Per! from, Brecht on Theatre: The Development " Brecht on Theatre: The Development mdr of an Aesthetic. an Ed, and Trans by John Willett s are > sided t “that tb Ietobe oli ith just rey sor diferent Al this demands 4 new and special technique, and I'm not the ony iter to have trod to create it. People like Georg Kaiser and hs follower O'Neil have successfully applied quite new methods which are good and interesting even if their ideas don't enincide with my own, In the same way Paul Claudel im France, a severe and reactionary writer, is an orginal dramatist of great stature, In such ways penple who haye nothing new in tnind have none che less done pioneering work fr the new technique. ‘Of course thos actors whom we employ have algo to use special method of representation, We need to get right away from the old naturalistic Schoo of acting, the dramatic school ith its large emotions: the schoo fol= lowed by people like Jantings, Poul Reumert, in short by the majority. This isnt the Kind of representation that ean expres our times it isn't going 0 ‘sway a purely modern audience. For tat one ha to apply the nly form of fctng that I find natural: the epic, storyceling kind, fs the kind the Chinese have been using for thousands of years: among moder. actors Chaplin is one ofits masters. "This wis the kind of acting that was always wed in our theatres; you in Denmark may know a bit what I mean from The Threepenny Opers, The actor docst® have toe the man he portrays. He has t describe his char~ acter just a8 it would be desribed in a book. If Chaplin were to ply Napoleon he wouldnt even lok like im; he would show objectively and ‘rtally how Napoleon woald behave in the various situations the author ‘night put him in. In soy view the gest comedians have always been the best character ators ‘Does that give you some slight impression of my ideas? Then please ced up by saying that I don'e think Fascism is going tobe able to puta stop ‘tn the natural development of the younger German school of playwriting, ‘though heaven knows where it will be carried on. [Brom Erle, Copenbagen, 20 March 193 quoted by Helge Halberg. in Die astershen “changes Bertolt Brecht, Copenhagen 1952) The interviewer here was Lath Otto and the words, trandlated into sh and back into German, are hardly Brecht. One or two evident misprint en eoereted, bat mistakes like the identification of Meyerbol's theatre the Mosaom Art Thar, the mismig of Lana's Kowundrr and the to "ay" Theater tm Schffbaerdamm have heen allowed 0 sand. Halberg tn queries Breet claim t have ben proce ong ble Df my plays were wage’ but thie ner more an exaggrstion than 28 Beech was in fact engaged racially inthe thee for at asta lore Trmmeln in der Nacht was put gy taking part sow (if only rh) in the ridvction of Bronnen's Vatermord ae the Bein Junge in spring ta. the ime ofthe interven Bret ha etd in Denar, where the writer J. Aatiche’s included The Tirecpwny Opera and Happy End asd Maicise Ps Die Pore so Tagaledor8 mo by Cath Cred. 20 - Theatre for Pleasure or Theatre for Instruction few years back, anybody talking about the modem theatre meant the rin Moscow, New York and Been, He might have thrown ina men- cof one of Jouver's productions in Paris or Cochran’s in Landon, or Dyk as given by the Habima (which isto all intents and purposes ofthe Russian cheste, since Vakhtangov wae it director). But broadly if there were only three capitals so far as modern theatre wat Russian, American and German theatres differed widely from one er, but were alike in being modern, that isto say in introducing tech ‘and artistic innovations. In a sense they even achieved = certain resemblance, probably because technology is international (not that part which is directly applied tothe stage but also that which it, the fil for instance), and because large progressive cites industrial countries are involved. Among the oder eaptalist counties fs the Berlin theatre that seemed of late to bein the ead. Fora period that is common to the madern theatre recived its strongest and (sf) rest expression there.enexY oN THEATRE: 1892-1047 ‘The Bevin theatre's hat phase was the so-aled epic theate, and ic showed the modern theatre's trend of developmen initspurest frm, What cver was labeled “Zettil o Pisatorbihe ot Lbratc belongs othe pie theatre ‘Many people imagine thatthe term ‘epic theatres sefcontradictory, as the epicand dramatic was of narrating a story are held fllowing Arse, to be basicaly disinct. The diffrence between the two forms was never thought simply to ie in he fac thatthe one is performed by living beings ‘while the other operates vs the written word; epie works such as those of Homer and the medieval singers were athe Same time theatrical pet- formances, while dramas ike Goethe's Faust and Byron's Manfred are agreed to have been mote effective as books. ‘Thus even by Aristotle’: Aefntion the dtferenceherween the dramatican epic forms was