2005-06-09 I Just Got Back From A FEMA Detainment Camp

I just got back from a FEMA Detainment Camp - Above Top Secret Conspiracy Community
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Important Update To This Story!

Government Rebuttal Has Been Posted to ATS.
Rebuttal to "I just got back from a FEMA Detainment Camp"
By Ed Kostiuk, Oklahoma State Dept of Health, Emergency Management
<< 1 2 3 >>
I just got back from a FEMA Detainment Camp

Author:
Valhall posted on 6-9-2005 at 12:59 AM Post Number: 1664014 (post id: 1685907)
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/fema.html (1 of 33)4/10/2008 2:44:23 AM

I'm extremely depressed to report that things seem to only be getting sadder concerning the people so
devastatingly affected by Katrina last week. Two car loads of us headed over to Falls Creek, a youth camp
for Southern Baptist churches in Oklahoma that agreed to have its facilities used to house Louisiana
refugees. I'm afraid the camp is not going to be used as the kind people of the churches who own the cabins
believe it was going to be used.
Jesse Jackson was right when he said "refugees" was not the appropriate word for the poor souls dislocated
due to Katrina. But he was wrong about why it is not appropriate. It's not appropriate because they are
detainees, not refugees.
Falls Creek is like a small town that is closed down about 9 months out of the year. It is made up of cabins
that range from small and humble to large and grandiose, according to how much money the church who
owns the cabin has. Each cabin has full kitchen facilities, bathrooms and usually have two large bunkrooms -
one for women and one for men. The occupancy of the cabins varies according to the church. This past week
the Southern Baptist association of Oklahoma offered the facility as a place to house refugees from the
Katrina disaster. Each church owning a cabin was then called to find out if they would make their cabin
available. Churches across the state agreed.
I started my journey by loading six large trash bags full of clothes in the back of my beetle buggy. I then
went to the local Dollar General and purchased various hygiene products, snacks and even a set of dominoes
and a deck of cards. I had my daughter take her own shopping cart and go and select her own items that
she wanted to take. I told her to imagine herself without anything in the world and then select what she
would need to live every day.
We then met up with my elderly parents who had gone to the Dollar Store themselves, and to the grocery
store and had spent WAY too much of their limited social security on the venture. But that's okay. We ended
up having to take both vehicles on the 150 mile round trip because they were both pretty full. My son
showed up and wanted to go. He drove my parents while my daughter and I rode in my car.
To say we all left with excitement would be appropriate. My 78 year old mother is a "fixer". She loves to help
people and she absolutely needs some one to dote over. That she was about to be able to help some people
who had lost all in their lives had her feeling physically healthier than I've seen her in days. I was glad to get
the chance to actively do something other than donate what little I can to some faceless charity hoping it
would get to the people who needed it. I felt glad I could do some small something that might cut through
the helplessness I've felt over this situation. Both of my kids were eager to assist.
The only odd thing that occurred prior to setting off happened while I was gassing up in our small town. My
daughter was pumping the gas and a lady she knew pulled up to an adjacent pump. My daughter started
telling her where we were going and that we were taking things to the refugees. The lady told my daughter
that she had been told the Red Cross was not allowing any one to deliver supplies. When I returned to the
car from paying for the gas my daughter informed of this. I told her that the Red Cross would not be
preventing the members of our church from entering our own cabin, so it really didn't matter. It was at that
point we decided to stop back by the house and get my daughter's camera so that she could take pictures if
required.
From the moment I heard about Falls Creek being scheduled to receive refugees I had two thoughts run
through my mind:
1. What a beautiful place to be able to stay while trying to get your life back in order.
2. What a terrible location to be when you're trying to get your life back in order.

The first thought is because Falls Creek is nestled in the Arbuckle Mountains of south central Oklahoma. One
of the more beautiful regions of the state. It would be a peaceful and beautiful place to try to start mending
emotionally, and begin to figure what you're going to do next.
The second thought comes because Falls Creek is very secluded and absolutely no where near a population
center. The closest route from Falls Creek to a connecting road is three miles on a winding narrow road
called "High Road" (It gets that name for two reasons - it's goes over the mountain instead of around it like
"Low Road" does, and it's where the teenagers of the area go to party). The road has not a single home on it
for over 3 miles. After battling that 3 miles over mountains, you'll find yourself about 5 miles from the
nearest town, Davis, Oklahoma, population ca. 2000. This is no place to start a new life.
A few pictures headed toward Falls Creek over High Road to give you a feel of the seclusion.



All of sudden the landscape changed from picturesque mountainous rural America, to something foreign to
me as we approached the rear gate of the camp. Two Oklahoma State Patrol vehicles and four Oklahoma
Troopers guarded the gate. We started through and they stopped us.
"Can I help you, ma'am?"
I informed him we're here to deliver supplies to *our church's name* cabin. He stood silent and stared at
me. My daughter turned and snapped a picture of his vehicle - very conspicuously.
I smiled at him and he asked, "Do you know where that cabin is located?"
I informed him I did. He looked at me a bit longer and then said, "Ok" and stepped away from the car. They
stopped my parents' vehicle as well, but I assume my son informed them he was with us. They let them
pass.

We made our way through the narrow streets toward our church's cabin.
We noticed that the various church cabins had numbered placards on them that normally weren't there.

We arrived at our cabin and started toting the clothes in. We finally found a group of men upstairs in the
dorms trying to do something alien to them - make beds. They had almost completed the room of bunk beds
and told us we could go over to the ladies' dorm room and start on it. We lugged our sacks of clothes back
down the stairs. Then we got the first negative message. "You can't bring any clothes in. FEMA has stated
they will accept no more clothes. They've had 30 people sorting clothes for days. They don't want anymore."
My mind couldn't help but go back over the news articles that have accused FEMA of refusing water in to
Jefferson Parrish, or turning fuel away.
We lugged the bags of clothes back to the car. We then turned to bringing in our personal hygiene products.
That's when we learned our cabin had been designated a "male only" cabin. Approximately 40 men, ranging
from age 13 on up would be housed there. We started resacking the female products and sorted out
everything that would be useful for men.
We lugged the bags of female products back to the car. We asked if they knew of a cabin that had been
designated for women. The "host" (the hosts are Oklahoma civilians who have been employeed??? by FEMA
to reside at each cabin and have already gone through at least one "orientation" meeting conducted by FEMA
at "BASE" which is some unknown but repetitively referred location within the camp) told us he believed
McAlester cabin was dedicated to females. He then explained there were male, female and family cabins
designated.
We then started lugging in our food products. The foods I had purchased were mainly snacks, but my mother
- God bless her soul - had gone all out with fresh vegetables, fruits, canned goods, breakfast cereals, rice,
and pancake fixings. That's when we got the next message: They will not be able to use the kitchen.
Excuse me? I asked incredulously.
FEMA will not allow any of the kitchen facilities in any of the cabins to be used by the occupants due to fire
hazards. FEMA will deliver meals to the cabins. The refugees will be given two meals per day by FEMA. They
will not be able to cook. In fact, the "host" goes on to explain, some churches had already enquired about
whether they could come in on weekends and fix meals for the people staying in their cabin. FEMA won't
allow it because there could be a situation where one cabin gets steaks and another gets hot dogs - and...
it could cause a riot.
It gets worse.
He then precedes to tell us that some churches had already enquired into whether they could send a van or
bus on Sundays to pick up any occupants of their cabins who might be interested in attending church. FEMA
will not allow this. The occupants of the camp cannot leave the camp for any reason. If they leave the
camp they may never return. They will be issued FEMA identification cards and "a sum of money" and they
will remain within the camp for the next 5 months.
My son looks at me and mumbles "Welcome to Krakow."
My mother then asked if the churches would be allowed to come to their cabin and conduct services if the
occupants wanted to attend. The response was "No ma'am. You don't understand. Your church no longer
owns this building. This building is now owned by FEMA and the Oklahoma Highway Patrol. They have it for
the next 5 months." This scares my mother who asks "Do you mean they have leased it?" The man replies,
"Yes, ma'am...lock, stock and barrel. They have taken over everything that pertains to this facility for the
next 5 months."
We then lug all food products requiring cooking back to the car. We start unloading our snacks. Mom
appeared to have cornered the market in five counties on pop-tarts and apparently that was an acceptable
snack so the guy started shoving them under the counter. He said these would be good to tied people over
in between their two meals a day. But he tells my mother she must take all the breakfast cereal back. My
mother protests that cereal requires no cooking. "There will be no milk, ma'am." My mother points to the
huge industrial double-wide refrigerator the church had just purchased in the past year. "Ma'am, you don't
understand...
It could cause a riot."
He then points to the vegetables and fruit. "You'll have to take that back as well. It looks like you've got
about 10 apples there. I'm about to bring in 40 men. What would we do then?"
My mother, in her sweet, soft voice says, "Quarter them?"
"No ma'am. FEMA said no...
It could cause a riot. You don't understand the type of people that are about to come here...."
I turn and walk out of the room...lugging all the healthy stuff back to the car. My son later tells me the man
went on to say "We've already been told of teenage girls delivering fetuses on buses." My son steps toward
him and says "That's because they've almost been starved to death, haven't had a decent place to get a
good night's sleep, and their bodies can't keep a baby alive. I'm not sure that's any evidence some one
should be using to show these are 'bad people'."
We then went to the second dorm room and made up beds. When we got through and were headed outside
the host says to me and my daughter, "How did you get in here?" I told him we came in through the back
gate. He replies, "No, HOW did you get in here? No one who doesn't have credentials showing is supposed to
be in here." (I had noticed all the "hosts" had two or three badges hanging around their necks.) I told him it
might have had something to do with the fact my daughter was snapping pictures of the OHP presence at
the gate. He then tells us, "Well, starting in the morning NO ONE comes in. So if you have further goods you
want to donate you will have to take them to your local church. They will collect them until they have a full
load and then bring them to the front gate."

Me and my two kids then walked over the hill to the camp's amphitheater.
First - just another OHP car...
The amphitheater is full of clothes (but I'm not sure I'm seeing enough for 5000 people for 5 months).


But there was more...an Oklahoma Department of Safety truck and a military vehicle...

and a cell phone tower (which fretling didn't get a pic of...grrr). Falls Creek, because it sits in a "bowl"
surrounded by mountains, is notorious for no cell phone coverage.
There were buses coming in the front gate at about a rate of 1 every 2 or 3 minutes. We could hear them
below us as we walked back up the hill. We could also see their white tops through the trees. We figured
these were busloads of refugees arriving, but we never saw these buses in the camps, nor were any
refugees visible at the camp while we were there.
We then loaded back into our vehicles and headed toward the cabin we had been told was for women so that
we could off-load our appropriate products. When we arrived there was no one in the cabin so we preceded
to unload our vehicles and take the merchandise in to the cabin. A horde of "hosts" who had been hovering
at a nearby cabin head toward us.
"Can we help you?"
I explained to them what we were doing.
"Uhh... you can't just leave donated goods in the cabins. FEMA has stated they want all supplies to go to
their central warehouse. They said they have had far too many supplies come in and they need to handle
them. You can't leave ANY clothes."
I just stared at them.
One chubby-checker, after several moments of pregnant pause broken only by the sound of my 82 year old
dad continuing to shuffle boxes out of the back of his car (GO DAD!), says "I'll call "BASE" and confirm what
should happen here."
I continue to stare.
He pounds out the number on his cell phone and when some one picks up he chickens out and just asks "I
need to verify that cabin 11 is a female only facility." When he hangs up he says that it is and I respond,
"Well, good, we'll get on with this then." It's at that point my son pulls me aside and says, "Every damned
one of them have the same phone. That's what the comm tower is for at the amphitheater. Now we know
how FEMA runs through billions, they've given every one of these people a Cingular phone when walkie-
talkies would have worked just fine."
We off-load our goods into the McAlester cabin. Fretling takes pics of the buckets of toys that have been
donated by citizens for the kiddos coming this way.

And a dorm room:

We then start out of the camp. I tell my daughter I want to go out the main gate this time. Here is what we
saw on the way out:
Just another OHP car...

This cabin was apparently commandeered by a group of people in navy blue jumpsuits with insignias all over
them. You can see them in the left side of this pic. But they were standing all over the place on both sides of
the narrow street.

This is just one OHP car in a long line of them parked along the side of the street.

Three firetrucks parked along the river.
Talk about a surreal moment...troops (unknown if Regular or National Guard) have taken up residency in the
Durant First Baptist Church cabin very near the main gate of the camp.




Two things to point out in the pictures above...we passed a row of about 6 or 8 ambulances parked in the
street just in front of the troop cabin, and the large tent on the top of the hill...we have no idea what that is
for.
Main gate completely blocked by OHP vehicles as we approach:

More OHP vehicles parked at the rear gate as we pass by:

Now I'm starting to understand why it doesn't matter that this location is not conducive to starting a new
life.
[edit on 9-6-2005 by Valhall]

FredT posted on 6-9-2005 at 01:11 AM Post Number: 1664028 (post id: 1685921)
Surreal
We have people coming to San Jose and San Francisco. I wonder if it will be much the same.
This should be an ATSNN story IMHO.
In regards to
quote:
navy blue jumpsuits with insignias all over them. You can see them in the left side of this pic. But they
were standing all over the place on both sides of the narrow street.
Given the repot of 8 ambulances at the location, those blue uniforms look alot like the EMS style worn by our
EMT's so they could have been just out shooting the breeze. Perhaps the paramedics / EMT-1's are going to
be the camps medical staff.
How close is the nearest medical facility to this camp?
Two last questions: Did you get a fell for the total numbers of troops there and the State Troopers / Highway
Patrol (two different signs on the cars so i assume they are seperate entities)
And was the "If you leave you can never come back" edict posted anywhere? I would love to see one of the
briefing papers given to the inmates here adn see what exactly FEMA is saying to them. SO much for the
land of the free
twitchy posted on 6-9-2005 at 01:12 AM Post Number: 1664031 (post id: 1685924)
Wow man. Maybe we aren't so paranoid afterall. Too bad you didn't get any video, I bet Alex jones would
give his left one for this story Valhall.
Do you have any media contacts? I could give you some information if you want to take this story and run
with it, it might not make clear the mainstream media, but my god you got pure gold there for the
independent media.
edsinger posted on 6-9-2005 at 01:42 AM Post Number: 1664078 (post id: 1685971)
Keep in mind that people will be pissed off and order must be kept somehow. The EMS personel are there to
'check' them over.
Notice the word riot was used a lot, do they know something YOU dont?
Anyhow nice guesture and great story. I just feel you are over reacting a bit, my mother lives in a trailer
park north of NO and they have brought some 'refugees' there. There has already been a shooting and a
bunch of looting. They now have Sheriffs D's full time in the place I grew up
Valhall posted on 6-9-2005 at 01:48 AM Post Number: 1664090 (post id: 1685983)
Do you think I'm over-reacting to the idea of being bussed hundreds of miles from what I am familiar with to
a place miles from civilization and from which I cannot leave?
or
do you think I'm over-reacting to the fact that federal agencies are treating people who have done nothing
but lose all they ever owned to a natural disaster as if they are criminals waiting to make their next nefarious
move?
billybob posted on 6-9-2005 at 01:54 AM Post Number: 1664096 (post id: 1685989)

wow, valhall. i'm impressed with your whole family!

your story reads like a 'red dawn' type fiction novel. surreal, indeed.
i've been expecting this type of dress rehearsal for a long time, as many of us tin-foil hatters have. i feel it's
only going to get worse, sadly.
goodbye, sweet lady 'america', we barely knew thee.
edsinger posted on 6-9-2005 at 01:55 AM Post Number: 1664099 (post id: 1685992)
quote: Originally posted by Valhall
do you think I'm over-reacting to the fact that federal agencies are treating people who have done
nothing but lose all they ever owned to a natural disaster as if they are criminals waiting to make their
next nefarious move?
Look facts are facts, in the Trailer park in which I speak, things are not good. My mother has decided to arm
herself as she is scared. Not all of these people are bad but how do you tell? Do you wait until your mother is
raped or robbed and then ask to iD the thug? A very few are making this a nightmare and it is sad but
people need to be protected, even from themselves sometimes. Until order is established, some freedoms
are lost....it will not be 5 months either. THey are already letting some go and get their 'government' checks.
Another odd note I was told, only cash is being excepted locally, no CC or checks. I am not sure I believe it,
but it is kinda spooky.
Jamuhn posted on 6-9-2005 at 02:01 AM Post Number: 1664107 (post id: 1686000)
I'm in Baton Rouge and it is true that most businesses are only accepting cash now. Plus, the crime has
indeed increased. There's a bunch of homeless people here who sleep in their cars I've noticed.
FallenFromTheTree posted on 6-9-2005 at 02:51 AM Post Number: 1664195 (post id: 1686088)
Wow this is indeed a great story!
You might consider forwarding to NPR news.
I have many friends in Europe following the aftermath of Katerina story.
Would you mind if I forward a link?
ryan25 posted on 6-9-2005 at 03:07 AM Post Number: 1664216 (post id: 1686109)

i have to admit i was very skeptical about these so called fema detention camps but boy was i wrong
excellant post valhall
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nikelbee posted on 6-9-2005 at 03:09 AM Post Number: 1664225 (post id: 1686118)
Vall
I can't believe what I'm reading. They can't leave?? Why the prison conditions? What have these people
done but lose everything? I have suspicions about everything I've heard and seen so far. I notice how
quickly people are to turn on 'looters' and 'thugs' as they are now known in the rhetoric of this disaster.
It all sounds too familiar because most of the US went down this path when Iraq and Saddam were turned
into the scapegoats for 911. Same way to refer to 'muslims' same disparing breath - same way to refer to
them as 'animals' and to distance them from us.
I am so saddened by your post you cannot believe. Do you think it is possible they are being put there
because:
1. The people who were in the floods know better than anyone what really happened? When the news was
reporting the riots and looting and this and that - a lot of it distorted - what do you think the ordinary people
experienced? If they can't phone and they can't go anywhere, will we ever know? Plus how much brain
washing will go on in here? Some of the troops on arriving in NOLA said they were surprised it wasn't
anything at all like they were told. In terms of chaos I mean - they called it organized chaos. Not the wild
sodom and gamora like place before the destruction that we were told it was.
2. These US citizens who have now experienced the worst, will continue to suffer living in these conditions -
what do you think their reaction and their loyalty to their governemnt will be like now? There will be anarchy
in their minds and I will put this out to everyone - conservative, necon, lefty and right, christian and non... if
you were treated like that - like a common criminal and like a basic animal, because of your economic status
and your skin colour - would you be standing there pumping your chest up in pride while the flag waves and
'god bless america' plays in the background??? Pretend you have been starved, pushed around, frightened
and have lost everything and NOW you get to go to prison with these Fema Bast****.
What country do you pledge your allegiance to? This is not about country anymore, not when your rights are
taken away like this. Not when it is obviously about survival of the fittest - each person is on their own.
'That' is America. The idealism of togetherness and the little man equal to the big man is a myth.
If you had a car you escaped, if you had money you were evacuated, if you are poor your fate was to lose
everything, be thought of as a thug by your country and now you get to go to Camp Big Fun for 5 months.
While some of you ask yourselves what is wrong with this? What is wrong with you?? Can you not see this is
wrong? Leave your politics aside and think of it in terms of humanity. If these people were such 'animals'
how did New Orleans get by from day to day before the flood? For F*** sake it wasn't alcatraz.
This happened for a reason, the looting, the animal desperation, the fear - it causes this. And now those
people are paying the consequences for a government who is blaming everyone, especially the poor innocent
people.
Don't play into this rhetoric too - think for yourselves. Vall has done a great job showing us, now it is up to
you to deny the lies and search the truth about what is happening.
TK868 posted on 6-9-2005 at 03:20 AM Post Number: 1664232 (post id: 1686125)
Wow man that's really crazy..
I agree with what others said, you should try and take that story to some news sources. I doubt this is the
kinda thing FEMA/US Gov would want to be out in the open..but it needs to be!
Times are really changing over in the US...
spacedoubt posted on 6-9-2005 at 03:20 AM Post Number: 1664233 (post id: 1686126)
Question,
Have all the prisoners of the affected areas been accounted for?
I have read some stories of prisoners being relocated..
But when the levees broke, was there a hurried effort, just to keep them from drowning? in other words,
were cell doors just left open?
I'm asking this in light of Val's story, and the fact that security seems on the verge of paranoia..
Is it possible there are some, or even a lot, of hardcore criminals mixed in woth the refugees, and nobody
wants to admit it?
CatHerder posted on 6-9-2005 at 03:24 AM Post Number: 1664237 (post id: 1686130)
Ok, so let me get things straight.
Number 1: the camps were empty and there was not a single disaster victim there - and you took no
photos of any
Number 2: everyone going to this camp will have next to no posessions or no posessions at all
Number 3: the police allowed you in, and told you that you couldn't leave different types of food or clothing
otherwise somebody sometime might consider that to be unfair (that they didn't get the same "treat" their
neighbour had) and you couldn't leave food that needed to be cooked so they wouldn't have to worry about
accidental fires burning anything down and causing even more grief for the disaster victims and FEMA's
reputation
Number 4: there are some ambulances, and EMTs at the "main cabin"- and you took some photos of them
Number 5: there is a fire truck or two - and you took some photos of them
Number 6: staff onsite had cellphone radios and a local satellite tower for communications - and you took
some photos of it
Number 7: there are state police at the entrance - and you took photos of their vehicles
Well gosh, you sure got me there. This totally sounds like mistreated hostages in an internment camp.
Where are your photos of the barbed wire and minefields?
You were suprised and shocked that they didn't want to accept your clothes and food donations even though
they've been saying on the TV and radio and websites for a few days that anyone wanting to donate should
"donate money" or volunteer time with the Red Cross or their local church organization(s)?
Could it possibly be that you are jumping to conclusions and over-sensationalizing things similar to what you
did with the volcanic activity in Washington state a while back? As I recall you were "extremely alarmed" yet
(as all the scientists said it would) it vented some gas and let off a minor eruption.
I'll reserve judgement on these "camps" for a few weeks so I can see just how many of these people
complain about conditions or treatment. In the meantime I recommend you, and others, relax a bit and
perhaps donate money to a disaster charity.
[edit on 6-9-2005 by CatHerder]

SourGrapes posted on 6-9-2005 at 03:37 AM Post Number: 1664250 (post id: 1686143)
Welcome to the 'sue happy' country of the world, folks! So sad that we've stooped to a level that we have to
be so careful to not give any sort of reason that may cause a horrendous law suit.
Fresh food? No way, could go bad and cause a major law suit!
No clothes? No way, others may have a better selection which could cause a law suit.
No cooking for themselves? Heck no! Could cause burns or food prepared wrong, which could cause illness
and...you guessed it! a law suit.
Can't leave? Nope. Free to come and go could cause a 'stranger' to come onto the grounds who could rape or
harm one of the residents. Huge law suit.
I was actually wondering how the law would accomodate the housing of the displaced 'refugees'. I wondered
about the potential for law suits and other complaints towards those who 'just want to help'. I guess Val's
story above answered my question on how it would be dealt with.
Sure it sucks, but we only have our (sue happy) selves to blame!
wecomeinpeace posted on 6-9-2005 at 03:54 AM Post Number: 1664271 (post id: 1686164)
I'd just like to say thanks to Val for this excellent and personal account of a small piece of this ongoing
tragedy; a tragedy which will, for those directly affected by it, continue for months and years after the
waters have all dried up and the bodies of those lost are put to rest. Let's not do the usual human thing and
forget about those still living once the images and the stories have also dried up from the media. Perhaps we
could use this thread to post periodic updates on the treatment and situation of those placed in camps. Is
the calm we now see merely the real "eye of the storm" as far as this entire disaster is concerned?
You have voted Valhall for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have two more votes this month.
spacedoubt posted on 6-9-2005 at 04:09 AM Post Number: 1664294 (post id: 1686187)

No comments on my prisoner question?

I'm really wondering about this..
Has anyone heard anything?
Skadi_the_Evil_Elf posted on 6-9-2005 at 04:38 AM Post Number: 1664334 (post id: 1686227)
That is friggin WEIRD, Val. By the way, thanks for helping people out like this. Its nice to know that Christian
charity is not dead.
The whole story kinda gave me the creeps. But it also shows the massive failure of burocracy. FEMA
rejecting your clothing donations, when they probably wouldnt have enough after sorting through what they
had? Bill O'Reily, who I seldom agree with, made an excellent point about relying on or trusting the
government to help you or do anything for you. Its a farce. FEMA's management of this disaster, plus the
blunders of Homeland security show how top heavy, slow, and a waste of space the government agencies
are. Apart from the military, the helping hand from the average private citizen has been more effective and
better organized. Hell, your church seemed to be doing far more to help the victims/refugees/detainees than
the idiotic feds.
Thanks for sharing these pics and the story though. Im begining to think that stories of FEMA detention
camps and such aint so crazy after all.
mOjOm posted on 6-9-2005 at 04:46 AM Post Number: 1664339 (post id: 1686232)
Does it seem to strange to anyone else that within a matter of days FEMA has leased this whole place, set up
complete communications, security, staff, organized id and housing systems, setup a system of rules which
everyone has already been trained to understand, prepared organized buckets of toys for the kiddies, racks
of clothes, etc. etc. etc...???
I mean it's not like the church leased out the property last month or even last week, yet the paperwork has
all been done and the staff is ready and in place.
For a government agency that didn't even show up until almost a week after the crisis hit, it sure seems a bit
odd that something like this would come together so well so soon.
BTW, what exactly happens in 5 months when the lease is up and obviously these people still have no
homes, no where to go, haven't been in contact with the outside world in almost half a year and have
basically just been held captive under conditions that are similar to a military quarentine facility or POW
camp without the torture???
There weren't any any large "shower rooms" with unfamiliar pipes or exhaust fans attached to them
anywhere to be seen were there???
Nice post Vall!!!

nikelbee posted on 6-9-2005 at 04:52 AM Post Number: 1664344 (post id: 1686237)

All through the aftermath of the hurricane I was thinking about this before Vall's post. My question is this -
what happens after 5 months when those Americans have been de-Americanized so to speak?
No one can say that all they've been through including detaining them so far away from society can be good
for them.
Think about the institutionalization people suffer from in prison and mental hospitals, not to mention camps
of this nature.
Even under the best conditions and with food and shelter and a warm bed, they will be undergoing who
knows what while they are in confinement.
What will happen after?

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Valhall posted on 6-9-2005 @ 05:32 AM

Originally posted by CatHerder

Number 1: the camps were empty and there was not a single disaster victim there - and you
took no photos of any
Correct.
Number 2: everyone going to this camp will have next to no posessions or no posessions at all
That's what we've been told.
Number 3: the police allowed you in,
Correct.
But the police did not tell me the following. The "hosts" did.
and told you that you couldn't leave different types of food or clothing otherwise somebody
sometime might consider that to be unfair (that they didn't get the same "treat" their neighbour
had)
Correct. Only they stated this might cause a riot.

and you couldn't leave food that needed to be cooked so they wouldn't have to worry about
accidental fires burning anything down and causing even more grief for the disaster victims and
FEMA's reputation
No - they did not tell me this. Though I stated "because of fire hazard" in my original article,
they stated FEMA would not allow anyone to use the kitchen facilities in the cabins "due to
liability issues". I believe that's different.
Number 4: there are some ambulances, and EMTs at the "main cabin"- and you took some
photos of them
There is no main cabin. They were located very close to the main gate and to the cabin in which
the soldiers were at.
Number 5: there is a fire truck or two - and you took some photos of them
Very good.
Number 6: staff onsite had cellphone radios and a local satellite tower for communications - and
you took some photos of it
I think I specifically said she did NOT get a pick of the comm tower, didn't I?

Number 7: there are state police at the entrance - and you took photos of their vehicles
As well as soldiers. They were located just inside the main gate.
Well gosh, you sure got me there. This totally sounds like mistreated hostages in an internment
camp. Where are your photos of the barbed wire and minefields?
You're easily gotten, apparently. Why would they need barbed wire and minefields?
You were suprised and shocked that they didn't want to accept your clothes and food donations
even though they've been saying on the TV and radio and websites for a few days that anyone
wanting to donate should "donate money" or volunteer time with the Red Cross or their local
church organization(s)?
This WAS with my "local church organization". The cabin we were stocking was our church's
cabin.
Could it possibly be that you are jumping to conclusions and over-sensationalizing things similar
to what you did with the volcanic activity in Washington state a while back? As I recall you were
"extremely alarmed" yet (as all the scientists said it would) it vented some gas and let off a
minor eruption.
What have I over sensationalized? I told exactly what we saw and exactly what was told us by
the workers at the camp. Do you think I oversensationalized because I called it a detainment
camp? Please provide the appropriate name for a camp which is guarded by state police and the
military, and in which you cannot have visitors, nor can you leave unless you leave on foot - at
least 8 miles from no where in a place you're unfamiliar with - and to which you cannot return if
you do leave.
and perhaps donate money to a disaster charity.
I've already done that.
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FredT posted on 6-9-2005 @ 05:39 AM
Val, a couple of quick questions:
Any evidence of a mobile canteen or anything?
From the pictures and your description its in BF nowhere so bringing in hot food seems like a
waste of resources. God I hope they are not going to stuff them with MRE's
We have 14 days worth as part of opur disaster kit, but my wife and I sampled them and its not
exactly haute cusine.
Any evidence that FEMA is buying up supplies from local stores or is it all being shipped in?
copyright & usage

Originally posted by mOjOm

Does it seem to strange to anyone else that within a matter of days FEMA has leased this whole
place, set up complete communications, security, staff, organized id and housing systems, setup
a system of rules which everyone has already been trained to understand, prepared organized
buckets of toys for the kiddies, racks of clothes, etc. etc. etc...???
All the supplies in all the cabins have been donated by the citizens of Oklahoma. The buckets
full of toys were made up by the church members of the McAlester church. In our cabin there
were similar buckets with special items in them made up for the men who would be staying
there. That's why we were there. To supply the cabin for the occupants. We had hoped to be
there after some of the occupants had arrived so that we could learn individual special needs
from some of them, but they weren't there yet. Since they were to arrive last night some time,
and we were told starting today no one without credentials would be allowed in, I'm glad we got
everything done this weekend.
For a government agency that didn't even show up until almost a week after the crisis hit, it sure
seems a bit odd that something like this would come together so well so soon.
Actually I believe the preparation has been done by the Oklahoma Department of Safety (the
Oklahoma Highway Patrol). And I believe the place is leased by the OHP to be used by FEMA
because that's pretty much how the host said it. He said "you no longer own this cabin, FEMA
does. For the next 5 months." And my mom asked for clarification "You mean they leased it."
And he said, "The Oklahoma highway patrol did - lock, stock and barrel." That's almost verbatim
how he said it. So it appears the state of Oklahoma procured the facility for the purpose of a
FEMA refugee camp.
copyright & usage
Originally posted by FredT
Any evidence of a mobile canteen or anything?
Any evidence that FEMA is buying up supplies from local stores or is it all being shipped in?
As we turned the corner by the row of firetrucks there were at least three 18 wheeler
refrigerated trucks sitting lined up to the right of the intersection. They were SYSCO trucks. I
did not see any signs of a cooking facility set up. But maybe they have commandeered a larger
cabin for this purpose - or maybe even several larger cabins. The camp does not have a central
mess hall facility, so they are either doing it in multiple cabins, or they have something set up
we didn't see.
To clarify, the host told us that FEMA would "deliver"each meal. I don't know if that means to
each cabin, or to a central location. I'm thinking each cabin, because there is no large dining
facility to use.
One more thing. When the issue came up that breakfast cereals couldn't be left because there
would be no milk, we were told that initially FEMA stated that the only snack products that could
be in each cabin would be bread and peanut butter, but apparently there was such an
inundation of donated products by the various churches they backed off that and allowed any
ready-to-eat snacks (chips, cookies, obviously pop-tarts!, etc.).

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TheShroudOfMemphis posted on 6-9-2005 @ 05:55 AM
Very intesting, these could be very rare photos once these places go into action.
I've often said that there doesn't need to be 'barbedwired camps' everywhere, there doesn't
need to be 'train cars' everywhere for a 'camp' to be created because there is such a thing as
'commandeering'.
Why would they spend millions (probable billions the way money flows in this admin) to
maintain a block of cement or a razorwired area that needs maintainance and staff for many
years until it's use, which may not ever happen, when they can simply take what they need,
when they need it?
Maybe the 'razor wire fences' will go up after the camp is filled and communications are cut? It's
pretty easy to assemble a fence and gaurd boundry. They wouldn't need 'mines', they'd have
ground sensors and helicopters with imaging that will spot any 'run aways' no matter how well
they hide or how dark the night is, ever seen 'Cops'?. They collect them and bring them back or
take them to 'another camp'.
This is exactly how you begin a camp system. Like i said before the Hurricane, it will be used as
a Martial Law exercise, promoted as a good thing and for safety but will be equally establishing
precedents which sacrifice more 'liberties & freedoms' and put the population even more under
the governments thumb. This is 9/11 phaze two: Tell them it's for their good because the
alternative could be disaster.
They allowed the situation to develop by delaying response so they could watch the public
demand the military's involvement. They promoted 'looting' to ingrain the idea that in these
situations, law enforcement is your best ally. They even tried to suggest no one could of seen it
coming!
This event will prove invaluable to the maestro's.

I predict next we'll hear of bio-databasing proceedures taking place in refugee camps, just like
what happened in Fallujah as those people returned to what was left of their homes.
There's more to come of this live drill.

copyright & usage
Originally posted by TheShroudOfMemphis
Maybe the 'razor wire fences' will go up after the camp is filled and communications are cut? It's
pretty easy to assemble a fence and gaurd boundry.
I would not go this far.
1) as the inital post shows its pretty isolated so where would you go at any rate?
2) Lets say they turned into Stalag 13. Any civilian flying over or near could see the wire,
fences, towers, the obligatory guards with dogs and snap a picture.
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nikelbee posted on 6-9-2005 @ 06:25 AM
Why are they being imprisoned in the first place?
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amb1063 posted on 6-9-2005 @ 06:30 AM

i'm just curious if this could possibly be a prison camp...........for real prisoners from all the jails
that are no longer functional? i remember seeing video of prisoners sitting on an overpass while
the water was rising.......
just wondering........if they could be moving in all the prisoners that need housing..........and the
OHP and FEMA just didn't want to discuss it with you.
this is an excellent article VALHALL..............very good. thanks for the info. and i'm going to be
really curious to see how this thing plays out!!!
thanks!!
angie
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amb1063 posted on 6-9-2005 @ 06:31 AM
SORRY DOUBLE POST!!
[edit on 6-9-2005 by amb1063]
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Well, that could be the case, angie. But there are reportedly "families" going to be housed at
certain cabins.
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justyc posted on 6-9-2005 @ 06:39 AM

a few thoughts crossed my mind while reading vals excellent thread and im sure i'll have a few
more to add
what will be the consequences of a large amount of desperate, depressed and displaced people
being so cut off from normal life (ie tvs, computers, phones, jobs, shopping, freely being abe to
come & go etc) staying in one of these camps for 5 months? what are they going to be doing in
this camp every single day - sit around the camp fire and sing kumbaya?
there are toys & family cabins, but who is going to be teaching the children?
will they be able to use the phones set up for the 'hosts' use to stay in touch with their families
or will they be denied contact with the outside world?
finally, would you be willing to sneak up in a 'through the woods' way to find a way to view the
camp if you are denied access once the people are in there (& as your church no longer owns its
cabin you will not be able to use 'checking the cabin' as an excuse)
(You have voted Valhall for the Way Above Top Secret award)
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amb1063 posted on 6-9-2005 @ 06:43 AM
Originally posted by Valhall

Well, that could be the case, angie. But there are reportedly "families" going to be housed at
certain cabins.
ohhhh that's right. my bad. sorry val. i remember that because you mentioned the toys.
again............excellent article. i'm going to pass this around to some folks and see what they
make of this.
great job!!
angie

copyright & usage
Originally posted by justyc
what will be the consequences of a large amount of desperate, depressed and displaced people
being so cut off from normal life (ie tvs, computers, phones, jobs, shopping, freely being abe to
come & go etc) staying in one of these camps for 5 months? what are they going to be doing in
this camp every single day - sit around the camp fire and sing kumbaya?
Some cabins will have TV's. Ours, for instance, does not. According to the mentality of FEMA -
this should most likely cause a riot.
We'll work to get our cabin a TV and VCR - I know we have enough VCR movies to last them a
while.
there are toys & family cabins, but who is going to be teaching the children?
EXTREMELY good point. If this is handled right (and I'm over-sensationalizing ), these
children should be enrolled in the Davis school system by the end of the week, and bussed out
and in every day. This will be a measure of how "detained" these people are. If they are going
to be there for 5 months, and seeing as the school year just started about 10 days ago - this
would allow these children a full semester at least.
will they be able to use the phones set up for the 'hosts' use to stay in touch with their families
or will they be denied contact with the outside world?

Don't know. Gotta sawbuck on "no". There is a bank of pay phones at Falls Creek. Guess that's
what the "sum of money" is for.
finally, would you be willing to sneak up in a 'through the woods' way to find a way to view the
camp if you are denied access once the people are in there (& as your church no longer owns its
cabin you will not be able to use 'checking the cabin' as an excuse)
Springer and I are going to stay in close contact with our church's preacher. At this point, I'm
up for anything if this turns out to be the way the "hosts" were describing.
I lived 8 years of my life in that are...that's why I know how High Road got it's name . And I
know that area pretty darned good.
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thematrix posted on 6-9-2005 @ 06:49 AM
Not to mention that in case these were actual places to detain prisoners that lost their prison,
the "hosts" would in no way be civilians and stay in the cabins.
FEMA not accepting certain things to be donated(which in perspective with them also refusing
fuel, water and food in ON) is just a dumbass decision. They should just accept everything and
ship of what they can't use to an international sharity or something, they are plain wasting time
for themselves and the people that are contributing with this.
Then, some people here have objections with Valhall calling this a detention/detainment camp.
The people are said not to be allowed to leave the camp for any reason for at least 5 months.
What is not being allowed to leave a location in the middle of nowhere for 5 months called then
if it isn't detention or detainment?
Valhall, I strongly agree that this is something you should go public with. Just give your account
of what you've seen and sell the pictures to the press (yes I say sell the pictures, so that the
money you get from it can be turned to charity, like that the press at least does something
decent instead of just scavenge the misery of others for top stories).
And the press can choose to publish the story in whatever interpretation they want. You can use
it as a test to see if they twist and turn what you've seen and heard and testify to them, to
whatever FEMA and the goverment wants to be heard by the public or if they relay your story
the way you gave it to them.
Your own and original published story is here on ATS, protected by the ATS content copyrights.
copyright & usage
Zeta_101 posted on 6-9-2005 @ 06:58 AM
Great Article.
Well, all I can say Valhall is that they had an impression of wanting you out of there, if you ask
me ... It's amazing how you took so many photos and they didn't ask why you were taking
them? Of their cars, their personel, etc...
I have a single question though, Why 5 months? It kind of seems too long to let such population
stay there for a while ... I know they may have lost their jobs, houses, infact some of their
loved ones ... but 5 months? Now if they can't talk with the outside world (correct?) and must
live there for 5 months without any word to their relatives that they are indeed there ... it looks
like some sort of secret camp ... hopefully they'll treat them well and we won't hear rumors of
dying refugees because of 'accidents' ... if you get my point.
Anyways ... great article, I'm barely awake though ... it's like 7 am here ...
Peace.
[edit on 6-9-2005 by Zeta_101]
copyright & usage

tm,
I have gone public with it. You apparently don't understand how many eyes view what are on
this board. There is no reason to give this to anybody else. What are you talking about the
grinning drama-whores in mainstream media?
No thanks. We'll keep up with this right here on ATS, but feel free to pass the link if this turns
out the way they are describing.
copyright & usage
Originally posted by Zeta_101
I have a single question though, Why 5 months? It kind of seems too long to let such population
stay there for a while ... I know they may have lost their jobs, houses, infact some of their loved
ones ... but 5 months? Now if they can't talk with the outside world (correct?) and must live
there for 5 months without any word to their relatives that they are indeed there ... it looks like
some sort of secret camp ... hopefully they'll treat them well and we won't hear rumors of dying
refugees because of 'accidents' ... if you get my point.
Okay, as far as I know they will be able to make phone calls. As far as I know, if they have
relatives they want to go live with they can do that. As far as I know. I'm assuming these
things, but this is what the host stated when my son said "you mean they can't leave
here!" (when he was explaining to us that they wouldn't be able to come and go from the camp)
the host replied they could leave, they just couldn't ever come back and then he said "if they
have family they want to go stay with, they can leave, but they can't ever come back".

copyright & usage
Originally posted by thematrix

The people are said not to be allowed to leave the camp for any reason for at least 5 months.
What is not being allowed to leave a location in the middle of nowhere for 5 months called then if
it isn't detention or detainment?
I don't think that was said. They can leave, but cannot come back was what I understood. Now
given the location and the total lack of any personal property this may be more than a trivial
exersize. But if a relative calls me from the camp based on what I understood from the intial
post I could go and pick them up. But they cannot return.
copyright & usage
Lamagraa posted on 6-9-2005 @ 07:16 AM
pffft
well I'd like to think that someone would complain about MREs being inhumane
remeber the prisoners at Guantanamo Bay their eating choice foods because people complained
now if the Refugees or maybe I should call them "Deatainees" will be forced to eat MREs I would
think this is a sader state of affairs then it already is
copyright & usage
Zeta_101 posted on 6-9-2005 @ 07:19 AM
Haha ... Military food ... bleh.
copyright & usage

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<< 1 2 3 4 5 6 >>

Originally posted by FredT
Originally posted by thematrix

The people are said not to be allowed to leave the camp for any reason for at least 5
months.
What is not being allowed to leave a location in the middle of nowhere for 5 months
called then if it isn't detention or detainment?
I don't think that was said. They can leave, but cannot come back was what I understood. Now
given the location and the total lack of any personal property this may be more than a trivial
exersize. But if a relative calls me from the camp based on what I understood from the intial
post I could go and pick them up. But they cannot return.
Right. I want to make this clear (according to what the host said). They can leave. They can't
come back. If they have family/friends that will put them up, the host said they could leave to
go stay with some one...but they can't come back.
Who knows...maybe FEMA will taking them on buses some times some where. It's 25 miles to
the nearest "large town" if they want to go shopping. It's about 70-80 miles to Oklahoma City
which would be the closest "shopping mall".
copyright & usage
thematrix posted on 6-9-2005 @ 07:39 AM

Thanks for clarifying that. I was under the impression they couldn't leave at all.
Lets hope alot of these people have family elsewhere in the US that will take them in.
And yeah Valhall, my comment about the scavengers is the Mainstream press. I'd say milk them
for as much as you can with everything you can and turn the money over to charity.
They are portraying survivors of Katrina as monsters, loosers and vermin.
[edit on 6/9/05 by thematrix]
copyright & usage
wecomeinpeace posted on 6-9-2005 @ 07:48 AM
I have another possible explanation for the way this is being handled, especially the "if you
leave you can't come back" policy. Perhaps FEMA is worried that the refugees will get used to
living in these camps at the expense of the state and will become financial and logistical
burdens indefinitely, so FEMA is ensuring that life in the camps is as unbearable as possible
whilst still within the limits of public acceptability. Then, when people can't stand the isolation,
the lack of entertainment (TV, etc), the lack of milk for Pete's sake, and especially the lack of
independence or opportunity to find work, they will start to leave of their own accord. This then
absolves the Feds of any responsibility since they, on the surface, provided shelter and food,
the rules were made clear, yet the refugees still left of their own free will.
The Detainment Camp theory seems to be somewhat in line with some popular conspiracy
theories, many of which I myself am a proponent, but I think we may need to call out Uncle
Occam with his shaving kit for this one, at least this time. Have to wait and see I guess...

[edit on 2005-9-6 by wecomeinpeace]
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jsobecky posted on 6-9-2005 @ 08:23 AM
Val
Is the area with the cabins enclosed by a fence or otherwise? Or is it possible to just stroll away
from the cabin for a walk through the hills?
Apparently you have been in touch with your church officials, correct? Maybe they can offer
some insight.
What is/are the closest major highway(s) into this area from LA? I'm just wondering if someone
could intercept the convoy and mingle with the evacuees along the way at a rest area or similar.
Get a feel for the type of people being bussed in.
As far as the statements "you can leave but you can't come back", you should try to get your
hands on any hardcopy documents stating as much.
It's a very interesting scenario. It could all add up to nothing, but there are some parts of this
that I'd like to hear more about.
Keep us posted.
copyright & usage
cyberdude78 posted on 6-9-2005 @ 08:36 AM
Well first of all I'd like to give thanks to Valhall. That was one of the most excellent stories I've
ever seen, and I'm glad you took the time to report it. I'm also thankful that they're people like
who're willing to do so much for disaster victims.
But on the other hand I find this story disturbing, very very disturbing. Something is definatly
wrong here, I have to admit I've never heard of anything quite like this. This seems almost
inhumane, even considering the circumstances. However I have to ask, why on earth would
they do such a thing. Nearest I can tell it seems a bit controllative, depsite the fact that these
aren't very happy people. I have to say, I smell a conspiracy, but even this one puzzles me to
no end.
copyright & usage
Church official, yes. My father is a deacon of the church. Springer will contact the preacher
today to follow up after my visit and see what he has been told about access.
As far as the route - I-35 up to the Highway 77 - Turner Falls/Davis, Oklahoma exit.
The camp is approximately 160 acres. Treat it as a circle for all intents and purposes. 2/3 of
that circle is fenced, the back 1/3 is closed off by mountains. If you decide to leave the camp
over the mountains you would be hiking through fairly rugged country. But if they find their way
to Devil's Bathtub (it's up in the mountains and a favorite "trek" for the teenagers who go to
summer camp), they could follow the creek bed and end up finding their way to the interstate.
That would be quite a trek, especially if you had kiddos with you.
copyright & usage
Originally posted by jsobecky

What is/are the closest major highway(s) into this area from LA? I'm just wondering if someone
could intercept the convoy and mingle with the evacuees along the way at a rest area or similar.
Get a feel for the type of people being bussed in.
Valhall mentioned that it was about 70 miles to Oklahoma City If I recall so here are the
Directions from NOLA to Oklahoma City or about 720 miles. I do not know if the took a
direct route or came from soem FEMA staging area or even from Texas
copyright & usage

Valhall, I wonder if this is the small amount of money they were talking about?
Patrick Rhode, deputy director of the Federal Emergency Management Agency, said evacuees
would receive debit cards so that they could begin buying necessary personal items. He said the
agency was going from shelter to shelter to make sure that evacuees received cards quickly and
that the paperwork usually required would be reduced or eliminated.
Cash Cards
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Fred,
We have been told that the refugees coming to this camp are coming straight from some where
in Louisiana.
Second issue - i'd damned sure hope they aren't going to make these people pay for personal
items when we were told yesterday there has been so much materials donated by the members
of churches of Oklahoma that FEMA has had to rent two warehouses, one in Ardmore,
Oklahoma, and one in Davis, Oklahoma to house the stuff.
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worldwatcher posted on 6-9-2005 @ 08:47 AM
I'm a speechless.
This Oklahoma place is in the United States of America isn't it?
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Nerdling posted on 6-9-2005 @ 08:53 AM

Originally posted by worldwatcher

I'm a speechless.
This Oklahoma place is in the United States of America isn't it?
I'm uhh... gonna have to call BASE and check that one uhh out.
uhh.
*drags knuckles*
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Follow up information to the original post. Information I believe needs to be included.
First about the church cabins. The church cabins are used for one or two weeks in the summer
by the church that owns them. There's usually a one-week pre-teen camp in June, and then the
youth camp (high school kids) runs July until right before school starts. Each church usually
takes their youth group for one week. Larger churches may have so many youth in their church
they have to go multiple weeks. In order to defray the cost of maintaining the facility through-
out the year, churches also rent their cabins to other churches who can't afford to build and
maintain a permanent cabin. The rental costs differ from cabin to cabin and church to church.
But probably average out to around $1000/week...just to give you an idea.
The churches who own these cabins are NOT taking rent for them from FEMA. So that needs to
be made clear. I have no idea if the Southern Baptist convention (which owns the overall
facility) is charging some payment for the use or not. But the individual churches are not.
When the host told us that they had leased the facilities "lock, stock and barrel" he stated that
they (being FEMA/OHP) would be taking over all utility payments and had hired their own
carpenter, electrician, and plumbing contractors who would be taking care of all maintenance
issues and facilities up-keep during the 5 months.

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mrsdudara posted on 6-9-2005 @ 09:07 AM
This is outragous!!!! I am emailing this story to everyone I know. I am tempted to email this
link to the KCStar if it is ok with you val. This is wrong on so many levels!!!!!! These poor
people have been through enough. They are taking away all of their freedoms. This is
unAmerican and should not be allowed. I understand the whole riot thing, but no one is allowed
to take away another persons freedoms when they have commited no crime. EVER. If they shuv
thousands of people together and take away all their freedoms, you will have a riot. That is all
there is to it.
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Originally posted by mrsdudara

They are taking away all of their freedoms. This is unAmerican and should not be allowed.
You did read the inital post right and the followon discussion right? These people can leave
anytime.
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Originally posted by mrsdudara

This is outragous!!!! I am emailing this story to everyone I know. I am tempted to email this link
to the KCStar if it is ok with you val. This is wrong on so many levels!!!!!! These poor people
have been through enough. They are taking away all of their freedoms. This is unAmerican and
should not be allowed. I understand the whole riot thing, but no one is allowed to take away
another persons freedoms when they have commited no crime. EVER. If they shuv thousands of
people together and take away all their freedoms, you will have a riot. That is all there is to it.
And there's my concern. Their claims of "riot" are self-fulfilling prophecies because of the way
they are going into this, because of the way they are looking at these people. The day this riot
breaks out we'll get all the satellite trucks in the Arbuckle Mountains and FEMA heads and
National Guard talking about the bad people who turned on their fellow man. When in fact it will
be because they went ape-# from isolation and lack of stimulation and being placed in a
blackmail situation of the only way they can get help is to stay in this encampment.
Why wouldn't I want people to hear this. If this gets out early enough then we'll get a sound bit
from FEMA stating these are outrageous claims (and then hopefully behind the scenes they'll
have to change things to make that statement true)...I don't care, as long as they change the
situation for the better! My measure at this point is the children. If they are enrolled in the
nearest public school in short order, I'll feel better about this.
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worldwatcher posted on 6-9-2005 @ 09:21 AM
Yeah leave and not come back... Ummm how exactly are they supposed to be integrated back
into society and rebuild their lives if they don't have the the option of a place to stay while they
look for work or permanent homes. I don't think there are going to be many options available to
anyone in the hills of Oklahoma.
This is a way to keep people dependent on the "system" even those willing to get out are now
forced to be on the system until FEMA decides otherwise.
I think it's very wrong to treat all the victims of Katrina and namely the economically poor
people as criminals. This camp mentality is setting itself up for exactly that. This is very sad.
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Please do not get me wrong here. The camp as described is not something I would want to
place my family in for any length of time. But:
1) They can leave if they want.

2) I would chose this over say an outside tent city or something else
3) The security seems a bit overkill and Valhalls point above is well taken.
4) Yes they do need to rebuild thier lives, but it will take time if they want to go back, and they
will need time to figure out thier next step. Any relocation camp anywhere would face this same
problem
I think the key as Valhall pointed out is the children. I would have never thought of that angle.
Valhall how many kids could the local district resonably absorb without dramatical effecting
student teacher ratios or overcrowding the classrooms????
[edit on 9/6/05 by FredT]
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and there you have hit the nail on the head Val. OF COURSE there will be riots if they are
'looked after' by uniforms, guns and no compassion control systems rather than people like
yourself who actually want to help. same as people will eventually loot when left without food or
water.
i think for now all we can do is hold our breath and watch very closely what happens in this
camp, because im wondering a lot of 'what ifs' at the moment... like what if val and her family
want to go and just 'be there' to listen to the people and hear their stories and see if there is
any way they can be of assistance to the people as they are on the 'outside'. i know if i were in
this situation i would surely appreciate that type of contact. if val gets refused entry for simply
caring enough to want to help, does that mean that they are prisoners (but real prisoners get
visiting rights) even though they are 'free' to leave??

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Major Update:
Springer just spoke with the preacher of our church. This is what he has been told. FEMA has
stated until they get these people "in the system", which means on welfare/medicaid,
unemployment, etc. and until they have worked through the health issues (the preacher was
told there are three outbreaks of dysentary in the group of people coming to this camp) no one
will be able to come in the camp and no one will be able to leave. Our preacher had had an offer
from one man to come in and wire our cabin with satellite so that it could have TV reception.
FEMA told him he could not come in due to health concerns.
The preacher stated that when the southern Baptist convention "donated" (I'm assuming that
means they are taking no monies) the camp to FEMA for this purpose they had to sign over
complete control. The preacher said we have no say in how things go from that point on. FEMA
then "hired" (I guess) the OHP for "security purposes".
The preacher also had asked about the children and he was told that once the health concerns
were under control the children would be attending school. But it his understanding this school
will be inside the camp.
All of this makes sense to me and Springer. But I do question why taking sick people into a
wilderness setting, in a confined area with 5000 people, is deemed a more appropriate action
than taking them to hospitals. The camp is at least a 30 minute drive to the closest adequate
hospital. The question becomes - how long will it take to get the health issues under control?
Maybe FredT or some one can address that question.
A man in this area who owns a machine shop has already informed the preacher that if anybody
in the camp has machining capabilities, he has two houses he owns available for them to move
into and jobs for them.
CORRECTION: There are RUMORS of three dysentary outbreaks. The reason given for the lock-
down is so they can figure out who is sick and who is not. That makes sense.

