Intro: This is the rich dad radio show, the good news and bad news about money.

ut money. Here's
Robert Kiyosaki.

Robert K: Hello. Hello, hello. It's Robert Kiyosaki, the rich dad radio show, the good news and bad
news about money. And today we have a fantastic program. The question I ask you is,
are you following to her? You know, the, her gentleman goes off the cliff like a bunch of
lemmings and how many, uh, doing what your mommy and daddy told you what to do?
Go to school, get a job, invest in a well diversified portfolio, stocks, bonds, mutual funds
and ETFs. Is that what you're doing? Are you hoping that the next person elected,
whether it's president Trump or one of the other candidates will save the economy?
Well, we have a very important show for people like you because this program is about,
you have to do the exact opposite of what everybody else is doing. Because if you keep
doing what everybody's doing, I'm afraid everybody's going to go off the cliff.

Robert K: And that cliff is not too far away right now. So we're a very special guest today. Very
credible. Individual's name is John Del Vecchio and he's an inhouse stock market guru
and he's a forensic accountant. My new favorite words, because there's a lot of fraud
going on and I have to hire some forensic accountants to Lake to look around who the,
who are the termites inside of my own company. So forensic accounts have a very
important role in any entrepreneurs business, but most importantly our guests is the
forensic accountant for Denton research. If all those do not know who Harry dent is.
Harry Denton is one of the biggest forecasting gurus of all times. So he's, he's not always
right, but he does believe he's right. So he has some interesting things to say. So every
time I listen to Harry, I, you know, I've had dinner with him a number of times.

Robert K: I love just sitting next to him. I don't have to say a thing. It's a one way conversation.
Just said, I just listened to him and that guy is so off the wall, but he expands the way I
think because if you and I do not expand our vision, our horizons or points of view, we
go off the cliff like everybody else was gonna go off the cliff. So our guest today is John
Del Vecchio is author of a brand new book called unbounded wealth dedicated to the
mom and pop investor. If your mom and pop please listen up. He leaves out 12 simple
steps of how to break free of the man and live life on your own terms. And that's what
we said, rich dad, you know, have you have you doing what mommy and daddy tells you
to do? We just go to school, get a job, you know, work hard, retire and die. So John,
welcome to the program.

John D: Thank you for having me, Robert. It's great to be with you today.

Robert K: What's my ad description? My friend Harry accurate.

John D: I love going to dinner with Harry too. Yeah, it's usually a one way conversation.
Sometimes I get it and that's why. But um, yeah, it's fun times. That's for sure. I love
hanging out with them and I get the chance.

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Robert K: Yeah, it's not boring, you know, and I hate going through the tendon. Hi. You doing less?
And why do you think you know, and all this out of the kids, you know, Harry is out
there. I mean he's got some tin foil on top of his head, tuned into the Martians or
something. I don't know what the heck he's doing, but

John D: don't filter it. It's not politically correct, that's for sure.

Robert K: No. And he says some things that's just, you know, blow my eyeballs out and going,
what if it's true? You know what I mean? And I, every time I talk to him, uh, you know, I
was just writing, I forget his last book, but I was just amazing. And it opens my mind up
and I can ask Harry questions and then I sit and listen for another two hours. So John,
give us a little bit of your background please.

John D: Well, Robert, you mentioned that I'm a forensic accountant. That's just a fancy phrase
for uh, reading financial statements and finding where management teams are trying to
stick their hand in the cookie jar.

Robert K: A lot of that going on isn't there

John D: a lot of it. Yeah. I came of age, I started my career in the late 1990s on wall street when
the internet bubble was kind of at its peak and I saw that it was going to be a multi
trillion dollar disaster. It took me about two years to figure that out. And so I went to
the dark side, which is I shorted stocks, meaning I'd bet against them. And I had cut my
teeth at a forensic accounting research firm that sold research to every major hedge
fund and mutual fund complex around the United States, probably the most successful
independent research firm in the history of wall street. And that's where I learned the
basics. And, um, I started managing a fund in 2002 to short tech stocks, rolled that into
another fund that took advantage of the financial crisis and Oh seven, Oh eight, an Indo
nine and manage the hedge fund there and then converted that into an exchange
traded fund and then went to go work with Harry in 2015, I guess it's been about five
years, but that's the basics of what I do.

John D: And the most recent book, as you mentioned, unbounded wealth is really for the mom
and pop person. Um, it's not very technically oriented. Should be able to read it in a
couple of hours. I hired an illustrator so it's got cartoons in there to make it fun and
interesting. Um, and really what I'm trying to do is get the average person to save,
invest, um, really get on a path to financial independence because the average person is
so far behind and it's a very dangerous place that we're headed to in this country. And I
don't want to see that happen to most people.

