Robin: and practice

Julie: i will do that

yes

Robin: but remember - don't walk and ‘stir’ the thoughts

lol

Julie: :-)

Robin: take this practice very seriously

in the sense of doing it over and over till it works

Julie: yes .
Robin: u will find yourself drifting into thoughts
then catch it - and practice

Julie: ok yes
Robin: then u will drift again
then catch it again

Julie: yes..

Robin: and be MINDFUL

of life OUTSIDE ‘Julie’

Julie: yes
yes

Robin: life is perfectly ok

but your mind is just racing

Julie: yes

Robin: but YOU are ok too

because YOU are part of life
and YOU don't even WANT these thoughts
Julie: yes

Robin: doesn't that make u wonder

who are YOU that doesn't want the thoughts
are the thoughts YOU
they cant be if YOU don't WANT them
YOU are fine - neutral
but you are getting drawn into the thoughts
which are JUST thoughts
then they make you anxious
and then you add MORE thoughts and so on
Julie: yes

Robin: the key is to stop ADDING to this

and when u 'get this' u will be AMAZED
it is the most precious learning ever
to see that thoughts really ARE just thoughts
for the rest of your life u will feel a greater sense of strength
this is best thing i learned from panic
but it was hell learning it
so i know how u feel

Julie: :-)

Robin: so u catching it a bit?

Julie: yes - will go for walk .

Robin: ok - it will take a while

but what i want you to do is to try to not let it go too long without u 'catching' it

Julie: ok

Robin: it will come and go and come and go

Julie: yes
Robin: but persevere

Julie: yes

Robin:
and most of all RE FOCUS - to OUTSIDE
and smile
its NOT avoidance
don't BLOCK the thoughts
just stop giving them ALL your attention
that's unnatural
be mindful of everything without judging anything
thoughts - body
the ‘depression’
the road
people
sky

Julie: yes

Robin:
then when the 'future' thoughts come in
like "my life is always going to be like this.."
catch it
smile
and straight back to practice

Julie: ok

Robin: even if you feel really drawn to the thoughts of gloom

Julie: :-)

Robin: so - this is GREAT practice for u today

Julie: :-)
Robin:
seriously though
this one helped me feel more stable than the practice with physical sensations
afterwards..
once i saw that i could be ok even with these horrible thoughts i felt SO ok

Julie: you seem so clear. i wish i were so different .. I wish I felt as clear as you do

Robin: u are stirring again - lol

Julie: :-) yes lol

DIALOGUE number 2
In this dialogue Julie has been previously feeling less panic but is feeling
anxious about that and is in two minds about whether she would feel less
anxious if she didn’t think about being free of panic. It’s a strange logic that
will make sense to all people who go through Panic Disorder

Julie: hi
this is almost fourth time this is happening.. that whenever i feel that i am now far
away from any panic or tension.. next day i suddenly get panic attack when i am not
even thinking about it.. .. earlier i used to be on constant alert .. avoiding doing things
that would trigger panic.. so i would be able to save myself from feeling panic.. now
when i feel i am almost cured of it.. i feel panic ... so i felt perhaps its better to
constantly feel alert, anxious.. .. not consciously .. but i felt .. perhaps its better to
not think about getting cured of panic

i know have to let panic be.. it will come down whenever it will... these days.. when i
panic... the acute feeling of fear just lasts for few minutes as if my BP is risen.... then
it comes down immediately ..... earlier i used to feel that acute fear almost for half
hour..... then i kept feeling uneasy for long time....

Robin: ok -
this is exactly what happened to me too

Julie: really?

Robin: it brings it all back to me

its amazing how the brain thinks
at the bottom of it is us trying to figure out some way NOT to panic at ALL

Julie: i feel sort of trapped... cant feel panic as i used to .. and don't feel ok too... ..
yes.

Robin: so - u are thinking that maybe if you don't THINK about getting cured of panic
you won't panic

Julie: yes
Robin: can u see it is still an attempt to STOP it
which is subtle anxiety
its tricky
u have to allow all this
but bottom line is - its OK to panic

Julie: i felt i should stop talking about panic with you every day... i did not get so
many panic attacks earlier.. i was used to avoiding everything that created panic.

Robin: nothing is wrong

Julie: yes

Robin: but u still feared panic VERY much

i actually WANT you to panic EVERY day for exposure practice

Julie: but i can see that it has made so much difference

talking and practising every day

Robin: its the quickest way

yes - it's unpleasant - but the rewards are immense

Julie: but i can see the improvement

Robin: u need to ask "are u prepared to feel some anxiety every day"

Julie: i know that i have started facing so many things i avoided.

Robin: its what is needed

you are almost through trust me

Julie: i can be more relaxed in people's company .. not fearing .. what they will say
next .. in case it will trigger panic

Robin: u probably created another form of the cycle of fear

Julie: ok

Robin: today you are afraid that you have been panicking every day
Julie: yes

Robin: so u fear that this will happen for ever

another cycle

Julie: i thought is it creating stress for me.. and will that affect my diabetes and BP
Robin: yes - u will have that extra worry
but it wont - remember the doctor said that your blood sugar levels take a long time
to react and that if your BP is raised for a short time because of anxiety that is normal
u are doing really well
u aren't really panicking as before
u just feel constant uneasiness
which i remember well

Julie: i thought that if panic really is harmless.. then i need not try to overcome it...
i can just know this and forget about it... so not ASK for it..
I thought if I practice too much with exposure to panic and the anxiety level is
constantly high..then wont it affect.. or wont it trigger the habit of anxiety?

Robin: remember that without exposure you have STILL had panic disorder for
some years now - avoidance has helped you avoid some of the anxiety but it was
always there in the background - the impact on your life was huge. Exposure may
seem to increase the anxiety but eventually it will lead to NO anxiety

Julie: but its good that i am asking

Robin: yes
GREAT
i forgot this one

Julie: no .. but last five years i have been successful in avoiding it most of the time

Robin: yes if u stay in house for ever it seems like a success lol
"I cant go out but at least I don't panic"
lol

Julie: lol yes .. that was so sad

yes
Robin: stick with it - it will get easier

Julie: yes

Robin: u are right on target

this will run for few more days

Julie: this is a difficult stage.. because my mind is rebelling..

Robin: then u will get used to it

Julie: ok

Robin: this is causing SO much practice

which is GREAT
u are having to repeat the skills
u are having to accept - face etc
its the only way
its about TIME

Julie: and i am facing EVERYTHING.. i cannot escape now.. anywhere .. because the
mind is making me face too... its war going on in my mind.... two sides... one which
wants me to overcome panic.. and one who says.... just keep your self safe..

Robin: yes
but don't worry - u know too much now
u will move onwards

Julie: and the last argument is... but you are not me.... you wont know.... and i might
be weaker than anyone who would overcome panic..

Robin: lol
THE ALL TIME CLASSIC
lol

Julie: :-)
Robin: u have said them ALL now

Julie: lol
Robin: u should get a prize or something

Julie: lol

Robin: try this

draw a graph in your head of progress
from years ago to now
even if you still 'feel' bad
there is CHANGE
you are NOT cowering in the corner

Julie: and people around me are still where they were with my panic... they make
me go back.. giving similar reactions...

Robin: u are NOT terrified

Julie: no

Robin: u know what panic REALLY is now

u have proved it several times
but remember i told u exactly that it wouldn't just vanish
without being faced
so this is expected

Julie: yes

Robin: normal

Julie: yes

Robin: so no big surprise

in fact i am so glad you are having to face it

Julie: :-)

Robin: as long as u avoid u fear it

like the movie analogy
if you avoided the scary movie
u would always FEAR it