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St Udio posted on 6-9-2005 @ 09:47 AM
Originally posted by cyberdude78
But on the other hand I find this story disturbing, very very disturbing. Something is definatly
wrong here, I have to admit I've never heard of anything quite like this. This seems almost
inhumane, even considering the circumstances. However I have to ask, why on earth would they
do such a thing. Nearest I can tell it seems a bit controllative, depsite the fact that these aren't
very happy people. I have to say, I smell a conspiracy, but even this one puzzles me to no end.
then you might want to backtrack to Page 2 in this thread,

see the reply from TheShroudOfMemphis, TheShroud grasps the larger plots being played out
on the displaced poverty-class from New Orleans.
...........
take note, the group of forced-evacuation people are being called
Refugees...this subtile title defines the group rescued by the Feds,
at the belated request of the Gov. & Mayor, as being dispossessed of
any & all material possessions or resources and property <-
as more internet info gets researched and published...we are getting

some clues & hints that this New Orleans flooding & forced evacuation
was 'helped to happen'...as the Gov't and Developers and Investors
desired the lowland areas which were populated by the perpetual-poverty-class of New Orleans.
The Gov. & Mayor, seen thru the 'price' of the Feds rescue & evacuation
Plan...there was probably lots of negotiating, but the Gov & Mayor
had to finally relent...for the sake of preserving lives by essentially giving
up the ghetto residents tenuious 'property rights' & right-to-sue, etc
ultimately, the refugee class, would be sent to 'Displaced Person Camps'

as the criminal elements among those evacuated and sent to diverse cities...were 'sifted out'
from the temporary shelter system by the local
authorities,...which left only the less volitile people, eligible to be transferred to the longer-term

DP Camps (the 2005 version of Levittown?)
as time goes by, and the city is revived, the voluntary evacuees (mostly
middle class people) will be allowed to return....and the forced evacuees
(mostly poverty class people) will become a more or less, semi permanent
DisplacedPersons class living in camps/villages for which they 'traded'
their old property rights for.
another NWO, slick-willy type of ploy, eh
take-it, or leave-it, cyberdude78

who knows what evils lurk in the hearts of men
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picard_is_actually_a_grey posted on 6-9-2005 @ 10:07 AM

Thanks for posting this Valhall, the update is even more disconcerting- sounds like they wont
be able to leave period regardless whether they want to with this 'health problem' issue.
Concentration camps started off like this.
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[All of this makes sense to me and Springer. But I do question why taking sick people into a
wilderness setting, in a confined area with 5000 people, is deemed a more appropriate action
than taking them to hospitals. The camp is at least a 30 minute drive to the closest adequate
hospital. The question becomes - how long will it take to get the health issues under control?
Maybe FredT or some one can address that question.
Okay had to do a bit of digging but the quaranteen for dysentary seems a bit iffy.
I pulled our Infectious disease doc out of rounds for a few questions:
According to him, Dysentary is a catch all for diarreal like illnesses. The culprit is usualy either
amebiasis, giardia, or shigella. The first type has an incubation period of a few days to several
months or years, Giardia has a incubation period of 1-4 weeks, and shigella is 1-7 days.
The first two are treated with Flagyl, the shigella is treated with an atibiotic specific to gram
neagtive bacilli (ampicillin, ceftriaxone. or cipro depending on type isolated) Depending on the
severity of the infection oral doses can be given.
Each one has variations that can be better or worse than others depending on the sub type of
the infective agent.
However, the ID doc was perplexed about keeping them isolated for this reason. He asked
specificaly if the facility they are in has hot running water, sanitary systems in place, and soap.
Handwashing is the key to stopping the spread. If so there really is no need to isolate them.
He and I also question the location of the facility. From a pediatric standpoint little ones can
dehydrate pretty rapidly. Did you see anything that indicated they were setting up an infirmary
Val? YOu need a nurse to dispence medication and that is beyond the scope of practice for what
looked like EMT's and Paramedics in your pictures. SO if someone does get sick they will have
to get them out of there down those windy roads to the local hospital. ALot of these people are
already symptomatic and why would you lump them in with clean or unknown people unless
they were families?
Now if they are worried about Cholera thats a whole different ball game. Maybe they want to
avaid a general panic and have stuck the dysentary lable on them?
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But fred again, cholera is a non issue too, as long as they have sanitation its a non issue. The
update from valhall is really disturbing, i mean jesus is this really the USA??
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All you need to contain Dysentery is good sanitary conditions and hygiene. Thats why it's
largely wiped out.

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Originally posted by picard_is_actually_a_grey

But fred again, cholera is a non issue too, as long as they have sanitation its a non issue. The
update from valhall is really disturbing, i mean jesus is this really the USA??
Cholera is much worse, and has a more rapid onset however with an incubation period of a few
hours to 5 days 1-3 is the average and its effects can be far worse. Cholera is more of a
contaminated water issue than a sanitaition one.
Edit: Cipro is the drug of choice among others
Edit II: if contact is suspected, profalaxis can be given with tetracycline (THere are more, but I
usualy only put up the ones people will regognize) I can give the rest if people are interested.
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Exactly, its caused by contaminated water containing the feces of suffers, hence if they have
sanitation theres absolutely no risk of catching it. Also this is absolutely no reason why they
shouldn't allow people in to these camps or the 'refugees' out.
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clearmind posted on 6-9-2005 @ 10:46 AM

exellent as usuall Val.
no matter what your take on this 'camp' situation..there does seem to be an ominous
overtone...
what a secluded place....i wonder who/what type of people will be sent there? just random
groups...or groups/individuals that 'they' think should be more 'isolated'...hmmmmmm
and by putting them into 'the system', i assume that the 'refugees' will be bused to other cities
in order to find/help find/ employment/housing? i assume there are not enough jobs in the local
towns to employ and house all the 'refugees' on a permanent basis.
a live practice for something bigger???
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Thanks guys for setting me straight on the health issues. We're going to stay on top of this.
I have another questions, but related. When the mayor of Houston offered up the Astrodome
he made the statement (and I paraphrase) that they may be moving to similar facility as the
Superdome, but would now be free to come and go as they please.
Some one has told me that they have heard the refugees (by the way, did you guys see that
mainstream media gave in to Jackson's ludicrous whines and are now using "evacuees"?) can
not come and go from the Astrodome. Is this true?
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WTF?
www.kfor.com...
The camp is owned and operated by the Southern Baptist Convention of Oklahoma. The
American Red Cross is working with Baptist officials to oversee sheltering needs at the
camp.
The Salvation Army will provide clothing.
The lady at the gas pumps told my daughter the Red Cross was not going to allow people to
bring in supplies.
We get there and FEMA and OHP are in charge.
Our preacher confirms FEMA and OHP are in charge.
The Red Cross is claiming to be in charge.
The White House has urged us to contribute to the Red Cross.
Does Red Cross = FEMA?
P.S. And why is the Salvation Army claiming to be providing clothing when FEMA said they had
too much to go through and wouldn't take anymore. Did Salvation Army decide to plant a claim
on all of those contributions by citizens so they could toot a horn?
what the heck is going on here???
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ignorant_ape posted on 6-9-2005 @ 11:56 AM

what makes you so sure the " lil old lady at the gas station " is correctly informed ????????
much of your supposition depends on her being correct .
i dont mean to insinuate she is lying or senile ,
just not in possesion of correct uptodate data - comeone now , she is hardly being briefed by "
top men "
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Originally posted by ignorant_ape

what makes you so sure the " lil old lady at the gas station " is correctly informed ????????much
of your supposition depends on her being correct .
i dont mean to insinuate she is lying or senile ,
just not in possesion of correct uptodate data - comeone now , she is hardly being briefed by "
top men "
NO! Stop the madness! I don't think anything about the little old lady at the gas station other
than she heard that some where, and I do believe she heard wrong. Please see the news article
above that states "the Red Cross is establishing shelter needs" along with the southern Baptish
convention. Hello! The SBC has no control over the camp anymore and FEMA/OHP is in charge.
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Mystery_Lady posted on 6-9-2005 @ 12:03 PM

I would believe that. They even had a lock down in the superdome. No one could leave. That
would be very bad if someone inside was able to contact friends or family, and was able to
move out.
Your story is very creepy and sending chills up and down my spine. It doesn't make sense to
me that they have a lock down at the church's camp site. If they are worried about diseases,
why are they not checked out by a doctor or hospital first before placing them in the cabins.
Only two rations of food really sounds like a nightmare to me, especially when dietiticians say
that everyone should have at least three good meals a day. Living in such close quarters with
strangers for such a long time will cause problems.
I'm sorry it sounds and looked too much like a temperorary concentration camp. One of the
things they did with real concentration camps is make things look good on the outside, and
make it look as if it is not as bad as it really was. You were able to go in and see the beds, the
toys, and some of the preperations. I'll bet you it will be much different when the people get in
there.
I don't like the idea of the kids being put through school inside of this camp. This is a serious
isolation issue with a health excuse. I'm sure if things really do get bad, that they will not want
the kids to say anything in the regular school systems. I wouldn't be suprised if you and even
Springer had a very tough time speaking with any of the people even after 4 1/2 months is
over.
They could be lying about letting the people leave the camp. They could site the health issue
the entire time they are there. People would just say it is their incompentance again, or is it?
Will they possibly let people go back to their families in the early stages.
Why only five months? Where are they going to take them after five months? Supposedly it is
going to take 9 months just for the clean up, and more like years before anyone can really
move back in and have any type of life.
Or do they feel that would be enough time for the American people to forget about the NO
victims. We helped them, gave them a place to stay, gave them some food, and now it is time
to move on to something else. Those who have friends and family could have moved back out
in society in the early stages. What they would have left is forgotten, dependant people. What
will they do with these people?
If they have the large facilities that conspirists believe they do, they could easily move these

forgotten people to one of those facilities and do who knows what to them.
Yes, this is frightening. It will help for us not to forget about these people in the months to
come. FEMA could also use excuse after excuse after excuse to keep these people detained for
no reason waiting for us to forget about them entirely. They could even tell outside family
members that those people are dead. The government has already been caught in many lies
and scandles over the years. I fear this may be their biggest attempt yet.
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ignorant_ape posted on 6-9-2005 @ 12:39 PM
VALHALL :
situations change , just because the red cross / sbc STARTED an relief opeation does not mean
theat they have sole dibs
i strongly susspect that FEMA etc is now better suited to provifde long term aid
as for the 5 month " detainment " thing . that sounds like worse BS
have none of these " detainees " pree booked holidays , convention attendences
etc ?????????????
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frayed1 posted on 6-9-2005 @ 12:41 PM
I have another questions, but related. When the mayor of Houston offered up the Astrodome he
made the statement (and I paraphrase) that they may be moving to similar facility as the
Superdome, but would now be free to come and go as they please.
Some one has told me that they have heard the refugees (by the way, did you guys see that
mainstream media gave in to Jackson's ludicrous whines and are now using "evacuees"?) can
not come and go from the Astrodome. Is this true?

Monday evening, there was an interview with several of the women that were staying in the
astrodome. One was very up beat about Houston, and said she would be staying and getting a
job in her line of work, CNA ( certified nursing assistant), and bringing the rest of her family to
join her. She was shown on a city bus, going 'site seeing'. Another woman had already gone to
work at the local Walmart ( Walmart has apparently said any of their NO employees will be put
to work in a Walmart where ever they are relocated to. )
I had the impression these ladies were still staying at the dome, just leaving during the day. It
was mentioned that those sent to the dome were given pink armbands, and that was how they
got back in after leaving during the day.....showing the armbands.
It was also mentioned that the people that originally came to the astodome would be relocated
out of there, and then others were going to be brought in, it was a temp staging area. ( Sorry
no links, but I think this was on CNN)
My daughter was telling me this weekend, that her college (W Ga) has a dorm that was being
renovated, (so therefore no students were lined up to board there this semester) and that the
college had opened that dorm to evacuees from the gulf area. Some had already arrived when
she came home on Friday. I don't know whether these evacuees will be just college kids, or a
cross section of the population. ( I have been getting a bag of clothing together for her to take
back next week, but I too may find that they are also no longer accepting clothes.)
BTW, another great post Val!....and me all out of WAB's....there's been so many already this
mo.
[edit on 6-9-2005 by frayed1]

to change superdome to astrodome, my bad.
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Gools posted on 6-9-2005 @ 12:45 PM

Amazing Val.
I just finished reading this thread.
I'm feeling a little sick.
The prisoner explanation is the only thing that would make sense at this point.
FEMA has been absent in the relief effort because they have been busy activating their "secret
camp" plan. Now we know what they spent $500,000/day on.
...three 18 wheeler refrigerated trucks sitting lined up to the right of the intersection. They were
SYSCO trucks.
Command and control?
I want to know more about these trucks.
They are not accepting food except "snacks for the boys"?
They are not accepting clothes for 5,000? Maybe they've got nice orange jumpsuits for
everyone.
Since nobody can come and go without "credentials" the only traffic we will see is hot meals
being delivered in trucks?
I want to know more about those trucks.
Can someone monitor the traffic in and out of that place?
How many more of these internment camps for the poor are being set up around the country? I
urge everyone who has heard of shelter being provided locally go "check out the digs"! NOW!
Before it's too late!
If I had just lost everything and was bussed into isolation surrounded by security I'd definitely
start freaking out... which... you know... could lead to a riot and a bullet to the head.
.

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Originally posted by Gools
...three 18 wheeler refrigerated trucks sitting lined up to the right of the intersection.
They were SYSCO trucks.
Command and control?
I want to know more about these trucks.
Generally SYSCO would be food delivery trucks, like those that supply restaurants and
cafeterias.......if my memory serves. While Sysco ( not all caps) is a software company?? Do
the google thing, it shows both.
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nikelbee posted on 6-9-2005 @ 12:59 PM

Here is a simple basic plan for FEMA - split the $500 (add zeros) they are getting per day and
disperse evenly between the NOLA survivors - it will be cheaper in the end AND enable them to
get on with their lives somewhere new.
I know - it is stupid and naive but no more so than what they are doing now.
The psychological and emotional damage this is going to have on victims will be too big a price
to pay and will splinter any remaining national pride and identity.
Can't the Feds see that??
[edit on 6-9-2005 by nikelbee]
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HowardRoark posted on 6-9-2005 @ 01:01 PM
Valhal, First I would like to commend you and your church for selflessly donating the use of
your cabins for this. Unfortunately, people being people, I doubt that this will be repaid in kind.
I strongly suspect that is why they are not being allowed to use the kitchens, as I’m sure that
the lease agreement requires FEMA, or the State Police to repair any damage and wear and
tear that will occur over the next 5 months.
As to the issue of leaving. To me that sounds as if they would not be allowed to move out, then
move back in. Locations like that being at a premium, if you move out, someone will be their to
move in right after you. I highly doubt that that means that they would not be allowed to make
trips into town. In fact, I would imagine that once things settle down a bit, people would be
allowed to come and go with some limits. Those limits would be dependent on the amount of
liability that would be present.
Some of these people may be under a great deal of emotional stress. As it is, he government
would be liable to take reasonable precautions to protect those people and others from harm.
Also, I imagine that some sort of communication/ telephone system will be set up eventually.
The bureaocracy will demand it if nothing else.

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Valhall posted on 6-9-2005 @ 01:08 PM
Originally posted by frayed1
It was also mentioned that the people that originally came to the superdome would be relocated
out of there, and then others were going to be brought in, it was a temp staging area. ( Sorry
no links, but I think this was on CNN)
frayed,
Thanks for the good news from Houston. That is what I had heard up until today. This is
what I am hoping about the Oklahoma situation. I'm hoping that this "lock-down" is very
temporary and is, in fact, just to get through the "processing" stage and that the people will
then be free to come and go just like those at the Astrodome. They won't have as much
freedom as the Houston people even if they are given the ability to leave and come back,
simply because of where they are and lack of transportation modes. I'm hoping FEMA will
provide transportation for people who want to go apply for jobs, etc. I also hope to find out that
this camp is just a temporary staging area as you have described the Astrodome. I would like
to hear that these people (after this "processing" thingy is over) are beginning to be moved to
more metropolitcan areas where they can have closer to single family existence and such.
Like I said earlier. All we have to do is give it a week - 2 tops - and the "processing" should be
to the point the people can start leaving and returning.
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Originally posted by Gools
If I had just lost everything and was bussed into isolation surrounded by security I'd definitely
start freaking out... which... you know... could lead to a riot and a bullet to the head.
.
Here are the two things that bothered me the most yesterday. The attitude that the people who
were coming didn't have the morals to handle finding out the cabin down the street was getting
a bit better grub than them without breaking out into camp-burning riots...
and the fact that the military has taken the first cabin in after you come through the main gate.
I'm not real sure why the military has to be there at all to be quite honest, but why did they
plant them as the first thing for these people to see when they drive through the front gate?
That thought makes me sad.
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Opus posted on 6-9-2005 @ 01:15 PM

Seems like a dress rehearsal for things to come. Thanks a huge for the info and pics.
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Originally posted by HowardRoark

Valhal, First I would like to commend you and your church for selflessly donating the use of your
cabins for this. Unfortunately, people being people, I doubt that this will be repaid in kind. I
strongly suspect that is why they are not being allowed to use the kitchens, as I’m sure that the
lease agreement requires FEMA, or the State Police to repair any damage and wear and tear that
will occur over the next 5 months.
Hi Howard, The cooking thing doesn't bother me that much, because I can see that it could lead
to new big bold headlines. It's the fact they can't use the kitchen at all basically. They can make
their own coffee (wow!), but they can't even have milk for cereal. We can't even bring them
cold-cuts and cheese for sandwiches. That's a bit extreme. Concerning the potential for
damage, I can only speak for the members of our church I have visited with. We knew full-well
going in that you'll "get all kinds" when you're trying to help a large mass of people and that
there's always the possibility of getting some one who has no regard for some else's property.
Because, as my daughter so eloquently put it when the "bad people" comment was made last
evening - there's SOME "bad people" everywhere...you always have some "bad people". Quite
frankly the comment concerning vandalism or such was that we know we're doing the right
thing...everything will be okay - even if we have to rebuild the darned thing.
As to the issue of leaving. To me that sounds as if they would not be allowed to move out, then
move back in. Locations like that being at a premium, if you move out, someone will be their to
move in right after you. I highly doubt that that means that they would not be allowed to make
trips into town. In fact, I would imagine that once things settle down a bit, people would be
allowed to come and go with some limits. Those limits would be dependent on the amount of
liability that would be present.

Okay - just want to make clear on this. They cannot leave and come back - for 5 minutes, 10
minutes or 1/2 day. And that's confirmed too many ways now. The question is now - is this an
extremely short-term situation? (this processing thingy). If so, I have no problem with that.
That's what we'll have to wait out.
Also, I imagine that some sort of communication/ telephone system will be set up eventually.
The bureaocracy will demand it if nothing else.
The kfor.com article above stated phone service is being established. But then again, they said
the Red Cross and the SBC is setting up the shelter needs and the Salvation Army is supplying
clothes...
so I wouldn't try to bank on that in Denver, just yet.
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darkelf posted on 6-9-2005 @ 01:33 PM

Vallhall, excellent post!
No one can come in, no one cane come out. Sounds like medical quarantine to me. Last
Tuesday or Wednessday I saw a report of the prisoners being evacuated to prisons outside of
NOLA. So medical quarantine sounds closed to the truth.
I've lived in OK during the winter and I'm curious how well these people are prepared for winter
conditions in summer camps. What is going to happen when it starts snowing? These people are
going to need coats, and other cold weather clothing. Are these cabins equipped with heater,
etc?
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SourGrapes posted on 6-9-2005 @ 01:36 PM
Originally posted by darkelf

Vallhall, excellent post!
No one can come in, no one cane come out. Sounds like medical quarantine to me. Last Tuesday
or Wednessday I saw a report of the prisoners being evacuated to prisons outside of NOLA. So
medical quarantine sounds closed to the truth.
etc?
You brought up a great point, elf! Could all of this security be for 'medical' quarantine? Do you
suppose they may be watching for anything to develop, if anything were to develop, from all of
this?
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BaastetNoir posted on 6-9-2005 @ 01:37 PM

The irony is , those cabins are from "christians Churches", and they will probably be used to
"gather" Christians in the future....that is if the NWO is really comming...
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CatHerder posted on 6-9-2005 @ 01:38 PM
Yes, that would make total sense. With the amount of crap (literally) and chemicals people were
wading around in it would not be suprising at all that there is a real threat of disease and a true
desire to keep anyone exposed contained until it can be sorted out and taken care of. There's
no sense exposing a thousand people (Joe Public) when there are great options like your
pseudo-isolated camp to move people to temporarily.
It's still a good idea to keep track of how things play about before reserving judgement. Perhaps
"quarantine camp" would be a better term than "detainment camp"?
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Originally posted by darkelf
etc?
Yep! They will have heaters. Most have central heat and air and I'm sure the kind folks at FEMA
- oops I mean the Red Cross are making sure they get cabins equipped with such. And just as
soon as the Salvation Army gets through distributing the amphitheater full of Oklahoma citizen-
donated clothing they claim they're donating...I'll try to get these 6 bags of clothes I'm running
around with turned in. God knows we need to keep these massive-money-munching charities
looking good! (We've got a whole bag of winter clothes in ours and as the season changes I'm
sure people - oops, I mean the Salvation Army - will start getting them warmer clothes. :up
I may have to rent a helicopter and get my bubba to fly me over and do drops. (j/k - kinda)
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jsobecky posted on 6-9-2005 @ 02:00 PM
They must be planning for an outbreak of sickness. I just got this in my CNN alerts inbox:
-- New Orleans flood waters contaminated with e. coli, official in office of Mayor Ray
Nagin tells CNN.
I'm not an MD so I don't know the ramifications of e.coli.
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I highly doubt that that means that they would not be allowed to make trips into town.
If they are not allowed to go to church, I seriously doubt they will be allowed to go to town.
After all they are being quarteened for "health reasons". I don't understand why they are saying
to donate cash cards if these people are not allowed to leave the area they are assigned to. It
just doesn't make sense to me.
I'm sure smokers will not be allowed to smoke either. Of course they will not be allowed any
type of strong drinks. There may be also some drug users in the mix. They are probablly also
preparing for some people to have some serious withdraw issues. But that still isn't any reason
to perscute anyone with the conditions that have been mentioned.
Only two meals a day I'm sure they will be rationed to the minimum that a person can
survive on hopefully. You know those extremely small portions of food that labels say is for one
serving.
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AgentSmith posted on 6-9-2005 @ 02:20 PM
It's a very good post, but there is one key point that should be remembered:
* These people are lucky even to be alive
Now it may seem harsh, but everything has to be split fairly and equally, no-one must seem to
be getting more than anyone else or things will turn ugly. This has already been shown in the
events of the past week and anyone that can't see this, I'm sorry to say, is naive beyond belief.
It isn't permanent and it isn't ideal but all the points that I read in the original post are valid, if
you don't like the things like not being able to cook in the cabins in case a fire starts, you
should have been more careful about nurturing a society that encourages lawsuits and suing.
Surely even just by looking at recent events people can see the outcome of the slightest bit of
favouritism or what happens if someone seems to have one more can of beans then someone

else. The human race can be very ugly at times, all of us. Maybe you should watch Spielberg's
War of the Worlds, I'm sorry to say it but the portrayal of how people behave was at least
accurate or maybe even subdued.
And they are not prisoners, in your own words they said :
The occupants of the camp cannot leave the camp for any reason. If they leave the camp
they may never return. They will be issued FEMA identification cards and "a sum of money"
and they will remain within the camp for the next 5 months.
I changed the highlighting but the point is they can leave, they just can't return.
Understandably, as they may bring in 'luxery' goods which can start a riot.
It a situation like this it's no holiday camp, limited resources have to be stretched and everyone
has to be treated equally. It may seem mad to turn away a box of mars bars, but who do you
give them to? Who gets them and who doesn't.. How do you stop some people being jealous?
Who gets them instead? They can't be realistically divided up in any way...
There are going tobe some nasty people in the mix, you know the same ones shooting, raping,
looting... Just maybe the more subtle ones..
It's harsh, but it's life..
EDIT:
Sorry, adding after reading what the guy after me said:
I do admire your dedication and your determination to help, if there were more people like you
then maybe the world would be a better place. It's good to know that there are people that can
actually be bothered to get of their asses and go out there and do something, instead of just
whining about it all the time like a lot of people..
keep it up..
[edit on 6-9-2005 by AgentSmith]

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Rise and Fall posted on 6-9-2005 @ 02:21 PM
*first post*
I've lurked for longer than I'd like to admit, don't know why I never joined, but this disaster has
got me going. Thank you Valhall for all of your interesting posts that I've followed for ages, and
thank you and your family for trying to help in this time of chaos. The situation you describe is
frightening, and I hope that your story reaches people nationwide- people have no idea what
kind of terrible things are happening in America.
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FredT posted on 6-9-2005 @ 02:23 PM
Refuges San Jose and San Francisco Bound
Just came over the radio and I do not have a link. But they interviewed the head of San Jose's
emergency prep department and she indicated that the first 100 they were expecting would be
put up in hotels. Did not indicate where the funding was comming from.
There are major sports arenas that could be used for this purpose like many other cities. SO
either they do not expect many or they are taking a differnet approach. No camp like setting for
them.
They will have to let a minister in on Sudays. Especially if they show up with a member of the
press (Ahem ATSNN reporter would be best) Hint Hint
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Hal9000 posted on 6-9-2005 @ 02:31 PM

Valhal, I would also like to applaud you and your families efforts.
It sounds to me that this could be used as an isolation camp, either for medical (which would
explain all the medical equipment) or a camp for troublemakers when they are found. This does
not sound like a good location for evacuees that want to relocate, because they will not be able
to get around.
But I would still expect a higher standard of living for anyone. I would also expect that these
people would not be so condescending toward people that are trying to help. Did any of them
even thank you?
I hope stories like these don't keep people from helping out.
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Spiderj posted on 6-9-2005 @ 02:39 PM
Only two rations of food really sounds like a nightmare to me, especially when dietiticians say
that everyone should have at least three good meals a day. Living in such close quarters with
strangers for such a long time will cause problems
I'm glad I'm not the only one who wanted to bring this up. Don't get me wrong, I sometimes
only have two meals a day but I'm an adult and sometimes my schedule doesn't allow for three
squares.
But the thought of feeding growing children only two meals a day with the possiblity of a
poptart snack in between seems fairly disturbing to me, or perhaps I'm seeing things that aren't
there, but I believe even prisoners (murderers and rapists and the like) get three squares a day
in prison. Someone also mentioned guantanomo, the thought that prisoners are being fed better
than american children I find a bit disturbing.
This of course takes nothing away from the pop tart, possibly one of the best snack type
inventions of all time, especially them frosted strawberry ones.
I also agree with most here that this truly is a superb thread Valhall, excellent work.
I would like to say that I also understand the hosts fear of riots but I also fear for the detainees
of this camp, out in the middle of nowhere these "hosts" are going to be giving a lot of authority
in the little bubble universe they've created and I think there are going to be abuses that will
boggle the mind.
IMO as always.
The whole thing sounds like an old time batch consignment to me but perhaps I'm just being
paranoid.
Again, Valhall nice work...though your daughter should probably get more credit since she took
the photos, she gets my way above vote.
Spiderj
[edit on 9/6/2005 by Spiderj]
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Dronetek posted on 6-9-2005 @ 02:47 PM
I don't see how this camp could be a bad thing.
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Originally posted by Spiderj
Only two rations of food really sounds like a nightmare to me, especially when dietiticians
say that everyone should have at least three good meals a day. Living in such close
quarters with strangers for such a long time will cause problems

I'm glad I'm not the only one who wanted to bring this up. Don't get me wrong, I sometimes
only have two meals a day but I'm an adult and sometimes my schedule doesn't allow for three
squares.
But the thought of feeding growing children only two meals a day with the possiblity of a poptart
snack in between seems fairly disturbing to me, or perhaps I'm seeing things that aren't there,
but I believe even prisoners (murderers and rapists and the like) get three squares a day in
prison. Someone also mentioned guantanomo, the thought that prisoners are being fed better
than american children I find a bit disturbing.
You do have a point, but prisons are budgeted for and disasters are not - to the same extent (I
know that's 'wrong' but it's the way it is.)
The crucial thing is that these people are alive and these are temporary measures until things
are sorted out.
Having to keep kids happy on two meals a day is much less of a knightmare than feeding them
no meals a day because they're dead.
And unfortunatly there are rapists and murderers amongst them, so any motivation for them to
act has to be cut back (like anything that can be seen as favouritism or anyone getting
something better) and everyone has to be treated the same for the benefit of them all.
Unfortunatly, it once again boils down to a few people making it crappy for the whole.
Then, as other people have said, there is disease; In the conditions that they have been in there
are many diseases that could have infected people. They have to keep them quarantined until
there is little or no risk of any diseases being passed on.
And, as again other people have said, until we see how this pans out over, lets be fair, a year -
and bearing in mind any difficulties that may occur - we won't be able to make a fair
assumption.
If this was happening to ordinary people it would be one thing, but it's not. It's happening to a
huge number of people that have been subject to a huge national disaster, conditions are
extraordinary and people have to be prepared to realistically give up some creature comforts for
survival. They are lucky to even be alive.
I've lived on the streets with no food, fresh water or shelter in the Winter, I would have given
my right arm to get the 'luxery' these people are having right now at the time. Unless you have
lived in poverty, even for only a relatively short time like I have - you have NO idea what it's
like and how luxorious these 'harsh' conditions are in these circumstances. These people will be
over the moon to get to live like this after the hell of teh last week.
No matter how bad it may seem it's better then the alternative.
And going back to the prison's, if certain people weren't so up in arms about their precious
'human rights' then those filth behind bars would not have all the comforts they have now
anyway. - that's down to doo-gooders wanting everyone to have equal 'human rights' anyway.
It damn well isn't because the government wants it. If some of us had our own way their lives
would be a living hell, but no one's allowed because of their 'human rights' that the doo-gooders
prat on about when they have nothing better to do.
Yes it is wrong their conditions are better than these refugees, but the public only have
themselves to blame.
If it all upset's anyone that much - why don't you swap with them- at least you'll still have a
roof over your head and food.
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You make some very good points and of course I understood going into this that two meals a
day is better than none and that prisons are budgeted for three, but I would think with all the
things FEMA is doing they could actually budget for three meals a day.
Although I do hope you were joking when you said this:
If anyone feels that bad about this - then why don't you trade places with some of them?
It's hard understanding the British sense of humour some times, my mothers British and dry as
a toast.

But unlike your situation, these people weren't forced out of there homes to be replaced by
someone else. Also the cabin camp area thing didn't disperse any permanent residents of the
cabins (correct me if I'm wrong) they have been "donated" by the churches involved.
While similar I believe the small differences in the situations are significant.
Spiderj
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You make some very good points and of course I understood going into this that two meals a
day is better than none and that prisons are budgeted for three, but I would think with all the
things FEMA is doing they could actually budget for three meals a day.
Although I do hope you were joking when you said this:
If anyone feels that bad about this - then why don't you trade places with some of them?
It's hard understanding the British sense of humour some times, my mothers British and dry as
a toast.
But unlike your situation, these people weren't forced out of there homes to be replaced by
someone else. Also the cabin camp area thing didn't disperse any permanent residents of the
cabins (correct me if I'm wrong) they have been "donated" by the churches involved.
While similar I believe the small differences in the situations are significant.
Spiderj
They are differenet - I've since deleted the section on my events (in brief to our viewers, he is is

commenting on is the following:
-------------
My, my missus and our friend were staying in a bedsit/hotel and we were given 12 hours notice
to get out becasue the government had commissioned the place to take in foreign refugees
(from eastern europe I think). We were on the streets that night with our stuff while some
refugees enjoyed our home and food at our tax payer's expense.)
-------------
As you said, this is a different situation and irrelevent so I did remove it, but as you had already
had read it before I did so, I think it was fairer to show it, so people knew what you were
commenting on.
I was joking in my trading places comment, or being sarcastic more so. Sorry I should stop it
but it's what makes me... me! LOL
I have a poor way of communicating my feelings sometimes and when I can't think straight,
which is most of the time, I tend to resort to sarcasm.
What I really mean is that it's easy to complain but sometimes we have to weigh the situation
up and try and see that it's actually quite good in the circumstances and try to appreciate the
problems that have to be solved and that things are not always as easy as they seem or as they
should be.
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Agent,
I understand what you're saying (you lost me for a bit, but now I understand). Really, I'm not
talking about "inconveniences" and expecting life's niceties to be as they were before this. I'm
talking about a government assisting a group of people through a tough time without the group
of people having to give up inherent rights to get that help.
That's all in the world that is on my mind right now. Do I want them to have three meals a day?
Yes. But if the government can't give them three, and can only give them two, that's okay as
long as the government doesn't prevent me, a fellow citizen, from providing the third meal.
That about sums up my concerns right now.
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loam posted on 6-9-2005 @ 04:00 PM

Right. I want to make this clear (according to what the host said). They can leave. They can't
come back. If they have family/friends that will put them up, the host said they could leave to go
stay with some one...but they can't come back.
Sounds like a convenient way for the feds to cull the group to make it the state's financial
burden on a long term basis.
[edit on 6-9-2005 by loam]
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No problem agentsmith and I do think actually that your story held some relevance to the
current thread.
As for the joking thing, that's why I asked, you can't gauge sarcasm through the written word,
though I'm sure DARPA is working on it.
But in the spirit of your joke, I believe I found a volunteer.
news.yahoo.com...
I got this link from another thread, but I really think she'd be down for it Smith.
May the sun never set on the empire and all that.
Spiderj
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Urgh what an ugly lady. Problem is she isn't even being sarcastic, sorry if I came off like her..
I only believe I am qualified to say it even remotely because I have lived in crap and I have
experienced having nothing. And I know what it feels like to simply appreciate being alive. And I
of course also appreciate having pretty good wealth these days. But I tend to rarely moan when
things arn't ideal becasue I know what it's like to touch the bottom...
I just can appreciate having nothing, and I tihnk that the conditions are actually pretty good
considering.
Yes prisoner's have it better, but that's down to all the human rights activists, not the
government.
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marg6043 posted on 6-9-2005 @ 04:17 PM
Val, I just finished reading your first hand experience with the government assisting with
refugees, and at first I kind of got very upset that government officials will denied the
generosity that you and your family were offering.
I guess the person in charge wants to keep control of everything that has to do with the care of
the people.
Some of the comments that you, your son and mother had to hear were probably from the
mouth of officials that are not very careful of the way they express themselves with relation of
the people that they will be taking care off.
Been of less than privilege class is not excused for them to make comments like that, and I am
particular outraged by the comment on the teen girls and their miscarriages, that shows that
this people are under very debilitating stress that can developed into very bad health problems
later.
I guess that keeping them away from any surrounding community will help in case of any
outbreak from been in inffected waters for so long.
It could be some problems with that.
But like you said, I as an American citizen would never allowed no government official to keep
me from going any where I want to.
I told my husband after seen what is going on with evacuation centers that If it comes to having
to leave my home in an unexpected situation I will never, never, will go to a government made
evacuation center.
I will make sure I leave with plenty of time so I get to chose where to go.
Is very hard braking to see the people that has no choice but to wait for government assistant
and charity to take care of them.
Hopefully the people in the cabins will be treated with respect and consideration regardless of
social disadvantage they are still Americans and they are most God fearing Christian people.
I am also concern that they will be denied their freedom of religious gathering like having
services from local churches.
Perhaps you will follow up to see what is next.
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Agent,
I understand what you're saying (you lost me for a bit, but now I understand). Really, I'm not
talking about "inconveniences" and expecting life's niceties to be as they were before this. I'm
talking about a government assisting a group of people through a tough time without the group
of people having to give up inherent rights to get that help.
That's all in the world that is on my mind right now. Do I want them to have three meals a day?
Yes. But if the government can't give them three, and can only give them two, that's okay as
long as the government doesn't prevent me, a fellow citizen, from providing the third meal. That
about sums up my concerns right now.
I see completely where your coming from, and if more people were like you then it would be
possible. But if it's just you, you can;t provide all of them with that third meal so they have to
say no, or some will be better off than others and that will cause problems. I think that's how
they see it..
But you are right in what you say and I wish more people had the same attitude, to be honest
I'm just trying to justify why they are acting the way they are so people don't judge them
unfairly.
It is just a very, very sad situation.....
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Amethyst posted on 6-9-2005 @ 04:21 PM
Now you know one of the things that Eminent Domain ruling might be used for!
That's just...unreal. Scary.
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Again I don't disagree. I lost my apartment and most of my stuff in the 94 quake, but nothing
compared to these folks.
And it's not so much that they wont provide three meals it's sort of a slippery slope thing for
me. If they're only providing two meals it's a mentality that could spin out of control, The
mentality of, it's good enough for them is a bad place for a humanitarian effort to start.
I'm sure the hosts won't be having two meals a day, but I'm pretty sure they'll help themselves
to pop tarts.
IMO of course and as always.
Spiderj
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FallenFromTheTree posted on 6-9-2005 @ 04:34 PM

Originally posted by Amethyst

Eminent Domain will be used to screw the rightful owners out of their property in New Orleans
after the bulldozers level all the condemned property standing in the way of high density
development.
Much of the historic French Quarter may be saved, but everything else will be fair game.
The existing property owners will be given assessed value as "fair market value" and then
rezone for the greatest profit.
Of course they'll still have to find someone to insure the re-development plan.
Meanwhile the detainees won't have any way to even show up in court to protect their property
rights.
Just watch
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Originally posted by FallenFromTheTree


Eminent Domain will be used to screw the rightful owners out of their property in New Orleans
after the bulldozers level all the condemned property standing in the way of high density
development.
I was talking about the land apparently being taken from the church. I'm willing to guess that's
what happened.
copyright & usage

Again I don't disagree. I lost my apartment and most of my stuff in the 94 quake, but nothing
compared to these folks.
And it's not so much that they wont provide three meals it's sort of a slippery slope thing for me.
If they're only providing two meals it's a mentality that could spin out of control, The mentality
of, it's good enough for them is a bad place for a humanitarian effort to start.
I'm sure the hosts won't be having two meals a day, but I'm pretty sure they'll help themselves
to pop tarts.
IMO of course and as always.
Spiderj
Emm I'm seeing your point there, I might have swung too much the other way... Maybe I
should pay more attention to what I preach about everything not being black and white.
I guess they could make more of an effort, even if that extra meal was cereal it would be better
than nothing and still be nutricious and filling. It wouldn't cost much either.
You do have a point, the more we are willing to give up, the more is taken away..

copyright & usage
even if that extra meal was cereal it would be better than nothing and still be nutricious and
filling.
yep even Oprah thinks we should be getting more fiber, and I believe Valhall has some extra
cereal so lets hope they let outsiders feed the detainess if they want.
This is starting to sound more and more like one of those petting zoos where you can go and
feed the goats...and that's probably not good.
Spiderj
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jsobecky posted on 6-9-2005 @ 05:02 PM
I was talking about the land apparently being taken from the church. I'm willing to guess that's
what happened.
I don't think so. Goto kfor.com and there are a couple of articles about this camp, which is
expected to house 3,000 people, and another camp in OK called Camp Gruber, which is
expected to house 1,500 people. It seems like the OK governor is on top of this, wanting to
make sure that they don't take in more people than they can handle.
Val - your state has a $400 million dollar surplus?! Geez, does money grow on trees out
there?
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Esoterica posted on 6-9-2005 @ 05:08 PM
Anyone have a better idea of what to do with 1 million refugees?
Seriously, I'm waiting.
"Uhh... you can't just leave donated goods in the cabins. FEMA has stated they want all supplies
to go to their central warehouse. They said they have had far too many supplies come in and
they need to handle them. You can't leave ANY clothes."
Yep, because it's an absolutely ludicrious idea that they would have inventory and logistical
control. Best thing to do is to just have items randomly given out.
Now, I'm not saying that this is a good thing. Sticking people in "detainment" camps (see, I can
use ominous quotation marks too) is pretty horrible. But seriously, there are a MILLION people
right now that can't go home. Because they don't have a home. That's twice the population of
Wyoming. This isn't a Disney movie, when bad # happens, less than ideal methods may need to
be used.
Now, why wouldn't they want people to leave? Let's say that the camp is full. Bob decides to go
on a hike for a week. How long is the camp supposed to wait until they fill the vacancy left by
Bob? What are they supposed to do when Bob comes back and demands his now-occupied bed?
How are they supposed to create a supply network when the "population" of each camp keeps
changing? One camp will end up with too much food, one will have too little... Not to mention
that you really don't want a bunch of homeless people wandering around. The people in these
camps have NOTHING, if you want to try to help them rebuild their lives you have to impose
some sort of structure.
Note: Before anyone says that people might want to leave to visit family and friends... I doubt
anyone would want to visit family that forced them to live in the camp instead of on the living
room couch. I don't see such a thing becoming an issue.
And "Base" probably refers to whatever their central command cabin is. You know, the offices
and such. May as well call it "Base" as much as anything else.
As for only two meals a day... better than Meals on Wheels. All that matters is nutrients and
calories, the idea of three meals in simply a cultural one. I haven't eaten breakfast in about 10
years, and I'm healthy as can be.
[edit on 9-6-2005 by Esoterica]
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even if that extra meal was cereal it would be better than nothing and still be nutricious
and filling.
yep even Oprah thinks we should be getting more fiber, and I believe Valhall has some extra
cereal so lets hope they let outsiders feed the detainess if they want.
This is starting to sound more and more like one of those petting zoos where you can go and
feed the goats...and that's probably not good.
Spiderj
Emm I honestly wasn't being sarcastic that time... That other comment was the only sarcastic
one really. It is a sad situation, I picked cereal because I know it's good for you, it's filling and
it's cheap.
I might have misunderstood but I thought you might have thought I was being sarcastic, I
might just be being paranoid..
copyright & usage
dawnstar posted on 6-9-2005 @ 05:27 PM

anyone got any vacant rental property they'd be willing to lease free if charge a few months,
just till a famility gets settled into your community.
really, how are they susposed to fing jobs way out in the middle of nowhere? our fine
government at their finest....keep them dependant as long as possible.
I don't go with the idea that these people are at any higher risk of criminal activity than anyone
other group of people either. give them a job, a place to stay, and well a chance to get
restarted, and they will be fine.....as soon as the shock and trauma subsides some.
I do hope this is just a temporary situation for them, just until they can be relocated into a
community, with jobs, and the opportunity to rebuild their lives......which should take 5
months...
maybe since they are saying that they have enough supplies, the churches should use their
money to "adopt" some of these families.....bring them into their community, provide them with
housing, food and such, and well, help them get established. I don't know, but this sounds like
it will just be extending the pain longer. One thing is for sure, it would be better to spread them
across the country, in places where there are lots of jobs than to plop them in just a few areas.
especially areas where there's nothing around.
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I was thinking about the homeless last night. Believe you me, if I had the money, the room, and
the means (not to mention hubby's blessing), I'd be letting some of them stay with us, here in
Ohio.
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BaastetNoir posted on 6-9-2005 @ 06:25 PM

While everyone worries about roo for the Katrina victims, I cant stop thinking that Joel Olstein
for example amongst many other TV preachers have gigantic Churches and could very well open
them to the victims... of course that would imply loosing a couple of weekend donations....
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I honestly wasn't being sarcastic that time...
I didn't think you were, and unfortunately i wasn't being sarcastic either.
Spiderj
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Originally posted by jsobecky
Val - your state has a $400 million dollar surplus?! Geez, does money grow on trees out
there?
Oh! That's where that money went. This past year the state passed a lottery, but the legislature
wouldn't pass the funding. So we have a lottery with no money - that $400 million must be it!
I live in one weird place, I'll tell you.

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timski posted on 6-9-2005 @ 07:31 PM
Originally posted by dawnstar

"..how are they susposed to find jobs way out in the middle of nowhere? our fine government at
their finest....keep them dependant as long as possible.."
They could always be employed to make Nike trainers and Gap sweatshirts for $0.50 an hour,
and make a dent in the volume of cheap Far-Eastern imports.
A win/win situation, jobs for the the thousands of refugees trying to get back on their feet, and
a huge cheap labour force for the US economy
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Hal9000 posted on 6-9-2005 @ 08:14 PM

our fine government at their finest....keep them dependant as long as possible.
It sounds like your suggesting that these people were on welfare, and that the govt wants to
keep them that way? Why in the world would they do that? I'm sure they don't want to have to
take care of these people any longer than is necessary. It is going to cost a fortune to house
and feed them. The same goes for all the NWO people who think we are all going to be put into
concentrations camps. What good is it to put a population of people into concentrations camps
and let them stand around doing nothing. Why not let them continue to work for a living and
house and feed themselves?
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texviator posted on 6-9-2005 @ 08:44 PM

I don't know how many of you have been to the parts of New Orleans from which most of the
"evacuees" are coming from, but the FEMA person was right:
"You don't know what kind of people are coming here".
I live in Louisiana, born in New Orleans.
There are parts of New Orleans, that if you are white, YOU DON"T GO THERE, even in daytime
hours.
Understand, on a human level, my heart goes out. I have donated clothing, shoes, and my time
to evacuees that are re-located to my area.
I am as wary of the Feds as anyone here, but they are right on this one. Contain and control.
From your post, Val, you said if the evacuee leaves, they can't come back, so they CAN LEAVE.
Does anyone know what happened to the inmates in the New Orleans jails?
Has anyone screened the people coming to the camp for criminal records?
We have not seen the last of unrest associated with Katrina. I predict you will see more of it,
only now it will be in the various relocation areas.
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edsinger posted on 6-9-2005 @ 08:56 PM
As I have said - some of these 'refugee's' will commit crimes, not all, just a small portion and its
your governments duty to make sure it doesn't happen.
If the reverse were true and they just let them go as they please and such, the cry from the left
would be just as bad.......why didn't the government check these people? Why did Bush let it
happen?
A few weeks will not hurt them for the most part but it will give time to assess the situation and
make plans accordingly.
remember some places that have taken them are already experiencing problems.

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howmuchisthedoggy posted on 6-9-2005 @ 09:23 PM
Excellent work Valhall, you get a WATS from me as well.
The more I read the more I find the situation smellier than downtown NO at the minute. Sure
it's great all these people will have food in their bellies and roofs over their heads. As Barbara
Bush had commented with a sly grin on her face during the week, a lot of them will be better off
than they were before the hurricane hit.
However, I can't help but wonder about two things. Firstly, the topic of Emminent Domain. It's
irritating enough that Halliburton are getting the rebuilding contracts, but think of the killing (no
pun intended) that companies will make rezoning the poorer sections of the city, once they have
been drained and bulldozed. You can also bet your bottom dollars that the storm protection will
be built post-haste, so no problems getting insurance there.
The people who have been displaced, i.e. those who they couldn't exterminate through flooding,
zero response, disease and criminal elements, will be relocated. The ones on social welfare may
as well be elsewhere as anywhere. It just seems so smelly/convienient that all of a sudden
prime NO real estate has been created and freed up.
The second issue is regarding disease. Putting people in close proximity in camps like that can
only lead to more communication of disease. Is it by design? A few dysentry sufferers per camp,
with kids being underfed and do we have a problem? Or does the problem "die out" away from
the media glare? Will we remember those displaced 5 months from now?
As well as spreading disease, the issue of spreading civil unrest springs to mind. We have
undesirable elements being exported to kind-hearted communties. It can only lead to
resentment and more division. After a few months of putting up with robberies, rapes and
murders after doing the Christian thing and bringing these people into your community, will you
be as fast to do it again in the future? Think of how many people they can knock off next time
around when the charity has dried up.
I am sure, however that we may be over-reacting and seeing conspiracies where there are
none. It may be just what they say it is and things will return to normal in time. However, it
doesn't hurt to shine a light on it and look at the situation from every angle.
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spacedoubt posted on 6-9-2005 @ 09:36 PM
Originally posted by texviator
I've been asking the same question..twice in this thread..

You really have to wonder..I've only heard the vaguest mention of it on
Standard media..
So the question stands, what is the status of all the prisoners in the affected areas?
I'll see if I can find something..
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Thatoneguy posted on 6-9-2005 @ 09:37 PM
In a way, this kinda reminds me of that TV show called The 4400 in which 4400 people show up
out of nowhere. None of them have jobs or homes so the government takes them in.
Yes, all this sounds bad... But what else do you expect them to do?

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Hopefully, if they do bulldoze the flooded area, they will have sense enough to create a park or
some 'green space' that will absorb any flooding in the future....it would be cheap 'insurance' for
a city below sea level, no?
As to 'screening' the people they are moving out to other communities, they have said that
large numbers of these people have lost all records, all forms of ID......how will they know some
one is who they say they are?? Might take a while to sort out at best. ( At least there should be
a data base containing the finger prints of known criminals, even if all other ID has washed
away.)
And the health concerns about quarantine may be the key......CNN is reporting there has been
five deaths from a cholera-like illness.
Spacedoubt, I don't have a link, but I think I hear that the NO jail had to release their prisoners
when it began to flood.
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This has some relevance to FEMA and how they are treating evacuees...
Evacuees not told where they're going
It wasn't confusion that prevented Hurricane Katrina evacuees from learning they were headed
to Utah — it was intentional.
"I knew where Utah was, but nobody told me that's where we were going. Nothing personal. It's
nice. But I don't know anybody here," said Jervis Bergeron, among the first batch of 152
evacuees to arrive at the National Guard's Camp Williams training site 30 miles south of Salt

Lake City. The number rose to about 600 by late Sunday.
Like others who arrived in smaller military planes, Bergeron wasn't told where he was headed
when he boarded the JetBlue airliner Saturday at the Louis Armstrong New Orleans International
Airport.
National Guard officials asked a reporter and photographer aboard two separate military planes
not to identify their news organizations or tell the refugees where the planes were going.
FEMA provides the rationale that when some people learn where they are going, they object and
refuse to go... So now, using safety as a partial excuse, FEMA has decided they will make these
decisions for them. Based on what is in this thread, these evacuees may have something to
legitimately worry about....
One more thing....Are they really able to leave these shelters once they get there???? This
article seems inconsistent with that. Why would it make sense to ship someone somewhere they
don't what to go, only to allow them to immediately leave once they get there??
I smell a rat.
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Thatoneguy posted on 6-9-2005 @ 09:50 PM
okay then, lets not give them a place to live. Lets let them all roam the streets free, wherever
they want to go. No money, no food. Some have a lost everything they have and feel that
they've got nothing to lose.
The government is giving them a place to live and if they have somewhere else that they can go
to they have the option to leave.
I don't see this as a prison. It's an attempt to keep these people in order because it could be
much worse without it, for everyone.
Or am I missing the point?

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Originally posted by Thatoneguy

It means freedom is illusory..... IMO, that is a far more scarier thought.
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QuietSoul posted on 6-9-2005 @ 10:07 PM
Originally posted by texviator

The only tiny tidbit of information I can gather about the prisons is that on Thursday they were
being bussed out:

The detainees were eventually driven away in trucks on Thursday with the help of prison officers
brought in from other towns. But the New Orleans officers and their families were left behind, Mr
Reyes said.
www.abc.net.au...
And a mention of a temporary jail being established by FEMA on Friday (Doubt this is where the
prisoners went):
Temporary jail facility being established, need plastic handcuffs and shackles.
www.fema.gov...
Also found this:
About 3,000 inmates from Orleans Parish Prison were still in line to be moved as he spoke. And
some female inmates were to be sent to the Louisiana State Penitentiary at Angola, an all-male
prison, though corrections officials stressed the men and women would be kept separate.
www.wwltv.com...
There were a total of 7600 prisoners.. don't know where the others went
[edit on 9/6/2005 by QuietSoul]
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Originally posted by Thatoneguy

I don't think there's any point you can miss. I believe the rest of us had, up until this point,
tried desparately to miss your point. The U.S. government is not required to assist a single
person in need. But through the voice of the American citizens it has heard loud and clear that
in times of need we will step forward and help. The government decided, based on the
perceived and real compassion of the American citizenry, to build a bureacratic agency that
would dole out compassion in the name of the people. They failed. The money they have taken,
and will continue to take, to fund FEMA comes from the compassionate people's pockets. The
people who will continue to step forward and assist their fellow man in time of need - even after
they themselves have been robbed by the bungling bureacrats.
Basic needs being met by charitable contribution, or stolen tax dollars in inept bureaucratic
moves, should never require payment in the form of inalienable rights and inherent freedoms of
the U.S. citizen.
Some of these people will be better off now, getting better food and shelter than they have had
in their lives. Some of these people have lost everything and now stand on level ground with
those who have been lifted up.
It doesn't matter. The price for charity is zero. And lest there ever be any price attached to it,
it will never be the relinquishing of personal rights and freedoms for those basic needs.
These measures are not for the purpose of controlling these people. Not if they are being done
in my name and with my tax dollars. They are to supply basic needs for the purpose of survival.
These people owe me nothing, and more importantly they owe the governmental agencies that
are providing these services in my name less.
You are not diminished as a citizen because you have been diminished in assets.
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What if this camp is designated for some of the 5,000+ meth-heads from New Orleans?
(Perhaps a few hundred crackheads and heroin addicts mixed in that number as well). Then it
would make even more sense to have a "you can leave but nobody comes in" policy. Otherwise
there is going to be an avenue for drug trafficing, and even more troublesome methlabs in the
kitchens (probably the #1 reason they have eliminated the stoves etc portion of the camps). If
you leave and pick up $100 worth of materials (common household chemicals and cough syrup)
you can then bring it back and cook up around five or six thousand hits of crystal meth.
When you consider the statements from some of the officers "the kind of people" this begins to
make even more sense. Sounds to me like you've visited one of the designated refugee camps
for known addicts.
Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin - Friday, September 2, 2005 - transcript from radio interview
And one of the things people -- nobody's talked about this. Drugs flowed in and out of New
Orleans and the surrounding metropolitan area so freely it was scary to me, and that's why we
were having the escalation in murders. People don't want to talk about this, but I'm going to talk
about it.
You have drug addicts that are now walking around this city looking for a fix, and that's the
reason why they were breaking in hospitals and drugstores. They're looking for something to
take the edge off of their jones, if you will.
And right now, they don't have anything to take the edge off. And they've probably found guns.
So what you're seeing is drug-starving crazy addicts, drug addicts, that are wrecking havoc. And
we don't have the manpower to adequately deal with it. We can only target certain sections of
the city and form a perimeter around them and hope to God that we're not overrun.

