New Movement Invictas Marked Swiss When in Fact Chinese

#1
Yesterday, 07:37 PM
DIAMANTE Join Date: Dec 2008
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New Movement Invictas marked Swiss
Has anyone noticed that some Invicta models that previously used the ETA G10 and were
marked Swiss Made are now using the Ronda 5040d and are now labled simply Swiss?
This includes some Reserve models as well - Akula for example.
There was some discussion about this when the Amazon exclusive models appeared,
particularly the Venom. It was hundreds less used the Ronda 5040d and was marked
Swiss.
My theory is that these models have the Asian version of the Ronda 5040d and therefore
cannot be labeled Swiss Made.
I asked JSkelton about this (when the Amazon Venom was being discussed) and he said
he didn't know but he would ask Eyal.
I don't think the quality has suffered and the Ronda 5040d (even the Asian made version)
has nicer features than the ETA G10. I just want to know if my theory is correct.
D
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#2
Yesterday, 07:42 PM
Join Date: Mar 2009
Kahuna Cowboy Location: Austin Texas..... Y'all
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I have wondered the same thing. If true it is pretty shady from my point of view.
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#3
Yesterday, 07:43 PM
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yes we beat this subject to death earlier LOL
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#4
Yesterday, 10:00 PM
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Evidently there are Russian Divers on Amazon that are not Swiss Made...
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#5
Yesterday, 10:06 PM
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samuelrz Posts: 1,299
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Swiss and Swiss Made mean the exact same thing. Sometimes the word Swiss appears on
the case back too. The vendor may even choose to not put it on there at all, but it is a
selling point so they do. The wording and location are all at the discretion of the designer.
If there is room on the dial, etc. Ronda 5040 movements tend to have more complications
on them and some Russian Divers even have them at the 3 O'clock position.
Please do a search of the forum on the subject of "Swiss vs. Swiss Made" and let's let this
thread die before jumping to all sort of wild conclusions.
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#6
Yesterday, 10:14 PM
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Flyback Posts: 17,356
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DIAMANTE
cannot be labled Swiss Made.
Sorry, that wouldn't be allowed under U.S. Customs country of origin labeling regulations.
If you read the following excerpts from the regs. you will note that the country of origin of
the movement must should appear on the dial or case back. A company subject to U.S.
Customs regs, could not put Swiss on the dial when in fact the movement was made in
Asia.
U.S. Customs Regulations, 19 CFR Part 177
Chapter 91, Additional U.S. Note 4, Harmonized Tariff Schedule of the United States, sets
forth special marking requirements for watches and clocks:
(a) Watch movements shall be marked on one or more of the bridges or top plates to
show:
(i) the name of the country of manufacture,
(ii) the name of the manufacturer or purchaser, and
(iii) in words, the number of jewels, if any, serving a mechanical purpose as frictional
bearings.
(c) Watch cases shall be marked on the inside or outside of the back to show:
(i) the name of the country of manufacture, and
(ii) the name of the manufacturer or purchaser.
The above movements and cases must be conspicuously and indelibly marked by cutting,
die-sinking, engraving, stamping (including by means of indelible ink), or mold-marking.
Movements with opto-electronic display only and cases designed for use therewith,
whether entered as separate articles or as components of assembled watches or clocks,
are excepted from these special marking requirements.
Watches and clocks are also subject to the normal country of origin marking requirements
of 19 U.S.C. 1304, and under these requirements, the movement’s country of origin should
appear conspicuously and legibly on the dial face or on the outside of the back. In
addition, watchbands should be marked with the country of manufacture of the band,
unless the watchband is attached in the country where the watch was produced.
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#7
Yesterday, 10:14 PM
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this has been discussed many many times in the past. search is your friend
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#8
Yesterday, 10:18 PM
Join Date: Feb 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by samuelrz
Swiss and Swiss Made mean the exact same thing. Sometimes the word Swiss appears on
the case back too. The vendor may even choose to not put it on there at all, but it is a
selling point so they do. The wording and location are all at the discretion of the
designer. If there is room on the dial, etc. Ronda 5040 movements tend to have more
complications on them. Some Russian Divers even have them at the 3 O'clock position.
Please do a search of the forum on the subject of "Swiss vs. Swiss Made" and let's let
this thread die before jumping to all sort of wild conclusions.
Sorry Sam, Swiss and Swiss Made as used in the U.S. do not mean the same thing.
In the U.S., Swiss Made is controlled through the Swiss Federation's USPTO registered
trademark, and Federation member or not, their rules must be followed under their
trademark rights.
Swiss at the 6 position when used by a non-federation member in the U.S. does not
necessarily mean the same as Swiss Made. It's entirely up to the non-member company's
policy, so long as it complies with U.S. Customs regulations that require the movement
used in the watch to be from the country of origin placed on the dial. So at a minimum,
you know that a watch so labeled has a Swiss movement.
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#9
Yesterday, 10:20 PM
Join Date: Feb 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wave3214
this has been discussed many many times in the past. search is your friend
Steve, it seems that the search tool isn't going to be used in this respect, and as a result, I
will continue to post the fact of the matter surrounding Swiss and Swiss Made until
everyone has seen it . . .
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#10
Yesterday, 10:28 PM
Join Date: Mar 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyback
Sorry Sam, Swiss and Swiss Made as used in the U.S. do not mean the same thing.
In the U.S., Swiss Made is controlled through the Swiss Federation's USPTO registered
trademark, and Federation member or not, their rules must be followed under their
trademark rights.
Swiss at the 6 position when used by a non-federation member in the U.S. does not
necessarily mean the same as Swiss Made. It's entirely up to the non-member
company's policy, so long as it complies with U.S. Customs regulations that require the
movement used in the watch to be from the country of origin placed on the dial. So at a
minimum, you know that a watch so labeled has a Swiss movement.
Flyback,
If customs requires the dial to be marked with the country of orgin, how did Invicta get
away with the OTV carbon fiber RD's, and the Sea Spider Sport?
The Sea Spider Sport was marked "Swiss," the RD "Swiss Movt" on the dial. The
casebacks were labeled "Swiss Parts Movt" on both.
We all know that "Swiss Parts Movt" are from the Orient in origin. So wouldn't the
casebacks and dials need to be marked as such for importation?
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#11
Yesterday, 10:30 PM
Join Date: Mar 2009
Wait a minute, I got it now. Send a Rhonda movement to the factories in the orient for
build, ship back to Switzerland for sale to watch companies. That would do it right Brad?
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#12
Yesterday, 10:33 PM
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From what i understand swiss and swiss made are 1 in the same. There is a swiss parts
movt. 5040d but it would say that on the watch somewhere.
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#13
Yesterday, 10:34 PM
Join Date: Feb 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kahuna Cowboy
Flyback,
Excellent question, and one to which I don't have the answer. I rely on the published regs.
when making my statements on the labeling issue, and there may very well be unpublished
enforcement guidelines that allow this, or those who do so are just not being tagged for the
non-compliance. In my thinkging, it would have to be one or the other.
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#14
Yesterday, 10:35 PM
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We need a Swiss Forum.

