#21 Business Journalism in the Digital Age with Alice Bonasio

The ways we consume and create media and content continue to evolve at a rapid pace. The
Demystifying Media seminar series at the University of Oregon School of Journalism and
Communication explores the impact of these changes across the communications landscape
and finds new ways to navigate forward.

Each term, we will bring several experts—media practitioners, academics, and researchers—
_working on the cutting edge of these global changes to campus to discuss the impact of the
21st-century media revolution with students, faculty, and staff. Find our podcasts, interviews,
and talk recordings on our website.

Damian Radcliffe (00:04):

Hello and welcome to the first Demystifying Media podcast for 2019. Today we're going to be
talking Lego, Madonna, immersive media and much, much more. I'm Damian Radcliffe, the
Carolina's chambers professor of journalism at the University of Oregon. And my guest today is,
Alice Bonasio, the founder and editor in chief of Tech Trends. Alice is the first speaker for winter
2019 in the demystifying media series, a program which brings to the University of Oregon
inspiring thinkers from across academia, and the creative industries. Alice, welcome to the
podcast.

Alice Bonasio (00:32):

Hello, it's lovely to be here. Thanks Damian.

Damian Radcliffe (00:34):

So let's kick off by talking about your website Tech Trends. For people who are not familiar with
the site, what's it all about, and where did the idea come from?

Alice Bonasio (00:44):

Okay, well the elevator pitch version of it, is that it's a business news and opinion website, and
it really covers the entire spectrum of the digital technology industries. So it comes down to
anything and everything that I'm interested in, but also just anything that has an impact in
people's lives. That's the stories I look for, is technology with a purpose. And it's also a platform
for my consultancy work. So is a strategic consultancy. And that's where the idea for it really
came about, because I come from a mixed background. I am a journalist, I freelance for several
external publications as well. Some of that content then is cross posted to Tech Trends too. But
at the same time, I have a PR communications background.

Alice Bonasio (01:43):

So we leverage our expertise and our contacts, to advise clients on their own communication
strategy, digital adoption strategy, and also around immersive technologies, which is an area
that I've developed expertise in as well. And now we also brought in lots of external
contributors, so the site is expanding and sort of getting a life of its own, which is really nice.
We've just celebrated our third birthday as such in January. So three years on, it's very different
from when I first started it, and we're really happy.

Damian Radcliffe (02:20):

And I are you finding there are particular topics and themes, that really resonate with an
audience, or is it hard to tell?

Alice Bonasio (02:27):

It's sometimes surprising. Some of it has gone according to plan, as such. Because I very early
on I developed this interest in immersive technologies, and I've personally covered it. And a lot
of the content in Tech Trends is about virtual, augmented, mixed reality, really the cutting edge
of that. So that's been very popular, and I think that a large part of our audience really follow us
for that type of content. So at the same time that things like immersive technologies have
proved really popular. I actually found some of the contents that I was, I don't know, sometimes
even nervous about introducing things, like some of our guest posts or product reviews for
example, info graphics. They proved really popular with the audience as well.

Alice Bonasio (03:24):

So we've kind of mixed it up a lot more. And some of our contributors they have a very different
sort of voice and tone, to what I would produce, and that's great as well. So it's moved away
from being solely a showcase of my own work to also just being more of a platform, which I'm
really happy about. Sort of two, three years old now.

Damian Radcliffe (03:48):

And you mentioned immersive media as kind of a sort of overarching theme for a lot of the
work there. How would you explain and define what immersive media is for people who are
perhaps not familiar with it?

Alice Bonasio (03:59):

Yes, it's really the spectrum of technologies, that really integrate the physical, the real world as
such and the digital world of information. And some of it is mediated by screens, and some of it
you experienced through things like VR headsets or other headsets like the Microsoft hollow
lens, which then project holograms, but also let you see the world around you. So some people
really distinguished between the forms, so that augmented reality is largely used to refer to
screen-based experiences at the moments. So things that you need a tablet or phone screen to
see that content. Whereas virtual reality tends to be enclosed experiences, where you need a
VR headset for that. And the mixed reality more the holographic stuff, that has been Microsoft
hollow lens, and now magic leap is also in that space. So that covers the entire spectrum. But I
don't really focus on the hardware that much, because it is evolving so fast and I think the
tendency will be towards some sort of amalgamation of those.

