Professional Documents
Culture Documents
Massachusetts Diploma Privilege Petition
Massachusetts Diploma Privilege Petition
v.
In re: Emergency Waiver of the Bar Exam Requirements for Admission to the Massachusetts Bar
and Provision of an Emergency Diploma Privilege Option
To mitigate the dramatic disparities that will result from the administration
2020, Petitioners ask this Court, pursuant to its inherent authority over the
(“diploma privilege plus”), and to adopt appropriate relief measures for those
To date, over 640 law school students and graduates, law school deans, law
school professors, and legal practitioners have publicly urged this Court to adopt a
diploma privilege option.1 While this Court has, in the course of its substantive and
thorough engagement with this issue, thus far declined to do so, the facts on the
ground have changed considerably in the past two weeks: in particular, three states
have attempted to administer online bar exams, and none has done so successfully.
disparate, and ongoing. Faced with these challenges and the inevitability of
1
Washington, and Louisiana have each adopted some form of diploma privilege.2 As
Chief Justice Johnson of the Louisiana Supreme Court explained, “This COVID-
19 crisis is unprecedented, and it calls for unprecedented and bold action, including
students not by their level of competence and preparedness, but by their level of
privilege. Applicants most at risk to fail will be individuals lacking access to quality
internet and quiet spaces where they can study; individuals forced to seek
examination date has stretched many of them beyond their careful financial plans;
individuals who contract COVID-19, or who must care or mourn for loved ones
who have fallen ill or died from COVID-19; and individuals with disabilities. To
avoid this outcome, Petitioners respectfully request that this Honorable Court:
2 See Order by the Supreme Court of Louisiana (La. July 22, 2020) (Exhibit 2);
Order Approving 2020 Admissions Process, No. 20-012 (Ore. June 30, 2020)
(Exhibit (4); Order Granting Diploma Privilege and Temporarily Modifying
Admission Practice & Practice Rules, No. 25700-B-630 (Wash. Jun. 12, 2020)
(Exhibit 5); Order for Temporary Amendments to Bar Admission Procedures
During COVID-19 Outbreak (Utah Apr. 21, 2020) (Exhibit 6); Wis. Sup. Ct. R.
40.03 (1979).
3 Press Release, Louisiana Supreme Court, Louisiana Supreme Court
Announcement Regarding 2020 Bar Examination (July 22, 2020) (Exhibit 3).
2
1) adopt a one-time, emergency diploma privilege plus option for applicants,
including any additional educational or supervised practice requirements
as this Court deems necessary;
2) adjust the cut-off score for applicants who choose to sit for the online bar
exam in order to reflect the unique hardships posed by the COVID-19
pandemic; and
3) adopt rules that safeguard applicants who sit for the online bar exam from
being penalized, e.g. losing time on the bar exam or having to wait until
the February 2021 administration, for loss of internet or other
technological issues out of their control; and
4) adopt rules for the online bar exam that do not necessitate the usage of
facial recognition technology or remote proctors.
These emergency measures will mitigate the gross disparate impacts likely to
result from the administration of an untested online bar exam in the midst of a
pandemic, ensuring the timely and just admission of qualified and competent
PETITIONERS
Petitioners are first-time applicants who are currently registered for the
jurisdiction over any decision to admit an attorney to the practice of law in this
3
administration] is reinforced by the extraordinary powers, conferred by G.L. c.
Supreme Judicial Court Rule 3:01 generally requires passage of the bar
exam to obtain attorney licensure for applicants not already admitted to practice
law in another jurisdiction. However, this Court possesses “the equitable power to
prepare for the bar exam. Over 190 individuals who plan to sit for the bar exam
4
● 19% of applicants surveyed have a legal job offer contingent upon
them passing the bar exam; 14% of applicants surveyed have already
lost their job offer due either to issues related to COVID-19 or the
delay of the bar exam.
● 75% of applicants surveyed report financial insecurity.
● 29% of applicants surveyed report housing insecurity.
● 25% of applicants surveyed report that they are caring for children or
family members as a direct result of the COVID-19 pandemic.
