Netscape Documentary

Tape 113 _1

talk about ..

spoke with thats formation There

This you ask because company
is that this in
interesting just just

are three of them And they rented large apartment and they sort of live there mean its not like they

have have and futons on the each have

bags on the
real lives floor floor
They sleeping they

bedroom and the lMng room is there workplace and has all these computers And theyre thinking of

hiting somebody else and having him move in Its like and was talking with them with colleague

of mine who said well arent you ever going to let people go home Its nice to let them go home Arid

they thought no it was good for the eady cohesion of the

company if
everyone just lived together And

why is this happening Um few reasons Part of it is this whole software start-up thing is dominated

byratheryoungmen.Theydonthavethekindoftiesyetthat-youknowtheydonthavepeopletogo

3O
home to chikiren So theyre can live this total work life This man knew said so and so has

gidhiendproum-lmeihehasone.Meaingthatthiswasdetracflngfromhisabitytoconcentrateon

his tAndsopartofftjustthestageoflifethatthlskindomassofyoungmenlsgoingthroughand

you know
an ethos thats su its cool its cool now to work all the
just

e.ltscooltohaveyourowncompany ltscooltolhhaveastartu an rich before

30 old And so theres arouid1t Coupled with the

youre you know years all this supporting kleology

fact that lets face it families are just wreck You know we don live near our families ymore

couples divorce every one is scattered In way technology has tiled to ameleorate thŁfact that were

all scattered You know you have long distance phone call to your mother once or twice week

And as it
gets cheapoer maybe three times week And In aiy that does kind othpieleorate the

sense of dist But of cosse it

only then enables you live even hither and to have and

and and connections be even more far flown So there the in

cenff our
is
colleagues family

Page
Netscape Documentary
Tape 113

personal lives at the same time that all we have left to hold on to really is the work place.lmean it is

the one place where you can go its like the modem village Its the last place we know where if
yoti

show up every day people have to take you in unless youre very very
bad You know people get to

know your history They shrug at your bad jokes you know what mean Theres kind of familiarity

that and continuity that we dont have elsewhere think Dials why its so threatening All this

downsizing and outsourcing all

becoming consultants because that is
really the last place for this kind of

socio So don know if that answers your questions

People talked to yesterday there were quite likable people..

No diminished in relation to what You know do they read novels no Do they speak French no Do

they think about history no Do they read widely no lot of the people know in the business they

brag
that
they read the economist once week and thats ft Thals all
they need to know Cause it has

global perspective of business and cultural events boom theyve got it Cr they only tale their

informationonthewebsooneandsoon.Sotomethatsadiminishedebutyouknowalotof
Al

people doni read novels or worry about history or practice thefr French And so guess you get to

choose your own Me The thing ils

easy to forget
when you look at people during that what you aid

adrenalized period before code release cause lets face it

ifs exciting It is youre kind of have this 46
sense of living right in time You know in this very suspended exciting moment And that is wonderM

lmeanwhodoesn1wantthatinthefrwodclffe.lsthat-theydayafterthisshjffgosoutyoure

get let
up mean there is then the sort of day in day out month in month out got to work turn on the

computer code Compile Compile one more compile one more compile well LII
just little
more one

more compile before go home Next thing you know its 900 you go home youre blitzed wake up

bfrS

Page
Netscape Documentary
Tar4z jt

here the entire framework that was cre for me in few simple steps to
Here it is
creata

bit of code tha defi the behaviirs for the

Micro ft Windows lica on camera direcio

ra di
aflcn ut it re does itsort of ates applicalion Ca lion..
appli it
says ly

andlw ttoshow uhoweayitisto

OK inew tljustwantto now Ill owyouthec

what about camer irec

bui it then boom It runs thats past
of tal

code code this goes on and on and on arid on So youre not always in that
Code compiling...and

lime when the is

very in touch with one another and like Hey what are you woildng on
exciting group

more work of
and is that fixed and you utpenple kind of go back to day experience
knoi

and in books because its like watching grass

which you dont see represented in films
programming

know what happened me

go Im to
And nqt sure what happens
tg wale prngrarprtrc working

after several years

of lMng that life Really began to feel where did the lime go Have talked to

where did not talk to for days on end unless you

mean there were periods literally anyone
anybody

made see friends which didnt very

much
know made phone call or something or appointments to

what was doing And so had this cat had this cat anywa
because was so kind of engaged in

