Baja SAE Technical Questions

Technical questions about the Baja SAE rules must be submitted to: bajarules@sae.org
Submitted Questions must include your name, university, phone number, rule number in
question and the Baja SAE event your team is planning to enter. If you do not put this information,
your question will not be answered and you will not see a reply.

The following are all the questions answered between 3/1/2009 and 3/31/2009 by Baja Rules for the
2009 Baja Season.

SECTION 31: ROLL CAGE

Question: I am writing to gain a better understanding of rule 31.1 #1. It states that, "The driver’s
helmet to be 15.24 cm (6 in) away from the straightedge applied to any two points on the cockpit of
the car, excluding the driver’s seat and the rear driver safety supports." Does this mean that the
driver's helmet must be 6 inches away from any plane created by the straightedge or simply 6 inches
away from the roll cage members?
Answer: It must be 6" away from the straightedge. Any line in space that you could create by
placing a straightedge against the outside of the roll cage must be at least 6" from the helmet.
Additionally, rule 31.4.1 specifies that "a minimum of 15.2 cm (6 inches) vertical clearance must be
provided from the helmet top of the team’s tallest driver to the bottom of the roll cage top tubes or
members" so in this case the measurement is to the bottom of the RHO members.

Question: We are bringing 2 cars to competition this year. Both cars’ roll cage have been welded by
the same welder and machine. Do we need to supply weld samples for each car or can the same
samples (T and 15deg.) be used for both cars?
Answer: One set of weld samples cannot be used for more than one car.

Question: Rule # 31.3: If high back seats are used, can the head restraint be attached to the seat
itself?
Answer: As long as it is securely mounted to the seat, it is fine.

Question: In reference to rule 31.1 which states: "The driver’s torso, knees, shoulders, elbows,
hands, and arms must have a minimum of 7.62 cm (3 in) of clearance from the envelope created by
the structure of the car. (This is tested by applying a straight-edge between any two points on the
outside edges of the SIM and RHO, less the roll cage padding.)" Is this 3" measured to the driver
with their hands in their lap, or hands up on the steering wheel in the driving position?
Answer: The 3" clearance is measured with the largest driver seated with hands on the wheel as you
would be while driving. The purpose of the 3" clearance rule is to be sure that the first "hard stop"
during a rollover is the roll cage and not part of your body which would be crushed.

SECTION 33: DRIVER RESTRAINT

Question: I was wondering if there is a rule for how wide the anti submarine belt has to be?
Answer: We will be allowing 2" and 3" wide anti submarine belts, provided their mounting satisfies
the current rules.
SECTION 51.2: COST EVENT

Question: If we are unsure of our body panels per say, should we fill in something or leave it blank
and do the cost adjustment form for either case?
Answer: Put an estimate in for body panels now. Then, once you have a better idea of what you are
doing, if your estimate is off, fill out a Cost Adjustment sheet and turn it in at Registration.

Question: In the rules regarding the penalty for late or non-submission of the cost report (51.2.5), it
says "Cost reports arriving after the deadline will be penalized ten (10) points per day up to a
maximum of one hundred (100) points. Failure to submit a cost report will result in zero (0) points
for the event." Does the term "event" there refer to the cost event or the entire competition?
Answer: If you do not submit a cost report, you will get zero points for ONLY the cost portion of the
competition. You can still receive points in all other categories.

SECTION 52.5: ENDURANCE

Question: Would our driver be able to have a camelback hydration system with water in the car with
him for the endurance race?
Answer: Not a problem, you can have a camelback hydration system.
 The following are all the questions answered by 2/28/2009 by Baja Rules for the
2009 Baja Season.

SECTION 13: ELIGIBILITY – VEHICLES

Question: We had planned to use some parts from a Yamaha atv, are we allowed to use these parts
or are we restricted to Polaris since they are a sponsor.
Answer: You can use parts manufactured by any company that you want.

Question: We have a question with the following rule: "Each team is expected to have a Faculty
Advisor appointed by the university. The faculty advisor is expected to accompany the team to the
competition and will be considered by competition officials to be the official university
representative." When you say that the team is EXPECTED, do you mean that it is MANDATORY
to have the company of the faculty advisor?
Answer: It is not necessary for a faculty advisor from your school to be on-site…we recommend it
only. If no faculty advisor travels with the team than someone from the team will need to act as your
faculty advisor.

SECTION 21: REQUIRED ENGINE

Question: Question regarding the air filter placement and the rules pertaining to section 21.4.10-Air
Cleaner. The rule says the use of an additional pre-filter to the top of the air intake is permissible. Is a
passive air cooler permissible within the interpretation of a pre-filter.
Answer: The only thing we allow are standard filters mounted to the end of the remote air intake
hose, so I would say no a cooler is not ok.

Question: The rule 21.4.18 ending with the statement "Hybrid electric power systems are
specifically prohibited." is slightly unclear to me since the definition a hybrid electric power system
varies from source to source. Does this rule prohibit a generator/electric motor based drive train or
just the use of batteries to store energy? Can the specific components or design concepts eliminated
by this statement be clarified further?
Answer: You cannot have batteries with stored energy. You cannot have a generator/electric motor.

