Contents Commented [OM1]: Writer: Including TOC for the

chapter so you have a sense of how it is organized.

History ......................................................................................................................................... 2
Trend, Examples, Value Created ................................................................................................ 5
The Linux Foundation .............................................................................................................. 5
The HyperLedger Project & IBM ............................................................................................. 5
Microsoft Blockchain on Azure ................................................................................................ 6
AWS Blockchain Templates .................................................................................................... 6
SAP Cloud Platform Blockchain .............................................................................................. 7
Oracle ...................................................................................................................................... 7
VMWare ................................................................................................................................. 46
Deloitte ................................................................................................................................... 46
John Hancocock .................................................................................................................... 46
GuardTime and Verizon ........................................................................................................ 78
Disney and DragonChain ...................................................................................................... 78
Kaleido ................................................................................................................................... 79
R3........................................................................................................................................... 79
HPE R3 .................................................................................................................................. 79
NuID ....................................................................................................................................... 79
BLOQ ..................................................................................................................................... 79
FACTOM ................................................................................................................................ 80
BLOCKSTREAM ................................................................................................................... 80
PAYSTAND ........................................................................................................................... 80
TZERO ................................................................................................................................... 80
SKUCHAIN ............................................................................................................................ 80
SYMBIONT ............................................................................................................................ 81
LEEWAYHERTZ .................................................................................................................... 81
VIRONIT ................................................................................................................................ 81
ALTOROS .............................................................................................................................. 81
APPINVENTIV ....................................................................................................................... 82
BLOCKAPPS ......................................................................................................................... 82
FLUENCE .............................................................................................................................. 82
CRYPTOWERK ..................................................................................................................... 82
 CLOVYR ................................................................................................................................ 82
KALEIDO ............................................................................................................................... 83
INNOMINDS .......................................................................................................................... 83
BitSE ...................................................................................................................................... 83
Blocko .................................................................................................................................... 83
Blockstream ........................................................................................................................... 83
PayStand ............................................................................................................................... 83
Peer Ledger ........................................................................................................................... 84
How a startup can capture this value........................................................................................ 84
How established enterprises can capture this value ................................................................ 84
Conclusion ................................................................................................................................. 84

Blockchain as a Service (BaaS) Commented [OM2]: Writer: All needs to be re-written,

quoted, sources sited. All of the materials are cut and
pasted and not my work.
History
Commented [OM3]: https://www.investopedia.com/ter
BaaS is all about providing an ecosystem for other companies to thrive and utilize blockchain ms/b/blockchainasaservice-baas.asp
technology; development platforms provide blockchain technology stack to other organizations;
https://builtin.com/blockchain/blockchain-as-a-service-
network fee charge: A business model where network fee is charged from the end users or other companies
entities in the blockchain. For example, Orcale, IBM, VMWare, Amazon.
https://medium.com/coinmonks/here-comes-
blockchain-as-a-service-8cf187cc828f
Blockchain as a Service (BaaS) is an offering that allows customers to leverage cloud-based solutions to
https://medium.com/swlh/blockchain-as-a-service-
build, host and use their own blockchain apps, smart contracts and functions on the blockchain while platforms-5f8c97850d92
the cloud-based service provider manages all the necessary tasks and activities to keep the
https://www.datamation.com/data-center/top-10-
infrastructure agile and operational. It is an interesting development in the blockchain ecosystem that is blockchain-as-a-service-providers.html
indirectly aiding the blockchain adoption across businesses. It is based on, and works similar to, the
https://hackernoon.com/why-blockchain-as-a-service-
concept of Software As A Service (SaaS) model. solutions-arent-blockchains-8d588b1f35ce
BREAKING DOWN Blockchain-as-a-Service (BaaS)
Individuals and businesses are increasingly willing to adapt to blockchain technology. However, the Commented [OM4]: Writer please use this material and
your research to write this section.
technical complexities and operational overhead involved in creating, configuring, and operating the
blockchain, and maintaining its infrastructure, often act as deterrents to its mass adoption. Along with Commented [OM5]: https://www.investopedia.com/ter
ms/b/blockchainasaservice-baas.asp
leading tech giants, many startups are now offering a viable solution to this problem through the
Blockchain-as-a-Service (BaaS) model. (See also, All About Amazon's New Blockchain Service.)
How Does BaaS Work?
BaaS is when an external service provider sets up all the necessary “blockchain technology and
infrastructure” for a customer for a fee. By paying for BaaS, a client pays the BaaS provider to set up and
maintain blockchain connected nodes on their behalf. A BaaS provider handles the complex back-end for
the client and their business.
The BaaS operator takes care of keeping all the important blockchain-related artifacts and the
infrastructure up and running. It also includes support activities like bandwidth management, suitable
allocation of resources, hosting requirements, and provides security features like the prevention of
hacking attempts. By using a BaaS model, the client can now focus on their core job – the functionality
of their blockchain – instead of worrying about infrastructure and performance related issues.
Think about BaaS’ working similar to that of a web hosting provider. You build a fantastic website that is
capable of getting millions of hits per day. You can host and run that website on your own
computer/server from your own office and take care of all the maintenance and support work yourself
or by hiring support staff. However, another hassle-free option is for you to host your website on an
external web hosting provider like Amazon Web Services or HostGator, and let them take care of all
infrastructure and maintenance issues. BaaS works similar to the second option and allows you to focus
on your core website functionality.
Hyperledger Cello, a BaaS-like blockchain module toolkit and utility system under the Hyperledger
project, provides a graphic demonstrating the working model of Blockchain-as-a-Service.

BaaS may be the necessary catalyst that can lead to a much wider and deeper penetration of blockchain
technology across various industry sectors and businesses. Instead of creating and running their own
blockchains, a business, large or small, can now simply “outsource” the technical complex work and
focus on its core activities.
Large technology firms are already throwing their hats into the blockchain rings with their own BaaS
offerings. Microsoft offers a BaaS module on its Azure platform, IBM has its own BaaS which is focused
on private consortium blockchains, and Amazon and Oracle have their own blockchain cloud hosting
services. (See also, Oracle to Launch Blockchain Products This Month.)

A rising star in the business world, Blockchain-as-a-Service (BaaS) — when a third-party installs and Commented [OM6]: https://builtin.com/blockchain/bloc
maintains blockchain networks for a company’s technologies — helps businesses develop and host kchain-as-a-service-companies

blockchain apps and smart contracts in a blockchain ecosystem that's managed and administered by
cloud-based service providers.
BaaS has gained significant traction recently because it can “resolve complex issues around
transparency, efficiency and cost” in a simplistic and straightforward manner. The quickest adopters
have been in the software, fintech and logistics industries. BaaS has become so popular, in fact, that
some of the largest tech companies in the world — including IBM, Microsoft and Oracle — all have
divisions dedicated to the integration and evangelism of BaaS.
For many companies, pairing cloud services with BaaS could be enormously valuable. The personalized
flexibility of BaaS technology allows businesses to combat pain points by tailoring integrations. Whether
it’s acting as a smart contracts platform for a real estate company or a payment processing service for a
retailer, BaaS is making waves across a variety of industries.

The blockchain technology is continuing to disrupt several industry domains owing to its revolutionary Commented [OM7]: https://medium.com/swlh/blockchai
proposition. According to Gartner, blockchain became the second most searchable term at its platform, n-as-a-service-platforms-5f8c97850d92
with an increase in search volume by up to 400% in 12 months. The growing interest in blockchain
solutions is paving way for service providers to simplify block tech for companies looking for ways to
implement this technology to streamline operations.
With the introduction of Blockchain-as-a-Service by Microsoft in 2015, a new avenue opened up for
companies who wanted to familiarize themselves with the technology before investing heavily to
develop blockchain-based solutions. Essentially, Blockchain-as-a-Service allows companies to outsource
the development, operations, and maintenance of blockchain platform for their business and leverage
the benefits without deviating from core business functions.
BaaS: What it means for businesses?
To interact and utilize blockchain for your business, you will have to set up nodes on a blockchain
platform and maintain the same. This technically-complex and a tedious process can keep an enterprise
away from implementing efficient blockchain systems for operations.
Blockchain-as-a-service is offered by tech companies to help enterprises deal with the complex
blockchain backend. The engagement model, similar to others in the IT industry such as Software-as-a-
Service is fuelling the rapid adoption of blockchain for businesses.
Blockchain as a Service: A Boon for Modern Enterprises Looking for Change
A BaaS provider will set up blockchain connected nodes for your enterprise and will speed up the
adoption by handling things at the technical end. In other words, BaaS enables an enterprise to hire
blockchain from a hosting provider who will take responsibility for deploying and configuring blockchain
for your business in their own servers.
Deployment of enterprise software is not easy owing to the scale of operations, integration and
deployment issues. Blockchain-as-a-service enables businesses to try out the new technology before
rolling out to cut down costs and eliminate complexity from the beginning. Instead of taking the decision
of a costly legacy system upgrade, enterprises can first check out a solution and its utility when it comes
to their custom solutions.
Driving innovation via Blockchain as a Service
There are potentially infinite applications for the blockchain technology. From finance to data
administration and management, digitization to manufacturing and logistics, blockchain has an inherent
potential to drive innovation across a number of industries. Already, blockchain is refueling the startup
culture globally with the launch of blockchain-based solutions.
Blockchain Startups & Innovation
With the help of a service such as BaaS, established as well as budding enterprises can take advantage of
modern technology to turn the innovation wheel and bring out something valuable for the society. As
blockchain-as-a-service makes it possible to get hold of blockchain apps and scale up as the company
grows, it also ensures that enterprises do not spend without having a solid proof-of-scalability in hand.
BaaS platforms in the future will be seen across industry segments such as financial services, healthcare
and supply chain management, among others. Owing to the benefit offered by BaaS platforms, they will
act as a catalyst for adoption of blockchain technology at large, worldwide.

There is no doubt that the easy accessibility of blockchain technology owing to BaaS platforms will
enable enterprises to experiment, evolve and create better solutions. Increased adoption of blockchain
solutions will spurt an innovation drive that will leverage potential use cases of blockchain for the
benefit of entrepreneurial as well as consumer ecosystem in the future.

Trend, Examples, Value Created Commented [OM8]: Writer I would like a somewhat in-
depth review of efforts by Linux, IBM, Amazon, Microsoft,
Top BaaS platforms for enterprise solutions
SAP, Oracle, VMWare. The rest you can do less in depth;
Some of the largest players in the tech industry have already launched their dedicated BaaS group by areas. I did some research; in some cases a lot of
platforms for enterprises. From Ethereum-based platforms to Hyperledger-based BaaS research (e.g., Oracle… interviews, etc). Please quote
important; delete the rest. Clearly I included more
offerings, the ecosystem is already crowded making it hard for your company to choose a
information than you can use. You will most definitely need
reliable provider. To give you a heads up for deciding, we are enlisting the top BaaS platforms: top do research as well.
Commented [OM9]: https://medium.com/swlh/blockchai
n-as-a-service-platforms-5f8c97850d92
The Linux Foundation
The Linux Foundation deserves special mention because it is the software provider of a popular Commented [OM10]:
BaaS product. The organization last year released Hyperledger Fabric 1.0, a collaboration tool
for building blockchain distributed ledgers, such as smart contracts, for vertical industries. IBM
and Oracle both offer services based on Hyperledger Fabric.

The HyperLedger Project & IBM Commented [OM11]: https://medium.com/coinmonks/h

By late 2017, we’d realized something had snuck up on legacy technology companies. Small ere-comes-blockchain-as-a-service-8cf187cc828f

tech startups were raising hundreds of millions of dollars every month due to their cutting-edge
developments related to the mysterious “blockchain.” However, this changed in late 2015. The
Linux Foundation launched an umbrella project comprised of open-source blockchains and
blockchain tools. This was a first-of-its-kind initiative based on the scope of collaboration and
the clout of the collaborators. Some of the earliest member-companies include Cisco, Fujitsu,
Hitachi, IBM and Intel.
“The objective of the project is to advance cross-industry collaboration by developing
blockchains and distributed ledgers, with a particular focus on improving the performance and
reliability of these systems (as compared to comparable cryptocurrency designs) so that they are
capable of supporting global business transactions by major technological, financial and supply
chain companies.”
And they are well on the path to achieving that objective. IBM now offers Hyperledger Fabric, an
enterprise-ready blockchain tool developed through the HyperLedger Project. The turn-key solution
helps businesses upgrade their existing legacy systems to the more robust and capable
blockchain architecture. IBM also provides necessary guidance for the transition. In short, IBM
has simplified the processes required to bring blockchain to the mainstream.
IBM’s blockchain platform enables a business to develop, manage and operate a multi-
institution network with ease. With an enterprise plan offering access to transaction ordering
service, certificate authority and a network peer, the platform is one of the most unique BaaS
offerings in the industry. Recently, IBM announced a pluggable architecture, a new consensus
algorithm, and advanced identity management to make its platform one of the most powerful,
secure and highly-customizable BaaS solution.
Microsoft Blockchain on Azure
One of the first blockchain-as-a-service platform in the market, Microsoft Blockchain on Azure
facilitates deployment and configuration of blockchain network with minimum technical
knowledge. The platform is quite user-friendly and enables single-click deployment enabling
companies to deploy blockchain network topology in minutes. The platform is based on
Ethereum Consortium Blockchain and charges a company based on the resources consumed
such as network and storage.
Microsoft became one of the first software vendors to offer BaaS when it launched Azure
Blockchain Service in 2015. Last year it launched Enterprise Smart Contracts, which provides
users with the schema, logic, counterparties, external sources, ledger, and contract binding for
building their own blockchain services.
In November 2015, Microsoft and ConsenSys announced a partnership to create Ethereum
blockchain as a service (EBaaS) on Microsoft Azure. The service is designed to help customers
build private-, public- and consortium-based blockchain environments on Azure’s global
platform.
A year later, Microsoft announced a collaboration with Blockstack Labs, ConsenSys and a
variety of developers on an open source, blockchain-based identity system that allows people,
products, apps and services to interoperate across blockchains, cloud providers and
organizations.
See user reviews of Microsoft Azure Blockchain Service

AWS Blockchain Templates Commented [OM12]: See also

Amazon’s AWS Blockchain Templates makes it easy for businesses to set up Ethereum or https://aws.amazon.com/blockchain/

Hyperledger Fabric-compatible blockchain networks. AWS templates can work as open-source https://media.consensys.net/everything-enterprises-need-
frameworks that speed up the deployment, configuration, and development of blockchain to-know-about-amazons-blockchain-as-a-service-
applications and decentralized networks. With a distributed consensus algorithm and multiple 9bd740e09276

access control features, AWS Blockchain Templates have the potential to give businesses the
ability to develop multiple aspects of a secure and stable blockchain network. On-demand start
and shut down functionality ensures the business can customize the platform according to the
growing or diminishing needs.
Amazon’s evolution from a digital bookstore into a commercial monolith is one of the most remarkable
success stories of the 21st century. Their forward-thinking also allowed them to capture a good chunk of
the cloud-based web services market and become a true competitor to tech-centric data companies like
Microsoft and Google.
Indeed, AWS is one of the most widely-used hosting services in the world. And now, Amazon allows
companies to easily integrate their blockchain-as-a-service solutions through their partnership with APN
Technology and Consulting, the primary architects of their blockchain initiatives.
Currently, they have AWS templates that allow users to create Ethereum or HyperLedger Fabric
networks with a few mouse clicks. There are official blog posts that explain step-by-step how to
establish the basic tokenomics and functionality of a new layer application. Amazon also hosts many
support features to help onboard clients who might not fully understand every step of the process. This
is crucial, given how complex the fundamentals of this new technology can be. Indeed, the
programming-literacy level of your average user being elementary, at best.
The competition is heating up. Expect to see each company invest considerable resources in developing
next-gen layer applications. The goal? Differentiation.
That being said, collaboration will also continue to play a significant role in this space. We see Verizon
and Amazon partnering with blockchain-specialized firms like GuardTime Federal and APN, and featuring
IBM-developed technology like Hyperledger Fabric. I’d say it paints a pretty picture.
Businesses developing industry-wide platforms that promote information
sharing and collaboration over walled gardens and mimicked products.
What a time to be alive.
Amazon AWS
Location: Seattle
How it’s using blockchain: Amazon Web Services (AWS) is a BaaS leader in many industries. The
company integrates blockchain-based networks and business processes for some of the largest
companies in the world (including T-Mobile and PwC) to improve IT infrastructure, business processes,
human resources, financial transactions and supply chains. The company’s BaaS deploys Ethereum and
Hyperledger Fabric frameworks so the blockchain is flexible enough to adapt to almost every
environment.

SAP Cloud Platform Blockchain

SAP’s blockchain as a service is called "Leonardo," which in turn is based on Hyperledger, and
resides in the SAP Cloud service, so it can be accessed from any device and requires no on-
premises hardware or software. SAP Leonardo functions as a blockchain cloud service,
machine learning service and supports the Internet of Things (IoT) in a single ecosystem.
See user reviews of SAP Cloud Platform Blockchain

Oracle Commented [KM13]: Todd Little of Oracle interview +

Oracle launched its blockchain cloud service as a part of its Platform-as-a-Service portfolio. It SXSW talk.

gives enterprises the power to create new revenue streams and reduce costs by providing on- The case studies and other general information about our
premises applications for performing secure transactions on a business network. Facilitating service can be seen at https://oracle.com/blockchain
rapid onboarding and faster scalability around the globe, Oracle’s solution is embedded with an For more details on our cloud service, see
https://cloud.oracle.com/blockchain.
integrated application, sample codes, design patterns, and templates to speed up blockchain
integration across business networks and application suites.

[Improved Hyperledger Fabric] Oracle is based upon Hyperledger Fabric. We extended fabric in several
ways. We've replaced the state database with a replacing a level DB with a Berkeley database. And then
we've layered in sequel layer on top of that. Normally in Hyperledger Fabric to be able to do things like
rich queries and stuff like that and you're checking code, you must come these out. The result to using
couch DV, which is dramatically slower, as much less expressive in terms of the kind of queries that you
can make. We also provide than a management console. We provide the rest of proxy because we
anticipate a lot of companies are going to use blockchain has an integration platform, do other type
things like multiple ERP systems together. And to do that with a blockchain, if this is our most others,
you need to use an SDK and you have to have an SDK for language that your ERP system is written there.
Great providing arrest API, most ERP systems, most packaged applications can make less calls and can
receive breast calls. So that basically provided blockchain eater or Russ proxy, the interface to the
blockchain, you're going to be able to integrate those things much easier. We're also, unique in terms of
how we price the service. The service is priced on a per transaction basis. Instead of acquiring a bunch of
he sources and having to pay for all those resources you pay on a per transaction basis. And finally, what
we're doing with a lot of our SAS applications, oracle has a large variety of SAS applications. We are
integrating those Sass applications with our blockchain service. Things like supply chain management,
track and trace, all those sorts of applications now that are provided by our SAS applications will now be
able to do that over a blockchain so that multiple organizations can use those applications and can't
have a single source of truth.
I look for us, for us with the process of building from the ground up, the type protocols and open source
protocol, uh, and it really needs to be able to ensure that consumers were able to handle the revisions
to their data in a, um, with a time of throughput that is necessary for that to be able to run it for
dramatic speeds. Otherwise we'd break the whole concept. Yeah. Um, so the decision to be able to
implement a, a version of IOS was really built around the concept of we need to have the throughput
speeds. We need to be against your insured, that consumers can control permissions, access to their
data effectively in this closest possible to read real time. To support massive scalable adoption on the
global level. Uh, and you can imagine every time a business, a dos, it's high protocol, it creates an
encore. It's a Thai bullet for every single one of its consumers. It's not necessarily a linear progression.
You're really stop taking progression to do that. And then you'd make some modification to an existing
chain and ensure that we can provide the right resources.
[How do you help to organize those participants for block chain network?] We run an on-call consortium
blockchains. So that's a, a couple of members, typically a founding member, then ask the other
members to join. The consortium for me is probably one of the more difficult aspects of what I would
call and these permission it, you have to decide who can participate, what are the rules for participation,
how do you add new members, how do you remove number should they would be violating the
agreements? There's a whole sort of the legal requirements or, or organizational requirements or things
that you must address that have nothing to do with the technology. The other part of it is, is you must
also show that there's value to doing this. And that's the, one of the more difficult parts as well. Because
you ever go to somebody, typically you should switch from Julian.
What you're doing right now, we're just typically a centralized system and you want to go to a
decentralized system. What is the value to that? If they're a permission block chain, you don't have to,
there's no monetization, don't think of it. You must figure out what the business value. It's the things
like transparency, the lack of uh, reconciliation, being able to disintermediate your intermediaries so you
can get rid of the banks and stuff like that if could do any trade finance. You must find those business
values are a key to that organization and the organizations that they do business with reform with.
We're focusing primarily on business to business transactions. And so those, you must, all the businesses
that are involved, you must get some value out of it. You can't typically get, you know, be like Walmart
who told their suppliers, you must put RFID chips on every package that comes in through our shipping
warehouses. Right? That's not going to work in a blockchain environment typically. Otherwise you bad
to a centralized system because you need decentralized control besides decentralized technology.
I came to Oracle through an acquisition. My background is largely 15, 20 years around high-performance
transaction processing. I'm the chief architect for the Oracle Tuxedo product family and that provides a
high-performance transaction processing platform that's used by fortune 1000 companies to do
transaction volumes of anywhere up to several hundreds of thousands of transactions per second. As far
as the blockchain stuff, we started looking about what are the other ways could we expand and doing
transaction processing other than as a traditional time that we've been to use and came across
blockchain. And after a couple of proposals, submissions to our executives, uh, they finally said, go
ahead and build it. So that's what my team has been doing for the last two and a half years.
Everybody equates oracle to database. We offer a wide range of enterprise software, so ERP
applications. A lot of SAS applications, a bunch of middleware. And of course, you know, numerous
database technologies. So we are, we're focusing on enterprise customers. Although we do small and
medium business as well. And it's the whole gambit of software. We're moving into quickly here, a little
bit late. Moving to the cloud and making our SAS applications available as SAS. Things like as a HCM,
ERP, supply chain, all those kinds of applications that are, are moving this to be services on the cloud.
Blockchain is revolutionary in terms of what it allows companies to be able to do. When we're seeing the
biggest interest in are things like the traditional, I guess blockchain applications, if they can go off the
traditional and then timeframe. But things like supply chains, tracking trays, provenance of information,
financial markets. Doing a cross border payments, anybody's factoring, all those sorts of the applications
are going to be things that are going to move to a blockchain. And largely because it helps increase the
amount of trust between organizations and as well in many cases, it's going to eliminate the
intermediaries that and just add cost and time delays to those things.
We're seeing across many, many industries. We're seeing interest in, in blockchain, everything from
healthcare to consumer electronics to loyalty systems. And of course, some of the traditional is say
things like enterprise requirements, planning, ERP applications. For the transition, what we're seeing
that with an Oracle is that the customers have an interest in this because of the increase in trust that is
available through a blockchain. Our SAS applications are now starting to adopt blockchain technology
and using our platform to do that.
For an enterprise client right now a lot of it has to do with the transparency. If with a traditional system,
everybody's got their own silos of data and I've got my data, you've got your data. With something like
blockchain, we can come up with a single system of record that we use as the source of truth for
anything that we're doing together between the jar to businesses. That's one of the big areas is sort of
this transparency and trust that it helps.
It also helps them things like availability and security to hack a blockchain would require somebody to
attack many nodes and basically subvert, you know, multiple, many, many nodes in a network. And that
makes important. We're seeing that it also provides higher security for transactions between companies
and insurance of the data that they have is, is accurate and up to date, um, we've seen, uh, as well the
ability to be able to do new businesses have just weren't possible before. Things like marketplaces that
you can simply automate those kinds of technologies and applications are a great fit for blockchain
technology.
The difference between the cloud and blockchain decentralized versus centralized? We're only focusing,
at least at Oracle, on permission. Blockchains are enterprise customers are dealing with their customers
or their suppliers and they need to know who those people are. The anonymity that permission was
blockchain provides you is it doesn't provide any value. Our customers have to adhere to things like anti
money laundering laws and know your customer laws. And those are very difficult to do in a
permissionless blockchain because you don't have an idea about who the partner is that you're working
with. It's very difficult to comply to those kinds of applications.
Right now there's, there's really only one good consensus protocol for permissionless blockchains and
that's proof of work. That is consuming in an enormous amount of energy. So, we would prefer to see
that thing come up with something else if we need to have permissionless blockchains. That's going to
be, that's a big concern because if bitcoin continues to grow, the amount of energy being wasted just to
do my name, to be able to cut blocks, this is staggering. And the permissioned, you don't have that issue
because you know who the parties are, and you can come up with other consensus algorithms that are
much, much more efficient.

One of the offerings is intelligent track and trace. It is a way for customers using it like an ERP
application to be able to track and trace the provenance of information or departments of, of goods or
for supplies. So that's one of them.

Another one is what we call cold trace. For example, Kolbe Trades is another tracking application to be
able to track goods that must keep kept refrigerated. Using a combination of blockchain and IoT, we're
able to track the, the provenance of the goods to make sure that they've been handled properly, that
they haven't been, uh, subjected to excessive heat. Uh, and we're, as I say, we're integrating these into
our SAS applications.

Our ERP application, they're looking at this to be able to do things like invoice factoring to be able to do
invoice the middle. You know, one of the big problems with invoices and purchase orders and the like is
that each party has a different view of it. For example, if I order a bunch of goods, I may not get them all
together, even though they were on one purchase order. And I, you have an invoice for that. The swag is
an invoice for that, but they may not have provided all of it. Maybe it comes in a multiple set of
shipments. How do I keep that, keep track of that? And if I have a separate system, I must go through
some sort of reconciliation. By using a blockchain, especially with permission blockchain, I can invite
parties together and we can then make sure that we have a single source of truth. So that's going to be a
really, um, a big benefit for any kind of B2b, uh, uh, applications because we no longer have to have
separate sources of truth. We can have one source of truth and eliminate reconciliation. Yeah. Citing a
IOT to offer there.

We are based upon Hyperledger Fabric. Well, I'm a member of Hyperledger and I have been for the last
couple of years and what we've done is we've been taking Hyperledger Fabric, which is a permission
blockchain platform, highly modular where almost everything can be replaced so you can replace the
consensus mechanism, you can replace the underlying database technology that's used, you can
replace, um, pretty much everything within fabric, you know, how membership has to handle and how
identities are handled. All components are pluggable because of the modularity of Hyperledger Fabric.
Within Hyperledger Fabric there are several key components. One is called a peer and appear as
essentially the computing node that takes care of maintaining the ledger. There's also then smart
contracts. So, we have a smart contract capability within Hyperledger Fabric, so we can run smart
contracts and go on Java or node and the smart contracts and basically execute the business logic.

One of the components that's provided as part of Hyperledger Fabric is a certificate authority that
handles the issuance of a and revoking of certificates. We've integrated that in our platform with Oracle
identity cloud service, so that way you can use the, our identity cloud service to be able to register and a
grant permission for people to be able to participate. Also, there is what's called an ordering service, I
should say finally, but an ordering service in, in Hyperledger Fabric is what does someone like what
miners do in bitcoin.

The ordering services responsible for taking transactions and putting them in a specific order and then
placing those transactions in a block and disseminating that block out to the other peers. There's a big
difference though in Hyperledger Fabric from other traditional blockchains in that in Hyperledger Fabric
what happens is we simulate the execution of the smart contract before committing the results. We
simulate that cross multiple peers based upon some of the common endorsement policy. And then with
that endorsement, those endorsements, the client, they then submit the transaction to be an order that,
but they must first collect enough of these endorsements. This is how Hyperledger Fabric ensures that
the, the state of the world databases post multiple peers are in sync. Once that's a place of the ordinary
service in order to see it, it goes back out to the peers to be committed.

