Professional Documents
Culture Documents
Kuang Ping Style and Kung Fu Details
Kuang Ping Style and Kung Fu Details
Kuang Ping Style and Kung Fu Details
by Dr. G. S. Torres
Peng
(Péng)
They say in Tai Ji Quan that 4 ounces deflects 10,000 pounds. How can this be so
? First, you must have "Peng." Peng is why the Xing Yi Quan practitioners do the
standing meditations of I Chuan (Yi Quan). The great Grand Master Guo Lien Ying
would often be seen "standing" in the "Universal Post" position. Below are the
nine points that Grand Master Kwok taught to do while doing I Chuan, Universal P
ost or Ta Ji Quan forms.
Ba Mén/Ba Jìn
Eight Gates or Eight Energys(Strengths)
The chief energies/strengths are the 4 primary hands or primary directions and t
he four corner hands or four diagonal directions are for assistance. The four pr
imary hands are the basic rule and the four corner hands are the alternatives.
The four primary hands (four cardinal directions)
1. 1. Peng Jin (outward) - Ward off, Tai Chi's essential energy, power of fle
xibility and resilience (born in the thighs), energy of defensive attack, under
opponents hand. Attack. Evading is to attack. Yang or hard.
2. Lu Jin (inward) - Pull or Roll-back, Péng in reverse energy - energy of fr
iction and rubbing, evade and adhere. Over opponents hand. Defense. Evading is t
o attack. Yin or soft. (Peng changes to Lu is the inward drawing of silk, and Lu
changes to Peng is the outward drawing of silk. These are the two basic energie
s/strengths of Tai Chi.)
3. Ji Jin (outward) - Press, two hands when they are joined. Energy of two fo
rces combined, when there’s not enough peng jin. Two energies combined as one, e
nergy of dexterity. Adhering is to attack.
4. An Jin (inward) - Push, Listening energy, single and double finger / palm.
Lower peng jin, used in sinking, creating pull force. The posture of an looks a
s if one is preparing to push one or both hands. An from the front = peng jìn, A
n from the left or right = lu jìn, An combined = ji jin.
5. The four corner hands (four diagonal directions) Cai Jin - Roll-pull, reve
rse of ji jìn, incline downward towards the rear. Energy of two forces divided.
Here use fingers for Tai Chi Chin Na techniques. Like picking fruit, one hand gr
abs branch down and other grabs fruit. Outside hand is peng and below hand/grabb
ing is cai. Don’t use cai horizontally toward the back, it must incline downward
toward the back. Use cai on only one of the opponents arms, not both.
6. Lie Jin - Split, Tai Chi s small strike energy. Begins quickly a few inche
s from opponent. Energy of striking (first line of defense). When lie is used by
one hand the other hand must have inside drawing of silk energy to keep the bod
y in balance. The hands can mutually interchange their use. Lie is used to draw
silk outward toward the opponent when you are very close. This strike can t stop
half way you re committed, so strike quickly and very close the body.
7. Zhou Jin - Elbow strike by moving the arms up & down (Lie s second line of
defense). After you over extend yourself and cai and lie won t work, now use zh
ou, elbow strike after wrist or from wrist.
8. Kao Jìn - Shoulder strike. Used in a slanting direction, a strike by the w
hole body, body strike (Lie s third line of defense). Again used after over exte
nding yourself. Shoulder strike kao, knee strike kao, stomach strike kào, back s
trike kào. Kào is used when the hands and feet are tied up.
* Peng drawn inside = Lu, Peng combined = Ji, Peng drawn down = An, Peng div
ided = Cai, Peng followed by a strike = Lie, Peng turning and elbow striking = Z
hou, and Peng turning and body striking = Kao.
