Locomotives For Heavy Industry-C. Wordsworth-1955

LOCOMOTIVES FOR HEAVY INDUSTRY 609
A Paper entitled “Locomotives for Heavy Industry” was

presented by Mr. C. Wordsworth (Associate Member).
LOCOMOTIVES
F O R HEAVYI N D U S T R Y
B y C . W O R D S II’OIITH (rlssociate illettiber)
Paper presented before the InstiBtion in London on 14th December

1955 and repeated in the Centres as shown below :-
North Eastern Centre, Leeds, 20th December 1955 (page 650)
Scottish Centre, Glasgow, 21st December 1955 (page 655)
Midlands Centre, Derby, 11th January 1956 (page 663)
Newcastle-on-Tyne Centre, Darlington, 19th January 1956 (page 671)
PAPER No. 551
1. INTRODUCTION
As far as is known, no paper has ever been read before the
Institution on the subject of industrial locomotives and the purpose
of this paper is to try to fill this gap. The words “Heavy Industry”
have been deliberately inserted in the title as the locomotive problems
of an ordinary factory are entirely different from those of a large
steelworks or any other industrial concern of the same magnitude,
and this paper is only concerned with the latter. Similarly, condi-
tions overseas may differ greatly from those in this country and it is
therefore proposed to examine this subject from the U.K. viewpoint
alone.
Despite the fact that the output of industrial locomotives from
builders’ works must form quite a considerable part of their total
output, some members may not realise that big industrial concerns
operate quite large locomotives in their plants which can compare
fully with main-line shunting engines, but often operating under
conditions within which no main line shunting engine would be
called upon to work. The steel industry, in particular, is very
greatly concerned with efficient and economical motive power and i t
is around the conditions in one of this country’s largest steel plants
that this paper is written, i.e. the Steel Division of The Steel
Company of Wales Limited at Port Talbot.
Up to the end of the Second World War, little interest had been
taken by most steelworks in locomotive development. Some firms.
had, in conjunction with the builders, developed locomotive types to
suit their own requirements, but many firms were quite content to use
the builders’ standard designs and very little had been done in the
development of diesel
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610 JOURNAL OF THE INSTITUTION OF LOCOMOTIVE ENGINEERS
In March 1947, a very comprehensive report was prepared by

the British Iron & Steel Research Association on the subject of loco-
motives for Iron and Steel works and this report made a profound
impression upon the steel industry, especially at a time when large
development schemes were just getting under way and when many
new locomotives would have to be ordered. The price of coal had
increased very sharply since the pre-war days and its quality had
fallen off. Since this report was published, practically every steel-
works has examined its locomotive position and much is being done
to put matters on an efficient and economical basis; obviously no steel
company is in the business of transport for its own sake and all
necessarily incurred transport charges must be kept as low as possible.
Within a steelworks, the exchange of traffic with the main-line
railway is only part of the problem; extensive internal movement of
productive materials is also made and the total annual cost of hand-
ling rail traffic amounts to a substantial sum which, in this competi-
tive world, makes economy essential.
FIG. 1
30-TON HOPPER WAGON
FIG. 2 ( l o w e r )
80-TON OPEN WAGON
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LOCOMOTIVES FOR HEAVY INDUSTRY 61 1
2. THE PHYSICAL BACKGROUND

At this stage it may be advisable to describe the general details
of conditions within a steelworks and also some details of the type of
loads encountered. Much internal traffic is handled in ordinary type
of wagons, although there is a tendency for wagon capacities to be
increased-€or example, the S.C.W. standard hopper wagon shown
in Fig. 1 has a capacity of 30 tons with a 13-ton tare, making a 21+-
ton axleload.
The Steel Company of Wales now has 106 bogie scrap wagons
of 80-ton capacity which with an average tare of about 30 tons,
gives an axleload of 27& tons. Fig. 2 shows one of the latest of this
type.
Blast Furnace slag is carried in ladle wagons, shown in Fig. 3,
having a capacity of 22 tons of slag and a gross weight of 64 tons.
Trains of seven of these are propelled up a 1 in 70 grade to the slag
tips.
FIG. 3
BLAST FURNACE SLAG LADLE
BLAST FURNACE HOT METAL LADLE
Hot metal is conveyed from the Blast Furnaces to the Melting

Shops in ladle wagons holding 70 tons of molten iron, with a gross
weight of about 130 tons-an axleload of 32: tons. Up to seven of
these-may form a train (Fig. 4 ) .
Ingots are conveyed from the Melting Shops to the mill- a
distance of some 2 miles in some cases-on special wagons which may
weigh up to 140 tons gross on two four-wheeled bogies; these are
shown in Fig. 5 .
The heaviest single vehicle, however, is a wagon carrying two
open hearth slag ladles, which, on two four-wheeled bogies, may
weigh u p to 180 tons gross, shown in Fig. 6. A maximum load is
five of these to be propelled round a sharp reverse curve up a 1 in 7 0
grade. This quite obviously calls for something fairly large in the
way of shunting locomotives.
The internal traffic within a steelworks is of a very extensive
nature, and this may perhaps be realised if it is understood that for
FIG. 5
INGOT CASTING CAR TRAIN
MELTING SHOP SLAG LADLES
LOCOMOTIVES FOR HEA’I’Y INDUSTRY 613
every ton of finished steel produced, something like five tons of raw
materials have to be used in order to produce it.
The Port Talbot plant is roughly 49 miles long and lies between
the Western Region main line and the sea. The plant consists of
blast furnaces, coke ovens and rolling mills together with three melt-
ing shops making the steel for the mill. The present output is
approximately 35,000 tons of ingots per week and on completion of
the present development scheme it will rise to approximately 48,000
tons per week. There are 90 miles of internal track and, excluding
coking coal and blast furnace raw materials which are discharged by
tipplers and handled by British Railways, the works locomotives
move about 4,000 inwards loaded wagons per week and put out about
1,000 wagons of outwards traffic.
When the present plant expansion is completed, and all steam
locomotives have been replaced by diesels, this plant will be operat-
ing 29 locomotives, 3 shifts per day. Compared with many steelworks
this is on the low side, and in older plants a considerably greater
number of locomojives will be at work.
In the past, most steelworks, like any other big industrial plant,
abounded in bad track, steep gradients and sharp curves. In the
Port Talbot plant, the track is of first-class condition and all tracks
carrying heavy traffic are laid in heavy flat bottom rail of either
109 or 113 Ib. section. No curves are of less than 150 ft. radius, and
a standard of 339 ft. radius is used whenever possible. The general
track layout is good and the track layout incorporates a double track
running the full length of the works, nearly 44 miles long. The value
of this major through artery is very great indeed. Even in gradients,
the Port Talbot plant is fortunate. Many steelworks think nothing
of gradients in the order of 1 in 30 and a gradient of 1 in 80 is
practically regarded as flat. The Port Talbot plant is fortunate in
that the steepest grade is only 1 in 66 and that is of fairly short
length. The main gradients to the slag tips do not exceed 1 in 70
and apart from this, the rail tracks in the rest of the plant are
virtually level. This fact has had a very considerable bearing on
the design and power of locomotives to be employed and this point
will be referred to in greater detail later.
3. THE NATURE OF THE PROBLEM

For the purposes of this paper it must be assumed that the
general argument of rail versus road versus conveyor belt does not
come within the paper’s scope and the object is to ventilate the
respective merits of alternative forms of rail traction. Let it also be
said at the outset that the Author is not considering straight electric
traction. While used quite extensively in some large steelworks on
the Continent, it has never been used to any extent in this country
and a great deal of research would be necessary to produce any
figures for comparative purposes. Let us hope that one day such
an investigation will be made as there might be some advantages,
especially in compact plants where the total cost of overhead struc-
tures would be comparatively low. In a large sprawling plant, the
cost of overhead structures, related to the quantity of traffic handled,

would probably render such a scheme uneconomic.
The three major types of traction to be considered are therefore
conventional steam, high pressure Feared steam and diesel.
4. GENERAL REQUIREMENTS OF ANY LOCOMOTIVE

Before going any further into detail, it may be opportune to
consider the fundamentals required in any locomotive regardless of
the actual type of prime mover.
First, obviously the locomotive must be sufficiently powerful to
handle all work normally expected of it. At the came time, careful
thought must be given to the future; even if the locomotive is only
expected to have a book life of 20 years, much change can take
place in this time and in steelworks there is a strong tendency for
train weights to be continually increasing. It is therefore desirable to
see that any new locomotive is more than on top of its job.
Second, the locomotive must have sufficient weight both for
starting trains and for stopping them. For steelworks use, where
high axleloads are permissible, the tendency should be to incorporate
plenty of weight so that the locomotive may give of its best under
all conditions of rail, even if the sanding gear is out of action, since
sandpipes are easily damaged by scrap lying about. The small extra
quantity of fuel consumed to move the heavier locomotive is more
than justified by the vastly improved traffic performance.
Third, accessibility, both for driver and maintenance staff;
although obvious, it is surprising how even now, locomotives are
built with very poor accessibility to certain parts and builders do not
always reaiise that there is a I ast difference between assembling a new
locomotive with clean components and maintaining the same loco-
motive after it has been in service.
Fourth, vision from the cab. Until very iecently, British
builders were notoriously bad in this respect and even now one sees
diesel locomotives with small porthole windows in an otherwise
empty expanse of cab sheeting. This is presumably a relic of steam
days when one had boilers and coal bunkers to fit in and windows
were a very secondary consideration. Vision is extremely important
within a works where one may have many level crossings and much
road tiaffic. In the Port Talbot plant there are some 85 separate
level crossings, most of them carrying a great deal of road traffic to
say nothing of pedestrians.
With a diesel locomotive there is nothing to prevent a cab from
resembling a mobile greenhouse and this condition is extremely
desirable.
Fifth, low maintenance costs. Again this is obvious, but even
here much could be done to improve the position, both by design
and by new materials. To quote but one example, an old steam
locomotive in the Port Talbot plant was fitted with crankpins haying
a 0.010 in. hard chrome deposit, as well as chrome on piston and
valve rods, slidebars and gudgeon pins. The cost was not high and
the results Downloaded
were fromvery well worth while. There are many other
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examples of modern methods and materials, which although

commonly used in general engineering do not seem to find their way
on to locomotives.
Sixth, the ability to remain in service as long as possible without
maintenance or service. Much has been done in this connection in
recent loccmotive designs. On steam locomotives we find roller
bearings, rocking grates, self-cleaning smokeboxes and proper water
treatment. With diesels it is perfectly possible to design a shunting
locomotive which can remain in service for a fortnight without the
driver even needing an oilcan.
If this question of diesels is taken further, it would appear that
the most important need is to produce a diesel engine which can run
for really long periods without any but the most elementary main-
tenance. Even now, we find certain types of diesel engines in service
which, if the engine maker’s instruction book was rigidly adhered to,
would spend nearly as much time in the shed as on traffic. In
general, makers are improving in this respect, but it is felt that there
is a very pressing need to increase the period between engine over-
hauls; it would seem that at least one Continental builder is finding
the answer to this problem.
5. THE CONVENTIONAL STEAM LOCOMOTIVE

The conventional steam shunting locomotive is at the end of its
development and, despite all its advantages of low first cost and
simplicity, it is uneconomic when compared with other forms of
traction. I t must be said that little has been done by locomotive
builders in the range of their standard industrial locomotives over
many years to improve design. These may seem hard words but in
the main, special detailing only appears to be done if the customer
asks for it, and the customer is seldom a locomotive engineer.
If continued improvements in design and materials had been
incorporated over the past twenty to thirty years, then the present
change-over to diesel might at least have been delayed.
The author is convinced that it is possible to produce an avail-
ability with steam locomotives of modern design that would be the
equal of anything normally gained with diesel. The whole thing
largely boils down to two alternatives-high capital cost and low
running costs with the diesel or low capital cost and high running
costs, chiefly due to the price of coal, with steam locomotives. Never-
theless, to get the greatest possible availability out of steam loco-
motives, it would be necessary to spend a fair sum of money on
running shed installations. For a comparison on main line, the
extensive installations put in by the Norfolk and Western Railroad
in the United States may be referred to.
It may be of interest to review the development of steam loco-
motives in this particular plant.
Up to 1934, all locomotives were very small, with 14 in. x 22 in.
cylinders, 160 lb. boiler pressure and weighing about 28 to 30 tons.
These were of two standard types and were presumably satisfactory
enough under conditions then prevailing. No special features of any
616 JOURNAL O F THE INSTITUTION OF LOCOMOTIVE ENGINEERS
sort were incorporated in them. Nany of these locomotives are still

in service and with the size of train they now have to attempt to
handle, their maintenance costs are very high. Two of these types
are shown in Fig. 7.
In 1934 the first of a larger type of locomotive was produced
having 17 in. x 24 in. cylinders, outside valve gear and weighing some
FIG. 7
14 IN, X 22 IN. 0-4-0 LOCOMOTIVES
44 tons, as shown in Fig. 8 . Unfortunately the 0-4-0 wheel arrange-

ment had to be retained as part of the route these locomotives had
to negotiate included a curve of 80 ft. radius which, owing to the
proximity of many buildings, could not be altered. I t is quite
possible that these locomotives are the largest 0-4-0 industrial loco-
motives in Downloaded
this country; theyat have
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LOCOBIOTIVES FOR HEAVY INDUSTRY 617
FIG. 8
17 IN. X 24 IN. 0-4-0 LOCOMOTIVE-FIRST TYPE, 1934
17 IN. X 24 IN. 0-4-0 LOCOMOTIVE-SECOND TYPE, 1941
an overall length of nearly 28 ft. they tend to pitch badly on anything

but good track.
In 1941 four more locomotives of the same general type were
produced, but the Walschaert’s valve gear was replaced by inside
Stephenson’s gear, on the theory that the outside valve gear was too
susceptible to damage on slag tips, although present conditions are
much better. As far as possible all parts are interchangeable between
the two types. The same cylinders and wheel sets are used and on
the Stephenson fitted locomotives, the outside valve spindle is driven
through a Downloaded
rocker-shaft. Again, the locomotives were built in com-
formity with normal ideas and no special features were included in

their design. These locomotives are shown in Fig. 9.
I n 1948 while it was agreed to put the whole of the new Abbey
Works on to diesel from the start, it was decided to retain steam
traction for the time being in the existing plant. Large locomotives
were needed and so an order was placed for three 0-6-0 locomotives,
having 18 in. x 26 in. cylinders and to incorporate as many modern
features as possible to reduce maintenance and to increase availability.
These locomotives, shown in Fig. 10, were received early in 1951 and
have been in the heaviest service since, with conspicuous success.
Their leading particulars are as follows:-
Cylinders (2) 18 in. x 26 in. outside
Dia. of coupled wheels 4 ft. 3 in.
Boiler pressure 180 lb./sq.in.
Tractive effort at 85% working
presure 25,272 lb.
Heating surface-tubes 855 sq. ft.
firebox 100 sq. ft.
955 sq. ft,
Grate area 18.5 sq. ft.
Bunker capacity 2 tons
Tank capacity 1,500 gall.
Weight in full working order 60 tons
These figures in themselves will appear in no way very different

from any other shunting locomotive, but their special features make
very different reading, as follows:-
( a ) Roller bearings on all axles.
( 6 ) Roller bearings on side rods and on connecting rod big
ends (Fig. 1 1 ) .
( c ) Roller bearings on return crank.
( t l ) Slidebars hardened by the shorterising process.
( c ) Piston valves-an unusual feature on any British shunting
locomotive.
(1) Self-cleaning smoke-boxes.
( g ) Rocking grates and hopper ashpan.
Other features fitted include reflex gauge glasscs, balanced
regulator valve, manganese-steel liners to axleboxes and horn cheeks
and wet sanding gear. Boilers are of all-steel construction.
While not wishing to dwell on this particular type too long, it is
of interest to record that these locomotives have been in heavy traffic
for 24 hours per day for over four years and maintenance has been
extremely low. Four years after delivery, these locomotives can be
seen and heard taking their regular load of 450 tons up a 1 in 70
grade without any trouble and with an absolutely regular beat. At
the time of writing, these locomotives are now being put through
shops for their second tyre turning. The opportunity is being taken
for carrying out some minor repairs, but it is interesting to note that
LOCOMOTIVES FOR HEAVY INDUSTHY 614
FIG. 10
18 I N . X 26 I N . 0-6-0 I,OC:OhIOTIVE-19~~~
FIG. 1 1 ( l o n c c ~ )
0-6-0 LOCOMOTIVE WHEELS A N D MOTION
nothing approaching a general repair has yet been carried out and
not likely to be for some time to come.
The very low rate of wear in valve gear joints is interesting and
can presumably be attributed to the complete absence of knock in
the big end and return crank.
The policy of full diesel conversion has halted any further
steam locomotive development, but certain modifications were carried
out to some of the older types to reduce maintenance. These included
the chrome deposit on crankpins, piston rods and valve spindles
previously referred to. This has been highly successful since the life
of coupling rod bushes has been doubled and the life of piston rod
packing greatly increased.
On one of the small 14 in. x 22 in. locomotives, which are fitted

as standard with the usual half-brasses on side and connecting rods
which cause endless trouble and work, a new set of rods was made
and fitted with solid bushes. Since half-brasses generally needed
closing every month and the bushed rods go for at least 12 months
without attention, the advantages are obvious.
Presumably much of the complaint of obsolete design stems
from the days when locomotives had to be simple because of the
very primitive maintenance facilities available a t customers’ works.
r
This theory has now sure1 gone full circle since the average factory
is now packed with comp icated machinery and most factories have
very efficient organisations to deal with their equipment.
Other improvements were envisaged, such as centralised lubrica-
tion, alloy steel tyres to reduce tyre wear and larger water tanks, but
all such ideas were automatically dropped when the decision was
finally made to abandon steam locomotives.
6. THE GEARED STEAM LOCOMOTIVE
This type of locomotive has been manufactured for a number of
years, but it is only in the last few years that the steel industry has
taken very much interest in this subject. Before this time, a number
of these machines were in use in general industry and also on British
Railways, but prior to the Second World War, it would appear that
the steel industry was well satisfied with the conventional steam loco-
motive, and very little interest had been taken in alternative forms
of traction.
Members will be familiar with the general layout of these loco-
motives. They incorporate a small vertical boiler, feeding steam at
about 275 lb./sq.in. to a high speed vertical steam engine and drive
from this engine is transmitted by gears to the driving wheels.
The chief advantages claimed for this type of locomotive are
that i t has the high availability and low running costs of the diesel
locomotive but at a price very little greater than that of a conven-
tional steam locomotive. These advantages certainly make it appear
a tempting proposition.
A new design of this type of locomotive is now being produced
for two of the Country’s largest steelworks. These locomotives are
built to a much heavier design than that normally used and also are
interesting inasmuch as they are being built for oil firing and it is
understood that this oil firing is to be entirely automatic. This last
point is particularly important as within the steel industry it is almost
universal to employ only one man on the footplate, and therefore the
driver would not be able to give detailed attention to a normal form
of oil firing apparatus.
I t is not proposed in this paper to enter into controversial argu-
ment as to whether this type of locomotive can be operated at a lower
cost than a diesel locomotive, since it would appear that there are
many arguments for both sides. Until this latest design of locomotive
is put into service and has been operating for several years, it will not
be possible for any accurate results to be seen.
Before leaving the subject of the steam locomotive, it may be
interesting Downloaded
to consider the implications of the report of the Beaver
Committee on Air Polution. This committee, in its report, made

certain recommendations which, if put into effect, would virtually
ban the steam locomotive as we know it from most of our industrial
areas.
7. THE DIESEL LOCOMOTIVE

