WCCO’s Rajkumar and Candidate Otto

Hold Minnesota Give-N-Take on Gun Violence

(Note: During the 12 o’clock hour of News & Views with Roshini Rajkumar on 2/17/18,
2018 Gubernatorial Hopeful Rebecca Otto fields questions on gun-related issues
prompted by the school shooting in Parkland, Florida.)

Rajkumar introduces the topic and guest at the 20:25 mark.

20:55 Raj: The Wall Street Journal pulled some stats about school shootings (what
we know right now) and in these situations at schools where at least 3 people were killed
or injured since 1990, most of the shooters have had a relationship with the school.

Many of those situations they were a student, in fact most a current student, and in a few
of them they were a former student. And high schools over any other kind of school (in
these shootings since 1990) are the most likely to be victimized.

21:35 Raj: We’re going to talk about this very hot topic of gun control and gun laws
with Minnesota State Auditor Rebecca Otto, she is also a candidate for governor on the
DFL side. Welcome back to the studio and the show.

Otto: Thanks for having me today.

21:51 Raj: This is something that everyone is weighing in on. What was your initial
reaction when you heard this had happened?

Otto: Enough is enough; really, enough is enough.

You know, I’ve had so many parents—moms and dads-- talk to me as I’ve been on the
trail about—I’ve got a kindergartener, and they’re supposed to be learning ABC’s, 1 2 3s,
how to get along and instead they’re doing these lock down drills for active shooters. And
a mom said to me, “What is this doing to our kids?” You know, we’re supposed to learn
how to color within the lines or not. This is a pressing issue that must be dealt with and
government has to do something about it.

Raj: You know it’s interesting you say that about government having to do something
about it, and I will ask two of our legislators coming in next hour … Rep. Dave Baker
and Sen. Melisa Franzen … there’s the state and then there are the federal laws.

And also in the 1 o’clock hour a former ATFE Rich Marianos is going to weigh in, and
he was sharing with me yesterday how he is really pointing at Congress. Congress just
sort of sitting on their hands (his words) and not really passing the laws the ATF, FBI and
other bureaus need to really fight.

So, what do you think are some of the solutions here?

23:15 Otto: Well first of all, Congress is paralyzed by the money of the NRA. Let’s
just be really frank about it. And so, states must lead, states are leading and there are
states that have passed important laws that begin to get at this issue.

Quite often people say ‘we can’t because, we can’t because’, yes we can, and it’s time.

And the voters can decide that it is time. And so as a state, we can decide that we can
also lead.

23:39 Otto: There are things we can do like banning bump stocks, we can ban bullets
that can pierce armor, we can require universal background checks. There are bills for
banning bump stocks and requiring universal background checks in the House and Senate
in Minnesota right now. In a couple of states, the voters have voted to pass universal
background checks.

So it’s the NRA that’s getting in our way, and big industry, and I call it the ‘politics of
greed.’ We’ve gotta focus back on the common good.

Raj: And I’m guessing a lot of people would agree with you, if you want to weigh in,
my guest is state auditor and candidate for governor Rebecca Otto. Give us a text.

This listener says this, Rebecca: Arming qualified and trained teachers is one way to stop
the shooters. That’s kind of scary to me frankly, that thought.

Otto: Yeah, and you know I don’t know teachers that want to have to do this, I just saw
a teacher yesterday out in a rural community. This is the last thing they wanna do … we
don’t need to militarize our schools. We live in the United States of America, and we
have law enforcement for a reason. We also have the military for a reason. But we
shouldn’t be in a war-torn country. This is the United States and this is Minnesota.

This is not the direction to go. We need to get control, we need gun safety, and there are
common sense laws that can improve what we’re doing. The time is now.

Raj: One of the things I feel is true, but also I’ve been reading more about lately, is that
there will be these bills. So like you say the universal background check. And maybe
that language is there, you’ve got some bipartisan support, and then they start adding in,
adding in, adding other layers. So ultimately nothing ever gets to the Floor of the House
or the Senate. And this could happen at both the state level and the federal level.
So what’s your thought about that? You’re running for governor, and you’re going to
have to deal with—if you were to win—and even in the campaign, share with people how
you would deal with legislators?

