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Plato Notes
Plato Notes
BOOK II -
Back to the Beginning: The Settling of Lacedaimon (682e) [Ath: As if according to a god]
The Dorians are Achaeans Who Had Besieged Troy And Been Exiled by the Men At Home (682e)
The Settling of Lacedaimon is the Fourth City - or Nation (683a)
Target Concepts: The Noble and Ignoble in Settlement, Laws that Preserve and Destroy, What Changes
Make a City Happy (683b)
Argos, Messene and Lacedaimon (683d-693b)
Divided From a Common Source And Made Into Separate Cities (683d)
Each Swears to Come to the Aid of the Others if Anyone Should Subvert the Monarchy (683e)
In the Name of Zeus! (683e)
All Monarchies Are Dissolved By The Rulers Themselves (683e) [dismissing popular uprising because
people are bound by oaths]
The Three Monarchies Swore an Oath: One, Never To Make Their Ruler Harsher; The Others, Never To
Dissolve The Monarchies or Let Them Be Dissolved (684a)
What The Many Call Pleasant Is Not Always Good (684c)
A Rough Equality of Property And No Debt Preserved Them From the Ill-Received Effects of
Redistribution And Bankruptcy (684d)
This Moderate Old Man's Game Concerning Laws (685a)
The Assyrian Empire of Ninos and the Trojan War (685c): An Unjust Empire
How Was The Empire of the Three Kingdoms Destroyed? (686b)
A Common Desire to Have Things Go The Way You Want Them To (686c-688a)
Prudence and Intelligence (687d-e) (prayer)
Prudence, Intelligence and Opinion, With Eros and Desire (688b)
The Cause of Destruction (Then and Now): Ignorance Regarding the Greatest of Human Affairs (688c-
d)
Prudence and the Lack of Intelligence (688e)
The Greatest Sort of Ignorance (689a-c)
The Greatest Consonance is the Greatest Wisdom (689d)
Titles to Rule and be Ruled (690a)
(1) Parents over children
(2) The well-born over the not well-born
(3) The elderly over the younger
(4) Masters over slaves (690b)
(5) The stronger over the weaker (kl. Believes that this is “compellingly necessary.”) (the issue of
what we mean by “strong.”)
(6) The greatest title: the prudent over the ignorant, or as he elaborates, "the natural rule exercised by
the law over willing [NOT RATIONAL FREEDOM, BUT
FREEDOM BASED ON FEAR/AWE “manufacturing consent”] subjects,
without violence."
(7) Dear to the gods and lucky: rule by lot
The Cause of Corruption: First Among the Kings or the People? (691a) (pleonexia of monarchs)
What Should Have Been Done? (691b, “in the name of the gods!” – because correcting them)
The Young, Irresponsible Soul Can Never Bear The Greatest Rule (691c-d)
The Cause of Preservation: The Mixed Regime (691a-692a)
The First Saviour: A God Was Taking Care Of The Empire of Three Kingdoms And Brought
Them Twin King Brothers (691d-e)
The Second Saviour: A Human Nature Mixed With Divine Power Mixes The Power of Old Age
With That Of Family Lineage in The Council of the Twenty-Eight (691-692a)
The Third Savior: The Ephors Stem Spiritedness By Lot (692a)
A God Has Shown The Model (692b-c)
Two Shameful Cities (692d-e)
A Dig At the Persian Empire: Barbarian Melting Pot (693a)
The Ends of Legislation: Freedom, Prudence, A Friend To Itself (693b)
Explaining A Confusion Of Ends (693c)
Different names for identical ends.
Two Mothers of Regimes - Monarchy and Democracy (not in the sense of self-governance) (Persia and Athens) (693d-
698b/698b-701d)
Persian Monarchy:
Freedom, Friendship and Prudence Require Them Both (693d-e)
The Dorians Have More Measure Than Either The Persians Or The Athenians (693e)
The Persians Were Measured Under Cyrus (694a): freedom, intelligence, friendship (a-b)
Cause of Decline: Cyrus Failed To Grasp What True Education Is And Did Not Direct His Mind To
Household Management (694c)
He left his children in the hands of women and was preoccupied with military matters (694d).
The women raised the children without the proper balance between pleasure and pain.
A happy education was their great corrupter (695b).