When a prospective user sets out to buy a diesel locomotive he is
faced with a bewildering variety of types, employing different
engines and, more important, different transmissions. It is not
proposed in this paper to enter into any mention of diesel engine
design, since this a specialised subject in itself. From the users’
point of view, it is only necessary to recall the statement previously
made, which was that every effort should be made by diesel engine
builders to produce an engine which needs a minimum of main-
tenance for an extremely extended period. Present experience would
indicate that by far the greater part of locomotive down-time is spent
on routine engine maintenance.
On the question of transmissions, however, he will have to make
his choice by himself. The manufacturers of each type will claim
certain advantages for it and these may be set out as below.
( a ) Diesel Mechanical Transmission
This is usually considered to be the cheapest form of trans-
mission. I t can be built very robustly and will need little attention in
service. The designer will be able to set out his gear ratios to con-
form with the user’s requirements, to ensure that the right power is
available for the job at the right speed. The disadvantages of this
type of transmission are noise and inflexibility. Noise can be a
source of great annoyance to a shunting crew, since frequently the
transmission noise is such that the driver is unable to hear the whistle
signals given by the shunter. If it is proposed to fit radio in the loco-
motive, then transmission noise may well make the use of radio in
the locomotive cab a virtual impossibility. Drivers will tend to
condemn any piece of apparatus that cannot be easily used, and
therefore to use a radio in a noisy cab will be regarded as impossible
under practical conditions.
The inflexibility of a mechanical transmission generally only
becomes apparent when working on gradients. Most steelworks have
many gradients on their railway systems and changing gear when
propelling a train u p a grade is frequently a very difficult operation.
What generally happens is that the driver will start off a t the bottom
of the grade in bottom gear and make no attempt to get out of it; his
train then proceeds to climb the hill at a very slow speed, with the
engine racing a t high speed and with a tremendous noise coming
from the transmission. There are a great number of mechanical trans-
missions on the market; each one will generally have the advantage
over the others in some particular respect and in the most advanced
form the transmission may well become almost automatic. This last
state, however, is usually gained at the expense of some complication
in design, which
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( b ) Diesel Electric Transmission

From the operating point of view this is an ideal transmission.
It involves extremely simple controls and the stepless tractive effort
curve makes it an extremely flexible unit for general duties. It is
probably the quietest form of transmission and is popular with
operating crews.
From the maintenance point of view it has the disadvantage that
two trades of craftsmen are needed for its maintenance. Whereas on
other types of diesel locomotives an electrician is only occasionally
needed for attention to batteries, headlamps and such items, with
diesel electric locomotives the shed staff has to include a considerable
number of full-time electricians. However, experience to date would
seem to show that a diesel electric locomotive, properly serviced and
maintained, only needs major electrical maintenance at long intervals.
To support this statement, it may be noted that none of the diesel
electric locomotives at the Port Talbot plant have yet had any major
electrical maintenance, nor is there any immediate likelihood of that
being required. The experience of many users seems to indicate that
the major electrical components i.e. the generators and traction
motors, are unlikely to need major stripping for at least eight or nine
years. Even then it has frequently been found that the only attention
required is skimming of the commutators, and general cleaning. It
has been said by several authorities that the true life of a well-
designed traction machine is largely unknown. It may even be the
case that the entire locomotive is scrapped as obsolete before any of
the electrical machines have needed complete rebuilding.
( c ) Hydraulic Transmission
The Institution has been fortunate in having a very compre-
hensive paper presented to it recently on this subject* and it is not
intended to attempt to add very much. Sufficient to say that the
claim for the hydraulic transmission is that it offers the ease of
control and the flexibility of the electric transmission but with lower
capital cost; it has also been stated that maintenance is almost
negligible. Reports from Germany, both from the Federal Railways
and industrial users, would indicate that they are more than satisfied
with the hydraulic transmission. Until fairly recently this has
generally been confined to locomotives of less than 1,000 h.p., but
recently several large main line designs have been put into service,
and statements so far made would indicate that their performance is
excellent. As far as this country is concerned, it is too early to be
able to draw any firm comparison between shunting locomotives with
electric and hydraulic transmission. In a few years time this should
be possible, and it is hoped that somebody will undertake this task
in a really frank and unbiased manner.
It will be seen, therefore, that the three major types of trans-
mission may offer some difficulty to the prospective purchaser. Loco-
motives employing all three types of transmission are in daily use in
various steelworks throughout the country and these locomotives are
*“A Mcdern Hydraulic Drive for Locomotives.” R . H. F e t t , J1. Inst of
Locomotive Downloaded
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giving every satisfaction to their users. Nevertheless, it is the Author’s

opinion that the mechanical transmission is not entirely suitable for
general steelworks operation for the reasons referred to. These words
may appear critical, but experience in the Port Talbot plant has
shown that these two disadvantages are very real ones.
Much importance i s made by manufacturers about the overall
efficiencies of various transmissions. This may be of some import-
ance to main-line railways, but from the viewpoint of the industrial
user, if he only realised it, this efficiency business really means
nothing at all. What he wants is a really robust and reliable loco-
motive, which will do its work without fuss or breakdown. The fact
that one type of locomotive may have a fractionally greater fuel
consumption than another is of small importance in the general
reckoning.
8. DIESEL LOCOMOTIVES AT PORT TALBOT
In 1946, The Steel Company of Wales found themselves in an
unusual position in that they were proposing to build an entirely new
works and that a substantial fleet of locomotives had to be purchased
to operate within it. The decision was made at the outset that this
new works should be operated with diesel locomotives alone. Calcula-
tions showed that for certain duties within the works, a very large
locomotive, judging by then existing industrial standards, would be
required and it was realised that locomotives of about 600 h.p.
would be needed.
The following locomotives were therefore ordered:-
(a) 660 h.p. Diesel Electric Locomotive
In 1946 there were no standard locomotives of this size being
made in this country: in order to secure quick delivery and a reason-
able price, five 660 h.p. diesel electric locomotives were bought from
the American Locomotive Company and this locomotive is shown in
Fig. 12. These locomotives were delivered in 1950 and are an
absolutely standard product of the builders having been built and
used in great numbers in the United States with every satisfaction.
Some criticism was voiced at that time that locomotives were
purchased from overseas for a British steelworks; the only alternative
if they had been bought in Great Britain would have been a brand
new design at very extended delivery and at a price considerably
greater than that paid for the American locomotives.
These locomotives weigh 90 tons, have a starting tractive effort
of 57,000 lb. and a maximum speed of 60 miles per hour, although
such a speed is obviously not needed. At the time of writing, on
average, each locomotive has now run about 32,500 hours with
every satisfaction and no general repairs have yet been undertaken.
I t was thought at first that their power and size were somewhat in
excess of requirements, but recent developments have taken place
which need the full power of the locomotive.
( h ) 480 h.p. 0-6-0 Diesel Electric Locomotive
In 1948 it became necessary to order further locomotives;
financial conditions prevailing
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CALIFORNIA prevented
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624 JOURNAL OF T H E INSTITUTION O F LOCOMOTIVE E N G I N E E R S
of any more American locomotives, and therefore orders had to be
placed in this country. It was realised at that time that it would not
be necessary to order further locomotives of; the size and power of the
American machines and a snap requirement was made for a
continuous tractive effort of 10,000 lb. at 10 miles an hour. Four
0-6-0 diesel electric locomotives of 480 h.p. were subsequently
ordered and these locomotives went into service in early 1 9 5 1 ; one of
these locomotives is shown in Fig. 13. These locomotives weigh 58
tons, have a starting tractive effort of 34,000 lb. and have a maximum
speed of 20 miles per hour with double reduction traction motors; at
the time of writing each of these locomotives has completed 26,000
running hours. These locomotives have given good service but suffer
by comparison with their American counterparts since they were a
new type developed off the drawing board, whereas the American
machines were standard locomotives which had been built in quantity
for many years. In fairness to the British builders it must be stated
that these four locomotives were reasonably typical of British loco-
motive development at that period.
( c ) 165 h.p. Diesel Mechanical Locomotive
The first diesel locomotives to be introduced were four small 165
h.p. locomotives with mechanical transmission of the SLM type and
one of these locomotives is shown in Fig. 14. These locomotives,
delivered in 1 9 4 8 were used throughout the whole construction period
of the plant and are now in production duty. Their performance is
very good, but it has been obvious for some time that locomotives of
this size are far too small for normal steelworks duty. These loco-
motives weigh 28 tons and have a starting tractive effort of 14,200
Ib. in bottom gear and a maximum speed of 16 miles an hour. At the
time of writing, these locomotives have averaged about 29,000 work-
ing hours apiece. The small size of these locomotives points out the
mistake of merely comparing starting tractive efforts between steam
and diesel locomotives, a pitfall into which a number of industrial
users have fallen.
All these locomotives have given considerable satisfaction and
are working three shifts per day for seven days per week. The normal
maintenance cycle is that all locomotives are expected to remain in
service for 14 days at a stretch, apart from such minor attention as
refuelling and sanding.
When further developments made more locomotives necessary,
it was decided that sufficient experience had been gained to demand
locomotives that were really suitable for the job and it was thought
that two types could be produced which between them should cover
+- FIG. 12 ( t o p )
660 H.P. BO-BO DIESEL ELECTRIC LOCOMOTIVE-1950
FIG. 13 ( c e n t r e )
480 H.P. 0-6-0 DIESEL ELECTRIC LOCOMOTIVE-195I
FIG. 14 ( b o t t o m )
165 H.P. 0-4-0 DIESEL MECHANICAL LOCOMOTIVE-1948
the whole range of traffic operation within the works. It was a t first
suggested to make only one type, but since standardisation on one
type only would mean that all locomotives would be large and there-
fore expensive, it was decided to make two types in order to reduce
the capital outlay. These two new types will be described at some
length in a later section.
9. THE ECONOMICS OF LOCOMOTIVE OPERATION
The main items of expenditure incurred in locomotive operation
are:-
( a ) Wages.
( b ) Fuel.
( c ) Lubricants and consumable stores.
( d ) Maintenance.
(e) Depreciation and capital charges.
In the following section, no further reference will be made to
wages, as these are variable and each user must add these for
himself.
The diesel locomotive will show very substantial savings in fuel
costs over a conventional steam locomotive-in the region of some
5JOd per hour- and there are also savings on lubricants and consum-
able stores.
The cost of maintenance is much more difficult to assess. A
modern diesel locomotive, when compared with a steam locomotive
of ordinary design without any special features incorporated to
reduce maintenance, will prove to be far more economical in main-
tenance, always provided that an efficient and adequate diesel loco-
motive maintenance organisation has been set up. O n the other hand,
if a steam locomotive is built with special features to reduce main-
tenance, e.g. roller bearings on axle boxes and side rods, manganese
liners on horn cheeks, then the maintenance cost of steam locomotives
can be very substantially reduced. Adequate boiler water treatment
will also yield substantial maintenance economies for comparatively
small outlay. Apart from differences due to age, no comparison can
generally be made between diesel and steam maintenance until the
diesel locomotive has run for a fair number of years, to include at
least the cost of one complete overhaul. This stage has not yet been
reached at Port Talbot, and therefore, when preparing estimates of
maintenance costs, care has always been taken to allow for main-
tenance costs somewhat higher than those at present being incurred.
At first sight, depreciation and capital charges form one of the
largest obstacles to diesel conversion and obviously, the saving
achieved in actual running costs must at least balance the increase in
depreciation and capital charges. Very roughly it can be said that
a diesel locomotive suitable for steelworks duty will cost up to twice
as much as a normal steam locomotive of ordinary design. Returning
to maintenance costs however, it must be appreciated that a really
modern steam locomotive, with all possibIe refinements to reduce
maintenance, will cost considerably more and therefore the difference
in depreciation and capital charges decreases. Maintenance expendi-
ture on steam locomotives can therefore be saved at the expense of

increased capital cost, or vice versa.
A comparison of operating costs of steam and diesel locomotives
favours the diesel locomotive very substantially. If these costs are
subsequently based on actual working hours, then the difference
becomes even more marked due to the greater working time per shift
that can be achieved with the diesel locomotive.
At the Port Talbot plant, the all-in operating cost, excluding
drivers’ and shunters’ wages, is about 20/ l l d per hour for steam loco-
motives and 12/11d an hour for diesels; these costs include all normal
overheads but do not include depreciation and capital charges.
Further, these costs are based on manned hours i.e. 8 hours per shift.
If these costs are made proportional to the actual useful working
hours of about 5a hours per shift for steam locomotives, and 6% for
diesel, these figures then become 31 / 1Id per effective hour for steam
locomotives and 15/4d per effective hour for diesels; there is therefore
a difference of some 16/7d per effective hour in favour of the diesel.
Useful working hours may be defined as the time available actuallv
to haul trains. They do not include shift changes, mealtimes or time
spent in light running to and from central amenities block. Examina-
tion of depreciation figures, combined with interest on capital, shows
that a modern diesel electric locomotive will carry an hourly stand-
ing charge of approximately 5/0d. A steam locomotive of fairly
good design will carry a charge of about 310d. It will be seen how-
ever that the difference of 2/0d per hour is very adequately covered
by the overall operating saving that can be achieved with diesel.
The actual pros and cons for any conversion project from steam
to diesel will obviously vary for any individual works. In the case of
the Port Talbot plant, where already half the works is being operated
by diesel, and where diesel maintenance facilities already exist, the
case is clear-cut and the only extra capital expenditure involved is on
new locomotives themselves. The fact that many steam locomotives
are old and small and in need of replacement anyway, merelv
strengthens the case for diesel conversion.
At the other extreme, another works may have a steam loco-
motive fleet composed entirely of large, modern and efficient machines
and here the case for a quick change is not nearly so good, as the
capital cost will be high and the nett financial savings considerably
less; they may be, however, substantial enough to consider a plan
for a long term changeover spread over a number of years, but in the
initial stages there will be very little overall saving, due to the
necessity of providing a second maintenance organisation. For the
first few years, in fact, there might be no saving at all; as the number
of diesel locomotives increased, however, the saving would rapidly
become more obvious until eventually the number of diesels would be
such that a point would be reached where the long term plan should
be changed to a short term one involving the rapid and total elimina-
tion of aI! the remaining steam locomotives.
The total savings that can be thus effected can be listed as
follows:- Downloaded from jil.sagepub.com at UNIV CALIFORNIA SAN DIEGO on February 27, 2016
( a ) Complete elimination of all steam locomotive maintenance