Robert K: Yeah. Is this deja VU all over again? 2008.

John D: So the difference, I've been through two of them and I'm really, you know, my career
took off because of crisis and I probably made bigger returns during crisis than any other

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 time period. So it's not necessarily a negative thing, but I'll tell you why. I think this next
one's going to be a doozy when it happens and much worse than the other two and how
it's different. In the late 1990s it was mostly driven by technology stocks. So if you
weren't invested in tech stocks, you actually did quite poorly. There were essentially a a
a bear market and non tech stocks. So when it finally crashed, they mostly crashed in
technology stocks in two thousand seventy thousand eight and that time frame I most
mostly focused on banks and companies that were more digital lenders and related to
real estate and areas like Arizona, Florida, and California, Las Vegas that were highly
inflated.

John D: The problem today is it's sort of an everything bubble because we didn't address the
issues in 2008 we just kicked the can down the road. And so what happened was almost
all asset classes have become inflated. And there may be very few places to hide when it
does turn. And so when you look at a lot of metrics of the stock market, they're at all
time, high levels, valuations, market sentiment to very extreme right now. And the
longer it goes, the more pain will be felt on the other side. And eventually we will have a
bear market. I don't know when that'll be, but it'll be pretty nasty. The good news is it
will create an opportunity to generate massive amounts of wealth, uh, as that's planning
out and then the market eventually begins to rebound.

Robert K: So let me ask you this, okay, sure. Like 2008 and I thought I'd died. I went to heaven, you
know, cause we're real estate people, I'm not in the stock market. Okay. And as the
markets crash, it was frightening obviously, but I was taking laps around the rosary
beads saying, you know, thank you Jesus, man. I tell you best real estate, I live in Arizona
and the best real estate in the world was going for peanuts. On top of that, the federal
reserve bank was dropping interest rates. So the prices were coming down of real estate
and the prices of money were coming down. My concern, this next one coming, who
knows when it's coming. Of course Harry does, but we don't. But what it hits, you know
what they say? The Fed's out of bullets. I mean our interest rates are at all time.

Robert K: Low prices at are all time highs. And for those who may not know and understand, the
term is called the everything bubbles because they dropped interest rates to subzero in
many countries. It blew everything into a bubble. So that's why real estate's highs. Toxo
high bond market's high. I don't know what else is high out there, but everything's high
and I don't. If you read nauseum talipes book, you know the antifragile and the black
Swan [inaudible] this next one that comes down, how are we gonna recover? See, when
we're out of bullets mean how if they're already had zero, what are they going to do?
An interest rates.

John D: It's a very dangerous situation. So imagine you are in a coma for 10 years and you'd just
woke up and someone told you that the stock market's up 450% from the crisis, Lowe's
unemployment's at three and a half percent tax rates had been cut both at a corporate
and a personal income level. And then what would you expect interest rates to be? A
reasonable person might say five or 6% and somewhere in that range maybe. And um,

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 you're right, obviously they're negative and a lot of countries and they're very low here
in the United States. What's interesting is the expectations are that they'll continue to
be negative or very low for decades. And um, that is a fear that there are no bullets left
to address the situation when the time comes to essentially make money cheaper.

Robert K: Yeah. So John, so let me ask you this question. Look, you know, one of the tenants of
richdad porta, which came out, you know, 1997 with savers are losers. And the reason is
because how can you, why would you save money when the government queuing it?
Quantitative, easing it, printing it and interest rates kept dropping. So that's why I
became a gold bug in 72 and I've done pretty good on that. I don't save cash, I saved
gold and silver. But how can people save money? You know that the person who's
following mommy and daddy's advice of get a job, work hard and save, save, save, save,
save. When neg, when the banks are going to charge you money to save,

John D: right? So I saved money to the extent that looking to put it to work in opportunities to
generate capital gains over a period of time.

Robert K: Everybody, I want you to listen to that. See that's, there are people of my generation, I
remember when we had, we could get 15% interest, right? You know, and people were
taking out CD certificates of deposit and they'd put $1 million in there and collect 150 K
a year and you are home, you know, playing golf. Yup. But the average, this is the
throwing a bunch of do exactly opposite of what everyone else is doing. You have $1
million today, you put it in the bank, they're going to charge you money to keep it there.
So what does a saver do?