attributed to ther diferent methods of enstructin, whose laws were dealt with by two differen branches of aesthetics. The method of construction depended ‘onthe different way of presenting the work to the public, sometimes via the stage, sometimes through a bok and independently ofthat there was the “dramatic element in epic works and the ‘epic element in dramatic, The ‘bourgeois novel in the last century developed much that was ‘dramatic’, by ‘which was meant the steong centralization of the story, a momentum tht ‘ew the sepurate puts into 2 common relationship. A particular passion of viterance, 2 cettn emphasis on the lah of Forces ae hallmarks of the “dramatic. The pic writer Dobin provided an excellent eiterion when he ssid that with an epie work, as opposed toa dramatic, one can a it were take a pair of scissors and cit it into individ picrs, which remain fully capable ofife. “This i no place to explain how the opposition of epic and dramatic lost it rigidity after having long been held tobe ireconelable, Let us just point ‘out that the technical advances alone were enough to permit the stage incorporate an clement of narrative in its dramatic productions. ‘The posibiity of projections, the greater adaprailty of the stage due to ‘mechanization, the film, all completed the theatre's equipment, and did ‘0 a point where the must important transactions berween people could ro longer be shown simply by persnifying the motive forces or subjecting the characters to invisible metaphysical powers. "To make these transactions intligile the envionment in which the people lived hud to be brought to bear in a big and ‘significant’ way. ‘This environment had of course been shown in the existing drama, but P only as seen from the central igure’: point of view, and not as an inde- pendent clement. It was defined bythe hero's reactions to it Tt was sen as 4 storm ean be sen when one ees the ships on a sheet of water unfolding theic sis, and the sls filling out. In the epic theatre it was to appear standing on its own “The sage began totella story. The narrator was no longer missing, along. vith the fourth wall No only did the haehground adopt an attitude to the vents on the stage ~by big screens recalling other simultaneous events tloewhere, by projecting documents which confirmed or contradicted what the characters sid, by concrete and ineligible figures to sceompany ab stract conversations, by figures and sentences to suppoct mimed transac~ | tions whose sense was unclear but the actors too refrained from going ‘over wholly into their role, remaining detached from the character they were playing and clearly inviting ertcsm of him. "The spectator was no longer in any way allowed to submit to an experi ‘nce uncrtcally end without practical consequences) by means of simple ‘empathy withthe characters in 2 phy. The production tok the subjct- | matter andthe incidents showa and put them through a process of lina tion: the alienation that is necessary tall understanding. When something seems ‘the most obvious thing in the world? ie means that any atempt to lunderstand the world bas been given up. ‘What is ‘natral? must have the force of what is starting. This is the only way to expose the laws of cause and effect, People's activity mast simultaneously beso and be capable of being differnt. le was alla great change. TThe dramatic theatre's specator says: Yes, I have fl like that too ~ Just lke me~Ies only natural TET never change ~"The sufferings of this man appal me, because they are inesapable ~ Tha’ erat ar; i all seems the mast obvious thing inthe world 1 weep when they weep, laugh when they laugh, “The epie theate’s spectator says: I'd nover have thoughe it~ That's aot the way ~'That's extraordinary, hardly believable ~Ie's got 0 stop ~ ‘The sufferings of this man appal me, because they are unnecessary ~ ‘That’ great art; nothing obvious in it~ Tlaugh when they weep, T weep when they laugh. "The stage began tobe instructive, ‘Oi ialation, war, social sugges, the family, religion, whest, the meat marke, all became subjects for theatrical representation, Choruses en nlightened the spectator about fats unknown to him. Films showed a montage of events from all over the word. Projections added statistical ‘material. And asthe background came tothe font ofthe tage so people's activity was subjected to criticism. Right and wrong courses of action were ‘shown, People were shown who knew what they were doing and overs who id not. The theare became an afr for philosophers, but only for such philosophers as wished not just ro explain the world but also to change it So we had philosophy, and we had instruction. And where was the amuse ‘ment in all chat? Were they sending us back to schoo}, teaching us to read and write? Were we supposed to pass exams, work fr diplomas? Generally there is felt to bea very sharp distinction between Fearing. land amusing oneself. The frst may be useful, but