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I don't think there's any point you can miss. I believe the rest of us had, up until this point, tried
desparately to miss your point. The U.S. government is not required to assist a single person in
need. But through the voice of the American citizens it has heard loud and clear that in times of
need we will step forward and help. The government decided, based on the perceived and real
compassion of the American citizenry, to build a bureacratic agency that would dole out
compassion in the name of the people. They failed. The money they have taken, and will
continue to take, to fund FEMA comes from the compassionate people's pockets. The people who
will continue to step forward and assist their fellow man in time of need - even after they
themselves have been robbed by the bungling bureacrats.
Basic needs being met by charitable contribution, or stolen tax dollars in inept bureaucratic
moves, should never require payment in the form of inalienable rights and inherent freedoms of
the U.S. citizen.
Some of these people will be better off now, getting better food and shelter than they have had
in their lives. Some of these people have lost everything and now stand on level ground with
those who have been lifted up.
It doesn't matter. The price for charity is zero. And lest there ever be any price attached to it,
it will never be the relinquishing of personal rights and freedoms for those basic needs.
These measures are not for the purpose of controlling these people. Not if they are being done
in my name and with my tax dollars. They are to supply basic needs for the purpose of survival.
These people owe me nothing, and more importantly they owe the governmental agencies that
are providing these services in my name less.
You are not diminished as a citizen because you have been diminished in assets.
Well said!

copyright & usage
bsbray11 posted on 6-9-2005 @ 10:35 PM
Thank you for posting this, Valhall. Of course a WATS from me, too. This is some ridiculous
*Horse Pucky*.
Mod Edit: Removed Profanity
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soficrow posted on 6-9-2005 @ 10:52 PM
Brilliant Valhall, as per usual.
But why are survivors being prevented from staying in NO, and scavenging to live, when THIS is
the alternative?
...Wish I'd seen this before I posted my little effort.
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thrival posted on 6-9-2005 @ 11:11 PM
Something I don't hear mentioned enough, although the

BBC covered it, the remarks of a Swiss journalist; FEMA
had $10B set aside several years ago, for strengthening
New Orleans' dikes and other engineering projects, but
GW spent the money on Iraq! How often do Americans
need to hear that no WMD's were found, and our presence
there is unconstitutional! 911 was an inside job, George
Tenet was the whipping boy for GW's intelligence failure!
Murder will always be justified by criminal morons!
If drowning a city isn't murder, when all the studies
showed it was a disaster waiting to happen and yet

do nothing to fix it, then I don't know what is. But I'll
admit that New Orleans is just the poster child for
what Katrina did to a much larger area.
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boredom posted on 6-9-2005 @ 11:11 PM
They are very correct in being worried about a possible riot if any one group is seen as being
favored over another. Look at what happened in New Orleans; the looting, the murder, the
rape, the violence. There is no way of telling how any of these people will react over the next
few months so the only way to attempt to keep them under control is to treat them as equally
as possible.
That means identical clothing, identical meals, identical sleeping accomidations, etc.
Human beings do not handle change well. Nearly all of us will default to the most basic of
survival instincts when our lives are threatened with violence, starvation, or some combination
of the two.
The reason they told you that anyone leaving would not be allowed back inside is to avoid
someone leaving and bringing back items that will be seen as a luxury. Someone will try and
take it and violence will be the inevitable result.
copyright & usage

Originally posted by thrival

Something I don't hear mentioned enough, although the
BBC covered it, the remarks of a Swiss journalist; FEMA
had $10B set aside several years ago, for strengthening
New Orleans' dikes and other engineering projects, but
GW spent the money on Iraq! How often do Americans
need to hear that no WMD's were found, and our presence
there is unconstitutional! 911 was an inside job, George
Tenet was the whipping boy for GW's intelligence failure!
Murder will always be justified by criminal morons!
If drowning a city isn't murder, when all the studies
showed it was a disaster waiting to happen and yet
do nothing to fix it, then I don't know what is. But I'll
admit that New Orleans is just the poster child for
what Katrina did to a much larger area.
That money was spent on Iraq because Iraq is a far greater concern than a single mid-sized
city. Iraq's situation affects the entire planet. New Orleans affects the United States.
Further, reports about the state of New Orleans and the levee system have been available since
(at least) the Regan administration. This means that both political parties had a chance to fortify
the levees and chose to instead spend the money elsewhere. If blame is to be placed for not
spending tax dollars on increasing protection for New Orleans then it should be placed on both
parties and on every member of congress who sat or still sits in congress from the time the first
reports were presented. Put another way, this is NOT just Bush's (the current one) fault.
Continuing, nobody in our government was going to spend tens of billions of dollars to shore up
a levee system to protect a city that *never* suffered a direct hit from a category 4 or 5
hurricane. It was seen as such a remote possibility that they decided it wasn't financially worth
the effort and for over two decades they were correct.
There is no indication that spending the money would have kept the city safe from the
hurricane.
[edit on 6-9-2005 by boredom]

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blargh. wrong button. =P
[edit on 6-9-2005 by boredom]
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Muaddib posted on 6-9-2005 @ 11:54 PM
Originally posted by mOjOm

Does it seem to strange to anyone else that within a matter of days FEMA has leased this whole
place, set up complete communications, security, staff, organized id and housing systems, setup
a system of rules which everyone has already been trained to understand, prepared organized
buckets of toys for the kiddies, racks of clothes, etc. etc. etc...???
I mean it's not like the church leased out the property last month or even last week, yet the
paperwork has all been done and the staff is ready and in place.
For a government agency that didn't even show up until almost a week after the crisis hit, it sure
seems a bit odd that something like this would come together so well so soon.
.............
I think everyone is overeacting.
To anwser your question about the lease and how it was possible that the government prepared
this place so fast, here is the anwser directly from Valhall's post.
This past week the Southern Baptist association of Oklahoma offered the facility as a
place to house refugees from the Katrina disaster. Each church owning a cabin was then
called to find out if they would make their cabin available. Churches across the state agreed.

First people start complaining that things have taken too long, and now a member complains
because FEMA prepared these places too fast?......
Am I missing something here?
Valhall, maybe you remember that a month or so ago I was talking exactly about this sort of
thing. Being able to prepare for disasters that we have never seen before, and preparing to
relocate hundreds of thousands and even millions of people from the coastal areas that could be
affected by such disasters.
The relocation of these people is probably the biggest that has happened in US history, or one
of the biggest. I don't think these places are set up as "detainments camps," and I don't think
that people would be living for very long in these places, maybe a couple months or so until
these people can be relocated back to NO, ( I do not recommend anyone doing this, even if
everything is put back to normal ) or relocating them to new places where they can restart their
lives back to normal.
Many of these people have nothing at all, and they have to start from scratch. Would you prefer
if these people were left to fend for themselves?
Any place that is set up like these refugees centers would need to have law enforcement, and
rules. You can't expect the thousands of people to behave good, look at what happened even
after the second day after the hurrican passed over NO.... People were being killed, women
were raped, there was looting and police officers and other people trying to help were being
shot at.
Do you want something like what happened in NO to happen again in these refugees
centers?.....
Then, if FEMA and those who helped set up these centers if they would not have prepared the
places and had not set rules and laws in place and riots, looting, deaths and rapes occur, then
once again we are going to have Americans protesting and blaming the government for not
setting up these refugees centers properly, with rules, laws and provisions for everyone....
I think some people are overeacting. It seems to be "damned if you do, and damned if you
don't".....just like always.

---Edited to add comments---
[edit on 7-9-2005 by Muaddib]
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gps777 posted on 7-9-2005 @ 12:34 AM

In the fear that my 2 cents worth maybe called over priced i`ll post my opinion`s and concerns
anyway.
I`ll start by stating the obvious to us all,Val your one of many members on ats that make it a
great place.
When i first read your your initial post i was uneasy with all the police,military etc but given
these types of curcumstances these people face i can understand why they(Gov Agencies) are
going about it the way they are,with a few acceptions,which for one is why the specific 5
months limit?.
From what i`ve read the majority of people that were stuck in NO were the lower income
citizens who more than likely did`nt own a house (rented) and more than likely no insurance so
its safe to say those that have been affected to this exstent have only the clothes on their backs,
so my question to these Gov Agencies would be what is the point in detaining these people for 5
months going to solve?
Rather than having this time limit would`nt it make more sense that they should state that
these people would have somewhere to stay until (no minimum of 5 months)relocation to a
succsessful detaines job search or self (or welfare)accomadation.
Not that i dont smell something rancide with all of this FEMA/Military seems to me a great
excerise for the NWO as far as the US is concerned and whether the slow response was
deliberate so in the future if a major event (nuke or bio weapon attack)happened the citizens
would conform quicker (because thats what your now demanding)to the Gov`s response in
martial law either way i see it Katrina is a win win situation if there was an attempt to bring in a
NWO.
I would be extremely concerned if i was a US citizen and the detaines were being kept in
dentention camps like these here in Australia.
images.google.com.au...
The difference is these are illegal immagrants,and i`m sure your citizens will remotely feel the
same as these people detained here after a long period.
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sosuemetoo posted on 7-9-2005 @ 12:46 AM

(You have voted Valhall for the Way Above Top Secret award)
I've copy/pasted to the site that moderate. It's small (in comparison to ATS), but we are very
dedicated.
Our members immediately sent your story has been sent to Alex Jones and to Rense (though I
think a few others on ATS have done the same).
Keep up the great work! Very good article!
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Netchicken posted on 7-9-2005 @ 01:39 AM
I think people are sliding off track here.
Valls fantastic artical emphasised that the worrying factor was the inability of the people to
leave, and for others to visit.
THAT is the problem, the "prison" aspect of it.
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39 drops of solder posted on 7-9-2005 @ 03:29 AM

Experiments Galore!

Do you think I'm over-reacting to the idea of being bussed hundreds of miles from what I am
familiar with to a place miles from civilization and from which I cannot leave?
or
do you think I'm over-reacting to the fact that federal agencies are treating people who have
done nothing but lose all they ever owned to a natural disaster as if they are criminals waiting to
make their next nefarious move?
No over-reacting here Valhall. Excellent pictures of an experiment about to unfold. These

people, whoever they may be who are about to arrive at this site, will be guinea pigs for
whatever psychological/sociological experiment the federal government has up its sleeve.
There's a worse name for them than refugees, more like "prisoners". 5 months? Incredible!
I began a thread in this section about the federal government having created Hurricane Katrina
at the get go. And with your information, the picture is beginning to get very clear. These
economically poor (blacks) are about to undergo an experiment of social engineering.
Welcome to dictatorship. It is alive and well in America. Dang, it is alive and well in the state I
live in (Oklahoma). A terribly rude awakening.
Thanks for the thread. It has put much into perspective.
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WyrdeOne posted on 7-9-2005 @ 03:30 AM

What happens in these camps when NO becomes a Waco type event?
There are people in the city who have been very clear about their wishes, they don't want to
leave. The military is now going to have to force them out.
If this turns ugly, I'm pretty sure the people in the camps aren't going to take it well. There
could be some cause for alarm here folks.
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39 drops of solder posted on 7-9-2005 @ 03:42 AM
Rosy Cheeks
Originally posted by frayed1

Hopefully, if they do bulldoze the flooded area, they will have sense enough to create a park or
some 'green space' that will absorb any flooding in the future....it would be cheap 'insurance' for
a city below sea level, no?
As to 'screening' the people they are moving out to other communities, they have said that large
numbers of these people have lost all records, all forms of ID......how will they know some one is
who they say they are?? Might take a while to sort out at best. ( At least there should be a data
base containing the finger prints of known criminals, even if all other ID has washed away.)
And the health concerns about quarantine may be the key......CNN is reporting there has been
five deaths from a cholera-like illness.
Spacedoubt, I don't have a link, but I think I hear that the NO jail had to release their prisoners
when it began to flood.
New Orleans will be known as New New Orleans, because upper class white collar conservatives
with rosy cheeks will take over (Old) New Orleans. Don't you get it? The federal government is
rearranging the entire social structure of New Orleans. It's an experiment...soon to become a
reality.
Social engineering...displace to replace. The scheme is brillant, too bad it's as devious as when
China bulldozes down a protestor with a tank or when the KGB shows up at your door and takes
a person away, never seen or heard from again, or when Hitler fried 60,000 Jews a day in
concentration camps.
2004, Americans sealed their fates by ("re")-electing a dictator into office. Thank goodness I did
not vote for the punk on the block. Because, what do you expect, freedom?
Hahahahahahahahahahaha
[edit on 9/7/2005 by 39 drops of solder]
[edit on 9/7/2005 by 39 drops of solder]
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Sean Cotoz posted on 7-9-2005 @ 04:05 AM
I think we have to wait more and observe what happpens at these cabins before we jump to
grand conclusions.
I can see reasons to want to offer security at such places, to avoid dingbats coming in and
wreaking deadly havoc trying to take advantage of our weakness during this time. I can see for
health reasons wanting to limit produce and control for now what people are being fed.
Ambulances, for the same health risk reason. Separating the sexes only because these are
dorm type cabins. I am sure this is only for bathing and sleeping reasons. Other stuff too makes
sense. But the true test is to see how things are there are in the next couple weeks... to see
what they are allowed and not-allowed to do, etc. Definately the 'lock down and taking away
your rights' possibility is there. But it's clear to me we need to observe things there over the
next few weeks before jumping to these conclusions. All this might be set up to help people in
the long run, not control them. But that's the nature of conspiracy.... seeing x, y, and z and
assuming such and such. Rather than considering other variables or do careful observation over
time.
Sean
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hbdolphin posted on 7-9-2005 @ 06:33 AM

Having read this earlier, from a friend who forwarded it... I have since spent the last several
hours, emailing and contacting everyone I know to read this..
I Have also contacted... EVERY California Senator on This, and H.Res 375., All completed as of a
few minutes ago.
I would like to thank this woman for doing what she did, and her family for everything... as well
as bringing this to the attention of the people. I feel blessed to have been given it...
I will do MY best, to help...
We can Change the World.
Mod Edit: Reduced Quote.
[edit on 7-9-2005 by Nerdling]
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Gazrok posted on 7-9-2005 @ 07:17 AM
Finally got around to reading this and....
Well....
There are no words....
Somehow, an "Applause!" just doesn't even begin to cover it....
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Souljah posted on 7-9-2005 @ 07:30 AM

Great Report!
You have voted Valhall for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have two more votes this
month.
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It seems (again we're relying a state level media that says Red Cross is running Falls Creek)
that things are quite a bit different at Camp Gruber (another refugee camp here in Oklahoma).
You need a free subscription to read the entire article in the Daily Oklahoman.
Evacuees get settled, ready to go to school
Many of the evacuees to Camp Gruber have already left for family and friends homes.
Elementary and middle-high kids remaining at the camp will attend school at Muskogee. High
school kids will attend Tahlequah - an 80 mile roundtrip!
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I wonder if they are separating the sick from the not? It does not make sence to put the sick so
far away from a hospital but hey its the Federal government
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Watchman77 posted on 7-9-2005 @ 07:57 AM
Originally posted by timski

"..how are they susposed to find jobs way out in the middle of nowhere? our fine
government at their finest....keep them dependant as long as possible.."
They could always be employed to make Nike trainers and Gap sweatshirts for $0.50 an hour,
and make a dent in the volume of cheap Far-Eastern imports.
A win/win situation, jobs for the the thousands of refugees trying to get back on their feet, and a
huge cheap labour force for the US economy
I believe many of the evacuees will be used as Union breakers...

Walmart has already said they will make jobs for many of the evacuees... Walmart is having a
lot of trouble with the Union right now, so what better way of getting their employees in line
than to threaten their jobs with people who will be willing to work for lower wages & even less
benefits?
I also live in Okla & find the goings on very ominous... I will even go a step further & suggest
that Katrina was not a "natural" occurance but was manipulated by our government in order to
create the very disaster we are seeing..
I suggest those who are interested do a Google search on REX 84 & The Rewilding of America...
also do a search on Weather Manipulation.
Another thing I would like to point out is the fact that these states that have accepted evacuees
are declaring "state of emergencies"... this puts them in line for federal money, but it also puts
them one step closer to martial law.
[edit on 7-9-2005 by Watchman77]
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DeusEx posted on 7-9-2005 @ 08:09 AM

Query!
Idle hands are a devil's plaything. So, what will the adults be doing with their time?
I mean, it's not like there's going to be a huge bank of phones for them to run around, calling
up places. I very much doubt there will be adequate computer access. I don't know about TV's
and radios, but it seems like they're going to be isolated from just about everything, with little
to do, and their children away from them. If FEMA wanted to cause an incident, this is a plenty
good way to go about doing it, so they COULD set up the fences and the guards and the dogs.
DE
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Originally posted by Watchman77
Another thing I would like to point out is the fact that these states that have accepted evacuees
are declaring "state of emergencies"... this puts them in line for federal money,
This is true. The governor of Oklahoma declared it in a state of emergency prior to receiving
refugees.
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SkepticOverlord posted on 7-9-2005 @ 08:39 AM

Originally posted by Netchicken

Valls fantastic artical emphasised that the worrying factor was the inability of the people to
leave, and for others to visit.
Let's add that a proven inept federal agency (FEMA) somehow managed to organize a
significant retooling of a privately owned getaway.
This would tend to lead ATS-thinkers in one of two directions:
1) Long standing plans existed for the rapid deployment of containment camps so that the
federal drone lackeys could quickly establish the champ.
-or-
2) A significant effort went into the creation of this camp (and presumably other camps)
seemingly before a similarly significant effort to prevent the death of trapped U.S. citizens.
Or both.
Chilling no matter how you look at it.
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HowardRoark posted on 7-9-2005 @ 08:55 AM
Or
3) The effort to organize the camp was spearheaded on a state and local level and as such
avoided the federal bureaucracy. The only thing the feds do is to provide the cash and the
“nameplate” over the door. It looks to me like this is a local effort all the way. I personally think
that this is the most likely scenario.
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pearheaded on a state and local level
That's certainly also possible. However, I suppose we might expect more compassion and
church involvement if it was 100% locally organized.
Let's hope for your analysis, but watch closely for clues of something else.
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Gazrok posted on 7-9-2005 @ 09:10 AM
High school kids will attend Tahlequah - an 80 mile roundtrip!
Sounds worse than it is... In Saudi, I had a one-way bus trip from the compound to school in
Riyadh each morning, about 70 miles (estimated, as it took us an hour and no traffic as early
morning). Then we had to do it again in the afternoon of course, 140 miles round trip!
Not that any of that compares to what ELSE these kids are going through though.... At least
they are IN school...as opposed to the ones you mentioned.....
[edit on 7-9-2005 by Gazrok]
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HowardRoark posted on 7-9-2005 @ 09:10 AM

Although on further thought, it would certainly seem reasonable to expect the disaster agencies,
both local and federal, to have contingency plans for various scenarios.
After all, that IS 90% of what they do, sit around the office planning for the next disaster.
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<< 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 >>

And so the story changes again...
www.kfor.com...
DAVIS, Okla. -- Volunteers and relief workers remain ready to receive hurricane evacuees at the
Falls Creek church camp in southern Oklahoma, but still no word on when or if the evacuees will
arrive.
They were supposed to have arrived first on Sunday night, then on Monday night. They're still
not there. Furthermore, our preacher and the host we spoke to at the cabin both stated these
refugees were coming "straight from somewhere in Louisiana" but this article states these will
be people brought from Texas (I assum from the Astrodome).
A spokeswoman for the Oklahoma Department of Emergency Management says the department
remains in contact with officials in Texas and the Federal Emergency Management Agency.
Church volunteers from around the state spent the weekend preparing the 360-acre Falls Creek
camp in Davis for as many as three-thousand evacuees. An official at the camp says the facility
is ready to provide food, medical attention, clothes and shelter for the displaced people.
Please note this is the same news agency that yesterday stated the Red Cross was working with
the SBC to meet "sheltering needs". I called the news desk yesterday and asked why they had
an article so wrought with erroneous statements. The lady I spoke with asked if I worked for
Falls Creek. I stated I didn't and explained why we had been over there on Monday. She then
says "you'll have to contact some one associated with Falls Creek organization and have them
call us in order to get this corrected". EXCUSE ME??? THAT WOULD BE YOUR JOB -
JOURNALIST!!!
Please note that today Red Cross and Salvation Army have not been mentioned, credit has been
given to the church members of the various churches who worked their nipples and nuts off
over the weekend, and the Oklahoma Emergency Management Agency and FEMA are now
referenced in this article.
hehehe...you can't keep ATS down!
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The insanity and discrepancies continue.
A member of our church was sent by the preacher with a load of supplies yesterday (the
preacher gave him his "credentials" to get in). He dropped the supplies off inside the camp. He
states there were refugees everywhere.
*sigh*
I'm going to get hold of this person later in the day and speak with him personally to find out if
he was allowed free access to the cabin or if he had to drop things at the "central warehouse".
I'll report back later. I'm getting tired of the mish-mash mess coming from the press.
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frayed1 posted on 7-9-2005 @ 09:58 AM

Wow, Val, with all the places this thread had been emailed to.......you are going to be famous!!
( can I have an autograph?! lol)
You may be the reason they've changed their story somewhat!!
Another one that might be interested is the Times Picayune in NO, they have cut FEMA noooo
slack, and might want to follow up on your lead. ( It's your story, I'll leave that up to you.)
Originally posted by Watchman77
I believe many of the evacuees will be used as Union breakers...

Walmart has already said they will make jobs for many of the evacuees... Walmart is having a
lot of trouble with the Union right now, so what better way of getting their employees in line
than to threaten their jobs with people who will be willing to work for lower wages & even less
benefits?
Not to say this would not be what Walmart has in mind......but the bit I saw was saying that
Walmart would give jobs to those evacuees that were already Walmart employees.
Edit to add: I did have another WA vote left! It's all yours!
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RyanC posted on 7-9-2005 @ 10:03 AM
Excellent postings, val, thanks for sharing all this information, a truly fascinating thing to read,
and everyone here appreciates you sharing the details of your ordeal. Best of luck and thanks
again for keeping us posted.
---Ryan

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BlindedByTheLight posted on 7-9-2005 @ 10:14 AM
All I get from reading the original post is coldness .....
To me at least, these poor people have been through hell and some.
And what you have described about these "camps" gives me the feeling of coldness.
I truely hope that the people responcible for CARING for these poor folk bend over backwards in
their efforts to help them.
I could think of nothing worse than losing everything I had, only to end up in some sanctioned
holding bay surrounded by people who where "doing their jobs" but didnt really care.
Agree with religions or not ....

It is religious people who are usually first to offer their love, support and whatever else they
can.
Hired help only goes so far - and most hired help earn their dollar and go home.
Truely caring people would make such a difference.
You and your family sound like wonderful people - the world would be a much better place if
there where more like you & yours.
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Just spoke with the church member who delivered the goods yesterday (who happens to be my
nephew). He counted at least 10 buses that had arrived and a number of refugees. No refugees
have been placed in our cabin yet. The pass he entered on was confiscated and he was
informed that there would be "new" passes and he would not be able to get back in unless he
had one of them. He phoned the preacher who confirmed he had already received the new
"official" passes (apparently the original passes were hurriedly made from something readily
available from Falls Creek and the new ones are the government issued ones, we are
supposing). He was allowed to go all the way to our cabin and did not have to offload our
church's supplies to a central location (which is good news). He did state he felt that security
was being ramped up while he was there. There were several "people in BDU's" near the front
gate when he entered. I didn't get the impression they in any way interacted with him though

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Gools posted on 7-9-2005 @ 11:27 AM
BDU's?
Thanks for the updates Val.

.
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BDU's - battle dress uniforms
external image
It's better than seeing people in their BVD's...I think.
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QuietSoul posted on 7-9-2005 @ 11:48 AM
Something's not jiving here...
September 6, 2005 – After anticipating the arrival of 3,000 survivors from Hurricane Katrina for
more than two days, volunteers and government agencies were given the word late Tuesday that
the status of operations at Falls Creek was put on standby.
Major Mike Grime, Oklahoma Highway Patrol, announced to nearly 400 volunteers and state
personnel that the decision had been made by the Governor and other state officials to
scale back operations at Falls Creek. “The good news is that it appears those who needed our
help have been taken care of for now,” Grimes explained. “We will scale back to a skeleton crew
for now, but none of our facilities will be compromised. There will be troopers present 24 hours a
day at Falls Creek as we evaluate the need on a 12, 24, 36 and 48 hour basis. Falls Creek has
been and will continue to be ready within a 10 to 12 hour window in the event that the
conference facility is still needed.” While disappointment was evident on the faces of many,

appreciation for the Falls Creek operation was recognized with a round of applause.
Following Major Grimes comments Anthony L. Jordan, executive director-treasurer of the Baptist
General Convention of Oklahoma assured the crowd that their hard work had not been in vain.
“We are and continue to be prepared in the event that we are needed. It is very possible that
you may be needed within the next 48 hours. We will notify you immediately should we need
your assistance in welcoming our Oklahoma guests to our great state,” said Jordan. “Oklahoma
has had an opportunity to look inside the hearts of Oklahoma Baptists. We are honored to have
this opportunity to serve. Our hearts are in the right place we have served our state and the
survivors by being ready. We will be here if needed.”
More than 1,200 volunteers registered for the operation at Falls Creek. Many of the volunteers
will remain on standby status in the event that they are needed within the next 48 hours.
link
So are refugees there or not?
They rent the facility for 5 months.. They hire 1200 volunteers + staff.. and then call the whole
thing off after the entire camp is mobilized and setup?
[edit on 9/7/2005 by QuietSoul]
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Gools posted on 7-9-2005 @ 11:53 AM

It's better than seeing people in their BVD's...I think.
Thanks for the answer. I'm not up on the military lingo. Though BVD's would be friendlier.
So if I understand correctly it is possible for this camp to be under the watchful eye of the
church groups with regular visits?
.
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Jessicamsa posted on 7-9-2005 @ 12:35 PM
I am new here. I just found this website today. Very interesting.
I have seen some of you post the theory that this camp may be a quarantine type of thing, but
if it were for health reasons, why would anyone be allowed to leave at all? Even if they cannot
come back?
I voted for Bush, and since the recent events as well as other issues over the past few months,
I sure would like to take that one back. I feel like I've been hit in the gut with a 2 by 4. These
recent events with Katrina really disturb me. I have a bad feeling about all of this.
I will be keeping this thread bookmarked for updates. Thanks for posting this and thanks for
having this website.
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QuietSoul,
Either your link is working or the article has been removed.
here's the correct link
Stand by
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27jd posted on 7-9-2005 @ 03:13 PM

If anything useful has come from all this, it's knowing that in a catastrophic event we are
completely on our own. The federal government is run by a bunch of complete morons, more
worried about political squabbling and their own wallets than anything else. I agree with a few
others on this thread that this is not a "detention camp" so to speak, but a very cold,
militaristic, and hastily thrown together attempt for the feds to save face, just like all the other
FEMA run shelters. The feds in charge are incapable of even the most basic forms of human
compassion and run everything in a rigid military fashion.
They are really feeling the heat, and I'm glad that so many are now realizing just how much this
administration could give a rats a** about us. It's just horrible what it cost for this to be seen.
They even had the nerve to try and blame the local officials for not responding quickly enough,
when they were dealt the same blow by the hurricane and flooding and were in no shape to deal
with something of such magnitude. They said it's up to the local and state officials to "ask" for
help from the feds, but the feds have no problem intervening in state affairs without being
asked if it is of concern to them. Then, to top it all off, Bush went on television after the flooding
and said "nobody anticipated that the levees would break", he must not have been watching TV
at all in the days leading up to the hurricanes landfall, when just about every report said the
levees would most likely break and NO would be submerged in up to 30 feet of water.
Can he really be that stupid? Or does he just think we are?
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drunkandrowdy posted on 7-9-2005 @ 03:26 PM
I have been waiting for this to happen. It doesn't surprise me at all. I am surprised they aren't
using the abandoned army bases that have been said to be prepared to be converted into
I'm waiting for them to microchip these people and everything will fall into place.
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HowardRoark posted on 7-9-2005 @ 04:23 PM

Originally posted by drunkandrowdy

I have been waiting for this to happen. It doesn't surprise me at all. I am surprised they aren't
using the abandoned army bases that have been said to be prepared to be converted into
I'm waiting for them to microchip these people and everything will fall into place.
Well, if nothing else, this thread is proof that those so-called "abandoned army bases that have
been said to be prepared to be converted into concentration camps" are just a figment of
someones over dopamined imagination.
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wecomeinpeace posted on 7-9-2005 @ 04:41 PM
FEMA is refusing to reveal to aid groups the locations of thousands of citizens forced out of their
homes by "Hurrican Charley", citing "privacy restrictions".
FEMA Rule Blocking Aid to Seniors - www.heraldtribune.com
Some elderly citizens forced out of their homes by Hurricane Charley are missing out on vital help,
including meals, transportation and in-home care, because federal officials won't tell government aid
groups where they are.
The Federal Emergency Management Agency has temporarily relocated thousands of Charlotte County
residents -- many of them senior citizens -- whose homes were destroyed or seriously damaged by the
Aug. 13 storm. But, citing federal privacy protection rules, the agency has refused to say who has
been relocated, or where they've been sent.
Travis and other officials said their complaints to FEMA officials have gone nowhere. But in response to
an inquiry about the problem Tuesday, FEMA deputy federal coordinating officer Brad Gair vowed to
find a way to ensure hurricane victims' privacy while getting them access to services.
Please visit the link provided for the complete story.

Where have these people gone??
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LazarusTheLong posted on 7-9-2005 @ 05:53 PM
This is all so messed up...

First off, thanks Val, for saving me a trip... now I can see my pickup bed full of beer, wouldn't
have been appreciated... (the troops would have loved me though)
As of last word from my personal FEMA contractor (girlfriend)... they are still under the
impression that they are on stand down... all the way from the top... they were getting too
much critism of people being moved/treated like cattle, (better than being caged like veal)...
Who knows... Maybe this thread did get around to the right (wrong) people.
on a very sad note... one of my girlfriends co-workers (bosses sister) is a attendee at falls creek
(and "Christian baptist"), and just couldn't beleive "they were letting all THOSE people use her
sacred church camp... beyond disgusting, they are gonna ruin it with all their trash, and filth".
yep, even in the babtists... there are bigoted morons...
By the way... it was all my girlfriend could do, to hold her tongue (and save her job)...
I wish all christians could be like you Val...
from the Big Guy: I assure you, when you refused to help the least of these my brothers and
sisters, you were refusing to help me.' And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the
righteous will go into eternal life."
[edit on 7-9-2005 by LazarusTheLong]
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nuckfuts posted on 7-9-2005 @ 06:07 PM
Originally posted by Jessicamsa

I voted
best joke i've heard all week.
[edit on 7-9-2005 by nuckfuts]
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I just got back from my Alma Mater San Jose State University where 50 2 bedroom dorm units
have been made ready For 100 people they expect from the disaster. I know the chair of the
Nursing department there adn I lecture there from time to time so I got some inside scoup. The
city of San Jose is paying for this not FEMA nor were the dorm "donated" as its a state school.
However, she had just got back from a briefing given to the department heads about the
pending move. No restrictions on movement and they can come and go, explore the city, see
the sights as thier means allow. Food will be provided by the SJSU cafeteria that prepares the
dorm food. (ugg lucky them :barf . A shuttle service is being set up to get them to the nearest
hosptial if care is needed (Santa Clara Valley Medical Center) Critical care pediatrics will come to
us at Packard Childrens.
This really contrasts dramaticaly with the conditions you have chronicled in this post. LA, SF and
San Diego are also expecting people as well and I have not as of yet heard of thier plans.
The questions that have come up:
1) Could this camp in OK simply be the interpretation of some FEMA mid level drone that has
gone off the reservation?
2) If they are forcibly relocating these people why the dramaticaly different setups in terms of
camps.
Btw, I pulled up this thread and she was a little disturbed by it.

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Don't know what the difference is, Fred. But it appears that this camp is being "pulled" from the
list.
I think that might be a good idea at this point.
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<< 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 >>

An awful lot of screening going on..

Here's something from a nearby newspaper:
Arrivals from NOLA
I truly think a mistake was made early on...and there are some serious criminals
intermingled with those who just want help..
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jayfo posted on 7-9-2005 @ 10:11 PM
detainment
I have first-hand knowledge that the st. bernard prison emptied itself of all misdemeanor
inmates on sunday, the day before the hurricane at around sundown. the doors were opened
personal effects distributed and they walked away. no rides.
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Valhall
Keep up the good work, and keep up with the updates. This thread and your story is being seen
by more and more people every day.
I just found a link to this thread from the cuttingedge.org on their daily news updates for
September 7, 2005 right near the top in the first section. They have 50+ news headlines per
day with a large readership. I imagine it will be showing up other places as well.
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Originally posted by jayfo

Just walked away?..Misdemeanors only though..

interesting, can you say how you came about this knowledge?
copyright & usage

jayfo. Welcome to ATS.

Statements like that need to be backed up. I highly doubt that the LA correctional authorities
simply opened the cell doors and said "go on git'outta here". The day before the storm? At most
they were bused to another prison, not set loose.
Please stay on topic.
[edit on 9/7/2005 by Gools]
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jayfo posted on 7-9-2005 @ 10:35 PM
I'm the trial defense counsel for camp shelby. one of my clients was AWOL and kept at the
prison awaiting military transportback here. He came to me from the red cross kinda shaken up
because he was left to his own devices during a hurricane. I know for a fact that he should not
be walking the streets. he should have been escorted into military custody. I cannot find any
other possibility explaining how he is not in civilian custody; also, don't think this soldier was
lying. He was upset and not what you'd call a flight risk.
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I think jayfo is on topic.

Val is wondering about the treament of people in the camp.
Would not a theory, that some might be "released prisoners" be a
possible factor in the way people are being treated?
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sosuemetoo posted on 7-9-2005 @ 11:09 PM


I'm the trial defense counsel for camp shelby. one of my clients was AWOL and kept at the
prison awaiting military transportback here. He came to me from the red cross kinda shaken up
because he was left to his own devices during a hurricane. I know for a fact that he should not
be walking the streets. he should have been escorted into military custody. I cannot find any
other possibility explaining how he is not in civilian custody; also, don't think this soldier was
lying. He was upset and not what you'd call a flight risk.
Let me get this straight.

Basically according to the your client... the prisons were cleared out of anyone with
misdemeanors, and given their personal effects and told they were on their own.
What did they do with the rest of the inmates? Where were they transported to?
What am I missing here?
I'll probably be the first one voted for the "way below no secret award"
[edit on 7-9-2005 by sosuemetoo]
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JacKatMtn posted on 7-9-2005 @ 11:10 PM
Outstanding work Val and very good first hand reporting, and while I would have felt the same
suspicions had I been in you & your families shoes, I as a military man cannot believe that if
this was to be somekind of a containment camp that you and your good intentions would have
even gotten within 10 miles of the camp and there would certainly wouldn't have been OKSP
guarding the entrance, I do lean toward the possibility that it is under tighter scrutiny (for
health & medical reasons), preplanning for a possible cholera or other waterborne disease is a
responsibility of this recovery, it may not sound right being that this is the US but I don't care
how much you prepare for possible events, GOD always has the upper hand and if He chooses
to unleash his wrath, nothing of the earth is up to the task....even the mighty US...
Now there is the beginning of blame for this storm and its aftermath, many people will believe
what the politicians' say, I do not, I understand what has happened and all I want is those yet
to be rescued, rescued, those who wish to stay, let them stay, you want New Orleans to be
again, take the time to haul in plenty of rock and soil and fill it to the top of the levees and once
you have firm ground "above sea level", build the city again......
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Originally posted by sosuemetoo
Let me get this straight.

Basically according to the your client... the prisons were cleared out of anyone with
misdemeanors, and given their personal effects and told they were on their own.
What did they do with the rest of the inmates? Where were they transported to?
What am I missing here?
I'll probably be the first one voted for the "way below no secret award"
I know this was not directed at me but:
why would you say "way below no secret"?
With all the other screw ups, do you think that the ONLY thing that was taken care of properly
were the inmates? Is it possible that there could have been a screw up there too?
I'm just saying that between the things that Val was saying, and the article I read in my local
paper..It seems there is some heightened paranoia. That people are being checked out and
monitored more closely than I would have suspected..
copyright & usage
MERC posted on 8-9-2005 @ 12:15 AM

"You have voted Valhall for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have one more vote
left for this month"
Thanks for writing this up, Valhall. That was a really good read. I genuinly believe your story,
and I agree with the points you made, for sure.
[edit on 123030p://170912 by MERC]
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ainitfunny posted on 8-9-2005 @ 04:28 AM
The REAL significance of this ONE Experimental shelter model.
Actually the prescedent and model is the Japanese-American Internment Camps. But our
government has become much craftier and powerful since then.
I will point out a few possible "alternative reasons for some rules."
The reason you don't allow cooking is that people treated so oppressively in such a place very
likely will do what ANY FREE PERSON so treated would do; BURN THE FRIGGIN CAMP DOWN.
Erego the internees will not be allowed access to anything that could start a fire. No cooking, no
smoking no matches, no lighters probably no magnifying glasses either
I believe that the fact that these people will not be allowed access to fire is a prime bit of
probable evidence that the assertion that they will be "ALLOWED TO LEAVE. BUT NOT COME
BACK" baloney is just that- BALONEY, for a credulous public. I believe it means they will NOT BE
ALLOWED TO LEAVE. If they really were "guests" (allowed to leave) and not "prisoners" the
authorities would not be so afraid of their burning the place down. Prisoners do that.
Permitting them to cook would have also necessitated allowing them access to metal knives,
forks, and spoons, which the authorities might fear might be made into weapons (to help them
free themselves?) Thus all cutlery will likely be plastic.
But, ASIDE FROM EVERYTHING PREVIOUSLY DISCUSSED WE MUST SOUND THE ALARM ABOUT
THE MOST REAL, OBVIOUS, DANGEROUS SIGNIFICANCE OF THIS SOLITARY CAMP
This SHOULD GIVE YOU NIGHTMARES:

WHY?
Because this camp model shows that, if given absolute power and control of all variables in an
isolated social model and framework, (like FEMA would have had at this camp,) the Feds
believed the best, most harmonious community model of government, The one THAT OUR
GOVERNMENT, THROUGH (FEMA) WOULD CHOOSE TO INSTALL IS AN OPPRESSIVE
COMMUNIST MODEL WHICH THEY MUST VIEW AS THE BEST, MOST IDEAL WAY TO GOVERN
AND PROVIDE SAFETY, SECURITY, EQUALITY, PEACE AND HAPPINESS IN THAT CAMP!
[B]Folks, If the Feds DO think oppressive communism is the best way for people to be governed
to obtain maximum security, peace, progress and success then: WE NOW HAVE THE WRONG
GOVERNMENT FOR AMERICA![/B]
Therefore, if that is true, we can expect that, in the future, the more power the Feds get, the
more they will try to exert it to shape America along the "fairest" most "peaceful",most
controllable Communist model.
Actually, I forsee a PARALLEL SYSTEM emerging: Communism administered and dictated by the
elite for the worker classes AND Cutthroat Capitalism for the segregated upper, wealthy class
(not classes) no middle class.
__________________
Defending and enabling your government playing deceptive semantics with the law and truth
can be hazardous to YOUR health.
[edit on 8-9-2005 by ainitfunny]
copyright & usage
It appears something similar to what has occurred here - where the state and local people have
rushed to organize facilities and then FEMA has all of a sudden called off sending evacuees - has
occurred in several states.
www.newsok.com.../main
Gov. Brad Henry said his counterparts across the country are frustrated at Federal Emergency
Management Agency officials who told Oklahoma late Tuesday to back off plans to receive

thousands more of Hurricane Katrina evacuees.
Henry participated in a conference call early Wednesday between state governors, U.S.
Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff and FEMA
director Mike Brown, who faces growing criticism for his handling of the
hurricane aftermath. About 18 governors asked questions, Henry said.
“Every state has had the same experience,” Henry said. “Some of the
stories I’ve heard from other states are worse.”
State officials and volunteers prepared to house as many as 3,000 evacuees at the Falls Creek
Conference Center, a 350-acre site operated by the Baptist General Convention of Oklahoma
near Davis.
The federal agency, charged with coordinating disaster response,

repeatedly changed its story on when, if ever, evacuees would arrive at
Falls Creek.
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amb1063 posted on 8-9-2005 @ 06:09 AM
this thread just keeps getting more and more bizarre...............as if the ORIGINAL posting
wasn't enough to weird me out for days............all these updates from you VALHALL are just
bizarre.
first it IS a camp..........now its NOT...........no maybe............well not for sure because FEMA
can't get their heads on straight..........
i tell ya.........the head of FEMA really needs to go back and find his old job working with
ARABIAN HORSES. .................oh WAIT..........he got FIRED from that one didn't he???
he's blown through a TON of money.........just in his total disorganization and pathetic
planning...........i'd be curious to know what the cost was of the org just in your church camp
area...............the phone lines.........cell towers.......all the prep work that wasn't done by your
gracious church members......having all those fire trucks, ambulances w/ emts and state and
hwy patrol officers just kindda hanging around.............
this is just more disturbing every new piece of info that comes out.......and now to see FEMA
has 18 other states have similar situations........
gggeeesssshhhhhhh what a mess.
thanks again valhall............you are doing great work by keeping us all informed of what's
going on in OK.
angie
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amb1063 posted on 8-9-2005 @ 06:11 AM
You have voted Valhall for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have two more votes
this month.
you have my vote!!! thanks again for your excellent reporting!!
angie
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This thing just is killing me. It is not going to surprise me when the governors take over. I mean
truly just kick FEMA out of the situation.
Governor Perry in Texas is pleading for help. He's got every convention center in Houston
packed with people sleeping in a communal space with no privacy, not even a semblance of
dignity. THERE IS NOTHING DIGNIFIED ABOUT HAVING TO SLEEP AMONG 12000 PEOPLE ON
AN ARENA FLOOR.
He needs help. He needs to start moving these people out of this situation. He calls for help and
the good governors of the surrounding states step up to help him. BUT FEMA SCREWS IT UP.
Falls Creek, if used PROPERLY, LOGICALLYand PRAGMATICALLY, and with what should be the
utmost priority of moving the most people to the best environment in the quickest manner,
would be the BEST processing site anyone could pick. If the camp was used to house people for
no more than 2 to 3 weeks while you are finding them an apartment and getting all their needs
set up through entitlements, it would be a pleasant, peaceful place that would at least give
some semblance of dignity and community versus a FARKING ARENA FLOOR.
But NOOOOO, even if the "host" was dead wrong and these people were going to be allowed to
come and go after some "processing" period, this is not a place you take 3000 urban dwellers
and stick themf or 5 months! And even if they "come and go" it would be limited because it
would have to be scheduled bus runs to places.
If farking FEMA isn't working to get ever single displaced person into an apartment or house in
some metropolitan area as quickly as they possibly can - THEY ARE CONTINUING TO SCREW
THESE PEOPLE!
Let's just say there are a 1/2 million people who need to be placed in long-term housing and all
a full entitlement package (food stamps, aid for dependent children, medicaid, housing and
utilities). The whole farking package would be $5000/month or less. And assuming that each of
the 1/2 million people got their own apartment (which isn't so because there are families) that's
2.5 billion/month. FEMA's SPENDING 1/2 BILLION A DAY!
AND - to say that the 2.5 billion/month was all due to Katrina would be flying crock of #
because with 25% of New Orlean's population under the national poverty line A WHOLE
HEAPING HELPING OF THESE PEOPLE WERE ALREADY ON A FULL ENTITLEMENT PACKAGE!
These people need to be moved 3000 at a time out of the humiliating environment that Barbara
Bush thinks is "good" to places like this camp for no longer than 2 - 3 weeks and then MOVED
INTO HOUSING. There's Dallas, Houston, San Antonio, Austin, OKC, Tulsa, Ft. Smith,
Shreveport/Bossier City, Little Rock, Memphis, Louisville.
Start treating them like people! PULL YOUR HEADS OUT OF YOUR ASSES!!!
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If I recall correctly, If a prison dies in your care during a storm you can be charged with
manslaughter.

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mrsdudara posted on 8-9-2005 @ 07:07 AM
I did a search and found this at feeds.oklahomacitynews.net...
``Once our guests from the Gulf Coast walk off the bus they will be welcomed with a warm
Oklahoma smile and a 'Bucket of Blessing', a care-package type bucket full of essential items,
snacks, books and toys, all prepared by our church members,'' Jordan said.
Sanders said a variety of activities are planned for the evacuees, including movies, crafts,
recreation and relaxation.
``Within the coming days we fully expect school-age children to be back in an educational
setting with a variety of learning experiences available for adults as well,'' he said.
State Superintendent of Schools Sandy Garrett said the Department of Education is working to
reduce bureaucratic barriers that would prevent their placement in an Oklahoma public school.
Michelann Ooten, spokeswoman for the Oklahoma Department of Emergency Management, said
The Salvation Army will provide clothing and the Oklahoma Veterinarian Association and the
Oklahoma City Animal Shelter will provide housing for any animals that accompany the
evacuees.
It also goes on to say that travel agencies are working together with the red cross to find food
and clothing for the evacuees at falls creek.
So, maybe it will be ok. They said the first group arived Saturday night.
I am just going to pray everything works out great for these people.
[edit on 8-9-2005 by mrsdudara]
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No mrs....they didn't arrive Saturday night. And please note that the statements made in that
article were made by the Falls Creek leader PRIOR to FEMA telling them how it would REALLY
be.
All weekend church members worked to fill these "buckets of blessings" and to ready this camp
to PAMPER these people and dote on them as long as they needed to. Then - Monday came and
a big phat reality check.
I've got to tell you at this point I'm not sure the deal wasn't busted on the Falls Creek side
instead of the FEMA side. I'm serious. I have more pictures of our time in there than what I've
posted on this thread. One picture my daughter took was of one of the top men at Falls Creek...
one of the people in charge. As we turned the corner which led us passed the troops this man
was standing with two other men who appeared to work for Falls Creek. This man was VISIBLE
ANGRY. I noticed his face as I turned the corner, but did not know who he was. My daughter
knows him. She goes "OH my gosh, mommy! There's (I forget his name). Oh my gosh! Look
how mad he is! Oh my gosh!" And she snaps the picture.
She later told me that he is a very happy person who she has only seen get angry one time
before and it was over some situation that had been reported out of Germany where the
German government had pulled something with some southern baptist missionaries. But she
followed up - He wasn't near as mad as he looked yesterday!
I personally have to state that I don't want the camp used for a 5 month holding facility.
Wouldn't that just be f-ing great to have horror stories come out of a southern baptist camp?
And I also have to say I'm not sure this whole 5 month holding plan wasn't chosen for this camp
BECAUSE OF THAT. So that if anything went wrong, or the whole experiment went bad FEMA
could just blame it on those crazy fundamentalist, evangelical southern baptists!
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clearmind posted on 8-9-2005 @ 08:05 AM

seems like attention may have delayed something in this case...
gosh val..maybe you did stumble into a fema detention facility. as evacuees/refugesare id'd..
they will be 'undesirables' around. maybe fema wants a place to put them, rather that let them
sit in local jails. this area would be a perfect place..very secluded.
if i am reading the articles right...they say they are not using the camp? but your friend saw
busses in camp, but i don't recall him seeing any 'evacuees'......
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<< 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 >>

Originally posted by clearmind

seems like attention may have delayed something in this case...
gosh val..maybe you did stumble into a fema detention facility. as evacuees/refugesare id'd..
they will be 'undesirables' around. maybe fema wants a place to put them, rather that let them
sit in local jails. this area would be a perfect place..very secluded.
if i am reading the articles right...they say they are not using the camp? but your friend saw
busses in camp, but i don't recall him seeing any 'evacuees'......
More details on that. He stated he saw about 10 buses total. 2 of those were large charter
buses and the others were "smaller", but larger than school buses - these buses were white and
he didn't see any kind of markings on them. I asked him if they were the Falls Creek shuttle
buses (which are old school buses painted white and have "Falls Creek Shuttle" painted on the
side and front). He said "No! No, They weren't Falls Creek buses, and they were bigger than
those.) He states he saw some where between 50 and 100 people standing in a rather scattered
fashion, but in the same general area. Almost all of these people were african-american and
they were loitering about as if they were waiting for something to happen....i.e. they weren't
"doing anything" like they were workers or such. 50 to 100 people would be just about right for
two greyhound buses - especially if people had any belongings with them.
copyright & usage
Mystery_Lady posted on 8-9-2005 @ 11:09 AM

Val, I saw one of those type of busses for the first time in my life the other day I believe headed
toward's Route 28 more than likely towards Pittsburgh. It was all white with no markings. It was
longer than a 72 passanger bus with black windows on the sides. It even seemed longer than
than the newer 84 passanger busses. It looked like it was lower than a regular bus. It reminded
me of a limo. It almost looked like they took a long amtrak train and put regular wheels on it. It
was all sleek and smooth.
Because the windows were so dark, I do not know if there were any passangers on it or if it was
running empty. I haven't seen another one since. These might be some type of special busses
FEMA are using, or maybe just a new bus design that most of us haven't seen before.
copyright & usage
Keep up the great work people. This thread represents many attributes of ATS membership at
its finest.
The interest in this thread has been very intense. We're currently experiencing the highest
guest traffic in the history of ATS, beginning at about noon yesterday. And this morning,
someone posted a snippet and link on BoingBoing (caution, ads on BoingBoing may not be
"work safe")
copyright & usage
Dr Doom posted on 8-9-2005 @ 12:55 PM

This is incredible.
Well,
I have been trough several posts on this forum and read twice this information, I can only say
that there's something going on, "riots" they say, for crying out loud, they're bringing people
there, not animals. Besides, they are human beings with the hability to think right? So, by
saying that "...they are not going to be allowed to use kitchens because of fire hazard..." I beg
your pardon you all powerful FEMA know-it-alls, what did this people cook on before this
disaster? wood and fire on their frontyards? Have they never used a stove or kitchen apliances
before? Geez... Hittler would be proud of them, really. Come on, these people lived in New
Orleans for many many time, as far as I know nobody ever beat up its neighboor just because
they decided to have a steak on a sunday afternoon while they had a hotdog or a hamburger or
a salad. Please!! Come to think about it. As FEMA sees it, these people ate all the same thing
everyday, that's why New Orleans was such a nice place... GOOD GOD. Tell me, what did you
had today for lunch? What did your neighboor next door? Let's say you had chicken and
potatoes, let's say your neighboor had salad and toast. I guess you won't see your neighboor
come and knock you senseless because you had chicken and they didn't. right?
Can't go out? Why? What's their felony? Losing everything they hard worked to get because of a
natural disaster? Well, guess we didn't knew until now that this is a federal offense, so the next
time there's a hurricane, an earthquake or a volcano incident and you lose all of your
possesions be careful, you and your family probably be on the FBI's and your local police "Most
Wanted" list.
I think this should go out to the media, and SOMEONE should give a reasonable and very
detailed explanation about this. What I have read here today is really unbelievable, there's a lot
of people needing help, needing food, clothes, medicines, counseling, but no, FEMA said:
"Thank you but we don't need your help". Guess they're pretty wealthy so they can do
everything on their own... or pretty stupid and have no idea of what the hell they are doing!!!
I'll choose the last one, you say which you choose. To this person who did this report, good
work. It's time someone shows the reality.
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WyrdeOne posted on 8-9-2005 @ 02:04 PM

SO
Server upgrades became a self-fulfilling prophecy, eh? You guys caused the flooding, didn't you,
to test the servers? I'm sure of it. (I had to claim ONE original wild theory before this thing
resolves itself)
Doom
I have been trough several posts on this forum and read twice this information, I can only say
that there's something going on, "riots" they say, for crying out loud, they're bringing people
there, not animals.
There may indeed be something going on. I thought at first that it could be medical
experiments, but now I'm not so sure.
And for the record, people are animals.
Besides, they are human beings with the hability to think right?
I can already tell, one paragraph into your rant, that you give the human race, as a whole,
entirely too much credit.
So, by saying that "...they are not going to be allowed to use kitchens because of fire hazard..."
I beg your pardon you all powerful FEMA know-it-alls, what did this people cook on before this
disaster? wood and fire on their frontyards? Have they never used a stove or kitchen apliances
before?
People do some incredibly stupid stuff, honestly, you'd be amazed. Landlords can tell you, it's a
nightmare sometimes. Some people are very inconsiderate of others, and seemingly oblivious to
the consequences of their actions. It's not all of us, but it's a large enough contingent to insure
problems at every turn.
I think the issue may have been with the church, not being able to get their insurance to cover
the use of stoves by refugees, but I have no way of knowing. It could very well be FEMA trying
to protect themselves from a lawsuit.
It could be something more sinister, but I'm leaning towards a simpler explanation at the
moment.
Geez... Hittler would be proud of them, really.
That's taking it a little too far. This is a far cry from the death camps. If we get to that stage, I'll
be the first to admit it, but we aint there yet.
Come on, these people lived in New Orleans for many many time, as far as I know nobody ever
beat up its neighboor just because they decided to have a steak on a sunday afternoon while
they had a hotdog or a hamburger or a salad.
Not to pry, but have you ever lived in a heavily populated urban area? People have been killed
for dollars, CENTS, shoes, bikes, jackets, TEETH, and yes, food.
I personally think the rule is a bad idea. Most rules are. However, I also take exception to your
claim that there will definitely not be riots. There very well could be, regardless of the food
situation.
Please!! Come to think about it. As FEMA sees it, these people ate all the same thing everyday,
that's why New Orleans was such a nice place... GOOD GOD. Tell me, what did you had today for
lunch? What did your neighboor next door? Let's say you had chicken and potatoes, let's say
your neighboor had salad and toast. I guess you won't see your neighboor come and knock you
senseless because you had chicken and they didn't. right?
It's pretty silly, yeah. Probably nothing bad would happen because of outside food, probably.
However, it is possible. But, like I said, I still think people should be able to donate food. Did
you hear about all that beef that spoiled because FEMA never went to pick it up? I read
something about that the other day...
Can't go out? Why? What's their felony? Losing everything they hard worked to get because of a
natural disaster? Well, guess we didn't knew until now that this is a federal offense, so the next
time there's a hurricane, an earthquake or a volcano incident and you lose all of your possesions
be careful, you and your family probably be on the FBI's and your local police "Most Wanted" list.
They can go out. If they do, they can't come back in. I think this is probably designed to limit
FEMA's culpability when its 'charges' are 'off-base.' I believe FEMA could be held liable, and by
extension the federal government could be held liable, if one of the people under their care
were to die due to some preventable negligence on the part of the feds.
Now, that being said, I disagree completely with the policy. I think it's a recipe for disaster. This
is going to get worse before it gets better, I'm pretty sure.
I would have no problem with this rule if the evacuations weren't mandatory, but they are! So
these people are being forced to leave, and then forced into confinement, or forced into exile.
They have three bad choices, basically.
I think we know one thing for sure, the number of transients just increased by several
thousand, if not several hundred thousand. Transients are like bug spray against government
roaches, the Gov. can't keep track of these people, can't suck them dry, can't control them, or
influence them with culture trends and 'pop' everything. The government doesn't want those
people to be transients, so it's going to do everything in its power to keep them within an
ordered system. (This is where the camps come in)
Again, I disagree completely with the decision to keep these people hostage in remote areas.
However, I can appreciate the rationale behind the decision. It's a much different set of

parameters when you try to look at the question from the standpoint of the government.
I think this should go out to the media, and SOMEONE should give a reasonable and very
detailed explanation about this.
If it should, it will. People will take the time to do something about the situation..or they won't.
Apathy is at all time highs in America right now, so this may all go off without a hitch for the
government. We'll see...
What I have read here today is really unbelievable, there's a lot of people needing help, needing
food, clothes, medicines, counseling, but no, FEMA said: "Thank you but we don't need your
help".
Yeah, the refusal to accept donations is mind-boggling. It's gotta be a liability issue, because I
can't think of another good explanation. They're talking about riots, but I think they're really
concerned about something else. Not sure what yet...
Guess they're pretty wealthy so they can do everything on their own... or pretty stupid and have
no idea of what the hell they are doing!!!
Yeah, FEMA is a grossly engorged leech on the budget, all part of this collossal security
apparatus that's developed a mind of its own. People would be much better off depending on
themselves, but it's a decision everyone has to make for themselves.
Some people like being slaves to their own creation, for whatever reason.
I think another issue that needs discussing is the current state of the media, with all their info-
tainment and news-operas, it's past the point of ridiculous, and bordering on the insulting.
Journalists haven't disappeared, the market for their product has. The news somehow got it in
their head that they had to compete with video games, movies, and sitcoms. Journalism isn't
even really for the people of this day and age, it's for history. Journalists have a responsibility to
history, and the vast majority understand the profound nature of their job. It's the media
outlets that have lost all respect for history, lost all respect for themselves.
Everyone dropped their respectability in a mad scramble for ratings and advertising dollars. The
journalists remain, the desire for truth remains, but the audience is lost in the wilderness of
entertainment.
copyright & usage
Hey guys,
I just want you all to know I just turned down an interview with NPR about this story. I wanted
you to know so that you would understand that people do listen to us. And we do have a voice.
And we can make a difference. I also wanted to say how grateful I am that NPR was willing to
give me the opportunity to discuss this. I'm sorry that I couldn't do it though. NPR couldn't
afford me anonymity and I just don't feel personally comfortable with discussing this in my real
name.
I hope everybody understands.
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Nerdling posted on 8-9-2005 @ 02:55 PM


Hey guys,
name.
Totally understandable Val.
Gone are the days of anonymity!
copyright & usage

I do.
No problem.
NPR and the rest of the press can go have a look for themselves and conduct a few off camera
interviews.
You got the word out.

