Session 2.

3 LAB
Stairway to Heaven
Tim Waldock, RevitCat

Class Description
This presentation will look at ways of wresting back control of Stairs and Railings
in Revit: It will show numerous tricks and tips for
for how to convert Revit Stairs
Stair &
Railings from Hell towards Stairways to Heaven, using only the system tools
available in the latest version of Revit.

Stairs and Railings were changed significantly in Revit 2013 & 2014; many of
those changes are hidden away, and are not well documented. The software
updates appear to be a work in progress and so a large number of
workarounds are required in order to use the new tools successfully. This
presentation aims to teach the best techniques to get workable results, and to
go through those workarounds to resolve the glitches.

In the process we will use various techniques in Revit:

Will explain tricks for using new Stair & Railing features in Revit;
Will demonstrate practical examples
exampl of their use;
How to avoid Railing Warnings;
Several methods for multi-storey
multi stairs;
Managing all the new type & instance settings

About the Speaker:

Tim Waldock has been using Revit since 2005, and is now a freelance Revit
consultant after being CAD/BIM
CAD/BIM at Allen Jack + Cottier, Scott Carver and then
PTW Architects in Sydney. He has worked with numerous other BIM and 3D CAD
programs over the past 30 years in the UK, Singapore and Australia, often
working closely with the software developers. He has attended all but two RTCs,
and has presented at 13 RTCs in Australia, New Zealand, USA, Canada & the
Netherlands. He attended two Revit Gunslinger events in 2011 at the Revit
headquarters in Boston and Manchester in the USA. He is Chairman
Chairman of the Revit
User Group Sydney (RUGS). He writes the technical Revit blog called RevitCat.
He is a Green Star accredited architect.
architect

http://revitcat.blogspot.com
Stairway to Heaven
Tim Waldock, RevitCat

Introduction - Take control of Revit Stairs

This lab will run through several exercises that will cover many tricky aspects of
the new stair tools and the associated old railing tools. Although the examples
may not be exactly what you need to do, they will cover tips and tricks that you
can use in many other different situations.

Topics that will be covered include:

Winder stairs
Sketch tools
Railing transitions,
Railing angles
Breaks in railings
Multistorey Landings
Overlapping railing sketch lines
Eliminate Warnings

The labs cover a lot of ground,

und, so you may not be able
able to complete every
exercise in
n full, but step by step guides are included below,, so you can refer to
them in the future.

After running through these exercises, hopefully

hopefully you will be able to master Revit
stairs in a way that you could not before.
before I have written a lot about the
shortcomings of the stair tools in my RevitCat blog:
http://revitcat.blogspot.com/2014/02/revit
http://revitcat.blogspot.com/2014/02/revit-stairs-railings-index-page.html
page.html
These lab exercises are not covered in the blog, although many similar issues
are, so you can refer to it for more help.

Lab Exercises
1. Exercise One: L-Shaped
Shaped winder stair to building codes.
codes
2. Exercise Two: Fixing the railings for the L-Shaped
L winder stair.
3. Exercise Three: Multistorey Stair and Railing

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Stairway to Heaven
Tim Waldock, RevitCat

Lab Exercises
Exercise One: L-Shaped
Shaped winder stair to Building
uilding Regulations

Local Building Regulations for winder stairs vary. If they allow winders at all, they
may stipulate a minimum or maximum number of winders in an L-shaped L stair.
The count of winders may be defined by risers or treads, so it may be confusing.
This handout will always refer to the count of treads. In this exercise we will
model the stairs with only two winder
win treads (one winder riser) - so that is our first
exercise. In the process itt will allow us to cover quite a number of other different
techniques and tricks.
Summary
If you try
ry using the Winder stair tool you can just about
out get it down to four
winder treads.. It is very tricky but possible to get to 3 winders (using reference
planes at very specific distances),
distances), and even then the winder point is outside the
stair (by at least 26.35mm) refer to the RevitCat blog for more information. It
wont let you go less than 3 winders.
winders

To achieve a stair with two winders, we need to resort to sketching the stair but
using the new stair sketch tools, not the old ones.
There are two possible methods:
Convert to Sketch
Start a sketch from scratch
We will use the Convert method as it demonstrates the winder stair tool on
the way.