And again, a validation checks are made at that point. We use multi version concurrency control and
that means that there may have been dirty reads that are in the, in your transaction because somebody
else may have modified something you read at endorsement time and it's no longer that same value and
commitment time. We apply multi version concurrency control to make sure that the transaction is
valid, it's got the proper signatures, the popper endorsements. Once all that's done, the transaction is
committed to the state database. The state databases, I guess you could call it a no sequel, it's a key
value store. Our services, replaced the level of DB that's used in standard fabric with Berkeley DB to get
some enhancements. And we'll cover that a little bit more on the ongoing questions here.

[How does the Oracle position itself differently from some of their competitors?] There are several
competitors that are offering a Hyperledger Fabric as a basis for their blockchain platform. I think the
things that make us unique is one is that we are usage based in terms of charging. So, uh, we charged by
the by transaction with a, with a minimum transaction volume of our 500 transactions per hour. 500
transactions per hour equates to depending upon the kind of contract you have with Oracle to about
$360 a month for four, a small configuration. As your commitment goes up higher, we provision
additional resources and we have different shapes if you will, compute shapes depending upon the kind
of volume you're anticipating. We charged we're usage base, which I think is unique in the, in the field
right now. We've made a bunch of enhancements to make it much easier to manage and monitor your
blockchain platform.
We've got a console that takes care of the administration. You can do such things as an add new
organizations because Hyperledger Fabric is a consortium based block chain, you need to have means to
be able to exchange the crypto material such that even add new members and everybody knows about
that and the crypto material is, is accepted Nixon exchange. We handle all of that through our console
as well. Monitoring and management of the compute resources. The probably the biggest difference
though is that we're what we call an oracle managed service. So, an oracle managed service means that
Oracle tastes care of providing the infrastructure, monitoring, the infrastructure, monitoring, taking care
of patching, taking care of upgrading, taking care of backups. So all those, all those kinds of operations
Oracle handles for our customers, that allows them to customers to focus just on what are their
deployment of their smart contracts and the configuration of their network, but all of the underlying
pieces and the rest of that oracle tastes care of as part of a managed service.

We wanted to do is want to make it attractive to customers to try it out. That's the same thing we
noticed because if you go to the open source community, in many cases what you get is a bunch of
command line tools. And that's how you do everything. Well, that's a, that's a tough way to have an
operation. Staff must manage something. So that's why we provide this console to be able to do that.
Another thing we provide, by the way, that I think that I'm pretty sure it's unique, is that we offer a rest
proxy to the service. So early version of the Hyperledger Fabric had a rest interface to the blockchain.
But when the Hyperledger Fabric went to one.zero and beyond, they removed the rest APIs. So, what
we're providing that as a proxy that can take rest requests and then turn those into the GRPC requests
that are necessary to be able to interact with fabric.

And this has been very popular with our customers because trying to integrate a blockchain application
using the SDKs means got to have an SDK for the environment that you're in a, and there's only those
three SDKs right now that are supported. Those would go node and Java. Even if you're using one of
those languages in your application to be able to integrated, it's typically a much more difficult,
especially for packaged applications. Whereas most Patrick's applet packaged applications can make rest
calls or receive rest calls. So by using the rest of proxy and we get around the issue of and having to do
juice straight jeep GRPC.

It shows that the Hyperledger community is much, much bigger than just IBM. And, there are over 220
our corporate sponsors and backers groups like oracle who were really making some cool contributions.

[Solutions infrastructure -- do you work with any of your customers and clients to help do discovery use
case analysis, solution design or, or do you guys really step in once a customer has an idea what they
want.] That's one of the more difficult parts here because of the hype around the technology, I liken it to
everybody's walking around with a hammer and they're trying to find the nails. Uh, so we, we get, we
get some crazy ideas about blockchain. We must, we have to spend some time with the customer to sort
of set their expectations properly and then really look at where the pop, the blockchain technology
makes sense to apply. We'll work with the customer to help figure out what are the friction points
within the current business, where their trust issues. So those sorts of things that blockchain works well
to help mitigate. We help with customer, try to identify those and then we will do, will help the
customer with things like pilots or PLCs.

Both the, either on a presales basis or on a consulting basis. And then finally we'll also bring in partners
where necessary. A large pilot or something like that, we would potentially bring in a partner that's
experienced in developing blockchain applications. Um, we also get involved in helping, you know, sea
levels and stuff like that, be able to identify or understand what the benefit of this technology is because
the hear about it and they hear about blockchain and oftentimes they equate that to bitcoin and they're
going, what do I need bitcoin in my company for? It's a, a bit of a task than to be able to identify what
are some real opportunities and to be able to differentiate between bitcoin and blockchain.

Our most recent release, which is based upon Hyperledger fabric one dot three, there is support now for
Java chain code. So customers can write their chain code or smart contracts in Java and that's fully
supported as well. There's a, a SDK that's available for Java. Um, I've asked our Java experts to see if
they can step in and maybe help with some of that because we've got people who've got many, many,
many years of job experience as you can imagine. Um, so we're going to have the hoping to have them
be able to look and a and contribute potentially to the development of the both the SDK and the Java
framework. Um, you know, one of the concerns about Java is, is the sort of the resources, right? The
JVM is not a small thing. Trying to figure out, you know, maybe something like micro profile or other
things to be able to support the smart contracts in a, in a minimal environment because smart contracts
don't require a lot of capabilities.

You don't need something like a, a GE application server to run a smart contract. Smart contract should
be purely functional. Uh, and as such, you don't typically need than many libraries or frameworks to be
able to develop. And, um, but I think there's some more work that can be done there. Then as well as
sort of integrated into the whole CICB pipelines and stuff. So that's something else that we're, we're uh,
looking at, uh, we do provide the ability to do that kind of integration with our service. The rest proxy
that we have also supports a administrative interfaces so you can deploy a new chain codes on the fly
using the rest APIs or using this judge GRPC stuff from the fabric SDKs. I think we'll see a lot more
interest around Java. Um, there's probably farm, I know they're far more Java developers.

We're also talking about sort of future stuff for smart contracts is looking at things like rules-based
engines and stuff. One of our concerns is that customers will develop a smart contract, deploy it, and
there'll be bugs and that smart contract, which could cause serious problems. I'm sure most people are
familiar with a decentralized autonomous organization that was built on top of a theory and due to a
bug in the smart contract, uh, somebody was able to siphon off 60 million, uh, in a very short period.
And so those kinds of things, you need to make sure that the smart contract is accurate and consistent.
Doing that in a program is tough, right? Writing True bug free programs is, you know, Nirvana, right?
People could do that and are provably correct programs. Until we get to that point, I think we're going
to need to start developing things like domain specific languages or rules based engines for executing
smart contracts.
[Some of the biggest risks to accompany adopting blockchain right now is big. You, you really got to
make sure that you've got your design right. You've got your plan right, you're implementing the right
process, otherwise you've, uh, you've just reduced the amount of time it takes you to do something
wrong, which is not always the end goal.] That's another point. But in the way that, uh, the one thing, a
big advantage that permission to blockchains have. So if there isn't, if there's a problem with the smart
contract, you know who the participants are and you can come to an agreement about how to fix it or
how to remedy whatever problem that cause in permission on this block chains you, but your only
choice is to fork and, and, and that's not something you want to do on a regular basis.

Anyone watching who's spent time in the theory of moral. But I think one of the things I love most about
Hyperledger in general is the fact that you're not storing your logic, your chain, Cody or smart contracts
on chain. So, um, you, you can do crazy things like in place updates of your smart contracts, which
makes so many of those maintenance concerns on platforms like a theory and just go away.

[Interoperability. And the question was specifically around whether Oracle's blockchain offerings or are
planning any kind of interoperability framework with other platforms.] Interoperability is going to be a
must. I mean, you know, we're not going to have one blockchain to rule them all. Unless we have one
blockchain to rule them all, you're going to have to have interoperation between them. Uh, so that's,
that's a given. Um, I think the problem right now is that we don't have good general-purpose protocols
now to be able to do cross ledger transfers. Um, this is true within fabric between even just between
channels, but it's also true between if you want to do something and fabric and Ethereum. Um, there
are things like escrow models and stuff like that that you can use that help but not that's built in now.
Unfortunately, we don't have something like a two-phase commit kind of protocols, right? X exhale
provides, that's where I come from.

And the traditional transaction processing world interoperability between databases and other resource
managers was by Axa. Um, and, and that was great in those environments. It doesn't work in a
blockchain because of the blockchain. You junk. We don't have locking mechanisms. Um, and so, you
know, you need to do other things like potentially put things in escrow or stuff like that to be able to do
this kind of interoperation cause you can, you can certainly call the theory, I'm smart contract from a
Hyperledger smart contract, but there's no coordination of the commits associated with those. So the
Ethereum contract might succeed in the Hyperledger one might fail or vice versa. And, and now you end
up with inconsistencies, right? Because you thought you put something over on the other blockchain
and in fact it didn't get there, but you don't, you don't know about anymore because you're giving it to
them.

You've got this general problem what interoperability that I think we're going to have to address as an
industry and I think we need to come up with some creative models for how to handle that. Um, we
were watching quilt to see how it does with the intellectual protocol. Uh, but at the moment, as far as I
know, that does not handle risk-free interoperation between it protocol, between different blockchain
platforms, there's always a risk that somebody is going to be left holding the bag. Um, and because of,
because of a broken set of transactions and that that's, that's a problem that's got to get worked out.
Um, you know, people propose things like eventual consistency and stuff like that. Well, for certain
kinds of things, especially monetary transfers and stuff like that, eventual consistency may not be the
best solution. Eventual consistency is also oftentimes developed and get back into the reconciliation
issue then.

I think we're going to have to solve this problem. But I think as an industry, we're still quite a way away
from having a good solution towards interoperability. Follow up the question. I got a good question in
our chat. If a customer has a different ERP system, for example, SAP, uh, can they still deploy the Oracle
blockchain survey? Uh, yeah, the Oracle bought cream services is a pass offering, so they would be able
to, from their SAP application to be able to, you know, use our blockchain there too, uh, in both
transactions to be able to get notifications of events and transactions having completed. So it's certainly
possible to do that. Um, and, and you know, one thing that's interesting about our service is that
customers can do this, uh, on their own premise. We don't have an on-premise offering, but what we do
allow is, uh, with our implementation of fabric is we allow customers to run their own fabric nodes. So
you can run fabric and your on premise and another cloud provider. And we will support having that
kind of a federated network or as a decentralized network out of multiple places. And I think that's
relatively unique as well. If you have customers who say, Nope, I'm not going to go to Oracle's cloud
service, I'm going to go to somebody else's cloud service. If it's Hyperledger Fabric based, we will
support the ability to be able to have those join to form a single blockchain network.

[Supply chain solutions.] One of our supply chain customers who I think just went live yesterday, uh, is a
company called certified origins. They're a producer of olive oil, uh, you know, high quality, sort of top of
the line, kind of olive oil. They're an Italian based firm and they basically take care of, you know, working
with the farmers to get to acquire the grapes to then have the grapes press to be tough. I'll us to press,
press the olives to get the, extract the oil and then the, the modeling of it, the passion to distribution of
it and finally delivered to the stores and they're doing it using our blockchain service. Then basically to
track that entire supply chain. So from the time the olives are, are collected from farms to the time that
say they're Preston and all the steps in between, they're tracking this and you can, we've provided an
APP or you can scan the barcode on one of their bottles and say, Oh yeah, these olives came from this
farm or process in this particular processing plant.

You'd have to get the whole thing, be able to see that. You get this sort of, uh, ability to be able to give a
lot more information to customers. Um, and that's also what other areas, whether that's important, it's
going to be around things like recalls and stuff like that, or contamination. I mean, you've, you've,
you've, I'm sure you, everybody heard about the Romaine lettuce a fiasco a lot of month ago or two. Uh,
and so because they couldn't do track the, where this stuff came from, basically all Romaine lettuce got
pulled off the shelves that this is an expensive, I suspect operation. So my museum is something like a
track and trace kind of application to be able to track where the goods came from, how they're
processed, all that sort of stuff. You'd be able to very quickly be able to identify where the contaminated
Romaine lettuce came from.
Certified origins is one. We have one that's, uh, it's a sort of supply chain. It's probably our largest
customer right now is called Cargo Smart. It is a service and software developer for the shipping
industry. They recently formed a consortium called the global shipping business network, where they've
got some of the largest carriers and shippers and forwarders who are working together to be able to put
information on the blockchain for a much more transparency and helped him be able to eliminate errors
and stuff like that. That business, as, as goods move one hand to another hand, you've got paperwork
that must go along with them because the shipper has to know is this, is this I the goods that I'm
shipping here, are they safe? Are they, you know, are they dangerous items?

Because if they are, they've got to be handled in a special way, you know, where did they get placed on
the ship? There's a lot of this kind of information and there's a lot of going back and forth between the
shippers, the carriers of the forwarders, that all has to be tracked. Right now it's all was all paper based.
They're moving to an online version, but the right now using a blockchain service to track essentially the
providence and the information content that's contained in these documents. One of the reasons for
that is because when there's errors there, there are potentially fines. If the, the carrier or the shipper
doesn't handle things properly and the pork finds out about this, the port may find then the, uh, the
shipper or the care of the, any of the parties involved. You get into also then this whole dispute
resolution, right, about who, who made the air, what was the impact, all that sort of stuff. A lot of this
stuff will go away as we go to a single source of truth.

Absolutely. And I think he kind of touched on it too, but just the cost savings, right? How much did it
cost to recall all that lettuce? We didn't need to recall, um, you know, late last summer and the news,
um, Kerry gold butter, you may have seen as is facing a class action lawsuit here in the u s to the tune of
about $150 million, cause they can't validate that their butter is actually coming from all grass fed cows.
So, um, you know, so many of, of these solutions that's, it's not necessarily a assuming a cost as much as
it is risk or future cost mitigation.

Supply chain is one of the reasons I think it's sort of the, the most common use case for blockchain is
that there are so many parties involved, right? You can have many, many of the parties involved in a
supply chain and they all have a vested interest to make sure that things move smoothly, that the
information is accurate, that you can be able to track and trace things. We're, we're, we're seeing that's
probably our most popular area, I guess, or the, where we're seeing the most amount of interest. But
we're seeing interest across pretty much every one of our verticals. Um, because of the, the ability is, is
eight to be able to have a single source of truth that, that all the parties can agree upon. I, you just, you
took the words out of my mouth. My next question was to ask you, you know, outside of supply chain,
what are some of those areas where you're seeing a lot of growth or at least a lot of growing interest?

One of the areas is, is, is healthcare. We have one of our customers is using the blockchain to be able to
attract, uh, information about patients, uh, especially around heart patients because oftentimes there
are relapses or complications that occur within one to two weeks after surgery. They want to be able to
collect information about the patient by monitoring things in the patient, recording all of this on the
blockchain, and then they'd be able to go and be able to potentially anticipate where patient might have
an issue or a problem. We're seeing it to healthcare. And now another area in healthcare that we're
seeing is around the ability one call accountable access to confidential information. The idea is that you
use the blockchain to mediate the access to information because our healthcare information right now
is somewhat scattered. So, uh, my GPS got my, got my records, a cardiologist has his set of records for
me.

The hospital from what had been hospitalized has their set of records for me. And so what we can
potentially do with a blockchain is we could say, okay, I as the patient, oh, allow this, this new particular
practitioner to be able to have access to my records and be able to record that on the blockchain and
even grant access to that information through the blockchain. We're seeing it in healthcare, we're
seeing it in, um, to the other industries. The licensing entitling, so that's another very common use case.
So, uh, academic credentials or maybe professional licenses. A lot of that time that the suppliers have
that information, our ma or many of them, so maybe the university or they took classes where they got
their degree, any licensing boards, uh, those are handled. This stuff can be tracked on a blockchain to
give much more transparency and to be able to give much more control about the information.

My college transcripts on a blockchain, I wouldn't want everybody to be able to see those. But with a
blockchain, I might give somebody permission to be able to do that. They'd then be able to access that
information in a confidential way. And without anybody else seeing that, but I can mediate that through
a blockchain. What are some of the other industries they just ask Todd Saturday interrupted, um, about,
are you guys working with any government entity that are tempting to get blockade and utilize you guys
services? Yeah, so we have a, a good example for the government is, uh, the, uh, in Somalia, so not
Somalia, I'm sorry. Um, Nigeria customs. Thank you. Thank you. The same continent, different side is, is
using this to be able to track customs information for shipments coming, arriving and departing from
Nigeria. A little bit like what cargo smarts doing, but focusing on, um, what kinds of goods and stuff like
that are traveling through the airport. So that's a, that's an example. We are, uh, working with the
national health system in the UK. This is the one for vaccination tracking and disclosing that information.
It's children there must be vaccinated before they're allowed to attend school and so they must be able
to provide proof that the vaccination was applied, what doctor performed that vaccination. All that kind
of information that we're going to be tracking on a blockchain. I'm afraid to ask.

[Real estate] Real estate titles is a good classic example of where blockchain would make a lot of sense.
Now if I buy a house, I'm got to go to a title company. It acts as an intermediary and provides the
insurance because they presumably that have searched all the records and make sure that the title is
clear. If that title was held on a blockchain and any reports against that or any claims against that title
where we recorded on the blockchain, you'd know immediately whether the titles free and clear. Um, so
you could very much very quickly speed up the whole operation, but also probably put title companies
out of business. But that's a secondary side effect.

[Areas you'd seen where blockchain hasn't been a good fitter or it hasn't necessarily provided value?]
One of the first questions I asked customers is are the problems you're trying to solve, the issues you're
trying to deal with? Can they be solved with a centralized database? And if they can end to discussion
centralized databases, we know how to, we know how to build applications on those. We've been doing
that for decades. Decentralized applications we've been doing only a few years, so we don't have the
knowledge, we don't have the design patterns, at least not as rich as ones that we have for centralized
systems. Um, so that, that helps. That helps narrow down, uh, and helps eliminate some of the, I would
call bad use cases. Um, because I'd seen some of those and you started go, why is this decentralized?
There's only one, there's only one party involved.

There's only one party involved. You know, it may be in a large organization, you've got different
departments. Maybe it would do that. But you know, we've seen some, I've seen some bad cases where
customers you must ask them and go, I don't see the value that you get gaining from doing this. Um, I
think the biggest problem, I think we're, one of the biggest problems we're seeing is consortium for me.
This technology enables new business models and so you must figure out how to apply those new
business models, how to, uh, make them attractive financially. So, you know, you need to have
incentives for people to be able to participate if, if it just costs them and they don't gain anything that
they can, at least they can perceive the project is going to be a failure. So, there must be motivation to
be able to move to this technology.

So that's what one of the things we always look for is to say, what are the friction points that you have?
What are the trust issues you have between business partners? Where are you performing? Things like
reconciliation because you've been performing reconciliation. That tells me right away that you've got
two different systems and record that you're trying to keep in sync. Blockchain does that automatically.
Um, so I think, I think the biggest is they were seeing is that we see customers start and then they start
to question about what's the value going to be, uh, how, how much value are they going to get out of a
blockchain solution. So that's one part of it. We also have customers coming in who sort of tried to treat,
uh, the style of his permission to blockchain as almost as they would have permissionless blockchain.

And, and I think the design patterns are going to be very different. We've, we've seen some things that
are predictive successful there. Um, other areas we see is that we have sometimes hard time just getting
customers to get started with a pilot or a POC because getting the c levels to be able to fund this and to
be able to say, Oh yeah, I see what the financial or, or what other benefits are going to read from this.
Um, so it's also early on, I don't think we have some spectacular failures yet to to point to, uh, much as
we did with older technologies that just four GLS and object oriented databases and you know, we had
some spectacular well known failures and hosted in those technologies for permission blockchains. Not
as much. Uh, these not yet. Uh, hope maybe we can avoid that. I'm not sure. You know, this is just
selfish.

[The things that got me so excited about blockchain. When we were talking a little bit earlier about
interoperability, you mentioned, boy, we, we know there is a need for a solution and some design
patterns. We don't know what they are yet. We know they're going to be some different design patterns
for permission to implementation versus permission list once we just don't know what they are yet. Um,
you know, to anyone who's spent some time in technology, this is potentially a very exciting area to get
involved in because unlike so many other areas of technology, we don't know what the answers are yet.
We don't have the best practices. And that can either be incredibly terrifying, are incredibly exciting
depending on your outlook. For me it's, it's the latter. But I would encourage anyone watching this, if
you, you've kind of been watching blockchain from the side, the fact that so much of this picture is still
hasn't been drawn yet is attractive to you. There's just a great opportunity I think to get, so that will kind
of selfishly lead me to another question I wanted to ask. Training and education.]

If you're going to look at what's been done in the past, how does not work or what are the problems
that that's caused in the past. You want it, you want to do things differently. You want to also collect the
information about, you know, where are those friction points, how are they manifesting themselves
within new organizations? Those kinds of analytical skills are going to be obviously key. From a technical
view, um, it's going to require like I look at like we have Hyperledger Fabric, so Hyperledger Fabric uses
multi version concurrency control. Um, and, and so what that means is that if you have two transactions
in a block that modify the same key, one of them is going to fail.

A lot of enterprise applications historically have been using a SQL, uh, SQL based databases and they
know how to handle some of these things. The no sequel or the key guy who wins the data modeling
becomes very critical. You know, how much would it, how do you define your keys? What kinds of
information goes into those values. Knowing, knowing ways to be able to model stuff in a key value
database, I think it's going to be critical. One of the things I forgot to mention by the way about Oracle's
implementation is that in traditional fabric there's a, there's what they call rich queries where you can
make a query against the key value pair if you're using couch DB.

You can say, I want to query now against those values instead of just doing a key lookup. Um, that works
fine except couch d\DB performances not predicted great being a database company we want, okay, we
can do better than that. We've replaced level DB with Berkeley VB and we've placed SQL white on top of
that. The secret white driver for BBB. You can do full relational queries against the key value store. I can
say select from where the value of the, the, the owner is, Todd and I get, I get all my marbles from that,
from these marvels example. Um, so that, that's going to help a lot, I think. Uh, but I think, you know, in
traditional blockchains where you'd only have the key value store, the model is going to be important.
Um, understanding issues of like concurrency and the fact that most of these things are, are
asynchronous.

I can fabric the model is essentially you submit a transaction, but it's a, an asynchronous operation. You
get acknowledgement that the transaction has been submitted, but the outcome of the transaction
comes back to you later as an event. And so that's going to change. I think some programming models,
people are more custom to strictly request response. Um, and, and they can get that with our, with our
rest proxy. I rest proxy will provide that kind of fully synchronous interaction to make life easier for
people. Uh, but I think for many applications, you know, being able to deal with a completely
asynchronous model is something that they're going to need to be able to understand. Um, as well. I
think, you know, any blockchain, one of the big concerns are, one of the big issues is that you're smart
contracts have to be deterministic.
And that's something people haven't had to worry about in the past. I could, I can ask for the time right
now and I can ask the time and five minutes from now, and that's fine. But in a, in a, in a decentralized
model, you can't ask the current time because the peers may be executing these smart contracts at
different times because the client submitted to the pier eight at one point and submitted into pure be at
another point. And the clocks are not synchronized as well. You can't do, you can't use timestamps that
are generated inside your smart contract. There's this, these kinds of issues that are going to be things
people stumble across and oftentimes they're going to stumble across them. When they get inconsistent
results, things won't fail. But what they'll find is that all of a sudden the peers, the contents of the piers
databases start to diverge and you no longer have a single source of truth, which is a problem. Um, I
think, I think determinism is going to be a bit of a thing for people to have to learn how to write
deterministic code.

Yeah. I just kind of chuckling to myself as, as you were talking about that because we see this, at least I
do personally on the education side all the time. Um, you know, we get people kind of two groups who
come into the classes, the first group going, hey, I'm not very technical. I don't come from a, a long
technical background. Um, I'm probably in over my head. Right. And they're the ones who are worried.
Um, they tend to go take the exam and just ace it the first time. The people who fail it the first time by
and large and the developers to go in the back and go, ah, you know what? I got this; I've been writing
code for 30 years. Uh, you know, I've been doing this since the punch card days and you know, there,
there is like determinism so much about blockchain. If you've been in this space for a while, you must
unlearn everything, you know, and just adopt a new way of thinking.

Somebody else is going to happen is since we don't have good mechanisms to be able to do cross ledger,
uh, uh, transactions, um, you're going to end up, I think in many cases with the client application
because that's typically what you have, right? You don't have a user interact directly with the
blockchain. They're going to interact with an application that's using the blockchain. A lot of, I think so
that's something that coordination and workflow and all that sort of stuff, that's all going to sit outside
the smart contract, the smart contract. It's got to be relatively small, but you know, treat it as a pure
function. And if you do that, you get you, you'll be in much better shape. And I think that's going to be
some of, to say people must learn the hard way.

Like we do every 20 years it seems when one of these big sweeping changes comes, well, we got a few
minutes left. Let me turn it over to Chad cause I'm sure we're probably getting a lot of good comments
in the chat.

[Learn about the oracle offering.] The two places to look would be oracle.com/blockchain or
cloud.oracle.com/blockchain well they'll, they'll take you to two different locations, but the, both will
have, uh, all the information about our, our service or off our offering. Um, so that would be a good
thing. And as well, you know, we are based upon Hyperledger Fabric. It would be helpful if customers
are thinking about using our service to be familiar with that. Hyperledger is a website, has plenty of
information about Hyperledger Fabric. APIs where the, how he develop smart contracts, much of that.
We don't charge for any of the tooling of, of hours. All we charge for, as I say, as the transaction volume.
For small businesses, 500 transactions per hour, there's probably more than enough. And as you
mentioned, the cost, we're talking about three to $400 cost a month. The local corner store, a
convenience store may not have a need for that, but there'll be, I think a lot of cases where we'll see a
smaller, definitely medium sized businesses using this technology. I think what will also happen is you'll
see medium sized businesses creating services based upon blockchain that then are offered them to like
small businesses. Uh, you know what, what the things has been talked about are things like a micro
copyright, right? I can copyright information by just simply posting a hash of that information on this.
Somebody that's blockchain. Offering that as a service is probably going to be something that would
make a lot of sense.

[Future plans] We have, we have lots of them, one of these we're trying to do as well as make it easier
for customers to utilize the blockchain. Blockchain now becomes a sort of a separate island of
information. We also offer and our service is that we provide a mechanism to be able to transparently
take your transactions as they're being processed and write them to a relational database.

Once you've got them in a relational database, then you can use any kind of business intelligence or
business analytics tools to be able to look at your transactions. Because otherwise, the only way to get
access to the information is through a smart contract. A

There aren't any bi tools that I'm aware of that know how to invoke a smart contract. By buying my
siphoning off this information, giving that as an option though these then you can start applying some of
these traditional tools that we have used for a long time to be able to process this vast amount of
information. So, uh, but I, I, you know, I think the thing that I would say is for people is to, is to try this
stuff figured out. You know, where is, it's an area you can look at in your business. We are there some
friction where there's some trust issues and do a simple pilot or simple POC. We've had, we've had, you
know, our teams can help you do that. We've got situations where, and complete POC is done in a
couple of days. So, you know, I think that the thing here is to, don't be, don't be frightened by the
technology. Also test it. Don't, don't, don't buy the hype because sometimes the hype exceeds the
reality.

Don't get caught up in the hype. When you find a good blockchain use case, it's, it's pretty clear to
everyone involved that you found a good use case.

