WE PUBLISH THE FULL TEXT OF

THE Playboy interview with Sinn Fein leaders,

Gerry Adams and Danny Morrison, and with
the unnamed IRA spokesperson so that those
who would have wished to have read what they
said are given the opportunity to do so in spite
of the ban on the distribution of Playboy in the
Republie of Ireland and the ban on the pulieation
of interviews with the IRA in N orthern Ireland
and Britain.
We do so with sorne reluetanee for, in our
view, the interviewer was far too facilitatory and
partisano But we feel it worthwhile giving our
readers the opportunity to read the pieee
nonetheless.
IN THIS ISSU~E ALSO PUBLISH
THE second part of ttre1fmi'-yof the person dying
of Aids, the first part of which was published
in the February issue. this second article deals
in explicit terms with this man's early sexual
awakenings and initial sexual experienees. We
are concious that sorne of our readers may find
the explicitness of sorne of this material offensive
John Healy's Political Column 6.
but we believe that it provides an unusual insight.
Motoring by George Cambell 8. into the lifestyles of many people in the homo-
sexual community and into why the aids problem
Media by Eamon McCann 12. has become so prevalent.
Aids Diary 14.
THE STORY OF ARKLE AND OF THE
-Gemma Hussey interview 22. 1964 CHEL TENHAM Gold Cup raee is part
of racing history. David Walsh reealls that race
Playboy interview 30.
and that day, having spoken to several of those
intimately involved.

WE COMMENCE TO PUBLISH IN
THIS ISSUE of MagilI a death list of all those
kilIed in the violenee of Northern Ireland. We
do this as a reaction against the numbed reaetion
of most people nowadays to these kilIings,
regarding them as merely additions to the hor-
rifle statisties of the eonfliet there.

Arkle and MilI House .44.

Rugby by John Reason 51.
Magill Briefing 55.
Wigmore 60.

Subscriptions advertisement: page 10 and 11.

 Death List 1989
HE KILLING HAS CONTI-
T nued without respite in North-
ern Ireland in 1989, with 14
deaths from violence during the
months of January and February. Of
these, five were former or serving mem-
bers of the security forces, while six were
victims of the new upsurge in loyalist
activity. One member of the IRA also
died while aman accused ofbeing a Brit-
ish agent was shot dead.
15 JANUARY: Former RUC reservist
Harry Keys (23) from Ballycassidy, Co
Fermanagh, was killed outside his girl-
friend's home in Ballintra, Co Donegal.
Following the shooting the IRA
announced the disbandment of one of
its units in FermanaghjDonegal,
although there is evidence since then that
at least sorne ofthose understood to have .
been involved in this unit have remained
active in the IRA. Three years previously
the former reserve constable had sur-
vived a bomb attack on Armagh RUC
station. He had been warned of the
danger of crossing the Border to visit his
nineteen-year-old girlfriend by his for-
mer colleagues in the RUC. It was
reported that when the IRA unit shot
Harry Keys, they cheered when the
operation was completed.
18 JANUARY: Ian Catney (27) a Cath-
olic from Smithfield in West Belfast was
shot dead in the Smithfield market in
Belfast by the UVF, who claimed that
he was a member of the INLA, a claim
disputed by the IRSP, the political arm '
of the INLA, in the city. This was the
first of a series of sectarian attacks by.
recently rearmed loyalist organisations
across the North.
25 JANUARY: David Dornan (26) a
Protestant from Ballynahinch, Co
Dowii, was shot dead in Lisburn by
loyalists apparently in a case ofmistaken
identity. His killers, according to the
RUC, thought he was a Catholic. A Free
Presbyterian, he was shot at 8.30am by.
two men as he sat in his mechanical dig-
ger at a site on Knockmore Road just
outside Lisburn.
28 JANUARY: Constable Stephen
Montgomery (26) was killed and another
RUC man seriously injured when a dro-
gue bomb hit their vehicle close to mid-
night at Sion Milis in Co Tyrone. The
bomb was thrown from a roof topo The
IRA claimed responsibility.
31 JANUARY: Private Nicholas Pea-
cock (20) from Grantham, Lincolnshire,
was killed in a bomb blast at the side
of the Rock Bar at the junction of the
Falls Road and Rockmore Road in West .
Belfast. The IRA had detonated a kilo
of commercial explosive in a drainpipe
as members of the joint RUC and Royal
Anglican Regiment patrol passed by.
In the North for less than a month,
Private Peacock was the first British sol-
dier to die in Ireland in 1989 and the
41Ith since the troubles began twenty
years ago. In a statement, in which they
claimed responsibility, the IRA accused
the Royal Anglican regiment and the
RUC of being engaged in destructive
house searches in the nearby St James
area.
6 FEBRUARY: James Joseph Connolly
(20) an IRA volunteer, from Castlederg,
Co Tyrone, was killed when a bomb he
was planting under the car of an RUC
officer exploded prematurely at Drum-
quin, Co Tyrone. Josie Connolly was
born in Glasgow in August 1968 and was
a bricklayer by trade and a well-known
amateur boxer.
9 FEBRUARY: Tony Fusco (33) of Mil-
ford Row, Divis Flats was shot by the
UVF as he walked to work in the Smith-
field Market in Belfast city centre. His
family denied a UVF claim that Mr
Fusco was a member ofthe IRA and said
he was shot solely because he was a Cath-
olic.
12 FEBRUARY: A solicitor Patrick
Finucane was killed by a UFF squad in
front ofhis wife and children at his home
 in Fortwilliam Drive in North Belfast.
Three men carrying serni-automatic wea-
pons and a sub-machine gun hit Mr
Finucane up to five times in the body
and head and injured rus wife Geraldine
in the foot. They claimed he was a mem-
ber of the IRA, a claim denied by his
family and by the republican movement.
The Irish Government registered a pro-
test over the killing with the British and
condemned once more the statement in
the House of Commons a month earlier
by Douglas Hogg, junior minister and
MP for Hackney South and Shoreditch,
who claimed that sorne lawyers in the
.North were "unduly sympathetic" to the
IRA.
Gerry Adams, president ofSinn Fein,
claimed after the shooting that a man
held in Castlereagh recently, a client of
Mr Finucane's, had been told by RUC
officers that the solicitor would be shot
dead by loyalists. Mr Finucane was sol-
icitor for Bobby Sands during the 1981
hunger strike and was prominent in rep-
resenting families of the victimsof the
shoot-to-kill policy later investigated by
John Stalker. Though unnamed Mr
Finucane is mentioned in John Stalker's
book when the author quotes an RUC
officer as saying that an "IRA solicitor
is worse than an IRA man". Mr Finu-
cane was to represent Sinn Fein in their
European case against the media ban on
the organisation. His brother Dermot,
whom he also represented, is currently
facing extradition in the Dublin courts
arising from his escape from the Maze
prison in 1983. Since Mr Finucane's
death three other nationalist solicitors
have been threatened with assassination ..
14 FEBRUARY: John Davey, a Sinn
Fein councillor in his late fifties, from
Magherafelt, Co Derry, was shot dead
as he returned to his home after a meet-
ing of Magherafelt District Council.
Exactly ayear earlier he had survived a
similar assassination attempt. Mr
Davey's car was found stationary with
his headlights switched off and hand-
brake on - giving rise to speculation
that he thought he had been stopped at
a checkpoint at the end of a wooded lan-
eway to his home. A former internee, Mr
Davey was detained for a time on the
Maidstone prison ship. His name had
been mentioned publicly in Westminister
by DUP MP William McCrea, who
claimed that Mr Davey had been impli-
cated in a murder of a Protestant in
October 1986. Mr Davey was the first
Sinn Fein councillor to be assassinated,
although there have been numerous
attempted murders of Sinn Fein rep-
resentatives, as well as of party president
Gerry Adams. In his graveside oration
for Mr Davey, Mr Adams accused the
UDR and RUC of collusion in this and
other recent attacks on nationalists.
18 FEBRUARY: Stephen McCrea (36)
of Ebor Street, off the Shankill Road,
died two days after being seriously
injured in an attack by the IPLO (an off-
shoot of the INLA) on the Orange Cross
Social Club on the Shankill Road. The
IPLO claimed that several recent loyalist
assassinations of nationalists had been
planned in the club and that loyalist
killers were present in the club at the time
of their attack. An off-duty UDR man
was also seriously injured along with
other customers. Mr McCrea had served
a lengthy prison sentence for his part in
the murder of Catholics sorne years ago.
20 FEBRUARY: Patrick Feeney (32) of
Tullylish, Gilford, Co Down, was the
second member of his farnily to be killed
by random loyalist attack. In 1975 rus
uncle John was shot by the UVF in Por-
tadown. Patrick Feeney was manning a
security gate the Ewart Liddelllinen mili
in Donaghcloney five miles from his
home where he had worked for 10 years
when he was shot dead just before 9.00
pm.
22 FEBRUARY: Lance Corporal Nor-
man Duncan (27) was shot dead by an
IRA unit as he drove from Ebrington
barracks in Derry to the nearby Ebring-,
ton primary school t~ collect the children
of soldiers in a school bus. The soldier
was a native of Craigellanchie in Scot-
land. Two men have since been charged
with rus murder.
26 FEBRUARY: Joseph Fenton (35)
from Sawel Hill, Andersonstown, was
shot dead by the IRA in Bunbeg Park,
Lenadoon. A claim by the IRA that Mr
Fenton was working as an agent for the
British army and RUC was immediately
denied. However, later in the week the
dead man's father, Patrick Fenton, said
that he accepted the IRA's claim having
been given evidence that his son had
worked as a paid informer since 1982.
His information had lead to the capture
of several IRA volunteers and the seizure
of arms and explosives by the RUC. On
one occasion the RUC special branch
had given Mr Fenton n5,000 to pur-
chase the franchise on an esta te agency
which was later used by the IRA to
secure safe houses which in turn were
then placed under surveillance by the
RUC. Mr Fenton left behind four chil-
dreno
28 FEBRUARY: Retired RUC Inspec-
tor Gabriel Mullaly of Kirkliston Park,
Belfast was killed when a bomb exploded
under his car at the junction of North
Road and Upper Newtownards Road.
The IRA claimed responsibility for the
killing. An IRA claim that the former
RUC officer was maintaining links with
extreme loyalist organisations was
denied by the dead man's family. A com-
pact magnet type bomb is believed to
have been used to booby trap his car.
 Lessons from the
bread war
THE BEN DUNNE BREAD-PRICE
"war" is doing a lot to help us to political
maturity. All those nice posters asking
us to look to 1992, and which signified
nothing, are coming into focus just that
little bit more. In a word, we are getting
a touch of the reallife of 1992 well ahead
of schedule.
You will remember that in 1992 we
are to have a truly common market. The
small Irish market may be marginal to
the giant food companies of Europe but
a percentage is a percentage and if you
can rack up as little as 2% growth in
export earnings in Ireland, you rack it
up.
So "cheap" food will flood into our
market forcing prices down. There will
be VAT on food but free market com-
petition will be such that foods will be
shipped to Ireland at competitive, ie
"cheap" prices. The Dunnes Stores ofthe
day will sell Continental pota toes, cab-
bage and the rest at what we will charge
will be "below-cost selling",
"Below-cost" selling is what your
local friendly trade union branch man
says it is.
We had one of the trade protection
gunslingers calling for an end to the
Dunne "monopoly": the Government
should move in and break up the Dunne
Empire.
Why? Because Ben brought the price
of bread down? Well no, but because he
was going to put small bakeries out of
business. This is loose usage of language.
Ben Dunne has no "monopoly" situation.
Feargal Quinn will tell you that.
For small bakeries read "inefficient",
They failed to retool when the grants
were going for retooling. Those who did
retool and installed new machinery
which made 90% of staff redundant were
making such a profit they could afford
to keep the redundant men on. Until the
war broke out and then they could give
generous early retirement to the surplus
workers and still bake bread cheaply.
Is it the role of a gunslinger for pri-
vate enterprise to cry for, and sustain,
the inefficient industries? Is the trade
union man who wants to see bread cost-
ing twice as much to the working families
acting in the best interest of that class?
Seldom have we seen such role
reversa!. God be with the time when Sean
MacEntee got a roasting for denying that
the loaf of bread would go up by a
ha'penny after a critical by-election was
decided: today trade union leaders who,
in other circumstances, would lambast
a Government for a twopence increase
in bread prices, beg the minister to fix
the cost of a loaf at ten pence or more
aboye the Ben Dunne price. The political
seasons, like the weather, are upset, as
Will Shakespeare would have it.
TODA Y WE CALL IT A PRICE WAR.
In 1992 we are going to call it "dumping"
and "below cose' selling. The trade
unions will petition the Government to
protest at the "dumping" of cheap food
and cheap clothes and cheap everything
on the grounds that Irish workers are
being put out of jobs by this free trading.
Lemass in the Sixties warned Irish
industries and provided generous grants
to retool and refurbish. Sorne did: they
survive and thrive today. The most
didn't and are dying.
The Irish taxpayer paid heavily for
the derogation for ten years to protect
jobs in the car industry. The companies
took every advantage up to the last min-
ute when Ford's closed down in Cork
and kissed the Irish taxpayer good-bye
and took off.
Fianna Fail, as a party, has been
making noises about privatisation and
it is fair to say that just as in the days
of Lemass in lndustry and Commerce we
had a big dose of "creeping socialism"
today we are, under Haughey, seeing a
fair dose of "creeping privatisation".
The Johnston Mooney and O'Brien
shuffle makes the entire case for the
whole industry. When the chips are down
and management comes to buy out the
firm, the work force is truly sweated
down in an effort to help it survive. And
the Government, taking a bit of stick,
mounts an aid packageof sorts to soften
the political blow. We sub sidise a British
multinational, Odlums.
Is this going to be a precedent for the
world of 1992, using taxpayers' money
to bale out the lame ducks?
Over half the older industries in this
country qualify for lame duck status: we
are an island of lame ducks which sur-
vived because of subsidies and the resto
The party is almost overo Life in 1992
will be for real in a very real world.
We owe Ben Dunne and the "bread-
price war" for an eye-openingexercise.
It has done more than all the postering
and publicity about 1992.
But have we learned anything?
WE'VE HEARD EVERYTHlNG
NOW that the Cruiser has joined in the
swelling army of supporters who get up
and sing lustily "We'Il rise and follow
Charlie".
THlNGS WERE GOING NICEL y IN
Sligo Leitrim until our EC Commis-
sioner, in Sligo Town for a farewell din-
ner, threw a political thin-cat (as
opposed to a fat-cat) into the fray with
the MacArthur-like suggestion that Ray
 would be back one day to c1aim the seat Councillor Mulrooney was February's IRA man and followed Del' when the fol-
he was now vacating and in the flavour of the month, as I reported, and lowing was to be done. Aman you might
meantime it would rema in a MacSharry while he will still be a runner at the con- say for all seasons and all constituencies.
seat. vention, he blotted his copybook a little There is to be a Comhairle Dail
Close observers of the Taoiseach, when he failed to show for the filling of Ceanntair meeting in Sligo on March
who was present, noted the eyelids drop- a vacancy caused by the death of Coun- 18th to decide on the date for the con-
ped more than somewhat and suddenly cillor BiII Monahan whose son was nomi- . vention which will be held no later than
Sligo was a place to be quitting. More nated by a Labour councillor and the last week of March.
than one felt t~at Ray was having the seconded by an Independent to take a The tussle will be between Monag-
best end of both worlds: a fat-cat Com- seat. Later Councillor Mulrooney could han, Padraig MacSharry, Cllr Mulroo-
mission salary and perks while a brother/ not muster enough support, and was ney and Sligo horticulturalist Hugh
on daughter MacSharry would inherit heavily outvoted, as the constituency del- Glynn. As we go to press Monaghan is
the seat in Sligo-Leitrim. It was simply egate to the National Committee. telling friends he has 48 out of the 72
in the fiefdom of the MacSharrys. I do Sligo clubs and everything to play for in
remember a time when that kind ofthing Leitrim. Ray's daughter, Heather, may
would be labelled Fianna Fail arrogance. THE USUAL SLIGO LEITRIM FRic- still be pressed by the party even though
It would be frowned upon. tion is being stirred up again because of they know she would face the charge of
1 have been through the varying sce- the old imbalances. Sligo Fianna Fail being a "bed and breakfast" TD, the
narios, but one, featur- charge so elegantly lev-
ing the MacSharry elled by her father,
family possibles. Dr Ray, against Ted Nea-
Jude said no way was Ion when he first ran in
he going. Daughter Sligo. Padraig
Heather said she wasn't MacSharry c1aims he
going and if they forced has nailed down all of
. her she'd never return Leitrim's 48 clubs .
to Sligo, having shaken * * *
the dust of the place FIANNA FAIL
offa her shoes. Ray HEADQUARTERS
Junior was reported announced that the by-
not to be interested election would be held
either. with the European elec-
That left Ray's tion: it suits the Fianna
brother, Padraig. Fail strategy. It is
Despite Ray Charlie and his overall
MacSharry's high pro- minority walking over
file in a Fianna Fail the Niagara Falls on a
government it is said tight-wire throwing
his brother, Padraig, away the balancing
had other and better pole saying "Look, Ma
ways of spending his - no pole".
leisure time, than join- He knows no one,
ing and taking part in but no one, will delight
the affairs of a Fianna him by throwing him
Fail cumann. I'rn told into the briar bush of
Ray had already gone a general election. He
to Brussels before is the matador who
Padraig joined up. controls his bull to the
The decision to join point where he can
the Soldiers of Destiny stroke it between the
hasn't exactly set Sligo horns without fear.
burning with political zeal, sorne politic- members hold it should be a Sligo-only There are other benefits. A same-day
ally ambitious and jealous members vote, the Leitrim clubs to be debarred. by-election on June 15 saves money on
holding him to be the MacSharry least It figures when you realise Sligo has 72 a separate campaign and has the biggest
likely to succeed. registered clubs and Leitrim 48. plus of all in a Dessie O'Malley PeeDee
It's between them it is, I sayo Seamus Monaghan would not only scenario and Republican Blaney trying
A measure of how open the field is pass the US Senate Committee being a to take him from the other side.
to be gained by the fact my good friend Pioneer and a happily married man with European election turn-outs average
Seamus Monaghan is organising a no name of womanising, but he adds to about 50% whereas a good by-election
campaign in North and South Sligo. Old his Mister Clean-Living Man image the will bring out over 70%. The difference
clubs are being encouraged to re-register added information in his circular that the is in the region of 8,000 votes which will
and send in the bobs needed to ha ve late Monsignor Horan invited him to use be predominantly Fianna Fail.
thern in political benefit so that Monag- his business talents to help the Monsig- In the elimination of Bobby Molloy,
han stands a chance of getting on the FF nor to build Knock Airport. Which he who is going for PeeDees, bis surplus will
ticket. did, as Eamonn Kelly, the story teller, go to Mark Killilea and Sean Doherty
:\lr Monaghan, you'lI remember, was might have put it. who will benefit from the majority of the
the man who told Charlie during the last In Leitrim which is gunsmoke 10,000 first preferences Bobby is
O'Malley heave, he should, in the country, the Knock card isn't as appre- expected to polI.
interest of the party, resign the FF ciated so Searnus modestly reminds the So we face the longest-running by-
leadership. clubs there that his father was an old election campaign in the state's history.
TO RENAULTS' HUGE workforce the
new R 19 is more than just another model
to add to the existing line-up as a replace-
ment for the R9/II cars. It represents an
expression of an irresistible will. for
hange, for success, for quality, and in
this regard Renault management expect
the R 19 ro firrnly consolidate their
improving financial fortunes.
The firrri's overriding aim has been
ualiry at every stage of production from
start ro finish. Never before has a car
produced by Renault created such
upheaval in automation of production
methods and re-training of its staff.
More independent, and with greater
responsibility and better qualifications,
people have learnt to work differently.
For Renault the RI9 heralds the age
of an industrial revolution within the
firrn and indeed the car itse!f is all the
better for that. It has that solid well-put-
together feel about it and appears to
have been designed with durability in
mind.
Three models are currently available
in the Irish market, two 1.4 litre petrol
models and a 1.8 litre diese! competiti-
vely priced at EIO,595 and E12,250 and
El 1,955 for the diesel. A van derivative
is expected next month and a powerful
16 valve t1ying machine in September.
The engines are new designs and the
petrol unit can run on unleaded or leaded
petrol without adjustment. The 1.4 litre
engine is more powerful than sorne 1.6
litre unts and provides the Rl9 with
more than adequate performance whilst
returning a respectable 43.8 m.p.g.
'Euromix' average. The diesel too does
not disappoint in the all important
overtaking speed range of between 50
and 70 m.p.h. producing a smart accel-
eration time of 8.5 seconds in third gear
with an extra safety margin provided by
the speed governor not cutting in until
74 m.p.h.
Both these cars could cruise all day
at 90 m.p.h. in 5th gear without strain.
The R19 swallows up bumpy secondary
Irish roads as though its chassis had been
designed specially for them, giving it a
speed with safety and comfort capability,
especially in the wet. Japanese car manu-
facturers please take note, we dori't want
stiffly sprung, short-wheel-travel cars in
Ireland, thank you!
Although the R19 is 9% heavier than
the R 11 it manages to better the R 11's
average fuel consumption by about 8.5%
and its a lot roomier and four inches
longer. Its close rival, the Fiat Tipo, has
slightly superior interior space but the
R19 makes up for this by providing 21%
more boot space.
Our major criticism of the R19 con-
cerns the wide rear corner roof pillars
which impede rearward vision, and
excessively heavy steering when parking
particularly with the heavy front-ended
diesel car and strong self-centring action
when cornering at low speeds is objec-
tionable. A power steering option on the
diesel only is available from May at a
cost of E500.
Overall though it's a good quality
package for the price, enjoyable and
comfortable to drive and should help the
Irish importer, Renault Distributors, to
increase their market share this year by
at least one per cent.
Other new cars in the pipeline from
Renault include a 5-door version of the
R21 due this year and a new small car
next year.
 Press Selectivity
T HE ANNOUNCEMENT ON 23
February of a new chief constable
of the RUC provided the Dublin
papers with a handy peg on which to
hang pieces about the problems of polic-
ing the North. Sir John Hermon's
replacernent, Hugh Annesley, curren tiy
assistant commissioner of the London
Metropolitan Police, had a number of
features which slotted fairly neatly into
standard analyses: born in Dublin of a
a Belfast-born father and having served
more than thirty years as a policeman
in England, he presented almost an
identikit likeness of the rnedia's ideal
RUC boss.
The Irish Times (24 February) led
with the story under the headline: "Dub-
liner named as next RUC chief constab-
le". The story suggested that "The
(police) authority's members may ...
have felt that his Dublin background
would give the new Chief Constable an
intuitive understanding of the complex-
ities of Northern Ireland's problems and
the sensitivities of No rth-So uth
relations",
The Irish Press made the same point
in an editorial the same day: "With a
Catholic mother from the Republic, a
Protestant father from the North and an
education in Dublin, Mr Annesley might
be said to be uniquely qualified to bridge
the sectarian divide".
Mr Annesley flew into Belfast for a
press conference on the day after the
announcement of his appointment.
Reports of the press conference, again,
highlighted the beneficial effects of his
multi-faceted background. The chief
constable designate himself agreed that
"his background would be helpful to him
in his new role" (Irish Times). The Irish
Independent reported the "Dublin-born
49-year-old father-of-two" declaring that
"1 feel culturally comfortable here. Inevi-
tably some knowledge of culture is an
advantage to a country which has had
a long history of mixed culture."
Curiously, despite Mr Annesley's
"unique" qualfications, which were
well-known, commentators were unani-
mous that his appointment had been
quite unexpected. It had caused "wides-
pread surprise", reported martin Cowley
in the Irish Times. (25 February). Mr
Annesley "had not been tipped", Alan
Murray concurred in the Press (Febr-
uary 24). And so on. However, no corn-
mentator said directly (although a
number gave hints) why it was that the
appointment of such an obvious candi-
date had come as a bolt from the blue.
The reason was that for some time
officials of the Northern Ireland Office
had been voicing it abroad that a diffe-
rent candidate, Geoffrey Dear of the
West Midlands constabulary, was their
preferred choice, and it had been
assumed on the basis of past experience
that the North's Police Authority would
meekly row in with the NIO's wishes.
Viewed in this light, Mr Annesley's
appointment represented an assertion of
independence by the authority - in itself
not an insignificant development, given
that the authority has long been
regarded, particularly by Northern
nationalists, as a timid body unwilling
to stand up either to the NIO or to its
"own" chief constable.
This aspect of the appointment was
not entirely ignored in coverage. In a
penetrating piece in the Sunday Press (26
February), for example, Alan Murray
wrote: "It has been suggested that Mr
Annesley was con sidered by the police
authority members who interviewed him
to be much more attentive to their obser-
vations than Geoffrey Dear might have
been, and that this was a deciding factor
in his selection for the post. The
authority, got little change out of Sir
John Hermon ... ". (In the Tribune on
the same day, the crime correspondent
of the London Independent, Terry Kirby,
wrote that "... it is likely that had Mr
Dear been appointed to the job that
everyone expected him to get and for
which there was a strong lobby in Lon-
don, he would have been his own man".
That the authority was out to select
its own man, and that this was a more
important factor than "knowledge of
culture", had c1early been signalled on
the day the appointment was announced
in an unequivocal statement by Police
Authority chairman Tom Rainey, that
Mr Annesley's background "did not
assist him in any way",
Despite this, the general thrust of
coverage in the Dublin papers, particu-
larly the dailies, would have left readers
with the clear impression that Mr Annes-
ley's Catholic/Protestant, Dublin/
Belfast, Irish/British credentials had
been the decisive factor in securing him
the jobo
No doubt the "local boy makes
good" angle had an appeal. As well,
treating the appointment as an indica-
tion of non-sectarian, cross-Border,
trans-national attitudes at work lends
omething warm, human and "hopeful"
o the story. And Dublin newspapers
yield to no one in their anxiety to spot
riny signs of "hope" for the North which
n be magnified to major-story status.
TOe result is that Southern readers gain
a - ao-doubt comforting - impression
that things in the North have become,
or ere about to become better.
Highlighting the fact and pondering
the significance of the Police Authority
flexing what musc1es it has left after long
years of flabby quiescence would have
been a more complex endeavour, and
rather difficult to fit into the welcome
development/regrettable development
categories: nevertheless, this was the
story and, notwithstanding Alan Murray
and Terry Kirby's Sunday pieces, by and
large it was missed.
Much of the coverage of the Annes-
ley appointment inevitably concerned
whether with his "unique qualifications"
he might be able to improve relations
between the RUC and Northern Catho-
lics. While Mr Annesley was conducting
his press conference in Belfast on Febr-
uary 24th, events were taking place in
Derry which may have sorne bearing on
this matter.
As journalists asked whether he con-
sidered himself British or Irish (his reply,
"1 am a senior British policeman with
an Irish background" was much
admired) a sizable force of RUC officers
was moving in to seal off the Ballyma-
groarty esta te on the north-west edge of
the city. Road blocks were set up across
each entrance/exit and anyone entering
or leaving the estate was held for a
search-and-question session.
Ballymagroarty remained sealed off
for six hours during which time houses
were searched and, according to the local
community association, a number dam-
aged. Over the next two days similar
operations were carried out in the Gob-
nascale, Brandywell, Creggan and
Coshowen estates.
The front page of the next edition of
the Derry Journal (28 February) head-
lined the c1aim: "CITY UNDER MAR-
TIAL LAW". The story beneath quoted
two SDLP ex-mayors of the city. Joe
Fegan "accused the security forces of
abusing legislation" while John Tierney
c1aimed that "he had been inundated
with complaints fram people of all areas
held prisoners in their homes while entire
areas were sealed off'.
Sinn Fein's Martin McGuinness was
quoted alleging that "around 300"
homes had been raided and that a "57-
year-old mother of thirteen" had been
among thirteen people arrested for ques-
tioning.
The same issue of the Journal - a
"modera te" nationalist organ, which is
supportive of the SDLP and whose fre-
quent denunciations of IRA violence
would not be out of place in, say, the
Irish Independent - carried an editorial
which dec1ared: "In the wake of another
weekend of punitive house raids the per-
ception of the RUC as an anti-Catholic
body intent on 'putting the bcot in' has
grown even greater than before, and
plain speaking is essential.
"The police will blandly reply to criti-
cisms by c1aiming that they are trying to
pratect the people. Terrifying and intimi-
dating old people is a strange way of
carrying out that objective. .
"How can anyone justify the raiding
of pensioners' homes in the early hours
of the morning, forcing people both old
and frail to get out of bed at that time,
brusquely refusing to give any expla-
nation ofsuch atrocious denial ofhuman
rights, reading private letters and papers,
arriving Gestapo-like with crow-bars
and other aggressive accoutrements? ...
"Everyone knows that the IRA is
active in Derry. The brutal murder of a
young British soldier last week is not for-
gotten. The funds of explosive material s
are regarded as disturbing evidence of
IRA intentions by the vast majority of
the people.
"But those aspects of our situation
are no excuse at all for communal pun-
ishment reminiscent of British repression
in India in the 1930s. The RUC activities
are ... in the same nasty tradition."
These events in Derry were not men-
tioned in any Dublin newspaper. Anyone
dependent on Dublin newspapers for
knowledge of what is happening in the
North will be unaware ofthem, and una-
ware of the reaction to them of national-
ists, inc1uding anti-lRA nationalists.
It is, of course, impossible to say with
certainty which developments today will
be decisive in shaping relations in the
North in the future. But it is, to put it
no higher, arguable that RUC activities
in Derry over the weekend of 24-26 Febr-
uary will prove more influential in shap-
ing RUC-Catholic relations than the
interesting family history of Mr Hugh
Annesley. It is arguable, too, that if, a
year from now, it becomes c1ear that
RUC-Catholic relations have not
improved, readers of Dublin newspapers
will experience a deepening sense of
bewilderment about the North.
But then the facts about Mr Annes-,
ley's background were available in pot-
ted bio, from a helpful press officer. And
they did make su eh hopeful reading.
.KEN SMYTH, at TRIS is the second of a series of articles by a 32-year-old Dublin When alone in
the swimming man dying of Aids. His identity and the identities of al! those the house, maybe
baths, skimpy togs, referred to in this article have been disguised by the use of on a Monday or
reveals just a pseudonyms and otherwise. Thursday morning
glimpse of pubic This current article deals with the awakening of his sexuality (mother goes shop-
hair. It's black, just and his growing realisation that he was a homosexual. ping then) 1 might
like his mop of Parts of this article are explicit about his early sexual activi- go into Anne's and
curly long hair. tieso Re himself explaints the reasons for this explicitness. Ruth's bedroom,
He's lean and put on a pair of
tanned. \ Anne's tights and
It was always the
HE purpose of these diary extracts is not to shock or

