8.

Documentation for James Grant Older

(14 March 1864 to 31 March 1946)
father of Roy Burton Older
(10 February 1886 to 13 April 1964)
James Grant Older was born March 14, 1864, in Mechanicsburg, Illinois, the son
of Samuel Clarence Older and Jane Eliza Baird.(1) James apparently was given his
middle name after Union General Ulysses S. Grant. Mechanicsburg is only a few miles
east of Springfield, Illinois.
Anna Rosebelle Older was the only sister of James Grant Older. She was born
July 26, 1862, and died February 28, 1942. She married John H. Butner on February 27,
1883.(2) His father was A. F. Butner and his mother was A. Haley.
James Grant Older married Wilhelmina Fredericka Lorenz on May 21, 1885, in
Danville, Vermilion County, Illinois.(3) James gave his age as 21 and his occupation as
that of painter. He gives his place of birth as Mechanicsburg, Illinois, and his parent's
names as S. C. Older and Elisa Baird. The wedding is shown to be the first for both
James and Wilhelmina. Wilhelmina Fredericka Lorenz was born March 28, 1866, in
Danville, Illinois. She apparently went by the name Minnie. She was the daughter of
Gottfried Lorenz (Lorens) and Hannah Stuebe.(4)
James Older is listed in the 1889 Danville, Illinois Directory as living in
Germantown (Danville Post Office), Illinois. His occupation was that of a painter and he
worked at the Chicago & Eastern Illinois (C&EI) railroad shops.(5) James Grant and
Wilhelmina Fredericka (Lorenz) Older were the parents of three children, Roy Burton
Older, Nellie Pearl Older, and Maybelle Older.
Nellie Pearl married Frank W. O'Rourke on August 23, 1919. He was born
December 23, 1890, and died April 3, 1963, in Dearborn, Michigan. Frank at one time
was a Vice-President of Auditing for the Wabash Railroad Company in Detroit,
Michigan. Nellie Pearl (Older) O'Rourke died October 9, 1885, in Danville, Illinois.
Frank and Nelle O'Rourke did not have any children. They are buried in Springhill
Cemetery in Danville, Illinois. Truxton James Older, a grandson of James and Minnie
Older, lived with Frank and Nelle O'Rourke in Detroit for a few years, probably
beginning about 1929.
Maybelle Older married Cody Holmes on October 28, 1919, in Springfield,
Illinois. Cody was born August 18, 1892, in Decatur, Illinois, and died April 24, 1988, in
Decatur, Illinois. He was buried in Monticello, Illinois. Maybelle died May 20, 1959.
Cody and Maybelle (Older) Holmes had two daughters, Lorraine Holmes who was
born March 20, 1921, in Decatur, Illinois, and Jeanette Holmes, who was born January
16, 1929. Lorraine married William H. Dalton on April 20, 1947. A son of William and
Lorraine Dalton, Phillip, died in the 1950s at about age 10. Jeanette married Robert
Findley on June 1, 1952. They had no children. The father of Cody Holmes was said to
have been a close friend of Buffalo Bill Cody.
James was a supervisor of the painting of electric rail cars in Detroit, Michigan, at
one time according to Truxton James Older, a grandson. James Grant Older died March
31, 1946, in Dearborn, Michigan. He was buried at Springhill Cemetery on Voorhees
Street in Danville, Illinois.(6) Wilhelmina Fredericka (Lorenz) Older, James's wife, died
on April 27, 1965, in Dearborn, Michigan at age 99. She was buried next to James in
Springhill Cemetery in Danville, Illinois.(7)
 James Grant Older is listed as age 6 in the 1870 Illinois Federal Census, Danville
Township, Vermilion County, enumerated July 4, 1870, in the Samuel Older household
along with his mother Eliza and sister Rose Older. James and his sister are listed as
having been born in Illinois. His father is listed as having been born in Canada and his
mother is listed as having been born in Ohio.(8) James is listed with his parents and
sister in the 1880 Illinois Federal Census under the Village of Germantown, Vermilion
County.(9)
James G. Older, Minnie, Roy, Nellie, Maybelle, and James' mother Eliza Wire are
listed in the 1900 U. S. Census for Indiana, Vigo County, city of Terre Haute.(10) James
G. Older, Minnie, Nellie, and Mable are listed in the 1910 U. S. Census for Illinois,
Macon County, city of Decatur.(11)
James appears in the 1920 Federal Census for Wayne County, Michigan. His age
is given as 55, he was born in Illinois, his father was born in Canada and of English
origin, and his mother was born in Ohio.(12) James is listed in the 1930 Michigan
Federal Census under Wayne County, Detroit City, Ward 14, Block 145. He lives with
his wife and they live next door to their daughter and son-in-law, Frank and Nellie
O'Rourke.(13)