only the second ie pleasant. So we have to defend the epic theatre against the suspicion thar itis highly disagreeable, humours, indeed strenuous afi Well all hat can be suid is thatthe contrast between Jearaing and amusing oneself is not laid down by divine rule; ts not one that as alvays ‘been and must continue 10 be ‘Undoubtedly there is much that is tedious about the kind of leaesing familia. us ftom schoo, from our profesional training, ete, But it mast ‘be remembered under what conditions and to what end that takes place. Tei really a commercial ransction. Kaowledge is just a commodity. Tis acquired in order to be resold. All those who have grown out of going ‘twschool have to do thei leaning virally in secre, for anyone who admits that he sl has something to learn devalues himself sa man whose know~ ledge is inadequate, Moreover the usefulness of Jerning is very much limited by factors outside the learner's conto. There is unemployment, for instance, against which no knowledge ean proceet one. There is the division of labour, which makes generalized knowledge unnecesary and imposible. Leaning is often among the concerns of those whom no amount ‘of concern will get any forwarder. There is not much knowledge that leads to power, br plenty of knowledge to which only power ean lead. Learning ha avery different function for diferent socal strata, There are strata who cannot imagine any improvement in conditions: they find the conditions good enough for them. Whatever happens tool they will benefit from it. And: they fee! the years begining to tell. There can't be all that ‘many years more, What i the point of learning a lot now? They have said ‘ther final word: grunt. But there are also strata ‘waiting thee turn? who are discontented with conditions, have avast interest inthe practical side of| Iearning, wane at ll cst to find out where they stand, and know tha they are lost without learning; these are the best and keenest arners. Similar p | THEATRE YOR PLEASURE OR THEATRE FoR INSTRUCTION Aiferences apply to countries and peoples. Thus the pleasure of learning ‘depends on al sort of things; but none the less there i sucha thing 38 pleasurable lesrning, cheefal and militant leaning. ‘If there were not such amusement to be had from learning the theatre's whole structure would unfit for teaching ‘Theatre remains theatre even when its instructive theatre, and in 0 far asivis good theatre twill amuse, THEATRE AND KNOWLEDGE ‘Buc what has knowledge got to do with art? We know that knowledge cas ‘be amusing, but not everything that is amusing belongs in the theatre. have often been tld, when pointing out the invaluable services that ‘modern knowledge and science, if properly applied, can perform for at nd specaly fo the theatre, that art and knowledge are two estimable but ‘wholly distinc es of human activity. This isa fearfl truism, ofcourse, nd is aswell wo agree quel that, ke most triss, itis perfectly tru. ‘Art and science work in quite diferent ways: agreed, Hut, bd as it may ‘sound, [have to admit that I cannot get along a5 an arts without the use ‘of one or two sciences. This may well arouse serious doubss as to my anstic capacities. People are used to secing poets a5 unique and slightly tannatual beings who revel with atraly godlike assurance things that other people can only recognize after much sweat and tol. It is narurally dis= tasteful to have to admit that one dacs not belong to this select band. All the sume, it must be admitted. It must atthe mime time be made clear that the scientific occupation ust confessed to are not pardonable side interest, pursued on days of aftera good weet’s work. We al know how Goethe wa terested in natural history, Schiller in history: as kind of hobby, it charitable to assume. [ have no wish promply to accuse these 10 of having needed these sciences for their poetic stvity; Ham not trying to shelter behind thems but T must say that Ido need the sciences. T have 10 Admit, however, the I look askance at all sors of people who T know ‘do not operate om the level of scientific understanding: that it sy, who 1g the birds sing, or as people imagine the birds to sng. I doa’ mean by that that I would reject a charming poem about the taste of fred fsh or the delights of a boating party just because the writer had not studied ‘astronomy or navigation, But in my view the great and complicated things ‘that goon inthe world cannot be adequately recognized by people who do ‘noc use every posible ad to understanding ‘Let us suppose that great passions or great events ave to be shown Which influence the fate of rations. The lst for power is nowadays held a‘0-be such a pasion. Given that a poet ‘fees this lst and wants to have ‘someone strive for power, how is he to show the exceedingly complicated ‘machinery within which the struggle for power nowadays takes place? If is hero ira politician, how do politics work? Ihe isa business