Question: What is the technical difference between the engine models and types listed in section
21.4 "Engine Requirements and Restrictions"? They come listed as follows, 205432 0036-E1;
205432 0036-E9; 205432 0536-E9; 205332 0536-E9; 205332 0536-B1. Are there any characteristics
we should know about? Do they have variations that should be taken into account?
Answer: They are basically all the same....just different versions available in different countries.

Question: In Section-2, subsection-21 Engine Requirements, it does not mention not being able to
use two engines in unison. Can we use two engines in unison to drive the car as long as they are the
required Model and Type, or am I overlooking a rule?
Answer: You can only use one engine......no rule exactly says one engine but it is understood in
principal that each team will use only one engine.

Question: I'd like to know if we can use the engine Model: 205 332 Type: 1164. It's the same engine
as those are in the rules but the length of the engine shaft changes.
Answer: This engine would not pass the technical inspection at the event.
Question: We were wondering if it were legal to drill another hole through the bottom of the engine
for a new engine mount hole? It would be going through the same thickness, just shifted slightly to fit
our new engine mounting system.
Answer: You can drill one additional hole in your engine base for mounting, but if your engine is to
have some failure from this mounting Briggs might not support you with a new engine.

Question: We purchased a new Model Intek I/C 1450 Briggs and Stratton engine this year. There
have been some concerns about this engine and having to change the muffler. At Illinois last year we
watched a neighboring team perform an engine change and were forced to swap mufflers between
their Intek Model 20 and the 1450. Is this required?
Answer: There is no need for a muffler change. Neither muffler has a performance advantage over
the other. All engines should use their respective originally equipped muffler.

Question: Our motor is a few years old and one problem with it is the muffler has some rust on it.
Do we have to replace it or can we paint or high temp coat it? Also I assume that it is not allowed to
do any high temp coatings on the pistons or Teflon coatings on the sidewalls. Is this correct?
Answer: You can replace the muffler or not, you can paint the outside or coat the outside of it. You
are not allowed to coat anything on the inside of the motor (ex. pistons and sidewalls).

Question: 21.4.17 Electronic Controls: “Electronic control of suspension and transmission systems is
allowed. All power must come from the engine itself. The power can come from an approved battery
(21.4.15) if the battery is being charged by a Briggs alternator.” Does this mean that the battery HAS
TO be charged by the alternator, if we use electronic shift?
Answer: Yes, you do need to charge the battery that you are using to run your electronic shift, so if
you have selected a battery that cannot be charged by the Briggs alternator then you will need to
select a different battery.

SECTION 23: TOWING HITCH POINT

Question: Rule # 23.1 Front Hitch Point: In the rules it states that the front hitch point can be either a
1 inch tubular design or a hitch plate. In previous years at the competition during inspection they
made the team extend their vehicles front bumper laterally to protect their control arms. Are there
specifications as to how wide the front bumper has to extend to protect the control arms and steering
tie rods?
Answer: The requirement to protect control arms and steering arms has been removed from the
rules.

SECTION 25: TRANSPONDERS

Question: In regards to rule 25.3 Transponder Mounting, we currently have the required AMB
transponder for the competition, but the mounting clip that came with it was damaged in a previous
competition and is now unusable. Is it acceptable for us to manufacture a new clip with the same
mounting features, or do we need to purchase a new transponder simply to obtain a new clip?
Answer: You must use the bracket that came with the transponder. While the replacement clip is not
available for online ordering, you can purchase it for $7 + $15 shipping by calling the manufacturer
and placing the order over the phone: 678 816 4000. Just hit "0" at the start of the message to speak
with a sales person. The part number for the replacement clip is: 40R010.

SECTION 31: ROLL CAGE

Question: Section 31.2.8 (FAB) says that 'a bent tube cannot exceed 32 inches between attachment
points.' Is that ONLY for the FAB, or is that for all bars?
Answer: Rules 31.2.8 only applies to the FAB members.

Question: Can the Front Bracing Members be curved (bent) from point C to the SIM or behind
points SF. We know they have to be less than 45degrees with the vertical. Would this imply that the
FBMs have to be straight tubes since we can't really calculate the angle between a curved tube and
the vertical?
Answer: The FBM doesn't necessarily have to be a straight tube. Rule 31.2.7 states that the FMB
should "extend downward and forward" so we would expect your RHO to follow this general path in
that direction. For the angle, calculate it assuming a straight line from the beginning and end of the
RHO based on your design.

Question: I have a question about the new requirement to submit welding samples for Baja SAE.
The requirements for the first sample state that the method of performing the destructive test be left
up to the discretion of the team. An excerpt from the text states: "This joint should be subject to
destructive testing causing the joint to fail to which indicates superior weld strength with respect to
the base material." What is considered joint failure? Do we have to load the entire sample until the
weld completely breaks, or will the severe yielding of the parent metal of the tubes be enough to
show weld integrity if the weld is still intact? Generating the force to cause complete joint separation
could be a considerable issue. I would appreciate any clarification you could provide.
Answer: Severe yielding of the parent material will not be enough to demonstrate weld integrity.
The joint must be subjected to enough stress to cause separation. Some teams have applied
substantial force with the use of a large vice and a long moment arm.

