Carolyn: 00:25 And I know how demanding the audiences are.

Um, so it's,
yeah, it's weird. I can't even barely see narrative. I mean, I do
see some images, you know, especially things that are very
beautiful, but it's not, it's totally different way of like seeing a
movie or images. It's really nothing,

Bernardo: 00:43 So you can never get into it, like you can never lose yourself.

Carolyn: 00:47 And even when I tried to watch movies from the booth, it was,
um, you know, I, I realized talking to people afterwards who saw
them in the theater, I'm not actually seeing the movie the way
you're supposed to be seing, which is kind of what I... I like
about being a projectionist is because I've really grown to
appreciate seeing movies in movie theaters, like how they're
meant to be seen because, you know, these days everyone's
like, oh, watch it on DVD or whatever. And it's like, no, there's
really nothing like that particular experience.

Carolyn: 01:14 I mean, a projectionist is like so much removed from that. It's
just like, wow, that is, that is really a thing. Um, but I mean the
one thing that is difficult like with images on screen is when I'm
trying to do change overs because you know, you're looking for
like the cigarette burn or the cues for the motor and the
changeover and if there's a lot of action happening at that
moment, like if it's like a fight scene, you're just like, oh my God,
because you're, I can't help it but, like, kind of follow the action
and you're just like "please do not like make me miss this
changeover" because there's too much going on on screen. But
um, yeah, I mean it's, I mean it does kind of suck if there's like a
really violent scene happening when there's a changeover. So
it's like you can't look away and you're just like, "I'm just going
to like not see what's happening over there".

Carolyn: 01:57 But yeah, in general I don't really see a narrative or anything. It's
like a collection of colors and like focus and more like technical
things. These days.

Bernardo: 02:08 People in our class were really intrigued by this when I proposed
it because someone was like, "oh, I know very little about
projection outside of Fight Club", so I'd like to know more.

Carolyn: 02:17 Right? Thank God for Fight Club.

Bernardo: 02:20 Yeah. I guess they know a little bit because of it, but not the
good stuff though. But it's something that people want to learn
more about, which to me was... made me... wanted to... Made
 me want to make this even more. Bringing knowledge to the
people, so there's an educational purpose to this as well I guess.

Carolyn: 02:37 Well, it's like a job that you're not supposed to know that we
exist, you know? Yeah. I mean it's like if, you know, the
projectionist is there, it's like I'm doing something wrong. And
then now it's basically, there are no projectionists. It's like it is,
it's like a dead job, you know. So it's weird. They're probably like
13, like maybe like 30 fulltime jobs left in the city, if that. Um, so
it's, uh, it's.... yeah, it's a weird, it's a weird, like nonexistent job.

Bernardo: 04:19 Um. Okay. So the first question is for you to tell us what you do
and where you do it in anything else that might be important in
relation to that.

Carolyn: 04:27 Okay. Do I need to say my name? Okay. I can just speak. So, I'm
a projectionist, a film projectionist and an EV tech, but I work at
Film Forum and the Museum of the Moving Image. What else?

Bernardo: 04:39 Anything else you think is important about that aspect of it?

Carolyn: 04:46 I don't know. I might need some more leads.

Bernardo: 04:50 Can you tell us what a projectionist does, like start to finish, and
how it works in terms of timing and stuff?

Carolyn: 04:56 Right. Well, I mean my, my jobs are different. One is in a
Museum, one's like in a proper theater, Film Forum where we
are now. And basically, I mean the job is pretty classical, like
what has always been showing movies. Uh, I run four theaters
here. Um, you know, making sure everything hits the screen
properly. These, you know, these days, all film, all 35 millimeter,
16 millimeter film that we show is archival. Um, so it's like an,
like in the period of time that I've been a projectionist, which is
15 years, film has basically gone from being like a disposable
medium, like, like almost garbage, throw it away, throw it on
the floor, you know, multiplexes, it's just like film everywhere.
Like, cut it up, but now it's sort of like become a precious object.
So, a lot of the job now is doing these sort of in depth
inspections of prints, you know, want to prep them for
screening because a lot of them are old and you want to make
sure that the, you know, the presentation will, will go well and
then it's also just to cover all bases, you know, make sure we
know what damage is already there.