.

copyright & usage

NPR couldn't afford me anonymity and I just don't feel personally comfortable with discussing
this in my real name.
Of course. Besides, you've already gone above and beyond in my books.
copyright & usage
LDragonFire posted on 8-9-2005 @ 03:14 PM
These camps are soooo un-American, but are they. Unfortunately America has a history of
rounding people up and herding them into camps{Gitmo}, or reservations{Indians}, interment
camps{Japanese during WWII}...this Sucks.
Why are they treating these people as if they are prisoners? They are Americans, They have
rights, or at least they used to.
This kinda crap needs to stop!
Good Thread Valhal quote: You have voted Valhall for the Way Above Top Secret award. You
have two more votes this month. twice
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FallenFromTheTree posted on 8-9-2005 @ 03:35 PM
This thread is certainly getting lots of attention.
Just try running a Google search fema camp

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soficrow posted on 8-9-2005 @ 03:40 PM

Hey guys,
name.
Good work anyway.
Just keep it up, and someday we will all be able to speak freely - using our real names.
Thanks.
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Reporter posted on 8-9-2005 @ 04:58 PM
Val Hall
Since the contact was made I have edited out the post
[edit on 8-9-2005 by Amuk]
copyright & usage
drunkandrowdy posted on 8-9-2005 @ 05:04 PM

Yeah a posted a few links to this thread on myspace yesterday. They have been talking about
this over there too.
copyright & usage
Okay - will do.
*Same here*
[edit on 8-9-2005 by Amuk]
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QuietSoul posted on 8-9-2005 @ 08:45 PM
Just saw this thread linked on Alternet's homepage..
And a ton of personal blogs as well.. awesome!
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Carpenter posted on 8-9-2005 @ 08:51 PM

Great report Val, you got my vote for Way Above.
I hope this dosen't come out wrong, but I hope this isn't true. If it is, then the # has not just hit
the fan, but the cow itself has. I fear that your report may be accurate, since one of the guys
who is going to my school (Quite a few are, they are in the Frank Irwan Center if memory
serves) after the disaster said something about "Not being let out of the cabin he was in" before
he got to the Irwan Center. He seemed kinda spooked by it, and mentioned that they didn't
have nearly enough food and clothes where he was.
Now, this could just be PTSD on his part, which I feel is fully possible. But he seemed pretty
sure that the cabin ground him and his family was stationed on wasn't supplied adequatly or
well managed. He said that FEMA personell were in new uniforms and using stuff that looked
like it was fresh out of the box though.
I suspect that the reason that FEMA is asking for cash is because its a 'charitable cause' and
therby bypasses quite a few tax laws. It seems like it would actaully be easier for someone to
give them a $1000 check as opposed to a wad of $20's. But nope, they prefer good ol' pure,
almost untracable cash.
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shoot.
I was going to take a look at the newspapers Website..

Is it alright to mention the name of that reporter's Newspaper?
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Originally posted by spacedoubt

shoot.
I was going to take a look at the newspapers Website..

Is it alright to mention the name of that reporter's Newspaper?
Daily Oklahoman
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Thanks Val..
Looks like you have to register to see..I'll do it later..
I've seen some accounts of this camp being told to "stand down"
Is that what you are hearing?
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<< 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 >>

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<< 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 >>
shadow watcher posted on 8-9-2005 @ 09:47 PM

You have voted Valhall for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have two more votes
this month.
As always Val, your diligence underscores why we are here.

Thank you is the best I can do for you and your family. But when my kids ask me
about the world, rest assured your story will be an example of how people can step up
when needed.
copyright & usage
Nevada shelters have been put on standby.

Thats why I am asking about OK...
Nevada on standby
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EastCoastKid posted on 8-9-2005 @ 10:15 PM


I'm extremely depressed to report that things seem to only be getting sadder concerning the
people so devastatingly affected by Katrina last week. Two car loads of us headed over to Falls
Creek, a youth camp for Southern Baptist churches in Oklahoma that agreed to have its facilities
used to house Louisiana refugees. I'm afraid the camp is not going to be used as the kind people
of the churches who own the cabins believe it was going to be used.
Can you please send me a u2u with that church organization's address and phone number?
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Valhall,
A stunning article, and one that sends a chill down my spine..I cant help but wonder why the 5
month time-frame though. Could this be an estimate of how long a program of intensive
counselling would take?
To lose everything..job/family/home/identity..would be such a psychological shock that
containment in a secure environment (much like a psychiatric ward) would be necessary until a
stable level of mental health is reached and the individual feels able to reintegrate into society..
You have voted Valhall for the Way Above Top Secret award.
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msnevil posted on 9-9-2005 @ 12:07 AM

Just like to mention.>
In Case of a National Disaster. The Government has Policies and procedures.
To
1)Stop the spread of Disease.

2)Decrease the chances of Crime.
3)Stop the Spread of Anarchy.
1) Has anybody watch the movie "outbreak"?
One of the policies of any Federal Government is to stop the spread of Contagious diseases. Like
Ebola.
Such a Case leads to quarantine and Isolation. And if there is a Risk for a National Epidemic.
The Infected will be isolated and destroyed. For the Good of the Community.
Also, Any surplus material Like Food Can and will result in food poisoning. Clothes Need to be
Radiated to decrease the Chance of Diseases with the Immune deficient. Resulting from Various
diseases. Like Tuberculosis. Toys must be washed and cleansed. Etc. All precautions need to be
met. To limit the spread of infectious diseases.
2)Increased Lawlessness results from the lack of necessities and law enforcement.
If Your Child is starving to death, And your next door Neighbor has Food. Would you Steal or
Murder For that Food? Of Course, you would.
Exp. There was sufficient food in Somalia to Feed the Starving. But the transport of that Food to
The Starving never Happened. Local Warlords seized the Food and Gave it to well Fed loyalists.
In Such a case Common law needs to be established and enforced. Again, For the Good of the
Community.
3)Anarchy can lead to organized open Revolt. And Uncle Sam hates native "Revolutionaries".
See "Civil War, Whisky rebellion, Waco, etc."
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blablablaxyz posted on 9-9-2005 @ 02:29 AM

"It looks like you've got about 10 apples there. I'm about to bring in 40 men. What would we do
then?"
"Quarter them."
Brilliant.
The latest Nimmo has a reference to Valhall's post. Only 6% of FEMA's budget is spent on
emergencies, apparently.
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therainmaker posted on 9-9-2005 @ 03:49 AM
Greetings all,
I joined this forum for the specific reason of this thread, which I became aware of through the
John Titor Yahoo mailing list. I take great interest in all things suppressed by the media, finding
that the truth is often so well-hidden that it takes an act of genius to ever know it.
Since I am relatively certain that I am posting in anonymity, I thought I'd share some firsthand
information.
I live in the (debatably) great state of Massachusetts. I am an NCO in a Military Police unit of
the MA Army National Guard. I joined eleven years ago to serve a nation and people that I was
proud of...and as of about a year ago made up my mind not to reenlist when the time comes.
Before I digress... As some of you in New England may be aware, we were supposed to receive
2500 "guests" at Camp Edwards on Cape Cod. There was some disagreement on a state-federal
level that I choose not to get into because I was very close to the argument and I am not sure
what facts I can disclose without anyone being able to narrow down my identity. In the end, the
state "won", if you will, and thus far Camp Edwards has only received about 330 "guests".

Now this is what bothers me...before I even knew this thread existed, this past Sunday I was
speaking to a friend (also an NCO in my company) who is a police officer in one of the towns
that borders Camp Edwards. Since he'd be most likely to be involved in any security-related
operation of the "guests" being accommodated, he was able to tell me some interesting things.
Please understand I am choosing my words VERY carefully here, folks. What he told me was
that there was talk of needing lots and lots of security for the (then-anticipated) 2500 refugees.
He said that the expected security requirements went far beyond even activating all of the
remaining non-active Guardsmen in our entire battalion, to the point where retired DoD police
and former MPs from all services would be asked to assist because they already had security
clearance. I admit I did not question precisely WHY so much security would be needed, but my
friend stated that furthurmore his department along with other towns bordering Camp Edwards
were told to have their officers briefed and provided with detailed maps to know exactly where
the perimeter for the base was (in terms of where it ran through residential neighborhoods,
through woodlands, etc.) IN CASE ANYONE ESCAPES from the refugee area. That was the exact
message given to the officers. I believe he was even throwing around the word "prisoners"
during our conversation. Now this gentleman is a very quiet, serious, laid-back type, not prone
to hyperbole at all, so I can not imagine he was exaggerating or fabricating anything. He even
said that the tone of his police chief was so serious that he was fearing for the safety of his
family should anyone ESCAPE from the compound, and was having his wife and children stay
with neighbors when he was working the night shifts. I got the impression that the officers
down there are quite frightened by the prospect of these "guests" being on base; I don't know
what was told to them exactly to create that image. None of us know if there are indeed
prisoners in the custody of the judicial system being brought to the Cape; perhaps there are
and that is why the cry for all the security. The media however has only mentioned non-
incarcerated civilians being brought there.
It will be interesting indeed to see how this all unfolds...I will follow this thread and should have
more to share after a meeting we are having this weekend.
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ShakyaHeir posted on 9-9-2005 @ 05:25 AM
Does anyone have any coordinates for these camps?
It'd be interesting to see an overhead view from Google Earth.

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therainmaker,
Thank you very much for sharing that info. Please keep us advised as best you can on the
situation up there.
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Originally posted by ShakyaHeir

Does anyone have any coordinates for these camps?
It'd be interesting to see an overhead view from Google Earth.
Here is the Google satellite pic for directly over Falls Creek:
Falls Creek
I was informed yesterday that there was some podunk doomsday board that was attempting to
debunk what I have told here by stating Falls Creek is a national guard training camp and it was
used as some type of concentration camp or what not back during WW II and that as late as the
80's it was just a tent camp, etc. And that it's very close to Camp Gruber.
Absolutely every statement in the above paragraph is false.
1. Falls Creek has ALWAYS been the property of the Oklahoma state Baptist convention since it
was founded in 1917.
2. It has never been a national guard training facility.
3. It has never been a concentration/detainment camp.
4. With the exception of new cabins constantly being built by churches the camp looks about the
same as it did in the 70's. The most drastic changes are being made right now with the old
Tabernacle being bulldozed and new Tabernacle being built. The amphitheatre is new as well.
But it hasn't had tents anytime in my life. It has had structured cabins for decades and decades.
5. Falls Creek is about 8 miles south of Davis, Oklahoma. Camp Gruber, which is a National
Guard training facility, is by Muskogee, Oklahoma. The driving distance between these two
towns is 205 miles - about 3 hours.
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Roper posted on 9-9-2005 @ 07:16 AM
See Muskogee on the map? Look to the right and down you will see Brages, Gruber is right
there.
Roper
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foodforlife posted on 9-9-2005 @ 09:41 AM
trying to reach Valhall
Valhall,
I was forwarded your piece on trying to bring aid to Oklahoma, and I forwarded it to others, and
have heard back from many people wishing for confirmation. Some media may even be
interested. I'm wondering if you could give me your email or somehow come out as how you
are, so the story can become official.
personal info removed, since contact has been made.
[edit on 9-9-2005 by worldwatcher]
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Originally posted by foodforlife

Valhall,
I was forwarded your piece on trying to bring aid to Oklahoma, and I forwarded it to others, and
have heard back from many people wishing for confirmation. Some media may even be
interested. I'm wondering if you could give me your email or somehow come out as how you are,
so the story can become official.
I will email you.
contact info removed.
[edit on 9-9-2005 by worldwatcher]
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I just wanted to follow up on the comments concerning "confirming" this story. I have now
spoken with a reporter from NPR and a reporter with the Daily Oklahoman. In both cases I have
given my full REAL name to these reporters. The NPR person did not request a contact number
from me, but in the case of the Daily Oklahoman, not only do they have my home number, they
have my work number. What I'm trying to emphasize here is that I'm not trying to keep my real
identity from what I have stated here. I'm trying to keep my identity from being revealed HERE.
There's a big difference. So I guess my point is, if knowing who I am constitutes "confirming"
this story - it's been "confirmed" to two separate reporters. The Daily Oklahoman reporter is
working to be able to report this story and still provide me a level of anonymity. If his editor
says no, then again, I guess it won't get reported. But as I stated to him on the phone last
night, there needs to be a precedent on this at some point. There is a growing number of
civilians out in the world that are no longer accepting mainstream reports at face value and are
witnessing things they have no way to make public unless some one can protect them.
If it doesn't happen with me, it will eventually happen with some one. But there is no reason for
me to endanger my job, or my privacy (let's face it 1.3 million sets of eyes look at this website

every month!) when I am cooperating on the backside to confirm my identity and even my
story.
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Sauron posted on 9-9-2005 @ 11:53 AM
FEMA Nixes Grassroots Radio Station for Hurricane Evacuees
Sorry if this has been posted already
Bureaucracy KO's info source at the Astrodome
by Sarah Ferguson
September 8th, 2005 5:04 PM
Although the effort was trumpeted in the media as an example of grassroots ingenuity in the
face of disaster, local officials with the Federal Emergency Management Agency have nixed an
attempt by Houston activists to set up a low-power radio station at the Astrodome that would
have broadcast Hurricane Katrina relief information for evacuees.
The project was unplugged even though it had key support. On Monday, the Federal
Communications Commission quickly granted temporary licenses to broadcast inside the
Astrodome and the adjacent Reliant Center. The station was also backed by the Houston Mayor’s
office and Texas governor Rick Perry. But local officials said FEMA bureaucrats KO’d the station—
dubbed KAMP “Dome City Radio”—because of “security concerns.”
“They wanted unlimited access to the buildings, which we could not give to anyone in the
media,” said Gloria Roemer, a spokesperson for Harris County, which has jurisdiction over the
Astrodome complex. Currently reporters are allowed in only on 15-minute guided tours.
According to Roemer, FEMA officials also believed they could not allocate “scarce” electricity,
office space, and phone and Internet access to the volunteer station—even though activists say
they offered to run the station on batteries and use their own cellphones.
Supporters of KAMP, which was set to launch at 95.3 FM, blame red tape and bureaucrats
seeking to “manage the news.”

“I’m very disappointed,” said Councilmember Ada Edwards, who

More
They canned it because of security concerns? and a lack of hydro, whats with the scarce
electricity? They do hold rock concerts there do they not.
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Odium posted on 9-9-2005 @ 12:40 PM
Stop Disease?
There have already been 5 deaths because of the water. [BBC1 reported.]
FEMA failed the people of America. Their inability to accept international help when it was
offered and their slow reaction time has resulted in more people dying than ever should have...
As for the images Val, great find they were...shocking in some respects although I expected a
lot worse for the detention camps. Hopefully those people will get the medical attention they
need especailly after the 1000doctors were turned away.
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syrinx high priest posted on 9-9-2005 @ 02:14 PM
I'm still trying to find the part where you were detained against your will. were you ?
copyright & usage

Originally posted by syrinx high priest

How much time did you invest in looking for that?
It's not there.
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Floh posted on 9-9-2005 @ 02:35 PM

I saw nothing which said she was detained against her will. could you please quote what you
mean?
btw, Valhall: when i finally learn how to sy you are an amazing poster as regards 'top post of he
Month', you got mine.
i learned of this site from 'The Interdector'. i'm sold and will be spending copious amounts of
time here.
just found out Michael Brown has been 'sidelined'. well GOOD!
altho he's, to my mind, just the fall guy, he also is an incompetant twit!
[edit on 9-9-2005 by Floh]
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How much time did you invest in looking for that?
It's not there.
were you detained at this camp or not ?
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<< 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 >>

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<< 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 >>

Originally posted by Floh

I saw nothing which said she was detained against her will. could you please quote what you
mean?
the title of the thread
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No - I was not detained at this camp and had you bothered reading the article you would
already know that.
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No - I was not detained at this camp and had you bothered reading the article you would already
know that.
Even if it were someone using Englisch as a second language, there is no suggestion in your
article you were ever detained at any point, IMO. i simply don't understand the poster's
query???
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She said she wasn't. what is the game you are on? why are you doing this?
it seems highly likely you're derailing this very important thread, IMO.
MOD Edit: fixed quote boxes. To the new people, please refrain from multiple nested
quotes it confuses the flow of discourse.
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kinglizard posted on 9-9-2005 @ 03:05 PM
Floh I don’t understand why you are having difficulty understanding that Valhall was NOT
detained. Please read the opening thread post.
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Floh's not the one with the problems with comprehension, kl.
lol
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kinglizard posted on 9-9-2005 @ 03:08 PM
Oh sorry Floh, it looks like you said “were you detained at this camp or not ?” a couple posts
back. My bad.....
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Floh's not the one with the problems with comprehension, kl.
lol
Thankx sweetheart. i'm just only just beginning to understand how the board format works. (i'm
a bear of little brain. )
sorry to rush in all defensive-like, but i dislike injustice enormously and i know you're big enuff
and strong enuff to defend yourself -- but, damnit all: i'm not the type to stand by and watch it
going on.
bit much for a newbie, eh?
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Sorry for messing up, kinglizard. :blush:
i'll get a handle on how to post here in double-quick time. promise.
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Val:
You said people are there now. Could you confirm children? If so, any way to confirm enrollment
in school?
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Originally posted by loam

Val:
You said people are there now. Could you confirm children? If so, any way to confirm enrollment
in school?
Well beings there have been numerous articles stating no one is over there. I'm assuming no
one is over there. If the people my nephew saw on Tuesday were, in fact, evacuees, apparently
they were in transit and continued on (possibly to Gruber, but I don't know).
As far as I know no one from our church has been back over there since they sent home all the
"hosts".
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Springer posted on 9-9-2005 @ 03:29 PM

As HISTORICAL events unfold before our very eyes...
some people seem bent on de-railing the TRUTH being brought to us by an EYE WITNESS with
rediculous side steps into the inane.
Well, as one of the three Owners of this site I am letting EVERYONE know right here, right now,
that isn't going to happen on THIS thread.
If you have questions/comments relative to the subject matter at hand by ALL means, post
them. If you are trying to pick the author's story apart with idiocy, or side tracking your post
and your membership rights will be dealt with by the management of this site.
This thread is NOT about the author's story... This thread is an eye witness account, photos
included, of what happened. This isn't "hear-say".
AboveTopSecret.Com, LLP knows the author personally and I was present when the facts of this
accounting were brought together and we stand behind its authenticity 100%.
Enough said. PLEASE people, let's realize what we are witnessing and NOT allow this to get
buried in the typical garbage easily found on the tube.
/RANT
Springer...
[edit on 9-9-2005 by Springer]
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Originally posted by Springer

some people seem ...
What Springer said.
the reason i joined was because of Valhall's very, very important post!
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I just wanted to say something. I don't mind at all some one asking me questions if they some
way have doubts about my post. I don't mind that at all. But it's disingenuous to start silly
personal pock-shots based on semantics.
I had no agenda - other than sharing what I saw and was told. That's all I've done here. I've
repeated my experience. I've repeated the statements made to me. I've shared what I saw. And
I've shared my daughter's pics.
I had my son look over my post to ensure that everything was factual according to what we saw
and what we were told. My son is 21 years old and lives on his own now and he is his own man.
He did find one error and that was when I quoted him. When I stated he said, "Welcome to
Krakow." That was wrong...he corrected me that his statement was "Welcome to Nazi
Germany." So, now I have corrected that.
Actually, up until just a few days ago my son was the neo-con of our family. And he was proud
of that I suppose. He no longer is. We're a family of Republicans, but we're a family of very
confused Republicans right now. Mind you - I'll never be a Democrat - and I won't - but I'm not
sure where to turn now.
My son and my daughter both came away from this aware that if they ever are so unfortunate
to lose everything they own (no matter how much or how little that originally was) they will live
in the woods, swamp or mountains, but they won't go and ask for government assistance. I
didn't teach them that - their experience taught them that. We went over there to participate in
a charitable effort. That's not the experience we had.
All I can do is tell what actually happened...I can't make you believe it.
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Originally posted by ValhallI had my son look over my post to ensure that everything was factual
according to what we saw and what we were told. My son is 21 years old and lives on his own
now and he is his own man. He did find one error and that was when I quoted him. When I
stated he said, "Welcome to Krakow." That was wrong...he corrected me that his statement was
"Welcome to Nazi Germany."
A German lady i spoke to today about your initial post here in Germany said it was what the
nazis did. exactly what they did. prettied up the concentration camps at the start to make it
look not so awful.
the German press is getting your post and the German press won't be stomped upon.
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Relentless posted on 9-9-2005 @ 05:40 PM


Actually, up until just a few days ago my son was the neo-con of our family. And he was proud of
that I suppose. He no longer is. We're a family of Republicans, but we're a family of very
confused Republicans right now. Mind you - I'll never be a Democrat - and I won't - but I'm not
sure where to turn now.
Val, you got my Way Above very early on in this thread, and this along with all the other
messes still being reported and raising questions, has certainly put me in the same category at
this point. Where do you turn when it gets this bad? What do you do?
With more and more disturbing reports coming in on this thread and the news today, I just give
up! God, Family, Neighbors, (known and unknown) yes, but I can't seem to fit the word Country
in there anymore. It just seems to encompass too much evil along with the good.
I do hope the word gets out that people are hearng these things and aren't happy so the
government and all their agencies wake up and cut this garbage, whatever it is they are up to
(when they aren't doing what they were suppossed to in the first place). I think this entire
report has turned into quite a potential catalyst for that and I can't applaud you enough for
what you have started here.
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Ctrl posted on 9-9-2005 @ 08:17 PM
Your pics appear gone...
Thanks Valhall for an excellent post.
I noticed your pictures seem to be gone, or for some unknown reason I cannot see them.
If the free image storing place you uploaded them to has removed them, I'd be more than
happy to host them for you.... with full hotlinking of course.
Mod Edit: to remove url, please no promoting other sites. Thanks...

[edit on 9-9-2005 by kinglizard]
Mod Edit: to remove url, please no promoting other sites. Thanks...
[edit on 9-9-2005 by kinglizard]
I wasn't... I was trying to explain that I'd host his pics, and where they'd be hosted.... a site
who's concerned with FREEDOM.
Did you happen to read something to the effect of "please visit my site!"?
No..
Too bad the folks that run this don't care enough about freedom and spreading vital news to
allow such acts however.... I actually WELCOME nwo/conspiracy links on my site provided they
are non-profit and contain no porn links.
[edit on 9-9-2005 by Ctrl]
[edit on 9-9-2005 by Ctrl]
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They are showing up for me. Please retry the original post and let me know if they still do not
show up.
Thank you.
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They are showing up for me. Please retry the original post and let me know if they still do not
show up.
Thank you.
There still there when I just checked
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Val, I have a question for you. Now that there is a bit of light on you, do you still propose a
'high road' hike? Or will you lie low for a spell?
u2u me if neccessary.
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<< 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 >>

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<< 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 >>
Ctrl posted on 9-9-2005 @ 08:27 PM

Strange... can't view them from home at all... can't even ping img.photobucket.com ... get ping
error 65 w/e that is.
I did however try viewing this thread from one of the server's my site uses for it's bitorrent
tracker and had no problems at all....weird.
Thanks again for a good post.
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Springer,
A new member to this site as I may be, and I do not wish to derail or sidetrack this thread
(apart from this one issue), but I for one, take offence to the tone of your 'management-shot-
across-the-bows' as Valhalls story continues to gain wider and wider coverage, and in turn gains
the site far greater exposure to the media (this story falls into the 'top 10' hits on many search
engines..not to mention interest from 'traditional' media)
"..If you are trying to pick the author's story apart with idiocy, or side tracking your post your
membership rights will be dealt with by the management of this site"...."some people
seem bent on de-railing the TRUTH being brought to us by an EYE WITNESS with rediculous side
steps into the inane. Well, as one of the three Owners of this site I am letting EVERYONE know
right here, right now, that isn't going to happen on THIS thread."
Yes, Valhalls' story here is of vital importance in the mission to seek the truth and to bring it
out into the open, but to treat the members of this site as your 'lessers' that should toe-the-line
in order to enable you and the other co-owners of this site to create a 'corporate' image for the
benefit of the wider media, quite frankly sir, stinks.
I, and the vast many other contributors to this site have the same mission, to 'Deny
Ignorance'...what Valhall has done here is of immesurable value toward the cause, and yes, I
agree that inane bickering and sidetracks over semantics should be deplored, however, this is
no excuse to make open 'threats' to those who should lessen the site's 'marketability'. I would
have sent this as a U2U but the voracity of your post to the wider membership demanded a

public reply.
Note: Please DO NOT post replys or slant the discussion toward this post here on the thread...
Valhalls story is too important to sidetrack into management or other issues, as Springer stated.
I felt that Springers post deserved a public rebuttal
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Hey timski,
I hope you don't mind me responding. I understand your concerns and comments, and actually
immediately sought confirmation from Springer myself. Seems even living with some one does
not stop miscommunications at times - especially when they are written. I can speak with great
confidence the following:
What he meant to say was "THE WAY I SPOKE MY STORY IS NOT THE ISSUE. THE CONTENT OF
MY STORY IS."
I will ask him to re-visit this thread and confirm that I now understand his comments. But, as
you can see, I had to seek confirmation myself. I do know that his intention was not to limit any
vetting of my account.
Thanks.

copyright & usage

"..I do know that his intention was not to limit any vetting of my account.."
My only issue was with the tone of Springer's post and the implied threats if a member's
question to your eye-witness account was deemed 'inane', which I felt to be an abuse of his
status
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Springer,
Yes, Valhalls' story here is of vital importance in the mission to seek the truth and to bring it
out into the open, but to treat the members of this site as your 'lessers' that should toe-the-line
in order to enable you and the other co-owners of this site to create a 'corporate' image for the
benefit of the wider media, quite frankly sir, stinks.
I, and the vast many other contributors to this site have the same mission, to 'Deny
Ignorance'...what Valhall has done here is of immesurable value toward the cause, and yes, I
agree that inane bickering and sidetracks over semantics should be deplored, however, this is no
excuse to make open 'threats' to those who should lessen the site's 'marketability'.
The UNFORTUNATE perception you have created was NOT the intent of my post at all. If it was
taken as ANYTHING other than a GENUINE request for STAYING ON TOPIC than I appologize.
Your insulting inuendo that "marketing or corporate" concerns were involved is beyond my
ability to comment to in polite company.

All I can say is my post was directed to those who would come here with the sole intention of
disruption will not be welcomed.
Springer...
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Originally posted by Springer

Your insulting inuendo that "marketing or corporate" concerns were involved is beyond my ability
to comment to in polite company.
My apologies for over-stepping the line and making a rash assumption
All I can say is my post was directed to those who would come here with sole intention of
disruption will not be welcomed.
I agree with your intention, but perhaps you could have been a little less 'threatening' in your
post
I hope there is no personal offence taken, as none was intended...now, back to the unfolding
story, eh?
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I agree with your intention, but perhaps you could have been a little less 'threatening' in your
post
Maybe I could have but I wasn't "threatening" anyone I was making a "policy statement"... I am
not the "diplomatic partner" of this site, for better or worse I say it plain and simple, the direct
approach...
.now, back to the unfolding story, eh?
That's ALL I wanted in the first place...
Springer...
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Just posting a follow up question or two.
Are there disaster victims in this camp now? Has there been anyone at the camp that has been
detained against his or her will? Has there been anyone at the camp that has expressed that
they feel that they are prisoners? Has anyone talked to any disaster victims who have been
directed to this camp? Has anyone been able to talk to anyone in this camp at all other than
staff on the site? Has anyone talked to any medical personnel at the camp, or involved with the
camp, to see if there are any ill people there they may have treated?
Thanks!
copyright & usage
billybob posted on 9-9-2005 @ 11:45 PM

to all concerned:
do you think the real brains behind the curtain are not aware of this massively popular(go
valhall!) thread/meme?
as in quantum fizzix, the observer affects the observed.
the unfortunate thing about lab animals, is that they die when you dissect them.
there is another camp in utah with barbed wire and everything. victims are not being told where
they are going when they are loaded onto planes. allegedly.
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loam posted on 10-9-2005 @ 12:04 AM
Originally posted by billybob

victims are not being told where they are going when they are loaded onto planes. allegedly.
billybob:
Won't comment on the first part of your post, but I'd like to remind everyone that there is
nothing alleged about keeping these people in the dark about their destinations.
Evacuees not told where they're going
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Floh posted on 10-9-2005 @ 01:10 AM

Evacuees in Utah are not being confined to their camp. (there are many stories about the
evacuees in utah in the same paper as the article i link you to.)
www.sltrib.com...
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Relentless posted on 10-9-2005 @ 06:16 AM
I would suspect part of the delay in transferring evacuees is the screening that is taking place.
The question is, who is being detained in different circumstances and for what reasons? Crime
potential, disease control? What?
I have no doubt at this point all shelter situations are not the same.
Edit: Mizar keeps coming to mind. Wish there was more news from him. I seriously worry about
people who stayed behind, feeling fairly certain they could survive, only to possibly be viewed
as "problems" at this point. Serioulsy, we have no idea what the criteria is at this point for the
difference between evacuees and detainees.
[edit on 9/10/2005 by Relentless]
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Just posting a follow up question or two.
Are there disaster victims in this camp now?
Don't know. The Oklahoma newspapers and TV stations say no.

Has there been anyone at the camp that has been detained against his or her will? Has there
been anyone at the camp that has expressed that they feel that they are prisoners?
Trifecta on the don't knows.
Has anyone talked to any disaster victims who have been directed to this camp? Has anyone
been able to talk to anyone in this camp at all other than staff on the site? Has anyone talked to
any medical personnel at the camp, or involved with the camp, to see if there are any ill people
there they may have treated?
As I posted early in the thread, Springer spoke with our preacher the next morning. That is
everything we know. Well, other than my mother told me on Wednesday that she had been told
the reason it was called off is that they were getting people on the buses who weren't supposed
to be there (not evacuees) and they were having problems controlling this. I didn't share that
because I have no idea where she heard it. I didn't ask because it sounded like something lame
to me.
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Shepherd posted on 10-9-2005 @ 12:44 PM
FEMA church camp
Might those white vehicles be UN vehicles? Is the UN in charge? I wish the person who took the
pictures said if the cops and guards spoke clear English. Did she ask if the people usinig the
church camp for 5 months were PRISONERS from New Orleans jail? Those prisoners were
evacuated but I dont know to where. This place would be ideal for them. That would sure
explain the guards comments about riots and 'these kind' of people.
I am not ignorant of what is going on, but perhaps this is not as scary as it seems ........ yet.
If I had a guide and a group I would go there and ask to interview 'residents'.
I am a reporter
Zions CRY World News
ZionsCRY.InJesus.com...
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Are there disaster victims in this camp now?
Don't know. The Oklahoma newspapers and TV stations say no.
Gosh, I sure hope a few hundred people didn't have to go without a home because of this
sensationalized story which insinuated, without cooberration, that this was a detainment camp.
That would be the first real conspiracy to post in this "conspiracy" forum.
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Well, I don't think my recalling my experience has prevented anybody from having a home.
How could it?
Once again, I ask how I have sensationalized anything? Once again, I state that I having done
nothing but repeat what was told me and four other people (and one of those people has read
this article and verified the accuracy of my account - there's your corroboration), and shared
what I saw.
I'll have my son log on when he comes over this weekend, and respond in this thread. Of
course, that most likely won't be powerful enough to sway you from your obsession of wanting
to act like a jerk, but it will make me feel better.

I tell you what - if I ever find out your government is about to move you to a camp they won't
let you have free movement to and from, and won't allow people to visit you freely - I promise
I'll keep my mouth shut.
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Well, I don't think my recalling my experience has prevented anybody from having a home. How
could it?
Once again, I ask how I have sensationalized anything? Once again, I state that I having done
nothing but repeat what was told me and four other people (and one of those people has read
this article and verified the accuracy of my account - there's your corroboration), and shared
what I saw.
I'll have my son log on when he comes over this weekend, and respond in this thread. Of course,
that most likely won't be powerful enough to sway you from your obsession of wanting to act like
a jerk, but it will make me feel better.
I tell you what - if I ever find out your government is about to move you to a camp they won't
let you have free movement to and from, and won't allow people to visit you freely - I promise
I'll keep my mouth shut.
Act like a jerk? Why do you have to turn to personal insults? It's ok to be WRONG Val. It's ok to
be WRONG...
I'm asking for proof that it's a detainment camp (YOUR words). I'm asking for proof that there
are people being held against their will. I'm asking for proof that this is nothing more than a
place for people to live for a few months until they can go home or move to a new home or new
jobs.
Nobody here, and nobody in the media has called it a detainment camp, nor has anyone said
anyone was moved there against their will. Except for you implying that this was the case.

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Esoterica posted on 10-9-2005 @ 02:12 PM

be WRONG...
jobs.
This is ATS, people tend to assume the worst and rarely you'll see a post that doesn't have
some sort of bad omen commentary.
I posted what I thought were reasonable questions and comments about the camp itself, and
didn't receive any sort of reply. Even to tell me I'm wrong...
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are people being held against their will.
At this point - by all news reports in the state of Oklahoma, there are no evacuees at Falls
Creek. So there couldn't possibly be detainees, if there is no one at all staying there (short of a
"skeleton crew" that the papers report may still be there).
Governor Henry has stated that he "called a halt" to further evacuees being bused into the state
after Arkansas prepared for around 3000 (I think that is the correct number they were originally
expecting) and got 10,000. He states that he wants to make sure that the evacuees the state
has now (I'm assuming these are the ones at Camp Gruber) are properly cared for before
accepting more. That's what the papers and TV here are reporting. I know no more than that on
the issue, other than some one telling my mom the load of poop about people who weren't
supposed to be boarding the buses were getting on and they had to stop the effort.
I'm asking for proof that this is nothing more than a place for people to live for a few months
until they can go home or move to a new home or new jobs.
Please see above. With that said, if this is "nothing more than" what you describe above, I am
sure, after Governor Henry is satisfied that they can be taken care of properly, evacuees will be
brougt into this camp. Until then - I don't think the answer is going to come to us while the
camp sits empty, because there is no answer while the camp sits empty.
nor has anyone said anyone was moved there against their will. Except for you implying that this
was the case.

This is a bold faced lie. I have not said that anyone was being moved to this facility against their
will. I haven't even implied it. So you're way off base there. And as I stated (I believe to you on
the first page of this thread) if you can come up with the correct name for a facility where the
people will not be able to come and go, nor have visitors have free access to them while they
are there, I'll be glad to use it from this point on. Just a note, had you answered me on the first
page of this thread, I could've been using it now for about 9 pages.
By the way, something that hasn't been brought up in this thread. The press was not going to
be allowed access into the cabin area of the camp. They were going to have a designated area
near the main gate where they could hold press conferences, but they could not go on inside
the camp where the cabins are located.
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Originally posted by Esoterica
I posted what I thought were reasonable questions and comments about the camp itself, and
didn't receive any sort of reply. Even to tell me I'm wrong...
Esoterica,
I'm sorry if I missed your questions. I will attempt to go find them now.
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<< 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 >>

Esoterica,
I have tried to answer your questions below.
Originally posted by Esoterica

Anyone have a better idea of what to do with 1 million refugees?
Yes, help them start their lives over without removing basic civil rights in the process. That's my
opinion.
Seriously, I'm waiting.
"Uhh... you can't just leave donated goods in the cabins. FEMA has stated they want all
supplies to go to their central warehouse. They said they have had far too many supplies
come in and they need to handle them. You can't leave ANY clothes."
Yep, because it's an absolutely ludicrious idea that they would have inventory and logistical
control. Best thing to do is to just have items randomly given out.
And exactly why would they need "inventory and logistical control"? If the cabins are pre-
supplied, why would what ever organization in charge want to make that more bureaucratic? If
some one needs something that isn't in the pre-stock cabins, it would be "randomly given out"
as you state. It's just that much less work to be paid for when it's taken care of by volunteers.
Now, I'm not saying that this is a good thing. Sticking people in "detainment" camps (see, I can
use ominous quotation marks too) is pretty horrible. But seriously, there are a MILLION people

right now that can't go home. Because they don't have a home. That's twice the population of
Wyoming. This isn't a Disney movie, when bad # happens, less than ideal methods may need to
be used.
Now, why wouldn't they want people to leave? Let's say that the camp is full. Bob decides to go
on a hike for a week. How long is the camp supposed to wait until they fill the vacancy left by
Bob? What are they supposed to do when Bob comes back and demands his now-occupied bed?
How are they supposed to create a supply network when the "population" of each camp keeps
changing? One camp will end up with too much food, one will have too little... Not to mention
that you really don't want a bunch of homeless people wandering around. The people in these
camps have NOTHING, if you want to try to help them rebuild their lives you have to impose
some sort of structure.
Note: Before anyone says that people might want to leave to visit family and friends... I doubt
anyone would want to visit family that forced them to live in the camp instead of on the living
room couch. I don't see such a thing becoming an issue.
I'm not sure there is a question in the above that you didn't respond to yourself, but I would
point out that Bob's a bit weird. And extended camping trips aside, we were told they would not
be able to come and go from the camp...that's 4 hours, 8 hours, or a week hiking in the
mountains.
[edit on 9-6-2005 by Esoterica]
Sorry for the delay in the response.
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Shadowflux posted on 10-9-2005 @ 02:41 PM

First off, I'd like to say great job Val, I've followed this story from the begining.
This story has the inherant downside of any first hand account and that is one of perspective.
Obviously, every observed action will be filtered through the author's perception of what is
going on. A great example of this is the stories we recieve from Iraq, to us our soldiers are
heroes but to many who live there our soldiers are an occupying force.
However, that is not to say that Val was being in any way disingenous. But blindly believing a
story because of an author's status on the board would be to accept ignorance. I believe it is
important to crittically analyze any information you are given. The simple fact is that anyone
could be lying to you and it's up to you alone to make sure you believe the truth.
However this post is not like other ATS posts, this thread has recieved so much attention that it
has become representative of ATS as a whole and therefore must be held to higher standards.
To allow this thread to run rampantly off topic, steered thusly by newly joined and overly
skeptical members would be more negligent than FEMA's initial response. As this thread will be
the first ATS experience for many new members it is important that we put our best face foward
and not bicker over semantics.
As an American I believe strongly in the rule of the people over the government. I think
Springer's post may have come on a little strong for many who wouldn't understand the
specifics of how ATS is run. To a new member is may have seemed as though the owners rule
over those of lesser status, and contrary to the site's motto, would cancel a memebers status as
such because of dissenting view points. I can attest to the fact that this is not the case. ATS is
comprised of a massive range of view points, running the gamut from out right loon to certified
expert and everything in between. On this board, more than anywhere on the internet, are you
free to speak your mind. But this is Springer's site, and if he wanted to make us all wear funny
pirate hats I suppose we'd have to.
All members, but specifically the newer ones, need to understand that this thread has become
the ambassador to the rest of the net and more "reputable" news sources. By posting here you
are helping to shape the rest of the net's perception of ATS. Now that we have their attention
we must make them see that we are not crazy, bickering, tin foiled conpsiracy nuts, rather we
are well informed concerned citizens of this planet. By speaking here you are speaking for all of
ATS, please try to support your fellow members as we are all in search of the same truth.
Now, on topic:
I have neglected to post much in the wake of Katrina, I have been too shocked and amazed by
what has currently transpired to form polite readable sentences. I have been struck speachless
by how willingly my fellow Americans are giving up their rights. How deep the disinformation
and psychosocial mass control has reached. Americans are turning to their idiot box for advice,
and when the media says it'll be ok then it must be so. When citizens are told to ignore the
armed police forces going from house to house comandeering fire arms they do so without a
second thought. We have been preconditioned with the modern mind set of a overgrown
powerful government to which each citizen must be subserviant. The police are no longer there
to serve and protect the citizenry, they serve and protect the interests of the military industrial
complex at the cost of our inherant American freedoms. People have forgotten that without the
blind will of the people the government will be no more. America, as a country, is made up of
the American people and the land they call home irregardless of their governmental or economic
theologies. We have forgotten who we are, we are not citizens of the government of the United
States of America, this land belongs to us and it is our job to protect it from tyrannical
governments hell bent on our economic and social serfdom. The quiet ease with which New
Orleans has been invaded and occupied frightens me. Granted there has been a major natural
catastrophe but it seems few realize that it was caused by our very own government. There are
mountains of evidence that our government saw this as a coming issue and actively refused to
rectify the situation until things reached a crittical point. I fear far too few people are viewing
this disaster with the future in mind. We are now used to seeing armed governmental forces
occupying our home soil, we expect them to take our guns, to herd us like the cattle they see us
as into overcrowded "relief" shelters, all in the name of "Homeland Security". America is not the
government's homeland to secure, it is the homeland of the American citizen and it is the
American citizens that allow the government the power it lords over us. Ever since the War on
Terror began we have been ever vigilant, looking for the unseen enemy lurking in the shadows.
It has become self evident that the unseen terror in fact lives in the White House. There has
been a silent and on going war since our revolution between the federal government and the
people of this country. Since it's inception the federal government was run by the newly formed
American aristocracy and has sought to wrest control of this fine nation from the hands of the
people. One by one, with laws and executive orders we have had our country stolen from us.
We feel we must do our duty to our government, but I say to you that we have no duty to any
government. Rather, our government has a duty to protect us and aid us in times of crisis, to
ensure and secure the American way of life and above all else to protect our natural and
inalienable rights as citizens. It is when our government ceases to provide for the citizenry and
in turn provides for itself at the risk of the citizenry that it is our duty to correct the problems,
wether with words or with force. Our sole duty is to ensure that the government will never take
away from us all that we hold dear. Americans have become sheep, herded by the government
in serfdom, where they slave away under the illusion of bettering their lives. The gross reality is

that the government percieves your home and your land to be it's economic asset, you are also
it's econmic asset, and when it feels the need to requisition you or anything you own it does so
unimpeeded. I only wish I could be sure I've convinced others of what it means to be an
American but I fear it is a losing battle. As long as people have their tvs and their condos, their
money, their clothes, and their mindless preconcieved notion of physical beauty they will
continue to be sheep.
If I could get but one statement across to the young people of our nation it would be: YOU DO
NOT SERVE THE GOVERNMENT. IT IS YOU WHO HAVE RIGHTS, NOT THE GOVERNMENT. YOUR
MOST IMPORTANT RIGHT IS YOUR RIGHT TO REFUSE, WHETHER WITH WORDS OR ACTIONS,
ANYTHING YOU DEEM TYRRANICAL. REFUSE. RESIST. PROTECT YOUR RIGHTS OR THEY WILL
BE ABOLISHED
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Shadowflux,
Thank you for that awesome post and for sharing your feelings. You are absolutely right that
any first-hand accounting of a real-life experience is filtered through the perceptions and biases
of the people who are telling it. I tried very hard to not put anymore of my personal feeling into
the account than possible.
Also, it has been suggested many times since I put this up that this "should have been on
ATSNN". No it shouldn't have. Because it IS a recounting of a personal experience. I didn't go
out and do investigative work, short of Springer speaking with the preacher the next morning. I
have tried to follow up with all information that's available. And that's the best I can do.
I don't particularly care if Catherder or anybody else agrees with my decision to use
"detainment" in the title of this thread. THAT's why it's a discussion thread instead of a news
article. I simply came back, shared what I heard and saw, and gave a personal accounting.
THIS IS NOT A NEWS ARTICLE. And there is no agenda to this thread.
copyright & usage
P.S. And I will state here what my biases were heading over to the camp.
We thought the camp was going to be ran by the Red Cross. We thought this because of the
statement made by the lady at the gas station. Prior to the statement by that lady, I have to be
honest I didn't think about who would be running it. I assumed there would be OHP presence
there (not as much as I saw though). I didn't expect military presence. I figured there would be
DHS (Department of Human Services in Oklahoma) people possibly, since there would have to
be processing activities taking place. That's about all I expected because I really hadn't thought
more about it.
We stopped to get the camera because of the statement by the lady at the gas station. I don't
like Red Cross, and probably never will. The dislike is genetic - I got it from my parents. My
father served in the Army Air Corps during WWII and I've grown up hearing about how Red
Cross would make the soldiers pay for the supplies they were "providing them". So when I
thought the Red Cross might get persnickity with me, I wanted to take the camera.
I never even considered FEMA...not until I got there.
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Got some numbers here. Not sure if this has been posted yet:
A Look at the Refugee Situation Around the Country - www.southcoasttoday.com

This story appeared on Page A2 of The Standard-Times on September 3, 2005.
OKLAHOMA: A few hundred refugees have checked in with the American Red Cross in Oklahoma, but
most have stayed with friends and family. Vince Hernandez, a spokesman for the Red Cross in Oklahoma,
said plans were being made to house greater numbers of refugees if needed.
A Look at the Refugee Situation Around the Country - www.katc.com (AP)

September 10, 2005
OKLAHOMA: A caravan of about buses carrying nearly 2,000 evacuees from the storm-ravaged Gulf
Coast region crossed into Oklahoma on Saturday en route to an Oklahoma National Guard barracks.
Preparations are being made to house as many as 3,000 additional evacuees at a second site.
A Look at the Refugee Situation Around the Country - ap.tbo.com (AP)

The Associated Press - Sep 10, 2005
OKLAHOMA: 2,352 in four shelters.
As an aside, people please stop arguing over semantics and trying to pick apart the story which
is an eye-witness account, not a news piece. The thread author has presented what she
experienced and her own personal questions and interpretations regarding that experience.
Others have also added their own information, questions and interpretations. What
interpretation YOU make based on the information presented is entirely up to YOU, the reader.
If you do not agree with any inferences made by the thread author or other contributors, that is
of course your prerogative, but please refrain from deriding others for their opinion in this
discussion, and from making aspersions as to contributors' supposed agendas. Let's keep the
focus on the events and the facts themselves, not on those reporting on it.
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Asil posted on 10-9-2005 @ 11:37 PM
highly questionable....
I am sorry, but I find this whole thing highly questionable, especially since they were
announcing on Septermber 6th that Oklahoma was probably NOT going to get any more
evacuees. Falls Creek was told to stand down on the 6th.
The media has been ALL OVER falls creek for the past week, and there hasn't been ANY kind of
suggestion that anything strange is going on.
This yahoo search only shows SOME of the photos that the Associated Press moved from Falls
Creek this past week.
search.news.yahoo.com...
9/7/05
newsok.com...
9/7/05
newsok.com...
9/7/05
newsok.com...
9/8/05
newsok.com...
We have had over 1000 refugees at Camp Gruber, the media has had

wide open access and again nothing strange has been reported.
Some of those people have already left because they made contact with friends or family.
newsok.com...
I was infuriated with our goverrnment BEFORE Katrina and now am even more so, but there are
enough REAL horrors going on without spreading conspiracy theories. I think if the author is
going to spread this all over the internet, he or she ought to be willing to go on the record with
NPR or whoever.
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Originally posted by Asil
NPR or whoever.
And you believe everything the main stream media tells you? Personally I'll believe an eye
witness account before I believe the major press, especially with what happened with CNN not
too long ago. Or did you forget they were caught in an outright lie? If CNN lied to us, I wonder
what other controled media is lying to us right now about the entire Kirtrina affair?
As for Vall going on record, she already did with her local papers. Which you would have found
out if you actually read the entire thread. It seems some admin on this forum know her
personally. It may not mean anything to you, but it does to many older ATS members. Her ATS
award in 2004 means much to the forum members who understand what that award signifies. If
you would like to know, please go to the FAQ and question and answer board to find out. Not
too many people actually have this award.
Also, Vall stated that she did not want her real identity to be known on this forum. There are
many good reasons why she should be concerned about blowing the whistle on FEMA, or even
calling FEMA into question. I wouldn't be suprised if there comes a time where someone will be
arrested because of that. Just because she is taking pre-cautions and protecting her and her
family by doing so, doesn't mean that she is hiding anything or lying to us.
If you want to believe the government and FEMA still has our best interest and the victims best
interests at heart, go right ahead and do so.
Edited to add: Please site news sources that the rest of us do not have to register for even if it
is a free registration.
[edit on 11-9-2005 by Mystery_Lady]
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Duzey posted on 11-9-2005 @ 01:16 AM
Just to elaborate on Mystery_Lady's post a little:
Anyone who has spent a little time on ATS has no doubt that what Valhall has posted is the
truth. Valhall does not make things up. Period.
She should be commended for showing this to us, not having her integrity questioned.
[edit on 11-9-2005 by Duzey]
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sosuemetoo posted on 11-9-2005 @ 02:37 AM

Originally posted by Duzey

Anyone who has spent a little time on ATS has no doubt that what Valhall has posted is the
truth. Valhall does not make things up. Period.
She should be commended for showing this to us, not having her integrity questioned.
[edit on 11-9-2005 by Duzey]
Yes, she should. I would believe Valhall before I believe the MSM (Mainstream Media). She has
provided an eyewitness account with photos. She has followed up with other eyewitness
opinions. Valhall has done more to prove her story than the MSM has been asked to do.
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sardion2000 posted on 11-9-2005 @ 02:54 AM
Edited to add: Please site news sources that the rest of us do not have to register for even if it is
a free registration.
No need just use www.bugmenot.com...
EDIT: Valhal's crediblity is without question. She is only one out of 3 people who have won that
medal you see her wearing. Very very good reason for that one
[edit on 11-9-2005 by sardion2000]
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Originally posted by Asil
NPR or whoever.
Asil,
I was over there and wrote this on the 5th. I got the thread up around midnight. You are right,
the next day (believe it was in the late afternoon evening of the 6th) is when the Oklahoma
news started reporting that Falls Creek was put on hold.
Further to your conversation about media in Falls Creek. I have no idea if they were allowed into
the cabin area of Falls Creek once the buses were called off. I haven't seen any reports stating
such, but that doesn't mean there haven't been any.
Here is BGCO's article of September 5 about the press conferences and restrictions:
www.bgco.org...{57F338A6-2B68-47B7-9AD0-3583FE4931D5}&sc=-1&ni=520&fr=news
And this was confirmed by the media.
Also, I DID give my identity to the reporters I spoke with. I haven't "spread" this all over the
internet - other concerned people have. I posted it one place - right here. And I've done my
dead-level best to keep it updated when I heard more, no matter if the more contradicted what
we were told that day. I've also been completely open with the news agencies.
In this thread (I know it is long) I have discussed that it sounds like the people at Camp Gruber
have the ability to come and go. Though I haven't had that confirmed (unless you live up near
there and can now confirm it) it does appear as if they can.
But I also read an article yesterday that they were getting a bit tighter up there because they
had found criminals, gang members and drug dealers inside the evacuee population at Gruber.
The article stated they had sent one man back to Louisiana. The article also stated they had
even found some Oklahoma locals who had slipped into the camp and were acting like New
Orleans victims. That's a bit of a shameful find.
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Sauron posted on 11-9-2005 @ 08:26 AM
FEMA's inspectors included criminals
Speaking of criminal records

Yes this from Alex Jones but the original story is from the South Florida Sun-Sentinel.
external image
FEMA's inspectors included criminals

The US Government Continues to Employ Criminals at Every Level
South Florida Sun-Sentinal | April 24, 2005
By Megan O'Matz
Government inspectors entrusted to enter disaster victims' homes and verify damage claims
include criminals with records for embezzlement, drug dealing and robbery, a South Florida Sun-
Sentinel investigation has found.
That first line of accountability, the newspaper found, includes:

James A. DeWan, 46, of Texas. Known by the nickname "Mad Dog," he has a rap sheet that
includes marijuana possession, three drunken-driving convictions and four citations for public
intoxication. DeWan referred questions about his background to his employer.
Bill J. Neal, 60, of North Carolina, who served more than six years in prison in three states for
criminal sexual conduct, attempted embezzlement of public money, conspiracy to commit wire
fraud and cocaine possession. After last year's hurricanes, he trained new inspectors in Florida.
Neal told the newspaper he had an impeccable work record.
Niels S. May, 39, of Tampa, who pleaded guilty to possession of marijuana, cocaine and drug
paraphernalia in 1996. During a search of his home, police found two rifles, a shotgun and a .357
Magnum, court records show. "I'm not going to discuss my criminal history, and it's not much of

one, to anybody," May told the Sun-Sentinel .
Darin P. Brebes, 36, a longtime inspector. Twice convicted of drunken driving in California,
Brebes is wanted in Florida for failing to appear on a 1999 DUI in Broward County. Brebes said
he no longer drinks, adding that a DUI is nothing more than "a traffic violation."
The four are among thousands of independent contractors FEMA has relied on to evaluate
damage in disaster areas and help determine whether applicants receive government aid.
It is not known how many in the whole work force might have criminal records because FEMA will
not release the names of any of its inspectors or their supervisors, citing an "unwarranted
invasion of their personal privacy." The Sun-Sentinel has filed a federal suit against FEMA and its
umbrella agency, the Department of Homeland Security, seeking the identities of inspectors and
aid recipients.
www.infowars.com...
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Administrative update:
I thought those active in this thread might like to know that the first page is being displayed an
average of 1.32 times every second since it was first noticed in a big way Friday morning. There
are 239 distinct websites covering this material and linking back to ATS.
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Odium posted on 11-9-2005 @ 08:47 AM

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord

Well done Valhall and the rest of those involved then.
It's an interesting thread, the pictures I find...odd but it is good that so many people are getting
to view it.
How many unique IPs have we had view this Skeptic?
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RANT posted on 11-9-2005 @ 09:19 AM
The views and interest is warranted. Especially on this very sad memorial day.
I'm watching the national coverage of the 9/11 memorial now for the victims and surviving
families of that tragic event and can't help but see the difference in attitudes and lack of respect
for these families.
I'm not going to say what I'm really thinking right now though.
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Amethyst posted on 11-9-2005 @ 10:11 AM

Conspiracy Planet has it here now.
BTW that site was also fingered by the "Ministry of Truth" site as one of the top disinformation
sites....
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BTW that site was also fingered by the "Ministry of Truth" site as one of the top disinformation
sites....
APPARENTLY THEY ARE!
Look at the first paragraph in their article:
"The FEMA official then precedes to tell us that some churches had already enquired into
whether they could send a van or bus on Sundays to pick up any occupants of their cabins who
might be interested in attending church. FEMA will not allow this.
Now go look at my original post. Sorry Charlie, I never ever claimed to have spoken with "a
FEMA official".
So much for just being able to handle an account without jacking it to your agenda.
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Now go look at my original post. Sorry Charlie, I never ever claimed to have spoken with "a
FEMA official".
So much for just being able to handle an account without jacking it to your agenda.
Might want to drop 'em an e-mail or something then, and set the record straight.
I would think that as an "alternative" media source they'd want to tell things as they are and
not exaggerate or misquote or anything.
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AgentSmith posted on 11-9-2005 @ 10:27 AM
This may have been covered already and I apologise if this is the case (I need to catch up with
it all!), but is there any way that you can try and arrange an interview maybe with one or more
of the refugees?
It would make a good podcast and might answer a lot of questions and maybe even put some
rumours to rest.
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Odium posted on 11-9-2005 @ 10:30 AM
Valhall, slap them with a law suit.
I can use my work e-mail and send a complaint to them about "Misrepresentation" and possible
"defemation" of character.
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Originally posted by AgentSmith

This may have been covered already and I apologise if this is the case (I need to catch up with it
all!), but is there any way that you can try and arrange an interview maybe with one or more of
the refugees?
It would make a good podcast and might answer a lot of questions and maybe even put some
rumours to rest.
Well, to catch you up, there aren't supposed to be any refugees at the Falls Creek camp yet. It
was put on hold. Maybe there is an ATS member who lives close to Camp Gruber who could do
this, but that's quite a drive for me!
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ThermoNuke posted on 11-9-2005 @ 01:12 PM
be WRONG...
jobs.
Ok, first of all, No one has said that 100% that this is a full blown detainment camp. This is a
conspiracy thread board right? Yea, i figured so.