Children (Older), born:

i. Roy Burton, born February 10, 1886
ii. Nellie Pearl, born March 13, 1889
iii. Maybelle, born November 10, 1892, in Danville, Illinois

ORIGINAL SOURCE MATERIAL to support the RELATIONSHIP between

JAMES GRANT OLDER and his son ROY BURTON OLDER
1) State of Illinois Medical Certificate of Death for Roy Burton Older, registration
district #92.0, registered number 347, date of birth February 10, 1886, date of death
April 13, 1964, Danville, Illinois, father's full name James Grant Older, mother's full
maiden name Minnie Lorenz, signed by Truxton J. Older, son, informant.
2) Illinois Marriage Records, James Grant Older and Minnie F. Lorenz, married
May 21, 1885, in Danville, Vermilion County, Illinois. Volume V, Vermilion County, IL,
Marriages, Vermilion County Court Records, Film #1298746:1298749.
3) Original data: Danville, IL, 1890. Danville, IL, USA: Norvell & Graham, 1890;
Danville, Illinois Directory, 1889 [database on-line]. Provo, UT, USA: The Generations
Network, Inc., 2000. James Older is listed in the 1889 Danville, Illinois Directory as
living in Germantown (Danville Post Office), Illinois. His occupation was that of a
painter and he worked at the Chicago & Eastern Illinois (C&EI) railroad shops.
4) James Grant Older and his wife Wilhelmina Frederika Lorenz are buried
together at Springhill Cemetery in Danville, Illinois, next to Roy Burton Older and his
wife Ethel Leona Worth. Also buried nearby are Nelle (Older) ORourke and Frank
ORourke. Springhill Cemetery records, Danville, Vermilion County, Illinois, Lot 362,
Block 21.
5) Obituary for Wilhelmina Lorenz Older, Danville Commercial News newspaper
obituaries, April 28, 1965. Lists her husband as James G. Older, a son Roy, and a
daughter, Mrs. Mabel Holmes.
6) James G. Older, Minnie, Roy, Nellie, Maybelle, and James' mother Eliza (Baird)
(Older) Wire are listed in the 1900 U. S. Census for Indiana, Vigo County, Terre Haute,
Harrison Township, Ward #8, enumerated June 2, 1900, house number 1658, dwelling
number 51, and family number 52.
7) 1910 U. S. Census for Illinois, Macon County, city of Decatur, Decatur
Township, Ward #6, enumerated April 21, 1910, enumeration district #117, Sheet 10 A,
house number 1657, dwelling number 226, and family number 271. States that three
children are all living. Nellie age 21 and Mabel age 17 are still in the household.
8) 1930 U. S. Census for Michigan, Wayne County, Part of Precinct 32, Township
- Detroit, enumerated April 11, 1930, Roll T626_1049, Page 17A, Image 0824, Baxter
Blvd., House 9125, Dwelling Number 2, Family Number 3. Lists James G. Older, Minnie
Older, Frank ORourke, Nell ORourke, and Truxton J. Older living in the household.
Truxton J. Older was a son of Roy Burton Older and James Grant Older and Wilhelmina
Frederika Lorenz were his grandparents.
9) There probably is an obituary for James Grant Older in the Danville Commercial
News shortly after March 31, 1946, his date of death.
10) There should be a Death Certificate for James Grant Older, either in Detroit or
Dearborn, Michigan, or possibly in Danville, Illinois.

REFERENCES
1. State of Illinois Medical Certificate of Death for Roy Burton Older, registration district
#92.0, registered number 347, date of birth February 10, 1886, date of death April 13,
1964, Danville, Illinois, father's full name James Grant Older, mother's full maiden name
Minnie Lorenz, signed by Truxton J. Older, son, informant.

2. Illinois Marriage Records, John N. Butner and Rosabelle Older, married February 27,
1883, in Vermilion County, Illinois.

3. Illinois Marriage Records, James Grant Older and Minnie F. Lorenz, married May 21,
1885, in Danville, Vermilion County, Illinois. Volume V, Vermilion County, IL,
Marriages, Vermilion County Court Records, Film #1298746:1298749.

4. Illinois Marriage Records, James Grant Older and Minnie F. Lorenz, married May 21,
1885, in Danville, Vermilion County, Illinois. Volume V, Vermilion County, IL,
Marriages, Vermilion County Court Records, Film #1298746:1298749.

5. Original data: Danville, IL, 1890. Danville, IL, USA: Norvell & Graham, 1890; Danville,
Illinois Directory, 1889 [database on-line]. Provo, UT, USA: The Generations Network,
Inc., 2000.

