IMMIGRATION AND REFUGEE BOARD

COMMISSION DE LIMMIGRATION ET
DU STATUT DE RFUGI

IMMIGRATION DIVISION

SECTION DE LIMMIGRATION

FileNo./Nodedossier:0018-A4-00902

Reasons and Decision / Motifs et dcision

Between

Entre

The Minister of Citizenship and Immigration

Le ministre de la Citoyennet et de lImmigration
and/et

ENAELI, AMJAD

Date(s)andplaceofhearing

Date(s)etlieudelaudience

MONTREAL
Dateofdecision

Datedeladcision

AUGUST 23rd, 2004

Member

Commissaire

OTTO NUPPONEN
Forthepersonconcerned

Pourlintress(e)

Me V. CARROZA
Ministerscounsel

Conseilduministre

TONINA IERMIERI

You can obtain the translation of these reasons for decision in the other official
language by writing to the Editing and Translation Services Directorate of the IRB,
344 Slater Street, 14th floor, Ottawa, Ontario, K1A 0K1 or by sending a request to
the following e-mail address: translation/traduction@irb.gc.ca or to facsimile
number (613) 947-3213.

Vous pouvez obtenir la traduction de ces motifs de dcision dans lautre langue
officielle en vous adressant par crit la Section de rvision et de traduction de la
CISR, 344, rue Slater, 14e tage, Ottawa (Ontario) K1A 0K1, par courrier
lectronique ladresse translation/traduction@cisr.gc.ca, ou par tlcopieur, au
(613) 947-3213.

1
File No : 0018-A4-00902
Date : August 23rd, 2004
Otto Nupponen, Member :
So, I am ready to provide my decision in the matter. As I noted at the
outset of the hearing, the question is whether you would be likely to voluntarily
report for removal. Today, we have listened to submissions by minister's counsel,
your counsel and we have also heard testimony from Mr. Rahouma (phonetic)
who is present as an individual from the community offering an alternative to
detention.
Prior to making my decision, I have also referred to Regulations 245 and
248 because those Sections do apply in this case. I also do take into account the
decision of member Beauchamp, which was rendered at the last hearing held on
August 16th, 2004. Taking all of that into account, I conclude that the offer of
member Beauchamp should stand in court order and I am not going to be making
any changes to the offer of release. I will explain why I reach that conclusion.
First, I will briefly outline some of the facts in the case. You first came to
Canada in January of 1999 as a student of English, you then took a course at the
Aero Fine Club (phonetic), a flying club in Montreal. It appears that you received
suitable funds from your parents for your living in Canada, it appears that your
father is fairly well-off, although it is not clear exactly what he does for a living, I
understand.
The problem in the case arises from the country of destination that the
removal would take place to. You are a national of Libya and that has been noted by
minister's counsel previously and today's hearing. The minister, at this point, is under
an obligation to remove you. As was noted by member Beauchamp at the last
hearing, it is the minister who decides where removal will take place to and when
that removal will take place. I do not have any jurisdiction in that matter.
At today's hearing, Mrs. Iermieri has advised us that the minister has
considered the alternative of removal to Tunisia and has been provided with a certain
timeframe, has been advised that your father would require some six weeks to get a
travel document, which would possibly allow you to be removed to Tunisia. I am
not satisfied that removal, in fact, could take place to Tunisia, that is something
which is up in the air still.
The minister's counsel noted that minister's agents have been in touch with
authorities here and they would require some 15 days to get a travel document for
you to be removed, presumably to Libya. The problem is that you do not want to go
back to Libya. Member Beauchamp concluded that to be the case at the last hearing,
I do not see that there is any reason to change that interpretation of the facts. In
other words, I too conclude that you do not want to go back to Libya.