John D: Right? So that principle that you're referring to, I talk about my book on bounded wealth
is called the George Castanza principle. So if you've ever watched the show, Seinfeld
George is a character on there who gets it to pick a little, just about every episode, and
there's one episode where he decides to do the exact opposite of everything that he's
ever, you know, inclined to do in his life. And so it goes to launch. He orders a different
kind of lunch. It meets this beautiful woman because of that, it tells her that he's
unemployed and lives with his parents and she falls in love with him. Then he goes, tells
George Steinbrenner that he ruined the Yankees. Steinbrenner hires him, uh, you know,
to work for the Yankees. And my point is that if you're doing what everybody else does,
you're kind of get what everyone else gets, which is mediocre performance in the
markets and you're not going to be in the top 1% if you start to do the opposite, you
have a good chance. So the lowest allocation ever to stocks in the history of the United
States was March of 2009. That was the time to get aggressively bullish because
everyone else was pitching about broker and their stock returns. So my point about
saving it is keeping some fresh powder and opportunities to make huge returns when
everyone else is, you know, capitulating and essentially jumping out the window or
classroom at risks

Robert K: in our County on cash to be an asset.

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John D: No, I, I uh,

Robert K: so acquire assets.

John D: I own a significant amount of gold. Myself. A gold head obviously had a huge run from
about Oh two to 2011. You know, commodities work in very big cycles. I know that
Harry's very bearish on that, but you know, gold is traded relative to something else. So
if the dollar were to collapse 50% and gold were to go down 20% well gold actually
appreciated in value relative to the dollar. Gold has done phenomenally well relative to
the Euro, to the British pound. I think the Euro is kind of a joke is a construct. So gold has
done tremendously well.

Robert K: It's also done extremely well to theS and, P, you know, because in 2000 goals down to
like 200 bucks an ounce. Again, I thought I died and went to Evan and I just backed up.
But everybody was getting out of gold. This is the point, and this is why I asked you to
know. You understand Todd loves a book about antifragile. The bigger the market, the
more fragile it is and the lower the market, the more antifragile it is. At that point it was
that song I can see clearly now. That's why I love crashes is because then you can see
through the dust. Does that make sense to you? And that's what you hold cash for. But I
don't hold cash to save.

John D: No, me neither. So in the remnants of a, of a crisis, there will be plenty of opportunities
to buy assets at bargain levels. And that's because most people do the wrong thing at
the wrong time. So they buy a $700,000 house in 2006 when they make 50 grand a year
or, and you know, the bank doesn't even ask them to verify their income. So as soon as I
heard about no doc loans, I was licking my chops. Now it's about four or five years for
this to play out. But how I knew that the crisis was coming was I attract something called
mortgage equity withdrawals, which was the amount of money that people were pulling
out of the equity in their home because the home was appreciating and then buying
things like Cadillac Escalades and blowing it on.

Robert K: Oh, what a great idea that is, man. Hey, uh, John, we're going to take a break by
everybody wants you to listen to what John is saying. His topic is to do exactly the
opposite of what everyone else is doing. And I remember those days when people were
pulling out the equity in the home, in their homes. I don't know what tech they were
doing. I smoke or something, but they're the people that went broke and then they got
angry at the rich when they're the stupid ones because they're doing as they are told,
we come back. We've taught him more about John Delvecchio about what you can do
that's opposite of what the herd is doing. Weber right back.

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Robert K: welcome back, Robert Kiyosaki, the rich dad radio show, the good news and bad news
about money. You can listen to the rich dad radio program anytime, anywhere on iTunes
or Android and YouTube and you can and please leave a review wherever you listen
cause we all know what we're saying makes any sense to you, but you don't care about
it. To hear our podcast again. No know we archive all of our podcasts for one big reason
is because we're an education company. We make no recommendations. Even though I
say I buy gold, not saying you should buy gold. So think for yourself. But we archive it
because repetition is how we learn. If you listen to this program one more time, your
brain cells may find new life and some breath of fresh air in there. So go to listen to this
podcast again with your fans, family and business associates@richdadradio.com and ask
them, are you doing the things your mommy and daddy taught you to do?

Robert K: And do you have a social medic? So that's what we're here for is just to challenge the
way you think. That's why it's a good news and bad news about money. So I guess today
is John Del Vecchio is an inhouse stock market girl, a forensic accountant for dent
research. We recently had to hire forensic accountants and attorneys to investigate my
own company here cause we're going to find out what really went on. So it's, it's going
on all over. You know, I just finished a book, John called, uh, who stole my pension and
if now it was with a forensic attorney and he investigates pensions, he decided it was
much more lucrative to be a whistleblower than to be an attorney. That's it. All right.

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John D: Okay.

Robert K: He was just awarded I think somewhere between 30 and $40 million last year because
wall street has been looting the pensions of all the public servants, but wall street, you
know, while she was doing the same thing to the 401k. So that's my plug in my book is
called, who's told my pension. And if you're a baby boomer, if a friend or a family
member who is about to retire, who, who stole my pension is a big one to read because
you gotta get prepared for what's going on. Because the subject of today's talk is I doing
is exactly what your mommy and daddy told you to do. Are you counting on that
retirement? Are you counting on that pension? Are you saving money? I investing for
the longterm and the well-diversified portfolio, the stock market. Do you have a job? I
send your kids back to school that's doing the same old thing.