Managed cloud service

Blockchain as a service
Taking care of instance
Make Hyperledger primitive tools easier
Enhance fabric
Went live July 2018 -- 9 mths
Enterprise at scale
4 offerings:
 1. Track and trace
2. Provenance
3. Intelligent cold storage
4. Warranty usage

Will work on other applications

Freight
Olive oil
Early invoice paying
Transaction-based to make attractive and encourage high value

Oracle Unveils Business-Ready Blockchain Applications

Oracle Blockchain Applications enhance traceability and transparency throughout the value chain
Oracle OpenWorld, San Francisco, Calif.—Oct 23, 2018

To help customers increase trust and provide agility in transactions across their business networks,
Oracle has launched Oracle Blockchain Applications Cloud. The new suite of use-case-specific SaaS
applications enhance traceability and transparency throughout the supply chain. Oracle Blockchain
Applications are built with Oracle Blockchain Cloud Service and seamlessly connect with Oracle Supply
Chain Management (SCM) Cloud, Oracle Enterprise Resource Planning (ERP) Cloud and other Oracle
Cloud Applications.
Modern supply chains generate millions of data points and thousands of daily transactions that need to
be validated and confirmed. This limits the pace of business and exposes organizations to risk. Oracle
Blockchain Applications enable customers to track products through the supply chain on a distributed
ledger to increase trust in business transactions, get better visibility across a multi-tier supply chain,
accelerate product delivery and contract execution, and improve customer satisfaction.
“Consumers are better informed than ever before and are increasingly interested in what is in the
products they consume,” said Kyle Bozicevic, owner and brewer at Alpha Acid Brewing in Belmont,
California. “We can now track materials and premium ingredients from our suppliers and analyze sensor
data from the production process for each batch. Oracle Intelligent Track and Trace blockchain
application helps ensure that we are getting the highest quality hops, malt, and yeast, and enables us to
create a strong narrative around our products for customers.”
 Learn more about Alpha Acid Brewing’s use of Oracle Intelligent Track and Trace blockchain
application here: https://youtu.be/qz7Mj_tjyXk
Oracle’s business-ready blockchain applications reduce barriers to adoption of blockchain and provide
immediate business benefits to customers by improving trust and transparency in their business
network and transforming their supply chains. Oracle Blockchain Applications include:
 Intelligent Track and Trace – Enables end-to-end traceability of goods and transactions in supply
chains to reduce delays and automate record keeping. The application creates a digital trail of
each step in the business network, during procurement, manufacturing, and transportation. It
provides better visibility for easier root-cause analysis and faster dispute resolution. This helps
 customers execute targeted product recalls, resolve disputes, reduce counterfeits, improve
regulatory compliance, and protect against fraud.
 Lot Lineage and Provenance – Enables product genealogy, serialization, and provenance by
managing the lifecycle of hierarchical serial numbers, recording origin and authenticity of
product components, and tracking all transformations of the product. It helps in regulatory
compliance, targeted recalls, and preventing counterfeit components.
 Intelligent Cold Chain – Helps monitor and track the temperature-controlled supply chain,
creating recommendations to optimize processes and ensure the quality and safety of
refrigerated products in pharmaceutical and food and beverage industries.
 Warranty and Usage Tracking – Removes paper-based processes and automates usage tracking
for high-value assets. An auditable and verifiable log for warranty, liability claims, and insurance
helps expedite settlements and claim processing and prevents abuse of assets.
These applications are built with Oracle Blockchain Cloud Service, which was launched earlier this year.
It helps organizations build blockchain networks to drive more secure and efficient transactions with
their trading partners. Oracle’s blockchain platform has experienced tremendous momentum and has
been adopted by many global organizations spanning a wide range of industries and verticals including
transportation, supply chain and logistics, energy, retail and ecommerce, financial services,
telecommunications, and public sector. A few of the many organizations already using Oracle Blockchain
Cloud Service include Arab Jordan Investment Bank, CargoSmart, SERES, Certified Origins, Indian Oil,
Intelipost, MTO, Neurosoft, Nigeria Customs, Sofbang, Solar Site Design, and TradeFin.
“We are using Oracle Blockchain as our digital platform for shipment documentation, which helps us
easily track and trace shipping transactions,” said Lionel Louie, chief commercial officer, CargoSmart.
“Our goal is to help bring more trust and transparency into the industry. In fact, we expect a 65 percent
reduction in the amount of time required to collect, consolidate, and confirm data from multiple
parties.”
Oracle Blockchain Applications also leverage Internet of Things (IoT) connectivity and use embedded
artificial intelligence (AI) features to leverage real time data to improve the accuracy of data flowing in a
customer’s business network. Oracle develops emerging technologies in unison to provide intelligent
recommendations and better user experiences across the SaaS applications for supply chain, finance,
human resources and customer experience.
“Many technology companies are offering a blockchain platform for customers to build on, but we
wanted to go one step further. We use our domain expertise to create business, user-friendly, domain-
specific solutions so customers can get immediate value from blockchain technologies by transforming
existing business processes,” said Rick Jewell, Senior Vice President, Supply Chain & Manufacturing
Cloud Applications, Oracle. “Oracle Blockchain Applications make it easy for customers to create a
trusted network of partners to improve the agility, accuracy, and visibility of their supply chain. These
blockchain applications work seamlessly with existing Oracle Cloud Applications and are out-of-the-box
ready with pre-built integrations and business network templates for common business processes.”

Production-ready, enterprise-grade, integrated blockchain at scale

A third generation of blockchains have focused specifically on the needs of enterprises wanting to
deploy blockchains in full-scale production – boosting core enterprise-friendly capabilities (relating to
consensus mechanism choices, privacy features through channels and sidechains, etc.), and also
providing wrap-around tooling and integrations.
It’s here where major established enterprise technology vendors are setting out their stalls with a
spread of enterprise blockchain frameworks and tools, and blockchain-enabled applications, all
designed to operate and integrate in production environments.
Although there are still concepts to be proven in some potential blockchain usage scenarios, many
organisations are now starting to look beyond this phase to explore more about what the business
benefit is (to the individual enterprise, and to the wider ecosystem it inhabits as a whole). Projects
tend to succeed when there’s a line-of-business / organisational strategy sponsor; and where there’s
an understanding of the context in the market / ecosystem, as well as across the business.
Organisations are also looking to vendors with enterprise credentials to help their blockchain projects
make the jump to production and make blockchain technology work for them in the way the rest of
their IT works.
Many enterprise vendors are members of Hyperledger, and have offerings based on its projects (such
as the Fabric blockchain framework); some offer Ethereum-based solutions, tailored for the enterprise;
and R3 is marketing its Corda blockchain platform at use cases beyond its financial services base now
(there’s an open source version alongside a commercial variant, which sports enterprise extensions).
Notwithstanding the work of the EEA (described above), there’s also a range of third generation
blockchain platforms that have sprung up in an effort to plug Ethereum’s perceived gaps in meeting
enterprise needs. However, with the drive towards standardisation in the Ethereum landscape, and
the interoperability amongst the Hyperledger stable, smaller independent players will find it
increasingly difficult to differentiate a novel platform in a way that doesn’t put off enterprise buyers
(with their need for stability, reliability, scalability, interoperability, etc.).

Oracle’s Blockchain offering Oracle initially launched its Hyperledger Fabric-based Blockchain Platform at
its OpenWorld conference in October 2017, two months after the company joined the Linux
Foundation’s Hyperledger project. It became generally available, as Oracle Blockchain Platform, in July
2018 (offering the automated recovery capabilities inherent in Oracle Cloud Platform’s suite of
autonomous services). It’s a fully-managed PaaS (part of the Oracle Cloud Platform) built on the
Hyperledger Fabric permissioned blockchain framework. The Oracle Blockchain Platform features a
variety of enterprise-grade services that provide continuous backup, point-in-time recovery, rapid
provisioning, and simplify the operational management of a blockchain network. The product offers
plug-and-play integrations with key business applications within or through Oracle Cloud (leveraging
Oracle’s container lifecycle management, identity management, and event services), recognizing the
need to support heterogeneous environments – including on-premise environments and non-Oracle
clouds alongside Oracle Cloud (the Blockchain Cloud Service also provides support for interoperability
with non-Oracle Hyperledger Fabric instances). Oracle’s aim is to offer an enterprise-friendly platform
that leverages the advantages of blockchain to a customer base more at home with ‘traditional’ business
applications. The Oracle Blockchain Platform leverages Oracle’s enterprise-grade integration,
provisioning, support, and management capabilities to offer customers a platform designed to help
them take the next steps beyond proofs of-concept to bring production services online (with all the
attendant issues around scalability, onboarding, security, integration, etc.) Oracle has positioned its
Oracle Blockchain Platform as a distributed ledger cloud platform for customers looking either to build
new blockchain-based applications, and/or extend their current SaaS, PaaS, IaaS (ERP) and on-premises
applications with blockchain capabilities to provide “tamper resistant transactions on a trusted business
network.”. Oracle’s ‘extras’ (on top of Hyperledger Fabric) are designed to build on the open source
framework with capabilities that simplify and accelerate blockchain deployment, leverage identity
management cloud to provide high level of security protections, and provide tailored support for
specific use cases (through the involvement of the company’s industry teams) in the areas of ERP, supply
chain / manufacturing, and open banking. Oracle’s go-to-market approach for the Oracle Blockchain
Platform has four parts, focusing on:  Customers of its wider platform and on-premises applications. 
Targeting start-ups via the company’s start-up accelerator program; SaaS and packaged applications. 
Software vendors looking to incorporate blockchain into their offering or build on a pre-assembled
platform.  System integrators (global SIs, regional firms, and specialist blockchain boutiques).

Oracle Accelerates Adoption of Enterprise Blockchain Worldwide

Blockchain platform delivers new capabilities that accelerate business benefits
Redwood Shores, Calif.—Feb 12, 2019

Businesses around the world have already reaped the benefits of blockchain applications built on Oracle
Blockchain Platform. Companies using Oracle’s business-ready blockchain have been able to move from
experimentation to production by creating new blockchain applications from scratch or adding
blockchain functionality to an existing solution. To support its customers, Oracle has added new features
to the platform that help users speed up the development, integration, and deployment of new
blockchain applications.
While blockchain can greatly streamline many existing processes surrounding supply chain, identity,
cross-border payments, and fraud detection, businesses have struggled to implement blockchain
networks within their existing ecosystems. Oracle Blockchain Platform addresses this challenge by
streamlining the process of building and integrating blockchain applications across diverse business
networks and connecting them into the relevant business processes within these ecosystems.
“Oracle’s continued leadership and investment in enterprise blockchain technology ensures that the
platform has all of the critical capabilities organizations need to build blockchain applications to handle
their most important business transactions,” said Frank Xiong, group vice president, Blockchain Product
Development, Oracle. “The number of customers already running blockchain applications based on
Oracle’s blockchain platform is testament to the strength of the technology and the value it brings to a
broad range of industries.”
Worldwide Customers with Blockchain Apps in Use
Using blockchain applications, Oracle customers are establishing new ways to increase trust in diverse
ecosystems and increasing the speed, security and efficiency of a wide range of business processes.
Oracle’s rapidly growing list of global customers with production deployments on its enterprise-grade
blockchain platform include:
  China Distance Education Holdings Limited (CDEL) uses blockchain to share educational records
and professional certifications across many educational institutions to help employers and
recruiters verify the educational credentials claimed by individuals.
 Circulor uses blockchain to track conflict minerals from their origin at the mines to processing
and use in electronic components to ensure ethical sourcing of raw materials.
 SERES uses blockchain to bring greater trust and efficiency to electronic invoicing in franchise
networks, which share ordering and fulfillment data between franchisors and franchisees.
 Additionally, Arab Jordan Investment Bank, CargoSmart, Certified Origins, HealthSync, ICS
Financial Systems, NeuroSoft, Nigeria Customs, OriginTrail, SDK.Finance, and TradeFin have built
or integrated production-ready blockchain applications on Oracle Blockchain Platform.

“Oracle’s blockchain solution delivers enterprise performance, security and scalability right out-of-the-
box,” said Doug Johnson-Poensgen, CEO and founder of Circulor. “We started with the Oracle Blockchain
Platform four months ago and were able to go from zero to a production system spanning multiple
organizations involved in ethical sourcing of minerals within a matter of months. Another key advantage
is that we were able to integrate Oracle’s blockchain platform into a hybrid blockchain network
spanning multiple clouds and easily integrate with our existing systems and applications.”
“Blockchain improves the trust relationship between franchisor and the franchises by including best
practices and decentralized access to the transactions. Normally, merchandise acceptance processes
are manual and require an operator entering the data into the system. But, for example when a
franchise has economic problems, it can repudiate that delivery, saying that it never received the
merchandise. They can manipulate the database and, on the other hand, also the franchisor can
manipulate it,” said José María Mínguez Gutiérrez, Transactional Services Manager of SERES. “With
blockchain and its immutability and traceability of information, all these problems disappear and all
parties can trust the data and the transactions.”
Enhances Security, Developer Productivity and DevOps Capabilities
With this latest release, Oracle has added unique developer-oriented productivity enhancements and
consortium-oriented identity management features, which are critical to diverse organizations
conducting business transactions via a blockchain network. New DevOps capabilities make the platform
easier to integrate with existing business and IT systems. Additionally, as blockchain becomes an
important data store in the enterprise, the platform enables Oracle Autonomous Data
Warehouse customers to transparently capture blockchain transaction history and current state data for
analytics and to integrate it with other data sources. New features include:
 Enhanced world state database to support standard SQL-based ledger queries reducing the
complexity of developing chaincode using readily available programming skills, ensure smart
contracts can safely rely on the query results, which are verified at transaction commit, and
significantly boost performance of rich data queries.
 Rich history database shadows transaction history into a relational database schema in the
Autonomous Data Warehouse or other Oracle databases, which transparently enables analytics
integration for interactive dashboards and reports.
  Enhanced REST APIs for event subscription, blockchain administration/configuration, and
monitoring of network health, transaction rates, and other statistics, which simplify integration
with existing enterprise IT tools.
 Identity federation further extends authentication capabilities to work with external identity
providers to facilitate consortium blockchains with many diverse participants using their existing
identity management systems.
 Third-party certificate support for registering client organizations on the blockchain network to
enable them to use existing certificates issued by trusted third parties.
 Hyperledger Fabric 1.3 support, which adds many new features based on the evolving open
source version, including chaincode development in Java, further leveraging existing enterprise
skills, and support for private transactions among a subset of members, preserving privacy and
business confidentiality. This demonstrates Oracle’s commitment to stay current with the
Hyperledger community by leveraging new releases and contributing to the open source
community.

About Oracle Blockchain

Only Oracle provides a comprehensive blockchain offering, including business-ready Oracle Blockchain
Applications Cloud and Oracle Blockchain Platform for developers who need to build or integrate their
applications. Oracle’s blockchain applications are built with OracleBlockchain Platform and seamlessly
connect with Oracle Supply Chain Management (SCM) Cloud, Oracle Enterprise Resource Planning (ERP)
Cloud and other Oracle Cloud Applications. Oracle Blockchain Platform is production ready with
enterprise-grade capabilities, easy to adopt, and quick to develop upon, accelerating customer’s
blockchain journeys and saving their costs.

Oracle Blockchain Verifies Real Honey

Mary Hall

At the recent Oracle OpenWorld Dubai show, Oracle showed a demonstration of how natural Honey can
be verified by blockchain. You may wonder, well, why would anyone need Honey verified by
blockchain? You may be surprised to learn that Honey is one of the most frequently impure or
mislabeled foods. In recent years, Honey mixed with impure ingredients such as sugar, salt, corn syrup
and even toxins has been found at grocery suppliers and retailers.
According to research by Food Safety News, as much as 76% of the Honey sold in grocery stores is fake.
Some of it even contains toxins which can make people very ill. With the increase of fake Honey flooding
the market, the importance of making the provenance and the origin of Honey transparent to
consumers, via labeling powered by blockchain, can not be underestimated. Putting Honey on the
blockchain can literally save people lives by identifying potentially harmful ingredients. In an article
exploring the honey laundering industry, Wide Open Eats identifies that some fake Honey contains,
Chloramphenicol, an antibiotic banned in the U.S. that has been linked to cancer and is dangerous to
some people.
Preventing the sale of fake Honey with blockchain technology
The sale of fake honey or impure Honey, could be prevented by verifying that the Honey hasn’t been
tampered with by using blockchain technology. Ultra-filtration, a process that removes all the naturally,
beneficial pollen from honey in order to make the Honey last longer on retail shelves, make it impossible
to tell the original country of origin. This means food regulators can’t screen for fake honey by common
countries of origin like China or India. This raises an interesting question, just because the label on the
jar says pure organic Honey, how does the consumer really know if that is true?
Caroline Denoon-Slater, of the Oracle UK team, explains how blockchain can be used to verify Honey
ingredients and solve the problem of contaminated Honey entering the supply chain. "It's all about
trying to guarantee the security and authenticity of the raw Honey,” says Caroline Denoon-Slater.
"We're identifying that there are no additional processes being applied to it."
Although there are a multitude of articles and guides available about how consumers can identify fake
Honey by tasting it, or looking at it carefully, these methods are far from fool proof, and don't
necessarily help consumers before they buy Honey.
Using unique identifiers to verify real Honey
Oracle has developed a solution to the fake Honey challenge by working with IoT technology via the
World Hive Network. The technology helps identity which bee hives have been harvested. Oracle pulls
that information into the Oracle Blockchain Platform. There are a number of key identifiers that Oracle
looks at and collects in order to verify the Honey.

"We look at the health of the bees, we look at the temperature of the bees, we look at the amount of
honey that's been produced, that they need to maintain in order to get them through the winter, and
then we take the rest of the harvest and we can go through the processes either by crushing it, by taking
the honey comb, or purifying or fermenting that Honey,” notes Caroline Denoon-Slater of Oracle.
Any and all information collected in either scenario, can be stored in the blockchain and shared
throughout the supply chain between the different parties involved from grower/producer to retailer.
All of this identifiable information can help qualify the Honey as authentic. This means when consumers
look at the label on the bottle of Honey in the store, consumers will then be able to identify the honey
as real and see where the Honey has come from to help ensure their health and the health of their
families.

The future of Honey verification with blockchain

There are a number of other pieces of data that Oracle is investigating to further aid in honey
verification:
• Checking the type of pollen against that from plants in the locality of the hives where the honey was
harvested. For example, if the honey contains maple pollen and the hive is in Reading, UK this could
indicate the honey has been tampered with as maple doesn’t grow in Reading.
• Recording the pollen “signature” at source and then comparing it with a sample taken further down
the supply chain to see if it has been tampered with (e.g. filtered or diluted.)
• Analysis of the habitat surrounding the hives. It’s more likely and economically practical that any
“standard” applied to honey would be based on how the farm is being managed – for example the
farmer is setting aside a percentage of the land to grow pollinator friendly plants all year round. We can
monitor this by analyzing aerial images of the land and analyzing how the land is divided.
To continue their work with blockchain for verifying Honey, Oracle is partnering with the World Bee
Project and Professor Simon Potts, who is global advisor on pollination to the European Union,
Convention on Biological Diversity and United Nations. Professor Potts is working with us on the World
Hive Network which is the starting point for gathering information for the blockchain based on the
weight of the hives before and after harvesting.

Ensuring sustainability and ethical sourcing with Oracle Blockchain Platform

Mark Rakhmilevich
SENIOR DIRECTOR, BLOCKCHAIN PRODUCT MANAGEMENT

Ethical sourcing of minerals sounds rather abstract until you look at your mobile phone or other
electronics and realize that its full of capacitors that contain trace quantities of Africa-mined tantalum –
primarily sourced in Rwanda and the DRC. Our mobile phones, game consoles, and computers may all
contain traces of this mineral.
In the last 15 years major sources of this rare earth metal, whose high capacitance value per volume
enables very thin capacitors for use in small devices, shifted from Australia to Africa, primarily in
Rwanda and Congo. The former has good reputation for mining, but in DRC the government controls
are spotty and in some areas mining is controlled by armed rebels, which have been accused of using
child labor in dangerous conditions and trading proceeds to fund weapons purchases that perpetuate
the conflicts in that war-torn country.
Solving the Compliance Issues Around Ethical Sourcing of Conflict Minerals
Do you know if the tantalum capacitors in your iPhone are made from the ore that came out of the
conflict zone or ones that have been ethically sourced? Most of us never think about these kind of
issues. However, the Dodd-Frank Act in US and similar legislation around the world means that
companies must trace the source of these conflict minerals and ensure they only use accredited
sources. Pity the poor purchasing or compliance managers who have to wade through stacks of signed
paper forms or dozens of mind-numbing excel spreadsheets from all the companies involved in mining,
refining, transportation, component manufacturing, and assembly and somehow certify end-to-end
compliance with ethical sourcing.
Enter Circulor – a UK based company that partnered with Oracle to solve this challenge using Oracle
Blockchain Platform.
In today’s world, the compliance and tracking burden falls mainly on the miners to ensure they can
prove chain of custody from a certified mine all the way to refiners and component manufacturers. In
addition to potential for fraud in paper based processes, the manual tracking effort is susceptible to
human errors, missed paperwork, etc. Circulor has automated this process end-to-end providing
paperless, real-time reporting with immutable blockchain records that seamlessly maintain the full chain
of custody using a blockchain solution to track the bags of ore as they are tagged at the mine through
the aggregation and transport to the refineries, then track the refined materials to the component
makers, and the components to the OEMs.
Circulor’s Track and Trace Technology for the Mining Supply Chain
The sophisticated “Circulor Protocol” starts with facial recognition using mobile phone app and includes
GPS location monitor, mass balance calculations throughout every step, container tracking, and
ultimately product ID tracking using QR codes. It’s designed to solve what is perhaps the toughest
challenge in blockchain-based track and trace – linkage from physical objects to digital records. Once a
digital record and its computed hash are on the blockchain it can be safely tracked through the product
journey. But ensuring that the physical goods correspond to their digital records, particularly when bags
of ore are smelted by the refinery into capacitor grade powder or metal products, such as tubes and
wires, requires complex mass balance calculations and additional tracking measures to ensure that
unauthorized ore is not added to the supply chain at any point.
Expediting Blockchain Infrastructure with Oracle
With all these complications, Circulor had enough to worry about without spending lots of time and
effort on blockchain infrastructure. They turned to the Oracle Blockchain Platform to provide a pre-
assembled, hardened blockchain that can operate across multiple continents and multiple clouds. As
Doug Johnson-Poensgen, CEO and founder of Circulor, says, “We started with the Oracle Blockchain
Platform four months ago and were able to go from zero to a production system spanning multiple
organizations involved in ethical sourcing of minerals within a matter of months.” That’s Oracle’s
strategy in a nutshell – making blockchain a ready-to-use production-grade infrastructure for companies
that are looking to solve real challenges and would rather focus on real world applications of blockchain
than the science experiment of putting one together.
What’s next for Circulor? Electric car manufacturers who depend on ethically mined cobalt for their
electric vehicle batteries. The demand is expected to more than double in the next decade and the
proportion coming from DRC is expected to rise above 70%. Did you know that the ramp-up in electric
vehicles depends squarely on ethical sourcing of cobalt from one of the most volatile countries in the
world? Stay tuned for updates on cobalt tracking using Oracle blockchain.

Blockchain Supply Chain App for Intelligent Track & Trace

Mary Hall
DIRECTOR, ORACLE BLOCKCHAIN PRODUCT MARKETING

Blockchain technology offers greater transparency and a single source of truth for for participants using
supply chain networks. Intelligent track and trace of orders, goods and delays via blockchain could
expedite the sending and receipt of goods.
Today’s supply chains produce multiple data points often times resulting in thousands of daily
transactions that need to be validated and confirmed.
While all this "big data" data presents opportunities, it can also be incredibly difficult to manage,
especially if that data isn’t properly validated by all parties. The lack of validation can expose
organizations to risk, especially if they are trying to track supply chain goods that are regulated by
law. For supply chain tracking, blockchain technology offers some unique benefits.
 Traceability: Full audit tail of data throughout the supply chain
 Compliance: Single, timestamped, tamper-proof source of data
 Flexibility: Real-time rule-based verification of multi-party confirmations
 Reliable transactions: Trusted digital signature based peer to peer interactions
Intelligent Track and Trace on Blockchain for Supply Chain
This week at the Oracle Modern Business Experience (MBX) show in Las Vegas, Oracle will show a
Blockchain Supply Chain Application designed to help organizations meets some of the business
problems posed by supply chain networks.
In late 2018, Oracle announced a new suite of Blockchain Applications at Oracle OpenWorld. Since the
announcement, Oracle has been closely collaborating with early adopters to gather their feedback to
help design the Blockchain Apps. At MBX, March 19-21 in Las Vegas, Oracle experts will share
aggregated learnings from their design partner engagements and take a deep dive into our first
Blockchain Application Offering: Oracle Intelligent Track and Trace.
The Oracle Blockchain App for Intelligent Track and Trace uses Oracle Blockchain Platform (a Cloud
PaaS) to securely record business transactions across the supply chain. The Oracle Blockchain App uses
fine-grained access control to provide track-and-trace reporting, insights and analytics based on the
trading partner’s privileges on the network. The design team's use cases run across variety of industries,
including:
• Product provenance tracking from manufacturing plant to retail store for a Top 10 retailer.
• Drug efficacy control through chain of custody logs for a Fortune 50 pharmaceutical company.
• Traceability & control from farm to fork for an international meat producer.
• Anti-counterfeit parts traceability for large automotive manufacturer.
• Regulatory compliance for international cosmetic manufacturer.

Blockchain – Are you really ready?

Oracle Cloud
Blockchain, the cloud-based distributed ledger, is one of the hottest emerging business technologies and
has clearly become one of the latest buzzwords. But how do you know whether you are ready to deploy it
for your company?
Blockchains provide a shared, immutable, secure record of transactions across a business network, so
embarking upon a blockchain project will require commitment to a process that goes beyond one’s own
organization or business. It also means joining or creating an extended business network to improve the
processes.
CargoSmart, a Hong Kong-based software solutions provider, has approached its business from that
angle and has developed an application that cuts the complexity of documentation in global commerce.
The solution speeds up the process of collecting and confirming data from parties along the supply chain
by nearly two-thirds, e.g. reducing clearance at customs and time consuming inspections, while boosting
data accuracy and helping to avoid costly disputes. "Blockchain technology provides immutable records
and a trusted network to offer secure and traceable documentation,” Steve Siu, CEO of CargoSmart,
says.
The other question to answer is whether you need to verify or authenticate a digital or physical asset
across the network or business chain. While the most obvious form of blockchain is in authenticating
digital assets like music or digital wallets, it also applies to physical assets. Certified Origins, a Tuscany,
Italy-based community of small family farms is producing extra virgin olive oil that is exported to the US.
Following its motto "trust through traceability," the Tuscans are deploying blockchain to boost
transparency across its supply chain. Consumers value brands like Belluci providing provenance "from
the tree to the shelf," Andrea Biagianti, CIO of Certified Origins, says.
In this case, not only does the asset need to tracked at every point in the supply chain, it also means that
there is faith and trust ultimately in all the suppliers involved in that chain.
Like many technologies, while blockchain will certainly bring efficiencies and transparency to any
transactions, deploying blockchain effectively means breaking down siloes, both within the organisation
and way beyond. The success of blockchain relies on leaders that think and reach out beyond their
traditional perimeter and are willing paradoxically, to take a risk that will lead to a more trustworthy
business environment.
Blockchain can help revolutionize current business processes in the following ways:
1. Track & Trace: Enable distributed, autonomous marketplaces by allowing asset owners to
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private "chain" of transactions without need for reconciliation. This capability adds speed and
flexibility to cash and asset management.
2. Speed: Accelerate business transactions through automated smart contracts, instant payments,
and Internet of Things (IoT)-activated shipments. Without conflicting data and paper-based
processes, errors and missing information are reduced and business transactions can happen in
seconds instead of days or months.
3. Security: Manage and secure decentralized private records with encryption of each individual
data record or element using a blockchain member’s key. This is not to say that blockchain
makes all data 100% secure, but a cybercriminal would need to have access to each key of each
member to access all of the blockchain data.
4. Provenance: Verify the authenticity of products, ingredients and raw materials to guarantee
product quality and safety by making activities, like the recall of defective products like auto
parts or spoiled lettuce, much faster and more effective. Goods can also be authenticated to
prevent fakes.