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File No : 0018-A4-00902
Date : August 23rd, 2004
If anything, I think it is somewhat clearer today, in fact, that there is concern
probably not just by yourself in going back to Libya. From my interpretation of the
testimony provided by Mr. Sawa (phonetic), your father as well appears to have
some reservations about your being removed to Libya. That explains why he is
obviously interested in trying to get you to some place other than Libya.
So, the problem that I am faced with is that at this point in time, it appears
that there might be a removal taking place to Libya and I need to consider would
you go back voluntarily. I acknowledge that Mr. Sawa has made an offer of an
alternative, I agree with minister's counsel on how that offer needs to be looked at,
namely I do not have any doubts whatsoever that Mr. Rahouma is providing the
offer in good faith, I have no doubts whatsoever of that, I am sure that he really
does want to try to help you out in the matter.
I believe that he probably wants to help your father out as well, because he
is in close touch with your father. However, that still does not get us around the
problem that you do not wish to return to Libya. I acknowledge that
Mr. Rahouma is retired and he would probably have quite a bit of time to occupy
himself with you, if need be. There was an indication that there are two other
children, it was not indicated whether those two children would be involved in the
endeavour as well.
However, it seems to me that there was also some concern of removal to
Libya expressed by Mr. Rahouma himself, namely when he was questioned about
what role he would play, he indicated in certain words that he would assist in
trying to help in finding out if there was some place other than Libya that you
could go to. So, clearly there is a desire by any number of people for you not to
go back to Libya.
I do not have any doubt that Mr. Rahouma understands the obligation that
you are under and the obligation that he would be under. I think he is quite aware
that if the government says that you have to go back to Libya, then he understands
and he believes that you understand that that is what should take place. However,
I am not satisfied that, in spite of all that, he is in a position to insure that it does
take place or to make it likely that that takes place, in fact.
He indicates that he has raised his children well, I am sure most parents
probably do say that and I do not have any question that Mr. Rahouma has raised
his children well. He indicates that he would teach the same values to you if you
were in his home. Well, the fact is you are going to be in Canada for a very short
time, I frankly do not know that it makes much difference in the teaching of
values at this point, that seems to me that whatever values you have are not going
to be changed in the matter of two weeks by anything that Mr. Rahouma says.

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File No : 0018-A4-00902
Date : August 23rd, 2004
Part of that background that I am looking at, of course, is this no-interest in
returning to Libya. I acknowledge that Mr. Rahouma has known you for some
three and a half years and he lost or he began speaking with you last when you
entered jail and he has been in contact with you since. You have visited his home
six to seven times, he knew that you have lived in several places in the Montreal
area, so I do not have any questions that he, generally speaking, knows about you
and the fact that you came here as a student.
However, he was somewhat unclear about your actual status in Canada,
that does not particularly concern me because I do acknowledge that he does
understand that there is a removal order, which will need to be enforced. Now, the
minister's counsel did make submissions as to your dependability. She described
the various stories which you have been giving regarding the passport. Frankly,
that sort of matter does not overly concern me.
I do not know that that sort of dependability issue bears a great deal on the
matter of your returning to Libya, frankly. The fact is that there appears to have
been a passport, which has been sent to the family. Father, in all likelihood, and
the father is trying to do what he can to make sure that another document perhaps
is in place, so that something can be done with respect to arrangements for you
leaving Canada.
The minister's counsel made reference to other explanations, which you
have given, that is with respect to the making of a claim to refugee protection and
the pre-removal risk assessment matter. Again, I do not know that those matters
are hugely important other than to note that behind all of this, over all, it is your
desire not to go back to Libya. In so, I do agree with the decision that was
reached by member Beauchamp, I agree that the main problem here is the fact that
you do not wish to return to Libya.
If you were returned to another location, then the likelihood of appearing
would be quite a different scenario. However, from what I have been told today,
it appears that Libya is, in fact, a place where removal will likely take place to, so,
therefore, we are looking at that one problem scenario today. Although the
alternative has been proposed, I have carefully thought about it and I am not
satisfied with any fact of alternative.
So, therefore, I am going to continue your detention. I will leave in place
the order which was made by member Beauchamp at the last hearing. The next
hearing, if required, will be held within 30 days, we will shortly set the time and
the date for that review. This hearing is concluded.

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File No : 0018-A4-00902
Date : August 23rd, 2004

___________________________________
OTTO NUPPONEN, Member
Mrs. Tonina Iermieri, minister's counsel
Me V. Carroza, counsel
Mr. Rahouma, observer
Mrs. Sana Ladki, interpreter
I hereby certify that this is a true
and faithful transcription of this
decision.
August 30th, 2004
_____________________________
Francine Langevin
/Audio Stno Transcript