Darius Had A Different Education (695c) But Failed To Give Xerxes The Proper Education (695d-e)
No Honours to Men Without Virtue; Nor To Men With Virtue But Without Moderation (696b)
What About The Moderate Man, Lacking The Other Virtues? (696d)
Moderation is not worthy of talk, but of a silent sign (696e).
Honours Should Be Given In The Rank of Their Usefulness When Coupled With Moderation (696e):
The Lawmaker's Task
A Threefold Distinction of Goods (679a): Soul, Body, Property/Money.
The Persians Were Too Despotic And No Longer Ruled For The Good Of The People (697c-d)
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX [698a: fill in the consequences]
Athenian Democracy (698b) (Spartan revision of Athenian regime)
Four Classes and Awe For The Laws (698b) (regime of Solon)
The Seize of Eretria (698c-e)
The Persians Are Coming (699a-b)
Taking Refuge In Themselves and in the Gods (699b)
Awe Unites The Athenians (699c-d)
Voluntary Servitude To The Ancient Laws (700a)
Music: The Origin Of Excessive Freedom (700a-d)
Hymns, dirges, paeans, dithyrambs (about the birth of Dionysus), nomoi.
The educated listen in silence; the children, attendants and the mob are kept in order by threat of
beating.
Until the poets became the rulers and held sway over unmusical lawlessness (700d)
The poets were ignorant about the just and the lawful (700d-e): Rhizome, Free-Jazz .
In Place of Aristocracy, A Wretched Theatocracy (701a)
Kleineis's Colony: A City In Speech, In Deed (702b-702e)
Crete is Founding A Colony; The Knossians Have Delegated To Kl. and Nine Others (702a)
BOOK IV -
Note: The Previous Arguments Have Not Been Made In The Presence Of The Colonists (715e)
Preludes (722a-724b)
None Of The Law-Givers Has Ever Made Use Of The Double-Method (722b-c)
A Third Way Of Handling The Laws (722c)
Noon: All Has Been A Prelude (722c-d)
Prelude, Not Argument (723a-b)
Not Every Law Should Have A Prelude, Contra Kleinias (723c)
But There Is A Prelude By Nature For Every Law (723d)
Covered Ground: Gods, Heroes, Family, Living and Dead
Ground Yet To Cover: How To Be Serious, How To Relax in Body, Soul and Property (724b).
BOOK V
Speak Not Of Laws, But Of Praise and Blame, Education to Obedience To The Laws (730b)
*Truth Is The Leader Of All Good Things For Gods And Of All Things For Humans (730c)
The Man Led By Truth Is Trustworthy
The Man Who Finds The Voluntary Lie Congenial Is Untrustworthy
The Man Who Finds The Involuntary Lie Congenial Is Unintelligent
Both Are Friendless, Because Discovered, Eventually
The Man Who Is Both Just And Who Does Not Allow Unjust Men To Act Unjustly Is More Than Twice
As Honourable As The Man Who Is Merely Just (730d)
But The Great, Perfect Man, Victor In Virtue Is The Man Who Assists The Magistrates In
Inflicting Punishment (730d)
Moderation, Prudence And All Good Things Capable Of Being Possessed And Given Away (730e-731a)
The Giver Is First In Order Of Honour
The Willing To Give, Second
*The One Who Does Not Share Certain Goods In Common, "Out Of Friendship", Is To
Be Blamed (730e-731a)
Love Victory In Virtue, But Do Not Envy (731a)
The Real Man: Spirited And Gentle (731b)
Fighting Against Impossible-to-Cure Injustices
Gentle Against Curable Injustices: No Man Is Unjust Willingly: Pity This Man (731c)
The Greatest Of All Evils: Excessive Friendship For Oneself (731e)
Honouring One's Own vs. Honouring The Truth
Recollect Admonitions To Virtue, In Play And In Earnest (732b-c)
BOOK VI
BOOK VII
(Children Continued)
Games, Punishments Years 3-6 (793e)
Nurses Watch The Kids, One of Twelve Women Watches The Nurses (794c)
The Oversees Can Punish Slaves and Servants, But Most Take Citizens To Court Before
The City Regulator
Sex Separation At Six (794c)
Habituating Ambidexterity (794e-795d)
Gymnastic:
Dancing (795e)
(1) For A Free And Magnificent Demeanour: Imitating The Speech Of The Muse
(2) For Health, Agility and Beauty:
Wrestling
Always Arrayed With Weapons And Horses (796c)
THE DISCUSSION OF GYMNASTIC PROMISED IN BOOK 2 ENDS HERE (796d)
Buildings For Gymnastic and Instruction, Three In The Centre, Three Around The City (804c)
Equal Training For Men and Women
Mandatory Training
War And Music
The Regulation Of Days Of Nights Of Freemen (807e)
The Importance Of Moderate Or Little Sleep (808b-c)
BOOK VIII
Festivals (828a-d)
Delphic Oracle: Who, What + Legislator: When, How Many
How Many: Three-Hundred Sixty Five
How Many: Twelve For The Twelve Gods
Men's Festivals And Women's Festivals
Underworld Rites In The Twelfth Month, The Month Of Pluto (828d)
Pluto: To Be Honoured As "Being Always The Best For The Human Race" (828d)
Dissolution Is Better Than (Or Equal To) Community For Soul And Body
If One Is Supremely Good, No Injustice Is Done To One (829a)
Military Exercises: Once A Month, Minimum (829b)
Games That Imitate Battles (829c)
Poems That Praise And Blame
The Poet: At Least Fifty Years Old
The Poet: Must Have Performed Noble And Conspicuous Deeds
The Character Of The Poet Is More Important Than The Quality Of The Poem (829d)
The Poet: The Educator And Guardians Of The Laws Will Select Him
The Poet: Only He Will Have Freedom Of Speech In Musical Compositions
Practice: With Sparring Partners, With A Dummy, With Shadows (830a-c)
Military Exercises: Creating Noble Fear, Forgiving Accidental Murders (830c-831b)
Why Don't Cities Do These Things?
Not Because Of The Ignorance Of The Law-Givers And The Many (831b-c)
(1) Erotic Love Of Wealth
(2) Non-Regimes, Factions: Democracy, Oligarchy, Tyranny (832c)
Voluntary Rule Over Involuntary Subjects
Contests For Armed Runners (833a)
(1) For Children
(2) Youth
(3) Men
Girls and Women (833c-d)
The Outspoken Man Of Reason: Taking Precautions Against Erotic Lust (835c-842b)
Against Homosexuality (836c)
Hardly Anyone With True Law In His Mind Would Legislate Such A Practice (836e)
The Friendship Of Equals In Virtue (Gentle, Mutual: 837b)
The Friendship Of Unequals In Wealth (Terrible, Savage: 837b)
Either Becomes Erotic When Vehement
The Love That Seeks To Possess A Body
That Love That Seeks To Possess A Noble, Virtuous Soul
Megillus Is Convinced (837e)
Kleinias: Not Yet Persuaded (837e)
The Unwritten Law Against Incest (838b)
How Does It Work: The Agreement, Repetition, Presentation (In Drama) (838d)
The Athenian's Art (838e-842b):
Outlawed: Homosexuality, Abortion, Wasting Sperm, Inseminating Unworthy Women
Benefits: Prevents Erotic Frenzy, Adultery, Excess In Food And Drink, Makes Husbands
And Wives More Familiar To One Another (839a-b)
The Problem: Young Men Full Of Sperm Would Not Like The Speech
The Problem: People Disbelieve That Such A Law Can Be Practised (839c-d)
The First Law: Persuasion About The Victory Over Pleasures (839e-840e)
The Second Law: Shame Them Into Doing The Practice In Private (841b)
Opposing The Licentious:
Reverence For Gods
Love of Honour
Desire For Souls, Not Body
These Laws, Should They Pass, Would "Bring About By Far The Best Effects In
All Cities" (841c)
Two Ordinances (841d-e)
The Farming Laws (842e-846d)
The Craftsmen (846d-847e)
Food Supply (847e-848c)
Housing (848c-849b)
Commodities (849b-850a)
Resident Aliens (850a-c)
BOOK IX - Punishments
BOOK X
The Athenian Speaks To Himself, Invoking The Gods, About The Gods' Existence, By Demonstrating
The Priority Of Soul To Body (893b-899d)
The Athenian Speaks To The Group, Which Believes The Gods Exists But Don't Care About Human
Things (899d-905e)
The Athenian Speaks To The Third Group, Which Believers The Gods Can Be Placated With
Prayers And Offerings (905e-907b)
BOOK XI
BOOK XII