● Almost 9% of applicants surveyed report food insecurity.7
One applicant writes, “I got sick with COVID symptoms in March and
while the other symptoms have subsided, I have had a fever and fatigue
continuously since then (16+ weeks). These symptoms have been sometimes
debilitating. My doctors have told me the only thing I can do is rest.” Another
writes, “I cannot afford internet service and planned to study for the bar exam in
currently using free Xfinity WiFi, but the connection is very poor. I often am
unable to connect or get disconnected while using the free service.” Challenges
5
These hardships disparately impact applicants of color and low-income
reports that Black and Latino residents test positive for COVID-19 at three times
the rate of white residents; are hospitalized at higher rates than white residents; and
die from COVID-19 at higher rates compared to white or Asian residents. Nine of
the ten cities in Massachusetts with the highest rates of COVID-19 infection are
communities where more than half the residents identify as persons of color.8
Nationwide, data from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (“CDC”)
show that Black and Latino residents are three times as likely to be infected with
COVID-19 and nearly twice as likely to die from COVID-19 as white people.9
Thus, Black and Latino applicants are more likely to suffer from COVID-19, or
know someone who has died from COVID-19, as compared to their white peers.
This Court recognized these impacts, and the presence of systemic racism, in
its letter dated June 3, 2020. The Court stated that “African-Americans have
8 Hanson, Coronavirus-positive case rate is 3 times higher for Black and Latino
populations, Massachusetts COVID-19 Health Equity Advisory Group finds,
MassLive.com (June 19, 2020),
https://www.masslive.com/coronavirus/2020/06/coronavirus-positive-case-rate-
is-3-times-higher-for-black-and-latino-populations-massachusetts-covid-19-health-
equity-advisory-group-finds.html.
9Gebellof et al., The Fullest Look Yet at the Racial Inequality of Coronavirus, The
New York Times (July 5, 2020),
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/07/05/us/coronavirus-latinos-
african-americans-cdc-data.html.
6
suffered disproportionately from the COVID-19 pandemic, both in terms of the
number of deaths and the extent of economic hardship it has caused.”10 These
impacts compound the “inequity and injustice that is the legacy of slavery, of Jim
“the untruths and unfair stereotypes about African-Americans that have been used
These disparate impacts will compound the existing racial disparities in bar
passage rates that exist under normal circumstances. Chief Justice Gants
acknowledged “reasonable concerns about the disparate impact of the bar on law
graduates of color” in his letter to Massachusetts law school deans on April 22,
2020.12 Massachusetts does not publish bar passage data disaggregated by race and
ethnicity. However, in New York in July 2017, 79.6% of white examinees passed
the Uniform Bar Exam, as compared to 48.6% of Black examinees and 57.1% of
10 Letter from the Seven Justices of the Supreme Judicial Court to Members of the
Judiciary and the Bar (June 3, 2020), https://www.mass.gov/news/letter-from-the-
seven-justices-of-the-supreme-judicial-court-to-members-of-the-judiciary-and.
11 Id.
12 Letter from Chief Justice Ralph D. Gants to Law School Deans (Apr. 22, 2020)
(Exhibit 8).
13Impact of Adoption of the Uniform Bar Examination in New York, National
Conference of Bar Examiners at 149,
https://www.nybarexam.org/UBEReport/NY%20UBE%20Adoption%20Part%
202%20Study.pdf.
7
passed the California bar exam, as compared to 32.1% of first-time Black
This Court’s June 3rd letter concluded that “this must be a time not just of
reflection but of action.”15 Petitioners agree. While the Court has thus far acted
swiftly to move to an online bar exam, changing facts call for additional action to
public health risks that would flow from an in-person bar exam, it does not provide
applicants who cannot be sure that the online bar exam will proceed without
technical failure. An online bar exam also increases the likelihood that the bar
exam will disadvantage applicants of color, applicants with disabilities, and lower-
II. The Court’s Current Plan to Administer an Online Bar Exam Relies
on Unreliable and Biased Technology
i. The first attempts at online bar administration have been seriously compromised by
technological failures.
14 General Statistics Report, July 2019 California Bar Examination (July 2019),
http://www.calbar.ca.gov/Portals/0/documents/July2019-CBX-Statistics.pdf?.
