PALESTINE ROYAL COMMISSION
Notes of Evidence taken on Thursday, 7th January, 1937
FORTY-NINTH MEETING (Public)
Present
‘The Rt. Hon, Ear, Pes, G.C.
The Rt. Hon. Sir Honack Gxoxok Moxrastr
Romwory, Bt, G.C.B., G.CMLG., MLV.O. (Vice-
Chairman). :
Sir, Bosexr Lacrm Lucas Hawes, K.CS.L.
CBE.
1 GBE. (Chairman)
‘Sit Wrexriae Mornis Carrer, C.B.E.
Sir Fagot Morris, M.B.E., WC.
Professor Recixarn Conran, CLR,
Me, J. M, Manne (Secretary)
Im Attendance:
Mz. L. ¥. Axons
ews, OBE.
Mr. D. G. Hrarnconr-Aucny.
Witness
Me, D, Bex-Gurs0x, Chairman of the Executive of the Jewish Agency.
4527. Chairman: You have sent us in a précis of
‘the points upon which you wish to address ws, The
fist one is the attitude of Zionism towards the
‘Arabs? —Yea
fa5z8, And you have pt under that the moaning
cof the Jewish Home. Would yoo liko to make your
‘latement on thooo lines?—When T receive the in.
Sitation to give evidence T was rather embacrassod.
Tisnow Thad very litle to add to tho comprehensive
idence given by the representatives of the Jewich
‘Agency, expecially Dr. Weizmann, therefore 1 want
40" init ‘myself toa fow fundamental questions
Which have arisen during this enquiry. "A. geest
‘Seal was heasd about the benefit whicl had accrved
‘to this country fom jewish work, the improvement
of sgricultare in. Palestine, ‘the provision of more
‘york, better sanitary conditions, better education
and go on, Tt is not the virtne of the Jews that
brought this about and roagit beneficto"te coun.
‘ty, but it is iohereat in our work. Our aim cannot
‘be accomplished in Palestine without a exeative con-
structive wor in agriculture, industry. education,
ete. The welfare of the whole country is our deep
concern for moral, economic and political grounds.
But T want 0 remove a possible misunderstanding
which may arise in Such a discussion. The benefit
Thich Je accruing to the country from our work is
Zot the reason and the justifeation of our being here
dnd of the Jewish National Howe. | We are here in
four own sight. We cogard the. Jewish National
Home as an ead in itsele Wo claim to bo here
and to assure our future hore becauso it is our own
Tight and it is jusifod in itoelf, whother it benefits
cthers oF not.
‘asso. When you say. whether it benefits others,
do"you sean whether it benefits the other side?
Eis nob in order to benefit others. I say that itis
a fact that Gt must beneSt others, because it is @
creative work
wasio. You say it must?—Yoo, in ite mature. it
rust benefit he wholo coantry, otherwise we cam
not be here.
“isat- Sit Horace Rumbotd: But the benefits con-
fazed on the other race aro incidontal to the estab-
lishment of the Homo? Yes, if is not the main
pparpose and our work is in isolé sts own justice
toa.
“i532. Sir Lawrie Hammond: 1 underetand Me,
BaaGarion to say they are not here as philanthro-
pists: but as of nght?—Vee,” Tt is aa ond in itselt
Ena we regard ourselves, the Jowish peoplo, es
fntitled 10 live and to be free for our own sakes
Gur aight in Palestino ie aot derived fromthe
Mandate and the Balfour Declaration. It is prior t
hat Lalis was aid by Ae Ci of the
joyal Cotasision, oF perhaps one of his colleagues,
that the Mandate’ our Bible. sit
tia, Sai: Dil cer bo oo fan at
"may be. it was one of your calledgucs. We
should be glad to boar you say it; but I say on
ischalf of the Jews that the Bible is our Mandate,
{ho Bible which ‘was written by ue, in our own
language, im Hebrew, inthis very counicy. That
is cur Mandate, Out right ie as old as the Jowish
people. Tt was only the recognition of thil night
Jehich waa expressed ia the Balfous Declaration ald
the Mandste, ‘It is stated in the Mandate that it
Tecogaises the right of the Jewish people 0 re
Constitute their National Home.
