Wood Heat Storage – Flues vs.

Bells
July 5, 2013 by SMathieu

Users often want to capture excess heat from burning wood and then have it gradually released
later, overnight for example, when no one is tending the fire. One of the simplest ways to do this is
by heating a significant amount of thermal mass (water, clay or “cob”, brick or stone), from the
exhaust after combustion. There are a number of schemes for this and how much heat you can
store is dependent on both the materials used and how the heat from the exhaust is transferred. I
am going to leave the materials issue for a different article.

When using solid forms of thermal mass such as clay, brick or stone, there are two basic
approaches to the passive capture and storage of heat from wood burning exhaust. One approach
uses flues, another chambers or bells.

Flues

The most common approach for heat capture is to use flues. Using flues, the hot exhaust from
combustion is given a circuitous route through some form of thermal mass (clay, stone, or brick).
The tricky part is that the path must be long enough to allow sufficient time for the hot gases to
transfer their heat to the surrounding mass, but not so long it loses too much heat and velocity,
causing the stove to stall. Many masonry heater designs rely on this approach, as do most “rocket
mass heaters”.

In the case of masonry heaters, the exhaust is routed through masonry lined flues. Often these
flues or channels are larger than the exhaust chimney to allow additional time for capture of their
heat, but they are still considered “flue” designs since all the gases move together.

In the case of rocket mass heaters, the exhaust is routed through steel pipe that is matched in size
to the chimney exhaust and is typically covered with “cob” a clay based building material. This is
the heat capture technique developed and outlined in the book “Rocket Mass Heaters” by Ianto
Evans and Leslie Jackson. The gases heat the pipe which, in turn, transfers the heat to the cob
where it is radiated back into the room.

Bells

An alternative to the flue approach is the use of chambers or bells. A specific version of this
approach is called “Free Gas Movement”. A lot of the basic research was done by V. E. Grum-
Grzhimailo (1864-1928) in Russia in the early 20th century. Subsequently, Igor Kuznetsov has been
developing and implementing masonry heaters using chambers also in Russia. He has also written
about the physics of gas movement to maximize heat extraction and put much of his findings in
the public domain.

In a bell system, the exhaust is routed into large chambers where the gases are allowed to collect.
They will then, by process of physics stratify by temperature, with the hottest gases being at the
top and the coldest at the bottom. The exit point for the chamber is then always positioned at the
bottom so that only the coldest gases are removed and the hottest gases remain. If two or more
chambers are put in series, the hottest and coldest gases for each chamber will be successively
cooler.

This approach has a number of important advantages.

Hot Gases are not swept out with cold gases

In a flue based system, both the hot and cold gases are intermixed and carried at equal speed to
the exit. By allowing the gases to stratify, only the colder gases are being evacuated and the hotter
ones are trapped and remain in contact with the thermal mass until they have cooled.

Prevents damper induced rapid stove cool off

Because flues sweep all the gases together, if the damper is not closed “in time” the remaining hot
gases are swept away along with in residue heat in the flue. With bells, the hot wood gases collect
and cannot escape until they have cooled, preventing rapid stove cool off from a damper left open
too long.

Gas velocity losses reduced

As gases move through flues, they develop drag. Each turn creates even more resistance reducing
the chimney’s ability to pull the gases out. Too many turns or flue runs which are too long can
result in a stalled and failed heater. Conditions are not always uniform, so when designing a flue
system a “draft reserve” is needed to insure proper stove operation. The problem is that providing
for additional draft margin, often means compromising on heat extraction capacity.

When heat extraction is done via bells, the travel distances and directional re-routing of gases is
minimized, allowing heat extraction to take place without large frictional losses. Gravity separates
the hot and cold gases without introducing any form of drag on the chimney’s draw.

Improved performance during prolonged firing

In a flue approach, the longer the stove is run the hotter the flue walls become, decreasing their
ability to absorb heat. However, a second chamber (or bell) will always be cooler (than the first
one) and thus allow better heat extraction.
Faster removal of ballast gases

Exhaust gases from burning wood are comprised of those gases which were part of the
combustion process and those that were merely heated by proximity to the combustion. Gases
that do not directly participate in the combustion are called “ballast gases”. For example, nitrogen,
which comprises approximately 80% of atmospheric air, is a ballast gas. Ballast gases are not as
hot and cool off quicker. In a bell system where gravity naturally separates the temperatures this
allows the ballast gases to be removed 1st, providing more time for the higher temperature gases
to transfer their heat to the thermal mass while not slowing down the overall gas velocity. If all
gases are expelled at an equal rate, as in a flue system, this is not possible.