Robert K: That's why I wrote rich dad, poor dad was my rich dad. Never did any of those things.
And the reason I can think different, and not that one is right or wrong, but I can see
both sides of a three sided coin, heads, tails and the edge. So I guess it again is John Del
Vecchio forensic accountant and he's a very important job of looking who's stealing the
money. So John, you know, if everybody at right now is sitting there, they have a job,
you know, they're saving money and they're investing for the long term in a well
diversified portfolio, stocks, bonds, mutual funds and ETFs. What would you say to
them?

John D: Uh, well I would probably hold their hand and pray with them and hope that the trends
were gonna continue. Um, because the stock market's at very stretched levels valuation
wise, all time highs. Yeah. First price to sale basis. Cyclical [inaudible] very scary. Profit
margins have maxed out. Static company's revenues have stagnated. Really the big
drivers have been stocked by backs, which are actually expected to be down 5% in 2020
so that could be a win.

Robert K: Let me explain that to people. I was having dinner. I live at a fairly exclusive area in
South Carolina and as having Jenner and the boy the talk around the office air by loves
Donald, you know, because the stock market is up and so what do you think? I said,
well, now is the stock market up, but the only reason is up because the bond market is
up on she get the relationship. Many people had no idea what was talking about. It's
corporate credit that's going to blow this market apart. These guys are very smart, rich
people, but they made their money as good, hardworking accountants, attorneys and
investors and all this stuff. But they had no idea what I was talking about with corporate
credit and the bond market is the everything bubble. Their properties a high, they're
high, they're drinking like fish and their highest counts right now. What do you want to
say to him, John?

John D: Well, you're right. So without naming names of specific companies, so kind of don't
want to get into that and bad mouth anybody specifically. But what's kind of happening
in the market as a whole is that you have companies that are taking on billions of dollars

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 in debt to buy back stock or protect their dividend in the face of maxed out profit
margins and stagnating revenue. So that's what's called financial engineering. It's,
they're just essentially making a dollar of earnings by moving some accounts around and
waving a magic wand. And that is not how stock markets, um, perform well going into
the future. That's usually sort of the end of a cycle when that,

Robert K: well, John, let me ask you a question. You know, with this corporate credit is basically
the stock buy backs. Many of the biggest blue chip companies on now, they went from
triple a bond rating to triple B. Next up is junk. So let me ask you this. If interest rates go
up and those triple B bonds go to junk and the whole national debt goes to ballooned,
what's mom and dad going to do?

John D: Yeah, they're in big trouble. So what I've, what I've written about in my book
unbounded bounded wealth is I've given strategies for people to adjust accordingly. So
for example, um, I, I based one strategy on what I think are two great philosophers. One
is Mike Tyson because he said everyone has a plan until you get punched in the face.

Robert K: I love that. I love that quote. I think it's on, it's on our board down here in our offices.
I've been punched in the face so many times. That's why I had to hire forensic
accountants and attorneys and the FBI.

John D: Well, um, they're good friends or counselor to look, we all get punched in the face and
how, how we deal with that and do we have a plan? And so some of that is investing,
um, realizing that we don't know what the future holds. But then I also, I'm a big
advocate also following trends and making sure that you're positioned right on asset
classes that are, are moving up and being aware of risks. So as Newton said, an object in
motion stays in motion until acted upon by another force. And so, um, my own model
that I described in that book on bounded wealth is that if, if, but you know, what is
hitting the fan, then you're significantly scaled back and stocks. Um, if everything's, you
know, off to the races and it's doing well and companies are reporting good quality
earnings, then yeah, you're more heavily invested. But today, well over 90% of
companies are using adjusted earnings as opposed to maybe around 70 to 75% a decade
ago. And

Robert K: what does that mean? Adjusted earnings?

John D: It means that so

Robert K: S no, I'm clear.

John D: So like Warren buffet says EBITDA, which is earnings before interest, taxes,
depreciation, depreciation, amortization. He calls that earnings before the bad stuff.
Right.

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Robert K: How can you, how can you have earnings before EBIDTA I don't understand that at all.
You know?

John D: Well it's just, there's a lot of line items between revenue and earnings that management
can use to derive whatever net income they want. Lots of line items and generally
accepted accounting principles are gray. It's just a, you could drive a bus through it. It's
so because a co a company is being aggressive does not mean that they're quote
unquote fraudulent. They're just being aggressive. Fraudulent to me implies some sort
of intent to deceive. There's a, they're using the rules within their, within their best
ability to do so to derive whatever earnings it is that they need to report. Cause let's be
honest, if you're not hitting your quarterly numbers and pleasing wall street, then your
stock's going to get annihilated. Especially in an environment like this where we're at
highs.

