S. HRG.

114253

BUSINESS MEETING

MEETING
BEFORE THE

COMMITTEE ON
ENVIRONMENT AND PUBLIC WORKS
UNITED STATES SENATE
ONE HUNDRED FOURTEENTH CONGRESS
FIRST SESSION

JANUARY 21, 2015

Printed for the use of the Committee on Environment and Public Works

(
Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys

U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE

99927

WASHINGTON

PDF

2016

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COMMITTEE ON ENVIRONMENT AND PUBLIC WORKS

ONE HUNDRED FOURTEENTH CONGRESS
FIRST SESSION
JAMES M. INHOFE,
DAVID VITTER, Louisiana
JOHN BARRASSO, Wyoming
SHELLEY MOORE CAPITO, West Virginia
MIKE CRAPO, Idaho
JOHN BOOZMAN, Arkansas
JEFF SESSIONS, Alabama
ROGER WICKER, Mississippi
DEB FISCHER, Nebraska
MIKE ROUNDS, South Dakota
DAN SULLIVAN, Alaska

Oklahoma, Chairman
BARBARA BOXER, California
THOMAS R. CARPER, Delaware
BENJAMIN L. CARDIN, Maryland
BERNARD SANDERS, Vermont
SHELDON WHITEHOUSE, Rhode Island
JEFF MERKLEY, Oregon
KIRSTEN GILLIBRAND, New York
CORY A. BOOKER, New Jersey
EDWARD J. MARKEY, Massachusetts

RYAN JACKSON, Majority Staff Director

BETTINA POIRIER, Democratic Staff Director

(II)

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C O N T E N T S
Page

JANUARY 21, 2015

OPENING STATEMENTS
Inhofe, Hon. James M., U.S. Senator from the State of Oklahoma ....................
Boxer, Hon. Barbara, U.S. Senator from the State of California ........................

21
23

LEGISLATION
EPW Committee Resolution, Authorizing expenditures by the Committee on
Environment and Public Works ..........................................................................
Text of the amendment by Senator Inhofe ............................................................
Senate Committee Print, Rules Adopted February 14, 2013 ...............................

4
10
13

ADDITIONAL MATERIAL
Colloquy between Chairman Inhofe and Senator Boxer ......................................

(III)

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BUSINESS MEETING
WEDNESDAY, JANUARY 21, 2015

U.S. SENATE
PUBLIC WORKS
Washington, DC.
Committee on Environment and Public Works Washington, DC.
The full committee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:30 a.m. in room
406, Dirksen Senate Building, Hon. James Inhofe (chairman of the
full committee) presiding.
COMMITTEE

ON

ENVIRONMENT

AND

(1)

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3
Present: Senators Inhofe, Boxer, Barrasso, Capito, Crapo,
Rounds, Sullivan, Wicker, Boozman, Whitehouse, Carper, Merkley,
Booker, Merkley.
Senator BOXER. Ladies and gentlemen of the committee, see this
gavel? The last time it got transferred was 8 years ago and I had
to fight Senator Inhofe for it. This time, I have to say, you and I
are friends.
Senator INHOFE. Of course.
Senator BOXER. And if I was going to hand this gavel over to
anyone, I am very happy that it is you.
So I am going to hand that gavel to you, and when you recognize
me I have some gifts for you, too.
[Laughter.]
Senator INHOFE. Oh, good. Well, lets do this. Lets start by bringing us to order. We will be in order. I will just go ahead and recognize you for your special awards.
Senator BOXER. For the gift-giving, OK.
Senator INHOFE. By the way, I remember the statement that she
said that got everyones attention was that elections have consequences, and I have the gavel.
Senator BOXER. That is right.
Senator INHOFE. Now, I have a picture of that that she presented
to me, and it looks like you are just about to hit me with it.
[Laughter.]
Senator BOXER. Well, I have no intention of doing that. But I am
glad you reminded everyone that I gleefully said when I got that
gavel, elections have consequences. I was gleeful, today I am not
so gleeful. But elections have consequences.
So my first gift is this tee-shirt that says, Elections Have Consequences.
[Laughter.]
Senator INHOFE. That is great.
Senator BOXER. That is my first gift.
Now, Jim, I think everybody knows that we work well together.
Everybody knows that we work well together on highways, infrastructure, and on a few other things. A few. But I wanted to say
how much I look forward to working with you on the highway bill.
Here is something for your grandkids.
This truck symbolizes the jobs that we will create when we work
successfully, 3 million. And 600,000 construction workers are still
out of work since the recession. This is for you for your grandkids.
And now we get a little more controversial. This is a very clean
car. It is a Prius. And I dont know that it is your favorite model,
but as we build our roads, we want to make sure we dont dirty
the air.
Senator INHOFE. And that is why I am using CNG in my car.
Senator BOXER. Oh, all right. I am so proud of you.
Senator INHOFE. Which is now in Oklahoma more expensive than
regular gasoline, did you know that, Neil? It is.
Senator BOXER. Well, this last gift is the most controversial gift.
And it is for your grandkids, and it is a bicycle. And it is a reminder, when we take up the highway bill, to remember that 35
million Americans do use bicycles, a lot of them for work. I know