man, how does business work? And yet there are writers who find business and politics nothing lke so passionately interesting a the individuals lost for power, low ate they to aequir the necessary knowledge? They are searcey likely to learn enough by going round and keeping thee eyes open, though even then i s more than they would get by jus rlling their eyes in an exalted frenzy. The foundation of paper like the Volkscher Beobacter o a busi- ‘ess ike Standard Cilia prety complicated afar and suc things cannot be conveyed just like that. One important field for the playwright is peychology. I is taken for granted that a pot, if sot an ordinary man, ust beable without further instruction to discover dhe moive that lua + man to commit marder; he mast be ale to give a picture of a murderer's ‘mental state from within himself. es taken fr granted that one only as tolook inside oneself in such a case; and then there's always one's imagina~ tion... There are vaious reasons why I ean no longer surrender t this fgreeable hope of geting a result quite so simply. T ean no longer find in tiyslf all those motives which the res o eentific reports show to have been observed in people, ike the average jadge when pronouncing sen- fence, I eannot without Further ado conjure up an adeguate picture of fmurdere®'s mental state. Mode psychology, from psychoanalysis to be- fuviourism, acquaints me with facts that lead me t judge the case quite ere, especially f [beat in mind the findings of sociology and do n0t ‘verlook coonomics and history. You will say: but thas geting compli- ‘ated. I have to answer that itis complicated. Even if you let yourself be ‘Convinced, and agree wth me that a lage slice of iterature is excedinely rite, you may sll ask with profound concer: won't an evening it Sch a theste be a most alarming afr? The answer to that is no. ‘Whatcrer knowledge is embodied in piece of poetic writing has to be wholly transmuted into poetry. ts utiization falls the very pleasure that the poetic element provokes. Lf it-does not at the same sme ful that tobi is alle by the seni clement, nonetheless in an age of great Uiscoveris and inventions one mas havea certain inclination o penetrate deeper into things -a desire to make the workd controllable ~if one isto to be sure of enjoying its poetry. IS-THE EPIC THEATRE SOME. KIND OF 'MOKAL INSTITUTION"? ‘According to Friedtich Schiller the theatre is supposed to be a moral ” GHEATEE FOR PLEASVRE OR THEATRE FOE INSTRUCTION insitution. In making this demand it hardly occured to Schiller that by ‘moralizing from the stage he might drive the audience ot ofthe theatre, ‘Rudiencos had no objection to moralzing i his day. It was only later that Friedrich Nietache attacked him for blowing moral trumpet. To [Nictiche any concern with morality was a depressing affair; to Schiller i seemed thoroughly enjoyable. He knew of nothing that enald give greater frmusement and satisfaction than che propagation of ideas, ‘The bourgeoisie tras setting about forming the ideas of the nation. Parting one’s house in oder, patting oneself om the back, submitting ‘one's account, is something highly agreeable, Dut describing the eolapse ff one's house, having pains inthe back, paying one’s account, i indeed a lepresing afr, and that was how Friedrich Nietche saw things a en tury later, He vas poorly disposed towards morality, and thus towards the previous Friedrich to, "The epic theatre was likewise often objected to as moraizng too moch. ‘Yee in the epic theitre moral arguments only took second place. Its aim ‘yas less to mpralize than to observe. That so say it observed, and then the {hick end of the wedge followed: the stury’s moral, OF course we cannot pretend that we stared our observations out ofa pure passion for observing | Fad without any more practical motive, only to be completely stargcred by their results, Undoubtedly there were some painful discrepancies in our ‘environmen, circumstances that were burly tolerable, and this not merely fon account of moral considerations. It is not only moral considerations that make hunger, eo and oppresion hard to bea. Similarly the object ‘of our inguires was not just to arouse moral objection to such cicum- tances (even though they could easily be felt~though aot by all the tudicnce alike; such objections were seldom for instance fel by those who profited by the circumstance in question) bu to discover means for their ‘limination. We were not in fact speaking in the name of morality but i {hat ofthe vietims, These truly ar two distinct matters, forthe iets are foften told shat they ought to be contented wit their lot, for moral reasons. Morals ofthis sore se man as existing for morality, not morality for man. [Atleast should be posible to gather from the above to what degre and jn what sense the epic theatre i amoral institution. (GaN EPIC THEATRE BE PLAYED ANYWHERE? ‘Sylinically speaking, there is nothing all