4534. Professor Coupland: Inthe preamble? —
nthe preamble. “Tt'is not anew thing. Te i
hot the ectablishment of a new historical fat
4535. Chatman: You think Wis, In fact, stated
mare clearly inthe Bible than in the Mandate! —
Taay its more strong and it was recognised. in
the Mandate that our night was not erent i 1017
or igee, Tt was recognised that we had a historical
coanection ‘with Palestine and there are also other
grounds ‘or reconstituting and re-stablishing. our
National Home and not merely establishing a sew
fing, only re-establishing a thing which we had,
Which we lisld and whic was our own during the
‘whole lisory-of the Jewish people.
4536. Si? Horace Rumbold- The sight derived
trom the Bible, would ‘not that take you aa far
as the seconstitntion of the Jewish National Stats?
rival come to that Tater, Tam nots lawyer
ana "T de not wish to speak in logel toma.”
frill speak in terms of commonsense and of history.
Tsay’ we are here as of might and 1 believe all
those poeple, firt of all the ‘Bridsh_ people. and
then offer Buropean nations aad the United States
of Ametia, which endorsed the action of Great
Bcitain, br them too, the Jewish National Home
wwas an end in itself "Te wan aot in order that the
Jews should beneht alestine, but it was to solve
he Jewth problem. It was to remove a grievance,
2 historia! grievance of the Jewish peaple against
‘he whoe Christian ‘world “for-maay” centuries
‘ier were atempta very, worthy and sincere
attempt, by civilised people during the last century
to emowe the grievance of the Jewish people,
their penecutions and thelr sulfeings, by ving
hem Equal righis ia England and Prance and other
Enuntsid: but it proved to be no solution, becouse
Pda not take away the voot of our troubles and
tho root ls that we are In every county’ a minority
Bthe mercy of the majority. This majodty mey
'
tMINUTES’ OF EVIDENCE
7 January, 1937
Mz, D, Bex-Gunion
[Continusa.
treat us vightly and fairy, os im England and in
France, and i may be otherwise, a2 in Commaay,
Dut we are always at the mercy of otbers.
4537, T do not want to inteormpt you, but thie
hat ati boon “lly tated by DE Wottmannd I
Sai ‘at tho ‘beginning T eid’ not want to repeat
‘hat he si, bat Tonly wish to take clear this
Dolnt that wo are here of our own might and for
Surselves, althoogh we are Denefiting’the county.
We do not intent to create ia Paletine the sane
infolerable poston forthe Jews asin all other
Countries, Hea rafal cng or te Josh
peorle oiberwise there is no ‘need for a. National
Frome. “It is not to give the Jews eal righis
inact, 1 i chauge th potion as 3
people. want to say onc word on why we are
Fess in Palestine. “Ye “ls not because ee ‘once
Conguered Palestine. Many yeople bave conquers
a couatry and lost i and they have ao cain that
Sountey, bat here wer are for two reasous apres
Sedsatod im history” The ext ie this Palestine is
‘to only country im the would that the Jews, mot ce
individals ut ‘a nation, ae rece, can regard
2 their own conméry, as their historic homeland
dnd the second reason fs there ino ctace nation
T'do ect say population, T do not say sections of
2 people thofe ia no other rach or nation as a
Whole which. segardn thie county” ac. their only
homeland. All“the inhabitane of Talootino ase
Shien of this country and Have fll rights
this country, not only as eatizeos but an cildcen
Of this homeland, but they awe fn their capacity
as inhabitants of this comry. We have it sr Jews,
85 childron ‘of the. Jewish People, whether we are
here ally or whether we are not here yet. "When
{he Balfour Declaration was made there wero Go,o00
Jews here. Te was not only) the ght. of those
So,000. Now we are 400,000 and fe is a0¢ only the
Fight of thes yoo.000 "Tr is becamse we are the
Shildon of the Jewish people and it is the only
homeland of the Jewish people that we have righ’
in ths country.” Wo are retaming to Palestine and
wre gladly and without qualification admit one, very
ential nit anda mst is the rights of the
Ishabitants of Palestine not to. "be injured
Nothing sball be taken sway from them which they
feed for their existence and for tbeit wellbeing
‘Wo came 40 aa, not to take sway. We caine to
create. ‘We may and we wil vomie nid we are
atited tp come aa long an the Jewish probiem,
Snot selved as long as there ie need. for Jews
to come to Palestine aad Chore is'a place fy hem,
in Palestine without displacing others. We are
not baying a National Home; wo aro not conguoe.
