The Feminine Podium

The Feminine Podium: A Qualitative Study of the Challenges Faced by Women

Instrumental Conductors at High School and Collegiate Levels

Sarah Bost

University of Washington

MUSED 560

March 14, 2016

The Feminine Podium

ABSTRACT

Women hold less than 10% of instrumental conducting positions at the collegiate level
and are underrepresented at the high school level. Women instrumental conductors have
shared experiences with the challenges they face due to being the minority in their field.
Through four interviews with female instrumental conductors with high school and
college conducting experience, this study seeks to explore those challenges faced by
women instrumental conductors at upper secondary and postsecondary education levels.
Solutions to these challenges are suggested by interview participants.

To be a good conductor, first and foremost, you have to be who you are. In other words, I am

not going to be more effective if I put on a fake accentI am an American. I have to be that,

because that is what I am. I think it is easy to say that a conductor is supposed to be certain

things, when in fact, a conductor could be many, many different things. Many different kinds of

personalities end up being conductorsPerhaps twenty years ago, it may have been true that

symphony boards were looking for a more specific model, but now it is a much different field.

As we get more racial and gender diversity in the field, it is changing (Robert Spano interview,

Wittry 2007).

LITERATURE REVIEW

Notions of Male and Female Leadership

It has long been questioned whether there are innate differences between male and female

leadership. The body of research surrounding this question has mixed resultssome studies

have found significant differences between male and female leaders, others have found none

(Dobbins & Platz, 1986). Often ideas of gendered leadership boil down to perceived traits of

masculinity or femininity, and these qualities tend to be viewed as opposites. Billings and

Alvesson (2000) listed the characteristics attached to female leadership as interdependence,

cooperation, receptivity, merging, acceptance, awareness of patterns, wholes and contexts,

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emotional tone, personalistic perception, being, intuition, and synthesizing, and those of male

leadership consisted of being unemotional, analytical, better problem solvers and result-oriented.

They report that, due to the perception of masculinity as effective leadership, both sexes often

downplay feminine qualities and attempt to accentuate masculine traits. Since men historically

have had a dominant reign over senior positions in business organizations and are also the

majority of mid-level manager job holders, it is understandable that women might feel the need

to adopt the styles typical of male role occupants, a pressure felt when women are placed in the

role of token (Eagly & Johnson, 1990).

Gould (2001) argues that our socialization drives us to believe that women are not

natural-born leaders; Billing and Alvesson (2000) had a similar finding: Most cultures share the

social value, often rooted in religious beliefs, that women should not exercise authority over

men. Social norms have not always allowed for women to be placed in authoritative positions;

Wexley and Hunt (1974) observed an all-male group increase dominant behavior when working

under a female leader.

Though socially we may have yet to arrive at equal acceptance of male and female

leaders, some studies have shown there is no difference in performance skills between men and

women leaders (Wexley & Hunt, 1974) nor in organizational styles (Eagly & Johnson, 1990).

Often there are personality differences noted, such as women leaders prioritizing human

interaction and men prioritizing task completion (Eagly & Johnson, 1990).

Billing and Alvesson (2000) claim that both masculine and feminine traits can be

portrayed and used in leadership by both sexes. They suggest that these traits not be labelled by

gender but simply be called leadership qualities; to attempt to make them exclusive only

contributes to gender stereotyping, division of labor, and women leaders continuing to exist as
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tokens. Dobbins and Platz (1986) call for a moratorium on research comparing male and

female leaders. Instead they propose to focus research on the existing gender bias that impacts

individuals evaluations of leader effectiveness.

Men and Women in Music Education

Men and women both face underrepresentation in the field of music education. Men are

outnumbered by women as elementary music teachers, and women are greatly underrepresented

as high school and college band directors (Gould, 2001; Sheldon & Hartley, 2012). The ratio of

men and women holding high school and college band director positions has hardly changed in

the past few decades. Women hold less than 10% of all college band director positions in the

US, and this is a major upswing from 1972 when women occupied only 5% of both high school

and college band director positions in the country (Gould, 2001). Since successful experience

as a high school band director is often considered to be a necessary qualification for a band

position in postsecondary education, it becomes easier to see the exclusion of women from

higher levels of instrumental conducting in the music education field (Gould, 2003). In Sheldon

and Hartleys study (2012) of Midwest Clinic conductors from 1947 to 2008, women did not

even appear on the podium until 1955, and even over this 61-year period only 7.56% of Midwest

conductors were women.

