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SIMONEDE BEAUVOIR:
AN INTERVIEW
MARGARETA. SIMONS
and JESSICA BENJAMIN
INTRODUCTION
the issue of violence against women. She supports, and has on occa-
sion herself provided shelter for victims of wife abuse. In this activ-
ity she has aligned herself with the League for Women's Rights,
which has led a campaign to combat sexism in numerous areas of
French society. De Beauvoir admits that much of their activity is
essentially reformist, but that it is nonetheless valuable.
In my estimation,tearingreformsfrom the governmentmay be a stage on the
road to the revolution-on the condition, of course, that one is not satisfied
with these reformsbut makesthem instead the startingpoint for new demands.
Whilepreparingthe projectson antisexistlaws, the Leaguehas dedicateditself
to importantactions that are very much to the point. The Leagueinitiated a
campaignfor the denunciationof rapeand createdS.O.S. Alternativesto come
to the aid of batteredwomen. It had recourseto legal means-seeking the inter-
vention of FrancoiseGiroud-and illegalmeans-by the occupation of Plessis-
Robinson-in orderto assurea shelterfor batteredwomen.... Whymust
women throw down theirhands and accept everything? A revolutionaryatti-
tude today has to be a compromisewith existing conditions. To deny us the
meansof revoltingis to deny our revolt.5
Toward the latter part of our visit to Paris, an article written by
de Beauvoir appeared on the front page of Le Monde, a leading
French newspaper. The article argued for the necessity of a law
to combat sexism. De Beauvoir criticized a recent French court
decision acquitting a man who had beaten his wife nearly to death
and then left her in agony throughout the night until she died.
Whatwe challengeare the sexist motivationsthat led to this acquittal. For
havingbrokenseveralwindows, some young men were sentencedto years on
a prisonfarm. For havingmurderedhis wife, MonsieurLeberwill serveno
sentence,under the pretext that this offense arisesfrom the domaineof "love"
or from the conjugalrelation.... Does loving, then, implicitly authorizeone
to kill?
The verdict... seems to us in the highest degreeto reveala sexist mentality.
Contraryto what people claim, we feministsdo not wish to avengeourselves
on men. But the fact is that we have no choice. In orderto protect women,
it is necessaryto incarceratecertainmen. That does not satisfy us, we would
like to suppressviolence and in orderto do that it is necessaryto attack it at
its very roots.
Wewould like to act on the entire culturalenvironmentwhich supports
these masculine,aggressiveattitudesagainstwomen: advertising,pornography,
literature. An antisexismlaw would permitus to denounceeach case of sexist
discriminationbefore public opinion. In the long run, an antisexistreflex
would be createdwhich would have avoidedthe death of Mme. Leber. She
would not have accepted the beatings,he would not have daredto beat her
Simonede Beauvoir:AnInterview 335
was also aware of the situations that divide women. Her compara-
tive analysis of racism and sexism is more cognizant of their dis-
similarities than are many of the theories of contemporary, white
feminist theorists. De Beauvoir continued in the tradition of Mary
Wollstonecraft;and she anticipated the focus of much of contem-
porary feminism, by focusing on the contradictions inherent in the
lives of women confined to a limited domestic sphere. But she also
recognized the reality of privilege that such a role can represent to
the working woman, freedom from alienating labor in dead-end
jobs, and from the necessity, and anxiety, of having to support
herself and her children.
Although The Second Sex reflects the Freudianism then pre-
dominant in psychoanalytic theory, de Beauvoir attacked its sexist
concept of normalcy that effectively condemned women to depend-
ent, passive lives. She essentially turned psychoanalytic theory on
its head, considering it as evidence of the psychological depths of
woman's social and political oppression. She used these insights
to demand woman's social, economic, and'political autonomy, and
to argue for an end to sexist educational practices. Her critique of
sexism and psychoanalysis encompassed, as well a critique of hetero-
sexism: the ways that patriarchalideology is lived out in sexuality.
She saw lesbianism as an authentic alternative for women in a sexist
society offering, and legitimating, only inauthentic alternatives.
De Beauvoir'sanalysis of woman's oppression in The Second Sex
is open to many criticisms: for its idealism-her focus on myths
and images and her lack of practical strategies for liberation; for
its ethnocentrism and androcentric view-her tendency to generalize
from the experience of European bourgeois women, with a result-
ing emphasis on women's historic ineffectiveness. Still, we have no
theoretical source of comparable sweep that stimulates us to analyze
and relentlessly question our situation as women in so many do-
mains-literature, religion, politics, work, education, motherhood,
and sexuality. As contemporary theorists explore the issues raised
in The Second Sex, we can see that in a sense all feminist dialogue
entails a dialogue with Simone de Beauvoir. And a discussion with
her can be a way of locating ourselves within our feminist past,
present, and future.
INTERVIEW:PARIS, 13 MARCH1979
Margaret A. Simons: The Second Sex is important for us because
it gives us a theoretical foundation. What do you consider the fem-
inist theoretical foundation for The Second Sex? You mentioned
Virginia Woolf and Colette....
FeministStudies5, no. 2 (Summer1979).
O 1979 by MargaretA. Simonsand JessicaBenjamin.
Simone de Beauvoir: An Interview 337
enced by Sartre because I was writing from my lived and felt ex-
periences.
J.B.: So when you wrote in L'lnvitee that Francoise says what
really upsets her about XaviRreis that she has to confront in her
another consciousness, that is not an idea that particularly came
[from] Sartre ... ?
S.B.: It was I who thought about that! It was absolutely not
Sartre!
J.B.: But that is an idea which it seems to me appears later in his
work.
S.B.: Oh! Maybe! (Laughter) In any case, this problem... of the
other's consciousness, it was my problem.
M.S.: You have maintained such a close relationship. Maybe it is
difficult for other people to appreciate it. We do not have other
models.
S.B.: Maybe.
J.B.: Yet you must know that people in some way celebrate you
or think that you are a model for them. I think what astonishes
them is that you could have a relationship with such a powerful
man and not be overpowered by him.
S.B.: But that's the way it is.... (Laughter)
J.B.: What difference do you see between being alive in a world
with a feminist movement and being in a world without a feminist
movement?
S.B.: It is not a different world; anyway we live in the same world.
Only, it is enriching because many of [today's] feminists are very
conscious, very intelligent, very critical women, who understand
woman's situation very well. In short, they have taught me many
things based on their experience. Because, in fact, the great advan-
tage of feminism is that women communicate with each other much
more openly, much more sincerely, much more directly perhaps
than they used to, except with very intimate friends. In other
words, yes, it is indeed a great enrichment.
M.S.: After you wrote The Second Sex, what an outcry! People
were so negative.
S.B.: Yes, especially the men.
M.S.: Now, with a feminist movement, you have more support, it's
more of a positive encouragement for your ideas and acceptance....
340 MargaretA. Simonsand JessicaBenjamin
S.B.: As I explained in All Said and Done, I believe that the Other
is not simply an idealist relationship, it is a materialist relationship.
It is a power relationship, based also on scarcity.
J.B.: So you would put it in relation to the exchange principle, in
other words?
S.B.: But that would not change the book as a whole.... There, I
think I've told you quite a lot of things!
NOTES