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#15
Yesterday, 10:37 PM
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dacathey Posts: 1,038
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Swiss made is the trademarked phrase. Swiss is not except for Federation members of
which Invicta is not a member. So if they put a swiss parts movement in a watch labeled
"swiss made" then customs would pull them and enforce the trademark. If it says swiss
then nothing happens.
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#16
Yesterday, 10:39 PM
Join Date: Feb 2008
True WatchGeek
Quote:
It's not that complicated. I've manged intellectual property both nationally and
internationally for a number of companies since the mid '80s. The problem here, no matter
how many times something is stated, people only remember what they want to.
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#17
Yesterday, 10:41 PM
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Quote:
Flyback,
Can you put together a Sticky in the General Swiss Watch Forum?
A comprehensive post, that would be used to point to, every time this comes up.
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#18
Yesterday, 10:43 PM
Join Date: Feb 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Time Bandit
Flyback,
First of all, I'm just a regular member like you, so I can't put together a sticky. But if I was
asked to, I'd be happy to do so.
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#19
Yesterday, 10:50 PM
Join Date: May 2009
Senior Member Real Name: Sam
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Quote:
It's not that complicated. I've manged intellectual property both nationally and
internationally for a number of companies since the mid '80s. The problem here, no
matter how many times something is stated, people only remember what they want to.
Another problem is that companies come out with marketing terms meant to confuse the
buyer like "Swiss Parts Movement". Everyone wants to be associated with the Swiss. It
happens in many industries too.
I wonder what would happen if Ford used the Japanese word for Ford on their vehicles?
Would you assume it was better quality because it was Japanese? Probably.
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#20
Yesterday, 10:56 PM
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rjaybass Real Name: Bob Stokes
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Their are new members joining daily I'm sure so I think some folks may not be so adept at
negotiating this site for a while. Much of what I do here is done on
my little iPhone screen on the fly. I'm very busy as most people are nowadays but even if
it's only a minute or two to check in here I do it because I just love the whole "Invicta
scene".
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#21
Yesterday, 10:59 PM
Join Date: Feb 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rjaybass
. . . Much of what I do here is done on
my little iPhone screen on the fly. . .
Thank the Lord for my 22" monitor!
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#22
Yesterday, 11:17 PM
Join Date: Feb 2008
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Quote:
I bet that looks funny when you hold it up to your head.
Do people stare at you?
Well . . . when you consider that I have a wireless keyboard with integrated mouse that
rests in my lap while reclining in my Lazy Boy with the monitor situated about 24 inches
in front and 12 inches to the right, so as not to interfere with my line of sight to my big
screen TV, and that no strangers ever wonder through my living room. The answer is, no
one ever stares at me regarding my internet access. However, when I'm at work or out in
public wearing my cool watches, people do tend to notice.
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#23
Today, 12:08 AM
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So Swiss and Swiss Made mean the same thing????
OK Ok...just kidding.
There only seems to be a handfull of companies that play it dead straight. Android and
NFW come to mind.
My advice is don't get caught up in the whole Swiss Made thing. The Swiss guidelines are
a joke...watch companies don't really have any reason to follow them...and most of all, if a
unscrutiable company wanted too...they could bold face lie and nothing would happen.
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#24
Today, 01:57 AM
unclefixit Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Universal City, Texas (about 10 miles N.E.
Senior of San Antonio)
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Quote:
Has anyone noticed that some Invicta models that previously used the ETA G10 and
were marked Swiss Made are now using the Ronda 5040d and are now labled simply
Swiss?
There was some discussion about this when the Amazon exlcusive models appeared,
particularly the Venom. It was hundreds less used the Ronda 5040d and was marked
Swiss.
cannot be labled Swiss Made.
I asked JSkelton about this (when the Amazon Venome was being discussed) and he said
he didn't know but he would ask Eyal.
I don't think the quality has suffered and the Ronda 5040d (even the Asian made version)
has nicer features than the ETA G10. I just want to know if my theory is correct.
D
Originally Posted by RenatoDiamond
Very nice, this is one of the swiss movement (not swiss made) RD's.
Sorry Gene that would be incorrect.
The words "Swiss" or "Swiss Made", usually at the 6 o'clock position on the dail,
indicate a watch built meeting the guidelines of the Swiss Federation of Horology.
The words "Swiss Movement" (in the same font) indicate only a "Swiss built
movement" that has been encased and assymbled into a completed watch, in a non-
Swiss factory.
The words "Swiss movt." (note abbreviation) indicate a non-Swiss assymbled

movement and of course watch.
That's about as simple as I can put it.

Quote:
Flyback,
Quote:
Originally Posted by 50mm&up
I got a Sea Spider from InvictaShark that has a 5040D Ronda asian parts movt. It says
swiss at 6:00. lol. Anybody's guess is as good as mine and it doesn't really matter to me.
You're getting a sweet RD for $90, whats the problem?
Rick I know the watch your talking about, the Sea Spider Sport.
It's the one that caused a big to-doo here because it was sold with an incorrectly
labeled dail ("Swiss" meaning Swiss Made).
This mistake (by the dail manufacturer) during manufacturing wasn't caught until
after the watches were finished and ready for sale.
That's why your watch is labeled as it is...doesn't mean your watch is poor in quaility
by any means.
What it does mean is that you saved a hell of alot of money and got a great watch.
Search is your friend...
Last edited by unclefixit; Today at 02:03 AM. Reason: more info added
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#25
Today, 02:18 AM
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bigjimzlll Real Name: Jim
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unclefixit
Quote:
I got a Sea Spider from InvictaShark that has a 5040D Ronda asian parts movt. It says
swiss at 6:00. lol. Anybody's guess is as good as mine and it doesn't really matter to me.
You're getting a sweet RD for $90, whats the problem?
It's the one that caused a big to-doo here because it was sold with an incorrectly
labeled dail ("Swiss" meaning Swiss Made).
This mistake (by the dail manufacturer) during manufacturing wasn't caught until
after the watches were finished and ready for sale.
That's why your watch is labeled as it is...doesn't mean your watch is poor in quaility
by any means.
What it does mean is that you saved a hell of alot of money and got a great watch.
That statement is my whole point. A watched marked Swiss, that is not Swiss Made. Sure
it maybe a mistake, but where is the policing? How much was the fine? Was Invicta
sanctioned? or did nothing happen...as in...who cares...keep making "Mistakes"
Today, 02:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigjimzlll

That statement is my whole point. A watched marked Swiss, that is not Swiss Made.
Sure it maybe a mistake, but where is the policing? How much was the fine? Was
Invicta sanctioned? or did nothing happen...as in...who cares...keep making
"Mistakes"
This one case was unique in that the watches had been produced, shipped to
the U.S., and sent to the customer (SNBC in this case) before anything was
noticed.
(This may speak to the lack of supervision during manufacture that seems to
haunt Invicta)
It was noticed by sneak peekers and early buyers, than braught to forum
members attention in many many threads.
There was no fine to be given as Invicta is not a member of the Swiss
Federation of Horology.
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#27
Today, 07:02 AM
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Akula's are Reserve Watches - unless Invicta is changing their definition of Reserve -
the watch has to be Swiss Made - meaning Swiss movment. Why they changed the
label to Swiss only - I have no clue but you have to assume it is Swiss Made.
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#28
Today, 07:07 AM
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Quote:

Steve, it seems that the search tool isn't going to be used in this respect, and as a
result, I will continue to post the fact of the matter surrounding Swiss and Swiss
Made until everyone has seen it . . .
May take you another 17,000 posts just on this topic though, Brad...LOL.
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#29
Today, 07:13 AM
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Gencoupe10 Real Name: Eddie B.
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Quote:

Swiss?
particularly the Venom. It was hundreds less used the Ronda 5040d and was
marked Swiss.
My theory is that these models have the Asian version of the Ronda 5040d and
therefore cannot be labled Swiss Made.
I asked JSkelton about this (when the Amazon Venome was being discussed) and he
said he didn't know but he would ask Eyal.
I don't think the quality has suffered and the Ronda 5040d (even the Asian made
version) has nicer features than the ETA G10. I just want to know if my theory is
correct.
D
I think Ronda has factories in Japan ..... but i dont want to get Jim and Mike mad if i
am wrong.......
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#30
Today, 07:14 AM
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Well the strange one for me was the Scuba's. The one on the bracelet say's swiss
movement on dial and case back. The ones on rubber which I bought say's swiss on
dial and caseback. Both are Rhonda 5040d. Jim said one time swiss means swiss
made. Me, dont really matter cause I buy the watches I like.
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#31
Today, 07:24 AM
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this is all very redundant. Hey! dont they make Swiss cheese in the USA???? licensing
infringement?????? lol, google "swiss watch law"..........it's even more diluted.........
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#32
Today, 07:28 AM
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Some of these models are the F series you may have seen on Amazon.com, with
swiss parts movements.
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#33
Today, 08:15 AM
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FloridaGary Real Name: Gary
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Quote:

Swiss?
particularly the Venom. It was hundreds less used the Ronda 5040d and was
marked Swiss.
My theory is that these models have the Asian version of the Ronda 5040d and
therefore cannot be labled Swiss Made.
I asked JSkelton about this (when the Amazon Venome was being discussed) and he
said he didn't know but he would ask Eyal.
I don't think the quality has suffered and the Ronda 5040d (even the Asian made
version) has nicer features than the ETA G10. I just want to know if my theory is
correct.
D
Great observation. I noticed the same thing. I think the first I noticed was on the SAS
just released in new color configurations. I expected the G-10, but noticed the Ronda
movement instead.
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#34
Today, 08:43 AM
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Not to repeat myself. But I will any way. I understand why Invicta is doing this to
keep prices down and I am sure they are good watches even though not Swiss made.
I wish they would just be upfront about where the watch and movement are made.
We are not stupid. Mike says yes..Jim says No..bla bla.
Sector is a swiss company any watch that I have from Sector with a non swiss
movement does not say swiss any where on the watch back or front.
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#35
Today, 08:46 AM
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thanks for the headz up.

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#36
Today, 10:08 AM
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So why the change to Swiss only on the dials of the Akula, Venom, S1 Touring,
etc....?
The change coincides with the change in movement - a movement that could be made
in Asia.
I realize their is a lot of secrecy in the watch industry and if it comes out that in fact
these newer versions are actually using the Asian made Ronda 5040d then Invicta's
credibility is going to take a massive hit?
Invicta reps are on the record as saying when Invicta uses Swiss they are meeting the
guidelines to use Swiss Made which means the movement must be Swiss Made.
(although there are recent examples of this not being the case - and it was a
"mistake" albeit one with no consequences.)
What we are talking about here is Reserve pieces.
All it is going to take is for someone to pop the case back and we will know for sure. I
don't own one of these models but I'm tempted to buy one just take a look.
D
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#37
Today, 10:18 AM
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I find this whole "SWISS" / "SWISS MADE" / "SWISS MOVEMENT" issues very
interesting! Geeks spend a lot of time covering this ground with NO SOLID answer
from Invicta. I'm convinced that some watches are made in Switzerland. I'm also
convinced that some watches are made in the Far East (with ??? parts). I believe
Invicta makes a marketing point of "SWISS" (in any fashion). Hey for me...as long as
the friggin hands dont fall off and it functions properly...I'm good! The styling of
Invicta timepieces is the draw for me, not the "SWISS" logo!
That's just my opinion...I could be wrong!

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#38
Today, 10:26 AM
Join Date: Apr 2008

Posts: 662
Time Bandit
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Quote:

Flyback,
Quote:

First of all, I'm just a regular member like you, so I can't put together a sticky. But
if I was asked to, I'd be happy to do so.
I'm asking, I'm sure if you made a comprehensive post,
It would become a Sticky, and member's would suggest just that.
Even as late as this morning, there is conflicting information regarding the word
"SWISS" on the dial of a watch.
Some folks believe that "SWISS" without the word "MADE" means that it is a Swiss
Made watch, but in reality it only has a Swiss Movement, as it pertains to the Swiss
Federation Guidelines, and the Members of the Swiss Federation abiding by said
Guidelines.
If there was a "goto, tellall, sticky" we could put this to rest, like Regis would say,
"This is the Final Answer" in relation to this topic.
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#39
Today, 10:36 AM
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Real Name: Matt
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Quote:

I'm asking, I'm sure if you made a comprehensive post,
It would become a Sticky, and member's would suggest just that.
Even as late as this morning, there is conflicting information regarding the word
"SWISS" on the dial of a watch.
Some folks believe that "SWISS" without the word "MADE" means that it is a Swiss
Made watch, but in reality it only has a Swiss Movement, as it pertains to the Swiss
Federation Guidelines, and the Members of the Swiss Federation abiding by said
Guidelines.
If there was a "goto, tellall, sticky" we could put this to rest, like Regis would say,
"This is the Final Answer" in relation to this topic.
The thing is, "Swiss" at the 6 position may or may not mean "Swiss Made" depending
upon if the company is part of the Swiss federation or not. Even if company X (like
Invicta) is not a member, it does mean out of hand that the designation does not hold
up as being Swiss Made. Frankly, Michael's post should also be a sticky as to Invicta's
company policy and should be controlling until such time as anyone can prove that
Invicta using "Swiss" at the 6 does NOT mean "Swiss Made." There are final answers
as to what the law says, but there is also "final answers" in terms of what the actual
reality is. It serves no purpose to use the regs and guidelines to denounce a company
that is not part of the Swiss federation without the corresponding proof that they are
bending those guidelines to their advantage.
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#40
Today, 10:38 AM
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If I want a Swiss Made watch from Invicta then I will buy only a watch that says
Swiss Made. Why would Invicta label a watch "Swiss" if it is Swiss Made especially
after the same dial (i.e. Russian Diver, SAS and SAIII, etc.) for a long period already
was labeled "Swiss Made". To me, it means that Invicta likely changed the piece from
Swiss Made to only some other manufacturing standard/parts of origin/assembly, etc.
No other logical explanation. Since Invicta is not a part of the Swiss Federation (as
posted by others whom I respect tremendously) then dont assume its Swiss Made
just because it says Swiss. Again, why would Invicta go through the trouble of
chaning the dials from Swiss Made to Swiss (on the same models) if ithe model
remained Swiss Made??? Answer - they would not unless it was no longer Swiss
Made.
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#41
Today, 10:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by watchdude1

The thing is, "Swiss" at the 6 position may or may not mean "Swiss Made"
depending upon if the company is part of the Swiss federation or not. Even if
company X (like Invicta) is not a member, it does mean out of hand that the
designation does not hold up as being Swiss Made.
That was my entire point.
SWISS alone, doesn't mean anything.
No matter what company makes it.
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#42
Today, 10:40 AM
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I think the real answer, the 5040 is an upgrade, regardless of country of origin.
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#43
Today, 10:45 AM
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Quote:

That was my entire point.
SWISS alone, doesn't mean anything.
No matter what company makes it.
No, I got where you are coming from. Well, it does mean something definitively if you
a member of the Swiss federation as the only way members of the federation may
use this is if, in fact, the piece is Swiss made. However when Michael states that
"Swiss" at the 6 position means the same thing as Swiss Made and that Invicta is
following those guidelines set forth by the Swiss federation, I just wish people would
either say they don't believe him or provide evidence he is not being truthful...
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#44
Today, 10:52 AM
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Quote:

I just wish people would either say they don't believe him or provide evidence he is
not being truthful...
I don't believe it.
See Heavy Jumbo's post above
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#45
Today, 02:21 PM
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Quote:

....snip.... I just wish people would either say they don't believe him or provide
evidence he is not being truthful...
I don't beleive it either. I give Mike the benefit of the doubt because he's probably
going on what he has been told.
I 2nd the - See Heavy Jumbo's post above
No one has definitive proof yet, but someone will eventually pop the back on one of
these models and we will.
D
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#46
Today, 02:37 PM
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Quote:

No one has definitive proof yet, but someone will eventually pop the back on one of
these models and we will.
D
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#47
Today, 02:38 PM
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Think about this, We all know this always comes up and we all know that Mike and
Jim read these. and yet two of my Russian divers have swiss made and the two with
the ISA 8176 have only Swiss on them. This is not because on this extremely large
dial that there was not room to put the words swiss made on it. You know they would
put it on there if it were truely swiss made since this would leave no doubt as to it
being swiss made. Just go with your instincts.
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#48
Today, 02:42 PM
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Flyback
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Quote:

I've seen these photos before, and although I don't remember where, it's also be
debunked as not being real. Maybe Mehdi could take a look and give his opinion.
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#49
Today, 02:59 PM
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Quote:

I've seen these photos before, and although I don't remember where, it's also be
debunked as not being real. Maybe Mehdi could take a look and give his opinion.
The Photographer of those pictures is a member here on WG.net.
I didn't wan't to name him publicly.
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#50
Today, 03:04 PM
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Flyback
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Quote:
Maybe it was even here then that I saw the discussion. Something about that
movement and how it would or wouldn't fit in that case. That aside, it's such a
nothing watch in comparison to what's being discussed, but one of the current reserve
line watches showing the movement was Asian made would be an entirely different
matter.
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Quote:

The Photographer of those pictures is a
member here on WG.net.
That's a start. What we need is someone to
take photos just like that of the Venom,
Akula, SAN III, etc.. that are marked simply
Swiss.
D
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#52
Today, 03:20 PM
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bat Location: Northeast Pennsylvania
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Thanks Jay that should make it simple.
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#53
Today, 03:25 PM
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Watchbear Real Name: Uncle Bob
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Quote:

No... thees pictures were taken for another forum and brought over here
I Believe thees were proven to be fake, another movement was installed in the watch
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#54
Today, 03:40 PM
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want proof that Swiss is not swiss, here it is this movt is in my russian diver with the
distressed strap and the dial and caseback says swiss but yet the movement says the
following "ISA cal 8176/2050 3 jewels CHINA Invicta watch group. Also say on it far
east assy, the battery says swiss made.
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#55
Today, 03:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Watchbear

No... thees pictures were taken for another forum and brought over here
True, they were posted on another forum, I didn't say that they weren't.
I found them by Google'ing.
I did say that the auther of the photo's was a Member here too though, not that the
author posted those here.
Sorry that I was unclear about that.
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#56
Today, 03:45 PM
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Flyback
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Quote:
Originally Posted by icewolf64

want proof that Swiss is not swiss, here it is this movt is in my russian diver with
the distressed strap and the dial and caseback says swiss but yet the movement
says the following "ISA cal 8176/2050 3 jewels CHINA Invicta watch group. Also say
on it far east assy, the battery says swiss made.
Thanks Dave! The first thing someone questioning your picture is going to say is that
you can't tell what watch that movement came from. As a preventative measure, can
you post a few more pictures showing more of the watch?
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#57
Today, 03:46 PM
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this is from model number 5857 Rosegold, brown distress strap

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#58
Today, 03:58 PM
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Quote:

Thank the Lord for my 22" monitor!
Is it a Swiss Monitor or a Swiss Made monitor?
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#59
Today, 04:01 PM
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Brad there will still be disbelievers but here goes, these are from my own personal
watch I just opened up for you watchgeeks.
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#60
Today, 04:03 PM
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So really what does the Word "Swiss" really mean
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#61
Today, 04:13 PM
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Looks like for different companies Swiss means very different things.
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#62
Today, 04:20 PM
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icewolf64, is the movement marked with the country of origin? I can't see anything
from the distance of the pics.
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#63
Today, 04:21 PM
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Quote:

Dangerously deceptive in my book. I am sure Invicta has all the answers, but I am
dissapointed.
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#64
Today, 04:21 PM
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Quote:

Yes is says CHINA
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#65
Today, 04:22 PM
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Quote:

look at post #55
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#66
Today, 04:22 PM
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Hey! Is this one of those swiss/ swiss mvmt/ swiss parts mvmt/ swiss made threads?
Again? Been here, done this. Think I'd rather watch Phineas & Ferb...
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#67
Today, 04:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gman66