Robert K: What you're saying John, it's legal to lie to yourself that you're doing well.

John D: Yeah. It's legal little lie to wall street investors too because how does the CFO get paid?
Primarily through stock options and stock grants and things of that sort.

Robert K: It's just like, it's like, it's like the accountant is the boss asks him is a plus one plus two
and the guy says what do you want it to be?

John D: Yeah, that's exactly right. The behavior that that happens and it happens more
prevalent later on in the cycle, which were clearly later than the cycle. So unfortunately
mom and pop are the ones that are caught holding the bag. So when Enron blows up,
they're the ones that you know are the last ones to find.

Robert K: Yeah. Everybody else is out. The guys who made the money are gone long gone. They're
onto the next project.

John D: Correct. Because the company has a theoretical, infinite lifespan. Right? But a CEO
might only be in there for five, six, seven, 10 years, CFO, same thing. So there, their
modus operandi is to make as much money as fast as possible. And the way to do that is
to keep the stock price, you know, inflate it.

Robert K: So, you know, the most important thing, I think the reason we have you on the show is I
think a person has to question what mommy and daddy told them or their financial
planner told them. That's, that's really what it is. To re-examined that and get your
book, you know, unbounded wealth. Because if you don't question what you're saying,
you're gonna probably be into what you're thinking.

John D: Well, the first thing you could do if you, if you instantly want to double your retirement,
would be to fire your financial advisor because just, you know, focus. The problem is
most people don't know what they're invested in. And I use an example in the book,

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 which is a Maryland bond fund. The problem is that 50% of it was invested in Puerto
Rican bonds and Puerto Rico has a disaster that's been going on for years. Billions of
dollars even before them. The hurricane came.

Robert K: But everybody's moving to Puerto Rico now because it's a tax free Haven.

John D: Yeah. Enjoy. I wish you well. I would rather pay a few percent more in taxes and live
somewhere. Uh, there was a little bit better off financially and if I want nice weather, I
could just go on a vacation somewhere on the beach for a few days and then come back
home.

Robert K: But do you know my friend Peter Schiff?

John D: I know who he is. I do know him personally.

Robert K: He said, you know, he and I, he's always telling me, you should, you should move to
Puerto Rico because it's tax free. Is it Peter? I don't pay taxes anyway. Why would I
move to Puerto Rico?

John D: Well, Harry's down there. Um,

Robert K: I know, that's why I didn't want to say anything you say you're trying to, if you're a real
estate guy, you don't have to pay taxes legally, but that doesn't account, that's the
biggest loophole there is left appreciation.

John D: I'll spare the trip down to Puerto Rico, but um, yeah, listen, you know, the average
person just going to get caught holding the bag. And what I'm trying to do is position
them to be independent of external factors, external forces. And so if you don't know
what you're invested in, I mean that's, that's scary. And so, um, unfortunately a lot of
people get sucked into investments that they're not even keen on, on what it does.

Robert K: Well, that's what's happening now is everybody is chasing the new as well, I don't guess
to call them unicorns like Uber and we works, those companies are bankrupt and
they're investing in them.

John D: So a good warning sign that we're at the top of the market is the number of billion
dollar. And when you're referring to a unicorn, it's $1 billion valuation company. The
number of billion dollar companies that are going public that lose money is enormous
right now. And um,

Robert K: well isn't that this, isn't that only because interest rates are so low, they can't get any
what they call returns or gains or green shoots, what they call it, growth. [inaudible]

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John D: low interest rates promotes greater or excessive risk taking. There's no question about
that. We work never came to the market. If it did, I would have been shorting that as
soon as I possibly could. A lay up gift from God all time opportunity to me. I mean it was
just, and you want to talk about, I mean they had things in there like community-based
EBITDA and one thing you learn as a forensic account is when you've never seen it
before. Um, you know, really buckle down and try to figure out what's going on there.
So when they start naming new financial metrics in 2000, it was things like eyeballs. You
basically, it was the number of people that were [inaudible]

Robert K: Oh God, I just went nuts. Around 2000 we hired this marketing person and she says,
yeah, we had 16 million views today. I'm going, I may sales, huh, well eyeballs, but no
sales.

John D: I profits, you know, so community-based EBITDA, which is what we work was, was
utilizing is just a fictitious number. I mean they just talk about making stuff up. And so
yeah, that's, that's a sign of a late cycle is when billion dollar, you know, huge money
losers are going public and people clamor for them, although a lot of them have sank
pretty hard after they've gone public. There's been a few exceptions, but, but most of
them have have gotten hit pretty hard.

