Link For Alex - Bugs Articles - Run It Once

6/2/2020 link for alex "bugs articles" | Run It Once
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Posted 7 years, 4 months ago
vanity02 posted in Low Stakes
link for alex "bugs articles"

preflop gto
http://en.donkr.com/Forum/optimal-3-bet-4-bet-5-bet-strategies-in-nlhe-6-max---part-1-
533561
postflop gto
http://en.donkr.com/forum/optimal-postflop-play-in-nlhe-6-max---part-1-533568
39 Comments
vanity02 7 years, 4 months ago

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Accept
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tkuu i just wanted to print it out tomorrow and read something thats not on
https://www.runitonce.com/nlhe/link-for-alex-bugs-articles/ 1/15
tkuu i just wanted to print it out tomorrow, and read something thats not on
screen for once :)
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its really long for the whole collection there are like 6-8 parts for pre and post
hehe gluck :)
Aleksandra ZenFish 7 years, 4 months ago

tks :)) i figured im quiet behind with theory so reading this week
James Hudson 7 years, 4 months ago

It's pretty easy to digest for something that can be quite dry and difficult to
understand normally.
thedoors 7 years, 4 months ago

thanks for links, what s gthe quality of the articles? in a video thread i
understood there were problems with it
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There was no problem with it, poster just thought it was not complete since
bugs did not include flatting ranges in his theory. But he left it out mainly to Accept
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reduce variables to simplify things so that it would be understandable. If
bi hi
https://www.runitonce.com/nlhe/link-for-alex-bugs-articles/ h ill h b id fh 2/15
you combine everything together you will have a better idea of how to
incorporate a flatting range. I'm not a huge fan of GTO, I think they are
good guidelines to setting your style.
One of my coaches once told me that he plays a GTO style only when
facing a tough opponent hu and switches to exploitative once he finds LOGan
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area of weakness. Which makes sense. Gluck probably going to take a

while to absorb, it's about as thick as a book lol

problem is there are few strategies on how to do 3-4-5 betting and that one
is one of the strategies and in that particular one there is no flat range and
is aplicable in specific situation when usual balance and order is disturbed,
the one of normal 3-4-5 betting, and that happens when u have a player
who starts 3 betting and 4 betting not top 5 or 10 procent of the range but
way widersuggested startegy is defensive or attack strategy in given play
situation and that one excludes flatting range, that you may use as well as
an option, but out of other strategies that involve 3-4-5 betting and include
ofcourse flatting

so problem accured when i said strategy excluded flatting range , but way i
said it was maybe a little ununderstandable, flatting is viable option but out of
the other strategies and not that particular one, and misunderstanding goes
as well as there is no one strategy on how to 3-4-5 bet but more , so when i
said excluded flatting range ....made some argument because i failed to be
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Well said :)

Mike87 7 years, 3 months ago LOG IN SIGN UP
I have a question regarding the first part of optimal 3b/4b/5b and I didn't want
to start a new thread for that. In the article he says that optimal play is sure to
never lose, being a defensive strategy.
But let's say we 4bet QQ+ AK for value planning to always call a 5bet (which
is supposed to be optimal based on the 3bet sizing of villain that makes us
obligated to defend a certain % of the time to not being exploited) and that
villain only 3bets AA and KK. I don't get how our play is optimal in that
scenario.
Any help would be appreciated, thanks

The scenario assumes both players are playing optimally, and that means that
villains 3-4-5 bet range is wider then AA and KK and is containing some bluffs
as well so he dont get to exploited as well, because basicly if he 3 bets AA
KK only you can successfully steal a lot by many 3 bets, and optimal strategy
for villain wouldnt allow him to value 3 bet as narrow range because he would
be prone to attacking alot including any 2 cards and yes defense strategy
says he must bet certain ammount of times that that doesnt happen and that
includes more then AA KK
If the villain 3 bets AA KK only you can safely fold any times he calls or 4 bets
and keep 3 betting him any 2 cards which wouldnt be optimal
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defend certain times so youLEARN get to do TAKE PART →
that with any 2 cards ×
you are dealt NOW →
In case you are called you need to have some bluff 4 bets included in your
range so he dont get to defend versus you with any 2 cards, and 5 bet is
same though for 5 bet allin you are suppose to have mostly value hands Accept
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range and some lil percentage off bluffs that would cover lower range of
villains allin in 5 bet with certain equity
villains allin in 5 bet with certain equity
All that is simulation of perfect conditions not reality, try to understand it from
article and reread it, because you will know how to use 3-4 betting succesfully
against various players depending on their style and stats, using perfect
condicions simulation and adjusting it to specific opponent ( 3 bettingLOG much IN SIGN UP
more or less depending opponent, doing it more if he is tight and less 4

betting 5 betting such opponent, and versus loose wide range opponent you
can widen your 4=5 bet range )
tozzy 7 years, 3 months ago

Knowing that villain only 3-b AA or KK is an exploitable read. In this case we
obv have to step back from gto and adapt an exploitative strategy.