The twelve rules for developing Peng From Guo
1. Keep the body centered
2. Sink the shoulders
3. Sink the elbows
4. Keep the wrists straight
5. Keep the butt tucked in
6. Keep the knees bent
7. Step light (empty step)
8. Feet must be empty and solid
9. Top of the head turns
10. The back rotates
11. Waist (tight) connected not slanted
12. Lower belly rises
* First point: 2 arms connect above elbow and below shoulder
* Second point: 2 thighs follow each other
* Third point: Back bow collects energy at the chest (chest is neither conca
ve nor convex).
The Nine rules for developing Péng From Kwok
1. Crown as if suspended from a thread
2. Eyes looking into the distance (eye level)
3. Ears listening inward
4. Tongue to the roof of the mouth
5. Head as if balanced on a pin
6. Neck and back straight (up and down)
7. Sink the chest, raise the back
8. Abdominal breathing
9. Drop the pelvis
Wu Fang
Five Directions
1. Forward (metal)
2. Backward (wood)
3. Step Left (water)
4. Step Right (fire)
5. Center (earth)
14 Examples of Bu (stances or steps)
1. Breaking Step - like Tai Chi stance, used to half step and twist so ½ step
and you can sink then twist (toes come up) then make contact and toes go down,
then strike. Frontal attack.
2. Backward Step - step back with toes then rest of foot (step back repulse m
onkey).
3. Rolling Step - when the foot turns as a result of following the body. The
sole of the foot creates friction. Foundation of Neutralizing energy.
4. Rising Step - going to a rooster stance, knee kick.
5. Sinking Step - stepping down with foot from a rooster stance.
6. Withdrawal Step - stepping to the side, from inside to outside.
7. Collecting Step - stepping from the outside to the inside.
8. Curved Step - outside step forward for attack or defense.
9. Slanting Step - stepping diagonal to left or right.
10. Horse Step - horse stance, L stance, has double sinking step.
11. Fishing Step - horse step to the side where the hand and thigh help each o
ther, cloud hands.
12. Empty Step - Empty stance while top of body rises and inside receives (lif
t the plams).
13. Turn the Body Over Step - putting spine in position to twist for a strike.
14. Pushing Step - front foot advances and the rear foot follows (forward step
ping and leaping forward).
* Note Step 1 & 3 (Breaking and Rolling) are the Foundation of Tai Chi Foot
Work.© 2000
Xiao Jiu Tian or Little Universe Cycle
Another postural point is to touch the tip of the tongue to the roof of the mout
h. This is called closing the gap in the Xiao Jiu Tian or Little Universe Cycle.
This cycle is the conception vessel in the front of the body and the Governing
Vessel in the back of the body which connect at GV1 (Long Strength) and CV1 (Mee
ting of Yin). Both end up at the mouth where they don t touch, hence the tongue
touching the roof of the mouth closes the loop at GV27 (Correct Exchange) and CV
24 (Receiving Fluid).
Tai Ji Quan Hand Positions
Mainly speaking, there are only four hand positions widely used in Tai Ji Quan,
three are depicted below, the hook, fist and tai ji palm. The fourth would only
be used while wielding a jien or double edge sword often called a tai ji sword.
Parts of the Fist: 1. Back, 2. Face, 3. Heart, 4. Eye, 5. Heel.
Parts of the Tai Chi Palm: 1. Back, 2. Heart, 3. Tip, 4. Edge.
Parts of the Hook: 1. Back, 2. Face, 3. Heart, 4. Tip.
Tai Ji Quan Eight Basic Stances Positions
* Tai Chi Quan Bow and Arrow
* Tai Chi Quan Horse Stance
* Tai Chi Quan L or Half Horse
* Tai Chi Quan High Lotus
* Tai Chi Quan Empty
* Tai Chi Quan Tiger
* Tai Chi Quan Rooster
* Tai Chi Quan Tai Chi Stance
Tai Ji Jian
(Tai Chi Double Edge Sword Form)
The following are pages were taken from the booklet on Tai Ji Jian (Tai Chi Doub
le Edge Sword Form) written by Master Torres. The first page is part of the pref
ace and is the names of the moves writen in Grandmaster Peter Kwok s own hand. T
his is followed by material also found in the preface. The last page is page one
of the list of the names of the first 25 moves.