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it is a controversial issue, but I think your grandkids would enjoy
this.
And Jim, I mean it when I say, handing this gavel over to you,
I am sad I am doing it, but I am so happy for you.
Senator INHOFE. That is good, that is good.
[Applause.]
Senator INHOFE. There you go, thank you.
All right. We do have some things that we always do, and that
is we have to at some point have to have 11 people here to pass
our resolutions. So if staff would remind me when the 11th one
shows up, I would appreciate it and we will go ahead and get that
done.
We have some great new members on this committee. I look over
and see my friend on the Democrat side. We have a lot of issues
where we are working together, so we are looking forward to that.
We have three of the new members of the U.S. Senate, Senator
Rounds, Senator Sullivan and Senator Capito. They are all very interested in this committee. They made a special request to be on
this committee. It is going to be joyful to get their input and the
background they have. Senator Sullivan had experiences with
many of the things that we deal with on this committee up in Alaska. So we will be doing that.
So let me do this. A couple of things we will be doing is, the early
bird rule, we have done that in the past. We have deviated from
that in the past. We are going to be adhering to that.
We also, I am going to make an effort, and I would like to have
all of you think about this between now and the meeting of the
28th, a week from today when we have our highway meeting. We
have Secretary Fox who is going to be here. And Secretary Ridley,
I am not sure whether you are planning to be there for that one
or not, but there will be a lot of people here.
So I have felt that our opening statements, with as large as this
committee is, uses up all of our time. In that particular committee
hearing, we are going to have a bunch of Governors here, at least
two that I know of, one from Connecticut is on a short term. So
we are going to maybe talk about this between now and then. In
the Senate Armed Services Committee, we have the ranking member and the chairman with opening statements and not the rest of
them. So we are going to consider that.
For todays purpose, I know that we are going to both have opening statements, Senator Boxer and myself. And we will open it up
for hopefully fairly short opening statements from the other members.
But right now I think we have 11 here, is that correct? So if it
is all right, I am going to go ahead and skip over to the two things
that we have to do today in conjunction with business. One is to
call up the EPW Committee Resolution which funds the committee
through February 2017 in three financial periods. Those financial
periods are between March and September, then October to October, then October to February. Not that that is significant, but this
is the way we have divided it up before. Everyone already has this,
and I would ask that we would approve that report.
[The text of the resolution follows:]

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Senator INHOFE. All in favor say aye.
[Chorus of ayes.]
Senator INHOFE. Opposed, no.
[No audible response.]
Senator INHOFE. The ayes have it and it is adopted.
The second one is the first Inhofe amendment, and that is the
amendment to the committee rules, that is Amendment No. 1. This
amendment is a technical change to Rule 2(a) concerning quorums.
In previous Congresses, the committee had 18 members and a
quorum was one-third. In this Congress, we have 20 members, so
the amendment simply updates the rule to require 7 members to
meet. I would ask for that approval.
[The text of the amendment by Senator Inhofe follows:]