25:46 Otto: I’ll first start with the fact that it’s the citizens of Minnesota that have
the ability to vote in legislators, this next election will be governor but also the Minnesota
House, there are going to be a lot of seats up. So they need to ask (when someone knocks
on their door and says I want your vote) ‘Where do you stand on this issue?’ I mean this
is an issue that our kids are depending on us to do the right thing and to have clean bills.

And so it takes leadership and it takes people with integrity. If we can’t get this done for
our kids, I mean this is a role for government now.

Raj: I don’t see how anyone can say with a straight face that it’s not political. It’s
become so politicized. Peter is on the line from Minneapolis. Hi there, Peter.

Caller: Hello, so I’m a teacher at a school, and it’s so disappointing to hear sometimes
after the weekends how many young students talk about how much fun they had playing
Grand Theft Auto or all these games, so at the beginning, it might be good to find a way
to not glorify all the violence and have more restrictions on all of that.

Otto: You know, Thank you, Peter, and I also was a classroom teacher by the way, but
I know there’ve been some studies done, and I did talk to someone about what the
profiles of our shooters is, and I think they do play violent video games. So let’s have a
conversation about that, and the impact that it has on our kids.

27:19 Raj: It’s a multi-billion dollar industry. Otto: Exactly. Raj: And I’m not
trying to make any kind of value judgment on that, there are layers, this is a complicated,
complex issue.

Nancy is calling from St. Paul. Hi there, Nancy.

Caller: Hi, there. I just wanted to say in my opinion, I agree the teachers don’t need to
have guns. But why can’t we get, you know I’ve seen things on Facebook about retired
military … let them, you know, people who are coming back from the war and they can’t
get jobs and things. Why don’t we let them be in the schools and reward them for
helping us, because if someone is crazy and/or bad, they’re going to get something no
matter what. They’re going to get knives, bats, whatever.

You’ve got to start when they’re younger. And that leads me to, “Where’s the
parenting?”

Otto: Yes, Thank you. And also what I would say is that one of the issues we’re
dealing with is the ability to take so many lives in a very, very short period of time. So
when we have high capacity magazine clips, when we have assault type rifles, a knife
cannot kill so many people in such a short period of time.

And so that’s the issue where government can say we’re going to limit the high-capacity
magazine clips & assault-type rifles. That’s where we can have an impact. And so, we’ve
got to get on this as a government now.

29:00 Raj: This listener has a very simple question, ‘What law would have stopped
this?’

Otto: That’s the normal circle of NRA talk of well:

“We can’t. We can’t. “

Yes, we can.

Raj: There’s not one law though, in the state that we’re in right now. Otto: Exactly.

Raj: As a country, as a movement here, is a lot of people getting together like you said
right off the top: ‘Enough.’

29:32 Otto: Enough is enough, and we can’t say it’s too hard. It’s not too hard.
We’ve got the University of Minnesota in this state, this great research institution. We
have a lot of people who are currently motivated, we have parents who are motivated, we
have teachers who are motivated, and we’ve got me is who is motivated to do something
very different and have that conversation. We cannot allow the complications to stop us
from changing things.

So I’m not going to take, “What law would’ve stopped this?” We do know this young
man in Florida had issues, that he was ostracized, and that he had put some things out on
social media.

We’ve got to figure out, again, we know the profiles of people who do these types of
shootings, so let’s start to figure out those common sense laws that change things. You
know, it’s kind of like motor vehicle deaths, we studied this a long time ago, and we
changed laws and we changed the design of cars to save lives. And we can do the same
thing, we can change where we make these firearms, that we limit people’s capacity to
take out so many lives in such a short period of time. Innocent lives.