Tai Chi Quan
This set of sword is the original Tai Ji Sword Form. The movement is concise and
easy to practice. There are a total of 54 postures, including the opening and c
losing positions. It can be practiced to an eight count cadence and is suitable
for both individual and group practice.
The entire set can be divided into six sections each containing 8 major postures
. The entire set includes a variety of foot methods and sword methods, such as w
ithdraw, carry, swing. thrust, strike, hang, poke (tap), cut )split), intercept,
hold up, sweep, block, and wipe. Continuously practicing these postures may imp
rove your health and lay foundation for practicing other types of swordplay.
Basic Movements
1. Left Hand Sword Holding Method The left hand tightly holds the hand guard
with the thumb pointing downward, while the little finger, middle finger and the
third finger point upward. The index finger is straight and leans against the s
word handle. The sword leans against the back of the left forearm. Essentials: T
he sword must be held tight and the sword edge should not touch the body. Tai Ch
i Quan
2. Right Hand Sword Holding Method
1. Use the thumb and index finger to hold the handly tightly. The other
three fingers loosely hold the handle. Use the bottom joint of the thumb and ou
ter fringe of the palm to control the sword’s movements.
2. Hold the handle tightly with the middle finger, the third finger and
the thumb. The index finger and the little finger hold it loosely. Sometimes it
is necessary to increase the elasticity and flexibility of the sword s edge, th
e index finger needs to lean against the hand guard to control the precision of
the sword movement. This method is also called "holding the sword alive."
Essentials: How tight one should hold the handle is determined by one bein
g able to thrust the sword horizontally and split with the sword horizontally. T
ai Chi Quan
3. Sword Finger / Sword Hand Stretch the index and middle fingers, the third
and little fingers bend toward the center of the palm. The thumb then presses on
the nails of the third and little fingers. Tai Chi Quan
Qiang Shu
(Spear Play Skill Form)
The following are pages taken from the booklet on Shao Lin Chuan Group A Spear S
kills Picture Illustration Spear Form (Jia Zu Qiang Shù Tú Jie). The first page
is from the forward, the second page is page one of the list of move names, and
the last page is page one of the illusstrated form, the preparatory moves and mo
ves 1, 2 and 3 of Secton One.
Jia Zu Qiang Shù Tu Jie
Group A Spear Skills Picture Illustration Spear Form
The traditional Chinese Martial Arts (Wu Shu), after going through continuous de
velopment, has become a sport that is liked by the public. At present, the numbe
r of people who participate in the Wu Shu sport is increasing nationwide everyda
y. Their technical skills have also been rapidly developed and improved. In orde
r to meet the demand of readers who study Wu Shu, we have transcribed this set o
r form "Spear Form Basic Training Study Book," for general learners to use as a
reference.
While compiling this set or form, the authors of the set have adopted traditiona
l techniques of a variety of Wh Shu styles, as well as innovative techniques. Al
though all Wu Shu routines are based on jumps, balance, foot position, leg movem
ent, rolling, turns, hand position, eye position, body movement, footwork, and s
trength, different routines have different technical requirements, and each rout
ine has its own style and characteristic in terms of its movement, therefore pos
ing different requirements for different exercises. For example, sword play chan
ges rapidly, precise, light and quick; while spear play involves expansive movem
ents, a lot of changes, a high level of difficulty and detailed requirements, et
c. Correctly practicing various routines concurrently makes Wu Shu more valuable
in terms of body-building, because it impels the body to thoroughly develop.
The entire basic practice routines are divided into Group A and Group B. Group A
is more difficult and requires more vigorous movement. It is suitable to practi
ce for athletes that have reached a certain level of techniques. Group B s level
of difficulty and strength is comparable to traditional technical routines used
to improve overall technical skills. Due to lack of experience and our limited
knowledge in all aspects, mistakes are unavoidable. Reader are welcome to provi
de us with comments to allow us to improve ourselves in the future.