Alice Bonasio (05:27):

So that's why I like to refer to the spectrum, because some experiences in the future will really,
I think go between being fully enclosed and you have a graphics generated environment. To the
real world environment around you, augmented by graphics. It really should depend on the
purpose of that content, rather than being dictated by the hardware that you're using. So we're
moving fast towards a future, where information and people will interact in really intuitive and
fluid ways. And the hardware will increasingly disappear and become invisible, so that you can
walk around and... In even in your normal pair of glasses, that technology will be embedded, so
that you can use your Google maps in a voice activated way and see the directions on the
corner of your eye, rather than having to take your phone out of your pocket. That's the kind of
future we're moving towards I think.

Damian Radcliffe (06:31):

So that's something we can look forward to at some point down the line. What are some of the
things you have seen over the last couple of years, that have really caught your eye in terms of
experiences and engagement, and your engaging content?

Alice Bonasio (06:43):

Well, there is really such a range, and that's what got me into this in the first place. Was the fact
that, because this is actually a paradigm shift rather than one gadget, one thing, then I was able
to really investigate so many different use cases. Go into every industry and every application.
I've been really fascinated about how it can be used in education and training, because that is
fundamentally something that's kind of been the missing link in a lot of areas. So for example,
medicine, that's a huge example there. And it's no wonder that so many companies are moving
into that space, developing products around, for example, training surgeons. Because training a
surgeon is such an expensive and complex area. You need, they often work on cadavers. That's
exceedingly expensive and is a compromise. I mean a dead body does not behave the same way
as the living one, but obviously you don't want to let somebody inexperienced sort of mess
around with a living patient either.

Alice Bonasio (07:59):

So how do you bridge that gap, because surgeons need to not only sort of have a realistic look
about how things work in a procedure, but there's also feel. And now there's such amazing
work happening with not only immersive environments, where they really see this beating
heart. And they will be able to practice that procedure safely hundreds of times, before they
even go near a patient. So that that practice is what makes for a good surgeon. And then at the
same time there's haptics, so that they are actually getting the sensitive feedback on resistance
and tissue. That you are cutting through bone or sinew or whatever, and that will feel different.
And that's done in, companies are working with surgeons to just calibrate and get that right.
We're already so advanced in such areas. And I was kind of blown away as I was demoing
things. And again, I probably killed the virtual patient that I was operating on.

Damian Radcliffe (09:07):

Better than a real one, so.

Alice Bonasio (09:07):

Exactly. But yeah, it's really amazing just how realistic it really is. So that area sort of, which is
called kind of cognitive embodiment. And then when you really have the physical action, that
accompanies your learning, you retain things a lot better as well. And your brain is not not
spending that energy in sort of converting words or 2D drawings into visualizing those
procedures as well. So again, you're using all of that power to actually understand what you're
doing. And that's a real shift in learning. So learning is a big area. And then things like, I think
social and the way that people will interact with each other in these environments, when they
have a real sense of presence.

Alice Bonasio (10:06):

I think once we get there, then things it could have a real impact, even environmental for
example, cutting down on the need for business travel, and all of that. If you can really
effectively get that feeling of meeting people outside. You don't get that at the moment in a
Skype meetings, obviously it serves a purpose, but is not that. But I've now been in a few sort of
VR conferences, and even with compromises and cartoony avatars, you're getting to that sense
of presence. So I think that, that's going to be another big one. And that's just two off the top of
my head, but it literally is every area.

Damian Radcliffe (10:50):

Well, and I think what's interesting about those examples, is that they're kind of more business
oriented, the kind of the training focus. Whereas I would argue that a lot of the kind of popular
conception of these things, is around kind of entertainment medium and entertainment
activities. And they're not the examples you've just highlighted.