I don't think you can apply GTO to that situation since villain has no three bet
bluffs in his range if say villain is also three betting 22-66 as bluffs we would
be able to construct a GTO strategy. But as is, it's best to play exploitative.
Which is to just fold to his three bets unless you have AA.
Mike87 7 years, 3 months ago

Thank you guys for the comments. I understand fully what you're saying and I
appreciate the feedback. I once thought that playing optimal was a strategy
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playing optimally where you'd break even.
I know see that you need to play exploitative instead to avoid being exploited
in some cases. I don't think that's true in every aspects of the game but I
Accept
Policy might be wrong (let's say you vbet river with a polarized range against a bluff
catching range with the right frequency based on your bet sizing).
I think understanding these articlesUP:

clearly will help me to know the optimal
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play and adjust to any villain based on what I know is optimal in order to
change my strategy to better exploit him.
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ZenFish 7 years, 3 months ago

Tipton's recent book is the way to go if if you want to apply GTO these days:
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/33/books-publications/expert-heads-up-
no-limit-holdem-v-1-optimal-exploitive-strategies-will-tipton-1281938/
Rigorous, but accessible. He does some simulations that aren't found

anywhere else (he wrote his own software for that).

Thanks , always good to have new reading, since i got here i realised i love
reading :) really helpful
Ace 7 years, 3 months ago

Right, been doing some work on my preflop ranges. I think I might be being
retarded here, but if I'm playing a balanced preflop range as described in
these articles, and I play against someone who never 3bet bluffs then am I
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StuZero
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Ace GTO is a purely theoretical concept. You can only play GTO against
an opponent who is also playing GTO Two perfect players playing an
an opponent who is also playing GTO. Two perfect players playing an
optimal GTO statagy have a winrate of ZERO.
If you are 4 bet bluffing against a guy who never bluffs, then he isnt playing
GTO so that means you cant either. LOG IN SIGN UP
The whole point of GTO is to understand where the balance point is. If you
know what your opponent "should" be doing and what his range "should be"
then you can adjust from GTO to be explotive, because you know he never
3bet bluffs and only 3bets AA and KK, you can then fold KK to a 3bet.
If a guy dosent 3bet bluff but 3bets a wider range for value, and stacks off
with most of that range, you can then 4bet a slightly wider value range than
is GTO, but you cant bluff because he wont fold the required amount for
your bluff to work.
GTO, in practice, is pointless. If you were in a game so tough that you had
to play GTO, run away as fast as you can because both players will, in the
long run, do no more than break even.
If you know what your opponent should do from a GTO point of view, then
you are in a better position to exploit them. If your opponent 3bets too many
bluffs and you notice this over time, then you can counter that by putting in
more 4 bet bluffs. GTO just gives you an idea of where the theoretical
balance point is and anyone who isnt playing close to GTO can be
exploited.. the trick is figuring out how, but if you compare a GTO range to
your opponents actual range, then you can more easily see what it is he is
doing wrong and what you should do to gain from that.
I think a lot of people think that its a cookie cutter strategy that can be
applied to anyone, when infact its more of a theoretical concept. That said,
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exploited. Which is why winrates drop the higher the stakes you play.
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So really cookies
haveto give you this
to turn the best experience.
on its Learn more
head, rather than about
tryingour
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play GTO, Accept
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try and figure how far off GTO your opponents are playing and then make
adjustments.
adjustments.
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Nice post Stu. However, I think you misunderstood a few things. Basically,
GTO means game theory optimal (obv). Which means it is the optimal
approach based on an opponent playing game theory optimal too, which you
seem to have said tbf. But basically, if I play perfect GTO (which obv I can't
nor can anyone), no matter how you play you cannot beat me. It will no longer
be the optimal strategy, because I will be leaking money in certain spots, but
it will make me money overall, and probably significantly more than I would
make by playing my own (suboptimal) exploitative strategy.
So basically I can play GTO and print of someone playing non GTO, eg if I
protect my opening range with proper 4bet frequencies then everytime they
try and exploit me by 3bet bluffing a hand that wouldn't fall in their GTO
range, I am printing money, as they are trying to exploit the unexploitable.
My question was that if I am defending my opening range with GTO 4bet

frequencies then it seems to me that I can be exploited, by someone who just
doesn't 3bet bluff. But that seems counterintuitve, because the whole point of
playing GTO frequencies is that they can't be exploited. So would appreciate
someone clearing it up.