Carolyn: 06:10 Um, and uh, yeah, so that's a big component of the job. Um,
you know, it's, and then it's an interesting job now because, you
 know, one big part of it is like all these new projectors and like
digital cinema and like, you know, learning all these new ways
of showing digital movies. And then this pretty archaic, you
know, over 100 years old projectors. Um, so it's, it's, yeah, it's
weird that you have both this very old fashioned component of
the job and then you know, this other elements of it. You're like
learning new stuff every day. Um, you know, basically it's like I
spend my entire day alone in a room with no windows.
Surrounded by really old objects and um, yeah, I don't know. I
guess it's a weird job for that reason. Um, what else? I don't
know. I mean like day to day. It's like I turn breakers on. And
then...

Bernardo: 07:13 How does the process of getting the film happen nowadays?
How does that work?

Carolyn: 07:19 Um, I mean most of the prints come from archives, or you
know, distributors like Warner Brothers or Fox. Um, but it's all
archival. You can't platter or anything. You can't build reels
together, like you used to be able to. Um, so there's a print
shipper you know, at, at all these jobs who will get things here
on time and then we look at them. But it's, yeah, I mean
sometimes you to sign waivers, um, we, you know, most of the
prints come from the same, like 10 places. Um, I mean I'm really
lucky that I work at these jobs, the museum and here and you
know, the other places like Anthology, it was my first job.
Anthology Film Archives was my first job in New York and you
know, you just, you're, it's amazing. You get to - the print I'm
looking at right now is from the George Eastman House, which
is... Their prints are always like in amazing shape, but it's, I mean
this stuff is so rare now, so it's a very lucky job for that reason.
Um, and you know, not everybody, you have to be... your
institution has to be like archivally approved I guess in order to
show these archival prints. So like you can't just, you know. It's a
real privilege to be able to handle them.

Bernardo: 08:33 Next question is, what is it about film projection that has
everyone, not everyone, but a lot of people going wild. What do
you think is special about film production

Carolyn: 08:45 Really, do people go wild about it?

Bernardo: 08:47 A lot of people, like specifically like, niches do. Right, wouldn't
you say?

Carolyn: 08:51 I guess, yeah, I mean it's cool. I mean I think it's cool, but that's
something I've learned just from doing the job. Um, because
 before I wouldn't, I didn't really know. You know, I guess, I
mean there's nostalgia. I guess there's a certain kind of like
fetishizing of material, Like tactile objects, um, you know, and
now that we're in the realm of the digital where everything's
like, not, not an object. Where can you see like an actual print in
the United States? Like in New York? Lots of places, but you
know, in other towns, you know, maybe there's a handful that
has like one theater that will, that is able to show film - if that,
you know. So it's like I couldn't do this job anywhere else really.
I would have to live in New York. And even Paris, which like the
last time I went to Paris, which was many years ago, maybe like
seven years ago, I'd go out and watch like four movies a day,
like three or four movies a day and it was all film and I was like,
"this is amazing".

Carolyn: 09:57 So I always thought Paris was like the other city that was still
like New York, but then I ran into a friend at a wedding a few
weeks ago who's a projectionist in Paris and he's like, "no film",
like the cinematheque and that's it. Like everything else is
digital. And it was like I was so depressed, but then also so
proud that, you know, New York still has this and it's, you know,
like you said it's growing and it's, you know, it's amazing and it's
all because of the audiences. Because I feel like around eight
years ago when things were really changing over to digital, I
remember there being one year that I hardly handled any
prints, at the museum anyway. I'm sure they still showed tons
here. I wasn't here then. And I was really worried that "oh great,
like there, will there just be no film", but really the New York
audiences demanded it, you know, they're like, they demanded
of the institutions and it made the programmers realize that it
was really important. So it's, I kind of feel like thanks to
cinephiles, like we're still able to show and see film and it is very
magical, you know, it is different, it is different than seeing
digital I think.

Bernardo: 11:06 Can you zoom in a little bit for the next one? Yeah. It was
interesting what you were saying about the film projection in
Paris, because I think in Brazil in 2013, there were still theaters
that showed film. And I remember, I think maybe the last thing I
was Gone Girl, because I just remember the grain and
everything. I was like, okay, because it's a digitally shot film,
which is even more interesting. That was the last print that I
saw, but I remember there being like a sign in the theater. It
said '"from day X on we will only be showing digital", which was
interesting because I think it probably ended in America a little
sooner than that and we're, since we are not America, we're
always a little bit behind on technology. So it was, there was
some resistance maybe at first, but I remember once it caught
 on it was just like the standard and every theater did it and then
it was like digital everything. And you had 3D by that point. So a
lot of theaters had converted the projectors and everything and
had the new system. I could feel the change, which is... I wasn't
even aware of it that much, but I remember then being aware
of it just because seeing the signs and everything is like, oh, it's
the end of an era or whatever.