15 Id.
8
On July 24, 2020, the Supreme Court of Indiana announced that it was
postponing the state’s online bar exam, scheduled to be administered four days
later on July 28, 2020, due to the “continuing failure” of exam software provided
Indiana’s online exam conducted with all registered examinees. Many examinees
reported that they could not access the exam software, and that when they called
the software vendor’s support number, they reached only a voicemail inbox.17
The Indiana Supreme Court noted that it had received “repeated assurances
from the vendor” regarding the reliable performance of the exam software, and yet
did not believe that such problems could be fixed in time for the scheduled exam.18
Online Bar Exam- ILG360 Software Still Not Working, Reddit (July 24, 2020),
https://www.reddit.com/r/Bar_Prep/comments/hx39wg/indiana_online_bar_ex
am_ilg360_software_still_not. ( describing numerous technical issues, and that calls
to vendor’s support line went to voicemail); @Lawyerella_JD, Twitter (July 24,
2020), https://twitter.com/Lawyerella_JD/status/1286724265514078208 (photo
of exam software stating that the user did not have an internet connection).
18 @BarExamTracker, Twitter (July 24, 2020),
https://twitter.com/BarExamTracker/status/1286767247592169478 (contains
copy of email sent to Indiana examinees by Indiana bar administrators).
9
These problems arose despite the fact that Indiana was to administer a relatively
small online bar exam, with roughly 500 bar exam takers.19
in Indiana’s live beta test of the ILG Technology software, also announced on July
24, 2020 that it was postponing the state’s July 28 online exam.20
The Indiana and Nevada online bar exams were rescheduled to August 4
and August 11–12, respectively. On July 28, the Indiana Supreme Court
concluded that it could not hold its online exam as planned on the rescheduled
date with confidence that no malfunctions would occur; it announced that the
open-book exam conducted over email.21 The Nevada Supreme Court followed
suit shortly thereafter, ordering that the Nevada Bar Exam, already slated to be
19 See, e.g., Odendahl, External webcams, quiet rooms among details for first-ever
remote bar exam in July, The Indiana Lawyer (May 29, 2020),
https://www.theindianalawyer.com/articles/external-webcams-quiet-rooms-
needed-for-first-ever-remote-bar-exam-in-july.
20 Order Postponing July 2020 Bar Examination (Nev. July 24, 2020) (Exhibit 13).
21 Order on Indiana Bar Examination, No. 20S-CB-00300 (Ind. July 29, 2020)
(Exhibit 12).
22 See @BarExamTracker, Twitter (July 31, 2020),
https://twitter.com/BarExamTracker/status/1289378509379362816.
10
The first online bar exam to actually be administered—Michigan’s one-day,
questions for extended periods of time.24 Examinees reported that they called
problems was to start posting the passwords required to access each essay question
their scheduled times were permitted to work on these questions at different times
than other examinees, again compromising exam integrity. While examinees were
given extra time to make up for any lost time they experienced, this solution was of
11
minimal utility; this information was not communicated to examinees until they
had already begun their exam answers under the impression that they had lost
time, therefore likely affecting the quality of their responses.26 Examinees reported
that the disruption affected their ability to focus and their performance.”27 One
examinee reported that when she had ten minutes left on each module, her
computer screen would flash with a warning that her computer battery was dying
and that it would shut down; this warning was erroneous, because the examinee
was using a desktop computer that was plugged into an outlet, not a laptop that
relied on battery power. The examinee reported that these erroneous warnings
Two days after the bar exam, the Chief Justice of the Michigan Supreme
Court wrote an open letter to Michigan examinees, expressing that she was “so
https://twitter.com/MelSouraya/status/1288258788085112832?cxt=HHwWgIC
1qdqi6OAjAAAA.
12
sorry” for the exam administration issues, and that Michigan would consider
ii. Recent online standardized tests in other fields have also faced serious technological
troubles.
https://twitter.com/AmBdSurg/status/1284068218223697923 (official
announcement regarding the exam).
32See, e.g., Kupfer, Med school final exam plagued with technical issues after
moving online due to COVID-19, CBC (June 22, 2020),
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/medical-Mcc-exam-technical-issues-
1.5619168.
13
administrator.33 After the problems on the AP test, the College Board,
which also administers the SAT, cancelled plans for an online SAT.34
● On the online Graduate Management Admission Test (“GMAT”),
test-takers have reported, in particular, that the virtual scratch paper
they are afforded is difficult to use, “a consequence that costs test-
takers valuable time and points on their overall GMAT scores.”35
iii. Massachusetts has not publicly announced any contingency plans to provide
applicants reasonable recourse if similar problems occur during the Massachusetts
bar exam.