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will probably be leaking moneyNOW →
in some other area that makes up for the times
that we leak some money to him preflop.
Accept
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But I am still confused, because lets simplify it, to us playing GTO, and not
adjusting to anything, and him playing GTO in all spots, apart from never 3bet
adjusting to anything, and him playing GTO in all spots, apart from never 3bet
bluffing the CO. We lose money to him everytime we 4bet bluff him after he
FROM
3bets us from the CO,THE
butGROUND
in all otherUP:spots MTT we Edition
breakeven (I don't think him ×
never 3bet bluffing the CO affects his other frequencies). So we are losing
money. But with GTO we can't lose money. Sorry I am confused and would
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appreciate someone clearing this up, thanks. also semi drunk so sorry for
typos
StuZero 7 years, 3 months ago

@Ace. You cannot play GTO on your own. GTO shows how your opponent
should play, and if he dosent p[lay that way then he is exploitable.. but you
then have to deviate away from GTO to do that. So if a guy isnt 3bet bluffing
you cannot use a GTO range against him.
GTO is a bit like this. You write down exactly how you play poker, then you
hand me that piece of paper, I read it and then write down exactly how I
intend to play against you. I hand you the paper pack, you read my strategy
and then write down all the adjustments that you intend to make based on
how I play. You then hand the paper back to me I re-read your new strategy
and make adjustments to mine, write then down and hand it back. At some
point we will end up with a strategy that neither of us can improve upon. That
is GTO. Our winrates are zero because you wont let me use a strategy that
causes you to loose and vise versa.
A GTO strategy is a strategy pair, it takes two people to do it, if I deviate from
GTO then I can exploit you but at the same time I create a weakness
somewhere else that you can also exploit... but you have to spot the
weakness. If you dont spot it then GTO wont spot it for you.
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StuZero
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I just thought, that you try and use a GTO style against me and I adjust to
exploit you then the weakness that I create in my own play may be bigger
exploit you then the weakness that I create in my own play may be bigger
than the gain I get from exploiting you... but if you dont spot the weakness
and adjust then Im winning!
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I wish I could edit these posts because I keep thinking of stuff after I hot the
post button.
GTO isnt something that you necessarily want to do, its just something that
you want to understand.
If you have a good understanding of GTO then you can compare your
opponents strategy to GTO and that will show you where all his leaks are..
and then you deviate away from GTO to exploit it.
The reason top players play close to a GTO style is that if you are playing
against someone like Durrr or Mr Galfond, then if you have leaks, they will
spot them and adjust so you sacrifice your winrate and play close to GTO just
to be in the game. I dont know how Phil Galfond compares to Durrr, but I
would guess that there is very little profit to be had by either of them in a
game. In theory, if they both play perfectly then their winrates are both zero
against each other. In a 6 max game, Phil isnt making money off Durrr or vise
versa the money is coming from the other people at the table.
Durrr is obviously a famous example and a player known for his manic moves
at the table, but I have heard stories about him where he plays Nits in
tournaments and instead of 3betting 4 betting and shoving rivers and so on,
he is just sat there folding because thats the way to exploit someone who is
overly tight, he isnt sat there thinking, "this guy only ever 3bets AA / KK , I
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Yeah I get what you are saying about the strategy pairs etc, but my overall
FROM
understanding of GTOTHE GROUNDto
is different UP: MTT
yours. My Edition
understanding is that it is not ×
always the optimal strategy, but that regardless of your opponents strategy, it
cannot lose.
EG, In a basic game of Rock paper scissiors, the GTO strat is clearly LOG
chooseIN SIGN UP
33% of each at random. No matter what my opponent does, this strategy

cannot result in me losing EV wise. At worst I can break even.
I don't think this is a fluke of the way rock paper scissors is set up. I am pretty
certain when i say that GTO strategy cannot lose no matter what counter
strategy our opponent tries to enact.

Which is obviously the problem I have when I look at the scenario I set out
above.

I think whats happening is this. GTO is really just showing you what the 5 bet
game looks like, then for the 5 bet game to exist the 4 bet game must already
be in place, for the 4 bet game to work,, the 3 bet game must be there. If
someone isnt playing the 3bet game and is just 3betting AA/KK then you
exploit that by folding and the 4 bet and 5 bet game cant be played..
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You can play GTO as long as villain has a bluff range, If villain is only
3betting/5betting AA KK AK for value and lets just sayAx Kx Qx Broadways as
a bluff and we play a GTO range according to his range we make money
because he is folding to too many 4bets since our 4bet/call 4bet/fold ranges
Accept
Policy are balanced and consists of a balanced value/bluff ratio. Now if villain is
3/5betting AA KK AK for value and only has say AQ AJ as bluffs then he is
value heavy our gto range would be alot tighter something like AA KK for
value and AK as a bluff.
GTO plays are constructed based on ranges and not "oh if I play this this set
pattern I'm never exploitable". LOG IN SIGN UP
So the best questions to ask yourself is, What is his 3bet range? Does he fold
to 4bets?(if he is then he has bluffs in his 3betting range) Guestimate his
5betting value range and does he ever 5bet bluff? Is villain a tough player or
easy player? Now you ask yourself the most important question, is playing
GTO better or exploiting him based on what I know about his 3/4/5 betting
ranges?
Just remember as long as you know his value range and that he has bluffs,
you can construct a GTO strategy vs that opponent. If he doesn't have any
bluffs, taking the exploitative approach is probably best.