Carolyn: 12:15 Yeah. I mean it was crazy here, you know, I'm in the union that
I'm in, the Motion Picture Operators Union and when that
happened here, which wasn't that much earlier, maybe like
2000, I don't know, 11 or 12. It's like all these guys just like lost
their jobs, which was kind of crazy.

Bernardo: 12:34 There are... I'm sorry for not getting into the question, but there
are, um, there used to be a lot of theaters in really small cities,
like my mom comes from a smaller city and there were theaters
that regularly did film prints until 2010 or maybe something like
that. Now there are no theaters whatsoever. Even with the
digital age, they just all went away. It's interesting that that was
the thing that was happening. They were getting prints and
showing them.

Carolyn: 12:58 That's how it was for a 100 years. It's a very sad story.

Bernardo: 13:05 How did your relationship to film begin?

Carolyn: 13:09 I mean, it was pretty random, like I didn't, I didn't grow up
watching movies at all. In a big family, we didn't go to the
movies and we weren't, you know, it wasn't at all a cultural
family. Um, so I was living in Boston, I think, um, you know, after
high school I moved to the east coast and I had some friends
who worked at this theater called the Brattle Theater. And um,
and I've been, you know, by that time, you know, I was an artist
and so I'd sort of gotten into French New Wave films and you
know, Woody Allen, you know. So I had, I was interested. But I
got this job at the Brattle Theater, working as an usher and um,
you know, in box office and all that. Um, and so I worked there
for about six years and Cambridge and Boston is a pretty, it's a
pretty good film city also.

Carolyn: 13:56 Harvard Film Archive is there, which is amazing. The Brattle is
amazing. Um, so yeah, I just was exposed to so much film and
um, then when I went to Grad School at Cornell, they had a
theater there and I always was interested in projecting, but I'm
not, I never, I'm not super like mechanical. It's not like my
facility. I'm not great at fixing things or like machines. But um,
 so I never wanted to ask. Also, it's a pain to train people. So I
was always so interested, but it wasn't until I went to Grad
school and they had a theater there. Um, and like the head tech
was like, do you want to learn how to project? And I was like,
are you serious? Yes. Like, I can't think of anything more fun. Of
course I do, like, that's like the coolest thing in the world.

Carolyn: 14:40 And um, luckily then, you know, you're able to learn through
trial and error because film was still disposable. I, you know, I
mean he like trained me three times and I was like "I have no
idea what I'm here". And like probably destroyed a couple of
prints but it was just different. You cannot, you cannot do that
now. It does not fly. Um, but yeah, so sort of a mix for me. Um,
yeah, I came to film because I love it. I'm not a filmmaker, you
know, I'm a painter and poet. But um, yeah, I don't know. And
then, and then, and then coming to New York where it's
working at places like Anthology and just, you know, you can
see so much everything here. Um, and I just, I love film people. I
love people who love movies and then of course projecting just
changes your perspective on like all of all of that.

Carolyn: 15:32 But yeah, no, it was a kind of weird and convoluted path to film
for me.

Bernardo: 15:36 How did you, what was the path to getting to New York City and
now working in the places that you do?

Carolyn: 15:42 I mean, yeah, basically, you know, I worked, I worked as a

projectionist at my Grad School for um, like at a university
cinema for like a year or so. Um, and then moving to New York
because you know, art, like, I mean I was just going to move
here anyway. Um, and I needed a job and so my boyfriend at
the time was like, "well, maybe you should see if like Anthology
Film Archives needs a projectionist because the projection there
is usually pretty bad. So maybe they'll hire you", which I have to
say... The projection there is not bad. Actually now I think it's
like top of the line and any problems that any of these theaters
have is not the projectionist, it's usually like the equipment and
like lack of money and resources. But anyway. Well, I did go to
Anthology and talk to the director there and he hired me on the
spot, which was kind of amazing and that was just like learning
your chops at Anthology is, you know, that's how I know, like
basically everything because you just show so much random shit
there. All this wacky stuff. A lot of the prints you get. I
remember opening a can, the print was like wet. I'm like, "what
in the hell happened to this film?" Like can you even project it?
You know, and there's just like weird, you know, all these sort of
like interactive, like avant garde everything out of focus things
 you have to play tape players with and, or you know, tapes.
Anything bizarre that you can possibly show is like thrown at
you there.