ing it.” We aro re-creating it. This ie the great
imporiance which Jewish Icbour and self work play
in our national movement. As a child cannot be
ought of ancther woman, a mother must give birth
to her child, so the people itself must give birth
{0, must creato by its own effort, by its own work,
its country, its homeland. That i why wo insist
that our work in Palestine, the fields, which we
are ploughing, the factories in which we aro working,
he houses we are living in, must all be done by
oarselves; otherwise we shall not be entitled to
call it ours, ours in the senio in which a people
calls a land its own land, New I come to the
question cf Sir Horace. “TH Palestine is our country,
it is not to the exclusion of other inhabitants; it
's also their country, the county of those who ate
bora here and have no other homeland, and are
can come ia without any limit except the limit
not to displace the existing inhabitants, It means
a complete solution of the Jewish problem; it means
making the Jewish people masters ‘of their own
destiny as any other tree independent people—then
why a home and not a Jewish State?” Sometimes
it is also asked why dove it say "in Palestine "
and not “Palestine a a National Home”. First
of all, T would say tHe programme of oar movement,
when i wae Smt formulated ‘aot created, for i
existed throughout our history—but when it was
rst politically formulated at the frst Zionist Con-
ress in Basle in 1897—we used almost: the same
words as are used in the Ballour Declaration, to
create in Palestine a homeland for the Jewish
people, “It was formalated in the German language,
Hoimstactte.
4398, ‘That does not mean homeland?—A home
socured by public law, a home for the Jowish
pepele in Palestine, ‘Heimetactte is a peculiar
word in Corman. :
14539- Sir Horace Rumbold: You can speak of
“join Heim "ip German and i is the equivalent
of an English “home ""?—T say that wo ted the
expression at thot time “in Palestine.” We did
not say ‘Palestine aa a National Home.” We
Gid not say to make in Palestine a Jewish State.
We did not say it at that time and we do not say
it now and T will toll you why. There are three
reasons. Our aim is to make the Jewish people
master of its own destiny, not eubjoct 0 the will
and mercy of others, as any other free people. But
it is not part of our aim to dominate anybody clec.
if Palestine were an empty country we could say.
1 Jewish Stato, because the Jowish State would
coasist of Jews only and our self government in
Palestine would not concem others. “But there are
other inhabitants in Palestine who are here and,
as we do not want to be at the mercy of others,
‘they have a right not to be at the morey of the
Jews, It may be the Jews would behave better,
but they ate not bound to believe in our goodwill
A state may imply, though not necessarily, it may
imply—since thers aro two aationalities~domina-
tion of others, the dominarion by the Jewish
majority of the minority, but that i not ocr aim
Tt was not oor aim at that time and it i not our
4540. Sir Laurio Hammond: Not your aim to
dominate? —Net our aim to deminate anybody
tse, but to be free ourselves, Not to be dependent
‘upon others and not to dominate others,
4541. Chairman: ‘That je why you want a
Mandate “to keep you of of temptation? —No,
We said that belore there was a question of a
Mandate; it was before the War, in 1897. ‘This
was the formula we used. Tam explaining why.
4542. I follow?—Recause we take into comsidern-
tion the fact that thers aze ‘noa-Jews in. Palestine
and it was not our aim and we do not need to
dominate them, A state may imply a wish to
dominate 2 minority, the wish to dominate others,
‘The second reason is that 2 state meane a separate
political entity not attached to any other state
unit. “A Jewish National home may also mean that,
but not necessarily so. On the comtrary, we should
like this country to be attached to a greater unit,
‘a unit that is called the British Commonwealth of
Nations, |For the solution of the Jewish problem,
for our free national future, it is not neccesary
that Palestine should constitate a separate Stats
and we should be only too glad if in the future,
when the Jewish National Home is fully estab:
lished, Palestine shall be eternally and completely:
frce, but that it should be a member of a
unit, “Matis the. British Commonwealth of
Nations, There is a third reason why wo do not
Use the formula of a Jewish State. ‘There are Holy
Places in Palestine which aro holy tothe whole
civilised world and we are unwilling and it is not
in our interest that we showld be made responsible
for them. “We recognise that they. should be
placed under a higher supecvision, under some
international control or a mantatory or some other
international body, as is laid down tn the Mandate.