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Comments

1. Greg says:

July 10, 2013 at 11:11 pm

Thanks Smathieu for your explanation of the bells and flues. I’m contemplating the purchase,
this fall, of a 6 ” dragon heater. Are there instructions included with the purchase for
assembly…for those of us that are not masons?
My Best to You,
Greg
Eureka, Ca

SMathieu says:

July 11, 2013 at 3:52 pm

Thanks for your comment. Have you watched the video of the 4″ build. Its pretty easy.
There are complete sketchup drawing and detailed instructions included with the plans.
We have several different plans and more coming so it depends on which style you decide
you want to go with, you would get that particular plan.

Thanks again
Sandy

2. Jo says:

September 8, 2013 at 11:09 am

With the rocket stoves it is said, that the exhaust can be horizontaly, through the outer wall, so
no vertical chimney is needed.
The low exhaust temperatures of 100+ Fahrenheit would, to my knowledge, not produce any
upward draw in the chimney anyway.
Since the dragon heater exhaust temperatures from the second bell are also low and the
rocket also produces a pushing power to the exhaust gases, is there a vertical chimney
needed at all?
Building a vertical exhaust increases the costs immensly if there is none already.
The natural gas- and oil-burners with the very low exhaust temperatures work only in a over-
the-roof-system with a fan pulling/pushing the exhaust gases out.
 Thank you for your efforts,
Jo

SMathieu says:

October 6, 2013 at 10:02 pm

We recommend a chimney. Even with rocket heaters the notion of no chimney often does
not work and people have bad smoke back. We ran it just fine at the Mother Earth News
fair with only a 4ft chimney in the rain, so it might work, but you may have more tendency
to smoke back from outside conditions.

3. Eric says:

April 24, 2014 at 10:19 am

Any chance of seeing a 6″ batchbox in the bell system, instead of the J tube? Great lookin’
products, Peter Van den Berg really dialed it in!
Thanks for your response,
Eric

SMathieu says:

April 26, 2014 at 3:13 pm

The Batchbox in the 3 various iterations we tried were not stable enough to want to resell
them. They need more work. We will get back to them later, but for now it is on the back
burner.

4. hermes?? says:

June 25, 2014 at 6:19 am

Awesome info Thanks a lot!

5. Douglas Smith says:

October 7, 2014 at 12:58 pm

I generally like the design and presentation, but this sentence seems totally bogus:

“Improved performance during prolonged firing

In a flue approach, the longer the stove is run the hotter the flue walls become, decreasing
their ability to absorb heat. However, a second chamber (or bell) will always be cooler (than
the first one) and thus allow better heat extraction.”

Sooo, then the walls of the bell do *not* heat up, decreasing their ability to absorb heat? In
any case, in a flue, the pipes nearest will combustion will up first, and the flue farthest will still
be cool, and able to absorb more heat. The goal would be to burn until the flue farthest from
the combustion has reached it’s optimal heat storage capacity.

SMathieu says:
 October 7, 2014 at 4:08 pm

While the flue approach does have heating differentials between the beginning and end,
the extra friction introduced from very long runs make it more problematic to provide for
more heat storage. There is minimal drag introduced with additional bells compared to an
extra 20-40 ft of flues. This problem of heat capture vs. increased drag has been a great
challenge in designing traditional masonry heaters. Bells allow for easy additional heat
storage, because they do not introduce significant additional friction.

6. alex says:

October 27, 2014 at 3:55 pm

Hi! I am interested in the concept of ISA and its variations especially for materials such as
metal and masonry could expand the concept or recommend literature or web sites?

SMathieu says:

October 28, 2014 at 8:40 am

The best starting point is the blogs on the physical properties of insulating vs thermal
mass materials. From there you can do so rough calculations based on how much heat
you want to store. This website http://donkey32.proboards.com/ does some on going
discussion of the whole topic. But frankly it depends on so many different factors that
rules of thumb even are hard. You kind of just have to build it, log it and see where you
are. Unfortuanately, no many people log their results and post the data into the clear.

alex says:

November 18, 2014 at 2:00 pm

gracias mathieu!!