Carolyn: 17:06 And also you're getting a lot of prints that are in terrible shape
so you have to... and it's an archive. So even though I'm not an
archivist, I learned, you know, the very high standards for how
they repair prints and handle them and inspect them. So, um, it,
I mean, that's the only reason I have any job now is because I
got that job at Anthology and they're so thorough, thorough
about teaching, you know, teaching the projectionists like how
to handle archival prints. Um, yeah. So that was, that was like a
stroke of good luck, you know, for better or worse because now,
you know, I don't know if I could ever do anything else not
being a projectionist because that's such a rare profession, but,
um, but no, I was really fortunate to work there and if they're
still like my family, you know, that place is amazing.

Bernardo: 17:50 Can we go wider now?

Carolyn: 18:01 I probably have to start a movie in like five minutes, just Fyi. I'll
let you, you'll hear them. They'll call up on the phone.

Bernardo: 18:08 What do you think the role of the projection is nowadays, or has
become?

Carolyn: 18:15 I mean, I really don't know if it's different than what it always
has been. I mean basically it's, um, it's to put on a perfect
presentation, you know, that's the main goal, you know, even
though it's like I inspect prints and repair them, all that is in the
service of having like the most seamless presentation possible.
So, um, you know, it's, you know, obviously you would never
like back in the day like projectionists who worked in
multiplexes to serve that end and having like a perfect
presentation. Like even if something terrifying was happening in
the booth upstairs they'd just be like, "as long as we can, like
keep it going on screen", you know, film over the floor and I'm
like you can't do that anymore. Because you also need to
protect, you know, the, you know, these materials that you're
working with because they're now irreplaceable. Um, but yeah,
I mean it's about putting on a good show. It's like turning down
the lights at the right moment, opening the curtain, making sure
it's focused or like, you know, as much as you can.

Carolyn: 19:24 Like sometimes you get these problematic prints. Warped and
like roaming focus, but it's like you're on top of it and you're,
you're showing the film the best way it can possibly be shown.
 Projectionist is a sort of, it's a very mechanical job. Like you're
just part of the machine. You have no personality. You're just at
the service of like, you know, you're basically the same as the
projector, making sure everything is working correctly.

Bernardo: 20:09 Can you enjoy film as a viewer now or what are you looking for
when you're watching something be projected? What's the,
what's that like?

Carolyn: 20:34 Like from the booth? Do you mean or in the theater?

Carolyn: 20:36 Or as an actual ticket paying person or whatever it is that you

call that.

Carolyn: 20:41 Yeah, yeah. I mean like if I watch a movie in the theater, which I
just work so much so I hardly ever do. But I do love to see
movies in the theater, I always see film because you can in New
York. So if I'm going to spend any time in the actual theater
watching the movie, it has to be film. Um, but yeah, no I don't,
you know, um, if there's some kind of problem while I watch a
movie, I'm usually just like, I'm so glad I'm not the person in the
booth, you know? And it, it really, it really ticks me off when
people, in the audience or like, they clap sarcastically if there's a
problem. I'm like "you try to do this, like you have no idea." It's
not like we're just asleep in the booth, you know, it's just like
shut up.

Carolyn: 21:18 Um, but yeah, no, I mean it's very easy for me to like get into
the um, sometimes I count reels, changeovers in reels if I'm like
tired and want to know when it's going to be over. But basically
I'm, yeah, I'm able to get really sucked into a movie in the
theater. But yeah, from the booth like I was saying I can't, I can't
watch the movie at all. It's just, it's just the screen, it's just
technical stuff. Um, you know, it's, it's like not even worth trying
and the sound out of the monitors is so terrible. It's not all how
to really experience a movie. And I really, you know, obviously
every time you experience it it's in a different way whether you
watch on your computer or in a theater or in a class. Um, but
there is really nothing like seeing it exactly how it's supposed to
be shown in that context of the theater and like the anonymity
of being in the theater with a bunch of other people, but also
being with people, it's like you know, strangers. It's, I don't
know, I find it to be a very special kind of experience. Um, so
yeah. But yeah, from the booth it's like, it's not even a movie is
just, it's just a, a um, you know, it's just a collection of
technical... Technical things and aspects for me.
Bernardo: 22:33 So I think I want to ask you if you can explain, like how the reels
work and how film works. Like very basically for people who just
think you sit down and it happens. It's magic in a sense. It is
definitely magical, like you say. Yeah. How would you explain
how a reel works, all that stuff? As basically as you can.