and servicing facilities.
( b ) Substantial saving in fuel cost.
( c ) Reduction in total number of locomotives required, due to
the greater availability of the diesel locomotive.
( d ) Saving in maintenance cost, both per locomotive and also
due to there being a smaller number involved.
(e) Some reduced expenditure on permanent way cleaning and
maintenance.
Diesel experience so far at Port Talbot has been confined only
to one section of the plant which was started up on diesel traction
right from the beginning; no experience is therefore available to show
the saving that can be effected by changing from steam to diesel
traction.
Nevertheless, a scheme was recently authorised for the complete
elimination of all steam locomotives on the other sections of the plant.
Before authority could be gained, very careful examination had to
be made of the costs involved. This examination was made very
thoroughly and carefully, and nothing was included in the estimate
that might be regarded in any way as biased or optimistic. The
result was to show that for the expenditure of some S250,OOQ on new
locomotives, an annual saving in operating costs of approximately
S75,OOO could be achieved. With depreciation and capital charges,
this should still represent a nett saving of some S50,OOO per annum.
10. MAINTENANCE
I t is not proposed to dwell upon maintenance at great length in
this paper for two reasons. First, it is thought that the subject of
maintenance of diesel locomotives cannot really be commented upon
until a number of locomotives have been running for a period of at
least 10 years in order that full experience may be gained of major
overhauls. Secondly, for a personal reason the Author does not
wish to go into maintenance in detail since he is not directly concerned
with this side of it and he is hoping that those who are concerned,
members of this Institution, may one day read a paper before the
Institution which should be of very great interest indeed.
Briefly however, all maintenance of diesel locomotives upon the
plant is done on a full system of planned maintenance. The basis of
the plan is the fortnightly inspection referred to and all other inspec-
tions are based on multiples of this. Locomotive usage is measured
in terms of engine hours, rather than miles as is done on British
Railways. This is done because mileage within a steel plant is an
extremely variable factor, and largely independent of the amount of
work being done by the locomotive. I t may be said that normal
maintenance problems have not been large and in general our
experience is that the diesel electric locomotive is a machine which
will give long and reliable service with low maintenance costs.
One point may be of interest in connection with design. The
double bogie arrangement of the American locomotives has shown
tremendousDownloaded
advantage as regards wear of tyres. These locomotives,
put into service in 1950, are now just becoming due for their first
tyre turning. The 0-6-0 locomotives, delivered a year later, are now
having their second tyre turning and it is thought that the extra cost
of the double bogie locomotive will very rapidly repay itself in
lower maintenance charges.
The major maintenance headache has been a most unusual one
and it may therefore be of interest to members to recount it in some
detail. The trouble is corrosion of cylinder liners from the water
side, to such an extent in some cases that water has penetrated right
through a liner in less than two years. The town water supply in
the Port Talbot area is naturally soft, but no trouble in this direction
was particularly expected. It had been known for some time that
this naturally soft water did lead to a certain amount of corrosion in
other applications but it was never expected that trouble of this
magnitude would arise within the diesel engines.
I t appears that no British diesel engine manufacturer normally
specifies anything very special in the way of cooling water: if he is
told that the cooling water is to be supplied from the local source of
drinking water, then almost certainly he will be perfectly happy with
this suggestion.
When the American locomotives were delivered, their service
engineer recommended a chromate treatment similar to that which
was standard on the American railroads. This treatment consists of
a p H correction with sodium carbonate and then an addition oi
FIG. 15
CORRODED CYLINDER LINER
sodium chromate, which has the effect of providing a protective film

over the whole of the water surface.
I n 1953, one of the British 0-6-0's was taken to shed after the
driver had reported a peculiar noise upon restarting the engine after
a meal break. On examination a t shed it was found that one
connecting rod had bent and in bending had broken a piece out of the
cylinder liner skirt. Further examination showed that this liner had
been very heavily corroded on the water side and in one place had
corroded right through, with the result that cooling water had been
allowed to enter the cylinder while the engine was at rest, and when
the engine started, the trouble mentioned was caused. One of these
liners is shown in Fig. 15.
Examination of other locomotives showed a similar condition to
be developing, not only on the British locomotives but also on the
American locomotives on which chromate treatment had been used
from the outset.
Investigation suggested that the chromate treatment, although
widely used in America, is not entirely satisfactory. I t depends
entirely for its efficiency upon the chromate concentration being
always held above a certain figure. It was always known that it was
undesirable for the chromate concentration to fall below this figure,
but it was not realised at the outset that apparently a low concentra-
tion can cause more trouble than if no chromate is used at all, since
electrolytic action tends to take place between the base iron of the
cylinder liner and the chromate itself at a greatly accelerated speed.
In addition there is always the possibility that the chromate lining
on the cylinder metal may actually be broken down by mechanical
action caused by impingement of the cooling water. I t is most
evident that the major seat of corrosion lies immediately opposite
the cooling water inlet, with a secondary corrosion a t 180" to it and
tertiary points of corrosion a t the intervening 90" points.
Various alternatives have been tried to effect a solution. Water
treatment of various sorts has been tried and in addition, cylinder
liners have been sprayed with various types of coatings, including a
spray of 11% chromium and 9% nickel. In addition, one experiment
has been carried out by coating the liners with baked silicones ,and it
is proposed to put a hard chrome deposit on another set.
It must be admitted that the solution to this problem is not yet
in sight and the assistance of many outside organisations has been
sought. While it appears that treating the liners is having some
effect, trouble is now being experienced with corrosion of the engine
block. It would be most interesting to hear whether any members
have experienced similar trouble and whether any form of preventive
action has been found.
To sum up this section on maintenance therefore, it may be said
that it is not considered that it is yet the time to produce an exhaus-
tive survey of our maintenance problems. I t may be said quite truth-
fully that maintenance has been light and in no way different from
what was expected, other than this one extremely difficult problem
of water corrosion, which has bedevilled our whole maintenance
organisation; as far as we know, no trouble of this sort on locomotives
has been experienced anywhere else in this country. It is most

interesting to note that the only locomotives affected have been those
with electric transmission; a lot of diesel plant is employed through-
out the works on various duties but no cases of this sort have been
reported anywhere else.
It has been realised that if diesel locomotives are to receive
proper maintenance, then proper facilities must be provided for this
to be done. Accordingly, a new diesel locomotive shed has been built
and brought into use and this is constructed on very similar lines to
many installations found in the United States. I t will be seen that
three working levels are provided to secure the best accessibility to
the locomotive. Installed lighting is of a high order and everything
has been done to make the maintenance men’s work as easy as
possible. A 6-ton overhead crane is provided over the two centre bays
and fitters’ and electricians’ workshops, together with messing
facilities and stores are provided at the back of the shed. Fig. 16
shows an interior view of the shed.
FIG. 16
NEW DIESEL LOCOMOTIVE DEPOT
11. NEW LOCONMOTIVES

Further development in the works made it necessary to purchase
further locomotives. I t was considered none of our existing types
were really suitable for perpetuation since further American loco-
motives were unavailable and that the ideas of British designers
had improved enormously in the last four or five years. Accordingly,

it was decided to introduce two new types, one of which should be
capable of all normal shunting within the works on level track and
the second type to be sufficiently large to undertake any known duty
or duty likely to arise in the foreseeable future, having regard to
existing train weights, to existing gradients and to future develop-
ments in both directions. I t was decided that both types should be
diesel electric and that the small locomotive should be of approxi-
mately 300 h.p. and the larger locomotive of approximately 500.
Diesel electric transmission was chosen because the existing main-
tenance qrganisation had been built up on that basis and much useful
experience had been gained. Even were other forms of transmission
employed for the new locomotives it would still have been necessary
to retain the electrical maintenance side and therefore it was thought
best to carry on with what was already in service.
Certain cardinal points were laid down in the enquiries. These
were that:-
( a ) Vision from the cab should be as perfect as possible.
( b ) The small locomotive should be of the 0-4-0 wheel arrange-
ment, to weigh about 45 tons, and of about 300 h.p.
( c ) The large locomotive should be of a double bogie arrange-
ment, weight about 70 tons, and of about 500 h.p.
( d ) As far as possible, the same components should be used on
the two machines to secure a maximum interchangeability of parts.
( e ) All weight should be built into the machine itself and not
added in the form of ballast. ( I n steelworks shunting duty, the
going is often rough and arduous and therefore it seemed logical to
take advantage of this weight by building it into the locomotive
structure itself).
(f) The locomotive should be capable of traversing a 150-ft.
radius curve with train.
( g ) The locomotives to be built to a limit of 13 ft. 3 in. maximum
height and 9 ft. 8 in. width. A shunter’s walkway to be provided
all round.
( h ) The cab layout to be arranged for dual-control: the interior
of the cab to be fully insulated against noise and heat, and of a
thoroughly good finish generally.
Orders were placed accordingly and these two types of loco
motives are now both in duty.
The small locomotive has a six-cylinder supercharged engine
developing 300 h.p. at 1200 r.p.m. In full working order the loco-
motive weighs 44 tons, and has a maximum speed of 28 miles per
hour. A speed of this order was deliberately chosen, as the 20 m.p.h.
maximum speed of some of the earlier locomotives was found to be
too low under certain conditions of light running. The starting
tractive effort is 24,000 lb., with a continuous rating of 8,000 lb. at 9
miles per hour. Two traction motors are used, connected in parallel.
This locomotive is shown in Fig. 17. It will be seen that it has been
possible to keep the height of the engine casing to a minimum and
that therefore the visibility from the cab is of a very high order.
FIG. 17
300 H.P. DIESEL ELECTRIC LOCOMOTIVE-1955
FIG.18
VIEW FROM DRIVER’S SEATED POSITION--800 H.P. LOCOMOTIVE
Fig. 18 shows the forward view from the driver’s position when
seated. These locomotives have proved themselves fully capable of
handling all general shunting duties with trains of 800-900 tons, and
have become extremely popular with all operating personnel.
The larger locomotive employs a six-cylinder non-supercharged
engine developing 515 h.p. at 875 r.p.m. In full working order the
locomotive weighs 70 tons, with the same maximum speed of 28 miles
per hour. The starting tractive effort is 47,000 lb., with a continuous
rating of 16,000 lb. at 74 miles per hour. The four traction motors,
with double reduction gearing, are connected in series-parallel. This
locomotive is shown in Fig. 19. The traction motors and gears are
standard to both types, as well as wheels, control gear and other
parts between the two locomotives. The engines are not standard
since it was felt that standardisation for its own sake would of
necessity impair the operational performance and maintenance
organisation; one would either have a very bulky engine on the small
locomotive, or about 12 cylinders on the large locomotive, both
undesirable features. As in the case of the small locomotive the 70
tons weight of the big locomotive has been built into the machine,
and as a result, a very robust locomotive indeed has been made
available.
FIG. 19
515 H.P. DIESEL ELECTRIC LOCOMOTIVE-1955
Further works developments have taken place since these loco-

motives were ordered and it has been found that the large locomotive
will not be fully capable of performing all duties now to be tackled.
Further orders have recently been placed for more locomotives: more
of the 300 h.p. type have been ordered, basically unchanged apart
from very slight detail alterations, but it has been decided to order
large locomotives of size and weight equivalent to the early American
machines i.e. to have a continuous rating of 600 h.p., in a locomotive
weighing approximately tons.
90at UNIV
Downloaded from jil.sagepub.com This
CALIFORNIA may
SAN DIEGO seem
on February 27, 2016 somewhat
extravagant but one duty to be performed is to propel a train of five

heavy slag wagons, weighing some 850 tons gross, up a gradient of 1
in 70, round a 339 ft. radius curve; this indeed presents quite a
problem to any shunting locomotive. Obviously by means of suitable
traction motor gearing, a locomotive of lower horse-power could be
used to do this duty, but this would mean a very slow speed up the
incline, and it is the intention to try to move traffic smartly with loco-
motives running well within their capabilities. It must be remembered
that in such a plant as a steelworks, the traffic department is a service
and the cost of that service is comparatively small when compared
with the total cost of production. Efficient traffic service can mean an
efficient works, which all leads to increased production; the slight
increase in traffic charges through having machines of proved
capability is well worth the slight extra capital expenditure involved.
17. CONCLUSION
This paper has tried to set out some brief details of locomotive
conditions in but one of the country’s steelworks. Similar conditions
will apply, not only in other steelworks but in many other heavy
industries, all of whom will be called upon from time to time to
consider the purchase of new locomotives. It will be seen that the
choice offered them is truly bewildering and in many cases they are
very hard put to be able to make a true and realistic decision. The
Steel Company of Wales has held that a fleet of this size necessitates
the employment of a fully trained and qualified locomotive engineer;
in many works the practice still exists of locomotive maintenance
being a part-time job for the general works maintenance engineers.
This may have been all right in steam days, but in days of diesel
traction this just will not do, and it is essential to have a thoroughly
qualified and trained man to look after them. This engineer being
available, the customer is much more capable of assessing the various
merits of different types of locomotives being offered him and less
susceptible, with all deference, to manufacturers’ sales propaganda.
Certain locomotive manufacturers in this country are now adopt-
ing the excellent policy of having a number of their locomotives
available for prolonged demonstration at customers’ works! This
practice cannot be too highly recommended as the prospective
purchaser tends to gain a great deal of information, and the builder
who is fully confident of his own product has nothing whatsoever to
fear by such a demonstration; rather the reverse, since if his loco-
motive is really what he claims it to be, then such a demonstration is
almost sure to lead to an order. The Author feels that it would be
of the greatest benefit if this practice were extended and every manu-
facturer should be able to produce one of his standard locomotives
for a month’s trial by a prospective customer at very short notice;
the slight extra expenditure in this direction would be well worth-
while, both in promoting sales and in building up good customer
relations.
The Author has had some criticism of the outlook of certain
builders with regard to service after sales. It is sometimes found that
once a locomotive is installed and has been running for some six
months to a year, a manufacturer tends to lose all interest. However,

it is true to say that the attitude to diesel locomotives in this respect
appears to be much better than it was with steam and it is hoped that
this practice will continue.
Another practice which seems to be disappearing with the advent
of diesel traction is that builders’ standard designs are no longer the
“cheap and nasty” ones that they used to be, which was commented
upon at the beginning of this paper. Certain manufacturers now offer
roller bearing axleboxes, for example, as part of their standard
design; they would probably be most hurt if a customer suggested
that he might save a little money by fitting plain bearings instead.
This is a good thing-the Author has felt for some time that loco-
motive builders should start to get more of the outlook of, shall it be
said, the automobile industry. Here, constant endeavour is made to
improve-the machine all the time and incorporate every latest form of
new gadget, both for labour saving as well as greatly improved
performpce. The American locomotive industry has shown the
pointer in this direction; their diesel locomotives are probably the
finest to be found in the world, with modifications being constantly
introduced to keep them in the front rank of progress.
I t is hoped that this paper may have brought the industrial
users’ viewpoint to notice. The users’ position is changing; he is
becoming more knowledgeable in locomotive matters daily and
expects better products than those served up to him in the old days.
Efficient traffic service is vital to every modern industry and efficient
traffic service can only spring from efficient, modern and thoroughly
reliable locomotives.
DISCUSSION
Mr, K. J. Cook, O.B.E. ( T h e President) said that Mr.
Wordsworth had presented the Institution with a very interesting
paper. During the last day or two members would have received a
letter which the President had addressed to them all calling attention
to the need of the Institution for the presentation of Papers, and in
that letter it had been pointed out that some of the subjects which
might appear commonplace could be developed into valuable contn-
butions to the work of the Institution. He did not think that there
could have been a more fitting example of this than in the Paper which
had been presented by Mr. Wordsworth. Looking at the title-
‘‘ Locomothes for Heavy Industry ”-how many of them could have
thought that such an excellent Paper could be presented on the
subject? The Author was certainly t o be congratulated on the way in
which he had so meticulously analysed, investigated and then
developed his points, not only as a record but as a practical
achievement.
He hoped that members would take this Paper, its theme and the
development of it, well to heart. He would like that to be empha-
sised, particularly to the younger members, when Mr. Wordsworth
presented the Paper
Downloaded to the Centres.
He thought that the moral was this, that there were many
members who could look around for subjects which, properly
developed, would be of intense interest to the Institution.
He thought that his words would have summed up the feelings
of all present, namely, that Mr. Wordsworth had presented a most
excellent and valuable Paper. He wished to express to Mr.
Wordsworth the very grateful thanks of the Institution and of all
the members present for the great trouble he had taken, the clarity
with which hc had presented the Paper, and above all the most
valuable and interesting information contained therein.
The vote of thanks was carried by acclamation.
Mr. W. B. G. Collis, M.B.E. (M.) who opened the discussion,
said that for nearly 100 years the steam locomotive had been
unchallenged in the field of application to heavy industry, and it
was perhaps to the credit of all the specialist firms concerned that they
had been so successful in meeting the demands of industry in general
for so long. Indeed, it was only the post-war change in economic
factors which had caused anyone else to look over the gate into this
particular field at all, and perhaps some of the diesel and the electrical
interests who had looked over the gate and who had attempted to
enter the field had done so with a certain lack of reverence and so
had met with little response. Perhaps they had forgotten that in
that field were now to be found men who were intensely practical,
keenly devoted to solving their very special problems. The Author’s
Paper demonstrated fulIy the necessity of treating that field with due
respect.
I n these humanitarian days, the most important unit mounted
in a locomotive was perhaps the driver himself. He expected much,
and nowadays he seemed to get it. However, conversely, too much
must not be expected of him, and this probably applied particularly
to heavy industry, because the driver had so frequently graduated
from the position of shunter.
Simplicity of control for the frequent starts, stops and reversals
of the industrial duty cycle, reasonable comfort, good vision, freedom
from noise and vibration-all these were now becoming decisive
factors.
Here he wished to underline what the Author had implied-that
electric transmission had done much. He would like to say that i t
was capable of doing more. For example, rheostatic braking was a
possible refinement which might still further ease the driver’s burden
in holding or stopping awkward loads on the severe gradients
encountered.
The Author’s comment on electrical maintenance, namely, that
when electrical transmission was adopted a considerable number of
fitters was required as compared with other forms of transmission-
where there was one electrician occasionally-seemed to be a little bit
exaggerated, especially in relation to the supreme compliment which
the Author paid to electric traction machinery as possibly outliving
the rest of the locomotive. The excellent shop (Fig. 16) which the
Author’s Company had erected had shown little evidence of extensive
electrical maintenance.
638 JOURNAL O F THE INSTITUTION O F LOCOMOTIVE ENGINEERS
The Author, in limiting the Paper to his own experience, had