Raj: We are taking calls and texts, I want to hear from you, 81807 is our text line or
give us a call (number provided). State Auditor Rebecca Otto is our guest; she’s also
candidate for Governor on the DFL side. We’d love to hear from you.

31:11 Julie wants to weigh in. She is calling from St. Paul. Hi there, Julie.
Caller: Hi, the argument I hear constantly from the right is that a really bad guy is
gonna get a gun anyway, their going to find a way to get the gun, so in other words, the
inference is: why have some (gun) laws? Just to prove a point, Florida, just last week,
stuck in their Agricultural Bill a weakening of background checks.

So, what do you say against this argument that there’s nothing we can do to keep bad
people from getting guns? So why should we actually try?

32:01 Otto: The gun show loophole we need to close it. There are people who are
getting a hold of firearms that should not get a hold of firearms. There are ways for us to
limit that, and there are other things we can do to make sure kids are safe in our schools.

Of course, you have to have basic security measures in schools, but I was talking to a
rural teacher yesterday who said, “We’ve got over 60 cameras in our schools. You
know? Enough is enough. And so no more with the NRA arguments that we just can’t
get them anyway, that’s the NRA speaking. That’s the politics of greed, that’s industry
and now we have to focus on the common good.

Raj: This listener is talking about how mental illness gets pulled into this and says:
“Lawmakers should stop rationalizing gun violence as mental illness. Guns are the
problem. Crazies can’t mass kill without guns.”

There are so many layers to me, if you were not licensed to have a gun for a healthy
reason, there’s probably no reason to be using it on other people. Right? Then you have
the dynamics of where is the mental health, what’s the criminal record on this person?

And the biggest part, “What’s the intent of anyone who has a gun?” There are only so
many things we can legislate in our country, and we have to be willing as a nation …

You mentioned Rebecca before the break there were posts from this shooter. Well, if we
want to start allowing government, bureaus & the FBI to look at those, we’re going to
have to start giving up some of our privacy.

I don’t necessarily want to have to make sure everything… I try to make sure everything
I post is legal and kosher, but I don’t want FBI having over my head and knowing and
looking at my tweets all the time, right?

So there are those kinds of fundamental liberties we may have to give up, if we want to
do some of the things some people are proposing.

Otto: Right, but you know there’s also family and community. These kids were aware
that he was an outcast. There were teachers that knew. We have to find a way to report
this, and to make sure that we have all hands on deck in our communities so that we are
safe.
34:23 Let’s just talk about accidental deaths, kids getting a hold of guns, suicides.
There’s just some really basic things we can do to save lives. There are people that want
to blame gun violence, and especially these mass shootings, on mental health issues.

Frankly, people with mental health issues tend to be victimized more often by guns than
… perpetrators.

So let’s be clear about that, too. It’s complex, doable, let’s take care of these firearms that
are able to kill many many people in a very short period of time—high-capacity
magazines, assault-style rifles, we don’t need those and civilians don’t need those.

Raj: We’re talking with Rebecca Otto. She is Minnesota’s state auditor, as well as a
candidate for governor.

We have a big number of calls, so I’m going to ask all our callers when we get to you,
please try to keep your question or comment as brief as possible, so we can Rebecca’s
reaction and we get to the other callers.

35:26 Caller: Hi, I have followed your career as auditor, Ms. Otto, and I wish you
the best of luck in your run for governor. But I believe that Mothers Against Drunk
Driving have been rather effective, and I’m just wondering if somebody could organize
Mothers Against Guns, because I think when women—and particularly mothers get
behind things—things happen.

What do you think about that?

Raj: Great comment. Thank you, Betty.

Otto: Yes. Thank you, Betty. You know we do have a group called Moms Demand
Action. But I’ll tell you what, we, as parents/grandparents/aunts & uncles and
Minnesotans—it’s time for us to rise up and say ‘Enough is enough’ and this must be
grassroots.

This should be at the doors when people ask for your votes, and you ask them: ‘Have you
taken money from the NRA?’ ‘What are your plans to make sure people are safe in our
communities and people are not victimized?”