Carolyn: 23:07 Sure. Um, yeah, like a 35 millimeter feature length movie is
usually about about five or six reels. Right? So every reel is
approximately 20 minutes. Um, and uh, there are two
projectors, right? For Reel to Reel Exhibition, um, film
projection. So basically there are cues, there's a countdown at
the head of every, of every reel and you thread it up. Onto
eight. It's basically, you know, if everything's timed with the
projector correctly, that's how long it will take for like the first
image to get in the gate, which is projected into the theater.
And then there are two sets of cues at the end of every reel. So
the first cue is the motor cue. So that's when the first real is you
see the motor cue, that's when you start the motor on the other
projector. And in the second queue is the changeover cues. So
then you, you know, either press the button or the foot pedal to
change over to the other projector.

Carolyn: 24:37 Sometimes the job seems a little ridiculous. Today's kind of the
ideal situation because it's all digital, so um, and, but then there
are tons of prints here so I still get to work with film but I don't
actually have to like be jumping off every 20 minutes to go
change the reel, which is cool. But it's also like, you know,
sometimes it's very nice to have a day like this or just like a full
digital. Press play.

Bernardo: 25:01 That's actually my next question, how do you feel towards
digital projection?

Carolyn: 25:06 Yeah, I mean I hate it. Obviously I'm, well I don't know if that's
obvious, but yeah, no, I hate it. I mean it's, it's a mixed bag,
obviously because you're just like, you know, I hate the forced
obsolescence and how it was just to make more money, you
know, you know, more bang for the buck for the distribution
companies and you know, Hollywood in general. Um, and it's
boring to show. So I refuse to work film festivals anymore
because... I did Sundance for like almost 10 years and a bunch
of other festivals and like, this year I just realized my jobs in
New York are so much more interesting because you know, it's
not just sitting in a room pressing buttons. Um, I actually, I'm
one of those lucky people, projectionists who get to show film
or touch film like everyday that I'm working. Um, yeah, I, I just, I
find it, I find it very dead. Like the technology is interesting, but
it's uh, yeah, I mean it's, I feel like there is no reason digital is
 not the same as film. I find them to be two totally different
mediums. So they really should be able to coexist, you know?
Um, instead of just making digital movies that are like look, like
film, you know.

Carolyn: 26:22 There's so much more you can do with digital. It doesn't really
make sense. It's not like the natural progression in my opinion.
They're totally different. So, so yeah, I have a little animosity
towards the digital. I mean, in that tries to ape actual film,
obviously. I love like the digital medium for what it is. There's so
many, there's so much possibility, but it's like, why are they
trying to make it look like film I don't understand. And the
projecting part of it is so boring, but I mean at the same time it
is. Yeah, it is. It's very chill. It's very easy to just like push
buttons, but then you're like, what am I doing with my life?
Seriously?

Bernardo: 27:02 Yeah. You have this weird thing where like, there's something
like Carol which was shot in the film or like even Phantom
Thread and most of the projection is digital, right? So most of
the people who see it, which is a pretty large audience all things
considered will not be, will be seeing film go to digital. Right. It's
like it's being switched over several times. Which is kind of a
shame. They do show them like at Metrograph maybe, but
not... right?

Carolyn: 27:25 Basically. Yeah. I mean it's, I don't know it all, everything now
since everything goes through a digital intermediate anyway.
Um, you know, I feel like prints, since I look at so many prints,
film prints, it's like you can really tell like anything from like the
late eighties and nineties, prints so hideous and like anything
new. And I think it is because they go through this, this digital
intermediary so they're able to like mess with the colors and
they have this weird, they're just, it's so hard because, you
know, I photograph a lot of the prints that I, uh, that I inspect
because I just find them so beautiful and if I'm inspecting a print
from the nineties, like the Coen brothers movies. I'm like, these
are hideous. I mean they're, I love the Coen brothers and like
they are kind of epic and beautiful on screen. But like on the
rewind bench, I'm just like, these are so ugly. It's just a totally
different texture, you know? Um, even though they were on
film and they were shot on film, like just going through that, like
the digital... it just changes the way everything looks.