Isnt the whole point to post our eye witness accounts and determine the truth???????????????
Look, no. No one is being held against their will. Why? Well shockingly enough after this article
hit big on the net the camp got slammed into a hold status. But the FACTS are, that both Valhall
and myself were there and it was explained in great detail several times that people WOULD
NOT BE ALLOWED TO LEAVE UNLESS THEY COULD PROVE THEY HAD FAMILIY TO LIVE WITH.
Now. If you cant leave at will, how in the hell do you get a job?
What car do they drive to work?
They dont. If you cant leave, you cant get a job. Further more you are in a foreign state, being
sent to a place many do not want to go. So you would think that maybe.. JUST MAYBE.. They
dont want to work there anyways.. They want to be HOME.
I'm 21 years old, and the feeling that it gave me to be inside that camp caused to say what
Valhall quoted me as saying. "Welcome to Nazi Germany". Thats what it felt like. Thats what the
rules lead me to feel like. Everything that you have ever watched on TV or read in a history
book seemed to be unfolding right before my eyes. And it was sickening.
I mean, i find your questions absurd as they have already been answered several times.
Let me explain it and spell it out for you.
"Find a new home"

Cant. Their family isnt here, remember? They didnt live here and most of the people are too
poor. (Hint: Thats why they are refugees)
"Get a new job"

Cant. They have no car and no means out because they cannot leave unless they have family
(which lives states away) to live with. (If they even have a house left too)
Its a catch 22. They say you can leave if you have family, but you never had family and thats
why your a refugee.
They say you can leave when you get a job, but how are you supposed to drive to your job or
interview or even the employment agency if you cant leave the camp????
I sure hope this answers your questions, cus people already seem to be tired of repeating the
same EYEWITNESS FACTS to you. Because Valhall has told it just as we saw it and the only
thing she ever got wrong was by quoting my nazi germany statement wrong.

[edit on 11-9-2005 by ThermoNuke]
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If everybody doesn't mind, I would like to quote the OEMA employee's response to this thread. I
think it needs to also be in this thread for a couple of reasons:
1. We have visitors coming to this thread who may not travel anywhere else in ATS land, so I
don't want them to miss the explanations provided.
2. The explanation addresses several of the comments and questions brought up in this thread.
posted on 9-11-2005 at 12:48 Post Number: 1678054 (post id: 1699947)
Rebuttal to "I just got back from a FEMA Detainment Camp
If I may break down the report that was posted about our facility as Falls Creek in Oklahoma.
Page 1 stated: I packed up two car loads of us and headed over to Falls Creek. In the Emergency
Management Community we have asked the population over and over not to "self deploy" and
the following reason are given for such request.
Prior to Jesse Jackson making his comments our Governor and the State Officer of Emergency
Management asked all Oklahomans to please refrain from using words such as refugees and
displaced people. We were asked to use the wording "Oklahoma Guest". This went out on the
media here in Oklahoma and in print.
The author of this report continues to use the term refugee throughout the paper.

One of the primary reasons for using Falls Creek was the picturesque area and having the ability
by faith-based groups to allow these folks the ability to put their lives back to normal, as much
as possible, without having the press and lot’s of concerned citizens hound them for interviews
and “how was it”.
We knew from the start that we needed additional security at the site so Oklahoma Highway
Patrol officers were assigned in double shifts to protect those “guest” from the media and other
“well concerned citizens”.
She states her daughter “turned and snapped a picture of his vehicle (Page 5)—very
conspicuously”. There was no reason for some James Bond type of picture taking OHP officers
are very friendly and will allow their photo’s and that of their cruisers to be taken.
The reason (page 7) for not allowing clothes was the fact we need to ensure they are clean and
in good order. We have over the years at disasters received soiled and dirty diapers, ripped
clothes and other related items by well meaning citizens. We now have retired ladies who help us
select clothes that can be used by these folks. I have photos’ of thousands of clothes at Fall
Creek that were standing by ready to be delivered to these folks.
(Page 8) The occupants of the camp cannot leave the camp for any reason. That is true once
they were placed on the busses we had no way to determine their medical status. They have
been exposed to several elements and prior to allowing them off camp we wanted to have them
checked out by the Doctors and Nurses we had lined up at Falls Creek (Page 15 the people in the
blue jump suits). We also had 22 ambulances standing by for medical emergencies. We had a
similar camp in Northern Oklahoma and had 4 medical emergencies the night these good folks
arrived and they needed immediate transport to a local hospital. Many of these US Citizens
arrived with pre-existing medical conditions.
The reason your “pop-tarts” were accepted is they are sealed in an enclosed package and are
“tamper proof”. We are trying to protect our Louisiana friends from the criminal element and bad
people that might want harm done to them. This is the reason Apples and Oranges were not
allowed. I wonder if this lady allowed her children to go around on Thanksgiving and accept open
candy from strangers.
Oklahoma never had the intention of accepting 5,000 guests (page 9) as she stated. Our cap and
the cap that our governor worked out was 3,000 at falls creek. This is the maximum number of
meals, toys, clothes and other related things that needed to be in place prior to our guest
arriving.
The Cell phones were put in place by our Office of Emergency Management due to a request of
our emergency workers since cell phone coverage is so poor. Cingular and others donated the

towers and equipment including the coverage. We also place these cell towers at Falls Creek so
once the people were on their feet they could start calling loved ones throughout the country and
inform them they were OK.
The toys she refers to must first be checked. We have had “Christian groups” donate toys such
as swords, toy guns and other devices that usually mean harm donated to our causes over the
years so we check them closely before allowing any kids to play with them.
The meals were going to be provided by the American Red Cross and the Salvation Army. We at
the Health Department were requiring that they eat hot food with plenty of vegetables not the
“junk food” that this lady stated she was brining. Snacks were to be laid out during the day and
night for their use, but meals which included the basic food groups were required 3 times a day.
If you have any questions concerning Oklahoma intent please feel free to give me a call at
PHONE NUMBER REMOVED DUE TO FREAKS! Monday through Friday.
Ed Kostiuk
Oklahoma State Dept of Health
Emergency Management
www.abovetopsecret.com...
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Valhall
Indeed, I just read that other thread, and replied with interest. I was going to provide a link to
it on this thread, but you beat me to it.
I thought it was pretty cool that Ed took the time to respond, I guess it's just policy since this
thing blew up in their faces, but I still thought it was nice.
Some of this explanations still don't hold water, but at least FEMA is on record on ATS now.
That counts for something anyway.
I think he got too many responses, he's not going to be able to reply to them, but I had some
questions for him. I think he's involved in Bioweapon containment, or some similar field, so I
asked him some questions about NOLA labs storing biological weapons like anthrax and plague.
I think that may be the root cause for all the quarantine procedures. FEMA may still be trying to
figure out who's got what. Doesn't excuse everything, but it's a good start to making sense of
the seemingly nonsensical government stance on certain issues, like freedom of movement for
the refugees, and the prohibitions against civilians interacting with the refugees.
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marg6043 posted on 11-9-2005 @ 02:34 PM
Val, you are the best.
When you have "Officials" answering back that means that the word and the importance of your
first accounts experience is reaching everybody out there.
Your accounts are like Rant said Honest, I will add, believable, real and trustworthy.
You rock girl.
Keep the good work, I may not post much but I am reading every page of this very good
thread.
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Selective_ID posted on 11-9-2005 @ 04:51 PM
I've read this, over and over.
#1. I don't feel it's a detainment camp.
Why?
Just because they have strict rules, doesn't mean they're trying to break anyone down, and
starve them to death.
There are going to be a large number of people, and order MUST be kept, otherwise those
people could overrun the place.
#2. They can't cook for themselfs.

I understand this, some cabins may stockpile food that is more nutritious, and another cabin's
inhabitants may stockpile food not so, and someone hears "cabin 14 had steaks!" well #, we
only had hot pockets, that's b.s.!

It can lead to some real trouble, it'd be a real media nightmare, so they're making sure they all
get the same thing, to treat them equally in this manner.
#3. Issue with the clothes.

Let's be reasonable here, there were ALOT of people who were left homeless, and NOONE can
replace, or be expected to, theyre entire life savings, clothes, etc, so these people get what
they get, as it's donated, and they're trying to make sure everyone gets an equal amount of
clothing, etc, without one person having the BETTER of the pick... this could indeed cause a
riot...think about it, someone who was just LOOTING, goes into a place, and is given mediocre
clothing, and one person gets high end brand name.. this situation would be just like prison...
and I know, I've been locked up for 18 months, I know how easy it is to snap in there...myself
included.
#4. They can leave, but can't come back.

Well no *way*, this isnt a ** free for all come get whatever you want *funny* flea market.
Mod Edit: Removed Profanity
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Originally posted by Selective_ID

I've read this, over and over.
#1. I don't feel it's a detainment camp.
Why?
Just because they have strict rules, doesn't mean they're trying to break anyone down, and
starve them to death.
There are going to be a large number of people, and order MUST be kept, otherwise those
people could overrun the place.
#2. They can't cook for themselfs.

I understand this, some cabins may stockpile food that is more nutritious, and another cabin's
inhabitants may stockpile food not so, and someone hears "cabin 14 had steaks!" well #, we
only had hot pockets, that's b.s.!

It can lead to some real trouble, it'd be a real media nightmare, so they're making sure they all
get the same thing, to treat them equally in this manner.
#3. Issue with the clothes.

Let's be reasonable here, there were ALOT of people who were left homeless, and NOONE can
replace, or be expected to, theyre entire life savings, clothes, etc, so these people get what they
get, as it's donated, and they're trying to make sure everyone gets an equal amount of clothing,
etc, without one person having the BETTER of the pick... this could indeed cause a riot...think
about it, someone who was just LOOTING, goes into a place, and is given mediocre clothing, and
one person gets high end brand name.. this situation would be just like prison...and I know, I've
been locked up for 18 months, I know how easy it is to snap in there...myself included.
#4. They can leave, but can't come back.

Well no s***, this isnt a f***ing free for all come get whatever you want f***in flea market.
I think you should contact Ed - he left his phone number. The group he works for probably has
a position open for you.
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desert rat posted on 11-9-2005 @ 05:21 PM
Awesome report. Sounds and looks like a real internment camp.
FEMA is all about caging the masses.
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Watchman77 posted on 11-9-2005 @ 06:30 PM

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord

Just wanted to let you know that I moderate a forum on Delphi & have this message posted as
the featured story with a link back to ATS.
I believe that it is very possible they put the whole thing on stand down because of this story &
the publicity it is getting.
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ainitfunny posted on 11-9-2005 @ 07:43 PM
Thanks Folks- This is what our forefathers meant when they called us to be vigilant to preserve
and defend our freedom from all enemies foreign and domestic.
One entry found for[B] vigilant.[/B]
Main Entry: vig·i·lant
Pronunciation: 'vi-j&-l&nt
Function: adjective
Etymology: Middle English, from Middle French, from Latin vigilant-, vigilans, from present
participle of vigilare[B] to keep watch, stay awake, from vigil awake
: alertly watchful especially to avoid danger
synonym see WATCHFUL
- vig·i·lant·ly adverb[/B]
(♦Per Merriam-Webster.)
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spliff4020 posted on 12-9-2005 @ 01:07 AM

Ok, i read the original post and pics. It was interesting, but whats the point? Whats the
conspiricy? Of course you cant just walk in and drop whatever you feel they want, whereever
you want it. They need to maintain control. If they are expecting those kinds of numbers, there
HAS to be organization. You (valhal) even admitted your error trying to leave toiletries for
women in a mens only dorm.
What next? women clothes to? No, rather, they have lots of clothes. The process them, arrange
them by size and make sure that EVERYONE gets what they need. If you leave random bags,
people will be fighting for the cool shirt and shoes.
You cant just walk in and give em food. Who the hell are you? How does anyone know that your
not a racist who laced it with poison? No, they handle that.
You sounded like you were on a crusade to save them from starving. If thats the case your a
week to late. Now that order is being restored, the last thing they need, is everyone dropping in
where ever they feel like, bringing whatever they feel like. There has to be organization.
As mentioned previously, no you cant just come and go as you please. The reasons are right.
When will you back? What about your empty bed? Not to mention, who knows what kinds of
diseases and viruses these people have. Better to keep em there (remote) then unleashing
them on the populace.
Considering what you spent on food, toiletries, clothes and the gas to get there, you guys could
have just cut a big check to the red cross, or someone else if you dont trust them. It sounds
like you went there looking for a fight. You said you even brought your camera, incase the red
cross gave you a hard time.
Why not stay out of the way and let the people do their jobs. Why not do what has been asked,
and donate cash?
That being said, your a good person for trying to help and Im not slamming your efforts, but I
just dont see much of a story here. Alls youve shown is some pics of an empty camp waiting to
help some people and a couple of cop cars. I dont see how you can call this a detainment camp.
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Riwka posted on 12-9-2005 @ 01:46 AM
I think the people within this camp - Americans, used to their freedom - now feel like prisoners.
For sure they not only need assistance in housing, employment and food relief, but also spiritual
and emotional support.
Val, your motive was to help one another, to reach out to your "guest-neighbor“ with love, care
and compassion.
I think you reached a lot. Your familiy not only showed those poor people that they are not
alone. You also sent out a mesage into the world:
We are our brothers and sisters keepers.
[edit on 12-9-2005 by Riwka]
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Dusty05 posted on 12-9-2005 @ 09:55 AM
New here....
But I just had to comment on this thread. Excellent!
I live in Alabama, and when all the evacutions started, the local govenment stated that FEMA
would be renting space in Guntersville State park and placing motor homes and travel trailers
on site for the evacuees to stay in. Interestingly enough, last night on the news, one local
official came on and stated that they would NOT be placing these evacuees in our area because
of concerns that these people would be carrying some sort disease outbreak. YIKES!
I want to help these folks just as much as anyone, but not at the expense of our own local
public health. It is kind of a catch-22.
Dusty
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soficrow posted on 12-9-2005 @ 11:06 AM

The official government rebuttal aside - this remains the most important thread on ATS, IMO.
Seems to me that the eyewitness reports and personal accounts are going to be our BEST
source of honest information about this catastrophe. And I really don't want to hear any "your
sources suck" arguments.
I found this eyewitness account mesmerizing. It's posted by subtle on the wecomeinpeace
thread "Disbelief - Former FEMA Officials Speak Out."
QUOTE (excerpt)
- By Monday afternoon, Katrina passed and all was good. The French Quarter, where my
counsin was at, suffered just minor damage.
- Tuesday, people that stayed in New Orleans but did not go to the SuperDome, came out,
surveyed the damage, some were partying, others had cookouts, everyone breathed a sigh of
relief.
- Wednesday, the levees broke and the flood started. Everyone was in shock and couldn't
believe it.
- By Thursday, many parts of New Orleans was flooded but not "the entire city" as the media
reported. The French Quarter had very little to no flooding. The Garden District, where Tulane
and Loyola are, had about 1 to 2 inches of flooding and severe tree damage.
END QUOTE
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cryoruggie posted on 12-9-2005 @ 12:03 PM

You know - I can't help but sympathise with the FEMA staff handling that camp. I live in
Minneaplis, and we have had several cases in the past years where poeple have slipped pins
and razors into Haloween hand-outs.
Can you imagine if there were people in Oklahoma that might do something similar in the food
breing brought in?
But everyone lambasts FEMA for taking the simplest precautions such as not allowing food not
in tamperproof containers.
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Originally posted by cryoruggie

I live in Minneaplis, and we have had several cases in the past years where poeple have slipped
pins and razors into Haloween hand-outs.
Do you have a source for this please? because i was under the impression it was an urban
myth. i would like to see some (several?) news stories, if you have links to them.
thanking you in anticipation.
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Originally posted by cryoruggie

You know - I can't help but sympathise with the FEMA staff handling that camp. I live in
Minneaplis, and we have had several cases in the past years where poeple have slipped pins and
razors into Haloween hand-outs.
Can you imagine if there were people in Oklahoma that might do something similar in the food
breing brought in?
But everyone lambasts FEMA for taking the simplest precautions such as not allowing food not in
tamperproof containers.
You know, I have not missed that the list of reasons to be grateful for FEMA continues to grow.
Please understand I am paying attention. So far we should be grateful that FEMA is:
1. Protecting the refugees from rioting and killing each other.

2. Protecting the refugees from the outside populace bent on killing them with dirty and
poisonous donations.
3. Protecting the outside populace from the infectious refugees.
I'll update the list as the reasons continue to come in.
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RyanC posted on 12-9-2005 @ 01:45 PM
I would suppose that the military are there for oen reason alone---intimidation. Of course, the
official reason might be that they are seen first thing to "establish a security presence," or
something of the sort, but really that's just a niced-up way of saying that they are there ---in a
highly visible manner---in order to intimidate people.
---Ryan
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xu posted on 12-9-2005 @ 02:06 PM

great article and great contrubition
I just wanted to point out that David Icke Headlines page is featuring your article and linking
to this page, I dont know if anybody else mentioned that in the previous pages though. I dont
really care what Ickes other theories are but that headlines page is mostly formed of well
gathered and sourced articles from around the web. so
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ByThePeople posted on 12-9-2005 @ 04:24 PM
Val - Really good post. The rebuttal from Ed might be genuine, but the attitudes that it reveals
are sadly mistaken. Let's take the Halloween candy myths: Snopes has some good research
here and here that shows the likelihood of that happening to be far short of a credible threat.
The story told by subtle is available on the web as a very good photo essay. I won't post the
link, because subtle might be protecting his cousin's identity, but it is being widely circulated.
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I do not have anything left to say in this thread. We had the opportunity to get direct answers
on the concerns I raised. That opportunity got chased off.
Mr. Ed gave the government's reasons for the policies. Those reasons were different than what
was told to us at the camp. The reasons he gave don't sit well with me, but they make more
sense than trying to prevent "these people" from rioting. If the government feels they need to
protect these people from US - that's better than acting like they need to control these people
because they are bad. I have no problem accepting Mr. Ed's explanation as to why the policies
were put in place. The more major concerns I had that regarded restriction of civil rights weren't
answered. But that's the way it goes when people decide to act like brainless animals and chase
some one off who is attempting to cooperate.
I'm not going to deal in any further speculation on this situation. This whole week has been a
very nerve-racking experience for me with me feeling torn between whether I was doing right in
trying to protect my identity, versus "legitimizing" my account with mainstream media, etc. I
can tell you that speaking up for your concerns on a matter like this can be a great appetite
suppressant - just in case any of you are looking to drop a few pounds. It will also make your
hands shake.
There are no occupants at Falls Creek and it doesn't appear there will be, which is a very
different situation than the night I wrote the story... so there is really no point in endless
speculation at this point. There's no question at this point whether anyone is about to have their
civil rights restricted at Falls Creek. They aren't. They're not coming.
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they see ALL posted on 12-9-2005 @ 06:15 PM


They're not coming.
sorry...
but, why aren't they???
thanks...
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Michigan_Granny posted on 12-9-2005 @ 07:37 PM
Valhall! Do not give up! Our country needs concerned citizens like you! You opened a box of
worms for all to see. If we all wear blinders and turn the other way, what would happen? It's
people like you that have and will make our country strong! I now can see what I couldn't
before! As I am sure many more have!
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Watchman77 posted on 13-9-2005 @ 04:55 AM
Valhall..
Take heart in that it is very possible the reason Falls Creek isn't going to be used as a
Detainment camp is because you exposed their plan.
Just curious, but have you been back there since they decided not to use it?
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Samurai_of_I_Am posted on 13-9-2005 @ 05:38 AM
So;......... it begins..........
A comment to FredT and BillyBob, and anybody who doesn't know.........We where we EVER
free, U.S.A. was NEXT free, ever, it was born a secret nation smoke screened by the illusion of
freedom, do u REALLY know hat the statue of liberty means....??????? It means Anythin but
land of the free and home of the brave.......more like land of secrets and home of the fooled
ensalved. The statue is a Giant torch, the sig of the Free Masons, it means not Land of the Free
it means So u think you are free? To ValHall and others.....revalations speaks of people not
being able to buy or sell without his name or number on there hand or forehead, perhaps this is
next at this concentration camp u visited, or perhaps this is Bush controling all oil, or perhaps is
something havn't thought of yet. Bush is the 3rd and final anti-Christ....hard to except....? I'm
95% of the way beleivng he is, eveyday the man becomes closer to fufilling the measure of the
anti-Christ, www.bushisantichrist.com , look at it seriously, Revelations 13:17-13:18, Basically
this name is of man and it's number is 666, 666 is confused with the Devil, the Devil's number
is really 613, 666 in the bible STATES that 666 is man's number. Basically 666 is a code for a
man's name, use the Jewish Hebrew letter numeric system where every letter has an
equivalent, or the Pythagorean System, or the Chaldean System an lets not forget the ASCII
stands for American Standard Code for Information Interchange. All 4 systems has George
Walker Bush equivalent to the number 666, Revalations 13 starts out about the US and it's last
10 presidents being the 10 horns and being crowned and so on, this is all happening now,
Revalations, read it, it is coming, Fema...........I'm repulsed by them, look into these links on
the 9/11 attack if you want to know how good Fema REALLY is. Please watch them.
part 1
Video Link
part 2
Video Link 2
part 3
Video Link 3
Plus all the nautral disasters happened, happing, and getting ready to happen, super volcanos
and earthquakes etc. Let's not forget the Earthquake of Dec. in 2005, Oops I forgot that one
hasn't happend yet, but what about that war that started back in 2006, wait.......darn it that
one didn't happen yet either.....but it will. Maybe on June 6, 2006 ,( again Bush's number, look
at the date , (666), :-( Frighterned just a little), WWIII folks, we are close now, oh and lets not
forget EQ-Pegasi.........I got the very time on this, Dec. 21, 10:58a.m. 2012. 7 years or life as
we know it, Enjoy while u can, be ready. U need to have I Am in your heart, u must beleive.
Some da you are going to die, just something to think about. Questions, want more, then ask
me. I see what else I got.
Sincerely; Samurai of I Am
[edit on 13-9-2005 by Samurai_of_I_Am]
[edit on 13-9-2005 by Nerdling]
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cryoruggie posted on 13-9-2005 @ 11:45 AM

Horrible Performance of Government.... Obvious lies
Jack Kelly: No shame

The federal response to Katrina was not as portrayed
Sunday, September 11, 2005
It is settled wisdom among journalists that the federal response to the devastation wrought by
Hurricane Katrina was unconscionably slow.
Jack Kelly is national security writer for the Post-Gazette and The Blade of Toledo, Ohio
(jkelly@post-gazette.com, 412-263-1476).
"Mr. Bush's performance last week will rank as one of the worst ever during a dire national
emergency," wrote New York Times columnist Bob Herbert in a somewhat more strident
expression of the conventional wisdom.
But the conventional wisdom is the opposite of the truth.
Jason van Steenwyk is a Florida Army National Guardsman who has been mobilized six times for
hurricane relief. He notes that:
"The federal government pretty much met its standard time lines, but the volume of support
provided during the 72-96 hour was unprecedented. The federal response here was faster than
Hugo, faster than Andrew, faster than Iniki, faster than Francine and Jeanne."
For instance, it took five days for National Guard troops to arrive in strength on the scene in
Homestead, Fla. after Hurricane Andrew hit in 1992. But after Katrina, there was a significant
National Guard presence in the afflicted region in three.
Journalists who are long on opinions and short on knowledge have no idea what is involved in
moving hundreds of tons of relief supplies into an area the size of England in which power lines
are down, telecommunications are out, no gasoline is available, bridges are damaged, roads and
airports are covered with debris, and apparently have little interest in finding out.
So they libel as a "national disgrace" the most monumental and successful disaster relief
operation in world history.
I write this column a week and a day after the main levee protecting New Orleans breached. In
the course of that week:
More than 32,000 people have been rescued, many plucked from rooftops by Coast Guard
helicopters.
The Army Corps of Engineers has all but repaired the breaches and begun pumping water out of
New Orleans.
Shelter, food and medical care have been provided to more than 180,000 refugees.
Journalists complain that it took a whole week to do this. A former Air Force logistics officer had
some words of advice for us in the Fourth Estate on his blog, Moltenthought:
"We do not yet have teleporter or replicator technology like you saw on 'Star Trek' in college
between hookah hits and waiting to pick up your worthless communications degree while the
grown-ups actually engaged in the recovery effort were studying engineering.
"The United States military can wipe out the Taliban and the Iraqi Republican Guard far more
swiftly than they can bring 3 million Swanson dinners to an underwater city through an area the
size of Great Britain which has no power, no working ports or airports, and a devastated and
impassable road network.
"You cannot speed recovery and relief efforts up by prepositioning assets (in the affected areas)
since the assets are endangered by the very storm which destroyed the region.
"No amount of yelling, crying and mustering of moral indignation will change any of the facts
above."
"You cannot just snap your fingers and make the military appear somewhere," van Steenwyk
said.
Guardsmen need to receive mobilization orders; report to their armories; draw equipment;
receive orders and convoy to the disaster area. Guardsmen driving down from Pennsylvania or
Navy ships sailing from Norfolk can't be on the scene immediately.
Relief efforts must be planned. Other than prepositioning supplies near the area likely to be
afflicted (which was done quite efficiently), this cannot be done until the hurricane has struck
and a damage assessment can be made. There must be a route reconnaissance to determine if
roads are open, and bridges along the way can bear the weight of heavily laden trucks.
And federal troops and Guardsmen from other states cannot be sent to a disaster area until
their presence has been requested by the governors of the afflicted states.
Exhibit A on the bill of indictment of federal sluggishness is that it took four days before most
people were evacuated from the Louisiana Superdome.
The levee broke Tuesday morning. Buses had to be rounded up and driven from Houston to New
Orleans across debris-strewn roads. The first ones arrived Wednesday evening. That seems
pretty fast to me.
A better question -- which few journalists ask -- is why weren't the roughly 2,000 municipal and
school buses in New Orleans utilized to take people out of the city before Katrina struck?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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This link was passed to me with the request that I post this.
The following video link is on Oklahoma's kfor.com. The partial transcript below is where the
woman is describing being in a particular shelter prior to coming to Oklahoma.
newsok.com.../main
partial transcript:
Taylor and her husband were shuttled from shelter to shelter. "It was actually horrible. Because
they had dead bodies and everything else laying in the walkways and stuff. And they put us in
like a dormitory cell. We couldn't leave and half the time we didn't have no water..."
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Hey valhall, I agree, don't give up. Your intelligence and passion is an asset to the country.
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Hey valhall, I agree, don't give up. Your intelligence and passion is an asset to the country.
Yeah - I can single-handedly cause the greatest pop-tart conspiracy on the face of the earth.
I'm sure that's got to be high on the country's asset list.
* *
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Hey valhall,
I'm not sure I get that last post. I wasn't trying to be a wise guy, I meant it. I wasn't mocking
you or trying to be funny
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Hey valhall,
I'm not sure I get that last post. I wasn't trying to be a wise guy, I meant it. I wasn't mocking
you or trying to be funny
No, I was mocking me. lol
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Valhall/Lieberman in 2008
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Regardless or not wherever I agree with you on everything, I must say I do admire your
dedication and the obvious fact that no matter what, you sincerely care about your fellow
humans.
I'm not trying to suck up or anything, I have been thinking just now (and the rooms full of
smoke because of it) and I found that at no point can I say that I thought you were trying to
cause any harm to anyone.
I think a few times in my head I forgot that important fact and irrelevant to how you me or
anyone else thinks the worlds problems should be solved that is the crucial aspect of the whole
thing.
And for that I humbly commend you and I know it's hard slog for you at the moment but keep
your chin up and keep going regardless of what anyone says otherwise (including me)! As long
as you don't forget to stay reasonable and open (which I don't think you will) you can mainly do
good I think!
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Mirlin11 posted on 13-9-2005 @ 10:02 PM
Val,
You will always have my respect for reporting what you saw at the Falls Creek Camp. You did
the right thing. If no one is residing there, it is probably because your account of what you saw
there was so widely read that whatever FEMA planned to do would've been too heavily
scrutinized by the public. It appears that your questions aren't going to be answered and neither
will mine. I agree with the others. People like you who step up and take a stand will keep
America strong for the people.
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ainitfunny posted on 14-9-2005 @ 04:20 AM
There are a lot of different ways to put this puzzle together. Here I take the known facts
( pieces) we have and SPECULATE about how they might logically fit together.
There were THREE real justifications the authorities could have employed to carry out forced
relocation and imprisonment(If that is what they indeed wanted).
1."REBELLION".
2."LOOTING"
3."DISEASE"
And, It seems to me every thing was in place to achieve at least one of the three. To the point
that JUST DAYS BEFORE KATRINA HIT A NEW LAW WAS PASSED MAKING "LOOTING" DURING A
STATE OF EMERGENCY A THREE YEAR, NO PAROLE OFFENSE.
Then SOMEBODY (ACTUALLY, EVERYBODY AT EVERY LEVEL OF AUTHORITY) CONCIOUSLY

CHOSE NOT TO EVACUATE THE POOREST (ALMOST ENTIRELY BLACK) SEGMENT OF THE
POPULATION, leaving the city for all practical purposes populated with nobody except "society's
burdensome members". The poor, the illiterate, the retarded, the blind, the elderly, the sick, the
imprisoned, the criminals not imprisoned, and all their even further dependant babies and
children.
The 1987 Miami Hearald article exposed documented proof of a Federal plan back then to
forcibly relocate 21 million "negros" if they could be accused of "rebellion". So such an idea is
not one our leaders have never considered employing. It is NOT UNTHINKABLE (except to
American citizens) to our government.
The justification of "disease" is more of a problematical tar baby to employ. Instead of the
normal public reaction to lock away and forget lawbreakers, "diseased" becomes "poor sick" and
DRAWS public attention and concern for the "innocent, ill" people.Just the kind of attention to
the camps that the authorities would not want.
UNLESS the "diseased" are attributed to having something communicable, or something NEW, a
health THREAT to the rest of the population, but if that story is used, AGAIN, it would DRAW the
public's attention to the camps, out of fear that these "infected" "carriers" might somehow
escape or spread their alleged dire malady to the rest of us.
So all they had to do was not maintain the levees, let New Orleans continue to sink and wait for
the INEVITABLE DISASTER their experts had advised them, AND THEY ABSOLUTELY KNEW
awaited New Orleans. Then, the objective, "Rebellion and/or Looting" were the inevitable
product of rounding up the undesirables and penning them up without food and water for nearly
a week.
Rebellion could be falsely attributed by merely attributing EVERY sound of a gunshot to an

attack on authorities. (And, more sounds of gunshots COULD be arranged if what occurred
under the deliberately dire circumstance seemed insufficient to justify further witholding aid to
the people) We did personally watch a live news coverage where police fearfully barricaded in
their station ATTRIBUTED and ASSUMED every gunshot they merely HEARD to be an "attack on
us". Their response?
Fire blindly into the dark towards the welfare housing where they were sure the shot was fired.
They had no idea what man woman or child THEY may have shot in the darkness or even that
the shot was not someone defending their home, they just ASSUMED all gunshots they heard to
be attacks on police. God help anyone shooting a water moccasin threatening them. I concede
some police who tried to stop the frenzy their elected leaders had generated in the city risk their
life doing so and some WERE killed. Others recognizing they and the poor were "set up', and the
impossible circumstance that THEY TOO were put in by their leaders, more wisely stepped back
and simply tried to keep anyone from getting hurt during the melee.
Unfortunately for the powers that be who wanted to remake New Orleans into a Southern
version of RENO, without the "undesirable element" and without the business expense of buying
them out and relocating them. Let the Feds do that at taxpayer expense. The developers then
inherit and bulldoze the prime development real estate once occupied by New Orleans
impoverished, and reap a enormous return on a now much less expensive investment venture.
All the while demanding the taxpayers construct new dikes for the wealthier classes to occupy
the new rebuilt city, dikes comparable to the engineering used in DUTCH sea walls .
But they waited too many years. In came the internet, too many reporters. too many voices and
witnesses, Digital cameras, camera phones, instant messaging, bloggers, too hard to manage
public opinion and perception. In come people like valhall throwing light and questions on
preparations that were NOT meant to be examined closely. People gathering evidence about
relief and rescue turned away, supplies and fuel seized, Communications equipment
DELIBERATELY delayed by forcing it to come by bus instead of plane starting its trip from
California on the third day after the "cane" hit.
Sound like a Fantastic conspiracy theory? Possibly. But a plausible one. It remains to be seen if
a probable one. When public opinion did NOT support the government severly hammering down
a vicious "rebellion"(as they thought they would), but instead started probing the WHY's of all
this strange, unusual government OBSTRUCTION of relief to disaster victims, the powers that be
suddenly woke up to the realization that the "jig was up", the plan only partially successful and
the prime task left to COVER THE ASSES OF THE CULPABLE at the top and behind the curtain,
pulling all the strings on the whole event. The "mission", Falls Creek and others like it were
jettisoned and the new spin and PR focus to make the whole thing appear to be a simple
confusion of overlapping authorities, mismanagement and SNAFU primarily at the lowest level
possible starting with blaming the victim and on to targeting the incompetant boob selected and
installed (Head of FEMA) to take the fall if inquiry got too heated.
Something to mull over, anyway. Could turn out like the rash of "suicides" we see happening to
micro biologists. Suicide, lotta that going around, especially among government people who
know too much, must be contagious, eh?
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Mirlin11 posted on 14-9-2005 @ 11:04 AM

Now that is the most plausible explanation of events I've heard yet. I'm really curious to see the
reactions your speculative comments generate among the members. I'm sure some will
denounce it as the rantings of a paranoid conspiracy theorist, but I do not. You've taken known
information and pieced it together into a plausible theory on what happened. There are links to
publicly available information in the "Call for Katrina Research Project" thread that support your
theory.
Val shed some light on something they didn't want seen or heard by the general public. Who
knows what else will be "accidently found out" and exposed. Bush taking responsibility and
replacing the FEMA director won't stop the questions from being asked. There are too many
reporters and camera crews in New Orleans reporting on things for them to hide everything.
Something is bound to surface.
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I'm impressed by ainitfunny's post too.
You have voted ainitfunny for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have one more
vote left for this month.
Originally posted by Mirlin11

Val shed some light on something they didn't want seen or heard by the general public. Who
knows what else will be "accidently found out" and exposed. Bush taking responsibility and
replacing the FEMA director won't stop the questions from being asked. There are too many
reporters and camera crews in New Orleans reporting on things for them to hide everything.
Something is bound to surface.
Unfortunately, it's my belief things won't surface as i strongly believe the media is owned by the
government.
i speak as a (nearly 10-year) past employee of a major newspaper in the UK and i saw how
things were pulled from stories just as they were going to print while i worked there. (those
stories are besides the point of Valhall's article, but just to say i have witnessed how notices
from governments to censor articles are pulled.)
i continue to be grateful to Valhall for her reportage.
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mhare posted on 14-9-2005 @ 09:38 PM
I am just jumping in, read only the first 4 pages. I live near McKinney, Texas. I found out our so
called new long term shelter at the old Walmart on 380 has 50 people left and they plan to close
it down. I also understand the ones left are the ones not trying to help themselves or
hoodlums...etc..
Anyway. I was thinking. Maybe these camps are in place for those types of people? Not that I
am saying that it is right or wrong, but maybe it has been held out for the left overs who will
not help for themselves, or have records.
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Well, what do you know, some of what I suspected is coming out.
Here is a quote from a Knight-Ridder newspaper investigation report:
The Chertoff memo indicates that the response to Katrina wasn't left to disaster professionals,
but was run out of the White House, said George Haddow, a former deputy chief of staff at
FEMA during the Clinton administration and the co-author of an emergency management
textbook.
"It shows that the president is running the disaster, the White House is running it as opposed to
Brown or Chertoff," Haddow said. Brown "is a convenient fall guy. He's not the problem really.
The problem is a system that was marginalized."
www.realcities.com...

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Ram posted on 15-9-2005 @ 08:55 AM
No Return...
Falls Creek - Might just be a temporay station.
Number 53 -
Maybe we should not worry, if they get a job or food 2 or 3 times a day.
Maybe the plan - as for Mr.Ed - are simply to make sure the victims of the hurrican Katrina are
taken care of - And made sure they all ready to go for the Labour-Camp - Where they can have
a "job" - And FEMA meals...
Im sure no-one are told. If indeed - Cabin 53 are just a temporay station - Not even the guards
would know - They just do their jobs with the best intentions.
And why did the guard let Mrs.Val inside the compound 53 ? - Maybe this guard know almost as
little as we do.
If indeed their is a big FEMA-plan - I don't really think you hand out the whole cleansing plan to
a guardsman.
The Guardmans orders would be much more simpel than that! - Lets say - (this will not
happend) - Giving him an order to keep all out! - Cause we gonna wipe out these people tha't
will come to Cabin-53 - We gonna tag them - Number them - Before we send them to the "Work
makes you free" camp... In the name of NWO.
You see - We get 40 each time - And we just get them on a list before we send them to the real
camp - we might even - put a small microchip inside them -
So FEMA can track them on the way to the next stop. (Does FEMA have Sattelites in any
way...?) -
And by the way - if they leave - They won't come back - ever! (i wonder why)..
And if they are already tagged with the small implant before entering the real camps - then we
will have no or less trouble of putting them to the work-shift - when they arrive - to the
barbedwired camp - Will we?
We will take care of it - we are problem solvers - Remember?
And why don't we talk about it in the media - Even though you little people can't sleep at night -
cause you worry about it...?
Simple : It's so secret - we can't talk about it.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Any way im new in this forum - i have been reading about all your worries - i just wan't to point
out - that the bright-minded son said "welcome to Nazi germany" - not krakow!
Sometimes we people see the truth - but we tend to forget it - and we walk on as if nothing
happend - to us.
I think the government are really considerable glad - tha't non of you thourght that such a place
as church number 53 - could just be a temporay station before shipping people to the real
camp.
So my question is:
Are there any real - barbewired camps - near falls creek? - Within a 80miles radius - ? that is
the issue.
Can't you see it ?
I have no futher comments - Ram -
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There is an interesting thread where an ex Airforce Vet who was trained in disaster relief
deployment discusses why deployment didn't happen for four days: Another possibility
She gives some pretty detailed info on what she was trained to do and indicated that disaster
relief vehicles and resources were in place close by and could've been easily and quickly
deployed to provide relief to the victims, so the excuses on why there was a four day delay in
providing disaster relief just don't cut it. I wonder... If the powerplant in N.O. became flooded,
wouldn't that introduce "toxins" into the flood waters, causing anyone exposed to the water to
be exposed to radiation?
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cobol posted on 15-9-2005 @ 03:25 PM
Joel Osteen and Katrina
Originally posted by BaastetNoir
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cobol posted on 15-9-2005 @ 03:36 PM
Joel Osteen and Katrina
Originally posted by BaastetNoir
What you have to remember about Joel Osteen and his ilk is that helping hurricane victims in an
organized church way does not correspond to his positive Christianity outlook of the rich
christian life. The obvious class distinctions of his message and his blatant appeals for material
greed as the reward for being a good christian does not contrast well with the obvious need of
the evacuees.Since the class he is trying to endear himself to with the old Gospel of Wealth
message have a low tolerance for bad circumstances, it is not profitable for him to help these
people. Contrast what Jesus himself says in the Gospel in the Synagouge of Nazerath with this
man's pandering to the rich and the rich want-to-be's.
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Alikospah posted on 15-9-2005 @ 08:07 PM
Aid turned away in Colorado
Val is not alone, seems to be the same here too:
"DISASTER GROUPIE
In flood of helping, don’t forget local needs
Colorado Springs recently received its first contingent of exhausted, shellshocked Katrina
evacuees. I went down to the Red Cross disaster relief headquarters with a basket of clothing,
and to offer pedicures to the weary women from New Orleans. But I was met at the door by a
uniformed police officer guarding access to the evacuees."
www.gazette.com...

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Dulcimer posted on 16-9-2005 @ 01:48 AM
I found this on google news
bellaciao.org...
I didnt read this entire thread, but I imagine someone from here wrote it.
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Ginny in CO posted on 18-9-2005 @ 01:49 AM
Definiitely check out ...
The link above in Mirlin's post. It is a lot of info, the gal doing it is posting as she discovers stuff
and having a few problems. That said, her thesis could explain a lot of what Val saw/was told at
Falls Creek.
Even before I got to that thread, I didn't find the Falls Creek story all that alarming. The medical
personell in blue jumpsuits would eventually have included nurses and doctors trained for this
kind of thing. Overloading the emergency rooms of nearby Oklahoma towns would have created
a much worse problem.
FEMA has to "outsource" some of the work. I really don't see that the State of Oklahoma's
response and preparation has been out of line for what the needs, problems and available
resources are likely to be. If anything, they seem to have done a pretty good job of having
secured living quarters for that number of people and the fire trucks, ambulances, etc ready and
waiting. Having lived with too little police protection, the evacuees might just be very happy to
have the extras.
On top of the medical concerns, including the exposure to the toxic waters, there will be many
psychological issues. In addition to depression, it is extremely difficult to gauge what kinds of
PTSD reactions will start to surface as time elapses. If these people are from the thousands
stranded in NO, not those who evacuated before the storm, they probably had inadequate
health care going into this.
Could a summer camp that has heating, out of an urban area and away from a lot of TV,
actually be better for people who need to decompress and pull themselves together? Part of the
success of Outward Bound and similar wilderness experiences is due to the healing capacity of
mother nature - even for urbanites.
Perhaps the camp command doesn't have the capacity to take 1000 + people to local churches.
Um, do the Church members who camp there go to the local churches or have services right
where they are?
As far as self-deployment in standard disaster situations, it can be a real problem. Even if you
have some training, the incidence of well intended rescuers becoming victims is too high. Since
this was far in excess of a standard disaster and the Federal response was not happening, a lot
of people went on in. In the case of places like Falls Creek, the potential for a few nuts to create
significant problems is the adult version of the idiots who had to put their chewing gum under
the desks in grade school. And far more dangerous.
The requests for people to bring donated items to central distribution areas saves the trouble of
having to
take the donated clothes, etc back to the women who volunteer their time to check them. And
sometimes cash is needed - to pay for gas, electricity, unusual needs, food.
It seems very likely that some of the initial precautions will be relaxed once people have been
medically checked out and settled in. If they haven't given up on the site altogether, it will have
plenty of scrutiny.
I have debated about bringing up what may seem trivial. To me, it is a part of American culture
that is very confused. Given all the posts ending with "Pop Tarts are NOT junk food" I have to
comment.
Maybe it is the definition of junk food that is the problem. Having studied nutrition for 40 years
and been in health care for almost 30 (RN), this is frankly an enormous problem that we are
paying for in health care costs. And it is only going to get worse.
I went to the aisle with pop tarts yesterday to check the contents - in case they had improved. I
only looked at the ones without the frosting. Pop Tarts have calories and a few vitamins from
the "enriched" white flour. The calories are from simple carbohydrates and fats. The fat is
partially hydrogenated and pop tarts have negligible fiber or protein. The simple carbs drive
blood sugar up very rapidly requiring the pancreas to dump a lot of insulin in the blood. After
enough years of doing this, you are very likely to become a diabetic. A healthy snack -or meal-
is low in simple carbs ( fresh fruit excepted), has a balance of carbs, fats and protein, plus fiber
and naturally occuring vitamins, minerals and phytonutrients. A high quality daily vitamin/
mineral supplement is now advocated by most nutritionists and doctors.
Want to talk conspiracy? Do you pay attention to the food industry commercials? The one I can't
believe is the gal watching a basketball game with her box of Cheese Its. In the dark
background you see headlights and her husband enters as she frantically changes the channel
to a tear jerker movie, hides the crackers and picks up a kleenix. Hubby decides to go upstairs
to watch the game and she waits for him to be out of earshot to change the channel and bring
out the cracker box while the voiceover says to "Get your own box" So, instead of sharing the
game together and sharing the box; the couple should practice deception so they can have their
own box of junk food?
I would certainly hope that the people in the camps could eventually be allowed to do some
cooking - especially what are called "comfort foods". It would also be beneficial for their mental
health and some of it could be in the Red Cross or Salvation Army food prep centers.. Teaching
their secrets of LA cooking would be another boost to their sanity. These things can be worked
out - when they have absorbed the initial shock and are up to the daily grind of fixing meals.
While I have concerns about government secrecy, taken to major excess by this administration,
I still try to look at a situation believing that people operate out of good intentions and are
usually willing to correct mistakes if not put on the defensive.
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XGovGirl posted on 18-9-2005 @ 04:22 PM
oh boy i really have to re-read this
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Have we determined that all prisoners have been accounted for in NO?
It appears that up here in the northeast, the evacuees are being called detainees by some
groups in the military.
When Bush asked for everyone in NO to please be identified and he used the $2000 card as an
incentive, I wondered if that was part of a cover-up operation to flush out some released
fugitives.
Any thoughts on this? (note, this is not a hijack attempt)
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Ginny in CO posted on 18-9-2005 @ 09:29 PM
Slightly off topic?
Actually one of the earlier criticisms that Sen Landrieau responded to was the effort expended to
shackle all the prisoners in the city/county jail. It seems to me the guards, police and sheriffs
had to get them thru some flooded areas to the overpass where they were picked up and sent
to other jails. (Remember a picture of a bunch of people in orange jumpsuits on the pavement?)
No they couldn't leave them there. The jail also had no water, food or electricity. The guards
were in danger of having an uprising. They certainly did not release them - there was never an
option of putting them out in that city. One of the ripple effects of this is absorbing these
prisoners and about 75 juveniles was the over-crowding in the other state facilities.
Also reported on a law school blog from a Baton Rouge lawyer is the total mess of the legal
system due to the lawyers and clients being displaced and many files (stored in basements)
being underwater.
I wonder if the detainees the military is referring to are the looters who have been arrested?
Just a follow up on some previous comments and my nutrition digression.
Ask prison guards if they want the meals cut back and made unappetizing. You will get a loud
NO.
There are few ways to pacify people you are keeping under lockdown. Food is one of the easier
ones.
As far as overall behavior, good nutrition helps.