Opening Move (Preparatory Movements) Yu Bei Dong Zuo
* Preparatory form. Yù bèi shì.
* Push the spear down with feet together. Bìng bù xià tui quang.
* Flash the palm in Tiger Stance. Pu bù liàng zhang.
Section One
1. High Lotus and parry block thrust the spear in a Bow & Arrow. Cha bù lán n
á gong bù zhong píng zha qiang.
2. Swing leg and jump up, then parry block thrust the spear in a Bow & Arrow.
Gài tiào bù lán ná gong bù zhong píng zha qiang.
3. Single walking step, circle the spear. Gu xíng bù rào bhán qiang.
4. Jump up to High Lotus, then parry block thrust the spear in a Bow & Arrow.
Tiào Cha bù lán ná gong bù zhong píng zha qiang.
5. Tap the spear, with leg pressed behind the knee (Lazy Rooster Stance). Kòu
tui dian qiang.
6. Lift the knee to Rooster, parry downward with spear. Tí xi hào, xià bo qia
ng.
7. Step back, turn the body, then slash with spear in Low Inside Empty Stance
. Chè bù huí shen gen bù pi qiang.
8. Press the spear in Empty stance. Xu bù ya qiang.
9. Circle foot to Rooster stance and thrust the spear in Bow and Arrow. Rào s
hàng bù gong bù zhong píng zha qiang.
10. Dash spear in Empty stance. Xu bù beng qiang.
Section Two
11. Jump up, hold spear in Sitting Lotus Stance. Tiào xie bù bào qiang.
Long Feng Shuang Jian
(Dragon-Phoenix Twin Double Edge Swords)
The following are pages taken from the booklet on Shao Lin Chuan - Long Feng Shu
ang Jian (Dragon-Phoenix Twin Double Edge Swords). The first page is part of the
preface and gives the backgound of the form. The second page is from the list o
f move names from the form, and the third page is the opening move and first few
moves of the form itself.
This set of double swords is based on the Green-Dragon Double Swords of Cha Fist
and Plum-Blossom Double Swords of Six-Combination Fist. It was developed assimi
lating some of the moves from Ba Guà’s Dragon Double Swords, Cha Fist’s Forest-P
iercing Double Swords and Cao Fist’s Dragon Phoenix Double Swords.
Although it maintains the basic requirements of traditional swordplay with respe
ct to body movement, footwork, hand position, and eye movement, this set of swor
dplay has made adjustments in terms of which movements to adapt, and the sequenc
e of movements. One may say it combines the strong points of all styles and make
s itself a new set of double swordplay that not only inherits from the tradition
, but also is creative.
This set of double swordplay is suitable practice for people who have mastered t
he basics of fists. For the beginner, to make it more convenient to practice, on
e may make appropriate changes or select portions of the movement, based on the
individual’s situation, to ease the level of difficulty.
This set of double swordplay is named Dragon-Phoenix Double Swords because when
proficient, the practice looks agile, graceful, robust and gentle, like the flyi
ng dragon and the dancing phoenix.
IP: 165.247.201.63
Louis Swaim
Regular Contributor posted 06-06-2001 11:27 PM Click Here to See the Pro
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Reply w/Quote Greetings,
In my haste, I mis-spoke about something a few posts above. I said that Yang Che
ngfu’s book doesn’t mention either an Oblique Single Whip or the more familiar s
tanding palm transition from “Embrace Tiger, Return to Mountain” to “Observe Fis
t Under Elbow.” I was thinking about the photos in the book, which go from the A
n (push) posture to Observe Fist Under Elbow with no visual information about th
e transition. Yang’s narrative, however, says that “the movement is similar to t
he turning of the body in the prior Single Whip form,” advising the reader to co
nsult that sequence. The footwork is explicitly described, and the hands are des
cribed as moving with the body, level with the shoulders. There’s no mention of
a hook hand or a standing palm.