Hey! Is this one of those swiss/ swiss mvmt/ swiss parts mvmt/ swiss made
threads? Again? Been here, done this. Think I'd rather watch Phineas & Ferb...
'watch' whatever you want (sorry could not help myself).
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#68
Today, 04:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heavyjumbo

'watch' whatever you want (sorry could not help myself).
I get it...
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#69
Today, 04:28 PM
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MREXE
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Good grief peeps! Ive been saying this for years, EVERYTHING now is made in China.
That doesnt make your watches less a watch, or less well made, all this "swiss" hype
is exactly that.........ASSEMBLED IN SWISSLAND, that's it.........there are some stand
up companies that tell you that like Renato.........altho most of my watches are
Invicta, I do not pretend not to know the truth. I believe that the Swiss government is
now trying to change the law from 51% of the value to 80%......not sure how that will
work........Jim has been as honest as he can be by stating "only about 4-5 watch
companies make TOTALLY Swiss made watches, and Invicta is not one of them".
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#70
Today, 04:29 PM
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I don't know if this is clearer

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#71
Today, 04:30 PM
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MREXE
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(i hear the sound of watch geeks through out the land opening the backs of their
SANIII's) "click your heels three times, and say, there's no place like home, Dorothy"
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#72
Today, 04:32 PM
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Maybe Invicta's conscience is clear because there is a swiss made battery in the
watch.
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#73
Today, 04:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ukrany1

Is it a Swiss Monitor or a Swiss Made monitor?
Asian all the way . . .
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#74
Today, 04:34 PM
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Have we been buying stuff that's made in China? That's interesting...again...ad

infinitum...
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#75
Today, 04:36 PM
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Quote:

I don't know if this is clearer
Oh wow. Well that is certainly interesting.
Today, 04:37 PM
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Flyback
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Quote:

Your series of pictures are the first documented proof that I've seen from a known
source of an Asian movement in an Invicta watch with only "Swiss" on the dial.
Perhaps Invicata should clarify their position given what you've shown us. At the very
least, provide an explanation for what you found in your RD.
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#77
Today, 04:38 PM
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Quote:

Your series of pictures are the first documented proof of an Asian movement in an
Invicta watch with only "Swiss" on the dial. Perhaps Invicata should clarify their
position given what you've shown us.
I think an explaination is due.

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#78
Today, 04:40 PM
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Jamesmbb Location: New Orleans, LA
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I hope invicta is using movementments or watches made in china
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#79
Today, 04:41 PM
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MREXE
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I feel a price drop coming...............YIPPPPPPPPPPPPEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE EEEE cat's

outa da bag dudes..............
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#80
Today, 04:42 PM
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Hard to spin this one.

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#81
Today, 04:48 PM
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I like the part were it say far east assy, I guess this voids my warranty, opp's
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#82
Today, 04:50 PM
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TheMatrix
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MREXE

I feel a price drop coming...............YIPPPPPPPPPPPPEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE EEEE cat's
outa da bag dudes..............
I hear ya.
What this really translates to is lower pricing for consumers. Gotta luv lower prices.
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#83
Today, 04:51 PM
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Maybe the battery meets their standard of SWISS.

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#84
Today, 04:57 PM
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I am so glad to see this thread going where it has gone.

Swiss does not mean Swiss Made! And in fact it might mean nothing... and even
border on false representation of the product.
Does it break any laws? Probably not. So they'll keep saying it.
Eric.
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#85
Today, 05:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heavyjumbo

Maybe Invicta's conscience is clear because there is a swiss made battery in the
watch.
the funny thing is that my excursion which is marked swiss made does in fact have a
swiss made 8173 movt in it with a USA made Energizer battery.
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#86
Today, 05:17 PM
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Quote:

Thank you for proving my doubts all along! I know the Swiss Federation regulations,
and know "Swiss" and "Swiss Made" are the same for members, but not necessarily
the same for non-members like Invicta. The very few times I've seen a real "Swiss
Made" watch that just had "Swiss" on the dial also had its place of manufacture, e.g.
Geneve.
I brought up this issue in a thread I started a few months ago about Invicta Amazon
Exclusives (F Series) marked "Swiss" on the dial not "Swiss Made," and questioned
this issue at that time.
I bought an Invicta Amazon Exclusive SAS GMT on a P/U Strap that was marked
"Swiss" only. Later, Shop was selling the SAS GMT on a P/U Strap, the difference
being it was marked "Swiss Made" on those dials. Unfortunately, Invicta watches sold
by Amazon directly do not give you the name/number of the movement.
Last edited by RoyalOak; Today at 05:28 PM. Reason: typo
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#87
Today, 05:20 PM
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MREXE
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Geez, where are the Ops and owners debunking all of this horseradish? .........in a
frantic meeting, I assume.
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#88
Today, 05:22 PM
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timeman Real Name: Jerry
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Quote:
Your series of pictures are the first documented proof that I've seen from a known
source of an Asian movement in an Invicta watch with only "Swiss" on the dial.
Perhaps Invicata should clarify their position given what you've shown us. At the
very least, provide an explanation for what you found in your RD.
Was watching an Invicta show today and it was reported by the Invicta representative
that because the question of "Swiss Made" and "Swiss" on the dial came up on e-
mails and the Internet, he repeated the definition of what a Swiss made Invicta is.
I'm paraphrasing what was said, when Invicta has "Swiss Made" or "Swiss" on the dial
it's a Swiss made watch because they follow the Swiss Federation guidelines for a
Swiss made watch.
Now we have proof that Invicta is putting Chinese made movements in watches
reported to be "Swiss Made." I do believe the Invicta representative was only stating
what was told to him by Invicta.
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#89
Today, 05:28 PM
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2010gt Posts: 1,131
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Only buy Invictas with the 7750 auto if you are that fixated on the SWISS movement
- you can see all the correct markings on the movement right thru the exhibition
caseback. Problem solved.
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#90
Today, 05:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2010gt

Only buy Invictas with the 7750 auto if you are that fixated on the SWISS
movement - you can see all the correct markings on the movement right thru the
exhibition caseback. Problem solved.
And of course the Selita SW200 falls into that same category.
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#91
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MREXE
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I have breathed a sigh of relief, that, finally, the watchgeek world has been informed
as to what they are buying. From now on, if my watch is running correctly after 30
days, I will take the back off and take some pics...........just to keep the truth out
there. Dang, I got about 50 pics to take this week alone..........THE TRUTH WILL SET
YOU FREE.
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#92
Today, 05:40 PM
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By putting a Chinese movement in a watch that has the word "Swiss" on the dial, not
only violates their claim that they follow the Swiss Federations guidelines, but also
violates the U.S. Custom regulations on the origin of the movement. According to U.S.
Custom regulations the word "China" instead of "Swiss" should be on the dial to
designate the country in which the movement was made.
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#93
Today, 05:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2010gt

Only buy Invictas with the 7750 auto if you are that fixated on the SWISS movement - you can see all the
correct markings on the movement right thru the exhibition caseback. Problem solved.
They also make a Chinese version of the 7750. Honestly.
Here is a photo of one.