Bernardo: 28:26 My next question is the thing that you were mentioning about
how do you feel about, if you do your job correctly, nobody
notices it. How do you feel about that aspect of your work?
Carolyn: 28:34 That's great. I'm very antisocial. Yeah. No, I'm always
embarrassed when somebody is like "and to Carolyn up in the
booth" and I'm like, "no, no". And obviously it's way more
embarrassing if you do make a mistake because then you're
like, God damn it. Damn it. I probably have like five friends in
the audience. Um, and, but no, I mean it is. Sometimes it's kind
of sweet. But um, yeah, ultimately I'm just like, I don't want
anyone to know that I'm here.

Bernardo: 30:00 I think people have that even with like, whenever a movie goes
silent for too long they're always like, "wait a minute". So even
that, like they're, they're not used to it and are just like, "is
there something wrong or is it supposed to? This is very rare,
but they'll do like, light going into the film with the effect of
light leaks or something like that. Oh, is something wrong with
the film? If it is film. They'll go like, oh, is there something
wrong with the print or what's going on? And so I think that's
pretty amusing.

Carolyn: 30:31 I mean it's, yeah. And like when there are problems with this
job, it's like I don't really get... I just find it all kind of amusing.

Bernardo: 30:40 What are some of the problems that can arise when you're
projecting?

Carolyn: 30:45 Oh God, I don't know. So many. So many problems. What are
the main ones? I don't know. I mean, luckily prints are in much
better condition now that they're only lent to very few
institutions and theaters that are all like archive approved. Um,
but like back in the day it's like you have to worry about it, just
all kinds of problems. Films breaking, like wrong leaders on
wrong reels. So it's like all of a sudden you're out of order
because it was like labeled incorrectly and you know. Things out
of frame but, you know, I mean there's still a lot of problems.
These machines are old, you know, and it's, it's not like one
movie that we're showing for like months, you know, like they,
like in the multiplexes it's, you're showing this stuff one day,
maybe one screening.

Carolyn: 31:33 It's archival, so you can't like, do a practice run. There's also no
time. So yeah, theres just a bunch. I don't know, but I mean the
problems I've had this week or you know, one of the projectors,
the museum, the sound head, the optical reader, which reads
the sound, um, it's a light, a light reader. And it got out of
alignment which caused all kinds of sound problems, you know,
and it's just trying to tweak that on the fly. You can't really do it
on your own. So it's like two projectionists and like you're in
 theater with like a bunch of people watching the movie and you
know, we're on the radio like go, you know that that's the
wrong way. You know, it's just like terrible. And then just the
sound problems, like every other reel, real pain in the neck, you
know, or I had a print where it did have focal drift, maybe it was
like a little warped or something.

Carolyn: 32:19 So you're just like, you're like, it's perfectly in focus and you like
go sit down and you look up and it's totally out of focus. You're
like, damn it. So, you know, or there can be a film break. That
doesn't happen that much anymore. But it's, it's happened, you
know? Um, these projectors here at Film Forum are electronic
and it's all archival. But we do cue them with metal cues
because we're running four theaters at a time here. So they're
programmed with like light cues and everything, so if there's
some kind of, you know, some kind of problem, like a different, I
don't know, I just know sometimes the program will fail and like
the lights and the music will come on in the middle of the
movie, you know, and so it's just a bunch of like know
everyone's like "good work" and you're like, okay, it's not my
fault, I fixed it really quickly. So I mean there's just like tons of
problems that can happen here, you know. Um, uh, that's why
we do such in depth print inspections because the more
preparation you can do, it really cuts down on any kind of
potential issues.

Bernardo: 33:26 What do you think... this is a heavy question. It's not
controversial, don't worry. What do you think is the future of
film projection. At least In America?

Carolyn: 33:37 No. Yeah, I really don't know. I mean it's, I guess it's like, yeah,
the theater, the future of movie theaters, like the way that you
have them in here in New York. But um, yeah, I don't know. I'm
not sure about that. You mean film projection specifically? Not
just any kind of projection.

Bernardo: 33:55 Yeah, I mean I guess we're seeing the death of the movie
theater as a potential, which I don't know. I don't really buy into
that. But um, so you, you said that were getting more and more
theaters every time and that the number's growing at least
since you've been here. So what do you think, what do you
think it's going in sometime?

Carolyn: 34:20 Yeah, you know, I really don't know because it really seemed
like film was going to go away like eight years ago and now it's,
you know, it's back and you can get prints, you know, people
will lend them, they're in great shape. People come out and see
 them. Um, you know, I sort of feel like, and it's sort of the same,
you know, people make parallels between, I'm like, you know, a
still photography, you've seen like a resurgence in that kind of
film. And even something like vinyl records, a huge resurgence. I
think people are realizing that it's not like a qualitative
difference, it's not like one is better than the other, but that
they're different and it's not even pure nostalgia. So in a way I
feel like, um, I don't think it will go away completely.