T
facing her ward-
titillate but rather to give an indication of what it was
same. It was the robe mirror do it.
like for me in the 1970s in Ireland to consciously realise
blokes 1 noticed. Or do it in the hall-
my homosexuality. 1do not find it possible to talk about
Sure, at school with way opposite the
my sexuality, and the issues that arise from it, without
friends the talk was mirror with a
of women -tits,
talking direct1y about my sexual experiences. So 1 am,
at times, necessarily explicito blouse on or maybe
the usual smut. But even a skirt. Sexy
for me, the longings
1 believe it is important to have sorne understanding of gay
me, fondling
- intangible -
life so that one can appreciate how Aids spread so rapidly
myself. 1 had to
through our community world-wide. This understanding is
were not for the make sure everyth-
necessary for the health authorities amongst others, and for you,
girls in their school ing was carefully
the general public, to tackle the Aids issue. It is also useful in
up the road, but for put back.
appreciating the difficulties that we as gay individuals and a
guys in my own A few times 1 did
community have encountered in trying, maybe not always suc-
class. This pro- it completely naked
ceeding, to change our behaviour from the sexually liberated
duced no real con- in the kitchen yard
days of the 1970s and early 1980s. It is the health considerations
fusion in me. It was squatting behind
only that ha ve necessitated this change.
too early yet for the wall in case Mrs
1am not c1aimingthat my story is every other Irish gay man's
labelling. There was story. Clearly it is noto But this is my story. And not everything Flynn next door
just the contradic- saw me. 1 could feel
about me is unique. 1 did not have sex on my own.
tion of saying one the air on my
t h in g , feeling arse.
another. Others didn't seem to have this contradiction. It's Wednesday afternoon. I'm no more than fifteen.
So from an early age there was a sense of difference.. Mother has gone to town. On my own. 1 go down to
Of superiority even. Definitely, 1 was the outsider. the local shop to buy a pop magazine just for the photos
At night, if there was rowdy behaviour out on the of the men - chests revealed, tight trousers, long hair.
road, 1would jump out of bed and look out from behind 1 wish 1 had long hair. Flicking through a magazine in
the curtain at the wild boys from the council housing the shop. Stop at a Rod Stewart poster. Who's that guy
esta te going up or down the avenue. 1 wished 1 was looking at me? He's old - maybe around thirty or forty.
among them. And 1 would masturbate, in the darkness., He follows me out. 1 encourage. Up the road, looking
at them. behind me, beckoning with my hand. Still behind me
 when I turn onto our road. Go into the house. Look stupid. Receive Communion. Have I committed another
out my bedroom window. He's pacing up and down. sin by doing so? If I die now will I go to Hell forever,
-Go back out to the front garden. He comes up and asks eternity?
to use the phone. I bring him in. He dials a number. It was ayear of scruples. Sin was everywhere but espe-
I'm upstairs, taking off my clothes. Put on my father's cially in my head. Confession was a torment. Had I con-
dressing-gown, the good one, bought for his honey- fessed everything? And the difficuity to remain sinless
moon. Receiver is put back. Go down and let him out from the time of confession on a Saturday evening to
explaining my appearance by saying that I was the time of Communion on a Sunday morning.
going to have a' . I only once did it
bath. He leaves. during this year. It
Hope Mrs Flynn was in bed before
didn't see anything. the parents carne to
He walks up and check me before
down the road. I they themsel ves
masturbate by the went to bed. The
window. Spot him sense of guilt I hado
again the following Cut-off from God.
day -parks his car O mother do you
near the house and know that your son
gets out, walks has just commi tted
past. Again the fol- a mortal sin?
lowing day. On the Should 1 tell her?
third day, at night No, leave it be.
closing the drive- Yet, during this
way gates, he drives time my religious
slowly past. I give doubts and ques-
him the two fingers. tions grew stronger.
I never saw him How could Catho-
agam. licism claim to be
Shortly after it's the one true
the school religious religion? The only
overnight retreat. way I had to verify
Sin. Evilness of .sin that was to know
explained. It's a about other
turning away from religions. Wasn't it
God. In mortal sin unfair to those
one cuts oneself off born into other
from His grace religions in diffe-
forever. Sin need rent cultures? Was
not be just an I just a Catholic
action. It can also because I was born
be thought. Bad into a Catholic
thoughts. Thoughts family in this cul-
about sexoOne can ture? Wasn't the
sin without doing idea of eternal pun-
anything. No "Hell, ishment horrible?
Fire and Brimsto- How could a good
ne" sermon here God create this? Ir
like in James Joy- I were God I
ce's day but some- w o u l d n" t have
thing far more sinister. A friendly priest, sits on atable, created such a thing. Jesus could not have saved without
feet on a chair and chats with the lads. We are the lads. God creating Judas. Wasn't Judas, the sinner, necessary
He's just like USo He's been through it all. Individual to salvation? Poor Judas. God had created everything
confessions in his office late into the night. I talk with including sin. If sin offends and hurts God, wasn't it
him and confess (did not go into details, just mentioned very stupid of God to create it in the first place? It would
I did it) at 3.00am. It's healthy the priest said if it hap- be like me making a machine that punched me in the
pens in your sleep at night without you doing anything. face every time I eat.
But to do it yourself, that was a grevious sin. I go to Such religious thoughts occupied my mind increas-
my bedroom in this strange retreat house at 4.00am ingly, gradually banishing the desire I had for the
cleansed, pure, holy but scared of the dark. Dyingto religious life. That desire had oscillated between a con-
go to the loo. Fear the walk down the dark strange cor- templative monk, Brother Beniface, and a loved-by-alJ
ridor. Piss in the sink in my room. Was that a sin? Should popular priest. I read a book on Lourdes by a Protestant,
I go to confession again before I receive Communion yes a Protestant, lady. Something unusual definitely hap-
at the closing Mass at lunch-time? Afraid of appearing pened and does happen there, but what it is is open to
cal1ed The Irish Gay Rights Movement (IGRM) and its
address 46 Parnel1 Square, Dublin l. I went downstairs
and very cool1y rang them. YesoThey had an awareness
group on a Wednesday evening al 7.30pm and ran discos
on a Friday, Saturday and Sunday night.
On the Tuesday evening I put on a smal1 tight-fitting
jumper I had and my favourite jeans and went into town
just to see where this place was so that I would know
where to go on the Wednesday. I went past the door.
Saw two guys in denim come out. Paced up to the top
of the square. Who is this guy looking at me? He comes
up. "Are you gay?" he asks. "Well, I'm not too sure."
"Would you like to have a chat with someone?" "Yes,
if you wouldn't mind." "No problem. Come with me."
And he brings me into the building.
I'm introduced to two guys and in a room facing the
square they answer my questions. What is a homosexual?
How do es one know one is? But I knew the answers.
They need not have bothered replying. Their comment
that a number of gay men hadset up home together
as couples did not surprise. Isn't that what people do
who are in love? It's what I wanted to do. O Mr Right,
where are you? Maybe that's why I wished to be a priest
- to be in a community of meno I am brought on a
tour of the building. Shown the coffee bar and the disco
floor. My great disappointment is that I do not fancy
any of the guys that I've met here.
They ask me to join them for a drink in Bartley
Dunnes which they described as a gay bar. A gay bar!
So they actual1y do existoBob was right when he referred
to Bartley Dunnes as a queer'spub. He had also named
others The Bailey and Rice's - in that list of bars to
be avoided.
We get in a car and drive across town. The guy I
met on the square is with usoHe says "I'm sure you have
paced up and down here afraid to entero I did for six
months before I got the courage." 1didn't have the heart
to tell him that I didn't know such a place really existed.
1 drank a coke. I didn't drink alcohol. My parents didn't
allow. 1 noticed sorne guys eye me up. Overheard one
make a favourable comment on me.
Leaving the bar, the guy from the square said he
would accompany me to my bus stop. We were in time
to see the last bus go. Would I like to go home to Ball-
ymun with him? "No. I have to be up early in the morn-
ing for work but if you like you could come home with
me." I did not find him attractive. But he was available.
We got a taxi. He paid. Arriving home we went straight
up to my bedroom.
Underneath the picture of The Holy Family and
opposite the statue of The Blessed Virgin, we stripped
and got into bed. I did not want the light off. Afraid
of the dark. We stroked each other. "You need not do
everything I do," he said. We kissed. His teeth hurt my
mouth. He turned me sideways and tried to put his penis
up my bottom. So Bob was right again. They do stick
their penis up one another's arse. He was being pro ved
correct twice in the one night. How come he knew so
much?
But why anyone wanted to put their penis up some-
one's bottom I couldn't fathom. I was far too tight. It
hurt and wouldn't go in. Soon I carne. I was so excited
my penis would not soften. I wanted to piss very badly.
Was it going to remain erect forever? Your man got ner-
vous. After half-an-hour it relaxed and I was able to
piss.
The following morning I let him out. I hoped Mrs
Flynn didn't see him leave. He was the first man I ever
touched. I was twenty-and-a-half. 1 do not remember
his name. I went to work that morning elated. I wanted
to tell everyone that I had done it. But I kept silent.
I did not go to the Awareness Meeting on the Wed-
nesday. On the Friday evening with my white jumper
I went to Bartley Dunnes and from there to the disco.
The sight of men dancing together did not shock me.
It was natural. That night I went back to Ballymun with
"your man". I wanted to see someone else's home. One
of Dublin's leading actors gave us a lift. I was impressed
having such a famous persa n drive uso We sat in the
back of his car like a chauffeur driven couple. In a
draughty cold bedroom he tried to fuck me again. But
it didn't work. The KY on my penis was a lovely sen-
sation. In the morning I had to cross town for home.
I hoped the Flynns would not notice the milk bottles
still on the door-step.
Increasingly during the months that followed I led
a double life. I would tel1 my parents that I was going
out to a disco with the lads. I would tell them I was
going to sorne party. In fact I headed into town to Bart-
ley Dunnes and from there to the disco for adventure.
And what adventure. I had whoever would have me. I
was complimented, surprised even, that someone found
me physically attractive. There were hairdressers,
accountants, teachers, bus drivers. The class barriers
were lowered here. In that basement we were united in
the one pursuit,
If I met someone they would have either to drop me
home in their car befare 4.00am (a French guy once
dropped me back in time after having sex in Wicklow)
or else give me the money for a taxi. There would be
war at home if 1 stayed out any later. If 1 had not met
anyone, the well-known actor would give me a lift on
his way home.
Yet throughout such promiscuity then, and also for
many years to come, 1 longed to meet that Mr Right.
But when he couldn't be found, and 1 thought 1 found
him on many an occasion, 1 settled for Mr Will-do.
In late September, with my savings from the summer
job in the Dublin Gas Company, 1 went on my first hol-
iday without my parents. First to London. Two friends
from college who had been working there all summer
-Iucky them to ha ve been allowed to work abroad -
put rile up in their bed-sit for the first night. The second
night 1 booked myself into a gay hotel. Small, bed-and-
breakfast place. Clean, attractive looking house. The
manager, aman with tattoos, lived with a fourteen-year-
old boyas a lover. The guests were men with reputations
- men who dealt in jewellery which 1 had good reason
to suspect was sto len, a manager of a pop group late)
brought to court for having sex with minors, and a porr
writer.
The manager could not fully understand me. My days
were spent in art galleries, museums, seeing the sights
In the evening 1 would go t the theatre or a concert
And then 1 would go on to a gay club. Hopefully anc
usually 1 got picked up. If 1 didn't 1 had someone frorr
the hotel. Once the manager and his lover. The manage:
liked my black new briefs. My youthful appearance
ensured that 1 was in demando
One Tuesday afternoon, while watching early evenin
television in the hotel, this boy of no more than fourteer
(he insisted he was sixteen) caressed my leg. The managei
had picked him up the night before. He was camp, effe
minate. His skimpy T-shirt revealed his smooth skinnec
stomach. 1 desperately wanted him but was embarras see
to encourage him. What would the others say?
1 went up to my bedraom. He followed. He lay 01
the bed and brought me to him. The taste of his kiss
He felt my cock through my trousers. "Is it a big one?'
he asked. How was one to answer that one? It's all se
relative. "What a pity 1 have met you now," he said
"The doctor said 1 was not to be fucked until Friday
1 bled this morning from my arse and went to the clinic
I'm sure it was that Indian 1 had at the week-end."
was stunned. 1 had met someone with a sexual disease
1 had also met someone who had been fucked and wa
not ashamed about it and seemed to enjoy it and wante
more. He asked me what 1 was doing that evening. A
yet 1 wasn't sure. He was going to this apartment wher
men paid you to walk around naked. Would 1 like t
go? The manager called him downstairs. He was ser
away from the hotel, the manager considering him a ba
influence. 1 never saw him again. There are times whe
1 wished 1 had gone with him that evening - to be eye
and fondled by those meno
1 spent a fair bit of my time going from one sex sho
to another all over London. In one in Earls Court 1 trie
on and bought a pair of see-thru briefs allowing th
grizzled owner feel me. Why didn't 1 buy that tight-fi
ting jump suit? From one of the gay magazines 1 gc
the telephone numbers of photographers requiring nuc
male models. Never miss out on a new experience whe
young and beautiful. You may only live to regret it. Or
 photographer turned me down. I was too old. But the warit equal rights, equal treatment in the eyes of the
second took a number of nude photos of me - spread- law." But we are not the same. That does not mean that
eagled, face-down on a bed, leaning by a wal1and sitting, we are to be discriminated against. We are just different.
playing with my erect penis on an easy chair. If I called I break the news to Mike. He has a "so what" kind
on the Saturday he would give me the photos and pay of attitude to the announcement. Very much inwith the
me f20 an hour for modelling with another model. He latest fashions is our Mike. "Are you going to tell the
told me not to wear too tight a pair of briefs as this others?" he asks. "Yes." I hate all this Iying and mystery.
would mark my skin and take maybe half-an-hour to Bob is stunned to find himself knowing a homosexual.
disappear. I had sex with his lover and left. I never Doesn't like the idea. For him, I'm just going through
returned. I wish I hado Now I would have photographs . a passing phase. Now a whole battery of jokes had to
of myself nude when only twenty. I wonder what I was be axed. Tony worries about my soul. He thinks it's all
physical1y like then. Would I find that body attractive very sinful. He wil1pray for me. Alan, characteristical1y,
now? I didn't then. has no reaction. He never had a reaction to anything,
After ten days in London, I went to Paris for a week including unfortunately me. Maybethat is why I was
to stay with the French guy I had sex with in Wicklow. after him .
.A disaster. He wanted me to have sex with his lover as Consternation had been caused.
wel1but I found him repulsive. Being young I was treated For me, now that I had labelled myself for others,
wel1. I was brought to one of the most glamorous gay I began to wonder could I real1y be one of them. Was
discos. It made Parnel1 Square so second-rate. In a res- I actually a homosexual? But a walk up Grafton Street
taurant attached to the disco we had a beautiful meal. noticing, not the women, but the crotches was sufficient
The owner carne round and kissed everyone - his way for me to be able to say to myself as well as to others,
of greeting the guests. And the disco itself was full of "Yes. I fancy men."
such attractive meno Trays of iced coconuts and melons
were passed to the dancers by waiters who changed their
outfits into more outrageous ones about every hour. We
left early at 5.00am.
I returned to the gay hotel in London. When the man-
ager and his lover went for a three-day holiday to
Brighton, he left me managing it. On their return I carne
home. Col1ege was due to re-open.
Parents and friends got a very censored holiday
report.
The bus on the way home from college one cold wet
January evening. Joan, who lives near, is teasing me
about this girlfriend I am supposed to have since I am
not going to the discos regularly with the lads. There
and then I decide to tell her the truth. She is shocked.
She never suspected that I could be one of them. I ask
her to tel1 no one but 1'11tel1 Helen, a mutual friend,
so she will have someone to talk to about it. I tel1Helen.
She too is stunned. I don't look "Iike a queer - sorry
homosexual - or is the term gay?" They tal k about it
behind my back. I never really got to know their real
attitude.
To both I had to explain what a homosexual was,
nicely, so as not to offend sensitivities. It simply meant
that you were emotionally and physically (note the order
- distasteful sex placed second) attracted to persons of
your own sexo I did 'not dislike women. I was perfectly
normal, like everyone else, except that I preferred men
sexual1yand not women. That was the gay rights propa-
ganda at the time and .even is still. "We are the same
as everyone else, except in our sexual preference. So we
 Gemma Hussey announced in February her
decision to leave politics after the next elec-
tion. It carne as a surprise as she is still only
50 and one of the few on the Fine Gael
frontbench with ministerial experience.
She was a leading member of the
Women's Political Association in the 'sev-
enties and was elected on the NUI panel
to the Senate in 1977. She joined Fine Gael
in early 1981 and unsuccessfully contested
the Wicklow constituency in the 1981 elec-
tion. She was again elected to the Senate
however and was appointed leder of that
Why are you quitting?
I had a slight health scare last October. I had a lump
on my breast and I thought this was it. Everything turned
out to be alright but I went through a dark night oC
the soul as you might sayo Around that time I turned
50 and the two occurrences crystallised what I might do
- which was that I would not stay in politics for the rest
ofmy life, I would not beco me the "mother ofthe Dail".
I realised then last Autumn really that if I were to
go back into what I would consider leading a normal
life this would be the time to do it. If I were to run in
the next election I think that it is probably fair to say
that my seat would be assured in Wicklow. Whatever
happened to Fine Gael in the election it would have
meant another several years in politics the next election
might not be immediately it might not be for another
two years, add that two years to another four or five
years and end up being in politics for another six or seven
years. I decided that I didn't want to do that. I wanted
to reclaim mylife and do other things.
Was part of it that you didn't want to be another six
or seven years in opposition?
No in many ways I prefer being in opposition to being
in government.I was in government four and a bit years
which I found an enormous challenge but I didn't enjoy
much of it. I don't think many of my colleagues in
government did enjoy it. But really my decision to leave
politics was not any thing to do with being in opposition.
It was to do with having a different life.
House .by Garret FitzGerald.
She was elected to the Dail for Wicklow
in the february 1982 election and has been
successful in the two elections since then.
She was appointed Minister for Educa-
tion in December 1982 and was moved to
Social Welfare in February 1986 in what
were for her traumatic circumstances. Her
ministerial career both in education and
social welfare was controversial but she
instigated sorne key reforms in education.
She intends writing about her ministerial
career after she leaves politics.
Why didn't you enjoy the last period in government?
I think everybody would recognize that that period
in Government was terribly hard, tetribly difficult
because we had the difficulties with the Labour Party
our partners in Government. On a personal level we all
got on extremely well and around the cabinet table, cer-
tainly after Frank Cluskey left.
Frank Cluskey was always a source of tension around
the cabinet table but when he resigned the four labour
ministers and the rest of us got on extremely well but
they were absolutely bedevilled by the difficulties with
their back benchers. Every week in the Dail was "will
they won't they" go through the right lobby on whatever
it was. An equal source of worry, of course was the
guaranteed outright opposition from Fianna Fail on
everything. No matter what you were trying to do, you
could be sure that you would have complete and utter
opposition from Fianna Fail.
These difficulties added a great deal to the normal dra-
matic time of being in Government at a period when
you are trying to rationalise the finances of the country
and cut back and take difficult decisions which were
taken as far as they could be taken I suppose.
Was the lack of enjoyment contributed to by indecisive-
ness in the early years. I'm thinking particularly of the
first budget when Alan Dukes proposed that the budget
defefecit would be reduced by a certain amount and Dick
Spring from his hospital bed said no way and eventually
Spring won out on that.