Take care,
Louis
IP: 165.247.215.85
cary
Regular Contributor posted 11-14-2003 06:59 AM Click Here to See the Pro
file for cary Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Hi- with reference to twi
st step , the name comes from the passing resemblence to the tortuous way of wal
king of women with bound feet.Ie once the front foot was down, the poor wretch h
ad to swivel her hips to bring the back leg forward. In tai chi terms, we have t
he choice of briefly shifting back,then opening the front foot out, or for more
advaanced practitioners,turning the weighted foot using the waist.This can strai
n a novice s knee.
Cary
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cary
Regular Contributor posted 11-14-2003 07:04 AM Click Here to See the Pro
file for cary Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Hai di zhen... the hai di
is an energy centre at the perineum, so yes ,there s some wordplay going on he
re! Cary
IP: 195.93.34.9
Anderzander
Regular Contributor posted 11-14-2003 09:52 AM Click Here to See the Pro
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Reply w/Quote Just a few comments
quote:Originally posted by Audi:
Bao4 Hu3 Gui1 Shan1 (Embrace Tiger and Return to Mountain)
My first reaction to considering this posture name was surprise that we go f
rom something so prosaic as "X-Hands" to something so evocative as "embracing mo
untain tigers." Does anyone know if this posture name contains any specific lite
rary allusions or antecedents from folk tales?
This is only supposition, but as the tiger image is used later within the later
posture ‘step back to ride the tiger’ and therein infers a ‘ferocious attack’, p
erhaps the tiger symbol remains consistent here?
‘Mountain’ could perhaps be consistent with the usage in ‘stand like a mountain’
So going on a little further – perhaps receiving a ferocious attack by embracing
it during the transition, and then ‘reasserting’ central equilibrium, is the in
ference from the name?
Stephen
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Louis Swaim
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Reply w/Quote
quote:Originally posted by cary:
Hai di zhen... the hai di is an energy centre at the perineum, so yes ,the
re s some wordplay going on here! Cary
Greetings Cary,
May I ask what tradition used the name haidi for the perineum? I ve seen it refe
rred to as the huiyin point, but not the haidi. I also wonder what the reference
to this point would mean in this context. It doesn t seem to be a plausible str
ike point given the position and direction of the right hand in this form. Perha
ps it just describes an approximate locus of the practitioner s hand relative to
his own perineum?
Now that I think about it, the dantian is sometimes called the "qihai" (sea of q
i), so "haidi" would be a plausible name for the perineum. I m just curious wher
e you captured this information.
Let s get to the bottom of this.
Take care,
Louis
IP: 198.45.19.20
psalchemist
Regular Contributor posted 11-14-2003 04:37 PM Click Here to See the Pro
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Reply w/Quote Greetings Anderzander,
You said:
<This is only a supposition, but as the tiger image is used later within the pos
ture "step back to ride the tiger" and therein infers a ferocious attack, perhap
s the tiger symbol remains consistent here?>
Steve,
I have never heard "ferocious attack" referred to before as a description within
the Taijiquan form, but find this very interesting.....
Have you any other commentary to provide on this point?
Thank-you,
Best regards,
Psalchemist.
[This message has been edited by psalchemist (edited 11-14-2003).]
IP: 66.130.112.229
psalchemist
Regular Contributor posted 11-14-2003 04:43 PM Click Here to See the Pro
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Reply w/Quote Greetings Louis,
You said the Dantian can be/is sometimes referred to as the "sea of qi".....
Are there any other references to sea, ocean, or body of water in Taijiquan expr
essions/terminology that you are aware of?
Thank-you,
Best regards,
Psalchemist.
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Louis Swaim
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Reply w/Quote Hi Psalchemist,
Regarding "qi hai," check out this URL:
http://www.acuxo.com/meridianPictures.asp?point=CV6&meridian=Conception%20Vessel
As for water imagery in taiji, I believe there s quite a bit of that. See, for e
xample, the sword form names elsewhere on the Yang Family site. I m sure there s
a good deal of water imagery throughout the classical taiji literature, but spe
cifics escape me at the moment.