Carolyn: 35:11 You know, people are producing film again, like actual film
stock. Um, you know, so I have faith. I mean it's, it's interesting.
It's a lot harder to learn the kind of skills that I have. Not like,
not like it's super hard, but it is a specialized skill. And what's
even harder, I guess the real risk is that they don't make film
projectors anymore, you know. Kinoton was the last company
that made film projectors. They're German and they finally went
out of business like a few years ago. So it's like getting parts is
impossible, you know, you have to source parts, like whenever
they do those 70 millimeter series, um, you know, like for the
Hateful Eight or something.

Bernardo: 40:40 So let's talk about now your social media presence and all that
because that's how I, that's how I came across your work and
everything. And I don't even know how it happened. It's just in
the ether, right? It happens one day. But how did social media
become part of your work?

Carolyn: 41:22 Yeah, I don't really know how it started. I mean, I'm not sort of,
you know, I'm not really a social media person, like I don't do
Facebook or any of that kind of Twitter, whatever. But um,
yeah, I guess, uh, at some point, you know... I spend a lot of
time working as a projectionist, um, and uh, like literally 60
hours a week because I have a full time job and then I work at
Film Forum kind of just for fun. Um, so it's, it's a very solitary
work. Um, so I guess it's just the mix of spending in these hours
and hours alone with this, you know, these very beautiful
objects that like nobody gets to see on so many levels because
it's, you never get to see them because, you know, you maybe
don't really make the connection between, like what you're
watching the theater and like the actual film object. Um, and
then prints are just so rare now. Um, and it, I, I don't know, just
the more, and I'm also... being an artist, I'm just so fascinated by
just how beautiful, it's really a different thing to look at it on the
bench, on the rewind bench, like over the light table than it is to
see it on screen.

Carolyn: 42:31 Like, you see things like the images that are the most beautiful
on screen don't always translate into like the separate frames.
 And then sometimes, you know, I'll be looking at a print and I'll
be like, these images are so freaking gorgeous. And then when I
project the film it's, yeah, they're just like two totally different.
Um, you know, visual, visual experiences. But yeah, at some
point I was like, well, these are so interesting. They're so
beautiful. And I started posting them on the Instagram and
there's a real niche audience and I've made a lot of friends that
way. But um, yeah, it's, it's a weird secret like obsolete. Um, uh,
you know, to me, I just find it so, so special and so rare. It's like
one part of the job that I actually like a lot. Being able to, um, to
handle this stuff. I mean, there's something very interesting too
about film being basically gone and it being like this plastic
medium and then kind of posting on the Instagram, which is
purely digital, you know, on your phone.

Carolyn: 43:34 Um, I take the pictures with my iPhone, you know, and you
know, you post the picture and it just becomes this log. So it's
weird taking this object, making it ephemeral. But it's also at the
same time, it's also a pretty fascinating log of what shows in
New York City on film, which in itself is really amazing because if
you look through my instagram is like "really, all this stuff is
playing in New York right now." That's only two theaters
basically. Um, so yeah, it's uh, basically I just do it because I'm
like, so um, you know, so lonely, but it's. Yeah, it is. I spent a lot
of time alone, so it's really nice to be able to share like what I do
with people who have no idea and um, it's so interesting to me
that people are into it. A niche audience. It's very niche, very
passionate niche audience. Um, the pictures are beautiful I
think.

Bernardo: 44:38 And do you think it has helped to promote your work, get
people interested in those kinds of things?

Carolyn: 44:42 So sort of that was also sort of the beginning of it, you know, it
was sort of, it's almost like film activism or something. Um,
because I do want people to know that stuff is showing on film.
It's like a good excuse to like get out to the theaters, you know, I
don't, I don't do it to the services of the places I work, you
know, it's all my own. I'm not going to post something for film,
an image that I'm not into. Um, but, but yeah, it makes me so
happy if somebody sees, you know, one of the frames that I
post and they're like, "oh my gosh, I am going to go see that
movie. I had no idea it was playing. That print looks beautiful"
or like "I've never heard of that movie but I'm going to go see
it". Um, yeah, I, you know, and I do find it, I do find it really
important that film continues to exist in the world. So if this,
you know, not that this could really help, but yeah, I think it
does, a little bit, actually in New York.
Bernardo: 45:36 So what, what do you think in terms of your job, what is your
favorite part or what is this thing that you like most about what
you do?