-~ r:: ~tr-I:e: 2: z: time _ Bu: 1 felt that we were in a
di3Cll!: tirae doing a hell of a lot better job than Fianna Fail
hao been doing in the previous government.
You must remember that we carne into Government after
a .period when there was extreme worry about where that
Fianna Fail government was leading the country. You had the
GUBU events. You had the bugging and phone tapping and ...
Did that happen only under Fianna Fail?
1 certainly was never aware of being a party to the kind
of thing that went on then . 1 felt that difficult and all as our
position was it was an awful lot better for the country than
what had immediately preceeded it .
There must have been a great sense of excitment about get-
ting into government at that time in December 1982?
There was a great sense of relief than 1 think that the uncer-
tainty and instability of the previous 18 months were over.
We were all exhausted after three general elections in quick
succession.
There was a great deal of media speculation at the time
that .there would be a woman in the new cabinet. 1 found this
speculation extremely annoying as 1 think all of us women did
because it was being spoken of in terms of a token woman.
The speculation was that it was going to me either me or Nuala
Fennel . Until 1 was called into Garret'as office 1 didn't know
if 1 was going tope a miniter or not. 1 was the very last of
the ministers-to-be to be called into Garret's office and when
1 was called 1 thought it was to be told by Garret that he was
sorry he couldn't include me.
Garret as normal was surrounded by sheets of paper and
looking - you know - naturally enough he had alot on his mind
but Garret had a way of not exuding calm. 1 advanced across
the room, and 1 said 'helio Garret' and he said 'helio Gemma
oh yes, you know what I'm going to give you'. 1 said no and
he said education. 1 sat down quickly at that stage as it carne
as a terrible shock to me beca use 1 realised fully that education
was a minefield.
1 was enormously flattered because 1 considered it to be
terribly important and 1 was extremely flattered, He went on
to talk about why he was giving me education. He wanted a
lot of policy reforms that he felt there was a great deal to be
done in education and the education system need a lot of shak-
ing up and he felt that 1 would have the energy and the ideas
that he would agree with to do that. It lasted about two and
a half minutes and 1 staggered out again .
What was your first introduction to the Department?
1 went in the next morning to Marlborough street where
1 had never been in my life in this large rickety old Mercedes
driven by somebody who was a perfect stranger to me but it
was just as well that he was driving me as 1 would not have
known how to find the place. So 1 went in and Liam Lane
(the secretary of the Department) was waiting down stairs in
~e .:.2.-~~2.1:':: rather crlapicz ..ec :-~r..g. He broughr me
upstairs to sorne nice room and he called in al! the assistant
secretaries.
1 simply recal! feeling very timid and somewhat dismayed
by finding myself with what seemed to me be these slightly
elderly men with impenetrable Irish names.
Did you have any c1ear idea of what you wanted to do as
Minister for Education or did your ideas simply evolve as you
got into the job?
1 did know a bit about education having represented the
NUI in the Senate and then one of the first things 1 did was
invite Dr. John Harris who was principIe ofNewpark compre-
hensive and an expert on curriculum reform to come in as an
advisor and he said he would.
Quite early on in my first year 1 sat down with John and
sorne of the assistance secretaries to plan what we were going
'to do over a four year periodo We embarked on an enormous
consultation pro ces s and by the end of the year we produced
the action programme on education.
To what extent was the cabinet involved in the action pr-
gramme?
The action programme was drawn up within the Depart-
ment of Education and then it went to the cabinet, which had
already been sentisised to education issues because two days
aftr 1 was appointed. 1 was in the midst of a major controversy
over the school transport charges.
How many ministers would actually have read the bulky
cocumentation your department would have prepared on the
action programme?
1 would say that Garret would have read it, John Bruton
would have read it . Certainly sorne of the labour ministers
would have read itas would have John Boland.
Was there a long discussion on it?
Very long. We had several meetings because several min-
isters put in suggested amendments and what we tried to do
then was accommodate as far as possible these views. There
was a very full discussion about it all, especially as everyone
considers thernselves an expert on education and there is then,
of course, the Minister for Finance who plays a defensive role
in many of these consultations because of the financial impli-
cations there my be involved.
Anyhow it was a long protracted difficult discussion and
1 felt that when 1 got that action programme through that the
whole education world should be down on their knees thanking
me but 1 suppose anyone who expects thanks from the edu-
cation world was dreaming as 1 quickly learned. Anyhow that
was how 1 approached the first year it was an enormous learn-
ing process of establishing priorities side by side with the crisis
that 1 was dealing with every day of the week, school transport
charges and the devil knows what else.
One of the things about the system of government in this
country is that ministers are real!y overwhelmed with work
and it does lead to inefficiency of government.
Is that not because of the inefficency of ministers?
No, no. It is because the ministers have their constituency
and when you are a minister your constituency expects to see
more of you not less because you are very important to them
. You are their minister , the organisation all across whatever
constituency you come from has worked and slaved for you
and now you have been made a minister and you owe a lot
od debts to your constituency organisation.
It was all very well beca use Wicklow wasn't all that far .
away but for col!eagues from Mayo or Kerry or whatever -
the demands of the constituency were and are enormous and
the constituency officials don't want to hear about delegation.
They want to see you.
1 remember having a conversation once with Keith Joseph
at Oxford university when we were joint!y launching a course
in Anglo Irish studies and he had come from Leeds on a train
that day and 1 had flown over from Dublin and so 1 said to
him how much time do you spend in Leeds . Oh he said, 30
years ago when he was adopted as a conservative candidate
for Leeds north he undertook that he would be in the constitu-
ency once a month and he had faithfully stuck to that and
had never let them down.
So that there is the constituency demands which are enor-
mous. There are then cabinet meetings where they might be
12, 14, 18 items on an agenda. Each one with its big mem-
orandum and observations . You read what you considered
the most important things on the agenda. You really didn't
read the rest, you couldn't.
The third thing that ministers have to do particularly min-'
isters in something like education is to attend at functions to
do with your brief all over the country. School openings, di s-
cussions, seminars, annual conferences the whole thing. So you
are on the road a lot of the time and all of that milita tes against
efficiency and good government beca use most ministers spend
a lot of the time being too tired or too addled to do their work
properly so that is not a good thing.
That rnay not be all the problern. Were cabinet rneetings,
for instance, efficently ron?
1 think that Garret was a great believer in discussion he
was extremely patient in listening to people - he liked to do
a fair amount of talking himself but he did encourage ministers
to contribute and if anyone wanted to contribute Garret would
never stop them and perhaps we could have done with a bit
more stopping . 1 still think that it is preferable to a boss chop-
ping you up and not allowing you to say anything and
announcing that this is the decision 1 think it is better to have
discussions. . rities were not established at the outset and that, as a resuIt,
Fifteen people around atable discussing an issue.
You never have 15. The most you ha ve would be 3 of 4
unless it was something like the Anglo Irish Agreement or the
budget or estima tes but on the whole on particular areas you
would not have 15 people discussing it you would have three
or four.
Would you all be sitting there while the three or four got
on with the discussion. ?
Sometimes. You might well go out to the ante room and
make 2 or 3 phone calls to your Department and find out what
is the latest crisis that was impending when you left the office
that morning, or take sorne messages or run across the corridor
to the comrnunications room where your private secretary
might ha ve come up with something or you might simply make
your self a cup of tea in the tea room and sit down and drink
it out of sheer exhaustion .
y ou give the irnpression that cabinet rneetings went on inde-
finitely. .
They were long.
Meetings lasting several days on sorne occasions?
They were rarely several day meetings . Oh! 1 think we had
about three sessions in Barretstown Castle over the years and
then we had sorne weekend s sessions in Merrion Street.
Another irnpression one had of that government is that pro-
you were easily blown off course.
Well 1 think that is a very rash judgement, 1 think what
we wanted to be about was , we wanted to put a stop to what
we saw was the out of control financial problem ofthe country.
We were all at one on that , we were also fair1y strong on
social issues trying to get sorne movement on the are a of the
kind of thing like contraception , divorce - those areas. We
were fair1y keen on shaking up if you like trying to bring in
reform and movement into the areas where it was needed like
education because we felt that Fianna Fail is a very conserva-
tive party and doesn't really reform very much , nothing has
happened in education since March '87.
There was a keenness to reform and modernise and of
course Garret quite quickly along with Peter Barry and Dick
Spring imbued us all with a very strong desire to make move-
ment on Northern Ireland because of the appalling situation
that existed then and that became a very motivating force as
well . We were all fair1y united in the wishes to do those things
On the subject of reform, one thing that was not done was
either to reform the social welCare system or to reCorm the dis-
tribution of wealth in our society. You were had responsibility
in these areas and you were minister for Social WelCare when
the Commission on Social WelCare reported.
1 was excoriated for what was described at best as a luke
warm reception for the commission's report and at worst 1
was described as rejecting it out of hand. 1don't think 1rejected
it out of hand it is an enormous report, the great problem was
that it carried an enormous price tag to try and do much about
it, what we tried to do we had done we had increased the social
welfare rates steadily each year. We had nothing to blame our-
selves for in that respect, they had been increased way beyond
the rate of inflation .
How can you claim credit for maintaining a social welCare
level of payments which are far below the subsistence level?
1am not claiming credit for it at al\. All I'm saying is that
we kept payments ahead of inflation and we did that during
a time of very severe financial constraints. Nobody is claiming
that the social welfare system is adequate for people living on
very low incomes. The whole social welfare system needs to
be changed anyway 1 think everybody would accept that the
problem is that it needs a very radical change.
The system may need to be changed but the pressing require-
ment is to give people on unemployment benefit, for instance,
a subsistence income. You don't have to await major structural
change in the system for that.
1 accept fully what you are saying except that it couldn't
be done, simply, could not be done, and is still not being done.
While we have a social welfare system that is so inefficient with
dealing with the real poverty then there will continue to be
a problem of inadequate resources to deal with the subsistence
problem.
One of the highlights -iC that is the word - of your own
period in office concerns the reshuffle in February 1986, when
you were moved from Education to Social WelCare. There was
talk that you were to be moved to the Deprtment of Foreign
Affairs, in charge of relations with Europe, when did you disco ver
that that was not going to happen.
Garret had made it clear that there was a cabinet reshuffle
on the way and it was apparent from what he had said publicly
that this was going to involve me. 1 did have discussions with
him about moving to the Department of Foreign Affairs and
1 was very much looking forward to that challenge.
Well it was the next moming really when 1 carne back in
to the Dail there were rumours f1yingabout that problems had
arisen . 1 suppose 1 didn't really know until lunch time that
day 1 think the plan had been changed and then Garret called
me down and said that the thing had been changed and this
did come as a shock to me. 1 think that there was nobody
under any illusion as to what had happened. Again you know
you have to get fair1y philosophical about those things.
Did you feel that he had let you down?
1 felt that to a certain extent, yea! 1 did feel that, but then
1 did appreciate that he had severe problems and 1 also felt
1 did and still do believe that it is your job to support the Taoi-
seach. 1 had a very strong sense of loyalty and to Garret per-
sonally and to him as Taoiseach.
Were you personally very close to Garret?
Funny enough people always thought that 1 was. 1 wasn't
really, We happened to agree on a lot of things but socially
we weren't pals or didn't socialize together or anything like
that.
Have you never been to his house, for instance, on a social
occasion?
Oh no, not nevero 1 have been on a couple of occasions
but very few occasions. He would have been on rare occasions
to our house. 1 went on holiday with Garret and loan once,
Derry and 1 went and they had a house down in the south
of Franee, we drove with them down to it. He was very relaxed
and good fun on holidays as was Joan., loan was remarkable
really considering her disability how she could get around and
everything and of course the relationship between Garret and
loan is an endless fascination to everybody.
At the time of the cabinet reshffle did you feel particularly
bruised because you knew garret on a social basis?
1 felt as 1 did say to you earlier on 1 felt let down but again
you pick yourself up and 1 knew that Garret was very regretful
because 1 did feel let down and 1 knew that he regretted that.
1 also pointed out to him that social welfare was an area of
great difficultly and that if he felt that he was going to help
.me by moving me to social welfare he was wrong.
Why did he not simply leave you in education at the time
when the move to Foreign Affairs was no longer on.
Well 1 think he had certain pieces on a board that he was
moving and it was all going to be in a eertain pattem and 1
think that sorne of the bits fell out .
Basically, one of the problems was that Barry Desmond
would not move from health.
Well I'm not going to go into all that, but 1 think that sorne
of the pattern did not work out as it should.
But why should Barry Desmond's refusal to leave health hve
made any difference to the proposal to move you to Foreign
affairs?
Well that is a good question and 1 don't know the answer
to it. Why that particular1y ended as it did 1 just don't know.
1 didn't sit down with Garret and have long chats about what
exactly had happened.
Garret said in justification of all this, as though in the Inspec-
tor CIouseau mould every move had been carefully planned, that
he wanted you in Social Welfare to enact the radical reforms
that were needed in that area and which would be given added
urgency by the impending publication of the report of the Com-
mision on Social Welfare. But of course none of this happened.
Well 1 think that he perhaps hadn't been aware of what
the commission was going to come out with. He certainly had
a great belief in my powers of reform and bringing new think-
ing to bear 1 was in social welfare for a very short time and
the second half of that year if you recall was a difficult second
half with crisis after the other. There wasn't much time to
embark on really what you would need a good four or five
year to make any dent onit. 1 think that he generally did feel
that something could be achieved in that respecto
What do you think you could have achieved had you been
aUowed to stay on in education that hs not since been done?
1 would have made the curriculum board a statutory board
and that would have been very important. 1 would also have
pushed far stronger on the sexism in education issue.
Paddy Cooney, you irnmediate successor, wasn't very
interested in the sexist issue apparently.?
Neither is Mary O Rourke.
Feminism is not strong apparently in Athlone.
No. Athlone is not a hotbed of feminismo
What was Garret like as Taoiseach?
We all liked and respected him enormously and respected
his ideological honesty he was and is a person of absolute integ-
rity - he was straight down the middle he was not dishonest
in any way. He dealt with you straight and was an absolute
work-alcoholic he taxed himself far too mucho We felt that
he undertook far too much personally and didn't leave himself
time to work out things enough and was constantly trying to
catch up with himself. We all did try alot and 1 did try alot
to organise his time better and take more time off. Even when
Garret would be on holiday, Garret's idea of relaxation would
be delving into how Irish was spoken in the 17th and 18th
century and where it was spoken and the % increase or
decrease and that was Garret's idea of re1axation, so 1 suppose
we were really whistling into the wind trying to get him to
change his style.
He had an undoubted amazing grasp of the detai1 of most
of the briefs around the cabinet table.
Did you feel that he got lost in the Anglo-Irish business.
1 think that was his central interest and the Anglo Irish
Agreement was an immense achievement and a very exciting
time for us in cabinet dealing with it. Dea1ing with the docu-
ments coming back and dealing with the phrases that were
going to be taken out or put in or dealing with the concept
'and the reported back how negotiations were going and it was
a most exciting time and we all felt and 1 mean 1 certainly
felt that 1 was involved with something very historie for the
country, very good for the country and that was a very good
time worthwhi1e time.
One thing that 1 would hate to come across was that 1 was
going around and hating every minute of it for the four years.
That was not the case at all it was highly pressurized and very
difficult but at the same time it was an amazing and stimulating
challenge the whole time and looking back 1 would say that
1 really enjoyed the stimulus and the challenge of being ab1e
to move the education system and being part of a Government
which was going forward on sorne very difficult areas. 1 was
delighted that we undertook the divorce referendum as i said
to you 1 will always will be very glad that 1 had a role what
ever kind of role it was, in the Anglo Irish Agreement.
Going back to your initial interest in politics, the feminist
cause, do you think now that the pollitical process is as hostile
to women as you had initiaUy thought?
They are still fairly hostile to women but any situation
where one very distinct group is in such a tiny minority as
we are in politics you are bound to hove a slightly hostile
environment. It has changed considerably thank God.
Were you in any way disadvantaged in being a woman when
you were at cabinet meetings for instance?
It certainly made a difference, 1 feeel. After all, here I was
the only woman in the company of 16 men (my cabinet col-
leagues, plus the Attomey General and the Secetary to the
government) whom I didn't know very well fighting my comer
and, inevitably, there were certain inhibitions.
I remember at an eariy stage one of my colleagues when
I had started to put forward a particular point of view that
I had, he said after wards God! you were very aggressive. I
remembered saying to him that word aggressive would you
use that about one of our male colIeagues would you use the
work incisive or whatever. I was conscious that a woman in
that kind of situation is not expected to be strong and forcefulI
and all those things which meant that you get called a battle-
axe.
Were you called a batle axe?
No not to my face, but I'm quite sure that on occasion
that might have thought that I was, but again that word battle
axe strikes me as being the epitome of a word which is used
about women and not men.
There was the Thatcher analogy that was always thrown
up because she was Minister for Education at roughly the ,same
age that I was Minister for Education and she was known as
Margaret Thatcher the milk snatcher. I was the worst in the
worid for bringing in school transport charges.
So you were conscious of the general public you see being
the only woman in the cabinet and coming as I carne from
the woman's movement women , whether you liked it or not,
you were a sort of a role model and you were sorne one there
that the female half of the electorate were looking at in one
way. You would be on television and YOy would have a right
old rumpus with Pat Kenny or Olivia or somebody. People
would say I saw you on television last night and I would say
did I get the point across and she would say, well! I don't know
what you said but I thought that the blouse was lovely, or
your hair looked lovely - they weren't really listening to what
you were saying.
You were conscious of a big responsibility that if you were
going to make a mess of something that there was another
element in the condemnation which would be here is a woman
making a mess of something and various people saying behind
their hands that women are up to it really, that kind of thing
you would be conscious of the whole time.
Did you find the Departrnent of Education difficult to deal
with becaue you were a wornan?
No I don't think so.
The only area where I would have difficulty would have
been programmes for the elimination of sexismoMost of those
people were men they wouldn't understand what you are talk-
ing about realIy. In inisted thattheere would be speciallectures
on sexism in education at inspectors conferences and at inspec-
tors training courses. Many people in the Department did not
see the need for this, I think.
Neither did they understand why I wanted to change the
marking system in examinations so that the people marking
the examination would not know whether it was a giri or boy
they were marking fOL Research had shown that there were
different perceptions and so it turned out to be quite simple
to change the marking system but I met with resistance there.
Once that you had established that you had a clear view and
you wanted to do something I think they quickly got over any
inhibitions they had in dealing with me because I was a woman.
So the hostility wasn't that much, just a few sexist remarks
now and then,
I suppose in many ways Garret might have led the field
in the attitude of thecabinet. I remember one thing that
summed it up we were having a discussion about sorne element
of budgetary problems and the question carne up about the
price of a pound of rashers and one or two tumed to me and
said Gemma what is the price of a pound of rashers and Garret
before I could open my mouth to reply, Garret said gentlemen
why would you be asking Gemma Hussey who is sitting around
this cabinet table just as much as any of you are who is doing
her work just the same as you are why would she any more
about the price of a pound of rashers any more than any of
you do?
How about sexism in the Dail?
It surfaces from time to time.
I remember being called a vixen across the floor of the
house by sorne Fianna Fail back bencher and I remember
Haughey at one stage when he was leader of the opposition
and using a phrase like 'this unfortunate little woman'. That
sort of thing, but I mean Irish society is deeply sexist and if
it didn't surface in the Dail it would be very surprising.
You also get situation in here where i.e. if I were siting
having a cup of coffee with Monica or Nuala or Mary Harney
or whoever a group of us aman would pass by and say God!
what are you women plotting. It has never stuck them that
since time memorial groups of men have been sitting together
and nobody has ever ever thought that they were plotting.
One of the things that might be said about you now is that
you don't have the persistence and resilience to stick it out in
politics to go on fighting for wornen's rights for there is still
a long way to go on that front. Sorne people rnight almost infer
that your quitting shows that wornen don't have what it takes.
Well I have done that fight for 12 years and I think that
is long enough for me I think that I would like to move into
other areas. I might welI fight for women's rights and all sorts
of things in another persona.
Is this not being a quitter?
I don't know maybe it is , maybe that is what people think.
I personally don't think that way I think that it might be quite
a healthy thing if people would move in and out of politics
and I don't see why people should be in politics for the rest
of their lives.
 PLAYBOY INTERVIEW:
A candid conversation about tragedy and terrorisrn in Northern Ireland with
anonyrnous soldier of the IRA and two leaders of the cause.
Belfast: When we think of the embattled
Catholic ghettoes, the images that come
to mind are of gritty streets strewn with
burned-out cars, walls scribbled with graf-
fiti that proclaim IRA Forever and Brits
Go Home. Now and then, we see pictures
of young British soldiers on patrol, look-
ing by turns terrified and ominous.
Then there are perhaps the most
tragic visions: the innocent victims, the
random casualties of the war. Children on
their way home from school, or mailmen
or housewives, or passers-by unfortunate
enough to have met a stray bullet or
walked past a parked car at the wrong
time. And, always, the funeral rites: the
armed and hooded Irish Republican Army
men ritually burying their dead; the uni-
formed British soldiers shipping off
another coffin to England.
The Irish, with weary cynicism, refer
to the 800 years of conflict with England
simply as "the troubles". England,for rea-
sons as obscure as the rules of cricket, has
reservedfor that small island a special ten-
acity and savagery. In no other place in
the once-glorious British Empire have the
inhabitants been subjugated for so long,
or so fiercely, Nor, of course, has there
been any other place where the populace
has been in such continuous rebellion
against "the Crown". The American Rev-
olution against England came 600 years
after the Irish began their rebellion
against the English.
The IRA, formed in 1919, is only
the latest of a series of paramilitary
groups spawned during the centuries of
Irisli rebellion. It was from the start the
clandcstine military arm of the Sinn Fein
("shin fane") party, whose agenda then
was the same as it is now: to end British
occupation and reunify Ireland.
It was not until 1921 that the IRA
finally prevailed over the English troops
to establish the Irish Free State in the
southern portion of the island. And it was
not until 1948 that the Irish Republic was
completely free of English domination -
or at least as free as its proximity to Bri-
tain across the Irish Sea would allow.
What England has steadfastly
refused to allow is the joining of the six
northern counties of Ireland - with Brit-
ish majorities - and the Irish Republic.
Historically the most rebellious, those
counties were populated by Scottish and
English Protestants in the 16th Century.
Today, that area is considered by the Brit-
ishgovernment to be an integral part of
Great Britain, and a majority ofits inhabi-
tants consider themselves British.
The la test phase of this war began
in the early Sixties, when the IRA
launched a series of border raids against
British military installations. Then, in the
late Sixties, there was a brief era in which
a civil rights movement, fashioned after
the non-violent approach of Martin
Luther King, Ir, struggled to take hold.
It ended dismally on January 30, 1972,
when the Britisli army fired into a crowd
of several thousand protesters, killing 13.
The events of Bloody Sunday, as it is
remembered in Northern Ireland, ended
any hopes for peaceful negotiation. By the
Seventies, the war was back - and
violento
A series of deadly IRA counter-
offensive bombings occurred throughout
Ireland and England. One of the most dev-
astating to English morale was the assas-
sination in 1979 of Earl Mountbatten, last
viceroy of India and revered British hero,
as well as Queen Elizabeth's uncle. He and
three others were killed by a bomb planted
aboard his yacht by the IRA. Then, in
December of 1983, during the height of
the Christmas-shopping period, the IRA
set off a bomb at Harrod's department
store in London's Knightsbridge district,
killing six. Finally, in 1984, a bomb blast
at the Grand Hotel in Brighton nearly suc-
ceeded in killing Prime Minister Margaret
Thatcher and most of her cabinet. It was
Thatcher, of course, who refused to con-
sider the demands of IRA member Bobby
Sands and others who went on a hunger
strike in Belfast's Long Kesh prison; ten
of them, including Sands, starved them-
selves to death. Recently, the IRA has
rnounted attacks against British military
installations, resulting in the deaths of sev-
eral British soldiers.
Not surprisingly, there have been
reprisals. The Protestant equivalent of the
IRA - the Ulster Defense Association -
has engaged in car bombings and assassi-
nations of Catholics in their neighbour-
hoods. The list of victims, while not as long
as the IRA 's, is, nonetheless, horrifying,
Allegedly, the British army and the Ulster
police have also struck back, killing a
number of suspected IRA members. Last
spring, three unarmed IRA "volunteers''
were killed in Gibraltar by an elite British
commando unit on the grounds that a car
bomb was being readied by the IRA.
To get afix on this seemingly intrac-
table war, Playboy sent Morgan Strong
to Belfast to interview some of the prin-
cipals of the conflicto Strong, whose inter-
pletely gray and his face lined.
"Adams, on the other hand, is
quietly analytical. His voice rarely rises
view with Yasir Arafat appeared in
Playboy's September 1988 issue, had the
proper background to conduct a danger-
ous and, if need be, secret interview. His
report:
"The Aer Lingus flight to Dublin
was filled witli American-Irish tourists
going back to the fabled old sod of their
parents or grandparents. They seemed
intent only on a good, sentimental time.
Irish-eyes-are-smiling tunes were appar-
ently the only choice on the in-jlight head-
sets. There was no talk of politics, no talk
of death or vengeance.
"As I approached the border, large
yellow signs began about a mile from it,
advising drivers that a caution area was
coming up and not to stop the car under
any circumstances. Heavily armed British .
soldiers lined the road, restlessly pacing
the row of cars stopped at the border.
"As I crossed the border , I entered
a large structure, and there were soldiers
on each side of the caro A soldier stopped
each car, questioned the driver and pol-
itely requested identification. There were
barriers and ramps everywhere. As I
exited, 1 got the sense of having passed
through a decompression chamber.
"Belfast is only sixty or so miles
from the border, and along the way, 1 was
stopped at three more check points, this
time by members of the Royal Ulster Con-
stabulary carrying shotguns and auto-
matic weapons.
"The sign before the city of Belfast
has an arrow pointing towards the Falls
section, but it is all but obscured by graf-
fiti proclaiming it provo country - the
name taken by IRA soldiers. The hotel 1
stayed at in downtown Belfast was a vir-
tual [ortress, ringed by a ten-foot-high
steel fence. Cars were stopped and
searched before being allowed in the hotel
parking loto
"The next morning, I set off for the
Falls to meet Danny Morrison and Gerry
Adams. The two subjects of our interview
who can be identified, Morrison, thirty-
five, and Adams,forty, are leaders of Sinn
Fein, the legal political party closely asso-
ciated with the illegallRA. Both men ha ve
been active opponents of British rule since
their teens. Both survived repeated
attempts at assassination and both served
years in Long Kesh prison.
"They also hold public office as elec-
ted members of the Ulster Parliament -
akin to an American state senator or rep-
resentative. In addition, Adams now rep-
resents his largely Catholic constituency
in the British Parliament at Wstminster
-s-akin to being a US Senator or Rep-
resentative - though he refuses to take
his seat there. Both are spokesmen for
Sinn Fein.
"Morrison is an effusive sort, given
to sudden flights of irony as he describes
the situation in Belfast .He is only in his
thirties, but the years in Belfast and in pri-
son have taken their toll; His hair is com-
above the barely audible. Unlike Morri-
son, he will pause and take a puff from
his pipe before responding. He hardly pro-
jects the expected haunted air of aman
who received four bullet wounds just a
short time ago.
"As to my conversations with the
IRA provo, 1cannot report where we met;
indeed, 1 do not know the location. But
I can say that if we had been discovered
by British troops, I might have been writ-
ing this in Long Kesh prison. Under Brit-
ish law, it can be illegal to interview a
member of the IRA.
"One last note: We tried to get a
representative of the British government
to participa te in this interview, but all
requests were declined. The secretary of
state for Northern Ireland, Tom King,
first accepted, then refused, on the
grounds that he was too busy."
PLA YBOY: Both of you hold public
offices recognised by the British govern-
ment: Mr Morrison, asa leader of Sinn
Fein - often referred to as the legal pol-
itical wing of the iIIegal IRA - and Mr
Adams, as an elected member of Parlia-
ment from Northern Ireland, But you're
still subject to arrest, aren't yo u?
MORRISON: Yes, I get arrested regu-
larly on the f1imsiest of excuses. Last
year, I was stopped at the border,
arrested and taken into a British arrny
barracks. They put me in a cell and took
my shoes and socks, my tie, watch and
all. Then they brought in the British
army brass to have a good look and a
laugh.
They also tried to kili me and my
wife on Christmas Eve 1987. We were
walking down the street ano a guy pulled
a gun and tried to kili uso He missed; he
fired three or four times, I took off. I'm
a good sprinter and he couldn't hit me.
PLA YBOY: Mr Adams, you weren't so
lucky. You were shot and nearly killed.
ADAMS: Let me comment on the asso-
ciation of the IRA and Sinn Fein. There
is no organic association. We are both
engaged in the same struggle, of course.
As for the shooting, I always thought
that was a set-up.
PLA YBOY: Why?
ADAMS: The men who did the shooting
were members of the VIs ter Defense
Association (VDA, the Protestant coun-
terpart to the IRA). But I was leaving
the Belfast court, where I had been called
to answer a very f1imsy charge, later dis-
missed. You're relatively safe in such
areas in the Irish community, but to go
downtown Belfast for me is dangerous.
My appearance in court had been well
advertised by the poIice. I think it was
too much of a coincidence that the
people who shot me were just passing by.
MORRISON: There's a 10t of collabora-
tion between the poIice and the (Prot-
estant pro-British) loyalist hit teams. For
instance, I can't park my car outside my
house. because theyll know that I'm at way. It's a colonial struggle: There is a ADAMS: The Catholic bishop of this
home. So 1 have to move it about, try government from a neighbouring power diocese told the people that it would be
ro hide it somewhere. 1 put it up the that claims jurisdiction and sovereignty a mortal sin if they voted for Sinn Fein.
street or on the next street. Some time over another. There are some people who PLAYBOY: What effect has that had
ago, the police visited five houses my car in return for their loyalty are given privi- within the community?
had been parked in front of. They'lI lege. We have no interest in a Protestant MORRISON: None. The people take
interrgate the people. "Where did he go, Ireland or a Catholic Ireland, just one their politics from home and their
the man who parked the car?" they asked Ireland. religious from Rome.
a five-year-old child. The police pass on PLAYBOY: Are there any Protestants PLAYBOY: This was has been fought
this information to the loyalists, and in Sinn Fein or the IRA? for eight hundred years. After all this
they'lI loo k to kili me. MORRISON: Not many, but there are time, why do you think the British
PLAYBOY: Does either of you know a few. There are people in this office haven't just said, "Enough!"?
how many IRA provos (soldiers) there (Sinn Fein headquarters) who are Prot- MORRISON: You see, the British, for
are? We've heard as few as two hundred. estant. They can't go home again, but all their allegedly enlightened views, will
MORRISON: 1 don't know how many they're here. never admit to racism or chauvinism or
people are in the IRA. But 1 do know PLAYBOY: How does the Catholic jingoism. They pretend to be the mother
the Brits have been jailing two hundred Church regard the conflict? of parliaments, they pretend they are
ayear for the past nineteen years and MORRISON: The Catholic Church is really missionaries, and anything they
the number of volunteers hasn't gone opposed to Sinn Fein and the IRA. The ever did was for the good of mankind.
down. Pope condemned the IRA when he came But it was in their own interests that they
PLAYBOY: There's a constant two hun- to Ireland. forcefully colonised half the world. The
dred, you mean?
MORRISON: Then you know? Somebo-
dy's been telling you lies (laughs).
PLA YBOY: Have the British been effec-
tive?
MORRISON: (Heatedly). What right
has Britain to be here? What right has she
to kili people? None at all! And the rea-
son the IRA exists is beca use people are
frustrated. There is an efficacy about the
IRA. That is, it's going to bring about
a political change. The British govern-
ment is saying, "We'lI never give in to
the IRA." But the facts are that a num-
ber of the reforms that have taken place
are the result of reaction to the IRA.
It's a trade-off trying to buy off the
insurgents, but it hasn't worked, because
people are intelligent and they ha ve aspi-
rations to be free of Britain. And the fact
is, the British are down in the gutter in
Ireland. It's a dirty war, and their brutal
methods have been more exposed for
repression and the use of force, and mur-
der. And we're not prepared to hold with
that.
PLAYBOY: You use the term repub-
lican and loyalist, not Catholic and Prot-
estat, as we generally hear them.Is this
a religious conflict? .
MORRISON: No, it's a political con-
flict. It's a mistake to consider it a
religious conflict. 1 use political terms
rather than Catholics may have loyalist
aspirations, and want to remain a pan
of England, and some Protestants may
have republican ambitions to join the
Irish Free State.
It suits the British to say it's a
religious squabble. They can claim
they're keeping two warring religious
communities aparto It also suits the
police to claim that when one of their
supporters is killed, it's genocide. But
we've had police killed who were mem-
bers of the Catholic faith. The IRA and
Sinn Fein are secular organisations.
ADAMS: There is no truth at all to the
struggle's being religious. It's not over
whether one worships a god in a certain