The history of the wind band contributes to the lack of women in the field. Early in its

existence, the wind band was associated with the military; this meant that bands consisted of all-

male musicians and conductors. By the first half of the twentieth century, female college

students were selectively invited to join their schools marching band, which mostly performed

for male sporting events. World War II created many more opportunities for women to become
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involved in music as musicians and bandleaders (Gould, 2003). Gould called these women

pioneers as they paved the way for women band directors at all levels.

Women Instrumental Conductors

Previous research has documented womens shared experiences as instrumental ensemble

conductors at high school and collegiate levels. Women have commented on what it feels like to

be female in a male-dominated profession; many times their experiences include discrimination,

exclusion, or patronization. A frequent shared experience is that of the boys club or the good

ol boys network of male conductors; women conductors are blindsided by being made the

outsider in their profession (Edwards, 2015). Often women conductors have attempted to appear

more masculine by changing their dress, voice, or mannerisms (Billing & Alvesson, 2000;

Edwards, 2015). Billing and Alvesson (2000) point out that masculine and feminine qualities are

usually used to describe the bodies of men and women; Sheldon and Hartley (2012) claim that

in addition to physical appearance, gesture is a prominent visual aspect of the conductor

[which] induces an almost god-like aura. The female figure tests this conventional masculine

image. Women conductors report feeling like they are sometimes not taken seriously due to

their stature, their conducting gestures, to appearing too nurturing, or to assumptions about them

as compared to male conductors (Edwards, 2015; Sears, 2010; Mullan, 2014). Balancing a

career and family is a challenge that burdens women conductors more than men (Sheldon &

Hartley, 2012). Women conductors also note the lack of female role models in their field (Gould,

2001).

PURPOSE

The purpose of this study is to explore the challenges faced by women conductors of high school

and/or college instrumental ensembles.

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INTERVIEW QUESTIONS

1) Timeline of musical background: What led you to become a conductor? What were your

influences? Who were your role models?

2) What is it like to be a band/orchestra director? What is it like to be a female band/orchestra

director? Do you feel there are any differences between male and female band directors?

3) Have you had any positive or negative experiences because of your gender as a

band/orchestra director? Were there times that you have wondered if you were experiencing

something because of your gender, even if it was not explicit?

4) Do you have any suggestions for dealing with or resolving these issues that women

conductors face?

5) Are there any additional comments or stories you would like to share?

PARTICIPANTS

Fiona is a college professor of music education; she is involved in wind band conducting,

music education research, and has much experience in directing athletic bands. She is a French

horn player with a Bachelor degree in Music Education, a Masters in Wind Conducting, and a

Doctorate in Music Education.

Amelia is a graduate student obtaining a Master in Orchestral Conducting degree; her

primary instrument is cello. Her conducting experience is entirely at the collegiate levelshe is

new to the field of conducting and has conducted her peers during her undergraduate and

graduate degrees, while also participating in conducting conferences.

Annie is currently getting her PhD in Music Education. She is a flutist with a Bachelors

and Masters degree in Music Education. She is heavily involved in music education research.
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Eva has a Bachelors degree in Music Education and is currently obtaining her Masters

in Music Education; she plays trumpet as her primary instrument in classical and improvised

music ensembles.

FINDINGS

Influences and Role Models

Family influence on becoming and continuing as a musician was a similarity between all

conductors interviewed. Three out of four conductors mentioned female band directors and

female instrumental teachers as role models. These same three conductors mentioned one

particular female band director of a well-known American college wind ensemble as a role

model, although she was mentioned with both positive and negative commentary; this was

consistent with Mullans interviews in 2014.