Question: I have a question about the welded joint test. Do we have to reach the value of the 1018
steel for the joint? Do you have another value?
Answer: The destructive weld test does not have a critical value. The destructive test does require
that the weld demonstrate superior strength with respect to the base material. Please refer to
http://students.sae.org/competitions/bajasae/rules/welding.pdf for more details.

Question: We can’t meet any tube with an outside diameter of 1 inch, they have an outside diameter
of 25 mm. Our supplier sells tubes with an outside diameter of 25mm or 28 mm (which is more
expensive and heavier) but not in between. So, is it possible to be an exception because of the
difference (0,4mm), and can we use an outside diameter of 25 mm?
Answer: You CAN use 25mm x 3.05mm tubing for section A of rule 31.5. You may also use this
tubing size to meet 31.2.1, this is a misprint in the rules where it should state 25mm but it says
25.4mm (pg19). HOWEVER, the calculations for equivalency (section B of rule 31.5) must be done
using an EI and Sy/I with a minimum of 25.4 mm diameter.

Question: We have a Rules Questions about 31.2.6. In the rule, 'SIM(side impact members) shall
join the RRH at points S and extend horizontally to points SF.......' In this sentence, what does
'horizontally' mean? Does it mean the SIM parallels the ground or that just the SIM is straight?
Answer: Your SIM only needs to be "generally" parallel to the ground. It may bend or go up and
down as long as it remains between 8" and 14" above the seat bottom as stated in rule 31.2.6.

Question: Our team was wondering if we could mill down our second welding sample as opposed to
using a bandsaw?
Answer: Milling down the tube would be fine.

Question: Regarding 31.2.3, how is the 5" measured by the judges during inspection at the
competition?
Answer: The note in rule 31.2.1 states "minimal dimensions are measured from the center line of the
member" and rule 31.2.2 defines the points LC as being on the center line of the upper LC in either
straight or bent tube construction. The 5" will be measured from the center line of the upper LC
vertically to the intersection of the center line of the LBD and RRH tubes.

Question: I was curious if we are required to use Drawn over Mandrel (DOM) tubing for the
construction of our frame. It does not specify in the rules whether or not we are required to use
DOM or if we can use Seam welded.
Answer: You may use any type of steel tubing you would like as long as you can prove that it meets
the requirements of rule 31.5.

Question: The rules state that: "Side impact members shall join the RRH at points S and extend
horizontally to points SF forward of the driver’s toes (See RC4.) The SIM shall be between 20.3 cm
(8 inches) and 35.6 cm (14 inches) (as measured vertically) above the area of the seat in contact with
the driver (See RC3)." Does this mean that the SIM has to remain at least 8" above the seat all of the
way to the very most front of the car? Also is 1020 steel 1"OD .120" wall thickness preferred over
1018 steel of the same dimensions for the roll hoop requirements?
Answer: The SIM does have to remain between 8" & 14" above the area of the seat in contact with
the driver over its entire length. There is no preferred tubing type or size as long as you provide
documentation and show calculations to prove that it meets the requirements specified under rule
31.5, it will pass.

Question: Is it alright to submit two sets of samples for each welder of the roll cage? One set would
be for the TIG process and the other for the MIG. We use both in the construction of our vehicles.
Answer: If your team employs more than one method on the roll cage then your team will need to
submit samples for each process. If more than one team member welds the roll cage than each team
member will need to submit samples. If each process employed is performed by more than one team
member then each team member will need to provide samples for each of the methods the performed.

Question: 31.2.2 Rear Roll Hoop (RRH) Do the two LC tubes have to be the same length? 31.2.5
Lower Frame Side Members (LFS) Do the LFS have to be perpendicular to the rear roll hoop or can
it extend on an angle smaller than 90 degrees relative to the line created by A left and A right.
Answer: 1. As long as you meet all of the driver clearance requirements and other dimensional
constraints, there is no reason the LC tubes have to be the same length. 2. Again, as long as you meet
the driver clearance requirements and requirements for the LFS members, this angle does not have to
be perpendicular. Note that the RRH must be +/- 20 degrees from vertical.

Question: The tube from our frame was sponsored and that is why we don't have any invoice or
receipt. Do we need one for the tech inspection?
Answer: You need to have documentation so we can confirm that they type of steel you are using in
your roll cage meets the minimum requirements. If the tubing was donated you may have whoever
donated the material write you a letter identifying what they gave you; please make sure the name of
their company is clearly identified on the letterhead or within the letter somewhere.

Question: Is there going to be any destructive test to any part of the car, for the new "weld
confirmation check"?
Answer: The weld confirmation check does not include any destructive testing to your car; it only
includes the two samples which you will provide. This is explained in the rules located on the SAE
website.

Question: 31.5 Roll Cage & Bracing Materials: If we ordered 1" OD and .120" WT material and
due to manufacturing variances it is slightly undersized (but still within manufacturing specs), will
the material still be acceptable?
Answer: It’s fine; just make sure you bring the invoice.