in this piece of software and coming

mean had this experience of being really really engaged creaUng

and kind of crazy

in day and just opening three four code windows you know just doing that
every

mind where going nice and

multi-tasking that you can
do on computer um strange
state youre just

feels nice And and then

its engaging
fast and it doesnt feel fast you know everything just very

from the
you get something
you know
into
before it its oclock youre hungry if youre really it

and 11 show up the next day at noon you know Begin to

machine you know stay till
vending

ou nd myseU time sh ifting out of reg ularworichours because there really isn tanyneces

Page
Netscape Documentary

Tape3 jyt5

release You sync up with other people So

to code
unless you have to go to meeting or your close

theres no doubt about it became

to kind of float around in time And became strange
just began

pretty strange And after few years of that wondered is this such good icIea I-I

iiy more

am to do this
years going

Do you thinks its like any other professional apprenticeship

other doctor you know You have to go through this

Yes of course its like professions like being

that
But with programming as long as you stayaprogrammer
very intense apprenticeship period

You know arent You become manager or

dqspend there really any old programmers

oroarammer long oeriods.of hme

consultant hke me or you have its very heard to remain for

and and
ends you have
this again
Because never Technically
to keep doing again
your apprenticeship

new Its as
you team youre
if

Ih7 and its not like being doctor where incrementally things

asinn because- hey it know for aspirin

octgfrand-new-youtanhtpru cri anymore old1y

And so you have to leam whole new set ot things that

you can now
not cool
you know anymore
its

schbe to people Now to some extent that true but. .in programming your history kind of erases

behind you as you go And its little disconcerting camera direction Anyway so thats one aspect of

278

about doctor can talk to can certainly have

you can talk to other people it colleagues lawyer

ilmost anybody itsre talk about

iii If
youre programnier yhardto

whiu do in
any great detail Even explaining it to your colleague they dont really they

understand in only
the broadest measure what youre doing mean we call it being programming

and uh huh because the

someone else and go uh huh uh huh
in
You there
dummy talk to they sit

dont know what the

problem oh thanks They
it
course of describing your yeah great you got really

Page
Netscape Documentary
Tapefl4 _2
hell youre about But so there is kind of way in which youre locked up with you own
talking

when youre programming And the only representation of what you know is the code and
knowledge

which alone with this

no one can keep all that in mind at once And so theres sense in youre really

in dare use the word existentiway You cant really talk about it And think thats the sense of

of technical feel That this is not communicative Its not that

isolation that lot of partners people person

talk about this work

theyre not communicative or wouldnt want to be think But that its very hard to

jYoq
in

Is this one of the ways that what you know is never enough

know whos above certain this worries about loosing their skills
Well everyone age in
profession

And mean above certain age Ill

say you know 35 mean about the time you start to have life

that is
you dont think its great to sleep on futon on the floor of
your
office anymore You start to have

and attend
go to Or you know children like to raise their
dinner parties youd like to give or yot/d

school things
like that You start to
worry how can possibly keep up So don see this

The hazard in this is that remains persons profession The hazardJttbat

all is it
young

is that small set of people is

really defining what our worlds gonna be like mean youjpow
tlfei

the computer becoming ubiquitous and the way we interact with the world more and more mediated

the it worries me that this small of people who are you know in their
through computer very group

you know
what that worlds gonna be Ok Because do the nature of
early 20s is
defining think that

the whole programming environment spreads out what the techniral a-from-the-technology and

And am little concern about the imbalaice in the

source of all of this and the rest of the world And dont have any solutions The only solution may be

that like web for can be put up by non-technical now That there are more
things sites instance people

Page
Netscape Documentary
Tape11 //I

and more tools that enable people who are much less specialized and much less dedicated you know

thoroughly to life with computer to create things on the computer And that may hope dilute the

effect of this sort of little priesthood thats

defining
this wo4d 7-1

have to ask you think because youre one of the only woman in this program..