7. Dennis says:

February 19, 2015 at 8:24 pm

I like your explanation of the bells, but in a flue system encapsulated in a thermal mass, heat
is transferred into the space many hours after the burn. So even if a bell is more efficient
wouldn’t the heat disapate quicker than a flue setup? Can a thermal mass be built around a
bell system? Regards

SMathieu says:

February 20, 2015 at 5:42 pm

Our designs incorporate thermal mass into the bell(s). Bell is probably a misnomer
because it has nothing to do with metal or making a noise. Bells in this context are
chambers which allow the gases to stratify. In a flue setup, all the gases move together.
That is the only difference.
How fast the heat dissipates under specific environmental conditions depends on the
arrangement and material characteristics of the thermal mass. The conductive refractory
material used to make dense fireclay bricks holds more heat and is more conductive than
the clay used in cob. Soapstone is even better than fireclay bricks.
 We have a chart about this elsewhere on this blog.

8. MKrepel says:

March 23, 2015 at 10:36 am

Do you have any examples of people using your cores in flue-type rocket mass heaters? I saw
a comment on another site that, while your core is very nice and convenient, this person had
found that secondary air in the burn chamber tends to cause backdrafting (smoke coming out
of the wood feed). I can see where the lower pressure requirements of a bell system might not
be so finicky in this respect. I am very interested in your core and barrel build accessories, but
I want to put the thermal mass under the floor in an existing, above-ground, structure. This
means that the whole mass will be lower than the burn chamber. I have seen where folks have
successfully done this with custom-built RMH’s, but was wondering if you are aware of any
installations like this using your cores?

SMathieu says:

September 19, 2017 at 8:44 am

Putting the thermal mass below the burn chamber results in poor drafting. We tried it. You
can look at our design under 6″ Dragon Heater Bell Design – Build (parts 1, 2, & 3).

>> this person had found that secondary air in the burn chamber tends to cause
backdrafting (smoke coming out of the wood feed).

This is the result of “this person” not following the design instructions which come with
the unit. They have constrained the flow in some way.

9. Susan says:

August 24, 2015 at 3:00 pm

Do you have any examples of a system using your cores with water as thermal mass? I cannot
put a cob bench in my building, too much weight.

SMathieu says:

August 24, 2015 at 4:24 pm

We have not worked out the details of using a Dragon Heater to heat water. We did some
exploration using an 8″ combustion system, but did not finish working it out.

10. Roger Jones says:

October 26, 2015 at 11:01 am

Planning a self-build timber frame house and just starting research on inclusion of some type
of masonry heater. Seems your concept offers some alternatives and perhaps cost savings
over other designs. Anxious to learn more, especially for use in a two story “classic” timber
frame.
 SMathieu says:

October 27, 2015 at 9:20 am

Thank you for your inquiry. I have sent you a document which explains the castle build.

11. Bill Bell says:

November 26, 2015 at 8:38 pm

What kind of burn time can we get. How often must it be fed to maximize the heat storage.
Are we looking at only using the radiant mode of harvesting the heat, or might there be an
active method. I had a Solar heating system that used Wash River rock as a storage medium,
It used air as a way of moving the heat in/ and then out as needed from the rocks. Possibly
with the flu system, and the wash river rock around the exhaust tube.
Probably would need a much larger volume of rock than the Bell chamber method.

SMathieu says:

December 1, 2015 at 10:32 am

Burn time increases with the size of the burn tunnel. The 4″ is about 10 min. The 8″, 30-
40. What do you mean by an active method of harvesting the heat? All our tested designs
are on the website. They incorporate dense refractory in the form of fireclay bricks to store
the heat in the bell chamber and release it when the fire is out. These designs work as we
have reported them on this blog.
If you can find the data on wash river rock, you can see where it fits on the thermal
storage chart. Then, you will know how much you need.
If you want a document on building the castle build, use the contact us form on the
dragonheaters.com website.
Thank you for your interest.

Bill Bell says:

December 6, 2015 at 10:35 pm

By active I was referring to adding a fan that would strip off the heat from the outside
and allowing more heat to be absorbed. Possible being able to move the heat to remote
parts of the home. A simple box fan blowing on the outside would be an active method
and low tec way of accomplishing this too. The idea of the wash river rock if a method
of storing and retrieving heat using forced air rather than having to deal with the
problems of using water as a medium of storage. there are trade offs both ways I’m
sure. It does require a lot more room (volume ) of rocks than water. But if you are
building new, putting a storage area under the house would be doable. Just need an
insulated box! a Large insulated box.