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#94
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wilco Posts: 379
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That can be circumvented and is on a regular basis by both ETA and others. When
discussing country of origin, remember, that these ETA and Ronda quartz pieces
actually have the modules which are produced in Switzerland.
After the modules are produced in Switzerland; they are then shipped to offshore
Asian assembly houses and the modules and other swiss parts are then assembled.
Country of origin? Well, they started in Switzerland and the majority of parts by value
in the movement are of swiss origin and I imagine they could squeak by with some
type of final inspection in Switzerland when they receive them back fully constructed
from Asia. The actual modules are ASSEMBLED/Made in Switzerland. Just the
component of the watch are assembled in Asia. Sort of a gray area, I believe.
So, not so sure an Asian assembled Swiss Origin movement is not considered in a
Swiss timepiece.
Just a theory, but I have heard it a few times.
Quote:

Sorry, that wouldn't be allowed under U.S. Customs country of origin labeling
regulations. If you read the following excerpts from the regs. you will note that the
country of origin of the movement must should appear on the dial or case back. A
company subject to U.S. Customs regs, could not put Swiss on the dial when in fact
the movement was made in Asia.
U.S. Customs Regulations, 19 CFR Part 177
Chapter 91, Additional U.S. Note 4, Harmonized Tariff Schedule of the United
States, sets forth special marking requirements for watches and clocks:
(a) Watch movements shall be marked on one or more of the bridges or top plates
to show:
(i) the name of the country of manufacture,
(ii) the name of the manufacturer or purchaser, and
(iii) in words, the number of jewels, if any, serving a mechanical
purpose as frictional bearings.
(c) Watch cases shall be marked on the inside or outside of the back to show:
(i) the name of the country of manufacture, and
(ii) the name of the manufacturer or purchaser.
The above movements and cases must be conspicuously and indelibly marked by
cutting, die-sinking, engraving, stamping (including by means of indelible ink), or
mold-marking. Movements with opto-electronic display only and cases designed for
use therewith, whether entered as separate articles or as components of assembled
watches or clocks, are excepted from these special marking requirements.
Watches and clocks are also subject to the normal country of origin marking
requirements of 19 U.S.C. 1304, and under these requirements, the movement’s
country of origin should appear conspicuously and legibly on the dial face or on the
outside of the back. In addition, watchbands should be marked with the country of
manufacture of the band, unless the watchband is attached in the country where the
watch was produced.
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#95
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Argabright
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I just have one question... Does this SURPRISE anyone? I, for one, have known this
for a very long time.
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#96
Today, 05:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timeman

Of course, but assuming they don't stoop to marking them as ETA 7750 and SWISS
on several visible places on the movements - I am giving them the benefit of the
doubt in this case only.
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#97
Today, 05:53 PM
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Flyback
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Quote:

I have breathed a sigh of relief, that, finally, the watchgeek world has been
informed as to what they are buying. From now on, if my watch is running correctly
after 30 days, I will take the back off and take some pics...........just to keep the
truth out there. Dang, I got about 50 pics to take this week alone..........THE TRUTH
WILL SET YOU FREE.
My guess/hope would be that those labeled Swiss Made will indeed have Swiss Made
movements. As to those labeled Swiss, time will tell, but one would also hope there is
some reason U.S. Customs regulations haven't been followed if that proves to be the
case.
• Under 19 U.S.C.1304, as interpreted by Customs, the country of origin of the

movement of the watch or clock determines the country of origin of the watch or
clock. Although the addition of the hands, dial, or case adds definition to the
timepiece, they do not substantially change the character or use of the watch or clock
movement, which is the essence of the watch or clock. Accordingly, a watch with one
country of origin for the movement, another for the case, and another for the battery,
is
considered, for purposes of 19 USC 1304, to be a product of the country in which the
movement was produced. The movement's country of origin should appear
conspicuously and legibly on the dial face or on the outside of the back of the watch.
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#98
Today, 05:55 PM
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Flyback
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Quote:

True enough, but it's not made by ETA and the suggestion was that the exhibition
case back on Invicta's with the V7750 would reveal what's inside.
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#99
Today, 05:57 PM
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and the debate goes on and on and on and.............it doesn't take long to figure out
that anything you buy may or may not be exactly what you think it is in most cases -
at some point, have a little faith, brothers!!!!!
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#100
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Quote:

True enough, but it's not made by ETA and the suggestion was that the exhibition
case back on Invicta's with the V7750 would reveal what's inside.
The Chinese version is made by Apogaum.

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icewolf64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wilco

That can be circumvented and is on a regular basis by both ETA and others. When
discussing country of origin, remember, that these ETA and Ronda quartz pieces
actually have the modules which are produced in Switzerland.
After the modules are produced in Switzerland; they are then shipped to offshore
Asian assembly houses and the modules and other swiss parts are then assembled.
Country of origin? Well, they started in Switzerland and the majority of parts by
value in the movement are of swiss origin and I imagine they could squeak by with
some type of final inspection in Switzerland when they receive them back fully
constructed from Asia. The actual modules are ASSEMBLED/Made in Switzerland.
Just the component of the watch are assembled in Asia. Sort of a gray area, I
believe.
So, not so sure an Asian assembled Swiss Origin movement is not considered in a
Swiss timepiece.
Just a theory, but I have heard it a few times.

This would be considered a swiss parts movement watch.
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#102
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bigjimzlll
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Oh my,
I have the exact same Russian diver with the distressed band. I am wearing it today
and was bragging it is Swiss Made....As P.T. Barnum said, There's a sucker born every
minute, I just really believed I was old enuff and "experienced" that it didn't pertain
to me.
I am physically ill over this.
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#103
Today, 06:13 PM
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MREXE
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again, where is Invicta on this thread? what? did you pee yer pants? we need some
answers here, dont ya think?
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#104
Today, 06:15 PM
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icewolf64
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Quote:

Oh my,
I have the exact same Russian diver with the distressed band. I am wearing it today
and was bragging it is Swiss Made....As P.T. Barnum said, There's a sucker born
every minute, I just really believed I was old enuff and "experienced" that it didn't
pertain to me.
I am physically ill over this.
yeah I thought the same thing, and then I saw the comments that ever one was
making about oh not this discussion again and then it dawned on me that Invicta
knows about this discussion too, So I thought to myself why would they not put the
words swiss made on a Russian diver that has the largest dial face. It is obviously not
because of lack of room.
So curiousity got the best of me.
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#105
Today, 06:16 PM
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Flyback
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Quote:

It's a holiday. It's not really fair to assume this is being ignored. It could very well be
that it hasn't been seen as of yet.
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#106
Today, 06:19 PM
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Time Bandit
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Quote:

May I ask, did you purchase that watch in the picture on ShopNBC?
If so, do you have a J#
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#107
Today, 06:24 PM
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MREXE
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flyback, Please dont patronize me. this is the internet..........yer dog would tell you
this is a hot topic on your OWN web forum............if shop and Invicta want to repair
this "long coming" truth.....they should jump on it now, and put the fire out....
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#108
Today, 06:27 PM
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icewolf64
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Quote:

no I got this one from WOW but I do have another watch from shopnbc I will get back
with pictures.
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#109
Today, 06:28 PM
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Quote:

Here are some from ShopNBC. Don't know if this is the watch in question.
Invicta Men's Russian Diver Swiss Quartz GMT Genuine Leather Strap Watch -
J177371
http://www.shopnbc.com/Invicta_Men_s...-_-M-_-J177371
Invicta Men's Russian Diver Swiss Quartz GMT Distressed Leather Strap Watch -
J177373
http://www.shopnbc.com/Invicta_Men_s...aspx?storeid=1
Invicta Men's Russian Diver Swiss Quartz GMT Sunray Dial Leather Strap Watch -
J177372
http://www.vvtv.com/Invicta_Men_s_Ru...V2-_-ONAIR-_-9
In the video this one is said to be Swiss Made. I don't know if the above watches sold
on ShopNBC are the same as the one photographed in this thread.
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#110
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icewolf64
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this is the Quinataur I bought a year ago approximately from Shopnbc J #176920 this
one at least has a gilt movement in it with 9 jewels instead of three however is still
CHINA and FAR EAST ASSY
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#111
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Flyback
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The plot thickens . . .

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#112
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MREXE
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OK, Flyback, thot thar fer a sec you were from "the darkside of the planet"..........I
apologize for a previous post.
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#113
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reliefcp
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Looks like we may have found out where there factories are.
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#114
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Quote:

this is the Quinataur I bought a year ago approximately from Shopnbc J #176920
this one at least has a gilt movement in it with 9 jewels instead of three however is
still CHINA and FAR EAST ASSY
Invicta Men's Russian Diver Quinotaur Swiss Quartz GMT Rubber Strap Watch -
J176920
http://www.shopnbc.com/PRODUCT/?trac...h-_-family-_-N
In the video it's stated the watch is "All Swiss."

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#115
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Flyback
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Quote:

OK, Flyback, thot thar fer a sec you were from "the darkside of the planet"..........I
apologize for a previous post.
Nope . . . me and Superman, truth, justice and the American way!
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#116
Today, 06:51 PM
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icewolf64
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Does this void my warranty, oh dang

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#117
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samuelrz
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Quote:

No.
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#118
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reliefcp
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Quote:

Does this void my warranty, oh dang
Do you have any (SWISS) autos?
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#119
Today, 06:58 PM
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icewolf64
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Quote:

Invicta Men's Russian Diver Quinotaur Swiss Quartz GMT Rubber Strap Watch -
J176920
http://www.shopnbc.com/PRODUCT/?trac...h-_-family-_-N
In the video it's stated the watch is "All Swiss."
you are correct, Eyal himself said the words " all Swiss"
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#120
Today, 06:59 PM
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Taxg8r00 Posts: 34
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I think it is pretty clear, unless a watch says "Swiss Made" on it is is not made in
Switzerland. We can get into all sorts of sematics about the Swiss law on what makes
a watch "Swiss Made" but that does not change the fact that the watch in question did
not say "Swiss Made". I think it has been said many times before by other posters if a
watch manufacturer can legally put "Swiss Made" on a watch they surely would and
would be idiots not to.
For the record I am Swiss citizen and spend and have spent a considerable period of
time in Switzerland. My mom is from Biel/Bienne where lots of watch movements are
made. I have Rolexes and still have no problem wearing my Rento. I even bought my
dad a Swiss Legend Tungsten Chrono as a Father's Day gift. I think the issue with the
watch in question goes more to false advertising as it seems like Invict is trying to
pass something off as something it is not by putting "Swiss" on the dial. If the dial
had said "Swiss Movt" would anyone be questioning this?
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#121
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icewolf64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reliefcp

Do you have any (SWISS) autos?
Sorry don't have any swiss auto's
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#122
Today, 06:59 PM
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erictrumpet
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Anyone with a Swiss Made RD they are willing to open?

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#123
Today, 07:02 PM
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icewolf64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erictrumpet

Anyone with a Swiss Made RD they are willing to open?
I opened my offshore RD which does have a swiss movement and it states on the dial
swiss made.
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#124
Today, 07:14 PM
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gman66
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1. There have been countless threads on the whole Swiss/ not Swiss thing, with no
resolution.
2. I made light of it, as it was going nowhere IMO
3. Proof of China parts in Swiss labeled watches has been posted
4. I apologize to anyone I may have offended with my sarcasm
5. And now we can see things being touted as something other than what they really
are, and that is disturbing.
I'll be interested in what we may hear after the holiday is over. This could be pretty
damn big...
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#125
Today, 07:17 PM
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erictrumpet
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Quote:

I opened my offshore RD which does have a swiss movement and it states on the
dial swiss made.
To be expected. No surprise. Also no surprise (to me) that the watches labeled
"Swiss" are indeed not.
Eric.
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Quote:

Flyback,
You asked this yesterday and what do you think now? I think it should.
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#127
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Yep...this subject has been beat to death....

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#128
Today, 07:23 PM
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So Invicta has been putting Chinese Swiss parts movements in watches they claim to
be "Swiss Made." What excuse or explanation can they make? I'm waiting to hear
how they explain this. When I say Invicta I mean Eyal. He is the CEO of the company
and should know how his watches are being manufactured, and take responsibility for
his company's actions.
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#129
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watchluv
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tkromer

I think the real answer, the 5040 is an upgrade, regardless of country of origin.
I'll take a G-10 Swiss Made movement any day over a 5040 Swiss parts movement.
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#130
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MREXE
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to all the "BEAT TO DEATH" comments, apparently not, I personnally, have been
waiting paitently for this, I have been berated, insulted, and demonized for "implying"
that the brand was dishonest...........JUST STAND UP, INVICTA, i personally have
spent over 12k on Invicta wathes........and knew all along what I was buying. that
said, I also knew what a true Swiss watch cost. I cant afford 20-200k watch. so, I buy
"shop" watches. nuf said
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#131
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gman66
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Quote:

to all the "BEAT TO DEATH" comments, apparently not, I personnally, have been
waiting paitently for this, I have been berated, insulted, and demonized for
"implying" that the brand was dishonest...........JUST STAND UP, INVICTA, i
personally have spent over 12k on Invicta wathes........and knew all along what I
was buying. that said, I also knew what a true Swiss watch cost. I cant afford 20-
200k watch. so, I buy "shop" watches. nuf said
I recently started a thread on what would be the story of the year for Invicta. It's
dormant now, but we may have a winner with how this gets handled...
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#132
Today, 07:57 PM
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Swiss, Swiss Made, Swiss Components, Swiss Parts, Swiss Cheese, who cares!
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#133
Today, 07:59 PM
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So to sum this up, it is safe to assume that any Invicta with Swiss or Swiss Movement
on the dial has a Swiss Parts Movement (these are code words for Asian movements).
And if it says Swiss Made then it has a Swiss Movement inside. That makes sence
because if you have a Swiss Movement and it was assembled in Switzerland you
would be proud to put Swiss Made on the dial and maybe the case back.
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#134
Today, 08:01 PM
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Argabright
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RDG