that new about the epic theatre Its expository character and its emphasis on virtuosity bring it close to the fold Asatc theatre. Didactic tendencies are to be found in the medieval 8mystery plays and the classical Spanish theatre, and also in the theatre of the Jesuits “These theatrical forms corresponded to particular tends oftheir time, tn vanished with them. Similely the moder epic thea is inked with tertain trends Tt cannot by any means be practised universally. Most of the great nations foday a not disposed to use the theatre for ventilating thet problems. London, Paris, Tokyo and Rome maintain thei theatres for quite diferent purposes. Up t0 now favourable circumstances for an pie and didactic theatre have only been found in a few places and for a Short pesiod of time, In Berlin Fascism put a very definite stop to the evelopment of sucha theatre. Ts demands not only a certain technological level but 2 powerful move- men in society which i interested tose vital questions freely aired with 2 view to their solution, and can defend this interest against every contrary trend. "The epic theatre isthe breadest and most far-reaching attempt at lrge~ scale medern theatre, and it has all those immense difcutes ro overcome that always confront the vital force inthe sphere of politics, philosophy, selenee and art. [Verenigangtester oder Lehrbester?, from Serer su Theater, 957) NOTE: This say was unpublished in Breck’ lifetime and is exact date and rp are unbnown. Dr Unceld editing it for Schriften in Theatr, supated it ie was writen about 1696 Bresh's iiogaper Me Walter Nobel thinks that notes or dats ny fave existed eal. Unlike te items that follow, it bas no cideae of Brecht vats to Moscow and New York during 193, and ‘Ristemptng to thnk of ar having been prepared for one of these, for nance fa punible conboton to that conference of producers to which Pisator ved Brechin Meocow: what he called (ms letr of 37 January 193, i the Brecht Archin) collecting «few god people fora construcive dacs’ "This wast ae lace in Api and there are fagments of a ‘Brect-Pscator convertion in the Breet-Archiv (3344-08) which evden date from the, {nse Psator is seeneferring to prodtns by Okhophhoy Aiaaras and Serafmovith's ron Steen) and Meyerhold (Ls Dame aux Cami and peo fpamme of one-act plays by Tehelow), wale Brecke mentions the plans for & Tita Theatr which Ptr had bad ava up by Walter Gropivs before 1633, So lar asthe preset esay goes, however, ll ha can cea be sa is tha ome ‘bis anguete and acu words are als tobe found inthe nex pve The term here alte a ‘alienation is Btfendang as used by Hoge and Mara, and nec he Verfemdne which ech himelf mas oon coin ang make famots,Theformer als occurs ina shor nce (Schrier sm Pheer 3,99-198-7) 6 e SWEATRE YOR PLEASURE On THEATEE FOR INSTRUCTION called ‘Episches Theater, Eadremdung’, which refers to the need for any asin ane i bbe iy, Aled Dh ed digs referred to ealy fn the easy, wrote Di det Sprge det Wangan, ‘Berlin leconderplte aod oer novela wich eres ofthe ime ened 0 Joyce “and Dis Paso. He too wa interned in the theory of ep Frm. The Foicher Beohcher was the chet Nasi daly pape. 21+ The German Drama: pre-Hitler “The yes after the World War aw the German theatre in period of “great lowering. We had more great actors than a any othe ine. There Sere quite a number of prominent régsears, or directors, such as Rein hare Jesnr, Engel, and so on, who competed sharply aa interestingly sith one another: Amst al ply of world erature, fom Oedipus wo Ls Ufires sot tes Are, from the Chinese Chalk Cirle to Sender's "Mis ali coa'be payed. And they were payed. Nevertheless, for «8 young people the theatre had one serous flaw. _ Neither its highly developed stage technique nor its damturgyperited ‘sto presenton the sage the great thermesof our times. as, for example, the ‘uiding-up of marsh industry, the conic of cans, wa, the Bight gaint diese, and 30 on. These things could no be presented, at least ‘ot in an adaqate manner. Of case, stock exchange oul be, 2nd ws, “hown on the stage, or tenches dink. But they formed scthing bt lffetve background for sr of setimena ‘magane sory that ould fave ten place ar any other ime, hough inthe get prio of the theatre they would not have ben found worthy of Being shown on the sage. Te evelopment of the theave 0 that i could master the presentation of tor events and hemes, and overcome the problems of showing them, ‘vat brought abou only with grat about ‘One thing that helped solve the prablem was the ‘lectin of the mechanics of staging plays. Within afew years afer this problem of developing the moder tape had made self ele aang ws, isto, who itout doubt is one of the most important theatre men ofl ine, bean to transform is seni potent, He introdvced a number of far ‘aching innoraons ‘One f them vas his we ofthe fn and of film projecting as ante part ofthe stings. The setng was thos awakened if and began play : 7