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We are based upon fabric. We were extended fabric in several ways. We've replaced the state database
with a replacing a level DB with a Berkeley database. And then we've layered in sequel layer on top of
that. If you're familiar with fabric, normally to be able to do things like rich queries and stuff like that
and you're checking code, you must come these out. The result to using couch DV, which is dramatically
slower, as much less expressive in terms of the kind of queries that you can make. We also provide than
a management console. We provide the rest of proxy because we anticipate a lot of companies are
going to use blockchain has an integration platform, do other type things like multiple ERP systems
together. And to do that with a blockchain, if this is our most others, you need to use an SDK or do that
and you have to have an SDK for language that your ERP system is written there.

Speaker 1: So great providing arrest API, most ERP systems, most packaged applications can make
less calls and can receive breast calls. So that basically provided blockchain eater or Russ proxy, the
interface to the blockchain, you're going to be able to integrate those things much easier. We're also,
uh, uh, unique in terms of how we price the service. The service is priced on a per transaction basis. So
instead of, uh, acquiring a bunch of he sources and having to pay for all those resources you pay on a
per transaction basis. And finally, what we're doing with a lot of our SAS applications, oracle has a large
variety of SAS applications. We are integrating those Sass applications with our blockchain service. So
things like supply chain management, track and trace, all those sorts of applications now that are
provided by our SAS applications will now be able to do that over a blockchain so that multiple
organizations can use those applications and can't have a single source of truth.

Speaker 2: Thanks time. I like this guy is very nice at work. I'm not kidding. Is pig is Todd's involved
with it? I've had the opportunity to get to work with them quite a bit. Um, I think, uh, when you, uh,
chose the blockchain platform for tide, what were your considerations and what did you go with? And I
ask you to,

Speaker 4: I look for us, for us with the process of building from the ground up, the type protocols
and open source protocol, uh, and it really needs to be able to ensure that consumers were able to
handle the revisions to their data in a, um, with a time of throughput that is necessary for that to be
able to run it for dramatic speeds. Otherwise we'd break the whole concept. Yeah. Um, so the decision
to be able to implement a, a version of Ios was really built around the concept of we need to have the
throughput speeds. We need to be against your insured, that consumers are able to control permissions,
access to their data effectively in this closest possible to read real time. Um, and to be able to support
massive scalable adoption on the global level. Uh, and you can imagine every time a business, a dos, it's
high protocol, it actually creates an encore. It's a Thai bullet for every single one of its consumers. So it's
not necessarily a linear progression. You're really stop taking progression to do that. And then you'd
make some modification to an existing chain and ensure that we can provide the right resources and
child first chapters in,

Speaker 3: um, was to make all blockchain, which probably was quite unique at a time because it'll
all trophy or, or what, whichever. So at a time we add not really. Yeah. Um, so the capability, we need it
most with smart contracts and the it guy at a time. So with when we speak through the old was the long
in the way it's actually because in case we actually surpassed the demand and you know, we've actually
really need the speed and transaction. The warrior is the user input and hope and then we will be
adding to move to somewhere else relatively fast. So that was probably does a key, um, um, do, they
should point, you know, really for us to use their name and all one last 15 months after the echo, we did
actually found a speed issue and lots of other uh, kind of, um, does uh, defects.

Speaker 3: So what we decided to do if we actually moved back to [inaudible] and we were able to
scale up very dramatically and it really, um, you know, get in a week, we too much being uncomfortable,
really scale is fees and dramatically reduce the cost. Oh, remember we understand a lot of transactions
people's do would lock to publish on the apartment. So what we did, what we do, we now he to give
people choice. If they actually decide to keep them for whatever reason and they can keep it. But if they
want to go public net, we actually looked at stat class and also we are introducing all utility coin too.
Um, we got the, the transparency between the IRB committee, so making sure everything's in New York.

Speaker 4: The question for you, how do we handle key management to service because that's a
key component. Yeah, look, that's um, that's an excellent question. Um, I think the question of team
management goes to the question really of how do we get mainstream adoption of blockchain because
none of us really want to be able to or are able to memorize of our public private keys or carried them
around or um, and if we cannot get mainstream adoption of blockchain, then we can't get the option to
the type protocol. So for us to be able to talk to more college should say it's been almost four years in
the baking now. So for us to be able to, um, have a chance, did that mainstream adoption, we need to
solve that question. And the way that we went about it really is, I'm part of a couple of pigments that
are sitting within the tie.

Speaker 4: The tie protocol and that is we're now able to mimic a username, password experience
or your public private keys and a completely decentralized permissionless public blockchain, which
means that it really does pass the grandma test. If your grandma knows how to sign up with the
username and password. She's valuable to manage your wallets and to engage with the tide interface.
And, and that was a huge piece. I've gotta be honest with this volume on the areas where we spent the
single most amount of time working on that. Uh, but cracking that allows us to be able to get to
mainstream adoption.

Speaker 2: No, this is just a, a fun fact. We have, we have an Australia that moved here that started
a business in the United States and then we have someone that was raised in California and then to
Australia to start this business. So it's not fine. So, and then when we're just regular old Americans, he's
from Chicago. I'm from Akron, Ohio and I moved down here a long enough to say, how many of Y'all five
years ago? Um, so the question for both of you, like you to tell me what the top two or three things that
made you choose the location for your business?

Speaker 3: I actually was working from Melbourne and what I found very quickly and distant Tom
Difference really was [inaudible] I was up all night and because we also had an international team in Asia
Pacific or you guys were headed to Europe, it's really a 24 hour operation. And um, under the main
reasons because my business partner was based in New York and he achieved from the state
background and we have very deep a connection, uh, in the industry. So it's really the opportunity
presented to myself and New York was the right place for this business. But in a way I always feel very
strongly I want to agree. Shanti flew back to Australia and Australian identity as well because, um, I have
to admit, you know, nothing that comes to life as a magic in any person who achieves a certain level of
success really comes down to how you will raise there, how, what sort of education you got and your
working spirit of silk. Most of my life is really spent in Australia, so I hope one day I can repay, you know
what [inaudible] has been for me. Oh Wow.

Speaker 4: Well, um, I grew up in Compton on Slawson and Avalon in Los Angeles and uh, that's
about light years away from, uh, from Sydney, Australia. Uh, and if I moved there probably about 30
years ago after spending an educational and you're abroad and for a very long time and I never looked
back. Um, but every time I do come back to La Verne between, to come back those days and you just
can't, there's this feeling of belonging wherever you sort of grew up. Um, our reason for starting the
business in Australia really is to be honest with you guys that our tech team is basically the Gold Coast
for the simple reason that they are map kite surfers and they work crazy hours but they're just not
moving. They're not going to go anywhere because that's the Best Kite surfing there is an Australian and
that's the answer to that. Right.

Speaker 2: That's noted. Thank you from that a little bit. And uh, and back nor to blockchain. Um,
one of the things that I found, uh, as, as, as someone who sells block chain solutions is that the most
difficult thing is to, um, is to find a group of participants for the blockchain network. For instance, if I'm
speaking with a company that manufacturers alcohol for instance, there's a number of other
participants that they would need in order for a blockchain solution to make sense. So it's not just
centralized. And those participants might be the distributors. It might be the logistics companies, it
might be the actual stores, but it's not the same thing as, as selling. Um, uh, in e commerce website for
instance, which by the way, as the other thing I do, but um, it's, it's, it's much more complex. And my
question for Todd is how do you help to organize those participants for block chain network?

Speaker 1: Well, that's a great question. Uh, we, we run an on call consortium blockchains. So that's
a, a couple of members, typically a founding member, then ask the other members to join. The
consortium for me is probably one of the more difficult aspects of, uh, what I would call and these
permission it, you have to decide who can participate, what are the rules for participation, how do you
add new members, how do you remove number should they would be violating the agreements? So
there's a whole sort of the legal requirements or, or organizational requirements or things that you have
to address that have nothing to do with the technology. The other part of it is, is you have to also show
that there's value to doing this. And that's the, one of the more difficult parts as well. Because you ever
go to somebody, typically you should switch from Julian.
Speaker 1: What you're doing right now, we're just typically a centralized system and you want to
go to a decentralized system. What is the value to that? And so if they're a permission block chain, you
don't have to, there's no monetization, don't think of it. You have to figure out what the business value.
And so it's the things like transparency, the lack of uh, reconciliation, being able to disintermediate your
intermediaries so you can get rid of the banks and stuff like that if could do any trade finance. So you
have to find those business values are a key to that particular organization and the organizations that
they do business with reform with. We're focusing primarily on business to business transactions. And
so those, you have to, all the businesses that are involved, you have to get some value out of it. You
can't typically get, you know, be like Walmart who told all of their suppliers, you have to put RFID chips
on every package that comes in through our shipping warehouses. Right? That's not going to work in a
blockchain environment typically. Otherwise you really bad to a centralized system because you need
decentralized control besides decentralized technology.

Speaker 2: Can you give me the answer? Yeah. And just, just briefly because we want to make sure
that we have time for questions. Um, uh, chow, what are the, what are the, what the participants in
your network might be? Uh, things like the, the, the real estate agent, the person buying the house, the
uh, the uh, mortgage company, the, the, um, the, the um, you know, I think it's not the real estate kind
of an attorney and accountant, that type of thing. So how do you organize those participants and make
it so they can get into the block chain network?

Speaker 3: I will, um, if you want to take block chain to a real world application and mass adoption,
people don't need to know is approaching behind and they all were, they need to know is that this
application was packed on really solving my colon and give me benefits. So the way we act, traction, it
really, we don't want to emphasize this branch in this auction is the, uh, application really trans people's
lives. So how we open us there, we have a issue. So whoever he see it is a transaction the buyer making
offer, who would it be a leasing agent issue a deal and the issue will actually initiate that. And then the
rest halls, um, they basically will either get say, okay, I'm the buyer, the listing agent will advocate at
tech state of those being made on your optic. And then they can actually come in and Cetera as well.

Speaker 3: And other, uh, at Tony's and um, talk to authors, et Cetera. It will all just flow. And I'm
so it's very easy for people to enroll. They don't need to know even shelter, this is the shotgun I fault or
what it is, you know, is yeah, take action on that Opti or something I need to do. And then they actually
smoothed it. The text is the s email did enroll into rough Chen did they become the blockchain user?
And we actually issued them the walnut if they don't have one. So, so on the spot, they actually now
have a wallet. They don't even sometimes go either way, you know, the, the [inaudible] and, but we do
educate them along the way about you. You need to really assess your, um, your private key because
this is basically, you know, your, your key to all your documents and the transactions I think

Speaker 4: really is about the creation of the three sided marketplace that starts with, um, the
adoption by fender of the golden source. Free to use protocol, which solves a massive real world
problem for them today. No one wants to be the next Mary off. No one wants to be the next Fairfax,
Equifax or Facebook. Um, everybody wants to make sure they stay off the front of days with the
newspaper. And adopting the type protocol means that it's not just a, you've got a system and a process
and resources in place to protect your database. Adopting type protocol means they no longer have that
poison inside your database. The personal data's now handed back to the consumer. It's, um, it's a
deceivingly elegant solution because what a business adopts that protocol and now introduces
inventory into a deck work. That inventory is your personal data. Which means that we can now
introduce marketers who are today looking to talk to you, but today they're buying your data from
businesses that are selling it without your consent, using it, without your consent and without my
knowledge. So those businesses that have adopted the protocol has given you back that control of the
data marketers come and talk to you with your permission and you are now part of the value chain. The
vendor gets a percentage of that money. And so do you all league with your consent. So for us, growth
really is about solving a problem for businesses today in an open source manner that allows them to
implement the protocol and solve that issue. And by doing that we create a three sided marketplace.

Speaker 3: Okay.

Speaker 4: Hear a lot about g and

Speaker 2: uh, you know, I've noticed that some industries are kind of bubbling up to the top with
being the first and like you said, there has to be some tangible benefit for them to be able to want to get
involved. Um, so what industries I, I'm going to throw him out supply chain out there because that's the
one that it has the biggest buzz right now as far as I can tell. Um, but what, what are some of the
industries you think and uh, and then coming year or two that will be the first to run with these
blockchain solutions. We're seeing interest in pretty much all our rebuttals.

Speaker 1: So a supply chain is as an example, you know, track and trace even want to be able to
know the apartments of their food. Do you recall the, the black, the last [inaudible] let us, let us basically
across the country it was removed from the shelf because they weren't sure the source on it. It's
something about track and trace. You can track and trace the, the, the Clark goods, whatever it happens
to be from the titans, defense produce the time shift with that is put on the shelf. And so things like
recalls and stuff like that that can embrace it. We're seeing it in healthcare. We have a company that's
going to be using blockchain and track heart patients because oftentimes after the heart surgery, there's
a lot of monitoring that then you can take place. And then we all make sure that they catch any kind of
problems before it ends up being potentially a fatal issue.

Speaker 1: So we've seen it in health care also, if we're in the pharmaceuticals, pharmaceuticals
especially, we've been reported that in India, 30% of the drug sold there are counterfeit. And so what
they're looking for ways to be able to ensure the authenticity of the drug. So that's tracking with the
materials that went into it, how the drug, they're things like how old shift when a shipment of the
copper conditions making it to the proper temperature. So those sorts of things. We're seeing things like
real estate. So we're seeing a lot of influence as a clan titles and a blockchain or certifications. So
University certification agencies such as the ANA or other organizations would be able to place certain
circuits certificates or graduate records or, uh, or university records on a blockchain and do it in such a
way that it gives you the access to the ability to be able to determine who you're going to give that
information to. You guys right now, like the university records, do you write the university, they send
you a sealed envelope, you know, take that to a prospective employer or whoever else, uh, whereas this
could all be automated on a blockchain and you'd be able to maintain the records there and give sort of
like what we call accountable access to confidential information. So what he at in pretty much all the, all
the vertical industries that we're involved with,

Speaker 2: I just fell in love with that. Kind of a two part question. Um, what role do you see
government playing in the adoption of block chain curriculum for regulatory compliance? And will the
public know, like will there be like a little block chain inside sticker or is this just something that they'll
go, oh, well this is uh, uh, you know, Mcdonald's applications where I can trust it. You know,

Speaker 1: somebody asked, how would I approve my application is using blockchain and I'm not
sure I have a good answer for that. Uh, there's, you know, designed to deal with trust boundaries and so
there's gotta be some trust in the system. So presumably you're trusting who's ever the application
you're using and then they're taking trusted relationships with whoever they're getting the information
or whomever they're transacting with. So we'll see. We'll ask what role the government, the
government is, is, is struggling right now just to deal with as a cryptocurrency, they, they've not done a
lot that I've seen around watching himself. Although Europe has made blockchain life much more
difficult because of the GDPR general data protection requirements. Those basically say that you have
the right to be forgotten, that somebody who collects personal information on you at any point in time,
you can tell them, erase that information. We're looking about block chain and block chain. The data
records are immutable. You can't change that. You can't modify it. I'm going to have any integrity that
you're launching a new ways and authentic ways cause like anonymous credentials or encryption or
other techniques to be able to store information on the blockchain that would allow that information to
be able to be forgotten with such as maybe encryption and bleeding and a key or something like that.

Speaker 4: That's, that's my selling point for us. The question of, um, the right to be forgotten,
which is, which is a, you know, a great intent, but try and implement that in the technology stack where
your data that goes across years here, I'm your account and your email, it's almost impossible, right? Uh,
it actually becomes incredibly simple time because you have the key. So all you really have to do,
metaphorically speaking is probably the key and the business could no longer access your data. They
have forgotten about you. Um, and that's, I think that's an excellent point.

Speaker 1: I think another area, what's going to be an easy thing is around regulation as sort of the
legal aspects of it. So if I put something on a blockchain, what kind of legal proof is that provided fat of a
transaction? And I don't think we've tested those waters yet. So I think there's going to be regulations
around this about how do I, how do I ensure that if somebody comes up with some data on the
blockchain and I've got proof, I've got a hash of that data, is that sufficient proof? So that data was
actually there. That's something we have to find out. So I think there'll be a lot of legal regulations that
are coming out from this, but it's largely uncharted waters, I think.

Speaker 2: Yeah, they did. Some of them may come from Colorado where I understand you're
getting ready to head up to

Speaker 1: challenges.

Speaker 2: No, just passed legislation mandating that block TVs explored in 17 different state
agencies. So you're going to have your hands full up there. Um,

Speaker 3: it's not kind of explicitly, but even it's really the complete Ed. So I think that's really
encouraging. Yeah.

Speaker 2: And, um, I've got you, I want to ask you to, um, what is like your favorite blockchain use
case that you've heard of beyond your own, uh, project? Uh, and if it's in Australia that's even better. I
want to put you on the spot though.
Speaker 3: He'll prompt him or play a major role in Colombia. So not necessarily from the next
iteration and governments truly with so much from prompt you. And then last year the Lord actually
released to their research and flicking this thing, um, governments around the world entry spe and the
Rob Chen with pollution. And the biggest mistake you can make now is do nothing. So are really feel,
um, you know, the uh, to be able to get the crop to really penetrate across the whole society and
governments and they're making a role to play. And also along the ivies journey, they can discover so
many big news cases and in a Volti resolution, politics, you know, and also, um, bond issue. We
shouldn't debt and investments, financial, you know, just so many areas they can really benefit. So I
believe these would all really like to see what is happening. Yeah.

Speaker 1: I think one thing to come and has the advantage of, at least in many jurisdictions, you
have to have complete transparency. So they don't have to worry about this as much as my confidential
information. Things like records or it, something like that. That's all public information. He's like
legislation, all that's public information. So what that means most simpler for them to be able to talk
some of this technology where you don't have those privacy concerns.

Speaker 2: And I hear it's even more simple in Australia. That's what I've been told that, that the,
uh, legislation is, is a, in the bodies to deal with. There are more simple than the United States with you.

Speaker 4: Really more simple. But I think we, uh, big in Australia, please be personally, uh, you
know, I really didn't have a lot of faith in government. Um, uh, and I, I, to be honest, it didn't have a lot
of the trash. Um, but I was unbelievably surprised last year because in Australia, the government's
putting in place the consumer data rights act, which is similar to the Gdpr, um, in, in your, um, but this
time the government is actually taking it a step further and said that every business that wants to whole
personally identifiable information actually needs to apply the snail mail application style. You go to get
accreditation. But at the same time they acknowledged that that really isn't something that is scalable.
So we actually had, uh, an outreach from the Australian government back, tie it saying, hey, you know,
we'd love for you guys to put forward a submissions for a technological pathway to accreditation
because type really just takes a legal code, legal, uh, uh, illegal framework converts it into code. And so
this is the, it's often type phone calls by default now through complete transparency in the block chain
acting within the law. And that's something that's completely scalable. So, you know, I really have seen a
massive shift within governments recognizing the Transparency Angle, um, which allows for so much
password with mutation in so many areas that they really are. And Kiki. And I think that's, you know,
that, that's, that's a huge step forward.

Speaker 2: That's great. Um, that's, that sounds like it's easier to work with then what we've got
here. Um, I also point out that, uh, what are the, probably the very first use case that I heard was the
diamond mined diamond mine, uh, the, the, the tracing of diamonds to make sure that they're out there
and find out the provenance of them and where they would do, uh, um, uh, some type of a photograph
of the diamonds that they could actually, uh, would actually become a crypto anchor and tie that into
the, the whole block chain. Uh, and that was Everledger and they're, they're an Australian company.
And, um, so with that, um, uh, that is the, we're about out of time, but we have, we have, uh, about 15,
20 minutes for questions. So let's start here

Speaker 5: and you'll be fine.

Speaker 1: Yeah, I think you could do that, but I'm not, I'm not sure that's a really good use case
because the government is the issue or backed currency. And so having a centralized database
appropriately acceptable solution. Yeah. That's one of the things that we always look at it when we
talked to customers or prospective customers for our service is we, the first thing I asked him is can
problem be solved by a centralized database? And if the answer to that is yes, no questions, you're
done. We use a centralized database or easier, he'd been using them for many decades. We know the
design patterns, we know how to use them. Don't go down that path. But if your business use cases,
absolutely, oh no, I have trust issues, other things, then that's when it makes sense to go to the
decentralized solution. But I think for, for counterfeiting, I think it would be very easy if the government
offered as a service that somebody could scan a bill and they would go, oh, okay, yeah, that's a valid
serial number. And oh by the way, that same Dallas Zoo on that, we're just turned up a thousand miles
away. Uh, be a good indication that there's a problem course.

Speaker 3: No, say to youth case, to me, you centralize absolutely be around for years. Then if we
use that as a criteria to apply and not many cases can, you should be even moving onto the
decentralized ledger or blockchain to me, itchy to apply a set of criteria. What are the use cases it can
take blockchain. So the two ways a securities we, and this is the trust issue and then full easily reduce
administrative costs and speed and you really want to speak. So, uh, so realist is one thing. If you think
about, um, I think it'd be fun to say I read the news about homer was a Australian Bank. They just
completed a Google very first base metal and transaction. You can do that. What achieve that result?
The chief is the actual AP to close within a few minutes rather than in the transition away many, many
days a month.

Speaker 3: So to lead his fee is something, this technology can achieve benefit and we can, uh, we
are really aiming to reduce the real estate transaction down to three days, 21. And this is actually with
that blockchain actually was even possible. So they have so many use cases. What other use cases in
elevating Applebee's, the beating [inaudible] tragic meeting Paul Chek public ward, when you actually
have a role and then you can have many companies before this particular job and the using the
blockchain technology, they shorten the duration of this whole process. So, so these are the to me really
sold on the use cases and the regardless centralize all of these internet, you know, where the central
asking,

Speaker 1: I think it was like, I think you go to put it up, there were a bunch of things that are
business benefits to going to the decentralized database. And if you don't have those business benefits,
don't go there. Yeah. So that's what we're here to reduce the real estate time for

Speaker 4: 30 days, three days. It is the cost savings, fortunate to, to a user

Speaker 3: absolutely much layers. The party late can be eliminated. The self govern, uh, agents.
Uh, but the fact is all these transactions can be done. So the easy question and a really complex question
over here. Yes, I can get that project. Maybe just pass this one around. Trust issues in my plan. You
talked a lot about innovation and technology, talking about innovation and technology, it seems like
when I'm walking a lot of new volume, so to capture that value, I would expect businesses to change
their business models. Can we you project into the future about with different business models who
would have for this thing or uh, and you actors like Your Business? Is that a comment? Excellent.
Speaker 4: Yeah. Look, I'll start. Yeah, sure. Um, I eat in the tide world is the introduction of trust as
a private and trust as a service. So, you know, today we go out and we, we look at titles and we decide
based on the quality of the task and the price of the tiles and, and how good it was service they're going
to do in terms of providing us the tos and installing them. But do we today have the ability to also add
our data to that mix when engaging with the business? Are we basing our decision on whether or not
they're a to protect our data, whether we have control that data? More importantly, our business is
adding that into their business model. Uh, and today, maybe not. But in the future we absolutely believe
so. We believe that businesses will incorporate the question of data, data privacy, data management
into their business models, and it will be a de service proposition or businesses just as price, just as
quality of the actual product services today. So I absolutely believe that that is genuinely going to be the
case.

Speaker 3: Okay.

Speaker 1: I think an example of a use case that we've been looking at is, uh, again, get into this
accountable access to confidential information is picture a picture will, like right now the u s your
medical records are decentralized and that's not in a good way, right? I've got my cardiac cardiologist
has got some records on jumping practitioner has some record hospital emergency rooms that visited
the records. So I've got my records is scattered out in these various places and right now there's no
really good way for those to be shared. They get facts from one position to another physician. If I, if I still
permitted the imaginarium environment, why would he use the blockchain? Eda? Yeah. So I would have
not the records themselves on the block chain, the ability to be able to access the records to the
blockchain and I were going to have control over that.

Speaker 1: If you can get to that point, then you can think about a point where I have a smartwatch
and it notices that I'm having a medical emergency, I whatever, whatever it might happen. And so
maybe I've been in a car accident and it can be have that or we get to the unconscious energy shows on
up. He needs access to those records. I can't give them to them and I don't want to get a cart lunch, all
the empties to have access to my records and all the time it can be subset of the two. The combination
of an Iot device that I'm wearing and the blockchain and the presence of that particular EMT at my
location, my records can be automatically made available to them. That's the kind of change I think we
see in terms of, you know, technology can be

Speaker 2: okay

Speaker 1: at here in the back.

Speaker 4: Yeah. So the question is really around it. So we talked about like the transparency that
blockchain offers specifically. Then we said if you take away the key, no one can no longer access those
records. So where does that transparency and that control of information you kind of meet and
watching it? If you kind of speak to that a little bit more,

Speaker 2: take that one. Transparency and control.

Speaker 3: I actually take a day these two things. Columbia separate and um, the private key
obviously is a very big part of the ranching access to me. They were separate from the transparency part
of the rupture and feature. Um, but I do understand, um, pretty much every company or the entire
blockchain community is facing the challenge of uh, you know, each other key and I to the cover. And
we are actually coming up with some solutions to do the self recovery of the monarchy. And we see in
the early stage of, uh, sorry, uh, experimenting the idea and the whole three big could resolve a major
issue. And through our platform, they are multiple other offering on the market and the this module you
can edge and to store the um, the key, um, offside. And then you also have, you can actually distribute it
out, um, through uh, storage.

Speaker 3: So they are, um, put a lot of innovative solutions coming up to resolve that issue. But so
far have you stayed here because [inaudible] awesome. Worried what happens if I do come up with the
solution? People start using mark that home to a store. They find the key recover. But if something
happens and then I'll get a GP, a lot of legal liabilities when a company cannot afford to do that. Even we
have brilliant theater to solve that problem. So there's a lot of challenges when you can walk through,
but I do not believe that it really, uh, kind of impacts the true transparency benefit and Rakim because
that actually itself is the public ledger. Is the a multiparty involved? Did they all actually has the all poppy
really? Then this year I federal has copy certain song. Can they live like a doctor can, you know, can get
the data. And then this one is really you guarantee immutable and it's permanent.

Speaker 1: I think one of the big issues is going to be as around the privacy and confidentiality is he
around things like encryption, key management and so, uh, I think you know, the best thing is to not
give any kind of information at all. Just don't have to. So you know, people are starting to use these
things, doing knowledge proofs, blockchain. So I can assert some of these of information without
disclosing any details about that information. For an example for that. Amazing. When I order a drink at
this bar here, he's going to ask my driver's license and he's going to get my name, my driver's license
number, address, and a whole lot of other information. He has no need for Paul. He used to know it an
over 21 it's something that is doing that with a proof. I can prove that I over 21 without giving any other
piece of information.

Speaker 1: He's like anonymous prudential such that I don't give my any way. The beginning when
they started off with an anonymous credential, there's a minority, the center, they're going to be
leveraged to solve these problems. There aren't, as was mentioned, I need a good general purpose ones,
but they're starting to become available. Like he's, if you put the keys together in some particular place,
wherever that happens to being somebody's computer or somewhere like that, once that keys together
it's possible or a side channel attack, you ever recovered that ea. So things like multiparty computation,
which allows you to do a calculation across a number of different computers looked at each only have a
piece of that key is going to be able to then be able to encrypt and decrypt that pay without ever having
to do so. That kind of technology I think is is, is, is on the forefront and where we're heading.