A double blind study at one prison showed that when they were given a balanced diet and
limited junk food, their behavior was not as uncontrolled or violent.
Which could be why the Falls Creek people felt it was reasonable to offer healthy food choices
first.
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XGovGirl posted on 19-9-2005 @ 12:51 AM
This is like one injustice after the next for these people. Not even telling them where they are
headed, these poor people have been treated like dogs throughout this entire horrific event.
Other camps throughout the states:
forums.newslookup.com...
copyright & usage
XGovGirl posted on 19-9-2005 @ 01:27 AM
Merlin, Do you think it would be alright for me to post an new thread with all info. I have
regarding the actual non-call to active duty troops. I would be interested to post up my letter to
congress (I removed it from the last thread) as well as some info. regarding what I know about
specifics on who WASN'T called in (active duty) based on conversations I've had to friends who
are active duty military in surrounding states. If it isn't against rules here, I might post up a
new thread with all of the information regarding this because I keep having trouble with a lot of
the false information that has been provided by the media about who is to blame and false info.
about the way the military was called into action (or non-action).
I think I'll be able to clear up some things for people. I get fustrated by this everyday because it
is all I've heard about on the media about the National Guard. All of it is a bunch of hooey and
any of the top commanders I've heard (one) try to dispute anything, he was working for the
military and clearly lying out of his teeth because anyone who was active duty specifically in the
field of AFSOC Air Force Special Operations Command should know exactly what was available
that wasn't called upon.

Tomorrow I'll gather this all up and I'll also keep it as clear and short as possible. I also have a
friend working for the _ _ _ _hotline right now (fill in the blank), I have some second hand
gossip to share as well. Overall I just want to make some things clear to anyone who questions
the military structure and call to action. Any military person that wants to challenge me on this
and keep supporting this liar knows far too well that the only people responsible (beyond just
the State's responsibility) for the in-action or lag in military deployment were Rumsfeld and
Bush. This is no question, Bush is the Commander in Chief of the military. I'll share this all in a
new thread maybe in a Q & A style as to clear up a lot of the Questions I hear everyday about
the deployment of troops. The media did a good disservice to the country in passing on false
military information about the way "things work", to the general public. Everyday this fustrates
me beyond belief. I think I can answer a lot of questions people have and I'll also share some
thoughts directly from members of active duty military in an anonymous way, all who are quite
PO'ed but don't have the outlet to pass this expression along to the general public.
I also disclose absolutely no information that is "secret" per say, but just some common
knowledge that anyone can find on a website such as military.com or about.com about the ways
of the military.
I'd also like to point out some MAJOR issues about the base closure list that is now back in Bush
and Rumsfelds hands. I have a whole BOOK of information that I'll give you the cliff notes on
about this topic.
All while this whole country is fighting about who is to blame, if you knew the details of what
Bush has been doing since right after 9/11 with this base closure list and now even while this
Katrina event has unfolded before us, you will 100% be in understanding of who is to blame.
Bush and Rumsfeld have been working on their base closure list for quiet some time. There are
some GREAT bits of information about this you will like to hear.
Boy, maybe I should have been posting to this forum all along I've been screaming about these
issues on the wrong sites for quiet some time. A place where no one cares (myspace), I've been
yelling to some friends to start waking up to the truth and I've had some choice words for
members on military.com as well.
I have a lot of stuff to post so I'll try to cut it all down into one clear and short post with links.
Maybe I will just link up to my letters and to information I've been posting about the base
closure list for quiet some time. A lot of these issues are coming together now, and if you look
at the whole picture there is a lot of little tid bits that are important to everything that has taken
place. The state has some blame yes, but if you were in my shoes you would find absolutely no

way around this blame game to see who is at the most fault for the lack of in-action that took
place.
Sorry I have a hard time expressing myself in a few short sentences, I keep getting points taken
away for this but it is the only way I know how to communicate in written form I'll compose
everything offline and then upload it into a new thread tomorrow. I think I have some things
that might clear up a lot of questions for people. My post questioning nuclear contamination is
all over the place but it has taken me a while to get to where I'm at today in my thought
process, so trying to get others to jump into where I'm at now might take some winded posts.
I'll fix this with a new thread post tomorrow, it's going to take a bit but once I get it all together
it might make more sense for some.
[edit on 19-9-2005 by XGovGirl]
[edit on 19-9-2005 by XGovGirl]
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secretwise posted on 19-9-2005 @ 08:47 PM
DOES THS SOUND FAMILIAR?
"Refugees from New Orleans behind barbed wire in Utah"

twolostmoons.com...
No doubt about it, this is just the begining, FEMA is just waiting for a nuke or something bigger
and they are going round everyone in the cities, not that I care much seeing how I live in a rural
area near the State National Guard Training Facility
copyright & usage

This thread seems quite, so I thought I'd post some ancillary information related to evacuees in
shelters across the US as of September 20, 2005.
Hurricane Katrina Victims in Shelters
About 88,500 Hurricane Katrina refugees are in shelters in 25 states and Washington, D.C.,
according to the Red Cross and state officials.
LOUISIANA: 59,392 in 321 shelters

TEXAS: Estimated 16,000
MISSISSIPPI: 5,785 in 103 shelters
ARKANSAS: 1,750 in shelters
OKLAHOMA: 1,076 in three shelters
GEORGIA: 597
TENNESSEE: 571 in 10 shelters
ALABAMA: 535 in 25 shelters
COLORADO: 427 in one shelter
ILLINOIS: 341 in five shelters
FLORIDA: 308 in two shelters
WISCONSIN: 229 at one shelter
MASSACHUSETTS: 203 at Camp Edwards
RHODE ISLAND: 186 in a Navy housing complex in Middletown
WEST VIRGINIA: 185 at National Guard Camp Dawson
UTAH: 171 at Utah Army National Guard Camp Williams
SOUTH CAROLINA: 150 in one shelter
NORTH CAROLINA: 143
DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA: 134 in one Red Cross shelter
PENNSYLVANIA: 103 in at least two shelters
MICHIGAN: 83 at Fort Custer Training Center
ARIZONA: 76 in one shelter
CALIFORNIA: 39 at one shelter
OHIO: 28 at Rickenbacker Air National Guard base
INDIANA: 17 at the Indiana State Fairgrounds
MISSOURI: Fewer than 15 in shelters

copyright & usage
Skadi_the_Evil_Elf posted on 20-9-2005 @ 12:53 PM
My aunt just came up from Texas, and has given me independant confirmation of Val's
observations.
My aunt lives in Gordonville, Texas, three miles from the OK border. She is a Southern Baptist.
Her church also once occupied a part of this camp. They were asking for help and volunteers to
give their time and donations to help the refugees that would be coming in. My aunt, who is not
in the best physical health, still donated money and time. She crocheted a number of baby
clothes, knowing that winter was coming soon and nice warm baby clothes would be in demand
by many of the refugees.
She told me she was shocked, when the women who made the run up to the camp came back
with the homemade clothing, saying it had been rejected by the authorities who told them not
to bring private donations. My aunt also sent up a few cases of homeade jam, which were also
rejected.
The jam, while it was perfectly healthy and edible, i might be able to understand, but not the
rejection of the many sets of baby booties and baby jumpers, which were not simply second
hand dirty cast offs, but brand new home crocheted clothing.
I asked her, when she returned home, to ask around her church regarding other things
mentioned here. She promised she would, and her husband, a retired California sherriff, will
also do some checking. I hope to report back with any new info to contribute, but its looking
more and more like Vals observations were on the money.
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Questor posted on 20-9-2005 @ 02:31 PM


You don't understand the type of people that are about to come here...."
When I 1st read the above, I didn't know what the FEMA official meant. Then I read (see below)
& now understand. I didn't read all 18 pages of this thread. Maybe it has been alluded to
already.
An Unnatural Disaster: A Hurricane Exposes the Man-Made Disaster of the Welfare State by
Robert Tracinski
What we consider "normal" behavior in an emergency is behavior that is normal for people who
have values and take the responsibility to pursue and protect them. People with values respond
to a disaster by fighting against it and doing whatever it takes to overcome the difficulties they
face.
They don't sit around and complain that the government hasn't taken care of them. They don't
use the chaos of a disaster as an opportunity to prey on their fellow men. But what about
criminals and welfare parasites? Do they worry about saving their houses and property? They
don't, because they don't own anything. Do they worry about what is going to happen to their
businesses or how they are going to make a living? They never worried about those things
before. Do they worry about crime and looting? But living off of stolen wealth is a way of life for
them.
The welfare state--and the brutish, uncivilized mentality it sustains and encourages--is the man-
made disaster that explains the moral ugliness that has swamped New Orleans. And that is the
story that no one is reporting.
copyright & usage
menes posted on 20-9-2005 @ 06:53 PM

Falls Creek evacuee-less
This is the current situation:
Tuesday, 20 September 2005

by Bob Nigh
Managing Editor
Oklahoma Baptists breathed a unified sigh of disappointment Sept. 13 when Gov. Brad Henry
and Baptist General Convention of Oklahoma Executive Director-Treasurer Anthony Jordan
announced that evacuees from Hurricane Katrina would not be coming to Falls Creek after all.
During a press conference at the State Capitol, Henry said Federal Emergency Management
Agency (FEMA) officials had told him that few more evacuees would be assigned to Oklahoma.
“FEMA no longer wants to house evacuees in temporary shelters, but in long-term housing such
as apartment complexes and some private homes,” Henry said. Henry and state emergency
management officials told him any new evacuees who are transferred to Oklahoma will be
housed at Camp Gruber, a facility near Muskogee that is caring for approximately 650 Hurricane
Katrina victims. Because only small numbers are expected, authorities believed it would be
better to provide care at one central location rather than open up a second major shelter. More
article: "Falls Creek Stood Down." Follow link title Interested in Volunteering at Falls Creek?
from this news site www.kfor.com...
This is very curious. Everybody was so excited when the announcement was made that Falls
Creek would be used. A previous article on the news site: More hurricane evacuees expected at
Falls Creek Sep 5, 2005, www.kfor.com...
More evacuees from Hurricane Katrina are expected to arrive in Oklahoma. Falls Creek, located
near Davis, is expected to receive up to 3,000 evacuees sometime. They'll be arriving
throughout the day."
Val provided photographs of some of the preparations for these people.
The BaptistMessanger.com site (follow the link from the kfor site so you know that the site is
not a "game" site) states in its article "Plan to use Falls Creek to welcome ‘guests’ swiftly put
into motion" that the guests were supposed to arrive Labor Day, September 5th.
From the informative interview with Baptist General Convention of Oklahoma Executive Director-
Treasurer Anthony Jordan on the site, it is obvious this was a well-developed plan to greet and
meet the Katrina evacuees as guests for the long haul. They were 1,800 volutneers strong and

"5,000 buckets of blessings care packages were prepared by hand, and more 3,278 beds were
made in less than 24 hours."
"Messenger: What was the plan to accomplish feeding 3,000 guests and volunteers at Falls
Creek?
Jordan: Porter quickly called in disaster relief feeding trailers from Bryan and LeFlore
associations and crews from those two areas, plus Sans Bois Association, to set up cooking/
feeding operations. They had a well-organized, smoothly-running kitchen up and going by mid-
day on Labor Day, and were ready to feed more than 5,000 people a day."
Messenger: What was your reaction when the decision was made to trim the volunteers to a
skeleton crew on Tuesday and send most of them home in hopes of a call-back?
Jordan: We were disappointed, of course, because we were eagerly anticipating loving on our
guests.
Messenger: Once the final decision to stand down came, a fully-prepared camp had to be
“dismantled.” What’s going to happen to all of the supplies brought in?
Jordan: Oklahoma Baptists can rest assured that every item made ready to benefit our guests
will be used. About 1,000 of the buckets of blessings already have been sent to Camp Gruber,
where other evacuees are housed. The rest of the buckets will be sent to Belle Chasse, La., just
outside New Orleans, where our disaster relief crews are now in operation.
All other items—bed linens, medical supplies, food items and clothing, etc.—will be either sent
to hurricane victims at Camp Gruber or in Louisiana, Mississippi or Alabama or placed in a
central warehouse set up by Volunteer Organizations Active in Disasters (VOAD) in Oklahoma
City. Many of our churches across the state are hosting evacuees. Those churches will be able to
contact that warehouse soon to get items to benefit those families they are helping. I assure
you, nothing will go to waste."
Now I'm surely in lot's of company wondering, why was the Falls Creek effort ordered to stand-
down (isn't that an odd choice of words) when the Baptist Builders were incredible and Gov.
Brad Henry even contacted Baptist General Convention of Oklahoma Executive Director-
Treasurer Anthony Jordan and asked if the offer was genuine? Why was this canned September
13 which would've been several days after the Val inquisitive visit?
copyright & usage

The Baptist Messenger quotes you reference go in-line with the statements made by Jordan at
the public announcement by Gov. Henry about "standing down" Falls Creek as a location for
evacuees. I can't help but notice that Jordan continued the "we want to love these people"
statement many, many days after it is established (and it IS established) that no one but the
400 some odd "hosts" (and most likely Jordan and the SBC top brass) would be there to
"welcome" them.
copyright & usage
menes posted on 20-9-2005 @ 08:22 PM
FEMA conflicting signals
Letter from the Governor of Oklahoma

Tuesday, 20 September 2005
September 12, 2005
Dear Friends:
On behalf of the great State of Oklahoma, I want to offer my deepest, heartfelt thanks to the
Baptist General Convention of Oklahoma, all its member churches and Oklahoma Baptists
everywhere for your recent mobilization to help the victims of Hurricane Katrina.
We Oklahomans are a special people: Devout, compassionate, generous and dedicated to

improving the lives of those in need. In the midst of horrific devastation along the Gulf Coast,
the Baptist General Convention of Oklahoma immediately sprang into action, launching a relief
effort in the storm-battered region and offering the use of Falls Creek for displaced hurricane
victims.
I am so very proud of -- and thankful for -- Oklahoma’s Baptist community and the urgency
with which it acted to help and minister to hurricane victims who had lost everything in this
nearly incomprehensible tragedy. While the conflicting signals from FEMA over the past two
weeks regarding the use of Falls Creek were surely frustrating, your commitment and
compassion did not waver.
Through this challenging time, you have worked to make a real and lasting difference in the
lives of hurricane victims. Your good works reflect the decency of Oklahoma and are a
testament to the deep and abiding love of Christ.
God bless all,
Brad Henry
Governor
Available on www.bgco.org site.
This is for informational purposes. My opinion is being formulated as I discover the details of
this situation that changed within a span of some mere 7 days, going from FEMA's ok let the
evacuees go to Falls Creek to FEMA's no the evacuees can't go there.
copyright & usage
Kathartic_Oni posted on 21-9-2005 @ 01:26 AM
Hi all
I don't often post, but I feel it's very warranted in this case. First Val you rock!!! In these times
it's nice to see someone who, through their actions, embodies the finer attributes of the human
race...WELL DONE!!!
Secondly, as much as we all, I think, wanted answers to the broader question raised by Val and
the rest of the intrepid ATS crew, we shouldn't be disappointed that now we know answers
won't be coming, because whatever was being planned for that place did not take place because
of this exposure and that is to be commended.
copyright & usage

Originally posted by menes

Henry and state emergency management officials told him any new evacuees who are
transferred to Oklahoma will be housed at Camp Gruber, a facility near Muskogee that is caring
for approximately 650 Hurricane Katrina victims.
...............
Jordan: Oklahoma Baptists can rest assured that every item made ready to benefit our guests
will be used. About 1,000 of the buckets of blessings already have been sent to Camp Gruber,
where other evacuees are housed.
so, are all the 'guests' of camp gruber to be treated as children or are they deliberately trying to
start a riot ??
copyright & usage
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The RUSSIA-FEMA CONNECTION.(SIGNED Memorandum of understanding.)
THERE IS A REASON OUR FEMA PEOPLE SEEM TO BE ACTING LIKE RUSSIAN "AUTHORITIES",
treating Americans like they were under communist rule. LOOK WHO OUR FEMA MANAGERS
ARE TAKING THEIR LESSONS FROM!
THIS IS NOT AN "NEWS ARTICLE", IT IS THE ACTUAL AGREEMENT.

www.fema.gov...
Home » Library » United States-Russian Federation Cooperation
Search FEMA
» Advanced Search
Library
• FEMA Information
• Preparation & Prevention
• Disasters & Emergencies
• Response & Recovery
• Cerro Grande
Library - Virtual Library & Electronic Reading Room
United States-Russian Federation Cooperation on Natural and Technological Disaster Prevention

and Response
A Status Report
Prepared by the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) and the Ministry of Civil
Defense, Emergencies, and the Elimination of the Consequences of Natural Disasters (EMERCOM
of Russia)
September 1997
Background
Saving lives and protecting property from the effects of natural and technological disasters is a
critical mission shared by FEMA and EMERCOM. Given the outstanding search and rescue
expertise and extensive disaster management capabilities possessed by both Agencies, we are
embarking on building a partnership in emergency preparedness and disaster management.
The signing of the Memorandum of Understanding on Cooperation in Natural and Technological

Emergency Prevention and Response on July 16, 1996, heralded a new era of cooperation in
building this partnership. In October 1996, FEMA and EMERCOM decided to focus partnership
efforts on: region to region collaboration; exchange of training courses, exercise observers/
participants and scientific and technical information; and coordination of assistance in complex
humanitarian emergencies.
www.fema.gov...
__________________
Mod Edit: Trimmed quoted material and placed in quote box
copyright & usage
kyateLaBoca posted on 24-9-2005 @ 09:51 PM
Never mind...sorry
[edit on 24-9-2005 by kyateLaBoca]
copyright & usage
billybob posted on 25-9-2005 @ 02:34 AM

Originally posted by Kathartic_Oni

I don't often post, but I feel it's very warranted in this case. First Val you rock!!! In these times
it's nice to see someone who, through their actions, embodies the finer attributes of the human
race...WELL DONE!!!
very well put. i didn't vote you for way above, val, because it seems petty and insignifigant. i'm
thinking nobel peace prize, purple heart, and humanitarian culture jamming awards(might have
to start that guild up, yet). you(val and family) were totally the right person(group) to be in the
wrong(right) place at the wrong(right) time. pretty much blindsided these pale horse riders.
Secondly, as much as we all, I think, wanted answers to the broader question raised by Val and
the rest of the intrepid ATS crew, we shouldn't be disappointed that now we know answers won't
be coming, because whatever was being planned for that place did not take place because of this
exposure and that is to be commended.
damn straight. it might be unwise to overlook that the robot 'we' are engaged with is a quick
study.
i don't know, but i've been told......
left, right, left, right...
copyright & usage
oztrogoth posted on 26-9-2005 @ 09:02 PM

fema detainment
valhal,
would you be willing to talk about what happened on my radio show out of north tampa? if so, e-
mail me at [contact made - personal info removed]and check out my website at vyzygoth.com.
you may retain your anonymity.
God bless you and yours . . .
copyright & usage
therainmaker posted on 28-9-2005 @ 04:27 AM
I promised an update to my earlier post, so here it is.
I hesitated to reply until I thought I had a better grasp of the mentality of these camps, or at
least the one I have been to at Camp Edwards, Massachusetts.
I never actually pulled guard duty at the "camp" itself (actually more like a village utilizing
modern barracks that are usually occupied by visiting units for training), but I have by it several
times, and know one person who is doing site security there.
Frankly I don't know what to think, I'd say there is nothig sinister going on, overtly at least. The
people there are allowed a relatively high degree of freedom and are generally not restricted
much as far as travel and contact with the outside world goes. The children attend the local
(town of Bourne I believe) public schools, and you see adults and children moving about that
part of the base with no barbed wire fences or intimidating security measures. I don't know how
or if anyone goes off base for recreational purposes.
The only problems so far have been just a couple minor altercations among the displaced
persons. There was indeed a short medical check-up quarantine, if you will, but it only lasted
about a week, not five months. During that time civilian-looking medical personnel (Red Cross?
FEMA?) were the only ones in contact with the new arrivals.
There is another, somewhat odd aspect to it. First of all understand that within the US Army
(including Reserve and NG components), Military Police personnel are in short supply in CONUS,
thus the new Force Protection label, which can include people from all kinds of backgrounds
(Engineers and tracked vehicle mechanics among those I have spoken to) pulling security
duties. The gate guards and patrols are overworked as it is on this post, so it is pretty honest to
admit that the resources don't readily exist to assign a unit to "guard" the displaced persons.
But those FP personnel who are supposed to "keep an eye on" the displaced persons are told to
give them a wide berth, and the face-to-face interaction of military and civilian personnel is
reserved only as a last measure for law enforcement or other emergencies. I believe it is the
Red Cross who are the people in constant contact with the displaced population. The rationale
behind this, from what I hear, is to make the people feel less like prisoners and more like just a
bunch of folks being helped out by the Commonwealth of Massachusetts.
The soldiers on base, however, are still leery of the new arrivals, and look upon them still as a
potential danger of some kind, more of a local crime problem than anything else. They are not
the ragtag bunch of wild looters that was feared when the announcement was first made that
they'd be coming.
This is all I could piece together from what I observed and what my friend told me. Make of it
what you may.
copyright & usage
resistance posted on 28-9-2005 @ 05:45 PM
Thank God for Val's report.
What should we do about all of this? Should we vociferously complain to Congress about what's
happened to the Katrina victims? People should not have been forcibly removed from their
homes, taken away on planes to who knows where. Their registered guns should not have been
confiscated. It's an outrage.
Is it naive to think that the churches could and should be handling the rebuilding and the help
and rescue of disaster victims? Who says we have to have a FEMA to do the things FEMA is
allowed to do?
And why do we need a Homeland Security at all? What are they doing other than putting up big
signs on the highways and expressways with flashing lights and blinking letters saying "Report
Suspicious Activity to (phone number)" This is ridiculous. What are we supposed to do, see if
people are wearing muslim headgear while they're driving their cars and get on our cellphones
and call? How is this ridiculous agency able to carry on with their nonsense, preventing people
from receiving food and clothes because it might be contaminated or whatever?
The way things stand now, if your state is declared a disaster area, FEMA has the right to come
in and march everybody to wherever they say to go. This ought not to be so. Time to start
hollering IMO or next time there's a disaster, it may be us eating pop tarts in a FEMA camp.
Has anyone heard of anything that Congress is doing about this?
copyright & usage
I just wanted to let you guys know that I'm going to be visiting with member oztrogoth in the
first hour of his talk program out of Florida on this Friday night at 11:00 p.m. ET.
Here is oztrogoth's website: www.vyzygoth.com...
Here is the kgrn radio network website: www.kgrn.info...
and here is the livestream page: www.kgrn.info...
copyright & usage
AdamJ posted on 28-9-2005 @ 06:17 PM
Originally posted by ainitfunny

THERE IS A REASON OUR FEMA PEOPLE SEEM TO BE ACTING LIKE RUSSIAN "AUTHORITIES",
treating Americans like they were under communist rule. LOOK WHO OUR FEMA MANAGERS ARE
TAKING THEIR LESSONS FROM!
very interesting indeed! thankyou for that
valhal, do you know or can you find out wether it will be archived so i can download it l8r, or
will i have to listen live.

[edit on 28-9-2005 by AdamJ]
copyright & usage
Originally posted by AdamJ
valhal, do you know or can you find out wether it will be archived so i can download it l8r, or will
i have to listen live.
I think this is where he archives past shows:
vyzygoth.com...
copyright & usage

This link was passed to me with the request that I post this.
The following video link is on Oklahoma's kfor.com. The partial transcript below is where the
woman is describing being in a particular shelter prior to coming to Oklahoma.
newsok.com.../main
partial transcript:
Taylor and her husband were shuttled from shelter to shelter. "It was actually horrible.
Because they had dead bodies and everything else laying in the walkways and stuff. And

they put us in like a dormitory cell. We couldn't leave and half the time we didn't
have no water..."
Vall,
I'm finally gotten back to this thread. If you can get back to this article, could you post the
article or U2U me the article. I don't like news sites that require you to register, let alone ask
for your entire personal history just to read one artlice. It said all I needed was a valid
name, e-mail, and password. Well it wouldn't take that. I didn't feel comfortable giving out any
other information just so they can use it for marketing purposes.
Thanks
copyright & usage
I can't copy the video or I would save it on to my server and link to it. This is the only text in
the article accompanying the video.
"Some lifelong Louisiana residents who lost everything in the storm have found something more
valuable than money.
Tami Marler when to Camp Gruber to learn more about the couple's precious gift."
The text you quoted was me transcribing a portion of the woman speaking on the video. That's
a verbatim transciption.
copyright & usage

Originally posted by Mystery_Lady
I don't like news sites that require you to register, let alone ask for your entire personal history
just to read one artlice. It said all I needed was a valid name, e-mail, and password. Well it
wouldn't take that. I didn't feel comfortable giving out any other information just so they can use
it for marketing purposes.
Mystery_Lady
I have found this website to be really very good to bypass obligatory free registration:
www.bugmenot.com...
I agree with you in not liking to register for marketing purposes just to read one article.
copyright & usage
Count posted on 29-9-2005 @ 06:50 AM
Yah, bugmenot works.
But here's the video if someone wants to keep it as a reference. It's about 14MB.
Packed with DivX, so you need the DivX codec to watch it.
copyright & usage
oztrogoth posted on 29-9-2005 @ 09:49 AM

Originally posted by ainitfunny

THERE IS A REASON OUR FEMA PEOPLE SEEM TO BE ACTING LIKE RUSSIAN

"AUTHORITIES", treating Americans like they were under communist rule. LOOK WHO
OUR FEMA MANAGERS ARE TAKING THEIR LESSONS FROM!
valhal, do you know or can you find out wether it will be archived so i can download it l8r, or will
i have to listen live.
copyright & usage
oztrogoth posted on 29-9-2005 @ 09:51 AM
The interview with Val will be put up in the audio archive at vyzygoth.com, and radio4all.net on
Tuesday, October 4th.
copyright & usage


I can't copy the video or I would save it on to my server and link to it. This is the only text in the
article accompanying the video.
"Some lifelong Louisiana residents who lost everything in the storm have found
something more valuable than money.
Tami Marler when to Camp Gruber to learn more about the couple's precious gift."
The text you quoted was me transcribing a portion of the woman speaking on the video. That's a
verbatim transciption.
Thanks Vall, I thought it was an actual article and not a viedo. I son't usually watch viedo clips
on the net. I'm sure you transcribed the best part of the whole clip.
copyright & usage
Kitsunegari posted on 30-9-2005 @ 05:07 PM
can someone please u2u me when val's interview is put up? im not sure how easily i will be able
to get to it, and i just want to know exactlywhen to start trying.
excellent thread val! very interesting. thanks for sharing this with us!
--Kit
copyright & usage

oztrogoth has passed another radio station link that will have a livestream feed in case anybody
is interested.
www.pascoradio.org Click on the "Grassy Knoll" show link...
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Kitsunegari posted on 30-9-2005 @ 07:52 PM
the livestream isnt working on my comp. my computer is being really cranky today.
--Kit.
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bump.
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<< 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 >>

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craig732 posted on 4-10-2005 @ 08:58 PM

No one is being forced to go to these camps. These camps are for people who have not
prepared ahead of time for disasterous times like these and have nowhere to go. These camps
are for people who have chosen to be poor by having children they can't afford and working
crappy, low-paying jobs. Oh, and probably some nice people too. Being poor and having
nowhere else to go is a choice they made for themselves... ANYONE can work hard and do well.
There are A LOT of people who lost everything in this disaster but that have saved their money
and can now take care of themselves and not wait for a government handout.
Regarding FEMA not accepting material donations: I don't know if any of you have experience in
logistics, but do you realize the sheer volume of work to provide food, clothing and shelter for
5000 people? For FIVE months?! Who do you expect to sort through and distribute all this stuff?
All of the other cabins did not have the volunteers yours had to do all that. And being these
people are depending on the goverment to provide for them, which is socialism, then the
socialist idea of everyone getting the same stuff must apply.
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Originally posted by craig732

No one is being forced to go to these camps. These camps are for people who have not prepared
ahead of time for disasterous times like these and have nowhere to go. These camps are for
people who have chosen to be poor by having children they can't afford and working crappy, low-
paying jobs. Oh, and probably some nice people too. Being poor and having nowhere else to go
is a choice they made for themselves... ANYONE can work hard and do well. There are A LOT of
people who lost everything in this disaster but that have saved their money and can now take
care of themselves and not wait for a government handout.
Regarding FEMA not accepting material donations: I don't know if any of you have experience in
logistics, but do you realize the sheer volume of work to provide food, clothing and shelter for
5000 people? For FIVE months?! Who do you expect to sort through and distribute all this stuff?
All of the other cabins did not have the volunteers yours had to do all that. And being these
people are depending on the goverment to provide for them, which is socialism, then the socialist
idea of everyone getting the same stuff must apply.

Disgusting, moronic, ignorant drivel. Every single syllable of it.
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Kathartic_Oni posted on 5-10-2005 @ 01:46 AM
I second and THIRD that Val, WHO is this guy?....and why isn't he working for FEMA?
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Originally posted by Kathartic_Oni

I second and THIRD that Val, WHO is this guy?....and why isn't he working for FEMA?
I don't know who he is...but who said he's not?!
LOL
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I don't work for FEMA. And I respect your opinions of my opinions. So ignore all of my
"Disgusting, moronic, ignorant drivel" except for the first sentance. Because that is not opinion,
it is fact.
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Telayliean posted on 6-10-2005 @ 12:39 PM
Well of course they are not being forced. They have NO CHOICE as to where they are being
taken. They are put on a bus - families have been split up and have not been told as to where
their other family members are - those being put on the bus are not even being told where they
are going. Don't you find that just the least bit odd? As I said before, they do not have a choice
- someone else decides where to "deposit" these people - and what they will or will not do with
them while they are at their various locations. Will anyone know what happend to them?
Probably not. How would we learn their fate? The camp has become a fortress. How convenient
that it's in the middle of nowhere, so to speak, away from the public, away from VIEW of the
road - basically isolated. Even the poorest of the poor - with children or not (and by the way,
what difference does THAT make in the end?) - do not deserve to be treated in such a manner. I
could not help but think of the German Concentration Camps when I saw how the beds were
laid out in bunks of four...even those to whom I've spoken about Val's find and what she and
her family experienced while trying to HELP these people thought it was too weird and that it
didn't make any sense. Why the armed guards? Why the secrecy? In five months, these people,
who have been through so much already, will have been subjected to complete detatchment
and isolation from society, let alone who knows what else, will not even be thought of, because,
as it has been so blatantly pointed out - these people are poor. It only takes a turn of fate to
exchange places with these people - we could be discussing you, your family or my family.
Shame on you for thinking that just because they are poor that they are any less deserving than
you or I.
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Okay, here's is the page with the audio archives:
vyzygoth.com...
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I'm away from this thread for a few moons and come back to find a new challenger of it?
Interesting.....
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scorpionxx posted on 12-10-2005 @ 12:17 AM
although I got little damage from katrina (just lost 2 groecery bags full fo comics over at my
grandma's)anyway my uncle has it pretty bad right now.
See he lives in mississippi and stayed for katrina, he said when it started to flood he had to sim
in the flood water to save the lady next door. then after that for about 2 days he had to float on
someone spa or hottub(whatever those things are called) in the water because it was all way up
to the roof of his house. now after the water went down his house was demmed unfit to live in
and fema gave him a little tent to sleep in till they could get him a trailer. that was over a
month ago. for about 1 month he has been sleeping in a small tent on his neighbors proch
unable to leave cause someoen has to be there in case fema comes around. so for over a month
he's been sleeping on someoen elses porch with the same shoes and socks he had when he
swam in the flood water. fema gave him a bike for transportaion. he's about ready to take a ball
bat the police gave him for protection and beat the heck outta the fema people.now I went to
mississippi to see what kinda damage was done. lets just say the stuff shown on tv doesn't do
justice to the destrucion katrina left. now personally I don't think fema was ever meant to be
activated, I belive it was created just to give someone's buddy a job. not sure if this is off topic
or not but I felt like sharing that with yall.
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sarephim101 posted on 13-10-2005 @ 11:54 PM
Hi Valhall,
Thank you for your very informative report, God works in mysterious ways, I just wanted to tell
you I ended up on Radio Intercontinental {the radio station Franco built} last week, 3 times for
2 hrs a time, so I decided to take the opportunity to tell Europe about 'the concentration camps'
and fema situation...
and got called a schitzophrenic by one woman caller who demanded to know how I could be
allowed to say such things in the studio Franco built and why if it were true hadn't it been on
the news...sigh...anyway the call ended well with her agreeing to investigate the things I had
said for herself before disbelieving me...
I have 2 radio shows and a tv show lined up for 5 months time...I pray I will be telling them
that I'm a schitzo and that fema turned out to be nice people that were just helping those 'poor'
and probably coloured people of New Orleans...if it turns out I'm not a schitzo and those people
aren't back in nice happy lives....then I'll make sure the whole bloody world hears about it...
Love sarephim101
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SniperDoc posted on 14-10-2005 @ 03:31 PM
Gvmnt Detainment Camp Logic
I'm not gonna try to pass this off as truth, I just want to try and explain what I feel is the
"gvmnt think" here.
The gvmnt thinks that all of these people on public assistance are degraded and completely
uneducated, i.e., "animals". And what are you supposed to do with unpredictable animals? Why,
you put them in a cage, of course and then maintain tight control.
I'm quite sure the current powers that be feel this way about most Americans, but especially so
about anyone on public assistance.
I can tell you as an experienced Libertarian, that the bigger gvmnt gets, the more it views its
public as "cattle" that need to be "herded".
The fact that they have gotten all of these folks together in several large camps, makes me
wonder if there isn't some huge "public works project" coming up soon. Remember FDR's "New
Deal" and the "Works Progress Administration"?
A socialist project if there ever was one. Regardless, they figured they were better off giving
these people "busy work", rather than allowing them to "run free and cause trouble".
Read for yourself and see if the past looks plausible in present time:
(From Wikipedia)
"The Works Progress Administration (later Works Projects Administration, abbreviated WPA),
was created on May 6, 1935 with the signing of Executive Order 7034. It was the largest and
most comprehensive New Deal agency. Headed by Harry L. Hopkins, it was a "make work"
program that provided jobs and income to the unemployed during the Great Depression. WPA
projects primarily employed blue-collar workers in construction projects across the nation, but
also employed white-collar workers and artists on smaller-scale projects, and even ran a circus.
Some who experienced work in the WPA have been known to refer to it as "We Poke Along",
"We Piddle Along" or "We Putter Around". This is a reference to WPA projects that sometimes
slowed to a crawl, because workers often had no knowledge of when the next job was coming."
I would expect Bush to make the announcement of the creation of the "New WPA" shortly after
Thanksgiving or Christmas, hence, the "five month thing".
See what I mean? I think this is where this whole thing is going.
Don't you?
Not too sure whether it will be a good thing or a bad thing, but is there something else you can
do with 100,000 displaced people running around?
Then again, can ol' "Dubya" do anything right?
SniperDoc
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SniperDoc posted on 14-10-2005 @ 05:53 PM

"It's amazing how you took so many photos and they didn't ask why you were taking them? Of
their cars, their personel, etc... "
I'll bet either:

A. They didn't know she was taking pictures or
B. Didn't want to cause a stink and put people on alert.
"I have a single question though, Why 5 months? It kind of seems too long to let such
population stay there for a while ... I know they may have lost their jobs, houses, infact some of
their loved ones ... but 5 months?"
Sounds like a pre-determined appropriate time period for a "boot camp indoctrination" period. -
SniperDoc
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I appreciate everyone's comments to my reply on this post, however, I still stand by my

statement: No one is being forced to go to these camps. If they had just left town when they
were told there was a hurricane coming, followed their mayor's and governor's evacuation
order, and evacuated themselves like HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of other people did, they
would not have to be put on a bus and shipped to the middle of nowhere at taxpayer's expense.
These were the people that were on the news days before the hurricane saying, "I've been living
here 50 years and I ain't never left before and I ain't leaving now." Well they should heve left
on their own terms. Yes, it was VERY difficult to evacuate... hours and hours of traffic jams,
packed buses, packed trains, and overbooked flights, but if the VAST MAJORiTY of the
population got out, then ALMOST EVERYONE could have gotten out (with a few exceptions, like
the senior citizens left to die in the retirement home by the ruthless owners of the facility). And
no, this could not be me or my family in this situation, because I do not count on the
government to provide me with anything in an emergency and have prepared well for this type
of disaster.
I would love for someone to go back to the camp now, well over a month later, and report on
the conditions there. I would bet that they find all the repressive tactics that have been put in
place by the government and police have kept the people in this community safe, secure, and
possibly better off then they were before the hurricane. Many of these people were so poor that

they did not even have 2 meals a day before, so I am sure they greatly appreciate the 2 meals
a day they are getting now. Many of these people lived in neighborhoods where drugs and crime
were rampant, so I would think they might appreciate the protection they are being given by
the police that are keeping the peace there. Many of these people could not afford washing
machines and dryers, and could not even afford to go to the laundrymat, so I think they might
appreciate the free laundry service they are being provided with.
PS: Please excuse any spelling errors... I am having computer trouble and I cannot open my
program that has "spell check".
[edit on 15-10-2005 by craig732]
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If they had just left town when they were told there was a hurricane coming, followed their
mayor's and governor's evacuation order, and evacuated themselves like HUNDREDS OF
THOUSANDS of other people did, they would not have to be put on a bus and shipped to the
middle of nowhere at taxpayer's expense.
I'm sorry, but this is where you are tremendously missing the point. The people who are
currently homeless and in the "system" due to Katrina are made of people who DID leave before
the storm and people who DIDN'T leave before the storm. If you left before the storm and you
have nothing to go back to you are as much an "evacuee" as anybody else.
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Wow Valhall, we agree on something! You are 100% correct in your statement that a lot of
these people are people who have been left homeless by this disaster, and I do apologize for not
clearly stating in my posts that I understand that.
In addition to what I already stated, one of the points that I am tying to make is that people
need to be prepared for this type of disaster and not count on the government for any
assistance whatsoever when something like this happens, lest they will end up getting whatever
the government is offering, such as housing in these camps and 2 crappy meals a day. If they
have not prepared themselves then no one should be complaining about what they are getting
at the taxpayer's expense.
I don't know much about the insurance industry in Louisana or any other state down there, but I
know that in my area my renter's insurance policy specificaly covers hurricanes, (although with
a hefty 15% deductible.) I live in a flood zone directly on the Atlantic coast, in a major
metropolitan city, one block from the beach, so I would imagine that if I can get this type of
insurance for my apartment, for the rather inexpensive cost of $160 per year, then something
similar must be available down there. Although my policy covers lodging expenses for up to 6
months, I still have made arrangments with friends and relatives for accodations in the event
there is no lodging available or if my displacement lasts more than 6 months. I am not a rich
guy; I consider myself to have a lower-middle class income. So if I can save and plan for an
event like this, why can't everyone? If the MAJORITY of the people that were in the effected
area can self-evacuate and not need to be in these camps because they have prepared
themselves financially ahead of time, then why can't everone?
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KS Coyotee posted on 18-10-2005 @ 08:23 PM

camps - real or otherwise
Valhall,
I have watched this thread develop from the beginning and finally decided to join so that I could
post comments to what has been previously stated.
1) If you were to take a camp such as this in a honest no bs situation [I don't think you will find
it because with our govt it doesn't exist] then yes, they were setting up to care for katrina
victims.
2) However, given what was reported and all of the uneasiness of the fema people you
stumbled or was God- led to this camp for the purpose of exposing it.
3) My opinion - this camp was not set up for katrina victims - that was the pretext to being able
to use it. It was being set up for blue list, or yellow, or green list people the NWO were
preparing to round up. I didn't mention red list because they are to be terminated.
4) I reviewed the OK gov/fema public meeting to state that the camp was not going to be used.
They got caught and had to make plans to change.
5) The OK emergency management director [whoever] likewise was probably ordered to come
on to this forum and justify what they were doing [damage control].
6) Setting up camps sounded like a good thing, however, add in isolating family's, not allowing
to leave, have some form of ID and guards - adds up to something else.
7) Valhall, just curious, was there any fencing [ i.e., 5' chain link fence with 3 strand barbed
wire on top facing inward observed anywhere?
8) Finally, people you have got to wake up and see the whole puzzle that is quickly coming
together [except this isn't a game and they play for keeps]. Ask yourself how this fits with
foreign troops in US, recent deployments of large groups of US troops in CONUS and the large
deployment of russian troops [or should I say movement out of russia].
9) I maybe wrong [and I hope I am], however, there is another hurricane heading CONUS and I
don't think we will make it to December 31.
Thanks for a great post to join ats
KS Coyotee

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fema camps
FYI,
forgot to mention - check FEMA website, they don't do camps [they actually state that], they
leave that to other organizations - so what were they doing.
Also, the red cross states that they are not reimbursed for what they do, however, check their
liberty fund report after 911 and it specifically shows reimbursements of approximately
$300,000 + a request or an additional $700,000.
FYI, when looking for intel on the internet, don't stop looking after the first several pages. The
real materials are hidden out there in the later pages.
KS Coyotee
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billybob posted on 19-10-2005 @ 03:34 AM
You have voted KS Coyotee for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have two more votes this
month.
good first post, lol.
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Lex_Icon posted on 20-10-2005 @ 03:24 PM
FEMA in a nutshell. I think that this site wraps it up pretty good.
www.sonic.net...
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for those who won't the link, here's a snippet....
Here are just a few Executive Orders associated with FEMA that would suspend the Constitution
and the Bill of Rights. These Executive Orders have been on record for nearly 30 years and could
be enacted by the stroke of a Presidential pen:
EXECUTIVE ORDER 10990 allows the government to take over all modes of transportation and
control of highways and seaports.
EXECUTIVE ORDER 10995 allows the government to seize and control the communication
media.
EXECUTIVE ORDER 10997 allows the government to take over all electrical power, gas,
petroleum, fuels and minerals.
EXECUTIVE ORDER 10998 allows the government to take over all food resources and farms.
EXECUTIVE ORDER 11000 allows the government to mobilize civilians into work brigades under
government supervision.
EXECUTIVE ORDER 11001 allows the government to take over all health, education and welfare
functions.
EXECUTIVE ORDER 11002 designates the Postmaster General to operate a national registration
of all persons.
EXECUTIVE ORDER 11003 allows the government to take over all airports and aircraft, including
commercial aircraft.
EXECUTIVE ORDER 11004 allows the Housing and Finance Authority to relocate communities,
build new housing with public funds, designate areas to be abandoned, and establish new
locations for populations.
EXECUTIVE ORDER 11005 allows the government to take over railroads, inland waterways and
public storage facilities.
EXECUTIVE ORDER 11051 specifies the responsibility of the Office of Emergency Planning and
gives authorization to put all Executive Orders into effect in times of increased international
tensions and economic or financial crisis.
EXECUTIVE ORDER 11310 grants authority to the Department of Justice to enforce the plans
set out in Executive Orders, to institute industrial support, to establish judicial and legislative
liaison, to control all aliens, to operate penal and correctional institutions, and to advise and
assist the President.
EXECUTIVE ORDER 11049 assigns emergency preparedness function to federal departments

and agencies, consolidating 21 operative Executive Orders issued over a fifteen year period.
EXECUTIVE ORDER 11921 allows the Federal Emergency Preparedness Agency to develop plans
to establish control over the mechanisms of production and distribution, of energy sources,
wages, salaries, credit and the flow of money in U.S. financial institution in any undefined
national emergency. It also provides that when a state of emergency is declared by the
President, Congress cannot review the action for six months.
where's your demockracy, now!!???
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<< 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 >>


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<< 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 >>
Silk posted on 21-10-2005 @ 01:06 PM

Interesting
but the time line seems a little old ...
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Are u for real??? posted on 21-10-2005 @ 10:47 PM

I'm with you in this!
Sounds like they have services provided for people and local emergency services if needed.
Looks like they are providing for people that have nothing and giving them something
Where is the bad part? Is it in providing security for people that have no protection?
hmmm?
Val - I have to ask you -

Are u for real????
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Yeah. I'm for real. But your a sockpuppet. And lest anyone gets misled by your antics...here is
is your member record with the six month gap of no activity.
Are u for real???
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Originally posted by Valhall your a sockpuppet.
Hey Valhall, what is with all the name calling? This guy is a sockpupet and I am moronic.... I am
sure I could find more examples if I read back through this thread. What is the deal with that?
When someone disagrees with you why not debate them by taking their points one by one and
refuting them instead of calling them names?
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Thomas Crowne posted on 22-10-2005 @ 11:47 PM
Craig, a sock puppet is not a derogatory term; it is a second account used by some to say
something they'd rather not have their usual account be tagged with.
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Thank you for straightening me out on that. Mr. Crowne; but I was aware of what the
terminology meant. My opinion is that in the context it was used it sounded derogatory. My
question still stands: Valhall, when someone disagrees with you, why attack them? Why not
refute their points one by one instead of the name calling and personal attack?
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My question still stands: Valhall, when someone disagrees with you, why attack them? Why not
refute their points one by one instead of the name calling and personal attack?
What part of your incompassionate, stereotpying post do you want me to address?
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craig732 posted on 25-10-2005 @ 01:40 AM
Well, you could start with your views on what you find "incompassionate" {sic} and
"stereotpying" {sic}, specifically, and why you feel that way. That way it will be a discussion
that will stress your points and perhaps allow me and others to see that I may be wrong (or
correct). Then I could state why I feel the way I do and perhaps you and others could possibly
agree, or disagree even more, with my point of view. I may be much less experienced and
much less active on this board compared to you, but that is what my understanding of what a
discussion is. Isn't this a "discussion" board? Aren't people allowed to post their thoughts and
opinions here without being called names? I may even have been guilty of that myself when I
first started here, but even in my limited experience on this board I have learned that attacking
other people is wrong, that the idea of this board is to have discussions. I just thought that
someone with your experience on this board would see that they could possibly sway people to
their way of thinking by intelligently explaining themselves instead of being confrontational and
calling names.
And you still have not answered my question, although I do understand that you are under no
obligation to do so.
Also, if this forum is not the appropriate place to have this discussion please let me know and I
will cease and desist immediately and post this elsewhere.
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What I find incompassionate is your stated views that some how these people want to be
displaced, or are okay with living arenas or shelters. That there is something they personnally
did to "bring on the rain" so to speak. This appears - from the way you stated it - to come from
a stereotyping you have applied to these people because they are either black or low-income or
lesser educated or on assistance or all of the previous.
Now, I find it disgusting to view a group of people that way and to speak of any trial and/or
tribulation they've been through after this disaster in a diminutive way...and I guess because
you don't like some given factor about their lives (see list above). I voiced my opinion on what I
thought of those statements about these people.
I also saw your responses that followed in which you explained what your original post was
getting at. Those explanations have been duly noted. I have now also noted your comments
about my response to "Are u for real???". My question to you on that is rhetorical - why is
accusing that member's intent of not being on the level any more offensive to you than that
member doing the same to me?
If you have further questions you would like me to address concerning the topic of this thread,
I'll be glad to do so. Unless it's asking me if I'm for real, or whether I think the citizens of NO
deserved and/or welcomed the disaster.
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Very good, now I understand your point of view regarding my point of view, and I respect your
opinions about my opinions.
Originally posted by Valhallwhy is accusing that member's intent of not being on the level any
more offensive to you than that member doing the same to me?
Regarding this, I do feel that the post by "are you for real" is inappropriate (not offensive, and it
was not my intention to characterize your comments as offensive, just inappropriate in this
setting.) But this is your forum, not his or hers, so that is why I did not address his derogatory
and inappropriate comment. Buy I can if you like. Peace.
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Now, to get back on the topic (sorry for the detour).
Is there anybody in the area of where this camp is that could go there and report back on what
is happening currently,perhaps even interview somewho is staying there? Or anyone who is a
member of this congregation who could call their pastor for a report?
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What I find incompassionate is your stated views that some how these people want to be
displaced, or are okay with living arenas or shelters. That there is something they personnally
did to "bring on the rain" so to speak. This appears - from the way you stated it - to come from a
stereotyping you have applied to these people because they are either black or low-income or
lesser educated or on assistance or all of the previous.
Now, I find it disgusting to view a group of people that way and to speak of any trial and/or
tribulation they've been through after this disaster in a diminutive way...and I guess because
you don't like some given factor about their lives (see list above). I voiced my opinion on what I
thought of those statements about these people.
I also saw your responses that followed in which you explained what your original post was
getting at. Those explanations have been duly noted. I have now also noted your comments
about my response to "Are u for real???". My question to you on that is rhetorical - why is
accusing that member's intent of not being on the level any more offensive to you than that
member doing the same to me?
If you have further questions you would like me to address concerning the topic of this thread,
I'll be glad to do so. Unless it's asking me if I'm for real, or whether I think the citizens of NO
deserved and/or welcomed the disaster.
Get a grip Val!!!!
Ok, so they have an area secured and are not allowing some people to have more than
someone else, they have emergency services because there are none there, they are
accounting for the people because they are miles away from their homes and the people are
confused, frustrated, overwelmed, and are trying to contact family.
Then comes Val - the crusader!!! Dum, Da, Dum!!!! To save the day!
Val says - (I am making these words up) Fear not good citizens, I realize you are in a detention
camp and I will exploit your perils.
Wait a minute - Are there any citizens from LA. even there? Are the citizens unhappy to be
there? PLease lets get a comment from a citizen who is there or was there
Ok Val the crusader how would you have done it better? Exactly!!!!
How would you provided services, communications, accountablility, a way to give the people
hope and give the people a direction.
How would you have prevented rioting and lawlessness? How would you have saved these
people in EVERY facet like the government is doing?
I am a citizen of the US and a veteran and I am proud of my country. Yes, the US government
has made mistakes and yes they will make more. But in this instance, This instance of setting
up this secure location for these displaced and unseen citizens, I believe they did the right thing.
So let me ask you Val- have you made any mistakes in your life? C'mon, speak up!
Now to address the rest of your comments. Sockpuppet huh? Well I take that as a compliment
because you now expose me as the hand behind many good comments that come out and

THANK YOU!
If you meant that in a deragatory way, I hope you find a meaning in your life someday. You
obviously need some sort of professional help to realize that the government is not out to get
you and that there is good in this world other than your hand in your pocket.
So that leaves me to say - Are U for real???
[edit on 27-10-2005 by Are u for real???]
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Craig - reach behind you and check for a spine
Regarding this, I do feel that the post by "are you for real" is inappropriate
Craig - How is my post inappropriate?

I was blunting asking for what was/is the percieved bad in the scenario by Val. I did not see
anything bad so I need some sort of 'guidance', 'direction', or 'pointer' to what was happening
that was bad.
Dude, what do you consider inappropriate in my post?
Let me give you a rule of thumb - a person's perception is only 1/3 of the truth. Until you get
the information form all of the players how cna you make a rationale decision?
Do you folks base your decisions on one point of view?
How about collecting facts from several different sources then looking at the facts to see if
anything is similar or if anything doesn't mesh and then look for more facts based on the first
round of facts?
C'mon Craig dude. Your posts read like you are a very good thinker and you are not unrationale
person.
Craig, I know U are for real!

copyright & usage
I am too fat to reach my hand all the way behind my back, so I just had my girlfriend check for
my spine and it is still there; thank God... I was a little worried there for a moment that I would
be a spineless lump of jelly for the rest of my life!
The reason I felt your post was inappropriate was because of my personal beliefs. I personally
feel that comments like "are you nuts?" or "are you for real?" or "are you kidding, or what?" do
nothing to promote your side of the argument and are the equivalent of direct insults, such as
“you are nuts.”
I have always felt than when having a discussion, argument, debate, etc. you should not use
foul language, insults, or say things that do not specifically promote your side of the argument
or opinion, or refute the other person's side of the argument.
Other than that, I am in agreement with you. It would seem that the people on this thread have
no experience with managing extremely large groups of people, products, security, etc for
thousands of people. If they did they would realize the need for security and order. They also
have no concept that the government is so politically correct these days that they would never
give someone a Snickers bar or a Twinkie if they did not give one to someone else. Heck, if they
did they would probably get sued.
I still stand by my question, which no one has yet answered: How come hundreds of
thousands of people were able to self-evacuate, self-relocate, and not depend on the
government but these people could not or chose not to?
Also, who is going to follow-up on this camp, see what is going on there today, and report back?
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Craig - I am cool with you now, dude!
I agree with yout hat we need some followup on this.

Also did Val show any of the people in her pics?
Where are the citizens? The people demand citizens!!!
Craig - You are an honest dude! Rock on partner!
copyright & usage
Originally posted by Are u for real???

Craig - You are an honest dude! Rock on partner!
What citizens? What citizens do you want pictures of? Do you want pictures of citizens being
detained? Citizens detaining other citizens? Or citizens marching in protest?
Do you want 18th century citizens? 19th? 20th? or 21st?
Do you want black citizens? white ones? or a big pot-pouri of citizens?
Do you want the ones who only have served in the military? or maybe only the ones that have
served in the incompetent arms of government...like FEMA.
Do you want me to post pics of the citizens that are taken into "custody or detainment" by the
FBI, the DHS or the various state BIs?
Do you want me to post pics of citizens that have been deemed lesser by the catastrophe they
are suffering through? or the ones who aren't right simply because they don't look right to you?