Each of these women received varying opportunities to explore conducting before

making it their profession. Annie became the student conductor of her high school band

program, which included being drum major of her pep band. She took conducting lessons from

her band director in the morning before school and actually subbed for him in performance when

he had major medical issues. She continued with her conducting studies throughout her college

degree programs. Fiona and Eva did not participate in conducting activities until their

undergraduate programs; Fiona was a college drum major and took conducting classes; Eva took

conducting classes and private lessons. Amelia has only just begun her conducting activities in

the last two years as a part of her undergraduate work; she has participated in national and

international conducting conferences and just recently conducted her first full symphony

performance as principal conductor.

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Band/Orchestra director identity and gender

When asked to tell about her experience as a conductor, each interviewee had a different

expression of this identity. Fiona described a separation between being a conductor and being a

band director; she felt that she was a conductor during the time spent on the podium and a band

director when she was managing all other aspects of her band program. When asked what would

be on her band director business card, she replied:

It would say Student focused firstand then Educator, Conductor, Researcher, and
Musician.

She also loves athletic bands, so that is a large part of her identity as a band director.

Amelia described her attraction to learning all of the orchestras parts, aside from just

learning her own part (cello). She loves getting to collaborate with all the instrument families

(strings, woodwinds, brass, and percussion) and even sometimes with choruses and vocal

soloists. She said there is an innate vulnerability about being a conductor which she loves:

Musicians are all looking to you for the answersyou have to balance being their leader
with being their equal. You have to tear down your emotional walls so you can
effectively communicate with players about the music.

Annie described her personality fit to the profession:

Im a control freak! Some students jokingly call me PresidentIm a Type A person,

Im organized, Im on top of things.

Eva described band directing as the most certain part of her identity. She calls her band

directing experience incredible and says her views about it have changed with experience:

In college, I thought it meant direct the bandperform musicnow I believe it is

about teaching kids to create art, teaching kids about life, humanity, citizenship. It is
about helping kids to figure out their identities. Its about building relationships and
making a safe space for kids to exist with all their feelings and articulate them and utilize
them.
The Feminine Podium

My next sub-question narrowed the identity question to that of being a female

band/orchestra director. I decidedly asked the question point blank; I did not want to lead my

interviewees toward an expected answer. I truly did not know what replies I would hear. These

particular people do not seem to think of themselves as female conductors, but just

conductors, which echoed interviewees from Sheldon and Hartleys 2012 study. They

mentioned that they only think of their gender when it is pointed out by other people. Eva stated:

When people notice Im female, it doesnt affect how much I love it [the conducting
profession]and the kids dont notice it.

Fionas business card description of herself did not include a gender reference; Annie

reported that she only recalls her gender as a conductor when other female colleagues say

something like, We gals have to stick together! Amelia stated:

The orchestra doesnt think one way or anothermaybe a subconscious thought, but
thats not their fault.
Next came the broad sub-question of differences between male and female conductors.

All of the interviewees agreed that there were differences between the genders when it came to

conducting; most of these differences had to do with stature and aggression. Each woman felt

from time to time like she needed to modify her conducting gestures (to fit her feminine stature)

in order to communicate the same musical goal as a male conductor. Annie, about 53, said she

has been instructed to be bigger, stronger! Amelia spoke of the differences in cuing between

the sexesthat intense, aggressive cues can be interpreted differently from a female conductor

than a male. She stated that womens bodies and faces are naturally different than mens.

Both Fiona and Eva mentioned the aggressive gestures that seem to come more naturally to most

male conductors; both questioned whether that aggression is existent in their personality. Eva

continued her response by addressing the issues of voice timbre and dress (Greaves-Spurgeon,
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1998); she felt that female band directors have to work harder to maintain that [band director]

image that comes naturally to males.

Challenges faced by women conductors

Each woman expressed at least one negative memory that she felt was based upon being

a female conductor. Eva recounted a male colleagues unsolicited advice before an upcoming

concert about professional dress for a female conductor.

He said, Your jacket needs to be long enough to cover your butt; if you wear a dress, it
needs to be floor-length, and are you going to wear heels? I felt insulted, like, Dont you
think Id know how to dress professionally? It felt like he said this to me because I am
female, because male concert dress is implied.

SB [smiling]: Sowhat did you wear?

Eva: I wore black dress pants, a black suit jacket, and a black-and-white top that had a
high neck.