Carolyn: 46:15 Definitely handling prints because it's... I just, I really like to do
it. It's maybe because it's just, they're beautiful objects and
they're so rare. It's almost like being able to handle things in a
museum in paintings that nobody can see or touch. Um, I mean
there is something very amazing about taking the object and
being able to project it on the screen. But the, job itself, it's, and
there's something very satisfying about that too, especially
when I know there's an appreciative audience but, but you
know, that part of the job and sort of like basically I only like it
for the reason I get to handle so many prints and like not in like
an archivist way. For me it's like kind of purely pleasurable to be
able to inspect these things. Like I'm not looking for a certain
kind of a, you know, it's not archival work. Um, and I'm lucky to
have these jobs that give me the luxury of having the time to
look at, look at them. So yeah. And so that's by far the best part.
Um, you know, I also like that I don't have to work in an office
with any, anybody else. I'm my own boss.

Carolyn: 47:30 Um, you know, it's cool being in a, in a labor union because
that's also basically obsolete. Like it's the, I like the trappings of
being a projectionist, you know, I like that it's such a 20th
century kind of job. Um, so yeah, all that makes it, makes it
interesting. But like the thing that I actually really enjoy is
looking at prints. It's always lame when I get to work I'm like,
there's nothing to look at. What are we going to do?

Bernardo: 48:06 So what do you do when you're not doing this? So what, what's
your, what's your life like outside of this booth?

Carolyn: 48:15 God. Oh God, I don't know. I work a lot. Um, yeah. I, you know, I
love, I love New York, I go out a lot, um, you know, I like to go to
a bunch of rock shows. I like to go to movies, films, um, I like to
go to a bunch of old school New York restaurants. That's sort of
my thing. I guess, I just sort of want to make sure that these
places stay in business. I'm like, most of the restaurants I go to
are, you know, from like the sixties or older. The eighties is old
enough, but um, but yeah, I, you know, I found, I found lately
that because I spend so much time in like a dark, windowless
room by myself, it's when I get out of work, I don't really want
to go to see movies and I don't really want to go home. I sort of
want to be around people. So like I'll go out to dinner or go to a
rock show or something like that. I mean, New York has no
shortage of, um, of interesting things to do. I don't really, I don't
 really paint anymore. I just work. I just work. You mentioned
painting, you mentioned poetry, right?

Bernardo: 49:52 I think maybe I just want to ask the question again of what you
do and where you do it and know that kind of stuff with some of
the insights that we've gathered in here. If you can tie it into
some stuff that you mentioned, which was the very broad
question again, but now towards the end.

Carolyn: 50:09 Oh boy. Okay. I don't know. I'm not, I don't know. It's hard to
summarize. I'm like, what do you mean? What do you do it? I
mean I, I work as a projectionist at museums and archives in
New York. Showing and inspecting 35 millimeter prints, um, and
also, you know, a bunch of digital formats. I guess I've been
working as a projectionist for about 13 years. Um, and I've
worked at almost every art house theater in New York City
probably.

Bernardo: 51:10 That's great. Yeah, we got a lot of information. So guys, do you
have anything else to... you had a question?

Behnam: 51:16 Just like... ever have anything similar... Because like there's a
similar plight that's been happening to like live action, like, like
on film as opposed to digital as well with like cell animation.
Have you ever done a projection for animated films?

Carolyn: 51:33 Well, I mean, I have projected animated films. Yeah, no, I mean
it's really fun to every once in a while to show, you know, we'll
get like Fleischer brothers films or something like that and
they're just so freaking beautiful. Betty Boop, or you know, old
Disney movies.

Carolyn: 52:18 Yeah, I don't know. Yeah, it's a good parallel actually. Did that
answer the question?

Behnam: 52:42 I don't know, just like, because there's this, there's a similar
plight with like cell to digital, like just like using like tablets and
stuff. There's like a, there's a certain tactile loss, like tactile feel
lost from one mode of animation to another.

Carolyn: 52:56 Yeah. Yeah. No, I mean I think that's. Yeah, I think it's the same
thing. Yeah, it's just something about like, even writing, it's like
how often do you even handwrite anything anymore. I feel like
touching film is sort of like writing a letter by hand. Yeah. Or
like, yeah or yeah, even a typewriter.