Raj: Donny is calling in from South St. Paul. Hi, Donny.

36:35 Caller: Hi, Rebecca, two things: Our high school has a liaison, and there are
people who go all over the country to train these people. I don’t think we want people
with firearms in the schools who are not trained in the school culture.
Second thing is: One of the problems is Minnesota is we have a dearth of counselors.
Minnesota’s one of the worst in counseling. I heard your words about being perpetrators
vs. victims, but we still have a woeful need … the research says that 10 to 25% if kids on
a given day have depression.

Raj: So Donny you mean like in-school counseling services?

Caller: Yes, we’re one of the worst in the United States, which is ironic because the
rest of our system is so good.

37:37 Otto: Thank you for that. You are right on there. I advocate for more school
counselors, and we do have children that are struggling. And not all parents have the
resources, so we need to get to a Universal Health Care system with that as a basic
benefit.

I agree with you. We must get more counselors in the schools to help our children at the
youngest ages. That’s an important piece of the puzzle, thank you for that.

38:02 Raj: Some really great texts coming in, we probably won’t be able to get to
all of them. But I want to mention this one:

‘New Federal Law’ (I guess this is what this person is proposing)—raise the age to 21
and a parent co-signer between the age 14 and 20, plus only single shot game guns.

Second: Mandatory drug test receipt before purchase.

And third, limit mass assault to ‘fun gun’ ranges, if at all.

So those are some thoughts this listener had, it sounds like, for some proposed new
federal laws.

Otto: Yeah, I’m running at the state level to serve at the state level. We should be
looking at evidenced-based policies. But we haven’t been able to do a lot research on this
as a public health issue, and that is absolutely critical, too.

But there are some basic things we can do to close the gunshow loopholes, and ban these
high-capacity magazine clips and these assault-style rifles that can take so many lives in
short order. There’s many things we’re going to have to do. Really the action should
happen at the federal level, but the NRA has paralyzed Congress, so we’re going to have
to act as states.

Raj: This person says, ‘If we know the profiles describing mass shooters, what prevents
us from identifying them before something bad occurs?’
‘Should we have a database to identify these persons and maintain a computer watch on
their movement?’

39:26 Raj: Well, I have some major constitutional issues with that one, and chances
are, the FBI and other law enforcement is doing something like this already. We’ll see
what our ATFE guest has to say in the 1 o’clock hour.

Real quickly, I want to go to Colleen in St. Paul. Colleen, we’ve got about 15 seconds if
you can get your comment in.

Caller: Sure, I know we’ve considered these assault rifles weapons of war, so they’re
readily available to people. But it seems also that the people that advocate for this are
willing to kill hundreds of thousands of people to prevent North Korea from getting a
weapon of mass destruction. Those two things just don’t seem to stack up for me, and I’m
wondering, Roshini and Rebecca, what you thought of that?

Otto: In terms of saying we don’t want North Korea to kill thousands of people and
we also don’t want firearms to kill thousands of people—I guess that’s what you’re
saying—absolutely, Public safety is essential, and that’s one of the things government is
supposed to be doing on our behalf.

And so, again, I’ll say ‘Enough is enough’—it is time for us to begin to make sure that
our children our safe, we’re safe in our communities to go shopping, to an outdoor
concert …. All these different things.

This is America. We’re smart. We can do this.

Raj: And this is America. What I’ll say on that front is that we have a beautiful
document, which is the Constitution. On any given day, it’s getting challenged, and it’s
also being upheld. If we want to live under the Constitution, we have to also sometimes
be flexible. Right?

41:00 We’re not going to become an ‘iron state’ but because we’re not, some of these
things are going to continue to happen.

Great to have you on, Rebecca Otto. We’ll have you back. This issue we’ll talk a little
bit more about it in the 1 o’clock hour with our political folks. It’s going to be quite a 1
o’clock hour.

Alright, we’ll take a break. Rebecca Otto, thanks for coming in.

Otto: Thank you for this important conversation.