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Senator BOXER. Second.
Senator INHOFE. All in favor, say aye.
[Chorus of ayes.]
Senator INHOFE. Opposed, no.
[No audible response.]
Senator INHOFE. The ayes have it and we have adopted that.
The third one doesnt require a change but it is what we want
to do, this is more in the way of an announcement. We are going
to go back to the way we were 8 years ago when I chaired this committee. We have four subcommittees. Then we increased it to five
when we lost our majority on the Republican side. Now we are
going to go back to four. Originally served, we had these same four
committees.
Those subcommittees will be Transportation and Infrastructure,
and that will be chaired by Senator Vitter. The second one is Clean
Air and Nuclear Safety. That will be chaired by Senator Capito.
The third is Waste Management and Regulation Oversight. That
will be chaired by Senator Rounds. And the last one is Fisheries,
Wildlife and Water, chaired by Senator Sullivan.
The interesting thing here is that three of the four subcommittees are chaired by people who are brand new, the newly elected
ones. So we will great new input and also great new talent.
With that, let me just go ahead do an opening statement.
Senator BOXER. Mr. Chairman, before you move to that, we had
gone over colloquy. Would this be the appropriate time to do it?
Senator INHOFE. Sure. Am I a part of this colloquy?
Senator BOXER. A big part. You keep saying, Thats correct.
[Laughter.]
Senator BOXER. And I may change what I ask you.
[Laughter.]
Senator BOXER. I am sure you have seen this.
Senator INHOFE. OK, that is fine.
Senator BOXER. I also want to thank the new members for choosing this committee. I am excited to be working with you. Really,
we do have, in this committee, the opportunity to work across party
lines on some things. On other things, we will go toe to toe and it
wont be happy. It wont be happy for you.
Senator INHOFE. I believe Senator Booker is the first, you just
got on this committee?
Senator BOXER. No, he was here.
Senator INHOFE. Do you have any new members on your side?
Senator BOXER. No.
Senator INHOFE. They have all been there before, OK.
Senator BOXER. That is right.
Senator INHOFE. Good.
Senator BOXER. So let me just again welcome the new members.
Mr. Chairman, it is my understanding that in keeping with the
practice of the committee, you and the subcommittee chairmen will
make every effort to consult with me and the subcommittee ranking members prior to announcing a committee or subcommittee
hearing and prior to setting the agenda for a committee or subcommittee meeting.
Senator INHOFE. That is correct.

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Senator BOXER. And further, Mr. Chairman, it is my understanding that in keeping with our committee practice, you and the
subcommittee chairmen will make every effort to provide me and
the subcommittee ranking member opportunity for topic and schedule consultation at least 2 weeks prior to any hearing.
Senator INHOFE. That is correct.
Senator BOXER. And again in keeping with our practice, the
chairman and ranking members will strive to attain a balance of
interests of the majority and minority in selecting the witnesses for
hearings.
Senator INHOFE. Yes, we will make that effort.
Senator BOXER. All right.
Senator INHOFE. I would like to ask for a motion to approve the
rules as amended.
Senator BOXER. So moved.
Senator INHOFE. Second?
Senator ROUNDS. Seconded.
Senator INHOFE. All those in favor, say aye.
[Chorus of ayes.]
Senator INHOFE. Opposed, no.
[No audible response.]
Senator INHOFE. The ayes have it.
[The Senate Committee Print, Rules Adopted February 14, 2013
follows.]

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22
OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. JAMES INHOFE,
U.S. SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF OKLAHOMA