Robert K: So John, the masses, what last question? Sure. If things go up, something comes down
or something, what happens? People chase the up, right? Oh, it's, it's, it's hot. We're
chasing Uber right now. Then it comes down and then they're still chasing that stupid
stock. I missed service, but they're losing billions.

John D: They will fix it all the way down. That's the problem. People get sucked into concepts
and glossy growth stories. And look, the, the laws of economics will never be repealed.
So a company's going to have to generate some sort of stream of cash flows over a
period of time, discounted to the present to have any valuation. You can't just continue
to lose gobs and gobs of money because even though interest rates are low, eventually
the market is just going to turn its back on the company with hat in hand to try it.

Robert K: You know what that's like? That's like the neighbor who moves in there by the big house
and they got the two SUV is on a sports car and six, three kids in private school. They
look good as well. Oh, he's making 600,000 a year ago. He's still broke.

John D: That's the Joneses don't keep up with the Joneses. I read about that in my book and
unfortunately the average shone family has $60,000 saved. So if Mr. Jones loses his job
or he passes away or something, that family's hosed. They got no ability to maintain
their lifestyle, certainly can't retire. And so they're just a mouse on a treadmill. And you
know, it's a, a very bad ending. It's a horror movie and horror movies usually on pretty
badly. And that's the situation most Americans are in, unfortunately.

Robert K: John, how big is the horror movie going to be when it comes down?

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John D: Uh, as I said earlier, it's going to be a doozy. So, uh, the good thing is there'll be plenty of
opportunity to make tons of money in, in the ashes of, of the next meltdown, and you
just gotta be prepared. So you've got to have some dry powder. You've gotta be paying
attention to what other people are talking about. And as you said, well, my book is
about, it's just doing the opposite of what everybody else is doing and you'll be a lot
better off.

Robert K: You know, John, you sound like mother Teresa to me for some reason. You had, you had
Harry, you know, I think all of the ordain you guys, but that's why I listened to Harry, you
know, because otherwise I got sucked in with the crowd. Right? Is that, is that the whole
message today?

John D: That's the message, you know, be like George Stan's and do the opposite of what you
think and you're going to be a lot better off than than your neighbor or your friend. The
average person for sure. No question about it.

Robert K: Hey John, thank you. If I say hello to Harry for me to tell him I can't wait to have another
sermon on the buffet table, I'll let them know. Thank you so much for adding me. Okay,
thank you. Good luck to you. Bye. Bye.

Speaker 6: [inaudible] [inaudible]

Robert K: am I? Thank I'm John Del Vecchio who the book is unbounded wealth and he's a friend
of the infamous Harry dent and Harry dent will be a guest on our program in a few
weeks and Harry really is the guru of forecasting and that is what he is known for. He's
not always right, but he's always controversial. And the reason I like people who are
controversial is because the topic of today's talk or rich dad radio show was do exactly
the opposite of what everyone else does. And as I'm speaking today, which is in January,
2020 let's talk market is an all time high and people are excited. That's the worst time to
be excited as the time to be looking for the fire exit. But people are jumping in and say,
all right, you know, Trump's going to get reelected and all of this stuff. And for
somebody like me who looks at the good news and the bad news, when things are really
good, it's gonna get bad.

Robert K: So once again, I thank John Del Vecchio and then uh, it's an in house forensic account
that somebody who looks for the lies, cheat and steals how people rip you off
constantly. I have another book that just came out is smoking along the ways. It's called,
who stole my pension with Ted Sydell. He's also an a, he's an attorney, but he SCC
attorney, but he decided he was best become a whistle blower and blow the whistle on
the sec and wall street. The book is shocking. So ladies and gentlemen, we all know
that's crux and perverts and weirdos and everywhere in the world, including church. I'm
not just speaking of the Catholics and Protestants are just as bad as a Catholics. So all
the Buddhists, you know, cause I know, I mean my sister is a Buddhist, not much, none.

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 She's not a monk, she's a nun. But she'd still say what's goes on with those Buddha's
monks wearing those orange saffron robes and they're not innocent.

Robert K: They're so ladies and gentlemen, we're all human beings. We have a good side, a bad
side, a dark side and a weird side. So that's why I'm very happy to have John Delvecchio
on so we can talk about how do you prepare for what we're doing. But most importantly
don't do what mommy and daddy did. That's the most important thing. So Sarah, Sarah
is our social media guru here is our, what'd you think of what John had to say? It
reminded me, I think you, you tell the story like you are at the cash register at a sprouts
or something and the re and she's like, Oh here's my card. I'm becoming a real estate
agent. Cause everybody was getting into real estate at the time. And it made me think
like when everybody's jumping in, jump out, time to jump out. And I think that was your
point you were making when you're talking about Uber or you know, you know, some of
these companies where they're just Getty billion dollar valuations.