Its the same theres

nothing unique in programming The more you get into it
being engineering the

fewer women You know there are lot of primary care physicians
who are women as you get Into

surgery especially you know the kind where they drill into your bones the women start to disappear

The masons aie mean has do with certain amount of SOCialiZatiOn

for that complicated ft definitely to

dont think girls are taught to take things apart don know how Aldld grew up with next door

who was handy we him take

neighbor as like to
say and loved following him around and watching

things Unfortunately he wasnt good at getting them back together agaln but you know
apart very

learned that was the hazaM of ft too It wasnt easy But dont know the reason for that mean its one

olthosethingsthatsoverdetemiinedandcimular.Youknowwomenarenotencouragedtogointolt

when they get there they feel kind of alone Everyone asks them how does it feel to be woman

progranmer which is damned annoying you know

and so youre kind of thrown even more apart

mean youre in profession where youre kind of apart and then youre apart within your own

profession lrsnotverycomfodable-notthatcomfodisthegreatestthknghilifeOK-butftdoesmakeit

bit hairier Ifs another bumed on your work life And didnt stay
in ft In that level mean was in

situation where was new developer What every programmer wants to be Spent five aawoddng

on brand new systems htm blank screens with no users at all you know just designing and coding

--

.--

my vegetthles wrong here the plum spot And just felt um well you know nteam life to be

Page
Netscape Doc9mentary
Tape t4F

have it there And urn dont know thats because Im woman or

jnocaiexttiiethanicould

women know often

you know
feel
because like to read books about other things and But the other

bit like foreigners in their own work place Just bit though Theyre like you know these are huge

generalizations mean also work with woman who is in my team who gee she was more geeky

she bragged she hated of and her house had not

that the guys mean really that decoration all sort that

picture on the wall and it was true not single one so. .camera direction

Theres seems also to be the archetypat..

Theres part in the book that dkint male it in but urn used to work with woman who was
money_...

Hambiecht
manager And we had kind of work relations on lot of levels Arid Id go with her to

Quist conferences and always felt like was going to species

of modem tent revival meeting in that

be wonderful And felt sort of gloomy and

there was this sense of everything is going to always vety

and me There
apart and what am doing here feeling pessimistic and dont know this scares little

was this sense of excitement about new about hats wonderful and this sense of waiting
really things

to discover new things And dont think its only money think that the people involved in venture

capital are you know they really do want to discover the next Microsoft mean not just for the

moneyithinkitstheegotooandjustthesensethatyouunearthedthisthing.ButthesensethattheY

this proceeds kind of without ever asking but is this good Idea that always makes me
way that

uneasy But thats not their job You know their not philosophers theyre venture capitalists We just

need to have sort of philosopher venture capital somewhere who occasionally steps in and says

make money woitis of Richat Nixon we could do

yes you could
well doing that but in the Immortal

it but it would be wrong you know dont hear lot of that going on although wouldnt put too much

to it because lot of what happens fri venture capital is very much heid mentabty mean right now if

Page
Netscape Documentary
Tape

which have somehow

youre doing something on the Internet one and two involving e-mail people

say those two words in

decided is the next new application thing you only need to describing your

and boom Youre to million dollars if

youre halfway credible And us herd
product going get

like of Wall Street stuff mean tend to follow hot trends and so. .lm rambling..
procession lot people

Do you thInk well look back on this era as some sort of wild speculative boom

haventthefaintestideathoutthefuture lmeantheonlythlnglstorernemberthatnOtsOmaflyyears

from your
ago interactive TV was the future Everyone was sure that you were going to order pizza

TV You were going to oitler

up movie And huge amount of money went pouring Into companies that

seemed to have to do with this Then they did some technical trials And it turned out
anything remotely

that liked but not enough to spend lot of money on it And ft seemed just as easy to you
people it

know call up the pizza place and have them deliver it as uh go through your TV And urn dont

know mean sure the intemet is important and it will

only grow But always remind myself that half

the people on the planet have never even head telephone dial tone That the problems that they face

have to do with the intemet They will

certalnly be involved in it someone know just told me
nothing

thattheirsoftwareisbelngusedinthecfilcflnAmthasoftshowsyouhowthirlgszOomaloufldthe

world very and have real not the internet and the real
quickly they their effect but the problem is

solution is not the internet The real problem is these desperately poor countries without governmental

and and the world while

structures social structures In tact you know half being in desperate straits

we sit here in California in

womb and that to me is more question for the future than dl the internet

beb

room tone

Page