Cineaste Publishers, Inc.

Going Beyond Despair: An Interview with Mike Leigh

Author(s): Leonard Quart and Mike Leigh
Source: Cinéaste, Vol. 28, No. 1 (WINTER 2002), p. 39
Published by: Cineaste Publishers, Inc.
Stable URL: http://www.jstor.org/stable/41689554
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 Going Beyond Despair:
An Interview with Mike Leigh
by Leonard Quart
Cineaste: Was there any special reason after making Topsy-Turvy
that you returned in All or Nothing to a contemporary milieu - one
where working-class families live despairing, unfulfilled lives?
Mike Leigh: Of course, on the crudest, most literal level the film is
a return to contemporary life, and the milieu is important as far as it
goes. But what All or Nothing is fundamentally dealing with are
universal themes like the nature of relationships, feelings, and
surviving. And though there is despair, it is anguish that should be
looked at in terms of hope and redemption. There are characters in
the film that are angst-ridden, without hope of change, but for the
most part it's about the potential of the film's characters to achieve
fulfillment. Obviously, it's not a simple celebration of life, for, even
at the conclusion, there are questions hanging over the fate of the
Bassett's daughter, Rachel. Still, All or Nothing is the antithesis of my
first feature film, Bleak Moments , where everything stays the same
for the characters, where no possibility of redemption exists. It's a
film that goes beyond despair.
Cineaste: Basically , hope rests in this film not with social or economic
change, but in the reconnection of husband and wife, parents and children.
Leigh: Philosophically, every feeling contains its opposite. What's
important is that, finally, when Phil and Penny reconnect, you can
see that it was there all the time. Their feelings and emotions were
blown away or covered over by layers of coping with cynicism and a
difficult existence. They had suffered a breakdown of trust and
communication, and now their loyalty has reemerged. The film is
also about potential. So their son Rory's heart condition is a
manifestation of his frustration and lack of fulfillment. When he has
his heart attack, people focus on his needs, and, implicitly, you see
something of his potential as a person being realized.
Cineaste: Would you agree that the film, as much of your work,
conveys a vision of how the most ordinary people carry the capacity to
achieve another level of being, to reach an almost tragic stature ?
Leigh: That's what the entire film is about and certainly the core of
my life's work. Phil is related to a long line of philosophical guys in
my films, who feel deeply but articulate very little of what they are
thinking. Though there are moments like the cab scene with the
sophisticated Frenchwoman, when he expresses his ideas, Phil is a
man who is usually silent about what he is thinking and feeling.
Cineaste: Where would you place All or Nothing in relation to your
past work?
Leigh: We know that, on the whole, there's a general tendency to
discuss what I do in terms of character and relationships and the
nature of rehearsals and acting, which is fine. But, of course, what
I'm up to, continuously, is much more expansive - I'm experi-
menting in making films at all sort of levels. It's not just about
character, it's also about the expression of ideas, place, and dramatic
structure. It was in* Naked that I went beyond making films that
merely depicted an interesting collection of relationships between
people. Life is Sweet is the last of those films. With Naked I broke
into my own and constructed the epic out of the domestic. The
other films followed from it.
All or Nothing, as far as I'm concerned, does things that none of
my other films have done at all. I've been able to be much more
complex. There are lots of my films, including Topsy-Turvy , where
the narrative works more by accumulation than cause and effect.
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This film is subtler, because everything that happens has got a dra-
matic impact. All these people are locked into each other's lives and
crises. And that's its substance if you deconstruct the film structural-
ly. There is an organic relation between the characters, and it all
comes together. I'm not just going over old territory. That's wrong-
headed analysis. In fact, I feel that I'm starting for the first time, but
I still have a long way to go.
Cineaste: Would you say a few words about the sudden death of
Katrin Cartlidge, an actress that starred in two of your films, Naked
and Career Girls, and was a personal friend?
Leigh: Katrin was not only a formidable actress, but an extra-
ordinary personality - honest, funny, anarchic, intelligent, and
somebody with unique courage. She was an artist with a great ability
and perception. The shock of her death resonated worldwide, both
for those who knew her and those who didn't. All of those people
who knew her felt they had lost a friend. There was no such thing as
anybody being an acquaintance with her. She was incredibly
committed as a friend - always following things up, giving a great
deal emotionally. Her funeral was one of the most moving I've ever
been to - traumatic, really. Her death came from nowhere.
Cineaste: What is your view of the current state of British cinema?
Leigh: Well, Lynne Ramsay (Ratcatcher) is a very exciting young
director. She has a gift for merging realism with dreamscape. There
is real profundity in her work. I also feel there is a positive shift in
the climate of British filmmaking. Up until recently, too many
superficial, self-consciously commercial films were being made -
films that were quasi- Hollywood in style. A number of them were
successful, and I resented the golden opportunity that was being lost.
Secondly, I take very seriously the education of filmmakers, and I
know that there is a huge potential out there. There is a very talented
pool of young directors that excites me. Although I will continue to
work with an old-fashioned 35mm camera, I accept that there is a
technical revolution going on, and it will liberate a lot of young film-
makers to do the kinds of things that they wouldn't have access to in
the past. We can't be Luddites. Still, despite the positive signs, we're
up against the big monster - Hollywood. ■
Timothy Spall stars in Mike Leigh's All or Nothing.
CINEASTE, Winter 2002 39