Senator INHOFE. Well, first of all, we have already welcomed the

new members. Senator Boxer and I have a long history of working
together, particularly in the areas that she mentioned on highways.
That is going to be our thing coming right out of the chute, the first
thing we do.
In fact, our first hearing will be a week from today, the 28th.
And it will be a hearing on highways. We are going to have Secretary Fox, which has been a good appointment. I have enjoyed
working with him. He is going to be here with, I believe four Governors. So we will look forward to that. That is going to be a very
significant one.
It is one of the things we have to do. We have had some great
progress that we have made. We had a lot of objection on the Republican side last time we had our 27-month bill that we had. That
was a problem. And I had a hard time explaining to some of the
Republicans that the conservative position is to pass a highway reauthorization bill. Because the only alternative to that is to have
short-term extensions. And as Secretary Ridley will say, it costs us
about 30 percent off the top in order to have those short-terms, and
you cant get any reforms. The reforms that we had in the bill, the
27-month bill, I was very appreciative of Senator Boxer in going
along with some of the streamlining aspects that really were very
favorable. So that is what we are going to be doing.
On water, the oversight is going to be started as early as February 4th, when this committee will hold a joint hearing with the
House Transportation and Infrastructure Committee on the EPAs
Waters of the United States proposed rule. This is very significant.
Probably this is singled out by the farmers, through their organizations like the Farmers Union and the National Farm Bureau, as
being the most significant thing to farmers. I have talked to each
of our new members about this. They all are fully aware of the
problems there.
On climate, another top priority we will be conducting rigorous
oversight of the EPA regulations. I strongly believe the Presidents
misguided agenda on climate change has led to an onslaught of
new regulations that is endangering the future of job creation, energy independence and reliability of the power grid. We will be
talking about that today and I understand we are going to have
some amendments today.
As we approach the oversight of the Presidents climate action
bill, it is important for the committee to note that the Nations
gross, since 1970, this is significant, nobody ever talks about this,
the Nations gross domestic product has increased by 234 percent.
The miles Americans have traveled has increased by 168 percent.
The population has increased by 54 percent. This is all since 1970.
And also since 1970, according to the EPA, emissions from pollutants such as SOx and NOx and PM have decreased by 68 percent.
So think about the success of that. I can remember when the
amendments, back in 1989, I guess it was, they were the amendments, and Senator Boxer and I were both original co-sponsors of
the amendments to the Clean Air Act that has been so successful.
So that was a good start.

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So despite this success, they are talking about the significant
greenhouse gas regulation package scheduled for this summer. As
proposed, EPAs regulations would raise energy prices, destroy jobs
and impose billions of dollars in costs.
I always go back to the statement that we had when the first
designee or the first nomination that the President made, President Obama, was to the EPA, Lisa Jackson. I recall sitting right
here in this room with her as a witness and saying, Madam Administrator, if we were to pass some of the cap and trade bills that we
are talking about today, or the regulations that would bring us cap
and trade, would this have a reduction in overall CO2 emissions.
She said, no, it wouldnt, because this isnt where the problem is.
The problem is in China, it is in India, it is in Mexico. And you
could carry that argument out further and say if we reduce them
here, and our jobs are chased offshore, you could have the result
of increasing, not decreasing, CO2 emissions.
The Wall Street Journal in June called the proposal when it
came out, just came out from the Administration, a huge indirect
tax and wealth redistribution scheme that the EPA is imposing by
fiat will profoundly touch every American.
NERA agrees, by the way, you quote them quote often. In its October analysis, it is a non-partisan economic analysis firm, it
projects that the costs to comply with EPAs plan would be $479
billion. We know of course that that is one of the main reasons,
that was the wake-up call back in 2002, when everyone kind of
thought, well, global warming must be real, therefore everyone
thought that was the fast ticket to the White House, to introduce
a bill for cap and trade, until they found out what the cost was
going to be.
At that time, it was the Charles Rivers Associates, MIT, the
Wharton School and others that came out with cost ranges as to
what it would cost for cap and trade. The range was always between $300 billion and $400 billion a year. That is when people
started looking at the science and realizing there was another side
to it.
So NAAQS, we are going to be talking about NAAQS right now
with the proposal, of those NAAQS that will have the effect of placing over 600 counties in non-attainment. Everyone of my 77 counties in Oklahoma would be out of attainment. The TSCA, we know
we have been working on that for quite a while and we will be
working on that bill. Endangered species, finally, for the first time
in a long while we will place a focus on needed oversight for implement of the Endangered Species Act.
So that, along with nuclear, we are going to be very busy on this
committee.
In closing, I want to briefly review and get into the record the
three guiding principles this committee will follow when conducting
oversight and reporting legislation from this committee. These are
the same ones that we put in in 2003 when I became chairman of
this committee 12 years ago this day. No. 1 is, does the proposal
make the bureaucracy more efficient, effective and accountable?
No. 2, is the proposal fiscally responsible, based on sound science,
and do we know the true benefits and costs to American con-

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sumers? And No. 3, finally, how does the proposal affect property
owners, local communities and taxpayers?
So those are what the guiding principles will be as we have had
in the past.
Senator BOXER.
OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. BARBARA BOXER,
U.S. SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA

Senator BOXER. Thank you so much, Mr. Chairman.