passed quickly over straight electric traction; but surely the long cycle,
the heavy loads, the gradients and the essentially higher availablity, all
of which had demonstrated the effect on diesel power, were still more
ideal for the use of straight electric power, where sites permitted-and
there were many more such sites than was perhaps generally realised
ir, this country. The use of powered cars, such as transfer cars,
scale cars, ladle cars, all electrically driven, was worthy of note.
Finally, the suggestion in the Author’s conclusion about the
possible adoption of the automobile industry’s outlook and practice,
and perhaps design, deserved a good deal more thought. For
example, the use of high-Teed low-powered diesels in road transport
had proved attractive on account of reliability, flexibility to different
powers, the extensive service facilities which now existed all over the
country, and the wide availability of fitters who were skilled with
this type of unit.
These were a few thoughts that had occurred to him, and he came
back to where he had started by saying that this was indeed a most
fascinating field.
Mr. R. C. Bond (Past-President) said that he joined issue with
the previous speaker, Mr. Collis, on one small point. Mr. Collis
had suggested that the steam locomotive had been unchallenged for
100 years in heavy industry; but he thought it was perhaps not unfair
to suggest that railways were a form of heavy industry, and for 25
years they had been giving very close and careful attention to the
merits of diesel locomotives for the sort of work, particularly shunting,
to which the Author had referred.
He thought that the Author would agree that his problem was
very much more than one of shunting alone. He had, in fact, four
and a half miles of main line from one end of the works to the other
and he had 90 miles of track in total. The Author was faced with
a great deal of what the railways called trip working. No doubt this
justified the very wise conclusions which the Author had reached
about introducing in all his locomotives details of modern design to
reduce his maintenance costs. There was no doubt too that there
was sound common sense in what the Author had said on page 623,
where he placed the idea of the last per cent. or so of thermal efficiency
in its right perspective.
What the Author wanted, and indeed what all of them wanted,
was a locomotive that would start working on Monday and keep going
until the following Saturday night. Even with conventional steam
locomotives, British Railways were able to keep shunting locomotives
ig traffic for a whole week.
The Author had paid the steam locomotive quite a compliment
in saying that, with good design, its availability could be as good as
that of the diesel; but personally he thought it was necessary to
qualify that by saying that the Author was probably speaking of
availability on a daily basis. If one calculated availability on an
hourly basis, there was no doubt that a good diesel, for this sort of
work, would have the advantage every time. After all, with the
steam locomotive it jil.sagepub.com
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at UNIV CALIFORNIA to clean
SAN DIEGO on Februarythe fire, to take
27, 2016
water, and so on; and if the diesel engine would keep running, then
undoubtedly it was possible for a diesel locomotive to do more effective
work in a given time. But, again, there was the vital question of
Gtilisation. He had no doubt that in the Margam Works the
locomotives were used day and night all round the clock, and of course
those were the circumstances under which they could show up so well.
He had been sorry to hear the Author advocate the introduction
of the latest “gadgets” on new locomotives. If there was one thing
more than another which could adversely affect availability it was
the “gadget,” which is in quite a different category from the fully
developed refinement. Simplicity has much to commend it in
locomotives of any type and if this point was given due weight,
diesel locomotives-which were expensive in first cost-could be
relied on to give a good account of themselves.
Col. W. L. Topham, O.B.E. (M.) said that the Steel Company

01 Wales were very fortunate to have the Author on their staff, as
he was a competent locomotive engineer and had written a very
interesting paper.
It was perhaps precisely the Author’s knowledge of his subject
that had enabled him to appreciate the value of modern practices
and details and obtained the corresponding benefits from them.
For that reason, he must break a small lance with the Author
over his general stricture of locomotive builders on pages 615 and 636.
In so many cases industrial users had in the past been inclined to
tell builders, “Give us exactly the same as we had before; it has given
good service”; and they had been inclined to frown on any new idea
which departed from what was already familiar to the engineer or
foreman in charge, who was not often a locomotive specialist. Or,
conversely, the cost of the refinement had caused an adverse decision,
and, of course, the customer was always right. However, with the
rapid extension of diesel practice for industrial purposes, this phase
was doubtless now being superseded.
To turn to a few details, he was not clear if the latest steam
locomotives of the Steel Company of Wales were superheated or not.
So many shunting locomotives in this country, both main line and
industrial, had been saturated that he had often wondered whether
a proper evaluation of the use of superheated steam for this purpose
had ever been made by users and what the result had been. On
the oversea railway with which he had been connected, all the
more modern shunting power had been superheated.
In the list of modern refinements, he did not see steam reversing
mentioned. This seemed to be a neglected detail in steam shunters,
particularly as reversing occurred more frequently in shunting than
on any other service.
In those industries where steam power would still be used for
some time to come, the Beaver Report would be attracting much
attention. It might well be that oil firing might be the answer in
this case, and the organisation with which he was connected was
giving particular attention to this matter for industrial purposes.
With the frequent
Downloaded fromalterations during
jil.sagepub.com at UNIV shunting
CALIFORNIA toFebruary
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2016 of the
640 JOURNAL OF THE INSTITUTION O F LOCOMOTIVE ENGINEERS
regulator, perhaps an apparatus combining blower, atomiser, firing

valve and damper on the lines of Mr. P. C. Saccaggio’s arrangement
might be the answer to avoid multiplication of movements by the
fireman.
Surely the Author’s remarks about cab vision did not apply
on today’s diesel power produced in this country, and Mr. Words-
worth’s ideal in this respect was certainly what every builder was
striving after.
The Author made an undoubted point about water treatment
for diesel cooling water. He was aware of the advice booklet
issued by certain American builders, and he was of the firm opinion
that British builders should do likewise and not leave it to the
customer to consult the water treatment people when trouble
occurred. Perhaps a solution of one of the tannin extracts would
assist in solving the particular problem the Author mentioned.
Finally, he was a little surprised to infer on page 621 that
considerable time was required by the Author’s diesels for engine
maintenence. As with the B.B.C., one dare not advertise in these
august precincts, but he was prepared to indicate to the Author
engines on diesel mechanical and diesel electric shunters that could
almost be forgotten about, and to back up this statement with figures.
Mr. M. W. T. Rees (V.) said with regard to the choice of different

stroke or type of engines for two types of locomotives where one was
approximately twice the horsepower of the other, that he believed that
the advantages of having identical equipment from the point of view
of the complete power units, as well as the motors and control gear,
and also the improved visibility obtainable from a centre cab
locomotive by using those two power units, should quite easily
outweigh any disadvantages of having twice the number of cylinders
in the larger locomotive, particularly as the larger number of cylinders
would be contained in two separate engines; and since all the power
units of the fleet would then be identical, with a large fleet such
as that of the Steel Company of Wales, it would be reasonable to
carry complete service power units because complete engine generator
sets of three-point mounted type could be quickly changed to allow
the maintenance to be carried out under the best possible conditions,
without withdrawing the locomotive from service for a long period.
In those circumstances multiple-unit operation of 300 and 600
h.p. locomotives would be a very simple matter to cater for and might
be very useful for occasional heavy loads and as a half-way measure
when further developments came along necessitating heavier powers.
Regarding cylinder liner corrosion, he wondered whether the
possibility of electrolytic action due to shaft currents had been
investigated. If there were any resultant ampere/turns left round
the shaft of a generator due to the internal connections, quite
considerable voltages were induced in the shaft due to the load
current. Unless steps had been taken to insulate the bearing housing
under those conditions, one could get quite heavy circulating currents
through the baseplate and the shaft and possibly back through the
engine, which under suitable electrolytic conditions with the local
water might cause considerable corrosion. The taking care of shaft

currents is standard practice in all marine diesel generator sets where
electrolytic problems are always present, and specified conditions are
laid down in Lloyds Rules from the point of view of preventing
circulating currents.
Mr. G . V. Davy (A.M.), in carrying on from the point where
Mr. Rees had concluded his remarks on the corrosion of cylinder
liners, said he, too, had thought at first that this might be due to
circulating currents in the shaft in that the trouble was apparently
confined only to the diesel electric locomotives; but in the Paper
the Author said that when the cylinder was coated with a chrome
nickel coating, the reverse happened-the crankcase corroded. He
felt that this straight away pointed to the fact that it was
electrolytic corrosion. I t was precisely what one would expect.
He felt that initially the different materials of the liner and the
crankcase caused the current to flow internally from the liner
through the liquid to the crankcase, so corroding the liner. When
one coated the liner with a coating predominantly chrome, one got
exactly the reverse, and one would expect the crankcase to corrode.
He could think of two possible ways of overcoming this,
assuming that this was what happened. One was to apply a voltage
of, say, 2 to 5 volts between all the liners and the crankcase. This
might sound a little far-fetched, but it worked in condensers at power
stations, where they had similar problems. Another alternative
that he would offer was a solution which, he believed, was used in
the shipbuilding industry, where one got electrolytic corrosion in
the stern of a vessel. If the steel hull and bronze propeller were
immersed in salt, a similar thing could happen, and it was the
custom-or used to be-to build blocks of zinc into the stern of
the ship, and this set up two cells, in effect, and the zinc was eaten
away but neither the bronze nor the steel were. Blocks of zinc
placed inside crankcases of engines might act in the same way.
The Author had mentioned the conditions at Port Talbot, which
were rather similar to the steel works at Port Kembla in Australia,
where some eight 800-horsepower diesel electric locomotives
operated, having an average availability of about 95 per cent. It
would be interesting to know how that compared with the loco-
motives at Port Talbot. The heavy overhaul of these Australian
locomotives had initially taken place at four years. Further
locomotives had been ordered and, as it had been done at Port
Talbot, the traction motors were the same, the control gear was
largely the same, but the engine had been changed. It was
interesting that the decision had been made at the Australian steel-
works to order smaller locomotives in a similar way to that at Port
Talbot.
Regarding the question of transmission efficiency, he agreed with
the Author that this was rather overdone by some manufacturers
when trying to sell one form of transmission against another. The
Author was quite right in saying that it was a minor point. I t
certainly had very little bearing in the case of a shunter; what did
matter wasDownloaded
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642 JOURNAL O F T H E INSTITUTION OF LOCOMOTIVE E N G I N E E R S
He would like to know the Author's views on the idling con-

sumption of the engine irrespective of the method of transmission.
H e felt that this was quite important, as a shunting locomotive
spent quite a lot of time with the engine idling.
The Author had mentioned noise, and it might be interesting
to mention a trial which had been carried out in Switzerland early
this year with Continental diesel electric shunting locomotives and
the one of British origin. Complaints had been made against the
Continental locomotives on the ground of noise. In Switzerland
most shunting was camed out to whistle or bell signals, and these
could not be heard very well with the Continental locomotives, but
with the British locomotive they could. There had been further
complaints that people living near the shunting yard could not
sleep at night when the Continental locomotives worked; with the
British locomotives the complaint did not arise. The reason
appeared to lie in the fact that locomotives with high-speed engines
were noisy. The British locomotive had a n engine of medium speed
and had not given rise to any trouble from noise.
Lastly, dealing with hydraulic transmission, he noted that once
again the Author had quoted what had become a clichC, namely that
reports from Germany indicated satisfactory running of diesel
hydraulic locomotives. Diesel hydraulic locomotives operated in many
countries other than Germany, but he had not seen any reports of
satisfactory running in other countries. This was a little strange
because, if they were successful, why not say so? Had the Author
had any news of diesel hydraulic locomotives in steel works that
were operating satisfactorily? There was none in this country yet.
I t was a controversial point. I t was to be hoped that there would
be some in this country so that they could be assessed fairly. H e
felt it right to raise with the Author the question of all these reports
coming from Germany.
Mr. T. A. Crowe (M.) said that he had been very interested

in the Author's remarks on corrosion in diesel engine cylinders,
because he had once experienced a similar trouble.
In the engine in question the water space between the cylinder
liner and the cylinder jacket became very narrow at the top. Serious
corrosion was experienced in way of the cooling water outlet which
was taken from the top of this space. The trouble was overcome by
re-designing the water jackets to provide a larger water space. Mr.
Crowe said he thought the trouble might have been caused by the high
water velocity in this vicinity scouring off the protective coating, and
he felt this might have happened in the case of the engines described
by Mr. Wordsworth at the position on the cylinder liners opposite
the water inlet.
Experience in marine engines had shown that chromate
treatment, although very effective with fresh water or distilled
water, was very corrosive indeed in the presence of the slightest
trace of salt. If there was any trace of salt in the water, one got
very violent corrosion. For that reason chromate treatment had
been almost entirely
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UNIV CALIFORNIA some years
DIEGO on ago
February 27, 2016 on marine
engines and a soluble oil called Dromus ID’, marketed by the

Shell Company had been used instead.
Mr. Davy had commented that there were no diesel hydraulic
locomotives operating in steelworks in this country. He could
mention at least four steelworks where diesel hydraulic locomotives
were operating.
Mr. G. Cormn (M.) noted that the Author recommended

buying big enough locomotives, even to the extent of having excess
weight. Later in the Paper the Author suggested that the operator
should pay a bit more and buy a locomotive which incorporated
improvements rather than keep alive a demand for what the Author
suggested was ‘‘cheap and nasty. ” Manufacturers would certainly
support those views and probably-in theory, at least,-so would
other operators.
Nevertheless, it was usually the manufacturer’s experience that
the majority of operators seemed to have difficulty in finding the
money to spend on the extra first cost of the locomotive, as opposed
to finding the somewhat higher rates of maintenance over the years.
This was doubtless due to the present widespread policy of curtailing
capital investment, but it must have a reflection on the rate of
appearance of new developments.
He observed that it was stated in the Paper that the starting
tractive effort claimed for the American locomotive represented an
adhesion figure of 28 per cent. Would the Author say whether this
figure was considered reliable under normal every-day conditions?
He was interested to see the advantage in operating costs of
the diesel electric locomotive as compared with the steam so clearly
stated. On the availability figures given, the diesels could be at
work for 28g per cent. longer than the steam. Where there was
a fairly intensive use of locomotives throughout the day, this was
fairly general experience. He asked the Author over what length
of time these figures had been computed.
Incidentally, the figures on page 628 showed that the saving
at Port Talbot on diesel electric over steam had paid for the
diesels in five years.
Mr. L. B. Norrish (M.) noted that under the heading “The