Alice Bonasio (11:09):

Yes. And I've had lots of fun in VR, but yes funnily enough, the things that I've had most fun
with were some of these practical demos. Those things, one of my favorites was actually a
Microsoft hollow lens demo where they set it up so that I could fix a light switch. And that was
really fun, also because I'm useless at DIY. So it was just a real sense of accomplishment in
being able to do something that you had no idea how to do. But then somebody is instructing
you step-by-step, not only telling you, but showing you. And your hands are free, so you can do
things as those things are projected in front of your vision. That's incredibly powerful, and really
fun. And I've heard that from other people as well, that when they get into VR, they just really
enjoy being in the environment and doing mundane things often.

Alice Bonasio (12:05):

So that's a surprising thing about the medium. But I've tried a lot of games and I think that,
that's I know the perception, because you see the gadget and then you think, well that is what
it is. It's a gimmick. It's something that you try on for fun. And I've had those experiences and
some of them are good, but I think that, that is selling it short for what it is. Because it is about
so much more. And often those experiences are not, they're not designed specifically for VR.
And then that can also be a problem. I think that some of the video games that are expected to
work really well in the medium, they were just a bit overwhelming. The example I had when I
first tried the PlayStation VR, and I tried resident evil, I couldn't play for more than about 10 15
minutes.

Alice Bonasio (13:02):

It was just, it didn't allow for that longterm exposure, which is essential for enjoying that title,
because it's not a casual game. So I think that there's still just a disconnect between the content
and the medium there, and it will probably get a lot better, because there's just so many
amazing game makers, that we'll probably move into the VR space. And I think that, that's
what's needed. Those people need to just tackle the design issues around comfort, and really
get their heads around how to make satisfying VR games, that do something that wouldn't be
possible without VR. And then at that stage, then you probably get that push as well. But I don't
think that consumer adoption as such, people buying it for entertainment is the essential thing
for the technology at the moment, because you do have a sustainable business model around
the other use cases. And that's what I think guarantees the longevity of this, rather then we
didn't sell that many units at Christmas, therefore it's a dud. It's not going to be like 3D TV in
that sense.

Damian Radcliffe (14:23):

So we've seen a lot of excitement from our students about this kind of vision that you have
painted, and they've got really interested and very engaged in some of the examples that you
have shared with them over the last couple of days. What are the implications of this future
world or present world, that you've just described for content creators for brands, what sort of
things should we be thinking about, that perhaps we're not right now?

Alice Bonasio (14:46):

I think, that the main thing would be the skillset that's required, is going to be very different.
But at the same time, you will be able to repurpose some of those skill sets from other media.
But it is a balance. I think that if you come to VR or to immersive technologies with a set of
expectations, or that it will be like this or like other media, then then you're likely just fitting a
square peg in a round hole kind of thing. And that's not what it needs. You need to explore
what the medium does in its own right. And that's, that takes just a particular sort of a creator.
And I think we have a lot of brilliant people in that space, that are already doing some amazing
work on that. And not all of it is great straight away.

Alice Bonasio (15:49):

And I think that that's, like in the tech industry you have this concept of fail fast and iterate, and
I think that that's what's needed here. We're going to have a lot of failures, and we just need to
learn from them and move on, and sort of map our way around that. The quote that I used in
my presentation was actually from Thomas Edison that says, I have results, I know thousands of
things that won't work. And that's exactly how I feel about this technology. You need to find all
of the things that don't work, because it's like feeling your way around a dark room, to map it
out really. And then this talking to the students was really good, because I feel that this next
generation of communicators is really the one that is going to need to figure out this rule book.
And it's nice to have people coming in with a fresh perspective, that is informed by having
studied media, but then they don't have 30 years of working in a particular medium.

Damian Radcliffe (16:56):

They're not restricted by thinking this is the way you do it.