6. Springhill Cemetery records, Danville, Vermilion County, Illinois, Lot 362, Block 21.

7. Springhill Cemetery records, Danville, Vermilion County, Illinois, Lot 362, Block 21;
obituary for Minnie Lorenz Older, Danville Commercial News newspaper obituaries,
probably April 28, 1965, or within a week after that date.

8. 1870 Illinois Federal Census, Danville Township, Vermilion County, enumerated July
4, 1870.

9. 1880 Illinois Federal Census, Village of Germantown, Vermilion County.

10. 1900 U. S. Census for Indiana, Vigo County, Terre Haute, Harrison Township, Ward
#8, enumerated June 2, 1900, house number 1658, dwelling number 51, and family
number 52.

11. 1910 U. S. Census for Illinois, Macon County, city of Decatur, Decatur Township,
Ward #6, enumerated April 21, 1910, enumeration district #117, Sheet 10 A, house
number 1657, dwelling number 226, and family number 271.

12. 1920 Michigan Federal Census, Wayne County, Detroit, enumerated the 14th and
15th of January 1920, enumeration district #72, family #343.

13. 1930 Michigan Federal Census, Wayne County, Detroit City, Ward 14, Block 145.
 Anna osabelle Older Butner
Mcdonald Roby wbo was t e mother of
Gertrude 8 toer Culbreath a d Goldie
B tner Pace Martin Monroe. I r
grandch dre were elen Culbreath
a er, Nellie Culbreath Wood Stro pe
an oyd Edward Culbreat . P oto
taken in Coving o , TN - robably after
her divorce from Dr. oby 916.
1870 U. S. Census for Illinois, Vermilion County, Danville Township, enumerated July 4, 1870,
by James A. Davis, Post Office - Danville, page 15

Dwelling #124, Family #123

Older, Samuel, age 34, male, white, broom maker, born in Canada, male citizen of U. S. age 21 or older
Older, Eliza, age 36, female, white, keeping house, born in Ohio
Older, Rose, age 8, female, white, born in Illinois, father of foreign birth
Older, James, age 6, male, white, born in Illinois, father of foreign birth
1880 U. S. Census for Illinois, Vermilion County, Germantown, Roll T9_255, Family History Film 1254255,
Page 290D, Enumeration District 208, Image 0069, Enumerated June 10, 1880
Dwelling #284, Family #305
Older, Samuel, white, male, age 43, married, painter, born in Canada, parents born in England
Older, Eliza, white, female, age 46, wife, married, at home, born in Ohio, father born in Ohio, mother born in Virginia
Older, Rose, white, female, age 17, daughter, single, at home, born in Illinois, father born in Canada, mother born in Ohio
Older, James, white, male, age 16, son, apprentice to painter, born in Illinois, father born in Canada, mother born in Ohio
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 VERMILION COUNTY, ILLINOIS

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1900 United States Census, Indiana, Terre Haute, Harrison Township, Ward #8, enumerated June 2, 1900, by William L. Canary,
enumeration district 119, page 3B
house number 1658, dwelling number 51, family number 52,

Older, James G., head, white, male, March 1864, age 36, born in Ohio, father born in England, mother born in Ohio, painter, can
read, can write, can speak English, rent, house
Older, Minnie, wife, white, female, born March 1867, age 33, born in Illinois, father born in Germany, mother born in Germany, can
read, can write, can speak English
Older, Roy, son, white, male, born February 1886, age 14, born in Illinois, father born in Ohio, mother born in Illinois, attended
school 9 months, can read, can write, can speak English
Older, Nella, daughter, white, female, born March 1889, born in Illinois, father born in Ohio, mother born in Illinois, attended
school 9 months, can read, can write, can speak English
Older, Mable, daughter, white, female, born November 1892, born in Illinois, father born in Ohio, mother born in Illinois,
attended school, 9 months
Weir (Wire), Eliza, mother, white, female, born August 1834, age 63, married, mother of three children, two of these children now
living, born in Ohio, father born in Ohio, mother born in Ohio, can read, can write, can speak English
1910 United States Census, Illinois, Macon County, Decatur city, Decatur township, part of Ward 6,
enumerated April 21, 1910, by Robbie G Williams, enumeration district #117, Sheet 10 A
address number 1657, dwelling number 226, family number 271

Older, James J., head, male, white, age 46, born in Illinois, father born in Canada (English), mother born in United States,
language - English, occupation - painter, car shop

Older, Minnie, wife, female, white, age 43, born in Illinois, father born in Germany (German), mother born in Germany
(German), language - English, occupation - none

Older, Nellie, daughter, female, white, age 21, born in Illinois, father born in Illinois, mother born in Illinois, language - English,
occupation - saleslady, department store

