend of yours or just a random citizen?
Detwiler: Well, yes and no. She she is the wife of a firefighter that I casually
know, and I never knew her before, so he called me up and said, My wife would
really like to get into police work. I think I would really like her to come out and
see you work and do the job and and so she can see what its all about. And I
had never met her before, so so she was out there just kind of experiencing it
with a female officer because she wanted to see if she could do it.
Makofske: Is there anything else that youd like to add?
Detwiler: I dont think so. I hope I remembered to tell you everything. Its an
uncomfortable position to be in. Im not throwing him under the bus by any
Interview with Officer Alison Detwiler

Page 13

Confidential
Personnel Investigation Case #15-065
April 02, 2015
means. Its just that I think its just a difference in in styles and personalities in
general. Like, theres maybe a lot that he saw that I didnt see. I dont know.
Makofske: This investigation is ongoing, so dont discuss it with anyone. The
time now is approximately 2:31 p.m., and that will conclude this interview.

Brian Makofske

Digitally signed by Brian Makofske

DN: cn=Brian Makofske, o=CSPD, ou=Internal
Affairs, email=makofsbr@ci.colospgs.co.us, c=US
Date: 2015.04.24 09:41:03 -06'00'

________________________
Sergeant Brian Makofske
Internal Affairs
/cmc

Interview with Officer Alison Detwiler

Page 14