Conventional Steam Locomotive, ” the Author deplored the lack
of improvements in detail design embodied in standard industrial
locomotives by their buiIders. The representatives of the building
fraternity had said something about this tonight, but he wished
to enter the lists, speaking as one interested in propagating the
merits of such an improvement. He had found that, while the
builder’s reaction was one of polite sympathy, any discussion
invariably ended by the builder pointing out that competition was
so keen these days that he dared not embody in his design anything
which was going to add the slightest amount to his price, and that
specific additions must emanate from the user. This seemed to be
not unreasonable, since the builder was both a locomotive engineer
and a business
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many SAN cases-this, of2016course, did
DIEGO on February 27,
not refer to the Steel Company of Wales, who quite obviously

realised the need to have locomotive engineers to deal with a very
adequate fleet-the situation was aggravated, as the Author had
pointed out, by the customer seldom being a locomotive engineer.
This was most evident in industries where numerous loco-
motives were located over large areas, with small units of perhaps
less than half a dozen, the responsibility for which devolved on
engineers not versed in modern locomotive practice, and these
machines remained the “Cinderellas” of the engineers’ jurisdiction.
In such cases, the user received neither more nor less than he was
prepared to pay for.
It would appear that this situation was just as likely to stultify
progress in diesel locomotive design in the future, as the Author
felt that it had steam design in the past, unless the user took
steps to get proper advice as to what improvements were available
to him and was prepared to pay for them and prove their value
or otherwise.
Referring to transmission systems on diesel locomoties, he had
been able to discuss this point with one of the Austrian State
Railway engineers recently at one of their repair works and he had
gathered that for shunting purposes they were changing over,
after many years of experience, from electrical transmission to
hydraulic, mainly on the score of reduced maintenance.
H e could not offer any solution to the Author with regard to
the problem of corrosion of liners, but the Author had implied
rather, since it occurred only on engines with electrical transmission,
that this might have some relation to it, and several other speakers
had agreed with this. H e would only suggest that the most obvious
thing for the Author to do, if he wanted to get over this corrosion
trouble with liners, was to revert to the hydraulic transmission.
One other point, not mentioned by the Author but mentioned
to him recently by one responsible for locomotive maintenance at
a steelworks, was the question of the quality of the labour available
for the use as drivers Perhaps the Author could give an opinion
on this and say what was his Company’s practice in this respect,
and whether the diesel could not be operated b y a less skilled man
than had previously been thought necessary when dealing with
steam locomotives.
AUTHOR’S REPLY
Mr. C. Wordsworth, in reply, noted that Mr. Collzs had
confirmed the assertion that simplicity of control was essential,
particularly, as he had tried to show in the Paper, in a works
where the driver had to be constantly on the alert for other people
doing silly things, for level crossings, and also where so much of
the work was starting, stopping, and reversing, both on gradients
and on the level. It was indeed essential that control should be
the simplest possible.
Mr. Collis had suggested rheostatic braking. Possibly some-
thing of that sort would have advantages. One great reason why
plenty of Downloaded
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was desirable for industrial locomotives was
at UNIV CALIFORNIA SAN DIEGO on February 27, 2016
braking. When bringing a heavy train downhill on a wet day,

one had got to have the weight to stop the train. Within a steel-
works there was no question of continuous brakes throughout the
train, but the locomotive brake only, and nothing else. From the
point of view of the remarks of later speakers, this was an
interesting suggestion as Mr. Collis had suggested a new feature,
and surely it was now u p to the builders to press the users a s hard
as they could and make sure that the users were thoroughly up-to-
date in their locomotives.
Mr. Collis had referred to the employment of electricians and
fitters. It was true to say that the Company did not employ as
many electricians as fitters; the ratio was approximately two to
three, and it should be borne in mind that to some extent that
would be accounted for by the fact that there must be at least one
of each on each shift, since there had got to be round-the-clock
service in case of trouble or breakdowns.
Mr. Collis had also mentioned the possibility of straight electric
traction, which would in many cases be ideal, but there would be
certain difficulties to consider, one being the capital cost of structures,
as presumably there would be an overhead contact line. I t was
necessary also to consider the difficulty of running contact lines into
all the buildings, because it must be remembered that in a steel
mill or a steel melting shop there must be locomotives running
underneath overhead cranes, and if there were overhead cranes
working, what would happen to the contact wires? H e thought
that any form of third rail would be out of the question; there was
inevitable dirt and spillage and too many people walking about.
H e believed that electric traction was used on the Continent
to some extent in steelworks, but he did not know how they got
over the problem of working inside buildings, if indeed it was so
used. H e knew that they used it in the yards. As Mr. Collis had
said, straight electric traction was used on things like transfer cars
and scale cars, but this was done on a clearly defined section and
was often not connected with the main railway system at all. It
was simply an isolated length of track in its specific place, where
conductors can be safely and easily arranged.
Mr. Collis had also referred to small high-speed engines. Of
course, this opened up a most enchanting possibility. If one could
get a really high-speed high-powered horizontal engine, one could
have a locomotive which just consisted of a cab to all outward
appearance, which would be absolutely ideal for the driver.
Mr. Bond had made the point that within a steelworks, locomotive
conditions approximated more to trip working than shunting. This
was true. While there was a good deal of ordinary shunting, there
was also a great deal of trip working and one must bear that fact
in mind when designing locomotives.
Mr. Bond had also mentioned the statement in the Paper
suggesting that it would be possible to get an availability with a
really modern steam locomotive equal to that of a diesel. H e
thought that he ought
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CALIFORNIA DIEGO onhe had
February in mind was
27, 2016
646 JOURNAL O F THE INSTITUTION O F LOCOMOTIVE ENGINEERS
that one could get with a steam locomotive an availability equal

to what people normally achieved in practice with a diesel. H e did
not think one could get a n availability with steam equal to the very
best obtainable with a diesel; in any case this extra steam availability
would involve quite a lot of costly running shed installations, and
since really the only advantage of the steam locomotive was its low
capital cost, then it also became expensive if one tied on a lot of
bits and pieces, and therefore one was no better off.
Utilisation of the diesels, of course, was 24 hours per day. Normally
a diesel went out of the shed after inspection and stayed in traffic
for 14 days, 24 hours a day, apart from returning for fuel, sand, and
so on. As the use of diesels will be extended to other sections of the
works, then h e 1 may have to be taken to the locomotives.
Mr. Bond had taken him to task about the use of the word
“gadget.” Perhaps he ought to say that no gadget was any good
unless it was a proven gadget.
Mr. Topham had made a very interesting point when he said that
the industrial users came along and asked for what they had had
before. This was probably true, because few works had locomotive
engineers. They had probably been running a locomotive built in
the late 1890’s or so, and when it finally folded up they naturally
called for nothing different, because they were not familiar with
anything better. It should be the builder’s duty to tell the user
that what he had sixty years ago was no good now, and so on; but
then there was the interesting point that if the user did not like
what was suggested to him, he could go to another builder round
the corner who would be prepared to sell him exactly the same as
what he had got sixty years ago. He could quite see the point
about a locomotive firm not wishing to ram down the customer’s
throat too much about what that firm considered the customer should
buy, because some other firm would be prepared to give the customer
exactly what he wanted. In the United States, certainly as far as
diesels were concerned, one could only buy what the builders would
make; one could not go to a builder and say that one did not
like a given locomotive and wanted so and so, since if it were a
question of only one or two locomotives, one had to have the
standard product.
The American automobile industry, through vast publicity,
endeavours to make the general public feel thoroughly ashamed of
being seen in anything less than the current model; surely something
of this attitude could with advantage be adopted by the locomotive
industry to far greater extent than at present. Too often a builder’s
publicity consists of mere pictorial record of his products, without
any vivid presentation of the advantages to be gained by the
customer through using them.
The 0-6-0 locomotives did not have superheating. H e felt that
the cluestion of superheating in shunting engines was rather a vexed
problem, and possibly this came back to the difference between
shunting locomotives and trip locomotives. For purely straight
shunting, where it was regulator open, regulator shut, all the time,
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DIEGOhand,
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27, 2016 particular
locomotives did handle the blast furnace slag, which meant quite
a long run up a grade, and he agreed it might be some advantage
to have superheating, although such a thing would be an innovation
t o industrial locomotives in this country. Again, there was no reason
why it should not be done, although, of course, at this stage they
were not doing anything more to their steam locomotives a t all in
the sense of developing new ideas or techniques.
Mr. Topham had also mentioned steam reversing gear. The
0-6-0 locomotives did not have steam reversing, but they had
stipulated when buying them that the reversing shaft should be
balanced, and it was really an extremely easy lever to throw over.
They had since started to experiment and one of the 17-inch 0-4-0’s
has been fitted with a steam reverser, but shortly after that had
been fitted the decision had come to abandon steam, and therefore
no further progress would be made in that direction.
With regard to the possibility of automatic oil firing, one could
only wait and see what happened. His own experience of oil firing
had been solely on a main line, where one always considered that
although there was a great deal less physical effort required by the
fireman, it involved a much higher degree of concentration, because
pretty well every change made either to the regulator or the reversing
lever by the driver had to be reflected in some way by the fireman’s
action. That was why he had remarked that with one man on
the footplate there might be some difficulties. On the other hand,
if it could be made fully automatic, it might be very efficient indeed.
As regards water treatment, he could not agree more with Mr.
Topham. H e thought there should be much more advice given
by engine makers to users about water treatment. At this stage,
it might be of some interest to bring this question of corrosion of
the liners up to date. As he had said, the position was very much
better than it had been a year ago, as during the year a great deal
of work had been done. They had scrapped a lot of liners, but
they were now using water treatment. They were experimenting
with various liner coatings, and in fact they were inclined to think
that this question of engine block corrosion might mostly have taken
place before they started treating the water. It was interesting to
note that on a class of five identical locomotives, each one of the
five had different corrosion characteristics; in fact, one of them had
been hardly effected at all. H e thought there was a verTJ strong
possibility that this could be due to stray currents coming i n from
somewhere, because it was most noticeable that it had only happened
on diesel electric locomotives: it had not happened on the small
mechanical locomotives or, as far as he knew, on the mechanical
plant of the works-bulldozers, and so on. M r . Crowe had
suggested that possibly it was due to mechanical action. and they
had been working on this theory to some extent. Members might
be interesed to know that an extremely interesting paper on the
subject of water treatment had been read before the Diesel Engine
Users’ Association in February of this year.
The Author had not intended to imply that his engine main-
tenance was excessive: he merely wished to point out that the
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from jil.sagepub.com largely determined
CALIFORNIA by 27,the
SAN DIEGO on February 2016 engine. If
anything could be done to sharply reduce the frequency of the

essential engine work, then the availability of these locomotives
would be considerably improved.
Mr. Rees had raised the question why different engine types had
been used between the two locomotives and suggested the centre
cab arrangement, and had suggested simply pulling the old power
unit out and putting a new one in its place. He thought that this
was a perfectly possible solution; it was an extremely arguable point.
The view had been taken that it was better o n a big locomotive to
look after one big engine rather than two small ones, but Mr. Rees’s
hypothesis was a reasonable one-and, of course, the centre cab
arrangement was used very extensively. I t would, he thought, pay
more where there was a large fleet, because then there was no great
capital expenditure involved in holding the spare power unit.
Nevertheless, it is thought that the single-engine locomotive would
be the cheaper to maintain in the long run.
Mr. Rees had mentioned the possibility of multiple-unit operation,
and this had been considered. At one time there had been the
question whether there was any advantage in standardising entirely
on the smaller 300-horsepower type, and fitting them for multiple-
unit operation, but two small locomotives cost a lot more than one
big one, even without multiple-unit. By the time this additional
equipment was put on, there would be a capital loss in doing it,
and he thought that the expenditure involved was not justifiable,
except in specific cases where the number of heavy duties was very
small in proportion to the total.
Mr. Davy had mentioned the idea of having zinc blocks in the
engines and possibly applying an extra current to work opposite
to the one that was causing the trouble. That point was being
looked at now.
An availability figure for Port Kembla of 95 per cent. had been
given. At Port Talbot there was a similar figure and prior to the
advent of this water trouble the figure was about 94 per cent:
whereas Port Kembla overhauled their big 800-horsepower locomotives
at four years, the American locomotives were now being overhauled
for the first time; after more than five years service.
With regard to idling, obviously one wanted to have an engine
that would idle as slowly as possible. On the 300-horsepower 0-4-0
locomotives, the idling speed was fairly high, and therefore, the fuel
consumption must be fairly high. There was a standing instruction
to drivers that if they thought they were going to be standing for
over 10 minutes, they should shut down and restart.
H e had been very interested to hear that British locomotives
were claimed to be less noisy than Continental ones. H e was afraid
he had only little experience of Continental diesel locomotives, and
could make no comment on them.
There certainly were hydraulic transmissions running in this
country in steelworks use, and giving every satisfaction. H e would
like to make it clear that in his Paper he had tried not to be a
protagonistDownloaded
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from jil.sagepub.com They had
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because at that time, in 1946, there had been no alternative for the
powers they wanted. He thought that if now they were to start
from scratch again, the question was wide open, and for that reason
he had suggested that a really unbiased comparative report be made
in a few years time.
iWv. Crowe had made the extremely interesting point that

if chromate treatment was used in the presence of salt water there
might be disaster. At Port Talbot the town water came straight
off the hills, it was naturally very soft and, he suspected, was saline
to some extent.
11.17. Corson had raised a query about the 57,000 lb. tractive effort
on the American locomotives. He had asked whether the figure was
reliable, as it was based on 28 per cent. adhesion. There was just
no load by which one could test the starting tractive effort figure.
When they had first had the locomotives, they had one day just
coupled on the wagons, until they had reached 126 wagons of scrap
-1,760 tons gross-and then they had given it up because the shunter
was too far away. In reply to another question by Mr. Corson, the
economic figures had beer, computed over the period of a year-and
a recent year, too, when the locomotives were a few years old.
Mr. Norrish had made the point about the Austrians changing
from electric to hydraulic transmission on the ground of reduced
maintenance. Here again, he would say that he was not a
protagonist of either. He thought there were probably a great many
arguments on both sides, and that was why he had suggested that
in a few years’ time, when there would be a number of hydraulic
locomotives which had been running for some years in this country,
it would be extremely interesting if somebody could make a frank
investigation of the comparative cost.
Mr. Norrish had also asked whether it was possible to have a
lower grade of drivers on diesels than on steam locomotives. In a
steelworks, the man came in as a junior shunter and then became
a shunter, and then by seniority was made a driver. There were
certain rights of selection, but by and large one could only say that
a man must not be a driver if one had some very strong grounds for
saying so. They had always tried, bearing this in mind, to teach
diesel drivers just what they needed to know and no more, on the
theory that a little knowledge could be dangerous. They taught
the drivers how to stop and start and reverse, and certain other
elementary points. Beyond that they did not aim to tell the drivers
anything, except that if they heard or saw anything peculiar they
should stop the engine and shout for help! They did that because at
the steelworks the area was comparatively small; it was simple to
get a fitter and an electrician to the locomotive when it was in
trouble, and the position was different from that on a main line
railway. If a certain individual was obviously very keen on diesel
locomotives and wanted to know more, then they did all they could
to help him, but they tried not to tell anybody too much if he did
not want toDownloaded
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CALIFORNIA theDIEGO
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650 JOURNAL OF THE INSTITUTION O F LOCOMOTIVE E N G I N E E R S
MEETING IN LEEDS 20th DECEMBER 1955

The Fourth Ordinary General Meeting of the North Eastern
Centre was held at the Great Northern Hotel, Leeds on 20th
December 1955, at 6.45 p.m., the Chair being taken by Mr. A. S.
Robertson.
The Minutes of the Meeting held on the 24th of November 1955,
were read, approved, and signed as correct.
The Chairman then introduced Mr. C. Wordsworth (Associate
Member) who read his Paper entitled “Locomotives for Heavy
Industry.”
This was followed by a discussion.
DISCUSSION
Mr. A. S. Robertson (M.), in opening the discussion, proposed
to take the Author to task in connection with the comparison which
he had made between British and American locomotive manufacturers.
I t was stated that locomotive requirements were known in 1946 and
that locomotives were ordered from the United States to avoid
extended delivery, but then in the next paragraph it appears that
these locon-iotives were not delivered until 1950, which is four years.
There must have been some British locomotive manufacturers who
would have been only too pleased and well able to meet the require-
ments in Iess than four years.
No mention is made by name of the British Manufacturer
supplying diesel-electric locomotives to the Port Talbot plant, this
is probably in accordance with Institution procedure, but then
surely it should not be correct to publicise the American Locomotive
Co. by name.
The Author states that American locomotives are probably the
finest to be found in the world, this, if it is true, has probably come
about by the benefits of an almost inexhaustible home market which
until recently the British manufacturer has not had a chance of
supplying. Two instances occurred about the time of which the
Author was speaking, one was that when Mr. F. A. Harper of the
LMS Railway went over to the States, shortly after locomotives Nos.
10,000 and 10,001 went into service, he came back and told us
“that if we had a quarter of the trouble that the Americans had had
we would have packed the job up a long time ago.” About the
same time the speaker had visited a locomotive depot in Chicago,
which was operating 230 diesel-electric freight locomotives. At that
time they were inspecting piston rings every thousand miles for
breakages and as a result they were pulling out 300 to 400 pistons
per month for defects; this worked out at 1,800 locomotive miles per
piston pulled. This is mentioned because American locomotives of
about this time were not always the trouble-free equipment which
it was claimed they were.
The locomotives from the American Locomotive Company, if
they are of standard design, would be about 14 ft. 6 in. high, whereas
the British shunting locomotive is built to about 12 ft. 6 in.; is this
higher loading gauge accepted and has advantage been taken of this
in subsequent designs? The locomotive shown in Fig. 19 is rather

peculiar in its appearance and it is asked whether this shape is really
advantageous, because it obviously does not actually provide any
more forward view although probably one can look out more from
the side.
The new performance called for on page 635 does indeed call for
a heavy locomotive of about 90 tons and if it is necessary to go up the
grade at a reasonable speed of, say, 3 to 4 miles an hour, probably
660 h.p. would be necessary. How many such locomotives would
be required to handle the onerous duty and if it is only one or two,
would it not be better to standardise on a rather smaller locomotive
and operate in multiple-unit where necessary?
Mr. J. N. Compton, O.B.E. (M.) said that the duty which

involved a gradient of 1 in 70 is probably a traffic problem, as it
appeared to him that some other method of disposing of slag might
be adopted. One in seventy gradient involved 32 lb/ton resistance
which was a considerable factor.
He could not believe that the majority of the duties, and he had
seen something of the Port Talbot plant, could not be operated by
something of the order of 400 h.p. He was surprised that the 300
h.p. locomotive had a continuous tractive effort of only 8,000 lb at
9 m.p.h. whereas with even a self-ventilated traction motor on a
locomotive of 275 h.p. it is possible to get 12,500 Ib at 6.3 m.p.h.
It may be something to do with size of wheels or some other limiting
difficulty.
It should not be forgotten that the brake power available on a
diesel locomotive is considered more than is available on a steam
locomotive; he made that remark in passing because the average
industrial steam locomotive is a saddle-tank where one had to base
the brake power on only about 60% of the average weight in working
order.
Mr. H. Pybus (M.) said that on the diesel-electric locomotives,