I really appreciate your proving the point that clean air regulation works. You lauded the Clean Air Act Amendments of 1990. It
is important to go back and look at the record, the polluters predicted a disaster. But George Herbert Walker Bush signed those,
and we have had huge growth since then. And in the 1970s that
you mentioned, Richard Nixon signed it.
So cleaning up the environment in the past has always been a
bipartisan effort. Lets face facts: it has changed. The very things
that you are saying about the disaster of the climate change plan
of the President, they echo those words of the polluters back then.
And I have to say, we did get 56 votes when all is said and done
for our cap and trade, but it did fail. And I know you were glad,
because you do believe it would be terrible for America.
I disagree strongly, because I come from a State that has an incredible climate change program. And we are thriving. And our
budgets are balanced. And everybody is excited to partake. When
the polluters came in, the oil companies, and tried to overturn the
cap and trade system, the voters said, no, we like it, we like clean
air, it is important.
I want to point out, we will continue to argue about this and I
am so respectful of your views, and I ask that you be respectful of
mine. Ninety-eight percent of the scientists are now saying the following. We now face a choice between an unpleasant planet, unpleasant planet, and an uninhabitable planet. And I will tell you,
we wont be around in 56 years unless there is a miracle. And it
is going to be our great grandkids, our grandkids.
I just want the record to show that sitting back and saying, we
are not going to do anything on this because, a, it is a hoax, which
makes no sense to me, and b, it is going to cost us jobs, which
makes no sense to me, given the record of environmental regulation, I just think it is sad to be on that side of the coin. We will
continue to push on this side. Now, that is the controversy.
On the infrastructure, Mr. Chairman, there is very little distance
between us. We may argue around the edges, and that is fine, we
will compromise on those things. But I am going to work with you
as hard as I can, because as you know, I announced that I wont
be running in 2016. What I want to do is have a legacy of working
with you on infrastructure. I think we can bring everybody together on this committee and in the Senate. So I am going to work
my heart out with you on that.
I want to put up a cautionary note here. Your wonderful people
are here from your State to celebrate with you today. And they
know that this uncertainty that we are facing with the Highway
Trust Fund is dangerous for our businesses and dangerous for our
workers. I am very concerned that the whole Trust Fund expires

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in three and a half months or so. We know how long it takes to
get one of these bills done. You and I had agreed on the last bill,
Senator Vitter did as well, Senator Carper, all of us working together. So we have a place to start.
And I want to urge you, and I think it is, all the things that you
outlined are very important issues, I have no problem with that.
I think it is going to be exciting, some of the issues that you are
bringing up. Not necessarily uncontroversial but important that we
do them. But nothing could be more important. Do you know there
are still 600,000 construction workers that havent been working
since the great recession? That is down from 2 million.
So we have done well here in what we have done on the Highway
Bill. I am a little bit concerned about the House, every time I try
to see where they are coming from. That is why I so value Senator
Capito being here, because she knows how to work with the House
people, because she just came from there. I am a little concerned
that they dont sense that urgency and that they are looking for
more and more of these short-term extensions. The only way for us
to take a stand against that philosophy is to pass a bill here.
So I would urge you to take the bill that we passed out of here
the last time, make some changes. I will work with you on it, others will. And lets get going, because really, we all care about jobs,
both sides of the aisle. There is no disagreement.
And I think on this committee we all know we want a bill. So
whereas everything else you talked about is a bit more controversial, the infrastructure is not. I am excited to work with you on
that highway bill.
And again, Mr. Chairman, congratulations, and I really look forward to our ongoing work together.
Senator INHOFE. Let me just respond to one thing. And I am not
going to make a habit of this, but let me allay your fears about the
House. Because after we had that bill vote in the Senate, that day
I went over and requested an audience with the T&I Republicans,
33 of them. I explained to them the same thing I just said here,
what the conservative position was. Every one of the 33 voted for
it. So I think the House is going to be very cooperative.
Senator BOXER. I hope so.
Senator INHOFE. OK, we are going to follow the early bird rule.
The first one to show up, who will be No. 1, is Senator Capito.
Senator CAPITO. Mr. Chairman and Ranking Member, it is wonderful to be on the committee, and an honor to serve. I have no real
opening statement, except I am very appreciative of the areas that
we are going to be looking at. Obviously there are heavy impacts,
different impacts in a State like mine, such as West Virginia and
California. I am very thrilled to be chairing the subcommittee as
well, I appreciate that.
Just as a mote of interest, I am not the only native West Virginian on the committee. My compatriot, Senator Carper, was born
in West Virginia.
Senator CARPER. Havent been there since Saturday.
[Laughter.]
Senator CAPITO. Yes, your aunt, I think you told me you were
going to your aunts funeral. So with that, I would just say thank