Speaker 2: My 23 year old son wants to have his key and planted and by the way, I had this year,
this is one of the most wild things I've heard in a long time. Earlier this year I was in a development class,
uh, with a guy who worked for a place called dangerous things and dangerous things are do it yourself
implant. So there's like a Cyborg kit you can do for it for $250 that and then give you the scalpels. I'm not
kidding. I'm not kidding. You can have the RFID and your risk like $99. It's ridiculous. So it's, it's just
something fun to check out, but the sidebars by their tiny little bars. But uh, you know, we break it
down. We're going, oh, that's so crazy. It does get out. This is like, imagine 50 years from now. I bet you
ever w oh wow. They thought that was crazy. Here we are now. So, um, yeah, I was going to say, I'm
sorry. That's your next, and that might be the last one.

Speaker 5: I knew that the role of the skeptic citizen,

Speaker 2: like an audit trail of all the information

Speaker 4: that does a healthy skepticisms. Um, and we should all have a hell. These posters are
just about everything. Um, when you look at, ty did actually goes through to solving that problem
because, um, your data may be centralized but it is encrypted and you are the only one in control of
death decryption key. There are times I shouldn't say this in Australia. Um, does amazing things and I'll
take the opportunity to give a huge shout out to, um, to Australia house, to the team here, uh, to
Austrade to today, USA there they've done a phenomenal job, not just here but also for cross as a
business. Having said that, I've used Australia as passing some, some pretty amazingly difficult to
swallow cushion was. Um, and I think that's it. That's an issue that really needs to be looked at
worldwide because if that's the case, it doesn't matter what sort of technology that we put in place, um,
government could potentially have a backdoor to just about any system.

Speaker 4: That's, that's they are, and that's, that's scary. That's something that every single one of
us here needs to take up and consider internally and figure out how are going to voice your opinion. Uh,
but so long as that is the law in the jurisdiction that you're operating in, that it doesn't matter if I give
you the only key control your data. If there is a backdoor to that system, there's a legal way for the
government to look into your records, then that's a jurisdiction that you and I are living here. You know,
something only partially related that bicycle it is that encryption techniques today are largely not water
resistant. Okay. And the data

Speaker 1: that you put on a blockchain isn't potentially going to be there forever. Most
blockchains have no mechanism to be able to trim the blockchain or blockchain. So you start with
genesis block, you can go forward. Any, the data that's on there right now is likely to be broken in five,
10, 15 years with the traditional techniques and much less than time with quantum techniques. And so
that's something to think about when you start choosing the cushion. Algorithms are crucial in methods.
We're using encryption as a mechanism for privacy. Is that thinking about the fact that all encryption
techniques that I've ever been to gold, uh, at some point I'm going to be broken.

Speaker 2: So we have about two minutes and a, they can't take any more questions, but thank you
for the great questions.

SXSW 2019 Real World Applications of Blockchain

Real World Applications of Blockchain

SPEAKERS

CHAO CHENG-SHORLAND

ShelterZoom

ADD TO FAVORITES

ISSAC ELNEKAVE

Tide Foundation

ADD TO FAVORITES

KAREN KILROY
Kilroy Blockchain

ADD TO FAVORITES

TODD LITTLE

Oracle

Blockchain is the buzz on everyone's tongue. The Australian Securities Exchange is the first to replace its
recording system with distributed ledger tech & Australia’s Commonwealth Bank was chosen to deliver
the world’s first Blockchain bond. Startups are utilizing Blockchain for secure transactions, data storage
& supply chain transparency, while BaaS will help develop ideas at low cost. Join leaders from Australia
& USA at Australia House to discuss the transformative potential of Blockchain.

Todd

- Permission v. permitionless (not public v. private… bc different connotations)

- Oracle on Hyperledger fabric

- Extended Hyperledger Fabric – rich queries (normally. Companies will use as integration
platforms. SDK.

- Price per transaction.

- Saas – integrate our Saas application with blockchain so multiple orgs can use and have a single
source of truth.

- Consortium forming is very difficult for permissioned – legal/org/governance requirements that

are not tech + need to show value in that. NO mining ie built in benefits. Need to show business
value.

- Focused on B2B. All businesses involved must benefit.

- Need decentralized control not just decentralized technology.

- Supply chain, truck and trace (track the source of lattice to recall if needed), track heart patients
in healthcare, pharmaceutical to catch counterfeit, to track authenticity, certification for
universities and records; all verticals.

- How do you prove the app is on blockchain?

- The government is now focusing on crypto not blockchain; EU is focusing on blockchain bc of

GDPR… need to come up with ways to do that on blockchain to accommodate the right to be
forgotten.

- Legal regulations are coming.

- Have to have transparency, which is good for governments to adopt blockchain.

- Medical records are decentralized and not in a good way. Blockchain to mediate; access through
blockchain and control. IoT and blockchain and location and records available.
Isaac

- Personal data to landlord; when rent give a lot of data

- Removal of trust is the biggest benefit

- Open protocol; needed to make sure consumer can handle throughput of the data.

- Implemented a version of IOS to help massive scalable adoption globally.

- Protocol 4 years

- Public/private key mimicking in a decentralized protocol; helps toward mainstream adoption.

- Hard to be forgotten in a stack; all you have to do is throw away the keys to be forgotten.

- Trust as a product and trust as a service? Adds data into the mix? How we make that into
decision and business model? Data, data privacy, data management will be a future business
model

- Healthy skepticism

Karen

- Virtual negotiations room

- Transparency – see offer and context; eliminates confusion and trust

- Needed smart contracts. Platform agnostic is important.

- Were on Ethereum first; now give choice – private and public. Introduce coin to manage it.

- For people to adopt, people don’t need to know that there is blockchain tech. There just needs
to be a benefit.

- Educate people along the way.

- Blockchain will play a huge role in government. Deloitte released report that blockchain
revolution is spearheaded by governments in investments, debts, bonds, etc.

- Everledger is an Australian company that authenticates diamonds.

VMWare Commented [KM14]: Research

Deloitte Commented [OM15]: Writer: companies from here on

Consulting giant Deloitte has a solution for businesses called Rubix Core. Rubix Core’s
customized blockchain architecture is designed for building a private network customized to an
industry or organization. Rubix Core offers a full stack Ethereum-compliant enterprise
infrastructure as well as a set of GUI tools that make it easy to rapidly build smart contract apps.
could be discussed in less depth and grouped by subject
matter. These are mostly crypto-native companies and not
enterprises.

John Hancocock
Building OS tools – Ian
Ian OS Interview 3.4.2018 TRANSCRIPT
[00:00] Might actually be more interesting to you. You're going to is also block chain. So I'll tell you a
little bit about both. Um, and then we can dive deeper into having both of these things that I'm doing.
So I guess I'll start with the Daigo eventually. So I worked for John or I guess I'll back up a little bit. I
graduated from Brown last year with a degree in computer science, just putting the guns actually who I
am. Um, and I got into a blockchain during my senior year, so this was, um, probably like the winter of
2017, 2018 is when I got into this stuff. Um, and then throughout my senior year at Brown I was kind of
just working on blockchain stuff, some open source projects, um, contributing. And then I decided when
I graduated, that's kind of the world I wanted to be in.

[00:53] So I went to John Hancock, which is where I still work. Um, and we are working on insurance on
the blockchain. That's like what my group is doing. So we are a team of developers and business
strategists who are trying to figure out how can we make, watching work for this and just say an
insurance company, right? Like how can we approach blockchain in a way that makes sense for us as a
business and actually provide value to our customers. Um, so I'll get into that a little bit later cause you
might be interested in it. But what we're actually doing is building a set of tools on a theory them and
we're open sourcing all of it. Um, so they actually directly kind of related. So we, our team within a big
corporation as open sourcing software and unblocking. So I think I can get into that later.

[01:46] The stuff that I was talking about at the conference is kind of the other half of what I do. And
um, so, um, was working with a couple people, me and Brian, he was also up there with me. I've been
working very closely and we've been really interested in being at the area. So public blockchains. So I'm
like, you know, about like the JP Morgan and stuff and like the IBM blockchain, but we're really
interested in at Nerium mostly. Um, and what interests us is kind of cloth, cross network interaction.
Um, so there's, if you look at a dairyman and if you look at the web in general, right? There's all these
different platforms and networks that have yet, so in the current web, obviously there's things like
Facebook, you have read it, you have youtube, you have Instagram, you have Yelp, you know, all of the
mini communities or that maybe some of them are very large, but they're just different platforms,
right?

[02:42] For different types of content. Um, and then if you look in the blockchain world, it's the same
thing, just mirrored on the blockchain. So you have groups of finance application, so they call it like
[inaudible] decentralized finance. Um, so some specific projects there are like Dharma or at Wednesday
third DUI x, which is like derivatives on a blockchain and make it down, which is kind of like, how do we
represent that dollar on the block chain. So you have this suite of financial products, you have other
niches, which is where you probably heard a lot about at that conference. A gaming, um, and digital
goods is the one that we were kind of talking about at the conference. Um, so not just things like you
mentioned like some like centralized Warren's and park duration, um, access in the form of a token. So
you could have this NFP or like some representation of access, um, and just other types of digital guys,
whether it'd be like a game or something you aren't on the Internet.
[03:39] Um, we're like a degree or a badge on. And what is really interesting to me and Brian is the
ability to kind of connect all these different platforms. And the blockchain is actually really good for that
because we finally have a set of agreed upon standard. That's the same. We're going through something
like the network layer I think with, um, so what we were talking about in that talk, um, a part of it was
kind of capture some of that value. And that's the platform we're building. So we're building this thing,
it's like a quest lab born is like a name for it. But what it really enables you to do is you can bundle said,
so digital goods or just any kind of digital asset on theory and trade it for other assets independent of
the platform or the network that you know you're trading one.

[04:32] So a specific example, you could have people committing to get hub or like a decent size version
of, uh, there was like a badge in the form of a token and then you can trade that for different type of
access rights to like a concert in the form of an NFL team. I take it right. So the high level picture is there
is that now we can use the set of standards to enable is kind of crop platform interaction. And I guess
what's relevant to you is the fact that need standards is the technology that makes all this possible is all
open source. So, um, we're using a theory, we're using, you know, web three javascript libraries, right?
Um, and it's super useful for us as developers because everyone is agreeing upon these standards and
you know, the communities working to make the whole thing better. And you know, it just helps us a lot
and doing this and it's something that we could easily do in the current version of the web. Right. Cause
there's no set of standards for like digital goods specific grade science where you're talking about at that
conference. But um, I can dive more into that stuff or the stuff that John Hancock you've done, kind of
like the approach that we were coming from or like the angle that we were coming from.

[05:50] Oh, okay. Very interesting. Thank you for that. It's very helpful. So, so the idea is that if I say
contribute to open, I get a form of digital goods, say a badge and then it has value and so that I can
exchange it for, well, whatever it, right. It could be tickets or it could be money, right? That couldn't be
whatever form of money like ether or bitcoin or something. A stable coin. Okay. So it's effectively, so
when you contribute to open source, you know, collecting various, you know, cookies, right? Like
various rewards. Um, and um, and so your contribution actually effectively, you are effectively paid.

[06:38] Exactly. Yeah. And that's what's really cool. And I always convert these things to how they just
maybe because I'm a believer that a lot of the systems today are actually really good and we don't need
a watch and all of them. So like, think about it. Now in today's world, I'm a developer, right? So for my
perspective, if I contribute to an open source project, um, I've, you still get some benefits, right? Um, so
am I going to contribute to Facebook's react? Um, you can go look up my get hub profile and you can
see the commitment I made and that has some sort of value, right? So I can go to a job and be like, look
at all the commits I made. Um, you can kind of signals my ability as a developer. Um, it also gets me, you
know, I, there's a network effect between me and the communities I'm interacting with open source,
right? So by like say on like a particular open source watcher and project and I'm a developer right now,
I can contribute to that project. They can start to see me as a valuable member of their kind of
decentralized team, which does have value to me because if I wanted to go work full time for them, you
know, they can see the activity. I'm not so in the current set up, um, from a developer's perspective, you
could feel like some type of value from distributors.
[07:59] Reputation.

[08:02] Exactly. Yeah. It's reputation. It's kind of like social capital, right? And that's what the name of
our dog, the interesting thing is once you start using blockchain to, you know, explicitly attached the
awards through your activity, then it becomes more interesting because now you can trade them and
use them in different ways. So before I just gained some type of reputation and social capital that's kind
of like ambiguous and floating in the abyss. But with blockchain I literally have a digital good that is a
representation of the actions that I did. Um, so it kind of like, we're formalizing that idea of social capital
into an actual like digital asset, which I can use maybe to apply for jobs, but you're also, like you said, uh,
exchange it for money. Maybe there's a grant program, it's going to exchange, you know, I'm not a
dollars for developers. You contribute to this, um, which is probably for the JD, right? Um, or you can
think of like other things. So like I could get like a decentralized degree if I earn enough of these badges
are cookies, whatever you want to call them. So I think the assumption here is that there's more uses for
these goods. Um, why don't we tie a blockchain to it? And it's different than just getting this kind of
social capitol or reputation then we had today.

[09:19] Got It. And so, so tell me, so the platform we are building allows you to it, it's great. It's like the
standards for exchanging or what, what does it do?

[09:29] Yup. Yeah. So it does two important things. Um, the first is probably what you just said. It's just,
it's just the tech that allows you to sync. So we have a web app that lets you go do this, but in the
backend we have instead of smart contracts that let you actually do this. Well No, I've done one thing.
It's very straight forward. Like we built the code that makes you swell. Uh, the second part, which
actually made it more interesting because I don't want to build the swamp. Like that's nothing new. It's
just your shame. The second thing I think that's actually interesting though is making it very easy to
create the kind of rewards or request. So we're building an interface and the backend, the best way that
lets companies or influence he's going create don't reward. So to make this more specific saying I'm a,
I'm a big online Gamer, I play video games and I have like a following.

[10:21] I can go in to our black form and easily create like a digital reward and I can give it to be my fans
who watch my stream the most. Maybe follow me on Twitter and follow me on Instagram. So I we're
allowing creators to going through our port on, we create this, you know, this digital, we're born. And
then the other thing, other than just creating like a symbol, an FTE, that's a reward. We're also like a
step two in our plane is actually creating the tech that maps actions to the reward. So when you think
about, I keep saying the phrase like when you contribute to get hot, you get a badge, but there has to be
some code, some underlying service that actually maps like I did this, I'm getting up, I get this reward. So
we're building that connection so that we called out like approved, right?

[11:11] Open proof. Um, I think there's actually, I'll send you a, I'll send you a landing page to that after
this. There's a, there's like a landing page for that. Um, that's explained that more. But what that does is
if now attaching digital good to the behaviors or the actions that you're taking on that work, um, and
someone needs to build that actual code to do that. Um, and the value here is that, you know, it works
for get, but we can approach other platforms and they can easily adopt our approved standard and
these things become really useful. So I can say like, um, one thing that I mentioned during my talk was
zero acts as like this big block chain platform out up here and then that does like exchanges. Um, and if
you went and voted on their proposal last week or two weeks ago for like a new feature, you were
getting at t as a reward basically where we're building the tech that would allow other platforms to
quickly like do the same thing, right? Just with a, with a copy paste snippets of code, you can do the
same thing.

[12:15] Okay. So and, and so, so in your vision and they understand. So if I'm all done, I want to kind of
take it back to open source if I'm old. Um, yeah. And so then the say there is like a grant to create open
source something and I contribute to part of it and I get a cookie you guys can kind of associated with
his action was make completing and I am a exchange that cookie for money.

[12:47] Right. I agree. Yeah. That's the way to think of it. The interesting part is that you can buy action
into intro reward zone. Like right now you've been easily kind of track who is permeating through a bit
of writing. Again, I was great at that, but it's hard to also track who is voting on your opensource
proposals. So that's another thing with open sores and specially in blockchain, um, people need to vote
on new decisions. It's not, a lot of these things are watching specifically when we're making an update to
open source code. We don't have a CEO that can just say make the change or do not make the change.
We have a decentralized group of people that you can vote on what change we want to make. So what
have, we could easily track who did the voting and also who is committed to our project and most, and
we can start to combine these different behaviors.

[13:43] And that's where it gets interesting. Cause like now I can track, all right, this person is
contributing to my code, are also voting on my proposals and they're also active within the thread
online. So we know that's like a really good a user and we want to reward them so you can kind of
bundle all these different things and reward people I think more generally for what, like how they're
engaging on mine. Um, and I think what's interesting here is that hopefully we can increase incentives
for people to contribute to open source project other than just the kind of reputation verse that you get
now. Or like the, you know, say going of like good talent. Like maybe we can more easily attach financial
incentives for people to go and fix it. Um, and I, I hope that that would be good. Yeah.

[14:34] So what I was concerned is that one of the things, you know, but not now the open source
legalist speaking, it's times with, you know, there's like two sides of it. There's a Lego side which causes a
lot of restrictions, you know, attribution rights and whether or not like copy left rights, all of those
rights. Um, and then there is a perception on the developer side that it's whole free. Um, the legal
reality is actually very complex and you know, cause you guys are thinking about it. Um, there is uh, you
know, there, there is a really good way, you know, cause cause if you look at open source code at the
end they will tell you it's like a patchy code or Berkeley or whatever. Um, and we will and whatever
version and then it will kind of tell you what, what are the rules of the game when you copy and paste
it.
[15:26] So like you have to attribute it to Oh God, you have to, you know, this, this and that. All of that
could be automated. Right? So all of that, instead of having like me writing a bunch of legalese telling
you what you can do with the code, that that could be automated through smart contracts were actually
like how is that code can be used. One of the things that could change and that is you guys thinking
about it, open source doesn't have to be free entirely. Right? And that may be like that's what open
source, open source. The definitely I know that in the developer community would develop developer in
like when I, you know, I, I, I, I advise many engineers, you know, and there are some, and there the
delivery assumption, opensource equal sign free. It doesn't, that doesn't have to happen. Something
could be open source, meaning anyone can use it provided they pay it all right?

[16:24] They could pay, you know, a license, automatic license. So again, that could be in addition to
rights of, of, of our tradition being at American, all of that. Uh, they, the payment could also be
automatic depending, I don't know, on the size of the organization they use the number of licenses
there were. Right. So there is a way to, you know, so there is a way to, if you've kind of stepped back at
the like, and that's one of, I think what I hear you struggle when you say hey there'll be a grant. Well
there's not that many entities has give generous grants. Really the best way to raise money is to have
people pay for the value they're receiving. Right. Somebody created value and the question is who's
going to capture it? Right. That's really, there's a difference between value creation and monetizing. Like
we all like United maybe creating value.

[17:18] The question is who will be if anybody monetizing. And so the question was open source. It's
separate question of who creates value, which is probably developers but who is, who is capturing that
value that is less clear. And so there is a way to design the open source project I think was a bunch of
smart contracts where it will also like for the use of it like okay you like my code, you know, pay, you
know 20 bucks. Oh whatever. Like I don't like that is that is a good deal. You don't have to invest in
developers that and saves you a lot of time. Most people would be, I mean the reason people use it for
free because it doesn't cost anything, but like people between like paying zero and like employing your
own developer team, there's like a lot of gray. You lucky like Oh, people will probably also pay a hundred
or a thousand.

[18:13] Right. And so that, it doesn't have to be like, I guess [inaudible] pointing out to you because like
open source, it doesn't have to be entirely free. It could, it could be the creation. I will pull, it could, it
could actually build in smarter Tantra that forces people to pay for or bid or whatever to pay for the
volume. And it's still cheaper than me employing a bunch of developers, you know, so, so, so, so, so, so,
so, so the, so to me it sounds like if you can attach to my contribution, the rules, which is kind of the
license, the traditional legal rules of the license. And then if you can also attach to the as or beating or
payment or whatever mechanism, and then you can kind of create a bank that that pulls resources to
pay. And this is why I feel that the blockchain technology can really change the nature of open source.

[19:12] We can get away from this notion that it's a free for all, right? Because the conversation I have
with with developers now, when does it all go? It's free. I say, well it is free in a sense that money don't
exchange, but it's not free because it comes with strings attached. So it's one of those things, it's, it's
kind of like, you know, if you ever observed academics, you know, like because there's not been a lot of
cash going on, they argued by publications, effectively, publications become a currency, right? So like
with open source, it's kind of like that money doesn't exchange, but then there's this suicide things like
copy laughed and attributions. That's basically the currency. So, and I know and I'm like, Hey, I would be
happy to pay $1,000 if I don't have to give an attribute for example. Or I would say, so basically there is a
way to kind of take all the strings that touch including money. And I say, if I'm contributing, I have to,
you know, or I set up this project, I will say everybody who contributes, we'll agree that we will make it
available to everyone. Uh, this Ray Rizzo strings or touch. And if you agree to that term contribute and
you gonna get a fraction of the pool calculated this way. Right. And so, and so I think so, go ahead.

[20:33] Go ahead. Yeah, that is kind of the perspective that we need to approach these kind of new
normal's. Good. Really interesting. Right. So you know, back to what I was starting, let's say you could on
the blockchain tracks, the actions that I'm taking is specifically for, you know, contribution. It directly
relates to this because like you said, you have a pool that is, you know, accumulating people are paying
user software. That pool of money needs to be allocated somehow with smart contracts, all automated,
we can now allocate the money to the developers who have contributed the most and the way we
tracked their contributions. And just for something like I described, right? So some service that mass my
contribution and like some did you know, whether it's a good or some other type of representation, um,
that's when you have those, the intersection of those things. Um, I be get Kendra's from honestly,
because now as a developer, I could actually earn, fortunately based on my contribution, it's not just like
a social capital that I'm gaining, but it's actually money.

[21:38] It's kind of like if you, if this closes, we have an intranet now is those pool. So it's actually, I
mean, this whole copyright law, um, it, it is, the closest we have is, is, um, you all those places where
you can buy images for five bucks. Like I'm happy to pay for a frog image that is like not circulated
everywhere, but only in some places. And I have a license with certain things. Um, and, and, and, and
uh, photographers get royalties basically effective with, uh, so it could be like, it's could be a passive
income basically that and that makes developers not just, Oh, I created code. They also made, makes I'm
evangelists right now. I actually was my labor contributed build this, now I want people to use it. That's
how much I believe in this. And so that could, that could be kind of like with photography, it creates a
stream, a passive stream of income.

[22:32] And so they become a stakeholder in this project, which is basically like unincorporated project
that is decentralized and they're contributing to you. And Dave was the contribution. They get a bigger
allocation and they also can get the part, but they also get apart over time. And so they are also some
level become evangelists to it as well. And so that's kind of, I think that's, to me the promise of
blockchain is that people can more directly benefit. The most valuable commodity we have is time. And
if I think she bit my sweat, sweat of the brow, right, my, my labor or whatever my labor is, whether it's
writing a contract, you know, growing strawberries, creating code and I can somehow dot contribution
could be monetized proportional to my contribution. Plus if, if it, that project increases in volume, right?
Because that piece of code has a lot of impact and has a lot of uses.
[23:30] I can only, I can not only just be an author and like get a card, but I can kind of get a stream of
income in the same way as you get a stream of income from a piece of photography because it has
some, a bundle of rights. And every time I, it I give you, I don't tell you a picture, so you're right to use
that picture. And every time I do, I get 10 cents or whatever. So, so, so and so and so to me like if he can
rethink open source, right. And this is where like, and this is, I think we're kind of on the same page. I
just come at it from a different, if you come at it from a different perspective of hey, it has to be free, it
doesn't have to be free. Um, and that, and then you can set up the, the, the whomever started the
projects can kind of determine the rules of the game, right?

[24:20] You know, what, what does this thing like what, what does it parameters and exchange then you
will and kind of, and, and I was like, this people will have to strike a balance between hey, availability to
others and, and paying for the contributions and you know, they will be over time competing with other
projects. Right. Because I had somebody, like if I'm a developer can determine kind of an opportunity to
cause of helping this project versus that project and that will be a function. Do I believe in this project? I
think it's going to be successful. How much time it will take. Right? Then you and I may come out
differently. Um, and so and so like to me that could solve the problem was open source. It no longer
becomes a communal property that we all kind of abuse. But, but I become as true. It's actually a little
bit like, you know how like, like we have corporations and nonprofits, but then there's like things like co
ops, like it effectively becomes like a co op and tt where are you part owner? And so you're not just
working for quote unquote a paycheck. You working because they're trying to increase the volume of
the whole thing, get a bigger cup.

[25:34] Yeah. I think that's part of the reason why it was that kind of general idea. Right? So now the
people who contributed to our network are actually directly benefiting women cause we're valuable. I
think when it was slightly broken, um, maybe like a year or two years ago, people started to like fog
realize idea was that was like the accompanying appreciation model for these open source kind of thing.
So like you can imagine once Sam developer contributing to an open source project now, um, and it's on
blockchain and easy way for me before to gain some financial value of this with buying a bunch of the
tokens that maybe that platform years and hoping that my contributions would make the token price
rise. Right? But what you end up with is a bunch of token holders that are just speculating on price and
they're not actually taking a lot of actors to make the platform better.

[26:32] So I think the key is being able to, to track the actions and the contributions more explicitly that
people weren't taking. And that's kind of what I've talked about with these proofs of action. Right. And I
think that's the useful part because now we're not developing where we're not rewarding all token
holders the same, right? You're now we're actually rewarding people based on their literal contributions
to the platform, which I think is a much healthier relationship because now, because you could look into
token holders for any of these like decentralized or open source blockchain projects. And a majority of
them are just priced speculators. They don't, they're not true of Angeles for the platform because
they're not putting in any input. He kept buying a token. Right. Okay. But you could map, you know,
developers are artists, designers, business people's contributions more explicitly to, you know, and
network and its features and you know, the APP or anything.

[27:29] Um, I think it would be much more healthier because now I'm a, I'm a developer. I'm pretty sure
that 20% of the pull requests on this open source wallet, um, I'm going to get 20% of this pool. Um, you
know, like you said, if it, if you can charge a fee for that for the code, um, I think that's awesome. I think
it's a really good way to, you know, make that passive income and it disincentivizes me more. Right? I
was a developer specifically if I'm through smart contracts and it's all automated guarantee a portion of
this value pool, that's super cool. So I think the key in some cases is being able to track those actions.
And that's what's interesting to me is now you're not just a token holder, but you're a verified
contributor.

[28:14] Right? Right. Yeah. And I think you guys raised the question whether or not you, the verified that
frame, it shouldn't be able to sell it to light aspect of it, which I agree. Right?

[28:25] Yep. And that's, that's an interesting question. Um, that we were getting into a lot, actually
grabbed the down with people. Um, I think on a very technical level, like that's the way you're talking
about on stage notions about like talking about the actual code, like in your, your digital good. Yeah. You
should probably be able to transfer it because maybe you want to sell it, she likes, maybe it's a grant
program but it doesn't look like a real grant program, but maybe you're just exchanging it with like this
pool of money. But I think I thoughts off to the level things get weird when you allow people to
purchase, um, you know, representation of your action. So at that point we need a lot of checks and
balances to make sure that, um, these digital goods are verified and that we're doing it in the right way.

[29:13] Because you can imagine this, you know, I feel like I deal with a situation where everyone gets,
you know, digital badges based on, you know, the activity they're doing. But the dark side of that is
verifying that the bad news, you're older actually yours and representative of the action you've actually
taken because, um, you don't want to allow it to get broken so that people can just purchase
contributions and stuff because then the economics of the whole system get really messed and weird.
So that's it. That's a key part that we'll need better checks on. You know, if we're going to represent, you
know, activity with digital goods, we need to verify that, you know, you're the true owner and the true
contributor, which I think is

[29:57] person or subsequent person.