Obviously some people care or else misleading marketing (to be most charitable)
wouldn't be required...
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#135
Today, 08:03 PM
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samuelrz
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Swiss Made means 51% per se. Why aren't you guys complaining about the other
49%???
Stop buying Invicta and let this thread die please.
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#136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RDG

You know, I really don't care about the movement so much on a less than 200 buck
watch.
I do care however when I get treated like a rube. The owner of the company mislead
me...his employees mislead me and I feel like an idiot for trusting them.
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#137
Today, 08:20 PM
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Time Bandit wrote:

"In my example, It's not a "Swiss Parts Movement" built in China.
It is actually a Zero Jewel Chinese Movement, not a "Swiss Parts Movement" built in
China.
This is a different scenario than Icewolf's scenario, where his says Swiss and it's built
in China."
I see what your saying. That adds on to list of using Asian movements and labeling
them as Swiss or Swiss Movements on the dials.
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#138
Today, 08:23 PM
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reliefcp
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Quote:

You know, I really don't care about the movement so much on a less than 200 buck
watch.
I do care however when I get treated like a rube. The owner of the company
mislead me...his employees mislead me and I feel like an idiot for trusting them.
I dont care about the movement either they make quality watches for the most part
but what I cant get out of my brain is Eyal hammering home these are TOTALLY
SWISS MADE watches when in fact its not true at all.
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#139
Today, 09:37 PM
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chitown Location: Tampa Florida
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unclefixit

Originally Posted by RenatoDiamond
Very nice, this is one of the swiss movement (not swiss made) RD's.
Sorry Gene that would be incorrect.
The words "Swiss" or "Swiss Made", usually at the 6 o'clock position on the
dail, indicate a watch built meeting the guidelines of the Swiss Federation
of Horology.
The words "Swiss Movement" (in the same font) indicate only a "Swiss
built movement" that has been encased and assymbled into a completed
watch, in a non-Swiss factory.
The words "Swiss movt." (note abbreviation) indicate a non-Swiss

assymbled movement and of course watch.
That's about as simple as I can put it.
Quote:
I got a Sea Spider from InvictaShark that has a 5040D Ronda asian parts movt. It
says swiss at 6:00. lol. Anybody's guess is as good as mine and it doesn't really
matter to me. You're getting a sweet RD for $90, whats the problem?
It's the one that caused a big to-doo here because it was sold with an
incorrectly labeled dail ("Swiss" meaning Swiss Made).
This mistake (by the dail manufacturer) during manufacturing wasn't
caught until after the watches were finished and ready for sale.
That's why your watch is labeled as it is...doesn't mean your watch is poor
in quaility by any means.
What it does mean is that you saved a hell of alot of money and got a great
watch.
Search is your friend...
Here is another quote, their must be a thousand different variations on this subject
A Swiss watch movement
As we have seen, to be Swiss, a watch must use a Swiss movement. According to

Section 2 OSM, a movement is considered to be Swiss if:
• it has been assembled in Switzerland;

• it has been inspected by the manufacturer in Switzerland; and
• the components of Swiss manufacture account for at least 50 percent of the
total value, without taking into account the cost of assembly.
If the movement fulfills these conditions, but the watch is not assembled in
Switzerland, the "Swiss" indication may be affixed to one of the components of the
movement. On the outside of the watch, may then only appear the "mouvement
suisse" or "Swiss movement" indication. Section 3 § 3 OSM requires that the word
"movement" appear in full, and be written in the same type-face, of identical size and
colour, as the word "Swiss".
-----------Right -----------------------Wrong
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#140
Today, 09:50 PM
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Flyback
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chitown

Here is another quote, their must be a thousand different variations on this subject
A Swiss watch movement
As we have seen, to be Swiss, a watch must use a Swiss movement. According to

Section 2 OSM, a movement is considered to be Swiss if:
• it has been assembled in Switzerland;

• it has been inspected by the manufacturer in Switzerland; and
• the components of Swiss manufacture account for at least 50 percent of the
total value, without taking into account the cost of assembly.
If the movement fulfills these conditions, but the watch is not assembled in
Switzerland, the "Swiss" indication may be affixed to one of the components of the
movement. On the outside of the watch, may then only appear the "mouvement
suisse" or "Swiss movement" indication. Section 3 § 3 OSM requires that the word
"movement" appear in full, and be written in the same type-face, of identical size
and colour, as the word "Swiss".
-----------Right -----------------------Wrong
For the umpteenth time:
If a company is not a member of the Swiss Federation, they DO NOT

have to comply with any of this unless there is some other controlling
factor that forces them to.
In the United States:
1. Swiss Made is a registered trademark of the the Swiss Federation.

Anyone who places Swiss Made on a dial of a watch sold in the U.S.
must follow the Federation requirements due to their trademark.
2. To put Swiss on the dial in the U.S. has nothing to do with the
federation, you have to follow U.S. Customs country or origin labeling
requirements, that specify that the country of origin is where the
movement is made, the watch can be assembled anywhere and so long
at it's a Swiss movement, the dial can say Swiss.
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Join Date: Aug 2009

Location: U.S.A.
Posts: 964
Real Name: Bo
Justin Time
Senior Member
Veteran Geek
Eye Opening and Jaw Dropping thread.
As for me, I still prefer the words
"SWISS MADE" -
Nevertheless... that 'Apogaum" with the Chinese 7750 looks like a pretty cool watch.
Also, the Marine Militare watches always get raves from WG's -
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New Movement Invictas Marked Swiss When in Fact Chinese

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#1

This includes some Reserve models as well - Akula for example.

3 Lastest Threads by DIAMANTE

U.S. Customs Regulations, 19 CFR Part 177

We need a Swiss Forum.

So Swiss and Swiss Made mean the same thing????

This includes some Reserve models as well - Akula for example.

The words "Swiss movt." (note abbreviation) indicate a non-Swiss assymbled

That's about as simple as I can put it.

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Originally Posted by bigjimzlll

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Originally Posted by Flyback

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Originally Posted by DIAMANTE

This includes some Reserve models as well - Akula for example.

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Originally Posted by DIAMANTE

This includes some Reserve models as well - Akula for example.

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