32 M A GIL L March 1989

white rnan's burden was the excuse they
used in Victorian times. But in reality,
the Brits are racist, especially toward the
Irish.
We want to live in peace; we want
to get on with our lives. We want the
same joys and comforts as other people.
We don't want to be shot by the Brits
or go to jail. We want to know that our
children won't be harmed. That's the
worst fear - that my children are going
to get hurt.
PLA YBOY: Everybody's home gets
raided. That's taken for granted. There
was a British army fort about four hun-
dred yards from here. One night, the
loyalists broke into a nearby home to kili
aman. The man wasn't there, but his
sixteen-year-old son was sitting on the
sofa. They just aimed the gun at him,
and it misfired; three times it misfired.
Then they ran out. He was totally inno-
cent. But the thing is, they felt such con-
fidence that they wouldn't be arrested,
they could break into ahorne only yards
away from a British fort. And the British
troops are here to protect us!
PLA YBOY: There are charges that Sinn
Fein is Marxist-Leninist. What is the pol-
itical philosophy of Sinn Fein?
ADAMS: Sinn Fein is not Marxist. Sinn
Fein stands for the right of the Irish
people to govern themselves. We want
democracy. We believe there needs to be
a redistribution of Irish wealth. We
believe that the one third of our people
who are living in poverty has to be
reversed. We believe that a system of
socialism in Ireland should be tailored
to meet Irish needs. A system of equality,
of justice, should be established.
MORRISON: Sinn Fein would like the
whole of Ireland united in a democratic-
socialist republic. Now, having been to
the States, 1 know immediately what
people think when they hear "socialist".
Even Irish-Arnericans demand sorne
explanation. 1 explain it this way: If
you've grown up in the environment that
we've grown up in, you would probably
be expressing a similar point of view.
And if 1 had grown up in Boston or the
Bronx, 1 would hold to your views. Sinn
Fein supports a democratic national
government supported by all of the
people of Ireland. We will agitate for
socialism and try to make our case. If
we don't win, we'lIlive with the outcome.
PLAYBOY: And what would the well-
armed IRA do then?
MORRISON: The armed struggle is
morally justifiable only while Ireland is
partitioned by the British. Once the art-
ificial division is removed, armed
resistance is finished.
PLAYBOY: Since the Republic of Ire-
land also is Catholic and also fought the
British, why isn't it more supportive of
you? Instead, there is friction between
you.
MORRISON: Ves; but that's understan-
dable. Because of the border, there is a
difference in the development between
the north and the south - between our
economies, for instance - which can
cause friction.
ADAMS: The people of Ireland support
us, but the economy of the south is in
terrible shape. It's in bad shape because
it suits a small dique aligned with British
economic interests. As an island, we have
no mari time fleet!
Sometimes, when you hear the term
United Ireland, it conjures up just an
amalgamation of the six counties of
UIster and the twenty-six counties of Ire-
land. But that's not our view of it. There
would be a new Ireland, a new society,
a new constitution. The only real friction
that exists is with people who are now
loyalists. But there is no friction between
the north and the south, there's no
debate there.
PLAYBOY: Aren't you being unrealistic
about unification? There are drama tic
political and social differences between
you. For instance, in Ireland, divorce
and abortion are forbidden. It's a puri-
tanical society. Since you and your sup-
porters have lived under British rule -
which at least in these regards is more
liberal- how could you expect the two
peoples to unify?
ADAMS: Well, the ethos in Ireland is
actually more liberal, though the laws are
more puritanical. But the ethos in the
north is much more puritanical, though
the laws are more liberal.
PLAYBOY: What do you mean?
ADAMS: Northern Ireland is affected by
partition in a much more visible way.
Just walk out into the street there and
you can see all the military, the troops
 uta, partition is became more aware. 1 looked up to the
.3. There you have older people in the IRA.
~ ~oyemmems, one after the PLAYBOY: Was it hero worship?
Catholic hierarchial ethos. IRA PROVO: Wel1, they would talk to
AlI of that would change. What the me about politics 1 didn't understand
south needs is a good injection of north- ful1y. But 1 knew, in my heart, that what
em radicalism! 1 was doing was right. What 1 saw in the
PL\. YBOY: Isn't that precisely what streets - the British arrny and the police
they're trying to avoid? Isn't that why had no right to be here. They said they
they see you as radicals rather than com- were here to protect USoBut what 1 saw
patriots? was that they were not here for USo
ADAMS: Wel1, look here: On the issue I had members of my own farnily
of abortion, most of the Irish people end up in prison. 1 had an older brother
north and south oppose it as a method who was constantly harassed by the Brit-
of birth control. And despite the appal- ish arrny. He received a number ofheavy
ling results of the divorce referendum beatings in the barracks. He ended up
he Id in the south, you can see changes being sentenced to a term in prison for
beginning. Because divorce is a basic civil being in the IRA. That made me want
right. The values the Irish have are not to join, made me want to resist British
Irish values; they are Victorian values, rule.
imported by the British. Historical1y - PLAYBOY: You knew you weren'tjoin-
1 mean before the invasions - there was ing the boy scouts; but did you know
the right to divorce. In fact, women had how harsh the IRA life would turn out
the right to divorce; women were equal. to be?
And there was no feudal system, there IRA PROVO: When 1 found myself in
was common ownership. prison, 1 wasn't too pleased about it. 1
PLAYBOY: Nonetheless, there is no was just seventeen; it was something 1
ground swel1 for unification in Ireland had hoped never to experience. When 1
itself. was in prison, 1 was with hundreds of
MORRISON: Despite apprehensions, people who were there for the same rea-
most of the people in the south do sup- son 1 was. 1 then began to develop poI-
port reunification. It's part of the consti- itical1y.
tution of the Irish Republic, and the PLAYBOY: Stil1, you were among sorne
major political parties support the idea hard cases. Could you real1y develop
of Irish reunificaton - with consent of freely?
the majority of the people in the north. IRA PROVO: 1 spent, real1y, most ofmy
It is true that many people in the adult life in prison. By the time 1 was
south have understandable fears. Sinn released, 1 was convinced that what 1 was
Fein is banned from TV in the south. doing was right. 1 had no regrets then
We can't make our case. And they and I have none now. 1 don't regret going
haven't seen a British soldier in sixty to prison. In fact, in sorne ways, I'm glad
years. So they find it difficult to under- 1 was in prison. Prison, from my experi-
stand why a young person in Belfast ence, brings out the best in people. Of
would lift a gun to kill a British soldier. course, it also brings out the worst.
(Playboy's interviewer rnet separ- PLA YBOY: How does it make you feel
ately with a provo 01 the IRA on two today to be takng someone's life,
occasions at a clandestine location in whether that of a British soldier or of
Northern Ireland. The provo 's identity a Protestant who opposes the IRA?
was never revealed. Sorne 01 the biogra- IRA PROVO: 1 have now been involved
phical data was altered to protect his for a nurnber of years with the IRA,
identity). . involved operational1y. I've been trained
PLAYBOY: You are a provo, an active in the use of weapons and explosives -
soldier of the IRA. What made you join mortars used in Belfast within the past
the IRA in the first place? couple of days. I've been in sniper
IRA PROVO: I've been involved in the attacks that ha ve taken on British patrols
struggle from a very early age, when 1 and in operations with the use of booby-
was twelve or thirteen. 1 won't be so trap mines. I've been in operations
naive as to say 1 was political1y aware involving the assassination of police, the
at that age, but 1 did know exactly what UDA and members of the British arrny
1 was doing. My involvement in the in and out of uniformo
republican movement was sort of a gut 1 mean, I've had exposure to al! the
reaction to what was happening around urban operations in which the IRA
me. To a degree, it was doing what my engages in an urban environment. And
friends were doing, joining the youth 1 can say, for myself and for others
movement of the republicans. involved in operations that resulted in
PLA YBOY: It was a rebel1ion, then? the death of enemy, we have never felt
IRA PROVO: It was a little bit of good about it. We know it's something
excitement, adventure. Youthful we have to do. Soldiers have to take life
rebel1ion, 1 suppose, is against either the - usual1y shooting someone three hun-
home or the school. Mine was against dred yards away, But here it's close-up,
the sta te. Once 1 did get involved, 1 Nobody feels joy in taking life. It's some-
thing that we have to live with.
PLA YBOY: What about the civilans
who suffer?
IRA PROVO: I'm not immune to the
suffering we've caused. As members of
the republican movement, we're al1
aware that our actions have led to death
on the enemy side. But I've seen death
on my side. I've seen the wives and
mothers and sons and daughters and
brothers of comrades on my side who
have given their lives. It's something I
have to live with.
PLAYBOY: Let's get to the IRA itself:
There are stories that it's funded by
extortion, racketeering, gunrunning and
drug sales. What do you say?
IRA PROVO: (Heatedly). Let's look at
my personal situation. 1 was arrested not
long after 1 left high school. 1 haven't
worked since; 1 have no trade or quali-
fications. I have no income, but -
PLA YBOY: Can't you col1ect unem-
ployment from the government?
IRA PROVO: Yes, but to col1ect, 1
would have to go at the sarne time every
week to sign for the cheque. That ties
me down to where my movements can
be observed. They wil1 know where 1'11
be on a specific date at a specific time.
That, for an active volunteer, is not wise.
PLAYBOY: Then how do you live with-
out an income?
IRA PROVO: 1 rely on my family - my
wife, parents, brothers and sisters. They
are the people who feed and clothe me.
1 stay in different houses, rarely the same
house two nights in a row. Sympathetic
people pro vide me with a bed. And the
IRA gives me help. They're not going
to let me starve or go without a decent
pair of shoes. If 1 were a racketeer, I'd
have a nice house, a car, nice clothes,
instead of being constantly on the runo
PLA YBOY: You've been on the run for
a long time. Whatdoes it do to you not
to have had any of the material pleasures
in life?
IRA PROVO: 1 have no desire for those
things - the cars and al1 that. But I'd
love to have a house to be with my wife
and children, to have a job and earn a
wage and provide for my family. There
is nothing worse for me than to know
that 1 can't help them. When 1 do see
my children, it breaks my heart. I know
1 cari't be with them for long. Christmas
is approaching: I'd love to be with them
for Christmas, watch thern on Christmas
morning when they get up to see what's
under the Christmas tree. To be with
them on their birthdays. To take my wife
out for dinner, to spend sorne time with
her. 1 can't do those things with my fam-
ily. It places them under immense press-
ure. 1 think they suffer more than 1 do.
PLAYBOY: In what sense?
IRA PROVO: 1 can get about these
areas. 1 can avoid the police and the Brit-
ish arrny. There are plenty of people who
willlet me slip through their house, over
their walls. But they know where my fam-
ily is. I have a record and I'm targeted.
PLA YBOY: Targeted, literally?
IRA PROVO: I was stopped recently by
an armoured caro I was surrounded by
five of them. They had rifles and side
arms and they slapped me around. Then
they said they were going to kili me, that
they were going to put one in the back
of my head. But that's a fact of life here;
that can happen to me any time.
PLA YBOY: You say you were first
arrested as a teenager and wound up
spending seven years in prison. What
was the charge?
mA PROVO: I was found in possession
of explosives and arrested under the
Emergency Provisions Act. I was caught
red-handed, so they weren't interested in
establishing guilt. They wanted to find
out where I had gotten the explosives
and what they were going to be used for.
PLA YBOY: Were you interrogated at
length?
IRA PROVO: No. IfI had been arrested
after placing the explosives, I would have
had a rough time. They would have had
to establish proofthat I had placed them.
As it was, there was no question.
PLA YBOY: Then getting caught red-
handed was to your advantage?
IRA PROVO: Yeah. I would have had
a more physical sort of interrogation
than I actually hado Smiles. But the inter-
rogation lasted for only three days. Then
I was charged and sent to Crumlin Road
prison.
PLAYBOY: What were the prison con-
ditions?
IRA PROVO: The cells were originally
designed for two. But there were three
in each cell; in sorne cases, four. It was
grossly overcrowded. We had no toilets
in the cell, just a pot, and we were
allowed to empty it twice a day. We got
out of the cells once a week for showers.
PLAYBOY: You were charged and sent
to the infamous H block. Were you ever
formally tried or sentenced by a court?
mA PROVO: I was there for almost a
year before I went to court.
PLAYBOY: Since you were caught red-
handed, we assumed you didn't mount
much of a defense.
IRA PROVO: I took no part in the pro-
ceedings .1 refused to recognise the jur-
isdiction of the court. I wasn't even
represented by a barrister. There was no
jury. There was only ajudge. I was found
guilty and sentenced to six years.
PLAYBOY: You served the entire sen-
tence. Weren't you eligible for parole?
IRA PROVO: No, because I had taken
part in the well-known blanket protesto
PLAYBOY: What was that?
IRA PROVO: When I arrived at Long
Kesh, my clothes were taken from me
and I refused to wear prison uniformo
I was put in a cell with another prisoner.
We were both naked; all we had were
two beds and three blankets each. We
wore the blankets.
PLAYBOY: How did the authorities
react?
IRA PROVO: They began to clamp
down on what privileges we hado They
began to harass uso
PLAYBOY: How?
IRA PROVO: When we went down to
empty the contents of our pots, for
instance, we'd wear towels around our
waists, and the warders, the screws,
would force prisoners to remove their
towels and they'd search them. I mean,
we were completely naked. If you
resisted, you were slapped about. Then
they refused to allow us to empty the
contents of the poto
We refused then to leave our cells
altogether, because of the harassment.
They started to use more severe punish-
ments. If you refused an order from a
warder, you ended up in the punishment
block for a minimum of three days and
a maximum of thirty. You were put on
the number-one diet - dry bread, two
cups of black tea and a bowl of soup per
day. They also had ways of stretching
your punishment-block time indefinitely.
As the pro tests went on, the warders
began collecting the contents of the pot-
ties once a day in a large barre!. They
would then take the barrel full of excre-
ment and urine to the last cell and empty
the contents into it. That meant those last
prisoners had a cell full of this. They had
to live in it.
PLA YBOY: What did you do?
IRA PROVO: We started to empty the
contents out the windows into the prison
courtyard. So the warders began to clean
the yards with high-pressure water hoses.
They had protective rubber suits and
gloves and they used to throw the excre-
ment back into the cells. And turn the
high-pressure hoses into the cells. We
then refused to wash. We had been given
a washing bowl of water a day. One for
the two of uso But it wasn't enough for
two. They removed our toothbrushes
and tooth paste from uso So we just
didn't wash any longer. Didn't brush our
teeth, wash or comb our hair. Later, they
took away our beds, too, so we slept on
the floor - little heat, the broken win-
dows letting in the rain, snow and cold
and thousands of flies and maggots.
PLAYBOY: How long did that go on?
IRA PROVO: From 1976 to 1981 -
until the beginning of the second hunger
strike. .
PLA YBOY: The hunger strike in which
IRA member Bobby Sands died?
IRA PROVO: Yes, and there were ten
who died. But we won the right not to
wear prison clothes. We could wear our
own clothes and there were other conces-
sions. But we won that right for all pol-
itical prisoners, the unionists (Protestant
militants) as well. Although we are miles
apart politically, we agree on the rights
of political prisoners.
PLA YBOY: During your long stay in
prison, how did your family survive?
IRA PROVO: In many ways, 1 was bet-
ter off than they were. I knew that no
matter how bad the day was, at the end
of it, I'd have a me al and a bed. But my
family had to provide for me. They were
in court when 1 was there and they were
constantly being harassed by the police
and the army. My home was raided .
numerous times while I was in prison
because 1 was in prison.
PLA YBOY: Why would they raid your
home? They knew where you were.
IRA PROVO: My family was targeted
as one that had to be watched. But 1 was
. in prison with many people whose fam-
ilies didn't support what they were doing,
but they stood by them and became tar-
gets for harassment because of that. It's
one of the stupid things the British
government does and can't see that it
does. By themselves, they exposed the
myth that they were the peace keepers.
People saw for themselves that all they
were interested in was putting people
down, asserting their position in this
country.
PLAYBOY: Have there been more
recruits into the IRA as a consequence?
IRA PROVO: In many ways, there have
been. Before I went to prison, when I
heard someone else had been sent to pri-
son, it strengthened my resolve. Every
time I attend a funeral of one ofmy com-
rades who has been killed, it strengthens
my resolve; I'm not going to let that per-
son down! Seeing people sacrifice their
lives for me and for our comrades and
families - I wasn't going to forget that.
PLAYBOY: You described the IRA and
its goals as noble and sacrificing; many
people see you as terrorists and crimi-
nals.
IRA PROVO: Criminals! Criminals are
in it for gain! What have I gained? How
have we profited? Why would we experi-
ence the physical and mental torrnent we
have for self-gain? I could have left the
prison protest at any time, said, "I've had
enough". I would have been allowed to
leave. There were sorne who reached the
breaking point. That's understandable.
I was just lucky to survive. The best any
of us can hope for is torture and death.
The conversation with the provo picks
up later; the interview now resumes with
Morrison and Adams).
PLAYBOY: You've talked about this as
an lrish struggle. But there is no dra-
matic demonstration of support in the
Republic of Ireland. Why?
MOR RISO N: Why? I think there is a
soullessness about the twenty-six coun-
tiesoThey don't have the moral strength
to say, "Hey, what you're doing to our
brothers and sisters in the north is
wrong, and we're going to step into the
ring and take you on!" The governrnent
in Dublin, for its own pragmatic reasons,
tends to ignore the north. They know the
British are dug in here. And they know
that if they were meaningfully to chal-
lenge the British, it would mean a big
struggle.
The south is still dominated by the
British; don't forget it wasn't until 1948
that they broke free. They are also domi-
nated economically. The British could
slap them with restrictions on trade and
with other means. So they're not really
free from the British. And they can't be
free until they are sovereign. And they
can't be until there is unification.
PLA YBOY: Why does it seem impossi-
ble to solve this dispute the way other
nations have - with eleetions, with
negotiations?
MORRISON: The British said for years,
"If Sinn Fein has support, test it at the
polls." So in 1981, we put up ror Parlia-
ment Bobby Sands, who was in prison
on a hunger strike to pro test conditions.
He won, with more votes than Thatcher
did in her constituency. The prisoners
demanded that Thatcher talk to Bobby
so their hunger strike could be ended.
She simply ignored him. He died on the
fifth of May. There was a by-election
because of his death. We put up a mern-
ber of Sinn Fein, Owen Carron, and he
won by an even larger margino Still, the
British government refused to talk.
PLA YBOY: These were elected members
of the British Parliament, but there was
no contact with them from the govern-
ment?
MORRISON: Yes, and ayear later,
there were assembly elections for North-
ern Ireland. I won in UIster, as did four
others. We were invited over to London
to discuss peace by the chairperson of
the Greater London Council - which
has since been abolished by Thatcher -
who said he wanted to see the British
people and the Irish people get together.
Gerry Adams and I were supposed to go.
The night before, the police carne to our
office here, after closing hours, and they
threw exc1usion orders through the door,
barring us from leaving the country.
PLAYBOY: We know this is serious to
you, but the impression is that there's
a level ofsophomoric behaviour and pet-
tiness involved in all of this.
MORRISON: [Smilesj Oh, yes! Espe-
cially when it starts at the topo There is
another political party in the north that
made cornmon cause with the Dublin
government and went to the British to
say that unless certain reforms were
made, we - Sinn Fein - would get
stronger. Together, they went to the Brit-
ish with a set of proposals for peace.
Their first priority was a united Ireland;
if they couldn't get that, they wanted a
federation; and if not that, joint British-
Irish rule in the north.
After ignoring the proposals for .
months, Thatcher, in a response that
carne to be known as her Lady Macbeth
speech, announced, "United state, that's
out! Federation, that's out! Joint sover-
eignty, that's out!" Her !out, out, out!
remarks.
She humiliated the Irish government.
And Prime Minister Garret FitzGerald,
who had been very confident, was shat-
tered. The aloof Thatcher had thrown
them out. She was later convinced that
Dublin had to be placated, so a treaty
was signed with them in 1985. She prom-
ised Dublin there would be reforrns in
the north and got their co-operation. So
Thatcher was able to say the British were
in the north with the approval ofIreland.
Everything was supposed to get rosy.
But, in fact, nothing has changed; there
were no reforms. The troops are still in
the north - the other day, the arrny took
over a school in West Belfast and sent
all the kids home, because they were
carrying out house-to-house searches in
the area. The harassment still continues.
Unemployment is the same. The shoot-
to-kill policy is on the rise. The British
have ringed the border with security,
those forts you see everywhere. They are
building a Berlin Wall around Northern
Ireland.
ADAMS: It's difficult to know what
they're up to, but what one can say with
certainty is that the British are pursuing
the military option. If they persist, you're
going to get pillboxes and armoured
emplacements.
PLA YBOY: A new level of warfare?
MORRISON: Yes; the British are essen-
tially UIsterizing the conf1ict - you
remember when the US Vietnamized the
war, letting the local troops take the cas-
ualties while the larger force "with-
drew"? Over the years, the British have
reduced their troop commitments. The
people who get killed now on the front
line are mostly police and UIster volun-
teers. And since there are fewer dead sol-
diers sent home, there's not so much of
a kick-up in England.
PLA YBOY: But British soldiers con ti-
nue to be killed.
MORRISON: YesoThe IRA has concen-
 trated its attacks on British forces as
opposed to local forces. And they have
-killed a large number of soldiers in the
north, in Britain and on the Continent.
The British response has been to intro-
duce new laws abrogating basic citizens'
rights. They have taken away a suspect's
right of silence - the equivalent of your
Fifth Amendment.
PLAYBOY: How do the new laws work?
MORRISON: Ifyou are interrogated for
suspicion of a crime and you refuse to
answer, the judge can draw conclusions
from that. They have also banned our
discussing Sinn Fein on television. The
IRA cannot even be mentioned on tele-
visiono And, of course, it is a criminal
offence to interview a member of the
IRA.
PLAYBOY: You mean a journalist, an
American journalist, can be arrested for
interviewing an active member of the
IRA and not reporting it to the British?
MORRISON: Oh, absolutely!
PLAYBOY: Stay tuned.
ADAMS: The silence law is blatant cen-
sorship. Obviously, this government is
concerned that the British not hear about
Ireland, but it's also concerned that all
of the broadcasting media reflect the
British government's view. When one of
us republicans has something to say,
even in our own country, we can be
shown, but out words cannot be broad-
cast from our lips ... The expression
"Whorn the gods would destroy they first
make mad" applies.
MORRISON: [Heatedly ] And people
ask why we're at war! Why are the Irish
fighting? Constant harassment, our
homes being raided and destroyed, what
we're struggling for .being constantly
maligned, the best of our young people
in jail or in the grave! No jury courts,
no civil rights!
PLA YBOY: Wasn't your struggle in the
early years essentially peaceful - in
sorne manner modelled after Martin
Luther King Jr's nonviolent approach?
MORRISON: It was a peaceful struggle.
We were beaten off our own streets in
1968 and 1969. We did not introduce the
gun - not the republicans. The first
shots fired on this road were fired by the
police from armoured cars; they shot
dead nine-year-old Patrick Rooney, who
was in his bedroom, through the wall of
his home. The first British soldier shot
dead was a Catholic, home on leave, who
was defending his family when the police
carne down to burn them out; the police
shot him dead. The first member of the
police force shot dead was shot dead by
the loyalists, in the Protestant section
after the British government advocated
a limited number of reforms for the
Catholics.
ADAMS: Twenty years ago, we had a
civil rights movement and a civil rights
platform. We wanted the right to vote
and an end to discrimination and free-
dom from random searches of homes
and persono The British responded to the
peaceful struggle by military force, the
biggest military force to oppose a civilian
population in western Europe since
World War Two.
PLA YBOY: You call it war; the British
call it civil disobedience.
MORRISON: The British government
denies it's war, but they use all the imper-
atives of war: troops, armoured cars,
helicopters. They have tailored their
legislation to attack uso The silence laws
will have an effect on the British citizens .
as well. Free speech has ended in Britain.
Five years from now, the British people
will realize that - Jesus Christ! - we've
lost all these Iiberties because ofwhat our
governmeht is doing in Ireland. They're
a huge nation compared with uso Fifty-
five million people. They've been bully-
ing us for centuries, and we've stood up
to them.
PLA YBOY: But the British government
is hardly letting up.
MORRISON: Hardly. After taking
away the right to be heard in Britain,
they have now removed the right of
spontaneous protest: You now have to
give seven days' notice for any political
activity - a picket line, a protest march,
a rally, a public meeting. AII these things
keep us on our knees. And now they're
proposing identity cards.
PLAYBOY: Why?
MORRISON: The cards are supposed
to stop you from giving a false name and
address. [Laughs] 1 mean, there are lots
of innocent reasons to give a false name
- if you were moving about with another
woman, for example. You don't ha ve to
be planting an IRA bomb to want to use
a false name.
ADAMS: The identity cards are like pass
cards in South Africa. There are curious
parallels between Ireland and South
Africa. It's no surprise that South Afri-
ca's former prime minister, Mr Vorster,
cited the British laws in Ireland in
defence of the apartheid laws in South
Africa.
PLAYBOY: There may be certain simi-
larities, but do you really mean to equate
Britain with South Africa?
ADAMS: The methods of colonialism
and repression there in many, many
instances were perfected here by the Brit-
ish. The first use of plantations, which
later led to the primary method of
colonisation by the British, was perfected
here. I've said this conflict would be
easier to understand if all the republicans
were black and the loyalists white.
PLA YBOY: By plantations, do you
mean settlements?
ADAMS: Yes, Iiterally p/anting people
in a country by force to take possession
of land and property. In Ireland, they
couldn't subdue the native Irish. So the
established garrisons in the country were
given the land and property of the dis-
possessed in return for loyalty. Later, we
saw the same methods used throughout
the British Empire: partition, economic
apartheid and cultural colonialism.
PLA YBOY: What is cultural colonia-
lism?
ADAMS: The idea that the native Irish
culture should be replaced by the British.
The Irish language was outlawed, and
in the north, that is still true. People were
hanged, tortured, deported for using the
Irish language or professing Irish cul-
ture. In fact, the first sIaves sent to Ame-
rica were Irish.
PLAYBOY: That's not something we
remember from our schoolbooks. How
was that?
ADAMS: The first sIaves were servants
from Ireland who were actually pris-
oners. There was originally a very close
relationship between Afro-Americans
and Irish-Americans. In contrast to sorne
ofthe things happening today, the blacks
and the Irish had the same status as
sIaves and were constantly involved in
rebellion together against slavery.
PLA YBOY: Clear something else up for
uso In the confusion of groups, religions
and abbreviations, we note that you refer
to your opponents, the loyalists - the
Protestants - as a minority. But aren't
the Catholics the minority in Ulster?
MORRISON: Yes, the loyalists are a
majority in Northern Ireland, but only
if you begin from the perspective of
Northern Ireland, not the entire nation
of Ireland. The six counties were arrived
at by mathematics. The borders are not
based on language, religion, rivers, val-
leys or mountains. The faet is, the British
eoncluded that this area - Northern Ire-
land - was the largest it could hold
seeurely. They did their homework.
Catholies were gerrymandered so 'that
the Protestants were always in a
majority. Catholies were diseriminated
against and foreed into available,
affordable housing. There was high
unemployment and little hopeo And
despite the faet that Catholies had larger
families and made up one third of the
population, they aeeounted for most of
the immigration from Ireland every year.
So Catholies cannot get a democratie
majority here to vote for a united Ire-
land.
PLA YBOY: That division was proposed
in the early 1900s. Didn't the Irish
government in Dublin agree to it?
MORRISON: It was 1920. Nobody in
Ireland voted for division. The British
told the republieans of the day that if
they did not aceept the division, there
would be an immediate and terrible war.
And this was, of course, after years of
bloody war by the IRA against the Brit-
ish in Ireland, which finally forced the
British out.
In this confliet, both the Irish and the
British people are being held for ransom.
Ifyou look at public opinion for the past
March 1989 M A GIL L 37
several years, the British people want to
be out of Ireland. But their governrnent
refuses to act on that sentiment.
ADAMS: Every British opinion poli on
the issue of Ireland says that the British
should disengage. I have no doubt that
the ordinary person in Britain doesn't
want what is happening to happen here.
But the issue has to develop international
support.
PLAYBOY: It gets sorne support in the
US, where a lot of your cornpatriots have
immigrated.
MORRISON: Yeso [SmilesJ Ironically,
the chickens are coming home to roost,
because those people who immigrated
now support US organisations such as
NORAID, which help the cause. They
rernember why and theirfamilies remem-
ber why they were forced to leave.
PLAYBOY: Has US support had any
effect?
MORRISON: The British protest that
Americans should not be allowed to sup-
port families in Ireland, The hypocrisy
of the British! I know the British and the
hypocrites they are. It's hard for people
who do not know the situation to realise
how violent, repressive and evil the Brit-
ish government can be.
PLA YBOY: You were imprisoned by the
British, weren't you?
MORRISON: Yes, for two years.
PLAYBOY: What were you charged
with?
MORRISON: Oh, you weren't charged.
y ou were just arrested and taken to
Long Kesh.
PLAYBOY: The authorities must have
had something on YOU. You were never
charged and tried?
MORRISON: No. The police sur-
rounded a local dance hall. They fired
bullets and gas into the hall and then
carne in and arrested about seventy
people. They had an armoured car out-
side the hall. And they said they had an
informer inside. We were put under a
spotlight, one by one, so the informer
could identify us, and they took about
fifteen of us to Castleray interrogation
centre. Then, of the fifteen, they reduced
it to three and then two, just me and a
friendo He has since been killed in an
explosion. So we ended up going to Long
Kesh for two years. I was arrested in
1972 and released in 1974.
PLAYBOY: Could they have heId you
indefini tely?
MORRISON: YesoThey didn't tell YOU.
There was no court; sorne people were
held for four and a halfyears. There were
about two thousand people interned then
under the same circumstances.
In one instance, people were taken
away and tortured for ten or twelve days.
Hoods were placed over their heads and
they weren't allowed to sleep for the
length of the interrogation. It became a
farnous case - the case of the hooded
meno And they played white noise to
38 M A GIL L March 1989
them for the twelve days.
PLA YBOY: What is white noise?
MORRISON: A harsh screeching. They
were placed up against a wall spread-
eagle, and this screeching noise was
played, and they were interrogated.
Every time they fainted, they were
resuscitated and put up against the wall
again.
PAYBOY: Did anyone die as a result?
MORRISON: Not immediately. They
didn't die on the spot. But four or five
died in later years as a result of nervous
disorders.
PLAYBOY: Mr Adarns, it seems a pre-
requisite for rnembers of the republican
movement to have spent time in prison.
y ou were in jail as well.
ADAMS: Yes, four and a half years in
Long Kesh.
PLA YBOY: What was the charge?
ADAMS: My first period in jail, I wasn't
charged at all, just interned. But there
were a massive number of people in pri-
son - I can't remember what the prison
population was, exactly - during the
period of internment. So it's probably
true that everyone in Sinn Fein was in
prison at one time or ariother.
PLAYBOY: Was it really possible for
the British to imprison virtually anyone
without charges or tri al?
ADAMS: Yes, there is probably not a
street, or perhaps even a family, in the
Catholic areas that has not been affected,
that didn't have a cousin or a niece, a
mother or a father in prison. You've got
to remember that it has been twenty
years that the state of emergency has
been in effect.
PLA YBOY: Mr Morrison, you were
released in 1974; then what?
MORRISON: I was released, but I could
be reinterned at any time. About eight
weeks after I was released, they carne
looking for me again. And I went on the
runo
PLAYBOY: What sort of activities were
you engaged in during that period?
MORRISON: [Laughs ]
PLA YBOY: OK, you don't have to be
specific.
MORRISON: I was on the run, it's as
simple as that.
PLA YBOY: You went underground.
MORRISON: Yeah. I moved from
house to house. But in 1976, I became
the editor of The Republican News, our
weekly publication based in the north,
published in Belfast. In 1978, they tried
to close down the paper. I was arrested
and charged with being a member of the
IRA. It was just an excuse to close down
the paper. In 1979, the charges were
dropped.
PLA YBOY: After the paper was closed
down, did you end up in jail again?
MORRISON: Not here. Though I've
been in jail in America since then
[laughs ].
PLA YBOY: Why were you arrested in
the United States?
MORRISON: I got into Canada under
a pretext and tried to sneak over the bor-
der to the US. I was travelling with a
fake passport. But I got caught with a
comrade at Peace Bridge at Buffalo and
arrested. Two others were arrested at
Whirlpool Bridge in Niagara Falls. Still,
we figured it was only a misdemeanour
and we would just be sent back.
PLA YBOY: That's not what happened?
MORRISON: No, we were charged with
a Federal offence and put into prison.
PLA YBOY: How long were you in jail?
MORRISON: Two or three weeks, then
they set a trial date. We were then
deported, but they held on to our pass-
ports. So in order to stand trial, we had
to get a visa from the State Department
to got back - to stand trial for not having
a visa! [LaughsJ Not only that, but when
we got back for trial, it was postponed
for six weeks. So we were allowed to tour
the States for six weeks. We spoke at uni-
versities, public meetings, NORAID
meetings.
PLAYBOY: What happened at your
tria!?
MORRISON: Two people who were
arrested with me were acquitted - a girl
who had driven the car and an Irish
bloke. A friend and I were sentenced to
a year's imprisonment. But we were
placed on paro le. And we were going to
have to go see a parole officer -
PLAYBOY: Which meant you had to
stay in the United States -
MORRISON: [Laughs] Yes! Which
we'd been convicted of entering illegally!
Well, we went to see the parole officer,
and he was going to move to have us
put back in jail. So we went to the judge,
a very objective persono He had allowed
us to take the stand in our defence, and
we got good media coverage, because we
talked about the hunger strike and the
deaths of the hunger strikers, of Bobby
Sands, the brutality of the British. The
jury was in tears. One of them carne up
afterward and told me, "Our hearts are
with you."
Anyway, the judge said we could
leave the States with the proviso that we
didn't come back. But Ididn't have any
money for a ticket. And the judge asked
how I was going to get home.
PLAYBOY: Let's see: The State Depart-
ment brought you over for trial and so
MORRISON: [LaughsJ Yeah, they had
to buy the ticket to send us back. Still,
I'm restricted from travel, and so is
Gerry Adams. It's just another form of
censorship, of stopping us from speaking
out.
PLAYBOY: Mr Adams, why has the
State Department denied you a visa to
. travel to the United States?
ADAMS: The US has a foreign policy
that supports the British. It's as simple
as that. Anything that doesn't support