Take care,
Louis
IP: 198.45.19.20
psalchemist
Regular Contributor posted 11-14-2003 05:51 PM Click Here to See the Pro
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Reply w/Quote Greetings Louis,
God bless your heart!
Thank-you,
Best regards,
Psalchemist.
IP: 66.130.112.229
psalchemist
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Reply w/Quote Greetings Louis,
I was inquiring a while ago about the posture "Shan Tong Bei"..."Fan through bac
k" in conjunction with metal,perhaps a sword, I also threw in an informal phrase
release the metal arrow .
I can see some connections now that I couldn t before due to lack of knowledge,
but have put a few pieces together recently which clarifies my queries...
This posture, in its final stages is extending the left arm forward, left foot f
orward etc...(releasing the jin as it were, IF one were to employ Fajin techniqu
es through the left hand) and so to me, could possibly represent a substantially
overall leftsided release .
In the link you provided above, I have discovered a correlation between the meri
dians running down the left side of the body with the element "Metal" and the ri
ght side of the body with the element "Wood".
In the case of the predominance in Shan Tong Bei for the left side, I might cons
ider this as a predominantly metal movement.
I was reading through all the descriptions presented in this thread earlier and
someone mentioned the "spokes of a wheel" in reference to the "Fan Through Back-
Shan Tong Bei" posture which could possibly connote an arrow-like, even metallic
gesture.
The release of an arrow would be a forward motion similarly to the stance Shan t
ong bei s use of Footwork skills: Jinbu ...(also the element metal )..."focuss
ing yi on jinbu point will propel the body forward"...also Jin(bu) step forwar
d ).
Hence:
RELEASE(Fajin),the
METAL(Meridian leftside, wheel spokes, footwork element)
ARROW(spoke-like),(forward propulsion...Unsaid, in a forward direction:Jinbu fo
rward footwork skills, Yi focus on jinbu pt. propels forward]
The phrase seems, at least not to violate any of the descriptions for the postur
e...even though it is not an official Taijiquan term...do you think it could app
ly to the posture in question? Or does it defy some logic I am as of yet ignoran
t of in the art?
Does it hold water, or is my bucket full of holes?
Thanks again for that reference, I will be studying, pondering, dissecting etc.e
tc.etc. for a very long time.
Thank-you,
Best regards,
Psalchemist.
P.S. Is there a family style which employs "Fajin" in this posture?
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Louis Swaim
Regular Contributor posted 11-17-2003 10:20 PM Click Here to See the Pro
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Reply w/Quote Greetings Cary,
I’m still hoping that you’ll share some more of your findings regarding the use
of the term “haidi.” In the meantime, I was able to find a passing reference to
the term haidi in Chen Yanlin’s (a.k.a., Chen Gong) 1943 book on Yang style taij
iquan. It’s in the section titled, “taijiquan de huxi yu yun qi fa” (taijiquan’s
methods of breathing and qi circulation), appearing in a description of the med
itative practice of following the qi, where it says that the qi of the dantian t
ravels downward to the haidi, then passes directly to the weilu before ascending
up the spine. Stuart Olson’s translation of this material in his book, _Cultiva
ting the Ch’i: the Chen Kung Series, Volume 1_ (Dragon Door 1993), glosses “haid
i” as “Sea Bottom Cavity (coccyx),” and “weilu” as “tailgate cavity (tailbone).”
I’m just curious what tradition these terms are grounded in. They aren’t standa
rd terms for acupuncture points, but there are non-standard medical traditions t
hat may be the source of these terms. (The term weilu appears in the Autumn Floo
ds chapter of the Zhuangzi, but may be mytho-geographical, rather than anatomica
l in its meaning.)