it is noted that the maintenance work necessary for the first four
years was very low and that no major overhaul was necessary in
that time; but is it right to assume that very special arrangements
were made for the care and inspection of these locomotives including
special pits and specially trained men? Was any such special
maintenance applied to the 165-h.p.mechanical locomotives and how
long were they in service before a major overhaul was necessary?
It is common knowledge that the poor old steam locomotive never
got the same attention.
Mention was made in the early part of the Paper of an 80-foot
radius curve that could not be altered, necessitating the use of 0-4-0
type locomotives. Later, it was stated that the trend is now to
standardise large bogie type locomotives. The 80-foot curve is very
sharp even for a bogie type and there would certainly be a big
swing-over. H e asked if the curve can now be altered to take these
large bogie type locomotives.
Some of the wagons in use have a 45-ton axle load. What weight
of rail do they run
Downloaded on?
Mr. Macnab (V.) asked if the Author had any figures available
showing the rolling and starting resistances of the 130-, 140- and 180-
ton loaded wagons at Port Talbot.
Mr. A, R. Ewer ( M ) , in thanking the Author for his very valu-

able Paper, said he had often thought that if a man could attend his
own funeral he would gather from the complimentary things that were
said about him what a wonderful fellow he had been whilst he was
alive. I n the steam engine's dying days he was being reminded all
the time what a miserable wretch he had been and one could only
hope that when the final steam locomotive was buried it would be
placed on record what a grand old man he had been.
A previous speaker had referred to the palatial accommodation
provided for the maintenance of diesel locomotives; would the Author
dare contemplate what would happen to the diesel locomotives if they
were to be afforded only the same miserable conditions that the steam
locomotive had been accorded during its life?
Mr. Ewer said the Author had mentioned that the diesel locomo-
tives he was now using were out-dated, and he presumed the next
step would be to buy more up-to-date machines. What would happen
to the old ones that were considered to be out-dated?
He referred to the Author's remarks in his conclusion, wherein he
said-" The Steel Company of Wales has held that a fleet of locomo-
tives of this size necessitates the employment of a fully trained and
qualified engineer. I n many works the practice still exists of
locomotive maintenance being a part-time job for the general works
maintenance engineers; this may have been all right in the steam
days." Would the Author say why it would have been all right in
the steam days?
Mr. A. Wood (A.M.), in referring to the large fleet of diesel

locomotives operating, asked if any special arrangements were made
for refuelling, and if so, whether the fuel tanks on each type of loco-
motive were specially positioned to suit the refuelling arrangements.
Referring to roller bearing axleboxes, he was pleased to know
that most of the locomotives with which the Author was concerned
were fitted with roller bearings, and he asked the Author to describe
his experience with these bearings in service compared with plain
bearing axleboxes.
Yr. S. B. Stainsby (A.M.) expressed surprise that the diesel

mechanical locomotive had not found further favour, considering its
special suitability for use in a steelworks, a most useful characteristic
being the braking effect of the engine on down grades.
He said with reference to the careful maintenance provided for
diesel locomotives, that surely in their heyday just as careful main-
tenance was provided for steam locomotives, and it may be that in
years to come the diesel locomotive will have to fend for itself just as
the steam locomotives have to do today.
AUTHOR’S REPLY
MY. Robertson. The American locomotives were not actually
ordered until 1948 although initial discussion with the makers had
started in 1946. In fact these locomotives were delivered to Port
Talbot in less than two years including the time of shipment. In any
case these locomotives were not put into service for some time after
they had actually been received.
The reason for the Author mentioning the American Locomotive
Co. by name was that this was a purchase from abroad and that,
therefore, rather more latitude could be permitted; in any case financial
conditions would appear to prevent any more American locomotives
being purchased and, therefore, this order becomes a matter almost of
historical record.
Mr. Robertson’s remarks about his own findings in the United
States are noted; nevertheless, these American locomotives at Port
Talbot have given wonderful service and have formed the background
of the Company’s locomotive fleet.
The large size of the American locomotives does indeed prevent
them from being completely mobile throughout the Plant, although
there are only a few places where they cannot go. Advantage has been
taken of the higher loading gauge and the standard locomotive outline
now used allows a height of 13 ft. 3 in. and a width of 9 ft. 8 in. The
shape of the locomotive shown in Fig. 19 is extremely advantageous
as it permits the driver to get a cross view when approaching a road
crossing the rail track at right angles.
Multiple-unit operation would probably be advantageous E i the
number of heavy duties was very small. As it is, although the duty
referred to is the heaviest single one on the Plant, there are a number
of other duties calling for a higher power, and therefore, quite a
number of large locomotives had had to be provided. Under these
circumstances the capital cost of a number of small multiple-unit loco-
motives would be considerably higher than the equivalent number of
larger locomotives, since it must be realised that two small multiple-
unit locomotives of 300 h.p. cost considerably more than one large
locomotive of about 500 h.p.
MY.Compton. Any steelworks will try to keep the area covered

by slag as small as possible, and obviously the higher the slag bank
the greater quantity that can be tipped in a given area.
Whilst it is agreed that many of the heavier duties could be
operated by a locomotive of perhaps 400 h.p., it is desirable to keep
the number of locomotive types to a minimum and for that reason it
was decided to make the big locomotive capable of the heaviest duty,
even though on certain other duties they might be slightly overpowered.
For comparison it may be mentioned that one new steelworks in the
United States has all its locomotives of 1,200 h.p.
Mr. Compton should bear in mind that the maximum speed
demanded of the 300 h.p. locomotives was 28 miles an hour and there-
fore some loss in continuous tractive effort has had to be expected; it
is thought that the 275 h.p. locomotives he refers to had a much lower
maximum speed.
MY. Pybus. It is certainly true to say that fully trained men have
been used for the maintenance of all the diesel locomotives; the new
diesel locomotive shed, however, has only been in use for a few months
and prior to that a very primitive structure was in being. Facilities
are important, but it is much more important to have fully trained
men. Exactly the same arrangements were used for the maintenance
of the 165 h.p. mechanical locomotives: it has been necessary for these
to have heavy maintenance at much more frequent intervals than the
big diesel electric, because they are being loaded to capacity the whole
time-in fact they are being overloaded.
The 80-ft. radius curve has been eliminated during the last 12
months due to reconstruction of the old part of the Works; there are
now no curves less than 150-ft. radius and these can be negotiated
satisfactorily by any locomotives; whenever possible a 339-ft. radius
curve is standard.
All rail tracks carrying heavy traffic are laid with 109 lb. flat-
bottom rails, with sleeper spacing closer than standard.
MY. MacNab. The heavy vehicles to which he refers are all run-
ning on roller bearings. Some tests were recently carried out and as
far as could be shown by these tests of rather an elementary nature,
the starting resistance is very similar to that normally expected for
roller-bearing stock i.e. about 4 lb. per ton.
Mr. Ewer. As stated in the reply to hlr. Pybus, the new diesel shed
has only been in use for a few months. While conditions can be im-
proved, the maintenance standards laid down and the skill of the
craftsmen are much more important. In other words, diesel locomo-
tives can be well maintained in a shack, but they can be maintained
much more adequately and comfortably in a proper building designed
for the job.
While it could be argued that some of the older diesel locomotives
were out-dated, this is largely due to the rapid development within the
locomotive industry that has taken place during the last few years,
and there is obviously no intention at present of disposing of the older
ones.
In former days, maintenance on steam locomotives was very akin
to maintenance of much other steelworks plant. Maintenance on
modern steelworks machinery calls for specialisation and this applies
particularly to diesel electric locomotives.
MY. W o o d . At present all diesel locomotives are refuelled at the

diesel shed since most of them are working in the Abbey Works. With
the advent of full diesel conversion, it will be necessary to have the
fuel brought to the locomotives and some form of tank lorry will be
utilised for this purpose; it will be fitted with pumps, hoses, etc.
No great trouble has been experienced with any of the older dieseI
locomotives fitted with plain bearing axleboxes although there have
been one or two cases of hot boxes developing.
A very important point to be borne in mind is that it is perfectly
possible to Downloaded
design from
a diesel locomotive to need no lubrication at all other
than that done at the shed during regular maintenance inspections,

and the use of roller bearings comes into this. Since, therefore, the
driver does not need to have an oil can at all, there is some saving to
be achieved in locomotive utilisation.
M r . Stainsby. The two drawbacks to the diesel-mechanical loco-

motives referred to in the Paper are very real ones, and although this
transmission has certain advantages it is considered that ease of control
and absence of noise are of extreme importance.
It is hoped that diesel locomotive maintenance will always continue
at a high level. If preventive inspection and maintenance had always
been applied to steam locomotives as was perfectly feasible, then com-
plaints about the condition of steam locomotives would not arise. The
trouble was that quite frequently the steam locomotive was just left
to run until it broke down.
MEETING IN GLASGOW 21st DECEMBER 1955

The Fourth Ordinary General Meeting of the Scottish Centre was
held at St. Enoch Hotel, Glasgow on Wednesday 21st December 1955,
at 7.0 p.m., the Chair being taken by Mr. M. S. Hatchell (Member of
Council).
The Minutes of the Meeting held on 23rd November 1955, were
read, approved, and signed as correct.
Member) who read his Paper entitled Locomotives for Heavy
‘ I
Industry.’’
DISCUSSION
Mr. A. C. Smith (M.) was interested in the Author’s comments
on makers’ instructions, and agreed with him on this point. He com-
mented on the high capital costs, and the low running costs with the
diesels. With the steam locomotive, oil-firing would help greatly.
He felt that the list of spares for diesels was definitely much in excess
of that for the steam locomotive.
With regard to the six-coupled engine (Fig. 10) Mr. Smith
suggested a higher boiler pressure and superheater might improve it.
He wanted to know if there was much slip with the steel bogies.
He had noted that the Steel Co. of Wales ordered five 600 h.p.
diesels from America because there was no standard locomotive of this
size being made in this country, but these were not delivered until
1950. Four years seemed a long time to deliver standard design loco-
motives. He asked why the Steel Co. did not try 300 or 400 h.p. in
multiple-units. With regard to maintenance costs, which were roughly
2-1 against steam, was the Author taking maintenance costs of old
steam locos against new diesels?
For the prevention of corrosion of cylinder liners, he suggested
using “ Aspexior ” in the water, as used on locomotive boilers.
Mr. E. F. Clark (G.) said with regaicl to the manufacturers

having standard designs, his experience was that there was as many
different “ ideal ” steelworks locomotives as there were steelworks.
Each engineer had a number of ideas which had to be incorporated
in his locomotive, and if the builder wished to obtain the business,
these wishes had to be deferred to. Such special features tended to
increase the initial capital cost substantially, but even so this would
not materially alter the picture as far as the overall financial savings
to be achieved by the introduction of diesel power were concerned.
He felt sure that manufacturers’ standard diesel designs were now in
most cases very suitable for the duties they were called on to perform
having been modified as experience accumulated.
The Steel Company of Wales were very lucky in being able to
make a fetish of all-round visibility-they had a loading gauge which
was considerably more generous even than British Railways. I t was
usually the case, particularly in older works, that height, width and
throw-over were severely restricted.
He had also found that some Works Engineers took almost a
pride in the badness of their permanent way and rolling stock. It was
a pity that some of the money spent in inefficiently melting the grease
in old axleboxes could not be put towards more up-to-date rolling
stock.
Finally, he wished to turn to the vexed question of costs. In his
work he had lately had occasion to carry out a good deal of investiga-
tion on this heading and he therefore took the opportunity of
summarising some of his results for the benefit of the meeting. While
these might not be absolutely accurate in all details, they would give
a good general picture. The figure for capital costs was the most
accurate being based on fairly wide sources of information. From
these it would appear that taking a power of about 300 h.p. or its
equivalent, the average capital costs for different kinds of locomotive
would be as follows:--orthodox steam 100%; geared steam 14504;
diesel mechanical 175 % ; diesel hydraulic 183 % ; diesel electric 240 % .
Making some assumptions it was also possible to plot curves of main-
tenance and running costs for various types of locomotives on the
common basis of horsepower. From these it would be seen that in
nearly all cases the total charges under these two headings for any type
of diesel locomotive were usually rather less than half the equivalent
figure for a steam locomotive of orthodox design. Comparing
figures quoted in the Paper with his own it would appear that the
average size of steam locomotive in use at the Steel Company of Wales
was shown as about a 350 h.p. or 16 in. unit, while the average size
or* the diesels was about 450 h.p. This appeared to tally with the facts
and gave a useful cross-check.
Finally, it was possible to add the capital charges to the running
and maintenance figures and thus arrive at some assessment of the
overall cost of running each type of motive power. This would seem
to show that the overall costs for orthodox steam, diesel electric and
diesel hydraulic were approximately in the proportions of loo%, 70%
and 65 % respectively.
Mr. J. A. Kelby (V.) stated that a user of Industrial Locomotives

must consider availability when comparing steam with diesel. Trans-
port is an integral part of the operation of the plant. There are
locomotives at the blast furnaces, and it would not be wise to divorce
these locomotives from their special duties. He was convinced that the
steam locomotive was a thing of the past, and that over a period of
years they would be superseded. On the question of costs of steam
v. diesel, he felt there was no argument. There was a big saving in
costs in the case of diesels, mostly due to saving in fuel. He instanced
the case of a steam locomotive in his own firm which was converted to
oil-burning, and stated that it was the best locomotive they had. Its
availability was good, and maintenance costs were low. Costs per
operating hour and fuel costs, were most favourable. The Author had
indicated that the Steel Co. of Wales would have 29 locomotives, with
a maintenance shed for 4 locomotives. Was this a reasonable propor-
tion? Mr. Kelby asked what was the procedure in so far as servicing
the diesels was concerned. Were the locomotives brought in to the
shed and cleaned there, leaving the driver nothing to do but drive?
Mr. H. Arbuthnott (V.) asked about heaters, particularly on

the American locomotives, and if these locomotives were fitted with
“ deadman’s ” pedals. He also asked for information on service
facilities and spares.
Mr. L. C. W e l b m ( M . ) noted that the Steel Co. of Wales
wanted a diesel locomotive in the region of 480 h.p., but purchased the
American locomotive of GG0 h.p. because builders in this country were
not building this type. He called to mind the 450 h.p. diesel electric
shunter which was first introduced on the LMS in 1930 built by The
English Electric Co.
With regard to maintenance, he asked if this was based on
mileage, or on hours in traffic, or hours in actual operation. On the
economy resulting from oil-firing he could only visualise increased
availability, by the reduction of disposal periods. How did the Author
account for the economy by the use of oil-firing?
Mr. H. Arbuthnott (V.) felt that the diesel-hydraulic had an

advantage over the electric, because the electricians had to keep
attending to the diesel-electric. He asked if the locomotives were sent
in for servicing, or if the staff went to the locomotives.
Mr. J. Fleming (M.) , on the question of fortnightly maintenance,

asked how long was the locomotive actually in the shed.
Mr. W. F. D. Hart (G.) asked what the policy of the Steel Co.
of Wales would be after full conversion to diesels, so far as the engines
were concerned. Would they take an engine out, or overhaul it on
the main chassis?
Mr. J. Warren (G.) asked if the diagonal colouring at the

front and rear of the diesel locomotives (both British and American),
was black and white or black with some other light colour. H e
presumed this was a safety precaution.
He foresaw at a future date, either because of locomotives breaking
down or being under repair, that the stand-by locomotive would either
be too big or too small to perform some duties and he was of the
opinion that this might lead to some trouble. He asked if there had
been any consideration to the American idea of “ Cow and Calf ”
multi-units as a solution to this problem.
With the use of diesel electric motive power, he presumed that
there will be an amount of rail corrugation, as with electric tramways.
Mr. A. Hood (M.) stated that the Author had prepared a very
excellent paper from which might have been excluded to advantage
the innuendoes relating to builders‘ designs and specifications.
The oil versus coal controversy had been raging for some years
now and while costs of fuel in many countries were still in favour of
coal it was becoming more and more difficult for large industrial com-
panies in this country to continue to favour coal-burning locomotives
in view of the continuing rising cost of this precious fuel. I t was,
nevertheless, intriguing to know that the Author represented a firm
situated in the heart of the Welsh coal fields which had for obvious
reasons of high cost of coal to convert to the use of oil.
Mr. Hood, in moving a vote of thanks to the Author, congratulated
him both on the subject matter of the Paper and on the able manner
he had displayed in dealing with the discussion which had followed.
AUTHOR’S REPLY
In reply to MY.A . C. Smith the Author commented that some five
years ago at another steelworks he had seen a locomotive instruction
book which, if the engine builders’ recommendations had been followed:
that locomotive would have been taken off for heavy maintenance
every week. He stated that the instruction books for the American
locomotives were excellent and contained photographs and diagrams
galore. The writers of these books seemed to have thought of every
possible question that the user might ask. Another good point about
the American books was that despite the fact the locomotive was built
by one firm and the electrical equipment by another, each book was
complete in itself; in this country there was a tendency for a user of a
new locomotive to be presented with several books, one written by
each firm who has contributed towards the whole locomotive.
On the subject of oil firing it was pointed out that in industry there
is generally only one man on the footplate; any conventional form of
oil firing would almost certainly need a second man on the footplate
to look after it, since the driver by himself would not be able to give it
the attention necessary.
The Author agreed that the quantity of spares required for a diesel
locomotive was very large; he felt this to be a pity as ideally the user
should merely carry a few small spares of the kind that he frequently
needs and whenever he needs anything larger he ought to be able to
ring up the engine builder and have a spare despatched to him right
away. He understood that this practice existed in America and
presumably this was due to the fact that the Americans have built
large quantities of a very small number of different locomotive types.
From what he had heard, the after-service facilities offered by
American locomotive builders to users in their own country was
excellent.
Superheaters were deliberately not fitted as the advantage is
questionable for this type of work. There might be the odd trip at the
end of which the superheater would be functioning to advantage; in
the main, however, it was felt that for straight shunting no advantage
was to be gained and a certain amount of extra maintenance would be
unavoidable.
Wheel slip was not a serious problem with any of the diesel loco-
motives; obviously, slipping would occur where locomotives were
loaded up to their maximum, but in the main no serious trouble had
arisen,
With regard to the delivery period of the American locomotives,
they were actually ordered in late 1948 although discussion had been
going on with the builders intermittently since 1946. These locomo-
tives were delivered in March 1950, but they did not go into full service
for nearly 12 months after that date.
The question of multiple-unit locomotives had been considered
but had been abandoned on the ground that two small locomotives
cost considerably more than one large one; with the addition of
multiple-unit equipment this price differential would be increased.
He thought that the only time that multiple-unit would be advantag-
eous was where a plant was being operated with a large number of
small locomotives and where there were only one or two duties for
which a larger machine was required. In the case of the Port Talbot
plant the numbers of large and small locomotives were approximately
equal.
It is understood that the use of “ Apexior ” compound would be
of no advantage in this particular case to prevent corrosion, since the
“ Apexior ” lining would be itself broken down by impingement,
In reply to M Y . Clark the Author agreed that the problem of