These are the tree reasons why we do not use
this term which may be misunderstood but other
wise there is no difference ‘between a National
‘Home for the Jewish people and what is ordinarily
‘meant by & Jewish Slate, except that there is one
sdvantoge iu a Nativual Moms. There is something290 PALESTINE ROYAL COMMISSION
7 Fanuary, 1957.)
mois ia & National Home for the Jewish people
itn in’ Jewish State and 1 yall stow you wat
ih Hi wd cay fev Site thoy Cees Yess
‘att Geet it as cavly coms aa gee
See Mant be ataced oe gee palal ae
Saws are a0 Holy Placed’ we sald
ovis Slat, i would’ be tos han o Nation
Home to the Jewish people. Why? A Jewish
Sts, fa team CE any tes stat, “would
mean the sovesgnty of the people of that ate
Wany gen tine thoy ey dalle sitet tng
Sy Jeans Who shall baa ot cone ts ne
Sake, But ‘wher Crest ‘fas ada oer
European ‘Powete secgnised the “ght ofthe
Towle boos aa he toronto ee cust
Ler ebuotiete thee Notonal Home, hose
the Tg of atthe gonpane oni ee Jaws
Tho hppa to be herd when the Jowen ete
nye i caty and ey might rele aetenely
tet nother Jews, “here Mo Sth gh Ee
eee eee rae cee
Ine Toweted they aay by Srteiol thet sabes
atwnnste the comtry, hve ne ight alae fo
ee ire ee
hbeauny, Saunt Home tor th eu
Stee sone
popes pee ee
49. Sir_Horace Rumbold: You mean_there
eet er 2 eh
Ssiast Sac ay We hove
Seu epi emf dott wat any mse of
sea ee Cibo” ein any teea eS
TOS they coluot doi "ich fhe W's Netlne!
Hime Be Se ow ott
4541, Charman: They. would. bave the power
wells Fag ocoone Be TESS hae
Tinimaintd Ey intoratona. low they ant eve
Mag tr WE Se won’ Joba Coven
Hust they mi ply tenons “hey ould noe
Bat eee bay ther Jor, Treas fa
Be ee ee ee weal, tt
tel 86S of he Nala Hate in
ae ete ne center ope who oe
Balestine, “It is related to bvo things, 40 the need
Eiko Jew poopie in tke wend: tow tangy. Jowe
Sie ed alan bp Bachae sad Ws Tabet
rah We omshceer Baetae kee
ani ara
That ca So ling o cone Dock and a long ao 9
fies So toma fe Rls ebtout deg ons
EPG aleady hore, ho'coa Some Eee Only
Ee ee
Slow, Staite Ge dae of tho foots National
Home, "Te'may be said that id ved i's now
tno ie neal By ange retro Fons fo Palestine
thet feng novel face conto by te present oom
tle £ Satntny Baad anton ha aot
Sees Tisai’ fo ke tack se the tt Zot
ra iy ie ey St “Cangas
Sabre tin Wary mee ne fe Sores
ae ee este ae pes
ina groad namber of counties” The menaco to the
sae penne ee teey ere ete
ee
Be Wal Coagieben That ula Torre was
Eiires on ike yowimh peson tie wold by
Be Racks Jew wnt Mas Mocdag. “Ea ages
Sel Cosstladan” ap bel ube Bag te
Set Sr Te Ma et a
Ber Hla was fated sive svidencs beore nt
Cctration’ Wat way Ser Sgt contact wi a
Saush yal Commision ia te hstry of out
Near se eat Cea, Uae
wer iia, and goa wil Sd in Command
Bogor) "this Sabon Of the Jowih “tifeuoy
ee ae
Riaclg Up thon of ¢ gly sect oe, te
wich Jeb inne pelo Sootwenld hich
Ty ad Spear! weld sturlly sig” aod
Shen the Slee wan made by lke’ Charan at
Me. D. Bus-Gurvon.
that time to settle Jews in Uganda it was also
not meant as a spisittal centre, Uganda. cannot be
sant ae sprsthal centre for the jews, te it wat
Ineant a2 a place to which Jews who were unable
to semain where they were eduld.come, “Then when
hie Belfour ‘Decinrtion was fade, one of the
Authors of the Halfoor Deslaration anda. Member
of fhe, War Cabinet, Gensral Srowts,eforw. the
new immigration started after the War, made a
Grelaration, "1 bave no Goabt im tay mind that,
fithough 7’ may not live to see the day when the
Whole of Israel will return to Palestine, yet more
nol more fe vil bocome the national home of the
[Jewish people, From those "parts of the world
sthere the Jews ate oppreted and tokappy, where
‘hey ace r0t welcomed by the reat of the Christan
popitation, om those parts of the world you will
Yet see a ever increasing stream of immigrants £0
Palestine,” “That was said in 19%9
15(5., We have hada great deal of evidence about
wiist General Srats sald and. that kind of thing?