Older, Mabel, daughter, female, white, age 17, born in Illinois, father born in Illinois, mother born in Illinois, language -
English, occupation - none
1920 U. S. Census for Michigan, Wayne County, Detroit, 2nd Ward, Roll T625_802, Page 10A,
ED 72, Image 413, enumerated January 14 and 15, 1920

Family #343

continued on next page -

1920 U. S. Census for Michigan, Wayne County, Detroit, 2nd Ward, Roll T625_802, Page 10A,
ED 72, Image 413, enumerated January 14 and 15, 1920

Family #343

Older, James G., head, rent, male, white, age 55, married, able to read and write, born in Illinois,
father born in Canada, father spoke English, mother born in Ohio, can speak English, ??,
chemical?, wages
Older, Minnie, G., wife, female, white, age 52, married, able to read and write, born in Illinois,
father born in Germany, spoke German, mother born in Germany, spoke German, able to
speak English, no occupation
1930 U. S. Census for Michigan, Wayne County, Part of Precinct 32, Township - Detroit,
enumerated April 11, 1930, Roll T626_1049, Page 17A, Image 0824
Baxter Blvd., House 9125, Dwelling Number 2, Family Number 3
1930 U. S. Census for Michigan, Wayne County, Part of Precinct 32, Township - Detroit,
enumerated April 11, 1930, Roll T626_1049, Page 17A, Image 0824
Baxter Blvd., House 9125, Dwelling Number 2, Family Number 3
Older, James G., head, rented, $110 per month, radio set, do not live on farm, male, white, age 65 at last birthday, married, 22 at first
marriage, did not attend school, can read and write, born in Illinois, father born in England, mother born in US, able to speak English,
superintendent, street rail road paint ??, employed, not a veteran
Older, Minnie A., wife, female, white, age 62 at last birthday, married, 19 at first marriage, did not attend school, can read and write,
born in Illinois, father born in Germany, mother born in Germany, can speak English

Family Number 4
O'Rourke, Frank W., head, do not live on farm, male, white, age 38 at last birthday, married, 28 at first marriage, did not attend school,
can read and write, born in Illinois, father born in Illinois, mother born in Illinois, employed, accountant, railroad, can speak English,
veteran - yes, World War
O'Rourke, Nell, wife, do not live on farm, female, white, age 38 at last birthday, married, 28 at first marriage, did not attend school, can
read and write, born in Illinois, father born in Illinois, mother born in Illinois, can speak English

Older, Truxton J., nephew, do not live on farm, male, white, age 18 at last birthday, single, did not attend school, can
speak English, born in Illinois, father born in Illinois, mother born in Illinois, employed, office boy, railroad, can
speak English
9/5/2004- Files Analysis for Curtis Older - hy Sandrt1 Lake Lassen

Reference #10: Be sure to include book and page number for all deeds cited.

Reference #14: See comments on prior page regarding the censuses after 1930.

Good proofs!

#8: ,JAMES GRANT OLDER

1st paragraph: The death certificate is nice proof of James' parentage, as is the
1870 census. (Just an observation, but you just never find little Southern boys
named "Grant" or "Sherman!")

4th paragraph: The last sentence reads "James ...and Wilhelmina ... were the
parents of three children.... but citation #6 is for Roy's death certificate. Wrong
place for this citation? It does not prove the three children.

Paragraphs 5 and 6 refer to the other children of James and Anna, but there are
no citations for the information given.

There should be more citation numbers in the last paragraph. Number ninewould
be for the 1870 census; then succeeding numbers for the next censuses. Again,
the 1940 census has not been released an.d should not be cited.

I did not see the 1910 census cited for ,James and Wilhelmina Older. In case you
don't have it, here it is: 1910 I L, Macon Co., Decatur, 6th ward, Sheet lOA, ED117,
p. 35, 226/271: James J. (note initial) Older, 46, born IL; Minnie, 43,3 children,
all living; Nellie, 21; Mabel, 17; Mayme Findlay, 20, roomer.

NOTE: NUMBERS 9 AND 10, WILHELMENA FREDERICKA LORENZ AND

CHESTERFIELD WORTH, WERE SENT ON 7/22/04.

#11: LUCY JANE HARMISON

We have, of course, discussed Lucy ,Jane lbefore, with the "Doctor Dillon"
controversy. What a mystery in 1870: Where was Lucy .Jane? Boarding school?
Perhaps working in another household? I couldn't locate her in any indices.
Your proofs for this file are very good. No problems.

#12: .JOSEPH P. GOUTY

1st paragraph: Don't forget your period after the "P" in .Joseph's middle name;
also in the first citation! (I'm subbing in English this week, can't you tell?) Good
citations for his birth and proof of parentage: Bible records, tombstone and
childhood listings in censuses.