Petitioners are not aware of any plans this Court has to address situations
like those described above, although they recognize, and hope, that the Court may
days and weeks leading up to the exam, as was the case in Indiana and Nevada, a
Indiana and Nevada) is likely not an option because of the many other jurisdictions
33 See, e.g., Jaschik, College Board Says AP Testing a Success, Inside Higher Ed
(May 26, 2020),
https://www.insidehighered.com/admissions/article/2020/05/26/college-board-
says-ap-testing-was-success-sued.
34 See, e.g., Adams, ACT Is Struggling to Give Its College Admissions Tests
14
administering the same National Conference of Bar Examiners material on the
That being said, in the unlikely event that a short delay is possible, even
short delays can be harmful for test-takers who have made arrangements in
reliance upon the scheduled date of the bar exam—for instance, arranging and
paying for childcare, booking a hotel room or office space to take the exam,
making plans to move or start work after the exam, and so forth.
In the more likely event that a short delay is not possible, Petitioners would
respectfully encourage this Court, if it has not already done so, to develop a
will use ExamSoft, and not ILG, to administer the online bar exam. This, however,
15
experience is not the first time that bars have dealt with ExamSoft-related
problems.36
simultaneously on October 5 and 6.37 Not only does this high volume of users put
the software at greater risk of malfunctioning due to being overloaded,38 but it will
was apparently unable to field support calls from some number of Michigan’s
36 For instance, an individual who sat for a 2017 Florida bar exam has recently filed
a complaint, supported by an expert report, alleging that ExamSoft software
malfunctioned during his examination, and erroneously reported him to have
continued writing the exam after the time limit had expired. See Complaint,
Prado-Galarza v. Examsoft Worldwide, Inc., 6:20-cv-01294, No. 1 (M.D. Fla. July
21, 2020) at 2–5 (Exhibit 9). It took this applicant more than nine months and
$25,000 in legal and expert expenses to successfully challenge the Florida Bar’s
determination that he had cheated, all the while facing additional professional and
financial hardship due to his inability to practice law in Florida. See id. at 4–5.
37 Fourteen states, including New York, California, Illinois, Pennsylvania, Georgia
16
have the capacity to provide technical support for the tens of thousands of
Third, this Court’s current policy is that examinees will not be permitted to
have telephones in their examination room, and must remain in view of their
cameras during all times when the exam is being administered.40 It is therefore
unclear how examinees could possibly seek technical support without violating
Finally, in an exam that entails such strict time limits, even the smallest
technological hurdle could make the fatal difference between passing and failing.
Even if the software functions properly for a majority of the thousands of October
17
inflected with racial and gender bias. As the American Civil Liberties Union of
identify Black people, people of Asian descent, and women. In a 2019 ACLU
These issues may well appear during the bar exam. As the ACLU of
or mannerisms. For undocumented bar applicants and applicants of color, the risks
of having their biometric data stored in a vendor’s database increases the possibility
of surveillance and criminalization that they are already unduly subjected to.”43
18
Further, remote examinations have an outsize impact on examinees with
disabilities. When reporting on Tennessee’s online bar exam code of conduct for
the October 5–6 exam administration, Business Insider wrote, “[b]ar exam
candidates in Tennessee shouldn't touch their face, twirl their hair, or fidget
looking away from the screen too long or too often. Any of these behaviors may be
flagged as cheating and puts an examinee at increased risk of having their score
cancelled. While it would be hard for almost anyone to control these typical human
impossible for some candidates with disabilities and mental illnesses to do so.45
44 Han, Some Young Lawyers Taking the Bar Exam Online Could See Their
Scores Canceled If They Touch Their Face, Fidget, or Twirl Their Hair, Business
Insider (July 25, 2020), https://www.businessinsider.com/tennessee-online-bar-
exam-strict-rules-2020-7.