Robert K: We, you know, that would be our time then to say we're not, we're not touching it.
Correct. Correct. But that's like, that's, you know, think of, visualize mice running
towards the sewer. Yup. Yup. Or the lemmings going over the cliff. And unfortunately,
my prediction is, is I'm not as dire. I'm more dire than a John Delvecchio, but not as dire
as Harry dent. But anyway, I think we might be heading for a depression and idea that
all would just jump in when the crash hits was this jump back in? It's going to bounce
back up. I don't think that's going to happen. I think when I hit a whole stretch, maybe
10, 20 years of a depression. The question is how long did that last depression last last
of 25 years. Yeah. That's how long it lasted.

Sara A: We interview, um, uh, Doug Casey. He said, we're still in the depression. We never really
came out of it. Yeah. Yeah. So, um, Andy, you always show the chart, the Dow chart,
right. In the little blips and each time we've come to a crisis, I mean this one is, is going
to be significant compared,

Robert K: take us in the history of the world. Right. And this time the whole world's involved. Yup.
I mean if you're living in Bangladesh, you're going to be affected. I mean, not as badly.
Of course you've had nothing to lose. You got nothing done. But if you're rich, you got a
lot to lose. And so in a Sarah and I know the coal company, a rich shed here had been,
we are part of our cultures. We value study and we studied together and we're studying
fragile and anti-fragile. So the thing here is this, is that, you know that in school, so they
were teaching kids to be as snowflakes, right? Fragile. Don't trigger may. What else did
they say?

Sara A: Oh, I need a safe space to express my feelings. Yes. They're just easily, you know,
everything is offensive. You can't say anything without somebody getting offended.

Robert K: Yeah. I mean, I, I just can't believe what in the freedom of speech, you know? So
anyway, the reason was studying nauseum talipes book, um, antifragile is because there

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 is no definition for those. No opposite of fragile. Right? You're there, you're antifragile
or you're fragile. Right? And when you follow the herd today, when you, when things
are at all time high, he calls it the everything, bubble stocks, real estate, bonds, artwork,
vacation homes, all time highs. We're more fragile. We're not stronger. When they
bailed out the banks, they made the banks more fragile. It didn't make them stronger.
So what's your understanding of antifragile? We have these discussions all the time and
we take, we take the time to study, right?

Sara A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, we just had a meeting a couple of days ago about it. Uh, and
then the group, the team then meet met yesterday and we talked a little bit about it.
The concept is I, the concept is simple, right? It's basically, I'm not strong, right? It's,
you're fragile, right? So how we relate it to the team is the stronger, this is where it gets
confusing if we're, we're each fragile individually, but we become anti-fragile when we
come together sometimes. Right. And so I think you'd mentioned that in the show is the
economy is fragile, right?

Robert K: Cuts is good. Right. And then if it gets bad is going to get antifragile. Right. So it's
opposite of the way we think. So rich dad today is a reason why the higher F, you know,
a forensic accountant, forensic attorney, and the FBI to take a look is our company has
got more fragile. It didn't get stronger. Right. You know, and the other thing about
antifragile is, was when you're really small, you actually get stronger. Right. And so do
you feel the company is getting stronger? Oh, definitely. Yeah. That's really good. Yeah.
You know, and we're talking, you know, one of the other things that we're, we're really
redefining is our culture and our context. Yep. Um, just to become strong, even
stronger. Right? Because we had a very fragile culture at rich dad here. Yup. If I said
anything, I, you know, I'm going to Sue you.

Robert K: Right? The award lawsuit was tossed around us company like it was, you know,
McDonald's or something. Everybody was living such fear, you know that I'm going to
hire my attorney, I'm going to Sue you. That just makes a company more fragile. And I
think that it goes to the part we, when we talk about emotional intelligence, right?
Everybody, it's when you lack emotional intelligence, you're living in fear, you're
constant state of fear. And that's where we were. And when you always say, when
emotions go up, intelligence goes down. And I think that you see that over the last five
years or 10 years, that we were headed in the wrong direction. Well, we're had a culture
that was making us more fragile, not anti-fragile. So the differences, this is that with a
human being, a living organism, if you put it under pressure, it gets stronger. But if you
make it, you know what, what makes you stronger? Sitting at the bar, lifting a Budweiser
or sitting in a gym, lifting some bar bills, you know, one makes you more fragile, right?
And what makes you more anti-fragile chicken links with my beer by the way.

Robert K: And he talks about that and uh, in the video that we watched, uh, as a group was that
things that are organic are anti-fragile where things that are manufactured are fragile,
like a washing machine versus a cap or something, whatever. Don't, don't watch the

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 same video. It was a tough one. Everybody came away says, what the heck was that
video? Talk about bones like the human bone is meant to break cause it only comes
back stronger. Yeah. That was a good visual for me to kind of capture that, that lesson.
Right? So a lot of people hang in job security and they're working for a bad company.
Right? Does that make sense to you? So they get a more fragile with a company like GE
is or general electric, it's not all going to junk junk bonds, junk, junk, corporate debt.
People are hanging in there getting more fragile.