Question: My question is in regards to the section 31.1 of the rules, specifically "The driver’s torso,
knees, shoulders, elbows, hands, and arms must have a minimum of 7.62 cm (3 in) of clearance from
the envelope created by the structure of the car." Must this be maintained at all times, such as during
dynamic events? Or does the driver only have to demonstrate that this is possible during the static
inspection? My specific concern is the driver's elbows. When the elbows are "tucked-in" they are
within the rules, but in the course of driving the driver's elbows would probably not be within the
envelope created by frame. Do we need to make the car wider to be in compliance with the rules, so
that the elbows clear the car's envelope by two inches while the driver is driving (and seated in a
natural position)?
Answer: We measure the clearances with one of the drivers (our choice) seated in the car with hand
on the steering wheel and feet on the pedals. Then we place a straightedge on the roll cage wherever
in multiple spots and measure to the driver. We will push your elbows and knees into the car until
they hit something that causes them to stop and measure the clearance from there. The idea is that
we want there to be some wiggle room between your body when it is binding against something (like
the steering wheel or your torso) and the ground or other object if you roll over.

Question: In section 31.2.8 it states that the roll hoop can be braced in the front and/or rear. As I
understand it can be either one or the other, right? So if we had the roll hoop specified according to
the front bracing regulations, and not the back bracing would we still be able to compete?
Answer: You are correct; you do not need both front and rear bracing, its one or the other (you won't
be penalized if you use both but only one is required).

Question: I am a little unsure of the new welding regulations. The rules state that the first sample
needs to be subjected to destructive testing and is supposed to fail. My question is how and where is
the joint supposed to fail? Is it supposed to fail in the weld, around the edge?
Answer: For test 1, the joint is supposed to fail somewhere other than on the weld bead,
demonstrating that the weld bead is not the weakest link in the structure.

Question: The rule book for the competition states that the steel used for the fabrication of the
chassis must have bending stiffness and bending strength at least equal to AISI 1018. You have
mentioned the yield stress of AISI 1018 as 365 MPa (Rule book page number- 24). This yield stress
is for SEAMLESS AISI 1018. For hot rolled AISI 1018 the yield stress is 220 MPa. My query is
whether we can use hot rolled AISI 1018 or we have to use only seamless AISI 1018. Also I would
like to know whether using hot rolled steel is permitted for the competition.
Answer: You may use any type of steel you like as long as you can provide the invoices for it and
documentation to prove that it has equal or greater bending stiffness and strength as the baseline steel
specified in the rules.

Question: I had a question regarding rule 31.2.10 on Butt Joints. The rule says, “A butt joint is
defined as a joint where two tubes come together generally along the same line and are not supported
by a third tube at the node.” Our vehicle has a few miter joints where the tubes do not come together
along the same line, but at a slight angle. Is there a cutoff angle that distinguishes a miter joint from
a butt joint; or do all joints that are not fish mouths require a sleeve or additional reinforcing
member?
Answer: There is no cutoff angle. I understand this rule is a bit subjective; it is really meant to
prevent having a long span with either a butt joint or a miter joint in the middle that is unsupported,
regardless of angle. Depending on the size of tube, angle of the joint, location on frame and
proximity to a node, you may or may not be ok. It is very hard for us to get a good idea of the
integrity of these types of joints and by assuring that they are either sleeved or supported by a third
tube it greatly lessens probability of failure. The joints we will look at closest are the ones where a
failure will likely result in a "chain reaction" that can cause failure in another joint and so on, which
could eventually collapse the entire roll cage.

Question: I have a question regarding the weld checks. Do we need to do destructive testing on
every single material/diameter tubing used on the entire roll cage?
Answer: If all of your roll cage elements, as defined in rule 31.2.1, are fabricated from tubing of the
same material and geometry then you only need to provide 1 set of samples for each welder x process
combination. For example, if your team chooses to fabricate all of the roll cage elements, per rule
31.2.1, out of 1.00” x 0.120” wall 1026 DOM tubing then you will only need to see one set of
samples per welder and process combination. Carrying this example further, if your team had three
welders, all of whom performed role cage welds per rule 31.2.11, using both MIG (GMAW) and TIG
(GTAW) processes then we would need to see six (6) set of samples, one for each welder and process
combination.

Question: I have a few questions on the rear roll hoop. First, can we heat up the metal to bend it?
And if we use four pieces of tubing to create the rear roll hoop, do we need to butt weld all of the
corners or can we notch the corner?
Answer: You may bend the tubes, however you want to just keep in mind what is written in Rule
31.2.12 in the Comment: In all cases, especially bent tube construction, technical inspectors may
require additional bracing if they feel the roll cage does not offer adequate protection. Any tubes
showing cracks and deformation do not comply with the rules. You may butt weld the joints together
as long as there is a third tube at the node to support the joint, see rule 31.2.10 for further
clarification. If you have any doubts, I suggest adding in whatever support structure you deem
necessary.

Question: On page 22 of the SAE Baja Competition Rules pdf it specifies that the SIM should be
between 8 and 14 inches above the seat. Is this measurement taken from the top or bottom side of the
SIM tubing? We have been measuring everything from centerline and want to make sure and stay
within specifications.
Answer: From rule 31.2.1, page 20: NOTE: When minimal dimensions are given that is to the
centerline of the members, and when a clearance for the driver is given, it is defined by the outside
edges of the roll cage members less the padding installed. So for the height of the SIM, it's to the
centerline; for the clearance to the driver, it’s to the outside of the tube.