Alice Bonasio (17:01):

Exactly, and you inevitably as you do things, then you will find your comfortable, settled way of
doing that. And it's not to say that established media makers can't change. And a lot of them
will pivot into immersive. At RainDance film festival in London, I talked to this producer, and he
was well into his sixties, and had worked with every Hollywood legend you can name. And was
just a film legend. And he was gushing about the potential of VR. And he said, I found a new
career at 60, but I'm learning everything over again. So that's exciting in its own right. But then
you also get the brand new fresh eyed perspectives coming in there. And these people get to
write the rule book of an entirely new medium, and you don't get that sort of opportunity very
often. So that's what I find exciting about it.

Damian Radcliffe (18:06):

We've also heard from people working in other mediums, about the fact that if you are a little
bit older, have a few more gray hairs, then you do need to consistently be adding to your skill
set. So we've talked to photographers in this series who are saying, well I started out doing
photography and it was on a film. Then we moved to digital, then I had to start doing video. So
it's not just a students who are coming in with new entrance to the workforce, with a wide skill
set. Everybody who's in it also needs to be constantly adding new things to their skillset. And I
think one of the other things that really resonated with students, was when you talked about
skills as being like Lego. Do you want to say a little bit more about that?

Alice Bonasio (18:49):

Absolutely and I think that that's what you say is really to the point that, because for example
with photography, that's a really good example. You can uncouple some of the skills of a
photographer, and those are what I would say they're your foundation bricks really. They will
be useful in whatever form of the media you go. So if you know about how lighting works, for
example, it's like going back to the bare bones, whatever medium. So if they're doing video
that's the same principles, that if they're doing old fashioned photography in black and white,
that's the same principle. And in VR that's going to also be very useful, even if you are
generating that light artificially, digitally, whatever. I was really struck when I went to a unity
workshop. So unity is one of the main engines, that's used in gaming, but just general making
3D environments.

Alice Bonasio (19:50):

So a lot of VR content is done in unity, and I'm not a coder, but I was picking up the general way
in which an environment is built in an engine like that. And I was really struck at the parallels
between that and stage design in theater, because the way that you would place the light
would be like placing a spotlight. And then the way that you have to visualize 3D objects and
then place them in the scene, and how does it look from different places. Where you place the
audience, and then your audience will not all be in the same place, because they'll be seated
differently. How does it look for the actors? All of those things are transferrable. So a theater
person has a really useful skill set for VR, so you shouldn't stop teaching that. And that's what I
think is important when we're rethinking how to equip the new generation to also go into that
field. Is that a lot of this knowledge, you uncouple it from what is ephemeral.

Alice Bonasio (21:00):

And that's why I say don't get too hung up on hardware specific or software specific things.
Coding languages tend to be good, because a lot of them are transferable. So if you learn
something, it's probably more useful to go back to the basics of coding, and have a little bit of
that. If you have that technical bend, rather than oh I will learn one platform. And I'll only work
in mya for example. And it's like that can be useful, but maybe another engine will come along
that so much better and easier to work with, that everyone will start using it, and then your
skillset will be a little bit obsolete and you have to rush to catch up.

Alice Bonasio (21:43):

So you can't see anything as the end of the line, it's is about how do you have those core skills,
and then always adding the extra bits to it. And every project will be different, and you won't
have all of the skills that you need. It's a collaborative environment. That's really important to
sort of project based work. You will always really have to source different skills. And that's a skill
set in itself, to recognize who can help you to achieve something. And then how to bring them
together, and to coordinate that. I mean some of the most in demand jobs out there are in
project management, and that is a very specific skill as well, that can be for a technical or
nontechnical technical person. So really broad opportunities.

Damian Radcliffe (22:36):

So your skills as well as kind of projects as a whole. You talked about them being modular. You
have an array of different kinds of bricks if you like, these kind of Lego bricks. And you kind of
bring them together, to create something that's bigger than the sum of its parts.

Alice Bonasio (22:48):

Exactly, and that's about having a creative approach to that. So if things change, you don't see it
as a negative. You see an opportunity and then you add to that, and you adapt to it. So if
something isn't fitting in your current construction, then you take some something away, you
built on it. And you have that confidence, that your tools will adapt to the job at hand. So yeah,
it is like Lego. You can see a pile of bricks, but if you have the creativity and the knowhow, then
you can build any amazing thing, that your imagination desires, really.