the British position they will do their best
to subdue. It's in America's interest.
Great Britain has become a junior part-
ner to United States imperialism. Great
Britain is just another American aircraft
carrier, like Honduras.
PLA YBOY: But, specifically, why has a
US visa been refused?
ADAMS: 1 cannot speak in the United
States because, apparently, it is not "in
the interests of American foreign policy"
and other grounds even more ludicrous.
1 am presumably a threat to the United
States Government. [Laughsj It's
important that people see what's hap-
pening here, or at least become conscious
that we have had a military occupation
here for twenty years. The American
media come when there is something dra-
matic to cover. They don't see what's
happening day to day.
PLAYBOY: Mr Morrison, you charged
that there is an official British-govern-
ment policy - decided at the top - to
hunt down and kill suspected IRA mern-
bers. Can you back up that statement?
MORRISON: In early November 1982,
three republicans, IRA volunteers, left
a friend's house in the town oCLorden.
They were driving on a quiet road out-
side the town when they were ambushed
by the police and shot dead. It later
emerged in an investigation of the inci-
dent that the police who killed the three
had been trained as a British military
counterterrorism unit. The three men
were unarmed.
An inquest was held, and when the evi-
dence was presented in court, a British
investigator said he had learned of evi-
dence withheld by the police. Finally, the
British government formally charged the
police with murder, but only after
immense international pressures.
PLA YBOY: The government prosecuted
the police, then. Doesn't that cast sorne
doubt on your charge that the govern-
ment condones murder?
MORRISON: Well, the police were all
acquitted. In a related case, another IRA
volunteer was killed. When it carne to
trial, one of the police admitted that he
had lied in his testimony. Then he quoted
the Official Secrets Act, which effectively sonal basis, it was a terrible tragedy.
made him immune from prosecution for
Iying. What's more, it was revealed that
he was acting directly on orders from the
head ofthe police, who in turn was prob-
ably acting on orders from Thatcher.
The whole fucking lot of them were
involved!
PLA YBOY: To say they were "probably
acting" on Thatcher's orders is no proof.
Is there other evidence that she gave
orders that IRA members were to be
killed?
MORRISON: There is the famous
Gibraltar incident, in which three IRA
members were shot on the suspicion that
they were about to set a car bomb on
the rock. The British Special Air Service
(SAS) crew was dispatched to take care
of them. They got their orders from a
cabinet meeting in February 1988.
PLAYBOY: How do you know that?
MORRISON: A British intelligence offi-
cer testified at the inquest that Thatcher resenting the dispossessed and poorest
had been told that "sornething" was
going to happen in Gibraltar. He said
that Ml-Five had picked it up, knew who
was supposedly involved; it was then dis-
cussed at an inner-cabinet meeting with
only Thatcher's key people. 1 know that
beca use an intelligence officer revealed
it. The SAS were given a brief to execute
the meno
PLA YBOY: Was there an IRA car
bomb?
MORRISON: No! There was none
found in Gibraltar, and the people the
SAS killed were unarmed.
PLAYBOY: You said "none found in
Gibraltar." Was there any car bomb at
al!?
MORRISON: Explosives were found to buy weapons for Ireland - or to ship
three days later in Spain. But that's like them here. We're asking people to sup-
killing three people in Belfast on a
Thursday and finding explosives in Dub-
lin the following Sunday to justify the
killing.
PLA YBOY: What about another infa-
mous incident - the IRA killing of ele-
ven civilians in 1987 at a ceremony
honouring war dead?
MORRISON: On that occasion, the
IRA knew there would be a lot of chil-
dren there. They had a thirty-pound
bomb ready to go off, controlled by a
radio device, to hit just British troops.
Before the IRA arrived, the bomb
exploded. They didn't want that to hap-
peno This has happened before. There is
a constant war of electronic technology
between the British and the IRA. In fact,
the soldiers carry transmitters to impede
electronic signals from IRA radios that
may trigger a bombo So we believe that
the British unintentionally triggered that
bombo
PLAYBOY: But the bomb was there, set
by the IRA.
MORRISON: The explosion hurt uso
Why would we want to do that? It makes
no sense morally, militarily. On a per-
We've experienced tragedy and bereave-
ment ourselves,so we know how the
people feel.
PLA YBOY: Let's be more direct. Is the
IRA a terrorist organisation?
MORRISON: Well, it is seen as a terror-
ist group in the United States. 1 mean,
The New York Times' policy is to refer
to the IRA as guerrillas. The fact is, there
is a war going on. People get killed in
wars. Everything the IRA does gets put
through a moral mill, scrutinised by
journalists, by television. And the press
handouts from the British embassies
throughout the world concentrate on
IRA actions that go wrong. But the Brit-
ish exclude their own acts of violence.
PLA YBOY: And you believe the British
are winning the propaganda war?
MORRISON: Ves; look at the resources
the British have to influence public opi-
nion. We're a small organisation rep-
sections of the community. You must
describe to your readers our office here
-it's hardly plush. In fact, we're all shi-
vering in this room because we have no
damn heat in here!
PLA YBOY: Another charge: Is the
money collected, primarily in the US, for
widows and orphans ever used to buy
weapons?
MORRISON: No. The money's
accounted for. It goes to the widows and
orphans and is carefully documented.
And the exile community has been gen-
erous. We do ask our exiles for help, and
what's wrong with that? But 1'11go on
record for Playboy and say this: We are
not asking anybody in the United Sta tes
port our struggle morally and finan-
cially. Support the struggle until Britain
lea ves Ireland and the Irish people have
a national democracy. That's all we're
asking people to do.
PLA YBOY: But that lea ves the question:
Who arms the IRA? There have been
assertions that Qaddafi of Libya
bankrolls both the IRA and Sinn Fein.
ADAMS: That is just not true. Sorne
time ago, there was an effort made to
link various liberation movements -and
various terrorist groups - with the
republican movement. We have a natural
affinity - 1 mean, 1 don't have any
apologies for the fact that 1 believe the
Palestinian people have a right to a
homeland. And we're totally opposed to
the US policy in Central America. We
support the Nicaraguans; any legitimate
national-liberation struggle deserves sup-
port. But beyond the philosophical, there
is no linkage.
PLA YBOY: And you, Mr Morrison?
MORRISON: 1 am not in a position to
state knowledgeably where the repub-
licans are getting their weapons from. At
the start of the armed struggle here in
1971, they had British rifles. No one said
the British were supplying them. Then
the IRA had M-I rifles, American rifles;
the Americans didn't supply them. And
now they have AK-45s, Russian rifles;
the Russians aren't supplying them.
There is a Iarge international market and
the IRA, 1 guess, shops around, like any-
one else.
PLAYBOY: The troubIes in Northern
Ireland are a conflict most people find
confusing and confounding. Could each
of you try to summarise what this strug-
gle is about?
MORRISON: We're asking that the
Irish people be allowed to have their own
future. And to show that the British pres-
ence in the north is a malign one. Water
separa tes Ireland and England, history
separates uso But history has tragically
connected uso And we have been inflicted
with massive suffering for centuries by
the British. The British government has
to recognise the Irish people's right to
self-determination. The United States
enjoys it, Great Britain enjoys it; why not
Ireland?
ADAMS: The British are denying us our
rights as a nation. It will take time and
they willleave only when they are forced
to lea ve. We're their first colony, and
their last. It's almost a psychological fix-
ation by the British government. They
didn't leave anywhere else easily.
MORRISON: And when it is politically
costly for the British to remain in Ire-
land, they'll go. British public opinion
wants them to get out. But the tragic
thing is that it wori't be triggered until
a large number of British soldiers are
killed, and that's what's going to happen.
The British governrnent has been pre-
dicting an IRA offensive for sorne time.
The IRA, it is claimed, has a large
amount of modern equipment, and if
42 M A GIL L March 1989
that's true, it hasn't even tapped its full
resources. So you run into a bloody
period when they're going to die and
we're going to die. That can be avoided
- ifthe British aren't too pigheaded and
too racist to negotiate.
[The final part of the interview with the
pravo follows.}
PLA YBOY: How do you feel when you
hear yourself referred to as a terrorist?
IRA PROVO: Terrorism -ah well, was
the bombing of German civilians during
World War Two terrorism? When Mar-
garet Thatcher and others talk about the
IRA's killing men, women and children,
do they forget about their own past? It's
easy when you're in power to excuse this.
In the Falklands, for instance, there are
stories now coming out about the cap-
ture and torture of Argentinian soldiers
by the British - British marines' cutting
prisoners' throats! Is that acceptable just
because it happened in an international
conflict?
PLAYBOY: No, but isn't that just
rationalising your own terrorism?
IRA PROVO: No, it's a central question.
If you take a situation such as the bomb-
ing of Libya, for exarnple, in which men,
women and children were killed, is that
an acceptable act of war or is it terror-
ism? Sta tes kili in the most horrific
fashion; it just depends on what side of
the fence your definition of terrorism is.
But we don't have the chance to present
our argument because of the media ban
against uso And it's not just we who are
banned but members of Sinn Fein - a
legal political party.
PLA YBOY: Do you argue that if you
were allowed a legal forum, you'd be
understood and the war might end?
IRA PROVO: The British government
can say what it wants, what we are -
beca use our answer will not come across.
Terrorism is a convenient cloak.
PLA YBOY: But couldn't politics be a
cloak for you -if your real aim were to
settle grudges? Or to seek sorne personal
gain?
IRA PROVO: If we're as bad as that,
why do we have the support of the com-
munity? 1 and the people I work with
could not survive without the help and
support of the people of the community!
For me to move and operate in these
areas, 1 need people who allow me to
come into their homes. And they do that
at the risk of their own lives.
Would they do that ifthey were intimi-
dated? If they thought 1 was in this for
personal gain? They do it because they
support what we're doing. I can't drive
down the street in a car that's going to
be used in an operation; I'll be picked
up immediately. So civilians who will
take that risk drive the cars. They'll drive
our arms and explosives to a certain
point, drop them off. Then we'Il take
them, move into position and engage an
army patrol. Then we'll withdraw, hide
our weapons, and people give us places
to dump them.
PLA YBOY: We've heard that you even
have your own MASH unit.
IRA PROVO: Yeso If we're wounded,
we can't go to hospital, because we'Il be
immediately arrested. We can treat
minor wounds in a sort of mobile van.
If we're badly wounded, it's up to the
people "on the ground" to send us to
hospital.
PLA YBOY: Does the IRA ever disci-
pline its members?
IRA PROVO: The only time the IRA
will take action against its own members
is when they transgress the rules, disobey
orders or when they informo It's a terrible
step for the IRA to decide to execute one
of its own members. The IRA has strict
laws and a constitution. I know ifI break
one of those rules what the consequence
is.
PLAYBOY: What is it?
IRA PROVO: [Smiles} Execution. It's
not a decision taken lightly. There is a
whole process of investigation. The per-
son accused has to have all the allega-
tions presented to him and he or she is
given an opportunity to respondo You
simply cannot accuse someone. You
have to prove the charge, you have to
provide evidence.
PLA YBOY: What's an example?
IRA PROVO: Passing on information
to British army intelligence. There is a
rigid internal procedure, and the IRA
. Council, which is the governing body,
have the final sayo And if they're not sat-
isfied, they will refuse to proceed.
PLA YBOY: Interesting that you have all
these rules and legal procedures, when
it's such a brutal, chaotic war. What is
more brutal, the IRA or its Protestant
counterpart, the UDA?
IRA PROVO: When 1 was in prison,
there were hundreds of UDA members
who were serving time for sorne of the
most brutal murders ever committed.
The UDA and the Ulster Volunteer
Forces were' involved in butchering
people. They tried to terrorise, instill fear
in the nationalist population. They
would kidnap people, take them somew-
here, torture them. They would gouge
out their eyes, cut their throats, cut off
their genitals. Their victims were subject
to the most horrific forms of murder.
And they freely admitted to having com-
mitted them.
PLA YBOY: But they were arrested by
the British, wereri't they?
IRA PROVO: The only reason they're
in prison is that the methods were so ter-
rible, they were an embarrassment. But
the leader, Danny Murphy, was released.
PLAYBOY: Murphy, that's an Irish
name.
IRA PROVO: Ves, he was born a Cath-
olic but married a Protestant and became
a member of a loyalist organisation.
PLA YBOY: How could he have been
released from prison after committing
murder?
IRA PROVO: He served time for the
attempted murder of two Catholic
nurses. He was caught with the weapons
used.
PLAYBOY: Nurses? Why try to kili two
presumably innocent women?
IRA PROVO: Because they were Cath-
olic. He was released, and shortly there-
after, a man by the name of Joseph
Donegan was taken from the Falls, in
Belfast, and held for four days. He was
brutally murdered, his throat cut, all his
teeth had been torn out, his face bashed
beyond recognition, cigarette burns all
over his body. Danny Murphy carried
out that killing.
PLAYBOY: How do you know?
IRA PROVO: We knew. He was then
targetted by the IRA and was actually
caught in the loyalist stronghold of
Shankil!. Now, Danny Murphy wasn't
brutalised. He was shot dead. There's no
nice way to kili a person, to take alife,
whether it's done by a bomb or by a
bullet or by clubbing someone to death
or whatever. But the IRA kept to its
standards. There was no brutality. He
was shot in the head. It was quick.
PLA YBOY: Do you ever get a chance
to ask yourself what you're doing as you
go off on an "operation"?
IRA PROVO: Well, if 1 stopped and
thought during an operation, 1 might not
go on. But first of all, 1 think of the
danger to myself. 1 take the gun in my
hand. There's a very good chance 1'11get
killed. If 1'm killed, 1 know the conse-
quences for my family: They'll have to
live with it the rest oftheir lives. My chil-
dren will be without a father. And the
reverse is true: If 1 blow away a British
soldier, the same applies to him. But,
unfortunately, you can't think of it in
those terms.
PLA YBOY: How do you think of it?
IRA PROVO: Afterward, 1 think, 1
didn't want to do that - but it had to
be done. You know, at times, it does
wear you down. At times, you want to stop
because it's too mucho You have to say
to your comrades, "1 need to think, to
get away from the shooting!" And you
go to a friendly house and sit for a week
and think.
1 believe that if 1 continued to do what
I'rn doing and didn't have doubts, I'd
have a problem. To stop every now and
then and think. Now, where is this taking
me? What have 1 achieved? But just to
go on, no holds barred, saying, "1 am
right, 1 am right" -then it's a problem.
PLA YBOY: Does the danger of the
operation itself have an effect on you?
IRA PROVO: Sometimes, before an
operation to engage the Brits, 1 get
butterflies in my stomach. 1 feel sick, 1
don't want to eat or drink - all 1 want
to do is get the run going. Do what I'm
to do, get back. My nerves are racing,
my adrenaline is going.
Once 1 get back to a safe place, 1 can
sit back. 1'11be shaking and have to calm
myself. Have a cigarette, a cup oftea and
talk with the people I've been with, ana-
lyse the operation, talk about it, what
happened. None of us are supermen. If
it were like the movies, it would be so
nice.
PLA YBOY: There doesn't appear to be
any end in sight. The British have simply
become more rigid, enacted more laws
to de al with the situation. And you -
how long can you keep this up?
IRA PROVO: 1 believe we're going to
win. What the British government are
doing is playing their last cardo In 1981,
Mrs Thatcher said that the hunger strike
was the IRA playing its last cardo But
since 1981, the IRA has gotten stronger
and carried out operations that no one
ever imagined they could: the Brighton
bomb, for example.
PLAYBOY: That was the bomb that
exploded in the hotel in Brighton, nearly
killing Thatcher?
IRA PROVO: Ves. [Smiles ruefully] We
came so close to our objective, which was
to remo ve the British war cabinet. There
have al so been operations the IRA has
carried out on the Continent - not
against the inhabitants of France or the
Netherlands but against British forces
stationed there.
The British government is now talking
about legislation that will prevent repub-
licans' standing for election. They are
trying to introduce legislation that com-
pels the public to take a nonviolent oath.
If they dori't take the oath, then they
can't stand for election. They have
already eroded a suspect's right of
silence. The British government are now
eating away at their own system of jus-
tice, at their basic rights.
They may try to introduce legislation
that will outlaw Sinn Fein. They may
reintroduce internment without tria!.
That's their last cardo They're all acts of
desperation. There's a wind of change in
the loyalist community, members of the
community who have become disen-
chanted with their own leadership. They
now see that they've been led up a path
that goes nowhere. The social and econ-
omic conditions that were endured by the
Catholics for generations, the Prot-
estants are now forced to endure. Unem-
ployrnent, poor wages, poverty are now
endemic to both communities.
PLAYBOY: You mean the British are
abandoning the Protestant community?
IRA PROVO: The Protestants are
beginning to see that the British govern-
ment no longer regards them as equals.
They are beginning to see that the only
interest the British government has here
is economic and strategic. That they
dori't care about the population, only
what can be gained for their own
interests.
PLA YBOY: If what you fight for should
ever come true - if Ireland is ever
reunified - what would you expect to
happen?
IRA PROVO: We want to bring back
the Irish culture. It's been taken from us,
the foreign culture has been imposedon
uso The culture now is a rat's nest. The
native Irish culture had a different set
of values, which said that everyone was
entitled to a share of the wealth and pro-
duction of the country. Everyone was
entitled to be treated as equal regardless
of religion, colour, sex, whatever. And
we believe in secularism; that church and
state are separa te.
PLA YBOY: That wouldn't be greeted
with any enthusiasm in the south, where
the Catholic Church is powerfu!.
IRA PROVO: The Church has its place,
but not in govcrnment. Ireland has a
right to be governed by its people - not
by any other entity or state. We look for-
ward to a society where everyone has a
role. It will be up to the people to decide.
Once we put the guns away, they're put
away for good.
The
Greatest
Steeplechase
Ever
Twenty five years ago two of the
greatest steeplechasers in the history of
racing clashed in the 1964 Cheltenham
Gold Cupo At the time, Arkle (opposite
left) and MilI House (opposite right) were
both considered by their partisan support-
ers unbeatable. This is the story of that
day and of that race.