Are you getting the picture cheese-cake? What pictures of citizens - EXACTLY - do you want?
And thanks for correcting me...there's no way you are a sock-puppet, you're too full of crap to
leave room for a hand.
copyright & usage
Once again, instead of answering a question clearly and concisely, Valhall responds with insults,
sarcasm, and now even foul language. Apparently her side of the issue has lost steam so now it
degrades into further mudslinging. I feel like I am in a political campaign!
copyright & usage
i think she was being kind.
a camp with tons of empty beds stood empty and heavily policed. this very thread may have
been a pretty major blow to the clandestine objectives of the totalitarian organisation known as
FEMA.
did you read the powers that FEMA has been granted EXCLUSIVELY through executive orders?
they're very 'unamerican'. anyway, they're in the thread, so you can go back and look.
FEMA is a subversive group 'legally' put into power by SHILLS(stunned humans intrinsically
lying lustfully, see?).
it needs to be taken off the books. it is a ridiculous assault on america.
'the pen is mightier than the sword'. especially when that pen pens law.
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billybob, you just drove my point home. You made clear and consise statements supporting
your views and detracting from other people's views without insulting anyone (except FEMA, but
I make exceptions for anyone who wants to insult that group of evildoers.)
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billybob, you just drove my point home. You made clear and consise statements supporting your
views and detracting from other people's views without insulting anyone (except FEMA, but I
make exceptions for anyone who wants to insult that group of evildoers.)
technical writing 101.

people actually get angry with me for putting too much meaning into too few words.
copyright & usage
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Once again, instead of answering a question clearly and concisely, Valhall responds with insults,
sarcasm, and now even foul language. Apparently her side of the issue has lost steam so now it
degrades into further mudslinging. I feel like I am in a political campaign!
I didn't respond with insults. I responded with passion. There's a difference.
Are u 4 real's last nonsensical post shows he hasn't even bothered to read the thread. Because
this thread makes clear that over the course of the next week after my pics at the camp were
taken there was a series of delays in the intended occupants arriving, and ending with the
Governor announcing the camp wouldn't be used.
So to ask me to provide pics of citizens (and I still don't know what citizens he wants pics of) in
this camp shows that he didn't even care to learn what took place. He simply wanted to cause
trouble.
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Originally posted by Are u for real???

What citizens? What citizens do you want pictures of? Do you want pictures of citizens being
detained? Citizens detaining other citizens? Or citizens marching in protest?

Do you want 18th century citizens? 19th? 20th? or 21st?
Do you want black citizens? white ones? or a big pot-pouri of citizens?
Do you want the ones who only have served in the military? or maybe only the ones that have
served in the incompetent arms of government...like FEMA.
Do you want me to post pics of the citizens that are taken into "custody or detainment" by the
FBI, the DHS or the various state BIs?
Do you want me to post pics of citizens that have been deemed lesser by the catastrophe they
are suffering through? or the ones who aren't right simply because they don't look right to you?
Are you getting the picture cheese-cake? What pictures of citizens - EXACTLY - do you want?
And thanks for correcting me...there's no way you are a sock-puppet, you're too full of crap to
leave room for a hand.
Val - the confused and cynical cheesecake lover
Val- Where do I start? I am asking for updated photos of "detainees" at this camp. I am asking
for interviews from detainees at this camp.
Ok now this is a big on Val - I am asking how you would have done things differently? How
would you provide a state of law, provided food, water, shelter, communications within the
facility, communications to their families outside of the facility, and provided these people with
information about how they are going back and what/how they can go back to something?
Oh another question you did not answer - Is have you or have noyu not made any
mistakes in your life?
Just the facts Val, Just the facts, PLEASE!!!!!! There is no need for name calling. Your
name calling seems to mean that you have a low self-esteem and that you find a
personal gain in belittling someone else. Sorry to see that you have this problem but self-
esteem can be helped by talking with a friend, a religious figure - like a pastor, or professional
help. It definitely sounds like you need some help, please seek it because I am sure that you
are a better person.
As far as the other people types you are listing, I think you forgot what the discussion is about.
Please stay on focus to what this thread is in regards to.
And yes, I do like cheesecake and I would be delighted to share some with you sometime.
As always Val I must ask you - Are u for real???
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I'm out of this thread
This thread has appearently took a serious negative turn. So I see no value to continue to be
bantered by opinions where there are no facts.
Good luck to all!
Val- I hope you get some help somewhere
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Relentless posted on 12-11-2005 @ 04:24 PM

Are U:
You are acting as if Val made claims she did not. Did you read the entire thread? It never got to
the point where detainees went to the camp (perhaps due to Val's report on this for all we
know).
Anyway - have ya got a clue? Let it go, for your own sake, or shall we just say au revoir?
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Val, I salute you. It remains as true as ever:
[B] "All it takes. for evil to triumph. is for good men to do nothing." -Edmund Burke [/B]
This evil plan did NOT succeed because YOU did something to stop it. Thank you.
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FEMA Camps
Valhall,
I don't think that anything that you state will change the minds [I'd say something else - but
then someone would cry flame] of these people who are in denial. Maybe [doubtful], if you had
been able to capture one of the fema people on the ground and coherse them into telling you
the whole plan would people believe this is happening.
I have seen this on so many boards - people just don't want to believe it could happen. It is
terrible to think that our gubermant would stoop to the level of the SS just as in WWII? They
wouldn't do that, would they??
A prominent Russian leader either in the late 1800 - early 1900's stated that at the opportune
time, they would take the US without firing a single shot. They would simply get americans to
busy in sports, porn, etc and we wouldn't see it coming until it was too late. How does this
relate to what you found? Same organization running both ends.

My question is, you found one about to be active, when will the next one be, how long, and who
is invited.
You people need to be preparing for this. When this happens it will be ugly.
Okay, so maybe they won't have camps - no big deal, right, wrong. Camps were being designed
to re-educate. They can alway's go to the alternative and just terminate - they do have a world
wide population quota to meet.
There are locations being built in the NW US that unlike this camp have an 8 inch gas line built
in to the facility. Now I wonder why?
Valhall, just find us some more camps!
KS Coyotee
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Valombre posted on 21-11-2005 @ 10:56 AM
Originally posted by twitchy

Wow man. Maybe we aren't so paranoid afterall. Too bad you didn't get any video, I bet Alex
jones would give his left one for this story Valhall.
Do you have any media contacts? I could give you some information if you want to take this
story and run with it, it might not make clear the mainstream media, but my god you got pure
gold there for the independent media.
We are not Paranoid, it's not the first time that this topics as been discuss in there, we are just
looking if in the next few years if we will have a NWO
and How humans are treated!!!
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troylawson posted on 1-12-2005 @ 07:40 PM

Hi all,
Been away for a while but back now. I just want to comment on this FEMA/Katrina thing that
caught my eye. I would hope that if I were in their shoes(those victims of the Katrina disaster) I
would have HELP from the Red Cross and kind people such as the author and his great family to
give a hand rather than what the FEMA organization did here in OK. It would seem to FEMA as
they were trouble makers when they were in reality part of the solution. As were those that
FEMA were helping(?). I don't know about you but I would rather not be referred to or treated
as a criminal in my hour of need. When I saw this thread, I was infuriated at and somewhat
ashamed of my government. I mean we all complain about the government from time to time
for various reasons, it is our birthright as Americans. But there is no excuse for this behavior.
True there are a lot of people to help and get back on their feet, but accusing the victims of
being criminals is plain wrong.I wonder what would happen if the roles were reversed.
troylawson
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Bripe Klmun posted on 5-12-2005 @ 12:15 PM
Valhall, I just wanted to say, "thanks" for posting this topic. I am sadly not surprised, but this
was what I really wanted...to see it in pictures.
This was more than a mere lack of empathy and responsibility that accounted for the oval
office's indifference and the government's delay in response, as well as the failure to plan for
the security of the most vulnerable: the poor, the infirm, the aged, the children. What it really
was, was a violation of basic human rights.
It is a truth that needs to be told, starting now - over and over. I hope a great deal of attention
is given to this thread, and that it opens some eyes.
Many people appreciate truthful reporting, Val. It’s just that the the complainers are louder and
more obnoxious. Keep up the great work!
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katdillon posted on 13-12-2005 @ 06:56 AM

Valhall, are there still people in these camps? Do you know how they're being treated presently?
I'm sorry if you've answered this. I haven't read through the 22 pages of this thread. I read
your story back after Katrina happened and wanted an update, if you'd be so willing.
copyright & usage
Originally posted by katdillon

Valhall, are there still people in these camps? Do you know how they're being treated presently?
I'm sorry if you've answered this. I haven't read through the 22 pages of this thread. I read your
story back after Katrina happened and wanted an update, if you'd be so willing.
katdillon,
As far as I know there were never any Katrina victims that stayed at the Falls Creek Camp. I do
not know if there are still people housed at Camp Gruber, but I will check into that and get back
with you.
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Infra_red posted on 16-12-2005 @ 08:08 PM
I was in Quik Chek this morning when i overheard a fireman who had just returned from the
Louisiana area and said "The camps down there are just like the concentration camps from back
in WWII" word for word. I had remembered this thread and had to post what I heard. If I had
the money, I would flee the country right about now. America is turning into a prison for its
citizens more and more everyday. The keys to our shackles are held by the elitists who make up
the ruling class and they refuse to liberate us. It is only a matter of time when that metaphor
becomes reality.
God I hope I hit the megamillion 2nite!
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LostSailor posted on 20-12-2005 @ 01:06 AM
Originally posted by picard_is_actually_a_grey

Exactly, its caused by contaminated water containing the feces of suffers, hence if they have
sanitation theres absolutely no risk of catching it. Also this is absolutely no reason why they
shouldn't allow people in to these camps or the 'refugees' out.
Well, these people just lost "everything" they had... They may have lived in the Superdome for
quite a long time. After that who knows where they lived and what sanitary conditions they
endured. What I'm trying to say... That despite the way this refugee camp sounds... It may be
better then any other option.
I don't like the location. I think they should have found some place closer to a major
metropolitan area. However, after hearing how Valhall described the location it seems like the
perfect area from a logistics view point. Lots of large buildings - already built - in a close
proximity to one another. The infrastructure was already in place is the point I'm trying to
make.
Yes, someone mentioned this already, but I think it got skipped over due to a heated debate on
the first page. A lot of the reasoning behind having strict rules in this camp stems from the
large quantity of sue happy people in this country. These people have nothing and I can
guarantee some of them would not think twice about opening a lawsuit if something bad
happened during their stay.
As far as letting people out, they are free to leave once all their paperwork is in order. They just
can't come back I guess. This may be a stern "parent" type tactic to get these people out of the
camp... Not sure if I like that.
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ugm84 posted on 22-12-2005 @ 08:34 AM

It's Coming to a Country near you!
One is, I wonder how many "misinformation" personal are on this site to discredit what ATS is
trying to do. Like the individual posted here, the NWO will take over in a flash once the
Christians are Raptured off. Then the "evil one will show his face on TV to everyone but instead
of speaking everyone will hear him telepathically in thier own language, and appear as the God
that they believe in Buddha, Allah, Vishnu, and the like. Then since everyone has been so
bombarded by movies about alien abduction I'm sure something will be said laying claim to it
and only he can protect you. The Christians who thought they were but got left behind will
probably be the first ones off to these detention camps. The first 3 1/2 years will be world
peace, then 3 1/2 years of death and destruction like have never happened before. Satan will
be cast to the Earth, and will require everyone to get the mark. I pray all of you get oil for your
lamps.
Originally posted by KS Coyotee

Valhall,
I don't think that anything that you state will change the minds [I'd say something else - but
then someone would cry flame] of these people who are in denial. Maybe [doubtful], if you had
been able to capture one of the fema people on the ground and coherse them into telling you the
whole plan would people believe this is happening.
I have seen this on so many boards - people just don't want to believe it could happen. It is
terrible to think that our gubermant would stoop to the level of the SS just as in WWII? They
wouldn't do that, would they??
A prominent Russian leader either in the late 1800 - early 1900's stated that at the opportune
time, they would take the US without firing a single shot. They would simply get americans to
busy in sports, porn, etc and we wouldn't see it coming until it was too late. How does this relate
to what you found? Same organization running both ends.
My question is, you found one about to be active, when will the next one be, how long, and who
is invited.
You people need to be preparing for this. When this happens it will be ugly.
Okay, so maybe they won't have camps - no big deal, right, wrong. Camps were being designed
to re-educate. They can alway's go to the alternative and just terminate - they do have a world
wide population quota to meet.
There are locations being built in the NW US that unlike this camp have an 8 inch gas line built in
to the facility. Now I wonder why?
Valhall, just find us some more camps!
KS Coyotee
copyright & usage
MagicPriest420 posted on 23-12-2005 @ 07:44 AM
let me say something....
the rapture WILL BE A ALIEN ABDUCTION..caused by jesus and the forces of light...all the ppl
who dont get abducted will be forced into undergorund bases and concentration camps...this
will be the perfect time for the reptillans to strike..when they know everyone will run to them...
THE REPTILLANS RUN ALL GOVERNMENTS IN SOME SHAPE OR FORM!....THE LOCUST WHO
APPEAR AFTER THE RAPTURE WILL BE THE REPTILLANS OR DRACOS...they will force all the ppl
to take a mark,this mark will join them to the reptillans...THIS WILL HAPPEN NEXT YEAR....IN
THE SIXTH SEAL OR 2006
copyright & usage
MagicPriest420 posted on 23-12-2005 @ 07:50 AM

oNCE JESUS RAPTURES THE TRUE BELIEVERS..
the government will lie and say that aliens are invading earth..and they have tooken our family
members...that is not true....the only alien invading earth are the ones that are already here....
the governmnets will all join together to form the NWO...the nwo will tell the world that the only
way to survive this invasion,will be too goto the camps..then when they reach the camps..they
will be forced to recieve the mark...anyone who doesnt take the mark..will be tormented 5
months until they break down and take the mark...
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Originally posted by Infra_red

If I had the money, I would flee the country right about now.
I just figured I would put my 2 cents in once again, if for no other reason than to get this
discussion back on track from the EXTREME left turn it just took...
Infrared... what country would you go to? As "oppressive" as this contry is, which one do you
consider less oppressive, and why?
copyright & usage

Originally posted by MagicPriest420

let me say something....
the rapture WILL BE A ALIEN ABDUCTION..caused by jesus and the forces of light...all the ppl
who dont get abducted will be forced into undergorund bases and concentration camps...this will
be the perfect time for the reptillans to strike..when they know everyone will run to them...THE
REPTILLANS RUN ALL GOVERNMENTS IN SOME SHAPE OR FORM!....THE LOCUST WHO APPEAR
AFTER THE RAPTURE WILL BE THE REPTILLANS OR DRACOS...they will force all the ppl to take a
mark,this mark will join them to the reptillans...THIS WILL HAPPEN NEXT YEAR....IN THE SIXTH
SEAL OR 2006
For goodness sake Magic, you are spreading these statements all over the board, putting it here
too is really a stretch.
Could you kindly just start your own thread if you feel you need to evangelize this theory of
yours?
copyright & usage
Originally posted by Infra_red

I was in Quik Chek this morning when i overheard a fireman who had just returned from the
Louisiana area and said "The camps down there are just like the concentration camps from back
in WWII" word for word. I had remembered this thread and had to post what I heard. If I had
the money, I would flee the country right about now. America is turning into a prison for its
citizens more and more everyday. The keys to our shackles are held by the elitists who make up
the ruling class and they refuse to liberate us. It is only a matter of time when that metaphor
becomes reality.
God I hope I hit the megamillion 2nite!
Thank you for posting this info, Infra_red. A few months ago I hit a wall and was seriously
considering leaving the country. I know a few people who have already left. My husband and I
talked it over and decided to stay and fight it. It's very frightening, but so much better than just
letting it happen. How could I leave such a horrible world to my daughter and not attempt to
change it for the better? I don't believe that other countries will be particularly safe. We need to
stand up for freedom, not run away.
About a year and a half ago, I moved to New Hampshire with the Free State Project. Since then,
my friends here and I have been engaging in various acts of protest and civil disobedience. I've
been shocked at how little resistance is needed to get the government to back down. The big
secret is that they MUST HAVE our willing compliance for their police state to happen. It cannot
happen without our voluntary servitude.
Now that you know what's happening to this country, please consider staying and fighting.
Freedom is worth it. This country is worth it.
Free State Project freestateproject.org...

NH Underground nhfree.com...
Voluntary Servitude www.soulawakenings.com...
www.soulawakenings.com...
Kat Dillon
NH Freedom Radical
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Oh, my husband suggested I give you the link to our FEMA protest we did. Here's the webpage
on it. There's a link to the newspaper article we got on the front page.
www.soulawakenings.com...
external image
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<< 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 >>

tags:

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<< 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 >>
BlackThought posted on 3-1-2006 @ 03:57 PM

If anyone saw the c span meetings of the Katrina commission on the process of failure you
would have heard the people talking about the concentration camp. The senator ties to stop her
from talking about the concentration camp she refused. Se kindly told the senator that she was
college educated and understood that the term is. They also talked about the rounding up of
people at gunpoint.
Imagine your own army is holding you at gunpoint!!
This show a big disconnect about race in the place. While we are telling the Sunnis' to repesect
the Kurds we need to tell the whites to respect the blacks.
GW bush could not even bring himself to call them Americans in his speeches!!
Where as there are floods in CA right now but none of them none of them are being call
refugees! This stinks to high heaven and if you consider yourself a Christian you should be
ashamed at how the representation of this government acted in this time of need. Gun being
pointed at 2 and 5 year old girls these people who governed the situation should be ashamed.!!!
copyright & usage
Submersible posted on 5-1-2006 @ 07:05 PM
It's amazing isn't it !
When somebody stumbles up on something that is happening to us that bothers them, or what
is happening to us stumbles upon them, their initial responce is to share the information with
others and learn more.
The only bad thing about that is, the more you look, it appears that almost everything is going
the wrong way... .and it honestly is.
About the concentration camps,

I have no doubt that they do exist and for whatever reason they are being established,
hopefully none of us will ever know.
But I do doubt that they will be successfull during a large scale "round-up".
Because of my size the day I turned 18 I became a correctional officer, a career that lasted less
than two years. For the most part prison guards dream about the opportunity to beat the hell
out of an inmate who steps out of line, as well as the men in the towers dream about getting to
shoot somebody in the head when they try to escape. That is their job, not to dream about it
and look forward to the event.. but to protect innocent civilians from dangerous people.

Everybody in jail today has been convicted of a crime that involves a "victim", and in order for a
handfull of men to keep thousands of other men under control, it has to be understood by both
sides that the penalty for escape may be death.
The guards are protecting the public from these 'bad' people.
If or when a situation would arise where thousands of Americans were being held against their
will, for a crime that does not have a victim, I do not believe the handfull of people in charge of
maintaining the 'walls' will be effective. Regardless if they are military personell, their family is
full of American citizens and I do not believe that they would be willing to kill an escapee, nor
would they be willing to put themselves in a situation where they would be killed by a mob of
people attacking whatever tries to stop their attempt at freedom.
...that's just one sense...
copyright & usage
KeyOfDestiny posted on 8-1-2006 @ 07:41 PM
Civilian Concentration Camps & Welffare
SEMPER FI...
They have built more than 600 Civilian Concentration camps here in America...could these
camps be considered one of them ???
The TV gave you a small look at the: welfare "thugs" there....these welfare "thugs" just want
to: rob, loot, rape and murder you....
So, they send these welfare "thugs" to some camp....what do you think is going to go on in that
camp ??? It will be a FREE for ALL, to wit: Rob, Loot, Rape and Murder....

They are training these welfare "thugs" to rob, loot, rape and murder you...what are you going
to do ?? call the Police ??? send an email ???
SEMPER FI ....
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rowdyroddy posted on 13-1-2006 @ 10:16 PM
I feel all the security is a good thing and is there for the best interests of the people. you might
see it as concentration camp type setting but lets not forget when katrina happened hundreds
of women were raped in the dome in new orleans. These are poor *very poor* people who lost
everything and it doesnt take much for one of them to snap and go commit a crime. New
orleans had one of the largest crime rates in the country so that crime rate has a potential of
traveling with them.
copyright & usage
Originally posted by rowdyroddy

I feel all the security is a good thing and is there for the best interests of the people. you might
see it as concentration camp type setting but lets not forget when katrina happened hundreds of
women were raped in the dome in new orleans.
No they weren't.
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Originally posted by rowdyroddy

happened hundreds of women were raped in the dome in new orleans.
Um, please state your source for this. A credible source, not just some internet blog.
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MoT posted on 17-1-2006 @ 07:45 AM
this is crazy ! great investigation tho
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Originally posted by KeyOfDestiny

SEMPER FI...
They have built more than 600 Civilian Concentration camps here in America...could these
camps be considered one of them ???
The TV gave you a small look at the: welfare "thugs" there....these welfare "thugs" just want to:
rob, loot, rape and murder you....
So, they send these welfare "thugs" to some camp....what do you think is going to go on in that
camp ??? It will be a FREE for ALL, to wit: Rob, Loot, Rape and Murder....
They are training these welfare "thugs" to rob, loot, rape and murder you...what are you going
to do ?? call the Police ??? send an email ???
SEMPER FI ....
I'm interested in what you have to say, but i would ask you to give links to each of your

assertions. all of them please. otherwise it coul be a product of your own imaginings.
you, so far, state them as fact. may i see the facts, please?
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warriorwolfpr posted on 18-1-2006 @ 11:17 AM
Hello friends:
That is very sad and subreal. I had read very scary things
about F.E.M.A. and their policies. I know they can declear
Martial law. I know the can detain and house peolple for
any period of time. The can come into your house and pull any
one out without reason if a "Emergency" is declare.
I belive the F.E.M.A. and other federal agencies were late responding
to the Huracane emergencies in New Orleins because most of this
people were blacks and poor.
Racesims is alive, and doing oh so well!!!
copyright & usage
peterpaul posted on 22-1-2006 @ 10:12 AM
Invisible Information?
Originally posted by Floh
Originally posted by KeyOfDestiny

SEMPER FI...
They have built more than 600 Civilian Concentration camps here in America...could
these camps be considered one of them ???
The TV gave you a small look at the: welfare "thugs" there....these welfare "thugs" just
want to: rob, loot, rape and murder you....
So, they send these welfare "thugs" to some camp....what do you think is going to go on
in that camp ??? It will be a FREE for ALL, to wit: Rob, Loot, Rape and Murder....
They are training these welfare "thugs" to rob, loot, rape and murder you...what are you
going to do ?? call the Police ??? send an email ???
SEMPER FI ....
I'm interested in what you have to say, but i would ask you to give links to each of your
assertions. all of them please. otherwise it coul be a product of your own imaginings.
you, so far, state them as fact. may i see the facts, please?
Here is something to answer that request from friendsofliberty.com :
FEMA CONCENTRATION CAMPS: Locations and Executive Orders
Privacy There over 800 prison camps in the United States, all fully operational and ready to
receive prisoners. They are all staffed and even surrounded by full-time guards, but they are all
empty. These camps are to be operated by FEMA (Federal Emergency Management Agency)
should Martial Law need to be implemented in the United States and all it would take is a
presidential signature on a proclamation and the attorney general's signature on a warrant to
which a list of names is attached. Ask yourself if you really want to be on Ashcroft's list.
www.sianews.com...
www.sianews.com...
Use their search to find more articles concerning "concentration camps". There may be one near
you that you haven't heard about.
Peter Paul
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ajm4481 posted on 23-1-2006 @ 12:03 AM

Thank you FEMA
Why?
Because August 29th I had no roof that afternoon. Started the day with a room but in the late
morning I had no roof. But the following week I had a blue roof , they become really
attrative after a while.
Thank you FEMA
Why?
Becuase even when all my family was out of work, because their work places didnt exist
anymore, but even then they made sure we had food everynight, that we had water every
night, and that i could go to sleep knowing the next day was going to be bearable.
Thank you FEMA
Why?
Because as soon as grocery stores began to reopen they made sure we all had money to get
there and get things we needed.
Thank you FEMA
Why?
Because the near month without power was blessed with FEMA personel coming down the
streets during the day making sure we had everything we needed.
Thank you FEMA
Why?
Because I live in an area that didnt get flooded, I lived in an area that got the worst part of
Katrina, the MS coast. I live in an area where the storm surge came and destroyed most of
everything I ever knew my entire life, basically wiped away. I live in an area where almost
everyone I know is now homeless. But even though all that is true, all my friends and family
that need a place for shelter now have a place. It might be a tiny trailor amongst many other
trailers, some in trailors where their old house use to sit, a few in a tent city...well they got that
changed to trailors now...heck i even have a few friends scattered around the country staying in
hotels. All this taken care of by FEMA. I guess you could call all of them detainees if youd like,
but i like to think of them as my friends and family who now have a free place to stay, while
they figure out something to do back here...they are all free to go anytime they wish too...Even
the people that stay on the floating "detainment camp" can leave whenever they want...ahha
the cruise ship they are using ot house people...wow thats one odd thought...though i dont
know of many people actually staying on it...
Thank You FEMA
Why?
Becuase i thoguht i was going to have to drop out of school this year, and pick up next year.
But because of your help, I didnt have to...and i am now about to finish my last and 6th year of
college.
Thank You FEMA
Why?
Becuase of the medical facilities that were needed so greatly. So many kids that got cut, hurt,
injured...it was greatly needed.
Thank You FEMA
Why?
Because even though it might look like i live in a third world country right now, the needs were
always met. Granted you couldnt get to us in the first few days, we had to come to you. Thats
what its about though. You cant just sit there and scream we need this, we need you here...you
might not want to, but you got to fend for yourself sometime. That is the single biggest
difference between NO and my area. We didnt complain, we worked together, we teamed up,
we did whatever it was we had to do to get to where we had to go.
and then....
Thank you my state and local government
Why?
Because yall did not hesitate to get FEMA into our area.
Thank you G W Bush

Why?
Because your resiliance has meant lots of help for our areas.
Thank every single one of you reading this, and every single American out there
Why?
Because when you are sitting in a city destroyed, and you see all the people showing support,
when you see trucks coming form everywhere to help, when you see people holding fundraisers,
when you see people from outside what you now know as normal, when you see them showing
so much love and support..its an incredible, heart wrenching, emotional, indescribable feeling of
THANK YOU. There were days when i thought I coudlnt take it anymore, you can only see
destruction so much, you think you exist solely in your debris lined yard, but boy i tell you...id
get that black and white tv plugged into my car at night....watch wahtever channel managed to
get picked up..and id see the support you all gave, and the compassion and care...and it made
me so happy, it made me feel like i wasnt forgotten about by my fellow citizens, it made me
know that as much as we have different beliefs in politics, and things "fema detainment camps",
it made me realize that even though i think that is completely silly, it really doesnt matter at
all...because we are humans, we are americans, we are compassionate...and we care about one
another.
Thank you all from the bottom of my heart, I could never repay the debt i owe to you for the
support and comfort every person in this country has given during the worst time of my life.
copyright & usage
Originally posted by ajm4481
You cant just sit there and scream we need this, we need you here...you might not want to, but
you got to fend for yourself sometime. That is the single biggest difference between NO and my
area. We didnt complain, we worked together, we teamed up, we did whatever it was we had to
do to get to where we had to go.

AJM has my vote for "Way Above" for summing up in just 3 sentences a reasonable point of
view of this whole mess.
copyright & usage
Thank you, ajm!
It is nice to hear a good story and how our government did come through for some one! I hope
all is going well with your efforts to get your life back in order.
copyright & usage
ajm4481 posted on 23-1-2006 @ 06:22 PM
Your welcome... I honestly didnt know how it would be taken. I might have a difference of
opinion but I respect to death your feelings on things. I'm just one man, with one point of
view....and if it wasnt for people with opposing points of view, and those points of view being
listened too at the very least....well you know where we would be...not in a place where
Ignorance is Denied....we sould be living in our White House....haha... Sorry, even though i
mostly like Bush...the man is far from perfect...have to take a stab at him every now and
then...
Yes but I was reading this thread, it didnt really irritate me, it was just it has tremendous
emphasis here on ATS. I felt it was losing one side of the story, mainly my side. Even though
FEMA might have some crooked agenda, there are thousands of people working for FEMA that
have touched the lives and made the lives better for hundreds of thousands of us down here...
and I would hate to see that aspect of FEMA lost... Because you know as well as I know, that we
don't know much when it comes to what is really going on...you are doing a great job on this
thread Valhall, keep it up...
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AdamJ posted on 23-1-2006 @ 07:23 PM

I think the idea is not to deamonize an emergency management agency or the good people who
work for it, but to keep tabs on what is going on behind the scenes at these powerfull agencies.
Im glad you got a does of the community spirit feeling, something that does come out in
difficult times, people bond together help each other overcome things. Most people do.
I would like to point out that i dont think people here are against emergency management for
example. That is not what you are saying, i know, but i wanted to make that point anyway.
copyright & usage
ajm4481 posted on 23-1-2006 @ 07:56 PM

I think the idea is not to deamonize an emergency management agency or the good people who
work for it, but to keep tabs on what is going on behind the scenes at these powerfull agencies.
Yeah I agree, and thats why I think Valhall is doing a great job in this thread. I might have a
different opinion, but if people didnt keep tabs on whats going on then we would definately have
some problems. Thats why I like it here on ATS so much, I like to know what people think could
possibly be going on. I just don't want the little guys forgotten about, that are out there doing
the best job they can. They are the ones that make up the FEMA i know. I have no clue whats
going on way up there in the chain of command, but at least we got people trying to figure it
out...
copyright & usage

I would like to point out that i dont think people here are against emergency management for
example. That is not what you are saying, i know, but i wanted to make that point anyway.
You are absolutely correct! In fact, it would have been nice to have 10's of thousands of more
stories like amj's! And I can't help but think that the difference in handling not only might have
come from a mindset of those affected, but a stereotyping by those conducting the relief efforts.
Whatever the reason for some of the things that happened (or almost happened), I hope that
our government agencies will learn and not make the same poor decisions, or the same pathetic
inactions, but do much better at having heart for the people they are helping while they are just
"doing their jobs". And I hope citizens will continue to expect that for their fellow citizens.
copyright & usage
Sugarlump posted on 27-1-2006 @ 08:10 AM
AMj's story is truly the one we'd rather hear.... even the most hard core cynics among us have
to smile and be so proud that some people were treated the way we hope every man woman
and child on the planet would be treated in the face of a disaster. Man after all the gloom and
doom and bad news we are bombarded with I am smilin from ear to ear to hear someone got
treated right. thx man.
copyright & usage
corusso posted on 29-1-2006 @ 02:23 AM
I'm glad to hear you did well. I didn't do so good. I'm also on the gulf coast. FEMA determined
everything I owned was only worth $772. So, I have no "thank you's" for FEMA. But, I will
agree the local people and others have done great! Like the song says, "We will get by, we will
survive."

copyright & usage
ejsaunders posted on 31-1-2006 @ 12:59 PM
Great post
I'd agree with many of the previous posters, particularly wecomeinpeace; that the government,
being as they are, think that the 'general populace' particularly those from NO (NOT my view
btw) are all tax-dodging louts.
Thus, the rule for allowing them out only once seems to be probably directed to the fact that if
they allowed them back in, they could smuggle in weapons, luxury items (riots...), friends
(extra food req, etc) and so forth. This is the probable reason; if they allow people in and out
willynilly, they would have to make security tighter, searches in/out etc, which may be against
human rights. In essence the rule is probably more about trying to keep the peace, than keep
them in. The government is probably just trying to reduce the cost of the overall project (and
they are probably using reconstituted MRE meals, hell, if I were an evil government I know I
would they're disguting!)
However... I've been in the 'establishment' myself, I've seen what large corps and the military
can do (in my case they were doing it together). They are liers, crooks, cheats, and any other
unpleasant word you can think of. They will cover themselves by making you take the fall, or
take away everything you think you 'own' (civil liberties, etc) just because they can. We live in
their world, at least that's how they see it, without them running the world, man would be
forced to root in the dirt...
I also think as several others do, this isn't the 'big bang', this is just the universe sneezing; it's
going to get worse and then we'll see what they can do. It's a test, not sure on who or for what,
other than to test out their systems of defence, population control etc.
I'm all in for the conspiracy theories, hell most of them are likely true and I DO think this was
planned, as an exercise. I just hope to God I'm not around when the real stuff hits the fan...
mod edit: Do not circumvent the censors
[edit on 1-2-2006 by sanctum]
copyright & usage

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peterpaul posted on 31-1-2006 @ 11:39 PM

For Political Subversives?
Just found this on the net and let you be the first to know:
"Halliburton Detention Camps For Political Subversives

www.prisonplanet.com...
Quote:
"Discussions of federal concentration camps is no longer the rhetoric of paranoid Internet
conspiracy theorists, it is mainstream news."
There is a link there that leads to Yahoo, published 24 Jan. 2006

biz.yahoo.com...
Sorry to put this up for you, just reading it gives me a bad feeling. If it keeps going on like this
ATS might soon be running out of "theories". One thing for sure is that Halliburton isn't a theory
unless they get $385 million for doing nothing.
Peter Paul
copyright & usage
NextLevel posted on 10-2-2006 @ 09:59 AM
Why must this be called a "FEMA Detainment Camp". Isn't that sensationalist?
It's a private area that was commissioned by the Federal Government to alleviate overcrowing
of refugees. And if you call Detainment the process whereby they refuse to allow in/out privilege
to people when they clearly shouldn't be abusing that, I guess you're wrong too. It's called
refusing re-entry.
And weren't people free to leave? Thus, again, I refute the detainment aspect. Tsk, tsk. Such
glamorous wording.
copyright & usage

Originally posted by NextLevel

And weren't people free to leave? Thus, again, I refute the detainment aspect. Tsk, tsk. Such
glamorous wording.
If you read this entire thread, you might see how that point was not entirely clear. Literary
license???? Perhaps. But for a while there, it looked like it was pretty close to the truth.
copyright & usage
Are there any updates to this, Valhall? Are there people residing there now, do you know?
copyright & usage

As far as I know there were never any evacuees residing at the camp. Shortly after the camp
was prepared, for some unclear reason, the plan to move evacuees there was delayed several
times and over a week after my visit there, Governor Henry announced the camp would not be
used.
copyright & usage
Originally posted by loam
Originally posted by NextLevel

And weren't people free to leave? Thus, again, I refute the detainment aspect. Tsk, tsk.
Such glamorous wording.
If you read this entire thread, you might see how that point was not entirely clear. Literary
license???? Perhaps. But for a while there, it looked like it was pretty close to the truth.
I would like to also comment on this. Because I'm personally sick and tired of the repeated
comments on the title of this thread. Especially when the poster has nothing of value to add
(like NextLevel) and simply thinks they know what the correct title should have been (please
note they never offer what that correct title would be). The point of this DISCUSSION thread
(and I emphasize that because this wasn't a "news article") was to share and discuss what was
said to me that day and what I saw that caused me concern.
There were two issues that caused me the most concern..
1. An extremely inappropriate attitude toward the people allegedly headed to the camp.
2. The fact the people who would reside in the camp would not have the freedom to come and
go. They would have the choice of either staying 24/7 in the camp, or leave with no chance to
come back.

Now, I could have called it
"I just got back from a FEMA humiliation camp"
or
"I just got back from a FEMA concentration camp"
or
"I just got back from a FEMA detention camp"
or
"I just got back from a FEMA holding camp"
I was NOT going to title it
"I just got back from a FEMA refugee camp"
or
"I just got back from a FEMA evacuee camp"
because neither of the bottom two reflect the concerns and why I was starting the discussion
thread in the first place. To me, when I headed to the camp, I was headed to a refugee camp or
evacuee camp. When I left, I was not leaving what those words represented to me, but
something totally different. Because in my mind, in America, if there was an evacuee or refugee
camp for U.S. citizens, it would be a location provided to them for temporary housing after a
catastrophe, but that still afforded their full citizen's rights.
The point of this thread is that they were not going to be given their full citizen's
rights while staying at this camp.
It was my own personal opinion that to use "concentration camp" or "holding camp" or
"detention camp" would not reflect what I was trying to say. Concentration camp has far to
severe a connotation (thanks to a lot of bad history connected with it). Holding camp may have
been okay, but still didn't denote what I was trying to say. Detention camp would have been
WRONG and, in fact, sensationalist because a detention camp is basically a prison (i.e.
Guantanamo), you can't leave AT ALL.
I chose "detainment" because it voiced that the people were detained in their rights to free
movement without denoting a full restriction to ALL movement (i.e. they could leave - but
couldn't come back). The reason I chose this word was because it was the only thing I could
think of that accurately voiced my concern and there was several minutes of considering what to
title this thread.
"I'm sorry for being late...I was detained."
Based on the repeated drivel of several people who think they could have done a better job of
naming this thread, the next time some one offers the above sentence when arriving late I
guess I should call them a sensationalist.
copyright & usage
The point of this thread is that they were not going to be given their full citizen's rights
while staying at this camp.
Valhall, can you please specify which citizen's rights the occupants (detainees, whatever) of this
camp were going to be denied?
copyright & usage

Article 12 - Freedom of movement
203. As reported in the Initial Report, in the United States, the right to travel -
both domestically and internationally - is constitutionally protected. The U.S.
Supreme Court has held that it is "a part of the 'liberty' of which a citizen cannot
be deprived without due process of law under the Fifth Amendment". See Zemel v.
Rusk, 381 U.S. 1 (1965). As a consequence, governmental actions affecting travel are
subject to the mechanisms for judicial review of constitutional questions described
elsewhere in this report. Moreover, the United States Supreme Court has
emphasized that it "will construe narrowly all delegated powers that curtail or
dilute citizens' ability to travel". See Kent v. Dulles, 357 U.S. 116, 129 (1958).
www.state.gov...
Examples of civil rights and liberties include the right to get redress if injured by another,
the right to privacy, the right of peaceful protest, the right to a fair investigation and trial
if suspected of a crime, and more generally-based constitutional rights such as the right to
vote, the right to personal freedom, the right to life, the right to freedom of movement
and anti-discrimination laws. As civilisations emerged and formalised through written
constitutions, some of the more important civil rights were granted to citizens. When those
grants were later found inadequate, civil rights movements emerged as the vehicle for
claiming more equal protection for all citizens and advocating new laws to limit the effect
of current discriminations.
www.answers.com...
Article 13
Everyone has the right to freedom of movement and residence within the borders of

each State.
Everyone has the right to leave any country, including his own, and to return to his
country.
www.uscirf.gov...
Undoubtedly the right of locomotion, the right to remove from one place to
another according to inclination, is an attribute of personal liberty, and the right,
ordinarily, of free transit from or through the territory of any state is a right
secured by the 14th Amendment and by other provisions of the Constitution.
And so as to the right to contract. The liberty, of which the deprivation without due
process of law is forbidden, 'means not only the right of the citizen to be free
from the mere physical restraint of his person, as by incarceration, but the term
is deemed to embrace the right of the citizen to be free in the enjoyment of all
his faculties; to be free to use them in all lawful ways; to live and work where he
will; to earn his livelihood by any lawful calling; to pursue any livelihood or
avocation, and for that purpose to enter into all contracts which may be proper,
necessary, and essential to his carrying out to a successful conclusion the
purposes above mentioned; . . . although it may be conceded that this right to contract
in relation to persons or property or to do business within the jurisdiction of the state may
be regulated and sometimes prohibited when the contracts or business conflict with the
policy of the state as contained in its statutes.' Allgeyer v. Louisiana, 165 U.S. 589, 591,
41 S. L. ed. 835, 836, 17 Sup. Ct. Rep. 427; Holden v. Hardy, 169 U.S. 366, 42 L. ed.
780, 18 Sup. Ct. Rep. 383.
www.justia.us...
Due Process
Johnson v. City of Cincinnati, No. 00-4477 (6th Cir. Sept. 26, 2002). A city ordinance
banning persons arrested for or convicted of drug offenses from “drug exclusion zones”

violated due process by infringing on the right to intrastate travel because the ordinance
was not narrowly tailored to serve a compelling government interest in enhancing the
quality of life in drugplagued neighborhoods and to protect the health, safety, and welfare
of citizens in those areas because the ordinance broadly excluded individuals from such
neighborhoods without regard to their reason for traveling there, and without any
particularized finding that they were likely to engage in recidivist drug activity.
www.iml.org...
Justice Douglas stood on loftier ground than the Interstate Commerce Clause: "The right
of free movement is a right of national citizenship." To except the poor and
destitute from this right would contravene every conception of national unity. "It
would prevent a citizen because he was poor from seeking new horizons in other
States." On the contrary, "Mobility is basic to any question of freedom of
opportunity."
www.constitution.org...
Amendment I
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free
exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the
people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.
www.law.cornell.edu...
Two clauses in the First Amendment guarantee freedom of religion. The establishment
clause prohibits the government from passing legislation to establish an official religion or
preferring one religion over another. It enforces the "separation of church and state. Some
governmental activity related to religion has been declared constitutional by the Supreme

Court. For example, providing bus transportation for parochial school students and the
enforcement of "blue laws" is not prohibited. The free exercise clause prohibits the
government, in most instances, from interfering with a persons practice of their religion.
The right to assemble allows people to gather for peaceful and lawful purposes. Implicit
within this right is the right to association and belief. The Supreme Court has expressly
recognized that a right to freedom of association and belief is implicit in the First, Fifth,
and Fourteenth Amendments. This implicit right is limited to the right to associate for First
Amendment purposes. The right to associate also prohibits the government from requiring
a group to register or disclose its members or from denying government benefits on the
based on an individuals current or past membership in a particular group.
Amendment V
No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a
presentment or indictment of a grand jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval
forces, or in the militia, when in actual service in time of war or public danger; nor shall
any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor
shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived
of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be
taken for public use, without just compensation.
Section I-2: Religious liberty - Polygamous or plural marriages.

Perfect toleration of religious sentiment shall be secured, and
no inhabitant of the State shall ever be molested in person or
property on account of his or her mode of religious worship; and no
religious test shall be required for the exercise of civil or
political rights. Polygamous or plural marriages are forever
prohibited.
oklegal.onenet.net...
Section II-2: Inherent rights.

All persons have the inherent right to life, liberty, the
pursuit of happiness, and the enjoyment of the gains of their own
industry.
Section II-3: Right of assembly and petition.

The people have the right peaceably to assemble for their own
good, and to apply to those invested with the powers of
government for redress of grievances by petition, address, or
remonstrance.
Section II-7: Due process of law.

No person shall be deprived of life, liberty, or property,
without due process of law.
Section II-13: Imprisonment for debt.

Imprisonment for debt is prohibited, except for the non-payment
of fines and penalties imposed for the violation of law.

copyright & usage
Any of the rights concerning freedom of movement you sited are not applicable, because
freedom of movement has never applied to entering or leaving private property.
The right to enter or leave private property is controlled by the owner or authorized
representative of the property. Private property rights extend to government owned and
operated facilities (although I don't understand why they should, since the government is really
supposed to be "the people".)
I don't understand your references to freedom of religion, imprisonment for debts, deprivation
of life, liberty and property, and freedom of assembly; I would appreciate some clarification on
these points.
copyright & usage
I don't believe that argument would hold. FEMA/OEMA leased it "lock and stock and barrel", that
made it a government operated and leased site paid for with taxpayers' money. There's plenty
of federal offices and facilities that are leased - they have to operate under the same guidelines
as a fully-owned.
They were going to be restricted from leaving to look for work, to find a home elsewhere, to
attend the church of their choosing, etc. (with etc. being everything short of leaving for good.)
copyright & usage

sardion2000 posted on 20-2-2006 @ 10:08 AM

For private property that only aplies to allowing people onto the property not leaving. You
prevent someone leaving your property and that is called unlawful detainment. (Kidnapping)
copyright & usage
ch1466 posted on 21-2-2006 @ 11:59 AM
Valhall,
1. Don't ever volunteer. It costs you all rights to oversight. Make them take it so that /because
of that outrage/ you can retain some rights as an 'interested citizen'.
2. Don't assume that because we are collectively j'accused of being suit-happy that there is not
a secondary motive inherent to the brainwashing. i.e. "Don't want to be labelled, let the
government handle /evvvvverything/...." It's subtle but it does work because while you might
laugh off the alien-outsider mouthpieces, as soon as your peers discusss it, it becomes
oppressive on the basis of getting them to stop.
3. OTOH, public disclosure is the hallmark of social identity _as a safety net_ by which we trust
ourselves to hear the worst and work through our own minds 'what it all means.
In this case, a responsible Fed would be leasing airtime on every PBS station they could find
with the intent of "We will pick no sides but since we are a /non profit sponsor/ of these
institutions...." showing how good and how bad things are.
4. I don't trust charity systems which are not directly by-for-and-of the people. Not least
because it violates Rule #1 of disaster politics which states "If ever in doubt, make them feel
guilty for NOT participating sooner." So that you don't have to shoulder the blame alone but can
be seen in a Churchillian light. Indeed, when I think of 'charity goods' sitting in some warehouse
eventually intended for someone, I think more of Somalia than here. It being all too easy for
nefarious groups either 'hired' as microindustrial concerns or operating as for-profit funded
means to black ops to take advantage of this.
It may be a case where 'teaching to fish' is NOT as good as handing the meal in question over
yourself.
5. One reason it is dangerous to initiate this kind of sytem is in fact simply the danger of
dependency. While I won't go so far as to say it is a different kind of wellfare. Nor even a
Stockholm complex in the making, there are elements of both. Cheery, open minded, but /
driven/ charity groups directly participating in supporting the disaster-indigent have a FAR more
'gratitude PLUS embarrassment' healthy effect because they will not let the victims remain so,
forever and their giving will itself be an open insult to the proud who do no want a handout so
much as a handup. The question then being whether said charities are in a position to help
make the jobs and self sufficiency happen through a combined weaning process and 'my
compassion is for all but my respect will only be for those who will come outside this gilded cage
with me...' Hard as nails morality.
6. In approximately 2 years, we will get another shot at this. Congress will declare our
surrender in Iraq much as it did in SEA and while there will be a massive war debt to
ammortize, so too will there be an equally great opportunity to downsize the military by half or
one third for having failed to capture the ONE MAN who is behind all this. Forget Saddam. And
rebuild NOLA.
THAT is the key to limiting our governments power over us. By denying the external threat
paranoia which dictates a lock-down state at home. And forcing them to secure locally what
they refused to manage internationally.
One such 'security' being the rebuilding of one of our great cities.
Myself, I am not at all sure that NOLA needs to fight flood waters when it's very existence
inhibits the deposition of silt and lowers the barriers.
BUT. Somewhere, there should be a city for these people. And whether it is right where it's at.
Or someplace upriver. _That_ ladies and gents, is where we should do a MASSIVE habitat for
humanity project. Because there will be noone there to be raped. Or stolen from. Or forceably
'detained' under a strict set of rules (lest there be riots!).
It will be a void of existence where people who can lift a shovel or swing a hammer can rebuild,
free of charge, something that is free to own.
Such an effort to establish lawful residency and provide equal replacement of same being what
my principal goal would be in camps such as these.
CONCLUSION:
I will judge these people by what natural level they let themselves find. But I will salve my
conscience in the belief that we /could/ rebuild what was destroyed, with organized Christian
labor. Vastly more assuredly and 'from scratch' than we could micromanage the care and
feeding of human animals.
TIME is the enemy here. The faster we create a replacement environment for these folks to live
in, the less guilt, outrage and uncertainty over how we should be treating them vs. how we let
our government stand in our place in doing so will matter.
The solution is not in High Creek or whatever the heck it is. It is in creating what comes after.
And as far as I can tell, there is not the same kind of even tract-house (Post WWII, given
_honorably_ as 1,200sq ft cottages to vets with minimum mortgages) attempts at a Post
Katrina Marshal Plan as there is, even to this day, in Iraq on a corporate level.
Don't let your government discourage or shut off the channels by which you can help. Use the
internet to create the kinds of unified voice in Congress that forces a PWA type system into
existence and then _contribute_, directly, to that. Even as you replace the President whose
system of systems so scares you with it's efficiency of rendering humans into cattle.
KPl.
LINKS-
Think About It.
www.nal.usda.gov...
www.iabeef.org...&%20Photos%5CFeedlot%20Cattle%20bw.JPG
www.usda.gov...
lib.colostate.edu...
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Originally posted by sardion2000

For private property that only aplies to allowing people onto the property not leaving. You
prevent someone leaving your property and that is called unlawful detainment. (Kidnapping)
Yeah you are right, sorry I posted it the way I did.
Anyway the people who were going to go there were free to leave.
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PrairieTsunami posted on 23-2-2006 @ 02:34 PM
Katrina in general and your post more specifically
i just got finished digesting the entire thread that grew out of your most inspiring journey to the
"camp". I have been a conspiracy watcher for the better part of 2 decades now, on a computer
a little longer and was born and raised in Metairie ( a VERY large suburb, right up against New
Orleans to the West). I live in Canada now (for the last 10 yrs). Let me start by saying your
original post was an inspiration. In all the years I have been following these stories that we all
follow, I have remained a "lurker",not feeling compelled to say anything, just using the boards
as a way of getting info and forming my own opinion.
The "Situation" that has come to light since Katrina is an ugly one. The Feds seem to realize
that "we" are out their and they better be on best behavior. Thats why i think the powers that
be chose not to send any victims to the "camp" in Oklahoma.

I feel in my heart and from what my Brother in metairie is saying, the levees were blown to take
the City and make it white. He says that there are significantly fewer Afro-Americans in N.O.
now and we are 5 months from the catastrophe. i dont get it, i mean, i get it , but it makes me
sick.
when do they plan on moving these ppl back home. Even if they dont have a house they are
from there.
I don't even want to visit.
Thanks for doing what you do, that goes to all the ppl that contribute to the threads in a
positive way. I know that sometimes some ppl can get too bitchy like its a H.S. club or
something but forget them and keep on keepin on.
Prairie Tsunami
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resistor posted on 11-3-2006 @ 12:38 AM
It seems that everything old is new again.
The Halliburton subsidiary KBR (formerly Brown and Root) announced on Jan.
24 that it had been awarded a $385 million contingency contract by the
Department of Homeland Security to build detention camps. Two weeks later,
on Feb. 6, Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff announced that the
Fiscal Year 2007 federal budget would allocate over $400 million to add
6,700 additional detention beds (an increase of 32 percent over 2006).
This $400 million allocation is more than a four-fold increase over the FY
2006 budget, which provided only $90 million for the same purpose.
Both the contract and the budget allocation are in partial fulfillment of
an ambitious 10-year Homeland Security strategic plan, code-named ENDGAME,
authorized in 2003. According to a 49-page Homeland Security document on
the plan, ENDGAME expands "a mission first articulated in the Alien and
Sedition Acts of 1798." Its goal is the capability to "remove all
removable aliens," including "illegal economic migrants, aliens who have
committed criminal acts, asylum-seekers (required to be retained by law)

or potential terrorists."
There is no question that the Bush administration is under considerable

political pressure to increase the detentions of illegal immigrants,
especially from across the Mexican border. Confrontations along the border
are increasingly violent, often involving the drug traffic.
But the problem of illegal immigration cannot be separated from other Bush
administration policies: principally the retreat from traditional American
programs designed to combat poverty in Latin America. In Florida last
week, Democratic Party leader Howard Dean attacked the new federal budget
for its almost 30 percent cut in development aid to Latin America and the
Caribbean.
In truth, both parties have virtually abandoned the John F. Kennedy vision
of an Alliance for Progress in Latin America. Kennedy's hope was that, by
raising the standard of living of Latin America's poor, there would be
less pressure on them to emigrate to the United States.
That vision foundered when successive administrations, both Democratic and

Republican, contributed to the overthrow of democratically elected
governments in Brazil, Chile and elsewhere, replacing them with oppressive
dictatorships.
Since about 1970, the policies of the U.S.-dominated International

Monetary Fund have also aggravated the problem of poverty in the rest of
the world, especially Latin America. U.S. programs abroad, like programs
at home, are now designed principally around the concept of security --
above all for oil installations and pipelines.
In consequence, the United States is being redefined as a vast gated

community, hoping to isolate itself by force from its poverty-stricken
neighbors. Inside the U.S. fortress sit 2.1 million prisoners, a greater
percentage of the population than in any other nation. ENDGAME's crash
program is designed to house additional detainees who have not been
convicted of crimes.
Significantly, both the KBR contract and the ENDGAME plan are open-ended.

The contract calls for a response to "an emergency influx of immigrants,

or to support the rapid development of new programs" in the event of other
emergencies, such as "a natural disaster." "New programs" is of course a
term with no precise limitation. So, in the current administration, is
ENDGAME's goal of removing "potential terrorists."
It is relevant that in 2002, Attorney General John Ashcroft announced his

desire to see camps for U.S. citizens deemed to be "enemy combatants." On
Feb. 17 of this year, in a speech to the Council on Foreign Relations,
Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld spoke of the harm being done to the
country's security, not just by the enemy, but also by what he called
"news informers" who needed to be combated in "a contest of wills." Two
days earlier, citing speeches critical of Bush by Al Gore, John Kerry, and
Howard Dean, conservative columnist Ben Shapiro called for "legislation to
prosecute such sedition."
Since 9/11 the Bush administration has implemented a number of

inter-related programs, which had been planned for secretly in the 1980s
under President Reagan. These so-called "Continuity of Government" or COG
proposals included vastly expanded detention capabilities, warrantless
eavesdropping and detention, and preparations for greater use of martial
law.
Prominent among the secret planners of this program in the 1980s were
then-Congressman Dick Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld, who at the time was in
private business as CEO of the drug company G.D. Searle.
The principal desk officer for the program was Oliver North, until he was
forced to resign in 1986 over Iran-Contra.
When planes crashed into the World Trade Center on Sept. 11, 2001, Vice
President Cheney's response, after consulting President Bush, was to
implement a classified "Continuity of Government" plan for the first time,
according to the 9/11 Commission report. As the Washington Post later
explained, the order "dispatched a shadow government of about 100 senior
civilian managers to live and work secretly outside Washington, activating
for the first time long-standing plans."
What these managers in this shadow government worked on has never been

reported. But it is significant that the group that prepared ENDGAME was,
as the Homeland Security document puts it, "chartered in September 2001."
For ENDGAME's goal of a capacious detention capability is remarkably
similar to Oliver North's controversial Rex-84 "readiness exercise" for
COG in 1984. This called for the Federal Emergency Management Agency
(FEMA) to round up and detain 400,000 imaginary "refugees," in the context
of "uncontrolled population movements" over the Mexican border into the
United States.
North's exercise, which reportedly contemplated possible suspension of the

United States Constitution, led to questions being asked during the
Iran-Contra Hearings. One concern then was that North's plans for expanded
internment and detention facilities would not be confined to "refugees"
alone.
Oliver North represented a minority element in the Reagan administration,

which soon distanced itself from both the man and his proposals. But that
minority associated with COG planning, which included Dick Cheney, appear
to be in control of the U.S. government today.
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Originally posted by resistor

The Halliburton subsidiary KBR (formerly Brown and Root) announced on Jan.
24 that it had been awarded a $385 million contingency contract by the
Department of Homeland Security to build detention camps.
Please state your source and provide links if possible.