Question: I had a question regarding the placement of the FAB. We went with front bracing. The
rules say: "If front bracing is used it must connect FBMUP, LFS and the SIM. Front bracing must be
attached as close as possible to the top of the roll cage (Point C)." Our RHO and FBM are one
continuous tube, so the distinction between the two tubes is blurred. Can we attach the FAB to the
node at point C? (The top Lateral Cross meets the RHO at node C.) Or do we have to attach the
FAB along the FBM before point C?
Answer: Attaching the FAB member at the node would be ideal. FYI, Figure RC3 on page 21 of the
rules indicates that point c is located at the start of the bend and is pointed out in the picture.

Question: Rule 31.2.5 states that "Lower frame side members shall join the RRH and LC and extend
to points forward of the driver’s heel to a front lateral cross member (FLC)." Is it required for the
FLC to be a metal tube, or would a metal bracket (that the steering rack mounts to) of sufficient
support be acceptable?
Answer: The FLC falls under this portion of rule 31.2.1: Additional required members must be steel
and only have a minimum thickness of .89 mm (.035 in) and a minimum outside diameter of 2.54 cm
(1.0 in) and are as follows: Lateral Diagonal Bracing (LBD), Lower Frame Side (LFS), Side Impact
Member (SIM), Fore/Aft Bracing (FAB), and Front Lateral Cross Member (FLC). This rule states
that the FLC must be 1" .035 wall steel tubing at a minimum. If you can provide calculations to
show that your design is equivalent in bending stiffness and strength of 1" .035 wall circular steel
tubing using the same methods described in rule 31.5, I will allow it. If you do not provide
calculations, you will be required to weld in a 1" .035 wall or greater tube in addition to your current
design.

Question: I am having trouble locating the weld samples that are referenced in the Baja rules on the
SAE website. Could you tell me where to find the weld samples on the website?
Answer: We are having problems getting samples welded up to take pictures of. I apologize for the
delay.

Question: I remember reading that if a college does not have the machinery to build their own roll
cage, they can have their own design fabricated elsewhere but must submit a letter from the college
confirming that the college doesn’t have the means to produce a roll cage. I just wanted to confirm
this before going any further.
Answer: From page 10 of the rules: 13.2 Professional Fabrication Limits - Vehicles which have been
professionally fabricated may be disqualified from the competition. If a team does not have access to
machine shop facilities, the frame can be professionally fabricated without penalty. Lack of access
must be documented (letter from the faculty advisor, copy of policies which prohibit machine shop
access, etc).

SECTION 32: COCKPIT

Question: In section 32.3.1 (F), concerning front or mid-engine cars, it is stated that “there must be a
place to mount the Technical Inspection sticker (30cm x 30cm or 12 in x 12 in) on the RRH” and “it
must be located on the driver’s right side above the shoulders in easy view of track workers”. Must it
be mounted so the sticker is the rear roll hoop plane or can it be oriented perpendicularly to that
plane, provided that it is still in easy view of track workers?
Answer: Must be mounted in the RRH plane.

Question: It is said in rule 32.3.1 that “if the engine is not placed in the rear of the car, then a
firewall is not required to cover the area between the lower and upper lateral cross members”.
Hence, if we were to mount the fuel tank behind the rear roll hoop but the engine was still in the front
or mid section of the car, then hypothetically, we wouldn't need to cover the entire area between the
lower and upper lateral cross member with a firewall (32.3) because the motor itself is not in the rear.
Is this a correct assumption? Of course, the fuel tank would be in a sealed metal container (1mm
thick) that prevents fuel from leaking in the event of gas tank failure.
Answer: That is correct; you do not need a firewall that spans across the RRH. But since you must
follow: 32.3.1 (A) Gas tank must be in a sealed container that prevents fuel from leaking in the event
of a gas tank failure. Make sure that your fuel tank follows rule: 35.1.1 Removable Fuel Tank.

Question: Rule 32.3 states the firewall has to be metal that is .020" thick. Does that mean we can
use aluminum that is .020" thick, or does it have to be the equitant to steel that is .020" thick?
Answer: "Metal" here means anything like steel or aluminum. The intent is to create a flame
resistant barrier that is at minimum .020" thick. There are no equivalences needed, only that the
minimum thickness is met.

Question: The 2009 rules state that the driver's feet must be protected from any moving suspension
and steering components. The rules also state that the front cross member has to be above the
driver's toes. Does this mean that the steering post can NOT go between the drivers legs? Are there
any other restrictions regarding the size, shape and space for the drivers feet other than what is stated
in the rules? Does the three inch rule from section 31.1 of the rules apply to the compartment
containing the drivers' feet? If the steering post can go between the driver’s legs, are there any
restrictions?
Answer: The steering shaft may go between the driver’s legs. Several baja cars have this
arrangement. The legs must be shielded from things like tie-rods, steering racks, and suspension
linkages.

Question: Would it be ok if we riveted our firewall to the roll cage? This would put holes in the
frame. We didn't see anything in the rules about it so we would like some clarification.
Answer: It is okay to rivet the firewall to the roll cage. It is recommended that you use steel / steel
rivets.

Question: I wanted to find out if a material such as Kevlar or spectra (an ultra high molecular weight
polyethylene) would be an acceptable body panel material. Both materials have a higher tensile
strength than steel and when in tension should provide better protection than thin aluminum sheet.
Answer: Rule 32.4 States that body panels: "must be made of plastic, fiberglass, metal or similar
material. They must be designed to prevent debris and foreign object intrusion into the driver
compartment. The panels must be mounted securely to the frame using sound engineering
practices (zip ties and Velcro are not acceptable)."