by DAVID WALSH

N A FRIDA Y EVENING 25 YEARS ago,

O a group of lads sat in the stableboys' canteen

at Cheltenham racecourse. As well as taking
their tea, they looked at the local evening
newspaper and discussed the next day's big
race. The Gold Cupo It was 6 March 1964,
the eve of what was to be the greatest Gold Cup in the
history of horseracing at Cheltenham. A story that went
back to the Grand Annual Steeplechase in 1834. The
conversation which might have interested us on that Fri-
day evening in '64 involved a collection of Irish lads and
a group from the English village of Lambourn.
Each had a definite view on how the Gold Cup would
go. Definite and different. The Irish thought Arkle
would win. Lambourn did not see how Mili House could
be beaten. Their degrees of confidence varied. Those who
believed in Arkle were fairly sure, the Lambourn lads
entertained not the merest hint of a doubt.
Johnny Lumley sat amongst the Irish crowd. He was
19 then, from Kilsallaghan in Co Dublin. Although he

44 M A GIL L March 1989

was a stable lad, Johnny had never had much love for
horses. When he left school he went working for a jewel-
ler in Abbey Street, right in the centre of Dublin.
After ayear thatjob went by the boards and Johnny
was at a loose end. Re didn't like the city and tried to
find work near home. Dreaper's racing stabies were up
the road, his grandfather had worked for Tom Dreaper
and Johnny thought he would try for ajob at the stables.
Re was sixteen when he began working with horses.
Because he was new and didn't ride and did not have
any ambition to ride, Johnny was not given any horses
to "do" for about a year. Re filled in when other lads
were away and did a few spares (horses that nobody else
were particularly interested in doing).
One of the spares was a big, fattish four-year-old
called Arkle. Head lad Paddy Murray was always telling
Johnny to look after Arkle and Johnny eventually asked
could he "do" Arkle. As nobody else sought the four-
year-old, Johnny was given his first responsibility.
Now Johnny Lumley sat with the Irish lads in Chel-
tenham, amazed at the confidence of the lads from Lam-
bourn. Re had to admit that Mill House was sorne horse.
Earlier that day the star of Lambourn had arrived at
the Cheltenham stables and Johnny went along with
sorne other Irish guys to see him in the flesh.
All of them thought Mill House looked magnificent.
Johnny was disappointed that when the Lambourn lads
arrived with Mill House they did not ask to see Arkle.
It was like they believed he was just another horse. So
that evening in the canteen there was a discussion which
considered the merits of Arkle and Mill House.
It ended in a way that Johnny shall not forget:"One
of the Irish lads was in his mid fifties. A big man, maybe
15 or 16 stones. He was, as far as 1 can remember, over
with a horse of Aubrey Brabazon's. Portel Rouge 1
think. Anyway one of the Lambourn lads turned to our
big l6-stones man and said 'you know what, Mill House
would win tomorrow with you riding him'. That kind
of ended the argument."
VEN THOUGH MILL HOUSE NOW raced
E in the C010l1.rsof the retired English business-
man Bill Gollings and was trained by Fulke
Walwyn at Lambourn, he had been bred and
first raced in Ireland. He was foaled at the Baw-
nogues Stud alongside Punchestown race-
course, the latest in a line of national hunt horses
produced by the Lawlor family.
The Lawlors liked to have horses and anything they
raced was trained by Tom Taaffe at Rathcoole. Tom
was father of the jockeys Pat and Tos and his Rathcoole
stables turned out many winners. The Taaffes and the
Lawlors were longtime friends and it was natural that
one of the Taaffes would break Mill House.
As it turned out the three-year-old ended up at Alas-
try House, Pat's farm near Straffan. Pat had ridden Nas
na Riogh, Mill House's dam and he was interested to
see what kind of son that useful mare had produced.
He was impressed:
"Mill House camehere (Alastry House) as a three-
year-old and 1 always thought he was going to be a great
horse. He had everything. Considering Nas na Riogh's
size he was very big, he had a lovely temperament and
you could do anything with him. He was great on the
46 M A GIL L March 1989
roads and 1 would .bring him down to my father's place
in Rathcoole to teach him to jump. He did everything
so well."
As Mill House showed he could handle hurdles and
fences, Pat decided to complete his education on the
hunting fields around Kildare: "1 hunted Mill House
with the Naas Harriers, the South County Dublin Har-
riers and the Kildare Hunt. 1 have always believed that
horse and jockey can learn far more hunting than on
the racecourse.
"Out in the field you meet every kind of obstacle.
Gate or ditch, wall or bank, and they all' have to be
jumped. You'd be out for two or three hours and it
meant that when you took your horse to the racecourse
he 'was not in the least excited by what he found."
Mill House was ready to race at four and on the
fourth day of March 1961 he took his place in the
Osberstown Maiden Hurdle at Naas. Pat Taaffe had the
ride and the big horse won easily. Already there was
talk that he was the best novice hurdler in Ireland and
that he would be a much better chaser.
From Pat Taaffe's perspective, things could hardly
have been better. Mill House, a potentially great race-
horse, was trained by his father and would be ridden
by his brother Tos or himself. But over the years the
Taaffes had been telling the Lawlors that they should
be selling sorne of their horses:
"The Lawlors used to get sentimental about the
horses they bred. They did not want to part with any.
So even though they bred colts and fillies, they were
keeping them all. They were overstocked with horses.
We tried to get them to think in terms of selling sorne."
Such was Mill House's reputation that offers were
bound to come. Soon after his Naas victory he ran at
Punchestown. Neither Pat nor Tos could ride him as
their retaining stables both had horses in the race. Engl-
ish jockey Dave Dick was asked to take the ride.
Mill House was going strongly when crashing
through the fourth last and falling. But Dave Dick felt
enough power before that fall to realise that he had just
ridden a champion. When he carne back to the weigh-
room he was full of Mill House's greatness. One of the
Irish jockeys who listened as Dick raved about the horse
was Willie Robinson:
"Dave kept on talking about how good Mill House
was and how he would have to be sold to England. From
what he was saying, you knew that Mill House was a
very special horse."
Mill House was at Bawnogues when Bill Gollings
and the English trainer Syd Dale carne to see him. They
found a big heavy shouldered animal, covered in mud
with half of his tail missing, chewed off by cattle. Gol-
lings was not enthused. Then somebody put a saddle
on Mill House, he popped a few fences and a deal was
struck.
Pat Taaffe thinks Gollings paid 10,000 guineas for
Mill House: an enormous sum for a national hunt horse
at the time. The horse would be trained with Syd Dale
at Epsom: "He did not last with Syd for too long," says
Pat. "In fact he only ran twice before he was sent to
Fulke Walwyn in Lambourn. 1 imagine what happened
was that Syd told Bill Gollings to back Mill House first
time. The horse got beat. Then he told him not to back
him next time. The horse won. So Mill House was sent
on to Lambourn."

" On the day of the '63 Gold Cup Mili House started
W
ILLIAM ROBINSON W AS ONE OF the
better jockeys in Ireland during the late
1950s. He rode mostly over jumps but was
good enough to finish second on Paddy's
Point in the English and Irish Derbies of
1958. Fifty eight was his best year as he
was Irish champion. Ah extremely modest man, Robin-
son considered he was not idealIy suited to either the
flat or national hunt:
"If I were being honest I would have to say I was
a stone too heavy for the flat and a stone too light for
the jumps. But that was the way I was built and I had
to live with it."
Others reckoned he had aboye average riding ability.
When Fulke Walwyn needed a jockey for his star chaser
Mandarn in the 1961 Hennessy Gold Cup he asked
Robinson to take the ride. Willie travelIed to England,
won on Mandarin and further impressed Walwyn.
Four months later Walwyn wanted a jockey for his
champion hurdle prospect Anzio. Again Willie jumped
when the call carne and Anzio flew away with the Cham-
pion Hurdle. That was March, 1962 and Walwyn wanted
WilIie to become his stable jockey. The offer was
accepted and in August of that year Willie left Ireland
to become first jockey to Fulke Walwyn at Saxon House
in Lambourn.
About six weeks befo re Robinson took up residence
at Saxon House, MilI House had arrived. Robinson
knew about Mili House from his brief career in Ireland
and the reputation he had established. But he had never
sat upon the animal that was to become known as "the
big horse".
Pat Taaffe and WilIie Robinson were good friends.
They had come from similar backgrounds; both had
received Jesuit educations, Pat at Belvedere and Willie
at Clongowes. As jockeys, they got to know and like
each other. When WilIie accepted the offer to ride for
Walwyn that meant he would beco me Mili House's
jockey. Pat wrote to him soon after his departure:
"He wanted to know how I was getting on," says
Willie, "and also how MilI House was doing. Re told
me that I would be riding the best horse in Britain, prob-
ably the best horse in the world."
It took MilI House a couple of months to settle at
Saxon House but once he did Willie was taken over by
the sense of his greatness: "Have you ever driven a Mini
or a Prefect, stepped out of that car and got into a Rolls
Royce. WelI, that was what it was like when youjumped
off an ordinary horse and got on Mill House,
"When I ro de him I thought to myself he was the
horse they had been trying to breed for years. One that
was big enough to carry weight, one that would eat up
his fences, galIop for ever and had any amount of cour-
age. Re had so much presence, quality and class. 1had
never ridden anything like him."
Fulke Walwyn and BilI GolIings were similarIy con-
vinced about Mili House. In the autumn of 1962 Gol-
lings began to back his horse for the 1963 Gold Cupo
Mili House was then five, an equine baby, but his owner
was sure that age did not matter. GolIings had E50 each
way at 200/1 with Ralph Freeman and the same amount
at iOO/l with Ladbrokes.
a 7/2 favourite, Pat Taaffe ro de second favourite Fortria
for the Tom Dreaper stable and another ten horses lined
up at the start. Mili House jumped off in front and in
the best traditions of great steeplechasing improved his
position from there. Re won by 12lengths. Bill Gollings
had won E5,958 in prize money and f25,000 in bets:
"1 had never seen a horse, let alone a novice, do what
Mili House did that day," says Willie Robinson. "Chel-
tenham was soft but he flew the course." Already it was
reasoned in England that Mill House could win another
two or three or even four more Gold Cups. They said
he would become the horse of the century.
RERE WAS NO GREAT REJOICING IN
T
the Baker household at Dunboyne in County
Meath on the night of 19 Apri11957. The Bak-
ers were a farming family who liked. to keep
horses. Their old chasing mate Brighi Cherry
had delivered a colt foal and there was no rea-
son to believe the new arrival was anything special.
Mrs Baker had sent Bright Cherry to Archive, a stal-
lion who was bred to win a Derby but who had been
a considerable disappointment on the racecourse. The
fruit of the Archive/Bright Cherry alIiance did not send
Mrs Baker into raptures.
Her daughter Alison broke him in when he was two
and ayear later the Bakers dispatched their horse to
Goffs Sales. Re was not a paragon of good looks and
the Bakers reckoned that, whatever else, they did not
want the three-year-old back home. They settled on a
March 1989 M A GIL L 47
reserve of 500 guineas which was low enough to ensure
a sale.
Tom Dreaper advised Anne, Duchess of Westminis-
ter to have a look at the three-year-old son of Bright
Cherry. Captain Charles Radclyffe was present at the
sales and also interested in the Bright Cherry three-year-
old. They Duchess and the Captain bid against each
other, soon outstripping the 500 guineas reserve.
Eventually the horse went to the Duchess for 1,150
guineas. The Bakers could not believe their luck. The
new purchase was called Arkle aftera mountain near
the Duchess' estate in Scotland. Hejhen spent ayear
at the Duchess' home in Chesire. Af-four, Arkle was
ready to go into training.
It was not certain whether Arkle would go to Tom
Dreaper's Kilsallaghan stables or to the Duchess' other
Irish trainer Willie O'Grady. For the Duchess had two
horses, Arkle and a very impressive-looking chestnut
cal1ed Brae Flame and she wanted one to go to Dreapers
and the other to O'Gradys.
She invited Tom Dreaper to Cheshire to pick between
the two. Tom could see that Brae Flame was the more
handsome horse but as he had ridden Arkle's grand dam
Greenogue Princess and liked the dam Bright Cherry,
he opted for Arkle. Tom Dreaper choose Arkle with the
words "blood is thicker than water."
Johnny Lumley remembers Arkle's arrival at Kilsal-
laghan: "He was fat and unfit, a horrible-looking horse
at the time. None of the lads wanted to have much to
do with him. 1 was doing spares and odd jobs at the
time and had never been given a horse."
Not having a horse meant that Johnny never got a
day at the races. Johnny reckoned he could use Arkle
to get to the races: "1 thought to myself if the l~ad lad
gave me Arkle 1 would surely get a few days at the races.
But 1 was not any different to the other lads. 1 didn't
think he was any good either."
Johnny did get Arkle and on 9 December 1961 he
got to go to the races. Arkle was to make his racecourse
debut in the bumper at Mullingar. It was a foul day but
Arkle, ridden by Mark Hely-Hutchinson, ran well to fin-
ish third. Hely-Hutchinson was again on board when
Arkle contested another bumper 17 days later at Leo-
pardstown and finished fourth.
Those runs suggested the horse had sorne ability and
he was entered for a three-miles hurdle at Navan the
fol1owing month. It was a good class race for which the
Dreaper mare Kerforo was favourite, Arkle starting at
20/1. Pat Taaffe rode Kerforo and Liam McLoughlin
had the ride on Arkle.
Kerforo and a horse cal1ed Blunt's Cross appeared
to have the race between them as they raced to the sec-
ond last hurdle. Blunt's Cross was taking ca re ofKerforo
winning when, from nowhere, carne this horse, flying
up the hill at Navan and quite taking the breath from
Taaffe and Lord Patrick Beresfordrider of Blunt's
Cross. Arkle had arrived.""" . .
Ridden by Pat Taaffe, he ran another three races that
season, winning once but getting well be aten in the other.
There was a feeling that maybe he was not as good as
Navan had suggested. Arkle spent the summer of 1962
on the Duchess' farm at Bryanstown, near Maynooth,
and when he returned to Kilsal1aghan at the start of the
fol1owing season, he looked a bigger, better horse.
He won his first two hurdle races at the start of the
48 M A GIL L March 1989
1962-63 season and Tom Dreaper had seen enough to
convince him that Arkle was way aboye average. He
would now go chasing and the horse's first test would
be the Honeybourne Novice Chase at Cheltenham on
Mackeson Gold Cup day.
His reputation travel1ed before him and Arkle was
never better than 6/4. He won by 20 lengths. Immediately
there was a logical path for Arkle: he would be trained
for the Broadway Novice Chase (now the Sun Alliance
Chase) at the Cheltenham festival of '63 and ayear later
he would try for the Gold Cupo
He carried 12-11 to victory at Leopardstown before
returning to Cheltenham. Backers of Irish horses had
suffered at that Cheltenham meeting and four consecu-
tive Irish-trained favourites had lost before Arkle took
on the best of Britain's novices in the Broadway Chase.
It wasnot a time for circumspection and Irishmen
backed Arkle down to the ridiculously short price of 4/
9.
At the last he had a horse called Jomsviking along-
side but sprinted from there and won by 20 lengths. That
surge of acceleration became a hallmark of Arkle's great-
ness and it astonished his jockey:
"When horses come under pressure they slow, when
Arkle carne under pressure he found a new gear. 1 have
always believed that he sen sed the end of a race, he knew
where the winning post was and he was excited by it.
No matter how easy you rode him, or how easy you
were winning he always wanted to go as fast as he could
at the end of a race."
Arkle's performance in the Broadway Chase raised
a few eyebrows but the eyebrows were lowered two days
later when the six-year-old Mil1 House won the Gold
Clip by 12 lengths. Irish racing people believed they had
a horse to take on the English-trained champion but the
English racing world saw no real threat to Mill House ..
He was the horse to outdo the great Golden Millar.
Returning to Ireland, Arkle won at Fairyhouse and
Punchestown befo re being put out to grass for the sum-
mer. After his Cheltenham victory it was stated that
Arkle would be aimed for the 1964 Gold Cup and, for
racing people, the prospect of Arkle confronting the
great Mill House enlivened conversations and fuelled
imaginations.
Another summer at Bryanstown further improved
Arkle. He returned so well that Tom Dreaper opted to
face up to Mill House sooner rather than later. They
would meet for the first time in the Hennessy Gold Cup
at Newbury on the final Saturday in November. Arkle
would receive five pounds from the Gold Cup winner
and his jockey was confident:
"1 thought we would beat Mill House that day. And
1 had a sidebet with Wil1iam (Robinson) who believed
that his horse could not be beaten. If Arkle won 1 would
have to buy something for William and vice versa if Mill
House won."
Arkle had two preparatory runs befo re the Hennessy,
an impressive victory in a one mile six furlongs flat race
at Navan and an equally facile success over fences at
Gowran Park. Mill House did not have a run before
the Hennessy but went to Newbury in very good con-
dition.
Willie Robinson took note of the two horses in the
parade ring: "It was the first time 1 had a long look at
Arkle. Against our horse, Arkle did not compare. Mill

Scenes at the first and final fences at the 1964 Cheltenham
Gold Cup: top: Mil! House leads over thefirstfence, with Arkle
on the extreme left. Bottom: Arkle leads Mil! House over the
.final fence.
House was a manlier, stronger, better-Iooking horse. To
me, Arkle seemed lightly built, a more athletic type. I
found it hard to believe that there could be a better horse
than Mill House."
The big horse led from the start, jumping magnifi-
cently and making light of his twelve stones top weight.
Going to the third last Pat Taaffe asked Arkle to close
on the leader. He lay about three parts of a length behind
Mill House as the two horses rose to the third last: "That
was precisely the position I should not have been in,"
says the jockey. "Against a jumper like Mill House, the
last thing you want is your horse taking off a half a
length behind him."
Arkle appeared to jump the fence well but lost his
footing on landing. In an instant Mill House was six
lengths clear and the race was no longer a race. Mill
House won by eight lengths, Happy Spring beat Arkle
for second place and England's ever-growing racing pub-
lic rejoiced. Their star had conceded five pounds to Arkle
and jumped him into the ground.
Pat Taaffe was disappointed with his own perform-
ance and quietly told the Duchess that Arkle would beat
Mill House the next time they met. For Willie Robinson
the race was a vindication of his belief that Mill House
was the best. Under the terms of his bet with Pat Taaffe,
Willie had to find a present for his friend:
"1 sent Pat to my tailor, WJ Kelly of Grafton Street,
and told him to have a suit made for himself. There were
now no doubts in my mind. Mill House was the better.
I thought the extra two furlongs of theGold Cup would
suit him more than Arkle. And Fulke Walwyn was even
more convinced that Mill House would always beat the
Irish challenger."
Pat Taaffe may have believed that Arkle would win
next time the two horses met but the feeling in Britain
was that Mill House was unbeatable. Both horses had
two races between the Hennessy and Cheltenham Gold
Cupo They carne through their preparatory tests with
authority: Mill House winning two conditions races
effortlessly, Arkle shouldering big weights in three com-
petitive handicaps and winning each time.
Paddy Murray, head lad at Dreaper's, could see
improvement in Arkle every day: "We went to Chelten-
ham for the '64 Gold Cup convinced that our horse was
better than Mill House. Ayear earlier Fortria had run
well against Mill House in the Gold Cup even though
unsuited by the heavy going. And we knew how much
better Arkle was."
As the race drew near Pat Taaffe became uneasy.
He fully believed in Arkle but he knew about Mill House
and knew the people who considered him likely to win
five Gold Cups. Two unbeatable horses. Somebody had
to be on a loser. Taaffe thought Arkle would win but
still felt uneasy.
Frightened by the presence of Arkleand Mill House,
most of the best chasers of the day steered clear of the
1964 Gold Cupo Only Pas Seul and King's Nephew stood
their ground and their presence owed more to prag-
matism than courage: prize money for third and fourth
places had to be collected.
OUR HORSES, BUT ONL y TWO counted:
F
"It did not matter how many went to the start
that day," says Willie Robinson, "it was always
going to be a match between our horse and
Arkle. I was sure I was on the better horse but
there was so much talk about Arkle that, deep
down, I too was uneasy."
As anticipation of the greatest confrontation in stee-
plechasing grew, it took on an international dimensiono
Mill House became England, Arkle stood for Ireland.
For a month or two, the fate of two nations appeared
to rest on the shoulders of two wonderful racehorses.
Johnny Lumley must have been a little troubled as
he turned in on the night of 6March. The conversation
in the stableboys' canteen .frightened him. Was Mill
House that good? He thought of the 16-stone man from
Brabazons and the Lambourn boys: "You know what,
Mill House could win with you riding him."
Next morning Johnny was up at 6.30, preparing for
Arkle's morning exercise at the course. Tom Dreaper
always insisted that Pat Taaffe went along and rode
Arkle at exercise. The horse was fine. Only Mill House
stood between him and where the Dreaper stable
believed he should be.
After exercising Arkle, Pat Taaffe returned to the
Carlton Hotel in Cheltenham where he ate a big break-
fast: "1 never had any trouble with m)' weight and after
riding out there was nothing I liked more than a break-
fast where late enough to take me through the day."
At around midway Pat left the Carlton and strolled
up to the racecourse. At Cheltenham he liked to walk
from the hotel to the course. Different people stopped
and offered a lift but he refused. Willie Robinson had
his breakfast that morning at his lodgings in Saxon
House, Lambourn before he set off alone for Chelten-
hamo
Back at the Dreaper stables in Kilsallaghan, Paddy
Murray allowed a few of the lads to slip down to the
local bookmakers. Part or all of their wages were going
on Arkle. Close to the start of the race Murray and all
the lads in the yard went indoors to watch television.
Twelve-year-old Jim Dreaper, the son of Arkle's
trainer, worried that he would not get to see the Gold
Cup. He was a boarder at Headfort preparatory school
and the headmaster was not a noted racing enthusiast.
The boys could only see television at appointed times
and Saturday afternoon was not on any schedule. One
of the teachers, Jack Sweetman, interceded on Jim's
behalf and the rules of the school were suspended for
ten minutes.
In the weighroom Pat Taaffe spoke to the English
jockey Dave Dick: "Dave told me to wait with Arkle,
not to produce him until the very end and that Arkle's
acceleration would beat Mili House, I had come to the
same conclusion and that was how I intended to ride
him."
As the four horses for the Gold Cup walked around
the parade ring a snow storm blew up and Cleeve Hill,
which overlooks the racecourse, was obliterated from
view. Just as quickly as the storm carne, it abated. AII
was clear as the horses paraded in front of the stands
and then cantered down to the start.
Mili House was the better-Iooking of the two; for
a big horse he moved majestically or, as Willie Robinson
said, "like the horse they had been trying to breed for
years". That Mili House was considered unbeatable can
be taken from the prices offered: 13/8 on the big horse,
7/4 against Arkle.
Robinson moved Mili House straight into the lead,
his rival happy to lie five six lengths behind in third place.
Pas Seul divided the two and King's Nephew raced to
stay in touch with the other three. Mili House jumped
spectacularly, surging away from his fences a length or
two to the good. Arkle jumped well but without the flam-
boyance of the favourite.
Through the first circuit Mili House led from Pas
Seul, Arkle and Great Nephew, Early on the second cir-
cuit Robinson asked Mili House to race a little faster, .
Dave Dick pushed Pas Seul to keep in touch, Taaffe .
did not have to move a muscle on Arkle and, already,
Stan Mellor was losing his battle with King's Nephew.
With a mile to run, Arkle began to fight with Taaffe.
He wished to go up alongside the big horse, the jockey
did not consider the time appropriate and Arkle was
restrained. Going to the fourth last fence Mill House
still led but Arkle was closing. Pas Seul and King's
Nephew were nowhere to be seen.
Cheltenham's third-last fence must be taken as the
horses race downhill and is often the scene of crashing
falls. Robinson drove Mill House down the hill and
together they surged into the third-last, Arkle's superior
speed took him to within a length of his opponent as
they approached that fence.
Suddenly, it was as if Taaffe instinctively remem-
bered what had happened in the Hennessy Gold Cup
three months earlier. Ten strides before the third last
he checked his horse ever so slightly but enough to allow
Mili House to jump it first and on his own. Arkle then
popped over it. On landing safely Taaffe knew the race
was his and he was prepared to go with Arkle from that
point.
They raced up to Mili House approaching the sec-
ond-last, both horses jumped it together and both still
had plenty to give. Looping around the final bend at
Cheltenham Robinson's right hand could be seen move
away from his horse's shoulders in search of room to
use his whip. He hit Mill House five cracks, the big horse
fought as only courageous horses can but it was no use.
Arkle had what racing men call a different engine.
He jumped the last a length ahead of Mill House and
flew up the hill to win by five. BBC commentator Peter
O'Sullivan concluded his description of the race with the
words "this is the champion, this is the best we have
seen for a long time."
After that victory, only a few loose ends needed to
be tied up. Arkle went on to prove himself the greatest
horse to have jumped fences, winning the '65 Gold Cup
by twenty lengths and the '66 race by thirty lengths. Pat
Taaffe had won the race but, under the terms of his bet
with Willie Robinson, owed his friendo He cancelled the
debt by paying for the airline tickets when Willie and
his wife Susan went to Paris and Sardinia on their honey-
moon.
And Johnny Lumley? It all ended well for Arkle's
lado He was tending to his star that evening when the
Lambourn lads carne along. They wanted to see the new
champion. Better late than never, thought Johnny. e