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It's true.
Halliburton Press Release Jan. 24, 2006
KBR announced today that its Government and Infrastructure division has been awarded
an Indefinite Delivery/Indefinite Quantity (IDIQ) contract to support the Department of
Homeland Security’s (DHS) U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) facilities in
the event of an emergency. KBR is the engineering and construction subsidiary of
Halliburton (NYSE:HAL).
The contract, which is effective immediately, provides for establishing temporary detention
and processing capabilities to augment existing ICE Detention and Removal Operations
(DRO) Program facilities in the event of an emergency influx of immigrants into the U.S.,
or to support the rapid development of new programs. The contingency support contract
provides for planning and, if required, initiation of specific engineering, construction and
logistics support tasks to establish, operate and maintain one or more expansion facilities.
The contract may also provide migrant detention support to other U.S. Government
organizations in the event of an immigration emergency, as well as the development of a
plan to react to a national emergency, such as a natural disaster. In the event of a natural
disaster, the contractor could be tasked with providing housing for ICE personnel
performing law enforcement functions in support of relief efforts.
I know it's easy to center in on the KBR connection on this, but the more important questions to
ask (because KBR is one of the larger construction companies in the U.S. so there isn't much
question on that one) are...
what the heck is an "immigration emergency" and how does it even happen and why the heck
are we spending almost $400 million on such a wild supposition?
It's bizarre - even to me.

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OK, this is something I hesitate doing, because the possibility is NOT something I want some
nut thinking about.....but here goes....
What if there were a series of terrorist attacks not in the US, but in Mexico?
Think about this.... It seems like such an obvious vulnerability... If we can't get our act together
with security, what do you think Mexico is doing?
If there were a compelling enough reason for people to flee north to the US, you'd see the
"immigration emergency" you're looking for....
EDIT: This subject would be an interesting SKUNK WORKS thread.
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This is off-topic, but I think congratulations are in order. This thread has more than 350k views!
That's insane...
Great work Valhall!

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Hmmm.... I keep thinking about this, because I agree with you. What the heck would justify
this, and what do they know that we don't?
My previous post speculated on some massive attack in Mexico that would drive people north,
but I think we can all agree that is still rather highly speculative....
Then, I ran into this:
VIOLENCE IN MEXICO CITY: Riots surround a global summit seeking answers to a

problem that's getting more acute
Violence broke out Thursday as experts and conservationists from around the world
gathered to search for ways to safeguard one of the world's most precious commodities.
A gang of youths, many of them in ski masks, attacked a patrol car with sticks and rocks,
and riot police fired tear gas into the crowd, local media reported. At least a dozen
protesters armed with knives, pipes and Molotov cocktails were arrested in a separate
incident on the first day of the fourth World Water Forum in Mexico City.
...
In the Mexican capital, tomorrow's crisis is already here.
Parts of the metropolis are sinking by as much as a foot a year because of over-
exploitation of aquifers. More than 1 million residents lack water in their homes.
And fights about water are getting increasingly violent, with some experts
warning of a future "water war."
Now, if there is anything that could drive people north, I would think a lack of drinking water
could do the trick...
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There's also a growing problem, unfolding in the trailer parks set up and maintained by FEMA.
Not exactly a detainment camp, but read on...
This is a good report from ABC, I'm thinking of giving it its own thread, whadya think?
abcnews.go.com...
On a bleak stretch of gravelly pasture not far from the airport in Baton Rouge, La., 573
white aluminum trailers stand in rows. The dreary site, home to 3,000 evacuees from
Hurricane Katrina, boasts a utopian name: Renaissance Village.
But life is anything but utopian for those inside the Village, the first and largest trailer park
founded by the Federal Emergency Management Agency in the wake of Hurricane Katrina.
The absence of land-line phones, hospital facilities and a police presence serve as constant
reminders that their status here is temporary.
Magee, like many at the site, is from New Orleans' lower Ninth Ward. She worked in day
care before Katrina, but she is unemployed now; she spends much of her day watching
television in her trailer with her three young children. The oldest, 5-year-old Sapphire, is
one of the hundreds of children who doesn't go to school. Magee said no one explained to
her how to register. Magee says she is trapped in the trailer, out of options. She has no
job, no money and no car, and yet she does not qualify for government assistance. "We
called section 8 to see if they could help — they say you have to be homeless," Magee
said. "I am homeless. This is not mine."
Yet many say that the occupants of Renaissance Village are not so bad off. As the largest
of the temporary housing sites, the Village attracts a lot of attention. T-Mobile has donated
cell phones, a charity called the Virtue Foundation brought $60,000 worth of computers,
and Rosie O'Donnell's For All Kids Foundation donated three trailers to serve as school and
play space for the children.
But O'Donnell's trailers, which arrived in December, have remained locked outside the
gates. FEMA won't let them in, citing liability concerns.
Interesting, no?

Some will say, why can't these folks find jobs. Probably for the same reasons most people can't,
there aren't very many.
But at least they get free buses to spend their federal money at Wally World. That's comforting.
These people aren't alone. There are a lot more like 'em, everywhere from Texas to Missouri to
Florida, and beyond.
Maybe Halliburton can 'help' them learn that work is freedom...
[edit on 18-3-2006 by WyrdeOne]
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WyrdeOne:
Then you'll love this story:
Couple Discovers High Levels Of Formaldehyde In FEMA Trailer
A Bay St. Louis couple has discovered a dangerous problem with their FEMA trailer. And
that problem could have widespread implications to the health of anyone living in one.
Paul and Melondy Stewart say tests show there's formaldehyde inside their trailer, at
levels two times what is considered acceptable by the Environmental Protection Agency.
...
"Exposure to formaldehyde over the long term will cause lung cancer, nose cancer, throat
cancer. Formaldehyde is a carcinogen. It's listed as a carcinogen by the government and
exposure of high levels of it can cause cancer."
More...

I particularly love this part:
He asked FEMA to test his trailer.
When FEMA didn't respond, the Stewarts took matters into their own hands.
What a surprise...
You know, I in no way think there is a plot to "kill" Katrina victims, but when you see dozens of
stories like the ones Valhall, you and I find, it's so easy to see why so many people do.
In the end, it really makes you wonder what the hell is going on.
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I would say that we are already in an immigration emergency.
Millions of illegals have already crossed the border from Mexico.
Hopefully these camps are to detain these illegals (and not us!)
Right now there is NOTHING to deter people from entering our country illegally. Millions have
gotten through. The handful that they do catch are fed, kept in hotels at taxpayer expense, and
sent back to Mexico with no punishment.
Maybe if they know whey will be interred it will deter them from coming here illegally. Maybe
not. Either way something must be done and this sounds like a good start.
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You know, I in no way think there is a plot to "kill" Katrina victims, but when you see dozens of
stories like the ones Valhall, you and I find, it's so easy to see why so many people do.
In the end, it really makes you wonder what the hell is going on.
Yeah, tend to agree with you. Sometimes it does appear that there's a decisive eugenics
agenda, but most of the time it seems quite a lot less sinister than all that. Just straight greed
and oppurtunism.

Why are contractors hiring illegals instead of displaced refugees? Because it's profitable.
Why did the government give them fish instead of teaching them how to fish, when it's been
well established all throughout history that the former is temporary and inefficient, and the
latter is endorsed by this guy!
The thing is..a dependant population is a subservient population.
That's the goal. I think the elite are smart enough to realize that if they kill all the peasants,
there will be nobody to work the fields. Their interest is in keeping people down, and whipped,
and defeated, but they can't very well kill the people who make their beds and their meals and
their appointments and their food.
Not yet anyway. Automation is the single greatest incentive any society has ever had to
eliminate the peasants. That temptation may be calling people..I don't know.
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I think it's sheer incompetence and a lack of caring whether the red tape really is properly
addressing a given problem versus making the appearance some one gives a poop.
But I tend to look at things on a real elementary level.
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Abovetheinfluence posted on 25-3-2006 @ 05:12 PM
Utilize the media tools
To increase the probability of the safety and fair treatment of the refugees, I implore you to
offer your data to the "media whores". In circumstances such as this, the media can be utilized
as a protective tool on behalf of the suffering refugees. The more the government body is
enabled and/or facilitated to conceal the treatment of the refugees from the external world, the
more likely it is they can succeed in unnoticeably mistreating them. The situation is obviously
coemergent with some sort of socio-psychological experiment that is in everyone's best interest
to keep as public as possible. The important thing to keep in mind is that awareness needs to
remain focused enmasse upon the what happens to these countrymen.
Remember to "Manifest Destiny". Allowing your findings to become amplified can make the
difference between appreciable or regrettable developments that continue to unfold for us all.
[edit on 25-3-2006 by Abovetheinfluence]
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NJE777 posted on 7-4-2006 @ 04:05 AM

Well Valhall, I have just given you a way above... you prob get them all the time so its no real
surprise but...
I read this before and just looked at it again...and was so impressed with the first hand account.
And more to the point that you are caring enough to help the people in their time of crisis. It is
so easy to get overwhelmed with everything that is wrong with the world at times but reading
your account for the second time really struck a chord with me. And to be honest, after reading
much of your academic work on conspiracy matters, I had imagined you to be in front of the pc
24/7 but reading this again, I realised that not only do you have a family, you are out there
helping people and that is fantastic!
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Who knew the rubber band was wound so tight, eh?
What are your thoughts, now, Val? I'm curious.
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tfd1411 posted on 16-4-2006 @ 09:51 PM

sending help
good story val im not saying there not doing wrong to a point i have to think someone is not
getting the job done right im a firefighter our county has 16 volunteer fire depts and we sent
trucks and personnell down to help out with what ever needed to be done but to our surprise we
were side lined and parked just like the pic's you showed we could not help out because of the
radio interoperability which we do not have with other dept's since then i have tried to find out
about this and fema is trying to get a radio frequency for what we call first responders and will
give all emergency personnell the ability to talk to each other no matter what state or where
there at so i dont jump to conclusions so fast anymore
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skyscape posted on 12-5-2006 @ 10:17 AM
I was just curious Val -have you gone back to that town in Oklahoma - have the people left?
Has FEMA left?
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clearwater posted on 28-5-2006 @ 07:13 PM
Valhall, I understand what disgusted you.
If 'those people' weren't paranoid psychotics before they went in, they will be by the time they
leave.
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niteboy82 posted on 28-5-2006 @ 07:24 PM

Proposal
This may be the biggest undertaking that I have taken in anything that had to do with life in
general, but I volunteer my free time for this. What would you all want on this subject. I don't
mind interviewing people at the FEMA parks (they're everywhere here) as well as others. I will
see what I can videotape as well, but I will need help somehow uploading everything to the net.
Really, I can help. It's not so pretty down here, I promise.
u2u me.
And if anyone has a clip of the regional director of FEMA endorsing Ray Nagin before the election
was completed on WDSU Channel 6 - New Orleans, I would really appreciate a copy if it could
be uploaded. I am desperately trying to find someone who recorded it.
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caineunholy posted on 8-6-2006 @ 08:16 PM
Thank god I am not an American,

But not much better, English.
A Tony blear kiss ass country!(usa ass)
If a 3 world country had this disaster.
All the rest send help!
But they thought America would not need them to help!
(Not that they would have got it)
They wear left to starve.
Would you not go looking for food?
I bet some of them thought All of America had gone the same way.
So you think after 5 days "hell I am on my own!"
And you wonder why they wear looting?
Haw can America send help to 3 world countries
And not to there own people?

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WheelsRCool posted on 9-6-2006 @ 01:17 PM
Hmm, I think it is kind fo silly to expect an initial camp for such a disaster to run perfectly
smoothly. There's tons of logistics and communications involved. Pretty much all disasters
involve some sort of martial law being established to keep things okay. If people didn't expect
things to be somewhat repressive when arriving at these camps, then I don't know what they
were expecting. You'd have riots and out of control people without regimentation.
One thing about Americans is that they don't like socialism, yet when a disaster happens,
everyone expects socialism from the government. Well socialism requires some enforcement as
well to enact it. Otherwise, people would be robbing food supplies.
As for the government, one basic fact for any disaster situation: DO NOT count on the
government to provide help.
As for the military being rpesent, why wouldn't they be present? When a disaster happens, it's
the military that helps oftentimes. They have to maintain order as well to feed everyone.
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HarlemHottie posted on 10-6-2006 @ 03:37 AM
Originally posted by WheelsRCool

smoothly. There's tons of logistics and communications involved.
This is FEMA, a government agency that's supposed to know what they're doing. I don't believe
they're as stupid as they look. If they didn't know what to do, they should have found people
who did, instead of declining help when it was offered.
Pretty much all disasters involve some sort of martial law being established to keep things okay.
If people didn't expect things to be somewhat repressive when arriving at these camps, then I
don't know what they were expecting.
They would expect the rights afforded to citizens of the United States. Why should the rules of
human decency change when there's a disaster?
everyone expects socialism from the government.
No, they expect a return on the tax-payer dollars they give to a democratic government.
People keep saying that... and I think they're wrong. THAT, my friend, is the point of
government. Otherwise, what good is FEMA? Otherwise, we'd have anarchy, and when someone
broke into your house, you wouldn't be able to call the police.
FEMA's sole duty is to respond to disasters in a way so as not to kill the presumably fortunate
surviors of said disasters.
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Originally posted by niteboy82

I don't mind interviewing people at the FEMA parks (they're everywhere here) as well as others.
I will see what I can videotape as well, but I will need help somehow uploading everything to the
net.
It would be an added bonus if someone from Florida could take a good hard look like this at the
FEMA facilities that provided for the Florida victims of the hurricanes the prior year. It's my
understanding a lot of them are still there and the situation is pretty bleak, making no progress
still in getting these people back into the mainstream of life. They seem to be the forgotten
people.
Anyone live near one of these?
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WheelsRCool posted on 11-6-2006 @ 09:41 PM
Originally posted by HarlemHottie

smoothly. There's tons of logistics and communications involved.
This is FEMA, a government agency that's supposed to know what they're doing. I don't believe
they're as stupid as they look. If they didn't know what to do, they should have found people
who did, instead of declining help when it was offered.
Pretty much all disasters involve some sort of martial law being established to keep things
okay. If people didn't expect things to be somewhat repressive when arriving at these

camps, then I don't know what they were expecting.
They would expect the rights afforded to citizens of the United States. Why should the rules of
human decency change when there's a disaster?
everyone expects socialism from the government.
No, they expect a return on the tax-payer dollars they give to a democratic government.
People keep saying that... and I think they're wrong. THAT, my friend, is the point of
government. Otherwise, what good is FEMA? Otherwise, we'd have anarchy, and when someone
broke into your house, you wouldn't be able to call the police.
FEMA's sole duty is to respond to disasters in a way so as not to kill the presumably fortunate
surviors of said disasters.
The rules have to change somewhat when there's a disaster. It is impossible to distribute food
and medical care without some enforcement, and that enforcement requires some established
rules until things settle down. And no, that is not necessarily the job of the government, at least
not the Federal government. The Federal government's job is international problems mostly,
otherwise it gets to large. The state government is supposed to handle such disasters.
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niteboy82 posted on 11-6-2006 @ 09:45 PM
The rules have to change somewhat when there's a disaster. It is impossible to distribute food
and medical care without some enforcement, and that enforcement requires some established
rules until things settle down. And no, that is not necessarily the job of the government, at least
not the Federal government. The Federal government's job is international problems mostly,
otherwise it gets to large. The state government is supposed to handle such disasters.
When your house is under water for 2 weeks, because of a failed system created by the federal
government, then you can tell me that this is a state issue. Of course, I am sure there would
be whining and crying if you lost our port, and if you lost our oil pipelines...
FEMA handled their job poorly. It has been proven that they at least had an idea of the
outcome, and they did nothing to prepare. Why is it that we knew so well here what could
happen, and the feds didn't? Give me a break.
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seifist posted on 12-6-2006 @ 01:54 AM
Thats the problem, people don't understand the point of FEMA. I agree wholeheartedly that
FEMA did fail miserably, but that isn't the point. Natural Disaster Relief is and has always been a
State/Municipal responsibility. FEMA was set-up in 1979 in order to provide a back-up in case
the local government fail. In the case of Katrina, the local and State governments failed so
disasterously that even if FEMA was managed properly things still would have turned out to be
just as disasterous. If you are looking for someone to blame for this, blame Ms Katrina. If you
REALLY want to blame someone blame the mayor of the "Chocolate City" who ignored reports
that the levy would fail, or the state government whom failed to have a disaster relief plan in
place, despite the fact that their own advisors told them the disaster was not a POSSIBILITY it
was a SURE THING.

copyright & usage
Here's an update on a Texas Town that will never recover from Rita. The bulk of the displaced
residents are in no position to rebuild and their FEMA trailers are not going to be there forever.
my.earthlink.net.../448ce6c0_3421_13345200606121921897195
FEMA has told displaced families it wants its trailers back in March - an impossible deadline
for many, considering those that can afford to rebuild are just now seeing construction
materials delivered to their lawns by overwhelmed contractors.
FEMA hasn't solved anything for these people, it's just a bandaid for now and who knows what
when it's all said and done.
copyright & usage
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Kr0n0s posted on 12-8-2006 @ 06:19 PM

Has anyone ever searched for all of these detainment camps using
the google satellite images tool?
A govt set up camp is pretty easy to spot with the barricks lined up
etc..
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Shar posted on 12-8-2006 @ 06:37 PM
wow, have you been back up there are there anyone in there staying. my thought is it may not
really be for fema but for more of the nwo times when they come and take familys away.
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weirdfan posted on 18-8-2006 @ 11:26 PM
The whole thing sounds to me like SECURITY at work. That's how we have been like ever since
Shrub was elected to power.
Not allow to do this because it will lead to fire, that because it will lead to riot, surrounded by
national guard and state troopers doing god knows what except to intimidate and control entire
populations in a public area (ie no laws to protect them, since they are not on their own
property)...
We could have done better with Mike Moore's ficus tree.
Do you have any media contacts? I could give you some information if you want to take this
story and run with it, it might not make clear the mainstream media, but my god you got pure
gold there for the independent media.
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jlc163 posted on 28-8-2006 @ 01:15 PM
What I remember from back then, with no imput from here: This would have been leisure time,
and we didn't have any. I didn't get online that much.
We ran...and stayed up in a temp. shelter on Southwestern Louisiana University campus in

while my brother and sis-in-law went off to her nanny's. We'd have had to go well to Arkansas
to get a hotel. We left less than 24 hours before it hit, and becuase we to back routes, and not
the main passageways, we were rarely caught in traffic, and had a rather relaxing journey with
many pit stops and food breaks.
1. Red Cross temp. shelters were extremely restricted. You had to check in and out, so they
could keep track of what they were paying for you. Security was all over the place...much of it
campus security (campus security is actually a part of the state troopers, they are real cops, but
their boundaries are restricted to school grounds.) They just assigned a few more pople to the
campus. You got an arm band so that the campus kitchen could feed you. you were told to keep
it on you, though they didn't force you to wear it. The campus was reimbursed.
2. We slept on mattresses on a basketball court. "Lights out " was called at 10. There were 2
locker rooms with showers...and while they were cleaned, they couldn't keep up with the
volume. Most of those who couldn't sleep wandered around the halls, watching news reports.
They didn't have enough volunteers; they couldn't keep up. Some of the "victims of the storm"
like my father volunteered to help, just to keep busy, and to make sure the elderly actually got
beds and blankets. They were rounding up extra mattresses from all over campus, and still
people were pouring in.
3. There was no class distinction. Some pople were well to do. We had some very fancy cars
parked out there that first night, next to junk buckets that you have no clue how they made it
in. This was a complete leveler. You couldn't tell who had money, and you couldn't tell who
would wait until you were on your own and mug you. For the most part, the latter was not
worht worrying about. Those who wanted to steal stayed to rob stores and homes while the
owners were away had stayed. Thoe who could afford to go look for a better shelter (either

through money, friends, business, or church connections left as soon as they could. Still,
someone stayed with my baby brother at all times (the boy's almost as big as me now).
I watched as the storm finally turned, as the weathermen had hoped, only 3 hours before it
made landfall. By that time, if it hadn't turned, the brunt of the storm would have hit Houma,
and my home would have been gone....then the eye would have been driectly over New
Orleans, pulling both water in from the Mississippi and from Lake Pontchartrain, completely
overhwelming the city. As it was, watching the levee break, and watching the water trickle in,
hearing someone go, "My daddy lives x blocks from there; he wouldn't leave," I can remember
thinking "Please God, let's save them, but if you're not going to allow them to be saved, quit
tormenting these people and get it over with." That's when the gap in the levee widened, and all
chances of saving anyone in the lower 9th ward ended. I still feel guilty for that...it makes me
feel like I caused it. Not really reasonable, I know.
We left that shelter, to go home, after 2 days there. Most people would be out of that shelter
within a week. They'd either be placed in camps, or they'd move to closer temp. shelters....like
in my hometown: Houma....less than an hour from New Orleans.
Communication was crap for about 2 weeks or more. Power was out in some parts of Houma for
3 weeks, and we had barely any damage from Katrina...as Entergy services the whole region,
and power source is closer to N.O. than it should be. Downtown Houma ran completely off it's
own power within a day or 2. Nothing but Analogue phones could call out from the whole New
Orleans area. During the early part of that week, the only reliable source of information was the
radio stations.
Some things the day the Hurricane hit, and a few days afterward, things I can't remember in
the order it happened:
One Parish President annexed his parish into another country on the hopes that it would get the
govenrment down there quicker. He debassed himself for his people. Then there were the calls
from those who were stuck in their attics (most we never got out), on top of their roofs, giving
their addresses over the air, jsut to be pulled out.
Some idiot started a rumor that people were walking out of new Oreans and were comming with
whatever weapons they could find, to take what they could from those who were more
fortunate. People were stealing generators from people's yards, so people would bring them into
their garage, and then the whole family would die from carbon monoxide poisoning.
Rumors got out about the facts of what had happened in the Superdome, and rumor was that
they were being shipped all throughout Louisiana (pissed my father off because people didn't
volunteer for fear of being beaten and raped...most of that type were not shipped here. We got
their children. 2 yesr old kids who couldn't tell you what their mama's name was.)
Our Shelters:
Our shelters were temporary shelters. The Houma Civic Center had our own people who lived in
'da boon docks of the parish, and people who wanted to get back into New Orleans but couldn't
find closer shelter. Nicholls State University had only the latter. The Lions Club was a private
shelter in Gray had the families of the New Orleans police, and the police themselves, when
they cound't take anymore (they were there because they'd be close to Troop C state police,
and could feel more useful if they were close to their line of work). (Not sure htis is true: It was
kind of funny when someone had called them to attention and asked for everone who had a gun
on them to raise their hands. Almost every adult hand went up.) All 3 were mattresses on the
floor of a giant room, with inadequate showering facilites. Cops were everywhere.
In one place, since Red Cross couldn't/wouldn't take volunteered food help, etc., they kicked the
Red Cross out, and took care of their own. In our area they were more relaxed, so we had a lot
of volunteers, some of the volunteer work became school work. The local storesdonated meat
that they couldn't keep fresh. Others volunteered time to cook the food.
By the time Rita hit, we still had Katrina victims in our temporary shelters. Local schools and the
Houma Civic center took in the southern end of the parish when the levees broke...we tried to
move as many of the NO victims to NSU at that point.
Back to the kids we got: Many needed counseling, severely. They'd jsut start staring at the wall
and wouldn't communicate. The girls would at least cry, but the boys wouldn't let go. I'm quite
sure many never got help; there wern't enough counselors. I'm sure some of the kids are still in
foster homes because the can't be placed, being the only survivors of a family. They were
callign for foster homes like crazy. They didn't want unsupervised children in the temporary
shelters...too easy for one to go missing.
You couldn't get to your money, in most cases, for several weeks becuase the records were in
New Orleans, under water. Especially with Hibernia (now Capitol One). Still, we took care of
ours, either with time (like my father) or money (like I had to, since I was needed to keep an
eye on my baby brother or Grandma).
Wow, that was a bit more than I thought I would say....
My point was that most of these shelters, even where there was more freedom to interact, were
severely inadequate and had law enforcement of some sort all over the place. These were never
meant to be long term, and we got people into jobs and out of there as soon as we could. The
elderly and those who refused to work to get back on their own two feet were sent to more
permanant shelters, some no better than the temporary shelters.
[edit on 28-8-2006 by jlc163]
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admiralcia posted on 5-10-2006 @ 09:09 AM
FEMA Detainment Camp
I am constantly amazed that during Katrina, all we heard was how the government wasn't doing
enough to help the "victims", even that idiot Mayor Nagan taking the Lord's name in vain on TV.
When the guvment finally did get it's act together and start implementing"the Plan", everyone
started criticizing the response. Typical of the welfare state citizens and others who believe it is
government's responsibility to meet all the needs we haven't prepared for ourselves. Kinda
removes any personal responsibility for failed lives doesn't it?
I saw one post where the writer said something like the rich etc. had gotten themselves out, but
the poor folks needed help. Well, I don't think those who got out were necessarily rich. All they
really were was informed, motivated, and prepared. Even in today's mostly urbanized America,
there are still many people who take responsibility for themselves and do not wait for the
government to take care of everything for them.
I saw many people standing at the dome in NO who appeard able-bodied who were waiting for
someone to come rescue them. Personally, if I was there and didn't have an Escalade to drive
out, I would have WALKED out. No one Forced anyone to go there and stay there. There were
several days of warnings that Katrina would be this bad. Why were these people still there
anyway?
As for what happened at Falls Creek( a beautiful area to be in), if you expect the government to
respond, then don't be surprised at the level of "control" encountered. Government agencies
can only respond in such a manner. They are primarily concerned with the overall safety,
security, and order of things. In such a massive response, some things must be overlooked.I
know this nice lady and her family meant well, but you really can't let unexpected visits occur
under such conditions.
If you don't want to be herded into the "camps" take it upon yourselves to be prepared to
survive on your own. That's your only option.
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YIAWETA posted on 5-10-2006 @ 09:25 AM
admiral, That's the message!...we all heard it load and clear. 'You're on your own.' The agency
set up to deal with disasters has over 36,000 employees and only 3,600 assigned to disaster
relief. What do the other 32,400 do?...FEMA in reality stands for the Federal Extermination of
Middle-class America.
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Fiverz posted on 5-10-2006 @ 10:12 AM
Wow I just read through most of this thread today (10/5) and I have to say I'm shocked and
appalled at some of the actions by both the government as well as some of the posters here. I
will post later with some specific responses when I have the time.
Two things that jump out at me.
1) Haliburton needed $400 million for 6,700 beds?!?! I know that includes support, etc ... but
my family had lived on less than half of that per person figure of $59,700 per year for our entire
lives. If I can see Red Cross DONATING disaster relief in earthquakes, why does it take
Haliburton $400 million to create a camp? Complete and utter BS. Heck, screw all the support
and the bed ... just give me the $59K and I'll live for 5 years better than I could in any camp for
any length of time. And I could find a job and get out of the mess I'm in instead of being stuck
under near-martial law.
2) People who claim that these camps necessitate controls and law enforcement, I don't
disagree. But have you been to these camps? Have you had family members in these camps? I
have had the latter. My uncle lost his home and even with our family's assistance needed to
stay in a few camps a few weeks. He was a Gulf War vet and his exact words were "Iraq was a
cakewalk compared with the necessary levels of survival skills and lack of freedoms in these
camps." I don't think it's fair to judge what really is or isn't going on down there when you don't
have at the very LEAST personal knowledge of what people are experiencing down there. Even
my uncle's testimony alone doesn't give me the entire picture of what it's really like. Do some
research people before you go posting your opinions. Posting an opinion on a matter that you
don't know the facts about is no better than posting something you fabricate or posting
something that is knowingly false.
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delldesktop5566 posted on 11-10-2006 @ 11:00 AM
im a new user to this site i actually only made my account after i saw this post,unreal.yet
wittnessed. Who knows how they will treat guest in the future that question the way they run it.
Their are hundreds of camps being bulid around the coutry,most fit fot at least 20,000 each.
Some can hold up to 2million-if you like this infomation check this out-
www.mindfully.org...
sry i will post the link i was looking for later icant find it.Bu that one s similar
the one i ws looking is apersonal experiance from a person trying to find out what they are for,
many times threatened with arest but guard who could barley speak english.
copyright & usage
Originally posted by Fiverz

My uncle lost his home and even with our family's assistance needed to stay in a few camps a
few weeks.
Hi Fiverz... why did your uncle need to stay in these camps?
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TheTraveler posted on 19-10-2006 @ 08:29 AM

I agree with admiralcia.
Too many people think the government should take care of all their needs. I saw nothing in
Valhall's story to be unusual given today's "sue" happy America and typical bureaucratic red
tape. Of course they're (government) going to exercise typically excess control to minimize any
chances of sparking a lawsuit. I didn't read anywhere that people were being rounded up to
stay there. Maybe I missed that, but I don't think so. If you volunteer to go you play by their
rules. I'm not pro-government, quite the opposite, but I'm ex-military and I know how screwed
up government policies can be.
The real people responsible for the aftermath disaster are Mayor Nagan first and foremost, then
the Governor. Nagan should have been leading during the crisis instead of pointing his finger at
everyone else but himself. To the people who picked up and left before or after the hurricane, I
applaud you. Those who didn't, stop blaming everyone else. I understand some were physically
unable to move on their own. It's those who are physically able to leave that stood around
DEMANDING the government rescue them. Wandering around the Silver Dome like cattle. I
remember watching the live coverage and turning to my wife and asking her, "Why don't they
start walking?" I remember thinking how the rest of the world must be thinking how lazy
americans are if the won't get up and walk away. When the Israeli bombing of Lebannon
started, those people got up and started leaving. They didn't wait for the government to rescue
them! They took responsibility for their own life! I fear too many americans don't take
responsibility for their lives anymore. Sorry about the rant.
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dragongirl724 posted on 22-10-2006 @ 08:35 PM
FEMA CAMP VIDEO (WITH GAS CHAMBERS, WATCH TOWER, BARBED WIRE, ETC)
TO ANYONE WHO DOUBTS VAL'S POSTING CLICK HERE FOR ANOTHER FEMA CAMP
VIDEO!!!!!!!!!!!!! (WITH GAS CHAMBERS, WATCH TOWER, CAMERAS, BLACK
HELICOPTERS, BARBED WIRE & ELECTRIC TURNSTILE ENTRANCES) YOU CAN'T DENY
IT!!!!!!!!!!!!
video.google.com...
"AGA GAS Inc. Sells mostly asphyxiation type gases...you can verify this by doing a search via
dogpile for AGA GAS Inc. and the look for web site MDS and they will list the gases."

****CONCENTRATION/DETENTION CAMP OR "AMTRAK REPAIR STATION"??? YOU DECIDE!!

***
-DG724
copyright & usage
ewan posted on 22-10-2006 @ 09:22 PM
just watched the video -
inital thoughts.
Helicopter markings - not enough of them, i only saw one on the cables, which would more
likely be there for a crane / cherry-picker operating at near the wires beside the antenna.
Wind socks for helicopter? doubt it, theres no other markings for a landing pad, and the deck
looks like theres lots of loose chippings about, not good for helicopter engines. Looks a fairly
dangerous area to operate a helicopter into. No red anti-collision light on top of antenna masts,
and lots of obstructions. Possibly the worst helipad in the world.
Possibile other reason? Hazmat, any plant or storage facillity that stores dangerous chemicals or
"hot" cargos will have wind-socks so fire crews know the direction of the prevailing wind during
incidents, also not the loudspeaker or siren facing outwards, suggesting hazardous materials
being kept on site.
Fences - disagree with the barbed wire comment, the wire was facing both sides, making fairly
secure.
Military equipment, nothing new has been there for a while, suggests use a long while back, but
nothing recent.
The antennas were civilian use VHF, probably railroad.
Massive boillers? massive sheds, the two go together. I would suggest that the building has
been used to store something recently.
I think a bigger "smoking gun" would have been hard access to the site, or a hospital, or toilet
facilites being built there.

I think so far this one is a non-starter in my eyes
edit for spulling
[edit on 22-10-2006 by ewan]
copyright & usage
ewan posted on 22-10-2006 @ 09:38 PM
thats twisting the truth a little, most gases other than oxygen are asphyxiation type gases.
The are company based in Sweeden who do a great deal of industrial work, i belive they have
just merged with BOC (one of the biggest gas comps in the world) to form "The Linde Group".
If the makers of the film wanted to prove what is in the tanks there would be a hazchem sign
beside them, (a fact i would imagine they would be fully aware off). It could even be a high
pressure air line for some industrial process.
Did the makers of the film ever actually prove who the site belonged too or did i miss that?
copyright & usage
TheTraveler posted on 23-10-2006 @ 01:37 PM

When I worked for a pevious employer we bought our welding gas from AGA. Argon, oxygen &
acetylene. They also supply area healthcare facilities with medical grade oxygen and nitrogen.
copyright & usage
Fiverz posted on 24-10-2006 @ 12:50 PM

My uncle lost his home and even with our family's assistance needed to stay in a few
camps a few weeks.
He was in a situation where he was in the middle of relocating and the hurricane ended up
(obviously) screwing up the sale of his home. It wasn't necessary for him to remain there
(family members including myself offered to let him stay with us) but he had an attatchment to
the area and wanted to deal with the insurance company and eventual move as soon as
possible in person. Plus being a vet, he thought nothing of living for awhile in a supposed "safe
haven" as described by FEMA. His experience was anything but what was promised to him.
copyright & usage

clifylq posted on 30-10-2006 @ 08:25 PM
KATRINA THE UGLY TRUTH
THE US GOVERNMENT EVICTION OF 'n-word'S/WHITE TRASH
KATRINA THE MAN MADE STORM
THE PLAN FOR TREACHERY IS SIMPLE. Residents of New Orleans fled for their life. They
obviously did not take along in a plastic bag the deed to their property. So now out-of-town and
out-of-work, they do not have the funds to pay their property tax nor do they have their
property identification code and number. Sixty six per cent of the population of New Orleans
have been blacks, many impoverished, together with a sizeable number of poor whites,
So it will be simple for land swindlers like Halliburton and their gang of pirates to grab lots of
land from the descendants of slaves or white indentured servants, bull-doze away the hurricane-
wrecked houses, and build hotels and other structures to accompany a someday to be newly-
enlarged whorehouse district in New Orleans.
disc.server.com...
Cliff Lindquist
Blogs:
Awakening of America
clifylq.livejournal.com...
The Most Dangerous Website/BLOG in America
supportbordercontrols.blogspot.com...
copyright & usage


My uncle lost his home and even with our family's assistance needed to stay in a
few camps a few weeks.
It wasn't necessary for him to remain there (family members including myself offered to let him
stay with us)
Thank you for helping me to prove the point I have been trying to make all along this LONG
thread!
As first you said he "needed" to stay there.
Upon further examination we find that "it wasn't necessary" for him to stay there.
He chose to stay there. Just like all the other people (with the few exceptions of people in
hospitals and nursing homes who could not walk on their own.)
Everyone had the same warning to leave well in advance. Those who chose not to should not
complain about the services (or lack of services) that were available after the disaster.
copyright & usage
theconspiracyisherenow posted on 19-12-2006 @ 03:04 PM

i was in hurricane katrina. and my parents which are 50 and 60 are living in a trailer were you
have to have no criminal record to get into the trailer park. but in the trailer park most of the
people living in them were on drugs.
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Jessicamsa posted on 19-12-2006 @ 06:24 PM
As posted about before, those who were able bodied and tried to walk out were fired at by
police. The bridge leading to the nearby town was blocked off by police and those approaching
the bridge were shot at. Police even stole/confiscated water and food from the people who were
setting up camps, trying to survive.
Plus, those who were there were already suffering from dehydration. Walking miles to another
town in 80 to 100 degree heat would just dehydrate them faster.
So long as the government sends aid to other countries, there is no excuse for it to allow its
citizens to slowly dehydrate to death.
copyright & usage
whitewave posted on 19-12-2006 @ 08:01 PM
I live about an hour from Davis, Okla. Think I'll swing out that way over the holiday weekend
and see what's up now that Katrina is over.
We had the same thing back in the 70's with the Vietnamese "boat people" that got
"distributed" throughout the U.S. They were detained, deloused, checked out and "seeded"
throughout Oklahoma (and other places). For the first few days after one family moved 2 doors
down from us, we'd come home after school and find my mother's breeder chow (she raised
chow chow dogs) staked out in the neighbor's yard with a bonfire going and a big kettle on a
tripod. The neighbor said, "dog fat enough. we eat now." Took a few days to get her to
understand that we don't eat our dogs here. So you see, there's more to keeping detainees/
refugees in a secure location than just nefarious intentions. If any of you have ever been to New
Orleans you'd admit that it's a different culture down there. As far as I know, they don't eat
dogs but a bit of inculturation may be in order. (They do suck shrimp heads after all)

copyright & usage
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<< 24 25 26 27 >>


As posted about before, those who were able bodied and tried to walk out were fired at by
police. The bridge leading to the nearby town was blocked off by police and those approaching
the bridge were shot at.
Please post your source for this statement.
Even if this is true, and I am skeptical that it id until I see the source, NO ONE was prevented
from leaving BEFORE the hurricane hit. They were activlely encouraged to leave by local and
state officials.
Those who CHOSE to stay behind suffered for their mistake.
copyright & usage
Jessicamsa posted on 21-12-2006 @ 09:46 AM

As posted about before, those who were able bodied and tried to walk out were fired at
by police. The bridge leading to the nearby town was blocked off by police and those
approaching the bridge were shot at.
Please post your source for this statement.
Even if this is true, and I am skeptical that it id until I see the source, NO ONE was prevented
from leaving BEFORE the hurricane hit. They were activlely encouraged to leave by local and
state officials.
Those who CHOSE to stay behind suffered for their mistake.

www.cadenhead.org...
www.cbsnews.com...
www.cnn.com...
en.wikipedia.org...
www.google.com...
It's there on the internet for anyone who really wanted to know to just google the information.
Those who did try to leave in cars ended up stranded in their cars on the interstate. Many of
those who went to the convention center and S.D. didn't have transportation. Had the
government bussed them out before instead of after then many of those mothers who had their
babies dehydrate to death in their arms while waiting for PROMISED help to arrive. It should not
take so long for the government to air drop basic supplies within its own country. Canada got
there much quicker. And the news media was able to get around on foot, so why wasn't FEMA?
If they are not going to do the jobs for which they are paid then maybe the jobs should go to
other people who are willing to work the jobs and could also use the fat paychecks.
I am sure hindsight the people who went to the S.D. and convention center at the
encouragement of the government wish they had walked out of town. However, they had no
money for hotel rooms. There were no emergency shelters that they knew of set up outside of
town. Most people are like sheep and blindly follow the government leaders. They looked to
their own government leaders for what to do and were directed to the S.D. and convention
center. Hopefully, some of the sheep were shaken awake after this and will think for
themselves. I highly doubt it though. Time will tell.
copyright & usage

A Doctor I know here in Oklahoma loaded up his car with bottled water to hand out to Katrina
victims. He drove all the way down to New Orleans to offer much needed water and his skills as
a physician. He found a large group of displaced persons "camping" out in the open, pulled
over, opened his car and began offering bottled water to the "campers". He said that several
asked him if he had any sodas. He told them that he did not have sodas but had a car full of
bottled water. He became disgusted when he saw these obviously needy people throw his
bottles of water on the ground and grumble about the lack of sodas. At that point he got in his
car and drove back to Oklahoma.
While there may have been a less than bed-n-breakfast atmosphere in the accommodations
(funded by taxpayers and out of pocket charitable people such as Val), there WERE
accommodations for the victims of this disaster.
Most decent people are apalled to think that their fellow man would be subjected to the
indignities enforced in a survival situation such as we saw with Katrina. Please keep in mind
what kind of fellow man one is dealing with. I'm not saying that EVERYONE in that disaster-
stricken area was the sort of person that requires close scrutiny and rigid regulation but N.O.
was known as "sodom and gomorrha" even before Katrina hit. People who have just survived a
flood and are homeless, hungry, without transportation or even water and yet would reject help
because it's not the type of handout they're accustomed to getting don't deserve help.
I don't know what went on at Falls Creek and have only Vals interpretation of what she suspects
was going on but I know the people of Oklahoma have proven themselves a generous,
compassionate and helpful people to their neighbors in need in times of crisis.
When the Murrah Building was bombed, my mother and I made sandwiches for the rescue
workers and gathered supplies that FEMA was asking Oklahomans to donate. I thought it
curious that a federal emergency management agency wouldn't HAVE blankets, candles, etc.
that they were asking us to donate but we brought them some anyway. So many helpful people
were pouring in that martial law was declared so that the emergency workers could do their
jobs unimpeded. Many cried "foul" and "conspiracy" but as it turned out, there were no
survivors to save or help so our well-intentioned efforts weren't needed.
The point to all this being that not everything is a conspiracy of nefarious plots within plots.
Sometimes it's just an overblown, ill-managed beaurocracy muddling through the best it can.
Personally, I'm trained in how to handle quite a few bizarre situations that come up so rarely
that when they do, I, as the "expert" forget what the training manual said was the way to
handle it and just jump in and do what looks like it might work in the situation. Large scale
operations do much the same thing.
MAYBE FEMA was inept. MAYBE their plans for "detainees" (we called them "guests") were not
noble. MAYBE our government is bent on genocidal intent. MAYBE the sky will fall tomorrow.
Let's all take a deep breath and say Maybe. Maybe not.
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Jessicamsa posted on 23-12-2006 @ 09:03 AM
Originally posted by whitewave

A Doctor I know here in Oklahoma loaded up his car with bottled water to hand out to Katrina
victims. He drove all the way down to New Orleans to offer much needed water and his skills as
a physician. He found a large group of displaced persons "camping" out in the open, pulled over,
opened his car and began offering bottled water to the "campers". He said that several asked
him if he had any sodas. He told them that he did not have sodas but had a car full of bottled
water. He became disgusted when he saw these obviously needy people throw his bottles of
water on the ground and grumble about the lack of sodas. At that point he got in his car and
drove back to Oklahoma.
I know first hand that a lot of these welfare types behave this way. I was attending a welfare
workshop and the members were expected to bring stuff like chips and drinks. I bought a bunch
of bottled water, celery, carrot sticks, apples, etc (you know, healthy stuff). What did the others
do? They complained about the food and then proceeded to open up and pour out the new
bottles of water and used them as cups to pour soda into right in front of me. That was the last
time I brought food or drinks to that place. While I was there, I was also the only person who
didn't smoke. The others would brag about getting high or drunk the previous weekend. I found
them quite disgusting. I ended up having to do all of the work there because they would be
smoking or doing fun stuff instead of working.
There were lots of innocent children stranded in New Orleans. It's not right to penalize them
and leave them to dehydrate to death. The children did not have basic necessities met and
many died needlessly.
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whitewave posted on 25-12-2006 @ 12:25 AM
In the days following Katrina when horror stories and national embarassments were pouring out
of the astrodome, an encouraging story was reported on the nightly news. It was about a small
boy ( 7 years old as I recall) who was left stranded and in charge of 5 YOUNGER relatives. He
quickly realized his situation and WALKED those kids out of N.O. No food, no water, no
transportation, no protection from child victimizers. Those willing to help themselves and their
fellows (no matter what age, color, social stature, etc.) will always be welcome to whatever help
I can give or muster on their behalf. Those kids were true heroes and rightfully put to shame
their elders who raped, looted, whined and waited for someone else to take care of them. Those
kids had every right to expect someone else to take care of them but when it wasn't
forthcoming, they exhibited the best qualities of humanity (and American self-reliance).
And a child shall lead them....
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Murky posted on 30-10-2007 @ 11:51 AM

I have friends and family in New Orleans. I grew up in the New Orleans metropolitan area.
Because of the god-awful crooked political atmosphere in that state which allowed my wife's
family to get by with destroying my small business because we wouldn't let them run our lives,
my wife and I no longer live there, and thank God were not there for Katrina.
But I have weathered out Betsy, Hilda and Camille. Betsy and Camille were arguably as bad or
worse than Katrina - just not as hyped by the press. Back then, we didn't have FEMA, we had
local Civil Defense agencies, the US Army Office of Civil Defense, the state National Guard and
local government to respond to massive destruction from hurricanes.
Upshot? I think we coped better despite using civil defense plans designed for nuclear war, not
for hurricanes (since then, I have spoken to national authorities on climatology and named
storms who say that the energy output and destructive power of the average hurricane dwarfs
what would be available from any but the absolute worst nuclear exchange - the fallout that
would kill most of the people after a nuclear war, not the blast and heat). Back then, in
Louisiana it was not unlike it was in Mississippi during Katrina (where they said "you loot, we
shoot" and everyone had a major incentive NOT to be a**holes).
What real preparation did the local government people make for Katrina? Did New Orleans
mayor Ray Nagin make a real effort to evacuate the poor of New Orleans prior to the storm? He
had the authority to requisition public transport, school buses, Greyhound buses, to ask for the
state National Guard to help with evacuations, to use prison transport - and prisoners, for that
matter, to help with sandbagging and levee maintenance - what, exactly, did Ray Nagin DO?
Damn little, from what I can see, except issue endless press releases blaming Bush long
BEFORE Katrina made landfall in Louisiana.
Ray Nagin did not do ANYTHING for the people of New Orleans except offer them up as human
sacrifices to the national Democratic Party. If he had just done his JOB, many lives would have
been saved. Look at what prior mayors, like Vic Schiro during Betsy and Hilda and Moon
Landrieu under Camille did for their people during hurricanes - they didn't disappear into rooms
at the Hyatt Regency for the storm, they were at city/parish emergency operating centers
directing life-saving activity and protecting their citizens.
Admittedly FEMA was clueless in the lead-up, during the storm, and long afterwards - my son
and grandson were left without a place to stay, had to wait months for people from Kentucky (!)
to come down and prepare a trailer which sat waiting unused for them, then were turned out of
that trailer months before their previous home was ready to live in. There's a good argument for
FEMA to be completely disbanded and the prior state/local/federal Civil Defense organization

restored - THAT worked. It may have been just as politicized as FEMA (though I can't see how)
but it worked one HELL of a lot better.
Of course, in the '60s and '70s, when hurricanes and floods threatened, we all turned out to
help with things like sandbagging levees and other work - for free, because it was OUR homes
being threatened. We wouldn't have dreamed of sitting on our butts cursing out the President
(whether it was Johnson or Nixon) and waiting for someone else to do for us. WE DID FOR
OURSELVES.
I also must agree with Catherder's remarks about the "suehappy" society. Because our society
has been Sharptonized to such a large extent, every bit of emergency aid must be standardized
so that no outside hustler can come in and say "Look, you poor people are eating Dollar General
PopTarts some woman brought in from California, and over there in the next refuge, where the
people are another color, THEY have KELLOGG'S PopTarts.
Blame the politics of envy.
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Originally posted by Murky
I also must agree with Catherder's remarks about the "suehappy" society. Because our society
has been Sharptonized to such a large extent, every bit of emergency aid must be standardized
so that no outside hustler can come in and say "Look, you poor people are eating Dollar General
PopTarts some woman brought in from California, and over there in the next refuge, where the
people are another color, THEY have KELLOGG'S PopTarts.
Blame the politics of envy.
Well, my point would be that your personal assumption that people think this way or will act
this way is not a valid reason to treat people as if they are about to act this way.
You're out of line to assume you know other people's intent and then treat them in a certain
fashion based on your personal speculations.

That's my opinion.
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Murky posted on 30-10-2007 @ 12:20 PM
reply to post by whitewave
You don't know jack about your subject matter. New Orleanians do NOT such shrimp heads. We
such CRAWFISH heads, because that's where all the good fat is on that animal after it's boiled.
Thanks for making the liberal name-callers' point for them.
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HuntaXX posted on 12-11-2007 @ 02:18 PM
You see refugees and they see test subjects
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WeAreOne posted on 12-11-2007 @ 08:44 PM
I don’t know if this is off topic but I was watching a TV show over here in the UK called top gear
which is about cars.
Basically the short of it is that the three presenters of the show went over to America bought a
second hand car each and preceded to drive across America with the journey ending in New
Orleans.
This took place just after hurricane Katrina and the reason I tell you this is because at the end
of the journey they donated the three cars to people who had lost their stuff in the hurricane.
The crazy thing was that when they got back to England they received a letter from the lawyers
of one of the said people who were actually going to sue them because one of the cars was a
year 89 camaro rather then the year 90 model.
See link- www.skinz.org...
I would love one of these for free.
I found it incredible that someone who had just been given a free car would sue over such a
petty thing, completely insane. I would of been happy just receive a vehicle that enabled me to
get out of there.
I know not all of the victims were bad people and I feel truly sorry for the innocent children that
were caught up in this disaster but I was truly staggered by this display of ungratefulness and it
left a bad taste in my mouth, some people are horrible.
Peace.
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reply to post by Murky
Gettin' mighty worked up over them "shrimp" heads, pardner. I used to catch crawdads in the
creek and eat them. They were the "poor man's shrimp". In case you joined too late to have
read the opening post, it was about fema detention camps, not shellfish.
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2005-06-09 I Just Got Back From A FEMA Detainment Camp

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I just got back from a FEMA Detainment Camp - Above Top Secret Conspiracy Community

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Important Update To This Story!

I just got back from a FEMA Detainment Camp

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/fema.html (1 of 33)4/10/2008 2:44:23 AM

I just got back from a FEMA Detainment Camp

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/fema.html (2 of 33)4/10/2008 2:44:23 AM

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/fema.html (3 of 33)4/10/2008 2:44:23 AM

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/fema.html (4 of 33)4/10/2008 2:44:23 AM

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/fema.html (5 of 33)4/10/2008 2:44:23 AM

"Can I help you, ma'am?"

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/fema.html (7 of 33)4/10/2008 2:44:23 AM

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/fema.html (8 of 33)4/10/2008 2:44:23 AM

Excuse me? I asked incredulously.

it could cause a riot.

My son looks at me and mumbles "Welcome to Krakow."

It could cause a riot."

My mother, in her sweet, soft voice says, "Quarter them?"

"No ma'am. FEMA said no...

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/fema.html (10 of 33)4/10/2008 2:44:23 AM

First - just another OHP car...

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/fema.html (11 of 33)4/10/2008 2:44:23 AM

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/fema.html (12 of 33)4/10/2008 2:44:23 AM

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/fema.html (13 of 33)4/10/2008 2:44:23 AM

"Can we help you?"

I explained to them what we were doing.

I just stared at them.

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/fema.html (15 of 33)4/10/2008 2:44:23 AM

And a dorm room:

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/fema.html (16 of 33)4/10/2008 2:44:23 AM

Just another OHP car...

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/fema.html (17 of 33)4/10/2008 2:44:23 AM

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/fema.html (18 of 33)4/10/2008 2:44:23 AM

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/fema.html (19 of 33)4/10/2008 2:44:23 AM

Three firetrucks parked along the river.

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/fema.html (20 of 33)4/10/2008 2:44:23 AM

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/fema.html (21 of 33)4/10/2008 2:44:23 AM

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/fema.html (22 of 33)4/10/2008 2:44:23 AM

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/fema.html (23 of 33)4/10/2008 2:44:23 AM

Main gate completely blocked by OHP vehicles as we approach:

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/fema.html (24 of 33)4/10/2008 2:44:23 AM

More OHP vehicles parked at the rear gate as we pass by:

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/fema.html (25 of 33)4/10/2008 2:44:23 AM

[edit on 9-6-2005 by Valhall]

This should be an ATSNN story IMHO.

be the camps medical staff.

How close is the nearest medical facility to this camp?

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/fema.html (27 of 33)4/10/2008 2:44:23 AM

wow, valhall. i'm impressed with your whole family!

quote: Originally posted by Valhall

You might consider forwarding to NPR news.

I have many friends in Europe following the aftermath of Katerina story.

Would you mind if I forward a link?

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/fema.html (28 of 33)4/10/2008 2:44:23 AM

We apologize for this advertising

Times are really changing over in the US...

[edit on 6-9-2005 by CatHerder]

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/fema.html (31 of 33)4/10/2008 2:44:23 AM

No comments on my prisoner question?

Nice post Vall!!!

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/fema.html (32 of 33)4/10/2008 2:44:23 AM

What will happen after?

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/fema.html (33 of 33)4/10/2008 2:44:23 AM