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Stairway to Heaven
Tim Waldock, RevitCat

Part 1 - Creating a 3 Winder L-Shaped Stair

Create an L shaped winder using the winder tool

Change its properties to make
m it single point
Adjust it to get 3 winders using the minimum
mum dimensions for 900mm wide,
wide as
shown below

To achieve this you need to place some reference planes with the exact
dimensions shown above then snap the winder to those reference planes.
Closest the setout point will go is 26.375mm
26.3 5mm from the corner for a 900mm (for
other width stairs the dimensions are different)
different
It is impossible to get the setout point exactly on the inside corner
You will probably need to set the number of parallel treads to a minimum
while getting the run lengths right (which causes a crazy looking stair)

Change the winder properties to get the desired number of parallel treads

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Tim Waldock, RevitCat

Part 2 Modifying it to 2 Winders

Convert to sketch

It gives a warning read it

Select the run it has no shape handles or winder properties any more

Click on the Edit Sketch icon that is now available

Revit goes into sketch mode

Delete one of the winder risers, and adjust the remaining one to 45 degrees
drag two ends to corners (order is important)

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Tim Waldock, RevitCat

Complete the sketch it may give an error message,

if you dragged the outside corner first

Check the corners of the boundary in the process of moving the riser line it
may have caused a gap in the boundary

Trim the corners back. Note that Revit is fussy about the boundary creating
a closed loop, but it is pretty casual about the riser lines,
lines, which can happily
overlap or stop short of the boundary, providing they do not intersect each
other within the boundary enclosure

Adjust the riser line so

o that it meets the corner exactly
Once the sketch is complete your run should work fine with only 2 winders

On completion of editing the stair, you may get a railing warning message,
depending on the railing definition

Ignore the warning for now railings

lings will be addressed in exercise 2

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Tim Waldock, RevitCat

Revit may have difficulty creating the underside of

the stair depending on the exact dimensions and stair type

Part 3 Modifying the Winder Setout Point

Let us suppose that we want the winders to be set out exactly
exactly from the inside
corner of the stair (without the 26.375mm setback) even if that may not be
easy to build, they are sometimes documented that way.
Edit the sketch again, and move one set of riser lines in towards the setout
corner;; finish the sketch to check that it works before adjusting the other run

Note that the run line (blue) must not overhang the last riser otherwise you
will get a warning message

Strangely, Revit couldnt care less if the boundary lines and last riser
overhang but is fussy if they dont meet

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Tim Waldock, RevitCat

Adjust the other leg of the stair so the winders meet

exactly on the inside corner.

Complete the sketch, and it will give a very (un)helpful

helpful error message

For some reason it does not like the angled riser meeting exactly on the
outside corner
One way to get over this problem is to change the angle of the winder riser
so it does not quite meet the outer corner

When you try to complete the sketch you may get another error due to the
stair path being distorted by the riser angle change

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Tim Waldock, RevitCat

Trim the stair path to a corner (blue lines)

It should work this time. It may do a better job with the stair underside, but
maybe not so good on the railings see exercise 2 for this

You could edit the sketch again to get the angle closer to to 45 degrees, but at
a certain angle it will give a warning about line being slightly off axis. 45.25
seems to be the cut-offoff angle (NB. You may need to put in a temporary line
to snap to the end of about 8mm from the corner in this case).
case)

A better alternative,
lternative, is to put an angular dimension on the inside corner, and
stop the outside of the riser line short of the outside corner this allows you to
change the angle rather than the dimension to the end. You may get the
angle down to 45.21 before you get an error message

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Stairway to Heaven
Tim Waldock, RevitCat

Exercise 2 Railing for L-Shaped

L Winder
In exercise one, Revit will have automatically created railings for the winder
stairs. These will not be correct the angle of the outside railing will not be
parallel to the stair angle (although the inside railing probably will be ok).
ok

This is because the outside railing is created as a single rail and Revit does not
know how to deal with a railing on a winder.
winder

You may also get some nasty transitions at the corners. In this example the
handrail is done using a Top Rail component (new feature in v2013), which has
a gooseneck transition.