\
OEL MURPHY HAS A PROB-
N lem. He has to live in Ireland. Not
that he would choose to live any-
where else. As aman from Cork, he loves
the place. The snag is that six months
ago, the Four Home Unions made him
one of the four selectors for the British
Lions Rugby tour of Australia in the
summer of 1989.
What's wrong with that, you may ask?
Free travel to watch all the big games.
Free hotels. Freebies every weekend.
Sometimes, midweek freebies as well.
Luxury board and lodging al! the way
through. If that is purgatory for Noel
Murphy, most of Ireland would happily
change places with him, even if Ireland
by JOHN REASON.
did lose three of their four games.
No. Murphy's problem is that as he
is Ireland's selector for the British and
Irish Lions tearn, his country will expect
him to get sorne Irish players on the tour,
and the truth is that none of thern, not
one, are good enough to be choices for
the Lions' second team, never mind the
first.
Six months ago, it looked as if it aH
might have been so different. In Philip
Matthews, Ireland had not only an
apparently certain choice for the blind
side flank position in the Lions team, but
a possible choice as captain as well.
Now that has all gone. Matthews'
appointment as Ireland's captain seems
to have ruined his game. He is no great
captain, as Ireland's lamentable per-
formance against England showed, and
aboye all, the pressures of captaincy have
weighed down Matthews to such an
extent that he is only a shadow of the
player he was last season. From
England's squad alone, if merit was the
only consideration, four blind side flank-
ers would rank ahead of him.
Murphy, as an ex-Lions' coach, must
know that as well as anyone. He must
know that none of Ireland's team would
get into England's second tearn, never
mind that of the British and Irish Lions.
If you doubt my word, just have a
glance at the scoreboard, as Magnus
March 1989 M A GIL L 51
Magnusson is very apt to say. Y ou could
name at least two England second teams
which are about the same level, but run
your eyes down this one. Simon Hodg-
kinson; Andrew Harriman, Fran
Clough, J arnie Salmon, Mark Bailey;
Stuart Barnes, Richard Harding; Gary
Pearce, John Olver, Gareth Chilcott,
Nigel Redman, Bob Kimmins, John
Hall, Gary Rees (or Peter Winterbot-
torn), Dean Ryan.
Not one pi ayer in Ireland could be
sure of getting into that team.
How Noel Murphy rnust sigh, there-
fore, that the Four Horne Unions, in
their infinite lack of wisdom, stuck to the
age old formula of inviting one, er, well,
how shall we put it, distinguished has-
been from each country to pontificate
upon the construction of the Lions team
instead of appointing the coach and let-
ting him get on with it, as they do in all
the really advanced rugby nations.
That system is logical and it is sensible
and it works. Powerful disqualifications,
all of those, for British and Irish rugby.
But had those parameters applied, Noel
Murphy couldhave stood on the side-
lines and spread his hands and shook his
head at the selection of a Lions tearn
without a single Irish player in it. But
now, as 1 say, his country will see it as
a situation in which it is down, or up,
to Noel Murphy and he has to live with
it.
The one bit of good news that Ireland
had all season carne from England in the
shape of referee Roger Quittenton.
When he mis sed a deliberate knock-en,
and the off-side, of David Irwin which
enabled Ireland to escape from Cardiff
Arms Park with a victory, instead of, at the water line by those two matches, too. at half time, but Finlay Calder, Scot-
best, a draw, Mr Quittenton created a Dean had a Lions tour for the taking. land's captain, could afford to be philo-
situation in which Ireland could say, Jonathan Davis had turned professional. sophical about that. He knew that in that
"Well, we know we'rr. awful, but Wales Mark Ring was injured and out for the wind, a two point lead would not be
are even worse. An-, you could hardly season. England had a fly-half who can- nearly enough. And nor was it.
have a Lions team -vithout any Irish OR not play or kick goal for little apples. So Craig Chalmers the kid it was who
Welsh players init, True. True. Scotland, desperately trying to fill the walked off the pitch at Murrayfield, and
1 rnust say tha; Ireland always looked black hole left by the retirement of John John Wayne, in the shape of Paul Dean,
as if they had sorne sort of a chance of Rutherford had to throw a green young- was left lying in the middle of Main
winning in Cardiff, beca use the place' ster in at the deep end. Street. Noel Murphy 1 imagine, was in
does not give them the psychological But Dean blew it. Adrnittedly, he was tears. Matthews gone. Dean gone. Gus
creeps as it does to, say, England. But given no chance by England, who Aherne upstaged by Gary Armstrong.
Ireland were immensely fortunate that, slammed the door on the Irish forwards Michael Kiernan left for dead by a di s-
due to nothing other than unbelievably so tightly that Dean might as well have tinctly pedestrian Iwan Tukalo (there are
inept selection, Wales have had to strug- watched the match on television. But he at least SIX English wings better than
gle throughthe season with a back row DID have a wonderful chance to walk Tukalo). What straws were there left for
just as bad as Ireland's, 1 imagine that down the main street at Murrayfield and Murphy to grasp?
the entire Welsh back row fraternity is win his shoot-out with Craig Kid. But In truth, there were none. Only pleas
still shaking its head about that 70 yard Paul Dean lost that too. for charity. Consolation prizes. There
run, initially exploratory, eventually dis- He had hal. a gale behind him in the was nothing more. You could not even
believing, and at all times unchallenged, first half, bu, instead of seeing just how call it horse trading, beca use at the
which presented Ireland's number eight far he couk' kick the ball down the wing, moment, Ireland had no rugby horses to
with his try at Cardiff. and forcir.g Scotland to return the ball trade. Their bloodstock bank is busto
But all four wheels then carne off with short an. give Ireland the throw, he So as long as we understand that any
a clatter. England buried Ireland in Dub- kicked so badly that he let Scotland score Irish player selected for the Lions tour
lin and Ireland's back row was obliter- 19 poi.its in the first half playing INTO would have to be an act of charity, who
ated by the Scots at Murrayfield. the w.nd, IJi that first half hour, Irtland's can hope for the Maundy money? (The
Paul Dean's chances of selection for defence scarcely existed. team is due to be announced that week.)
the Lions tour were badly holed below Ireland did come back to lead 21-19 Well, a couple of weeks ago, the first
man up with his hand out would have
been hooker Steve Smith. He is big and
the Lions will need someone very big and
strong to stand up, literally, to Tom
Lawton and his brother in the Australian
front row.
But ... but ... small though he is,
England's hooker, Brian More, has
made signifieant progress in the last
month, and as long as toueh judges, who
ought to know better, let him walk all
over the field, as he does, whenever he
throws in, he might be difficult to leave
out, particularly if England win in Car-
diff in the' last ~ateh of the sea son and
carry off the international cham-
pionship. That, of eourse, is a very big
if, partieularly with Rob Andrew kicking
at goal, and the entire Welsh nation pros-
trate on their prayer mate.
Still. 35 years of steadily acquired
cynicism tell me that Steve Smith has to
get the nodo Who else? Well, no one
really. 1 suppose that Philip Matthews
might still be given a place, but he is
enough of a realist to admit that the way
he has been playing this season, he would
be very, very lucky.
Now that Gus Aherne and Paul Dean
have opened the door for Robert Jones,
Gary Armstrong, Dewi Morris and
Craig Chalmers, the only Irish back who
is in with a shout, or even a whisper, of
Lions selection is Brendan Mullin. His
two tries against Scotland would have
helped, but he too will know that on
merit, at least four England centres
ought to be chosen ahead of him, and
that is not counting Scott Hastings, of
Seotland. But again, those 35 years that
1 have mentioned tell me that Mullin will
get a Lions blazer.
So you see Noel Murphy's dilemma.
The ehickens are coming home to roost.
Can he go on living in Cork if Ireland
get only two players on the 1989 Lions
tour of Australia? Somehow I doubt it.
The other Lions seleetors will let him
off the hook. In my time as a rugby
writer, ten Lions teams have been eho-
sen, and seven of them have had the
wrong captain to start with. Indeed, half
of them have been sueh unqualified dis-
asters that the only perceived constant
in selection for the British and Irish
Lions has been that those doing the job
have never been able to pick even their
noses.
The same thing will happen this year,
and once again, the Lions will start by
getting the eaptain wrong, beeause they
will choose Scotland's Finlay Calder,
despite the fact that he is turned 30 and
despite the faet that positionally, he is
a six and a half. England have three
number sevens - Andy Robinson, Gary
Rees and Peter Winterbottom - who are
better open side flankers than Calder,
and the various eountries between them
ha ve about seven or eight blind sides who
would have to rank in front of Calder
as the sort of player who is physically
big enough to do the essential job behind
the middle jumper in the lineout. Calder
is a nice, wry, down to earth sort of fel-
low, who would be good value at the
press conferences, but as yet, there is no
such position as six and a half on the
rugby field. So he is bound to be
appointed. Alex Wyllie, of the All
Blacks, would laugh his head off, but
take it from me, it will happen, and it
will open the door on a room full of com-
promises.
I am sure Noel Murphy will enjoy his
retirement in Cork.
 NVESTMENT HAS
I long been seen as the key
to economic progress. In
their different ways, Adam
Smith, David Ricardo, Karl
Marx and Maynard Keynes
saw business investment as
the crucial determinant of
economic and historical.
evolution.
Despite their differing
interpretations, all accepted
that investment would
enhance productive capacity
and by so doing, would
accelerate economic devel-
opment.
For Smith, capital
accumulation provided the
cash to finance investments
in specialisation through the
division oflabour. Specialis-
ation relea sed a great
increase in prodctivity
which translated into higher
levels of output.
For Ricardo, high levels
of profitability were essen-
tial as a mean s of inducing
investment by businesses.
Additions to plant and
rnachinery would raise out-
put per person employed,
thus making society richer.
Accepting the basic
Ricardian premise, Marx
gave this analysis a new
twist. Capital competition
foced firms to invest in lab-
our-saving equipment, the-
r e 'b y i n e r e a sin g
unmployrnent, In turn,
higher levels of unemploy-
ment would lead to a falling
rate of business profit and
anincreased incidence of
bankruptcy. Such periodic
crises would lead to the
gradual monopolisation of
industry.
Monopolisation would
weaken the competitive
impera tive to invest, profits
would fall further and suc-
cessive unemployment crises
would become deeper. Marx
was thus a pioneer in for-
mulating theories of the
trade cyc1e.
Keynes, in dismissing
the view that economies
were inherently self-correct-
ing, accepted that they
could get stuck at a level of
economic activity which was
associated with high levels
of unemployment and low
Poor value
for investment
By Paul
levels of output. For Key-
nes, stimulating the level of
investment, either in the
public or the private sector,
was a means of lifting stag-
nant economies out of
periods of slump at the bot-
tom of the trade cyc1e.Key-
nes is thus seen by many as
having provided at least a
partial solution to the crisis
in capitalism described as
inherent by Marx.
Each of these theories
was fashioned in response to
particular sets of economic
, heard in the presento Does
Tansey
.stocks and shares as being
part of an enterprise's cur-
conditions. Thus, Smith's
emphasis on the division of
labour reflected the early
evolution of the factory sys-
tem in the second half of the
18th century. Ricardo's
views mirrored the increa-
singly competitive nature of
business in the early years ' end; consumption is an end
of the 19th century. Marx's
theories were developed
against the background of
increasing industrial con-
centration and more volatile
swings in the trade cycle.
Keynes wrote the General
Theory in the shadow of the
slump of the 1930s.
While these theories
were products of their time,
their reverberations can be
investment make the
country richer' by enhancing
its productive potential or
does it inevitably lead to
technological unemploy-
ment? Can government-
induced additions to invest-
ment raise output and
employment in a single
economy or are the effects
dissipated through a widen-
ing of the balance of pay-
ments deficit?
The term 'investrnent'
itself is open to many inter-
pretations. Many people
speak of their portfolios of
their investments. Money
spent on education and the
acquisition of skills and
knowledge is often referred
to as investment in human
capital. Sorne people even
refer to the bets they place
on horses as being "invest-
ments".
Business investment,
however, is of two types.
First, there is capital invest-
ment in fixed assets such as
factories, plant and machin-
ery. Second, there is invest-
ment in stock s of finished
and semi-finished products,
ren! assets.
Capital investment rep-
resents the purchase of fixed
assets with the objective of
generating a stream of
income in the future. Such
capital investments are thus
a means to an end rather
than an end in themselves.
Factories are not built for
social or aesthetic reasons,
but as a means of producing
profitable output in the
future. In a sense, this is
what differentiates invest-
ment from consumption,
Investment is a means to an
in itself.
It is not only the private
sector, however, which
engages in fixed asset invest-
ment. At the level of both
central government and
local authorities, the state is
a significant contributor
the overall level of capital
investment in the Irish eco n-
omy.
The state's capital
spending can be 'ciassified
into three distinct cornpo-
nents. First, the sta te invests
in productive infrastructure
through the building
roads, energy and telecom-
munications systems. Sec-
ond, there are state capital
investments in particular
economic sectors such as
industry, agriculture,
estry, fisheries and tourism.
Third, the state invests in
social in fr a s t r u c tur e
through capital spending pro
grammes on housing, edu-
cation and health.
While public capital
spending undoubtedly does
raise the productive
capacity of the economy, it
differs from private sector
business investment in one
crucial aspecto As a general
rule; the private sector will
only make a capital invest-
ment where it is reasonably
certain that it will capture
a profitable return on that
investment. This holds
beca use the only justifica-
tion for investing in the first
place is in order to genera te
a stream of future income.
In the public sector, the
state tends to capture a neg-
ligable or low rate of return
on the investments it under-
takes. This occurs because
the state often makes bad
investments, beca use many
of its investments are social
rather than commercial in
character and even where
profitable, the rate of return
generated tends either to be
diffused throughout
society or it is cap tu red by
individuals or groups rather
than by' the state itself.
Thus, public investment in
roads yields time savings to
businesses transporting
goods by road and to pri-
vate motorists. In the asen ce
of state toll roads,
government earns no direct
return on its investment.
Adding together
annual flows of public sec-
tor and private sector capi-
tal spending on fixed assets
gives the total for gross
domestic fixed capital for-
mation (GDFCF) each
year. While investment
56 M A GIL L March 1989
to intuitively easy to grasp,
analytically it can trick the
unwary, so it is worth
watching the following
points.
First, investment is often
in the eye of the beholder.
Whether a good is ciassified
as fixed investment or per-
of sonal consumption is largely
a matter of intention. Thus,
a dishwashing machine pur-
chased by a household is a
consumer durable good;
purchased by a restaurant,
for- it is part of fixed capital
investment. Similarly, a car
purchased by a private
motorist is an outlay on cur-
rent consumption; pur-
chased by a company
exciusively for the business
use of its commercial travel-
lers, it represents an item of'
business investment. There
is one exception, however.
Housing is always treated as
capital expenditure.
Second, annual flows of
capital spending on fixed
assets are gross ra ther than
net figures. They represent
additions to the stock of
capital. But theexisting
stock of capital is subject to
wear and tear and obsoles-
cence. The annual flows of
investment spending reveal
nothing about the
depreciation or wear and
tear of the existing capital
stock. It is thus possible for
investment to be negative in
years of poor economic per-
formance. This occurs
beca use the flow of new
investment spending
insufficient to compensate
'. for the wear and tear on the
existing capital stock.
Third, in the business
the sector, spending on fixed
assets is always investment
but not all investment
accounted for by spending
on fixed assets. As noted
earlier, though part of cur-
rent assets, stocks of fin-
ished and semi-finished
goods al so represent invest-
the ment, even though stockpil-
ing may be involuntary.
Thus, changes in stocks
the from year to year -inciud-
ing agricultural intervention
stocks - are added to
Gross Domestic Fixed
Capital Formation to yield
figures for Gross Domestic
Physical Capital Formation.
is Since stock changes can be
negative as well as positive, sequent on high levels of
gross investment in the investment should provide
economy can be diminished markets at home and
by negative changes in abroad for the additional
stocks. output the economy can
Finally, sorne very produce.
important business invest- The links in the investment
ments are not treated as part chain should thus be seen as:
of investment at all. high investment leads to
A firm can spend years productivity gains. Pro-
-and millions of pounds - ductivity gains allow more
building a secure ni che in its output to be produced at a
market through advertising lower relative costo Gains in
and marketing expendi- competitiveness result
tures. Such investrnents in which allow the additional
brand s meet the criterion of output generated to be sold
an investment decision, on foreign and domestic
since the objective is to com- markets. Increased sales of
mand and future stream of output raise the national
income through premium economic growth rateo
pricing and market security. Table 1 traces the links in
Yet such expenditures do this chain for the Irish econ-
not rank either as assets in omy over the past decade.
the balance sheet or as From Table 1, three facts
investments from the eco n- are immediately and di s-
omists' perspective. Since a turbingly obvious.
brand is an intangible asset, First, the national invest-
it is left out altogether. The ment ratio was very high
stockmarket alone takes during the late 1970s and
cognisance of business early 1980s. Gross Domestic
investments in brand leader- Fixed Capital Formation
ship and brand leaders will (GDFCF) reached a peak at
invariably stand at a pre- 31.8% of Gross National
mium on their asset back- Product in 1979. Over the
ing. five years 1978 through
INVESTMENT AND 1982, gross investment in
ECONOMIC GROWTH Ireland averaged 30% of
From the vantage point of Gross National Producto
the economy as a whole, During this period, the Irish
high levels of investment investment ratio compared
should -directly and indi- favourably with that of
rectiy - raise its productive Japan.
potential. A high ratio- of Second, gross investment in
gross annual investment to Ire1and deciined drama ti-
Gross National Product, cally as the 1980s pro-
when sustained over a num- gressed. As the recession
is ber of years, should be asso- deepened, the private sector
ciated with high rates of had little incentive to under-
economic growth. There are take new investments. In the
two reasons for this. First, pub1ic sector, the first steps
high rates of investment towards fiscal adjustment
should make it possible to were taken from 1983
produce more output. onwards by paring back
is Investrnent raises the sharply on public capital
capacity of the economy to spending. The interplay of
produce. these two factors resulted in
Second, sustained high lev- gross investment declining
els of investment should by 12.5 percentage points of
lower unit production costs, GNP. From its peak at
in terms of the physical pro- 31.8% of GNP in 1979,
duction of output, in terms gros s fixed investment had
of distribution and of corn- deciined to 19.2% of GNP
munication. Lower relative by 1988.
uni t prod uction costs Third, the p'erformance of
should b~' reflected in gains economic growth over the
in competitiveness against decade was abysmal. Once
the economies of trading the second oil shock of
partners, thus giving access 1979/80 had induced an
to larger market shares at international recession, the
home and abroad. Thus, Irish growth rate fell away
these competitive gains con- quickly, notwithstanding
 the fact that initially, invest-
ment 'remained high. TABLE 1
Despite the recovery in the IRISH INVESTMENT 1978-1988: LOTS OF SPENDING BUT L1TTLEGROWTH ...
world economy from 1983 Year Gross National Gross Investment Productivity Real GNP
onwards, the recession in Product(GDFCF, IRf:M) Ratio: (National: Rate (output
(IRf:M) (GDFCF/GNP) GNP/Jobs) method)
Ireland deepened. Measur-
1978 6,529 1,862 28.5% 2.9% 8.2%
ing Irish GNP by the output 1979 7,634 2,430 31.8% -0.4% 3.3%
.method - the most appro- 1980 9,003 2,718 30.2% 1.7% 0.8%
priate measure in these cir- 1981 10,854 3,350 30.9% 3.5% 1.5%
cumstances - the economy 1982 12,454 3,531 28.4 % -0.9% -2.7%
only managed to grow at an 1983 13,602 3,414 25.1% 0.3% -0.8%
annual average rate ofO.3% 1984 14,844 3,553 23.9% 2.4% 2.7%
in the years 1980 through 1985 15,654 3,457 22.1% 2.1% -2.2%
1987, and this despite a sig- 1986 16,586 3,449 20.8% -1.8% -1 .2%
1987 17,829 3,439 19.3% 4.9% 5.4%
nificant recovery in 1987
1988e 18,435 R3,536 19.2% 0.6% 1.25%*
itself. Thus, Ireland received Sources: Nationallncome & Expenditure, 1986, 1987, Tables 2,4,15. Central Statistics
very poor value for its Office, Dublin.
investment spending over OECD Economic Surveys 1987/88 Ireland, OECD, Paris, December 1987. See page 118
the past decade; there was for national productivity figures. These have been updated.
Iittle output punch for Ire- Central Bank of Ireland Quarterly Bul/etin No 4, 1988 for estimates of economic perform-
land's investment pound. ance during 1988. *GNP growth rate is expenditure-based.
We may have been investing TABLE 2
at Japanese rates, but we A COMPARISON OF INTERNATIONAL INVESTMENT RATIOS
were not rewarded with 1982-1988
Japanese-style growth. Gross Fixed Capital Formationb as a % GDP/GNP (*)
Perhaps the most worrying Ranking Country INVESTMENT RATIOS
b y
aspect of all is the fact that Wealth
there has been a very weak 1982 1985 1986 1987 1988
relationship .between the (2) United States* 15%*-
investment ratio and the * 19% 18%15%*-
national economic growth *15%*-
rateo This observation *
appears to hold whether (8) Japan* 29% 28% 28% 29% 30%
investment's impact is (9) Denmark 16% 19% 21% 19% 18 %
assessed on an immediate ~r (10) '!Vest Germany* 20% 20% 20% 20% 20%
(13) France 21% 19% 19% 19% 20%
a lagged basis. (14) Netherlands 18% 19% 20% 20% 2 1%
Thus, the investment boom (17) United Kingdom 16% 17% 17% 17% 18%
over the five years ending (18) Belgiurn 17% 15% 16% 16% 17%
1982 neither produced much (23) Italy 19% 21% 21% 21% 22%
growth at the time nor in (27) IRELAND* 28% 22% 21% 19% 19%
subsequent years. The extra- (28) Spain 21% 19% 20% 22% 24%
ordinary corollary of this (29) Greece 19% 19% 18% 17% 18%
argument is that when (37) Portugal 32% 21% 23% 26% 29%
investment declined, this did *Gross investment as a % GNP; all others, as % GDP.
**Private sector investment only.
not have much impact on
Sources: Ranking by wealth (1985) by GNP per capita in
the growth rate either; it US $ for all countries reporting to the World Bank. World
remained uniformly poor Development Report, 1987, World Bank, Washington, DC.
until 1987. Then, in 1987, Investment ratios for 1982 calculated from OECD Economic
economic growth bounced outtook, No 40, OECD, Paris, December 1986.
back to the highest level nvestrnnt ratios 1986-1988 calculated from OECO Econ-
recorded since 1978 despite omic Outlook, No 44, OECD, Paris, December 1988.
the fact that the investment TABLE 3
ratio, having fallen steadily, THE COMPOSITION OF GROSS FIXED INVESTMENT FLOWS IN IRELAND 19781987
was at its lowest level for a Gross Domestic Fixed Capital Formation in IR.fM and as % GNP 1978-1987
decade. Category 1978 1979 1980 1981 1982 1983 1984 1985 1986 1987
Whatever about the quan- Dwellings 401 558 578 709 759 787 805 795 823 n.a.
tity of Irish investment over Roads 37 47 57 78 99 121 126 153 164 n.a.
-Other Building 411 611 772 9671,090 864 859 733 708 n.a.
the past decade, there was
c1early something wrong Construction Investment 849 1216 1407 1754 1948 1772 1790 1681 1695 1617
with its quality; for it simply " As % GNP 13.0%15.9%15.6%16.2%15.6%13.0%12.1%10.7%10.2% 9.1%
did not translate from Transport Equipment 291 355 312 404 356 375 404 428 504 n.a.
spending on capital goods Farm Machinery 115 116 71 85 78 79 86 96 89 n.a.
to a consequent increase in Other plant & Machinery 607 743 928 1107 1149 1188 1273 125211 61 n.a.
retained doniestic output or Total plant & Machinery
growth. The transformation Investment 1013 1214 1311 1596 1583 1642 1763 1776R175-
of investment into growth 4 1822
went badly awry; there was - As % GNP 15.5%15.9%14.6%14.7%12.8%12.1%11.8%11.4%10.6%10.2%
a ghost in the investment Total Fixed Investment 1862 2430 271833503531 3414 3553 3457 3449 3439
machi ne. Sources: Nationallncome & Expenditure, 1986, 1987, Table 15, Central Statistics Office,
The productivity link in the Dublin.
investment chain also per-
formed poorly at a national idends in terms of enhanced began a long, tapering S~O<.'C at rzs: over 10% of
level over the past decade. growth. Here, the contrast decline from 1982 onwards. GXP.
Following the OECD, with Britain could not be By 1987, it had fallen to 9% Plaa; = machinery
national productivity relates more striking. With a much of GNP. investzaent, ;:~hhc and pri-
national output trends to lower investment ratio, Bri- The very high level of va;e. ~;;:;.x relatively
the numbers at work in the tain has enjoyed boom con- investment in building and quickly 10 ~e':v"-murn in
economy. The poor per- ditions or most of the 1980s construction provides the iriteril~L.l0~~J econornic
formance of productivity while the Irish econorny first clue as to why Irelands activiry 2.J~ I~-:~_ In addi-
overall disguises significant remained stagnant. high investment ratio tion, ~e ro::;:ejoI: in the
variations at a sectorallevel. Third, even though the Irish yielded so little in terms of ea;-::- l<;~:()os of ;;;:;.~:. major
Agricultural productivity investment ratio had fallen economic growth. The state C' es=e=., ;:'0?:T.:T.e5 by
has grown sharply over the significantly between 1982 is the dominant force. st are ~:~r;,:l5~5. most
past decade if only beca use and 1985, it still remained directly and indirectly, in notach ~~. E::;.e ESB and
the drift away from the land aboye average by internatio- determining the level of con- Telecozi, 52111 ;:~: and
has been so pronounced nal standards. Since then, struction investment. Yet machiaery [::ili;e"lii:.e::con ti-
over these years. Similarly, however, Ireland has been much of the investment it nue :0 c.."d:;;:;.e even as
measured labour productiv- investing less, while almost supports in this sector is interaacczc, ~~"SS con-
ity in manufacturing indus- all other industrial countries social in character, as in the ditions ~~ tu p"{:k up.
try has risen very sharply have been investing more. case of housebuilding, the Tae ;;.e=''l0~ of the
over the past ten years. By In attempting to track construction of schools and business ~""CtO. ;:,o'ides a
the third quarter of 1988, where the decline in gross of hospitals. Such social seconc d= te :te low
Irish manufacturing indus- fixed investment occurred, it investmehts, while they may growtz :'ep.:..~ oa ~gh Irish
try was producing 92% is necessary to examine the raise the quality of life for investc.eat, 3:.:smesses
more output than in 1978 components of gross fixed beneficiaries in a very real oprate to =.'t!;r-15e profits.
while employing 17% less capital formation by cate- sense, have little immediate In lL...~---:::;:;:~~ ce.zas, new
people than a decade earlier. gory. The composition of impact on the economic capital ~'::L'':s \nll be
From this it appears that the Irish fixed investment flows growth rateo They are not acquirec _; io Lile point
weak trend in national pro- over the years 1978 to 1987 productive investments in where zae ~'-;c;:;'estment
ductivity was caused pri- is presented in Table 3. an economic sense. Simi- equals ~e '~=ied flow
marily by labour hoarding As shown in Table 3, annual larly, another large slice of of furure i;;:;.;:u;;;:;.eexpected
in the public sector, at least capital spending on fixed governrnent-backed con- from ~t w\;e,,<:e:ll. Mod-
until the recent pasto investment can be classified struction investment is allo- ero iheo:<es c; iavestment
Table 2 compares Ireland's into two broad categories: cated to roads, sanitary postulare :Z: czsiaesses are
investrnent performance expenditure on building/ services, airport and har- seeking to ~:: a desired
against that of other mern- construction and expendi- bour development. While profir-csaxurasc.g level of
ber-states of the European ture on plant/rnachinery/ such investments are essen- capital szock, :;:; favourable
Community, the United equipment. Over the past tial, capital spending on profi; e 0;:;'::1:10::1 s. such
Sta tes and Japan. The coun- ten years, total fixed invest- productive infrastructure, business..-"5 seek to add to
tries are ranked by their ment spending in Ireland offers a negligible direct their capital stock ay under-
wealth, measured by per has been divided almost cash rate of return to its ulti- taking net :le'" iavesunents.
capita GNP in 1985. Table equally between these two mate sponsor, the Govern- In this J:" ...L <te iavestment
2 illustrates three important types of investment spend- mento Where commercial
rates of return were gener-
process
a proeess'Tof
= be visualised as
conrinuing
trends. ing.
First, it bears out the con- Investment expenditure on ated, the benefits tended to capital stock ajustment,
tention that in the early building and construction be captured by 'free riders' wi th chaages i. 3. business' s
1980s, Ireland matched embraces housebuilding, rather than by the principal capita. stock - net new
Japan in terms of invest- roadbuilding and other investor. investment - beiag dictated
ment performance, but spending on bricks and In summary, it is difficult to by the availabilny of profit-
without achieving Japanese- mortar items such as fac- avoid the conclusion that able market opporrunities.
style growth rates. "tories. Almost half total too much investment was Three facrors "'ill influ-
As can be seen from the fig- construction investment allocated to construction ence invesrmeat decisions,
ures for 1982, Ireland's over the past decade has which did not, on purely decisions \, aich will be
investment ratio was been devoted to housebuild- economic criteria, generate reflected in the me of the
amongst the highest of all ing. commercial rates of return, firrns stock of capital
industrial countries in the Already high in 1978 at 13% which were ref1ected in an goods. in these conditions.
year the industrial world of Gross National Product, enhanced rate of economic These are: the COSi ofcapital
began to move out of reces- total investment in building growth. goods rhernselves: the rate
sion. At 28% of GNP, Ire- and construction continued The other half of fixed of interest which must be
land's investment ratio was to rise until 1981, when it investment spending was paid to fund capital goods
almost twice that of Britain, reached a peak at 16.2% of devoted to expenditure on purchases: and the future
where investment accounted GNP. At this level, Irish equipment, including profit streams which new
for only 16% of British investment in construction vehicles, industrial plant investments can command.
Gross Domestic Producto alone was equal to total and machinery. As a pro- In Ireland. the cost of
Second, despite Ireland's annual fixed investment in portio n of GNP, plant and capital goods is relatively
strong propensity to invest, Britain. As such, the machinery investment low. It is low because such
it did not participate in the amount of money being peaked in 1979 at just under acquisitions are subsidised
resurgence of economic spent on building invest- 16% of national income. by the sta te, directly and
growth enjoyed by most ment in Ireland was clearly During the 1980s, there has indirectly. Directly, sub-
other industrial countries unsustainable. It was not been a steady downward stantial capital grants are
from 1983 onwards. Irish subsequently sustained. drift in plant and machinery available from the Indus-
investment paid no div- Construction expenditure investment. By 1987, it trial Development
Authority for purchases of
fixed assets. Indirectly,
accelerated capital allo-
wances, which allow firms
to write off 50% of invest-
ment costs for tax purposes
in the first year, serve to
reduce the net cost of capital
goods. This allowance has
been restricted to 50% from
April 1st 1989. Prior to
1988, it stood at 100%.
The rate of interest
which firms pay on invest-
ment out1ays is now also
re1atively low in Ireland ..
First, interest payments are
allowed as an expense for
tax purposes. Second, the
financial engineering of
products such as preference
share financing and 'section
84' loans has greatly
reduced the cost of borrow-
ing to industry. Third, nom-
inal interest rates themselves
have fal1en sharply over the
past two years. Not only
does this reduce the nominal
cost of business borrowing,
but it reduces the 'oppor-
tunity cost' of such borrow-
ing, since lower .rates of
return are avai1able on alter-
native financial investments.
The third e1ement in the
investment equation is pro-
fitabi1ity. Profitability in
Ire1and is enhanced by low
rates of corporation tax and
a number of significant tax
breaks. Businesses operat-
ing in manufacturing and
international financial ser-
vices are subject to corpora-
tion tax at a maximum rate
of 10%, though effective
corporation tax rates are
lower due to the existence of
extensive tax allowances.
Moreover, the definition of
'rnanufacturing' has become
quite elastic, so that an
increasing number of
businesses qualify for the
reduced rate of corporation
tax. From April 1st 1989,
the standard rate of corpo-
ration tax wil1be reduced to
43%. Tax breaks have
inc1uded Export Sales Relief
with 100% tax-free div-
idends and 'Shannon' relief.
However, a benign tax
regime does not of itself
make industry profitable; it
simply allows businesses to
ho1d on to a 1arger share of
the corporate income it gen-
erates. In terms of underly-
ing profi ta bili t y , a
distinction must be made
between indigenous firms of
small and medium size serv-
ing the home market and
large multinationa1 firms
serving export markets from
an Irish base. The depressed
state of domestic demand
during the first half of the
1980s al1ied to the erosion
of competitiveness suffered
by domes tic producers
because of high inflation led
to low levels of aggregate
profitability being recorded
by domes tic businesses
operating in the home mar-
ket. Faced with, at best, a
static market and a declin-
ing market share, such
business es had little incen-
tive to invest at home.
Where investment did
take place, it tended to be
defensive, aimed at cost
containment rather than
output expansiono In addi-
tion, the depressed state of
home demand limited prof-
itable investment oppor-
tunities for large,
expansion-minded compa-
nies such as Smurfit,
Cement-Roadstone and
Crean.
Such companies were
forced to look abroad for
new profitable investment
opportunities. Thus, enter-
prise capital joined the flow
of emigrants seeking profit-
ab1e opportunities for
employment abroad.
However, much of the
machinery and plant invest-
ment in Ireland over the
past decade has been under-
taken by multinational -
and particu1arly US-based
-::- corporations, Such cor-
porations have enjoyed a
very high rate of return on
the capital they ha ve
employed in Ireland. Yet,
the benefits of high profita-
bility in this sphere have not
been reflected in the GNP
growth rateo
Many reasons are
advanced for the weak
relationship obtaining
between foreign direct
investment in Ireland and
theIrish rate of economic
growth. Amongst the most
prominent are the follow-
mg,
First, such multinational
companies tend to operate
as branches of their parent
corporations rather than as
stand-alone enterprises. As
a result, their linkages with
the domestic Irish economy
are relatively weak: they buy
inputs from head office
rather than from the local
economy, In consequence,
foreign firms are often seen
as operating in an enc1ave,
sealed off from Irish sup-
pliers.
Second, foreign subsi-
diaries of multinationa1
companies operating in Ire-
land enjoy free repatriation
of dividends, interest, royal-
ties and profits. Thus, a high
proportion of the profits
they record in Ireland are
repatriated or exported.
They are thus not available
to generate additional ecoIk-
omic growth in Ireland. The
extent of such profit repatri-
ation is significant and
accounts for a sizeable seg-
ment of the net outflow of
factor income from the
country. Since the outflow
of factor income represents
the difference between
Gross Domestic Product
and Gross National Prod-
uct, multinational profit
repatriation is direct1y
responsib1e for dragging
down the country's overall
rate of economic growth, as
measured by GNP.
Third, multinational
companies operating in Ire-
land may not be as profit-
able as they appear. Since
companies are profit-maxi-
misers and since tax is a
charge on profit, rational
companies wil1 seek to
locate international profits
in a low-tax environment.
Ireland provides just
such a low-tax environment
with the added attraction of
free repatriation. It is there-
fore possible that at least
sorne of the multinational
profits generated in Ireland
are illusory, a tribute to tax
efficiency rather than to the
generation of competitive
real output.
In summary then, the
efficiency of investment
undertaken in Ireland over
the past decade has been
extremely poor; it i; not
translated into high rates of
economic growth. At the
beginning of the 1980s, Ire-
land was investing as fast as
Japan, but without enjoying
Japanese growth rates. The
Irish investment ratio has
dec1ined continuous1y and
sharply inthe course of the
1980s.
By 1988, the flow of
investment was only three-
fifths as 1arge as it had been
a decade earlier. Perversely,
this decline in the Irish
investment ratio in recent
years has been associated
with a resurgence of econ-
omic growth. Again, this
tends to confirm the conten-
tion that the quality of J rish
investment in the late 1970s
and early 1980s was inferior
in terms of its contribution
to economic growth.
Three factors can be
advanced as tentative expla-
nations of this poor per-
formance.
First, there was excessive
investment in low-yielding
building and construction,
much of it financed by the
public sector. Many, if not
most, public sector invest-
ment projects did not obey
the basic investment deci-
sion rule that the expected
rate of return on investment
must exceed the cost of bor-
rowing the funds necessary
to finance the investment in
the first place.
Second, the recession in
domes tic demand for the
first half of the 1980slimited
investment opportunities
for the domestic private sec-
tor. Where such investment
was undertaken at home, it
tended to be defensive, seek-
ing to regain eroded com-
petitiveness by capital
deepening. As a result, the
output effects were limited.
At the same time, the
absence of investment
opportunities at home
forced much of the most
enterprising capital in the
country abroad in search of
profitable employment.
Third, the contribution
of foreign direct investment
to economic growth has
been poor, due to relatively
low linkages forged with
domes tic economic agents
and because of high levels
of profit repatriation. In'
terms of its growth contri-:
bution, foreign direct invest-
ment has failed to live up to
expectations.
As a result, the Irish
economy got 1ittlepunch for
its investment pound.