Question: Regarding rule 32.6 Leg and Foot Shielding, what is considered a "steering or suspension
link" for the purpose of this rule? For example, do universal joints on the steering shaft need to be
shielded, or is it only necessary to cover the actual tie rod and associated joints where they are within
the cockpit?
Answer: The intent of this rule is to support egress from the cockpit. The primary linkage we're
concerned about is the tie rods, however sometimes a closer look must be taken at the steering shaft,
or if a team has an unconventional suspension setup with linkages in the cockpit area. Generally
teams pad the steering shaft, but it is not something that typically is a problem. Basically there are no
set rules on the exact linkages that we check, but we do check to see that you can exit the cockpit
without getting caught. If it so happens to be on your universal joint, we may require that you make
modifications. This is really something we have to have a look at during tech inspection.

SECTION 33: DRIVER RESTRAINT

Question: Do the arm restraints have to be external or can they be built into the jacket?
Answer: Arm restraints cannot be built in to the jacket.

Question: For the safety belt, as said in the rule 31.2.1, the tube used to mount the safety belt must
meet the material specification per 31.5. If the safety belt is mounted on a bracket (tab mounts) as
said in the rule 33.3.1, does this mean that because the safety belt is not mounted directly on the tube,
it doesn’t need to meet rule 31.2.1?
Answer: Rule 33.2.3 clearly states (and is in bold lettering) that shoulder belts must be looped
around a frame tube. This means that harnesses with shoulder straps that have metal tabs at one end
for mounting are not acceptable for this year in BajaSAE. For all other belts, the tube that the
mounts are mounted on must meet 31.2.1.

Question: I am wondering if you could provide an example of the type of foam that would be
approved through rule 31.3 for the head restraint. We cannot find any foam that provides the density
with it. If you could let us know of any type of application that the foam or insulation from that
application could work that would be easily available.
Answer: A search at www.mcmaster.com for "foam" will allow you to search by density, and narrow
down to the product you want.
Question: I have a question regarding how to mount the shoulder harnesses. In the rule book under
section 33.2.3 Harness Attachment Points, it says "shoulder belts must be looped around a frame tube
and have something to limit belt movement." Does this mean that we cannot use the mounting tabs
provided with the seat belts? If we CAN use the tabs, do they have to be mounted so that they would
be pulled on in tension (tabs horizontal, perpendicular to firewall), or can they be mounted in
bending (tabs vertical, parallel to firewall)?
Answer: You are reading the rule correctly. The shoulder harness must be wrapped around the tube.
The line in the rule book is written in bold to emphasize this point.

Question: We had a question about the shoulder belt mounts. If we were to wrap the webbing
around a tube without the use of seatbelt tabs and have it sewn or otherwise connected together as to
prevent the belt from coming off and then wrap it around another tube all of which are attached to the
rear roll hoop, would that be in violation of rule 33.2.3? We would also have it mounted to prevent
range of motion.
Answer: Wrapping the webbing around the tube is the method required by the rules. However, if a
team purchases a harness with metal tabs for the shoulder belts, removes the tabs, and sews the
harness back together, then that would not be acceptable. By modifying the harness that way, there is
no way of knowing that the belt has retained its SFI rating. In sort, student modifications of the safety
harness are not allowed.

Question: Is it approved to use an anti-submarine belt from a different belts kit? Can I combine 2
kits of belts?
Answer: You may use an anti-submarine belt from another kit, provided that both kits meet the same
safety specifications, and that the original harness latch functions as intended.

Question: Can anti submarine belts be 2 inches wide?

Answer: We will allow a 2" wide anti-submarine belt.

SECTION 34: BRAKING SYSTEM

Question: Rule 21.4.17 still not mention if brakes are part of that rule. But I believe electronic
control of the brakes is still considered a performance enhancing device, so it must comply with this
rule.
Answer: It does not mention Brakes because we don't want you putting electrical systems in your
brake system that could fail and cause a loss of brakes. If you wanted to adjust a bias bar with an
electronic control then that would be fine but the power would need to come from the engine.

Question: My team was looking into the possibility of mounting a single rear caliper on the driven
sprocket of our rear torsion differential. The differential is not designed with a reduction, and is
designed to allow only limited slipping. Will this be a legal position on which our rear brakes could
operate?
Answer: Rule 34.4 states "The brake(s) on the driven axle must operate through the final drive.
Inboard braking through universal joints is permitted. Braking on a jackshaft or through an
intermediate reduction stage is prohibited." Given that the differential does not represent a fixed 1:1
ratio, completely shaft driven link between the input (the housing) and the output (both of the rear
wheels), a driven sprocket affixed to the differential housing cannot be considered the final drive.
Question: How would I go about determining if the standard SAE STIP2 03 DOT 2 for the reverse
light is equivalent to the required SAE J759? And also, if the R-SAE STIP2 A-SAE 1P2P 94 DOT 6
is equivalent to required standard for the break light (SAE J759)?
Answer: The rules state that you must have an "R" marked on the lens for reverse light and "S" or
"U" for the brake light. Since you are using SAE rated lights you don't need to worry about J759.
You just need to make sure you have that letter on the lens. Example: (iSAE IPRSTM this rating
would meet reverse and brake light specs)

Question: I seek clarification of rule 34.4. The rule states "34.4 Brake(s) Location: The brake(s) on
the driven axle must operate through the final drive. Inboard braking through universal joints is
permitted. Braking on a jackshaft or through an intermediate reduction stage is prohibited." I see no
wording that would in any way exclude CV joints, and they are surely as strong if not stronger than
U-joints. Could you please elaborate as to whether this setup is allowed?
Answer: For the purposes of rule 34.4, the term “universal joint” shall include both non-constant
velocity types (Hooke & Cardan) as well as constant velocity types (Tripod / Tripot & Rzeppa).
Braking though a differential shall not be permitted regardless of other drive train design features.