45 The National Disabled Law Students Association is currently circulating a survey
on accessibility concerns surrounding the online bar exam, but many students with
disabilities have chimed in on social media. For instance, one 2020 examinee
referred to the list as “literally just a list of things that I do whenever I concentrate
because I have ADHD, predominantly inattentive type.” Melanie K. Blair
(@Melanie_K_Blair), Twitter (July 24, 2020),
https://twitter.com/Melanie_K_Blair/status/1286790025116626947?s=20 (tweet
links to and comments on screenshots of Tennessee Board of Law Examiners’
“Code of Conduct” for the administration of their remote bar exam). Another
examinee explained that, due to Tourette syndrome, “I couldn’t comply with any
of these stay still requirements...” See Han, supra note 44.
19
ExamSoft also presents numerous privacy issues, which further compound
supra, note 23. This does not instill confidence that ExamSoft has taken adequate
policy that it will share user data with law enforcement upon request.46 In order to
be admitted to the bar, applicants have no choice but to surrender their personal
data to this vendor, risking that this data is hacked or given to law enforcement.
Here in the Commonwealth, within the past month, both the Massachusetts
House of Representatives and the State Senate have passed legislative language
all but a few clearly prescribed situations as part of their respective versions of
constituted in the House and Senate bills, or indeed any final language signed into
law, would extend to the Board of Bar Examiners’ usage of ExamSoft’s facial
20
technology is highly incompatible with the Commonwealth’s rejection of
Understanding with the National Conference of Bar Examiners would allow for
technology. If that is, in fact, the case, this only heightens the importance of
internet and technological issues completely beyond their control and artificial
Petitioners have no doubt that the Board of Bar Examiners will do their
utmost to find accommodations with reliable internet and a quiet space for every
impact survey, fewer than 46% of applicants reported access to reliable and
consistent internet, and only 30% reported access to a quiet space in which to take
the exam.49
21
Importantly, these barriers do not only affect applicants’ ability to take the
online bar exam. They also impose barriers to applicants’ ability to effectively
prepare for the bar exam itself, in addition to the disparate impacts discussed in
Section I, supra.
In July 2019, 1,377 applicants took the bar exam in Massachusetts. If the
number of applicants taking the October bar exam is the same, and if the results of
the impact survey reflect the needs of many more applicants, the Board of Bar
examinees with otherwise reliable internet or a quiet study space. Consider, for
example, the Michigan examinee whose next-door neighbor started having trees
cut down during the bar exam’s administration, causing great noise.50 Unless
protections are put in place to ensure examinees are not penalized for unexpected
disruptions, the bar exam will merely reward examinees with access to resources
22
and the good fortune of working internet and quiet neighbors on the days of the
Even more concerning is the requirement for all states administering the
This means that students with disabilities—many of whom are among the most at
risk for both contracting and suffering severe effects from COVID-19—are
required to put themselves at risk in order to sit for the “remote” exam in person.
In declining to adopt diploma privilege thus far, this Court has emphasized
that current bar exam passage rates indicate that if a diploma privilege option were
Petitioners agree with this Court that the able performance of attorneys is of
the utmost importance. Lawyers are called to handle a person’s most critical
(Exhibit 7).
23
matters—their life, liberty, immigration status, familial relationships, and property.
dating back to the 1800’s, indicates that diploma privilege does not present
Wisconsin allows diploma privilege for the graduates of its two in-state law
eligible, a graduate must (1) earn 30 law school credits with a grade of “C” or
higher in a mandated set of ten core law school subjects central to any law school
education, and (2) earn another 30 law school credits with a grade of “C” or higher
53 Moran, The Wisconsin Diploma Privilege: Try It, You’ll Like It, 2000 Wis. L.
Rev. 645, 648 (2000).
54 The LSAT median for those attending Marquette University is 154. See Class
Profiles Fall 2019 Entering J.D. Class, Marquette University Law School,
https://law.marquette.edu/prospective-students/class-profiles. The LSAT median
for those attending the University of Wisconsin is 162. See Consumer Information
(ABA Required-Disclosures), Law School University of Wisconsin-Madison,
https://law.wisc.edu/prospective/stats.html.
24
from a wide list of elective courses.55 Petitioners attest that they each took the vast
majority of the mandated set of courses, and also that they took many courses
included in the list of elective courses. Given that most of Wisconsin’s mandated
courses are required at all law schools as well the wide breadth of the elective
courses to choose from, Petitioners believe this to be the case for most applicants.
commit legal malpractice at higher rates. And yet, this is not so. A study of
Wisconsin bar discipline cases from January 2013 to March 2016 compared
lawyers admitted through diploma privilege to those admitted through bar passage.