Damian Radcliffe (23:33):

That sentiment also applies I guess to the Madonna analogy you gave yesterday, and which I
alluded to at the top of the podcast. I thought we might all be voguing in class, but sadly not.
That's for a future time, next time. Can you explain what you meant by kind of be like, I think
you said something like we need to all be a bit more like Madonna in our lives.

Alice Bonasio (23:51):

Yes, and I think where it comes to developing your career then yes, I think we could all be a bit
more Madonna. She is a very good example of somebody who has always, she's true to herself.
She hasn't just changed with the times and her personality. She has a core of what she is, but at
the same time her look, her music, her attitudes have always been influenced by her audience
and the times. And you compare her early music and her early looks, and throughout her
career, I mean they could be entirely different people almost. So that is what I mean about
pivoting and not being afraid to reinvent yourself.

Alice Bonasio (24:49):

It's not just about following trends, it is about staying true to yourself, but also interacting and
taking in what's around you. And moving with the times. So the example I gave, was that when
we first launched our website, we had a specific focus on just education technology, because
that was my particular area of expertise at the time. And I thought it would be easier to build a
niche website, rather than trying to get a general audience. But actually then I started seeing
how many stories were out there, that went beyond that scope. And I realized that there was
no real advantage to limiting ourselves to that. So we did an early rebrand on the site, which
was really effective. And allowed us to really build it, to the place that it is now. So that's just
one example.

Alice Bonasio (25:53):

And as I said with tech, you do have that attitude of try something else, see what sticks, see
what your audience actually likes, which often is very different from what you think, and then
iterate. It could be a small change, it could be a big change, but you cannot be afraid. There is
no end point. It's about constantly evolving a product, and if you're not evolving then likely
you're not doing it right, at that as well. So it is a very much a sort of rolling stone, don't gather
moss, sort of a analogy as well. So yeah, Mick Jagger's another great example, if you want the
male equivalent I think.

Damian Radcliffe (26:42):

And then talking of rolling stones, and you're kind of, I guess next reimagine is you've just
recently relocated to the States. So what's next on the horizon for you?
Alice Bonasio (26:55):
Well, I think that, at the moment I'm really interested in exploring the local scene. I mean this is
an amazing part of the world. I've got roots here as well, so I've always been a citizen of the
world. I've got four nationalities, and.

Damian Radcliffe (27:12):

Which I think is a record. I don't think I've met anybody else with as many different passports.
Aside from Jason Bourne.

Alice Bonasio (27:18):

Yes, exactly. So they're all real, amazingly enough. So I've been lucky enough to have been born
with three of them, and I've also naturalized as British. So I still like Britain and I still have roots
there, and I'll go back very often as well. And it's kind of a jewel home at the moment. But in
this part of the world, I think that there is such an amazing ecosystem as well. And I think it's
almost overlooked. You guys keep it quiet. And I think it might be part of the strategy. So you
don't want too many people to come over. But no this generally, I'm very much enjoying the
environment, but professionally there's a lot of immersive emerging tech going on around, well
certainly around places like Seattle and San Francisco. But then coming to this middle part like
Portland, is a really emerging tech hub as well. And even in Eugene as well, I've found some
surprising finds as well. So I think that I'll enjoy exploring the possibilities around here. And
hopefully interacting more with the University of Oregon, and its students as well.

Damian Radcliffe (28:52):

Great. Well Alice, thank you so much for taking the time to join with us today. A reminder that
Alice's full talk and all the materials rated to her visit this week will be on our website,
demystifying.uoregon.edu. That's demystifying.uoregon.edu. Keep an eye out for that, and in
the meantime, it just remains for me to thank once more. My guest today, Alice Bonasio. Alice
thanks for joining us.

Alice Bonasio (29:14):

Thank you. My pleasure.

Damian Radcliffe (29:23):

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