Question: My team is wondering if it is necessary to run two separate master cylinders for the front
and rear brake systems, or is it okay to run the two systems off of a single master cylinder that is
equipped with dual chambers, similar to that off of a car?
Answer: Your braking system must incorporate two (2) hydraulically independent circuits. This can
be accomplished with a dual chamber master cylinder given the proper upstream and downstream
connections.

Question: I have a question regarding the rules for the backup/reverse light. We found one that has
both the brake and reverse light all in one, except it doesn't say SAE-R on the glass. It does say SAE-
STAR 92 DOT however, and we were wondering if this would still comply with the rules.
Answer: For the brake light, the SAE lens marking must include “S” or “U”. For the reverse light,
the SAE lens must include “R”. If your lens is marked “SAE-STAR” then it would satisfy the rules
for both the brake light “SAE-STAR” and reverse light “SAE-STAR”.

SECTION 35: FUEL SYSTEM AND FUEL

Question: 35.3 Fuel Lines: We were looking into adding fuel gauge to the vehicle. We have found
capacitance liquid level sensors and wanted to use it in an external tube that is contacted to the fuel
line such that it connects to the fuel line in a T connector. The fluid level on the T pipe would equal
to the fuel level in the fuel tank. This would give us an accurate reading of the fuel level without
worrying about the fuel splashing around in the tank. We just wanted to know if this would be okay
to do with an equivalent sensor that is designed to work with fuel.
Answer: You can add the sensor as long as it is external to the tank.

Question: The removable gas tank rules are specific for the removal of the stock tank from a metal
container. I want to know if the entire enclosure can be removable.
Answer: You may not remove the enclosure and tank together from the car, only the tank from the
enclosure. One of the intents of the removable gas tank is to create an enclosure that can catch any
fuel spilled in the exchange process. By removing the entire enclosure, you violate this intent since
you must now have the quick disconnect either outside of the enclosure or removable from the
enclosure.

Question: Rules #35 Fuel System and Fuel: With respect to quickly filling the fuel tank during the
competition, our team thought it would be a good idea to extend a hose that could be mounted at an
easy access point for filling our fuel tanks. Is this legal? if so, what would be the specifications as to
the type of hose and mounting placement?
Answer: You may either have 1) a rigid mounted gas tank with sufficient splash guards at the mouth
of the tank (as per rules 35.2 and 35.4) or 2) a removable tank as explained in rule 35.1.1. The tank
must be the stock tank provided, and this implies that any extension of the neck of the gas cap by a
tube would be considered a modification to the tank (you would be able to hold more gas than other
teams).

SECTION 36: STEERING, SUSPENSION, AND FLOATATION SYSTEMS

Question: Previous years' rules have required positive stops on the front wheels to prevent over-
rotation in the event of a tie-rod failure. Has this rule been removed for the 2009 events?
Answer: The steering section of the rule book does not have any rules regarding positive wheel
stops.

SECTION 37: FASTENERS

Question: Would it be legal to make a pin that could be snap-ringed to be secured or similar type
method? Basically a shaft with ends bounded with snap-rings. Would that be legal? Or could we
make a bolt out of stainless steel and nylock and safety wire that on?
Answer: You are permitted to make fasteners, however student built fasteners must be documented
and have equivalency calculations when you come through tech inspection. This is highlighted in the
fastener rules.

Question: I would like to know what is covered by the rule of OEM rotors and hubs not requiring
wire ties?
Answer: The OEM rotors and hubs that do not require wire ties are rotor hub assemblies that you
purchase together as an assembly.

SECTION 38: GUARDS

Question: In rule 38.1, it is said that powertrain guards may be a “material having equivalent energy
absorption at rupture” as AISI 1010 steel at least 1.524 mm (0.06 inch) thick. It also states that
“documentation from the material manufacturer showing the Ultimate Strength, Elongation at Break,
and Modulus of Elasticity of the alternative material must be provided”. In the case where this
information cannot be given by the manufacturer, can we provide data (values and stress-strain
curves) from traction tests conducted in our labs? Would that ensure that we meet section 38.1 of the
rules?
Answer: You can provide actual testing data signed off by your faculty advisor and team captain.

Question: Can we use carbon fibre in the guard for the CVT?
Answer: You may use any material you like for the CVT guard as long as you meet the requirements
in rule 38.1.