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you very much, I think it is going to be a great couple of years and
I appreciate the opportunity to serve. Thank you.
Senator INHOFE. Thank you.
Senator Booker.
Senator BOOKER. Three things. One, I want to congratulate Senator Inhofe, with your gavel. I really look forward to working with
you. I am glad that we have some history already working together, and I think there is so much space, as you said, for bipartisan agreement. There is urgency for it.
No. 2, I want to say to Senator Boxer, my heart aches, not just
about the passing of the gavel, but more importantly about your
announcement that this will be your last 2 years in the U.S. Senate. I will savor every single day I get a chance to serve with you.
Then finally, I want to say to Senator Inhofe, I think it is really,
really good that you are eliminating opening statements.
[Laughter.]
Senator INHOFE. Thank you very much.
Senator Rounds.
Senator ROUNDS. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would simply say,
brevity is critical and I will yield my time.
Senator INHOFE. Good. We appreciate that.
Senator Carper.
Senator CARPER. Thanks, Mr. Chairman. Congratulations on assuming the leadership of this committee again. I look forward to
working with you. The four of us served together in the House a
few years ago, and it is great to be able to serve with each of you
again in these roles.
I am happy to welcome our new Senator from West Virginia. I
was driving to West Virginia on the way to the funeral Saturday,
Shelley, and it was just a beautiful, sunshiny day. Abundant sunshine, blue skies. We were driving through West Virginia, and it
says Wild and Wonderful. I think, boy, what a glorious place.
Happy to be here, happy to be home with my family.
To all the new members, welcome. We are happy for you to join
us.
The message for me coming out of the election was that folks in
our States want us to work together, they want us to make
progress on real issues and they want us to strengthen the economic recovery. As both Senator Inhofe and Senator Boxer have
said, one of the best ways to strengthen the economic recovery is
to come to agreement on a robust, fulsome transportation investment program for our Nation.
And as Democrats, a lot of times we think about other people
who could be working to build roads, highways, bridges, transit
systems. As Barbara said, 600,000 or 700,000 is a lot of people who
would love to be back working. There real benefit, though, from us
coming to agreement not only on the authorization but also on the
funding for the bill, which I will be working on as a member of the
Finance Committee with a number of you, but the real payoff
comes from our ability to just in time economy, to be able to move
goods and products throughout our Country, throughout our Nation
and to export markets as well. That is one of the reasons why we
get the real GDP growth from transportation investment. So I am
anxious to work with you on that.

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One of my takeaways from the President last night is there are
a bunch of areas where we actually have some agreement, a bunch
of areas where we have some agreement. What Mike Enzi likes to
say, he has this 8020 rule. He says, we agree on 80 percent of the
stuff, we disagree on 20 percent of the stuff. Lets focus on the 80
percent that we agree on and we will come back to the other 20
percent some other time.
Not everybody agreed with George Herbert Walker Bush some 20
years ago, over 20 years ago, when he was President. He came up
with this idea of a cap and trade system to address the emissions
of sulfur dioxide. Cap and trade, since I first heard about it, I
thought, well, what is this?
But actually he pushed it hard, and I ended up thinking, maybe
that makes sense, we ought to try it. And there were people who
said, this will create havoc in the economy, this will never work.
And it turned out, we ended up meeting our reduction goals in sulfur dioxide in half the time, half the time it was for gas and at
about less than half the cost.
So lets keep that in mind. Sometimes we might want to be
dismissive of new ideas. That is just an old idea that actually
worked pretty well not that long ago.
Thank you.
Senator INHOFE. Good. Any other comments?
We are adjourned.
[Whereupon, at 10:58 a.m., the meeting was adjourned.]
[Additional material submitted for the record follows.]

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