Robert K: They're not getting better. Yeah. And John mentioned that today they are, they get into
Uber market crashes. They hang on the whole way down. But worst, worst of all is
people jump in as it's going up. What the guys who already made the money are out.
Yup. Yup. They're long gone in Singapore is called kiosk. So yeah, so means I don't want
to miss out. We say FOMO here. Fear of missing out. FOMO. That's good. Good, good.
So that's why this whole program today is about doing exactly the opposite of
everybody does. But the reason I'm talking about fragile versus antifragile, I like to ask,
ask you this question is the, are the, is the organization you work for or the friends you
hang out with, are they fragile or antifragile? Like when the, when the whole thing
comes down on them, will they get stronger or while they just give up and cry and beg
for us, you know, Sandra is to, you know, give him some money and I wonder what are
these guys asking for? Now these millennials are snowflakes. Oh, they want free
education, free healthcare, free, free, free, free, free, free, manic, yours. Oh my God.

Sara A: Then you have Andrew Yang, who's not only going to make everything free, he's going
to give you $1,000.

Robert K: Is that making us fragile or antifragile? That's really, you know, that's, it's, it's only a
question you have in your head. Yeah. And if your idiot brother-in-law is investing in
Uber, are you getting more fragile? And so we're, we at rich dad, we're working our
culture right now cause we never defined it, right. So my culture has really mean little to
extreme as a Marine Corps culture is a little too extreme here. But anyway, the Marine
Corps culture was a very, very anti-fragile culture. If somebody called you a name, you
say, thank you, I'm going to get you later. Well the other way, the other guy nauseum,
Taleb talks about us as you throw an elephant and a mouse out the window, which was
going to survive and the muscle survive. So one of my lessons of what will I'm talking
about with the rich dad company here is that being smaller when this crash comes
might be better. Would you agree with that? Yup. Yup. Anything final words on that?

Sara A: No, I think this is this antifragile fragile concept. Um, it's interesting. It is, you know, a
little bit tough to wrap your mind around, but it, but it, but if you boil it down, it's
simple, right? Right. Stay small, you're antifragile the bigger you are, you can be more
fragile and you can apply that concept to so many things. Right? Um, so it's, it's a great
lesson and uh, recommend everybody looking into it.

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Robert K: So, you know, some ask this question, I say the same coin. I always think about this.
What I would rather do is sit at a bar, drink beer, and eat chicken wings or go to the
gym. What makes me more fragile and fat. The other one makes me antifragile but it's
not pleasant. And so the w I'll go again. I want to thank John Del Vecchio and thank
Sarah for our contribution. And so the topic is do exactly opposite of what everyone else
is doing when it comes to investing. The majority of the time, the crowd is wrong. And
right now the crowd is at the highest. I think the Dow hit 30. I don't fall a stock market
hit 30,000

Sara A: Oh yeah, yes. But with this Corona virus now happening, we're going to see major
dropped, I believe. And I'm not even I'm, and that's just for my amateur eyes. Right,
right.

Robert K: But the point here is more fragile because it's high where people think, Oh, I'm good
stock market and I know my friend Donald is doing it. So he gets reelected, but it's
actually making the U S more. It's really interesting. That's what's a hard to get her all
antifragile and fragile. I think that's where you get the amateur investors too. They're
thinking 30,000 I'm getting in right now. It's going to go up. Just can't, you know, and
they're not thinking what goes up going to come down. And the other saying, as a
professional investors of the bull goes up the stairs, which musicals very slowly, you
know, and steps and steps and steps. But when it goes, the bear goes out the window.
It's like the elephant of the mouse who's going to survive. You know, mouse will survive.
So right now do exactly opposite. You may want to check out who your friends are.

Robert K: Are they fragile? Oh, antifragile are they stupid? Are they smart? Are they proactive and
learning? Are they, you know, are they, are they getting stronger? Are they working out
what they're getting fatter? I really had, that's kind of the question right now. So I want
to thank again, John Del Vecchio. Thanks Sarah. Is to do exactly opposite of what
everyone else is doing. He's the John tell vacuous auto book of unbelted wealth. It's a
book dedicated to mom and pop investor. He is out 12 simple steps, how to break free
of the man and live life on your own terms. And the man right now is big, fat and stupid
and ready to start coming down, but they've always sucked all the cash out. Again,
thank helpless. And the rich dad radio show, and again, a hairy tent will be my friend
Harry tent will be on soon. Thank you very much.

Speaker 6: [inaudible].

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