[29:59] I think game as a person, we need to be able to track who was the real person who did this
action that earned, that's who, who, and I got high level. We put in the work and you, and we need to be
able to verify that they put in the work. Um, and it was going to take teams of people thinking about
that problem. The good thing about the blockchain is that data is, you know, verifiable and you can
check history, which is why I think a blockchain is actually useful here because it always comes back to
me. I think a lot of these projects we come up with these ideas, but then you realize that someone can
just build this with a database and like a specific service and you don't need a blockchain. Why? The
awesome part about blockchain in this context is not, we definitely need a way to bear by history and,
and check, you know, what actions you took in the blockchain is great for that. So I think that kind of
further promote this concept that blockchain is now enabling this and it's enabling something that we
couldn't do before. Um, which is key because that's what's interesting to me. It's not what is the
equivalent of business acts on the Washington, but it's what type of behavior can the blockchain
enabled that we just can't do today?

[31:11] Right, right. No, that's exactly, yeah. That's kind of when my mind was where I saw at the wall,
you have it too to open sources that, you know, um, my, my attention ambition is kind of etched into
the fabric of what I created. Uh, and uh, and then the volume of any currency is that it, it's, it could be
used anywhere. So if you allow that exchange outside of it, right? Like, you know, that's, that's kind of a
dollar is valuable because you don't know a main reasons, but also because, you know, I can use it in
Mexico and then, and, and at Arec I can exchange or then a Europe. So, Yup. So like if I, if I contributed
and then I earned that cookie, but I need some cash, I can sell it to you. And, and, and you know, it
because I, while value short term return more than longterm, I needed cash today.

[32:17] Um, it could be that you will actually benefit from appreciation, right? But, but, but at all, but,
and I got paid and maybe not as much as you did because you were more patient, but patients in the
most economic structures is rewarded. So, so yeah. So there'll be some weird dynamics work creator
who sells quickly. It may not benefit as much as you know, investor, but that's just, that's just life. But,
but I think that's just, that is not all that different from our current system because you can't force
people to hold what they don't want to be holding. But I think what you're saying is being able to very
fine track my contribution and I, this could be sold in this specific thing to many people over and being
able to hold on my battery's dying. Let me hook up my computer and being, cause I, I just, uh, was, I'm
going to get under my table so I can hook it up. No second.

[33:24] Okay.

[33:26] Yeah. Okay. That's really cool. Uh, so are you guys doing it like, uh, the, does your, does your
employer know you guys are working on that?

[33:35] No. Um, yeah, I mean I don't think it's fine cause it's the Brian, we're now, he worked for doctor
labs, right. To get their age. I worked for John Hancock. I'm an anything, it's totally unrelated so I can say
it's fine. They know I'm doing some blocks and work. Um, I guess it's valuable or it's probably interesting
to you what we're doing at John Hancock as well. It,

[33:57] I mean it's, I mean I'm, I'm just gonna say I'm gonna put my legal hat just for a second because
you're an employee and I, I've handled employers like that. So just be careful. Like, I mean, yes, I, I,
you're in New York. What state are you in?

[34:09] I'm in Boston actually.

[34:10] Are you in Boston? So like, you know, just, you know, like I can tell you in California, law is a very,
very liberal, you guys may or may not be as liberal or as we are if it's sort of landed related, you're cool.
Provided that in California, and it may be different than in Massachusetts, last two or three or liberal
too. But I, I don't know on this point provided that you don't use your computer.

[34:30] Yup.

[34:34] To me that sounds like a cool, I'm not your employer. I don't care that you have a mistress on
the side at all. Good. Um, well we can kind of figure out how we represented in the book and how I
attributed to you and all of that, that that is, I'll work with you on that. But I'm just saying like whatever
you do don't do the rookie mistake of doing around. They're using their tools because that is like a
common test for ownership of, of whether or not it was a product of your employer or yours that lives in
California. And usually it's basically tools and you know, the law was written before computers. So the
only tool you have is a computer practically speaking. So, uh, so make sure you don't communicate with
Ryan through your computer. Don't make sure you don't write the code on your company, your work
computer. Right. So that's, that's usually, there may be more new answers to it and in Massachusetts,
but that's basically provided. I mean I can tell you though, even in the very liberal or California and it if
it's right, if it's provided that there is no subject matter overlap.

[35:37] I think that's the key

[35:38] thing. A drubbing careful to separate. Yeah. Like you said like Oh code in three occasions
between two computers. Um, I think it's especially because it's both within blockchain there's a weird
gray area as far as like use case. Um, yeah. What I mean if if your employer really wants to do after you
they can say, hey, blockchain project, blockchain project. What's the difference? Right. It's a really like a
level of obstruction question on some level it's kind of ridiculous. It's, it's sort of like saying everything in
blockchain. It's like everything on the Internet is the same, which is when that was not true that there's
a difference between online dating company online and Sas Online. Like, like those. I was like, but that's
because the conversation about Internet has evolved to the point that it's so segmentize now that like I
would say even it was in SAS it's like there is like marketing tools and sales too and storage tool.

[36:35] There's like a lot of sudden cyber sub sub segmentations. So like if I were, I was, when I was a
general costs all the way I had, I had a number of engineers who would actually either time to me and
say can I do this? Or like do it in secret, right. The way we would say, hey are you in the same industry as
us? It's actually the ton of local. I've got a very narrow industry but because in this industry is in the
beginning people sort of say blockchain maybe cryptocurrency, but basically, yeah, so the, the, the, the
ad, it kind of depends on the relationship you have was your employer. Yeah. If you have like a really
good relationship and your employer like a supportive and all of that, the, the, the, the actually the, the
safest thing to do is to like say, hey, full disclosure, I'm working on this.

[37:24] Yeah.

[37:25] And I want your permission and acknowledgement that is mine. I do it on my time and the
another come and I can tell you that there are the engineers who we valued a lot who would come to
me and say, Oh God, Oh, I'm working on this online dating company as I'm working out for the SAS
company. Um, and just, just letting you know, and you tell me if you're going to have leaves on a clay
and tried to claim ownership because if you are, I'm going to lose my job. Right. And so like, and then
let's do it. Like I would talk to and depending on how much we value in the employee, like if we do say,
sure, fine, whatever, it's not in the same, here's my email telling you that it's okay. And if we sort of feel
like it's the same or would the water and get rid of the employee will say no. So it depends on how it will
grow. So that's probably the easiest thing to do. Well not the, it's probably the most safest thing to do,
but else outside of that to figure out what the Massachusetts law is. Uh,

[38:21] it's relatively liberal, but yeah, I think, you know, I'm lucky because I have a really good
relationship with my employer and my boss kind of promote this type of behavior. But you're right. I
think getting the, you know, um, permission to work on something like some type of like concrete ways
probably pretty useful.

[38:41] Yeah. I mean it's, that's not an issue until you're successful.

[38:46] Exactly. Right. Yeah. It doesn't mean anything. Whether it works, right.

[38:50] It's like a, the water to everybody wants it and then he gets shit ton of money and people want
part of it. Right. Unless you get there, it says never going to be an issue, but like, look, you don't like, but
so that's why that's one of those things to figure out in your state what the lawyers and how good are
your relationship is and how much are you willing to walk. Right. If you have to like those are the,
because like this was kind of like, it's only an issue and then the very, very rare case where it's worth a
shit ton of money.

[39:18] Right. Exactly.

[39:20] So what if, but if you are in that 1% that it's like, that's not a conversation like you want to have
was it was your former employer. It's saying that you were doing it on my dime and it's the coolest sw
using my copy machine, making personnel copies. Right. So just, just, just, you know, thinking about it
maybe even when I'm talking to a counselor or something because like that, definitely like, you know, I
mean, and you have time because the blockchain is in its infancy. Chances are by the time your dad was
your project, you'll have many more employers in the middle. Yes,

[39:52] exactly. Yep.

[39:54] But I mean the best, the best time to disclose this is really as you like about to join a project. And
then you were saying, hey, you know, I like to contribute to all kinds of projects. Full disclosure, what I
do does not, is not in your industry, but I'm, I mean full disclosure and I'm putting it like in the email so
you know, or like in the disclosure form, so later you don't come back to me and say, look, so it's a
perfect time. You just, before you actually joined the company, uh, and you know, sometimes, but I can
tell you because I wasn't illegal executive was whom people have this conversation, you know, like
people would come to me, engineers would come to me and say, I'm building something. And like, like
our are, we record would have been telling me that will be my job after this job.

[40:35] Right. Cool.

[40:40] Okay. Well that's interesting. So tell me about what do you, what do you, what are you building
for the insurance and how that related to open source?

[40:48] Yeah. So, um, I just for the context of like my team and what our goal was [inaudible] right. Like
every big corporation has their innovation team. Um, in my team specifically is working on blockchain.
So about a year ago we before has joined, one of my friends was the only black engineer, but they were
still just trying to figure out what is the value of blockchain and how can we incorporate it into our
existing business. Um, and at first they could consider it is I am I become useless. Things like accepting
bitcoin as a payment method or something like that. Like not the real value of blockchain as my team
forms were kind of like the blockchain, I say optimist. So we're big on like the, you know, crowd source
interaction, peer, peer, public, like that side of the watching world. Um, so we were like, how can we fail
a totally new experience on the blockchain that still is useful for John Hancock.

[41:54] So, um, we, we spoke with a lot of people and we do a lot of like r and D and we figured out that
there's probably ways that you can barrel insurance aggregates or risk pools on the blockchain, um, that
provide better rates and more diverse products, any insurance. So we're like, I remember he was
assumption that, um, if people pool their resources of knowledge and capital on the blockchain, we
could probably make some new types of insurance products that are pretty useful. Uh, so after we kind
of figured that out, we were like, so where do we start as this game within John Hancock? And what we
decided would be most useful and most effective would actually be building a standard for insurance on
the blockchain. So the same way that Erc 20 FTEs are standards on a theory on, you know, instead of
rules that the developer is abide by, um, we're developing a standard for insurance products on the
blockchain.

[42:57] Does other great theory. Um, so it's like a set of rules are and code to say what makes up
insurance, um, what are like the core pieces that you need? And allowing people to go and years these
tools that we're providing to build their own insurance products. So at a very high level, we're just
building a tool kit so that other developers to use our software to build more specific insurance Bronx
there. Um, and as we were building it, we decided that this needs to be open sourced because that's just
what I'm right now when a lot of developers in this space like to work with, that was our original like don
problems. Like people like in block and they're like open source, we're going to open source this. They're
a corporation was actually really willing to help us do that. So we've been working with that set of like
legal counsel, internal and external to help us do that. Um, and just teams around the company and they
gave us the go ahead. Um, so, you know, build this software and release it open source. Um, which is
cool cause it's like the first open source piece of software that John Hancock and um,
[44:05] is it publicly available? Alrighty.

[44:08] No. So we're, we're launching, um, don't quote me on this one, but it's sometime late next
month, but very soon. Oh, okay. Yeah. Um, so we're literally, we're going right now, but we're, we're
almost done with it and we're right now we're just kind of working on like a launch approach, like the
marketing, all that stuff.

[44:27] Um, and so the hope is that developers incorporated into their,

[44:32] yeah, exactly. The, the, the goal is to have developed greater release. I get up and say this is a set
of tools or the goal is to work with developers or just have developers on their own, build these new
types of insurance products.

[44:47] What would John, what John have a back it up. Risk is up to appetite. Yeah.

[44:55] Yeah. So that's um, an important part of this. So, um, basically in order to make these kind of
products work on a theory and you need a bunch of different parts, um, cause they're going to
insurance one of them actuarial work. So you need really smart actuaries to create models, you know,
tomato insurance, right? Like that's an important thing. So you need smart actuaries and they
experience to contribute their expertise in the form of like a function that he was card and your need.
The biggest thing that's the hardest to figure out is you need a bunch of capital. You need money to
make policy Solomon and be able to, you know, obviously town people when they make claims on an
event. Um, so John Hancock, the goal is to work with them to get them to support us and kind of both of
those ways.

[45:45] So, um, we'll probably release a product of our own. So like hypothetically you can imagine John
Hancock is going to do micro moment insurance for like transfers like large transfers on it. Here, I'm like
exchanging video exchanges. So like if there's an error in the code and you're saying you've messed up
and you lose money, you're back by, there's a completely hypothetical example, but think about it. Um,
we, we would probably offer that specific product and actually use John Hancock resources to make it
work. Um, so backing up a little bit, the goal is we build this set of tools. We'll probably build some of
our own project using the tools and we're hoping other people build their own stuff. And it's very like,
it's very symmetrical with the react, right? Facebook don't react. They use it in their, in their own apps.
Um, other people use it for their own stuff and reactors becomes better as a result.

[46:39] So I mean that's, I mean that's where a lot of open source product derived that come out of big
corporations. They want the technology to be good as it can. We're hoping that by open source of yet
aren't, our tool set becomes really good and it also helps us release these new types of products and the
blockchain. So that's Kinda like what we're envisioning for the company has actually been a pretty cool
about it. They're on board. It's saving a lot of education that kind of explained to them what the value
prop of blockchain it cause it, you know how it is kind of weird, um, before you get into it, like especially
weird because we don't want to cannibalize our own business. I got the same time, right? We don't
want to offer products that are cheaper than our existing products, but also open source and no fees
that go to. So like we don't want it to feel business from our own product. So we had to be careful to,
uh, to create the right types of things you said. So then I actually adds value to talking Hancock.

[47:38] Yeah. Well, and there's a difference between short term while you and the long term while you
right there, there's a good argument that the whole spaces is there. So that in the short term you may
not be, his may not be helping because you have a centralized business, but if the whole world is
moving, so that's a different conversation.

[47:56] Yeah. But that's like we mentioned that along with the exact, to that specific argument.

[47:59] Did you just, did you, did you, did you look at, are you familiar with Quan stamp? Where I'm a
strategist.

[48:07] Oh, I've heard of quantum Sam. I don't know why

[48:12] specific. And so that's, this is where it may be interesting. Maybe you may have an interest for
me to introduce you to our founders. And the reason I say that, and then, you know, I mean, I, I totally
get that. You mean, you know, young cog in a big corporation and there was like a business person was
whom I was homemade may, I would, may have to talk to the reason I say that. So we, you know, we're
a security company. We, we build a protocol that secure smart contracts that would basically review, we
have a bunch of analyzers that are part of our protocol that basically give you a report of all the
vulnerabilities that, and that is kind of our white paper or white paper or also talks about assurance, uh,
which is kind of a form of insurance. Um, and so the idea if he, I'm sure he can now kind of connect the
dots.

[49:03] It when it was all my telling you is, uh, you know, we have nodes and people stake on, um, on
how secure your smart contracts is and then, and that's backed up by money. Yup. Right? Yep. And so
that's where the insurance comes in. And so, um, and we are very actively building that assurance
protocol. So I might, I think my guys would be very interested to talk to you, to you about the open
source. We, you guys are building as you say, you may be looking for a project to test drive this. We may
be, we may be a perfect test drive. I'm sorry.

[49:46] Definitely for actually those types of products that we originally envisioned would be highly
product because doing something that's crypto native is so much easier because you don't need as
complex or goals. Right. So, um, I think it's definitely, I was wanting to learn more. I'll read into it anyway
how it works and I think

[50:08] we don't have a lot of pub what you look, look about a website there is a little bit or you can
find, I mean honestly what you, what needs to be happening is you talked to Richard or Steven Bowls,
which are our cofounders. I can tell you, but I drive strategy or for quantum stuff I work with, like I work
with product marketing league, I work with everybody. Uh, and uh, and I can tell you we are very
actively building our assurance protocol. But how I'm really like release the whole lot. We have been
thinking, we have realized that, you know, insurance, like I'm like John Hancock insurance is not our
strong suit. It's, it's a complicated business. So I can tell you that I've been thinking about how to wrap
my mind both legal and business and technically around this issue. So while I don't fully appreciate, I
mean I can understand what you're building, but I don't fully appreciate it for many reasons, including
because I'm not technical enough.

[51:03] I do think, you know, um, each, I think what may make sense for you to have an informal
conversation was Richard and Steven and, and see like if they like once the two, cause the day
engineer's you're an engineer, you guys can meet him, decide whether or not this is in the round of
possible pilot as useful to each other. Right? And so if the answer to that is yes, then we can think
through how to escalate it in hot, like right. How we can make it actually make it legally palatable for
people in your organization to work with us. Right. So, yeah,

[51:42] that'd be great. And they're there on, actually they're really progressive and allowing us to do
that. So like we've, we're working with algorithm like another big dog chain, um, and talked to him like
putting our software into their corporate girl so John had gone off and go do it. So, um, yeah, they're,
they're open to us. You know, you working with as many groups as we can if it adds value. So yeah,
that'd be, that'd be cool to learn more.

[52:08] Yeah. Let me give you, let me give you, I made sure to Steven and Richard and you guys get on
an informal call and maybe I'll join it. That's sort of like as, as a fly on the wall, just so that I can kind of
see the progression of this. This is the way totally independent of the book. I did. I totally did. I totally
did not anticipate that this is where this conversation's going to go. Uh, so, uh, cause I want to kind of
like I'm mixing business and personal and fun and all of it, but, but, but what you guys are building this
super interesting and definitely I can tell you that that kind of cuts into the issues that I've been
considering as we've been building our product. And I do think that I know sometimes like people
started as a business conversation and then get into technical.

[52:53] I actually think because what looked up the technology is so complicated. I actually think it
makes sense to start with on the technical side and see like if we're like in the realm of the same type of
thing and then we can kind of soul like what, when you're on the dozer side, let me introduce you to one
or both of them. They are also traveling. Um, so that, and I know you have to run

Speaker 1: 00:03 Everyone.

Speaker 2: 00:03 Uh, I'm Brian, I write for the nifty news. Uh, this is the end
Speaker 3: 00:10 guys. So my name's Ian. Uh, by day I work at John Hancock on some decentralize
insurance protocols and a theory. I'm on the side. I do a lot of work with nfts, which kind of brings me
here today. Um, yeah,
Speaker 2: 00:24 two. Today we're going to talk about a NFT derivatives in the context of badges
and social capital using nfts. Um, our goal for this 10 minute talk is to kind of change your perspective on
how you view nfts. Uh, originally. Um, so when we look at nfts at face value, we kind of see them, but
for what they are, you know, a Crypto, Katie's a game items are crypto tickets, uh, licenses. Um, but
that's not really what, uh, the secondary use cases are in some cases and what actually makes them
valuable. Um, so hopefully we can cover some things and, uh, I think Ian has some ideas on what else
they can be used for.
Speaker 3: 01:06 Yeah. So I'm, me and Brian have been going back and forth about this for a good
amount of time now. And like you said, I think it's important to start thinking about nfts in other ways
outside of some of the things you just mentioned because they really are useful, um, in more ways than
kind of we're thinking about now. Um, specifically stuff that we've been interested in is the use of nfts
almost like badges or trophies or just general representations of actions or accomplishments you've
made within a network.
Speaker 2: 01:39 Yeah, so some examples of that is like voting on governance, right? So there's
really no incentives to vote on any government proposals on governance pulls all his legs, zero x are all
girls are. Um, so if you're awarded a NFT representing that you voted on this, uh, proposal, then maybe
some third party developer can see that you voted on it and want to incentivize you more to do other
things.
Speaker 3: 02:03 Yeah, and we, there are projects working on this kind of stuff now and you can
actually go start using them and see them. Um, so just these ideas that, you know, get coined presents
with like the Kudos concept. So if you're committing certain amount of code, you get represented with
an actual asset or digital good. Um, there's projects working on nfts that, um, are minted when you
donate to charity. That's another one. Um, but there's a bunch of these and you can kind of imagine a
different nfts being mentored and distributed based on your actions on a protocol. So like right now if
you go vote with Grx on the Z EIP 23, which is like bundles of assets on does your Rx, uh, exchange
protocol, you'll get an NFT and you'll get like a prize for doing this. Um, eat Denver did it at their
hackathon. You'll probably see the other hackathons where, um, so if you win something or you
participate in a network, you're actually being rewarded with an asset. And you can kind of think of this
as the beginning of a digital resume or a digital trophy case that other people can look into
permissionlessly and see the things that you've done. Um, which is pretty interesting,
Speaker 2: 03:08 right? So when you have this kind of trophy case for presenting and you've done
all these actions, can I have a badges accomplishments? Um, you, you can start to quantify the lifetime
value of a certain while at address. So if this user has, you know, voted on this proposal has created a
dao and they've received a competence or nfts for that, then developers can start incentivizing those
wallet addresses to do certain things. This is when you kind of get into like back from NFT too that the
crypto ecosystem and it kind of how it overlaps a bit. Um, I think that they're kind of one in the same
thing. A lot of people see them as two separate things. Um, but now this kind of layer two of nfts where
the accomplishments and nfts up your first regional actions, um, kind of make that original NFT more
valuable in certain ways. Um, and we kind of create this canonical representation of these token ids in
different ways.
Speaker 3: 04:04 Yeah, exactly. So, and you know, that's, we talk about this all the time, right?
The use of these things that you can earn in a two year or by worn or you know, you know, you get
enough and I in that FTE in one silo, but then you can transfer it and use it in another silo. So I think it's
becomes more powerful when we start thinking about the interactions and the bundles of actions we
can take with collections of nfts. So you can start to actually get pretty creative with it and think of some
interesting use cases. So for example, like a, a good decentralized curriculum program where you can
earn specific tokens based on, you know, you know, coding challenges you complete or certain poll
requests you make on like a open source repo. And then being able to exchange that on some platform
for like a degree badge or something. And then, or, or maybe you know, some actions you take earn
you, uh, an empty, that's a claim to a ticket or a claim.
Speaker 2: 04:56 That's it. On a more simpler level, I think we can use like the balance on function
on Erc seven 21 to have a claim to say a crypto. Katie and acce and say, God's unchained card. Right?
And if we collect all those items, like in our curriculum, then we get some NFT or some other crypto
prize for completing those actions. Right? But then we kind of take that out a step further and we say,
okay, we've obtained these crypto, Katie's, this acce and this guy's on Chin card. But now we've also
voted on, you know, governance proposals as well. Um, so now you can have the syllabus of weeks,
okay, we can guide a user if there were like a user journey across the different protocol toward them in
different ways.
Speaker 3: 05:35 Exactly. Yeah. So in a simple way of thinking about it, these things can be used
really to start understanding, you know, the actions people are taking across these networks. And it's a
permissionless way to really understand who is doing what type of work within each of them. And the
good news is that the infrastructure is essentially there and it just requires some middleware to make
these things possible. So like something me and Brian are working on that we think is interesting is just
some simple platform where you can bundle assets and then exchange them for a prize, right? And it's a
simple idea in the middle where it's not hard to create. Um, but it's just simple things like that where
you can kind of unlock a lot of value. And this perspective switch that we're trying to demonstrate here
is that a yes, a crypto kitty is a crypto kitty. But when you combine it, say with a Kudos coin or some
other stuff that you get from contributing to open source, you can bundle those things and receive a
separate reward, right? So it's just the idea that these things don't exist within silos. They can be used
and exchanged in bundles and they can be used for things signaling and all the other types of things that
exist more than just the original world that, that NFT came from. So
Speaker 2: 06:48 now we should talk about the weird question with social capital. Um, so what
happens when you kind of earn an NFT for say, contributing to like get help repo? Um, and now your
incentive by, and then you're able to do certain permissions on other developer networks. Um, what
happens now that NFT that's giving you access is now tradable. Um, cause that's essentially your
reputation. And in that case,
Speaker 3: 07:12 exactly, yes. A simple way to think about it is what say theoretically down the
line we have a decentralized curriculum where you complete achievements and you earn a degree,
right? So this is like an empty that I did all these things. If that NMT is tradable, you automatically think
we don't want people to see these things on an open market and be able to just purchase a degree
without doing the work. Right? So it presents the question should these things be transferrable? Uh, and
what kind of work has to be done around that to ensure that these things still, um, you know, it exists in
a way that's actually valuable and there's different stances you can take on that. Personally, I believe
they definitely should be transferable because say you've done the work to earn an asset but you're not
interested in whatever access you get from that prize, you can sell it on an open mark and you're still
incentivized to do the work. You can also check on chain data and be able to verify who was the original
recipient of a prize or something. Right? So with the additional work, we can still, uh, you know, project
authenticity to like, who was the owner who actually did the work. But you can also sell these things for
like some monetary gain if you're just bored.
Speaker 2: 08:17 Yeah, no, I would probably take the opposite stance on this and he and I go back
and forth on this a lot. I would say it's nontransferable and the case that reputation churning be
transferable in the first gate, that that's your right, uh, to that specific asset and you have access to it.
Um, and once someone transfers that asset, that asset loan longer, it becomes valuable to the party
who has created the requirements for that action to be completed. Um,
Speaker 3: 08:41 yeah. And you know, that, that makes a lot of sense, right? So I think that kind
of begs the question, uh, how do we define standards for these things? Obviously if they're all URC
seven 20 ones, there's still a difference between something that is a, a ticket and a trophy or a badge,
right? Like obviously like you might want to just sell your tickets because you're no longer interested in
something or like an access code, but if it's a badge or a representation of, you know, actions or skills
that you've demonstrated, you might not want to transfer that. So it's kind of like, as we build out these
platforms, we want to keep that in mind and just make sure that we're all on the same page so that it's
still useful. And that there's no doubt when you're looking at someone's trophy case or you're looking
at, you know, a ticket on a market place, like, is this legitimate and are we signaling the wrong things or
are we doing it in a way that's like actually beneficial?
Speaker 2: 09:32 Yeah. So I, uh, hope we change your perspective and the way you view nfts and
uh, hopefully we can kind of create this badge protocol to kind of create this new standard for these
identities are standard or social capitol. NFTS yeah,
Speaker 3: 09:44 exactly. And if you're interested in this kind of idea of badges or questing or, you
know, bundles being traded for prizes, come talk to us cause we have a bunch of thoughts on that.