The two example I gave is not accurate btw, its just a rough explanation off
the top of my head to convey the meaning of playing GTO.

okay guys I asked this question on 2+2 and the answers I got there made
more sense; http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showpost.php?
p=37160034&postcount=11 explains it.
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I think a lot of people in this thread seem to be under the misconception that
NOW
you can exploit a true GTO gameplan, and by it's very definition, you can't.
Accept
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Ace 7 years 3 months ago

Just to make it clear,
FROM playing GTO is only technically the BEST option, if villain
THE GROUND UP: MTT Edition ×
is playing GTO too. Otherwise he is going to be unbalanced and exploitable
in certain spots. But regardless of how he plays, if you play GTO your overall
gameplan is going to be +EV. LOG IN SIGN UP
Unfortunately, noone will play true GTO for a long time if ever.

are there any articles about optimal preflop calling ranges?
It seems that everything is centred around raising preflop and very little about
what GT says about calling.

This is where you can find the rest of his collection
http://en.donkr.com/profile/discussions/Bugs

there is 6 articles or 7 ~ in that bugs link
first creates optimum attack defence preflop 3-4-5 betting with no calling in
playing pair, in later articles it makes calling range as well ~ that includes QQ
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StuZero 7 years, 3 months ago Accept
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could you please post a link to actual articles that deal with preflop calling
ranges because Im looking at the descriptions and they all look like 3 betting
preflop or postflop
FROMplat
THEwhere as I am
GROUND MTTfor
UP: looking Edition
preflop calling ranges. ×
Thanks
LOG IN SIGN UP

flating is calling an open im not sure what you meant by calling ranges? flat
call open from person opening with a raise ( which is normal ppl rarely limp )
flating in position u can see in ~ on a glance i see it here,
http://en.donkr.com/forum/optimal-3-bet-4-bet-5-bet-strategies-in-nlhe-6-max--
-part-7-533567

flating in position~ is calling range

flatting is mentioned in few of these articles but beside that 1 i saw on glance i
really cant say what ones, i pasted all in1 word document :S

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FROM THE GROUND UP: MTT Edition ×

Posted 7 years, 4 months ago

vanity02 posted in Low Stakes

link for alex "bugs articles"

vanity02 7 years, 4 months ago

vanity02 7 years, 4 months ago

Aleksandra ZenFish 7 years, 4 months ago

James Hudson 7 years, 4 months ago

thedoors 7 years, 4 months ago

area of weakness. Which makes sense. Gluck probably going to take a

Aleksandra ZenFish 7 years, 4 months ago

Aleksandra ZenFish 7 years, 4 months ago

Runitonce.com uses cookies to7 give

FROM THE GROUND UP: MTT Edition ×

Any help would be appreciated, thanks

Aleksandra ZenFish 7 years, 3 months ago

more or less depending opponent, doing it more if he is tight and less 4

tozzy 7 years, 3 months ago

vanity02 7 years, 3 months ago

Mike87 7 years, 3 months ago

I think understanding these articlesUP:

ZenFish 7 years, 3 months ago

Rigorous, but accessible. He does some simulations that aren't found

Aleksandra ZenFish 7 years, 3 months ago

Ace 7 years, 3 months ago

Runitonce.com uses you

FROM THE GROUND UP: MTT Edition ×

Ace 7 years, 3 months ago

My question was that if I am defending my opening range with GTO 4bet

Ace 7 years, 3 months ago

StuZero 7 years, 3 months ago

StuZero 7 years, 3 months ago

33% of each at random. No matter what my opponent does, this strategy

Ace 7 years, 3 months ago

StuZero 7 years, 3 months ago

vanity02 7 years, 3 months ago

Ace 7 years, 3 months ago

Ace 7 years 3 months ago

StuZero 7 years, 3 months ago

Aleksandra ZenFish 7 years, 3 months ago

Aleksandra ZenFish 7 years, 3 months ago

Aleksandra ZenFish 7 years, 3 months ago

Aleksandra ZenFish 7 years, 3 months ago

Aleksandra ZenFish 7 years, 3 months ago

StuZero 7 years, 3 months ago

About FROM THE GROUND UP:

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