12. Steve Rollert says:

November 27, 2015 at 9:59 am

I have bought the chimney tiles required to build the castle masonry heater and just need to
cast the caps and base . Thinking about casting the base (floor plate as one piece on our
concrete floor. My question is : have you folks tried running a copper coil in the second tower
 to use in heating water ? Would it lower the temp of the exhaust to a point that it may not
draw ? Would varying the length ie. making a shorter run of copper tubing eliminate any
problem ? I desire to use this water to use for domestic use or augmenting our in floor
heating. I think your design is really well thought out, is further experimentation on going ? I
notice that updates in designs are rather few. Sorry that sounded like a criticism, but that is
not how it is intended. Just very excited about the potential of your design.

SMathieu says:

December 1, 2015 at 10:33 am

Further experimentation on water heaters, etc. is not ongoing.

13. Dave says:

March 13, 2016 at 2:33 pm

According to what I’ve read about traditional masonry heaters, because they use an outer
stone or brick envelope the surface temperature only reaches about 150 degrees & slows
down the release of heat into the surrounding area so that they only need a burn as seldom as
every 12 to 48 hours and making them safe for people to touch. How do your units compare in
this regard?

SMathieu says:

March 14, 2016 at 1:54 pm

Dragon Heater castle builds operate on the same principle of storing the heat in the
masonry material and the fact that the exterior of the build stays relatively cool. The rest
of the results are a matter of BTU’s. How many BTU’s worth of wood are consumed by the
fire and stored in the masonry material? How many BTU’s does the masonry material
radiate into the space of your dwelling? The answer to the last question depends on
factors such as the weather outside and the details about your house. The burn chamber
of a Dragon Heater does a better job of extracting the BTU’s from the wood you are
burning than a traditional masonry heater. Usually, traditional masonry heaters have very
thick walls which must be heated up. The thicker walls would make it both longer to feel
the heat when you start burning wood and longer for all that material to cool down.

We recommend that the Castle Build be built with fireclay splits which are only 1-1/2″
thick. This approach reuslts in a less expensive unit which has to have loads of wood
more often than a traditional masonry heater.

14. edit-it.org says:

November 19, 2016 at 2:40 pm

Each of these methods of transmission and heat of the preservation is effective in its own way.
The detailed instructions will help to understand the principles of their work.

15. MarkD says:

August 30, 2017 at 8:24 pm

Like your reasoning!

 If flue gas temperatures are reduced (extracting heat better) is there an increased creosote
build-up?….or chimney fire danger?
Or is the efficiency of the initial burn chamber enough to make that a non-issue?

SMathieu says:

September 19, 2017 at 8:28 am

Creosote and other build-ups in the chimney come from the initial combustion releasing
volatiles from the wood and then the fire not being hot enough to consume those volatiles.
In Peter van den Berg’s design, the heat riser is a second burn chamber where the
volatiles are consumed. So, creosote is not a danger even if you wanted to burn woods
with a lot of sap.

16. Richard Glaves says:

January 1, 2018 at 11:57 am

I’ve been researching heaters for some time now and have an idea of how to store more heat
for a longer time.
Thought I’d run this past you for comment. The fire box is on the bottom, front fed, which exits
in the rear into the first horizontal chamber. That chamber has a wall built in the front which
will allow the gases to escape from the bottom into a flue which exits into another like
chamber exiting from the rear into a third which will exit from the bottom to the outside. It
seems to me that after the fire has burned out, the heat will emminate to the top of the mass
and heat longer with less fuel required in the long run. I am concerned about the draft. Will 3
box chambers be to much? Will the gases be to cooled off in the top chamber to make it
draw? I’m thinking not as the heat should rise from the first chamber roof to the floor of the
2nd chamber to the roof etc. etc. Also should a damper be placed in the chimney to shut off
warm air exhaust after fire is extinguished? This particular project will be heating a 120sqft
shop with leather and steel products inside. A 4″ firebox? Thank you for any input which can
help me on my way. It’s currently 28 degrees outside and I think I’d better get started on
something.

SMathieu says:

June 20, 2018 at 11:42 pm

If you want more information about our Castle Build design, please go to the
dragonheaters.com website and submit a contact us form. We have a long document we
can send.

17. Pam says:

June 20, 2018 at 7:52 pm

Tried to sign up for newsletter was told something or other wasn’t set up to sign up people. I
am trying to figure out a ell system and definitely need more information! I have art of a bell
system blog? Done anumbe of years ago but part of some crucial information on now missing
pages.

SMathieu says:
June 20, 2018 at 11:44 pm

We have more details on our Castle Build system available. Go to our main website:
http://www.dragonheaters.com and submit a Contact Us form. I will send the PDF to you
via email.