Question: I have a question about the drive train guard that will cover our belt driven CVT. I
understand that during technical inspection the CVT cover will be taken off to reveal the CVT. Is it
legal to have this guard in multiple sections? During inspection, how much of the belt drive CVT
guard has to be removed? Will it be enough to have only a top guard/side shield section be removed?
Answer: It is not against the rules to have the guard in multiple sections as long as there are no gaps
through which debris can pass through. During inspection enough of the belt guard will have to be
removed so that inspectors can verify that you have sufficient shielding.

SECTION 39: DRIVER EQUIPMENT REQUIREMENTS

Question: I have a question concerning rule 39.2. The rule specifies the need of an SFI rated upper
garment, but must the rest of the clothing be SFI rated? (pants, shoes, socks, gloves). If so, could you
please indicate the minimum SFI rating for each one?
Answer: Only the driver’s upper garment must be SFI rated. A driver does not have to have SFI
rated gloves, pants, or shoes. As the rule is written, there is no specific rating for the upper garment,
so long as it has an SFI certification.

SECTION 50: TECHNICAL INSPECTION

Question: I have been searching for an updated technical inspection sheet for 2009, but have not
found it.
Answer: It will be up on there around two weeks prior to the first competition. Use the rules as your
checklist.....everything on the list is from the rules.

Question: I had a question about a rule. 50.1.3 says that the vehicle must remain in "as approved"
condition after inspections. Only minor adjustments and tuning are allowed, our vehicle may be
incorporating a quick change option on the rear differential which will change our gear ratio for
certain events. Would this be considered a violation of the rules? Please let us know so we can go
forward because we don't wish to violate rules or the intent of the rules.
Answer: "As approved" condition means that you cannot swap new or modified parts into the
vehicle. Thus, you cannot swap a differential with different ratios in after tech, but if you have
multiple gear ratios already on the differential and you wish to swap between equipment already on
the car, that is okay.

SECTION 51.2: COST EVENT

Question: Rule 21.4.16 states that onboard instrumentation/data acquisition is allowed and must be
included in the team’s cost report. If this equipment is connected to another system that is not
onboard (for example, data is collected by a computer via telemetry) must the cost of the “outboard”
equipment be included in the cost report as well?
Answer: Anything on the car must be included in the cost, if you are using this data during the
events or you are using the (outboard) equipment as a design feature then it must be included.

Question: I have a question on how fabricated pieces should be priced in the cost report. For
example, we are making the frame from 4130 tubing, and it has already been welded together. In the
cost report it calls for density (0.284 lb/in^3 ) and price per unit ($2.00 per lb) to be used from the
cost tables to formulate the cost. It also says, alternatively you can leave the density blank, and the
cost will be formulated from the amount and price per unit. Do we have to stick to the $2.00 per lb
cost table unit, or can it be the cost per unit of a retailer? The reason being is because I do not know
the weight of all the tubes that were used, and that is what the cost table unit is in. I do know the
length of all the tubes used, and finding cost per inch or foot is an easy task since most retailers use
that.
Answer: You will need to use the cost tables in order to calculate the tube cost. This makes a level
playing field for all teams. If you know the length of the all the tubes used, you can easily calculate
the volume (volume of a cylinder) and input this into the “Amount” column.

Question: In the Frame B section under the Roll Cage Tubes Only, what is the difference in tube
cuts, and saw cuts (cut to length)?
Answer: Tube cuts are rough cuts, and saw cuts are more exact cuts in order to get the tubes to fit
together exactly. For example, let's say you had an angled cut. You'd probably cut the tube to length
first, and then cut it again for the angle. Therefore, you'd have 1 tube cut and 1 saw cut. For the
straight cuts though, perhaps you'd just have 1 saw cut and no rough cut.

Question: How would fiberglass and sheet plastic be priced? I would suspect it to be included in the
cost guide to make it fair for everyone, but I don't see it matching up with anything in it.
Answer: If you are using a material not listed in the "Cost Tables" use the full retail price and
provide documentation of this cost in your .pdf document.

Question: I am not sure how to delete the unnecessary tabs off of the original 2009 Cost Report
Template. The option does not appear when the tab is right clicked. Can you help??
Answer: Unfortunately, different versions of Excel act differently. Therefore, if you can’t figure it
out, don’t worry about it. We will not count off for this.

Question: If we have some parts that are a sponsorship should we include this in the cost report?
Answer: Per the Instructions tab on the Cost Report Template under Cost Reporting Data:
“Contributed, Discounted and Sale Items – Use the Retail List Price. Even if you bought the part on
sale or at a discount use the Retail List Price - do not use the sale or discount price.” A sponsored
part would be considered a contributed part. The full retail price must be used.

Question: I am having an issue with adding a row to form B lists. Do I need a password to unlock
the sheet or workbook? How can I add rows to these lists?
Answer: The worksheet will allow you to add a row; it will not allow you add a column. See the
Instructions tab under “Form B Issues and editing” for instructions how to add these.

SECTION 51.3: PRESENTATION

Question: For the purposes of the Baja SAE presentation in Oregon, is the 4000 per year
manufacturing rate at full capacity after considering startup time, or are 4000 units expected within
the first calendar year?
Answer: The presentation should be geared to 4000 units per year, regardless of timeline. For
example, you may need to ramp production in the first 12 months to be able to produce 4000 units.
In the second 12 months, you still need to produce 4000 units, so make sure you have production
capabilities for the given example.