Roy Jenkins.
DISCREPTION IS NOT USUALL y
ASSOCIATED WITH associated with
Irish politicians but, in comparison with
their British counterparts, they are the
sole of same. Several British notables
have kept intimate (fairly) diaries and
have indiscreetly had them published,
usually to the embarrassment of their
former colleagues.
Garret FitzGerald is threathening to
do just that here as is Gemma Hussey.
Garret bas tbe makings of a good gossip
- certainly his wife, Joan, has few equals
in the league - and his memoirs should
be worth awaiting. Certainly. they
should be more absorbing than the twee
recollections of a political soul-mate of
his, Roy Jenkins, the former British
Chancellor of the Exchequer and Home
Secretary and former President of the EC
Commission.
Jenkins's diaries are a travelogue
through the finest restaurants in Europe
- he oozes from lunch to dinner, day after
day, throughout the book which covers
his period in Europe from 1977 to 1981.
But he has been able to remember suf-
ficently to provide sometimes intruiging
insights into the Great, the once Great
and the not-so-Great of Europe, many
of them (particularly the latter) Irish.
Herewith sorne excerpts of special
interest to Irish readers. (Text in brackets
are inserts by the present writer.)
6 January, 1977: (at the meeting of the
Commission to allocate the portfolios
between the new Commissioners) it
therefore looked by about 1O.30pm as
though we had a fairly complete solution
before us, subject only to the fact that
there was very little except a ragbag left
for (Richard) Burke, tbe Irish Commis-
sioner. 1 saw him a couple of times in
the late evening and offered him Trans-
port plus Consumer Affairs, with a
possibility of something else. He was
clearly unhappy, but sinece 1 am afraid
1 thought that as he was not very good
and as somebody was bound to be the
loser. ..I did not see there was a great deal
more 1could do'. (Evenatually at 4.30am
the following morning Burke agreed 10
what was indeed a ragbag of responsibi-
lities, with the sole exception of relations
with the European Parliament, which he
was subsequently to renounce.)
Friday, 20 May, 1977: Thirty minute
visit to the Commission office (in Dub-
fin), a rather splendid Georgian House
in Merrion Square, then to the Taoi-
seach's office for an hour's conversation
alone with him (Liam Cosgrave) , apart.
from Crispin (Tickell, his chef de cabi-
net) and one on his side...Again
impressed by him; he listens well, is
serious and takes in what is said ...
Back to the Dail for a call on Jack
Lynch. It was the beginning of the elec-
tion campaign. He was friendly and
modest but he gave me the impression
that he had very little chanceo
Thursday, 23 February 1978 4.45pm:
Met at Dublin airport by Michael O
Kennedy ( then a series of meetings with
Irish ministers before being driven back
to the airport for a lO.15pm flight).
Escorted out and on to the plane by an
extremely drunk (official of the Depart-
ment of Foreign Affairs ), who kept on
trying to tear up my airline tickets and
carne down the aisle of the aircraft to
say goodbye to me on, 1 thnk, four sep-
arate occasions, the lat two messages of
farewell being mysteriously delivered in
French.
 Then an hour with Jack Lynch in his
familiar old office in which 1 have often
seen him and Cosgrave before then. He
was sad to be going, obviously feeling
slightly that he had been pushed out. He
did not conceal his dismay at Haughey's
election but reminisced agreeably about
the past few years. A nice man but not
1 suppose an immensely dynamic or
effective one. However he has held the
leadership for thirteen years, has been
Prime Minister twice and has prevented
a lot worse things happening in Irish
politics. Nor am 1 convinced that Haug-
hey, who is odd, colourful and possibly
but not certainly dangerous, will be all
that bad.
Afterwards 1 tried to cobble together
a speech for the Trinity College dinner
that evening. 1 had an enjoyable convers-
tion with on one side F S L Lyons, the
Provost and biographer of Parnell and
the Professor of Greek on the other. The
whole occasion was very typically TCD,
which is quite good at trying to make
Oxford and Cambridge seem raher red-
brick.
Monday, 25 February 1980: 10.40
plane to Dblin. Drove straight to talk
alone with Haughey, the new Taoiseach
whom by a series of accidents 1 had never
met befare. (The most notable 'accident'
was in April 1070 when 1 went for an
Irish holiday after my last budget on the
day he was due to present his first
budget. In the event he claimed he fell
offhis horse in the courtyard ofhis house
and the then Taoieqach, Jack Lynch pre-
sented his budget instead of him. By the
time we got back from Ballylicky a week
later, when Haughey was suposed to give
us lunch, he had not only fallen off his
horse but been dismissed from the
Government and faced criminal charges
for gun-running, from which he was sub-
sequently acquitted, it should be said. So
Lynch gave us lunch instead.)
Found Haughey as 1 had been fore-
warned, extremely engaging. Much
quicker than previous Taoiseachs,
though perhaps (but 1 am not sure) less
trustworthy. Very well informed about
British politics, Dimbelby lecture etc.
Mostly agreeable gossip befo re lunch.
Thursday, 27 November 1981: Dublin
at 2.30 for a fairly intensive series of
Dublin farewell visits, beginning with
President Hillery, who would not let me
go, partly becaue he likes talking and
partly 1 think because he wanted to make
Charles Haughey.
me late for the Taoiseach. In any case
we went on long after the scheduled time
and 1 got to Haughey half an hour late.
1 had a reasonably constructive talk with
him and more or less cut, at his sugges-
tion, my meeting with Lenihan (the
Foreign Miister), who is a very nice man
and when 1 rushed in to apologise to him
said that he was giving me dinner and
it did not in the least matter. ..
Dined with Lenihan and various other
ministers. A thoroughly agreeable
occasion - 1 like Lenihan very much
indeed - and there was a lot of warmth
in his speech and a very good atmos-
here.
YOU'VE heard of the heavy gang ? And
Castlereagh ? And the explanations that
the authorities carne up with when the
activities were revealed ? Well, they aint
got nothing on how the Turkish authori-
ties deal with these matters. recently
Amnesty International saw reason to
comment in very unfavourable terms on
the treatment of political detainees in
Turkey. Their report alleged that 239
detainees had died in custody.
Not so, said the Turks. They've
investigated 146ofthe cases already. Ten
of those listed as dead are reported to
be alive and well, two are still in prison,
and one has been discharged. another
has escaped frorn prison and five of those
on the list have yet to be locked up but
will be as soon as the authorities get their
hands on them.
Next comes the interesting bit. "It
has been deterrnined", they say, that 34
of the people listed by Amnesty have
"comrnitted suicide", 42 have died of "il-
Iness or other natural causes" and 22
have been "shot deadwhile attempting
to escape from custody or having
engaged in clashes with security offi-
cers".
Of course.
AFTER the recent Israeli municipal elec-
tions Prime Minister Yitzhak Shamir
hailed the gains made by his Likud Party
at the expense of his Labour Party coal-
ition partners. A very pleased Mr Shamir
indicated that this would show the rest
of the world where the Israeli people
stood in relation to all that talk about
recognition of the PLO and an indepen-
dent Palestinian State. He was then
asked about the results in predominantly
Arab areas which saw support for more
militant public respresentatives. This he
saw as representing another episode in
the "cycle of extremism".

OPPOSITION TDs are totally baffled
by the logic used by Ceann Comhairle
Sean Treacy when he produces reasons
to stop them asking important questions
in the Dail. Take for example the con-
troversy over The Irish Sugar Company,
and the attempts by Michael Me Dowell
of the Progressive Democrats and Fine
Gael leader Alan Dukes to find out rel-
evant information from the Taoiseach
and Agriculture Minister Michael
O'Kennedy.
Both TDs asked very straight for-
ward questions hoping to establish who
knew what, when, and what use they
subsequently made of any information
they hado Although the questions were
designed, solely and specifically, to get
information the Ceann Comhairle ruled
them out of order on the grounds that
they "contained argument".
The questions asked the two mem-
bers of the Government if they had, or
had not, been given information, and
whether, directly or indirectly, they had
then acted on such information. There
was no argument about what they should
Sean Treacy.
have done, or should not have done.
It appears that Mr Treacy has two
sources for his ruling. The first is that
members of the Government can be
questioned solely about matters related
to their ministerial responsibility or
. about matters of administration for
which they are responsible. The second
yardstick is that the questions must
relate to matters of fact. It seems that
he decided in relation to the Sugar Com-
pany questions that, in addition to con- '
taining aerguments which were not
visible to the TDs who placed thern, they
did not have any factual basis.
It seems remarkable that where TDs
are trying to disco ver information that
the Ceann Comhairle should decide what
does and does not have a factual basis,
especially since he can then use his deci-
sion to prevent the questions getting on
to the Dail Order Paper.
If there is anything shady about the
whole controversy relating to Liam Law-
lor, Michael O'Kennedy and the Sugar
Company controversy it is they way in
which information has had to be
squeezed out of those involved. It is
amazing to find further obstacles in the
way of getting at the truth erected by the
Ceann Comhairle, whatever the pre-
cedents he may cite.
Raymond Crotty is not the only member
of the successful team which fought the
constitutional battle over the Single
European Act who will be standing for
election to the European Parliament in
June. AIso on the ballot paper, in
Munster, will solicitor Joe Noonan
whose submission on the work of the
foreign policy activities of the EC Coun-
cil of Foreign Ministers was actually the
crucial document which swayed
majority of the Supreme Court justices.
Noonan has the backing of an assort-
ment of left wing figures, environmental-
ists, and such well known academics as
John A. Murphy in his corner. In a fairly
colourless con test he could, like Ray-
mond Crotty, surprise the Dail parties
as both did when they took the Govern-
ment to court - and won.
Unless something untoward occurs
between now and then, the Dail wil1
adjourn for the Easter recess on Wednes-
day 15 March having sat for about 25
days in the period since Christmas. Their
break wil1 last until mid-April. More
than half the cabinet is likely to be out
of the country for St Patrick's Day
although the Taoiseach is among those
in a great rush back. Its a hard life.
HYPE is irrevocably wedded to heavy-
weight boxing. Without the pre-fight
publicity the business would flop. Even
with it, the result can be the same - the
Hilton Hotel lost money on Tyson-
Bruno fight beca use of empty seats. But
the hype is not without humour and the
participants have produced sorne mem-
roable quotes down the years. A new
book, The Book of Boxing Quotations",
lists sorne of the better ones. Not sur-
prisingly, Muhammed Ali, aka Cassius
Clay, provides sorne of tne highlights.
1 don't have nothing against them Viet
Congo Tbey never cal1 me nigger. IrI have
to die 1'11 die figbting for freedom here
- Ali refusing to be drafted
Boxing's a rougb sport. After every figbt
1 rusb to the mirror to make sure I'm pre-
sentable - Ali again
Tyson bit me on top of my bead in the
first round and it felt Iike my neck went
down to my bel1y button - Mike Jameson
after being stopped by Tyson
1 didn't want to go around mugging old
ladies or robbing banks, so I took up box-
ing - Frank Bruno
Wel1, tbat's cricket Harry. These tbings
bappen in boxing - Bruno commenting
on the defeat offellow British boxer Lloyd
Honeyghan
Everytime 1 bear the name Joe Louis my
nose starts to bleed - Tommy Farr who
took the world champion to a full 15
rounds
Sbakespeare ? 1 ain't never beard of him,
He's not in no ratings. 1 suppose be's one
of tbem foreign beavyweights. They're al1
lousy. Sure as belll'lI moider the bum -
1930s heavyweight contender Tony
Galento
1 forgot to duck - Jack Demspey
explaining why he was beaten by Gene
Tunney
a
BONO, the Edge and other luminaries
associated with U2 cannot be held
responsible for al1 the nonsense that gets
written about them but they must be as
amazed as the rest ofus about what does
make it into print. Take this little gem
from a Press Association caption accom-
panying a photo of the group.
"The band are waging a secret battle
against drugs and unemployment in
young people, and are said to own 50
companies purely to give youngsters jobs
in depressed Dublin and stop them fall-
ing prey to drug gangs. And the group's
singer, Bono, is said to be on an assissin's
(sic) hit list for attacking the IRA in the
film (Rattle and Hum)".