Ian TRANSCRIPT
Speaker 1: Might actually be more interesting to you. You're going to is also block chain. So I'll tell
you a little bit about both. Um, and then we can dive deeper into having both of these things that I'm
doing. So I guess I'll start with the Daigo eventually. So I worked for John or I guess I'll back up a little bit.
I graduated from Brown last year with a degree in computer science, just putting the guns actually who I
am. Um, and I got into a blockchain during my senior year, so this was, um, probably like the winter of
2017, 2018 is when I got into this stuff. Um, and then throughout my senior year at Brown I was kind of
just working on blockchain stuff, some open source projects, um, contributing. And then I decided when
I graduated, that's kind of the world I wanted to be in.
Speaker 1: So I went to John Hancock, which is where I still work. Um, and we are working on
insurance on the blockchain. That's like what my group is doing. So we are a team of developers and
business strategists who are trying to figure out how can we make, watching work for this and just say
an insurance company, right? Like how can we approach blockchain in a way that makes sense for us as
a business and actually provide value to our customers. Um, so I'll get into that a little bit later cause you
might be interested in it. But what we're actually doing is building a set of tools on a theory them and
we're open sourcing all of it. Um, so they actually directly kind of related. So we, our team within a big
corporation as open sourcing software and unblocking. So I think I can get into that later.
Speaker 1: The stuff that I was talking about at the conference is kind of the other half of what I do.
And um, so, um, was working with a couple people, me and Brian, he was also up there with me. I've
been working very closely and we've been really interested in being at the area. So public blockchains.
So I'm like, you know, about like the JP Morgan and stuff and like the IBM blockchain, but we're really
interested in at Nerium mostly. Um, and what interests us is kind of cloth, cross network interaction.
Um, so there's, if you look at a dairyman and if you look at the web in general, right? There's all these
different platforms and networks that have yet, so in the current web, obviously there's things like
Facebook, you have read it, you have youtube, you have Instagram, you have Yelp, you know, all of the
mini communities or that maybe some of them are very large, but they're just different platforms, right?
Speaker 1: For different types of content. Um, and then if you look in the blockchain world, it's the
same thing, just mirrored on the blockchain. So you have groups of finance application, so they call it
like [inaudible] decentralized finance. Um, so some specific projects there are like Dharma or at
Wednesday third DUI x, which is like derivatives on a blockchain and make it down, which is kind of like,
how do we represent that dollar on the block chain. So you have this suite of financial products, you
have other niches, which is where you probably heard a lot about at that conference. A gaming, um, and
digital goods is the one that we were kind of talking about at the conference. Um, so not just things like
you mentioned like some like centralized Warren's and park duration, um, access in the form of a token.
So you could have this NFP or like some representation of access, um, and just other types of digital
guys, whether it'd be like a game or something you aren't on the Internet.
Speaker 1: Um, we're like a degree or a badge on. And what is really interesting to me and Brian is
the ability to kind of connect all these different platforms. And the blockchain is actually really good for
that because we finally have a set of agreed upon standard. That's the same. We're going through
something like the network layer I think with, um, so what we were talking about in that talk, um, a part
of it was kind of capture some of that value. And that's the platform we're building. So we're building
this thing, it's like a quest lab born is like a name for it. But what it really enables you to do is you can
bundle said, so digital goods or just any kind of digital asset on theory and trade it for other assets
independent of the platform or the network that you know you're trading one.
Speaker 1: So a specific example, you could have people committing to get hub or like a decent size
version of, uh, there was like a badge in the form of a token and then you can trade that for different
type of access rights to like a concert in the form of an NFL team. I take it right. So the high level picture
is there is that now we can use the set of standards to enable is kind of crop platform interaction. And I
guess what's relevant to you is the fact that need standards is the technology that makes all this possible
is all open source. So, um, we're using a theory, we're using, you know, web three javascript libraries,
right? Um, and it's super useful for us as developers because everyone is agreeing upon these standards
and you know, the communities working to make the whole thing better. And you know, it just helps us
a lot and doing this and it's something that we could easily do in the current version of the web. Right.
Cause there's no set of standards for like digital goods specific grade science where you're talking about
at that conference. But um, I can dive more into that stuff or the stuff that John Hancock you've done,
kind of like the approach that we were coming from or like the angle that we were coming from.
Speaker 2: Oh, okay. Very interesting. Thank you for that. It's very helpful. So, so the idea is that if I
say contribute to open, I get a form of digital goods, say a badge and then it has value and so that I can
exchange it for, well, whatever it, right. It could be tickets or it could be money, right? That couldn't be
whatever form of money like ether or bitcoin or something. A stable coin. Okay. So it's effectively, so
when you contribute to open source, you know, collecting various, you know, cookies, right? Like
various rewards. Um, and um, and so your contribution actually effectively, you are effectively paid.
Speaker 1: Exactly. Yeah. And that's what's really cool. And I always convert these things to how
they just maybe because I'm a believer that a lot of the systems today are actually really good and we
don't need a watch and all of them. So like, think about it. Now in today's world, I'm a developer, right?
So for my perspective, if I contribute to an open source project, um, I've, you still get some benefits,
right? Um, so am I going to contribute to Facebook's react? Um, you can go look up my get hub profile
and you can see the commitment I made and that has some sort of value, right? So I can go to a job and
be like, look at all the commits I made. Um, you can kind of signals my ability as a developer. Um, it also
gets me, you know, I, there's a network effect between me and the communities I'm interacting with
open source, right? So by like say on like a particular open source watcher and project and I'm a
developer right now, I can contribute to that project. They can start to see me as a valuable member of
their kind of decentralized team, which does have value to me because if I wanted to go work full time
for them, you know, they can see the activity. I'm not so in the current set up, um, from a developer's
perspective, you could feel like some type of value from distributors.
Speaker 2: Reputation.
Speaker 1: Exactly. Yeah. It's reputation. It's kind of like social capital, right? And that's what the
name of our dog, the interesting thing is once you start using blockchain to, you know, explicitly
attached the awards through your activity, then it becomes more interesting because now you can trade
them and use them in different ways. So before I just gained some type of reputation and social capital
that's kind of like ambiguous and floating in the abyss. But with blockchain I literally have a digital good
that is a representation of the actions that I did. Um, so it kind of like, we're formalizing that idea of
social capital into an actual like digital asset, which I can use maybe to apply for jobs, but you're also, like
you said, uh, exchange it for money. Maybe there's a grant program, it's going to exchange, you know,
I'm not a dollars for developers. You contribute to this, um, which is probably for the JD, right? Um, or
you can think of like other things. So like I could get like a decentralized degree if I earn enough of these
badges are cookies, whatever you want to call them. So I think the assumption here is that there's more
uses for these goods. Um, why don't we tie a blockchain to it? And it's different than just getting this
kind of social capitol or reputation then we had today.
Speaker 2: Got It. And so, so tell me, so the platform we are building allows you to it, it's great. It's
like the standards for exchanging or what, what does it do?
Speaker 1: Yup. Yeah. So it does two important things. Um, the first is probably what you just said.
It's just, it's just the tech that allows you to sync. So we have a web app that lets you go do this, but in
the backend we have instead of smart contracts that let you actually do this. Well No, I've done one
thing. It's very straight forward. Like we built the code that makes you swell. Uh, the second part, which
actually made it more interesting because I don't want to build the swamp. Like that's nothing new. It's
just your shame. The second thing I think that's actually interesting though is making it very easy to
create the kind of rewards or request. So we're building an interface and the backend, the best way that
lets companies or influence he's going create don't reward. So to make this more specific saying I'm a,
I'm a big online Gamer, I play video games and I have like a following.
Speaker 1: I can go in to our black form and easily create like a digital reward and I can give it to be
my fans who watch my stream the most. Maybe follow me on Twitter and follow me on Instagram. So I
we're allowing creators to going through our port on, we create this, you know, this digital, we're born.
And then the other thing, other than just creating like a symbol, an FTE, that's a reward. We're also like a
step two in our plane is actually creating the tech that maps actions to the reward. So when you think
about, I keep saying the phrase like when you contribute to get hot, you get a badge, but there has to be
some code, some underlying service that actually maps like I did this, I'm getting up, I get this reward. So
we're building that connection so that we called out like approved, right?
Speaker 1: Open proof. Um, I think there's actually, I'll send you a, I'll send you a landing page to
that after this. There's a, there's like a landing page for that. Um, that's explained that more. But what
that does is if now attaching digital good to the behaviors or the actions that you're taking on that work,
um, and someone needs to build that actual code to do that. Um, and the value here is that, you know,
it works for get, but we can approach other platforms and they can easily adopt our approved standard
and these things become really useful. So I can say like, um, one thing that I mentioned during my talk
was zero acts as like this big block chain platform out up here and then that does like exchanges. Um,
and if you went and voted on their proposal last week or two weeks ago for like a new feature, you were
getting at t as a reward basically where we're building the tech that would allow other platforms to
quickly like do the same thing, right? Just with a, with a copy paste snippets of code, you can do the
same thing.
Speaker 2: Okay. So and, and so, so in your vision and they understand. So if I'm all done, I want to
kind of take it back to open source if I'm old. Um, yeah. And so then the say there is like a grant to create
open source something and I contribute to part of it and I get a cookie you guys can kind of associated
with his action was make completing and I am a exchange that cookie for money.
Speaker 1: Right. I agree. Yeah. That's the way to think of it. The interesting part is that you can buy
action into intro reward zone. Like right now you've been easily kind of track who is permeating through
a bit of writing. Again, I was great at that, but it's hard to also track who is voting on your opensource
proposals. So that's another thing with open sores and specially in blockchain, um, people need to vote
on new decisions. It's not, a lot of these things are watching specifically when we're making an update to
open source code. We don't have a CEO that can just say make the change or do not make the change.
We have a decentralized group of people that you can vote on what change we want to make. So what
have, we could easily track who did the voting and also who is committed to our project and most, and
we can start to combine these different behaviors.
Speaker 1: And that's where it gets interesting. Cause like now I can track, all right, this person is
contributing to my code, are also voting on my proposals and they're also active within the thread
online. So we know that's like a really good a user and we want to reward them so you can kind of
bundle all these different things and reward people I think more generally for what, like how they're
engaging on mine. Um, and I think what's interesting here is that hopefully we can increase incentives
for people to contribute to open source project other than just the kind of reputation verse that you get
now. Or like the, you know, say going of like good talent. Like maybe we can more easily attach financial
incentives for people to go and fix it. Um, and I, I hope that that would be good. Yeah.
Speaker 2: So what I was concerned is that one of the things, you know, but not now the open
source legalist speaking, it's times with, you know, there's like two sides of it. There's a Lego side which
causes a lot of restrictions, you know, attribution rights and whether or not like copy left rights, all of
those rights. Um, and then there is a perception on the developer side that it's whole free. Um, the legal
reality is actually very complex and you know, cause you guys are thinking about it. Um, there is uh, you
know, there, there is a really good way, you know, cause cause if you look at open source code at the
end they will tell you it's like a patchy code or Berkeley or whatever. Um, and we will and whatever
version and then it will kind of tell you what, what are the rules of the game when you copy and paste it.
Speaker 2: So like you have to attribute it to Oh God, you have to, you know, this, this and that. All
of that could be automated. Right? So all of that, instead of having like me writing a bunch of legalese
telling you what you can do with the code, that that could be automated through smart contracts were
actually like how is that code can be used. One of the things that could change and that is you guys
thinking about it, open source doesn't have to be free entirely. Right? And that may be like that's what
open source, open source. The definitely I know that in the developer community would develop
developer in like when I, you know, I, I, I, I advise many engineers, you know, and there are some, and
there the delivery assumption, opensource equal sign free. It doesn't, that doesn't have to happen.
Something could be open source, meaning anyone can use it provided they pay it all right?
Speaker 2: They could pay, you know, a license, automatic license. So again, that could be in
addition to rights of, of, of our tradition being at American, all of that. Uh, they, the payment could also
be automatic depending, I don't know, on the size of the organization they use the number of licenses
there were. Right. So there is a way to, you know, so there is a way to, if you've kind of stepped back at
the like, and that's one of, I think what I hear you struggle when you say hey there'll be a grant. Well
there's not that many entities has give generous grants. Really the best way to raise money is to have
people pay for the value they're receiving. Right. Somebody created value and the question is who's
going to capture it? Right. That's really, there's a difference between value creation and monetizing. Like
we all like United maybe creating value.
Speaker 2: The question is who will be if anybody monetizing. And so the question was open
source. It's separate question of who creates value, which is probably developers but who is, who is
capturing that value that is less clear. And so there is a way to design the open source project I think was
a bunch of smart contracts where it will also like for the use of it like okay you like my code, you know,
pay, you know 20 bucks. Oh whatever. Like I don't like that is that is a good deal. You don't have to
invest in developers that and saves you a lot of time. Most people would be, I mean the reason people
use it for free because it doesn't cost anything, but like people between like paying zero and like
employing your own developer team, there's like a lot of gray. You lucky like Oh, people will probably
also pay a hundred or a thousand.
Speaker 2: Right. And so that, it doesn't have to be like, I guess [inaudible] pointing out to you
because like open source, it doesn't have to be entirely free. It could, it could be the creation. I will pull,
it could, it could actually build in smarter Tantra that forces people to pay for or bid or whatever to pay
for the volume. And it's still cheaper than me employing a bunch of developers, you know, so, so, so, so,
so, so, so, so the, so to me it sounds like if you can attach to my contribution, the rules, which is kind of
the license, the traditional legal rules of the license. And then if you can also attach to the as or beating
or payment or whatever mechanism, and then you can kind of create a bank that that pulls resources to
pay. And this is why I feel that the blockchain technology can really change the nature of open source.
Speaker 2: We can get away from this notion that it's a free for all, right? Because the conversation
I have with with developers now, when does it all go? It's free. I say, well it is free in a sense that money
don't exchange, but it's not free because it comes with strings attached. So it's one of those things, it's,
it's kind of like, you know, if you ever observed academics, you know, like because there's not been a lot
of cash going on, they argued by publications, effectively, publications become a currency, right? So like
with open source, it's kind of like that money doesn't exchange, but then there's this suicide things like
copy laughed and attributions. That's basically the currency. So, and I know and I'm like, Hey, I would be
happy to pay $1,000 if I don't have to give an attribute for example. Or I would say, so basically there is a
way to kind of take all the strings that touch including money. And I say, if I'm contributing, I have to,
you know, or I set up this project, I will say everybody who contributes, we'll agree that we will make it
available to everyone. Uh, this Ray Rizzo strings or touch. And if you agree to that term contribute and
you gonna get a fraction of the pool calculated this way. Right. And so, and so I think so, go ahead.
Speaker 1: Go ahead. Yeah, that is kind of the perspective that we need to approach these kind of
new normal's. Good. Really interesting. Right. So you know, back to what I was starting, let's say you
could on the blockchain tracks, the actions that I'm taking is specifically for, you know, contribution. It
directly relates to this because like you said, you have a pool that is, you know, accumulating people are
paying user software. That pool of money needs to be allocated somehow with smart contracts, all
automated, we can now allocate the money to the developers who have contributed the most and the
way we tracked their contributions. And just for something like I described, right? So some service that
mass my contribution and like some did you know, whether it's a good or some other type of
representation, um, that's when you have those, the intersection of those things. Um, I be get Kendra's
from honestly, because now as a developer, I could actually earn, fortunately based on my contribution,
it's not just like a social capital that I'm gaining, but it's actually money.
Speaker 2: It's kind of like if you, if this closes, we have an intranet now is those pool. So it's
actually, I mean, this whole copyright law, um, it, it is, the closest we have is, is, um, you all those places
where you can buy images for five bucks. Like I'm happy to pay for a frog image that is like not circulated
everywhere, but only in some places. And I have a license with certain things. Um, and, and, and, and
uh, photographers get royalties basically effective with, uh, so it could be like, it's could be a passive
income basically that and that makes developers not just, Oh, I created code. They also made, makes I'm
evangelists right now. I actually was my labor contributed build this, now I want people to use it. That's
how much I believe in this. And so that could, that could be kind of like with photography, it creates a
stream, a passive stream of income.
Speaker 2: And so they become a stakeholder in this project, which is basically like unincorporated
project that is decentralized and they're contributing to you. And Dave was the contribution. They get a
bigger allocation and they also can get the part, but they also get apart over time. And so they are also
some level become evangelists to it as well. And so that's kind of, I think that's, to me the promise of
blockchain is that people can more directly benefit. The most valuable commodity we have is time. And
if I think she bit my sweat, sweat of the brow, right, my, my labor or whatever my labor is, whether it's
writing a contract, you know, growing strawberries, creating code and I can somehow dot contribution
could be monetized proportional to my contribution. Plus if, if it, that project increases in volume, right?
Because that piece of code has a lot of impact and has a lot of uses.
Speaker 2: I can only, I can not only just be an author and like get a card, but I can kind of get a
stream of income in the same way as you get a stream of income from a piece of photography because
it has some, a bundle of rights. And every time I, it I give you, I don't tell you a picture, so you're right to
use that picture. And every time I do, I get 10 cents or whatever. So, so, so and so and so to me like if he
can rethink open source, right. And this is where like, and this is, I think we're kind of on the same page.
I just come at it from a different, if you come at it from a different perspective of hey, it has to be free, it
doesn't have to be free. Um, and that, and then you can set up the, the, the whomever started the
projects can kind of determine the rules of the game, right?
Speaker 2: You know, what, what does this thing like what, what does it parameters and exchange
then you will and kind of, and, and I was like, this people will have to strike a balance between hey,
availability to others and, and paying for the contributions and you know, they will be over time
competing with other projects. Right. Because I had somebody, like if I'm a developer can determine
kind of an opportunity to cause of helping this project versus that project and that will be a function. Do
I believe in this project? I think it's going to be successful. How much time it will take. Right? Then you
and I may come out differently. Um, and so and so like to me that could solve the problem was open
source. It no longer becomes a communal property that we all kind of abuse. But, but I become as true.
It's actually a little bit like, you know how like, like we have corporations and nonprofits, but then there's
like things like co ops, like it effectively becomes like a co op and tt where are you part owner? And so
you're not just working for quote unquote a paycheck. You working because they're trying to increase
the volume of the whole thing, get a bigger cup.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I think that's part of the reason why it was that kind of general idea. Right? So
now the people who contributed to our network are actually directly benefiting women cause we're
valuable. I think when it was slightly broken, um, maybe like a year or two years ago, people started to
like fog realize idea was that was like the accompanying appreciation model for these open source kind
of thing. So like you can imagine once Sam developer contributing to an open source project now, um,
and it's on blockchain and easy way for me before to gain some financial value of this with buying a
bunch of the tokens that maybe that platform years and hoping that my contributions would make the
token price rise. Right? But what you end up with is a bunch of token holders that are just speculating
on price and they're not actually taking a lot of actors to make the platform better.
Speaker 1: So I think the key is being able to, to track the actions and the contributions more
explicitly that people weren't taking. And that's kind of what I've talked about with these proofs of
action. Right. And I think that's the useful part because now we're not developing where we're not
rewarding all token holders the same, right? You're now we're actually rewarding people based on their
literal contributions to the platform, which I think is a much healthier relationship because now, because
you could look into token holders for any of these like decentralized or open source blockchain projects.
And a majority of them are just priced speculators. They don't, they're not true of Angeles for the
platform because they're not putting in any input. He kept buying a token. Right. Okay. But you could
map, you know, developers are artists, designers, business people's contributions more explicitly to, you
know, and network and its features and you know, the APP or anything.
Speaker 1: Um, I think it would be much more healthier because now I'm a, I'm a developer. I'm
pretty sure that 20% of the pull requests on this open source wallet, um, I'm going to get 20% of this
pool. Um, you know, like you said, if it, if you can charge a fee for that for the code, um, I think that's
awesome. I think it's a really good way to, you know, make that passive income and it disincentivizes me
more. Right? I was a developer specifically if I'm through smart contracts and it's all automated
guarantee a portion of this value pool, that's super cool. So I think the key in some cases is being able to
track those actions. And that's what's interesting to me is now you're not just a token holder, but you're
a verified contributor.
Speaker 2: Right? Right. Yeah. And I think you guys raised the question whether or not you, the
verified that frame, it shouldn't be able to sell it to light aspect of it, which I agree. Right?
Speaker 1: Yep. And that's, that's an interesting question. Um, that we were getting into a lot,
actually grabbed the down with people. Um, I think on a very technical level, like that's the way you're
talking about on stage notions about like talking about the actual code, like in your, your digital good.
Yeah. You should probably be able to transfer it because maybe you want to sell it, she likes, maybe it's
a grant program but it doesn't look like a real grant program, but maybe you're just exchanging it with
like this pool of money. But I think I thoughts off to the level things get weird when you allow people to
purchase, um, you know, representation of your action. So at that point we need a lot of checks and
balances to make sure that, um, these digital goods are verified and that we're doing it in the right way.
Speaker 1: Because you can imagine this, you know, I feel like I deal with a situation where
everyone gets, you know, digital badges based on, you know, the activity they're doing. But the dark
side of that is verifying that the bad news, you're older actually yours and representative of the action
you've actually taken because, um, you don't want to allow it to get broken so that people can just
purchase contributions and stuff because then the economics of the whole system get really messed
and weird. So that's it. That's a key part that we'll need better checks on. You know, if we're going to
represent, you know, activity with digital goods, we need to verify that, you know, you're the true owner
and the true contributor, which I think is
Speaker 2: person or subsequent person.
Speaker 1: I think game as a person, we need to be able to track who was the real person who did
this action that earned, that's who, who, and I got high level. We put in the work and you, and we need
to be able to verify that they put in the work. Um, and it was going to take teams of people thinking
about that problem. The good thing about the blockchain is that data is, you know, verifiable and you
can check history, which is why I think a blockchain is actually useful here because it always comes back
to me. I think a lot of these projects we come up with these ideas, but then you realize that someone
can just build this with a database and like a specific service and you don't need a blockchain. Why? The
awesome part about blockchain in this context is not, we definitely need a way to bear by history and,
and check, you know, what actions you took in the blockchain is great for that. So I think that kind of
further promote this concept that blockchain is now enabling this and it's enabling something that we
couldn't do before. Um, which is key because that's what's interesting to me. It's not what is the
equivalent of business acts on the Washington, but it's what type of behavior can the blockchain
enabled that we just can't do today?
Speaker 2: Right, right. No, that's exactly, yeah. That's kind of when my mind was where I saw at
the wall, you have it too to open sources that, you know, um, my, my attention ambition is kind of
etched into the fabric of what I created. Uh, and uh, and then the volume of any currency is that it, it's, it
could be used anywhere. So if you allow that exchange outside of it, right? Like, you know, that's, that's
kind of a dollar is valuable because you don't know a main reasons, but also because, you know, I can
use it in Mexico and then, and, and at Arec I can exchange or then a Europe. So, Yup. So like if I, if I
contributed and then I earned that cookie, but I need some cash, I can sell it to you. And, and, and you
know, it because I, while value short term return more than longterm, I needed cash today.
Speaker 2: Um, it could be that you will actually benefit from appreciation, right? But, but, but at
all, but, and I got paid and maybe not as much as you did because you were more patient, but patients
in the most economic structures is rewarded. So, so yeah. So there'll be some weird dynamics work
creator who sells quickly. It may not benefit as much as you know, investor, but that's just, that's just
life. But, but I think that's just, that is not all that different from our current system because you can't
force people to hold what they don't want to be holding. But I think what you're saying is being able to
very fine track my contribution and I, this could be sold in this specific thing to many people over and
being able to hold on my battery's dying. Let me hook up my computer and being, cause I, I just, uh,
was, I'm going to get under my table so I can hook it up. No second.
Speaker 3: Okay.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Okay. That's really cool. Uh, so are you guys doing it like, uh, the, does your, does
your employer know you guys are working on that?
Speaker 1: No. Um, yeah, I mean I don't think it's fine cause it's the Brian, we're now, he worked for
doctor labs, right. To get their age. I worked for John Hancock. I'm an anything, it's totally unrelated so I
can say it's fine. They know I'm doing some blocks and work. Um, I guess it's valuable or it's probably
interesting to you what we're doing at John Hancock as well. It,
Speaker 2: I mean it's, I mean I'm, I'm just gonna say I'm gonna put my legal hat just for a second
because you're an employee and I, I've handled employers like that. So just be careful. Like, I mean, yes,
I, I, you're in New York. What state are you in?
Speaker 1: I'm in Boston actually.
Speaker 2: Are you in Boston? So like, you know, just, you know, like I can tell you in California, law
is a very, very liberal, you guys may or may not be as liberal or as we are if it's sort of landed related,
you're cool. Provided that in California, and it may be different than in Massachusetts, last two or three
or liberal too. But I, I don't know on this point provided that you don't use your computer.
Speaker 1: Yup.
Speaker 2: To me that sounds like a cool, I'm not your employer. I don't care that you have a
mistress on the side at all. Good. Um, well we can kind of figure out how we represented in the book
and how I attributed to you and all of that, that that is, I'll work with you on that. But I'm just saying like
whatever you do don't do the rookie mistake of doing around. They're using their tools because that is
like a common test for ownership of, of whether or not it was a product of your employer or yours that
lives in California. And usually it's basically tools and you know, the law was written before computers.
So the only tool you have is a computer practically speaking. So, uh, so make sure you don't
communicate with Ryan through your computer. Don't make sure you don't write the code on your
company, your work computer. Right. So that's, that's usually, there may be more new answers to it and
in Massachusetts, but that's basically provided. I mean I can tell you though, even in the very liberal or
California and it if it's right, if it's provided that there is no subject matter overlap.
Speaker 1: I think that's the key
Speaker 2: thing. A drubbing careful to separate. Yeah. Like you said like Oh code in three occasions
between two computers. Um, I think it's especially because it's both within blockchain there's a weird
gray area as far as like use case. Um, yeah. What I mean if if your employer really wants to do after you
they can say, hey, blockchain project, blockchain project. What's the difference? Right. It's a really like a
level of obstruction question on some level it's kind of ridiculous. It's, it's sort of like saying everything in
blockchain. It's like everything on the Internet is the same, which is when that was not true that there's
a difference between online dating company online and Sas Online. Like, like those. I was like, but that's
because the conversation about Internet has evolved to the point that it's so segmentize now that like I
would say even it was in SAS it's like there is like marketing tools and sales too and storage tool.
Speaker 2: There's like a lot of sudden cyber sub sub segmentations. So like if I were, I was, when I
was a general costs all the way I had, I had a number of engineers who would actually either time to me
and say can I do this? Or like do it in secret, right. The way we would say, hey are you in the same
industry as us? It's actually the ton of local. I've got a very narrow industry but because in this industry is
in the beginning people sort of say blockchain maybe cryptocurrency, but basically, yeah, so the, the,
the, the ad, it kind of depends on the relationship you have was your employer. Yeah. If you have like a
really good relationship and your employer like a supportive and all of that, the, the, the, the actually
the, the safest thing to do is to like say, hey, full disclosure, I'm working on this.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: And I want your permission and acknowledgement that is mine. I do it on my time and
the another come and I can tell you that there are the engineers who we valued a lot who would come
to me and say, Oh God, Oh, I'm working on this online dating company as I'm working out for the SAS
company. Um, and just, just letting you know, and you tell me if you're going to have leaves on a clay
and tried to claim ownership because if you are, I'm going to lose my job. Right. And so like, and then
let's do it. Like I would talk to and depending on how much we value in the employee, like if we do say,
sure, fine, whatever, it's not in the same, here's my email telling you that it's okay. And if we sort of feel
like it's the same or would the water and get rid of the employee will say no. So it depends on how it will
grow. So that's probably the easiest thing to do. Well not the, it's probably the most safest thing to do,
but else outside of that to figure out what the Massachusetts law is. Uh,
Speaker 1: it's relatively liberal, but yeah, I think, you know, I'm lucky because I have a really good
relationship with my employer and my boss kind of promote this type of behavior. But you're right. I
think getting the, you know, um, permission to work on something like some type of like concrete ways
probably pretty useful.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean it's, that's not an issue until you're successful.
Speaker 1: Exactly. Right. Yeah. It doesn't mean anything. Whether it works, right.
Speaker 2: It's like a, the water to everybody wants it and then he gets shit ton of money and
people want part of it. Right. Unless you get there, it says never going to be an issue, but like, look, you
don't like, but so that's why that's one of those things to figure out in your state what the lawyers and
how good are your relationship is and how much are you willing to walk. Right. If you have to like those
are the, because like this was kind of like, it's only an issue and then the very, very rare case where it's
worth a shit ton of money.
Speaker 1: Right. Exactly.
Speaker 2: So what if, but if you are in that 1% that it's like, that's not a conversation like you want
to have was it was your former employer. It's saying that you were doing it on my dime and it's the
coolest sw using my copy machine, making personnel copies. Right. So just, just, just, you know, thinking
about it maybe even when I'm talking to a counselor or something because like that, definitely like, you
know, I mean, and you have time because the blockchain is in its infancy. Chances are by the time your
dad was your project, you'll have many more employers in the middle. Yes,
Speaker 1: exactly. Yep.
Speaker 2: But I mean the best, the best time to disclose this is really as you like about to join a
project. And then you were saying, hey, you know, I like to contribute to all kinds of projects. Full
disclosure, what I do does not, is not in your industry, but I'm, I mean full disclosure and I'm putting it
like in the email so you know, or like in the disclosure form, so later you don't come back to me and say,
look, so it's a perfect time. You just, before you actually joined the company, uh, and you know,
sometimes, but I can tell you because I wasn't illegal executive was whom people have this
conversation, you know, like people would come to me, engineers would come to me and say, I'm
building something. And like, like our are, we record would have been telling me that will be my job
after this job.
Speaker 1: Right. Cool.
Speaker 2: Okay. Well that's interesting. So tell me about what do you, what do you, what are you
building for the insurance and how that related to open source?
Speaker 1: Yeah. So, um, I just for the context of like my team and what our goal was [inaudible]
right. Like every big corporation has their innovation team. Um, in my team specifically is working on
blockchain. So about a year ago we before has joined, one of my friends was the only black engineer,
but they were still just trying to figure out what is the value of blockchain and how can we incorporate it
into our existing business. Um, and at first they could consider it is I am I become useless. Things like
accepting bitcoin as a payment method or something like that. Like not the real value of blockchain as
my team forms were kind of like the blockchain, I say optimist. So we're big on like the, you know, crowd
source interaction, peer, peer, public, like that side of the watching world. Um, so we were like, how can
we fail a totally new experience on the blockchain that still is useful for John Hancock.
Speaker 1: So, um, we, we spoke with a lot of people and we do a lot of like r and D and we figured
out that there's probably ways that you can barrel insurance aggregates or risk pools on the blockchain,
um, that provide better rates and more diverse products, any insurance. So we're like, I remember he
was assumption that, um, if people pool their resources of knowledge and capital on the blockchain, we
could probably make some new types of insurance products that are pretty useful. Uh, so after we kind
of figured that out, we were like, so where do we start as this game within John Hancock? And what we
decided would be most useful and most effective would actually be building a standard for insurance on
the blockchain. So the same way that Erc 20 FTEs are standards on a theory on, you know, instead of
rules that the developer is abide by, um, we're developing a standard for insurance products on the
blockchain.
Speaker 1: Does other great theory. Um, so it's like a set of rules are and code to say what makes
up insurance, um, what are like the core pieces that you need? And allowing people to go and years
these tools that we're providing to build their own insurance products. So at a very high level, we're just
building a tool kit so that other developers to use our software to build more specific insurance Bronx
there. Um, and as we were building it, we decided that this needs to be open sourced because that's just
what I'm right now when a lot of developers in this space like to work with, that was our original like don
problems. Like people like in block and they're like open source, we're going to open source this. They're
a corporation was actually really willing to help us do that. So we've been working with that set of like
legal counsel, internal and external to help us do that. Um, and just teams around the company and they
gave us the go ahead. Um, so, you know, build this software and release it open source. Um, which is
cool cause it's like the first open source piece of software that John Hancock and um,
Speaker 2: is it publicly available? Alrighty.
Speaker 1: No. So we're, we're launching, um, don't quote me on this one, but it's sometime late
next month, but very soon. Oh, okay. Yeah. Um, so we're literally, we're going right now, but we're,
we're almost done with it and we're right now we're just kind of working on like a launch approach, like
the marketing, all that stuff.
Speaker 2: Um, and so the hope is that developers incorporated into their,
Speaker 1: yeah, exactly. The, the, the goal is to have developed greater release. I get up and say
this is a set of tools or the goal is to work with developers or just have developers on their own, build
these new types of insurance products.
Speaker 2: What would John, what John have a back it up. Risk is up to appetite. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah. So that's um, an important part of this. So, um, basically in order to make these
kind of products work on a theory and you need a bunch of different parts, um, cause they're going to
insurance one of them actuarial work. So you need really smart actuaries to create models, you know,
tomato insurance, right? Like that's an important thing. So you need smart actuaries and they
experience to contribute their expertise in the form of like a function that he was card and your need.
The biggest thing that's the hardest to figure out is you need a bunch of capital. You need money to
make policy Solomon and be able to, you know, obviously town people when they make claims on an
event. Um, so John Hancock, the goal is to work with them to get them to support us and kind of both of
those ways.
Speaker 1: So, um, we'll probably release a product of our own. So like hypothetically you can
imagine John Hancock is going to do micro moment insurance for like transfers like large transfers on it.
Here, I'm like exchanging video exchanges. So like if there's an error in the code and you're saying you've
messed up and you lose money, you're back by, there's a completely hypothetical example, but think
about it. Um, we, we would probably offer that specific product and actually use John Hancock
resources to make it work. Um, so backing up a little bit, the goal is we build this set of tools. We'll
probably build some of our own project using the tools and we're hoping other people build their own
stuff. And it's very like, it's very symmetrical with the react, right? Facebook don't react. They use it in
their, in their own apps. Um, other people use it for their own stuff and reactors becomes better as a
result.
Speaker 1: So I mean that's, I mean that's where a lot of open source product derived that come
out of big corporations. They want the technology to be good as it can. We're hoping that by open
source of yet aren't, our tool set becomes really good and it also helps us release these new types of
products and the blockchain. So that's Kinda like what we're envisioning for the company has actually
been a pretty cool about it. They're on board. It's saving a lot of education that kind of explained to
them what the value prop of blockchain it cause it, you know how it is kind of weird, um, before you get
into it, like especially weird because we don't want to cannibalize our own business. I got the same time,
right? We don't want to offer products that are cheaper than our existing products, but also open
source and no fees that go to. So like we don't want it to feel business from our own product. So we had
to be careful to, uh, to create the right types of things you said. So then I actually adds value to talking
Hancock.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, and there's a difference between short term while you and the long term
while you right there, there's a good argument that the whole spaces is there. So that in the short term
you may not be, his may not be helping because you have a centralized business, but if the whole world
is moving, so that's a different conversation.
Speaker 1: Yeah. But that's like we mentioned that along with the exact, to that specific argument.
Speaker 2: Did you just, did you, did you, did you look at, are you familiar with Quan stamp? Where
I'm a strategist.
Speaker 1: Oh, I've heard of quantum Sam. I don't know why
Speaker 2: specific. And so that's, this is where it may be interesting. Maybe you may have an
interest for me to introduce you to our founders. And the reason I say that, and then, you know, I mean,
I, I totally get that. You mean, you know, young cog in a big corporation and there was like a business
person was whom I was homemade may, I would, may have to talk to the reason I say that. So we, you
know, we're a security company. We, we build a protocol that secure smart contracts that would
basically review, we have a bunch of analyzers that are part of our protocol that basically give you a
report of all the vulnerabilities that, and that is kind of our white paper or white paper or also talks
about assurance, uh, which is kind of a form of insurance. Um, and so the idea if he, I'm sure he can now
kind of connect the dots.
Speaker 2: It when it was all my telling you is, uh, you know, we have nodes and people stake on,
um, on how secure your smart contracts is and then, and that's backed up by money. Yup. Right? Yep.
And so that's where the insurance comes in. And so, um, and we are very actively building that
assurance protocol. So I might, I think my guys would be very interested to talk to you, to you about the
open source. We, you guys are building as you say, you may be looking for a project to test drive this.
We may be, we may be a perfect test drive. I'm sorry.
Speaker 1: Definitely for actually those types of products that we originally envisioned would be
highly product because doing something that's crypto native is so much easier because you don't need
as complex or goals. Right. So, um, I think it's definitely, I was wanting to learn more. I'll read into it
anyway how it works and I think
Speaker 2: we don't have a lot of pub what you look, look about a website there is a little bit or you
can find, I mean honestly what you, what needs to be happening is you talked to Richard or Steven
Bowls, which are our cofounders. I can tell you, but I drive strategy or for quantum stuff I work with, like
I work with product marketing league, I work with everybody. Uh, and uh, and I can tell you we are very
actively building our assurance protocol. But how I'm really like release the whole lot. We have been
thinking, we have realized that, you know, insurance, like I'm like John Hancock insurance is not our
strong suit. It's, it's a complicated business. So I can tell you that I've been thinking about how to wrap
my mind both legal and business and technically around this issue. So while I don't fully appreciate, I
mean I can understand what you're building, but I don't fully appreciate it for many reasons, including
because I'm not technical enough.
Speaker 2: I do think, you know, um, each, I think what may make sense for you to have an
informal conversation was Richard and Steven and, and see like if they like once the two, cause the day
engineer's you're an engineer, you guys can meet him, decide whether or not this is in the round of
possible pilot as useful to each other. Right? And so if the answer to that is yes, then we can think
through how to escalate it in hot, like right. How we can make it actually make it legally palatable for
people in your organization to work with us. Right. So, yeah,
Speaker 1: that'd be great. And they're there on, actually they're really progressive and allowing us
to do that. So like we've, we're working with algorithm like another big dog chain, um, and talked to him
like putting our software into their corporate girl so John had gone off and go do it. So, um, yeah,
they're, they're open to us. You know, you working with as many groups as we can if it adds value. So
yeah, that'd be, that'd be cool to learn more.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Let me give you, let me give you, I made sure to Steven and Richard and you guys
get on an informal call and maybe I'll join it. That's sort of like as, as a fly on the wall, just so that I can
kind of see the progression of this. This is the way totally independent of the book. I did. I totally did. I
totally did not anticipate that this is where this conversation's going to go. Uh, so, uh, cause I want to
kind of like I'm mixing business and personal and fun and all of it, but, but, but what you guys are
building this super interesting and definitely I can tell you that that kind of cuts into the issues that I've
been considering as we've been building our product. And I do think that I know sometimes like people
started as a business conversation and then get into technical.
Speaker 2: I actually think because what looked up the technology is so complicated. I actually think
it makes sense to start with on the technical side and see like if we're like in the realm of the same type
of thing and then we can kind of soul like what, when you're on the dozer side, let me introduce you to
one or both of them. They are also traveling. Um, so that, and I know you have to run it. I want to be
respectful of your time so we can continue this conversation. I, I will go through the recording, kind of
take my notes, make an introduction and then maybe we'll continue this. Cause this was very interesting
for me as you teacher
Speaker 1: talking about this stuff.
Speaker 2: But I bet you, I think you have some really cool perspectives. Yeah. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye.
Totally Geek out this I went, I went to law school because I liked it. No, I was an engineer for a couple of
years and then I realized that I, I like different things. But the reason I went to law school is because I,
I've, I've basically been a tech lawyer for her for a long time. That one representative basically emerging
cutting edge businesses and used to thinking of kind of how to push through the legal boundaries. And I
definitely think blockchain is one of those places. So I do think that because of the complexity of
technology, it makes sense to sell started engineering level conversation. I think you will. I, if anything, I
think you will very much enjoyed meeting the two, the two of them because they're just kind of the,
we're also, so we started building on a theory.
Speaker 2: I'm too, so what kind of native to to that? Uh, we, because we have some fortune 500
companies clients and they like hyperledger. We, we, we and the platform is blockchain agnostic. So we
were open minded and we block here agnostic and all of that. But truly our roots are in the Syria, which
is actually another reason why I like what you like. You one of the few enterprises that actually, and I
think what you're building it makes sense to build it on the serum. So I think there's a lot of like in
addition to being crypto native, also etherium native, right?
Speaker 1: Yup.
Speaker 4: Okay.
Speaker 2: So
Speaker 1: yeah, no, that'd be awesome to learn kind of the good work you're doing and then go
from there based once we're on the same page.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. If you guys are building tools that are complimentary to what we're building
and, and, and we like a good pilot for you tools. I, you know, I think we can make it, I think that would be
a really cool, because we as we are building, we are also like, wow, there's this really complex business
of insurance. Yup.
Speaker 1: You know, there's some knowledge you could occur.
Speaker 2: Yup. Fantastic. APP, so I know I took a lot of your time. Thank you so much. Let me, let
me kind of, let me digest this out. I will likely ask you for another kind of continuation of the discussion.
Let's just may take a little bit of time, um, and then let it, and also let me talk to my guys and what I will
do is I'll introduce and then you, and then we'll facilitate a call and then we'll go from there.
Speaker 1: Yup, that sounds good. Thanks Ron. Go draw this. It's super interesting to me, Pria Rico,
with any questions we can go from there.
Speaker 2: Fantastic. Thank you for spending your time. I really appreciate it. And I'm sorry I stood
you up last time. This was great. Thank you. I appreciate it. You too. Bye.