Ido not want to check you-—i ave finished sith
fat point
“54h. Compatibility of Jewish and Arsb national
ispitation’? “1 am comiag to that. This basa
Benzing on the question of oor attitude to our Arab
neighbour. We never ignored the existence of the
hom-Jewish popsiation We ‘never ignored the
existence of the Arab National Movement. We
belive, and what we fave done up to now in
Palestine tas proved cur belie to be trae, that oar
swori in Palestine, which "was ‘undertaken for the
Salvation of the Jowh people, wil, by ta inherent
satire, be of great Benen not only” 19 the none
Jewish population of Palestine, bot to. the nebgh-
oaring ‘omarion and. 30. the ‘whole of the ‘Near
East, We welcome the fact that the peoples of
Taq, of Beypt, and now of Syria have attained
hele Sngepenience, “noe only on moral gronnis,
not only lecause we are Zionists, and so we appre:
late a national movement and are able to respect
{eand to sympathise with it, but also from 2 deeper
sense of atltintorest. In order to have a National
“ome we must have avery strong ad merous
Jewish ‘community im PalestineI am rot able to
Hay low any we shall have in the fature—and
itis estat for our existence and for our develop-
Ient that the countries around us should be happy
and developed and properous. We believe the
ibenett we are conferring on the country—and It i
only actesary to take a short tour dn Palestine
fo see the benefit of the Jews to. the. whole
country—will alo accrue to those peoples: in the
Heighbourky counties to Palestine who are’ now
achieving thelr independence, It is-unfortanats
that here smong our Arab neighbours theres oa”
2 polldcal natiopal movement, Y am not blaming
finybody, T'have no sight to blame anybody? every
people has the right to arrange its own movement
Ss'it tikes, but there is a very esvental diference
between cur national movement and. the national
movement of the Arabs here. Our movement
alnly constructive. We are not “engaged. in
‘eilation, but in creative worl. We had to do
in order wo achieve our aim; we had’ soclaim
land, to increase is prodactvity, build cities and
factories, create artistic and’ sceatiic Tosttatons,
nd 20 On. Ose Arab ‘neighbours were sngugod it
‘eis work, in purely politcal work. Now we ate
happy to te that ox neighboer im Syriay in Ira
and in Egypt, having achieved their independence,
fannot nom blame a foreign Government for thet
oubles, and they” alo are facing. constzuctive
probins, They ate now rope fr thei ons
Eoentry and for their owa people and they. cannot
fut the Thame on the Bibet oc on. the’ Brenche
at ‘they ave themselves to. solve thelr own
problems, and they will kave also to engage in the
Some constmactive work as me are doing bere. T
Inlows thet they, and, after them, cur Arab neigh:
boars in Palsstin aloo. wil more appreciate. the
PEE EE EeeeeEeeeee eagle eetMINUTES OF EVIDENCE. 291
7 January, 1937.)
beneficial nature of our constructive work and they:
will see that not only is there no conflict of
interests between the Jewish people as a whole aad
the Arab people as a Whole Dut that tele interests
fare complementary. “We need each other. We
‘aan benefit each other, I have no doubt that at
Teast our neighbours around us in Syria, Iraq, and
Egypt will be the first to recognise dat fact and
from them this consciousness will also spread in
Palestine amongst our Arab” neighbours here,
because there Is no essential conflict. We have
never had 2 quarrel with the Arabs on our side,
neither with the Arabs in Palestine nor the Arabs
in other countries. On the contrary. We came
to this country with the consciousnest that, besides
saving ourselves and freeing and liberating our own
people, we had also a great civilizing task to achieve
here, and that we could be of great help to our
Arab neighbours here and in the surrounding
Countries, and T believe we have proved it by our
Mr. D. Bax-Guriox
[Continued
works, ‘The stronger we get, the greater our com-
munity becomes in Palestine, the greater or
colonisation work, the more developed our scientific
institutions become, the more will be recognised by
‘oar neighbours abroad and here the blessing of our
work and the mutual interest which exists
historically between the Jewish people which is
returning to its country, ietaming with the tradi
tion of European cultare, with the blessing of
European culture, and the Arab peoples aronnd us,
who also want to achieve not only formal. political
independence, but are also interested in achioving
fan economic, intellectual, spiritual, and. cultural
Fenaissance, and it Is our belief that'a great Jewish
community, fee Jewish ‘nation, ih Palestine,
with a lasge scope for its activities, will be of great
benefit fo our Arab neighsours, and from. the
secognition of this fact will come a lasting peace
and lasting co-operation between the two peoples
4547. Chairman: T understand you wish to make
some further points in a private sitting? —Yee