The first task is to get rid of the gooseneck transition:

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Tim Waldock, RevitCat

Part 4 Modifying the Railing Transition

Select the railing and look at its Type properties
prope

Note that the Top Rail is set to a family/type Rectangular 50x50mm

You cannot edit it directly from this dialog box you need to go t the families
in the Project Browser (Top Rail Type under railings)

Edit the type properties of the Top Rail

Ra

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Tim Waldock, RevitCat

Change the Transitions

ons from Gooseneck to Simple

This simplifies the junctions, making them slightly closer to real life

Part 5 Modifying the Railing Angle

The next step is to change the individual railings.
Edit Path of the outside railing (not top rail) in plan to see what Revit does

NB. When you select the railing, the Edit Path icon should appear on the
ribbon. If not, you may have selected the top rail (part of the railing), in
which case a pin symbol will be displayed;
displayed reselect
eselect the whole railing

In sketch mode, split the railing lines where the winders start;
start you will
probably need to split the shorter line too, att the top riser line of the winders
wi

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Tim Waldock, RevitCat

The railing will be at the correct angle on the main

run, although the angle on the winder may not be what you want

Assuming you want the handrail to be horizontal along the winder, Edit the
sketch again; move the split line over by one tread

This will make the section of railing along the winder horizontal, at the correct
c
start height

You may need to force the selected segment to be flat sometimes Revit
will get that right for you, sometimes not. If not, change the Slope setting
on the Options Bar to Flat

Part 6 Modifying the Railing Extensions

Australiann BCA regulations normally require the railings to extend beyond the
lowest riser to get the bottom of the railing at the correct height.

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Tim Waldock, RevitCat

Edit the outside railing again, and make the sketch

line 250mm longer (one tread width)

Note that although the railing

railing looks correct on top, the balusters do not go
down to the floor slab.
Do the same with the inside railing

You may get a totally different result, as the inside railing loses track of its host
and becomes horizontal

The railing will also disappear from the lower level plan it is still visible on the
level above

You could try editing the railing path again, and changing the slope setting
for the sketch line (Options toolbar), and force it to be sloped (instead of By

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Tim Waldock, RevitCat

Host) but this does not work

wor

To solve this you need to split the line at the lowest riser

Interestingly, this also fixes the balusters on the inside railing,, making them go
down to the floor

Part 7 Horizontal Railing Extensions

You may also want to add a horizontal section of o railing at the base edit
the inside railing path,, and extend the lower sketch line by 300mm

Note that you do not need to split the line again where it changes from
angled to horizontal Revit manages that ok
Edit the outer railing sketch and add a 300mm
300mm long line at the base

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Tim Waldock, RevitCat

The balusters are still not quite right on the outer

railing

To solve this you need to edit the sketch and move the split line to the lowest
riser line quite illogical but it usually does the trick

An alternative
lternative method is to use Extensions to the top rail but this is a global
setting (by top rail type), and gives a different result where the balusters stop
where the railing sketch lines stop:

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Stairway to Heaven
Tim Waldock, RevitCat

Exercise 3 Multistorey Stair

The aim of this exercise is to create a two

storey, four flight staircase
case with all its
landings as one stair element,
element and railings
that vary per storey.. To keep it relatively
simple, the floor to floor heights will be the
same, meaning all riser heights area equal.

Part A Create the Multistorey Stair

Start a new stair, with the base
level at Level 1, Top at Level 3; 40 risers

Set the Location line to left, with Automatic Landings ticked (option toolbar)

Place two runs staggered by one tread at the half landing

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Tim Waldock, RevitCat

Place two more runs, over the top of the first two.
Note that the view scale is set to 1:200 to make the riser numbers large
enough to read

Intermediate landings will be placed, but not the top landing.

Part B Creating the Top Landing

To create the top landing, place another short run above the first (and third)
run, but aligned with top riser. Note the numbers indicate + once you go
over the desired number of risers

Delete the top run, and the top landing will remain, albeit with
wit a warning
from Revit that it is converting the top landing to sketch based

This means the landing will not have any shape handles, so it can only be
modified by editing the sketch, or changing its height
Complete the stair, and youll get more warnings and some railing problems:
instead of two separate railings(inside and outside), Revit creates just one
railing that flips itself outside the stair.