Chen Yanlin’s description of the taijiquan sequence, haidizhen (needle at sea bo
ttom), makes no reference to any particular significance of the term “haidi,” an
d his application scenario is very close to Yang Chengfu’s. On the other hand, X
u Yusheng (Xu Longhou), in his 1921 book, _Taijiquan shi tujie_, says that the f
orm is so named because the term haidi is the name of a cavity on the human body
, and the hand stabs (ci) in the direction of that point. Unfortunately, Xu does
not say where the point is located. His application scenario also makes no refe
rence to actually pressuring a point on the opponent’s body, so it may only have
to do with the general direction one aims (?). Huang Wenshan’s English book, Fu
ndamentals of T’ai Chi Ch’uan (Hong Kong, 1979), which cribs heavily from Xu’s b
ook, says the posture is so named because, “It means that the hand (needle) is u
sed to pressure the vital point, which is known as ‘Sea Bottom’ (Hai Ti) in acup
uncture, at the foot of the opponent.” (p. 240) Again, I’m not aware of this bei
ng an acupuncture term. Similarly, T.Y. Pang, in his book _On Tai Chi Chuan_ (Az
alea, 1987, p. 96), writes, “ ‘Sea Bottom’ is a point on a meridian. Actually th
e books never say where that point is, but I think it must mean in the region of
the energy center (dan bian) in the abdomen. So you are using your hand to atta
ck the chu hai [sic] (an acupuncture point on the abdomen just below the navel,
the dan point).” This would be the qihai point I mentioned.
It would seem, then, that there is considerable variation in just what the term
haidi refers to. Moreover, as touched on in another thread on this board, there
may be reason to believe that the form name was inspired by a common proverbial
phrase, “haidi lao zhen” (looking for a needle on the sea floor), rather than re
ferencing some pressure point or energy center. Who knows?
If you can shed any more light on this, and let me know the source of your infor
mation regarding its being an “energy center” at the perineum, I’d appreciate it
.
Take care,
Louis
[This message has been edited by Louis Swaim (edited 11-18-2003).]
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dorshugla
Regular Contributor posted 11-18-2003 11:24 AM Click Here to See the Pro
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ly w/Quote I may be may off here but Needle at Sea Bottom point is located somew
here in middle to upper ribs, as I was told once. I may have been sleeping since
the actual application is pointing to qihai it kind of throws of my supposition
. I will have to ask around.
Using metaphor, many times (as I have understood) martial adepts were not intell
ectuals and many could not read or write. There existed problem with dialect and
translation between provincces.
The present application of "haid izhen" is as you wrist is being grasped at ches
t level (between chest and navel (qihai), place left hand (inner palm ontop) opp
onent wrist and point 4 fingers (right hands) in downward position (bending angl
e of wrist) while
utilizing limited downward peng (as opposed to pushing peng).
Actual form tend to be too low for application, althought the art aspect tends t
o estethically pleasing (for show). A good thing if that is one s interest!
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Louis Swaim
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Reply w/Quote Greetings dorshugla,
You wrote: “The present application of "haidi zhen" is as you wrist is being gra
sped at chest level (between chest and navel (qihai), place left hand (inner pal
m ontop) opponent wrist and point 4 fingers (right hands) in downward position (
bending angle of wrist) while utilizing limited downward peng (as opposed to pus
hing peng).”
Yes, that is certainly one of them, and it can drop an opponent in an instant, o
r have them duckwalking like Chuck Berry, depending on how much they resist, and
how it is applied. It won’t work if one tries to strong-arm it; it’s the sinkin
g of the body that makes it effective. However, it’s only one part of a progress
ive series of techniques that can come into play in the whole sequence of Needle
at Sea Bottom, Fan Through Back, and Turn Body Cast Fist (? the form name escap
es me at the moment)—from a simple wrist release, to joint immobilizing locks, t
o strikes. It all depends on the actions of the opponent.
Yang Zhenduo s form description doesn t mention the applying of the left palm to
the opponent s wrist, but Chen Yanlin includes it in his description as one pos
sible technique. It s optional, depending on what s needed.