SB: And did your jacket cover your butt?

Eva: Yes, mostly.

Eva confessed that he was a difficult colleague with which to work; I inferred that she was

sometimes made to feel less confident when working with him due to his comments.

Amelia had a similar experience with an older male clinician at a conducting symposium.

It was her first time participating at a conducting symposium; she was on the podium getting

feedback from the clinician, whom she described as having an old school [conducting]

mindset. He asked her to try a more aggressive gesture that did not come naturally to her; she

attempted it but knew that she would need to practice it over time. She remembers him asking

her, Are you sure you are capable of doing this? She conveyed to me the image of her frozen

on the podium, thinking, trying not to cry in front of the group. She responded, Yes. I am

capable of doing this. He replied, OK, and walked away from her. She then recounted
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retreating to the bathroom afterwards for thirty minutes, intensively evaluating whether she

should continue pursuing a career in conducting.

Fiona had a unique experience associated with her gender as a director. Her love of

directing athletic bands led her to attend a CBDNA Athletic Bands Symposium. She noted the

lack of women at this conference, which she attributed to athletic band directing being a male-

dominated niche (she mentioned that she was only the second female ever appointed as Graduate

Assistant to the college athletic band program where she obtained one of her degrees). This did

not daunt her; however, she realized her gender was noticeable to others at that symposium when

a man asked her, Are you the girlfriend of one of the symposium attendees? After other

experiences like this one at that same conference, she decided not to attend it again.

When asked about her experiences, Annie briefly spoke of emailed complaints from

community band members about her demeanor on the podium, especially in comparison with her

male counterpart.

Sometimes women conductors experience situations that are less explicitly linked to their

gender; I asked these women if they had ever wondered if the treatment they experienced was

due to their gender as a conductor. Fiona felt shut out of conversations at the afore-mentioned

symposium; Eva wondered why band program responsibilities seemed to be delegated to men

first over women; Annie thought about a repetitive comment made by a male mentor about her

smaller stature working against her ability to take charge of an ensemble. Each of these women

used the term boys club or good ol boys when describing their experience working in a

male-dominated profession.
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Suggested solutions to challenges

I asked these women if they had recommendations for how to handle these challenges, or

if they could suggest a bigger picture of how our society should view women as conductors.

Fiona indicated that she simply chooses to not take part in that [gender-based] mindset.

Amelia stated:

I have a hard time separating male and female conductorswe [both] have to do the
same things: we all have to learn how to communicate, how to break down the heart
barrier, how to score study aloneI dont like the idea that females are competing with
male conductorsCommunities and orchestras should recognize thisI will encourage
females to join this career and lifestyle, but not keep them separated.

Annie commented:

I strive to interact with players as a human being, and a leader. I try to be a person off
the podium, too. Im genuinely nice to themI win them over and they forget about the
other stuff. I took charge and earned their respect.

Eva suggested:

Be really direct and open about issues when they happenIm not sure who said this
first but, Be so good that they cant not notice you. Im also a female trumpet player, so
Ive experienced all this since age 10. I had a female trumpet teacher who said its okay
to feel like a girl, just be yourself, you dont have to try to be a manWe have to stop
looking at being a girl as a bad thing!

Eva also felt passionately about a summer conducting program for women only, run by a

prominent female orchestra conductor; she indicated that it would allow women to address their

issues honestly. She felt that women experience inequity everywhereI take a global outlook

to find perspective. Each conductor felt that her current mentors were overall very mindful of

the issues women conductors face, and that the continuation of this behavior is beneficial.

CONCLUSION

Through this study I aimed to record women instrumental conductors experiences as a

part of a male-dominated field. My highest aim was to ask questions that allowed for honest
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expression and storytelling, without leading interviewees to the experiences previously

mentioned in the literature review. I was pleased to hear that my chosen interviewees had not

encountered blatant sexism in their profession. Since my initial venture into this research topic, I

worried that I might be perpetuating notions of gender inequality by planting the idea of a

feminine conductor into the minds of my interviewees. It is hoped that the information

recorded from these interviews is enlightening and representative of a changing field of

instrumental conducting.

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