keeping all customers satisfied was a very difficult one. From the
locomotive builders’ point of view, the ideal practice would be for
each builder to present his standard range of locomotives and flatly
refuse to depart from his standard except for very large orders; un-
fortunately, this practice is unlikely to be adopted as it only needs one
builder to agree to modify his standard for the whole idea to fall to
the ground. This system could only work if each and every manufac-
turer believed that his locomotives were absolutely perfect and simply
could not be improved in any way at all. The Author felt that even
now some slight tendency exists for the builder to offer the user a
locomotive that is not really what the user wants; he suggested that
even now builders might, with advantage to themselves, get very
useful design data indeed from the locomotive users. If an exhaustive
survey were made of the opinions of a large number of users, and then
all these opinions were put together in one locomotive (the contradic-
tions having been cancelied out ! ) then possibly a very fine locomotive
indeed might result.
He agreed with Mr. Clark that the rail track at Port Talbot was
excellent and also that the more generous loading gauge enabled them
to put a locomotive on the road that was a better job from the
operating point of view.
The figures produced by Mr. Clark on the subject of costs were
very interesting; his only criticism was that it rather looked as though
Mr. Clark was unkind to diesel-electric locomotives on the subject of
capital cost-it was thought that the difference between diesel-electric
and the other forms of diesel locomotives is not necessarily so large
as would appear from Mr. Clark’s figures. Other than this one
criticism, it would appear that Mr. Clark’s figures bore a fairly close
relationship to those presented in the Paper; it was useful to know that
a particular builder and a particular user were in fairly close agreement
on this subject.
In reply to M r . Kelby the Author slated that he was grateful to
him for underlining a peculiarity of locomotives operating on steel
works; certain production departments have to have locomotives tied
to them so that they may be instantly available when required. The
work factor of these locomotives may be fairly low, but the importance
of their instant availability to the production department transcends
anything else.
H e was most interested to hear that Mr. Kelby’s oil-burning loco-
motive was the best steam locomotive they had. No oil-burning had
ever been tried at Port Talbot; during the coal shortage of 1946147
conversion to oil-burning had been proposed but nothing had ever
come of it.
The diesel maintenance shed had been provided with four bays,
allocated roughly that at any time one locomotive would be undergoing
heavy repairs, two others light repairs and inspections, with a fourth
bay available for emergency repairs.
The basis of all inspections and maintenance was the fortnightly
inspection and no locomotive is put out from shed after inspection
without being made completely ready for use, i.e. fuelled and filled
with sand and cooling water. Locomotive cleaning is also done during
this inspection time. The driver is purely a driver, and apart from
checking certain details and lubricating parts on some locomotives,
has no maintenance responsibilities whatsoever; if he needs sand or
fuel during the working fortnight then he goes to the shed and gets it,
although consideration is being given to the possibility of taking fuel
to the locomotives by road tanker. The amount of sand required
depends largely upon the weather, and the amount of fuel upon the
loc3motive design. All locomotives can run for at least 10 days without
fuelling and many over a fortnight.
I n reply to Mr. H . Arbzclhnott, the Author stated that the American

locomotives were fitted with heaters of the same principle as the British
Clayton heaters i.e. a radiator heated by cooling water with an electric
fan behind it. The earlier British diesels were simply fitted with small
radiators in the cab which were found to be quite insuficient,
particularlyDownloaded
when fromit was considered that the British cab of that period
was still a rather rough and ready thing and a bit draughty at times.
The latest British locomotives are fitted with large Clayton heaters and
are entirely satisfactory. Some form of louvre shutters to the radiator
are desirable, to keep up the water temperature in very cold weather.
Only two of the diesel locomotives are fitted with dead man’s
pedals. This matter had been discussed when the first diesels were
ordered and it was considered that they were a waste of time for this
type of duty since invariably the dead man’s pedal will be found to
have been put out of action with a brick or a wooden wedge.
Regarding service facilities, the Author felt that the new diesel
maintenance shed is as good and probably better than anything else
existing in this Country. It was extremely interesting to note the
reaction of the maintenance staff after they had been in this new shed
for some months; the whole tempo of work had increased and so had
its quality. Three of the four locomotive bays are provided with three
working levels i.e. a platform at running board height, a low floor
level outside the rails at which a man could stand and work in comfort
on such details as axieboxes and brake gear, and the deep inspection
pit between the rails (Fig. 20). Excellent lighting is provided by means
of fluorescent tubes including very good pit lights. A six-ton over-
head crane is provided in the two centre bays. Ramps are provided
between different levels so that trolleys may be taken from one to
another; there is also a removable grating in the centre high platform
so that heavy parts may be brought up from down below by means of
the overhead crane.
Y
* I
-1
N O
.I
d
As far as spares are concerned, the Author felt that he had

covered his feelings in this matter in his reply to Mr. Smith. It is
unfortunately necessary that a user in this Country has to carry a
very large stock of spares indeed, representing a capital expenditure of
many thousands of pounds. Undesirable though this is, it appears
that under present conditions it is absolutely unavoidable. This will
include major items such as spare wheel-sets, traction motors and
other large and expensive parts. This has to be done, not because any
particular troubles are expected with traction motors, but because if
they did occur then the resultant delay would be so enormous that
it is essential to hold a spare in stock.
662 JOURNAL O F THE INSTITIJTION OF LOCOMOTIVE ENGINEERS
In reply to M Y . WeEborn the Author stated that the 660 h.p. loco-
motives were ordered because a certain duty actually required loco-
motives of this size and power. After these five locomotives had
been delivered it was considered that locomotives of 480 h.p. or
thereabouts would be entirely adequate for all remaining duties; it
is not true to say that the large machines are wasted and this is borne
out by the fact that the latest order for locomotives calls for further
locomotives of 660 h.p. I t is thought that the original English Electric
shunting locomotives were of 350 h.p.; experience has shown that
locomotives of this power could not perform a large number of duties
within the plant.
Maintenance intervals are based on hours in actual operation.
I n other words this is based on 24 hours per day minus an allowance
for shift change and meal breaks.
In reply to M r . H . Arbuthnott, the Author stated that apart from

the fortnightly visits to the shed for routine inspection and main-
tenance, the locomotive stayed out on the Yard. Breakdowns were
dealt with by first summoning a fitter to the scene, after using the
radio to report the breakdown; the fitter is provided with transport
and can qliickly get to a breakdowin and frequently deal with it on
the spot. Only in serious cases is it necessary for a locomotive to
have to be taken to shed.
In reply to M Y . Flemilag, the Author stated that a fortnightly
inspection was completed within one eight-hour shift.
In reply to iMr. Hart, the Author stated that where the number of
machines of a particular type justified it, a spare power unit would
be held. I n the Author’s opinion, a spare power unit becomes
justifiable where one has approximately seven or eight locomotives
of the same type.
In reply to M Y . Warren, the Author stated that the stripes were

of black and lemon yellow; this is a safety precaution for the
benefit of road users at level crossings.
If a large locomotive breaks down, and the stand-by locomotive
is a small one, some switching of locomotives between duties is
necessary. This does not cause any great difficulty in practice.
No trouble has been experienced with rail corrugation.
I n reply to M Y . A . Hood, the Author thanked him for his kind
remarks: the preparation of the Paper had been a considerable
pleasure and he was thankful and most grateful that it had been
s o well received.
H e notes that the word “innuendo” is defined as “an oblique hint
or insinuation.” He had hoped to be somewhat more than oblique!
He agreed that the high cost of coal had crippled the use of
steam locomotives and pointed out that even in the heart of the
Welsh coalfields they had to pay over ;E5 0s. Od. per ton for patent
fuel blocks Downloaded
for their locomotives.
LOCOhIOTIVES FOR HEAVY INDUSTRY 663
MEETING 1 N DERBY 11th jANUARY 1956

The Annual General Meeting of the Midlands Centre was held at
the Midland Hotel, Derby on 11th January 1956 at 7.0 p.m.,
the Chair being taken by Mr. W. H. Dyson Lowery.
The Minutes of the Meeting held on the 15th December 1955
were read, approved, and signed as correct.
After the business of the Annual General Meeting had been
concluded the Chairman introduced Mr. C. Wordsworth (Associate
Member) who read his Paper entitled Locomotives for Heavy
"
Industry. ' '

DISCUSSION
Mr. T. Baldwin (M.) said he was interested in the very high
axle loads mentioned. He thought 45 tons was the highest value.
Were any difficulties encountered through these high axle loads in
relation to the wheel diameters, because with normal wheel diameters
the Hertzian stresses at the point of contact between the wheel and
the rail must be very high? Were specially heavy section rails
required and were these heavy vehicles limited to certain portions
of the line?
In the problem of the cooling water system, could the Author
say if dissimilar materials were used in the cooling water circuit-
e.g., steel and brass or copper pipes and aluminium alloy pumps,
and so on?
Mr. Baldwin also asked how they got four years' continuous duty
from steam locomotives, because surely time was required for wash-
outs and brick arch repairs.
Mr. P. R. Armitage ( V . ) referred to the one-man operation of

locomotives in steelworks. The Author had mentioned earlier in the
Paper that many crossings existed on the system and it would be
interesting to know, in view of the previous point, why onc-man
operation had been adopted.
He asked what alarm systems had been provided on the diesel-
electric locomotives and what cab facilities were thought to be
necessary for locomotives designed for heavy industry.
As the axle loads on both wagons and locomotives were un-
commonly high for this country, he asked what re-railing equipment
was employed.
As the atmosphere encountered in a steelworks was, of necessity
dust laden, he asked what special filtration arrangements were made
as far as the electrical machinery was concerned.
As locomotives were no doubt stabled outside at night, was anti-
freeze used and did the Author think this had any bearing on the
engine trouble encountered?
Mr. W. G. F. Thorley (A.M.) asked what influenced the
decision to adopt purely diesel traction for the new works extension.
One of the major advantages of diesel-electric shunting locomotives
o n the main line railways was the fact that they were capable of
one-man operation. The driver was provided with a fireman only

when passing over the main line. It would thus seem that where
one-man operation was normal, one of the principal advantages of
diesel shunting locomotives had been lost.
The Author then mentioned that with the Bagnall steam loco-
motives (1948) which were very closely related in design to the
latest locomotive developments on British Railways at that time,
very high availability had been secured. Would he give figures of
availability? It was apparently too early to assess maintenance
costs between the two types, but it should be possible to measure
relative availability of the two types. When one heard of liner
trouble of the order mentioned by the Author which resulted in
locomotives being out of service for long periods, it would be very
interesting to know what was the relative availability of the two
types of locomotive, steam and diesel.
Mr. J. H. R. Nixon (V.) said it was extraordinarily interesting

to hear this Paper because he had happened to be in at some of the
discussions to which the Author had referred when his General
Manager had visited America when decisions were being made eight
or nine years ago, and it had been most illuminating to see and hear
practical confirmation of how those decisions had worked out in
practice.
If he understood Mr. Wordsworth correctly, he felt that those
decisions were right and had been amply justified by results.
One interesting point was that the Author, as a mechanical engineer,
had expressed himself in favour of electrical transmission. He had
found himself, as an electrical engineer, that some mechanical
engineers were not interested in electrical transmission because of the
so-called difficulty of electrical maintenance. That bogey had been
killed; electrical transmission was the least troublesome feature of a
locomotive. He knew of traction motors over 40 years old which were
still in service. He felt the Author had made a valuable point when
he brought out the reliability of the electrical equipment on this kind
of application.
As regards the very serious point of water corrosion in diesel
engines; there were many hundreds of similar locomotives in operation
on British Railways and thousands in operation throughout the world,
and there may have been odd cases of corrosion, but he did not
remember hearing of one so bad as that mentioned by the Author and
so marked to that extent. Was there some special feature in the local
water conditions of operation which could be responsible for this, and
why had not other people had similar experience ?
Mr. D. R. Carling M.A. (M.) said he had read and listened to

Mr. Wordsworth’s Paper with considerable interest. There were a
number of points which called for comment or question : -
From the transport point of view just how “ Heavy ” does
industry have to be to come within the scope of the Paper? It seemed
that there were two main things to consider, the first being whether
the natureDownloaded
of thefromwork did or
jil.sagepub.com did
at UNIV not call
CALIFORNIA for onalmost
SAN DIEGO February 27,continuous
2016 use
of the locomotives, and the second, what were the normal length and
duration of individual trips?
The point in the former case being that the need of a steam loco-
motive to take water and to take fuel more often than a diesel was a
serious handicap if this meant that it was not available when required,
but was no handicap at all if it could be done whilst the locomotive
was not required. In the latter case, it was the nominal power of the
locomotive that was involved since a steam locomotive had a very high
overload capacity for a few minutes and the diesel relatively little com-
pared to its continuous rating in each case.
This also brought in a point with regard to steam locomotives that
if the duty was nearly continuous or involved fairly long trips it should
be well worth while to fit a superheater and make a worth while
reduction in the fuel consumption without any serious increase in main-
tenance. Had the Author any views on this?
In some industries, especially those which involved little or no
shift working and which had either large boiler installations or an
adequate electricity supply, it might be worth while to consider other
types of locomotive than those dealt with by the Author. Fireless
steam locomotives could be built at relatively low cost and of adequate
power and quite considerable endurance, especially if a steam supply
was available at really high pressure. Locomotives of over 80 tons
adhesion weight and 47,000 lb. tractive effort had been built already.
Similarly, storage battery locomotives might well suit certain in-
dustrial needs where conditions were not such as to involve very severe
impacts. The batteries could be charged at night at cheap rates.
Even the " Electro-gyro " principle might prove useful for duty
requiring intermittent use at relatively short intervals of time.
It was noteworthy that the 4- and 6-wheeled locomotives shown
by the Author were all fitted with coupling rods, but the bogie 8-
wheeled diesels all had individual axle drive; possibly the latter were
so heavy that no trouble had been experienced with wheel slip, but
where such high axle loads were not acceptable it might be as well to
stick to coupling rods even if they did mean a bit more maintenance:
after all, the first requisite was to do the job reliably. If curvature
imposed the use of short rigid wheelbases coupling rods would still be
used on the bogies of either diesel or articulated steam locomotives.
He would most strongly support all the Author had said about
maintenance, but could the Author suggest any way of inducing any
user to provide facilities for maintaining steam locomotives in any way
comparable with those that they readily provide for diesels?
The time was bound to come when even a diesel locomotive would
be out of service for repair and sg, at least one locomotive more would
be needed than those actually required to provide the service. In a
large fleet this may be a small item, but in a small fleet it might well
greatly reduce the ability of each diesel to put in more hours work per
year than the equivalent steam locomotive. Each case required
judgment on its own merits.
Lastly, he thought the Author had been a little hard on the
manufacturers in suggesting that they should have fitted all sorts of
expensive modern improvements before any of their customers showed
666 JOURNAL OF T H E INSTITUTION OF LOCOMOTIVE E N G I N E E R S
any sign of being willing to pay for them. It was surely any manu-
facturer’s job to supply what his customers wanted and the
“ Standard ” product must be what most of them wanted, which,
hitherto, had mainly been the cheapest machine that would do the job.
Now the accent was more on the cost of operation and maintenance
and it was up to the manufacturers to fit whatever devices would help
in that way.
Mr. W. McLester ( V . ) said it was evident that a great deal of
thought had been given to the size of locomotive and improved
visibility from the driver’s cab, but little thought had been given to
the shunter who had numerous steps to negotiate and he asked the
Author for his comments.
Mr. D. Lord (V.) asked for the Author’s comments on the