Take care,
Louis
IP: 198.45.19.20
dorshugla
Regular Contributor posted 11-18-2003 03:09 PM Click Here to See the Pro
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ly w/Quote Louis,
Your are right-there are multiple uses.
If one is in conflict with a stronger opponent, then the single use (without lef
t hand gently helping) will be unworkable.
Only the simple pickpocket or petty crime person will resort to this strategy (i
.e.holding wrist because the person appear weak).
BAsed on the objective reality of crime statisttics, this type of action rarely
exists (grasping wrists to assault) so it become non-functional through disuse o
r lack of awareness of how to use.
IP: 130.36.62.126
psalchemist
Regular Contributor posted 11-19-2003 09:54 AM Click Here to See the Pro
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Reply w/Quote Greetings Louis,
I was pondering a purely theoretical perspective concerning the "Needle at Sea B
ottom" posture.
An uneducated guess at a possible metaphorical meaning...
No reference.
I am simply presenting a creative idea on the issue.
Considering opening and closing of points and channels...
In "Needle at Sea Bottom" when one bends the torso to go downwards, I believe th
ere is a closing up of the frontal waist channels/conception vessel (whose low
est point is the Huiyin point or perineal point), which causes a general depriva
tion of qi to the waist area (the qi focussed is somewhere else-the points which
compensated by opening). When one proceed to raise up again this then causes th
e closed points to open as a floodgate, or opening a dam. and the waist area the
n becomes flooded with a "sea of qi" from the waist to the pireneal. Perhaps s
imilar in nature to the process of accupuncture where needling the perineal poin
t will stimulate flow and unblock passages in this area.
Thus needle(provoking stimulation) at sea bottom(perineal area)...
Well, I tried.
Best regards,
Psalchemist.
[This message has been edited by psalchemist (edited 11-19-2003).]
IP: 66.130.112.229
dorshugla
Regular Contributor posted 11-19-2003 10:21 AM Click Here to See the Pro
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ly w/Quote We are back to metaphor again.
Let me explain: It has a cultural, social and intellectual bias/background. We a
re referencing the "Neeedle at Sea bottom" posture-As I was told many years ago,
the Sea Bottom point (hai di zhen) was/is somewhere between middle to upper rib
s area (a specific point) and is used to shock/or stop an attack whith an overly
aggressive individual who didn t /doesn t heed or understand compassion or reas
on. It needed intervention of the one who applied it to use resucitation techniq
ues also implying knowledge of acupuncture/some degree of anatomy or experience-
in other words, a knowledgeable and literate instructor or person.
The passive observes who has an interest, or less lietrate will hear the tern/ph
rase "Needle at sea botton" and will in his social framework reference top there
fore bottom (below), and as the actual posture is going down towards the qihai a
rea (lower dantian below navel) so the conclusion is it must be the answer. It i
s a logical conclusion based onmj "metaphor" of posture and actual representatio
n.
Agian, fellows, I cannot prove in writing that this is the case but I have perso
nal experience. My teachers were of the "old school" (somewhat literate, in my w
ords as their explanations proved right over the years). Please remember I did n
ot believe everyhtiong they said but since I believe I have some ability to diff
erentiate the false from the real only time will reveal its key.
Please do not believe what I said as gospel. Please scrutinize everything this w
ay.
Practice, listen and apply. If it works, so be it.
IP: 130.36.62.126
Louis Swaim
Regular Contributor posted 11-19-2003 11:54 AM Click Here to See the Pro
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Reply w/Quote Ps and d,
In what sense do you both mean "metaphorical?"
Psalchemist,
How do you get xuanji as the "perineal point?"
All in all, this seems pretty unfocused.
Take care,
Louis
IP: 198.45.19.20
psalchemist
Regular Contributor posted 11-19-2003 12:00 PM Click Here to See the Pro
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Reply w/Quote Greetings Louis,
Your right, I used the wrong end of the Conception vessel (huiyin-xuanji)...
Huiyin-perineal
Chengjian-bottom lip/chin