GuardTime and Verizon

For businesses looking to implement blockchain for its enhanced security, the idea of keeping data
transactions on a public ledger is simply unpalatable. This holds especially true for those working with
proprietary technology or sensitive data. Yet since that description includes thousands of businesses,
some alternative is needed.
If this sounds like you, well, Verizon has you covered.
The telecommunications giant partnered with GuardTime to implement their Keyless Signature
Infrastructure (KSI) Blockchain technology into their suite of enterprise business-tool offerings. Through
their blockchain-integrated Virtual Network Services (VNS) platform, only encrypted versions of data
transactions are posted to the public blockchain. This obscures sensitive data from any nefarious actors.
The technology was first developed for use by the Estonian government and has subsequently placed
the country at the forefront of crypto-progressive states. The technology is also being used by
companies like Lockheed Martin to bolster network security. As the tech’s benefits continue to prove
valuable, more and more companies will seek to use it. Like IBM, Verizon’s decision to create a
blockchain-integrated tool suite for non-blockchain centric companies is contributing to the proliferation
of the technology.

Disney and DragonChain

When Disney lets their Imagineers run with a project, the results are creative and rarely
disappointing. In 2014, Disney established a division at their tech-centric Seattle office to create an
internal secure-asset management system that runs on blockchain. The goal was to create a blockchain
that offered complete privacy and required no public-facing ledger. Unfortunately, the project was
shelved in 2016 and made open-source. This, however, allowed a group of Disney employees to take the
reins and develop it into what we know today as DragonChain.
In other words, the team took DragonChain and turned it from a private chain into a Private/Public
hybrid like the one Verizon offers. The “public” part of the chain is essential for detecting fraudulent
transactions on the network, which is very important for enterprise applications. DragonChain now
features itself as a turn-key solution for businesses that are looking to integrate blockchain with an
added layer of privacy. It’s very much in competition with Verizon.
Let the blockchain wars … BEGIN
Dragonchain Commented [OM16]: https://builtin.com/blockchain/blo
Location: Seattle ckchain-as-a-service-companies
How it’s using blockchain: Starting as a company within Disney, Dragonchain’sBaaS platform focuses on
the protection of vital business assets and data. The company uses serverless cloud architecture to
improve interoperability, and privacy, between blockchains that share a businesses’ most important
information, like finances.

Kaleido – Consensys business keleido.io Commented [KM17]: Research

Sophia Lopez, CEO (on LI)

R3
There is no greater testimony to the impact blockchain has than the sheer number of companies
behind R3, a consortium behind a distributed financial ledger called Corda that operates like a
blockchain while denying it is one. The consortium started in 2015 with financial institutions like
Barclays, Credit Suisse, Goldman Sachs, J.P. Morgan, and Royal Bank of Scotland, and has
grown to more than 70 partners, including Bank of America and Wells Fargo.
Corda is a specialized ledger for financial institutions to process financial transactions. The
ledgers are interoperable, so software applications can communicate, exchange data and use
that exchanged data.

HPE R3
HPE's has a blockchain SaaS offering is based on Corda. The offering runs Corda on HPE's
Mission Critical server services to deliver resiliency and scalability for enterprises bringing
distributed ledger applications into production. HPE’s Mission Critical DLT systems promise
virtually no down time, and in the event of infrastructure failure, transactions are not lost. They
are saved and processed once the system is running again.
See user reviews of HPE R3

NuID Commented [KM18]: Research

nuid.io -- trustless authentication and decentralized digital identification to eliminate need for
businesses to store passwords

BLOQ
Bloq
Location: Chicago
How it’s using blockchain: Bloq offers a suite of BaaS tools that focus on key issues in business
reconciliation, authentication and security. The software platform helps businesses build and
personalize the BaaS technology that suits their current needs. Some of their specific blockchain
products include a smart wallet, a smart contract platform and a decentralized cloud to help businesses
store and manage data.

FACTOM
Factom
Location: Austin, Texas
How it’s using blockchain: Factom has two tools dedicated to BaaS for managing and securing important
documents. “Factom Harmony” is a ledger tool that converts documents to a singular digitized platform
to reduce audit times and costs. Factom’s “dLoc” uses encryption to authenticate and verify personal
documents like land titles and birth certificates.

BLOCKSTREAM
Blockstream
Location: Mountain View
How it’s using blockchain: Blockstream’s BaaS creates scalable solutions for the Bitcoin ecosystem and
protocol. The company’s Bitcoin processing software creates a larger peer-to-peer financial system that
eliminates the need for third parties.

PAYSTAND
PayStand
Location: San Francisco
How it’s using blockchain: PayStand incorporates blockchain into payment and documenting processes
to ensure immutability and auditability. The company’s BaaS installs networks that notarize certificates
(like diplomas, deeds and receipts). It also provides an admin platform that gives users an in-depth and
real-time look into their data. Additionally, the PayStand network automates parts of the end-to-end
financial process, including cash management, accounting and reconciliation.

TZERO
tZERO
Location: Midvale, Utah
How it’s using blockchain: tZERO integrates its BaaS ledger into financial platforms to create traceable,
real-time movements in the finance industry. The company’s tZERO security token, paired with its
“Digital Locate Receipt” platform, helps financial institutions distribute cryptocurrency and trace it
throughout the end-to-end spending process.

SKUCHAIN
Skuchain
Location: Mountain View
How it’s using blockchain: The Skuchain EC3 Platform installs blockchain-based infrastructure in current
IT processes for the shipping and logistics industry. The company’s ledger enables businesses to
simultaneously access a cloud environment, blockchain protocol and in-house applications. Compatible
with any supply chain process, Skuchain’s BaaS immediately installs smart contracts and chain-of-
custody tools.

SYMBIONT
Symbiont
Location: New York
How it’s using blockchain: Symbiont lends its BaaS to fintech companies in a variety of sectors. Fintech
companies and banks that lend for mortgages and loans use the company’s blockchain to verify
origination of records and transparently record all payments on a ledger. Private equity firms and
crowdfunding platforms can use Symbiont to secure private documents and show ownership of
securities in real-time.

LEEWAYHERTZ
LeewayHertz
Location: San Francisco
How it’s using blockchain: LeewayHertz offers a full suite of blockchain-based services, including
blockchain consulting, hybrid ledger installation and maintenance. At LeewayHertz, the end-to-end BaaS
offerings range from ideation to installation. The company has already developed decentralized
applications (dApps) for industry leaders like Disney, Budweiser and 3M.

VIRONIT
VironIT
Location: San Francisco
How it’s using blockchain: VironIT offers a multitude of BaaS services, including consulting and
blockchain-based mobile app development. Specific examples of the company’s BaaS include everything
from smart contract development and auditing to development of cryptocurrencies and digital wallets.

ALTOROS
Altoros
Location: Sunnyvale, Calif.
How it’s using blockchain: Altoros uses blockchain to automate workflow processes, fortify identity
security and manage records. The company has installed blockchain in a variety of industries, including
telecommunications, finance, energy, supply chain and manufacturing. The permissioned blockchains in
these industries do everything from mitigate fraud to detect faulty parts.
APPINVENTIV
Appinventiv
Location: New York
How it’s using blockchain: Appinventiv offers a full suite of blockchain-based tools and solutions for
almost every industry. The company builds dApps for healthcare, entertainment, logistics, fintech and
more. Over the last four years, Appinventiv has produced more than 700 dApps that feature everything
from smart contracts to crypto wallet developments.

BLOCKAPPS
BlockApps
Location: New York
How it’s using blockchain: BlockApps develops security-focused, permission-based BaaS solutions for
enterprise customers. The company’s blockchain development environment is designed to run a node
locally or on the cloud, and can be launched in a matter of minutes. The BlockApps BaaS platform has
been used to develop blockchain solutions for everything from smart insurance contracts to fraud
prevention in ticketing tools.

FLUENCE
Fluence
Location: San Francisco
How it’s using blockchain: Fluence is an API for businesses to deploy, integrate and manage smart
contracts and blockchains in their own environments. The Fluence API lets companies do everything
from create dApps to deploy public net nodes.

CRYPTOWERK
Cryptowerk
Location: San Mateo, Calif.
How it’s using blockchain: Cryptowerk’s Blockchain-as-a-Service helps businesses create ledger-based
tools that seal off important data and create a tamper-proof chain-of-custody. The Cryptowerk Seal — a
blockchain API that uses ledgers to verify the authenticity of data and digital assets — has been use for
everything from shipment ID codes and GPS telemetry in cars to gathering data from smart energy
meters.

CLOVYR
Clovyr
Location: New York
How it’s using blockchain: Clovyr is an ecosystem of blockchain applications that allows teams to
experiment, iterate and deploy products quickly and safely. Employing a hybrid of permissioned and
public networks, Clovyr offers its users upgraded immutability and authentication standards.
KALEIDO
Kaleido
Location: Raleigh, N.C.
How it’s using blockchain: Designed with business networks in mind, Kaleido'sBaaS platform helps
enterprises quickly build blockchain-based cloud networks. Kaleido clients can manage multiple clouds
using blockchains that run across the Microsoft Azure and Amazon Web Services networks.

INNOMINDS
Innominds
Location: San Jose, Calif.
How it’s using blockchain: Innominds’ Blockchain-as-a-Service creates products for smart contracts and
cryptocurrencies that allow businesses to build and test blockchain products, develop crypto solutions
using Ripple and maintain interledgers — protocols used for payments between blockchain
networks.

BitSE
BitSE runs VeChain, a Chinese cloud product management platform built on a blockchain in
collaboration with PricewaterhouseCoopers (PwC) to boost blockchain adoption in the Asia-
Pacific markets.
VeChain focuses on four areas: anti-counterfeiting, supply chain management, asset
management and client experiences. It allows merchants to put unique IDs on products to
prevent counterfeiting, a major problem in Asia. Its first major use was with D.I.G., China’s
largest fine wine importer, to stop counterfeit wines.

Blocko
South Korea’s Blocko has more than 90% marketshare of the enterprise blockchain market in its
native country. Their blockchain-as-a-service platform, Coinstack, is used by Samsung, LG
CNS, Hyundai and many of the other national giants. It set up a biometric login and payment
authorization system for Lotte Card, a major South Korean credit card provider, which reduced
authentication time from 7-10 minutes to 2-3 minutes, which in turn cut Lotte Card's annual
security solution expenditures to 10% of their original operating costs.

Blockstream
Blockstream offers a micropayment processing system called Lightning Charge on its Lightning
Network for making payments with Bitcoin. It’s designed to make it easier for developers
creating Lightning-powered payments applications. Blockstream claims its network allows for
faster and cheaper than using the native Bitcoin blockchain network.

PayStand
PayStand uses blockchain technology to simplify the sending and collecting of money in the
accounts receivable and payable process. Its network automates cash management from
accounting software to reconciliation. PayStand customers can certify and notarize payments
from request to receipt and third-party notaries or auditors manage certifying payment records,
eliminating the possibility of tampering.

Peer Ledger
Peer Ledger offers identity management blockchain to externally certify real-world identities,
giving blockchain real-to-digital identity mapping, something the company says the technology
has lacked. Peer Ledger uses the public key infrastructure (PKI) system to certify identities
outside the blockchain before connecting them to blockchain accounts. The company is
targeting trust-sensitive industries such as healthcare for their solution.

**********************
How a startup can capture this value Commented [OM19]: Writer: you will need to do
research for this section. Pls let me know if you need
How established enterprises can capture this value guidance. Make conclusions based on what you find in
previous sections and research.
Commented [OM20]: Writer: you will need to do
Conclusion research for this section. Pls let me know if you need
guidance. Make conclusions based on what you find in
Why Blockchain As A Service Solutions Aren’t Blockchains previous sections and research.
The news that IBM and Walmart are using blockchain to track food seems like a win for the
larger blockchain initiative. I had friends and family sending me recent articles about the Food Commented [OM21]: Writer: you will need to do
research for this section. Pls let me know if you need
Trust platform, saying, “Hey, isn’t this what you do?” guidance. Make conclusions based on what you find in
More awareness is certainly a good thing, there’s no doubt about it. previous sections and research. Pls include some
Food safety is so very important in our increasingly globalized and networked supply chains. I provocative stuff from the source below re the debate of
whether Baas is even blockchain.
mean, come on, folks are dying after eating a BLT sandwich with tainted romaine lettuce.
Packaged food is no safer, as we saw after 100 Salmonella infections in 33 states tied to
Commented [OM22]: https://hackernoon.com/why-
Kellog’s cereal. blockchain-as-a-service-solutions-arent-blockchains-
But as the co-founder of a company working towards establishing an industry-run, decentralized 8d588b1f35ce
blockchain solution, the Walmart and IBM blockchain is a joke. No one should own the supply
chain or set up a blockchain as a service (BaaS) platform.
I have nothing against large companies, but a centralized solution goes against the ethos of
blockchain. The service is being marketed as an ecosystem, but it’s not.
It’s a centralized product — buying it is just like buying a cloud service.
It’s not beneficial for the blockchain space if companies are lightly throwing around terms like
“solution,” “protocol,” or “ecosystem.” The last thing the industry needs is for meaningful terms
to become overused, malleable buzzwords that are defined according to the needs of a
company.
Creating a true blockchain ecosystem requires companies to rethink the structure of their
businesses and their business models. It’s not the easiest way to implement these solutions, but
it will have the most value in the long run.
Here’s why the centralized approach lacks the same impact:
A true blockchain ecosystem is a decentralized network governed by nodes.
The BaaS approach several companies are taking is fundamentally at oddswith the ethos of
decentralization. They’re marketing, building, and selling blockchain as if it’s a platform or a
solution. They’re using the word “ecosystem” to describe what they’re building, but they’re not
operating the technology in a way that gives life to that term.
If companies want to create an ecosystem, they have to spend time figuring out who belongs in
the network and then bring everyone together to participate and collaborate on the challenges of
governance.
Instead, companies are taking the approach of owning and managing the blockchain
themselves.
It’s very clear when a business is running a centralized platform, using blockchain as a
buzzword. It’s a top-down approach, in which the company becomes the gatekeeper who
controls the nodes and the services on the network.
As a purist, I think anything that requires human governance to be at odds with the concept of
decentralization. I also believe that permissioned networks fundamentally challenge the concept
of what it means to be a blockchain but hey, we aren’t there yet.
The blockchain industry may still be young, but I don’t think it’s fair or accurate to call something
an ecosystem when it’s controlled by one company.
No one group should own the operations.
A truly decentralized network isn’t practical, no matter the industry.
There has to be an entity that facilitates the network and brings participants together. Yet larger
companies are using that line of reasoning to create an entirely centralized platform.
The beauty of blockchain is that it’s possible to create intra-industry use cases that have
previously evaded the participants. But the only way to do that is through ecosystem building
and industry-wide participation.
For instance, take a look at what IBM and Walmart did earlier in the year when they tracked
mangoes through the supply chain. That point-to-point routing was a great use of the
technology, and it wouldn’t have been possible without a blockchain solution. The issue here
isn’t necessarily whether or not the two companies are using blockchain for valid solutions — it’s
how they’re executing and implementing those solutions.
As massive companies, they’re going to influence the future of blockchain adoption. So, it’s
important for them to be working towards solutions that provide long-term value to the
companies that use them.
It’s difficult to broaden and become decentralized if a blockchain network begins in a
very centralized manner.
There’s no doubt the relationship between IBM and Walmart will affect how other companies
build their networks. There was always going to be a degree of centralization in this space
because some people simply won’t be able to let go of the way they’ve always done things.
Still, this isn’t the best way for the industry to move forward, because it sets a standard some
businesses may decide to fall in line with. Once that happens, they’ll never get past the point of
centralization.
Other companies are trying to tackle these issues in the right way, facilitating decentralized
networks by offering tools to allow industry ecosystems to form. The goal should be to bring
parties together and offer them a way to participate and contribute to the formation and
governance of the network.
Only when everyone has a voice can the solutions that truly change an industry be built.