relative merits of locomotives of bogie and rigid wheel-base
construction.
Mr. W. H. Dysora Lowery (A.M.) said he could remember fire-
less locomotives he had seen in use over 35 years ago. He always
understood that their use was to obviate sparks, smoke and dirt
generally, because these locomotives were in use where chemicals were
being manufactured and, of course, there was no dirt or smoke and
no danger of fire.
WRITTEN COMMUNICATION
Mr. A. C. D. ,Malcolm (A.M.) wrote that he had read the Paper
with interest, particularly as many of the locomotives mentioned were
built by M e s s . Bagnall, of Stafford, and he had had the pleasure of
seeing similar types in the course of being built in the works. One or
two points came to mind with regard to the selection of a diesel-electric
for the particular duty at the Steel Co. of South Wales. The Author
had mentioned that what was wanted was a really robust and reliable
locomotive, yet, the proneness of electrical systems to fail under con-
ditions of heavy atmospheric pollution in a steel works was not
considered worth mentioning. Again, the very real advantages to be
gained by having a totally enclosed hydraulic transmission were
glossed over on the grounds that “ it is too early to be able to draw
any firm comparison between shunting locomotives with electric and
hydraulic transmissions.” Would the Author say that twenty years
was time enough upon which to draw firm conclusions, since it was of
interest to note that Mr. Fett mentioned in his Paper* that one loco-
motive of 330 h.p. had run since 1936 without any replacement of
transmission parts, and doubtless there were other cases to be found
of the same order? Could the Author give a little more details of
the reason for not considering the advantages to be gained from the
use of hydraulic transmission and also state the average number of
breakdowns that have occurred with the diesel-electrics at Port Talbot
for each of the various classes over the period 1948-1955?
*Journal Inst. Loco. Engrs. Vol. 44 (1954) No. 241.
AUTHOR’S REPLY
In reply to Mr. Baldwin the Author said no trouble had been
experienced due to high axle loads. By main line standards the
trains travelled at very slow speed-the heavier the stock the slower
the speed. With 45-ton axle loads a speed of 10 m.p.h. was seldom
exceeded, and that only when taking a run to get up hill; on the
flat it was of the order of 7 to 8 m.p.h. Where any heavy wagons
ran, 109 lb. flat bottom rails were used, together with closer sleeper
spacing. Elsewhere on the plant, 95 lb. bull-head rails were used
in the normal way.
Regarding the question as to whether dissimilar materials, e.g.
steel and copper or brass pipes, etc. were used in the cooling water
circuit, it happened that the American locomotives had most of their
piping in steel. On the British locomotives there was some copper
piping.
Replying to Mr. Baldwin’s Last question; he had meant four
years continuous duty with only running shed attention and no heavy
repairs. Since the Paper had been written all steam locomotives
had been through the shops for tyre turning. Washouts took place
once a fortnight and by the normal steam shunting locomotives’
standard, maintenance was very light.
In reply to MY.Armitage, the Author said that he thought that

it was almost universal within the steel industry to have one-man
operation in the cab. The crew of a locomotive consisted of one
man actually on the locomotive and one or more shunters with him,
according to duties. The only exception was on the big American
locomotives where all the controls were grouped on one side only;
in that case it was necessary to have an observer on the other side
of the cab.
For warning signals, it was found that an ordinary Pneuphonic
horn facing each way was sufficient. Originally diesel locomotives
had only one horn, but were now being fitted fore and aft. They did
not use bells. All diesel locomotives were being vividly dazzle painted
and it was a definite rule understood in the works that the rail
traffic had priority over the road; outside road lighting was also of
a very high order.
Facilities in the cabs consisted only of cab heaters. There were
no hot plates; in the works there was an amenity block where the
crew ate.
For derailments there was a 45-ton breakdown crane. If a derail-
men! of the 180-ton wagon took place, each slag pot was first taken
off, then the wagon was lifted on the rails and the pots put back.
Air filtration for electrical machines was very important, par-
ticularly where dust concentration was high; oil-wetted filters were
used and found perfectly satisfactory.
Anti-freeze solution had only been used in the small 165 h.p.
mechanical locomotives and they had no corrosion. In the American
locomotives they had been told not to use anti-freeze. Since the
works had got into full production there was seldom any question
of locomotives standing idle other than at Shed when in for service.
In reply to M Y . T h o d e y , the Author said the decision to go to

purely diesel traction for the new works extension was largely due
to influence from the U.S.A. as at the end of the war their steelworks
were all turning over to diesels with apparently every satisfaction.
It was assumed without any doubt there would be economies to be
gained and since they had to buy a lot of locomotives it was con-
sidered wise to change over to diesels right at the start, a decision
which has never been regretted.
The economies to be gained by the use of diesel traction were
still substantial even where there was no reduction in manning to be
gained: it is thought that the figures quoted in the Paper were
evidence enough of this.
The trouble experienced with cylinder liner corrosion naturally
affected the availability figure considerably, once the full magnitude
of the trouble was fully appreciated. Up to the advent of this
difficulty, the relative availability of the two types was 88% for the
0-6-0 steam locomotive and 94% for the diesels; it is confidently
expected that this figure of 94% can be regained once the water
trouble is finally cured, there are strong indications that it is being
cured.
These two figures covered a period of about 3 years; the advan-
tage on the side of the diesels is largely due to the fact that the
fortnightly inspection can be done easily in one eight-hour shift,
whereas the fortnightly washout for the steam locomotives obviously
takes considerably longer than this.
In reply to Mr. Nixon, the Author stated that there was virtually
no alternative to electric transmission for the higher powers when
this matter was first being considered in 1946147; hydraulic trans-
mission was virtually unknown in this country at that time. Having
started with electric transmission, they had continued to specify it,
as they already possessed the trained staff and facilities for dealing
with it. There was every indication that the electric transmission
was thoroughly reliable.
Nevertheless, he did not wish to appear to be a protagonist of
electric transmission to the exclusion of all others, and for that reawn
he had expressed the hope that one day somebody would produce
a really realistic and un-biased comparison of electric and hydraulic
transmission.
Port Talbot water was very soft water, running straight off the
hiIls with very little treatment, and it was inclined to be slightly acid.
He thought it was very similar to that obtained in parts of Scotland.
He agreed there was no record of much trouble in this country, but
he thought when they started diesel traction in the States there were
some cases of serious trouble. They first developed the chromate
treatment and now there were more complex treatments, especially
in areas where the water was very bad.
Replying to Mr. Carling, the Author said that in specifying
“Heavy Industry” he was trying to make it clear that he was not
talking about conditions in small industrial plants, but was thinking
mainly of steelworks or the larger chemical works where one got a

number of locomotives working round the clock.
Replying to the question as to whether the nature of the work
called for continuous utilisation of the locomotives in the steel
industry, the Author said that certain locomotives were tied to
individual production processes and therefore there were periods when
these locomotives were standing idle. They were immediately avail-
able when the production department wanted them and it was,
therefore, worth while for that reason. The majority of locomotives
were in general link and they were used continuously.
The longest normal duty was about two miles, although longer
unscheduled trips might be made : this two-mile journey might take
about 30 minutes, since it passes along the main traffic artery of the
works.
Steam locomotives will be called upon to propel heavy trains up-
hill under conditions of full regulator working and practically full gear.
Such a trip would call for maximum effort for 4-5 minutes and makes
heavy inroads upon the boiler pressure and water level. Any extension
of the duration of such a trip would be impossible without reducing
the train load. A diesel locomotive has some considerable margin in
hand under the same conditions: the electrical machines will put up
with maximum load for considerably larger periods than those stated
and engine cooling is also no problem for this length of time: engine
cooling can, of course, be designed to suit almost any specified con-
ditions as desired.
Nothing had ever been done about superheating on the theory
that on an eight-hour shift of shunting the number of occasions, when
a superheater might be of any use would be once per shift for about
five minutes. It would involve a rather higher standard of driving
than they had. If, on the other hand, they had any longer trip work-
ing, it would be worth considering.
He could not comment much on fireless steam locomotives, but
agreed that for movements within a clearly defined area of small size
they could be useful, but from their own point of view they would be
useless.
Storage battery locomotives could come into the same category
although battery charging would presumably mean that these loco-
motives could only be used for one turn per day or so. The “Electro-
gyro” principle might weli have something to it.
On the big locomotives they tried to get so much weight on the
wheel to reduce slip to a minimum; they did not get much trouble
with slipping unless it was a heavy load and a drizzly day.
The Author could not suggest any way of inducing any user to
provide facilities for maintaining steam locomotives comparable with
those they readily provided for diesels, although he thought that a
financial case could frequently be made out for improved steam
facilities.
Regarding the speaker’s last point, the Author said the average
steam locomotive builder in his range of standard industrial locomotives
had been offering the same thing for 50 years and they said the
customers did not want anything else; but remember the customer was
not a locomotive engineer. He would have thought the attitude of

the manufacturer should be to produce a locomotive as modern as
possible to keep maintenance and operating costs down, and put a
“ sales talk ” across.
Industry was developing all the time, but steam locomotives had
not changed for 50 years. Now that diesels were here, the manufac-
turer should produce a standard range of designs as perfect as he could
make it and having done so, should put that to his customers as the
complete answer to all their problems. I n America they built a
standard range of locomotives and they would not alter them unless
the order was for a very large number.
In reply to MY. McLester, the Author said the shunters did not
mind the steps. There were six steps on the American locomotives
into the cab and they were easy to climb as they were not vertical.
The bottom steps were made amply big, enabling the shunter to ride
on them; there had been no complaints.
In reply to M r . Lord, the Author said that they were now firmly
of the opinion that any locomotive too big to run on four wheels should
be put on bogies. Under industrial conditions a bogie locomotive will
show great economies in tyre wear when compared with an ordinary
six-wheel design. Although a bogie locomotive will be more expensive,
the extra cost will be soon recovered on lower maintenance costs;
further, a simple and cheap bogie construction will suffice for industrial
work.
In reply to Mr. Lowery, the Author stated that flame-proofed

diesel locomotives can be used in dangerous areas.
I n reply to Mr. Malcolm’s written communication, the Author

would state that Mr. Malcolm’s experience of industrial electric traction
must be unfortunate. No trouble has been experinced at Port Talbot
with electrical failure due to dirt. Proper filters and a good standard
of maintenance cleanliness will overcome this problem.
With regard to hydraulic transmission, the Author had tried to
make it clear in the Paper and in subsequent discussion that he was
not excessively biased in favour of electric transmission, even though
this was extensively used at Port Talbot: electric transmission was
selected in 1947 as no other transmission for the power required was
available.
The Author would say that the performance of one locomotive,
used in a railway shunting yard, was no criterion of hydraulic trans-
mission as a general principle particularly under industrial conditions.
Examination of the records, in a few years’ time, of hydraulic indus-
trial locomotives now in service will provide much better data for
comparative purposes: it might very well show that hydraulic
transmission is superior.
Electric traction was chosen originally as the only available
solution and having set up the organisation to deal with it, it seemed
fairly logical to continue with it.
Details of breakdowns on electrical components are as follows:

these are breakdowns including a stop of an 8-hour shift or more:-
Total hours run by diesel
electric ,locomotives up to
22nd February, 1956. 321,239
No. of breakdowns:-
Traction motors 4
Generators 7
Blower motors 6
Control Gear 18
-
35
-
Locomotive-hours per breakdown 9,178
There have been no cases of major electrical failure, such as

burnt-out motors or generators, etc.
MEETING IN DARLINGTON 19th JANUARY 1956

The Fourth Ordinary General Meeting of the Newcastle-on-Tyne
Centre was held at the Imperial Hotel, Darlington, on 19th January
1956, at 6.0 p m . , the Chair being taken by Mr. F. Johnson.
The Minutes of the Meeting held on 30th November 1955, were
read, approved, and signed as correct.
Member) who read his Paper entitled " Locomotives for Heavy
Industry. "
This, was followed by a discussion.
DISCUSSION
Mr. R. W. Taylor (M.) asked whether, apart from corrosion
troubles with the liners, any other major difficulties had been experi-
enced with the diesel engines. Would the Author say whether the
British-built bogie locomotives had given similar service so far as tyre
wear was concerned as the American locomotives, or was the difference
attributed to different qualities of tyre steels?
He said that he had experience of alloy circulating pump castings
corroding internally in a similar manner to the liners mentioned by
the Author, the water in this case being treated.
Mr. H. F. Jarvis ( M . ) said with regard to the problem of

corrosion of liners; that he presumed the Author had investigated
the possibilities of galvanic and electrolytic action between dissimilar
metals in warm or hot water. Had the Author tried the introduction
of a magnesium anode in the cooling water system to offset any
electrical currents which might be set up, either due to the galvanic,
electrolytic or any stray currents through the diesel set itself?
672 JOURNAL OF THE INSTITUTION O F LOCOMOTIVE ENGINEERS
Mr. E. D. Smith (A.M.) asked if anti-freeze had been used in

t h e water as its use might have a bearing on the trouble with the
liners by removing protective scale.
AUTHOR’S REPLY
I n reply to M r . Taylor the Author said that apart from their
water troubles they had experienced no serious engine trouble. The
American engines were excellent and although now being given
their first major overhaul their crankshafts were in excellent shape
with very little wear. British engines were all right but seemed
to suffer from wretched little leaks every now and again from oil
and water lines: not serious faults, these, but they could be a
nuisance.
The British bogie locomotives had not been in service long
enough for much information about tyre wear to be gained. The
American locomotives had one piece rolled wheels with quality
approximately equivalent to our Class “ E,” whereas the British
tyres were Class D.”
I ‘
With regard to water corrosion; the Author did not think the
question of dissimilar metals came into it. H e said it was interesting
t o note that this corrosion had only taken place on diesel-electric
locomotives and not on mechanical locomotives, but they were getting
o n top of this trouble now and all water was fully treated.
The Author said that MY. Jarvis’s point had been considered but
they had not actually done it yet. Their first reaction had been
the obvious one which was to put something on the liners themselves
and treat the water, which seemed to be having some effect. They
were about to experiment with cathodic protection as the second
stage.
In reply to M y . Svnith the Author said that the only locomotives

a n which they had used anti-freeze were the small mechanical loco-
motives with which they had not had any trouble.

Locomotives For Heavy Industry-C. Wordsworth-1955

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LOCOMOTIVES FOR HEAVY INDUSTRY 609

A Paper entitled “Locomotives for Heavy Industry” was

B y C . W O R D S II’OIITH (rlssociate illettiber)

Paper presented before the InstiBtion in London on 14th December

PAPER No. 551

In March 1947, a very comprehensive report was prepared by

2. THE PHYSICAL BACKGROUND

Hot metal is conveyed from the Blast Furnaces to the Melting

3. THE NATURE OF THE PROBLEM

cost of overhead structures, related to the quantity of traffic handled,

4. GENERAL REQUIREMENTS OF ANY LOCOMOTIVE

examples of modern methods and materials, which although

5. THE CONVENTIONAL STEAM LOCOMOTIVE

sort were incorporated in them. Nany of these locomotives are still

44 tons, as shown in Fig. 8 . Unfortunately the 0-4-0 wheel arrange-

an overall length of nearly 28 ft. they tend to pitch badly on anything

formity with normal ideas and no special features were included in

These figures in themselves will appear in no way very different

On one of the small 14 in. x 22 in. locomotives, which are fitted

Committee on Air Polution. This committee, in its report, made

7. THE DIESEL LOCOMOTIVE

( b ) Diesel Electric Transmission

giving every satisfaction to their users. Nevertheless, it is the Author’s

ture on steam locomotives can therefore be saved at the expense of

( a ) Complete elimination of all steam locomotive maintenance

sodium chromate, which has the effect of providing a protective film

has been experienced anywhere else in this country. It is most

11. NEW LOCONMOTIVES

had improved enormously in the last four or five years. Accordingly,

Further works developments have taken place since these loco-

extravagant but one duty to be performed is to propel a train of five

months to a year, a manufacturer tends to lose all interest. However,

The Author, in limiting the Paper to his own experience, had

Col. W. L. Topham, O.B.E. (M.) said that the Steel Company

regulator, perhaps an apparatus combining blower, atomiser, firing

Mr. M. W. T. Rees (V.) said with regard to the choice of different

water might cause considerable corrosion. The taking care of shaft

He would like to know the Author's views on the idling con-

Mr. T. A. Crowe (M.) said that he had been very interested

engines and a soluble oil called Dromus ID’, marketed by the

Mr. G. Cormn (M.) noted that the Author recommended

Mr. L. B. Norrish (M.) noted that under the heading “The

not refer to the Steel Company of Wales, who quite obviously

braking. When bringing a heavy train downhill on a wet day,

that one could get with a steam locomotive an availability equal

anything could be done to sharply reduce the frequency of the

iWv. Crowe had made the extremely interesting point that

MEETING IN LEEDS 20th DECEMBER 1955

in subsequent designs? The locomotive shown in Fig. 19 is rather

Mr. J. N. Compton, O.B.E. (M.) said that the duty which

Mr. H. Pybus (M.) said that on the diesel-electric locomotives,

Mr. A, R. Ewer ( M ) , in thanking the Author for his very valu-

Mr. A. Wood (A.M.), in referring to the large fleet of diesel

Yr. S. B. Stainsby (A.M.) expressed surprise that the diesel

MY.Compton. Any steelworks will try to keep the area covered

MY. W o o d . At present all diesel locomotives are refuelled at the

than that done at the shed during regular maintenance inspections,

M r . Stainsby. The two drawbacks to the diesel-mechanical loco-

MEETING IN GLASGOW 21st DECEMBER 1955

Mr. E. F. Clark (G.) said with regaicl to the manufacturers

Mr. J. A. Kelby (V.) stated that a user of Industrial Locomotives

Mr. H. Arbuthnott (V.) asked about heaters, particularly on