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Tim Waldock, RevitCat

This is not exactly what we
want, as the railing needs to be
broken at the top landing so you
can get offf the stair! There
could be many ways to tackle
this, but the best I have found is
to backtrack a few steps and
modify the railing before
deleting the top run.

Undo two steps, until you

are back in the stair edit mode,
with the short extra top run

If you complete the stair, and you will still get warnings, but at least the
railings will be separated

Part C Modifying the Railing Sketches

The next step would normally be to edit each railing to remove the top
segments then edit the stair to remove
remove the top run. However, if you try to edit
the railings at this stage, you will not succeed because sketch lines are
overlapping. You need to first untangle the overlapping lines, using the Spiral
Method

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Tim Waldock, RevitCat

Go back into stair edit mode Undo, if you did

complete the stair.
Select the two main upper runs (but not the small temporary one)
Change their Location Line to Center
Change the Actual Run Width from 1000 to 998 this should reduce the
width by 1mm on each side

Select the small top temporary

emporary run
Change its Location Line to Center
Change its Actual Run Width from 1000 to 996 this should reduce the width
by 2mm on each side (and make it 1mm less than the upper runs below it)

Select the top landing in a 3D view; in plan, drag the inside stairwell shape
handle a short distance in towards the landing; ignore the landing depth
warning (The landing depth will be corrected later)

Select the upper half-landing

landing in a 3D view (it is hard to pick the correct one
in plan, so better to go to
t 3D to select it);; in plan, drag the inside stairwell
shape handle a short distance in towards the landing; ignore the warning;
warning
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Tim Waldock, RevitCat

drag the outside landing shape handle inwards

Finish the stair this time there should be no warnings because none of the
railing sketch lines should be on top of each other

Now it is time to start tidying up the railing sketches: Edit the inside railing
note that all of the lines are separate (some by only 1mm, and the landing
ones by whatever you dragged the shape handles handles by), in a spiral
arrangement top of railing on the outside, lowest ones on the inside.
Select the two lines that represent the very top railing segments (temporary
run); delete them

Finish the railing sketch

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Tim Waldock, RevitCat

Repeat the exercise for the outer railing

ra but there is
only one sketch line to delete. This time the spiral is reversed, so highest level
is inside

Finish the outer railing sketch

This process has broken the dynamic update link between stairs and railings, so
the stairs can now be editedted without affecting railings.
It is important to make sure that railing sketch lines always remain on the
edge of or within the plan extents of the stair components if they go
outside, they lose their host status and go berserk!

Part D Correcting the Landing Sizes

The first task is to correct the size of the landings.
Edit the stair.
Select the top landing; drag the shape handles back to their original
position (they should snap to align with landings below)

Repeat the process for the upper half-landing

half

In theory you should be able to change the upper run widths

width back to
1000mm,, but it seems temperamental causing strange railing behaviour.
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Tim Waldock, RevitCat

Select the top temporary run and delete it; take note
of the warning the top landing is now sketch-based
sketch (not automatic)

Finish the stair edit

Part E Correcting the Railing Sketches

The railings can now be corrected so their upper segments are 1mm in from
landing edges, carefully maintaining the spiral pattern

Start with the outer railing, which can also be adjusted to suit where the
doorway would be in this case, delete the top two segments

The top of the inner railing can be extended across the top landing,
landing taking
care not to go over the edge of the landing

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Tim Waldock, RevitCat

Part F Mid-landing
landing Break in the Railing
If you want a break on the lower landing for a doorway, you need to copy
the outside railing:: either copy zero distance or copy & paste to same place.
place

Then edit one copy to remove the top half of the railing; edit the original to
remove the bottom half

- -------
After all this you may not exactly be in Stair Heaven, but at least you wont be
suffering the hell of not being able to control Revits stair and railing tools. The
techniques described here could
could be applied to all sorts of different situations.
For more tips and tricks refer to: http://revitcat.blogspot.com
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