The study revealed that “the bar passage group had more sustained disciplinary
55The mandated courses are in the areas of: constitutional law, contracts, criminal
law and procedure, evidence, jurisdiction of courts, ethics and responsibilities of the
legal profession, pleading and practice, real property, torts, and wills and estates.
The elective courses are in the areas of: administrative law, appellate practice and
procedure, commercial transactions, conflict of laws, constitutional law, contracts,
corporations, creditors’ rights, criminal law and procedure, damages, domestic
relations, equity, evidence, future interests, insurance, jurisdiction of courts,
legislation, labor law, partnership, personal property, pleading and practice, public
utilities, quasi-contracts, real property, taxation, torts, trade regulation, trusts, and
wills and estates. See Wisconsin Supreme Court Rule 40.03, Legal competence
requirement: Diploma Privilege.
25
cases and that those disciplinary violations were usually based upon more serious
to note that Wisconsin’s diploma privilege model does not entail the additional
privilege to applicants from in- and out-of-state law schools alike, irrespective of an
applicant’s law school’s exam passage rates.57 We presume that the Supreme
ensuring consumer protection, and yet concluded that diploma privilege was
26
B. Requirements such as additional education or temporary
supervised practice will further protect consumers.
This model offers significant benefits for consumers, this Court, and
and other required programming over the course of one year (or more, as this
27
Court deems appropriate) will bring the benefit of increased knowledge of the
Commonwealth’s laws and court system to the people they serve. This level of
lawyer’s area of practice, will surpass the level of training that newly-admitted
attorneys are currently required to possess, and will be a benefit to consumers and
exist, and therefore will be feasible for this Court and the Massachusetts Bar to
immediately. But it is also equitable because it is an option that will be feasible for
all applicants: even if this Court were to require a significant amount of educational
requirements over the course of an extended period of time (e.g., a year). Such
28
ii. The Utah Model: Supervised Practice
The Supreme Court of Utah has adopted diploma privilege combined with
supervised practice model, he identified three main concerns: (1) a pandemic is not
a great time to launch a new program and remote supervision makes adequate
training more difficult, (2) any apprenticeship program must include standards and
would disadvantage those who are unable to find an attorney to supervise and
mentor them.
suboptimal time to launch a new program, Petitioners urge, to the contrary, that it
may be the best and most equitable time to do so. Further, while fast-tracking a
supervised practice program during this time may be challenging, so too is offering
simply, any response to this current crisis will have its challenges.
primarily remotely during COVID-19, legal workplaces have now had almost half
29
a year to adjust to remote practice. At this point, most legal employers have
into how training can successfully be accomplished while employees work from
home. There is also no reason to believe that employers have lowered their
standards for entry-level attorneys merely because work is now done remotely.
this Court might consider devising its own basic standards and requirements for
England and Wales. These standards set out a broad slate of skills that any solicitor
must have, ranging from advocacy and oral presentation to drafting and legal
research.61 Each trainee solicitor must maintain a written record containing their
reflections and their supervisor’s appraisal of their attainment of the skills required
Third. Petitioners share in the Chief Justice’s concern that, while many
applicants may be able to qualify for supervised practice through their employers,
30
some applicants may not be able to do so. That being said, a diploma privilege plus
model based upon supervised practice need not displace the bar exam as the only
route for admission. Every state that adopted diploma privilege has also maintained
an examination option (an approach that has the added benefit of reducing the
prefer to take the bar exam for any number of reasons could do so. There is no
perfectly equitable path to licensure given the unique challenges of this pandemic.
Therefore, more than one path must be offered to mitigate the inequities that each
63See Order by the Supreme Court of Louisiana, supra note 2; Order Granting
Diploma Privilege, supra note 2 (Washington); Order Approving 2020 Admissions
Process, supra note 2 (Oregon); Wis. Sup. Ct. R. 40.03; Bar Examination Dates
2020-2021, Utah State Bar, Bar Operations and Admissions,
https://admissions.utahbar.org/news.action?id=300.
31
CONCLUSION
For many applicants, a bar exam administered this fall will not be an
peers who have more financial resources and who are from communities less
affected by COVID-19. There is also a high risk that examinees will be subjected
to technological failures beyond their control. Therefore, this Court should join the
32